Re: [Gimp-user] Annoying Windows Layering
gimp-user-boun...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu wrote: Brian Weese wrote: I have the latest build of GIMP 2.6.6 ad running Windows XP. The Toolbox dialog and any dockable dialogs are ALWAYS in front of the file I am working on. I usually have the layers and brush dialogs open while I'm working on a file. I could increase the screen resolution but it makes the text so tiny... I have been able to work around it for now, but it is really annoying. Hi You can change the dock window hints in Edit - Preferences - Window Managment to Normal window if you don't want them as utility windows. Note that you can toggle visibility of docks with the Tab key. The utility feature seems to be broken in windows. I tried it for a little while but had to switch it off. I forget exactly why. I think some canvas windows would always be hidden if you had more than one file/view open in utility mode. I'd be more specific but I really can't remember. David Marrs Btw, (off topic) recently something changed on both gimp user and developer so that all emails appear to come from the mail bot rather than the original sender Thus, I never know who's talking in an email unless they sign themselves. I was fiddling around with my settings at the time but I'm pretty sure I set everything back to how it was. I wondered if someone made a change in the admin settings in an attempt to fix the annoying reply-to issue, cos that seems to work ok now. ---AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM)--- ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Nice features
gimp-user-boun...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu wrote: Hi DJ, On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:47 AM, DJ delphit...@yahoo.com wrote: Do the tear-away menus still exist? I didn't use them a lot when I first read about them a while back, but I remember that there were suppose to be a dashed line on sub-menus, and you'd grabbed them and the menu would tear away. I used it a little bit, but something came up and I wanted to revisit that, and I don't see the dashed lines any more at the top of sub-menus. http://docs.gimp.org/en/menus.html#detachable-submenus This depends on your GTK+ settings -- if you're using GNOME, it often likes to explicitly disable tearoffs; also, the rightclick menu can be different from the menubar in this aspect -- my menubars have no tearoffs, my right-click menu does have tearoffs. David Unfortunately, in Ubuntu 8.10, you don't seem to be able to enable menu tearoffs in gnome at all. I don't know if Gnome switched it off or what, but selecting it in gconf does nothing. I've searched the web for info about why it doesn't work (or even /if/ it doesn't work - maybe it's just me) but with no luck. David Marrs ---AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM)--- ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Question
Noel Burke wrote: My question is this: Yesterday when I installed the program and used it I had many tools and options in the windows. When I logged back into my computer today some of it was missing and I cannot figure out how to get it back. Do you have a go back to default settings button that brings all tools back up? Thanks for your help. I suspect you closed the layers dialogue at some point when you used the program. Gimp will remember how you organise your windows and reopen in whatever configuration it was last closed in. Typically, users like to have layers, channels and paths dialogues docked in an additional window to the toolbox and this is provided in the standard installation. You can reopen them at any time by going to File - Dialogues - Create New Dock - Layers, Channels Paths. You can also open additional dialogues and customise their layout to your heart's content. See the manual for further info or watch the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aR3o7rYdx0 Noel Burke Human Resource Specialist Eastway Corporation 600 Wayne Avenue Dayton, OH 45410 Phone: (937) 496-2000 Fax: (937) 463-2958 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user ---AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM)--- ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp - gimpshop - newbie
Perhaps I'm in danger of starting an argument here but some of your points surprise me a little. Manish Singh wrote: Maybe the creator of GimpShop should have respected the GIMP community instead of rejecting it. He did not consult anyone on any of the GIMP lists at all as to proper approaches, or even showed any interest in actually making useful contributions. Sorry, but surely the whole point of the free software movement is that it quite deliberately empowers users to do all of the things you've just objected to. If you're uncomfortable with people taking these liberties then maybe you should consider releasing your code under a proprietary licence. And who says GimpShop is not a useful contribution? The contribution to the Gimp project may be null but to the free software community it clearly fills a niche. Since GimpShop rejects the GIMP community, we respect that decision and do not support it here. If you have issues with this, take it up with the people who do GimpShop. They can't reject the community yet expect simultaneously expect it to provide support. Well actually, maybe they can because at least one member of this list provided an answer that the OP found helpful. And, to be honest, if it had been left at that we'd have 3 replies in this thread instead of 30. --- Scanned by M+ Guardian Messaging Firewall --- ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] 16 Bit files
