[Emc-users] Custom Cast Iron castings

[hubert]

 I have a new spindle that I would like to mount on my Mill.  It 
larger, faster and more powerful than my current spindle.  I have 
created a 3D model of the desired spindle holder box that I would like 
to get converted to cast iron.


I would appreciate recommendations on sources of custom castings.

I live in central Texas.

Hubert



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[hubert]

On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:

Chris,
You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too expensive. 
Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe, 
solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is 
extrusion screws.
Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has a 
30 day free demo.

https://www.webersys.com/

I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at 
Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still 
supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other 
features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a couple 
or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX 
product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under 
Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be 
interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since 2015.

As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to learn.

YMMV

Dave

On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
lathes that runs on Linux.

The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/. But 
unlike
Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths 
unless

you get some 3rd party add-in software.

I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux based
16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.  
Onshape

on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've not
figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.

Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done for
complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof" that
g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.

One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC, installing
Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a rarely
powerful Linux PC.
(At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)

I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long 
time and

before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I wanted to
edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the only 
game in
town for professional-level media editing unless you consider Apple's 
Final

Cut Pro X.    None of this runs on Linux.


On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:38 PM R C  wrote:


On 9/16/20 12:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free 
even for

commercial use until you make $50K using it.

Fusion is a little bit like Freecad but is more complete and better
supported as you would expect of a product from Autodesk.


I have heard about that one.   does it run on Linux too?




On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:39 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


I have been using freecad for designing parts, and then milling 
them on

a sherline mill, getting the hang of that a little bit.


I have a lathe too, that works with CNC linux, but noticed heard, 
that

you can't really  make parts, or g-codes, with it for a lathe.


What wold be a good choice for designing, simple, parts for a lathe,
that will create g-code for it?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Cheap chinese servo motors

[hubert]

On 9/11/20 11:49 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

These look like the ones I use on my Skyfire Mill.  The only problem
I've had is over driving my x axis into the side of steel case and
breaking it off the table.  Not the motors fault the other two are still
working 3 years later.  I replaced with the original.


Hello Hubert, and thanks for your feedback.

That really makes me feel a lot more confident about them. My major concern
was reliability because the idea is to use these 8 to 10 hours a days
easily. Since they are cheap enough I can always have a backup drive just
in case.

By the way, what happened to your X axis sounds really painful. Hope your
machine is doing well now :).
It cost a motor and a shaft coupler.  At the time I had a spare motor 
and had to jury rig a coupler.  I now have replacements for both on the 
shelf In case I get stupid again.


El vie., 11 sept. 2020 a las 17:29, hubert () escribió:


On 9/11/20 2:21 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

Helo to all,

I found these on Aliexpress:



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001376368510.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.5d5325f21j0XN8
These look like the ones I use on my Skyfire Mill.  The only problem
I've had is over driving my x axis into the side of steel case and
breaking it off the table.  Not the motors fault the other two are still
working 3 years later.  I replaced with the original.

What do you think? The price is more than good. The seller has good
feedback on all the listings but sadly, no enough sales to be sure.

I'm tempted to buy these to drive the router but I don't really know if
they will be reliable enough.

Thanks as always.

Leonardo

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Cheap chinese servo motors

[hubert]

On 9/11/20 2:21 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

Helo to all,

I found these on Aliexpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001376368510.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.5d5325f21j0XN8
These look like the ones I use on my Skyfire Mill.  The only problem 
I've had is over driving my x axis into the side of steel case and 
breaking it off the table.  Not the motors fault the other two are still 
working 3 years later.  I replaced with the original.

What do you think? The price is more than good. The seller has good
feedback on all the listings but sadly, no enough sales to be sure.

I'm tempted to buy these to drive the router but I don't really know if
they will be reliable enough.

Thanks as always.

Leonardo

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[Emc-users] RPI4 spi interface Mesa 7Cxx cards

[hubert]

I am trying to familiarize my self the 7C80 and 7C81 cards.  I have 
multiple projects for them.  a couple of lathes, an update to a minimill 
currently running parallel port.  And enhancing my Skyfire P2 with 4th 
and 5th Axis and Highspeed spindle.  The Skyfire is currently running 
parallel port to 7I76 and probably be able to handle the changes but, I 
want a testbed before I make the changes and to exercise the drivers and 
their programming.  Once I start the mods I don't want to be down and 
extended period of time.


On the lathes I will initially do the mini first to learn before growing 
to the 14" x 40".


I currently have the pi4 4G the latest raspbian converted with RT-Prempt 
but now I need to configure and use mesaflash.  halcmd and halrun work 
but I get errors with hm2_spi.


I can't seem to find the starting place.  Please provide some hints.

Hubert



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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7C80

[hubert]

On 8/18/20 1:45 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Tuesday 18 August 2020 13:44:11 hubert wrote:


Gene

     Just browsing the Mesa Website and ran into the Above card.
http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7c80man.pdf.  This made me think
of your Sheldon controller and left me wondering If this would have
made your project easier.  If so I have a couple of lathes I might
convert after I finish my Mill upgrades.


It may have, but the 7c80 did not exist when I did this conversion.  So I
used what could be made to work, and I still have 35 or more gpio's
looking for work in case I get a wild hare and decide to have it make a
fresh pot of coffee everytime I start a new job on it.  And its sure
nice to have i/o to spare.

Stay well and safe Hubert.

Cheers, Gene Heskett


Your success probably inspired the creation of YC80

You have 10 years on me Keep giving me a moving goal

Good Health

Hubert



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[Emc-users] Mesa 7C80

[hubert]

Gene

   Just browsing the Mesa Website and ran into the Above card. 
http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7c80man.pdf.  This made me think of 
your Sheldon controller and left me wondering If this would have made 
your project easier.  If so I have a couple of lathes I might convert 
after I finish my Mill upgrades.




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Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi

[hubert]

On 10/30/19 10:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Wednesday 30 October 2019 16:26:08 andy pugh wrote:


Apparently the Pi4 overheating is the USB, not the CPU, and there is a
fix...

https://hackaday.com/2019/10/30/rpi4-now-overclocked-net-booted-and-po
wer-sipping/

I did the upgrade and now I can "sudo reboot" it from here in the house.
I couldn't before, taking a full shutdown and power cycle.  Thats a
definite improvement. FWIW, I gave a slow fan from an old video card, a
12 volt fan running of 5 volts, and 4 heat sinks of the stickon variety,
including what I think is the usb chip right behind those connectors.
I've not had any heating problems that I am aware of since mount it chip
side toward the fan, upside down so there no twist in the spi cable to a
right side up 7i90HD, and the cable is only an inch long.  Latency is by
itslf, a red hair under 15 u-secs. Start a session of glxgears an its
about 49 u-secs, but due to the slow network just under 3 fps if pulled
out to nearly full screen.  From its own screen, full screen was 59 fps.
I can live with that :) But my keyboard just died, new battery's didn't
fix it, but after new battery's a shut off and a turn back on of the
port of the usb hub the dongle is plugged into revived it.  Must be
getting close to Halloween. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett


In earlier posts you referenced

"

Got it by brute force, stuff moved to new location, at link in sig below,
add "lathe-stf/linuxcnc4rpi4" should get you a list, en, fr and es docs
and all the other stuff output by debuild.  Many thanks to John Thornton
for his build recipe.

I tried to track this down and was unable to find.   Has it moved or is it OBE.

I just got my RPi 4's and would like to try building LinuxCNC on them.  Any 
pointers
on where to start would be appreciated.

Thanks,  Hubert Bahr



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Re: [Emc-users] Home-limit switch measuring

[hubert]

Gene

   How many roller switches would you need.  I have more than I need.

Hubert

On 3/31/19 12:14 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 31 March 2019 11:07:51 TJoseph Powderly wrote:


hi gene
maybe redesign to drive past the switch
like you can brush a wall mounted light switch by swiping your hand
over the wall surface
rather than punching it :-)
( try mounting so the direction of switch activation is 90 degress to
the joint motion )
tomp


I hadn't thought of that idea, mainly because that would put the
mechanism out in the breeze and subject to damage, or maybe snagging a
hose etc as it moves. Mounted so as to detect the touch of the two parts
as it comes to the end of travel is quite appetizing in addition to
being "in out of the weather" so to speak. Mounting a 90 degree angled
and flexible lever for z would either project forward or sideways, and
sideways would cost me x travel too. I'll have to go stand and stare at
it some more & see what I can imagine AND make. I've already done some
of that, and keep throwing it away for one reason or another.  The best
idea seems to be to make a spring loaded button pusher with 1/4" of give
in the spring, but that sticks out. On both moving and stationary parts.
Sliding a ramp over the top of the button equals wear on the plastic
button. And complicated  by the inability to get at it to drill & tap
screw holes without a huge teardown. So whatever is going to have to be
set in position and superglued to the epoxy paint on everything.
Imagination will be made to work overtime for sure. Changing switch
style to roller lever is looking like a possibility. Put a short tab of
sheet alu to stick out of the gap and hit the roller might work, and
that would put the switch body flat on the stationary part. They can
stand some overtravel by flexing the lever. I have enough of those for
homes, but not for limits too.  And with no Radio Shacks left, China is
the nearest vendor. 6 weeks. Humm, for x home at left, peel my cable
back out of the gantry cable chain early. Y home never gets to the
gantry cable, only thru the new cambric coming down from the electronics
shelf. Like I said, stand and stare at it. And let my imagination out
without a chaperone...

Thanks TomP.


On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 9:03 PM Gene Heskett 

wrote:

Greetings everybody;

I think I've got the coolant pump starting problem fixed.  Ignore
that faint knocking sound.

Now I would like to use a teeny little pushbutton (6x6x2.5mm tall)
between two solid parts of this machine for home and potentially as
limit switches.

However the amount of available overtravel after the switch has
clicked is quite limited unless this switch is mounted on something
crushable so that the getting stopped overtravel does not crush the
switch like a Coors can.

Is there a way to determine how much overtravel vs approach speeds
is occuring?

I ask because a wide open x or y move  can do around 220 ipm on this
machine, and that stopping distance is not an ignoreable distance
when the switch only has maybe .010" of overtravel after its
clicked.

So I first would like to determine the maximum safe SEARCH_VEL I can
use for homeing, then from that, be able to set MAX and MIN LIMITS
far enough away from the crash stop to provide crash protection in
the space between the LIMIT set in the ini file, or how much crush
room I have to build into the switch mount?

Also, in attempting to minimize this stopping distance, what or how
can one detect a motor step slip if the ACCEL's are stopping the
motor faster than it can stop? Hopefully without pounding a $90 dial
into junk.

Thanks all;

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>



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Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] bad 5i25? Fixed I think

[hubert]

On 09/20/2018 09:49 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Wednesday 19 September 2018 21:13:55 Gene Heskett wrote:


On Wednesday 19 September 2018 17:44:15 andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 at 21:40, Gene Heskett 

wrote:

My little lathe is doing funny things with the z axis.
The halmeter menu cannot find the joint.1.motor-pos-cmd output to
monitor it.

That can't possibly be the fault of the 5i25.

In fact, even without a 5i25 that pin should exist.

If num_joints was set to 1 then you wouldn't have that pin.
Otherwise I suspect that you are looking in the wrong place. Signals
rather then Pins tab?

No, I was looking in the pins tab, but was looking for
joint.1.motor.pos.cmd, which does not seem to exist.

Because theres no motor power though, I can look from here. And
joint.1.motor-pos-cmd does exist now...

But neither joint.0 or joint.1 motor-pos-cmd existed at 16:50 this
afternoon, with power applied to the BoB and motors.

Me goes wandering off in the general direction of the fridge for my
nightly near beer.


Never did get it, went to bed instead, back killing me.

(don't get old, its no fun)

Gene it might not be fun but it sured beats the alternative.
   At got up Tues to see the Orthopedic Dr and about a knee brace ended 
up swinging by the emergency room on the way home and not making it back 
to the house until late today Thursday.  It seems a ghost from a 
twenty-five year old surgery decided to take another whack at me.  You 
know, it hurt just as bad now as it had the first time.  We

keep getting older but every  fun day is one more than we had before.

Got up this morning and I believe I have fixed it. I first went thru the
x stuff, combining net names etc so the signal paths were more obvious.
Without bob or motor power, x still worked.  Nuked the whole Z stanza,
and copy/pasted the X stuff to a Z stanza, then edited where needed to
change x to z and joints and stepgens to 1. Also temporarily made it
home individually.  Even passes the two_pass now which it didn't before.
So theoreticly, all I need to do is calibrate the scale, and soft
limits, and TLM should be usable again.

But before I set limits, which are stated as being in machine units,
is this the figure from joint.n.position-cmd when the machine is driven
to that particular position?
[...]





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[Emc-users] Mesa expansion?

[hubert]

I am getting ready to enhance my mill by adding 4th and 5th axis plus 
tool and work probes.  At the current


time I am using a 6I25 in my computer and a 7I76 in the Mill Driver 
cabinet.  To house the drivers for my 4th and


5th Axis as well as additional io for the probes I am expanding to a 2nd 
electronics cabinet.  In this cabinet I am installing


the HA-655 drivers for my FHA25C series harmonic drives, an isolation 
transformer, 24 volt switching supply, and a 7I84.


My question is about the best way to hook up step and direction from the 
7I76 in the first cabinet to the Drivers in the second cabinet.


Should I run separate signal wires between the cabinets or is there some 
way to transfer this function to the 7I84?



Thanks for any insight

Hubert



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[Emc-users] EMC traffic

[hubert]

Just checking, It seems unusual not to have any posts in this long a 
period.  My last received post was 6/17/17, 12:27 PM


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Re: [Emc-users] LCNC TED Talk style

[hubert]

If you look at the vita attached to the thesis, you will see that he 
lists the work he did for LinuxCNC.



On 6/15/17 6:34 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Certainly no one today would get a Phd for writing a CNC controller.  But I
would not be surprised at all if he did not need to do a considerable
amount of work involving motion planning if he was working with statically
unstable walking robots.

Likely some of that work found it's way in to a CNC motion planner.   The
logic involved is the same no matter the application.   You build a
trajectory line through space then chop the line in time at the control
period and then "magic" happens and you end up with joint rates.

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Ralph Stirling <
ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu> wrote:


I don't believe Robert Ellenberg's PhD thesis was related to
his LinuxCNC motion planner work.  His thesis title is:
"A Stability-Estimator to Unify Humanoid Locomotion: Walking,
Stair-Climbing and Ladder-Climbing"

The link to it is:
https://idea.library.drexel.edu/islandora/object/idea%
3A4538/datastream/OBJ/download/A_Stability-Estimator_to_Unify_Humanoid_
Locomotion.pdf

My recollection is that Tormach paid him to work on the motion
planner (for both LinuxCNC and Machinekit).  I could be wrong,
but perhaps he will pop in here and give the definitive answer.

-- Ralph

From: Jon Elson [el...@pico-systems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:21 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LCNC TED Talk style

On 06/14/2017 11:25 AM, Sven Wesley wrote:

RUGBOT!!! :D That is so nerdy I must show it!
And of course Chris' jukebox for the finale. :)
Anyone with a Raspberry or a Beagle? Would be perfect to show the wide
range. Think Raspberry CNC and the Stuart's monster.

I manufacture the CRAMPS board that adds 6 stepper drivers
and some heater FETs to the Beagle Bone for 3D printer
setups.  All the brilliant stuff was done by Charles
Steinkuehler, especially mating the step generator and PWM
functions running on the Bone's PRU processor to a real-time
HAL component that runs on the ARM.

What is the most complex code in the code base. I want to point out that
this really is some hardcore stuff. The people I'm talking to are really
good programmers so I want to give them some weird stuff. :)


I'm not sure of complexity, but Robert Ellenberg's new
trajectory planner is VERY well thought out (Hell he got a
PhD out of it!)  and is one of the biggest improvements in
LinuxCNC is the last few years.  He gave a talk at one of
the Machinekit meets describing all the intricacies, and I
was barely able to follow the general concept.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Anyone done an ATC?

[hubert]

Danny where are you located, if you are in the Austin Tx area I am just 
60 miles north of you.

My spindle is belt driven by an AC servo motor max 8000 RPM. While I do 
have an addon 2 RPM Spindle for Micro Machining it is not ATC capable.

