[agi] How long until human-level AI?

Our paper How long until human-level AI? Results from an expert assessment (based on a survey done at AGI-09) was finally accepted for publication, in the journal Technological Forecasting Social Change ... See the preprint at http://sethbaum.com/ac/fc_AI-Experts.html -- Ben Goertzel -- Ben

[agi] Video of talk I gave yesterday about Cosmism

Hi all, I gave a talk in Teleplace yesterday, about Cosmist philosophy and future technology. A video of the talk is here: http://telexlr8.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/ben-goertzel-on-the-cosmist-manifesto-in-teleplace-september-12/ I also put my practice version of the talk, that I did before

[agi] I'm giving a talk on Cosmist philosophy (and related advanced technology) in the Teleplace virtual world...

and more focused on presentation/collaboration...] Thanks much to the great Giulio Prisco for setting it up ;) Ben Goertzel on The Cosmist Manifesto in Teleplace, September 12, 10am PST http://telexlr8.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/reminder-ben-goertzel-on-the-cosmist-manifesto-in-teleplace-september

[agi] Fwd: [singularity] NEWS: Max More is Running for Board of Humanity+

://www.natasha.cc/ (If you have any questions, please email me off list.) *singularity* | Archiveshttps://www.listbox.com/member/archive/11983/=now https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/11983/ | Modifyhttps://www.listbox.com/member/?;Your Subscription http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel

Re: [agi] Anyone going to the Singularity Summit?

We have those fruit fly populations also, and analysis of their genetics refutes your claim ;p ... Where? References? The last I looked, all they had in addition to their long-lived groups were uncontrolled control groups, and no groups bred only from young flies. Michael rose's UCI lab

Re: [agi] Anyone going to the Singularity Summit?

the genomics of their long-lived superflies, so part of my message is about the virtuous cycle achievable via synergizing AI data analysis with carefully-designed experimental evolution of model organisms... -- Ben On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield steve.richfi...@gmail.comwrote: Ben

Re: [agi] Anyone going to the Singularity Summit?

, and analysis of their genetics refutes your claim ;p ... ben g --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id

Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2

, vaguely human-like AGI I.e. I don't agree that solving vision and the vision-cognition bridge is *such* a huge part of AGI, though it's certainly a nontrivial percentage... -- Ben G On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 4:44 PM, David Jones davidher...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Guys, I've been working

Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote: Ben: I don't agree that solving vision and the vision-cognition bridge is *such* a huge part of AGI, though it's certainly a nontrivial percentage Presumably because you don't envisage your AGI/computer

Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2

feedback connections (top-down) among the modules? thx ben --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id

Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2

for AGI, but I think they're only a moderate portion of the problem, and not the hardest part... Which is? *From:* Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org *Sent:* Monday, August 09, 2010 4:57 PM *To:* agi agi@v2.listbox.com *Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2 On Mon, Aug 9, 2010

Re: [agi] Anyone going to the Singularity Summit?

I'm speaking there, on Ai applied to life extension; and participating in a panel discussion on narrow vs. general AI... ben g On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:01 PM, David Jones davidher...@gmail.com wrote: I've decided to go. I was wondering if anyone else here is. Dave *agi* | Archives https

Re: [agi] Help requested: Making a list of (non-robotic) AGI low hanging fruit apps

His request explicitly said he is focusing on voice and vision. I think that is enough specificity... ben On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 9:22 PM, Matt Mahoney matmaho...@yahoo.com wrote: Wouldn't it depend on the other researcher's area of expertise? -- Matt Mahoney, matmaho...@yahoo.com

[agi] Brief mention of bio-AGI in the Boston Globe...

