Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
That is extremely true yohandi. I personally feel the same way you do. You know I also play mainstream games a lot. I just don't find it fair. That is all I have to say. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: 07 February 2011 18:13 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Here's the thing, Ken. That's exactly why blind people tend to avoid games... in the minds of most it's all about beating the game. While I share the sentiment I also like the pleasure of seeing what I can mess around with in any game... action adventures, for example... I run around slaughtering enemies til I find a way through to advance the story. Sometimes a walkthrough will help. At 06:19 AM 10/02/2011, you wrote: Not true. I used to play Doom2 and could not only shoot, but punch as well. Okay, maybe I never won the game, but again that was fifteen years ago! Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Ken, Yeah, but to be fair Doom and Doom II ar childs play compared to the games of today. The levels are so much more complex now with not only north, south, east, west directions but the addition of up and down as well. That makes it almost virtually impossible to figure out where to go in the level if you don't have someone telling you go left, go right, turn around, climb up that staircase, etc. After you play the game enough you'll remember take so many steps and turn left and try and walk through this or that doorway, but its not something you'll figure out on your own. Cheers! On 2/10/11, Ken the Crazy wrote: > Not true. I used to play Doom2 and could not only shoot, but punch as well. > Okay, maybe I never won the game, but again that was fifteen years ago! > Ken Downey > President > DreamTechInteractive! > And, > Blind Comfort! > The pleasant way to experience massage! > It's the Caring > without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Not true. I used to play Doom2 and could not only shoot, but punch as well. Okay, maybe I never won the game, but again that was fifteen years ago! Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad time with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a** and level layouts are huge. At 07:48 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Could you play it before it had been modified? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "Ken the Crazy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 07:57:50AM -0800, Clement Chou wrote: > No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad > time with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a** [My Reply:] Can't you just cycle through the targets with the Tab key? You might not have as much fun ricochetting a shell off a wall into a big crowd of monsters who start ripping each other apart rather than you , but hey. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 09:48:43AM -0600, Charles Rivard wrote: > Could you play it before it had been modified? [My Reply:] Heh. I can barely play it, even WITH the modifications. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi, I actually have a piano. I also have a violin, but I never ever got trained to use one. In year 3, I got trained to use a drum. Probably for a turm, I couldn't aford it. - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message ----- From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad time with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a** and level layouts are huge. At 07:48 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Could you play it before it had been modified? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "Ken the Crazy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Could you play it before it had been modified? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "Ken the Crazy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
That is true. However, Quake's been adapted and modified to suit us... whereas the games we're talking about have not. At 07:19 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
My Strat plays and sounds better than any Guitar Hero instrument, and is more fun to not only play, but to feel the power of a healthy E chord through even my little 2-channel Sears Silvertone amp with 2 12-inch woofers. An old piggy-back tube amp out of the middle sixties. And, as mentioned previously, in Guitar Hero, improvisation caused mistakes to be registered. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being positive. But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general sentiment is, playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock band, and while I like both, I have to agree with him. I prefer my trusty LTD electric guitar. At 05:03 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert without even trying are real musicians. There are also people that aren't musicians at all that come over and play rock band, and when they started they had no idea what a harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and they were extremely terrible at the game. now some of them can point out harmonies when they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it merely a game is a bit unfair. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime. At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message ----- From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing t
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
You'd have to combine a few games to come up with something like "Grand Theft Tank" because I don't have a driver's license, even though, so far, I've never had an auto accident. (grin) --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Must say I too agree here- it's why I tend to dislike realistic RP-related games/muds- why RP real life when I'm living it every day? If I am going to RP, I want to RP something I can't do in RL- such as RPing a psychotic killer?! lol And yes, killing someone in Rl may be more fun than playing mortal kombat- but you'll miss out on the part where you kill the same person over and over again a thousand times! - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime. At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@a
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I definitely see your point. I play piano remember? There's definitely a difference between pro mode, and playing a real piano. However what I got out of Charles's email was basically that there was no point in playing a game when you can actually play a real instrument, and I disagree with his way of thinking. Playing a real instrument is extremely fun, but playing Rock Band is also fun and rewarding and those that play real instruments shouldn't just disregard the game as a useless gimmick. There's obviously great potential in the series. Consider for a moment all the people that have never played a musical instrument, and that are now playing songs on pro expert guitar and uploading them to youtube, and you'll start to realize what Harmonix has created here is just incredible. Harmonix is already planning to add composition and improvisation to Rock Band 4, and I'm telling ya, the game can't come fast enough for me! - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being positive. But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general sentiment is, playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock band, and while I like both, I have to agree with him. I prefer my trusty LTD electric guitar. At 05:03 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert without even trying are real musicians. There are also people that aren't musicians at all that come over and play rock band, and when they started they had no idea what a harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and they were extremely terrible at the game. now some of them can point out harmonies when they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it merely a game is a bit unfair. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime. At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock ba
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Yohandy, The games you are siting here iare unrealistic. Charles alludeto Guitar Hero do to the factthat you can actually do better in real life if you are a musician. (Sorry Ihave to agree with that statement as I am a musician myself, to a degree). Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:38 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for > real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the > volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play > along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other > musicians than use something artificial. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts! > - Original Message - > From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > >> Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you >> actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted >> person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play >> rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored >> games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it >> when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly >> because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no >> difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you >> guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means >> that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. >> someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. >> all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that >> outlook on life. >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Damien Pendleton" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. >> >> >>> Hi Liam, >>> I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person >>> can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am >>> willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy >>> the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you >>> can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the >>> point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up >>> embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your >>> sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. >>> Regards, >>> Damien. >>> >>> >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being positive. But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general sentiment is, playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock band, and while I like both, I have to agree with him. I prefer my trusty LTD electric guitar. At 05:03 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert without even trying are real musicians. There are also people that aren't musicians at all that come over and play rock band, and when they started they had no idea what a harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and they were extremely terrible at the game. now some of them can point out harmonies when they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it merely a game is a bit unfair. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime. At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.or
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert without even trying are real musicians. There are also people that aren't musicians at all that come over and play rock band, and when they started they had no idea what a harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and they were extremely terrible at the game. now some of them can point out harmonies when they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it merely a game is a bit unfair. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime. At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime. At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. ----- Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searche
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hilarious, amigo. lol. I know squat about programming... and a game like that would really, really definitely take years to write. Especially with one or two people. At 04:25 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 02:12:53PM -0500, Yohandy wrote: > Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when > you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? Hey, sometimes I just don't like being friggin reminded of what I lost, okay? Unless the game has been written to take my handicap into account, why should I take the game developer into account with my money? Sometimes fair is fair, and I refuse to go along behind the sighted community, sweeping up their messes with my broom. Not unless I absolutely have to. It's not my job, cleaning up after other people's thoughtless actions. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 01:12:47PM -0500, Yohandy wrote: > I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band > samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some > street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that > when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to > create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 > people are the ones to always respond? I for one, wouldn't respond because of the following: 1: I don't have the game. 2: I am not interested in the particular game. 3: Someone else has already talked about it before me. 4: I simply have nothing to add. 5: I might be interested in hurrying up and getting past the other 2000 friggin messages posted to the list today, so I can accomplish something else today, besides answering posts from this mailing list. HTH, Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
True enough. The reason I'm asking is whether narated menu options would change the mind of those who wanted to play fighters, but didn't want to spend time learning menus and such. And it would be something good for people who enjoyed games with strategy to them, as well as needing good reflexes and timing is all. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
That, I will agree with. I only play it when I have friends around... it has no single-player appeal for me. At 08:56 AM 08/02/2011, you wrote: About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I would not, due to a lack of interest in that kind of game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, a Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up weapons, just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of characters, good amount of moves per character and a solid combo system. No audio cues during fights, so basically a mainstream game, with talking menus. Would people play that? Again, if so, why, and if not, why not? At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: hmmm If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it. I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible. Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota g3d port in 3d mode. I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to walk round we would be ok. I am actually not sure how to answer the question. If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be accessible. Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure what would have to be done if not allready. THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must. There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to listen. And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d directions these days. HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like vb6 and autoit to the new systems which are not fully active yet. From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much. If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though. I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality is I don't have the space for a stick. The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving away from that. At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated options, would people play it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I agree. Now if it was Uilleann Pipe Hero I'd bite since those that's an instrument that's fascinated me for years. But those things are fearfully expensive from what I've noticed. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
hmmm If a mainstream did that I would probably try it at least. Most audio games have cues for sertain events though with the g3d stuff with the usa mota thing you actually have to view things to see what it is and if you know it well it doesn't shift so. At 04:16 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I usually comment on the games that I have an interest in. As to mainstream gaming, a lot of them must be used on a gaming console, which I don't have the money to buy, and, if I could afford one, would the expense be justified if a very few games are those I would be interested in playing? Then, there are games in which you must memorize so much because there aren't enough audio cues that I would be robotically performing remembered sequences rather than reacting to difficulties that would make the game fun. I'm not at all interested in a "Grand Theft Auto" game, or in a street fighting game, or in a lot of what is being produced. A good baseball game in which I perform the action rather than manage the team, a good bowling game in which I am the bowler, that I can tell which pins remain after each bowled ball, that will give the scores, that can be played by one or more players as individuals or teams, that requires skill rather than pure luck to succeed, I would be interested in. I don't want to have to rely on any sighted assistance of any kind to play my games. I don't want to spend hours memorizing menus and submenus before even getting to the desired result. I want to just go through a user's guide, have that guide available as I work though the game, and get to actually playing and enjoying the game in under half an hour after getting the game. If you know of several such games that can be played on one gaming console, let me know, and I'll consider it. Until that time, I'll stay with games designed to be played without eyesight. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try t
