subject:"Re\: \[Emc\-users\] $no subject$"

Yes I control yesterday the actual gituh linuxcnc ... position_logger.cc is
disappear.

Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 21:21 N 
ha scritto:

> > ...
> > Refer to our testsuite for a simple standalone "UI" program which is
> > tested to correctly link in every build of LinuxCNC.
> >
> >
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/tests/build/ui/nml-position-logger.cc
> >
> > For my side is a nice pieces of code that help me to understand the way
> to
> > exchange nml signal from my c++ gui app to linuxcnc whitout using python.
> >
> > regards
> > bkt
>
> That's different then I understand.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) Position logger, sampler?

2019-12-14 Thread John Dammeyer

What is your C++ gui app?

> -Original Message-
> From: theman whosoldtheworld [mailto:bleachk...@gmail.com]
> Sent: December-14-19 11:01 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) Position logger, sampler?
> 
> These is the reply done to me by jeff epler 1 year ago more or less 
> 
> 
> Refer to our testsuite for a simple standalone "UI" program which is
> tested to correctly link in every build of LinuxCNC.
> 
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/tests/build/ui/nml-
> position-logger.cc
> 
> For my side is a nice pieces of code that help me to understand the way to
> exchange nml signal from my c++ gui app to linuxcnc whitout using python.
> 
> regards
> bkt
> 
> Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 12:47 N 
> ha scritto:
> 
> > Position logger is inteded for what?
> >
> >
> > > position logger is on test folder  but the problem was absolute path
> > of
> > > linuxcnc.nml file . position_logger.cc when compile and launch need
> > > arguments  linuxcnc.nml file is the preferred one but absolute path
> > is
> > > needed in any case (in my case i work inside linuxcnc-dev folder).
> > >
> > > regards
> > > bkt
> > >
> > > Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 11:33 N  > >
> > > ha scritto:
> > >
> > > > Not sure what position_logger.cc is and do not find the file then
> > > > searching but myself used sampler, it could also log position or
> > whatever
> > > > signal is selected.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > About position_logger.cc and my bad memory  if I use xemc as
> > nmlfile
> > > > > obtain these error:
> > > > >
> > > > > bkt@bkt:~/linuxcnc-dev$ '/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/lib/logger' xemc
> > > > > libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 623: cms_config: can't open 'xemc'. Error = 2
> > -- No
> > > > > such file or directory
> > > > > libnml/nml/nml.cc 370: NML: cms_config returned -1.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> **
> > > > > * Current Directory = /home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev
> > > > > *
> > > > >
> **
> > > > > * BufferName = emcStatus
> > > > > * ProcessName = xemc
> > > > > * Config File = xemc
> > > > > * error_type = 0 (NML_NO_ERROR)
> > > > >
> **
> **
> > > > >
> > > > > obviously a linuxcnc Axis gui is open in my desk 
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) Position logger, sampler?

2019-12-14 Thread N

> ...
> Refer to our testsuite for a simple standalone "UI" program which is
> tested to correctly link in every build of LinuxCNC.
> 
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/tests/build/ui/nml-position-logger.cc
> 
> For my side is a nice pieces of code that help me to understand the way to
> exchange nml signal from my c++ gui app to linuxcnc whitout using python.
> 
> regards
> bkt

That's different then I understand.


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) Position logger, sampler?

These is the reply done to me by jeff epler 1 year ago more or less 


Refer to our testsuite for a simple standalone "UI" program which is
tested to correctly link in every build of LinuxCNC.

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/tests/build/ui/nml-position-logger.cc

For my side is a nice pieces of code that help me to understand the way to
exchange nml signal from my c++ gui app to linuxcnc whitout using python.

regards
bkt

Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 12:47 N 
ha scritto:

> Position logger is inteded for what?
>
>
> > position logger is on test folder  but the problem was absolute path
> of
> > linuxcnc.nml file . position_logger.cc when compile and launch need
> > arguments  linuxcnc.nml file is the preferred one but absolute path
> is
> > needed in any case (in my case i work inside linuxcnc-dev folder).
> >
> > regards
> > bkt
> >
> > Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 11:33 N  >
> > ha scritto:
> >
> > > Not sure what position_logger.cc is and do not find the file then
> > > searching but myself used sampler, it could also log position or
> whatever
> > > signal is selected.
> > >
> > >
> > > > About position_logger.cc and my bad memory  if I use xemc as
> nmlfile
> > > > obtain these error:
> > > >
> > > > bkt@bkt:~/linuxcnc-dev$ '/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/lib/logger' xemc
> > > > libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 623: cms_config: can't open 'xemc'. Error = 2
> -- No
> > > > such file or directory
> > > > libnml/nml/nml.cc 370: NML: cms_config returned -1.
> > > >
> > > > **
> > > > * Current Directory = /home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev
> > > > *
> > > > **
> > > > * BufferName = emcStatus
> > > > * ProcessName = xemc
> > > > * Config File = xemc
> > > > * error_type = 0 (NML_NO_ERROR)
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > obviously a linuxcnc Axis gui is open in my desk 
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) Position logger, sampler?

2019-12-14 Thread N

Position logger is inteded for what?


> position logger is on test folder  but the problem was absolute path of
> linuxcnc.nml file . position_logger.cc when compile and launch need
> arguments  linuxcnc.nml file is the preferred one but absolute path is
> needed in any case (in my case i work inside linuxcnc-dev folder).
> 
> regards
> bkt
> 
> Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 11:33 N 
> ha scritto:
> 
> > Not sure what position_logger.cc is and do not find the file then
> > searching but myself used sampler, it could also log position or whatever
> > signal is selected.
> >
> >
> > > About position_logger.cc and my bad memory  if I use xemc as nmlfile
> > > obtain these error:
> > >
> > > bkt@bkt:~/linuxcnc-dev$ '/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/lib/logger' xemc
> > > libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 623: cms_config: can't open 'xemc'. Error = 2 -- No
> > > such file or directory
> > > libnml/nml/nml.cc 370: NML: cms_config returned -1.
> > >
> > > **
> > > * Current Directory = /home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev
> > > *
> > > **
> > > * BufferName = emcStatus
> > > * ProcessName = xemc
> > > * Config File = xemc
> > > * error_type = 0 (NML_NO_ERROR)
> > > 
> > >
> > > obviously a linuxcnc Axis gui is open in my desk 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) Position logger, sampler?

position logger is on test folder  but the problem was absolute path of
linuxcnc.nml file . position_logger.cc when compile and launch need
arguments  linuxcnc.nml file is the preferred one but absolute path is
needed in any case (in my case i work inside linuxcnc-dev folder).

regards
bkt

Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 11:33 N 
ha scritto:

> Not sure what position_logger.cc is and do not find the file then
> searching but myself used sampler, it could also log position or whatever
> signal is selected.
>
>
> > About position_logger.cc and my bad memory  if I use xemc as nmlfile
> > obtain these error:
> >
> > bkt@bkt:~/linuxcnc-dev$ '/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/lib/logger' xemc
> > libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 623: cms_config: can't open 'xemc'. Error = 2 -- No
> > such file or directory
> > libnml/nml/nml.cc 370: NML: cms_config returned -1.
> >
> > **
> > * Current Directory = /home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev
> > *
> > **
> > * BufferName = emcStatus
> > * ProcessName = xemc
> > * Config File = xemc
> > * error_type = 0 (NML_NO_ERROR)
> > 
> >
> > obviously a linuxcnc Axis gui is open in my desk 
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) Position logger, sampler?

2019-12-14 Thread N

Not sure what position_logger.cc is and do not find the file then searching but 
myself used sampler, it could also log position or whatever signal is selected.


> About position_logger.cc and my bad memory  if I use xemc as nmlfile
> obtain these error:
> 
> bkt@bkt:~/linuxcnc-dev$ '/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/lib/logger' xemc
> libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 623: cms_config: can't open 'xemc'. Error = 2 -- No
> such file or directory
> libnml/nml/nml.cc 370: NML: cms_config returned -1.
> 
> **
> * Current Directory = /home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev
> *
> **
> * BufferName = emcStatus
> * ProcessName = xemc
> * Config File = xemc
> * error_type = 0 (NML_NO_ERROR)
> 
> 
> obviously a linuxcnc Axis gui is open in my desk 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

REAL SORRY AT ALL . ABSOLUTE PATH IS THE PROBLEM  THE RIGHT COMMAND
FOR OUTPUT (test1) OF position_logger.cc WAS:

bkt@bkt:~$ '/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/test1'
'/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/configs/common/linuxcnc.nml'

regards
and Happy End Of Year Holiday!!
bkt

Il giorno sab 14 dic 2019 alle ore 09:24 theman whosoldtheworld <
bleachk...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> About position_logger.cc and my bad memory  if I use xemc as nmlfile
> obtain these error:
>
> bkt@bkt:~/linuxcnc-dev$ '/home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev/lib/logger' xemc
> libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 623: cms_config: can't open 'xemc'. Error = 2 -- No
> such file or directory
> libnml/nml/nml.cc 370: NML: cms_config returned -1.
>
> **
> * Current Directory = /home/bkt/linuxcnc-dev
> *
> **
> * BufferName = emcStatus
> * ProcessName = xemc
> * Config File = xemc
> * error_type = 0 (NML_NO_ERROR)
> 
>
> obviously a linuxcnc Axis gui is open in my desk 
>
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-10 Thread andy pugh

On 10 April 2018 at 14:36, John Kasunich  wrote:

>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wyVFvXT2BgT9YSY22
> This one looks very interesting...  some kind of capacitive or inductive 
> encoder?

Reflective optical, and not supremely successful.
The target there was etched aluminium. (Used the CNC and a marker pen
to draw the grid, etched in ferric chloride).
But the sensors I used (
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7160604/ ) needed a finer grid
pitch, so I had some discs laser-cut by a PCB stencil manufacturer:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JfpveU0sy1j9PEJD2
Which worked a bit better, but never 100%.
So I gave up on the project. Partly this was because the motor also
turned out to be a bit weak.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9ngSqju8U3Q04G722
A CNC-controlled boring head.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-10 Thread John Kasunich



On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, at 9:02 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 8 April 2018 at 13:47, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 08 April 2018 02:00:59 Lawrence Glaister wrote:
> 
> >> https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion.html for production. Smooth as silk
> >> and unbeatable prices. (10 boards 3.8x2.5" for $4.41(March Sale) +
> >> shipping).
> >>
> > Post pix when you get them back please.
> 
> I have used Seeed a few times:
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/f4yBUuQ2WKR7cBfF3
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUWqFKAtmTej3UEk1


> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wyVFvXT2BgT9YSY22
This one looks very interesting...  some kind of capacitive or inductive 
encoder?


> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhbLxEtFG6wNBQ3y1
> 
> I have always been happy with what I got, they come back in <2 weeks
> and you get plating, solder resist and silkscreen. I would need to be
> in a real hurry to make my own now.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
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-- 
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  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

On Sunday 08 April 2018 09:02:34 andy pugh wrote:

> On 8 April 2018 at 13:47, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 08 April 2018 02:00:59 Lawrence Glaister wrote:
> >> https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion.html for production. Smooth as
> >> silk and unbeatable prices. (10 boards 3.8x2.5" for $4.41(March
> >> Sale) + shipping).
> >
> > Post pix when you get them back please.
>
> I have used Seeed a few times:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/f4yBUuQ2WKR7cBfF3
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUWqFKAtmTej3UEk1
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wyVFvXT2BgT9YSY22
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhbLxEtFG6wNBQ3y1
>
Looks good Andy.

> I have always been happy with what I got, they come back in <2 weeks
> and you get plating, solder resist and silkscreen. I would need to be
> in a real hurry to make my own now.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread andy pugh

On 8 April 2018 at 13:47, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Sunday 08 April 2018 02:00:59 Lawrence Glaister wrote:

>> https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion.html for production. Smooth as silk
>> and unbeatable prices. (10 boards 3.8x2.5" for $4.41(March Sale) +
>> shipping).
>>
> Post pix when you get them back please.

I have used Seeed a few times:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/f4yBUuQ2WKR7cBfF3
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUWqFKAtmTej3UEk1
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wyVFvXT2BgT9YSY22
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhbLxEtFG6wNBQ3y1

I have always been happy with what I got, they come back in <2 weeks
and you get plating, solder resist and silkscreen. I would need to be
in a real hurry to make my own now.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

On Sunday 08 April 2018 04:23:23 Chris Albertson wrote:

> The kind of PCB I want to make is simple.  Many complex parts can be
> bought on ebay as "breakout boards".   I want to use these breakout
> boards as if they were ICs   In other words I want to replace my
> collection of flying Dupont wires and mini-size solderless breadboards
> with 1970 vintage PCBs Just like the guy in the video.
>
> Thanks for the lead on pcb2gcode.   From another list I found out
> about "flatCAM".   It is open source linux/mac/windows and convert
> berbers and excellent files to g-code.   see http://flatcam.org   I
> have only looked at it for about 20 minutes.   I will look at
> pcb2gcode too.  thanks
>
> I've known about eagle and cicada for a long time.   What happened is
> KiCAD picked up funding from CERN and with a paid staff progress was
> fast.   I've decided to move from Eagle too even if I am a big user of
> Fusion 360.
>
> What tools are used? I mean the cutting tools.  Can I use "normal"
> milling machine spindle RPMs or is a 20,000 RPM router needed?   The
> end mill in the video looks microscopic.
>
I don't have a high speed spindle, 2500 revs is wide open on the 
micro-mill, it works as well but feed rates are obviously slow, about 
2.5 ipm IIRC. So the whole job is slow. 2 copies of a simple DS board is 
about a 10 hour day. Worse than watching paint dry.

> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:00 PM, Lawrence Glaister  
wrote:
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > For the PCB milling, I used to use eagle and the pcbgcode plugin for
> > the longest time. Eagle got kind of funky after autocad bought them
> > and is now mostly a subscription service.
> >
> > I now use kicad for the schematic and pcb design and an open source
> > program called pcb2gcode to convert gerbers to gcode files for
> > linuxcnc. I just completed a board I sent off to
> > https://www.seeedstudio.com/fu sion.html for production. Smooth as
> > silk and unbeatable prices. (10 boards 3.8x2.5" for $4.41(March
> > Sale) + shipping).
> >
> > I then designed and milled a small board for a calibration jig and
> > used the pcb2gcode to convert the bottom copper gerber to linuxcnc
> > gcode files. Again, pretty smooth once one gets the isolation and
> > offset parameters figured out.
> >
> > I think kicad is a much superior package to eagle and has no
> > restrictions on boards size or schematic size. As with learning a
> > new cad system, it took a couple of youtube videos and a couple of
> > days of practice, but it really only took a few days to go from
> > nothing to ordering pcbs. Well worth the investment in time. The
> > current kicad V4 release worked the best for me I tried V5 from
> > git, but it wasnt quite workable yet. The advantage of V5 is that it
> > will be able to import eagle project schematic and PCB files.
> >
> > I have done quite a few PCBs by milling, and there are a few tricks
> > like using wider traces and trying to keep most surface mount parts
> > and traces on the bottom layer and use the top layer for jumpers and
> > through hole parts to avoid 2 sided milling. One sided pcbs are much
> > less critical to mill as they are milled, drilled and cutout without
> > changing the mounting. This avoids a lot of headaches of trying to
> > get top and bottom layers aligned.
> >
> > cheers
> > Lawrence Glaister VE7IT
> > Nanoose Bay BC, Canada
> >
> > On 2018-04-07 10:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >> Is anyone using a CNC mill to make PCBs?  The video linked below
> >> shows someone doing this on a small mill with Mach 3.  The PCB is
> >> certainly not high tech.  The parts are all through hole with 0.1
> >> inch lead pitch and it is one side only.  Right out of the 1970's
> >> but it is exactly what I want to
> >> make.   More complex PCBs can go to oshpark
> >>
> >> Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
> >> convert
> >> Gerber files to g-code files.
> >>
> >> Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill
> >> to route
> >> copper, Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through
> >> and a few micro side drill bits for the through holes.
> >>
> >> BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of
> >> time by using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty
> >> space.  No need to mill all that copper away.
> >>
> >> https://youtu.be/xM8sTEw3OLQ?t=5m41s

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

On Sunday 08 April 2018 02:00:59 Lawrence Glaister wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> For the PCB milling, I used to use eagle and the pcbgcode plugin for
> the longest time. Eagle got kind of funky after autocad bought them
> and is now mostly a subscription service.
>
> I now use kicad for the schematic and pcb design and an open source
> program called pcb2gcode to convert gerbers to gcode files for
> linuxcnc. I just completed a board I sent off to
> https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion.html for production. Smooth as silk
> and unbeatable prices. (10 boards 3.8x2.5" for $4.41(March Sale) +
> shipping).
>
Post pix when you get them back please.

> I then designed and milled a small board for a calibration jig and
> used the pcb2gcode to convert the bottom copper gerber to linuxcnc
> gcode files. Again, pretty smooth once one gets the isolation and
> offset parameters figured out.
>
> I think kicad is a much superior package to eagle and has no
> restrictions on boards size or schematic size. As with learning a new
> cad system, it took a couple of youtube videos and a couple of days of
> practice, but it really only took a few days to go from nothing to
> ordering pcbs. Well worth the investment in time. The current kicad V4
> release worked the best for me I tried V5 from git, but it wasnt
> quite workable yet. The advantage of V5 is that it will be able to
> import eagle project schematic and PCB files.
>
> I have done quite a few PCBs by milling, and there are a few tricks
> like using wider traces and trying to keep most surface mount parts
> and traces on the bottom layer and use the top layer for jumpers and
> through hole parts to avoid 2 sided milling. One sided pcbs are much
> less critical to mill as they are milled, drilled and cutout without
> changing the mounting. This avoids a lot of headaches of trying to get
> top and bottom layers aligned.
>
> cheers
> Lawrence Glaister VE7IT
> Nanoose Bay BC, Canada
>
> On 2018-04-07 10:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Is anyone using a CNC mill to make PCBs?  The video linked below
> > shows someone doing this on a small mill with Mach 3.  The PCB is
> > certainly not high tech.  The parts are all through hole with 0.1
> > inch lead pitch and it is one side only.  Right out of the 1970's
> > but it is exactly what I want to make.   More complex PCBs can go to
> > oshpark
> >
> > Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
> > convert Gerber files to g-code files.
> >
> > Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill
> > to route copper, Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way
> > through and a few micro side drill bits for the through holes.
> >
> > BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of
> > time by using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty
> > space.  No need to mill all that copper away.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/xM8sTEw3OLQ?t=5m41s
>
I too have seen eagle fall apart recently. I'll see about kicad for my 
next board.  Thanks Lawrence for the heads up, I thought it was me.
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-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

On Sunday 08 April 2018 01:05:53 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Is anyone using a CNC mill to make PCBs?  The video linked below shows
> someone doing this on a small mill with Mach 3.  The PCB is certainly
> not high tech.  The parts are all through hole with 0.1 inch lead
> pitch and it is one side only.  Right out of the 1970's but it is
> exactly what I want to make.   More complex PCBs can go to oshpark
>
> Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
> convert Gerber files to g-code files.
>
I have done that. Composed the things in eagle, then made gcode out of it 
with pcb-gcode.  Worked but not real well for double sided because in 
the first instance I wasn't able to arrange it so I could solder both 
sides if the board and had to use a thin iron tip and melt away the 
sides of the photo-interrupters.  But its been in my mini-lathe as the 
spindle encoder for several years now. I should put a higher resolution 
encoder on it as I've since found that an overkill times more resolution 
encoder allows lots more Pgain to be used. 

Registration of drill holes was done by putting a small brass tube for a 
contact in one corner of the pallet holding the board, determining its 
xy offsets, and zeroing the machine to that using a sewing machine 
threader wire made quite sharp in profile mounted in a brass tube, and 
writing a hole finder routine. Spin the wire in the chuck using g38.2 in 
all 4 directions after driving the mill to put the spinning wire inside 
the end of the tube. By spinning the wire it was electrically a perfect 
cone. And the positioning repeatability was well within a thou.

I was able to drill a thru hole halfway thru the board from both sides 
with good results, looked like I had drilled all the way thru, on an hf 
micromill I've cnc'd with ball screws. Obviously I had to make a new 
pallet for each size of pcb, using 0-80 flathead screws to fasten the 
board into the pallet. And I had to fine sand the boards bottom side 
once cut so the etching throw up on the edge of a trace didn't hold the 
bottom of the board up off the pallet a thou or so. It worked, and I've 
made several other boards that way, but really should have sent the 
double sided stuff to oshpark. Quicker to a usable product.  Try not to 
cut any deeper than just enough to remove the copper, cutting into the 
glass is hell on the v bit. FWIW, setting the bit to the boards surface 
will offset the tool well into the glass as the drill chuck s tightened, 
requiring a higher safe z setting when generating the gcode. Using a 
drill chuck can also distort the cut, so use a suitable collet for top 
results.

 > Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to
> route copper, Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through
> and a few micro side drill bits for the through holes.
>
> BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time
> by using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No
> need to mill all that copper away.

True.

> https://youtu.be/xM8sTEw3OLQ?t=5m41s

Sounds like a lot of work, but I had fun proving I could do it.  Next 
week, I'd send it to oshpark...  Or figure out how to plate thru-holes.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread Peter Rosenblom

When the bit gets dull it will leave some frayed edges, witch can be stoned
away. I run it at 21K rpm and 550 mm/min. 3 passes with 0.17 mm stepover.

Hopefully the finnish comes across. most of the traces are 0.4mm. also
there are VIA's mounted in the picture.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RUnnMHVvuJaenvhs2

I havent used a reflow oven, but it's no problem just soldering the SMT
with a soldering iron.Altough solderbridges can be a problem sometimes.
 If you want to get fancy you can use "liquid tin plating
".
Leaves a good result, but as there are alot of copper left on the board,
one of thoes bags dosent last long. I have also fooled around with UV
cureable soldermask. But the smell and extra steps to get a finnished
boards sets off.


2018-04-08 10:55 GMT+02:00 Chris Albertson :

> Peter,
>
> I looked it those engraver bits.   Microscopic.What speed to you turn
> them at?   100K RPM?
>
> Also I looked at the autoleveller.  Seem like a good idea.  I'm working on
> adding automatic level to my 3D printer.   But I hope my mill does not have
> a 0.1mm tilt.
>
> Are you able to solder SMDs with out first tinning or solder past.  The
> milled boards are just plan copper.  Do they reflow?  I figured I'd use
> this technique for 0.1 inch lead parts
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:21 AM, Peter Rosenblom 
> wrote:
>
> > I use KiCAD for schematic and layout. A typical trace would be 0.4mm. The
> > smallest tracers I go is 0.3mm. Anything thinner i the results vary alot.
> > As for SMD's SOT23-6 and SOIC is a comfortable packages to work with.
> > For CAM I use flatcam , with is quite messy at
> first,
> > but has alot of opportunities to tweak settings. It also has a very good
> > tool for making aliment holes when doing sided boards. It can also
> > "mill-drill" with is convenient.
> >
> > I use Autoleveller  after the gcode has
> > been generated by flatcam. Even though i use generous amounts of double
> > sided tape as work holding , and leveled spoilplate I still get
> noticeable
> > better results when I level the board first.
> >
> > For engraving bits i really like theese :
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-HM-Engraver-3-175-40-CNC-
> > Engraving-Bits-PCBs-PCB-Endmill-VHM/112827385707?hash=
> > item1a4509476b:g:m0IAAOSwa~BYXBl2
> >
> > They give good results for tents to stay sharp for many more boards than
> > the really cheap chineese ones. Although I have had some good success
> with
> > thoes cheap ones aswell, just not as frequent =).
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > 2018-04-08 8:20 GMT+02:00 Marcus Bowman  > eclipse.co.uk
> > >:
> >
> > >
> > > On 8 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
> > > convert
> > > > Gerber files to g-code files.
> > >
> > > The video mentions CopperCAM, but the CopperCAM site says it takes in
> > some
> > > Gerber files, but doesn't give enough details of the "output files".
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to
> > > route
> > > > copper,
> > >
> > > Engraving tools are cheap and work quite well on pcb material.
> > >
> > > And dust extraction is a must. The guy in the video really needs to
> think
> > > about abrasive particles entering his airways.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through and a few
> > > > micro side drill bits for the through holes.
> > > >
> > > > BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time
> > by
> > > > using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No
> need
> > to
> > > > mill all that copper away.
> > >
> > > +1 to that, unless the circuit demands low inter-layer capacitance.
> > >
> > > Marcus
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech

Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread Chris Albertson

Peter,

I looked it those engraver bits.   Microscopic.What speed to you turn
them at?   100K RPM?

Also I looked at the autoleveller.  Seem like a good idea.  I'm working on
adding automatic level to my 3D printer.   But I hope my mill does not have
a 0.1mm tilt.

Are you able to solder SMDs with out first tinning or solder past.  The
milled boards are just plan copper.  Do they reflow?  I figured I'd use
this technique for 0.1 inch lead parts



On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:21 AM, Peter Rosenblom  wrote:

> I use KiCAD for schematic and layout. A typical trace would be 0.4mm. The
> smallest tracers I go is 0.3mm. Anything thinner i the results vary alot.
> As for SMD's SOT23-6 and SOIC is a comfortable packages to work with.
> For CAM I use flatcam , with is quite messy at first,
> but has alot of opportunities to tweak settings. It also has a very good
> tool for making aliment holes when doing sided boards. It can also
> "mill-drill" with is convenient.
>
> I use Autoleveller  after the gcode has
> been generated by flatcam. Even though i use generous amounts of double
> sided tape as work holding , and leveled spoilplate I still get noticeable
> better results when I level the board first.
>
> For engraving bits i really like theese :
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-HM-Engraver-3-175-40-CNC-
> Engraving-Bits-PCBs-PCB-Endmill-VHM/112827385707?hash=
> item1a4509476b:g:m0IAAOSwa~BYXBl2
>
> They give good results for tents to stay sharp for many more boards than
> the really cheap chineese ones. Although I have had some good success with
> thoes cheap ones aswell, just not as frequent =).
>
> /Peter
>
> 2018-04-08 8:20 GMT+02:00 Marcus Bowman  eclipse.co.uk
> >:
>
> >
> > On 8 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
> > convert
> > > Gerber files to g-code files.
> >
> > The video mentions CopperCAM, but the CopperCAM site says it takes in
> some
> > Gerber files, but doesn't give enough details of the "output files".
> >
> > >
> > > Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to
> > route
> > > copper,
> >
> > Engraving tools are cheap and work quite well on pcb material.
> >
> > And dust extraction is a must. The guy in the video really needs to think
> > about abrasive particles entering his airways.
> >
> >
> > > Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through and a few
> > > micro side drill bits for the through holes.
> > >
> > > BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time
> by
> > > using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No need
> to
> > > mill all that copper away.
> >
> > +1 to that, unless the circuit demands low inter-layer capacitance.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread Chris Albertson

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:20 PM, Marcus Bowman <
marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

>
> On 8 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> > Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
> convert
> > Gerber files to g-code files.
>
> The video mentions CopperCAM, but the CopperCAM site says it takes in some
> Gerber files, but doesn't give enough details of the "output files".
>

CopperCAM seems to be Windows-only and a commercial product.So far in
my asking around I've found two open source solutions.  Now I need to try
them pcb2gcode and FlatCAM.

Yu said "engraving tools" but a pointed tool must leave a bad surface
finish.  I'm guessing not having tried this yet

>


-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread Chris Albertson

The kind of PCB I want to make is simple.  Many complex parts can be bought
on ebay as "breakout boards".   I want to use these breakout boards as if
they were ICs   In other words I want to replace my collection of flying
Dupont wires and mini-size solderless breadboards with 1970 vintage PCBs
 Just like the guy in the video.

Thanks for the lead on pcb2gcode.   From another list I found out about
"flatCAM".   It is open source linux/mac/windows and convert berbers
and excellent files to g-code.   see http://flatcam.org   I have only
looked at it for about 20 minutes.   I will look at pcb2gcode too.  thanks

I've known about eagle and cicada for a long time.   What happened is KiCAD
picked up funding from CERN and with a paid staff progress was fast.   I've
decided to move from Eagle too even if I am a big user of Fusion 360.

What tools are used? I mean the cutting tools.  Can I use "normal" milling
machine spindle RPMs or is a 20,000 RPM router needed?   The end mill in
the video looks microscopic.

