Re: The seven step series (december 2009)

2009-12-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
- From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series (december 2009) On 09 Dec 2009, at 01:42, m.a. wrote: Bruno, This is a stupid question but I'm hoping it contains the kernel of an idea

Re: The seven step series (december 2009)

2009-12-10 Thread m.a.
- From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series (december 2009) On 09 Dec 2009, at 01:42, m.a. wrote: Bruno, This is a stupid question but I'm hoping it contains the kernel

Re: The seven step series (december 2009)

2009-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Dec 2009, at 01:42, m.a. wrote: Bruno, This is a stupid question but I'm hoping it contains the kernel of an idea. Since logic is based on a few common definitions, do you really need all these complicated steps and permutations to prove a theory? Why can't you show

Re: The seven step series (december 2009)

2009-12-08 Thread m.a.
, logical statements? marty a. - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list List Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:12 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series (december 2009) Hi, We may be at a cross of the seventh step and Why

Re: The seven step series (december 2009)

2009-12-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, We may be at a cross of the seventh step and Why I am I? thread. Chose your favorite universal system. Like LISP, FORTRAN, the combinators, the diophantine equations, etc. Enumerate in lexicographical order the expressions corresponding to the algorithms of the partial computable function

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Nov 2009, at 17:45, Brent Meeker wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Nov 2009, at 19:52, Brent Meeker wrote: But how is the first person point of view defined? Can this theory tell me how many persons exist at a given time? I come back on this. The question how many persons? is

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Nov 2009, at 19:52, Brent Meeker wrote: But how is the first person point of view defined? Can this theory tell me how many persons exist at a given time? I come back on this. The question how many persons? is a question which remains very hard in the mechanist theory. To answer

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-16 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Nov 2009, at 19:52, Brent Meeker wrote: But how is the first person point of view defined? Can this theory tell me how many persons exist at a given time? I come back on this. The question how many persons? is a question which remains very hard in the

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Nov 2009, at 19:29, Brent Meeker wrote: But this seems like creating a problem where none existed. The factorial is a certain function, the brain performs a certain function. Now you say we will formalize the concept of function in order to study what the brain does and

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-11 Thread Brent Meeker
Rex Allen wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: That's why I say I take it as an ansatz - Let's consider all possible computations and see if we can pick out physics and the brain and consciousness from them. I would think that it's

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-11 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Nov 2009, at 19:29, Brent Meeker wrote: But this seems like creating a problem where none existed. The factorial is a certain function, the brain performs a certain function. Now you say we will formalize the concept of function in order to study what the

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Nov 2009, at 19:52, Brent Meeker wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Nov 2009, at 19:29, Brent Meeker wrote: But this seems like creating a problem where none existed. The factorial is a certain function, the brain performs a certain function. Now you say we will formalize the

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-10 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Nov 2009, at 20:43, Brent Meeker wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi, Let us come back on the seven step thread. Let me recall the initial motivation. The movie graph argument (cf the MGA thread) shows that it is senseless to attach consciousness to the physical

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-10 Thread Rex Allen
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: That's why I say I take it as an ansatz - Let's consider all possible computations and see if we can pick out physics and the brain and consciousness from them. I would think that it's pretty much a given that out

The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, Let us come back on the seven step thread. Let me recall the initial motivation. The movie graph argument (cf the MGA thread) shows that it is senseless to attach consciousness to the physical activity of a brain or a computer. If we keep the computational thesis for the cognitive

Re: The seven step series (november 2009)

2009-11-09 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi, Let us come back on the seven step thread. Let me recall the initial motivation. The movie graph argument (cf the MGA thread) shows that it is senseless to attach consciousness to the physical activity of a brain or a computer. If we keep the computational

Re: The seven step series

2009-10-11 Thread m.a.
- From: John Mikes To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 3:47 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series Bruno, we had similar puzzles in middle school in the 30s. The barber could not shave himself because he shaved only those who did not shave

Re: The seven step series

2009-10-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi John, hi Marty, On 10 Oct 2009, at 21:47, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, we had similar puzzles in middle school in the 30s. The barber could not shave himself because he shaved only those who did not shave themselves (and shaved all). So for (Q #1) in the 1st vriant she(?) was a female,