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I'm afraid ken, at least in my case, the simple reason is that I don't have a packmate or braille display. I'd love to play nethack if I could, but don't have the cash for the display. I'm not sure how much this applies to other people, but certainly, the fact that something is free, or that it has been adapted wouldn't put me off. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Ken the Crazy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I understand where you're coming from. I put together a game pack form the Pac Mate a couple years ago that had Scrabble, Chess, Minesweeper, Nethack and a bunch of other stuff. It took hours to make each game work. I suppose my mistake was to say that the games were visual. Well, they were visual, but with a Pac Mate you could play them just fine, because I had adapted them to work with Braille displays. I got maybe three comments. Part of the deal I know is that that if you give something for free, it is lowly esteemed--such is it everywhere. Put a hefty price tag on it and suddenly there's interest. I also remember doing a recording for Wii Sports and using the Wii in general and the little feedback I got about that. Believe me, I quite understand. Also, when I put out Wrecking Ball there were few comments because the main input device is the mouse. Also, I think Che had a hard time convincing people that the mouse would work. Personally, I haven't listened to the Rock Band samples for a couple reasons. First, my Wii broke and I haven't been able as yet to afford to get another, and then there's spending more to get Rock Band, so all that would happen if I did is that I'd get sore salivary glands from drooling in envy. Also, I can only perceive music on my best days now--it sounds horrible most of the time. As for the street fighter game, again I would have to get a console to play it on. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I play Mortal Kombat sometimes. It's all mono though, so I don't know where I am in relation to my opponent. If it had stereo sound and I could figure out a way to know which player I was, then I would probably get in trouble with my wife for playing it too frequently. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, a Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up weapons, just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of characters, good amount of moves per character and a solid combo system. No audio cues during fights, so basically a mainstream game, with talking menus. Would people play that? Again, if so, why, and if not, why not? At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: hmmm If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it. I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible. Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota g3d port in 3d mode. I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to walk round we would be ok. I am actually not sure how to answer the question. If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be accessible. Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure what would have to be done if not allready. THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must. There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to listen. And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d directions these days. HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like vb6 and autoit to the new systems which are not fully active yet. From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much. If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though. I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality is I don't have the space for a stick. The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving away from that. At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated options, would people play it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I can't do that. I remember my mobility teacher trying to teach me that skill, and it was the only one I failed to learn--and it was the one I tried my best to master too. I remember I had a small handheld video game back in 1983. There was a pattern to beating the each level, and it was the same every time, so I beat the game many times, yet if I try to make an actual visual map in my head of what it would look like I just can't do it. I think it's related to that blind guy who can paint. Give him a coffee cup, a dinner plate, a cigar box, a shoe--doesn't matter, he can paint it. I can picture exactly what the coffee cup feels like, but I would have no way to draw it, and if I felt a Braille picture of a coffee cup I wouldn't have a clue as to what it was supposed to be unless someone pointed it out. Okay, we've established that I'm spacially retarded. Oh well. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Damien, Smile. Oh, I never suggested you were loony, stupid, or any of those things. However, your point of thinking of a route as a list of instructions rather than a mental map is a great point I was trying to illistrate to Yohandy. Not all of us have the same skills and/or abilities which makes playing certain genres of games more difficult than others. I, for example, have excellent sspacial orientation. I've been told by a number of o&m instructers that I have a very sharp mind when it comes to remembering routes etc in my head. The reason for that is I can picture a mental map of the route, remember everything in proper context, and can use that information to pretty much plot my course. I can even use that skill for quickly assessing where I am in a strange place I've never been in before. It is like I have a mental mapping feature in my head that draws and redraws the route in my head as I go. Understandably not everyone, such as yourself, is able to do this. Obviously, this skill is a huge advantage for me in accessible games. Any game like Sarah, Shades of Doom, Pacman Talks, Monkey Business, etc that requires figuring things out in a realistic spacial context is fairly easy for me. I simply form a map in my head of the level, as best that I can, and then begin moving around in that mental map until I figure it out. Once I played the game a couple of times I never get lost again. That gives me a huge advantage. Coming back to my point though there are games like Tomb Raider with far less accessibility than Shades of Doom or Sarah. Unlike Shades of Doom there is a third axis of movement up/down that makes the levels far more complex to navigate. There are ropes, ladders, staircases that have to be navigated to reach certain rooms above the one you are in. You really have to have extremely good spacial orientation to figure this out if you are blind because you will have to use your ears and memory to get around the levels. If you reduce it to a simple list of left, right, up, down, foward, and backward type things it just won't cut it. You litterally have to keep a memory of the map, the level's exact layout, in your head at all times. Cheers! On 2/7/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Thomas, In my experience I know some other blind people, who have been blind since birth, who struggle with spacial awareness. I, for example, can learn a route somewhere but find it hard to reverse the rules when finding my way back. I can't conceptualise it as a map in my head, but rather have to construct it as a list of instructions that I have to remember. If I find that concept hard in real life, goodness knows how hard it will be in a game where you don't physically have the landmarks there instead of as sounds. Granted, I have some small mental difficulties that make it harder for me than maybe other blind people, but I don't like to get into that any more since I used to be ridiculed a lot for it. I'm not a loony though, trust me. *Grin* Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes o
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Yep, I'm with ya, both on being a carnivore and having trouble with accessible games. My hearing fluctuates terribly, and I find games I used to love, like Pong, very hard on bad days. Mostly I take to writing nowadays, and sometimes I play NetHack on the Pac mate. I remember being a kid and throwing pity parties because of my blindness. I just wish I could have had an inkling of what I've been going through for the last five years, for then I would have appreciated music and sound to the extreme. Ah well, live and learn I suppose. I still can walk, talk, write, eat and drink. Blessings indeed. Also, my hearing gets better sometimes, and I'm thankful for that too. Anyway, I've been trying to come up with an accessible game that's all in mono, so hearing problems won't matter--but I just can't find an interesting way to do it, lest I end up designing another game like APH did. (Now that I think about games and hearing loss, those games don't seem quite as stupid to me.) Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Johnny Tai" To: "Philip Bennefall" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Heh, it's like a confirmed carnivore like me can't understand why would anyone willingly become vegetarian- everytime I run into one I think, 'god, what's wrong with you?!' but of course, I don't say anything because I know I should know better than feeling the way I do. When people do not like what you do, it's not a crime- nor is it 'wrong.' They're just different. For example, having no hearing in one ear, I find alot of our supposedly accessible games frustrating in the extreme to play- but for the most part, I still play them, but I don't expect to be good at them, nor to like them very much. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I am made to remember being about ten. My dad got me the Music Constructor kit for the Commodore 64. My best friend told me that it was all visual, and that there was no way I would be able to learn it. So, I stayed up for three days and nights, tinkering, bugging my dad, and when it was all said and done, I had a twenty-page Braille manual describing all the program's features and how a blind person could use it. I never made really awesome compositions with it, but I knew how to work it and that was the main thing. I believe that the real limitations of blind people are their "I Can'ts." Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. and that right there is the problem. why do you guys keep coming back to sight? I'm 100% blind. Most video games need sight, but there are also many that don't. so why do you guys keep insisting that all video games require some degree of vision to play? that's the big question I would like an answer to. is it just cause someone tells you that video games are strictly for sighted people, and therefore they're right no matter what we say or do to prove you wrong? how can you sit there watching someone play games, and not even make an attempt to try it for yourself? is it the fear of being ridiculed perhaps? I'm really trying hard to understand this guys, but I just can't fathom it. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen. If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to shell out for a console. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I understand where you're coming from. I put together a game pack form the Pac Mate a couple years ago that had Scrabble, Chess, Minesweeper, Nethack and a bunch of other stuff. It took hours to make each game work. I suppose my mistake was to say that the games were visual. Well, they were visual, but with a Pac Mate you could play them just fine, because I had adapted them to work with Braille displays. I got maybe three comments. Part of the deal I know is that that if you give something for free, it is lowly esteemed--such is it everywhere. Put a hefty price tag on it and suddenly there's interest. I also remember doing a recording for Wii Sports and using the Wii in general and the little feedback I got about that. Believe me, I quite understand. Also, when I put out Wrecking Ball there were few comments because the main input device is the mouse. Also, I think Che had a hard time convincing people that the mouse would work. Personally, I haven't listened to the Rock Band samples for a couple reasons. First, my Wii broke and I haven't been able as yet to afford to get another, and then there's spending more to get Rock Band, so all that would happen if I did is that I'd get sore salivary glands from drooling in envy. Also, I can only perceive music on my best days now--it sounds horrible most of the time. As for the street fighter game, again I would have to get a console to play it on. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I kn
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Unsurprisingly yes, but then again that's not saying much from me, as I'd play steet fighter anyway if I had the console, and I would get the console if there were more games I could play for it or if I had more cash. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated options, would people play it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Problem is not everybody enjoys that sort of game. It's just not their style. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, a Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up weapons, just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of characters, good amount of moves per character and a solid combo system. No audio cues during fights, so basically a mainstream game, with talking menus. Would people play that? Again, if so, why, and if not, why not? At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: hmmm If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it. I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible. Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota g3d port in 3d mode. I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to walk round we would be ok. I am actually not sure how to answer the question. If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be accessible. Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure what would have to be done if not allready. THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must. There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to listen. And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d directions these days. HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like vb6 and autoit to the new systems which are not fully active yet. From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much. If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though. I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality is I don't have the space for a stick. The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving away from that. At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated options, would people play it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Well said. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Gary Whittington" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yawn! A gamer is a person who plays a game. Not a person trying to figure out how to play the game. Sounds like, training monkeys. You hear a sound you respond, run, leap, shot. or if you don't you die. Sounds like a lot of fun. While I had site and played VG even in 3D. The point is gaming companies don't tend to make VG games accessible for the blind. So why even support a media that don't give a crap. Why go to a web site that makes you struggle. Instead you would just find a accessible web site with the same context. The inaccessible web page may be pretty and have great sounds, but why, spend time to do something that you would lined to make notes or try to remember what needs to be done. While a accessible web page you can figure out quickly and don what you want in a snap. Same thing with a game. Games should be fun not work to get a little fun. And that's what this list is all about. Finding and creating blind games that are blind friendly. As for myself, coding with Jaws scripts for sport computer sum games. I enjoy the challenge of making baseball, football, basketball and hockey games blind friendly and friendly with each new idea I find to do so. And this improves my playability. Which sums the whole thing up. Putting down the blind gaming community for not responding to what you feel is above every one else is a little snobbish. Having to answer over and over and getting upset about it, well, do something. Like, post F/Q on a web page to link to or face book it. Then you can simply post in email the links. So, let's not bore the list with why we all suck and you don't cause we play VG. Like me, I have a small with sports sum in the blind game community niche. But I don't, cry on the list why is not more interested in what I like. This does only dishonors your work on trying to build an interested in VG. Just don't take it to heart and be dishearten. Use the email list group a as a social network to get the word out. Even in a newsletter kind of of a way. Now that would be something I would check out on the list. When it has some formation like a new letter, instead of just posting quick quips or sound clips. All I am saying is try thinking out of the box more. Even my Pools and fantasy leagues, started out small. And able to make them grow, I had to have some patience. And what I discovered over time is that what is a lot of fun to some one, is not going to be not fun at all to others. And this is where you want to be focused on. Those who are having fun are thus who are having a great time I had created, what I thought was the best NFL Pool not only for the blind community but any NFL pool out there on the web. In 2011 I plan on skimming down a bit for the NCAA Brackets and NFL pool. Which is a tool to bring aboard newbie's for the first time, to build up the pools more. In conclusion, its great to have passion for something, but don't expect everyone else to have the same excitement. The blind gamers list is just that. A email for the blind and games. Smiles, that is a lot of lead way there for a lot of stuff and VG is just part of the whole not the universe. That's all folks, back to hitting my delete key. I'll shut the hell up. But really Ho hum And for those who create accessible games and those making main stream games blind friendly. From me and all those who have a great time playing them a big thanks to you for the passion for working so hard to give to the blind community a chance to play games just for the blind in one form or another. Crash - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there a
