Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Sander Hoentjen
On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 18:08 -0700, ian douglas wrote: Robert Taylor wrote: If you want to compare the total cost, compare the total cost of buying the new iphone UNLOCKED at retail cost (you can't) plus the data package and THEN we can talk. But the consumer isn't asked to pay the

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Robert Taylor
ian douglas wrote: Robert Taylor wrote: I'm not dropping this. You still have it wrong. Hi Robert, I'm not trying to win the overall argument, I just want you to acknowledge that my position is as valid as your own, as I do for your position in point #2 below. Ian, I acknowledge

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Andy Powell
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 04:47, rakshat hooja wrote: I don't know where my NDA stands on this. (I dont have the signed copy back yet and I guess i wont be posting any more on this once I get it:-) I discussed with a carrier in India and they were as the first offer willing to offer

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Sander Hoentjen wrote: compare the price difference for a 24month contract with or without an iPhone (16GB) (Yes this is not the new one, but i suspect it will not differ too much). Price for 24 mo with iPhone: 719,- eur with HTC Touch Diamond (just for comparison): 541,- without phone:

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear - what market

2008-06-11 Thread Kalle Happonen
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Robert Taylor wrote: On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread rakshat hooja
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 11 June 2008 04:47, rakshat hooja wrote: I don't know where my NDA stands on this. (I dont have the signed copy back yet and I guess i wont be posting any more on this once I get it:-) I discussed

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Peter Nijs
I pay my carrier €50 per year on avarage. And buying an OM will not increase that amount. Peter On Tuesday 10 June 2008 19:56:44 ian douglas write: Robert Taylor wrote: You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year contract minimum. Granted, the Apple and ATT

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Jano
Andy Powell wrote: On Wednesday 11 June 2008 04:47, rakshat hooja wrote: I don't know where my NDA stands on this. (I dont have the signed copy back yet and I guess i wont be posting any more on this once I get it:-) I discussed with a carrier in India and they were as the first offer

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Andy Powell
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 09:51, rakshat hooja wrote: On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like you got stuck with the crappy US model contract. AFAIK it's only the USA (and now India) where you pay to *receive* calls as well as make them. Perhaps

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Shawn
, June 10, 2008 4:21:39 PM Subject: Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price Robert Taylor wrote: Please, compare equal things. Why are you posting nonsense here? Rob, I'm not the one who posted the original article, and I take offense to you saying that my thoughts are 'nonsense' -- that sort

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread robert lazarski
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My question is this: say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to ATT as my provider (as I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest minute/plans?

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Ben Burdette
I plan on using my phone in VOIP mode as often as possible. Since I use my phone most often at home, I'm hoping I'll be able to use far fewer minutes per month than normal. That's when the pay-as-you-go SIM plan starts to really pay off - I don't have to pay for an artificial minimum of

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Ortwin Regel
Your calculations may well be correct for the awful situation in the USA. In other parts of the world, this is drastically different! Please keep that in mind. Ortwin On 6/11/08, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Taylor wrote: Just compare equal things. We'll have to agree to

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-11 Thread Bastian Muck
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You are totally right.At T-Mobile Germany you can reserve an iPhone 3G. You can only get it with an contract thant is far more expensive than comparable contracts of T-Mobile Germany. The cheapest (24 month-) contract Complete S is 5 € more

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Stroller
On 11 Jun 2008, at 13:55, Shawn wrote: My question is this: say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to ATT as my provider (as I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest minute/plans? They may do it

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Shawn wrote: say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to ATT as my provider (as I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract agreement anyway? It varies, depending on who you talk to. They typically need to lock you into a 2-year contract if they're

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Ben Burdette wrote: Also, I hear that ATT is charging 10$ more per month for iphones over their normal plan fees, and even more if you are a business user. They raised the rate in general, even without picking a phone at attwireless.com, you can still see the basic unlimited data with

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Jorge . wrote: Hello everyone, I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone. Everyone knows their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to buy an openmoko is the freedom. But the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will cost

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote: You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year contract minimum. Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost, because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400 ($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Federico Lorenzi
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone. Everyone knows their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to buy an openmoko is the freedom. But the new iPhone 3G

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Federico Lorenzi wrote: The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized through a 2 year ATT contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract. ... and per my last Email, the lack of subsidies for the Freerunner, where you

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
What the hell?! Seems like a lot of people STILL don't get it: The iPhone does NOT cost 199$. It's a marketing lie. The actual price is 199$ + a two year contract. That makes it probably closer to 1000$. The Neo is still very very cheap compared to that, especially considering how few Neo phones

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me the price advantage over an

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Dave O'Connor
You've forgotten about the extra grand and a half in contract charges. (that's just in the US, I hate to think what they'll be like here in Canada). Seems inexpensive to me :) On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, Jorge . wrote: Hello everyone, I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone.

RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Jorge .
*sigh* The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized through a 2 year ATT contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract. Just look Ebay, amazon, etc... you can buy unlocked iPhones for almost the price they have

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Ortwin Regel wrote: There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me the

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread john
Yeh it is all relative to your country and usage pattern. In the UK you can get a prepaid SIM with data capped at £1 per day. I don't need a contract (I don't make many calls/sms) so the cost of the Freerunner is a lot more attractive to me! Especially at it seems Apple will now make you activate

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Lally Singh
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no monthly fees at all. Much

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Jorge . wrote: Just look Ebay, amazon, etc... you can buy unlocked iPhones for almost the price they have with ATT, in fact there is no ATT in my country, an i could buy one on many shops in the downtown (dont misunderstand me, i want the FreeRunner!!). I am sure it will happen again

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Federico Lorenzi
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *sigh* The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized through a 2 year ATT contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract. Just look Ebay, amazon, etc...

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Lowell Higley
I think what Ian is trying to say is that contract or not, you still have to pay for your phone service and data service. So if you spend US$50/mo on a data plan, it does come out to be more expensive with the FreeRunner if and *only if* you plan to use the phone for two years. if you plan on

RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Jorge .
Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost, because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400 ($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that you'd spend with ATT also helps cover the hidden cost of the hardware. No doubt, but you can buy unlocked

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Lowell Higley wrote: I think what Ian is trying to say is that contract or not, you still have to pay for your phone service and data service. Exactly. Whether you get the iPhone, a Freerunner, a Nokia, a Samsung, whatever... you still need to pay for the cellular service. Yes, it's cheaper

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 13:15 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote: In this case, the iPhone is way more expensive than an iPhone. ^^^ I always knew there is some conspiracy going on with Apple ;-p

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Greg Bonett
... and per my last Email, the lack of subsidies for the Freerunner, where you still need a voice/data contract, actually costs more. But the extra cost is worth the freedom of doing whatever I want with my Freerunner. -id Don't forget you've always got the option to use the Freerunner

RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread Jorge .
Hello, This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order: 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the good reasons to buy one :) 2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract, the iPhone 3G will be more expensive at

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Jorge . wrote: No doubt, but you can buy unlocked iPhones on many places, including internet and they dont cost $960 Thats ONLY because you can buy an iPhone right now WITHOUT a contract. You won't be getting the same phoen pricing with the new iPhone, that is guaranteed - to break a

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Jorge . wrote: No doubt, but you can buy unlocked iPhones on many places, including internet and they dont cost $960 You're right, an unlocked iPhone will likely cost more than $199 (for the 8GB model), but you still need to have the data/voice plan. If *all* you're comparing is the cost of

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
ian douglas wrote: Exactly. Whether you get the iPhone, a Freerunner, a Nokia, a Samsung, whatever... you still need to pay for the cellular service. Yes, it's cheaper if you buy pay-as-you-go service, and yes, if you buy the 'locked' iPhone (retail box from ATT) you *must* buy into a

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Greg Bonett wrote: Don't forget you've always got the option to use the Freerunner without a voice/data plan at all if you don't mind only using VOIP in Wifi networks. Then its a bargain! Excellent point, Greg! (I don't recall if the new iPhone has WiFi to do VoIP calls)

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread john
Are you sure about that? According to Engadget [1] you will have to activate the contract in shop which seems to suggest a pretty bum deal if you plan on then unlocking it and selling it at $200. If you do I will buy one from you at that price ;)

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote: Please, compare equal things. Why are you posting nonsense here? Rob, I'm not the one who posted the original article, and I take offense to you saying that my thoughts are 'nonsense' -- that sort of attitude isn't helpful to anybody. In a previous post, you said: The

