from:"steve.sundur"

Barry, there's only one conclusion to come to, He LIED.  MMY LIED, when he made 
these statements. 

 Does that make you feel better, does it give you closure, or a trophy of some 
sort.
 

 Now, most people I know would say, he EXAGGERATED, he engaged in HYPERPOLE, he 
is laying out a grand vision of possibilities, and discount it appropriately.  
But if you feel it is a gotcha of the highest order, then great.
 

 And I guess every the same holds true for every man who told a woman he was 
romancing, that, the stars shine brighter when I'm with you
 

 I guess that's a lie too, and she should hold him to it.
 

 Just sayin'
 
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 BTW, for Steve:

 From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 
 
 I think Ann made a good point, that there seems to be a misconception of the 
part of Michael, at least, that the ME is capable of having such a transforming 
effect on the environment that conflicts will become non existent.  It is in 
areas like this where I think he sometimes has a problem separating fantasy 
from reality, hence my comment along those lines. 

 










I find myself wondering whether you (and Ann, since this dumb idea seems to 
have come from her) missed all those Maharishi lectures in which he said *very 
explicitly* that TM and ME would have such an effect on the environment that if 
enough people did them conflicts would become impossible. That was the whole 
*basis* of his Age Of Enlightement and Dawning of Sat Yuga talks. Duh.

Maharishi and the TMO *did* claim -- in many, many talks and press releases and 
sales spiels pitching Invincibility -- that sufficient numbers of TM/ME 
practitioners would generate such a field of positivity and invincibility 
around them that no crime would be *possible* within it. So what happened *on 
the campus of MUM* -- well within the boundaries of this of this all-powerful 
field of Woo, and with surely sufficient numbers given the percentage of 
students, teachers, people on courses, and others on campus practicing both TM 
and the ME -- that made Maharishi's predictions and proclamations go blooey, 
and ended in a murder?

Seems to me you can't have it both ways. To claim publicly that the ME *will* 
solve all problems by creating a field of Woo...uh...I mean coherence...so 
powerful that crime cannot exist, and then to say, Oooopsie...we didn't really 
mean *all* crime when we said 'all crime'  Sounds to me as if someone was 
practicing the fingers crossed mudra. :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

Have a little more time now.  

 I am sure you have observed that Michael is pretty quick to pull the cult 
apologist trigger pretty much as soon as someone takes issue with something he 
says.  That tactic of shooting the message is employed by many on both sides 
here.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 For the record, Steve, I have no interest in bringing down the TM 
organization, for the simple reason that it doesn't need my help. It seems 
intent on bringing itself down. I need only watch, and comment from the 
sidelines from time to time in a fashion that brings out the long-established 
cult tendencies of those who are watching their world -- and their belief 
system -- crumble about them.
 

 For example, as I pointed out yesterday, in all of this kerfuffle about 
Shuvender Sem's book, did *anyone* who still seems to feel an allegiance to the 
TMO deal with the *real* question raised by his actions in murdering someone 
right at Ground Zero of the supposed Maharishi Effect? Did *anyone* try to 
explain that, and make a case for the ME anyway? They did not. Instead they 
badrapped the people bringing the subject up again. I would suggest that the 
*intent* of this tactic is to try to *silence* those bringing up subjects that 
to *them* are uncomfortable, because they challenge the very things they 
believe in. I honestly don't think that some of these people are even 
consciously aware that that's what they're doing -- they just do it out of rote 
habit, because that's how they've seen everyone else in the TMO deal with 
criticism for so long and because they themselves have been doing it for so 
long. 

 

 At the same time, and something you might want to look out for, too, another 
common tactic when dealing with a critic who has a history of bringing up these 
uncomfortable topics is to challenge their motivations for doing so, 
implying that there is something WRONG with them for doing it. This is Ann's 
primary tactic, and seemingly one of yours as well. I'm not trying to convince 
you to stop doing it, because on one level I think you (not Ann) are actually 
concerned that Michael is overfocusing on this pissant meditation organization 
that's going to fold in a few years anyway, and are trying to steer him towards 
more balance. But I am trying to clue you in to the fact that this is another 
well-known and well-studied cult tactic as well, and a hidden attempt to 
silence the critic or shoot the messenger. After all, if you can convince 
people that this person is unbalanced, then people are going to stop 
listening to the things they say, and treat them as less credibile. And, of 
course, you don't have to deal with the criticisms themselves. It's a 
copout...a form of taking the low road.

 

 Wouldn't it be a little more impressive if all these people who still feel 
strongly about the TMO and still seem to believe that the ME is -- or even may 
be -- a real phenomenon spent a little time making a case for either, rather 
than trying to either demonize the critics or portray them as crazy? Wouldn't 
that display a little more...dare I say it?...creative intelligence? Just 
sayin'...
 

 From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 3:54 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 
 
   Well, let's look at it this way.  Barry is on record that part of his 
interest here is to examine the mindset of true believers, or those he believes 
to be such.  I can understand that.  
 But it also works both ways.  I find it interesting to examine what drives 
some of the detractors.  And it helps me understand myself better.  
 

 I try to figure out what would make a person invest so much time and attention 
in trying to bring down an organization.  I mean there are many places to 
invest one's attention.  Why so much in this endeavor?
 

 What makes a person not move on?  
 

 There are things I would have done differently in life, but I've always 
understood, that I need to keep going forward. As trite as it sounds, it is 
spiritual understanding that motivates me. You get a little, and then you want 
more.
 

 So, it just strikes me as odd to see someone so preoccupied with past events. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Ah, thanks for clarifying. Thanks also for reaching out with your TM enhanced 
awareness and assessing my state of emotional development. It is true that I 
was emotionally arrested at age 10, but just 2 weeks of TM allowed me to catch 
up and I actually got enlightened after 6 months of TM. I am here on FFL 
because Cosmic Intelligence wants me to challenge you and Buck and a few others 
to test your enlightenment and hep you along the path. 
 
 As to MUM, here is a grand assessment from a student from a school review web 
site:
 
 The school is particularly scared of being sued, which is due in large part to 
a murder that occured

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

You know Michael, something like quantum mechanics isn't particularly logical 
or at least turns the logic we are accustomed to, on it's head. 

 So, please excuse me, it I don't buy into your certaintude of the ME, because 
on the surface it doesn't appear to be working.  
 

 I've no idea if it produces any effect or not, but I'm not inclined to take 
your opinion as the final word on the matter.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 you don't have an answer for it because it just doesn't exist. It is a matter 
of plain common sense. If the Marshy Effect exists it is logical to expect the 
effect would be strongest at its epicenter. Doesn't exist, period. 
 
 On Wed, 4/9/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 12:22 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
turquoiseb@...
 wrote :
 
 For the record, Steve, I have no interest in
 bringing down the TM organization, for the
 simple reason that it doesn't need my help. It seems
 intent on bringing itself down. I need only watch, and
 comment from the sidelines from time to time in a fashion
 that brings out the long-established cult tendencies of
 those who are watching their world -- and their belief
 system -- crumble about
 them.
 yes, that is my understanding.  it appears to
 me you have a pretty active life apart from anything going
 on here or with the
 TMO.
 For example, as I pointed out yesterday, in all
 of this kerfuffle about Shuvender Sem's book, did
 *anyone* who still seems to feel an allegiance to the TMO
 deal with the *real* question raised by his actions in
 murdering someone right at Ground Zero of the
 supposed Maharishi Effect? Did *anyone* try to
 explain that, and make a case for the ME anyway? They did
 not. Instead they badrapped the people bringing the subject
 up again. I would suggest that the *intent* of this tactic
 is to try to *silence* those bringing up subjects that to
 *them* are uncomfortable, because they challenge the very
 things they believe in. I honestly don't think that some
 of these people are even consciously aware that that's
 what they're doing -- they just do
 it out of rote habit, because that's how they've
 seen everyone else in the TMO deal with criticism for so
 long and because they themselves have been doing it for so
 long. 
 
 At the same time, and something you might want
 to look out for, too, another common tactic when dealing
 with a critic who has a history of bringing up these
 uncomfortable topics is to challenge their
 motivations for doing so,
 implying that there is something WRONG with them for doing
 it. This is Ann's primary tactic, and seemingly one of
 yours as well. I'm not trying to convince you to stop
 doing it, because on one level I think you (not Ann) are
 actually concerned that Michael is overfocusing on this
 pissant meditation organization that's going to fold in
 a few years anyway, and are trying to steer him towards more
 balance. But I am trying to clue you in to the fact that
 this is another well-known and well-studied cult tactic as
 well, and a hidden attempt to silence the critic
 or shoot the messenger. After all, if you can
 convince people that this person is unbalanced,
 then people are going to stop listening to the things they
 say, and treat them as less credibile. And, of course, you
 don't have to deal with the criticisms themselves.
 It's a copout...a form of taking the low
 road.
 
 I understand what you are saying here.  I think
 Michael has been a pretty on target critic of the
 organization in many ways.  But there are also times
 when I think his portrayals are so one sided and
  skewed that I feel motivated to challenge
 them.
 I also think he
 plays that same card frequently of labeling and
 shooting the messenger when the facts go against
 the case he may be making on any given
 issue.
 Wouldn't it be a little more impressive if
 all these people who still feel strongly about the TMO and
 still seem to believe that the ME is -- or even may be -- a
 real phenomenon spent a little time making a case for
 either, rather than trying to either demonize the critics or
 portray them as crazy? Wouldn't that display a little
 more...dare I say it?...creative intelligence? Just
 sayin'...
 That seems to be the strongest point that you, and
 Michael focus on, i.e. the ME and why it doesn't it seem
 to have an impact in the immediate area of FF.  I
 don't have an answer for
 it.
 I think Ann made a good point, that there seems to
 be a misconception of the part of Michael, at least, that
 the ME is capable of having such a transforming effect on
 the environment that conflicts

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

You make the point well, Ann. 

 I don't know many who took these claims at face value, and thereby set 
themselves up for disillusionment. 

 

 Most put them in the context of a vision of possibilities and discounted 
accordingly.
 

 And it seems strange to make the case that since, we didn't eliminate the ago 
old problems of mankind in this generation  the whole program was a fraud.
 

 I poured my heart and soul into achieving those goals.  And at some point I 
too became a little disillusioned, but I never felt anyone owed me anything in 
this spiritual game.  
 

 Let a man raise himself, by himself.  Let him not destroy himself. He alone 
is his own friend.  He alone, his own destroyer  From the Bhagavad Gita.  
Maybe that is what helped me.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 BTW, for Steve:

 From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 
 
 I think Ann made a good point, that there seems to be a misconception of the 
part of Michael, at least, that the ME is capable of having such a transforming 
effect on the environment that conflicts will become non existent.  It is in 
areas like this where I think he sometimes has a problem separating fantasy 
from reality, hence my comment along those lines.
 

 What I was actually saying was that anyone with a bit of balance and sense 
would realize that what MMY claimed would happen based on the existence of this 
supposed ME is not likely to be possible. It is the old adage: If it sounds too 
good to be true... . So untwist your knickers and fingers (Bawwy). My point was 
simply don't believe everything you hear and if you did believe it all lock, 
stock and barrel, then you only have your own gullibility to blame and the 
common aftermath of bitterness and blame toward those who misled you. Steve, 
you are not bitter and angry about your time in the Movement so this indicates 
to me that perhaps you either didn't believe it all at face value or you simply 
can let go easier than others.
 

 









I find myself wondering whether you (and Ann, since this dumb idea seems to 
have come from her) missed all those Maharishi lectures in which he said *very 
explicitly* that TM and ME would have such an effect on the environment that if 
enough people did them conflicts would become impossible. That was the whole 
*basis* of his Age Of Enlightement and Dawning of Sat Yuga talks. Duh.

Maharishi and the TMO *did* claim -- in many, many talks and press releases and 
sales spiels pitching Invincibility -- that sufficient numbers of TM/ME 
practitioners would generate such a field of positivity and invincibility 
around them that no crime would be *possible* within it. So what happened *on 
the campus of MUM* -- well within the boundaries of this of this all-powerful 
field of Woo, and with surely sufficient numbers given the percentage of 
students, teachers, people on courses, and others on campus practicing both TM 
and the ME -- that made Maharishi's predictions and proclamations go blooey, 
and ended in a murder?

Seems to me you can't have it both ways. To claim publicly that the ME *will* 
solve all problems by creating a field of Woo...uh...I mean coherence...so 
powerful that crime cannot exist, and then to say, Oooopsie...we didn't really 
mean *all* crime when we said 'all crime'  Sounds to me as if someone was 
practicing the fingers crossed mudra. :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM REview

Michael, you are sort of a lucky fella in one regard.  It doesn't take much to 
make you happy!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I loved this review so much I just had to post it - I hope I get to meet the 
poster one day so I can shake their hand.
 
 Been here for 60 days came from India. They cashed my check and for now I am 
stuck here. Hope to get out soon and go home. Wanted to come to America to meet 
Americans. But here you only see people who talk about maharishi like he’s some 
kind of god. That guy did some real mind games on these folks. I just nod my 
head pretending I like what they say because that keeps them happy and besides 
sense they already cashed my check nothing I can do right now. Writing this 
while everyone is meditating…for the 4th time today. Every day its “have you 
meditated?”; “how was your mediation?”;”when are you going to mediate again?”, 
“hey, we’re going to go meditate, want to come”. “No thank you, but a flight 
back to India/anywhere would be nice”. I got to get out and start a life. This 
place makes the tiny village I came from seem like a meeting of the Algonquin 
round table.
 
 Someone just knocked on my door to ask me to type quieter so I don’t disturbed 
their meditation. I need a baseball bat.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
 
I'm not sure that Richard is so concerned about being taken seriously a lot of 
the time. Sometimes, but not as often as some other people who want to be taken 
seriously ALL the time. Go figure!
 

 That's excellent Share!  Once again, you've uncovered the subtle truth about 
things.
 

 I also have grown to enjoy Richard's posts.  
 

 On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

You don't have to defend him Share, he can do that if he likes. If he wants to 
carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. What he 
gets out of it is beyond me.  

 Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he 
wants to be taken seriously. But like most people here he's old enough to have 
decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as 
Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess 
it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff.

 

 On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's 
about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I 
should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much 
this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for 
decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?!
 

 On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

 LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe 
deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he 
himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? 

 

 

 I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything 
from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? 

 Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and 
never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know 
that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, 
but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd 
want to go along and argue the toss about nothing.
 

 But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life 
so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

 What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a 
trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I 
just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. 
 Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the 
dance party? Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

I hadn't really considered that possibility.  He did follow in the footsteps of 
other Indian Gurus who came to America with a similar message of making the 
world a better place.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Or, even more simply, he believed what he said when he said it. 

 

 

 Barry, there's only one conclusion to come to, He LIED.  MMY LIED, when he 
made these statements. 

 Does that make you feel better, does it give you closure, or a trophy of some 
sort.
 

 Now, most people I know would say, he EXAGGERATED, he engaged in HYPERPOLE, he 
is laying out a grand vision of possibilities, and discount it appropriately.  
But if you feel it is a gotcha of the highest order, then great.
 

 And I guess every the same holds true for every man who told a woman he was 
romancing, that, the stars shine brighter when I'm with you
 

 I guess that's a lie too, and she should hold him to it.
 

 Just sayin'
 
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 BTW, for Steve:

 From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 
 
 I think Ann made a good point, that there seems to be a misconception of the 
part of Michael, at least, that the ME is capable of having such a transforming 
effect on the environment that conflicts will become non existent.  It is in 
areas like this where I think he sometimes has a problem separating fantasy 
from reality, hence my comment along those lines. 

 










I find myself wondering whether you (and Ann, since this dumb idea seems to 
have come from her) missed all those Maharishi lectures in which he said *very 
explicitly* that TM and ME would have such an effect on the environment that if 
enough people did them conflicts would become impossible. That was the whole 
*basis* of his Age Of Enlightement and Dawning of Sat Yuga talks. Duh.

Maharishi and the TMO *did* claim -- in many, many talks and press releases and 
sales spiels pitching Invincibility -- that sufficient numbers of TM/ME 
practitioners would generate such a field of positivity and invincibility 
around them that no crime would be *possible* within it. So what happened *on 
the campus of MUM* -- well within the boundaries of this of this all-powerful 
field of Woo, and with surely sufficient numbers given the percentage of 
students, teachers, people on courses, and others on campus practicing both TM 
and the ME -- that made Maharishi's predictions and proclamations go blooey, 
and ended in a murder?

Seems to me you can't have it both ways. To claim publicly that the ME *will* 
solve all problems by creating a field of Woo...uh...I mean coherence...so 
powerful that crime cannot exist, and then to say, Oooopsie...we didn't really 
mean *all* crime when we said 'all crime'  Sounds to me as if someone was 
practicing the fingers crossed mudra. :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer

Why thank you Judy.  Yes, many of Share's posts do give me a measure of 
happiness.  The one below I thought was right on target.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Speaking of it not taking much to make you happy... 

 Watching you pander to Share is almost as stupefying as watching her pander to 
Richard or Barry.
 

 

 

 I'm not sure that Richard is so concerned about being taken seriously a lot of 
the time. Sometimes, but not as often as some other people who want to be taken 
seriously ALL the time. Go figure! 

 That's excellent Share!  Once again, you've uncovered the subtle truth about 
things.
 

 I also have grown to enjoy Richard's posts.  
 

 On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

You don't have to defend him Share, he can do that if he likes. If he wants to 
carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. What he 
gets out of it is beyond me.  

 Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he 
wants to be taken seriously. But like most people here he's old enough to have 
decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as 
Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess 
it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff.

 

 On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's 
about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I 
should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much 
this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for 
decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?!
 

 On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

 LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe 
deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he 
himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? 

 

 

 I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything 
from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? 

 Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and 
never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know 
that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, 
but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd 
want to go along and argue the toss about nothing.
 

 But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life 
so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

 What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a 
trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I 
just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. 
 Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the 
dance party? Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer

Hey Richard, I like the pictures you've posted of yourself.  My favorite was 
the one from when you worked as a reporter, (if I have that right)
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 4/9/2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 wrote:

 Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he 
wants to be taken seriously. 
 So, why would I want to be taking you seriously - you're just another 
anonymous poster. But, your contributions should be able to stand on their own 
without any comment from me, pro or con. So, far you've been an interesting 
read, but I'm not sure why you're not interested in discussing spiritual paths, 
music, or any of the other 10,000 topics I've posted to FFL. Go figure.
 
 But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he 
wants to present to the world. Go figure. 
 Well, I always put my best face forward - but you didn't post a photo of your 
face. LoL!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

Well, I would say you may still be a little wet behind the ears.  I think many 
have taken this route.   

 A friend of mine who was an active teacher back in the day, and lived in FF 
for a spell, is now priest in an archdiocese in Iowa somewhere, IIRC, and he 
tells a similar store as Kai Druhl, and his objections run along the same lines.
 

 I think you have a tendency to take at face value every claim MMY or the TMO 
has made, and then when they don't pan out you start pounding.  I think others 
were able to figure in a discount for the vision of possibilities and go from 
there.
 

 Yes, some of things that have come to light in the intervening years have 
caused me some cognitive dissonance, and forced me to look at things 
differently, but I know what I have taken away from the experience overall, and 
that has allowed me to overcome some of the dysfunctional parts of it all.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

Michael, 

 I'd say you've got your work cut out for you.  
 

 Tackle them one at a time.
 

 I can't think of a better use of your time.
 

 Maybe you can get a specially outfitted van.
 

 Michael's Traveling antiTM Van.  Driving Home the Truth about TM Across 
America, or something along these lines.
 

 What do you think?
 

 Oh, and by the way, the professors I encountered during my days at MIU seemed 
a little more circumspect with the discipline/SCI connections.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Oh I know it happens but and I admit my experience doesn't cover ALL people in 
the world, but when I was at MIU the faculty members I encountered seemed to be 
a bit more of the True Believers than most of the staff and students, of course 
that could be because they were required as part of their jobs to really put 
forth the TM party line on any question or situation that arose. 
 
 I just hope that one day some enterprising individual will hire a group to 
analyze the entire scientific body of research on TM and TMSP, prove 
scientifically and statistically that it is NOT scientifically valid, that the 
appropriate authorities will look into the pundit program, see that MUM/GCWP is 
in violation of federal statues, shut down the pundit cash cow program, heavily 
fine the Movement, find the accreditation of MUM is undeserved and revoke it, 
Girish will then sell the place and all this after Hagelin and Moriss have had 
to own up to their womanizing in court, MUM will fire both of them, they will 
then turn on the Movement and tell all the dirty secrets to save their necks 
which will be the testimony that leads to the revoking of the accreditation.
 
 Also, a serious study will be undertaken to see how many TM'ers develop mental 
problems after long use of TM, the number of suicides and attempted suicides 
will be studied, and after all this is published, the TMO will be unable to 
claim any scientific validity to anything it does and is reduced to saying We 
think you should do it cause we need your money and we think its a good thing 
to do.
 
 Happy Tuesday!
 
 On Tue, 4/8/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 12:50 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Well, I would
 say you may still be a little wet behind the ears.  I
 think many have taken this route.  
 A
 friend of mine who was an active teacher back in the day,
 and lived in FF for a spell, is now priest in an archdiocese
 in Iowa somewhere, IIRC, and he tells a similar store as Kai
 Druhl, and his objections run along the same
 lines.
 I
 think you have a tendency to take at face value every claim
 MMY or the TMO has made, and then when they don't pan
 out you start pounding.  I think others were able to
 figure in a discount for the vision of
 possibilities and go from
 there.
 Yes,
 some of things that have come to light in the intervening
 years have caused me some cognitive dissonance, and forced
 me to look at things differently, but I know what I have
 taken away from the experience overall, and that has allowed
 me to overcome some of the dysfunctional parts of it
 all.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

I'll probably get flak for saying this, but it almost sounds like Michael's 
emotional development got arrested at around age nine or ten.  Maybe when a 
child begins to separate reality from fantasy. 

 I never swallowed whole on all the claims made or implied by MMY.  I mean, a 
teacher lays out a vision, or a path, and everyone's experience is going to be 
different.
 

 If there is anyone who places MMY on a pedestal, a likely candidate would be 
Michael, who seems to feel betrayed because the organization or the technique 
isn't producing an ideal citizen in everyone touched by it.  
 

 Okay, so the ME effect seems to have some flaws.  I don't know the mechanics 
of how a large group of people practicing TM or the TMSP might affect the 
environment, or if it affects the environment at all. I don't know if yagyas 
are totally bogus or legitimate, or maybe somewhere in between.
 

 Yea, like most, I'd like to see some vetted scientific research.  I'm one who 
believes that there should be some physiological correlates in those who are 
said to have a higher state of consciousness.
 

 After all, Yogananda, IIRC, made some claims, which were borne out, such as 
the lack, or very slow decay, of his body after death.  I think he also 
demonstrated going into a state of samadhi, with no detectable breath for 
significant period of time.
 

 I would say events such as those bear further investigation.
 

 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, your last two paragraphs make a lot of sense to me based on my own 
experience. I think in general it's wise to take what's good about someone or 
something and leave the rest. UNLESS there's violence happening in which case I 
think it's essential to do what one can to prevent it, even if that's only 
speaking out about it.  
 

 On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 7:50 AM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
   Well, I would say you may still be a little wet behind the ears.  I think 
many have taken this route.  
 

 A friend of mine who was an active teacher back in the day, and lived in FF 
for a spell, is now priest in an archdiocese in Iowa somewhere, IIRC, and he 
tells a similar store as Kai Druhl, and his objections run along the same lines.
 

 I think you have a tendency to take at face value every claim MMY or the TMO 
has made, and then when they don't pan out you start pounding.  I think others 
were able to figure in a discount for the vision of possibilities and go from 
there.
 

 Yes, some of things that have come to light in the intervening years have 
caused me some cognitive dissonance, and forced me to look at things 
differently, but I know what I have taken away from the experience overall, and 
that has allowed me to overcome some of the dysfunctional parts of it all.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

what I mean is, that I don't recall many outlandish connections between the 
discipline being studied and the Science of Creative Intelligence. 