Hubert


On 5/11/17 11:42 AM, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote:
> Which spindle did you get?  Options that looked appealing to me:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8KW-ATC-Water-Cooled-Automatic-Tool-Change-Spindle-Motor-ISO20-220V-5-4A-CNC-/112396640759?hash=item1a2b5ca1f7:g:5UIAAOSwawpXtUTl
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2HP-1-5kw-24000RPM-ISO20-3-bearings-Automatic-Tool-Changes-ATC-Spindles-/262522320679?hash=item3d1f8cb727:g:9NYAAOSwRJ9Xhg6v
>
> Danny
>
>  hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> Jan did one for my Mill.  It uses BT30 tool holders.  I am not familiar
>> with tool holding on the router.  We used the carousel component for
>> storage and presentation of the tool.  We used pneumatic cylinders for
>> draw bar and movement of the tool to and from the spindle.  We also had
>> to make sure the spindle stopped in the right orientation for the tool
>> change.
>>
>> Hubert
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/17 8:33 AM, Les Newell wrote:
>>> I have done a lathe ATC, which was fairly painless. I have a router that
>>> is due for a retrofit and it has an ATC. I'll probably be starting on it
>>> sometime around July/August.
>>>
>>> There are various ways to do tool changers. My lathe ATC uses a Python
>>> script which I wrote as a quick hack though it works so well I never
>>> bothered to turn it into a proper hal module. For the router I'll
>>> probably use ClassicLadder.
>>>
>>> Les
>>>
>>> On 09/05/2017 21:17, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote:
>>>> I'm hoping to do an ATC router (primarily wood) next.  Does anyone have 
>>>> experience doing that with LinuxCNC?
>>>>
>>>> I do see some $2000 spindle options.  Any recommendations?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Danny
>>>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Anyone done an ATC?

[hubert]

Jan did one for my Mill.  It uses BT30 tool holders.  I am not familiar 
with tool holding on the router.  We used the carousel component for 
storage and presentation of the tool.  We used pneumatic cylinders for 
draw bar and movement of the tool to and from the spindle.  We also had 
to make sure the spindle stopped in the right orientation for the tool 
change.

Hubert


On 5/11/17 8:33 AM, Les Newell wrote:
> I have done a lathe ATC, which was fairly painless. I have a router that
> is due for a retrofit and it has an ATC. I'll probably be starting on it
> sometime around July/August.
>
> There are various ways to do tool changers. My lathe ATC uses a Python
> script which I wrote as a quick hack though it works so well I never
> bothered to turn it into a proper hal module. For the router I'll
> probably use ClassicLadder.
>
> Les
>
> On 09/05/2017 21:17, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote:
>> I'm hoping to do an ATC router (primarily wood) next.  Does anyone have 
>> experience doing that with LinuxCNC?
>>
>> I do see some $2000 spindle options.  Any recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Danny
>>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] AC Servo ?

[hubert]

This is a HarmonicDrive FHA-40C-100-250E It has 4 wire encoder cable and 
a 7 wire motor cable which includes power in and hall output.  Some 
models such as the 250US or 250D have quadrature output.  Thanks for the 
suggestions.  The driver I have has various options for drive and 
feedback, it just doesn't have the serial mode.  I think I will try the 
speed mode.  Another thought is to attach a separate encoder to provide 
feedback.  These are hollow shaft drives which make them nice for rotary 
axis use.  I am hoping to determine the mode so it can be passed on to 
the open source STMBL project rather than depending on used drivers.


On 4/8/17 1:38 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 04/08/2017 11:52 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> Some place inside that encoder is a normal quadrature signal.  Likely
>> right at the phototransistor.If you could find it and buffer it
>> then you have a conventional motor that is easy to interface.
> Well, in the case of the Fanuc serial encoders, the raw
> quadrature is a sine wave of much lower resolution.
> The encoder chip interpolates that up by a factor of 16 to
> 500. Also, these are AC motors, so you need a commutation
> output as well as the quadrature.
>
> Jon
>
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[Emc-users] AC Servo ?

[hubert]

   I have a Servo that has an undocumented feedback encoder.  I am 
interested in trying to decipher it.  Is it feasible to run the servo 
without feedback connected, and put  a digital storage scope on its 
outputs to capture the signal?  It is an incremental encoder that has 
quadrature and index some how encoded into a serial data stream s, /s.

Hubert


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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 10:01 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>
> I have modelled the D1-5 nose and attempted to fit the 74mm PCD holes
> in. It's not pretty. two of the holes are impossible, I think, and the
> others need to be counterbored so deep that the heads are lower than
> the D1 cams (or they have to go through them). And they eat into the
> retaining taper.
> http://a360.co/2nMOEnm should let you view the 3D-model of the D1-4.
>
> I think that the answer would be to make the dummy-spindle-nose in two
> parts, one that bolts to the harmonic drive, and then a second section
> that bolts to that which has the taper.
> (then in-situ grind the locating taper, ideally).
>
Thank you for the the 3D-model of a split D1-5 model spindle nose.
What was your source of the D1-5 dimensions?
Since I am doing this for an FHA-40C my PCD is 112MM right under the 
CAMS.  In this case
I think I will be using a thicker bottom plate and counter sinking some 
Flat Head M10 bolts.
How much material would you recommend between the head of the bolt and 
the Mounting plate, I am a computer engineer not a mechanical engineer.
I am planning to use the center piece that I am carving out of the 11" 
dia x 3" thick grey cast Iron round, that I am using to make the housing 
for my actuator.  This should leave me about a 160mm x 76.2mm of stock 
to make the two piece nose.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[hubert]

Andy

I own two 3d printers, and have had mixed results.  The second one 
looked like a bargain but was made out of plywood and firmly etched in 
my mind the advantage of metal.  My first one was a single extruder 
model made out of aluminum and plastic.  Later revisions are replacing 
even more parts with metal.  Larger parts are more demanding on machine 
and environment.  The cooling process can make the parts curl away from 
the platform.  You may want to shield the part being made from 
extraneous air currents, so that may make box shaped printers 
attractive.To get experience you don't need dual head or large size 
but for long term repeatable results you do need the rigidity of metal.

I did make an ar15 lower model with mine that lasted for 4 rounds.  
Even then it was not a catastrophic failure it just showed a stress 
point that modern polymer lowers now use an embedded metal part to solve 
the problem.  It can be used to give you 3d check of a model, just don't 
expect long life, unless you design the model knowing the limitations of 
the materials.  The second machine didn't last though my wife's tree 
ornament project.   Unfortunately, I got ambitious and started to 
upgrade the first machine, which  had produced the better models.   Life 
got in the way and it is still unfinished and collecting dust.


On 3/28/17 12:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:17 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On 28 March 2017 at 17:18, Les Newell  wrote:
>>> The prints also aren't that strong. If you
>>> put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
>>> stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
>>> (or usually both together).
>
> The thing about 2D printing is that it does not work well if you are making
> replacement parts for an existing product.   The original parts were likely
> of metal or a stronger kind of plastic but where 3D printing works well is
> for new designs where you design the part knowing the properties of the
> material.For example if printing a design that uses timing belts, you'd
> use a wider belt them if using aluminum pulleys.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] AC servo driver, Recommendations/advice requested

[hubert]

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [Emc-users] AC servo driver, Recommendations/advice 
requested
Date:   Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:30:03 -0500
From:   hubert <h...@hbahr.org>
To: andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com>



On 3/27/17 4:55 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 25 March 2017 at 19:11, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> I see what you mean.  Section 2-2-3 implies that the driver is receiving
>> from the actuator 2-phase pulse trains plus a phase-Z pulse signal.  In
>> addition the absolute encoder  sends  absolute signals.  We can only sit
>> here and speculate until we can see what is actually on the encoder
>> cable.  The unit is scheduled to be delivered Monday.  Until then all I
>> can do is try to dream up a method to rotate the servo while reading the
>> encoder output.   Are you familiar with any techniques of serially
>> encoding 2-phase pulse trains?
> I had an interesting Sunday, I met up with Rene Hopf from the STMBL
> project at the London Hackspace.
> I brought a Baldor servo and my FHA25B. Rene brought some STMBL
> drives. At the hackspace was a Thermo Electron robot arm powered by
> FHA17-sized harmonic drives.
>
> Rene was able to get both my servos running very well with the STMBL.
> STMBL interfaces extremely easy with LinuxCNC. It presents as a
> smart-serial device, so you just plug it in to a Mesa card with an
> ethernet cable and it creates HAL pins for position command, and feeds
> back other data. It also seems to be extremely good at auto-tuning to
> the servo motor. All in all a very compelling "product":
> https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
>
> We did not attempt to move the robot, however Rene took one of the
> encoders from the robot home with him to experiment. They appear to be
> Tamagawa, and to communicate with Manchester-encoded RS485. (the pin
> names in the Tamagawa documentation match those in the Harmonic drive
> spec for your actuator). Rene seemed fairly confident that he would be
> able to add Tamagawa to the STMBL software. However this might not be
> of any immediate use to you, as the STMBL is currently only really a
> DIY project.
I have located a couple of drives that are compatible with C version of
the drives.  Once they arrive I believe I will be able to capture the
signals.  I think this document
http://www.copleycontrols.com/Motion/pdf/encoder-guide.pdf provides more
insight (page 29).  It looks like it may be the Panasonic Incremental A
Format.  Anything I can do assist the STMBL project is of interest.  At
this time assembly of a PCB is not of interest (been there, done that).
I do fabricate small interface boards when necessary but prefer to buy.
> (However, I came away with a beta sample and will be using that in my
> machine, though I have committed to adding extra Hall Sensor support
> to the software in exchange)
>

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Re: [Emc-users] AC servo driver, Recommendations/advice requested

[hubert]

On 3/25/17 2:46 PM, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-03-25 6:08 GMT+02:00 hubert <h...@hbahr.org>:
>
>> I am looking for recommendations and/or advice for driving a
>> Harmonic-drive-systems FHA-40C-100-E250 Actuator that I will be using as
>> part of the 4th AXIS on my Mill.  The motor appears to be about a 1KW
>> unit with max RPM of 3000 and has an encoder that provides 2500 pulses
>> per revolution.  Harmonic-drive-systems manuals do not give instructions
>> on how to set their drivers for the specific Actuator but say use one
>> that is preset for that actuator. Furthermore the Driver technology
>> looks a couple of decades old since the support software was written for
>> Windows 98, ME or NT. They do have the more modern REL driver, but I
>> have been unable to find the cost for it.
>>
>> I might upset you a bit
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371870219334
> Not sure this drive exactly fits your motor though, but it should.
>
> But here is a similar drive (I'm sure that Copley Controls make REL drives
> for HD)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262843373444
>
> You might ask Copley Controls if Xenus supports that encoder type.
Thanks for bringing this up.
   I will report back here how this works out.  Reading the user guide 
for the REL and its software I found some references to Copley,  The 
data sheets look like replicas of the Xenus XTL and User guide for their 
HDM software looks like the Copley CME2 software.  The links from the 
Copeley Controls Data sheet on "HD SYSTEMS FHA Series Rotary Actuator 
with AC Brushless motor With Copley XTL Xenus Amplifier" to HD systems 
motor data files no longer worked, but I was able to locate them on the 
HDM site.  They included a file for my specific Actuator Model number so 
things are looking good.  So hopefully in a couple of weeks I will have 
the answers.  In the worst case I will be out some shipping fee's if I 
decide to return every thing.
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Re: [Emc-users] AC servo driver, Recommendations/advice requested

[hubert]

On 3/25/17 2:46 PM, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-03-25 6:08 GMT+02:00 hubert <h...@hbahr.org>:
>
>> I am looking for recommendations and/or advice for driving a
>> Harmonic-drive-systems FHA-40C-100-E250 Actuator that I will be using as
>> part of the 4th AXIS on my Mill.  The motor appears to be about a 1KW
>> unit with max RPM of 3000 and has an encoder that provides 2500 pulses
>> per revolution.  Harmonic-drive-systems manuals do not give instructions
>> on how to set their drivers for the specific Actuator but say use one
>> that is preset for that actuator. Furthermore the Driver technology
>> looks a couple of decades old since the support software was written for
>> Windows 98, ME or NT. They do have the more modern REL driver, but I
>> have been unable to find the cost for it.
>>
>> I might upset you a bit
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371870219334
> Not sure this drive exactly fits your motor though, but it should.
I had seen this, but since it was sold before I even started looking all 
it gave me was hope that a solution would be found.
>
> But here is a similar drive (I'm sure that Copley Controls make REL drives
> for HD)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262843373444
I followed up on this, it had links to the Copley site that provided a 
data sheet that claimed it worked for my actuator. Placed the Order.  
When the Drive arrives, I will learn how to use it.
>
> You might ask Copley Controls if Xenus supports that encoder type.
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Re: [Emc-users] AC servo driver, Recommendations/advice requested

[hubert]

On 3/25/17 5:52 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 25 March 2017 at 04:08, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> I am looking for recommendations and/or advice for driving a
>> Harmonic-drive-systems FHA-40C-100-E250 Actuator that I will be using as
>> part of the 4th AXIS on my Mill.  The motor appears to be about a 1KW
>> unit with max RPM of 3000 and has an encoder that provides 2500 pulses
>> per revolution.
> The HD web site only seems to list the US250 encoder currently.
> The E250 encoder is mentioned in this version of the manual
> https://www.hds.co.jp/products/data/pdf/technicaldocument/rotary/FHA-C_Series_Manual_en_0211-1R-TFHAC-E.pdf
> Which gives the encoder pinout:
>
> Color   Signal Ref
> Red +5VPower
> Black   0V  Power
> Yellow  SD Serial
> Blue /SDSerial
> Shield   FG
>
> But doesn't give the data format for the serial data.
>
> Looking at the manual for the recommended driver: ( HA-655-4-200 )
> http://www.harmonicdrive.net/_hd/content/catalogs/pdf/ha-655_manual.pdf
> There is a fair bit of information about the format of the encoder
> signals _out_ of the drive, but very little about what is going in to
> the drive on CN1.
>
> I think you might need to get the drive hooked up to an oscilloscope
> to work out what data format is being used.
>
> I think that despite being called "incremental" it must actually be
> single-turn absolute data as there are no separate commutation
> outputs.
>
I see what you mean.  Section 2-2-3 implies that the driver is receiving 
from the actuator 2-phase pulse trains plus a phase-Z pulse signal.  In 
addition the absolute encoder  sends  absolute signals.  We can only sit 
here and speculate until we can see what is actually on the encoder 
cable.  The unit is scheduled to be delivered Monday.  Until then all I 
can do is try to dream up a method to rotate the servo while reading the 
encoder output.   Are you familiar with any techniques of serially 
encoding 2-phase pulse trains?


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[Emc-users] AC servo driver, Recommendations/advice requested

[hubert]

I am looking for recommendations and/or advice for driving a 
Harmonic-drive-systems FHA-40C-100-E250 Actuator that I will be using as 
part of the 4th AXIS on my Mill.  The motor appears to be about a 1KW 
unit with max RPM of 3000 and has an encoder that provides 2500 pulses 
per revolution.  Harmonic-drive-systems manuals do not give instructions 
on how to set their drivers for the specific Actuator but say use one 
that is preset for that actuator. Furthermore the Driver technology 
looks a couple of decades old since the support software was written for 
Windows 98, ME or NT. They do have the more modern REL driver, but I 
have been unable to find the cost for it.

One drive I am considering is the SureServo SVA-2100.  The quoted price 
new with 2 Year warranty is very close to or lower than the prices 
listed for used HA-655-4-200 recommended in the Actuator manual.

I do have a spare 750W driver that came with my spare Mill servo, that I 
plan on using to test function.

I prefer to use step and direction to feed the driver, and would rather 
buy than build.

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 5:38 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 22:20, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> My Bad it should have been this link
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-40C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964401976?hash=item1a11993138:g:3JsAAOSwSzdXCcXg
> Don't rush into buying one. I set up a search on eBay and got mine for
> $250 after about 2 weeks of looking.
>
> And take note of what I say about the encoder unless you get the
> matching drive.
>
If I am reading this manual correctly this Actuator is 4 wire 
incremental pulse.  What are you using for a driver?