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, a Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up weapons, just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of characters, good amount of moves per character and a solid combo system. No audio cues during fights, so basically a mainstream game, with talking menus. Would people play that? Again, if so, why, and if not, why not? At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: hmmm If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it. I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible. Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota g3d port in 3d mode. I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to walk round we would be ok. I am actually not sure how to answer the question. If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be accessible. Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure what would have to be done if not allready. THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must. There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to listen. And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d directions these days. HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like vb6 and autoit to the new systems which are not fully active yet. From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much. If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though. I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality is I don't have the space for a stick. The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving away from that. At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated options, would people play it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
hmmm If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it. I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible. Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota g3d port in 3d mode. I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to walk round we would be ok. I am actually not sure how to answer the question. If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be accessible. Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure what would have to be done if not allready. THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must. There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to listen. And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d directions these days. HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like vb6 and autoit to the new systems which are not fully active yet. From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much. If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though. I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality is I don't have the space for a stick. The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving away from that. At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated options, would people play it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Well ios is a different thing all together. Internal screenreaders on macs and other things means there are more chances of getting accessible games. That loads of stuff works is just cool and for another the i market and accessible macs in general is not that old only a few years. The big companies havn't got on to that just yet and most stuff costs less than a packet of chips. At 02:12 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: Yeah. I kind of wish Papa Sangre came to consoles actually, just to spark interest in audio games, because i hear of two more iOS audio games coming out that are under development. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi, > I like those. Certainly I've never experienced one in a mainstream title but > Papa Sangreis a good example of this kind of thing and it works nicely. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Orin > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:35 PM > To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > Hi Philip, > > That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing > the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something > like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head > around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial > in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial > level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the > real game begins. > > Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by > implementing it well into the story. > > > Orin > orin8...@gmail.com > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks > Skype: orin1112 > > > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > >> Hi Yohandy, >> >> I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If > the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted > assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu > options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. > I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just > because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my > friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but > that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the > manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone > sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 > for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to > buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a > few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that > I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Philip Bennefall >> - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. >> >> >> Hey guys, >> Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely >> frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm >> sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. >> you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV >> samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for >> feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people > simply >> either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to >> always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply >> that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've >> noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most >> simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it >> immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the >> subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the >> thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this >> frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list >> even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must >> we do to get you guys interested
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I also wanted to comment on this message that I am a rockband fan and other DJ video games out there since I love music it makes you feel like a rock star. On 2/7/2011 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote: Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I have to say we should be open to all ideas of gaming, even though allot of people like audio games, but we also have to focus on video gaming as well, otherwise if we don't focus on these issues, neither the WII nor the sonie Playstation or any gaming systems in this matter will ever become accessible do to lack of interests. Remember folks if we want video games or gaming systems to become accessible, since the market only focuses on the majority, then we as a community have to push and strive for our goals of doing this to get our voices heard. I enjoy the sonie play station especially for the football and baseball games since they have lots of neat audio gaming sounds and they make you feel that you are at the stadium and playing the real game. I also like Call of Duty 5 however since it isn't accessible I have to have some one with sighted assistance tell me all the time which way to move and help find the weapons, wouldn't it be nice people if one day we can have that ability ourselves to shoot the guns, pick our own weapons score on our own with out sighted assistance, just sit back and think about it. Now however I am not a game developer, I just test software or games and report bugs if I think if there are any, however there are games out here that may not be an interest to me. So anyway NCAA football and Madden NFL almost sound like Jim Kitchen's NFL game so the EA baseball sounds like Jim Kitchen's baseball game and call Duty 5 has the same realistic sounds of Tank commander so there it is folks it is up to you as individuals on how you approach gaming and the gaming industry. On 2/7/2011 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote: Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they c
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Yohandy, When I was younger like in my late teens and early twenties video games were just coming out. So I was still playing pinball and now video games like Pong, Space Invaders, Missile Command, Pole Position etc. I of course played the heck out of them both in the arcade as well as at home on my Atari 2600 and Atari 800 XL. Then when my sight deteriorated and was gone, just like driving a car, without the visual feedback, I found no joy in those things anymore. It was just not the same without the visual feedback, just blindly moving the joystick and pressing the button. That just did not do it for me at all. Truthfully that was a long time ago and maybe new video games have enough audio feedback that I could no what I am doing in the game. But I really do want to know what I am doing in the game just like I do with audio games. Plus I do not have hundreds of dollars to throw away on a system that is just going to be frustrating to use because I do not know what is going on in the game or what I am doing in the game. It really was a big waste of money for me to buy the WII game system. The only game that I have ever played on it is bowling and that is only with sighted help. I have tried a couple of others, but was basically just waving the controller around without any feedback. Just dumb and frustrating to me. Oh yeah, and I am not hip on memorizing a bunch of menus just to play a game when I have accessible menus now. BFN Jim Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Yep popasangrey is a grate game. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Yawn! A gamer is a person who plays a game. Not a person trying to figure out how to play the game. Sounds like, training monkeys. You hear a sound you respond, run, leap, shot. or if you don't you die. Sounds like a lot of fun. While I had site and played VG even in 3D. The point is gaming companies don't tend to make VG games accessible for the blind. So why even support a media that don't give a crap. Why go to a web site that makes you struggle. Instead you would just find a accessible web site with the same context. The inaccessible web page may be pretty and have great sounds, but why, spend time to do something that you would lined to make notes or try to remember what needs to be done. While a accessible web page you can figure out quickly and don what you want in a snap. Same thing with a game. Games should be fun not work to get a little fun. And that's what this list is all about. Finding and creating blind games that are blind friendly. As for myself, coding with Jaws scripts for sport computer sum games. I enjoy the challenge of making baseball, football, basketball and hockey games blind friendly and friendly with each new idea I find to do so. And this improves my playability. Which sums the whole thing up. Putting down the blind gaming community for not responding to what you feel is above every one else is a little snobbish. Having to answer over and over and getting upset about it, well, do something. Like, post F/Q on a web page to link to or face book it. Then you can simply post in email the links. So, let's not bore the list with why we all suck and you don't cause we play VG. Like me, I have a small with sports sum in the blind game community niche. But I don't, cry on the list why is not more interested in what I like. This does only dishonors your work on trying to build an interested in VG. Just don't take it to heart and be dishearten. Use the email list group a as a social network to get the word out. Even in a newsletter kind of of a way. Now that would be something I would check out on the list. When it has some formation like a new letter, instead of just posting quick quips or sound clips. All I am saying is try thinking out of the box more. Even my Pools and fantasy leagues, started out small. And able to make them grow, I had to have some patience. And what I discovered over time is that what is a lot of fun to some one, is not going to be not fun at all to others. And this is where you want to be focused on. Those who are having fun are thus who are having a great time I had created, what I thought was the best NFL Pool not only for the blind community but any NFL pool out there on the web. In 2011 I plan on skimming down a bit for the NCAA Brackets and NFL pool. Which is a tool to bring aboard newbie's for the first time, to build up the pools more. In conclusion, its great to have passion for something, but don't expect everyone else to have the same excitement. The blind gamers list is just that. A email for the blind and games. Smiles, that is a lot of lead way there for a lot of stuff and VG is just part of the whole not the universe. That's all folks, back to hitting my delete key. I'll shut the hell up. But really Ho hum And for those who create accessible games and those making main stream games blind friendly. From me and all those who have a great time playing them a big thanks to you for the passion for working so hard to give to the blind community a chance to play games just for the blind in one form or another. Crash - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in some
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
No. The manual on the case is actually a booklet... think of a CD insert atatched to the inside of a CD case. Looks something like that. At 05:17 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: I know that in some board games, or other games of that type, the instructions are printed inside the box lid. Those cannot be scanned using a flat bed scanner. Is this the same case with some of these games? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Games do have instructional manuals... in the cases. Just OCR them. At 04:34 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Philip, That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the real game begins. Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by implementing it well into the story. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. > I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples > up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people > simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? > simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. > I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, > the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling > this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the > list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what > must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or > any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? > why is > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's > so > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a > gamer > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up > to > at least listen to what these games have to of