Re: The seven step series

2009-10-10 Thread John Mikes
Bruno, we had similar puzzles in middle school in the 30s. The barber could not shave himself because he shaved only those who did not shave themselves (and shaved all). So for (Q #1) in the 1st vriant *she(?)* was a female, unless *he(?)* was a beardless male (and the 'all' refers to only the

Re: The seven step series

2009-10-10 Thread m.a.
: John Mikes To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 3:47 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series Bruno, we had similar puzzles in middle school in the 30s. The barber could not shave himself because he shaved only those who did not shave themselves (and shaved

Re: The seven step series

2009-10-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, I am so buzy that I have not the time to give long explanations, so I give here a short exercise and a subject of reflexion instead. Exercise: There is Tyrannic country where by law it was forbidden for any man to have a beard. And there is village, in that country, and it is said that

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, I sum up the definition and results seen so far. N = {0, 1, 2, ...}, the set of natural numbers (also called positive integers). N^N = {f such that f is a function from N to N} = the set of functions from N to N. Universal language: a language in which we can describe formally how

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Sep 2009, at 17:00, I wrote: On the set N^N of all functions from N to N, Cantor diagonal shows that N^N is non enumerable. On the set N-N-comp, the diagonal shows that N^N-comp, although enumerable is non computably enumerable. OK? take the time to swallow this, and ask

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Sep 2009, at 18:17, John Mikes wrote: Dear Bruno, it is not very convincing when you dissect my sentences and interject assuring remarks on statements to come later in the sentence, negating such remarks in advance, on a different basis. I argued that - upon what you (and the

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-18 Thread John Mikes
Yes, Bruno, it helps - however: I did not want to put you into any apology! The list is a free communication among free spirits and controversy is part of it. What I 'read' in your reply still sticks within 'math' and my principal point is: the image represented is STILL what a human mind MAY

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
I give the answer. On 17 Sep 2009, at 16:27, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Sep 2009, at 18:12, Bruno Marchal wrote: If it is OK, in the next post we begin to address the computability issue. I give you an anticipative exercise or subject reflection. This is a deep exercise. Its

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-17 Thread John Mikes
Bruno, I loved your post on the square root of 2! (I also laughed at it, to stay at the puns). You went out of your way and did not save efforts to prove how inadequate and wrong (y)our number system is. (ha ha). Statement: *if square-rooting is right* (allegedly, and admittedly) *then THERE IS

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi John, On 17 Sep 2009, at 15:14, John Mikes wrote: You went out of your way and did not save efforts to prove how inadequate and wrong (y)our number system is. (ha ha). Wrong ? Statement: if square-rooting is right (allegedly, and admittedly) Well, it is certainly right if we

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Sep 2009, at 18:12, Bruno Marchal wrote: If it is OK, in the next post we begin to address the computability issue. I give you an anticipative exercise or subject reflection. This is a deep exercise. Its solution leads to the notion of universal function and universal

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-17 Thread John Mikes
Dear Bruno, it is not very convincing when you dissect my sentences and interject assuring remarks on statements to come later in the sentence, negating such remarks in advance, on a different basis. I argued that - upon what you (and the rest of the multimillion mathematicians past and

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
I give the solution. On 15 Sep 2009, at 16:30, Bruno Marchal wrote: OK? Take your time to compare with the last post, and to understand what happens. Training exercise: prove, using that notation, that 2^N is non enumerable. Hint: use a slightly different g. 2^N is non enumerable.

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-15 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, I will introduce notation for functions, and prove again Cantor theorem, without making any diagram. I will lazily write the diagram 0 = 34, 6, 678, 0, 6, 77, 8, 9, 39, 67009, ... 1 = 0, 677, 901, 1, 67, 8, 768765, 56, 9, 9, ... 2 = 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128,

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Sep 2009, at 09:21, Bruno Marchal wrote: Next post: Cantor theorem(s). There is NO bijection between N and N^N. I will perhaps show that there is no bijection between N and {0, 1}^N. The proof can easily be adapted to show that there is no bijection between N and many sets.

