Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
Chuck, Not an ad. Yes I have deployed. I know of 2 competitors that offer sub 400 dollar CPE, as well as us. BR, Jeff Booher Channel Manager, North America www.apertonet.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24/7: 206-455-4950 On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 12:57:08 -0600, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Have you actually deployed WiMax @ 3.65 and have experienced this first hand? Where can I purchase sub $350 CPE on 3.65 today? This looks more like a vendor's ad than a WISP reporting real world experiences. Lots of dangling comparatives. - Original Message - From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:45 PM Subject: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz Since everyone was talking about wimax, thought I would throw my 3 cents in :) Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same BSU. 2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto, Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment ) 3. Better RF performance ( even with siso systems ) 4. NLOS performance ( OFDM+OFDMA = More difficult shots obtain link ) 5. Better QOS support, and service flows ( UGS, NRTPS, ETC can be ) 6. Greater scalablity ( Single sector can support hundreds of subscribers, our platform supports 30,000 pps ) 7. Support for multiline VOIP out of box ( UGS + 30K PPS ) 8. Sub 350 cpe shipping today ( in 100 packs, less with frame order commitments putting your cost sub 300 ) 9. Carrier class systems vs Wisp class ( True 99.999% uptime solutions available for base station equipment, reducing downtime and truck rolls ) 10. Carrier class network management systems that simplify provisioning and management of subscribers and base stations. Even if you don't choose aperto, there are many options in the market to choose from. Talk to your local reseller about your options, Such as Wireless Connections and Wirelessguys carry many products to choose from. Best Regards, Jeff Booher Aperto Networks, Inc Channel Manager, North America www.apertonet.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24/7: 206-455-4950 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Increased spectral efficiency Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased signal margin) Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies, though not now Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon? - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP I believe that WiMax is great... greater than equipment we currently use. I just don't use it at this time because of the cost. I also don't buy into a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are pushing. I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, committed bandwidth per customer. I was told (by more than one group) because of the WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 megs. Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no matter the magic. Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth it. I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with dissimilar equipment. Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or Tsunami introduced that just doesn't play well with others. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP I do not think we should build our networks for the sole purpose of suckering, err, selling to someone else. I do believe that I want anything I build to have value in the event I do sell. That is not suckering anyone. Why not build something that holds value or appreciates in value? I know a future plan for WISPs to build WiMax
Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
Scottie, We already do that. We have a sliding scale licensing model that starts at 16 CPE per sector. I know one other competitor that does this as well ( Airspan ) Jeff Booher Channel Manager, North America www.apertonet.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24/7: 206-455-4950 On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 19:10:03 -0500, Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: It would be great if this worked for everyone, everywhere. Still vendors are missing the point in many cases. Every place does NOT have a potential for 1000 subs (there is not a 1000 homes in the town I live), nor is every place FLAT that can be reached with service for 1000 subs. I have 4 900 Mhz AP's on 4 seperate towers just to cover 150 people in one county we service. I could not cover that many with 4 of your 3.65Ghz, too many hills. Build me an AP that I can buy with licenses for a certain amount of subscribers. Charge me less than $10,000(or whatever yours cost, it will definately be higher than my 900Mhz AP) for that AP, then I will buy into your 3.65. The vendors are taking the same stance as the FCC on these rural areas, forget about them...no money to be made there. Hey even rural folks need broadband too, after all we are people just like in the big cities...only thing is, it doesn't take us an hour or longer to get to work everyday. :) Scott -- Original Message -- From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 11:45:08 -0700 Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same Aperto Networks, Inc Channel Manager, North America www.apertonet.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24/7: 206-455-4950 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Increased spectral efficiency Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased signal margin) Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies, though not now Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon? - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP I believe that WiMax is great... greater than equipment we currently use. I just don't use it at this time because of the cost. I also don't buy into a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are pushing. I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, committed bandwidth per customer. I was told (by more than one group) because of the WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 megs. Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no matter the magic. Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth it. I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with dissimilar equipment. Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or Tsunami introduced that just doesn't play well with others. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP I do not think we should build our networks for the sole purpose of suckering, err, selling to someone else. I do believe that I want anything I build to have value in the event I do sell. That is not suckering anyone. Why not build something that holds value or appreciates in value? I know a future plan for WISPs to build WiMax networks in 3.65 would result in better networks, better valuations for WISPs and better economies of scale. Leaning on 802.11 further is just not the plan we should be using for new bands and new opportunities like we have in 3650. We have a chance to build something greater than we have now. WiMax is what the rest of the world is already using in the 3.4 thru 3.8 GHz band. Do any of you think it is smarter for us to abandon the global scale afforded to us if we adopt WiMax in 3.65
Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
Jack, Drew is an operator who is already deployed with Airspan, I believe. Is this correct Drew? Yes, forested areas always present a challenge, whether its 900, 700, 3.65ghz, 5.8ghz, etc etc. - Jeff Booher Channel Manager, North America www.apertonet.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24/7: 206-455-4950 On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:53:12 -0700, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Drew, Are you drawing your conclusions based on 3.65 deployments in other parts of the world? I ask because it's hard to imagine that there are already enough 3.65 deployments in the U.S. to draw all your conclusions. Also, physics is still physics. Even given advanced antenna systems, nLOS and NLOS performance at 3.65 is still going to be limited by hills and trees. No matter how advanced the APs and antenna systems, I find it very hard to believe that 3.65 is going to approach the performance of 900 MHz inside of (or on the other side of) a forested area. jack Drew Lentz wrote: I completely disagree with you on this topic. 3.65 makes a great play in a rural setting. I have spoken with many different groups who are capitalizing exactly on what benefits this frequency space offers in these environments. The price tags are not as high as you think, and the return on it is far greater than just how quickly your money comes back in. The ability to provide high bandwidth services in a space where you can control the QoS and give your end-users the ability (soon) to choose their own client device, at least to me, makes more sense than using a lightweight product like 900. As fas as battling terrain changes, look again at the nLOS and NLOS characteristics of 3.65 .. not to mention mobility and the self-install CPE. -d WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
Since everyone was talking about wimax, thought I would throw my 3 cents in :) Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same BSU. 2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto, Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment ) 3. Better RF performance ( even with siso systems ) 4. NLOS performance ( OFDM+OFDMA = More difficult shots obtain link ) 5. Better QOS support, and service flows ( UGS, NRTPS, ETC can be ) 6. Greater scalablity ( Single sector can support hundreds of subscribers, our platform supports 30,000 pps ) 7. Support for multiline VOIP out of box ( UGS + 30K PPS ) 8. Sub 350 cpe shipping today ( in 100 packs, less with frame order commitments putting your cost sub 300 ) 9. Carrier class systems vs Wisp class ( True 99.999% uptime solutions available for base station equipment, reducing downtime and truck rolls ) 10. Carrier class network management systems that simplify provisioning and management of subscribers and base stations. Even if you don't choose aperto, there are many options in the market to choose from. Talk to your local reseller about your options, Such as Wireless Connections and Wirelessguys carry many products to choose from. Best Regards, Jeff Booher Aperto Networks, Inc Channel Manager, North America www.apertonet.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24/7: 206-455-4950 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Increased spectral efficiency Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased signal margin) Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies, though not now Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon? - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP I believe that WiMax is great... greater than equipment we currently use. I just don't use it at this time because of the cost. I also don't buy into a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are pushing. I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, committed bandwidth per customer. I was told (by more than one group) because of the WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 megs. Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no matter the magic. Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth it. I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with dissimilar equipment. Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or Tsunami introduced that just doesn't play well with others. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP I do not think we should build our networks for the sole purpose of suckering, err, selling to someone else. I do believe that I want anything I build to have value in the event I do sell. That is not suckering anyone. Why not build something that holds value or appreciates in value? I know a future plan for WISPs to build WiMax networks in 3.65 would result in better networks, better valuations for WISPs and better economies of scale. Leaning on 802.11 further is just not the plan we should be using for new bands and new opportunities like we have in 3650. We have a chance to build something greater than we have now. WiMax is what the rest of the world is already using in the 3.4 thru 3.8 GHz band. Do any of you think it is smarter for us to abandon the global scale afforded to us if we adopt WiMax in 3.65? I am surprised more of you are not speaking up and saying you agree with this philosophy. Dividing the camp on this will not help us as an industry. I would like to see this group, for once, accept that we need to do something together, as a group, for the common good. I think this is that opportunity. I see little reason for us to take any other course of action in 3.65 GHz. WISPs need to do something as a group to help our industry.
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks ToRollout New WiMAX Service)
hipermax = super damn expensive- George I can send you a quote from a reseller off list- micromax= cheaper than VL. On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:38:01 -0800, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Only thing I want to know is the price range, offlist if you must. But I'm sure everyone is curious. Thanks George Eric Muehleisen wrote: We just completed a demo of Airspan's Hipermax in Emporia, Kansas yesterday. Stutler Technologies hosted us as they are one of the largest systems integrators for Airspan. I must say that I was very impressed with it's NLOS performance. We tested both the indoor self install and the outdoor ST Pro CPE. We achieve 6mb/s indoor at 2 miles NLOS. The base station was a 1 sector install using diversity at approximately. 50ft up on tower using 120 degree sectors. Email me offlist if you'd like more info and whitepapers from our testing. -Eric jeffrey thomas wrote: All, Aperto actually has a really killer product launching next month in 3.65. I would state its a lot more stable than Redline's product due to their secret sauce. Its the same platform that is winning carriers overseas. Airspan- yes absolutely can give you up to 10w EIRP legal- so your coverage area for fixed is literally insane- 15km NLOS @ bpsk is possible, according to their calculator tool. outdoor cpe is around 600 or so in single piece qty- talk to wireless guys to buy or other resellers. BTW, I believe they just joined Wispa as a vendor member, for those that sent me private mails asking them to join. - Jeff On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:19:44 -0600, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: So then Airspan can go further (more applicable to rural markets)? If Redline's 15 mbit throughput per 7.5 MHz is correct and is similar to other products in this band, a 10 MHz product would have 20 mbit throughput. I'm working on an Enterprise level service, so it seems like Redline's AN-80 is the only high quality product that actually has throughput capabilities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks ToRollout New WiMAX Service) IIRC, 3.65 ghz rules allow 1 watt EIRP per each mhz of bandwidth, thus a 7.5 Mhz Radio would be allowed 7.5 Watts of EIRP, 10 Mhz radio would be 10 Watts EIRP ... Redline cert does not reflect this... don't know why Airspan certification does get really close to it Mind me but 10 Watts EIRP if allot (about 40 db) Vendors should seek maybe 15 or 20 mhz channels Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service) As much as I like seeing One Ring's name over and over I figured I switch the subject line to match the tread. Mike's comments below are accurate with regard to Redline's equipment. However, it should be noted that Redline was not able to get their gear certified at the full power output allowable for 3.65. It is for this reason that Redline does not believe its gear will work in rural markets. Remember, 3.65 was originally supposed to be for the rural market, which means either Redline went wrong somewhere or the FCC did. Additionally, Redline has not sought to get its indoor CPE certified for 3.65 because of the power issue. That means urban operators are not able to offer self-install options that would greater speed up the rollout process. I believe WISPA should be working with the 3.65 radio vendors and the FCC to get things fixed such that there will be a greater opportunity for operators to provide services using 3.65. -Matt Mike Hammett wrote: The guys at Redline said their equipment is power limited due to FCC limitations. My point of view is based on Redline's statement of what their gear can do coupled with the documents filed with the FCC for their certification. The most I could get out of a PtP link was about 7 miles. With a 90* sector, only about 5 miles. I agree that all else the same 3.65 is better than 5.x GHz, only it isn't because the power isn't there. The throughput isn't there for WiMax compliant equipment due to small channels. If there were larger channel sizes, yes, it would support higher throughput applications. According
Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
correct On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:15:18 -0400, Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I thought it was Airspan 5 mhz channel: 4.07 w 10 mhz channel 7.24 w Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Wow- Thats a huge difference. For those that don't want to pull up the link... Redline: 25Mhz ch: 1.3w AirSpan: 20Mhz ch: 4.07 w AirSpan: 15Mhz ch: 7.24 w Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service and the Redline grant: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP YRequestTimeout=500application_id=549096fcc_id=QC8-AN100UA So Redline unit does have FAR less power available then AirSpan. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Airspan grant: https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP YRequestTimeout=500application_id=686827fcc_id=O2J-365T Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Mike, Now that I've read those posts of yours, I better understand your position. I was not taking reduced power into consideration. I just had in my mind the 25watts EIRP often mentioned in FCC precentations over the years. To the best of my knowledge, the AirSpan product that I am familiar with, do not have that same limitation. Although I do not have that data off the top of my head, to respond accurately. But regardless... What we have here is not a limitation by WiMax, nor by 3.6G, nor FCC, but a limit posed by the manufacturers and their designs. Doesn't anyone have any insight on why the FCC rules allow more power for wider channels? I realize that wider channels create larger internal system noise, which could be a reason for needing more power for wider channels. But that is in contradiction to 2.4Ghz rules for Smart Array antennas, that rewarded in highr power for those that had narrower beamwidths, and interfere less. In that spirit, I would think it would have been wise to reward those who strived to use smaller channels, apposed to penalize them for being more efficient. There obviously has to be a technical reason apposed to spectrum ediquete. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service See my other post about Redline's comments and their FCC filed documents. It just doesn't have the power. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Wimax APs can go much fartehr than 2-5 miles. You are spec'ing the distance limits of their advanced NLOS features. In LOS, they can go just as far as any other unlicened gear. I think its important to define country. If you are talking about Idaho with houses 20 miles apart, yes, you'd be correct. 2.4Ghz and less is the better option. But where 3.6 Wimax could be exciting is small little towns. where 3 6Mhz channels would actually be enough to get decent speed, and able to acheive high modulations because its noise free. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Exactly. What good is an AP that can
