RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 05:24 PM 3/22/2004, Ron Scott wrote in response to Jim Cobabe: Equal protection is already afforded in our laws, for legitimate and traditional marriage. Nothing in the constitution envisions the degraded definition of marriage that encompasses any particular union of convenience, affection, devotion, or animal attraction. It seems that some equally thoughtful judges in Massachusetts and elsewhere disagree with you. By proposing the constitutional amendment, the proposers themselves and supporters indicate that they too don't agree with you. Obviously these thoughtful judges are simply wrong--in light of the Church's teachings on this subject, as well documented by Jim. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world.--John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
[ZION] Marriage and the Constitution
If, as BYU Professor Richard Wilkins states, we need a Marriage Amendment because activist judges have misinterpreted the Constitution (See the URL immediately below), then why not simply limit their jurisdiction as outlined in Article III, Section 2? http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/040323constitution.html Richard Wilkins may be convinced that we need a constitutional amendment, but I disagree. All we need to do is limit their jurisdiction. It would be far easier, send a strong message to these activist judges, and protect this vital institution at the same time. http://www.thecbn.net/ http://www.thecbn.net/cbn040226.html -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle--George Washington // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Worth reiterating...
At 08:46 AM 3/23/2004, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Jim Cobabe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Worth reiterating... I believe President Hinkley's remarks on this issue succinctly and precisely outline the present direction of church policy on the marriage controversy. The church is actively pursuing every means to defend traditional marriage, including representation in the courts and support for individual and group efforts to oppose the legalization of same-sex marriage. It would seem that we are not justified in failing to pursue these efforts, regardless of our regard for the chance of success or failure. President Hinckley explains our rationale for such efforts -- It would *seem* to you, perhaps. It doesn't *seem* so to me. I DO NOT support same sex marriage, but my methods for opposing it do not include (at this point) supporting a constitutional amendment defining **marriage.** Likewise, I supported the *general aims* of the proposed Equal Rights Amendment but I DID NOT support passage of the amendment itself because I believed that the constitutional protections and entitlements for all (including women) were already guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. Regards the marriage isisue: I think the constitution as written is satisfactory and provides opportunities to craft laws that honor religious beliefs and honor the protections/entitlements afforded all by our constitution. Ron But I thought you did support same sex civil unions. Am I wrong? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] We will not despair, for the cause of human freedom is the cause of God. --Joshua R. Giddings // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 08:29 AM 3/23/2004, Ron Scott wrote: Obviously these thoughtful judges are simply wrong--in light of the Church's teachings on this subject, as well documented by Jim. Must I point out to you, of all people, that church teachings are not part of the U.S. Constitution, which is the guide that judges have pledged to support and uphold. It's quite obvious that the those who support the amendment also believe that the U.S. Constitution does not give judges sufficient guidance on the matter. Otherwise, an amendment would not be necessary. RBS Powers not given are powers denied. See the 10th Amendment: Quote The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. /Quote I do agree with you, that an amendment is not necessary. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Moral Anarchy is the seedbed of Tyranny--R. W. (Bob) Lee // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 09:45 AM 3/23/2004, you wrote: But only if the current Constitutional powers are obeyed and honored. When we have mayors in San Francisco and elsewhere giving out marriage certificates in defiance of the law, then what piece of paper is there that can establish the law? And when judges overstep their proper role and legislate from the bench, then what happens if they ignore Congress? Or what happens if Congress does not have the cajones to moderate the courts? Pushing an amendment gives them reason to act on the lesser action of moderating the courts. Without the impetus given of an amendment, we have no pressure on Congress to act. So, even if it doesn't pass, or it takes years, I'm for the amendment going forth in discussion; if only to get Congress to do its duty. Gary Smith Well, even though I'm in favor of utilizing the power inherent in Congress vis a vis Article III, Section II of the United States Constitution to limit the jurisdiction of Federal Judges (And perhaps abolishing some Federal Courts altogether), and even though I think there are still problems with the amendment route, I did sign the petition urging passage of a Constitutional Marriage Amendment grin. So perhaps I'm just covering all the bases here. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only constant in the world is change--Karl Marx // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Worth reiterating...
At 10:08 AM 3/23/2004, Ron Scott wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Worth reiterating... But I thought you did support same sex civil unions. Am I wrong? Support is probably not the right word, particularly given the explosive baggage that has been attached to practically everything in this debate. I do not support extramarital sex of any kind. Here some issues that I'm mulling over at the moment: 1) The state should not attempt to define/sanction ordinances of the church. The state should make laws that are consistent with the U.S. Constitution. The church should bless what it chooses to bless. I agree with you here. 2) As I read the constitution, the tax codes (for example) must ensure equal treatment under law for all people; special treatments/exemptions should be applied in uniform and consistent ways. No doubt certain kinds of well-defined domestic partnerships are of benefit to the state and therefore should be entitled to special taxation benefits/entitlements. Definitions of same ought to crafted very carefully and applied uniformly. Actually, I'm in favor of completely abolishing the income tax, and all its loopholes and exceptions, and replacing it with some type of national sales tax. This, in my opinion, is the only fair way to treat everyone as equals under the law. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Moral Anarchy is the seedbed of Tyranny--R. W. (Bob) Lee // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Worth reiterating...
At 10:08 AM 3/23/2004, Ron Scott wrote: I will continue to think...and will appreciate receiving relevant, thoughtful comments from any of you. RBS I don't think that you will have any problem with a dearth of commentary and opinion here on ZION. ;-) -- Steven Montgomery The most important consequence of marriage is, that the husband and the wife become in law only one person Upon this principle of union, almost all the other legal consequences of marriage depend. This principle, sublime and refined, deserves to be viewed and examined on every side. James Wilson // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
Re: [ZION] Marriage and the Constitution
At 11:38 AM 3/23/2004, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: If, as BYU Professor Richard Wilkins states, we need a Marriage Amendment because activist judges have misinterpreted the Constitution (See the URL immediately below), then why not simply limit their jurisdiction as outlined in Article III, Section 2? http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/040323constitution.html Richard Wilkins may be convinced that we need a constitutional amendment, but I disagree. All we need to do is limit their jurisdiction. This is why the pro-family forces are doomed to failure. They can't even agree among themselves about what needs to be done. --JWR But I did sign the petition urging passage of a marriage amendment. I'm willing to cover all bases. However, I haven't seen Wilkins mention *anything* at all about the article III, section 2 option. -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalogosmall.jpg; width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 02:05 PM 3/23/2004, you wrote: Tell us how you feel about the amendment now that we know there's a move afoot to change the language? grin What's Wilkins reaction to same? This thing is beginning to feel like an election year stunt gone haywire. RBS The marriage amendment is doomed to failure. That's my opinion and how I feel. That's exactly why I support the never mentioned alternative--urging Congress to use their powers under article III, section 2 to limit the jurisdiction of federal courts. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Far on the right, her dogs foul Scylla hides:Charybdis roaring on the left presides,And in her greedy whirlpool sucks the tides;Then spouts them from below: with fury driv'n,The waves mount up and wash the face of heav'n.But Scylla from her den, with open jaws,The sinking vessel in her eddy draws,Then dashes on the rocks--Virgil // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Judging
At 07:22 PM 4/22/2004, you wrote: I went with my 11 year old on a school choir trip today to Calgary for a choral festival performance. rest deleted Hey Tom. Check the time and date on your computer. Your last email on ZION was dated 4/22/2004 at 7:22PM grin. It sure makes a mess out of my email sorts. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our leisure, even our play, is a matter of serious concern. There is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counter-claimed by Satan. C. S. Lewis // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 11:10 AM 3/22/2004, you wrote: Thus sayeth the self-appointed Judge in Israel. By the way, who's pushing for gay rights here? I've seen a few here calling for equal treatment under the law for all, which is something guaranteed by our divinely inspired constitution. RBS Yes, but equality before the law and equal treatment under the law for every liberal scheme coming down the pipe is two different things. -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalogosmall.jpg; width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 02:24 PM 3/22/2004, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! At 11:10 AM 3/22/2004, you wrote: Thus sayeth the self-appointed Judge in Israel. By the way, who's pushing for gay rights here? I've seen a few here calling for equal treatment under the law for all, which is something guaranteed by our divinely inspired constitution. RBS Yes, but equality before the law and equal treatment under the law for every liberal scheme coming down the pipe is two different things. True enough. I wasn't talking about schemes, however. I wuz talking about people. RBS Ok grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle--George Washington // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
[ZION] Major Announcement
In other news, NASA will announce a major scientific finding Tuesday at 2:00PM eastern time. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/opportunity_announcement_040322.html -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recall the new star that announced the birth at Bethlehem? It was in its precise orbit long before it so shone. We are likewise placed in human orbits to illuminate. Divine correlation functions not only in the cosmos but on this planet, too. After all, the Book of Mormon plates were not buried in Belgium, only to have Joseph Smith born centuries later in distant Bombay. (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, Conference Report, Saturday Morning, Oct 2002) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 08:58 PM 3/20/2004, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Grampa Bill in Savannah [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Vote Now! RB Scott wrote: Seriously, I don't recall Christ preaching death for any offense...well, murder perhaps (but I don't recall it). Notwithstanding fairly twisted and bizarre interpretations, what Christ taught was forgiveness, not death. Actually he taught both. Unrepentant sinners could still expect the full penalty of the law upon them. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 09:00 PM 3/20/2004, you wrote: -Original Message- From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! RB Scott wrote: I think you've got it right. The old laws are off the books. If they become laws again, they ought to be enforced. What do I think the penalty ought to be for Sabbath breaking? Dunno. Let me consult with my Jewish and SDA friends. Seriously, I don't recall Christ preaching death for any offense...well, murder perhaps (but I don't recall it). According to official Mormon doctrine, Jesus Christ is the premortal Jehovah. If that is the case, then we know that Jesus Christ preached death for quite a few offenses. --JWR I think too many get fixated and judging others, relishing damning others to hell. What Christ taught was that it is our responsibility to forgive all, to leave judgements to Him. I suspect when that great and dreadful day arrives, more than a few of us will be very, very surpised. RBS So then, let's just open up all the prisons and jails, let everyone go--obviously its not our place to judge rapists, serial killers and the like. Wouldn't that make our society grand? -- Steven Montgomery In democracy there are commonly tumults and disorders Therefore a pure democracy is generally a very bad government. It is often the most tyrannical government on earth.--Noah Webster // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
How about the Law of Moses (Jarom 1:5)? Contained within the law of Moses are many commandments, among them this one: (Old Testament | Leviticus 18:22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. The penalty, for unrepentant sinners was death: (Old Testament | Leviticus 20:13) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:18 AM 3/20/2004, you wrote: I have no idea. -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! What laws do you think? At 06:04 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: What laws? -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Vote Now! At 02:02 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Gays and lesbians should stay in the closet. A. Strongly agree B. Agree C. Undecided D. Disagree E. Strongly Disagree If the laws were strictly enforced, as they were in the days of the people of Nephi, they would have to stay in the closet--to avoid the penalty of the law. -- Steven Montgomery . . . the laws of the land were exceedingly strict--Jarom 1:5 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalogosmall.jpg; width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
