Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Thanks Richard! Just curious. I'm going to take a mental health day as it is sunny outside and I hope you do too - actually, you might think about taking a mental health week or two, given the number of monkeys that have been flying out your ass. Monkeys can't fly, Emily, whether out of my ass or anywhere else. But, I'd say the chances of a monkey flying are better odds than Fred Lenz levitating up in the air in a cloud of golden light, even one inch.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
*You* stated that monkeys were flying and levitating, both, out of your rear end. You stated it so many times that it seemed you were, in fact, stuck in this delusion. For all your focus on Fred Lenz, you appear not to have read any of the first-hand experiences of the many students that experienced what they say they did. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion that he is a magician. He's dead now, so you won't be able to check it out yourself, personally, with him. What is your point in obsessing on dead Fred? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : Thanks Richard! Just curious. I'm going to take a mental health day as it is sunny outside and I hope you do too - actually, you might think about taking a mental health week or two, given the number of monkeys that have been flying out your ass. Monkeys can't fly, Emily, whether out of my ass or anywhere else. But, I'd say the chances of a monkey flying are better odds than Fred Lenz levitating up in the air in a cloud of golden light, even one inch.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/29/2014 12:30 PM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: What is your point in obsessing on dead Fred? My point is that Barry is a True Believer.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Ohh, finally, your point. Well, I was happy recently that Judy a definition of what a True Believer is. I liked it. Are you a True Believer per the definition below? I am definitely not one. True Believers tend to believe in Absolutist terms (either l00% true or 100% false) and they can't tolerate situations in which: a. the truth is unknown b. the truth is midway between extremes c. simply unknowable d. variants such as true some of the time, but at other times not true, or true for some people but not others.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 11:13 PM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: No, I was talking to you Richard. The thread is about Barry and 2nd stage flying - I'm just a basic TMer, I'm not a believer in the TMSP or levitation. I was simply wondering whether or not you thought you might be, or might have been, susceptible to mind control, etc. as a willing participant who believed, at least initially, in the teacher they had signed on with. The answer is no - I've never been brain-washed into giving thousands of dollars to a cult leader and then been under his mind-control to the point that my brain went into a trance-induction state and I hallucinated that I saw Fred Lenz levitate hundreds of times. If that had happened to me, I wouldn't reveal it one a public discussion group and post it in the attempt to look spiritually superior to others. And, I don't think I would go around tacking up posters and handing out flyers advertising such an event. Rama was a sick man, but at the time and given the context, I can imagine that many would have been, and did, in fact, believe in his message, and also, for whatever the reason, did perceive him as levitating. Real is usually in the eye of the beholder. Ask Share. We all share a common reality, Emily - most of us know when something is real or when we are hallucinating, even in a large group of people at a movie. Obviously, the cult members were drugged. The question is: Why would one of the cult members join a spiritual discussion group and try to convince us that their experience was real, WHEN EVERYONE KNOWS IT WAS EITHER FALSE OR A DRUG-INDUCED HALLUCINATION. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed *was* real. We saw it. We felt it. - TurquoiseB ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 6:50 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: You didn't answer my question, Richard. We are talking about you here. We are talking about Barry, who claimed on FFL that he saw Rama in the 2nd stage of levitation, hundreds of times.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Thanks Richard! Just curious. I'm going to take a mental health day as it is sunny outside and I hope you do too - actually, you might think about taking a mental health week or two, given the number of monkeys that have been flying out your ass. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:13 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: No, I was talking to you Richard. The thread is about Barry and 2nd stage flying - I'm just a basic TMer, I'm not a believer in the TMSP or levitation. I was simply wondering whether or not you thought you might be, or might have been, susceptible to mind control, etc. as a willing participant who believed, at least initially, in the teacher they had signed on with. The answer is no - I've never been brain-washed into giving thousands of dollars to a cult leader and then been under his mind-control to the point that my brain went into a trance-induction state and I hallucinated that I saw Fred Lenz levitate hundreds of times. If that had happened to me, I wouldn't reveal it one a public discussion group and post it in the attempt to look spiritually superior to others. And, I don't think I would go around tacking up posters and handing out flyers advertising such an event. Rama was a sick man, but at the time and given the context, I can imagine that many would have been, and did, in fact, believe in his message, and also, for whatever the reason, did perceive him as levitating. Real is usually in the eye of the beholder. Ask Share. We all share a common reality, Emily - most of us know when something is real or when we are hallucinating, even in a large group of people at a movie. Obviously, the cult members were drugged. The question is: Why would one of the cult members join a spiritual discussion group and try to convince us that their experience was real, WHEN EVERYONE KNOWS IT WAS EITHER FALSE OR A DRUG-INDUCED HALLUCINATION. Where is Dr. Pete when we need him? The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed *was* real. We saw it. We felt it. - TurquoiseB ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 6:50 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: You didn't answer my question, Richard. We are talking about you here. We are talking about Barry, who claimed on FFL that he saw Rama in the 2nd stage of levitation, hundreds of times.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
A hundred monkeys just flew out of my butt, for REAL. Has this ever happened to anyone else? Help me, someone, anyone, for God's sake,please, help me! On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:47 AM, pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Monkeys are flying out of my butt. For REAL! So, I wonder why nobody else ever reported these momentous events on Sci-Skeptic. Go figure. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.skeptic ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@n... wrote: Unc, other than one other response to this thread (the one who said his brother did it pre-TM 20 feet down the road or something like that), you are the very first person who I have ever heard of that has claimed to have witnessed first-hand actual levitation. As such, I feel compelled to ask you for much more detail to your experience, please. No problem. When did this happen? Dozens of times -- probably more like hundreds, actually -- over a 14-year period starting in 1981. Where? Actual city/state and location (i.e. house, ashram, type of room, etc.) Dozens of locations. The first time, in the Los Angeles Convention Center. In the buildings we were using for our weekly meetings. In the desert. Once in a Denny's in the dead of night when no customers or waiters were around. :-) Did you experience it only once? Nope. Many times. As did most of the other students who studied with the guy. I will also emphasise, for the record, the word most. Some people (10-15) never saw anything; others (1000s over the years, sometimes 500 at once) saw this stuff all the time. Therefore, it would appear to be a phenomenon that is not entirely physical, and takes place at least to some extent on subtle physical levels. If you're asking whether it was ever recorded on film, I don't think so, and I don't know whether it could have been. But it was neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and as a field of energy to be part of. The latter was the real benefit of being around someone who is doing this, IMO. Who exactly did the levitating. Rama. Dr. Frederick Lenz. Crazy Fred. As far as I know, he never practiced any techniques to make it happen. As he explained it, he just woke up one day and remembered how to do it. Something from a past life. He never taught how to do it to any of his students, as far as I know. Was it photographed/videotaped and if not, why not? No, and I don't know why not. He didn't believe very much in trying to document any of the things he could do. His theory was that this stuff is hard enough to believe if it's happening right in front of your face in the same room you are in (a statement I can attest to the truth of). So who's going to believe a videotape? Because some people saw this phenomenon and others in the same room did not, I have my doubts that it would have been captured on videotape. What was the circumstances of the manifestation, that is, was it in front of many people, just yourself...was the lighting and the surroundings such that it couldn't be faked, etc. All the settings mentioned before, so setup or prep required. In the one at Denny's a bunch of us were sitting around one of those round tables at 4:00 in the morning and all the waitresses disappeared, probably to grab a quick cigarette in the kitchen, and he smiled and just lifted up off the naugahyde diner seat and hovered there for about 30 seconds, grinning to beat all. :-) I ask this because on my last trip to Las Vegas I visited one of those magic kiosks where they sell magic tricks and I actually saw a magician demonstate a trick that he was selling to the public in which he makes a coin levitate and spin right in front of you (and for the hell of it, I could NOT figure out how he did it but I DO know that it was some sort of magic technique and NOT actual levitation). My roommate during my last year with the TM organization was an airbrush artist who did costumes for Doug Henning. So Doug would come over to the house a lot and would show us some close-up magic. I know he was most famous for his big stage effects, but the man's real genius was with his close-up magic. I was two feet in front of him, able to move around and look at his hands from any angle I chose, and I still couldn't figure out how he did it. I will admit for the sake of intellectual openness that some trick could have been involved in what Rama did, but I honestly don't think there was any. The variety of the settings and the spontaneity with which he'd decide to do this stuff disallows any preparation or equipment. I will also admit, for the same reasons, that there might have been some kind of psychic siddhi going on, in which people's perceptions were altered to allow them to see a phenomenon that might not have been present on a physical level. But there was never any
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Now about a hundred monkeys are levitating out my butt. Why won't somebody help me? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : A hundred monkeys just flew out of my butt, for REAL. Has this ever happened to anyone else? Help me, someone, anyone, for God's sake,please, help me! On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:47 AM, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote: Monkeys are flying out of my butt. For REAL! So, I wonder why nobody else ever reported these momentous events on Sci-Skeptic. Go figure. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.skeptic https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.skeptic ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@n... wrote: Unc, other than one other response to this thread (the one who said his brother did it pre-TM 20 feet down the road or something like that), you are the very first person who I have ever heard of that has claimed to have witnessed first-hand actual levitation. As such, I feel compelled to ask you for much more detail to your experience, please. No problem. When did this happen? Dozens of times -- probably more like hundreds, actually -- over a 14-year period starting in 1981. Where? Actual city/state and location (i.e. house, ashram, type of room, etc.) Dozens of locations. The first time, in the Los Angeles Convention Center. In the buildings we were using for our weekly meetings. In the desert. Once in a Denny's in the dead of night when no customers or waiters were around. :-) Did you experience it only once? Nope. Many times. As did most of the other students who studied with the guy. I will also emphasise, for the record, the word most. Some people (10-15) never saw anything; others (1000s over the years, sometimes 500 at once) saw this stuff all the time. Therefore, it would appear to be a phenomenon that is not entirely physical, and takes place at least to some extent on subtle physical levels. If you're asking whether it was ever recorded on film, I don't think so, and I don't know whether it could have been. But it was neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and as a field of energy to be part of. The latter was the real benefit of being around someone who is doing this, IMO. Who exactly did the levitating. Rama. Dr. Frederick Lenz. Crazy Fred. As far as I know, he never practiced any techniques to make it happen. As he explained it, he just woke up one day and remembered how to do it. Something from a past life. He never taught how to do it to any of his students, as far as I know. Was it photographed/videotaped and if not, why not? No, and I don't know why not. He didn't believe very much in trying to document any of the things he could do. His theory was that this stuff is hard enough to believe if it's happening right in front of your face in the same room you are in (a statement I can attest to the truth of). So who's going to believe a videotape? Because some people saw this phenomenon and others in the same room did not, I have my doubts that it would have been captured on videotape. What was the circumstances of the manifestation, that is, was it in front of many people, just yourself...was the lighting and the surroundings such that it couldn't be faked, etc. All the settings mentioned before, so setup or prep required. In the one at Denny's a bunch of us were sitting around one of those round tables at 4:00 in the morning and all the waitresses disappeared, probably to grab a quick cigarette in the kitchen, and he smiled and just lifted up off the naugahyde diner seat and hovered there for about 30 seconds, grinning to beat all. :-) I ask this because on my last trip to Las Vegas I visited one of those magic kiosks where they sell magic tricks and I actually saw a magician demonstate a trick that he was selling to the public in which he makes a coin levitate and spin right in front of you (and for the hell of it, I could NOT figure out how he did it but I DO know that it was some sort of magic technique and NOT actual levitation). My roommate during my last year with the TM organization was an airbrush artist who did costumes for Doug Henning. So Doug would come over to the house a lot and would show us some close-up magic. I know he was most famous for his big stage effects, but the man's real genius was with his close-up magic. I was two feet in front of him, able to move around and look at his hands from any angle I chose, and I still couldn't figure out how he did it. I will admit for the sake of intellectual openness that some trick could have been involved in what Rama did, but I honestly don't think there was any. The variety of the settings
