Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-10 Thread Ken the Crazy
Not true.  I used to play Doom2 and could not only shoot, but punch as well. 
Okay, maybe I never won the game, but again that was fifteen years ago!

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad time 
with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a** and level 
layouts are huge.


At 07:48 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote:

Could you play it before it had been modified?

---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to 
heart.

- Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Remember that Quake is a mainstream game.  Lots of folks still play it 
too.

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could 
program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out 
there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know 
anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think 
if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it.



- Original Message - From: Clement Chou 
chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side 
of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a 
full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no 
additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection 
screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-10 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Ken,

Yeah, but to be fair Doom and Doom II ar childs play compared to the
games of today. The levels are so much more complex now with not only
north, south, east, west directions but the addition of up and down as
well. That makes it almost virtually impossible to figure out where to
go in the level if you don't have someone telling you go left, go
right, turn around, climb up that staircase, etc. After you play the
game enough you'll remember take so many steps and turn left and try
and walk through this or that doorway, but its not something you'll
figure out on your own.

Cheers!


On 2/10/11, Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote:
 Not true.  I used to play Doom2 and could not only shoot, but punch as well.
 Okay, maybe I never won the game, but again that was fifteen years ago!
 Ken Downey
 President
 DreamTechInteractive!
 And,
 Blind Comfort!
 The pleasant way to experience massage!
 It's the Caring
 without the Staring!

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-10 Thread Clement Chou
Here's the thing, Ken. That's exactly why blind people tend to avoid 
games... in the minds of most it's all about beating the game. While 
I share the sentiment I also like the pleasure of seeing what I can 
mess around with in any game... action adventures, for example... I 
run around slaughtering enemies til I find a way through to advance 
the story. Sometimes a walkthrough will help.


At 06:19 AM 10/02/2011, you wrote:
Not true.  I used to play Doom2 and could not only shoot, but punch 
as well. Okay, maybe I never won the game, but again that was 
fifteen years ago!

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-10 Thread Ben
That is extremely true yohandi.  I personally feel the same way you do.  You
know I also play mainstream games a lot.  I just don't find it fair.  That
is all I have to say.

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: 07 February 2011 18:13
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm 
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for 
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply 
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to 
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply 
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've 
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most 
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it 
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the 
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the 
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this 
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list 
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must 
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any 
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of 
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is 
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of 
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream

games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so 
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer 
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to 
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock 
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any 
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives 
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a 
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything 
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have

any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio 
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in 
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember 
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought

that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game 
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good 
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.

absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome 
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,

that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now 
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went 
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a 
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know 
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas 
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious 
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it 
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my 
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Charles Rivard
You'd have to combine a few games to come up with something like Grand 
Theft Tank because I don't have a driver's license, even though, so far, 
I've never had an auto accident.  (grin)


---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to 
heart.
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real 
life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since 
that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real 
tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - 
From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the 
volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and 
play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with 
other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Charles Rivard
My Strat plays and sounds better than any Guitar Hero instrument, and is 
more fun to not only play, but to feel the power of a healthy E chord 
through even my little 2-channel Sears Silvertone amp with 2 12-inch 
woofers.  An old piggy-back tube amp out of the middle sixties.  And, as 
mentioned previously, in Guitar Hero, improvisation caused mistakes to be 
registered.


---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to 
heart.
- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling 
isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being positive. 
But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general sentiment is, 
playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock band, and while I 
like both, I have to agree with him. I prefer my trusty LTD electric 
guitar.


At 05:03 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap 
between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real 
instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? 
There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the 
time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert 
without even trying are real musicians. There are also people that aren't 
musicians at all that come over and play rock band, and when they started 
they had no idea what a harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and 
they were extremely terrible at the game. now some of them can point out 
harmonies when they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's 
definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it merely a 
game is a bit unfair.




- Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with 
Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust 
out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize 
without being penalized, even... action games are something completely 
different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime.


At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in 
real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities 
since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a 
real tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - From: Charles Rivard 
woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it 
for real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank 
the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, 
and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam 
with other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when 
you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a 
sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you 
can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta 
see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those 
asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering 
that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it 
makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video 
games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's 
called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally 
muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play 
rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I 
really hope you don't always have that outlook on life.




- Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton 
dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind 
person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then 
I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Ken the Crazy

Remember that Quake is a mainstream game.  Lots of folks still play it too.
Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. 
people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I 
wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything 
about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a 
game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it.



- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of 
the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a 
full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional 
audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would 
you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Clement Chou
That is true. However, Quake's been adapted and modified to suit 
us... whereas the games we're talking about have not.


At 07:19 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote:

Remember that Quake is a mainstream game.  Lots of folks still play it too.
Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could 
program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games 
out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, 
you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one 
*grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it.



- Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever 
side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and 
made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with 
no additional audio except naration in the menus and character 
selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Charles Rivard

Could you play it before it had been modified?

---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to 
heart.
- Original Message - 
From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Remember that Quake is a mainstream game.  Lots of folks still play it 
too.

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could 
program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out 
there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know 
anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think 
if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it.



- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of 
the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a 
full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional 
audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, 
would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Clement Chou
No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad time 
with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a** and level 
layouts are huge.


At 07:48 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote:

Could you play it before it had been modified?

---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take 
it to heart.

- Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Remember that Quake is a mainstream game.  Lots of folks still play it too.
Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could 
program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream 
games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? 
Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could 
write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of 
people would buy it.



- Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever 
side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and 
made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with 
no additional audio except naration in the menus and character 
selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Shiny protector

Hi,
I actually have a piano. I also have a violin, but I never ever got trained 
to use one.   In year 3, I got trained to use a drum. Probably for a turm, I 
couldn't aford it.
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real 
life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since 
that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real 
tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - 
From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the 
volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and 
play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with 
other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play 
rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored 
games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it 
when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no 
difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you 
guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. 
all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that 
outlook on life.




- Original Message - 
From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind 
person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I 
am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and 
buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you 
can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the 
point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up 
embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your 
sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.





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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Frost
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 09:48:43AM -0600, Charles Rivard wrote:
 Could you play it before it had been modified?

[My Reply:]

Heh.  I can barely play it, even WITH the modifications. grins

Michael

--
Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org
  Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti


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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-09 Thread Frost
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 07:57:50AM -0800, Clement Chou wrote:
 No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad
 time with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a**

[My Reply:]

Can't you just cycle through the targets with the Tab key?  You 
might not have as much fun ricochetting a shell off a wall into a big 
crowd of monsters who start ripping each other apart rather than you , 
but hey.  Sometimes sacrifices have to be made.

Michael

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  Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti


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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou

I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side 
of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a 
full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no 
additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection 
screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou
No. The manual on the case is actually a booklet... think of a CD 
insert atatched to the inside of a CD case. Looks something like that.


At 05:17 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote:
I know that in some board games, or other games of that type, the 
instructions are printed inside the box lid.  Those cannot be 
scanned using a flat bed scanner.  Is this the same case with some 
of these games?


---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take 
it to heart.

- Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Games do have instructional manuals... in the cases. Just OCR them.

At 04:34 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote:

Hi Philip,

That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was 
developing the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created  the 
example but add something like a tutorial when the start game 
function is called. Want to wrap my head around sound positioning, 
so may do the second example and have a tutorial in that one and 
post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial level or 
levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the 
real game begins.


Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't 
there by implementing it well into the story.



Orin
orin8...@gmail.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
Skype: orin1112



On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote:

 Hi Yohandy,

 I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this
list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play 
without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by 
heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I 
quite frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of 
controller punching myself when I was younger just because I liked 
the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends 
were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but 
that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can 
read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any 
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 
dollars for a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more 
than happy to play. But I am not willing to buy a console just 
because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a few times 
after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that 
I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.


 Kind regards,

 Philip Bennefall
 - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
 frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok 
here goes.  I'm
 sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples  up.

 you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
 samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
 feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, 
people  simply

 either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
 always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that 
is?  simply
 that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio 
games.  I've

 noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
 simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
 immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
 subject. But when we post something having to do with console 
games,  the
 thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been 
feeling  this
 frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to 
the  list
 even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is 
this: what  must
 we do to get you guys interested in something other than 
topspeed 3, or  any

 other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
 curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video 
games?  why is

 everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
 members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about
mainstream
 games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. 
there's  so
 much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call 
yourself a  gamer
 when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and 
I put up  to
 at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I 
put up a  rock
 band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I 
rarely get  any
 feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your 
hard  drives
 and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the 
curiosity of  a
 robot. I don't

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Gary Whittington

Yawn!

A gamer is a person who plays a game.
Not a person trying to figure out how to play the game.
Sounds like, training monkeys.
You hear a sound you respond, run, leap, shot. or if you don't you die.
Sounds like a lot of fun.

While I had site and played VG even in 3D.
The point is gaming companies don't tend to make VG games accessible for the 
blind.

So why even support a media that don't give a crap.
Why go to a web site that makes you struggle.  Instead you would just find a 
accessible web site with the same context.
The inaccessible web page may be pretty and have great sounds, but why, 
spend time to do something that you would lined to make notes or try to 
remember what needs to be done.
While a accessible web page you can figure out quickly and don what you want 
in a snap.

Same thing with a game. Games should be fun not work to get a little fun.

And that's what this list is all about.
Finding and creating blind games that are blind friendly.
As for myself, coding with Jaws scripts for sport computer sum games.
I enjoy the challenge of making baseball, football, basketball and hockey 
games blind friendly and friendly with each new idea I find to do so.

And this improves my playability.  Which sums the whole thing up.

Putting down the blind gaming community for not responding to what you feel 
is above every one else is a little snobbish.
Having to answer over and over and getting upset about it, well, do 
something.

Like, post F/Q on a web page to link to or face book it.
Then you can simply post in email the links.

So, let's not bore the list with why we all suck and you don't cause we play 
VG.


Like me, I have a small with sports sum in the blind game community niche.
But I don't, cry on the list why is not more interested in what I like.
This does only dishonors your work on trying to build an interested in VG.
Just don't take it to heart and be dishearten.
Use the email list group a as a social network to get the word out.
Even in a newsletter kind of of a way.

Now that would be something I would check out on the list.
When it has some formation  like a new letter, instead of just posting quick 
quips or sound clips.

All I am saying is try thinking out of the box more.
Even my Pools and fantasy leagues, started out small.  And able to make them 
grow, I had to have some patience.
And what I discovered over time is that what is a lot of fun to some one, is 
not going to be not fun at all to others.
And this is where you want to be focused on.  Those who are having fun are 
thus who are having a great time
I had created, what I thought was the best NFL Pool not only for the blind 
community but any NFL pool out there on the web.

In 2011 I plan on skimming down a bit for the NCAA Brackets and NFL pool.
Which is a tool to bring aboard newbie's for the first time, to build up the 
pools more.


In conclusion, its great to  have passion for something, but don't expect 
everyone else to have the same excitement.

The blind gamers list is just that.  A email for the blind and games.
Smiles, that is a lot of lead way there for a lot of stuff and VG is just 
part of the whole not the universe.


That's all  folks, back to hitting my delete key.  I'll shut the hell up.
But really Ho hum
And for those who create accessible games and those making main stream games 
blind friendly.

From me and all those who have a great time playing them a
big thanks to you for the passion for working so hard to give to the blind 
community a chance to play games just for the blind in one form or another.


Crash
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:12 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm 
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for 
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones 
to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? 
simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. 
I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most 
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it 
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the 
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the 
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this 
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list 
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must 
we do 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Ian McNamara
Yep popasangrey is a grate game. 

Ian McNamara

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Jim Kitchen

Hi Yohandy,

When I was younger like in my late teens and early twenties video games were 
just coming out.  So I was still playing pinball and now video games like Pong, 
Space Invaders, Missile Command, Pole Position etc.  I of course played the 
heck out of them both in the arcade as well as at home on my Atari 2600 and 
Atari 800 XL.  Then when my sight deteriorated and was gone, just like driving 
a car, without the visual feedback, I found no joy in those things anymore.  It 
was just not the same without the visual feedback, just blindly moving the 
joystick and pressing the button.  That just did not do it for me at all.  
Truthfully that was a long time ago and maybe new video games have enough audio 
feedback that I could no what I am doing in the game.  But I really do want to 
know what I am doing in the game just like I do with audio games.  Plus I do 
not have hundreds of dollars to throw away on a system that is just going to be 
frustrating to use because I do not know what is going on in the game or what I 
am doing in the game.  It really was a big waste of money for me to buy the WII 
game system.  The only game that I have ever played on it is bowling and that 
is only with sighted help.  I have tried a couple of others, but was basically 
just waving the controller around without any feedback.  Just dumb and 
frustrating to me.  Oh yeah, and I am not hip on memorizing a bunch of menus 
just to play a game when I have accessible menus now.

