from:"Peter C. Thompson via EV"

Re: [EVDL] Do EVs make green sense?

2023-01-05 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 1/4/23 1:35 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

Just one of the many issues to point out:

On 1/4/2023 12:29 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

The carbon footprint of Teslas
is not good when you correctly factor in the manufacturing footprint.



Do the same calcs for a Gas car - which makes the EV look far better.

Don't forget to add in the carbon footprint of generating the gasoline 
necessary for the ICE.

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Re: [EVDL] NEV is a stoopid idea. Moped is better

2021-05-24 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

FWIW, I was in Shanghai about 2 years ago - amazing transformation from 
ugly and smelly.  All of the motorcycles and 3-wheel delivery vehicles 
are now electric.  The noise level was dramatically reduced in addition 
to the smog reduction.


So NEVs do indeed have their place, as long as one keeps in mind the 
limitations of where they will be used.


Cheers, Peter

On 5/24/21 11:26 AM, Larry Gales via EV wrote:

The smaller you make a gas vehicle, the uglier, noisier, dirtier, they
become . In addition, they are proportionally less efficient.  So small gas
vehicles are generally a bad idea: they are responsible for much of the
horrific pollution you see in much of asia. .  But electric vehicles
downsize beautifully: they are always quiet, clean, and very efficient.
Given that 75% of all trips we make in cars today are within  10 miles, and
the average number of people in a car is 1.7, very small electric vehicles
could make a major difference in our cities.

Right now, the only type of micro electric vehicle that is surging in a
major way, is the electric bike. But I believe that NEVs should also become
a major part of the mix.

On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 8:07 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV 
wrote:


There are only two ways out of my neighborhood.  The short way is on a
highway with a 55mph speed limit.  The long way (adds 6 miles) has a posted
speed limit of 45.
So technically NEVs would not be a legal way to get to town.  On the other
hand, I doubt anyone else around here ( including the cops) realize that,
so you could probably get away with it.

On the other hand, every used NEV I've seen for sale costs as much or more
than a used EV, so I've never serious considered buying one.

My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key

May 22, 2021 5:05 PM, "Peri Hartman via EV"  wrote:


Depends on your needs. I bicycle. My wife could use a small NEV, not a

moped. She needs protection

from weather and a place to put groceries, etc. And additional safety.

We live in a place with

mostly 20 and 25mph streets for miles in every direction.
Peri


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Re: [EVDL] battery heaters

2021-02-22 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

The CALB batteries I had were definitely NOT happy if I tried charging 
them below 40F. Fortunately, living in San Diego at the time, that was 
not a worry.  Now that I live further north, I do have to worry (or at 
least once I get a new EV hobby build).  You are right in that you need 
to check the manual for the batteries.


Cheers, Peter

On 2/22/21 5:56 PM, Collin Kidder via EV wrote:

It heavily depends on the electrolyte / cell chemistry. I have
batteries from a Think City (made by EnerDel) and they are spec'd to
operate down to an extremely low temperature of -20C. That's -4F. I
don't think I'd charge them very hard at 0F but it seems that's in the
temperature range to be able to do so. I know that the pack has no
heater in it from the factory and people drive the things up here in
Michigan. The Think factory was in Indiana. If charging the cars in
winter was a problem we'd probably know it.


On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:48 PM nathan christiansn via EV
 wrote:

Hi all,

I live in northern utah, and it can get fairly cold here in the
winter(close to 20 fahrenheit in the night)

I am using nissan leaf batteries in my Geo Metro EV conversion. The leaf
batteries, as with most other lithium batteries, is not supposed to be
charged below 32 degrees fahrenheit.

I am worried that I will not be able to charge my EV during the winter
because of the cold outside temperatures. I also do not currently have
access to a heated garage.

I am considering adding a battery heater. I was thinking of attaching one
of those silicone heating pads that are used as ICE block heaters to
the bottom of my 2 steel battery boxes, but I was wondering if anyone had
any better ideas?

Nathan
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Re: [EVDL] battery heaters

2021-02-22 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

In addition to water bed heaters, check out the solid material plant 
heaters.


Another possibility is the Farnham silicon rubber heaters:
https://farnam-custom.com/custom/silicone-rubber-heaters?gclid=CjwKCAiAyc2BBhAaEiwA44-wW3g97mUaxRnzV1dviqMC0VTzI_2gHVKlrztQheItKcRWvAh9dTr50RoCOZUQAvD_BwE

Regardless of what you choose to use, be sure that the product is solid, 
can handle lots of vibration, and fails gracefully.


Best of luck!

On 2/22/21 4:47 PM, Thos True via EV wrote:

Hi Nathan,

Back in the days of lead-acid, we used water bed heaters under the
batteries to get them to an optimal temp for charging and discharging
(about 100 degrees F). I'm thinking that you are looking to keep your pack
more in the area of 50 degrees, but I expect that the same method would
work for you.

-Tom

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 4:27 PM nathan christiansn via EV 
wrote:


Hi all,

I live in northern utah, and it can get fairly cold here in the
winter(close to 20 fahrenheit in the night)

I am using nissan leaf batteries in my Geo Metro EV conversion. The leaf
batteries, as with most other lithium batteries, is not supposed to be
charged below 32 degrees fahrenheit.

I am worried that I will not be able to charge my EV during the winter
because of the cold outside temperatures. I also do not currently have
access to a heated garage.

I am considering adding a battery heater. I was thinking of attaching one
of those silicone heating pads that are used as ICE block heaters to
the bottom of my 2 steel battery boxes, but I was wondering if anyone had
any better ideas?

Nathan
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf 12 v battery.

2020-12-15 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

The issue is most likely that the 12v battery only charges when the 
vehicle is running - not when the vehicle is charging the main battery.  
This is why you will find reports of EVSE "damaging" the 12V battery.


Of course, I am welcome to be corrected.  :)

Cheers, Peter

On 12/15/20 6:12 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:



On 12/15/20 12:59 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Jay Summet via EV wrote:
Our Leaf's OEM 12v battery was dead after 4 yearsI replaced it 
with an AGM, hopefully that one will last longer.


Our 2013 Leaf is still running on its original 12v battery. So far, 
so good... Of course, starting the Leaf is pretty easy on the 
battery, even in Minnesota winters. :-)


I've read a lot of posts on the Nissan Leaf forums about people having 
issues with the accessory battery giving out after only 3-5 years.


Symptoms usually include random error codes being thrown by the 
computer and "weird" behavior on startup due to the low voltage sag.


Our 2015 had blue crystals coming out around the battery post.

https://www.summet.com/blog/2019/05/03/nissan-leaf-12-volt-accessory-battery-replacement/ 



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 'All's not well with UK public charging' / Autonomy

2020-12-04 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Volvo has been working on this, in conjunction with the Swedish government:

https://www.volvogroup.com/en-en/news/2018/sep/volvo-plans-to-build-electric-roads.html

I've also seen a demonstration of wireless power embedded in a road:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/qualcomms-inductive-charging-road-could-change-the-way-we-build-evs/

Cheers, Peter

On 12/3/20 10:42 PM, Glenn Brooks via EV wrote:

There are actually three forms of resistance commonly associated with rail
transport: 1) train resistance - the loaded weight of the consist and
locomotive; 2) grade and curvature resistance imparted by friction between the
rails and wheels, and 3) vehicle speed. These three factors establish the
tractive effort that your powered unit needs to overcome to pull goods along a
rail.

On the positive side, steel rails have a very low coefficient of friction, so
easily can move many hundreds, if not thousands of tons of deadweight, compared
to wheeled vehicles operating on asphalt. On the negative side, grades over 2%
create very high rolling resistance. So most highway grades won’t accommodate
rail transport - unless the wheels are individually powered, and hydraulically
grip the rail from sides and top.

So lots to consider with rail transport methods

Glenn
Sent from my iPad

On Dec 3, 2020, at 8:14 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

The gravitational energy you put into a vehicle climbing a hill, comes back
to you on the downhill side. The effect of weight is often overestimated
for this reason. Battery power is very efficient, in terms of how much you
put in, is close to what you get out, unlike with fossil fuels which are
inordinately wasteful. Not to mention the general filthy nature of it.

For some years now solar production is less costly than fossil fuel
production. It just takes a long time for existing production to wear out
and be retired. The sunk costs of building refineries is enormous and solar
needs its basic infrastructure to be constructed up front. Real estate,
substations, transmission and distribution lines, point of sale apparatus,
and so on. These are what make adoption of renewables slow. However, new
construction of solar and wind are less costly than new construction of
fossil fuel based energy means.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:55 PM Peri Hartman via EV
wrote:

If nearly all the savings is from reducing wind resistance, by drafting,
then the rails aren't really needed. We could build more expensive
infrastructure, but a cheaper solution is often better. In other words,
the focus should be on making drafting possible, not reducing rolling
resistance.

On wikipedia, one estimate for Teslas semi battery is 11800 kg, or more
than 20 tons. So, yes, a lot of weight. So, non battery power could
help. But it doesn't have to be rails. Centenaries would be much less
expensive to construct. Still, my guess is the long term cheapest
solution is the large battery. Over time, they will get cheaper and
lighter.

Big Snip

--
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824 Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Re: [EVDL] Blink network still good

2020-11-16 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Cal,

First off, I'm biased - I work for ChargePoint.  So what I can say is, 
that before my current position, I worked for Qualcomm in San Diego.  
There were a TON of Blink chargers, and they were very rarely working.  
We used to joke about them "being on the blink, again".


I'd dig around some more and see what you can find.

Cheers, Peter

On 11/16/20 9:38 AM, Cal Frye via EV wrote:

Hey, folks,
Been a while since I had a couple moments to check in. Please forgive 
me if this has been answered recently--my search turned up nothing 
since 2017.


We're looking to install a two-station charger at a non-profit org, 
and Blink has some pretty good pricing. But there is little on their 
network in our area, and news reports are, well, mixed. Would it be 
advisable to go forward with Blink? Our likely alternatives are 
SemaConnect or perhaps JuiceBar.


Many thanks!

Best regards,
-- Cal Frye,
/Be an Internet Sceptic/  Stop. Think. Connect.
www.stopthinkconnect.org - Be at least as safe on the
Internet as you are crossing the street!

"A closed mind is like a closed book, just a block of wood. --Chinese 
proverb.

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Re: [EVDL] Design News: General Motors Slashes Battery Wiring by 90 Percent

2020-09-24 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Only way to find out is to sign an NDA with Analog Devices.

*OR* buy some and see.

I'm sure some white-hats will check this out. :)

Cheers, Peter

On 9/24/20 5:38 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

How much extra energy does it require? 1%? 10%? 0.01%?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Sep 24, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:

Sheesh, nothing like over-hyping. They conveniently don't mention any downside
like extra energy needed for the wireless communication or possible
interference to said communication.

On 9/24/2020 9:49 AM, moskowitz via EV wrote:
https://www.designnews.com/automotive-engineering/general-motors-slashes-battery-wiring-90-percent

---

General Motors Slashes Battery Wiring by 90 Percent

[Dan Carney](https://www.designnews.com/author/Dan-Carney)| Sep 10, 2020

As[General Motors
Co](https://www.designnews.com/electronics-test/general-motors-sees-future-zero-crashes-zero-emissions-zero-congestion).
gets closer to the[production launch of electric
vehicles](https://www.designnews.com/automotive-engineering/cadillac-lyriq-reveals-new-details-gms-ultium-battery-technology)employing
the company’s[next-generation Ultium
batteries](https://www.designnews.com/automotive-engineering/cadillac-lyriq-reveals-new-details-gms-ultium-battery-technology),
it is revealing additional technical details about these upcoming batteries.

The latest revelation is GM’s partnership with Analog Devices, Inc., to
incorporate a wireless battery management system into the Ultium battery packs.
This solution not only eliminates 90 percent of the wiring in the packs, it
also provides for increased efficiency and flexibility of those packs.

Additionally, because eliminating wires in packs leaves more space inside for
additional cells, it can create additional driving range. An important factor
is that not only does the wiring occupy space, but its installation and
connection is a manual process, and there has to be space provided for workers
to do the installation, pointed out Analog Devices technical director for
automotive, Gina Aquilano. “Thereis manual assembly where you have to leave
room for someone to go in and make the connections,” she said.

The ability to install additional cells in the same size battery pack is an
example of “a tangible outcome for the end-user,” of the use of wireless
management technology, Aquilano continued.

Range also benefits because the wireless management system can better optimize
the usage of individual cells, which also increases driving range. “Your pack
is only as good as your weakest battery,” she observed. “This allows testing
cells in more of an automated way for better matching.”

This monitoring is done by more accurate sensors, which not only aids in
managing Ultium’s Nickel-Cobalt-Manganese-Aluminum cells but will provide the
precision necessary for the future, even more, finicky chemistries such as
lithium iron phosphate, Aquilano added. “Having the sensors you need for more
sustainable battery chemistries is important,” she said.

As GM has described previously, having the intelligence built into each pack
means that not only can future chemistries be managed using this same
technology, but that those future packs will be backward compatible with
today’s technology. That will let Ultium-powered EVs swap in more advanced
batteries later if they need a battery replacement at some time in their lives.

This modularity lets the packs be connected in series or parallel, in whatever
number the application requires, from six to twenty-four packs, explained GM’s
director for global battery cells and electrification, Tim Grewe. “That’s what
this wireless tech enables,” he said. “You can do any voltage or parallel
combination you want to do. There is no practical limitation on how many you
can put in series or parallel.”

The elimination of wiring from the management circuitry has another advantage:
it isn’t subject to wiring failures. “One of the huge benefits is the fault
management,” Grew explained. “On wired systems, a hard short is a big problem.
A wireless system will reconfigure so it gets information from the unaffected
nodes in the pack.”

But doesn’t wired communication provide resistance to electromagnetic
interference? “There’s a lot of [electromagnetic] noise out there,” Grewe
acknowledged. “It jumps over to a frequency that doesn’t have the noise.”

When Analog Devices proposed its wireless technology as a potential solution
for GM, “we were very inquisitive about those same questions,” he recalled.
“The nature of it is that you can switch frequencies,” Grewe said. “It provides
avoidance capabilities that were surprising to me. It will just jump to a
channel where the interference doesn’t exist.”

Just as importantly, the system documents its adjustments, providing engineers
a better understanding of the system’s performance. “It also gives you the
reports along the way to say

[EVDL] Electrify America closes all stations along I-95

2020-09-08 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Folks,

This was on youtube and other sources: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSzubgShq-M


Bad timing on their part to close it down during the Labor Day weekend IMHO.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] Diesel Brothers fined for removing emissions devices on trucks.

2020-06-02 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Wow, you are a brave man swimming in that (cess)pool. :)

Thank you for doing that!

Cheers, Peter

On 6/2/20 12:05 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

  A large fine that can't be removed by bankruptcy and further civil action 
against mechanics that modify trucks. 
https://www.thedrive.com/news/32533/diesel-brothers-hit-with-85-fine-for-tampering-with-truck-emissions
 Lawrence Rhodes


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Re: [EVDL] Communicating over "mains" (Was: Minibms?)

2020-04-30 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 4/29/20 6:46 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

- Is it a safety system, there to prevent damage and fires?
    (battery SAFETY system)

Doesn't matter. It can still be handled by a poll from a master.


For this to work, both the master and all the slaves have to be 
working. No failures. In a bus system (USB, CANbus, etc.) any failed 
device takes out the entire system.
Actually not correct.  CAN BUS works if a unit fails - UNLESS that unit 
is blasting data on the bus.


In any case, if the bus fails, then system must stop.



In regard to your three example flavors, it seems that for a robust BMS
each individual cell monitor must do all three.


Yes. Most likely, there will be separate circuits for each, so one 
failure doesn't take them all out.
Redundancy is a nice-to-have feature, but overkill for this purpose. If 
you have a major failure that takes out the bus, then it is common sense 
to stop the system.



I'm out of my domain here, but can't balancing be handled by checking
cell voltage?


Measuring cell voltage only tells you that there might be a problem. 
It doesn't correct the problem, or even tell you what to do about it.


The fashionable way to balance is by switching a resistor (or some 
equivalent) across the cells if they get high while charging. There 
are issues with this, but it's generally the cheap way to do it. This 
is the "balancing" part of the three. Common failures here are a) the 
load didn't switch on when it should have, b) it didn't turn off when 
it should have, c) the charger didn't cut back, so it overwhelms the 
resistor and the cell overcharges anyway, d) the cells are too far out 
of balance for a small resistor to correct, e) insuring that the 
resistors aren't overheating due to excessive on-time.
Top-balancing works, but only if the cells were close to SoC in the 
first place.


Where measuring cell voltage is useful is doing long-term analysis - and 
this is done by a human (typically), using stored data over months of 
collection. This is how you would determine that a cell is dying - 
before it becomes a problem.



What needs to be done for safety?


The safety circuits need to detect these failures, stop the charger 
(and driving, if regen could occur), and alter the driver that there's 
a problem that must be fixed.


Besides these, it needs to watch for other failure modes. Things like 
excessively high or low cell temperatures, excessively high or low 
voltages, loose terminals (such as by high terminal temperatures), and 
ground faults.


The safety circuits also need to be fail-safe. If something goes wrong 
with them, they *shut down* the vehicle rather than let you keep 
driving it unprotected.


Lee Hart

Completely agree with you, Lee.

I used the Elithion system for my first iteration of CALB battery pack.  
I LOVED the data gathering aspect, but HATED the communication failures 
that were all too common.
I then switched to the miniBMS, and it covered all of my needs - EXCEPT 
for data gathering.


Both systems covered the safety aspects, just had different approaches 
to how communication needed to work.

Elithion - RS232, miniBMS - open a circuit in case of trouble.

If we are to create a new system, we could definitely provide the data 
monitoring as well as safety monitoring - as long as we are using a 
robust communication transport.  For me, that's either CAN BUS or 
100BaseT1.  Both are well proven in automotive environments.


Cheers, Peter

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Re: [EVDL] Minibms?

2020-04-28 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

PLC is one of my least preferred communications transports. Maybe
because it's a huge percentage of failures when charging, maybe because
there aren't that many vendors (for EVSE, it is dominated by a very
large chipmaker in San Diego).

Since this is going to be in an EV, I would prefer to use 100BaseT1, as
that is the current design win for EVs. Yeah, totally overkill as far
as bandwidth goes, but almost totally immune to noise - even without
shielding. CAN BUS requires some shielding, and has other limits.

BMS is used during three phases: charging, discharging, and storage
(keeping track of SoC, temperature, resistance). When the environment is
really noisy (think full power), you will REALLY need to make sure you
aren't draining your batteries too much.

Cheers, Peter

On 4/28/20 2:35 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV wrote:

Because there are no "mains" in a vehicle.???

Is it really "That" Noisy? I suspect it is very doable, it's just that no one
has done it yet.The trick is probably using signal processing to get rid of the noise and
doing extremelylow bit rates, which is fine for a BMS. Ham radio guys can send stuff
over the entire earthon 10 watts using techniques like jt65. I expect they can deal
with a little noise. it's justnot going to be trivial, but it would be doable.

IMHO the main use for the BMS is in charging anyway.

On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 2:12:26 PM PDT, Lee Hart
wrote:

Lawrence Winiarski wrote:

Anyone know anything about data over powerlines? Why can't the BMS
communicate over the mains?

Because there are no "mains" in a vehicle.

That said, it is possible to communicate via the DC power cables already
connected to each cell. But this is an extremely noisy environment. It
would require substantial filtering and protection to keep driving
currents from trashing data transfers. Some chargers are also extremely
noisy, and could block data transfers while charging.

Lee

Re: [EVDL] Minibms?

2020-04-28 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Wow, that is a very impressive open-source project!

Only complaint I would make is that it uses wireless communication - 
using CAN BUS or 100BaseT1 would be better - especially when you are 
putting blocks into different parts of the EV.  For example, in my 914, 
I had 3 separate compartments for my batteries.

Is there interest in taking this design and porting it to large format 
batteries?  That's what I was getting from the discussion of the 
miniBMS, in any case.

I'm definitely interested in helping with this project - I'm really good 
at programming, not so good at electronics.  :)

Cheers, Peter

On 4/28/20 9:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
To follow up a bit, I have had several email exchanges with Tim. He 
has an amazing product which is open source and also available on 
ebay. I'm still working out my requirements. It seems every time I'm 
"done" the next time I look at my calcs I find a problem :) Plus, 
there are many options on what voltage or current to pick, in order to 
keep the price down for various components.

Anyway, I think I'm likely to buy a few of his blocks and BMS boards. 
Not sure about the central board yet, might integrate that with software.

His blocks are configurable so that you can have groups of parallel 
cells within each block (I think this is true) rather than the whole 
block as a series of individual cells.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Mr. Sharkey via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Mr. Sharkey" 
Sent: 28-Apr-20 8:21:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Minibms?

