Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2007-06-11 Thread Johannes Gebauer
On 08.06.2007 Jonathan Smith wrote: Also, you need to take a close look at the features you receive for the price. They only attempt to bring Sib. in line with today's Finale. They have again taken many of the best features in Finale and are trying to incorporate them into their program. It's

[Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2007-06-11 Thread Jonathan Smith
Existing Finale users can cross-grade to Sibelius 5 for $199 US. Cheers, - Darcy And it works the same the other way, Sibelius users can cross-grade to Finale for $199 US. I have to use both programs, and I find the Sibelius upgrade price way too expensive for the features it offers

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2007-06-11 Thread Jonathan Smith
On 08.06.2007 Jonathan Smith wrote: Also, you need to take a close look at the features you receive for the price. They only attempt to bring Sib. in line with today's Finale. They have again taken many of the best features in Finale and are trying to incorporate them into their program.

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2007-06-11 Thread dhbailey
Jonathan Smith wrote: Existing Finale users can cross-grade to Sibelius 5 for $199 US. Cheers, - Darcy And it works the same the other way, Sibelius users can cross-grade to Finale for $199 US. I have to use both programs, and I find the Sibelius upgrade price way too expensive for the

Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2007-06-08 Thread Phil Daley
Remember this? Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:29:04 +0100 From: Jonathan Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] O.K. for David, Mark Joel (+ any lurkers) here goes. Remember this his a list from a little way back (actually, I did post it on the

[Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2007-06-08 Thread Jonathan Smith
Remember this? Hey, I remember that! I called them two days ago to register Sib3 on a mac intel laptop as the Sib. software blocked me from registering via the internet. I was told by their rep. that it would run really slowly on a Macintel chip. So, I guess the backwards compatibility

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2007-06-08 Thread Darcy James Argue
Existing Finale users can cross-grade to Sibelius 5 for $199 US. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 08 Jun 2007, at 5:13 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: Remember this? Hey, I remember that! I called them two days ago to register Sib3 on a mac intel laptop as the Sib.

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-16 Thread Johannes Gebauer
Randall Stokes schrieb: I have spent much of that time deep within the bowels of Finale. So you don't always see much of my work on the surface, but Finale is faster and more stable as a result of it. Much of this will provide a foundation for future growth. Things coming down the pike like

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-16 Thread Andrew Stiller
On Jul 15, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Ken Durling wrote: Andrew - That's easy too - just use the key below the one mentioned earlier - the key for the number 8. I give up. I know there was a legitimate problem, because I spent a long time futzing with it, manual in hand, and ended up calling

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-16 Thread Dean M. Estabrook
And again, I say, Amen!! Dean On Jul 16, 2005, at 9:19 AM, Technoid wrote: On 7/15/05, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15 Jul 2005, at 4:21 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I'm really having a great deal of trouble trying to figure out what you saw in the above that you felt

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 1:46, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 15 Jul 2005, at 1:35 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 15 Jul 2005 at 1:17, Darcy James Argue wrote: Any ATI or nVidia graphics card with 32MB or more supports OpenGL (and, on Windows, Direct3D -- the Windows version of Sib may use

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
Tyler Turner wrote: Thanks. Yes, I've looked into this some in the past, but it's a bit of a hassle to do it with my free Yahoo account, and the free software that's available for doing it is from what I understand pretty buggy. Although I have a Yahoo I.D., due to membership in yahoo lists,

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
David W. Fenton wrote: I would think that MakeMusic would want someone's job description to include monitoring this list, in any case. There are too many heavy hitters here to ignore, in my opinion. But it's their business, and if they want to miss such an opportunity, then that's their

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Phil Daley
At 7/15/2005 01:35 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: Is nVidia the chipset that ATI uses? Mine is ATI and I know it's an nVidia chipset. I can't seem to find any way to poke the thing to find out how much RAM it has. Right click the desktop. Choose Properties. Choose Settings. Click the Advanced

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Ken Durling
At 10:17 PM 7/14/2005, you wrote: The Intel graphics controller is not a proper graphics controller at all -- it means there is no separate graphics card, and the CPU has to handle drawing in addition to everything else. Whether it supports OpenGL or Direct3D is anyone's guess -- if it did,