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:00 PM, Lawrence Glaister  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> For the PCB milling, I used to use eagle and the pcbgcode plugin for the
> longest time. Eagle got kind of funky after autocad bought them and is now
> mostly a subscription service.
>
> I now use kicad for the schematic and pcb design and an open source
> program called pcb2gcode to convert gerbers to gcode files for linuxcnc. I
> just completed a board I sent off to https://www.seeedstudio.com/fu
> sion.html for production. Smooth as silk and unbeatable prices. (10
> boards 3.8x2.5" for $4.41(March Sale) + shipping).
>
> I then designed and milled a small board for a calibration jig and used
> the pcb2gcode to convert the bottom copper gerber to linuxcnc gcode files.
> Again, pretty smooth once one gets the isolation and offset parameters
> figured out.
>
> I think kicad is a much superior package to eagle and has no restrictions
> on boards size or schematic size. As with learning a new cad system, it
> took a couple of youtube videos and a couple of days of practice, but it
> really only took a few days to go from nothing to ordering pcbs. Well worth
> the investment in time. The current kicad V4 release worked the best for
> me I tried V5 from git, but it wasnt quite workable yet. The advantage
> of V5 is that it will be able to import eagle project schematic and PCB
> files.
>
> I have done quite a few PCBs by milling, and there are a few tricks like
> using wider traces and trying to keep most surface mount parts and traces
> on the bottom layer and use the top layer for jumpers and through hole
> parts to avoid 2 sided milling. One sided pcbs are much less critical to
> mill as they are milled, drilled and cutout without changing the mounting.
> This avoids a lot of headaches of trying to get top and bottom layers
> aligned.
>
> cheers
> Lawrence Glaister VE7IT
> Nanoose Bay BC, Canada
>
> On 2018-04-07 10:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
>> Is anyone using a CNC mill to make PCBs?  The video linked below shows
>> someone doing this on a small mill with Mach 3.  The PCB is certainly not
>> high tech.  The parts are all through hole with 0.1 inch lead pitch and it
>> is one side only.  Right out of the 1970's but it is exactly what I want
>> to
>> make.   More complex PCBs can go to oshpark
>>
>> Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
>> convert
>> Gerber files to g-code files.
>>
>> Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to
>> route
>> copper, Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through and a few
>> micro side drill bits for the through holes.
>>
>> BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time by
>> using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No need to
>> mill all that copper away.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/xM8sTEw3OLQ?t=5m41s
>>
>>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread Peter Rosenblom

I use KiCAD for schematic and layout. A typical trace would be 0.4mm. The
smallest tracers I go is 0.3mm. Anything thinner i the results vary alot.
As for SMD's SOT23-6 and SOIC is a comfortable packages to work with.
For CAM I use flatcam , with is quite messy at first,
but has alot of opportunities to tweak settings. It also has a very good
tool for making aliment holes when doing sided boards. It can also
"mill-drill" with is convenient.

I use Autoleveller  after the gcode has
been generated by flatcam. Even though i use generous amounts of double
sided tape as work holding , and leveled spoilplate I still get noticeable
better results when I level the board first.

For engraving bits i really like theese :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-HM-Engraver-3-175-40-CNC-Engraving-Bits-PCBs-PCB-Endmill-VHM/112827385707?hash=item1a4509476b:g:m0IAAOSwa~BYXBl2

They give good results for tents to stay sharp for many more boards than
the really cheap chineese ones. Although I have had some good success with
thoes cheap ones aswell, just not as frequent =).

/Peter

2018-04-08 8:20 GMT+02:00 Marcus Bowman :

>
> On 8 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> > Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to
> convert
> > Gerber files to g-code files.
>
> The video mentions CopperCAM, but the CopperCAM site says it takes in some
> Gerber files, but doesn't give enough details of the "output files".
>
> >
> > Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to
> route
> > copper,
>
> Engraving tools are cheap and work quite well on pcb material.
>
> And dust extraction is a must. The guy in the video really needs to think
> about abrasive particles entering his airways.
>
>
> > Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through and a few
> > micro side drill bits for the through holes.
> >
> > BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time by
> > using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No need to
> > mill all that copper away.
>
> +1 to that, unless the circuit demands low inter-layer capacitance.
>
> Marcus
>
>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread Marcus Bowman


On 8 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Chris Albertson wrote:
> 
> Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to convert
> Gerber files to g-code files.

The video mentions CopperCAM, but the CopperCAM site says it takes in some 
Gerber files, but doesn't give enough details of the "output files".

> 
> Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to route
> copper,

Engraving tools are cheap and work quite well on pcb material.

And dust extraction is a must. The guy in the video really needs to think about 
abrasive particles entering his airways.


> Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through and a few
> micro side drill bits for the through holes.
> 
> BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time by
> using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No need to
> mill all that copper away.

+1 to that, unless the circuit demands low inter-layer capacitance.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2018-04-08 Thread Lawrence Glaister


Hi Chris,

For the PCB milling, I used to use eagle and the pcbgcode plugin for the 
longest time. Eagle got kind of funky after autocad bought them and is 
now mostly a subscription service.


I now use kicad for the schematic and pcb design and an open source 
program called pcb2gcode to convert gerbers to gcode files for linuxcnc. 
I just completed a board I sent off to 
https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion.html for production. Smooth as silk 
and unbeatable prices. (10 boards 3.8x2.5" for $4.41(March Sale) + 
shipping).


I then designed and milled a small board for a calibration jig and used 
the pcb2gcode to convert the bottom copper gerber to linuxcnc gcode 
files. Again, pretty smooth once one gets the isolation and offset 
parameters figured out.


I think kicad is a much superior package to eagle and has no 
restrictions on boards size or schematic size. As with learning a new 
cad system, it took a couple of youtube videos and a couple of days of 
practice, but it really only took a few days to go from nothing to 
ordering pcbs. Well worth the investment in time. The current kicad V4 
release worked the best for me I tried V5 from git, but it wasnt 
quite workable yet. The advantage of V5 is that it will be able to 
import eagle project schematic and PCB files.


I have done quite a few PCBs by milling, and there are a few tricks like 
using wider traces and trying to keep most surface mount parts and 
traces on the bottom layer and use the top layer for jumpers and through 
hole parts to avoid 2 sided milling. One sided pcbs are much less 
critical to mill as they are milled, drilled and cutout without changing 
the mounting. This avoids a lot of headaches of trying to get top and 
bottom layers aligned.


cheers
Lawrence Glaister VE7IT
Nanoose Bay BC, Canada

On 2018-04-07 10:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Is anyone using a CNC mill to make PCBs?  The video linked below shows
someone doing this on a small mill with Mach 3.  The PCB is certainly not
high tech.  The parts are all through hole with 0.1 inch lead pitch and it
is one side only.  Right out of the 1970's but it is exactly what I want to
make.   More complex PCBs can go to oshpark

Is there a Linux based tool chain?   The part I don't see is how to convert
Gerber files to g-code files.

Then what tools work best?  I think three are needed tiny end mill to route
copper, Tiny spiral mill for cutting the PCB all the way through and a few
micro side drill bits for the through holes.

BTW it seems like the guy in the video could have saved a lot of time by
using a (fake) ground plane that flooded all the empty space.  No need to
mill all that copper away.

https://youtu.be/xM8sTEw3OLQ?t=5m41s



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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-29 Thread Gene Heskett

On Tuesday 29 August 2017 06:26:45 Johann Beukes wrote:

> Thanks Gene
> Is this something that I can correct in the settings? Its my first
> machine build so my learning curve is very very steep.
> Thanks in advance.
>
If you arrived at that -322 by adjusting it until a dial indicator said 
it was right, it wouldn't take a very big angular difference between the 
angle the dial was held at, and the actual travel direction to account 
for the 320 to 322 error. I'd set the driver for a divide by 8, and the 
step scale to 640. But at the same time, I do not think of that as the 
source of the randomization.

You are I assume feeding 5 volt logic to all + terminals on the driver, 
and the output pin of the breakout board to the individual - terminal.  
This use of the logic zero as the active part of the signal gives a much 
higher drive capability from the logic to the driver.

I am not mentally comfortable with dirsetup and dirholds shorter than 
step pulses. If that driver demands 5 u-sec step signals, (thats a bit 
slow) I would extend the dirsetup and dirholds to 6 or 7 u-secs just to 
make sure it can't change direction in the middle of a step.

Ideas to check IOW.

> On 29 Aug 2017 12:13, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:
> > On Monday 28 August 2017 16:25:06 Johann Beukes wrote:
> > > Ok guys
> > > Here's some more info on my problem.
> > > I am very new to cnc so bare with me.
> > > For example: Let say I want to cut a 10mm OD. The first part will
> > > be spot on. The second will be 15 microns under and the third will
> > > be 15 microns over and so it fluctuates with no definate
> > > repeatablility. I have checked the x axis and my backlash is only
> > > 5 microns so the mechanical side is ruled out.
> > >
> > > Here are some perameters from the .ini file
> > > Dirsetup is 2500
> > > Dirhold is 2500
> > > Steplen 5000
> > > Stepspace 5000
> > > Stepscale -322 on a 2.5mm ballscrew.
> > > Using a leadshine D808 drive.
> >
> > I am having some mental headscratching with these figures.  I looked
> > that drive up, and its one of the newer servo-steppers with a 1000
> > line encoder in the motor for feedback.  That statement leaves some
> > ambiguity because a 1000 slot encoder would be, to a quadrature
> > circuit, 4000 edges per revolution. So is it a 250 line, giving 1000
> > edges or a 1000 line, giving 4000 edges?
> >
> > > I have been battling with this for 8 weeks with no success.
> > >
> > > Any help from you will be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Awaiting your responce.
> > >
> > > Best regards.
> > >
> > > Johann Beukes
> > >
> > > On 28 Aug 2017 14:47, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Monday 28 August 2017 07:52:14 jeremy youngs wrote:
> > > > My 860 drives gave me a very hard time early on.only much
> > > > sifting through the Chenglish did I realize the drive steps on
> > > > the rise and fall. Requiring 1/2 the steps calculated.
> > >
> > > I have not found that to be the case here with a 'DM'860. Odd
> > > indeed. The only comment I'd make is that the microstep current
> > > mapping is somewhat less than ideal.  It might be enlightening to
> > > put a scope probe on the supply lines? Perhaps its ringing with
> > > the changes in current draw?  Just a SWAG mind you.
> > >
> > > > On Aug 27, 2017 11:12 PM, "Johann Beukes" 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi guys
> > > > > I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does
> > > > > not hold size at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor
> > > > > and the DS808 drive. The Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold
> > > > > 2500, Steplen 5000, Stepspace 5000 and stepscale at -322. The
> > > > > ballscrew has a 2.5mm pitch and the steps per rev are set at
> > > > > 800.
> >
> > Which since the motor is a 1.8 degree per full step unless its a 3
> > phase, is equ to a /4 setting in the driver, in which case it would
> > be 320 steps per millimeter, not 322. The source of some of my head
> > scratching since I am assuming the machine unit is a millimeter.
> >
> > Personally I'd like to see the microstepping at a higher resolution
> > than the encoder, or the steps per rev at /8 or even /16 if that did
> > not exceed the input bandwidth which at the G0 speed which the pdf
> > said was 200 kilohertz. But your 5 on 5 off step times are
> > restricting you to 100 kilohertz. Converted back to MAXVEL, thats
> > 312.5 rpms at the motor, times the 2.5 of the screw=781.25mm/m,
> > which if my math is correct, is marching along at a good speed for
> > an x drive.
> >
> > Can you access the driver and see/adjust the deadband and backlash
> > settings?
> >
> > Do you have a heater or AC source directly on the machine that could
> > effect its temperature on the same time scale as making the part?
> > Even coolant temps ought to be checked if coolant is used.
> >
> > Grasping at straws here for lack of info. Its even possible that you
> > are the first to use one of these integrated drives, and that the

Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-29 Thread Johann Beukes

Thanks Gene
Is this something that I can correct in the settings? Its my first machine
build so my learning curve is very very steep.
Thanks in advance.

On 29 Aug 2017 12:13, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:

> On Monday 28 August 2017 16:25:06 Johann Beukes wrote:
>
> > Ok guys
> > Here's some more info on my problem.
> > I am very new to cnc so bare with me.
> > For example: Let say I want to cut a 10mm OD. The first part will be
> > spot on. The second will be 15 microns under and the third will be 15
> > microns over and so it fluctuates with no definate repeatablility.
> > I have checked the x axis and my backlash is only 5 microns so the
> > mechanical side is ruled out.
> >
> > Here are some perameters from the .ini file
> > Dirsetup is 2500
> > Dirhold is 2500
> > Steplen 5000
> > Stepspace 5000
> > Stepscale -322 on a 2.5mm ballscrew.
> > Using a leadshine D808 drive.
>
> I am having some mental headscratching with these figures.  I looked that
> drive up, and its one of the newer servo-steppers with a 1000 line
> encoder in the motor for feedback.  That statement leaves some ambiguity
> because a 1000 slot encoder would be, to a quadrature circuit, 4000
> edges per revolution. So is it a 250 line, giving 1000 edges or a 1000
> line, giving 4000 edges?
>
> >
> > I have been battling with this for 8 weeks with no success.
> >
> > Any help from you will be appreciated.
> >
> > Awaiting your responce.
> >
> > Best regards.
> >
> > Johann Beukes
> >
> > On 28 Aug 2017 14:47, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:
> >
> > On Monday 28 August 2017 07:52:14 jeremy youngs wrote:
> > > My 860 drives gave me a very hard time early on.only much sifting
> > > through the Chenglish did I realize the drive steps on the rise and
> > > fall. Requiring 1/2 the steps calculated.
> >
> > I have not found that to be the case here with a 'DM'860. Odd indeed.
> > The only comment I'd make is that the microstep current mapping is
> > somewhat less than ideal.  It might be enlightening to put a scope
> > probe on the supply lines? Perhaps its ringing with the changes in
> > current draw?  Just a SWAG mind you.
> >
> > > On Aug 27, 2017 11:12 PM, "Johann Beukes" 
> wrote:
> > > > Hi guys
> > > > I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not
> > > > hold size at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the
> > > > DS808 drive. The Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen
> > > > 5000, Stepspace 5000 and stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a
> > > > 2.5mm pitch and the steps per rev are set at 800.
>
> Which since the motor is a 1.8 degree per full step unless its a 3 phase,
> is equ to a /4 setting in the driver, in which case it would be 320
> steps per millimeter, not 322. The source of some of my head scratching
> since I am assuming the machine unit is a millimeter.
>
> Personally I'd like to see the microstepping at a higher resolution than
> the encoder, or the steps per rev at /8 or even /16 if that did not
> exceed the input bandwidth which at the G0 speed which the pdf said was
> 200 kilohertz. But your 5 on 5 off step times are restricting you to 100
> kilohertz. Converted back to MAXVEL, thats 312.5 rpms at the motor,
> times the 2.5 of the screw=781.25mm/m, which if my math is correct, is
> marching along at a good speed for an x drive.
>
> Can you access the driver and see/adjust the deadband and backlash
> settings?
>
> Do you have a heater or AC source directly on the machine that could
> effect its temperature on the same time scale as making the part? Even
> coolant temps ought to be checked if coolant is used.
>
> Grasping at straws here for lack of info. Its even possible that you are
> the first to use one of these integrated drives, and that the rest of us
> can learn a bit about the care and feeding of this newer tech.
>
> There is, in the  some data where one or two of the
> guys put an encoder on a stepper and incorporated that into the control
> loop, and there might be some clues in those case stories.  Might be
> worth the time to read them if you have not yet.
>
> > > > Can anybody please give me some advice?
> > > > Thanks
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > 
> > >--  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >

Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-29 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 28 August 2017 16:25:06 Johann Beukes wrote:

> Ok guys
> Here's some more info on my problem.
> I am very new to cnc so bare with me.
> For example: Let say I want to cut a 10mm OD. The first part will be
> spot on. The second will be 15 microns under and the third will be 15
> microns over and so it fluctuates with no definate repeatablility.
> I have checked the x axis and my backlash is only 5 microns so the
> mechanical side is ruled out.
>
> Here are some perameters from the .ini file
> Dirsetup is 2500
> Dirhold is 2500
> Steplen 5000
> Stepspace 5000
> Stepscale -322 on a 2.5mm ballscrew.
> Using a leadshine D808 drive.