A couple of weeks back, there was an ongoing discussion about 
building a custom battery that Peri was designing. An offshoot post 
from that by Tim Economu offered an open source BMS/cell module 
assembly project that he had worked up:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/custom-battery-DKblock-td4696973.html 
(pointing to the Nabble archive)

https://github.com/offgridsystems (github resource repository)

I was surprised that this received no replies, as it looked like an 
interesting project. I had a look at the source code for the "Block 
Manager" (cell level monitor), and although it had features that 
wouldn't necessarily apply to a simple management system, all of the 
programming that would be needed was there and well written. It would 
likely be a matter of removing unneeded code for features that 
weren't going to be employed (thermal management for example), as 
well as adjusting voltage setpoints for your particular cell chemistry.

Tim Economu's qualifications and background are impeccable, you 
couldn't ask for a better collaborator on a project like this.

All of the components to replicate a v.2 or v.3 MiniBMS knock-off are 
available in through-the-hole packages. The parts count is low enough 
that they would still be fairly compact when completed.

> Even the v3 boards are not terribly complicated from a circuit
> standpoint.  And I feel confident that the firmware they run could be
> replicated. I could easily see creating an open source PCB and 
firmware

> again.

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Re: [EVDL] (no ice= clean air) % Happy Earth Day %> Consider An EV

2020-04-25 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Peri,

Astute observation!  There are at least 3 companies bidding with various 
ports to electrify their tugs. Even the drivers like these new vehicles 
- they have aircon and stereos!  :)


Cheers, Peter

On 4/24/20 7:46 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
One thing I've noticed is that Seattle's smog has mostly disappeared. 
However, over our industrial area, between the shipping terminals and 
the railyards, there's a very noticeable brown cloud. While admittedly 
this is a subjective deduction, this shows that the diesel tractors 
which make thousands of trips a day between these two close points are 
contributing a lot of particulate and other emissions.


Need to get them to switch to electric !

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "evln via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "evln" 
Sent: 24-Apr-20 5:30:54 PM
Subject: [EVDL] (no ice= clean air) % Happy Earth Day %> Consider An EV




[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Happy-Earth-Day-You-Should-Still-Consider-An-EV-tp4697081.html 


%Happy Earth Day%> You Should Still Consider An EV
]

(clean air topic related)
https://www.google.com/search?q=air+quality+improves

KEYC
Air quality improves amid world-wide lockdown. Reports show massive 
declines

in greenhouse gas emissions in major cities as human activity haults
globally. Air ...
24 mins ago

Upworthy
Air pollution in major cities has dropped by as much as
60 ...
Improved visibility is a wonderful gift but what's more important is a
reduction in what we usually don't see in the air: atmospheric 
particulate

matter or PM2.5.
1 hour ago

dbusiness.com
Air Quality Report: Michigan's Smog Gets Worse, Soot
Level ...
Air Quality Report: Michigan's Smog Gets Worse, Soot Level Improves.
Michigan has generally worse results for ozone pollution but has seen
improvements for ...
5 hours ago

Earth.com
India's air quality improves as lockdown continues
Cities across India have seen air pollution levels fall by as much as 50
percent following the enforcement of strict COVID-19 quarantine 
measures. On

March 25, ...
7 hours ago

Daily Mail
Iceland's ...
Improved air quality: unforeseen benefits to coronavirus. Lockdown 
measures

affecting the travel industry and traffic has been shown to have had a
positive impact ...
7 hours ago

Energy Live News - Energy Made Easy
York's air quality improves by 30% during coronavirus
lockdown
That's according to leading air quality expert Dr David Carslaw, who
analysed data collected by City of York Council – he found some areas 
saw a

reduction in ...
9 hours ago

Richmondshire Today
Air quality in Richmondshire improves because of
pandemic
Air quality in Richmondshire has improved due to the coronavirus 
pandemic.

The levels of nitrogen oxide – an air pollutant that reflects traffic
conditions ...
14 hours ago

INQUIRER.net
Air quality improves in Metro Cebu during ECQ
CEBU CITY, Philippines – Amidst the implementation of the Enhanced 
Community
Quarantine (ECQ), the air quality in Metro Cebu area has improved 
based on

...
14 hours ago

Minster FM
News - CORONAVIRUS - Air quality improves in North
Yorkshire
One of the UK's leading experts in air quality, Dr David Carslaw, who 
has
over 20 years' experience in air pollution science, and lives in 
York, has

analysed data ...
14 hours ago

Daily Mail
London's air quality improves dramatically under
coronavirus ...
London's air quality improves dramatically under coronavirus lockdown as
fewer cars on roads trigger a 50% drop in pollution levels. By James 
Gant

For ...
15 hours ago

Bay Area Headlines: Thursday, 4/23/20, AM
Air quality has improved across California because of the pandemic. 
But a
new report shows climate change played a major factor in pollution in 
past

years.
1 day ago

CNBC
Photos show impact of temporary air pollution drops
across ...
Air quality improves in Manila. Herman Lumanog | Pacific Press | 
LightRocket

via Getty Images. In ...
1 day ago

OnCubaNews (press release) (blog)
On Earth Day Coronavirus, a pollution hiccup?
As air quality improves, we are less vulnerable to this pandemic and to
other diseases. With this temporary lifestyle, we have seen a drastic
pollution drop in ...
1 day ago

Mongabay.com
Manila gets its skyline back as air quality improves
amid ...
Manila's lockdown, a response to the COVID-19 pandemic, is easing the
Philippine capital's notorious air pollution levels. Air pollution 
has been

a perennial ...
1 day ago

Myjoyonline.com
Air pollution over Accra and Kumasi improves during
Covid-19 ...
Air pollution over Accra and Kumasi improves during Covid-19 lockdown.
Source: Dr Gift Dumedah, Dr Samuel Ato Arkoful Andam and Prof Ing. 
Charles

Anum ...
1 day ago

Silver linings: China air improves after coronavirus
lockdowns ...
"The fall in air pollution in the first quarter of course means that air
quality targets for the winter period were met comfortably, and 
meeting the

targets for 2020 will ...
2 days ago

Yahoo News
Philly Air

Re: [EVDL] GM,Ford’s 5%-EV-production-plans are a bad-joke on u.s.

2020-03-26 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

My step-dad sold Chevy's and Honda's (way back when I was a kid). He was 
one of the first in California to sell Honda's. Saved his business.


However, what kept his business open and running, day-in and day-out was 
the shop. People might not buy a new car, but they sure will need to get 
it repaired.


Once the EV becomes mainstream, that source of daily cash is going to 
serious dwindle.  THAT, I believe, is one of the big stumbling blocks 
facing the big OEMs.


Cheers, Peter

On 3/26/20 1:06 PM, Mike C via EV wrote:

Personal opinion only:  It looks to me like GM and Ford know how to build 
electric cars, they just don’t seem to have any idea how to sell them.  As long 
as they only see EVs as a threat to existing ICE auto sales, they won’t bother 
to properly market them.  For the most part, dealers pretty much don’t seem to 
want them around at all.  Automakers build cars the dealers want, then the 
dealers sell them to the public.  Tesla works without this “filter”.  
Unfortunately, dealer agreements probably mean GM and Ford can’t do this.

Mike Chancey
evalbum.com


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: evln via EV
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 2:42 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: evln
Subject: [EVDL] GM,Ford’s 5%-EV-production-plans are a bad-joke on u.s.



[related
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Legacy-auto-makers-talk-the-talk-but-tp4696813.html
]

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gm-ford-ev-production-plans-leaked/
GM and Ford’s EV production plans for the US have leaked, and they are a
joke
March 26, 2020 ... despite the grand gestures and proclamations of an
electric car-centric future from American automakers General Motors and
Ford, the two companies’ actual production plans for North America are still
centered on large, internal combustion-powered vehicles ... have been
insisting that they are all-in on an electric car push ... 5% of Ford and
GM’s combined vehicle production in North America, and less than Tesla’s
output in 2019 from its one factory in Fremont, CA ...


  (fox-n-friends are anti-EV source, friendly w/ the frik-n-frack fed
beavis against EVs,  to koch fo$$il,  on the saudi
profit$)
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-gm-electric-vehicles-sales
Ford and GM won't be selling many electric vehicles soon ...
2020-03-26 ... automakers would love to get a little of that Tesla magic and
money ... trying to play to Wall Street, which thinks the future is all
about electric vehicles ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
  http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)

2020-03-18 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Willie,

When I was studying the battery technology about 10 years ago, the 
assumption was that fast DC charging would only go up to 80% SoC. Above 
that, you had to reduce power going into the battery significantly in 
order to avoid damage. Having talked to several power engineers at my 
current company, this has not changed.  If you watch your power 
consumption over time, you'll be able to see this ramping.  Oh, 
something else Tesla does is use air conditioning to keep the batteries 
cool.  Lots of times I'll walk past a row of charging Teslas and hear 
their aircon running.


Tesla does appear to understand their technology, and takes good care to 
keep it working.  Can't say the same for other manufacturers...although 
I'd be very happy to be corrected.


Cheers, Peter


On 3/17/20 4:43 PM, Willie via EV wrote:



On 3/17/20 6:28 PM, Neal, Gary via EV wrote:
I've thought about this while supercharging my Tesla.  There are 
situations where I would be ok using a supercharger a little slower 
than full bore with the goal of reducing battery damage.  For 
example, if we wanted to have a leisurely meal while charging.  I 
know that occupies a supercharger longer, but it also doesn't damage 
the battery as much.  Right now, there doesn't seem to be a method to 
reduce Tesla supercharging speed, right?


You can slow the battery charge a bit by running your climate. Open 
windows and run heat full on.  It's not worth the trouble. With 
Teslas, SuperCharging is just not a significant issue.  Tesla has said 
so and those Tesloop cars went hundreds of thousands of miles charging 
nearly solely on SuperChargers.


It seems Tesla does a good job of preserving the batteries in the face 
of what might be termed "abuse".  Though I use SuperChargers only on 
trips.  My 2013 S has 133k miles and has seen a steady decline of 
SuperCharge power.  Down from ~120kw to around 80kw now.  My 2018 3 
with only 30+k miles still charges at up to 140kw where available; 
I've never encountered a working 250kw SuperCharger, only 120kw and 
150kw.  Neither car has alarming capacity reduction.


I work on the assumption that battery damage is proportional to the 
time spent at 100% charge level.  When I feel I might need a 100% 
charge, I top off within an hour of departure.  I have seen people set 
up a 100% charge the night before departure, leaving the car at 100% 
for as long as ~8 hours.


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Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)

2020-03-17 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I just tried this link: 
https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/03/11/fast-charging-damages-electric-car-batteries


Seems to work for me.

On 3/17/20 10:03 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:

The article is now linking to "Page Not Found".


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:52 PM Peter C. Thompson via EV
 wrote:

Hi Peri,

I don't have personal experience with Tesla, but I do with other OEMs.
It is very safe to say that the BMS is preventing just that sort of
problem.

When I read the article, it was about testing to destruction, not about
how to do safe, long-term charging.  Yeah, FUD again.

I agree that reading history NOW is much more enjoyable, probably
because we aren't reading those "sanitized" history books from high
school. :)

Cheers!

On 3/17/20 9:36 AM, Peri Hartman wrote:

Thanks ! So, is it reasonably safe to say, especially with Tesla, that
the BMS is preventing the kind of excess rapid charging demonstrated
in the article ? It seems preposterous that significant damage is
occurring to EV batteries. (I know it will cause slow, long term
damage.) In which case, the article is intended to scare people and,
perhaps, funded by you know who. I looked at the article again, but
there's nothing ominous in the funding list.

Insomnia: I laugh. When I was in high school, if I had insomnia
(rarely), I remember I simply opened my history book and was asleep in
a few minutes. (I really enjoy history, now, by the way.)

Peri

-- Original Message ------
From: "Peter C. Thompson via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Peter C. Thompson" 
Sent: 17-Mar-20 8:51:08 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)


Ah, finally, an area where I am an expert. :)

The communication is defined in ISO 15118-2, the transport layers are
in 15118-3 (PLC) and 15118-8 (wifi). No one is using the wifi version
for DC - only for wireless power.

However, nowhere in the spec does the battery temp get sent. There is
a warning when the battery is over temp, but that's about it.
Most of the time, the job of protecting the battery is the BMS. The
BMS tells the EV-side charger how much power it can accept, and when
to throttle power.

Part of this is that the OEMs think that any info about the battery
is confidential information.  Which is why SoC is optional, and not
always sent to the charger.

And yes, you are absolutely correct, Peri:  you DON'T want to read
these specs... they are a very good cure for insomnia.

Cheers, Peter

On 3/17/20 7:05 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Do you know more, yourself ? I don't really want to study the spec :)
Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" 
Sent: 17-Mar-20 4:52:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or
anti-EV-hype?)


DC fast chargers use HCL defined in ISO 15118-8 Specification.

Volume eight is the physical and data link layer

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 16, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Peri Hartman via EV
 wrote:

I thought the level 3 chargers took into account cell temperature
and other conditions. I know, for example, that my almost 10 year
old Leaf battery charges at only about 10kw now. Something is
communicating.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "evln via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "evln" 
Sent: 16-Mar-20 12:57:21 PM
Subject: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)



https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/03/11/fast-charging-damages-electric-car-batteries

Fast-charging damages electric car batteries
Commercial fast-charging stations subject electric car batteries
to high
temperatures and high resistance that can cause them to crack,
leak, and
lose their ...
https://news.ucr.edu/sites/g/files/rcwecm1816/files/styles/news_article_featured_l/public/2020-03/broken%20Tesla%20battery.jpg



+
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-03/southern-california-ev-jobs

The electric-vehicle industry is thriving in Southern California,
report
says
2020-03-03  California is already a world leader in the embryonic
electric
vehicle industry but needs more government help to flourish,
according to a
new report from the Los ...
https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/b3308bf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1152+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F0f%2F14%2F66195340cd40e6cdeb681fd96501%2Fla-1497909600-8tndt61ti7-snap-image






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Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)

2020-03-17 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Peri,

I don't have personal experience with Tesla, but I do with other OEMs. 
It is very safe to say that the BMS is preventing just that sort of 
problem.


When I read the article, it was about testing to destruction, not about 
how to do safe, long-term charging.  Yeah, FUD again.


I agree that reading history NOW is much more enjoyable, probably 
because we aren't reading those "sanitized" history books from high 
school. :)


Cheers!

On 3/17/20 9:36 AM, Peri Hartman wrote:
Thanks ! So, is it reasonably safe to say, especially with Tesla, that 
the BMS is preventing the kind of excess rapid charging demonstrated 
in the article ? It seems preposterous that significant damage is 
occurring to EV batteries. (I know it will cause slow, long term 
damage.) In which case, the article is intended to scare people and, 
perhaps, funded by you know who. I looked at the article again, but 
there's nothing ominous in the funding list.


Insomnia: I laugh. When I was in high school, if I had insomnia 
(rarely), I remember I simply opened my history book and was asleep in 
a few minutes. (I really enjoy history, now, by the way.)


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Peter C. Thompson via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Peter C. Thompson" 
Sent: 17-Mar-20 8:51:08 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)


Ah, finally, an area where I am an expert. :)

The communication is defined in ISO 15118-2, the transport layers are 
in 15118-3 (PLC) and 15118-8 (wifi). No one is using the wifi version 
for DC - only for wireless power.


However, nowhere in the spec does the battery temp get sent. There is 
a warning when the battery is over temp, but that's about it.
Most of the time, the job of protecting the battery is the BMS. The 
BMS tells the EV-side charger how much power it can accept, and when 
to throttle power.


Part of this is that the OEMs think that any info about the battery 
is confidential information.  Which is why SoC is optional, and not 
always sent to the charger.


And yes, you are absolutely correct, Peri:  you DON'T want to read 
these specs... they are a very good cure for insomnia.


Cheers, Peter

On 3/17/20 7:05 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Do you know more, yourself ? I don't really want to study the spec :)
Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 17-Mar-20 4:52:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or 
anti-EV-hype?)



DC fast chargers use HCL defined in ISO 15118-8 Specification.

Volume eight is the physical and data link layer

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:


I thought the level 3 chargers took into account cell temperature 
and other conditions. I know, for example, that my almost 10 year 
old Leaf battery charges at only about 10kw now. Something is 
communicating.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "evln via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "evln" 
Sent: 16-Mar-20 12:57:21 PM
Subject: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)




https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/03/11/fast-charging-damages-electric-car-batteries 


Fast-charging damages electric car batteries
Commercial fast-charging stations subject electric car batteries 
to high
temperatures and high resistance that can cause them to crack, 
leak, and

lose their ...
https://news.ucr.edu/sites/g/files/rcwecm1816/files/styles/news_article_featured_l/public/2020-03/broken%20Tesla%20battery.jpg 




+
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-03/southern-california-ev-jobs 

The electric-vehicle industry is thriving in Southern California, 
report

says
2020-03-03  California is already a world leader in the embryonic 
electric
vehicle industry but needs more government help to flourish, 
according to a

new report from the Los ...
https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/b3308bf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1152+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F0f%2F14%2F66195340cd40e6cdeb681fd96501%2Fla-1497909600-8tndt61ti7-snap-image 










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Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)

2020-03-17 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Ah, finally, an area where I am an expert. :)

The communication is defined in ISO 15118-2, the transport layers are in 
15118-3 (PLC) and 15118-8 (wifi). No one is using the wifi version for 
DC - only for wireless power.


However, nowhere in the spec does the battery temp get sent. There is a 
warning when the battery is over temp, but that's about it.
Most of the time, the job of protecting the battery is the BMS. The BMS 
tells the EV-side charger how much power it can accept, and when to 
throttle power.


Part of this is that the OEMs think that any info about the battery is 
confidential information.  Which is why SoC is optional, and not always 
sent to the charger.


And yes, you are absolutely correct, Peri:  you DON'T want to read these 
specs... they are a very good cure for insomnia.


Cheers, Peter

On 3/17/20 7:05 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Do you know more, yourself ? I don't really want to study the spec :)
Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 17-Mar-20 4:52:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)


DC fast chargers use HCL defined in ISO 15118-8 Specification.

Volume eight is the physical and data link layer

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:


I thought the level 3 chargers took into account cell temperature 
and other conditions. I know, for example, that my almost 10 year 
old Leaf battery charges at only about 10kw now. Something is 
communicating.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "evln via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "evln" 
Sent: 16-Mar-20 12:57:21 PM
Subject: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)




https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/03/11/fast-charging-damages-electric-car-batteries 


Fast-charging damages electric car batteries
Commercial fast-charging stations subject electric car batteries to 
high
temperatures and high resistance that can cause them to crack, 
leak, and

lose their ...
https://news.ucr.edu/sites/g/files/rcwecm1816/files/styles/news_article_featured_l/public/2020-03/broken%20Tesla%20battery.jpg 




+
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-03/southern-california-ev-jobs 

The electric-vehicle industry is thriving in Southern California, 
report

says
2020-03-03  California is already a world leader in the embryonic 
electric
vehicle industry but needs more government help to flourish, 
according to a

new report from the Los ...
https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/b3308bf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1152+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F0f%2F14%2F66195340cd40e6cdeb681fd96501%2Fla-1497909600-8tndt61ti7-snap-image 






For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
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https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


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Re: [EVDL] Low power chademo charger

2020-03-09 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Yikes!  $4,000!  Yeah, I'd call that expensive.  Especially considering 
the Powerwall is between $4k and $7k (depending on capacity).


I'm just not comfortable with utilities using my car batter for grid 
stabilization. My car has a limited lifetime battery, and they better 
pay me for the replacement cost of using my battery - plus a bit extra.


Let's face it, an EV battery is a rather pricey battery, with some 
delicate charging capabilities.
The powerwall (or equivalent) is less pricey, gives you more capacity, 
and is more forgiving of recharging.  At least that's my take from my 
research.  YMMV.


Cheers, Peter

On 3/9/20 1:48 PM, jkenny23 via EV wrote:

There was actually a recent product announcement that was basically this:
https://electrek.co/2020/01/06/wallbox-quasar-tesla-nissan/

It's pretty expensive, but if you consider it as an alternative to Tesla
Powerwall (or other competitive devices) it's a fairly good deal.

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Re: [EVDL] Low power chademo charger

2020-03-09 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Jay,

One of the big issues with this sort of product is that you end up under 
a large list of requirements - all with the express purpose of not 
destabilizing the grid. The cost of conformance is definitely 
non-trivial. :)


I know that there are CHAdeMO chargers that handle the reverse power 
flow, but mostly in Japan.


Cheers, Peter

On 3/9/20 8:23 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
This is currently kind of a niche product that is really only useful 
for vehicles with a bad on-board charger, or a slow (3.3 kW) one).


I think the big win for this product would be to make it 
bi-directional and pair with a  (optional?) 4-7 kW inverter that could 
be used to power parts of your house in a power outage situation via 
the CSS/CHADEMO port.


Jay





On 3/9/20 8:15 AM, Willie McKemie via EV wrote:

I have a neighbor who has a Leaf with a failed onboard charger.  He
correctly decided that the chademo charger offered by evseadapters was
a viable alternaive to having the onboard charger repaired/replaced.

https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2020/02/rays-new-chademo-charger.html

Testing reveals that it does charge Leafs and imievs.  We have so far
failed to charge a Tesla.  Though it makes no sense to use it to
charge a Tesla.