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Phil Daley
At 7/15/2005 10:45 AM, Ken Durling wrote: At 10:17 PM 7/14/2005, you wrote: The Intel graphics controller is not a proper graphics controller at all -- it means there is no separate graphics card, and the CPU has to handle drawing in addition to everything else. Whether it supports OpenGL or

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Andrew Stiller
On Jul 14, 2005, at 11:42 AM, Ken Durling wrote: At 07:36 AM 7/14/2005, you wrote: Another Sibelius flaw, unmentioned in the long list quoted in this thread, is its inability (as of Sib. 3) to break secondary beams. To me this is a deal breaker all by itself, though I do keep a copy of the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Andrew Stiller
On Jul 14, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: the selection tool has been so slow as to be completely useless on MacFin since 2k4. It's faster to just drag whatever's in front out of the way and reposition it later. Isn't that a little extreme? I often get files sent to me that

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Ken Durling
At 09:19 AM 7/15/2005, you wrote: In 4/4 time, enter two 16ths followed by a 16h-note triplet. You will see two beams linking all five notes. The proper notation would be for the inner beam to be broken between the duplet and the triplet, but Sibelius 3 cannot do this. I was told as much, in

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Ken Durling
At 12:03 PM 7/15/2005, you wrote: Wow. That's an easy one. I can't believe tech support said it wasn't possible. Enter the notes as you've described above, Oops, I neglected to say - select the first 16th in the triplet, THEN go to the 3rd keypad (F10), and hit / - or mouse the top

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 7:23, Phil Daley wrote: At 7/15/2005 01:35 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: Is nVidia the chipset that ATI uses? Mine is ATI and I know it's an nVidia chipset. I can't seem to find any way to poke the thing to find out how much RAM it has. Right click the desktop. Choose

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 15 Jul 2005, at 3:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Phil, I do this kind of thing for a living, so I don't really need instructions from you for how to look up this information, especially when you don't seem to be aware of the aspects of your advice that are OS- and driver-specific. If I gave

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 15:48, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 15 Jul 2005, at 3:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Phil, I do this kind of thing for a living, so I don't really need instructions from you for how to look up this information, especially when you don't seem to be aware of the aspects of

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 15 Jul 2005, at 4:21 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: You should be glad I hold my tongue in response to Phil. Practically every post he makes betrays attitudes that I find (let's find a euphemism) annoying. I don't respond, since most times he's not replying to me. Be glad you only see it

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Randall Stokes
David W. Fenton wrote: Back in the Randy Stokes days, we had somebody like that, but who also was one of the programmers and could give technical explanations for problems. Boy, but I do miss Randy. Having him around really increased my confidence in Finale. And it seems that back in the days

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 17:56, Randall Stokes wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: Back in the Randy Stokes days, we had somebody like that, but who also was one of the programmers and could give technical explanations for problems. Boy, but I do miss Randy. Having him around really increased my

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Andrew Stiller
In 4/4 time, enter two 16ths followed by a 16h-note triplet. You will see two beams linking all five notes. The proper notation would be for the inner beam to be broken between the duplet and the triplet, but Sibelius 3 cannot do this. I was told as much, in so many words, by Sibelius tech

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Ken Durling
Andrew - That's easy too - just use the key below the one mentioned earlier - the key for the number 8. Ken At 06:25 PM 7/15/2005, you wrote: In 4/4 time, enter two 16ths followed by a 16h-note triplet. You will see two beams linking all five notes. The proper notation would be for the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-15 Thread Ken Durling
At 06:32 PM 7/15/2005, you wrote: Andrew - That's easy too - just use the key below the one mentioned earlier - the key for the number 8. Ken And lest ye Finale-niks should think this is too obscure - the number 8 key - on the third (F10) keypad it does have a continuous 16th beam icon

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
Ken, thanks. The last version of Sib I did serious work in was 1.4, so I'm all-too familiar with many of those frustrations. Some of the fixes I knew about, and some I didn't, but the nicest thing about Mr. Spreadbury's comments is that they seem to reflect a genuine change in attitude from

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Karen
Christopher, I for one, not speaking for anyone else of course but suspecting I'm not alone, appreciate you once again for your voice of reason. Even when I don't agree with what is posted on this list, I nonetheless appreciate the merit in such...there is usually something to be gained.