 Some of the disciplines lent themselves to a better comparison, such as 
physics and mathematics, and maybe chemistry, and some did not.
 

 But during the time I was there in the late 70's the campus was brimming with 
students, and maybe the rigidity was less.  
 

 On the other hand, as I understand it, the university has had to become more 
attractive to those without any TM background, which was not the case when I 
attended.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 That is a wonderfully creative idea Driving home the truth about TM all across 
America! I like it! And what does that mean, circumspect, exactly?
 
 On Tue, 4/8/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 7:57 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Michael,
 I'd say you've got your work cut out for
 you.  
 Tackle them one at a time.
 I can't think of a better use of your
 time.
 Maybe you can get a specially outfitted
 van.
 Michael's Traveling antiTM Van.
  Driving Home the Truth about TM Across America,
 or something along these lines.
 What do you think?
 Oh, and by the way, the professors I encountered
 during my days at MIU seemed a little more circumspect with
 the discipline/SCI connections.  
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Oh I know it
 happens but and I admit my experience doesn't cover ALL
 people in the world, but when I was at MIU the faculty
 members I encountered seemed to be a bit more of the True
 Believers than most of the staff and students, of course
 that could be because they were required as part of their
 jobs to really put forth the TM party line on any question
 or situation that arose. 
 
 
 
 I just hope that one day some enterprising individual will
 hire a group to analyze the entire scientific
 body of research on TM and TMSP, prove scientifically and
 statistically that it is NOT scientifically valid, that the
 appropriate authorities will look into the pundit program,
 see that MUM/GCWP is in violation of federal statues, shut
 down the pundit cash cow program, heavily fine the Movement,
 find the accreditation of MUM is undeserved and revoke it,
 Girish will then sell the place and all this after Hagelin
 and Moriss have had to own up to their womanizing in court,
 MUM will fire both of them, they will then turn on the
 Movement and tell all the dirty secrets to save their necks
 which will be the testimony that leads to the revoking of
 the accreditation.
 
 
 
 Also, a serious study will be undertaken to see how many
 TM'ers develop mental problems after long use of TM, the
 number of suicides and attempted suicides will be studied,
 and after all this is published, the TMO will be unable to
 claim any scientific validity to anything it does and is
 reduced to saying We think you should do it cause we
 need your money and we think its a good thing to do.
 
 
 
 Happy Tuesday!
 
 
 On Tue, 4/8/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 12:50 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Well, I would
 
 say you may still be a little wet behind the ears.  I
 
 think many have taken this route.  
 
 A
 
 friend of mine who was an active teacher back in the day,
 
 and lived in FF for a spell, is now priest in an
 archdiocese
 
 in Iowa somewhere, IIRC, and he tells a similar store as
 Kai
 
 Druhl, and his objections run along the same
 
 lines.
 
 I
 
 think you have a tendency to take at face value every claim
 
 MMY or the TMO has made, and then when they don't pan
 
 out you start pounding.  I think others were able to
 
 figure in a discount for the vision of
 
 possibilities and go from
 
 there.
 
 Yes,
 
 some of things that have come to light in the intervening
 
 years have caused me some cognitive dissonance, and forced
 
 me to look at things differently, but I know what I have
 
 taken away from the experience overall, and that has
 allowed
 
 me to overcome some of the dysfunctional parts of it
 
 all.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

Well, let's look at it this way.  Barry is on record that part of his interest 
here is to examine the mindset of true believers, or those he believes to be 
such.  I can understand that.   

 But it also works both ways.  I find it interesting to examine what drives 
some of the detractors.  And it helps me understand myself better.  
 

 I try to figure out what would make a person invest so much time and attention 
in trying to bring down an organization.  I mean there are many places to 
invest one's attention.  Why so much in this endeavor?
 

 What makes a person not move on?  
 

 There are things I would have done differently in life, but I've always 
understood, that I need to keep going forward. As trite as it sounds, it is 
spiritual understanding that motivates me. You get a little, and then you want 
more.
 

 So, it just strikes me as odd to see someone so preoccupied with past events. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Ah, thanks for clarifying. Thanks also for reaching out with your TM enhanced 
awareness and assessing my state of emotional development. It is true that I 
was emotionally arrested at age 10, but just 2 weeks of TM allowed me to catch 
up and I actually got enlightened after 6 months of TM. I am here on FFL 
because Cosmic Intelligence wants me to challenge you and Buck and a few others 
to test your enlightenment and hep you along the path. 
 
 As to MUM, here is a grand assessment from a student from a school review web 
site:
 
 The school is particularly scared of being sued, which is due in large part to 
a murder that occured in the cafeteria in 2004/5. This is why they changed the 
name from Maharishi International University to MUM... This has alot to do with 
why they are so scared of students who seem externally dissatisfied or angry 
about things. There are other problems, the roads are not well maintained (my 
car hit a pothole that popped the tire), the dorms have serious black mold 
issues (that no one talks about, for risk of legal action), safety in fire 
exits is compromised for the sake of sthapatya ved style of building which 
dictates that the only practical entrances to a building are east and north. 
This place is great if you want to be a lazy, loathsome, 20-something-year old 
kindergartner for the rest of your life. If you are there to get real and get 
an education, get the fuck out. That's all I got to say.
 
 And another that I love:
 
 I attended this university for three years. The campus is home to students and 
followers of Maharishi. In fact all of the faculty are also devoted followers 
of him and one finds themselves in a cult of personality. In all classes many 
hours are spent watching old tapes of Maharishi answering questions from 
audience members at conventions. The main goal of the school is to keep people 
calm. Work assignments are easy and wasteful of time. In my classes no one 
fails because the teachers often go over the questions and answers for upcoming 
exams. Life here is easy and soft, one learns laziness and passivity.
 
 Many people stay because life in the outside world is soon seen as hard and 
scary. Most teachers get paid around one thousand dollars a month before taxes 
and are given no retirement plan or other benefits except a meal pass at the 
cafeteria and an option to stay in a dorm room. Students are required to 
meditate during class time and have to go to class six days out of the week. 
Since all of the students get passed due to huge grade inflation, the 200 and 
300 level classes are filled with students who still don't understand the 
concepts on a 100 level. This is why answers are handed out. 
 
 So this school is wonderful if you want to vege out and get a diploma with a 
high GPA. But if you want to become prepared for a career in the real world 
stay far away from this place. My experience seems different from what I see in 
the computer science program; although this program is mainly filled with 
English as a second language students from Africa and Asia. My main advice for 
success at M.U.M. is too talk about how wonderful Maharishi and your meditation 
is. This advice will surely get you straight A's and many accolades regardless 
of what your term paper or presentation was supposed to be about.
 
 
 3rd Year Male -- Class 2013 
 
 On Wed, 4/9/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 12:09 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 what I mean
 is, that I don't recall many outlandish connections
 between the discipline being studied and the Science of
 Creative Intelligence.
 Some
 of the disciplines lent themselves to a better comparison,
 such as physics and mathematics, and maybe chemistry

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

Michael, 

 You always choose a narrative that suits you.  Never mind if it's inaccurate, 
or skewed.  It suits you and that's what's important.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Being enlightened, I have no past present or future. It is all happening right 
now. And you may notice that you seem to have somewhat of an obsession with 
what Barry or I do. Why not just accept that our interests lie in different 
places than yours and not attempt to change what we focus on? For myself, the 
thing about the TMO and Marshy for that matter I find so unappealing is the 
lying. As I said recently to Buck, if they would just present it all openly and 
honestly, I would have no quarrel with them at all. If everything is honest and 
all presented openly, then people can choose what they like.
 
 Sometimes the dishonesty and hypocrisy puts people at risk like the apparent 
on-going mold problem that keeps cropping up on the MUM campus. If they really 
gave a crap about their students and the faculty and staff for that matter, 
they would hire a company that can clean it out and make whatever changes to 
the structures and or heating/ air conditioning that need to be made to keep it 
from happening again. 
 
 But no, they would rather tell people that being in the satvic environment 
will keep them healthy all the while begging for more and more money that does 
not get spent on the quality of life for the students, staff and faculty. Bevan 
needs a new robe and a new gold crown more than the students need to be able to 
breathe without getting sick. 
 
 On Wed, 4/9/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 1:54 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Well,
 let's look at it this way.  Barry is on record that
 part of his interest here is to examine the mindset of true
 believers, or those he believes to be such.  I can
 understand that.  
 But
 it also works both ways.  I find it interesting to
 examine what drives some of the detractors.  And it helps me understand
 myself better.  
 I
 try to figure out what would make a person invest so much
 time and attention in trying to bring down an organization.
  I mean there are many places to invest one's
 attention.  Why so much in this
 endeavor?
 What
 makes a person not move on?  
 There are things I would have done differently in
 life, but I've always understood, that I need to keep
 going forward. As trite as it sounds, it is spiritual
 understanding that motivates me. You get a little, and then
 you want more.
 So,
 it just strikes me as odd to see someone so preoccupied with
 past events. 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Ah, thanks for
 clarifying. Thanks also for reaching out with your TM
 enhanced awareness and assessing my state of emotional
 development. It is true that I was emotionally arrested at
 age 10, but just 2 weeks of TM allowed me to catch up and I
 actually got enlightened after 6 months of TM. I am here on
 FFL because Cosmic Intelligence wants me to challenge you
 and Buck and a few others to test your enlightenment and hep
 you along the path. 
 
 
 
 As to MUM, here is a grand assessment from a student from a
 school review web site:
 
 
 
 The school is particularly scared of being sued, which is
 due in large part to a murder that occured in the cafeteria
 in 2004/5. This is why they changed the name from Maharishi
 International University to MUM... This has alot to do with
 why they are so scared of students who seem externally
 dissatisfied or angry about things. There are other
 problems, the roads are not well maintained (my car hit a
 pothole that popped the tire), the dorms have serious black
 mold issues (that no one talks about, for risk of legal
 action), safety in fire exits is compromised for the sake of
 sthapatya ved style of building which dictates
 that the only practical entrances to a building are east and
 north. This place is great if you want to be a lazy,
 loathsome, 20-something-year old kindergartner for the rest
 of your life. If you are there to get real and get an
 education, get the fuck out. That's all I got to say.
 
 
 
 And another that I love:
 
 
 
 I attended this university for three years. The campus is
 home to students and followers of Maharishi. In fact all of
 the faculty are also devoted followers of him and one finds
 themselves in a cult of personality. In all
 classes many hours are spent watching old tapes of Maharishi
 answering questions from audience members at conventions.
 The main goal of the school is to keep people calm. Work
 assignments are easy and wasteful of time. In my classes no
 one fails because

[FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons?

2014-04-07 Thread steve.sundur

I enjoyed his story and I'm happy for him.  

 I will say Michael, that the Kundalini energy is a real thing, by whatever 
name it goes by.  
 

 And I have experiences with it, quite apart from the practice of any eastern 
form of mediation.
 

 And it surprises me, not the least, if people might get freaked out by some of 
them manifestations that energy can take.  
 

 What do you think?

[FairfieldLife] Funny Little Observation

2014-04-07 Thread steve.sundur

I happened to be looking at a vial of make up my wife had, and saw that one of 
the two main ingredients was titanium dioxide, which I happen to know is the 
main ingredient in paint. 

 The more titanium dioxide, the better the paint.
 

 And it looked like she splurged on a better grade of make up, so that little 2 
oz. vial may have cost the same as a decent gallon of paint.
 

 But I guess, that's nothing new.  The amount of grain in a cereal box is 
probably less than $0.05, and we know how much an average box of cereal goes 
for.
 

 And of course a gallon of bottled water, (name brand in quarts or pints)) that 
you might get at the grocery store, costs more than a gallon of gasoline that 
might have had it's origin in Saudi Arabia.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy

I think it works both ways Michael.  Sometimes you look back on things more 
fondly, and sometimes the opposite. 

 There are times when I feel I could easily slip back into my old TM routine 
along with the belief system that went along with that. 
 

 And then I think for others, as time goes on,  MMY is painted as an 
increasingly bad person.  Maybe when they left, it was, enough of this shit, 
I'm outta here, but now MMY has morphed into a con man extraordinaire, an 
unenlightened person who just happened to have a bit of charisma.
 

 For me, my eyes have been opened some, but I got launched on a spiritual path, 
as I think you did.  And it is something for which I am immensely grateful.  
Not to get too sentimental about it.
 

 

 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Add to that the fact that some of Sir Paul's friends/girlfriends say that he 
has been smoking pot for more than 40 years like some Brits drink tea, as in 
every single day. Then suddenly he and Ringo are stumping for David Lynch - 
reckon they just woke up one day and said Gee, I am gonna start doing ads for 
TM and telling how lucky I was to spend a few weeks in India with Marshy. 
Lynch is giving them something in return for their PR, count on it. 
 
 On Sat, 4/5/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, April 5, 2014, 6:19 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 1 Comment
 below
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
LEnglish5@...
 wrote :
 
 He was a brilliant
 manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just
 couldn't see that he was a dirty old man. We made love
 regularly. At one stage I even thought I was pregnant by
 him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a
 lot of talk that he'd tried to
 rape
 This
 seems a far cry from the poignant tale of love told in
  her story of the affair (I've never read it, so
 going by hearsay). Anthony Campbell commented on her claim
 and said that Maharishi was in meetings with large groups of
 people at all hours of hte day and night during that time,
 and tehre's no way a secret affair could have happened
 without everyone (including him) being in on it. Campbell is
 now a practicing Buddhist.
 Mia
 Farrow says that given her frame of mind at that time, had
 Jesus given her a hug, she would have taken it the wrong
 way.
 The
 two surviving Beatles gave a benefit concert to raise money
 for TM some years back, spoke highly of Maharishi in
 interviews, and John Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono, even
 attended the concert.
 The two
 non-surviving Beatles, Lennon and Harrison (the ones who
 were actually in Rishikesh at the time of the incident),
 quit TM soon after getting back from India. Harrison had the
 Iskcon camping in his garden by the end of that year. They
 both said that chanting the Krishna mantra was the ultimate
 spiritual experience and did it for years, Harrison kept it
 up until he died, claiming it saved his life many
 times.
 Iskcon
 publish a book about it but they don't mention TM,
 saying that Harrison and Lennon had been doing a type of
 mantra meditation for a while.
 Regarding
 Mia Farrow, she was alone with the reesh and he tried to put
 his arms round her and get her to lie down. You don't
 need to know anything else do you, it's inappropriate
 enough without any fantasies. When LH heard about it
 they announced to Marshy that they were leaving and he asked
 why. Lennon said If you're so cosmic, you tell
 us. 
 The
 fickleness of the famous? Or the only people who ever said
 no?
 
 By
 the way, wasn't it YOU, Michael, who quoted Jerry Jarvis
 t us, saying that he recalled Linda pierce as teh woman who
 stood up in advanced lecture recounting her dream that she
 and Maharishi got married and that Maharishi replied that
 she needed to learn to not confuse dreams with
 reality.
 years
 later, in an interview, she says that Maharishi appeared to
 her in a dream and begged her to publish the book in order
 to set the record straight and help repair his horribly
 damaged karma.
 
 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Nice
 write up:
 
 
 
 Maharishi inspired Beatles but died leaving £2b and rape
 rumours
 
 The Mirror, UK/February 7, 2008
 
 By Nick Webster
 
 
 
 He inspired the Beatles and promised world peace but died
 leaving £2 billion amid rumours of rape and murder
 
 
 
 He was the Sixth Beatle, a spiritual force with the
 potential to create world peace and end famine.
 
 
 
 Or he was an avaricious old man with a penchant for young
 girls who ruined the greatest pop group in history.
 
 
 
 It rather depends on your point of view, but one thing is
 certain about the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who died this week

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Extended FFL Puja

Ann, Ann, we can't leave out Ann. 

 Offering some newly fashioned spurs to plunge into the hind side of anyone she 
thinks is out of line and a bag of carrots for her equestrian friends.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 See, this is why I love turq. God help me! Whoops, turq, sorry about the God 
part. Anyway, laughing so hard that I'm crying, can't remember when I had such 
a non stop grin, etc. Good way to start the new posting week too. Minion group 
hug...
 

 On Saturday, April 5, 2014 5:25 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
   
It occurs to me, sipping my coffee on the outdoor patio of Bad Habits, enjoying 
the almost-sunshine of a Dutch Saturday morning in April, that a lot of people 
seem to only focus on the flashy siddhis, and the equally flashy saints and 
teachers who manifested them. This strikes me as patently unfair, because there 
are any number of less flashy but equally praiseworthy siddhis out there, and 
Fairfield Life -- composed as it is of long-term seekers who have at the very 
least a black belt in seeking -- contains any number of masters of these lesser 
siddhis. 

Thus I propose to...uh...extend the TM puja and its offerings to the more 
well-known masters of the Holy Tradition, and include offerings to more modern 
masters of that lineage. So here, off the top of my head, are my proposed puja 
extensions. You tack them on at the end of the current set of offerings. 

[ If I left you out, its either because I really am doing this off the top of 
my head and didn't remember you, or because you don't really matter. Your call. 
]

* Offering a Finnish-Dothraki phrasebook to the lotus feet of Sri Cardemeister, 
who manifested the siddhi of knowing more languages than God. 

* Offering a stuffed Minion figure to the lotus feet of Sri Share, for 
manifesting the siddhi of never being afraid to...uh...share. 

* Offering a pair of vintage nose glasses to the lotus feet of Sri Merudanda, 
who manifested the siddhi of being able to have fun with pretty much 
everything, be it On The Program, or Off. 

* Offering a shiny, black Mind Police uniform to the lotus feet of Sri Buck, 
for manifesting the siddhi of Just Being Buck. 

* Offering a Netflix gift certificate to the lotus feet of Sri Bhairitu, who 
manifested the compassion siddhi of seeing virtue in zombies. 

* Offering a can of Maharishi Brand Vedic Sunshine to the lotus feet of Sri 
SallySunshine, for manifesting the siddhi of laughing one's tormentors into 
fits of apoplexy. 

* Offering a cup of tea and a biscuit to the lotus feet of Sri Salyavin, who 
manifested the siddhi of reminding people why the best masters of the barbed 
epigram are all English. 

* Offering a fake ZZ Top beard and a six-pack of Lone Star to the lotus feet of 
Sri Richard, for manifesting the siddhi of exemplifying being from Texas, where 
the men are men and the prairie dogs are nervous. 

* Offering an appropriate Ayurvedic gemstone to the lotus feet of Sri JR, who 
manifested the all-important siddhi of stating the obvious. 

* Offering Lady Gaga tickets to the lotus feet of Sri Robin, for manifesting 
the siddhi of self promotion.

* Offering a new Dior gown and Luboton high heels to the lotus feet of Sri 
DoctorD, who so ably manifested the siddhi of remaining humble while being so 
much more evolved than everyone else. 

* Offering a holiday in the Greek Isles to the lotus feet of Sri Anartaxius, 
for manifesting the siddhi of being able to talk about states of consciousness 
as if he had actually experienced them and they weren't that big a deal. 

* Offering an RC Cola and a moon pie to the lotus feet of Sri Michael, who 
manifested the siddhi of exemplifying the principle of Illegitimi non 
carborundum.

* Offering a set of gold lame fingerless gloves to the lotus feet of Sri Emily, 
for manifesting the siddhi of picking up after one's dog.

* Offering a stainless steel shit shovel to the lotus feet of Sri Steve, who 
manifested the siddhi of never being afraid to call bullshit, wherever he saw 
it.

* Offering a new headset to the lotus feet of Sri Rick, for manifesting the 
siddhi of infinite patience by sitting through interviews in which dozens of 
selfless beings talked about themselves. 

* Offering a new washing machine to the lotus feet of Sri Alex, who manifested 
the siddhi of retaining his sense of humor about It All despite having to be a 
moderator at FFL.

* Offering a John Birch toilet seat to the lotus feet of Sri Mike, for 
manifesting the siddhi of having execrable politics but being occasionally so 
funny one could overlook it. 

* Offering a real vehicle to the lotus feet of Sri Edg, for attempting and 
almost mastering the siddhi of retaining one's dignity while riding a Trike. 

* Offering a vintage Segovia album to the lotus feet of Sri Lawson, who 
manifested the siddhi of being able to produce a scientific study to prove 
almost anything. 

* Offering a signed photo of Maitreya

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dubya's Artworks

The bumper stick I liked the best was, . and somewhere in Texas a village 
is missing it's idiot
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Re: trying to play President  I always had that impression also; total 
fish out of water and an idiot to boot.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 He probably should have been an artist and stayed out of the family business.  
He always seemed uncomfortable trying to play President.
 
 On 04/05/2014 05:45 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote :
 
 George W. Bush has recently displayed his works of art, as shown in the link 
below.  What do you think?
 

 He's a better artist than he was a president.
 

 http://news.yahoo.com/photos/portraits-by-george-w-bush-slideshow/ 
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/portraits-by-george-w-bush-slideshow/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Extended FFL Puja

Ah, far better than mine!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 turq, of course I'm still relieved that you let me off the hook so lightly. 
This time! Anyway, if I may humbly make an additon:

 to Sri Ann, a book of baby names, but with pronunciation guidelines which is 
mainly for my sake since I still have no idea how to pronounce Bawwy. Go figure!

 On Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:43 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

 Hilarious. Hope you have a super day!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 
It occurs to me, sipping my coffee on the outdoor patio of Bad Habits, enjoying 
the almost-sunshine of a Dutch Saturday morning in April, that a lot of people 
seem to only focus on the flashy siddhis, and the equally flashy saints and 
teachers who manifested them. This strikes me as patently unfair, because there 
are any number of less flashy but equally praiseworthy siddhis out there, and 
Fairfield Life -- composed as it is of long-term seekers who have at the very 
least a black belt in seeking -- contains any number of masters of these lesser 
siddhis. 

Thus I propose to...uh...extend the TM puja and its offerings to the more 
well-known masters of the Holy Tradition, and include offerings to more modern 
masters of that lineage. So here, off the top of my head, are my proposed puja 
extensions. You tack them on at the end of the current set of offerings. 

[ If I left you out, its either because I really am doing this off the top of 
my head and didn't remember you, or because you don't really matter. Your call. 
]

* Offering a Finnish-Dothraki phrasebook to the lotus feet of Sri Cardemeister, 
who manifested the siddhi of knowing more languages than God. 

* Offering a stuffed Minion figure to the lotus feet of Sri Share, for 
manifesting the siddhi of never being afraid to...uh...share. 

* Offering a pair of vintage nose glasses to the lotus feet of Sri Merudanda, 
who manifested the siddhi of being able to have fun with pretty much 
everything, be it On The Program, or Off. 

* Offering a shiny, black Mind Police uniform to the lotus feet of Sri Buck, 
for manifesting the siddhi of Just Being Buck. 

* Offering a Netflix gift certificate to the lotus feet of Sri Bhairitu, who 
manifested the compassion siddhi of seeing virtue in zombies. 

* Offering a can of Maharishi Brand Vedic Sunshine to the lotus feet of Sri 
SallySunshine, for manifesting the siddhi of laughing one's tormentors into 
fits of apoplexy. 

* Offering a cup of tea and a biscuit to the lotus feet of Sri Salyavin, who 
manifested the siddhi of reminding people why the best masters of the barbed 
epigram are all English. 

* Offering a fake ZZ Top beard and a six-pack of Lone Star to the lotus feet of 
Sri Richard, for manifesting the siddhi of exemplifying being from Texas, where 
the men are men and the prairie dogs are nervous. 

* Offering an appropriate Ayurvedic gemstone to the lotus feet of Sri JR, who 
manifested the all-important siddhi of stating the obvious. 

* Offering Lady Gaga tickets to the lotus feet of Sri Robin, for manifesting 
the siddhi of self promotion.

* Offering a new Dior gown and Luboton high heels to the lotus feet of Sri 
DoctorD, who so ably manifested the siddhi of remaining humble while being so 
much more evolved than everyone else. 

