subject:"\[Flashcoders\] Actionscript lives on."

Flash is not dead. It's hibernating. 
I for one don't see why everyone went with Apples view. Flash works on almost 
all other phone devices doesn't it? I do agree with Jobs, that flash pieces 
(not Flash itself) can be an inferior product, but this I believe was a problem 
that lay in the flash programers hands. With SOME of the fault in the way flash 
handles things. So yeah +1 on the money grab idea. 

As far as vector. I thought the advantage to vector was because it utilized 
math algorithms instead of pixel/raster and when it comes to processing, pure 
math is quicker. 

Karl

Sent from losPhone

On Sep 18, 2012, at 4:48 AM, Cédric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote:

 
 Jon Bradley wrote :
 The problem of flash for mobile is as much about politics and protecting 
 the Apple appstore than anything else -it seems to me that flash was a 
 threat by allowing apps to be produced bypassing Apples appstore.
 
 It is the problem of HTML5 too, since all these may happen in the browser, 
 they all bypass and gracefully skip the appstore model.
 I think the problem is the AppStore, and not the technology(ies). And you are 
 right, it has much to do with politics and moneymaking.
 
 Cedric___
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Cédric Muller

Flash would not have been an option when the first iPhone came out, we all know 
it by now.

Apple is too protective, but that's why they achieved to release hardware that 
always work with their OS and apps. That's a true plus when it comes to users; 
though it is getting less innovative with the latest OS X releases, 
everything is melting into that iOSish aspect of locking in user experience. I 
am not a supporter (writing this from an iMac, with the latest OS, with its 
hidden files truely hidden: hello Terminal). Being dependent (addict) was never 
(and will never be) a good thing for a human. Plus, Apple is among the few to 
be able to make 'programmed obsolescence' look like a false concept. Consumers 
are waiting in queues to buy new hardware, screaming when they get out with 
their Graal. And journalists are taking pictures of these scenes and are 
thrilled as never when they are reporting these. Looks like bad medicine for me.

Why everyone went down that road ? because iPhone took over the mobile market, 
making giants of the industry crumble to the sea and then there is that 
'sectarian' aspect of people consuming Apple products. It is a horde, and 
journalists that cover technology are all biased and never critical (do they 
have any means to be critical ?) towards new Apple products. I am not calling 
for a conspiracy, nor do I need one. I just seem to observe that technology 
journalists are not factual, nor visionary. Take political journalists for 
example, they always have the guts to say things that near facts.

Cedric

 Flash is not dead. It's hibernating. 
 I for one don't see why everyone went with Apples view. Flash works on almost 
 all other phone devices doesn't it? I do agree with Jobs, that flash pieces 
 (not Flash itself) can be an inferior product, but this I believe was a 
 problem that lay in the flash programers hands. With SOME of the fault in the 
 way flash handles things. So yeah +1 on the money grab idea. 
 
 As far as vector. I thought the advantage to vector was because it utilized 
 math algorithms instead of pixel/raster and when it comes to processing, pure 
 math is quicker. 
 
 Karl
 
 Sent from losPhone
 
 On Sep 18, 2012, at 4:48 AM, Cédric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote:
 
 
 Jon Bradley wrote :
 The problem of flash for mobile is as much about politics and protecting 
 the Apple appstore than anything else -it seems to me that flash was a 
 threat by allowing apps to be produced bypassing Apples appstore.
 
 It is the problem of HTML5 too, since all these may happen in the browser, 
 they all bypass and gracefully skip the appstore model.
 I think the problem is the AppStore, and not the technology(ies). And you 
 are right, it has much to do with politics and moneymaking.
 
 Cedric___
 Flashcoders mailing list
 Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
 http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
 
 ___
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Cédric Muller

Karl DeSaulniers wrote :
 Flash is not dead. It's hibernating. 
 . With SOME of the fault in the way flash handles things. 

Adobe was a little confusing on that one. It somehow proved it lacked of 
vision, and failed to capitalize the 'money grabbing' process that was needed 
for Mankind (sarcasm). And since then, it looks like Flash is living the 
Director's fate (and maybe the Director's Cut too ...). Flash is still very 
good, as a runtime. As are a lot of runtimes. What we observe is that browsers 
are runtimes, and that we can do many things with them that don't justify Flash 
use anymore (as it was always the case, take the usability gurus .. err 
darketers ). So all in all, Flash Player is still a strong runtime that lets 
developpers leverage some amazing things with it. Moreover, this AppStore storm 
got rid of a lot of bad Flash use (indirectly, a lot of bad applications with 
bad usability principles can be found on the iOS ecosystem from now on). Flash 
is now considered as a technology, and no more as a new paradigm (which is what 
the iOS AppStore is currently going through). 15 minutes of fame.

Cedric.

Sorry for the OT, as I don't really anything to add regarding vectors vs 
bitmaps ... though I 'plus' the view that it truly depends on the utilization: 
sometimes bitmaps are better, sometimes vectors are better: know your tech and 
make experiments in order to test in real situations. (Though I was amazingly 
amazed by the way Flash Player simply merges with Retina displays, for example. 
Vectors power!)
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

I personally think that if Flash wants to compete with the likes of  
HTML 5 and jQuery, it needs to step out of the plugin area.
Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming  
Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and  
manipulate DOM.

Just sayin..

Karl

PS: I don't think the original topic was vectors anyway, so your  
good. :)


On Sep 18, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Cédric Muller wrote:


Karl DeSaulniers wrote :

Flash is not dead. It's hibernating.
. With SOME of the fault in the way flash handles things.


Adobe was a little confusing on that one. It somehow proved it  
lacked of vision, and failed to capitalize the 'money grabbing'  
process that was needed for Mankind (sarcasm). And since then, it  
looks like Flash is living the Director's fate (and maybe the  
Director's Cut too ...). Flash is still very good, as a runtime. As  
are a lot of runtimes. What we observe is that browsers are  
runtimes, and that we can do many things with them that don't  
justify Flash use anymore (as it was always the case, take the  
usability gurus .. err darketers ). So all in all, Flash Player is  
still a strong runtime that lets developpers leverage some amazing  
things with it. Moreover, this AppStore storm got rid of a lot of  
bad Flash use (indirectly, a lot of bad applications with bad  
usability principles can be found on the iOS ecosystem from now on).  
Flash is now considered as a technology, and no more as a new  
paradigm (which is what the iOS AppStore is currently going  
through). 15 minutes of fame.