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks ToRollout New WiMAX Service)
and actually Aperto has 21 mb throughput on a 7mhz channel On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:19:44 -0600, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: So then Airspan can go further (more applicable to rural markets)? If Redline's 15 mbit throughput per 7.5 MHz is correct and is similar to other products in this band, a 10 MHz product would have 20 mbit throughput. I'm working on an Enterprise level service, so it seems like Redline's AN-80 is the only high quality product that actually has throughput capabilities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks ToRollout New WiMAX Service) IIRC, 3.65 ghz rules allow 1 watt EIRP per each mhz of bandwidth, thus a 7.5 Mhz Radio would be allowed 7.5 Watts of EIRP, 10 Mhz radio would be 10 Watts EIRP ... Redline cert does not reflect this... don't know why Airspan certification does get really close to it Mind me but 10 Watts EIRP if allot (about 40 db) Vendors should seek maybe 15 or 20 mhz channels Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service) As much as I like seeing One Ring's name over and over I figured I switch the subject line to match the tread. Mike's comments below are accurate with regard to Redline's equipment. However, it should be noted that Redline was not able to get their gear certified at the full power output allowable for 3.65. It is for this reason that Redline does not believe its gear will work in rural markets. Remember, 3.65 was originally supposed to be for the rural market, which means either Redline went wrong somewhere or the FCC did. Additionally, Redline has not sought to get its indoor CPE certified for 3.65 because of the power issue. That means urban operators are not able to offer self-install options that would greater speed up the rollout process. I believe WISPA should be working with the 3.65 radio vendors and the FCC to get things fixed such that there will be a greater opportunity for operators to provide services using 3.65. -Matt Mike Hammett wrote: The guys at Redline said their equipment is power limited due to FCC limitations. My point of view is based on Redline's statement of what their gear can do coupled with the documents filed with the FCC for their certification. The most I could get out of a PtP link was about 7 miles. With a 90* sector, only about 5 miles. I agree that all else the same 3.65 is better than 5.x GHz, only it isn't because the power isn't there. The throughput isn't there for WiMax compliant equipment due to small channels. If there were larger channel sizes, yes, it would support higher throughput applications. According to Redline, 7.5 MHz only gets about 15 megs of throughput with WiMax. Redline explicitly said 3.65 GHz isn't for rural applications due to the power. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
Bear in mind everyone- the Airspan product is also about 2x the price of redline on base. Its ultimately designed for zero truck roll mobility for indoor 2km cells ( and works, Im actually sitting in Airspan's boca facility right now, getting training on Hipermax ) You could as well use it for fixed NLOS. Personally I would wait on the mobility until they release software version 8 which includes 2x2 mimo matrix A / B / S0FDMA 1024. it looks pretty damn sweet. ill keep everyone posted as we have 4-5 customers rolling networks this quarter. ( we dont however sell direct, via channel partners ) I love their new USB modems, sub 200.00 in massive QTY I AM ultimately excited the most about the fixed oppty, with super rad long range fixed coverage in NLOS. - Jeff On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:42:28 -0600, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: and the Redline grant: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COPYRequestTimeout=500application_id=549096fcc_id=QC8-AN100UA So Redline unit does have FAR less power available then AirSpan. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Airspan grant: https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP YRequestTimeout=500application_id=686827fcc_id=O2J-365T Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Mike, Now that I've read those posts of yours, I better understand your position. I was not taking reduced power into consideration. I just had in my mind the 25watts EIRP often mentioned in FCC precentations over the years. To the best of my knowledge, the AirSpan product that I am familiar with, do not have that same limitation. Although I do not have that data off the top of my head, to respond accurately. But regardless... What we have here is not a limitation by WiMax, nor by 3.6G, nor FCC, but a limit posed by the manufacturers and their designs. Doesn't anyone have any insight on why the FCC rules allow more power for wider channels? I realize that wider channels create larger internal system noise, which could be a reason for needing more power for wider channels. But that is in contradiction to 2.4Ghz rules for Smart Array antennas, that rewarded in highr power for those that had narrower beamwidths, and interfere less. In that spirit, I would think it would have been wise to reward those who strived to use smaller channels, apposed to penalize them for being more efficient. There obviously has to be a technical reason apposed to spectrum ediquete. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service See my other post about Redline's comments and their FCC filed documents. It just doesn't have the power. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Wimax APs can go much fartehr than 2-5 miles. You are spec'ing the distance limits of their advanced NLOS features. In LOS, they can go just as far as any other unlicened gear. I think its important to define country. If you are talking about Idaho with houses 20 miles apart, yes, you'd be correct. 2.4Ghz and less is the better option. But where 3.6 Wimax could be exciting is small little towns. where 3 6Mhz channels would actually be enough to get decent speed, and able to acheive high modulations because its noise free. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service Exactly. What good is an AP that can only do 15 megs throughput in the city? What good is an AP that can only do 2 - 5 miles in the country? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service)
This is due to the fact that they dont have the contention protocol. On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:56:49 -0500, Mike Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not sure why but the FCC dinged Redline 10DB of tx power due average vs peak power calculations. Mike At 12:26 PM 1/12/2008, you wrote: IIRC, 3.65 ghz rules allow 1 watt EIRP per each mhz of bandwidth, thus a 7.5 Mhz Radio would be allowed 7.5 Watts of EIRP, 10 Mhz radio would be 10 Watts EIRP ... Redline cert does not reflect this... don't know why Airspan certification does get really close to it Mind me but 10 Watts EIRP if allot (about 40 db) Vendors should seek maybe 15 or 20 mhz channels Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650
All, Airspan has submitted for the lower band ( higher power ) and supposedly been given the thumbs up for their hipermax product and will be submitting for micromaxE as well. Airspan supports the full 5w output power on 10mhz and 10 watt output power on 20mhz, as well as mimo. Currently Airspan is the only product in 3.65ghz with MIMO support that I know of that can get indoors to a consumer CPE @ a 2-3 mile cell ( 95% availability NLOS ) that actually is shipping TODAY. Hipermax will be suited for metropolitan tier 1-5 operators while micromax will be suited for rural operators, or smaller operators. Hipermax operates as an 802.16d/e product at the same time while micromax is either d or e. My understanding is redline will be submitting for their 802.16e product as well, but is only currently certified for the upper 25mhz, not the lower 25mhz and the radios are only 30dbm. ( airspan hipermax is up to 4x 40dbm, mimo matrix A / B ) ( micromax is 2x2 MIMO matrix A / B 36dbm ) No comment on Aperto's status, I have no clear idea when and if they will be coming out with 3.65ghz product, my current understsanding is their focus is on 5..8 fixed wimax in the USA and thats it for now. To purchase Airspan, Wireless guys www.wirelessguys.com apparently is carrying them now. To purchase redline call one of your local redline dealers. - Jeff - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 5:08 AM Subject: [WISPA] 3650 Now that P15 is reporting that 3650 is available, who all makes equipment for it? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
muliple operating frequency overlay- MOFO Atca ( telco term for a standard they use for rack mounted blade base station equipment, with interoperability, you can potentially have a base station unit with a Airspan blade for 3.65, an aperto blade for 5.4, and an alvarion blade for 5.8 ) Internationally this applies to most 3.5 ghz solutions. SDR- software defined radio. This makes it so manufacturers can very easily offer additional features like 2x2 mimo, beamforming, and quickly port to other frequencies without needing to manufacture new ODU's and IDU's. On Oct 7, 2007, at 7:01 AM, Dylan Oliver wrote: MOFO? ATCA? SDR? On 10/6/07, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. --- -- --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** --- -- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- -- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
There specs said 36dbm ( 5 watts ) I thought On Oct 7, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I think it was 300Mil, not 5. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
All, Again, remember that patrick works for 1 company while I personally have the freedom as a consumer to talk to EVERYONE making equipment. yes a licensed version will look like an unlicensed, but will be just limited in output power. What is the point however of using 802.16e over 802.16d if you don't have the proper spectrum? Cmon! 1048 ofdm? still gotta go outdoors @ 5.8ghz! I just ran a link budget ( for fun and games ) - utilizing a high powered, high capacity base station solution @ 5.8 ghz for a NLOS cpe. This company uses beamforming, 2 x 2 mimo, uplink subchannelization, and guess what the effective range per cell for an indoor, window mounted CPE? .5KM @ 75% penetration @ bpsk 1/2. .25km for a self install @ 90% penetration. 802.16e doesn't always mean mobile, but some companies are coming out with solutions where there isnt backwards compatibility to 802.16d ( dont ask me why ) It all depends on who the MFR is, ( Axcellera is one, Solectek another ) The point is 802.16d is still DAMN sweet gear that can get you greater scaleability ( try up to 1000 subscribers per sector, or 8000 subscribers per base ) Carrier grade voice services, video services, T-1 grade internet, etc. - Jeff On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: Another inaccurate post. Jeff assumes that a UL WiMAX 5.8 GHz system will look like a licensed version. He also assumes 802.16e means mobile -- it does not, 802.16e systems can be mobile, fixed, nomadic or combinations of these. The WiMAX Forum will eventually have an 802.16e profile for 5 GHz, but the systems themselves will be designed for the realities of UL in 5 GHz (so they will be designed for fixed). As such, they will not have lots of the expensive things needed in a mobile WiMAX network like ASN gateways, AAA servers, etc. At this point, it is probably best to ignore Jeff's posts regarding WiMAX. They are thus far simply wildly off the mark. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum
They have submitted for several OET's from my understanding, for those frequencies. On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:52 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: And speaking of misleading Jeff, you should do the basic diligence before reporting what is or is not available in the U.S. from any vendor. All are welcome to check who has what available at least in the U.S. via this search. Jeff, if you are accurate, you'll see all these frequency options for versions on the OET equipment authorization search. Of the seven you list Jeff, only two are available. The rest is just talk or a place mark on a future roadmap. See for yourself: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum ...not misleading fluff, Airspan for example is shipping TODAY 802.16-2004 compliant ( not wimax compliant, not that it matters considering there is no wimax interop for QOS, so really who cares anyways ) solutions in 1.4, 2.3, 2.5, 3.3-37, 5.4, 4.9, and 5.8ghz bands. - Jeff ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). ** ** ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. ** ** -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum
Rick, When your Rep @ xyz company says they have applied for FCC clearance and expect type certification to be completed within 2-3 weeks, I would say thats pretty good info, you are correct that I probably should take the time to verify everything they have stated- and I do agree I should have qualified that within my original response. Anyways, sorry to bother. tks, Jeff On Oct 2, 2007, at 1:40 PM, Rick Harnish wrote: Have you verified your information source with research or are you suggesting we believe your third party understanding? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum They have submitted for several OET's from my understanding, for those frequencies. On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:52 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: And speaking of misleading Jeff, you should do the basic diligence before reporting what is or is not available in the U.S. from any vendor. All are welcome to check who has what available at least in the U.S. via this search. Jeff, if you are accurate, you'll see all these frequency options for versions on the OET equipment authorization search. Of the seven you list Jeff, only two are available. The rest is just talk or a place mark on a future roadmap. See for yourself: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum ...not misleading fluff, Airspan for example is shipping TODAY 802.16-2004 compliant ( not wimax compliant, not that it matters considering there is no wimax interop for QOS, so really who cares anyways ) solutions in 1.4, 2.3, 2.5, 3.3-37, 5.4, 4.9, and 5.8ghz bands. - Jeff * * ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). * * ** * * ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. * * ** - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.39/1044 - Release Date: 10/2/2007 11:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.39/1044 - Release Date: 10/2/2007 11:10 AM -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31
Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum
Patrick, I disagree, as most of the network operators, internationally that I have spoken with have stated that they currently have no interest in 802.16 and are just looking for standards based solutions that utilize 802.16a-2004 chipsets. They just want QOS capable, scalable, FIXED BROADBAND WIRELESS ACCESS. In the US there are very LIMITED # of providers than have access to licensed 2 ghz bands, so i don't understand clearly why the 2ghz profile would matter as much, since you literally have 2 players in that space, now actually one, xohm. not misleading fluff, Airspan for example is shipping TODAY 802.16-2004 compliant ( not wimax compliant, not that it matters considering there is no wimax interop for QOS, so really who cares anyways ) solutions in 1.4, 2.3, 2.5, 3.3-37, 5.4, 4.9, and 5.8ghz bands. - Jeff On Sep 28, 2007, at 3:59 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Jeff, That would be stretching to the extreme since the simple point of fact is that there is no WiMAX Forum profile for the AWS bands. No profile means no ecosystem. No ecosystem means no chips and no devices in scale or interoperability between suppliers. Folks, right now there is only one profile in WiMAX that matters and these are the ones based on 802.16e-2005 in 2.3, 2.5 and 3.5 GHz ranges. Those are the only bands for which the ecosystem is revolving and evolving right now. Other may be added at some point, but right now anything else is misleading fluff. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum Scriv, I know of 2 MFR's that are SHIPPING wimax in your band you hold licenses for. hit me offlist. tks, Jeff On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:12 PM, John Scrivner wrote: So Patrick, if an operator has an interest in launching WiMAX using BreezeMax will Alvarion help them find and acquire access to a license in the market they are looking to launch? I know that is not your area of expertise but I also know that other competitive vendors are doing just this type of work to help operators get in the game. If not I know that Kris Twomey and Stephen Coran are both capable of helping in this process. I am working on this myself. It would be nice if an AWS profile were being established for WiMAX (since I have a license in this band which NOBODY has done anything with yet). I guess it will happen once someone steps up and places a BIG order! :-) Scriv Patrick Leary wrote: The way, the link to the Secondary Market specific search is: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLease.jsp Spectrum Lease Search A new ULS feature to search for spectrum leases, including searches on fields unique to leasing. The spectrum lease search results page is standard ULS format with a link to lease details. The spectrum lease detail page, also standard ULS format, is similar to license detail in that the lease information is displayed in tabs such as Main, Admin, Technical Data, and Market. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World Chicago, September 25-27 Booth #409 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum Yes and the FCC site has a specific search feature just for these things and refers to this activity as Secondary Markets. Patrick Alvarion -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum Is there a documentation/reporting requirement of EBS spectrum holders that requires them to report who they leased their spectrum to, and when/if they leased it? In other words, does the FCC search just show the original spectrum holder (educational insititute) or also the subleasee? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:43 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum The band generally called 2.5 refers to an almost 200 MHz collection of spectrum divided up about 60% as non-profit EBS (educational broadband service) spectrum and 40% commercially auctioned BRS (broadband radio service) spectrum. These were formerly called ITFS (instructional fixed television service) and MMDS (multimedia distribution service). The original allocation was for one-way cable
Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum
Scriv, I know of 2 MFR's that are SHIPPING wimax in your band you hold licenses for. hit me offlist. tks, Jeff On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:12 PM, John Scrivner wrote: So Patrick, if an operator has an interest in launching WiMAX using BreezeMax will Alvarion help them find and acquire access to a license in the market they are looking to launch? I know that is not your area of expertise but I also know that other competitive vendors are doing just this type of work to help operators get in the game. If not I know that Kris Twomey and Stephen Coran are both capable of helping in this process. I am working on this myself. It would be nice if an AWS profile were being established for WiMAX (since I have a license in this band which NOBODY has done anything with yet). I guess it will happen once someone steps up and places a BIG order! :-) Scriv Patrick Leary wrote: The way, the link to the Secondary Market specific search is: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLease.jsp Spectrum Lease Search A new ULS feature to search for spectrum leases, including searches on fields unique to leasing. The spectrum lease search results page is standard ULS format with a link to lease details. The spectrum lease detail page, also standard ULS format, is similar to license detail in that the lease information is displayed in tabs such as Main, Admin, Technical Data, and Market. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World Chicago, September 25-27 Booth #409 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum Yes and the FCC site has a specific search feature just for these things and refers to this activity as Secondary Markets. Patrick Alvarion -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum Is there a documentation/reporting requirement of EBS spectrum holders that requires them to report who they leased their spectrum to, and when/if they leased it? In other words, does the FCC search just show the original spectrum holder (educational insititute) or also the subleasee? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:43 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum The band generally called 2.5 refers to an almost 200 MHz collection of spectrum divided up about 60% as non-profit EBS (educational broadband service) spectrum and 40% commercially auctioned BRS (broadband radio service) spectrum. These were formerly called ITFS (instructional fixed television service) and MMDS (multimedia distribution service). The original allocation was for one-way cable, but over the past years the band has been re-configured for broadband service. In any one area a variety of commercial and non-profits have various channels. The FCC allows the non-profits (including the schools you refer to) to sublet the spectrum to commercial operators. The 2.3 range is called WCS (wireless communications services) and is different than the 2.5, both in terms of typical available channel sizes and technical rules. BellSouth, as part of the ATT acquisition thereof, was required by the feds to sell its stake in the commercial 2.5 GHz bands (principally around Florida and New Orleans). Clearwire bought these assets for $300 million a few months back. - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:52 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum It looks as though BellSouth and Nextel have the 2.3 and Nextel has the 2.5. I thought they set aside some of those frequencies for schools? Can the schools still have the license along with the big guys? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum That's a very simple process Scottie, which is achieved using the FCC Web site. From the home page of www.fcc.gov, go to the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau area (choice on the right, scrolled down a tad), then go to License Search (also a choice on the right). Specifically, go here: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp On this page I prefer
Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
All, focusing on the future of white space is so far off that you can't even assume that the current technologies used will even apply ( or there will be a market for WISPs to service ) If I was any of you I would be banging down the FCC's door to get decent output power ( greater than 1w EIRP ) for 3.65 otherwise there is no NLOS magic wisp bullet ever. its back to good ol LOS! On Aug 9, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: To reinforce Steve's comment, Butch it is not only the technology that will very distinct, but the applications running across such spectrum will be distinct. Most likely we'd see some sort of future TV-ish application, one that is interactive, user selectable in terms of content and God knows what else. And as Steve noted, the technology will be a big challenge. Not only must such devices deal with protecting broadcasts, but it will also have to not interfere with the millions of low end receivers in the market sitting in every home in the U.STVs. Basically, for the white space a whole ecosystem will have to be created and evolve and know one has any real idea what this will look like. I would estimate that we are years from any mass usage of white space and frankly, bwa vendors have their hands full at the moment with the other current and forthcoming bands. For example, our RD run rate is better than $13M a quarter -- a massive pace, especially relative to those companies you are familiar with (it is a number equivalent to some WISP vendors full year of revenues) and every dollar of that is going toward development and evolution of products for the current and growing unlicensed and licensed markets. Long before anything can be done with the white space we have to deal with 3.65 and 700, much less all the current frequencies. BTW, I do know a little about the device the IT companies forwarded to the FCC. Let's just say that these IT companies are gurus of tech, but they are clearly not exactly radio guys! - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Patrick Leary wrote: Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike, which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be broader than fixed wireless as we know it today. I presume you're referring to mobile applications. I know that you (Alvarion) have a mobile 900 product, so the step to this lower band should be and easy one for that technology anyway. You don't have any information on what device the FCC tested and failed, do you? You're the guy that would know if anyone does. :-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). ** ** ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). ** ** ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). ** ** ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. ** **
Re: [WISPA] Airspan launches 3.65 gear
offlist On Jun 20, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: any pricing yet On 6/20/07, Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.marketwirecanada.com/2.0/release.do?id=744234 Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.mikrotikconsulting.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Testing....123
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Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
*high fives charles* On 4/2/07 3:44 PM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans I would disagree with that. Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their decision. There are plenty of solutions available that are just as cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered. On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is everyone's limit? ;) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC certification? Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR vendor and asking them to do the same. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
That's an age old question. Anyone have any ideas what's up with it? - Jeff On 3/2/07 1:29 AM, wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I spent some time reading the latest R O about the 3650 spectrum, which is dated back in 2005. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf I am, however, unable to understand what the present status is. Does anyone have that information? What's going on...or not going on? Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WA State WISPS
Ryan, The DNR is really flexible on those rates. Where is the tower you Are considering leasing? Btw, My Girlfreind's roomate works for the DNR in Wa state, I can ask her what she would recommend to offer. - Jeff On 2/14/07 1:00 PM, Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone? ryan D. Ryan Spott wrote, On 2/13/2007 4:43 PM: Hello all! I am looking at leasing space on the ground or on a tower owned by WA State Department of Natural Resources. When I look at the leasing brochure they list wireless broadband providers and cellular telephone carriers as a you must negotiate rate. So.. do any of you have existing leases? Are you willing to share ballpark figures for leasing space? Thanks! ryan ps: I joined and already posted this to the WA State WISPA list.. --WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] churn, double play and why WLP is key - I finallyunderstand it
Tom, I just read this now- but I would say that you likely didn't deploy a packetwave with the CBR qos enabled. Aperto works like crap if you don't Set up service flows on a bsr. On 1/9/07 9:41 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff, Not to be confrontational but. 400 calls per sector Hogwash, not a chance in heXX. I do agree that Aperto was one of the first products in the market place to offer full feature sets in one package, with strengths on its QOS and Bandwidth management, and NLOS ability. A lot of smart innovated things on their radios, much earlier than other vendors. But its down fall was limiting itself to only 6 Mhz channels, and mandatory pre-defined split of bandwidth allocated for each direction, limiting its possible bandwdith to approximately 1/6 what the VL could deliver REAL WORLD. Aperto limited themselves to believe there wouldn't be fast enough backhauls to justify having faster sectors, which was wrong. They also didn't consider noise as a key factor, when doing their math on what speed they could get with 6Mhz. Then throw in their lack of having remote live testing tools, so half the time it was hard to even know what performance was even being acheived, without a truck roll and taking the client down to test. I got better VOIP performance out of our Trango's than I did Aperto, which is why we pulled our Aperto out of DC. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] churn, double play and why WLP is key - I finallyunderstand it I believe it can now be said without reservation, that if you are using unlicensed and wanting to implement a double play of VoIP + data, the ONLY product out there that can do it in scale and with toll quality is BreezeACCESS VL. Bzzz.. Wrong. Aperto supports toll quality voice of about 400 calls per sector, on 1/3 of the channel width that vl requires. Other than aperto though, I would agree with most of your sentiments. - Jeff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] churn, double play and why WLP is key - I finally understand it
I believe it can now be said without reservation, that if you are using unlicensed and wanting to implement a double play of VoIP + data, the ONLY product out there that can do it in scale and with toll quality is BreezeACCESS VL. Bzzz.. Wrong. Aperto supports toll quality voice of about 400 calls per sector, on 1/3 of the channel width that vl requires. Other than aperto though, I would agree with most of your sentiments. - Jeff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Brad B, I got your answer on the pinout for BreezeACCESSVL
But you still date 24 year olds ;) - Jeff On 1/5/07 3:29 PM, Forbes Mercy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H I'm 48 - gawd I just looked at that in print and it is WAY too old for me. Forbes Mercy Washington Broadband, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 2:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Brad B, I got your answer on the pinout for BreezeACCESSVL On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Patrick Leary wrote: Sigh. I guess at 42 I qualify for old man to some of you whipper-snappers! 42 is NOT OLD! 42 is the meaning to life, the universe and everything! (and you're right there in it!) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango at ISPCON
Brian, Standards don't really matter unless you have interop on the mac layer as well as QOS.With just MAC and phy layer interoperability, the only thing that will be supported is simple bridging and routing when you use seperate vendor's CPE and Base stations. btw, no one is currently supporting QOS interoperability. Also currently there is only one company that has released 5.8 product using 802.16a technology and is expected to be interoperable should other vendors roll out product utilizing a 10mhz channel width. The whole Wimax revolution really doesn't matter to Wisp's in the US if unlicensed bands are never expected to be supported. - Jeff On 11/14/06 12:07 PM, Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom DeReggi wrote: Trango repeated its WISP summit at ISPCON again this year as well. The purpose was to ask WISPs what they need in next generation products, and disclose upcomming products. It was also exciting to learn more about their next generation WIMax product. The advantage of that platform, is its early enough in the development process that there is still time for Trango to add features that WISPs requested, to make it a better solution. A lot of neet ideas were pitched, hopefully Trango will implement some of them, to compliment their offering. Trango's approach is to take WiMax chipset, with the option to run a standard WiMax MAC, but shipped default with Trango's modified Firmware to fit nicely in line with existing Trango gear firmware features and tools. This would also have the side effect of giving WiMax features at Lower prices than WIMax competitors, and more unique differenciators than competitors by not being limited to standards. I thought one main advantage of WiMax was the standards. By not following standards the customers ARE limited. Everyone knows that every install is different. I thought with WiMax we might actually get to pick the right gear for each job. Can't do that without standards. They only want to keep you locked in. I hate being locked into one thing. You can never use better gear when it comes out because you are locked into old crap. My perception, is that the 10mbps solution would continue as the low cost options, but the WIMax line would be the high end product delivering higher capacity / Higher feature gear, that would be priced somewhere between 5830 and Fox lines. My understanding is that Live versions were displayed at Wimax World. Its not appropriate to discuss exact features yet, for obvious competitive reasons of a not yet released product. It could be a real exciting product, and something worth keeping an eye on as it develops. Unfortuneately though, this is not an option for us today, as the product has not yet been released, and probably won't for about 6 month. (Disclaimer: not an authorized time prediction listed) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Airband acquires RedWire with eye on WiMAX
Congrats to Jim~ I know they worked long and hard to be bought out :) - Jeff On 10/17/06 2:24 PM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27551 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ma Bell's About Face On Muni-WiFi
The core issue all these mesh networks is they were not built with proper density which by our calculations for a network the size of mountain view would be about 45 nodes per sq mile, instead of the 30-32 nodes per square mile implemented. YMMV... - Jeff On 8/30/06 9:29 AM, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, We are on the same page, trust me. There has yet to be a solidly working civic access muni network. By solidly, I mean indoor coverage without forced buying of a secondary CPE. We have also yet to see a successfully scaled mesh network for low cost civic access. Philly and San Fran are still on paper only. These networks are able to provide good outdoor coverage only so far. That is also why we like playing the multipoint backhaul layer. We can reliably deliver that middle layer and get high connectivity for the mesh nodes, fixed cameras, traffic lights, a city buildings, but the success of the Wi-Fi layer is beyond our control and remains the questionable piece. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ma Bell's About Face On Muni-WiFi Patrick Leary wrote: I agree that many WISPs have panned muni wi-fi instead of leveraging their expertise. WISPs were arguably best positioned initially to address this need. Smart VARs and resellers got busy though and whether WISPs realize it, almost all the VARs that serve the WISP community now have a muni engagement. It is just a business reality. And why shouldn't they? If you are radio vendor, reseller, or VAR muni Wi-Fi is a great thing. You get to sell a bunch radios and consulting time. It doesn't matter if the business plan makes sense or if the network even works long term. operators on the other hand have to be concerned about the long-term. Patrick, I bet your radios are doing great technically in the Mountain View deployment, but you stated you personally aren't able to use the Wi-Fi portion of the network. Does that make the network a failure from your perspective as a consumer? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Not me, no way!