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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 5:06 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 21:45, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> I am contemplating purchase of this one
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-17C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964389396?hash=item1a11990014:g:jCQAAOSwjMJXCcGL
>> If I read it right it has 100 to one step down ratio and 2500 pulses per
>> revolution, I don't know what the E signifies.  I am assuming that the
>> 2500 pulses is for 1 revolution of the Servo motor, not the output drive.
> Be very sure that you can drive the FHA-nnC variant, I think they have
> a serial absolute encoder.
> The (much older) FHA-nnB have ordinary quadrature encoders and hall sensors.
>
My Bad it should have been this link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-40C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964401976?hash=item1a11993138:g:3JsAAOSwSzdXCcXg


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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 4:13 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 20:33, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> I found this
>> http://harmonicdrive.de/mage/media/catalog/category/1018853_FHA_C_en.pdf
>> reference on harmonic drives
>> and noticed the 25 or 32 etc in the model number seemed to reflect
>> approximately the internal bore of the hollow shaft.  I have some desire
>> to be able to move things from my lathe to the Mill and since the lathe
>> spindle bore is 40MM it sounds like a choice of 40 would be practical.
>>   From the dimensions in the above catalog seem to still fit within a
>> 250MM swing or in my case 10"(254mm).
>>
>> Is this above catalog representative of the offerings on ebay?
> Slightly more dimensions here:
> http://www.harmonicdrive.net/products/rotary-actuators/hollow-shaft-actuators/fha-c
>
> Bores are slightly larger than size-code.
>
> The larger sizes might make it easier to mount a D1 spindle nose, but
> the problem that 6 into 8 doesn't go remains.
> FHA17 has 6 holes, but is probably too small.
>
I am contemplating purchase of this one 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-17C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964389396?hash=item1a11990014:g:jCQAAOSwjMJXCcGL
If I read it right it has 100 to one step down ratio and 2500 pulses per 
revolution, I don't know what the E signifies.  I am assuming that the 
2500 pulses is for 1 revolution of the Servo motor, not the output drive.

I think once satisfied with the 4th Axis I may want to play with an 
FHA17 as a 5th axis.

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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 3:14 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
>>
>> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com
> Do they list the entire spindle? It would save some machining.
That was my thoughts as well they list it but say it is na.

I think I will buy the camlocks and start there.  I like your split 
model but how would you machine the recesses for the cam lock? ball 
mill?  You mention making a casting.  Do you think it would accommodate 
the 40 MM size as well?
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 2:09 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 18:15, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> SkyFire the builder of my mill offers a complete
>> ready to hook to my Mesa 7I86 8" Harmonic Drive for about $2000.  It
>> isn't my dream solution, but doesn't break my bank either.
> Looking at the spec and the screws holding the rotary table on, it
> might be a very similar drive internally.
>
> But being stepper-driven I assume not exactly the same.
>
I found this 
http://harmonicdrive.de/mage/media/catalog/category/1018853_FHA_C_en.pdf 
reference on harmonic drives
and noticed the 25 or 32 etc in the model number seemed to reflect 
approximately the internal bore of the hollow shaft.  I have some desire 
to be able to move things from my lathe to the Mill and since the lathe 
spindle bore is 40MM it sounds like a choice of 40 would be practical.  
 From the dimensions in the above catalog seem to still fit within a 
250MM swing or in my case 10"(254mm).

Is this above catalog representative of the offerings on ebay?

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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 10:01 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> How are you  approaching this project?   I am assuming that you
>> are starting with a plate that will be attached to the 4th axis and
>> machining that plate to accept the cam lock studs and cam locks.  In my
>> case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US
>> $36.  Are there any precautions that I should watch for when I attempt
>> this project?
> The basis of the project is a harmonic drive with integral motor and
> through-shaft.
> I have an FHA-25 size, but FHA-32 might be better.
>
> The current model drives (FHA-25C) seem to have a serially interfaced
> encoder, which looks complicated.
> The FHA-25B is a model that HD have no data on, but I found a document from 
> ESO
> http://www.ls.eso.org/lasilla/support/electronics/Documentation/PDF/3P6-DSD-ESO-60400-0001.pdf
> Which gives the pinout and wire colours (if you look carefully) and
> that is a simple quadrature encoder + hall sensor setup and so rather
> easier to drive.
>
> eBay has a few of these drives, at widely differing prices, some with
> the dedicated servo amp.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=FHA-25B_PrefLoc=2&_sop=15
>
> Mine is a FHA-25B-3015-E150C-SP
>
> I am making a pattern to make a cast-iron housing for bolting to my
> mill table, designed around a max swing of 250mm. Making extra
> castings is trivial at that point.
>
> The output face of the drive has a circle of 8 x M6 holes on a 74mm
> PCD. This is actually slightly awkward for a D1-4 spindle nose, which
> has 3 pins and tangential retainers. I could only get 3 bolts in if I
> kept the standard tangential retainers, so I am using axial retainers.
> D1-5 already has axial retainers, but also has 6 studs.
>
> I have modelled the D1-5 nose and attempted to fit the 74mm PCD holes
> in. It's not pretty. two of the holes are impossible, I think, and the
> others need to be counterbored so deep that the heads are lower than
> the D1 cams (or they have to go through them). And they eat into the
> retaining taper.
> http://a360.co/2nMOEnm should let you view the 3D-model of the D1-4.
That looks like a D1-5 to me.  As my starting point I have a 10" Rotary 
table that I have fitted with small stepper.  I will use it to do form 
and fit experiments.  I am contemplating either purchase of building a 
Harmonic drive system.  SkyFire the builder of my mill offers a complete 
ready to hook to my Mesa 7I86 8" Harmonic Drive for about $2000.  It 
isn't my dream solution, but doesn't break my bank either.  I still need 
to do more research into Harmonic Drives to determine what is feasible.
>
> I think that the answer would be to make the dummy-spindle-nose in two
> parts, one that bolts to the harmonic drive, and then a second section
> that bolts to that which has the taper.
> (then in-situ grind the locating taper, ideally).



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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

Should be GO709

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g0709/parts


On 3/23/17 12:49 PM, hubert wrote:
> If you look in the GO790 Manual or parts list it shows the part.
>
>
> On 3/23/17 12:20 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>>> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
>>> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com
>> Pity there is no picture to be sure that it is the right part.
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

If you look in the GO790 Manual or parts list it shows the part.


On 3/23/17 12:20 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
>> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com
> Pity there is no picture to be sure that it is the right part.
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.

http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com


On 3/23/17 10:01 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>> In my
>> case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US
>> $36.
> Link?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

Andy

I really like your Idea of using the Cam lock approach for a 4Axis 
chuck adapter.  In my case I have 3 chucks for my lathe that uses D1-5 
spindle so it gives much versatility If I could also use them on my 4th 
Axis.  How are you  approaching this project?   I am assuming that you 
are starting with a plate that will be attached to the 4th axis and 
machining that plate to accept the cam lock studs and cam locks.  In my 
case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US 
$36.  Are there any precautions that I should watch for when I attempt 
this project?

Hubert Bahr


On 3/22/17 6:40 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 22 March 2017 at 23:33, Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> OK... 4th axis chuck.I get it.
> Well, to be clear, a 4th-axis spindle-nose
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] nema 24 motors.

[hubert]

I see all the concern about resonance stalls with steppers.  When I 
switched to Gecko 250 drivers I stopped having these problems. I see 60 
ipm with no problems on direct drive and 5 tpi ball screws.  They were a 
little more expensive but a lot less trouble.  I can't remember the 
stated solution for the resonance solution but in my experience it works.

Hubert


On 1/24/17 8:49 AM, Ed wrote:
> On 01/23/2017 11:45 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> I see some "Nema 24" motors at quite reasonable prices showing up on
>> fleabay,
> SNIP
>> Now, I don't believe this is going to help with the resonance stalls I am
>> getting at about 30 ipm, so I'm thinking of building a viscous damper to
>> fit on the rear of this puppy.  But unlike the ones on my hf micromill,
>> which are long steel spools carrying a 2+ inch stack of heavy fender
>> washers with elastomer sheets between the washers, which are true shock
>> absorbers as the resonance is killed by the frictional losses as the
>> washers walk on the talcum covered elastomer, but I don't have room for
>> a 2+" stack of fender washers in this spot. 5/8" axially at best.
> SNIP
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> RANT MODE ON
>
> Why in this day of cheap encoders, small ebay servo motors, and good
> inexpensive servo drives does any one even use stepper motors?
>
> Dampers, resonance issues, lost steps, stalls, only 30 IPM? Why?
>
> Gene, don't stay on the dark side! Go to servo's and don't look back,
> you will never regret it.
>
> RANT MODE OFF
>
> deflates-
>
> Ed.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Absolute encoders

[hubert]

It looked interesting until I translated the model #.  To me it looks 
like it is 512 counts per turn for 8 turns.  No where near the implied 
4096 counts for up to 4096 turns.

Hubert


On 12/19/16 11:30 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> These look like something of a bargain:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-BEI-Absolute-Multi-turn-Encoders-HMT25-Gray-Code-/261822092613?hash=item3cf5d01545:g:o~EAAOSw-7RVEBEQ
>
> $100 each.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Rigid Tapping

[hubert]

I like most of the suggestions except the MDF because it tends to wear 
out cutters.  I ordered a small amount of machinable wax, it will be 
here tomorrow, but I am in a hurry so I will try the bolt and nut 
approach today.  If that works I will test on a small chunk of delrin, 
if that goes well I will tackle the aluminum.

Thanks

Hubert


On 11/17/16 1:08 PM, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> You could practise with a piece of threaded rod(or bolt) in the chuck, and
> a nut held lightly in the vice. If the nut moves up or down during the tap
> cycle there's a problem. If you start with taps, a post mortem on a cut
> thread would be more difficult.
>
>
> On 17 November 2016 at 19:27, Kirk Wallace <kwall...@wallacecompany.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/17/2016 09:12 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> On 17 November 2016 at 17:01, Kirk Wallace <kwall...@wallacecompany.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> Machinable wax comes to mind for testing. It is easy to make and reuse.
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[Emc-users] Rigid Tapping

[hubert]

I have a step and Direction driven AC Servo spindle with encoder output 
that is supposedly capable of rigid tapping.  I want to tap some 1/4 
inch aluminum with M3x0.5 spiral flute HSS tap. Initially I have the 
spindle speed set at 150 rpm.  What type of tapping cycle should I use,  
Continuous, or some type of peck cycle.  Also what are your 
recommendations at some test trials to get the feel of the Machines 
capabilities.  I have on hand up to 8mm taps, should I try one of those 
first.  I hope not to break a tap in a part that already has time 
invested in it.  I know I could hand tap them, but that wouldn't give me 
experience in rigid tapping.

Thanks

Hubert



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[Emc-users] Moving past Home Switch

[hubert]

Is there any way to move past home position.

Each of my Axis, X, Y, and Z use three sensors to provide inputs for min 
and max limits and Homing.  We have the Home switch set about 1 inch 
inside the max limit switch.  However, We need to raise the Z axis above 
the home switch but inside the limit switch for the head to clear the 
tool changer.   Also for some parts we need to make use of more of the 
table than the Home switch allows.  Is this a miss-configuration problem 
or a deficiency? When we try to move past the home switch the machine 
refuses to move.

Hubert


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Re: [Emc-users] converting from mm to inches

[hubert]

The solution I am using is put G20  in RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE of the 
original ini file.  Then each time I startup, I select inch in view.  
Much easier than recomputing all the velocity and acceleration values.

On my other mill's I had always used Stepconf and selected Inches.  This 
is the first time I've needed to change units.

I still need to get all configuration parameters from the vendor, as I 
still have the ATC, Tool setter and Reneshaw probe to add into the 
system.  This is based on a Mesa 5I25 7I76 interface.

Hubert


On 10/18/16 8:04 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 October 2016 04:44:00 andy pugh wrote:
>
>> On 18 October 2016 at 04:05, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>>> My machine was initially setup by my vendor to mm.  Personally I
>>> prefer inches.
>> You can just set the GUI to display inches and issue a G20 (?) command
>> and the machine will be, effectively, an imperial machine.
>> (I am not sure it is G20, as I very rarely swap units, and the main
>> linuxcnc site seems to be down from here)
> You are correct Andy, G20 is inches, G21 is mm's for input code units.
>
> But he'll likely have to revert all his .ini file changes before it will
> work right. He can preset that at linuxcnc startup time by editing the
> initialization string in the axis.ini file if he is using axis.
>
> Example from TLM:
> [RS274NGC]
> RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE=G8 G18 G21 G40 G49 G64 P.005 Q.005 G80 G90 G94 G97
>
> Thats for a lathe of course as G7/G8 is lathe specific
> And the G18 sets the active axis's to x/z for g2/g3 moves.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] converting from mm to inches

[hubert]

This is not my only machine.  I had adjusted the velocity and 
acceleration values to the same range as those in my old machines that 
were set up initially in inches.  These values are 1/25 those of the 
values in the mm file.  I think I will generate a sample file using 
Pncconf to double check.  While some of the values showed up in Axis, it 
still showed values in mm/sec.  Thus the question, are there other files 
that are impacted as well as my_mill.ini?


On 10/17/16 10:33 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> When you change the machine units to inches, you need to change all the
> velocity and accel parameters.  They're just numbers, the unit is
> assumed, and changing from mm to inches makes that number 25.4x slower
> outright.
>
> Danny
>
>
> On 10/17/2016 10:05 PM, hubert wrote:
>> My machine was initially setup by my vendor to mm.  Personally I prefer
>> inches.  When I tried to adjust things in the .ini file it results in
>> the machine crawling.  Is there another place I need to make changes.  I
>> changed units from mm to in.
>> Thanks
>> Hubert
>>
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[Emc-users] converting from mm to inches

[hubert]

My machine was initially setup by my vendor to mm.  Personally I prefer 
inches.  When I tried to adjust things in the .ini file it results in 
the machine crawling.  Is there another place I need to make changes.  I 
changed units from mm to in.
Thanks
Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Using CNC mill to hack a gantry Crane

[hubert]

Actually the flange in question is on the simplest end.  The other end 
of the tube has more features.  I am inexperienced in welding and may 
consider taking it to a professional.  I have welded angle iron together 
to make table frames, but in this case I feel it needs to be super 
accurate as it forms the base to the vertical riser.  At this stage I 
have made all the band saw cuts. I do have carbide inserts for my face 
mill which I will use to finish smoothing the flange that forms the 
bottom of the riser.  I will use a large endmill to square off end of 
the tube.  Since this area hasn't been welded, I will use HSS.

Thanks for the various comments, they gave needed insight.

Hubert


On 10/16/16 8:23 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> Hubert,
>
> You might want to consider leaving the flange in place and to cut the
> tubing to shorten it/lengthen it.
> If you are making it shorter, chances are it will be stronger than needed.
> If your bandsaw makes a bad cut, mark the tubing, and grind it square.
>
> Dave
>
> On 10/15/2016 10:57 PM, hubert wrote:
>> I am wanting to cut down a 1000lb rated gantry crane to a size that will
>> fit my Shop.  This crane is made from 2" rectangular tubing.  I will do
>> the initial cutting with a Harbor Freight band saw, but I can't count on
>> it giving true 90 degree cuts.  My thoughts are to true the cut surface
>> with my mill.  I will also be cutting off the flange that will be welded
>> back on the tubing.  My thoughts were to use the mill true the surface
>> of the flange.
>>   My questions are related to the welds that I am trimming off. Will
>> they cause problems for the mill?  Is it better to use High steel or
>> carbide?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hubert
>>
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[Emc-users] Using CNC mill to hack a gantry Crane

[hubert]

I am wanting to cut down a 1000lb rated gantry crane to a size that will 
fit my Shop.  This crane is made from 2" rectangular tubing.  I will do 
the initial cutting with a Harbor Freight band saw, but I can't count on 
it giving true 90 degree cuts.  My thoughts are to true the cut surface 
with my mill.  I will also be cutting off the flange that will be welded 
back on the tubing.  My thoughts were to use the mill true the surface 
of the flange.
My questions are related to the welds that I am trimming off. Will 
they cause problems for the mill?  Is it better to use High steel or 
carbide?

Thanks
Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Question on Renishaw MP3 IR probe

[hubert]

Renishaw replied that it used a 12 volt rechargeable but the probe 
became obsolete in the 90s.  I have decided to assemble either a 10.8 or 
14.4 battery out of rechargeable Lithium Button cells and see how that 
works.


