Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 12 May 2019, at 20:38, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 12:31:12 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Concerning mathematical logic and theology, an incredible book is: > > Cohen J. Daniel, 2007. Equations from God, Pure Mathematics and Victorian > Faith, John

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 12:31:12 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Concerning mathematical logic and theology, an incredible book is: > > Cohen J. Daniel, 2007. Equations from God, Pure Mathematics and Victorian > Faith, John Hopkins Press, Baltimore. > > That book shows that the whole

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 10 May 2019, at 15:38, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 7:53 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> SNIP >> >> OK. >> >> It is just that this is verified by

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 7:53 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 5 May 2019, at 21:56, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/5/2019 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 3 May 2019, at 01:02, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/2/2019 8:52 AM,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 5/5/2019 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 3 May 2019, at 01:02, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/2/2019 8:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 1 May 2019, at 18:23, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 3 May 2019, at 01:08, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/2/2019 9:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> I guess you meant “clonable”; On the contrary, with mechanism matter is not >> clonable for all its aspect belonging below our substitution level, > It's merely your

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 3 May 2019, at 01:02, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/2/2019 8:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 1 May 2019, at 18:23, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/1/2019 1:53 AM, Bruno

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 5/2/2019 9:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I guess you meant “clonable”; On the contrary, with mechanism matter is not clonable for all its aspect belonging below our substitution level, It's merely your supposition that the not clonable (I quoted your "coinable") is below the level at which

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 5/2/2019 8:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 1 May 2019, at 18:23, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/1/2019 1:53 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I am not sure I understand. By definition, the substitution level take into account all what

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 20:13, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/1/2019 10:19 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: >> No, this is the mistake that you make. You confuse artificial entities with >> natural entities. In an artificial entities the functional parts

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 19:27, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Is it even possible to physical implement your "machine" ? If so, can you > elaborate on it ? What is it about the "physical world" that would allow your > "machine" to be "physically" implemented ? That is a very

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 19:19, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > No, this is the mistake that you make. You confuse artificial entities with > natural entities. That contradicts the monism related to the idea that consciousness is the fundamental things. With mechanism, the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 18:39, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/1/2019 2:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> My point is that "qualia" don't exist independent of an environment, and an >>> evolutionary history. >> >> That is ambiguous. A human qualia needs a human history.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 18:23, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/1/2019 1:53 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I am not sure I understand. By definition, the substitution level take into account all what is relevant. >>> But definitions don't call the definidum into

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 5/1/2019 10:19 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: No, this is the mistake that you make. You confuse artificial entities with natural entities. In an artificial entities the functional parts that they contain are 100% knowable by us, because it is us who put them there in the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Is it even possible to physical implement your "machine" ? If so, can you elaborate on it ? What is it about the "physical world" that would allow your "machine" to be "physically" implemented ? On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 19:53:54 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > When I talk about digital

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

No, this is the mistake that you make. You confuse artificial entities with natural entities. In an artificial entities the functional parts that they contain are 100% knowable by us, because it is us who put them there in the first place. On the other hand, in a natural entity, the functional

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 11:14, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > What is the difference ? Basically, what is the difference between this > machine: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this machine: > >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 5/1/2019 2:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: My point is that "qualia" don't exist independent of an environment, and an evolutionary history. That is ambiguous. A human qualia needs a human history. Human qualia are the only kind we know.  Other qualia, independent of environment and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 5/1/2019 1:53 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I am not sure I understand. By definition, the substitution level take into account all what is relevant. But definitions don't call the definidum into existence.?? Indeed. But I did not use a definition to claim any truth (of existence, or else).

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

What is the difference ? Basically, what is the difference between this machine: and this machine:

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 00:20, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 4/30/2019 3:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 28 Apr 2019, at 22:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 1 May 2019, at 00:15, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 4/30/2019 2:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 28 Apr 2019, at 21:57, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/28/2019 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Indexical Digital

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 30 Apr 2019, at 13:27, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Maybe if you would stop using words that mean something else, people will > actually understand you. What word have you a problem with? Just ask specific question, and avoid ad hominem comment, please. Also, quote

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Whaaa... so magic happens. Santa Claus has been born! And it was so simple... just add a line of code and pufff... the object becomes alive. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )つ──☆*:・ﾟ On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 00:55:09 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/29/2019 11:35 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

As Donald Hoffman says, to take things seriously doesn't mean to take them literally. You take the tiger seriously because you need to survive, in the same way you don't put the blue folder on your computer screen on the recycle bin. Not because there is actually there a blue folder that get