Hey, all l did was point out the penalty of the law--in the days of Moses and of the people in the Book of Mormon. Since we don't live under a theocratic government, death penalties for sabbath breaking and adultery does seem to be going way too far. Still, in most of the states of the union there used to be laws on the books against both Sabbath breakers and adulterers--perhaps we ought to start enforcing them again. What do you think the penalty ought to be? Or should we just turn a blind eye and let people ruin themselves in their own iniquity? -- Steven Montgomery At 09:04 AM 3/20/2004, you wrote: Ah yes, and stone to death adulterers too. Cast that first stone, Steven. -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! How about the Law of Moses (Jarom 1:5)? Contained within the law of Moses are many commandments, among them this one: (Old Testament | Leviticus 18:22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. The penalty, for unrepentant sinners was death: (Old Testament | Leviticus 20:13) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:18 AM 3/20/2004, you wrote: I have no idea. -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! What laws do you think? At 06:04 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: What laws? -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Vote Now! At 02:02 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Gays and lesbians should stay in the closet. A. Strongly agree B. Agree C. Undecided D. Disagree E. Strongly Disagree If the laws were strictly enforced, as they were in the days of the people of Nephi, they would have to stay in the closet--to avoid the penalty of the law. -- Steven Montgomery . . . the laws of the land were exceedingly strict--Jarom 1:5 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalo gosmall.jpg width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
If he did then perhaps I'm just too blind to see. Perhaps you can enlighten me. -- Steven Montgomery At 11:10 AM 3/20/2004, you wrote: I think Christ provided the answer, don't you? -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! Hey, all l did was point out the penalty of the law--in the days of Moses and of the people in the Book of Mormon. Since we don't live under a theocratic government, death penalties for sabbath breaking and adultery does seem to be going way too far. Still, in most of the states of the union there used to be laws on the books against both Sabbath breakers and adulterers--perhaps we ought to start enforcing them again. What do you think the penalty ought to be? Or should we just turn a blind eye and let people ruin themselves in their own iniquity? -- Steven Montgomery At 09:04 AM 3/20/2004, you wrote: Ah yes, and stone to death adulterers too. Cast that first stone, Steven. -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! How about the Law of Moses (Jarom 1:5)? Contained within the law of Moses are many commandments, among them this one: (Old Testament | Leviticus 18:22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. The penalty, for unrepentant sinners was death: (Old Testament | Leviticus 20:13) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:18 AM 3/20/2004, you wrote: I have no idea. -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Vote Now! What laws do you think? At 06:04 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: What laws? -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Vote Now! At 02:02 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Gays and lesbians should stay in the closet. A. Strongly agree B. Agree C. Undecided D. Disagree E. Strongly Disagree If the laws were strictly enforced, as they were in the days of the people of Nephi, they would have to stay in the closet--to avoid the penalty of the law. -- Steven Montgomery . . . the laws of the land were exceedingly strict--Jarom 1:5 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalo gosmall.jpg width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http
Re: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 01:54 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Same-sex marriage will become legal in all or most of the United States over the next five years. A. Certainly B. Likely C. Maybe D. Unlikely E. Certainly not If the United States doesn't withdraw from the United Nations we will. If not in five years then perhaps ten or fifteen. http://www.ldsmag.com/familywatch/040319newsletter.html I disagree with Sharon Slater, the author of the above article and President of United Families International, that pro-family activism within the UN will work. A better choice, in my opinion, is to totally withdraw from the UN. -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalogosmall.jpg; width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
Re: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 01:57 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Mankind will establish permanent space colonies by the end of the century. A. Certainly B. Likely C. Maybe D. Unlikely E. Certainly not We pretty much have a semi-permanent presence in space now--with the ISS. An actual colony, on the other hand, is far more difficult. I doubt it. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Moral Anarchy is the seedbed of Tyranny--R. W. (Bob) Lee // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
Re: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 02:02 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Gays and lesbians should stay in the closet. A. Strongly agree B. Agree C. Undecided D. Disagree E. Strongly Disagree If the laws were strictly enforced, as they were in the days of the people of Nephi, they would have to stay in the closet--to avoid the penalty of the law. -- Steven Montgomery . . . the laws of the land were exceedingly strict--Jarom 1:5 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
At 06:04 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Why does our membership in the UN have anything to do with it? Sharon Slater answers it this way: Quote Attempts to legalize same sex marriage around the world would be substantially strengthened if homosexual behavior becomes an internationally recognized human right. The resolution, if passed, undoubtedly would be cited by the U.S. Supreme Court and state appellate courts to (1) overturn Defense of Marriage laws at the state and federal level and (2) challenge state constitutional provisions defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. They did it on the Texas anti-sodomy law and they would surely do it again. /Quote -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML http://www.getusout.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] Vote Now!
What laws do you think? At 06:04 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: What laws? -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Vote Now! At 02:02 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: Gays and lesbians should stay in the closet. A. Strongly agree B. Agree C. Undecided D. Disagree E. Strongly Disagree If the laws were strictly enforced, as they were in the days of the people of Nephi, they would have to stay in the closet--to avoid the penalty of the law. -- Steven Montgomery . . . the laws of the land were exceedingly strict--Jarom 1:5 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
RE: [ZION] J. Reuben Clark
At 03:43 PM 3/16/2004, you wrote: --- W. Cleon Skousen --- But the Lord isn't going to allow this government to be destroyed. Although administrations may destroy themselves, systems may destroy themselves, this country's going to survive. J. Reuben Clark knew how it would survive: build track two. Don't get in front of that train on track one, it will just run over you. You quietly build track two. --- Steve, thanks also for posting this. It was a very interesting read. But just what did Bro. Skousen mean by track two? Was this a reference to the Church, to a parallel government of some sort, or to both? /Sandy/ -- The Rabinowitz Family -- http://www.firstnephi.com Spring Hill, Tennessee I don't know what Skousen meant. My best guess though is that when and if the U.S. Government and the Constitution fail, those properly educated in constitutional matters will be able to restore it. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our leisure, even our play, is a matter of serious concern. There is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counter-claimed by Satan. C. S. Lewis // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
[ZION] J. Reuben Clark
impressive and much more productive than in the past. 1960. You see, we had worked thirty years to get ten thousand converts in Latin America. Thirty years to get ten thousand. We got the next ten thousand in two years. We got the next ten thousand in one year. Now we get ten thousand every few months. This is a new era, and you're in it. All of the buildings that began. During the last ten years of David O. McKay's life, he felt so helpless. He asked me to do an errand for him one day, and I came in and found that he couldn't even stand up. He had a couple of strokes. Here were needles and oxygen tanks, and one thing and another. He could see, as I looked around his office, the amazement in my eyes. He said, Don't feel sorry for me, Brother Skousen. Nobody expects me to do anything. All I have to do is stay close to the Lord and make the decisions. Which he did, and we doubled the membership of the church in the next ten years, when he was an invalid. We doubled the number of temples, I tell you, we just went forward. So when these prophets become very elderly, indisposed, the work goes on, magnificently. In his day, J. Reuben Clark did that. Now President Hinckley and President Monson carry it on. Oh, what great leaders they are. I love them. Great leaders. So I come to my conclusion, and it's J. Reuben Clark's conclusion. He could see that the powers that existed were so well entrenched, so voluminous, had such a grip on the media, both the parties, the money, that that was going to have to run its course, like an express train going hell-bent to destruction. Track Two But the Lord isn't going to allow this government to be destroyed. Although administrations may destroy themselves, systems may destroy themselves, this country's going to survive. J. Reuben Clark knew how it would survive: build track two. Don't get in front of that train on track one, it will just run over you. You quietly build track two. Sometimes people say, Dr. Skousen, you spent your whole life studying these things that have gone wrong, with the attack on the Constitution and everything. Why are you so optimistic? I say to them, I read the book, and in the end, we win. Now, it's on track two that we win. J. Reuben Clark never lost confidence in having a generation finally become alert, and finally doing its homework, and getting into a position where they would do what God and the Founding Fathers intended that we should have been doing all the time. So, I bless his memory. I bless his integrity. I bless his tenacity. I'm so grateful for that man. He's been my inspiration, I've learned to love him. I knew him, but not well. I received counsel from him two or three times. One of my books became a national best seller, and he gave me a little bit of counsel about what God was doing, and what to expect, and I was very grateful for that. /Quote -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalogosmall.jpg; width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
Re: [ZION] J. Reuben Clark
At 10:36 AM 3/16/2004, you wrote: Thought you might like this excerpt of a talk given by W. Cleon Skousen in Granstville Utah on September 1, 1990, regarding the life of J. Reuben Clark--A Prophet to the Prophets: Oops. The year the talk was given was 1992, not 1990. -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalogosmall.jpg; width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
[ZION] Marriage vs Civil Unions
Thought you might be interested in the following (Try as I might I could not get the footnotes to copy correctly [perhaps someone can enlighten me]. Instead I've simply listed all the footnotes at the end.) -- Steven Montgomery MINNESOTA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE ON CIVIL LAW 78th Regular Session March 9, 2004 Representative Mary Liz Holberg, Committee Chair Prepared Testimony of Professor Teresa Stanton Collett* Good afternoon Mister Acting Chairman, Members of the Committee, and other distinguished guests. I am pleased to have been given the opportunity to testify in favor of HF 2798 regarding the need to put before the voters an amendment of the Minnesota state constitution defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman. My testimony represents my professional knowledge and opinion as a law professor, who writes on the subjects of marriage and family. It is not intended to represent the views of my employer, the University of St. Thomas School of Law, or any other organization or person. There is widespread agreement that marriage is a unique relationship between one man and one woman. A recent poll conducted at the request of the Pioneer Press and Minnesota Public Radio revealed that 63% of the Minnesotans surveyed oppose legalizing same sex marriage while only 27 % support it. Minnesota law currently reflects the understanding that marriage is the union of a man and a woman, as does the law that has been legislatively enacted in all fifty American states. These laws are based on the understanding that men and women are fundamentally different, and this difference is foundational to the institution of marriage. The Current Attack on the Law The Situation in the Courts As I noted in my testimony before this Committee in January, this consensus, however, has been under continuing attack. For the past thirty-five years there has been a well-orchestrated effort by some gay-rights activists to obtain recognition of same-sex unions as marriages. Unsuccessful in persuading the public and elected representatives of the people on the merits of their claim, advocates have turned to the courts, arguing that the federal and state constitutions require recognition of same-sex marriage. To date, no federal court has agreed. However, state courts in Hawaii, Alaska, Vermont, and Massachusetts have found that varied provisions of those state constitutions require recognition of same-sex unions. In Hawaii the Supreme Court found that, absent a showing of a compelling state interest, equal protection as guaranteed by the state constitution required the state to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. In Alaska the state constitutional protection of privacy provided the warrant for a trial court to order officials to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. The citizens of Hawaii and Alaska responded to the actions of their courts by amending their state constitutions to correct what was largely perceived as judicial overreaching. In Vermont, the court grounded its decision compelling recognition of same sex unions as the equivalent of marriage in the common benefits clause of the state constitution, a provision similar to, but different from, the equal protection guarantees found in the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the federal constitutions. Vermont legislators did not afford their citizens the opportunity to correct this judicial interpretation, instead passing Act 91, An Act Relating to Civil Unions. The Vermont statute creating civil unions was passed in compliance with that state's supreme court order to create a parallel licensing or registration scheme, and extend all or most of the same rights and obligations provided by the law to married partners. As initially enacted civil unions differed from civil marriage in name only same sex couples enjoyed all the legal benefits and obligations of marriage under Vermont law. Because the vast majority of couples obtaining civil union licenses were not Vermont residents, the question of interstate recognition of these unions has been raised in several states with mixed results. At this time there is no final appellate judgment giving interstate recognition to a Vermont civil union. Massachusetts On November 18, 2003 the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled 4-3 in Goodridge v. Dept. of Public Health that the state's laws reserving marriage for the union of one man and one woman were unconstitutional. Justice Greaney, citing the Lawrence v. Texas, an opinion of the United Supreme Court, said that morality was no longer a rational basis for upholding the law, which is the minimal test for a law's constitutionality. In fact, the Massachusetts court found no rational basis whatever for upholding the law. Writing for the majority, Chief Justice Margaret Marshall gave the legislature 180 days to take appropriate action in light of the opinion, which
[ZION] Outer Darkness?