Cedric.

Sorry for the OT, as I don't really anything to add regarding  
vectors vs bitmaps ... though I 'plus' the view that it truly  
depends on the utilization: sometimes bitmaps are better, sometimes  
vectors are better: know your tech and make experiments in order to  
test in real situations. (Though I was amazingly amazed by the way  
Flash Player simply merges with Retina displays, for example.  
Vectors power!)

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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Paul Andrews

The web standards comittee already squashed Adobe's attempt to get 
ecmascript 2 adopted as a browser standard - making actionscript and 
javascript compatible.


Adobe is never going to try and make Flash compete with javascript as a 
DOM manipulator.


Adobe is going to concentrate on markets where flash has an advantage.

Paul

On 18/09/2012 11:35, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
I personally think that if Flash wants to compete with the likes of 
HTML 5 and jQuery, it needs to step out of the plugin area.
Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming 
Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and 
manipulate DOM.

Just sayin..

Karl

PS: I don't think the original topic was vectors anyway, so your good. :)

On Sep 18, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Cédric Muller wrote:


Karl DeSaulniers wrote :

Flash is not dead. It's hibernating.
. With SOME of the fault in the way flash handles things.


Adobe was a little confusing on that one. It somehow proved it lacked 
of vision, and failed to capitalize the 'money grabbing' process that 
was needed for Mankind (sarcasm). And since then, it looks like Flash 
is living the Director's fate (and maybe the Director's Cut too ...). 
Flash is still very good, as a runtime. As are a lot of runtimes. 
What we observe is that browsers are runtimes, and that we can do 
many things with them that don't justify Flash use anymore (as it was 
always the case, take the usability gurus .. err darketers ). So all 
in all, Flash Player is still a strong runtime that lets developpers 
leverage some amazing things with it. Moreover, this AppStore storm 
got rid of a lot of bad Flash use (indirectly, a lot of bad 
applications with bad usability principles can be found on the iOS 
ecosystem from now on). Flash is now considered as a technology, and 
no more as a new paradigm (which is what the iOS AppStore is 
currently going through). 15 minutes of fame.


Cedric.

Sorry for the OT, as I don't really anything to add regarding vectors 
vs bitmaps ... though I 'plus' the view that it truly depends on the 
utilization: sometimes bitmaps are better, sometimes vectors are 
better: know your tech and make experiments in order to test in real 
situations. (Though I was amazingly amazed by the way Flash Player 
simply merges with Retina displays, for example. Vectors power!)

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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.


Well in my understanding from starting with Flash 5.
HTML and javascript could not do what Flash was doing and that made it  
all the rage.
Now that HTML (so to speak) has caught up, I think Flash would do a  
great service and join in if you will.
Just because they turn you down, doesn't mean you don't try again. I  
think that Adobe could
make Actionscript better than Javascript and jQuery AND you would  
still be able to use the Flash
program to create things like you did for the plugin phase of Flash.  
Just this time it exports HTML instead of SWF.
I think the power of Actionscript would make a superb DOM manipulator,  
especially for its OOP capabilities.
But alas, you are probably right. I just wanted, more so, to get it  
off my chest...


If I had the money to buy Flash from Adobe, that is what I would do  
with it. It makes sense to me.
Its probably what Flash should have done in the first place instead of  
creating a plugin env.


Best,
Karl


On Sep 18, 2012, at 5:44 AM, Paul Andrews wrote:

The web standards comittee already squashed Adobe's attempt to get  
ecmascript 2 adopted as a browser standard - making actionscript and  
javascript compatible.


Adobe is never going to try and make Flash compete with javascript  
as a DOM manipulator.


Adobe is going to concentrate on markets where flash has an advantage.

Paul

On 18/09/2012 11:35, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
I personally think that if Flash wants to compete with the likes of  
HTML 5 and jQuery, it needs to step out of the plugin area.
Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming  
Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and  
manipulate DOM.

Just sayin..

Karl

PS: I don't think the original topic was vectors anyway, so your  
good. :)


On Sep 18, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Cédric Muller wrote:


Karl DeSaulniers wrote :

Flash is not dead. It's hibernating.
. With SOME of the fault in the way flash handles things.


Adobe was a little confusing on that one. It somehow proved it  
lacked of vision, and failed to capitalize the 'money grabbing'  
process that was needed for Mankind (sarcasm). And since then, it  
looks like Flash is living the Director's fate (and maybe the  
Director's Cut too ...). Flash is still very good, as a runtime.  
As are a lot of runtimes. What we observe is that browsers are  
runtimes, and that we can do many things with them that don't  
justify Flash use anymore (as it was always the case, take the  
usability gurus .. err darketers ). So all in all, Flash Player is  
still a strong runtime that lets developpers leverage some amazing  
things with it. Moreover, this AppStore storm got rid of a lot of  
bad Flash use (indirectly, a lot of bad applications with bad  
usability principles can be found on the iOS ecosystem from now  
on). Flash is now considered as a technology, and no more as a new  
paradigm (which is what the iOS AppStore is currently going  
through). 15 minutes of fame.


Cedric.

Sorry for the OT, as I don't really anything to add regarding  
vectors vs bitmaps ... though I 'plus' the view that it truly  
depends on the utilization: sometimes bitmaps are better,  
sometimes vectors are better: know your tech and make experiments  
in order to test in real situations. (Though I was amazingly  
amazed by the way Flash Player simply merges with Retina displays,  
for example. Vectors power!)

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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread tom rhodes

hmmm, i'd say from future splash days flash was doing something that html
could not deliver. it still does in a lot of ways but it's always a plugin.
adobe could have done a google a while back and made a browser but that
boat has sailed a long time ago. flash is still way better than any flavour
of JS at working the same across all browsers and platforms and it'll be a
few years still before html5 is as stable for anything vaguely complicated.
when that time comes there'll be a bunch of different avant-garde features
all treated differently by different browsers and platforms just as today.

AIR will never be as good as native, it's a wrapper for a runtime. it'll do
the job for all sorts of reasons but the people pushing the envelope on
devices won't be actionscript developers. that wasn't the case with the web
up until a few years ago.

i'm learning haxe more and more, and using it more and more in my day to
day work for backend and clients in JS and flash. it also compiles to
native code for windows phone, andriod and iOS. if i was going to put money
on actionscript living on it'd be in the form of haxe, which is already a
big improvement on AS3 but essentially feels a lot like the same thing.