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I know that in some board games, or other games of that type, the instructions are printed inside the box lid. Those cannot be scanned using a flat bed scanner. Is this the same case with some of these games? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Games do have instructional manuals... in the cases. Just OCR them. At 04:34 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Philip, That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the real game begins. Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by implementing it well into the story. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. > I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples > up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people > simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? > simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. > I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, > the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling > this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the > list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what > must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or > any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? > why is > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's > so > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a > gamer > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up > to > at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a > rock > band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get > any > feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these file
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
true orin I hardly read the manuals. I do for games but only the key reff unless its something I have not read before. Since most programs use the same menus etc getting hotkeys and such is a breeze. At 01:34 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Philip, That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the real game begins. Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by implementing it well into the story. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to > at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock > band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any > feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives > and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a > robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything > else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have > any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio > games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in > general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember > when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought > that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game > and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Yep. But I highly doubt anyone reads them though. Most just pop the game in and play through the tutorial. Most people call those booklet's the "standard instruction booklet". Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Clement Chou wrote: > Games do have instructional manuals... in the cases. Just OCR them. > > At 04:34 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: >> Hi Philip, >> >> That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing >> the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something >> like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head >> around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial >> in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial >> level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the >> real game begins. >> >> Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by >> implementing it well into the story. >> >> >> Orin >> orin8...@gmail.com >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks >> Skype: orin1112 >> >> >> >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: >> >> > Hi Yohandy, >> > >> > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If >> > the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted >> > assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu >> > options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in >> > it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger >> > just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of >> > what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much >> > success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I >> > can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any >> > help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a >> > console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But >> > I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and >> > error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. >> > That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. >> > >> > Kind regards, >> > >> > Philip Bennefall >> > - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" >> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM >> > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. >> > >> > >> > Hey guys, >> > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely >> > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm >> > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. >> > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV >> > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for >> > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply >> > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to >> > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply >> > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've >> > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most >> > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it >> > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the >> > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the >> > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this >> > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list >> > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must >> > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any >> > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of >> > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is >> > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of >> > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about >> > mainstream >> > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so >> > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer >> > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to >> > at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock >> > band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any >> > feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives >> > and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a >> > robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything >> > else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or >> > have >> > any curios
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Game devs will not care because the visually impaired market is too small. That's life. Deal with it. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Orin Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:39 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I have to agree with Yohandy here. Is the mentality so closedminded that people give up just because the menus don't talk? Do you really think that's gonna stop me from playing Marvel VS. Capcom next week? Heck no. Do you really think I won't play Mortal Kombat because of no speech feedback? Or, is it the combos in fighting games and you just don't want to learn them right away at least. My solution? Try Rock Band. Blazblue is also a good fighting game for beginners complete with a playable tutorial, however it is harder than most and faster than your average fighting game, although Marvel VS. Capcom will be the fastest game out of all three games; SF, MK and BB. No matter though, this email is going to uninterested inboxes. Yohandy said it with brilliant execution. P.S. On the audiogames.net forum a few days ago I saw a post wondering if Call of Duty: Black Ops could ever be made accessible. My answer? Probably, if we reach out and show the sighted community we can play video games first. Especially fighting games. Fighting games don't have as much popularity as shooters do because you have to learn them, something of which a blind person can do. The way to show the sighted community we're out there is get excellent at a fighting game and compete at, say, Evo. If we were there, we'd be on G4 and basically famous. So everyone, purchase a PS3/360 and show these people it's possible. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote: > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated options, would people play it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Yeah. I kind of wish Papa Sangre came to consoles actually, just to spark interest in audio games, because i hear of two more iOS audio games coming out that are under development. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi, > I like those. Certainly I've never experienced one in a mainstream title but > Papa Sangreis a good example of this kind of thing and it works nicely. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Orin > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:35 PM > To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > Hi Philip, > > That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing > the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something > like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head > around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial > in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial > level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the > real game begins. > > Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by > implementing it well into the story. > > > Orin > orin8...@gmail.com > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks > Skype: orin1112 > > > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > >> Hi Yohandy, >> >> I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If > the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted > assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu > options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. > I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just > because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my > friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but > that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the > manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone > sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 > for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to > buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a > few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that > I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Philip Bennefall >> - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. >> >> >> Hey guys, >> Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely >> frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm >> sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. >> you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV >> samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for >> feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people > simply >> either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to >> always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply >> that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've >> noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most >> simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it >> immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the >> subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the >> thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this >> frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list >> even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must >> we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or > any >> other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of >> curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why > is >> everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of >> members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about > mainstream >> games. it's all au
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Thomas, Think you hit the nale on the head here. The small number of us will continue to play advanced games and that'll be that, I guess. Which I suppose is perfectly fine with me. Means we won't be noticed as much by developers, although I think I did get the You don't know Jack Jellyvision games developer's attention the other day via email and Twitter today. I emailed the general manager of Jellyvision telling him that, mainly, for the most part, the game can be played with no problems, except the Jack Attack. I also told them on Twitter and they followed me, after I mentioned it, and I don't think they follow everyone who follows them. So, I think I at least peaked their interest. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > I have a few theories what is going on, and these aren't based so much > on fact but just my experience in dealing with the VI gaming community > in general. > > First, is probably simply a lack of interest in the types of games > being presented. I'll take myself for example. I am into mainstream > games, have played several different mainstream games over the years, > but something like Rockband or Street Fighter just simply isn't my > thing. I like adventure games with things like history, treasure > hunting, puzzle solving, etc which is why I'm writing a game like > Mysteries of the Ancients in the first place. Games like Street > Fighter are good games, but I'm not really into that sort of game > personally. Therefore I really don't have much interest in downloading > a podcast on it much less running out and buying a copy for myself. > > Second, is accessibility issues. While Street Fighter, Rockband, > Marvel Verses Capcom, etc are playable it doesn't come easy for most > blind players. For example, the menus don't talk so you have to learn > and memorize the menus for those kinds of games. It is opsticals like > this that put anyone totally blind off from venturing into mainstream > gaming. In their mind it is only half accessible. When mainstream > games have talking menus, spoken feedback for this or that, then > they'll be willing to look at it. Without these accessible features > that Tank Commander, Shades of Doom, etc have they are of the opinion > why bother? > > > Finally, there is the conceptual and skill level gap between > mainstream and accessible audio games. As you know mmainstream games > are written at a skill level, a complexity, far above any audio game > out there. In that sense the average blind gamer, who maybe doesn't > know much about mainstream games, is just totally blown away by the > complexity. It is like overload for him/her since they are absolutely > ignorent about how to begin playing a game like that. Maybe they > simply don't have the skills to do it. > > For example, take Mysteries of the Ancients. Right now I'm adding some > extra features to beta 18 such as timed locks which, to my knowledge, > has never been done before in an audio game. Hard to believe that > something that simple has been around for ages in mainstream games, > but isn't even used in audio games. I could point out hundreds of > other examples just as simple, but the fact is most of the audio > gamers out here are clueless when it comes to mainstream games. A game > like Street Fighter has various complex fighting styles that no audio > game has come close to remotely matching, and is just so totally > different from the audio games we have. > > Basically, what I'm saying is you and I are advanced gamers. Most > blind people are not. They are rather inexperienced, don't know what > is out there, and maybe don't have the skills to pickup and play > Street Fighter, MVC, Mortal Kombat, or anything remotely accessible > for the Play Station, XBox, Wii, etc. They just aren't advanced enough > to get into it.I'll tell you why I think this way. > > For example, take Shades of Doom. That's a game designed for the > blind, by a totally blind game developer, and as games goes it is > pretty simple compared to similar games for the mainstream market. Yet > I have heard countless people say the game is too complicated, it is > too confusing, I can't figure out how to play it, you name it. Now, if > there is a game like that made specifically for the blind and blind > people can't play it how can we expect them to take a step forward and > begin playing mainstream games with less aaccessibility features in > some cases? > > Just some thoughts to think about. I'm not saying that these things > are necessarily true, but those are my thoughts. People aren't really > as interested it as you are. I don't know there is a way to increase > interest in it if their skills are lacking, the games aren't that > interesting to a person, or they are just too complex for the average > blind gamer. > > Cheers! > > > On 2/7/11, Yohandy wrote: >> Hey guys, >>Ok I'm gonn
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi, I like those. Certainly I've never experienced one in a mainstream title but Papa Sangreis a good example of this kind of thing and it works nicely. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Orin Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:35 PM To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Philip, That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the real game begins. Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by implementing it well into the story. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to > at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock > band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any > feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives > and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a > robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything > else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have >
