Re: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

[Chris Fabien]

search "Fiber splicing door" on ebay if you haven't found these yet.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:37 PM,  wrote:

> Nice, thanks.
>
> *From:* David Coudron
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer
>
>
> Ice Fishing house suppliers have lots of this stuff.   This one might be
> lighter than you are looking for, but there are other options out there:
>
>
>
> http://fishhousesupply.com/fish-house-doors/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *David Coudron*
>
> david.coud...@advantenon.com |  *Mobile: *612-991-7474 <(612)%20991-7474>
>
>
>
> *Advantenon, Inc.  *   [image: cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]
>   [image:
> cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
>
> i...@advantenon.com |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447 |  www.advantenon.com |  *Phone:* 800-704-4720 <(800)%20704-4720> |
> *Local: *612-454-1545 <(612)%20454-1545>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer
>
>
>
> Is underway.
>
> Conversion to fiber splicing trailer.  Will post photos as we make
> progress.
>
> I wonder if you can buy an RV door with frame somewhere?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Faisal Imtiaz]

This is 2018, your email account is as private as a WallMart Store location.
You don't like a piece of email, send it to trash
You don't like getting emails from someone, black list it, filter it .. 
You don't like to be sent email, take your email address and go back home !

Bitching about it as if you have been violated, on a public list, does not buy 
you any favors or good graces..

:)



Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
> From: fiber...@mail.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:58:23 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
> 
> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
> 
> Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jaime Solorza]

Don't be a hater

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 7:07 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> He didn't tell you it is in his underground coffin.
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 6:30 PM  wrote:
>
>> Got a guest room waiting for you.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are
>> thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and
>> SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to
>> let me tour his chop shop.
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:
>>
>>> Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED
>>> cavern lights...  :)
>>>
>>> On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
 Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was
 born... again...
 I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still
 remember names.
 But I think we have kinda patched things up.
 They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my
 blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
 As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old
 and lazy to put on the show.
 *From:* Chuck Hogg
 *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
 Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
 listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
 time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list,
 as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan,
 some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola
 list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I
 notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped
 from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was
 going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down
 the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the
 memories :)
 Regards,
 Chuck
 On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup <
 george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

 Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
 motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
 server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
 town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
 back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
 the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
 short time on the WISPA list serv?

 I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

 On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

 You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got
 here….

 The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to
 WISPA.  Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
 organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
 the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
 of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
 Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

 Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
 called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
 even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic
 anyway.

 There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
 it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
 for the cost of hosting it.

 This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
 group of people who have known each other for a very long
 time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
 products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
 game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
 really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
 blowback to WISPA).

 Mark

 On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

 Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

 -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

 I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list
   

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Lewis Bergman]

He didn't tell you it is in his underground coffin.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 6:30 PM  wrote:

> Got a guest room waiting for you.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are
> thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and
> SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to
> let me tour his chop shop.
>
> Jaime Solorza
> On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:
>
>> Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED
>> cavern lights...  :)
>>
>> On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was
>>> born... again...
>>> I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still
>>> remember names.
>>> But I think we have kinda patched things up.
>>> They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my
>>> blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
>>> As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old
>>> and lazy to put on the show.
>>> *From:* Chuck Hogg
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>> Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
>>> listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
>>> time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list,
>>> as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan,
>>> some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola
>>> list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I
>>> notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped
>>> from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was
>>> going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down
>>> the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the
>>> memories :)
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
>>> motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
>>> server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
>>> town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
>>> back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
>>> the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
>>> short time on the WISPA list serv?
>>>
>>> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>>>
>>> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>>
>>> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got
>>> here….
>>>
>>> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to
>>> WISPA.  Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
>>> organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
>>> the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
>>> of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
>>> Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
>>>
>>> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
>>> called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
>>> even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
>>> it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
>>> for the cost of hosting it.
>>>
>>> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
>>> group of people who have known each other for a very long
>>> time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
>>> products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
>>> game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
>>> really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
>>> blowback to WISPA).
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>>
>>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list
>>> about once a year.
>>>
>>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>>>
>>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am
>>> spamming you, right?
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[Jaime Solorza]

Nah.  Just funnin ya

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 6:37 PM,  wrote:

> No way
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:26 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on
> the Trango List
>
> ...someone say Lents ending?
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I remember that and made some comment later about the animal farm
>> attitude or nature of what had happened... Chuck ran with it and AFMUG was
>> born.  Something like that...too many Tecates since then but it's my
>> reality and you all just live in it .. thinking of giving up Lent for Lent
>> tomorrow...
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> is this the one?
>>>
>>> a few messages later i see messages like this -
>>>
>>> *To:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
>>> *Subject:* Part-15 list
>>>
>>> Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce
>>> messages when
>>> I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.
>>>
>>> Here is the message:
>>> Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Bullit
>>> *To:* motor...@part-15.org
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
>>> *Subject:* RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>>
>>> LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend
>>> you
>>> on your steadfast devotion.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
>>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>>> Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
>>> read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.
>>>
>>> So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
>>> community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
>>> next time, LOL!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Bullit
>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
>>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>>> Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>>
>>> Do you all want all the lists to be free?
>>>
>>> If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.
>>>
>>> I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
>>> don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
>>> PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
>>> and I
>>> have no problem with that idea.
>>>
>>> And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
>>> bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
>>> lists.
>>> As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
>>> They
>>> don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
>>> for
>>> free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
>>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>>>
>>> Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Michael Handiboe" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>>>
>>>
>>> > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> >> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard
>>>
>>> >> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
>>> >
>>> >> David Sovreen
>>> >> Dan Peterman
>>> >
>>> > I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ...
>>> > maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
>>> >
>>> > Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
>>> Trango
>>> > chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > ***
>>> > Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
>>> > http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
>>> > ***
>>> > The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
>>> > This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
>>> > All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
>>> > of PART-15.ORG
>>> > ***
>>> > To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
>>> > In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>>> >
>>> ***
>>> Register your services in our FREE WISP 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

Thanks,

I am going to attempt to put something on the signup process warning folks that 
they will be subject to horrible amounts of on-topic spam.  


From: Philip Rankin 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Spam me all you want Chuck. Unbeknownst to you, you have helped me more than 
about anyone throughout the years with your wisdom and products Sir!  I suspect 
the same can be said about almost everyone on this list!  I sincerely 
appreciate your list, your work, products and more so your wisdom throughout 
the years. Spam away Buddy!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

  Awesome!!! 



  Jaime Solorza

  On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:

Got a guest room waiting for you.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are 
thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and 
SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to let me 
tour his chop shop.


Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

  Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED 
cavern lights...  :)

  On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was 
born... again...
I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still 
remember names.
But I think we have kinda patched things up.
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my 
blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old 
and lazy to put on the show.
*From:* Chuck Hogg
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I notified Chuck M of the 
pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and before 
WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M 
converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG 
list was born.  A...the memories :)
Regards,
Chuck
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
 wrote:

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got 
here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   
   Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic 
anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
group of people who have known each other for a very long
time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


Philip,

+1 on that.  He is the main reason we are doing fiber now.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 13, 2018, 8:28:54 PM, you wrote:





Spam me all you want Chuck. Unbeknownst to you, you have helped me more than about anyone throughout the years with your wisdom and products Sir!  I suspect the same can be said about almost everyone on this list!  I sincerely appreciate your list, your work, products and more so your wisdom throughout the years. Spam away Buddy!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:




Awesome!!! 


Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:




Got a guest room waiting for you.  
 
From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
 
Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to let me tour his chop shop.

Jaime Solorza
 
On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:




Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED cavern lights...  :)

On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:




Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... again...
I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember names.
But I think we have kinda patched things up.
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and lazy to put on the show.
*From:* Chuck Hogg
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)
Regards,
Chuck
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

    Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
    motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
    server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
    town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
    back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
    the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
    short time on the WISPA list serv?

    I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

    On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

        You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

        The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.          Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
        organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
        the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
        of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
        Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

        Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
        called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
        even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

        There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
        it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
        for the cost of hosting it.

        This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
        group of people who have known each other for a very long
        time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
        products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
        game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
        really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
        blowback to WISPA).

        Mark

            On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

            Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

            -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
            Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
            To: 

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[chuck]

No way

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the 
Trango List

...someone say Lents ending?

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  I remember that and made some comment later about the animal farm attitude or 
nature of what had happened... Chuck ran with it and AFMUG was born.  Something 
like that...too many Tecates since then but it's my reality and you all just 
live in it .. thinking of giving up Lent for Lent tomorrow...


  Jaime Solorza

  On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:


is this the one?

a few messages later i see messages like this - 

To: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
Subject: Part-15 list


Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages 
when 
I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.

Here is the message:
Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org

---


- Original Message - 
From: Bullit 
To: motor...@part-15.org 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend you
on your steadfast devotion.

Michael

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.

So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
next time, LOL!)



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Bullit
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Do you all want all the lists to be free?

If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.

I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
and I
have no problem with that idea.

And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
lists.
As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
They
don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
for
free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.

Michael



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List

Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Handiboe" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List


> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard

>> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
> 
>> David Sovreen
>> Dan Peterman
> 
> I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ... 
> maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
> 
> Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
Trango 
> chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
> 
> --
> ***
> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
> ***
> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service. 
> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property 
> of PART-15.ORG
> ***
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> In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>
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All 

Re: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

[chuck]

Nice, thanks.

From: David Coudron 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

Ice Fishing house suppliers have lots of this stuff.   This one might be 
lighter than you are looking for, but there are other options out there:

 

http://fishhousesupply.com/fish-house-doors/

 

 

 

David Coudron

david.coud...@advantenon.com |  Mobile: 612-991-7474

 

Advantenon, Inc.   

i...@advantenon.com |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447 |  
www.advantenon.com |  Phone: 800-704-4720 |  Local: 612-454-1545 

 



 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

 

Is underway.  

Conversion to fiber splicing trailer.  Will post photos as we make progress.

I wonder if you can buy an RV door with frame somewhere?

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Philip Rankin]

Spam me all you want Chuck. Unbeknownst to you, you have helped me more
than about anyone throughout the years with your wisdom and products Sir!
I suspect the same can be said about almost everyone on this list!  I
sincerely appreciate your list, your work, products and more so your wisdom
throughout the years. Spam away Buddy!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Awesome!!!
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Got a guest room waiting for you.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>> Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are
>> thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and
>> SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to
>> let me tour his chop shop.
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:
>>
>>> Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED
>>> cavern lights...  :)
>>>
>>> On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
 Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was
 born... again...
 I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still
 remember names.
 But I think we have kinda patched things up.
 They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my
 blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
 As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old
 and lazy to put on the show.
 *From:* Chuck Hogg
 *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
 Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
 listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
 time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list,
 as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan,
 some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola
 list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I
 notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped
 from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was
 going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down
 the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the
 memories :)
 Regards,
 Chuck
 On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup <
 george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

 Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
 motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
 server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
 town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
 back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
 the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
 short time on the WISPA list serv?

 I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

 On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

 You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got
 here….

 The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to
 WISPA.  Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
 organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
 the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
 of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
 Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

 Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
 called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
 even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic
 anyway.

 There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
 it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
 for the cost of hosting it.

 This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
 group of people who have known each other for a very long
 time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
 products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
 game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
 really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
 blowback to WISPA).

 Mark

 On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

 Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


Gino,

Remember that one. Canadians were giving me a hard time because I wouldn't leave the hotel.  Think it was 10 degrees outside.  At that point I hadn't seen temps below 40 for about 15 years.  

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 13, 2018, 6:51:22 PM, you wrote:






I remember the first AF! Back in 2007? Attendance was about 20-30 individuals ?

From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 6:48 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck



 
Gino A. Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... again...
 
I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember names.
 
But I think we have kinda patched things up.  
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
 
As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and lazy to put on the show.  
 
From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
 
Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)
 
Regards,
Chuck
 
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  wrote:




Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:




You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA).

Mark





On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list 

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List


CBB,

That's the one

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 13, 2018, 5:48:13 PM, you wrote:





 
is this the one?
 
a few messages later i see messages like this - 
 
To: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
Subject: Part-15 list

Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages when 
I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.

Here is the message:
Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org

---
 
- Original Message - 
From: Bullit
To: motor...@part-15.org
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend you
on your steadfast devotion.

Michael

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.

So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
next time, LOL!)



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Bullit
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Do you all want all the lists to be free?

If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.

I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
and I
have no problem with that idea.

And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
lists.
As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
They
don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
for
free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.

Michael



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List

Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Handiboe" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List


> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard

>> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
> 
>> David Sovreen
>> Dan Peterman
> 
> I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ... 
> maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
> 
> Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
Trango 
> chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
> 
> --
> ***
> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
> ***
> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service. 
> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property 
> of PART-15.ORG
> ***
> To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
> In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>
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All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property 
of PART-15.ORG
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In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola

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of PART-15.ORG
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In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
Version: 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
wrote:

Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
seems like a nightmare.


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>
>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
>> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>
>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>
>>> You are using this now?
>>>
>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>>
>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>>> 745.html
>>> 20M $7.66
>>> 10M $5.66
>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>>
>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>>
>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>>> 528.html
>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>>
>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>>
>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>>> port.
>>>
>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU
>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>>
>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>>>
>>> Gerard
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
 ONT  $ 215.00
 Unicam  $   15.00
 Cyber Power  $   81.00
 Cyber Install  $ 110.00
 House Sub Total * $ 450.00 *

 OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
 OIM $845/32  $   38.27
 Splitter $900/32  $   39.43
 DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 *


 Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 *


 *From:* 

Re: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

[David Coudron]

Ice Fishing house suppliers have lots of this stuff.   This one might be 
lighter than you are looking for, but there are other options out there:

http://fishhousesupply.com/fish-house-doors/



David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
   
[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  
www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  
Local: 612-454-1545

[cid:image010.jpg@01D3A4FD.16EE6640]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

Is underway.
Conversion to fiber splicing trailer.  Will post photos as we make progress.
I wonder if you can buy an RV door with frame somewhere?