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Re: [EVDL] Porsche Taycan 93kWh EV review on motorweek.org

2020-02-17 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Pretty much any L3 charger.

I know that ChargePoint can handle it, so I suspect the others can as well.

Cheers, Peter

On 2/17/20 6:24 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

I wonder where you can charge a vehicle that is 800 volts.

On Monday, February 17, 2020, 12:19:33 AM CST, Mark Abramowitz via EV
wrote:

Or how poor the Porsche is in this department. Then again, who buys a Porsche for efficiency?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Feb 16, 2020, at 4:06 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

If this is correct then it’s a good example of how Tesla is so far ahead.
93kwh / 200 miles = 465 Wh/m. My model S guts 350 Wh/m and the model 3 gets
250 Wh/m.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2020, at 11:37 PM, evln via EV wrote:

% Below is the text from motorweek's review of the
Taycan Turbo S EV and one ota TV listing for the SF-CA PBS
station. Other PBS stations might also be broadcasting the
show, explore
https://www.google.com/search?q=motorweek+Episode+3924

IMO, the review shows motorweek is including more EVs, but
they are still not-EV-drivers ...
Porsche is not the only automaker going 800V packs (see
links below). Actually they 800V systems were touted at
EVS.org/edta/electricdrive.org shows way back in the 2000's.
But now that 300+mi range is where the range bar has been
set, higher pack voltages allow for faster charging of high
kWh packs.

-MW wasted time talking about Mission E, and mpge values,
when they should have otten dow to the nitty gritty of range
between models. The cheaper 4s has the most range.

-MW supported Porsche's use of Turbo naming as their norm,
even though the EV has no turbo-mech, see
https://www.google.com/search?q=taycan+turbo+musk

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-130k-Porsche-s-turbo-less-Taycan-Turbo-performance-EV-tp4692356.html

-MW showed way too many shots of the EV's active rear spoiler
when really it is useless as it only raises up 2 inches. The EV's
price could have been lower just by making the rear design in
the up position with out the silly motorized control. And an
added amplified interor e-motor sound is also dumb.

-MW didn't grasp the regen/freewheeling EVs use as they
disparagingly said: 'off the throttle it still wants to surge
on' = MW is still EV clueless. See below ... %

https://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2020-porsche-taycan-turbo-s/
Road Tests Episode 3924

[images
https://www.motorweek.org/images/made/images/road_tests/2020_porsche_taycan_turbo_S_1_638_359_80.jpg

https://www.motorweek.org/images/road_tests/2020_porsche_taycan_turbo_S_3.jpg

https://www.motorweek.org/images/road_tests/2020_porsche_taycan_turbo_S_4.jpg

https://www.motorweek.org/images/road_tests/2020_porsche_taycan_turbo_S_2.jpg
]

Being the proud performance-oriented brand that they are, Porsche could only
sit back and watch tesla parade around at ludicrous speed for so long. Time
for them to enter the full-EV business in a big way, a way that only Porsche
can. So let’s head out onto the track with the Taycan Turbo S.

There are many thoughts that go through your head when you enter a race
track property behind the wheel of a high performance car. Usually, “where
am I going to plug this thing in?” is not one of them. But, here we are at
Roebling Road Raceway near Savannah, Georgia with the all-electric 2020
Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

Battery recharging aside, track time in the Taycan, quickly reveals a very
familiar feel.

But before we get too far, we need to better inform you of what exactly it
is we’re driving here.

The Porsche EV journey of course, started with the Mission E Concept of
2015. And over these last 5-years, Porsche has assembled the crème de la
crème of electrified automotive performance sedans.

Powertrain setup is not that unique from other EVs; two-motor arrangement,
one up front, one in rear, providing all-wheel-drive with up to
670-horsepower in the Taycan Turbo. This Turbo S cranks things up to
750-horsepower, with 774 lb-ft. of available torque.

That’s right, Turbo has become more of a model name in the Porsche world,
not so much a descriptor of what’s under the hood; so using the name here is
not that much of a stretch.

There is some uniqueness with the Taycan; as it is the first EV to operate
on an 800-volt system, which allows you to get to 80% charge in as little as
22 ½ minutes. And, there’s a 2-speed transmission on the rear axle;
providing ultimate acceleration when launching, and higher efficiency when
cruising.

93-kWh of battery capacity, delivers 192-miles of range; the standard Taycan
Turbo just over 200.

Slightly less if you’re doing ¼-mile runs like this. The Turbo S launches
with a sheer brutality that makes the Nissan GT-R seem tame. Power delivery
is just relentless. It feels like you’ve just left the line, when you glance
down and your already approaching triple digits, after clearing 60 in
2.8-seconds.

No gears to change, no tach to monitor, just hold on for dear

Re: [EVDL] Negative visibility> humans not plugging in Tesla PD chase EV

2019-10-05 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 10/5/19 1:41 PM, Jan Steinman via EV wrote:

From: Lee Hart 

"wireless charging" is fundamentally just a transformer.

With an extremely lossy core!

It's been decades since I worked in RF engineering, but they don't change the 
laws of physics very often.

Electromagnetic coupling between two coils depends on the frequency of the 
signal being propagated, proximity of the coils, and permeability of the 
material between the coils. All three factor seem to be challenged in 
rapid-charging EV batteries.

Frequency is at odds with high currents, which means larger conductors, which has a "skin 
effect" at higher frequencies. Proximity is an obvious problem with contactless charging, 
unless one coil is inserted into another, which sorta loses the main advantage of 
"contactless." And the permeability of iron is about 1,000 times more than that of 
nitrogen (the major component of air), which is actually an inhibitor — you're better off using a 
vacuum than nitrogen!

So, how does modern "contactless" high-power charging work? Seems like an intractable 
design problem to me! I'm guessing it involves "contact" between hefty iron cores at 
moderate frequencies. But I admit, I don't know.

Jan

Not lossy at at all.  This is a focused magnetic flux, which is captured 
by litz wires on top of ferrite. The efficiencies (plug to battery) are 
between 92 and 93%.  Best I've seen for conductive charging is 96%.


They are using several different frequencies for different solutions:  
85 kHz for small autos, 20 or 40 kHz for larger truck chargers.


For how this is working, check out the website I posted earlier.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] Negative visibility> humans not plugging in Tesla PD chase EV

2019-10-04 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

They have chargers that can operate up to 11 kW, and effeciencies around
92 to 93%. If I remember correctly, BMW is using this charger for some
high-end EVs. Not sure who Daimler is going with.

Cheers!

On 10/3/19 5:38 PM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:

Is charging wirelessly less efficient or take more time?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Oct 3, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

For other devices that charge wirelessly, check out Witricity.com. I used to
work for a competitor of theirs

Cheers, Peter

On 10/3/19 11:57 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

Last Tuesday when I swung by to check-out the new
San Antonio SuperEVSE ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVangel-about-San-Antonio-TX-Tesla-Supercharger-site-Watt-me-worry-tp4695295.html
EVangel-about: San_Antonio-TX Tesla Supercharger site ... (Watt-me-worry)

Just before I ended my chat with the Tesla EV drivers, a
white pick-up truck (ice) pulled up in front of the visiting
San_Diego Tesla-3 EV (it had vendor/contractor markings like
it worked for the city, looking similar to
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/71/35/45/15063406/3/1024x1024.jpg
)

With the truck driver's his arm stretched out as to point to the Tesla
EVs, the truck driver yelled out asking 'You heard about the Tesla
police car that couldn't do a high speed chase ...

The two EV drivers were take back from responding, but
since I had already posted this:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Change-PD-policy2-80SOC-shift-beginning-Tesla-Pursuit-cut-short-tp4695194.html

I quickly yelled back, 'I know all about this ... The
problem wasn't the Tesla.
It was the officers not plugging it in (I wanted to
elaborate like, 'You know, you don't go out on a job
when you need to fill your truck's tank first' ... but I could
see I'd lose his short-attention-span, so I didn't).

I did end the answer with a cell phone analogy he likely
could have related to. I said, 'There is a way to not have
to plug it in.' Pointing to the Tesla-3 EV's hood, 'You
can mount a device, so that when you park your car, it
charges automatically from underneath,
https://www.google.com/search?q=wireless+charging+tesla
like the way a phone wirelessly charges.
https://www.powermat.com/technology/compatible-phones/

The guy sort of understood that, but his face still wanted
to continue the 'EVs don't work' attitude his hate-talk-radio
program had spewed. He pulled his arm in, about to leave
saying, 'So, they didn't plugin it in' ...
(It seemed he got the message that the humans have to
do their part).

At least this was a better statement (more the truth) than
back in the 1990-2000's when automakers were pushing
hybrids (hevs) saying 'you never need to plug them in'.
The truck driver could have said, 'You still have-to
plug them in ...'.
After 30 years, perhaps that is a little progress from way
back then.

IMO, this newsitem was spread too far and wide
https://www.google.com/search?q=Fremont+Police+Department+tesla
to not be the work of the anti-EV koch-kool-aid machine.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/29/fremont-police-department-pushes-back-about-tesla-low-battery-fud/
A push-back news item ... loosely translated says,
“Can everyone please calm down?” ...

Anyone wanting to suggest to Fremont PD to use wireless charging
to offset officers not plugging in, and since it is an 85 to change PD
policy to not take it out unless it is 80% charged (80%SOC) can
find their pr person contact info on
https://www.fremontpolice.org/index.aspx?NID=170

https://www.pluglesspower.com/learn/wireless-ev-charging-works-tesla-model-s/
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=inductive+charging+tesla

For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/

{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] Negative visibility> humans not plugging in Tesla PD chase EV

2019-10-03 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

For other devices that charge wirelessly, check out Witricity.com.  I 
used to work for a competitor of theirs


Cheers, Peter

On 10/3/19 11:57 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


Last Tuesday when I swung by to check-out the new
San Antonio SuperEVSE ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVangel-about-San-Antonio-TX-Tesla-Supercharger-site-Watt-me-worry-tp4695295.html
EVangel-about: San_Antonio-TX Tesla Supercharger site ... (Watt-me-worry)

Just before I ended my chat with the Tesla EV drivers, a
white pick-up truck (ice) pulled up in front of the visiting
San_Diego Tesla-3 EV (it had vendor/contractor markings like
it worked for the city, looking similar to
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/71/35/45/15063406/3/1024x1024.jpg
)

With the truck driver's his arm stretched out as to point to the Tesla
EVs, the truck driver yelled out asking 'You heard about the Tesla
police car that couldn't do a high speed chase ...

The two EV drivers were take back from responding, but
since I had already posted this:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Change-PD-policy2-80SOC-shift-beginning-Tesla-Pursuit-cut-short-tp4695194.html

I quickly yelled back, 'I know all about this ... The
problem wasn't the Tesla.
It was the officers not plugging it in (I wanted to
elaborate like, 'You know, you don't go out on a job
when you need to fill your truck's tank first' ... but I could
see I'd lose his short-attention-span, so I didn't).

I did end the answer with a cell phone analogy he likely
could have related to. I said, 'There is a way to not have
to plug it in.' Pointing to the Tesla-3 EV's hood, 'You
can mount a device, so that when you park your car, it
charges automatically from underneath,
https://www.google.com/search?q=wireless+charging+tesla
  like the way a phone wirelessly charges.
https://www.powermat.com/technology/compatible-phones/

The guy sort of understood that, but his face still wanted
to continue the 'EVs don't work' attitude his hate-talk-radio
program had spewed. He pulled his arm in, about to leave
saying, 'So, they didn't plugin it in' ...
  (It seemed he got the message that the humans have to
do their part).

At least this was a better statement (more the truth) than
back in the 1990-2000's when automakers were pushing
hybrids (hevs) saying 'you never need to plug them in'.
The truck driver could have said, 'You still have-to
plug them in ...'.
After 30 years, perhaps that is a little progress from way
back then.

IMO, this newsitem was spread too far and wide
https://www.google.com/search?q=Fremont+Police+Department+tesla
  to not be the work of the anti-EV koch-kool-aid machine.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/29/fremont-police-department-pushes-back-about-tesla-low-battery-fud/
A push-back news item  ... loosely translated says,
  “Can everyone please calm down?” ...

Anyone wanting to suggest to Fremont PD to use wireless charging
to offset officers not plugging in, and since it is an 85 to change PD
policy to not take it out unless it is 80% charged (80%SOC) can
find their pr person contact info on
https://www.fremontpolice.org/index.aspx?NID=170


https://www.pluglesspower.com/learn/wireless-ev-charging-works-tesla-model-s/
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=inductive+charging+tesla




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
  http://evdl.org/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

2019-09-11 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Hi Folks,

The next version of ISO 15118 will include V2G. Usual scenarios are:
Home/business Island, Camping, and Grid Stabilization.
A lot of this came from Japan, where they have strong interest in V2G
(especially after Fukushima). Note that CHAdeMO already has V2G.

Cheers, Peter

On 9/11/19 3:36 PM, Dan Baker via EV wrote:

Thanks Cor for the info. Maybe someday a revision to V2G will allow this,
doesn't seem like much of a change to make it happen. I understand why Grid
tie solar isnt setup this way, a passing cloud could easily drop output
below the power required, what happens at night, too many variables. But an
EV would supply steady power output.

Cheers
Dan

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 5:54 PM Cor van de Water
wrote:

Dan,

One word – no.

Typically V2G or V2H is acting exacly like a Solar inverter, meaning that
it can deliver power when there is already AC power to begin with. The
reason is that it is designed for load support (brownout protection) for
short periods of time where the grid gets overloaded. When the grid fails,
the charging station will shut down and not even attempt to connect to the
car.

In theory the car is capable of generating a micro grid and in addition
you find this function on some inverters that connect to the Nissan Leaf DC
Fast Charge port (CHAdeMO) while the Combo port is in standardization to
allow bidirectional power transfer. This type of inverter is “island”, so
it cannot connect to the grid, but you can generate power, it simply uses
the car battery as backup battery.

I have seen a few people who connect a UPS to a Prius Hybrid battery,
allowing more than the ~800W of AC power, though typically you do not need
a lot of power to keep the fridge going, if you can do without electric
heat.

As soon as you want to run a microwave or water cooker or electric coffee
maker, you need more than 1kW inverter. Having a gas stove, a BBQ or
similar non-electric powered cooker is helpful if you like to have warm
food or drink during a power outage…

Cor.

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

*From: *Dan Baker via EV
*Sent: *Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:37 PM
*To: *Electric Vehicle Discussion List
*Cc: *Dan Baker
*Subject: *[EVDL] V2G - any specs for home power generation during
outages?

In the wake of Hurricane Dorian, my province Nova Scotia had over 400,000

customers without power. Our home had no power for over 27 hours. Luckily I

have lots of batteries and a generator but many homes did not have a backup

option and still 60,000 are on Day 4 without. One gentleman ( a fellow FB

friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and
freezer:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0

Not the most elegant setup but worked great none the less. My question is,

does Vehicle to Grid have any options for home power during outages? Would

seem to be a great opportunity for EVs, instead of buying a generator use

that money towards an EV and a V2G equipped charger. Obviously some safety

measures would have to be put in like a bypass switch used in panel fed

generators. Would probably be even safer than a generator as usually 1-2

people die a year in this province alone from carbon monoxide poisoning

from generators not placed in a well ventilated area.

Thanks

Dan

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Re: [EVDL] % Google Maps is NOT a reliable tool to find EVSE % (goog-pr)

2019-05-01 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 5/1/19 8:50 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 30 Apr 2019 at 4:16, David Nelson via EV wrote:


Plugshare.com lists stations in Europe. Maybe someone who has been to France
can comment on the reliability of it.

Thanks for the reference, but that's actually why I posted that question.  I
tried Plugshare.  In the particular small French city I checked, which I
know has at least 5 public EVSEs (at least 3 of them free), Plugshare
identifies only one.

I found somewhat better results at chargemap.com.  Oddly, its search gadget
couldn't find the city I was interested in, but with a bunch of clicking,
zooming, and scrolling, I was able to find it on the map.  (Having to do all
that on a mobile phone's itty-bitty screen and mouseless UI would kind of
suck.)  Chargemap then spotted 4 of the 5 EVSEs.

Unfortunately, before they'll tell me anything about those EVSEs, Chargemap
want me to sign up so they can email me spam, and I'm not going to do that
just now.

I also tried plugsurfing.com, but they didn't find ANYTHING.  They seem more
focused on higher power, expensive autoroute EVSEs where they presumably get
a nice big fat cut of the profits.

So I was just wondering if any of our EU correspondents had a better idea.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

Hi David,

Have you tried the ChargePoint app? I just looked around France with it, 
and it found a ton of charging stations.

However, it may also require you to sign up, I'm not sure.

What town in France were you looking at?

Cheers, Peter

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

2018-10-22 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

This actually makes sense - especially if you have lots of batteries in 
the RV as well. I think it would also be possible to use the EV as the 
Large Battery for your RV, but Tesla may not allow such a modification.


Cheers, Peter

On 10/22/18 6:47 AM, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:

My wife and I are on the waiting list for a 220 mile range Model 3. We
don't need the 310 mile range or the high performance.

When we travel it is usually by motorhome. I've thought about towing the EV
on a trailer that is covered with solar panels. A recharge while boon
docking would be no problem.
BobK

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 8:41 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:


ALL EV's are predominantly charged while parked.  Solar panels on EV's are
not for propulsion power but for battery charging during the 8 to 16 hour
solar day while parked in the sun, not just the 30 minutes the car is in
use.  This is for those without a dedicated charger at home.

Bob


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:26 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Alan Arrison 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars

The numbers don't add up for solar panels on automobiles, never have, never
will.

This has been proven time and time again.

There is no way it gets even 20 miles per kWh under anything but perfect
conditions and slow speeds.

And the energy from the panels again is under perfect conditions.

It is so light because it has almost no crash protection.

Al



On 10/21/2018 3:09 PM, Larry Gales via EV wrote:

When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different
results from the negative views of solar powered cars.  I start with
the assumption that the Dutch students who have won most of the solar
car records are not actually lying.  So, the specs for the 4 passenger
Stella Lux include these:



Length

178 inches

Width

69 inches

Height

44 inches

Weight

826 pounds

Battery Capacity

15 kWh

Motor Efficiency

97 percent

Range on sunny day (Netherlands)

621 miles

Range on sunny day (Australia)

683 miles

Range at night (on battery)

403 miles

Top Speed

77 mph



So, if the range at night is 403 miles and the battery is 15 kWh, that
translates to 26.8 miles/kWh.  Let us suppose that is under ideal
conditions, and that a more realistic value is 20 miles/kWh.  The
solar PV array is 1.5 kW, so a more realistic value under real world
conditions is
0.75 kW.  In Seattle, where I live, which has about the worst solar
potential in the USA, the average solar intensity in July is 6.3 sun
hours.
So, (0.75 * 6.3 * 20) = 94.5 miles.  If we usually travel only 40
miles/day, I could easily see traveling 200 miles on accumulated solar
energy, after, say, a week of 40 miles/day travel.  And given that 5
months/year we average over 60% of the July values we can travel about
60 miles/day just on stored sunlight from the car.  And the 5
passenger Stella Vie is just as efficient.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM brucedp5 via EV 
wrote:


https://qz.com/1423288/why-dont-we-have-solar-powered-cars-physics/
The physics of why we don’t have solar-powered cars October 15, 2018
Michael J. Coren

[image
https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/image1-e1539387897807.p
ng
The Sono Motors Car
]

The nuclear furnace at the center of solar system powers almost
everything on earth. Photosynthesis, wind, and even fossil fuels
(once decomposed living matter) all derive in some way from the star we
call the Sun.

So why isn’t it enough to power our cars?

It’s all about energy density: how much energy falls on a surface
relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes
that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans,
even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do they
have in common?
They’re
all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.

For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
(155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.

The Sono Motors Car

Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director of
its Vehicle Electrification Group.

Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels could
propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
for us.

Michalek says

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Ford 76kWh WORK XL(StreetScooter) e-van> DHL.de-only

2018-10-17 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

One can indeed hope.  I HAD an Azure motor and controller - worked great 
most of the time (over heated too much in San Diego). Wonderful debug 
capabilities, too.  *sigh*


On 10/17/18 4:41 AM, AL SWACKHAMMER via EV wrote:

One can only hope that StreetScooter doesn't meet the same demise as Azure 
Dynamics did for getting involved with Ford.



On October 17, 2018 at 12:41 AM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:




http://www.thedrive.com/tech/24151/ford-begins-production-of-electric-delivery-vans-in-germany
Ford Begins Production of Electric Delivery Vans in Germany
October 10, 2018  Talon Homer

[image
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/slide_021.jpg
]

The Transit chassis-based vehicles are being built in partnership with
German EV developer StreetScooter.

This month, Ford started assembly on a specialized electric delivery van it
calls the "Deutsche Post StreetScooter WORK XL" at its factory in Cologne,
Germany. The Transit chassis-based van features an electric drivetrain
designed by StreetScooter, an EV company also based in Germany. According to
a release from Ford, the WORK XL transits are all destined to serve as
parcel shipping vehicles for Deutsche Post DHL, the current owner of
StreetScooter.

