On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 18:08 -0700, ian douglas wrote:
Robert Taylor wrote:
If you want to compare the total cost, compare the total cost of buying
the new iphone UNLOCKED at retail cost (you can't) plus the data package
and THEN we can talk.
But the consumer isn't asked to pay the
ian douglas wrote:
Robert Taylor wrote:
I'm not dropping this. You still have it wrong.
Hi Robert,
I'm not trying to win the overall argument, I just want you to
acknowledge that my position is as valid as your own, as I do for your
position in point #2 below.
Ian, I acknowledge
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 04:47, rakshat hooja wrote:
I don't know where my NDA stands on this. (I dont have the signed copy
back
yet and I guess i wont be posting any more on this once I get it:-) I
discussed with a carrier in India and they were as the first offer willing
to offer
Sander Hoentjen wrote:
compare the price difference for a 24month contract with or without an
iPhone (16GB) (Yes this is not the new one, but i suspect it will not
differ too much).
Price for 24 mo with iPhone: 719,- eur
with HTC Touch Diamond (just for comparison): 541,-
without phone:
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
Robert Taylor wrote:
On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract.
If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than
the $600 the phone is
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 04:47, rakshat hooja wrote:
I don't know where my NDA stands on this. (I dont have the signed copy
back
yet and I guess i wont be posting any more on this once I get it:-) I
discussed
I pay my carrier €50 per year on avarage. And buying an OM will not increase
that amount.
Peter
On Tuesday 10 June 2008 19:56:44 ian douglas write:
Robert Taylor wrote:
You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year
contract minimum.
Granted, the Apple and ATT
Andy Powell wrote:
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 04:47, rakshat hooja wrote:
I don't know where my NDA stands on this. (I dont have the signed copy
back
yet and I guess i wont be posting any more on this once I get it:-) I
discussed with a carrier in India and they were as the first offer
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 09:51, rakshat hooja wrote:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sounds like you got stuck with the crappy US model contract. AFAIK it's
only
the USA (and now India) where you pay to *receive* calls as well as make
them. Perhaps
, June 10, 2008 4:21:39 PM
Subject: Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Robert Taylor wrote:
Please, compare equal things.
Why are you posting nonsense here?
Rob, I'm not the one who posted the original article, and I take offense
to you saying that my thoughts are 'nonsense' -- that sort
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My question is this:
say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to ATT as my provider (as I
plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract
agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest minute/plans?
I plan on using my phone in VOIP mode as often as possible. Since I use
my phone most often at home, I'm hoping I'll be able to use far fewer
minutes per month than normal. That's when the pay-as-you-go SIM plan
starts to really pay off - I don't have to pay for an artificial minimum
of
Your calculations may well be correct for the awful situation in the
USA. In other parts of the world, this is drastically different!
Please keep that in mind.
Ortwin
On 6/11/08, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Robert Taylor wrote:
Just compare equal things.
We'll have to agree to
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Hash: SHA1
You are totally right.At T-Mobile Germany you can reserve an iPhone 3G.
You can only get it with an contract thant is far more expensive than
comparable contracts of T-Mobile Germany. The cheapest (24 month-)
contract Complete S is 5 € more
On 11 Jun 2008, at 13:55, Shawn wrote:
My question is this:
say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to ATT as my provider
(as I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a
contract agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest
minute/plans?
They may do it
Shawn wrote:
say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to ATT as my provider (as
I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract
agreement anyway?
It varies, depending on who you talk to.
They typically need to lock you into a 2-year contract if they're
Ben Burdette wrote:
Also, I hear that ATT is charging 10$ more per month for iphones over
their normal plan fees, and even more if you are a business user.
They raised the rate in general, even without picking a phone at
attwireless.com, you can still see the basic unlimited data with
Jorge . wrote:
Hello everyone,
I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone. Everyone knows
their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to buy
an openmoko is the freedom.
But the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will cost
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello everyone,
I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone. Everyone knows
their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to buy
an openmoko is the freedom.
But the new iPhone 3G
Federico Lorenzi wrote:
The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized
through a 2 year ATT contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs
nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract.
... and per my last Email, the lack of subsidies for the Freerunner,
where you
What the hell?! Seems like a lot of people STILL don't get it:
The iPhone does NOT cost 199$.
It's a marketing lie. The actual price is 199$ + a two year contract.