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jaime Solorza]

Awesome!!!

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:

> Got a guest room waiting for you.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are
> thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and
> SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to
> let me tour his chop shop.
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:
>
>> Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED
>> cavern lights...  :)
>>
>> On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was
>>> born... again...
>>> I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still
>>> remember names.
>>> But I think we have kinda patched things up.
>>> They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my
>>> blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
>>> As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old
>>> and lazy to put on the show.
>>> *From:* Chuck Hogg
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>> Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
>>> listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
>>> time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list,
>>> as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan,
>>> some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola
>>> list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I
>>> notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped
>>> from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was
>>> going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down
>>> the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the
>>> memories :)
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
>>> motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
>>> server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
>>> town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
>>> back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
>>> the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
>>> short time on the WISPA list serv?
>>>
>>> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>>>
>>> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>>
>>> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got
>>> here….
>>>
>>> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to
>>> WISPA.  Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
>>> organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
>>> the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
>>> of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
>>> Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
>>>
>>> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
>>> called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
>>> even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
>>> it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
>>> for the cost of hosting it.
>>>
>>> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
>>> group of people who have known each other for a very long
>>> time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
>>> products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
>>> game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
>>> really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
>>> blowback to WISPA).
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>>
>>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list
>>> about once a year.
>>>
>>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>>>
>>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am
>>> spamming you, right?
>>>
>>> I used to do 

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[Jaime Solorza]

Yay. .Tecate has Not fried my brain jet

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:31 PM,  wrote:

> Yeah, it was Jaime that somehow connected our rebellion with George
> Orwell.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:11 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on
> the Trango List
>
> I remember that and made some comment later about the animal farm attitude
> or nature of what had happened... Chuck ran with it and AFMUG was born.
> Something like that...too many Tecates since then but it's my reality and
> you all just live in it .. thinking of giving up Lent for Lent
> tomorrow...
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> is this the one?
>>
>> a few messages later i see messages like this -
>>
>> *To:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
>> *Subject:* Part-15 list
>>
>> Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages
>> when
>> I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.
>>
>> Here is the message:
>> Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org
>>
>> ---
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Bullit
>> *To:* motor...@part-15.org
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend
>> you
>> on your steadfast devotion.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>> Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
>> read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.
>>
>> So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
>> community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
>> next time, LOL!)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bullit
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>> Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> Do you all want all the lists to be free?
>>
>> If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.
>>
>> I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
>> don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
>> PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
>> and I
>> have no problem with that idea.
>>
>> And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
>> bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
>> lists.
>> As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
>> They
>> don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
>> for
>> free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Michael Handiboe" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>>
>>
>> > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> >> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard
>>
>> >> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
>> >
>> >> David Sovreen
>> >> Dan Peterman
>> >
>> > I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ...
>> > maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
>> >
>> > Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
>> Trango
>> > chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
>> >
>> > --
>> > ***
>> > Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
>> > http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
>> > ***
>> > The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
>> > This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
>> > All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
>> > of PART-15.ORG
>> > ***
>> > To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
>> > In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>> >
>> ***
>> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
>> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
>> ***
>> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
>> This is a Paid 

Re: [AFMUG] New RO unit for Fabens , Texas

[Jaime Solorza]

Ha

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:37 PM, "Mitch Koep"  wrote:

> Fails
>
> Too nice for government work lol
>
> looks great
>
>
> On 2/13/2018 3:55 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
>> Check out this wiring job.  Not done by us ...we will be landing some
>> equipment into this panel.  But work is clean.
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New RO unit for Fabens , Texas

[Mitch Koep]

Fails

Too nice for government work lol

looks great


On 2/13/2018 3:55 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
Check out this wiring job.  Not done by us ...we will be landing some 
equipment into this panel.  But work is clean.


Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[chuck]

Yeah, it was Jaime that somehow connected our rebellion with George Orwell.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:11 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the 
Trango List

I remember that and made some comment later about the animal farm attitude or 
nature of what had happened... Chuck ran with it and AFMUG was born.  Something 
like that...too many Tecates since then but it's my reality and you all just 
live in it .. thinking of giving up Lent for Lent tomorrow...


Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:


  is this the one?

  a few messages later i see messages like this - 

  To: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
  Subject: Part-15 list


  Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages 
when 
  I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.

  Here is the message:
  Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org

  ---


  - Original Message - 
  From: Bullit 
  To: motor...@part-15.org 
  Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
  Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

  LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend you
  on your steadfast devotion.

  Michael

  -Original Message-
  From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
  Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
  Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
  To: motor...@part-15.org
  Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

  Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
  read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.

  So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
  community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
  next time, LOL!)



  -Original Message-
  From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
  Behalf Of Bullit
  Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
  To: motor...@part-15.org
  Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

  Do you all want all the lists to be free?

  If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.

  I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
  don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
  PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
  and I
  have no problem with that idea.

  And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
  bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
  lists.
  As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
  They
  don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
  for
  free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.

  Michael



  -Original Message-
  From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
  Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
  To: motor...@part-15.org
  Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List

  Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
  - Original Message - 
  From: "Michael Handiboe" 
  To: 
  Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List


  > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
  >> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard

  >> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
  > 
  >> David Sovreen
  >> Dan Peterman
  > 
  > I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ... 
  > maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
  > 
  > Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
  Trango 
  > chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
  > 
  > --
  > ***
  > Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
  > http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
  > ***
  > The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
  > This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service. 
  > All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property 
  > of PART-15.ORG
  > ***
  > To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
  > In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
  >
  ***
  Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
  http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
  ***
  The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
  This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service. 
  All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property 
  of PART-15.ORG
  ***
  To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
  In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola

  

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

Got a guest room waiting for you.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are thinking 
of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and SCADA 
projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to let me tour 
his chop shop.


Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

  Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED 
cavern lights...  :)

  On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... 
again...
I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember 
names.
But I think we have kinda patched things up.
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings 
and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and 
lazy to put on the show.
*From:* Chuck Hogg
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I notified Chuck M of the 
pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and before 
WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M 
converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG 
list was born.  A...the memories :)
Regards,
Chuck
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  
wrote:

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   
   Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
group of people who have known each other for a very long
time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
blowback to WISPA).

Mark

On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list
about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am
spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent
it 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

Don’t ask, don’t tell...

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

" Yes - it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the 
cost of hosting it." 


Hows that stand right now BTW? are the coffers still overflowing?

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

  You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

  The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t recall 
the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael was 
mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

  Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at 
the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - 
not that it was ever on topic anyway.

  There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it.

  This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of 
people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t 
say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody 
else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t 
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to 
WISPA).

  Mark

  > On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
  >
  > Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
  >
  > -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
  >
  > I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.
  >
  > You do realize that this list is my list, right?
  >
  > So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
  >
  > I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.

  > But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
  >
  > Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
  > happening again.
  >
  > -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
  > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
  >
  > I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
  >
  > I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
  > business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
  > poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
  >
  > Jared
  >

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[Steve Jones]

...someone say Lents ending?

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I remember that and made some comment later about the animal farm attitude
> or nature of what had happened... Chuck ran with it and AFMUG was born.
> Something like that...too many Tecates since then but it's my reality and
> you all just live in it .. thinking of giving up Lent for Lent
> tomorrow...
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> is this the one?
>>
>> a few messages later i see messages like this -
>>
>> *To:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
>> *Subject:* Part-15 list
>>
>> Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages
>> when
>> I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.
>>
>> Here is the message:
>> Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org
>>
>> ---
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Bullit 
>> *To:* motor...@part-15.org
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend
>> you
>> on your steadfast devotion.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>> Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
>> read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.
>>
>> So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
>> community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
>> next time, LOL!)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bullit
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>> Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> Do you all want all the lists to be free?
>>
>> If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.
>>
>> I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
>> don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
>> PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
>> and I
>> have no problem with that idea.
>>
>> And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
>> bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
>> lists.
>> As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
>> They
>> don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
>> for
>> free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
>> To: motor...@part-15.org
>> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>>
>> Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Michael Handiboe" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>>
>>
>> > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> >> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard
>>
>> >> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
>> >
>> >> David Sovreen
>> >> Dan Peterman
>> >
>> > I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ...
>> > maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
>> >
>> > Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
>> Trango
>> > chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
>> >
>> > --
>> > ***
>> > Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
>> > http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
>> > ***
>> > The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
>> > This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
>> > All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
>> > of PART-15.ORG
>> > ***
>> > To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
>> > In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>> >
>> ***
>> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
>> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
>> ***
>> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
>> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
>> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
>> of PART-15.ORG
>> ***
>> To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
>> In the 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Steve Jones]

the odd thing, im the administrator



URL Blocked by FortiClient
img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/emotional-support-bar-cart.jpg
is in the category
Adult/Mature Content:Other Adult Materials
Your FortiClient administrator has blocked this category


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:10 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/
> 02/emotional-support-bar-cart.jpg
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:52:08 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists *nor done any
> business with him*, or even indicate I would like to.   TF you just
> say?!!?
>
> I remember that KPP thing and chucks analogy, I though somebody had
> actually tried to bed down his daughter.
>
>
> I guess I have notice more mccown tech emails, come to think of it I never
> did sign up for them either. Im pretty sure this has cause pain and
> suffering, Im going to need an emotional support peacock
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Then there was the time Doug Clark got mad at me and got Travis to start
>> another list.  I think it had something to do with KPP crashing
>> AnimalFarm.
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:49 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> actually i distinctly remember a "MOTORLA" and "MOTOROLA II" list... LOL
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:38 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>> Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
>> listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
>> time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list,
>> as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan,
>> some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola
>> list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I
>> notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped
>> from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was
>> going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down
>> the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the
>> memories :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@
>>> list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down
>>> and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if
>>> that was the case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and
>>> AFMUG was born. More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I
>>> believe that was hosted for a short time on the WISPA list serv?
>>>
>>> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>>>
>>> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>>
 You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

 The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t
 recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day
 Michael was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email -
 and that was pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think
 that was during a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

 Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG
 at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola
 specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

 There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s
 Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of
 hosting it.

 This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group
 of people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably
 shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky)
 but everybody else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Jaime Solorza]

Chinese?  I thought it was group in Slovenia

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:13 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> Ebay is dumping paypal as their primary, so I think paypal will be pimping
> to all the vendors. I prefer paypal, easy to choose what account Im using,
> I can change banks and not have to deal with anything with vendors form of
> payment
>
> plus the chinese have a one stop shop to steal all my riches
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> Figured it out...   Needed to order the S unit with a switchable input
>> voltage not the plain unit that wants 200-240VAC...   Yep sometimes I am
>> just that dumb...
>>
>> Good news is that Jameco now accepts paypal and somehow they are shipping
>> to me faster than Amazon!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> On 02/13/2018 11:49 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>
>>> Have you checked your input wiring? No bad landings?
>>> Is this an adjustable unit on output side? Not ever worked with meanwell
>>> so forgive questions...
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2018 12:23 PM, "Robert Andrews" >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different
>>> vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there
>>> and pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16
>>> loaded with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So
>>> I am telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and
>>> it's probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?
>>>  Need a battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is
>>> really two of them that are both bad?input is connected to line
>>> correctly, verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline
>>> volt/current meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the
>>> output...
>>>
>>> I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out
>>> before they say back to me "Stupid American"
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jaime Solorza]

Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are
thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and
SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to
let me tour his chop shop.

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

> Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED
> cavern lights...  :)
>
> On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
>> Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was
>> born... again...
>> I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still
>> remember names.
>> But I think we have kinda patched things up.
>> They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my
>> blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
>> As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old
>> and lazy to put on the show.
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
>> listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
>> time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list,
>> as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan,
>> some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola
>> list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I
>> notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped
>> from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was
>> going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down
>> the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the
>> memories :)
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
>> motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
>> server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
>> town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
>> back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
>> the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
>> short time on the WISPA list serv?
>>
>> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>>
>> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>
>> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got
>> here….
>>
>> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.
>>   Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
>> organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
>> the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
>> of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
>> Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
>>
>> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
>> called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
>> even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic
>> anyway.
>>
>> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
>> it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
>> for the cost of hosting it.
>>
>> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
>> group of people who have known each other for a very long
>> time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
>> products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
>> game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
>> really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
>> blowback to WISPA).
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
>>
>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list
>> about once a year.
>>
>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>>
>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am
>> spamming you, right?
>>
>> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
>>
>> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent
>> it from ever
>> happening again.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, 

Re: [AFMUG] ........Fw: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List -TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability

[Jaime Solorza]

Was it liberating to quit!!!

