Re: consciousness

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:23 AM, selva kumar wrote: > Is consciousness causally effective ? > > If it is not causally effective, then you must explain what caused the word "consciousness" to enter our lexicon and what caused the field of pihlosophy of mind, and all the various books on the subjec

Re: consciousness

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:23 AM, selva kumar wrote: > >> Is consciousness causally effective ? >> >> > If it is not causally effective, then you must explain what caused the word > "consciousness" to enter our lexicon and what caused the

Re: consciousness

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 01 Jul 2011, at 13:23, selva kumar wrote: > > Is consciousness causally effective ? >> >> I found this question in previous threads,but I didn't find a answer. >> > > Was it in the FOR list (on the book Fabric of reality by David Deutsc

Re: consciousness

On Jul 1, 4:23 pm, selva kumar wrote: > Is consciousness causally effective ? > > I found this question in previous threads,but I didn't find a answer. I believe consciousness is a monitoring system (aka awareness) When our hand is moved obeying some computations,there is a ON-SCREEN DISPLAY g

Re: consciousness

I believe I oversimplified things in my previous post.But it is sort of what I believe in. On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:06 PM, selva wrote: > > > On Jul 1, 4:23 pm, selva kumar wrote: > > Is consciousness causally effective ? > > > > I found this question in previous threads,but I didn't find a an

Re: consciousness

I believe consciousness is a carrier signal like the faint hum we hear when a radio station is on but silent. It is modulated like a radio signal by sensory input from external and internal sources. All animals have it but only man with his abstract reasoning ability is able to theorize its exi

Re: consciousness

On 02 Jul 2011, at 21:24, B Soroud wrote: "A property of consciousness is" it sounds like you are reifying "consciousness"... consciousness is not a thing in itself, consciousness does not exist in and of itself... it can only be understood within the interdependent and complex framework

Re: Is consciousness causally effective ?

On 02 Jul 2011, at 22:05, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Bruno, From: Bruno Marchal Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Is consciousness causally effective ? Hi Stephen, On 02 Jul 2011, at 16:53, Stephen Paul King wrote: [SPK] Could you

Re: consciousness

On 02 Jul 2011, at 23:10, B Soroud wrote: a question I want to pose to the community as well as Bruno is: Bruno, have you ever seriously studied Nietzsche... he is probably the single most persuasive critic of Platonism that has ever existed. By platonism I just mean the idea that ideas ar

Re: consciousness

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:35 AM, selva kumar wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:23 AM, selva kumar wrote: >> >>> Is consciousness causally effective ? >>> >>> >> If it is not causally effective, then you must explain what caused th

Re: consciousness

On 03 Jul 2011, at 00:55, John Mikes wrote: Dear Bruno, here we go again A very colorful discussion about that darn consciousness, indeed, as it develops. I find YOUR scholarly text a bit skewed (Goedel and Goedel) since math logic is IMO a product of human(!) consciousness. This is

Re: consciousness

I have no problem with that theory. It seems to assume comp, and so yopu still have to explain matter from the number. But consciousness can perhaps be implemented in the human brain in the way you describe. The advantage of taking the machine discourse on itself is that it explains the why

Re: consciousness

On 03 Jul 2011, at 09:51, selva kumar wrote: On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jul 2011, at 13:23, selva kumar wrote: Is consciousness causally effective ? I found this question in previous threads,but I didn't find a answer. Was it in the FOR list (on the boo

Re: group

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:44 AM, Constantine Pseudonymous wrote: > it seems to me that there are certain preconditions that need to be in > place in order for us to exist, and that furthermore and taking a step > back, those preconditions necessitate further preconditions to have > been in place in

Re: group

Your interpretation of mathematics isn't even worth responding to, but your critique of preconditions is pretty interesting... It seems like you're saying that there are no actual preconditions, there is only flow and transformation + a zenos paradox Necesitating symbolic thought to combat the

Re: group

On 7/3/2011 11:46 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:44 AM, Constantine Pseudonymous mailto:bsor...@gmail.com>> wrote: it seems to me that there are certain preconditions that need to be in place in order for us to exist, and that furthermore and taking a step back,

Re: consciousness

On 7/3/2011 8:56 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:35 AM, selva kumar > wrote: On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:23 AM, selva kumar mailto:selvakr1...@