* Offering a holiday in the Greek Isles to the lotus feet of Sri Anartaxius, 
for manifesting the siddhi of being able to talk about states of consciousness 
as if he had actually experienced them and they weren't that big a deal. 

* Offering an RC Cola and a moon pie to the lotus feet of Sri Michael, who 
manifested the siddhi of exemplifying the principle of Illegitimi non 
carborundum.

* Offering a set of gold lame fingerless gloves to the lotus feet of Sri Emily, 
for manifesting the siddhi of picking up after one's dog.

* Offering a stainless steel shit shovel to the lotus feet of Sri Steve, who 
manifested the siddhi of never being afraid to call bullshit, wherever he saw 
it.

* Offering a new headset to the lotus feet of Sri Rick, for manifesting the 
siddhi of infinite patience by sitting through interviews in which dozens of 
selfless beings talked about themselves. 

* Offering a new washing machine to the lotus feet of Sri Alex, who manifested 
the siddhi of retaining his sense of humor about It All despite having to be a 
moderator at FFL.

* Offering a John Birch toilet seat to the lotus feet of Sri Mike, for 
manifesting the siddhi of having execrable politics but being occasionally so 
funny one could overlook it. 

* Offering a real vehicle to the lotus feet of Sri Edg, for attempting and 
almost mastering the siddhi of retaining one's dignity while riding a Trike. 

* Offering a vintage Segovia album to the lotus feet of Sri Lawson, who 
manifested the siddhi of being able to produce a scientific study to prove 
almost anything. 

* Offering a signed photo of Maitreya to the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy

it would be at this point like this that an old girl friend would make an 
airplane sound and a gesture of a hand moving over her head. 

 Or as Audrey said to Seymour in Little Shop of Horrors, You're acting 
peculiar Judy
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 What debate? I wasn't debating anything with you, just pointing out that there 
were multiple versions of the Beatles-leaving-Maharishi story. 

 

 What that got to do with anything? Other than deflecting the debate 

 Well, you might have a bit of a conflict with Share about this. Her infamous 
accusation that she had been psychologically raped by Robin emerged a month 
after the fact. At the time, what he'd said was no more than a minor 
irritation, and she apologized to Robin for being grumpy, blaming it on having 
had too much sugar the previous day. 

 

 

 Whatever happend re Mia Farrow: I don't care what she thinks of it now, what 
she said at the time was fascinating. Did she make it up and change her mind or 
was she persuaded to by everyone else? We will never know but I'd always take 
the closest account of something to the time it was supposed to have happened 
as being the most accurate, any detective will tell you that. Memory is 
unreliable and impressionable.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy

we saw the movie Lunch Box last night.  It was okay, but one of the themes 
that kept coming up was, sometimes the wrong train can get you to the right 
place 

 I am not sure if you have regret, or if you do, how deep it goes.  I know I 
have some regret, but in spite of that, I feel that things have worked out 
okay.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I don't think its a matter of morphing - its having your eyes open to see what 
was always there. Its like having a spouse who cheats on you, and has been 
doing so since you were first married - you thought they were faithful, but you 
were wrong - then you see what was always there and you have a different 
attitude and energy around the person.
 
 On Sat, 4/5/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, April 5, 2014, 10:09 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I think it
 works both ways Michael.  Sometimes you look back on
 things more fondly, and sometimes the
 opposite.
 There are times when I feel I could easily slip back
 into my old TM routine along with the belief system that
 went along with that. 
 And
 then I think for others, as time goes on,  MMY is
 painted as an increasingly bad person.  Maybe when they
 left, it was, enough of this shit, I'm outta
 here, but now MMY has morphed into a con man
 extraordinaire, an unenlightened person who just happened to
 have a bit of charisma.
 For
 me, my eyes have been opened some, but I got launched on a
 spiritual path, as I think you did.  And it is
 something for which I am immensely grateful.  Not to
 get too sentimental about it.
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@... wrote
 :
 
 Add to that the
 fact that some of Sir Paul's friends/girlfriends say
 that he has been smoking pot for more than 40 years like
 some Brits drink tea, as in every single day. Then suddenly
 he and Ringo are stumping for David Lynch - reckon they just
 woke up one day and said Gee, I am gonna start doing
 ads for TM and telling how lucky I was to spend a few weeks
 in India with Marshy. Lynch is giving them something
 in return for their PR, count on it. 
 
 
 On Sat, 4/5/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Saturday, April 5, 2014, 6:19 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 1 Comment
 
 below
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 LEnglish5@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 He was a brilliant
 
 manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just
 
 couldn't see that he was a dirty old man. We made love
 
 regularly. At one stage I even thought I was pregnant by
 
 him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a
 
 lot of talk that he'd tried to
 
 rape
 
 This
 
 seems a far cry from the poignant tale of love told in
 
  her story of the affair (I've never read it, so
 
 going by hearsay). Anthony Campbell commented on her claim
 
 and said that Maharishi was in meetings with large groups
 of
 
 people at all hours of hte day and night during that time,
 
 and tehre's no way a secret affair could have happened
 
 without everyone (including him) being in on it. Campbell
 is
 
 now a practicing Buddhist.
 
 Mia
 
 Farrow says that given her frame of mind at that time, had
 
 Jesus given her a hug, she would have taken it the wrong
 
 way.
 
 The
 
 two surviving Beatles gave a benefit concert to raise money
 
 for TM some years back, spoke highly of Maharishi in
 
 interviews, and John Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono, even
 
 attended the concert.
 
 The two
 
 non-surviving Beatles, Lennon and Harrison (the ones who
 
 were actually in Rishikesh at the time of the incident),
 
 quit TM soon after getting back from India. Harrison had
 the
 
 Iskcon camping in his garden by the end of that year. They
 
 both said that chanting the Krishna mantra was the ultimate
 
 spiritual experience and did it for years, Harrison kept it
 
 up until he died, claiming it saved his life many
 
 times.
 
 Iskcon
 
 publish a book about it but they don't mention TM,
 
 saying that Harrison and Lennon had been doing a type of
 
 mantra meditation for a while.
 
 Regarding
 
 Mia Farrow, she was alone with the reesh and he tried to
 put
 
 his arms round her and get her to lie down. You don't
 
 need to know anything else do you, it's inappropriate
 
 enough without any fantasies. When LH heard about it
 
 they announced to Marshy that they were leaving and he
 asked
 
 why. Lennon said If you're so cosmic

Re: [FairfieldLife] Send the Koch brothers to Mars

Ha!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 Well you can't even wipe your ass these days without helping the Koch brothers 
get rich.
 
 On 04/05/2014 03:27 PM, Mike Dixon wrote:
 
   Well, if you sent the Koch bros to Mars, they'd probably make a lot of money 
and really piss you off!
 On Saturday, April 5, 2014 9:15 AM, Bhairitu noozguru@... 
mailto:noozguru@... wrote:
 
   
 So you are on the side of the corrupt.  Go figure.
 
 On 04/04/2014 08:00 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote:

   On 4/4/2014 1:27 PM, Bhairitu wrote:
  I think I'll do a sequel to my popular Republican Cry Babies video 
  on YouTube with Charles and David crying with Boner and issa.
 
 Do you even know the difference between a Republican and a Libertarian?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy

I'll make a point of it Judy.  And if I can vaguely figure out what point you 
are trying to make before I get utterly bored, I'll let you know what I find.  
But usually the first rabbit hole pops up pretty early. (-:
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Oh, Feebs, you need to read the posts in the thread before you comment. 
Especially if it's not one of your better days. Be a good idea to read the 
follow-up posts as well. 

 

 it would be at this point like this that an old girl friend would make an 
airplane sound and a gesture of a hand moving over her head. 

 Or as Audrey said to Seymour in Little Shop of Horrors, You're acting 
peculiar Judy
 

 

 

 What debate? I wasn't debating anything with you, just pointing out that there 
were multiple versions of the Beatles-leaving-Maharishi story. 

 What that got to do with anything? Other than deflecting the debate 

 

 

 

 

 Well, you might have a bit of a conflict with Share about this. Her infamous 
accusation that she had been psychologically raped by Robin emerged a month 
after the fact. At the time, what he'd said was no more than a minor 
irritation, and she apologized to Robin for being grumpy, blaming it on having 
had too much sugar the previous day. 

 Whatever happend re Mia Farrow: I don't care what she thinks of it now, what 
she said at the time was fascinating. Did she make it up and change her mind or 
was she persuaded to by everyone else? We will never know but I'd always take 
the closest account of something to the time it was supposed to have happened 
as being the most accurate, any detective will tell you that. Memory is 
unreliable and impressionable.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

2014-04-04 Thread steve.sundur

Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion.  I just 
mentioned that as one comment  I once heard. 

 As rituals go,it seems okay to me.  Is it hurting anyone?  Not that I can see. 
 Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It 
seems to.
 

 There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one  MJ regularly 
castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion 
involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual 
communion.
 

 So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum.
 

 My wife and kids regularly get communion. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as 
cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been 
comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of 
Christ. 

Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to 
something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole 
some of the pagan holidays. 
 

 What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, 
psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some 
of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her 
newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?!

 On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
wrote:
 
   You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism.  I don't.  I don't 
see anything wrong with it.  As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any.  I 
don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow.  It's been a while since 
I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that 
Passover Supper.
 

 Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in 
Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests 
to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in 
all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when 
it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human 
brain about that. Does that sound far out?
 

 On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
wrote:
 
   You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the 
Vedic Gods.  But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of 
jibberish.  I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not 
misrepresenting him.
 

 But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions.  And I think most 
traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think 
the teachings of Jesus show this as well.
 

 What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the 
gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange.  I 
think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of Hinduism.  But do you 
really think they needed this to try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM?  I 
mean the Puja could probably make that case.  And that is hardly hidden.
 

 And I guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or meaningless, 
but for whatever reason, and in some way, the technique has worked for many 
people, and still works for people who are just now learning it.
 

 And I believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed whether to 
bring it out as a religious practice, or a scientific one.  Obviously the 
scientific approach won out.  But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones 
are there. On the other hand, so what.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Somehow in my looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys ever 
see this tape? If so what did you think of it?
 
 Soma and the Gods
 On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma and the Gods taken 
from testimony in the Kropinski trial. This videotape is one of a handful that 
have become infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is only 
shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher Training Course (TTC). 
For many years copies of this tape were not even allowed to enter the 
continental US.
 
 For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's OT materials, Soma and 
the Gods lays out the Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public 
is not deemed ready for by the Maharishi and the movement.
 
 According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape -- along with the 
entire TTC catalog -- appeared mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. 
Since then the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to prove that 
the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu, agenda -- largely because

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

2014-04-04 Thread steve.sundur

Thank you for correcting my error in stating that you had castigated Mr. 
Leadbeater. 

 I was aware of the accusations made against him, but I was not aware of the 
wild theories he evidently espoused.  I have read some of his books about 
clairvoyance and his reports of refined perception and I have found those quite 
interesting.
 

 I have read very little of anything written by Madame Blavatsky or Alice 
Bailey.  For some reason, I was never drawn to their writings.  But I have 
reported on this site, that I found the book Thinking and Destiny by Harold 
Waldwin Pericival to be of great interest.
 

 I'd be curious if you are familiar with that book.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I don't nor have I ever castigated CW Leadbeater - I merely reported what has 
been written about him - by all accounts he had a fondness for sexual 
encounters with teenage boys, an activity that he indulged in and made into 
some sort of spiritual mumbo jumbo. As a result he was kicked out of the 
original Theosophical Society, later being re-instated by Alice Bailey I think 
after Blavatsky was dead - a snippit of info here on good ol' CW since you seem 
to be fond of him:
 
 At the height of Leadbeater’s renown, however, serious moral charges were 
brought against him. As Nevill Drury and Gregory Tillett explain in their 
authoritative study of the occult in Australia, “the police undertook an 
investigation into Leadbeater and his relationships with his pupils, although 
Leadbeater himself would not be interviewed.
 
 The official conclusions of the enquiry were that there was no evidence to 
sustain any charge, however the officers undertaking the investigation were 
satisfied Leadbeater did have a sexual relationship with at least some of his 
young male pupils, although he denied this. He did not deny habitually sleeping 
with his pupils, or sharing his bath with them. The precise details of 
Leadbeater’s sexual relationship with his pupils, and his occult teachings of 
these matters remain one of the mysteries in his life.3
 
 Many of Leadbeater’s public pronouncements were igniting no less heated 
controversy, both inside and outside the Society. He stated that mankind 
originated on the Moon, eventually came to Earth several hundred thousand years 
ago, and is destined to some day leave this world, resettling on the planet 
Mercury. Mars, he said, was a pleasant place inhabited by human beings not much 
unlike ourselves, though more spiritually and intellectually elevated, and go 
around like Buddhist monks, bare-footed and dressed in common robes.
 
 On Fri, 4/4/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 12:25 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Share, I
 think you can find all manner of opinions about communion.
  I just mentioned that as one comment  I once
 heard.
 As
 rituals go,it seems okay to me.  Is it hurting anyone?
  Not that I can see.  Does it bring people some
 measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems
 to.
 There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the
 same one  MJ regularly castigates), who said that the
 whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels
 creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual
 communion.
 So,
 there's a comment on the other end of the
 spectrum.
 My
 wife and kids regularly get communion. 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
sharelong60@...
 wrote :
 
 Steve, I didn't know that about
 Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I
 can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never
 been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly
 become the blood of Christ. 
 
 Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the
 Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans
 were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan
 holidays. 
 
 What
 I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience,
 psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible
 explanations for some of our so called spiritual
 experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for
 her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge
 increase in oxytocin?!
 On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM,
 steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
  You know Share, some people
 compare it to cannibalism.  I don't.  I
 don't see anything wrong with it.  As rituals go,
 it seems as good a one as any.  I don't know if it
 was corrupted along the way somehow.  It's been a
 while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly
 that's the way it played out at that Passover
 Supper.
 Not that it matters, but I
 think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air.
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: PHARRELL WILLIAMS - HAPPY (INDIA)

I noticed the background in one scene were mall stores including Louis Vuitton 
and the like.  Perhaps that's your idea of Indian. Looks to me like they 
probably didn't get much past the airport in any of the locations.  On the 
other hand, I only watched a snippet of two of them.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Perhaps people on this list should travel more. Because they don't wear dhotis 
or are filmed in front of Temples it can't possibly be from India :-) 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote :

 What was missing were sadhus dancing to this at Kumbha Mela.
 On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 6:17 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

 Starting unstressing before we watch the video are we ? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 India?  That looked like downtown Chicago.  What a crock.  You get that a lot. 
 Misleading headlines, lead-ins that never materialize in the story. 

 What a shame that they try to pull that crap on people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Enjoy !
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

Am I missing something, because isn't that what the 10th mandala is about in 
just about every verse.  So even though it's been some 20 plus years since I 
listened to it, that's my recollection.  

 Evidently that is something the Vedas concern themselves with.  Do you 
consider this revelation?   I guess you do.
 

 Are you are trying to paint it as some strange ritual where people splay 
themselves out and cry, Indra, eat me, eat me!
 

 If so, I must have missed that. (-:
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I just found it interesting - as I said I think, somehow this particular 
document had escaped my attention. I was told during the sidhi prep courses 
that we produce soma in the stomach and only if we have soma being produced can 
we have experiences of higher states of consciousness. That's what the 
governors who taught the courses told us and those would be Greg Palma, Walter 
Gibbons and Paul Potter (for those here who love to have sources quoted). But 
nothing was ever said about the gods eating it and giving us blessings as a 
result.
 
 I had no idea such a tape existed and I wanted to hear from the TM teachers 
here to see if they had seen the tape and what they thought of it at the time 
they saw it. That's all.
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 3:49 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You know
 Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas,
 about the Vedic Gods.  But I don't. There are some
 who think it is all a bunch of jibberish.  I think
 Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not
 misrepresenting him.
 But I
 do generally have respect for ancient traditions.  And
 I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a
 deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show
 this as well.
 
 What
 you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being
 produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it,
 doesn't really strike me as that strange.  I think
 it's probably standard stuff in some schools of
 Hinduism.  But do you really think they needed this to
 try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM?  I mean the
 Puja could probably make that case.  And that is hardly
 hidden.
 And I
 guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or
 meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way, the
 technique has worked for many people, and still works for
 people who are just now learning it.
 And I
 believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed
 whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a
 scientific one.  Obviously the scientific approach won
 out.  But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones
 are there. On the other hand, so what.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Somehow in my
 looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys
 ever see this tape? If so what did you think of it?
 
 
 
 Soma and the Gods
 
 On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma
 and the Gods taken from testimony in the Kropinski
 trial. This videotape is one of a handful that have become
 infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is
 only shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher
 Training Course (TTC). For many years copies of this tape
 were not even allowed to enter the continental US.
 
 
 
 For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's
 OT materials, Soma and the Gods lays out the
 Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public
 is not deemed ready for by the Maharishi and the
 movement.
 
 
 
 According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape
 -- along with the entire TTC catalog -- appeared
 mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. Since then
 the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to prove
 that the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu,
 agenda -- largely because it's one of the few times the
 Maharishi was captured on tape talking about worshipping the
 Vedic Gods. (Of course today, the TM movement sells Hindu
 sacrifices, yagyas or yajnas, to Ganesh, Lakshmi, and other
 Gods for thousands of dollars without batting an eye!)
 
 
 
 But the true significance of Soma and the Gods
 is much larger. And the theology that the Maharishi espouses
 is not Hinduism. It is much more idiosyncratic -- and
 frankly bizarre.
 
 
 
 In a nutshell, the Maharishi describes a sort of parasitic
 relationship between TMers and the Vedic Gods. TMers produce
 the magical chemical Soma in their gut -- but it isn't
 something they can use directly. The Vedic Gods, principally
 Indra, descend from Heaven and feed on the Soma in the
 TMers' belly. In return for this primitive

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

Michael, with all due respect, you are not an expert on Hinduism, or even 
superstitious Hinduism for that matter. I think we saw that last week.  So you 
have an opinion on the relationship of Soma and the Vedic Gods, but it is just 
your interpretation, unless you claim to be able to decipher the clear meaning 
of the Vedic verses. 

 You probably don't know what chemicals a refined nervous system may create, 
and if they have any effect on ones environment, or the elements of nature, if 
there is such a thing. 
 

 So, you may choose to spin Maharishi's comments in anyway you choose, but the 
case you are making seems rather weak to me.  
 

 The introductory lecture for TM discusses benefits in four areas, if I'm not 
mistaken.  There is a reference to the tradition that it comes from.  But I 
don't think, in fact I know, there are no grandiose claims being made.
 

 I think sometimes your points are on target, but oftentimes not.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Its the ninth mandala actually, but it was never phrased so that I remember - 
also it is significant that M who always claimed publicly to offer a technique 
that is non-religious to covertly tell everyone inthe room point blank that the 
purpose of meditation is to refine the body so it produces soma so Indra and 
the other gods can have lunch on your nickle and they will give you rewards as 
a result. This is not just Hinduism but superstitious Hinduism. If what he was 
teaching in this tape was legit, he would never had had the tapes recalled. As 
I believe the Turq said not long ago, if TM was a great as they claim it is, 
they wouldn't have to lie to sell it.
 
 I am also eager to hear from any other teachers who post here who have seen 
the tape and what they thought of it at the time and what they think of it now, 
or remember when the word came down to give 'em back to the Movement. I think 
its a very interesting bit of Movement history.
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 11:41 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Am I missing
 something, because isn't that what the 10th mandala is
 about in just about every verse.  So even though
 it's been some 20 plus years since I listened to it,
 that's my recollection. 
 Evidently that is something the Vedas concern
 themselves with.  Do you consider this revelation?
   I guess you do.
 Are
 you are trying to paint it as some strange ritual where
 people splay themselves out and cry, Indra, eat me,
 eat me!
 If
 so, I must have missed that. (-:
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 I just found it
 interesting - as I said I think, somehow this particular
 document had escaped my attention. I was told during the
 sidhi prep courses that we produce soma in the stomach and
 only if we have soma being produced can we have experiences
 of higher states of consciousness. That's
 what the governors who taught the courses told us and those
 would be Greg Palma, Walter Gibbons and Paul Potter (for
 those here who love to have sources quoted). But nothing was
 ever said about the gods eating it and giving us blessings
 as a result.
 
 
 
 I had no idea such a tape existed and I wanted to hear from
 the TM teachers here to see if they had seen the tape and
 what they thought of it at the time they saw it. That's
 all.
 
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 3:49 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You know
 
 Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas,
 
 about the Vedic Gods.  But I don't. There are some
 
 who think it is all a bunch of jibberish.  I think
 
 Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not
 
 misrepresenting him.
 
 But I
 
 do generally have respect for ancient traditions.  And
 
 I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and
 a
 
 deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show
 
 this as well.
 
 
 
 What
 
 you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being
 
 produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it,
 
 doesn't really strike me as that strange.  I think
 
 it's probably standard stuff in some schools of
 
 Hinduism.  But do you really think they needed this to
 
 try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM?  I mean the
 
 Puja could probably make that case.  And that is
 hardly
 
 hidden.
 
 And I
 
 guess you could parse whether the Mantras have

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: PHARRELL WILLIAMS - HAPPY (INDIA)

Nab, 

 I have no doubt.  No doubt whatsoever that there are Louis Vuitton shops in 
India, as well as Channel and Gucci, and every other luxury brand.  Malls in 
every part of the world are similar.
 

 But if I were trying to show something uniquely Indian, that is not what I 
would highlight, unless I was in a hurry and just had time to jump off the 
plane and into the terminal for a few minutes, on my way to another locale.  
 

 I have a feeling that might be the way they produced those videos, although I 
really didn't look at them.
 

 Please correct me if I am mistaken.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 So you saw a Louis Vuitton shop and gathered it couldn't be India ? If you 
have a valid passport perhaps you should travel more. According to the Turq 
only 15% of the Americans have a valid passport. Use it if you have one.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 I noticed the background in one scene were mall stores including Louis Vuitton 
and the like.  Perhaps that's your idea of Indian. Looks to me like they 
probably didn't get much past the airport in any of the locations.  On the 
other hand, I only watched a snippet of two of them.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Perhaps people on this list should travel more. Because they don't wear dhotis 
or are filmed in front of Temples it can't possibly be from India :-) 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote :

 What was missing were sadhus dancing to this at Kumbha Mela.
 On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 6:17 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   

 Starting unstressing before we watch the video are we ? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 India?  That looked like downtown Chicago.  What a crock.  You get that a lot. 
 Misleading headlines, lead-ins that never materialize in the story. 

 What a shame that they try to pull that crap on people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Enjoy !
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism.  I don't.  I don't see 
anything wrong with it.  As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any.  I don't 
know if it was corrupted along the way somehow.  It's been a while since I've 
read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover 
Supper. 

 Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in 
Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests 
to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in 
all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when 
it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human 
brain about that. Does that sound far out?
 

 On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
wrote:
 
   You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the 
Vedic Gods.  But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of 
jibberish.  I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not 
misrepresenting him.
 

 But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions.  And I think most 
traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think 
the teachings of Jesus show this as well.
 

 What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the 
gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange.  I 
think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of Hinduism.  But do you 
really think they needed this to try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM?  I 
mean the Puja could probably make that case.  And that is hardly hidden.
 

 And I guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or meaningless, 
but for whatever reason, and in some way, the technique has worked for many 
people, and still works for people who are just now learning it.
 

 And I believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed whether to 
bring it out as a religious practice, or a scientific one.  Obviously the 
scientific approach won out.  But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones 
are there. On the other hand, so what.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Somehow in my looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys ever 
see this tape? If so what did you think of it?
 
 Soma and the Gods
 On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma and the Gods taken 
from testimony in the Kropinski trial. This videotape is one of a handful that 
have become infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is only 
shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher Training Course (TTC). 
For many years copies of this tape were not even allowed to enter the 
continental US.
 