/alerts?hl=engl=source=alertsmailcd=sfIgD21-SMccad=:s1:f2:v0:d1:another alert. Managehttp://www.google.com/alerts/manage?hl=engl=source=alertsmailcd=sfIgD21-SMccad=:s1:f2:v0:d1:your alerts. -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC CTO, Genescient Corp Vice Chairman, Humanity+ Advisor

Re: [agi] AGI Alife

, and letting them advance and evolve further, would be an awesome experiment, though ;) -- Ben G On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:23 PM, Linas Vepstas linasveps...@gmail.com wrote: I saw the following post from Antonio Alberti, on the linked-in discussion group: ALife and AGI Dear group participants

Re: [agi] Pretty worldchanging

by and less effective without the Net. That's world-changing... ;-) ... Learning about AGI via online resources may not improve your school grades any, because AGI knowledge isn't tested much in school. But students learning about AGI online could change the world... -- Ben G *agi

[agi] Cosmist Manifesto available via Amazon.com

Hi all, My new futurist tract The Cosmist Manifesto is now available on Amazon.com, courtesy of Humanity+ Press: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0984609709/ Thanks to Natasha Vita-More for the beautiful cover, and David Orban for helping make the book happen... -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD

[agi] Re: Cosmist Manifesto available via Amazon.com

Oh... and, a PDF version of the book is also available for free at http://goertzel.org/CosmistManifesto_July2010.pdf ;-) ... ben On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: Hi all, My new futurist tract The Cosmist Manifesto is now available on Amazon.com

Re: [agi] What is the smallest set of operations that can potentially define everything and how do you combine them ?

question IMO is what set of operators and structures has the property that the compact expressions tend to be the ones that are useful for survival and problem-solving in the environments that humans and human- like AIs need to cope with... -- Ben G On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Michael Swan ms

Re: [agi] Solomonoff Induction is Not Universal and Probability is not Prediction

, it is not the sort of thing that is useful for AGI in the first place. I agree with these two statements -- ben G --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription

Re: [agi] Solomonoff Induction is Not Universal and Probability is not Prediction

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Matt Mahoney matmaho...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Goertzel wrote: Secondly, since it cannot be computed it is useless. Third, it is not the sort of thing that is useful for AGI in the first place. I agree with these two statements The principle of Solomonoff

Re: [agi] Solomonoff Induction is Not Universal and Probability is not Prediction

of that paper do you think is wrong? thx ben On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Jim Bromer jimbro...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: If you're going to argue against a mathematical theorem, your argument must be mathematical not verbal. Please

Re: [agi] Solomonoff Induction is Not Universal and Probability is not Prediction

or inference that works for everything! Dave On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: To make this discussion more concrete, please look at http://www.vetta.org/documents/disSol.pdf Section 2.5 gives a simple version of the proof that Solomonoff induction

[agi] My Sing. U lecture on AGI blogged at Wired UK:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-07/9/singularity-university-robotics-ai --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription:

Re: [agi] My Sing. U lecture on AGI blogged at Wired UK:

:46 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-07/9/singularity-university-robotics-ai --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303

[agi] New KurzweilAI.net site... with my silly article sillier chatbot ;-p ;) ....

;-) -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC CTO, Genescient Corp Vice Chairman, Humanity+ Advisor, Singularity University and Singularity Institute External Research Professor, Xiamen University, China b...@goertzel.org “When nothing seems to help, I go look

Re: [agi] A Primary Distinction for an AGI

Interestingly, the world's best AI poker program *does* work by applying sophisticated Bayesian probability analysis to social modeling... http://pokerparadime.com/ -- Ben On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote: There would be an insidious problem

Re: [agi] Huge Progress on the Core of AGI

maximum reward So yeah, this is the right idea... and your simple examples of it are nice... Eric Baum's whole book What Is thought is sort of an explanation of this idea in a human biology and psychology and AI context ;) ben On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:31 AM, David Jones davidher...@gmail.com wrote

Re: [agi] Huge Progress on the Core of AGI

a predictive module (using an Occam heuristic, as you suggest) corresponding to each of a host of observed spatiotemporal regions, with modules corresponding to larger regions occurring higher up in the hierarchy... ben On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 10:09 AM, David Jones davidher...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks

Re: [agi] Huge Progress on the Core of AGI

To put it more succinctly, Dave Ben Hutter are doing the wrong subject - narrow AI. Looking for the one right prediction/ explanation is narrow AI. Being able to generate more and more possible explanations, wh. could all be valid, is AGI. The former is rational, uniform thinking

