Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 18 Jan 2014, at 02:06, meekerdb wrote: On 1/17/2014 10:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Jan 2014, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote: On 1/16/2014 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 January 2014 04:42, Telmo Menezes wrote: I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Yes, and friends that are teenagers in mental age. On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 5:29 PM, LizR wrote: > On 19 January 2014 11:16, Stephen Paul King wrote: > >> Dear LizR, >> >> I know. I deserved that. It is just frustrating to explain something >> and get a blank look in response. >> > > Do you ha

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 19 January 2014 11:16, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Dear LizR, > > I know. I deserved that. It is just frustrating to explain something and > get a blank look in response. > Do you have any teenage kids?!? :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Eve

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Dear LizR, I know. I deserved that. It is just frustrating to explain something and get a blank look in response. On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 5:14 PM, LizR wrote: > On 19 January 2014 05:26, Stephen Paul King wrote: > >> Dear Bruno, >> >> Could you ever stop being obtuse? >> > > Dear Stephen,

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 19 January 2014 05:26, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Dear Bruno, > > Could you ever stop being obtuse? > Dear Stephen, Please don't start sounding like Edgar... Please don't imply that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Dear Bruno, Could you ever stop being obtuse? On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 17 Jan 2014, at 21:01, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > Dear Bruno, > > I think that you are setting up a false dichotomy with the notion of "a > finite unique physical universe" in Step

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 17 Jan 2014, at 21:01, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear Bruno, I think that you are setting up a false dichotomy with the notion of "a finite unique physical universe" in Step 8 of the UDA! In my thinking each and every observer has its own unique "finite unique physical universe" Wh

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Hi Brent, "I think step 8 uses a false premise that one can anticipate all the counterfactual events. Or looked at another way, it implies that to show consciousness could be realized without physics requires creating a whole physics." I could not say better myself! Bravo! On Fri, Jan 17, 20

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 1/17/2014 10:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Jan 2014, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote: On 1/16/2014 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 January 2014 04:42, Telmo Menezes wrote: I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am conscious, so I don't see why another lump of d

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Dear Bruno, I think that you are setting up a false dichotomy with the notion of "a finite unique physical universe" in Step 8 of the UDA! In my thinking each and every observer has its own unique "finite unique physical universe" (thus each 1p is unique and FPI follows from the inability to exa

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 17 Jan 2014, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote: On 1/16/2014 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 January 2014 04:42, Telmo Menezes wrote: I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way migh

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Dear Bruno, There is a movie Surrogates, that involves the ability to rest a body in far away locations or for specific events/jobs/dates, just as we would rest a car. You might enjoy it. I did. :-) On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 17 Jan 2014, at 01:51, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 January 2014 02:23, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am conscious, I think this is misleading. Are you really a dumb of matter?

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 17 Jan 2014, at 00:01, John Mikes wrote: ...just take the 'infinite' seriously. That's a wise suggestion. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 1/16/2014 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 January 2014 04:42, Telmo Menezes wrote: I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way might not also be conscious. What is it about that id

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 13 January 2014 04:42, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am >> conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in >> a special way might not also be conscious. What is it about that idea >> that you see as not only wrong, but r

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 13 January 2014 02:23, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am >> conscious, > > > I think this is misleading. Are you really a dumb of matter? I think that > your body can be a lump of dumb

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 13 January 2014 00:00, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:21:48 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am >> conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in >> a special way might not also be

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 17 January 2014 12:01, John Mikes wrote: > Liz: the first that came to mind was Edgar's "isn't it obvious'?" but I > did not want to make fun of him. > Perish the thought. > Of you: maybe. How do you expect me to give you examples from BEYOND our > knowable circumstances to illustrate what

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Bruno, as I recall my recollection of Colin was an oldie one from his young-age ideas. Many many years ago. John On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 14 Jan 2014, at 23:09, John Mikes wrote: > > Brent: > > thanks for submitting Colin Hales' words! > I lost track of hi

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Liz: the first that came to mind was Edgar's "isn't it obvious'?" but I did not want to make fun of him. Of you: maybe. How do you expect me to give you examples from BEYOND our knowable circumstances to illustrate what is beyond our knowable? Physix works with the boundaries of our present knowled

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 14 Jan 2014, at 23:09, John Mikes wrote: Brent: thanks for submitting Colin Hales' words! I lost track of him lately in the West-Australian deserts (from where he seemed to move to become focussed on being accepted for scientific title(s) by establishment-scientist potentates - what I

