Re: [h-cost] Tear-away briefs...
At 18:36 06/07/2007, you wrote: Hello, all - I've got an interesting theatrical costume project. Am helping with a production of The Rocky Horror Show, and one character wants tear-away briefs for underneath his very short kilt. snip I was told once by a fellow costumer who once worked for one of the many Chippendale's dance teams is that velcro was far too strong for tear-away clothing; too much wear and tear on the fabrics and the release was unreliable. What they used were little snaps, like the snaps used for baby clothing. I've never had occasion to use this technique, but I stored it away in my brain *just in case* I ever have occasion to sew for an ecdysiast... Richard in MI I've used a couple of stitches in the right places. You have to use proper cotton thread though - polyester and silk don't break easily enough. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tear-away briefs...
At 18:45 06/07/2007, you wrote: OK, Richard. I hate not knowing a word so I had to look it up: eckysiast: n. a striptease performer ORIGIN 1940: coined by HL Mencken from the Greek ekdusis 'shedding,' on the pattern of 'enthusiast' I don't know when I'll have the opportunity to use it except in conjunction with my 2 year old niece, but it's a great word! Thanks, LynnD I remember that the script for Gypsy - the Broadway musical, not the film, used it - Gypsy Rose either called herself an ecdesiast, or one of the strippers, during the number You've gotta have a gimmick used it in dialogue. (I was wardrobe mistress in the West end - Angela Lansbury version - not a fun experience!) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1620 dress images?
At 02:19 05/07/2007, you wrote: more pictures http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Various_8.htm perhaps the Margo Anderson pattern might help as the hanging sleeve is a carry over from the late 1500s. De Thanks - I had all these that are relevant. I don't have time to get patterns - I have The Tudor Tailor and Hunnisett - I just wanted something different! Suzi -Original Message- http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/1600dress_9.jpg Thank you - there a couple there I had not come across before - I just wish they'd turn round do I could see the hanging sleeves better!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1620 dress images?
At 10:39 05/07/2007, you wrote: Actually I was thinking you could have a look online at the pattern. The site doesn't allow you to go directly to the pattern so, http://www.margospatterns.com/ You want the Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe (click on it) Then scroll down to the Eight sleeve styles to have a rough idea of the long sleeve. Thanks, but I have patterns for sleeves like those, from Hunnisett, and have actually made long sleeves like that for another garment. http://tinyurl.com/2gmgoq This is my current favourite - I like the split at the bottom edge. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Was: [h-cost] 1620 dress images?; Now: Leaving the business?
At 11:14 05/07/2007, you wrote: Wait a second! Aside from all the interesting suggestions that people have made about sleeves, what's this about hanging up your scissors? Are you getting out of the historical costuming business? (I am sorry if you are - I have always admired your work!) If so, what is that made you decide to do so? I am old and tired and want to spend time doing something other than working for other people - I have so many projects that I have started over the years, that I would really like to finish. I have a room full of fabric bought to make family clothes one day - and come February next year, when I turn 65 that day will happen!! I have already slowed down this year, only making 3 or four interesting costumes, plus of course 5 outfits, including bride and bridesmaid, for the family wedding. I will take on something if it interests me, but am fed up of late nights and long working weeks - my own fault as I am useless at starting anything until the last minute! Thanks for the compliment, by the way. And to the rest of the group, what is it you really dislike about costuming for pay or as a living? I really, really dislike machining! I love all the customer liaison, designing and cutting the pattern, fitting the outfit, and all the hand finishing, but that bloomin' machine just bugs me! Unfortunately, the girl or two I had hoped would do some of that work for me, so I could continue on a smaller scale, wasn't as keen as she had seemed, so yes, I will be retiring from sewing for others - and I am really looking forward to it. My lectures, and occasional articles, and research and volunteering at the Museum of London will continue as long as people ask me! Sorry - a longer answer than I planned! Suzi Jennifer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: July 04, 2007 7:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] 1620 dress images? I am making this dress for a customer, before I finally hang up my scissors, and wondered if there are any other images I can use for reference. Everything except the hanging sleeves is cut out, but the patterns I am using for them are a bit boring. However, I don't want to use the scallops in the original, so any other inspiration would be helpful. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/1600dress_9.jpg Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] embroidered corset
At 08:58 05/07/2007, you wrote: In the book 18th century embroidery teckniques, there is a corset wich is very elaborate embroidered all over. It has shoulderstraps and laces center back. I am very keen in making a similar one, having in mind to mix it with a pink taffeta i baught in Rome. I was thinking about making the corset in ivory taffeta, and maybe make some of the flowers in the pink collour of the taffeta. Then i could make a petticoat to go with it in the pink taffeta. Any suggestions about how this corset would have ben worn? Perhaps it could be used very informal for a picknic, wearing a nice chemise with cotton laces, and make the skirt angle lenght with small pocket hoops? Maybe i could piece the bottom of the skirt with same ivory taffeta, and embroider a border round the hem? How do you think the corset was worn? Bjarne I don't think this is a corset/stays for wearing under clothes. I have seen a very similar one at the Museum of London, which is considered to be a bodice. It has the same tabs which are not embroidered, and are for wearing under the skirt, while the point goes over. There is one in the museum at Bath which has matching sleeves - this is red and white, if I remember right. There are paintings of Danish queens, who have similar bodices and very lacy sleeves,with the frills facing both down and up, which indicates court dress. These can be found in Ellen Andersen's book on 18th century clothing. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Slashed Skirts
At 16:51 05/07/2007, you wrote: If you ever get a chance to look at Roy Strong. The English Icon: Elizabethan and Jacobean Portraiture. London: The Paul Meloon Foundation for British Art, Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1969.There is set of portraits of two women, clearly in the same dress, which is slashed so heavily, it looks almost looks like rags! It looks very strange! Saragrace These two ladies are sisters - the portraits used to be on show as part of the Iveagh Bequest at the Ranger's House in Greenwich. I don't know where the collection is currently displayed, if at all. The only differences in the paintings seem to be the lace on the ruffs and cuffs, and I think on the handkerchiefs. Legend has it that the dresses were bridesmaids' dresses (!) and were conspicuous consumption clothes - they could afford to have clothing that was slashed!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Costumes in Madrid?
I'll be going to Madrid again in a few weeks. I plan on finishing off the third floor of the Prado, visiting the Borne-Misza Museum again and showing my DH the Palacio Real. However, I have at the back of my mind that there is a costume museum there, that I missed a couple of years ago. Does anyone know of this - am I right? Details please if so. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1620 dress images?
At 19:36 05/07/2007, you wrote: This is a fascinating gown. Do you know where the original picture is? I would love a really good copy. This is now at Kenwood House, apparently, in North London. It was formerly at the Ranger's House in Blackheath, and I thought was part of the Iveagh Bequest. However, I understand it is actually part of the Suffolk Collection of mostly Jacobean portraits. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Costumes in Madrid?
At 19:50 05/07/2007, you wrote: Dont recall the details, but its called Museo de Traje. Wished i could go with you. Rome was so borring this year, my 3rd visit, and i thoaght there would be so many other things to see, but when you have seen most of the things there, its borring to see it again. In Lisboa they have also a Museo de Traje, wich also is very nice, but Lisboa is far from Madrid. Bjarne I'll be going to Madrid again in a few weeks. I plan on finishing off the third floor of the Prado, visiting the Borne-Misza Museum again and showing my DH the Palacio Real. However, I have at the back of my mind that there is a costume museum there, that I missed a couple of years ago. Does anyone know of this - am I right? Details please if so. Thank you - I have all the details now from the website - Museo del Traje - and although it is quite some distance from where we will be staying, I think a little trip might be arranged. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Costumes in Madrid?
At 20:27 05/07/2007, you wrote: And you are in the UK, so they may not be as exciting for you, but I enjoyed the two stores that specialize in church equipment, including vestments, and a store that sells mostly flamenco costumes, including a wall of roses in every color you can think of (they do have other costumes, too). Didn't make the costume museum on my last trip, but it is definitely on my list if and when I go back. Ann Wass Thanks - we have great vestment shops just behind Westminster Abbey if you are ever this way - £120.00 per metre plus, and gold thread embroidered - drool!! The flamenco store sounds fun, but as usual, the trip won't be long enough for everything - and I was only there 2 years ago! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1620 dress images?
At 21:34 05/07/2007, you wrote: Nice. Someone may have already suggested it but how about some small lace along the edge as an option? metallic? Or combine the split and gold lace? I have some gold/crimson/blue brocade left from the underskirt which will edge inside the sleeve, plus whatever is left of the 50 metres of gold braid/lace which I am sewing to the crimson/blue shot taffeta of the skirt, bodice and sleeves - this will shine, you can be sure of that!! De whose brain this week seems to be in first gear and slips into neutral periodically. -Original Message- Thanks, but I have patterns for sleeves like those, from Hunnisett, and have actually made long sleeves like that for another garment. http://tinyurl.com/2gmgoq This is my current favourite - I like the split at the bottom edge. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Thoughts on the cut of Schaube/Sleeve
At 00:02 06/07/2007, you wrote: Ugh, sorry about the links. http://public.fotki.com/wickedfrau/schaube/mansschaube.html http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Taufe-Christi-1556-Detail.jpg The man's sleeve can be seen on Holbein's iconic painting of Henry Vlll, (tucked in behind the puff sleeve and hanging below the elbow) and one or two portraits of Edward Vl. At least I think they are the same, or very similar. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Henry_VIII.htm http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Edward_Vl.htm Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1620 dress images?
I am making this dress for a customer, before I finally hang up my scissors, and wondered if there are any other images I can use for reference. Everything except the hanging sleeves is cut out, but the patterns I am using for them are a bit boring. However, I don't want to use the scallops in the original, so any other inspiration would be helpful. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/1600dress_9.jpg Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1620 dress images?