BFN

Jim

Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread jason
I have to say we should be open to all ideas of gaming, even though 
allot of people like audio games, but we also have to focus on video 
gaming as well, otherwise if we don't focus on these issues, neither the 
WII nor the sonie Playstation or any gaming systems in this matter will 
ever become accessible do to lack of interests.  Remember folks if we 
want video games or gaming systems to become accessible, since the 
market only focuses on the majority, then we as a community have to push 
and strive for our goals of doing this to get our voices heard.  I enjoy 
the sonie play station especially for the football and baseball games 
since they have lots of neat audio gaming sounds and they make you feel 
that you are at the stadium and playing the real game.  I also like Call 
of Duty 5 however since it isn't accessible I have to have some one with 
sighted assistance tell me all the time which way to move and help find 
the weapons, wouldn't it be nice people if one day we can have that 
ability ourselves to shoot the guns, pick our own weapons score on our 
own with out sighted assistance, just sit back and think about it.  Now 
however I am not a game developer, I just test software or games and 
report bugs if I think if there are any, however there are games out 
here that may not be an interest to me.  So anyway NCAA football and 
Madden NFL almost sound like Jim Kitchen's NFL game so the EA baseball 
sounds like Jim Kitchen's baseball game and call Duty 5 has the same 
realistic sounds of Tank commander so there it is folks it is up to you 
as individuals on how you approach gaming and the gaming industry.


On 2/7/2011 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote:

Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some 
street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that 
when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to 
create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 
people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the 
reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream 
games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes 
out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's 
all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span 
hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having 
to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm 
sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been 
leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned 
it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys 
interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game 
for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find 
out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone 
ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, 
and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream 
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. 
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call 
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files 
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to 
offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 
downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys 
are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a 
listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't 
know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. 
What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have 
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your 
audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game 
accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, 
consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street 
Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some 
interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some 
really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once 
that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. 
absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had 
awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank 
commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a 
spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, 
after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a 
copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the 
game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess 
lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread jason
I also wanted to comment on this message that I am a rockband fan and 
other DJ video games out there since I love music it makes you feel like 
a rock star.


On 2/7/2011 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote:

Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some 
street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that 
when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to 
create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 
people are the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the 
reason for that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream 
games, not audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes 
out, even if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's 
all jumping to download it immediately and there are threads that span 
hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post something having 
to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm 
sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been 
leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned 
it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys 
interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game 
for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find 
out everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone 
ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, 
and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream 
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. 
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call 
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files 
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to 
offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 
downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys 
are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a 
listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't 
know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. 
What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have 
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your 
audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game 
accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, 
consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street 
Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some 
interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some 
really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once 
that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. 
absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had 
awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank 
commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a 
spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, 
after listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a 
copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the 
game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess 
lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they come to 
mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious about 
gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it 
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  
my self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.






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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread shaun everiss

Well ios is a different thing all together.
Internal screenreaders on macs and other things means there are more 
chances of getting accessible games.
That loads of stuff works is just cool and for another the i market 
and accessible macs in general is not that old only a few years.
The big companies havn't got on to that just yet and most stuff costs 
less than a packet of chips.

At 02:12 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
Yeah. I kind of wish Papa Sangre came to consoles actually, just to 
spark interest in audio games, because i hear of two more iOS audio 
games coming out that are under development.



Orin
orin8...@gmail.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
Skype: orin1112



On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Hayden Presley wrote:

 Hi,
 I like those. Certainly I've never experienced one in a 
mainstream title but

 Papa Sangreis a good example of this kind of thing and it works nicely.

 Best Regards,
 Hayden


 -Original Message-
 From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
 Behalf Of Orin
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:35 PM
 To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

 Hi Philip,

 That's the thing, games don't have manual's anymore. When I was developing
 the tone game in the manual of BGT, I created  the example but 
add something
 like a tutorial when the start game function is called. Want to 
wrap my head

 around sound positioning, so may do the second example and have a tutorial
 in that one and post it. But most games at the beginning have a tutorial
 level or levels which guide you through the operations of it, and then the
 real game begins.

 Most games with a story make it sound as though the tutorial isn't there by
 implementing it well into the story.


 Orin
 orin8...@gmail.com
 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
 Skype: orin1112



 On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Philip Bennefall wrote:

 Hi Yohandy,

 I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
 the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
 assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
 options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no 
interest in it.

 I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just
 because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my
 friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but
 that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the
 manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone
 sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50
 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not 
willing to

 buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a
 few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that
 I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

 Kind regards,

 Philip Bennefall
 - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hey guys,
  Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
 frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
 sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
 you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
 samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
 feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
 simply
 either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
 always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
 that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
 noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
 simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
 immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
 subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
 thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
 frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
 even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
 we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or
 any
 other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
 curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why
 is
 everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
 members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about
 mainstream
 games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
 much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a
 gamer
 when you aren't even willing

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread shaun everiss

hmmm
If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and 
such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are 
today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it.

I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible.
Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified 
loads so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen 
the new mota g3d port in 3d mode.
I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed 
to walk round we would be ok.

I am actually not sure how to answer the question.
If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be accessible.
Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not 
sure what would have to be done if not allready.

THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must.
There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to listen.
And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d 
directions these days.
HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that 
only the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like  vb6 and 
autoit to the new systems which are not fully active yet.

From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much.
If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though.
I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the 
reality is I don't have the space for a stick.
The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are 
moving away from that.

At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of 
a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged 
fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except 
for narated options, would people play it?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou
I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, 
a Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up 
weapons, just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of 
characters, good amount of moves per character and a solid combo 
system. No audio cues during fights, so basically a mainstream game, 
with talking menus. Would people play that? Again, if so, why, and if 
not, why not?


At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote:

hmmm
If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues 
and such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind 
are today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it.

I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible.
Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified 
loads so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen 
the new mota g3d port in 3d mode.
I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we 
needed to walk round we would be ok.

I am actually not sure how to answer the question.
If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be accessible.
Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not 
sure what would have to be done if not allready.

THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must.
There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have 
to listen.
And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d 
directions these days.
HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games 
that only the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like  vb6 
and autoit to the new systems which are not fully active yet.

From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much.
If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though.
I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the 
reality is I don't have the space for a stick.
The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are 
moving away from that.

At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much 
of a discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a 
fully-fledged fighting game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio 
changes except for narated options, would people play it?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Bryan Peterson

Well said.
We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message - 
From: Gary Whittington gary...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Yawn!

A gamer is a person who plays a game.
Not a person trying to figure out how to play the game.
Sounds like, training monkeys.
You hear a sound you respond, run, leap, shot. or if you don't you die.
Sounds like a lot of fun.

While I had site and played VG even in 3D.
The point is gaming companies don't tend to make VG games accessible for 
the blind.

So why even support a media that don't give a crap.
Why go to a web site that makes you struggle.  Instead you would just find 
a accessible web site with the same context.
The inaccessible web page may be pretty and have great sounds, but why, 
spend time to do something that you would lined to make notes or try to 
remember what needs to be done.
While a accessible web page you can figure out quickly and don what you 
want in a snap.

Same thing with a game. Games should be fun not work to get a little fun.

And that's what this list is all about.
Finding and creating blind games that are blind friendly.
As for myself, coding with Jaws scripts for sport computer sum games.
I enjoy the challenge of making baseball, football, basketball and hockey 
games blind friendly and friendly with each new idea I find to do so.

And this improves my playability.  Which sums the whole thing up.

Putting down the blind gaming community for not responding to what you 
feel is above every one else is a little snobbish.
Having to answer over and over and getting upset about it, well, do 
something.

Like, post F/Q on a web page to link to or face book it.
Then you can simply post in email the links.

So, let's not bore the list with why we all suck and you don't cause we 
play VG.


Like me, I have a small with sports sum in the blind game community niche.
But I don't, cry on the list why is not more interested in what I like.
This does only dishonors your work on trying to build an interested in VG.
Just don't take it to heart and be dishearten.
Use the email list group a as a social network to get the word out.
Even in a newsletter kind of of a way.

Now that would be something I would check out on the list.
When it has some formation  like a new letter, instead of just posting 
quick quips or sound clips.

All I am saying is try thinking out of the box more.
Even my Pools and fantasy leagues, started out small.  And able to make 
them grow, I had to have some patience.
And what I discovered over time is that what is a lot of fun to some one, 
is not going to be not fun at all to others.
And this is where you want to be focused on.  Those who are having fun are 
thus who are having a great time
I had created, what I thought was the best NFL Pool not only for the blind 
community but any NFL pool out there on the web.

In 2011 I plan on skimming down a bit for the NCAA Brackets and NFL pool.
Which is a tool to bring aboard newbie's for the first time, to build up 
the pools more.


In conclusion, its great to  have passion for something, but don't expect 
everyone else to have the same excitement.

The blind gamers list is just that.  A email for the blind and games.
Smiles, that is a lot of lead way there for a lot of stuff and VG is just 
part of the whole not the universe.


That's all  folks, back to hitting my delete key.  I'll shut the hell up.
But really Ho hum
And for those who create accessible games and those making main stream 
games blind friendly.

From me and all those who have a great time playing them a
big thanks to you for the passion for working so hard to give to the blind 
community a chance to play games just for the blind in one form or 
another.


Crash
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:12 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street 
fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we 
ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, 
people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are 
the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for 
that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not 
audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if 
it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to 
download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of 
messages on the subject. But when

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Bryan Peterson
Problem is not everybody enjoys that sort of game. It's just not their 
style.

We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, a 
Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up weapons, 
just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of characters, good 
amount of moves per character and a solid combo system. No audio cues 
during fights, so basically a mainstream game, with talking menus. Would 
people play that? Again, if so, why, and if not, why not?


At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote:

hmmm
If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and 
such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, 
but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it.

I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible.
Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads 
so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota 
g3d port in 3d mode.
I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to 
walk round we would be ok.

I am actually not sure how to answer the question.
If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be 
accessible.
Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure 
what would have to be done if not allready.

THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must.
There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to 
listen.
And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d 
directions these days.
HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only 
the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like  vb6 and autoit to 
the new systems which are not fully active yet.

From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much.
If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though.
I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality 
is I don't have the space for a stick.
The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving 
away from that.

At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a 
discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting 
game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated 
options, would people play it?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread dark
Unsurprisingly yes, but then again that's not saying much from me, as I'd 
play steet fighter anyway if I had the console, and I would get the console 
if there were more games I could play for it or if I had more cash.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a 
discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting 
game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated 
options, would people play it?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Ken the Crazy
I understand where you're coming from.  I put together a game pack form the 
Pac Mate a couple years ago that had Scrabble, Chess, Minesweeper, Nethack 
and a bunch of other stuff.  It took hours to make each game work.  I 
suppose my mistake was to say that the games were visual.  Well, they were 
visual, but with a Pac Mate you could play them just fine, because I had 
adapted them to work with Braille displays.  I got maybe three comments. 
Part of the deal I know is that that if you give something for free, it is 
lowly esteemed--such is it everywhere.  Put a hefty price tag on it and 
suddenly there's interest.
I also remember doing a recording for Wii Sports and using the Wii in 
general and the little feedback I got about that.  Believe me, I quite 
understand.
Also, when I put out Wrecking Ball there were few comments because the main 
input device is the mouse.  Also, I think Che had a hard time convincing 
people that the mouse would work.
Personally, I haven't listened to the Rock Band samples for a couple 
reasons.  First, my Wii broke and I haven't been able as yet to afford to 
get another, and then there's spending more to get Rock Band, so all that 
would happen if I did is that I'd get sore salivary glands from drooling in 
envy.  Also, I can only perceive music on my best days now--it sounds 
horrible most of the time.  As for the street fighter game, again I would 
have to get a console to play it on.