Perhaps this is outer darkness: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/new_object_040315.html -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . .we convinced physicists the distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion. . . --Albert Einstein, in a letter to the widow of fellow physicist, Michele Besso // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^
[ZION] Gay Marriage Quicksand
Congressman Ron Paul on the Gay Marriage issue (just remember where you saw the limit the jurisdiction of federal courts idea first grin): http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2004/03-22-2004/marriage.htm Gay Marriage Quicksand by Congressman Ron Paul Nationalizing marriage laws will only grant more power over our lives to the federal government, even if for supposedly conservative ends. A far better approach is for Congress to exercise its existing constitutional power to limit the jurisdiction of federal courts. The President's recent announcement that he supports a constitutional amendment defining marriage has intensified the gay marriage debate. It seems sad that we need government to define and regulate our most basic institutions. Marriage is first and foremost a religious matter, not a government matter. Government is not moral and cannot make us moral. Law should reflect moral standards, of course, but morality comes from religion, from philosophy, from societal standards, from families, and from responsible individuals. We make a mistake when we look to government for moral leadership. Marriage and divorce laws have always been crafted by states. In an ideal world, state governments enforce marriage contracts and settle divorces, but otherwise stay out of marriage. The federal government, granted only limited, enumerated powers in the Constitution, has no role whatsoever. However, many Americans understandably fear that if gay marriage is legalized in one state, all other states will be forced to accept such marriages. They argue that the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution essentially federalizes the issue; hence a constitutional amendment is necessary. But the Defense of Marriage Act, passed in 1996, explicitly authorizes states to refuse to recognize gay marriages performed in other states. Furthermore, the Supreme Court repeatedly has interpreted the Full Faith and Credit clause to allow Congress to limit the effect of state laws on other states. In fact, federal courts almost universally apply the clause only to state court judgments, not statutes. So a constitutional amendment is not necessary to address the issue of gay marriage, and will only drive yet another nail into the coffin of federalism. If we turn regulation of even domestic family relations over to the federal government, presumably anything can be federalized. The choices are not limited to either banning gay marriage at the federal level, or giving up and accepting it as inevitable. A far better approach, rarely discussed, is for Congress to exercise its existing constitutional power to limit the jurisdiction of federal courts. Congress could statutorily remove whole issues like gay marriage from the federal judiciary, striking a blow against judicial tyranny and restoring some degree of states' rights. We seem to have forgotten that the Supreme Court is supreme only over lower federal courts; it is not supreme over the other branches of government. The judiciary is co-equal under our federal system, but too often it serves as an unelected, unaccountable legislature. It is great comedy to hear the secular, pro-gay left, so hostile to states' rights in virtually every instance, suddenly discover the tyranny of centralized government. The newly minted protectors of local rule find themselves demanding: Why should Washington dictate marriage standards for Massachusetts and California? Let the people of those states decide for themselves. This is precisely the argument conservatives and libertarians have been making for decades! Why should Washington dictate education, abortion, environment, and labor rules to the states? The American people hold widely diverse views on virtually all political matters, and the Founders wanted the various state governments to most accurately reflect those views. This is the significance of the 10th Amendment, which the left in particular has abused for decades. Social problems cannot be solved by constitutional amendments or government edicts. Nationalizing marriage laws will only grant more power over our lives to the federal government, even if for supposedly conservative ends. Throughout the 20th century, the relentless federalization of state law served the interests of the cultural left, and we should not kid ourselves that the same practice now can save freedom and morality. True conservatives and libertarians should understand that the solution to our moral and cultural decline does not lie in a strong centralized government. -- Steven Montgomery html a href=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/?af=linktous3; img border=0 src=http://www.stoptheftaa.org/_images/linktous/sftaalogosmall.jpg; width=406 height=100/a /html http://www.stoptheftaa.org // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html
RE: [ZION] An Answer to the World - Chapter 3
At 08:03 PM 3/7/2004, you wrote: Jonathan, I'm not sure I follow your first attempt at deconstruction. I am interested in the linkage you're making between the war and the counterculture. Although there seem to be some significant connections, I'm pretty certain that the slide toward this studied irresponsibility popularized as freedom started prior to the Vietnam war. I suppose there have always been people like this. In the decade following WWII, I think they were called beatniks. These folks had a hold on San Francisco long before Vietnam started. Don't forget the influence of the Marxist inspired cultural revolution. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Moscow's Strategy. . . The dialectic of this offensive consists of a calculated shift from the old, discredited Soviet practice to a new, liberalized model, with a social democratic Facade, to realize the communist planners strategy for establishing a United Europe. At the beginning they introduced a variation of the 1968 Czechoslovakian 'democratization.' At a later phase they will shift to a variation of the Czechoslovakian takeover of 1948. -Anatoliy Golitsyn, _New Lies for Old_, 1984 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Steve Farrell on the Marriage Amendment
At 10:54 AM 3/6/2004, you wrote: Who is Steve Farrell and, if it's not obvious, why should I pay attention to what he writes? RBS Steve Farrell is a bloke who lives in Henderson Nevada (soon to be moving to Preston Idaho however), who is an independent journalist who writes for both Meridian Magazine and Newsmax among others. Seems as if he has also joined Defend Marriage as their Press Secretary. I suppose you don't *have* to pay *any* attention to what he writes. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Banner Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Steve Farrell on the Marriage Amendment
www.defendmarriage.org Contact Steve at [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Banner Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Hatch's Proposal
Take a look at Orrin Hatch's proposal for an amendment. Tell me what you think: http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/editors200403040830.asp -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Banner Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Steve Farrell on the Marriage Amendment
At 01:13 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: Many of you know that Steve Farrell and I are best friends. Best friends or not, we are somewhat divided over whether or not an amendment is the best way to defend traditional marriages. While Steve is in favor of a Marriage Amendment, I am in favor or protecting traditional marriages by limiting the jurisdiction of Federal Courts. Anyway, in the interest of balance grin, here is Steve Farrell's latest, taken from http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/3/134302.shtml: Oops. Strip that last colon off the URL. It should be this: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/3/134302.shtml -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] 34 U.S. Senators would nix Marriage Amendment
According to Newsmax and unnamed published reports, at least 34 U.S. Senators would vote no on the Marriage Amendment: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/5/95800.shtml What stand a better chance is to limit the jurisdiction of Federal Courts--something that only takes a simple majority, rather than a 2/3 majority of both House and Senate and then 3/4 of the States. -- Steven Montgomery The most important consequence of marriage is, that the husband and the wife become in law only one person Upon this principle of union, almost all the other legal consequences of marriage depend. This principle, sublime and refined, deserves to be viewed and examined on every side. James Wilson // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Farrell, Hatch and Redelfs
At 06:40 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: Orrin Hatch feels that ONLY a federal marriage amendment will provide an effective barrier against judicial activism redefining marriage to include same-sex marriage. Apparently Steve Farrell agrees. So does Redelfs. Anything less than a federal amendment will be swept away by the flood of filth we are currently witnessing. Some may argue that an amendment cannot be passed because it requires a two-thirds vote of both houses and ratification of three-fourths of the states. I hope that is not true because if it is, then the battle is lost. If we cannot pass an amendment, then our goose is cooked. I pray that it is not so. John W. Redelfs According to Boyd K. Packer, in his speech given at the J. Reuben Clark Center at BYU (See: http://www.lds.org/newsroom/voice/display/0,18255,5004-1-61,00.html): Quote The present major political debate centers on values and morals and the Constitution. There occurs from time to time reference to the Constitution hanging by a thread. President Brigham Young said: The general Constitution of our country is good, and a wholesome government could be framed upon it; for it was dictated by the invisible operations of the Almighty. ... Will the Constitution be destroyed? No. It will be held inviolate by this people; and as Joseph Smith said the time will come when the destiny of this nation will hang upon a single thread, and at this critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction. It will be so.23 I do not know when that day will come or how it will come to pass. I feel sure that when it does come to pass, among those who will step forward from among this people will be men who hold the Holy Priesthood and who carry as credentials a bachelor or doctor of law degree. And women, also, of honor. And there will be judges as well. Others from the world outside the Church will come, as Colonel Thomas Kane did, and bring with them their knowledge of the law to protect this people. We may one day stand alone, but we will not change or lower our standards or change our course. /Quote Even if the rest of the nation is destroyed the Constitution will be preserved. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Banner Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Farrell, Hatch and Redelfs
At 07:32 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: At 06:40 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: Orrin Hatch feels that ONLY a federal marriage amendment will provide an effective barrier against judicial activism redefining marriage to include same-sex marriage. Apparently Steve Farrell agrees. So does Redelfs. Anything less than a federal amendment will be swept away by the flood of filth we are currently witnessing. Some may argue that an amendment cannot be passed because it requires a two-thirds vote of both houses and ratification of three-fourths of the states. I hope that is not true because if it is, then the battle is lost. If we cannot pass an amendment, then our goose is cooked. I pray that it is not so. John W. Redelfs According to Boyd K. Packer, in his speech given at the J. Reuben Clark Center at BYU (See: http://www.lds.org/newsroom/voice/display/0,18255,5004-1-61,00.html): Dang. The URL should be: http://www.lds.org/newsroom/voice/display/0,18255,5004-1-61,00.html -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our leisure, even our play, is a matter of serious concern. There is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counter-claimed by Satan. C. S. Lewis // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION]
At 10:04 AM 3/2/2004, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: --- Excerpted from http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=viewid=954 --- Interesting reading. What do you know about this Congress critter? Is he reputed to be mentally stable? (In normal times, such a question might be a token of disrespect. These days, it pays to be careful. ;-) I don't know anything about Bill Wood. When investigating an issue Congress frequently solicits testimony from various experts. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Explore Freedom: http://www.geocities.com/graymada // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Highway 666
Considering past discussions we've had on this list regarding the Mark of the Beast and the number 666, I thought the following short article (From the National Geographic Magazine for December 2003) both interesting and humorous. At least I got quite a chuckle out of it. I've transcribed it here in its entirety (Sans the photo which accompanied it): Quote Its Number Was Up. Some people consider 666 a sign of evil--the number of the beast in the New Testament Book of Revelation. That's why two-lane U.S. 666 through the four corners area, named because it was the sixth spur off U.S. 66, is now U.S. 491. The road's satanic connotation caused such protest among the Navajo, whose New Mexico lands it crosses, that Governor Bill Richardson announced the name change last June. But old 666 never was a highway to hell. It went to Utah. --MGZ /Quote It seems like I remember a joke about highway 666 which had a similar punchline. Does anyone remember the joke, or variants? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] O ye Priest of Baal. O, ye gentile religionest O. ye inhabitants of Babylon possessing the Mark of the beast What knowledge have ye of the ordinances or blessings or virtues of the house Church of God (The Kirtland Diary of Wilford Woodruff) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Inspirational Story
Here is a very inspirational *true* story, verified by www.snopes.com (They talked to the original source of the story, Will Ross. See For yourself at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/onleave.asp). I thought this might brighten up your day grin. -- Steven Montgomery A Day at Baltimore Airport (The writer and his wife live in LA and both work for Uncle Sam.) Dear Friends and Family, I hope that you will spare me a few minutes of your time to tell you about something that I saw on Monday, October 27. I had been attending a conference in Annapolis and was coming home on Sunday. As you may recall, Los Angeles International Airport was closed on Sunday, October 26, because of the fires that affected air traffic control. Accordingly, my flight, and many others, were canceled and I wound up spending a night in Baltimore. My story begins the next day. When I went to check in at the United counter Monday morning I saw a lot of soldiers home from Iraq. Most were very young and all had on their desert camouflage uniforms. This was as change from earlier, when they had to buy civilian clothes in Kuwait to fly home. It was a visible reminder that we are in a war. It probably was pretty close to what train terminals were like in World War II. Many people were stopping the troops to talk to them, asking them questions in the Starbucks line or just saying Welcome Home. In addition to all the flights that had been canceled on Sunday, the weather was terrible in Baltimore and the flights were backed up. So, there were a lot of unhappy people in the terminal trying to get home, but nobody that I saw gave the soldiers a bad time. By the afternoon, one plane to Denver had been delayed several hours. United personnel kept asking for volunteers to give up their seats and take another flight. They weren't getting many takers. Finally, a United spokeswoman got on the PA and said this, Folks. As you can see, there are a lot of soldiers in the waiting area. They only have 14 days of leave and we're trying to get them where they need to go without spending any more time in an airport then they have to. We sold them all tickets, knowing we would oversell the flight. If we can, we want to get them all on this flight. We want all the soldiers to know that we respect what you're doing, we are here for you and we love you. At that, the entire terminal of cranky, tired, travel-weary people, a cross-section of America, broke into sustained and heartfelt applause. The soldiers looked surprised and very modest. Most of them just looked at their boots. Many of us were wiping away tears. And, yes, people lined up to take the later flight and all the soldiers went to Denver on that flight. That little moment made me proud to be an American, and also told me why we will win this war. If you want to send my little story on to your friends and family, feel free. This is not some urban legend. I was there, I was part of it, I saw it happen. Will Ross Administrative Judge United States Department of Defense Bonnie Rathke Regional Purchaser, DHS Region 7, mailcode 016-1 Phone 512/832-7672, Fax 512/834-4797 Digital pager 800/527-2431 pin 5101 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Good News Sources