“With Ford, we have found the ideal partner who understands our flexible and
customer-oriented way of production. Together, we are promoting
electromobility in Germany and making inner?city delivery traffic more
environmentally friendly and quieter," said StreetScooter CEO Dr. Achim
Kampker. "With the new WORK XL StreetScooter, we now have the perfect e-van
for parcel delivery in metropolitan areas, which in the future will also
benefit other transport companies.”

Ford states that its assigned around 180 employees with the task of
producing sixteen examples of the WORK XL per day, and up to 3,500 vehicles
in one year. As the vans roll out of the plant, they will be utilized by DHL
drivers across Germany. For this purpose, the vehicle offers up more than
700 cubic feet of cargo space, and will be able to carry a 2,800 pound load
up to 120 miles on a single charge.

These numbers are achieved thanks to 76 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion batteries
supplied by StreetScooter. The batteries power a motor sending 120 horspower
and 200 pound-feet of torque to the rear wheels. Ford also estimates that
replacing diesel vans with its electric equivalent will save an average of
500 gallons of fuel per vehicle, per year.

While the WORK XL is currently only available to DHL within Germany, "The
future availability of the electric van to third-party customers is under
consideration."
[© thedrive.com]


+
https://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Gear_and_Tech/watch-jaguar-creates-new-system-to-protect-blind-pedestrians-from-near-silent-electric-cars-20181012
WATCH: Jaguar creates new system to protect blind pedestrians from
near-silent electric cars
2018-10-12  Iain Suffield, Jaguar NVH Technical Specialist, said: "The
absence of traditional engine noise from electric vehicles creates a problem
for vulnerable pedestrians ...
https://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/5998/ea639e29c2a446acab36c24936633143.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
  http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu

2018-10-16 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

There are other used EVs worth purchasing.  I just bought a 2016 VW 
E-Golf for my commute.  S much nicer than my homebuilt EV - has 
airbags, seriously nice stereo, power steering and brakes, AND WORKING 
AIRCON!


OK, sorry about the caps there, but hey, working aircon in an EV is a 
wonder to behold.


EV-grin is now restored.

Cheers, Peter

On 10/16/18 6:23 PM, Alan Brinkman via EV wrote:

I read a few posts but not the whole thread, but had to say less than 2 cents 
worth...

My son and I were bored out of our minds at a mall in San Diego, California, 
waiting for several hours for the wife and daughter who were in the Apple 
store

We eventually found a Tesla store and googled over the Tesla Model X the 
fit and finish.. this model had six seats, the middle two slid forward to 
easily enter the rear most 2 seats. gull wing doors for the 
passengers front trunk that maybe would hold two shoe 
boxes. price unknown - we did not ask. I see Tesla's on the freeway and 
you can tell the build quality looking from the next lane over at 70 miles per 
hour and I have old eyes.

Do I wish they were affordable? Yes. Are they affordable to me? No. Are they 
quality? Cutting edge? Our home town mall half way between San Diego and Tucson 
Arizona has a Tesla charging station. I bet there are no local Teslas here.

When I get good and ready to buy an Electric car I will get a used Nissan Leaf 
because of my price range. However, Tesla has made a great stand for Electric 
Vehicles. They did not turn their back on them like Chevrolet with the EV1.

Bob Rice would like the Tesla, but he would have some self-invented words to 
describe the price, the sheer number of batteries, the computer system not 
repairable by owners, the sales lot being inside a mall, the chargers not 
available to the public, the sheeple who buy them (sorry for that).

Make it a battery powered electric day!
Alan




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Re: [EVDL] Odp: Motorcycle hub motor setup

2018-10-15 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

There are a lot of off-the-shelf controllers out there now, see if this
helps:

https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/trsc/rec-categories/controllers1

You may end up having to replace the motor as well.

Best of luck!
Peter

On 10/15/18 12:38 PM, Artur Kubik via EV wrote:

I bought Zap at 2010 from China (Mountain Chan). They sent me e-scooter with 19xLiFePO4
(40Ah) and witch lead battery charger. Now I know It but a bit too late and cells are dead.
This e-scooter has 2500W/60V motor, not popular because is it six phase. I bought new
batteries and try to use it but after seven years staying at garrage the controler is
broken - I have message like current controll sensor error - start power again or
replace controller. Since year I am looking for spare controller for replace this
broken one but I cant find it :(

Dnia 15 października 2018 19:36 Eduardo Kaftanski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org napisał(a):

Hi list,

In one strange turn of events, I am now the owner of a Chinese electric

scooter. It’s a 72v lithium system with a rear hub motor. As far as I know
it’s the only one of its kind in the country (Chile) as it was brought as a
demonstrator for a business that ultimately failed.

It’s sold with a bunch of different names and I’ve found it’s based on a

generic gas scooter. This one has a Zap vin plate riveted in. It has never
been registered but I am working of that.

I kind of like driving it, but I would like to hack it and reuse the parts

to convert a Kawasaki 250 or 300 from gas to ev.

Problem is, I now almost nothing about it. Is there some site or sites

where I can learn about this Chinese ev setups?

Are hub motors interchangeable? I would need to buy a 17” one for the

Kawasaki but I would like to reuse all the other parts.

Any info and pointers are welcome!

Thanks!

Eduardo Kaftanski
edua...@kdi.cl
ekaf...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: ID/authentication-sys in EV's charging port (v)

2018-05-02 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 5/1/18 8:24 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 1 May 2018 at 20:14, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


After plugging the charging connector
into the vehicle, a secure, encrypted data connection is established. Over
that, the identity of the car can be established and the charging begun,
without needing any active involvement by the driver.

I sure hope there's some way for you, the owner, to say "Not so fast."
Otherwise, when the bad guy steals your EV, he won't have to worry about not
having your wallet and/or smartphone when he pulls up to a charging station.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


Yes, the certificate on the EV can be revoked, just as the certificate 
on the EVSE can be revoked.


Lots of different scenarios have been evaluated to make sure this will 
work in all cases (including theft, malicious equipment, and stupid users).


Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

2018-01-10 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I've driven off with cars that have battery tenders installed and plugs 
not visible.  Bad scene.


Here is what I did for my EV (see the second picture) so I couldn't 
ignore the plug:

http://cruzware.com/peter/blog/?p=115

Cheers, Peter

On 1/10/18 4:13 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

The lock is to prevent arching when you disconnect

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 9, 2018, at 10:42 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

I have never understood why the NEC _requires_ an EV charging plug be "locking".
It makes no sense.

If you drive away (or the vehicle somehow rolls, is towed, or moves away) the 
plug should simply come out.

As it is now, the locking plug won't give, so the cord breaks, or worse, the 
charger rips from the wall, damaging the fixed wiring.

The plug should not be _required_ to lock into place. It would be far safer to 
simply have the plug come out when the vehicle moves and the cord is strained.

Bill D.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Flying e-Hovercycle, e-motorcycle, auton patrol nEV, e-Robocop @Gitex in UAE

2017-10-15 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 10/15/17 9:17 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 15 Oct 2017 at 14:24, Rod Hower via EV wrote:


Hovercycle? Looks more like a human food processor.  Who comes up with
this stuff?

The other question is, who would want to USE it?  It looks like an alien UFO
from a low budget horror film.

I'm much more worried about those open propellers - there is zero 
shielding if one breaks or someone gets too near the blades.  Ugh.

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Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)

2017-04-09 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

More research is definitely called for - their notes include this: "Do 
not use when the temperature is above 0C." :(


Cheers, Peter

On 4/9/17 8:47 PM, Marco Gaxiola wrote:

Ohh those pads looks nice..

Thanks for the advices, Yes, I think cooling the batteries in the 
summer time won't be a big problem (compared to the Arizona's / 
Sonora's wheater; excessive heat) Since I found the average 
temperature there doesn't go avobe 25°C


my biggest concern was the idea of using the AC as a heat pump, but 
you have clarified this, thanks!



Marco Gaxiola

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 8:22 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>> wrote:


You can also get heating pads designed for lead-acid batteries -
these tend to be rugged and acid proof.

Example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I8VL16/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8=ECZS9XXRJF00=I1DAV5PWDDSP7T

<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I8VL16/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8=ECZS9XXRJF00=I1DAV5PWDDSP7T>

Cheers, Peter


On 4/9/17 9:07 AM, ROBERT via EV wrote:

Why re-invent the wheel.  I have some aircraft NICAD
batteries.  They have a heating pad in each battery box and a
thermostat.  Each battery box has a inlet and outlet for
forced air circulation.  Just buy some of these heating pad.



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org
<mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org>> on behalf of Cor van de
Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>>
Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 6:29 PM
To: Marco Gaxiola; Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Jukka
Järvinen
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating
(heat pump)

Marco,
If you are concerned about battery temp in summer, then you
can always
Add a fan that pushes air into the box and an exhaust with
self-closing flap
At a high (warm) point that will let air out when the fan
pressurizes the box.

What others have found is that you try to balance the amount
of insulation
Such that the pack will stay warm enough long enough, but not
as much insulation
That it will overheat easily, so essentially you need to
estimate how much heat
You produce charging and driving and then size the insulation
value accordingly.
If this gives an unrealistic solution then active heating
(resistive typically on
Shore power only) and possibly active cooling (just blowing
ambient air through
The box, typically, no A/C for batteries please, we don't need
a new EV1.

Hope this clarifies,
Cor.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org
<mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org>] On Behalf Of Marco Gaxiola
via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2017 10:49 AM
To: Jukka Järvinen
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating
(heat pump)

Thanks for the reply...

its in Norway..

Thanks for the advice. We've been thinking on a heat pump
system, but not sure if it worths all the complexity of the
system to put in the vehicle considering heat is for sure
gonna to be used during winter, but what about summer time? do
they use the AC for colling in the summer?

Otherwise, just a resistive heating element would be the
simplest way to go?


Marco Gaxiola
energyev.com <http://energyev.com>

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Jukka Järvinen
<akkuju...@akkujukka.fi <mailto:akkuju...@akkujukka.fi>>
wrote:

What do you consider 'a very cold area in north europe"?

Easy advice for batteries:
Insulation, insulation, insulation.

:)

For cabin one can direct charger cooling fan to circulate
air over night.
Most important is to keep moist out as people tend to
cloth themselves
during beach weather (-10C) and when it's actually cold
(-35C and below).
It is pretty unconfortable if cabin is too warm (>+18C).

-Jukka


to 6. huhtikuuta 2017 klo 22.42 Marco Gaxiola via EV
<ev@lists.evdl.org <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>>
kirjoitti:

 I'm helping a friend to design a conversion
battery pack for a
very cold area in north europe and was wondering if
someone here has
used an electric AC unit as a heat pump, either for
heating up and
comfort of the passe

Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)

2017-04-09 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

You can also get heating pads designed for lead-acid batteries - these 
tend to be rugged and acid proof.


Example:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I8VL16/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8=ECZS9XXRJF00=I1DAV5PWDDSP7T

Cheers, Peter

On 4/9/17 9:07 AM, ROBERT via EV wrote:

Why re-invent the wheel.  I have some aircraft NICAD batteries.  They have a 
heating pad in each battery box and a thermostat.  Each battery box has a inlet 
and outlet for forced air circulation.  Just buy some of these heating pad.



From: EV  on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV 

Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 6:29 PM
To: Marco Gaxiola; Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Jukka Järvinen
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)

Marco,
If you are concerned about battery temp in summer, then you can always
Add a fan that pushes air into the box and an exhaust with self-closing flap
At a high (warm) point that will let air out when the fan pressurizes the box.

What others have found is that you try to balance the amount of insulation
Such that the pack will stay warm enough long enough, but not as much insulation
That it will overheat easily, so essentially you need to estimate how much heat
You produce charging and driving and then size the insulation value accordingly.
If this gives an unrealistic solution then active heating (resistive typically 
on
Shore power only) and possibly active cooling (just blowing ambient air through
The box, typically, no A/C for batteries please, we don't need a new EV1.

Hope this clarifies,
Cor.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Marco Gaxiola via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2017 10:49 AM
To: Jukka Järvinen
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)

Thanks for the reply...

its in Norway..

Thanks for the advice. We've been thinking on a heat pump system, but not sure 
if it worths all the complexity of the system to put in the vehicle considering 
heat is for sure gonna to be used during winter, but what about summer time? do 
they use the AC for colling in the summer?

Otherwise, just a resistive heating element would be the simplest way to go?


Marco Gaxiola
energyev.com

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Jukka Järvinen 
wrote:


What do you consider 'a very cold area in north europe"?

Easy advice for batteries:
Insulation, insulation, insulation.

:)

For cabin one can direct charger cooling fan to circulate air over night.
Most important is to keep moist out as people tend to cloth themselves
during beach weather (-10C) and when it's actually cold (-35C and below).
It is pretty unconfortable if cabin is too warm (>+18C).

-Jukka


to 6. huhtikuuta 2017 klo 22.42 Marco Gaxiola via EV

kirjoitti:


 I'm helping a friend to design a conversion battery pack for a
very cold area in north europe and was wondering if someone here has
used an electric AC unit as a heat pump, either for heating up and
comfort of the passengers on board, as well; and most important; to
keep the battery pack warm enough on blow freezing temperatures.

Marco Gaxiola
energyev.com
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Re: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report

2016-12-11 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Also:
In 2001, ADL wrote a Philip Morris-funded report saying that smoking can 
help Czech economy:Public Finance Balance of Smoking in the Czech 
Republic 
.


Cheers

On 12/11/16 6:40 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

According to this Wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_D._Little

A.D.Little was bought by Paris-based Altran Technologies in 2002.

"Under Altran's ownership, Arthur D. Little rebuilt its core practices 
in oil and gas, telecommunications, automotive and manufacturing and 
chemicals and reopened its US offices. Arthur D. Little continues to 
be active and recognized for its expertise in areas combining aspects 
of technology, innovation, and strategy."


In my opinion, that pretty much sums it up.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Joe Fields via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc:
Sent: 11-Dec-16 3:29:34 PM
Subject: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report

Recently I saw this report from the management consulting firm A. D. 
Little
referenced in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Holman W. 
Jenkins, Jr.:


http://www.adlittle.us/uploads/tx_extthoughtleadership/ADL_BEVs_vs_ICEVs_FINAL_November_292016.pdf 



The report claims that BEVs have only a slight margin over ICEs in 
terms of

greenhouse gas reduction (23%) and that BEVs are significantly more
polluting overall.  To quote the WSJ article:

"... its total “human toxicity”—mainly due to heavy metals and
graphite—will be three to five times greater."

I don't know anything about ADL's reputation, but this analysis 
appears to

be strangely biased.  For instance my conversion's LiFePO4 cells don't
contain ANY heavy metals, but the catalytic converter in my gas car
definitely does contain platinum and palladium (which are obtained via
notoriously polluting mining operations...)

So two questions for the list:

Is there a reputable source that would refute this analysis?

Is there something I don't know about ADL's motivations for smearing 
EVs?

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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform

2016-07-26 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

While Peri does have a point, it is extremely pessimistic to say that we 
will never get to the "good enough" stage.


There are some very talented software engineers working on this 
problem.  Working in a similar fashion to coding for the space program. 
When  you have enough talented engineers working on a difficult problem, 
with enough latitude to fix what needs fixing, you will get the problem 
solved to the "good enough" stage. Nothing will ever be perfect, and to 
try to aim for perfect on the first try is to doom your product to 
failure - because you will never reach the market.


As an example, remember when Apple tried to outdo Google with their own 
map program?  Sure, it failed, and in very public ways. However, compare 
now - they are quite close in reliability. Voice recognition is another 
area that has rapidly improved - when was the last time Siri didn't 
understand you?


There is an engineering axiom:  "Don't let Perfect be the enemy of the 
Good".  This is nothing new - Confucius said something similar a long 
time ago.


There's another old saying:  "Never say never."  :)

Cheers, Peter


On 7/26/16 3:32 PM, damon henry via EV wrote:

I still say that the majority of American drivers who think they will never 
trust an autonomous vehicle will change their minds as soon as the insurance 
companies offer them $5 less a month on their auto insurance :)
Damon


Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:15:04 +
To: pe...@kotatko.com; ev@lists.evdl.org; ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless 
(autonomous) Lyft platform
From: ev@lists.evdl.org

The thing is Peri,
There are so many possibilities while driving how can one ever test software 
enough to know
that you have covered every likely possibility. Even so, when there is a crash 
and I am sitting
in the backseat letting the vehicle drive who is responsible for the damage, 
injuries or possible death?
Tesla leaves the responsibility on the driver and I'm not sure it will ever 
move away from that model.


   From: Peri Hartman via EV 
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless 
(autonomous) Lyft platform

I think the big issue will be dealing with the nature of the crashes.

While we have plenty of accidents and fatalities with human drivers
today, most of the time those humans mitigate the accident by reacting
and doing something. That probably helps, even if the result includes a
fatality (but some survivors). Putting statistics aside for a moment,
consider that you are "helpless" in an autonomous car crash.

With autonomous vehicles, I see most failures as being catastrophic.
That is, the software will be completely unaware there is a pending
crash. Of course, it depends on the details of the situation.
Regardless, I think - if enough autonomous car deaths occur - people
will fear the prospect of a catastrophic crash more than they fear being
involved in a mitigated human-controlled crash.

In other words, if you are a safe, alert driver, will you be
statistically more likely to die in an autonomous car crash then in one
where you are in control - or vice versa? Overall, I'm quite certain the
statistics will point to the autonomous car being safer. But maybe not
for a small percentage of truly careful drivers.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Cor van de Water via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 26-Jul-16 10:57:17 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a
driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform


Hi Paul,
No problem - you are free to disagree.
I predict that within 10 years nobody wants to deal with all those
distracted drivers who are trying to drive while also staying in
contact with their family, answering customers and colleagues and
keeping their Facebook status updated. (Almost) everyone will gladly
give the challenges of navigating the road to the self-driving car in
the same way that you hire a driver today to bring you without the
stress and fatigue of driving yourself.
Indeed, there will be accidents and fatalities. But face it - today
there are plenty of those as well without the machines, simply because
humans take a risk. Yesterday I almost crashed because someone decided
that they should try to cross the street coming from behind a van
blocking the view of oncoming traffic.

Blinded by glaring sunlight? Indeed a cause of many crashes today.
Totally preventable with good sensors. Radar is not bothered by
sunlight.

I think Tesla and others are onto something good when they see that
long distance transportation and taxi services are where a lot of money
can be found, though I suspect that a long-distance truck will still
have one human on board (compared to two today, where they drive
alternatingly today to keep the vehicle on the

Re: [EVDL] 12v tales

2016-06-07 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Completely agree - with a small reservation: You don't want to use a
no-name converter in your expensive car. I made that mistake once,
won't do it again. I will only use name-brand equipment. In my EV's
case, I'm using the Meanwell 750W 15V (SP-750-15). I've turned the
voltage down to 13.5V, and it works very well. The previous one somehow
had ingested some metal and literally blew up.

Cheers!

On 6/7/16 12:17 PM, Jan Steinman via EV wrote:

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is that power converters specifically
designed to convert traction pack voltage to 12 VDC are expensive, whereas
generic power supplies that do the same thing for line voltage are cheap.

Almost any “universal” switching power supply designed to work from 120 to 240
VAC without changing jumpers or switches IS a traction pack power converter!
The main difference is a full-wave bridge on the input, which means you don’t
even have to worry about polarity when hooking it up!

These things are dirt cheap from China, like 12 cents a watt or about $1 per
amp. Here’s a bunch of them:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2053587.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H1.X13.8v+40a+power+supply.TRS0&_nkw=13.8v+40a+power+supply&_sacat=0

There is a standard wrong belief about the physics of energy and the economy; it
is the belief we can somehow train the economy to get along without much energy. --
Gail Tverberg
Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF goes wireless EVSE in the interest of science

2016-05-19 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Peter,

Wireless power transfer efficiency (end-to-end) is above 90%.  A google 
search of "wireless EV charging efficiency" shows several companies 
claiming this (including mine).  All of the major OEMs are looking into 
wireless charging as a long-term solution, and are working very hard on 
making sure that the systems will be compatible across the globe.


The mechanical plug idea is not new, but does add problems and costs (as 
do all systems). Water shorting remains an issue, as does blocking. I'm 
sure a good solution will arise for this.


Cheers, Peter



On 5/19/16 6:54 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
From what I have read in the past, inductive pads are not that energy 
efficient as compared to a direct plug in.  Have things changed?


I like the idea behind Apple's Magsafe 2 charging port for laptops.  
With the Magsafe 2 charging system, the port is magnetized so that a 
charger plug will stay attached but will release given enough force.  
This prevents yanking on a firmly connected plug and prevents damage 
to the connective plug and/or receptacle.