 For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's OT materials, Soma and 
the Gods lays out the Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public 
is not deemed ready for by the Maharishi and the movement.
 
 According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape -- along with the 
entire TTC catalog -- appeared mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. 
Since then the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to prove that 
the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu, agenda -- largely because 
it's one of the few times the Maharishi was captured on tape talking about 
worshipping the Vedic Gods. (Of course today, the TM movement sells Hindu 
sacrifices, yagyas or yajnas, to Ganesh, Lakshmi, and other Gods for thousands 
of dollars without batting an eye!)
 
 But the true significance of Soma and the Gods is much larger. And the 
theology that the Maharishi espouses is not Hinduism. It is much more 
idiosyncratic -- and frankly bizarre.
 
 In a nutshell, the Maharishi describes a sort of parasitic relationship 
between TMers and the Vedic Gods. TMers produce the magical chemical Soma in 
their gut -- but it isn't something they can use directly. The Vedic Gods, 
principally Indra, descend from Heaven and feed on the Soma in the TMers' 
belly. In return for this primitive relationship, the Gods grant all manner of 
boons. TMers become successful, happy, prosperous, and develop supernormal 
abilities.
 
 Unbeknownst to non-TM teachers, the entire TM program can be understood 
through this simple model.
 
 We practice yogic asanas and pranayama to clear the channels through which 
Soma will flow. We repeat the name of our own personal Ishta (God) to summon 
Him or Her. Advanced TMers practice the sidhis to stir the Soma and further 
clear channels. We read verses from the Ninth Mandala that literally invite the 
Gods by name to feast on the Soma in our belly: Flow, Soma, in a most sweet 
and exhilirating stream, effused for Indra to drink Be the lavish giver of 
wealth, most bounteous

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

That is how I have generally understood these forces of nature described in the 
Vedas. 

 I think I mentioned before, that for some reason I always associated the 
Troop of Maruts as perhaps rain bearing clouds.
 

 I would enjoy seeing connections being made.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Michael, one way I think about all this is in terms of energy, vibration, 
resonance and amplification. Indra can be thought of as the word that some 
people use to describe an energy or frequency that is all around us. A 
scientist might designate it by a certain amount of hertz or a certain light 
frequency. Something like that. 

I think that in the not too distant future, there won't be a gap between 
science and spirituality and then all these aspects of spirituality will be 
universally understood from a scientific point of view also.
 

 On Thursday, April 3, 2014 9:10 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:
 
   you are hilarious! I recall someone on the sidhi preps asked something like 
that - a nurse I think she was and the Governors said the soma would be there, 
but would be too subtle to detect with current scientific equipment.
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 1:49 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 I just found it
 interesting - as I said I think, somehow this particular
 document had escaped my attention. I was told during the
 sidhi prep courses that we produce soma in the stomach and
 only if we have soma being produced can we have experiences
 of higher states of consciousness. That's
 what the governors who taught the courses told us and those
 would be Greg Palma, Walter Gibbons and Paul Potter (for
 those here who love to have sources quoted). But nothing was
 ever said about the gods eating it and giving us blessings
 as a result.
 It would be
 logical, I would think, for the Movement to have used some
 of their science-y minded people to test the stomachs of
 meditators for this supposed soma. Not that hard to do.
 Stick a scope down there and check it out, retrieve samples.
 I am sure there would have been hundreds of eager
 participants. Surely, this is so easy to prove or disprove -
 maybe not on the presence of soma-sucking Gods - but on the
 existence of soma at least.
 
 
 
 I had no idea such a tape existed and I wanted to hear from
 the TM teachers here to see if they had seen the tape and
 what they thought of it at the time they saw it. That's
 all.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

If Unity Consciousness is a reality, if God Consiousness is reality, in my 
opinion there would be some chemical produced that would be partly responsible 
for that.  Soma sounds as good as any. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, pretty funny that in the midst of all these Soma and the Gods posts, I 
received an ad with Subject line: This stuff is God in a bottle!
 

 On Thursday, April 3, 2014 6:41 AM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
wrote:
 
   Am I missing something, because isn't that what the 10th mandala is about in 
just about every verse.  So even though it's been some 20 plus years since I 
listened to it, that's my recollection. 
 

 Evidently that is something the Vedas concern themselves with.  Do you 
consider this revelation?   I guess you do.
 

 Are you are trying to paint it as some strange ritual where people splay 
themselves out and cry, Indra, eat me, eat me!
 

 If so, I must have missed that. (-:
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I just found it interesting - as I said I think, somehow this particular 
document had escaped my attention. I was told during the sidhi prep courses 
that we produce soma in the stomach and only if we have soma being produced can 
we have experiences of higher states of consciousness. That's what the 
governors who taught the courses told us and those would be Greg Palma, Walter 
Gibbons and Paul Potter (for those here who love to have sources quoted). But 
nothing was ever said about the gods eating it and giving us blessings as a 
result.
 
 I had no idea such a tape existed and I wanted to hear from the TM teachers 
here to see if they had seen the tape and what they thought of it at the time 
they saw it. That's all.
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 3:49 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You know
 Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas,
 about the Vedic Gods.  But I don't. There are some
 who think it is all a bunch of jibberish.  I think
 Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not
 misrepresenting him.
 But I
 do generally have respect for ancient traditions.  And
 I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a
 deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show
 this as well.
 
 What
 you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being
 produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it,
 doesn't really strike me as that strange.  I think
 it's probably standard stuff in some schools of
 Hinduism.  But do you really think they needed this to
 try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM?  I mean the
 Puja could probably make that case.  And that is hardly
 hidden.
 And I
 guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or
 meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way, the
 technique has worked for many people, and still works for
 people who are just now learning it.
 And I
 believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed
 whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a
 scientific one.  Obviously the scientific approach won
 out.  But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones
 are there. On the other hand, so what.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Somehow in my
 looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys
 ever see this tape? If so what did you think of it?
 
 
 
 Soma and the Gods
 
 On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma
 and the Gods taken from testimony in the Kropinski
 trial. This videotape is one of a handful that have become
 infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is
 only shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher
 Training Course (TTC). For many years copies of this tape
 were not even allowed to enter the continental US.
 
 
 
 For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's
 OT materials, Soma and the Gods lays out the
 Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public
 is not deemed ready for by the Maharishi and the
 movement.
 
 
 
 According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape
 -- along with the entire TTC catalog -- appeared
 mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. Since then
 the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to prove
 that the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu,
 agenda -- largely because it's one of the few times the
 Maharishi was captured on tape talking about worshipping the
 Vedic Gods. (Of course today, the TM movement sells Hindu
 sacrifices, yagyas or yajnas, to Ganesh, Lakshmi, and other
 Gods for thousands of dollars without batting an eye!)
 
 
 
 But the true significance of Soma

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 you shot your erudite arguments all to hell by saying there were no grandiose 
claims - that's all TM is, is grandiose claims - spin don't have shit to do 
with it. marshy was a liar, a con artist, a Hindu fanatic and very 
superstitious.
 

 Michael, my comments were about the introductory lecture.  If you maintain 
that it contains grandiose claims, why don't you produce some evidence of that. 
It's been a long time since I gave one, but it was all pretty basic.  
 

 Probably you can't find any, and then your usual tactic is to go off point and 
find some other issue to rail against.  I believe the FFL term for that is 
changing the context.  . Like okay, maybe the introductory lecture doesn't 
make grandiose claims,but Maharishi was still a blah, blah, blah The inability 
to say on point shows a real weakness in debating an issue.  Definitely points 
off for that.
 wish to declare your usual  If you wanna argue superstition, try telling Turq 
that he didn't see M flee a room just because chairs were upended. 
 

 So what if he was superstitious, and acted irrationally sometimes.  You have a 
poor understanding of what the state of enlightenment is.  People have 
idiosyncrasies before enlightenment, and idiosyncrasies after enlightenment.  I 
am not speaking from experience, just from observation.  And of course that is 
only my opinion.
 

 But you are so hell bent on finding fault wherever you look wr to TM, that 
often whatever good points you make are clouded by your animus towards the 
organization.
 

 

 

 
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 9:10 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Michael, with
 all due respect, you are not an expert on Hinduism, or even
 superstitious Hinduism for that matter. I think we saw that
 last week.  So you have an opinion on the relationship
 of Soma and the Vedic Gods, but it is just your
 interpretation, unless you claim to be able to decipher the
 clear meaning of the Vedic verses.
 You
 probably don't know what chemicals a refined nervous
 system may create, and if they have any effect on ones
 environment, or the elements of nature, if there is such a
 thing. 
 So,
 you may choose to spin Maharishi's comments in anyway
 you choose, but the case you are making seems rather weak to
 me.  
 The
 introductory lecture for TM discusses benefits in four
 areas, if I'm not mistaken.  There is a reference
 to the tradition that it comes from.  But I don't
 think, in fact I know, there are no grandiose claims being
 made.
 I
 think sometimes your points are on target, but oftentimes
 not.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Its the ninth
 mandala actually, but it was never phrased so that I
 remember - also it is significant that M who always claimed
 publicly to offer a technique that is non-religious to
 covertly tell everyone inthe room point blank that the
 purpose of meditation is to refine the body so it produces
 soma so Indra and the other gods can have lunch on your
 nickle and they will give you rewards as a result. This is
 not just Hinduism but superstitious Hinduism. If what he was
 teaching in this tape was legit, he would never had had the
 tapes recalled. As I believe the Turq said not long ago, if
 TM was a great as they claim it is, they wouldn't have
 to lie to sell it.
 
 
 
 I am also eager to hear from any other teachers who post
 here who have seen the tape and what they thought of it at
 the time and what they think of it now, or remember when the
 word came down to give 'em back to the Movement. I think
 its a very interesting bit of Movement history.
 
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 11:41 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Am I missing
 
 something, because isn't that what the 10th mandala is
 
 about in just about every verse.  So even though
 
 it's been some 20 plus years since I listened to it,
 
 that's my recollection. 
 
 Evidently that is something the Vedas concern
 
 themselves with.  Do you consider this revelation?
 
   I guess you do.
 
 Are
 
 you are trying to paint it as some strange ritual where
 
 people splay themselves out and cry, Indra, eat me,
 
 eat me!
 
 If
 
 so, I must have missed that. (-:
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

Michael aside from the philosophical question of we are enlightened, we just 
aren't aware of it, what I am speculating is that if there are states of 
enlightenment, and I believe there are, there are likely to be unique chemicals 
that either help produce the state, or are a byproduct of it. 

 I can't say for sure, and don't really even care.  It's just a speculation on 
my part.
 

 Yesterday as I was driving, I was wondering about the thought I had as a child 
that always scared me.  what's beyond the edge of the universe.  And since 
you brought up that other point about already being enlightened, but just not 
knowing it, the mind blower for me was that it is said that at some point you 
realize that the material world is just an illusion anyway. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 that is bullshit - that means that supposed enlightenment is NOT something 
that we already are, that we just don't pay attention to - that means that it 
is dependent on a chemical.
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 9:48 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 If Unity
 Consciousness is a reality, if God Consiousness is reality,
 in my opinion there would be some chemical produced that
 would be partly responsible for that.  Soma sounds as
 good as any. 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
sharelong60@...
 wrote :
 
 Steve, pretty funny that in the midst
 of all these Soma and the Gods posts, I received an ad with
 Subject line: This stuff is God in a bottle!
 
 On Thursday, April 3, 2014 6:41 AM,
 steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
  Am I missing something,
 because isn't that what the 10th mandala is about in
 just about every verse.  So even though it's been
 some 20 plus years since I listened to it, that's my
 recollection. 
 Evidently that is something the Vedas concern
 themselves with.  Do you consider this revelation?
   I guess you do.
 Are you are trying to paint it as some strange
 ritual where people splay themselves out and cry,
 Indra, eat me, eat me!
 If so, I must have missed that. (-:
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@... wrote
 :
 
 I
 just found it interesting - as I said I think, somehow this
 particular document had escaped my attention. I was told
 during the sidhi prep courses that we produce soma in the
 stomach and only if we have soma being produced can we have
 experiences of higher states of consciousness.
 That's what the governors who taught the courses told us
 and those would be Greg Palma, Walter Gibbons and Paul
 Potter (for those here who love to have sources quoted). But
 nothing was ever said about the gods eating it and giving us
 blessings as a result.
 
 
 
 I had no idea such a tape existed and I wanted to hear from
 the TM teachers here to see if they had seen the tape and
 what they thought of it at the time they saw it. That's
 all.
 
 
 
 On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 3:49 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You know
 
 Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas,
 
 about the Vedic Gods.  But I don't. There are
 some
 
 who think it is all a bunch of jibberish.  I think
 
 Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not
 
 misrepresenting him.
 
 But I
 
 do generally have respect for ancient traditions.
  And
 
 I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and
 a
 
 deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus
 show
 
 this as well.
 
 
 
 What
 
 you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma
 being
 
 produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it,
 
 doesn't really strike me as that strange.  I
 think
 
 it's probably standard stuff in some schools of
 
 Hinduism.  But do you really think they needed this
 to
 
 try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM?  I mean
 the
 
 Puja could probably make that case.  And that is
 hardly
 
 hidden.
 
 And I
 
 guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or
 
 meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way,
 the
 
 technique has worked for many people, and still works for
 
 people who are just now learning it.
 
 And I
 
 believe at some point early in the movement it was
 discussed
 
 whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a
 
 scientific one.  Obviously the scientific approach
 won
 
 out.  But of course the Hindu, or religious
 overtones

Re: [FairfieldLife] [Fairfield] Logically Preparing

Buck, I think you should have received a standing ovation on that glorious day 
when you were readmitted to the Dome.  I know I felt a sense of pride.  It was 
as if one of our own was readmitted. (-:
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote :

 Rory is quitting, Fairfield?
 That is a shame, that he is leaving and to lose him.
 

 Meditators; it's been a long time, it's been a sacrifice at times to have been 
here. You've came bravely, proudly. You're a special group. You've found in one 
another a bond that exists possibly only in banana-gram, among brothers. You've 
shared community, held each other in dire moments. You've seen friends in their 
death here and we have all suffered together at times to be here. I'm proud to 
have meditated with each and every one of you. You all who came and joined the 
Fairfield, Iowa group meditation deserve long and happy lives in peace.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 

 

 nablusoss1008 writes:
 Rory is leaving Fairfield to live in Florida, and perhaps also the Pundits are 
leaving. The Americans better start going to the Domes asap to avert the danger 
that has not yet come.

 

 noozguru writes:
 Yeah, welcome to the mid-west, home of killer tornadoes.  Trade one disaster 
for another.  Chances of survival with an earthquake are  much higher than 
those of surviving a tornado.
 

 

 I certainly feel that as meditators you should all move to Fairfield, Iowa 
forthwith. Avert the danger before it comes. The Domes being geodesic 
structures are some of the best to withstand global changes of the scale 
evidently lining up. Maharishi consulted a lot with none other than 
Buckminister Fuller before building the Fairfield Domes. I thank the Unified 
Field that Bevan and everyone settled on these timber framed Golden Domes when 
they went looking for some domes for us “to meditate under”, as Maharishi sent 
them looking. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in the Dome
 
 
 noozguru asserts:
 
 Major quakes tend to occur by frequency.
 http://www.earthquakesafety.com/earthquake-history.html 
http://www.earthquakesafety.com/earthquake-history.html
 

 jr_esq mailto:jr_esq@... writes:

   Little shakers may be a relative term.  When the Loma Prieta earthquake 
happened in October 1989, my dad saw the walls of the house shake for about a 
minute or so.  Luckily, he was safe and the house was not damaged.
 

 At that time, I was still living in Seattle and was watching the World Series 
when the programming was interrupted due to the shaker.  But I was in Seattle 
during the big earthquake over there in 2001 (I think that was the year, as I 
recall).  I remember our office building was swaying back and forth and we were 
at the 32nd floor.  I hid underneath my desk.  Thankfully, our building did not 
sustain any damages, except for a few streaks if cracked paint in the emergency 
stair well. However, an old red brick building at the Pioneer Square sustained 
some damages.
 
 
 
 
 noozguru mailto:noozguru@... writes:
 

 I've been sayin' it  might be another 20-25 years before a big one here as the 
faults have settled for awhile.  So all we will get is a few little shakers.
 
 On 04/02/2014 12:22 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:
 
   The seismologists over have been predicting for the next BIG ONE, for 
several years now, here in San Francisco, CA.  But it hasn't happened yet.  
Now, I'm thinking of buying a piece of land near Austin, Nevada as a hedge just 
in case this prediction comes true, sooner or later.
 
 
 I was thinking that earlier in the week with all the quakes and mudslides 
going on.
 
 
 My sister lives near Frisco, she hates earthquakes, I point out that it's a 
stupid place to live in that case, she says she likes the vineyards and beaches 
too much to move..
 

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 







 noozguru mailto:noozguru@...:   Okay then, is the Ring of Fire becoming 
active?  There was an 8.2 quake off Chile and Yellowstone is beginning to have 
swarms (all bets are off if that turns into a volcano).  Better be practicing 
asanas so you can kiss your ass good-bye.
 
 
  Pundit Sir wrote:
 







  I guess you don't have a video camera or we'd have seen videos from you.
 
 Addressing the important issues!

   I guess you don't have a video camera or we'd have seen videos from you. My 
channel:
 https://www.youtube.com/user/CaptBebops 
https://www.youtube.com/user/CaptBebops 
 
 On 04/02/2014 09:45 AM, Pundit Sir wrote:


   Such as What We Did Today? 
 
 Well,I guess if you did anything worth reporting we'd have heard about it. If 
you owned a camera, I guess you'd have posted a snapshot. It's beginning to 
look like you don't get out much - I did see the photo you sent of visiting 
Starbucks one day a few months ago. Maybe you don't own a camera; maybe you 
don't know how to upload a flat file; maybe you don't have a web site; or maybe 
you live in a

[FairfieldLife] Re: PHARRELL WILLIAMS - HAPPY (INDIA)

India?  That looked like downtown Chicago.  What a crock.  You get that a lot.  
Misleading headlines, lead-ins that never materialize in the story. 

 What a shame that they try to pull that crap on people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Enjoy !
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA

[FairfieldLife] Re: PHARRELL WILLIAMS - HAPPY (INDIA)

Uh, not quite Nab.  First, I very enjoy this song, and have listened to several 
versions of it on Youtube.  I was just expecting something Indian.  I watched 
several minutes before I realized there wasn't going to be anything Indian 
about it.  But great if you enjoyed it.  

 You might have figured that some part of Indian culture would have been 
displayed.  Maybe you saw something I didn't.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 Starting unstressing before we watch the video are we ? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 India?  That looked like downtown Chicago.  What a crock.  You get that a lot. 
 Misleading headlines, lead-ins that never materialize in the story. 

 What a shame that they try to pull that crap on people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Enjoy !
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJJ8Vyv3ZA

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pharrell Williams Happy from Abu Dhabi

1% effect I guess.  1% of Abu Dhabi

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

The Judy template.  The setup that's launched a thousand arguments.  Or at 
least used to.  PTL for that. 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 No no no, Share, that isn't an answer to the question I asked. 

 If you can't or don't want to answer it, just say so. But don't pretend you 
did answer it.
 

 

 
 
 Judy, short answer: yes. 

Long answer: I had already read the wikipedia article when your post appeared. 
And I don't think anybody on the planet is fully developed.

For me, in the context of FFL, I find that I guess about how developed someone 
is by the TONE of MOST of their posts. 
 

 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:49 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   No, it doesn't. Did you not read the Wikipedia article I linked to?
 

 But my question stands even if we use your definition: Are you saying that 
being an apologist for a belief or idea that is unproveable or that other 
people think is unreasonable indicates that one is not fully developed? 

 

 
 
 Thanks, Judy, I was replying to the connotation of the word apologist as I 
interpreted it in what Michael was saying. It does seem to have had, from the 
beginning, the connotation of defending a belief or idea that is somewhat 
unreasonable and or unproveable.  
 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:13 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   Share, do you know what apologist means?
 
 Steve, since you asked me what I think (-: I think we all have apologist 
tendencies to some degree. Meaning that we all have parts of our brain that are 
still developing and maturing, are not yet fully developed.
 

 Because you seem to be saying here that being an apologist indicates that one 
is not fully developed, i.e., that apologist tendencies indicate a lack of 
maturity.
 

 You might just want to check out the actual meaning of the term:
 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Well really, Judy has a set up not unlike Byron Katie.  

  Katie's line is can you absolutely know that is true.
 

  Judy's line is always, why didn't you answer my question
 

 Maybe Judy's got something there!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Richard, imo The Corrector has gone daft! I answered yes to her question. How 
is that obfuscating?! I'm guessing that's her way of saying that she didn't 
understand what I wrote. Anyway, when she gets like this, both negative and 
nonsensical, it's pointless to continue responding to her.
 

 On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:26 AM, Pundit Sir punditster@... wrote:
 
You didn't understand the implications of your answers, Share. Your   
grasp of semantics is very poor, which is why you always try to cover 
  up your mistakes by obfuscating rather than clarifying them.

 
 The Corrector has spoken.
 

 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:36 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:
   You didn't understand the implications of your answers, Share. Your grasp of 
semantics is very poor, which is why you always try to cover up your mistakes 
by obfuscating rather than clarifying them.
 

 As I said, never mind. Once you decide to take the obfuscation route, as you 
have in this case, there's no percentage in trying to make an honest woman of 
you.
 

 

 Judy, I don't think that my long answer invalidated my short answer. My guess 
is that you didn't understand all of my answer.
 

 


 The long answer invalidated the short one as an actual response to my 
question (as you know). 

 Never mind. You got yourself in an uncomfortable position, and I know you 
better than to think you'll be willing to deal with it honestly.
 

 Judy, I did answer your question. I said yes. How is that not answering?!

 

 No no no, Share, that isn't an answer to the question I asked.

 

 If you can't or don't want to answer it, just say so. But don't pretend you 
did answer it.
 
 Judy, short answer: yes. 

Long answer: I had already read the wikipedia article when your post appeared. 
And I don't think anybody on the planet is fully developed.
 
For me, in the context of FFL, I find that I guess about how developed someone 
is by the TONE of MOST of their posts. 
 

 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:49 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   No, it doesn't. Did you not read the Wikipedia article I linked to?
 

 But my question stands even if we use your definition: Are you saying that 
being an apologist for a belief or idea that is unproveable or that other 
people think is unreasonable indicates that one is not fully developed? 

 

 
 
 Thanks, Judy, I was replying to the connotation of the word apologist as I 
interpreted it in what Michael was saying. It does seem to have had, from the 
beginning, the connotation of defending a belief or idea that is somewhat 
unreasonable and or unproveable.  
 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:13 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   Share, do you know what apologist means?
 
 Steve, since you asked me what I think (-: I think we all have apologist 
tendencies to some degree. Meaning that we all have parts of our brain that are 
still developing and maturing, are not yet fully developed.
 

 Because you seem to be saying here that being an apologist indicates that one 
is not fully developed, i.e., that apologist tendencies indicate a lack of 
maturity.
 

 You might just want to check out the actual meaning of the term:
 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

there but for the grace of.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Uh-uh-uh, Share, remember what I told you about your mind-reading ability? 
It's even worse than your grasp of semantics. And believe me, it has not 
improved since the last time I mentioned it. 

 BTW, Richard can't help you, unfortunately.
 

 And just another piece of your smarmy dishonesty: pretending you're the one 
ending the conversation, when I've already told you never mind twice (see 
below). Once you decide to leave the mess you created and take off on the 
obfuscation route, there's no longer any chance for greater clarity. It's all 
Share nonsense from then on.
 

 How do you get all the smarm out of your clothes, by the way? Does dry 
cleaning do the trick? Or do you wear a special protective outfit when you're 
writing your FFL posts?
 