On 18 September 2012 13:17, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote:

Well in my understanding from starting with Flash 5.
HTML and javascript could not do what Flash was doing and that made it all
the rage.
Now that HTML (so to speak) has caught up, I think Flash would do a great
service and join in if you will.
Just because they turn you down, doesn't mean you don't try again. I think
that Adobe could
make Actionscript better than Javascript and jQuery AND you would still be
able to use the Flash
program to create things like you did for the plugin phase of Flash. Just
this time it exports HTML instead of SWF.
I think the power of Actionscript would make a superb DOM manipulator,
especially for its OOP capabilities.
But alas, you are probably right. I just wanted, more so, to get it off my
chest...

If I had the money to buy Flash from Adobe, that is what I would do with
it. It makes sense to me.
Its probably what Flash should have done in the first place instead of
creating a plugin env.

Best,
Karl

On Sep 18, 2012, at 5:44 AM, Paul Andrews wrote:

The web standards comittee already squashed Adobe's attempt to get
ecmascript 2 adopted as a browser standard - making actionscript and
javascript compatible.

Adobe is never going to try and make Flash compete with javascript as a
DOM manipulator.

Adobe is going to concentrate on markets where flash has an advantage.

Paul

On 18/09/2012 11:35, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:

I personally think that if Flash wants to compete with the likes of HTML
5 and jQuery, it needs to step out of the plugin area.
Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming
Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and manipulate
DOM.
Just sayin..

Karl

PS: I don't think the original topic was vectors anyway, so your good. :)

On Sep 18, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Cédric Muller wrote:

Karl DeSaulniers wrote :

Flash is not dead. It's hibernating.
. With SOME of the fault in the way flash handles things.

Adobe was a little confusing on that one. It somehow proved it lacked
of vision, and failed to capitalize the 'money grabbing' process that was
needed for Mankind (sarcasm). And since then, it looks like Flash is living
the Director's fate (and maybe the Director's Cut too ...). Flash is still
very good, as a runtime. As are a lot of runtimes. What we observe is that
browsers are runtimes, and that we can do many things with them that don't
justify Flash use anymore (as it was always the case, take the usability
gurus .. err darketers ). So all in all, Flash Player is still a strong
runtime that lets developpers leverage some amazing things with it.
Moreover, this AppStore storm got rid of a lot of bad Flash use
(indirectly, a lot of bad applications with bad usability principles can be
found on the iOS ecosystem from now on). Flash is now considered as a
technology, and no more as a new paradigm (which is what the iOS AppStore
is currently going through). 15 minutes of fame.

Cedric.

Sorry for the OT, as I don't really anything to add regarding vectors
vs bitmaps ... though I 'plus' the view that it truly depends on the
utilization: sometimes bitmaps are better, sometimes vectors are better:
know your tech and make experiments in order to test in real situations.
(Though I was amazingly amazed by the way Flash Player simply merges with
Retina displays, for example. Vectors power!)
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Jon Bradley

Ooops...mis-quote. I didn't write that bit :)


On Sep 18, 2012, at 5:48 AM, Cédric Muller wrote:

 
 Jon Bradley wrote :
 The problem of flash for mobile is as much about politics and protecting 
 the Apple appstore than anything else -it seems to me that flash was a 
 threat by allowing apps to be produced bypassing Apples appstore.
 
 It is the problem of HTML5 too, since all these may happen in the browser, 
 they all bypass and gracefully skip the appstore model.
 I think the problem is the AppStore, and not the technology(ies). And you are 
 right, it has much to do with politics and moneymaking.
 
 Cedric


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RE: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Merrill, Jason

 Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming 
 Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and manipulate 
 DOM.
Just sayin..

THAT would be AWESOME and make me VERY HAPPY.  

 Jason Merrill
 Instructional Technology Architect II
 Bank of America  Global Learning 


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Ima Newsletta


Actionscript can manipulate DOM... because as1 is quite the same as js.
My personal experience: I'm a flash developer since 2002, I've begun 
with Flash 6 (before I was a classic programmer, c, clipper and so on).
I appreciated very much when As3 came out because I was freed by that 
nightmare of implementing class with prototype, by passing always the 
context and so on...
Now, because I have family, I was forced to learn html+js (and 
obviously jQuery) and I'm back into prototypes and context nightmare.
Ok let's say that I feel pretty strong and confortable with them, but 
it's a jump of at least 6 years in the past.
However, the REAL NIGHTMARE that I had forgottend since 2002 is that 
OBVIOUSLY html+js (also by using jQuery) differs from browser to browser.
jQuery helps a lot, however you have to test your webapp  on many 
browser and a lot of times what works on one, doesn't on another.
The real bad thing is that also on the language javascript there are 
important differences among the browser and you'll learn these only when 
they are in front of you.
For example, setTimeout(myFunction, 1000, myParam) won't work on 
explorer and you have to write it in this way:

setTimeout(function(){myFunction(myParam)} , 1000);
And this is just an example...

Btw I didn't left Flash, I use it for making Android and iOS apps and it 
works very well.
I made 4 apps, free on Android (with advertising banners by using an 
ANE) and with fee on Apple Store.


P.S. Sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.


Il 18/09/2012 15:22, Merrill, Jason ha scritto:

Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming Javascripts 
competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and manipulate DOM.

Just sayin..

THAT would be AWESOME and make me VERY HAPPY.

  Jason Merrill
  Instructional Technology Architect II
  Bank of America  Global Learning


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Tom Gooding

I have a couple of questions about AIR / mobile device dev:

1) Has anyone on this list shipped anything decent (by this I guess I mean 
commercially successful; gave +ve ROI on dev/sales costs) into the AppStore 
using AS3/AIR?
2) Has anyone got any practical advice for technology choices for an AS3 / Java 
shop looking to do mobile apps / games  (we have a framework using SmartFox 
server with AS3 client tech). 

Currently - we're looking to kick off a mobile dev track early next year, and 
expect to be using native tech, which is a pity for us as we have a really 
mature AS3 framework but I don't see any examples of flash being used to much 
commercial effect on mobile thus far...  

 
On 18 Sep 2012, at 14:22, Merrill, Jason wrote:

 Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming 
 Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and manipulate 
 DOM.
Just sayin..

THAT would be AWESOME and make me VERY HAPPY.  