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Games do have instructional manuals... in the cases. Just OCR them. At 04:34 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Philip, That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the real game begins. Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by implementing it well into the story. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to > at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock > band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any > feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives > and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a > robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything > else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have > any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio > games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in > general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember > when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought > that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game > and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good > time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. > absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh o
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Philip, That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created the example but add something like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to wrap my head around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the real game begins. Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by implementing it well into the story. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the > game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, > or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc > before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my > fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I > liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were > talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not > mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, > install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and > also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, > and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console > just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after > countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not > only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to > at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock > band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any > feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives > and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a > robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything > else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have > any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio > games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in > general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember > when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought > that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game > and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good > time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. > absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome > sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank command
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
That's not where the value comes from. Sighted people do the exact same thing. It's the strategy you have to plan to land that combo. Sure you press square, triangle and square for a combo. But you have to plan how you're going to move that character to a point you can nail him. If I'm half the screen away from my opponent, that combo makes no difference. I have to think. What can I do to keep him at a distance until I think of something? Do I use a kick with long range to hold him off? Do I jump up and forward so I can hit him from the air? Can I use a projectile attack to keep him in the corner as I advance to land that combo? It's those things that make fighting games so complicated. At 04:11 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote: Hi, But what does memorizing a few buttons give us? Where's the enjoyment in justknowing that you press x button this many times, then press y button. There's no replay value there. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Shiny protector Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:52 PM To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Philip, Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and that sort of thing. BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please email me off list at the following address. muhamme...@googlemail.com Thankyou! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If > the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted > assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu > options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in > it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger > just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of > what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much > success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I > can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any > help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a > console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But > I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and > error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. > That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - > From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, >Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people > simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or > any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of &g
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi, But what does memorizing a few buttons give us? Where's the enjoyment in justknowing that you press x button this many times, then press y button. There's no replay value there. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Shiny protector Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:52 PM To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Philip, Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and that sort of thing. BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please email me off list at the following address. muhamme...@googlemail.com Thankyou! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If > the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted > assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu > options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in > it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger > just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of > what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much > success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I > can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any > help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a > console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But > I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and > error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. > That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - > From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, >Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people > simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this > frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list > even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must > we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or > any > other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of > curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why > is > everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of > members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about > mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so > much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a > gamer > when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to > at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a > rock > band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any > feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi, While I do have some interest in mainstream possibilities it sounds as if most everything we can play are beat-em-ups which, I must confess, are not really my cup of tea. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Matheus r.c. souza Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:01 PM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. hmm, that's not right, menu memorization is only needed most of the times in the main menu, unless you want to get a rpg or something like that and try to play it, it certainly will be hard. however, if you buy a console such as ps3, there aren't only 3 or for 4 games accessible, there are lots of then, and much more to come in the future. example: mk vs dc, street fighter 4, super street fighter 4, final fantasy xiii, shank, soul calibur 4, dragon ball raging blast 1 and 2, and the other that i don't remember the name, rock band, guitar hero, tekken, mvc3, blasblue and the list goes on and on. if you don't have money to afford the consoles,it's a different thing, but even the ps2 has a very very large selection of playable games, most fighting, but oh well. -Mensagem original- De: "Allison Mervis" Para: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Data: Segunda, 7 de Fevereiro de 2011 16:58 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I think one of the reasons why not many people respond is because I'm not sure how many blind people want to pay $200 or $300 for a mainstream game console on which they might only be able to play three or four games at most. It's definitely not worth it for me. Secondly, when I'm playing a game, I want to get lost in the world of the game itself. IF I have to constantly worry about pressing menu, then button A twice, then pressing down arrow 20 times, then clicking my heels three times, and finally pressing enter and hoping I've landed on the right option, I'm going to lose interest very quickly. Allison -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that peopl
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
that is what got me partly off the text games. In dos I could just go on with little interaction. Now I need to hit my curser to read the screen. This means I do still play but I can't get fully immerced anymore. At 10:58 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: I think one of the reasons why not many people respond is because I'm not sure how many blind people want to pay $200 or $300 for a mainstream game console on which they might only be able to play three or four games at most. It's definitely not worth it for me. Secondly, when I'm playing a game, I want to get lost in the world of the game itself. IF I have to constantly worry about pressing menu, then button A twice, then pressing down arrow 20 times, then clicking my heels three times, and finally pressing enter and hoping I've landed on the right option, I'm going to lose interest very quickly. Allison -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archiv
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
No offense, but the only one here who has expressed anything even resembling true negativity here is you. Some blind people enjoy mainstream games, some don't. The people who enjoy mainstream gaming will comment on your podcasts. The people who don't will not. It's that simple. So take a deep breath, relax, and go play Street Fighter instead of berating those of us who choose not to. Allison -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:39 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. It's not whether I accept it or not, it's the whole negativity surrounding video games based on nothing but speculation and assumptions that I get annoyed about. - Original Message - From: "Liam Erven" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video > games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have > to > deal with that. > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Yohandy > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were > younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like > that? > > you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things > out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that > caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. > > > From: "Philip Bennefall" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > >> Hi Yohandy, >> >> I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. >> If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without >> sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such >> as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have >> no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself >> when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to >> experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the >> time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no >> interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, >> run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and >> also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the >> game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to >> buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win >> a > few times after countless attempts and assistance. >> That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Philip Bennefall >> - Original Message - >> From: "Yohandy" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. >> >> >> Hey guys, >>Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely >> frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. >> I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band >> samples > up. >> you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV >> samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for >> feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people >> simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the >> ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that >> is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not >> audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even >> if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping >> to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of >> messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with >> console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement >> has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through >>
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
hmm, that's not right, menu memorization is only needed most of the times in the main menu, unless you want to get a rpg or something like that and try to play it, it certainly will be hard. however, if you buy a console such as ps3, there aren't only 3 or for 4 games accessible, there are lots of then, and much more to come in the future. example: mk vs dc, street fighter 4, super street fighter 4, final fantasy xiii, shank, soul calibur 4, dragon ball raging blast 1 and 2, and the other that i don't remember the name, rock band, guitar hero, tekken, mvc3, blasblue and the list goes on and on. if you don't have money to afford the consoles,it's a different thing, but even the ps2 has a very very large selection of playable games, most fighting, but oh well. -Mensagem original- De: "Allison Mervis" Para: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Data: Segunda, 7 de Fevereiro de 2011 16:58 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I think one of the reasons why not many people respond is because I'm not sure how many blind people want to pay $200 or $300 for a mainstream game console on which they might only be able to play three or four games at most. It's definitely not worth it for me. Secondly, when I'm playing a game, I want to get lost in the world of the game itself. IF I have to constantly worry about pressing menu, then button A twice, then pressing down arrow 20 times, then clicking my heels three times, and finally pressing enter and hoping I've landed on the right option, I'm going to lose interest very quickly. Allison -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let m
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I think one of the reasons why not many people respond is because I'm not sure how many blind people want to pay $200 or $300 for a mainstream game console on which they might only be able to play three or four games at most. It's definitely not worth it for me. Secondly, when I'm playing a game, I want to get lost in the world of the game itself. IF I have to constantly worry about pressing menu, then button A twice, then pressing down arrow 20 times, then clicking my heels three times, and finally pressing enter and hoping I've landed on the right option, I'm going to lose interest very quickly. Allison -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to ga