 Richard, imo The Corrector has gone daft! I answered yes to her question. How 
is that obfuscating?! I'm guessing that's her way of saying that she didn't 
understand what I wrote. Anyway, when she gets like this, both negative and 
nonsensical, it's pointless to continue responding to her.
 

 On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:26 AM, Pundit Sir punditster@... wrote:
 
You didn't understand the implications of your answers, Share. Your   
grasp of semantics is very poor, which is why you always try to cover 
  up your mistakes by obfuscating rather than clarifying them.

 
 The Corrector has spoken.
 

 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:36 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:
   You didn't understand the implications of your answers, Share. Your grasp of 
semantics is very poor, which is why you always try to cover up your mistakes 
by obfuscating rather than clarifying them.
 

 As I said, never mind. Once you decide to take the obfuscation route, as you 
have in this case, there's no percentage in trying to make an honest woman of 
you.
 

 

 Judy, I don't think that my long answer invalidated my short answer. My guess 
is that you didn't understand all of my answer.
 

 


 The long answer invalidated the short one as an actual response to my 
question (as you know). 

 Never mind. You got yourself in an uncomfortable position, and I know you 
better than to think you'll be willing to deal with it honestly.
 

 Judy, I did answer your question. I said yes. How is that not answering?!

 

 No no no, Share, that isn't an answer to the question I asked.

 

 If you can't or don't want to answer it, just say so. But don't pretend you 
did answer it.
 
 Judy, short answer: yes. 

Long answer: I had already read the wikipedia article when your post appeared. 
And I don't think anybody on the planet is fully developed.
 
For me, in the context of FFL, I find that I guess about how developed someone 
is by the TONE of MOST of their posts. 
 

 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:49 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   No, it doesn't. Did you not read the Wikipedia article I linked to?
 

 But my question stands even if we use your definition: Are you saying that 
being an apologist for a belief or idea that is unproveable or that other 
people think is unreasonable indicates that one is not fully developed? 

 

 
 
 Thanks, Judy, I was replying to the connotation of the word apologist as I 
interpreted it in what Michael was saying. It does seem to have had, from the 
beginning, the connotation of defending a belief or idea that is somewhat 
unreasonable and or unproveable.  
 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:13 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   Share, do you know what apologist means?
 
 Steve, since you asked me what I think (-: I think we all have apologist 
tendencies to some degree. Meaning that we all have parts of our brain that are 
still developing and maturing, are not yet fully developed.
 

 Because you seem to be saying here that being an apologist indicates that one 
is not fully developed, i.e., that apologist tendencies indicate a lack of 
maturity.
 

 You might just want to check out the actual meaning of the term:
 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

Re: [FairfieldLife] Were you there Sal?

The Judester cracking wise.  Always nice to see.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 I don't have a link, but I read a couple of days ago that the Yellowstone 
geologists have said the swarms almost certainly do not presage a volcanic 
eruption. 

 (I know, I know, it's a conspiracy to keep the truth from us so we won't try 
to flee and will just die.)
 
 Okay then, is the Ring of Fire becoming active?  There was an 8.2 quake off 
Chile and Yellowstone is beginning to have swarms (all bets are off if that 
turns into a volcano).  Better be practicing asanas so you can kiss your ass 
good-bye.

[FairfieldLife] Re: HAPPY IN MARRAKECH

Hair trigger Nabby!  I think that's called unstressing.  Then again, maybe 
Nabs has gotten rid of all his stress. (-:
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 No one is pointing a gun to anyone's head to listen and watch happy people 
from around the world, for example one of my favorites: HAPPY IN CAMEROON:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS5lOUNii_g 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS5lOUNii_g

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 It's not grumpy, it's just a request. 

 Don't be so grumpy :-) 
 Do you think maybe you could limit these posts to, say, five a day? 

 

 

 457 with a population with more than 1,ooo,ooo, so you have something to look 
forward to :-) 
 I meant cities. Oh dear
 

 196, and thanks to the Blessings of the Masters of Wisdom all are enjoying 
rising happiness.
 
 
 Erm, how many countries are there?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAs79I258U4 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAs79I258U4

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

I have a different perception of Share than you do, and view her responses 
differently than you do. 

 (do you think you can spare me the gratuitous insult, possibly)  
 

 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 You think it's perfectly OK for someone to pretend they've answered a question 
when they actually haven't? That's your idea of integrity? 

 The Judy template.  The setup that's launched a thousand arguments.  Or at 
least used to.  PTL for that.
 

 

 
 No no no, Share, that isn't an answer to the question I asked. 

 If you can't or don't want to answer it, just say so. But don't pretend you 
did answer it.
 

 

 
 
 Judy, short answer: yes. 

Long answer: I had already read the wikipedia article when your post appeared. 
And I don't think anybody on the planet is fully developed.

For me, in the context of FFL, I find that I guess about how developed someone 
is by the TONE of MOST of their posts. 
 

 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:49 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   No, it doesn't. Did you not read the Wikipedia article I linked to?
 

 But my question stands even if we use your definition: Are you saying that 
being an apologist for a belief or idea that is unproveable or that other 
people think is unreasonable indicates that one is not fully developed? 

 

 
 
 Thanks, Judy, I was replying to the connotation of the word apologist as I 
interpreted it in what Michael was saying. It does seem to have had, from the 
beginning, the connotation of defending a belief or idea that is somewhat 
unreasonable and or unproveable.  
 

 On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:13 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   Share, do you know what apologist means?
 
 Steve, since you asked me what I think (-: I think we all have apologist 
tendencies to some degree. Meaning that we all have parts of our brain that are 
still developing and maturing, are not yet fully developed.
 

 Because you seem to be saying here that being an apologist indicates that one 
is not fully developed, i.e., that apologist tendencies indicate a lack of 
maturity.
 

 You might just want to check out the actual meaning of the term:
 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

[FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods

You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the 
Vedic Gods.  But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of 
jibberish.  I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not 
misrepresenting him. 

 But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions.  And I think most 
traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think 
the teachings of Jesus show this as well.
 

 What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the 
gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange.  I 
think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of Hinduism.  But do you 
really think they needed this to try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM?  I 
mean the Puja could probably make that case.  And that is hardly hidden.
 

 And I guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or meaningless, 
but for whatever reason, and in some way, the technique has worked for many 
people, and still works for people who are just now learning it.
 

 And I believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed whether to 
bring it out as a religious practice, or a scientific one.  Obviously the 
scientific approach won out.  But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones 
are there. On the other hand, so what.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Somehow in my looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys ever 
see this tape? If so what did you think of it?
 
 Soma and the Gods
 On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma and the Gods taken 
from testimony in the Kropinski trial. This videotape is one of a handful that 
have become infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is only 
shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher Training Course (TTC). 
For many years copies of this tape were not even allowed to enter the 
continental US.
 
 For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's OT materials, Soma and 
the Gods lays out the Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public 
is not deemed ready for by the Maharishi and the movement.
 
 According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape -- along with the 
entire TTC catalog -- appeared mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. 
Since then the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to prove that 
the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu, agenda -- largely because 
it's one of the few times the Maharishi was captured on tape talking about 
worshipping the Vedic Gods. (Of course today, the TM movement sells Hindu 
sacrifices, yagyas or yajnas, to Ganesh, Lakshmi, and other Gods for thousands 
of dollars without batting an eye!)
 
 But the true significance of Soma and the Gods is much larger. And the 
theology that the Maharishi espouses is not Hinduism. It is much more 
idiosyncratic -- and frankly bizarre.
 
 In a nutshell, the Maharishi describes a sort of parasitic relationship 
between TMers and the Vedic Gods. TMers produce the magical chemical Soma in 
their gut -- but it isn't something they can use directly. The Vedic Gods, 
principally Indra, descend from Heaven and feed on the Soma in the TMers' 
belly. In return for this primitive relationship, the Gods grant all manner of 
boons. TMers become successful, happy, prosperous, and develop supernormal 
abilities.
 
 Unbeknownst to non-TM teachers, the entire TM program can be understood 
through this simple model.
 
 We practice yogic asanas and pranayama to clear the channels through which 
Soma will flow. We repeat the name of our own personal Ishta (God) to summon 
Him or Her. Advanced TMers practice the sidhis to stir the Soma and further 
clear channels. We read verses from the Ninth Mandala that literally invite the 
Gods by name to feast on the Soma in our belly: Flow, Soma, in a most sweet 
and exhilirating stream, effused for Indra to drink Be the lavish giver of 
wealth, most bounteous, the destroyer of enemies, bestow on us the riches of 
the affluent. And we take Ayurvedic potions and pills believing we will 
produce extra or more refined soma.
 
 An anecdote from a former Maharishi International University (MIU/MUM) 
professor:
 
 When I was on MIU faculty, there was a special videotape that only faculty 
were privy to. It was the Ninth Mandala, chanted in the original Sanskrit. 
Sitting with eyes closed, listening to it was considered a great privilege and 
was highly secret.
 
 On my Governor Training Course, after we had rounded and rounded and rounded 
for three months, MMY [the Maharishi] finally called to answer our questions. I 
asked what we should expect from endlessly reading the Ninth Mandala of the Rig 
Veda and I never forgot his reply: It will become a living reality.
 
 To my knowledge, this fairly frightening vision is the Maharishi's alone.
 
 The Rig and Sama Vedas themselves describe the process of making a beverage, 
soma, by grinding and

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Yes, Barry, you list many truths here.  I think the watershed moment for Judy 
in her adult life, and possibly her whole life, was Robin's arrival on FFL.   

 No need to elaborate.  I think she make good points on occasion,but overall 
her legacy will be that as a very mean person, who evidently does not believe 
in any meaningful degree of self reflection.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 I would suggest (and in fact have done so several times) that what I and other 
people don't like about Judy Stein has pretty much *everything* to do with TM. 
And I defy her to present posts that disprove what she characterizes as my 
caricature portrayal of her. 

What is inaccurate about her stooping to grade-school levels to demonize a 
fellow TM supporter on this forum? She's been doing exactly that with Share 
since pretty much the first day Share broke away from her clique and started 
making her own decisions about who to like and who not to like on this forum. 
What is inaccurate about linking Judy's ongoing persecution of Share (literally 
*thousands* of posts by now trying to portray her as stupid and a LIAR) to 
Judy's imaginary boyfriend and cult leader Robin Carlsen? This persecution 
pretty much went into high gear when Share reacted to being tormented by Robin 
and stood up for herself. And of course this grade school behavior is not 
limited to Share -- just think of the number of insulting pet names she's 
chosen to call people over the years, from Stupid Sal to Feebs to...well, 
no need to list them...you remember them all. 

Perhaps Judy would like to post a more accurate bio of herself to give us a 
better picture of what *exactly* over 30 years of TM has done for her and the 
major accomplishments it's enabled her to make.

For example, is it NOT true that she's a 70+-year-old woman who spends the vast 
majority of her time in her posts to Fairfield Life dumping on and criticizing 
other people? Is it NOT true that she almost never posts anything original or 
creative? What have her *accomplishments* been in those 70+ years? It seems to 
me, based on what she has posted here and on other forums, that they consist of 
living in a tiny apartment above a garage in New Jersey, eking out a living 
correcting writing done by other people, while never creating any of her own 
(except for her ongoing criticisms on the Internet, of course). In all of 
that time, I don't remember her ever having mentioned doing something with her 
friends. Does she even have any? In all of that time, I don't remember her 
ever having mentioned doing anything for anyone else, other than write a check 
to a charity. She *certainly* hasn't ever taught TM, because she was so busy 
(presumably with grading papers and correcting other people on the 
Internet) that she never became a teacher. She never met Maharishi, even though 
she had decades of opportunity in which to do so. Another thing I don't think 
I've ever seen Judy deal with is what gives her the RIGHT to pick an obvious 
enemy on forums like FFL and then stalk them for months or years, claiming 
that it's all criticism and nothing more. Who ever named her an official 
critic? Maybe she'd like to explain that in the bio she's going to post now 
to set things right.

I would say that there is EVERY reason to consider the descriptions of her 
above accurate. I would further suggest that there is EVERY reason to link them 
to her TM practice. You know...the same practice that is supposed to make one 
more in tune with the laws of nature and more harmonious and such. TM is 
also supposed to make a person more happy and fulfilled, right? Is there ANYONE 
here who would describe Judy Stein -- based on her posting history here over 
the years -- as happy and fulfilled? ANYONE?
 

 One of the things that Judy might have learned if she had ever had what it 
takes to become a TM teacher and then work for peanuts trying to teach it 
full-time is that everything is Not About Her. Some of it is about helping 
other people...or at least doing what one thinks at the time might help other 
people. I defy her to post anything she has EVER done in her life that fits 
into that category. 

 

 Another thing she might have learned had she become a TM teacher is that when 
you start becoming a mouthpiece for a spiritual technique or tradition, the 
people you're preaching to trying to convince them it's of value look at YOU as 
the EXAMPLE of what you're selling. You personify what you're selling. While 
*claiming* that she's not a True Believer, Judy *consistently* makes excuses 
for the bad behavior of the TM movement here, and tries to sell it here. Why 
shouldn't the people she's trying to sell it TO judge TM's worth based on HER 
behavior?

 

 From: authfriend@... authfriend@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:30 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 
   Barry's insulting caricatures of

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Yes, one can selectively choose data that supports their beliefs, and ignore 
all the rest.  I am thinking of the many people I know who have remained steady 
in their practice, and dedicated to the organization and it's founder. 

 They are people who garner respect from society in general.  Implying they are 
cult apologists speaks only about the person making the accusation than those 
they are accusing.
 

 That's what I think. (-:
 

 Thanks for your comments. (-:
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, since you asked me what I think (-: I think we all have apologist 
tendencies to some degree. Meaning that we all have parts of our brain that are 
still developing and maturing, are not yet fully developed. Based on my own 
experience and understanding, I think TM is excellent for giving deep rest to 
the whole individual; and that the TMSP is an excellent program for fully 
developing the brain and mind body coordination. 

OTOH none of us know 100% for sure whether TM is a good thing or a bad thing. 
Bottom line, each of us must come to our own conclusions about everything. And 
then live with the consequences of holding those conclusions. It seems to be a 
big part of being human. Go figure!
 

 On Monday, March 31, 2014 9:31 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
   

 should be, you might be a cult apologist, if

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Hi Share, 

 I thought so too!  But if you're having a discussion with someone who finds 
nefarious intent in any and every action of an organization he doesn't like, 
then I guess you are cult apologist
 

 If Michael writing skills are worth much, I'd like to see a piece along the 
lines of:
 

 You know you're a TM cult apologist if:
 

 (now conjecturing about what Michael might say)
 

 If you ever gave Maharishi a flower.
 

 If you ever sang puja, and had a good feeling afterward.
 

 If you ever said Jai Guru Dev twice in one day.
 

 If you ever gave someone a lift to the dome.
 

 If you dared to suggest on a public forum that someone who posts non stop 
comments about how bad an organization is, might be just a wee bit out a whack, 
then you are a cult follower.
 

 Whaddya think!
 

 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, I really appreciate how common sensical (is that a valid phrase?) you 
are in what you say here. Especially the bit about why the TMO changed its 
approach. And of course, the directly relevant part about twenty minutes 
meditating being good for most people. 
 

 On Monday, March 31, 2014 7:08 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Oh that's good Michael.  At least a new name from the one I am usually called. 
 Or actually, you are comparing me to something, rather than declaring I am 
such and such. 

 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what if they are - distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots? Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for 
many people, and better to downplay it.
 

 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing different than has been done from 
the beginning.  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then shifted 
to a more scientific approach, because it would appeal to more people.
 

 You want to get people though the door.  You want to get them to the 
introductory lecture.  You want to outline the benefits.
 

 I happen to be able to observe some this new approach up close, and it seems 
to be having some results. That and a lower fee for learning.
 

 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly all negative) statements about 
the TMO and Maharishi. But  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate 
to whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty minutes twice a day, would, 
I think, be a healthy activity for most people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Come on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots and from Maharishi himself - if you can't see 
how disingenuous that is then you are a truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you have
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what if
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall galls
 you.  And really, I don't think you're ashamed
 to admit

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Okay, Judy, thanks for the feedback.  I will definitely take it under 
advisement.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Hey, Feebs, remember what I told you about your mind-reading abilities. Not to 
mention your serious memory problems. Those deficiencies tend to leave you 
awfully short when you attempt an evaluation of an FFL member (or an evaluation 
of an evaluation by Barry of an FFL member he doesn't like [i.e., one of his 
critics]). 

 

 Yes, Barry, you list many truths here.  I think the watershed moment for Judy 
in her adult life, and possibly her whole life, was Robin's arrival on FFL.   

 No need to elaborate.  I think she make good points on occasion,but overall 
her legacy will be that as a very mean person, who evidently does not believe 
in any meaningful degree of self reflection.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 I would suggest (and in fact have done so several times) that what I and other 
people don't like about Judy Stein has pretty much *everything* to do with TM. 
And I defy her to present posts that disprove what she characterizes as my 
caricature portrayal of her. 

What is inaccurate about her stooping to grade-school levels to demonize a 
fellow TM supporter on this forum? She's been doing exactly that with Share 
since pretty much the first day Share broke away from her clique and started 
making her own decisions about who to like and who not to like on this forum. 
What is inaccurate about linking Judy's ongoing persecution of Share (literally 
*thousands* of posts by now trying to portray her as stupid and a LIAR) to 
Judy's imaginary boyfriend and cult leader Robin Carlsen? This persecution 
pretty much went into high gear when Share reacted to being tormented by Robin 
and stood up for herself. And of course this grade school behavior is not 
limited to Share -- just think of the number of insulting pet names she's 
chosen to call people over the years, from Stupid Sal to Feebs to...well, 
no need to list them...you remember them all. 

Perhaps Judy would like to post a more accurate bio of herself to give us a 
better picture of what *exactly* over 30 years of TM has done for her and the 
major accomplishments it's enabled her to make.

For example, is it NOT true that she's a 70+-year-old woman who spends the vast 
majority of her time in her posts to Fairfield Life dumping on and criticizing 
other people? Is it NOT true that she almost never posts anything original or 
creative? What have her *accomplishments* been in those 70+ years? It seems to 
me, based on what she has posted here and on other forums, that they consist of 
living in a tiny apartment above a garage in New Jersey, eking out a living 
correcting writing done by other people, while never creating any of her own 
(except for her ongoing criticisms on the Internet, of course). In all of 
that time, I don't remember her ever having mentioned doing something with her 
friends. Does she even have any? In all of that time, I don't remember her 
ever having mentioned doing anything for anyone else, other than write a check 
to a charity. She *certainly* hasn't ever taught TM, because she was so busy 
(presumably with grading papers and correcting other people on the 
Internet) that she never became a teacher. She never met Maharishi, even though 
she had decades of opportunity in which to do so. Another thing I don't think 
I've ever seen Judy deal with is what gives her the RIGHT to pick an obvious 
enemy on forums like FFL and then stalk them for months or years, claiming 
that it's all criticism and nothing more. Who ever named her an official 
critic? Maybe she'd like to explain that in the bio she's going to post now 
to set things right.

I would say that there is EVERY reason to consider the descriptions of her 
above accurate. I would further suggest that there is EVERY reason to link them 
to her TM practice. You know...the same practice that is supposed to make one 
more in tune with the laws of nature and more harmonious and such. TM is 
also supposed to make a person more happy and fulfilled, right? Is there ANYONE 
here who would describe Judy Stein -- based on her posting history here over 
the years -- as happy and fulfilled? ANYONE?
 

 One of the things that Judy might have learned if she had ever had what it 
takes to become a TM teacher and then work for peanuts trying to teach it 
full-time is that everything is Not About Her. Some of it is about helping 
other people...or at least doing what one thinks at the time might help other 
people. I defy her to post anything she has EVER done in her life that fits 
into that category. 

 

 Another thing she might have learned had she become a TM teacher is that when 
you start becoming a mouthpiece for a spiritual technique or tradition, the 
people you're preaching to trying to convince them it's of value look at YOU as 
the EXAMPLE of what you're selling. You personify

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Michael, you've given me a laugh this morning. 

 I mean, really, you are employing third grade logic here, If you like TM and 
TMO so much, why don't you work for 'em
 

 Let me recall some phrases from my kids, when they were younger.
 

 If you like Oreos so much, why don't you marry them
 

 If you like that bike so much, why don't you marry it
 

 I'll try to reply more like an adult.
 

 I graduated from MUM, and began a different phase of my life.  My practice of 
meditation and the TMSP continued after I got married, and until our first son 
was born.  Then responsibilities of parenting took over.
 

 It may be that after the kids are grown, I may be able to get back to my 
practice in a more regular fashion.
 

 I know it is difficult for you decipher anything other than black and white wr 
to the TM program, but that is the way it's worked out for me, and many others. 
 
 Now, unfortunately, it may be useless to engage like this, since, you will 
revert to your familiar rut,apparently because of unresolved issues wr to TM, 
but putting it out there anyway.
 

 

 

 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 By talking to the people for whom it has happened, which in fact I have 
already done. I did not say that long term mediators are far more likely to 
commit suicide those are your words. 
 
 If you like TM and the TMO so much Steve, why don't you go work for 'em? If 
you as real nice and give 'em a whole bunch of money I am sure they'll assign 
Reed Martin to be your personal supervisor and he can make sure you adhere to 
all the rules and live a real shore nuff TM life. I am sure it would be Sat 
Chit Ananda. 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 
 
 
 You know
 Michael, for someone who denigrates any scientific research
 performed by the TMO, you sure have a way of trying to make
 a case on a weak set of data. Well, let's be honest.
  No data.
 I
 mean, on the one hand, you state that most people who start,
 stop soon afterward, and yet you say that the practice of TM
 can often be responsible for people committing suicide. Do I
 have that right?
 Are
 you saying the long term mediators are far more likely to
 commit suicide and have emotional problems due to their
 practice of TM, and participation in the
 TMO?
 I
 wonder how you'd go about backing that up?
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 tell that to all
 the long term meditators who have tried to commit suicide -
 tell that to the family members of those long term
 TM'ers who did commit suicide, tell that to the people
 whose lives have been ruined by their adherence to TM and
 messing around with the TMO - people who are
 mental/emotional basket cases from years of TM. They do
 exist. They are out there and I am willing to bet you know
 some of them. It is true that TM doesn't hurt some
 people, but to say that it is good for most is a flat out
 lie.
 
 
 
 The numbers have always been jimmied by the TMO and True
 Believers. Most people who are initiated stop doing TM soon
 after. 
 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, Share Long sharelong60@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com;
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 1:24 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Steve, I
 
 really appreciate how common sensical (is that a valid
 
 phrase?) you are in what you say here. Especially the bit
 
 about why the TMO changed its approach. And of course, the
 
 directly relevant part about twenty minutes meditating
 being
 
 good for most people. 
 
 
 
 On Monday, March 31,
 
 2014 7:08 PM, steve.sundur@...
 
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 steve.sundur@... wrote :
 
 
 
 Oh that's good Michael.
 
  At least a new name from the one I am usually called.
 
  Or actually, you are comparing me to something,
 
 rather than
 
 declaring I am such and such.
 
 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what
 
 if they are - distancing themselves from the Hindu roots?
 
 Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for many people,
 
 and better to downplay it.
 
 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing
 
 different than has been done from the beginning.
 
  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then
 
 shifted to a more scientific approach, because it would
 
 appeal

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Venture Fund

Hey Michael, 

 Quite a spiel, and pretty one sided to boot.
 

 Since you mentioned Reed Martin and my incident with him at Livingston Manor, 
really I didn't recall him so much as arrogant, as a little misguided.  And I 
didn't come away feeling any resentment.  It was as though nature was pushing 
me to go in another direction. (please excuse the TM speak, but that's the best 
I can describe it)
 

 On the other hand, some of the others you've mentioned I'd sort of have to 
agree with your assessment.
 