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
This is the last post before we proof Cantor theorem. It is an antic interlude. We are about 2000 years back in time. The square root of 2. It is a number x such that x^2 = 2. It is obviously smaller than 2 and bigger than 1. OK? It cannot be a natural number. But could it be a fraction?

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, I want to add something. I said recently to John that the excluded middle principle should be seen as a tolerance-of-ignorance principle. Actually this will play an important role later, and it justifies the arithmetical realism: what it is, and why it is important. Let me illustrate

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Aug 2009, at 19:31, Bruno Marchal wrote: Next: I will do some antic mathematic, and prove the irrationality of the square root of two, for many reasons, including some thought about what is a proof. And then I will prove Cantor theorem. Then I will define what is a computable

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-08 Thread m.a.
Subject: Re: The seven step series On 31 Aug 2009, at 19:31, Bruno Marchal wrote: Any question, any comment? I guess that I am too quick for some, too slow for others. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:43 AM Subject: Re: The seven step series On 31 Aug 2009, at 19:31, Bruno Marchal wrote: Any question, any comment? I guess that I am too quick for some, too slow for others. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-02 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
Bruno Marchal wrote: Ouh la la ... Mirek, You may be right, but I am not sure. You may verify if this was not in a intuitionist context. Without the excluded middle principle, you may have to use countable choice in some situation where classical logic does not, but I am not sure.

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Sep 2009, at 17:16, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Ouh la la ... Mirek, You may be right, but I am not sure. You may verify if this was not in a intuitionist context. Without the excluded middle principle, you may have to use countable choice in some situation

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-01 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
Hi Bruno, I am puzzled by one thing. Is the Axiom of dependent choice (DC) assumed implicitly somewhere here or is it obvious that there is no need for it (so far)? Thanks! mirek --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Mirek, On 01 Sep 2009, at 12:25, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: I am puzzled by one thing. Is the Axiom of dependent choice (DC) assumed implicitly somewhere here or is it obvious that there is no need for it (so far)? I don't see where I would have use it, and I don't think I will use

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-01 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
The reason why I am puzzled is that I was recently told that in order to prove that * the union of countably many countable sets is countable one needs to use at least the Axiom of Countable Choice (+ ZF, of course). The same is true in order to show that * a set A is infinite if and only if

Re: The seven step series

2009-09-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
Ouh la la ... Mirek, You may be right, but I am not sure. You may verify if this was not in a intuitionist context. Without the excluded middle principle, you may have to use countable choice in some situation where classical logic does not, but I am not sure. I know that in intuitionist

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
I give the solution to the last exercises. On 26 Aug 2009, at 19:06, Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi, I sum up, a little bit, and then I go quickly, just to provide some motivation for the sequel. We have seen the notion of set. We have seen examples of finite sets and infinite sets. For

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, I sum up, a little bit, and then I go quickly, just to provide some motivation for the sequel. We have seen the notion of set. We have seen examples of finite sets and infinite sets. For example the sets A = {0, 1, 2}, B = {2, 3} are finite. The set N = {0, 1, 2, 3, ...} is

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-22 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
m.a. wrote: a towel into the ring. I simply don't have the sort of mind that takes to juggling letters, numbers and symbols in increasingly fine-grained, complex arrangements. [...] Marty, If I can ask, I'd be really interested what do you think of this socratic experiment

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-22 Thread m.a.
. marty a. - Original Message - From: Mirek Dobsicek m.dobsi...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 11:05 AM Subject: Re: The seven step series Marty, If I can ask, I'd be really interested what do you think of this socratic

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Aug 2009, at 01:24, meekerdb @dslextreme.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Bruno Marchalmarc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi, I give the solution of the first of the last exercises. ... This motivates the definition of the following function from N to N, called factorial.