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
I will Richard. I believe you. Stay with it Richard, stay with it.all day Richard. Continue to write about it. Can you add a little description as to what that feels like? What do the monkeys look like? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : Now about a hundred monkeys are levitating out my butt. Why won't somebody help me? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : A hundred monkeys just flew out of my butt, for REAL. Has this ever happened to anyone else? Help me, someone, anyone, for God's sake,please, help me! On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:47 AM, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote: Monkeys are flying out of my butt. For REAL! So, I wonder why nobody else ever reported these momentous events on Sci-Skeptic. Go figure. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.skeptic https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.skeptic ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@n... wrote: Unc, other than one other response to this thread (the one who said his brother did it pre-TM 20 feet down the road or something like that), you are the very first person who I have ever heard of that has claimed to have witnessed first-hand actual levitation. As such, I feel compelled to ask you for much more detail to your experience, please. No problem. When did this happen? Dozens of times -- probably more like hundreds, actually -- over a 14-year period starting in 1981. Where? Actual city/state and location (i.e. house, ashram, type of room, etc.) Dozens of locations. The first time, in the Los Angeles Convention Center. In the buildings we were using for our weekly meetings. In the desert. Once in a Denny's in the dead of night when no customers or waiters were around. :-) Did you experience it only once? Nope. Many times. As did most of the other students who studied with the guy. I will also emphasise, for the record, the word most. Some people (10-15) never saw anything; others (1000s over the years, sometimes 500 at once) saw this stuff all the time. Therefore, it would appear to be a phenomenon that is not entirely physical, and takes place at least to some extent on subtle physical levels. If you're asking whether it was ever recorded on film, I don't think so, and I don't know whether it could have been. But it was neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and as a field of energy to be part of. The latter was the real benefit of being around someone who is doing this, IMO. Who exactly did the levitating. Rama. Dr. Frederick Lenz. Crazy Fred. As far as I know, he never practiced any techniques to make it happen. As he explained it, he just woke up one day and remembered how to do it. Something from a past life. He never taught how to do it to any of his students, as far as I know. Was it photographed/videotaped and if not, why not? No, and I don't know why not. He didn't believe very much in trying to document any of the things he could do. His theory was that this stuff is hard enough to believe if it's happening right in front of your face in the same room you are in (a statement I can attest to the truth of). So who's going to believe a videotape? Because some people saw this phenomenon and others in the same room did not, I have my doubts that it would have been captured on videotape. What was the circumstances of the manifestation, that is, was it in front of many people, just yourself...was the lighting and the surroundings such that it couldn't be faked, etc. All the settings mentioned before, so setup or prep required. In the one at Denny's a bunch of us were sitting around one of those round tables at 4:00 in the morning and all the waitresses disappeared, probably to grab a quick cigarette in the kitchen, and he smiled and just lifted up off the naugahyde diner seat and hovered there for about 30 seconds, grinning to beat all. :-) I ask this because on my last trip to Las Vegas I visited one of those magic kiosks where they sell magic tricks and I actually saw a magician demonstate a trick that he was selling to the public in which he makes a coin levitate and spin right in front of you (and for the hell of it, I could NOT figure out how he did it but I DO know that it was some sort of magic technique and NOT actual levitation). My roommate during my last year with the TM organization was an airbrush artist who did costumes for Doug Henning. So Doug would come over to the house a lot and would show us some close-up magic. I know he was most famous for his big stage effects, but the man's real genius was with his close-up magic. I was two feet in front of him, able to move around
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 11:38 AM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: Stay with it Richard, stay with it.. Has anyone else out there ever seen anyone levitate, just once - I mean, when you weren't high on LSD? One time down in Mexico a Yaqui Shaman once slipped some Mescal into my taco and I saw God, his wife, Sophia, his daughter Ashley, and his son Baal, all levitating right in front of me, with the Holy Ghost flying up over my head. The next thing I knew was that monkeys were coming out of my butt. So, this experience that I had makes the TB's experience look like a tiny ant hill compared to a big tall mountain. Go figure. Shemp McGurk: Did you experience it only once? TurquoiseB: Nope. Many times. As did most of the other students who studied with the guy. I will also emphasise, for the record, the word most. Some people (10-15) never saw anything; others (1000s over the years, sometimes 500 at once) saw this stuff all the time. Therefore, it would appear to be a phenomenon that is not entirely physical, and takes place at least to some extent on subtle physical levels. If you're asking whether it was ever recorded on film, I don't think so, and I don't know whether it could have been. But it was neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and as a field of energy to be part of. The latter was the real benefit of being around someone who is doing this, IMO.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
You are fucking certifiable dude. And quite the most hopeless advert for a lifetime spent on the highest spiritual path... The TMO should pay you to shut up. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:38 AM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: Stay with it Richard, stay with it.. Has anyone else out there ever seen anyone levitate, just once - I mean, when you weren't high on LSD? One time down in Mexico a Yaqui Shaman once slipped some Mescal into my taco and I saw God, his wife, Sophia, his daughter Ashley, and his son Baal, all levitating right in front of me, with the Holy Ghost flying up over my head. The next thing I knew was that monkeys were coming out of my butt. So, this experience that I had makes the TB's experience look like a tiny ant hill compared to a big tall mountain. Go figure. Shemp McGurk: Did you experience it only once? TurquoiseB: Nope. Many times. As did most of the other students who studied with the guy. I will also emphasise, for the record, the word most. Some people (10-15) never saw anything; others (1000s over the years, sometimes 500 at once) saw this stuff all the time. Therefore, it would appear to be a phenomenon that is not entirely physical, and takes place at least to some extent on subtle physical levels. If you're asking whether it was ever recorded on film, I don't think so, and I don't know whether it could have been. But it was neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and as a field of energy to be part of. The latter was the real benefit of being around someone who is doing this, IMO.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying? You are fucking certifiable dude. And quite the most hopeless advert for a lifetime spent on the highest spiritual path... The TMO should pay you to shut up. Maybe that's his retirement plan. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Good job Richard. Since monkeys are again flying and levitating out of your behind, you might check the drugs you've been ingesting and look at the side-effects that can happen. Maybe stop hitting the Listerine in the AM? It isn't for drinking, just in case you don't know that. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:38 AM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: Stay with it Richard, stay with it.. Has anyone else out there ever seen anyone levitate, just once - I mean, when you weren't high on LSD? One time down in Mexico a Yaqui Shaman once slipped some Mescal into my taco and I saw God, his wife, Sophia, his daughter Ashley, and his son Baal, all levitating right in front of me, with the Holy Ghost flying up over my head. The next thing I knew was that monkeys were coming out of my butt. So, this experience that I had makes the TB's experience look like a tiny ant hill compared to a big tall mountain. Go figure. Shemp McGurk: Did you experience it only once? TurquoiseB: Nope. Many times. As did most of the other students who studied with the guy. I will also emphasise, for the record, the word most. Some people (10-15) never saw anything; others (1000s over the years, sometimes 500 at once) saw this stuff all the time. Therefore, it would appear to be a phenomenon that is not entirely physical, and takes place at least to some extent on subtle physical levels. If you're asking whether it was ever recorded on film, I don't think so, and I don't know whether it could have been. But it was neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and as a field of energy to be part of. The latter was the real benefit of being around someone who is doing this, IMO.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: You are fucking certifiable dude. So, Barry claims he saw Frederick Lenz levitate hundreds of times, but I'm the certifiable dude. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying? You are fucking certifiable dude. And quite the most hopeless advert for a lifetime spent on the highest spiritual path... The TMO should pay you to shut up. Maybe that's his retirement plan. :-) I might chip in myself
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
That was a long time ago, Richard, in Barry's case. In your case, you are seeing monkeys levitate out of your rear end as of this morning. Catch a clue, Richard, catch a clue. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: You are fucking certifiable dude. So, Barry claims he saw Frederick Lenz levitate hundreds of times, but I'm the certifiable dude. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 12:20 PM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: That was a long time ago, Richard, in Barry's case. In your case, you are seeing monkeys levitate out of your rear end as of this morning. Catch a clue, Richard, catch a clue. It was just a story, Emily. There's no levitation or monkeys flying out anyone's butt. I just wanted to see how many informants on FFL were TB's - apparently that includes you. Go figure. I've witnessed real, hanging-ten-in-mid-air levitation. - TurquoiseB ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: You are fucking certifiable dude. So, Barry claims he saw Frederick Lenz levitate hundreds of times, but I'm the certifiable dude. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 12:11 PM, salyavin808 wrote: You are fucking certifiable dude. And quite the most hopeless advert for a lifetime spent on the highest spiritual path... The TMO should pay you to shut up. Maybe that's his retirement plan. :-) I might chip in myself How much? Please post here any evidence you have that proves levitation or the TMSP. Thanks. The Rama guy I studied with had this particular siddhi down pat. He could just lift off and hang ten in mid-air pretty much whenever he felt like it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Really, Richard? Well, I am glad I could help bring some sanity to you. What is a TB in the sense you are using it with regard to me? True Believer? In what? That I believe that the devotees of Rama's cult perceived what they did? I have no reason to believe otherwise. I have certain perceptions that I remember after taking LSD back in my 20's...oneness with Nature, for one.lots of people had the very same perception. Was it real? - that all depends on how you define real. When drugs are in play messing with our brain, to use an easy example, I think of it as an induced experience. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 12:20 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: That was a long time ago, Richard, in Barry's case. In your case, you are seeing monkeys levitate out of your rear end as of this morning. Catch a clue, Richard, catch a clue. It was just a story, Emily. There's no levitation or monkeys flying out anyone's butt. I just wanted to see how many informants on FFL were TB's - apparently that includes you. Go figure. I've witnessed real, hanging-ten-in-mid-air levitation. - TurquoiseB ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: You are fucking certifiable dude. So, Barry claims he saw Frederick Lenz levitate hundreds of times, but I'm the certifiable dude. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: The TMO should pay you to shut up. So, have you been able to reach the 2nd stage flying? The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed *was* real. We saw it. We felt it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg19778.