Jason Merrill
Instructional Technology Architect II
Bank of America  Global Learning 


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Mike Duguid

 1) Has anyone on this list shipped anything decent (by this I guess I mean 
 commercially successful; gave +ve ROI on dev/sales costs) into the AppStore 
 using AS3/AIR?

Not me personally, but aware of these chart toppers:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20104108-264/flash-derived-ipad-game-tops-app-store-charts/
http://www.flashrealtime.com/wonderputt-flash-ipad/
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Tom Gooding

thanks - had seen Machinarium - will take a look at Wonderputt, thing that 
worries us specifically with AIR is the networking stack; running robust / 
low-latency socket connections for multiplayer games (which we do fine in 
browser flash).



On 18 Sep 2012, at 16:48, Mike Duguid wrote:

 1) Has anyone on this list shipped anything decent (by this I guess I mean 
 commercially successful; gave +ve ROI on dev/sales costs) into the AppStore 
 using AS3/AIR?

Not me personally, but aware of these chart toppers:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20104108-264/flash-derived-ipad-game-tops-app-store-charts/
http://www.flashrealtime.com/wonderputt-flash-ipad/
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Henrik Andersson

Tom Gooding skriver:
 thanks - had seen Machinarium - will take a look at Wonderputt, thing that 
 worries us specifically with AIR is the networking stack; running robust / 
 low-latency socket connections for multiplayer games (which we do fine in 
 browser flash).
 

I say that AIR is even more suited for this than the Flash player, since
it provides a full socket API and not just outgoing TCP connections.

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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread John McCormack


Henrick

I do agree with you that Flash's vector graphics would save a lot of 
bandwidth. What I meant was that if you download a bitmap the effect on 
battery life would be the same for Flash, HTML5 and JS, so the argument 
about Flash didn't stand up.


On this vector vs  bitmaps thing...

For an image with just a single pixel (4 bytes + header) the demand on 
the CPU would far less than if you used vector data. For an image in 
which encoding is not used, a single 640x480 image has 307,200 pixels at 
4 bytes per pixel = 1MB plus but, of course, you couldn't describe it 
with vectors. The effect on battery life of this is image dependent, not 
language dependent.


As far as I can recall, with higher demand the CPU goes faster causing 
more logical state changes per second and whenever a logical bit changes 
state the transistors in the chips momentarily pass excess current and 
that's why the CPU uses more power and gets hot. The same happens with 
overclocking.


Of course vectors are great for scaled images and if JS and HTML5 don't 
do those as well as Flash they won't be as good zoomed in.


Anyway, its absolutely wonderful to hear you all again.

John


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

Unfortunately the problem is pixels themselves. With higher res screens the 
desire for clean imagery is greater. So with pixels, they have to be set at 
there largest size at 72 DPI. So this means with zoomed material you have to 
have multiple images set at their largest size per device otherwise zooming 
gets pixelated (dividing one pixel into two). Thus to achieve a clean image, 
your one pixel increases exponentially in file size. With vector, it's a little 
more math to describe 1 size that then is scaleable. Now you can go the route 
of one middle sized image and allow some pixelation on larger screens and over 
processing on some smaller screens. But to truly get the cleanest fastest pixel 
based image on all devices and screen you have to have I'd say at least 3-5 
different files. Each a different size. Seems like a lot of overhead to me. 

Also, I always wondered why postscript wasn't utilized in HTML image and font 
rendering. Seems to me that postscript would fit nicely unless I am not 
understanding postscript. But now I am OT.

Guess to get back OT I'd just say I loved how Flash handled vector. I could 
design in Adobe Illustrator or fireworks, be able to scale what ever size I 
wanted and export to flash. It was soo easy on bandwidth as far as my 
experiences went with the projects I did. In a world of trying to fit a banner 
ad with all it's animations and graphics audio and possibly video under 100K I 
utilized vector 8 out of 10 times to reduce file sizes.


Karl

Sent from losPhone

On Sep 18, 2012, at 11:57 AM, John McCormack j...@easypeasy.co.uk wrote:

 Henrick
 
 I do agree with you that Flash's vector graphics would save a lot of 
 bandwidth. What I meant was that if you download a bitmap the effect on 
 battery life would be the same for Flash, HTML5 and JS, so the argument about 
 Flash didn't stand up.
 
 On this vector vs  bitmaps thing...
 
 For an image with just a single pixel (4 bytes + header) the demand on the 
 CPU would far less than if you used vector data. For an image in which 
 encoding is not used, a single 640x480 image has 307,200 pixels at 4 bytes 
 per pixel = 1MB plus but, of course, you couldn't describe it with vectors. 
 The effect on battery life of this is image dependent, not language dependent.
 
 As far as I can recall, with higher demand the CPU goes faster causing more 
 logical state changes per second and whenever a logical bit changes state the 
 transistors in the chips momentarily pass excess current and that's why the 
 CPU uses more power and gets hot. The same happens with overclocking.
 
 Of course vectors are great for scaled images and if JS and HTML5 don't do 
 those as well as Flash they won't be as good zoomed in.
 
 Anyway, its absolutely wonderful to hear you all again.
 
 John
 
 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Gustavo Duenas


what program did you use for creating apps for android and ios?

Gus
On Sep 18, 2012, at 11:02 AM, Ima Newsletta wrote:

Actionscript can manipulate DOM... because as1 is quite the same  
as js.
My personal experience: I'm a flash developer since 2002, I've begun  
with Flash 6 (before I was a classic programmer, c, clipper and so  
on).
I appreciated very much when As3 came out because I was freed by  
that nightmare of implementing class with prototype, by passing  
always the context and so on...
Now, because I have family, I was forced to learn html+js (and  
obviously jQuery) and I'm back into prototypes and context nightmare.
Ok let's say that I feel pretty strong and confortable with them,  
but it's a jump of at least 6 years in the past.
However, the REAL NIGHTMARE that I had forgottend since 2002 is that  
OBVIOUSLY html+js (also by using jQuery) differs from browser to  
browser.
jQuery helps a lot, however you have to test your webapp  on many  
browser and a lot of times what works on one, doesn't on another.
The real bad thing is that also on the language javascript there are  
important differences among the browser and you'll learn these only  
when they are in front of you.
For example, setTimeout(myFunction, 1000, myParam) won't work on  
explorer and you have to write it in this way:

setTimeout(function(){myFunction(myParam)} , 1000);
And this is just an example...