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm 
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for 
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones 
to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? 
simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. 
I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most 
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it 
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the 
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the 
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this 
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list 
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must 
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of 
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of 
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. 
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call 
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files 
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? 
Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. 
however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these 
files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then 
you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not 
planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to 
care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you 
guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded 
mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking 
things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little 
Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some 
interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some 
really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that 
seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely 
nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds 
and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, 
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. 
Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar 
went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a 
friend's house and try the game 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Ken the Crazy
I am made to remember being about ten.  My dad got me the Music Constructor 
kit for the Commodore 64.  My best friend told me that it was all visual, 
and that there was no way I would be able to learn it.
So, I stayed up for three days and nights, tinkering, bugging my dad, and 
when it was all said and done, I had a twenty-page Braille manual describing 
all the program's features and how a blind person could use it.  I never 
made really awesome compositions with it, but I knew how to work it and that 
was the main thing.  I believe that the real limitations of blind people are 
their I Can'ts.

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


and that right there is the problem. why do you guys keep coming back to 
sight? I'm 100% blind. Most video games need sight, but there are also 
many that don't. so why do you guys keep insisting that all video games 
require some degree of vision to play? that's the big question I would 
like an answer to. is it just cause someone tells you that video games are 
strictly for sighted people, and therefore they're right no matter what we 
say or do to prove you wrong? how can you sit there watching someone play 
games, and not even make an attempt to try it for yourself? is it the fear 
of being ridiculed perhaps? I'm really trying hard to understand this 
guys, but I just can't fathom it.




- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband 
and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I 
am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen.


If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc 
streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to 
shell out for a console.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Ken the Crazy
Yep, I'm with ya, both on being a carnivore and having trouble with 
accessible games.  My hearing fluctuates terribly, and I find games I used 
to love, like Pong, very hard on bad days.  Mostly I take to writing 
nowadays, and sometimes I play NetHack on the Pac mate.  I remember being a 
kid and throwing pity parties because of my blindness.  I just wish I could 
have had an inkling of what I've been going through for the last five years, 
for then I would have appreciated music and sound to the extreme.  Ah well, 
live and learn I suppose.  I still can walk, talk, write, eat and drink. 
Blessings indeed.  Also, my hearing gets better sometimes, and I'm thankful 
for that too.
Anyway, I've been trying to come up with an accessible game that's all in 
mono, so hearing problems won't matter--but I just can't find an interesting 
way to do it, lest I end up designing another game like APH did.  (Now that 
I think about games and hearing loss, those games don't seem quite as stupid 
to me.)

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Johnny Tai johnnyti...@shaw.ca
To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Heh, it's like a confirmed carnivore like me can't understand why would 
anyone willingly become vegetarian- everytime I run into one I think, 
'god, what's wrong with you?!' but of course, I don't say anything because 
I know I should know better than feeling the way I do.
When people do not like what you do, it's not a crime- nor is it 'wrong.' 
They're just different.
For example, having no hearing in one ear, I find alot of our supposedly 
accessible games frustrating in the extreme to play- but for the most 
part, I still play them, but I don't expect to be good at them, nor to 
like them very much.



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Ken the Crazy
I can't do that.  I remember my mobility teacher trying to teach me that 
skill, and it was the only one I failed to learn--and it was the one I tried 
my best to master too.  I remember I had a small handheld video game back in 
1983.  There was a pattern to beating the each level, and it was the same 
every time, so I beat the game many times, yet if I try to make an actual 
visual map in my head of what it would look like I just can't do it.
I think it's related to that blind guy who can paint.  Give him a coffee 
cup, a dinner plate, a cigar box, a shoe--doesn't matter, he can paint it. 
I can picture exactly what the coffee cup feels like, but I would have no 
way to draw it, and if I felt a Braille picture of a coffee cup I wouldn't 
have a clue as to what it was supposed to be unless someone pointed it out. 
Okay, we've established that I'm spacially retarded.  Oh well.


Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Damien,

Smile. Oh, I never suggested you were loony, stupid, or any of those
things. However, your point of thinking of a route as a list of
instructions rather than a mental map is a great point I was trying to
illistrate to Yohandy. Not all of us have the same skills and/or
abilities which makes playing certain genres of games more difficult
than others.

I, for example, have excellent sspacial orientation. I've been told by
a number of om instructers that I have a very sharp mind when it
comes to remembering routes etc in my head. The reason for that is I
can picture a mental map of the route, remember everything in proper
context, and can use that information to pretty much plot my course. I
can even use that skill for quickly assessing where I am in a strange
place I've never been in before. It is like I have a mental mapping
feature in my head that draws and redraws the route in my head as I
go. Understandably not everyone, such as yourself, is able to do this.

Obviously, this skill is a huge advantage for me in accessible games.
Any game like Sarah, Shades of Doom, Pacman Talks, Monkey Business,
etc that requires figuring things out in a realistic spacial context
is fairly easy for me. I simply form a map in my head of the level, as
best that I can, and then begin moving around in that mental map until
I figure it out. Once I played the game a couple of times I never get
lost again. That gives me a huge advantage.

Coming back to my point though there are games like Tomb Raider with
far less accessibility than Shades of Doom or Sarah. Unlike Shades of
Doom there is a third axis of movement up/down that makes the levels
far more complex to navigate. There are ropes, ladders, staircases
that have to be navigated to reach certain rooms above the one you are
in. You really have to have extremely good spacial orientation to
figure this out if you are blind because you will have to use your
ears and memory to get around the levels. If you reduce it to a simple
list of left, right, up, down, foward, and backward type things it
just won't cut it. You litterally have to keep a memory of the map,
the level's exact layout, in your head at all times.

Cheers!


On 2/7/11, Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net wrote:

Hi Thomas,
In my experience I know some other blind people, who have been blind 
since

birth, who struggle with spacial awareness. I, for example, can learn a
route somewhere but find it hard to reverse the rules when finding my way
back. I can't conceptualise it as a map in my head, but rather have to
construct it as a list of instructions that I have to remember.
If I find that concept hard in real life, goodness knows how hard it will 
be
in a game where you don't physically have the landmarks there instead of 
as
sounds. Granted, I have some small mental difficulties that make it 
harder
for me than maybe other blind people, but I don't like to get into that 
any

more since I used to be ridiculed a lot for it. I'm not a loony though,
trust me. *Grin*
Regards,
Damien.



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Ken the Crazy
I play Mortal Kombat sometimes.  It's all mono though, so I don't know where 
I am in relation to my opponent.  If it had stereo sound and I could figure 
out a way to know which player I was, then I would probably get in trouble 
with my wife for playing it too frequently.

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, a 
Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up weapons, 
just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of characters, good 
amount of moves per character and a solid combo system. No audio cues 
during fights, so basically a mainstream game, with talking menus. Would 
people play that? Again, if so, why, and if not, why not?


At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote:

hmmm
If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and 
such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, 
but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it.

I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible.
Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads 
so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota 
g3d port in 3d mode.
I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to 
walk round we would be ok.

I am actually not sure how to answer the question.
If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be 
accessible.
Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure 
what would have to be done if not allready.

THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must.
There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to 
listen.
And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d 
directions these days.
HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only 
the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like  vb6 and autoit to 
the new systems which are not fully active yet.

From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much.
If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though.
I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality 
is I don't have the space for a stick.
The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving 
away from that.

At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a 
discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting 
game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated 
options, would people play it?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread dark
I'm afraid ken, at least in my case, the simple reason is that I don't have 
a packmate or braille display.


I'd love to play nethack if I could, but don't have the cash for the 
display.


I'm not sure how much this applies to other people, but certainly, the fact 
that something is free, or that it has been adapted wouldn't put me off.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I understand where you're coming from.  I put together a game pack form the 
Pac Mate a couple years ago that had Scrabble, Chess, Minesweeper, Nethack 
and a bunch of other stuff.  It took hours to make each game work.  I 
suppose my mistake was to say that the games were visual.  Well, they were 
visual, but with a Pac Mate you could play them just fine, because I had 
adapted them to work with Braille displays.  I got maybe three comments. 
Part of the deal I know is that that if you give something for free, it is 
lowly esteemed--such is it everywhere.  Put a hefty price tag on it and 
suddenly there's interest.
I also remember doing a recording for Wii Sports and using the Wii in 
general and the little feedback I got about that.  Believe me, I quite 
understand.
Also, when I put out Wrecking Ball there were few comments because the 
main input device is the mouse.  Also, I think Che had a hard time 
convincing people that the mouse would work.
Personally, I haven't listened to the Rock Band samples for a couple 
reasons.  First, my Wii broke and I haven't been able as yet to afford to 
get another, and then there's spending more to get Rock Band, so all that 
would happen if I did is that I'd get sore salivary glands from drooling 
in envy.  Also, I can only perceive music on my best days now--it sounds 
horrible most of the time.  As for the street fighter game, again I would 
have to get a console to play it on.

Ken Downey
President
DreamTechInteractive!
And,
Blind Comfort!
The pleasant way to experience massage!
It's the Caring
without the Staring!

- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street 
fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we 
ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, 
people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are 
the ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for 
that is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not 
audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if 
it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to 
download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of 
messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with 
console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has 
been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his 
emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my 
question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in something 
other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? don't you 
guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is to find 
about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This 
community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of 
people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio 
games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to 
find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing 
to download the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what 
these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get 
like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think 
you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even 
take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't 
know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. 
What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any 
curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio 
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in 
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember 
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally 
thought that people finally had some interest in what

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Charles Rivard
About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume 
up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along 
with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other 
musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play 
rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored 
games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it 
when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no 
difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you 
guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all 
I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that 
outlook on life.




- Original Message - 
From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person 
can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am 
willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy 
the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't 
play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in 
wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing 
yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers 
can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.





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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Charles Rivard
I usually comment on the games that I have an interest in.  As to mainstream 
gaming, a lot of them must be used on a gaming console, which I don't have 
the money to buy, and, if I could afford one, would the expense be justified 
if a very few games are those I would be interested in playing?  Then, there 
are games in which you must memorize so much because there aren't enough 
audio cues that I would be robotically performing remembered sequences 
rather than reacting to difficulties that would make the game fun.


I'm not at all interested in a Grand Theft Auto game, or in a street 
fighting game, or in a lot of what is being produced.  A good baseball game 
in which I perform the action rather than manage the team, a good bowling 
game in which I am the bowler, that I can tell which pins remain after each 
bowled ball, that will give the scores, that can be played by one or more 
players as individuals or teams, that requires skill rather than pure luck 
to succeed, I would be interested in.  I don't want to have to rely on any 
sighted assistance of any kind to play my games.  I don't want to spend 
hours memorizing menus and submenus before even getting to the desired 
result.  I want to just go through a user's guide, have that guide available 
as I work though the game, and get to actually playing and enjoying the game 
in under half an hour after getting the game.  If you know of several such 
games that can be played on one gaming console, let me know, and I'll 
consider it.  Until that time, I'll stay with games designed to be played 
without eyesight.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm 
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for 
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones 
to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? 
simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. 
I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most 
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it 
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the 
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the 
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this 
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list 
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must 
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of 
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of 
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. 
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call 
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files 
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? 
Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. 
however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these 
files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then 
you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not 
planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to 
care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you 
guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded 
mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking 
things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little 
Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some 
interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some 
really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that 
seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely 
nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds 
and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, 
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. 
Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar 
went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread shaun everiss

hmmm
If a mainstream did that I would probably try it at least.
Most audio games have cues for sertain events though with the g3d 
stuff with the usa mota thing you actually have to view things to see 
what it is and if you know it well it doesn't shift so.

At 04:16 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:

I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever 
side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and 
made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no 
additional audio except naration in the menus and character 
selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Bryan Peterson
I agree. Now if it was Uilleann Pipe Hero I'd bite since those that's an 
instrument that's fascinated me for years. But those things are fearfully 
expensive from what I've noticed.

We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message - 
From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the 
volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play 
along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other 
musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play 
rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored 
games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it 
when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no 
difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you 
guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. 
all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that 
outlook on life.




- Original Message - 
From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person 
can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am 
willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy 
the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you 
can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the 
point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up 
embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your 
sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.





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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Charles Rivard

I would not, due to a lack of interest in that kind of game.

---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game, a 
Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up weapons, 
just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of characters, good 
amount of moves per character and a solid combo system. No audio cues 
during fights, so basically a mainstream game, with talking menus. Would 
people play that? Again, if so, why, and if not, why not?


At 11:02 PM 07/02/2011, you wrote:

hmmm
If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and 
such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are today, 
but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it.