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 3:51 PM,  wrote:

> Well... I QUIT!
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:44 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fw: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango
> List -TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Bullit
> *To:* motor...@part-15.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 5, 2008 11:52 AM
> *Subject:* [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List - TrangoLink 45
> throughput, reliability
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Can we try a bit harder to keep the separate lists separate?
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
> -Original Message-
> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
> Behalf Of Paul McCall
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:52 AM
> To: motor...@part-15.org
> Subject: RE: [Motorola] TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability
>
> Yes, I mean the Canopy 400 NOT the PTP.  So, I can get away with 2 APs and
> 8
> SMs and 20 Mhz total frequency used.
>
> Yeah, the part I am not certain with is on my own tower, with the close
> proximity.  The customer towers only use 5.2. and 2.4
>
> Paul
>
> -Original Message-
> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
> Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 10:47 AM
> To: motor...@part-15.org
> Subject: Re: [Motorola] TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability
>
> > FYI, I also have fiber to a tower less than a mile away, and the 8 towers
> > will also connect to it with a link for backup.  Was actually planning on
> > using the Canopy 400 PTMP for that as two sectors covers all 8 towers and
> > again, that would only be used as a backup.  So, I would have to be
> > careful
> > granted in frequency selection.
>
> You do mean Canopy 400, not PTP400, right?  So the Canopy 400 will be 5.4?
>
> I have Trango ATLAS backhauls coexisting with PTP400 OK, same tower same
> height, maybe 10 ft horizontal separation, pointed maybe 120 degrees from
> each other.
>
> The biggest problem has been ATLAS backhaul interfering into APs on the
> same
>
> tower, on the same frequency, with 100+ feet of vertical separation.  I
> would really avoid using the same frequency on the same tower for anything
> without sync.  You might get away with it if you use a high performance
> dish.
>
> I think your biggest chance of problems is with panel antennas because
> they
> will have significant sidelobes.  The least chance will be with shrouded
> dishes, or if you are lucky enough to be able to use existing horn
> antennas
> left behind by a telco.
>
> ***
> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
> ***
> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
> of PART-15.ORG
> ***
> To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
> In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>
>
> ***
> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
> ***
> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
> of PART-15.ORG
> ***
> To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
> In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>
> ***
> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
> ***
> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
> of PART-15.ORG
> ***
> To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
> In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Steve Jones]

Ebay is dumping paypal as their primary, so I think paypal will be pimping
to all the vendors. I prefer paypal, easy to choose what account Im using,
I can change banks and not have to deal with anything with vendors form of
payment

plus the chinese have a one stop shop to steal all my riches

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Figured it out...   Needed to order the S unit with a switchable input
> voltage not the plain unit that wants 200-240VAC...   Yep sometimes I am
> just that dumb...
>
> Good news is that Jameco now accepts paypal and somehow they are shipping
> to me faster than Amazon!
>
> Robert
>
> On 02/13/2018 11:49 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
>> Have you checked your input wiring? No bad landings?
>> Is this an adjustable unit on output side? Not ever worked with meanwell
>> so forgive questions...
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018 12:23 PM, "Robert Andrews" > > wrote:
>>
>> So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different
>> vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there
>> and pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16
>> loaded with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So
>> I am telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and
>> it's probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?
>>  Need a battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is
>> really two of them that are both bad?input is connected to line
>> correctly, verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline
>> volt/current meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the
>> output...
>>
>> I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out
>> before they say back to me "Stupid American"
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[Jaime Solorza]

I remember that and made some comment later about the animal farm attitude
or nature of what had happened... Chuck ran with it and AFMUG was born.
Something like that...too many Tecates since then but it's my reality and
you all just live in it .. thinking of giving up Lent for Lent
tomorrow...

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 3:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> is this the one?
>
> a few messages later i see messages like this -
>
> *To:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
> *Subject:* Part-15 list
>
> Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages
> when
> I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.
>
> Here is the message:
> Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org
>
> ---
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Bullit 
> *To:* motor...@part-15.org
> *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
> *Subject:* RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>
> LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend you
> on your steadfast devotion.
>
> Michael
>
> -Original Message-
> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
> Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
> To: motor...@part-15.org
> Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>
> Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
> read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.
>
> So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
> community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
> next time, LOL!)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
> Behalf Of Bullit
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
> To: motor...@part-15.org
> Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List
>
> Do you all want all the lists to be free?
>
> If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.
>
> I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
> don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
> PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
> and I
> have no problem with that idea.
>
> And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
> bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
> lists.
> As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
> They
> don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
> for
> free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
> To: motor...@part-15.org
> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>
> Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Michael Handiboe" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List
>
>
> > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
> >> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard
>
> >> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
> >
> >> David Sovreen
> >> Dan Peterman
> >
> > I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ...
> > maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
> >
> > Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
> Trango
> > chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
> >
> > --
> > ***
> > Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
> > http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
> > ***
> > The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
> > This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
> > All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
> > of PART-15.ORG
> > ***
> > To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
> > In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
> >
> ***
> Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
> ***
> The PART-15.ORG Motorola Discussion List
> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property
> of PART-15.ORG
> ***
> To unsubscribe from the list: Send an email to: imail...@part-15.org
> In the Body: Unsubscribe Motorola
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mike Hammett]

http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/emotional-support-bar-cart.jpg
 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:52:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 


I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him , or even indicate I would like to. TF you just say?!!? 



I remember that KPP thing and chucks analogy, I though somebody had actually 
tried to bed down his daughter. 




I guess I have notice more mccown tech emails, come to think of it I never did 
sign up for them either. Im pretty sure this has cause pain and suffering, Im 
going to need an emotional support peacock 


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Then there was the time Doug Clark got mad at me and got Travis to start 
another list. I think it had something to do with KPP crashing AnimalFarm. 




From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:49 PM 


To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 






actually i distinctly remember a "MOTORLA" and "MOTOROLA II" list... LOL 



- Original Message - 
From: Chuck Hogg 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 

Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs. Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, and 
his list was moved over. I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a vendor 
at the time for WISPA. That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other distributors 
got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't Chuck M's, and 
the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I notified Chuck M of the pending issues 
and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and before WISPA could 
notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it 
to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was 
born. A...the memories :) 



Regards, 
Chuck 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ list. 
IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he said 
it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the case) 
and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More 
accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for 
a short time on the WISPA list serv? 

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great. 

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote: 


You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here…. 

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA. Can’t recall the 
last name - Michael somebody ran the organization. One day Michael was mad 
about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty 
much the end of Part 15 and the list. I actually think that was during a Animal 
Farm session if I recall correctly. 

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at the 
time, but it later became that. Might have even been Motorola specific - not 
that it was ever on topic anyway. 

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on. Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it. 

This list has it’s advantages. It’s membership leans toward a group of people 
who have known each other for a very long time. You probably shouldn’t say bad 
things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if 
fair game. I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say 
with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA). 

Mark 



On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too... 

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year. 

You do realize that this list is my list, right? 

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right? 

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list. 
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp. 

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp? That will prevent it from ever 
happening again. 

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that? 

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Robert Andrews]

Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED 
cavern lights...  :)


On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was 
born... again...
I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still 
remember names.

But I think we have kinda patched things up.
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my 
blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old 
and lazy to put on the show.

*From:* Chuck Hogg
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the 
time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, 
as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, 
some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the 
motorola list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine 
anymore. I notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was 
getting ripped from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M 
that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the 
AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was 
born.  A...the memories :)

Regards,
Chuck
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
 wrote:


Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.  
Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the

organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
group of people who have known each other for a very long
time.   You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg
products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair
game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without
blowback to WISPA).

Mark

On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list
about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am
spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent
it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists
nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find
it in extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Steve Jones]

" Yes - it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for
the cost of hosting it."

Hows that stand right now BTW? are the coffers still overflowing?

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….
>
> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t
> recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day
> Michael was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email -
> and that was pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think
> that was during a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
>
> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at
> the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola
> specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.
>
> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s
> Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of
> hosting it.
>
> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of
> people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably
> shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky)
> but everybody else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say
> things I can’t really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say
> without blowback to WISPA).
>
> Mark
>
> > On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> >
> > Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
> >
> > -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> >
> > I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a
> year.
> >
> > You do realize that this list is my list, right?
> >
> > So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
> >
> > I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
> > But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
> >
> > Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
> > happening again.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> >
> > I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
> >
> > I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
> > business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in
> extremely
> > poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
> >
> > Jared
> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

snowflake...

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him, or even indicate I would like to.   TF you just say?!!?


I remember that KPP thing and chucks analogy, I though somebody had actually 
tried to bed down his daughter.


I guess I have notice more mccown tech emails, come to think of it I never did 
sign up for them either. Im pretty sure this has cause pain and suffering, Im 
going to need an emotional support peacock

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM,  wrote:

  Then there was the time Doug Clark got mad at me and got Travis to start 
another list.  I think it had something to do with KPP crashing AnimalFarm.  

  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:49 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck



  actually i distinctly remember a "MOTORLA" and "MOTOROLA II" list... LOL

- Original Message - 
From: Chuck Hogg 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of 
the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and 
before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, 
Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and 
the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)

Regards,
Chuck

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  
wrote:

  Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he 
said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the 
case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. 
More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted 
for a short time on the WISPA list serv?

  I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

  On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t 
recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael 
was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG 
at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific 
- not that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s 
Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of 
hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group 
of people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably 
shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but 
everybody else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I 
can’t really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback 
to WISPA).

Mark


  On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

  -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a 
year.

  You do realize that this list is my list, right?

  So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?

  I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

  Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from 
ever
  happening again.

  -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

  I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done 
any
  business with him, or even 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

40-45
Somewhere I still have photos of everyone.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I remember the first AF! Back in 2007? Attendance was about 20-30 individuals ?

From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 6:48 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck





  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 




Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... 
again...

I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember 
names.

But I think we have kinda patched things up.  
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings and 
I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.

As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and 
lazy to put on the show.  

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of 
the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and 
before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, 
Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and 
the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)

Regards,
Chuck

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he 
said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the 
case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. 
More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted 
for a short time on the WISPA list serv?

  I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

  On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t 
recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael 
was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at 
the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - 
not that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s 
Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of 
hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of 
people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t 
say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody 
else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t 
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to 
WISPA).

Mark


  On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

  -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

  You do realize that this list is my list, right?

  So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

  I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

  Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
  happening again.

  -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

  I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
  business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely
  poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

  Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Steve Jones]

 I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists *nor done any
business with him*, or even indicate I would like to.   TF you just say?!!?

I remember that KPP thing and chucks analogy, I though somebody had
actually tried to bed down his daughter.


I guess I have notice more mccown tech emails, come to think of it I never
did sign up for them either. Im pretty sure this has cause pain and
suffering, Im going to need an emotional support peacock

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM,  wrote:

> Then there was the time Doug Clark got mad at me and got Travis to start
> another list.  I think it had something to do with KPP crashing
> AnimalFarm.
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:49 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
>
>
> actually i distinctly remember a "MOTORLA" and "MOTOROLA II" list... LOL
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Chuck Hogg
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
> listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
> time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as
> I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some
> other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list
> wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified
> Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under
> me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be
> taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the
> motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@
>> list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down
>> and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if
>> that was the case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and
>> AFMUG was born. More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I
>> believe that was hosted for a short time on the WISPA list serv?
>>
>> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>>
>> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>
>>> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….
>>>
>>> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t
>>> recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day
>>> Michael was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email -
>>> and that was pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think
>>> that was during a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
>>>
>>> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG
>>> at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola
>>> specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.
>>>
>>> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s
>>> Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of
>>> hosting it.
>>>
>>> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of
>>> people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably
>>> shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky)
>>> but everybody else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say
>>> things I can’t really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say
>>> without blowback to WISPA).
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

 Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

 -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

 I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a
 year.

 You do realize that this list is my list, right?

 So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you,
 right?

 I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
 But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

 Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
 happening again.

 -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

 I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

 I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
 business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in
 extremely
 poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

 Jared


>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Gino A. Villarini]

I remember the first AF! Back in 2007? Attendance was about 20-30 individuals ?

From: Af > on behalf of Chuck 
McCown >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 6:48 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck




Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... 
again...

I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember 
names.

But I think we have kinda patched things up.
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings and 
I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.

As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and 
lazy to put on the show.

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of 
the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and 
before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, 
Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and 
the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)

Regards,
Chuck

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ list. 
IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he said 
it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the case) 
and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More 
accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for 
a short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t recall 
the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael was 
mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at the 
time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - not 
that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of people 
who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t say 
bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else 
if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say 
with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA).

Mark

On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

Or maybe Travis got mad at me and got Doug to start another list...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Then there was the time Doug Clark got mad at me and got Travis to start 
another list.  I think it had something to do with KPP crashing AnimalFarm.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck



actually i distinctly remember a "MOTORLA" and "MOTOROLA II" list... LOL

  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck Hogg 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of 
the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and 
before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, 
Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and 
the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  
wrote:

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he 
said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the 
case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. 
More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted 
for a short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

  The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t 
recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael 
was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

  Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG 
at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific 
- not that it was ever on topic anyway.

  There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s 
Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of 
hosting it.

  This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of 
people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t 
say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody 
else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t 
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to 
WISPA).

  Mark


On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a 
year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

Then there was the time Doug Clark got mad at me and got Travis to start 
another list.  I think it had something to do with KPP crashing AnimalFarm.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck



actually i distinctly remember a "MOTORLA" and "MOTOROLA II" list... LOL

  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck Hogg 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of 
the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and 
before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, 
Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and 
the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  
wrote:

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he 
said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the 
case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. 
More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted 
for a short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

  The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t 
recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael 
was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

  Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG 
at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific 
- not that it was ever on topic anyway.

  There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s 
Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of 
hosting it.