David Southwell wrote: Anyone... Finally does anyone have a handle on the timeframe for 2.4?? Not really. I think you'll just have to be patient. Incidentally, unless you've got a pro camera and lens, a high quality, properly calibrated monitor and a very good printer, I really don't think you're going to benefit from the extra bit depth. Probably you know this already but I suspect many people out there are under the mistaken impression that they're losing quality if they use Gimp when really they're not. For a while I've been using Gimp in preference to Cinepaint because I felt that 8bpc was good enough and well worth the tiny sacrifice in quality for the massive gains in usability. But I was surprised to learn from a pro photographer friend recently that he forces his Photoshop down to 8-bits because, even with his set-up, he couldn't see the difference in quality. And he makes the reasonable point that he doesn't want to be manipulating bits he can't see. --- Scanned by M+ Guardian Messaging Firewall --- ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] [Gimp-web] FAQ Overhaul
Sven Neumann wrote: Thanks for your help. But it would probably help if you could give a pointer, or even a link, to which FAQ you are talking about. Sven oh yeah.. http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/UserFaq ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
[Gimp-user] [Gimp-web] FAQ Overhaul
Dear gimpers, The FAQ had a few cobwebs in it so I gave it a dust. It should feel more up-to-date now and actually relevant to version 2.2. If you can think of any frequently asked questions that should be added, please let me know or (better yet) add them yourself. Same applies to anything that should be removed. Finally, it would be nice if a link to the FAQ could be added to the message footers and/or to an auto-generated list etiquette monthly periodical. Regards, David ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Pan Tool keyboard shortcut
David Gowers wrote: 2.3.12 (the latest release is 2.3.15) ... I don't usually remember that some people seriously use software with less features in preference to using development releases. Well that's cos they're encouraged to. 2.2 is stable whereas 2.3 is unstable. Speaks for itself, really. ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp vs. Photoshop
Trapper wrote: Most English speakers generally relate gimp to the slang variant, most of us are familiar with it and most of us consider it to be something negative. Can I just change that to most American English speakers? I learnt the meaning of the slang word gimp while reading a similar discussion to this on a news forum a couple of years ago. ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Slowing things down
Lorraine Payette wrote: How do I move from getting every single posting to just a daily digest? Much as I love being able to access all this information, I need space for other things. Can someone help me stem the tide just a bit? The trouble with digest is that it doesn't let you thread email, so it's hard to follow a conversation (at least, I find it hard). You might find you get the best of both worlds by creating a filter for gimp-user and redirecting all mail for this list to its own folder. That way, your inbox remains uncluttered but conversations remain listed in a logical order. I filter on [To or CC = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, David ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp vs. Photoshop
John R. Culleton wrote: ON another list someone was complaining about the expense nad bother of upgrading to the latest Photoshop, including licenses etc. I suggested Gimp as a no cost/no fuss alternative for students. I received a long reply, much of which I am not technically competent to answer. I have never used Photoshop. Anyone else care to take a crack at one or more issues raised? I never really saw PS as the world's premier example of ease-of-use, but regardless, this guy's done his homework and has come out in favour of PS for his students. Surely he knows best? It seems a sensible enough choice to me, given its position as the industry standard. Since he's using Macs, he should probably put Seashore(1) on his watch list. It's a native fork of the Gimp, so it should help sooth his interface pains. I have no idea what the feature list is like though, or what their roadmap is. He may find it useful to look at in the future (as well as Gimp) if he's in this predicament again. Anyway, Digg, Slashdot et al should provide you with enough comparisons to make you wish you'd never started this thread. :p Regards, David (1) http://seashore.sourceforge.net/ ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Bug 119646 – add polygonal selecti on tool
Sven Neumann wrote: And what's the benefit then over using the paths tool? Remember, the goal here is to make it easier to create polygonal selections. You can already do that by using the Polygon mode of the path tool and converting the resulting path to a selection. Sure, you could also do it using vector layers. But does that make it easy? I don't think so. I suppose it depends on how quickly you can make shapes with vectors. If it's about the same as with paths then obviously you're right, but if we're talking Inkscape speeds then it could be useful. I fail to see why the free select tool should be modifed at all. Is it in any way related to the problem at hand? The problem of quickly creating a polygonal selection? You seconded the idea on the bugzilla thread. Perhaps we haven't even figured out yet what the problem is? Would be nice if the people who asked for the polygonal selection tool explained what they would use that tool for. What are common usage scenarios for such a tool? How does it fit into your workflow? Well, I'm not requesting it, but what I got from the bugzilla report - particularly the comic book illustrator - was that users want to be able to switch quickly between drawing straight lines and drawing squiggly lines. In other words, brush-like flexibility but through the select tool. Paths don't draw squiggles and free select doesn't do straight lines. So I'm exploring possible solutions. If a good one can't be found, that's fine by me. Regards, David ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] suggested behaviour change of layer masks