I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible.
Right now with the fact we are behind it would have to be simplified loads 
so the blind in general could play it though I have not seen the new mota 
g3d port in 3d mode.
I guess as long as we had target things, etc or whatever if we needed to 
walk round we would be ok.

I am actually not sure how to answer the question.
If the char had an inventory that and the menus would have to be 
accessible.
Item pickups and their uses I guess, cues for bits and pieces not sure 
what would have to be done if not allready.

THere would have to be a pause feature, that would have to be a must.
There would have to be a way to turn down the music as we would have to 
listen.
And sounds well no mono sounds to be positioned, since its all 3d 
directions these days.
HOwever right now we are at the crossroads from the simple games that only 
the poor blind can play with crappy bad software like  vb6 and autoit to 
the new systems which are not fully active yet.

From a user point I'd be happy to buy it if it didn't cost to much.
If it was for the pc it would have to have keyboard control though.
I know everyone with a joystick will jump down my throat but the reality 
is I don't have the space for a stick.
The blind have traditionally used the keyboard and only now are moving 
away from that.

At 02:17 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
I want to put out a question to everyone here... and see how much of a 
discussion I can spark. If someone were to make a fully-fledged fighting 
game, exactly like Street fighter, no audio changes except for narated 
options, would people play it?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou
That, I will agree with. I only play it when I have friends around... 
it has no single-player appeal for me.


At 08:56 AM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do 
it for real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, 
crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD 
or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new 
one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it 
when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just 
because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling 
me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. 
you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and 
to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even 
bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it 
plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it 
quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow 
think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's 
video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're 
musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't 
always have that outlook on life.




- Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton 
dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind 
person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, 
then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would 
even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play 
that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of 
sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just 
to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you 
can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion 
that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.




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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou
True enough. The reason I'm asking is whether narated menu options 
would change the mind of those who wanted to play fighters, but 
didn't want to spend time learning menus and such. And it would be 
something good for people who enjoyed games with strategy to them, as 
well as needing good reflexes and timing is all.



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Frost
On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 01:12:47PM -0500, Yohandy wrote:
 I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
 samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some 
 street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that 
 when we ask for feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to 
 create, people simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 
 people are the ones to always respond?

I for one, wouldn't respond because of the following:

1: I don't have the game.

2: I am not interested in the particular game.

3: Someone else has already talked about it before me.

4: I simply have nothing to add.

5: I might be interested in hurrying up and getting past the other 2000 
friggin messages posted to the list today, so I can accomplish something 
else today, besides answering posts from this mailing list.

HTH,

Michael

--
Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org
  Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Frost
On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 02:12:53PM -0500, Yohandy wrote:
 Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when
 you actually aren't even willing to try the game out?

Hey, sometimes I just don't like being friggin reminded of what 
I lost, okay?  Unless the game has been written to take my handicap into 
account, why should I take the game developer into account with my 
money?  Sometimes fair is fair, and I refuse to go along behind the 
sighted community, sweeping up their messes with my broom.  Not unless I 
absolutely have to.  It's not my job, cleaning up after other people's 
thoughtless actions.

Michael

--
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  Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti


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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Yohandy
I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. 
people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I 
wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about 
programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was 
programmed, a lot of people would buy it.



- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of 
the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a 
full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional 
audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would 
you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou
Hilarious, amigo. lol. I know squat about programming... and a game 
like that would really, really definitely take years to write. 
Especially with one or two people.


At 04:25 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could 
program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games 
out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you 
know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. 
I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it.



- Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I agree... we just aren't a big enough market.

But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever 
side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and 
made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with 
no additional audio except naration in the menus and character 
selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not?



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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Yohandy
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real 
life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll 
be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much 
more fun that way




- Original Message - 
From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the 
volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play 
along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other 
musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play 
rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored 
games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it 
when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no 
difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you 
guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. 
all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that 
outlook on life.




- Original Message - 
From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person 
can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am 
willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy 
the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you 
can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the 
point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up 
embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your 
sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.





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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou
Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with 
Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to 
bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can 
improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something 
completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you 
charged for crime.


At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in 
real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities 
since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, 
use a real tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do 
it for real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, 
crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD 
or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a 
new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it 
when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just 
because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people 
telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother 
purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing 
rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I 
won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've 
answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. 
Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys 
somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? 
*sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because 
they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope 
you don't always have that outlook on life.




- Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton 
dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind 
person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, 
then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would 
even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play 
that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of 
sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time 
just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because 
you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my 
opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.




---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
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gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.



---
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---
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Yohandy
Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap between 
a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real instruments is more 
fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? There are plenty of 
drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the time. in fact, most 
people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert without even trying are 
real musicians. There are also people that aren't musicians at all that come 
over and play rock band, and when they started they had no idea what a 
harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and they were extremely 
terrible at the game. now some of them can point out harmonies when they 
hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's definitely having 
some positive effects on people and calling it merely a game is a bit 
unfair.




- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with 
Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out 
my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without 
being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. 
Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime.


At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real 
life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since 
that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real 
tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - From: Charles Rivard 
woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the 
volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and 
play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with 
other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play 
rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored 
games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it 
when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no 
difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you 
guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. 
all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that 
outlook on life.




- Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton 
dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind 
person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I 
am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and 
buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you 
can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the 
point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up 
embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your 
sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.




---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
list,

please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.



---
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Clement Chou
Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling 
isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being 
positive. But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general 
sentiment is, playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock 
band, and while I like both, I have to agree with him. I prefer my 
trusty LTD electric guitar.


At 05:03 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap 
between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real 
instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the 
game? There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock 
Band all the time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher 
tier songs on expert without even trying are real musicians. There 
are also people that aren't musicians at all that come over and play 
rock band, and when they started they had no idea what a harmony 
was, their rhythm was completely off, and they were extremely 
terrible at the game. now some of them can point out harmonies when 
they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's 
definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it 
merely a game is a bit unfair.




- Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with 
Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to 
bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can 
improvize without being penalized, even... action games are 
something completely different. Playing music in real life won't 
get you charged for crime.


At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people 
in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real 
fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank 
commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - From: Charles Rivard 
woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can 
do it for real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my 
amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put 
in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on 
learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it 
when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just 
because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people 
telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother 
purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm 
playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm 
blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes 
absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video 
games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's 
called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a 
totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they 
don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say 
to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life.




- Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton 
dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a 
blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted 
players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, 
I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, 
just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you 
need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting 
investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing 
yourself with it because you can't play properly like your 
sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi Yohandy,
The games you are siting here iare unrealistic. Charles alludeto Guitar Hero
do to the factthat you can actually do better in real  life if you are a
musician. (Sorry Ihave to agree with that statement as I am a musician
myself, to a degree).

Best Regards,
Hayden


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:38 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real 
life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll

be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much 
more fun that way



- Original Message - 
From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
 real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the 
 volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play

 along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other 
 musicians than use something artificial.

 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts!
 - Original Message - 
 From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
 actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
 person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play 
 rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored 
 games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it 
 when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
 because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no 
 difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you 
 guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
 that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
 someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. 
 all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that 
 outlook on life.



 - Original Message - 
 From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hi Liam,
 I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person

 can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am 
 willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy

 the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you 
 can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the 
 point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up 
 embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your 
 sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.
 Regards,
 Damien.




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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Yohandy
I definitely see your point. I play piano remember? There's definitely a 
difference between pro mode, and playing a real piano. However what I got 
out of Charles's email was basically that there was no point in playing a 
game when you can actually play a real instrument, and I disagree with his 
way of thinking. Playing a real instrument is extremely fun, but playing 
Rock Band is also fun and rewarding and those that play real instruments 
shouldn't just disregard the game as a useless gimmick. There's obviously 
great potential in the series. Consider for a moment all the people that 
have never played a musical instrument, and that are now playing songs on 
pro expert guitar and uploading them to youtube, and you'll start to realize 
what Harmonix has created here is just incredible. Harmonix is already 
planning to add composition and improvisation to Rock Band 4, and I'm 
telling ya, the game can't come fast enough for me!



- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling 
isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being positive. 
But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general sentiment is, 
playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock band, and while I 
like both, I have to agree with him. I prefer my trusty LTD electric 
guitar.


At 05:03 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap 
between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real 
instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? 
There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the 
time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert 
without even trying are real musicians. There are also people that aren't 
musicians at all that come over and play rock band, and when they started 
they had no idea what a harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and 
they were extremely terrible at the game. now some of them can point out 
harmonies when they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's 
definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it merely a 
game is a bit unfair.




- Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with 
Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust 
out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize 
without being penalized, even... action games are something completely 
different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime.


At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in 
real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities 
since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a 
real tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - From: Charles Rivard 
woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it 
for real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank 
the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, 
and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam 
with other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when 
you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a 
sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you 
can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta 
see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those 
asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering 
that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it 
makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video 
games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's 
called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally 
muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play 
rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I 
really hope you don't always have

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-08 Thread Johnny Tai
Must say I too agree here- it's why I tend to dislike realistic RP-related 
games/muds- why RP real life when I'm living it every day? If I am going to 
RP, I want to RP something I can't do in RL- such as RPing a psychotic 
killer?! lol
And yes, killing someone in Rl may be more fun than playing mortal kombat- 
but you'll miss out on the part where you kill the same person over and over 
again a thousand times!


- Original Message - 
From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with 
Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out 
my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without 
being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. 
Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime.


At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real 
life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since 
that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real 
tank! much more fun that way




- Original Message - From: Charles Rivard 
woofer...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask:  Why pretend when you can do it for 
real?  I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the 
volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and 
play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with 
other musicians than use something artificial.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play 
rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored 
games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it 
when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly 
because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no 
difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you 
guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means 
that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. 
someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. 
all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that 
outlook on life.




- Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton 
dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind 
person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I 
am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and 
buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you 
can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the 
point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up 
embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your 
sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.




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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Liam Erven
It's simple. Some people believe it or not have no interest in video games.
The thought is, if it isn't accessible, why bother?  That has been displayed
several times on this list, and it's a poor way to look at life.  But some
people insist on it.  Which is rather sad in my opinion.
 

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.

absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





---
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Damien Pendleton

Hi Yohandy,
The answer to your query, especially from my point of view.
Are you totally blind? If so, I'd love to know how you can play mainstream 
games without any sighted help. If not, then that's why. You are partially 
or fully sighted and can see the games you are playing. I spent five years 
of my childhood just pressing controllers on a Playstation because I simply 
didn't know where to go, what to do, and just enjoyed hearing the sounds 
despite the fact that I lost all the time.

But what is the point of playing a game if you can't play properly?
Once I figured that there were games out there for us, they took priority 
and precedence in my life, simply because I felt like I could get somewhere 
with it, and that I wasn't fighting, excuse the pun, just to win. Winning in 
accessible games is to do with your skill level, not your level of sight 
which is the case with videogames.

Just my opinion.
Regards,
Damien.




- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm 
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for 
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones 
to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? 
simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. 
I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most 
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it 
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the 
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the 
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this 
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list 
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must 
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of 
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of 
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. 
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call 
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files 
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to offer? 
Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. 
however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these 
files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then 
you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not 
planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to 
care what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you 
guys just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded 
mentality about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking 
things too far, consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little 
Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some 
interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some 
really good questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that 
seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely 
nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome sounds 
and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least, 
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. 
Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar 
went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a 
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know 
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas 
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious 
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it 
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my 
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.






---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Damien Pendleton

Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can 
play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to 
give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it 
was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because 
you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments 
and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you 
can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just 
prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.


- Original Message - 
From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


It's simple. Some people believe it or not have no interest in video 
games.
The thought is, if it isn't accessible, why bother?  That has been 
displayed

several times on this list, and it's a poor way to look at life.  But some
people insist on it.  Which is rather sad in my opinion.


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply

either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any

other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is

everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream

games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a 
gamer

when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a 
rock

band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard 
drives

and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting 
anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or 
have

any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally 
thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the 
game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really 
good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's 
right.


absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had 
awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at 
least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. 
Now

let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





---
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread dark
Actually yohandi, I've been playing mainstream games for years, far longer 
than I have accessible ones.


However, sinse I access these through a combination of senses including my 
remaining vision, and sinse I stil play games like Turrican and rocks n 
diamonds which are not accessible to totally blind people, I deliberately do 
not discuss such things on this list unless I'm making a comment with 
respect to audio games.