At 06:01 AM 11/15/2003, Ron Scott wrote: In my opinion, the news(this does not include editorialists or editorialists) organizations that are the most reliable are: 1. The New York Times group I read the New York Times with a grain of salt (Yes, I read an online version almost daily). When it comes to political matters they have little credibility to me. For instance, Walter Duranty--Pulitzer Prize winner for the New York Times was actually a Stalin Apologist and covered up Stalin's man made famine in the Ukraine which killed upwards of 6 million people. They also made the claim that Fidel Castro was the George Washington of Cuba and was not a Communist. Plus many other liberally slanted news stories which have appeared in the rag over the years. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Communism and the Terrorist Connection
At 08:39 AM 11/15/2003, you wrote: Steve: You just laid out provocative exceprts but ignored the context. In addition, you lay these out in ways that suggest these activities were endorsed formally by the Russian government. Finally, the excerpts you chose do not take into account: snipped 2. Complicity of the U.S. and other Western Governments 3. Examples where, argubaly, the U.S. could accused of doing exactly the same thing. Your right, I did leave it out. My intention was merely to show Russian involvement. The fact that certain elements within the United States are and have been involved in such matters is something, by the way, that the John Birch Society has been trying to point out for decades grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Good News Sources
Whatever what? Credibility does matter. But I guess that's your right to get your news from less than credible sources. -- Steven Montgomery At 08:41 AM 11/15/2003, you wrote: Whatever. -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Good News Sources At 06:01 AM 11/15/2003, Ron Scott wrote: In my opinion, the news(this does not include editorialists or editorialists) organizations that are the most reliable are: 1. The New York Times group I read the New York Times with a grain of salt (Yes, I read an online version almost daily). When it comes to political matters they have little credibility to me. For instance, Walter Duranty--Pulitzer Prize winner for the New York Times was actually a Stalin Apologist and covered up Stalin's man made famine in the Ukraine which killed upwards of 6 million people. They also made the claim that Fidel Castro was the George Washington of Cuba and was not a Communist. Plus many other liberally slanted news stories which have appeared in the rag over the years. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// // /// // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Status of Communism
At 09:48 AM 11/15/2003, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 8:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Status of Communism Here is an excerpt from an article by J. R. Nyquist, who in my opinion is one of the leading experts on Communism: I've read the article. Now why is it you think he's an expert? Because he has spent the effort to study Marxism-Leninism. I do have to admit however that the particular article in question was merely a commentary and does not necessarily reflect Nyquist's scholarship or learning. For that you'd have to read some of his other articles grin. -- Steven Montgomery An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. (Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond the Horizon, 1942) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Small World of the Church
At 10:50 AM 11/15/2003, Val wrote: I just wanted to share with you all something really neat. Val, Thanks for sharing--it helped brighten my day! -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Good News Sources
At 10:34 AM 11/15/2003, you wrote: Less credible than what, for instance? And don't give me your b.s. about ny times columnists and editorials. For the moment, I was talking ONLY about the credibility of the news organization, the fact vetting process etc. Well, certainly less credible than other news organizations that don't print fabrications from Times reporters--like Jason Blair, John Burns or Judith Miller. But, perhaps, more credible than say Al Jazeera vbg. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper . . The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in a situation to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day. I really look with commiseration over the great body of my fellow citizens, who reading newspapers, live and die in the belief, that they have known something of what has been passing in the world in their time . . . General facts may indeed be collected from them, such as that Europe is now at war . . . but no details can be relied on. (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Norvell, June 11, 1807) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Inspirational Story
Well, some of us get mail slow, here in the hinterlands. -- Steven Montgomery At 10:36 AM 11/15/2003, you wrote: Great story. It's been circulating for weeks. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Punch their lights out
At 01:54 PM 11/13/2003, Ron Scott asked: Where, in your opinion, is the communist threat today. And, please don't post reams of stuff I've read before. Tell me what YOU think. Ok, here are a few things that come to mind: 1. Communism still very much rules over a great portion of the earth. China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam., etc. 2. Marxist-Leninist Terrorist Organizations still operate in many parts of the world. Such as the Shining Path, FARC, Tamil Tigers, etc. Incidentally, my wife's uncle, Ray Rising, was captured and held by Marxist-Leninist Guerrilla's (The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Columbia or FARC) for 810 days. He wrote a book of his ordeal which you can read about here: http://www.bible.org/docs/br/bookreview-21.htm 3. That the policies of Glasnost and Perestroika are Potemkin Villages, setup to lull the United States and the rest of the West to sleep. I find it interesting, for example, that Putin was a former KGB agent and that Gorbachev, in his book, _Perestroika_ admitted that he is still very much a Marxist. 4. China's Opening to the West is very much following the Marxist strategy of dialectical advance. China admits in an official White Paper, available on their website, that the purpose of trade is to build up their Manufacturing and Military infrastructure while at the same time weakening the west. These are just a few of my thoughts--but perhaps you had a more specific question in mind? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wishing to advance in a room full of people, I do not walk through the aisle and straight toward my goal. Nor do I move slowly through the crowd shaking hands with friends and acquaintances, discussing points of interest, gradually nearing the objective. The dialectical pathway is different. It consists of a resolute forward advance followed by an abrupt turn and retreat. Having retreated a distance there is another turn and advance. Through a series of forward-backward steps the goal is approached. To advance thus is to advance dialectically. The Communist goal is fixed and changeless, but their direction of advance reverses itself from time to time. They approach their goal by going directly away from it a considerable portion of the time. Lenin wrote the textbook, One Step Forward, Two Steps Back. Chinese Communist schoolchildren are taught to do the dialectical march taking three steps forward and two steps back. If we judge where the Communists are going by the direction in which they are moving we will obviously be deceived. (Dr. Fred Schwarz, Founder of the Christian Anti-Communism Crusade and Author of, _You Can Trust the Communists: To be Communists_) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Punch their lights out
At 10:02 AM 11/14/2003, Ron Scott wrote: Surprise. Believe it or not Jim, like you I believe its far more importance for our nation to be concerned about national defense and security than to turn into a nation of worry warts over whether theres a commy in every commode. Believe it or not--but I absolutely agree with you in this particular. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The United States goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is a well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. If the United States took up all foreign affairs, it would become entangled in all the wars of interest and intrigue, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own soul. --President John Quincy Adams // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
At 10:13 AM 11/14/2003, Gary wrote: define freedom. There are huge chasms of difference between John Adams the forefather and Thomas Jefferson the forefather. Whatever differences they had, I find it interesting, and perhaps not mere coincidental, that both men died within hours of each other, July 4th 1826--the Jubilee (Fiftieth) anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do I err, then, in believing that the universe is built upon symbols, to the end that it may bear record of its all-wise Architect and Builder? God teaches with symbols; it is his favorite method of teaching. The Savior often used them. (Orson F. Whitney, Improvement Era, August 1927) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
At 01:26 PM 11/14/2003, you wrote: They spent years angry with one another for the political rivalry they had, refusing to speak to each other. Then in their elder years, they began writing to one another. They forgave each other and became close pen pals. Interesting that John Adams' last words were: Thomas Jefferson still lives, yet Jefferson had passed away a few hours before IIRC. Gary Thomas Jefferson, in his handwritten instructions for his own tombstone, stated that he wanted to be remembered for three things--Author of the Declaration of Independence, Author of the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom, and Father of the University of Virginia. http://www.harcourtschool.com/activity/jefferson/j_ba.html -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Good News Sources
At 05:52 PM 11/14/2003, you wrote: Ron, What do you feel are some of the best news sources on the Web? How about off the Web? I know that Marc Schindler continually gushed over the Economist, and truth be told, I found it a good source of news. But I still read The New American, Newsmax, and Worldnet Daily on the Web. They make no pretense of objectivity, but they give me the right-wing slant that I can't get anywhere else. What am I overlooking. I'm a little bored with the news sources I've been using. I'd like to try something new. John W. Redelfs Once in a while I visit www.jrnyquist.com for a little different viewpoint of the right wing slant. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Moscow's Strategy. . . The dialectic of this offensive consists of a calculated shift from the old, discredited Soviet practice to a new, liberalized model, with a social democratic Facade, to realize the communist planners strategy for establishing a United Europe. At the beginning they introduced a variation of the 1968 Czechoslovakian 'democratization.' At a later phase they will shift to a variation of the Czechoslovakian takeover of 1948. -Anatoliy Golitsyn, _New Lies for Old_, 1984 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Status of Communism
Here is an excerpt from an article by J. R. Nyquist, who in my opinion is one of the leading experts on Communism: quote You see, when communism died all the communists, all at once, were raptured (like Christians during the end times). All those professors at your local university who once talked glowingly of Karl Marx, Uncle Ho and Fidel, were caught up in the clouds and carried off. All that left wing agitation against war and imperialism, all those peace protestors, the Green Party, the politically correct crowd -- none of their ideas have anything in common with communist ideas. And that's why they were left behind. It's only a coincidence that they hate capitalism, yearn for the collective ownership of the means of production and love the underprivileged. Just because these people subscribe to all the major communist ideas of the past, it doesn't mean they're communists. Please remember your history. The world's communists were caught up in the twinkling of an eye, on Christmas Day 1991, and nobody has seen hide nor hair of them since. /quote For those interested further, you can read the whole article here: http://www.jrnyquist.com/nyquist_2003_1109.htm -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wishing to advance in a room full of people, I do not walk through the aisle and straight toward my goal. Nor do I move slowly through the crowd shaking hands with friends and acquaintances, discussing points of interest, gradually nearing the objective. The dialectical pathway is different. It consists of a resolute forward advance followed by an abrupt turn and retreat. Having retreated a distance there is another turn and advance. Through a series of forward-backward steps the goal is approached. To advance thus is to advance dialectically. The Communist goal is fixed and changeless, but their direction of advance reverses itself from time to time. They approach their goal by going directly away from it a considerable portion of the time. Lenin wrote the textbook, One Step Forward, Two Steps Back. Chinese Communist schoolchildren are taught to do the dialectical march taking three steps forward and two steps back. If we judge where the Communists are going by the direction in which they are moving we will obviously be deceived. (Dr. Fred Schwarz, Founder of the Christian Anti-Communism Crusade and Author of, _You Can Trust the Communists: To be Communists_) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Communism and the Terrorist Connection
Stanislav Lunev was a Colonel in Russian Military Intelligence (GRU). In 1992 he defected to the west and subsequently wrote a book entitled, _Through the Eyes of the Enemy_. In this book Lunev makes an interesting revelation: the support and sponsorship of terrorist actions is more than justified for the GRU. He then tells how the Japanese Aum Shinryko cult was trained by Russian Spetsnaz squads. He then goes on, Most of the Arab terrorist groups were also trained by Spetsnaz, and [In] the early 1990s, the GRU decided that it would train any terrorist group that was able to pay for it. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Communism is Satan's counterfeit for the gospel plan, and . . . it is an avowed enemy of the God of the land. (Marion G. Romney, 1st Presidency Message, September 1979) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Punch Their Lights Out
At 03:18 PM 11/12/2003, RBS wrote: been interesting. A high school classmate of mine, an ACLU lawyer, Apparently your friend is not aware of the ACLU's origins: http://www.geocities.com/graymada/aclu.html Which explains a great deal about the issues the ACLU chooses to get involved with. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only constant in the world is change--Karl Marx // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] President Benson As Icon of The Right (Was: Punch their...)