Sven Neumann wrote: You need to create a layer mask first, then paste into the layer mask. Thanks, I'll try that. ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
[Gimp-user] Bug 119646 – add polygonal selecti on tool
Continuing the discussion on bugzilla (1) I have a suggestion for a possble third way. I remember something being written about vector layers in gimp and found a reference to it at google.com (2). If there was a tool that enabled one to draw vectors, they could be stroked, converted to a selection or converted to paths at the user's will. Although it's not a quick fix to the problem, it does avoid the possible complication that comes with modifying the free select tool (for example, assigning shift to both add-to-selection and draw-straight-line modifiers) or adding yet another select tool that isn't quite free select and isn't quite bezier path. Regards, David Appendix --- (1) http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119646 (2) http://code.google.com/soc/gimp/appinfo.html?csaid=26F82BA0B5805CD9 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Future of Gimp ?
Anthony Ettinger wrote: On 12/8/06, Jerry Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I light of the Microsoft/Novell agreement and all of this talk about GPL 3, I was just curious if the gimp team has had any discussions on whether they will be moving to GPL 3 whenever it is completed. What are the implications? I haven't read about the MS/Novell GPL 3 thing. There was talk of adding a clause to v3 that would help secure free software against patent trolls in such a way that if Company A promises not to sue Company B for using an infringing algorithm in a GPLed application, that promise has to extend to every user of that application. In other words, if MS promise not to sue Novell over Mono, implicit in that agreement is the promise not to sue me over Mono, regardless of whether I'm running SuSE or something else. Personally, I'm in favour of GPLv3 anyway. All it's doing is closing loopholes that enable distributors to avoid granting me one or more of the freedoms I come to expect from free software. Regards, David ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Color selectors, which one do you use?
Sven Neumann wrote: Now the question is, which color selectors do you actually use? I have myself never found the Watercolor selector to be useful. But your mileage might vary. Tell me about it. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user Although I like the wheel, I never actually use anything but the default. David ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] modular GIMP
Sven Neumann wrote: You just described the image processing graph which is the basic concept we are trying to implement with GEGL. Sven Cool! :D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 09/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop
Eric P wrote: On Linux, I have no problem using a desktop solely for the Gimp, but on Windows (at work) I end up using a multi-desktop switcher to keep windows from getting out of hand (in numbers). Unfortunately, all the multi-desktop switcher programs I've tried (VirtuaWin, MegaScale MultiDesktop Manager, MS Virtual Desktop Manager) are a tad buggy and/or don't implement as well as the Unix model of multiple desktops. Yeah, on Windows the multidesktop is a waste of time. I've got it installed here and have used it once to try it out. I remember when I originally found out about it, I was quite excited about getting some Linux functionality back, but not so. As with everything Windows, it just works (oh, I love the double meaning of that slogan - why has nobody else picked up on it yet!?). Another curious thing: when I moved to Linux I found that immediately stopped using the desktop to store shortcuts or files. Now I'm using Windows again the desktop's filled back up. The point of all this is that Windows works in quite a different way to Linux, so its users, to get the most out of the system, also work in a different way. This is why they're always clamouring for MDI. Despite its major drawbacks it's still better than relying on Windows's own manager. In that sense, it *is* an improvement, but only for Windows users. Oh well, since this is primarily for Linux, maybe they should try a live CD. I think there is another way that can make the best of all worlds and I'll submit to bugzilla when I've finished working on it. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 09/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: when even free advertising fails