That makes it probably closer to 1000$. The Neo is still very very
cheap compared to that, especially considering how few Neo phones
There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in
Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably
godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no
monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me
the price advantage over an
You've forgotten about the extra grand and a half in contract charges.
(that's just in the US, I hate to think what they'll be like here in
Canada).
Seems inexpensive to me :)
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, Jorge . wrote:
Hello everyone,
I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone.
*sigh*
The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized
through a 2 year ATT contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs
nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract.
Just look Ebay, amazon, etc... you can buy unlocked iPhones for almost the
price they have
Ortwin Regel wrote:
There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in
Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably
godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no
monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me
the
Yeh it is all relative to your country and usage pattern. In the UK
you can get a prepaid SIM with data capped at £1 per day. I don't need
a contract (I don't make many calls/sms) so the cost of the Freerunner
is a lot more attractive to me! Especially at it seems Apple will now
make you activate
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in
Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably
godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no
monthly fees at all. Much
Jorge . wrote:
Just look Ebay, amazon, etc... you can buy unlocked iPhones for almost the
price they have with ATT, in fact there is no ATT in my country, an i could
buy one on many shops in the downtown (dont misunderstand me, i want the
FreeRunner!!).
I am sure it will happen again
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*sigh*
The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized
through a 2 year ATT contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs
nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract.
Just look Ebay, amazon, etc...
I think what Ian is trying to say is that contract or not, you still have to
pay for your phone service and data service. So if you spend US$50/mo on a
data plan, it does come out to be more expensive with the FreeRunner if and
*only if* you plan to use the phone for two years. if you plan on
Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost,
because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400
($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that you'd spend with ATT also
helps cover the hidden cost of the hardware.
No doubt, but you can buy unlocked
Lowell Higley wrote:
I think what Ian is trying to say is that contract or not, you still
have to pay for your phone service and data service.
Exactly.
Whether you get the iPhone, a Freerunner, a Nokia, a Samsung,
whatever... you still need to pay for the cellular service.
Yes, it's cheaper
On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 13:15 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote:
In this case, the iPhone is way more expensive than an iPhone.
^^^
I always knew there is some conspiracy going on with Apple ;-p
... and per my last Email, the lack of subsidies for the Freerunner,
where you still need a voice/data contract, actually costs more.
But the extra cost is worth the freedom of doing whatever I want with my
Freerunner.
-id
Don't forget you've always got the option to use the Freerunner
Hello,
This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order:
1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the
good reasons to buy one :)
2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract, the iPhone 3G will
be more expensive at
Jorge . wrote:
No doubt, but you can buy unlocked iPhones on many places, including internet
and they dont cost $960
Thats ONLY because you can buy an iPhone right now WITHOUT a contract.
You won't be getting the same phoen pricing with the new iPhone, that is
guaranteed - to break a
Jorge . wrote:
No doubt, but you can buy unlocked iPhones on many places, including internet
and they dont cost $960
You're right, an unlocked iPhone will likely cost more than $199 (for
the 8GB model), but you still need to have the data/voice plan. If *all*
you're comparing is the cost of
ian douglas wrote:
Exactly.
Whether you get the iPhone, a Freerunner, a Nokia, a Samsung,
whatever... you still need to pay for the cellular service.
Yes, it's cheaper if you buy pay-as-you-go service, and yes, if you buy
the 'locked' iPhone (retail box from ATT) you *must* buy into a
Greg Bonett wrote:
Don't forget you've always got the option to use the Freerunner without a
voice/data plan at all if you don't mind only using VOIP in Wifi networks.
Then its a bargain!
Excellent point, Greg!
(I don't recall if the new iPhone has WiFi to do VoIP calls)
Are you sure about that? According to Engadget [1] you will have to
activate the contract in shop which seems to suggest a pretty bum deal
if you plan on then unlocking it and selling it at $200. If you do I
will buy one from you at that price ;)
Robert Taylor wrote:
Please, compare equal things.
Why are you posting nonsense here?
Rob, I'm not the one who posted the original article, and I take offense
to you saying that my thoughts are 'nonsense' -- that sort of attitude
isn't helpful to anybody.
In a previous post, you said:
The
Jorge . wrote:
Hello,
This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in
order:
Okay.
1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the
good reasons to buy one :)
Right!