Its quicktime. The down arrow on the left hand side has an option save as source.. - Jeff On 8/28/06 10:24 AM, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great video !!!1 Anyone knows has to save this to disk ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:44 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Not me, no way! http://www.pockethercules.com/broadcast_detail16.html Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Not me, no way!
I take that back, the right hand side. On 8/28/06 12:07 PM, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its quicktime. The down arrow on the left hand side has an option save as source.. - Jeff On 8/28/06 10:24 AM, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great video !!!1 Anyone knows has to save this to disk ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:44 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Not me, no way! http://www.pockethercules.com/broadcast_detail16.html Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, online contact groups
I use both. I find them pretty useful, actually. On 7/24/06 5:14 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I keep getting offers to sign up for plaxo, linked in etc. I've NEVER signed up for any. They seem too much like email harvesting or porn jerks to me. Am I off base here? Some people that I highly respect have come across my desk with these types of systems. I just don't particularly care to put my email and personal contact info in the hands of any more people that I don't know if I can trust with it. Are these companies legit? Do they promise that they will NEVER give or sell your data to anyone else? How do they make their money? I'm having trouble trusting anyone over the internet these days Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Zcomax has WIMAX?
Sure- but they don't have any plans to make base stations, so none of the base station manufacturer provided QOS mechanisms will work with zcomax clients. - Jeff On 6/12/06 7:44 PM, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.zcom.com.tw/news001.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax corrections-The info is out there if you look
Title: Re: [WISPA] Wimax corrections-The info is out there if you look On the CPE pricing... Yup, and the only one shipping 5.8 product yet is Airspan. - Jeff On 6/13/06 6:42 AM, Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few corrections: The issue with 3.650 is the FCC has not decided on ANY spec. Wimax was never a 3.650 issue and this has been corrected time and time again. The FCC has stated publicly many times that Wimax was never overlooked as a platform. The wifi crowd took the contention based excerpt to the extreme and the drum beat continues today. Wimax will do more than current 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz OFDM products. Just to name a few -Bits per hertz increased, packets per second through the radio increased, Standardization, 256 OFDM vs 64 OFDM and many more differences. And if you're comparing Wimaxed OFDM solutions to DS based systems there are major differences. Please keep in mind that not all pre-Wimax OFDM systems are comparable. The current Wimax protocol is not interference resilient. However, there is a body in the forum working on a solution called 802.16h. Expect to see sub $300 cpe this yearsurprise .it's already here. Brad From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Zcomax has WIMAX? Few things of info: - 3.5Ghz is not not license free in the, 50Mhz at 3.65 is but there are issue with using this with WiMax - WiMax does NOT do any more at 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz then the products on the market today in reference to RF not protocol. - The WiMax protocol has many cool features but are based on a model where there is little or no interface. - I would not expect to see any WiMax product near pricing most WISP pay today to mid 2007 end 2008. I am sure by then there will be sub $100 CPE using the other standards which will have most if not all the features WiMax has in the spec. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com http://www.demarctech.com/ This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jenco Wireless Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Zcomax has WIMAX? Why is the 3.5 Wi-Max license free band not approved in the U.S. ??? -- Brad H On 6/12/06, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.zcom.com.tw/news001.htm -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(192). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
Johnny-o, I have made some mistakes in the past, however this is wimax- and for the most part I have no reason to believe any of their claims are false or Filled with marketing goobly gook. Aperto always did and has performed well beyond it's claims. I admit fault In intially thinking that the product from vivato would be interesting, Of course as many of you know now, they never had a real phased array antenna and with the noise floor where it is in 2.4, doesn't make much Of a difference. Airspan I have had some experience with ( their wipll platform ) and everything that they claim about it is actually true, So I would naturally assume that this is the same case. Additionally, If they didn't know what they were doing they wouldn't have deployments Like the one they have in japan that has over 25,000 CPE's, ( using the same product ) or the one They have in mexico that has 750,000 clients. - Jeff On 6/8/06 9:31 PM, JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff - how many other platforms have you tooted the horn on that have never produced the results you claimed ? Not trying to rain on your parade here, but every platform you've tooted ranting raves about, has never lived up to it's hype from what I have seen. JohnnyO Wanting to be a believer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front Simple. Since the CPE self provisions and aligns itself, the customer only need to know they need to install the device on their rooftop. And they also have indoor devices that work to maybe a KM or so from the tower but those Are as simple as a customer plugs in the ethernet plug and power and puts The CPE near a window. I honestly doubt anyone will use them, but they Are available. So really zero truck roll? Not really as most customers will want the wisp to install it- but the major benefit is that the CPE's will not require techs to carry a pc or anything other than cabling and tools to set up the roof mount. - Jeff On 6/8/06 8:04 PM, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Color me jaded, but how can you get a zero truck roll CPE in 5.4-5.9 unlicensed? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless jeffrey thomas wrote: Guys, Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8. Unlike most other vendors, they are going to market with their 802.16-2004 5.4-5.9 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for their 802.16-2004 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as the 3 plus years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone can deploy in will be available. So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as of yet, ( and they havent even decided when they will be certifying vendors ) this product will be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade for Wimax forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the 802.16-2004 spec as planned. some notes on the product: initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side of things, 600.00 / cpe 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM full service flow integration for QOS can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment ) full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration authentication provisioning security ) color me excited :) - Jeff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
AirmatrixOS is not starOS and does offer vlans. Its its own web based OS. You can order their stuff with starOS, but that's really only specific custoemrs that order it anymore. - Jeff On 6/8/06 10:03 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Airmatrix does VLAN but its uses StarOS, so it does VLAN the wrong way for some one trying to sell to carriers. If you sell to a carrier, they are going towant to be delivered a minimum of 1500 MTU. StarOS can't do that with VLAN. However, if you didn;t need VLAN, Defacto does give EXCELLENT support. And they ship ONTIME. They aren't the cheapest, but they give the value you are looking for. Mikrotik is the preferred solution if you need to do VLAN. Wisp-Router also offers support. He's been in business now for atleast 10 years. He may charge you by the minute, but not at a rate any higher than Cisco would charge you. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device I could be missing the product you are suggesting, but the only dual radio products I can find our base station products. I not looking for a base station, I am looking for something client facing. Further, I see no mention of VLAN support. -Matt jeffrey thomas wrote: Airmatrix can do that. www.defactowireless.com On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 13:17:30 -0400, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I am looking for a device with the following requirements: * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band * Can support VLANs * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required) * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different VLAN than the Ethernet port * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure Any ideas? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
Lets say you are using vlans to not only segment traffic, but priortize traffic as well. So a double tagged vlan, would give you the ability to create A vlan for segmentation and a VLAN within that vlan for priortization, for additional segmentation as well. I could be wrong though. - Jeff On 6/9/06 7:50 AM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 9 Jun 2006, John Scrivner wrote: Can you or someone explain what double VLAN is? I have never heard of such a thing. How can it be used to help us? Not having read the entire thread, I'm assuming the term double VLAN refers to the ability to create a VLAN (or many) that each have VLANs inside them. There are some places where this may be needed, but it can get to be an extremely complex network. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
Yup. On 6/9/06 8:33 AM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeffrey Thomas = Jeff Booher Jeffrey Thomas Booher actually -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:58 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front Jeffrey Thomas - DOH ! - For some reason I had Jeff Booher on the brain and made mistake of making this post ! ! ! ! Please - pretty please forgive me for mixing you up ? /me holds head down and kicks rocks JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:32 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front Jeff - how many other platforms have you tooted the horn on that have never produced the results you claimed ? Not trying to rain on your parade here, but every platform you've tooted ranting raves about, has never lived up to it's hype from what I have seen. JohnnyO Wanting to be a believer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front Simple. Since the CPE self provisions and aligns itself, the customer only need to know they need to install the device on their rooftop. And they also have indoor devices that work to maybe a KM or so from the tower but those Are as simple as a customer plugs in the ethernet plug and power and puts The CPE near a window. I honestly doubt anyone will use them, but they Are available. So really zero truck roll? Not really as most customers will want the wisp to install it- but the major benefit is that the CPE's will not require techs to carry a pc or anything other than cabling and tools to set up the roof mount. - Jeff On 6/8/06 8:04 PM, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Color me jaded, but how can you get a zero truck roll CPE in 5.4-5.9 unlicensed? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless jeffrey thomas wrote: Guys, Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8. Unlike most other vendors, they are going to market with their 802.16-2004 5.4-5.9 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for their 802.16-2004 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as the 3 plus years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone can deploy in will be available. So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as of yet, ( and they havent even decided when they will be certifying vendors ) this product will be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade for Wimax forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the 802.16-2004 spec as planned. some notes on the product: initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side of things, 600.00 / cpe 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM full service flow integration for QOS can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment ) full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration authentication provisioning security ) color me excited :) - Jeff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 24 dbi Atlas Fox
Mti's are a lot better antenna but a bit more pricey. - Jeff On 6/7/06 9:16 PM, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those MTI's are nice looking product. Nice price too. Have you checked out the pac wireless 5 gig rootennas yet? They are working great for me and they are cheap. George Tom DeReggi wrote: I was thinking Although legal issues involved... (so not indorsing or recommending this idea) An Atlas Fox, mounted inside a MTI 24 dbi Dual Pol antenna w/ stock radio case back, and a custom mod to bypass internal antenna and jumper to the ext antenna connectors, would be less expensive than both a base Fox5800 unit and the 5830SU, and give us 16 more additional DB, which would make it a fantastic combination for a high end business or residential CPE able to survive the noise, upgradable to OFDM, and easy to mount. But most importantly, it would only be one radio CPE type to stock to cover all needs, allowing it to be easier to make quantity orders. In qty 25+, MTI w/ case $245 (maybe a little more with import charges) Atlas Fox $149. Pigtail Jumpers: $15 Total: $409. It would take more time to hack(build), but it would save time by not having to muck with the dish. So why is Trango not doing this yet? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
Airmatrix can do that. www.defactowireless.com On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 13:17:30 -0400, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I am looking for a device with the following requirements: * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band * Can support VLANs * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required) * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different VLAN than the Ethernet port * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure Any ideas? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
Fyi everyone, wrap boards have been discontinued On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 12:45:00 -0500, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If you order it all from wisp-router they will assemble it for your so you would get a die-cast case with the RB mounted the radios and pigtails installed. All you would need to do is set up the software end of things, which could be done with a script once you have the initial setup done. One thing to note, I have not ordered 5Ghz pigtails from wisp-router in quite sometime, but the last time I did order them, their quality was questionable. I would bet if you went the WRAP/StarOS route wisp-router would do the same. No idea on other vendors or the WAR boards as I have never ordered them. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Matt Liotta wrote: I am looking for a device I can buy that does all of this out of the box. I don't want to build my own since I need 30-40 of them in the next 30 days. -Matt Sam Tetherow wrote: Mikrotik on a routerboard 532 should do the trick although I haven't messed with the VLAN stuff. I am not a StarOS user, but I would bet that a StarOS setup on either a WRAP or WAR board would work as well. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Matt Liotta wrote: I am looking for a device with the following requirements: * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band * Can support VLANs * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required) * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different VLAN than the Ethernet port * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure Any ideas? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
Matt, The airmatrix flex can do what you require, i think list on them is around 350 or so but that price is coming down to around 250.00. An additional card shouldnt be too much more per side. - Jeff On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 15:19:35 -0400, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I don't think i am unrealistic. We built a platform from off-the-shelf parts that meets our requirements for under $500. How well that will work outside of our lab coupled with the time it took to build tells us we want nothing to do with building our own. I am aware of what mesh products companies like Tropos offer since we deploy Tropos networks ourselves. However, they don't meet our requirements in some cases and in other cases are overkill for what we need. Ultimately, I willing to pay more than $600 for the unit if it makes sense. I just threw out what I was looking to pay. -Matt Charles Wu wrote: Hi Matt, To throw in a dose of realism -- even if you roll your own Mikrotik solution - it will most likely cost you more than the $300-600 / unit budget that you have (and you get ZERO support =) Example RB532A: $185 SR5: $105 SR2: $105 All that is is a board and 2 radio cards -- then you still need to add in pigtails / poe / enclosures / stand-offs / antennas / PITA factor / etc Then you got to figure out how to make it work =) For a complete, supported w/ manuals/etc, FCC CERTIFIED system -- you will probably be in the $1k+ / unit ballpark (or $3k+ if you go Strix, Tropos, Firetide, Skypilot, etc) -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device I would expect the devices to cost somewhere between $300 and $600 each. As far as support goes, I would expect it to be similar to other low cost radio vendors like Trango, etc. -Matt Sam Tetherow wrote: What are you willing to pay and what are your support requirements? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Matt Liotta wrote: I understand you are suggesting I wouldn't have to psychically build the devices, but that isn't what I am worried about. I want an off-the-shelf product that is supported by a vendor. That includes it being pre-built, software installed, and support available. -Matt Sam Tetherow wrote: If you order it all from wisp-router they will assemble it for your so you would get a die-cast case with the RB mounted the radios and pigtails installed. All you would need to do is set up the software end of things, which could be done with a script once you have the initial setup done. One thing to note, I have not ordered 5Ghz pigtails from wisp-router in quite sometime, but the last time I did order them, their quality was questionable. I would bet if you went the WRAP/StarOS route wisp-router would do the same. No idea on other vendors or the WAR boards as I have never ordered them. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Matt Liotta wrote: I am looking for a device I can buy that does all of this out of the box. I don't want to build my own since I need 30-40 of them in the next 30 days. -Matt Sam Tetherow wrote: Mikrotik on a routerboard 532 should do the trick although I haven't messed with the VLAN stuff. I am not a StarOS user, but I would bet that a StarOS setup on either a WRAP or WAR board would work as well. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Matt Liotta wrote: I am looking for a device with the following requirements: * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band * Can support VLANs * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required) * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different VLAN than the Ethernet port * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure Any ideas? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