Sven Neumann wrote: Having all possible toggles visible in a toolbar in the image window be a major waste of screen estate. Sven Not being able to maximse the image window to full screen is a major waste of screen estate. All I'm talking about is sacrificing 20 pixels' worth of height. If you don't want it there then switch it off. Besides, I'm not talking about *all* the possible toggles, just the useful and important ones. I started working on this yesterday. When I've finished I'll put together a presentation for the list to consider. Btw, does this list allow attachments. I tried sending this earlier with a screenshot of what I've got so far attached, but without success. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: when even free advertising fails
Carol Spears wrote: it would be better and easier to insist that people work with the default gimp set up before making suggestions about where to put the information. thanks, carol Easier for whom? the users or the developers? Since there's only one GIMP set-up anyway, I don't see how it makes a difference; any suggestion I make is going to be a direct result of the default GIMP set-up that I'm using. I'm not biased by Photoshop, PSP or anything else, I'm just acutely aware of the user interface's short comings and I'm trying to address them. Making GIMP newbies (which I'm not, btw) learn the interface until they get used to it only means that they'll get used to the GIMP's short comings, not that they'll go away. It's just the same as how Windows users put up with their interface, all the time forgetting how restrictive it is. When it's all you can see, it becomes normal. It's only after you come back to Windows after spending months away, using a different OS like Linux+Gnome, that you suddenly realise how poor Windows actually is. If Microsoft were trying to get users to migrate from GNU/Linux to Windows, they'd be out of business in weeks. So I think you unwittingly hit the nail on the head with regard to the GIMP's problem: it insists that its users conform to its way of doing things instead of being malleable so that different users with different approaches can tailor it to suit their needs. Its approach obviously works for you, which is why you're happy with it. Just try to remember that your way isn't necessarily the *right* way. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: when even free advertising fails
Sven Neumann wrote: It was you who set it up that way. The default action of all selection tools is of course to replace the existing selection. The currently active mode is always shown in the tool-options. Sven Hmm, I can't imagine when I did this, but I suppose I must have clicked on one of the other buttons at some point. It would be nice if there was a toolbar in the canvas window itself with the main tool options repeated there. That would make it easier to tell at a glance what tool and option is selected. I know this can already be worked out from the cursor icon, but those who are new to GIMP probably won't understand what all the symbols mean and might not think to look in the toolkit window. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] modular GIMP
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a general question to throw out there: Is it feasible to have GIMP be modular in it's filters and image tools (basically all of the image processing stuff outside of painting)? I've worked in 3D with apps that have such an approach, where each module can be added / removed and the object(s) update accordingly. This would make image editing even more flexible, professional, and sexy (hehehe). This way, one doesn't worry as much about having to go thru a lot of undos when something goes wrong or the artist has a flash of inspiration that's on a totally different track than he/she was on before. I've been using GIMP for quite a while now, and I believe such functionality would really enhance the GIMP experience. Are you thinking of something like Blender's object viewer? I quite like the idea of seeing the signal path laid out in a modular form. You can see the channels flowing through the layers, which layers have filters operating on them and how this affects the signal. It would certainly be useful from the point of view of understanding how an image gets processed in the GIMP. I don't know how useful it would be as a tool in its own right, though. Perhaps you could use it to highlight problems you're having. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: when even free advertising fails
Sven Neumann wrote: Now what do you suggest? What kind of indication would you have expected? A message in the status bar makes sense to me. Off the top of my head, a marching-ants outline of an irregular shape (so as not to confuse with quick mask) with a red X struck through it and a tool tip that says selection not visible on mouse rollover. Better still, clicking the box would make selections visible, although a status bar is possibly not the best place to toggle options. Alternatively, rather than use the status bar, have a toolbar in the canvas window that includes this along with some other common and useful options. See my other reply for an example. I suggested a toolbar once before on this list and it's something I keep coming back to in my own mind as a possible way of solving a number of the niggles I'm having. It would be optional so that experienced users can switch it off if they feel they don't need it, and it should be customisable so that they can make better use of it. By default, it would simultaneously provide commonly needed tasks and important visual feedback as to the state of the canvas, brush etc. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] when even free advertising fails