On 10/1/16 1:58 PM, Florian Rist wrote:
> Hi Hubert
>
>> Does anybody know what batteries a Renishaw MP3 IR probe with a round
>> battery compartment uses.  All the current literature shows a
>> compartment with 2 9-volt batteries.
> The OMP40 (and some other probes as well) uses two 1/2 AA 3.6V lithium
> batteries. These batteries are about 25mm long, so two are only slightly
> longer than a 9V block. The diameter of the 1/2 AAs is 14.5mm. Maybe the
> MP3 also uses 1/2 AAs.
>
> See you
> Florian
>
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[Emc-users] Question on Renishaw MP3 IR probe

[hubert]

Does anybody know what batteries a Renishaw MP3 IR probe with a round 
battery compartment uses.  All the current literature shows a 
compartment with 2 9-volt batteries.
Thanks

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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[hubert]

I've also ordered some of the QSE159s plus some of the recommended LED's 
to go with them.  My probe is due in tomorrow but the testing will have 
to wait since it appears my new SkyFire LinuxCNC machine has turned into 
a kit instead of ready to run.  I miss measured my Door opening to my 
shop.  This Mill will not go in fully assembled, so it has to be taken 
apart and reassembled once the pieces have been moved into my shop.  Not 
quite as much labor as retrofitting a manual mill, but it will 
definitely get me close and personal to all the components.


On 9/25/16 7:48 AM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> I believe that Jon Elson suggested the QSE159. Digikey has it in stock for
> about $1.50. It includes a Schmidt trigger for noise immunity and the
> datasheet doesn't mention anything about bandpass filtering.
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Sarah Armstrong [mailto:sarahj.armstron...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:24 AM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to
>> interface ?
>>
>> anyone suggest a better infra red detector than the AX-1838HS
>>
>> as i see it's band pass is just about centered on 38Khz , and if i am
> correct these
>> probes are around 100 - 150Khz so i'll need something better , iv'e not
> done
>> much with Infra-red , so if you parden the pun , i'm in the dark ! lol "
>>
>> iv'e found a remote in the house that actually activates the probe , and
> starts it
>> . so thats something close . but i'm wondering if just about any sender
> would
>> do it , as it's working on a carrier rather than code
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 September 2016 at 13:07, Ken Strauss 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looking at the drawing that Sarah was kind enough to supply, the
>>> Renishaw
>>> MP10
>>> is about 5 inches plus the probe. That wouldn't be too bad to fit on
>>> my Tormach 770 which is a mid-sized hobby machine.
>>>
 -Original Message-
 From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:49 PM
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know
 how
>>> to
 interface ?

 On 22 September 2016 at 16:02, Ken Strauss
 
 wrote:

> I've never handled a MP3 so...
> Most of the MP3 probes listed on eBay include a CAT40 or CAT50
> taper.
> Is this easily removable? If removable what is the native shank
> for a MP3?
>
 Yes. The probe mounts to the shank with 4 screws and then a ball in
 the probe fits in a hole in the shank. The screws don't pull up
 tight, you adjust
>>> them
 like a
 4-jaw chuck to centre the probe tip.

 I used a BT30 boring-bar adaptor (they are cheaper than metal from
 eBay)
>>> and
 fitted a adaptor to increase the diameter enough for the screws:
 https://goo.gl/photos/sRDrZbNsnT3z1tuN9

 The MP3 is not a particularly small probe. If you have a tiny
 machine
>>> then
 you
 might want something littler.


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 designed
>>> for
 the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
 - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Anybody have an idea how...

[hubert]

On 9/23/16 12:02 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> I just had a heck of a day.  That round bar of alu fell out of my mailbox
> the middle of the afternoon, so I thought I would get started on cutting
> out that custom timing sprocket hub.  Sawed off the length I needed
> (first cut on my repaired bandsaw, cut nice) and chucked it up on TLM.
>
> Spying a well worn boreing bar about the right size in the stuff I got
> with the Sheldon, I clamped it up good and tight in a tool holder &
> adjusted everything to center it, started TLM at about 200 revs and
> marched into the end face, intending to bore straight in to the depth it
> would take to clear the nut on the near end of the X drive shaft.
> Pecking by hand, I was getting a nice coil of alu cuttings for about the
> first half inch, then it twisted itself out of the holder.  Repeat 3
> more times.  Gotta be a better way, spied the little QC's boring bar
> holder & moved the tool to it, tightening its clamp screws to about 1/8
> turn from stripped.  Hung it up and spun it out of the holder, polishing
> the but end of the bar rather nicely.  Repeat a couple times, with stops
> in between to sharpen it with one of those 1.75" Dremel diamond wheels.
> Same story, spun it in the holder 2 more times, gave up and put a 3/8
> drill in the holder.  That worked for a starter hole and the bar then
> ran in and tried to uniform the hole, looking decent but taking a much
> wider chip after it got into the drilled portion.  So I think I can
> write some code in the morning to finish those two bore jobs.
>
> So what I am looking for is a bb holder that will work with the smallest
> QC holder.  And will hold it solidly in the face of a 1 horse motor's
> solid torque.
I am no expert but I know on my 14" lathe that many of my boring bars 
have flats on one side that keeps them from twisting in the tool 
holder.  With these I am more likely to spin work in the chuck than the 
tool holder.
How is the wife doing?  I lost my first one to Cancer about 4 years 
ago.  That interrupted my self taught machining for a while.
Good Luck
Hubert
>
> Ideas welcome.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[hubert]

On 9/20/16 11:12 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 09/20/2016 06:27 PM, hubert wrote:
>> Jon
>>
>> I ordered some QSE159's to use as detectors and some ir leds for
>> generating turn on.  I have an FPGA board and some arduino's to try for
>> the control logic.  One question.  If an FPGA can be used for the
>> control logic, couldn't the FPGA on the Mesa card be programmed to
>> include this?
> Undoubtedly so.  But, I am a competitor to Mesa, and so tend
> to use my OWN gear!
I understand your preference.  The Mesa boards was the LinuxCNC Options 
Skyfire offered when I ordered my machine.  The FPGA development board I 
picked up to start my probe work has the Xilinx XC6SLX9 TQG144 FPGA.
> I have a board with a Spartan XC3S50AN, a small FPGA with
> built-in config EPROM that I usually sell as a converter for
> Fanuc serial encoders.  It had just the right complement of
> input and output converters.
>
> If you know FPGA programming, then dive right in.  That's an
> art not too many CNC guys are up to speed on.
I won't claim I was ever an expert, and I am certainly cold on the 
subject.  I haven't fired up a development kit since I retired from 
teaching Computer Engineering in 2008,  but we used the Xilinx Spartan 
and Vertex families for introducing our Students to embedded computing.
>> I do think initially this should be done separately until
>> everything is well understood, but it just doesn't appear that should be
>> very complicated in FPGA terms.
>>
> No, the trouble with the Blum probe was figuring out exactly
> what it wanted for turn-on and turn-off.
> I was flying fairly blind, and just increased and decreased
> pulse width, pulse frequency and burst length until I got a
> reliable turn-on/off.  I started with a pulse generator, and
> when I had come up with boundaries on all these, I set the
> FPGA for the middle of those ranges.
It will be a while before I will start getting results.  I need to pick 
up the Mill and then find a way to get it into my shop.  The shop is a 
converted bedroom with only a 36" door opening out on a backyard Patio.  
With luck we will get it wired in this weekend, with probeand parts 
should arriving Early Next week.
> Once the probe was turned on, figuring out the output data
> pattern was completely trivial.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[hubert]

Jon

I ordered some QSE159's to use as detectors and some ir leds for 
generating turn on.  I have an FPGA board and some arduino's to try for 
the control logic.  One question.  If an FPGA can be used for the 
control logic, couldn't the FPGA on the Mesa card be programmed to 
include this?  I do think initially this should be done separately until 
everything is well understood, but it just doesn't appear that should be 
very complicated in FPGA terms.


On 9/20/16 11:59 AM, Sarah Armstrong wrote:
> Guy's
> i'm looking at my renishaw probes , i'm not sure if i am seeing this
> correctly
> but apart from decoding the stream , i'm seeing  when not touching the
> probe emits a signal at about 150khz. When it senses touch it goes up to
> 160khz.
> but at the moment i'm not sure , as the only ir detectors i have works at
> 38k
> i'm using an arduino for quickness , although i would be using a stm32 once
> iv'e figured it all out
> https://arduino-info.wikispaces.com/IR-RemoteControl
>
>
> On 20 September 2016 at 00:57, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> This thread and it's follow on triggered my interest, so I just snagged
>> a Renishaw MP3 probe on Ebay and now face the task of interfacing this
>> to my New CNC mill which I am due to pickup later this week.  I ordered
>> the mill with LinuxCNC using the Mesa cards to interface to the
>> computer.  The mill uses Servo's on X,Y,Z.  It is a small mill with a 12
>> position tool changer, thus I am hoping to put the probe in one of the
>> pockets and use it to sense work-piece position, and also to digitize.
>> While this is my Hobby mill I am hoping to get close to 100micro inches
>> repeatability.  I would appreciate any pointers to available data for
>> building/buying a relatively inexpensive transmitter receiver for this
>> purpose.
>>
>>
>> On 9/8/16 11:07 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> On 09/08/2016 09:56 AM, Florian Rist wrote:
>>>> Hi Jon
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I thought about building a receiver out of various
>>>>> parts, but there are application specific parts that combine
>>>>> all this in one unit.  Most are made with 38 KHz band pass
>>>>> filters for VCR remote controls,
>>>> Yes, that's why I didn't even look into theses integrated devices.
>>>>
>>>>> but the QSE159 does not
>>>>> have the BPF, looked to be sensitive enough, and was really
>>>>> cheap ($1.06)
>>>> Indeed, interesting.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if it is sensitive enough, 0.25 mW/cm² worst case translates to
>>>> 2.5W/m², that's quite a lot. But, now that I started looking, there are
>>>> quite a few similar integrated devices available, some with much high
>>>> sensitivity down to at least 10µW/cm². However most are lacking the
>>>> Schmitt-trigger of the QSE159, nice part, that you found, I'm going to
>>>> get one, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I have no idea what the radiated power of the Blum probe is,
>>> but it has 12 big surface-mount LEDs arranged around the
>>> periphery.  The QSE sensor picks it up very well out past
>>> 6", which is all the sensitivity I will need.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[hubert]

Hi All

This thread and it's follow on triggered my interest, so I just snagged 
a Renishaw MP3 probe on Ebay and now face the task of interfacing this 
to my New CNC mill which I am due to pickup later this week.  I ordered 
the mill with LinuxCNC using the Mesa cards to interface to the 
computer.  The mill uses Servo's on X,Y,Z.  It is a small mill with a 12 
position tool changer, thus I am hoping to put the probe in one of the 
pockets and use it to sense work-piece position, and also to digitize.  
While this is my Hobby mill I am hoping to get close to 100micro inches 
repeatability.  I would appreciate any pointers to available data for 
building/buying a relatively inexpensive transmitter receiver for this 
purpose.


On 9/8/16 11:07 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 09/08/2016 09:56 AM, Florian Rist wrote:
>> Hi Jon
>>
>>> Yes, I thought about building a receiver out of various
>>> parts, but there are application specific parts that combine
>>> all this in one unit.  Most are made with 38 KHz band pass
>>> filters for VCR remote controls,
>> Yes, that's why I didn't even look into theses integrated devices.
>>
>>> but the QSE159 does not
>>> have the BPF, looked to be sensitive enough, and was really
>>> cheap ($1.06)
>> Indeed, interesting.
>>
>> Not sure if it is sensitive enough, 0.25 mW/cm² worst case translates to
>> 2.5W/m², that's quite a lot. But, now that I started looking, there are
>> quite a few similar integrated devices available, some with much high
>> sensitivity down to at least 10µW/cm². However most are lacking the
>> Schmitt-trigger of the QSE159, nice part, that you found, I'm going to
>> get one, too.
>>
>>
> I have no idea what the radiated power of the Blum probe is,
> but it has 12 big surface-mount LEDs arranged around the
> periphery.  The QSE sensor picks it up very well out past
> 6", which is all the sensitivity I will need.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Toolchange M6

[hubert]

I can't say for the current version of LinuxCNC but back in EMC2 2.2 
(2009) someone provided me with a script that I ran and it allowed me to 
jog during tool change.  If you would like me to dig it up.  I will try 
to find it and the documentation.  I am still running it on a mini-mill 
I converted.
Hubert

On 4/16/16 7:06 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> Then as Andy mentioned I think that you're stuck with forcing everyone to
> use only one tool per file since  I don't believe tht LinuxCNC allows
> jogging or adjusting offsets during a tool change. Just setup a dummy tool
> table with all offsets set to a constant.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Danny Miller [mailto:dan...@austin.rr.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 7:40 PM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Toolchange M6
>>
>> So I will not have a "tool table". That's a nonstarter.   I don't
>> provide bits, people will use whatever they like (a very large range!) and
> the
>> CAM stage is their business, not a machine issue.  I wouldn't require them
> to
>> mod out the tooltable file to match their bits, nor would I even allow it.
>>
>> I don't see what purpose a tool table serves here.  T1 could be a 1/8"
>> with 1.5" past the nut, or a 1/4" 3" long.  The machine's never going to
> do
>> radius compensation, the CAM stage is what accommodates the cutter dia.
>> Been standard for a very long time to do that.  The bit length won't
> matter
>> because it's manually zeroed, making zero either the top of the stock or
> the
>> bottom (depends on datum choice).
>>
>> Collar bits won't be used much at all.  When they are, you could say "The
> z-axis
>> was zeroed with the T1 3" outside-the-nut bit's tip, now we're switching
> to T2
>> which is only 1.5" outside-the-nut" and adjust automatically.  But that
> will
>> NEVER happen.  We don't use collar bits often and it's not a simple thing
> to
>> have new users set up.  They'll just have to zero for the second bit.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> On 4/16/2016 6:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Can't say as I can answer that as I've never had a config that didn't
>>> have the manual tool changer code in it.  OTOH, I have files that
>>> change to tool at 4 different stages in the file, and as long as t1 in
>>> pocket 1 are defined, it works.  I have about 17 entries in the tool
>>> table for my newest mill, and am using those Chinese TTS tool holders
>>> in R8 chucks so tool length is a known value until I break the tool
>>> and have to recalibrate a new one.  I know this is not much help, but
>>> for me it Just Works(TM).
>>>
>>>> -
>>>> -
>>>>  Find and fix application performance issues faster with
>>>> Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance
>>>> insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It
>>>> resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your
>>>> free trial!
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>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Buying a LinuxCNC controlled Mill

[hubert]

On 4/6/16 11:12 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 6 April 2016 at 16:53, hubert <h...@hbahr.org> wrote:
>
>> They currently use drivers that convert step and direction to servo
>> control and have BOB that uses usb to talk to the computer.  While it
>> would be easy for me to just continue using those drivers I am not
>> certain that would take full advantage of LinuxCNC.
> In principle, sending a pulse-stream as a velocity command is not so
> different from sending an analogue voltage.
> Do you know what communication methods are available at the drive end?
>
They sent me a copy of the driver manual but it is going to take me a 
while to digest its 73 pages.
>>   I need to determine what kind of BOB to install in the machine that
>> both allows them test the machine before shipment and me to easily hook
>> it up to my computer when it arrives.
> I would be tempted to ask them to check with their normal interface,
> then not ship it. But I don't know much about the system.
They are going to check it with Mach 3 and then not ship their usb 
interface.  I still have a couple of weeks to finalize the wiring.
>
>>   Also which type on encoder should I ask for.  Incremental or Absolute.
> Incremental is likely to be easier just because it has been done so
> many times. Do you know what the data format of the absolute encoders
> is?
> I personally like absolute encoders, but then I also like a challenge
> :-). Mesa have an interface for SSI and BiSS encoders, but I don't
> know of anyone who has actually used them on a machine yet.
The servo comes with an embedded Incremental encoder so for the time 
being I will stick with that.  Intuitively I like the idea  of absolute 
better, but if I have a functional system to work with I could play with 
different encoders at a later date.

Thanks for the answers, It gave me enough to come up with a game plan.  
I decided to go with the Mesa 7I76-6I25 PNG kit.  I will start working 
with that to give me some experience.  At this time I don't have any 
servos on hand but I do have steppers and encoders so I can start 
playing with a feedback loop, HalScope etc.  To date I have only used 
steppers with Gecko drivers through a parallel port with software stepping.

