Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 116, Issue 62

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Thanks Alberto,
This sounds like good advice.  Ok,  you speak sooth.
Aarre


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM,  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Hello Aarre P
>
> Plese forget the clear defeniton off snc! It is un arbitrary! Does not
> exist such state for real...Full recall etc...! The only real state is
> "Nirvana" to guive it a name! So just do Trom FORGET ABOUT SNC!
>
> LOVE!
>
>
>
>
> Quoting trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: A Benefit from TROM (Aarre Peltomaa)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 00:25:08 -0400
>> From: Aarre Peltomaa 
>> To: The Resolution of Mind list 
>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] A Benefit from TROM
>> Message-ID:
>> > gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Colleen,
>>
>> Thanks for the write up.   Also remember what Dennis said about what to do
>> if some level is giving too much trouble;  go back to an earlier level and
>> work on that.  Sometimes I think that I should perhaps go back to level 2
>> and have done so sometimes.  I don't seem to have much problem doing level
>> 3,  but that concerns me,  because it seems to be too easy,  excepting
>> that
>> I can't get great detail visually sometimes,  and definitely am not
>> 'clear'
>> yet per Dianetics.
>> I know definitely that I'm not 'clear' per Dianetics,  so that I'm not
>> finished level 3 for sure.  My viewpoint also can't readily go through
>> walls, and see the other side through the wall  yet,  as described by
>> Dennis;  at least not like it would with using my eyes as the viewpoint.
>> (my eyes would be smashed if they went through the wall.  hahaha !)
>> Level
>> 3 seems to run mundanely/lightly often, although enjoyably, and does
>> uniformly run for me,  so I suspect that I should check out level 2 again
>> to get what I can out of it.  Level 3 even seems to be boring sometimes,
>> without much happening,  so would anyone please advise on this.
>>
>> My bugbear constantly is that life seems to be so hectic (busy) that I
>> don't get enough time to do TROM;  once I clear out by back emails,  it'll
>> also be easier.  It takes so much discipline to make a session happen,
>>  but
>> I do have impromptu ones here or there throughout the day.
>>
>> I also post very little these days,  because my time would be better spent
>> actually doing a TROM session,  rather than discussing it.  I don't have
>> any questions about what the 'ol' man Dennis said in the pack, and the
>> lectures;  I just need to pull myself up by my bootstraps,  and do more of
>> it.
>>
>> Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa, (your loving hubby)
>>
>> p.s.  I'm so proud to know you,  Colleen !You are a rare and awesome
>> being,  like all the other TROMers are also.
>>
>> p.p.s.  If anyone wishes to advise on my session observations,  please
>> feel
>> free to do so.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Colleen K. Peltomaa
>> wrote:
>>
>>  *
>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>>> 
>>>
>>> Having Grade 2 delivered to me and at the same time reading about the IP
>>> state (Insanity Point) and Sensation  (01 Insanity and 02 Insanity).
>>>
>>> When I respond to the command or question I take a look and almost always
>>> see going through the IP and also the sensation of overwhelming another.
>>>
>>> Grade 2 and knowing the theory of the mind per TROM together help me to
>>> drop lifelong tendencies and habitual contentiousness.
>>>
>>

Re: [TROM1] A Benefit from TROM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Leoncio,
Thanks much.   I'll try that;  I'll hit the manual and study level 4
again,  and see what comes up.   I  did do the 8 overwhelms over a year
ago,  and enjoyed them quite a bit.   Let me try again,  and see what
happens.  I agree that doing some level 2 sometimes is a good idea,  and a
good test of what results will occur.   The proof is in the results.

Thanks,  Aarre


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:28 PM, Leôncio Madruga
wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Aarre
>
> My opinion about your level 3 is: you are prepared to start level 4. The
> end point on level 3 is "boring" plus "no more new scenes".
>
> And my opinion about your level 2 is: you should use level 2 if and only
> if you cannot timebreak a scene using level 3. The key point is timebreak
> easiness.
>
> Keep tromming
>
> Leoncio
>
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Re: [TROM1] A Benefit from TROM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Roberto,
I was thinking the same thing about checking level 4,  and if no good,
going back to level 3.  Thanks.

If you look at the EP of level 3,  which includes a quite silent and
un-upsettable mind,  would you not agree that that EP would be of a person
who no longer has a reactive mind,  because he shut it off ?

Aarre


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:36 PM,  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Aarre
>
>
>
> I had to go back to Level 2 several times because there was too much charge
>
> on Level 3. Maybe you should give Level 4 a try, no danger in doing so. If
> you
>
> do not get change there, then go back to Level 2 and run any remainder of
>
> change out of it.
>
>
>
> You wrote:
>
> >>"I know definitely that I'm not 'clear' per Dianetics,  so that I'm
> not finished level 3 for sure"
>
> Uhh, that's a false data! I attested and de-attested several times to
> Clear.
>
> Clear (any one of the many definitions) has nothing to do with the levels
> of TROM.
>
>
>
> Roberto
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Aarre Peltomaa [mailto:peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com]
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 27. März 2014 05:25
> *An:* The Resolution of Mind list
> *Betreff:* Re: [TROM1] A Benefit from TROM
>
>
>
> Colleen,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the write up.   Also remember what Dennis said about what to do
> if some level is giving too much trouble;  go back to an earlier level and
> work on that.  Sometimes I think that I should perhaps go back to level 2
> and have done so sometimes.  I don't seem to have much problem doing level
> 3,  but that concerns me,  because it seems to be too easy,  excepting that
> I can't get great detail visually sometimes,  and definitely am not 'clear'
> yet per Dianetics.
>
> I know definitely that I'm not 'clear' per Dianetics,  so that I'm not
> finished level 3 for sure.  My viewpoint also can't readily go through
> walls, and see the other side through the wall  yet,  as described by
> Dennis;  at least not like it would with using my eyes as the viewpoint.
> (my eyes would be smashed if they went through the wall.  hahaha !)   Level
> 3 seems to run mundanely/lightly often, although enjoyably, and does
> uniformly run for me,  so I suspect that I should check out level 2 again
> to get what I can out of it.  Level 3 even seems to be boring sometimes,
> without much happening,  so would anyone please advise on this.
>
>
>
> My bugbear constantly is that life seems to be so hectic (busy) that I
> don't get enough time to do TROM;  once I clear out by back emails,  it'll
> also be easier.  It takes so much discipline to make a session happen,  but
> I do have impromptu ones here or there throughout the day.
>
>
>
> I also post very little these days,  because my time would be better spent
> actually doing a TROM session,  rather than discussing it.  I don't have
> any questions about what the 'ol' man Dennis said in the pack, and the
> lectures;  I just need to pull myself up by my bootstraps,  and do more of
> it.
>
>
>
> Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa, (your loving hubby)
>
>
>
> p.s.  I'm so proud to know you,  Colleen !You are a rare and awesome
> being,  like all the other TROMers are also.
>
>
>
> p.p.s.  If anyone wishes to advise on my session observations,  please
> feel free to do so.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Colleen K. Peltomaa 
> wrote:
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Having Grade 2 delivered to me and at the same time reading about the IP
> state (Insanity Point) and Sensation  (01 Insanity and 02 Insanity).
>
> When I respond to the command or question I take a look and almost always
> see going through the IP and also the sensation of overwhelming another.
>
> Grade 2 and knowing the theory of the mind per TROM together help me to
> drop lifelong tendencies and habitual contentiousness.
>
> Several months ago I was having a great run with RI and Level 2 and then
> got heavily keyed in and dropped it and am now only reading the lectures,
> Grade 2, Sedona Method.   In a new unit of time shall regain lost footing
> on RI and Level 2.
>
> Dennis knew that on a forum such as this people would talk about TROM and
> everything else and still not do TROM and he admonished to also do it.
>
> "It's too simple."  I've hear

Re: [TROM1] A Benefit from TROM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Colleen,

Thanks for the write up.   Also remember what Dennis said about what to do
if some level is giving too much trouble;  go back to an earlier level and
work on that.  Sometimes I think that I should perhaps go back to level 2
and have done so sometimes.  I don't seem to have much problem doing level
3,  but that concerns me,  because it seems to be too easy,  excepting that
I can't get great detail visually sometimes,  and definitely am not 'clear'
yet per Dianetics.
I know definitely that I'm not 'clear' per Dianetics,  so that I'm not
finished level 3 for sure.  My viewpoint also can't readily go through
walls, and see the other side through the wall  yet,  as described by
Dennis;  at least not like it would with using my eyes as the viewpoint.
(my eyes would be smashed if they went through the wall.  hahaha !)   Level
3 seems to run mundanely/lightly often, although enjoyably, and does
uniformly run for me,  so I suspect that I should check out level 2 again
to get what I can out of it.  Level 3 even seems to be boring sometimes,
without much happening,  so would anyone please advise on this.

My bugbear constantly is that life seems to be so hectic (busy) that I
don't get enough time to do TROM;  once I clear out by back emails,  it'll
also be easier.  It takes so much discipline to make a session happen,  but
I do have impromptu ones here or there throughout the day.

I also post very little these days,  because my time would be better spent
actually doing a TROM session,  rather than discussing it.  I don't have
any questions about what the 'ol' man Dennis said in the pack, and the
lectures;  I just need to pull myself up by my bootstraps,  and do more of
it.

Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa, (your loving hubby)

p.s.  I'm so proud to know you,  Colleen !You are a rare and awesome
being,  like all the other TROMers are also.

p.p.s.  If anyone wishes to advise on my session observations,  please feel
free to do so.


On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Colleen K. Peltomaa
wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Having Grade 2 delivered to me and at the same time reading about the IP
> state (Insanity Point) and Sensation  (01 Insanity and 02 Insanity).
>
> When I respond to the command or question I take a look and almost always
> see going through the IP and also the sensation of overwhelming another.
>
> Grade 2 and knowing the theory of the mind per TROM together help me to
> drop lifelong tendencies and habitual contentiousness.
>
> Several months ago I was having a great run with RI and Level 2 and then
> got heavily keyed in and dropped it and am now only reading the lectures,
> Grade 2, Sedona Method.   In a new unit of time shall regain lost footing
> on RI and Level 2.
>
> Dennis knew that on a forum such as this people would talk about TROM and
> everything else and still not do TROM and he admonished to also do it.
>
> "It's too simple."  I've heard said.   Compulsive games players crave
> complexity not simplicity, and I'm speaking of myself.
>
> colleen
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [TROM1] Can't find any more charge

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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David,
A belated congratulations on your serenity.  That is s  excellent !
Aarre Peltomaa


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:26 AM, David M. Pelly wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>
>
> I reached a new level in my processing.
>
> This morning I woke up and began processing.
>
> I looked everywhere  and ran everything;
>
> inflictions
> deprivations,
> revelations,
> rejections
>
> forced this and forced that.
>
> "Must not be knowns" and "must not knows",
>
>
>
> and there was no  detectable charge on any one of them.
>
> There was nothing that begged for my attention, like is always the case.
>
> No false and limiting postulates floating around, causing trouble, as is
> always the case.
>
>
>
>
> My mind was totally quiet.
>
> Couldn't  find anything to "deal" with, even when trying and looking, and
> digging.
>
>
>
>
>
> With the exception of key outs and a few periods of reaching "peak states"
>
>
>  during conventional auditing,   since 97,
>
> this is a first.
>
>
>
> Especially on solo and more especially on TROM.
>
>
>
> I suspect there will be some come up in a few days,
>
> so as soon as I can get away,  I am going to cautiously  go and take my
> new wheels  for a spin in the rough and tumble of the world.
>
>
> I want to especially look at some voluptuous women and see what happens.
>
> Maybe and hopefully  they will stick their  big boobs in my face, like so
> often happens.
>
> I hope I can keep my TRs in.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [TROM1] Pete re: Have you run RI on the meter ?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Paul,
Very well stated !   I love it !   TROM is not audited by another,  so that
one doesn't need to care about the TA setting.   Yes !!
Aarre Peltomaa


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Hi Richard and All,
>
> My answer comes from experience as a Class VI Auditor.
>
>
> On Mar 16, 2014, at 10:50 AM, rronde...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>  *
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> 
>> My name is Richard and I have been doing Trom for quite a while. In my
>> experience starting off with RI's always creates a rising tone arm up to
>> the point of a blowdown. I've assumed the starvation for mass has been
>> satisfied at that point. But the tone arm is frequently still out of range
>> so I use a reach and withdraw or various rubbing to handle the residual
>> mass buildup. The end result is always an F/N at around 2.6-3.0 tone arm. I
>> always start the chart with an in range TA.
>>
>
>  Will someone explain to me why the rubbings of either the body or objects
>> so dramatically drops the tone arm?
>>
>>  First of all, high TA is an indication of no confront.  This is an
> indication of being interiorized.  Things that can lead to interiorization
> are overts , withholds. basically fear, anger, etc.  High TA is a physical
> phenomenon.  In auditing, it is difficult to audit over a high TA.  The
> reason being that one has interiorized and is not there, not in session
> with his body.  So an auditor giving a session has to get the PC reading on
> the meter or results will be very hard to come by.  The reason is that the
> PC is not able to produce good meter readings because of the high TA.
>
> High TA being a physical thing means that the PC's body is not closely in
> tune with what the PC is doing and not only are reads very hard to come by
> but in most cases cannot even be seen with a meter.  Because of this, not
> only are reads hard to come by if at all but any kind of needle movement
> has to be suspect as if may or may not be a reaction to the auditing
> question.
>
> So what happens when the TA is brought down with rubbing, touching, hand
> cream, etc. just brings the PC's body more in tune with the consciousness,
> the soul, the spirit, the Thetan.  Now if you are using the meter to meter
> what the mind and the Thetan, consciousness are doing, it can be seen on
> the needle movement.
>
> I would say that somewhere between Levels 2, 3 and 4 of TROM, the TA
> (chronic wise) should be in the 3.0 range for males and 2.0 range for
> females.  Meaning that no particular actions are necessary to bring the TA
> down for the PC has now eliminated those reasons in the mind to back away
> and withhold.
>
> Also bringing the TA down before doing RI or any TROM action is not a
> necessity nor does it do any enhancing of TROM actions.  It is purely a
> physical body thing that is necessary for reliable readings on a meter for
> an auditor to assess what the PC is doing with the auditing question.  TROM
> is not audited action.
>
> Keep on TROMmoing, Paul
>
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Re: [TROM1] The Pilot (Ken Ogger): Cosmic History.

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Thanks so much,  Antony !
I've read and printed this volume before,  but it was good to be refreshed
of it again.  It rekindles my urgency to get on with the show,  and do TROM
rather than discussing it.  We've got to get the job done this lifetime,
as all these adventures in the 'Cosmic History' have grown  very,  very
'long in the tooth' !
Much Appreciated.
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267Mississauga,  Ontario,  Canada
(219) 299-4944US  number


On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Ant Phillips wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> For your information,  I have just started sending the Pilot's Cosmic
> History out in weekly instalments.  It is a discussion group (list similar
> to this TROM list) but concerned solely with the Pilot's Cosmic History,
> and discussions and questions concerning it..  You can see details and
> enroll by going to:  http://lists.worldtrans.org/
> mailman/listinfo/cosmichistory
> This Cosmic History list is concerned solely with that subject.  I have
> sent it out seven times in the past. Very interesting  as I have changed my
> mind quite a bit about it and this time will be the last time (I expect).
>
> Your participation is invited, includeing writing on that subject if you
> are interested.
>
> All best wishes,
>
> Ant
>
>
> --
> Antony Phillips.
> www.antology.info
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmXZ4X_uYRo (in Danish)
> Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdgqweh-4WI (English interview)
> Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8sGp6AwuK4 (English interview)
> http://scientolipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Antony_Phillips (English
> biography)
> ant.phill...@post8.tele.dk
> (+45) 45 88 88 69
> Admin to SelfClearing2004,
> SuperScio, Cosmic History
>  mailing lists
> Jernbanevej 3f 4th
> DK 2800 Lyngby
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[TROM1] To Slim, about Cancer

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Slim,
Please look up Dr. David Brownstein and Cancer.  He is one of many who
exposes lies that the medicos have told us,  and gives solutions.
Aarre Peltomaa
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Re: [TROM1] Im slim and I am the 1

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Hey Slim,
Thanks.
Start eating some green vegetables and fruits,  preferably not cooked.  I
don't like to admit that that means they are still alive,  but yes,  they
are still alive.  I think the ' I must eat and kill something so that my
body can live' is retardedly stupid,  but that's what we have to work with
right now.  Eventually,  I'd like to create all of my energy spiritually,
and not have to eat anything (breatharian).  Do avoid the meats,  as they
will acidify your system,  and proteins are also more dirty burning fuels,
as is diesel.   Feel free to email Colleen about nutrition matters,  as she
is very versed in it;  she is not purely a vegetarian,  as I have been
since the mid 1980's,  so she will have more 'R' (reality) on the meat
eating.

It's sad that this physical universe is a force universe;  I remember L.Ron
Hubbard's stating his sadness over this also.

I also wouldn't hurt a bug,  and even pick worms off of the sidewalk,  so
that they won't bake in the sun.  I can't do that with every one of them,
as I wouldn't get anything else done.  I don't feel like I have the
automatic right to injure them just because my body is bigger.


'This is to let the higher up's, or anyone else for that matter,   know,
not to fuck with me.

Although they try,  it just backfires on em.'

Can you elaborate upon this,  Slim?;  I find this statement extremely
interesting, and I'm sure that others on this list do too.  Also,  what
were the three times that they tried to knock you off?



Aarre Peltomaa

peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com

(647) 202-7267


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Slim . wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hey Aarre :  )
>
> Just read your post this morning.
>
> Randy is my bodies name.
> Slim is my spiritual name in this universe.
> The 1 is my name outside of this universe. ( spelled the 1 not the one )
> Ive heard others call me asshole too .
> Usually while driving on the freeways.
>
> Hope this clears that up . !
>
> Ive been a poor eater my whole life, sorry to say.
>
> Mostly high protein meats and very little greens.
>
> Im learning the hard way.
> But now I know and thats gonna change. It has already. Thx for the tip.
> Way too many things to know in this universe.
>
> Im  Randy ( on this planet ) and i am slim ( in this universe ) and I am
> the 1 ( from another space time dimension universe ) aka my home universe.
> Ok ?
>
> I will only use force to the same degree that im being forced and I will
> only prevent to the degree that I am prevented.
>
> Fair is fair. Equality is equality.  Balance is balance.
>
> This is to let the higher up's, or anyone else for that matter,   know,
> not to fuck with me.
>
> Although they try,  it just backfires on em.
>
> If they dont push me I wont push them but if they do, it will get them
> nowhere. Like a human trying to push a parked car with the breaks on.
>
> Im bullet proof . Its a set of postulates I use as a shield so to speak.
> Any universe. Brought em with me into this one. It depends on the
> universe.  But this set is used in alot of the ones I travel through to get
> here.
>
> Others have tried to take me out three times now. Hahaha. Not gonna
> happen. Im too powerful and they know it. I'll leave when im ready and no
> sooner.
>
> I just get back up, dust myself off and carry on.
>
> I dont lie, I dont take whats not mine and im 50/50 all the way. Its a 50/
> 50 universe.
>
> But this hasnt always been the case. Ive killed, tortured, lied , ripped
> off stuff, to / from self and others. We all have. And had allot stuff like
> it done to us.
>
> I wont kill a bug . Life is life , no matter what form its taking or how
> small. In fact,  Ill save its life if I can.
>
> Reptiles,  fish, birds, mammals,  incects, plants, planets. All included.
> Our planet is a plant life form and she feeds off the energy generated by
> our sun and the water on her surface.  Shes an energarian life form. Plants
> are too. Many but not all need light energy. Some more than others.
>
> So ya ill eat em ( other life forms) but I dont do the killing. Lol. They
> gota be dead already.
>
> Thats just an example of how messed up life in this universe has become.
>
> Where survival of ones body , ( a life goal,) becomes killing another life
> form , ( non life goal.) As a means of survival. crazy.
>
> Like a fish that eats smaller fish. Or a tiger that eats a human. Etc.
> You know what I mean ?
>
> This planet is filled with land mines and im not talken just 

Re: [TROM1] Experiencing exteriorzation

[Aarre Peltomaa]

unless the root of the problem is addressed.

Go here right now:

=> http://paleoburn.com/go/candida

<http://scalecrm.net/messenger/handlers/track_clicks.php?c=69651%7C304%7C216%7Cbroad&u=paleoburn.com/go/candida>
Ken

PS. You'll be shocked at how many aches and pains you regularly suffer from
will disappear when you cleanse yourself of Candida...

...go here and check this out, this woman has FIGURED IT OUT, and even
paints the connection between Candida and cancer, this is WILD:

=> Cancer is a fungus, you gotta see
this...<http://scalecrm.net/messenger/handlers/track_clicks.php?c=69651%7C304%7C216%7Cbroad&u=paleoburn.com/go/candida>



Basically, Randy,  you have to alkalize and oxygenate your body system.
That's an order,  because we need your assistance too much to

have you leave us from a form that can send emails to us.  Most of us,
including me,  not not wish your departure permanently from our comm
lines.  Stick with us for awhile,  please ?!



Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa

peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com

(647) 202-7267
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On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Slim . wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hey Cory,
>
> Rather than telling you in detail about my OBEs, for your book, ill tell
> you about the first one I noticed and almost did a bunk with.
>
> It was around 1981 or 2. Salt lake city utah COS mission.
>
> I was finishing up the first course I ever took called the Success through
> communications course in div 6.
>
> Its basically a TR course for new guys. $80.
>
> It was Dennis who created the TR drills btw, ( thx Denny )
>
> Anyways , I went out during the evening coffee break and was walking
> around using my eyes as an anchor . I was at total peace and serenity . I
> didnt consider my spiritual being as spherical like you but I was about a
> foot and a half above my head. I was not able to speak anymore but I could
> still use my eyeballs and could even "see" a bit without them.
>
> It was quite the surprise as I had no Idea I was not my body until then.
>
> I decided to venture away from my body and that's when it all went south.
> I slammed back in and was covered in sweat from head to toe. Not a little ,
> allot.
> I was amazed and shaking a little too. Happy as happy gets.
>
> LRH became my god . I was like man. Ill do anything for him now ANYTHING.
> I even quit my job and became a staff member.
>
> Ya, my job was as a body router.  My supervisers sent me out in literally
> -16 below weather to bring others in for coffee and meet the div 6 regs.
>
> I was like 22 or so I think.
>
> Moving forward to 1984,
>
> In 1984, I had what id call my favorite OBE or exteriorzation, if you
> prefer. I real life changer for me prior to using TROM.
>
> This planet was slammed by a rock and completly destroyed into a trillion
> or so fragments . I recall it very well.
>
> I was sitting on my sofa watching tv and was pissed off at my gf for
> fucking some body builder guy and breaking up with me while we still lived
> together.
>
> Next thing i knew I was sitting about as far away as our moon with
> everyone else who lived on the planet. Out of our bodies.
>
> Then back on the sofa again. I didnt know what was going on and thought I
> had a recall of an incident from the past and died in it.
> Latter in life while using TROM. I realised we  actually experienced a
> planet reset or what I call taking a postulate out of existence and that it
> was me who did it from outside the universe. ( pats myself on back )
>
> Timebroke the the boulder that hit it, out of existence so it never hit
> and it never happened. Actually TB the decision another made to send it
> towards earth to be precise.
>
> This planets been through many resets and we may be in for another soon.
> Fukashima has fuked shit up bad. New Comets from the same folks continue
> our way from the on going game.  My body has cancers from radiation poison
> and just had left kidney removed oct 3rd At the palo alto VA hospital.This
> is the second cancer ive had to cure and might have liver cancer too now.
>
> The planet is in bad shape.again. But it can

Re: [TROM1] Asparagus and Cancer

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Thanks, David,
This was excellent;  I need to 'stalk' up on my asparagus (pun intended).
Aarre Peltomaa


On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 6:00 PM, David M. Pelly wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>  From a reader of the following message on asparagus:
>  When I was in the USN I was stationed in Key West, FL. I worked at the
> clinic at Naval Air Station on Big Coppitt Key just a few mile north of Key
> West. The hospital at Key West was for outpatient only for retired armed
> forces personnel that lived in the area. If you needed to be hospitalized
> you were sent to Homestead AFB Florida. I had the day off and just went
> inside the hospital(Corpsman barracks were next to hospital). There was a
> retired navy man that worked in the lab and he was very interesting
> gentleman to talk with. He was a retired biochemist from the USN. he asked
> me what was going on that day and I said I had the day off. I wish I was
> working as the crew on today was taking a sailor to Homestead as he had a
> very bad kidney infection. Now this elderly gent told me the man should
> have eaten more asparagus and he wouldn't have that problem. I asked why?
> I'll never forget him saying do you eat asparagus and I said yes, I love
> them. He replied you notice how your urine stinks after eating asparagus? I
> said well I never thought it was what I ate but yes it does have a pungent
> odor. It is because it is detoxifying your body of harmful chemicals!!!
> This was back in 1986 when I was stationed there and to read this email
> again I had to share this story...Eat more asparagus my friends.
> *Asparagus -- Who knew?*
>
> My Mom had been taking the full-stalk canned style
> asparagus, pureed it and took 4 tablespoons in
> the morning and 4 tablespoons later in the day. She did
> this for over a month. She is on chemo pills for Stage 3
> lung cancer in the pleural area and her cancer cell
> count went from 386 down to 125 as of this past week.
> Her oncologist said she will not need to see him for 3
> months.
> *THE ARTICLE:*
> Several years ago I met a man seeking asparagus for a
> friend who had cancer. He gave me a copy of an article,
> entitled "Asparagus For Cancer" printed in the
> Cancer News Journal, December 1979. I will share it
> here, just as it was shared with me: I am a
> biochemist, and have specialized in the relation of diet
> to health or over 50 years. Several years ago, I learned
> of the discovery of Richard R. Vensal, D.D.S. that
> asparagus might cure cancer. Since then, I have worked
> with him on his project. We have accumulated a number
> of favorable case histories. Here are a few examples:
>
> *Case No. 1,* A man with an almost hopeless case
> of Hodgkin's disease (cancer of the lymph glands) who
> was completely incapacitated. Within 1 year of starting
> the asparagus therapy, his doctors were unable to
> detect any signs of cancer, and he was back on a
> schedule of strenuous exercise.
> *Case No. 2*, A successful businessman, 68 years old,
> suffered from cancer of the bladder for 16 years.
> After years of medical treatments, including radiation
> without improvement, he began taking asparagus. Within 3
> months, examinations revealed that his bladder tumor
> had disappeared and that his kidneys were normal.
>
> *Case No. 3,* On March 5th 1971, a man who had lung
> cancer was put on the operating table where they found
> lung cancer so widely spread that it was inoperable.
> The surgeon sewed him up and declared his case
> hopeless. On April 5th he heard about the Asparagus
> therapy and immediately started taking it. By August,
> x-ray pictures revealed that all signs of the cancer had
> disappeared. He is now back at his regular business
> routine.
> *Case No. 4,* A woman had been troubled for a number of
> years with skin cancer. She developed different skin cancers
> which were diagnosed by the acting specialist as advanced.
> Within 3 months after beginning asparagus therapy, the skin
> specialist said her skin looked fine with no more skin lesions.
> This woman reported that the asparagus therapy also cured her
> kidney disease, which had started in 1949. She had over 10
> operations for kidney stones, and was receiving government
> disability payments for an inoperable, terminal, kidney condition.
> She attributes the cure of this kidney trouble entirely to the
> asparagus treatment.
> I was not surprised at this result as `The elements of
> materia medica', edited in 1854 by a Professor at the
> University of Pennsylvania , stated that asparagus was

Re: [TROM1] Games - Total Freedom

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Ludo,
I've caught Ron contradicting himself several times;  we should take what
he (or anyone else) says with a few grains of salt.
Thanks,  Aarre


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Ant Phillips wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> At 09:25 03-10-2013, Ludo Vermeulen wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I believe Ron was refering to total freedom while playing games.
>>
>
> Well you can see for certain what Ron was referring to if you read the
> chapter in the book referred to.
> All the best,
> Ant
>
>
> __**_
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> http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom
>
___
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Re: [TROM1] Games - Total Freedom