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi yoandy and others. i have a gba and a ps2 here, including this pc that's very good for gaming purposes and i'm always looking forward to games that are playable for us. unfortunately i can't get much enjoyment out of rock band, although i have rb 1, 2, 2 track packs, gh 1 2 3 world tour and smash hits i prefer the rb series, and it's unfortunate that they aren't updating it in the ps2, but going back to the topic, i also enjoy fighting games such as mk, sf 4, urban reign, and all the others, the reason that i don't comment in the videos is just because i know very little information about the background of characters, moves, etc. usualy i don't play these games to earn more achievements, first because with the years passing i have less and less time, even to login and talk in msn, so when i feel like playing a fighting game for example i just pick it up, complete it one time or so, beat some peoples, and i feel good with it. however it's my preference and i know that others have different kind of view in everything. just curious, i missed the message with the link for the ceminar, is it still available for downloading? i agree that the blind community should be interested in more of these games, guys, it's easy, memorization is only needed if you want to change all the options, music, etc etc, for example if you're used to these games, even if you aren't with some little efforts you can find where a training menu, vs. mode, etc are in fighting games, the menus are in lots of times in a similar order. not to mention that some games, including all the dbz budokai series (which i own all of then for ps2, and i really love all of then) i'm surprised why no one did a review for the games and sent to brandon.) the menus in this game are all talked, virtua fighter 4 if i remember right menus are also with voice, so this is no excuse for you guys to say that "it's too difficult". i wish i had a current gen console such as ps3 or x360, even a psp would do, but unfortunately i can't afford it, but a ps2 is not all that expensive. if you guys want to get started in these games, just say and i can do a long podcast explaining 5 games for example. some games i don't even remember the menus, i just pick it and see what is what. memorization can go as little or as much as you want, rb for example is the extreme. menus are very easy to navigate, they don't even wrap, but the sounds are hard to play in the higher difficulties, it takes lots of memorizations indeed, but there are some things that help us play the game, such as the pitch of the notes, and knowing the song, and various other things. for those of you that only played audiogames, i don't even know if they can be compared to these mainstream games, some of then in my opinion can, but there are rare ocasions, very very rare. yes, we are restricted to a small genre of games, including ritm games, fighting, beat'em ups and if you feel like trying, sports may even be accessible, like soccer, with the commentary giving so much information it's easy to know what's happening. pitermach said that even the drifting mode in need for speed was accessible, i was surprised, i still need to try it out. so, here are my cents, i'm not pretending to criticise anyone with these arguments, just to complement with what others have said. i'm playing videogames for lots of years, the first console i had was a snes, but i also played the mega drive(or genesis)(streets of rage!!) and in the past i've also had a ps1, i think i still have it in my father's house, i think it works. if you're pretending to buy a console that will offer you fun and help you get started, i recommend ps2 definitely, the games now are cheap to buy. but of course if you have money, get the new consoles. hope we can continue discussing this topic, with more peoples knowing about these sighted games, the more we can hope to see games that will offer accessibility for the blind, at least talking menus and features that will help us in more dificulty games, like rpg, etc. just one more thing that i remembered. another example of a totaly playable game for us, for the pc platform, is shank. even with the platforms and stuff, you require little memorization to complete the game although the fighting part is challenging. me and many others have did it, so even if you have a pc, there's still some games you can enjoy. -Mensagem original----- De: "Yohandy" Para: "Philip Bennefall" ,"Gamers Discussion list" Data: Segunda, 7 de Fevereiro de 2011 15:53 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. when I said unrealistic, I was referring to the fact that no developer is ever going to cater to them. so if you're waiting for such a video game to come out, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Also my emai
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
It certainly is for me. I have tried playing a large number of mainstream games with the equipment and assistance of sighted friends. Even in ideal cases where it's turn-based and sighted people have plenty of time to describe stuff, it simply isn't the same as being able to play the game yourself. Simply too much information is conveyed through sight for that to happen. I'd love to play countless arcade games, sidescrollers, rpgs like Oblivion and all sorts of stuff. However, it's just impossible to have a meaningfully fun experience with these games without sight. At best, it becomes a matter of memorisation rather than gaming skill. Frankly, I don't consider memorisation to be fun. It's work. Make me a game that portrays everything in an accessible and auditory manner and I'll happily fork over cash. That's worth my time and money to invest in providing it's within my areas of interest. Even though I'm unemployed, I simply have better things to do with both than invest in games which aren't completely accessible. I want fun for my time and money, an shouldn't have to go through extra headaches and memorisation cartwheels for that fun. I don't at all consider myself narrow-minded, unwiling to learn, or particularly lacking in skill. It's a matter of fairness and a level playing field. I won't sacrifice time towards becoming a robot who remembers precisely the right button to press at the right time just to fit in with the sighted world. What people like that guy who won Zelda blind is very impressive and extraordinary. However, it just isn't the same fundamental experience that a sighted game has with that classic game. It isn't even cloase. It's rather like memorising an entire Shakespear play to the point where you can recite it flawelessly at will. That's just not playing in my book. Another thing to keep in mind is that developers really haven't offered us the same level of complexity. That's due to a number of factors not the least of which is figuring out how to render so much detail in audio form in a way that's intuitively understandable. Michael Feir Volunteer at The Dam www.thedam.org 2011-- Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hmmm, yohandi, possibly you are being a litle too hasty in so instantly deciding people's opinions are based only on assumptions or second hand knolidge. Certainly, I've trried many main stream games myself, in fact I played original street fighter and mortal kombat in the arcades when they first came out. I stil have many friends, and my brother who are gamers, and have both watched them play games and played myself. So, at least in my case, judgement is actually based on experience, and I imagine for at least some other people on the list it would be the same. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Damien, Smile. Oh, I never suggested you were loony, stupid, or any of those things. However, your point of thinking of a route as a list of instructions rather than a mental map is a great point I was trying to illistrate to Yohandy. Not all of us have the same skills and/or abilities which makes playing certain genres of games more difficult than others. I, for example, have excellent sspacial orientation. I've been told by a number of o&m instructers that I have a very sharp mind when it comes to remembering routes etc in my head. The reason for that is I can picture a mental map of the route, remember everything in proper context, and can use that information to pretty much plot my course. I can even use that skill for quickly assessing where I am in a strange place I've never been in before. It is like I have a mental mapping feature in my head that draws and redraws the route in my head as I go. Understandably not everyone, such as yourself, is able to do this. Obviously, this skill is a huge advantage for me in accessible games. Any game like Sarah, Shades of Doom, Pacman Talks, Monkey Business, etc that requires figuring things out in a realistic spacial context is fairly easy for me. I simply form a map in my head of the level, as best that I can, and then begin moving around in that mental map until I figure it out. Once I played the game a couple of times I never get lost again. That gives me a huge advantage. Coming back to my point though there are games like Tomb Raider with far less accessibility than Shades of Doom or Sarah. Unlike Shades of Doom there is a third axis of movement up/down that makes the levels far more complex to navigate. There are ropes, ladders, staircases that have to be navigated to reach certain rooms above the one you are in. You really have to have extremely good spacial orientation to figure this out if you are blind because you will have to use your ears and memory to get around the levels. If you reduce it to a simple list of left, right, up, down, foward, and backward type things it just won't cut it. You litterally have to keep a memory of the map, the level's exact layout, in your head at all times. Cheers! On 2/7/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Thomas, > In my experience I know some other blind people, who have been blind since > birth, who struggle with spacial awareness. I, for example, can learn a > route somewhere but find it hard to reverse the rules when finding my way > back. I can't conceptualise it as a map in my head, but rather have to > construct it as a list of instructions that I have to remember. > If I find that concept hard in real life, goodness knows how hard it will be > in a game where you don't physically have the landmarks there instead of as > sounds. Granted, I have some small mental difficulties that make it harder > for me than maybe other blind people, but I don't like to get into that any > more since I used to be ridiculed a lot for it. I'm not a loony though, > trust me. *Grin* > Regards, > Damien. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I have to agree with Yohandy here. Is the mentality so closedminded that people give up just because the menus don't talk? Do you really think that's gonna stop me from playing Marvel VS. Capcom next week? Heck no. Do you really think I won't play Mortal Kombat because of no speech feedback? Or, is it the combos in fighting games and you just don't want to learn them right away at least. My solution? Try Rock Band. Blazblue is also a good fighting game for beginners complete with a playable tutorial, however it is harder than most and faster than your average fighting game, although Marvel VS. Capcom will be the fastest game out of all three games; SF, MK and BB. No matter though, this email is going to uninterested inboxes. Yohandy said it with brilliant execution. P.S. On the audiogames.net forum a few days ago I saw a post wondering if Call of Duty: Black Ops could ever be made accessible. My answer? Probably, if we reach out and show the sighted community we can play video games first. Especially fighting games. Fighting games don't have as much popularity as shooters do because you have to learn them, something of which a blind person can do. The way to show the sighted community we're out there is get excellent at a fighting game and compete at, say, Evo. If we were there, we'd be on G4 and basically famous. So everyone, purchase a PS3/360 and show these people it's possible. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Feb 7, 2011, at 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote: > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback > or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either > ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always > respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the > games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that > when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in > existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are > threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post > something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of > hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been > leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it > outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested > in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? > don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is > to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? > This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of > people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, > and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. > how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download > the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to > offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at > most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving > these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then > you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not > planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care > what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys > just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality > about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, > consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter > seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we > had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and > over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you > think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like > oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing > some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a > spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after > listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street > Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. > ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me > writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Lol, gotta love the first SF game- it had what, like 4 sets of sound files shared between 12 characters. I'm speaking of SF2- never did play the very first one where you can only play what, two characters? I remember when I played SF2, which was my first ever fighting game- I chose to master Chun-li cause she was the only one who sounded different enough for me to know what's going on rofl. Well, Blanka was okay too- but I tend to be the beauty over beast kinda guy. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hmmm, yohandi, possibly you are being a litle too hasty in so instantly deciding people's opinions are based only on assumptions or second hand knolidge. Certainly, I've trried many main stream games myself, in fact I played original street fighter and mortal kombat in the arcades when they first came out. I stil have many friends, and my brother who are gamers, and have both watched them play games and played myself. So, at least in my case, judgement is actually based on experience, and I imagine for at least some other people on the list it would be the same. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Thomas, In my experience I know some other blind people, who have been blind since birth, who struggle with spacial awareness. I, for example, can learn a route somewhere but find it hard to reverse the rules when finding my way back. I can't conceptualise it as a map in my head, but rather have to construct it as a list of instructions that I have to remember. If I find that concept hard in real life, goodness knows how hard it will be in a game where you don't physically have the landmarks there instead of as sounds. Granted, I have some small mental difficulties that make it harder for me than maybe other blind people, but I don't like to get into that any more since I used to be ridiculed a lot for it. I'm not a loony though, trust me. *Grin* Regards, Damien. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I have a few theories what is going on, and these aren't based so much on fact but just my experience in dealing with the VI gaming community in general. First, is probably simply a lack of interest in the types of games being presented. I'll take myself for example. I am into mainstream games, have played several different mainstream games over the years, but something like Rockband or Street Fighter just simply isn't my thing. I like adventure games with things like history, treasure hunting, puzzle solving, etc which is why I'm writing a game like Mysteries of the Ancients in the first place. Games like Street Fighter are good games, but I'm not really into that sort of game personally. Therefore I really don't have much interest in downloading a podcast on it much less running out and buying a copy for myself. Second, is accessibility issues. While Street Fighter, Rockband, Marvel Verses Capcom, etc are playable it doesn't come easy for most blind players. For example, the menus don't talk so you have to learn and memorize the menus for those kinds of games. It is opsticals like this that put anyone totally blind off from venturing into mainstream gaming. In their mind it is only half accessible. When mainstream games have talking menus, spoken feedback for this or that, then they'll be willing to look at it. Without these accessible features that Tank Commander, Shades of Doom, etc have they are of the opinion why bother? Finally, there is the conceptual and skill level gap between mainstream and accessible audio games. As you know mmainstream games are written at a skill level, a complexity, far above any audio game out there. In that sense the average blind gamer, who maybe doesn't know much about mainstream games, is just totally blown away by the complexity. It is like overload for him/her since they are absolutely ignorent about how to begin playing a game like that. Maybe they simply don't have the skills to do it. For example, take Mysteries of the Ancients. Right now I'm adding some extra features to beta 18 such as timed locks which, to my knowledge, has never been done before in an audio game. Hard to believe that something that simple has been around for ages in mainstream games, but isn't even used in audio games. I could point out hundreds of other examples just as simple, but the fact is most of the audio gamers out here are clueless when it comes to mainstream games. A game like Street Fighter has various complex fighting styles that no audio game has come close to remotely matching, and is just so totally different from the audio games we have. Basically, what I'm saying is you and I are advanced gamers. Most blind people are not. They are rather inexperienced, don't know what is out there, and maybe don't have the skills to pickup and play Street Fighter, MVC, Mortal Kombat, or anything remotely accessible for the Play Station, XBox, Wii, etc. They just aren't advanced enough to get into it.I'll tell you why I think this way. For example, take Shades of Doom. That's a game designed for the blind, by a totally blind game developer, and as games goes it is pretty simple compared to similar games for the mainstream market. Yet I have heard countless people say the game is too complicated, it is too confusing, I can't figure out how to play it, you name it. Now, if there is a game like that made specifically for the blind and blind people can't play it how can we expect them to take a step forward and begin playing mainstream games with less aaccessibility features in some cases? Just some thoughts to think about. I'm not saying that these things are necessarily true, but those are my thoughts. People aren't really as interested it as you are. I don't know there is a way to increase interest in it if their skills are l