At 21:21 04/07/2007, you wrote: Bohemia http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1610_2.shtml spain http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1606_1.shtml english http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/161x_6.shtml baveria http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1613_1.shtml france http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/161x_4.shtml denmark http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1623_3.shtml german http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1623_1.shtml -Original Message- http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/1600dress_9.jpg Thank you - there a couple there I had not come across before - I just wish they'd turn round do I could see the hanging sleeves better!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Luttrell Psalter Period Query
On behalf of a costuming colleague, as I don't know much about this period I have a query about 14th century hose. Some of the illustrations in the Psalter show men wearing hose without shoes or boots. Can you direct me to any information about this practice - or am I just misinterpreting the images? Can anyone help - I will pass on information. Also, can anyone remind me how one joins please - my colleague would like to join us. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need a term...
At 18:17 26/06/2007, you wrote: A friend asks: What do you call those sort of bloomers that men wore with hose in the 16th c in France. They are rounded in outline, striped, come to about mid thigh. Evidently he's looking for a French term, though if there's an obvious English one I'll send him that as well. I believe the term is Les hauts-de chausses. Taken from Flammarion's Le Costume part ll La Renaissance -le style Louis Xlll by Jacques Ruppert. I cannot find an exact translation of the above phrase, but the accompanying picture makes it clear that these are trunk hose, as they are generally called in England. Longer versions, to the knee, are called h-d-c- a lodiers. (Sorry no accents - don't know how!) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need a term...
At 19:23 26/06/2007, you wrote: I've never heard of pansied slops. I wonder where the name came from. Aha--another online reference says it came from Winter and Savoy's book, which is almost completely untrustworthy. I would treat this term with skepticism until a 16th-century reference can be found--does anyone have one? Just curious, Melanie On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:02 PM, Chiara Francesca wrote: Did he mean these possibly? http://lynnmcmasters.com/elizmanslopscloseup.html Pansied slops. ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume This could be a translation of la panse or pourpoint a panseron which were derogatory terms for the clothes worn by the feminine gentlemen of the court of Henri lll - les hommes effemines. (Although these seem to refer to the doublet, rather than the breeches or trunk hose.) (Ruppert again.) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need a term...
At 19:42 26/06/2007, you wrote: On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:35 PM, Suzi Clarke wrote: This could be a translation of la panse or pourpoint a panseron which were derogatory terms for the clothes worn by the feminine gentlemen of the court of Henri lll - les hommes effemines. (Although these seem to refer to the doublet, rather than the breeches or trunk hose.) (Ruppert again.) Interesting connection! Speaking of Henri's mignons, I once had a digital copy of a painting of them. IIRC, it was a bust-length painting of three guys in profile with their hair done up like women. Does anyone know where I could find this again? It was so wonderfully unusual, but somehow it disappeared. I have a copy of this in an American costume book, which I cannot get at right now - would it be The Mirror of Fashion? I will go look if you want. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Big Four doll pattern?
I am making a sorta Victorian wedding dress for my daughter-in-law-elect, and would love to make a soft, small doll in a copy of the dress. Can anyone recommend a Big Four type pattern (easy and quick are the important words) that I can buy here in the U.K. I do not have the time or inclination to try and buy from the U.S., which is why I need a pattern available in the U.K. I do not need a pattern for the dress, as I am making it up as I go along - the real one I mean! Or even an online pattern would be good. It is .years since I made a Raggedy Anne doll, and that pattern is nowhere near suitable. TIA Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Big Four doll pattern?
At 13:06 23/06/2007, you wrote: Suzi, Vogue has a cute 18 soft doll pattern 8336 named Sarah.? I have not made this, so have no clue how it works up, but it looks interesting enough to try if I had the time.? Scoff.? Scoff.? Good luck with all. ~Kimberley Thanks - she's cute. I never thought to look on-line - duh!! McCalls do a Sophie which is quite pretty too. I'd still like to know if anyone has used either of the patterns though. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Your dream costume
At 21:41 18/06/2007, you wrote: The Holbein Anne of Cleves, down to the smallest detail. And THEN anything by Bjarne. And then somewhere to wear them. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Jun 18, 2007, at 4:21 PM, Hanna Zickermann wrote: I love the red dress from Bram Stoker´s Dracula. And I am fascinated by those medieval grand assiette sleeves. My dream is to be able to flat-draft the pattern for every measurement someday. But that´s just the skill and not the costume of my dreams... Hanna At 16:54 18.06.2007, you wrote: I was thinking of what my next costume would be and I came to an interesting question. What would be your dream costume? If you wouldn't be limited by money or your own expertise. The crimson velvet dress/dressing gown from Gone with the Wind, the figure to wear it, and Clark Gable or my dream man, to carry me up those stairs. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Women in Art Retrospective
At 18:00 13/06/2007, you wrote: Thank you Anne. http://tinyurl.com/23mle4 Enjoy! Anne Am I the only one that thinks this is quite horrible? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Women in Art Retrospective
At 18:40 13/06/2007, you wrote: In a message dated 6/13/2007 1:05:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Am I the only one that thinks this is quite horrible? *** Hahahaha! Yes! Why? The metamorphosis between faces reminds me of nothing less than the transformations in werewolf movies. An American Werewolf in London in particular has the whole face stretching and morphing. Ugh! I accept that it is very clever, but goodness it gives me the creeps. Too many horror movies in my youth no doubt! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] RE: Things to do in DC
At 04:28 12/06/2007, you wrote: I have stayed at the Harrington. Not elegant, but clean and reasonable, in a great location. Kim http://www.hotel-harrington.com/ I second the Harrington. We stayed there last year on recommendation from this list, and it is within walking distance of everywhere we wanted to go on a short trip. Suzi I will be in Washington DC with my husband for two and a half days in late July. The exhibitions so far described sound interesting, especially the one on Red at the Textile Museum and the Italian Renaissance and Baroque Women Painters I hope they will still be on, and I would also be grateful for advice on any really good fabric shops there, though if I remember right this was discussed not long ago and there wasn't much. Can any one also recommend (off-list since it isn't topical) a good, reasonably priced hotel which is fairly central to the Smithsonian musuems? I'm really looking forward to this - it will be the first time we have been to Washington except for a stopover at the airport (which doesn't count :-) Annette Wilson in wintery Canberra, Australia ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Town Crier
At 17:28 11/06/2007, you wrote: I have a friend who wants me to make him a costume for an American colonial Town Crier. He says he's seen an illustration with the Crier in, judging from what he describes, as an English Smock. Would this be so? Of course I want him in a coat and waistcoat [even if the smock is correct, I still have to do breeches and a shirt]. He may just not want to fool with a coat [It's hot.]. I wondered if the Crier was some kind of city official...like with a uniform or something to indicate his office. I suppose that might depend on the town. Any thoughts and/or directions on research would be greatly appreciated. If you Google Town Crier, (Images) you will find a number if pictures of Town Criers, all in pseudo 18th century gear. This is what I remember from my childhood in Stratford on Avon. See also Beadle, who was a similar status official. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: OT day job (cats)
At 23:36 06/06/2007, you wrote: Good lord, and I thought we were getting carried away by taking in a local stray bringing it up to 3!!! :o) And every single one of them is beautiful - she's a meanie and wouldn't let us bring a few home - she wouldn't miss a few, I'm sure!! Suzi In a message dated 06/06/2007 19:01:33 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Try 15 cats! Anne (retired fro Ma Bell but still works part time for Lillian Vernon) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Florence in 2008?
At 12:49 06/06/2007, you wrote: Suzi: I would love to see the costumes you talk about but I am not sure where they are on this site. Are they part of the Downloads: Demo? I think those are PowerPoint projects so I will have to get to a computer with that software. Thanks! Jenn Jenn They are on the demo, which plays on my computer without any extra software. Right at the end there are some photos, one of which is the gentleman in a copy of the Sture suit, In the photo to its right, there is a lady in black, whose costume I also made. They were taken at the memorial held for Janet at the Globe Theatre, not long after her death. This, if it shows, is the gentleman in a photo I took on the same occasion. http://www.suziclarke.co.uk/images/sture_suit_1560.jpg It is on the Gallery of my web site - www.suziclarke.co.uk quite a way through. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Florence in 2008?
At 13:19 06/06/2007, you wrote: They are great costumes, Suzi. It is nice to see Ms. Arnold's work in the flesh and used by costumers. Your website is quite impressive. Monica Thank you - I appreciate your kind words. I was lucky enough to have great tutors. Suzi They are on the demo, which plays on my computer without any extra software. Right at the end there are some photos, one of which is the gentleman in a copy of the Sture suit, In the photo to its right, there is a lady in black, whose costume I also made. They were taken at the memorial held for Janet at the Globe Theatre, not long after her death. This, if it shows, is the gentleman in a photo I took on the same occasion. http://www.suziclarke.co.uk/images/sture_suit_1560.jpg It is on the Gallery of my web site - www.suziclarke.co.uk quite a way through. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: Off Topic: What's your day job?; Was: robe a la francai
At 13:00 05/06/2007, you wrote: I make costume for a living too... historical stuff for museums and re-enactors mostly - odd bit of tv chucked in - I also make bridal and evening wear, etc. oh, and have my first british army commision as a tailor now, so most definitely full time :o) debbie Until I decided I'd had enough and started planning my retirement I was a full time professional costume maker, and when I say full time, that often included evenings and weekends. Therefore I have loads of personal projects unfinished, because I do not like sewing for me and my family when I have been sewing for others all week. Suzi 2 months is an impressively short amount of time for such a project! I get the sense from messages I have read that most folks on this list do not make/study/write about historical clothing for a living. Is this true? If so, what do you all do to fund your need to build historical clothing? I am an attorney by day but I am fascinated with all types of historical clothing from about the 15th century through the 19th. Someday I will focus on one time period but I haven't yet. Jennifer I make costumes, mostly for reenactors, but I do a few theatrical productions, too. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Florence in 2008?