my understanding is that the whole board is being disconinued. We were notified of this ( as in pcengines is no longer taking orders ) about 2 weeks ago. I would need to clarify this with david peterson but I am pretty sure that is the case. - Jeff On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:46:09 -0400, KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Discontinued by Wisp-Router.com or all vendors? There's no mention of this on http://www.pcengines.ch Where did you hear this? I recall hearing that the chipset used on the current WRAP platform has been discontinued but to my knowledge, there is a replacement chipset available which will be used on future batches of WRAP boards. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $39.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device Fyi everyone, wrap boards have been discontinued On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 12:45:00 -0500, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If you order it all from wisp-router they will assemble it for your so you would get a die-cast case with the RB mounted the radios and pigtails installed. All you would need to do is set up the software end of things, which could be done with a script once you have the initial setup done. One thing to note, I have not ordered 5Ghz pigtails from wisp-router in quite sometime, but the last time I did order them, their quality was questionable. I would bet if you went the WRAP/StarOS route wisp-router would do the same. No idea on other vendors or the WAR boards as I have never ordered them. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Matt Liotta wrote: I am looking for a device I can buy that does all of this out of the box. I don't want to build my own since I need 30-40 of them in the next 30 days. -Matt Sam Tetherow wrote: Mikrotik on a routerboard 532 should do the trick although I haven't messed with the VLAN stuff. I am not a StarOS user, but I would bet that a StarOS setup on either a WRAP or WAR board would work as well. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Matt Liotta wrote: I am looking for a device with the following requirements: * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band * Can support VLANs * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required) * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different VLAN than the Ethernet port * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure Any ideas? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
Guys, Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8. Unlike most other vendors, they are going to market with their 802.16-2004 5.4-5.9 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for their 802.16-2004 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as the 3 plus years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone can deploy in will be available. So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as of yet, ( and they havent even decided when they will be certifying vendors ) this product will be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade for Wimax forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the 802.16-2004 spec as planned. some notes on the product: initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side of things, 600.00 / cpe 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM full service flow integration for QOS can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment ) full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration authentication provisioning security ) color me excited :) - Jeff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
Simple. Since the CPE self provisions and aligns itself, the customer only need to know they need to install the device on their rooftop. And they also have indoor devices that work to maybe a KM or so from the tower but those Are as simple as a customer plugs in the ethernet plug and power and puts The CPE near a window. I honestly doubt anyone will use them, but they Are available. So really zero truck roll? Not really as most customers will want the wisp to install it- but the major benefit is that the CPE's will not require techs to carry a pc or anything other than cabling and tools to set up the roof mount. - Jeff On 6/8/06 8:04 PM, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Color me jaded, but how can you get a zero truck roll CPE in 5.4-5.9 unlicensed? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless jeffrey thomas wrote: Guys, Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8. Unlike most other vendors, they are going to market with their 802.16-2004 5.4-5.9 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for their 802.16-2004 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as the 3 plus years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone can deploy in will be available. So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as of yet, ( and they havent even decided when they will be certifying vendors ) this product will be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade for Wimax forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the 802.16-2004 spec as planned. some notes on the product: initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side of things, 600.00 / cpe 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM full service flow integration for QOS can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment ) full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration authentication provisioning security ) color me excited :) - Jeff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
IN 2.4Ghz you have the 3-1 rule and a very high noisefloor, practically everywhere. On Thu, 25 May 2006 12:23:22 -0400, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 3.5Ghz does, I find that hard to believe. 2.4Ghz couldn't do it, which is why we rely on 900Mhz. What makes 3.5Ghz appropriate for the task? With 3650 from what I understood, is only supposed to be allowed for PtP or mobile service only (not indoor) based on the high power levels allowed. Not sure whats at the other 3.5G ranges in US. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment The benchmark is the ability to provide NLOS, portable or fixed service to at least a 2 mile radius per cell, indoors. 5.8 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors 5.4 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors 4.9 doesnt really give true NLOS to that disance indoors 3.5Ghz does, to portable devices similar to the equipment used by clearwire. Airspan for example claims their wimax solution works indoors to about 3 miles out, which is pretty good IMHO. When you can deliver a zero truck roll model with 90% or above availablity, is when operators by the truckload will deploy equipment. At that point, you will see deployments in the thousands, like the ones in mexico of 750,000 homes serviced. - Jeff On Thu, 25 May 2006 02:20:23 -0400, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: How do you figure? You don't think 5.4 is going to solve part of that? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Frankly, The FCC should really hurry up and finish the rules to allow the industry to really take off. The common view with most manufacturers I have found is that until there is 3.5ghz or near spectrum available, there will be small and limited deployments of wisp size and not many large scale deployments outside of 2.5ghz or 700 mhz operators. - Jeff On 5/24/06 6:14 AM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All the same time, the industry doesn't bother to fill out their Form 477s also The sad thing is is that there are long term consequences towards flaunting the rules -- namely the fact that you are just reinforcing the ILEC argument that unlicensed spectrum just creates a bunch of cowboys that can't be taken seriously Heck, even Marlon knows better than to wear his skin-tight pink flamingo suit when he represents the industry in DC -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeffrey thomas Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier deployment which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is a test. I know of one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets, for over 2000 CPE. - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to test a single base station? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Gino, Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial service? jack Gino A. Villarini wrote: Towerstream anyone ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Jeffrey, I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO): 1. Someone with no business sense 2. Someone with no appreciation
Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
Frankly, The FCC should really hurry up and finish the rules to allow the industry to really take off. The common view with most manufacturers I have found is that until there is 3.5ghz or near spectrum available, there will be small and limited deployments of wisp size and not many large scale deployments outside of 2.5ghz or 700 mhz operators. - Jeff On 5/24/06 6:14 AM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All the same time, the industry doesn't bother to fill out their Form 477s also The sad thing is is that there are long term consequences towards flaunting the rules -- namely the fact that you are just reinforcing the ILEC argument that unlicensed spectrum just creates a bunch of cowboys that can't be taken seriously Heck, even Marlon knows better than to wear his skin-tight pink flamingo suit when he represents the industry in DC -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeffrey thomas Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier deployment which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is a test. I know of one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets, for over 2000 CPE. - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to test a single base station? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Gino, Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial service? jack Gino A. Villarini wrote: Towerstream anyone ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Jeffrey, I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO): 1. Someone with no business sense 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement powers of the FCC 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term WISP service. jack jeffrey thomas wrote: Patrick, It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that is available today will be compliant. *shrug* - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any commercial services using 3650MHz. - Patrick -Original Message- From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment --- To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - Clarifications Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules back in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. As things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules. Infrastructure Investment Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done strictly from a curiosity
Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
Comments inline. Even given the 5% of WISP operators who intentionally run too much power, I don't feel their lawlessness is as serious as someone who receives a experimental license under false pretenses and then unlawfully profits from their lawbreaking. Considering the band with be a part-15 band, I don't see why its Nearly as a big deal as someone taking a band that would have been Auctioned off for thousands upon thousands of dollars. By the way, which company has twenty-eight 3.6 GHz special temporary authorizations (STAs)in 14 markets and is allegedly selling commercial service to 2000 subscribers? I can't say due to non disclosure agreements. The funny thing about them Is they got the STA's and have yet to really use them, so all the money They spent on lawyers obtaining the STA's is going to waste anyways. jack jeffrey thomas wrote: Jack, The same would probably apply to the hundreds of WISP's who operate systems that break the part-15 rules regarding power output. While it is illegal, I currently am unaware of any operators who have recieved fines or anything of the sort for such behavior but it happens. Do I encourage this? no, but as Steve Stroh once told me, The FCC generally turns a blind eye until someone complains. - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 15:56:03 -0700, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jeffrey, I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO): 1. Someone with no business sense 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement powers of the FCC 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term WISP service. jack jeffrey thomas wrote: Patrick, It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that is available today will be compliant. *shrug* - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any commercial services using 3650MHz. - Patrick -Original Message- From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment --- To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - Clarifications Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules back in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. As things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules. Infrastructure Investment Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial network expansion. Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The rules provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules. Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to conduct the following type of operations: (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research (b) Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. (c)Communications essential to a research project. (d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling
Re: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License
Actually, on the Ap Side Airspan is around 5000.00 and 400 or so for the CPE. - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:43:29 -0500 (CDT), Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Tue, 23 May 2006, Jon Langeler wrote: If your looking for equipment manufacturers, you'll be looking at companies like IPwireless, Flarion, etc... Typically $50-100K per base station/sector deployment... WaveIP and Airspan both have gear in the 700MHz band. WaveIP is around $1500 for AP and $500-700 for CPE (I don't recall). Airspan is about $8k for the AP (if I recall correctly) and a little under $500 per CPE. Both of these would be a good choice. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License
www.airmatrix.com On Tue, 23 May 2006 09:25:51 -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: So where is my danged wifi cpe that can keep a list of 36 ap's and is smart enough to switch between them automatically? sheesh I could have sold thousands of these over the 2 years since I've asked for that product! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:01 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License Most of these muni projects are basing the 700 Mhz on the public safety band that is not yet available. High speed roaming is the application not broadband. I know the Wimax Forum is at least looking at the band for e which fits the mold. Every public safety entity I have talked with in the last 2 months does not want a proprietary approach. They want standards based gear. Brad -Original Message- From: Butch Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License On Tue, 23 May 2006, Jon Langeler wrote: If your looking for equipment manufacturers, you'll be looking at companies like IPwireless, Flarion, etc... Typically $50-100K per base station/sector deployment... WaveIP and Airspan both have gear in the 700MHz band. WaveIP is around $1500 for AP and $500-700 for CPE (I don't recall). Airspan is about $8k for the AP (if I recall correctly) and a little under $500 per CPE. Both of these would be a good choice. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
sure. On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:58:34 -0700, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I understood that the 3650 was not to be used in commercial links. I'm assuming money makes it commercial. I would like to deploy a couple links for non paying situations, cameras for a city park. I'd also like to have the licenseand not be wasting my limited unlicensed spectrum. Do you think this is a legit use for 3650? George Patrick Leary wrote: Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any commercial services using 3650MHz. - Patrick -Original Message- From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment --- To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - Clarifications Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules back in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. As things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules. Infrastructure Investment Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial network expansion. Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The rules provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules. Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to conduct the following type of operations: (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research (b) Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. (c)Communications essential to a research project. (d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. (i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. (j) Limited market studies. (k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon demonstration of need 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will be issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing radio waves for scientific or technical operation data directly related to a use of radio not provided by existing rules; or for communications in connection with research projects when existing communications facilities are inadequate. 47CFR5.63: Supplementary Statements (a)Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental Radio Service must enclose with the application a narrative statement describing in detail the program of research and experimentation proposed, the specific objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the program of experimentation has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development, extension, or expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not already investigated. For further information regarding experimental licensing, the FCC has a nice online FAQ that gives a step-by-step how-to on experimental licensing: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