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Matthew Hindson Fastmail Account
Darcy James Argue wrote: It was grabbing the tie ends that was hard (especially when items overlapped). Apparently there's now a shortcut to cycle through overlapping items, which is nice (and which would be nice for Finale). Can't you cycle through overlapping items with the selection

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread dhbailey
Christopher Smith wrote: Ken, Great work! Thanks for this; it is indeed point by point and extremely detailed. Of course, given the source, some points will bear confirmation, but it was good to see someone who knows the present version of the program as well as the older version give a

Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Phil Daley
At 7/13/2005 09:03 PM, Ken Durling wrote: Sorry, Phil. I overreacted because it was so old as to defy relevance in my eyes. But of course I know the program. I'm sure it's interesting and relevant to someone who hasn't been tracking its progress.. See the response on this list from Daniel

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Aaron Sherber
At 06:12 AM 07/14/2005, dhbailey wrote: Compare that with MakeMusic's official disregard for this list and how we have to look out for each other. On the other hand, Coda does provide forums (as does Sibelius) which are officially monnitored. It would be nice if there were an official presence

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Andrew Stiller
68: It is impossible to have two brackets of the same type in different horizontal positions, as for example when a divided string section uses extra staves. This is still fiddly to do, and we should have better automatic support for it. Fiddly is a bit euphemistic. At least as of Sib.

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 1:23, Darcy James Argue wrote: If you don't have an OpenGL-compatible graphics card with at least 32 MB of video RAM, Sibelius redraws will be painfully slow. Could that be the problem? I corresponded at length with the same very nice Sibelius employee who annotated the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 14 Jul 2005, at 1:52 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Nonetheless, the competitor program, Finale, exhibits no such problems. That's because Finale doesn't use OpenGL-enhanced drawing. If you have an OpenGL-compatible video card, drawing in Sib 3 is virtually instantaneous, and drawing in Sib

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 6:12, dhbailey wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: Great work! Thanks for this; it is indeed point by point and extremely detailed. Of course, given the source, some points will bear confirmation, but it was good to see someone who knows the present version of the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 7:36, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 06:12 AM 07/14/2005, dhbailey wrote: Compare that with MakeMusic's official disregard for this list and how we have to look out for each other. On the other hand, Coda does provide forums (as does Sibelius) which are officially monnitored.

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread A-NO-NE Music
David W. Fenton / 2005/07/14 / 01:52 PM wrote: Nonetheless, the competitor program, Finale, exhibits no such problems. It used to. I remember painful redraw slowness prior to FinMac3, and there was an option to turn off redraw until you ask for it. ProComp had much faster redraw back then, but

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 10:36, Andrew Stiller wrote: Another Sibelius flaw, unmentioned in the long list quoted in this thread, is its inability (as of Sib. 3) to break secondary beams. To me this is a deal breaker all by itself, though I do keep a copy of the program to edit the occasional

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 14:00, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 14 Jul 2005, at 1:52 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Nonetheless, the competitor program, Finale, exhibits no such problems. That's because Finale doesn't use OpenGL-enhanced drawing. If you have an OpenGL-compatible video card, drawing

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 14:13, A-NO-NE Music wrote: David W. Fenton / 2005/07/14 / 01:52 PM wrote: Nonetheless, the competitor program, Finale, exhibits no such problems. It used to. I remember painful redraw slowness prior to FinMac3, and there was an option to turn off redraw until you ask

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 14 Jul 2005, at 2:13 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Darcy James Argue / 2005/07/14 / 02:00 PM wrote: If you have an OpenGL-compatible video card, drawing in Sib 3 is virtually instantaneous, and drawing in Sib 4 is still very good. (There are some slowdowns when you have to actually adjust

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Aaron Sherber
At 02:06 PM 07/14/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: Back in the Randy Stokes days, we had somebody like that, but who also was one of the programmers and could give technical explanations for problems. Boy, but I do miss Randy. Having him around really increased my confidence in Finale. And it seems

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 14 Jul 2005, at 2:18 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: That's because Finale doesn't use OpenGL-enhanced drawing. If you have an OpenGL-compatible video card, drawing in Sib 3 is virtually instantaneous, and drawing in Sib 4 is still very good. (There are some slowdowns when you have to actually