   The US distributor of the mill also ordered the same Mesa set and 
plans to take it back with him to China when the get to the testing 
phase so they can try things before shipping.  He has interest in 
offering a LinuxCNC solution as well their other control solutions.

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[Emc-users] Buying a LinuxCNC controlled Mill

[hubert]

I am ordering a mill that I would like to control with LinuxCNC. The 
basic Mill is the SkyFire CNC SVN-2P-1A with specs at 
http://www.skyfirecnc.com/picshow.asp?id=37.  I am dropping the default 
Mach 3 controller and getting it prepared for LinuxCNC.  My plan is to 
use my low profile computer with a pci-express buss with a Mesa card and 
hostmot2.  I am also looking at using a touch panel with the Touchy 
gui.  Since this is my first attempt using Servos I need some help.  
They currently use drivers that convert step and direction to servo 
control and have BOB that uses usb to talk to the computer.  While it 
would be easy for me to just continue using those drivers I am not 
certain that would take full advantage of LinuxCNC.
 I need to determine what kind of BOB to install in the machine that 
both allows them test the machine before shipment and me to easily hook 
it up to my computer when it arrives.
 Also which type on encoder should I ask for.  Incremental or Absolute.
I am also going to ask them to prewire for an additional 2 rotary 
axis.  I currently have stepper controlled using Gecko 540.

Help!

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Changing From Mach3 to LinuxCNC questions

[hubert]

The machine had an OEM license that is not transferable to the new 
owner.  The OEM is no longer in business so to get updates etc it takes 
a new individual license.  If the computer or disk drive die you may 
have no backup.  Probably I could use it for some time and wait to 
purchase the license when I needed to replace computer or disk drive.  
In essence while I was using it in that form it would be considered an 
unlicensed copy.  I prefer not to use unlicensed software.

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:18:24 -0500 From: Dave Cole 
<linuxcncro...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Changing From Mach3 
to LinuxCNC questions To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: 
<56faff30.9040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Why do you have to buy Mach3 if it was already controlling the machine? 
Dave On 3/29/2016 2:06 PM, hubert wrote:
>> I am purchasing a used CNC Mill using Stepper motors and a BLDC Spindle
>> motor.  It currently is using Mach3 with a usb smooth stepper
>> interface.  I found out I will either have to purchase Mach3, or as I
>> prefer convert it to use LinuxCNC.  Since this is a much higher
>> performance system than I currently have, I am thinking something such
>> as Mesa 7I76-6I25 PNG KIT might be just the ticket to enable the
>> conversion.  I would appreciate comments/suggestions.
>> --
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>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
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>
>


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[Emc-users] Changing From Mach3 to LinuxCNC questions

[hubert]

I am purchasing a used CNC Mill using Stepper motors and a BLDC Spindle 
motor.  It currently is using Mach3 with a usb smooth stepper 
interface.  I found out I will either have to purchase Mach3, or as I 
prefer convert it to use LinuxCNC.  Since this is a much higher 
performance system than I currently have, I am thinking something such 
as Mesa 7I76-6I25 PNG KIT might be just the ticket to enable the 
conversion.  I would appreciate comments/suggestions.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[hubert]

I have been following this thread and finally decided to pitch the 
CAD/CAM solution that I have been using since 2008 after I converted my 
first mill to EMC2.  It is Synergy by Weber Systems. 
http://www.webersys.com/.  It has been around longer than Windows and 
DOS with Unix roots.  It has native code for linux as well as 
MSwindows.  You can download a full featured 30 day trial for Ubuntu and 
Debian plus a variety of others.  In my case I prefer a different 
version of linux and they downloaded and compiled a version for me on my 
machine, so I didn't have to match one of the pre-compiled versions.  
For basic use they have a free version.  I wanted to use a full featured 
version for anything I dreamed up so I payed, one time for the full 
system.  When I have questions I talk directly to the people who 
developed the software, they have taught me more about CNC programing 
than anybody else.  I have looked at some of the others but not really 
tried any since I have been happy with this solution.

Hubert



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Re: [Emc-users] Shizuoka on eBay

[Hubert Bahr]

While I don't need to add a new project at this time this does peak my 
interest, but it brings up some questions.  What type of capabilities 
can we expect to get by retrofitting one of these older NC machines?
  I would think they should be more capable than a Chinese mill 
conversion but what is the chance that you would be left owning an unit 
needing some critical part that you can't afford?
Am I also correct in understanding that a 24 station turret mill means 
that is has room for 24 different tools?
While I am still working on my Small mill conversion after first doing 
a mini mill I still find myself dreaming of even more capability even 
though this is all still a hobby.

 Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 15:38:10 -0700 From: Kirk Wallace 
kwall...@wallacecompany.com Subject: [Emc-users] Shizuoka on eBay 
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: 
51d74ad2.3030...@wallacecompany.com Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed In case someone forgot to buy this: 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085 This one is a little larger 
than my ST-N. It should be around 4,000 lbs. The seller should be able 
to help with arranging shipping. It looks like it has servos and 
resolvers, but mine has steppers, so I don't know for sure. Just add a 
PC and some interface hardware to the existing drivers and power 
supplies. There is a tool changer, but it looks like the arm may be 
missing or doesn't show up in the pictures. The spindle nose looks 
pretty rough. I don't know why it has threads on the OD. If one has 
the space, this could be cheaper and easier than converting a cheap new 
mini mill. Make an offer, and maybe get it cheaper. I have no 
connection to the seller. I just have a soft spot for Shizuokas


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Re: [Emc-users] Synergy Cad Cam

[Hubert Bahr]

Its been a couple of year's since I bought it.  But they did price it on 
request.  Roughly as I remember, Cad was free, 2.5 d was about $150.  I 
was and hope to get back to, trying to build a 5 axis machine.  Family 
Heath problems put that on hold.  2.5 d to my best recall does get you 
indexing on a fourth axis.  What it doesn't give you is cutting while 
moving all axis.  One thing about Synergy.  The default values for 
cutting speed etc. were based on production milling with production 
equipment and tooling, so you need to adjust the values for a typical 
home brew mill.

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] CAM Program

[Hubert Bahr]

Chris
 I use Synergy from Weber systems http://www.webersys.com/ for my 
purposes.  They have a free 30 day trial to determine you want or need 
it.  I ended up going for the total package.  I found the people at 
Weber to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful.  The people you talk to 
actually write and maintain the software.  And have been doing so for a 
long time.

Hubert
 From: Chris Reynoldsc_reynolds2...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [Emc-users] CAM program

 I've been looking at making a complete switch to linux and I wanted to get 
 some input from the group. I've been using EMC to run my milling machine for 
 a couple of years now and I'd like to also start doing all of my cad design 
 as well as generating my machine code. Currently on my windows machine I use 
 Rhino3d for my 3d design work and AutoCAD and Rhino3d for my 2d, then for 2d 
 code creation and manipulation I've been using NCPlot, for 3d code creation 
 I'm using MeshCAM. I'm curious what packages would be recommended for these 
 different applications. I've downloaded and installed QCad and FreeCAD to try 
 out for the design side of things, but it's a program for creating the 
 machine code that I'm needing. Could really use some suggestions from other 
 users.

 Chris



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Re: [Emc-users] Cad software for A axis

[Hubert Bahr]

I use synergy for this purpose.  They have a versions that runs on 
Ubuntu or Windows.  Free full version trial package.  21/2 axis the 
initial cam level was $250 when I bought it.  Whether you need more 
depends on how exotic your cuts are.  All four axis moving 
simultaneously would require the 3d version.  Indexing types of 
operations do not.  I personally have the full solid modeling version 
but I have not required it for cam purposes.

Hubert

Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:
 Kasey Matejcek wrote:
   
 I've got a project to do on my 4 axis mill x,y,z,a running EMC

 A is parallel to to the X axis and is a rotory head the part will between
 centers on the x axis 28 long

 The part file is a 3d model of a cylinder like shape egg shape

 What cad program will work the best to output gcode for machining part on
 the A axis

 


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Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange

[Hubert Bahr]

#!/usr/bin/python
import sys, os
import gettext
BASE = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), ..))
gettext.install(axis, localedir=os.path.join(BASE, share, locale), 
unicode=True)

import emc, hal
import rs274.options
iniFile = emc.ini(os.environ['INI_FILE_NAME'])
emc.nmlfile = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(os.environ['INI_FILE_NAME']), 
iniFile.find(EMC, NML_FILE))

emcStat = emc.stat();
emcCmd = emc.command()

def do_change(n):
emcStat.poll()
curLine = emcStat.current_line
if n:
message = _(Insert tool %d and click continue when ready) % n
else:
message = _(Remove the tool and click continue when ready)
app.wm_withdraw()
app.update()
if curLine =0:
emcCmd.abort()
h.changed = True
app.tk.call(nf_dialog, .tool_change,
_(Tool change), message, info, 0, _(Continue))
if curLine =0:
emcCmd.mode(emc.MODE_AUTO)
emcCmd.auto(emc.AUTO_RUN, curLine + 1)
else:
h.changed = True
app.update()

h = hal.component(hal_manualtoolchange)
h.newpin(number, hal.HAL_S32, hal.HAL_IN)
h.newpin(change, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN)
h.newpin(changed, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
h.ready()

import Tkinter, nf, rs274.options

app = Tkinter.Tk(className=AxisToolChanger)
app.wm_geometry(-60-60)
app.wm_title(_(AXIS Manual Toolchanger))
rs274.options.install(app)
nf.start(app); nf.makecommand(app, _, _)
app.wm_protocol(WM_DELETE_WINDOW, app.wm_withdraw)
lab = Tkinter.Message(app, aspect=500, text = _(\
This window is part of the AXIS manual toolchanger.  It is safe to close \
or iconify this window, or it will close automatically after a few seconds.))
lab.pack()

def withdraw():
app.wm_withdraw()
app.bind(Expose, lambda event: app.wm_withdraw())

app.after(10 * 1000, withdraw)

try:
while 1:
change = h.change
if change and not h.changed:
do_change(h.number)
elif not change:
h.changed = False
app.after(100)
app.update()
except KeyboardInterrupt:
pass
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Re: [Emc-users] Mini mill conversion

[Hubert Bahr]

Martin
For some reason my last several posts haven't shown up on the list 
so I am copying you with this as well.  From what you have said the 
power supply, driver cards and motors all work at this time and although 
you may want to replace them some time it shouldn't be required now.  
The main problem is the driver cards use direct phase inputs instead of 
the standard step, direction and disable.  There is a class of cards 
that run between $80 to $100 such as the 7I43 from Mesa called Anything 
I/O cards that are based on FPGAs  It has the ability to use a parallel 
port on the computer side to change the signals to drive almost anything 
up to 5 volt logic signals.  People have used them for enhance stepper 
controls and are commonly used as a servo interface.  These cards can be 
programmed/reprogrammed from the computer to generate almost any 
sequence of signals for up to 48 I/O connections which are more than 
enough for a 3 Axis mill with all kinds of extra's.  This is what I am 
planning on using to include things like two additional axis, encoder 
feedback spindle speed control etc.  So not only could it be programmed 
to meet your needs now, it could also be changed at a later date to 
interface to whatever driver/motor combos you might choose whether 
stepper or servo.  The interface to EMC on the computer side is already 
done and I am sure your driver side could be completed.  The problem is 
it will take some logic design.  I have the background, you may not, but 
if you want to learn and try I am sure people on the list would provide 
assistance.  It will take time to learn and do it, but like a computer 
program it can be modified until you get it right.  The one thing you 
will want to do is document the signals on the cpu connector from a 
logic analyzer/oscilloscope viewpoint.  Another user suggested using 
Halscope part of EMC2.  I haven't personally used it (I own an 
oscilloscope) so to use it somebody else would need to coach.  Since 
earlier you mentioned breakout boards etc, this may be close to your 
budget range. 

Hubert

Martin Pinkston wrote:
 Wow...that was a lot of stuff
 First of all I have to say that I am really impressed with what some of you
 guys have put on the web as projects.
 Kirk, I went to your web site and you tear into a machine like I tear into a
 locomotive. Your lathe project was impressive. Have you finished it yet ?
 Anyway;
 Each stepper motor has it's own board. And each board has it's own 40V
 supplied to drive the steppers.
 There are actually only 4 wires + a shielded ground wire. HOWEVER the
 motors still work just fine if the ground wire is not screwed to the back
 of the case. So I have to count that as just 4 wires.

 At this point I have to re-think the conversion. Because, I have a couple of
 other priorities that need handled before I invest serious cash into
 re-fitting this mill.
 And at the top of the priority list is building a small machine/work shop in
 my back yard.
 Initially when I considered doing this conversion, I thought it might have
 been a little more doable than it seems to be turning out.
 I don't have any problem with putting in the time (during the winter).
 I do want to learn more about EMC and I would like to attend the
 conference this year.

 Here's a thought I had. I'm wondering why I can't replace the computer SW OS
 with EMC?
 In other use Centroids control box, but instead of using Centroids software
 to communicate with the control box through the serial port, use EMC. I know
 it would be like stepping back 20years for Linux, but I wonder if it would
 be possible to decompile Centroid's SW in order to get EMC what it needed to
 get talking to the big black box?
 I mean, the SW is 20+ years old, could it be that difficult ?
 Now, in light of that last question, I first have to say, YES, I'm guessing
 that it would be very for me. I don't know about the rest of you ;-}

 Just a thought.
 Martin
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Re: [Emc-users] Mini mill conversion

[Hubert Bahr]

Martin Pinkston wrote:
 ...snip

 Andy, the 26 pin header pin out sheet is wrong. the Centroid guy saw a
 picture I took and told me I had a different board than what he initially
 thought should have been in this unit.
 Let me see if I can take a picture of the pin out schematic and post it on
 my blog. www.212steam.blogspot.com
 ...smip
Martin are you sure you only have 4 wires going to each motor.  The new 
pin out on your blog suggests that you should have 6  or  8 wires with 
possibly 2 or 4 of them going to ground and the four you mentioned being 
driven by transistors.  These being the four phases for each motor.  
This pin out also implies that the step and direction are handled by the 
cpu and it is separately developing the phase signals in appropriate 
order to turn the proper direction.  I guess it is possible for each 
winding to have one end tied to ground or power supply at the motor.  
Can you check the resistance of a winding to ground?  Otherwise I don't 
understand 4 phases for each motor with only 4 wires unless they are 
really two phases with their complements.  Does anybody else have an 
explanation for 4 phases with only 4 wires?  The drawing also implies 
that all of the driver cards receive the identical signals and possibly 
some jumpers or switches are used to select which ones are used for the 
particular card.  If you do have another connection to the windings you 
have not located yet it would explain the performance you are getting as 
the resistance would be halved.  The fact that you are only raising 
lowering the quill by steppers also explains why you can get by with the 
same size for Z.
Martin I just looked at some driver schematics using transistors.  It 
showed the power supply feeding through the motor to the transistor.  Do 
you have separate wires running from the power supply to each motor as 
well as the 4 wires that connect to the driver card.  If so what is the 
resistance from  the power cable to each of the phase wires?

Hubert

 I was able to get a couple pics of the pin out header so they will be on my
 blog in just a couple of minutes.

 thanks again guys, I really do admire your knowledge with this stuff.
 ( more than willing to trade some steam engine and machining know how
 on *neruon
 card* for some knowledge on this stuff on *neuron card.*

 Martin
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Re: [Emc-users] Assumption bites twice.....