Eric P wrote: David Marrs wrote: I *am* very grateful for the GIMP and think it says much for the spirit of free software. I also think it has some way to go before it becomes a mature product, Huh... the Gimp is not mature? Thank you for sharing that. I honestly didn't know! Shit... and while I'm at it, I best let my boss know ASAP that he's been paying me in a professional capacity to use an app that's not mature. It's a wonder I've gotten anything done at all! ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user Refined, then. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: when even free advertising fails
Olivier Ripoll wrote: Hey! If you think the FAQ section in (the excellent) Grokking the Gimp is a proof that the interface has to be improved, then you should install Gimp 2.0 or even 2.2. ;-) I'm running 2.2 and still find the FAQ invaluable. As an example, I thought I'd try toggling a selection. Bunks mentions in Ch.3 that it's easy to forget that you've toggled a selection so I thought I'd see if this is still the case: I opened an image and used the lasoo to make a quick selection. Hmm, that's odd... no marching ants. Let's try again, making sure the start and end points overlap... nope, still isn't working. Oh well, scrap that and use the elipse select. Use control-T to toggle its visibility. Is there any indication that visibility is switched off? No, which is why Bunks has scratched (his) head many times trying to figure out why...the GIMP no longer seemed to be working. In trying that just now, I (genuinely) couldn't get the lassoo to work. This is an example of the sort of problem I come across every time I try a new tool, or come back to one that I haven't used in a while. Because I've been using GIMP for a little while now, I'm getting used to the idea of holding down modifier keys. So it didn't take me long to figure out that I needed to hold down shift to make the selection. With a bit more playing, I finally figured out what the default lassoo action actually does. Maybe there's a good reason for having the primary action intersect and the secondary action add. Whatever it is, it's not to aid learning. I figured it out relatively quickly, but unless a newbie cottoned on to the idea, he would probably remain lost. I've quickly come to accept that the GIMP cannot be learned by mucking about with it and picking things up. One can't just launch the application and start making graphics with it. One needs to sit down with the manual, or a book, and learn it that way. Clearly the GIMP works well for some people, but not for me. It's an application that I'm starting to get, but the learning curve is often a frustrating one. Most people just simply wouldn't bother; they'd go use something else instead, regardless of whether or not it's free, proprietary, better or worse. In direct contrast, I was making some pretty cool graphics in Inkscape within minutes of first launching the application. I learned to get loads out it long before I ever looked at the manual. In fact, the manual, which I eventually discovered under the help section (a place I visited out of curiosity rather than necessity), merely served to confirm many of the operations I'd already learnt by myself. Granted, it's still a new app and has a long way to go before it becomes complicated, but, no matter how complicated it eventually becomes, it will always be childsplay to make graphics with it, because it's childsplay now. Write a set of typical tasks to be performed (e.g. removing red eyes from a photo, cropping and rescaling an image, opening, rotating right -or left- and saving to a new name and location) and find some volunteers to perform these tasks (classify them in several categories such as experienced gimp user, experienced PS user, totally new to image manipulation, granny / aunt Tilly). Then observe them while performing the tasks (one volunteer at a time), take notes of their comments, frustrations, the places they expected to find the functionnality, the time they spent, everything. Such a survey is always useful. Before launching it, present the protocol to us for comments of course. I don't think I'll be able to find the volunteers, but I can certainly document my own experiences with the GIMP, if you think they will be helpful. Kind regards, David -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] when even free advertising fails
Carol Spears wrote: for how many years now does Photoshop(TM) get free advertising on this mail list and the only thing that have to fill the free time with is that layers effect thing? a forum where they can constantly bombard and belittle TheGIMP and are free to do so and the best they can pull out of their over-extended reasoning is this layers effect stuff. do any gimp users think this is helping them? carol I think you have to accept that, on a gimp forum, people are going to discuss what they like and what they don't like about the gimp, while inevitably comparing it to the alternatives that are available. It's also a fact that people post to a user forum with problems more than they post with tales of glee. Perhaps that's a shame; I think it's inevitable. Since you bring it up, I was thinking just earlier today how frustrated I get when something suddenly stops working and I need to stop what I'm doing and look through the manual to find out what's wrong. The manual, btw, is always close at hand. I was wondering if it's' something I should discuss with the list or not. How can the interface be improved? What are its short comings? Does anyone else have this problem with it? Judging by Carey Bunks's FAQ section at the end of every chapter of Grokking the GIMP, yes. It would be nice to see some discussion of the GIMP's design, or its roadmap, or to feel that one can be involved in this project other than just by submitting bug reports or hacking code. As for layer effects, well perhaps you should ask the users what it is they get out of them. Who knows? You might learn something. Sometimes the GIMP helps me, sometimes it hinders me. That's how it is. Not being a programmer, there's not much I can do directly to change it. And since you'd rather I bite my lip about it, it's unlikely that anybody else will do anything about it either. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] when even free advertising fails