 Now, on the other hand, in any endeavor, or organization, you are going to see 
quite a range of personality traits.  But all those people have chosen to be on 
this path, for whatever reason.  The people that I've chosen to associate with 
on this path exhibit traits quite a bit different than those in the examples 
you point out. 
 

 You will say, proves my point.  asses before TM, asses after TM.  But there 
are no guarantees in the enlightenment game.  Without a degree, (actually heavy 
dose) of self reflection, you are not going to progress much, or at least very 
quickly, IMO.
 

 But you are happy to indict the whole organization on this basis.  And you are 
claiming the organization makes exaggerated claims that others readily buy 
into.  I think you are painting a pretty inaccurate picture. 
 

 And of course, the card you love to play is to any one who disagrees with you, 
is a cult apologist.  Perhaps you don't realize what trait you are revealing 
when you repeatedly do that.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 that shouldn't have a single thing to do with people who do TM - the PR on TM 
is that it improves life on ALL levels - mental, physical, emotional, 
relationships and the implication is made that money issues will disappear with 
the improved all around functioning of the individual brought on by regular TM 
and TMSP practice and is flat out stated that money problems will go away if 
one has MAHARISHI yagyas and lives in a MAHARISHI vastu designed house. 
 
 yet the evidence is undeniable that TM'ers do unfortunate things such as 
commit suicide and do bad things like rape, robbery, professors who target 
students for sex (that's right I'm talking 'bout John Hagelin) commit fraud 
(like Beckley) - you yourself David have complained loudly and often about the 
behavior of Bevan Morris whose draconian methods of control according to you 
have kept Dome numbers low.
 
 You can't accept that the long term meditators can have anything wrong with 
them that can be attributed to the practice itself, so you have to lay it off 
on factors that, by the TMO's own PR should have been eliminated with TM and 
its adjunct programs. Yet you continue to excuse TM and the TMO and say there 
are mitigating factors. If its upbringing, the practice of TM corrects those 
factors, that's what the TMO says.
 
 So how do these behaviors manifest in a long term TM'er? Those more 
esoterically minded lay it off on personal karma yet we have been told by the 
Grand Liar Marshy that TM practice releases karma. Look, either TM works AS 
ADVERTISED or it doesn't. And it is obvious that it doesn't. So you have to 
make excuses. I have always acknowledged that TM is an enjoyable practice for 
some people and some people are very decent folks whom I have known who are 
True Blue Believers, but not because they do TM. As to TM teachers, its the 
same thing. If they would have been decent people without TM, they are with TM 
and if they are asses without TM, they will be asses with TM. 
 
 One example is John Briganti, used to teach in Charleston SC - I have not seen 
him in many years, but when I first met him on the first residence course I 
ever took, he was a down to earth very decent man who did not give bullshit 
answers to questions nor always take the TM party line and he treated everyone 
he met with courtesy and respect. Gene Speigel who was in charge of the Atlanta 
TM Center when it was the Area Capitol in charge of the TM Centers in several 
South Eastern states and who taught my third residence course was an arrogant, 
abrasive, abusive sorry son of a bitch and while I have not seen him in years 
either, I bet he still is - has nothing to do with TM either way. Except for 
one thing:
 
 It sure seems that those who are natural sons of bitches like Gene Speigel, 
Chris Crowell, Susan Humphries, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bevan Moriss, that 
arrogant ass Neil Patterson, Bill Sands, Reed Martin ('member him Steve? The 
one who kept you from going to Zambia?) remain natural sons of bitches and 
those who are naturally nice people remain nice people - TM makes no dent in 
one's personality whatsoever with one odd exception and that is much like Nazi 
Germany, those who were most like the leader -arrogant, abusive, elitist seem 
to rise to the top levels of the TMO - must be collective karma.
 
 Bottom line is TM and TMSP is a nice thing that makes some people feel nice 
inside

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Funny Michael.  Your attachment runs deep.  Deeper than any TBer I know.   

 It does work both ways doesn't it?  Loving something with a passion, or hating 
the same thing with a passion?
 

 I wonder if you end up in the same place??
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 By talking to the people for whom it has happened, which in fact I have 
already done. I did not say that long term mediators are far more likely to 
commit suicide those are your words. 
 
 If you like TM and the TMO so much Steve, why don't you go work for 'em? If 
you as real nice and give 'em a whole bunch of money I am sure they'll assign 
Reed Martin to be your personal supervisor and he can make sure you adhere to 
all the rules and live a real shore nuff TM life. I am sure it would be Sat 
Chit Ananda. 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 
 
 
 You know
 Michael, for someone who denigrates any scientific research
 performed by the TMO, you sure have a way of trying to make
 a case on a weak set of data. Well, let's be honest.
  No data.
 I
 mean, on the one hand, you state that most people who start,
 stop soon afterward, and yet you say that the practice of TM
 can often be responsible for people committing suicide. Do I
 have that right?
 Are
 you saying the long term mediators are far more likely to
 commit suicide and have emotional problems due to their
 practice of TM, and participation in the
 TMO?
 I
 wonder how you'd go about backing that up?
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 tell that to all
 the long term meditators who have tried to commit suicide -
 tell that to the family members of those long term
 TM'ers who did commit suicide, tell that to the people
 whose lives have been ruined by their adherence to TM and
 messing around with the TMO - people who are
 mental/emotional basket cases from years of TM. They do
 exist. They are out there and I am willing to bet you know
 some of them. It is true that TM doesn't hurt some
 people, but to say that it is good for most is a flat out
 lie.
 
 
 
 The numbers have always been jimmied by the TMO and True
 Believers. Most people who are initiated stop doing TM soon
 after. 
 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, Share Long sharelong60@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com;
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 1:24 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Steve, I
 
 really appreciate how common sensical (is that a valid
 
 phrase?) you are in what you say here. Especially the bit
 
 about why the TMO changed its approach. And of course, the
 
 directly relevant part about twenty minutes meditating
 being
 
 good for most people. 
 
 
 
 On Monday, March 31,
 
 2014 7:08 PM, steve.sundur@...
 
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 steve.sundur@... wrote :
 
 
 
 Oh that's good Michael.
 
  At least a new name from the one I am usually called.
 
  Or actually, you are comparing me to something,
 
 rather than
 
 declaring I am such and such.
 
 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what
 
 if they are - distancing themselves from the Hindu roots?
 
 Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for many people,
 
 and better to downplay it.
 
 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing
 
 different than has been done from the beginning.
 
  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then
 
 shifted to a more scientific approach, because it would
 
 appeal to more people.
 
 You want to get people though the door.  You
 
 want to get them to the introductory lecture.  You
 want
 
 to outline the benefits.
 
 I happen to be able to observe some this new
 
 approach up close, and it seems to be having some results.
 
 That and a lower fee for learning.
 
 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly
 
 all negative) statements about the TMO and Maharishi. But
 
  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate to
 
 whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty
 
 minutes twice a day, would, I think, be a healthy activity
 
 for most people.
 
 
 
 ---In
 
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote
 
 :
 
 
 
 Come
 
 on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are
 
 distancing themselves from the Hindu roots and from
 
 Maharishi himself

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Michael,  it apparently doesn't take long for you to get fixated on something. 

 But I do get a chuckle out of it.
 

 So thanks for that!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Reed Martin is waiting
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 2:20 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Michael,
 you've given me a laugh this morning.
 I
 mean, really, you are employing third grade logic here,
 If you like TM and TMO so much, why don't you work
 for 'em
 Let
 me recall some phrases from my kids, when they were
 younger.
 If you like Oreos so much, why don't you
 marry them
 If you like that bike so much, why don't
 you marry it
 I'll try to reply more like an
 adult.
 I
 graduated from MUM, and began a different phase of my life.
  My practice of meditation and the TMSP continued after
 I got married, and until our first son was born.  Then
 responsibilities of parenting took
 over.
 It
 may be that after the kids are grown, I may be able to get
 back to my practice in a more regular
 fashion.
 I
 know it is difficult for you decipher anything other than
 black and white wr to the TM program, but that is the way
 it's worked out for me, and many others.
  Now, unfortunately, it may be useless to engage like
 this, since, you will revert to your familiar rut,apparently
 because of unresolved issues wr to TM, but putting it out
 there anyway.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 By talking to the
 people for whom it has happened, which in fact I have
 already done. I did not say that long term mediators
 are far more likely to commit suicide those are your
 words. 
 
 
 
 If you like TM and the TMO so much Steve, why don't you
 go work for 'em? If you as real nice and give 'em a
 whole bunch of money I am sure they'll assign Reed
 Martin to be your personal supervisor and he can make sure
 you adhere to all the rules and live a real shore nuff TM
 life. I am sure it would be Sat Chit Ananda. 
 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 
 
 
 
 
 
 You know
 
 Michael, for someone who denigrates any scientific research
 
 performed by the TMO, you sure have a way of trying to make
 
 a case on a weak set of data. Well, let's be honest.
 
  No data.
 
 I
 
 mean, on the one hand, you state that most people who
 start,
 
 stop soon afterward, and yet you say that the practice of
 TM
 
 can often be responsible for people committing suicide. Do
 I
 
 have that right?
 
 Are
 
 you saying the long term mediators are far more likely to
 
 commit suicide and have emotional problems due to their
 
 practice of TM, and participation in the
 
 TMO?
 
 I
 
 wonder how you'd go about backing that up?
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 tell that to all
 
 the long term meditators who have tried to commit suicide -
 
 tell that to the family members of those long term
 
 TM'ers who did commit suicide, tell that to the people
 
 whose lives have been ruined by their adherence to TM and
 
 messing around with the TMO - people who are
 
 mental/emotional basket cases from years of TM. They do
 
 exist. They are out there and I am willing to bet you know
 
 some of them. It is true that TM doesn't hurt some
 
 people, but to say that it is good for most is a flat out
 
 lie.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The numbers have always been jimmied by the TMO and True
 
 Believers. Most people who are initiated stop doing TM soon
 
 after. 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, Share Long sharelong60@...
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com;
 
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 
 
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 1:24 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Steve, I
 
 
 
 really appreciate how common sensical (is that a valid
 
 
 
 phrase?) you are in what you say here. Especially the bit
 
 
 
 about why the TMO changed its approach. And of course, the
 
 
 
 directly relevant part about twenty minutes meditating
 
 being
 
 
 
 good for most people. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Monday, March 31

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Uh, psst, Michael, point of order.  It's not the getting angry that's laudable. 
 Jesus no.  It's making a case based on facts, or at least balanced opinion. 

 Ok, that's enough lesson for today.  Maybe tomorrow, we can cover, How to Go 
About Building Your Case
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 And yet were I to aim this anger at a corrupt government or a corrupt 
corporation like Monsanto you would applaud me. You deal with your TM past as 
you like and I'll deal with mine as I see fit. I didn't ask you for advice as 
to how to live my life and I am not gonna offer you any, unless you would like 
to take a spoonful of your own suggested medicine and deal with your anger 
toward Barry rather than continue to revile him, otherwise you won't as you 
say,  be able to move on and forget about it all.
 
 After all, if your unsolicited advice is good for the gander, its bound to be 
good for the goose too. 
 
 
 Here is
 what I think. I think anyone who is bitterly disappointed
 about something is someone who fell lock, stock and barrel
 for something - whether it be a risky investment, the
 promises of a lover or the teachings of a guru. I think
 bitterness follows upon gullibility. I also think those who
 blame somebody or something to the degree to
 which you blame MMY and the Movement is someone who had
 stars in their eyes and was naive. I like you Michael but
 you need to take some responsibility for what you feel and
 why you feel it when it comes to TM. You should have been
 more objective, less idealistic and less naive and if so you
 may have been able to let it all go by now. Until you take
 responsibility for your own part in how much of the TM
 propaganda you swallowed you won't be able to move on
 and forget about it all.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

and nothing but net!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 One account - multiple aliases. No moderators. Who cares?
 

 On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 12:18 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
   

 Why has Willytex got more than one account? Isn't it bad enough we got 200 
posts a week from him anyway?
 
Time for some moderation.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
punditster@... wrote :
 
 Apparently Judy is able to read some Latin, but not much Spanish; and she 
cannot read one single word of Tibetan. LoL!

 

 On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... 
mailto:sharelong60@... wrote:

   
 Judy, it was a joke about your use of the word snicker. I'm sure you know lots 
of Latin. About joke:
 Latin jocus; perhaps akin to Old High German gehan to say, Sanskrit yācati he 
asks
 
 

 On Monday, March 31, 2014 9:44 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@...; 
authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:

   Hey, Share, why don't you just make up some stuff out of thin air and 
pretend you're actually saying something meaningful? I guess that's the only 
way you can convince yourself you look smart.
 

 (BTW, apparently you aren't aware of this, but it's very difficult to speak 
English without knowing any words that are derived from Latin.)
 

 And you know what? Richard is just as happy to lie to you as to anybody else 
on FFL.
 
 
 

 Ok, Richard, that's funny about running joke. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, it 
appears that Judy doesn't know any words that are derived from Latin. Go figure!
 

 On Monday, March 31, 2014 9:23 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... wrote:

   
 On 3/30/2014 4:19 PM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:

 Still at it...snicker
 
 Apparently Judy has never seen an episode of Dr. Who - if she had, she would 
know that Dr. Who is constantly running to get to into tardy TARDIS. Yes, it's 
kind of a running joke. LoL!
 
 

 Richard, I was wondering if that's a running joke in the show, which I've 
never seen. I think that would be pretty funny to have a time machine that's 
always tardy. Like, you ask to be sent to 1750 and instead you get sent to 
1790. Thanks, always fun to learn the Latin too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Well, I feel some measure of relief now.  At least I can put your fixation with 
Reed Martin into some kind of perspective.  It resonates with your experience 
to some extent.  And you related your experience in a raw honest fashion.  Yes, 
when Reed told me I was not cleared for Zambia, I also panicked.  I also had to 
suddenly find a way home, with no ready cash.  I've told that story several 
times of how I ended up stranded in NYC for a night. 

 And yes, for me it was the beginning of the end, at least in terms of my most 
active involvement.  
 

 But I guess I was fortunate in that the positives for me far outweighed the 
minuses.
 

 And how we treat people will definitely come back to us at some point.  You 
have certainly made sure of that in your endless campaign to damage the TMO, or 
expose it, as you might say.
 

 Perhaps you may feel at some point it is better to focus your energies in a 
different, dare I say positive direction.  But it seems like this present 
course of action has a ways to go.
 

 Sorry if this sounds like preaching.  Your story did sadden me.  And yet it 
seemed destined to end the way it did.  I think the final chapter, of how you 
were asked to leave could have been handled much better.  But I think that 
would have just been a matter of degrees.  The die was cast.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Michael,  it apparently doesn't take long for you to get fixated on something. 

 But I do get a chuckle out of it.
 

 So thanks for that!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Reed Martin is waiting
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 2:20 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Michael,
 you've given me a laugh this morning.
 I
 mean, really, you are employing third grade logic here,
 If you like TM and TMO so much, why don't you work
 for 'em
 Let
 me recall some phrases from my kids, when they were
 younger.
 If you like Oreos so much, why don't you
 marry them
 If you like that bike so much, why don't
 you marry it
 I'll try to reply more like an
 adult.
 I
 graduated from MUM, and began a different phase of my life.
  My practice of meditation and the TMSP continued after
 I got married, and until our first son was born.  Then
 responsibilities of parenting took
 over.
 It
 may be that after the kids are grown, I may be able to get
 back to my practice in a more regular
 fashion.
 I
 know it is difficult for you decipher anything other than
 black and white wr to the TM program, but that is the way
 it's worked out for me, and many others.
  Now, unfortunately, it may be useless to engage like
 this, since, you will revert to your familiar rut,apparently
 because of unresolved issues wr to TM, but putting it out
 there anyway.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 By talking to the
 people for whom it has happened, which in fact I have
 already done. I did not say that long term mediators
 are far more likely to commit suicide those are your
 words. 
 
 
 
 If you like TM and the TMO so much Steve, why don't you
 go work for 'em? If you as real nice and give 'em a
 whole bunch of money I am sure they'll assign Reed
 Martin to be your personal supervisor and he can make sure
 you adhere to all the rules and live a real shore nuff TM
 life. I am sure it would be Sat Chit Ananda. 
 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 
 
 
 
 
 
 You know
 
 Michael, for someone who denigrates any scientific research
 
 performed by the TMO, you sure have a way of trying to make
 
 a case on a weak set of data. Well, let's be honest.
 
  No data.
 
 I
 
 mean, on the one hand, you state that most people who
 start,
 
 stop soon afterward, and yet you say that the practice of
 TM
 
 can often be responsible for people committing suicide. Do
 I
 
 have that right?
 
 Are
 
 you saying the long term mediators are far more likely to
 
 commit suicide and have emotional problems due to their
 
 practice of TM, and participation in the
 
 TMO?
 
 I
 
 wonder how you'd go about backing that up?
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 tell that to all
 
 the long term meditators who have tried to commit suicide -
 
 tell that to the family members of those long term
 
 TM'ers who did commit suicide, tell that to the people
 
 whose lives have been ruined

Re: [FairfieldLife] Microbes exterminate life on Earth!

I gotta finally come out and say it. Your posts have really been fun to read
over the last few months.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

We're starting an new TV series called Pattern Masters.

On 04/01/2014 04:36 PM, Pundit Sir wrote:

It's all a matter of positioning and placement within the pattern.

On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Share Long sharelong60@...
mailto:sharelong60@... wrote:
Ok, noozguru, imho, this is Post of the Month. Whoops, April 1! Ok, how
about Post of the Season? Post of Last Month? Anyway, I like it and think it
would be a great bumper sticker: Enjoy your pattern while you can. I shall,
Oprah or no Oprah (-:

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:09 PM, Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@...
wrote:

Life is nothing but a pattern that occurs throughout planets in the universe
when conditions are right. You are nothing but a pattern Pundito. Enjoy your
pattern while you can.

On 04/01/2014 09:30 AM, Pundit Sir wrote:

OMG We are all going to die!

On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@...
wrote:

Well, you know what they say: shit happens!

On 04/01/2014 04:46 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

Date:
March31, 2014
Source:
MassachusettsInstitute of Technology
Summary:
Methane-producing microbes may be responsible for the largest mass extinction
in Earth's history. Fossil remains show that sometime around 252 million years
ago, about 90 percent of all species on Earth were suddenly wiped out -- by far
the largest of this planet's five known mass extinctions. It turns out that
Methanosarcina had acquired a particularly fast means of making methane, and
the team's detailed mapping of the organism's history now shows that this
transfer happened at about the time of the end-Permian extinction.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140331153608.htm?utm_source=feedburneramp;utm_medium=feedamp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ftop_news%2Ftop_science+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Top+Science+News%29amp;utm_content=FaceBook

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140331153608.htm?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ftop_news%2Ftop_science+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Top+Science+News%29utm_content=FaceBook

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What We Did Today


 I think that's called Apple's Law, or is it call Job's Law.  I can't remember.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 Here's what I don't understand. Why do they need fourteen geniuses at the 
Apple Store to explain how to work Apple products?
 

 Because for every genius there are 30 idiots.
 

  Why can't the geniuses just make a product that's easy and simple to operate, 
FROM THE START?
 

 On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... 
mailto:punditster@... wrote:
 On 3/30/2014 2:02 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote:
 You are right!
 
 So, we are agreed - at the Apple Store is a Genius Bar and most Apple Stores 
are in malls like the Mall of the Americas. We went there.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For Richard, What I Did Today

Thanks Share. Yes there was not a single evergreen tree yesterday. And we
have a big oak tree in our backyard, just bare. But now begins that ever so
gradual transformation where a little green starts to appear, and before you
know it, voila!

It seems like the urban sprawl has reversed in the last few years and so
people are moving back into the city, and with that, businesses to serve them.

I'm looking forward to being more active,and taking more walks.

I hope you have a nice week as well!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

Steve, I know what you mean about how beautiful sparse foliage can be,
especially at this time of year when the buds on trees are just coming out.
Sublime! Plus, how great that you all now have a good food store within walking
distance. I've noticed, now that the ice and snow are gone, that even a few
little walks each day makes a good difference in how I feel. Hope you have a
good week and thanks for the beautiful pictures.

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:29 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
wrote:

You are right about that. There was no foliage. That was nice in it's own
way. Yes, my wife made a nice meal afterwards. And this new grocery store
opened nearby a couple months ago, so I decided to talk a walk there after
dinner. Problem is, I thought I knew exactly where it was, but didn't, so
walked quite a bit out of my way. She came and picked me up.

But I think we will try to make this into a regular walk where we can pick up
some food items.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

We took a hike here today.

https://www.google.com/maps/preview/uv?hl=enpb=!1s0x87d9295fc26706db:0x37aff25dd206887a!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttp://www.panoramio.com/photo/85510880!5srockwoods+reservation+hiking+trails+-+Google+Searchsa=Xei=stg4U__IEuHIsAT8zICIAgved=0CIsBEKIqMAo

And then took a walk here a little while ago.

http://www.fieldsfoods.com/ http://www.fieldsfoods.com/

Beautiful although I suspect the foliage is a little more sparse at this time
of year. Did you follow this exploration with a hearty meal?

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Now that was a good catch Judy.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Er, Michael, more likely the New Age got It's all the Self from TM. The Self 
has always been a TM thing. It's what you're said to experience when you 
transcend, remember? Boy, you are really out in left field here. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Oh my God! Its happening - pulling away from its Hindu and then it's all 
science roots and tapping into the vague New Age it's all the Self hoodoo! 
These TM'ers are SHAMELESS in selling the nostrums.
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 9:18 AM

 http://www.experiencetheself.org/ http://www.experiencetheself.org/

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

You''ve always got it figured out Michael.  Doesn't matter how many twists and 
turns you have to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what if the TMO 
has adjusted their message, or their pitch?  That's what organizations do.  
Maybe the problem you're having is that they seem to be having some success.  
Let's face it, that's wall galls you.  And really, I don't think you're ashamed 
to admit it.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 You are both full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier of 
customers and they are doing it in part to distance themselves from the Old 
Goat because they know he has become a liability. I know what you are saying, 
as to M's references to the Self, but they have never done an ad campaign like 
this - everything they do is a calculated move to gain adherents, money and 
like the idiots they are, create a vedic society. 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 12:19 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Now that was
 a good catch Judy.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
authfriend@...
 wrote :
 
 Er, Michael,
 more likely the New Age got It's all the
 Self from TM. The Self has always been a TM thing.
 It's what you're said to experience when you
 transcend, remember? Boy, you are really out in
 left field here.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Oh
 my God! Its happening - pulling away from its Hindu and then
 it's all science roots and tapping into the
 vague New Age it's all the Self
 hoodoo! These TM'ers are SHAMELESS in selling the
 nostrums.
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14,
 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 9:18 AM
 
 
 http://www.experiencetheself.org/ http://www.experiencetheself.org/

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Michael, 

 You've been in this rut so long, I imagine it looks normal to you.  But to an 
outsider observer, it looks like there is no one as concerned with the TMO as 
you.  Not Bevan, not Hagelin, not Neal Patterson, not even Barry!
 

 Really, go figure.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 only the ones who can still think for themselves - and you are as usual 
incorrect - Marshy's focus was on making money, being put on a pedestal as the 
savior of mankind, trying to create a mythical vedic society that never 
existed with himself as the number one vedic god-man in the flesh, and getting 
laid when he was young enough to do so. He was a liar, a con artist and a 
fraud, the proverbial flim flam man.
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 1:53 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The MJ is so mentally vacant as to miss
 that the central point of Maharishi always was the Self. Yet
 in his foolishness he seems to believe that someone here
 actually takes his posts serious. 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
authfriend@...
 wrote :
 
 No kidding. Let's see if he
 can acknowledge his error. (He probably didn't even look
 at the Web site to see what it was all
 about.)
 