Btw I didn't left Flash, I use it for making Android and iOS apps  
and it works very well.
I made 4 apps, free on Android (with advertising banners by using an  
ANE) and with fee on Apple Store.


P.S. Sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.


Il 18/09/2012 15:22, Merrill, Jason ha scritto:
Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript  
becoming Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can  
control and manipulate DOM.

Just sayin..

THAT would be AWESOME and make me VERY HAPPY.

 Jason Merrill
 Instructional Technology Architect II
 Bank of America  Global Learning


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Paul Andrews


On 18/09/2012 18:49, Gustavo Duenas wrote:

what program did you use for creating apps for android and ios?


Btw I didn't left Flash, I use it for making Android and iOS apps and 
it works very well.




Gus
On Sep 18, 2012, at 11:02 AM, Ima Newsletta wrote:

Actionscript can manipulate DOM... because as1 is quite the same as 
js.
My personal experience: I'm a flash developer since 2002, I've begun 
with Flash 6 (before I was a classic programmer, c, clipper and so 
on).
I appreciated very much when As3 came out because I was freed by that 
nightmare of implementing class with prototype, by passing always the 
context and so on...
Now, because I have family, I was forced to learn html+js (and 
obviously jQuery) and I'm back into prototypes and context nightmare.
Ok let's say that I feel pretty strong and confortable with them, but 
it's a jump of at least 6 years in the past.
However, the REAL NIGHTMARE that I had forgottend since 2002 is that 
OBVIOUSLY html+js (also by using jQuery) differs from browser to 
browser.
jQuery helps a lot, however you have to test your webapp  on many 
browser and a lot of times what works on one, doesn't on another.
The real bad thing is that also on the language javascript there are 
important differences among the browser and you'll learn these only 
when they are in front of you.
For example, setTimeout(myFunction, 1000, myParam) won't work on 
explorer and you have to write it in this way:

setTimeout(function(){myFunction(myParam)} , 1000);
And this is just an example...

Btw I didn't left Flash, I use it for making Android and iOS apps and 
it works very well.
I made 4 apps, free on Android (with advertising banners by using an 
ANE) and with fee on Apple Store.


P.S. Sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.


Il 18/09/2012 15:22, Merrill, Jason ha scritto:
Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming 
Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and 
manipulate DOM.

Just sayin..

THAT would be AWESOME and make me VERY HAPPY.

 Jason Merrill
 Instructional Technology Architect II
 Bank of America  Global Learning


--
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The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the 
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Attachments that are part of this EC may have additional important 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Ima Newsletta


Adobe Flash CS5.5 updated to AIR3.2, I'm really satisfied with it.
I've made this application (100,000+ downloads, more than 1,000 feebacks 
for an avarage rate of 4.6)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.com.int33h.kfm
It took me about a year to design, program and testing and I'm still 
releasing updates with new features every 1-2 months.
It's completly free, no in app purchase to advance in the game (I hate 
that model of business).

It uses heavy mysql and heavy computing and it runs fine on my Galaxy S.
On devices such as = Galaxy S2 the app doesn't seem to be build on 
Flash, it seems made natively.

The same app is available for iOS but under a small fee.
Hope this helps



Il 18/09/2012 19:49, Gustavo Duenas ha scritto:

what program did you use for creating apps for android and ios?

Gus
On Sep 18, 2012, at 11:02 AM, Ima Newsletta wrote:

Actionscript can manipulate DOM... because as1 is quite the same as 
js.
My personal experience: I'm a flash developer since 2002, I've begun 
with Flash 6 (before I was a classic programmer, c, clipper and so 
on).
I appreciated very much when As3 came out because I was freed by that 
nightmare of implementing class with prototype, by passing always the 
context and so on...
Now, because I have family, I was forced to learn html+js (and 
obviously jQuery) and I'm back into prototypes and context nightmare.
Ok let's say that I feel pretty strong and confortable with them, but 
it's a jump of at least 6 years in the past.
However, the REAL NIGHTMARE that I had forgottend since 2002 is that 
OBVIOUSLY html+js (also by using jQuery) differs from browser to 
browser.
jQuery helps a lot, however you have to test your webapp  on many 
browser and a lot of times what works on one, doesn't on another.
The real bad thing is that also on the language javascript there are 
important differences among the browser and you'll learn these only 
when they are in front of you.
For example, setTimeout(myFunction, 1000, myParam) won't work on 
explorer and you have to write it in this way:

setTimeout(function(){myFunction(myParam)} , 1000);
And this is just an example...

Btw I didn't left Flash, I use it for making Android and iOS apps and 
it works very well.
I made 4 apps, free on Android (with advertising banners by using an 
ANE) and with fee on Apple Store.


P.S. Sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.


Il 18/09/2012 15:22, Merrill, Jason ha scritto:
Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming 
Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and 
manipulate DOM.

Just sayin..

THAT would be AWESOME and make me VERY HAPPY.

 Jason Merrill
 Instructional Technology Architect II
 Bank of America  Global Learning


--
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of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is 
privileged, confidential or proprietary. If you are not an intended 
recipient, please notify the sender, and then please delete and 
destroy all copies and attachments, and be advised that any review 
or dissemination of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the 
information contained in or attached to this message is prohibited.
Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell 
or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial 
product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or 
an official statement of Sender. Subject to applicable law, Sender 
may intercept, monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) 
traveling through its networks/systems and may produce any such EC 
to regulators, law enforcement, in litigation and as required by law.
The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the 
handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in 
countries other than the country in which you are located. This 
message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses.


References to Sender are references to any subsidiary of Bank of 
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FDIC Insured * Are Not Bank Guaranteed * May Lose Value * Are Not a 
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Activity * Are Not Insured by Any Federal Government Agency. 
Attachments that are part of this EC may have additional important 
disclosures and disclaimers, which you should read. This message is 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Deepanjan Das

Ah this gives me more confident to stay where I am and continue upgrading 
myself in action script sphere. I have been into action scripting for now 
nearly a decade and recently was getting a bit confused of where will it 
actually lead to. Though my knowledge of action scripting helped me a lot to 
pick up android native development in java, still I have started to miss the 
charm of as3. But with this discussion my hopes seem to have brighten up.

Thanks guys for bringing up this topic.