I am having some mental headscratching with these figures.  I looked that 
drive up, and its one of the newer servo-steppers with a 1000 line 
encoder in the motor for feedback.  That statement leaves some ambiguity 
because a 1000 slot encoder would be, to a quadrature circuit, 4000 
edges per revolution. So is it a 250 line, giving 1000 edges or a 1000 
line, giving 4000 edges?

>
> I have been battling with this for 8 weeks with no success.
>
> Any help from you will be appreciated.
>
> Awaiting your responce.
>
> Best regards.
>
> Johann Beukes
>
> On 28 Aug 2017 14:47, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:
>
> On Monday 28 August 2017 07:52:14 jeremy youngs wrote:
> > My 860 drives gave me a very hard time early on.only much sifting
> > through the Chenglish did I realize the drive steps on the rise and
> > fall. Requiring 1/2 the steps calculated.
>
> I have not found that to be the case here with a 'DM'860. Odd indeed.
> The only comment I'd make is that the microstep current mapping is
> somewhat less than ideal.  It might be enlightening to put a scope
> probe on the supply lines? Perhaps its ringing with the changes in
> current draw?  Just a SWAG mind you.
>
> > On Aug 27, 2017 11:12 PM, "Johann Beukes"  
wrote:
> > > Hi guys
> > > I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not
> > > hold size at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the
> > > DS808 drive. The Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen
> > > 5000, Stepspace 5000 and stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a
> > > 2.5mm pitch and the steps per rev are set at 800.

Which since the motor is a 1.8 degree per full step unless its a 3 phase, 
is equ to a /4 setting in the driver, in which case it would be 320 
steps per millimeter, not 322. The source of some of my head scratching 
since I am assuming the machine unit is a millimeter.

Personally I'd like to see the microstepping at a higher resolution than 
the encoder, or the steps per rev at /8 or even /16 if that did not 
exceed the input bandwidth which at the G0 speed which the pdf said was 
200 kilohertz. But your 5 on 5 off step times are restricting you to 100 
kilohertz. Converted back to MAXVEL, thats 312.5 rpms at the motor, 
times the 2.5 of the screw=781.25mm/m, which if my math is correct, is 
marching along at a good speed for an x drive.

Can you access the driver and see/adjust the deadband and backlash 
settings?

Do you have a heater or AC source directly on the machine that could 
effect its temperature on the same time scale as making the part? Even 
coolant temps ought to be checked if coolant is used.

Grasping at straws here for lack of info. Its even possible that you are 
the first to use one of these integrated drives, and that the rest of us  
can learn a bit about the care and feeding of this newer tech.

There is, in the  some data where one or two of the 
guys put an encoder on a stepper and incorporated that into the control 
loop, and there might be some clues in those case stories.  Might be 
worth the time to read them if you have not yet.

> > > Can anybody please give me some advice?
> > > Thanks
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > 
> >--  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the

Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Przemek Klosowski

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Ed  wrote:

>  Am I right that 15 microns translates to .00038 inches?

More like 0.6mil--slightly more but still  software problems aren't the
likely cause. What is the expected resolution from a single motor step?
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Ed


On 08/28/2017 03:25 PM, Johann Beukes wrote:

Ok guys
Here's some more info on my problem.
I am very new to cnc so bare with me.
For example: Let say I want to cut a 10mm OD. The first part will be spot
on. The second will be 15 microns under and the third will be 15 microns
over and so it fluctuates with no definate repeatablility.
I have checked the x axis and my backlash is only 5 microns so the
mechanical side is ruled out.

First verify the actual placement of the tool.  Make a simple program 
that moves the tool in and out against a dial indicator using a feed 
rate rather than rapid moves. If the movement repeats very consistently 
then my guess is the cutting process itself. It is common to see 
variations depending on material and condition, sharpness of the tool, 
angle of tool, feedrate, surface speed, etc. All of these can affect how 
the diameter and finish come out.  Am I right that 15 microns translates 
to .00038 inches? Ifso that is not to bad if dealing with gummy 1018 
material.


Ed.


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Johann Beukes

Ok guys
Here's some more info on my problem.
I am very new to cnc so bare with me.
For example: Let say I want to cut a 10mm OD. The first part will be spot
on. The second will be 15 microns under and the third will be 15 microns
over and so it fluctuates with no definate repeatablility.
I have checked the x axis and my backlash is only 5 microns so the
mechanical side is ruled out.

Here are some perameters from the .ini file
Dirsetup is 2500
Dirhold is 2500
Steplen 5000
Stepspace 5000
Stepscale -322 on a 2.5mm ballscrew.
Using a leadshine D808 drive.

I have been battling with this for 8 weeks with no success.

Any help from you will be appreciated.

Awaiting your responce.

Best regards.

Johann Beukes

On 28 Aug 2017 14:47, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:

On Monday 28 August 2017 07:52:14 jeremy youngs wrote:

> My 860 drives gave me a very hard time early on.only much sifting
> through the Chenglish did I realize the drive steps on the rise and
> fall. Requiring 1/2 the steps calculated.

I have not found that to be the case here with a 'DM'860. Odd indeed.
The only comment I'd make is that the microstep current mapping is
somewhat less than ideal.  It might be enlightening to put a scope probe
on the supply lines? Perhaps its ringing with the changes in current
draw?  Just a SWAG mind you.
>
> On Aug 27, 2017 11:12 PM, "Johann Beukes"  wrote:
> > Hi guys
> > I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not
> > hold size at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the
> > DS808 drive. The Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen
> > 5000, Stepspace 5000 and stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a
> > 2.5mm pitch and the steps per rev are set at 800.
> > Can anybody please give me some advice?
> > Thanks
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 28 August 2017 07:52:14 jeremy youngs wrote:

> My 860 drives gave me a very hard time early on.only much sifting
> through the Chenglish did I realize the drive steps on the rise and
> fall. Requiring 1/2 the steps calculated.

I have not found that to be the case here with a 'DM'860. Odd indeed.  
The only comment I'd make is that the microstep current mapping is 
somewhat less than ideal.  It might be enlightening to put a scope probe 
on the supply lines? Perhaps its ringing with the changes in current 
draw?  Just a SWAG mind you.
>
> On Aug 27, 2017 11:12 PM, "Johann Beukes"  wrote:
> > Hi guys
> > I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not
> > hold size at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the
> > DS808 drive. The Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen
> > 5000, Stepspace 5000 and stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a
> > 2.5mm pitch and the steps per rev are set at 800.
> > Can anybody please give me some advice?
> > Thanks
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Johann Beukes

Hi Jeremy
How do I calculage that and where would I do the correction in the settings?
Thanks

On 28 Aug 2017 13:52, "jeremy youngs"  wrote:

> My 860 drives gave me a very hard time early on.only much sifting through
> the Chenglish did I realize the drive steps on the rise and fall. Requiring
> 1/2 the steps calculated
>
> On Aug 27, 2017 11:12 PM, "Johann Beukes"  wrote:
>
> > Hi guys
> > I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not hold
> size
> > at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the DS808 drive. The
> > Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen 5000, Stepspace 5000 and
> > stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a 2.5mm pitch and the steps per rev
> > are set at 800.
> > Can anybody please give me some advice?
> > Thanks
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread jeremy youngs

My 860 drives gave me a very hard time early on.only much sifting through
the Chenglish did I realize the drive steps on the rise and fall. Requiring
1/2 the steps calculated

On Aug 27, 2017 11:12 PM, "Johann Beukes"  wrote:

> Hi guys
> I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not hold size
> at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the DS808 drive. The
> Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen 5000, Stepspace 5000 and
> stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a 2.5mm pitch and the steps per rev
> are set at 800.
> Can anybody please give me some advice?
> Thanks
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 28 August 2017 07:02:27 Johann Beukes wrote:

> Hi Gene
> Thanks so much. Would it be possible to get yojr mail adress so I can
> send you some more info on the drives and so forth please?
> beukes1...@gmail.com Thanks
>
> On 28 Aug 2017 12:48, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:

You have it above. However, sending it to me as a PM does the list a 
severe disservice.

Send it to the list so that all can learn, including what you eventually 
did to fix it.  Mutual education for all.

Are you new to linux?  Its sometimes hard for a Windows user, used to all 
the secrecy involved, to appreciate the openness of the linux world. 
Come on in, I think you will find the folks here very helpful. There are 
on this list, the authors of this software, some of which have their own 
products to sell and support. Many are also machine shop 
owner/operators.

As for me, the resident old fart, I'll be 83 in October, retired tv chief 
engineer, C.E.T. & what used to be a 1st Phone.  I am not an all 
encompassing guru, and the only "diploma's" I have are grammer school, 
G.E.D. and the University of Hard Knocks. But I have accumulated a 
decent list of BTDT's.

So send away, but send it to the list please.

> > On Monday 28 August 2017 03:49:17 Marius Liebenberg wrote:
> > > Hi Johan
> > >
> > > You will have to provide a bit more detail in order to get
> > > assistance. Please explain what you mean by "does not hold size at
> > > all" Explain how:
> > > 1) you discovered the problem and
> > > 2) how you measured the result and
> > > 3) what you done to solve it thus far.
> > >
> > > Also give details on the controller version and GUI that you use.
> >
> > This might be that wobbly drunken duck created when the drivers are
> > wired - to ground, and + to the signal. Most circuits can pull down
> > as much as 10x what they can pull up, which lights the led in the
> > drivers input opto stuff up well. Reverseing that drive polarity is
> > easy though.
> >
> > You tie the + terminal to the logic's + supply, and the - signal to
> > the breakout boards output.
> >
> > I've never heard of that driver, so some info on it could be
> > usefull.
> >
> > > -- Original Message --
> > > From: "Johann Beukes" 
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Sent: 2017-08-28 06:12:00
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)
> > >
> > > >Hi guys
> > > >I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not
> > > > hold size
> > > >at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the DS808
> > > > drive. The
> > > >Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen 5000, Stepspace
> > > > 5000 and stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a 2.5mm pitch and
> > > > the steps per rev
> > > >are set at 800.
> > > >Can anybody please give me some advice?
> > > >Thanks
> > > >-
> > > > - Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > ___
> > > >Emc-users mailing list
> > > >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > ---
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> > > software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > > --
> > >  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> > 
> > --
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> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page

Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Johann Beukes

Hi Gene
Thanks so much. Would it be possible to get yojr mail adress so I can send
you some more info on the drives and so forth please? beukes1...@gmail.com
Thanks

On 28 Aug 2017 12:48, "Gene Heskett"  wrote:

> On Monday 28 August 2017 03:49:17 Marius Liebenberg wrote:
>
> > Hi Johan
> >
> > You will have to provide a bit more detail in order to get assistance.
> > Please explain what you mean by "does not hold size at all"
> > Explain how:
> > 1) you discovered the problem and
> > 2) how you measured the result and
> > 3) what you done to solve it thus far.
> >
> > Also give details on the controller version and GUI that you use.
>
> This might be that wobbly drunken duck created when the drivers are
> wired - to ground, and + to the signal. Most circuits can pull down as
> much as 10x what they can pull up, which lights the led in the drivers
> input opto stuff up well. Reverseing that drive polarity is easy though.
>
> You tie the + terminal to the logic's + supply, and the - signal to the
> breakout boards output.
>
> I've never heard of that driver, so some info on it could be usefull.
>
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Johann Beukes" 
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Sent: 2017-08-28 06:12:00
> > Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)
> >
> > >Hi guys
> > >I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not hold
> > >size
> > >at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the DS808 drive.
> > >The
> > >Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen 5000, Stepspace 5000
> > > and stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a 2.5mm pitch and the steps
> > > per rev
> > >are set at 800.
> > >Can anybody please give me some advice?
> > >Thanks
> > >-
> > >- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > >___
> > >Emc-users mailing list
> > >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 28 August 2017 03:49:17 Marius Liebenberg wrote:

> Hi Johan
>
> You will have to provide a bit more detail in order to get assistance.
> Please explain what you mean by "does not hold size at all"
> Explain how:
> 1) you discovered the problem and
> 2) how you measured the result and
> 3) what you done to solve it thus far.
>
> Also give details on the controller version and GUI that you use.

This might be that wobbly drunken duck created when the drivers are 
wired - to ground, and + to the signal. Most circuits can pull down as 
much as 10x what they can pull up, which lights the led in the drivers 
input opto stuff up well. Reverseing that drive polarity is easy though.  

You tie the + terminal to the logic's + supply, and the - signal to the 
breakout boards output.

I've never heard of that driver, so some info on it could be usefull.

> -- Original Message --
> From: "Johann Beukes" 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: 2017-08-28 06:12:00
> Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)
>
> >Hi guys
> >I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not hold
> >size
> >at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the DS808 drive.
> >The
> >Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen 5000, Stepspace 5000
> > and stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a 2.5mm pitch and the steps
> > per rev
> >are set at 800.
> >Can anybody please give me some advice?
> >Thanks
> >-
> >- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >___
> >Emc-users mailing list
> >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-08-28 Thread Marius Liebenberg


Hi Johan

You will have to provide a bit more detail in order to get assistance.
Please explain what you mean by "does not hold size at all"
Explain how:
1) you discovered the problem and
2) how you measured the result and
3) what you done to solve it thus far.

Also give details on the controller version and GUI that you use.

-- Original Message --
From: "Johann Beukes" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: 2017-08-28 06:12:00
Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)


Hi guys
I am struggeling alot with my lathe X axis. The machine does not hold 
size
at all. I am using The Leadshine ESM-22430 motor and the DS808 drive. 
The

Dirsetup is set at 2500, Dirhold 2500, Steplen 5000, Stepspace 5000 and
stepscale at -322. The ballscrew has a 2.5mm pitch and the steps per 
rev

are set at 800.
Can anybody please give me some advice?
Thanks
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-03-10 Thread Gene Heskett

On Friday 10 March 2017 11:33:05 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/10/2017 02:22 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > I asked about how to characterize a servo motor here, got some good
> > answers.  Thanks. Turns out I have some capable DC servo motors.
> >
> > Now one more question:   How are people connecting these motors?  
> > It looks to me that machine kit/LinuxCNC/EMC can read the quadrature
> > encoder and product PWM to drive the motor.   If so then I'D need a
> > dual H-bridge and a power supply.It could also produce a step
> > and direction signal and I might use a Gecko 320X controller.
>
> You really can't generate PWM at reasonable frequency and
> time resolution in software.
> So, in general, you need a PWM generator in hardware.  If
> you want to use Machinekit on the Beagle Bone, the PRU is
> kind of in-between, and probably will work.  Or, Mesa and
> Pico Systems (my company) have devices that can generate the
> PWM in hardware.
> Pico Systems has the Universal PWM Controller, and PWM servo
> amplifiers to run most medium-sized servo motors.
> See
> http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3
>ts_id=19 and
> http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3
>ts_id=26 for more info.
>
As for this latter servo driver, I am using 2 of them, a bit off target 
for a servo, but they have made truly excellent spindle drivers for 1 
horse class dc brushed motors here. Response times, and extra overhead 
in the power has caused me to insert a limit3 in the signal path to the 
pwmgen to control the acceleration rates on the TLM (a small lathe) to 
prevent destruction of drive parts due the the mass of the chuck on TLM.  
In both cases I am useing hardware pwmgen's with a cycle rate in the 10 
kilohertz range, so the control rate is essentially the servo-thread 
rate.  That rate demands faster opto's if opto-isolated breakout boards 
are used. In the case of TLM they were avoided by feeding the pwm 
directly to the pwm-servo, but on the G0704, I had to pull and bypass 
that one opto else the control was extremely non-linear.  With it 
bypassed, control non-linearity is well within tolerance, 5% of the 
requested speed from 100-2700 revs. In both cases, there is an optical 
A/B/X encoder on the spindle for speed/velocity feedback, and with a PID 
stage, speed vs load is very stiff. Thats very close to vfd performance 
at a quite a few less sheckels.