David Marrs wrote: Sometimes the GIMP helps me, sometimes it hinders me. That's how it is. Not being a programmer, there's not much I can do directly to change it. And since you'd rather I bite my lip about it, it's unlikely that anybody else will do anything about it either. Actually, that was a bit of a terse reply, now that I read it back. I can appreciate that you may well have put a lot into the GIMP as a developer and would like to see a bit of encouragement from its users. I *am* very grateful for the GIMP and think it says much for the spirit of free software. I also think it has some way to go before it becomes a mature product, but I think that it is only a matter of time before it is at least on a par with products like Photoshop, unless software patents beat us to it. But I would like to see more direct involvement with the users. It seems that you have the developers on the one hand and the users on the other. The developers provide a new release, the users assess it, the developers consider the criticism and the cycle continues. Inkscape has a much more social nature. Everyone chips in; it feels very much like it's our software. There are requests for users to help out in various ways and everyone can help somehow if he wants to. There's also a clear roadmap so that we can see what's coming and make suggestions about how certain features might be implemented. Their mailing list is much more optimistic because, I think, users feel that this is their project that they are helping make. I'm not sure that users feel that way about the GIMP. I don't, to be honest. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp 2.2.6 on Fedora Core 3
Steve Stavropoulos wrote: On 4/17/05, Asif Lodhi wrote: I have managed to get Fedora Core 3 installed on my computer through nightly downloads in around 26 days. But the Gimp version is 2.04. Redhat updated gimp to 2.2 shortly after the release of fedora 3. Your best chance to get this working is to run yum update gimp* This will download and install gimp 2.2.4 and any other software needed. (I _strongly_ suggest to also do a yum update gtk2*) ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user I recommend you download the alternative yum.conf file from fedorafaq.org to get access to some of the faster and better maintained repositories, if you haven't already. If these fail to include an rpm you want, there are a number of rpm databases that can be searched for binaries in other repositories (rpmfind.net, nrpms.net and rpm.pbone.net are a few). Best of all though, do a google search and you'll almost certainly find your package if it exists. In order to do an effective search you'll need to understand the nomencalture of an rpm, but just looking at the names of the files should show you what you need to search for (ie. gimp-2.2.6 .fc3 .rpm). If you can't find an rpm for a popular app like the GIMP, wait around for a couple of days. One's bound to be put out eventually. Anyway, I found an rpm here: http://www.nrpms.net/Packages/fedora-3-i386/production/gimp.html You can try installing it by downloading it to a local directory and typing rpm -ivh path/to/filename.rpm at the console. If it throws up dependancy issues and there aren't too many then download those and try again. Try and get them from the standard repos if you can (yum install dependancy). Failing that, you can download all the dependancies to your local folder and then add some instructions to the yum.conf file to include it as a repository. You should be able to work out how to do this by studying the contents of that file, it's not very difficult to understand. (Do yourself a favour and back it up before you start editing it, though. Just in case accidentally delete something you didn't want to.) Once you've done this, typing yum update gimp should install the rpm and resolve dependancies for you. You should see the local directory be mentioned in the list of searched repositories if you edited the yum.conf file correctly. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.16 - Release Date: 18/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Olivier Ripoll wrote: David Marrs wrote: Olivier Ripoll wrote: You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be on top. This way, you always have it available... Try as I might, I cannot find this option! Preferences-Window Management-Hint for the toolbox-keep above I'm not entirely sure what this achieves but I didn't notice any difference in window behaviour. Maybe it's because I'm running the windows port? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a nutshell, yes. That feature is not yet available in the windows port (or at least it wasn't last time I checked). That feature is implemented in the Win32 port of GDK so it is supposed to work. Actually, the main reason for adding this to GIMP was that it is supposed to work on Windows. If it doesn't work, someone should file a bug report on it. Otherwise this is not going to be fixed ever. Sven In that case I'd better confirm exactly how this is supposed to work so that I can submit a meaningful and legitimate bug. At the moment I have The main window (containing tools, brushes etc) and a canvas window open. If I move the canvas window so that it obscures the main window I have to either reselect the main window or press [TAB] to bring it to the front (but [TAB] will also work without the window manager hints selected to keep above, so I don't think it's what you're talking about). Is there another modifier key I have to press or should the main window simply always be on top? I currently have keep above as the selected option for both docks and the toolbox (main window?) I don't know what utility window does either. David -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Alpha Channel