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 12:02 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote: You are fucking certifiable dude. And quite the most hopeless advert for a lifetime spent on the highest spiritual path... The TMO should pay you to shut up. Maybe that's his retirement plan. :-) It looks fer sure like we've got another TB on our hands - this time, a REAL certifiable, True Believer Dude. The TMO should hire these two guys to give yogic flying demonstrations. Sweet! TurquoiseB: I've witnessed real, hanging-ten-in-mid-air levitation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 12:47 PM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: Really, Richard? Well, I am glad I could help bring some sanity to you. What is a TB in the sense you are using it with regard to me? True Believer? In what? That I believe that the devotees of Rama's cult perceived what they did? I have no reason to believe otherwise. I have certain perceptions that I remember after taking LSD back in my 20's...oneness with Nature, for one.lots of people had the very same perception. Was it real? - that all depends on how you define real. When drugs are in play messing with our brain, to use an easy example, I think of it as an induced experience. *I've witnessed real, hanging-ten-in-mid-air levitation. - TurquoiseB *The really important question, Emily, is why did the TurquoiseB feel the compulsion to tell us that he DID see real levitation, when it is obvious that -- even in his own words -- what the TB experienced was very far from what could remotely be described as real. The story would have been much more believable if the TB had admitted than he was on LSD when he saw Rama rise up and hover. That would be a REAL experience, not some psychic siddhi WOO WOO that Rama caused to go off in their heads. Go figure. TurquoiseB: I will also admit, for the same reasons, that there might have been some kind of psychic siddhi going on, in which people's perceptions were altered to allow them to see a phenomenon that might not have been present on a physical level. But there was never any suggestion of what was about to happen. The most he'd ever say was, Watch. He never said *what* to watch for, and levitation was only one of the siddhis he was good at, so there was no telling what, if anything, was going to happen. And yet most of us saw stuff, and everyone who saw it agreed on what was seen.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Richard, why are you so obsessed with Rama? Are you going to obsess on Rama all day? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: The TMO should pay you to shut up. So, have you been able to reach the 2nd stage flying? The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed *was* real. We saw it. We felt it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg19778.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Are you obsessing on Rama? Or are you obsessing on Fred Lenz and his delusion that he was Rama? Helluva sad story, that one. He was human in the end and died a gnarly psychotic, drug addict's death. Maybe a trip to Whole Foods will help ground you. Have a good day. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : Richard, why are you so obsessed with Rama? Are you going to obsess on Rama all day? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: The TMO should pay you to shut up. So, have you been able to reach the 2nd stage flying? The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed *was* real. We saw it. We felt it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg19778.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Willy Tex just likes to use the fact that Fred Lenz was a spiritual teacher who had some Energy and who allowed the blandishments of the ego to get the better of him. Willy ignores the fact that someone can have some good things about them, even teaching with true spiritual wisdom and still screw up. I, even I admit that some people got some good things from Marshy by being around him and sometimes from his teaching. But Willy just likes it when he feels he scores a point agin me or Barry. I admit some of Willy's thinking and comments are so convoluted they are almost impossible to understand. On Thu, 3/20/14, emilymae...@yahoo.com emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying? To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 20, 2014, 6:40 PM Are you obsessing on Rama? Or are you obsessing on Fred Lenz and his delusion that he was Rama? Helluva sad story, that one. He was human in the end and died a gnarly psychotic, drug addict's death. Maybe a trip to Whole Foods will help ground you. Have a good day. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : Richard, why are you so obsessed with Rama? Are you going to obsess on Rama all day? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: The TMO should pay you to shut up. So, have you been able to reach the 2nd stage flying? The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed *was* real. We saw it. We felt it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying? Willy Tex just likes to use the fact that Fred Lenz was a spiritual teacher who had some Energy and who allowed the blandishments of the ego to get the better of him. Willy ignores the fact that someone can have some good things about them, even teaching with true spiritual wisdom and still screw up. Willytex can't think that deeply. He only brings up the Rama guy because he thinks that doing so will push my buttons the way me talking about Maharishi pushes his.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Richard is the FFL graffiti artist. I'm surprised the doesn't have a graffitiartist@ handle. Go figure. On 03/20/2014 11:09 AM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: Richard, why are you so obsessed with Rama? Are you going to obsess on Rama all day? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 11:59 AM, salyavin808 wrote: The TMO should pay you to shut up. So, have you been able to reach the 2nd stage flying? The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed *was* real. We saw it. We felt it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg19778.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 1:53 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I admit some of Willy's thinking and comments are so convoluted they are almost impossible to understand. So, Rama was able to levitate hundreds of times, but the TMSP doesn't work. It's complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 2:08 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Richard is the FFL graffiti artist. I'm surprised the doesn't have a graffitiartist@ handle. Go figure. So, has anyone achieved levitation or reaching the 2nd stage flying? It seems like a pretty straightforward question. Why are you having so much trouble with this? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 1:53 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: someone can have some good things about them, even teaching with true spiritual wisdom and still screw up. Nobody said they were opposed to Rama, or to Rama levitating - I just want to know how it is possible. Did you ever achieve the 2nd stage off flying in the golden dome?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 2:01 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Willytex can't think that deeply. He only brings up the Rama guy because he thinks that doing so will push my buttons the way me talking about Maharishi pushes his. I didn't bring up the Rama guy - you did, by responding to this thread - I'm simply posting my OPINION. To me, Fred Lenz was Just Another Guy that could do amazing things with people's minds - some would call it WOO WOO, and others might call it MIND CONTROL or being in a TRANCE INDUCTION STATE. But, you're the only guy I know that actually claims to have seen Rama levitate for REAL. So it looks like we've got a REAL TB on our hands, with a brain problem situation. Go figure. The question is, have YOU ever achieved 2nd stage flying? I've witnessed real, hanging-ten-in-mid-air levitation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
According to Benjamin Crème, Lenz was very far from being enlightened having reached a point of evolution of 1.30. About the same level as Jack Lemmon, Alfred Joyce Kilmer and Alan Ginsberg. Since levitation can only be performed from pure consciousness we can conclude that Lenz duped his students in some way into believing they saw something that wasn't happening.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Richard, are you saying you couldn't be susceptible to mind control techniques or a trance induction state? Get a grip, Richard. Your brain is not thinking properly, but thanks for your opinion. REAL can be defined in many ways. Could you define it; without a proper definition, this discussion is meaningless. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 2:01 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Willytex can't think that deeply. He only brings up the Rama guy because he thinks that doing so will push my buttons the way me talking about Maharishi pushes his. I didn't bring up the Rama guy - you did, by responding to this thread - I'm simply posting my OPINION. To me, Fred Lenz was Just Another Guy that could do amazing things with people's minds - some would call it WOO WOO, and others might call it MIND CONTROL or being in a TRANCE INDUCTION STATE. But, you're the only guy I know that actually claims to have seen Rama levitate for REAL. So it looks like we've got a REAL TB on our hands, with a brain problem situation. Go figure. The question is, have YOU ever achieved 2nd stage flying? I've witnessed real, hanging-ten-in-mid-air levitation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
According to Benjamin Creme. And who is his level on the scale according to? Actually, Lemmon was undoubtably a genius and Ginsberg is a bit of a hero. Good company methinks. Any higher on this list and you end up next to the likes of Hitler Not heard of Kilmer, Val's dad? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : According to Benjamin Crème, Lenz was very far from being enlightened having reached a point of evolution of 1.30. About the same level as Jack Lemmon, Alfred Joyce Kilmer and Alan Ginsberg. Since levitation can only be performed from pure consciousness we can conclude that Lenz duped his students in some way into believing they saw something that wasn't happening.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Unless its Benjy who is doing the duping, which is my vote. On Thu, 3/20/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying? To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 20, 2014, 7:28 PM According to Benjamin Crème, Lenz was very far from being enlightened having reached a point of evolution of 1.30. About the same level as Jack Lemmon, Alfred Joyce Kilmer and Alan Ginsberg. Since levitation can only be performed from pure consciousness we can conclude that Lenz duped his students in some way into believing they saw something that wasn't happening.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 2:30 PM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: Richard, are you saying you couldn't be susceptible to mind control techniques or a trance induction state? What I'm saying is that the TurquoiseB is the True Believer, and he apparently was very susceptible to mind control and brainwashing and he may still be in a trance induction state, but apparently he never achieved the 2nd stage of yogic flying himself. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
You didn't answer my question, Richard. We are talking about you here. Willing volunteers are usually susceptible to what they sign on for, until they aren't anymore. My guess is if you had signed on with Fred willingly and in search mode, you would have been susceptible too. The key word here is willingly. You ain't that special; you signed on with someone else. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 2:30 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: Richard, are you saying you couldn't be susceptible to mind control techniques or a trance induction state? What I'm saying is that the TurquoiseB is the True Believer, and he apparently was very susceptible to mind control and brainwashing and he may still be in a trance induction state, but apparently he never achieved the 2nd stage of yogic flying himself. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 4:11 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Unless its Benjy who is doing the duping, which is my vote. Compared to the TurquoiseB doing the duping?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On 3/20/2014 6:50 PM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: You didn't answer my question, Richard. We are talking about you here. We are talking about Barry, who claimed on FFL that he saw Rama in the 2nd stage of levitation, hundreds of times. Rama used a variety of so-called mind-control techniques to seduce his disciples. He had his subjects stare at him for long hours until they would hallucinate and see Lenz begin to glow or change shapes. Lenz told his followers that having these visions meant they were psychic. http://www.skepdic.com/rama.html The Rama guy I studied with had this particular siddhi down pat. He could just lift off and hang ten in mid-air pretty much whenever he felt like it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 2:30 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: Richard, are you saying you couldn't be susceptible to mind control techniques or a trance induction state? What I'm saying is that the TurquoiseB is the True Believer, and he apparently was very susceptible to mind control and brainwashing and he may still be in a trance induction state, but apparently he never achieved the 2nd stage of yogic flying himself. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