For an EV, the idea would be that the plug hangs down from the ceiling 
or pole and a person drives into their garage, carport, or spot on the 
driveway.  The magnetic field is sensed, opens up the charging port 
doors, and the magnetic field draws the plug to the proper position, 
makes contact, a light on the dash confirms proper contact, and 
recharging begins.  When the time comes to drive away, there is no 
plug to remove.  The motion of backing away breaks the magnetic hold 
and the port door automatically closes.  There is no forgetting to 
unplug.


I could see where out in the open where dew and rain might present a 
problem.  How does Tesla, Nissan, and all the other EV manufacturers 
prevent water from causing a short?


On 5/19/16, 3:27 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


https://transportevolved.com/2016/05/13/staff-car-report-our-nissan-leaf-gets-fitted-with-a-wireless-inductive-charging-system-in-the-interests-of-science/ 


Staff Car Report: Our Nissan LEAF Gets Fitted With A WIRELESS INDUCTIVE
CHARGING SYSTEM IN THE INTERESTS OF SCIENCE
MAY 13, 2016  NIKKI GORDON-BLOOMFIELD

[image
https://transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Transport-Evolved-Wireless-Charging-2-580x411.png 

The wireless receiver fits on the underside of the car, and is paired 
with

the wireless inductive transmitter located on the floor

https://transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Transport-Evolved-Plugless-Power-installation-2-580x387.jpg 

At the front of the car, a few extra control cables are interfaced 
with the

stock wiring

https://transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Transport-Evolved-Plugless-Power-installation-19-580x387.jpg 


As the receiver pad is fitted below the trunk area, installation nears
completion

https://transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Transport-Evolved-Plugless-Power-installation-26-580x387.jpg 


New diffuser plates are fitted to protect the inductive charging pad

https://transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Transport-Evolved-Plugless-Power-installation-44-700x467.jpg 

Its not our best work, but as its temporary, this is what our 
installation

looks like

https://transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Transport-Evolved-Plugless-Power-installation-47-580x387.jpg 


As you approach, a series of arrows guide you in
]

With more than 30 years of collaborative electric car and plug-in 
vehicle
ownership under our belts here at Transport Evolved, we’d like to 
think of

ourselves as being pretty well versed in the act of plugging a car in to
recharge it. From our earliest experiences involving standard household
outlets to CHAdeMO DC quick charging and Tesla’s incredibly impressive
Supercharger standard, driving a cleaner, greener car has always 
involved

plugging a cord in somewhere at the end of a trip to recharge our car’s
on-board battery pack for the next journey.

Although anyone who has owned or driven an electric car for any 
length of
time will admit that the act of plugging in a car to charge it is a 
process
that takes just a few seconds, many automakers are investing time and 
energy

into developing wireless inductive charging systems designed to ensure
people never have to plug their car in to charge.

[image]  Inductive charging from mainstream automakers is on the way.
The idea is simple: instead of using an electrically conductive, 
mechanical
plug and socket to send power from a charging station into an 
electric car’s
charging system, you use electromagnetism to do the same thing 
inductively.

And while most inductive charging systems are still very much in the
laboratory test phase right now, wireless inductive charging is 
something
that automakers like Nissan, Volkswagen and Toyota say we’ll be 
seeing on
commercial electric cars in the next decade or so. Such systems, 
we’re told,
will eliminate the fear and worry that some customers have

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

2016-03-07 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I may have been the one to mistakenly say guarantee - you are correct in 
that it is certification.


Cheers, Peter

On 3/7/16 2:39 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

I have never heard of UL guarantee, all I have seen is UL Certification
which is the declaration by the private company UL that they took your
product and documentation and even production method, and tested it to
guarantee that it meets certain spec and safety standards.
The product is then said to be UL Listed.
If you modify the product or its production method, then it no longer
satisfies the original tests that UL did and that is one of the reasons
that UL will inspect products and the factory where they are made, to
verify that they still meet the original specs and still deserve to be
UL Listed.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
   
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water

XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peter C.
Thompson via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 10:34 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

On 3/7/16 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:


The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as

the

current capacity is sufficient.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to

a

device approved for direct connection and not for temporary

installation is

a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still

...

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


Hi David,

It is not a violation if the manufacturer allows you to do so.  If they
don't specifically mention using a plug, then yes, that would be a
violation.  And I agree, you are not likely to get into trouble, just
need to be aware.

Oh, and it likely will void any UL guarantees.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

2016-03-07 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Cor,

I didn't claim that it made any sense.  :)  I agree that having the 
14-50 plug in the garage makes a lot of sense (which is what I have - 
for welding, of course).


Cheers, Peter

On 3/7/16 10:05 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Thanks Peter, for the overview of what plugs the EVSE are supplied with. My 
issue is that you want to be able to plug the charger into a matching wall 
outlet and by my experience the 14-30 and 14-50 are the most common outlets so 
I do not understand why so many chargers have a 6-50 plug even though it is 
simple to cut it off and mount a 14-50 on the cord, it still does not make 
sense to expect people to install a 6-50 where they most likely already have a 
14-50 and you encounter the 14-50 when you are out and about as RV outlet.
Cor


On Mar 7, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Peter C. Thompson via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:

Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The HCS-40P 
uses the 6-50.
GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.

The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the 
current capacity is sufficient.

So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull. Lower 
current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.

Cheers, Peter

P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.


On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp 
charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Cor 
van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What 
You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
am aware of
where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
the
NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.

I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
   office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
-electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
Know
Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker

[images
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
Garage

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug in socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
station
]
   One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
electric
car seems to be the need for a home charging station.

While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

2016-03-07 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 3/7/16 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:


The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the
current capacity is sufficient.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to a
device approved for direct connection and not for temporary installation is
a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still ...

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


Hi David,

It is not a violation if the manufacturer allows you to do so.  If they 
don't specifically mention using a plug, then yes, that would be a 
violation.  And I agree, you are not likely to get into trouble, just 
need to be aware.


Oh, and it likely will void any UL guarantees.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

2016-03-07 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:

Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The 
HCS-40P uses the 6-50.

GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.

The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the 
current capacity is sufficient.


So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull. 
Lower current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.


Cheers, Peter

P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.

On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:

That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp 
charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Cor 
van de Water via EV  Date: 3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
Electric Vehicle Discussion List  Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What 
You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
am aware of
where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
the
NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.

I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
   
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water

XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
-electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
Know
Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker

[images
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
Garage

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug in socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
station
]
   
One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in

electric
car seems to be the need for a home charging station.

While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
240-Volt Level 2 charging station.

Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
depending on the specific car.

Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it takes
to
install one into a garage that's being built or extensively remodeled.

We've just gone through that process for a new garage in New York's
Catskill
Mountains. (Note this applies only to North America!)

There are several steps, but it's important to understand that the
wiring is
the first step, and separate from the charging station--since drivers
may
later choose to upgrade to a more powerful station.

First, work with your contractor and electrician to install a dedicated
240-Volt line to 1 or 2 feet below wherever you plan to locate your
charging
station.

We sited ours in a corner of the

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

2016-03-07 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf range extender

2016-02-17 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

The only reason for the range extender is to get your EV to a place that
it normally could not reach. I've seriously considered building one for
my 914, as my range is only 70 miles. Yes, the mileage is worse when
using the extender, that is to be expected. However, the range extender
is probably a better idea than using a pickup truck and trailer.

YMMV.  :)

Cheers, Peter

On 2/17/16 10:13 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> Just pulling my 4'x4' solar power trailer (about the smallest trailer
> there is) and only 10" high plus the wheels decreases my Prius mileage by
> 10 MPG at least.  That is a 20% range reduction right there...
> 
> Bob
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:10 PM
> To: EVDL Administrator; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf range extender
> 
> Trailer range extenders have the severe limitation of adding drag to the
> EV. The drag added by a trailer is quite significant and can negate a
> large fraction of the added kW-hrs of whatever you may be hauling with the
> trailer.
> 
> It tends to be a "two steps forward, one step back" type situation.
> The two additional wheels plus the aerodrag tend to be more than you would
> initially think. In practice, I have found that pulling a small trailer
> will increase the W-hr per mile usage of an EV by as much as 50%. It is an
> eye opener.
> 
> If you think about it, hauling a trailer is a lot of like dragging half a
> car along behind you.
> 
> Bill D.
> 
> At 10:25 AM 2/17/2016, you wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2016 at 16:36, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>
>>> There have been a lot of past discussions on range
>> extending.  Trailers, small
>>> onboard chargers, etc.  In my opinion, they are rarely justified
>>
>> A battery trailer isn't exactly elegant, but it works.  It lets you
>> have a small, light battery in your EV to handle your everyday needs,
>> but still have lots of range (only) when you need it.
>>
>> The big downside is that a trailer is a royal pain to back.  It also
>> makes the car longer.  Forget parallel parking.
>>
>> Team New England's Solectria Force ran a battery trailer for 3 years
>> (1999-
>> 2002) in the Tour de Sol. It got 156 miles on a charge, about 3-4 times
>> the typical range for a lead-battery Force.  They had a total of about
> 26kWh.
>>
>> http://drmm.net/images/tne_super_force.png
>>
>> The battery trailer is a kid's sandbox on wheels!  The shape not only
>> improved the aerodynamics, it also got a lot of smiles from onlookers.
>>
>> I wonder how a Leaf would fare with a scheme similar to the plug-in
>> Prius conversions of several years ago, where the aux battery is set up
>> to just keep charging the Leaf's onboard battery.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
> 
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] How to learn to love stoplights and your electric car

2015-10-12 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Peri,

Per some of your points:
The alignment issue is being resolved now and should be in production by 
2020 (for vehicles, that pretty fast work ;) ). (using extra magnetic 
signals for guidance purposes).
The inductors would actually have to be flush-mount, again this is being 
resolved now.

Agree that battery capacity and political pressure make this unlikely.

The most likely area for this to succeed would be taxi stands - 
especially at airports.  Unless, of course, the likes of Uber kills the 
taxi system.


As for the inductive charging on the freeway, there are some very good 
experiments for this now. This would most likely be used by heavy 
vehicles as an assist up steep hills or long climbs (think going up the 
grapevine).


Cheers!

On 10/12/15 8:34 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

I just have a hard time imagining the sensibility behind this.
- battery capacity is increasing, diminishing he need for "mini 
charging",

- the cost could be enormous, as Peter mentions,
- nearly impossible alignment as drivers have different sized cars and 
may have different inductor mount locations
- each car in the queue would need a separate inductor installed in 
the pavement
- inductors would have to be relatively close to the ground and 
susceptible to damage while driving

- political pressure and resistance to change are likely to be strong
- range extension is not needed as much for local driving as for long 
distance driving


Of course, if we installed inductive charging on freeways and major 
arterials, perhaps it could succeed.  Only small batteries would be 
needed.  But this seems just as unlikely to me.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Peter C. Thompson via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 12-Oct-15 8:16:23 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to learn to love stoplights and your electric car

The standards for this "semi-dynamic" charging have not seriously 
begun.  We are only working on static charging right now.  Of course, 
there are experiments to test out dynamic and semi-dynamic charging, 
there isn't anything set up yet for the command


The other thing this article oddly leaves out is the cost. Adding in 
inductive charging systems to stop lights is not going to be cheap. 
So this leads to the really important question: who's gonna pay for 
this? :)


Cheers, Peter

On 10/12/15 12:45 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


http://muscatinejournal.com/news/opinion/how-to-learn-to-love-stoplights-and-your-electric-car/article_78d9def2-327e-5785-b676-54f93da923af.html 


How to learn to love stoplights and your electric car
[20151002] • Llewellyn King

Ever thought you’d be pleased to wait at a stoplight?

Well, the day is coming when the stoplight may also be a refueling 
point for
your electric car. It won’t be the key point, but it might give your 
car a

little boost until you get home, or to your parking garage or the
supermarket.

Electric cars are much in the news these days, as the big automakers 
like
Mercedes and General Motors try to catch up with the space, and 
notoriety,

that Elon Musk and his Tesla Motors occupy.

But the bugaboo for electric cars, whether they are the 
super-refined Tesla

or the more utilitarian Nissan Leaf, is charging. Batteries are getting
better all the time, but they still need frequent charging. You 
wouldn’t
want to try to go any distance without planning ahead for where you 
can plug

in, whether it’s a high-speed, high-voltage charging station or a wire
coming out of a kitchen window, which would need about eight hours 
to get

you ready to speed off with that legendary electric car acceleration.

Electric cars have been the dream of automakers since the first 
cars, some
of which were electric, but the limits of lead-acid batteries doomed 
them to
very narrow uses. When I lived in Britain, milk delivery vehicles, 
called
milk floats, were electric; and Harrods, the great London department 
store,

used electric delivery vans for decades. In this case the slow-moving,
use-specific and very distinctive vehicles possibly were as much for
advertising as anything else. Customers wanted to have them pull up 
at their
homes, suggesting that they could afford the substantial prices that 
are

still part of the mystique of Harrods.

Over the decades, many new battery types have been tried, including 
some
very far-out ideas like the aluminum-air battery. But the best, so 
far, is
the lithium ion battery, a version of which you have in your cell 
phone or
your computer, and which powers both pure electric cars and the 
electric

component of hybrids such as the Toyota Prius.

But there’s still the pesky issue of charging. A Nissan Leaf has a 
range of
about 100 miles, and a Tesla Model S Performance car’s range is 265 
miles.
The test comes on a cold, wet night when you’re throwing everything 
at the
electric system in addition to propulsion. Get it wrong and your 
only way

home is by tow truc

Re: [EVDL] How to learn to love stoplights and your electric car

2015-10-12 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

The standards for this "semi-dynamic" charging have not seriously
begun. We are only working on static charging right now. Of course,
there are experiments to test out dynamic and semi-dynamic charging,
there isn't anything set up yet for the command

The other thing this article oddly leaves out is the cost. Adding in
inductive charging systems to stop lights is not going to be cheap. So
this leads to the really important question: who's gonna pay for this? :)

Cheers, Peter

On 10/12/15 12:45 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

http://muscatinejournal.com/news/opinion/how-to-learn-to-love-stoplights-and-your-electric-car/article_78d9def2-327e-5785-b676-54f93da923af.html
How to learn to love stoplights and your electric car
[20151002] • Llewellyn King

Ever thought you’d be pleased to wait at a stoplight?

Well, the day is coming when the stoplight may also be a refueling point for
your electric car. It won’t be the key point, but it might give your car a
little boost until you get home, or to your parking garage or the
supermarket.

Electric cars are much in the news these days, as the big automakers like
Mercedes and General Motors try to catch up with the space, and notoriety,
that Elon Musk and his Tesla Motors occupy.

But the bugaboo for electric cars, whether they are the super-refined Tesla
or the more utilitarian Nissan Leaf, is charging. Batteries are getting
better all the time, but they still need frequent charging. You wouldn’t
want to try to go any distance without planning ahead for where you can plug
in, whether it’s a high-speed, high-voltage charging station or a wire
coming out of a kitchen window, which would need about eight hours to get
you ready to speed off with that legendary electric car acceleration.

Electric cars have been the dream of automakers since the first cars, some
of which were electric, but the limits of lead-acid batteries doomed them to
very narrow uses. When I lived in Britain, milk delivery vehicles, called
milk floats, were electric; and Harrods, the great London department store,
used electric delivery vans for decades. In this case the slow-moving,
use-specific and very distinctive vehicles possibly were as much for
advertising as anything else. Customers wanted to have them pull up at their
homes, suggesting that they could afford the substantial prices that are
still part of the mystique of Harrods.

Over the decades, many new battery types have been tried, including some
very far-out ideas like the aluminum-air battery. But the best, so far, is
the lithium ion battery, a version of which you have in your cell phone or
your computer, and which powers both pure electric cars and the electric
component of hybrids such as the Toyota Prius.

But there’s still the pesky issue of charging. A Nissan Leaf has a range of
about 100 miles, and a Tesla Model S Performance car’s range is 265 miles.
The test comes on a cold, wet night when you’re throwing everything at the
electric system in addition to propulsion. Get it wrong and your only way
home is by tow truck.

But the technology is on the way. The limits, as in so many things, are not
on the technology, but the institutions that will bring it to market. Anyone
want to make a business of car charging?

The technology, where the power is delivered by magnetic field without a
direct connection to the wires, is called induction charging. You probably
use it if you have an electric toothbrush, or a phone that charges in a
cradle. Scaled up, it can be used to charge cars without a hard wire: a car,
or other vehicle, drives over a plate in a parking lot or at a stoplight in
the road and, miraculously, charging begins.

The Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden,
Colo., is working on induction charging; and in South Korea, the technology
already is in use for buses. The South Koran buses charge, among other
places on their routes, at bus stops. While the bus is loading passengers,
it is also fueling. Very cool.

Nikola Tesla, after whom the car is named, was the Serbian-American genius
who briefly worked with Thomas Edison before selling several patent rights,
including those to his alternating-current machinery, to George
Westinghouse. Tesla claimed he’d found a way of distributing electricity
without wires. But how he’d planned to do this remains one of science’s
biggest mysteries because he left no plans when he died in 1943.

It is fitting that Tesla, in some small way, may be vindicated as electric
vehicles named for him could be among the early beneficiaries of wireless
charging.
[© muscatinejournal.com]

Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

2015-10-11 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 10/11/15 6:32 AM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

On 10/11/2015 08:03 AM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:
So I find myself rather embarrassingly ill-equipped to advise my 
employer
about installing EVSE stations.  I can get to work and back OK if I 
drive

conscientiously, but not during winter.  An EVSE at work would be very
handy.  There are some receptive ears at work and there is a substantial
parking lot expansion coming up, so I convinced them to at least plan 
for
getting some power out there.  And I, being the closest thing they 
have to

an expert on EVSE, would get back to them with my recommendations.


Am I beating Robert to the punch here?

The really big question is whether your employer will foot the 
electric costs.  If so, a multitude of 120vac connections are likely 
to be of FAR more use than a few commercial EVSEs.  I suggest working 
up installation and operating costs of each.  With a multitude of 
120vac connections you remove all contention for the charge 
positions.  And the added range will likely suit most everyone; 
charging at ~1kw will add 3-4 mph.  30+ miles for a work shift.


The SOLE advantage of a commercial EVSE is the ability to shift 
electric costs to the user.  Tesla owners FAR prefer RV outlets which 
can supply 40 amps vs the typical 30 amps (or less) from a commercial 
EVSE.  So, if your employer is willing to pay for the electricity, I 
would recommend one or two RV panels and MANY 120vac outlets.


For what its worth, Qualcomm has put in about 200 120vac connections in 
their various garages (and planning lots more).  There are some L2 
sprinkled about as well. In order to save the A/C, they put these 
connections in areas where there will NEVER be sunshine (a serious 
consideration in San Diego). This means, the EVs can do the slow charge 
during the day, stay cool, and allow the driver to go home with minimal 
A/C usage.


For your situation, if the areas were kept somewhat warm (compared to 
being outside in the wind and snow), that would also reduce the need for 
heavy heater usage (during winter).


Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Re: [SPAM?] Re: Besot helmetless AZ e-cyclist lost-balance, fell & fatally struck head

2015-09-26 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

No different than a private airplane. If one crashes it is big, big
news. If a car crashes, who cares?

I can't wait for the news droids to go nuts when an electric airplane
crashes. *sigh*

Cheers!

On 9/26/15 5:58 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

I'm not saying that is the way it should be, but it is the way it is.

On September 26, 2015 6:10:54 PM MDT, Mike Nickerson via EV
wrote:

Yes. I remember the story about someone drinking heavily and wrapping
a Tesla around a tree. I think it was in Mexico. Made news in the
U.S.

Unfortunately, EVe can make the news all sorts of ways.

Mike

On September 26, 2015 12:48:58 PM MDT, lektwik via EV
wrote:

Besot.

Haven't heard that used in years :-)

Just curious...
If someone got killed while drunk driving and happened to be driving a
Tesla or other electric car would that make it EV related news?

On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 1:20 AM, brucedp5 via EV
wrote:

http://tucson.com/news/blogs/police-beat/cyclist-falls-off-bike-and-dies-in-hospital/article_df34ea82-6334-11e5-9e0f-6fb3b34f926a.html

Cyclist falls off bike and dies in hospital
[20150924] • Carmen Duarte

A cyclist who fell off his electric-powered bicycle died Wednesday

Banner-University Medical Center Tucson, police said.

The cyclist was identified as Joseph Brzuchalski, 49, said Sgt. Pete

Dugan,

a Tucson Police Department spokesman. He said alcohol appears to

have

been

a
factor in the crash.

On Monday at about 5:30 p.m., officers responded to South Fourth

Avenue and

East Ninth Street for a report of an injured cyclist in the road,

said

Dugan.

Officers found out that the man had fallen off his bicycle. Tucson

Fire

Department paramedics treated the man and took him to the hospital

with

life-threatening injuries.

During the investigation, police learned that the crash was captured

video by a city streetcar, which was traveling south on Fourth

Avenue

about

half a block away from the cyclist, Dugan said.

The video showed that the cyclist was originally heading east on

Eighth

Street and then turned south on to Fourth Avenue. He was traveling

along

the
western curb area and no vehicles were in the road. He also did not

enter

into the rail tracks, said Dugan.