Highly recommended by grandpa Gene, for motors rated below 160 volt dc 
drive and less than 20 amps locked rotor.

> The original Gecko 320 has some issues with tightness of the
> servo loop, ie. with some motors and power supply voltages,
> it allows a LOT of slack.  I have not tried the 320X to see
> if it does better.
>
> Jon

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-03-10 Thread Jon Elson

On 03/10/2017 02:22 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> I asked about how to characterize a servo motor here, got some good
> answers.  Thanks. Turns out I have some capable DC servo motors.
>
> Now one more question:   How are people connecting these motors?   It looks
> to me that machine kit/LinuxCNC/EMC can read the quadrature encoder and
> product PWM to drive the motor.   If so then I'D need a dual H-bridge and a
> power supply.It could also produce a step and direction signal and I
> might use a Gecko 320X controller.
You really can't generate PWM at reasonable frequency and 
time resolution in software.
So, in general, you need a PWM generator in hardware.  If 
you want to use Machinekit on the Beagle Bone, the PRU is 
kind of in-between, and probably will work.  Or, Mesa and 
Pico Systems (my company) have devices that can generate the 
PWM in hardware.
Pico Systems has the Universal PWM Controller, and PWM servo 
amplifiers to run most medium-sized servo motors.
See
http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_id=19
and
http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_id=26
for more info.


The original Gecko 320 has some issues with tightness of the 
servo loop, ie. with some motors and power supply voltages, 
it allows a LOT of slack.  I have not tried the 320X to see 
if it does better.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2017-03-10 Thread andy pugh

On 10 March 2017 at 08:22, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> Now one more question:   How are people connecting these motors?   It looks
> to me that machine kit/LinuxCNC/EMC can read the quadrature encoder and
> product PWM to drive the motor.   If so then I'D need a dual H-bridge and a
> power supply.

Lots of options exist. You can try eBay for used AMC drives, they come
in various models.
Also: http://www.pico-systems.com/pwmservo.html
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product=83_90_id=141
(Note that drives 2 motors per card)
https://granitedevices.com/products/

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2016-10-28 Thread andy pugh

On 28 October 2016 at 21:48, W. Martinjak  wrote:
> 10 Days from Missouri to Austria.

Are you aware of Duzi, just over the border?
http://www.mesanet.eu

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2016-10-28 Thread W. Martinjak

Availability: Out Of Stock
:)

I would suggest
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/category=66

JT's support is very well and fast.

10 Days from Missouri to Austria.


On 2016-10-28 22:35, andy pugh wrote:
> On 28 October 2016 at 21:27, Davide <77...@tiscali.it> wrote:
>> Hi, i'm reading encouraging news about using the mesa 7i92 and other
>> ethernet cards with lcnc , but i cannot find that  through european 
>> resellers.
>> Do you know how to buy that in europe?
>
> http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/product_id=614=7i92=true_category=true
>

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2016-10-28 Thread andy pugh

On 28 October 2016 at 21:35, andy pugh  wrote:

> http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/product_id=614=7i92=true_category=true

Sorry, I just noticed, out of stock. :-(

I can't tell if they are out of stock here:
http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/FPGA-Karten//::386.html

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2016-10-28 Thread andy pugh

On 28 October 2016 at 21:27, Davide <77...@tiscali.it> wrote:
> Hi, i'm reading encouraging news about using the mesa 7i92 and other
> ethernet cards with lcnc , but i cannot find that  through european resellers.
> Do you know how to buy that in europe?


http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/product_id=614=7i92=true_category=true

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2014-03-28 Thread andy pugh

On 28 March 2014 02:33, Greg Bentzinger skullwo...@yahoo.com wrote:

 My question tonite is how much hard drive space is needed with a 10.04 
 install then getting all the other source files, compilers etc. so that I 
 could do a make and install master as RIP.

The system I use for LinuxCNC development has an 8GB SSD and has
plenty of space, even with all the git branches.

I like these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190703794464
-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2014-03-27 Thread Dave Cole

The Borg Collective of LinuxCNC must be busy ... so only one mind is 
responding via this email...;-)

40 gigs is plenty.   I think you will find that after you install 
everything you can think, and do a git clone to setup a RIP, you will 
still have way over 30 gigs of drive space left.

Dave



On 3/27/2014 9:33 PM, Greg Bentzinger wrote:
 Hello Hive mind of LCNC;

 My question tonite is how much hard drive space is needed with a 10.04 
 install then getting all the other source files, compilers etc. so that I 
 could do a make and install master as RIP.

 System has a 40 GB hdd, Installed 10.04 from CD then LCNC via script. No 
 extras that I know of. (did this install last summer) and the box has just 
 been sitting here collecting dust.

 Between battling doctors (spent the holidays and watched the ball drop from 
 hospital bed), battle of the budget (did I mention Doctors?), battle with my 
 machine iron etc. I have been feeling a bit beat up.

 I figure now was a good time to practice fighting code gremlins and getting 
 my build/make/config skills into shape since I have nothing to loose but my 
 pride and a few pennies worth of AC power.


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

2013-11-11 Thread aaron moore

Thanks for all your help on this one. As a result I have improved performace a 
bit and maybe a more powerful z stepper driver will make it even better.
Thanks again
Aaron
- Original Message -
From: Gene Heskett
Sent: 11/10/13 02:58 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

On Sunday 10 November 2013 09:38:22 andy pugh did opine:  As I appear to have 
been ignored...   The problem probably is linked to the limited lookahead, 
but if you  only notice it when the rotary is involved, then it may be that 
the  rotary acceleration is much too low.  It is acceleration that limits how 
fast a particular segment is  allowed to run, and the lowest-accel axis will 
dominate.   Angular axis acceleration numbers are relatively enormous as a  
consequence of the units. Tens of thousands of degrees/s/s I didn't go that 
extreme, but I am likely too low too, I was considering that the table has no 
inertia since its geared down 90 times, and was more concerned with the added 
mass of the all steel couplings I had made, which probably weigh about the same 
as the 425 motor's armature, and are about the same diameter. Some day I should 
make a new motor mount, sized 2 shorter, and using one of the alu flex 
couplings which would be ounces lighter. I bought a pag of them 
 on fleabay when I started on the lathe. But I would also insert ball thrust 
washers for worm end play which I do not now have. That made a large difference 
in how much movement power actually got to the XY tables. Using those, hidden 
in the bearing hubs on the xy tables, with factorylike 20 tpi 10mm acme screws, 
a stalled spindle will break off a 1/4 solid carbide end mill, ditto if it 
plugs up cutting dead soft alu. I need more spindle revs and horsepower, about 
10x more, badly. 200 watt motor, 2500 revs wide open, sucks. Its a toy. Cheers, 
Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, 
jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) It is 
indeed desirable to be well descended, but the glory belongs to our ancestors. 
-- Plutarch A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 
million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. 
-- 
November 
 Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance 
with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error 
checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors 
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Re-Form Furniture
Aaron Moore 
Conileigh
Skinners Bottom
Redruth
Cornwall
TR16 5DY

Tel: 01209 890084
Mob: 07805686188
Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk
--
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

2013-11-11 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 11 November 2013 12:35:44 aaron moore did opine:

 Thanks for all your help on this one. As a result I have improved
 performace a bit and maybe a more powerful z stepper driver will make
 it even better. Thanks again
 Aaron

Gah!  Can't you train that GMX Web Mailer to do quotes better?  First off, 
its throwing away all line feeds.  No one but me now knows where Andy's 
message ends and my reply begins.  Thats not good netiquet.  Worse than 
GoogleGroups even except they triple space everything after throwing away 
all the original line breaks.

We don't normally top post as you did above, but usually reply by mixing 
our replies into the conversation.  As I'm doing here.

 - Original Message -
 From: Gene Heskett
 Sent: 11/10/13 02:58 PM
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems
 
 On Sunday 10 November 2013 09:38:22 andy pugh did opine:  As I appear
 to have been ignored...   The problem probably is linked to the
 limited lookahead, but if you  only notice it when the rotary is
 involved, then it may be that the  rotary acceleration is much too
 low.  It is acceleration that limits how fast a particular segment is
  allowed to run, and the lowest-accel axis will dominate.   Angular
 axis acceleration numbers are relatively enormous as a  consequence of
 the units. Tens of thousands of degrees/s/s I didn't go that extreme,
 but I am likely too low too, I was considering that the table has no
 inertia since its geared down 90 times, and was more concerned with the
 added mass of the all steel couplings I had made, which probably weigh
 about the same as the 425 motor's armature, and are about the same
 diameter. Some day I should make a new motor mount, sized 2 shorter,
 and using one of the alu flex couplings which would be ounces lighter.
 I bought a pag of them on fleabay when I started on the lathe. But I
 would also insert ball thrust washers for worm end play which I do not
 now have. That made a large difference in how much movement power
 actually got to the XY tables. Using those, hidden in the bearing hubs
 on the xy tables, with factorylike 20 tpi 10mm acme screws, a stalled
 spindle will break off a 1/4 solid carbide end mill, ditto if it plugs
 up cutting dead soft alu. I need more spindle revs and horsepower,
 about 10x more, badly. 200 watt motor, 2500 revs wide open, sucks. Its
 a toy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of
 liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed
 Howdershelt (Author) It is indeed desirable to be well descended, but
 the glory belongs to our ancestors. -- Plutarch A pen in the hand of
 this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands
 of law-abiding citizens.

Now, because it stripped all line breaks, it has also broken any signature 
detection.  Normally, the \n-- \n that WAS after the Cheers, Gene above 
is the quoting mechanisms stopper so we don't endlessly repeat signatures 
in a long conversation.  Please try a different email agent, maybe 
thunbderbird?
 ---
 --- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate
 application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
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 ktrk ___ Emc-users mailing
 list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
 
 
 
 Re-Form Furniture
 Aaron Moore
 Conileigh
 Skinners Bottom
 Redruth
 Cornwall
 TR16 5DY
 
 Tel: 01209 890084
 Mob: 07805686188
 Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
 Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk
 
 -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
 Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models.
 Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning.
 Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See
 abstracts and register
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.cl
 ktrk ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

audiophile, n:
Someone who listens to the equipment instead of the music.
A pen in the hand of this president is far more
dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
 law-abiding citizens.

--
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

2013-11-10 Thread andy pugh

As I appear to have been ignored...

The problem probably is linked to the limited lookahead, but if you
only notice it when the rotary is involved, then it may be that the
rotary acceleration is much too low.
It is acceleration that limits how fast a particular segment is
allowed to run, and the lowest-accel axis will dominate.

Angular axis acceleration numbers are relatively enormous as a
consequence of the units. Tens of thousands of degrees/s/s

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most 
from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

2013-11-10 Thread Gene Heskett

On Sunday 10 November 2013 09:38:22 andy pugh did opine:

 As I appear to have been ignored...
 
 The problem probably is linked to the limited lookahead, but if you
 only notice it when the rotary is involved, then it may be that the
 rotary acceleration is much too low.
 It is acceleration that limits how fast a particular segment is
 allowed to run, and the lowest-accel axis will dominate.
 
 Angular axis acceleration numbers are relatively enormous as a
 consequence of the units. Tens of thousands of degrees/s/s

I didn't go that extreme, but I am likely too low too, I was considering 
that the table has no inertia since its geared down 90 times, and was more 
concerned with the added mass of the all steel couplings I had made, which 
probably weigh about the same as the 425 motor's armature, and are about 
the same diameter.  Some day I should make a new motor mount, sized 2 
shorter, and using one of the alu flex couplings which would be ounces 
lighter.  I bought a pag of them on fleabay when I started on the lathe.
But I would also insert ball thrust washers for worm end play which I do 
not now have.

That made a large difference in how much movement power actually got to the 
XY tables.

Using those, hidden in the bearing hubs on the xy tables, with factorylike 
20 tpi 10mm acme screws, a stalled spindle will break off a 1/4 solid 
carbide end mill, ditto if it plugs up cutting dead soft alu.  I need more 
spindle revs and horsepower, about 10x more, badly. 200 watt motor, 2500 
revs wide open, sucks. Its a toy.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

It is indeed desirable to be well descended, but the glory belongs to
our ancestors.
-- Plutarch
A pen in the hand of this president is far more
dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
 law-abiding citizens.

--
November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most 
from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-11-09 Thread Marius Liebenberg

Aaron
When you cut stuff with a lot of little cuts, especially curved cuts, 
the speed will always be slow. If you look at the constant velocity 
parameters of any CNC machine you will find that the machine has to 
accelerate and then decelerate again at the beginning and end of every 
cut or move. Unless you have a very light gantry with a huge 
acceleration, you will have a slow response.  When the cuts are very 
short the machine does not have enough time to get to the requested feed 
rate before it has to slow down again. It is one of the pains of cutting 
3D stuff.


On 2013/11/09 12:58 PM, aaron moore wrote:
 Hi
 I am trying to get my head around running a rotary axis on top of a 3 axis 
 router, but I am having problems;

 The main one is low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and increasing 
 feed and acceleration in the ini file to increase the speed, but in makes no 
 difference. I am trying to cut a helical final cut, which seems to have lots 
 of tiny moves, but other files I have tried are almost as slow. Can any one 
 offer some advice? The computer I run Lcnc on is very old an slow, does that 
 have any bearing?
 Thanx in advance
 Aaron

 Re-Form Furniture
 Aaron Moore
 Conileigh
 Skinners Bottom
 Redruth
 Cornwall
 TR16 5DY

 Tel: 01209 890084
 Mob: 07805686188
 Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
 Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk
 --
 November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
 Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
 techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most
 from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
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MasterCut cc
Cel: +27 82 698 3251
Tel: +27 12 743 6064
Fax: +27 86 551 8029
Skype: marius_d.liebenberg


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-11-09 Thread andy pugh

On 9 November 2013 10:58, aaron moore aaronmo...@linuxmail.org wrote:

 The main one is low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and increasing 
 feed and acceleration in the ini file to increase the speed, but in makes no 
 difference. I am trying to cut a helical final cut, which seems to have lots 
 of tiny moves, but other files I have tried are almost as slow. Can any one 
 offer some advice?