Patrick, It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that is available today will be compliant. *shrug* - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any commercial services using 3650MHz. - Patrick -Original Message- From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment --- To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - Clarifications Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules back in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. As things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules. Infrastructure Investment Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial network expansion. Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The rules provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules. Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to conduct the following type of operations: (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research (b) Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. (c)Communications essential to a research project. (d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. (i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. (j) Limited market studies. (k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon demonstration of need 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will be issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing radio waves for scientific or technical operation data directly related to a use of radio not provided by existing rules; or for communications in connection with research projects when existing communications facilities are inadequate. 47CFR5.63: Supplementary Statements (a)Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental Radio Service must enclose with the application a narrative statement describing in detail the program of research and experimentation proposed, the specific objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the program of experimentation has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development, extension, or expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not already investigated. For further information regarding experimental licensing, the FCC has a nice online FAQ that gives a step-by-step how-to on experimental licensing: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
Jack, The same would probably apply to the hundreds of WISP's who operate systems that break the part-15 rules regarding power output. While it is illegal, I currently am unaware of any operators who have recieved fines or anything of the sort for such behavior but it happens. Do I encourage this? no, but as Steve Stroh once told me, The FCC generally turns a blind eye until someone complains. - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 15:56:03 -0700, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jeffrey, I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO): 1. Someone with no business sense 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement powers of the FCC 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term WISP service. jack jeffrey thomas wrote: Patrick, It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that is available today will be compliant. *shrug* - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any commercial services using 3650MHz. - Patrick -Original Message- From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment --- To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - Clarifications Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules back in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. As things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules. Infrastructure Investment Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial network expansion. Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The rules provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules. Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to conduct the following type of operations: (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research (b) Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. (c)Communications essential to a research project. (d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. (i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. (j) Limited market studies. (k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon demonstration of need 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will be issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing radio waves for scientific or technical operation
RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
Wow, I think I heard a bell ring somewhere. - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 20:58:32 -0400, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Towerstream anyone ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Jeffrey, I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO): 1. Someone with no business sense 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement powers of the FCC 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term WISP service. jack jeffrey thomas wrote: Patrick, It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that is available today will be compliant. *shrug* - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any commercial services using 3650MHz. - Patrick -Original Message- From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment --- To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - Clarifications Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules back in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. As things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules. Infrastructure Investment Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial network expansion. Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The rules provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules. Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to conduct the following type of operations: (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research (b) Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. (c)Communications essential to a research project. (d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. (i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. (j) Limited market studies. (k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon demonstration of need 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will be issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing radio waves for scientific or technical operation data
RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier deployment which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is a test. I know of one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets, for over 2000 CPE. - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to test a single base station? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Gino, Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial service? jack Gino A. Villarini wrote: Towerstream anyone ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Jeffrey, I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO): 1. Someone with no business sense 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement powers of the FCC 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term WISP service. jack jeffrey thomas wrote: Patrick, It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that is available today will be compliant. *shrug* - Jeff On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any commercial services using 3650MHz. - Patrick -Original Message- From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment --- To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - Clarifications Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules back in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. As things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules. Infrastructure Investment Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial network expansion. Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The rules provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules. Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to conduct the following type of operations: (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research (b) Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. (c)Communications essential to a research project. (d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. (h)Development of radio
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 space
That wouldn't be correct- because the 2.4 access and 4.9 distribution layers are 2 different things. So essentially the distribution layer would only be legal for the muni to connect to ( the 4.9 layer ) - Jeff On 5/10/06 12:30 AM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bump... On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Butch Evans wrote: On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: However, no public traffic can run over the network. You can use a public network to feed a 4.9 system that you manage for the license holder. You can NOT use 4.9 to transport public traffic though. Don't take this like I don't believe what you are saying...This is just a question. Trango is offering a new mesh solution that they call HD Mesh. From what I understand, it is targeted for muni-wireless deployment. It uses 2.4GHz AP and 4.9GHz backhaul. If what you say is correct, is this system then limited to be used ONLY by the municipality and no other end users may connect to it? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax Hardware for sale?
Aperto packetwave is your best bet then, contact me off list for details. - Jeff On 5/5/06 8:10 AM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patrick Leary wrote: But which WiMAX are you talking about? There are lots of versions and the one version that no one has...and no one should be clamoring for just yet...is unlicensed WiMAX. I am certainly looking for WiMAX features such as spectral efficiency in 5 Ghz unlicensed gear right now. I don't really care about the standard. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What's next for the forward looking WISP?
HEY NOW, out here in eastern washington we dont need none of that high falootin facts to back up our research. as the great steven cobert would say, we just know if something is right, based on our gut feelings. ;) Jeff On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:29:08 -0600, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Marlon, We started offering wireless in 1997. By your 1999 days, we had hundreds of customers installed and running with high speed service. It's possible your stats are a little skewed. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: http://www.isp-planet.com/fixed_wireless/business/2006/lines.html Let the argument begin! grin Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo BH
Title: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo BH The biggest issue I have heard or seen with tranzeo BHs is if you are running a flat network ( ie your pops are not routed @ the edge ) they have a lot of trouble passing a large bridge table. - Jeff On 4/26/06 12:21 PM, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please reply onlist as I would be interested also. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: chris cooper mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo BH Has anyone had any experience = or with the Tranzeo 5a 32 or the 5amp 32? The claims are 25 and 40 miles respectively. Im wondering about reliability and performance at those distances. Hit me off list if you can advise. Thanks, Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Leasing IP classes?
Hey folks, I was wondering if anyone knew of companies that lease class C's to small ISP's looking for the ablity to announce the leased IP classes as their own As to avoid being locked in to a specific provider. Please let me know If you know of anyone. Best, Jeff Booher -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Leasing IP classes?
Arin isnt an option I don't think because these guys arent multi-homed yet. - Jeff On 4/25/06 9:35 AM, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, April 25, 2006 11:26 am, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: I was wondering if anyone knew of companies that lease class C's to small ISP's looking for the ablity to announce the leased IP classes as their own As to avoid being locked in to a specific provider. Please let me know If you know of anyone. I can't think of anyone that does that, mostly because it'd be a pain in the ass to get those IPs routed properly. There are just too many BGP speakers out there that don't properly handle un-aggregated BGP announcements, and do other silly things. Your best bet, if you're big enough, is to get a direct allocation from ARIN (assuming you're in the United States or Canadia). If you're multihomed, like you probably should be :D you can get allocations as long as a /22 (four class Cs). If not, I think the minimum allocation is a /20 (sixteen class Cs). David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Matt, hit me offlist and I will be glad to send you all that. We have used AM for deployments on lightpoles and I know there are configurations available to power more than a single unit. - Jeff On 4/24/06 1:42 PM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similar is not the same. I couldn't find detailed specifications online. However, I do see that the unit has lower transmit power, it doesn't seem to be capable of being powered by AC, it doesn't seem capable of powering other devices such as a Canopy or Trango SM, and while there is a picture of some separate photo-cell power there is no specifications for that either. For example, many photo-cell taps are limited to 240v, but many street lights are 277v/480v. -Matt Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Airmatrix offers very similar features for less than 1/3 the cost of tropos. They also ofer Pole mounted power, and actually have a much lower power consumption, in addition to having multiple configurations including dual Radio diversity 2.4, dual radio diversity 2.4/5.8, etc. - Jeff On 4/24/06 10:27 AM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A Tropos unit has a 1W transmitter, is capable of being powered via PoE or via AC delivered through standard outlets as well as a variety of photo-cell taps including high-voltage ones. When powered with AC, it is capable of providing PoE power out of its Ethernet ports supporting equipment from Motorola and Trango even though neither using standard PoE. It mounts like a dream, includes level bubbles for perfect orientation, and units can be slid into and out of place with only a single screw enabling nodes to be changed in less than 5 minutes. Quite simply, a Tropos unit is beautifully engineered. Where can I find the parts to make the same thing in a single package? -Matt chris cooper wrote: Why not just buy the cards, boards, antennas and make a few yourself? c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes Then there are companies like airmatrix that charge less than 1k per node. The key with mesh is density, and many mesh startup's fail because they Underbuild their networks. - Jeff On 4/24/06 7:53 AM, John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what equipment they are using, but Cisco AP1500's (mesh) are abnout $3700 each and Cisco recommends 18-20 per square mile. Thats $74,000 for the boxes plus antennas, mounts, POE and install. John -Original Message- From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM To: ''WISPA General List'' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes $173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat.. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/312 - Release Date: 4/14/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] do you use tranzeo?
I am trying to find out how many folks out there use low cost CPE like tranzeo. please hit me off list if you do. Best, Jeff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best system for a new WISP
agreed, VL is far from carrier grade On Apr 12, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Charles Wu wrote: snip Motorola designed Canopy specifically for the WISP market, not the carrier market. Alvarion designed VL specifically for the carrier market, not the WISP market. /snip Ah, the mis-perceptions of the rugged metal enclosure =) Steve, can you please explain why carriers would prefer a CSMA/CA over a scheduled (WiMAX-like) MAC? Thanks -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Stroh Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best system for a new WISP Thanks, Steve On Apr 11, 2006, at 18:55, Dylan Oliver wrote: How is any product qualified as 'Carrier-Grade'? What is it about Alvarion VL that makes the cut vs. Canopy? Lord knows Motorola produces far more 'Carrier-Grade' equipment than Alvarion ever will - so where did they go wrong with Canopy? Also, I've heard lately several complaints that Waverider has trouble sustaining even 1 Mbps throughput ... what is your experience, John? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC-- --- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 4.9GHz gear
Airspan has an 802.16a 4.9 product ( Not wimax, because there is no interoperability and no profile for interop in 4.9 for wimax ) that they just got certified with the FCC. Give me an email if you want some pricing.-JeffOn Apr 10, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Jason Hensley wrote: Anyone have some pricing on this gear? I have a possible deployment for it. I've got Airaya pricing. Only other one I can find is Alvarion. Any other manufacturers out there? And yes, I understand what this band is and who can use it :-) Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