  This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of 
people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t 
say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody 
else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t 
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to 
WISPA).

  Mark


On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a 
year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on theTrango List

[chuck]

Yeah, timing could not have been more perfectly bad for poor old Michael.  We 
really thought he quit, as in he pulled the plug.
So we fired up a list so we could hang out.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on theTrango 
List


is this the one?

a few messages later i see messages like this - 

To: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
Subject: Part-15 list


Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages when 
I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.

Here is the message:
Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org

---


- Original Message - 
From: Bullit 
To: motor...@part-15.org 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend you
on your steadfast devotion.

Michael

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.

So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
next time, LOL!)



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Bullit
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Do you all want all the lists to be free?

If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.

I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
and I
have no problem with that idea.

And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
lists.
As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
They
don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
for
free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.

Michael



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List

Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Handiboe" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List


> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard

>> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
> 
>> David Sovreen
>> Dan Peterman
> 
> I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ... 
> maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
> 
> Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
Trango 
> chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
> 
> --
> ***
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> http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
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> This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service. 
> All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole property 
> of PART-15.ORG
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>
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No virus found in this incoming message.

Re: [AFMUG] ........Fw: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List -TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability

[chuck]

Well... I QUIT!

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List 
-TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability


- Original Message - 
From: Bullit 
To: motor...@part-15.org 
Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List - TrangoLink 45 
throughput, reliability


Hi all

Can we try a bit harder to keep the separate lists separate?

Thanks
Michael

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:52 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: RE: [Motorola] TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability

Yes, I mean the Canopy 400 NOT the PTP.  So, I can get away with 2 APs and 8
SMs and 20 Mhz total frequency used.

Yeah, the part I am not certain with is on my own tower, with the close
proximity.  The customer towers only use 5.2. and 2.4

Paul

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 10:47 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: Re: [Motorola] TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability

> FYI, I also have fiber to a tower less than a mile away, and the 8 towers
> will also connect to it with a link for backup.  Was actually planning on
> using the Canopy 400 PTMP for that as two sectors covers all 8 towers and
> again, that would only be used as a backup.  So, I would have to be 
> careful
> granted in frequency selection.

You do mean Canopy 400, not PTP400, right?  So the Canopy 400 will be 5.4?

I have Trango ATLAS backhauls coexisting with PTP400 OK, same tower same 
height, maybe 10 ft horizontal separation, pointed maybe 120 degrees from 
each other.

The biggest problem has been ATLAS backhaul interfering into APs on the same

tower, on the same frequency, with 100+ feet of vertical separation.  I 
would really avoid using the same frequency on the same tower for anything 
without sync.  You might get away with it if you use a high performance 
dish.

I think your biggest chance of problems is with panel antennas because they 
will have significant sidelobes.  The least chance will be with shrouded 
dishes, or if you are lucky enough to be able to use existing horn antennas 
left behind by a telco. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

actually i distinctly remember a "MOTORLA" and "MOTOROLA II" list... LOL

  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck Hogg 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


  Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of 
the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and 
before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, 
Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and 
the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)


  Regards,
  Chuck


  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  
wrote:

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he 
said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the 
case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. 
More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted 
for a short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

  The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t 
recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael 
was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

  Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG 
at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific 
- not that it was ever on topic anyway.

  There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s 
Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of 
hosting it.

  This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of 
people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t 
say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody 
else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t 
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to 
WISPA).

  Mark


On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a 
year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... 
again...

I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember 
names.

But I think we have kinda patched things up.  
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings and 
I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.

As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and 
lazy to put on the show.  

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified Chuck M of 
the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and 
before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, 
Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and 
the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)

Regards,
Chuck

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down and he 
said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if that was the 
case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. 
More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted 
for a short time on the WISPA list serv?

  I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

  On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t 
recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael 
was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at 
the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - 
not that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s 
Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of 
hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of 
people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t 
say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody 
else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t 
really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to 
WISPA).

Mark


  On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

  -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

  You do realize that this list is my list, right?

  So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

  I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

  Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
  happening again.

  -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

  I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
  business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely
  poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

  Jared

[AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

is this the one?

a few messages later i see messages like this - 

To: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 2:55 PM
Subject: Part-15 list


Are you having problems posting to the list?  I'm getting bounce messages when 
I try, and it even bounced when I tried to email bullit directly.

Here is the message:
Invalid final delivery userid: motor...@part-15.org

---


- Original Message - 
From: Bullit 
To: motor...@part-15.org 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List


LOL, you really hate the list traffic compared to a forum. I'll commend you
on your steadfast devotion.

Michael

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:18 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: RE: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Maybe I'm not the only one, but when a thread like this starts up I just
read a couple of words to get the gist and then dump it.

So you all do whatever it is you think is necessary, but the
community/list will live on in whatever form (hopefully a forum mode
next time, LOL!)



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Bullit
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:30 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on the Trango List

Do you all want all the lists to be free?

If so, I'll close up PART-15.ORG and you all can do whatever you want.

I'm sick of all this B.S. If you don't want to support PART-15.ORG then
don't and GO AWAY. Start your own damn lists somewhere else because
PART-15.ORG will just fade away which appears to be what you guys want
and I
have no problem with that idea.

And you know what Chuck, if people like Charles Wu would ever pay his
bills/debts that he owes PART-15.ORG maybe he could get back on the
lists.
As far as the others go, the hell with them as far as I'm concerned.
They
don't want to support PART-15.ORG so why the hell should I let them in
for
free? B.S. I'm fed up folks.

Michael



-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:16 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List

Trango is still a free list.  No so moto.
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Handiboe" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List


> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> I can think of more than 5 that are no longer here.  I have not heard

>> from any of these guys since the list went paid (I don't think):
> 
>> David Sovreen
>> Dan Peterman
> 
> I thought I saw these guys  ... Peterman just the other day (?) ... 
> maybe that was on the Mikrotik list.   I miss the rest of them.
> 
> Funny thing, though, in my Thunderbird (email client ...) all the
Trango 
> chat ended up in my Trango folder anyway!  :-P
> 
> --
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No virus found in this incoming message.
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This is a 

[AFMUG] ........Fw: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List - TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

- Original Message - 
From: Bullit 
To: motor...@part-15.org 
Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: [Motorola] This should be on the Trango List - TrangoLink 45 
throughput, reliability



Hi all

Can we try a bit harder to keep the separate lists separate?

Thanks
Michael

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:52 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: RE: [Motorola] TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability

Yes, I mean the Canopy 400 NOT the PTP.  So, I can get away with 2 APs and 8
SMs and 20 Mhz total frequency used.

Yeah, the part I am not certain with is on my own tower, with the close
proximity.  The customer towers only use 5.2. and 2.4

Paul

-Original Message-
From: motorola-ow...@part-15.org [mailto:motorola-ow...@part-15.org] On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 10:47 AM
To: motor...@part-15.org
Subject: Re: [Motorola] TrangoLink 45 throughput, reliability

> FYI, I also have fiber to a tower less than a mile away, and the 8 towers
> will also connect to it with a link for backup.  Was actually planning on
> using the Canopy 400 PTMP for that as two sectors covers all 8 towers and
> again, that would only be used as a backup.  So, I would have to be 
> careful
> granted in frequency selection.

You do mean Canopy 400, not PTP400, right?  So the Canopy 400 will be 5.4?

I have Trango ATLAS backhauls coexisting with PTP400 OK, same tower same 
height, maybe 10 ft horizontal separation, pointed maybe 120 degrees from 
each other.

The biggest problem has been ATLAS backhaul interfering into APs on the same

tower, on the same frequency, with 100+ feet of vertical separation.  I 
would really avoid using the same frequency on the same tower for anything 
without sync.  You might get away with it if you use a high performance 
dish.

I think your biggest chance of problems is with panel antennas because they 
will have significant sidelobes.  The least chance will be with shrouded 
dishes, or if you are lucky enough to be able to use existing horn antennas 
left behind by a telco. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Chuck Hogg]

Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I
was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some
other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list
wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore.  I notified
Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under
me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be
taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the
motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)

Regards,
Chuck

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@
> list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down
> and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if
> that was the case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late and
> AFMUG was born. More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, and I
> believe that was hosted for a short time on the WISPA list serv?
>
> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>
> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
>> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….
>>
>> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t
>> recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day
>> Michael was mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email -
>> and that was pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think
>> that was during a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
>>
>> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG
>> at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola
>> specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.
>>
>> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s
>> Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of
>> hosting it.
>>
>> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of
>> people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably
>> shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky)
>> but everybody else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say
>> things I can’t really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say
>> without blowback to WISPA).
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>>
>>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a
>>> year.
>>>
>>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>>>
>>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>>>
>>> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>>> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
>>>
>>> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
>>> happening again.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>>
>>> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
>>>
>>> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
>>> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in
>>> extremely
>>> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
>>>
>>> Jared
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Prolly some extortion material in there somewhere...  :-)

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Feb 13, 2018, at 5:29 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
> wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> 
> That  brings  back  memories. July 7, 2008.  I still have over 100,000
> archived messages from that list.
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.MyakkaTech.com
> 
> --
> 
> Tuesday, February 13, 2018, 5:06:02 PM, you wrote:
> 
> MR> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….
> 
> MR> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.  
> MR> Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
> MR> organization.   One day Michael was mad about something and posted
> MR> the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end of
> MR> Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a Animal
> MR> Farm session if I recall correctly.
> 
> MR> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called
> MR> AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even
> MR> been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.
> 
> MR> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
> MR> it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the 
> cost of hosting it.
> 
> MR> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
> MR> group of people who have known each other for a very long time.  
> MR> You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes
> MR> Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair game.  I like it
> MR> since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say with a
> MR> WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA).
> 
> MR> Mark
> 
>>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>> 
>>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.
>>> 
>>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>>> 
>>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>>> 
>>> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>>> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
>>> 
>>> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
>>> happening again.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>> 
>>> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
>>> 
>>> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
>>> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
>>> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
>>> 
>>> Jared
>>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Mark,

That  brings  back  memories. July 7, 2008.  I still have over 100,000
archived messages from that list.

-- 
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 13, 2018, 5:06:02 PM, you wrote:

MR> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

MR> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.  
MR> Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
MR> organization.   One day Michael was mad about something and posted
MR> the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end of
MR> Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a Animal
MR> Farm session if I recall correctly.

MR> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called
MR> AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have even
MR> been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

MR> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
MR> it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost 
of hosting it.

MR> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
MR> group of people who have known each other for a very long time.  
MR> You probably shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes
MR> Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if fair game.  I like it
MR> since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say with a
MR> WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA).

MR> Mark

>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> 
>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.
>> 
>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>> 
>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>> 
>> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
>> 
>> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
>> happening again.
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> 
>> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
>> 
>> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
>> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
>> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
>> 
>> Jared
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

This list would be dead without those O-beer-thirty bits o’ poetry.


From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


with special commentator "That one guy steve..."


  - Original Message - 
  From: TJ Trout 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I enjoy the email check sends, it's always entertaining. 

  Sounds like you should just unsubscribe and head off to the UBNT forums!

  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
wrote:

Why, thank you Jay!


Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:03 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:



  i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly part of 
being a WISPA member.
  i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a whole lot.

  I can mention several things I have really appreciated getting from "spam"

  * Baicells Black Friday Deal
  * Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
  *  Chuck Mccown's product announcements

  I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.

  I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff
- Original Message - 
From: fiber...@mail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
  No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the 
list. 

> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?
  Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me 
directly with a canned message. 

> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out 
unsolicited commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best 
practices include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in

  In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, 
unbeknownst to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email 
list. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[George Skorup]

.../sarcasm

On 2/13/2018 4:21 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

with special commentator "That one guy steve..."

- Original Message -
*From:* TJ Trout 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:06 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I enjoy the email check sends, it's always entertaining.

Sounds like you should just unsubscribe and head off to the UBNT
forums!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> wrote:

Why, thank you Jay!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519  Office
574-220-7826  Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:03 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>
wrote:


i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly
part of being a WISPA member.
i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a
whole lot.
I can mention several things I have really appreciated
getting from "spam"
* Baicells Black Friday Deal
* Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
*  Chuck Mccown's product announcements
I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.
I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff

- Original Message -
*From:* fiber...@mail.com 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
  No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you
sign up for the list.

> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming 
you, right?
  Participating on the list isn't quite the same as
inboxing me directly with a canned message.

> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to
send out unsolicited commercial messages without an
opt-in. Furthermore industry best practices include using
a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in:
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in


  In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list
I would, unbeknownst to me and surreptitiously, be signed
up for another direct email list.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[George Skorup]

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the motorola@ 
list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list server went down 
and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of town? I don't remember if 
that was the case) and finally brought it back up. But it was too late 
and AFMUG was born. More accurately, the "Motorola II" list was born, 
and I believe that was hosted for a short time on the WISPA list serv?


I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t recall 
the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael was 
mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at the 
time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - not 
that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of people 
who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t say 
bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else 
if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say 
with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA).

Mark


On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

with special commentator "That one guy steve..."


  - Original Message - 
  From: TJ Trout 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


  I enjoy the email check sends, it's always entertaining.


  Sounds like you should just unsubscribe and head off to the UBNT forums!


  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
wrote:

Why, thank you Jay!


Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:03 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:



  i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly part of 
being a WISPA member.
  i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a whole lot.

  I can mention several things I have really appreciated getting from "spam"

  * Baicells Black Friday Deal
  * Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
  *  Chuck Mccown's product announcements

  I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.