Re: [agi] Huge Progress on the Core of AGI

... also without teaching us much of anything about intelligence... Pong is almost surely a toy domain ... ben g On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote: Try ping-pong - as per the computer game. Just a line (/bat) and a square(/ball) representing your

Re: [agi] Hutter - A fundamental misdirection?

directly and to aid with inferential extrapolations... So I agree with most of your points, but I don't find them original except in phrasing ;) ... ben On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Steve Richfield steve.richfi...@gmail.comwrote: Ben, et al, *I think I may finally grok the fundamental

Re: [agi] Reward function vs utility

You can always build the utility function into the assumed universal Turing machine underlying the definition of algorithmic information... I guess this will improve learning rate by some additive constant, in the long run ;) ben On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Joshua Fox joshuat...@gmail.com

Re: [agi] Hutter - A fundamental misdirection?

Steve, I know what dimensional analysis is, but it would be great if you could give an example of how it's useful for everyday commonsense reasoning such as, say, a service robot might need to do to figure out how to clean a house... thx ben On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Steve Richfield

Re: [agi] Huge Progress on the Core of AGI

Even with the variations you mention, I remain highly confident this is not a difficult problem for narrow-AI machine learning methods -- Ben G On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote: I think you're thinking of a plodding limited-movement classic Pong line

Re: [agi] Hutter - A fundamental misdirection?

On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Steve Richfield steve.richfi...@gmail.comwrote: Ben, On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: know what dimensional analysis is, but it would be great if you could give an example of how it's useful for everyday commonsense

Re: [agi] The problem with AGI per Sloman

Yes... the idea underlying Sloman's quote is why the interdisciplinary field of cognitive science was invented a few decades ago... ben g On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Jim Bromer jimbro...@gmail.com wrote: Both of you are wrong. (Where did that quote come from by the way. What year did

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

, 2009 at 5:56 AM, William Pearson wil.pear...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/1/9 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: This is an attempt to articulate a virtual world infrastructure that will be adequate for the development of human-level AGI http://www.goertzel.org/papers/BlocksNBeadsWorld.pdf goertzel.org

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

of the BlocksNBeadsWorld, and I think it's an acceptable one... ben --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org This is no place to stop -- half way between ape and angel -- Benjamin Disraeli --- agi Archives: https

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

... On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Philip Hunt cabala...@googlemail.com wrote: 2009/1/9 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: Hi all, I intend to submit the following paper to JAGI shortly, but I figured I'd run it past you folks on this list first, and incorporate any useful feedback into the draft I

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

Matt, The complexity of a simulated environment is tricky to estimate, if the environment contains complex self-organizing dynamics, random number generation, and complex human interactions ... ben On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Matt Mahoney matmaho...@yahoo.com wrote: My response to Ben's

Re: [agi] [WAS The Smushaby] The Logic of Creativity

it. Adequate technology for implementing AGI has only very recently become available (or if I'm overoptimistic, may not yet quite be available), and working out the details of complex AGI designs via a combination of theory and experimentation just takes time and hard work. ben g On Tue, Jan 13, 2009

[agi] initial reaction to A2I2's call center product

an adaptive learning based approach rather than an approach based on extensive hand-coding of linguistic resources, which is interesting, and vaguely reminiscent of Robert Hecht-Nielsen's neural net approach to language processing. ben g --- agi Archives

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org This is no place to stop -- half way between

[agi] time-sensitive issue: voting members sought to participate in upcoming election for H+ (World Transhumanist Association)

at the URL: Sonia Arrison, George Dvorsky, Patri Friedman, Ben Goertzel (big surprise), Stephane Gounari, Todd Huffman, Jonas Lamis, and Mike LaTorra. Sorry for the short notice, but if you see this in time and have the interest, I hope you'll become a member by tonight so that you can vote next

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

in the real world. My question to you is: What important cognitive ability is drastically more easily developable given a world that contains a distinction between fluids and various sorts of bead-conglomerates? -- Ben G --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

like a quite fun exercise, but I just didn't get to it yet... actually it would be sensible to do this together with some nice visualization... ben --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member

[agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

virtual world infrastructure an effective AGI preschool would minimally require. thx Ben G -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx --- agi

Re: [agi] What Must a World Be That a Humanlike Intelligence May Develop In It?