No, I was talking to you Richard. I was simply wondering whether or not you thought you might be, or might have been, susceptible to mind control, etc. as a willing participant who believed, at least initially, in the teacher they had signed on with. Rama was a sick man, but at the time and given the context, I can imagine that many would have been, and did, in fact, believe in his message, and also, for whatever the reason, did perceive him as levitating. Real is usually in the eye of the beholder. Ask Share. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 6:50 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: You didn't answer my question, Richard. We are talking about you here. We are talking about Barry, who claimed on FFL that he saw Rama in the 2nd stage of levitation, hundreds of times. Rama used a variety of so-called mind-control techniques to seduce his disciples. He had his subjects stare at him for long hours until they would hallucinate and see Lenz begin to glow or change shapes. Lenz told his followers that having these visions meant they were psychic. http://www.skepdic.com/rama.html http://www.skepdic.com/rama.html The Rama guy I studied with had this particular siddhi down pat. He could just lift off and hang ten in mid-air pretty much whenever he felt like it. - TurquoiseB https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/63670 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 3/20/2014 2:30 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote: Richard, are you saying you couldn't be susceptible to mind control techniques or a trance induction state? What I'm saying is that the TurquoiseB is the True Believer, and he apparently was very susceptible to mind control and brainwashing and he may still be in a trance induction state, but apparently he never achieved the 2nd stage of yogic flying himself. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Monkeys are flying out of my butt. For REAL! So, I wonder why nobody else ever reported these momentous events on Sci-Skeptic. Go figure. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.skeptic https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.skeptic ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@n... wrote: Unc, other than one other response to this thread (the one who said his brother did it pre-TM 20 feet down the road or something like that), you are the very first person who I have ever heard of that has claimed to have witnessed first-hand actual levitation. As such, I feel compelled to ask you for much more detail to your experience, please. No problem. When did this happen? Dozens of times -- probably more like hundreds, actually -- over a 14-year period starting in 1981. Where? Actual city/state and location (i.e. house, ashram, type of room, etc.) Dozens of locations. The first time, in the Los Angeles Convention Center. In the buildings we were using for our weekly meetings. In the desert. Once in a Denny's in the dead of night when no customers or waiters were around. :-) Did you experience it only once? Nope. Many times. As did most of the other students who studied with the guy. I will also emphasise, for the record, the word most. Some people (10-15) never saw anything; others (1000s over the years, sometimes 500 at once) saw this stuff all the time. Therefore, it would appear to be a phenomenon that is not entirely physical, and takes place at least to some extent on subtle physical levels. If you're asking whether it was ever recorded on film, I don't think so, and I don't know whether it could have been. But it was neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and as a field of energy to be part of. The latter was the real benefit of being around someone who is doing this, IMO. Who exactly did the levitating. Rama. Dr. Frederick Lenz. Crazy Fred. As far as I know, he never practiced any techniques to make it happen. As he explained it, he just woke up one day and remembered how to do it. Something from a past life. He never taught how to do it to any of his students, as far as I know. Was it photographed/videotaped and if not, why not? No, and I don't know why not. He didn't believe very much in trying to document any of the things he could do. His theory was that this stuff is hard enough to believe if it's happening right in front of your face in the same room you are in (a statement I can attest to the truth of). So who's going to believe a videotape? Because some people saw this phenomenon and others in the same room did not, I have my doubts that it would have been captured on videotape. What was the circumstances of the manifestation, that is, was it in front of many people, just yourself...was the lighting and the surroundings such that it couldn't be faked, etc. All the settings mentioned before, so setup or prep required. In the one at Denny's a bunch of us were sitting around one of those round tables at 4:00 in the morning and all the waitresses disappeared, probably to grab a quick cigarette in the kitchen, and he smiled and just lifted up off the naugahyde diner seat and hovered there for about 30 seconds, grinning to beat all. :-) I ask this because on my last trip to Las Vegas I visited one of those magic kiosks where they sell magic tricks and I actually saw a magician demonstate a trick that he was selling to the public in which he makes a coin levitate and spin right in front of you (and for the hell of it, I could NOT figure out how he did it but I DO know that it was some sort of magic technique and NOT actual levitation). My roommate during my last year with the TM organization was an airbrush artist who did costumes for Doug Henning. So Doug would come over to the house a lot and would show us some close-up magic. I know he was most famous for his big stage effects, but the man's real genius was with his close-up magic. I was two feet in front of him, able to move around and look at his hands from any angle I chose, and I still couldn't figure out how he did it. I will admit for the sake of intellectual openness that some trick could have been involved in what Rama did, but I honestly don't think there was any. The variety of the settings and the spontaneity with which he'd decide to do this stuff disallows any preparation or equipment. I will also admit, for the same reasons, that there might have been some kind of psychic siddhi going on, in which people's perceptions were altered to allow them to see a phenomenon that might not have been present on a physical level. But there was never any suggestion of what was about to happen. The most he'd ever say was, Watch. He never
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Excellent post. My comments in between marked by . --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me take a stab at trying to straighten this out, as briefly as I can. Intellectually, I know all this stuff, everything Rory has said, everything Barry has said in this post, about the nature of ignorance. I've heard it over and over and *over* again, and not only that, I'm completely convinced it's true. I'm absolutely positive that I were I to become realized, I'd be saying the same things on my own hook. What I hope I *wouldn't* be doing is to couch them in terms that suggest realization is a matter of psychology, of intention, of ideas, of stories, that the willingness to do a little tweaking here and there of how one thinks and reacts can bring realization about. That may turn out to be difficult, because that may be how it all looks to me then; and because we lack a good vocabulary for expressing what it looks like in other terms. But I hope I remember MMY's dictum Knowledge is structured in consciousness--not in psychology, not in the mind, but in consciousness--and its corollary, Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. That's *experiential* knowledge, not intellectual knowledge, not psychological insight. Another way to say it is, One's experiential reality is different in different states of consciousness. This is very true. I have difficulties to remember, what my experiential reality was before an awakening. In the state of consciousness we've been calling ignorance, one *cannot know* experientially that the bars of the cage don't exist; and the intellectual conviction that they don't exist *does not affect* the experiential knowledge that they do. As I said in earlier posts, something *else* has to happen for experiential knowledge, the experiential reality, to change. Attachment in the sense MMY uses the term is not something that can be dissolved by intention (other than the intention to sit down, close one's eyes, and begin TM). Nor can it be dissolved via intellectual examination or psychological probing. I think intellectual self inquiry, psychological probing and recognizing and transforming suppressed emotions are important techniques along with meditation that help you better navigate in life and makes you faster ready for the next shift in awareness, but the shift in itself doesn't happen through these means. snip In these discussions, Rory has been telling you that you are free, and you have been asserting, over and over, that he is mistaken and that you are not. He is speaking from his state of consciousness, in which the experiential reality is that I am free. And I'm speaking from my state of consciousness, in which the experiential reality is that I am not. Both of us can be right; these are not mutually exclusive propositions as I just phrased them. The mistake is for him to suggest *my* experiential reality is that I am free. snip For now, in my opinion, you seem to be terribly attached to the cell being real. You don't even try to rattle the bars or to examine them to see if they're real. Very much au contraire. I'm constantly rattling them. And they make a lot of noise when I do. You already know that they're real. Anyone who says differently is obviously fucking with you. So what you do when some- one tells you that the bars aren't real is to try to make the person who's telling you the truth feel bad about telling you the truth. You try to make the person who has caused you pain feel pain himself. And here, sadly, you veer off into putdowns, and inaccurate ones at that (as per usual). I made it *explicit* to Rory, and I'm pretty sure he understood, that I was NOT suggesting he had any intention of fucking with me, to the contrary, in fact. Nor was I trying to make him feel bad; I told him that as well. What I wanted him to do was to *empathize* with my pain. And indeed he did, to his credit. Moreover, as I also made clear, he was causing me no more than annoyance at the misunderstanding. When I described my pain, I was recalling what I had felt the first time I'd been told, Oh, you're not really overshadowed; you're not in ignorance; you're already enlightened. That was years ago, and I got over it, but it did leave a scar. I just hate to think of other people having to experience the same kind of pain when it's so utterly unnecessary. I *hoped* I might be able to communicate the nature of the problem, but I don't think I was very successful. Bottom line, I'd suggest to realized people that while speaking the truth of their own experiential reality is fine and important, if they can't empathize with the experiential reality of the unrealized, at least they should try to avoid contradicting what the unrealized say about their
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. Buddha walked away from one teacher and one tradition and found enlightenment. Hundreds of other seekers have had the same experience, even though what they walked away *from* was always different. Maybe the act of dropping one's attachment to a tradition and its dogma -- *whatever* that tradition and dogma may be -- is what acts as a catalyst for realization. Doesn't matter if it's TM one walks away from or Buddhism, or Christianity or whatever. Walking away means finally coming to trust oneself and one's intuition more than one trusts outside authorities or lineage or tradition. That trust may be the catalyst IMO. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent post. My comments in between marked by . Thanks, Irmeli. Great comments too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As I said in earlier posts, something *else* has to happen for experiential knowledge, the experiential reality, to change. Attachment in the sense MMY uses the term is not something that can be dissolved by intention (other than the intention to sit down, close one's eyes, and begin TM). Nor can it be dissolved via intellectual examination or psychological probing. I think intellectual self inquiry, psychological probing and recognizing and transforming suppressed emotions are important techniques along with meditation that help you better navigate in life and makes you faster ready for the next shift in awareness, but the shift in itself doesn't happen through these means. I'll buy that. I do think one needs to strike a good balance, though, and not get so self-involved (lower- case s!) that it kills one's ability to be spontaneous. snip It seems to me, based on my observation of what realized people have said about the state of ignorance, that the stages of experiential reality are not backward-compatible, as it were. You can't fully recall the experiential reality of the dream state once you are awake. I often like to metaphorically think of these different stages of experiential reality ( this is a very good expression) as different operating systems in a computer. I think it is also possible that, when a new more advanced operating system gets installed, the new one may be lacking some good properties the old operating system had. It's the throwing away the baby with the bath water syndrome. The more advanced operating system can pick up those properties, once the defect is recognized. The old operating system cannot pick up the more advanced qualities of the new operating system. Terrific metaphor, and very interesting observation about the new OS lacking some good properties of the old one! And I should think it might be harder to recognize personality defects when one is in a state of wholeness with regard to one's consciousness, at least until the novelty wears off. I have realized that if I really want to help another person, I must be able to experientially share her reality. In that position I look at the conflicts of her life and we try to navigate through them the best we can together. This kind of sharing is very difficult to do in a chat group in internet Yes, one's Internet persona can be different in many respects from one's live persona. But by the same token, it may be easier to reveal certain kinds of things about oneself when one is at an electronic distance. , clearly easier in the physical presence of the person. In every day life I feel it is more rewarding to meet each person this way to the extent I can. It doesn't feel a bit good to take a superior position. Yup. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. But maybe what the student has jumped off of has something to do with the jumping-off being able to trigger the realization. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. You'd probably have to do a much larger analysis of seekers who left a trip to see what *percentage* of them then had realizations compared to the percentage who left a *different* trip and then had realizations. If the percentages of realizations after leaving various trips were roughly the same, that would be evidence for your case. If one or more trips had significantly higher percentages, then you'd want to think about giving some credit to those specific trips themselves. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. But maybe what the student has jumped off of has something to do with the jumping-off being able to trigger the realization. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. You'd probably have to do a much larger analysis of seekers who left a trip to see what *percentage* of them then had realizations compared to the percentage who left a *different* trip and then had realizations. If the percentages of realizations after leaving various trips were roughly the same, that would be evidence for your case. If one or more trips had significantly higher percentages, then you'd want to think about giving some credit to those specific trips themselves. If all you believe in is objective evidence, by all means do your study. I was merely stating opinion, based on nothing more than watching trends in spiritual organizations for a lifetime (at least). I'm still convinced that the process of challenging one's assumptions and core beliefs can have some- thing to do with triggering further realizations. And that this process can occur whether one's self- challenges result in walking away from one's current course of study or not. As I've mentioned before on another forum ( and possibly here, because as a Sagg I tend to repeat myself :-), I had a good friend who was a Paulist priest. He told me something about his order that really appealed to me. He said that no one was *ever* considered for a position of responsibility in the order unless they'd gone through their own personal dark night of the soul and almost left the Church. The process of doubting and confront- ing one's doubts (as opposed to stuffing them or ignoring them) was considered absolutely neces- sary for someone to be considered worthy of holding a high office. Those who had *not* gone through their period of doubt and come out the other side with their faith renewed were looked upon as blissninnies, and not to be trusted. So for me this is the same process. It's the *process* that is important -- the active challenging of one's assumptions and beliefs -- not the outcome. That *process* is what I suspect can trigger realization. But then, I could be wrong about this. And that wouldn't bother me one bit. I'm comfortable with my opinion being mere opinion. I don't have to believe it's fact, or try to convince others it's fact. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. But maybe what the student has jumped off of has something to do with the jumping-off being able to trigger the realization. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. You'd probably have to do a much larger analysis of seekers who left a trip to see what *percentage* of them then had realizations compared to the percentage who left a *different* trip and then had realizations. If the percentages of realizations after leaving various trips were roughly the same, that would be evidence for your case. If one or more trips had significantly higher percentages, then you'd want to think about giving some credit to those specific trips themselves. If all you believe in is objective evidence, by all means do your study. Non sequitur. Did I say somewhere that all I believed in was objective evidence? I was merely stating opinion, based on nothing more than watching trends in spiritual organizations for a lifetime (at least). Non sequitur. Watching trends in spiritual organizations and analyzing the stories of hundreds of seekers are both objective approaches in which you evaluated evidence and then derived a conclusion from that evaluation. In other words, you did a study. I'm pointing out that to make it a *solid* conclusion, you have to take the same kind of analysis a bit further. The study you did wasn't thorough enough to support your conclusion. I'm still convinced that the process of challenging one's assumptions and core beliefs can have some- thing to do with triggering further realizations. I never said that wasn't the case. What I said was that if you found leaving some trips more often triggered realization than did leaving other trips, you'd want to think about giving some credit to the trips themselves, in terms of what they provided by way of preparation. The propositions aren't mutually exclusive, you see. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
. What I saidwas that if you found leaving some trips moreoften triggered realization than did leaving othertrips, you'd want to think about giving somecredit to the trips themselves, in terms of whatthey provided by way of preparation.The propositions aren't mutually exclusive, you see.I think that like when someone leaves their parents and learn they can do things for themselves, that would sort of simply explain the phenomenon. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Watching trends in spiritual organizations and analyzing the stories of hundreds of seekers are both objective approaches in which you evaluated evidence and then derived a conclusion from that evaluation. In other words, you did a study. I'm pointing out that to make it a *solid* conclusion, you have to take the same kind of analysis a bit further. I don't have to do jackshit. :-) I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . What I said was that if you found leaving some trips more often triggered realization than did leaving other trips, you'd want to think about giving some credit to the trips themselves, in terms of what they provided by way of preparation. The propositions aren't mutually exclusive, you see. I think that like when someone leaves their parents and learn they can do things for themselves, that would sort of simply explain the phenomenon. Well, sure. But are some children better at learning to do things for themselves than others, and does that have anything to do with the preparation their parents gave them before the children left? When I left home for the first time to go to college, for the first few weeks of the semester many of the women in my dorm were miserably homesick, really unhappy and scared. I wasn't the least bit homesick or scared. (I had a great home life, so it wasn't that I was happy to get away!) Somehow my parents managed to prepare me to leave home and start fending for myself better than some of the other freshmen's parents. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Watching trends in spiritual organizations and analyzing the stories of hundreds of seekers are both objective approaches in which you evaluated evidence and then derived a conclusion from that evaluation. In other words, you did a study. I'm pointing out that to make it a *solid* conclusion, you have to take the same kind of analysis a bit further. I don't have to do jackshit. :-) Yes, you do, if you want to make it a solid conclusion. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Non sequitur. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
I think that like when someone leaves their parents and learn they can do things for themselves, that would sort of simply explain the phenomenon.Well, sure. But are some children better atlearning to do things for themselves than others,and does that have anything to do with thepreparation their parents gave them before thechildren left?When I left home for the first time to go tocollege, for the first few weeks of the semestermany of the women in my dorm were miserablyhomesick, really unhappy and scared. I wasn'tthe least bit homesick or scared. (I had a greathome life, so it wasn't that I was happy to getaway!) Somehow my parents managed to prepare meto leave home and start fending for myself betterthan some of the other freshmen's parents.-And yet, you left, and discovered for yourself that you didn't any longer need them telling you what to do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. snip Walking away means finally coming to trust oneself and one's intuition more than one trusts outside authorities or lineage or tradition. That trust may be the catalyst IMO. Thanks - hadn't thought of it that way before - makes sense. It is a curious phenomena. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And my impulse is to tell them what it felt like, not to make *them* feel bad, but so they understand the effect it had, assuming they will want to avoid hurting someone else in the future. This is what people have been trying to tell YOU for years now, Judy, every time you call someone a liar over a matter of opinion, every time you suggest that they are lowvibe and unevolved because their politics aren't the same as yours, every time you blast some innocent TMer bystander for the terrible sin of siding with one of your enemies on a.m.t., every time you call someone a criminal or a phony or otherwise demonize them to win one of your arguments. This level of feedback hasn't worked for you. But you think it will for Rory? Given YOUR history on the Internet, aren't you in effect saying that YOUR feelings are the only thing that matters? You've certainly never given a shit about anyone else's in ten years. I'm sorry to bring the past into this -- that's usually your schtick -- but taking this approach with Rory is just the height of hypocrisy coming from you. It would be different if you had displayed even an ounce of com- passion or caring about the feelings of others in your Internet career, but you haven't. Shame on you for trying to lay this hypocritical guilt trip on someone who has done nothing but try to tell you the honest truth, and with compassion To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip That's not it. The thought is, That hurts. I am in pain. I don't want to be in pain. That's not a story, that's a visceral response. No story no pain. Bull. The story is that there has to be a story. Attachment to attachment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
authfriend wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? Rory wrote: No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Barry wrote: Never been said better. Thank you. Rory describes the dysfunctional way I absorbed the teaching for many years, but in fairness to Maharishi, I recall many times when he talked about the pathless path, implying we're already there. I also recall a period in the 1990s when he seemed to be trying to dislodge whatever conceptual attachments were preventing our awakening to what is already there, talking about the mistake of the intellect and what have you. In short, for me, it might be fairer to fault my understanding than MMY's attempts to straighten it out. - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: authfriend wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? Rory wrote: No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Barry wrote: Never been said better. Thank you. Rory describes the dysfunctional way I absorbed the teaching for many years, but in fairness to Maharishi, I recall many times when he talked about the pathless path, implying we're already there. I also recall a period in the 1990s when he seemed to be trying to dislodge whatever conceptual attachments were preventing our awakening to what is already there, talking about the mistake of the intellect and what have you. In short, for me, it might be fairer to fault my understanding than MMY's attempts to straighten it out. While I remember such teachings, too (very rarely), I think it should be remembered that Maharishi in these later teachings was attempting to straighten out or dislodge conceptual attachments that he, himself, had created in his students. It was as if he was belatedly using the thorn of truth to remove the thorns of untruth that he'd stuck into us all for so many years. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and- by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. Unc, thanks for editing this conversation so some of us who can't or won't read the whole treatise can get the nuggets lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And my impulse is to tell them what it felt like, not to make *them* feel bad, but so they understand the effect it had, assuming they will want to avoid hurting someone else in the future. This is what people have been trying to tell YOU for years now, Judy, every time you call someone a liar over a matter of opinion, every time you suggest that they are lowvibe and unevolved because their politics aren't the same as yours, every time you blast some innocent TMer bystander for the terrible sin of siding with one of your enemies on a.m.t., every time you call someone a criminal or a phony or otherwise demonize them to win one of your arguments. This level of feedback hasn't worked for you. Right, because it's so blatantly, wildly inaccurate as a characterization of my behavior. Not just inaccurate but deliberately misrepresentational. I won't go into the details unless anyone is interested; suffice it to say the misrepresentations in the above are easily documentable, and in this context hypocritical in the extreme. But you think it will for Rory? *Even if* your description were accurate, which it is not, the context is so different your attempt to draw a parallel is absurd. Given YOUR history on the Internet, aren't you in effect saying that YOUR feelings are the only thing that matters? Given my *actual* history on the Internet, as opposed to the viciously false one you've portrayed here, most certainly not. Not only that, you obviously haven't read the discussion I was having with Rory with any attention. That isn't even what I was saying to him. snip I'm sorry to bring the past into this -- that's usually your schtick -- but taking this approach with Rory is just the height of hypocrisy coming from you. Uh-huh. You're the very last person in a position to be accusing anyone else of hypocrisy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip That's not it. The thought is, That hurts. I am in pain. I don't want to be in pain. That's not a story, that's a visceral response. No story no pain. Bull. The story is that there has to be a story. Attachment to attachment. I'm going to expand upon this, trying to speak as Rory does to the enlightened being that is Judy rather than the person who is going to interpret my three words above as a slam. They're not. They're a direct commentary on what I see as the real issue here. Rory (if I have interpreted his words correctly) seems to be saying that the pain of feeling hurt when someone tells you the truth is not your pain. It's not even pain. It's the death struggles of an ego trying to assert itself and survive. It's nothing more than a shadow that is growing darker as the light shining on it becomes brighter. The pain of feeling bad because someone tells you the truth about realization IS, as far as I can tell, just a story. And the story is fiction. You seem to be trying to make a case for the story being real, just because you feel it. In these discussions, Rory has been telling you that you are free, and you have been asserting, over and over, that he is mistaken and that you are not. Your *stories* are what are imprisoning you, Judy. You are like a person pacing back and forth in a tiny jail cell, the bars of which keep you from walking into the world of freedom and liberation that you glimpse through the bars and that you read about in the works of those who have broken out of prison before you. What I think Rory is trying to say is that the bars of your jail cell don't exist. They are just a hologram, an image of a jail cell that has no real existence. The bars have no substance. The only thing that keeps you in place within the cell and keeps you from walking into the world of liberation is your *idea* that the cell is real, that the bars are real. For now, in my opinion, you seem to be terribly attached to the cell being real. You don't even try to rattle the bars or to examine them to see if they're real. You already know that they're real. Anyone who says differently is obviously fucking with you. So what you do when some- one tells you that the bars aren't real is to try to make the person who's telling you the truth feel bad about telling you the truth. You try to make the person who has caused you pain feel pain himself. You talk about pain...well, I'll tell you...this whole process is more than a little painful to watch. The attachment I see here is your attachment to things as they have been for your whole life. You've learned to cope with things the way they've been for your whole life. In your own words, you've developed a thick skin. You've learned to ignore any information that seems contrary to the way things have been for your whole life. You say, The bars are real; the cell is real; I really *am* a prisoner here, and I resent you who have tasted free- dom telling me that the reality I see around me *isn't* real. The attachment, in other words, is to attachment itself, to the status quo that you have developed a thick skin about, to nothing ever really changing. The cell isn't real. The bars don't really exist. One day you're going to get tired of trying to intellectually under- stand enlightenment and just go for enlightenment. One day you're going to forget your self and its attachments and just start walking. And when you do, you'll find yourself outside the cell. It'll surprise the shit out of you. You'll probably walk back and look at it, just to see if it was real all this time. You'll reach out and touch the bars and your hand will go right through them, as if they weren't there. They weren't there. All that was ever there was your *story* about the bars, your sad, sad tale of being stuck in jail, unjustly. You'll realize that there was never anything you could DO to escape from jail, because you were never in it in the first place. There IS no doing when it comes to escaping from the imaginary prison of self. I hope for your sake that this happens soon. I know that it'll happen, in spite of your self's efforts to keep it from happening. That's the magic of self realization -- even the self can't keep itself from realization. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Rory describes the dysfunctional way I absorbed the teaching for many years, but in fairness to Maharishi, I recall many times when he talked about the pathless path, implying we're already there. Yes indeed. I posted a quote from Science of Being to this effect a couple days ago. I also recall a period in the 1990s when he seemed to be trying to dislodge whatever conceptual attachments were preventing our awakening to what is already there, talking about the mistake of the intellect and what have you. In short, for me, it might be fairer to fault my understanding than MMY's attempts to straighten it out. My experience--after some years of living fairly happily with MMY's concepts without examining them too closely--has been that if I take one of them right down to the nitty-gritty, I end up with a paradox or an infinite regress. At first this bothered me, then I began to find it liberating. The mistake of the intellect is key. Intellectual teaching can *only* be delivered and received on the level of the mistake, by definition. It follows that any teaching about the ultimate Unity of reality that does *not* break down into paradox or infinite regress, when you take it as far as it can go, must be inauthentic. MMY talks about the nature of Reality being Self- referential. But infinite regress or paradox is what Self-reference *looks* like to the mistaken intellect. If you take what is circular and try to lay it out in a linear form so the intellect can comprehend it, you have to break the circle at some point, leaving two loose ends that can't be brought together (paradox). You either have to live with the paradox, or get rid of the loose ends by extending the line indefinitely at both of them (infinite regress). Once this sinks in, the ground is pulled right out from under your feet; the intellect has nowhere to stand. Concepts are drained of their solidity and become slippery, mushy, and insubstantial. It can be scary, but it can also be exhilarating. The paradoxes and infinite regresses, and the *reason* for them, are all there in MMY's teaching, but you do have to do some probing to identify them and see where they lead, because he doesn't tend to rub your nose in them, at least on the level of the rank-and-file. (Experience of transcending is an essential component of the process, or was for me.) I don't know whether the conceptual structure of his teaching holds people back, or whether ripping the concepts away before one is ready to see their ultimate uselessness on one's own terms would be counterproductive. Maybe it depends on the individual, and MMY walks a narrow line in an attempt to minimize the potential harm and maximize the potential benefits of teaching conceptually (especially since so many of his students are Westerners steeped in conceptual thinking). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip That's not it. The thought is, That hurts. I am in pain. I don't want to be in pain. That's not a story, that's a visceral response. No story no pain. Bull. The story is that there has to be a story. You are correct if by that you mean that the belief that there has to be a story is itself a story, nothing more. An arbitrary concept which has taken on the false appearance of necessity. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
My experience--after some years of living fairlyhappily with MMY's concepts without examining themtoo closely--has been that if I take one of themright down to the nitty-gritty, I end up with aparadox or an infinite regress. At first thisbothered me, then I began to find it liberating.The "mistake of the intellect" is key. Intellectualteaching can *only* be delivered and received on thelevel of the "mistake," by definition. It followsthat any teaching about the ultimate Unity of realitythat does *not* break down into paradox or infiniteregress, when you take it as far as it can go, mustbe inauthentic.MMY talks about the nature of Reality being Self-referential. But infinite regress or paradox iswhat Self-reference *looks* like to the "mistaken"intellect.If you take what is circular and try to lay itout in a linear form so the intellect cancomprehend it, you have to break the circle atsome point, leaving two loose ends that can't bebrought together (paradox). You either have tolive with the paradox, or get rid of the looseends by extending the line indefinitely at bothof them (infinite regress).Once this sinks in, the ground is pulled right outfrom under your feet; the intellect has nowhere tostand. Concepts are drained of their solidity andbecome slippery, mushy, and insubstantial. It canbe scary, but it can also be exhilarating.The paradoxes and infinite regresses, and the*reason* for them, are all there in MMY's teaching,but you do have to do some probing to identify themand see where they lead, because he doesn't tend torub your nose in them, at least on the level of therank-and-file. (Experience of transcending is anessential component of the process, or was for me.)I don't know whether the conceptual structure ofhis teaching holds people back, or whether rippingthe concepts away before one is ready to see theirultimate uselessness on one's own terms would becounterproductive. Maybe it depends on theindividual, and MMY walks a narrow line in anattempt to minimize the potential harm andmaximize the potential benefits of teachingconceptually (especially since so many of hisstudents are Westerners steeped in conceptualthinking).-I really liked this. Now if you see the thoughts as they arise you will know the base of thought as consciousness, which is unity, always, already, when the mind is free of discursive thought, and then if you follow a thought you will see that for it to manifest it must come under duality. One always has a choice to either remain at the source in unity or follow something through within duality. It's the difference between causal and quantum experience. Either way however, the quantum can be found in the causal, though the opposite is not necessarily true. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip That's not it. The thought is, That hurts. I am in pain. I don't want to be in pain. That's not a story, that's a visceral response. No story no pain. Bull. The story is that there has to be a story. Attachment to attachment. As opposed to obsession with non-attachment? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and- by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. It may be a fairy tale, but there are plenty of people who have bought into this limiting story who still report 24/7 witnessing for years at a time. There have been studies published in scientific journals on them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: authfriend wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? Rory wrote: No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by- and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Barry wrote: Never been said better. Thank you. Rory describes the dysfunctional way I absorbed the teaching for many years, but in fairness to Maharishi, I recall many times when he talked about the pathless path, implying we're already there. I also recall a period in the 1990s when he seemed to be trying to dislodge whatever conceptual attachments were preventing our awakening to what is already there, talking about the mistake of the intellect and what have you. In short, for me, it might be fairer to fault my understanding than MMY's attempts to straighten it out. While I remember such teachings, too (very rarely), Just how many such lectures should MMY conduct? They're all videotaped, are they not? I think it should be remembered that Maharishi in these later teachings was attempting to straighten out or dislodge conceptual attachments that he, himself, had created in his students. It was as if he was belatedly using the thorn of truth to remove the thorns of untruth that he'd stuck into us all for so many years. Words have a way of being misinterpreted, now don't they? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip No story no pain. Bull. The story is that there has to be a story. Attachment to attachment. I'm going to expand upon this, trying to speak as Rory does to the enlightened being that is Judy rather than the person who is going to interpret my three words above as a slam. They're not. They're a direct commentary on what I see as the real issue here. Rory (if I have interpreted his words correctly) seems to be saying that the pain of feeling hurt when someone tells you the truth is not your pain. It's not even pain. It's the death struggles of an ego trying to assert itself and survive. It's nothing more than a shadow that is growing darker as the light shining on it becomes brighter. Let me take a stab at trying to straighten this out, as briefly as I can. Intellectually, I know all this stuff, everything Rory has said, everything Barry has said in this post, about the nature of ignorance. I've heard it over and over and *over* again, and not only that, I'm completely convinced it's true. I'm absolutely positive that I were I to become realized, I'd be saying the same things on my own hook. What I hope I *wouldn't* be doing is to couch them in terms that suggest realization is a matter of psychology, of intention, of ideas, of stories, that the willingness to do a little tweaking here and there of how one thinks and reacts can bring realization about. That may turn out to be difficult, because that may be how it all looks to me then; and because we lack a good vocabulary for expressing what it looks like in other terms. But I hope I remember MMY's dictum Knowledge is structured in consciousness--not in psychology, not in the mind, but in consciousness--and its corollary, Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. That's *experiential* knowledge, not intellectual knowledge, not psychological insight. Another way to say it is, One's experiential reality is different in different states of consciousness. In the state of consciousness we've been calling ignorance, one *cannot know* experientially that the bars of the cage don't exist; and the intellectual conviction that they don't exist *does not affect* the experiential knowledge that they do. As I said in earlier posts, something *else* has to happen for experiential knowledge, the experiential reality, to change. Attachment in the sense MMY uses the term is not something that can be dissolved by intention (other than the intention to sit down, close one's eyes, and begin TM). Nor can it be dissolved via intellectual examination or psychological probing. snip In these discussions, Rory has been telling you that you are free, and you have been asserting, over and over, that he is mistaken and that you are not. He is speaking from his state of consciousness, in which the experiential reality is that I am free. And I'm speaking from my state of consciousness, in which the experiential reality is that I am not. Both of us can be right; these are not mutually exclusive propositions as I just phrased them. The mistake is for him to suggest *my* experiential reality is that I am free. snip For now, in my opinion, you seem to be terribly attached to the cell being real. You don't even try to rattle the bars or to examine them to see if they're real. Very much au contraire. I'm constantly rattling them. And they make a lot of noise when I do. You already know that they're real. Anyone who says differently is obviously fucking with you. So what you do when some- one tells you that the bars aren't real is to try to make the person who's telling you the truth feel bad about telling you the truth. You try to make the person who has caused you pain feel pain himself. And here, sadly, you veer off into putdowns, and inaccurate ones at that (as per usual). I made it *explicit* to Rory, and I'm pretty sure he understood, that I was NOT suggesting he had any intention of fucking with me, to the contrary, in fact. Nor was I trying to make him feel bad; I told him that as well. What I wanted him to do was to *empathize* with my pain. And indeed he did, to his credit. Moreover, as I also made clear, he was causing me no more than annoyance at the misunderstanding. When I described my pain, I was recalling what I had felt the first time I'd been told, Oh, you're not really overshadowed; you're not in ignorance; you're already enlightened. That was years ago, and I got over it, but it did leave a scar. I just hate to think of other people having to experience the same kind of pain when it's so utterly unnecessary. I *hoped* I might be able to communicate the nature of
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Rory describes the dysfunctional way I absorbed the teaching for many years, but in fairness to Maharishi, I recall many times when he talked about the pathless path, implying we're already there. Yes indeed. I posted a quote from Science of Being to this effect a couple days ago. I also recall a period in the 1990s when he seemed to be trying to dislodge whatever conceptual attachments were preventing our awakening to what is already there, talking about the mistake of the intellect and what have you. In short, for me, it might be fairer to fault my understanding than MMY's attempts to straighten it out. My experience--after some years of living fairly happily with MMY's concepts without examining them too closely--has been that if I take one of them right down to the nitty-gritty, I end up with a paradox or an infinite regress. At first this bothered me, then I began to find it liberating. The mistake of the intellect is key. Intellectual teaching can *only* be delivered and received on the level of the mistake, by definition. It follows that any teaching about the ultimate Unity of reality that does *not* break down into paradox or infinite regress, when you take it as far as it can go, must be inauthentic. A few years back I re-listened to most of the 4 volumes of audio tapes that Maharishi made for centers with the express purpose of looking for references to the pathless path, pure non dualism, instead of the dualism that is normaly emphasised. It's all there, but under the usual surface. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and- by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! JohnY Or the long dark night of the soul convinced them to leave, and rightly or wrongly, they've never looked back. Actually, from the way some behave here, I suspect the long dark night is ongoing for many/most/all but they're in denial. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting! I am on the first few chapters of the new Harry Potter book myself :-) How very very interesting, my wife is reading it, and I will be reading it after. Wow. Finished it. Will reveal nothing. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