Warm Regards
Deepanjan Das

Sent from my iPad

On 18-Sep-2012, at 11:40 PM, Ima Newsletta bignewsletter...@gmail.com wrote:

 Adobe Flash CS5.5 updated to AIR3.2, I'm really satisfied with it.
 I've made this application (100,000+ downloads, more than 1,000 feebacks for 
 an avarage rate of 4.6)
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.com.int33h.kfm
 It took me about a year to design, program and testing and I'm still 
 releasing updates with new features every 1-2 months.
 It's completly free, no in app purchase to advance in the game (I hate that 
 model of business).
 It uses heavy mysql and heavy computing and it runs fine on my Galaxy S.
 On devices such as = Galaxy S2 the app doesn't seem to be build on Flash, it 
 seems made natively.
 The same app is available for iOS but under a small fee.
 Hope this helps
 
 
 
 Il 18/09/2012 19:49, Gustavo Duenas ha scritto:
 what program did you use for creating apps for android and ios?
 
 Gus
 On Sep 18, 2012, at 11:02 AM, Ima Newsletta wrote:
 
 Actionscript can manipulate DOM... because as1 is quite the same as js.
 My personal experience: I'm a flash developer since 2002, I've begun with 
 Flash 6 (before I was a classic programmer, c, clipper and so on).
 I appreciated very much when As3 came out because I was freed by that 
 nightmare of implementing class with prototype, by passing always the 
 context and so on...
 Now, because I have family, I was forced to learn html+js (and obviously 
 jQuery) and I'm back into prototypes and context nightmare.
 Ok let's say that I feel pretty strong and confortable with them, but it's 
 a jump of at least 6 years in the past.
 However, the REAL NIGHTMARE that I had forgottend since 2002 is that 
 OBVIOUSLY html+js (also by using jQuery) differs from browser to browser.
 jQuery helps a lot, however you have to test your webapp  on many browser 
 and a lot of times what works on one, doesn't on another.
 The real bad thing is that also on the language javascript there are 
 important differences among the browser and you'll learn these only when 
 they are in front of you.
 For example, setTimeout(myFunction, 1000, myParam) won't work on explorer 
 and you have to write it in this way:
 setTimeout(function(){myFunction(myParam)} , 1000);
 And this is just an example...
 
 Btw I didn't left Flash, I use it for making Android and iOS apps and it 
 works very well.
 I made 4 apps, free on Android (with advertising banners by using an ANE) 
 and with fee on Apple Store.
 
 P.S. Sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.
 
 
 Il 18/09/2012 15:22, Merrill, Jason ha scritto:
 Make it an EMCA viable script language. Like Actionscript becoming 
 Javascripts competitor. Make it so Actionscript can control and 
 manipulate DOM.
 Just sayin..
 
 THAT would be AWESOME and make me VERY HAPPY.
 
 Jason Merrill
 Instructional Technology Architect II
 Bank of America  Global Learning
 
 
 --
 This message w/attachments (message) is intended solely for the use of the 
 intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, 
 confidential or proprietary. If you are not an intended recipient, please 
 notify the sender, and then please delete and destroy all copies and 
 attachments, and be advised that any review or dissemination of, or the 
 taking of any action in reliance on, the information contained in or 
 attached to this message is prohibited.
 Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a 
 solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or 
 service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official 
 statement of Sender. Subject to applicable law, Sender may intercept, 
 monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its 
 networks/systems and may produce any such EC to regulators, law 
 enforcement, in litigation and as required by law.
 The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling 
 of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other 
 than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be 
 guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses.
 
 References to Sender are references to any subsidiary of Bank of America 
 Corporation. Securities and Insurance Products: * Are Not FDIC Insured * 
 Are Not Bank Guaranteed * May Lose Value * Are Not a Bank Deposit * Are 
 Not a Condition to Any Banking

Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Kevin Newman

There are a number of Stage3D based frameworks that are attempting to do 
just that (including my poor neglected Backstage2D).


Kevin N.


On 9/17/12 5:54 PM, Henrik Andersson wrote:

Flash needs a more powerful caching system for rasterized vector art.


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Kevin Newman

I haven't shipped anything public, but have shipped a couple of demos 
and ad-hoc distributed apps that clients were pretty happy with.


There is a highish profile Flash site that we are currently planning to 
revamp for mobile and desktop, all using Flash and AIR. I think Adobe 
has a good story going forward, if they can get their PR goons out of 
the way.


Kevin N.


On 9/18/12 11:04 AM, Tom Gooding wrote:

1) Has anyone on this list shipped anything decent (by this I guess I mean 
commercially successful; gave +ve ROI on dev/sales costs) into the AppStore 
using AS3/AIR?


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-18 Thread Kevin Newman


On 9/18/12 11:04 AM, Tom Gooding wrote:

1) Has anyone on this list shipped anything decent (by this I guess I mean 
commercially successful; gave +ve ROI on dev/sales costs) into the AppStore 
using AS3/AIR?
Also, I didn't have anything to do with it, but I think the NBC Sports 
(formerly NBC Olympics) apps are both done in AIR.



2) Has anyone got any practical advice for technology choices for an AS3 / Java 
shop looking to do mobile apps / games  (we have a framework using SmartFox 
server with AS3 client tech).
Get started with Starling or another Stage3D based framework (through 
direct rendermode) from the start, and don't bother with CPU or GPU 
rendermodes.


Kevin N.

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[Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread John McCormack


Hopefully, Flash will live on in AIR...

http://labs.visual-analytics.net/?p=543

Internet 2 is the Internet of (mostly mobile) Applications. So IOS ist 
the next Internet “Browser”. As Flash was blasted as being the problem 
the reality that HTML is the technology of the old WWW was overseen. 
HTML for instance, as an interface, is not evolving as fast as the rest 
of the internet. So companies like Apple realize this and are trying to 
circumvent the WC3 while promoting it heavily and lambasting Flash. Its 
an excellent strategy, and its dishonest.


So the HTML5 strategy will probably show up to be the wrong option!

We’re seeing the rise of Internet 2.0. Everyone really believed it was 
the internet that was physically going to change and our bandwidth 
increases but what really happened is that the website model turned into 
the application model. Now more of the processing power can be handled 
by the devices lending to a better user experience. For awhile the fight 
was HTML vs. Flash. Who was going to be the future of internet? And then 
Apple stepped in and made the announcement that they couldn’t see Flash 
in their mobile future. And since they’re the leader in the technology 
market it does seem like Apple killed Flash. But they haven’t. They just 
pushed Flash into what they see as the future of their devices.