It's actually mentioned there, though not emphasized... there's a section on senses... ben g On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Eric Burton brila...@gmail.com wrote: Goertzel this is an interesting line of investigation. What about in world sound perception? On 1/9/09, Ben Goertzel b

Re: [agi] The Smushaby of Flatway.

If it was just a matter of writing the code, then it would have been done 50 years ago. if proving Fermat's Last theorem was just a matter of doing math, it would have been done 150 years ago ;-p obviously, all hard problems that can be solved have already been solved... ???

Re: [agi] Hypercomputation and AGI

wil.pear...@gmail.comwrote: 2008/12/29 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: Hi, I expanded a previous blog entry of mine on hypercomputation and AGI into a conference paper on the topic ... here is a rough draft, on which I'd appreciate commentary from anyone who's knowledgeable

Re: [agi] Hypercomputation and AGI

I'm heading off on a vacation for 4-5 days [with occasional email access] and will probably respond to this when i get back ... just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring the question ;-) ben On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 1:26 PM, William Pearson wil.pear...@gmail.comwrote: 2008/12/30 Ben Goertzel

[agi] Hypercomputation and AGI

, imitation or intuition... -- Ben G -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive

Re: [agi] Hypercomputation and AGI

... -- ben g On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 4:18 PM, J. Andrew Rogers and...@ceruleansystems.com wrote: On Dec 29, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Ben Goertzel wrote: I expanded a previous blog entry of mine on hypercomputation and AGI into a conference paper on the topic ... here is a rough draft, on which I'd

Re: [agi] Universal intelligence test benchmark

Consciousness of X is: the idea or feeling that X is correlated with Consciousness of X ;-) ben g On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Matt Mahoney matmaho...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Mon, 12/29/08, John G. Rose johnr...@polyplexic.com wrote: What does consciousness have to do with the rest

Re: Real-world vs. universal prior (was Re: [agi] Universal intelligence test benchmark)

David, Good point... I'll revise the essay to account for it... The truth is, we just don't know -- but in taking the virtual world approach to AGI, we're very much **hoping** that a subset of human everyday physical reality is good enough. .. ben On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 6:46 AM, David Hart dh

Re: Real-world vs. universal prior (was Re: [agi] Universal intelligence test benchmark)

://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.com/2008/12/subtle-structure-of-physical-world.html -- Ben On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: David, Good point... I'll revise the essay to account for it... The truth is, we just don't know -- but in taking the virtual world

Re: Real-world vs. universal prior (was Re: [agi] Universal intelligence test benchmark)

-world preschool, with enough fidelity that AIs can carry out the same learning tasks that human kids carry out in a real preschool. On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote: Ben: in taking the virtual world approach to AGI, we're very much **hoping

Re: [agi] Universal intelligence test benchmark

of Legg's thesis, and Hutter's new work on Feature Bayesian Networks and so forth), but nothing particularly AGI-ish. But personally I wouldn't be harshly dismissive of this research direction, even though it's not the one I've chosen. -- Ben G On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Richard Loosemore r

Re: [agi] Universal intelligence test benchmark

that interact with the real physical and social world, or the most accurate simulations of it we can build. -- Ben G --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your

Re: Real-world vs. universal prior (was Re: [agi] Universal intelligence test benchmark)

... or in the subsets of the physical universe that humans typically deal with... ben --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com

Re: [agi] Introducing Steve's Theory of Everything in cognition.

in the 70's and 80's... -- Ben G --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b

Re: [agi] SyNAPSE might not be a joke ---- was ---- Building a machine that can learn from experience

and your own I find his speculative ideas more agreeable than Tononi's, myself... thx ben g On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.comwrote: Ed Porter wrote: Richard, Please describe some of the counterexamples, that you can easily come up with, that make a mockery

Re: [agi] SyNAPSE might not be a joke ---- was ---- Building a machine that can learn from experience

of the theoretical speculations one reads in the neuroscience literature... and I can't really think of any recent neuroscience data that refutes any of his key hypotheses... On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.comwrote: Ben Goertzel wrote: Richard, I'm curious what you