The cyclist was seen adjusting his backpack, which appeared to cause

him to

lose his balance. He then fell to the ground where he struck his

head. He

was not wearing a helmet, said Dugan.

As of January, there have been 42 traffic fatalities in the city,

compared

to 23 at this time last year, according to police statistics.
[© 2015 Arizona Daily Star]

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2015/09/24/tucson-man-dies-after-falling-from-electric-powered-bike/

Tucson Man Dies After Falling From Electric Powered Bike
ADI News Services September 24, 2015

[image

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/4th-8th.png

]

On September 21, 2015 at approximately 5:30 p.m., Tucson Police

Department

officers responded to the area of South 4th Avenue and East 9th

Street for

a
report of an injured cyclist, 49-year-old Joseph Brzuchalski, who

had

fallen
off of an electric powered bicycle.

Tucson Fire responded to the scene and immediately transported Mr.
Brzuchalski to Banner University Medical Center with life

threatening

injuries.

During the investigation it was revealed that the collision was

captured on

video by a Sunlink rail vehicle. The Sunlink vehicle was traveling
southbound on 4th Avenue about a half a block away from Mr.

Brzuchalski.

The
video showed that Mr. Brzuchalski was originally eastbound on 8th

Street

and
then turned southbound on to 4th Avenue. He was traveling along the

western

curb area with no vehicles in the roadway and did not enter into the

rail

tracks.

Mr. Brzuchalski was seen adjusting his backpack, which appeared to

cause

him
to lose his balance. Mr. Brzuchalski then fell to the ground where

struck
his head. He was not wearing a helmet.

On September 23, 2015 Mr. Brzuchalski succumbed to his injuries and

was

pronounced deceased at Banner University Medical Center. Alcohol

appears to

have been a factor in the collision.
[© arizonadailyindependent.com]

For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/

{brucedp.150m.com}

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View this message in context:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Besot-helmetless-AZ-e-cyclist-lost-balance-fell-fatally-struck-head-tp4677781.html

Re: [EVDL] hub motor cooling ac motor

2015-09-10 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I bolted a fan directly on my air-cooled AC motor, and that helped, but 
in this case, it will need a directed airflow to help cool the motor.  
If that doesn't help enough, insert a misting nozzle into the airflow.


However, before doing anything drastic, attach a digital thermometer to 
the motor and find out exactly how hot it is getting, and then compare 
that to the max value from the manual.


Cheers, Peter

On 9/10/15 7:44 PM, Bill Dube via EV wrote:
A very thin coat of flat black paint might help to keep it cooler, if 
it isn't already black.


Bill D.

On 9/9/2015 4:41 PM, ken via EV wrote:
  When hill climbing roads at 25 mph and 40 amps, which it draws same 
amps

at 40 mph on the flat .  on my 3 kw wheel, it starts heating up to the
point of be not touchable . I thought of drilling a very small hole 1/8
inch near the axle and fill the inside maybe 25% . but don't know what
kind of oil that'd not hurt wrirng etc. or would a high wattage motor
help ?

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[EVDL] Wireless Power Transfer - 93 to 95% efficiency

2015-09-09 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Folks,

Here is an article on one of my competitors showing their technology at 
IAA.  They are claiming 93 to 95% efficiency.


http://powerpulse.net/story.php?storyID=32922

(Sorry about all the ads on powerpulse, but I couldn't find a better 
source for the story).


Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Re: [SPAM?] Re: EVs Here, There and Everywhere

2015-08-30 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Mike,

I used to run an EV-Builders club at my work.  We had a few regulars, 
and a lot of interest, but then the production EVs came along, and it 
was back to the few regulars only. I disbanded the club last year due to 
lack of interest.


Likewise, for Earth-day, we had about 4 EV conversions at first, and 
then lately it is all production EVs.


Personally, I think this is a Good Thing.  It means that production EVs 
are becoming commonplace, and that our message has made it into the mass 
market.


This does not mean that no one is doing conversions anymore - not by a 
long shot.  Take a look at www.DIYElectricCar.com.  They are getting new 
projects all the time!


As for the shows at work, well, I've stopped showing mine, as it looks 
really shabby against the Tesla and BMW.  ;_;  Plus I don't have air 
conditioning or airbags or ABS...  (maybe the next one will)  :)


Cheers!
Peter

On 8/30/15 6:46 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

I put on an Alternative Vehicle show at my employer each year.  At first, it 
was all conversions.  In the last couple years, it has become about 1/3 
conversions and 2/3 production EVs.  Some of the engineers have specifically 
commented that they would like to see more conversions.  That is hard when they 
are being taken out of service or moving out of the valley and few people are 
building new ones.

Mike


On August 30, 2015 6:15:02 PM MDT, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
wrote:

Sounds like Burned EVangelist Syndrome. It is not about you or your
EV,
people who behave like that *are* the problem, so don't take their
monkey,
it is not your problem.
Please don't get discouraged from talking about your EV to others
because a few are having a problem...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


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  Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of tomw via EV
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 9:19 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Re: EVs Here, There and Everywhere

/I was a little offended when Bruce implied Tesla owners are snobby. I
am certainly not nor or other Tesla owning EVDLers.../

A few years ago I was participating in the local club's display of EVs.
I stepped up to two Tesla S owners talking just as one asked the other
if he had ever dropped down from a local mountain summit. He had not.
I chimed in that I had, and they gave me a look of disdain and turned
away.  Last year I was at a get together with some people I used to
work with.  A VP was proudly discussing his Tesla S when a friend
mentioned my converted EV.
Again the look of disdain, that my friend would even mention such a
vehicle in the same conversation.  Not all are that haughty, I know a
couple who are not, but many more I have met are.  Some Leaf owners
similarly look down on converted vehicles as not real EVs.  When I
mentioned I had a converted car to a new local club member he asked
disdainfully, What's it got, lead acid batteries? with the seeming
implication it was useless.  When I explained it had lithium cells and
about the same range as a Leaf, he started talking to another Leaf
owner nearby to change the subject.

My impression is that the new manufactured EV owners like to think they
are the avant-guarde.  The above club member referred to himself as a
pioneer.
All those earlier EVs don't count, even though some commuted daily for
years in those lead acid vehicles, showed that limited range electric
vehicles could be very useful, and provided quite a bit of learning.

If that's what it takes to get people to buy EVs, that's fine.  I just
don't feel like attempting to interact with them anymore. I no longer
participate in the local EV club, and if someone asks if my car is
electric, I simply respond yes, and continue on about my business.






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Re: [EVDL] self driving cars

2015-04-08 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Hi Mike,

I think you are absolutely correct. There are a LOT of people and
companies heavily invested in the V2V communication, specifically for
the use cases you describe below. 802.11p (aka DSRC) is an international
standard working towards this. Naturally, since this is a standard, it
is going quite slowly (in silicon valley terms, I think it would be
glacial). However, it would be shortsighted to not see this as an
opportunity to get in front of this wave, rather than paddle really hard
to catch up.

I'm following this from the EV charging side (wireless EV charging to be
more precise), and the V2V is starting to take off. I believe TestFests
for this will take place next year, but there are no solid plans yet.

As for me, I would love to have a SDC. Especially on the days when I'm
tired, or cranky, or just want to relax on the way home. There will be
times when I would want to drive, but for the most part, the commute is
not a time when I would want to play.

Cheers, Peter

On 4/8/15 11:56 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

I think the discussion on self driving cars here is very short sighted. I
think it will be the most exciting development in personal transportation over
the next 20 years. I think the situation will develop like this:

Initially, the cars will just emulate humans that are good drivers. They will
be polite, paying attention, following the rules, and have faster reactions
than humans. They will slow down when traffic slows, they will stop at stop
signs, etc. Since they are paying attention all the time, that automatically
puts them in the top 50% of drivers. Their biggest challenge will be dodging
the crazy humans around them. During this time, they will also have to figure
out where the road is, when completely covered with snow. That's a challenge
for humans sometimes.

As the number of self driving cars increases, their environment will become
more predictable.

Eventually, there will be a back channel wireless communication system that
lets the cars contact the other vehicles in the area. That is when things get
really interesting. If a car doesn't answer back to inquiries, it must be
human driven and the cars will leave it a larger margin of space for
unpredictable actions, and follow human driving rules. If all cars are self
driving, they can operate by different rules. For example:

- On a green light, all cars rollout together. No need to wait for the car
ahead. Each car knows when they will all roll.
- Approaching a 4 way stop, the cars negotiate crossing order ahead of time
and go through without stopping.
- Merging from 3 lanes down to 2 can be done efficiently, without all the
backups, delays and jockeying that happens now.
- Cars up ahead on the road can warn following cars that a deer has been
spotted. That allows them to start adjusting before their sensors detect it.

I am sure this is just scratching the surface. Imagine how things could change
when every car is in contact with the others, and can count on full cooperation
to do as expected.

Mike

On April 6, 2015 12:09:33 PM MDT, Electric Blue auto convertions via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot
gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 18 wing-motor NASA electric aircraft concept r:200mi

2015-03-22 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 3/22/15 9:42 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

brucedp5 via EV wrote:
http://www.itproportal.com/2015/03/17/nasa-testing-electric-aircraft-wacky-design-concept/ 


NASA testing an all electric aircraft with wacky design concept


Why does the author feel the need to put wacky in the title? The 
wing in question looks very normal, and the range of 200 miles in fact 
quite reasonable for an early test model.



Because it is different, and that scares him.

Seriously, though, this is a very smart idea. You can pitch the props 
different for the different parts of the wing, you can even have some of 
the motors turn off entirely and have the prop feather away.  Being able 
to use different power levels means the wings will be MUCH more 
difficult to stall.


This idea has been thoroughly discussed on some of the airplane forums I 
read, and the consensus is that if they can work out the power problem 
(same problem we face with EVs), then this will work out really well.


Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Calling all owners of cheap Chinese EV's? (the Jonway Massimo / Mullen 100e / Atomic-EV / etc)

2015-03-06 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I wish you luck.

I've not had a lot of luck with my chinese controller. It *is* possible
to get info on the controller, but only if you can find someone at one
of the companies that sells the parts. As an aside, I *was* able to get
a CD with some update software, but it was a major struggle to find, and
I still haven't been able to use it due to other issues (extreme noise
on the 12v system).

If I see something on this, I'll be sure to let you know.

Cheers, Peter

On 3/6/15 6:52 PM, Steve Ballantyne via EV wrote:

I bought myself a big expensive toy a few weeks ago. It's a Jonway
Massimo MSE-220. This is also being sold as a Mullen Motors e100, or
an Atomic-EV, or probably a dozen other names. This car is being
cranked out in mass numbers over in China, and begun to show up here.
Only problem is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot written on
them. I was given a manual with mine from www.jonwayauto.com which
looks to have been translated from Mandarin to English using an online
translator (it's rough readin'). I am working on correcting all of
the mistakes, and I will be publishing that soon (to somewhere).

I have to assume that there is someone else out there that has one of
these. And is looking for 'friends' to share information with.

For instance - I would like to try to find a way to lift the speed
restrictions on my controller. But it's an unmarked Chinese number
and I can't find anything online about it. I tore my controller out
and opened it up today and I don't see any easy way to lift the
restrictions. There is a strange 10 pin DIN port on the side, which I
would think might be a serial interface. But then again it may be for
accessories, service troubleshooting, etc.

Here are some pictures I took today:
https://plus.google.com/photos/100430129794260842281/albums/6122935252456685905?authkey=CLSS8ZD567rmZQ
Perhaps if any of you out there have worked on something similar, you
can offer some advice.

If you also own one of these, or you have a friend who does, put them
in touch with me. We need a fan club!

Steve Ballantyne
Network Engineer
MCSE/MCDST; Novell CLA; LPIC-1; CTT+; A+; Network+; Linux+; Server+;
I-Net+; Security+; SonicWALL CSSA
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Re: [EVDL] Help! - Double motor failure!

2015-02-28 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Hi Dan,

The only way I can think to do this is to build it yourself with an
Arduino or something similar.

This would involve an Arduino board, an ADC shield, and a LCD display.
I've got something similar that I used for testing my conversion.

Feel free to contact me offline if you are interested in more details.

Cheers, Peter

On 2/28/15 5:14 AM, Dan Baker via EV wrote:

Does anyone know of a Ammeter kit that could read from 3 different shunts?
I would like to have one at the blower, the drive motor and total coming
off where the two battery packs meet. I guess I could get away with two if
there was something that could measure both motor shunts simultaneously? If
not could I just hook up a two or 3 way switch and flip between them to see
output?

Thanks,
Dan

On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 7:41 PM, David Nelson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 7:13 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Will a CA handle that kind of current? I thought it was for e-bike level
currents. Or can you put a bigger shunt on it, maybe a 10x or 100x?

There are different versions of the CA. He just needs the one which
uses an external shunt. I've been using one on my Gizmo for several
years now and IIRC, the creator mentioned it being used on the
Killacycle. It is a great little device since it is powered entirely
from the pack.

--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://www.levforum.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Weirdest-Sexy L3 EVSE Ad @FamilyMart.jp (v)

2015-02-27 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Family Mart is really, really big in Japan.  Lawson's and 7-11 are about 
as big.  I'm not sure of the market share, but from what I saw there, 
those are the big three.


The other thing to remember is that parking in Japan is really 
difficult.  Worse that NYC from what I've been told.  O_O


Cheers, Peter

On 2/27/15 12:23 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

I have not been to Japan,
but in Taiwan the Family Mart can be found at every other street corner,
they are more ubiquitous than 7-11, so if they have DC-quick charging at
many of their locations, that is *huge*!
Note that often Family Mart type stores sell a limited selection of hot meals
besides some groceries and decent coffee so many workers stop by these 
convenience stores for a quick meal.
DC quick charging makes sense in such a situation.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
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message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:23 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Weirdest-Sexy L3 EVSE Ad @FamilyMart.jp (v)



% Ultraman-monster  Chesticle-model  CHAdeMO-coupler! Oh My! %

https://transportevolved.com/2015/02/24/japanese-ad-for-electric-car-rapid-charging-at-familymart-is-the-weirdest-tv-ad-weve-ever-seen/
Japanese Ad for Electric Car Rapid Charging at FamilyMart is the Weirdest TV Ad 
We’ve Ever Seen February 24, 2015 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield  ht2 Chelsea Sexton

[images
https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-24-at-15.29.12-e1424800117484-580x318.png?3786b3
The TV ad features a monster and a supermodel…

https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-24-at-15.27.49-e1424800164133-580x310.png?3786b3
Theres a Nissan LEAF and music too.


video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk6Lqjb7xOQ
[Japanesetranslate.googleEnglish]
Jer King band  love Shinozaki charging Love Story
Family Mart (FamilyMart) Feb 23, 2015
In Family Mart to set up a for electric vehicles (EV · PHEV) fast charger, 
Did you know are providing a service?
More to many customers the electric car and rapid charger for electric 
vehicles.

To help you feel familiar, a group of Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. cooperation, Right now it is 
being carried out Family Mart de charge campaign.

The Eleking Ya is a popular monster of Ultraman series Please see the original 
movie that love's Shinozaki of popular idol starring!
http://www.family.co.jp/campaign/charge/open/
]

Forget the Chevrolet Volt dance. Forget the hugging Polar Bears from the Nissan 
LEAF’s first TV Ad. And forget those mischievous anthropomorphic Kia Soul 
Hamsters in the Kia Soul EV ads.

They’re all pretty tame when compared with the latest at from Japanese grocery 
store chain FamilyMart, which manages to combine a popular TV monster with 
Japanese gravure idol Ai Shinozaki and a Nissan LEAF electric car. It’s meant 
to advertise the fact that FamilyMart is the leading provider of store-based 
Rapid DC quick charging for electric car customers in Japan.

We’re going to let you watch the ad first — then explain what it’s all about.

Those familiar with Japanese culture will recognise the non-human as Eleking, 
the fictional alien electric-eel-like kaiju (strange creature) from the 
tokusatsu (special effect) TV series Ultraseven. Created way back in
1967 by Eiji Tsuburaya, the series was a followup to the Ultraman series, a 
live-action, special-effects show. Both feature the Science Special Search 
Party, whose job it is to protect the earth from alien invasion and rampaging 
monsters, primarily in human guise. But when the alien threat is too much, one 
of the team inevitebly activates the “Beta Capsule,” a powerful artifact which 
transforms them into a super-humanaoid giant from space known as Ultraman. And 
in the best TV tradition, Ultraman always saves the day.

Eleking is one of Ultraman’s many nemeses, and has come back again and again to 
fight against him in various reincarnations of the series since its 1960s 
inception.

With us so far? Good.

The woman in the ad meanwhile is Ai Shinozaki, a famous Japanese ‘gravure idol’ 
(model) and singer. A member of the AeLL, a music idol group, she’s instantly 
recognisable to anyone who follows Japanese idol group culture.

Those familiar with Japanese culture will recognise the non-human as Eleking, 
the fictional alien electric-eel-like kaiju (strange creature) from the 
tokusatsu (special effect) TV series Ultraseven. Created way back

Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful practical solar vehicle.

2015-02-14 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Completely agree with this approach, with one addition:  3D modeling 
software.


Design your vehicle and test it before you build it.  EAA can help you 
there as well.


Cheers!
Peter

On 2/14/15 12:00 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

My father has (a long time ago) built several custom windsurf boards
with that method of shaping a light foam core and then skinning it with
glassfiber or Kevlar embedded in thin epoxy layers. It is even user-repairable,
although never as beautiful as before.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
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message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:50 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What is needed to build a successful  practical solar 
vehicle.

EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

This is a big assignment.  We're talking about a 900lb 2-passenger (or
is it
4-passenger?) vehicle that reportedly runs on 55Wh/mi.  That's about
2.5 to
3 times my ebike's energy use, but the Stella weighs in at 18 times
the bike's mass!  It's also rolling on 4 wheels instead of 2.  I  know
a car is more aerodynamic than a bike, but that's going to require
some mighty skillful tweaking.

Here's how I would approach it:

First, you need to build it more like an airplane than a car. Join the other 
EAA (the Experimental Aircraft Association), and learn how they build modern 
high-performance airplanes.

For example, Burt Rutan is a genius at building high performance aircraft with techniques 
that can easily be done by a hobbyist. He builds structures out of styrafoam, then 
skins it with epoxy and cloth (fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar, depending 
the strength and flexibility needed in each area).

Second, look for a successful model, and copy it. It could be Stella, but it 
depends on a lot of very expensive parts. The Swiss Twike is another 
possibility, though it's also expensive. Axel Krause of Brusa with the 
mini-Evergreen EV also comes to mind. An even older example is Bob McKee's 
Sundancer EV.

Third, KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Follow the lead of people like Bob Rice, 
Dave Cloud, and Jerry Dycus, and build your first prototype
*really* simple and basic, just to get the hang of it. Bolted angle iron, not 
aircraft welded chrome-moly tubing. Plywood, not carbon fiber.
Get it to work first; then set about improving it.

--
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which 
hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.
-- Carl Sagan
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net 
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Re: [EVDL] Portable EVSE: Turning over a new Leaf...

2014-12-14 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

On 12/14/14, 1:51 PM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Mark Abramowitz ma...@enviropolicy.com
wrote:

On Dec 14, 2014, at 6:24 AM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

Honda in
particular sees itself as an engine company. EVs are seen as a threat to
the status quo.

Where can I find that information?

I've never seen it addressed directly as a main topic of discussion, but
throughout my decades of following the auto industry it has been referenced
countless times
from a broad variety of sources
. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda, comes this typical remark:

Honda, despite being known as an engine company,
... And this:

Honda has been the
...
world's largest manufacturer of internal combustion engines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine measured by
volume, producing more than 14 million internal combustion engines each
year.

From *The Causes of Structural Unemployment...* by Thomas Janoski, while
discussing Toyota he adds this casual aside:

... the company strategy is long-term and focused on automobiles (unlike
Honda, which sees itself as an engine company doing automobiles, lawn
mowers, jet engines and other products).

From
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/2014-honda-accord-plug-hybrid-and-2014-2014-fit-ev-help-us-see-where-electric-car-market-going
comes this toss-off:
Honda always prided itself as being a motor company.

From *Honda: an American Success Story...* by Robert Shook,
Honda is neither an automobile nor a motorcycle company, but an engine
company
.

From an article in the *Reading Eagle* newspaper on Honda's 50th
anniverwsary, Yet Honda has always considered itself first and foremost as
an engine company.

These were just from a single Google search. I could go on ad nauseum, but
you get the idea.

Chris

Interesting. Yet they are also very involved with standards for
electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids. I see them all the time in our
groups that deal with EV charging. I suspect they are trying to branch out.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] Portable EVSE: Turning over a new Leaf...

2014-12-14 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

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Re: [EVDL] Portable EVSE: Turning over a new Leaf...

2014-12-14 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 12/14/14, 2:17 PM, Chris Tromley wrote:
On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 5:09 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV 
ev@lists.evdl.org mailto:ev@lists.evdl.orgwrote:


Interesting. Yet they are also very involved with
standards for electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids.  I
see them all the time in our groups that deal with EV
charging.  I suspect they are trying to branch out.