Also, you should be aware that the last console I bought was a gamecube 
mostly for the gameboy advanced player compatibility. There just aren't 
enough games available on say ps3 which I would find accessible to make it 
worth paying the cash for a console.


In fact the only console I've been most interested in recently is the Wii, 
and that mostly for wii virtual consoles games like Mega man 9 and 10, 
however sinse I have not yet found a workable way by which I, living 
completely alone as I do without sited assistance could handle the wii 
Menues I don't have one.


Also I will say, a game like Mortal kombat doesn't hold interest for me if 
only the arcade mode is accessible, I'd personally just miss the story mode 
(one reason I don't have any mk games later than deadly alliance).


Lastly, there is the visual issue. The amount of games I could play rapidly 
dropped at the release of the ps1, simply because that was when for instance 
platformers got 3D, and even when such games have good enough contrast for 
my vision to handle, I cannot cope with the spacial relations,   
accepting 3d 1 on 1 beat em ups like soul calibur.


For rockband style games like guitar hero, rockband etc, I simply cannot see 
the on screen symbols as they are too small, (the only game of that sort 
I've had any success with was vib ribbon on the playstation 1).


While it would probably be possible for me to play these through trial, 
error and sound with huge amounts of patience the way you do,  why 
should I do that when i can sit down to something more complex and to me, 
far more interesting like a new level pack of Turrican levels, or even 
something in audio like Entombed.


While there are some mainstream games I really regret not being able to 
play, particularly the big rpgs, to be absolutely frank the music based ones 
like rockband aren't really among them, - afterall, I spend 
considderable amounts of time doing very real! performing and music based 
stuff anyway through my fairly serious interest in singing and light opera 
(which can be far more challenging to learn and perform, and yet more 
rewarding than any game).


Hope this explains my position on the subject, and why I personally don't 
take any interest in topics about mainstream games on this list.


Beware the grue!

Dark. 



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please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Shiny protector

Hi Yahandy,
Not much of a music fan myself, but I agree with you. I mean, the only 
reason I don't buy street fighter is because I can't afford a xbox360 or a 
ps3. I mean, sometimes, I go to my friends house and play some of the 
Spiderman games. I mean, people saying the sort of rubbish like, it can't be 
plaied by people, this and that. Sited games can be plaied by blind people. 
Its just that they don't have the slightist cunning. I mean, the sounds are 
great and more! But I do wish to buy those games.
- Original Message - 
From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person 
can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am 
willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy 
the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't 
play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in 
wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing 
yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers 
can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.


- Original Message - 
From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


It's simple. Some people believe it or not have no interest in video 
games.
The thought is, if it isn't accessible, why bother?  That has been 
displayed
several times on this list, and it's a poor way to look at life.  But 
some

people insist on it.  Which is rather sad in my opinion.


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply

either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what 
must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any

other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is

everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's 
so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a 
gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up 
to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a 
rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get 
any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard 
drives

and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting 
anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or 
have

any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally 
thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the 
game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really 
good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's 
right.


absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had 
awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Karl Belanger
Hi,
I suspect most people do not have interest in mainstream games for two
reasons. First, they require consoles which can run from $200 up to $400
just for the console, never mind the $50 or more price tag for many of the
games. Combine that with the relatively small percentage of games that are
playable on these systems, and the inaccessibility of much of the content,
and that only compounds the issue. Also, many people do not have the time,
patience, or sighted help to learn the menu systems for many of the games.
Even for me, I usually get someone sighted to help me learn the menu layout
and do initial option configuration to my liking. For people who live alone
or otherwise can not get anyone to help, this may be a showstopper for them.

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm 
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for 
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply 
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to 
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply 
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've 
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most 
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it 
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the 
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the 
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this 
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list 
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must 
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any 
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of 
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is 
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of 
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream

games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so 
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer 
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to 
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock 
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any 
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives 
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a 
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything 
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have

any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio 
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in 
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember 
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought

that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game 
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good 
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.

absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome 
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,

that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now 
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went 
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a 
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know 
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas 
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious 
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it 
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my 
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





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If you have any questions or concerns 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Yohandy
Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you 
actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted 
person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock 
band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. 
well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm 
blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've 
answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it 
quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that 
just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and 
a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play 
rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I 
really hope you don't always have that outlook on life.




- Original Message - 
From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person 
can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am 
willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy 
the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't 
play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in 
wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing 
yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers 
can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.





---
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Yohandy
Street Fighter exists on the PC. even if it didn't, we gotta make some 
sacrifices sometimes. nowadays most games come out for the consoles, not PC.


From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yahandy,
Not much of a music fan myself, but I agree with you. I mean, the only 
reason I don't buy street fighter is because I can't afford a xbox360 or a 
ps3. I mean, sometimes, I go to my friends house and play some of the 
Spiderman games. I mean, people saying the sort of rubbish like, it can't 
be plaied by people, this and that. Sited games can be plaied by blind 
people. Its just that they don't have the slightist cunning. I mean, the 
sounds are great and more! But I do wish to buy those games.
- Original Message - 
From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person 
can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am 
willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy 
the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't 
play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in 
wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing 
yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers 
can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.


- Original Message - 
From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


It's simple. Some people believe it or not have no interest in video 
games.
The thought is, if it isn't accessible, why bother?  That has been 
displayed
several times on this list, and it's a poor way to look at life.  But 
some

people insist on it.  Which is rather sad in my opinion.


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] 
On

Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply

either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? 
simply

that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what 
must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any

other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is

everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's 
so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a 
gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up 
to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a 
rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get 
any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard 
drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of 
a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting 
anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or 
have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your 
audio

games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread dark
Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband and 
guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I am thus 
well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen.


If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc 
streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to 
shell out for a console.


Beware the grue!

Dark. 



---
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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread shaun everiss

yohandy, its not like we ignore you.
I don't always get to comment on things.
My life is quite bussy.
Actually its not to much but I am trying hard to get away from the 
computer when I can.
with my music, books, training and other things its not good to just 
stay at the keyboard and slack which is what I have been doing.

To say your stuff is just left to rot is not exactly right.
While I havn't always managed  to listen to stuff immediately I have been.
In fact I may recomend my family get the rockband guitar hero maybe 
the street fighter games for birthday things so I can fiddle rounf with them.

I don't comment as much as I should but I indevour to do so whenever I can.
Also my timezone is all the other side of the world.
You are probably asleep for some of it or whatever.
Point is often I am behind on messages.
Yours is in the second batch of email I checked today so its not but 
when I first get up or check mail I am behind by at least 6-12 hours of email.
I may respond to several messages about a closed topic before reading 
the message in my list about the closed topic for instance.
Or I may respond to a message that has been answered a thousand times 
earlier with a thousand of my own responces.
Often I don't even respond to the first batch of mail in case I run 
into a thing where I have not needed to respond to something and actually have.
Then there are people that don't check their email almost every 
minute of every day.

Its not like we are dissing you in fact I am proud of the mainstream gamer.
I don't even have time for the audio games in fact i am spending to 
much time playing them right now.


At 07:12 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:

Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting 
extremely frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? 
ok here goes. I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up 
some rock band samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been 
putting up some street fighter IV samples and various other 
samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback or comments on 
these samples we work hard to create, people simply either ignore 
us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always 
respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply 
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. 
I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the 
most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to 
download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of 
messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do 
with console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure 
Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been 
leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't 
mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must we do to 
get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any 
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of 
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video 
games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? This 
community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount 
of people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, 
audio games, and more audio games. there's so much more out there 
for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer when you 
aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to 
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put 
up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however 
I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these 
files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, 
then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, 
but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? 
no one seems to care what we have to say, or have any curiosity 
about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio games 
and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in 
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: 
remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? 
I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we 
had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good 
questions, and over all had a really good time. but once that 
seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right. absolutely 
nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome 
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. 
at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the 
moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after 
listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy 
of Street Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game 
out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, 
but it's just basically me writing down my ideas as they 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Yohandy
and that right there is the problem. why do you guys keep coming back to 
sight? I'm 100% blind. Most video games need sight, but there are also many 
that don't. so why do you guys keep insisting that all video games require 
some degree of vision to play? that's the big question I would like an 
answer to. is it just cause someone tells you that video games are strictly 
for sighted people, and therefore they're right no matter what we say or do 
to prove you wrong? how can you sit there watching someone play games, and 
not even make an attempt to try it for yourself? is it the fear of being 
ridiculed perhaps? I'm really trying hard to understand this guys, but I 
just can't fathom it.




- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband and 
guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I am 
thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen.


If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc 
streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to 
shell out for a console.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
list,
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread shaun everiss

I aggree liam.
Some have a life and don't comment as often though.
I envy those that can play mainstream games.
They are not accessible and therefore not really playable.
Though to be truthfull I don't have the confadance  others that do 
this would have.

I have not a console but anyone that can do those really rocks.
I don't have the skill to handle that stuff yet though this is 
probably one of the goals I want to set.

though its not all about access.
Not everyone is cut out to play mainstreams.
Lets face it, we are blind.
Mainstream is not accessable.
Therefore for it to be you need the skill to just role and a few of 
us me included are not right there right now some will never be.

At 07:22 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:

It's simple. Some people believe it or not have no interest in video games.
The thought is, if it isn't accessible, why bother?  That has been displayed
several times on this list, and it's a poor way to look at life.  But some
people insist on it.  Which is rather sad in my opinion.


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.

absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





---
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send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Philip Bennefall

Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If 
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted 
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu 
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in it. 
I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger just 
because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of what my 
friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much success, but 
that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the 
manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone 
sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 
for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to 
buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a 
few times after countless attempts and assistance. That is a sacrifice that 
I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.
absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





---
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread shaun everiss

aggreed.
I also don't have the space.
lets see
2 headsets, boxes of wires, software, cds hard drives of which there are 2.
tv, pc, you get the idea.
I don't even have space for my joystick.
The desks and shelving units are full.
I actually have no space over what I have right now.
At 08:08 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:

Hi,
I suspect most people do not have interest in mainstream games for two
reasons. First, they require consoles which can run from $200 up to $400
just for the console, never mind the $50 or more price tag for many of the
games. Combine that with the relatively small percentage of games that are
playable on these systems, and the inaccessibility of much of the content,
and that only compounds the issue. Also, many people do not have the time,
patience, or sighted help to learn the menu systems for many of the games.
Even for me, I usually get someone sighted to help me learn the menu layout
and do initial option configuration to my liking. For people who live alone
or otherwise can not get anyone to help, this may be a showstopper for them.

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream

games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have

any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought

that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.

absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,

that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





---
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread shaun everiss

well cost is an issue.
I don't have a job, I have games but they are gotten for me once a year or so.
Lately real things over games have to take their spot like the new 
computer, software upgrades, etc.

Eventually I may get another game.
I'd like to run mainstreams but time cash and the fact I am trying to 
avoid being a computer junkie and all that.

At 08:12 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when 
you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a 
sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you 
can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta 
see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those 
asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother 
answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of 
times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious 
that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just 
cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive 
and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned 
they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say 
to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life.




- Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton 
dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Liam,
I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind 
person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, 
then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even 
go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that 
game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, 
then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to 
completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't 
play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice.

Regards,
Damien.




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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Shiny protector

Hi Philip,
Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 
beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. 
That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean, 
my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, 
without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart 
from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and 
that sort of thing.


BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please 
email me off list at the following address.

muhamme...@googlemail.com
Thankyou!
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If 
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted 
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu 
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in 
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger 
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of 
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much 
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I 
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any 
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a 
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But 
I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and 
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. 
That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply

either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any

other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is

everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream

games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a 
gamer

when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a 
rock

band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard 
drives

and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting 
anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or 
have

any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally 
thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the 
game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really 
good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's 
right.
absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Philip Bennefall

Hello there,

I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was 
regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would 
have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That is 
poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done it in 
the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, 
especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the 
game I was trying at the time.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com

To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hi Philip,
Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10
beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint.
That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean,
my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class,
without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart
from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and
that sort of thing.

BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please
email me off list at the following address.
muhamme...@googlemail.com
Thankyou!
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But
I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance.
That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or
any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why
is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about
mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a
gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a
rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard
drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread shaun everiss
ofcause the other thing people have forgotten is the fact that us 
blinks can't afford the real expensive stuff.