At 09:56 AM 11/13/2003, RBS (Or is that just plain BS grin) wrote: Because you write well, Steven, I assume you're a reasonably bright guy. But, when I read you web site practically the only prophet you cite is Ezra Taft Benson. I don't agree with President Benson's politics, but I do believe he was a good man and was entitled to to make his own political choices, as we all are. But, Steven, when you were building the site, did you not wonder why virtually no other apostle or prophet (of his era) sang the Communist Threat to Momronism song as often and as stridently as President Benson did (sure, President McKay added a few odd things, but not much). And, further that no current prophet or apostle has picked-up the President Benson's there's a commie on every streetcorner rag? No other Apostle or Prophet needs to. President Benson did such a great job laying that foundation grin. Besides, imo, the Book of Mormon does a lot better job of warning us about the perils of secret combinations and conspiracies designed to overthrow governments than even President Benson did grin. So why is that bright guy like you doesn't see the need to flesh-out his political/religious views using comments, observations and instructions from the other prophets of the Church? Should I worry that you and people like you are hiding out in the weeds, ready at a moment's notice to divide the church along political lines, or establish The Church of Ezra Taft Benson and tell the rest of us to go straight to hell? Just curious. Mostly I use the scriptures and the Founding Fathers to flesh out my political views. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] But where some say is the king of America? I´ll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the royal brute of Great Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honors, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the Word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other. (Thomas Paine, _Common Sense_) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Punch their lights out
At 08:25 AM 11/13/2003, RB Scott wrote: Which explains a great deal about the issues the ACLU chooses to get involved with. And the examples you have in mind would be? Well, if I have to point them out to you it wouldn't do any good anyway. You already have your mind made up. Most reasonable people, if they've paid any attention at all to current events, can see the bitter fruits that the ACLU produces. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is no accident, then, that so many who gathered at Philadelphia to declare independence and a decade later to draft a constitution were men who had apprenticed themselves to Thucydides, Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, and Cicero, and who could debate at length on the various constitutional forms of the classical world before they chose one for the new American nation. We owe our very existence as a people in great part to classical learning.T. L. Simmons // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thrift!
At 05:17 PM 11/11/2003, you wrote: Steven, I remember running around in a jeep. Not mine, but it sure was fun to run across the desert out from El Paso. The Jeep I rode around in was a WWII Jeep manufactured by Ford, and had a small block Ford dropped into it. The problem was the driver, a friend of JWR me would twist off axels and I spent more than one night out in the desert fiddling with a broken Jeep. The only time I got stuck with my Jeep was when I high centered it near Steinaker Reservoir, north of Vernal. It was on a narrow steep ridge-line that sloped off both ways and also sloped off front and back. I couldn't winch it, had absolutely no traction on any wheels, and couldn't budge it myself. I ended up paying a tow truck $50. All he had to do was put out a long line and then pull me about 3 feet, just enough to get me going again. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do I err, then, in believing that the universe is built upon symbols, to the end that it may bear record of its all-wise Architect and Builder? God teaches with symbols; it is his favorite method of teaching. The Savior often used them. (Orson F. Whitney, Improvement Era, August 1927) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thrift!
At 08:06 AM 11/12/2003, you wrote: At 06:31 AM 11/12/2003 -0700, St Steven wrote: The only time I got stuck with my Jeep was when I high centered it near Steinaker Reservoir, north of Vernal. It was on a narrow steep ridge-line that sloped off both ways and also sloped off front and back. I couldn't winch it, had absolutely no traction on any wheels, and couldn't budge it myself. I ended up paying a tow truck $50. All he had to do was put out a long line and then pull me about 3 feet, just enough to get me going again. That's when bumper jacks shine. Just jack one end up as far as you can get it, then give it a shove to tip it over (if the cuss-ed thing hasn't tipped over already). Repeat until clear. Once turned a car completely around like that in a narrow cut driveway up to my wazoo in snow. Or, in this instance, you could possibly have put rocks under the wheels one at a time as you got them airborn. Sort of built up enough cairn to float it free. Till the been there done that I agree. I still have several Handyman jacks. But, in the particular bind I was in, since I was at the pinnacle of a very narrow steep ridge, I didn't have anyplace to put the jack, it wouldn't hold no matter where I put it or tried to brace it, so--I broke down and paid $50.00 to have a tow truck nudge me just enough to get me off. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only constant in the world is change--Karl Marx // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Thrift!
At 03:35 PM 11/10/2003, you wrote: Yes, yes, Till once had a bugeye Austin Healy Sprite*. Absolute fun to drive. The only drawbacks were the long gap between 2nd and 3rd gear, and the absence of side windows (had curtains) when it was cold. Sure miss that little blue Frog! I had a 1953 Healy 100. It was a sports car of sorts, but it had a 4 banger 2800 cc engine and transmission out of a tractor. You could climb up the side of a building in first gear, maxing out at 4 MPH. I bet it couldn't beat my 1953 Willey's Jeep 4 banger I used to own. Once in 4-Wheel Drive, I could idle my way up steep hillsides. That old Jeep was great fun. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Signs Yet to Come
At 07:11 PM 11/10/2003, JWR wrote: 19. No man can buy or sell without the mark of the beast Just what is the mark of the beast? Is it an actual physical bio-chip, as most fundamental Baptists or Christian fundamentalists believe? Or does it mean something else. Below are my thoughts, in an essay I once wrote upon the subject: 666: OF MEN, MARKS, BEASTS AND THE SEALING POWER! By: Steven Montgomery One of the overarching themes of the Book of Revelation deals with the victory that Jesus Christ and the righteous have over Satan, Babylon and mankind's twin nemesis, both Spiritual and Physical Death. The righteous, we are informed by Revelation 15:2 are those who gain victory over the Beast and thus qualify to live on this earth in its Celestial Glory. It's interesting to note that those who accept Christ and overcome Satan are sealed up unto eternal life by having Christ's name written on their foreheads (see Rev. 7:3 and 22:4). Under the law of Moses the Israelites were commanded to wear phylacteries on their hands or frontlets upon their foreheads which were little boxes that contained certain scriptures written inside them as a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth or in other words that the righteous were to treasure up the words of Christ in their heart and soul and to physically bind these items on their hands or foreheads as a sign of this fact (see Exodus 13:9,16; Deut. 6:8; 11:18). Satan, as the great counterfeiter, also seals his followers with a mark in their hand or forehead. But what is this mark and what does it represent? Is it an actual physical mark or merely symbolic? What characterizes those who have the mark? As a result of the fall of Adam and without the atonement of Jesus Christ, man is carnal sensual and devilish. Thus Satan causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to receive his mark in their right hand or in their forehead. Since this is a mark which affects all mankind it clearly cannot be an actual physical one. It is symbolic. Thus It represents man in his mortal state and without the atonement of Jesus Christ, who truly cannot buy or sell without the mark of Satan (see Rev. 13:16-18; 14:1, 9-11; 17:5). It is also significant to note in Rev. 14:9-11, that those who thus follow Satan and receive his mark on their forehead or hand, suffer the wrath of God, are tormented with fire and brimstone, and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever--quite a punishment just for accepting a mark for food, as the christian fundamentalists believe, especially if one did so without knowledge or innocently! Reading these scriptures in context just doesn't bear this viewpoint up. It should be obvious that the punishment mentioned here is the hell that all of Satan's followers receive after the last judgment. Also of note is the mention in Rev. 17:5 that spiritual Babylon will have the words MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH written on her forehead. Do the Christian fundamentalists really believe that there will be a great Babylon arise up with these literal words on her forehead? Well, what about the number of the beasts name, 666? Consistent with Moses 6:63, which states that all things are created and made to bear record of Christ, or in some manner testifying of the gospel plan, the number 6 to the Jews represented Man under sin. For example man was created on the 6th day. Cain's descendants are listed to the 6th generation. There are 66 generations listed from King David to Joseph. The Man of Sin or Satan is represented by the number 666. The 6th letter of the Hebrew Alphabet is the letter vav which is the sign of the nail. Symbolically, the numeral 6 when written or printed, appears to signify a coiled snake--ready to strike. The number 7, on the other hand, represented God's seal, often called the perfect number by the ancients. For example, god sanctified the 7th day and blessed it. The week has 7 days. The 7th day was the Old Testament Holy Day or Sabbath. Joshua ordered his people to march around Jericho 7 days with 7 priests, and 7 times on the 7th day. 7 is also significant in the natural creation. The musical scale has 7 full notes. Pure light is broken into 7 colors by a prism or rainbow. Jesus Christ received 7 wounds on his body. Furthermore, in connection with the number 666, It's interesting to consider that the jewish cabalistic magic square (those square mathematical puzzles which when added up either horizontally or vertically add up to the same number) of the sun (or Son!) when totaled adds up to 666. Additionally when the 12 (symbolic of the twelve disciples) diagonal squares (the letter x or sign of Christ) are added they each total 111 which when both are added to 666 become 888, the gematria value of Jesus. In addition a circle can fit
Re: [ZION] Thrift!
I'll be glad to take it off your hands--in ten or fifteen years, after it
has depreciated sufficiently grin.
--
Steven Montgomery
At 06:15 PM 11/8/2003, you wrote:
Kent suggests:
I bought a brand new Ford 150 for $32,000 (more than the price of my first
house $24,000) and have to pay $530 a month for the next six years... I
may not be able to work long enough to pay it off {8^).
Steven Montgomery wrote:
Hello fellow Zionistas,
A little more than eight years ago we (My wife and I, and actually it was
mostly my wife's idea) purchased an old 1979 Ford Pickup with a fairly
new engine for $800.00. The pickup was used quite often, to get me to and
from work, and for various and sundry hauling projects. Other than new
tires, a new battery, a new fan belt, and changing the oil occasionally,
absolutely nothing was done to the pickup--not even a tune-up grin. It
was a lean mean hauling machine.
Well, the other day I traded it for an almost brand new EZ3-Trike (A 21
speed recumbent trike which can go faster than a mountain bike. My kids
can't ride a regular bike so we were looking for various types of trikes
that they could ride) worth $750.00. Which means that after using the
pickup for more than eight years we sold it for only $50.00 less than we
what we bought it for. How's that for thrift? Anyone else have similar
thrift stories to tell?