 The MJ-fellow
 seems to have forgotten what Maharishi's central theme
 was from day 1 :-)
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@... wrote
 :
 Oh
 my God! Its happening - pulling away from its Hindu and then
 it's all science roots and tapping into the
 vague New Age it's all the Self
 hoodoo! These TM'ers are SHAMELESS in selling the
 nostrums.
 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 9:18 AM
 
 
 http://www.experiencetheself.org/ http://www.experiencetheself.org/

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Oh that's good Michael.  At least a new name from the one I am usually called.  
Or actually, you are comparing me to something, rather declaring I am such and 
such. 

 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what if they are - distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots? Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for 
many people, and better to downplay it.
 

 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing different than has been done from 
the beginning.  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then shifted 
to a more scientific approach, because it would appeal to more people.
 

 You want to get people though the door.  You want to get them to the 
introductory lecture.  You want to outline the benefits.
 

 I happen to be able to observe some this new approach up close, and it seems 
to be having some results. That and a lower fee for learning.
 

 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly all negative) statements about 
the TMO and Maharishi. But  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate 
to whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty minutes twice a day, would, 
I think, be a healthy activity for most people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Come on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots and from Maharishi himself - if you can't see 
how disingenuous that is then you are a truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you have
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what if
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall galls
 you.  And really, I don't think you're ashamed
 to admit it.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 You are both
 full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier of
 customers and they are doing it in part to distance
 themselves from the Old Goat because they know he has become
 a liability. I know what you are saying, as to M's
 references to the Self, but they have never done an ad
 campaign like this - everything they do is a calculated move
 to gain adherents, money and like the idiots they are,
 create a vedic society. 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 12:19 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Now that was
 
 a good catch Judy.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 authfriend@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 Er, Michael,
 
 more likely the New Age got It's all the
 
 Self from TM. The Self has always been a TM thing.
 
 It's what you're said to experience when you
 
 transcend, remember? Boy, you are really out in
 
 left field here.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 Oh
 
 my God! Its happening - pulling away from its Hindu and
 then
 
 it's all science roots and tapping into the
 
 vague New Age it's all the Self
 
 hoodoo! These TM'ers are SHAMELESS in selling the
 
 nostrums.
 
 
 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14,
 
 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 9:18 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 http://www.experiencetheself.org/ http://www.experiencetheself.org/

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Oh that's good Michael.  At least a new name from the one I am usually called. 
 Or actually, you are comparing me to something, rather than declaring I am 
such and such. 

 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what if they are - distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots? Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for 
many people, and better to downplay it.
 

 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing different than has been done from 
the beginning.  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then shifted 
to a more scientific approach, because it would appeal to more people.
 

 You want to get people though the door.  You want to get them to the 
introductory lecture.  You want to outline the benefits.
 

 I happen to be able to observe some this new approach up close, and it seems 
to be having some results. That and a lower fee for learning.
 

 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly all negative) statements about 
the TMO and Maharishi. But  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate 
to whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty minutes twice a day, would, 
I think, be a healthy activity for most people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Come on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots and from Maharishi himself - if you can't see 
how disingenuous that is then you are a truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you have
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what if
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall galls
 you.  And really, I don't think you're ashamed
 to admit it.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 You are both
 full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier of
 customers and they are doing it in part to distance
 themselves from the Old Goat because they know he has become
 a liability. I know what you are saying, as to M's
 references to the Self, but they have never done an ad
 campaign like this - everything they do is a calculated move
 to gain adherents, money and like the idiots they are,
 create a vedic society. 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 12:19 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Now that was
 
 a good catch Judy.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 authfriend@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 Er, Michael,
 
 more likely the New Age got It's all the
 
 Self from TM. The Self has always been a TM thing.
 
 It's what you're said to experience when you
 
 transcend, remember? Boy, you are really out in
 
 left field here.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 Oh
 
 my God! Its happening - pulling away from its Hindu and
 then
 
 it's all science roots and tapping into the
 
 vague New Age it's all the Self
 
 hoodoo! These TM'ers are SHAMELESS in selling the
 
 nostrums.
 
 
 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14,
 
 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 9:18 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 http://www.experiencetheself.org/ http://www.experiencetheself.org/

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield


 sure Michael, gotcha.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 as all cult apologists do, you are making excuses, the same behavior that 
leads people who want awfully much to believe that Marshy was a lifelong 
celibate to say, when they have the evidence of his sexual dalliances shoved in 
their faces reply Oh, well it makes him more human in my eyes! or Well he's 
enlightened and you can't judge an enlightened man. and my favorite - It must 
be something subtle...
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 12:02 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Oh that's
 good Michael.  At least a new name from the one I am
 usually called.  Or actually, you are comparing me to
 something, rather declaring I am such and
 such.
 At
 any rate, regarding this new approach, so what if they are -
 distancing themselves from the Hindu roots? Maybe they feel
 that has been off-putting for many people, and better to
 downplay it.
 But
 as has been pointed out, that is nothing different than has
 been done from the beginning.  Maharishi started with a
 spiritual approach, and then shifted to a more scientific
 approach, because it would appeal to more
 people.
 You
 want to get people though the door.  You want to get
 them to the introductory lecture.  You want to outline
 the benefits.
 I
 happen to be able to observe some this new approach up
 close, and it seems to be having some results. That and a
 lower fee for learning.
 You
 are more comfortable making blanket (mostly all negative)
 statements about the TMO and Maharishi. But  like many
 endeavors, you can choose to participate to whatever degree
 you like.  Meditating for twenty minutes twice a day,
 would, I think, be a healthy activity for most
 people.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 Come on Steve, be
 real - you know damn good and well they are distancing
 themselves from the Hindu roots and from Maharishi himself -
 if you can't see how disingenuous that is then you are a
 truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
 
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you have
 
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what
 if
 
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
 
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall
 galls
 
 you.  And really, I don't think you're ashamed
 
 to admit it.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 You are both
 
 full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier
 of
 
 customers and they are doing it in part to distance
 
 themselves from the Old Goat because they know he has
 become
 
 a liability. I know what you are saying, as to M's
 
 references to the Self, but they have never done an ad
 
 campaign like this - everything they do is a calculated
 move
 
 to gain adherents, money and like the idiots they are,
 
 create a vedic society. 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@...
 
 steve.sundur@...
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 12:19 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Now that was
 
 
 
 a good catch Judy.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 authfriend@...
 
 
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Er, Michael,
 
 
 
 more likely the New Age got It's all the
 
 
 
 Self from TM. The Self has always been a TM thing.
 
 
 
 It's what you're said to experience when you
 
 
 
 transcend, remember? Boy, you are really out in
 
 
 
 left field here.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 mjackson74@...
 
 
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Oh
 
 
 
 my God! Its happening - pulling away from its Hindu and
 
 then
 
 
 
 it's all science roots and tapping

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Hi Share, 

 I thought so too!  But if you're having a discussion with someone who finds 
nefarious intent in any and every action of an organization he doesn't like, 
then I guess you are cult apologist
 

 If Michael writing skills are worth much, I'd like to see a piece along the 
lines of:
 

 You know you're a TM cult apologist if:
 

 (now conjecturing about what Michael might say)
 

 If you ever gave Maharishi a flower.
 

 If you ever sang puja, and had a good feeling afterward.
 

 If you ever said Jai Guru Dev twice in one day.
 

 If you ever gave someone a lift to the dome.
 

 If you dared to suggest on a public forum that someone who posts non stop 
comments about how bad an organization is, might be just a wee bit out a whack, 
then you are a cult follower.
 

 Whaddya think!
 

 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, I really appreciate how common sensical (is that a valid phrase?) you 
are in what you say here. Especially the bit about why the TMO changed its 
approach. And of course, the directly relevant part about twenty minutes 
meditating being good for most people. 
 

 On Monday, March 31, 2014 7:08 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Oh that's good Michael.  At least a new name from the one I am usually called. 
 Or actually, you are comparing me to something, rather than declaring I am 
such and such. 

 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what if they are - distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots? Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for 
many people, and better to downplay it.
 

 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing different than has been done from 
the beginning.  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then shifted 
to a more scientific approach, because it would appeal to more people.
 

 You want to get people though the door.  You want to get them to the 
introductory lecture.  You want to outline the benefits.
 

 I happen to be able to observe some this new approach up close, and it seems 
to be having some results. That and a lower fee for learning.
 

 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly all negative) statements about 
the TMO and Maharishi. But  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate 
to whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty minutes twice a day, would, 
I think, be a healthy activity for most people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Come on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots and from Maharishi himself - if you can't see 
how disingenuous that is then you are a truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you have
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what if
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall galls
 you.  And really, I don't think you're ashamed
 to admit it.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 You are both
 full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier of
 customers and they are doing it in part to distance
 themselves from the Old Goat because they know he has become
 a liability. I know what you are saying, as to M's
 references to the Self, but they have never done an ad
 campaign like this - everything they do is a calculated move
 to gain adherents, money and like the idiots they are,
 create a vedic society. 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 12:19 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Now that was
 
 a good catch Judy.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 authfriend@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 Er, Michael,
 
 more likely the New Age got It's all the
 
 Self from TM. The Self has always been a TM thing.
 
 It's what you're said to experience when you
 
 transcend, remember? Boy, you are really out in
 
 left field here.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 Oh
 
 my

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

You know Michael, for someone who denigrates any scientific research performed 
by the TMO, you sure have a way of trying to make a case on a weak set of data. 
Well, let's be honest.  No data. 

 I mean, on the one hand, you state that most people who start, stop soon 
afterward, and yet you say that the practice of TM can often be responsible for 
people committing suicide. Do I have that right?
 

 Are you saying the long term mediators are far more likely to commit suicide 
and have emotional problems due to their practice of TM, and participation in 
the TMO?
 

 I wonder how you'd go about backing that up?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 tell that to all the long term meditators who have tried to commit suicide - 
tell that to the family members of those long term TM'ers who did commit 
suicide, tell that to the people whose lives have been ruined by their 
adherence to TM and messing around with the TMO - people who are 
mental/emotional basket cases from years of TM. They do exist. They are out 
there and I am willing to bet you know some of them. It is true that TM doesn't 
hurt some people, but to say that it is good for most is a flat out lie.
 
 The numbers have always been jimmied by the TMO and True Believers. Most 
people who are initiated stop doing TM soon after. 
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 1:24 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Steve, I
 really appreciate how common sensical (is that a valid
 phrase?) you are in what you say here. Especially the bit
 about why the TMO changed its approach. And of course, the
 directly relevant part about twenty minutes meditating being
 good for most people. 
 
 On Monday, March 31,
 2014 7:08 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@...;
 steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 steve.sundur@... wrote :
 
 Oh that's good Michael.
  At least a new name from the one I am usually called.
  Or actually, you are comparing me to something,
 rather than
 declaring I am such and such.
 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what
 if they are - distancing themselves from the Hindu roots?
 Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for many people,
 and better to downplay it.
 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing
 different than has been done from the beginning.
  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then
 shifted to a more scientific approach, because it would
 appeal to more people.
 You want to get people though the door.  You
 want to get them to the introductory lecture.  You want
 to outline the benefits.
 I happen to be able to observe some this new
 approach up close, and it seems to be having some results.
 That and a lower fee for learning.
 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly
 all negative) statements about the TMO and Maharishi. But
  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate to
 whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty
 minutes twice a day, would, I think, be a healthy activity
 for most people.
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@... wrote
 :
 
 Come
 on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are
 distancing themselves from the Hindu roots and from
 Maharishi himself - if you can't see how disingenuous
 that is then you are a truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14,
 steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
 
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you
 have
 
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what
 if
 
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
 
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall
 galls
 
 you.  And really, I don't think you're
 ashamed
 
 to admit it.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 You are both
 
 full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier
 of
 
 customers and they are doing it in part to distance
 
 themselves from the Old Goat because they know he has
 become
 
 a liability. I know what you are saying, as to M's
 
 references to the Self

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield

Now, I'm not a doctor Michael.  Nor do I play on on TV, but you may want to 
examine whence all this anger you have comes from. 

 Is it really TM related, or is due to something else?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I would actually put it like this - you are a cult apologist when you continue 
to find virtue where none exists in the TMO
 
 On Tue, 4/1/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 2:09 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Hi
 Share,
 I
 thought so too!  But if you're having a discussion
 with someone who finds nefarious intent in any and every
 action of an organization he doesn't like, then I guess
 you are cult
 apologist
 If
 Michael writing skills are worth much, I'd like to see a
 piece along the lines of:
 You
 know you're a TM cult apologist
 if:
 (now
 conjecturing about what Michael might
 say)
 If
 you ever gave Maharishi a flower.
 If
 you ever sang puja, and had a good feeling
 afterward.
 If
 you ever said Jai Guru Dev twice in one
 day.
 If
 you ever gave someone a lift to the
 dome.
 If
 you dared to suggest on a public forum that someone who
 posts non stop comments about how bad an organization is,
 might be just a wee bit out a whack, then you are a cult
 follower.
 Whaddya think!
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
sharelong60@...
 wrote :
 
 Steve, I really appreciate how common
 sensical (is that a valid phrase?) you are in what you say
 here. Especially the bit about why the TMO changed its
 approach. And of course, the directly relevant part about
 twenty minutes meditating being good for most people. 
 
 On Monday, March 31, 2014 7:08 PM,
 steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
  
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
steve.sundur@...
 wrote :
 
 Oh that's good Michael.
  At least a new name from the one I am usually called.
  Or actually, you are comparing me to something,
 rather than
 declaring I am such and such.
 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what
 if they are - distancing themselves from the Hindu roots?
 Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for many people,
 and better to downplay it.
 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing
 different than has been done from the beginning.
  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then
 shifted to a more scientific approach, because it would
 appeal to more people.
 You want to get people though the door.  You
 want to get them to the introductory lecture.  You want
 to outline the benefits.
 I happen to be able to observe some this new
 approach up close, and it seems to be having some results.
 That and a lower fee for learning.
 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly
 all negative) statements about the TMO and Maharishi. But
  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate to
 whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty
 minutes twice a day, would, I think, be a healthy activity
 for most people.
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@... wrote
 :
 
 Come
 on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are
 distancing themselves from the Hindu roots and from
 Maharishi himself - if you can't see how disingenuous
 that is then you are a truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
 
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you
 have
 
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what
 if
 
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
 
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall
 galls
 
 you.  And really, I don't think you're
 ashamed
 
 to admit it.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 You are both
 
 full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier
 of
 
 customers and they are doing it in part to distance
 
 themselves from the Old Goat because they know he has
 become
 
 a liability. I know what you are saying, as to M's
 
 references to the Self, but they have never done an ad
 
 campaign like this - everything they do is a calculated
 move
 
 to gain adherents, money and like the idiots

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield


 should be, you might be a cult apologist, if

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Hi Share, 

 I thought so too!  But if you're having a discussion with someone who finds 
nefarious intent in any and every action of an organization he doesn't like, 
then I guess you are cult apologist
 

 If Michael writing skills are worth much, I'd like to see a piece along the 
lines of:
 

 You know you're a TM cult apologist if:
 

 (now conjecturing about what Michael might say)
 

 If you ever gave Maharishi a flower.
 

 If you ever sang puja, and had a good feeling afterward.
 

 If you ever said Jai Guru Dev twice in one day.
 

 If you ever gave someone a lift to the dome.
 

 If you dared to suggest on a public forum that someone who posts non stop 
comments about how bad an organization is, might be just a wee bit out a whack, 
then you are a cult follower.
 

 Whaddya think!
 

 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Steve, I really appreciate how common sensical (is that a valid phrase?) you 
are in what you say here. Especially the bit about why the TMO changed its 
approach. And of course, the directly relevant part about twenty minutes 
meditating being good for most people. 
 

 On Monday, March 31, 2014 7:08 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Oh that's good Michael.  At least a new name from the one I am usually called. 
 Or actually, you are comparing me to something, rather than declaring I am 
such and such. 

 At any rate, regarding this new approach, so what if they are - distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots? Maybe they feel that has been off-putting for 
many people, and better to downplay it.
 

 But as has been pointed out, that is nothing different than has been done from 
the beginning.  Maharishi started with a spiritual approach, and then shifted 
to a more scientific approach, because it would appeal to more people.
 

 You want to get people though the door.  You want to get them to the 
introductory lecture.  You want to outline the benefits.
 

 I happen to be able to observe some this new approach up close, and it seems 
to be having some results. That and a lower fee for learning.
 

 You are more comfortable making blanket (mostly all negative) statements about 
the TMO and Maharishi. But  like many endeavors, you can choose to participate 
to whatever degree you like.  Meditating for twenty minutes twice a day, would, 
I think, be a healthy activity for most people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Come on Steve, be real - you know damn good and well they are distancing 
themselves from the Hindu roots and from Maharishi himself - if you can't see 
how disingenuous that is then you are a truly sheared TM sheep.
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 You''ve always got it figured out Michael.
  Doesn't matter how many twists and turns you have
 to make, the conclusion is always the same.  So what if
 the TMO has adjusted their message, or their pitch?
  That's what organizations do.  Maybe the
 problem you're having is that they seem to be having
 some success.  Let's face it, that's wall galls
 you.  And really, I don't think you're ashamed
 to admit it.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 You are both
 full of it - the TMO is attempting to tap into a new tier of
 customers and they are doing it in part to distance
 themselves from the Old Goat because they know he has become
 a liability. I know what you are saying, as to M's
 references to the Self, but they have never done an ad
 campaign like this - everything they do is a calculated move
 to gain adherents, money and like the idiots they are,
 create a vedic society. 
 
 
 On Mon, 3/31/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 12:19 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Now that was
 
 a good catch Judy.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 authfriend@...
 
 wrote :
 
 
 
 Er, Michael,
 
 more likely the New Age got It's all the
 
 Self from TM. The Self has always been a TM thing.
 
 It's what you're said to experience when you
 
 transcend, remember? Boy, you are really out in
 
 left field here

Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Mantras - Source?

2014-03-30 Thread steve.sundur


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :
 snip
 So, how many bija mantras does one need in order to attain enlightenment? 

 Is this leading up to a light bulb joke?




 
 On 03/30/2014 09:52 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:

   On 3/30/2014 9:44 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
  In an advanced version of the TM, this astrological information 
  (position of the Moon at birth) is used also for selecting the seed 
  sounds.
 
 This is probably incorrect as well - I don't recall Jerry Jarvis looking 
 up my moon at birth in an ephemeris when I got the basic and first 
 advanced technique.
 
  Actually, what is known and practiced as the TM is part of the a large 
  and complex system. Perhaps less than 1% of this has filtered through 
  the contemporary TM movement.
 
 Basic TM is pretty simple and not very complex and probably 99% of the 
 contemporary TM movement know all about MMY Jyotish and MMY Ayerveda.

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Richard, What I Did Today

2014-03-30 Thread steve.sundur

We took a hike here today.
 

https://www.google.com/maps/preview/uv?hl=enpb=!1s0x87d9295fc26706db:0x37aff25dd206887a!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttp://www.panoramio.com/photo/85510880!5srockwoods+reservation+hiking+trails+-+Google+Searchsa=Xei=stg4U__IEuHIsAT8zICIAgved=0CIsBEKIqMAo
 
https://www.google.com/maps/preview/uv?hl=enpb=!1s0x87d9295fc26706db:0x37aff25dd206887a!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttp://www.panoramio.com/photo/85510880!5srockwoods+reservation+hiking+trails+-+Google+Searchsa=Xei=stg4U__IEuHIsAT8zICIAgved=0CIsBEKIqMAo
 

 And then took a walk here a little while ago.
 

 http://www.fieldsfoods.com/ http://www.fieldsfoods.com/

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Richard, What I Did Today

2014-03-30 Thread steve.sundur

You are right about that.  There was no foliage.  That was nice in it's own 
way.  Yes, my wife made a nice meal afterwards.  And this new grocery store 
opened nearby a couple months ago, so I decided to talk a walk there after 
dinner.  Problem is, I thought I knew exactly where it was, but didn't, so 
walked quite a bit out of my way. She came and picked me up. 

 But I think we will try to make this into a regular walk where we can pick up 
some food items.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 We took a hike here today.
 

https://www.google.com/maps/preview/uv?hl=enpb=!1s0x87d9295fc26706db:0x37aff25dd206887a!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttp://www.panoramio.com/photo/85510880!5srockwoods+reservation+hiking+trails+-+Google+Searchsa=Xei=stg4U__IEuHIsAT8zICIAgved=0CIsBEKIqMAo
 
https://www.google.com/maps/preview/uv?hl=enpb=!1s0x87d9295fc26706db:0x37aff25dd206887a!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttp://www.panoramio.com/photo/85510880!5srockwoods+reservation+hiking+trails+-+Google+Searchsa=Xei=stg4U__IEuHIsAT8zICIAgved=0CIsBEKIqMAo
 

 And then took a walk here a little while ago.
 

 http://www.fieldsfoods.com/ http://www.fieldsfoods.com/

 

 Beautiful although I suspect the foliage is a little more sparse at this time 
of year. Did you follow this exploration with a hearty meal?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

The latest interview was Menos Kafatos, and the one before that was Jack 
Petranker.  Was it one of those, because I read the write ups, and nothing 
jumped out at me. 

 Let me also say, that I haven't really read any books on spiritual 
personalities in about 20 years.  The Lenz interviews I read about six years 
ago.  I've pretty much lost my interest in that kind of stuff.  But if someone 
asked me to define what enlightenment is, I'd have to defer to the traditional 
I am that.
 

 But I'd like to know what you piqued your interest in that interview, 
whichever one it was.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 I agree that there was definitely something about Rama.  I don't really have a 
theory and come from a place of ignorance on the topic of enlightenment - 
having never studied, read about, or pursued such a state. However, people are 
born with different levels of sensitivity - that I believe, so I rested there 
in what I said..look at the writeup of Rick's latest interview.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people who 
were said to be enlightened.  A few that come to mind are Yogananda, 
Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for Elizibeth 
Haich.  I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way feeling that 
they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means.  But whatever it is, I 
felt they had it. 

 I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with Fred 
Lenz.
 

 What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else.  That of course 
is your take away.
 

 Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or 
other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't have 
an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be enlightened, 
at least for me.
 

 For me, I feel I've made the most progress spiritually when I don't attempt to 
judge people, places, or things.  I try to look at things in a cool manner, and 
by doing so, I feel I sometimes gain particular insights.  I think that may be 
something I picked up from the Carlos Castenades books.  I'm a little tired so 
I can't remember accurately.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Re:  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a remarkable 
level of consciousnesses. 

 I have no idea what that means, honestlya remarkable level of 
consciousness.  My sense is that he had skills and abilities that not everyone 
has...perhaps he was born with them, perhaps he discovered them along the way.  
Kind of like those people that have skills to communicate with animals, for 
example, they are just wired that way, or particularly sensitive in that 
certain way and able to recognize it.  But, in Fred Lenz's case, he fell prey 
to his own narcissism and illusions and drug addictions, etc. andit didn't 
go well for him or for those who invested themselves in or with him as their 
teacher and leader. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Sure, I understand.  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved 
a remarkable level of consciousnesses.  For me it is based on the transcripts 
of two interviews he gave.  Maybe going back, I might feel differently.  But 
I've read my share of books on, or about, supposed enlightened people.  
Sometimes that quality really shines through. That was the feeling I was left 
with after reading the interviews. 

 His practice of different siddhis? No idea  But as you say, they were observed 
by many people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Nope, I can't.  But, I believe that Mark L. and others had the early 
experiences they did with Fred. I am not weighing in on the how or why of it 
all.  Notice Steve, that I've left myself an enormous amount of wiggle room 
here using the phrase altered perception.  Many things can create an 
experience of altered perception - hypnosis, drugs, meditation, etc.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Why Richard, whydo you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz?  Why oh why oh 
why?  Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs 
took over.  He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 I have no interest in engaging with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. 
You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the 
need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there possibly be to talk 
about?
 
 The only person here dodging and weaving and hiding is you. I think you're 
doing so because

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

I read this article a couple weeks ago, and found it kind of interesting. 