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hello Antony,
I agree that the person is happiest when he has a balance of good goals,
freedoms,  and barriers.  Even Dennis said so himself also.   Thanks for
the posting.  I do believe that the being should be able at will to totally
turn off games and therefore have Nirvana (nothingness) anytime he wishes,
and then turn games (therefore the physical universe) back on anytime he
wishes;  sort of like turning a light switch on and off.  This would be
even better if he can reduce one or the other like one would with a light
dimmer (rheostat).  That would be the ultimate in my opinion.
Aarre Peltomaa,
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com,
Brampton, Ontario,  Canada,
(647) 202-7267


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Ant Phillips wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>  Dear Trommer,
>
> While we are talking of games, and because some here have been in
> connection with Scientology, I wonder if you are aware that L Ron Hubbard
> wrote "Only stupid visionaries chant of endless freedom. "
>
> I have recently written a bit about it, which you could see at:
> http://www.antology.info/articledetails.php?id_art=24
>
> Good Tromming,
>
> Ant
> **
>
> ** --
> Antony Phillips.
> www.antology.info
>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmXZ4X_uYRo (in Danish)
> ant.phill...@post8.tele.dk
> (+45) 45 88 88 69
> Admin to SelfClearing2004,
> SuperScio, Cosmic History
> mailing lists
> Jernbanevej 3f 4th
> DK 2800 Lyngby
>
> ___
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> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] A demo of TIPM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Colleen,
This is extremely interesting,  but it's late at night for me to get
philosophical about it.   It looks like it could be a dichotomy,  except
both radiances look the same shape and colour.  I guess that there must be
all postulates and opposing postulates in both sides,  and that leads to
confusion in both the purple areas and the more 'calm,  quietude'
sandwiched in between where our Milky Way is ?Perhaps that accounts for
how we are calmly nuts on this planet ?  More solid MEST is being created
in the middle,  obviously.I'll have to listen to the Insanity Lecture
about the creation of MEST again;  which exact one was it again.
What if you send this out on the list,  and get a discussion going.   That
would be exciting !
Permission to publish this writing granted.  Refer me to the exact lecture
again, please.
Love,  Aarre


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Colleen K. Peltomaa wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>
> I think this is correct, let me know what you see here in relation to
> Dennis' theory of TIPM.   BTW, this comes from Nassim Haramein's Facebook
> site.
>
> colleen
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] The mind

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

David,
That is so excellent !   That is so real to me,  and I too need to do more
natural,  instinctual TROM about town,  instead of just 'waiting for a
formal session time'.
Aarre Peltomaa


On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 10:29 AM, David Pelly  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>
>
> It has been about five yrs since I first got into TROM  and today  I had a
> revelation, a cognition on something Dennis said.
>
> It is: consciously  make the mind do, what it does automatically.
>
>
> I walked to the store this morning and I began thinking about that.
>
> I mean I knew that, but I now realized I was glib on it.
>
> This time   the meaning of it or the full understanding of it  hit me,
> thoroughly.
>
>
> (Dennis'  writing and thinking is on way too high of a gradient, at least
> for me.)
>
> I began to think of all the issues, all the problems I have, all the
> blocks that I have and I began to look back on my track ( this life) of the
> incidents or more the subject matter.
>
>
> I began to look and make the mind and body do the things it does
> automatically and really get into it, with all the mental horsepower I had,
> and time break all that was coming up, as I was walking home and it ran
> like pulling the right end of a yarn on a knitted sweater.
>
> It sure felt good.
>
>
> I  also  find doing TROM works better when going for a walk.
>
>
> That was the case even when I first started with TROM.
>
>
> And co-inciding that walk at the right time when the mind is ready  to or
> in the right state to process.
>
>
>
>
>
> I hope this helps someone else.
>
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Slim . wrote:
>
>> *
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> 
>>
>> The mind.. is not some thing that I have or you have or another has
>> like brains for example.
>>
>> Its universal.  What we consider important in the mind is not.
>>
>> Is there anything in the mind that is not in your past ?
>>
>> Everything in the mind is in the past. It IS the past of creations.  Past
>> postulates.
>> A postulate is a creayed thing. Its gonna be in the mind forever. The
>> importance need not be.
>>
>> The resolution of mind is in other words the resolution of your
>> individual importances in the mind. The past. Its just as easy to see
>> anothers past as it is yours.
>>
>> Knowing who's is who is another story.
>>
>> There are many things we consider important right now . Importance is not
>> a bad thing.  Its the things consodered important you know not what of that
>> are the source difficulty.
>>
>> You can search endlessly for reasons why you do things or dont do things
>> or act certain ways to certain circumstances etc. But I can assure you your
>> efforts are futile.
>>
>> When you resolve all the importances in the mind you'll resolve all those
>> things you consider undesirable as well. Youll be free from the influences
>> of those things that were once important.
>>
>> So dont go looking for specifics.  Just resolve the importances in the
>> mind as they show up as you go.
>>
>> Makes no difference what they are . What ever it is will be resolved on
>> level 5.
>>
>> So just fo the exercises 1 through 5 and what ever it is will be
>> resolved.
>>
>> Youll also resolve things you didnt even reslize were " things " along
>> the way as well.
>>
>> You'll understand more about life than you are capable of imagining at
>> your present state.
>>
>> Life on this planet and in this universe may soon  seem soo
>> ridiculous, ludicrous or futile youll be happy to leave it for a better
>> place.
>>
>> But youll have more fun than youve ever had along the way . I know, I
>> have.
>>
>> The mind IS  a place. Its a place made up of the past. Important or not.
>> Its all there exactly as it was when it was created. Same location in
>> space, same time.
>>
>> Can there be an up without a down ? A left without a right? A good
>> without a bad ? Yes but not in this universe. Youll need to leave it to
>> have these things. Can there be a past without the present ? Not in our
>> universe.
>>
>> Its a dual structured universe. Dont fight it. Youll just be playing
>&

Re: [TROM1] Differences between postulates

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Cory,

The word 'be' means your receiving from another.
*Must be known* -   Someone/something else must know you.  You receive his
knowing.
*Must know* - You must know someone/something else.  He receives your
knowing.
*Must not be known* - Someone/something else must not know you.  You must
not receive his knowing.
*Must not know* - You must not know someone/something else.  He must not
receive your knowing.

The question is 'who' must know or not know,  or be known or not be
known.   We assume that it is you,  unless stated otherwise.  If Cory must
be known,  then 'Susan' must know Cory.   If  'Susan' must be known,  then
you (Cory) need to know 'Susan'.
Study the chart to determine 'who' must or must not know.  Who is the
subject in question?

Aarre Peltomaa


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Cory keeler wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Ah ok I suspected that before thanks. What I meant to write was must not
> be known vs must not know. Why does he include the be part? And must be
> known and must know. Whats the difference? Thanks!
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Pete Mclaughlin <
> pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> *
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> 
>> Hi Cory
>>
>> And welcome to TROM.
>>
>> These two are the same postulate.
>>
>>
>> Keep on TROMing
>> Pete
>>
>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 1:05 AM, Cory keeler  wrote:
>>
>> > *
>> > The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> > 
>> > Hi everyone. I'm having difficulty seeing differences between the
>> postulates of mustn't be known and must not be known. Are they not just the
>> same concept but reworded? Any examples?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> > ___
>> > Trom mailing list
>> > Trom@lists.newciv.org
>> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>> ___
>> Trom mailing list
>> Trom@lists.newciv.org
>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>>
>
>
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>
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Re: [TROM1] Supplementary Lectures now in Kindle Format

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Pete,
Thanks much;  I'll have to check it out.   Finding a reference quickly
is a big bonus,  especially since I'm a methodical,  but not quick reader.
Aarre Peltomaa

On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> I have gone through the Supplemental Lectures sentence by sentence and
> eliminated anything that distracted me from the understanding of TROM that
> Dennis was trying to communicate.
>  I also broke up blocks of text that lumped several subjects together
> without a break and put in appropriate paragraph breaks.
>
> I put in chapter breaks and chapter titles so the table of contents works
> as an outline of the lectures making it easier to look things up.
>
> Kindle for the PC software has an excellent word and phrase search
> function so you can look up any word or phrase and get a list of all
> occurences within the e-book.  This acts like a super index.
>
> Finally I changed the numbered order of the Supplemental Lectures Books as
> it made more sense to make Bond Breaking # 4 instead of #1.
>
> All of this was rather severe editing and some will feel I have gone
> overboard. If so the older versions are still there and will continue to
> stay up at www.tromhelp.com.
>
> I will be putting these Kindle versions up at Amazon.com so felt they must
> meet at least college level English formatting standards.
>
> I hope you will all read them before you shoot me down for making changes.
>
> Sincerely
> Pete McLaughlin
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [TROM1] TROM Portugese edition

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Alberto,
Thank you very much !!
Aarre

On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>  Hi All
>
> Thanks to the work of Alberto Santos Franco we now have a TROM in
> Portuguese.  You will find it at www.tromhelp.com/Services at the bottom
> of the web page.
>
> Thank You Alberto.
>
> Keep on TROMing
> Pete
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Levels of consciousness RI and level 5

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Randy,
Wonderful explanation !!
Aarre

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Spe  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>
>  Some interesting points with level 2, RI and level five .
>
> Finding differences and similarities on level two for example.
>
> Theres nothing in this universe that is not similar in some way . It might
> be a similar location in space, time , color, temperature, size, weight etc.
>
> No two things are exactly alike either.
>
> Sequence of creation. ? Two things can be created simultaneously yes, but
> if not, Which came first.? How about location in space ? One is always in
> different location for there to be more than one. even if they are
> identical in every other way.
>
> This can also be said for self and others when it comes to creation . A
> postulate is a causative consideration. It's created in space and time.
>
> RI , have another create an importance ( others )  . Then create an
> importance.( self )
>
> Place it around you 360
>
> When you come up the line so to speak, you'll soon realize it's
> Self/others that actually does both as in one. At this point,  you'll
>  probably pop right out of the universe
>
> Opposition with self is no different than opposition with others. If you
> can control self , you can control others. Just be willing to be controlled
> by others as well . Any opposition in life will reduce to the same degree.
> You willingness to be controlled will empower you to control others only to
> the same degree.
>
> All of these things are unique to this binary universe. Once you leave ,
> none of this applies.
>
> It's the nature of the physical universe. Not the spiritual being . We are
> limitless in every way without exception.
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [TROM1] How to stick another in a degrading universe?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Randy,
I actually put in 4 years out of the billion in 1984-1988.  I'll probably
just skip the
other 999,999,996 years;  it's called time off !!  I already 'gave' at the
office !  [?]
Aarre  [?]

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Spe  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Easy . Tell them it's for a good cause.
>
> Then
>
> Have then sign a billion year service contract.
>
> SLIM  :  )
> ___
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> Trom@lists.newciv.org
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>
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Re: [TROM1] running repair-of-importance

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Thanks,  Randy !
This is good data.
Aarre

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Spe  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> " have another bring something into existence "
>
> It means exactly what it says .
>
> Example.
>
> When you ask another person to bring you a glass of water, you do two
> things. You decide you want them to bring you a glass of water and you ask
> them to bring them a glass of water.
>
> When they bring you a glass of water they are in fact bringing something
> into existence that did not exist until they did so.
>
> Weather or not they in fact bring you the water makes no difference. The
> repair of importance is made by your desire. You need not be verbal about
> it either.
>
> Once you've created the desire of having another bring something into
> existence, you put it around you 360 degrees.
>
> It doesn't need to be water . It can be anything you like as long as it's
> another you are having bring it into existence.
>
> Then you bring something into existence and put it around you 360 degrees.
>
> You can just use self or others or both self and others from time to time
> but both self and others together or separator should be used equally.
>
> You should do this before during and after your time  breaking sessions.
>
>  It's up to you to decide how much RI is needed. With practice you'll get
> a good feel for being " topped off ".
>
> Many times running RI will brings things up for me to time break at which
> time I go right into general time breaking of what ever shows up . Then I
> know I'm topped off. But that's just one indication.  Usually, I  just feel
> topped off, comfortable , peaceful relaxed , powerful or  just normal and
> focused.
>
> Hope this helps out : )
>
> Have a nice day 
>
> SLIM
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Jurgen,
I agree that the word 'made' seems superfluous,  and could be left out;
however, I don't think that it changes the meaning.  Is this really
important ?
Aarre Peltomaa

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Jurgen Kluft wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Trommers,
>
> I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the
> whole thing sink in.
> When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this
> point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake.
>
> It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’:
>
> “
>
> The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure:
> 1.The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate
> that it shall be known.2.The postulate taking the effect out of
> existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known.3.The
> postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known.
> 4.The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be
> made not-known.
>
> “
>
> The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be *made* not-known’.
> It is of my understanding that the word ‘*made*’ should be removed.
>
> Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made
> known’ or ‘make known’.
> Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not
> known’ or ‘make not known’.
>
> We can thus abbreviate the above four points:
> 1. Make known - Know
> 2. Make not known - Not know
> 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other)
> 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other)
>
> And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual:
> “
> SELFOTHERS1. Make known.
> 2. Make not-known
> 3. Know.
> 4. Not-know.Know.
> Not-know.
> Make known.
> Make not-known.
> “
>
> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> -Jurgen
>
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Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 18

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Vladimir,
Thank you for clarifying for the hundredth time what a cross-packaged
postulate set consists of.   How can this be so,  so, so  difficult for the
others to understand ?
It's so,  so simple !!   The perfect opposition to 'to love'  is 'to not be
loved'.  The perfect opposition to 'to not love'  is 'to be loved'.Two
Complementary and two Opposition postulates are right within the
same four-postulate package which is NOT, NOT,  cross-packaged.  The
perfect complement of 'to love' is 'to be loved',   and the perfect
complement of 'to not love' is 'to not be loved'.   How could that be so
damn complicated?
To ask at a baseball game if 'Should I throw the baseball'  would be
cross-packaged with 'should I catch the basketball'.   One is a baseball,
and one is a basketball.  They AREN'T EVEN PLAYING IN THE SAME BUILDING OR
PLAYING THE SAME GAME!!   The complement of 'to throw a baseball' is 'to
catch a baseball',  not 'to catch a football'.   The opposition of 'to
throw a baseball' is 'to not catch a baseball',  not 'to not catch a
volleyball'.  To find the complement,  go sideways/horizontal on the
chart.  To find the opposition,  go diagonally from top-left to
bottom-right,  or from bottom-left to top-right on the chart.  To
go vertically/up and down, on the left or right sides of the chart,  one
will find the positive or negative, positives on top, and negatives on the
bottom.
The postulate 'to drive a car' is NOT, NOT, NOT  the opposition of 'to not
be flown in an airplane';  that is cross-packaged since one is a car, and
the other is an airplane.
There is a more general overall postulate of 'to bring someone somewhere',
or it's opposition of 'to not be brought somewhere',  which oversees the
earlier two postulates,  but it's still a DIFFERENT postulate, not exactly
the same.

THE TWO PERFECT OPPOSITIONS WITHIN A POSTULATE SET ARE EACH DIAGONAL ON THE
CHART OF A CORRECTLY PACKAGED FOUR-POSTULATE SET.  ALL FOUR POSTULATES MUST
BE MATCHED UP TO NOT BE CROSS-PACKAGED;  OF COURSE TWO PAIRS WILL BE
OPPOSITIONS, AND TWO PAIRS WITH BE COMPLEMENTS.  THERE ARE SIX PAIRS IN A
POSTULATE SET, INCLUDING TWO NEGATIVE/POSITIVE PAIRS.

SIMPLIFIED...
AB   COUNT SIX !
- -
 -  -  AB, AC, AD, BC, BD, CD.
-   - -
-
--  - -
---   -
-  -- -
-   -      -  -
    CD
COMPLEMENTS... A-B, C-D
OPPOSITIONS...A-D, C-B
NEGATIVE/POSITIVES...
A-C, B-D

Correct ? !   Thanks to Vladimir.
Aarre Peltomaa
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Svoboda Vladimir wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> and my 4 cents:
> Bonding and Cross-packaging
> I often observe a lot of considerations wich are fotmulated as ''if A,
> then B'': If I don't work, then don't survive. I work to survive. Make
> money or die.
> If I make a package with these goals ( work and survive), it will be the
> classical cross-packaging, because these are different goals.
>
> 1. Must be survived.  3. Must work
>
> 2. Must be not survived.4. Must'nt work
>
> It's daily madness of somebody.
>
> If I run two separate packages it will be correct and clear.
>
> But what have these goals in common? These goals are methods to know is
> the answer.
>
> It is a simple example how to bond different goals. Paul gave more
> complicated example of this bonding scenario: "Then there is the mind which
> we have all set up and continue to set
> up moment by moment as each of us makes the simple postulate ... next
> time and from now on I will always   or never . most
> of the time will now ___ when ... (the old bonding scenario that
> Dennis brings up)"
>
> 10.02.2013, 16:02, "trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org" <
> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org>:
> > Send Trom mailing list submissions to
> > trom@lists.newciv.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
> > or, via email, send a message with subject

Re: [TROM1] @ Paul T. RE Postulate Failure Chart @ Colleen

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Paul,
I thought that Dennis said that once you got the basic package totally
flat,  then there aren't millions of PFC's anymore through the 76 trillion
years.  Sort of like the destruction of the death star in one Star Wars
episode, and all the androids just shutting down and going limp once the
destruction was effected.  The androids got their energy and signals from
the death star (analogous to the Basic To Know Package).
Aarre Peltomaa

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> On Feb 8, 2013, at 4:00 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
>>
>> Subject: [TROM1] @ Paul T. RE Postulate Failure Chart
>>
>> You say:
>>
>
>  "That is probably true in general for me too.  Simple TimeBreaking is
>> quite sufficient.  (Dennis' greatest contribution)  I don't see that it is
>> necessary to go thru a complete Postulate Failure Chart.  I think one gets
>> a little smarter as well as one does not typically install
>> all 8 possible complementary postulates packages automatically and
>> unconsciously if one is no longer into playing games or stuck in games
>> conditions."
>>
>> I find your statement provocative re the Postulate Failure Chart, and am
>> not sure how to take that.  Myself, I see Dennis' greatest contribution IS
>> the PFC.
>>
>> Colleen
>>
>
> I look at it this way.  TimeBreaking is the process and the PFC is the
> road map.  The PFC was derived from straight forward logic, a mathematical
> recipe which has existed for ages.
>
> TimeBreaking was a new concept for a clearing process that was created out
> of the blue by Dennis.  The minute one realizes that they are forming a
> games condition, TimeBreak it don't let it hang and then when you fail at
> letting it hang go on to make another postulate leg and another and another
> until you then have a complete PFC.  Catch it at the beginning before it
> goes too far or to a complete PFC.
>
> As time passes one will certainly run into new complete packages and even
> incomplete ones that they still have as I wouldn't think that one could
> possibly catch all the full or partial packages that one has ever made
> since the beginning of time.  And when you have pulled all the charge
> available on Level 5, that does not mean that you have pulled every
> package.  All that can be said is that you have TimeBroken all of the
> easily available packages.  It does not mean that every single one of them
> has been located and TimeBroken.  I am also sure that there are a multitude
> more non-life packages than there are pro life packages.  What needs to
> happen is that once the major PFC items get eliminated to see that one does
> not still make new PFC packages in the future.  The question is ... how
> many times have you efforted to be right or efforted to make another wrong
> or in fact did both dramatically and with a lot of effort/energy and
> conviction.  How many people go around doing this daily with every person
> they encounter and not know that they are doing this.  Maybe you are doing
> many of these just mentally too.
>
> A major part of Level 5 is not to just pull all of the old PFC's that are
> being held together with charge but to not make any new ones.  Don't get
> into games conditions and after a while don't even get into games without
> wholly realizing what you are doing and then deciding to do it just for the
> fun or the hell of it and casting that PFC or partial PFC off the road and
> into the ditch when you are done deciding to play that particular game any
> longer.
>
> Then there is the mind which we have all set up and continue to set up
> moment by moment as each of us makes the simple postulate ... next time and
> from now on I will always   or never . most of the time
> will now ___ when ... (the old bonding scenario that Dennis brings up)
>
> This is why I sign off, Level 5 in progress.  I have gotten off the easily
> available packages but certainly not every single one that exists for me.
>  I can't see that I have TimeBroken every single PFC that I have ever
> created across a time span of 76 Trillion years.  I'm sure that there are
> many many more that are subliminal and have very little charge after I put
> them together and they have remained that way if they never became of major
> concern or importance.  This is also why I went to Be, Do, Have to scrape
> as much off as I could, Lotta charge or just small charge to very little
> charge or

Re: [TROM1] Responsibility by Leonard Dunn. to Martin

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Paul,
The highlighted in violet section really shook the earth under my feet;
how true that is.  It allows one to decide to act or to not act also.  This
will work well of course to the degree that one is uptone/ethical.
Thanks much,
Aarre

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Paul Tipon  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Give Unto Caesar What is Caesar's and Unto God What is God's
>
> On Feb 4, 2013, at 5:33 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
> Intentional harm
>
>
> By way of contrast, if ones sets out with the intention of harming
> another then the backlash from this action will be in accordance with the
> Law of Cause and Effect, That Which One Sows, One Reaps. The actual truth
> is that one cannot harm another unless he has created the idea that he can
> be harmed. This of course, is his responsibility. It follows logically
> that one cannot be harmed unless one seeks to be so for the sake of
> experience which may be a non-survival way of balancing up one's past
> overts. That one is solely and totally responsible for everything that
> happens in one's life by virtue of one having created it, for whatever
> reason, is perhaps the most
> difficult aspect of responsibility to understand, accept and put
> into practice in one's life. It was this aspect that brought about my own
> present life case completion.
>
>
> The following is my take on making someone else guilty of an overt.  This
> action may have been like Martin states above, just a decision or making
> another guilty and wrong or it could have been both at different instances
> but they are both the same games condition of making another wrong, the
> blame game.
>
> This is a very critical concept and a juncture in the change of one's
> existence, well beyond any one life time just as Martin is saying.  Basic
> is the fact that the body can be harmed but not the spirit, the soul, the
> Thetan.  The basic true self, the spirit cannot be harmed and it is only
> taken upon one's self as such through using the body or whatever beingness
> or identity.  If the Thetan is to be harmed it is because the spirit/Thetan
> postulates that it is so about himself as a spirit.  A Thetan can only be
> trapped and harmed if he considers he is trapped and harmed and he will
> play the darndest games to prove to others and himself that it is so.
>  Stupidity also plays a big part.
>
> It all started when the first overt was made.  Ron mentions the very 1st
> and 2nd overt in the State of Man lectures.  At the level of Theta and
> strictly in the realm of the Theta universe, the first overt, if there
> truly ever was such a thing, to harm another, was when a Thetan made
> another Thetan guilty of an overt act.  The specific action here was one
> Thetan blaming another for harming him.  The stupidity comes into the
> picture when the accused Thetan considers he has harmed another as the
> other Thetan does a good job of pretending and demonstrating that he has
> been harmed by the guilty Thetan.  Not to difficult a performance for a
> Thetan even without a body, a beingness.  As this game went around, it
> probably got better and better and even the accusing Thetan began to
> believe, there just might be a way to harm a Thetan without his agreement.
>  After all, he had to continue to make the guilty party guilty, the ol' I'm
> right and you're wrong game.  Just more stupidity and game playing.  Who
> knows, possibly the accusing Thetan had a body or some identity at the time
> to really demonstrate being harmed.
>
> With this 1st overt, that of making another guilty of an overt act, one
> can now see how powerful and deadly this overt can be.  By making the most
> powerful guilty and showing that the MOST powerful could be harmed, the
> seed was planted that could and would make the most powerful of all in all
> universes succumb to being trapped and rendered down to nothing more than
> an inconsequential  grain of sand on a lonely uninhabited beach somewhere,
> anywhere in a far off forgotten corner of the physical universe.
>
> For one to now look back at all of this, one can easily see that the game
> of blame is this same insidious disabling,injuring and killing agent of
> oneself and others who were once totally immune to any and all harm of any
> nature.  The beginning of the downfall of Theta and Thetans.
>
> If you have gotten this far, I hope you can see that Level 4 is the key
> that opens the door to walking out of the trap and Level 5 is the walking
> out.  What must be accomplished on Level 4 is 'Freedom from Overwhelm'.
>  Without this Level 5 is only of minor benefit for you are not yet free
> from overwhelm.  I also want to point out that doing Level 4 to where one
> can no longer see any more charge to run off by TimeBreaking is not a point
> of completion without having ach

Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

This should have more correctly been sent to Glen, rather than Paul,
Thanks,  Aarre

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Aarre Peltomaa wrote:

> Hi Paul,
> Aarre
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:
>
>> *
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> 
>> Hi Glen,
>>
>> Very well put.  I couldn't agree more.
>>
>> Paul, Level 5 in progress
>>
>> On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal or
>>> reach enlightenment.  And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in a
>>> way that would work  the same way for every human being.  And that he
>>> expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily
>>> understandable way.  And that the editors did the best possible job of
>>> presenting this material.
>>>
>>> (All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written
>>> document.)
>>>
>>> You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always
>>> interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way.
>>> What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique
>>> understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them or
>>> doesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, it
>>> would be a mental straightjacket (IMHO).
>>>
>>> Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of
>>> interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or
>>> the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every
>>> Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their
>>> personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with
>>> some flexibility or wither.
>>
>>
>
>>   ' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago,  and also
>>> observed that;   I still think that the original document should be as
>>> close to original source as possible,  and then simpler (average guy)
>>> editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is stated
>>> bluntly in the beginning.   Then individuals could slightly adjust the data
>>> as you stated in their application.  This slight alteration insures the
>>> perpetuation of the work;  According to LRH,  to persist,  there must be a
>>> slight alteration.  A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically
>>> cause a vanishment.  The original document should be pristine however, so
>>> that wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical  application
>>> when needed and wanted.  Perhaps,  allowing a slight alteration in
>>> application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulate
>>> set quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long,
>>> long, time.'  Aarre Peltomaa
>>> p.s. does this sound correct at all ?
>>
>>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be
>>> the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people,
>>> especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do all
>>> the time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to be
>>> gobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way that
>>> is clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a big
>>> step forward.
>>>
>>> (And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testing
>>> to see how well they actually work for most people will perform the biggest
>>> service of all.)
>>>
>> __**_
>> Trom mailing list
>> Trom@lists.newciv.org
>> http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom>
>>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Paul,
Aarre

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Hi Glen,
>
> Very well put.  I couldn't agree more.
>
> Paul, Level 5 in progress
>
> On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
>>
>> Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal or
>> reach enlightenment.  And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in a
>> way that would work  the same way for every human being.  And that he
>> expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily
>> understandable way.  And that the editors did the best possible job of
>> presenting this material.
>>
>> (All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written
>> document.)
>>
>> You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always
>> interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way.
>> What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique
>> understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them or
>> doesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, it
>> would be a mental straightjacket (IMHO).
>>
>> Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of
>> interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or
>> the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every
>> Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their
>> personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with
>> some flexibility or wither.
>
>

>   ' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago,  and also
>> observed that;   I still think that the original document should be as
>> close to original source as possible,  and then simpler (average guy)
>> editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is stated
>> bluntly in the beginning.   Then individuals could slightly adjust the data
>> as you stated in their application.  This slight alteration insures the
>> perpetuation of the work;  According to LRH,  to persist,  there must be a
>> slight alteration.  A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically
>> cause a vanishment.  The original document should be pristine however, so
>> that wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical  application
>> when needed and wanted.  Perhaps,  allowing a slight alteration in
>> application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulate
>> set quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long,
>> long, time.'  Aarre Peltomaa
>> p.s. does this sound correct at all ?
>
>

>
>
>
>> So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be
>> the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people,
>> especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do all
>> the time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to be
>> gobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way that
>> is clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a big
>> step forward.
>>
>> (And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testing
>> to see how well they actually work for most people will perform the biggest
>> service of all.)
>>
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Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Aarre Peltomaa wrote:

> Hi Pete,
> I still think that a short editing note won't be that much distraction,
> and is worth it.  Or you could change the font each time you put in an
> inclusion.  With a reality factor in the beginning explaining the font
> change,  that wouldn't be too distracting.
> What do the others think about this ?
> Aarre Peltomaa
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Pete Mclaughlin <
> pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Aarre and Roberto
>>
>> All you need to do to see the changes is open up the kindle version in
>> one window and open up the old version in a second window and read them.
>>
>> Part of my purpose in doing the editing was to eliminate all the
>> distractions that the bad grammar imposed on the reader. It would be
>> counter productive to now add in the distractions of editing notes.
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Aarre Peltomaa 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Pete,
>> > I finally got Kindle working and downloaded the manual and your
>> additions to my desktop;  wonderful ! The fonts and bolded parts are
>> easy to read,  and large enough type size.  It is arranged very nicely.
>> The only thing that I can ask at cursory glance is that any additions that
>> you put in, such as the charts,  be marked as added by you,  and not in the
>> original manual.  This way a person will know what was written by Dennis,
>> and what was written by you.   This annotation should also apply to any
>> additional sections,  chapters, explanations, etc., that you have added.  I
>> think this is a very important point,  and I welcome input from other
>> TROMers about this.
>> > Thanks very much for this work,
>> > Aarre Peltomaa
>>
>
>
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[TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Pete,
I finally got Kindle working and downloaded the manual and your additions
to my desktop;  wonderful ! The fonts and bolded parts are easy to
read,  and large enough type size.  It is arranged very nicely.   The only
thing that I can ask at cursory glance is that any additions that you put
in, such as the charts,  be marked as added by you,  and not in the
original manual.  This way a person will know what was written by Dennis,
and what was written by you.   This annotation should also apply to any
additional sections,  chapters, explanations, etc., that you have added.  I
think this is a very important point,  and I welcome input from other
TROMers about this.
Thanks very much for this work,
Aarre Peltomaa
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Re: [TROM1] Kindle Version of TROM finished

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete,
Thanks much.  Correct paragraphing is excellent.  An index and table of
contents was on my wish list since my beginning with this tech.  I hope
that the charts are accurate.
I am unfortunately not computer literate;  how do I download a Kindle?  Do
I have to subscribe to Amazon.com ?
Thanks,
Aarre Peltomaa

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi TROMers
>   I spent a lot of time working on the Supplemental Lectures and got
> pretty wild editing them so they would be easy to read and understand.
>
> When they were  complete I decided to apply the same standards to the
> original TROM manual and address the problems of a non existent Table of
> Contents, no index of words and run on paragraphs.
>
> It appears that Greg Pickering did not know where to end a paragraph and
> ran several together on numerous occasions.
>
> I converted the word document to an HTML document needed to make a kindle
> book and began adding paragraph breaks at each change in the subject being
> presented.
>
> I next put chapter titles and sub chapter titles in the manual so the
> reader could see the Table of Contents as an outline of the book and easily
> find what they wanted to look at.
>
> Next I added a couple of graphics in the logic section and put several
> example Postulate Failure Charts in the text where Dennis mentions them by
> name. Eg. To Know, To Sex, Masculinity, Femininity and Sexual sensation etc.
>
> Since Kindle for the PC software has an excellent word look up function
> the reader can search for any word in the book and get a list of locations
> where the word appears to click on and jump to the text.  With this feature
> an index is not needed.
>
> So Now it is done and uploaded to the tromhelp.com/services webpage. This
> was done January 30, 2013 so if you have an earlier version of the Kindle
> TROM manual you will want to download the latest one.
>
> I hope all of you will download it and give it a read.   I guarantee you
> will be able to read and understand it much better than the versions which
> do not have the fix for those run on paragraphs.
>
>
> Sincerely
> Pete
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Cross Packaging

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Thanks much,  Paul
Aarre

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 3:05 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Hi Aarre and All,
>
> Aarre, you are correct as I see it in your assessment.
>
> As I said earlier, 'Wrong' can be interchanged with 'Cross' as Dennis is
> using the word cross, especially since we are not talking about
> complimentary words but about same and similar meanings and useage.  The
> semantics of these two words are similar and interchangeable.
>
> With respect to TROM, I see that you are right there too.  The words
> 'Love' and 'Lovable' are similar but have different meanings and use.  They
> are not therefore interchangeable.  They both have their own particular
> concept and when used in postulates, they will then have their own
> particular concept, meaning and postulate and these cannot be interchanged.
>
> On Jan 26, 2013, at 7:46 PM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
>  Pete,
>> The word 'exact' in 'exact oppositions'  is the keyword.  If the wording
>> is even slightly off,  it can't be complementary or opposing.
>>
>
> But in a simple or even a convoluted way it may be opposing.  The end of
> your statement would be better stated as complementary and opposing.  It is
> not an either or (A or B) but it is an A plus B.
>
>  To bear the same relationship,  the wording must correlate the same way.
>>
>> example...
>> 1.  must know   3.  must be known
>> 2.  must not know 4.  must not be known
>>
>> correct same relationship as the above
>> 1.  must love 3. must be loved
>> 2.  must not love   4. must not be loved
>>
>>altered wrong relationship to the above
>> 1. must love  3. must be lovable
>> 2. must not love4. must not be lovable
>>
>>  Changing the wording from loved to lovable puts two different
>> postulate sets (mismatched) into the same package, so that it is
>> cross-packaged and un-erasable.
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>  The word 'cross' means that the word lovable 'crossed' into this package
>> from some other package.   Loved,  not lovable is the correct word in this
>> package.  Must love and must be lovable are* NOT* complementary!   To be
>> willing to receive love and to powder one's face and wear a better dress to
>> be more lovable isn't the same thing at all;  what if she's making herself
>> lovable for another man and not even for yourself !  She may be making
>> herself more lovable for some ego crap and not willing to receive love at
>> all !   If you tell someone that you want an apple to eat and he say's,
>>  'here's a nice orange for you to eat',  he just invalidated what you asked
>> for, which was an apple.   I believe that salesman do that kind of bullshit
>> quite often.
>>
>
>  Dennis mentions the importance of exact wording in many places and I
>> don't have the time to find them all right now.
>>
>
> I can't pull up a reference either and in different terms, 'correct'
> wording must be used, not wording 'crossed' to or 'crossed' from whatever.
>  I don't believe it is any more complex than this.  Let's keep it simple,
> we don't have to pull in other additional and obscure significances to make
> a truth.
>
>>
>> Can anyone else comment upon this ?
>>
>> Aarre Peltomaa
>>
>
> Paul, Level 5 in progress
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Re: [TROM1] RE Cross-Packaging

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete,
Thanks much for the charts;  do you have any more stuff that I've never
seen before ?
Perhaps I haven't been through the A-Z of the TROM site yet.  I'm still
taking it all in.
Thanks,   Aarre

On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
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> 
>
> Hi Colleen and thanks
>
> a Junior Goals Package is set up on the postulate failure chart just like
> the to know postulate chart but subsitiuting to sex or whatever junior goal
> you want for to know. the Junior Goals are verbs or action words or
> doingnesses.
>
> see the attached files
>
>
> The Junior Universes are very different. these are nouns which is to say
> objects which have an existence like a cat or a brick so they are added
> to the to know goals package to be erased from the mind as an object or an
> existence.
>
> see the attached file for a dress
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Colleen K. Peltomaa 
> *To:* Pete McLaughlin 
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:59 PM
> *Subject:* RE Cross-Packaging
>
> Hi, Pete, I was trying to stay out of the discussion about
> cross-packaging, but Aarre kept talking about it, so I pulled all
> references to cross-packaging from the Manual and put them into one
> document.
>
>
> One MU I got cleared up for myself is that it does seem that Dennis does
> use junior packages and junior universes to mean the same thing in some
> places.
>
> I also see that if someone thinks male and female are opposing goals then
> he might as well be cross-packaging, however I can't get into the algebra
> of it at this time, just a hunch.
>
> love,
> colleen
>
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Cross Packaging

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete,
The word 'exact' in 'exact oppositions'  is the keyword.  If the wording is
even slightly off,  it can't be complementary or opposing.   To bear the
same relationship,  the wording must correlate the same way.

example...
1.  must know   3.  must be known
2.  must not know 4.  must not be known

correct same relationship as the above
1.  must love 3. must be loved
2.  must not love   4. must not be loved

   altered wrong relationship to the above
1. must love  3. must be lovable
2. must not love4. must not be lovable

 Changing the wording from loved to lovable puts two different
postulate sets (mismatched)  into the same package,  so that it is
cross-packaged and unerasable.
The word 'cross' means that the word lovable 'crossed' into this package
from some other package.   Loved,  not lovable is the correct word in this
package.  Must love, and must be lovable are* NOT* complementary!   To be
willing to receive love,  and to powder one's face, and wear a better dress
to be more lovable isn't the same thing at all;  what if she's making
herself lovable for another man, and not even for yourself !  She may be
making herself more lovable for some ego crap,  and not willing to receive
love at all !   If you tell someone that you want an apple to eat,  and he
say's,  'here's a nice orange for you to eat',  he just invalidated what
you asked for, which was an apple.   I believe that salesman do that kind
of bullshit quite often.
Dennis mentions the importance of exact wording in many places, and I don't
have the time to find them all right now.

Can anyone else comment upon this ?

Aarre Peltomaa

On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Aarre
> Here is where Dennis states that the postulates must be as in the basic
> package.
>
> Sincerely
> Pete
>
> Cross-packaging
> When a junior package is not erasing cleanly the most common fault is that
> the package is not a true package. This is known as cross-packaging. It is
> one of the ‘deadly’ sins.
>
> When two or more junior packages are crossed up into one package neither
> of the packages will erase, and the whole mish-mash just grinds on forever.
>
> The therapist who tries to resolve a man’s drinking problem by addressing
> his infantile sex life is guilty of cross-packaging. This is why the
> ‘therapy’ goes on forever with no relief for the patient.
>
> Indeed, the basic way to confuse a being is to cross-package him. Much
> thought has been given to this gentle art in the history of the universe,
> and the most confusing things that have ever happened to beings have been
> overt attempts to cross-package them - all under the guise of ‘education’,
> of course.
>
> Once cross-packaged the being is stuck within the crossed-up packages
> forever. Cross-packaging is the primary method of enslaving spiritual
> beings that has been used in the universe. It is infinitely more effective
> than the use of rubber truncheons.
>
> So make sure that the legs of your junior packages bear exactly the same
> relation to each other as do the legs of the basic package. Only then will
> they erase.
> Check that the complementary postulates are indeed complementary, and that
> the opposing postulates are exact oppositions. This can only be done
> empirically, on the basis of cold, hard logic. To do it any other way is to
> court disaster.
>
> Dennis Stephens. The Resolution of Mind (Kindle Locations 884-886).
> tromhelp.com.
>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Aarre Peltomaa 
> *To:* Pete Mclaughlin 
> *Sent:* Friday, January 25, 2013 10:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [TROM1] Cross Packaging? again
>
> Pete,
> I had them numbered incorrectly;  my mistake.   If 1 is must know,  and 2
> is must not know,  and 3 is must be known,  and 4 is must not be known,
> then one will create sensation with 1 and 4,  or 2 and 3.   Could you show
> me where Dennis states that cross-packaging is defined by whether or not
> the postulates are complementary or opposing?  I need to see that reference.
> Aarre
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Games Matrix and cross packaging

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete,
According to the definition that Dennis gave us,  these are not crossed
because of complementary or opposing postulates,  but because there are two
different sets of postulates here.  It's like mixing apples and oranges.
That's why it's crossed-packaged.   The only way that it could be not
cross-packaged is to have 4 matched postulates in one set,  like 4 matching
tires on a car.   To put 2 winter tires and 2 summer tires on a car is
cross-packaging.  Of course a properly formed set of 4 matching postulates
contains both complementary and opposing postulates within the same set.
But to say 'I want to eat an apple',  and 'an orange wants to be eaten' is
not a matched set;  how could this be complementary,  if an orange wants to
be eaten, instead of the apple that you asked for.  To say 'I want to eat
an apple',  and 'an apple wants to be eaten' would be a complementary pair.
To say 'I want to eat an apple',  and 'an apple doesn't want to be eaten'
would be opposing postulates within the same matching 4 postulate set.
All of the sets that you gave are mismatched, and therefore
cross-packaged.  Opposing or complementary is not part of the definition of
cross-packaged;  the same subject matter or not is part of the
definition.   Apples with apples,  and oranges with oranges.
A spiritual being that is being only male or female is cross-packaged
because that being only has 2 out of 4 postulates,  which isn't a full
set.  A spiritual being may have had a male body in one lifetime,  and a
female body in another lifetime,  so therefore the being has to have all 4
postulates to function properly,  and understand the other sex's viewpoint.
Thanks,  Aarre

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> OK Aarre
> Here are your examples plugged into the games matrix. they show that if 1.
> and 3 are not complementary postulates that the package is crossed.
>
> Keep on TROMing
> Pete
>
>
> I have to have sex with him so that he'll marry me.
>
> 1. to be married   3. must be sexed
> 2. to not be marred  4. to not be sexed
>
> I have to show my virility by giving her a good session in bed.
>
> 1. masculinity  3. satisfied girl
> 2. no masculinity  4. unsatisfied girl
>
> I'll look prettier to others if I wear this sexy dress.
>
> 1. sexy  3. wear dress
> 2. not sexy   4. not wear dress
>
>
> I can't wear those orange pants, because they're such a 'gay' colour !
>
> 1. homosexuality  3. gay colour
> 2. not homosexual  4. no gay colour
>
> I'll be the life of the party if I tell them how often 'I scored'.
>
> 1. popular  3. had sex
> 2. not popular  4. not had sex
>
> I can't have sex with him in the first two dates,  or he'll think that I'm
> a whore.
>
> 1. sex too soon  3. whore
> 2. not sex to soon  4. not whore
>
> To sex  vs.  To be sexy.  (definitely a cross packaging).
>
> 1. to sex   3. to be sexy
> 2. to not sex  4. to not be sexy
>
>
> To sex and to be sexed   vs.   to sensually stimulate and to be sensually
> stimulated.
>
> 1. to sex  3. to sensually stimulate
> 2. to not sex  4. to not sensually stimulate
>
> 1. to be sexed  3. to be sensually stimulated
> 2. to not be sexed  4. to not be sensually stimulated
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Cross Packaging? again

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete,
p.s.It is the lack of all 4 postulates that is the cross-package,  and
nothing else.  Having only 2 postulates out of 4 is the cross-package,  as
we need all 4 to be sane.
Aarre

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Paul and Svoboda
> Thanks for the responces. They got my brain working again.
>
> Here is what i have come up with so far.
>
> the normal to sex goals package has male and female complementing each
> other.
>
> 1. must sex3. must be sexed
>
>
> by making females and males opponents in a game we move the female
> postulate to the opponents position and the negative female postulate to
> the complementary position.
>
> 1. must sex3 must not be sexed
>
> 2. must not sex   4 must be sexed
>
> This is by definition a cross package as 1 and 3 are not exactly
> complementary.
>
> Does this look like a correct interpretation of Dennis' statement that:
>
>  "As a male, he soon starts to get opposed to females, and vice-versa.
> Very soon he is in a terrible state on the subject, for the two genders are
> not intrinsically in opposition to each other.
>
>  You end up with a classic case of cross-packaging. We find the male
> desperately asserting his masculinity, while heavily suppressing any
> feminine characteristics in his personality, and vice-versa for the female.
> The whole subject soon takes on the quality of a nightmare, and becomes one
> big unsolvable problem. And it stays this way until the being regains his
> full freedom of choice to occupy, at will, any one of the four classes
> available to him on the subject."
>
> IF so then on any goals in life if you make what should be a complementary
> postulate into the opposition postulate in a game you are cross packaging.
>
>
>
> Keep on TROMing
> Pete
>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Paul Tipon 
> *To:* trom@lists.newciv.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:19 AM
> *Subject:* [TROM1] Cross Packaging? again
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Hi Pete,
>
> After reading further, I see that I may have muddied the waters a little
> more.  With the following definition here is what I see.
>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 11:44 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
> > OK
> > Here's the definition of cross packaging. it doesn't apply so Dennis
> misspoke in the TROM manual.
> >
> >
> > Cross-packaging
> > When a junior package is not erasing cleanly the most common fault is
> that the package is not a true package.  This is known as
> > cross-packaging.  It is one of the 'deadly' sins.  When two or more
> junior packages are crossed up into one package neither of the packages
> will erase and the whole mish-mash just grinds on forever.  The therapist
> who tries to resolve a man's drinking problem by addressing his infantile
> sex life is guilty of cross-packaging.  This is why the 'therapy' goes on
> forever with no relief for the patient.
>
> The packages are not the little differences that exist between the sexes,
> male to female or female to male but the fact that male is different than
> female and vice versa.  So it is not the differences that exist between a
> male and a female but the simple fact that male is different than female
> and female different than male.  To heck with all the differences thereby
> derived, it is that male is not female and female is not male.
>
> With two separate things which are not the duplicate of the other, there
> will always be a difference.  To then go into all the differences that one
> can spot between the two sexes will not address the basic.  So one can
> process out all of the differences that they can find between sexes and
> totally miss the basic.  The basic is that one sex is not the other.
>
> So if one then processes on those differences between two items, one may
> miss the fact that there is an opposition and games condition because there
> are two different things, not that there are two or more differences in
> sexual characteristics.  Basically not being able to see the forest for the
> trees.  Processing out all the different trees and all of their differences
> between each other will not process out the opposition terminal of the
> forest.  Just process on 'the forest'.  As in Dennis' sample, process
> alcohol not "infantile sex life".  A person may give you or you yourself
> may give yourself housekeeping as the opposition subject when it is really
> male vs female or female vs male and nothing more non-esoteric than that.
>
> I believe Dennis calls this 'Cross-Packaging' as all crossed or mixed up
> and not addressing the correct item.
>
> Paul, Level 5 in progress
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Re: [TROM1] Cross Packaging? again

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete,

Where did you get that the sequence of the chart with 1 and 3 on the left
side and 2 and 4 on the right side has to be changed (rotated) in order to
get opposition.  To get opposition, one only has to go diagonally across
the chart,  and thus get sensation.
To get sensation, including sexual sensation,  one would have diagonal
flows of 1 and 4,  or 3 and 2.  They have to do a dance
(reciprocation/vacillation)  between 1 and 4 and 3 and 2 to have orgasm.
Dennis stated that one should be able to do and be on all 4 postulates,
and that 'being only male',  or 'being only female' is cross packaging,
because the thetan is neither male nor female.  To state that a thetan is
male or female is an invalidation to the thetan,  as he is neither.

Aarre

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Paul and Svoboda
> Thanks for the responces. They got my brain working again.
>
> Here is what i have come up with so far.
>
> the normal to sex goals package has male and female complementing each
> other.
>
> 1. must sex3. must be sexed
>
>
> by making females and males opponents in a game we move the female
> postulate to the opponents position and the negative female postulate to
> the complementary position.
>
> 1. must sex3 must not be sexed
>
> 2. must not sex   4 must be sexed
>
> This is by definition a cross package as 1 and 3 are not exactly
> complementary.
>
> Does this look like a correct interpretation of Dennis' statement that:
>
>  "As a male, he soon starts to get opposed to females, and vice-versa.
> Very soon he is in a terrible state on the subject, for the two genders are
> not intrinsically in opposition to each other.
>
>  You end up with a classic case of cross-packaging. We find the male
> desperately asserting his masculinity, while heavily suppressing any
> feminine characteristics in his personality, and vice-versa for the female.
> The whole subject soon takes on the quality of a nightmare, and becomes one
> big unsolvable problem. And it stays this way until the being regains his
> full freedom of choice to occupy, at will, any one of the four classes
> available to him on the subject."
>
> IF so then on any goals in life if you make what should be a complementary
> postulate into the opposition postulate in a game you are cross packaging.
>
>
>
> Keep on TROMing
> Pete
>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Paul Tipon 
> *To:* trom@lists.newciv.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:19 AM
> *Subject:* [TROM1] Cross Packaging? again
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Hi Pete,
>
> After reading further, I see that I may have muddied the waters a little
> more.  With the following definition here is what I see.
>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 11:44 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
> > OK
> > Here's the definition of cross packaging. it doesn't apply so Dennis
> misspoke in the TROM manual.
> >
> >
> > Cross-packaging
> > When a junior package is not erasing cleanly the most common fault is
> that the package is not a true package.  This is known as
> > cross-packaging.  It is one of the 'deadly' sins.  When two or more
> junior packages are crossed up into one package neither of the packages
> will erase and the whole mish-mash just grinds on forever.  The therapist
> who tries to resolve a man's drinking problem by addressing his infantile
> sex life is guilty of cross-packaging.  This is why the 'therapy' goes on
> forever with no relief for the patient.
>
> The packages are not the little differences that exist between the sexes,
> male to female or female to male but the fact that male is different than
> female and vice versa.  So it is not the differences that exist between a
> male and a female but the simple fact that male is different than female
> and female different than male.  To heck with all the differences thereby
> derived, it is that male is not female and female is not male.
>
> With two separate things which are not the duplicate of the other, there
> will always be a difference.  To then go into all the differences that one
> can spot between the two sexes will not address the basic.  So one can
> process out all of the differences that they can find between sexes and
> totally miss the basic.  The basic is that one sex is not the other.
>
> So if one then processes on those differences between two items, one may
> miss the fact that there is an opposition and games condition because there
> are two different things, not that there are two or more differences in
> sexual characteristics.  Basically not being able to see the forest for the
> trees.  Processing out all the different trees and all of their differences
> between each oth

Re: [TROM1] Cross Packaging? again

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete,
You must have an MU (MisUnderstood Word) on 'cross packaging',  as all the
4 goals that you listed are in the same package, regardless how they are
arranged.
Slight alterations of wordings,  as a covertly hostile person would be
happy to do,  would lead to cross packaging.

Here is the definition's first mention in the manual...

' The legs of a junior package must bear the same relation to each other as
do the legs of the basic package. Otherwise the package is not a true
package and will never erase. E.G. The complementary goal of ‘To free’ is
‘To be free’ not ‘To be freed’. Some care is always required in formulating
the exact wording of junior packages. When a junior package is not erasing
cleanly the most common fault is that the package is not a true package.
This is known as* cross-packaging*. It is one of the ‘deadly’ sins. When
two or more junior packages are crossed up into one package neither of the
packages will erase, and the whole mish-mash just grinds on forever. The
therapist who tries to resolve a man’s drinking problem by addressing his
infantile sex life is guilty of cross- packaging. This is why the ‘therapy’
goes on forever with no relief for the patient. Indeed, the basic way to
confuse a being is to cross-package him. Much thought has been given to
this gentle art in the history of the universe, and the most confusing
things that have ever happened to beings have been overt attempts to
cross-package them - all under the guise of ‘education’, of course. Once
cross-packaged the being is stuck within the crossed-up packages forever.
Cross-packaging is the primary method of enslaving spiritual beings that
has been used in the universe. It is infinitely more effective than the use
of rubber truncheons. So make sure that the legs of your junior packages
bear exactly the same relation to each other

page 85

as do the legs of the basic package. Only then will they erase.
Check that the complementary postulates are indeed complementary, and that
the opposing postulates are exact oppositions. This can only be done
empirically, on the basis of cold, hard logic. To do it any other way is to
court disaster. One may have a strong ‘gut feeling’ that the goal ‘To eat’
is opposed by the goal ‘To not be edible’, however logic tells us that the
correct opposition is ‘To not be eaten’. The difference between the package
cleanly erasing and grinding on forever is to be found within such* fine
shades of meaning*. Nowhere in life do you have to be more precise than in
this area of composing junior goals packages. '

That's it right from the 'ol man' himself.   If he didn't give examples of
cross-packaging when he discussed the sex package,  then we have to come up
with and extrapolate our own examples from conjecture,  logic,  and
experience.

Here's some possible examples...

I have to have sex with him so that he'll marry me.
I have to show my virility by giving her a good session in bed.
I'll look prettier to others if I wear this sexy dress.
I can't wear those orange pants, because they're such a 'gay' colour !
I'll be the life of the party if I tell them how often 'I scored'.
I can't have sex with him in the first two dates,  or he'll think that I'm
a whore.
To sex  vs.  To be sexy.  (definitely a cross packaging).
To sex and to be sexed   vs.   to sensually stimulate and to be sensually
stimulated.

None of the above is just  'sex',  but rather other
postulates/goals/purposes/intentions
mixed in to muddy up the water and complicate things.

Now I understand the man;   eg.  If you are addressing 'welding steel',
you aren't addressing 'screwing nuts onto bolts'.  They are two different
actions, and not the same enough to be called one package.

Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> HI
> Another thought on Cross-Packaging in life. It only occurs? when you are
> stuck in a compulsive game.
>
> for instance with "to eat"
>
> When you see a donut that screams "must be eaten" and you are in a
> voluntary or no games condition you can  pick whether you adopt  the "must
> eat" or "must not eat" postulate but if you are compulsively in the "must
> eat" and have eating problems and see a donut you make the "must be eaten"
> postulate your enemy and get the cross packaged goal:
>
> 1. must eat 3. must not be eaten
>
> 2. must not eat   4. must be eaten
>
> Where 2 is not available because of your previous decision that you "must
> eat" and 4 is yo

Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 102, Issue 16

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Pete,
Vladimir's posting triggered more of my recall of the Sex Goals Package 28
May '93
lecture.   With the apes,  sex has at least three packages;  sex itself for
procreation,  sex to avoid being killed by larger male apes,  and forcing
social cohesion under the dominant male.   Three different packages;  only
one of them actually has to do with joining male and female genes to create
offspring.
Did this score a better answer than my last one ?
Aarre Peltomaa

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Svoboda Vladimir wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> I want to cry as a woman, but I drink as a man because nobody loves me:-)
>  Three pacages and it's difficult not to cross them.
> I start with drinking, and see ''to cry'' ( freely to show feelings) and
> see more actual purpose ''to love''.
> Each pacage is erased separately even if other purpose is visible. I write
> out them in separete notes. It is not necessary to jump  from a pacage in
> other pacage. Must to drink, must to be cried, must not to be loved, must
> to be loved? To feel or not to feel,may be? Bzzz bz ... dirty
> needle... stuck.
> If a man overvhelm his female part  and sets altereted purposes. He has a
> problem with it and trying to solve it, pursues not that aim. The first
>  life goal is true.
> ___
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Re: [TROM1] Cross Packaging?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Paul and Pete,
Because of this enquiry,  I re-listened to the lecture #26;  Sex Goals
Package 28 May '93.   Apparently,  a thetan wouldn't have these
cross-packagings if not for the body.  The body has it's sex postulates,
and so does the thetan.
The Male Body has a male sexual ionization in his penis of 'to sex', and
also a usually lesser female sexual ionization in his rear end/anus of 'to
be sexed'.   The female has a female sexual ionization of 'to be sexed' in
her rear quarters,  anus,  vulva, and vagina,   and also a usually lesser
male sexual ionization of 'to sex' in her pseudo penis known as the
clitoris in her front.
This can trigger homosexuality in the male if the back end ionization is
turned on too strongly,  and lesbianism in the female if the front end
ionization is turned on too strongly.
The body postulates are what confuses the thetan, and not the thetan's
postulates.
Does this help ?  I just gleaned this out of the lecture.
Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:20 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Hi Pete,
>
> Let's see what I can do to further illuminate this situation.
>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 11:44 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
>  Hi all
>>
>
>  In the TROM manual Dennis states the following:
>>
>> "As a male, he soon starts to get opposed to females, and vice-versa.
>> Very soon he is in a terrible state on the subject, for the two genders are
>> not intrinsically in opposition to each other. 
>>
>> You end up with a classic case of cross-packaging. We find the male
>> desperately asserting his masculinity, while heavily suppressing any
>> feminine characteristics in his personality, and vice-versa for the female.
>> The whole subject soon takes on the quality of a nightmare, and becomes one
>> big unsolvable problem. And it stays this way until the being regains his
>> full freedom of choice to occupy, at will, any one of the four classes
>> available to him on the subject".?
>>
>> I am confused by the first sentence in the second paragraph. How is this
>> a classic case of Cross-Packaging??  it is a classic case of compulsive
>> games play but I don't see how it is cross packaging.
>>
>>  What I get out of the label of Cross-Packaging is that a male and then
> too a female, may both have a games condition with the other/opposite sex.
>  Each would have one to several games conditions towards the opposite sex,
> a games condition for several aspects of the opposite sex.  In other words
> a games condition concerning the way the opposite sex talks, the way they
> act, the way they dress, the things they like or dislike, the way they act
> or react to the opposite sex, what is important and not important.  I would
> then say that between two opposite sex persons, they may both have these
> types of opposed ways of looking at the other and when you have two
> opposite sexes where each has their own personal opposed games conditions
> towards the other, simply because the other is the opposite sex then one
> viewing this set-up between the two will see a 'Cross-Packaging'.
>
> That's what I get out of the characterization.
>
>  Anyone have an idea?
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Pete
>>
>
> Paul, Level 5 in progress
> __**_
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Re: [TROM1] I Created a Private Facebook Group

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Colleen,
Very well done !
Aarre

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Colleen K. Peltomaa
wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hello All,
>
> If you desire more real time personal interaction and discussion re
> your TROM practices you are welcome to be in the private Facebook
> group I created for such purposes.
>
> I know of no other such group on Facebook.
>
> I have personally been very encouraged by close association with
> TROMers at all levels of proficiency.  For example, Aarre is now, after
> running Level 4, To Enhance, he is now reaching hard for Level 3,
> and so much more enjoying it than he was before he ran To Enhance.
> I am so inspired by his development and self-discipline that I
> am re-treading Level 2 as indicated.
>
> While we cannot run the processes for another, we can provide
> presence and encouragement and correction.
>
> best fo all,
> colleen
>
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Introduction and Update

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Will,
I think that this is excellent,  as long as we know that this is for
new people to get started.
This is sorely needed;  there should be a stipulation at the end of
the book that the reader should read the source reference when they
are bolstered enough to do so.  Perhaps for that reason,  you should
make this just for Level 1 - 3 ?  I'm sure at the end of level 3,
they would be strong enough to read the original from Dennis,  and
also listen to the lectures.   Also,  I advise that a note be put into
the front of the book, as are in all Scientology books,  to look up
the meanings of any words that are not understood,  in a good
dictionary, or glossary.  I did the Student Hat (studenting and
literacy training course) twice (2 editions of it),  and I'm very
certain that this is a keynote of fluency, and especially of the
ability to apply the materials.
Any input about this from the group ?

Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada


On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:06 PM, TJ Roberts  wrote:
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> My name is Will, and I have actually been around TROM for a while - just 
> didn't register for the list until recently, and always observed the list and 
> didn't add anything to itdidn't feel I had anything to add.
>
> What I did realise a long time ago, though, was the power of this tech. I 
> have been systematically going through it exactly as Dennis described in the 
> manual; to the extent that I haven't used any amendments that people have 
> added in; I tried them (for example, expanded level 4 lists), but didn't get 
> anything nearly as powerful as from the material as described.
>
> I have had some major wins on the levels, and am chipping away at level 5.
>
> I know that people have been determined, rightly, for this tech to be 
> presented in a public-friendly way, as, frankly, everyone needs this tech. If 
> people only had levels 1-3 available and completely understandable, you would 
> have people essentially functioning as clears!
>
> So, I have it (almost) completed; a completely re-written TROM manual for 
> your 'average joe'. I've given it to several friends to try out and they are 
> loving it.
>
> I've even paid for, and am currently drilling, TRs and Objectives (much as 
> CoS freaks me out) to fully understand level 1.
>
> I haven't finished the level 5 write-up as I'm not far enough in to write it 
> from a place of KNOWING.
>
> The reason for this is that I started working a while ago on a book of 
> everything I know about productivity and action and applicable tech that can 
> help people actually get things done. But I realised that the TROM tech would 
> have to be included simply because the past plays such a huge role in 
> limiting the present. Whether I would include the whole thing or (at first) 
> just up to level 3 to start to lessen the past's influence, I don't know yet.
>
> Of course, what I have written will be made freely available to the TROM list 
> as I know you guys want it. The info that I put in the book is something I 
> would market and sell, just because there is so much other stuff in it.
>
> You guys get my re-write of TROM for free (as soon as I finish it up) to give 
> to everyone you know, and if you have any suggestions, please let me know. I 
> want to make this more accessible and more available.
>
> Just a heads up. I will post the new book to the list as soon as I get it 
> available.
>
> Just wanted to introduce myself and give you all some notice; hope it 
> brightens someone's day!
>
> I've been working on it as diligently as I can; I don't know any simpler way 
> I could present it, but that's for you experts to decide.
>
> Take care,
>
> Keep TROMMING,
>
> Will
>
>
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[TROM1] Fwd:

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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http://dazeroinsu2.altervista.org/qniusya.php
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Re: [TROM1] RE RI @ Aarre

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Colleen,
I love you so.
Aarre
p.s.  no run for me until the patroller gets back with his orders.

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Colleen K. Peltomaa
 wrote:
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hey, Aarre, yes, it is still off my radar to go into that much detail re 
> mest.  Okay, I am going to re-listen to Dennis' "IP" lectures, thanks  :-)
>
> colleen
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Notes RE RI

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Colleen,
Thanks very much;  Don't forget to listen to that IP lecture on TIPM again.
We can create MEST by putting up the 4 postulates in equilibrium of
complementary and opposing,  but that sounds like a hard go at this
gradient,  doesn't it.  That seems like too much quality and not
enough quantity in my opinion.  Isn't it way too much work  at our
level ?
Aarre

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Colleen K. Peltomaa
 wrote:
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> I was listening to a talk by Lester Levenson re "Will", and looking at a 
> cooking pot in the kitchen and realized that I am creating it -- 
> unconsciously, on an automaticity, and that made a shift for me in my RI'ing, 
> and brought to mind that Dennis said quantity is more important than quality.
>
> Oh, also, just realized I had dropped having others create things too  :-)
>
> cheers!
> colleen
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Level 3 Timebreaking, but focused on body

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Colleen,
So much appreciation;   I'll try it in the morning before going to the
finicky Chinese customer.   I'm eager to give it a go.
Love you always,  precious girl,
Aarre

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Colleen K. Peltomaa
wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Am reading E. Tolle's book, "The New Earth", and he speaks of the
> "Pain-Body" and energy fields around the body and, at the same time,
> instructs one to practice quieting the mind by focusing on the body's
> "energy fields".
>
> I have done this and I timebreak the somatics and energies as I am aware
> of them.  Dennis also mentioned the importance of dis-identification with
> the body, letting go of fixed identification with the body, and of course
> the route is increased awareness of what the body is really composed of.
> For example, during one session I briefly realized the body is nothing but
> energies, or energy fields, and almost felt it could "dissolve" right then
> and there, but, no, it is still here  :-)  Okay, so postulates hold all
> that together.
>
> However, I can see how doing this is an approach to reduce fixed
> identification with oneself as a body.  I've been doing this in the morning
> before my "Brainy-Mind" kicks in and demands all the attention, lol.
> Clearing work is becoming more 'fun' and more of an adventurous attitude is
> developing.
>
> Try it and let me know what it does for you, thank you.
>
> colleen
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Leve 4 "to enhance" @ xriz again

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Paul,
Thanks much.  A good orientation.
Aarre Peltomaa

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> This is a back channel post to another TROMmer about OT3.  I will be
> posting more too.
>
> On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:00 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:
>
>>
>> I see your point and understand that well.
>> Can you tell me back channel what the false informations are ? Would be
>> great though if it can be said openly on the list here.
>> I certainly want to get rid of false philosophies i swallowed unwittingly.
>>
>> thanks
>> xriz
>>
>
> One has to realize that not everyone suffered from the engram of OT3.
>  Depending on one's participation or non-participation is one factor.
>  Whether or not one was one of those trapped and sent to Earth and is still
> being a body Thetan or has since moved up the Thetan ladder is another
> factor.  Then there are the ones not trapped at all who only observed or
> ran the trapping.  LRH did nothing to sort out what should be run in
> accordance with one's involvement.  Some were not even near the incident
> and had no news or any data on it at all.
>
> I have some consideration that Level 4 runs out OT3.  When you get the
> cognition of 'Freedom from Overwhelm', you will know what I mean.  In the
> mean time, Level 4 is heavily into overts and motivators.  Ego is also on
> that line.  Making others wrong and self right is an ego thang.  The
> justification line that everyone puts out is also an ego thang.  One doing
> a motivator is both an ego thang and a justification thang.  And of course
> a motivator leads to new justified overts.
>
> These are all actions that have nothing to do with games but of course get
> used and put into the playing of games.  The biggest factor that keeps any
> aberration in is avoidance which is a withhold phenomena which is an
> overt/motivator package product.  It is important to handle overts and
> motivators as it is to handle one's case of engrams.  The two do not mix
> but they sure get heaped onto the pile with each other and mixed and
> blended up into a really ugly smoothie.
>
> This is why I really stress Level 4 and I effort to get others to see how
> really big a Level it is.  It is the biggest.  It will provide the most
> gains.  It has the capacity to solve all of one's case, both engramic and
> withhold wise.
>
> There is also the obvious result from Level 4 of handling GPMS.  They just
> kind of disappear because they are largely de-stimulated but not erased
> completely.  As a minimum, the overts and motivators attached to GPMs
> greatly reduce and if done thoroughly, all can be as-ised.  These overts
> and motivators that are directly connected to GPMs are the major portion of
> the charge that GPMs have.  I believe anything left over can get handled in
> Level 5 where the unknownness to knownness can handle the silly, moronic
> packages that are the terminals vs. opterms can get as-ised by truth and
> knownness.
>
> Paul/Level 5 in progress
>
>
> __**_
> Trom mailing list
> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom>
>
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Re: [TROM1] From the Pilot's writings

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Hi Paul,
Good show.   I love the freedom of choice that these procedures allow;
it's like being at a buffet,   and just doing what it takes to get the
maximum case change.
Thanks,  Aarre Peltomaa

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 3:10 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Sunday night I started reading Super Scio from the Pilot.  I find it very
> very good reading and intend to post pertinent portions here for TROMmers.
>  Here is one great one on self auditing.  The following can be found on
> page 125.
>
> *"But there is a self auditable technique for running engrams.  It
> consists of alternately spotting something in the incident and something in
> the room.  This can actually let you recover the unconscious period of an
> operation and bring up the words being spoken and everything.  You just
> need to persist with it long enough.  We still have the problem of
> accessibility.  Some cases are just not up to running engrams.  But if they
> are, this trick will work almost as well as the modern Dianetic R3R
> procedure, with the difference being that it is slower but does not require
> an auditor or an E-meter.*
> *
> *
> *It is almost criminal not to have a technique like this and teach it to
> people as soon as they are up to running engrams.  What if the person
> should die?  This is one of the few ways that they could run out the death
> experience successfully.*
> *
> *
> *Furthermore, this one works for Dianetic clears without the liabilities
> of running R3R (which can get the NOTs aspects of the case all stirred up
> if too much of it is done after clear).*
> *
> *
> *The technique would be to "Spot an incident underlying (condition)" and
> then alternately spot something in the incident and something in the room
> until something happens.  Then spot another incident  underlying ... etc.
> until the condition is handled.  In general, you should not ask for an
> "Earlier Similar" incident when doing this on a clear because the "engram
> chain" mechanism is not fully operative after someone goes clear.  A looser
> question allows for an earlier similar to be run if one is there but
> doesn't force it. This is actually more of a high powered recall process
> rather than true Dianetic picture running."*
> *
> *
> *Paul/Level 5 in progress*
>
> ___
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> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] [IVy-subs-1] Pilot'sPosts Z21 -- Co-existence of Static

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hello TROM'ers,

What if someone like Joseph Stalin thinks that millions of people have to
be killed;   if he liked lime-green skies with polkadots,  are we supposed
to allow him so because that's his reality, even if it includes murdering
millions?
Something doesn't sit right in this scenario with me somehow;  omitted data
big time.  I liked LRH's definition of ethics as optimum survival behavior
on 8 dynamics.   This works until someone stops another from having a good
life,  and then this premise seems to break down.  Do we have to let a
gunman shoot people in a school,  because that's his prerogative?  A mass
murderer just has a different reality,  a different radio channel so to
speak,  doesn't he?  'He can ask for Bill's agreement on something, but he
can't force it.'  Huh?  Don't we have to shut down the mass murderer's
'radio channel' against his wishes  (force it)?

Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:04 AM, Pete Mclaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>  Hi Ant
> Would you post this to TROM? This is excellent material.
>
> Sincerely
> Pete
>
>
>
> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Ant Phillips < ant.phill...@post8.tele.dk>
> relayed:
>
>
> *Pilot'sPosts Z21
>
> *
> *Co-existence of Static *
>
> From Post 53 -- April 1999
>
>
> We are not here to dissolve everything into nothingness.
>
> The true Nirvana is a creative state rather than a passive one.
>
> At basic we are balancing the nothingness with a richness of creation.
>
> Having everything locked down into a single agreed upon reality inhibits
> free creation and therefore reduces the richness. It is therefore abhorrent
> to a being and as he rises upscale, he objects to it more rather than less.
>
> But what is wrong is not the creations themselves but the locked down
> singleness of the realities available.
>
> There could be many realities, some shared, some overlapping, some
> independent, and all visited by choice.
>
> Imagine an Internet with many websites. There is communication and
> interaction, and yet each is free to create as he chooses, and if he really
> likes someone else's creation, perhaps he copies it and if he dislikes it,
> perhaps he shuns it, but there is room for anything and everything.
>
> And then one day there is a virus, and everybody's system is permanently
> locked onto the same site. Of course they will fight amongst each other
> because each one's creations affects the others. There can be no true
> freedom because freedom will be at odds with responsibility.
>
> Consider what would happen if everyone became a god. One person would wish
> for rain and another would wish for sunshine. It just doesn't work if all
> are locked into a single reality.
>
> And yet it is also a failure for each of us to go off into a totally
> isolated personal universe, for then we loose the communication and
> interaction that are so desirable to us all.
>
> What should happen is a fanning out of multiple realities.
>
> When some want rain and some want sunlight, then each occurs and the
> multitude of beings individually choose which they want to agree with.
>
> Many realities but not isolated, except when someone is in the mood for
> that.
>
> In such a scenario, each individual can be a god with the power to make
> any postulate stick, at least as far as physical reality goes. The tradeoff
> is that he cannot make anything stick as far as trying to enforce or demand
> anything from another being, because they are gods too.
>
> If Joe wants to visit Bill, he has to put up with Bill's postulate for a
> tacky lime green sky with orange pokadots. Or he can change the sky and see
> if Bill will come along with him, but if Bill chooses to keep the pokadots
> while Joe insists on a blue sky, then they will find themselves in
> different realities and no longer talking to each other.
>
> Think of a radio with endless stations and you can tune in to whatever you
> feel like. But a particular announcer, whom you might like, is currently
> playing music that you don't care for. Its up to you whether you stick with
> him or try another station.
>
> That is total freedom. You can have anything you want, no matter how
> outlandish.
>
> Joe can even mockup a copy of Bill and give him a better taste in sky
> colors. But it wouldn't be the real Bill, just Joe talking to a puppet he
> mocked up.
>
> What Joe can't have is cont

Re: [TROM1] Tromming Along

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Colleen,

I'm so extremely proud of you and thankful to be associated with you.
It's such an immense education both ways between us.   A very well done on
this !
'Gained a new level of proper humility.'   Yes,  I have most defininitely
noticed this,  most certainly so in the last month;  this makes me doubly
want to duplicate that flow,  and show humility also in my transactions
towards you.   How am I doing on this ?
The flower petal analogy rings true for me,  and I agree that it can be
very aesthetic.   Aesthetics can be one of the best traps,  can't it?
Thetans seem to love aesthetics;   it's hard to think that aesthetics are
part of the physical universe,  and the physical universe is composed of
TIPM ( from Insanity Postulates !).  This is mind boggling to me
sometimes;   All the beautiful things are made from insanity?!   I guess
so.  [?]  (demo of a Green trying to wrap his mind around that).

Yours always,   Aarre
p.s.   No matter where we go, I always want to be associated with you.  [?]
(two yellows being very loving).

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hello, Pete, I downloaded the latest transcripts and some of the older
> ones too and will have it all on two hard drives and one flash drive memory
> stick.  Some of it is also printed out.
>
> DHS wrote:"The entire secret of making any mental mass vanish is to
> re-evaluate its importance to present time realities to the point where it
> is considered so trivial that there is no longer any need to keep it in
> existence, at which moment the mass can be easily not-known and will
> promptly vanish."
>
> After tripping out for several months exploring the other "Masters" such
> as Nisargadatta (very direct), Lester Levenson (workable processes in the
> Sedona Method), and lastly Adyashanti (excellent command of English
> language and the subject matter, agreeable aesthetics) I am back to reading
> afresh TROM manual.  The lack of verbosity and aesthetics in TROM and
> Dennis is glaring in my eyes, but only because I still have some aesthetic
> hangups.  I know that too will pass.  I recall Dennis saying how beautiful
> he finds the level 5 matrix.
>
> In the early section of the manual where Dennis talks about the 4 legs of
> overts/motivators I determined that I consistently act out "must be known"
> and it rang true once I scanned myself and see my extreme sensitivity to
> rejection, and scientologically extrapolated out that I also
> commit/committed overts of rejection and this dovetailed very nicely with
> discovering my current reality of my true conditions per the LRH Ethics
> Conditions and their formulas.  Worked up from the bottom (below Confusion)
> and am at point of writing up O/Ws re rejection, sticking to this
> lifetime.  Gained a new level of proper humility.  I pay tribute to Dennis
> and the other "Masters" for not allowing me to linger and languish in
> high-minded identities and games states of "enlightenment", and to keep
> tromming through to Nirvana, which means "cessation".
>
> Dennis pointedly states that one might not be able to flatten a junior
> universe if there are continuing overts, and I saw my own universe that I
> was/am still holding on to and how it was formed to keep me in the game and
> winning, and how I still commit overts, still play that game.
>
> At one point during the ethics conditions process I saw all the IP states
> organized as The Flower of Life, a topography of consciousness as pertains
> to IP states as they eternally create sensational matters.  From the
> distance these IP states all look so lovely and beautiful.  Was it not so?
>
> And "That was then and this is now...".
>
> colleen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *- i - *
>
>
> ___
> Trom mailing list
> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
<<35D.gif>><<361.gif>>___
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Re: [TROM1] Undermining the West Through Psychology

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Pete,

Thankyou for the excellent article exposing/lambasting the mot

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Here is an interesting article.  It raises the question What do TROMers do
> after they complete level 5.  Do you picture hiding in a cave in the
> wilderness or see yourself exploring new territories, discovering new
> science, starting new businesses? Nirvana's nice but what could you do if
> you chose to play a really big game?
>
> Keep On TROMing
> Pete
> UNDERMINING THE WEST THROUGH 
> PSYCHOLOGY
>
>
>
> UNDERMINING THE EDUCATED CLASSES WITH PSYCHOLOGY
>
>
>
> by Jon Rappoport
>
> author of THE MATRIX REVEALED
>
> April 19, 2012
>
>
>
> “…the methods that are used by law enforcement to gain confessions are
> based upon extremely powerful psychological techniques that have been known
> to social scientists for decades. These same methods have been used by
> marketers and conmen alike for centuries to convince regular people to do
> their will. That fact that these same techniques can be applied by law
> enforcement to get people, who often times should clearly have known
> better, to give statements that result in lengthy imprisonment, or even
> execution, is a testament to the power of such techniques!” — Eric Mings,
> PhD ofinterrogationpsychology.com
> .
>
>
>
> For many new readers who are coming to my work for the first time, part of
> my approach is to analyze systems that operate *as* mind control.
>
>
>
> These systems *aren’t called* mind control. They work by shrinking down
> the vision of what a human being can be. They reduce, limit,
> restrict—sometimes in the name of “good science.”
>
>
>
> Such systems are often thought of as “realistic.” They appeal to the
> educated classes because they are taught in colleges, and because they can
> be studied extensively.
>
>
>
> During one of my interviews with retired propaganda master Ellis Medavoy
> (pseudonym), he stopped and said, “Look, you really want to understand what
> psychology is all about? It has two main uses now. Profiling a potential
> enemy, and concocting successful advertising. In both cases, it looks for
> the lowest common denominator. Is that what you want therapy in an office
> to deliver to a patient? A lowest common denominator?”
>
>
>
> With the onset of Freudian psychoanalysis, intellectuals in the West began
> to perceive a new way of looking at the human being: as a bundle of
> INTERIOR problems, which needed to be resolved through a deep understanding
> of primary traumas sustained in childhood.
>
>
>
> These problems were touted as UNAVOIDABLE. There was no way to work around
> them, except through therapy.
>
>
>
> This sort of propaganda was undertaken by newly minted “mental-health
> professionals,” who were busy creating journals and conferences and faculty
> positions, in order to cement their status in society.
>
>
>
> Essentially, their sales pitch was: we’re indispensable; we are the only
> people who can restore true sanity.
>
>
>
> As psychology spread its wings, the restoration of sanity, which from the
> beginning was a fatally flawed jumble of nonsense, took on a different hue.
> It morphed into: making people normal.
>
>
>
> This was an easier goal to comprehend, and it fed into the fears of those
> who wanted to be accepted in a world that was becoming increasingly
> conventional and conformist.
>
>
>
> Of course, normalcy could never be adequately defined, but people had a
> sense of what it meant. That was good enough. Getting along with others was
> part of it. Feeling comfortable in a group was part of it. Sharing similar
> ideas and feelings was part of it. Being a member of a team was part of it.
> Learning to live with limitations was part of it.
>
>
>
> All these factors helped extend the growing political concept of
> Collectivism, a system in which the so-called needs of the many are placed
> light-years ahead of the needs of the individual.
>
>
>
> Psychological therapy was now viewed as a process through which a patient
> could learn to adapt and adjust—and moreover, such adjustment was deemed
> “recovery from neurosis.”
>
>
>
> In other words, it wasn’t just superficial socialization. It was the
> attainment of inner equilibrium, a victory in which “what a human really
> is” was achieved.
>
>
>
> This was the new propaganda.
>
>
>
> Well, what else would you expect? Psychologists couldn’t simply say,
> “We’re training you to fit in.” They had to dress it up.
>
>
>
> The bottom line here—and it is a very significant one—is that *great
> individual achievement* was taken off the stage.
>
>
>
> It was replaced by 

Re: [TROM1] Undermining the West Through Psychology

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Pete,

Thankyou for the excellent article exposing/lambasting the motives of
Psychology.

Aarre Peltomaa

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Here is an interesting article.  It raises the question What do TROMers do
> after they complete level 5.  Do you picture hiding in a cave in the
> wilderness or see yourself exploring new territories, discovering new
> science, starting new businesses? Nirvana's nice but what could you do if
> you chose to play a really big game?
>
> Keep On TROMing
> Pete
> UNDERMINING THE WEST THROUGH 
> PSYCHOLOGY<http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/undermining-the-west-through-psychology/>
>
>
>
> UNDERMINING THE EDUCATED CLASSES WITH PSYCHOLOGY
>
>
>
> by Jon Rappoport
>
> author of THE MATRIX REVEALED
>
> April 19, 2012
>
>
>
> “…the methods that are used by law enforcement to gain confessions are
> based upon extremely powerful psychological techniques that have been known
> to social scientists for decades. These same methods have been used by
> marketers and conmen alike for centuries to convince regular people to do
> their will. That fact that these same techniques can be applied by law
> enforcement to get people, who often times should clearly have known
> better, to give statements that result in lengthy imprisonment, or even
> execution, is a testament to the power of such techniques!” — Eric Mings,
> PhD ofinterrogationpsychology.com<http://www.interrogationpsychology.com/>
> .
>
>
>
> For many new readers who are coming to my work for the first time, part of
> my approach is to analyze systems that operate *as* mind control.
>
>
>
> These systems *aren’t called* mind control. They work by shrinking down
> the vision of what a human being can be. They reduce, limit,
> restrict—sometimes in the name of “good science.”
>
>
>
> Such systems are often thought of as “realistic.” They appeal to the
> educated classes because they are taught in colleges, and because they can
> be studied extensively.
>
>
>
> During one of my interviews with retired propaganda master Ellis Medavoy
> (pseudonym), he stopped and said, “Look, you really want to understand what
> psychology is all about? It has two main uses now. Profiling a potential
> enemy, and concocting successful advertising. In both cases, it looks for
> the lowest common denominator. Is that what you want therapy in an office
> to deliver to a patient? A lowest common denominator?”
>
>
>
> With the onset of Freudian psychoanalysis, intellectuals in the West began
> to perceive a new way of looking at the human being: as a bundle of
> INTERIOR problems, which needed to be resolved through a deep understanding
> of primary traumas sustained in childhood.
>
>
>
> These problems were touted as UNAVOIDABLE. There was no way to work around
> them, except through therapy.
>
>
>
> This sort of propaganda was undertaken by newly minted “mental-health
> professionals,” who were busy creating journals and conferences and faculty
> positions, in order to cement their status in society.
>
>
>
> Essentially, their sales pitch was: we’re indispensable; we are the only
> people who can restore true sanity.
>
>
>
> As psychology spread its wings, the restoration of sanity, which from the
> beginning was a fatally flawed jumble of nonsense, took on a different hue.
> It morphed into: making people normal.
>
>
>
> This was an easier goal to comprehend, and it fed into the fears of those
> who wanted to be accepted in a world that was becoming increasingly
> conventional and conformist.
>
>
>
> Of course, normalcy could never be adequately defined, but people had a
> sense of what it meant. That was good enough. Getting along with others was
> part of it. Feeling comfortable in a group was part of it. Sharing similar
> ideas and feelings was part of it. Being a member of a team was part of it.
> Learning to live with limitations was part of it.
>
>
>
> All these factors helped extend the growing political concept of
> Collectivism, a system in which the so-called needs of the many are placed
> light-years ahead of the needs of the individual.
>
>
>
> Psychological therapy was now viewed as a process through which a patient
> could learn to adapt and adjust—and moreover, such adjustment was deemed
> “recovery from neurosis.”
>
>
>
> In other words, it wasn’t just superficial socialization. 

Re: [TROM1] New Transcript

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Pete,
Thanks much,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647)202-7267

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi All
>   I made some time free and typed a transcript for the lecture "01 Level 6
> Bonding".
>
> you will find it on the webpage  www.tromhelp.com, Supplemental Lectures
> 2, Level 5D or at this link
>
> http://tromhelp.com/supplemental_lectures_2
>
> It's in .DOC (Word) and .PDF (Adobe Reader) formats
>
> Keep on TROMing
>
> Pete
>
> ___
> Trom mailing list
> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
___
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[TROM1] The Noosphere

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hello everyone,

I found out about and cursorily looked at something called the Noosphere;
that term was developed in the 1926.   What I basically got out of it is
that consciousness will supercede biology, and forms a consciousness field
called a Noosphere (Mind Sphere).   It is fascinating to correlate this
with what Dennis said about the creation of matter from the mind, and our
ability to eventually uncreate it.   Also the joint postulates about how
some numbers, especially 13, 12. and 260, seem to be so important.
Apparently when we get more and more evolved, out minds will be more and
more interlinked, like the Internet.  Of course our eventual goal is the
removal of mind, unless we want to turn part of it back on temporarily to
play a game for fun.  More food for thought.
Aarre Peltomaa.
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

Noosphere II

   - Introduction <http://www.lawoftime.org/noosphere.html>
   - Theory and History of the
Noosphere<http://www.lawoftime.org/noosphere/theoryandhistory.html>
   - Biosphere-Noosphere
Transition<http://www.lawoftime.org/noosphere/transition.html>
   - Noosphere Articles<http://www.lawoftime.org/noosphere/nooarticles.html>
   - Galactic Research Institute<http://www.lawoftime.org/noosphere/gri.html>
   - CREST13 Project <http://www.lawoftime.org/noosphere/crest13.html>
   - Home <http://www.lawoftime.org/home.html>

<http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawoftime.org%2Fnoosphere%2Ftheoryandhistory.html&title=Theory%20and%20History%20of%20the%20Noosphere&description=>
[image: Theory and History of the Noosphere]

The Noosphere - literally, “mind-sphere” or Earth’s mental sheathe - is a
word and concept jointly coined by* **Jules le Roi*, French philosopher and
student of Henri Bergson, Jesuit paleontologist *Pierre Teilhard de Chardin,
* and Russian geochemist, *Vladimir Vernadsky*, in Paris, 1926. At the root
of the primary definition of noosphere is a dual perception: that life on
Earth is a unity constituting a whole system known as the biosphere; and
that the mind or consciousness of life - the Earth’s thinking layer -
constitutes a unity that is discontinuous but coextensive with the entire
system of life on Earth, inclusive of its inorganic support systems. A
third critical premise arising from the first two is that the noosphere
defines the inevitable next stage of terrestrial evolution, which will
subsume and transform the biosphere.