John

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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread Kevin Newman

HTML5 is finally on the downslide of the gartner hype cycle's peak of 
inflated expectations. So it makes sense that people are starting to 
pronounce it's death. Mark Zuckerberg has caught on with his comments 
about native apps vs. HTML5 from last week too.


HTML always had a place, and probably will until another document spec 
supersedes it. I wouldn't bet the future of my company on it though.


I wrote about this a while ago:
http://www.unfocus.com/2011/11/09/flash-and-air-nothing-but-opportunity/

The market is splitting, and that's great. Both are growing, one is just 
growing faster. BTW, FaceBook's whole play was making apps out of web 
apps, and providing ways for app makers to monetize those apps while FB 
gets a tax - that's why Facebook is in scramble mode, they are trying to 
compete for attention against far more rapid growth from device apps, 
which also happen to take a far larger tax. Its not a short term problem 
because the desktop/laptop install base is so large (same for Flash 
gaming), but they will hit a wall at some point, and that's what their 
horrible stock numbers are about.


Kevin N.

P.S. I wrote that before I witnessed the horrible PR nightmare that 
Adobe created (and still hasn't addressed). I have less confidence in 
Adobe as a company than I did when I wrote that. On the technology, I 
still think Flash is well positioned to be a killer multi-platform app 
toolkit. I just can't say I believe Adobe will be able to execute well 
enough to capitalize on it. I think they're leadership is too busy 
chasing the fads of Wall Street, rather than generating their own as any 
technology company must. The Adobe evangelists have caught a terminal 
case of pragmatism too. Since when is technology about pragmatism? Pft.


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread John McCormack

That article is very interesting Kevin. I will chew on it a bit more 
tomorrow, after work.


One thing that Apple issue seemed to miss was that any significant 
download of pixels, no matter what the delivery language, is going to 
use a similar amount of battery life. So it really had little to do with 
Flash. More to do with control of the market.


I have written most of my software in C++ and I love Visual Studio 2010 
but for shear ease of use, and with great results, I think Flash and Air 
are brilliant and I will be using them to do my next few pieces of work.


John

On 17/09/2012 18:51, Kevin Newman wrote:
HTML5 is finally on the downslide of the gartner hype cycle's peak of 
inflated expectations. So it makes sense that people are starting to 
pronounce it's death. Mark Zuckerberg has caught on with his comments 
about native apps vs. HTML5 from last week too.


HTML always had a place, and probably will until another document spec 
supersedes it. I wouldn't bet the future of my company on it though.


I wrote about this a while ago:
http://www.unfocus.com/2011/11/09/flash-and-air-nothing-but-opportunity/

The market is splitting, and that's great. Both are growing, one is 
just growing faster. BTW, FaceBook's whole play was making apps out of 
web apps, and providing ways for app makers to monetize those apps 
while FB gets a tax - that's why Facebook is in scramble mode, they 
are trying to compete for attention against far more rapid growth from 
device apps, which also happen to take a far larger tax. Its not a 
short term problem because the desktop/laptop install base is so large 
(same for Flash gaming), but they will hit a wall at some point, and 
that's what their horrible stock numbers are about.


Kevin N.

P.S. I wrote that before I witnessed the horrible PR nightmare that 
Adobe created (and still hasn't addressed). I have less confidence in 
Adobe as a company than I did when I wrote that. On the technology, I 
still think Flash is well positioned to be a killer multi-platform app 
toolkit. I just can't say I believe Adobe will be able to execute well 
enough to capitalize on it. I think they're leadership is too busy 
chasing the fads of Wall Street, rather than generating their own as 
any technology company must. The Adobe evangelists have caught a 
terminal case of pragmatism too. Since when is technology about 
pragmatism? Pft.


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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

John McCormack skriver:
 One thing that Apple issue seemed to miss was that any significant
 download of pixels, no matter what the delivery language, is going to
 use a similar amount of battery life. So it really had little to do with
 Flash. More to do with control of the market.

I beg to differ. Flash with the vector graphics is quite relevant since
vector graphics can vastly reduce the transfer size for the art.
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RE: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread Gregory Boudreaux

From an eLearning perspective, anyone dealing with a browser-based LMS
will need to start planning for HTML5/JS/CSS unless something new comes
out that that is not currently on the radar.


gregb



-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of John
McCormack
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 3:05 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

That article is very interesting Kevin. I will chew on it a bit more
tomorrow, after work.

One thing that Apple issue seemed to miss was that any significant
download of pixels, no matter what the delivery language, is going to
use a similar amount of battery life. So it really had little to do with
Flash. More to do with control of the market.


I have written most of my software in C++ and I love Visual Studio 2010
but for shear ease of use, and with great results, I think Flash and Air
are brilliant and I will be using them to do my next few pieces of work.

John

On 17/09/2012 18:51, Kevin Newman wrote:
 HTML5 is finally on the downslide of the gartner hype cycle's peak of 
 inflated expectations. So it makes sense that people are starting to 
 pronounce it's death. Mark Zuckerberg has caught on with his comments 
 about native apps vs. HTML5 from last week too.

 HTML always had a place, and probably will until another document spec

 supersedes it. I wouldn't bet the future of my company on it though.

 I wrote about this a while ago:
 http://www.unfocus.com/2011/11/09/flash-and-air-nothing-but-opportunit
 y/

 The market is splitting, and that's great. Both are growing, one is 
 just growing faster. BTW, FaceBook's whole play was making apps out of

 web apps, and providing ways for app makers to monetize those apps 
 while FB gets a tax - that's why Facebook is in scramble mode, they 
 are trying to compete for attention against far more rapid growth from

 device apps, which also happen to take a far larger tax. Its not a 
 short term problem because the desktop/laptop install base is so large

 (same for Flash gaming), but they will hit a wall at some point, and 
 that's what their horrible stock numbers are about.

 Kevin N.

 P.S. I wrote that before I witnessed the horrible PR nightmare that 
 Adobe created (and still hasn't addressed). I have less confidence in 
 Adobe as a company than I did when I wrote that. On the technology, I 
 still think Flash is well positioned to be a killer multi-platform app

 toolkit. I just can't say I believe Adobe will be able to execute well

 enough to capitalize on it. I think they're leadership is too busy 
 chasing the fads of Wall Street, rather than generating their own as 
 any technology company must. The Adobe evangelists have caught a 
 terminal case of pragmatism too. Since when is technology about 
 pragmatism? Pft.