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Jorge . wrote: Hello, This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order: Okay. 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the good reasons to buy one :) Right! 2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract,

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread john
As someone who owns an unlocked iPhone I understand how 3) works on the old iPhone. What is not clear is the deal on the new iPhone. The reports are that the person who buys it will have to enter the contract when they buy it. Note, this is different than 3). The reality is we don't know for sure

RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Dave O'Connor
The software is Free, the hardware is Free but not in the beer sense. Look, if om don't make enough money there is no gta04. It has shortcomings but it's still much better an idea than the iphone. Your software will be free, no 30% cut for developers to go to apple. Your abilities to use the

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Lowell Higley
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A $600 SUBSIDIZED phone on a 2 year contract ($200 up front cost to subscriber) VS a $200 moko UNSUBSIDIZED phone PLUS a 2 year contract. Of course they are bloody the same price up front, THE MOKO ISN'T SUBSIDIZED.

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
ian douglas wrote: alking about what's subsidized and what's not. We're comparing how much money have I paid out of my pocket after two years to compare a 2-year contract requirement versus owning a Freerunner. Well yes we are. If the moko was subsidized it would effectively be free.

RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Jorge .
:07 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price Are you sure about that? According to Engadget [1] you will have to activate the contract in shop which seems to suggest a pretty bum deal if you plan on then unlocking

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Michael T. Dean
On 06/10/2008 06:21 PM, ian douglas wrote: While I'm not trying to encourage any bitter feelings whatsoever, I'm curious how you calculated the iPhone costs twice as much as the Freerunner when you look at the bottom line of how many dollars you've spent after two years. Please elaborate on

RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread Jorge .
Robert Taylor wrote: On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow you to use it with any operator was

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Michael T. Dean wrote: On 06/10/2008 06:21 PM, ian douglas wrote: While I'm not trying to encourage any bitter feelings whatsoever, I'm curious how you calculated the iPhone costs twice as much as the Freerunner when you look at the bottom line of how many dollars you've spent after

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Piotr Duda
ian douglas pisze: [...] For example, I pay $39.99/month for 450 daytime minutes and 5000 evening/weekend minutes every month. I pay an additional $39.99 per month for an unlimited data plan. My total monthly cost is $79.98 plus taxes and fees, so let's round it up to $90 per month. Over

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jorge . wrote: Hello, This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order: Okay. 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the good reasons to buy one :)

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:57:04 -0700 Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: ian douglas wrote: Exactly. Whether you get the iPhone, a Freerunner, a Nokia, a Samsung, whatever... you still need to pay for the cellular service. Yes, it's cheaper if you buy pay-as-you-go service, and

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:56:44 -0700 ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Robert Taylor wrote: You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year contract minimum. Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost, because of the $960 ($40/mo

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote: Just compare equal things. We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of equal. Hear me out: By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner, and using ATT for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over two years no matter which

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Robert Taylor wrote: On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. The first iPhone was released june

RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Jorge .
ian douglas wrote: By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner, and using ATT for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over two years no matter which phone they buy. Jorge's original posting in this thread said the following: the new iPhone 3G

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
ian douglas wrote: Robert Taylor wrote: Just compare equal things. We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of equal. Hear me out: Hi! :-) I really do mean well but I'm not dropping this. You still have it wrong. If the moko was subsidized out of pocket expense

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was assumed that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore the risk by losing

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread rakshat hooja
No, it won't make the Moko more expensive. You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year contract minimum. The iPhone is AT LEAST twice as expensive as the Moko. In other words, if the Moko came with a 2 year contract it would basically be free. Please

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract unless you buy another phone

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread Robert Taylor
Robert Taylor wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: Precisely. And if you want to quit your contract you will pay A FEE that will make your phone far more expensive than $600. I wish people would stop saying nonsense. It really doesn't matter if you unlock the phone or

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote: I'm not dropping this. You still have it wrong. Hi Robert, I'm not trying to win the overall argument, I just want you to acknowledge that my position is as valid as your own, as I do for your position in point #2 below. Here's my thinking, please feel free to agree or

Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Joe Pfeiffer
Robert Taylor writes: If the moko was subsidized out of pocket expense would be less because the moko would be cheaper. Well, yes, but when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it. So the economics (as I faced them)