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Johannes Gebauer
David W. Fenton schrieb: Secondly, the implementation of default beaming rules is exactly what I've always requested for Finale. Finale works a lot better since the implementation of classic 8ths into the basic beaming algorithm, but it still doesn't properly beam smaller subdivisions (at

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread A-NO-NE Music
Darcy James Argue / 2005/07/14 / 02:33 PM wrote: Hiro, I don't think you understood what I meant. Ha-ha. I did it again. I reread it and you are right I got it backward. Sorry about that. By the way, in general, the difference between OGL app and non-OGL app is CPU hit rather than GUI

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
--- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back in the Randy Stokes days, we had somebody like that, but who also was one of the programmers and could give technical explanations for problems. Boy, but I do miss Randy. Having him around really increased my confidence in Finale.

RE: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Fisher, Allen
Nope. Randy's still here. He just does more lurking (:-P) these days. A -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Sherber Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:36 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius At 02:06 PM

RE: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Fisher, Allen
] comparing finale/sibelius Darcy James Argue wrote: It was grabbing the tie ends that was hard (especially when items overlapped). Apparently there's now a shortcut to cycle through overlapping items, which is nice (and which would be nice for Finale). Can't you cycle through overlapping

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 14 Jul 2005, at 3:18 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Ah, but you can cycle through overlapping elements with the +/- keys in the selection tool... Yes, but Allen, as you know, the selection tool has been so slow as to be completely useless on MacFin since 2k4. It's faster to just drag

RE: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
Account Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:20 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius Darcy James Argue wrote: It was grabbing the tie ends that was hard (especially when items overlapped). Apparently there's now a shortcut to cycle through overlapping

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Gerhard Torges, geb. Hölscher
Hello Tyler, Am 14.07.2005 um 21:15 schrieb Tyler Turner: Part of the nice thing about the forum is that the organization into threads makes it much easier to browse through and quickly see where your input is beneficial and skip over the stuff where you aren't needed. You can get the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Gerhard Torges, geb. Hölscher
Hello Darcy, Am 14.07.2005 um 08:04 schrieb Darcy James Argue: 14 Clunky text selection for expressions etc. I assume this is a complaint about our word menu system (where you right-click during text input for a useful menu of terms to input into the score). This is actually pretty

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
--- Gerhard Torges, geb. Hölscher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Tyler, Am 14.07.2005 um 21:15 schrieb Tyler Turner: Part of the nice thing about the forum is that the organization into threads makes it much easier to browse through and quickly see where your input is beneficial

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 14:36, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 02:06 PM 07/14/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: Back in the Randy Stokes days, we had somebody like that, but who also was one of the programmers and could give technical explanations for problems. Boy, but I do miss Randy. Having him around

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 14:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 14 Jul 2005, at 2:18 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: That's because Finale doesn't use OpenGL-enhanced drawing. If you have an OpenGL-compatible video card, drawing in Sib 3 is virtually instantaneous, and drawing in Sib 4 is still very

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 14:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: When Sib3 first came out, there was a discussion on this list of the effectively instantaneous graphics-card assisted redraw. Several PC users downloaded the demo and reported the same results. Um, the Sibelius 3 demo is FINE on my PC --

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 12:15, Tyler Turner wrote: I'll be honest. When I was working as an employee of MakeMusic, I tried to keep up with this list so I could comment when needed. But boy, there are so many e-mails going through here every day that keeping up here meant not being able to keep up

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread John Bell
On 15 Jul 2005, at 02:11, David W. Fenton wrote:I would think that MakeMusic would want someone's job description to  include monitoring this list, in any case. There are too many heavy  hitters here to ignore, in my opinion. SecondedJohn___ Finale

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 1:25, Gerhard Torges, geb. Hölscher wrote: Am 14.07.2005 um 08:04 schrieb Darcy James Argue: 14 Clunky text selection for expressions etc. I assume this is a complaint about our word menu system (where you right-click during text input for a useful menu of terms to

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
--- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I don't find this at all difficult in the Sibelius 4 demo. I can select and entire measure and apply an articulation to all notes. Of I can click a note and then shift-click any additional notes, then apply an articulation. This