--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
But where some say is the king of America? I´ll tell you Friend, he
reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the royal brute of
Great Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly
honors, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let
it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the Word of God; let a
crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we
approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute
governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be
King; and there ought to be no other. (Thomas Paine, _Common Sense_)
//
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RE: [ZION] Dungeons and Dragons
At 09:29 PM 11/8/2003, you wrote: If you want to know whos King, whos God in America, look at your checkbook. Pax et Bonum, John A.E., n/OEF I never get a chance to--my wife always has it grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Explore Freedom: http://www.geocities.com/graymada // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Thrift!
Hello fellow Zionistas, A little more than eight years ago we (My wife and I, and actually it was mostly my wife's idea) purchased an old 1979 Ford Pickup with a fairly new engine for $800.00. The pickup was used quite often, to get me to and from work, and for various and sundry hauling projects. Other than new tires, a new battery, a new fan belt, and changing the oil occasionally, absolutely nothing was done to the pickup--not even a tune-up grin. It was a lean mean hauling machine. Well, the other day I traded it for an almost brand new EZ3-Trike (A 21 speed recumbent trike which can go faster than a mountain bike. My kids can't ride a regular bike so we were looking for various types of trikes that they could ride) worth $750.00. Which means that after using the pickup for more than eight years we sold it for only $50.00 less than we what we bought it for. How's that for thrift? Anyone else have similar thrift stories to tell? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] But where some say is the king of America? I´ll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the royal brute of Great Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honors, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the Word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other. (Thomas Paine, _Common Sense_) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Dungeons and Dragons
At 05:41 AM 11/8/2003, Cousin Bill wrote: New thread attempt number 2. The topic of Dungeons and Dragons has come up before. Someone forwarded this to me, so I thought I would forward it to you guys. If you've never played DD then you might not understand what you come out as. But this link shows you what alignment, race, and class you would be. http://twinrose.net/dandchar.php It decided I would be a Chaotic Good Half-Elf Bard. I don't know but what it picked me out pretty well. Give it a try. Hmm. I turned out as a Lawful Good Halfling Fighter Monk. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] But where some say is the king of America? I´ll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the royal brute of Great Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honors, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the Word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other. (Thomas Paine, _Common Sense_) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Thrift!
At 11:30 AM 11/8/2003, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: Well, the other day I traded it for an almost brand new EZ3-Trike (A 21 speed recumbent trike which can go faster than a mountain bike. My kids can't ride a regular bike so we were looking for various types of trikes that they could ride) worth $750.00. Which means that after using the pickup for more than eight years we sold it for only $50.00 less than we what we bought it for. How's that for thrift? Anyone else have similar thrift stories to tell? In 1975 I bought a 1964 Oldsmobile Cutlass for a hundred dollars. Fours years and 40,000 miles later I sold it for 30 dollars to a junk man. During that 4 years I did all the work on it myself. The only time I ever took it to a mechanic was for a smog inspection certificate. --JWR Another time (Somewhere between 1992 and 1995) I bought a used Datsun B-210 (I don't remember the year) for $350.00. After driving it for five years, with absolutely no maintenance on it except new tires and a new battery, I gave it away to a kid in the neighborhood. I figured that if the original amount was spread out over those five years I spent less than $6.00 a month. What's more, every year my taxes and insurance was much lower than if I owned a new car. Unless one can really afford a new car I don't see the benefit to owning one. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] But where some say is the king of America? I´ll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the royal brute of Great Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honors, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the Word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other. (Thomas Paine, _Common Sense_) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] This is Me
Thanks Tom. Now I now more perfectly what a great man you are. -- Steven Montgomery At 04:59 PM 11/7/2003, you wrote: I wear hats. Fedora's, Pendletons, Straws, Outbacks, and the like. rest snipped, for brevity -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who was Joseph Smith? The Book of Mormon tells us he was of the seed of Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and hence he was selected as Abraham was to fulfil a work upon the earth. God chose this young man. He was ignorant of letters as the world has it, but the most profoundly learned and intelligent man that I ever met in my life, and I have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, been on different continents and mingled among all classes and creeds of people, yet I have never met a man so intelligent as he was. And where did he get his intelligence from? Not from books, not from the logic or science or philosophy of the day, but he obtained it through the revelation of God made known to him through the medium of the everlasting gospel.John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 04:58 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love At 03:37 PM 11/6/2003, Ron Scott wrote: President Benson was good enough for me. His politics were not. For additional comments, see my response to your fellow traveler. Ron Scott That's fine. The politics can come later--as you gain more light and knowledge grin. Which reminds me of a joke. Something about newborn mice being good communists. When the commissar come back a few weeks later he discovers they are not communists anymore--their eyes had opened. Or something to that effect. Say, who are you and your pals chasing now that there aren't commies and pinkos in every commode and closet? What!? You mean there aren't any now? vbg -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only constant in the world is change--Karl Marx // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 05:52 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: Ron Scott wrote: I'm pretty sure there are some Korihors and wolves in sheep's clothing. Ezra Taft Benson said so. grin --JWR He did? When? Was he eyeballing his son? grin Maybe he was eyeballing his grandson, Steve. double grin --JWR Rotfl -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] We will not despair, for the cause of human freedom is the cause of God. --Joshua R. Giddings // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
At 07:36 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: John W. Redelfs wrote: --- Would that all the single men in the Church were as devoted to keeping the commandment to marry as seriously as you did and do. --- Many of us take it seriously too. As a single man I am working on addressing this concern as quickly as sanity and comfort can afford. I have discovered that it is not an easy thing for an older man. As one who didn't find his wife till somewhat later in life I empathize with you. I sincerely hope and pray that you find a good woman. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is no accident, then, that so many who gathered at Philadelphia to declare independence and a decade later to draft a constitution were men who had apprenticed themselves to Thucydides, Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, and Cicero, and who could debate at length on the various constitutional forms of the classical world before they chose one for the new American nation. We owe our very existence as a people in great part to classical learning.T. L. Simmons // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
I'm currently reading: _The Moral Basis of a Free Society_, by H. Verlan Andersen. Lysistrata, by Aristophanes. _The Hound of the Baskervilles_, by Arthur Conan Doyle. The play by Aristophanes is book two of a Great Books of the Western World reading plan (See: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/books/gb195210.html ) that I have embarked upon. There are many such plans available. Many of the books (Or selections) I have already read so I might skip them and replace them with others. What books would you (Or should I) include in a ten-year reading list? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Brief Bio
Here is my brief bio: Steven Ray Montgomery 5055 Tomahawk Enoch UT 84720 Fifty years old and happily married to the former Mary Jane Rising. Mary hails from Grand Forks North Dakota and is a convert to the Church from Catholicism. Mary brought with her two kids from a former marriage, Kristi--age 26, and Eric--age 18. We have two kids of our own. Steven James--age 14, and Alex Jay--age 12. All four of our kids have various and different disabilities. Kristi is mildly mentally retarded and has some physical and social disabilty. Eric has advanced kidney disease (Eric is a kidney transplant recipient) and severe mental retardation. Steven James (Probably the most normal) was born with Laryngeal Malatia and has some verbal disability. While our last one, has mild mental retardation and a very mild form of Cerebal Palsy and Epilepsy. As you can see, my family keeps us very busy. I was born and raised in Vernal Utah but now reside in a small town five miles north of Cedar City. We love the small town life. From October 1973 to October 1975 I served a mission to New Zealand. The Auckland New Zealand Mission. I was the first one from my Dad's side of the family to serve a mission. Contrary to what might be the impression, or the opinion of some on this list, my main gospel hobby is not politics--but that of studying the scriptures and words of the brethren. I love the scriptures and love studying the doctrine. I have been Gospel Doctrine teacher on (let's see...is it four different occasions?). I've served in many positions from being in an Elder's Quorum Presidency, Young Men's President, etc. Currently I'm Ward Clerk of the Enoch 1st Ward. I graduated from Southern Utah State College with a degree in Political Science/History and am a former school teacher. Taught U.S. History and American National Government at Mt. Vernon Academy in Murray Utah. However, I've never made much money in my life and finances always seem to be a problem grin. But somehow we seem to make it through. I've been online since the early 90's and have been a member on ZION since I first discovered its existence sometime around about 1997. I have a love of learning and enjoy the discussions that we have on various subjects. Lately I haven't had much time to participate as much as I would like however. I give much credit to the Lord for the blessings that has come for our family. We wouldn't even be in a house of our own today were it not for his great mercy and loving kindness towards us. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
At 01:11 PM 11/7/2003, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: The play by Aristophanes is book two of a Great Books of the Western World reading plan (See: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/books/gb195210.html ) that I have embarked upon. There are many such plans available. Many of the books (Or selections) I have already read so I might skip them and replace them with others. What books would you (Or should I) include in a ten-year reading list? There have been 15 Presidents of the Church in this dispensation. Have you read the standard compilation of the sermons of each? If not, they should be on a ten year reading list. --JWR Let's see, if I recall correctly, I've read the Teachings of President Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter and Gordon B. Hinckley. I've also read the Journal of Discourses. I have also read the complete (to my knowledge, at least) published works of, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Bruce R. McConkie, and Gordon B. Hinckley. In addition I've read much of the writings of every other Prophet of this dispensation. As well as many other books, biographies and histories. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 03:40 PM 11/5/2003, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love At 10:17 AM 11/5/2003, you wrote: At 04:50 PM 11/5/2003 +, Gary wrote: What is important is that we don't twist that love as did Nehor and as do many today, to excuse their sinful natures. Has anyone taken the time and energy to look at the Anti-Christs in the Book of Mormon, such as Nehors, Korihor and company, to see how their philosophies play out in today's society? Since there's nothing new under the sun, I suspect that all of these abominations appear today, probably rather thinly cloaked, in the hype of today's cool thinking. President Benson thought so. For instance, in his famous talk (Which he gave over 37 different times. Not only in General Conference but to Regional Conferences, Regional Representatives Seminars, reprinted as the 1st Presidency Message in the Ensign, and in various wards he visited) entitled, The Book of Mormon is the Word of God, he stated that the second major purpose of the Book of Mormon was to expose, the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrines and lays down contention. (See 2 Nephi 3:12.) It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of the devil in our day. The type of apostates in the Book of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. God, with his infinite foreknowledge, so molded the Book of Mormon that we might see the error and know how to combat false educational, political, religious, and philosophical concepts of our time. I, for one, cannot read Alma chapter 30 without coming to the same conclusion that President Benson did. Korihor was exhibiting many of the philosophies we here about today. Such as atheism, secular humanism, and survival of the fittest. I'd guess it would be wiser of me to withhold comment on a topic so potentially explosive here. So I will demur. But for me, and perhaps a few others, please refine your alarm. Give us specific examples of the kinds of apostates we have today (as foretold in the Book of Mormon) and how secular humanism and athiesm are bigger threats to us today than they were, say, a couple of hundred years ago. Ron Scott Sure. I'll try. Korihor typifies those today who practice no religion at all. Man doesn't need God because there isn't one. Man only prospers according to his own genius or abilities. Whether practiced by extreme capitalists (Corporate raiders come to mind) or Marxists (A progressive society which will eventually evolve into a communist utopia). Nehor typifies those who proclaim for an easy religion. Man doesn't really need to do anything other than profess a vague awareness or belief in God. The example of the Zoramites typify those who selfish-hypocritical religionists. God has chosen them to be better than others. I'd say that the Book of Mormon does a pretty good job of speaking out against those who proclaim a return to naturalism, social or moral relativism, hedonism and the idea prevalent in today's society that man only achieves anything through his own efforts and abilities. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Definitions