At 01:59 05/06/2007, you wrote: For the Italian costuming enthusiasts: http://www.costume-textiles.com/index.htm --Robin The promo on the site shows costumes I made, and Janet approved!! I would love to go, but hate to think what the cost will be. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert?
At 17:51 15/05/2007, you wrote: I have a couple of questions regarding construction, fabric selection etc. The major problem I have with my pattern for split drawers, is they tend to creep and bunch up in you know where. Is there some relationship to crotch depth, amount of overlap, fabric types that you have experimented with which would help with this phenomenon? Thanks, The lady in question is Elizabeth Stewart Clark. http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/ Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat
At 11:00 14/05/2007, you wrote: Hi everyone, A friend is throwing a costume party next month and has decided the theme is 'an Irish wake' so she wants everyone in black or green, so when the topic of mourning comes up I tend to think Victorian as I already had plans for a natural form dress I just decided to bump this project to the top of my list and make it mourning wear. But I'm stuck on headwear, I have a chiffon scarf that would work OK as a widow's veil. It is a long thin rectangle so it won't work just draped over my head, but if I attach the long side to the edge of a hat it should work OK as a veil (I experimented with pinning it to the inside of my sun hat and it came down to about an inch below my shoulders). I have about 1/2 a metre of buckram (though it's not proper millinery buckram) and some wire left over from making the crescent of my 16th century French hood plus some scraps of black velveteen or satin to cover it. I've also got Butterick 4210 which I might be able to adapt, but I don't have money to buy a bonnet and I don't really want to spend much money on this costume (as the only place I can usually wear Victorian stuff is a dance so bonnets/hats aren't really appropriate) thanks Elizabeth Do you have a thrift shop/charity shop anywhere near, where you could buy a hat, and alter it to suit? I once made a costermonger's hat, like Eliza Doolittle, from a fairground Kiss me Quick hat in cardboard felt. I took off the band with KMQ on it, replacing it with some silk ribbon and net, and added a couple of artificial flowers from my stash. It worked really well. You could cover a straw boater, or reblock a felt shape and cover with fabric, and all at very little cost. It does not have to be a bonnet - boaters, and hats in felt or straw of that shape were also worn. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Button question
At 14:13 09/05/2007, you wrote: An interesting item is on eBay, a set of buttons with matching bar pins and some strange, metal curly things. Can anyone tell me what these were for? Search for item # 320110929170 Kim These are for a dress/evening suit, I would imagine. They may be for a shirt, or possibly a waistcoat*. There will be eyelet holes in the shirt/waistcoat instead of buttonholes. The buttons will have small rings on the backs, which go through the eyelets, then the curly things slide through the rings, which secures them. My husband has a beautiful set in blue. * I have Victorian waistcoats which fasten like this - it means you can was them without spoiling the buttons. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] womans mid 18th century hair cape
At 14:20 08/05/2007, you wrote: I have tryed to find a picture with a cut of how the womens hair capes in mid 18th century was cut. I cant find any. Does anybody know any online pictures for that? Bjarne The only one I know of is this one of Mme de Pompadour at her Toilette, by Francois Boucher. Sorry about the long link - don't know how to shorten it! http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/pompa4.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/highlt.htmlh=280w=224sz=24hl=enstart=1tbnid=x7MgeJIZg1L1gM:tbnh=114tbnw=91prev=/images%3Fq%3DMme%2Bde%2BPompadour%2Bin%2Bher%2BToilette%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting
At 16:43 08/05/2007, you wrote: As someone already pointed out, it is a William Buytewech painting. The orginal (the one where if you actually look closely, you can see the tip of the anatomy.) is at Kaiser-Friedrich-Museums, Berlin. The one on Bildindex attributes it to the same artist and to the same museum. The only other painting I remember showing this sort of thing is a Breughel - (a younger as I recall) of a woman squatting in the woods. I am sure it is more common than we see. I guess on of the big French palaces(Versailles?) didn't originally have any bathrooms and I recall hearing often of folks relieving themselves in stairways and fireplaces. There is also a gentleman relieving himself by sitting on a window sill, with his backside outside, and p***ing into the river below. Can't unfortunately remember the name or the actual painting, (the artist is, I think, Heironymus Bosch,) but it is in the bottom left hand side. The gentleman is not one of his grotesques, but apparently an ordinary person. Daft what you DO remember, isn't it?! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Theater vs. Historic now 6 wives
(snip) picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. (snip) My friend saw those costumes in person some years back. They were mostly made of muslin and painted to look like velvets, etc. She said they were amazing! Much of the jewellery was made from bottle tops (usually from bottles of Coke) filled with resin, and chains from bathroom stores. Patterns on fabrics were made by spraying colour through lace on to cheap velvet and furnishing (drapery) fabrics. You can see original publicity photos of the BBC series on my website here. http://suziclarke4384.fotopic.net/c461806.html The Wives had most of their costumes made by Jean Hunnisett, who also made all of Glenda Jackson's costumes for Elizabeth R. Incidentally, many of the techniques used in The 6 Wives had been pioneered, in England anyway, in the two main theatre companies, the RSC and the National. The RSC in particular, had a series of plays costumed in dyed fabrics, and sprayed with a mixture of latex and gold paint powder. This style of costuming began in the 60's with the complete Histories series of plays. (They did Richard ll to Richard lll in one season, 1964.) Somewhere I still have samples of some of the fabrics from when I worked there in 1967-9. Suzi (still nostalgic for the old RSC - it ain't the same these days!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
At 00:54 03/05/2007, you wrote: This reminds me of... One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These would grace any stage quite nicely. Owning originals that are Not comfortable for actual modern wear, in a 'Costumesituation, these would do quite nicely if done in the usual muslin of their counterparts. Many English originals were made in Horrocks long cloth, which is almost a sheeting weight cotton, which washes and washes. Certainly in England muslin/calico was not frequently used for underwear. All the extant night gowns and underthings I have are longcloth or the equivalent of a shirting cotton - quite crisp. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] i cant deside.........
At 20:01 30/04/2007, you wrote: If you would give me your 2 cents, i would be very pleased. I spended this day desiding wich trim to use on the red francaise dress i am going to make. But desided i have not yeat! On the left side i made box pleatings with a tiny gold trim in the edge. On the right side i have made the trim ruched and used a bigger gold trim. I think the left box pleated side is two boring, its flat, and not at all like i wanted it, the ruched one gives more shading to the silk. Is the gold trim two much? What do you think? http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-35.htm Bjarne My thoughts are that left hand one, with the tiny trim, is more authentic looking, as many of the decorative trims are as precise as that one. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] hand rolled hems
At 22:46 30/04/2007, you wrote: Sewing birds? Anyone have a pic they would like to share? :-) There is one on E-Bay http://cgi.ebay.com/SEWING-BIRD-1853-Replica-Pin-Cushion-Gold-Plated-Brass_W0QQitemZ320107288625QQihZ011QQcategoryZ114QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Mine is identical, but came from a U.S. catalogue of pretty things, ages ago, so I don't remember the name of it - sorry. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1580s open robes and closed robes or ropas
At 17:07 29/04/2007, you wrote: Melanie, What are the diaphanousthingscovering her lower sleeves? Looks like the artist was going for a soap bubble effect or something... Laurie http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownLady50.jpg They are probably cypress lawn oversleeves, sometimes seen on portraits of this period. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1580s open robes and closed robes or ropas
At 04:16 28/04/2007, you wrote: --- Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Countess of Sussex (I think those are short puffs trimmed/lined in white fur, but it's hard to tell with the tone on tone BW image) http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1570/FrancesSidney.html This lady is now considered in all likelihood to be Queen Elizabeth l. According to Janet Arnold, she is standing in front of a Chair of State. I think there may be an article in the catalogue The Tudor Dynasty from which I believe your picture comes. Thank you Suzi! I didn't know that. I got that image from someplace online, but I will look up the info if I can find that book. Do you have the name of the author? Kimiko I have it somewhere, but the workroom is in dire need of a clearout, so it might take a day or two to find. Give me a nudge if I don't produce it soon. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1580s open robes and closed robes or ropas
At 23:36 27/04/2007, you wrote: There are many images of ladies in robes, but few of them show how the lower half of the body looks, so we are left wondering. But I think I know of a few images where it appears to be open in the front. However, some may be fully closing gowns, that were simply left open in the front, something I sometimes do when I wear a more fitted kirtle. Lady Burghley http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1560/MildredCooke1562.html Another of the same lady http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1560/MildredCooke1565.html Countess of Warwick http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1560/CountessWarwick.html Countess of Sussex (I think those are short puffs trimmed/lined in white fur, but it's hard to tell with the tone on tone BW image) http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1570/FrancesSidney.html This lady is now considered in all likelihood to be Queen Elizabeth l. According to Janet Arnold, she is standing in front of a Chair of State. I think there may be an article in the catalogue The Tudor Dynasty from which I believe your picture comes. As to how to make those woven sleeves, the best directions I remember seeing, was to make an under sleeve in the shape you want, then take ribbons, or bias cut fabrics, and weave them as you desire, pinning them to the undersleeve, then sew them into place along the edges. I don't know where I read that, but it was someplace online, or maybe in a message from a mailing list somewhere. Sorry I can't be more specific. There is a doublet of woven strips in Arnold, P of F 1560-1620. Suzi Good luck, Kimiko www.kimiko1.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am making an open robe for my Elizabethan outfit and wondered if anyone has seen short ornamental puffed sleeves on an open robe - I can only find them on the closed robes or ropas. I want to wear my elizabethan gown underneath the open robe, and not wear a loose kirtle as I've seen in some pictures - I wish for my gown to be seen clearly underneath. I would also like to make a sleeve with pieces that weave over and under in a grid pattern. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this? Many thanks Aylwen __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] embroidery question
At 19:30 24/04/2007, you wrote: The book i have it from, says silk gauge. What i think it is - is a light transparent silk, like chiffon or something like that! Its the book 18th century embroidery teckniques Bjarne - Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question That might be silk gauze? This is mentioned several times in the book that Bjarne mentions, rather than the gauge he calls it. I have seen net under embroidery too. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Update on Janet Arnold book - no need to get excited though.