Re: [agi] SyNAPSE might not be a joke ---- was ---- Building a machine that can learn from experience

. AGI systems ultimately are physical systems, and not necessarily less scientifically interesting than human physical systems. -- Ben G On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Colin Hales c.ha...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.auwrote: Ed, Comments interspersed below: Ed Porter wrote: Colin, Here are my

Re: [agi] Relevance of SE in AGI

to engineering when one should be focusing on science is a risk, but so is ignoring engineering when one wants to build a scalable, extensible system... ben g On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.comwrote: Valentina Poletti wrote: I have a question for you AGIers.. from your

Re: [agi] SyNAPSE might not be a joke ---- was ---- Building a machine that can learn from experience

simulation guys (Steve Grossberg for example) showed up alongside the AI guys ... probably because biology was in the title ;-) ... but still it was strongly AI-focused rather than brain-simulation focused. -- Ben G --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com

Re: [agi] SyNAPSE might not be a joke ---- was ---- Building a machine that can learn from experience

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Ed Porter ewpor...@msn.com wrote: Ben, Thanks for the reply. It is a shame the brain science people aren't more interested in AGI. It seems to me there is a lot of potential for cross-fertilization. I don't think many of these folks have

Re: [agi] SyNAPSE might not be a joke ---- was ---- Building a machine that can learn from experience

qualitatively but not precisely -- Ben G On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Colin Hales c.ha...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.auwrote: Ed, I wasn't trying to justify or promote a 'divide'. The two worlds must be better off in collaboration, surely? I merely point out that there are fundamental limits

Re: [agi] SyNAPSE might not be a joke ---- was ---- Building a machine that can learn from experience

unspecified. Getting into the nitty-gritty a little more: until we understand way, way more about how brain dynamics and structures lead to thoughts, and/or have way, way better brain imaging data, we're not going to be able to build a thinking machine via brain simulation. -- Ben G On Sat, Dec 20, 2008

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Derek Zahn derekz...@msn.com wrote: Ben: Right. My intuition is that we don't need to simulate the dynamics of fluids, powders and the like in our virtual world to make it adequate for teaching AGIs humanlike, human-level AGI. But this could be wrong

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

-simulator tech. ben --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

the ability to run 1000s of tests in parallel without paying humongous bucks for a fleet of robots... ben On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Derek Zahn derekz...@msn.com wrote: Oh, and because I am interested in the potential of high-fidelity physical simulation as a basis for AI research, I did spend

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Philip Hunt cabala...@googlemail.comwrote: 2008/12/20 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: Well, it's completely obvious to me, based on my knowledge of virtual worlds and robotics, that building a high quality virtual world is orders of magnitude easier

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

and odd problem... ben On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Philip Hunt cabala...@googlemail.comwrote: 2008/12/20 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: It doesn't have to be humanoid ... but apart from rolling instead of walking, I don't see any really significant simplifications obtainable from

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

that AI researchers spend all day staring at screens and ignoring their physical bodies and surroundings?? ;-) ben g --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your

Re: [agi] Creativity and Rationality (was: Re: Should I get a PhD?)

, Selmer Bringjord (an AI expert, not on this list) seems to share a fair number of Mike's ideas, but discussions with him are less frustrating because rather than wasting time on misunderstandings, basics and terminology, one cuts VERY QUICKLY to the deep points of conceptual disagreement ben g

Re: [agi] Creativity and Rationality (was: Re: Should I get a PhD?)

colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a troll because I feel he

Re: [agi] Creativity and Rationality (was: Re: Should I get a PhD?)

sniped off-topic threads a handful of times, but by and large I guess I've decided to leave this list a free for all ... Later this year I'll likely be involved with the launch of a forum site oriented toward more structured AGI discussions... ben --- agi

[agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

be of interest for discussion... Simple stuff, really; but still, the sort of thing that not enough attention has been paid to What I'd like to see is a really nicely implemented virtual world preschool for AIs ... though of course building such a thing will be a lot of work for someone... ben

