Disproofs of Bell, GHZ, and Hardy Type Theorems and the Illusion of Entanglement

Joy Christian∗ Department of Physics, University of Oxford, Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PU, United Kingdom An elementary top

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:59:38 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:28 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 6:17:30 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gm

Re: Disproofs of Bell, GHZ, and Hardy Type Theorems and the Illusion of Entanglement

On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 8:17:50 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > You might notice that Joy has been riding that hobby horse for 8yrs. Look > for contrary analyses. > > Brent > Let's see; 2018-2010= 8. Do you find her analysis wanting, and if so, how? AG > > On 4/9/2018 7:56 AM, agrays...@gmail.

Re: Disproofs of Bell, GHZ, and Hardy Type Theorems and the Illusion of Entanglement

On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 8:45:42 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 8:17:50 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> You might notice that Joy has been riding that hobby horse for 8yrs. >> Look for contrary analyses. >> >> Brent >> > > Let's see; 2018-2010= 8. Do you fi

Re: Disproofs of Bell, GHZ, and Hardy Type Theorems and the Illusion of Entanglement

On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 11:11:21 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > Joy Christian is a crank. Back in 2010 Moldoveanu and I tore him up. His > idea is a flawed idea of using Clifford algebras, where in effect he > converts a summation into a sum of absolute values. His so called QM is a >

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 2:32:50 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 9 Apr 2018, at 18:19, John Clark > > wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > On 9 Apr 2018, at 03:19, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> Yes, Bruno is terminally confused about non-locality. H

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:50:01 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:59:38 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:28 PM UTC, Law

Re: Disproofs of Bell, GHZ, and Hardy Type Theorems and the Illusion of Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 4:57:35 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 12:16:04 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 11:11:21 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> Joy Christian is a crank. Back in 2010 Moldoveanu and I

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 10:47:22 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 9 Apr 2018, at 18:19, John Clark < johnk...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Bruno Marchal < > mar...@ulb.ac.be > wrote: > > On 9 Apr 2018, at 03:19, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 12:19:04 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 11 Apr 2018, at 00:47, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > > Phenomenologically only. But that non-locality does not allow any physical > influence at a d

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 3:19:36 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:50:01 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:59:38 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC, ag

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 3:34:40 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 12:19:04 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: Bruno Marchal >> >> On 11 Apr 2018, at 00:47, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> From: Bruno Marchal >> >> >> Phenomenologically only. But that

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:26:53 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/12/2018 12:44 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > *Let's simplify the model. Instead of a Nitrogen molecule, consider a free > electron at rest in some frame. Its only degree of freedom is spin IIUC. Is > it your claim tha

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 10:12:58 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:26:53 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/12/2018 12:44 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> *Let's simplify the model. Instead of a Nitrogen molecule, consider a >> free electro

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:32:24 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/12/2018 3:12 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:26:53 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/12/2018 12:44 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> *Let's simplify the model. Instead of a N

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:59:11 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/12/2018 4:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:32:24 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/12/2018 3:12 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:26

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:56:40 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 10:12:58 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:26:53 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/12/2018 12:44 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 3:10:52 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:56:40 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> >> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 10:12:58 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:26:53 PM UTC

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 11:02:03 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 3:10:52 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> >> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:56:40 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 10:12:58 PM UTC,

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 12:48:11 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 11:02:03 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 3:10:52 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:56:40 PM UTC, Bruce w

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 12:48:11 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 11:02:03 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 3:10:52 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:56:40 PM UTC, Bruce w

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 6:53:23 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > *But since the momentum of either particle doesn't pre-exist the > measurement, there is a FTL influence, which IS hard to understand. In > fact, I doubt anyone does understan

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 9:28:02 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 12:24 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 6:53:23 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> *But since the momentum of either particle doe

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 9:53:18 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 2:48 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > What would it mean to "understand it" besides being able to use the >>> equations to make correct inferences? >>> >>> Brent >>> >> >> * It's an ostensible contradiction with

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 10:41:07 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 9:53:18 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/13/2018 2:48 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> What would it mean to "understand it" besides being able to use the equations to make

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:50:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 6:53:23 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> *But

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 1:08:55 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 5:56 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:50:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 2:05:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 6:35 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 1:08:55 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/13/2018 5:56 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:50:

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:39:41 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 7:15 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 2:05:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/13/2018 6:35 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 1:08:5

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:03:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/14/2018 6:04 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > But non-locality is avoided by the randomness...so that no information is >> transmitted. >> > > *So every physicist, I would say virtually without exception, believes QM

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 8:32:17 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:02:47 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:03:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/14/2018 6:04 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 9:17:44 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 8:32:17 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:02:47 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:03:49 PM

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:17:44 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 8:32:17 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> > >>> I have been around the block on these matte