At 07:22 PM 11/5/2003, you wrote: I think that just as there are true doctrines and the twisted apostate faux copies made by Satan, there are true passions and then there are faux passions created by Satan. Therefore, I believe God is capable of love, but not lust. God is capable of a Godly hatred of wickedness, but not an evil hatred of all. God is capable of desire, but does not fly into a rage of jealousy. Lust in a perfected state is still lust. Love in its perfected state is called charity. Well, again it might be a matter of semantics, but what about a lust for righteousness? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who was Joseph Smith? The Book of Mormon tells us he was of the seed of Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and hence he was selected as Abraham was to fulfil a work upon the earth. God chose this young man. He was ignorant of letters as the world has it, but the most profoundly learned and intelligent man that I ever met in my life, and I have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, been on different continents and mingled among all classes and creeds of people, yet I have never met a man so intelligent as he was. And where did he get his intelligence from? Not from books, not from the logic or science or philosophy of the day, but he obtained it through the revelation of God made known to him through the medium of the everlasting gospel.John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 07:49 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: So for the moment I will abide your claims above. Meantime, please answer the key question I asked earlier: Give us specific examples of ... how secular humanism and athiesm are bigger threats to us today than they were, say, a couple of hundred years ago. Church membership is up. Ditto church attendance. Ditto people who identify themselves as a member of a church. Ron Don't know if I can Ron. I think beliefs, attitudes and philosophies (as in many other things) go in cycles though. Just because Church attendance is up today doesn't mean there will not be a resurgence of humanistic or atheistic belief tomorrow. Besides--what's your point in asking? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] O ye Priest of Baal. O, ye gentile religionest O. ye inhabitants of Babylon possessing the Mark of the beast What knowledge have ye of the ordinances or blessings or virtues of the house Church of God? (The Kirtland Diary of Wilford Woodruff) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 08:09 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love At 07:49 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: So for the moment I will abide your claims above. Meantime, please answer the key question I asked earlier: Give us specific examples of ... how secular humanism and athiesm are bigger threats to us today than they were, say, a couple of hundred years ago. Church membership is up. Ditto church attendance. Ditto people who identify themselves as a member of a church. Ron Don't know if I can Ron. I think beliefs, attitudes and philosophies (as in many other things) go in cycles though. Just because Church attendance is up today doesn't mean there will not be a resurgence of humanistic or atheistic belief tomorrow. Besides--what's your point in asking? Although my memory is faulty, I recall a claim that we've lost or are losing our because of the rise of secular humanism, agnosticism, communism, athieism all the old bugaboos...when, in fact, the stats (I saw them a couple of weeks ago) suggest just the opposite. Therefore, your fear of a resurgence is not supported by history. We've been there, done that and survived quite nicely. To me such worries have a familiar John Birchian ring to them, no offense intended. Ron Scott Actually, I think history supports me quite nicely. And I'll take the John Birchian comment as a compliment--thank you. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 11:43 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: Ron Scott wrote: Well, by all means, clue them in as to what they've been missing. Be sure to show how it correlates neatly with Mormon teachings. Do I detect a note of sarcasm here.? LOL --JWR More like a whole symphony grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society (See DC 1:14-16; 84:49-53). It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world (see Ether 8:18-25). - President Ezra Taft Benson General Conference, October 1988 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 10:36 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love Just hazarding a guess, but I suspect that most people, some on this list even, haven't the foggiest idea what the John Birch Society is really about. All they know about it is what they've heard on TV, radio or the newspapers. Or perhaps from Secular Humanist College Professors grin. Well, by all means, clue them in as to what they've been missing. Be sure to show how it correlates neatly with Mormon teachings. Ron Nah. I won't bother. Those who are really interested will find out. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those of us who take note of and criticize abuses of power by the federal bureaucracy are often accused of being anti-government. This is not only untrue, it is the exact opposite of the truth. The John Birch Society and those who share our constitutionalist point of view are emphatically pro-government so much so, in fact, that we want to see as many governments as possible dividing power and responsibilities, and keeping each other in check. What we oppose is the alternative the effective abolition of local, county, and state governments and their absorption into a monolithic federal state, which in turn would ultimately be subsumed into a global leviathan directed by the United Nations.--WNG The Review of the News Oct 13, 2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 12:48 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love At 11:43 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: Ron Scott wrote: Well, by all means, clue them in as to what they've been missing. Be sure to show how it correlates neatly with Mormon teachings. Do I detect a note of sarcasm here.? LOL --JWR More like a whole symphony grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society (See DC 1:14-16; 84:49-53). It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world (see Ether 8:18-25). - President Ezra Taft Benson General Conference, October 1988 Ah, the Church of Ezra resurrects itself. Who is its profit: Reed? Oh--Benson not good enough for you? Well, how about the pattern found in the following scriptures then: Alma 8:16,17; 10:27; 30:6-53; 43:29,45; 46:4-7, 10; 47:4,8,18,24,30,35; 48:1,7; 51:2,5-8, 13; 61:4; 62:9-10 Helaman 1:7-12; 2:1-14; 3:23; 4:22; 6:17-41; 7:4-5, 25; 8:1-4,7; 10:6,11; 11:10,26 3 Nephi 1:27; 2:11-12, 17-19; 3:1-26; 6:21-30; 7:1-2; 9:9 4 Nephi 42 Mormon 8:27 Ether 8:9-26; 9:5-6 -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . in the future the opposition from Satan will be both more subtle and more open. While in some ways it may be more blatant, it will be masked with greater sophistication and cunning. We will need greater spirituality to perceive all the forms of evil and greater strength to resist it. (President James E. Faust, CR, April 2003) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 03:37 PM 11/6/2003, Ron Scott wrote: President Benson was good enough for me. His politics were not. For additional comments, see my response to your fellow traveler. Ron Scott That's fine. The politics can come later--as you gain more light and knowledge grin. Which reminds me of a joke. Something about newborn mice being good communists. When the commissar come back a few weeks later he discovers they are not communists anymore--their eyes had opened. Or something to that effect. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Definitions (was: RE: Eternal Life vs. Immortality)
At 10:15 AM 11/5/2003, Stephen Beecroft wrote: I believe this is the case with God's hatred of sinful and unrepentant individuals. Some object to the term hate, thinking that somehow it lessens God's majesty or perfection to hate anyone or anything; or perhaps they're afraid that if perfect love does not preclude hatred, maybe God won't love them. Joseph Smith taught (Or at least someone authorized by Joseph Smith) in the Lectures On Faith, that not only was God a God of passions but was a being in whom, . . . all fulness and perfection dwell. Furthermore, in order to exercise complete faith in God unto Salvation, man must have a correct understanding of God's character, perfections, and attributes. I believe Joseph Smith. I believe that God experiences *all* the passions that we humans do, including hate, jealousy, envy, and yes--even lust--but only in their perfected state. Is God a jealous God? Yes, but his jealousy is that of a perfected state. Is God a envious God? Yes, but his envy is that of a perfected state. In other words, I don't believe there is a passion or emotion, that we humans usually think of as negative ones, that God doesn't possess. God however, experiences hate and envy in a far different manner than us mortals do. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do I err, then, in believing that the universe is built upon symbols, to the end that it may bear record of its all-wise Architect and Builder? God teaches with symbols; it is his favorite method of teaching. The Savior often used them. (Orson F. Whitney, Improvement Era, August 1927) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 10:17 AM 11/5/2003, you wrote: At 04:50 PM 11/5/2003 +, Gary wrote: What is important is that we don't twist that love as did Nehor and as do many today, to excuse their sinful natures. Has anyone taken the time and energy to look at the Anti-Christs in the Book of Mormon, such as Nehors, Korihor and company, to see how their philosophies play out in today's society? Since there's nothing new under the sun, I suspect that all of these abominations appear today, probably rather thinly cloaked, in the hype of today's cool thinking. President Benson thought so. For instance, in his famous talk (Which he gave over 37 different times. Not only in General Conference but to Regional Conferences, Regional Representatives Seminars, reprinted as the 1st Presidency Message in the Ensign, and in various wards he visited) entitled, The Book of Mormon is the Word of God, he stated that the second major purpose of the Book of Mormon was to expose, the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrines and lays down contention. (See 2 Nephi 3:12.) It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of the devil in our day. The type of apostates in the Book of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. God, with his infinite foreknowledge, so molded the Book of Mormon that we might see the error and know how to combat false educational, political, religious, and philosophical concepts of our time. I, for one, cannot read Alma chapter 30 without coming to the same conclusion that President Benson did. Korihor was exhibiting many of the philosophies we here about today. Such as atheism, secular humanism, and survival of the fittest. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . in the future the opposition from Satan will be both more subtle and more open. While in some ways it may be more blatant, it will be masked with greater sophistication and cunning. We will need greater spirituality to perceive all the forms of evil and greater strength to resist it. (President James E. Faust, CR, April 2003) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] About Marc
At 11:19 AM 11/3/2003, you wrote: -Steven- I think highly of you too. Are you sure you don't want to reconsider and be a part of ZION again? Steven, I'm flattered that you even remember me. My good friend John has asked that I return, as well. Guess he thought there wasn't enough bickering on the list... As you might be able to tell from my delayed response, I have very little time these days for online correspondence, but I will keep my Zion membership active and see if I can contribute occasionally. Thanks for the warm welcome. Stephen I'm glad you're back. I always enjoy your point of view and your tremendous ability to wordsmith. Like you, my life has become very busy as well. I mostly now lurk with an occasional crumb, delectable morsel, and once in a blue moon a full course meal grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who was Joseph Smith? The Book of Mormon tells us he was of the seed of Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and hence he was selected as Abraham was to fulfil a work upon the earth. God chose this young man. He was ignorant of letters as the world has it, but the most profoundly learned and intelligent man that I ever met in my life, and I have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, been on different continents and mingled among all classes and creeds of people, yet I have never met a man so intelligent as he was. And where did he get his intelligence from? Not from books, not from the logic or science or philosophy of the day, but he obtained it through the revelation of God made known to him through the medium of the everlasting gospel.John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wish List
At 02:52 PM 11/3/2003, you wrote: Yes, I had heard. In fact, I resubbed to Zion a while ago to express my condolences. I figured if we were making a wish list, though, I could wish as I wished... Stephen Well, if that's how we are wishing I'll bet Oliver Cowdery would be an interesting guy on Zion, and how about Nephi? Sam would be a super lurker. And what about J. Golden Kimball? And I think Esther and Ruth would be good. Tom Or how about Porter Rockwell, the Pratt brothers, and Heber C. Kimball? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. --John Adams // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Roll Call
At 12:59 PM 10/30/2003, JWR wrote: I wish Marc Schindler would return, but I guess that is asking for too much. Perhaps someone could volunteer to channel him--especially since its Halloween today grin. Sorry, (almost) for the grim humor. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . in the future the opposition from Satan will be both more subtle and more open. While in some ways it may be more blatant, it will be masked with greater sophistication and cunning. We will need greater spirituality to perceive all the forms of evil and greater strength to resist it. (President James E. Faust, CR, April 2003) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Remembering a Friend
contemplate the death of such a good friend, is the notion that we take that same spirit that we have now into the next life (Alma 34:34) and that the same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory. (DC 130:2) We have greatly enjoyed the sociality of our dear friend Marc Schindler and hope for the privilege of renewing and continuing it at some future time under the blessing and joy of eternal glory. Goodbye then, dear friend and brother. We love you and weep for your loving family, praying that the Comforter will visit them most abundantly and constantly. May you be given your own glorified Heavenly Internet connection with everlasting high speed and no bandwidth limitations. You've earned it. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who was Joseph Smith? The Book of Mormon tells us he was of the seed of Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and hence he was selected as Abraham was to fulfil a work upon the earth. God chose this young man. He was ignorant of letters as the world has it, but the most profoundly learned and intelligent man that I ever met in my life, and I have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, been on different continents and mingled among all classes and creeds of people, yet I have never met a man so intelligent as he was. And where did he get his intelligence from? Not from books, not from the logic or science or philosophy of the day, but he obtained it through the revelation of God made known to him through the medium of the everlasting gospel.John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] About Marc