The lots of tiny moves might be the problem.

What is the acceleration on the rotary axis? Is it anywhere near the
actual physical maximum? You simply might not have increased the
A-axis accel enough.
The scaling on rotary axes is such that you can end up with some very
big numbers indeed.
Consider a direct-coupled 5mm pitch ballscrew, and a direct-coupled
rotary axis both coupled to a motor that can accelerate at 25,000
steps/sec/sec.
That gives you a linear acceleration of 625mm/s/s or 25 inch/s/s or
45,000 degrees/s/s. Even geared 30:1 with a worm gear your rotary axis
acceleration is likely to be twice the linear accel in mm or 60 x in
inches. (and that was assuming no gearing between the motors and
screws).

The reason this matters is that LinuxCNC likes to be able to stop by
the end of the next move (this is because it doesn't plan beyond the
end of the next move, which is something being actively worked on at
the moment).

How fast will a simple G1 X500 A7200 run? If that runs good and fast,
then that is a sign that it is lookahead related, and lookahead issues
are made much worse by low acceleration values.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-11-09 Thread Belli Button

I think LCNC can only execute one Gcode per servo cycle. Does it help to
reduce your servo cycle time?



-Original Message-
From: aaron moore [mailto:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org] 
Sent: 09 November 2013 12:58 PM
To: EMC userslist
Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)

Hi
I am trying to get my head around running a rotary axis on top of a 3 axis
router, but I am having problems;

The main one is low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and increasing
feed and acceleration in the ini file to increase the speed, but in makes no
difference. I am trying to cut a helical final cut, which seems to have lots
of tiny moves, but other files I have tried are almost as slow. Can any one
offer some advice? The computer I run Lcnc on is very old an slow, does that
have any bearing?
Thanx in advance
Aaron

Re-Form Furniture
Aaron Moore
Conileigh
Skinners Bottom
Redruth
Cornwall
TR16 5DY

Tel: 01209 890084
Mob: 07805686188
Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk

--
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-11-09 Thread Marius Liebenberg

I don't think it will help as the problem is acceleration over distance. 
I.E. Distance of move to short to reach max feed rate.

On 2013/11/09 01:47 PM, Belli Button wrote:
 I think LCNC can only execute one Gcode per servo cycle. Does it help to
 reduce your servo cycle time?



 -Original Message-
 From: aaron moore [mailto:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org]
 Sent: 09 November 2013 12:58 PM
 To: EMC userslist
 Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)

 Hi
 I am trying to get my head around running a rotary axis on top of a 3 axis
 router, but I am having problems;

 The main one is low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and increasing
 feed and acceleration in the ini file to increase the speed, but in makes no
 difference. I am trying to cut a helical final cut, which seems to have lots
 of tiny moves, but other files I have tried are almost as slow. Can any one
 offer some advice? The computer I run Lcnc on is very old an slow, does that
 have any bearing?
 Thanx in advance
 Aaron

 Re-Form Furniture
 Aaron Moore
 Conileigh
 Skinners Bottom
 Redruth
 Cornwall
 TR16 5DY

 Tel: 01209 890084
 Mob: 07805686188
 Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
 Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk
 
 --
 November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application
 performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for
 threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest
 Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


 --
 November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
 Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
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 from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
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Regards / Groete

Marius D. Liebenberg
MasterCut cc
Cel: +27 82 698 3251
Tel: +27 12 743 6064
Fax: +27 86 551 8029
Skype: marius_d.liebenberg


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-11-09 Thread aaron moore

I have a stepper system and know nothing about servo cycles.
- Original Message -
From: Belli Button
Sent: 11/09/13 11:47 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

I think LCNC can only execute one Gcode per servo cycle. Does it help to reduce 
your servo cycle time? -Original Message- From: aaron moore 
[mailto:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org] Sent: 09 November 2013 12:58 PM To: EMC 
userslist Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject) Hi I am trying to get my head 
around running a rotary axis on top of a 3 axis router, but I am having 
problems; The main one is low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and 
increasing feed and acceleration in the ini file to increase the speed, but in 
makes no difference. I am trying to cut a helical final cut, which seems to 
have lots of tiny moves, but other files I have tried are almost as slow. Can 
any one offer some advice? The computer I run Lcnc on is very old an slow, does 
that have any bearing? Thanx in advance Aaron Re-Form Furniture Aaron Moore 
Conileigh Skinners Bottom Redruth Cornwall TR16 5DY Tel: 01209 890084 Mob: 
07805686188 Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk 
---
 - -- November 
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Re-Form Furniture
Aaron Moore 
Conileigh
Skinners Bottom
Redruth
Cornwall
TR16 5DY

Tel: 01209 890084
Mob: 07805686188
Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk
--
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

2013-11-09 Thread aaron moore

Marius
Thanks for your replymakes sense. Does G64 p# work on rotary files/systems? 
It didn't seem to when I ran it.
Do you have any tips for reducing the numer of moves in a job?
Sorry. I forgot to put a subject up top,
Aaron
- Original Message -
From: Marius Liebenberg
Sent: 11/09/13 11:17 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

Aaron When you cut stuff with a lot of little cuts, especially curved cuts, the 
speed will always be slow. If you look at the constant velocity parameters of 
any CNC machine you will find that the machine has to accelerate and then 
decelerate again at the beginning and end of every cut or move. Unless you have 
a very light gantry with a huge acceleration, you will have a slow response. 
When the cuts are very short the machine does not have enough time to get to 
the requested feed rate before it has to slow down again. It is one of the 
pains of cutting 3D stuff. On 2013/11/09 12:58 PM, aaron moore wrote:  Hi  I 
am trying to get my head around running a rotary axis on top of a 3 axis 
router, but I am having problems;   The main one is low feed speed. I have 
tried editing the code and increasing feed and acceleration in the ini file to 
increase the speed, but in makes no difference. I am trying to cut a helical 
final cut, which seems to have lots of tiny moves, but other files I hav
 e tried are almost as slow. Can any one offer some advice? The computer I run 
Lcnc on is very old an slow, does that have any bearing?  Thanx in advance  
Aaron   Re-Form Furniture  Aaron Moore  Conileigh  Skinners Bottom  
Redruth  Cornwall  TR16 5DY   Tel: 01209 890084  Mob: 07805686188  
Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org  Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk  
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Re-Form Furniture
Aaron Moore 
Conileigh
Skinners Bottom
Redruth
Cornwall
TR16 5DY

Tel: 01209 890084
Mob: 07805686188
Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-11-09 Thread Gene Heskett

On Saturday 09 November 2013 10:11:49 Marius Liebenberg did opine:

 I don't think it will help as the problem is acceleration over distance.
 I.E. Distance of move to short to reach max feed rate.

The other problem no one has mentioned is that his LCNC machine is old  
slow, however the OP did not mention the base_thread times from his ini 
file.  Or his microstep ratios if he is using steppers.

I ran into this while exploring the merits of running my 2M542 drivers at 
higher microstep ratio's.  The atom board, running a base_thread of 23 
microseconds, is simply incapable to issuing enough steps per second to be 
able to hit the motors maximum speed capability when the microstep divisor 
is more than 8.  At 8, and a 2/1 gear between the 425 and the Z screw, I 
can move Z on the lathe at 60ipm.  At 8, its noisy, I think because I may 
not be on the sweet spot for motor currants so the thou or so gear lash in 
the 2/1 takes a beating despite the damper on the motor.  Some day I may 
convert it to belt drive just because of that.

At 16, it drops to 30ipm regardless of what else I set in the ini file, the 
23 u-sec base_thread cycle is tapped out and can't issue the steps fast 
enough.

So my question to the OP is: What is your base_thread period, and your 
microstep rate?
  
 On 2013/11/09 01:47 PM, Belli Button wrote:
  I think LCNC can only execute one Gcode per servo cycle. Does it help
  to reduce your servo cycle time?
  
  
  
  -Original Message-
  From: aaron moore [mailto:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org]
  Sent: 09 November 2013 12:58 PM
  To: EMC userslist
  Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)
  
  Hi
  I am trying to get my head around running a rotary axis on top of a 3
  axis router, but I am having problems;
  
  The main one is low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and
  increasing feed and acceleration in the ini file to increase the
  speed, but in makes no difference. I am trying to cut a helical final
  cut, which seems to have lots of tiny moves, but other files I have
  tried are almost as slow. Can any one offer some advice? The computer
  I run Lcnc on is very old an slow, does that have any bearing?
  Thanx in advance
  Aaron
  
  Re-Form Furniture
  Aaron Moore
  Conileigh
  Skinners Bottom
  Redruth
  Cornwall
  TR16 5DY
  
  Tel: 01209 890084
  Mob: 07805686188
  Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
  Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk
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Cheers, Gene
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(l)user error
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

2013-11-09 Thread Marius Liebenberg

Aaron
G64 will have some effect  but I cannot say how much. The amount of 
moves are really determined by you cam software. Some people do an 
aggressive roughing cycle to use as little time as possible and then 
they can afford the time spent on the finishing cut.
What you can try is to make your acceleration faster. Remember when 
cutting complex 3D stuff the speed of the move is only as fast as the 
slowest axis on the machine.

On 2013/11/09 03:14 PM, aaron moore wrote:
 Marius
 Thanks for your replymakes sense. Does G64 p# work on rotary 
 files/systems? It didn't seem to when I ran it.
 Do you have any tips for reducing the numer of moves in a job?
 Sorry. I forgot to put a subject up top,
 Aaron
 - Original Message -
 From: Marius Liebenberg
 Sent: 11/09/13 11:17 AM
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

 Aaron When you cut stuff with a lot of little cuts, especially curved cuts, 
 the speed will always be slow. If you look at the constant velocity 
 parameters of any CNC machine you will find that the machine has to 
 accelerate and then decelerate again at the beginning and end of every cut or 
 move. Unless you have a very light gantry with a huge acceleration, you will 
 have a slow response. When the cuts are very short the machine does not have 
 enough time to get to the requested feed rate before it has to slow down 
 again. It is one of the pains of cutting 3D stuff. On 2013/11/09 12:58 PM, 
 aaron moore wrote:  Hi  I am trying to get my head around running a rotary 
 axis on top of a 3 axis router, but I am having problems;   The main one is 
 low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and increasing feed and 
 acceleration in the ini file to increase the speed, but in makes no 
 difference. I am trying to cut a helical final cut, which seems to have lots 
 of tiny moves, but other files I h
 ave tried are almost as slow. Can any one offer some advice? The computer I 
run Lcnc on is very old an slow, does that have any bearing?  Thanx in advance 
 Aaron   Re-Form Furniture  Aaron Moore  Conileigh  Skinners Bottom  
Redruth  Cornwall  TR16 5DY   Tel: 01209 890084  Mob: 07805686188  
Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org  Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk  
-- 
 November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers  Accelerate application 
performance with scalable programming models. Explore  techniques for 
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Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register  
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___  Emc-users mailing list  
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  Groete Marius D. Liebenberg MasterCut cc Cel: +27 82 698 3251 Tel: +27 12 743 
6064 Fax: +27 86 551 8029 Skype: marius_d.liebenberg --- This email is free 
from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. 
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 Re-Form Furniture
 Aaron Moore
 Conileigh
 Skinners Bottom
 Redruth
 Cornwall
 TR16 5DY

 Tel: 01209 890084
 Mob: 07805686188
 Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
 Web: www.re-formfurniture.co.uk
 --
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 Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
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 from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
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Tel: +27 12 743 6064
Fax: +27 86 551 8029
Skype: marius_d.liebenberg


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)Rotary problems

2013-11-09 Thread Marius Alksnys

Aaron,

Marius L. is right about current LinuxCNC behaviour, but I would not say so 
about any CNC machine when you can let some amount of error in your 
toolpath, what G64P..Q.. (BTW, I suggest using Q parameter too) should do, 
but it does not do much in  LinuxCNC and your case actually yet. This is 
because it is limited to 2 moves of look-ahead only and keeps velocity low 
to be able to fully stop the machine at your set max accel values after 
those two lines of G code. This is like driving a car in a dense fog. The 
car could go much faster, but you can't because you don't see further safe 
distance you want to be able to stop. (Just a thought: how you could drive 
it if you would know by 100% there is nothing on your road?..)

To be straight, when I started using LinuxCNC (came from industrial 
machines, then Mach3 world which has big look-ahead capabilities) and I 
understood LinuxCNC look-ahead limitations, I was really upset. Maybe this 
is because I deal with 3D free-shape milling tasks mostly, which do have a 
lot of tiny segments, which make the toolpath and people who run those 
machines do count time as money..

But LinuxCNC people are trying to solve this problem and there are beta 
solutions in testing now. Look at thread Tech demo of circular arc 
blending on devel group. They got impressive results. And I can say this is 
the thing I am hoping and waiting from LinuxCNC most. And I hope it will not 
be limited to two or three axes / joints..

Another thing to try is NURBS G command.

Marius Alksnys

aaron moore aaronmo...@linuxmail.org wrote in 
message news:20131109131423.172...@gmx.com...
 Marius
 Thanks for your replymakes sense. Does G64 p# work on rotary 
 files/systems? It didn't seem to when I ran it.
 Do you have any tips for reducing the numer of moves in a job?
 Sorry. I forgot to put a subject up top,
 Aaron
 - Original Message -
 From: Marius Liebenberg
 Sent: 11/09/13 11:17 AM
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

 Aaron When you cut stuff with a lot of little cuts, especially curved 
 cuts, the speed will always be slow. If you look at the constant velocity 
 parameters of any CNC machine you will find that the machine has to 
 accelerate and then decelerate again at the beginning and end of every cut 
 or move. Unless you have a very light gantry with a huge acceleration, you 
 will have a slow response. When the cuts are very short the machine does 
 not have enough time to get to the requested feed rate before it has to 
 slow down again. It is one of the pains of cutting 3D stuff. On 2013/11/09 
 12:58 PM, aaron moore wrote:  Hi  I am trying to get my head around 
 running a rotary axis on top of a 3 axis router, but I am having problems; 
The main one is low feed speed. I have tried editing the code and inc
 reasing feed and acceleration in the ini file to increase the speed, but 
 in makes no difference. I am trying to cut a helical final cut, which 
 seems to have lots of tiny moves, but other files I have tried are almost 
 as slow. Can any one offer some advice? The computer I run Lcnc on is very 
 old an slow, does that have any bearing?  Thanx in advance  Aaron 




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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-08 Thread john d norton

If that would suit then I'm happy with that Andy

I would have too much io on the intended machine for just the p port

I was wanting to use the Mesa 5i25 7i76 png kit

Then the strip board with uln chip - is there anything else to go with
the chip apart from the required connectors

Is it just a case of field power to the chip signal to the chip and
output from the chip



John d norton

C/o John Norton Fabs Ltd

On 7 May 2013, at 02:04, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 7 May 2013 01:07, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote:

 http://www.baldor.com/support/Literature/Load.ashx/MN1942?ManNumber=MN1942

 Ah, OK, servo in step-dir mode. I was assuming stepper motors.