cedric wrote: I wonder why, when Opening or creating a document, there are only 3 color channel and then, when creatin a layer, the alpha is coming. What this stand for ? Cedric The bottom layer cannot be transparent, as far as I'm aware, so it does not have an alpha channel associated with it. You can still export transparent gifs and pngs though. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
[Gimp-user] Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
I posted this to the c.g.a.gimp group initially but was told that this might be a better place for it. I wanted to discuss it before submitting it as a feature requeset to bugzilla. That way other users of the GIMP can bring their ideas to it (like, whether or not they like it!) and I can make it a bit more focused where it's uncertain (see *highlighted* sentance): - - - - It once again occured to me after recently discovering the stroke/fill option that there are many commonly used operations associated with tools that are difficult for users to find. Drawing shapes is a good example of this. GIMP - it has to be said - is not the most intuitive application in the world. In fact, to utilise tools, one must either open a menu or go to one of the dialogues docked in another window to get at the options one needs, which can be frustrating if it's obscured by the window you're working in. I'm often making 3 or 4 clicks to make a simple change. So, why not associate a toolbox with each tool that can be opened by right clicking in the image window. Currently, right clicking simply opens the menubar, which can be accessed twice already from the image window: it seems like a waste of a mouse button to me. Much better to be able to perform common tasks, such as path to selection or stroke path instead. *Precisely what should go in these toolboxes I'm not sure.* You could also make it flexible and do what you do already with dialogues, providing a number of presets while allowing users the option to customise the toolkit themselves (a system that works excellently imo). - - - - Btw, this is (more or less) my first post to the mailing list. So I'd just like to say hello to all other gimpers out there and, of course, thank you to any developers watching. David -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Alpha Channel
Jeffrey Brent McBeth wrote: On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:57:56PM +0100, David Marrs wrote: cedric wrote: I wonder why, when Opening or creating a document, there are only 3 color channel and then, when creatin a layer, the alpha is coming. What this stand for ? Cedric The bottom layer cannot be transparent, as far as I'm aware, so it does not have an alpha channel associated with it. You can still export transparent gifs and pngs though. Err, unless I am misunderstanding you, you are wrong. Yup, sorry. I should know that, having made bottom layers transparent in the past! (wtf?) I don't know where I got that from. Put it down to lack of coffee. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Olivier Ripoll wrote: You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be on top. This way, you always have it available... Try as I might, I cannot find this option! Not everyone is using the menubar (it is optional, see the prefences): I do not. I find it unpractical since I very often use Gimp to work on small images. I think long time gimp users might also use preferentially the right-click menu to the menubar: It allows a faster/more straightforward access to the functionality. To summarise my personal opinion: The right click menu is one of the best things introduced by Gimp. But even with the menubar switched off it can still be accessed by clicking the right-facing arrow in the top left corner of the screen, so you don't *need* the right-click. I'm not saying that it shouldn't continue to be accessible by right-clicking. It could always be a preference option, or a Shift+click option. Compared to the way I use Gimp (toolbox never obstructed by image windows), I found that your way to access the tool options is demanding more click (1 click) that the present way (0 click). I'm not talking about reproducing the toolkit in the main gimp window, I'm talking about a separate toolbox that includes basic options (preferably not found in the toolkit) in order to make the GIMP faster and (crucially) more intuitive. Stroke selection is an obvious example here. Currently the only way I know to do this is from the Edit menu. Having this available on right click would be nice. As a general rule of thumb, users expect to be able to extend the use of a tool/app/whatever on right-click anyway. This is simply a continuation of that process. I don't really see why it should cause problems for more experienced users who would easily be able to turn the option off if they didn't like it, but I think it might help newbies and less experienced users. I also think it's a more logical use of the right mouse-button. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