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 2:58 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > To talk about errors is to have a standard of (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧ OBJECTIVE > REALITY > Yes, reality has a way of informing one about what is objectively true and what is not. If you look at a Saber Toothed

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/30/2019 3:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Apr 2019, at 22:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Ok, so how does it appear ? Like this (you're getting kind of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/30/2019 2:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Apr 2019, at 21:57, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 4/28/2019 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Indexical Digital Mechanism, or simply Mechanism, is the idea that we can survive with an artificial brain. It is the idea that my

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/29/2019 11:35 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: On Monday, 29 April 2019 21:09:01 UTC+3, Brent wrote: Ok, so I will make a 2 line computer program that I will connect to a camera: if (signal == 1) { System.out.println("I see red."); } Does this

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You are again attacking a strawman. Only because we cannot create everything, it doesn't mean we cannot create anything. Some things are indeed under our controls. On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 20:32:40 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > *> it means you have the ability to create reality.* >> > > Then

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

To talk about errors is to have a standard of (ﾉ◕*ヮ*◕)ﾉ*:・*ﾟ*✧ OBJECTIVE REALITY ✧*ﾟ*・: **ヽ*(◕*ヮ*◕*ヽ*) on which to refer those errors to. What is the *:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟOBJECTIVE, ABSOLUTE and GOD-GIVEN REALITY**:・*ﾟ* *:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ* behind those evil errors of duck and rabbit ?

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 1:15 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> > > *> The duck-rabbit image shows a lot of profound things.* > It shows that image identification is a difficult task so it's not difficult to make a ambiguous image, and it shows that both

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Since I am a holly spirit and you are a lost soul, it is my duty to bring you on the right path. The duck-rabbit image shows a lot of profound things. But since you have no understanding of consciousness whatsoever, you cannot go at this moment in all the depths and beauty that duck-rabbit

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:42 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Oh, so now you praise yourself for believing in object permanence ? > Pfff... you are going down with each post. > > Even QM showed by Bell's inequalities that there are no

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Oh, so now you praise yourself for believing in object permanence ? Pfff... you are going down with each post. Even QM showed by Bell's inequalities that there are no objective properties until measurement. What will be your next move ? Finally coming out as a believer in Santa Claus ? On

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:31 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> You are behaving like a 5 years old. * > Maybe, but 5 year olds believe in object permanence but infants younger than 7 months don't and neither do you. John K Clark -- You received this message

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You are just showing a collection of pictures that are generated based on certain pre-established rules by human consciousnesses. If computers are so super-duper, why don't you show me a picture with a new colors invented by a computer ? You are so naive that you forget that that system is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You are behaving like a 5 years old. Pathetic. On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 19:28:08 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:52 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > *> All your answers are answered by the duck-rabbit image,* >> > > But you've taught me so

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:52 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> All your answers are answered by the duck-rabbit image,* > But you've taught me so much! You've taught me that just like computers and brains the duck-rabbit image does not exist. Sure I can see the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

All your answers are answered by the duck-rabbit image, because it contains the entire manifestation of consciousness, in the same way that the double-slit contains the entire manifestation of QM. So if you don't understand duck-rabbit, you don't understand anything. On Tuesday, 30 April 2019

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> Aren't you going to answer the things about duck-rabbit image ?* > Aren't you going to work up your courage and try to answer all the questions, or even one, that I asked you in my long post? And I

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> And since a computer cannot bring anything into existence on its own if you > don't specifically put that information in the database, a computer will > never be conscious. https://www.thispersondoesnotexist.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_antenna Telmo. -- You received this

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Aren't you going to answer the things about duck-rabbit image ? You are left with no arguments and instead of accepting the truth, you just go someplace else to preach your religion ? On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 17:54:48 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 5:31 AM Bruno Marchal

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 5:31 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: *> You* [Cosmin Visan] *need to study what is a digital machine. You need > to read the original paper of Turing,* > Bruno you're wasting your time, Cosmin Visan doesn't think computers exist so he's not going to read a paper about them. And

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Maybe if you would stop using words that mean something else, people will actually understand you. Go and take a dictionary and see what "machine" and "number" mean, and them maybe we can talk. What you do is like instead of "eating" you use "dancing" and then you tell people: "I'm hungry,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 12:19, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Sorry, if I want to read fairy-tales I read Harry Potter. AI is a rather > boring fairy-tale. You are quick here. Without such justification. You talk like if you knew the truth, which is (provably in the theology

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 18:37, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > That's how existence is: miraculous. I agree that the existence of the natural numbers is miraculous, because we can prove in elementary logic that we cannot derive them from anything simpler and not