 8.1.6 says minimum 12V, max 30V, so you are going to need a buffer.

 The inputs are already opto-isolated so the UNL2003 seems about right.

 I suspect that many of the breakout boards on the market that say that
 they need a 5V supply would actually work perfectly happily on 24V
 (things like 
 http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/breakout-boards/398-zp5a-int.html
 for example), though I could imagine the indicator LEDs dying
 instantly.

 I have a whole tube of ULN2003 if you want me to bung a couple in the post.

 --
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 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-08 Thread andy pugh

On 8 May 2013 23:09, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote:

 I would have too much io on the intended machine for just the p port

 I was wanting to use the Mesa 5i25 7i76 png kit

In that case you might want to discuss with Mesa. it is entirely
possible that there is an easy way to make the 7i76 24V-compatible.

 Then the strip board with uln chip - is there anything else to go with
 the chip apart from the required connectors
 Is it just a case of field power to the chip signal to the chip and
 output from the chip

Pretty much, yes. The ULN is a switch-to-0V device, though, which
requires a bit of mental gymnastics if you are used to thinking about
+5V = yes 0V = no.

You need to think in terms of current flow through the optos on the
drive inputs. So +24V from your PSU goes to the + terminal of the
input, the relevant pin of the ULN connects to the - terminal of the
input, and the common ULN Earth/ground pin connects to the PSU 0V.
When there is 5V on the ULN input pin, then there is current flow into
the output pin to earth, the LED in the opto lights up, and a signal
is seen by the drive.

The ULN2003 is capable of 50V and 0.5A per output.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-06 Thread andy pugh

On 6 May 2013 19:15, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote:
 Can anybody suggest the best chip to use to get bettween the 5 volt
 step and dir output to 24volt that my drives will take

Just about any opto-isolator should work nicely.

Or a ULN2003 if you already have isolation and need significant current.

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-06 Thread Dave Caroline

I often use one of the ULN2002,2003,2004 series for that sort of work
You probably need the ULN2003, there are variants(later) ULN2803 too


Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-06 Thread john d norton

It's mainly having something to switch as fast as needed for step outputs
Is this going to be a custom job or is there some kind of dev board I
could get that'd have say just a subtitle chip on it ?

On 6 May 2013, at 19:42, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6 May 2013 19:15, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote:
 Can anybody suggest the best chip to use to get bettween the 5 volt
 step and dir output to 24volt that my drives will take

 Just about any opto-isolator should work nicely.

 Or a ULN2003 if you already have isolation and need significant current.

 --
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-06 Thread andy pugh

On 6 May 2013 21:57, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote:
 It's mainly having something to switch as fast as needed for step outputs
 Is this going to be a custom job or is there some kind of dev board I
 could get that'd have say just a subtitle chip on it ?

It's probably simplest to make something on a bit of stripboard.

But, are you absolutely sure that the drives need 24V? That would be
fairly unusual.

Do you have a link to the manual?

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-06 Thread john d norton

Yes

http://www.baldor.com/support/Literature/Load.ashx/MN1942?ManNumber=MN1942

Section 5.2.4.1

Many thanks

John d norton

C/o John Norton Fabs

On 7 May 2013, at 00:09, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

On 6 May 2013 21:57, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote:

It's mainly having something to switch as fast as needed for step outputs

Is this going to be a custom job or is there some kind of dev board I

could get that'd have say just a subtitle chip on it ?


It's probably simplest to make something on a bit of stripboard.

But, are you absolutely sure that the drives need 24V? That would be
fairly unusual.

Do you have a link to the manual?

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2013-05-06 Thread andy pugh

On 7 May 2013 01:07, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote:

 http://www.baldor.com/support/Literature/Load.ashx/MN1942?ManNumber=MN1942

Ah, OK, servo in step-dir mode. I was assuming stepper motors.

8.1.6 says minimum 12V, max 30V, so you are going to need a buffer.

The inputs are already opto-isolated so the UNL2003 seems about right.

I suspect that many of the breakout boards on the market that say that
they need a 5V supply would actually work perfectly happily on 24V
(things like 
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/breakout-boards/398-zp5a-int.html
for example), though I could imagine the indicator LEDs dying
instantly.

I have a whole tube of ULN2003 if you want me to bung a couple in the post.

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2012-08-22 Thread andy pugh

On 22 August 2012 16:54, Ricardo Moscoloni rmoscol...@gmail.com wrote:

 The setup is a fairly simple aplication for a filament winding machine,
 similar to a lathe, but with naming convention as this:

Do you really want to drive this machine with G-code?
I would be tempted just to mathematically link the X-stepgen to the A
stepgen position.

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2012-04-09 Thread charles green

is that a link to an easter egg?

--- On Sun, 4/8/12, Geoff Roehm 1947...@att.net wrote:

 From: Geoff Roehm 1947...@att.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, April 8, 2012, 8:23 PM
 1947...@att.net
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2012-03-14 Thread charles green

what do you suppose the laser wattage is?

--- On Tue, 3/13/12, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:

 From: dave dengv...@charter.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] (no subject)
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 11:38 AM
 This was sent to me by a guy at
 Boeing. Thought a few of you would
 appreciate the concept even tho the technology is a bit
 spendy. ;-)
 
 Dave
 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YgEOsZ8iJgfeature=g-all-ucontext=G2fe384fFWAA
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2012-03-14 Thread Anders Wallin

Renishaw website seems to indicate between 100 and 400 W.
The description ytterbium fibre laser would suggest a wavelength
around 1064nm (not the CO2 10um usually  used for laser-cutters)

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:19 PM, charles green xxzzb...@yahoo.com wrote:
 what do you suppose the laser wattage is?

 This was sent to me by a guy at
 Boeing. Thought a few of you would
 appreciate the concept even tho the technology is a bit
 spendy. ;-)

 Dave


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YgEOsZ8iJgfeature=g-all-ucontext=G2fe384fFWAA

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2012-02-25 Thread gene heskett

On Saturday, February 25, 2012 04:32:33 PM Greg Bernard did opine:

 The factory of the future:
 http://www.youtube.com/embed/nd5WGLWNllA?rel=0

Now that is how it should be done.

Unforch it doesn't seem to extend downward to the likes of the Jetta.  The 
one (a 2002 with a very healthy 4 banger) we had for about 18 months was 
the biggest headache I ever bought in 60 years of putting portable seats 
under my butt.  Non existent QC, 2 electric windows fell out ($400 ea), 
sunroof fell out to the tune of damned near $1600, 3 complete sets of 
headlight assemblies burned up their internal wiring, and it was so damned 
paranoid about unlocked doors you couldn't get out of it with the motor 
running to go hand a package to someone 20 feet away, without finding the 
^%# doors locked when you returned 15 seconds later.  The 4th time we had 
to pry the drivers door open far enough, scratching the paint clear to the 
tin under it, to get at the pushbutton on the armrest  unlock it, I said 
screw it and changed the make  vin on the title the same day.  I won't 
make that mistake ever again.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2012-02-25 Thread Frank Tkalcevic

 The factory of the future:
 http://www.youtube.com/embed/nd5WGLWNllA?rel=0

Almost.  I still see humans on the assembly line.


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2011-11-27 Thread Mark Wendt (Contractor)

On 11/26/2011 5:32 PM, Robert van dyke wrote:
 Please remove me from your mailing list.

 Bob Van Dyke
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See that little linky there at the bottom of your post?  The long one?  
If you click on that link, and scroll to the bottom of the page, there's 
an option for you to unsubscribe yourself.  You subscribed to the list, 
you have to unsubscribe yourself.

Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2011-05-19 Thread Jan de Kruyf

Chris,
was this a genuine posting or your personal spambot??

jan.


On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Chris Reynolds c_reynolds2...@yahoo.comwrote:

 It’s awesome!!! In no time you’ll rid of your problems!!!..
 http://news-trial.com/friends_links.php?coPage=14pj1


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2011-05-18 Thread Chris Reynolds

It’s awesome!!! In no time you’ll rid of your problems!!!.. 
http://news-trial.com/friends_links.php?coPage=14pj1

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-23 Thread Lester Caine

Jon Elson wrote:
 The IBM move elevated the least capable chip set to dominance and
   crippled the superior chip manufactures.
 
 Oh, we're talking about almost 30 years ago, now.
 OK, yes, the I86 architecture is an abomination of incomprehensible
 magnitude.

I have always said that IBM made TWO mistakes when designing the PC. The used a 
processor that no one else would touch simply because the outfit that designed 
it had stock they needed to dump at any price ... and software from a one man 
band who did not even own it ...

It was only ever IBM's name that gave any credibility to the package.

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-23 Thread Mark Wendt

Yeh, how else would we get to see toyl porn pics of Stuart's Enshu?  ;-)

Mark

On 09/22/2010 04:38 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
 On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 15:58 -0400, Don Stanley wrote:
 ... snip

 I think you are totally correct, the industry has been hijacked for fun
 instead of work.
  
 Where would the Internet (and in someway EMC2) be without porn?


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-23 Thread dave

On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 07:42 +0100, Lester Caine wrote:
 Jon Elson wrote:
  The IBM move elevated the least capable chip set to dominance and
crippled the superior chip manufactures.
  
  Oh, we're talking about almost 30 years ago, now.
  OK, yes, the I86 architecture is an abomination of incomprehensible
  magnitude.
 
 I have always said that IBM made TWO mistakes when designing the PC. The used 
 a 
 processor that no one else would touch simply because the outfit that 
 designed 
 it had stock they needed to dump at any price ... and software from a one man 
 band who did not even own it ...
 
 It was only ever IBM's name that gave any credibility to the package.
 
The IBM people at Boca Raton will tell you they ended up fixing a LOT of
MS-DOS code so it really worked. 

Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2010-09-22 Thread Andy Pugh

On 22 September 2010 04:15, Don Stanley dstanley1...@gmail.com wrote:

 If Anyone has a list of things needed it would be a life extender for me.
 Also if anyone has a favorite online store for these items I could work
 and live even longer.

The D510MO comes with only a back panel and 2 SATA cables.

www.mini-box.com has nearly everything you will need. (I can't see a
P-port pin-header to D-sub adapter there)

It is likely that your existing PSU will plug straight in to the
mini-ITX board as the connector is a 24 pin ATX socket. I have a
PicoPSU running off of system 12V power (which only occupies 20 of the
pins).

IDE drive compatibility might be a problem, Adaptors exist but I don't
know how well they work. I have set my system up with a SSD drive
(8GB) and so have a system with no moving parts.

eBay has everything, but not in a centralised location.

-- 
atp

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-22 Thread Kent A. Reed

  Don Stanley said, in part:

 I was grudgingly coming to the same conclusion. I did some comparisons
 today. I could not believe the  fastest computers in the shop with minimum
 graphics (the AMD Atahlon 64 4000+ we have trying to fix) only performs
 slightly better than a Pentium IV 400MHZ running EMC2.

The trouble is, Don, despite various O/S-developers' attempts to hide 
the hardware, it simply is not true that, except for speed, all 
computers are kind of the same.

For nearly a decade now, PC makers and their component suppliers have 
seen good profit margins in making two classes of PCs---media centers 
(which optimize for high throughput of audio and video with complex 
media-stream encoding/decoding requirements---think mpeg2, mpeg4, 
H.264,...) and game machines (which optimize for complex, detailed and 
fast changing computer-generated scenes including textures and the whole 
nine yards of graphics tricks---think DX8, DX9, DX10,...). In this same 
decade, electrical power consumption in the home and office has become a 
hot-button issue.

The user's perception of the speed and responsiveness of these machines 
has almost nothing to do with the qualities we need in real-time 
control. The qualities we need for real-time control have been designed 
out of these machines almost inadvertently as other goals are being 
pursued with new, improved multi-core, multi-threading CPUs with their 
new, improved North and South Bridges, new, improved power 
management, and all the other hardware paraphernalia. Old, un-improved 
Pentiums end up looking very good when your foremost goal is consistent, 
low latency.

When you look at the numbers of PCs and shrink-wrapped software packages 
that are shipped to consumers you realize that in comparison we 
constitute a market potential closely approximating zero. We don't 
generate any requirements worth considering in PC product planning. We 
just get to work with the result. Have you seen the Far Side cartoon of 
a frog with its tongue stuck to a jet plane that was flying over its 
lily pad? That's a metaphor for our situation.

One might think that there's an opportunity here for an entrepreneur to 
build and sell EMC2-customized computers, but such a person would be a 
small-volume buyer at the mercy of fickle suppliers, and I suspect folks 
in the CNC marketplace like Jon Elson, Steve Stallings, and others can 
also recite chapter-and-verse about the burden of after-sales support 
for something this technical. The only way I could imagine making money 
is to build custom controllers that are sold as part of a complete 
machine-tool system with a high purchase price and high annual 
maintenance fees. Oh, wait, isn't that what 

I feel your pain and I know that trying to explain why you have it 
doesn't make it go away. A lot of us on this mail list and its companion 
developers list have been hoping/struggling/arguing to find a path 
forward that minimizes the pain. There's been little enough joy so far.

On the positive side, once you get a platform that does function well 
with Linux/RTAI, then you have EMC2 and all that this implies.

Regards,
Kent

PS - sorry, all, for my recent faux pas with my email subject lines. 
When it's been too long since my last cup of coffee, I tend to not to 
check closely enough before clicking send.



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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-22 Thread dave

On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 12:05 -0400, Kent A. Reed wrote:
 Don Stanley said, in part:
 

 The user's perception of the speed and responsiveness of these machines 
 has almost nothing to do with the qualities we need in real-time 
 control. The qualities we need for real-time control have been designed 
 out of these machines almost inadvertently as other goals are being 
 pursued with new, improved multi-core, multi-threading CPUs with their 
 new, improved North and South Bridges, new, improved power 
 management, and all the other hardware paraphernalia. Old, un-improved 
 Pentiums end up looking very good when your foremost goal is consistent, 
 low latency.


 
 I feel your pain and I know that trying to explain why you have it 
 doesn't make it go away. A lot of us on this mail list and its companion 
 developers list have been hoping/struggling/arguing to find a path 
 forward that minimizes the pain. There's been little enough joy so far.
 
 On the positive side, once you get a platform that does function well 
 with Linux/RTAI, then you have EMC2 and all that this implies.
 
 Regards,
 Kent
 
 PS - sorry, all, for my recent faux pas with my email subject lines. 
 When it's been too long since my last cup of coffee, I tend to not to 
 check closely enough before clicking send.
 
 
Good post. Sorry to have snipped so much of it but...
All of the above is what makes the ARM/Beagle-board port so attractive. 
We don't need blazing speed, just blazing interrupt response and context
switching. 

Dave 



 
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 09:19 -0700, dave wrote:
 On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 12:05 -0400, Kent A. Reed wrote:
  Don Stanley said, in part:
... snip
 Old, un-improved 
  Pentiums end up looking very good when your foremost goal is consistent, 
  low latency.
... snip
 Good post. Sorry to have snipped so much of it but...
 All of the above is what makes the ARM/Beagle-board port so attractive. 
 We don't need blazing speed, just blazing interrupt response and context
 switching. 
 