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Heh, it's like a confirmed carnivore like me can't understand why would anyone willingly become vegetarian- everytime I run into one I think, 'god, what's wrong with you?!' but of course, I don't say anything because I know I should know better than feeling the way I do. When people do not like what you do, it's not a crime- nor is it 'wrong.' They're just different. For example, having no hearing in one ear, I find alot of our supposedly accessible games frustrating in the extreme to play- but for the most part, I still play them, but I don't expect to be good at them, nor to like them very much. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Could you maybe stop with the one-liners? We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Shiny protector" To: "Philip Bennefall" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Well it is not hard. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hello there, I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That is poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done it in the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the game I was trying at the time. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Shiny protector" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Philip, Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and that sort of thing. BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please email me off list at the following address. muhamme...@googlemail.com Thankyou! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
when I said unrealistic, I was referring to the fact that no developer is ever going to cater to them. so if you're waiting for such a video game to come out, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Also my email wasn't intended to sound accusatory in any way. I'm just a bit frustrated with the community as a whole and most people's unwillingness to even try some of these games out simply because it's way easier to assume they can't play them. It wasn't personal or anything, and I apologize if it seemed that way to you. I'd like to also point out that we don't play games simply based on memory alone. yes we memorize menus, moves etc, but the way you put it it sounds as if we just button mash and hope for the best. Like any average sighted person, these games require practice and skill as well to actually complete, and being blind has nothing to do with how well a blind person plays the game. A sighted person doesn't just magically know all the combos and is automatically good at a particular game, they also need to practice. sometimes for months, to get good at a game on a competitive level. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried to figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more than enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or not. Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to play games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt to play by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory rather than skill. Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good discussion. Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying that you know more about anything game related than those who do not play video games for one reason or another, and that those poor souls are dreadfully ignorant. Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this is the way that your message strikes me. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Then let me apologise also. I definitely did not mean that blind people merely push a series of buttons at random and wait for something to magically work, rather what I meant was that the threshold that you as a blind gamer must cross in order to get some enjoyment out of the game in question is too high for most people including myself. I, for one, am not a patient person. I could never sit for hours on end and learn the levels by heart, nor could I justify the investment if all I am going to get out of it is maybe half or in some cases 75 % of the satisfaction that a sighted person might gain from playing the same title. Understand that these figures are nothing but guesses, and should be taken as such. What I am trying to say is that for me personally, it does not make sense to fork out hundreds of dollars if the games are not going to meet the specifications I listed in my earlier email. And you are right, there are currently few, if any mainstream game development companies who take accessibility into consideration. But I would rather fight the issue on that score than attempt to play complex games where I lack a lot of information etc that is vital for full enjoyment of the product. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. when I said unrealistic, I was referring to the fact that no developer is ever going to cater to them. so if you're waiting for such a video game to come out, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Also my email wasn't intended to sound accusatory in any way. I'm just a bit frustrated with the community as a whole and most people's unwillingness to even try some of these games out simply because it's way easier to assume they can't play them. It wasn't personal or anything, and I apologize if it seemed that way to you. I'd like to also point out that we don't play games simply based on memory alone. yes we memorize menus, moves etc, but the way you put it it sounds as if we just button mash and hope for the best. Like any average sighted person, these games require practice and skill as well to actually complete, and being blind has nothing to do with how well a blind person plays the game. A sighted person doesn't just magically know all the combos and is automatically good at a particular game, they also need to practice. sometimes for months, to get good at a game on a competitive level. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried to figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more than enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or not. Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to play games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt to play by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory rather than skill. Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good discussion. Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying that you know more about anything game related than those who do not play video games for one reason or another, and that those poor souls are dreadfully ignorant. Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this is the way that your message strikes me. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message ----- From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hmmm, yohandi, possibly you are being a litle too hasty in so instantly deciding people's opinions are based only on assumptions or second hand knolidge. Certainly, I've trried many main stream games myself, in fact I played original street fighter and mortal kombat in the arcades when they first came out. I stil have many friends, and my brother who are gamers, and have both watched them play games and played myself. So, at least in my case, judgement is actually based on experience, and I imagine for at least some other people on the list it would be the same. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
It's not whether I accept it or not, it's the whole negativity surrounding video games based on nothing but speculation and assumptions that I get annoyed about. - Original Message - From: "Liam Erven" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have to deal with that. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Damien, Yeah, skill has something to do with it but experience and memory is the key. As plenty of people know by now I absolutely love the Tomb Raider games. I own all of them from the 1997 first Tomb Raider game right up to Guardian of Light released in 2010. However, they are extremely difficult to play if you are blind. You litterally have to break the levels down to remembering how many steps to a certain lever or switch, how many steps to a door, remembering which sound indicates you picked up a rrelic, whatever. It is mind numming memorization. It is not really playing per say. It is simply trying to play as best as you can on past experience and by hours of practicing the same thing over and over again until you get it right. That's what turns me off on playing mainstream games. I like them but I hate spending hours of effort into playing one. Cheers! On 2/7/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > I think it's all to do with skill. I am totally aware that videogames have > sound to them. But it still doesn't help me in winning or knowing exactly > how to play the game. The only reason I didn't get frustrated playing such > games as a kid is that I was simply content in listening to the sounds. If I > played them now, I wouldn't have a clue where to start. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Well said. I enjoy video games but even I think he's been more than a little harsh. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Liam Erven" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have to deal with that. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playi
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Not a moderator, but Philip and Yahandy has razed some valid points. Philip, you are right, his message sounds really harsh. Yahandy, please turn down your frustration level please, but you do have a point. Counting isn't a problem either. Heck, when I first had a mobile phone, It was quite hard to access, but I managed to call certain people without anything like talks or Espeek. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried to figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more than enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or not. Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to play games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt to play by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory rather than skill. Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good discussion. Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying that you know more about anything game related than those who do not play video games for one reason or another, and that those poor souls are dreadfully ignorant. Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this is the way that your message strikes me. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
On the site front yohandi, the problem is the types of mainstream games I would myself be interested in playing do! require site. Rpgs require reading of in game text such as spell or action menues, hp in combat etc, and that's even assuming the dialogue in spoken (which is often not the case). while using sterrio positioning of some sounds it may be possible to play certain parts (and probably only parts), of a 3D action game such as unreal tournament or halflife, more complex 3D games which have full stories, equip modes etc such as Metroid prime would be right out. As for older games, well 2D platformers would be some of the hardest, yet these are some of my favoourite style of games. Generally, the games which I would most like to play, those with plot and exploration are those which are most inaccessible sinse they are those with the most complex interface. This is also why I tend to stick to the sorts of games which have this feature that I can! play, whether these are audio, textual or graphical. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Liam, Personily, I have to speek out my mind. This community has to expand. Yahandy doesn't say oh, if anyone's not interested I will flame them for the rest of their life! He says he's sick of getting responses like oh, this is not accessible, and more. That's his point. - Original Message - From: "Liam Erven" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have to deal with that. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not pla
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Well it is not hard. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hello there, I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That is poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done it in the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the game I was trying at the time. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Shiny protector" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Philip, Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and that sort of thing. BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please email me off list at the following address. muhamme...@googlemail.com Thankyou! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Yohandy, I have a few theories what is going on, and these aren't based so much on fact but just my experience in dealing with the VI gaming community in general. First, is probably simply a lack of interest in the types of games being presented. I'll take myself for example. I am into mainstream games, have played several different mainstream games over the years, but something like Rockband or Street Fighter just simply isn't my thing. I like adventure games with things like history, treasure hunting, puzzle solving, etc which is why I'm writing a game like Mysteries of the Ancients in the first place. Games like Street Fighter are good games, but I'm not really into that sort of game personally. Therefore I really don't have much interest in downloading a podcast on it much less running out and buying a copy for myself. Second, is accessibility issues. While Street Fighter, Rockband, Marvel Verses Capcom, etc are playable it doesn't come easy for most blind players. For example, the menus don't talk so you have to learn and memorize the menus for those kinds of games. It is opsticals like this that put anyone totally blind off from venturing into mainstream gaming. In their mind it is only half accessible. When mainstream games have talking menus, spoken feedback for this or that, then they'll be willing to look at it. Without these accessible features that Tank Commander, Shades of Doom, etc have they are of the opinion why bother? Finally, there is the conceptual and skill level gap between mainstream and accessible audio games. As you know mmainstream games are written at a skill level, a complexity, far above any audio game out there. In that sense the average blind gamer, who maybe doesn't know much about mainstream games, is just totally blown away by the complexity. It is like overload for him/her since they are absolutely ignorent about how to begin playing a game like that. Maybe they simply don't have the skills to do it. For example, take Mysteries of the Ancients. Right now I'm adding some extra features to beta 18 such as timed locks which, to my knowledge, has never been done before in an audio game. Hard to believe that something that simple has been around for ages in mainstream games, but isn't even used in audio games. I could point out hundreds of other examples just as simple, but the fact is most of the audio gamers out here are clueless when it comes to mainstream games. A game like Street Fighter has various complex fighting styles that no audio game has come close to remotely matching, and is just so totally different from the audio games we have. Basically, what I'm saying is you and I are advanced gamers. Most blind people are not. They are rather inexperienced, don't know what is out there, and maybe don't have the skills to pickup and play Street Fighter, MVC, Mortal Kombat, or anything remotely accessible for the Play Station, XBox, Wii, etc. They just aren't advanced enough to get into it.I'll tell you why I think this way. For example, take Shades of Doom. That's a game designed for the blind, by a totally blind game developer, and as games goes it is pretty simple compared to similar games for the mainstream market. Yet I have heard countless people say the game is too complicated, it is too confusing, I can't figure out how to play it, you name it. Now, if there is a game like that made specifically for the blind and blind people can't play it how can we expect them to take a step forward and begin playing mainstream games with less aaccessibility features in some cases? Just some thoughts to think about. I'm not saying that these things are necessarily true, but those are my thoughts. People aren't really as interested it as you are. I don't know there is a way to increase interest in it if their skills are lacking, the games aren't that interesting to a person, or they are just too complex for the average blind gamer. Cheers! On 2/7/11, Yohandy wrote: > Hey guys, > Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm > sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply > either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to > always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply > that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've > noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most > simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it > immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the > subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the > thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Cle