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-21 Thread m.a.
, marty a. - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:47 AM Subject: Re: The seven step series On 21 Aug 2009, at 01:24, meekerdb

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:47 AM Subject: Re: The seven step series On 21 Aug 2009, at 01:24, meekerdb @dslextreme.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Bruno Marchalmarc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, I give the solution of the first of the last exercises. I reason aloud. I go slowly for those who did not get some math courses, or just forget them. I cannot stress the importance of the notion of bijection in the mathematical discovery of the universal machine (the quote means

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-20 Thread meekerdb @dslextreme.com
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Bruno Marchalmarc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi, I give the solution of the first of the last exercises. ... This motivates the definition of the following function from N to N, called factorial. factorial(0) = 1, and factorial(n) = n*(n-1)*(n-2)*(n-3) * ... *1,

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, Just a reminder, for me, and perhaps some training for you. In preparation to the mathematical discovery of the universal machine. exercises: 1) count the number of bijections from a set A to itself. (= card{x such that x is bijection from A to A}) 2) describe some canonical

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Aug 2009, at 23:03, meekerdb @dslextreme.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Bruno Marchalmarc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi, Just a reminder, for me, and perhaps some training for you. In preparation to the mathematical discovery of the universal machine. exercises: ...

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
Brent, I said: this is food for Friday and the week-end, and you provide already the solutions! It is OK, and you are correct. Thanks for playing. I add short comments. I have not much time till monday, and I intend to come back on some issues. I will comment the important recent post by

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Aug 2009, at 19:55, Bruno Marchal wrote: 1) Convince yourself that if A and B are finite sets, then there exists a bijection between A and B if and only if card(A) = card(B). Only you can convince yourself. I try to help by going very slowly, but people should really mind it y

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-13 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: ... 4) Key questions for the sequel, on which you can meditate: - is there a bijection between N and NxN? (NxN = the cartesian product of N with N) - is there a bijection between N and N^N? You're making me think, Bruno. :-) A bijection

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-13 Thread Brian Tenneson
There is an explicit formula that maps N onto Q.. I found it some years back. Brent Meeker wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: ... 4) Key questions for the sequel, on which you can meditate: - is there a bijection between N and NxN? (NxN = the cartesian product of N with N) - is there a

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Aug 2009, at 22:24, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: Well, A^B is the set of functions from B to A. By definition of set exponentiation. I'd just like to point out that Bruno in his previous post in the seven step serii made a small typo A^B - the set of all functions from A to B. It

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-11 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
3) compute { } ^ { } and card({ } ^ { }) If card(A) = n, and card(B) = m. What is card(A^B)? I find it neat to write | {} ^ {} | = | { {} } | = 1 :-) It's almost like ASCII art. Just wanted to signal that I'm following. mirek --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Aug 2009, at 15:32, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: 3) compute { } ^ { } and card({ } ^ { }) If card(A) = n, and card(B) = m. What is card(A^B)? I find it neat to write | {} ^ {} | = | { {} } | = 1 :-) You will make panic those who are not familiar with symbols! It's almost like ASCII

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Aug 2009, at 22:24, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: Well, A^B is the set of functions from B to A. By definition of set exponentiation. I'd just like to point out that Bruno in his previous post in the seven step serii made a small typo A^B - the set of all functions from A to B. I

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Mirek, On 05 Aug 2009, at 00:52, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: I've ordered the dialogue from a second-hand book shop :-) The Stanford encyclopedia says Arguably, it is his (Plato) greatest work on anything. So I'll give it a try :-) I love that book, and it is also my favorite piece of

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-05 Thread John Mikes
Bruno, just to take off some mal-deserved feathers: I think Theaetetus has two different 'e' sounds one after the other (anybody can pronounce him better?) and in Hungarian we have them (' e ' like in 'have' and e' like in 'take') with a 3rd variation where the accent is not applied: a closed and

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-04 Thread John Mikes
Bruno and Mirek, concerning Theateticus vs. Theaeteticus: in my strange linguistic background I make a difference betwee ai and ae - the spelling in Greek and Latin of the name. As far as I know, nobody knows for sure how did the 'ancient' Greeks pronounce their ai - maybe as the flat 'e' like

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-04 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
Come on Mirek: Theaetetical is an adjective I have forged from Theatetus. Theatetus gives 195.000 results on Google. Theatetus wiki 4310. Of course, after all you reference the dialogue Theaetetus in your papers thus one can easily match the word Theaetetical agains it. Let me quickly