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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

Of static art and of limiting complexity. The moment complex vectors are used, 
the data requirements balloon and once motion is taken into consideration (data 
for per-control point manipulation) the argument is far out the window.

Either way, it's a moot argument.

-j

On Sep 17, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Henrik Andersson wrote:

 John McCormack skriver:
 One thing that Apple issue seemed to miss was that any significant
 download of pixels, no matter what the delivery language, is going to
 use a similar amount of battery life. So it really had little to do with
 Flash. More to do with control of the market.
 
 I beg to differ. Flash with the vector graphics is quite relevant since
 vector graphics can vastly reduce the transfer size for the art.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread Ross P. Sclafani

i think battery life is paramount to data consumption in mobile, and the bits 
saved by vector formats
have a very high cost in cpu cycles.

this is why AIR for iOS tends towards starling / spritesheet methodologies.

On Sep 17, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote:

 John McCormack skriver:
 One thing that Apple issue seemed to miss was that any significant
 download of pixels, no matter what the delivery language, is going to
 use a similar amount of battery life. So it really had little to do with
 Flash. More to do with control of the market.
 
 I beg to differ. Flash with the vector graphics is quite relevant since
 vector graphics can vastly reduce the transfer size for the art.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

Jon Bradley skriver:
 Of static art and of limiting complexity. The moment complex vectors are 
 used, the data requirements balloon and once motion is taken into 
 consideration (data for per-control point manipulation) the argument is far 
 out the window.
 
 Either way, it's a moot argument.
 

Do you know of any studies about this? Because it would be interesting
to see just how vector animation compares to traditional content.

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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread Ross P. Sclafani

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/optimizing-mobile-performance.html

On Sep 17, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote:

 Jon Bradley skriver:
 Of static art and of limiting complexity. The moment complex vectors are 
 used, the data requirements balloon and once motion is taken into 
 consideration (data for per-control point manipulation) the argument is far 
 out the window.
 
 Either way, it's a moot argument.
 
 
 Do you know of any studies about this? Because it would be interesting
 to see just how vector animation compares to traditional content.
 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

It's just the mathematics of how vectors are managed and calculated (on CPU). 
There really is no comparison - vector graphics are convenient, not performant.

It's quite easy to look up online - or imagine watching your favorite movie on 
the big screen and it being all vector (it would never even run).

-j


On Sep 17, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote:

 Jon Bradley skriver:
 Of static art and of limiting complexity. The moment complex vectors are 
 used, the data requirements balloon and once motion is taken into 
 consideration (data for per-control point manipulation) the argument is far 
 out the window.
 
 Either way, it's a moot argument.
 
 
 Do you know of any studies about this? Because it would be interesting
 to see just how vector animation compares to traditional content.
 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

Ross P. Sclafani skriver:
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/optimizing-mobile-performance.html
 

That discusses runtime performance, not how big the data is. And it does
not provide any concrete research results. Just unscientific individual
observations.

I want concrete numbers that discuss how vector graphics impact the size
of the animation.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

Just look up the storage and memory needs of a vector point (plus it's 
animation) and compare that to an RGB triplet.

It's pretty easy to find what you are looking for.

-j

On Sep 17, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote:

 Ross P. Sclafani skriver:
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/optimizing-mobile-performance.html
 
 
 That discusses runtime performance, not how big the data is. And it does
 not provide any concrete research results. Just unscientific individual
 observations.
 
 I want concrete numbers that discuss how vector graphics impact the size
 of the animation.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread Paul Andrews


On 17/09/2012 22:10, Jon Bradley wrote:

Just look up the storage and memory needs of a vector point (plus it's 
animation) and compare that to an RGB triplet.

It's pretty easy to find what you are looking for.


I don't think it's easy at all. A complex image with a lot of irregular 
detail may require more vector data to represent than a bitmap. 
Similarly an animation over multiple frames may require a lot of bitmaps 
to represent it, but relatively few vectors, particularly with tweening.


There is no absolute answer to the efficiency of vector representation 
versus bitmaps - it depends on what is being represented.


In general, many images can be represented with vector data more 
concisely than bitmaps so vectors would be more compact.


The problem of flash for mobile is as much about politics and protecting 
the Apple appstore than anything else -it seems to me that flash was a 
threat by allowing apps to be produced bypassing Apples appstore.


Adobe has said for years that mobile platforms should use bitmaps to 
conserve processor utilisation. The other real problem with flash is 
that some developers use inefficient processing loops that eat up 
processing power - I can often see it on my laptop when the fan suddenly 
kicks in after I've launched a flash app.





-j

On Sep 17, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote:


Ross P. Sclafani skriver:

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/optimizing-mobile-performance.html


That discusses runtime performance, not how big the data is. And it does
not provide any concrete research results. Just unscientific individual
observations.

I want concrete numbers that discuss how vector graphics impact the size
of the animation.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

Paul Andrews skriver:
 Adobe has said for years that mobile platforms should use bitmaps to
 conserve processor utilisation. The other real problem with flash is
 that some developers use inefficient processing loops that eat up
 processing power - I can often see it on my laptop when the fan suddenly
 kicks in after I've launched a flash app.
 

I am of the opinion that things can be stored as vectors and then cached
as bitmaps at runtime. The issue here is that the built in caching is
limited to just one version of each object and objects can't share caches.

Flash needs a more powerful caching system for rasterized vector art.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.

2012-09-17 Thread Ben Sand

Agreed.

By converting from vectored to rastered art for some of our complex
components we tripled the frame rate in Flash.

At the same time, we converted our character from 6MB to 42KB by converting
it from a sprite sheet into animated components in Flash, but it took the
artist quite a while! (still raster mind you, but not sprites)

On 17 September 2012 17:54, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote:

 Paul Andrews skriver:
  Adobe has said for years that mobile platforms should use bitmaps to
  conserve processor utilisation. The other real problem with flash is
  that some developers use inefficient processing loops that eat up
  processing power - I can often see it on my laptop when the fan suddenly
  kicks in after I've launched a flash app.
 

 I am of the opinion that things can be stored as vectors and then cached
 as bitmaps at runtime. The issue here is that the built in caching is
 limited to just one version of each object and objects can't share caches.

 Flash needs a more powerful caching system for rasterized vector art.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript lives on.