Cheers, Peter


 Standards boards are a whole different animal.  The big players 
always take a seat on standards boards to protect their interests.  
This applies to any industry.
Shaping the standards means you have a shot at keeping them from 
hurting your place in the market.  Not being there means your 
competitors who are will

 write them to your disadvantage.

Chris

Yup, valid point.

They also provide a view into their RD.  Since they have several active 
project dealing with EVs and PHEVs, I take it that they are serious 
about that particular market.


Cheers!

(sorry about the HTML)
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Re: [EVDL] DC-DC Cooling

2014-10-07 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 10/7/14, 9:02 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On Tue Oct 07 19:05:39 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

From: John Lussmyer via EV ev@lists.evdl.org

... when I'm running 40A continuous load...

Wow, what the heck are you running? That seems like a very high load, even with 
lights on.

Are you using 12V resistance heating?

No

Note this is a F250 truck.  So, just sitting with the ignition on runs:
Cooling blower for motors, Power steering pump, along with the usual 12v draw 
of the truck.
Then I add Headlights, Heater Blower, Windshield Wipers, Stereo.
There is also the occaisional 40A draw from the Brake Vacuum Pump.

Not much load to shed.



Ah, I think you pointed out the issue:  the brake vacuum pump.

Here is what I suggest:  get a hand-held IR temperature measurement 
device, and then while everything is running (include the vacuum pump) 
check for heat on the modules. Also, measure the total current when 
everything is running. I looked at a lot of Vicor bricks, and they are 
good up until you get near 90% max - then they heat up.


Good luck!  Peter
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Re: [EVDL] DC-DC Cooling

2014-10-06 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Have you measured the temp on any of the units?  It is possible that one 
of the bricks is not behaving.  Failing that, you might want to redo the 
heatsink with some serious extruded aluminum.


Cheers!

On 10/6/14, 4:21 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

I think I'm going to have to figure out how to water cool my DC-DC.
I built this one using 4 Vicor 20A bricks to get a 80A capable unit.
It all fits on the back of a 6 square 2 thick heatsink with a 6 fan on it.
I'm noticing that when I'm running 40A continuous load, the output starts 
becoming erratic.  Ther fan on the heatsink doesn't seem to be enough when I'm 
drawing a lot of 12V power. (blower, lights, brakes, etc..)

--
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Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)

2014-10-05 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Sadly, due to my exposure to OEM representatives  (auto makers), I can 
safely say that they will cut every penny out where they can.  For 
example, I was talking to one standards representative (I won't say the 
company name, as it is pretty much the same everywhere), and they could 
not support TLS on their computers and would not upgrade the computer 
until there was a strong need. The computer would be dealing with 
billing for the power used to charge the vehicle!!!


Sheesh.

On 10/5/14, 8:54 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

Back when cpu cycles were expensive, automakers mostly used the minimum
amount of processor power necessary to control emissions and air bags.  As
memory and cpus got to where they cost pennies, they realized that they
could control a lot more with them.  They could make the dome light fade in
and out.  They could keep people from buying cheaper used parts.  They could
prove that when the wreck happened, the driver had his foot on the
accelerator, not the brake.  They could shut down the vehicle if the owner
didn't do what the purchase or lease agreement stipulated.

As we're seeing in almost every other area where computers are involved -
which is just about everywhere - Moore's law has turned out to be the
proverbial double-edged sword.

But that's another discussion for another list, I suppose.

For the purposes of this list, let's just say that maybe some EV converters
have other reasons to wear an EV grin besides it's clean and quiet, and it
passes all the gas stations.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Under Body Pan

2014-09-18 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Hi Buddy,

I actually installed an air dam to improve the airflow. I also added
some air guides on the side of the car to help direct airflow around the
passenger compartment.

It really depends on the aerodynamics of your car as to what would
improve it. I got lucky in that a professor did a study on the Porsche
914, and showed where to improve the car. Wheel covers provide a huge
improvement, BTW - more than fender skirts.

Cheers, Peter

On 9/18/14, 7:37 AM, Buddy Mills via EV wrote:

Has anyone else installed a body pan for aerodynamics? I just put one under
my electercel front to back, minus a 9 for a fan intake. .064 Sheet
aluminum with some 1 square tube under the motor bay for support. After
doing my regular drive of 84 miles round trip several times it seems to
getting 3% to 6% increase in mileage at ~50mph avg. I am thinking fender
skirts on the rear next.

Buddy Mills

mailto:buddymi...@cox.net buddymi...@cox.net

Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887 http://www.evalbum.com/2887

Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing this
email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either fictional
or greatly exaggerated.

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Re: [EVDL] Pack voltage

2014-09-13 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Which BMS do you have?  What sorts of alarms has it given?

If there have been no alarms, then it is most likely a loose 
connection.  Try re-torqueing all of your battery connections.


You can also measure all of the cells after a long drive - they should 
all be very close to each other in terms of voltage.  If there is one or 
two that are lower, they are probably weak cells.


For example, after an 18 mile drive, I had almost all cells at 3.29v, 
and one a 2.91v.  That 2.91v cell was definitely bad - but this was 
after 6 years of driving.


Cheers, Peter

On 9/13/14, 5:31 PM, Sam Shepherd via EV wrote:

I have BMS and they are Lithijm and the are less than a year old.

On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:


On 09/13/2014 07:03 PM, Sam Shepherd via EV wrote:


Would anyone have ant thoughts as to why my pack voltage starting out
with 160.8 volts on the dial would drop to 140 volts on a mild pull?
It has just started doing this.
I didck. the cell voltage of each cell with no real diferences.


If lithium, near the end of the capacity or near the end of life (reduced
capacity).  If lithium, do you have BMS?   Or, poor connections.
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Re: [EVDL] Is your EV doing enough?

2014-08-16 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


On 8/16/14, 5:44 AM, Paul Wujek via EV wrote:


On 14-08-16 12:50 AM, Mike Scott via EV wrote:

I just got the 2014 though, with the tiny
little badge...
If you really want the bigger badge you can probably go to the dealer 
and order one.
Or, get some custom made vinyl that screams ELECTRIC, as I did. I'll be 
putting it on once I fix the paint.  :)

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Re: [EVDL] Flooded lead-acid ooopsie and how to correct best?

2014-08-12 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Another option is to add in an automatic water refill system, similar to 
this: http://www.aquapro.net/overview_what.html


Cheers!

On 8/12/14, 10:54 AM, Roland via EV wrote:

Just type in your search engine:  Flip Top Battery Vent Caps

No need to remove any battery caps.  Just open the top and water.

Roland
   - Original Message -
   From: Jay Summet via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org
   To: Roger Stocktonmailto:rstock...@delta-q.com ; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
Listmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org
   Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:44 AM
   Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded lead-acid ooopsie and how to correct best?


   -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
   Hash: SHA1



   On 08/11/2014 04:11 PM, Roger Stockton via EV wrote:

Most likely a mechanical issue with the ganged caps. Given that you
 water infrequently, you might want to check with your dealer to
see if they will supply you with individual caps.  The individual
caps tend to seal the best, and I believe are available upon
request for little or no charge (unless your dealer just can't be
bothered to get them for you).
   

   I've used both individual caps and ganged caps, and I much prefer the
   ganged caps. You don't realize how MANY caps there are until you have to
   unscrew and re-screw them individually...

   Plus, it is easier to set down / pick up / not drop a set of 3 than
   three individuals.

   It seems to me that the ganged nature of the caps shouldn't make the
   pressure release valves in them any more or less good. (unless they
   are by different manufacturers from the individual caps)

   The benefit of individual caps is that you can trade out a single
   leaky cap without replacing two others at the same time.

   Jay
   -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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   2EIAmgJagKvo5cLxIof3/+122/4MWenU
   =dZf1
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Re: [EVDL] AC or DC? : EV Conversion advice

2014-08-10 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I started with the AC24, and now have an 80kw BLDC motor and 
controller.  Lots of pep, handles San Diego freeway traffic with no 
problem.  Now I need to upgrade my batteries to provide the current that 
the controller likes.  :)

http://www.evalbum.com/2784

Cheers, Peter

On 8/10/14, 6:38 PM, via EV wrote:

Please add mine to this list.  I am very pleased to have decided to use an AC 
system.  www.evalbum.com/2430   Al Swackhammer
   


- Original Message -

From: ev ev@lists.evdl.org
To: ev ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:47:31 PM
Subject: [EVDL] AC or DC? : EV Conversion advice

I am hoping others who have experience with AC EV designs will weigh in here.
DC is all that was available back when I had my conversion made.
I know I would want the advantages of Today's AC drive systems.

The evalbum.com listings have so many uses, one of which is they are
searchable either  via a search engine or from that website. I found several
listings that used an AC system:

http://www.evalbum.com/2440
2001 Volkswagen Passat

http://www.evalbum.com/2315
1998 Volkswagen Golf

http://www.evalbum.com/2507
1990 Mazda MX-5 AC

http://www.evalbum.com/1396
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

http://www.evalbum.com/2507
1990 Mazda MX-5 AC

http://www.evalbum.com/2441
1999 Dodge Neon ACR

http://www.evalbum.com/3411
1969 MG MGB

http://www.evalbum.com/3660
1955 Porsche Spyder 550 Electric

http://www.evalbum.com/3576
1974 Porsche 914

http://www.evalbum.com/1541
2003 BMW 325i

http://www.evalbum.com/1253
2001 GMC Sonoma

http://www.evalbum.com/4759
2004 Scion xB

http://www.evalbum.com/1149
1982 Suzuki Sierra SJ40

http://www.evalbum.com/3060
2001 Suzuki Swift

There are more listings to look at using (this is all one long URL)

http://www.google.com/custom?site=evalbum.com%2Fq=%22ac+motor%22sitesearch=evalbum.com%2Fclient=pub-0604986736580708forid=1ie=ISO-8859-1oe=ISO-8859-1safe=activeflav=sig=Py9zWxKP0AnU10mscof=GALT%3A%230066CC%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%2399%3BVLC%3A336633%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFF%3BLBGC%3AFF%3BALC%3A0066CC%3BLC%3A0066CC%3BT%3A00%3BGFNT%3A66%3BGIMP%3A66%3BLH%3A50%3BLW%3A330%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fevalbum.com%2Fui%2Fevalbum.jpg%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fevalbum.com%2F%3BFORID%3A1%3B

You can look at these to know what system voltage, pack, motor and
controller they used for what range, and performance.

Several EV component AC sources come up when searching using
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=electric+vehicle+ac+motor+controller
  or
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=electric+car+ac+motor+controller

As far as what you can get for your DC EV components ... A lot of patients
when trying to sell them to get only some of your money back. That's is
another reason (things change over time) for not buying your EV components
until you actually ready to begin your conversion


{brucedp.150m.com}




On Sun, Aug 10, 2014, at 03:58 PM, ph...@bill-collins.net via EV wrote:

A few years ago I decided to convert my '98 VW Cabrio to electric.  At
the time,
a Warp 9 motor and Zilla 1K controller seemed to make a lot of sense, and
are
probably one of the best combinations today for a DC conversion.
Since I've now put 90k miles on the car as an ICE (after buying it
cheaply
because the previous owner thought it needed an engine) and a few years
have
gone by, I'm wondering if a DC conversion still makes sense.

I know Curtis makes an AC kit that's designed for similar applications as
the 9
inch DC motors.  Any opinions on it, or other AC options?
Any idea of the resale value of an unused Zilla 1K LV and Warp 9 motor?

At least lithium batteries are a lot cheaper than when I first thought
about doing this!

-






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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: i3 EV self-parks driver climbs out of window to prove (video)

2014-08-06 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Folks,

Take a look at deaths from automobiles in the USA, we are losing over 
30,000 people per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

Google has self-driving cars that have had 2 accidents - both caused by 
people. As of August 2012, there have been over 300,000 miles driven by 
these cars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car

Autonomous cars are going to be a boon for:
- blind people
- older people that can't drive any more
- people that are drunk/impaired
etc.

Since this is an electric vehicle discussion list, not a jobs or 
politics list, I kindly suggest we drop this thread.


Cheers, Peter

On 8/6/14, 2:24 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
While I agree that there are some strong political and job transition 
issues that will arrive with autonomous cars, I completely disagree 
that they will be unnecessary.


Possible benefits:
- take transit in the morning, stay late, call for your car at 10pm to 
pick you up;

- intoxicated; let the car drive
- share a ride to a event, need to leave early, call car to pick up up.

And so on...

In particular, I think they could be a boon for public transit. So 
many people take a car during the morning rush hour because they need 
to do something after work.  Imagine instead that they take public 
transit in the morning, which results in less vehicles on the road 
and, in the evening when the traffic has died down, their car can come 
and get them.  Also saves on parking space construction and cost to use.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: Dennis Miles via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List ev@lists.evdl.org

Sent: 06-Aug-14 2:16:00 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: i3 EV self-parks driver climbs out of 
window to prove (video)



Autonomous cars and wireless charging are two job destroyers at an
excessive cost. Both New Jersey and Oregon have thousands of labor 
jobs at
minimum wage for fuel (Gasoline) pump operators, (NO self service 
pumps!

) I have said before self driving autonomous autos are unnecessary and
motivation for their use is only from profit motive if the 
manufacturers. A
Chauffeur to drive your car or a Taxi and Driver or Limo and driver 
are
less expensive than paying $50,000 for one of the autonomous vehicles 
for

personal use. and replacing a Truck Driver is an economic loss for the
freight business. Drivers are more versatile and have a proven safety
record. A human being can make a decision based upon experience and
training and intuition which a computer cannot match. If you want to 
move

freight less expensively make an investment in rail-road infrastructure.

Dennis Lee Miles

(*evprofes...@evprofessor.com evprofes...@evprofessor.com)*

* Founder: **EV Tech. Institute Inc.*

*Phone #* *(863) 944-9913 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)*

*Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are
intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!*

* You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss
http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss *

* NEW You Tube Video link: *http://youtu. be/Pz9-TZtySh8
http://youtu.%20be/Pz9-TZtySh8


On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
wrote:


 On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
wrote:


  expecting the car to plug itself into a wall outlet / cable is 
asking

 a
  bit much.
 
  I can easily imagine a robot arm that can reach out, find and 
connect

 to some
  contacts mounted somehow on the front license plate area.
 
  That's a lot of moving parts to break, especially considering 
how many

 people
  have trouble not running over things in the garage already. Plus 
the

 hazard
  of people or pets or other things getting caught up in the 
mechanism.

 
  This strikes me as a non-problem that keeps getting elevated into
 something much bigger and more complicated than it needs to be.

 I think you're right. What's exciting to me is that two technological
 advances are starting to mature at the same time, and that the two 
of the
 together will potentially be much more significant than either 
would be

 separately.

 ICE and EV cars are both equally well suited to autonomous driving, 
but EV
 cars are _much_ better suited to autonomous recharging than ICE 
cars are to

 autonomous refueling.

 At-home EV recharging is already more than plenty good enough for 
all but
 the idle super-rich. At-home charging isn't merely a solved 
problem; it

 never really was a problem in the first place.

 On-the-go EV recharging is only a problem when the miles driven in 
a day
 are greater than the miles the car gets on an overnight charge. 
Save for

 road trips, the Tesla is already there and others will soon follow as
 battery prices continue to drop. And plugin hybrids such as the 
Volt and my
 Mustang project also have that problem well enough solved; if 
most people
 only filled up their gas

Re: [EVDL] article: Charging electric cars efficiently inductive

2014-08-02 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Thanks Paul and Martin for the link. As far as I know only Fraunhofer is 
exploring the vertical pads (aka license plate charging). All others are 
looking at under the car charging - mainly for EMF/safety reasons.  Nice 
to see such high percentage of efficiency though - 95%!


Cheers, Peter

On 8/2/14, 9:03 AM, Paul Wujek via EV wrote:

An interesting approach to inductive charging:
http://phys.org/news/2014-07-electric-cars-efficiently-inductive.html


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-23 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Took some digging, but using the phrase resonant magnetic induction 
produce this paper:


http://hflab.k.u-tokyo.ac.jp/paper_2010/papers/imura/WEVJ3-2380096.pdf

For those that aren't into heavy equations, it shows how you can design 
coils to absorb resonating magnetic fields over air gaps as large as 
200mm with efficiency over 90%.


Note that larger air gaps can be acheived with different antenna designs 
- this will be very useful for larger vehicles (e.g. heavy trucks or buses).


Cheers!

On 7/23/14, 2:53 AM, George Tyler via EV wrote:

I have done a lot of transformer and inductor design over the years, always
said you can't focus or direct a magnetic field, apart from ordinary
magnetic materials of course. On day I found something that someone had put
together on the web: He pointed out that if you have a resonant coil in a
magnetic field then the field it creates cancels the field around the
outside, and enhances it in the center on the coil. The effect is just like
sucking in the field into the coil!
I can always learn.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Martin WINLOW via
EV
Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 8:19 p.m.
To: Lee Hart; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive
EVSE for i3 EV

Calling Nikola Tesla! Calling Nikola Tesla! Come back! All is forgiven!

I bet *he'd* have something to say on this subject! MW


On 21 Jul 2014, at 20:24, Lee Hart via EV wrote:


From: Peri Hartman

Is it possible to use multiple coils to focus the beam?

Magnetic fields are devilishly difficult to direct or focus.

With electricity, we have great conductors (copper, silver, etc.) and

great insulators (air, plastics, etc.) There are *many* orders of magnitude
difference in their conductivity, so we can tightly control where the
current flows.

With magnetics, we have no good conductors, and no good insulators. It's

as if our best electrical conductor was carbon (which we make resistors out
of), and our best insulator was water (which conducts pretty well,
especially if dirty). Imagine trying to make a circuit work where the
conductors are all carbon, and it's submerged in water, which partially
shorts everything to everything else!

(Superconductors can give us good magnetic insulators; but they don't work

except at cryogenic temperatures).

I don't know wave theory but I believe directional radio transmitters
work by having two or more antennas. Can something similar be done with

inductive coils?

Yes; sort of. Every electric field inevitably has a magnetic field, and

vice versa. That's why we call it electromagnetics. However, for these
fields to act like waves, which we can focus and direct like light, the
frequencies need to be very high. The elements of a directional antenna need
to have dimensions on the order of 1/4 wavelength or more.

Wavelength (in meters) = 300 / Frequency (in MHz). At 100 MHz (the

frequency of FM radio and the old VHF television), the wavelength is about 3
meters -- so a 1/4 wave antenna is about 0.75 meters or 30 long. It's not
too hard to make antennas with multiple elements in parallel to focus and
direct these frequencies (like the traditional TV antennas that look like
giant metal combs).

At 1 MHz (the AM radio broadcast band) the wavelength is about 300 meters;

thus the tremendously high towers needed to effectively transmit it (the
whole tower is the antenna). It's hopeless to make receiving antennas this
big. We have to use far smaller antennas, that are far less efficient and
require substantial amplification to work.

The inductive chargers mentioned here are using 85 KHz. The wavelength is

on the order of 3500 meters! It's impossible to direct such frequencies with
the techniques used for radio antennas.

Vicor makes switchmode converters that operate just over 1 MHz; about the

highest practical frequency for state of the art switchmode converters. They
had to go to heroic lengths to get their transformers to operate with
reasonable efficiency (90%). Such frequencies are not yet practical for high
power converters.

Lower frequency transformers are more efficient. Conventional 60 Hz

transformers can be over 99% efficient, if you use enough copper and iron.
But to do so, they require *very* tight coupling between the primary and
secondary -- minimal gap between them. This is the opposite of the
requirement to have some separation between primary and secondary as imposed
by the wireless charging proponents.

I think the only way to make a practical wireless charger will be to use

more or less ordinary frequencies, and mechanically position the primary and
secondary coils as close as possible. This means either moving the car's
secondary coil or the charging station's primary coil so they touch.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/controllers.htm now includes the
GE EV-1

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-21 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Cable theft is a primary reason for wireless power transfer. Carrying a 
cable with  you just means you make it easier for someone to steal your 
copper. Heck, even in my relatively safe suburb I have to worry about my 
power cords disappearing!


As for efficiency, I've seen plug-to-battery efficiency over 90%, but 
nothing that has been officially published (yet). This works out better 
than my 110v plug in!  (Yes, if I were to put in a 220v system my 
efficiency would go up.)


Other factors to take into account:
* heavy rain
* snow
* high heat (e.g. Arizona in summer)
The user is not going to want to spend a lot of time outside the car 
with the cable, much less touch the darn thing in summer.


As for theft, I'm working hard on ensuring that the communication for 
the financial side is better than the usual banking cruft (mutual 
authentication, authenticated certificates, etc). TLS (you might know 
this as SSL) is already mandated for the money side. Adding in WPA2 for 
the wifi connection, and it becomes a LOT tougher for someone to spoof 
your car or charger.