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
John, Thanks for those informations. I thought that the æ was just a french, if not an old french, usage. Note that when I wrote Theatetus, it is just a mispelling. I tend to forget that second e, but your remark will help me to remind it. Note that Miles Burnyeat, in his book The

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Mirek, Long and perhaps key post. On 04 Aug 2009, at 15:32, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: Come on Mirek: Theaetetical is an adjective I have forged from Theatetus. Theatetus gives 195.000 results on Google. Theatetus wiki 4310. Of course, after all you reference the dialogue Theaetetus in

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-04 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
Hi Bruno, Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi Mirek, Long and perhaps key post. Thank you a lot for a prompt and long reply. I am digesting it :-) Just some quick comments. There is no shame in being ignorant. Only in staying ignorant :) I've ordered the dialogue from a second-hand book shop :-)

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Aug 2009, at 23:20, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: I am in a good mood and a bit picky :-) Do you know how many entries google gave me upon entering Theaetetical -marchal -bruno Well 144? Good way to find my papers on that. The pages refer quickly to this list or the FOR list. I am

Re: The seven step series

2009-08-02 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
I am in a good mood and a bit picky :-) Do you know how many entries google gave me upon entering Theaetetical -marchal -bruno Well 144? Good way to find my papers on that. The pages refer quickly to this list or the FOR list. I am sorry for the delay, I've just got back from my

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Jul 2009, at 21:52, Brent Meeker wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Jul 2009, at 13:38, David Nyman wrote: ... be conceived for this purpose to be 'sequentially resolving' each 'OM-programme-step'? Indeed my understanding is that this dovetailed sequentiality is actually a key

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Jul 2009, at 19:15, David Nyman wrote: On 29 July, 17:32, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Gosh, David, you are a champion for the difficult questions. Merci maitre, but I really only meant this rhetorically! Oh! I was a bit rhetorical myself. On behalf of the One Here

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-30 Thread David Nyman
2009/7/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: Here you are very rhetorical. You could even be close to being comp- blasphemous. Ah, but is there comp-excommunication? I should have use third party, but my hands did not cooperate; when I type, they are too quick for my brain to follow. So

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Jul 2009, at 14:00, David Nyman wrote: 2009/7/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: Here you are very rhetorical. You could even be close to being comp- blasphemous. Ah, but is there comp-excommunication? If comp is true, nature does it eventually. But it can take a long time. This

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-30 Thread John Mikes
Hi, Bruno, let me skip the technical part and jump on the following text. *F u n c t i o n* as I believe is - for you - the y = f(x) *form*. For me: the *activity -* shown when plotting on a coordinate system the f(x) values of the Y-s to the values on the x-axle resulting in a relation (curve).

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi John, and the other. John motivates me to explain what is a function, for a mathematician. On 30 Jul 2009, at 17:53, John Mikes wrote: Hi, Bruno, let me skip the technical part OK. But I remind you this current thread *is* technical. and jump on the following text. F u n c t i o n

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-29 Thread David Nyman
2009/7/28 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: Now, the question why this 1-OM and not that other one, is like the questions: - why do I feel myself in W, and not in M which is very natural for the one going out at W. - why do I feel myself in M, and not in W which is very natural for the

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
Ronald, On 28 Jul 2009, at 12:51, ronaldheld wrote: Bruno: I meant the mathematical formalism you are teaching us. When we eventually get to the UDA steps, I wil be better able to do that assessment. OK. Note that the first 6 steps have already be done recently, with Kim, and even

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
SOLUTIONS OK. I give the solution of the exercises of the last session, on the cartesian product of sets. I recall the definition of the product A X B. A X B= {(x,y) such that x belongs to A and y belongs to B} I gave A = {0, 1}, and B = {a, b}. In this case, A X B = {(0,a), (0,

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Jul 2009, at 20:06, Brent Meeker wrote: David Nyman wrote: 2009/7/28 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: snip David Nyman wrote: However I have a wacky intuition: despite the platonic criterion of co-existence, 1-person experience of the temporal dynamism (i.e. sequentiality) of the

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-29 Thread David Nyman
On 29 July, 17:32, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Gosh, David, you are a champion for the difficult questions. Merci maitre, but I really only meant this rhetorically! On behalf of the One I assume that the cavalcade would be the preferable alternative. I like your answer though.