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 18:31, Tyler Turner wrote: --- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I don't find this at all difficult in the Sibelius 4 demo. I can select and entire measure and apply an articulation to all notes. Of I can click a note and then shift-click any

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread dhbailey
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 02:06 PM 07/14/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: Back in the Randy Stokes days, we had somebody like that, but who also was one of the programmers and could give technical explanations for problems. Boy, but I do miss Randy. Having him around really increased my

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
David, You don't have to use partial measure selection, *or* the apply articulation dialog. In the articulation tool, hold down the metatool for the articulation you want, and then just drag enclose the notes you want. I only wish note expressions worked like this too. - Darcy -

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
--- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, that's a feature I'd never seen before, but it seems to me that it hardly relates at all to the scenario I outlined. First off, it only works for copying from existing music to music that is similar. Useful as that is, it is

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 22:15, Darcy James Argue wrote: You don't have to use partial measure selection, *or* the apply articulation dialog. In the articulation tool, hold down the metatool for the articulation you want, and then just drag enclose the notes you want. I only wish note

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 19:25, Tyler Turner wrote: --- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, that's a feature I'd never seen before, but it seems to me that it hardly relates at all to the scenario I outlined. First off, it only works for copying from existing music to music

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 14 Jul 2005, at 11:15 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 14 Jul 2005 at 22:15, Darcy James Argue wrote: You don't have to use partial measure selection, *or* the apply articulation dialog. In the articulation tool, hold down the metatool for the articulation you want, and then just drag

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 23:37, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jul 14, 2005, at 11:15 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 14 Jul 2005 at 22:15, Darcy James Argue wrote: You don't have to use partial measure selection, *or* the apply articulation dialog. In the articulation tool, hold down the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 14 Jul 2005, at 11:23 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: My point is that Finale only allows a range of notes. If you start on beat 1 and end on beat 3, beat 2 is included. Sibelius allows you to select beat 1 and beat 3 without selecting beat 2. This is a useful feature. But David, the point

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 0:02, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 14 Jul 2005, at 11:23 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: My point is that Finale only allows a range of notes. If you start on beat 1 and end on beat 3, beat 2 is included. Sibelius allows you to select beat 1 and beat 3 without selecting beat

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 23:57, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 14 Jul 2005, at 11:15 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 14 Jul 2005 at 22:15, Darcy James Argue wrote: You don't have to use partial measure selection, *or* the apply articulation dialog. In the articulation tool, hold down the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
But it does *not* offer the same functionality. It only offers the ability to copy from one source to another. Well, unless I completely do *not* understand how it works -- the online documentation says it's for COPYING. That's great if you've got a model to copy from, but it still

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
--- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finale requires the same number of mouse clicks if you metatool applied to each individual note. But the result is as many UNDO buffer events as there were mouse clicks. In Sibelius, you have the same number of ctrl-clicks as Finale has

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 15 Jul 2005, at 12:22 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: In Finale you cannot select the 1st and 3rd of 3 notes in one operation. But you don't NEED to do this, is my point. In Finale, you can select *and* apply the articulation with a single click (or drag-enclose operation). So being able to

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 21:29, Tyler Turner wrote: But it does *not* offer the same functionality. It only offers the ability to copy from one source to another. Well, unless I completely do *not* understand how it works -- the online documentation says it's for COPYING. That's

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
--- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With only two notes involved, the comparison is pretty equal, but if there's more, Sibelius is clearly quicker. Only if you intend to do something more with the notes after the fact, right? Sibelius: Hold Ctrl and click 20 non-contiguous notes

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
--- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't get why there's any benefit to it beyond regular mass copy used selectively. That *also* copies between the same rhythmic values, but also has the advantage in some cases of copying to *different* rhythmic values. That's the

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 21:37, Tyler Turner wrote: --- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finale requires the same number of mouse clicks if you metatool applied to each individual note. But the result is as many UNDO buffer events as there were mouse clicks. In Sibelius, you

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 0:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 15 Jul 2005, at 12:22 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: In Finale you cannot select the 1st and 3rd of 3 notes in one operation. But you don't NEED to do this, is my point. In Finale, you can select *and* apply the articulation with a

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 21:58, Tyler Turner wrote: --- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, if articulations always had handles like expressions do, then the Sibelius functionality would be blown away. Articulations always showing handles in Finale? Which version are you using?