  I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff
- Original Message - 
From: fiber...@mail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
  No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the 
list. 

> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?
  Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me 
directly with a canned message. 

> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out 
unsolicited commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best 
practices include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in

  In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, 
unbeknownst to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email 
list. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

:)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


  Why, thank you Jay!


  Jeff Broadwick
  CTIconnect

  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

  On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:03 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:



i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly part of being 
a WISPA member.
i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a whole lot.

I can mention several things I have really appreciated getting from "spam"

* Baicells Black Friday Deal
* Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
*  Chuck Mccown's product announcements

I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.

I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff
  - Original Message - 
  From: fiber...@mail.com 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


  > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
  > From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
  >
  > You do realize that this list is my list, right?
No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the 
list. 

  > So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?
Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me directly 
with a canned message. 

  > I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out 
unsolicited commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best 
practices include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in

In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, 
unbeknownst to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email 
list. 

  Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Mike “Bullit” Anderson.  He’s out in CA somewhere now.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Feb 13, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> 
> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….
> 
> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t recall 
> the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael was 
> mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
> pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was 
> during a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
> 
> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at 
> the time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific 
> - not that it was ever on topic anyway.
> 
> There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
> list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it.
> 
> This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of 
> people who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably 
> shouldn’t say bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) 
> but everybody else if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say 
> things I can’t really say with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say 
> without blowback to WISPA).
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> 
>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.
>> 
>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>> 
>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>> 
>> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
>> 
>> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
>> happening again.
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> 
>> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
>> 
>> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
>> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
>> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
>> 
>> Jared
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jon Langeler]

We have to recognize your name to be able to complain...

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Feb 13, 2018, at 3:25 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> 
>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>  No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the list. 
> 
>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>  Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me directly with 
> a canned message. 
> 
>> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>  Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out unsolicited 
> commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best practices 
> include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
> https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in
> 
>  In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, unbeknownst 
> to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email list. 
> 
> Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mike Hammett]

Michael Anderson AKA Bullit (or Bullet, I don't remember). 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mark Radabaugh"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:06:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here…. 

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA. Can’t recall the 
last name - Michael somebody ran the organization. One day Michael was mad 
about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty 
much the end of Part 15 and the list. I actually think that was during a Animal 
Farm session if I recall correctly. 

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at the 
time, but it later became that. Might have even been Motorola specific - not 
that it was ever on topic anyway. 

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on. Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it. 

This list has it’s advantages. It’s membership leans toward a group of people 
who have known each other for a very long time. You probably shouldn’t say bad 
things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else if 
fair game. I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say 
with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA). 

Mark 

> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
> 
> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too... 
> 
> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 
> 
> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year. 
> 
> You do realize that this list is my list, right? 
> 
> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right? 
> 
> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list. 
> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp. 
> 
> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp? That will prevent it from ever 
> happening again. 
> 
> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 
> 
> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that? 
> 
> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely 
> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets. 
> 
> Jared 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mike Hammett]

There's probably more important things to cry about. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: fiber...@mail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 

> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 
> 
> You do realize that this list is my list, right? 
No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the list. 

> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right? 
Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me directly with a 
canned message. 

> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list. 
Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out unsolicited 
commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best practices 
include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in 

In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, unbeknownst to 
me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email list. 

Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[TJ Trout]

I enjoy the email check sends, it's always entertaining.

Sounds like you should just unsubscribe and head off to the UBNT forums!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
wrote:

> Why, thank you Jay!
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 <(312)%20205-2519> Office
> 574-220-7826 <(574)%20220-7826> Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:03 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
> wrote:
>
>
> i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly part of
> being a WISPA member.
> i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a whole lot.
>
> I can mention several things I have really appreciated getting from "spam"
>
> * Baicells Black Friday Deal
> * Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
> *  Chuck Mccown's product announcements
>
> I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.
>
> I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* fiber...@mail.com
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018
> > From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> >
> > You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>   No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the
> list.
>
> > So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>   Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me directly
> with a canned message.
>
> > I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>   Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out
> unsolicited commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry
> best practices include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double
> opt-in: https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in
>
>   In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would,
> unbeknownst to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct
> email list.
>
> Jared
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mark Radabaugh]

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.   Can’t recall 
the last name - Michael somebody ran the organization.   One day Michael was 
mad about something and posted the infamous “I quit” email - and that was 
pretty much the end of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during 
a Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was called AFMUG at the 
time, but it later became that.   Might have even been Motorola specific - not 
that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes - it’s Chuck’s 
list though occasionally the members donate money for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a group of people 
who have known each other for a very long time.   You probably shouldn’t say 
bad things about WBMfg products (makes Chuck get all kranky) but everybody else 
if fair game.  I like it since it’s a place I can say things I can’t really say 
with a WISPA hat on (or at least I can’t say without blowback to WISPA).

Mark

> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...
> 
> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> 
> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.
> 
> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
> 
> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
> 
> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
> 
> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
> happening again.
> 
> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> 
> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
> 
> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
> 
> Jared
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Why, thank you Jay!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:03 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly part of being a 
> WISPA member.
> i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a whole lot.
>  
> I can mention several things I have really appreciated getting from "spam"
>  
> * Baicells Black Friday Deal
> * Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
> *  Chuck Mccown's product announcements
>  
> I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.
>  
> I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff
> - Original Message -
> From: fiber...@mail.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> 
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
> > From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> >
> > You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>   No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the list. 
> 
> > So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>   Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me directly with 
> a canned message. 
> 
> > I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>   Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out 
> unsolicited commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best 
> practices include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
> https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in
> 
>   In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, unbeknownst 
> to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email list. 
> 
> Jared

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Rory Conaway]

Do you actually see that in the real world or is that theoretical capacity?  
Also, what is the maximum speed of the client radios?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

I have an aggregate capacity of 400 mbps+ on a single 450 Medusa sector
using 40 mhz channelsŠ

On 2/13/18, 11:26 AM, "Af on behalf of Rory Conaway" > wrote:

>You will be waiting several months or more for multi-user LTU, same as
>other products still coming out.
>
>We always looks at ROI.  Except for 1 rare case that we bought 900Mhz
>450's for, and even then my ROI is well over 16 months or more, starting
>from scratch makes the 450 a challenge for profitability.  I'm also not
>convinced that the 450 will keep up with the rest of the industry in
>terms of capacity without much more investment whereas 802.11 products
>are cheap to upgrade.
>
>As for capacity, not starting with 802.11ac is DOA.  New 802.11ac
>chipsets are already pushing on 1024QAM and some other amazing features
>that will change how we deploy on towers.  RF Elements horns have already
>done that.
>
>For example, you can run 12 Ubiquiti Prisms with 12 horns, each covering
>30-40 degrees (overlap and minimizing the dropoff) for less than $5K.
>Even if you use 50/50 on GPS, you are still talking about at least
>1.2Gbps of download capacity (40MHz channels, 200Mbps per customer
>average).  Need more, RF Elements is shipping an even more narrow horn to
>double that.  What's even more amazing is that the need for GPS goes down
>significantly depending on how you deploy the horns meaning even more
>capacity.
>
>We have found that deploying Mimosa with 2 antennas covering 60-120
>degrees or Ubiquiti covering 30 degrees per AP in the directions we
>needed, meant we didn't have to cover 360 degrees.  If we added users
>that weren't in the pattern, we just added more APs or in the case of
>Mimosa, swapped out the antenna with more narrow patterns and added more
>APs to expand coverage .  A single user pays for a Ubiquiti/Horn AP in
>the first 8 months and 2 users Mimosa.   I understand this doesn't work
>well for tower deployments with outsourced climbers or with towers that
>are billed by cable pulls, antenna square footage, number of APs, etc...
>which is also why we rarely use towers.  I'd rather find a few lower
>locations that have easy access than a single tower but that's not always
>realistic.
>
>Rory
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
>Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:59 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>
>At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon
>arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may
>give a real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at
>smaller Channels. They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper
>than 450m so you could install a 360 degree cluster which you might
>densify at the direction where most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you
>could aggregate them to 10GE and feed them with a Licensed gear right up
>there. You only need to bring 48V DC up to the tower.
>
>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
>> An: af@afmug.com
>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>>
>> I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
>>
>> For greenfield? Probably not.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
>> > wrote:
>> > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
>> > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs
>> > in the
>> same frame.
>> > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
>> > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
>> > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need
>> > only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just
>> > another
>> tool in the toolbox.
>> >
>> > On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan"
>> >> :)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett 
>> >> >
>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
>> >>>
>> >>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds
>> >>> >
>> >>> wrote:
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Adam Moffett]

That's hitting the nail on the head.  I don't want penis enlargement 
spam, but I definitely want to hear about surge protectors and power 
systems and network equipment.


Spam me Chuck.  Spam me like one of your French girls.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 2/13/2018 3:57:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Ha... I never even realized that those weren't going to the list 
anymore... for some reason gmail puts it in my afmug folder.


The only thing that's slightly annoying is that I get them more than 
once because my other email address is on Chuck's list too, but I don't 
care enough to bother unsubscribing... I actually like getting spam 
about stuff that I'm interested in.


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
Doing it this way, someone can simply unsubscribe from the spam but 
not the list.  And Mail Chimp will never ever ever ever let me send 
that person anything again for all of eternity.  They rate the quality 
of lists for how many bounces, unsubscribes etc.  I have a pretty good 
rating with them.


The alternative is going back to the Friday spam and swap fest.

BTW, my distributors have spam rights too.  But only on Friday 
morning.


I prefer the list to be free from spam like it is now compared to 
before.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


I hope that was someone being humorous...  Otherwise...
#OFFWITHTHEIRHEAD  ...   Come on, Chuck's products are about the most
worthy of any vendor I know.   And POE fuses...  It's a fricken 
godsend!!!


BTW I need to by a bunch and wish I could buy the little racks with
them..   Oh well, amazon...


Robert

On 02/13/2018 11:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a 
year.


You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, 
right?


I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from 
ever happening again.


-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done 
any business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.


Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

i must get 20+ messages a month from various vendors.  mostly part of being a 
WISPA member.
i glance at most...but most often just use shift-delete a whole lot.

I can mention several things I have really appreciated getting from "spam"

* Baicells Black Friday Deal
* Jeff Broadwick's newsletter posts
*  Chuck Mccown's product announcements

I guess there are other product announcements I prefer too.

I shop at Baltic a lot, i usually read their stuff
  - Original Message - 
  From: fiber...@mail.com 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck


  > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
  > From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
  >
  > You do realize that this list is my list, right?
No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the list. 

  > So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me directly with 
a canned message. 

  > I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out 
unsolicited commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best 
practices include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in

In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, unbeknownst 
to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email list. 

  Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Jason McKemie]

Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
seems like a nightmare.

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>
>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
>> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>
>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>
>>> You are using this now?
>>>
>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>>
>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>>> 745.html
>>> 20M $7.66
>>> 10M $5.66
>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>>
>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>>
>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>>> 528.html
>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>>
>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>>
>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>>> port.
>>>
>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU
>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>>
>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>>>
>>> Gerard
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
 ONT  $ 215.00
 Unicam  $   15.00
 Cyber Power  $   81.00
 Cyber Install  $ 110.00
 House Sub Total * $ 450.00 *

 OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
 OIM $845/32  $   38.27
 Splitter $900/32  $   39.43
 DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 *


 Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 *


 *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
 *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
 *To:* Chuck McCown
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Chuck,

 Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser
 and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


 So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62
 per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for
 electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Mathew Howard]

Ha... I never even realized that those weren't going to the list anymore...
for some reason gmail puts it in my afmug folder.

The only thing that's slightly annoying is that I get them more than once
because my other email address is on Chuck's list too, but I don't care
enough to bother unsubscribing... I actually like getting spam about stuff
that I'm interested in.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Doing it this way, someone can simply unsubscribe from the spam but not
> the list.  And Mail Chimp will never ever ever ever let me send that person
> anything again for all of eternity.  They rate the quality of lists for how
> many bounces, unsubscribes etc.  I have a pretty good rating with them.
>
> The alternative is going back to the Friday spam and swap fest.
>
> BTW, my distributors have spam rights too.  But only on Friday morning.
>
> I prefer the list to be free from spam like it is now compared to before.
>
> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:14 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
>
> I hope that was someone being humorous...  Otherwise...
> #OFFWITHTHEIRHEAD  ...   Come on, Chuck's products are about the most
> worthy of any vendor I know.   And POE fuses...  It's a fricken godsend!!!
>
> BTW I need to by a bunch and wish I could buy the little racks with
> them..   Oh well, amazon...
>
>
> Robert
>
> On 02/13/2018 11:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
>> I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.
>>
>> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
>>
>> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
>>
>> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
>> But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.
>>
>> Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
>> happening again.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
>>
>> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
>> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
>> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Robert Andrews]

Yep and the little sucker wanted 240...  Go tell, why don't these things 
do what I was thinking instead of what I accidentally ordered...


On 02/13/2018 11:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

You have checked that you really are feeding with 120 VAC, right?

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews Sent: Tuesday, February 
13, 2018 12:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] I must be doing 
something wrong...
So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different 
vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there and 
pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16 loaded 
with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So I am 
telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and it's 
probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?   Need a 
battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is really two of 
them that are both bad?input is connected to line correctly, 
verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline volt/current 
meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the output...