[Hubert Bahr]

Martin
Ok, old is 23 years the and motors sound like they are round so they 
are probably not rare earth magnetic material so  they will have lower 
performance than newer designs of the same size.  6.8 ohms with only a 
40 volt supply sounds relatively low power since usually the inductance 
goes up with the resistance which limits how fast you can step the 
motor.  (power = torque * speed).  Size sounds like Nema 34 class, but 
Modern Nema 23 could probably give similar performance.   A chopper 
drive is a common drive for stepping motors as you get higher efficiency 
by switching the full voltage on until rated current is reached then off 
and on modulating the current until the step is completed.  Step and 
direction are signals  given to control the drive circuit but are not 
necessarily integral to the drive card on older cards.  You may just 
have the two phases or pulses of the proper duration(one for each 
winding) being supplied.  The relationship of these two pulses is 
determined by an earlier stage that uses the step and direction signals 
to determine that relationship.  While 40 volts can produce more than 3 
amps across 6.8 ohms, modern drive circuits usually use a voltage 10 to 
25 times the static votage  (IR drop) rating.  Somebody on the list may  
be familiar with older bipolar transistor circuits but I am starting to 
think that we may want to start at the machine end.  What is the size of 
the machine.  What is the hardware drive components.  IE.  what is the 
pitch of the leadscrews, are they direct drive or are they timing belt 
driven or gear driven.  If so what is the ratio.  These we can use to 
determine what size motors are needed and how to drive them.  However, 
if you have an oscilloscope and a pulse generator we may be able to 
determine what is functioning and where and what is required to 
interface a Pentium class computer to your hardware.   The age of the 
hardware says you have a bipolar transistor design but it also means 
that most of the circuit is discrete so you probably can reverse 
engineer it.   Only two sided circuit boards and not many IC's and 
probably no custom ICs.  I still have my old Data books around.  So it 
sounds like time vs money tradeoff.  You could replace everything for 
about $200 per Axis maybe less depending on desired performance, or you 
can dig out some test equipment and determine what you have and what it 
takes to/repair or replace it.

Hubert

Martin Pinkston wrote:
 O.k. guys, Now I really feel like an idiot.lol
 You guys are freaking serious about this
 I assumed I would get a little encouragement, but I guess I
 under-assumed the levels of commitment to success that is apparent and
 really kind-a awesome.
 So, from here out I will try to be more open with the sharing of my road
 blocks and the likes.
 Here goes:

 The old (1987) Centroid contoller I have is called a CNC-3. Model number
 CNC-3-B24-MS3

 The control box (approx 2 cubic feet in size) is only half of the system,
 the other half is a computer program running on  DOS. (True DOS)

 There are 6 IC Cards within the box.
 One is a communication card with the RS232. It has 3 header plugs, 4 EProms
 and a battery backup which has long since given up the ghost. The only
 writting on this board is CPU3 REV870830, Copyright 1987, Centroid Corp,
 State College PA I would consider this the mother board of the system.

 Another card is an I/O card and is basically used to control external relays
 which would turn on things like coolant, air, spindle, clamps and the likes.
 It has 2 header plugs. The only writting on this card is Centroid InputG,
 REV 880111

 Then there are the three axis cards and the only writting on these cards is
 Chop2 Rev 880615, copyright Centroid, State College, PA I have the header
 pin out for each of the 2 header on this card.

 The last card is a power supply card. It is fed from the 40V power supply
 and puts out 40V for the bipolar stepper motors, 12V for I/O card and other
 front panel buttons and 5V for the system. The back panel of the box
 indicates that the power supply is 800W

 The stepper motors are thought to be MAE motors. I have gone to MAE web site
 and I can't find the motors. No surprise there, they are over 20 years old.
 But I think they are either 2 or 3 amp motors. The MS3 in the model number
 makes me think 3 amp motors. These motors have 4 wires feeding them red,
 green, black and white. They are 6.5 ohm across the two fields. The physical
 size of the motors are 3.5 in diameter and 4 long with an output shaft out
 the face and back.

 If you give me about a half hour, (it's now 10pm est) I will post pictures
 of each card front and back on my blog. I have 3 or so PDF files which
 describe the pin out config. I can not post pdf files on my blog, but I will
 be happy to send them to you in a .zip file if you wish or one at a time,
 what ever works.

 Stepper motors use step, direction and enable. Chop drives use pulse

Re: [Emc-users] Bitten by the assumption...

[Hubert Bahr]

Martin
They still may be a type of step and direction drive card, or they may 
just be the amplifiers. Choppers are a type of drive for Steppers. How 
much info do you have on the cards. If we could get more information we 
could give more help. Do you know the specs on your power supply. What 
about the winding resistance on your motors. What is the physical size 
of the motors. Any information along these lines would help although 
somebody on this list may already more familiar with Chop2 drive cards 
and Centroid controller. EMC2 can be configured to drive Servo's of 
various types and Steppers the trick is determining which electronic 
hardware components to plug in between the computer and the motor. Then 
again how old is old.

Hubert

Martin Pinkston wrote:
 Good afternoon group.
 Well, my project (converting and old Centroid controller over to EMC2) has
 hit a very large bump in the road. At least for me it's large. Apparently
 the drive cards which I assumed were step and directions drive cards, are
 not. They are Chop2 drive cards.
 So now, I either put the unit back together and forget about the conversion;
 come up with some 4 signal to 3 signal interface, or switch out the drive
 cards and find a drive card that will interface with the C10 to the motors.
 I have an e-mail out to Centroid to see if these motors are stepper motors
 or chop motors. So far what I can find on the internet show that they are
 stepper motors.
 Thanks,
 Martin
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Changing Mid-Operation

[Hubert Bahr]

I had this same problem and wanted to use MDI to move the table and Z 
axis to make the tool change and zero the Z axis.  Leslie Newell created 
a revised hal_manualtoolchange which I have attached.  The exchanges 
that explain it were under Using MDI during a Program? starting about 
june 24 09 should be in the Archives.  I guess we need to get it on the 
Wiki sometime.  This works very nicely for me.  Since MDI keeps track of 
the location when you hit continue it moves to the proper locations and 
continues.  Some time I forget to rezero the Z axis so I started doing 
to make a mdi z move to verify that everything is as planned before 
hitting continue.  Also make sure when you zero that you are in state.  
The zeroing dialog defaults to G54 when quite often you are working in 
G55 so you need to set it to G55 to correctly set the offset.


Hubert


Michael Grundvig wrote:

Note: I posted this on CNCzone.com last night, but I think I'll get a better 
response here. Sorry for the cross-post.

I feel like a fool but I don't get the trick with tool-changing. I use CamBam to create 
the gcode for a series of operations that require a couple of different endmills. I 
assign them different tool IDs as part of the process. When I run the gcode, EMC2 prompts 
me to change the bits mid-operation at the right time as expected. It gives me the little 
change the tool dialog with a continue button. Pressing the continue button 
causes things to continue as expected.

The problem is that I don't have control over the machine at that point to 
actually change the endmill. I need to raise the z-axis to get the endmill into 
the collect and then I need to touch off the z-axis. Any help or walk through 
of this process would be great as it's currently driving me crazy.

I've tried pausing the operation with the dialog up but I still don't get 
manual control. I've also tried stopping the operation but I can't figure out 
how to get it to resume at the line where it left off properly. I know this is 
probably something super simple and I'm being a fool but it's got me stumped.

I've heard reference of a go to line ability somewhere but I've not seen how 
to use it. It seems horrible that I can't touch off in the middle of a running program. 
This is pretty critical for those of us that don't have a tooling that can be established 
in a tool table. I know this is available in Mach3.

Apparently there is also a tool change position that can be set somewhere - 
I'm assuming that can't be done via the Step Conf wizard so it must be in one of the 
configuration files. Setting it will be of little use if I can't conveniently resume the 
same file again.

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

-Mike
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#!/usr/bin/python
import sys, os
import gettext
BASE = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), ..))
gettext.install(axis, localedir=os.path.join(BASE, share, locale), 
unicode=True)

import emc, hal
import rs274.options
iniFile = emc.ini(os.environ['INI_FILE_NAME'])
emc.nmlfile = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(os.environ['INI_FILE_NAME']), 
iniFile.find(EMC, NML_FILE))

emcStat = emc.stat();
emcCmd = emc.command()

def do_change(n):
emcStat.poll()
curLine = emcStat.current_line
if n:
message = _(Insert tool %d and click continue when ready) % n
else:
message = _(Remove the tool and click continue when ready)
app.wm_withdraw()
app.update()
if curLine =0:
emcCmd.abort()
h.changed = True
app.tk.call(nf_dialog, .tool_change,
_(Tool change), message, info, 0, _(Continue))
if curLine =0:
emcCmd.mode(emc.MODE_AUTO)
emcCmd.auto(emc.AUTO_RUN, curLine + 1)
else:
h.changed = True
app.update()

h = hal.component(hal_manualtoolchange)
h.newpin(number, hal.HAL_S32, hal.HAL_IN)
h.newpin(change, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN)
h.newpin(changed, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
h.ready()

import Tkinter, nf, rs274.options

app = Tkinter.Tk(className=AxisToolChanger)
app.wm_geometry(-60-60)
app.wm_title(_(AXIS Manual Toolchanger))
rs274.options.install(app)
nf.start(app); nf.makecommand(app, _, _)
app.wm_protocol(WM_DELETE_WINDOW, app.wm_withdraw)
lab = Tkinter.Message(app, aspect=500, text = _(\
This window is part of the AXIS manual toolchanger.  It is safe to close \
or iconify this window, or it will close automatically after a few seconds.))
lab.pack()

def withdraw():
app.wm_withdraw()
app.bind(Expose, lambda event: app.wm_withdraw())

app.after(10 * 1000

Re: [Emc-users] New CAD/CAM system to the market - SharpCam

[Hubert Bahr]

Why even worry about windoz when Synergy is Native Linux Cad/Cam?
Hubert

Ian W. Wright wrote:
 Gene,
 I believe you can also run CamBam on linux using Virtualbox 
 but then you do need to install a version of windoze and run 
 it headless. I must admit to having my machine dual booting 
 into both OS's just so that I can run a couple of progs on 
 windoze which won't behave on linux. I just bought a new 
 laptop which came with Win7 pre-installed and I had a hell 
 of a job to persuade it to let me install Ubuntu - then I 
 found that the two main windoze progs I use won't run on 
 win7 dohhh So, I guess its time to up the size 
 of the linux partitions and install virtualbox and winXP
 Ian
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Re: [Emc-users] New CAD/CAM system to the market - SharpCam

[Hubert Bahr]

The 30 day trial is full function everything for 30 days.  It reverts to 
cad only after 30 days.  When you purchase the product you enter a new 
access code and it you then have that product  and it doesn't  cancel 
out.  Actually if you use it incessantly during the trail period it  can 
time out early.  However, they will supply a code that lets you 
continue.  I had left mine running  without realizing it and it timed 
out but they graciously let me continue the trial for a full 30 days.

Hubert

John Thornton wrote:
 On 11 Nov 2009 at 13:33, Hubert Bahr wrote:

   
 John have you ever looked at Synergy by Weber Systems.  This is what
 I 
 use and it definately calculates feed and speed for your tools.  You
 do 
 have to tune it for your machine, rigidity, spindle speeds etc. but
 is 
 designed to give you handbook values of speed and feed.  You have
 access 
 to the tool definitions etc. so you have complete control of the 
 generated G-code.  Link http://www.webersys.com/  cad only free 
 2-1/2 
 axis  (basic milling or lathe) very reasonable with upgrades
 available 
 

 Looked like only a 30 day trial was available... I didn't see a free on.

 John

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Re: [Emc-users] New CAD/CAM system to the market - SharpCam

[Hubert Bahr]

John Thornton wrote:
 Is there any facility in your software to calcualte feed and speeds for 
 tools? I find this feature 
 very helpful. 

 I have four different commercial cam softwares and one is not very good and 
 one is much 
 more expensive but somewhat limiting in areas where I feel I should have 
 complete control. 
 The other two fall in the middle. Things like entry point of the cut I feel 
 should be in 
 complete control of the programmer. 
   
... Snip
John have you ever looked at Synergy by Weber Systems.  This is what I 
use and it definately calculates feed and speed for your tools.  You do 
have to tune it for your machine, rigidity, spindle speeds etc. but is 
designed to give you handbook values of speed and feed.  You have access 
to the tool definitions etc. so you have complete control of the 
generated G-code.  Link http://www.webersys.com/  cad only free  2-1/2 
axis  (basic milling or lathe) very reasonable with upgrades available 
to full multi-axis solid capabilities.  I chose the latter as I want to 
play with 4 and 5 axis solids.  I have found them extremely 
knowledgeable about what is needed.

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] 2.3.3

[Hubert Bahr]

Gene
From the drift in this thread it sounds like you have an X2 using 
stock screws.  In my case I abandoned the stock screws and went with 
lower cost rolled ball screws.  I decided the X2 wasn't rigid enough to 
justify precision screws.  Of course at 5 tpi I get plenty of 
longitudinal motion without super high rotating speeds.  I used .625 
inch screws.  I did have to remove some metal for clearance on the 
table, saddle and base.  I chose to move on to an X3 as it would provide 
more rigidity and X, Y and Z motion.  There, I am still using the stock 
screws, just until I get some other things under control, like emc2 
control of spindle speed and change to belt drive for greater speed 
range.  I already have the screw stock and nuts on hand, It is just 
things are working well enough that the other changes take higher 
priority.  I did find the X3 much easier to convert although the Z axis 
takes a much larger motor.   I guess I am confused at what kind of speed 
you would have on the Y axis with less than 4 of travel that would 
cause bearing noise.

Hubert  

Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Monday 26 October 2009, Andy Pugh wrote:
   
 2009/10/25 Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@gmail.com:
 
  the Y
 screw in particular is howling up a storm.
   
 Is it perfectly straight? I am wondering if it slender enough to be
 whipping?

 
 1/2 inch, and I've had it out, looks straight. Can't see any wobble when it 
 turns if I shine a light in there either.  If there was room, I might put 
 bigger, fasted screws in it but after a while I may as well go get an X3  
 restart this 'project'. :)

   


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Re: [Emc-users] 2.3.3

[Hubert Bahr]

Gene
I used Roton 
http://www.roton.com/ballscrews-ballnuts-nav.aspx?line=Recirculating  
for both my X2 and X3 unfortunately I only found the 5/8 screws 
reasonable.   Yes the ball nuts are a major cost as I use 2 for each 
axis.  Nuts less than $25 each.  I don't know how they would fit in an X1.

Hubert

Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Monday 26 October 2009, Andy Pugh wrote:
   
 2009/10/27 Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@gmail.com:
 
 So where does one get ball screws cheap enough to use on an X1 upgrade?
   
 Depends how cheap is cheap enough. eBay is one source, I got my 8mm
 Y-axis from there. I got the others from here:
 http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/r1605-ballscrew-p-120.htmlcPath=39osCsi
 d=a8fb38ca49d7a4f1ccaf2d30ceb1e09a
 

 Error 404, not found

   
 And I have found few places as cheap.
 

 I went to the home page and found them.  The screws are at a good price, but 
 the nuts are beyond my reach.  And shipping?  I'm in the U.S.

   


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Hubert Bahr]

I am actually working on two machines in parallel.  An X2 and an X3.  
The X2 already has LMS addon pulley set for spindle power.  For it I am 
thinking of just Drilling single hole on one side of the larger pulley 
and sensing that as a index pulse and starting along the lines suggested 
here 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Closed_Loop_Spindle_Speed_Control  
Tapping may not be desired on this machine.

For the X3 I am planning to build a belt drive mod for the machine that 
will give me three speed ranges, I am looking at cutting interrupter 
notches into one edge of the spindle pulley or at least attaching a disk 
containing the notches.  The quadrature encoder/sensors I am familiar 
with were designed to be attached to a servo shaft, not a tool holding 
spindle.  I am guessing if I provide slots of uniform presence and 
absence of material around the periphery of a disk this will give my the 
50% duty cycle.  Then if I set two detectors in a relationship where one 
is offset from the other half a slot away this provides a method of 
detecting 4 transitions per slot instead of just two.  And then the 
relationship of the highs and lows determines direction.  A third 
detector senses a single slot/hole elsewhere that rotates in a constant 
relationship with the other slots.  I think I am approaching the limits 
of the number of pins available from a parallel port for a 4 Axis mill.  
The number of slots to use is a trade off between desired/necessary 
resolution.   What resolution is required for tapping?  Isn't the 
starting edge of an index pulse sufficient, or do they need to track 
loading on the spindle?

Hubert

Gene Heskett wrote:
 snip
 If threading is to be done, then emc must know the position of the spindle 
 pretty accurately.  The usual output format of a quadrature encoder, where 
 the A and B signals are close to 50% duty cycle, and the switching edges of 
 one phase are taking place pretty close to the centers of the stable state of 
 the other, will give emc a pretty good idea where the spindle is.  With the 
 addition of an index pulse once per rev to tell emc when the spindle is at 
 zero degrees, then it can do rigid threading.  To drive the index pulse so it 
 is sensitive to only one edge, one of the things discussed in that thread, 
 one can develop a direction signal from the quadrature signals that would 
 control the phase of the edge detector so the same physical edge of the 
 signal is used as the index regardless of the direction its turning.  Either 
 edge of the hole could be used.