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Ken Durling
It does have 32mb of video RAM, but I don't think it has OpenGL. To be honest I'm not really even sure how or where that would be indicated. I have an Intel 82810 graphics controller.w/32MB on the slower machine, and an NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5700 w/64MB video RAM on the fast one. That tell

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
Hi Ken, Any ATI or nVidia graphics card with 32MB or more supports OpenGL (and, on Windows, Direct3D -- the Windows version of Sib may use Direct3D, I don't know). The Intel graphics controller is not a proper graphics controller at all -- it means there is no separate graphics card, and

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 15 Jul 2005 at 1:17, Darcy James Argue wrote: Any ATI or nVidia graphics card with 32MB or more supports OpenGL (and, on Windows, Direct3D -- the Windows version of Sib may use Direct3D, I don't know). Is nVidia the chipset that ATI uses? Mine is ATI and I know it's an nVidia chipset. I

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Tyler Turner
One thing I am forgetting in Sibelius... what's the workaround for copying articulations without notes? You can't separately filter the property elements of notes, which includes the articulations. Tyler __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo!

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 15 Jul 2005, at 1:35 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 15 Jul 2005 at 1:17, Darcy James Argue wrote: Any ATI or nVidia graphics card with 32MB or more supports OpenGL (and, on Windows, Direct3D -- the Windows version of Sib may use Direct3D, I don't know). Is nVidia the chipset that ATI

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-14 Thread David W. Fenton
On 14 Jul 2005 at 22:30, Tyler Turner wrote: --- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to see a better, more consistent implementation of partial measure selection in Finale, as well as the ability to do non- contiguous selections. Having that capability in partial

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Richard Yates
Missing from this list is: 70. Note spacing cannot be set to avoid collisions with expressions. This, combined with the inability to move articulations horizontally, was the key deficiency in my deciding not to buy Sibelius. Richard Yates I was looking through my archives. I guess Sib must

Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Ken Durling
I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks like it was from version 1.4. I'm really not sure what relevance it has at this point. But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, things that haven't and things that display an ignorance of how Sibelius works. Did

Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Phil Daley
At 7/13/2005 09:49 AM, Ken Durling wrote: I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks like it was from version 1.4. I'm really not sure what relevance it has at this point. But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, things that haven't and things that display

[Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Jonathan Smith
I did this list years back, at v1.4 and then again after v2. Many of the points as you mention are fixed, some still there, and there are always new ones to moan about.But I don't think these things are a bash at anything. There are 2 good notation applications out there, Finale and Sibelius. They

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Christopher Smith
On Jul 13, 2005, at 9:49 AM, Ken Durling wrote: I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks like it was from version 1.4. I'm really not sure what relevance it has at this point. But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, things that haven't and things

Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread David W. Fenton
On 13 Jul 2005 at 6:49, Ken Durling wrote: I don't have time to go over this point by point, but this list looks like it was from version 1.4. I'm really not sure what relevance it has at this point. But at a glance I see things that have been fixed, things that haven't and things that

Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Ken Durling
Well, I, for one, would like to see a point-by-point response to each of the items. Maybe somebody could do something like: David - I forwarded the list to someone at Sibelius as I had to work all day today. here's a point-by-point response from the source: Hi Ken, Thanks for

Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Christopher Smith
Ken, Great work! Thanks for this; it is indeed point by point and extremely detailed. Of course, given the source, some points will bear confirmation, but it was good to see someone who knows the present version of the program as well as the older version give a reaction to the criticisms

Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread Ken Durling
Sorry, Phil. I overreacted because it was so old as to defy relevance in my eyes. But of course I know the program. I'm sure it's interesting and relevant to someone who hasn't been tracking its progress.. See the response on this list from Daniel at Sibelius, to whom I forwarded your

Re: Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

2005-07-13 Thread David W. Fenton
Thanks, Ken, for posting this -- I definitely appreciate it. On 13 Jul 2005 at 17:33, Ken Durling wrote (quoting two other people): 34. Speed users will find that you are constantly grabbing the wrong items as the application is so slow to react. The responsiveness of the program is, in

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