There has been a rumour in the costume world here in England that Jenny Tiramani, formerly head of Costume at the Globe Theatre, had taken over the writing of Janet's books. Well, this evening, I asked her this very question. I was very clearly told that she has not Taken over the writing, but was merely helping Santina Levy, Janet's literary executor. I also had the privilege of meeting Tina at the same event, and together she and Jenny told me that the first of the books, on ruffs, shirts, smocks, is being worked on now. No date was given for completion, and I did not ask, as I felt I had been given privileged information anyway. Jenny asked me to make very clear to anyone interested that Santina Levy was still the principal editor/writer, and that Jenny was merely helping her. If I get any more news, I will certainly pass it on. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] The Tudors on the BBC
Taken from the Daily Mail this morning:- The show has been a hit in the U.S. and the BBC has just snapped up the UK broadcast rights. I'm told The Tudors is done in the style of The Sopranos mixed with Desperate Housewives. Obviously, historical accuracy is being stretched somewhat because Ms. Dormer (Anne Boleyn) rejoins Rhys Meyers and others for the second series. Maybe the American screenwriters know more about our country's history than we do, and Anne gets to keep her head!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: AIR DATES: THE TUDORS: ROYAL STYLEMAKERS
At 05:01 13/04/2007, you wrote: Is it going to air in the UK too Cat? If not, can I get a DVD? Suzi Everyone one's who's picture made it in, that includes you, will get a copy of the DVD once MJ has a chance to mail them. Only problem it will be US format so you'll have to borrow a machine that plays that format. No problem - I have a multi-zone player - comes of having *too* many American friends! To others who watched... some of the pictures go a bit fast, but almost everyone tapes now a days, so it's a matter of rewinding and enjoying at your own speed. Looking forward to seeing the programme. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] AIR DATES: THE TUDORS: ROYAL STYLEMAKERS
At 20:15 12/04/2007, you wrote: Check out your friends in their Tudor garb tonight. Tune into Style Network. The writer/producer did a wonderful job of getting as many folks as she could in the show. -Cat- Is it going to air in the UK too Cat? If not, can I get a DVD? Suzi -Original Message- Subject: [tvfilmcostuming] ADDITIONAL AIR DATES: THE TUDORS: ROYAL STYLEMAKERS 6 plays of the show so far on STYLE NETWORKS. Depending on ratings there may be more. They are promoting this with on on-air promos and a press The Tudors: Royal Stylemakers Special on Style Network. All times are Eastern Pacific. Thursday, April 12th @ 10:00pm Thursday, April 12th @ 1:00am Friday, April 13th @ 10:00am Friday, April 13th @ 8:00pm Saturday, April 14th @ 8:00am Sunday, April 15th @ 7:00pm ___ h-costume mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pleated trim question.
At 09:30 10/04/2007, you wrote: I am a little unsertain how i should cut the panels for the trims on this dress i am making: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm I want to make small box pleats, but i wondered if the trim should be cut in the height or could i just cut it out in the breath? Sorry if i misspelled the words. Jean Hunniset says that its not nescesary to cut that much fabric for trim. She says 11/2 or 2 times the lengt, but i think i should use at least 3 times the lenght. If you are making box pleats, Hunnisett says that you should use 3 times the length, I.5 to 2 times is for gathers. It really doesn't matter whether you cut across the fabric width or down the length, unless you have a shot fabric, in which case you need to decide which way according to how the colour changes. (Sometimes you want the contrast.) Many trimmings on original garments are made up from scraps of leftover material, so if it is not a shot fabric you can use it both ways. I have plenty of fabric for the dress, so i dont have to be carefull. I am using a little tiny gold trim in the edge, wich is wired, so its easy to make the pleats. Incidentally I used a wired trim for one dress I made, and hated the way it looked when finished, so took it all off, pulled out the wire and did it all again! (Must have been mad!) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Christian VII's banyan, /Frederik V/now men in makeup
At 20:39 10/04/2007, you wrote: Dear Saragrace, I am sure you have seen many portraits with gentlemen wearing a banyan. Its a kind of dressing gown or morning gown. In stead of wearing a full dressed outfit, a man being at home could have visitors and wear a banyan. You usually wore the banyan with your shirt, waistcoat and breeches, but Christian VII's banyan was closed entirely in the front, so he could have worn nothing underneath :-) Usually a cap follwed with the banyan, so the gentleman didnt have to wear a wig, but its missing in this outfit. Then i also looked at portraits, thoaght that this time i would exhamine very closely, a disgussion we have had on an 18th century list i am on, if men wore makeup! I still believe they used makeup, such pale skin and such rose colloured cheaks and lips, i am still convinsed after i studyed the portraits of the kings. Its the german lummieres members, they dont dare to wear makeup, and they therefore hold to the fact that men didnt wear makeup in 18th century, but they did PERIOD Bjarne Bjarne Fashions in Makeup by Richard Corson, and The Art of Beauty by Sally Pointer, both state that men wore rouge, British dandies who affected the extremes of Continental fashion were known to take as much time and care over their toilette as their female counterparts. (Pointer using James Boswell - and others - as a source.) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Christian VII's banyan, /Frederik V/now men in makeup
At 23:19 10/04/2007, you wrote: On Apr 10, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: I use a water based makeup, which I find is less heavy on the skin, plus it washes off with water. Have you ever used this? Sharon I love the Grimas water-based face paint from the Netherlands (I mail-order it from a shop in the UK). It's very versatile, and very sturdy. Best of all, jump in the shower and a bit of soap or shampoo takes it off completely. andy Andy Is that Fox's Makeup shop? I used Leichner for Kryolan for TV shoots, but nowadays most makeup girls use modern makeup for everyday clothes, and Dermablend for some more complicated blending. It's a while since I bought anything so need to update my box. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elastic
At 15:35 05/04/2007, you wrote: So was elastic used for women's stocking garters in the 1800s? If not, how did they keep them up before garters were attached to corsets? On Apr 5, 2007, at 7:45 AM, Sonja (LS-LAMP) wrote: Does anyone know when elastic was first used in clothing and how? I believe Thomas Hancock developed elastic for gloves in the early 1800s and did a separate patent for the machine to make the elastic in the 1830s. I found this link: http://www.bouncing-balls.com/index2.htm They used ribbons tied around under the knee. Some of Rowlandson's more risque cartoons show this quite clearly. Some late 18th century garters are beautifully embroidered, with mottoes and flowers. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Books with these images in them.
At 03:19 30/03/2007, you wrote: Anyone know what books have good reproductions of the following images: Holbein's English Burgher's wife (In color - I have it in black and white) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg A Fete at Bermondsey, Jorges Hoefnagle, 1575 http://www.allposters.com/-sp/A-Fete-at-Bermondsey-circa-1570-Posters_i13478 95_.htm I was at the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford a couple of weeks ago, and they sell a postcard of the Holbein painting. I know that there is also a postcard of the Fete at Bermondsey, and possibly a poster, but I forget which stately home owns it. They are always happy to post stuff, at least in my experience. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Books with these images in them.