 As for the 6000 rpms, there was some math presented in the previous thread 
 that would show what the limits were, given a perfectly symetrical set of 
 signals that were also phased at 90 degrees.

 I currently have a wheel installed that I cut with the code I posted a day or 
 so back, this is the code from the emc wiki page, and I note after I posted 
 it, that I didn't adjust the comments although that code itself has been 
 adjusted for fewer holes, on smaller circles.  Cutting with a 1/16 bit, the 
 holes are nearly round, and the index hole is actually more like a notch in 
 the edge.  There isn't enough room to get any fancier than that in a 7x12's 
 head.  It is installed between the two nuts that adjust the bearing pre-load, 
 and I'll need smaller opto assemblies to pull it off, the LMC piece, since 
 I'd need 3 of them, would be difficult to fit into the space available, so 
 I'm still in the thinking out loud stage.

   
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Hubert Bahr]

Some further thoughts.  On reviewing the available pin outs using the 
G540 with four axis I have left available 4 input lines and 2 output 
lines.  The VFD PWM output is already dedicated, as are the 4 axis step 
and direction lines.  I want to reserve 3 of the inputs for limit/home 
switches, so this leaves 1 for spindle input, thus I probably should 
dedicate this to an index pulse.  I would then use one output as a 
direction signal and the other as power on.  This gives me the option to 
try stabilizing the spindle speed to that commanded and also use the 
index as a sync pulse.  Since the direction is commanded by the computer 
I already have it  available and use software to determine on which edge 
to sync.  At this time this limitation applies to both machines.  Longer 
term plans are for me to change to the Mesa 7I43 I/O card which I 
believe will let me connect to the G540 and add feadback from all 
planned 5 Axis plus the spindle.  (G540 = 17 pins, 6 Quadrature + index 
channels = 18pins for 35 of the available 48).  I still have to learn 
how much of this can be done with hostmot2 and whether I need to add 
additional functions to the hostmot2 configurations to determine which 
size of FPGA to use.  I think it will also allow me to use separate home 
switches and possibly some control for a tool changer (dreaming).  
Please warn me of pitfalls with this scheme.

Hubert

Hubert Bahr wrote:
 I am actually working on two machines in parallel.  An X2 and an X3.  
 The X2 already has LMS addon pulley set for spindle power.  For it I am 
 thinking of just Drilling single hole on one side of the larger pulley 
 and sensing that as a index pulse and starting along the lines suggested 
 here 
 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Closed_Loop_Spindle_Speed_Control 
  
 Tapping may not be desired on this machine.

 For the X3 I am planning to build a belt drive mod for the machine that 
 will give me three speed ranges, I am looking at cutting interrupter 
 notches into one edge of the spindle pulley or at least attaching a disk 
 containing the notches.  The quadrature encoder/sensors I am familiar 
 with were designed to be attached to a servo shaft, not a tool holding 
 spindle.  I am guessing if I provide slots of uniform presence and 
 absence of material around the periphery of a disk this will give my the 
 50% duty cycle.  Then if I set two detectors in a relationship where one 
 is offset from the other half a slot away this provides a method of 
 detecting 4 transitions per slot instead of just two.  And then the 
 relationship of the highs and lows determines direction.  A third 
 detector senses a single slot/hole elsewhere that rotates in a constant 
 relationship with the other slots.  I think I am approaching the limits 
 of the number of pins available from a parallel port for a 4 Axis mill.  
 The number of slots to use is a trade off between desired/necessary 
 resolution.   What resolution is required for tapping?  Isn't the 
 starting edge of an index pulse sufficient, or do they need to track 
 loading on the spindle?

 Hubert

 Gene Heskett wrote:
   
 snip
 If threading is to be done, then emc must know the position of the spindle 
 pretty accurately.  The usual output format of a quadrature encoder, where 
 the A and B signals are close to 50% duty cycle, and the switching edges of 
 one phase are taking place pretty close to the centers of the stable state 
 of 
 the other, will give emc a pretty good idea where the spindle is.  With the 
 addition of an index pulse once per rev to tell emc when the spindle is at 
 zero degrees, then it can do rigid threading.  To drive the index pulse so 
 it 
 is sensitive to only one edge, one of the things discussed in that thread, 
 one can develop a direction signal from the quadrature signals that would 
 control the phase of the edge detector so the same physical edge of the 
 signal is used as the index regardless of the direction its turning.  Either 
 edge of the hole could be used.

 As for the 6000 rpms, there was some math presented in the previous thread 
 that would show what the limits were, given a perfectly symetrical set of 
 signals that were also phased at 90 degrees.

 I currently have a wheel installed that I cut with the code I posted a day 
 or 
 so back, this is the code from the emc wiki page, and I note after I posted 
 it, that I didn't adjust the comments although that code itself has been 
 adjusted for fewer holes, on smaller circles.  Cutting with a 1/16 bit, the 
 holes are nearly round, and the index hole is actually more like a notch in 
 the edge.  There isn't enough room to get any fancier than that in a 7x12's 
 head.  It is installed between the two nuts that adjust the bearing 
 pre-load, 
 and I'll need smaller opto assemblies to pull it off, the LMC piece, since 
 I'd need 3 of them, would be difficult to fit into the space available, so 
 I'm still in the thinking out loud stage

Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Hubert Bahr]

I measured the voltages across the potentiometers on both my X2 and X3  
they are both Harbor Freight machines.  The X2 about 15 months old and 
the X3 about 6 months old.  The X2 had 12 volts on P1, varying 
proportional to increasing speed on P2 relative to P3.   The X3 had 7 
volts on P3,  varying proportional to increasing speed on P2 relative to 
P1.  So both look like they can be controlled by the VFD outputs of the 
Gecko G540.  Other output pins can be used to control the direction and 
power through relays.  I am thinking that I might use the power relay to 
also switch control from Manual to computer so I will want multiple 
contacts or multiple relays working in parallel.  This should not be 
high duty cycle so standard coil and contacts should work.  I think I 
will leave the power switch in series with the new power relay so it can 
be shutdown either place and the Manual switch must be engaged before 
the computer can control the machine.  I have never used solid state 
relays, they sound interesting for higher number of switching cycles, 
but that would be expensive to implement the cross switching, is it 
worth it.  I still need to research what I am going to do about estop.  
I need to see how it is currently wired on each machine. 

   Now for the feedback.  What do you recommend to feed back the speed?  
I  would think that multiple pulses per revolution would aid faster 
response.  However, a single pulse per revolution would also serve as a 
sync point for rigid tapping.  Is this similar in character to the 
recent discussion on threading?  Which way is better, or do I need 
both.?  If multiple pulses, do they need to be 50 percent duty cycle?   
I was thinking along the lines of an opto-interrupter reading cutouts on 
a disk attached to the spindle pulley.  I am looking to sync to speeds 
over a range roughly from 50 to 6000 rpm.

Thanks
Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Hubert Bahr]

Gene
When you say micromill are you referring to the X2. I have one of these 
as well. I am running it with EMC2 though the parallel port with a G540 
driver. It accepts a VFD PWM signal and has an op-isolated 0 to 10 volt 
analog output for a VFD. It also has 2 uncommitted output pins. It looks 
like I could take the VFD PWM signals in parallel to feed the PMDX-106 
or I may not need it if the VFD output will work for the mill motor 
controller. So how did you hook up the VSD to the PMDX. From a quick 
review of the PMDX-106 manual you can use the pot to set the speed 
through the PMDX but it uses an analog voltage out to set the VSD speed. 
You certainly seem to have put me on the right track. It looks like I 
need to break out the meter and read the values across the pot. It is 
starting to look like the G540 already almost everything I need except 
for the relays and signal conditioning for a sync signal. Reviewing the 
StepConf portion of the getting started guide makes me believe I have a 
chance for a first order solution in its spindle control section. Down 
stream I may want to achieve a more robust solution with something like 
the Mesa cards.

Jon
Warning noted. It looks like my driver may have already considered that 
and provides an optical isolated output and uses a PWM input.

Thanks
Hubert

Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Friday 09 October 2009, Hubert Bahr wrote:
   
 Just some thinking out loud!!  Is it possible to put a rotation detector
 on a spindle, use it as an input to EMC and then have EMC drive some
 type of digital to analog converter to change the speed until it agrees
 with the  desired setting?  Based on some past discussions on the list,
 I believe the answer to be yes.  If so, what type of rotation detection
 is needed?  What is the best way to convert the EMC output to be a
 control force for the spindle?
  I am talking about a spindle on the X3 Seig Mill.  I am planning to
 convert the current gear drive to a two range belt drive, and since the
 current controller appears to use a pot to adjust the speed and a switch
 to change direction I believe I could use some type of control voltage
 and a relay to replace the pot and switch.  I would appreciate any
 suggestions as I explore deeper.

 Hubert
 

 Hubert, I suspect, but don't know for sure, but PMDX makes a card called the 
 PMDX-106, which with some booster relays, took the VSD card out of my 
 micromill, put it in a box with the PMDX-106 and put it under emc control 
 quite nicely.

 Now, the rest of the problem is probably a hal verse or 2 once the actual 
 speed of the spindle is known to emc.  There are folks here who can probably 
 help with that part.

 As a side comment, the VSD from my micromill has very high gain, and without 
 any feedback, I can hog the cut and blow the fuse without ever detecting a 
 sag in the speed I hear.  That got a bit tiresome and expensive for fuses, so 
 my spindle motor now has a 150% jury rigged ammeter to show me how hard the 
 motor is working.

 That makes me the relay element between keeping the motor working fairly  
 hard, and the feed override slider to adjust it.  It seems to me that could 
 be linked, taking me out of the picture long enough to go make a fresh cup of 
 tea.

 Based on that, you may want to see about using the feedback error to also 
 modify the feed override  slow the cut down to where the motor can handle 
 it.  Using a many turn toroid inductor, running one of the motor wires 
 through it, rectify the output and a wee bit of smoothing filter, one could 
 automate the feed override to always run as fast as the motor has the power 
 to cut.  This should approach the ideal cutter life too.

 Yeah, I dream a lot too, but this seems do-able to me.

   


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Hubert Bahr]

Gene
So you have the X-1, I have an X-2 and X-3 also from Habour 
Freight.  I am guessing the principles are the same but I will need to 
check the implementation.  Specifically, I am interested in what you 
connected to pins 1, 2 and 3 of PMDX-106's J2, the spindle signal 
connector.  Specifically it states that pin 3 should not exceed 15 volts 
or you use either a +5 or +10 volt PMDX supplied reference.  It looks 
like the G540 has similar capabilities but it is limited to 12 volts 
instead of 15.  I am surprised you say that the voltage across the pot 
is ac, how could it be used a speed reference.  I guess if you hooked it 
up as figure 7 it wouldn't matter.  I could see it as being AC 
referenced to ground but not across the pot.  But if necessary I can 
hook up my Tectronix purchased new in 1973 and use both channels in 
differential mode.  I have also used them on a rubber mat with the 3rd 
power wire isolated and scope grounded to the target machine.  I have 
also been known to blow the internal ground connection of the scope when 
I had both the 3rd wire connected and then grounded the scope to the 
other device.  Experience has a way of providing very graphic examples 
of what not to do. 

What I need to do is measure the maximum voltage that would exist 
between pins 1 and 3 of the PMDX-106 or in my case  VFD ground and VFD 
+10 lines of the G540.  It has two outputs ready to drive relay coils 
sinking up to 1 amp from not over a 50 volt source.  This should be 
sufficient to switch direction and power.  The only need I anticipate 
for reversing spindle direction is for rigid tapping, I guess I need to 
study how that works in EMC2.

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Hubert Bahr]

Peter
  The SX3 or Super X3 sold by Grizzley (G0619) does use the digital 
control.  The X3 sold by Harbor Freight and also Grizzley (G0463)  use a 
speed potentiometer.  My first attempt will be to use the VFD outputs of 
the Gecko G540 which provides an opto isolated pwm to analog reference.  
In its case it is limited to 12 volts so my first job is to determine 
the safest place to measure the voltage across the pot and then measure 
it.  I was a radar technician in the mid 60's and then went back to get 
my BSE.  So I am very leery of floating references.  As you say these 
voltages may be anywhere from 7 to 15 volts.  I can probably use the 
G540 pins as long as they are between 5 to 12 volts.  I will post my 
findings.  Physical inspection of the control boards in the two machines 
reveals different animals in types and quantity of components.  
Hopefully I will not have to reverse engineer them to get them to work. 

Hubert

Peter Homann wrote:
 Hi Hubert,

 You need to be careful connecting to the pot inputs of a lot of these type of 
 speed controllers. The usually put a DC voltage of anywhere between 7V to 15V 
 across the potentiometer. The kicker is that this voltage is generated via a 
 zener shunt regulator and the control voltage is actually 7V-15V below the 
 mains voltage.

 You need to ensure that any pc control connection to this is isolated.  I 
 have 
 a number of products including the DC-03 that take a pwm signal from the PC 
 and convert this into an isolated dc control voltage that is suitable for 
 controlling many types of DC motor controllers and VFDs.

 http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_infocPath=1products_id=21


 As to the X3, I thought it used a brushless motor and the speed controller 
 was 
 digital with buttons for speed up/down and not suitable for accepting an 
 analog control input that replaces a manual speed potentiometer.

 Cheers,

 Peter


 Hubert Bahr wrote:
   
 Just some thinking out loud!!  Is it possible to put a rotation detector 
 on a spindle, use it as an input to EMC and then have EMC drive some 
 type of digital to analog converter to change the speed until it agrees 
 with the  desired setting?  Based on some past discussions on the list, 
 I believe the answer to be yes.  If so, what type of rotation detection 
 is needed?  What is the best way to convert the EMC output to be a 
 control force for the spindle?
   I am talking about a spindle on the X3 Seig Mill.  I am planning to 
 convert the current gear drive to a two range belt drive, and since the 
 current controller appears to use a pot to adjust the speed and a switch 
 to change direction I believe I could use some type of control voltage 
 and a relay to replace the pot and switch.  I would appreciate any 
 suggestions as I explore deeper.

 Hubert

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[Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Hubert Bahr]

Just some thinking out loud!!  Is it possible to put a rotation detector 
on a spindle, use it as an input to EMC and then have EMC drive some 
type of digital to analog converter to change the speed until it agrees 
with the  desired setting?  Based on some past discussions on the list, 
I believe the answer to be yes.  If so, what type of rotation detection 
is needed?  What is the best way to convert the EMC output to be a 
control force for the spindle?
  I am talking about a spindle on the X3 Seig Mill.  I am planning to 
convert the current gear drive to a two range belt drive, and since the 
current controller appears to use a pot to adjust the speed and a switch 
to change direction I believe I could use some type of control voltage 
and a relay to replace the pot and switch.  I would appreciate any 
suggestions as I explore deeper.

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Question about using a rotary table

[Hubert Bahr]

Stuart
Think about it.  The linear will always be predictable.  It moves 
from the current position to new position.  In linear absolute mode -180 
is not the same as 180.  If I were at between -180 and 180 for a move to 
180 it would move CW, a move to  -180 it would move CCW .  If the 
current position was above 180 it would move CCW for both.  less than 
-180, CW for both.  In incremental mode it would move the same as if the 
current position was between -180 and 180.  It is true an axis that 
rotates 360 degrees will appear to the operator as being in the same 
position but mathematically they are not.  Can't you get your 
(0-359.999) performance by using the N MOD 360 operation which returns 
the remainder of the number divided by 360.  Only if I am thinking about 
a position on a dial do these appear the same to me.  I am certainly not 
sure as how I would implement the behavior you describe.  To me it is up 
to the G-Code programmer or Post Processor to know that this is a 
wrapped axis and to make the program efficient you can set the current 
location to N MOD 360 with out a change in position.  As a programmer or 
the post processor I would like to know is how to change the current 
linear position N to N MOD 360 without causing a physical move of the 
machine,  as my attempts with G10 L2 A 0 did not appear to have the 
desired result.

Hubert

Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Gentlemen,
   I can think of one scenario that the rotary (0-359.999) configuration will
 handle better than the linear (0 thru unlimited) configuration.