Re: [agi] Building a machine that can learn from experience

easily extends to normal problem solving behaviour of the kind humans have. Hence 'general intelligence'. makes no sense to me. I haven't seen you present any meaningful argument that scientific behavior depends on extrasensory phenomena. Do you have such an argument? Ben

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

beyond the scope of contemporary AGI designs (at least according to some experts, like me), which is what makes it more interesting in the present moment... ben g -- Ben G On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Philip Hunt cabala...@googlemail.comwrote: 2008/12/19 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: What

Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]

And when a Chinese doesn't answer a question, it usually means No ;-) Relatedly, I am discussing with some US gov't people a potential project involving customizing an AI reasoning system to emulate the different inferential judgments of people from different cultures... ben On Fri, Dec 19

Re: [agi] Building a machine that can learn from experience

more strongly, because I'm rather tolerant of wackiness of most sorts... So, I must suggest that if you want folks to take your ideas seriously, you should try to find different ways of expressing them... ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Colin Hales c.ha...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.auwrote: Mike

Re: [agi] Building a machine that can learn from experience

at that level ... *then*, if we simulate the brain at that level on a computer and it fails to be intelligent, there will be *empirical* reason to seriously consider the hypothesis that computer-based AGI is impossible. Not until then. -- Ben G --- agi

Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]

in this case, I reckon the cultural factors are kind of irrelevant ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: Richard and Ben, If you think I, as a Chinese, have overreacted to Mike Tintner's writing style, and this is just a culture difference, please let me

Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: Well, I think you might have overreacted to his writing style for cultural reasons However, I also think that -- to be Americanly blunt -- you're very unlikely to learn anything from conversing with Mike, On AGI

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

would be that all the basic tasks required in an AGI Preschool could be sensibly formulated using only this level of physics simulation, in a way that doesn't involve cheating... (but the proper contextualization formalization of doesn't involve cheating would require some thought) ben On Fri

Re: [agi] Building a machine that can learn from experience

and consciousness can't arise in a computer program There is a lot that we don't know about the world! But, concluding from this general ignorance that AGI is impossible in digital computers seems wholly unjustified to me. -- Ben G --- agi Archives: https

Re: [agi] Building a machine that can learn from experience

computer programs. The nonalgorithmic aspects are gonna be there anyway, we don't need to build them into our programs;-) But I can't prove that scientifically and I never will be able to... -- Ben G --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:42 PM, Philip Hunt cabala...@googlemail.comwrote: 2008/12/20 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: I.e., I doubt one needs serious fluid dynamics in one's simulation ... I doubt one needs bodies with detailed internal musculature ... but I think one does need basic

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

comparable learning experience??? ben Evolution has equipped humans (and other animals) have a good intuitive understanding of many of the physical realities of our world. The real world is not just slippery in the physical sense, it's slippery in the non-literal sense too. For example, I

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

physics... ben g On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Philip Hunt cabala...@googlemail.comwrote: 2008/12/20 Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: 3. to provide a toy domain for the AI to think about and become proficient in. Not just to become proficient in the domain, but become proficient

Re: [agi] Building a machine that can learn from experience

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:10 PM, J. Andrew Rogers and...@ceruleansystems.com wrote: On Dec 19, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Ben Goertzel wrote: The problem is that **there is no way for science to ever establish the existence of a nonalgorithmic process**, because science deals only with finite sets

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org: Baking a cake is a harder example. An AGI trained in a virtual world could certainly follow a recipe to make a passable cake. But it would never learn to be a **really good** baker in the virtual world, unless the virtual world were fabulously

Re: [agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

deaf, I suppose ;-) On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: Ahhh... ***that's*** why everyone always hates my cakes!!! I never realized you were supposed to **taste** the stuff ... I thought it was just supposed to look funky after you throw it in somebody's

Re: [agi] Building a machine that can learn from experience

, but you should acknowledge that's what you're doing... ben g --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

or demonstrated results, so can AGI ... and the difference is really just one of culture, politics and mass psychology or a combination of the two... ben On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:02 AM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote: Ben: Research grants for AGI are very hard to come

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

applications that are not heavily based on transfer learning but rather focused on supplying one domain-specific functionality (which has not yet been disclosed ;-) ben On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote: Ben, For the record yet again, I certainly believe

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