On 21 Jul 2011, at 00:58, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Craig Weinberg
whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
Chickens can walk around for a while without a head also. It doesn't
mean that air is a viable substitute for a head, and it doesn't mean
that the head isn't
On 21 Jul 2011, at 00:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 7/20/2011 2:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
What does consciousness require?
Interaction with the world.
But what is a world? Also, assuming computationalism, you need only to
believe that you interact with a world/reality, whatever that is,
Sounds like a fancy cash register to me.
Better than magic topology.
A fictive topology explains the desire for magic, but a cash register
has no desire. How complicated does the cash register have to be
before it invents the idea of magic? If the cash register reproduces
itself, would baby
It depends entirely on the degree to which the neurons are modified or
artificial. If you replace some parts of a care with ones made out of
chewing gum or ice, they may work for a while under particular
conditions, temperatures, etc. Think of how simple an artificial heart
is by comparison to
I don't have a problem with living neurological systems extending
their functionality with mechanical prosthetics, it's the other way
around that is more of an issue. People driving cars doesn't mean cars
driving human minds.
On Jul 21, 5:48 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 21 Jul
On 21 Jul 2011, at 00:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 7/20/2011 2:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
What does consciousness require?
Interaction with the world.
But what is a world? Also, assuming computationalism, you need only to
believe that you interact with a world/reality, whatever that is,
like in
On 21 Jul 2011, at 12:50, Craig Weinberg wrote:
I don't have a problem with living neurological systems extending
their functionality with mechanical prosthetics, it's the other way
around that is more of an issue. People driving cars doesn't mean cars
driving human minds.
Sure, but we do
On 21 Jul 2011, at 13:02, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On 7/20/2011 2:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
What does consciousness require?
Interaction with the world.
But what is a world? Also, assuming computationalism, you need only
to
believe that you interact with a world/reality, whatever
On 7/21/2011 2:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
But I think you beg the question by demanding an axiomatic definition
and rejecting ostensive ones.
Why?
The point is that ostensive definition does not work for justifying an
ontology.
That seems to be a non-sequitur. How can any kind of
On 7/21/2011 2:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 21 Jul 2011, at 00:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 7/20/2011 2:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
What does consciousness require?
Interaction with the world.
But what is a world? Also, assuming computationalism, you need only to
believe that you interact
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 7/21/2011 2:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Axiomatics are already in Platonia so of course that forces computation
to be there.
The computations are concrete relations.
If the are concrete then we should be able
On Jul 10, 2:20 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
You might find out that molecules in brain are unconscious too.
The fact that consciousness changes predictably when different
molecules are introduced to the brain, and that we are able to produce
different molecules by
On Jul 11, 4:48 am, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
This philosophy has already shown great success for anything that stores,
transmits or processes information. Data can be stored as magnetic poles on
hard drives and tape, different levels of reflectivity on CDs and DVDs, as
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:30 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
**
On 7/21/2011 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 7/21/2011 2:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Axiomatics are already in Platonia so of course that
i don't see a much of a connection between those statements.
Complexity could be necessary but insufficient. It is,
for instance, difficult to see how you could have
simple colour qualia. Colours represent a lot of intormation.
Yes, I agree, complexity could be necessary but insufficient. Just as
On Jul 12, 11:50 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
My view of awareness is now subtractive and holographic (think pinhole
camera), so that I would read fading qualia in a different way. More
like dementia.. attenuating connectivity between different aspects of
the self, not
On Jul 20, 2:43 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 20 Jul 2011, at 15:21, 1Z wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:53 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 08 Jul 2011, at 02:35, meekerdb wrote:
On 7/7/2011 4:59 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:12:45PM -0700,
On Jul 21, 8:23 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
1) if conventional physics gives an adequate causal account,does and
experience is explained
with New Physics, does that make experience epiphenomenal?
In my view, physics, experience, and the underlying relation between
On Jul 21, 9:54 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:35 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jul 11, 4:51 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
automatic consequences which
arise unbidden from from relations that are defined by
that doesn't need any
complex logic behind it,
Why? This is just like saying we can't explain it. I am OK with
that, but then I look for better definitions and assumptions, with the
goal of at least finding an explanation of why it seems like that, or
why there is no explanation. Without this,
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
Assume both matter and number relations exist. With comp, the existence
of
number relations explains the existence of matter, but the existence of
matter does not explain the existence of number relations.
Yes it does.
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 5:02 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jul 21, 9:54 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:35 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jul 11, 4:51 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
automatic consequences which
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote:
There was a lot made of the perceived difference in digital music when
CDs first came out, in the audiophile communities particularly. I do
think that a subtle difference can be detected but hard to know
whether it's
On 7/21/2011 3:55 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com
mailto:peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
Assume both matter and number relations exist. With comp, the
existence of
number relations explains the existence of matter, but the
Whether or not a nerve cell in your cochlea fires or not is digital, as is
the number of ions it releases when it fires. Thus, even when listening to
analogue recordings, by the time it reaches your brain the signal has been
digitized. Digital representations today technology may have
On Jul 21, 11:55 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
Assume both matter and number relations exist. With comp, the existence
of
number relations explains the existence of matter, but the existence of
matter
In my view, physics, experience, and the underlying relation between
them are all co-phenomenal and co-epiphenomenal
I have no idea what that means.
I'm trying to say that from the vantage point of physical externality,
experience is deterministically caused by physical laws, but from the
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:43 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jul 21, 11:55 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:
Assume both matter and number relations exist. With comp, the
existence
of
number
Our brains are obviously doing it with
the colorless nerve impulses (information) that comes in from the optic
nerve. I think most people lack appreciation for just how complex the brain
is, and conclude this or that is impossible for any process (no matter how
complex) to do. The brain has
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote:
I agree there would be a level at which digital recording is
indistinguishable from analog recording, but I think that it's due to
the intentional gating of the sense through the psyche and media path
rather than
On 7/21/2011 5:35 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Whether or not a nerve cell in your cochlea fires or not is digital, as is
the number of ions it releases when it fires. Thus, even when listening to
analogue recordings, by the time it reaches your brain the signal has been
digitized. Digital
On 7/21/2011 1:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:30 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 7/21/2011 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
It depends entirely on the degree to which the neurons are modified or
artificial. If you replace some parts of a care with ones made out of
chewing gum or ice, they may work for a while under particular
conditions,
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
**
On 7/21/2011 1:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:30 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 7/21/2011 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM, meekerdb
On 7/21/2011 8:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 7/21/2011 1:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:30 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:30 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
**
On 7/21/2011 8:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 7/21/2011 1:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:30 PM, meekerdb
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