I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out before 
they say back to me "Stupid American"



Robert

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Robert Andrews]

Figured it out...   Needed to order the S unit with a switchable input 
voltage not the plain unit that wants 200-240VAC...   Yep sometimes I am 
just that dumb...


Good news is that Jameco now accepts paypal and somehow they are 
shipping to me faster than Amazon!


Robert

On 02/13/2018 11:49 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Have you checked your input wiring? No bad landings?
Is this an adjustable unit on output side? Not ever worked with meanwell 
so forgive questions...


Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 12:23 PM, "Robert Andrews" > wrote:


So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different
vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there
and pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16
loaded with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So
I am telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and
it's probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load? 
  Need a battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is

really two of them that are both bad?input is connected to line
correctly, verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline
volt/current meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the
output...

I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out
before they say back to me "Stupid American"


Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[fiberrun]

> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> You do realize that this list is my list, right?
  No, I did not know that. It doesn't say so when you sign up for the list. 

> So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?
  Participating on the list isn't quite the same as inboxing me directly with a 
canned message. 

> I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
  Your list, your rules. I still don't think it's cool to send out unsolicited 
commercial messages without an opt-in. Furthermore industry best practices 
include using a double opt-in. Mailchimp support double opt-in: 
https://kb.mailchimp.com/lists/signup-forms/about-double-opt-in

  In summary: I did not know that by joining the Af list I would, unbeknownst 
to me and surreptitiously, be signed up for another direct email list. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Jaime Solorza]

Make it a play..call it SpamAllot

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 12:59 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Hey, no harm, no foul.  I presume you just didn't know.
>
> -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
>
> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
>
> Jared
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Chuck McCown]

Hey, no harm, no foul.  I presume you just didn't know.

-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely 
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.


Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Robert Andrews]

Thanks, I'll check that, it sounds like that could be the problem.

On 02/13/2018 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I haven't used that model, but I did have a meanwell power supply once 
with a jumper to select 240v vs 120v, and it came as 240v by default. 
When set to the wrong input voltage, it did turn on, but put out the 
wrong DC voltage and an internal breaker would trip at the drop of a hat.



-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/13/2018 2:23:31 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different 
vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there and 
pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16 
loaded with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So I 
am telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and it's 
probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?   Need a 
battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is really two of 
them that are both bad?input is connected to line correctly, 
verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline volt/current 
meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the output...


I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out before 
they say back to me "Stupid American"



Robert

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Chuck McCown]

You have checked that you really are feeding with 120 VAC, right?

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:23 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong... 

So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different 
vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there and 
pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16 loaded 
with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So I am 
telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and it's 
probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?   Need a 
battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is really two of 
them that are both bad?input is connected to line correctly, 
verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline volt/current 
meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the output...


I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out before 
they say back to me "Stupid American"



Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Chuck McCown]

Doing it this way, someone can simply unsubscribe from the spam but not the 
list.  And Mail Chimp will never ever ever ever let me send that person 
anything again for all of eternity.  They rate the quality of lists for how 
many bounces, unsubscribes etc.  I have a pretty good rating with them.


The alternative is going back to the Friday spam and swap fest.

BTW, my distributors have spam rights too.  But only on Friday morning.

I prefer the list to be free from spam like it is now compared to before.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I hope that was someone being humorous...  Otherwise...
#OFFWITHTHEIRHEAD  ...   Come on, Chuck's products are about the most
worthy of any vendor I know.   And POE fuses...  It's a fricken godsend!!!

BTW I need to by a bunch and wish I could buy the little racks with
them..   Oh well, amazon...


Robert

On 02/13/2018 11:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever 
happening again.


-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.


Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Jaime Solorza]

Have you checked your input wiring? No bad landings?
Is this an adjustable unit on output side? Not ever worked with meanwell so
forgive questions...

Jaime Solorza

On Feb 13, 2018 12:23 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

> So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different
> vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there and
> pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16 loaded
> with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So I am telling
> myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and it's probably
> something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?   Need a battery in the
> load?   Anyone have any help here or is really two of them that are both
> bad?input is connected to line correctly, verified with volt/ohm
> meter.output is just an inline volt/current meter into a routerboard..
> only about 4 watts on the output...
>
> I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out before
> they say back to me "Stupid American"
>
>
> Robert
>

Re: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Adam Moffett]

I haven't used that model, but I did have a meanwell power supply once 
with a jumper to select 240v vs 120v, and it came as 240v by default.  
When set to the wrong input voltage, it did turn on, but put out the 
wrong DC voltage and an internal breaker would trip at the drop of a 
hat.



-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/13/2018 2:23:31 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different 
vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there and 
pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16 loaded 
with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So I am 
telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and it's 
probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?   Need a 
battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is really two of 
them that are both bad?input is connected to line correctly, 
verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline volt/current 
meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the output...


I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out before 
they say back to me "Stupid American"



Robert

[AFMUG] managed DC

[Gino A. Villarini]

Stumbled into this UBNT community post where it is demonstrated the use of a 
Altronix DC panel for WISP use, It has web management among other goodies

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeMAX-Stories/24V-Power-Distribution-Unit/cns-p/2223858





Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

[AFMUG] I must be doing something wrong...

[Robert Andrews]

So I ordered two of the meanwell DRP-48-24's from two different 
vendors...   Hooked both of them up to AC.   They _Both_ sit there and 
pulse the DC out light and only output 20V unloaded and about 16 loaded 
with the output looking like it's switching on and off.   So I am 
telling myself the odds are long that I got two bad ones and it's 
probably something I'm not doing right.  Not enough load?   Need a 
battery in the load?   Anyone have any help here or is really two of 
them that are both bad?input is connected to line correctly, 
verified with volt/ohm meter.output is just an inline volt/current 
meter into a routerboard..  only about 4 watts on the output...


I am just about to send one back to taiwan and want to find out before 
they say back to me "Stupid American"



Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Robert Andrews]

I hope that was someone being humorous...  Otherwise... 
#OFFWITHTHEIRHEAD  ...   Come on, Chuck's products are about the most 
worthy of any vendor I know.   And POE fuses...  It's a fricken godsend!!!


BTW I need to by a bunch and wish I could buy the little racks with 
them..   Oh well, amazon...



Robert

On 02/13/2018 11:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever 
happening again.


-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in 
extremely poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.


Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

Fair warning, Forrest has spam rights too...

-Original Message- 
From: ch...@wbmfg.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever
happening again.

-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[chuck]

I merge my AnimalFarm email list with my MailChimp list about once a year.

You do realize that this list is my list, right?

So essentially every time I make a posting here I am spamming you, right?

I used to do it every Friday right here on this list.
But I think it is cleaner and better quality to use MailChimp.

Did you unsubscribe from the Mail Chimp?  That will prevent it from ever 
happening again.


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely 
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.


Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Gino A. Villarini]

I have an aggregate capacity of 400 mbps+ on a single 450 Medusa sector
using 40 mhz channelsŠ

On 2/13/18, 11:26 AM, "Af on behalf of Rory Conaway"  wrote:

>You will be waiting several months or more for multi-user LTU, same as
>other products still coming out.
>
>We always looks at ROI.  Except for 1 rare case that we bought 900Mhz
>450's for, and even then my ROI is well over 16 months or more, starting
>from scratch makes the 450 a challenge for profitability.  I'm also not
>convinced that the 450 will keep up with the rest of the industry in
>terms of capacity without much more investment whereas 802.11 products
>are cheap to upgrade.
>
>As for capacity, not starting with 802.11ac is DOA.  New 802.11ac
>chipsets are already pushing on 1024QAM and some other amazing features
>that will change how we deploy on towers.  RF Elements horns have already
>done that.
>
>For example, you can run 12 Ubiquiti Prisms with 12 horns, each covering
>30-40 degrees (overlap and minimizing the dropoff) for less than $5K.
>Even if you use 50/50 on GPS, you are still talking about at least
>1.2Gbps of download capacity (40MHz channels, 200Mbps per customer
>average).  Need more, RF Elements is shipping an even more narrow horn to
>double that.  What's even more amazing is that the need for GPS goes down
>significantly depending on how you deploy the horns meaning even more
>capacity.
>
>We have found that deploying Mimosa with 2 antennas covering 60-120
>degrees or Ubiquiti covering 30 degrees per AP in the directions we
>needed, meant we didn't have to cover 360 degrees.  If we added users
>that weren't in the pattern, we just added more APs or in the case of
>Mimosa, swapped out the antenna with more narrow patterns and added more
>APs to expand coverage .  A single user pays for a Ubiquiti/Horn AP in
>the first 8 months and 2 users Mimosa.   I understand this doesn't work
>well for tower deployments with outsourced climbers or with towers that
>are billed by cable pulls, antenna square footage, number of APs, etc...
>which is also why we rarely use towers.  I'd rather find a few lower
>locations that have easy access than a single tower but that's not always
>realistic.
>
>Rory
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
>Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:59 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>
>At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon
>arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may
>give a real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at
>smaller Channels. They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper
>than 450m so you could install a 360 degree cluster which you might
>densify at the direction where most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you
>could aggregate them to 10GE and feed them with a Licensed gear right up
>there. You only need to bring 48V DC up to the tower.
>
>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
>> An: af@afmug.com
>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>>
>> I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
>>
>> For greenfield? Probably not.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
>>  wrote:
>> > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
>> > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs
>> > in the
>> same frame.
>> > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
>> > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
>> > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need
>> > only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just
>> > another
>> tool in the toolbox.
>> >
>> > On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan"
>> >> :)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett 
>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
>> >>>
>> >>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds
>> >>> 
>> >>> wrote:
>> 
>>  If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to
>>  back frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
>> 
>>  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the
>> > clients evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take
>> > advantage of the MU-MIMO.
>> >
>> > we have clients 

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[Josh Baird]

This is his list.  I guess you could opt out if you don't want to receive
email from him.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:58 PM,  wrote:

> I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?
>
> I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any
> business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely
> poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets.
>
> Jared
>

[AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

[fiberrun]

I just got spammed by Chuck McCown. What's up with that?

I sure as hell haven't signed up for any of his email lists nor done any 
business with him, or even indicate I would like to. I find it in extremely 
poor taste to mine the Af list for spam targets. 

Jared

[AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

[chuck]

Is underway.  
Conversion to fiber splicing trailer.  Will post photos as we make progress.
I wonder if you can buy an RV door with frame somewhere?

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Dave]

Im looking forward to getting the 3.65 and 5G medusa on our network soon.
 We have a site with 6 450i fully loaded around 40 -50 subs each being 
fed by a

ptp650 and ptp800 system.
I usually see about 98 to 99% frame use on 2 of them during peak hours 
because there a

couple subs pulling down below 16qam
Working that issue to remove those few and bring capacity to full.
I have ptp820 on order to upgrade the ptp650 and very excited about that.

I see the majority of our customers have a constant speed and latency 
without issue.

cant beat that 10ms ping to google :)


On 02/13/2018 09:48 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
The flaw with those calcs is that the actually does, theoretically, 
have 7x the capacity of anything else out there doing 256qam in a 
20mhz channel. Granted, you're probably never actually going to get 
that kind of capacity in the real world, since it's going to depend on 
the conditions being perfect, and the customers all being in just the 
right geographic location, but 3-4 times the capacity of a typical 2x2 
system isn't at all unrealistic... that said, I've never used 450m, 
and probably never will, because we just don't have the kind of 
subscriber density where it would make sense anywhere in our network.


Also, anybody that would put 80 customers on a single AP on a 20mhz 
channel with any 2x2 system that's currently available is... nuts.


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:


Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce that
down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:
> Let's break this down a bit.
>
> Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi
anymore? *shakes head*
>
> Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
> (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
> timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up
in the
> same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the AP
> (like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead to
> cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up getting
> reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking a
> hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
> even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
> costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
> elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
> system like this... so only decent in very dense situations.
That's a
> unique niche.
>
> So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
> (450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).
>
> 30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually
streaming.
> Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
> gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
> most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous. Let's
> take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume that
> maybe 70% of those 80 customers is doing something like that, and
> that's probably a generous number. 56 customers. So 56 customers x
> 8Mbps = 448Mbps. On a 20Mhz channel? Wait, this doesn't seem to work
> out!
>
> Soo 1024 QAM on a 20MHz channel gives you 250Mbps, very roughly.
> If you're optimistic about modern patterns, you're between an 80/20
> and a 60/40 Download/Upload ratio on a split GPS synced system.
>
> 80/20 = 200Mbps Down, 50Mbps Up
> 60/40 = 150 Down, 100Mbps Up
>
> Let's say for the sake of argument that you're in the 80/20 camp,
> giving you 200Mbps to work with in above perfect conditions,
gives you
> 3.57 Mbps per subscriber. Roughly 4M/sub, good for 480p streaming.
>
> That's a very expensive platform for that kind of throughput and
> subscriber count with such limitations in range and needed a
"perfect
> storm" of client distribution and data patterns to really take
> advantage of. With working GPS in all modern platforms, I would be
> hard pressed to not use an additional 20mhz channel if available, or
> just cut the channel width in half to 10MHz each, and put up 4
Mimosas
> or 4 Gen2 Prism radios and have far more than 4x the possible
> subscriber account, improved tx/rx efficiency, improved range
> (increasing distance and SNR in many situations), and greatly
reduced
> cost.
>
> Again, I'm far more excited about the 4x increase in spectral
> efficiency via OFDMA that doesn't cause you to cut down on tx/rx
> chains for multi-client transmission (costing your range, per client
> snr, and per-client throughput in the 

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Rory Conaway]

So far, all of it.  We don’t have to worry about reusing frequencies with this 
kind of deployment.  We have such a dynamic and high-interference environment 
with competitors moving stuff around all the time, there is no channel we can 
use that may not have interference within 24 hours, hence the more narrow beam 
patterns.  We also have so many new customers going in that things that  
topologies are changing drastically.  We have migrated many APs to 40MHz as we 
understand more of where we have to cover and can plan better.  You have to 
take care with distances in DFS directions but that’s pretty much it.