How this evolutionary shift might occur is at the crux of the
experiment, *Noosphere
II*. Though little else is known concerning Jules le Roi, our ideas about
the noosphere and the transition from the biosphere to the noosphere are
largely derived from the perceptions of Teilhard de Chardin and Vernadsky,
along with the work of American Physicist, Oliver Reiser. We will summarize
these viewpoints below.

1. *Pierre Teilhard de Chardin* foresaw the emergence of the noosphere at a
peak mystical moment referred to as the Omega Point. This moment would be
the result of the interactions of increasing activity of human networks
creating a highly charged “thinking layer.” Teilhard speaks of there being
planets with noosphere - planets in which the thinking layer advances to
the stage where it produces a noosphere, the mental sheathe “above and
discontinuous with the biosphere.” Thus Teilhard de Chardin wrote of a “...
network of links ... more and more literally present, in the immensity of
their organism, as the image of a nervous system...” This nervous system
would be the function of a “... geotechnology extending a closely
interdependent network of its enterprises over the whole earth ...”

Since Teilhard de Chardin’s death in 1955 when his books could finally be
published, most notably the *Phenomenon of Man* (1959) and the *Future of
Man *(1964), the advance of the biosphere into a transitional stage, the
technosphere, has seen the *virtual* fulfillment of de Chardin’s
prerequisite for the manifestation of the noosphere, a global information
network - a geotechnology - the Internet. As the penultimate stage in the
development of an actual freely functioning thinking layer, the Internet is
the means of electronically linking up the noosphere prior to the mystical
moment of the Omega Point - “At that node of ultimate synthesis, the
internal spark of consciousness that evolution has slowly banked into a
roaring fire will finally consume the universe itself. Our ancient itch to
flee this woeful orb will finally be satisfied as the immense expanse of
cosmic matter collapses like some mathematician’s hypercube into absolute
spirit.” (www.noosphere.princeton.edu.com)

2. *Vladimir Vernadsky and the RussianSchool*. Vernadsky, key theoretician
of the biosphere (*Biosphere*, 1926), took for his point of departure for
the advent of the noosphere the issue of biogeochem

Re: [TROM1] FW: Inspiration for Valentines

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi David,

That was funny and really punny !   I'm really liked that.  It shows
excellent imagination, and intelligence.

Thanks,
Aarre Peltomaa

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 2:29 PM, David M. Pelly wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>
>
> --
>
>  Dear Friends:
>
> Happy Belated Valentines Day..
> *A Food Valentine *
>
> *Cabbage always has a heart;
> Green beans string along.
> You're such a Tomato,
> Will you Peas to me belong?
>
> You've been the Apple of my eye,
> You know how much I care;
> So Lettuce get together,
> We'd make a perfect Pear.
>
> Now, something's sure to Turnip,
> To prove you can't be Beet;
> So, if you Carrot all for me
> Let's let our tulips meet.
>
> Don't Squash my hopes and dreams now,
> Bee my Honey, dear;
> Or tears will fill Potato's eyes,
> While Sweet Corn lends an ear.
>
> I'll Cauliflower shop and say
> Your dreams are Parsley mine.
> I'll work and share my Celery,
> So be my valentine. *
>
>
>
> ___
> Trom mailing list
> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
___
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Re: [TROM1] Success running out "To Eat..." Compulsions

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Colleen/ Aarre/  Jan. 13

Oh, my god, do you get more long winded than I do sometimes.   I read it
all, and thanks very much for all the wins.  As usual, I'm very proud of
you.

Hubby,  Aarre

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> I'm so sure that no one else has eating issues like I do, but just in
> case, there is relief/release with TROM.
>
>
> Yesterday my auditor helped me jump start Timebreaking a tonsillectomy
> since there was a lot of blackness around it.  With a little Alternate
> Confront I started timebreaking very well and quickly, ran repeater tech on
> "Bodies are dangerous", then "Thetans are dangerous".  Ran that out until
> flat, scenes moving by, realizations coming in.  All viewed against the
> present time location.
>
> Because of some recent re-stims regarding my research into more healthful
> lifestyles, food and eating was presented to me during this incident.  (Mom
> gave me soft sweets.)
>
> Without fully knowing the matrix of the "To Eat" junior package, I found
> myself natively running it out, once I lightened the surgery incident.  It
> moved and I scanned it from  initially complementary through to more and
> more serious, in all its permutatiions. Amazing, the games I played.  I'm
> sure, looking back, that I could have looked at it in more detail.
>
> The RESULT is my intake of nourishment is more guided by what the body is
> telling me and not what the mind, or any possible parasitical entities in
> the body are telling me.
>
> I am subject to insulin resistance so this is very helpful to me with
> regards to managing sugar swings.  I also felt more in tune with the body's
> healing protocols.
>
> Healthy foods that I formerly did not like much, like blue green algae,
> vegetables, are now easier for me to simply eat without a lot of
> additives.  I purchased a juicer and am now juicing veggies for more
> convenience.
>
> I used to become easily mutally out-ruds re simple sugars, and now it is
> only the other's out-ruds,. I no longer feel compelled to use another's
> out-ruds as an excuse to go out-ruds, re the specific compulsions I ran
> out.
>
> That can be a BIGGIE for people who live or work around people who eat all
> kinds of crap, pardon my french.
>
> Had to do a LOT of RI to fill in the resulting vacuous feeling.  Still
> doing RI  -- that was a lot of simpleness that occurred, especially for a
> former gourmet cook.
>
> [mutual out-rudiments, i.e., going into agreement with another's
> compulsions]
>
> All this from a natural and spontaneous scanning of the "To Eat" package.
> AND I must emphasize, at Level 3, it is very helpful for me to have help to
> dig into things like surgeries.
>
> Colleen
>
>
>
> ___
> Trom mailing list
> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Ongoing issue I have with TROM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hei Alexander,   from   Aarre   Nov. 20/'11

That's exactly how I feel !   Yes !

Aarre

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Alexander Graf wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> This is exactly how i feel. i had fireworks at level 2. i lose charge
> everyday even without session. i lose charge while watching "sanctuary"
> online :-)
>
> charge is gone...what was it? i dont know. do i care?! not much. i also
> feel the same about scientology auditing. very loud.
> trom removes the legs of the table with charge on it without touching the
> contents of the table. nice trick.
> sometimes i ask myself if i regained abilities and im not sure. my whole
> case is reduced. i still have the same set of problems but they dont feel
> as life threatening as before.
>
> yesterday i had a thought: if i were the most powerful being and decided
> to play and become serious and reduce my power to postulate... i'd
> postulate first, that i will get out of everything no matter how bad my
> condition is. like a rescue line :-)
> in the worst scenario id be a dust particle with the intention to look for
> solutions to everything. not the quick fix or a small improvement but the
> whole way back.
>
> good luck!
> alex
>
>
> 2011/11/20 Aarre Peltomaa 
>
>> *
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> 
>>
>> Hi Leon, from   Aarre  Nov. 19/'11
>>
>> May I risk a possible answer?   I haven't done too much level 4, but have
>> worked on the 8 overwhelms.  I'm not finished level 3, so I'm only
>> speculating a possible explanation.   To me TROM is so deep down basic,  it
>> deflates the 'tire'  of charge (analogy) slowly, rather than with explosive
>> case gone.   TROM seems to deplete the whole case,  each time it's run,
>> rather than address individual incidents, of which there are millions or
>> trillions on the whole time track anyway.  It seems to be subdued, with no
>> hugh fireworks.  It just seems to be a slowly leaking 'tire', where the
>> charge is leaving day after day, even when you didn't have a session.  My
>> sessions have not been very 'loud',  compared to Scientology sessions.  It
>> seems that the further you are from early/prime cause, the more explosive,
>> loud, and bombastic seems to be the case gain, because the fundamental
>> postulates don't seem to be addressed in Scientology.  Cause is very
>> quiet,  and effect is very loud.  I believe that if one addressed the 'to
>> know' postulate, that whole chunks and sections of case would vanish
>> smoothly and quietly without your even knowing half about what left.  One
>> might say,  'what's gone?'.  Something is changed drastically, but I don't
>> know exactly what left?
>>
>> Randy  (Slim),  do you think this makes sense?
>>
>> Thanks,   Aarre
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Leo Swart  wrote:
>>
>>> *
>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>>> 
>>>
>>> I wish Dennis was still around so I could talk to him. There is one
>>> issue I have with TROM that remains unresolved for me. Don't get me wrong -
>>> I do love these materials and I can get it to work for me and I get the
>>> gains out of it, all is OK on that score. But, still I have this nagging
>>> feeling about it.
>>>
>>> You see a really thorough end penomena in running an incident or
>>> "blowing it" or whatever you want to call it, let's say Dealing with a past
>>> incident, would include: (a) full erasure of the charge locked up by the
>>> incident, (b) full perception and realization of all of the significances
>>> contained in and resulting from the incident, (c) the ability to fully
>>> pervade the actual considered time and space in which the incident
>>> occurred, and (d) a full recovery of all of the beingness, activity level
>>> and reach that the person had prior to the incident.
>>>
>>> TROM achieves (a) pretty well. But what about the rest?  I don't find
>>> these here.
>>>
>>> Your comments and advice would be welcome.
>>>
>>> Leon
>>>
>>>   --
>>> *From:* "trom-requ..

Re: [TROM1] Ongoing issue I have with TROM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Leon, from   Aarre  Nov. 19/'11

May I risk a possible answer?   I haven't done too much level 4, but have
worked on the 8 overwhelms.  I'm not finished level 3, so I'm only
speculating a possible explanation.   To me TROM is so deep down basic,  it
deflates the 'tire'  of charge (analogy) slowly, rather than with explosive
case gone.   TROM seems to deplete the whole case,  each time it's run,
rather than address individual incidents, of which there are millions or
trillions on the whole time track anyway.  It seems to be subdued, with no
hugh fireworks.  It just seems to be a slowly leaking 'tire', where the
charge is leaving day after day, even when you didn't have a session.  My
sessions have not been very 'loud',  compared to Scientology sessions.  It
seems that the further you are from early/prime cause, the more explosive,
loud, and bombastic seems to be the case gain, because the fundamental
postulates don't seem to be addressed in Scientology.  Cause is very
quiet,  and effect is very loud.  I believe that if one addressed the 'to
know' postulate, that whole chunks and sections of case would vanish
smoothly and quietly without your even knowing half about what left.  One
might say,  'what's gone?'.  Something is changed drastically, but I don't
know exactly what left?

Randy  (Slim),  do you think this makes sense?

Thanks,   Aarre

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Leo Swart  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> I wish Dennis was still around so I could talk to him. There is one issue
> I have with TROM that remains unresolved for me. Don't get me wrong - I do
> love these materials and I can get it to work for me and I get the gains
> out of it, all is OK on that score. But, still I have this nagging feeling
> about it.
>
> You see a really thorough end penomena in running an incident or "blowing
> it" or whatever you want to call it, let's say Dealing with a past
> incident, would include: (a) full erasure of the charge locked up by the
> incident, (b) full perception and realization of all of the significances
> contained in and resulting from the incident, (c) the ability to fully
> pervade the actual considered time and space in which the incident
> occurred, and (d) a full recovery of all of the beingness, activity level
> and reach that the person had prior to the incident.
>
> TROM achieves (a) pretty well. But what about the rest?  I don't find
> these here.
>
> Your comments and advice would be welcome.
>
> Leon
>
>   --
> *From:* "trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org" 
> *To:* trom@lists.newciv.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, 20 November 2011 1:00 AM
> *Subject:* Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 27
>
> Send Trom mailing list submissions to
> trom@lists.newciv.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org 
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Trom digest"
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 26 (Leo Faulhaber)
>   2. exclusion lecture question (Colleen Peltomaa)
>   3. Re: exclusion lecture question (xriz)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:14:23 +0100
> From: Leo Faulhaber 
> To: trom@lists.newciv.org
> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 26
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>   1. Answer to "Exclusion" Lecture question (Leo Faulhaber)
>
> Hi Colleen
>
> Some physisists might try a whole life long to prove the existence of a
> merely speculative sub atomic particle.
>
> Or one might try to prove that something works that in actual fact doesn't.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Leo Faulhaber
>
>
>
> 2011/11/18 
>
> > Send Trom mailing list submissions to
> >trom@lists.newciv.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >trom-requ...@lists..newciv.org 
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >  1. "Exclusion" Lecture question (Colleen Peltomaa)
> >  2. Re: "Exclusion" Lecture question (xriz)
> >  3. Re: "Exclusion" Lecture question (xriz)
> >  4. Re: "Exclusion" Lecture question (xriz)
> >
> >
> > --

Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 17

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Thanks Alex   from Aarre Nov. 12/'11

I guess it all benefits the total planet.

Your friend,
Aarre Peltomaa,
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:48 AM,  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Of course YES.Whatever we do inour , reflects in mass consciousness as
> well.The more Trommers the bigger the effect!
> So let's do our job.
> good work,
> alex.
>
>
> Il giorno 12/nov/11, alle ore 13:00, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org ha
> scritto:
>
> Even if all TROM members got to level 5 completion by Dec. 21/'2012, do you
>
> think that that action alone would distimulate the planet enough to shift
>
> into a golden age?
>
>
>
> ___
> Trom mailing list
> Trom@lists.newciv.org
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>
>
___
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Re: [TROM1] I mentioned earlier how important Relative Importances are

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Pete,from  AarreNov. 11/'11

My understanding is that those three classes of 'Merchants of Chaos',
the gov't, the central bankers, and the big finance bastards are just
dramatising overwhelms they experienced from higher and higher off world
sources, and thus are themselves in turn being 'given it up the back
tailpipe'.   Wouldn't things on this planet resolve more quickly if the
beings closer to the source of the abberative games were addressed, not the
lackeys much down the totem pole of influence?   I understand that in the
corporate world, the most relaxed person that you could talk to would
usually be the one at the top, and the farther down into middle
management you go, the more stressed, worried, and non wholistic the
members become.  A change that would take years to make from a middle
management level person, could be approved and enforced in weeks by one of
the top execs, without too much fear of 'losing his job';  he got their
because he got over the 'fear of losing his job', so was senior to it.

Even if all TROM members got to level 5 completion by Dec. 21/'2012, do you
think that that action alone would distimulate the planet enough to shift
into a golden age?  I'm not sure what to think, except that we need to do
our TROM, and I feel that we are fighting against time ?   The planet is
one 'sick puppy', so don't you think we need some powerful help in our
affairs before we 'blow up'?
There is one video of a ufo blasting a missle launched by the US military,
and then the missle went sideways, went out of control, and was destroyed.
Unless I've been duped and lied to, the aliens have prevented any nuclear
missiles from being launched successfully for several years now, and have
even disabled the nukes in Nebraska, I believe it was,  for hours on end.
They apparently could shut down the 'triple m's'  (military mental
midgets), if they wished.

Yours,   Aarre



On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Why all this concern about ETs out to get us.  We have enough real trouble
> with over-intrusive, over regulating, over taxing government and the
> Central Bankers counterfeiting money so as to rob the savings and pensions
> of the people while the Big Finance corporations like MF Global,
> Goldmansachs, JP Morgan et al are stealing the stocks and bonds they hold
> for their customers.
>   Use TROM to figure out how to not be the sucker in these three games and
> you will be safe from most of the real threats in life.
>
> Keep on TROMing
>
> Pete
>
> --
> *From:* Aarre Peltomaa 
> *To:* The Resolution of Mind list 
> *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2011 7:05 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [TROM1] I mentioned earlier how important Relative
> Importances are
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Thanks so very much,  Bill,  from Aarre  Nov.
> 11/'11
>
> I'm going to make a new google label for 'books to be read'. This is going
> into it. I need to read the Truman Cash ebooks first.  I believe in the
> panning for gold method of finding truth;  If you seek enough varied, and
> even contradictory sources, you can start piecing together the puzzle, and
> know what's going on, and the supposed 'truth'.  Of course, Dennis stated
> that everything in the physical universe can be known, because it was
> placed there to be known.   I am going to get to that level, and have on
> many occasions done that bit by bit.  I believe in the wholistic approach
> to data accumulation/evaluation,  and I'm sure that it is what I learned on
> one of the 'Student Hat' (study course) lectures by L Ron Hubbard when I
> did the course.  He said, if you aren't sure, get data from many, many
> sources, and compare it.  This is much like panning for gold, and finding
> mostly dirt (dross), but occasionally coming across gorgeous nugget of gold
> (truth) !  We are going to be finding lots of nuggets of truth.  The
> 'truth' cannot be hidden permanently;  only temporarily.
>
> You've been kind of quiet, Bill;  come out from behind the curtain and
> tell us something about yourself ?
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Bill  wrote:
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Try reading "Keepers of the Garden" by Dolores Can

Re: [TROM1] I mentioned earlier how important Relative Importances are

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Thanks so very much,  Bill,  from Aarre  Nov.
11/'11

I'm going to make a new google label for 'books to be read'. This is going
into it. I need to read the Truman Cash ebooks first.  I believe in the
panning for gold method of finding truth;  If you seek enough varied, and
even contradictory sources, you can start piecing together the puzzle, and
know what's going on, and the supposed 'truth'.  Of course, Dennis stated
that everything in the physical universe can be known, because it was
placed there to be known.   I am going to get to that level, and have on
many occasions done that bit by bit.  I believe in the wholistic approach
to data accumulation/evaluation,  and I'm sure that it is what I learned on
one of the 'Student Hat' (study course) lectures by L Ron Hubbard when I
did the course.  He said, if you aren't sure, get data from many, many
sources, and compare it.  This is much like panning for gold, and finding
mostly dirt (dross), but occasionally coming across gorgeous nugget of gold
(truth) !  We are going to be finding lots of nuggets of truth.  The
'truth' cannot be hidden permanently;  only temporarily.

You've been kind of quiet, Bill;  come out from behind the curtain and tell
us something about yourself ?

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Bill  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Try reading "Keepers of the Garden" by Dolores Cannon.  I found it very
> interesting concerning ETs
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>
> Aarre Peltomaa  wrote:
>
> >*
> >The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> >
> >
> >Hi Paul  from AarreNov. 11/11
> >
> >Awesomely true,  as Colleen has reminded me many times.  I'm postulating
> >getting to the level where I can 'postulate' that it's not that important,
> >and just flush it down the toilet.   I've had some moments like that, and
> >surely will have more.
> >
> >By the way, has anyone had any strange, non-sequitur occurances or
> feelings
> >since it is the much talked about 11-11-11 ?  I was so tired and washed
> out
> >this morning (totally zapped), that I didn't go to work until later in the
> >afternoon;  I clean eavestroughs and windows for a 'living'.  Before that,
> >I had a coughing cold for 2 days.  Just coincidence or some other factor?
> >I don't know if you believe this or not, but the ET's on '2012 Indy Info'
> >keep saying that we are supposed to have a massive download of good
> >energies for out DNA  today and on Dec. 21st. of 2012.   I try to keep my
> >mind open and take in all data, good or bad, hoping not to get
> >indigestion.  I am currently, with Colleen's help, doing a doubt formula
> on
> >the ET's intentions for us.  I know that the Greys and Reptilians are bad
> >ass, but am not certain yet about the Pleidians, Orions, Arcturians,
> >Andromedans, and Syrians, the so called white hats from the 'Galactic
> >Federation of Light'.  The Vector Analysis Board data (ask me for the
> link)
> >suggests we are all being given it up the rear ends by the masters at the
> >very, very top matrix of the playing board, and are therefore just pawns.
> >I'm currently reading Truman Cash's  2 ebooks about what nasty's ET's do
> to
> >Homo Sapiens.I'm *extremely* open to all viewpoints and data on this
> to
> >help my continuing Doubt Condition about their intentions.
> >
> >Even if none of this is that 'IMPORTANT' to me,  it still is very
> >interesting if not other than for it's 'intellectual
> >stimulation/masturbation' reason.  In plain English,  it's very, very
> >interesting to me.
> >
> >How are you guys feeling on 11-11-11?  ; any different?
> >
> >Your friend,
> >Aarre Peltomaa,
> >peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
> >(647) 202-7267
> >p.s.  If you want excellent info on the mechanics of the physical
> >universe,   look up 'The Electric Universe' and 'Thunderbolts.com'.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:40 AM, Paul Tipon  >wrote:
> >
> >> *
> >> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> >> 
> >> Well, in prepping for doing Level 5 by reading and re-reading over
> >> and over again, I came across this truth by 

Re: [TROM1] I mentioned earlier how important Relative Importances are

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Paul  from AarreNov. 11/11

Awesomely true,  as Colleen has reminded me many times.  I'm postulating
getting to the level where I can 'postulate' that it's not that important,
and just flush it down the toilet.   I've had some moments like that, and
surely will have more.

By the way, has anyone had any strange, non-sequitur occurances or feelings
since it is the much talked about 11-11-11 ?  I was so tired and washed out
this morning (totally zapped), that I didn't go to work until later in the
afternoon;  I clean eavestroughs and windows for a 'living'.  Before that,
I had a coughing cold for 2 days.  Just coincidence or some other factor?
I don't know if you believe this or not, but the ET's on '2012 Indy Info'
keep saying that we are supposed to have a massive download of good
energies for out DNA  today and on Dec. 21st. of 2012.   I try to keep my
mind open and take in all data, good or bad, hoping not to get
indigestion.  I am currently, with Colleen's help, doing a doubt formula on
the ET's intentions for us.  I know that the Greys and Reptilians are bad
ass, but am not certain yet about the Pleidians, Orions, Arcturians,
Andromedans, and Syrians, the so called white hats from the 'Galactic
Federation of Light'.  The Vector Analysis Board data (ask me for the link)
suggests we are all being given it up the rear ends by the masters at the
very, very top matrix of the playing board, and are therefore just pawns.
I'm currently reading Truman Cash's  2 ebooks about what nasty's ET's do to
Homo Sapiens.I'm *extremely* open to all viewpoints and data on this to
help my continuing Doubt Condition about their intentions.

Even if none of this is that 'IMPORTANT' to me,  it still is very
interesting if not other than for it's 'intellectual
stimulation/masturbation' reason.  In plain English,  it's very, very
interesting to me.

How are you guys feeling on 11-11-11?  ; any different?

Your friend,
Aarre Peltomaa,
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267
p.s.  If you want excellent info on the mechanics of the physical
universe,   look up 'The Electric Universe' and 'Thunderbolts.com'.



On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:40 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Well, in prepping for doing Level 5 by reading and re-reading over
> and over again, I came across this truth by Dennis.
>
> "The entire secret of making any mental mass vanish is to re-evaluate
> its importance to present time realities to the point where it is
> considered so trivial that there is no longer any need to keep it in
> existence; at which moment the mass can be easily not-known and will
> promptly vanish.  [On the other hand, ]While the mass is considered
> important, it will continue in existence and the being will continue
> to know it - even though trying desperately to not-know it.
>
> To try and vanish by means of force a mass while still holding the
> consideration that it is important is thus the height of stupidity
> and can only lead to frustration and failure.
>
> Thus we see that the re-evaluation of past importances is the only
> step required to achieve the vanishment of any mental mass.  As a
> successful psychotherapy can be defined as a system that brings about
> the vanishment of unwanted mental conditions, we see that this data
> is vital to our goal.
>
> The ability to assign and un-assign importances, while native to the
> being, will be found to require some attention on the route out."
>
> For ease of reading I have interjected the phrase found in brackets,
> i.e. [...].
>
> Paul
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Re: [TROM1] Onward to Level 5

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Paul,  from Aarre   Nov. 7/'11

So intense;  so awesome.  !!

Aarre

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:43 AM, Paul Tipon  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> As you can see, I am getting closer and closer to just having to do
> Level 5 next.  It’s almost by default, nothing else to do.  Learn and
> know how to be a master player of games.  From the Level 5 exercises
> I will know, then be, then do and have those abilities of being a
> master game player.
>
> Sure enough, I now know that I have completed Level 4.  It was there
> all along for me to discover in Dennis’ text.  I ran across it
> tonight as I was reading Level 4 before doing the exercise.  Wouldn’t
> you know that I was also on the 8th overwhelm, the last of the
> overwhelms where I just punch it and punch it even though nothing
> comes up to TimeBreak.  And what I wind up with is a deeper and
> broader understanding and truth of how I have been the only possible
> true and sole overwhelmer of myself.
>
> The secret is all in Dennis’ line, “Playing games got you into the
> mess and the understanding of games will get you out of it once
> more.”  (emphasis is mine)
>
> Yes, what I found is that on Level 4 comes an understanding of what
> overwhelms and games are.  Those who read my treatise on “Further
> findings and discussion on RI vs. TimeBreaking on Level 4,
> overwhelms:” could see that I was getting into evaluating just what
> overwhelms are.  In the beginning of my Level 4, one could see in my
> writings that I was discovering what really they are and what they
> aren’t.
>
> Now that I have the truth and the full understanding of games I am
> going to practice at games, games which come from pure raw postulates
> and exercise my understanding and Theta ability to achieve ‘Master’
> status in the application and playing of games.
>
> I have to confess to one major point in my development and that is
> that very early in life, even before high school, I discovered that I
> was the one in control of my mind.  I was the sole and only capable
> party of putting my mind there and giving it all of its properties.
> I was also aware of and capable of performing some control over my
> physical environment.  Yes I had the basics of the whole package,
> Thetan, mind, body and was actively exploring and cultivating my
> knowledge and abilities in those 3 disciplines before puberty.
>
> Once I got to that reality and ability I then found for decades that
> I couldn’t advance any further from where I was.  That is until I ran
> into Ron and Scientology.  It’s funny that I got to a point in Scn
> where I knew something was wrong and could see all of the out
> points.  I was then stuck again with no progress for decades until I
> finally decided to see what there was outside of Scn.  I have been
> following Freezoners for over a decade when I finally decided I
> needed to investigate this area further.
>
> So now, here I am advancing once again.
> ___
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Re: [TROM1] interesting fun piece on EXTERIOR

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Pete,from Aarre   Nov. 1/'11

Perhaps this is rhetorical.  I'm not sure.  I have L.Ron Hubbard's 'The
Factors' in front of me, so let's look at it.

1. Before the beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the cause was
the creation of effect.
2. In the beginning and forever is the decision and the decision is TO BE.
3. The first action of beingness is to assume a viewpoint.
4. The second action of beingness is to extend from the viewpoint, points
to view, which are dimension points.
etc.

Keypoint is the last half of Factor # 3.  Sequence.  The beingness
apparently came before the viewpoint, and THEN needed to assume a viewpoint.
At least LRH said that the beingness came before the viewpoint, insinuating
some sort of difference.  Before beingness was cause, so I took 'cause',
which is the earliest in the chain of events, to be the thetan (spirit).

Perhaps this isn't vital anyhow.