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-29 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Jul 2009, at 20:06, Brent Meeker wrote: David Nyman wrote: 2009/7/28 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: snip David Nyman wrote: However I have a wacky intuition: despite the platonic criterion of co-existence, 1-person experience of the temporal dynamism (i.e.

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:56, David Nyman wrote: 2009/7/27 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: Actually, the real axiom is a self-duplicability principle. According to the duplicability, you will have the whole of AUDA remaining correct and even complete, at the propositional level, for many

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-28 Thread ronaldheld
-- Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series Marty, Brent wrote: On 21 Jul 2009, at 23:24, Brent Meeker wrote: Take all strings of length 2 00             01

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-28 Thread David Nyman
2009/7/28 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: You could say, for example, at any point to go further you would need a deeper grasp of x, but for now, it has this or that role or function in the overall story - or something like that. I'd be very grateful - and attentive. I think that you

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-28 Thread m.a.
, Chief Ignoramus - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:54 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series We have discovered SBIJECTION between

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-28 Thread Brent Meeker
David Nyman wrote: 2009/7/28 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: You could say, for example, at any point to go further you would need a deeper grasp of x, but for now, it has this or that role or function in the overall story - or something like that. I'd be very grateful - and attentive.

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Jul 2009, at 13:38, David Nyman wrote: Actually, I do follow the first six steps of the UD reasoning; my own 'beam me up, Scotty' reasoning had led me to similar conclusions. So, no problem with this. But I do have trouble grasping what is, I think, a different aspect of the

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Jul 2009, at 17:36, m.a. wrote: Bruno, I have searched my notes for an exposition of BIJECTION and found only one mention in an early email which promises to define it in a later lesson. Do you have a reference to that lesson or perhaps an instant explanation of it?

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 27 Jul 2009, at 03:04, m.a. wrote: Bruno, I am indeed ready to pursue further and since we'll be covering both topics anyhow, I would prefer that you choose which would be the most natural next step for us. Hmm... The problem is that it is natural or not according to

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 27 Jul 2009, at 16:25, David Nyman wrote: On 27 July, 09:46, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: ... yet, the shadows of braids and links(*) appear somehow in the two matter hypostases, and this in a context where space (not juts time) has to be a self-referential context, in that

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
-- Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: Re: The seven step series Marty, Brent wrote: On 21 Jul 2009, at 23:24, Brent Meeker wrote: Take all strings of length 2 00 01 10

Re: The seven step series

2009-07-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi, OK, I will come back on the square root of 2 later. We have talked on sets. Sets have elements, and elements of a set define completely the set, and a set is completely defined by its elements. Example: here is a set of numbers {1, 2, 3} and a set of sets of numbers {{1, 2}, {3}, { }}.

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-27 Thread David Nyman
2009/7/27 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: Actually, the real axiom is a self-duplicability principle. According to the duplicability, you will have the whole of AUDA remaining correct and even complete, at the propositional level, for many gods (non emulable entities). The theology of the

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-26 Thread m.a.
://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125645.800-you-are-made-of-spacetime.html?full=true - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Seven Step Series I ask to all those who told me

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 24 Jul 2009, at 17:00, Bruno Marchal wrote: 1 divided by any number bigger than 1 is always a number little than 1. With decimal they begin by 0.something. I mean SMALLER THAN 1. Sorry. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-25 Thread m.a.
Bruno, One of my fundamental problems evidently has been a misconception of the use of exponents (see below in bold). - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:37 AM Subject: Re: Seven Step

Re: Seven Step Series

2009-07-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
, it will be an opportunity to make revision, Best to all of you, Bruno - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:37 AM Subject: Re: Seven Step Series On 23 Jul 2009, at 05:44, m.a. wrote: if a is a number, usually

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