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 15:23, cloudver...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 1:18:44 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 2:42 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > > wrote: > But it happens all the time. How do you think you move your body if not by

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 11:31, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 16:38, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > You are randomly extrapolating. I think this is called "strawman logical > error". Things are not random.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 08:40, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > One interpretation might be that consciousness sends its influence from the > future to the past. Which future? Which past? It is unclear what you assume, and what you drive from the assumption. You take

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 28 Apr 2019, at 22:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: >> Ok, so how does it appear ? > > Like this (you're getting kind of dense). > > I agree that to define the qualia red, the ostensive

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 28 Apr 2019, at 21:57, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Indexical Digital Mechanism, or simply Mechanism, is the idea that we can >> survive with an artificial brain. It is the idea that my consciousness, or >> my

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 12:51, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Yeah, ok, you seem to know everything. Probably you are God or something. I > cannot take seriously people that know everything. I just said that the second theorem of recursion by Kleene solved Descartes’ problem

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 12:26, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > You're just making a mess of concepts gathered from everywhere. A is like B, > $@#$@ is like 423423, Hampty-Dampty is like Harry Potter. Sorry, there can be > no dialogue with you. You need to study what is a

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 28 Apr 2019, at 17:47, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > "Brain" doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. Therefore, > your entire theory is false. That is weird. The fact that the brain does not exist “ontologically” is a consequence of mechanism, so you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Monday, 29 April 2019 21:09:01 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > Ok, so I will make a 2 line computer program that I will connect to a > camera: > > if (signal == 1) { > System.out.println("I see red."); > } > > Does this computer program see red ? > > > No, it would fail the colorblindness test. > >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/28/2019 11:49 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: On Sunday, 28 April 2019 23:50:17 UTC+3, Brent wrote: On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Ok, so how does it appear ? Like this (you're getting kind of dense). You don't really

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You again use your upside down logic in which you start from the existence of computers and conclude your own existence, when in fact you should start from your own existence and conclude the inexistence of computers. Since you exist, you have the properties that existence itself has, namely

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:20 PM 'Cosmin Visan' t < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> Oh, so now when you are faced with a real problem, you start to change > the subject ?* > I humbly submit you're the one changing the subject and pretending I never wrote a long post that you refuse

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Oh, so now when you are faced with a real problem, you start to change the subject ? This is the subject: you say that you just open the eyes and... ***SEE IT***. And I gave you an example: I put in front of you and of a computer the duck-rabbit image and I ask you then to open your eyes and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:00 PM 'Cosmin Visan' t < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > *> What does a computer "see" in the duck-rabbit image ?* > Nothing, because ducks and rabbits don't exist, and neither do computers or images. But don't change the subject, work up your courage and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

What does a computer "see" in the duck-rabbit image ? On Monday, 29 April 2019 18:55:40 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 3:33 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > *there is nothing more to talk about.* > > > I have lots more to talk about but you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 3:33 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > *there is nothing more to talk about.* I have lots more to talk about but you don't because you have no counter argument to my criticisms except for a canned "*fill-in-the-blank* does not exist" and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:38, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:45 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 01:24, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

In case you still don't understand, let me give you another helping hand: If you give to a computer the duck-rabbit image, what it will "see" ? On Sunday, 28 April 2019 20:29:51 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > > I did and I still don't see your point. Yes computers can make observation > -- You

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Then there is nothing more to talk about. You cannot talk with someone that lacks the basic understandings in a field. Is like talking to a blind person about how to jump over obstacles without touching them, and he will continue to repeat that you need to touch them, otherwise how would you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Sunday, April 28, 2019 at 3:50:17 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > Ok, so how does it appear ? > > > Like this (you're getting kind of dense). > > > > > If you show that picture to a rock, does the rock see red ? > > > I

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Sunday, 28 April 2019 23:50:17 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > Ok, so how does it appear ? > > > Like this (you're getting kind of dense). > You don't really understand the question, do you ? > > If you show that picture to a

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

I had the impression that we are discussing about the nature of reality here, not about how to pay bills. On Sunday, 28 April 2019 22:22:11 UTC+3, spudb...@aol.com wrote: > > Brain is what neurosurgeons get paid to work on and what neuroscientists > study. It may all be maya, an illusion, but

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Ok, so how does it appear ? Like this (you're getting kind of dense). If you show that picture to a rock, does the rock see red ? I tried it and the rock had no response, so I conclude it doesn't see read or hear