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 15 January 2014 11:09, John Mikes wrote: > It depends on the boundaries *WE CHOSE. *Consider different boundaries > and the LAW will change immediately, even within our unchanged ignorance of > the totality. > > I think I follow this but I'm not sure. Could you explain further, or give an exam

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Brent: thanks for submitting Colin Hales' words! I lost track of him lately in the West-Australian deserts (from where he seemed to move to become focussed on being accepted for scientific title(s) by establishment-scientist potentates - what I never believed of him indeed). I loved (and tried t

RE: Tegmark and consciousness

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Sunday, 12 January 2014 5:54 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Tegmark and consciousness On 1/11/2014 8:12 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 1/12/2014 9:42 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: I'm sorry I repeat this answer so many times, but this claim is also made so many times. The main problem I see with this idea is that no progress has been made so far in explaining how a lump of matter becomes conscious, as opposed to just being a zombi

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Dear Brent and LizR, Could it be that we are really discussing the Word Problem? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_problem_for_groups Note the relation to computations, via the use of recursively enumerable sets! A pair of words, as defined in the Wiki article, could represent the content of a

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 1/12/2014 12:55 AM, LizR wrote: On 12 January 2014 19:53, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: The sciences do not try to explain, they hardly even try to interpret, they mainly make models. By a model is meant a mathematical construct which, with the addition of cert

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:43:41 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Jan 2014, at 14:18, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Sunday, January 12, 2014 5:41:15 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Jan 2014, at 05:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: > > RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: >> RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 >> >> Consciousness as a State of Matter >> >> Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 >> >> >> >> Hi Folk, >> >> Grrr! >> >> I

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Original Message- > From: Bruno Marchal > To: everything-list > Sent: Sun, Jan 12, 2014 10:23 am > Subject: Re: Tegmark and consciousness > > > On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales > &g

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Why are we not more interested in the "special arrangements"? On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:21:48 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am >> conscious, so I don't see why anot

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Bruno Marchal > To: everything-list > Sent: Sun, Jan 12, 2014 10:23 am > Subject: Re: Tegmark and consciousness > > > On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales > > wrote: > >> RE: arXiv:

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

culate on some unknown ways used by nature to harness quantum information. That might be clarified in the future. Bruno -Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list Sent: Sun, Jan 12, 2014 10:23 am Subject: Re: Tegmark and consciousness On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21,

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales >> wrote: >> >>> RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 >>> >>> Consciousness as a State of Matter >>> >>> Max Tegmark, Januar

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

based on recent papers involving the quantum and plants)? -Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list Sent: Sun, Jan 12, 2014 10:23 am Subject: Re: Tegmark and consciousness On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffre

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 12 Jan 2014, at 14:18, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 12, 2014 5:41:15 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Jan 2014, at 05:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 Consciousness as a State of Matter Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 Hi Folk, Grr

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 Consciousness as a State of Matter Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 Hi Folk, Grrr! I confess that after 12 years of deep

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 5:41:15 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Jan 2014, at 05:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: > > RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 > Consciousness as a State of Matter > Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 > > Hi Folk, > Grrr! > I confess th

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:21:48 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am > conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in > a special way might not also be conscious. What is it about that idea > that you see as

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 12 Jan 2014, at 05:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 Consciousness as a State of Matter Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 Hi Folk, Grrr! I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science’s grapplings with consciousness, the bl

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 12 January 2014 19:53, meekerdb wrote: > The sciences do not try to explain, they hardly even try to interpret, > they mainly make models. By a model is meant a mathematical construct > which, with the addition of certain verbal interpretations, describes > observed phenomena. The justific

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 1/11/2014 8:12 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 Consciousness as a State of Matter Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 Hi Folk, Grrr! I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science's grapplings with consciousness, the blin

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

Phlogiston!!! Nice to hear from you, Colin! :-) On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales < cgha...@unimelb.edu.au> wrote: > RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 > > Consciousness as a State of Matter > > Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 > > > > Hi Folk, > > G

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: > RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 > > Consciousness as a State of Matter > > Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 > > > > Hi Folk, > > Grrr! > > I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science’s grapplings with >

Re: Tegmark and consciousness

On Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:12:46 PM UTC-5, ColinHales wrote: > > RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 > > Consciousness as a State of Matter > > Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 > > > > Hi Folk, > > Grrr! > > I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science

RE: Tegmark and consciousness

RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 Consciousness as a State of Matter Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 Hi Folk, Grrr! I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science's grapplings with consciousness, the blindspot I see operating is so obvious and so pervasive and