At 03:44 30/03/2007, you wrote: At 07:19 PM 3/29/2007, you wrote: Anyone know what books have good reproductions of the following images: Holbein's English Burgher's wife (In color - I have it in black and white) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg I don't think that this was ever done in color. It's a sketch. This is in colour - she has an orangey red petticoat/underskirt, a grey dress, and a pale yellow sash. It's in pen and ink with watercolour washes. Suzi A Fete at Bermondsey, Jorges Hoefnagle, 1575 http://www.allposters.com/-sp/A-Fete-at-Bermondsey-circa-1570-Posters_i13478 95_.htm Really nice posters, but pricey. I've not seen any large reproductions in books, just bits of it. The smallest size poster is still larger than I have seen in any book. When the entire picture is shown, it's very small (maybe 1/2 page). I wish someone would do a calendar with it. Thanks, Sg Good luck on your searching. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1960s/1970s Fringed Clothing for Males
At 07:49 29/03/2007, you wrote: The fashion definitely started in the '60's, part of the hippie Native American stuff. The earliest fringed jackets I can remember in a band is on one or two of the members of Buffalo Springfield. They broke up in '68. There's a picture here: http://www.greene.k12.ia.us/wpdevelopment/Abby%20Web/NeilYoungAbby/p5.html Roger Daltrey from the Who also wore them a lot, as early as the late '60's; Jefferson Airplane, other psychelic bands, too. The style went more mainstream in the '70's. You can also look for pictures from Hair. Have you discovered VH1 Classic yet? -Helen/Aidan When I first met my DH, he had a fringed jacket, across the back only, in butter soft suede - it was quite beautiful. That was in 1970, but he had it before that. He says he remembers the Teddy boys dressing like cowboys in the 50's, but that is anecdotal, and he was quite young then, so I don't know how accurate he is - usually his memories are spot on. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Translation help
At 02:53 28/03/2007, you wrote: I need reactions from a sampling of avid readers of textile literature, and where better to find it than here? I'm editing a paper on textile analysis written by someone whose native language is not English. Some of the terms and idioms have come through a bit odd, and part of my job is to smooth it out so as not to jar the reader. The author is listing characteristics of fabric, including its appearance, handle, and properties. Obviously handle is the word that doesn't ring true here. My co-editor pencilled in feel. The fabric-user in me thinks hand, but perhaps that is not so well-understood a term. If you read either of these phrases in an article, would it pull you up short, or would it make sense to you? ...the properties, hand, and appearance of a finished fabric. ...the properties, feel, and appearance of a finished fabric. Other suggestions welcome. I don't think texture will work in context, because that turns out to be one of many factors in the handle. --Robin As far as I am aware, the word used more in English text, as opposed to American text, is feel. However, I don't think it is precisely the same, in fabric terms, as handle. Nor, to my mind, does hand which I did not come across until reading American comments on line. I may live a very sheltered life, but I do find terms do not necessarily mean the same in both countries. Does the writer mean the draping, or the texture? Feel = texture, handle = texture and draping, to my reading. Just my 2p's worth. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Translation help
At 16:32 28/03/2007, you wrote: Hmm. It appears hand might be too much of an American term. Thank goodness for this list. And yes, I think feel is too narrow to capture the idea of drape, which is something I couldn't put my finger on -- thanks to those who mentioned it, as now I have something to approach the authors with Patty asked about properties; the authors discuss a large number of factors that help define the effect of a textile, so I read this word as a catch-all term for everything else about the fabric other than how it looks and feels, e.g. warmth, durability, etc. But I will query and see whether that's what they mean, or whether all the properties they address can be summed up in appearance and drape/texture. A radical thought: If I used the original word, handle, would anyone here *not* understand it? Would it seem like bad English usage (which is a major concern here)? It struck both my English co-editor and me as a translation problem. The two appearances of the word: We hope that [this method of analysis] may provide information that will increase our knowledge about the properties, handle, and appearance of a finished fabric. Both the amount of twist and the twist combination in warp and weft are very important for the appearance of a fabric and also for the fabric's handle and properties. I am very tempted to put drape and texture in for the latter pair of adjectives, and may ask the authors' permission on that. --Robin Would using handling instead of handle help? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: robin's suggestion
At 10:01 22/03/2007, you wrote: I wonder if it (shoulder string) was something they did for children's clothing, to allow for growth. She appears to be a young woman, could still be growing? This is similar to tying the straps of a corset to the front of the bodice. Any reason why this should not perform a similar job? She seems to have a fairly stiff bodice on. Suzi on 3/21/07 3:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For 3 3/4 yd of 45 wide fabric, particularly in dark gold silk noil, consider this: http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gentiles/orazio/luteplay.html I once did this out of two wool scraps that totaled about 2 1/2 yards (OK, they were 60 inches wide, but you've got much more than that). A bonus: cheap spun silks, similar to noil, would have been used for non-wealthy Italians in this period. And there's your color documented for you right in that painting. I have never noticed the arm/shoulder treatment in that dress before. How does it work, exactly? And why is it like that? It looks as if the front of the bodice has a shoulder strap that connects to a string or cord of some kind attached to the back of the dress. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Spanish underwear
At 21:37 08/03/2007, you wrote: Mine are photographed in: Textiles Revealed Object lessons in historic textile and costume research Edited by Mary M. Brooks How to Read Historic Textiles by Katia Johansen. Figure 6a Hose of yellow Chinese silk damask with a white pattern of swimming ducks; this fabric is the same as the undersleeves of the pink coat (31.a.3). Reproduced by permission of the Royal Danish Collections, Rosenborg Castle. ...The waist has lost its gathering cord so the original waist width is not known. The feet are sewn onto the hose. The cut of the hose is similar to prehistoric Danish archaeological finds (31.L1.d) (figs a.b). There is a photograph of them in toto, and a pattern of their construction. These are listed as the Polish costume of King Fredrik III, inventoried in his wardrobe 1651. There is no mention in the inventory how he used or acquired them, as they are significantly different from the rest of his wardrobe. This collection has rarely been put on display and kept in the dark, so are in a remarkable state of preservation. (paraphrased by me) Same, but different, methinks. Oh, I have a picture of these I think, in a book on the costumes at Rosenborg Castle, which include the Polish Costume among other things. How interesting. Suzi Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 I don't know that those are the same pair as the ones in Textile Conservation--do you have a link or a reference for them? Thanks! Melanie __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spanish underwear
At 14:04 07/03/2007, you wrote: Surviving cut-and-sewn hose from the 16th century: a pair of white linen hose with embroidered tops and no feet (Janet Arnold, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, p. 207. These belong to the Metropolitan Museum of Art.) a pair of yellow men's hose made in the later 16th century as part of a costume meant to look like it was from the early 16th century. (Mechtild Flury-Lemberg, Textile Conservation and Research, trans. Pamela Liebundgut. Bern: Abegg-Stiftung, 1988, pp. 222-231. These belong to the Berne Historical Museum.) pieces from the Museum of London illustrated (with reconstruction) in Elisabeth Crowfoot, et al, Textiles and Clothing c. 1150-c. 1450, pp. 188-189. Despite the date range in the title, these are from the 16th c., included as a comparison with the 14th-c. finds. pieces from the Mary Rose illustrated (with reconstruction) in Julie Gardiner, Before the Mast: Life and Death Aboard the Mary Rose, pp. 57-58. Melanie Schuessler Museum of London has a stocking - 16th century - on display in the Medieval Gallery. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Your work wanted for a Tudor Fashion TV special
At 19:38 02/03/2007, you wrote: Hello, All -- Forgive me for repeating what some of you already know, if you also belong to the Tudor Tailor and TV/Film yahoo groups we've been talking all week, I want to extend this invitation to one and all. I'm looking for good, clear photographs of you and your work for possible inclusion in an upcoming 1/2 hour national cable TV special on Showtime's new original series, The Tudors, starring Jonathan Rhys Meyers as a young Henry VIII. Things I'm interested in seeing: 1. Images of you or others in Tudor garments you've created -- particularly Tudor royalty: Henry VIII, Anne Boleyn, especially. But a Charles Brandon would be fantastic, too. 2. Strong, clear images of you or others as re-enactors that feature the costumes. 3. Any photos of you incorporating Tudor-inspired fashion or accessories in contemporary day to day life. 4. Any photos of costume or art-to-wear inspired by the Tudor fashion or Henry VIII 5. Links to your Tudor-related websites or businesses. Is this solely for American costumers or can anyone play? Suzi English Costume Maker ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Festive Attyre
At 08:12 02/02/2007, you wrote: I tried to find an email address but can't seem to find one. Could someone let the owner of Festive Attyre know that she needs a spelling correction with the Italian working class file. The artist is Vincenzo Campi, Vicenzo Campi. Thank you, De That's done. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Festive Attyre
At 10:30 02/02/2007, you wrote: Thank you. De -Original Message- Had a message back that she has checked the spelling and it is correct as written on her web site. It may be that there are other spellings? I don't want to get involved - I am only the messenger. There is an e-mail on her site, I am sure. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 18th century cravats
At 21:03 30/01/2007, you wrote: Its a little late, but Late Georgian Costume: The tailors Friendly Instructor (1822) By J Wyatt and The Art of Tying the Cravat (1828) By H Le Blanc is available from Lacis if you're interested. I make my linen cravats 55 long and 10 wide. Wrong period - not even Regency by the time these books were published. I have them too - not really suitable for early 18th century at all. Suzi I'm trying to figure out the dimensions for a late 17th or early 18th century man's cravat. I've got plenty of sources that say they tied around the neck in various ways, but not much else. Does anyone know how wide and how long the cloth is? Would it be wide enough to fold one or more times, or would it be worn as a single thickness? Did they wrap from the back and tie in front like a scarf, or were they wrapped across the throat in front, around the back, and then tied in front? Does anyone know of any photos of extant cravats other than the one in _Cut of Men's Clothes_? (And I think that one is just the lace ends, anyway, it looks far too short to tie around anything, but there's no indication of size or scale, so who can tell.) It has been a long time since I read it, but its: Collars, Stocks, and Cravat by Doriece Colle Rodale Press, Inc. 1972 72840 005 7 Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 18th century cravats
At 19:56 29/01/2007, you wrote: In a message dated 1/29/2007 2:19:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm trying to figure out the dimensions for a late 17th or early 18th century man's cravat. It is my understanding that it is a square of silk, which is then folded in various ways on the diagonal over a stock to support it, which is boned canvas or leather. This is where the wrapped up to the chin and bottom of the ears look comes from. The pointed ends of this square folded on the bias is what you see tied at the front of the neckor sometimes they are tied or just crossed in front and brought to the braces and pinned thereunder the waistcoat of course so you never see that. I think in some instances they can even be brought around under the arms and tied in the back! So the length can be quite longit would equal the diagonal of the square. If you take a square yard, you get quite a long length on the diagonal from corner to corner. But it could even be bigger than a yard. As time progresses the folding changes to be more of a long strip [like in the 1840's] and then actually it is cut as a long bias stripor on the straight like a ribbon by the 1860's. No, no that is late 18th or early 19th century cravats. Early 18th century are just a length of fabric, usually about 60 long and as wide as you choose, in a very fine muslin or linen. You wrap it round, usually once only, tie in a loose knot, and often poke one end through a buttonhole, known as a Steinkirk, after a battle. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question about robe anglaise.