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:30:31 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:17:44 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 8:32:17 PM UTC

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:49:13 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:30:31 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:17:44 PM UTC-5, agrays

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 3:03:42 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:49:13 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:30:31 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC,

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 3:35:01 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 3:03:42 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:49:13 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:30:31 PM UTC,

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 8:01:25 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 9:30:31 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:17:44 PM UTC-5, agrays...@g

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 11:19:22 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 18:05, 'scerir' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > Bruce: > > 'As has been explained, entanglement is the consequence of any interaction > whatsoever. Measurement is just a p

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 3:33:39 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 11 Apr 2018, at 14:19, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > If you believe in influence at a distance, you are the one needing to show > the evidence of that ex

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 4:57:40 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 4:34:11 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> *Don't you think it's somewhat dishonorable to accuse me of "not getting >> it" despite the alleged valiant efforts of you and othe

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 6:21:33 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/16/2018 4:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 20:53, Brent Meeker > > wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > *But since the momentum of either particle doesn't pre-exist the > m

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 4:57:40 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 4:34:11 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> *Don't you think it's somewhat dishonorable to accuse me of "not getting >> it" despite the alleged valiant efforts of you and othe

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:53:05 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 16 Apr 2018, at 05:33, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 11 Apr 2018, at 14:19, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > If you believe in influence at a distance, you

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 6:21:33 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/16/2018 4:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 20:53, Brent Meeker > > wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > *But since the momentum of either particle doesn't pre-exist the > m

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 3:40:09 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 6:21:33 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/16/2018 4:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 20:53, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, agrays...@gma

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 2:42:37 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 17 Apr 2018, at 13:52, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote > > > But note particularly that the spin measurement is made in t

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 10:11:38 PM UTC, smitra wrote: > > On 19-04-2018 22:52, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 2:42:37 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > >> On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett > >> wrote: > >> > >> From: BRUNO MARCHAL > >> > >>

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:30:00 AM UTC, smitra wrote: > > On 20-04-2018 01:38, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 10:11:38 PM UTC, smitra wrote: > > > >> On 19-04-2018 22:52, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > >>> On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 2:42:37 PM UTC, Brun

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:44:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: > > One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the fact that > > the dynamics as described by the Schrödinger equation is local. So, in > > any theory where there is no collapse an

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/19/2018 6:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:44:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: >> > One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the f

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 1:18:32 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 17 Apr 2018, at 13:52, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote > > > But note particula

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:54:37 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/19/2018 6:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:44:04 AM

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 1:18:32 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 17 Apr 2018, at 13:52, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote > > > But note particula

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 4:21:15 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:54:37 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/19/201

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 11:40:13 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 1:18:32 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: Bruno Marchal >> >> On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> From: Bruno Marchal >> >> On 17 Apr 2018, at 13:52, Bruce Kellett wrote >

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 1:04:05 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 7:00:25 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> >> >> *Does entanglement -- which occurs whenever two systems interact -- imply >> non-locality? AG* >> >> >> Not necessarily. If there is a com

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:00:25 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > > > *Does entanglement -- which occurs whenever two systems interact -- imply > non-locality? AG* > > > Not necessarily. If there is a common cause explanation of the > correlation, as in classical physics where particle

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:54:25 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:00:25 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> >> >> *Does entanglement -- which occurs whenever two systems interact -- imply >> non-locality? AG* >> >> >> Not necessarily. If there is

Re: Entanglement

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 3:37:48 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:54:25 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:00:25 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> >>> >>> *Does entanglement -- which occurs whenever

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: > > On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > > On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: > >> One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the fact that > >> the dynamics as described by the Schrödinger equation is local. So,

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 9:07:37 PM UTC, smitra wrote: > > On 21-04-2018 21:44, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: > > > >> On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > >>> On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: > One can a pr

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 6:18:13 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: > > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > >> > >>> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > >>> > >>> On

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 10:35:45 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 6:18:13 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: >> > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 9:07:37 PM UTC, smitra wrote: > > On 21-04-2018 21:44, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: > > > >> On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > >>> On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: > One can a pr

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 7:27:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: > > From: smitra < smi...@zonnet.nl > > > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity >> entangling them, will have an effect on the other, even if the all the >> detai

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 7:27:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: > > From: smitra < smi...@zonnet.nl > > > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity >> entangling them, will have an effect on the other, even if the all the >> detai

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 12:00:05 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 7:27:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: smitra >> >> On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >>> >>> So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity >>> entangling

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 4:19:44 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Apr 2018, at 03:18, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 17 Apr 2018, at 13:52, Bruce Kelle

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 4:19:44 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Apr 2018, at 03:18, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 17 Apr 2018, at 13:52, Bruce Kelle