That being said, as we get more APs per location, we are starting to migrate 
towards GPS and with Ubiquiti, 40MHz channels.  With Mimosa, we are moving 
towards 80MHz channels (more customers per AP due to range differences in 
deployment models).  This should set us up for next generation products also.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

How much total frequency are you using with 12 horns deployed at a site?  What 
does your frequency re-use pattern look like?



On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
You will be waiting several months or more for multi-user LTU, same as other 
products still coming out.

We always looks at ROI.  Except for 1 rare case that we bought 900Mhz 450's 
for, and even then my ROI is well over 16 months or more, starting from scratch 
makes the 450 a challenge for profitability.  I'm also not convinced that the 
450 will keep up with the rest of the industry in terms of capacity without 
much more investment whereas 802.11 products are cheap to upgrade.

As for capacity, not starting with 802.11ac is DOA.  New 802.11ac chipsets are 
already pushing on 1024QAM and some other amazing features that will change how 
we deploy on towers.  RF Elements horns have already done that.

For example, you can run 12 Ubiquiti Prisms with 12 horns, each covering 30-40 
degrees (overlap and minimizing the dropoff) for less than $5K.  Even if you 
use 50/50 on GPS, you are still talking about at least 1.2Gbps of download 
capacity (40MHz channels, 200Mbps per customer average).  Need more, RF 
Elements is shipping an even more narrow horn to double that.  What's even more 
amazing is that the need for GPS goes down significantly depending on how you 
deploy the horns meaning even more capacity.

We have found that deploying Mimosa with 2 antennas covering 60-120 degrees or 
Ubiquiti covering 30 degrees per AP in the directions we needed, meant we 
didn't have to cover 360 degrees.  If we added users that weren't in the 
pattern, we just added more APs or in the case of Mimosa, swapped out the 
antenna with more narrow patterns and added more APs to expand coverage .  A 
single user pays for a Ubiquiti/Horn AP in the first 8 months and 2 users 
Mimosa.   I understand this doesn't work well for tower deployments with 
outsourced climbers or with towers that are billed by cable pulls, antenna 
square footage, number of APs, etc...  which is also why we rarely use towers.  
I'd rather find a few lower locations that have easy access than a single tower 
but that's not always realistic.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon 
arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may give a 
real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at smaller Channels. 
They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper than 450m so you could 
install a 360 degree cluster which you might densify at the direction where 
most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you could aggregate them to 10GE and feed 
them with a Licensed gear right up there. You only need to bring 48V DC up to 
the tower.


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag 
> von Josh Reynolds
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>
> I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
>
> For greenfield? Probably not.
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
> > wrote:
> > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
> > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs
> > in the
> same frame.
> > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
> > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
> > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same 

Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=827g9r0Sqds 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Simon Westlake"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:54:27 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave 

HTTPS content filtering should be easy, assuming they have a database of sites 
to filter, and they're not doing it on the fly. For TLS <= 1.2 at least, you 
can use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication to get the 
hostname that the client is attempting to connect to. 

Last I read, TLS 1.3 is encrypting/getting rid of SNI, which means if/when TLS 
1.3 comes into play, all bets may be off. I think Procera is looking into 
things like machine learning and DNS inspection to try to deal with this, but 
it is a constant back and forth. 


On 2/8/2018 12:40 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: 




Also ask about how they filter HTTPS (i.e.: over 73% of the sites in America). 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/21/googles-annual-report-shows-more-web-traffic-is-encrypted/
 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 10:33 AM 
To: af@afmug.com ; af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave 


Thanks for the tip! I'll be sure to ask them in the engineering call next week. 





-- Original Message -- 

From: "Cassidy B. Larson" < c...@infowest.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 2/8/2018 11:48:11 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave 





Ask them about IPv6. I’ve been asking for years. No movement, no plans. They 
say I can bridge v6 through it and block all v6.. but that’s not a solution. 












On Feb 8, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Unrelated to Chuck's thread, we started talking internally about offering 
content filtering as a value add. 



An initial conversation with Trustwave seemed promising, and I'm supposed to 
have a follow up to discuss tech details later. 



But does anybody still do this? Is there still consumer interest? How much 
are/were you selling it for? 







-- 
Simon Westlake | CEO simon@sonar.software (702) 447-1247 https://sonar.software 

Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

[Simon Westlake]

HTTPS content filtering should be easy, assuming they have a database of 
sites to filter, and they're not doing it on the fly. For TLS <= 1.2 at 
least, you can use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication 
to get the hostname that the client is attempting to connect to.


Last I read, TLS 1.3 is encrypting/getting rid of SNI, which means 
if/when TLS 1.3 comes into play, all bets may be off. I think Procera is 
looking into things like machine learning and DNS inspection to try to 
deal with this, but it is a constant back and forth.


On 2/8/2018 12:40 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:


Also ask about how they filter HTTPS (i.e.: over 73% of the sites in 
America).


https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/21/googles-annual-report-shows-more-web-traffic-is-encrypted/

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2018 10:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com; af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

Thanks for the tip!  I'll be sure to ask them in the engineering call 
next week.


-- Original Message --

From: "Cassidy B. Larson" >

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 2/8/2018 11:48:11 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

Ask them about IPv6. I’ve been asking for years. No movement, no
plans. They say I can bridge v6 through it and block all v6.. but
that’s not a solution.



On Feb 8, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

Unrelated to Chuck's thread, we started talking internally
about offering content filtering as a value add.

An initial conversation with Trustwave seemed promising, and
I'm supposed to have a follow up to discuss tech details later.

But does anybody still do this?  Is there still consumer
interest?  How much are/were you selling it for?



--
Simon Westlake | CEO
simon@sonar.software
(702) 447-1247
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Mathew Howard]

The flaw with those calcs is that the actually does, theoretically, have 7x
the capacity of anything else out there doing 256qam in a 20mhz channel.
Granted, you're probably never actually going to get that kind of capacity
in the real world, since it's going to depend on the conditions being
perfect, and the customers all being in just the right geographic location,
but 3-4 times the capacity of a typical 2x2 system isn't at all
unrealistic... that said, I've never used 450m, and probably never will,
because we just don't have the kind of subscriber density where it would
make sense anywhere in our network.

Also, anybody that would put 80 customers on a single AP on a 20mhz channel
with any 2x2 system that's currently available is... nuts.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce that
> down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> > Let's break this down a bit.
> >
> > Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
> *shakes head*
> >
> > Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
> > (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
> > timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in the
> > same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the AP
> > (like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead to
> > cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up getting
> > reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking a
> > hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
> > even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
> > costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
> > elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
> > system like this... so only decent in very dense situations. That's a
> > unique niche.
> >
> > So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
> > (450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).
> >
> > 30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually streaming.
> > Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
> > gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
> > most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous. Let's
> > take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume that
> > maybe 70% of those 80 customers is doing something like that, and
> > that's probably a generous number. 56 customers. So 56 customers x
> > 8Mbps = 448Mbps. On a 20Mhz channel? Wait, this doesn't seem to work
> > out!
> >
> > Soo 1024 QAM on a 20MHz channel gives you 250Mbps, very roughly.
> > If you're optimistic about modern patterns, you're between an 80/20
> > and a 60/40 Download/Upload ratio on a split GPS synced system.
> >
> > 80/20 = 200Mbps Down, 50Mbps Up
> > 60/40 = 150 Down, 100Mbps Up
> >
> > Let's say for the sake of argument that you're in the 80/20 camp,
> > giving you 200Mbps to work with in above perfect conditions, gives you
> > 3.57 Mbps per subscriber. Roughly 4M/sub, good for 480p streaming.
> >
> > That's a very expensive platform for that kind of throughput and
> > subscriber count with such limitations in range and needed a "perfect
> > storm" of client distribution and data patterns to really take
> > advantage of. With working GPS in all modern platforms, I would be
> > hard pressed to not use an additional 20mhz channel if available, or
> > just cut the channel width in half to 10MHz each, and put up 4 Mimosas
> > or 4 Gen2 Prism radios and have far more than 4x the possible
> > subscriber account, improved tx/rx efficiency, improved range
> > (increasing distance and SNR in many situations), and greatly reduced
> > cost.
> >
> > Again, I'm far more excited about the 4x increase in spectral
> > efficiency via OFDMA that doesn't cause you to cut down on tx/rx
> > chains for multi-client transmission (costing your range, per client
> > snr, and per-client throughput in the process). MU-MIMO is and will
> > always be a niche hack that never lived up to what was promised.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> >> Being able to load a 450m AP with 80 subs and deliver 30mbps service to
> all
> >> of them at peak Netflix time in a 20mhz channel without breaking a
> sweat is
> >> worth every penny.
> >>
> >> But it’s one tool in the tool box and isn’t the best solution for every
> >> deployment.
> >>
> >> 2 cents
> >>
> >> -sean
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:32 PM Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The more I dig into MU-MIMO, the more I realize it's not all that
> great.
> >>>
> >>> I am far more excited by the 9 client simultaneous transmissions in
> >>> 802.11ax via OFDMA.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Adam 

Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

[Adam Moffett]

I had to do an NDA for the Trustwave discussion, but I don't think 
they'd mind me saying that IPv6 support is coming in Q2 this year and 
that they have a solution for HTTPS traffic.


I'm not entirely sure if there's a business case yet, but may be.   It's 
not just porno, it's also anti-malware and anti-phishing.  In theory 
somebody is paying $80/year for Norton Internet Security, and maybe that 
should be my money instead of Norton's.




-- Original Message --
From: "Randy Cosby" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/8/2018 1:40:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

Also ask about how they filter HTTPS (i.e.: over 73% of the sites in 
America).




https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/21/googles-annual-report-shows-more-web-traffic-is-encrypted/



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 10:33 AM
To:af@afmug.com; af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave



Thanks for the tip!  I'll be sure to ask them in the engineering call 
next week.






-- Original Message --

From: "Cassidy B. Larson" 

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 2/8/2018 11:48:11 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave



Ask them about IPv6. I’ve been asking for years. No movement, no 
plans. They say I can bridge v6 through it and block all v6.. but 
that’s not a solution.










On Feb 8, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Unrelated to Chuck's thread, we started talking internally about 
offering content filtering as a value add.




An initial conversation with Trustwave seemed promising, and I'm 
supposed to have a follow up to discuss tech details later.




But does anybody still do this?  Is there still consumer interest?  
How much are/were you selling it for?

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Rory Conaway]

You will be waiting several months or more for multi-user LTU, same as other 
products still coming out.

We always looks at ROI.  Except for 1 rare case that we bought 900Mhz 450's 
for, and even then my ROI is well over 16 months or more, starting from scratch 
makes the 450 a challenge for profitability.  I'm also not convinced that the 
450 will keep up with the rest of the industry in terms of capacity without 
much more investment whereas 802.11 products are cheap to upgrade.

As for capacity, not starting with 802.11ac is DOA.  New 802.11ac chipsets are 
already pushing on 1024QAM and some other amazing features that will change how 
we deploy on towers.  RF Elements horns have already done that.

For example, you can run 12 Ubiquiti Prisms with 12 horns, each covering 30-40 
degrees (overlap and minimizing the dropoff) for less than $5K.  Even if you 
use 50/50 on GPS, you are still talking about at least 1.2Gbps of download 
capacity (40MHz channels, 200Mbps per customer average).  Need more, RF 
Elements is shipping an even more narrow horn to double that.  What's even more 
amazing is that the need for GPS goes down significantly depending on how you 
deploy the horns meaning even more capacity.  

We have found that deploying Mimosa with 2 antennas covering 60-120 degrees or 
Ubiquiti covering 30 degrees per AP in the directions we needed, meant we 
didn't have to cover 360 degrees.  If we added users that weren't in the 
pattern, we just added more APs or in the case of Mimosa, swapped out the 
antenna with more narrow patterns and added more APs to expand coverage .  A 
single user pays for a Ubiquiti/Horn AP in the first 8 months and 2 users 
Mimosa.   I understand this doesn't work well for tower deployments with 
outsourced climbers or with towers that are billed by cable pulls, antenna 
square footage, number of APs, etc...  which is also why we rarely use towers.  
I'd rather find a few lower locations that have easy access than a single tower 
but that's not always realistic.

Rory   

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon 
arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may give a 
real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at smaller Channels. 
They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper than 450m so you could 
install a 360 degree cluster which you might densify at the direction where 
most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you could aggregate them to 10GE and feed 
them with a Licensed gear right up there. You only need to bring 48V DC up to 
the tower.


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
> 
> I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
> 
> For greenfield? Probably not.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup 
>  wrote:
> > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the 
> > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs 
> > in the
> same frame.
> > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right 
> > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And 
> > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need 
> > only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just 
> > another
> tool in the toolbox.
> >
> > On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> >>
> >> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan"
> >> :)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
> >>>
> >>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to 
>  back frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
> 
>  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the 
> > clients evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take 
> > advantage of the MU-MIMO.
> >
> > we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is 
> > 64qam).
> >
> > it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing 
> > with regular
> > 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would 
> > need 3 APs each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
> >
> > win, win, win.
> >
> > but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
> >
> > 2 cents
> >

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Baird]

How much total frequency are you using with 12 horns deployed at a site?
What does your frequency re-use pattern look like?