At 17:56 27/01/2007, you wrote: Well it is because the bodice has a sharp v point in the bodice at the back, and i thoaght it would look better, if the skirt dont have a seam there.. dont know? Bjarne There are three dresses in Janet Arnold with similar backs, and at least two, if not all three, have centre back seams. It actually makes life easier if you are splitting the fabric to hang down inside. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
At 14:58 26/01/2007, you wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty Could be - I was old enough to be this lady's mother. According to my small dictionary - too lazy to heave out the O.E.D. - ultramarine is a blue pigment. The thread I bought was not blue! I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
At 19:46 26/01/2007, you wrote: Yeah, I know -- but *theoretically* if the peach were called Georgia Bloom in both stores, or whatever, then they would match. I don't think the restriction goes as high as couture, though -- it does get down into ready-to-wear, but if you're like me and you buy on sale a lot, you don't know what season's clothes you're actually buying, for starters. The proliferation of color forecasters has probably changed things, too. Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here in the U.K. I am wearing amethyst pants, mauve sweater, and aubergine cardigan, and they all match. Not only that, they nearly match the ultramarine thread that started all this!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
At 15:27 26/01/2007, you wrote: Just checked my small dictionary - ultramarine was named because the pigment came from over the sea, not because it looked like the sea as I had thought, so there was an ultramarine blue, an ultramarine purple even an ultramarine yellow. Patty Oh, now I'm really confused - I think my olours come from paints like others have mentioned. (Ultramarine being blue like lapis lazuli!) Suzi At 14:58 26/01/2007, you wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty Could be - I was old enough to be this lady's mother. According to my small dictionary - too lazy to heave out the O.E.D. - ultramarine is a blue pigment. The thread I bought was not blue! I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: o/t cat on a hot tin roof
At 15:09 18/01/2007, you wrote: Dear Bjarne . This time i want to try and make the hoop with padded panels along the top bones, in order to keep the tension of the side extensions nice and smooth for the skirts. I have looked very close after a fashion print of Galleries des Modes where a millinery lady is delivering goods, amungst other things a hoop wich she carries under her arms. Also the small hoop from VA has padding, so i guess its ok to do it. Is this on 18C panier? I am intrigued - I am going to make a toile of the french 'panier' shown in Waugh, where she shows two panels (which I presume are the same for front and back) then a sort of triangle which gets made into the waist ties... It's not very clear but she doesn't mention padding! It would make sense though, to keep the sides smooth as you say. When i get my laces, i think i am going to explode of excitement. From here in Scotland? Oo - do post a picture when they arrive, it sounds very exciting and today we have snow and rain, so it needs brightening up with something pretty! p.s. I am going to buy the red brocade with silver motifs Katherine I have a made up pannier from the Waugh pattern if you want any help. E-mail me off list if I can. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Shops in York, England
At 06:04 15/01/2007, you wrote: A while back we were discussing our favorite fabric shops and somebody mentioned they shop in York. My son is there now for six months of study at The University of York and I would like him to check it out. No fabric shops that I remember. Lots of interesting antique shops, a great shop totally dedicated to everything cat (post it notes, tote bags etc), great food markets and weekend markets of things like Peruvian knitwear, home made jams, etc. But nothing costume orientated that I remember - sorry. I don't expect he will be able to buy me anything, being on a very, very tight budget, but I would at least like him to take a look. If anybody has any suggestions for places he can go while he is there, it would be greatly appreciated. I've instructed him to buy any postcards that have clothing or portraits on them, but we will see if he remembers. York has lots of interesting historical buildings, a museum, a railway museum, and there is plenty to see in the local area. I have a vague memory that they have a dress belonging to Queen Victoria in the museum, and if it is there, you can buy a postcard. I have not been to any local museums or art galleries as I usually go for a weekend with the Richard lll Society, and dine in medieval clothing in Barley Hall. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War/fastening left or right
At 23:11 14/01/2007, you wrote: In a message dated 1/14/2007 12:28:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Note that: there are an equal number of photographs with the women's wear buttoning left over-right as well, so this could be a transition time It was indeed a transition time. You see both men's and women's clothes buttoning both ways, in real clothes as well as photographs. (One of the hazards of relying on photographs alone is that the image could be reversed.) One theory is that the gender closings were only standardized as ready-to-wear became widespread, and that was later in the 19th century. I heard a theory that the side clothes fastened on was standardised when cutting with a band saw became popular, along with tailored clothes for women. A band saw could cut many thicknesses of fabric, and often a manufactory would be cutting and making up men's'and women's clothing side by side, unlike a tailor's workshop. Here each section would be made up by a specialist - buttonholer/sleeve maker/pocket setter etc., so confusion was less likely to occur. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] URL Repost - Re: French Farthingale construction tips?
At 12:36 13/01/2007, you wrote: Dear Saragrace, These were much better. Thankyou for showing. Boy this is an interresting thing to make. Are you planning on making as much decoration on the stomacher as the portrait, what is it going to be made from? For the cuff laces, how about considering to purchase some of the lace Ninya Michaela has on her website? They had a lace manufacturer make a reproduktion renaissance lace. I baught and have 10 meters of it, for a dress i maybe wil make in the future. Its a nice lace, but even it looks real, the weight of it is two heavy. But you cant get it all these days. Bjarne Ninya no longer has any of this lace for sale, but is considering ordering more. Details on her web site. http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/ Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Virgin Queen
At 21:32 09/01/2007, you wrote: Sylvia Rognstad wrote: I don't know if the PBS series The Virgin Queen is showing in all necks of the woods, but it just started here in Colorado this past Sunday. I'm wondering what you all thought of it, costume or otherwise? I enjoyed it the first time it aired in 2005, but I'm not watching it the second time around. I thought they did a reasonable job of telling the story and making it realistic, but I seem to recall a lot of folks hated it. I made ruffs (so I know accuracy was not paramount!) for this show, and saw some of the clothes in the making - they were using Janet Arnold and Jean Hunnisett. However, they weren't using them very well in my opinion, as the clothes were no better than any of the other Elizabeth films in recent years. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1450 - pregnant?
At 08:34 24/12/2006, you wrote: In the mid late 15thC, supportive gowns often don't close up all the way. A few of the many examples: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/15thDress1.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/memling38.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/minidance.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/valeriusmaximus.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1484flem.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1489urs04det.jpg This is a VERY practical refinement, and supports (sorry) the theory of a supportive style. As those who've worn supportive undergowns are no doubt aware, due to body heat and other factors a supportive gown gets a bit looser--and supports less--as the day progresses. A front closure with an intentional gap allows for adjustment. Your dress loosens up a bit, you cinch yourself in further. You eat a big meal, you loosen your laces. You waking feeling a bit bloated and swollen, you leave it loose over the belly and the bust. It is a wonderful thing. The fit of the supportive gown/GFD in the mid late 15thC is different than in the 14thC early 15thC. The busk effect of Robin's straight-front GFD style is no longer necessary to get the right look; the popular silhouette is one where the bust is very rounded, and sticks out rather than being trussed up: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80%2520Valerius%2520Maximus.jpg This silhouette involves much curvier seams, and sometimes makes use of the side-front seam: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1453-5.jpg A similar fit can be obtained without side-front seams through the use of a curved-front seam, which lends itself beautifully to being laced only partly shut. Incidentally, this style of dress: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/31tlove.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/17rein21.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/RdelaRbrugesCropped.jpg is a late 15thC variation of the slightly-open-front style, and though often dismissed as medievaloid, is actually seen quite often in paintings/illuminations. Thank you for the wonderful images - unfortunately I cannot get this one http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80%2520Valerius%2520Maximus.jpg to display, and all the others are so helpful, I want this one to look at too!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: the other bolyn girl
At 16:26 24/12/2006, you wrote: A portrait of Mary Boleyn http://history.wisc.edu/sommerville/361/boleyn_family.htm Said to be Anne but looks more like Mary. http://ntap.k12.ca.us/whs/projects/history/himages/wives2.jpg This portrait is at Hever Castle, Anne's family home, so I think it is probably authentic. Suzi the movie dresses look to be a combination of dress styles, Simplicity's version of Shakespeare in Love pattern comes to mind first. This is close http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/LadyWithHeron.jpg But the dresses really look like a variation of Cranach's gowns. http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1525_2.shtml http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/1525cranyounglady.htm ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: the other bolyn girl
At 00:16 25/12/2006, you wrote: -Original Message- Said to be Anne but looks more like Mary. http://ntap.k12.ca.us/whs/projects/history/himages/wives2.jpg This portrait is at Hever Castle, Anne's family home, so I think it is probably authentic. Suzi De: There has been a debate as to whether the portrait is that of Anne Boleyn or her sister, not that it wasn't authentic. If you compare Mary's portrait with the above painting A portrait of Mary Boleyn http://history.wisc.edu/sommerville/361/boleyn_family.htm and then you compare it to Anne's http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleyn.html you can see why there are some questions as to who it is. The citation says a late 16th century which if correct, would seem to suggest a posthumous portrait. I see two different people, and always have. I have never thought it was the same person. Most for it being Mary tend to point out the gable headdress vs. the French hood but with that you have this portrait of Anne http://tudorhistory.org/boleyn/boleynmin.jpg It is believed that Anne wore the French hood because she stayed in France for a spell and Mary did not. The possibility of Anne wearing a gable headdress would be because she was a Lady in waiting to Queen Katherine of Aragon. If you are saying the portrait has to be Anne cause it is at Heven, I would say that there has been mistaken identity of Tudor portraits in the past because of location that determining validity of the poser should not be based on location. As the provenance of the portrait at Hever is that it has been there since Anne's time, (as far as I remember) and I also seem to remember that there is another portrait at Hever in the same style that is said to be Mary Boleyn, I would be inclined to go with that attribution. But the house's owners and historians could be wrong. Suzi De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: question re: floss silks for embroidery