Re: Entanglement

On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 5:22:48 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 4:19:44 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 20 Apr 2018, at 03:18, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> From: Bruno Marchal >> >> On 18 Apr 2018, at 15:45, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> From: B

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:50:31 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Brent Meeker < meek...@verizon.net > > > > On 4/22/2018 9:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> It follows from both QM and Comp. If Alice and Bob are space-separated, I >> cannot even makes sense of how you can measure correlations,

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 5:53:59 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:50:31 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> >> For Bruno, it seems that "non-locality" means "action at a distance", >> where he interprets that to mean that there is some superluminal transfer >> o

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 8:15:16 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 5:53:59 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:50:31 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> >>> For Bruno, it seems that "non-locality" means "action at a distanc

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 8:58:53 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 5:53:59 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:50:31 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> >>> For Bruno, it seems that "non-locality" means "action at a distance",

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:20:05 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 8:58:53 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 5:53:59 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:50:31 AM UTC, Bruce

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:20:05 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 8:58:53 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 5:53:59 AM UTC, Bru

Re: Entanglement

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:54:15 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:20:05 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 8:58:53 AM UTC, Bruce wrot

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 12:14:06 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:54:15 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> From: >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:20:05 PM UTC, agrays...@gm

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 1:24:14 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 12:14:06 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:54:15 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, agrays...@

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:14:25 AM UTC, scerir wrote: > > According to Kennedy tensor product (in QM) has a very interesting story. > > https://philpapers.org/rec/KENOTE > On the empirical foundations of the quantum no-signalling proofs

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:00:42 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/23/2018 6:00 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > * First Principles, the tensor product can be used to describe the > composite system. It's virtually impossible to find an explanation from > First Principles. AG* > > > It'

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 1:24:14 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: > > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 12:14:06 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:54:15 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: >>> >>> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, agrays...@

Re: Entanglement

ou On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 3:03:21 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 6:54:15 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: >> >> >> Why try worrying these things out for yourself? The easiest thing is to >> go and look up a text book. >> >> Bruce >> > > I second this proposition. A

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 3:30:44 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 3:03:21 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 6:54:15 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> >>> Why try worrying these things out for yourself? The easiest thing is

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 4:10:30 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/24/2018 12:03 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:14:25 AM UTC, scerir wrote: >> >> According to Kennedy tensor product (in QM) has a very interesting story. >> >> https://philpapers.org/

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:57:53 PM UTC, scerir wrote: > > I have a copy of that paper (Kennedy, 1995). > > You can, perhaps, download it here https://files.fm/u/4atdpe6p > > I can also send the pdf privately, by email > > -serafino > I was able to download it, but already paid the 10 buc

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:14:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/24/2018 9:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 4:10:30 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/24/2018 12:03 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:14:25

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:26:59 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:14:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/24/2018 9:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 4:10:30 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/24/

Re: Entanglement

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 7:59:32 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/24/2018 11:48 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:26:59 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:14:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/24/2

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:51:13 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 22 Apr 2018, at 01:47, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: smitra > > > > On 22-04-2018 00:18, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: >> >>> >>> That's t

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 5:48:10 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 8:57:16 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:51:13 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> From: Bruno Marchal >>> >>> On 22 Apr 2018, at 01:47,

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 5:59:50 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 5:48:10 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 8:57:16 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 9:48:44 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/25/2018 12:09 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > Did you not read Bruce's example of a entanglement which didn't imply > > non locality? It was classical elastic scattering where there was no > > uncertainty in momentum

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 4:11:57 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 12:26 PM, > > wrote: > >> *> the MW advocates (Clark, Smitra, et al) who are comfortable ignoring >> the obvious absurdity of the need for creating multiple observers with >> identical memories,* >

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 11:55:34 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 4:11:57 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 12:26 PM, wrote: >> >>> *> the MW advocates (Clark, Smitra, et al) who are comfortable ignoring >>> the obvious

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 2:17:31 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/25/2018 6:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > *On its face it's absurd to think the SoL is invariant for all observers > regardless of the relative motion of source and recipient, but it has > testable consequences. T

Re: Entanglement

On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 4:12:41 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/25/2018 7:44 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 2:17:31 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/25/2018 6:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> *On its face it's absurd to think the So

Re: Entanglement

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:51:13 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Bruno Marchal > > > On 22 Apr 2018, at 01:47, Bruce Kellett < > bhke...@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > > From: smitra > > > > On 22-04-2018 00:18, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: >> >>> >>> That's t

Re: Disclosure Project

Biography of Brigadier General Arthur Ernest Exon http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/104819/brigadier-general-arthur-ernest-exon/ Note that he had a responsible position at Wright Patterson AFB at time of Roswell incident. Later, in 1964, he was appointed commander of the bas

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