Re: consciousness

On 7/3/2011 1:36 AM, selva wrote: On Jul 1, 4:23 pm, selva kumar wrote: Is consciousness causally effective ? I found this question in previous threads,but I didn't find a answer. I believe consciousness is a monitoring system (aka awareness) When our hand is moved obeying some co

Re: group

I fully agree with Brent, plus, 1 is just a generic name for a thing, 2 is just a generic name or generalized symbol for two things If you put two things next to each other, call one one and the other two and say that the name for two ones is two. That is just a kind of language game and ta

Re: consciousness

Are you guys joking Other beings then humans have consciousness and they dint philosophize about it It is some other principle that is the "cause". On Sunday, July 3, 2011, meekerdb wrote: > > > > > > > On 7/3/2011 8:56 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:35 AM, selva

Re: consciousness

On Jul 3, 2011, at 4:46 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 7/3/2011 8:56 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:35 AM, selva kumar wrote: On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:23 AM, selva kumar wrote: Is consciousness causally effective

Re: consciousness

"if you are thinking about consciousness, then what else could it have been but consciousness that caused you to think about it" Are you saying consciousness literally causes you to objectify consciousness? Consciousness as a base is required to reflect on consciousness... the question is whether

Re: consciousness

correction, "or in so far as something does cause you to reflect on the figment consciousness" not "are in so far as something does cause you to reflect on the figment consciousness" On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:32 PM, B Soroud wrote: > "if you are thinking about consciousness, then what else could

Re: consciousness

On 7/3/2011 7:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Jul 3, 2011, at 4:46 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 7/3/2011 8:56 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:35 AM, selva kumar > wrote: On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jason Resc

Re: consciousness

I just realized that for some reason only half of these posts show up in my e-mail… Bruno, you speak of self-consciousness… do you mean body-image? Or do you mean abstract self-recognition? Or the tendency towards false identification? Or body relation/identification in a combative framework? It s

Re: consciousness

"We can never experience pure consciousness because we can never silence the continuous influx of sensory data;" This is debatable, I have heard of a certain toxic substance extracted from fogs in Haiti, that if administered, results in a effect that is said to be a total dislocation and abstractio

Re: consciousness

“It sound more like you are reifing body and system.” Would you rather me rarefy it? “Consciousness here and now is accepted by many as the most undoubtable truth” That to which you point by the indicator consciousness, observe that… it is not a clear and defined perception, it is not a clearly del

Re: consciousness

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:32 PM, B Soroud wrote: > "if you are thinking about consciousness, then what else could it have been > but consciousness that caused you to think about it" > > Are you saying consciousness literally causes you to objectify > consciousness? Consciousness as a base is requ

Re: consciousness

“By platonism I just mean the idea that ideas are primary and matter is generated by the ideas.” So rather than ideas being generated by some deterministic and mechanical materialism… which would be absurd…. You invert the proposition? Do you literally mean matter is generated by ideas? In some dir

Re: consciousness

this might arouse your interest a bit but remember Nietzsche's critique of Plato is comprehensive and voluminous, utterly unprecedented in its breath and depth: How the True WorldFinally Became An Fable: The History of an Error 1. The true world -- attainable for the sage, the pious, the virt

Re: consciousness

Bruno, what makes you think that mathematics can apply to anything beyond the physical world, is not mathematics restricted to the domain of the physical world it doesn't apply to the qualitative metaphysical domain of anima- psyche. On Jul 3, 9:54 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > I have no proble

Re: consciousness

"And in any case, the elan vital was endlessly debate for centuries and was eventually discarded as nonexistent." perhaps erroneously... such as perhaps "ether" was erroneously discarded. Perhaps many things were erroneously negated Jung talks of "psychic forces" it seems like a evocative and

Re: consciousness

"Mathematics is causally inert. Yet it's existence is debatable and it's certainly interesting to discuss." the problem with mathematics is that it lacks potency, in actuality, in and of itself. Sound exhibits tremendous potency. Do you think of mathematics as a subset of thought/language? On Ju

Re: consciousness

how do you leap from non-doer to non-doing and unconsciousness? On Jul 3, 10:30 pm, Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:32 PM, B Soroud wrote: > > "if you are thinking about consciousness, then what else could it have been > > but consciousness that caused you to think about it" > > >

Re: consciousness

Oh yeah and in response to Bruno's supposed apriori platonic forms... a doctrine that Plato himself probably didn't believe in. I want to assert that all mathematics is based on linguistical operations dependent on the social context of thinking minds and self-constructed extensions/glyphs abst