Lets see 1400 for a good laptop, 1300 for software upgrades.
now 200 for some good sterio headsets.
another 40 for a crappy but servicable headset mic.
oh and 50 bucks for some ok speakers with 2.1.
maybe 30 for a standard mouse for playing games.
And hmm another 30 for a keyboard so I don't smash my keyboard.
Right thats it.
As you can see thats probably the basics.
There is not much more over budjet I can go.
This doesn't include the extra 1500 spent on the main upgrades of the 
systems here, the 600 odd for the recorder I have, and the 30 bucks 
for extra cabling.

and the 200 extra for the router.
staggered ofcause.
Now, realise its taken me about 5 years to get all these.
Now console gaming?
Um not possable.
5 years to just the basics maybe a couple 10 buck mics and headphone 
sets for general purpose away from the system use.

Oh maybe 120 for a new board because I made it die.
and now after getting the pcs all updated to various new and newish 
speeds the router will be on its way out after my screenreader upgrade.

Here is another 200 for that.
Oh and while you are on that lets make my cd player die, and make the 
moniter decide it needs replacement.

Another 300.
Then look at the tv, its dieing it needs repolacing.
Then the printer its on the fritz again.
After all that taking another 2 years, it is probably going to be 
time to upgrade one of the systems.
Lets see my laptop may die at that point or the second desktop unit 
or the main external drive I use every day.

And so it goes on.
And while thats not every day and n not for the fact that win7 was 
given to us as part of my brother's uni studdies it would have cost a lot more.

There is no cash for anything else.
At the beginning of each year I keep saying, if nothing happens this 
year, I will buy another audio game or 2.

lets see 50+30 is 80 doubled that 140.
Ok, maybe not one of them maybe.
ANd thats previding I don't loose the router entirely which its been 
threatening to do for a while.

I don't mean to be flaming or anything but its not that easy.
I'd like nothing at all but to just sit down all day on my fat behind 
with a 500 leter bottle of coke, an infinate supply of chips and 
chocolate, beverages and stuff.
Not give a fag about what is happening or when I die or get fat or 
life in general and play games.
I could but well I don't even have the cash to afford much more than 
1-2 basic items a year.

And I am still at home.
Now when I leave, its probably going to be really bad.
No broadband for instance.
no new systems etc.
nothing much in fact.
Be lucky you can buy mainstreams at all.
You obviously have the cash to squonder and burn.
You can obviously afford to sit down with an infinate supply of drink 
and food in your game world.
I think a lot of us me included don't have this privilage though we 
would like to.

At 08:21 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like 
rockband and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have 
them, and I am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen.


If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc 
streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require 
me to shell out for a console.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Damien Pendleton

Hi Yohandy,
I think it's all to do with skill. I am totally aware that videogames have 
sound to them. But it still doesn't help me in winning or knowing exactly 
how to play the game. The only reason I didn't get frustrated playing such 
games as a kid is that I was simply content in listening to the sounds. If I 
played them now, I wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Regards,
Damien.




- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


and that right there is the problem. why do you guys keep coming back to 
sight? I'm 100% blind. Most video games need sight, but there are also 
many that don't. so why do you guys keep insisting that all video games 
require some degree of vision to play? that's the big question I would 
like an answer to. is it just cause someone tells you that video games are 
strictly for sighted people, and therefore they're right no matter what we 
say or do to prove you wrong? how can you sit there watching someone play 
games, and not even make an attempt to try it for yourself? is it the fear 
of being ridiculed perhaps? I'm really trying hard to understand this 
guys, but I just can't fathom it.




- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like rockband 
and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends have them, and I 
am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen.


If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc 
streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require me to 
shell out for a console.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Yohandy
SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were 
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that? 
you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things 
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that 
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.



From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If 
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted 
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu 
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in 
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger 
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of 
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much 
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I 
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any 
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a 
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But 
I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and 
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance. 
That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply

either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any

other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is

everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream

games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a 
gamer

when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a 
rock

band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard 
drives

and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting 
anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or 
have

any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally 
thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the 
game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really 
good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's 
right.
absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had 
awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at 
least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. 
Now

let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread shaun everiss

Ok well its not that fear of ridicule.
Its the fact that you can't see what you are doing.
Ie if you are on the computer.
if I know aprox what I am doing I can do it whout sight.
But I can't check.
and what will happen and I don't do something wrong.
Lets say format c instead fof format e.
I won't get any feadback.
Nothing its still a valid command. it works.
Um no feadback does mean you need to fly on the seat of your pants.
Ok, sure with sighted help you could remember the menu structures, 
maybe even the game moves for each char or whatever and I guess with 
trial and error, patience and an infinate supply of time which you 
clearly have it would be good.

most of us don't.
I have found myself killing games because I can't get things to work 
and by no means do I usually just go and not bother.
But if I can't even get that far  not knowing what I need to do then 
its not worth my time.

I would probably be cool if all I did was play mainstreams all day long.
At 08:40 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
and that right there is the problem. why do you guys keep coming 
back to sight? I'm 100% blind. Most video games need sight, but 
there are also many that don't. so why do you guys keep insisting 
that all video games require some degree of vision to play? that's 
the big question I would like an answer to. is it just cause someone 
tells you that video games are strictly for sighted people, and 
therefore they're right no matter what we say or do to prove you 
wrong? how can you sit there watching someone play games, and not 
even make an attempt to try it for yourself? is it the fear of being 
ridiculed perhaps? I'm really trying hard to understand this guys, 
but I just can't fathom it.




- Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Actually Yohandi, I at least am well aware of what games like 
rockband and guitar hero are like, sinse my brother and friends 
have them, and I am thus well aware of what I can or cannot see on the screen.


If I can see about configuring my joystick, I might considder pc 
streetfighter though, that is a good idea sinse it wouldn't require 
me to shell out for a console.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Liam Erven
Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video
games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have to
deal with that.
 

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that?

you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hi Yohandy,

 I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. 
 If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without 
 sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such 
 as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have 
 no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself 
 when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to 
 experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the 
 time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no 
 interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install, 
 run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and 
 also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the 
 game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to 
 buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win a
few times after countless attempts and assistance.
 That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

 Kind regards,

 Philip Bennefall
 - Original Message -
 From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
 frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
 I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples
up.
 you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
 samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for 
 feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
 simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the 
 ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that 
 is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not 
 audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even 
 if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping 
 to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of 
 messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with 
 console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement 
 has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through 
 in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So 
 my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in 
 something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that 
 matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out 
 everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone 
 ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members, 
 and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream 
 games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. 
 there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call 
 yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files 
 Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to 
 offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 
 downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys 
 are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a 
 listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't 
 know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up. 
 What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have 
 any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your 
 audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game 
 accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, 
 consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street 
 Fighter seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some 
 interest in what we had to say and in the game and such. we got some 
 really good questions

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread shaun everiss

I aggree philip.
And on that note i have played lego starwars with my cousin in a team game.
I just shoot everything in site but really  its not really playing.
At 08:43 a.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:

Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this 
list. If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play 
without sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by 
heart such as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite 
frankly have no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller 
punching myself when I was younger just because I liked the sounds 
and wanted to experience a fraction of what my friends were talking 
about all the time. I didn't have much success, but that does not 
mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual 
fore, install, run, and play without requiring any help from someone 
sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 
40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am 
not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and 
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and 
assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.
absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my
self when everyone's resisting 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Damien Pendleton

Yohandy,
This is the thing. They are not really unrealistic. Accessible games fit the 
bill what Philip is talking about completely, hence the reason he, and I for 
that matter, put our entire support in accessible projects by not only 
playing them, but also developing them for other people to play.
Just because you can figure out what are to you the most simple games 
doesn't mean that other people can figure them out, making them extremely 
complicated. You say that giving up isn't the way forward. I agree, hence 
the reason I spent five years with them before I even knew about accessible 
games. I still couldn't get anywhere with them, even with games as simple 
(to the sighted community) as Bloody Roar II and some of the sports games. I 
had over a hundred playstation games - not one of them could I beat or play, 
from a gamer's point of view, to satisfaction.

Regards,
Damien.


- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were 
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like 
that? you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure 
things out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game 
that caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.



From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If 
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted 
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu 
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in 
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger 
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of 
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much 
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I 
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any 
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for 
a console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. 
But I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial 
and error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and 
assistance. That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but 
fruitless.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
simply

either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what 
must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
any

other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
is

everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's 
so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a 
gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up 
to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a 
rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get 
any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard 
drives

and don't even

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread dark
Even when menue options are visible to me, I cannot read the text and thus 
need to use counting etc.



This stil! takes a degree of memorization and work to do, and that's before 
we start on the game, especially considdering that many menues or map 
screens are odd shapes or have options which are context sensative depending 
upon game area.


One game I always wanted to play was castlevania on the gba, but even though 
the graphics were visible to me, I was not able to simply because all in 
game items and weapons were collected at random and stuck on a menue in 
order of collection, with text lables I could not read.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hello there,

I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was 
regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would 
have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That 
is poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done 
it in the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, 
especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the 
game I was trying at the time.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com

To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hi Philip,
Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10
beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint.
That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I 
mean,

my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class,
without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart
from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and
that sort of thing.

BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? 
Please

email me off list at the following address.
muhamme...@googlemail.com
Thankyou!
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for 
a
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. 
But

I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and 
assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what 
must

we

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Philip Bennefall
I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried to 
figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more than 
enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or not. 
Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to play 
games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt to play 
by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory rather 
than skill.


Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream 
games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way 
in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good discussion. 
Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying that you know 
more about anything game related than those who do not play video games for 
one reason or another, and that those poor souls are dreadfully ignorant. 
Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this is the way that your 
message strikes me.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like that?
you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But
I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance.
That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or
any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why
is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about
mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a
gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a
rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Yohandy,

I have a few theories what is going on, and these aren't based so much
on fact but just my experience in dealing with the VI gaming community
in general.

First, is probably simply a lack of interest in the types of games
being presented. I'll take myself for example. I am into mainstream
games, have played several different mainstream games over the years,
but something like Rockband or Street Fighter just simply isn't my
thing. I like adventure games with things like history, treasure
hunting, puzzle solving, etc which is why I'm writing a game like
Mysteries of the Ancients in the first place. Games like Street
Fighter are good games, but I'm not really into that sort of game
personally. Therefore I really don't have much interest in downloading
a podcast on it much less running out and buying a copy for myself.

Second, is accessibility issues. While Street Fighter, Rockband,
Marvel Verses Capcom, etc are playable it doesn't come easy for most
blind players. For example, the menus don't talk so you have to learn
and memorize the menus for those kinds of games. It is opsticals like
this that put anyone totally blind off from venturing into mainstream
gaming. In their mind it is only half accessible. When mainstream
games have talking menus, spoken feedback for this or that, then
they'll be willing to look at it. Without these accessible features
that Tank Commander, Shades of Doom, etc have they are of the opinion
why bother?


Finally, there is the conceptual and skill level gap between
mainstream and accessible audio games. As you know mmainstream games
are written at a skill level, a complexity, far above any audio game
out there. In that sense the average blind gamer, who maybe doesn't
know much about mainstream games, is just totally blown away by the
complexity. It is like overload for him/her since they are absolutely
ignorent about how to begin playing a game like that. Maybe they
simply don't have the skills to do it.

For example, take Mysteries of the Ancients. Right now I'm adding some
extra features to beta 18 such as timed locks which, to my knowledge,
has never been done before in an audio game. Hard to believe that
something that simple has been around for ages in mainstream games,
but isn't even used in audio games. I could point out hundreds of
other examples just as simple, but the fact is most of the audio
gamers out here are clueless when it comes to mainstream games. A game
like Street Fighter has various complex fighting styles that no audio
game has come close to remotely matching, and is just so totally
different from the audio games we have.

Basically, what I'm saying is you and I are advanced gamers. Most
blind people are not. They are rather inexperienced, don't know what
is out there, and maybe don't have the skills to pickup and play
Street Fighter, MVC, Mortal Kombat, or anything remotely accessible
for the Play Station, XBox, Wii, etc. They just aren't advanced enough
to get into it.I'll tell you why I think this way.

For example, take Shades of Doom. That's a game designed for the
blind, by a totally blind game developer, and as games goes it is
pretty simple compared to similar games for the mainstream market. Yet
I have heard countless people say the game is too complicated, it is
too confusing, I can't figure out how to play it, you name it. Now, if
there is a game like that made specifically for the blind and blind
people can't play it how can we expect them to take a step forward and
begin playing mainstream games with less aaccessibility features in
some cases?