Thanks much,   Aarre



On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Aarre
>   My personal observations are that the Thetan is the viewpoint and can
> "locate" anywhere at will.  He can perceive with the bodies senses whether
> he is in the body or not but i find that i have a hard time perceiving the
> bodies sensations when i move my viewpoint out of the body and likewise i
> have a hard time not using the bodies senses when i am located in the body.
>
> At the moment i am most comfortable with the notion that everything
> started as the one being which we could label as
> God.  God postulated other beings to exist at which point they parted off
> from him.  While these other beings were separate from God by the postulate
> that they were not part of God this was a lie. They are in fact still part
> of God.
>   More postulates made more beings and more postulates made matter, energy
> and space.
>
> All of which is still God If all the postulates of separateness were
> eliminated there would only be God.
>
> If this view is correct then all considerations that the physical universe
> is in a different location from the thetan is incorrect.  All are just God
> and we thetans are just choosing to perceive or not perceive the physical
> universe, other beings with or without bodies and God himself as a matter
> of personal choices.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Pete
>
> --
> *From:* Aarre Peltomaa 
> *To:* Slim . 
> *Cc:* The Resolution of Mind list 
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:17 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [TROM1] interesting fun piece on EXTERIOR
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hi Randy, Oct. 29/'11Aarre
>
> It's a battle to catch up with the emails.  Sorry for the tardiness.  The
> thetan can never be in the physical universe, but only his creations can.
> His creations include the mind, body, brain, physical matter, etc.It
> seems to me that the thetan creates his mind out of postulates, and
> everything else out of postulates.  It would seem that, because the
> physical universe is 'generated with TIPM' out of a thetan's opposing
> postulates within the thetan's mind, voila!  The physical universe is
> within the thetan's mind as a construct, and nowhere else.  The mind is
> senior to the physical universe in other words.  The thetan is a static who
> isn't located anywhere.  It seems the thetan mocks up being overwhelmed
> because of his reactions to his postulates.  No?   He creates the
> 'Frankenstein's monster', and then decides to be freaked out when he sees
> it.  No?  It seems he must know and be known,  even to himself (flow 0).
> If by corrolary, the mind is senior to the physical universe, then it would
> seem that the mind, like the thetan that created it wouldn't be located
> anywhere.   Energies  'from' the mind are obviously located in the physical
> universe, but that doesn't mean that the mind itself is.  Perhaps there are
> two basic categories of mind, the postulates which aren't in the physical
> universe, and the 'energies, pictures, masses, noise, etc.', which is
> located in the physical universe.
>
> Food for thought.
>
> p.s. - the thetan's viewpoint goes exterior to the body, never the thetan
> 'himself'.  The thetan can never 'go' anywhere, and never has.   Your
> viewpoint travels around,  not you !  You create a vie

Re: [TROM1] contents Trom Digest, Vol 87, Issue 24

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Randy,from AarreNov. 6/'11

That was me,  Aarre Peltomaa, that discussed Louise Erison, the senior c/s
at Toronto,   an OT 8,  and class 8 auditor,  not Colleen.

Thanks,   Aarre

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 5:55 PM, SPE  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> All the " sessions" I run usually take anywhere from 5 minutes , including
> RI  to 30 minutes a day . Some days I'll have four or five short sessions
> in a day. Many times , almost all the time, do I ever have a " cognition "
> . It's after , the cognitions start happened for hours on end. It can
> easily be compared to a dilation wide floating needle for days and weeks .
> This doesn't mean , I don't run a session if I can. Some times I'm just too
> blown away to have any interest in running a session. A yawn mean
> absolutely nothing when compared to the case gains I've got with TROM.
>  TROM is truly the OTS , OT levels.
>
> Colleen , I know what you mean about the class 8 ot 8  who was a bitch.
>  the OT levels of the COS are just a different kind of carrot used to lead
> the hopefuls to the nearest Reg.
>
> have a nice day
>
> Slim
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 26, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Al  wrote:
>
> > *
> > The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> > 
> > Congratulations for your realizations.
> > Also for me RI is the more practised exercise . Some days I only do
> > plenty of RI.
> > Keep on doing Trom, you will discover amazing things on Level 5,
> > now I am excited to start a group of people on practising Trom.And RI is
> > the first exercise they will do.
> > let's become a big,big big comunity of Trommers !
> > alessandro.
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>1. Big Big realizatiions (Paul Tipon)
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:59:18 -0700
> >> From: Paul Tipon
> >> Subject: [TROM1] Big Big realizatiions
> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org
> >> Message-ID:<362105b4-c7a6-46a6-bbed-a63a13dc1...@proftitleserv.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
> >>format=flowed
> >>
> >> I am having some major realizations on Level 4.  Overwhelms are
> >> strictly those instances where I decided I was overwhelmed.  Only I
> >> can assign myself to being overwhelmed.  Nothing else nor no one can
> >> assign to me, being overwhelmed.
> >>
> >> I have also discovered how important RI is.  RI is the most run
> >> exercise of all of Dennis? exercises.  It saves oneself from caving
> >> in and going the involuntary effect.  RI is so important because my
> >> beingness, my identity and all of the Universe around me exists to me
> >> and for me as I see it.  By being all of that around me I have my
> >> Universe, my identity, my beingness.  All of the Universe around me
> >> that I and also that others create is what are a part of and
> >> contribute to my beingness, my identity, my action as part of the
> >> MEST Universe.
> >>
> >> Needless to say, therefore all of MEST is important to me.  So
> >> important that if it were not so, I would strictly be a static, a
> >> nothing, in no place at no time.  I contribute to it and it then
> >> contributes to me, my beingness, my doingness, my existence as
> >> somethings that go into making up me.
> >>
> >> HEY!  I?m playing a game.  Dare I say, it's not playing me.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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Re: [TROM1] let's become a big,big big comunity of Trommers !

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Paul from  Aarre   Nov. 6/'11

Congratulations !
Also,  I didn't know that overwhelm was so connected to a body.  That is
excellent data to have;  very helpful.

Aarre

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> I do agree to that.
>
> I post as much as I can to pull the group together and get everyone
> in communication.  Our hub for that communication is this TROM site.
>
> I am now doing the 8 overwhelms one at a time.  One hour each, making
> sure that nothing is coming up at all.  I believe I am completed on
> Level 4 because I now see the truth of overwhelms and have a freedom
> from them.  I now have the choice of deciding to be overwhelmed or
> not.  Overwhelms are strictly a body phenomena, a MEST Universe
> phenomena, an identity phenomena.  As a Thetan I cannot be
> overwhelmed.  As a body I can.  But! .  I can be or not be any
> body, any particle, any mass. Being overwhelmed or dead or causing
> that to another or others is a lie.  By Ron, the 2nd biggest overt/
> lie of all existence.
>
> I don't have to get the idea that I died.  That is a cop-out, a no
> responsibility action.
>
> They (overwhelms) have nothing to do with me the Thetan.
>
> This is discovering who and what you really are.
>
> One must know who and what the pieces are in playing a game to truly
> play the game.  I am ready for Level 5, the Master Game Player
> Level.  I will commence the Level 5 exercises once I have completed
> cleaning up all of those instances of overwhelm.  Those instances
> where I considered and then decided to be overwhelmed.
>
> Needless to say, I am quite serene.
>
> Paul
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Re: [TROM1] Chain of importances

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Yeah,   Randy !!  from AarreNov. 6/'11

I love what you just said;   *YES  *

Aarre


On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 5:01 PM, SPE  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> One importance is related to another.
>
> If life is important than all things that sustain life like food , water,
> shelter are also important.
> Once the body drops dead, all the important things that sustain life are
> also no longer important.
>
> Once one truly realizes one can exist without the need of a human body or
> other life form , it too loses some of it's importance. Not necessarily all
> of it.
>
> Same holds true with paradox chains. Blow a paradox and all the others
> that are related blow with it.
>
> We need not be concerned with engrams, chains, locks, yada yada. Just get
> to level five and go through the 16 levels. It all leads to the basic goal
> to know. You'll be destroying so much charge , you'll truly be beside
> yourself.
>
> I always measure my progress in results , not time spent running a
> command. Mostly in the ability to be at cause from a distance without using
> my body among other things.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:53 AM, Leo Faulhaber 
> wrote:
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>
>
> 2011/10/27 
>
>> Send Trom mailing list submissions to
>>trom@lists.newciv.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>    trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Re Basic-Basic and Engrammic Chains (Aarre Peltomaa)
>>   2. "If We're Different, It's Different" (Colleen Peltomaa)
>
>  3. "If We're Different, It's Different" (Leo Faulhaber)
>
> Hi Colleen
>
> At second glance you aren't.
>
> In "If A then B" you have two separate and different postulates that are
> bonded together.
>
> In chains one seems to have the same postulate all over again.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Leo Faulhaber
>
> --
>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:13:19 -0400
>> From: Aarre Peltomaa 
>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Re Basic-Basic and Engrammic Chains
>> To: The Resolution of Mind list 
>> Message-ID:
>><
>> canrdadt9vhcmjhfkydyzurp5dcbnubp1pd9jnfo8oc494qz...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Well done, Colleen,  Oct. 26/'11 Aarre
>>
>> At first glance, I think you're right on the money !
>>
>> Aarre
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Colleen Peltomaa > >wrote:
>>
>> > *
>> > The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> > 
>> >
>> > "If A then B" is the basic bonding postulate, as I'm listening to
>> Dennis'
>> > tape re "Bonding" and the subject of relationships.
>> >
>> > Can this be used to explain the seeming fixed relationship -- i.e.,
>> chains
>> > -- of (relatd) engrammic material?
>> >
>> > For example, in shock processing using R3X methods, I discovered that
>> huge
>> > chunks of related engrammic material would easily slough off once one
>> > contacted the basic-basic (postulate set), which occurred after layers
>> of
>> > charge that made it previously unaccesible were peeled away.
>> >
>> > I recently went to basic-basic and won an expanded VP and am mopping the
>> > floor of (mostly) incidental material.
>> >
>> > My reach is now for resolving relationships, and my mind is certainly
>> > obliging me.
>> >
>> > One of the best ideas Dennis had -- go complementary with the mind.
>> >
>> > colleen
>> >
>> >
>> > _

Re: [TROM1] don't know who wrote this but ....

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Paul   from Aarre   Nov. 5/'11

Yes, man;   the universe is just one big,  megahuge joke !!
As an anecdote, I remember when I was too uptone at Queen Victoria Public
School in Toronto in the early 1960's.   I was joking and cutting up with a
friend,   and I got reprimanded by the teacher.[?]I got sent to the
principal's office,  and at least on two occasions, got the strap over the
hand as punishment.   I guess I was recognizing it as a joke back then, but
the teacher didn't agree.   Who cares;  she's probably dead by now anyway.
[?]   Wow,  this is really  serious stuff !!

Aarre
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Yes, we are all on the path to getting 'There'.
>
> The statement I am referring to is, "Remember, this physical universe
> is just one big delusion;  the jokes on all of us, and we created the
> joke."
>
> For many years I have been saying to close associates, 'Life is a
> joke.  Don't play it on yourself'.
>
> Paul
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Re: [TROM1] Regarding OTs that smoke

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Paul,   fromAarreNov. 5/'11

The funny thing, is that the OT smoking or not smoking question isn't even
that important to me anymore.  I still haven't made up my mind about 'my
truth' about it,  but the more important point is to me that it isn't
really even that important anymore.  Now that I have TROM, I consider all
OT levels a definite downgrade over a level 5 completion in TROM, and I'm
less 'serious (somber, grave)' than I used to be.   Sometimes I look at the
whole planet, even et's, and anyone else as just a big practical joke.
Sometimes it can get really hilarious.  Just look at all the players, and
the games that they are playing, and it just looks like a big   f--king
chess match anyhow.Do you sometimes think that it's just a big joke
?!   I've seen black become white, and white become black, and I'm
bewildered by all the amusing changes going on.

Your occasionally humourous friend,  Aarre
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:45 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Let's look at it this way.  Is one of the requirements to be OT, not
> to smoke?  Does it even matter if you smoke or don't smoke?  What
> makes not smoking more important than smoking?  Does it matter what a
> body is doing or not doing when it comes to being an OT?  But then is
> the body the OT or the OT the body or none of those.
>
> Please don't take this as an effort to make you wrong.  Just having
> you look at things and expand your viewpoints.
>
> Paul
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Re: [TROM1] He had/has it all wrong

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Sorry, I sent this to tromlist by accident.   Aarre   please disregard.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Aarre Peltomaa wrote:

> Hi Robert,  Nov. 1/'11  Aarre
>
> Per our conversation, here is a viewpoint.   The way it seems to me, if we
> turn off games, we succeed in turning off the mind, and one's case as an
> automatic result of that.  Case is just a symptom of games play (postulate
> versus counterpostulate).
>
> Your friend,  Aarre
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Paul Tipon wrote:
>
>> *
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> 
>> Maybe I'm being generous.  That is up to you to decide.
>>
>> What I know is that Ron did get some things right.  As far as a
>> Bridge out, I believe he went off the rails from the beginning with
>> Dianetics.  It does work for what it does, de-stimulate engrams.  As
>> far as using that as a way out, I think it is very lacking.  And this
>> idea of mine goes all the way through the OT Levels.
>>
>> My thinking is that only specific incidents are addressed.  Whether
>> one has those incidents or not is a major question.  What I see is
>> that with Scn Auditing, one becomes very dependent on having those
>> incidents and no others.  I don't see that everyone does have the
>> same package of incidents.  After all, each of us is quite creative
>> unto ourselves.
>>
>> TROM simply provides one with the tools necessary to eliminate ones
>> re-stimulative incidents from the past, present and the future. TROM
>> is 'one size fits all'.
>>
>> Another thing is that Ron never really solved GPMS.  GPMS are an
>> automaticity that occurs in this Universe, MEST and maybe many
>> others.  When one thinks of a goal (considers before the postulate),
>> one automatically looks at what one has to do to handle and achieve
>> one's goal.  Well guess what   one has just considered the game
>> with all its positive and negative considerations/postulates and
>> their complementary considerations/postulates and now has the
>> complete games package that TROM handles.  Scn does not.
>>
>> You want to have a goal, you want to have a purpose?  Well everything
>> in the MEST Universe has its polar opposite, that's automatic and now
>> you have a game.  Will you be the effect of that games package or
>> not?  Unless you know games like Dennis instructs, I don't see how
>> you will not be.  After all you are playing a game.
>>
>> So it looks to me like one needs TROM Tech to play the game without
>> going the effect and spiraling in to a crash.  One cannot play the
>> game while not playing the game.  One has to be able to not be the
>> effect, not be overwhelmed and also be an 'expert' about games and
>> how to play the games.
>>
>> Thank you, Dennis
>>
>> Paul
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Re: [TROM1] He had/has it all wrong

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Hi Robert,  Nov. 1/'11  Aarre

Per our conversation, here is a viewpoint.   The way it seems to me, if we
turn off games, we succeed in turning off the mind, and one's case as an
automatic result of that.  Case is just a symptom of games play (postulate
versus counterpostulate).

Your friend,  Aarre

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Paul Tipon wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> Maybe I'm being generous.  That is up to you to decide.
>
> What I know is that Ron did get some things right.  As far as a
> Bridge out, I believe he went off the rails from the beginning with
> Dianetics.  It does work for what it does, de-stimulate engrams.  As
> far as using that as a way out, I think it is very lacking.  And this
> idea of mine goes all the way through the OT Levels.
>
> My thinking is that only specific incidents are addressed.  Whether
> one has those incidents or not is a major question.  What I see is
> that with Scn Auditing, one becomes very dependent on having those
> incidents and no others.  I don't see that everyone does have the
> same package of incidents.  After all, each of us is quite creative
> unto ourselves.
>
> TROM simply provides one with the tools necessary to eliminate ones
> re-stimulative incidents from the past, present and the future. TROM
> is 'one size fits all'.
>
> Another thing is that Ron never really solved GPMS.  GPMS are an
> automaticity that occurs in this Universe, MEST and maybe many
> others.  When one thinks of a goal (considers before the postulate),
> one automatically looks at what one has to do to handle and achieve
> one's goal.  Well guess what   one has just considered the game
> with all its positive and negative considerations/postulates and
> their complementary considerations/postulates and now has the
> complete games package that TROM handles.  Scn does not.
>
> You want to have a goal, you want to have a purpose?  Well everything
> in the MEST Universe has its polar opposite, that's automatic and now
> you have a game.  Will you be the effect of that games package or
> not?  Unless you know games like Dennis instructs, I don't see how
> you will not be.  After all you are playing a game.
>
> So it looks to me like one needs TROM Tech to play the game without
> going the effect and spiraling in to a crash.  One cannot play the
> game while not playing the game.  One has to be able to not be the
> effect, not be overwhelmed and also be an 'expert' about games and
> how to play the games.
>
> Thank you, Dennis
>
> Paul
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Re: [TROM1] musicforaarre sent you a video: "- Crop Circles - 2012 MESSAGE TO MANKIND Alien Evolution Kornkreise DNA Hope Love"

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Aarre Peltomaa wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Aarre Peltomaa 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:49 PM, YouTube Service wrote:
>>
>>  * This is an old draft resent;  somehow it didn't get sent.   Aarre*
>> *   I want everyone to have an opportunity to see this !*
>> *   The butterfly crop circle was just about a mile southwest of Goes,
>> in southern Holland.  Experts agree it couln't possibly*
>> *   be human made for soil energies,  grass node expansion on one side
>> resulting in bending the stalk, and the shear size *
>> *   and geometric exactness of details.  The hoax circles look
>> different.  I made permanent case gain after seeing it;  I don't **
>> understate that.  Much invalidation about my place on this planet blew off
>> as I looked at it.   It is sublime !!!*
>>
>> *  Aarre  Oct. 29/'11*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>> *
>>>
>>>[image: YouTube] <http://www.youtube.com/>  help 
>>> center<http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/static.py?page=start.cs>| 
>>> e-mail
>>> options <http://www.youtube.com/account#notifications/events> | report
>>> spam<http://www.youtube.com/email_spam?v=1a&c=_uhlzgEaqD2te-Z7aIclXI9-suLXW94rn9z2Qyhp2GXMk2wA3Z307u_E2KJuNTV-SErlkb0YbxfpQY49oHMLkJYJAN0RuSDOv0N1gU_2JQWYQ1mqAL5lwZNOMn2j72yeZ9QBW2NTq9LwhRi0irwuel4M73Xirl7qATATP2qOr-dVNva59GWOApAQN1SMhMfmJtu8p0amhPCUNnNGIzvs5z0izJvdHtycY194bj5oXLZtGXlAE0mQpgSFoXx--3SBy2-VRA4OTNMCIwJJ-yTi_Jr4uSWlPQpGpIde6OPXdwccnNEmfokMG5oZF4g-ZHZkWUK3-zCd8gtnVPhZw7aOaQdZk_9VAlzuZ06KX1_FrG3zl60Vv0-8Bj1tsrD4ANBL4WIHSM8hE9cCYP7_vHlB6nKgMJoKN-ybycJUCsRhS9pW16Cu5SKmX2ptBqGOwqTUVbyzk_9GkV1BsYk7npJt5V9fgTzDb8TV6iy-zDYk7uGRAp8v41L-WIgnXD_FpcgCuBv4zG_O1Am0r7zdz_BZLrjo0FFEYOB6FZlorr2JwDZZcYgmrci7y2_rvAxIaW6h1chgOL2M3RVcJ2wV_ARbatngDWTpxtzcmhOnpLx9Mu6cMrd8AQ4HcRRNL9QhS_wWRystmK8TSx1el46ukE0Ikx-VVkRoMUX1hOeWWiDRB4pL5lP1ROpnRk56bfqzwKt5RsY8bVVfRfYlIn9K70-teOJNasaYmuH5u2MoQ_0ymYNHHaCvQxDZ1c36RzRs5IbB1BcJF9L3mZI=>
>>>
>>> musicforaarre<http://www.youtube.com/user/musicforaarre?email=share_video_user>has
>>>  shared a video with you on YouTube:
>>>  Oh, my god, July 20/'11 *8:29
>>> minutes into video
>>> *
>>> I started crying / grief line charging intensely for 5 minutes when I
>>> saw the image at 8:29 minutes. I will have to time break(therapy technique)
>>>  this. I am still crying. Please email this to everyone you know. Somebody
>>> loves us !   This is life changing for me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Love, Aarre Peltomaa
>>> peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
>>> (647) 202-7267
>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80aFqxptryY&feature=email>
>>>  - Crop Circles - 2012 MESSAGE TO MANKIND Alien Evolution Kornkreise
>>> DNA Hope Love <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80aFqxptryY&feature=email>
>>>  2012: Lost Continents Civilizations Atlantis Crop Circles Mu Lemuria
>>> Sphinx Ancient Egypt Mayan Calendar Aztec Tiahuanaco Doomsday End of World
>>> nibiru Planet Nephlim Rapture time asteroids pole shift Nostradamus Hadron
>>> Collider CERN Experiment Pyramids Prophecy predictions precession equinox
>>> Moses Ramses Ramases Revelations Armageddon Golden Calf Exodus everybody
>>> dies Prophecy/Predictions
>>>
>>>
>>> new paradigm 2012 shamanism shift cleansing 2012 mother earth climatic
>>> disaster pole shift end time new world new earth hopi prophecy 2012
>>> December Dec 21st 2012 Apocalypse end world Rapture time asteroids
>>> Nostradamus native american calentamiento end of world end of the world as
>>> we know it end of paradigm new paradigm change Extreme Weather Patterns
>>> Maya END OF THE WORLD DOOMS DAY NEW AGE change evoloution shift timewave
>>> zero terence mckenna 2012 sightings nostradamus dimensional shift omega
>>> dedroidify Mayan Calendar Apocalypse Pinchbeck... 
>>> more<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80aFqxptryY&feature=email>
>>>
>>> By the way, did you know you can rent movies from YouTube? Check it out
>>> now: 
>>> youtube.com/movies<http://www.youtube.com/movies?feature=mm_mv_auto_email>
>>> .
>>>
>>>   © 2011 YouTube, LLC
>>> 901 Cherry Ave, San Bruno, CA 94066
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [TROM1] interesting fun piece on EXTERIOR

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Randy, Oct. 29/'11Aarre

It's a battle to catch up with the emails.  Sorry for the tardiness.  The
thetan can never be in the physical universe, but only his creations can.
His creations include the mind, body, brain, physical matter, etc.It
seems to me that the thetan creates his mind out of postulates, and
everything else out of postulates.  It would seem that, because the
physical universe is 'generated with TIPM' out of a thetan's opposing
postulates within the thetan's mind, voila!  The physical universe is
within the thetan's mind as a construct, and nowhere else.  The mind is
senior to the physical universe in other words.  The thetan is a static who
isn't located anywhere.  It seems the thetan mocks up being overwhelmed
because of his reactions to his postulates.  No?   He creates the
'Frankenstein's monster', and then decides to be freaked out when he sees
it.  No?  It seems he must know and be known,  even to himself (flow 0).
If by corrolary, the mind is senior to the physical universe, then it would
seem that the mind, like the thetan that created it wouldn't be located
anywhere.   Energies  'from' the mind are obviously located in the physical
universe, but that doesn't mean that the mind itself is.  Perhaps there are
two basic categories of mind, the postulates which aren't in the physical
universe, and the 'energies, pictures, masses, noise, etc.', which is
located in the physical universe.

Food for thought.

p.s. - the thetan's viewpoint goes exterior to the body, never the thetan
'himself'.  The thetan can never 'go' anywhere, and never has.   Your
viewpoint travels around,  not you !  You create a viewpoint to go
travelling around and having adventures.  You are entertained by it.

I'd love comment on this.

Your friend,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Slim . wrote:

> Perfect agreement is just a complimentary postulate
>
> If a thetan can not be overwhelmed unless he's in the mest universe and
> yet the thetan is not in the mest universe. How is the thetan
> overwhelmed ever ?
>
>
>
> If the mind has no location , where is it?
>
> If there is a present time universe there must be a past time universe..
>
> Where is it?
>
>
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone From: Aarre Peltomaa
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 7:07 PM
> To: The Resolution of Mind list
> Subject: Re: [TROM1] interesting fun piece on EXTERIOR
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
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Re: [TROM1] Re Basic-Basic and Engrammic Chains

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Well done, Colleen,  Oct. 26/'11 Aarre

At first glance, I think you're right on the money !

Aarre

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> "If A then B" is the basic bonding postulate, as I'm listening to Dennis'
> tape re "Bonding" and the subject of relationships.
>
> Can this be used to explain the seeming fixed relationship -- i.e., chains
> -- of (relatd) engrammic material?
>
> For example, in shock processing using R3X methods, I discovered that huge
> chunks of related engrammic material would easily slough off once one
> contacted the basic-basic (postulate set), which occurred after layers of
> charge that made it previously unaccesible were peeled away.
>
> I recently went to basic-basic and won an expanded VP and am mopping the
> floor of (mostly) incidental material.
>
> My reach is now for resolving relationships, and my mind is certainly
> obliging me.
>
> One of the best ideas Dennis had -- go complementary with the mind.
>
> colleen
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] [New post] What Is It We Want?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hello,   I had a massive catharsis as I read this.   I'm getting major case
gain with and without auditing.  We are all brothers and
sisters.   The old paradigms are falling apart much to my rejoice.
Consciousness is hughly increasing.

Love you all,   Aarre  Oct. 22/'11

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:22 PM, 2012 Indy Info wrote:

> **
>   New post on *2012 Indy Info*
>   What Is It
> We Want? by
> Laura Tyco 
>  2011 October 5
>  by Steve Beckow
>
> In
> between stories of the White House selecting its Christmas tree (in October)
> and Dubai’s elite riding a $10 million Lamborghini-like bus, the news anchor
> for CNN, the home of the “best” political news team, tried to wrap her head
> around what OccupyWallStreet wanted.
>
> She tried several approaches and had the best luck with the medical model,
> but even there the “symptoms” she found were so disparate that she gave up
> and turned to frustrating new wildfires breaking out in Austin and a
> shooting spree in California. Who knows these days if both occasions weren’t
> manufactured to take attention away from the protests. Read more of this
> post
>   *Laura Tyco * |
> October 5, 2011 at 18:21 | Tags: Steve 
> Beckow| Categories: 
> Authors/
> Spirituality  | URL:
> http://wp.me/p1szSk-4FX
>
>  
> Comment
>See all 
> comments
>
>  Unsubscribe or change your email settings at Manage 
> Subscriptions.
>
>
> Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser:
> http://2012indyinfo.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/what-is-it-we-want/
>Thanks for flying with WordPress.com 
>
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Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Aarre Peltomaa wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Alexander Graf wrote:
>
>> *
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>> 
>>
>> Thank you Aarre,
>>
>> yes, the student hat is very good. i started it last year and the next
>> thing on the checklist is the first lecture where he talks about different
>> flying technologies etc.
>> But fortunately I never was involved in the church. The RonsOrgs only
>> consist of nice people with good intentions. There is one in Munich and one
>> in Frankfurt a. Main founded by Capt. Bill. In Switzerland lead by Max and
>> Erica Hauri who are great people who always treated me kindly.
>> Four times i attended the camp in les verrieres for hard tr and study
>> tech.
>>
>> what i find strange is that there are OTs that still smoke. maybe they
>> have abilities to control the toxins or have the consideration that the body
>> isnt that important... i dont know :-)
>>
>In my humble opinion,  I think they are up to 'fighting' their
bodies as an enemy.  That isn't a complementary postulate.  Just
   my 'gut' feeling and opinion.