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/28/2019 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Indexical Digital Mechanism, or simply Mechanism, is the idea that we can survive with an artificial brain. It is the idea that my consciousness, or my first-person experience, is invariant for some functional digital substitution of my brain/body

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Sent: Sun, Apr 28, 2019 11:47 am Subject: Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems "Brain" doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. Therefore, your entire theory is false."Brain" is just a picture that you see in your consciousness, no different than th

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Hitler reacts to idealism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0FOMSA2ZrU -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Ok, so how does it appear ? If you show that picture to a rock, does the rock see red ? On Sunday, 28 April 2019 20:52:41 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > On 4/28/2019 12:00 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > Really ?? See ? That's what a superficial way of thinking does: it makes > you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/28/2019 12:00 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Really ?? See ? That's what a superficial way of thinking does: it makes you think that everything is simple in life and you figure it out everything. Let me give you a hint: And how does that red appears ? Like this: Never

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 7:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> So you have free will if you feel free, and you feel free if you have >> free will. And round and round we go! The only definition I know of "free >> will" that is not circular gibberish is the inability

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

"Brain" doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. Therefore, your entire theory is false. "Brain" is just a picture that you see in your consciousness, no different than the picture "unicorn". Believing in "brain" only because you see it, is like believing in "unicorn" only

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 15:38, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:33 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > The question is about the first person experience, > > I don't want to know what the question is about, I want to know precisely > what the question is.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> > I've asked you this several times before but received no answer, I > ask again, HOW DO YOU KNOW HUMANS ARE CONSCIOUS AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT > COMPUTER'S ARE NOT? > Because consciousnesses have the property of intelligence, while computers don't exist. Is just an idea invented by

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:22:36 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 4:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > *>>> I am a consciousness with free will. * >>> >>> >>Tell me what in hell "free will" is supposed to mean and I'll tell >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Really ?? See ? That's what a superficial way of thinking does: it makes you think that everything is simple in life and you figure it out everything. Let me give you a hint: And how does that red appears ? On Saturday, 27 April 2019 23:12:08 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > When I shine some 700nm

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/27/2019 12:35 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: On Friday, 26 April 2019 21:48:33 UTC+3, Brent wrote: I want to because I am a consciousness with free will. But why do you want this rather than that??? Do the "wants" of your free will just spring up at

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 4:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> *>>> I am a consciousness with free will. * >>> >> >> >>Tell me what in hell "free will" is supposed to mean and I'll tell you >> if I agree with you or not. >> > > *> The feeling of being free.* > So

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Saturday, 27 April 2019 01:38:08 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 10:36 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > >> >> *> I am a consciousness with free will. * >> > > Tell me what in hell "free will" is supposed to mean and I'll tell you if > I

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Friday, 26 April 2019 21:48:33 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > I want to because I am a consciousness with free will. > > > But why do you want this rather than that??? Do the "wants" of your free > will just spring up at random??? Are they unrelated to your situation, > perception, the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Well, then I invite Bruno to go and claim his Nobel prize, because this is a knowledge that definitely worths a Nobel prize. On Friday, 26 April 2019 21:07:22 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > Or people that know things you don't.?? Which is sad since you'll not > learn anything. > > Brent > -- You

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 10:36 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > *> I am a consciousness with free will. * > Tell me what in hell "free will" is supposed to mean and I'll tell you if I agree with you or not. *>>> computers don't get to any answers, they just

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 9:04:46 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 26, 2019, > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift >>> wrote: >>> On Monday, April 22, 2019

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/26/2019 7:36 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: On Friday, 26 April 2019 01:52:19 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM 'Cosmin Visan'?? > wrote: >> it would be perfectly correct to say I scratched my nose because I wanted

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Or people that know things you don't.?? Which is sad since you'll not learn anything. Brent On 4/26/2019 3:51 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Yeah, ok, you seem to know everything. Probably you are God or something. I cannot take seriously people that know everything. On

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Friday, 26 April 2019 01:52:19 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >> > >> it would be perfectly correct to say I scratched my nose because I >>> wanted to, but it would be equally correct to say the nerves

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, April 26, 2019, wrote: > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > The above reminded me of this quote

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Consciousness exists. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 6:19 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > *Sorry, if I want to read fairy-tales I read Harry Potter. AI is a rather > boring fairy-tale.* > You've written quite a few posts in the last few days but they can all be summed up with just 2

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Yeah, ok, you seem to know everything. Probably you are God or something. I cannot take seriously people that know everything. On Friday, 26 April 2019 13:00:52 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Apr 2019, at 22:57, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote:

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