 Dave 

I tend to think, what is made in the millions that closely does what I
need and can be modified to the task. I wonder if maybe a car engine or
appliance controller could be used for EMC2. My guess is that it would
be hard to hack the software on these, but the idea is that with the
proper conditions, they could be had for free, or low cost. Though these
controllers don,t have user interfaces, so a remote interface would need
to be developed too. 

Probably the best bang for the buck is to dumpster dive for an older ATX
PC. If you collect enough of them, one is bound to work. With my EMC2
PC's, I usually need to fiddle with the xorg.conf quite a bit so,
getting intimate and spending quality time with this file and the
troubleshooting section of the wiki is getting to be a requirement.

-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-22 Thread Peter C. Wallace

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010, Kirk Wallace wrote:

 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:01:24 -0700
 From: Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

 On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 09:19 -0700, dave wrote:
 On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 12:05 -0400, Kent A. Reed wrote:
 Don Stanley said, in part:
 ... snip
 Old, un-improved
 Pentiums end up looking very good when your foremost goal is consistent,
 low latency.
 ... snip
 Good post. Sorry to have snipped so much of it but...
 All of the above is what makes the ARM/Beagle-board port so attractive.
 We don't need blazing speed, just blazing interrupt response and context
 switching.

 Dave

 I tend to think, what is made in the millions that closely does what I
 need and can be modified to the task. I wonder if maybe a car engine or
 appliance controller could be used for EMC2. My guess is that it would
 be hard to hack the software on these, but the idea is that with the
 proper conditions, they could be had for free, or low cost. Though these
 controllers don,t have user interfaces, so a remote interface would need
 to be developed too.

 Probably the best bang for the buck is to dumpster dive for an older ATX
 PC. If you collect enough of them, one is bound to work. With my EMC2
 PC's, I usually need to fiddle with the xorg.conf quite a bit so,
 getting intimate and spending quality time with this file and the
 troubleshooting section of the wiki is getting to be a requirement.

 -- 
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA

Whats wrong with the Intel D510 motherboards at ~$80. I think they have ~8-10 
usec latency with the SMP 10.04 kernel.

Peter Wallace

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

dave wrote:

 Good post. Sorry to have snipped so much of it but...
 All of the above is what makes the ARM/Beagle-board port so attractive. 
 We don't need blazing speed, just blazing interrupt response and context
 switching. 
   
And, the irritating part is, we still have NO IDEA what the real 
performance of the
Beagle Board system is in this regard!  There are some numbers posted by 
the French
guys who did the RT-Linux port that weren't terrible, but they didn't 
look that great, either.
OK for servo interface use, probably not real good for stepgen.  But, 
that might be the
RT_Linux and not the basic hardware.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-22 Thread Colin Kingsbury

Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:05:07 -0400
From: Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

I feel your pain and I know that trying to explain why you have it
doesn't make it go away. A lot of us on this mail list and its companion
developers list have been hoping/struggling/arguing to find a path
forward that minimizes the pain. There's been little enough joy so far.

For what it's worth, I've had good luck so far with an Atom D510-based
system running the latest 10.04 LiveCD. I'm using it to run a stepper-based
system which needs 16,000 steps per inch, and can run it at 60IPM before the
motors stall. Since a larger machine would likely not use 1/4-20 leadscrews,
I think this comes close to a worst-case scenario.

I flight plan with a latency of 15000us. It occasionally exceeds that, but
seems to only be when I throw something big at it like a file copy. I'm
using a hard drive right now, but I've tested running it from a USB stick,
and I think the latency there is more stable. If I run it with glxgears
already running and don't push big files around, it stays under 10k. I've
cut a few PCBs on it, which involve fairly complex g-code programs, and
didn't see any obvious errors.

This setup was purchased new for around $175 shipped from Newegg. $75 for
the board, $40 for a chassis/PSU, $40 for 1GB of RAM, $25 for a refurbished
HD, and a few odds and ends like this parallel port header cable:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812196220cm_re=parallel-_-12-196-220-_-Product

I'm just one person and I may yet run into problems, but I wanted to add a
report of this combo looking promising. If there are any other tips besides
disabling hyperthreading that will help with latency (e.g. maybe a
particular flavor of RAM is better? Would 2GB be better than 1GB?) I'd like
to know them, but as it stands, I'm 100% happy with my setup.
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2010-09-22 Thread Don Stanley

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Andy Pugh a...@andypugh.fsnet.co.ukwrote:

 On 22 September 2010 04:15, Don Stanley dstanley1...@gmail.com wrote:

  If Anyone has a list of things needed it would be a life extender for me.
  Also if anyone has a favorite online store for these items I could work
  and live even longer.

 The D510MO comes with only a back panel and 2 SATA cables.

 www.mini-box.com has nearly everything you will need. (I can't see a
 P-port pin-header to D-sub adapter there)

 It is likely that your existing PSU will plug straight in to the
 mini-ITX board as the connector is a 24 pin ATX socket. I have a
 PicoPSU running off of system 12V power (which only occupies 20 of the
 pins).

Hi Andy;
It had not entered my mind to power the USC from the computer 12Volts.
The old keep the noise out of the computer mind set. But the printer cable
has already piped the USC ground into the motherboard.
If the USC input filter capacitor is able to swamp any noise from the
USC Isolated power chopper (on the new boards) that will work well
on my boards also. If it does not, a high frequency cap across the USC
power input will.
You guys are making me smarter every day, thanks.


 IDE drive compatibility might be a problem, Adaptors exist but I don't
 know how well they work. I have set my system up with a SSD drive
 (8GB) and so have a system with no moving parts.

 eBay has everything, but not in a centralised location.

 --
 atp

I had Google searched before the last email and found nothing useful.
After the email, out of frustration, I clicked the Book Store
(Amazon.com), and there was all the Worlds D510MOs with
lots of additional hardware. The D510MO manual indicates I have a
compatible power supply connector (12 x 2).
Looks like I am good to go in my old case with a D510MO and
SATA disk.
The only remaining Item is, buy or make a Header to D connector
cable for the parallel port.
This has turned out to be less aggravation than I expected (so far).

   And Many Thanks to all
Don



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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 10:29 -0700, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
 On Wed, 22 Sep 2010, Kirk Wallace wrote:
... snip
 Whats wrong with the Intel D510 motherboards at ~$80. I think they have ~8-10 
 usec latency with the SMP 10.04 kernel.
 
 
 Peter Wallace

Nothing. It would probably save temporal money. But for me right now
(and probably many others), if it isn't free, it's not in the budget.
For a lot of new EMCers going as far as you can for free, might be a
good thing. Upgrading to an FPGA card and servos can come later
hopefully. 

Thank goodness this list is free.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-22 Thread Don Stanley

Thanks Kent;
I guess my greatest disappointment is that was an AMD processor.
I have been routing for them from their beginning, and Zialog and
Motorola before that.
If IBM had not chose to Dumb Down their PC to stop the threat to
their computer line, we would have unimaginable computing capability
in a chips now.
The IBM move elevated the least capable chip set to dominance and
crippled the superior chip manufactures.

If the founder of Apple Computer had not been so anti industry (Commerce)
in the beginning, Motorola and his product would have reduced or stopped
the PC takeover. After that slow start Apple has been relegated to
A Better Me To, while the world went about making the PC over to
their liking (some for work and most for fun).

I think you are totally correct, the industry has been hijacked for fun
instead of work.

   Thanks again for helping try to resurrect a toy.
Heres hoping the D510MO get the job done.
   Don


On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com wrote:

  Don Stanley said, in part:

  I was grudgingly coming to the same conclusion. I did some comparisons
  today. I could not believe the  fastest computers in the shop with
 minimum
  graphics (the AMD Atahlon 64 4000+ we have trying to fix) only performs
  slightly better than a Pentium IV 400MHZ running EMC2.
 
 The trouble is, Don, despite various O/S-developers' attempts to hide
 the hardware, it simply is not true that, except for speed, all
 computers are kind of the same.

 For nearly a decade now, PC makers and their component suppliers have
 seen good profit margins in making two classes of PCs---media centers
 (which optimize for high throughput of audio and video with complex
 media-stream encoding/decoding requirements---think mpeg2, mpeg4,
 H.264,...) and game machines (which optimize for complex, detailed and
 fast changing computer-generated scenes including textures and the whole
 nine yards of graphics tricks---think DX8, DX9, DX10,...). In this same
 decade, electrical power consumption in the home and office has become a
 hot-button issue.

 The user's perception of the speed and responsiveness of these machines
 has almost nothing to do with the qualities we need in real-time
 control. The qualities we need for real-time control have been designed
 out of these machines almost inadvertently as other goals are being
 pursued with new, improved multi-core, multi-threading CPUs with their
 new, improved North and South Bridges, new, improved power
 management, and all the other hardware paraphernalia. Old, un-improved
 Pentiums end up looking very good when your foremost goal is consistent,
 low latency.

 When you look at the numbers of PCs and shrink-wrapped software packages
 that are shipped to consumers you realize that in comparison we
 constitute a market potential closely approximating zero. We don't
 generate any requirements worth considering in PC product planning. We
 just get to work with the result. Have you seen the Far Side cartoon of
 a frog with its tongue stuck to a jet plane that was flying over its
 lily pad? That's a metaphor for our situation.

 One might think that there's an opportunity here for an entrepreneur to
 build and sell EMC2-customized computers, but such a person would be a
 small-volume buyer at the mercy of fickle suppliers, and I suspect folks
 in the CNC marketplace like Jon Elson, Steve Stallings, and others can
 also recite chapter-and-verse about the burden of after-sales support
 for something this technical. The only way I could imagine making money
 is to build custom controllers that are sold as part of a complete
 machine-tool system with a high purchase price and high annual
 maintenance fees. Oh, wait, isn't that what 

 I feel your pain and I know that trying to explain why you have it
 doesn't make it go away. A lot of us on this mail list and its companion
 developers list have been hoping/struggling/arguing to find a path
 forward that minimizes the pain. There's been little enough joy so far.

 On the positive side, once you get a platform that does function well
 with Linux/RTAI, then you have EMC2 and all that this implies.

 Regards,
 Kent

 PS - sorry, all, for my recent faux pas with my email subject lines.
 When it's been too long since my last cup of coffee, I tend to not to
 check closely enough before clicking send.




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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 15:58 -0400, Don Stanley wrote:
... snip
 I think you are totally correct, the industry has been hijacked for fun
 instead of work.

Where would the Internet (and in someway EMC2) be without porn?
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2010-09-22 Thread Dave

On 9/21/2010 11:15 PM, Don Stanley wrote:
 This is going to be an extra effort for me living on the back side of the
 moon in the Appalachian mountains where the nearest computer store
 isn't, and all this has to be done on the Internet.


That is pretty much the norm for city folk now also... . ;-)

Newegg.com and Tigerdirect.com are my current favorites.  Newegg gets an 
order from me about once a month and they haven't let me down yet.

They ship very quickly.

There are some different makers of Mini ITX boards that use the D510 
chipset but they put a LPT port on the back of the board and I believe 
that some have onboard IDE headers also.

Do a search on Newegg for Mini ITX and they will pop up.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

2010-09-22 Thread Dave

On 9/22/2010 4:38 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
 On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 15:58 -0400, Don Stanley wrote:
 ... snip

 I think you are totally correct, the industry has been hijacked for fun
 instead of work.
  
 Where would the Internet (and in someway EMC2) be without porn?


Uh??  ..   care to explain further...??

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

Don Stanley wrote:
 It had not entered my mind to power the USC from the computer 12Volts.
 The old keep the noise out of the computer mind set. But the printer cable
 has already piped the USC ground into the motherboard.
 If the USC input filter capacitor is able to swamp any noise from the
 USC Isolated power chopper (on the new boards) that will work well
 on my boards also. If it does not, a high frequency cap across the USC
 power input will.
   
The 12 V in a computer is incredibly noisy, as it powers the spindle 
motors and head
arms of the hard drives.  If you put a scope or voltmeter on it, you'd 
be amazed, it will
jump between 11.0 and 12.5 V when there is disk drive activity.

There is a large MLC cap right at the switching regulator input and a 
large aluminum electrolytic right at the power input terminals.
I think you have nothing to worry about.  The isolating DC-DC converter 
has always been there, the new switching regulator
is not of the isolated type.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

Don Stanley wrote:
 If IBM had not chose to Dumb Down their PC to stop the threat to
 their computer line, we would have unimaginable computing capability
 in a chips now.
   
No, not really.  IBM has not been involved in the PC business for at 
least 4 years, now,
they sold their name (for the PC line) to a Chinese manufacturer.
 The IBM move elevated the least capable chip set to dominance and
 crippled the superior chip manufactures.
   
Oh, we're talking about almost 30 years ago, now.
OK, yes, the I86 architecture is an abomination of incomprehensible 
magnitude.
Check out Virtual DMA Services for Windows and you will find out there 
is an entire virtual
8088 IBM PC emulator in all later chips.  WHY?  So that the old PC games 
that took over a
DOS PC from a floppy and then played tricks with the floppy controller 
(which used DMA) to
verify that the floppy that had specially-formatted bad sectors was an 
original and not a pirated copy,
would run under Windows 3.1!  Yikes, what INCREDIBLE baggage to be 
dragging along.

But, if your argument was true, ARM, SPARC, DEC Alpha and 68K 
architectures would run
RINGS around the Pentium, etc.  But, they don't.  The problem is Gordon 
Moore's law has finally
expired (long live Gordon Moore!)  Notice that CPU speeds (about 3 GHz) 
have totally flattened
out after 3 decades of continuous increase.  Speeds have not increased 
at all in the last 5 years or so.
Only some major technical grand slam that completely breaks the current 
transistor architecture
will get us past this wall.  Some things can be parallelized, and some 
can't, so more cores is not
the overall solution.  We have gone through pretty much two full nodes 
of feature size shrink,
but speeds have not gone up, just how many cores can be put on a chip.  
Fundamental laws of
physics have caught up with the relentless shrinking of size and 
increase of speed.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system

Dave wrote:
 On 9/22/2010 4:38 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
   
 On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 15:58 -0400, Don Stanley wrote:
 ... snip

 
 Where would the Internet (and in someway EMC2) be without porn?

 

 Uh??  ..   care to explain further...??
   
He's talking about computer porn, I think he means gaming and internet 
video, etc.
Certainly, gaming has driven high-performance video cards down below 
$100, I paid $795
MANY years ago for a 1024 x 780 dumb frame-buffer VGA card for a CAD 
application.  If the gamers
hadn't created a market, the commodity cards that make open-gl 
applications like Axis
possible would be over $1000.  And, to an extent, gamers and the wide 
use of home and office
computers have all made our computers vastly cheaper than otherwise.  
EMC, the original one,
started out on Sun workstations that cost $50K each.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject) or, old system vs new system