Just some thoughts to think about. I'm not saying that these things
are necessarily true, but those are my thoughts. People aren't really
as interested it as you are. I don't know there is a way to increase
interest in it if their skills are lacking, the games aren't that
interesting to a person, or they are just too complex for the average
blind gamer.

Cheers!


On 2/7/11, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hey guys,
 Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
 frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
 sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
 you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
 samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
 feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
 either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
 always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
 that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
 noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
 simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
 immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
 subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
 thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Shiny protector

Well it is not hard.
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hello there,

I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was 
regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would 
have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That 
is poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done 
it in the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, 
especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the 
game I was trying at the time.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com

To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hi Philip,
Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10
beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint.
That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I 
mean,

my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class,
without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart
from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and
that sort of thing.

BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? 
Please

email me off list at the following address.
muhamme...@googlemail.com
Thankyou!
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for 
a
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. 
But

I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and 
assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what 
must

we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or
any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why
is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about
mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's 
so

much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a
gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up 
to

at least listen to what these games

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Shiny protector

Hi Liam,
Personily, I have to speek out my mind. This community has to expand. 
Yahandy doesn't say oh, if anyone's not interested I will flame them for the 
rest of their life! He says he's sick of getting responses like oh, this is 
not accessible, and more. That's his point.
- Original Message - 
From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video
games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have 
to

deal with that.


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like 
that?


you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list.
If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without
sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such
as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have
no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself
when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to
experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the
time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no
interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install,
run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and
also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the
game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to
buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win 
a

few times after countless attempts and assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message -
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes.
I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples

up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the
ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that
is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not
audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even
if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping
to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of
messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with
console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement
has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through
in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So
my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in
something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that
matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out
everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone
ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members,
and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games.
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to
offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5
downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys
are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a
listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't
know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up.
What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread dark
On the site front yohandi,  the problem is the types of mainstream games 
I would myself be interested in playing do! require site.


Rpgs require reading of in game text such as spell or action menues, hp in 
combat etc,  and that's even assuming the dialogue in spoken (which is 
often not the case).


while using sterrio positioning of some sounds it may be possible to play 
certain parts (and probably only parts), of a 3D action game such as unreal 
tournament or halflife, more complex 3D games which have full stories, equip 
modes etc such as Metroid prime would be right out.


As for older games, well 2D platformers would be some of the hardest, yet 
these are some of my favoourite style of games.


Generally, the games which I would most like to play, those with plot and 
exploration are those which are most inaccessible sinse they are those with 
the most complex interface.


This is also why I tend to stick to the sorts of games which have this 
feature that I can! play, whether these are audio, textual or graphical.


Beware the grue!

Dark.


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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Shiny protector
Not a moderator, but Philip and Yahandy has razed some valid points. Philip, 
you are right, his message sounds really harsh. Yahandy, please turn down 
your frustration level please, but you do have a point. Counting isn't a 
problem either. Heck, when I first had a mobile phone, It was quite hard to 
access, but I managed to call certain people without anything like talks or 
Espeek.
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried 
to figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more 
than enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or 
not. Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to 
play games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt 
to play by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory 
rather than skill.


Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream 
games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way 
in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good 
discussion. Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying 
that you know more about anything game related than those who do not play 
video games for one reason or another, and that those poor souls are 
dreadfully ignorant. Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this 
is the way that your message strikes me.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like 
that?

you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for 
a
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. 
But

I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and 
assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what 
must

we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or
any
other

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Bryan Peterson
Well said. I enjoy video games but even I think he's been more than a little 
harsh.

We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message - 
From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video
games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have 
to

deal with that.


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like 
that?


you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list.
If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without
sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such
as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have
no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself
when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to
experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the
time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no
interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install,
run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and
also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the
game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to
buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win 
a

few times after countless attempts and assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message -
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes.
I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples

up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the
ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that
is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not
audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even
if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping
to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of
messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with
console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement
has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through
in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So
my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in
something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that
matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out
everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone
ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members,
and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games.
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to
offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5
downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys
are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a
listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't
know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up.
What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your
audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game
accessibility in general. If you

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Damien,

Yeah, skill has something to do with it but experience and memory is
the key. As plenty of people know by now I absolutely love the Tomb
Raider games. I own all of them from the 1997 first Tomb Raider game
right up to Guardian of Light released in 2010. However, they are
extremely difficult to play if you are blind. You litterally have to
break the levels down to remembering how many steps to a certain lever
or switch, how many steps to a door, remembering which sound indicates
you picked up a rrelic, whatever. It is mind numming memorization. It
is not really playing per say. It is simply trying to play as best as
you can on past experience and by hours of practicing the same thing
over and over again until you get it right. That's what turns me off
on playing mainstream games. I like them but I hate spending hours of
effort into playing one.

Cheers!


On 2/7/11, Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net wrote:
 Hi Yohandy,
 I think it's all to do with skill. I am totally aware that videogames have
 sound to them. But it still doesn't help me in winning or knowing exactly
 how to play the game. The only reason I didn't get frustrated playing such
 games as a kid is that I was simply content in listening to the sounds. If I
 played them now, I wouldn't have a clue where to start.
 Regards,
 Damien.

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Yohandy
It's not whether I accept it or not, it's the whole negativity surrounding 
video games based on nothing but speculation and assumptions that I get 
annoyed about.


- Original Message - 
From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video
games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have 
to

deal with that.


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like 
that?


you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list.
If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without
sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such
as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have
no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself
when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to
experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the
time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no
interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install,
run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and
also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the
game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to
buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win 
a

few times after countless attempts and assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message -
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes.
I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
samples

up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the
ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that
is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not
audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even
if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping
to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of
messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with
console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement
has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through
in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So
my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in
something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that
matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out
everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone
ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members,
and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games.
there's so much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call
yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download the files
Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to
offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5
downloads at most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys
are just shoving these files in your hard drives and don't even take a
listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't
know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything else up.
What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your
audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread dark
Hmmm, yohandi, possibly you are being a litle too hasty in so instantly 
deciding people's opinions are based only on assumptions or second hand 
knolidge.


Certainly, I've trried many main stream games myself, in fact I played 
original street fighter and mortal kombat in the arcades when they first 
came out.


I stil have many friends, and my brother who are gamers, and have both 
watched them play games and played myself.


So, at least in my case, judgement is actually based on experience, and I 
imagine for at least some other people on the list it would be the same.


Beware the grue!

Dark. 



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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Yohandy
when I said unrealistic, I was referring to the fact that no developer is 
ever going to cater to them. so if you're waiting for such a video game to 
come out, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Also my email wasn't 
intended to sound accusatory in any way. I'm just a bit frustrated with the 
community as a whole and most people's unwillingness to even try some of 
these games out simply because it's way easier to assume they can't play 
them. It wasn't personal or anything, and I apologize if it seemed that way 
to you. I'd like to also point out that we don't play games simply based on 
memory alone. yes we memorize menus, moves etc, but the way you put it it 
sounds as if we just button mash and hope for the best. Like any average 
sighted person, these games require practice and skill as well to actually 
complete, and being blind has nothing to do with how well a blind person 
plays the game. A sighted person doesn't just magically know all the combos 
and is automatically good at a particular game, they also need to practice. 
sometimes for months, to get good at a game on a competitive level.






- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried 
to figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more 
than enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or 
not. Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to 
play games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt 
to play by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory 
rather than skill.


Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream 
games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way 
in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good 
discussion. Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying 
that you know more about anything game related than those who do not play 
video games for one reason or another, and that those poor souls are 
dreadfully ignorant. Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this 
is the way that your message strikes me.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like 
that?

you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I
can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for 
a
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. 
But

I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and 
assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Philip Bennefall
Then let me apologise also. I definitely did not mean that blind people 
merely push a series of buttons at random and wait for something to 
magically work, rather what I meant was that the threshold that you as a 
blind gamer must cross in order to get some enjoyment out of the game in 
question is too high for most people including myself. I, for one, am not a 
patient person. I could never sit for hours on end and learn the levels by 
heart, nor could I justify the investment if all I am going to get out of it 
is maybe half or in some cases 75 % of the satisfaction that a sighted 
person might gain from playing the same title. Understand that these figures 
are nothing but guesses, and should be taken as such. What I am trying to 
say is that for me personally, it does not make sense to fork out hundreds 
of dollars if the games are not going to meet the specifications I listed in 
my earlier email. And you are right, there are currently few, if any 
mainstream game development companies who take accessibility into 
consideration. But I would rather fight the issue on that score than attempt 
to play complex games where I lack a lot of information etc that is vital 
for full enjoyment of the product.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


when I said unrealistic, I was referring to the fact that no developer is
ever going to cater to them. so if you're waiting for such a video game to
come out, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Also my email wasn't
intended to sound accusatory in any way. I'm just a bit frustrated with the
community as a whole and most people's unwillingness to even try some of
these games out simply because it's way easier to assume they can't play
them. It wasn't personal or anything, and I apologize if it seemed that way
to you. I'd like to also point out that we don't play games simply based on
memory alone. yes we memorize menus, moves etc, but the way you put it it
sounds as if we just button mash and hope for the best. Like any average
sighted person, these games require practice and skill as well to actually
complete, and being blind has nothing to do with how well a blind person
plays the game. A sighted person doesn't just magically know all the combos
and is automatically good at a particular game, they also need to practice.
sometimes for months, to get good at a game on a competitive level.





- Original Message -
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



I wish you would discuss these things in a less accusing fashion. I tried
to figure the game out for a couple of weeks, perhaps three, which is more
than enough time for me to conclude whether I feel it is worth my time or
not. Second, what is there unrealistic in those specifications? I wish to
play games that I can actually enjoy to their full potential, not attempt
to play by trial and error and learning how to complete each task by memory
rather than skill.

Please do not get me wrong, I am very interested in discussing mainstream
games with you, and I am sure others on this list are as well, but the way
in which you approach the subject is not one that makes for good
discussion. Your message sounds overly harsh, as though you are saying
that you know more about anything game related than those who do not play
video games for one reason or another, and that those poor souls are
dreadfully ignorant. Again I don't mean to sound harsh in my turn but this
is the way that your message strikes me.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message -
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like
that?
you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If
the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Bryan Peterson

Could you maybe stop with the one-liners?
We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message - 
From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com
To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Well it is not hard.
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hello there,

I was not refering to remembering which buttons do what. Mainly it was 
regarding the menu layout with options, different modes etc that I would 
have to memorize option for option in order to select what I wanted. That 
is poor motivation for me when I am to begin with a new game. I have done 
it in the past with mainstream games but gave it up as fairly pointless, 
especially since I could only complete the first one or two levels of the 
game I was trying at the time.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com

To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hi Philip,
Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10
beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint.
That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I 
mean,

my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class,
without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though 
apart

from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and
that sort of thing.

BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? 
Please

email me off list at the following address.
muhamme...@googlemail.com
Thankyou!
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. 
If

the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted
assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu
options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in
it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger
just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of
what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much
success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that 
I

can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any
help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for 
a
console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. 
But

I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and
error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and 
assistance.

That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. 
I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples 
up.

you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? 
simply

that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what 
must

we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or
any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why
is
everyone ignoring these games outright

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Johnny Tai
Heh, it's like a confirmed carnivore like me can't understand why would 
anyone willingly become vegetarian- everytime I run into one I think, 'god, 
what's wrong with you?!' but of course, I don't say anything because I know 
I should know better than feeling the way I do.
When people do not like what you do, it's not a crime- nor is it 'wrong.' 
They're just different.
For example, having no hearing in one ear, I find alot of our supposedly 
accessible games frustrating in the extreme to play- but for the most part, 
I still play them, but I don't expect to be good at them, nor to like them 
very much.



---
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Damien Pendleton

Hi Thomas,
In my experience I know some other blind people, who have been blind since 
birth, who struggle with spacial awareness. I, for example, can learn a 
route somewhere but find it hard to reverse the rules when finding my way 
back. I can't conceptualise it as a map in my head, but rather have to 
construct it as a list of instructions that I have to remember.
If I find that concept hard in real life, goodness knows how hard it will be 
in a game where you don't physically have the landmarks there instead of as 
sounds. Granted, I have some small mental difficulties that make it harder 
for me than maybe other blind people, but I don't like to get into that any 
more since I used to be ridiculed a lot for it. I'm not a loony though, 
trust me. *Grin*

Regards,
Damien.