Agreed- interop is a great thing steve, but the problem is that currently no wimax profile requires any level of interop beyond simple bridging, which most operators will find that they want to use the QOS features so they can sell services such as voip. are these products i mentioned using the 802.16 intel chips? yes. To me thats what determines if something is Wimax grade or not. - Jeff On Apr 5, 2006, at 9:02 AM, Matt Liotta wrote: The entire point of WiMAX may be interoperability, but from a fixed wireless standpoint interoperability is meaningless. When and if mobile WiMAX becomes interesting interoperability will be important. Until then there is no need for it in a fixed wireless network, so the certification badge isn't desirable. What is desirable is the capabilities of the radios. We certainly want to see 802.16-based radios in 5.8Ghz. -Matt Steve Stroh wrote: Jeff: If a system hasn't been through the interoperability testing, it ISN'T WiMAX - at all. Absent the certification of interoperability, at best what the vendors will be shipping and selling prior to achieving certification is a proprietary product with perhaps some WiMAX features. Vendors have been known to change their mind about guaranteeing upgrade to final specifications and likely a number of vendors will ship products and completely eschew the formalities of WiMAX interoperability certification. Nothing wrong with that unless they try to pull a fast one trying to associate such products with WiMAX, implying interoperability, where none is actually guaranteed. There is not, and cannot be, 4.9 GHz WiMAX products because there is not, nor is there likely to be, a WiMAX Forum profile for 4.9 GHz given that band is US only, and the US is projected to be a minor market for WiMAX gear. So those vendors that claim to be, or soon will be, shipping 4.9 GHz WiMAX gear are in fact shipping a PROPRIETARY system; absent WiMAX certification, there's no guarantee whatsoEVER of interoperability. The entire POINT of WiMAX is interoperability! The market is going to have to sort out the vendors who falsely claim WiMAX for their systems; apparently the WiMAX Forum has no intention of doing so. Thanks, Steve On Apr 4, 2006, at 21:37, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: That is correct, however those companies are expected to be shipping product ( and are taking pre orders ) that will comply with the testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get off their collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for example, already has wimax 4.9 product and is getting FCC certification. So in conclusion, yes on product, no on the interop profile or tests yet. - Jeff --- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
On Apr 5, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Charles Wu wrote: snip That is correct, however those companies are expected to be shipping product ( and are taking pre orders ) that will comply with the testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get off their collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for example, already has wimax 4.9 product and is getting FCC certification. So in conclusion, yes on product, no on the interop profile or tests yet. /snip Basically, a roadmap to WiMAX? no, product with the 802.16 chipsets and SDR so that they can be easily changed to fit whatever the wimaxforum decides is the profile. So -- this leads one to ask -- how guaranteed is a roadmap to WiMAX? the question should be- are they using 802.16 compliant technology? not whether or not they got the cutsey wimax sticker. Seriously, right now the wimax forum does not give a rats ass about the US market. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
Okay, we could both agree that a simple bridge mode system with no level of QOS, no ability to segment traffic flows between CBR/CIR/BE, would be pretty pointless right? then it would be simple best effort only services you could sell on a given link or base station. So while company A may be selling an 802.16 product without service flow segmentation its only a dumb bridge network, which you might as well go with a cheaper 802.11 based product then if the QoS is of no concern. - Jeff On Apr 5, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Charles Wu wrote: Hi Jeff, Out of curiosity, since QoS base WiMAX certification currently are mutually exclusive, how does having QoS allow one manufacturer to have product that's more WiMAX than another (not to say that QoS makes a product better, but that's a whole different argument) -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? George, I am sure there will be others, but likely the first will be Airspan ( May is Beta ) and Aperto ( shipping in June ). Redline likely will have product as well, but based on the fact that both Aperto and Airspan have considerable experience with QOS PTMP, I would think they will have the only great product out there. As well, on the CPE front, there are a number of taiwanese ODM's expected to announce sub 300 dollar integrated CPE. - Jeff On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:28 PM, George wrote: Ok, so far Jeff is the only one to say that unlicended Wimax will be available with Aperto and Airspan. What do you know Charles? George Charles Wu wrote: Alvarion VL is based on a WiFi chipset (this isn't meant to knock Alvarion, since almost every 5 GHz PtMP WISP manufacturered product out there is also based on a similar chipset) Alvarion BreezeMAX (they're product pending WiMAX certification) doesn't operate in 5 GHz -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? I thought Alvarion was Wimax, or wimax-able, or wimax compatible, or software-flashable to wimax. Wimax-ilicious, or something. pd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George From what we have seen most of the unlicensed WIMAX will come into its own in the first half of 2007. The limitation for low cost units comes down to the chipsets, we have tested prototype mini-pci WIMAX radios (5Ghz) but they are far from ready for prime time. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX? Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
Actually, I would argue that the great thing about wimax is not really interop- its lower costs on CPE. Until there is an agreed upon profile for WImax QOS, then literally everyone who buys wimax base stations will use the same manufacturers client devices. The only major difference is CPE cost, which will be in the sub 300 range by mid 07. Now all the propritary systems on the market currently cant deliver the level of service that wimax equipment can, with the same projected CPE cost. - Jeff On Apr 5, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Steve Stroh wrote: Matt: The capabilities of WiMAX ALREADY exist in the proprietary products of Alvarion, Redline, Aperto Networks, etc. WiMAX is a standardization of the lowest-common-denominator of those capabilities, with certified interoperability. If you've waited this long for WiMAX capabilities, and don't care about interoperability... you've waited several years longer than you needed to. Thanks, Steve On Apr 5, 2006, at 09:02, Matt Liotta wrote: The entire point of WiMAX may be interoperability, but from a fixed wireless standpoint interoperability is meaningless. When and if mobile WiMAX becomes interesting interoperability will be important. Until then there is no need for it in a fixed wireless network, so the certification badge isn't desirable. What is desirable is the capabilities of the radios. We certainly want to see 802.16-based radios in 5.8Ghz. -Matt --- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
Indeed. Alvarion is not expected to request wimax certification until they determine a WIMAX approved QOS mechanism, at least thats what I have heard as well. - Jeff On Apr 4, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Charles Wu wrote: Alvarion VL is based on a WiFi chipset (this isn't meant to knock Alvarion, since almost every 5 GHz PtMP WISP manufacturered product out there is also based on a similar chipset) Alvarion BreezeMAX (they're product pending WiMAX certification) doesn't operate in 5 GHz -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? I thought Alvarion was Wimax, or wimax-able, or wimax compatible, or software-flashable to wimax. Wimax-ilicious, or something. pd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George From what we have seen most of the unlicensed WIMAX will come into its own in the first half of 2007. The limitation for low cost units comes down to the chipsets, we have tested prototype mini-pci WIMAX radios (5Ghz) but they are far from ready for prime time. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX? Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
George, I am sure there will be others, but likely the first will be Airspan ( May is Beta ) and Aperto ( shipping in June ). Redline likely will have product as well, but based on the fact that both Aperto and Airspan have considerable experience with QOS PTMP, I would think they will have the only great product out there. As well, on the CPE front, there are a number of taiwanese ODM's expected to announce sub 300 dollar integrated CPE. - Jeff On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:28 PM, George wrote: Ok, so far Jeff is the only one to say that unlicended Wimax will be available with Aperto and Airspan. What do you know Charles? George Charles Wu wrote: Alvarion VL is based on a WiFi chipset (this isn't meant to knock Alvarion, since almost every 5 GHz PtMP WISP manufacturered product out there is also based on a similar chipset) Alvarion BreezeMAX (they're product pending WiMAX certification) doesn't operate in 5 GHz -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? I thought Alvarion was Wimax, or wimax-able, or wimax compatible, or software-flashable to wimax. Wimax-ilicious, or something. pd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George From what we have seen most of the unlicensed WIMAX will come into its own in the first half of 2007. The limitation for low cost units comes down to the chipsets, we have tested prototype mini-pci WIMAX radios (5Ghz) but they are far from ready for prime time. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX? Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
That is correct, however those companies are expected to be shipping product ( and are taking pre orders ) that will comply with the testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get off their collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for example, already has wimax 4.9 product and is getting FCC certification. So in conclusion, yes on product, no on the interop profile or tests yet. - Jeff On Apr 4, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Steve Stroh wrote: Neat trick... considering... There is not yet a WiMAX 5.8 GHz interoperability profile. Because there is not yet a WiMAX 5.8 GHz WiMAX interoperability profile, there have not yet been any 5.8 GHz interoperability tests. Because there has not yet been any WiMAX 5.8 GHz interoperability tests, there cannot be any WiMAX 5.8 GHz products certified as having completed the tests and declared interoperable. And, unless a product has been through the interoperability tests and declared interoperable, it cannot use the WiMAX brand name. Nope - no _5.8 GHz_ (license-exempt is assumed) WiMAX products. PERHAPS by year end... but I suspect it will be longer given that the vendors are going to be VERY busy selling all the 3.5 GHz (licensed, non-US markets) gear they can make AND getting Mobile WiMAX out will consume the available interoperability testing facilities and the attentions of the Mobile portions of the WiMAX industry. 5.8 GHz WiMAX is kind of an afterthought at the moment for the WiMAX industry. Thanks, Steve On Apr 4, 2006, at 11:37, jeffrey thomas wrote: George, Yes there is. Airspan and Aperto both have products and are taking orders now. - Jeff On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:16:46 -0700, George [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX? Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks George --- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fwd: Bellevue WISP ??
Can anyone help someone at this address?Begin forwarded message:From: "Ian Haight" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: April 3, 2006 5:25:47 PM PDTTo: "'Jeff Booher'" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Bellevue WISP ?? Here is the address.. 1621 114th ave SE Bellevue, WA 98004 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?
If your contract with a tower specifies that you hold access rights to spectrum within the bands whether you are USING THEM currently, or not using them currently, then I would suppose your exclusive rights would hold up, but am unaware of any legal precedence to show this. There was a company that had a similar contract on the BOA tower in seattle that tried using this without any success as well, when I was with another firm a few years back. Reality is there is no exclusive rights to bands within unlicensed. ( my 2 cents) - Jeff On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:06:23 -0600, Dylan Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Huh. What's the difference between quasi and true exclusive rights? What *would* hold up? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?
they tried to sue us :)-JeffOn Jan 23, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: http://www.verilan.com/ I was hoping to have a closer additional source for things (I always try to have more than one) and these people have some stuff I use listed for sale at decent prices. But, over the course of about 3 days, and approximately 30 phone calls to thier number, I never managed to reach a live person. I tried accounting, tech support, sales, etc. I lost track of the number of times I called, but I called everywhere between morning, after 5, mid-day, etc. I realize this isn't saying much positive about them, I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of them or done business with them. Thanks North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot netsales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot netFast Internet, NO WIRES!--- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?
It was over some tower and access rights issues regarding spectrum. They signed some quasi exclusive rights agreement with a tower company, which didnt hold up so they dropped the suit.-JeffOn Jan 31, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Dylan Oliver wrote:Oh shit. I just realized that both "Primaverity" and "Verilan" contain the element "veri". Maybe they'll sue me, too! They own the Local Area Network of Truth!.. But I've got got the Original claim to Truth. On 1/31/06, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: they tried to sue us :)-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!
I dont know of anyone manufacturing a 700mhz or below 2.5ghz wimax product yet. I doubt we will see anything in those bands.-JeffOn Jan 20, 2006, at 6:55 AM, Blair Davis wrote: If it really works. All the results I have seen show that WiMax equipment is gonna help the guys with NLoS issues in the city and other built up areas. Not those of us out here with the great tree infestation. I really think the only thing that will help us out here where the trees are is a lower frequency say below 700MHzJeffrey Thomas wrote: All, Before everyone jumps for joy, Wimax CPE and base stations will be priced as low as 2250 / Sector for a fully integrated version ( all odu ) and CPE are expected to drop immediately to as low as 220-250. Then again, in the US markets that wont matter until at the earliest, may or june. - Jeff On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:Trango Introduces New $149 WISP Subscriber Unit— Lowest priced fixed wireless modem available —SAN DIEGO, CA — January 18, 2006 - Trango Broadband Wireless, the leader in fixed broadband wireless equipment, introduced a major addition to its product line which will enable Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs) to, for the first time, compete head-to-head against cable and DSL providers with the high performance Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, priced at just $149 and capable of internet transmission speeds from 10 to 30 Mbps. “We truly believe that the introduction of the Atlas Fox wireless modem is the sea change event that will transform the wireless internet service market into a consumer mass-market service capable of out-competing cable and DSL delivery methods,” said Zdravko Divjak, CEO and President of Trango Broadband Wireless. “This product is eliminating the final obstacle toward nationwide deployments of fixed broadband wireless networks capable of serving millions of users coast to coast.”“There’s nothing lite about the Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU,” said Todd Easterling, Vice President of Worldwide Marketing for Trango Broadband Wireless. “This product offers the industry’s highest performance and at a dramatic price breakthrough. Our engineers have outdone themselves on this one, and many of the wireless internet service providers who have Beta-tested the Atlas Fox are raving about the price to performance ratio. To provide real 10 Mbps to their subscribers, at only $149 for the CPE (consumer premise equipment), enables WISPs to offer high-speed internet access to an entirely new market. More than ever, the return on investment and break-even points for WISPs deploying Trango are measurably superior to our competitors,” added Mr. Easterling. “Over the past few months we have clearly seen the cost and design benefits associated with controlling the entire product development and sales process—from engineering specification, to radios rolling off the production line of our own state-of-the-art factory in San Diego, to the direct sales model for the U.S. market. And most importantly, we’re passing on many of these benefits to our customers.” Trango’s Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, which can reach internet subscribers over twelve miles away from an Access Point (AP), currently provides upload and download speeds up to 10Mbps, and is upgradeable to speeds over 30Mbps. This provides a platform for next generation internet services known as the “triple play” (voice, video and data). In contrast, cable and telephone/DSL companies generally offer service between 1 Mbps and 6 Mbps bandwidth for downloads, and between 128 Kbps and 768 Kbps for uploads. Trango is taking orders for the Atlas Fox now. Shipments begin February 7 th, 2006. Larry A Weidig wrote: Go to the web site, $149 CPE. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!! Have they produced a product that can pass 1Gbps full-duplex with a -92 signal in a NLOS environment? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2006 19:01 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!! Come on... they are lowering prices? Atlas will be $100 for cpe? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!! Whooa - - I got a phone call yesterday from Trango that made me smile all over! Guys and Gals - - - -- hang on as we are about to enter the Twilight Zone!! Trango has some news that is gonna make all of us smile deep, long and wide!!! I am not at liberty to disclose the info - - but they will in a day or two from what I
Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!