At 10:07 19/12/2006, you wrote: Well, if you're looking for the period 800-1600, certainly I would highly recommend the tome written by Schuette and someone or other (memory fails me) called The Art of Embroidery. You can get it through inter-library loan, although I did so often I finally broke down and spent an entire year's book budget on my own copy. It is considered a rare book and you will likely have to use it in-house. It is also considered an extremely well-researched and scholarly book, with detailed provenance and technical background which is still considered accurate. There are examples in the book dating to ancient China and Persia, but for your purposes there are some exquisite examples of Opus Anglicanum (mantle of St. Cuthbert, c. 800AD to the peerless Burgundian Vestments, c. 16th century), all of which not only use copious amounts of silk thread, but gold, my own personal passion. Interesting, btw, you're teaching a class on this. I give several lectures, as well as teach several classes, on various aspects of historical embroidery, one of which is a history of embroidery. Or you buy a much cheaper, but very useful small book by a former curator of the Museum of London, called Embroiderers which also has information about Opus Anglicorum. http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Staniland,%20Kay Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: question re: floss silks for embroidery/Staniland
At 15:15 19/12/2006, you wrote: Or you buy a much cheaper, but very useful small book by a former curator of the Museum of London, called Embroiderers which also has information about Opus Anglicorum. http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Staniland,%20Kay Suzi Have it. Staniland's great. Think my local library carries Shuette. She'll be pleased to hear you are a fan - she currently has a broken thumb and is feeling very under the weather! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New book 14th C Italy
At 00:40 17/12/2006, you wrote: On Saturday 16 December 2006 4:57 pm, JAMES OGILVIE wrote: Actually, there still isn't anything available to introduce this style to the person who just wants to make clothes, as opposed to doing in-depth research. The artwork shows a number of styles and variations, many of them simple to construct and wear and Italian styles are extremely popular at SCA events. A book that explains the different styles and gives some guidance as to how to do it RIGHT really needs to be written. There may not be books, but there are websites. I don't know how these would pass muster with you from a historical accuracy perspective (Italian Ren is not my primary area) but the following sites look pretty good to me from the perspective of just making clothes: http://homepages.wmich.edu/~rowen/renbk/rendressbook.html http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/italiandress.html These are actually late 15th century, though. For 14th, aren't you just in the so-called cotehardie or Gothic fitted dress era (especially in Italy where simpler styles tended to prevail during that period)? There are good sites for that too: http://www.cottesimple.com/ http://www.netherton.net/robin/ (the fourth link from the top of the page is to a PDF with useful information) http://www.maybe.org/~rodmur/sca/Cotehardie.html (all about how to alter a particular commercial pattern into a plausible period garment) Of course, the would-be seamstress/seamster will have to decide which if any of these methods works with their level of skill/desired level of authenticity And Jean Hunnisett has a few patterns in her Period Costume for Stage and Screen Medieval to 1500. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 0f belts and hanging sleeves
At 14:06 11/12/2006, you wrote: Two questions: Waugh suggests Swiss belts for some of the mid 19thC dresses. Any clue as to what these looked like? Could this be the same as I have heard called Swiss Waists in the U.S. That is a belt that is shaped to an upward and downward facing point at the centre front. I am working out the problems of interpreting the Darnley Dress for my QEI 14 doll. Do you mean the Ditchley dress? At first, I thought I was looking at a sleeveless coat be set to give a cape effect. On closer examenation, I see that this is actually a hanging sleeve...born out by Waugh, Arnold, and Hunnisett. I have worked out the shape and cut but am having problems with the set. In order for the unity of the skirt , bodice and sleeve that bear the ornamentation, I can only achieve the look by inserting the hanging sleeve outside in. This means that the lining will actually be the outside fabric. Hunnisett suggests that the armhole and the sleeves are both finished, (bound is easiest) and then the sleeves are whipped in by hand. That way you can put the hanging sleeve on first, and the dress sleeve inside it. I have done double sleeves like this and it works with no difficulty. Has anyone else attempted this dress for real? I have turned the backside of the shoulder area backwards so the gathers of the shoulder look like the painting...and will tack them downover the silk lining, but the lining is still exposed in all its plainess. I have been unable to find any explanation of how this was done. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Janet Arnold
At 18:58 06/12/2006, you wrote: If you're talking about the shirts book, I kind of do. It's still hung up in legal issues - estate, copyright, permissions... the typical yadda yadda for publishing a book of this nature. It happens that my research crosses over hers, a couple of the shirts in the Met collection are included in this book. But because hers is far more diverse, the chances of my publishing first are greater than her estate beating me to it. I am to understand her estate has enough material to publish 4 more books. It's just a matter of sifting through it all and assembling it appropriately. Kathy hi, Does any of you know any news about the last Arnold Book wich was supposed to be published? I am awaiting it impatiently Bjarne The last I heard, the completion of the book(s) had been handed over from the original literary executors to another person. This, of course, will have caused a delay, not counting the time lost immediately after her death. She told me, only a few weeks before she died, that she had completed the fourth draft of the first book. Unfortunately it never occurred to me to ask which she meant by the first book. I know she was planning the shirts/ruffs/supportasses book as one unit, and the other one, I understood, was to have included more men's costumes. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Janet Arnold
At 23:06 06/12/2006, you wrote: At 18:58 06/12/2006, you wrote: If you're talking about the shirts book, I kind of do. It's still hung up in legal issues - estate, copyright, permissions... the typical yadda yadda for publishing a book of this nature. It happens that my research crosses over hers, a couple of the shirts in the Met collection are included in this book. But because hers is far more diverse, the chances of my publishing first are greater than her estate beating me to it. I am to understand her estate has enough material to publish 4 more books. It's just a matter of sifting through it all and assembling it appropriately. Kathy hi, Does any of you know any news about the last Arnold Book wich was supposed to be published? I am awaiting it impatiently Bjarne The last I heard, the completion of the book(s) had been handed over from the original literary executors to another person. This, of course, will have caused a delay, not counting the time lost immediately after her death. She told me, only a few weeks before she died, that she had completed the fourth draft of the first book. Unfortunately it never occurred to me to ask which she meant by the first book. I know she was planning the shirts/ruffs/supportasses book as one unit, and the other one, I understood, was to have included more men's costumes. Suzi I had heard something about one of them being the missing book for the period between 1620 and 1660. Do any of you know anything about that? That was what Janet was talking about - she said she had some men's suits to add - I think from the Isham collection, which are transitional. There is a beautiful coat which is very fragile, I seem to remember. I don't remember if she had any earlier women's clothes - maybe I was making a man's costume at the time - I am sorry not to have a clearer memory. I had expected the books to come out sooner after her death, and didn't think I needed to remember that precisely at the time. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] corset boning
At 18:09 05/12/2006, you wrote: What style of Victorian corset do you plan to make? Do you have a pattern/image picked out? How regularly do you plan to wear the corset--will it be a daily thing, on the weekends, a few times a year, or only once? -E House I use spiral steel for all Victorian era corsets, with straight steels either side the lacing holes, and a steel busk in the centre front if required. I would never use plastic boning for this period - where whalebone was not used, most times, as far as I know, spiral steel was used. To my mind, no matter what size the customer, the plastic stuff doesn't work for the period - I use it for earlier stuff though - I don't like cable ties. My original Victorian corsets have either whalebone or spirals. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] corset boning
At 19:08 05/12/2006, you wrote: Whalebone is now illegal, but the support and flexibility of the old stuff are pretty similar to modern plastic boning. Fran I use spiral steel for all Victorian era corsets, with straight steels either side the lacing holes, and a steel busk in the centre front if required. I would never use plastic boning for this period - where whalebone was not used, most times, as far as I know, spiral steel was used. To my mind, no matter what size the customer, the plastic stuff doesn't work for the period - I use it for earlier stuff though - I don't like cable ties. My original Victorian corsets have either whalebone or spirals. Suzi You can actually purchase whalebone legally from Inuit traders. This was on a discussion list I was looking at last week. I have a bundle of genuine corset whalebone inherited from an elderly corsetiere, ands while it is flexible like modern plastic boning, which I like for other periods, there is just a little more rigidity in the whalebone - and not because it is aged and dried out. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help Needed With Suit Extras
At 23:00 05/12/2006, you wrote: Hi I have come up against a problem with my proposed Fursuit and the extra things that I cannot seem to solve with the research that I have been doing into it. I am looking for some help in finding a pattern for the TUNIC ... in the artwork for the suit that I am building. Someone suggested that it is similar to 15th Century French Military uniforms, but I have not been able to find anything similar while searching through the library or the net. Hopefully someone here can give me a pointer to something I can use. Here is a link to the Artwork for the suit: http://www.geocities.com/kliah_ts/Chasseuse.jpg I suggest you Google 19th Century Uniforms. You will find hundreds of images, which should help. This is a popular fantasy uniform style, and seems to be based on 19th, not 15th century uniform. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Green Valley/Tales from the Green Valley
At 18:52 04/12/2006, you wrote: Oh, LORD, this is JUST what I have wished and wished they would do, except of course that I wanted them to invite ME along. But I'm not finding it on US TV yet. PBS doesn't have a listing for it. Has anybody found it here south of the border? Lauren This is actually called Tales from the Green Valley - maybe different in the U.S. There is a web site here http://www.petersommer.com/tv_tales.html and a DVD is available. Suzi who loved every authentic minute! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing?