> I think they have issues, need a full glass of red wine
> with vitamin B1 chaser, and the next day they need to do TROM.   There's
> one OT 8,  Class 8 at the Toronto org in Canada who has been senior C/S for
> years now;  I tried to be friendly towards her in my naive, slightly
> obseqious (look that up in the dictionary !)  way .  Her name is Louise
> Erison.   She seemed resentful, and not all all what I thought and OT 8
> should act like.  Pardon, me, but I thought an OT 8 would be compassionate,
> empathetic, willing to pan-determinadly see my viewpoint,   and be at
> least enthusiastic (4.0) on the tone scale !!   She was resentful, and had a
> ser- fac'y 'holier than thou' attitude.  This is extremely contrary on LRH's
> policy letter about clears needing to show a good appearance of what
> clear is.  Forgive me, but I forgot the PL's exact name (was it called 'The
> state of clear'?).   This is extremely out-pr not only for the state of
> clear, but even  more so for the state  of OT.   My only conclusion was
> that she was sitting on massive witholds of long duration that she
> couldn't talk about;  in other words, what's called a 'missed withold
> phenomenom'.   Maybe she didn't get out of the level what she was
> promised to get;   I wouldn't be surprised at all.   For fear that you may
> state that I'm nattering also, which I may be,   she is not a friendly
> buddy at all !  Look up perfunctory in the dictionary, and you'll know what
> I mean.  I love cheerful, warm people in the tone of cheerfulness (3.5)
> or above;  that makes my world turn.  That 'OT 8'   isn't it !!
>


> and yes, i experienced OTs with compulsions. compulsive talker.  Does he
>> need to get his level 0 (communications release)
>> flat ? !   (lol !)   [?]
>
>

>
>> but as i said, all nice trustworthy people. much different than
>> churchies.  Great !
>>
>> i have a hard time on level 2 but every session is a progress. i dont fall
>> back, no win is ever lost. an hour RI then im okay. nothing can stop me to
>> go on. not even me :)) if i try i´ll kick my butt. just kidding... can
>> anyone tell me where i am? :-)
>> Your have me laughing,  that's where your are !   Thank you so much for
>> giving me some extra levity.  If we can laugh at our
>>
>> silliness, I think we are half way there !!   Remember, this physical
>> universe is just one big delusion;  the jokes on all of us, and
>>
>> we created the joke.  [?]I'll attest to that! [?]  Yes, I feel great !! [?]
>>
>

> i dont need my mind anymore. anyone wants to buy it?  I don't know if I
>> have the money to buy it;  we have stores in Canada
>> called 'Dollarama';  maybe you could sell it there for $ 1.50.  Some of
>> the prices have gone up !
>>
>> I'm trying to buy a life;  do you know where I could buy one?   Dollarama
>> doesn't have them, not even for $1.75 !  Damn !  [?]
>>
>

> You're ok, Alex.
>> you guys already feel like family!
>>
>> alex
>>
>>
>> 2011/10/23 Aarre Peltomaa 
>>
>>> *
>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>>> ***

Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Leo !Oct. 22/'11Aarre

It is wonderful.   Our understandings (plural) are exponentially building up
on top of the understandings of others that came before us.   LRH  learned
from eastern teachings, Freud, and Commander 'Snake' Thompson.   And people
like Dennis H. Stephens (TROM),  Robert Ducharme (R3X and dichotomies),
John Galusha/Mike Goldstein (Idenics), Bill Robertson (Ron's Org Bridge),
Superscio (The Pilot / Ken Ogger),  and Excalibur Revisited, The Book of
Truth ( Geoffrey C. Filbert), document this.  Our spiritual knowledge is
growing  EXPONENTIALLY ! I want to do TROM the most, because it is free
of financial cost 95% of the time, and addresses the postulates/goals which
created all this mess/excitement in the first place.  We created it all, and
now we can uncreate it all to celebrate our causitiveness over the whole
deal.  Only TROM, as far as I know, can erase the mind to a total zero.
That *really*,* really* appeals to me !  I created my mind, so that I can
uncreate it.  Even spiritually aware people on "2012 Indy Info"  know that
some big changes are occuring, although they don't have any auditing tech,
per se.  AWARENESS IS INCREASING !

your friend,   Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267
p.s.  I was German in my past life;  can you forgive me ?  Just being
humourous.  [?]

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Leo Swart  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> There is nothing  much "wrong" with LRH's tach. It is extensive aand
> requires a lot of study and experience and judgement etc in its aplication,
> but given that, the results to ge obtained make it all immensely worthwhile.
> It is a body of work which no one has ever come close to equalling in either
> its depth of understanding of the human condition or ts value/ Having said
> that, one also needs to recognaise that others have extended its usefulness
> way beyond what LRH himself imagined.
>
> Leo
>
> --
> *From:* "trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org" 
> *To:* trom@lists.newciv.org
> *Sent:* Monday, 3 October 2011 1:00 AM
> *Subject:* Trom Digest, Vol 87, Issue 1
>
> Send Trom mailing list submissions to
> trom@lists.newciv.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. what is wrong about LRH tech? (Alexander Graf)
>   2. Re: what is wrong about LRH tech? (Pete McLaughlin)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 01:19:47 +0200
> From: Alexander Graf 
> Subject: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
> To: trom@lists.newciv.org
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Trommers,
>
> just a question thats on my mind: what is wrong about LRH-tech? not the
> application by the church, just the tech.
>
> and, are there any other germans on this list besides leo?
>
> yours
> alex
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20111002/48d6316d/attachment-0001.html
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 17:00:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Pete McLaughlin 
> Subject: Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
> To: The Resolution of Mind list 
> Message-ID:
> <1317513609.81062.yahoomail...@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Alex
> ? In my limited experience with LRH tech which amounts to auditing up to
> life repair (a minor level below the grades) and a little experience with
> metered coaduiting, I found that the tech is workable and does get results.
>
> ? My problem with the LRH approach is that it requires a separate auditor
> to make it work. I get into games conditions with the auditor so make poor
> progress with LRH tech. Theoretically the auditor and c/s should have
> handled this but the reality was i made life difficult for them because of
> my compulsive games playing.
>
> To me TROM is excellent because it is entirely up to me what progress I
> m

Re: [TROM1] Moving to 5th Dimension

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Wow !!
Passed on to me, and hopefully on to all of you.  Oct. 22/'11

Thank you so much Flemming;   I couldn't think of anything that you stated
that I could or need to disagree with.  What an awesome
explanation.Yes, we are due to go to the 5th density from the 3rd, and I
have more reality every day on that.

Thank you so very much,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:

> http://www.lightlink.com/archive/homer/ff3.memo
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Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Alexander Graf wrote:

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> 
>
> Thank you Aarre,
>
> yes, the student hat is very good. i started it last year and the next
> thing on the checklist is the first lecture where he talks about different
> flying technologies etc.
> But fortunately I never was involved in the church. The RonsOrgs only
> consist of nice people with good intentions. There is one in Munich and one
> in Frankfurt a. Main founded by Capt. Bill. In Switzerland lead by Max and
> Erica Hauri who are great people who always treated me kindly.
> Four times i attended the camp in les verrieres for hard tr and study tech.
>
>
> what i find strange is that there are OTs that still smoke. maybe they have
> abilities to control the toxins or have the consideration that the body isnt
> that important... i dont know :-)
>
I think they have issues, need a full glass of red wine with vitamin B1
chaser, and the next day they need to do TROM.   There's
one OT 8,  Class 8 at the Toronto org in Canada who has been senior C/S
for years now;  I tried to be friendly towards her in my
naive, slightly obseqious (look that up in the dictionary !)  way .  Her
name is Louise Erison.   She seemed resentful, and not all
all what I thought and OT 8 should act like.  Pardon, me, but I thought
an OT 8 would be compassionate, empathetic, willing to
pan-determinadly see my viewpoint,   and be at least enthusiastic (4.0)
on the tone scale !!   She was resentful, and had a ser-
fac'y 'holier than thou' attitude.  This is extremely contrary on LRH's
policy letter about clears needing to show a good appearance
of what clear is.  Forgive me, but I forgot the PL's exact name.   This
is extremely out-pr not only for the state of clear, but even
more so for the state  of OT.   My only conclusion was that she was
sitting on massive witholds of long duration that she couldn't
talk about;  in other words, what's called a 'missed withold
phenomenom'.   Maybe she didn't get out of the level what she was
promised to get;   I wouldn't be surprised at all.   For fear that
you may state that I'm nattering also, which I may be,   she is not a
friendly buddy at all !  Look up perfunctory in the dictionary, and
you'll know what I mean.














> and yes, i experienced OTs with compulsions. compulsive talker.
>
> but as i said, all nice trustworthy people. much different than churchies.
>
> i have a hard time on level 2 but every session is a progress. i dont fall
> back, no win is ever lost. an hour RI then im okay. nothing can stop me to
> go on. not even me :)) if i try i´ll kick my butt. just kidding... can
> anyone tell me where i am? :-)
> i dont need my mind anymore. anyone wants to buy it?
>
> you guys already feel like family!
>
> alex
>
>
> 2011/10/23 Aarre Peltomaa 
>
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>>
>> Hi Alex,Oct. 22/'11 Aarre
>>
>> Of course, only the pluspoints (rightnesses),  and not the outpoints
>> (wrongnesses) will do us any good.
>>
>> A short list per my opinion:
>>
>> Pluspoints;
>>
>> - study tech really works excellently.  I did the Student Hat course, and
>> had excellent results.  I use the tech everyday.  Includes the
>> tech for clearing up the meanings of words;  excellent technology.  No one
>> else has this apparently.
>> - introduced the subject and possibility of being spiritual beings to
>> those who didn't have a clue, like I didn't in 1974, when I first was
>> contacted in Washington, D.C. to take the communication course.  It was an
>> entrance point for me, so should be acknowledged heavily for it's first
>> illumination of spirituality to me, and others.
>> - admin tech.  much sensible data.
>> - ethics conditions.  invaluable and needed by everyone.
>> - data evaluation course.  excellent tech on finding the 'why' (the reason
>> for something).
>> - objectives processes.  like CCH's and others.  really help to extrovert
>> a being's viewpoint to outwards.
>> - Purification Rundown (program).   really worked to get toxins and
>> radiation out of my body, and free up my attention.
>> - Communication Formula and Cycle.  allows sane communications between
>> beings.  I've never seen it stated so well anywhere else.
>> - an introduction to the mind with 'Dianet

Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hi Alex,Oct. 22/'11 Aarre

Of course, only the pluspoints (rightnesses),  and not the outpoints
(wrongnesses) will do us any good.

A short list per my opinion:

Pluspoints;

- study tech really works excellently.  I did the Student Hat course, and
had excellent results.  I use the tech everyday.  Includes the
tech for clearing up the meanings of words;  excellent technology.  No one
else has this apparently.
- introduced the subject and possibility of being spiritual beings to those
who didn't have a clue, like I didn't in 1974, when I first was contacted in
Washington, D.C. to take the communication course.  It was an entrance point
for me, so should be acknowledged heavily for it's first illumination of
spirituality to me, and others.
- admin tech.  much sensible data.
- ethics conditions.  invaluable and needed by everyone.
- data evaluation course.  excellent tech on finding the 'why' (the reason
for something).
- objectives processes.  like CCH's and others.  really help to extrovert a
being's viewpoint to outwards.
- Purification Rundown (program).   really worked to get toxins and
radiation out of my body, and free up my attention.
- Communication Formula and Cycle.  allows sane communications between
beings.  I've never seen it stated so well anywhere else.
- an introduction to the mind with 'Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental
Health', which opened the mind up for millions;  although
TROM is far more simple and easy to run, and more far-reaching in results.

etc. etc.

Outpoints;

- OT 3 level is supposed to be so difficult, but Dennis says that  it only
applies to people who think that they have a 'haunted mind' with demons and
implants in it.  Dennis downplays the importance of implants, and has a few
remedies for them in the tapes.

- too much money;  $300,000 to go spiritually free?  OT VII's that I
witnessed still have minds and aberrations.  Anita Warren paid
   $100,000 to get her OT Eligibility, only to be put on endless Security
Checks.  She said enough, and left the church.

- too much time talking to and kissing up to the ethics officer.

- threats of being kicked out if one doesn't do it the Scientology way.

- OSA ( The Office of Special Affairs ), of which I was a member from 1985 -
1988.   It is now like a paranoid police organization, not
not like an organization promoting spiritual freedom.  One member called
Joe, lied to me when he told me that I stole his harmonica when I was on
staff there and living in the same room number 626 of the main building that
he lived in.  He's gone 'bleeping' nuts !

- too much damn complexity of auditing tech.  so many rundowns and
correction lists, and lists to correct the correction lists !   Volumes and
volumes of data.   Dennis' manual is less than 200 pages long.  Lafayette
Ronald Hubbard once said that complexity is a symptom of non-confront.  LRH
didn't confront the simplicity and power of postulates in their raw form.
They create everything
in the physical universe, and any other universe.  As Dennis said, he was
close, but didn't make it.  Dennis did make it !  Listen to Dennis' lectures
on this.

- got to go downtown, and be on time, instead of doing it in your own
space.   office buildings cost a lot of money to maintain, and we in TROM
don't have any.

- the technical bulletins and policy letters called 'Safeguarding
Technology' and 'Keeping Scientology Working' are suppressive to the extent
that they don't allow any further development by anyone other than LRH.  He
dropped his body in 1986, so he doesn't write any more bulletins.  Can we
assume that LRH was perfect and that his tech was perfect.  No.  People have
been on NOTS
(New Era Dianetics for OT's ) for years and years, just as Dennis stated.
Wasting time handling implants, when you should be
handling the postulates/goals that created the implants in the first place
is mostly a waste of time.  Very entertaining and interesting, but how
wasteful of time and money.

etc., etc.,

Thanks, your friend,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

- David Miscavage runs the church like a dictator.  Freedom of expression
isn't allowed.




On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Alexander Graf wrote:

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>
> Hi Trommers,
>
> just a question thats on my mind: what is wrong about LRH-tech? not the
> application by the church, just the tech.
>
> and, are there any other germans on this list besides leo?
>
> yours
> alex
>
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Re: [TROM1] more on TimeBreaking

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Paul,   Oct. 15/'11  Aarre

What an awesome analysis !Good stuff.

Aarre Peltomaa

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

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> As Dennis has said, on Level 2 comparisons of ‘then’ and ‘now’ become
> automatic.  And as I have stated in the past, I have TimeBroke
> throughout this lifetime, it was automatic.  Another thing I have
> said is that I would time break the future.  I want to say a little
> more about that.
>
> Lets start off by also noting that Dennis has said that one cannot
> view across time.  When one pulls up a ‘then’, he re-mocks up that
> facsimile to view.  Let’s now take the idea that one can mock up a
> facsimile of the future.  Lets take a simple example of that.
>
> Mock up that tomorrow you will have your favorite cake for lunch.
> Get the full action of biting, chewing, savoring and swallowing that
> piece of cake.  That was pretty easy, huh.  You had a very
> pleasurable ‘then’ to TimeBreak.  Well if you didn’t have a ‘then’,
> you could mock up tomorrow at lunch having that piece of cake.  I’m
> sure you have done this many times before.  It’s called planning for
> the future.  The ‘future’ and‘now’ have just been TimeBroken.  If you
> want you can create the importance for tomorrow of eating that cake
> tomorrow and TimeBreak against ‘now’ have some control over your
> future and I bet you will have that favorite piece of cake for lunch
> tomorrow.  If doing that is a really really important ‘future’ for
> tomorrow, it will happen.  Interesting, huh.
>
> Now lets take the opposite.  You know you are in for a fantastic
> treat at a world renown French restaurant.  Uh oh, you know they are
> going to have escargot (snails, cooked of course, not raw.  Glad I
> told you that, right.).  You can’t stand the idea let alone the
> sight.  Now what?  You wind up at the restaurant and your partner is
> having luscious escargot with a chilled glass of Chablis.  Each
> morsel being gently chewed and rolled in the mouth, all flavors being
> experienced to the hilt.  Um.  You wind up in utter disgust
> and literally throw up at the table, not moving quickly enough to
> grab your napkin and make a hasty retreat to the rest room.  You wind
> up never wanting to see that dinner partner again for various
> innumerable  reasons.  Too bad there went a great meal, relationship
> and perhaps a very happy chapter to your life.
>
> So lets look at that for TimeBreaking.  Well you may not have a known
> incident of eating escargot or being reviled by the idea in the past,
> so what do you do?  No ‘then’.  Well you mock it up ‘future’ and
> TimeBreak it throwing in all sorts of counter this and that about
> escargot.  Voila!  You are now cured and can have a great time with a
> partner of choice at a fantastic French restaurant.  The world of
> livingness and happiness has just been expanded even with a new happy
> pleasurable ‘then’ moment to remember.
>
> Remember, Dennis said all this was only natural.
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Re: [TROM1] interesting fun piece on EXTERIOR

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Very interesting,  Paul !  Oct. 14/'11Aarre

May I also venture to say that the thetan isn't in the physical universe.
He doesn't have a location, as he is not composed of matter,
energy, space, and time.  He creates those things.  He is a static.  He puts
a viewpoint, mind, body, etc. into the physical universe, but none of those
things are 'him'.   It's approximately analogous to looking via a camera
that is located in another room (your viewpoint)  to view things, but 'you'
aren't there in the other room.  You put up viewpoints whereever you please,
maybe more than one at a time.  I love the beautiful simplicity of this
concept.

Thanks,   Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-2767

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:06 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

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> I too wanted to clarify the difference of using MEST eyes vs. Theta
> perception and knowingness.
>
> Let’s first look at the MEST looking.  MEST is emanating waves and
> reflecting particles and waves.  These actions are picked up by the
> eye mechanism and create a signal that is transmitted to the brain.
> MEST seeing also has a perception of time which is motion.  Even in
> still objects there is a moment to moment picture with which is
> classified as, time is changing.
>
> Theta looking in the case of TimeBreaking, is Theta looking at
> facsimiles.  Facsimiles can have motion or no motion.  They certainly
> are not emanating particles or waves and are not seen by or through
> one’s eyes.  They may or may not have motion.  Whether they have
> motion in them or not there is no time passing that they reflect in
> their motion other than, it took time for a facsimile action to
> occur.  If there is a time element taken from the motion, it will
> have to be in the context of, what was the time for or of a sequence
> then.  Because the Thetan has manufactured these facsimiles when they
> occurred and is manufacturing them now, there may be a lot of missing
> elements but the Thetan only has to put them there for them to be
> there.  They are not there on their own.  Another is they will not be
> solid or what one can call real.  They have no reality other than to
> the Thetan for they are not MEST and do not fall under the definition
> of reality.  There is where the Thetan can have his reality really
> mixed up.
>
> The definition of reality here is that which is agreed upon in the
> MEST Universe by two or more Thetans.  Interesting huh.  So if there
> is not a perfect agreement then MEST is not as solid as one may have
> thought, huh.  Do you see how it is possible for one to start to go
> off the rails?  At least it can be said that there is not perfect
> reality because no two MEST viewpoints can occupy the same spot.  So
> you say Theta viewpoints can!  Well that’s true but you still may not
> have perfect agreement.  For now you are having Theta viewpoints and
> obviously not MEST eyeball viewpoints.  Is MEST going even further
> from solid into liquid?  Careful you don’t get to the vapor stage.
> Things are not as solid as one thought they were and the agreement,
> the reality is starting to get a little thin and narrow too, huh!
>
> Theta can also look at MEST and in doing so, (not using eyeballs)
> would it not be the same as looking at facsimiles?
>
> So one needs to know this.  This gives understanding to what is
> happening in TimeBreaking.  Which truly is the more ‘real’, the more
> ‘solid’.  Careful now, that you don’t have an emergency and have to
> call someone into the room to get reality back.  Just joking.  I must
> say that all depends on how you yourself want to judge what is real
> for you.
>
> So there you have it briefly.  There are two types of looking.  Both
> done differently.  Now the question becomes, who or what is doing
> both of those lookings?  I leave that for you do discover and know.
> I simply went briefly into the Tech of looking.  There are several
> distinct ways of doing that.  This should give you fluidity over both
> lookings and the right to choose which is more solid and real.  But
> realize that one does not always have to outrank the other.  Yes, the
> ranking can be switched back and forth too.  That is entirely up to
> you.  This kinda puts reality in several possible places.
>
> You might say you now have a new freedom.  Use it wisely, use it for
> fun.  Also see that a reality of others cannot be enforced or
> changed.  Don’t bother trying to do so, they have to do it.  I
> believe you will also find this as the four items in Dennis’ Ethics
> 

Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 86, Issue 2

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Hello Alessandro, Oct. 2/'11  Aarre

This put a big smile on my face;   thanks so much for this !

Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 8:55 AM,  wrote:

> *
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> 
>
> Hello,
> I also have been in SCN,then I left it because I was disappointed,I had a
> sort of win reading EXCALIBUR of Filbert,
> and now I am in TROM and is fantastic. Level six is great, when you deal
> with breaking "binding postulates",you get an idea on "how to go to hell".
> I don't have any idea about the ending of level 5 of Trom.Maybe it will
> never ends.
> But If we speak about the human vehicle , we should get the ability to
> leave it at will.
> For sure I have had bigger wins , somatics have disappeared,and if look at
> SCN it is like to look at a caveman.
> Thanks to Ron for giving us a starting point,but that is all.Now SCN is the
> way to hell.
> We Trommers should practice it ed evolve it to the next step.
> happy tromming
> alessandro.
>
>
> Il giorno 14/set/11, alle ore 14:00, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org ha
> scritto:
>
> New to TROM.
>
>
> Prior to this, I read a lot of Electra and Geoffrey Filbert.  I was
>
> also in Scn for 20yrs and then did nothing for about 10yrs.
>
>
> Some mention was made of TROM several times and I finally decided to
>
> see what it was all about.  Funny thing, before Scn I used to time
>
> break on my own.  For many years I just naturally did it to prepare
>
> for things in life that I knew were coming up and also handling those
>
> things that I had some backoff about.  So actually timebroke future
>
> events with objects in present and the past.  Many times MAGIC occurred.
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [TROM1] New to TROM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Welcome Paul,   Oct. 2/'11

I know you'll have a lot of fun and case gain using TROM.   It's so simple
to do, and basic to life.  Well done !

Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Paul Tipon wrote:

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> 
> Simple question.  I am using a write up that I got off of the
> internet and it says the RI commands are (my choice of the alternatives)
>
> a.  Create an importance.
>
> b.  Have another create an importance.
>
> Have these been updated?  If so, by whom?  And if not by Dennis
> himself, a little background supporting the change.
>
> Thanks, Paul
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Re: [TROM1] RE Importances

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Colleen,
well done !
Aarre



On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

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> 
>
> HI Colleen
> nice realization
>
> Pete
>
> --
> *From:* Colleen Peltomaa 
> *To:* trom@lists.newciv.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11:18 PM
> *Subject:* [TROM1] RE Importances
>
> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Took Dennis at his word re importances being a major button and ran
> alternate commands, "Give me an importance""Tell me about it"; "Give me
> a no importance""Tell me about it", which got me to bring up a this
> lifetime scene for timebreaking.  A compulsion to be valuable and thus
> important dropped off after timebreaking the scene and its key-in.  Ran RI
> afterward.
>
> colleen
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] test

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Pete, July 26/'11

I got the test.  Thanks.

Aarre

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

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>
> test
>
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Re: [TROM1] German Translation Available at tromhelp.com

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Well done, Leo !  July 21/'11
You are awesome !
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *
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> 
>
> Hi All
>   I am pleased to announce that our fellow TROMer Leo Faulhaber has
> translated the TROM manual into German.  He is kindly making the translation
> available to everyone by download from the tromhelp.com website. You will
> find the translation at tromhelp.com at the bottom of the Services Tab.
>
> Thank you Leo.
>
> If you have questions about the translation you can reach Leo via the trom
> list or directly at leo.faulha...@gmail.com
> If you have trouble downloading the files please contact me.
>
> Keep on TROMing
> Pete
>
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Re: [TROM1] Fw: Welcome to TROM

[Aarre Peltomaa]

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Welcome,  Sean !
I think you will find yourself at home with this technology.  It's
100's of times more simple than Scientology counselling, which I also had
many years of.
Friendship,  Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267


On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Pete McLaughlin <
pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> wrote:

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> 
>
>
> - Forwarded Message -
> *From:* SC 
> *To:* Pete McLaughlin 
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 10, 2011 4:17 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Welcome to TROM
>
> Hi TRON members my name is Sean I had previously considerable experience in
> Scientology which inspite of evolving into a horror story, I got a lot out
> of (by also being able to see it's failures too). I'm keen on science and
> the relationship of awareness to the physical and other people. BTW Idenics
> by Mike Goldstein and John Galusha is also a great book on the
> mind/consciousness that anyone here would be worthy of reading.
>
> I'm currently reading the main book re TROM and I like it.
>
> Regards,
> Sean
>
> On 10 July 2011 23:43, Pete McLaughlin wrote:
>
> HI
>  Welcome to the TROM email list.
>
> You start on this list in moderated status which means i will check you
> emails before posting them to the list.  You can write an email introducing
> yourself to the list members after which i will remove you from moderated
> status.
>
> Be sure to visit our sister site www.tromhelp.com where i have placed all
> of the known Dennis Stephens text and audio files and a number of other
> interesting things.  All of the files at tromhelp.com are public domain or
> posted with permission of the author so you are encouraged to back up these
> files to your hard drive and give copies to your friends
>
> Ask questions.  There are a number of knowledgeable members to the list who
> only contribute when asked a question.  Give them the oppurtunity to help by
> posing a question to the list.
>
> Keep on TROMing
>
> Pete
> List Moderator
>
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Wins with CCH4

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> As I continue through the CCH4 I notice some rather rude and rough
> low-toned valences coming off at the beginning.  Continuously there has been
> layers of unconsciousness and yawns until finally I hit a spot wherein I
> realized that the unconsciousness somehow served me and was somehow also a
> sensation to experience.  Lots of computations revealed to myself.
>
> In between the sessions I did start to notice more and more that I could be
> in present time better without that fog of unconsciousness that I am so used
> to experiencing.
>
> I still have a difficulty in spanning my attention units out into a wide
> sphere of my environment, and I still have a problem handling too much
> motion, but I do notice that it is improving.
>
> After hours of running to date, I finally got to the point where I decided
> that I could get control and just decide to be awake and aware instead of
> unconscious.  It could be more a conscious decision now.
>
> In last night's session we ran into a "strong" valence and I was able to
> recognize it for what it is and let it run its course.  At the end of the
> session I saw that it would be no problem and no concern for me to duplicate
> the auditor's motions "forever".  In fact, "forever" seemed like nothing to
> me, so I guess boredom got flattened along with some other things too.
> Suspect more of the strong valence needs to be run out.
>
> It appears that running the CCH4 this way takes apart a long-time strung
> together what LRH called in "The Clearing Congress", the "synthetic
> personality".
>
> I never audited through the Grades or any serious TRs courses, etc.  Just
> two years of R3x and so I really appreciate what I am experiencing now.
>
> The "capper" of course is completely running out the To Know games matrix.
>
> This morning I woke up at dawn very wide awake and I realized that all of
> my fears are imagined as I scanned the things that I could be afraid of, had
> been afraid of, and I wanted to somehow help others to see this as a fact
> too.
>
> This is complementary with my timebreaking sessions running out junior
> packages and lessening importances and compulsions and getting a bigger
> picture of life.Well done !
>

The usual disclaimers:  Running CCH4 this way may not produce the same
results for others.
   Everybody has a different postulate structure.  I seem to have gotten
more gain out of doing TR's than from Objectives, although
   I got excellent results from both.  I told you about my viewpoint going
partially exterior while on TR0 with Jim Faloney.  It'll be
   interesting to see how you can do TR0 after the CCH's.  Either way, it's
all good.  One pragmatic test would be to see how long
   you can just be there without doing your grocery lists, et al.   With
more TROM, it all gets better towards simplicity. (Sorry, I'm
   getting too discursive).

   Love you always,   Aarre

>
> best,
>
> colleen
>
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Re: [TROM1] Hello Kira

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Welcome to the TROM train out of compulsive games rides  :-)
>
> Dennis refers beginners to the CCHs.  I just saw a video of Max Hauri's
> wife and she also spoke about the CCHs.
>
> I am fortunate in having a very astute TROM coach who is now running me
> quite thoroughly through all of the CCHs, '50's style, and not the glib
> "standardized" version of ending off at a cognition and going on to the
> next.
>
That is most intense;  I love it.

>
> A cog might be "end of session" but not end of process until there is no
> more change.
>
> Run this way, no fixed identity remains, no stones unturned, and we are now
> addressing some of the more subtle and able ones as the grosser ones fall
> away.
>
   I see the results;   we are far more mutually tractible to converse
with.   I'm convinced.

>
> I also in the meantime do my timebreaking sessions, with increasing
> progress towards the goal I passionately share with you.
>
> We are coaching a very strong and able being right now, and that one is
> making huge personal gains the likes I have never seen with other clearing
> processes.
>
   You really have my interest;  sounds like the one in New York City.  Any
one who can keep some sanity in the Big Apple has my
admiration;  please tell her that.

>
> The great treasure of TROM is finally having the correct graphical matrix,
> mostly "user friendly"  :-)   Correct.
>
> TROM on
>
> colleen
> USA
>
>Love,  Aarre

>
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Re: [TROM1] Homer's Adjunct to TROM Writeup

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hello lovable being,  May 31/'11

I had sprained my left calf on Friday about 3:30 pm, but it is healing
nicely;  Doug worked with me today (he did the work), and we did a total of
$290.   Tomorrow is booked as a $305 day (2 jobs).  This is unsticking the
finance flow also, since he likes to do the physical work, and I like to do
the admin/marketing/sales.