 
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303287804579443160558822086 
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303287804579443160558822086
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Old Grand-Dad was a distiller named Basil Hayden who made his name by 
distilling a bourbon whiskey made with a higher percentage of rye giving it a 
more robust and spicy flavor. The distillery he started (along with his recipe) 
was handed down from generation to generation and it was his grandson, a 3rd 
generation distiller who ended up naming the whiskey after his grandpa Old 
Grand-Dad. During prohibition the company who owned Old Grand-Dad made the 
whiskey as a “medicinal whiskey” that could be purchased with a doctor’s 
prescription keeping this delicious tipple alive, kicking and good for what 
ails ya.
 
 One thing you’ll notice on the bottle of Old Grand-Dad is that it says, in 
very large letters, Bottled In Bond. What that means is that the whiskey was 
made during one distillation season (Jan – Dec) by one distiller at one 
distillery. But that’s not all. It must also be aged in a federally bonded 
warehouse for at least 4 years and be bottled at 100 proof. The bottle’s label 
must also list the distillery it was created in and where it was bottled at (if 
different than the distillery). Most folks think it’s a relic of ye olden days, 
but I think it’s fantastic and really shows off the talent of the distiller who 
can’t rely on multi-distillation blending to get the flavor right but skill and 
experience alone.
 
 Of all “The Olds” Old Grand-Dad is my favorite and also happens to be one of 
the whiskeys I believe doesn’t get the respect that it deserves. Next time 
you’re hosting a blind bourbon tasting add this to your line up. You’ll be 
surprised how many of your fellow whiskey snobs will tell you they like it but 
might have turned their nose up if they had known what it was. Just goes to 
show that you can’t judge a whiskey by it’s bright orange label.
 
 http://thewhiskeyjug.com/bourbon-whiskey/old-grand-dad-review/ 
http://thewhiskeyjug.com/bourbon-whiskey/old-grand-dad-review/
 
 
 On Fri, 3/28/14, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... anartaxius@... 
mailto:anartaxius@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 9:13 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Like Jack Daniel's burning holes through your
 karma. Smooth. (Although on the web some say Jack Daniels is
 for pussies:
 It isn't so
 much that Jack is bad, (but it ain't great) it is that
 outside of being drank neat, it isn't detectable as
 whiskey, it’s more of a light sweet water.  Jack
  Coke is something that children vomit from on their
 birthdays.  Much like light beer, Jack’s loyalty lies
 in the fear of something different and the fear of not
 knowing what to order in a
 bar.)
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
sharelong60@...
 wrote :
 
 Xeno, for me the best descriptors
 would be the words flowing and simple. But I bet others
 would choose different words as the best descriptors.
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 3:48 PM,
 anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote:
 
  With
 regard to effortlessness, exactly what would be regarded as
 'effortless'? The definition of effortless
 is 'requiring no physical
 or mental exertion'. The word has
 synonymseasyoffhandpainlessuncomplicatedchild's
 playcursiveduck
 soupfacileflowingfluentlightno
 problemno sweatpicnicpiece
 of
 cakeroyalrunningsimplesmoothsnapundemandinguntroublesome
 Now if you take Zen meditation, and
 remove the posture requirements usually associated with it
 and also allow the eyes to close, and just sit comfortably
 and do nothing, not even starting a mantra, just being
 still, this would seem pretty effortless. The mind just goes
 where it will and whatever experience comes through the
 senses also is just handled like in TM, basically take it as
 it comes. From the information published online by
 Adyashanti, he seems to recommend something like this. He
 even calls it 'True Meditation' and describes it as
 the 'natural state'. I think good quality
 comparative research might be revealing here, as both these
 kinds of meditation seem to have produced very positive
 results for people in spite of some interesting differences
 (which Lawson mentioned in a post earlier).
 The argument that meditation x is
 0.01% more effortless than meditation y seems to be
 pointless splitting hairs. Perhaps research might show that
 doing two different kinds of meditation might produce
 superior results to just one kind. There is also the issue
 of what feels
 natural to the person meditating.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

I couldn't get to the interviews from those links.  But from the links provided 
a few months ago, I'd say that he came off better in print than he did on live 
interviews.

[FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
  It is often claimed that TM is effortless and that this somehow makes it 
superior to other forms of meditation that are not effortless and often 
(according to TM Org dogma) involve straining.
 

 Michael, I'll try to reply to some of your points as I understand them, 
ignoring the persistent refrain, and so we know it is lie perpetuated by TMO  
And I am not trying to defend the technique, just pointing some things out.  
What we were trained to say, is that nature operates according to the law of 
least action.  And therefore pointing the mind in the direction of greater 
charm, which is said to be the field of pure consciousness, Sat, Chit, Ananda, 
the mind goes there on it's own accord.  So, that would be the intermediate 
step before proclaiming it is the most superior.  That statement would be 
prefaced by saying it is the most natural.
 
 First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean 
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal 
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is 
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into 
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state: 
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this 
point is attained one will need props or supports (Skt.: ālambana), as the 
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate 
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.
 It sounds like you are describing the different kinds of samadhis.  So, I 
guess you are providing a little background here.
 
 Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for 
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being 
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like 
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word 
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means with effort!
 I think this debate has gone on many times here.  For me, it is a moot issue.  
It seems to be how one wants to describe effortlessness. 
 
 So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms 
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. 
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation 
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM 
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore 
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.
 Like I say, for some this is an important issue, but not for me.  I felt the 
technique worked pretty well
 
 Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention. 
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls 
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute: 
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too 
loose. You want them just right. When a culture of faux-effortlessness 
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many 
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.
 This sounds about right to me.
 
 Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the 
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing 
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a 
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity 
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to 
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is 
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle 
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it 
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic 
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to 
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.
 Regarding breath, it has been sometime since I've had something like that, 
especially since for me, the practice is sporadic, at best.  But I did 
subjectively correlate shallowness of breath, or seeming no breath with periods 
of deep meditation.

[FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?


 except the guy wasn't Michael, if you were implying it was.  you'd think he 
might have indicated he was picking that piece up from elsewhere.  In fact, I 
was going to ask him for some citations for some of those claims.  I guess he 
wouldn't have been able to come up with any.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote :

 This is a lot of assumption. This guy is working really hard to make [assert] 
a point. TM as it is instructed is a pretty effortless mental practice 
comparatively. But the guy makes some good points about spiritual laxity. 
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 mjackson74 writes:

 Would like to know that all the TM teachers, both current and former think of 
this treatise on TM and its effortlessness:
 
 The first of these lies or deceptions about Transcendental Meditation (TM) 
that I'd like to talk about is the idea of effortlessness. It is often claimed 
that TM is effortless and that this somehow makes it superior to other forms 
of meditation that are not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma) 
involve straining.
 
 First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean 
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal 
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is 
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into 
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state: 
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this 
point is attained one will need props or supports (Skt.: ālambana), as the 
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate 
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.
 
 Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for 
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being 
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like 
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word 
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means with effort!
 
 So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms 
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. 
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation 
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM 
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore 
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.
 
 Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention. 
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls 
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute: 
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too 
loose. You want them just right. When a culture of faux-effortlessness 
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many 
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.
 
 Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the 
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing 
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a 
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity 
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to 
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is 
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle 
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it 
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic 
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to 
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.
 

 .

[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

Oh, maybe this is the interview you were referring to Emily.  I picked up your 
other post while still at work.  This seems to apply to many of things being 
bandied about.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote :

 New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014  
 blog updates from
 Buddha at the Gas Pump 
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 published 03/28/2014
 223. Harri Aalto 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=03db592b14e=16e07f16fe

 Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

 My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an 
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an 
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that 
surrounded my body. … Continue reading → 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

I just read it again, more slowly,  I liked all of it.  His experiences sound 
very genuine.  I may try to listen to the interview.  Thanks for pointing it 
out.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Oh, maybe this is the interview you were referring to Emily.  I picked up your 
other post while still at work.  This seems to apply to many of things being 
bandied about.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote :

 New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014  
 blog updates from
 Buddha at the Gas Pump 
If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2 
per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting, 
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 published 03/28/2014
 223. Harri Aalto 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=03db592b14e=16e07f16fe

 Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

 My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an 
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an 
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that 
surrounded my body. … Continue reading → 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

Listening to it in the background. It sounds like he has a successful business
as well. And he sounds very down to earth. There are only a few people I know
personally who I had the feeling were enlightened, and in most cases they also
were very down to earth, and not particularly interested in discussing their
experiences.

I guess I've always subscribed to the theory that, those who know, do not
speak

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

I just read it again, more slowly, I liked all of it. His experiences sound
very genuine. I may try to listen to the interview. Thanks for pointing it
out.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

Oh, maybe this is the interview you were referring to Emily. I picked up your
other post while still at work. This seems to apply to many of things being
bandied about.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote :

New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014
blog updates from
Buddha at the Gas Pump
If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2
per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting,
MailChimp, etc. Of course, larger donations for other expenses are very much
appreciated and needed. Donate button on http://batgap.com
http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=aa0956064ce=16e07f16fe.

published 03/28/2014
223. Harri Aalto
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=03db592b14e=16e07f16fe

Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that
surrounded my body. … Continue reading →
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

Sure, I understand.  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a 
remarkable level of consciousnesses.  For me it is based on the transcripts of 
two interviews he gave.  Maybe going back, I might feel differently.  But I've 
read my share of books on, or about, supposed enlightened people.  Sometimes 
that quality really shines through. That was the feeling I was left with after 
reading the interviews. 

 His practice of different siddhis? No idea  But as you say, they were observed 
by many people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Nope, I can't.  But, I believe that Mark L. and others had the early 
experiences they did with Fred. I am not weighing in on the how or why of it 
all.  Notice Steve, that I've left myself an enormous amount of wiggle room 
here using the phrase altered perception.  Many things can create an 
experience of altered perception - hypnosis, drugs, meditation, etc.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Why Richard, whydo you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz?  Why oh why oh 
why?  Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs 
took over.  He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 I have no interest in engaging with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. 
You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the 
need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there possibly be to talk 
about?
 
 The only person here dodging and weaving and hiding is you. I think you're 
doing so because you don't want to reveal that your marriage is as rocky as 
your hold on sanity. 
 Speaking of dodging and weaving, it looks to me like Barry doesn't want to 
talk about the Rama levitation event. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people who 
were said to be enlightened.  A few that come to mind are Yogananda, 
Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for Elizibeth 
Haich.  I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way feeling that 
they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means.  But whatever it is, I 
felt they had it. 

 I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with Fred 
Lenz.
 

 What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else.  That of course 
is your take away.
 

 Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or 
other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't have 
an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be enlightened, 
at least for me.
 

 For me, I feel I've made the most progress spiritually when I don't attempt to 
judge people, places, or things.  I try to look at things in a cool manner, and 
by doing so, I feel I sometimes gain particular insights.  I think that may be 
something I picked up from the Carlos Castenades books.  I'm a little tired so 
I can't remember accurately.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Re:  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a remarkable 
level of consciousnesses. 

 I have no idea what that means, honestlya remarkable level of 
consciousness.  My sense is that he had skills and abilities that not everyone 
has...perhaps he was born with them, perhaps he discovered them along the way.  
Kind of like those people that have skills to communicate with animals, for 
example, they are just wired that way, or particularly sensitive in that 
certain way and able to recognize it.  But, in Fred Lenz's case, he fell prey 
to his own narcissism and illusions and drug addictions, etc. andit didn't 
go well for him or for those who invested themselves in or with him as their 
teacher and leader. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Sure, I understand.  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved 
a remarkable level of consciousnesses.  For me it is based on the transcripts 
of two interviews he gave.  Maybe going back, I might feel differently.  But 
I've read my share of books on, or about, supposed enlightened people.  
Sometimes that quality really shines through. That was the feeling I was left 
with after reading the interviews. 

 His practice of different siddhis? No idea  But as you say, they were observed 
by many people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Nope, I can't.  But, I believe that Mark L. and others had the early 
experiences they did with Fred. I am not weighing in on the how or why of it 
all.  Notice Steve, that I've left myself an enormous amount of wiggle room 
here using the phrase altered perception.  Many things can create an 
experience of altered perception - hypnosis, drugs, meditation, etc.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Why Richard, whydo you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz?  Why oh why oh 
why?  Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs 
took over.  He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 I have no interest in engaging with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. 
You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the 
need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there possibly be to talk 
about?
 
 The only person here dodging and weaving and hiding is you. I think you're 
doing so because you don't want to reveal that your marriage is as rocky as 
your hold on sanity. 
 Speaking of dodging and weaving, it looks to me like Barry doesn't want to 
talk about the Rama levitation event. Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Unifying String Theory

It's a breath mint.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote :

 It's a wave function..  .
 

 Field Work in Latest Research. ..
 

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-2646 
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-2646
 

 -Buck

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

More like a genius in training.  Looks like she's sitting on medicine ball.  I 
think young geniuses like those.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 See that little kid at the end of the table? She's a genius. 

 Share, this is where geniuses hang out; it is a genius bar.   

 LOL, that's all I have to say.
 
 What kind of place is it, Richard?
 
 
 
 On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:07 PM, Pundit Sir punditster@... wrote:
 
   Today, we went to this place:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Non-Celebrity TM Endorsements

Thata great Share. You gave me a chuckle this morning.  I also liked Barry's 
profiles.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Hi everyone, I'm a younger, older woman who lives in walkable, minus the 
winter,  Fairfield, IA. However, I do drive my car twice a day to the women's 
Dome, yes, the one Oprah meditated in (!) to practice the TMSP which I've been 
doing twice a day, every day for almost 40 years. And yes, I do tend to talk 
too much ([people often tell me to STFU), especially about health topics but 
after all I have Moon in the 6th house. Waddya expect?!  Also for my health I 
often use alternative methods outside of the TM collection of modalities. What 
can I say? I'm curious. I've got three planets in the 9th in Gemini. Go figure! 
For almost the last two years I've spent an awful lot of time participating in 
a yahoo group called Fairfield Life (FFL). Also affectionately known as the 
Funny Farm Lounge. People from all over the world. Lots of fascinating topics. 
Allegedly lots of lurkers, hi you all. I've learned so much and had fun a lot 
of the time doing so. Plus on FFL, I've encountered the dark side, not only of 
others, but also of myself. Very healing and I'm grateful. Last but not least, 
I've been called a clam and a bunch of other stuff that I don't remember. Lines 
on water, dontcha know (-:
 

 
 
 On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:28 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
   We've all seen the perils of trying to market your meditation technique by 
using celebrity endorsements. It's fine when the celebrities in question are 
popular, but more difficult when the celebrities become known for things like 
drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes non-stop while filming women being 
degraded onscreen, getting caught smoking joints while on music tours, or 
drugging their medical patients so that they can have sex with them. 

So my suggestion to the TMO is that it focus on more down-to-earth, normal 
people, and allow THEM to write endorsements talking about all the wonderful 
things TM has added to their lives. Surely when the general public hears 
testimonies from people it can identify with because they're so much like them, 
the number of TM initiations will soar again. Here are a few fictional sample 
testimonials, just to illustrate my idea:

* Hi. I'm just a normal horse rancher living outside of Fairfield, Iowa who 
goes to the flying dome twice a day and spends much of my free time trying to 
convince those who don't go to the dome that they should, because otherwise 
they're eroding the moral foundations of America and jeopardizing world peace 
and lowlife scum. I also testify on the Internet correcting the erroneous 
impression some have developed that TM is a religion. In my spare time I like 
to translate old scriptures to make them more accessible to people in modern 
times by replacing the words with better words. Thus God becomes the Unified 
Field, and grace of God becomes transcendence, and the godless becomes 
non-meditators. I think everyone should practice TM, and that strong laws 
should be put in place to *make* them practice it if they don't sign up 
willingly. You should -- nay, MUST -- all learn TM, so your lives can be as 
magical and moral as mine.

* Hello. I'm an overweight, often-out-of-work programmer who really, really 
believes in the scientific evidence that proves that TM is not only an 
effective form of meditation, but that it's by far the BEST form of meditation. 
To this end I spend hours and hours arguing with people who believe otherwise 
on Reddit, trying to convince them to believe the things I believe. I also 
think that TM should be in every school, so that all kids have the opportunity 
to grow up and have as fulfilling a life as I have. 

* Hallo. I am a long-term TM practitioner living in Norway. When I'm not 
working as a photographer, I spend my time trying to convince people like 
yourselves that if anyone says anything bad about Maharishi or TM that they're 
doing it only because they're on the payroll of the CIA or the Dalai Lama. I 
think, and have said many times, that anyone who is off the program and does 
anything other than what they're told to do by Maharishi and their TM teachers 
should be forcibly thrown out of the TM movement. In my spare time, because I 
am an exception to this, of course, I hang out with another famous spiritual 
teacher, and love to hear him tell stories about the Saviour named Maitreya 
that he's been promising will appear Any Day Now for 30 years, and hearing 
about the Space Brothers who are trying to communicate to us via crop circles. 
If you learn TM, you can have as normal and as fulfilling a life as I do. 

* Hi. I am an older woman living a fabulous life in a beach town in a fabulous 
resort area of the world. For work I correct the writing of people hoping to 
get their books published, and for fun I correct the writing of anyone on the 
Internet who is WRONG, and

[FairfieldLife] Re: delightful but not for prudes

That was great Share.  I don't know why this popped into my head, but this was 
a gag that could have been done 2000 years ago, or 5000 years ago, just as 
effectively.  I guess there are many things like that.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 http://youtu.be/lUr3XbROoA8 http://youtu.be/lUr3XbROoA8

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

Who knows what you were seeking.  Probably trying to ramp up to another 
Friskygate, which was one of your many overwrought, nonsensical, distorted 
out of proportion issues.  

 But always love ya, Judy, or at least feel compassion for you.  You are cute 
in your own sorta way.  (-:
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Hate to tell you this, Feebs, but you're hallucinating again. Nowhere did I 
say anything about an apology. Is that your guilty conscience talking? 

 

 Judy's got another addition to her crib sheet. All those alleged infractions 
requiring an apology. I wonder how long the list is now.  I wonder if she goes 
over them each night before beddybye.  That might explain some things. (-: 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

  And left dangling is your failure to chastise either Barry or Steve 
concerning their vile speculations about DoctorDumbass's marriage. Talk about 
hypocrisy... How you can face yourself in the mirror, I can't imagine. 

 

 

 Judy, it sounded like turq had shown them what you had written. Whereas you're 
going by one utterance of his, whom you often call a liar!
 
Almost none of us here have direct experience of the rest of us. IMO that's a 
good reason to reserve judgement or at least err on the positive side. 

Speaking of which, I was actually shocked, which is a good thing, by what you 
said about turq's family because I had never heard you say something like that 
about individuals who don't even post here.
 

 
 
 On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:11 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   Thank you for posting what I actually said. Try not to distort it next time, 
OK? What I wrote was quite clear and direct before you tried to turn it into 
innuendo, implication, obfuscation, and indirect accusation.
 

 And I note that, as predicted, you avoided answering my question. That's 
because you couldn't answer it honesty without its reflecting poorly on Barry's 
family.
 

 

 Judy, I think you are very good at innuendo, implication, obfuscation and 
indirect accusation. Here is what you wrote: For all we know, his family 
approves of and encourages his despicable behavior on FFL...Maybe Barry 
wouldn't live with them if they weren't as rotten as he is.

I hadn't thought there was any evidence for either her speculation or mine, so 
I was startled (but gratified!) when Barry handily supplied the evidence for my 
speculation (even if he didn't quite realize that's what he was doing).
 
 
 On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:49 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   Not what I said, Share. If you have to misquote to make your point, you know 
there's something wrong with it.
 

 BTW, has Barry's family had a lot of direct and negative experience with 
me?
 

 (Share won't answer this question. And of course she isn't going to chastise 
Barry or the Feeb for their disgusting speculations about DoctorDumbass's 
marriage.)
 

 

 

 Yep, Judy and you're still sinking! In this case by leaving off the 
accompanying part where you suggested that his family is as rotten as turq; 
and later when you said you were shocked but gratified to conclude that they 
are! Based on one utterance of his! People with whom you have had no direct 
contact?!
 
FWIW, it would take a heck of a lot of direct and negative experience with a 
person in order for me to think of them as rotten.

And there is NOTHING that would make me feel gratified to come to such 
conclusion about another human being.
 

 
 
 On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:45 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote:
 
   Interesting, According to Share, I was sinking to a new low when I 
suggested Barry's family encouraged his despicable behavior here (and can't 
acknowledge that I was right). Now here's the Feebo applauding one of Barry's 
most despicable attacks ever on FFL. Think Share will chastise either Feebs or 
Barry?
 

 

 For example, how's your marriage doing, you who are so keen to paint me with 
the brush of emotional issues? We haven't heard much about your wife lately. 
Is she still your wife?  

 Father forgive me.  I've wondered the same thing.
 

 Or are you roaming around the country in your trailer because you've got no 
home to go home to?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity

Yes, I did Lol on that!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 It's a floor wax! 

 No, it's a dessert topping!
 

 Michael, Hinduism is far, far too complex and elaborate to insist that it's 
either one or the other, a religion or a philosophy. It has elements of both. 
Rather than just screeching at people like a fundamentalist preacher, why don't 
you ask them why they say it's a philosophy? Who knows, you might learn 
something.
 

 

 Obviously Michael has NOT been to India.  FYI  Michael, Indians love to 
discuss such issues.  Plus if you went there and proclaimed that Hinduism is 
not a religion but a philosophy they would just look at you with what else is 
new grin.
 

 

 Alright I tell you what, you go to India with noozguru and get you a soapbox 
too and loudly proclaim Hinduism is not a religion and see what the adherents 
of Santana Dharma do to you - you'll be wishin' you had said it to Carlos 
Santana instead of the followers of the Hindu RELIGION as they are sending off 
into your next incarnation.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Non-Celebrity TM Endorsements

Taking bets.  I say we're not going to see Lawson hitting the Show History Link 
anytime soon.   

 Not sure why.  Maybe it's a form of protest.  Maybe inertia.  Maybe just a 
mental block.  
 

 After all, it does take a little extra effort, as small as it may be.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Nobody said it was a reply button, Lawson.
 

 This is a link (not a button) saying Show message history in the lower 
left-hand corner of the Reply window. It doesn't give any options. It just 
shows what post you were responding to when you click on it.
 

 

 except that different reply buttons give different options.
 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
 
 I guess I'm a young'n. I'm not yet 59. 

 So young, and ostensibly a software engineer, and enhanced by decades of TM 
improving your creative intelligence, and yet completely unable to figure out 
how to find and click the Show message history link at the bottom of the 
window when replying. Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Real life

Here is a fact Michael.  This is no one on this planet who thinks more about 
TM, the TMO, and MMY than you. It obviously colors your every thought, word and 
action. 

 But as you said recently, you're pretty much over it, or at least something 
close to that.
 

 Go figure.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 This is what really happens in our world, things of an unpleasant nature that 
no amount of TMSP or fantasizing about religions being philosophies will ever 
cure
 
 
 
 
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25081462/under-investigation-american-title-ceo-dead-grisly-suicide
 
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25081462/under-investigation-american-title-ceo-dead-grisly-suicide

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 Why Richard, whydo you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz?  Why oh why oh 
why?  Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs 
took over.  He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 I have no interest in engaging with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. 
You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the 
need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there possibly be to talk 
about?
 
 The only person here dodging and weaving and hiding is you. I think you're 
doing so because you don't want to reveal that your marriage is as rocky as 
your hold on sanity. 
 Speaking of dodging and weaving, it looks to me like Barry doesn't want to 
talk about the Rama levitation event. Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: You and me are like the devil and holy water


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OnnDqH6Wj8 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OnnDqH6Wj8

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 31,850,775 wanted to see and hear that, too  
No one, no one, no one
 Can get in the way of what I'm feeling
 No one, no one, no one.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Non-Celebrity TM Endorsements