At 18:58 01/12/2006, you wrote: It's that oh so fashionable time of the year. Holiday parties, gifts, theater season, formal dress of all eras. Maybe even a New Years Eve ensemble What are you working on? --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mine is wearing padding, a shift, corset and pink check pocket hoops for a sacque I am making for a lady to wear at the Venice Carnival in February next year. There is a caraco jacket and petticoat to follow, plus three more suits, (I have made one) a waistcoat, and three shirts for her husband. Holiday, what holiday!? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug
At 13:56 29/11/2006, you wrote: Hi, Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen from my old embroidery shop. The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i use this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? Bjarne I've never seen linen trimming a silk gown, whereas there are several gowns in collections with silk gauze. Silk organza makes a good substitute, also tulle. The V and A has a dress with gauze, and so does the Chester County collection, I think - Fitting and Proper book. (Mind you that might be Costume Closeup - I am using all of them right now for a sacque I am making.) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug
At 14:28 29/11/2006, you wrote: Hi Suzi, For a little pleated trim, do you handsew all the edges on your gowns? I have a nice seam folder on my machine, wich makes very nice edges. I think organza would be two stiff, maybe a silk chiffon? If i go to a shop here and ask for silk gauge, i dont think they would know what it is, or if they have it! I found silk chiffon too floppy. I usually use the overlocker/serger, with matching thread, or gold thread - it makes a very delicate edge, and is very light and pretty. The dress in yellow in the middle, is trimmed with yellow organza http://www.minuetcompany.org/galleryimages/Image10.jpg but I have used white before - just don't have pictures!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug/gauze trim
At 19:14 29/11/2006, you wrote: Dear Sue, When i was in Sweden last visiting a friend who also reenacts, i helped her with a gown she is making. She wanted scalloped sleave ruffles, and i tryed to use the fray check to the edges. I didnt like it, because it dyes the edge darker than the original collour of the silk. The trim i have in mind is just a strip of material pleated and sewed 1/3 from the edge, about 2 inches wide. I think i want to stick to Suzis advise in using organza, more easy to work with. Its a trimming i have made before some years ago i made the blue dress with chenille embroidery: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/kostumer6.htm I used my hem seamer from the machine, and it didnt look that bad. Only 1-2 mm. wide. The trim is for the anglaise dress i make right now, as you can see of the drawing, i am going to add a little pleated trim to the skirts. And speaking of the anglaise dress, i changed the corset front and the result is much better, just finnished the boning with 84 bones alone in the front piece! I took off some of the sides at the armhole, and then i changed the angle of the center front, where i took in a little center front, and also changed the bone angles to vertical in the front. Much better. Bjarne The trim on that blue dress is very pretty - I think it is a very period trim. I don't like fraycheck either. I have some gum arabic powder to try, (what was used to stop fraying originally, but never seem to have the time to experiment!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit
At 23:47 27/11/2006, you wrote: Kimiko Small wrote: Thank you Janet for sharing this. I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in England. Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting for those rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright restriction is not on the website? I saw the exhibit this weekend, and got this book. I agree with Suzi, it has excellent images, many full-page and very clearly reproduced. It has all the images (I think) and yes, there are a bunch of sketches and some portraits not usually reproduced in other books. There's also a good selection of non-portrait works, designs for jewelry and covered cups and such. And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has another book that is thicker Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) Does anyone know of any details on this book? It's like the catalogue, but I believe it covers all of Holbein, not just his years in England. It's at least two inches thick. I thought about getting it, but it was expensive and I thought it might put me over my luggage weight limit (no kidding!). Glad you got to see the exhibit. Did you take as long as us, or were you able to drag yourself away? I just love those drawings - so much detail, and so much more real than the oil paintings. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit/London shows
At 03:26 28/11/2006, you wrote: WAH! I didn't get to go:( Is the book on the collection really good? It's terrific - do you want me to get you one? I got you postcards! The book was a bit heavy to carry with me through the Velasquez exhibition we did on the same day, especially as I had one for me! You will know a lot of the pictures, but there are some that are not readily available on the Internet. If anyone is coming to London in the next few months there are several new exhibitions due - one I am particularly looking forward to is Canaletto in England (I think) at the Dulwich Picture Gallery. I can check the others if anyone is interested. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit
At 05:26 23/11/2006, you wrote: Thank you Janet for sharing this. I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in England. Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting for those rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright restriction is not on the website? And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has another book that is thicker Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) Does anyone know of any details on this book? Thank you, Kimiko JAMES OGILVIE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a nice on-line display of Holbein's English work at http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/holbein/default.shtm . Most of the pictures of women are already well-known but some of the men (and their clothes) were new to me. There are also a number of studies of jewelry. The Holbein catalogue is well worth buying. The reproductions are excellent. I haven't read the text as I was too busy enjoying the pictures. I went to the exhibition with some costume minded friends a couple of weeks ago, and without dawdling, it took us 2 1/2 hours to go round. We followed it with a visit to the current Velasquez exhibition, also well worth the visit. I did not buy the full size catalogue for that, so cannot comment. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood cute portrait repros
At 03:40 15/11/2006, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: museum. There seems to be a French Hood frame there too, but it's like no French Hood shape I've ever seen. There are two MoL wire frames possibly from French hoods that are pictured in The Age of Transition: The Archaeology of English Culture 1400-1600. They're very similar. Is this what you're referring to? Each of them has a little ball on both ends of the curve and a spot at each side about temple level where the wire makes a small loop before continuing on the rest of the curve. My theory for this is that the little loops in the wire are anchor points for firmly attaching the wire to the foundation of the crescent. When I used it this way in my hood, it worked very well. Melanie I don't know the book to which you refer, but your description sounds about right. Good to know it worked for you. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review)
At 03:44 15/11/2006, you wrote: Suzi Clarke wrote: Gable headdresses seem to have been made on a metal wire frame. The one I made for the Museum of London was based on a copy of the frame in the museum. ... If you want to see it, go here. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/Vermeer1.jpg Very pretty! Do the falls in back extend from the two bottom sides of the square in back as they do in the Holbein drawing? They look like they're hanging a little straighter than that. What did you use for stiffening besides the wire frame? There was the wire frame at the front, then a square frame for the back, set diagonally. The two were joined/covered with some stiff Vilene and Pelmform (a stiff stuff you use for curtain pelmets). This began to crumple while I was working on it, so I reinforced it with very short lengths of steel boning from my corset stash. I think buckram would probably have been the best answer, but I find that very hard to handle these days. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review)
At 14:33 14/11/2006, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, that is some really cool information, Melanie. So, does that allow you to draw any conclusions about the gable headdress?( http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownLady5.jpg) It almost looks like it could be the same hood, only with the fall(s) attached on the bottom instead of the top (and, of course, there were two falls). The construction of gable hoods seems to be pretty different from the French hood, despite their probable common origins. I can't really speculate about gable hoods (think I'll quit while I'm ahead!). I've always thought that if someone made a timeline of images showing how the gable and French hood headdresses evolved from earlier fashions, it would help us figure out what's under there. But then, maybe you would need to know what was under there before you could make such a timeline. A timeline can definitely help. I've developed one for the French hood, and from it I can formulate hypotheses about the layers. I haven't done the same for the gable, however. Gable headdresses seem to have been made on a metal wire frame. The one I made for the Museum of London was based on a copy of the frame in the museum. There seems to be a French Hood frame there too, but it's like no French Hood shape I've ever seen. The gable has become very shabby, as it is in constant use be members of the public, who will insist on picking off the jewels. When I made it I had a copy of the Tudor Tailor, but I am afraid I disagreed with quite a lot of the instructions, and ended up doing (and re-doing, and re-doing) it until I was happy with the way it looked. If you want to see it, go here. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/Vermeer1.jpg The Museum took a picture of one of their staff wearing it hence the title - although how they thought it was of Vermeer's period I don't know!! (Maybe it resembles the Girl with the Pearl Earring painting?) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
At 03:13 13/11/2006, you wrote: I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: Quoting Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How much is 350 pounds? $700 USD -- approximately This is not an unusual price for a gown of this period, especially if it includes fabric. Prices here are very much higher that in the U.S. My American friends are often surprised at the prices I charge, and I am never without work. Incidentally, I believe this is one of her fantasy frocks, rather than an authentic one, but that is only a guess as I have never actually seen any of her clothes or accessories. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts
At 17:00 13/11/2006, you wrote: In a message dated 11/13/2006 10:18:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay I couldn't resist and looked it up. Actually, this one (if it's the right one I'm looking at) says it's made to order in standard sizes, so it's not custom. And IMHO it's ugly, I must agree. It is ugly! Let's just peruse the design, shall we? The different reds look pretty ugly to me, but all personal color choices aside The upper part of the gown is made to look like a gown with hanging sleeves, with tight sleeves from an undergown in brocade showing. So far so good. Now this isn't my period by a long shot, but I'm sure they faked this in the period. Still, would not a T-shaped construction be correct, if not more common, in this time than set in sleeves? [Like I said, it's not my period] If there's no armseye seam, this sleeve coming from under another sleeve seems hard to fake. Still, it's not unfathomable, and the dress does have set in sleeves... so that's OK. But then the whole illusion is destroyed when we get to the lower skirts. Were it a full skirt of brocade with the red overskirts slit at intervals to reveal the brocade, OK. But this is not what we have. We are stuck with what is obviously one pieced layera red dress trimmed in the same brocade as the tight sleeves of a supposed undergown. Why go thru all the trouble to fool the eye from the waist up only to kill that illusion with bad design below? I said itBAD DESIGN. Let's all learn from it. There should be a LOGIC to designsa logic that is true from head to foot. I am beginning to be tired of the incredible rudeness of this list to a fellow costumer who doesn't know she is being ripped to pieces. Would anyone be so rude to someone who is a list member? I think not. The lady obviously makes good costumes as well as not so good - don't we all? Just because it is not what this list approves of doesn't give us the right to be rude. Her address was given in good faith as someone who might be able to supply some goods. I am embarrassed that I gave her name, as I had no expectation of the sniping and carping that would go on. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] dress type
At 13:00 12/11/2006, you wrote: I have seen this dress. In the original movie, The King And I, Anna is wearing one during the State Dinner seen when she is dancung with Yul Brenner. --- Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have finally found a propper picture to show. This is a painting of the view over the thames. Its from the mid century. You can clearly see that the ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in the back. I have seen this type of dress in many danish paintings two, yeat this type of dress is never spoken of in any history books. So i ask you! Please take a look at this painting wich i uploaded, it is cropped just to show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so its not the best quality. What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, or is the skirt attached to the bodice? I am so curious to hear what you think! http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm To me it looks like a version of the Anglaise style dress. Or am I missing something? If they are Anglaise dresses, then the skirt is attached to the bodice, they close in the front with small straight pins, and the bottom of the bodice comes to a point in the front and back. The skirt is also pleated to the bodice all the way around. Hope that helps! This is taken from a painting by Canaletto in 1747. It's one of his London from the Thames paintings. Here is the full painting. http://www.abcgallery.com/C/canaletto/canaletto31.html (I hope). Are there dresses like this in Fitting and Proper, or Costume Close-up, or Costume in Detail, or Historic Fashion in Detail? (the 18th century one.) I'm away from my books and can't check right now. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