This link from Ithica Homer is awesome, however, it is still for
Scientologists in Scientologese, and it only talks about the core of levels
4 & 5, and nothing about pure timebreaking of levels 2 & 3, nor about level
1.  Nothing mentioned about RI, which will be the most important link for
new people who weren't Scientologists.   Is this 'THE WRITEUP' from Homer
that you were speaking of, or is there another.   This is an excellent
refresher for me, and helps me check my knowledge, but this still isn't a
primer for new people.

Love,  Aarre

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Colleen Peltomaa wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> ESMB link here:
> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?3170-Adjunct-to-TROM-thread&highlight=adjunct+trom
>
> Snippet quote:
>
> " [TROM] is somewhat complex but well worth knowing. It is pure dynamite to
> audit.
>
> Those of you with deadly chronic physical conditions, headaches, back
> pains, spinal twisteroos, like I have will certainly want to wade through
> this material and give it a chance."
>
> Personally, the only reason it would be "complex" would be that it is pure
> simple, thus not easy for people with a lot of "mind" to duplicate.  CCHs
> help with that.  I find it neither overly simplistic, nor overly
> complicated.  The matrix is no more complicated than other games matrices I
> have studied, for example, the Myers-Briggs personality type matrix.  And
> what about those zodiac matrices?
>
> The only data I got hung up on was when I ridged up on the Boolean
> algebraic logic  :-)
>
> cheers!
> colleen
>
>
>
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[TROM1] more acuity/awareness of peoples's emotional tones

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Hi friends, May
27/'11

If you've read about emotional tones by L.Ron Hubbard, you would know that
the emotional tone level of covert hostility (1.1) is insidious.
Yesterday, at my bank, I saw a very well disguised 1.1.   I felt the 1.1
more than I even saw or heard it from the teller.  Unfortunately, I went a
bit out of present time (opposing postulates), and I buggered up my
password.  I changed it there,  and now I'm having problems entering my
online banking, and have to go to the bank and reset the password, without a
1.1 teller this time.  Note that this doesn't excuse my resonsibility and my
postulates for going out of PT, but it does explain that some people will
trigger your opposing postulates more easily than other people will.
That's why it's better to  avoid them until you finish your level five, and
don't react to them anymore;   since at that time, you'll have no opposing
postulates to react to them.
My main point is that I'm now better able to detect those upsetting people
than I used to be before TROM, and that I'm getting better in my survival
instincts.

Thanks,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267
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Re: [TROM1] Definition of Importance

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Hi Leo,  May 17/'11

Sounds good to me from my limited understanding.  I guess the pragmatic
approach is that the definition is correct for you or anyone else if it
works for you in your sessions;  does it work for you ok?
Hindrance of knowingness or enforcement of un-knowingness has enforcement of
knowingness at it's base, doesn't it?  If you want to look at a painting,
and I put a cover over the painting, am I not forcing you to know me as a
being that is covering the painting from you?  I'm creating an effect for
you to know, am I not?

Thanks,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Leo Faulhaber wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
> Hello everyone
>
> I  seem to have some difficulty with Dennis' definition of importance which
> is "Enforcement of knowingness". For me importance is also "Hindrance of
> knowigness" or "Enforcement of not-knowingness".
>
> So I made up the following definition of importance for myself which is "a
> more or less strong conviction that someone or something should be or not be
> something, do or not do something, have or not have something, know or not
> know something, experience or not experience something".
>
> What do you think about this?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Leo Faulhaber
>
>
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[TROM1] Handling the Fukushima radiation.

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hello friends in TROMland,April
25/'11


*  LET'S HANDLE THE FUKUSHIMA RADIATION BEFORE IT HANDLES US*

As most of you, pollution, including radiation pollution can make case gain
from auditing reduced;   We can't afford a slowdown.  We need a speedup of
our casegains, especially since we have the most efficient technology on
this planet to get us out of all this mess.  Most people are zombie-like in
their acquiescence to middle-class status quo, and listen to the media and
medicos to tell them what to believe about physical and mental health.  Do
you remember what L. Ron Hubbard said about the effectiveness of Book One
Dianetic auditing in Phoenix, Arizona being reduced because of the radiation
coming out of the Nevada nuclear test sites?

Anyhow, check out the below mentioned site;  I consider it quite ethical
data.  The Fukushima nuclear plant damage radiation is coming our way thanks
to the winds, and we need to take B1 (thiamine hydrochroride),  potassium
Iodine (or seaweed), bentonite clay, zeolites, and of course Niacin (the
skin-flushing type).  I did the Purification Program in the Church of
$cientology in Toronto in the early 1980's,  and need to get the money and
time to do it again in the Freezone, but until that happens, I am taking
Niacin with meals (500mg.) to get a prickly skin-flush.  I will increase
that, per the modus on the 'Purif', when this doesn't have an effect with a
meal anymore.  After that I will increase the amounts with a meal, until no
more effect, and then increase again, over and over as such.  Then when I
can't get an effect with a meal at a very high dosage, I'll start taking a
lower amount without a meal, and up that as above-mentioned until I am
'flat' on Niacin without any more radiation flush.  We've got to get the
radiation effects out, and I don't think we need a Purif In Charge at
Scientology Church to give us permission to do so.  One of our freedoms of
being in the Freezone is that we can give ourselves permission.  Let's use
what data we have, and look out for our clique to protect ourselves from the
insanity going on in this world.  I guess we should steal into a church
'org' somewhere and get a copy of 'Clear Body, Clear Mind'  to finetune this
technique, or get a copy another way.  I know we also have to take other
vitamins while boosting Niacin, to balance them off.  I'm not a Purif I/C,
and never took the course, but that's not going to stop me from doing
something to protect myself from the radiation.

As usual, I'm open to input on this.

Your friend,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

As radioactive fallout skyrockets, NaturalNews advises readers to consider
precautionary doses of iodine, bentonite clay and zeolites

Learn more:
http://www.naturalnews.com/032179_Fukushima_zeolites.html#ixzz1Ka5cWlPJ
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[TROM1] some cognitions with RI

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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Hello TROMers,  April 23/'11

I've noticed strange things happening on my RI before level 3 timebreaking
proper.

- I do RI, and overwhelms pop up.  I was doing it, and I got a picture of
having my legs shackled as in being a slave, with pressure squeezing on the
ankles.  I admired the picture, had a cognition on it's connection to mass
in my lower legs and walking toes pointing out.  I did timebreaking on it
and felt fine on it.
I seem to lately have a lot of overwhelm situations pop up with my RI;  I'm
not consciously searching for this stuff, but it just pops up.  All I was
trying to do is be creative, with making brilliant colours, strange shapes,
machinations, etc. that feels like fun to create all around in a 360 degree
sherical as well as possible.

- A recent email from a friend triggered me to try something ad lib;  I
created a 'terminal' over at the shop building 400 feet or so to my east
(call it 'A').  I created another at the
live-in trailer 100 feet to my south (call it 'B').  I was just a 'kid
playing', so I created a flow from 'B' through my body to 'A', and then
changed the direction.  It was just a mocked up flow of energy of whatever
kind that you want, but kind of mild.  Shortly, I noticed that when I did
'A' through my body to 'B', I got 2 audible bops in my left ear.  Only in
that one direction.  I cycled it, and it happened again, this time with 3
audible bops.   I did it over and over until about 4 bops were heard in my
left ear.  Shortly after, it decreased to 2 bops again, and then
disappeared.   The mind is a strange playtoy of amusement, isn't it ?  I
felt fine afterwards.  I don't know exactly what postulate(s) created this,
but I guess that doesn't matter;  it's all good fun.

Thanks,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267
It's been quiet in TROMland lately;  does anyone want to say anything ?
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Re: [TROM1] RE TROM Objectives

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Randy,   April 14/'11

Wow !   I printed off the email (see below) at Kinko's, got it expanded to 1
1/2' X 2', and laminated that copy of the below.  I bought thumbtacks, and
tacked it to the wall above my head.  I'm going to read it everyday !!

My hat's off to you;  oh, I don't wear a hat, so it's already off ~ !  [?]
Should we buy Fedoras so we can take them off sometimes ?!
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Slim  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> I feel warm in the sun  , and RI is something i do all day off and on .
> Start and finish lev five with it . Rarely the same way twice. Not being
> employed or in need of money , i have all day, every day to use TROM.
>
> Running RI had become as strong a feeling as a herion addict might have
> after shooting up. But in a good way. The change is very noticeable and very
> welcome.
>
> Its exactly how Dennis says it would be and then some. Time breaking,
> material to time break , RI, putting up postulates and time breaking what
> ever shows up.
> Its exactly as stated in the games manual.
>
> Whats not stated are his ability gained or EP other than nirvana.
>
> I gauge each session by how i feel after the session and RI are done for
> the day.
>
> I can definitively notice the relation of time breaking and RI. The more
> the significant the material i time break on lev five, the more RI will run
> and be effective. A strong session will end off with lots of RI and finally
> end in a strong state of exteriorization. In other words , totally blown
> away for days in every way. A persistent dial wide FN , if used a meter.
> Discovering new abilities and almost non stop cognitions that leave me in
> stunning amazement .
>
> This is whats not in the manual and its what TROM is all about.  To be
> honest with everyone here, I decided to put it down for a while and let
> myself settle into  my new reality of life. I was cognitioning so often and
> my realty was changing from one week to the next so profoundly , i lost
> touch with reality in general.
>
> I'm just now going to restart lev five and i know its gonna be huge again.
>
> Its gone from finding TROM to not confronting or using lev two , to
> finishing lev three and searching everywhere for material to t-break, to
> overdoseing on lev four and finally cruising into level five as if I'm
> heading into a UFC fighting cage against the hardcore of the mind.
>
> There's nothing in life id rather be doing than lev five. Nothing more
> rewarding either. Ive returned to being a spiritual being again,
> transcending all the space and time of this universe as a spiritual body
> like most people consider themselves a human physical body .
>
> No worries about losing the body i have either. Looking forward to it some
> day :  )
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 12:48 PM, Colleen Peltomaa 
> wrote:
>
> > *
> > The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> > 
> > @ Ant, yes I discovered that co-auditing the CCHs is a cool way to renew
> affinities between a couple  :-)
> >
> > @Slim, when you where in the center of the sun did it feel cool or hot?
>  I got a feeling that it was not hot at all, just my perceptics.
> >
> > RE what you stated about RI is basically what I do sometimes too -- I get
> creative without really having to try -- it just flows mostly,
> > and is very enjoyable.  I also started using RI on my daily "TO DO's"
> list in that whatever I write down as "important" I create it as a
> > positive importance 360 around.  It seems to help me not make my daily
> tasks too important that I might forget the "rules of behavior"
> > towards other beings.
> >
> > best,
> > Colleen
> >
> > ___
> > Trom mailing list
> > Trom@lists.newciv.org
> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
> ___
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Re: [TROM1] RE TROM Objectives

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Hi Randy,  April 14/'11
 * WOW
!!!*
Oh, Gawd, this is the best email I've read in months from anyone !!  I'm
going to go to Kinko's and print this off.  I should frame it on my wall !
This is so motivating, and is triggering a whole bunch of questions that
will be coming to you over the days.  I hope that you will decide to keep
your body around long enough to at least see a few of us get to where you
are at;  remember what LRH said about turning over your hat before leaving
'post', per the Power Change formula.   I say that demurely and hopefully.

Thank you so very, very much !
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-7267

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Slim  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
> I feel warm in the sun  , and RI is something i do all day off and on .
> Start and finish lev five with it . Rarely the same way twice. Not being
> employed or in need of money , i have all day, every day to use TROM.
>
> Running RI had become as strong a feeling as a herion addict might have
> after shooting up. But in a good way. The change is very noticeable and very
> welcome.
>
> Its exactly how Dennis says it would be and then some. Time breaking,
> material to time break , RI, putting up postulates and time breaking what
> ever shows up.
> Its exactly as stated in the games manual.
>
> Whats not stated are his ability gained or EP other than nirvana.
>
> I gauge each session by how i feel after the session and RI are done for
> the day.
>
> I can definitively notice the relation of time breaking and RI. The more
> the significant the material i time break on lev five, the more RI will run
> and be effective. A strong session will end off with lots of RI and finally
> end in a strong state of exteriorization. In other words , totally blown
> away for days in every way. A persistent dial wide FN , if used a meter.
> Discovering new abilities and almost non stop cognitions that leave me in
> stunning amazement .
>
> This is whats not in the manual and its what TROM is all about.  To be
> honest with everyone here, I decided to put it down for a while and let
> myself settle into  my new reality of life. I was cognitioning so often and
> my realty was changing from one week to the next so profoundly , i lost
> touch with reality in general.
>
> I'm just now going to restart lev five and i know its gonna be huge again.
>
> Its gone from finding TROM to not confronting or using lev two , to
> finishing lev three and searching everywhere for material to t-break, to
> overdoseing on lev four and finally cruising into level five as if I'm
> heading into a UFC fighting cage against the hardcore of the mind.
>
> There's nothing in life id rather be doing than lev five. Nothing more
> rewarding either. Ive returned to being a spiritual being again,
> transcending all the space and time of this universe as a spiritual body
> like most people consider themselves a human physical body .
>
> No worries about losing the body i have either. Looking forward to it some
> day :  )
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 12:48 PM, Colleen Peltomaa 
> wrote:
>
> > *
> > The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> > 
> > @ Ant, yes I discovered that co-auditing the CCHs is a cool way to renew
> affinities between a couple  :-)
> >
> > @Slim, when you where in the center of the sun did it feel cool or hot?
>  I got a feeling that it was not hot at all, just my perceptics.
> >
> > RE what you stated about RI is basically what I do sometimes too -- I get
> creative without really having to try -- it just flows mostly,
> > and is very enjoyable.  I also started using RI on my daily "TO DO's"
> list in that whatever I write down as "important" I create it as a
> > positive importance 360 around.  It seems to help me not make my daily
> tasks too important that I might forget the "rules of behavior"
> > towards other beings.
> >
> > best,
> > Colleen
> >
> > ___
> > Trom mailing list
> > Trom@lists.newciv.org
> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
> ___
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Re: [TROM1] Starting on TROM again today.

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
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On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Mickel  wrote:

>  *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>  Hi Aarre
> Thanks for your best wishes and positive outlook.
> I am doing fine now, nearly back to normal, all the pain I was suffering
> has gone now.
> The pain was caused by a disruption to the blood supply to various organs
> in my body, that is why it has taken so long to get back on my feet again.
> I have had a CT brain scan and there was no damage to my brain so I was
> lucky there, although I was a bit surprised to find out I had a normal
> brain:)
>
> All spiritual people are still kicking in the graveyard of the long lost
> (quite paraphrased from LRH).
>
> I don't understand what that means, I can't see in what context that is
> used, I must have missed that one when I was studying Scientology.
>

It just means that we are still trying to improve spiritually, whereas most
non-spiritual people have been in apathy on it and aren't trying to improve
themselves spiritually anymore.  Pretty straightforward.

>
> The recent messages on the TROM list actually helped me reinstate my
> intention to get back to studying the TROM materials again as I realised I
> just had to roll my sleeves up and confront the materials, no escuses'
> Apply the study tech and get on with it instead of veering off whenever
> things got difficult.
>
> Do not concern yourself about not helping me as much as you would have
> liked to, behind this illusion called Mike here is an eternal aware Being, I
> am just pretending to be poor little me, the Self cannot be harmed in any
> way, that is my understanding, what ever horrors a person may endure in this
> physical universe dream world when the body decays and returns to dust we
> will be fine.
> That may differ to Scientology data where it says a spiritual decays over
> time but that is not my understanding or experience.
>

Thanks, that let's me feel better !

>
> I have times when I am quite active on the list but I also like to go off
> by myself and stay quiet for a while, the main reason is that it allows
> other people to write their messages instead of one person domanating the
> list all the time.
>
> Sorry about the delay in writing, I have to take 9 tablets every day to
> keep my blood pressure down and other things, I usually delay taking them
> till late in the afternoon as they make me extremely sluggish.
> Best
> MIke
>
>
> Well done Mike, April 7/'11
>

Thanks again,
Aarre Peltomaa

>
> Well done on your persistance, and seeking of truth.  Truth can come from
> many sources, but we should seek to plug into it.  I worried some about you,
> as I haven't heard from you for awhile.  I know you can make it, since you
> continue to persist.  All spiritual people are still kicking in the
> graveyard of the long lost (quite paraphrased from LRH).  I feel like a
> broken piece trying to help another broken piece.  It's a bit embarassing
> and shameful to me.
>
> It's been quiet on TROMlist, and then we got to a bout of talking about
> writing a simplified manual of TROM.  My latest agreement is with HappyHarry
> about writing study aids, but not changing or adding to the original
> manual.  I think that is the maximum win for all concerned.
>
> I'd like to get off a withold on not helping you as much as I'd like to.
> I've been slightly overwhelmed myself, and look forward to finishing level 4
> someday sooner, so the overwhelm becomes just so much passe/not important.
> It's all noise and drama anyway;  it is quite entertaining isn't it?  Just
> like we were doing a stage play at our high school.  I guess minimumly, we
> should enjoy the show.
> At risk of sounding foolish, or hypocritical, may I say that I wish you to
> stay in regular contact with us.  If we maintain comm, we can lick this
> physical problem of yours somehow.  I believe you have friends here
> postulating for your well being.  I DECIDED THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET
> BETTER.  SO THERE !
>
> your friend,
> Aarre Peltomaa
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] Reply to Roberto

[Aarre Peltomaa]

ut the entheta attached.

If you  had sufficient theta units,  and were able to evaluate data, or
as-is  you would see all the lies, traps and false data in scn and TROM.
More generalities and entheta.  How could you as-is your bank when you think
this way?  PLEASE NAME ONE SPECIFIC DATUM IN TROM which is false, a lie, or
a trap;  how in your almighty rightness do you decide it to be false.  Based
on what observation?LET'S GET REALLY SPECIFIC!!  I DARE YOU TO !!   Now
we'll talk, and really evaluate it.

Maybe it  is you   who   should not be on this list, or any  scn related
list, because you cannot recognize or handle truth and honesty.
Prove that you've got the truth and honesty;  show us some !  I haven't seen
much of it from you lately on TROM or Scientology from you because you
haven't given very many exact examples;  I can't evaluate those other
practices that you referenced, because I haven't studied them, nor applied them
yet.  Because I don't have the data to know that they are false or not
false, I automatically take the default by conscious postulate that they are
correct;  In other words, I believe them until I check them out and have
reason not to believe them.  It seems like you are applying Napoleanic law,
in which one is guilty (false) until proven true.  THAT IS PSYCHOTIC AND
SUPPRESSIVE AS A WORKING MODEL.  I assume (believe) it is not guilty
(correct), and give it the benefit of the doubt, as I believe a social
personality would, until I've properly tested it and deduced it was false.
But  you climb on a high horse, beat your chest and assume false authority
and imply  to  me who evaluates and calls a spade a spade ( as-is),  not to
be on this list.
You haven't told us where the spade was;  did you bury it by accident?
H.

That  is further evidence that the truth is guarded by assholes and lunatics
and others of low theta endowment  who determine who should be allowed
access to clearing tech.
You showed me how much you needed access to the clearing tech when you
showed a non-desire to get your computer fixed so you could even hear the
lectures;  that sounds a bit dilletantish, doesn't it?

It sure is a crazy, aberrated world.
Why do I feel that it's a crazy, aberrated world when I read your emails,
and not anyone elses?  Because I'm not fighting like Mike Tyson in most of
my emails, except this one, I guess that makes me nuts, right?

Your BS  contributes to the constrained flow of truth  on this list  and
prevents many people from the benefits of TROM.

I once sent a friend here to learn about TROM and he took one wiff of the
stench of intellectual dishonesty  on this list and left.


You and Mike and at least one or two others remind me of the Muslim believer
extremists  who are determined to kill all infidels and everyone who
criticizes their  Mohammed or Quran or and  does not believe as they do.
Specifics, please.
Same crap, different pile.
If you've finished level 4, then why do you seem so threatened by this;
perhaps you should show your prospects your success stories that you've had
with TROM.   WHY HAVEN'T YOU POSTED ANY LATELY IF IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO YOU



As a wise man articulated:  The holy man, the believer,  says the holy  is
truth. The truth seeker says the truth is holy.

(I know that it is likely  that you will not be able to figure that one out
so I will explain it:  The difference is; the holy man is unconscious and
unable to evaluate and needs authority to tell him what to believe, he is a
sheople, ( still very low on the scale of intellectual evolution)  and the
truth seeker is conscious, does not need to believe,  and is able to
evaluate and decide for himself  on what is true.)
It seems that you are the new holier-than-thou authority that we must
believe and listen to, who speaketh very angrily (1.5 - very keyed out, man!
Very level 4!)

Your letter says a heck of a lot more about you, than me.

You and the likes of you are only intelligent enough to argue to defend your
ignorance.  Just like the Muslim extremists.


Beware of those who have read only one book.

I suggest you  go and find some theta units.



Best wishes, ( really ?  that's 1.1 )

David

Hello David You have every right in the world to your well-founded opinion,
which for shure is as valid as mine. But maybe you wish to have a thought or
two about your motivation to stay on this list. Best wishes Roberto _
Yes, David, ( Gawd ), if we aren't worthy of thou, then thou shouldn't
converse with us lowly ones, except if you are 'fighting the infidels', and
punishing/overwhelming us with generalites and entheta, and opposition
postulates.  It seems you love a game;  go back and finish your level 2 or
3.  At least I can admit that I'm not finished on level 3, per the DATA IN
THE PACK !!!

> Aarre Peltomaa
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Re: [TROM1] Starting on TROM again today.

[Aarre Peltomaa]

*
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org

Well done Mike, April 7/'11

Well done on your persistance, and seeking of truth.  Truth can come from
many sources, but we should seek to plug into it.  I worried some about you,
as I haven't heard from you for awhile.  I know you can make it, since you
continue to persist.  All spiritual people are still kicking in the
graveyard of the long lost (quite paraphrased from LRH).  I feel like a
broken piece trying to help another broken piece.  It's a bit embarassing
and shameful to me.

It's been quiet on TROMlist, and then we got to a bout of talking about
writing a simplified manual of TROM.  My latest agreement is with HappyHarry
about writing study aids, but not changing or adding to the original
manual.  I think that is the maximum win for all concerned.

I'd like to get off a withold on not helping you as much as I'd like to.
I've been slightly overwhelmed myself, and look forward to finishing level 4
someday sooner, so the overwhelm becomes just so much passe/not important.
It's all noise and drama anyway;  it is quite entertaining isn't it?  Just
like we were doing a stage play at our high school.  I guess minimumly, we
should enjoy the show.
At risk of sounding foolish, or hypocritical, may I say that I wish you to
stay in regular contact with us.  If we maintain comm, we can lick this
physical problem of yours somehow.  I believe you have friends here
postulating for your well being.  I DECIDED THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET
BETTER.  SO THERE !

your friend,
Aarre Peltomaa
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
(647) 202-2767

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Mickel  wrote:

> *
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> 
>
>  Hi to Everyone
> As I have previously mentioned in past messages I am recovering from a
> major break down in a part of my body, it has taken many months to get back
> on my feet again and start to feel somewhat normal.
> In that time I have been too weak to use TROM so have used other methods to
> try and get back to good health again.
>
> It has always been my intention to get an understanding of how the mind
> works, this comes from powerful postulates I made as a young child due to
> some very strange experiences I was having at the time and very odd pictures
> or scenes I was seeing in my mind.
>
> Anyway, today I started studying TROM again just the first page, reading
> each sentence over and over again.
> Thinking up examples in real life and seeing how what I was reading applied
> to me and life.
>
> An interesting thing began to happen I started to get lots of scenes from
> the past show up to do with how others enforced their postulates on me (I
> haven't got around to seeing how I enforced my postulates on others yet),
> and I ended up with an interesting incident which may show you the power of
> someone enforcing something on a person at an early age.
>
> This incident took place at the age of 4 years old, ( I have a very good
> long term memory and a very bad short term memory).
> This took place at the dinner table and my Aunt happened to be visiting, I
> can't remember what I said but I can remember that it concerns me asking for
> the salt.
> What I can remember is my Aunt saying "Say Please!" like that over and
> over, I remember freezing and going solid, enormous charge on it, unable to
> move or speak.
>
> If the situation had been explained to me in a nice manner such as being
> told that when you ask someone for something such as the salt in this
> incident you say thankyou then no charge would have occurred.
>
> This early incident I can relate to many later incidents in my life and my
> attitude towards people or situations for instance, if someone orders me to
> do something in a hard manner I promise you that in someway overtly or
> covertly I will mess them up in someway or blow them out completely (Get rid
> of them), I have always been like that but ask me nicely, no problem.
>
> For me to try explain everything I became aware of while studying the first
> page of TROM would take up too much space but there is a nice incident to
> timebreak out and see more data about it as to why so much charge is on what
> appears to be a fairly simple incident.
>
> I am going to have to clay demo out some of these postulate structures and
> so on in TROM, it's going to be hard work to get it completely, but number
> of times over the materials equals certainty and results, Conceptual
> understanding is what I am after now.
> Best
> Mike
>
>
>
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Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese'

[Aarre Peltomaa]

 my current case level.

>
> I mean, take the Qur'an, for example: many, many muslims learn Arabic just
> so they can read it in the original Arabic. Think of the effort that takes.
> That is far, far harder than an absolute layman (without any Scientology
> background) studying TROM. The same applies to Jews studying the Torah in
> ancient Hebrew. I'm not suggesting TROM is comparable to these, but, as a
> mere example, you get the idea.
>

You're right!  But to get someone to 'kickstart' to be motivated enough to
invest that time, the person must have had some wins or cognitions to start
with.  Analogy is that to start a gasoline engine, there must be at least a
little fuel already in it for ignition to start;  called priming the pump.
The newbie needs to get that initial 'buzz' that'll get him started. Like
kindling wood to start a bonfire.  Too many misunderstood words acts like
too rich a fuel mixture, and clogs up the combustion till it stops.  Letting
him get some quick wins will accomplish this.   That's why your idea of
study aids is a good one.  I do believe the newbie must start doing some RI
pretty soon, and start drilling with his mind pretty soon before he has to
read the whole manual, or the initial enthusiasm/ignition spark will often
be extinguished.  Remember, doingness must go with theory for good study.
That is LRH study tech, which I strongly agree with from my personal
experience.

>
> On a different note, and I realise this is in contrast to what Denis wrote
> about planetary clearing with TROM, I don't think everyone can do it - do
> TROM. Take Scientology, for example: there's this huge organisational
> structure aimed at getting people up the bridge, with staff that help you
> and push you to do your next step, with books and courses, from the most
> basic to the most advanced, with a gradient that's supposed to make it a
> smooth and safe ride. And yet few of those who walk into a church become
> Scientologists. And very few Scientologists make it to clear, and even fewer
> to the OT levels - in spite of the support structure. Well, there is no
> support structure in TROM; you're supposed to go it alone (though there is
> the TROM list). So that gives you an idea on how many people will do TROM.
> Dumbing it down, simplifying the manual won't change that (it didn't
> change it for Scientology, with all its basic courses and services).

(this datum only sits well with me partially;  somehow it doesn't seem to
as-is for me somehow.  Perhaps the 'why' was something other than the basic
courses and services.  Perhaps it's the suppression in the org, as you
copiously read about in the Freezone that was closer to the why?


> Be grateful that you found TROM. Those th
>  at seek will always find.
>
> Phew, that was quite lengthy. I'm sorry, man. I am, after all, quite the
> chatterbox.
>

Extremely well done on being a chatterbox!  Please keep being so any time
you wish to.   I get 'longwinded' also.
Aarre Peltomaa

>
> Take care,
>
> Harry
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
> > Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 21:17:27 -0400
> > To: trom@lists.newciv.org
>  > Subject: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese'
> >
> > *
> > The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> > 
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> 
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