Because in 6 months, you will be able to buy a Wimax Cpe for 200 bucks. - Jeff On Jan 18, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Hope that affects the price of everything else, at this point who would by an 802.11a cpe for $250 when you can buy a trango for $150? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!! Well MAC.Did we find the right news? Or is there more??? Mac Dearman wrote: Whooa - - I got a phone call yesterday from Trango that made me smile all over! Guys and Gals - - - -- hang on as we are about to enter the Twilight Zone!! Trango has some news that is gonna make all of us smile deep, long and wide!!! I am not at liberty to disclose the info - - but they will in a day or two from what I understand. Man its gonna be G R E A T!! giggling like a little girl Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4227 318.303.4229 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/233 - Release Date: 1/18/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring
Additionally on the whole co-op idea, there are different non profits for co-op's, which wispa is not set up as. - Jeff On Jan 5, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Charles Wu wrote: Tom, Your idea is sound, but personally, I would think that what you propose falls into the same category as the WISP Buying Coop IMO, WISPA needs to focus on talking / lobbying in front of the FCC Now, if WISPA members want to get together and form such a CoOp -- go for it Btw...Part-15 I believe has some sort of wholesale VoIP program for its members (through Nuvio?)... -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring Matt Larson, I do not have adequate experience to pass judgement on your suggested configuration. However I will add, base on my recent Rant regarding Wholesale VOIP providers that don't look at small WISPs as valuable partners, I believe leveraging WISPA membership base to negotiate a good deal for us all is a good idea. I believe WISPA should agree to endorse a wholesale provider in exchange for them to be required to give partnership to 100% of WISPA member's that request partnership. I'd be willing to waive my personal preference of providers in favor of selecting a VOIP wholesaler that supports WISPs and recognizes our consolidated numbers as worthy partners. WISPA then could also act as a mechanism to more effectively distribute reocurring changing information to the membership so the Wholesaler only has to do it once. Many discussion have been had on what ventures should be explored by WISPA for the benefit of the membership, that would not be in conflict with the services that the members themselves already provided, and was in line with the goals of the organization adn what it is intented to be. Facilitating a group deal for VOIP is one of those things that I think would be a great thing for WISPA to do. But its got to be an all or nothing deal, meaning vendor accepts all WISPA members that are interested, as a condition of agreement. Negotiate once, replicate many. The reality is most WISPs are not the size alone to have any weight to negotiate. Maybe a few guys like Travis have enough volume, but not the majority of us. I'd be willing to donate time to that cause if needed, wether it be determining the requirements needed in an agreement or distributing the info after the fact. Whether the provider be you, Matt Liotta, or a national carrier is irrelevant to me. I just believe that WISPs will own at least 15% of the nations broadband subscribers at some point, and I believe that that is a significant enough market share that there has got to be someone with enough brains to realize the value of WISP partners, to the extent that they will offer favorable terms to the organization. My concern is that most VOIP providers (that value partnerships) home in on business managed PBX VOIP solutions. Although I do not dispute their reasoning for that, that does not help WISPs nationwide, whose businesses may include a large amount of residential focus as well. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring I don't believe you will find good margins with the setup you are specifying. Additionally, you can forget about fax working, which is an absolute requirement for businesses. If anyone on this list wants to do VoIP over wireless, figure out how to do fax before committing to the business. From experience I can tell you that it cost us an enormous amount of money to get fax working with Asterisk. -Matt Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Hello all, After a year and a half of watching, jumping in and learning about VOIP, I think I have come up with a way to implement it with a relatively low budget setup. Here is my very general outline of how to deliver VOIP on a shoestring: 1) Asterisk server with AMP (Asterisk Management Portal): This is a great soho phone system, but on the right machine it appears that it can also be used as a production VOIP server. The key is that it uses MySQL databases for the extension and trunk configurations. Another necessity - G.729 codec licensing. G.729, GSM and ilbc codecs work great on wireless - even garden variety wifi. AMP has a nice web-based interface for maintenance and a decent website for checking voice mail and account usage. 2) Freeside billing server - Freeside can be modified to submit the necessary variables for voip service to an AMP box. That means that the
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform
There are operators who applied for say, an experimental license with 500 subscribers testing the RF portion of the service. It is a risk, but since that spectrum is slated to be unlicensed, I doubt the risk is too great. - Jeff On Jan 5, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Charles Wu wrote: Yes -- experimental licenses have been available for quite some time now -- we have one =) But if you read the FCC rules closely -- there are A LOT of limitations, and no, running a business off such a license is a BAD IDEA -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 2:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform This has been discussed in depth on the private WISPA list. The FCC is giving 3.65Ghz licenses for experimental purposes, which you can use to provide customers with service. However, it may not be a wise business decision to rely on experimental spectrum, which can go away at any time. -Matt Charles Wu wrote: Hi Matt, Can you please shed some light on your 3.65 GHz license? To my knowledge (and we work with the FCC on licensing almost on a daily basis) -- 3.65 GHz is not yet legally licensable for commercial common carrier applications -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform Is there any vendor besides Aperto that has product that will work with our 3.65Ghz license? -Matt Brad Larson wrote: Jeff, LOL. Be careful who you're listening to. Like I said, there is allot of total BS out there being spread by certain people/manufacturer's. There are several waves of certifications coming. Just because we didn't show up for the first wave doesn't mean we don't have a product. When the others get caught up Alvarion will be there for the real test phases. Brad http://www.techworld.com/mobility/features/index.cfm?featureID=2021 http://www.alvarion-usa.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2109/ http://www.alvarion-usa.com/presscenter/pressreleases/ -Original Message- From: jeffrey thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:50 PM To: WISPA General List; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform 3.5 / 2.5 / 5.8 Alvarion I believe from what I heard was waiting for the QOS revision to be agreed on. - Jeff On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:34:42 -0800 , Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jeff, In what Frequency? There is allot of BS out there in the first wave of testing for those that have yet to get a product to market. We can discuss if you would like? Brad -Original Message- From: jeffrey thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:29 PM To: WISPA General List; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform The only product on the market today that will have backwards compatibility to wimax where a cpe can talk to a wimax base station is Aperto. Additionally, Alvarion will not be one of the first round products certified for wimax, Airspan and Aperto however, will be. - Jeff On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:22:30 -0600, John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Is there a firmware upgrade path for WiMAX through the VL product line or is it a hardware change? Feel free to have someone contact me offlist for pricing information. I have a need for a PtMP system with more capacity than I have now with my current system. I do not know of many systems that meet the specs you list here and I already know many people are quite fond of the product. Maybe this time the price won't drive me away as has been the case in the past. Please do not take that as a slam. It is not. I know the quality is there and it is a matter of economics for me only that has ever kept me away from Alvarion products. You guys build good stuff and in some markets the price is easily recovered through ROI. Thanks, Scriv Brad Larson wrote: John, Typically 4 sector base stations are built with either 5.3 or a licensed link as backhaul. With BreezeAccess VL, true data sector performance is 28 meg's in a 20 Mhz channel and half that in 10 Mhz Next firmware release is going to mid 30's in a 20 Mhz channel (again true data rates). I know of one sector that has 200 sub's attached although most sectors have less than 100. This customer looked at most manufacturer's gear and concluded Alvarion had the management feature sets, ease of batch processing for firmware uploads, obstructed
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform
The only product on the market today that will have backwards compatibility to wimax where a cpe can talk to a wimax base station is Aperto. Additionally, Alvarion will not be one of the first round products certified for wimax, Airspan and Aperto however, will be. - Jeff On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:22:30 -0600, John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Is there a firmware upgrade path for WiMAX through the VL product line or is it a hardware change? Feel free to have someone contact me offlist for pricing information. I have a need for a PtMP system with more capacity than I have now with my current system. I do not know of many systems that meet the specs you list here and I already know many people are quite fond of the product. Maybe this time the price won't drive me away as has been the case in the past. Please do not take that as a slam. It is not. I know the quality is there and it is a matter of economics for me only that has ever kept me away from Alvarion products. You guys build good stuff and in some markets the price is easily recovered through ROI. Thanks, Scriv Brad Larson wrote: John, Typically 4 sector base stations are built with either 5.3 or a licensed link as backhaul. With BreezeAccess VL, true data sector performance is 28 meg's in a 20 Mhz channel and half that in 10 Mhz Next firmware release is going to mid 30's in a 20 Mhz channel (again true data rates). I know of one sector that has 200 sub's attached although most sectors have less than 100. This customer looked at most manufacturer's gear and concluded Alvarion had the management feature sets, ease of batch processing for firmware uploads, obstructed NLOS for their application, and a host of other likes including Alvarion's support infrastructure. To be honest I don't think we have many Alvarion Operators that subscribe here but that doesn't mean there aren't a crap load of them out there which should be obviuos to everyone. Typically our Operators use Alvarion support Application Engineers and Alvarion web servers such as Mike Cowan's at ACC when needed. This could end up being a long dialog about the differences in operators, products, and ROI models but I won't go there. Brad -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?
I would second that- you can usually find good quality ( stratex for example ) used backhauls on ebay for around a few grand. - Jeff On Dec 20, 2005, at 3:35 AM, G.Villarini wrote: John , Youre best and cheap option here is a 38 ghz lic. Backhaul. For around $1000 or less you can buy the whole DS3 link with antennas, youll need to buy a pair of DS3 to Ethernet converters if you want Ethernet (around $1500 or less for the pair). The license lease is around $500 anually This will give you a full duplex 45 mbps link with a 1 - 2 ms round trip delay Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:09 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul? I need some feedback from the collective. I am looking for a backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices
Airspan can be had around 3 and change for indoor su's. outdoors around 4 and a quarter... On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:09:58 -0600, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: OUCH! I have bought singles that cheap from doubleradius Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 318-376-2562 - cell Rick Smith wrote: Travis has gotta be full of it! Distributors for Trango previously, when buying in 100 packs, never got prices better than 420... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:08 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices You get Trango cheaper? Prices please! Travis Johnson wrote: Wow that's more than I pay for the Trango 900mhz and it has dual polarity integrated antennas. ;) Travis Microserv Ron Wallace wrote: My Man. Brian, Excellent. Original message Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:53:40 -0500 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Read it and weep nay sayers ;-) I found a VAR to work with. Prices for canopy 900. Connectorized- $262.60 Integrated- $328.7 All details are being posted to Principal Members List. You must be a paid WISPA member to take advantage of the offer. I'd like to get an estimate of volume to the VAR. Pay up to WISPA and hit me offlist to how many you think you could use a month (you won't be committed to this, it's just for a general idea) Brian Ron Wallace wrote: Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some money, good. Ron Wallace Original message Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization. However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*.. Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly doesn't support group buys. The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends when the product is delivered. Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught
Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato
and 15 grand a pop. Would have never made it underneath their pricing model. Also- their first version wasnt a beam forming switch. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:26:23 -0600, Joe Laura [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Ya, they kind of resembled a billboard if you ask me. Serious windload. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato Weren't they super expensive stuff? Were they big? G.Villarini wrote: Another one bytes the dust . http://www.vivato.net/ Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/204 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi
/delurk Top 5 reasons why legacy navini sucks 1.SCDMA phy/mac increases latency to low of 80msec peak 280msec and avg of 100msec with 14-25% jitter. ( in english, the latency sucks arse ) 2. only truely makes sense for sub 2 mile cell NLOS deployment with BRS/MDS/ITFS Licensed spectrum. ( 2.5 ) licensed- reason being is that the average recieve sensitivity that it will work in a nlos cell is -105 dbm. in a 2.4 enviorment, the average noise floor is at least -95dbm = wont work 50-60% of the time. 3. even if they dropped the price to 10k a sector, its still a rediculous price for a product that doesnt offer any QOS ( and cant offer qos ) to deliver a residential service 4. Their zero truck roll model usually only applies to 60% of customer deployments which = not a zero truck roll model 5. blatent marketing lies = unhappy customers my 2 cents - \lurk - Jeff On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:51:44 -, Paul Hendry [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Hey Dustin, could you elaborate on the navini sucks statement? We where looking at deploying them so would be good to know why they are not good. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dustin jurman Sent: 15 December 2005 18:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi I think that is supposed to be 1.5 meg a seconds. They use navini and this is just a response to shut down the new Orleans muni project. And the reason they don't support VOIP over it is because navini sucks. This is Bellsouth's way of saying look! - SHINNY BLUE THING! Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1134594567.htm Post Katrina: Mississippi Gets Wireless Broadband BellSouth has begun deploying high-speed wireless broadband speeds as fast as 1.5 Gb/s in Gulfport and Biloxi, Miss., modifying the company's original wireless broadband rollout plans in order to get service to residents of the hurricane-ravaged area, where the infrastructure damage is so huge it hasn't been fixed yet. The incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC), whose original rollout plans envisioned only offering wide-area wireless broadband in rural areas, is also offering residents of the Mississippi towns a bit of a discount out of sympathy for their plight - and, of course, the good publicity it might get out of the move. Small businesses and homeowners are still rebuilding, and they are looking to BellSouth to provide the critical communications they need to get their lives in order, says John McCullouch, president of BellSouth's Mississippi operations. Our wireless broadband service will provide customers with a viable and economical solution for high-speed Internet access. A BellSouth spokeswoman added that, after blanketing the hurricane-hit cities, the carrier will now return to our original strategy of (offering wireless broadband in) areas from suburbia on out, where such services as DSL can't be delivered economically. About a month ago, BellSouth began offering a high-speed wireless service in downtown New Orleans, but that was priced as a small-business service only. It was absolutely critical to getting the city up and running, the BellSouth spokeswoman explained, regarding the decision not to offer a residential plan. One thing BellSouth is not offering the Mississippi residents, however, is voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) on its shiny, new, wireless broadband. The company had no explanation of why, other than the simple fact that it's not going to offer it for now. For more on BellSouth's wireless rollout progress in the Gulf area, read the current issue of Broadband Business Forecast. For a trial subscription, go to http://www.telecomweb.com/cgi/catalog/info?BNN. Thank you. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156 fax 305.675.6494 http://4isps.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/200 - Release Date: 14/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/200 - Release Date: 14/12/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Fw:Show support
If the donation is going to a NPO, I Think my company could make a contribution, or myself personally. So- someone let me know the details... On Sep 12, 2005, at 9:38 AM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Another great reason to support ISPCon if you can. (For those that don't know, Jon is the show owner.) Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA Board Members List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: RE: Reprimand accepted. I've been working with Jon Price (ISPCON). He just donated $2000 through the WISPA paypal account. He is also considering a discount to vendors for booth space if they will donate to the WISPA effort. He will be sending me the press release soon I hope. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