2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract,
As someone who owns an unlocked iPhone I understand how 3) works on
the old iPhone. What is not clear is the deal on the new iPhone. The
reports are that the person who buys it will have to enter the
contract when they buy it. Note, this is different than 3). The
reality is we don't know for sure
The software is Free, the hardware is Free but not in the beer sense.
Look, if om don't make enough money there is no gta04. It has shortcomings
but it's still much better an idea than the iphone. Your software will be
free, no 30% cut for developers to go to apple. Your abilities to use the
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
A $600 SUBSIDIZED phone on a 2 year contract ($200 up front cost to
subscriber) VS a $200 moko UNSUBSIDIZED phone PLUS a 2 year contract.
Of course they are bloody the same price up front, THE MOKO ISN'T
SUBSIDIZED.
ian douglas wrote:
alking about what's subsidized and what's not. We're
comparing how much money have I paid out of my pocket after two years
to compare a 2-year contract requirement versus owning a Freerunner.
Well yes we are.
If the moko was subsidized it would effectively be free.
:07 +0100
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Are you sure about that? According to Engadget [1] you will have to
activate the contract in shop which seems to suggest a pretty bum deal
if you plan on then unlocking
On 06/10/2008 06:21 PM, ian douglas wrote:
While I'm not trying to encourage any bitter feelings whatsoever, I'm
curious how you calculated the iPhone costs twice as much as the
Freerunner when you look at the bottom line of how many dollars you've
spent after two years. Please elaborate on
Robert Taylor wrote:
On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract.
If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than
the $600 the phone is worth.
The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow you
to use it with any operator was
Michael T. Dean wrote:
On 06/10/2008 06:21 PM, ian douglas wrote:
While I'm not trying to encourage any bitter feelings whatsoever, I'm
curious how you calculated the iPhone costs twice as much as the
Freerunner when you look at the bottom line of how many dollars you've
spent after
ian douglas pisze:
[...]
For example, I pay $39.99/month for 450 daytime minutes and 5000
evening/weekend minutes every month. I pay an additional $39.99 per
month for an unlimited data plan. My total monthly cost is $79.98 plus
taxes and fees, so let's round it up to $90 per month. Over
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jorge . wrote:
Hello,
This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in
order:
Okay.
1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about
the good reasons to buy one :)
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:57:04 -0700 Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:
ian douglas wrote:
Exactly.
Whether you get the iPhone, a Freerunner, a Nokia, a Samsung,
whatever... you still need to pay for the cellular service.
Yes, it's cheaper if you buy pay-as-you-go service, and
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:56:44 -0700 ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:
Robert Taylor wrote:
You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year
contract minimum.
Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost,
because of the $960 ($40/mo
Robert Taylor wrote:
Just compare equal things.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of equal.
Hear me out:
By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner,
and using ATT for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over
two years no matter which
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
Robert Taylor wrote:
On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract.
If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than
the $600 the phone is worth.
The first iPhone was released june
ian douglas wrote:
By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner,
and using ATT for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over
two years no matter which phone they buy.
Jorge's original posting in this thread said the following:
the new iPhone 3G
ian douglas wrote:
Robert Taylor wrote:
Just compare equal things.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of equal.
Hear me out:
Hi!
:-) I really do mean well but I'm not dropping this.
You still have it wrong.
If the moko was subsidized out of pocket expense
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this
happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was
assumed
that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore
the risk by losing
No, it won't make the Moko more expensive.
You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year
contract minimum.
The iPhone is AT LEAST twice as expensive as the Moko.
In other words, if the Moko came with a 2 year contract it would
basically be free.
Please
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you
can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a
contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract
unless you buy another phone
Robert Taylor wrote:
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
Precisely. And if you want to quit your contract you will pay A FEE
that will make your phone far more expensive than $600.
I wish people would stop saying nonsense.
It really doesn't matter if you unlock the phone or
Robert Taylor wrote:
I'm not dropping this. You still have it wrong.
Hi Robert,
I'm not trying to win the overall argument, I just want you to
acknowledge that my position is as valid as your own, as I do for your
position in point #2 below.
Here's my thinking, please feel free to agree or
Robert Taylor writes:
If the moko was subsidized out of pocket expense would be less because
the moko would be cheaper.
Well, yes, but when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was
unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it.
So the economics (as I faced them)
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