At 02:25 PM 10/21/2003, you wrote: Dear friends, I've resubscribed so that I might express to you my sense of loss at Marc Schindler's passing. I did not always treat Marc with the respect he deserved or give adequate weight to his opinions in some matters; shamefully, I used this very forum more than once to express my displeasure at him. In fact, I thought very highly of Marc and learned much from him, not just about history and politics but about email communication, maturity, and tolerance for diverse and seeming wrong-headed opinions. As I wrote to Marc's father and brother and a few other people, this world is a better place for Marc's having lived in it, and I only hope the same can be said for each of us when our time comes to leave this sphere. I've offended many of you with my insensitive blundering, or my sharp tongue, or my occasional sarcasm, or my strange sense of humor that often sounds like sarcasm. For that, I apologize and ask your forgiveness. Though I am no longer a part of this forum, I have fond memories of it and its participants, and sincerely wish you the best. Stephen Thank you Stephen. As I mentioned earlier (which you might have missed, since you just resubscribed) I will miss Marc. I thought highly of him--even though we had our disagreements. I think highly of you too. Are you sure you don't want to reconsider and be a part of ZION again? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who was Joseph Smith? The Book of Mormon tells us he was of the seed of Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and hence he was selected as Abraham was to fulfil a work upon the earth. God chose this young man. He was ignorant of letters as the world has it, but the most profoundly learned and intelligent man that I ever met in my life, and I have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, been on different continents and mingled among all classes and creeds of people, yet I have never met a man so intelligent as he was. And where did he get his intelligence from? Not from books, not from the logic or science or philosophy of the day, but he obtained it through the revelation of God made known to him through the medium of the everlasting gospel.John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Marc Schindler: Very Sad News
Regarding the news of Marc Schindler's death: I'm saddened to hear this. I always found Marc to be great defender of the faith. Marc and I had our disagreements but I liked him. I will miss him too. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Mathematics
Can one of you mathematical types out there explain the mathematical terms, positional and juxtapositional to me? The quote comes from an article entitled, Doing Business in Babylon, as found in the latest BYU magazine (See it online at: http://magazine.byu.edu/article.tpl?num=44-Fa03). Here is the quote: Quote Babylon seems to be the only civilization in ancient times that used a positional system, where the value of a number was determined by its position and not its juxtaposition. Even the Roman system is juxtapositional. /Quote -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Mathematics
At 10:09 AM 10/17/2003, you wrote: At 08:09 AM 10/17/03 -0600, Steven Montgomery wrote: Can one of you mathematical types out there explain the mathematical terms, positional and juxtapositional to me? The quote comes from an article entitled, Doing Business in Babylon, as found in the latest BYU magazine (See it online at: http://magazine.byu.edu/article.tpl?num=44-Fa03). Here is the quote: Quote Babylon seems to be the only civilization in ancient times that used a positional system, where the value of a number was determined by its position and not its juxtaposition. Even the Roman system is juxtapositional. /Quote I can't get the page to come up, but here's a quick answer: In our system, the value of a number is determined by its position, as 1, 10, 100, 1000 all represent different values, depending on the position of the 1 relative to the (understood) decimal point. In Roman numerals, I always represents 1, V always represents 5, etc. One could conceivably put the letters that make up the representation of a particular number in Roman numerals in almost any order, so position is not important, except combinations like for IV for 4, IX for 9, XL for 40, etc., where the juxtaposition of a smaller numeral to the left represents a decrement of the numeral on the right. Clear as mud? -- Ronn! :) Ok, it's a little hazy but I think I've got it grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who was Joseph Smith? The Book of Mormon tells us he was of the seed of Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and hence he was selected as Abraham was to fulfil a work upon the earth. God chose this young man. He was ignorant of letters as the world has it, but the most profoundly learned and intelligent man that I ever met in my life, and I have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, been on different continents and mingled among all classes and creeds of people, yet I have never met a man so intelligent as he was. And where did he get his intelligence from? Not from books, not from the logic or science or philosophy of the day, but he obtained it through the revelation of God made known to him through the medium of the everlasting gospel.John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
At 06:45 PM 10/15/2003, you wrote: Friends, I am angered by the total lack of respect these people had for anothers faith. The behavior described is obnoxious and also unacceptable. I Pray that the perpetrators find God and see what they have done to hurt people of faith. Pax et Bonum, John A.E., n/OEF Thanks John. That means a lot coming from you, of another faith. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Martyrdom Question
In reading a short newspaper account of certain events from the life of John Taylor (See: http://www.thespectrum.com/news/stories/20030922/localnews/307727.html), including a visit made by John Taylor near Carthage shortly after the Martyrdom, one interesting question come to mind--what role did Mormons, or former Mormons, play in the role of assassinating the Prophet Joseph and his brother Hyrum? I will readily admit that Church History has never been my forte, but I'm not totally ignorant either. I at least have a general grasp of most events in Church History and have a general sense that several apostate Mormons were involved in the assassination. But I would like someone who has more knowledge in this area to enlighten me more as to specific names or characters involved. How about it, you history buffs? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is one and only one legitimate goal of United States foreign policy. It is a narrow goal, a nationalistic goal: the preservation of our national independence. Nothing in the Constitution grants that the president shall have the privilege of offering himself as a world leader. He is our executive; he is on our payroll; he is supposed to put our best interests in front of those of other nations. Nothing in the Constitution nor in logic grants to the president of the United States or to Congress the power to influence the political life of other countries, to 'uplift' their cultures, to bolster their economies, to feed their people, or even to defend them against their enemies. (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 614; see also pp. 682 704.) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thought for the day
At 12:59 PM 9/22/2003, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: At 08:44 AM 9/22/2003, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Works for me! Especially if it's Dove or Lindt chocolate! My favorite is Cadbury Royal Dark. In fact, I like them so much that I just bought 15 bars and a Rubbermaid container to keep them in. They sell them here in Juneau; but when I get back to Ketchikan, I won't have access to them. --JWR What are you doing in Juneau? Helpint my wife and daughter take care of my newborn first grandchild. I've been here about a month, and I'll probably be here another couple of weeks. Esperanza took a month of use it or lose it annual leave to help with the new baby. I'm just tagging along for want of anything more useful to do. Your friend and brother, John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congratulations Grandpa! -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom applies to all aspects of our existence, from the physical through the intellectual-emotional and the social-political to the spiritual. Liberty, a subset of freedom, refers to the social-political aspect of freedom. John Adams called God the Spirit of Liberty. (John White, _The Pledge of Allegiance the Star-spangled Banner_) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thought for the day
At 08:44 AM 9/22/2003, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Works for me! Especially if it's Dove or Lindt chocolate! My favorite is Cadbury Royal Dark. In fact, I like them so much that I just bought 15 bars and a Rubbermaid container to keep them in. They sell them here in Juneau; but when I get back to Ketchikan, I won't have access to them. --JWR What are you doing in Juneau? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Help needed for a quotation
At 05:45 AM 9/9/2003, you wrote: At 06:16 PM 9/8/2003 -0600,St Steven wrote: Help. I'm in need of a quote. It's a quote from General Conference which says (paraphrased) that in the coming years there will be greater and greater division of the righteous from the wicked. That the righteous will get more righteous and the wicked more wicked, or words to that effect. There must be someone here will have that at their fingertips grin. I, too, remembered that one, but had not been able to remember when. I just did a search and have come up with the following from the April 1983 Conference, Elder Dean L. Larson. It is pretty much as I remembered hearing it. They are wise words with which I have tried to guide my life since then. As he says, it's not always easy. I often see the Saints following a few steps behind (myself included, embarrassed to say). begin quote quote deleted, only for brevity Thanks, but John provided the quote I was searching for: The General Conference address that comes to mind is I Testify by President Ezra Taft Benson who said in October 1988 conference: I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer's leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God's wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. (See JS-H 1:45; DC 1:9.) But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (See 1 Ne. 22:15-23.) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go
At 03:41 AM 9/8/2003, you wrote: I am now positive that if one kills himself he will end up as a telestial being. Am I right on this point? Stacy. I don't think so in all cases. There are too many variables. Was the person in his right mind? How much light and truth did he/she possess? Was the person mentally ill? Whatever kingdom a person will inherit on judgement day you can be assured that God, who rightly divides, will judge a righteous judgement. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . in the future the opposition from Satan will be both more subtle and more open. While in some ways it may be more blatant, it will be masked with greater sophistication and cunning. We will need greater spirituality to perceive all the forms of evil and greater strength to resist it. (President James E. Faust, CR, April 2003) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Meaning of the Olive Press or the Winepress in Practical Terms
At 12:13 PM 9/8/2003, you wrote: Don't overlook the symbolism of the well of living water, the water of life, and the water of rebirth. Also, IIRC, the use of water was a practical solution to a societal problem, referenced in the Doctrine and Covenants. Till Yes, they didn't want to get poisoned grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] O ye Priest of Baal. O, ye gentile religionest O. ye inhabitants of Babylon possessing the Mark of the beast What knowledge have ye of the ordinances or blessings or virtues of the house Church of God (The Kirtland Diary of Wilford Woodruff) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Help needed for a quotation
Help. I'm in need of a quote. It's a quote from General Conference which says (paraphrased) that in the coming years there will be greater and greater division of the righteous from the wicked. That the righteous will get more righteous and the wicked more wicked, or words to that effect. There must be someone here will have that at their fingertips grin. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is one and only one legitimate goal of United States foreign policy. It is a narrow goal, a nationalistic goal: the preservation of our national independence. Nothing in the Constitution grants that the president shall have the privilege of offering himself as a world leader. He is our executive; he is on our payroll; he is supposed to put our best interests in front of those of other nations. Nothing in the Constitution nor in logic grants to the president of the United States or to Congress the power to influence the political life of other countries, to 'uplift' their cultures, to bolster their economies, to feed their people, or even to defend them against their enemies. (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 614; see also pp. 682 704.) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Atonement and False Doctrine?
. . . and could also be explained this way: Because Jesus Christ is literally the God of Nature, and is in all and through all things, it stands to reason that as Christ suffered, so did his creations. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:13 PM 8/25/2003, you wrote: That all can be easily explained by bearing the sins of everyone and the planets' sympathy for what was going on. I had an interesting experience while reading all of this. Shockingly, it seems I had a crazy memory of one day as a spirit being hurled around for no reason I could fathom at the time. I was pushed, shoved rudely, landed in several positions, etc. Stacy. At 10:17 AM 08/25/2003 -0600, you wrote: At 08:11 PM 8/24/2003, Stacy wrote: I see nothing to indicate anything but human sins borne out of this. Stacy. At 09:32 PM 08/24/2003 -0600, Steven Montgomery wrote: Most of John Taylor's quote from the book, _The Mediation and Atonement_ clipped, for brevity Thus, such was the torturing pressure of this intense, this indescribable agony, that it burst forth abroad beyond the confines of His body, convulsed all nature and spread throughout all space. I think you missed it then. The full depth and extent of Christ's atonement can be expressed in the sentence above, which is really a deeper explanation of several scriptures, among them: DC 19: 18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit--and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink (Note that Christ suffered both body *and* spirit. Since we are told from other scriptures that the spirit of Christ extends throughout all of space and creation this is truly an *infinite* suffering, in order to accomplish an *infinite* atonement.) 1 Nephi 19:12 And all these things must surely come, saith the prophet Zenos. And the rocks of the earth must rend; and because of the groanings of the earth, many of the kings of the isles of the sea shall be wrought upon by the Spirit of God, to exclaim: The God of nature suffers. (So you see, the suffering of Christ even extended to nature, and all of his creations, and was made possible only because the Spirit of Christ proceeds forth to fill the immensity of space (DC 88: 12). -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Explore Freedom: http://www.geocities.com/graymada // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 08/19/2003 -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