Oh, here's another thing:  there is a strong desire to have the EV 
handle all types of charging - AC, DC and wireless.  So if you want to 
use the cable you can. If you have the wireless pad installed in your 
garage, you're good to charge.  Wireless is just another way to get 
power into the car.


Cheers!

On 7/21/14, 12:59 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:

It's not just convenience.  There is the issue of theft/vandalism of/to 
charging cords and the (small) danger to passers by posed by them ie the trip 
hazard.  They'll also wear out in time.  The inductive system removes all these 
problems.  MW


On 21 Jul 2014, at 05:08, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:


Me, too.  However, consumers might not care (unfortunately).  In other words, 
you might pay 15% more to cover losses but compared to what?  Consumers will be 
happy to just park and have the charge happen automatically.  Unless energy 
costs are really high, they will get ignored.

I'm with you, though.   When a simple direct connect is nearly 100% lossless, 
and so easy to plug in, why would I want to be so wasteful?

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: Al via EV ev@lists.evdl.org



My problem with the whole wireless charging dog and pony show is the lost 
energy and the seemingly impossible efficiency claims.
For instance, even if the high frequency transformer had NO air gap, there 
would still be a limit to its efficiency.
How efficient is a 60hz transformer? Is a higher frequency transformer any more 
efficient?

Al

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-20 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

Sorry about that - it also appears my resend as text failed. Some days
it's not worth posting. :)

Here's what I wrote earlier:

Hi Dennis,

This had been discussed at some meetings prior to my joining the group.
The biggest issues with the front mount are safety and EMF emissions. If
you have the bottom mount, you have the entire bottom of the vehicle
protecting live objects. The vehicle also acts as a shield, keeping the
emissions within safety limits.

You won't have the ground clearance issue if you design the vehicle with
this in mind. We've also done attachments to vehicles that do not
interfere with ground clearance.

Not sure about the 44Hz, that's not my area of expertise (I'm the
communication guy for our team) - it appears that 85KHz is going to be
the standard worldwide.

Completely agree that out-of-box thinking is much more fun. :)

Cheers!

P.S. Had to scrub the HTML out of the response - sorry.

On 7/20/14, 1:36 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote:

Peter,

Looks like you last post didn't work...

I'd be interested to know the answer to Lee's question, though in practical
terms I can see the appeal of the road-based solution. As far as that goes, is
there talk of being able to lower the car coil or is it assumed it will be
fixed? If objects getting in the way is going to be a problem then I can see
something will have to be done to prevent it - perhaps a deployable skirt to
keep things out. If you're going to do that, you might as well make the coil
itself lowerable and get the bonus of more efficient and reliable power
transfer.

Not wanting to shoot your work down but I am reminded of (I think it was) Lee's
idea of using an auto engaging charger connection which would be much more
efficient, much cheaper and only marginally less practical. SOmething like the
airborne re-fueling system is what I had in mind. MW

On 20 Jul 2014, at 01:04, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-20 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I do like Bob's solution for it's simplicity. However, anything 
mechanical under the car is a non-starter for the OEMs (they claim it is 
THE most hostile environment in the world). In some ways, this is the 
equivalent of the J1772 - no power to the lines until you have the power 
signal active.  I hope to get the wireless charging as simple as that, 
but then how to deal with paying for the power?  *sigh*


I have great respect for the testers - they do come up with the oddest 
corner cases, don't they?  :)  As for whether it is possible to steal 
20W, yeah, that's possible as long as you don't disturb the flux too much.


As for the coils, not my area of expertise.  Yes, it is quite possible 
to focus the beam, and I *think* this is what will end up happening.  
However, at this time in the standards groups, they have not decided on 
the final technology.  Once they do decide I'll be sure to let the group 
know (once I get clearance from the dreaded lawyers).  :)


On 7/20/14, 11:54 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
Another thought,  Peter.  Is it possible to use multiple coils to 
focus the beam?  I don't know wave theory but I believe directional 
radio transmitters work by having two or more antenae.  Can something 
similar be done with inductive coils?


If so, then using some sort of directional recognizer, the transmitter 
could focus the beam exactly to the receiver area. I'm hoping this 
would reduce risk of exposure when humans, animals are in the vicinity 
and also improve efficiency.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Martin WINLOW m...@winlow.co.uk; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List ev@lists.evdl.org

Sent: 20-Jul-14 11:37:04 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless 
Inductive EVSE for i3 EV



From: Martin WINLOW
 Not wanting to shoot your work down but I am reminded of (I think 
it was) Lee's idea of using
 an auto engaging charger connection which would be much more 
efficient, much cheaper and only

 marginally less practical.


It was actually Bob Rice's solution (although the idea is no doubt 
even older). In 1968, Bob had an EV with drive-on charging. It was a 
bump-stop that you drove up against. A platform between the front 
wheels would slide sideways to center itself between the front 
wheels. It had two brush contacts on the top surface, that mated with 
contacts on the bottom of the car. The contacts were dead until the 
car was present and electrical contact was established. Simple as dirt!


I know that people are often fascinated by complex solutions. 
Advertising can often talk them into paying extraordinary prices for 
trivial conveniences or hypothetical benefits. Companies like them 
because they can make a lot of money selling them (especially if they 
can get laws passed to make it a standard). But if you actually 
expect them to be widely used or survive in the long run, I think 
we'd all be better served by working on simpler ways of doing it.


GM's Magnecharger comes to mind. A good idea, expensively 
implemented, legislated as a standard, and now a footnote in history.


On an 85 KHz high power inductive charger: As an EE, I can't see how 
the charger can detect a 0.1% energy loss to some unexpected device 
in the area. And yet, that's enough power to easily heat up 
unintended receivers and fry sensitive electronics that by chance 
just happen to resonate at 85 KHz. How can you reassure me that this 
won't happen?


When I was designing safety-critical consumer electronics, we'd have 
someone on the team whose *job* it was to try to break the system. 
If the guy was good (and he needed to be) :-) he'd come up with 
things we never thought of in our wildest dreams! So... with your 
inductive setup, what if you *tried* to find a way to trick the 
electronics, and steal 5-10 watts of power from the charger without 
tripping the safety shutdowns? If you can do it, then Murphy will 
probably discover some mass-produced gadget that just happens to do it.

--
A free whistle given away in millions of boxes of Captain Crunch 
cereal just happened to be exactly the right frequency to turn off 
the phone company's long-distance billing equipment, so kids could 
make free long-distance calls!

--
Lee Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/controllers.htm now includes the 
GE EV-1 controller


--
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it. -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-19 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

You are correct.  We are requiring 2-way communication as well as 
monitoring of the power being transmitted. If some metal does come 
near/into the field, the transmitter can easily detect this (big change 
in current) and shut down the transmission.  Likewise if the 
communication fails, power transfer stops. If the alignment between pads 
shifts (we call it alignment check) outside of nominal values, power 
transfer stops.  If a living object comes near (basically to the side of 
the car), power transfer stops.


I've just spent an entire week working with the standard responsible for 
this, so all of this is VERY fresh in my mind.  :)


Cheers, Peter

On 7/18/14, 4:18 AM, Evan Tuer via EV wrote:

It's more than improbable.  There is 2 way communication with any of these
wireless charging protocols, and monitoring of the power on both sides.
  Any rogue coil (which would have to be inserted pretty much in between the
car and the charger whilst it is charging, which isn't going to happen
accidentally) would cause a mismatch and transfer would stop immediately.

Transfer won't start in the first place unless there's a correct, properly
aligned and communicating receiver.




On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:


Hmmm, my instant reaction was 'extremely unlikely' as you would need a
'receiver' circuit with the right resonant frequency to generate any sort
of significant energy.  That said, it is, I suppose, quite feasible that
with the mass of coils of one sort or another that there are 'out there'
that some fluke of chance may just throw up a matching resonant  situation
and then, who know's what could happen.   It's a bit improbable though.
Certainly simple metal objects such as you mentioned will *not* be an issue.

On the other hand, interestingly, the power used by the flux generating
coils in a large, whole body MRI scanner is about the same as that which
this inductive charger will use, ~7kW.  As I suspect you know, these MRIs
come with all sorts of dire warnings about keeping metal objects out of the
way lest they turn into lethal projectiles.  Fortunately, the MRI coils are
designed to do something completely different to the inductive charger and
so this issue is unlikely to be important.  Also, the fixed coils energy
will only be 'live' when a car is charging so, again, it is improbable that
with the car in the way, anything would be able to get into a position
where something unexpected would occur.  It will be interesting to see how
this all pans out.  MW


On 17 Jul 2014, at 13:30, robert winfield via EV wrote:


will it induce eddy currents in metallic jewelry or clasps or such in

clothing worn by occupants.

(My car warms me before we leave in the morning...)

On Thu, 7/17/14, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive

EVSE for i3 EV

To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 4:58 AM



Wireless EV Charging on the Horizon, But is It Safe?



http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/cables-needed-bmw-daimler-working-wireless-charging-technology-evs/

No cables needed: BMW and Daimler working on wireless
charging technology
for EVs
By Andrew Hard — July 11, 2014

[image
http://icdn2.digitaltrends.com/image/rsz_p90155654.jpg
Wireless Charging Technology
]

With the help of BMW and Daimler, electric vehicles are
taking the next step
toward worry-free ownership.

The German automakers recently announced a joint effort to
develop a
wireless charging system for the i3 electric vehicle and i8
plug-in hybrid.

EVs don’t need oil changes, filter replacements, or
emissions testing, so
they’re already extremely convenient to own. If the
inductive wireless
charging technology is viable, EV owners won’t even need
to worry about
refueling.

BMW and Daimler’s charging tech works in the same way
wireless cell phone
chargers do, just on a larger scale. An alternating magnetic
field transmits
energy between two sets of coils: one mounted onto the
car’s parking area
(usually a garage floor), and a secondary coil on the
vehicle itself.

The array transmits energy at a charging rate of 3.6
kilowatts, which,
according to BMW, is enough to fully charge an i8 in under
two hours. The
German engineers predict they can increase that rate to 7.0
kW in the
future.

The circular design of the coils comes in a compact,
lightweight package
that is equal parts subtle and slick. The floor-mounted
baseplate will
function even when exposed to rain and snow, and the car’s
receiver coil can
be activated with the push of a button.

To keep the neighborhood cats safe and grounded, the current
is
automatically shut off if any foreign bodies are detected.
BMW allows users
to monitor the charging process with the i Wallbox and
accompanying
smartphone app.

As always, BMW strives to be an innovator. In May, the
German company
announced a solar-powered carport that would

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-19 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

We have very strict european radiation standards that cover this - you
could be walking your pet sloth next to the charging car and be safe
(both you and the sloth). :) The bigger issue is what happens when you
stick your arm under the car - it is currently saying that power must be
off before the arm comes near one of the primary power areas.

Cheers, Peter

On 7/19/14, 8:25 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote:

So, how much EMF from the transmitter 'escapes' the receiver in normal
operation? It is this, I think, anyone who has concerns about the technology is
effectively talking about. Whether any escaped energy can then cause problems
with other devices is another matter. MW

On 19 Jul 2014, at 16:14, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

You are correct. We are requiring 2-way communication as well as monitoring of
the power being transmitted. If some metal does come near/into the field, the
transmitter can easily detect this (big change in current) and shut down the
transmission. Likewise if the communication fails, power transfer stops. If
the alignment between pads shifts (we call it alignment check) outside of
nominal values, power transfer stops. If a living object comes near (basically
to the side of the car), power transfer stops.

I've just spent an entire week working with the standard responsible for this,
so all of this is VERY fresh in my mind. :)

Cheers, Peter

On 7/18/14, 4:18 AM, Evan Tuer via EV wrote:

It's more than improbable. There is 2 way communication with any of these
wireless charging protocols, and monitoring of the power on both sides.
Any rogue coil (which would have to be inserted pretty much in between the
car and the charger whilst it is charging, which isn't going to happen
accidentally) would cause a mismatch and transfer would stop immediately.

Transfer won't start in the first place unless there's a correct, properly
aligned and communicating receiver.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

Hmmm, my instant reaction was 'extremely unlikely' as you would need a
'receiver' circuit with the right resonant frequency to generate any sort
of significant energy. That said, it is, I suppose, quite feasible that
with the mass of coils of one sort or another that there are 'out there'
that some fluke of chance may just throw up a matching resonant situation
and then, who know's what could happen. It's a bit improbable though.
Certainly simple metal objects such as you mentioned will *not* be an issue.

On the other hand, interestingly, the power used by the flux generating
coils in a large, whole body MRI scanner is about the same as that which
this inductive charger will use, ~7kW. As I suspect you know, these MRIs
come with all sorts of dire warnings about keeping metal objects out of the
way lest they turn into lethal projectiles. Fortunately, the MRI coils are
designed to do something completely different to the inductive charger and
so this issue is unlikely to be important. Also, the fixed coils energy
will only be 'live' when a car is charging so, again, it is improbable that
with the car in the way, anything would be able to get into a position
where something unexpected would occur. It will be interesting to see how
this all pans out. MW

On 17 Jul 2014, at 13:30, robert winfield via EV wrote:

Wireless EV Charging on the Horizon, But is It Safe?

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/cables-needed-bmw-daimler-working-wireless-charging-technology-evs/

No cables needed: BMW and Daimler working on wireless
charging technology
for EVs
By Andrew Hard — July 11, 2014

[image
http://icdn2.digitaltrends.com/image/rsz_p90155654.jpg
Wireless Charging Technology
]

With the help of BMW and Daimler, electric vehicles are
taking the next step
toward worry-free ownership.

The German automakers recently announced a joint effort to
develop a
wireless charging system for the i3 electric vehicle and i8
plug-in hybrid.

EVs don’t need oil changes, filter replacements, or
emissions testing, so
they’re already extremely convenient to own. If the
inductive wireless
charging technology is viable, EV owners won’t even need
to worry about
refueling.

BMW and Daimler’s charging tech works in the same way
wireless cell phone
chargers do, just on a larger scale. An alternating magnetic
field transmits
energy between two sets of coils: one mounted onto the
car’s parking area
(usually a garage floor), and a secondary coil on the
vehicle itself.

The array transmits energy at a charging rate of 3.6
kilowatts, which,
according to BMW, is enough to fully charge an i8 in under
two hours. The
German engineers predict they can increase that rate to 7.0
kW in the
future.

The circular design of the coils comes in a compact,
lightweight package
that is equal parts subtle and slick. The floor-mounted
baseplate will
function even when exposed to rain and snow, and the car’s
receiver coil can
be activated with the push of a button.

To keep

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-19 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV


Hi Lee,

Part of the long, long discussion covers this. We have a list of common 
metal items (along with size and material) that must be detected. There 
are some other standards that EV charging will have to conform to, since 
we will need to prevent overheating that can cause human injury.


Some of the scenarios that we have:
* metal left on the pad before charging (coins, cans, keys, metal 
foil, etc),

* metal blowing onto the pad during charging (same list),
* living objects moving near to the charging area.
The list is not complete yet, but I'm hoping we'll be done with it by 
the end of the year.  It is slow going since we need to negotiate with 
companies worldwide.


Cheers, Peter

On 7/19/14, 8:53 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

I've just spent an entire week working with the standard
responsible for this, so all of this is VERY fresh in my mind. :)


Excellent! I'm delighted to see your company thinks it is important. 
Though, I still worry about unintended consequences.


When I was working with a high-power switchmode power supply, one of 
the techs happened to be wearing a wristwatch with a metal band. He 
reached over the supply to adjust something, and his wrist watch band 
got hot!


The flux leakage from the 50kw transformer was tiny -- maybe 0.1%. But 
0.1% of 50kw is 50 watts -- easily enough to overheat the band. There 
was no observable change in the operation of the supply at all. If he 
hadn't jerked his hand away, he would have gotten burned!


I've heard of similar situations with people wearing rings or other 
metal jewelry. There are also cases of burning up parts or traces on 
PC boards in phones etc. due to stray EM fields. Even a tiny power 
loss that's too small to detect can have serious consequences.




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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-19 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM's Workplace Charging Etiquette Tips ...

2014-06-18 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

I work for Qualcomm at the mothership in San Diego, and as a result we
have several thousand people all in the same area. Being a high-tech
company, we have a LOT of EVs. Of course, we don't have a lot of
charging spots. The good thing is that we also have a wiki, a mailing
list, and a lot of well-informed people to help share the charging
spots. The only company edict we have is that we are allowed to charge
wherever there is a plug and a valid parking spot. The rest we have
come up with on our own, similar to what Mike has. Surprisingly, the
facilities people are very supportive - we have an email list to tell
them when a circuit breaker has tripped (too many EVs on a level 1 plug).

Bill and Dave still live on, I like to think. :)

Cheers, Peter

On 6/18/14, 2:59 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

If I remember correctly, Mike's work is at the hp in Boise, ID. His
description of their inter-coworker cooperation and communication reminds me
of what hp was when I worked for them for 25 years. Its nice to know his
site still seems to operate using Bill and Dave's old-school methods,
whereas sites near hp Corporate in CA abandoned that long-ago when I worked
under CEO Carley's reign.

But large companies that don't have that 'on-the-same-page' attitude and
approach, have employees that are strangers and aloof to each other. Those
plugin drivers act like they are using public charging, where they do not
care about the other driver.

This becomes especially true the more EV charging there is at a site, and
when there are visitors using that EVSE. At Facebook in Menlo Park, CA
http://a6b6a4d850da023e34c0-ffd458871468d7801be60d93d5d79b26.r30.cf2.rackcdn.com/45930.jpg
there is a fair amount of charging around the former Sun-Microsystems/Oracle
site buildings that an employee would likely not know the driver of the
plugin vehicle next to them. This is going to become more common as more and
more EVSE is installed at work and out at public locations.

Here are some examples of large quantity EVSE installations:
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/houstons-tranquility-park-garage-with-gridbot-charging-stations_100365734_l.jpg
Houston's Tranquility Park Garage

http://www.cnet.com/news/google-we-have-largest-ev-charging-network/
Google says it will have 450 free charging stations on campus ...

There are several other multiple-EVSE sites, but I think that is enough to
make my point.

...
What I found interesting about GM's newswire release to the media, was their
late-to-the game effort to jump on the EV bandwagon. As if all their
million$ of dollar$ to fight against plugins should be forgotten, and now
they are the Good-Guys (?!?).

Particularly the sentence stressing that all EVs (which they still insist
the Volt plug-in-hybrid is) should be treated equally: do not unplug a pih
because you know it can run on fuel.

If a pih driver wants to use their pih in electric mode as much as possible,
I can see that point. But how does anyone know what a pih driver's habits
are. Clearly, a drained EV must get charging.
[Please lets not start a flame war on who should get what]

What I see is there is no established communication method between plugin
drivers to talk to each other and see if what each driver's needs are. That
is what I hoped GM would make happen. But all we got was lots of words that
whitewash GM to look good, and the public to feel-good about their belated
EV efforts.

Perhaps there needs to be a next-gen EVSE that is smart enough to know who
to ding the use-fee to, read the plugin's recharge-time desire, and adjust
that fee accordingly.

The EVSE owner may also want to sort out who 'needs a charge' vs who 'wants
a charge' using those different rate fees.

Perhaps the next-gen of EVs would have an EVSE interface screen on their
infotainment system that would let them select what charge to get (how
co$tly), and give data to the EVSE of what type of plugin it is, and how
badly it needs a charge:

-EVs wanting a higher/faster charge rate would pay more
-pih with on-board fuel would pay more
-EVs only wanting a low-n-slow and or an interruptible/V2G charge would pay
less
-etc.

Something has to be done to communicate who 'needs' what, else charging
situations can get nasty/abusive.

{brucedp.150m.com}

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Greenfield, MA's dicey drunk freakazoids unplugging EVs

2014-06-08 Thread Peter C. Thompson via EV

On 6/8/14, 10:54 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Dennis Miles via EV wrote:

My FIRST piece of advice is charging stations need to be supervised.
Vandalism is a crime. Go to the Police and swear out a complaint .

Luckily, it's getting easier to install security cameras. They can
gather evidence. Unfortunately, it still rarely leads to an arrest.
Many times, the police feel they have better things to do.

Of course, vandalism is nothing new. *Anything* can become a target
for drunken rage or teenage idiocy. My father was a rural mail
carrier, and many times saw the results of mail box baseball, where
idiots would go around purposely smashing mailboxes. That's a federal
offense, but they do it anyway!

The novelty of EV charging stations might make the situation worse.
There is also that lovely cord, that can probably be sold for its
copper to make a fast buck to buy booze or drugs.

This is one reason I favor simpler, cheaper charging stations. We can
install 10 times as many for the same price. And when some are
(inevitably) vandalized, it will be 10 times cheaper to fix them.

This is actually one of the sales points for wireless EV charging -
making the system more hooligan-proof. Of course, *NOTHING* is every
hooligan-proof - nature keeps coming up with more clever hooligans! :)

BTW, I finally found a press release from someone other than Qualcomm
Halo - claiming 97.4% efficiency.

http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/en/press-and-media/press-releases/presseinformationen-2013/cables-no-longer-needed

Cheers! Peter
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