 On  a 180 degree move you would give a command of B180 or B-180 (the same
 position). If the sign does not tell the machine which way to turn then how
 does the machine know which way to move the axis? Just as important, how
 does the operator know which way the machine is going to move? Also, how
 does the post handle the move? You would need an intermediate move to allow
 the machine and operator to determine the direction of motion. The post can
 be instructed by another commanded position or a direction vector for the
 tool motion.

   There are trade offs in all configurations. In my world, small it may be,
 the rotary configuration is clearer and more intuitive for the post, the
 operator and the machine.

   I am glad Henry Ford does not run the industry now. You could have any
 color Model T you wanted along is it was black. :)

   


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Re: [Emc-users] Question about using a rotary table

[Hubert Bahr]

I am a relative newbie to EMC2.  I have a rotary table, and have also 
wondered about a method to reset or home the rotary axis without backing 
up.  By Always moving the table in the same direction I avoid backlash.  
Always keeping the position within 0 and 359.999 might work if it is 
treated as a modulo 360 operation.  I certainly would like to be able to 
make greater than 360 degree moves as it is an easy way to specify a 
spiral with more than one revolution.  If no way to reset the count, 
what is the limit on degrees you can accumulate before truncation errors 
etc start to creep in?I recently performed an operation similar to 
what Alan envisioned by introducing an artificial manual tool change 
that returned control to the operator where the operator hit home and 
then continued the program.  If the operator failed to hit home the 
table unwound and started over.

Thinking about it further I would rather live with it this way than 
loose the ability to specify multiple rotations by rotating greater than 
360 degrees.  I like being able  to mathematically describe a helix and 
cut it as one long extended cut.

Hubert

Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Gentlemen,
I have previously requested the rotary axis usage as follows:

 1: the rotary position stays within 0 and 359.999
 you never see 360 (or more) in the program nor on the position screen
 2: the sign (+ and -) tell the machine which direction to move
 the sign has nothing to do with the commanded position of the rotary
 table
 3: the rotary table is positioned to the 0 thru 359.999 degrees regardless
 of the sign
 ie. the position +90 and -90 are the same position
  the difference is the direction of the table to arrive at the
 position
 an MDI command of 720 is a move in the positive direction to the 0
 position
 an MDI command of -360 is a move in the negative direction to the 0
 position
 on my machine with the Fanuc 15mb control the rotary scale errors out
 when the internal register reaches .999 degrees regardless of G92 zero
 resets. on the EMC2 control this would not be a limit and the effect would
 be essentially unlimited rotations without the need to wind or unwind

 #
 further explanation to differentiate between linear and rotary

 linear positioning is as follows

 1: the position of the rotary table is allowed to move + and - just as the
 linear axes with direction (+ and -) and magnitude determining final
 position and the quantity of table rotations
 2: the position +90 and -270 are the same position

 #
 my opinion as follows:
most people (initially myself included) think the linear positioning is
 the only valid option
in practice the rotary is the easiest to use as the direction of rotation
 is immediately recognizable by the sign of the command
it is easy to adjust to the positioning paradigm and seems intuitive
 rather quickly


 
 I seem to remember some discussion about this but I have not pursued it as
 the machine I want to use it on is a few of projects away

 
 I don't know if this is what Alan was requesting
 If not, I am sorry for hijacking his thread to inject my request
 thanks
 Stuart

 On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Frank Tkalcevic 
 fr...@franksworkshop.com.au wrote:

   
 I know you can get the current position, then do some math to move to a
 multiple of 3600...

 # save the current absolute position in 5161-5166
 G28.1
 # move to a multiple of 3600.  #5164 should have the current A position
 G0 A[ROUND[[#5164]/3600]*3600]
 # set A to 0
 G?


 I just don't know how you 0 the coordinate system from Gcode.  In the Axis
 source code, it uses G10 L2 to touch off, but I don't think that is what is
 wanted.

 
 -Original Message-
 From: Alan Battersby [mailto:alan.batter...@ntlworld.com]
 Sent: Thursday, 1 October 2009 5:54 AM
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] Question about using a rotary table

 Hi everyone,

 If I make a full turn from 0 to 360 degrees say on the C
 axis, I want then to reset the coordinate system back to
 angle zero degrees in order to save an unwinding movement
 that occurs if I make a rapid move back to zero.  For a
 couple of rotations I could use g54 etc but there is
 obviously a limit to this method. Perhaps I could use g92 but
 can it be cumulatively used over and over again?

 I envisage cutting paths which require several depth and
 width passes and this is multiplicative so 3 width passes and
 4 depth passes gives 12 rotations to be unwound when the path
 is complete in order to go onto the next path and that is
 with the pattern cut in a single rotation. I can generate
 patterns that take up to 20 rotations to complete.

 So I am wondering which is the best way of resetting back to
 the original zero position and can I avoid multiple
 unwindings? On should I think in terms of many smaller
 programs run sequentially?

 My apologies

[Emc-users] EMC2 SMP

[Hubert Bahr]

I just noticed on another thread a reference SMP with EMC2.   This has 
me wondering  if it is feasible to have two machines controlled by one 
computer.  Only one operator is planned.  I have been thinking about 
using two computers with a KVM switch but it would be even more 
convenient to use a single computer with two Axis displays on a single 
screen.  I have the two (mini and small mills) machines and currently 
just switch the cables from one machine to the other and restart EMC2.  
I have plans to purchase additional drivers etc. after I am totally 
finished experimenting with the second machine.  These are stepper 
machines that I plan to add encoders for robustness.  I also will 
probably add Mesa parallel port cards.  I have an Older Quad Core 
processor siting on the shelf that could plug into the current 
motherboard I am using for EMC2.  While familiar with realtime I am not 
familiar with RTAI so I don't know what limitations might be lurking in 
the shadows.

Thanks
Hubert

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[Emc-users] G code Home vs Manual Home

[Hubert Bahr]

I have a 4 axis mill with no home switches.  How can I zero the A axis 
from a program without a program move.
I have tried using g10 L2 P1 A0 or g10 L2 P2 A0 and all I get is an 
unexpected X axis move.  A axis remains unchanged.  In manual mode I can 
simply use the AXIS home button and get the desired result.  The goal is 
to allow continued turning of the A axis without hitting the max value 
limits.  I prefer continued rotation to avoid backlash issues.

How does AXIS do it?

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7I43 use with EMC2

[Hubert Bahr]

Does the -P card come with the usb connector for power? or do you have 
the dual port card?.  My plans are to have  4-Axis machines using 
steppers and Quadrature encoders.  In addition I would like to control 
the spindle speed and synchronize it for threading.  I intend to have 
the normal complement of limit/homing switches with E-stop.  The Gecko 
540 includes a BOB with pins for the switches etc so I am assuming 24 
ports to connect to the 540 leaving the other 24 for connecting the 
encoders (12 ports A,B index) and handle the spindle speed (maybe 
another encoder) and synchronization.  To me the 7i43 looks to have 
enough I/O for this and maybe a few additional odds and ends.  My 
interpretation is that all I/O not specifically part of the other 
modules are passed back to the computer as register values as part of 
the HostMot2 driver.  So unless I need faster response I should not need 
to reprogram the FPGA but just write/adapt code on the host computer.  
Do you know if there are any free blocks left in the fpga?  I am rusty 
but I have used the spartan 3 and virtex 2 series of Xilinx chips in the 
past.  Under Linux I remember some problems in talking to the 
development board in the past so I was wondering how the 7i43 worked 
with the Xilinx software.  This board looked promising for some other 
applications as well. I could send these type of questions to Mesa and 
at this time they are not a primary concern just a potential added benefit.

Hubert

Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
 div class=moz-text-flowed style=font-family: -moz-fixedHubert 
 Bahr wrote:
 I have a one man hobby shop with multiple machines, I really 
 don't anticipate having them running simultaneously, but I plan on 
 leaving them hooked up thus multiple 7I43.  Since HostMot2 doesn't 
 use the USB is there any advantage of getting models with the USB 
 port other than as possibly a power source?  Would there be any 
 advantage to getting the larger Spartan device?  Does the Xilinx ISE 
 recognize this card for programing or do we need to use Mesa supplied 
 software for that purpose?

 On my test system, i have a USB cable from the PC to the 7i43 just for 
 power, exactly as you say.  The 7i43 does have a dedicated power 
 input, so you dont have to use USB for power if you dont want to, just 
 be careful because the 7i43 power plug looks like a small ATX-style 
 power connector like you might find on a standard ATX power supply, 
 but the pin-out is different.

 There is *currently* no advantage to getting the bigger 400 Kgate 7i43 
 vs the smaller 200 Kgate one.  All currently available firmwares fit 
 in the smaller FPGA, the limiting factor is I/O pins, not gates.  In 
 the future, there *may* be new firmwares that fit in the 400 but not 
 the 200...

 For programming the device...  If you're talking about sending a 
 compiled firmware image to the 7i43, the hostmot2 driver does that 
 when you start emc2.  If you're talking about compiling custom VHDL 
 code into a firmware image, the Xilinx software does that.




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[Emc-users] Mesa 7I43 use with EMC2

[Hubert Bahr]

I am currently using EMC2 using a parallel port connected to a Gecko 540 
driver to control a 4 Axis Mini mill (Seig x2 with 4 rotating table).  
I am also in the process to fitting an X3 with steppers and ball screws, 
rotating table etc to make a larger 4 axis desktop machine.  While I am 
learning, with the current configuration I am thinking things could also 
be improved.  I am contemplating  adding feedback loops and spindle 
speed control to increase robustness of the setup.  It looks like the 
Pico Universal Stepper controller would do this, but I am thinking that 
it should also be possible with the Mesa 7I43. 

These are some questions I have after my initial research.
Does HostMot2 work over the usb port?  Can I use both StepDir and 
encoder modules at the same time?  Can we use more than one 7I43 with 
one computer?  How does the performance of the system compare between 
HostMot2 and just software generated step and direction?

Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Using MDI or Jog during a program?

[Hubert Bahr]

Tim
This seems somewhat related to a recent request of mine. I had asked 
about being able to use MDI or manual modes during a tool change. Leslie 
provided me with a new hal_manualtoolchange which allowed me move etc. 
then hit continue and return to the program. In this case I would zero 
my z-axis or if necessary change other offsets as well. Then hit 
continue. I believe he did this in python. I can provide you a copy of 
it as an example of possibly Leslie will chime in.

Hubert

Tim Hedlund wrote:
 I sure could use some help jogging during a program.  My project
 involves laser beam welding, I would like to:

 1.  Rapid to start of weld
 2.  Use joystick  to align start of weld (camera attached to welding head)
 3.  Record start position to variable
 4.  Rapid to end of weld
 5.  Use joystick  to align end of weld
 6.  Then weld back to the starting point(variable)

 Everything is working just fine on my system but I can’t jog during a
 program to my target location, any ideas?

 Thanks in advance for your help!
 Tim H


   


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Re: [Emc-users] Using MDI during a Program?

[Hubert Bahr]

Thanks Les,  This seems to do the job.  The only thing I noticed and 
this was also true with the distribution version is that the continue 
message does not always appear on the first tool.  It does for all later 
tools though, and it is easy enough to overcome this by simply making 
the moves/touch offs prior to starting the program.

Here is the procedure I am using.  At first startup of emc2 I check to 
see that I have G53/G54 set at my desired machine home.   I then switch 
to G55 and move to my work piece reference point and set the desired 
offsets for x and y.  I then load the first tool using midi to move the 
tip the desired zero point then touch off the z-axis.  I have the tool 
table lengths all set to zero as I use collets or chucks to hold the 
tool and loading them is not repeatable.  I then raise the tool and 
start/continue the program.  Just prior to asking for the tool change my 
program raises the tool with G53Z0 to the top of the column and then 
moves to current x0y0 which is normally my reference point.  In most 
cases this allows me to simply change the tool, lower it to the top of 
the work,  touch off z, then raise the tool to a safe height then 
continue.  However, I have the option of using MDI or manual to moving 
the work out of the way, or to a location that still has the top, or 
even re-zero if necessary before hitting continue.  This is with 
Leslie's manual tool change code.  Meanwhile emc is keeping track of the 
current location and makes the next move after hitting continue.

To me this definately makes Axis a more usable interface.  I started 
with a manual mill and am slowly advancing to a CNC system.

Thanks
Hubert

Leslie Newell wrote:
 Hi Hubert,

 Try this version. It still needs some work but at least it should run 
 for you. I have found another bug that you may need to be aware of. If 
 emc is currently executing an MDI move(s), clicking the continue 
 button will abort the move and start the program immediately. If you 
 wait for motion to stop before continuing you won't have a problem.

 Les


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[Emc-users] Use Setup and Recommendations of Limit/Home switches

[Hubert Bahr]

I see on this list that Limit switches are highly recommended.  Not only 
to identify mechanical limits of the system but also for finding the 
mechanical 0, 0, 0 coordinates.  I also see the implication that this 
can also be used to re-zero the machine if it becomes lost.  To me this 
implies that when switched the physical switch point must be highly 
repeatable.  So, how do you mount them and what type of device has the 
necessary stability to serve this function.

Thanks
Hubert

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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[Hubert Bahr]

Gene
I am not quite sure of the math but you also might consider a 240V 
in VFD drive to convert it to 3 phase.   This is recommended many times 
as almost a break even choice when replacing large single phase motors 
for mills and lathes as a 3 phase motor is enough cheaper that it plus 
the cost of the VFD drive is about the same as the single phase motor, 
and is has the added advantage of giving you variable speed.

Hubert

Gene Heskett wrote:
 Greetings all;

 I find I am in need of a bandsaw with at least 12.5 of resaw capability, and 
 I'm reluctant to buy a Rikon 10-325 to get it as that will be circa a 
 kilobuck 
 by the time I fit it with a WoodSlicer blade, a mitre gauge, a pack of table 
 inserts  pay the freight.

 The only real candidate I can find on the net is a 24 SCIM, but its motor is 
 a 2.4kw 3 phase, and 3 phase is not available on my street.

 Does anyone know of such a beast?, used is ok unless its used up.

   


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Re: [Emc-users] Using MDI during a Program?

[Hubert Bahr]

Leslie
I believe in an earlier post that you had created some changes that 
would allow the use of MDI but you couldn't completely test right now.  
I would like to try them as I have several parts that I am ready to 
machine that have multiple tool changes.  For some reason my postings 
have not been making to the list so I am sending it to you as well.

Thanks
Hubert

Leslie Newell wrote:
 div class=moz-text-flowed style=font-family: -moz-fixedSome 
 controls have a 'teach mode' that records your jogs. You can then 
 replay the jogs either forwards or backwards. This is pretty much the 
 same as you describe. Things get a bit more complicated when you are 
 using MPG jogging, especially if you have multiple MPGs. In that case 
 all you can do is record the machine position at regular intervals 
 then join the dots to replay the moves. However with modern computers, 
 storage space is not a problem so you can store a virtually unlimited 
 number of moves.

 Les

 K.J. Kirwan wrote:
 I think they did it the stupid way, where they count each apply and 
 release of a jog (continuous) switch as one jog.  This has the 
 advantage of letting them know right away when you're done with a 
 jog.  But it also leads to the problem you mentioned, where the genie 
 might say, Sorry, that was your third jog.  (Me: Doh!)

 If they did it the smart way, that would allow jog #1 plus (oops, 
 too far, back up a little) jog #1 minus (oops, overshot the other way 
 now)... But it might require a dummy jog #4 to say that you were done 
 with jog #3, and I don't remember anything like that.  Not completely 
 sure though. 
 If I was voting on how EMC2 should do this, I'd vote for smart, 
 just remember a minimized version of everything, whether done by 
 continuous jog switches, incremental jog switches, or MPG.  With some 
 kind of done button if needed.  It could make for an amusing path 
 retrace, though. 
 Thanks,
 Kim



 /div


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[Emc-users] Using MDI during a Program?

[Hubert Bahr]

Is there anyway to use MDI during a program run.  I would like to be 
able to move the work and adjust the zero of the Z-axis during a tool 
change.  Right now I do this by turning off the drivers and manually 
moving the mill.  This requires keeping manual handles available.  I 
would prefer to do this using MDI.  The only option I see is breaking 
the program in multiple pieces for each tool change.  I guess I am using 
2.2.  At this time I do not have limit switches implemented.

Hubert

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