but I am not particularly interested in that part of the conscious mind, anyhow. Yes, but WE are! Attachment to attachment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I think I understand what you are saying here -- you insist that ignorance is real, not merely a belief Not just real, but an *important* reality. How *dare* you suggest it's neither! I have a friend down here in the south of France who has a bit of a Zorro fetish. He knows all the Zorro books and movies and TV shows backwards and forwards and even dresses up like Zorro for parties and special occasions. He has fun with this fantasy of his. We have fun with him having fun with this fantasy of his. But what makes it work is that Pete doesn't expect any of us to believe he's really Zorro. He doesn't expect us to take his fantasy seriously, because he doesn't take his fantasy seriously. Seems to me this discussion is about someone who insists that people take her fantasy of unenlightenment seriously. If we don't, we're demeaning her and some- how putting her down. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--The only difference between being Realized and being Un- realized, doesn't have anything to do with the ego, the mind, the feelings, the body, survival instincts, the passing on of DNA, or anything relative. It has to do with recognizing the true Self. The true Self is nothing other than silence, inner silence. When you can experience pure silence in meditation, pure stillness, and be awake in the silence, then you have realized the Self. You realize that this Self is beyond anything relative, anything physical, anything ego oriented, anything judgemental, anything at all: it's just silence, unbounded pure silence(something in rather diminishing supply, these days). Ignorance always has to be defended; as it is never true and always false; it always compares and judges, that is it's job, it is the ego, the false self, the small self, the poor me as Eckhart Tolle, calls it; The witness is always there, it is just sleeping now; it will awake soon... - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I think I understand what you are saying here -- you insist that ignorance is real, not merely a belief Not just real, but an *important* reality. How *dare* you suggest it's neither! I have a friend down here in the south of France who has a bit of a Zorro fetish. He knows all the Zorro books and movies and TV shows backwards and forwards and even dresses up like Zorro for parties and special occasions. He has fun with this fantasy of his. We have fun with him having fun with this fantasy of his. But what makes it work is that Pete doesn't expect any of us to believe he's really Zorro. He doesn't expect us to take his fantasy seriously, because he doesn't take his fantasy seriously. Seems to me this discussion is about someone who insists that people take her fantasy of unenlightenment seriously. If we don't, we're demeaning her and some- how putting her down. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Finished it. Will reveal nothing. :-)If you did I really would never forgive you. ;0 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --The only difference between being Realized and being Un- realized, doesn't have anything to do with the ego, the mind, the feelings, the body, survival instincts, the passing on of DNA, or anything relative. Agreed. The supposed physiological counterparts of enlightenment are IMO just a myth made up by people about a mythical future state they call enlightenment so that they don't have to live in the real present state of enlightenment. It has to do with recognizing the true Self. The true Self is nothing other than silence, inner silence. When you can experience pure silence in meditation, pure stillness, and be awake in the silence, then you have realized the Self. You realize that this Self is beyond anything relative, anything physical, anything ego oriented, anything judgemental, anything at all: it's just silence, unbounded pure silence(something in rather diminishing supply, these days). Yet everpresent. Go figure. Ignorance always has to be defended; as it is never true and always false; it always compares and judges, that is it's job, it is the ego, the false self, the small self, the poor me as Eckhart Tolle, calls it; That's what I've been referring to, exactly. It's like the self wants attention, validation, some kind of feedback to per- petuate its belief that it exists. Self pity and indignation at not being taken seriously are two excellent methods of perpetuating the self. Laughing at oneself is one of the best methods for extinguishing the self, which is probably why so few people are able to do it. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So atheists can't be in GC or UC? Please define atheist. Technically, someone who doesn't believe in a deity... Why would someone who didn't believe in God want to merge with Him? I don't get it. Awareness of and identification with our infinite nature does not require that the infinite carry a deity label. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So atheists can't be in GC or UC? Please define atheist. Technically, someone who doesn't believe in a deity... Why would someone who didn't believe in God want to merge with Him? I don't get it. Awareness of and identification with our infinite nature does not require that the infinite carry a deity label. Or that that infinite be considered sentient. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So atheists can't be in GC or UC? Please define atheist. Technically, someone who doesn't believe in a deity... Why would someone who didn't believe in God want to merge with Him? I don't get it. Awareness of and identification with our infinite nature does not require that the infinite carry a deity label. Or that that infinite be considered sentient. Yeah, that too. Having grown up in an atheist/agnostic household, that's my cultural conditioning, and I'm more comfortable relating to that is-ness in atheistic terms. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but I am not particularly interested in that part of the conscious mind, anyhow. Yes, but WE are! Attachment to attachment. No, attachment to attachment to attachment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I think I understand what you are saying here -- you insist that ignorance is real, not merely a belief Not just real, but an *important* reality. How *dare* you suggest it's neither! Exactly right. I have a friend down here in the south of France who has a bit of a Zorro fetish. He knows all the Zorro books and movies and TV shows backwards and forwards and even dresses up like Zorro for parties and special occasions. He has fun with this fantasy of his. We have fun with him having fun with this fantasy of his. That's because it's a fantasy. But what makes it work is that Pete doesn't expect any of us to believe he's really Zorro. He doesn't expect us to take his fantasy seriously, because he doesn't take his fantasy seriously. That's because it's a fantasy. Seems to me this discussion is about someone who insists that people take her fantasy of unenlightenment seriously. If we don't, we're demeaning her and some- how putting her down. Barry, you're really pretty much hors de combat in this discussion. Not even your limp spitballs from the sidelines are poorly aimed. (In any other context, Barry would be *insisting* on the different realities in different states of consciousness. But, hey, consistency is just the hobgoblin of small minds when there's an opportunity to put somebody down.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I think I understand what you are saying here -- you insist that ignorance is real, not merely a belief Not just real, but an *important* reality. How *dare* you suggest it's neither! Exactly right. I have a friend down here in the south of France who has a bit of a Zorro fetish. He knows all the Zorro books and movies and TV shows backwards and forwards and even dresses up like Zorro for parties and special occasions. He has fun with this fantasy of his. We have fun with him having fun with this fantasy of his. That's because it's a fantasy. But what makes it work is that Pete doesn't expect any of us to believe he's really Zorro. He doesn't expect us to take his fantasy seriously, because he doesn't take his fantasy seriously. That's because it's a fantasy. Seems to me this discussion is about someone who insists that people take her fantasy of unenlightenment seriously. If we don't, we're demeaning her and some- how putting her down. Barry, you're really pretty much hors de combat in this discussion. Not even your limp spitballs from the sidelines are poorly aimed. (In any other context, Barry would be *insisting* on the different realities in different states of consciousness. But, hey, consistency is just the hobgoblin of small minds when there's an opportunity to put somebody down.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Barry, you're really pretty much hors de combat in this discussion. Not even your limp spitballs from the sidelines are poorly aimed. Whoops, that should be are well aimed. Changed sentence structure in the middle and didn't edit to compensate. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
I have a friend down here in the south of France who has a bit of a Zorro fetish. He knows all the Zorro books and movies and TV shows backwards and forwards and even dresses up like Zorro for parties and special occasions. He has fun with this fantasy of his. We have fun with him having fun with this fantasy of his. That's because it's a fantasy. So is non-enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Awareness of and identification with our infinite nature does not require that the infinite carry a deity label. Or that that infinite be considered sentient. Yeah, that too. Having grown up in an atheist/agnostic household, that's my cultural conditioning, and I'm more comfortable relating to that is-ness in atheistic terms. Conceptually, I am too, but it doesn't bother me to use deity labels in discussion, because it's all metaphorical anyway; the words can't encompass, let alone limit, the reality. Nor can the concepts, for that matter. Sentience is just another concept with a word attached to it; different people, moreover, have different concepts to which they attach the sentience label. For some it implies *a being*, for others it's the nature of Being, the abstract quality of Intelligence rather than *a being* who is intelligent. But beyond that, if Brahman is One without a second, you can't say Brahman is or is not sentient (or is or is not anything else either), because then you'd have a second, Brahman *plus* whatever Brahman is not. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a friend down here in the south of France who has a bit of a Zorro fetish. He knows all the Zorro books and movies and TV shows backwards and forwards and even dresses up like Zorro for parties and special occasions. He has fun with this fantasy of his. We have fun with him having fun with this fantasy of his. That's because it's a fantasy. So is non-enlightenment. Not for you, toots. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
No, attachment to attachment to attachment.The more attachments the more hard to reach spots one can cover at once. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
I think awards need to be given out for all the enlightened people. But first I have to start with the homeless. That is, the homeless who don't have two shopping carts and the makings of a small city in their contents. The award for detactment goes to those homeless who carry one backpack or less of items for survival. Next, I give the enlightened award in two categories, most specious system, which goes to Lupidus, and least presaged, which goes to this baby I met who watched my energy fields. I give the most awake award to my grandmother who, RIP, only slept two hours a night. The most helpful award goes to Ontul Rinpoche who catching me looking at him once in a weird way explained that he had put off seeking his own enlightenment to help others. Which was cool cause I was looking at him thinking, he doesn't give off much energy, and then he said to the audience, I have not much realization. I would like to go on a retreat before I die. I have ever since the Chinese occupation, felt the need to look out for other people, and so I haven't had the time I wanted. I give the most insightful award to Rory, because I certainly couldn't figure out the geometry of God's face. I give the biggest enlightened buffoon award to JohnHaeglen. Most in-unity-with-his-own-ego award to Maharishi. I'll take most enlightened asshole award. I do know I'm an asshole. How can one be a chef, yelling at people all the time, not know he's an asshole? I'll give Uncle Tantra most enlightened and smug about it award. But best in show goes to Vajranatha with the biggest know it all award in the whole world. Nobody out does you, Buddy. You truely rank with Crowley and John Dee. - Original Message - From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: I have a friend down here in the south of France who has a bit of a Zorro fetish. He knows all the Zorro books and movies and TV shows backwards and forwards and even dresses up like Zorro for parties and special occasions. He has fun with this fantasy of his. We have fun with him having fun with this fantasy of his.That's because it's a fantasy. So is non-enlightenment.Not for you, toots. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think awards need to be given out for all the enlightened people. Since everyone is always already enlightened, I think you missed a few folks. But since it might get expensive to give an award to everyone who feels that they are not enlightened, how 'bout making it a contest? The Poor Me Award goes to the person who can give the best intellectual explanation of enlightenment and then follow it up with the longest and most annoying whine about how this explanation doesn't seem to have helped them realize enlightenment. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think awards need to be given out for all the enlightened people. Since everyone is always already enlightened, I think you missed a few folks. But since it might get expensive to give an award to everyone who feels that they are not enlightened, how 'bout making it a contest? The Poor Me Award goes to the person who can give the best intellectual explanation of enlightenment and then follow it up with the longest and most annoying whine about how this explanation doesn't seem to have helped them realize enlightenment. :-) And then the Wonderfully Clever Me award, to the person with the greatest investment in convincing everybody else that he is enlightened, by devising the most creative (if far-fetched and illogical) put-downs of those who, unlike himself, aren't afraid to admit they aren't enlightened. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think awards need to be given out for all the enlightened people. Since everyone is always already enlightened, I think you missed a few folks. But since it might get expensive to give an award to everyone who feels that they are not enlightened, how 'bout making it a contest? The Poor Me Award goes to the person who can give the best intellectual explanation of enlightenment and then follow it up with the longest and most annoying whine about how this explanation doesn't seem to have helped them realize enlightenment. :-) And then the Wonderfully Clever Me award, to the person with the greatest investment in convincing everybody else that he is enlightened, by devising the most creative (if far-fetched and illogical) put-downs of those who, unlike himself, aren't afraid to admit they aren't enlightened. Just to clarify things for Judy, whose anger at her own lack of experience of enlightenment seems to be getting the better of her in a forum of people who have been more fortunate, I've always been clear that I'm not enlightened. I was equally clear about this on a.m.t., and she knows it. I've had some enlightenment experiences, and they were neat. But so were, and are, all the experiences in which enlightenment is not present. I don't make a distinction between them or long for one over another. I suspect that a lot of people here feel the same way. They, the ones who can live in the present and actually enjoy it for what it is -- enlightened or not -- make this forum worth reading. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think awards need to be given out for all the enlightened people. Since everyone is always already enlightened, I think you missed a few folks. But since it might get expensive to give an award to everyone who feels that they are not enlightened, how 'bout making it a contest? The Poor Me Award goes to the person who can give the best intellectual explanation of enlightenment and then follow it up with the longest and most annoying whine about how this explanation doesn't seem to have helped them realize enlightenment. :-) And then the Wonderfully Clever Me award, to the person with the greatest investment in convincing everybody else that he is enlightened, by devising the most creative (if far-fetched and illogical) put-downs of those who, unlike himself, aren't afraid to admit they aren't enlightened. Just to clarify things for Judy, whose anger at her own lack of experience of enlightenment seems to be getting the better of her in a forum of people who have been more fortunate, That's not even creative, let alone accurate or logical. You're falling down on the job, Barry. I've always been clear that I'm not enlightened. I was equally clear about this on a.m.t., and she knows it. You seem to have fooled Llundrub. Maybe you haven't been quite so clear on FFL as you claim. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
I've had some enlightenment experiences, and theywere neat. But so were, and are, all the experiencesin which enlightenment is not present. I don't make adistinction between them or long for one over another.I suspect that a lot of people here feel the same way.They, the ones who can live in the present and actuallyenjoy it for what it is -- enlightened or not -- make this forum worth reading. -Oh, here, here! I am awakened and realized but I'm far from enlightened. Here's to the enlightened. God bless the thousand or so of the Fortunate Aeon! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It appears to me to be more like waking up doesn't mean you can recall the dream. You'd better watch out, Judy, I am starting to disbelieve you are in ignorance, again :-) No, see, that conclusion is purely a product of the distinction-making intellect. It's based on observation of the kinds of things realized people tend to say. It's as if you all need to be reeducated as to what it was like for you before you awakened, at least if you expect to be able to converse with those in ignorance. Yes, after participating on FFL for the past few years I have reluctantly come to believe that no really meaningful discussion can be held on that particular subject -- hence the wise not speaking and so on. *Except* with those who are *on the brink* as it were :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On my arrival in Bombay I was overtaken with emotions of "you are home." I tried putting it in check as some kind of mood making but it would not go away. I felt far more at home in India with the Indian people than I ever have in the US. Perhaps you would feel the same visiting Tibet?;-)- Bhairitu---I knew a rudraksha dealer who got quite used to people bowing to him in India just because he knew a few mantras to the degree that he got himself a fancy title and started believing it. Unfortunately, that shit doesn't go over in the states. Here it's called megalomania. It's much easier to feel superior in India where they peel toilet paper from the rolls like flowers and brush dirt off their kitchen floors to clean them. Perhaps the feeling 'at home' was not so much a past-life experience as the sense of self confidence you would feel going back to fourth grade? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
On Jul 26, 2005, at 11:43 AM, Bhairitu wrote: I have to be honest, I have a hard time with these dichotomous labels although of course it's helpful for talking about things--and sure there are Buddhists who are gungho with that label and Hindu tantrics who are the same way. I'm a Nath and Rime (non-sectarian) practitioner and don't see a need to side with a camp or a sect. The Nath are said to 'practice Hinduism by day and Buddhism by night'. The core that just awakens and is not a religion is what appeals to me personally. Both are marvelous. So to answer your question, yeah both and I love them both. My Nath guru was the last holder of a sect of Uttara Kaulas...but he was also recognized as a lama by the Kagyupas, loved taoism and so on. It's a non-sectarian trip, a maxim is don't get caught in limits, don't belong to a school. But I find it important in understanding these schools of thought to delineate. To me to not try to discern is some kind of new age philosophy. I couldn't agree more. At the same time there are blatant similarities which cannot be ignored. For example the Buddhist kalachakra tantra contains an entire Hindu agama inside it, the Shiva-swarodaya. Cave practices done by Tibetan yogis in isolation are also similar those used by Shaivite yogins--the important difference being their View, their POV and cosmology. I respect and understand the reasons for not mixing but I also will always take the opportunity to break bread with other practitioners whenever I can. It's just too compelling to ignore. Don't even get me started on New Age emetics...;-) I don't seem that much semblance between what I've seen in Buddhist tantra and what I've learned in Indian tantra. What we *do* see is the similarity in more abstract terms of shamans, tantrics, witch doctors, voodoo in the manipulation of the realm of physics through supernatural means. IOW, technology that current material based science has yet to comprehend. Well and methods are similar or often the same. It's also important that we're comparing apples to apples--Hindu anuttara tantra to Buddhist anuttara tantra. Most Hindu tantras that I see people practicing are outer tantras, so it is important to know what type of tantra we're talking about. There are entire tantras which we can see in Shaivism--particularly Kapalika ones--which made their way into Tantric Buddhism. And vice versa. There were many practices which made their way from Bon and Dzogchen to Kashmir Hindu yogis. Alain Danielou has done a great job at showing the 'what and how' of Shaivism that made it's way into Buddhism; conversely Bon and Nyingma practitioners have told how their trads. were shared in the opposite flow. Really it is quite amazing as the kingdom of Zhang Zhung--the trad. region of Tibetan culture centered around Mt. Kailash--is home to many teachings other than Buddhism. Kailash is the sacred abode to Shiva and Parvati, the Taoists, the Bonpos and others. It's an exciting web of possibilities. He is a married lama and translator--IIRC he has a good amount of exposure to Hindu tantra, but practices Buddha-dharma and Dzogchen. The translation in question is a Buddhist version of the lives of the 84 Mahasiddhas and so for that reason the intro. covers that context primarily. There is a belief that many of the Indiaphiles are actually reincarnates of people who in the twentieth century died in the upheavals in India and Tibet are that is why some are attracted to Hindu thought and some to Buddhist. - Bhairitu Yeah I know some who have memories of the Tibetan and Islamic diaspora in Tibet and in India. What can I say...god recycles ;-). On my arrival in Bombay I was overtaken with emotions of you are home. I tried putting it in check as some kind of mood making but it would not go away. I felt far more at home in India with the Indian people than I ever have in the US. Perhaps you would feel the same visiting Tibet? Maybe. I've always been very happy wherever I was. Except maybe Florida in the summertime... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Yes, I think I understand what you are saying here -- you insist that ignorance is real, not merely a belief -- but the distinction is still somewhat moot to me. I am not speaking of a casual surface- mind belief here, but rather the core-belief in self-other separation, something believed with the entire (conscious) bodymind. I think using the term belief muddles rather than clarifies. I think perhaps *anything* I say is going to muddle rather than clarify, so perhaps I should just wise up and shut up :-) snip The best it can do is deny Perfection Now It doesn't deny it, Rory. The mind--the intellect-- is designed to be *ignorant* of Perfection Now. Yes, I found that ignorance to be an active (albeit previously- unconscious) denial or *ignoring* of Wholeness. That's what you find it *now*. That is not what you found it *then*. That was what I found -- in myself -- immediately upon awakening, yes. It cannot be any other way or it would be useless for physical survival. Interesting! Is that true? My understanding is the only thing it was really concerned with was its own survival *as a separate entity,* with the assumption of separation allowing it (in my case) to continually judge itself as better than/less than the other, etc. Yes, Rory, evolution operates on the level of biology. Biologically, we're separate individuals, and our physical survival as individuals--and as a species, at least in a state of nature--requires a mental apparatus that is designed for making distinctions: this is a stick, that is a poisonous snake. Evolutionarily speaking, the mind was not designed to assist us in realizing Unity. That we are capable of realizing Unity is a peculiar artefact of self-consciousness. I think maybe our culture was not designed for it, as it has actually been present forever (more obviously at some times than others) and for lack of vocabulary and consensus and so on, it came to be generally ignored (in this particular bodymind) until reading the Upanishads reawoke it, and later TM reawoke it, and finally ceasing TM and acknowledging perfection now stabilized it. I apologize in advance for the serious inaccuracies this paragraph embodies :-) It's not the case that the mind is lazy or naughty or malfunctioning when it defends itself. It's working just as it was designed to work. It did not prove to be necessary (in its old form) for physical survival of the bodymind as US in perfection-now, at any rate. Think about it a little more. I am sorry, I am no great thinker these days. I am only saying our survival does *not now* depend on the intellect in its separatist functioning; that we do not physically die when it ceases to separate us from not-us. I am not saying everything becomes an indistinguishible blob... most of the time :-) And I'd take a wild guess and say that the intellect continues to be ignorant of Perfection Now after realization as well. Maybe so. My understanding is that the old intellect virtually disappears into something more like moment-to-moment intuition or appreciation of the continuously emerging miracle of here-now. Yeah, but it's still making distinctions. The traffic light is green, the traffic light is red. This is a bottle of milk, this is a bottle of drain cleaner. Absolutely. Unless we choose to shift the vibration out of this particular movie, it keeps merrily running along, bless its heart :-) snip Maybe it awakens or stimulates some, but any such statements that don't begin, I know this is not your current reality, but my reality is... But you see, I *don't* know that this is not your current reality, other than by your telling me so. I am beginning to believe you, though :-) Believe it. That's what ignorance is, Rory. See? You've forgotten. You're ignorant of ignorance. Absolutely - a memory of a memory and so on ... I am basically asleep or dreaming in most of (my) creation, and there is not much to really grab my attention until I stir and begin to wake -- then the fun begins :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It worries me a little to think what might happen if a significant number of people become realized. If they all behave like this--with the best will in the world--toward those still in ignorance, there's going to be trouble. One further thought: unconditional love and compassion is not the same as empathy. Without empathy--and a good healthy dose of common sense--unconditional love and compassion may end up doing more harm than good. Empathizing doesn't mean accepting; it *does* mean being able to acknowledge, and to tread carefully. I *do* acknowledge your assessment of your condition, and that for you your assessment of you is realer than mine is of you (as of course it must and should be, if we are separate); but what is it I am to tread carefully around? *Feelings*. Yes; feelings are most important. What feelings are arising that you would like me to tread carefully around? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It appears to me to be more like waking up doesn't mean you can recall the dream. You'd better watch out, Judy, I am starting to disbelieve you are in ignorance, again :-) No, see, that conclusion is purely a product of the distinction-making intellect. It's based on observation of the kinds of things realized people tend to say. It's as if you all need to be reeducated as to what it was like for you before you awakened, at least if you expect to be able to converse with those in ignorance. I don't mean to sound snappish, by the way. I'm just trying to be as clear as I possibly can be. No, no, it's OK -- you are reminding me that I am unable to actually discuss this with those in ignorance. The trouble is, my heart does *not* see you in ignorance :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