On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> You will be waiting several months or more for multi-user LTU, same as
> other products still coming out.
>
> We always looks at ROI.  Except for 1 rare case that we bought 900Mhz
> 450's for, and even then my ROI is well over 16 months or more, starting
> from scratch makes the 450 a challenge for profitability.  I'm also not
> convinced that the 450 will keep up with the rest of the industry in terms
> of capacity without much more investment whereas 802.11 products are cheap
> to upgrade.
>
> As for capacity, not starting with 802.11ac is DOA.  New 802.11ac chipsets
> are already pushing on 1024QAM and some other amazing features that will
> change how we deploy on towers.  RF Elements horns have already done that.
>
> For example, you can run 12 Ubiquiti Prisms with 12 horns, each covering
> 30-40 degrees (overlap and minimizing the dropoff) for less than $5K.  Even
> if you use 50/50 on GPS, you are still talking about at least 1.2Gbps of
> download capacity (40MHz channels, 200Mbps per customer average).  Need
> more, RF Elements is shipping an even more narrow horn to double that.
> What's even more amazing is that the need for GPS goes down significantly
> depending on how you deploy the horns meaning even more capacity.
>
> We have found that deploying Mimosa with 2 antennas covering 60-120
> degrees or Ubiquiti covering 30 degrees per AP in the directions we needed,
> meant we didn't have to cover 360 degrees.  If we added users that weren't
> in the pattern, we just added more APs or in the case of Mimosa, swapped
> out the antenna with more narrow patterns and added more APs to expand
> coverage .  A single user pays for a Ubiquiti/Horn AP in the first 8 months
> and 2 users Mimosa.   I understand this doesn't work well for tower
> deployments with outsourced climbers or with towers that are billed by
> cable pulls, antenna square footage, number of APs, etc...  which is also
> why we rarely use towers.  I'd rather find a few lower locations that have
> easy access than a single tower but that's not always realistic.
>
> Rory
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:59 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>
> At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon
> arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may give
> a real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at smaller
> Channels. They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper than 450m
> so you could install a 360 degree cluster which you might densify at the
> direction where most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you could aggregate
> them to 10GE and feed them with a Licensed gear right up there. You only
> need to bring 48V DC up to the tower.
>
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
> > An: af@afmug.com
> > Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
> >
> > I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
> >
> > For greenfield? Probably not.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
> >  wrote:
> > > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
> > > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs
> > > in the
> > same frame.
> > > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
> > > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
> > > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need
> > > only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just
> > > another
> > tool in the toolbox.
> > >
> > > On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan"
> > >> :)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
> > >>>
> > >>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds
> > >>> 
> > >>> wrote:
> > 
> >  If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to
> >  back frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
> > 
> >  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the
> > > clients evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take
> > > advantage of the MU-MIMO.
> > >
> > > we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is
> > > 64qam).
> > >

Re: [AFMUG] ISP in a box

[Carl Peterson]

I'm working on a similar project.
Still looking for hardware for the vMX BNG but the basic outline is:

vMX running as a BNG on ? hardware.
DHCP, DNS server running on a slice on the same server.  Possibly also a
fall over Freeradius instance with some default accept behavior.  We run
accounts based on circuits so we could have all the possible circuits for
the POP already set up in the radius server with default attributes just in
case the BNG can't get back to our main authentication servers for some
reason.

In theory, you could also use that as your router, but I prefer to keep
that separate so an ACX in packet mode as the router.  Either ACX1100 or
ACX2200 depending on 1G/10G.

For me, I'm a firm believer in running a BNG to do authenticated IPoE on
unique customer circuits.  I'm guessing Mikrotik et al can also do this
somehow.

I'm trying to fit this all into a Calix ODC100 along with the E7-2.



On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:59 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Had a subdivision developer contact me, wanting service for their hundred
> or so homes.
> I can get DIA close to the area at a reasonable area.  It will require
> some build but that is OK, that is something I feel some level of
> expertise.
>
> Considering a minimal NOC build.
>
> I asked this question of someone once before and I cannot find their
> answer.  Not sure if asked on the list or not.  But the answer went
> something like this:
>
>
>1. Buy a big CCR.
>2. Hire Linktechs to configure it.
>3. Put in a big switch for the AE SFPs and rock and roll.
>
>
> I am sure I would need at least one server.  DHCP, NAT, DNS?
> But can all of that be provided by the CCR?
>
> What is the smallest NOC configuration that could be created?
>
> Batts, rectifier, cooling.
>
> I really could put all this in a cabinet on the corner of the street.
>
>
>
>



-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

And the cpes are very cheap...

On Feb 13, 2018 2:58 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

> At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon
> arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may give
> a real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at smaller
> Channels. They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper than 450m
> so you could install a 360 degree cluster which you might densify at the
> direction where most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you could aggregate
> them to 10GE and feed them with a Licensed gear right up there. You only
> need to bring 48V DC up to the tower.
>
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
> > An: af@afmug.com
> > Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
> >
> > I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
> >
> > For greenfield? Probably not.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
> >  wrote:
> > > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
> > > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs in
> the
> > same frame.
> > > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
> > > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
> > > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need
> > > only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just
> another
> > tool in the toolbox.
> > >
> > > On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan"
> > >> :)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
> > >>>
> > >>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds
> > >>> 
> > >>> wrote:
> > 
> >  If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to
> >  back frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
> > 
> >  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the
> > > clients evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take
> > > advantage of the MU-MIMO.
> > >
> > > we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is
> > > 64qam).
> > >
> > > it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with
> > > regular
> > > 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would
> > > need 3 APs each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
> > >
> > > win, win, win.
> > >
> > > but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
> > >
> > > 2 cents
> > >
> > > -sean
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients
> > >> are short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.
> > >>
> > >> It's a niche of a niche.
> > >>
> > >> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all,
> > >> I'm just saying it's not the second coming like people make it
> > >> out to be.)
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett 
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take
> > >>> a chill pill.
> > >>>
> > >>> I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world
> > >>> environment, earning me real world dollars and conserving much
> > >>> needed spectrum.
> > >>>
> > >>> It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right
> > >>> conditions the 450m delivers.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers bud
> > >>>
> > >>> -sean
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds
> > >>> 
> > >>> wrote:
> > 
> >  Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so
> >  reduce that down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)
> > 
> >  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds
> >  
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Let's break this down a bit.
> > >
> > > Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi
> anymore?
> > > *shakes head*
> > >
> > > Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread
> > > apart (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into
> > > almost the same timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one
> > > client that ends 

[AFMUG] CnPilot with SFP?

[Adam Moffett]

Speaking of AE.

Is there a Cambium router on the roadmap with an SFP port?  If I could 
stick all my Active Ethernet CPE into CnMaestro I'd be happy as a pig in 
sh**.

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Adam Moffett]

That's a good point.  If his build out time frame is a year down the 
road, I'd pick something now as a fallback plan, but keep my eyes peeled 
for both Ubiquiti LTU and ePMP 3000.  These are both interesting 
sounding.



-- Original Message --
From: "Stefan Englhardt" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/13/2018 3:58:33 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should 
soon arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns 
may give a real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at 
smaller Channels. They will use power below 10W and will be much 
cheaper than 450m so you could install a 360 degree cluster which you 
might densify at the direction where most customers live. Using an 
EP-S16 you could aggregate them to 10GE and feed them with a Licensed 
gear right up there. You only need to bring 48V DC up to the tower.




-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.

For greenfield? Probably not.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
 wrote:
> One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
> throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs 
in the

same frame.
> But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
> conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
> instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need
> only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just 
another

tool in the toolbox.
>
> On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower 
plan"

>> :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett  
wrote:

>>>
>>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
>>>
>>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds
>>> 
>>> wrote:

 If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to
 back frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...

 On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett 
wrote:
>
> actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the
> clients evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take
> advantage of the MU-MIMO.
>
> we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is
> 64qam).
>
> it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing 
with

> regular
> 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would
> need 3 APs each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
>
> win, win, win.
>
> but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -sean
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds
> 
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients
>> are short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is 
costly.

>>
>> It's a niche of a niche.
>>
>> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at 
all,

>> I'm just saying it's not the second coming like people make it
>> out to be.)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett 


>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude 
take

>>> a chill pill.
>>>
>>> I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world
>>> environment, earning me real world dollars and conserving much
>>> needed spectrum.
>>>
>>> It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the 
right

>>> conditions the 450m delivers.
>>>
>>> Cheers bud
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds
>>> 
>>> wrote:

 Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so
 reduce that down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)

 On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds
 
 wrote:
>
> Let's break this down a bit.
>
> Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi 
anymore?

> *shakes head*
>
> Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread
> apart (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into
> almost the same timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one
> client that ends up in the same window as other clients
> reduces the overall capacity of the AP (like in many other
> situations). It can, in some situations, lead to cumulative
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP
have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The
only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with,
if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that
solves the problem.

Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when
they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and
voip.

We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.



On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>
> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>
> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped.
> I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei
> version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-
> MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.
> 7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>
> Gerard
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>
>> You are using this now?
>>
>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>
>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>> 745.html
>> 20M $7.66
>> 10M $5.66
>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>
>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>
>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>> 528.html
>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>
>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>
>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>> port.
>>
>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring
>> (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>
>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
>>> ONT  $ 215.00
>>> Unicam  $   15.00
>>> Cyber Power  $   81.00
>>> Cyber Install  $ 110.00
>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 *
>>>
>>> OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
>>> OIM $845/32  $   38.27
>>> Splitter $900/32  $   39.43
>>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 *
>>>
>>>
>>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 *
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and
>>> a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.
>>>
>>>
>>> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62
>>> per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for
>>> electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But,
>>> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we
>>> are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure
>>> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any
>>> type of major upgrade for several years.
>>>
>>> But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Stefan Englhardt]

At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon 
arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may give a 
real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at smaller Channels. 
They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper than 450m so you could 
install a 360 degree cluster which you might densify at the direction where 
most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you could aggregate them to 10GE and feed 
them with a Licensed gear right up there. You only need to bring 48V DC up to 
the tower.


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
> 
> I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
> 
> For greenfield? Probably not.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
>  wrote:
> > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
> > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs in the
> same frame.
> > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
> > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
> > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need
> > only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just another
> tool in the toolbox.
> >
> > On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> >>
> >> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan"
> >> :)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
> >>>
> >>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to
>  back frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
> 
>  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the
> > clients evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take
> > advantage of the MU-MIMO.
> >
> > we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is
> > 64qam).
> >
> > it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with
> > regular
> > 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would
> > need 3 APs each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
> >
> > win, win, win.
> >
> > but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
> >
> > 2 cents
> >
> > -sean
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds
> > 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients
> >> are short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.
> >>
> >> It's a niche of a niche.
> >>
> >> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all,
> >> I'm just saying it's not the second coming like people make it
> >> out to be.)
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take
> >>> a chill pill.
> >>>
> >>> I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world
> >>> environment, earning me real world dollars and conserving much
> >>> needed spectrum.
> >>>
> >>> It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right
> >>> conditions the 450m delivers.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers bud
> >>>
> >>> -sean
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so
>  reduce that down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)
> 
>  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds
>  
>  wrote:
> >
> > Let's break this down a bit.
> >
> > Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
> > *shakes head*
> >
> > Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread
> > apart (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into
> > almost the same timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one
> > client that ends up in the same window as other clients
> > reduces the overall capacity of the AP (like in many other
> > situations). It can, in some situations, lead to cumulative
> > transfer windows where overall throughput ends up getting
> > reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up
> > taking a hit in 

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.

For greenfield? Probably not.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup  wrote:
> One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the throughput
> based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs in the same frame.
> But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right conditions. And
> you don't have to visit a single customer site. And instead of pointing 3x
> 20MHz channels the same direction, you need only one. Plus there's 30 and
> 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just another tool in the toolbox.
>
> On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan" :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
>>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
>>>
>>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:

 If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to back
 frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...

 On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the clients
> evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take advantage of the
> MU-MIMO.
>
> we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is
> 64qam).
>
> it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with
> regular
> 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would need 3
> APs
> each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
>
> win, win, win.
>
> but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -sean
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients are
>> short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.
>>
>> It's a niche of a niche.
>>
>> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all, I'm
>> just saying it's not the second coming like people make it out to be.)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take a
>>> chill
>>> pill.
>>>
>>> I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world
>>> environment,
>>> earning me real world dollars and conserving much needed spectrum.
>>>
>>> It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right
>>> conditions
>>> the 450m delivers.
>>>
>>> Cheers bud
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:

 Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce
 that
 down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)

 On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds
 
 wrote:
>
> Let's break this down a bit.
>
> Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
> *shakes head*
>
> Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
> (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
> timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in
> the
> same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the
> AP
> (like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead
> to
> cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up
> getting
> reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking
> a
> hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
> even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
> costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
> elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
> system like this... so only decent in very dense situations.
> That's a
> unique niche.
>
> So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
> (450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).
>
> 30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually
> streaming.
> Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
> gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
> most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous.
> Let's
> take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume
>