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried to figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more than enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or not. Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to play games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt to play by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory rather than skill. Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good discussion. Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying that you know more about anything game related than those who do not play video games for one reason or another, and that those poor souls are dreadfully ignorant. Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this is the way that your message strikes me. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Even when menue options are visible to me, I cannot read the text and thus need to use counting etc. This stil! takes a degree of memorization and work to do, and that's before we start on the game, especially considdering that many menues or map screens are odd shapes or have options which are context sensative depending upon game area. One game I always wanted to play was castlevania on the gba, but even though the graphics were visible to me, I was not able to simply because all in game items and weapons were collected at random and stuck on a menue in order of collection, with text lables I could not read. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hello there, I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That is poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done it in the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the game I was trying at the time. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Shiny protector" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Philip, Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and that sort of thing. BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please email me off list at the following address. muhamme...@googlemail.com Thankyou! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Yohandy, This is the thing. They are not really unrealistic. Accessible games fit the bill what Philip is talking about completely, hence the reason he, and I for that matter, put our entire support in accessible projects by not only playing them, but also developing them for other people to play. Just because you can figure out what are to you the most simple games doesn't mean that other people can figure them out, making them extremely complicated. You say that giving up isn't the way forward. I agree, hence the reason I spent five years with them before I even knew about accessible games. I still couldn't get anywhere with them, even with games as simple (to the sighted community) as Bloody Roar II and some of the sports games. I had over a hundred playstation games - not one of them could I beat or play, from a gamer's point of view, to satisfaction. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think y
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I aggree philip. And on that note i have played lego starwars with my cousin in a team game. I just shoot everything in site but really its not really playing. At 08:43 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have to deal with that. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > Hi Yohandy, > > I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. > If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without > sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such > as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have > no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself > when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to > experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the > time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no > interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, > run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and > also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the > game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to > buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. > That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - > From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. > > > Hey guys, >Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely > frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. > I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. > you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV > samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for > feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people > simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the > ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that > is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not > audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even > if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping > to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of > messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with > console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement > has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through > in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So > my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in > something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that > matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out > everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone > ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, > and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream > games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. > there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call > yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files > Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to > offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 > downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys > are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a > listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't > know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. > What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have > any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your > audio games
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Ok well its not that fear of ridicule. Its the fact that you can't see what you are doing. Ie if you are on the computer. if I know aprox what I am doing I can do it whout sight. But I can't check. and what will happen and I don't do something wrong. Lets say format c instead fof format e. I won't get any feadback. Nothing its still a valid command. it works. Um no feadback does mean you need to fly on the seat of your pants. Ok, sure with sighted help you could remember the menu structures, maybe even the game moves for each char or whatever and I guess with trial and error, patience and an infinate supply of time which you clearly have it would be good. most of us don't. I have found myself killing games because I can't get things to work and by no means do I usually just go and not bother. But if I can't even get that far not knowing what I need to do then its not worth my time. I would probably be cool if all I did was play mainstreams all day long. At 08:40 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: and that right there is the problem. why do you guys keep coming back to sight? I'm 100% blind. Most video games need sight, but there are also many that don't. so why do you guys keep insisting that all video games require some degree of vision to play? that's the big question I would like an answer to. is it just cause someone tells you that video games are strictly for sighted people, and therefore they're right no matter what we say or do to prove you wrong? how can you sit there watching someone play games, and not even make an attempt to try it for yourself? is it the fear of being ridiculed perhaps? I'm really trying hard to understand this guys, but I just can't fathom it. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen. If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to shell out for a console. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications. From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listenin
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Yohandy, I think it's all to do with skill. I am totally aware that videogames have sound to them. But it still doesn't help me in winning or knowing exactly how to play the game. The only reason I didn't get frustrated playing such games as a kid is that I was simply content in listening to the sounds. If I played them now, I wouldn't have a clue where to start. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. and that right there is the problem. why do you guys keep coming back to sight? I'm 100% blind. Most video games need sight, but there are also many that don't. so why do you guys keep insisting that all video games require some degree of vision to play? that's the big question I would like an answer to. is it just cause someone tells you that video games are strictly for sighted people, and therefore they're right no matter what we say or do to prove you wrong? how can you sit there watching someone play games, and not even make an attempt to try it for yourself? is it the fear of being ridiculed perhaps? I'm really trying hard to understand this guys, but I just can't fathom it. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen. If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to shell out for a console. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
ofcause the other thing people have forgotten is the fact that us blinks can't afford the real expensive stuff. Lets see 1400 for a good laptop, 1300 for software upgrades. now 200 for some good sterio headsets. another 40 for a crappy but servicable headset mic. oh and 50 bucks for some ok speakers with 2.1. maybe 30 for a standard mouse for playing games. And hmm another 30 for a keyboard so I don't smash my keyboard. Right thats it. As you can see thats probably the basics. There is not much more over budjet I can go. This doesn't include the extra 1500 spent on the main upgrades of the systems here, the 600 odd for the recorder I have, and the 30 bucks for extra cabling. and the 200 extra for the router. staggered ofcause. Now, realise its taken me about 5 years to get all these. Now console gaming? Um not possable. 5 years to just the basics maybe a couple 10 buck mics and headphone sets for general purpose away from the system use. Oh maybe 120 for a new board because I made it die. and now after getting the pcs all updated to various new and newish speeds the router will be on its way out after my screenreader upgrade. Here is another 200 for that. Oh and while you are on that lets make my cd player die, and make the moniter decide it needs replacement. Another 300. Then look at the tv, its dieing it needs repolacing. Then the printer its on the fritz again. After all that taking another 2 years, it is probably going to be time to upgrade one of the systems. Lets see my laptop may die at that point or the second desktop unit or the main external drive I use every day. And so it goes on. And while thats not every day and n not for the fact that win7 was given to us as part of my brother's uni studdies it would have cost a lot more. There is no cash for anything else. At the beginning of each year I keep saying, if nothing happens this year, I will buy another audio game or 2. lets see 50+30 is 80 doubled that 140. Ok, maybe not one of them maybe. ANd thats previding I don't loose the router entirely which its been threatening to do for a while. I don't mean to be flaming or anything but its not that easy. I'd like nothing at all but to just sit down all day on my fat behind with a 500 leter bottle of coke, an infinate supply of chips and chocolate, beverages and stuff. Not give a fag about what is happening or when I die or get fat or life in general and play games. I could but well I don't even have the cash to afford much more than 1-2 basic items a year. And I am still at home. Now when I leave, its probably going to be really bad. No broadband for instance. no new systems etc. nothing much in fact. Be lucky you can buy mainstreams at all. You obviously have the cash to squonder and burn. You can obviously afford to sit down with an infinate supply of drink and food in your game world. I think a lot of us me included don't have this privilage though we would like to. At 08:21 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen. If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to shell out for a console. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hello there, I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That is poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done it in the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the game I was trying at the time. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Shiny protector" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Philip, Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and that sort of thing. BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please email me off list at the following address. muhamme...@googlemail.com Thankyou! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curios
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Philip, Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and that sort of thing. BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please email me off list at the following address. muhamme...@googlemail.com Thankyou! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? Th
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
well cost is an issue. I don't have a job, I have games but they are gotten for me once a year or so. Lately real things over games have to take their spot like the new computer, software upgrades, etc. Eventually I may get another game. I'd like to run mainstreams but time cash and the fact I am trying to avoid being a computer junkie and all that. At 08:12 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
aggreed. I also don't have the space. lets see 2 headsets, boxes of wires, software, cds hard drives of which there are 2. tv, pc, you get the idea. I don't even have space for my joystick. The desks and shelving units are full. I actually have no space over what I have right now. At 08:08 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote: Hi, I suspect most people do not have interest in mainstream games for two reasons. First, they require consoles which can run from $200 up to $400 just for the console, never mind the $50 or more price tag for many of the games. Combine that with the relatively small percentage of games that are playable on these systems, and the inaccessibility of much of the content, and that only compounds the issue. Also, many people do not have the time, patience, or sighted help to learn the menu systems for many of the games. Even for me, I usually get someone sighted to help me learn the menu layout and do initial option configuration to my liking. For people who live alone or otherwise can not get anyone to help, this may be a showstopper for them. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audys
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi Yohandy, I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hey guys, Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at h