Regards,
Damien.


- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.



Hi Yohandy,

I have a few theories what is going on, and these aren't based so much
on fact but just my experience in dealing with the VI gaming community
in general.

First, is probably simply a lack of interest in the types of games
being presented. I'll take myself for example. I am into mainstream
games, have played several different mainstream games over the years,
but something like Rockband or Street Fighter just simply isn't my
thing. I like adventure games with things like history, treasure
hunting, puzzle solving, etc which is why I'm writing a game like
Mysteries of the Ancients in the first place. Games like Street
Fighter are good games, but I'm not really into that sort of game
personally. Therefore I really don't have much interest in downloading
a podcast on it much less running out and buying a copy for myself.

Second, is accessibility issues. While Street Fighter, Rockband,
Marvel Verses Capcom, etc are playable it doesn't come easy for most
blind players. For example, the menus don't talk so you have to learn
and memorize the menus for those kinds of games. It is opsticals like
this that put anyone totally blind off from venturing into mainstream
gaming. In their mind it is only half accessible. When mainstream
games have talking menus, spoken feedback for this or that, then
they'll be willing to look at it. Without these accessible features
that Tank Commander, Shades of Doom, etc have they are of the opinion
why bother?


Finally, there is the conceptual and skill level gap between
mainstream and accessible audio games. As you know mmainstream games
are written at a skill level, a complexity, far above any audio game
out there. In that sense the average blind gamer, who maybe doesn't
know much about mainstream games, is just totally blown away by the
complexity. It is like overload for him/her since they are absolutely
ignorent about how to begin playing a game like that. Maybe they
simply don't have the skills to do it.

For example, take Mysteries of the Ancients. Right now I'm adding some
extra features to beta 18 such as timed locks which, to my knowledge,
has never been done before in an audio game. Hard to believe that
something that simple has been around for ages in mainstream games,
but isn't even used in audio games. I could point out hundreds of
other examples just as simple, but the fact is most of the audio
gamers out here are clueless when it comes to mainstream games. A game
like Street Fighter has various complex fighting styles that no audio
game has come close to remotely matching, and is just so totally
different from the audio games we have.

Basically, what I'm saying is you and I are advanced gamers. Most
blind people are not. They are rather inexperienced, don't know what
is out there, and maybe don't have the skills to pickup and play
Street Fighter, MVC, Mortal Kombat, or anything remotely accessible
for the Play Station, XBox, Wii, etc. They just aren't advanced enough
to get into it.I'll tell you why I think this way.

For example, take Shades of Doom. That's a game designed for the
blind, by a totally blind game developer, and as games goes it is
pretty simple compared to similar games for the mainstream market. Yet
I have heard countless people say the game is too complicated, it is
too confusing, I can't figure out how to play it, you name it. Now, if
there is a game like that made specifically for the blind and blind
people can't play it how can we expect them to take a step forward and
begin playing mainstream games with less aaccessibility features in
some cases?

Just some thoughts to think about. I'm not saying that these things
are necessarily true, but those are my thoughts. People aren't really
as interested it as you are. I don't know there is a way to increase
interest in it if their skills are lacking, the games aren't that
interesting to a person, or they are just too complex for the average
blind gamer.

Cheers!


On 2

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Johnny Tai
Lol, gotta love the first SF game- it had what, like 4 sets of sound files 
shared between 12 characters. I'm speaking of SF2- never did play the very 
first one where you can only play what, two characters?
I remember when I played SF2, which was my first ever fighting game- I chose 
to master Chun-li cause she was the only one who sounded different enough 
for me to know what's going on rofl.

Well, Blanka was okay too- but I tend to be the beauty over beast kinda guy.

- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hmmm, yohandi, possibly you are being a litle too hasty in so instantly 
deciding people's opinions are based only on assumptions or second hand 
knolidge.


Certainly, I've trried many main stream games myself, in fact I played 
original street fighter and mortal kombat in the arcades when they first 
came out.


I stil have many friends, and my brother who are gamers, and have both 
watched them play games and played myself.


So, at least in my case, judgement is actually based on experience, and I 
imagine for at least some other people on the list it would be the same.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Orin
I have to agree with Yohandy here. Is the mentality so closedminded that people 
give up just because the menus don't talk? Do you really think that's gonna 
stop me from playing Marvel VS. Capcom next week? Heck no. Do you really think 
I won't play Mortal Kombat because of no speech feedback? Or, is it the combos 
in fighting games and you just don't want to learn them right away at least. My 
solution? Try Rock Band.

Blazblue is also a good fighting game for beginners complete with a playable 
tutorial, however it is harder than most and faster than your average fighting 
game, although Marvel VS. Capcom will be the fastest game out of all three 
games; SF, MK and BB.

No matter though, this email is going to uninterested inboxes. Yohandy said it 
with brilliant execution.

P.S. On the audiogames.net forum a few days ago I saw a post wondering if Call 
of Duty: Black Ops could ever be made accessible. My answer? Probably, if we 
reach out and show the sighted community we can play video games first. 
Especially fighting games. Fighting games don't have as much popularity as 
shooters do because you have to learn them, something of which a blind person 
can do. The way to show the sighted community we're out there is get excellent 
at a fighting game and compete at, say, Evo. If we were there, we'd be on G4 
and basically famous. So everyone, purchase a PS3/360 and show these people 
it's possible.


Orin
orin8...@gmail.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
Skype: orin1112



On Feb 7, 2011, at 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote:

 Hey guys,
   Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely 
 frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm 
 sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
 you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV 
 samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for feedback 
 or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply either 
 ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to always 
 respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply that the 
 games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've noticed that 
 when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most simplistic game in 
 existence, everyone's all jumping to download it immediately and there are 
 threads that span hundreds of messages on the subject. But when we post 
 something having to do with console games, the thread dies in a matter of 
 hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been 
 leaking through in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it 
 outright. So my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested 
 in something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that matter? 
 don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out everything there is 
 to find about video games? why is everyone ignoring these games outright? 
 This community has hundreds of members, and only a very limited amount of 
 people even talk about mainstream games. it's all audio games, audio games, 
 and more audio games. there's so much more out there for you to find guys. 
 how can you call yourself a gamer when you aren't even willing to download 
 the files Clement and I put up to at least listen to what these games have to 
 offer? Whenever I put up a rock band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at 
 most. however I rarely get any feedback. I think you guys are just shoving 
 these files in your hard drives and don't even take a listen. if you do, then 
 you have the curiosity of a robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not 
 planning on putting anything else up. What's the point? no one seems to care 
 what we have to say, or have any curiosity about console gaming. you guys 
 just keep playing your audio games and keep your closed-minded mentality 
 about game accessibility in general. If you think I'm taking things too far, 
 consider this: remember when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter 
 seminar? I finally thought that people finally had some interest in what we 
 had to say and in the game and such. we got some really good questions, and 
 over all had a really good time. but once that seminar ended, what do you 
 think happened? That's right. absolutely nothing. people basically were like 
 oh ok, that game had awesome sounds and music and such. ok back to playing 
 some tank commander. at least, that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a 
 spur of the moment thing. Now let me ask you this. how many of you, after 
 listening to that seminar went over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street 
 Fighter? or even go to a friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. 
 ok rant over. I know this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me 
 writing down my ideas as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for 
 those of us serious about gaming, we need 

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Damien,

Smile. Oh, I never suggested you were loony, stupid, or any of those
things. However, your point of thinking of a route as a list of
instructions rather than a mental map is a great point I was trying to
illistrate to Yohandy. Not all of us have the same skills and/or
abilities which makes playing certain genres of games more difficult
than others.

I, for example, have excellent sspacial orientation. I've been told by
a number of om instructers that I have a very sharp mind when it
comes to remembering routes etc in my head. The reason for that is I
can picture a mental map of the route, remember everything in proper
context, and can use that information to pretty much plot my course. I
can even use that skill for quickly assessing where I am in a strange
place I've never been in before. It is like I have a mental mapping
feature in my head that draws and redraws the route in my head as I
go. Understandably not everyone, such as yourself, is able to do this.

Obviously, this skill is a huge advantage for me in accessible games.
Any game like Sarah, Shades of Doom, Pacman Talks, Monkey Business,
etc that requires figuring things out in a realistic spacial context
is fairly easy for me. I simply form a map in my head of the level, as
best that I can, and then begin moving around in that mental map until
I figure it out. Once I played the game a couple of times I never get
lost again. That gives me a huge advantage.

Coming back to my point though there are games like Tomb Raider with
far less accessibility than Shades of Doom or Sarah. Unlike Shades of
Doom there is a third axis of movement up/down that makes the levels
far more complex to navigate. There are ropes, ladders, staircases
that have to be navigated to reach certain rooms above the one you are
in. You really have to have extremely good spacial orientation to
figure this out if you are blind because you will have to use your
ears and memory to get around the levels. If you reduce it to a simple
list of left, right, up, down, foward, and backward type things it
just won't cut it. You litterally have to keep a memory of the map,
the level's exact layout, in your head at all times.

Cheers!


On 2/7/11, Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net wrote:
 Hi Thomas,
 In my experience I know some other blind people, who have been blind since
 birth, who struggle with spacial awareness. I, for example, can learn a
 route somewhere but find it hard to reverse the rules when finding my way
 back. I can't conceptualise it as a map in my head, but rather have to
 construct it as a list of instructions that I have to remember.
 If I find that concept hard in real life, goodness knows how hard it will be
 in a game where you don't physically have the landmarks there instead of as
 sounds. Granted, I have some small mental difficulties that make it harder
 for me than maybe other blind people, but I don't like to get into that any
 more since I used to be ridiculed a lot for it. I'm not a loony though,
 trust me. *Grin*
 Regards,
 Damien.


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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Michael Feir
It certainly is for me. I have tried playing a large number of mainstream 
games with the equipment and assistance of sighted friends. Even in ideal 
cases where it's turn-based and sighted people have plenty of time to 
describe stuff, it simply isn't the same as being able to play the game 
yourself. Simply too much information is conveyed through sight for that to 
happen. I'd love to play countless arcade games, sidescrollers, rpgs like 
Oblivion and all sorts of stuff. However, it's just impossible to have a 
meaningfully fun experience with these games without sight. At best, it 
becomes a matter of memorisation rather than gaming skill. Frankly, I don't 
consider memorisation to be fun. It's work. Make me a game that portrays 
everything in an accessible and auditory manner and I'll happily fork over 
cash. That's worth my time and money to invest in providing it's within my 
areas of interest. Even though I'm unemployed, I simply have better things 
to do with both than invest in games which aren't completely accessible. I 
want fun for my time and money, an shouldn't have to go through extra 
headaches and memorisation cartwheels for that fun. I don't at all consider 
myself narrow-minded, unwiling to learn, or particularly lacking in skill. 
It's a matter of fairness and a level playing field. I won't sacrifice time 
towards becoming a robot who remembers precisely the right button to press 
at the right time just to fit in with the sighted world. What people like 
that guy who won Zelda blind is very impressive and extraordinary. However, 
it just isn't the same fundamental experience that a sighted game has with 
that classic game. It isn't even cloase. It's rather like memorising an 
entire Shakespear play to the point where you can recite it flawelessly at 
will. That's just not playing in my book. Another thing to keep in mind is 
that developers really haven't offered us the same level of complexity. 
That's due to a number of factors not the least of which is figuring out how 
to render so much detail in audio form in a way that's intuitively 
understandable.

Michael Feir
Volunteer at The Dam
www.thedam.org
2011--
Owner of Silver Smiles
Join and share the silver lining in your life.
Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles
2010--
Twitter: mfeir
Skype: michael-feir
Author of Personal Power:
How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People
2006-2008
http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html

A Life of Word and Sound
2003-2007
http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html

Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine
1996-2004
Check out my blog at:
www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com


- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


Hmmm, yohandi, possibly you are being a litle too hasty in so instantly 
deciding people's opinions are based only on assumptions or second hand 
knolidge.


Certainly, I've trried many main stream games myself, in fact I played 
original street fighter and mortal kombat in the arcades when they first 
came out.


I stil have many friends, and my brother who are gamers, and have both 
watched them play games and played myself.


So, at least in my case, judgement is actually based on experience, and I 
imagine for at least some other people on the list it would be the same.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Matheus r.c. souza
Hi yoandy and others.
i have a gba and a ps2 here, including this pc that's very good for
gaming purposes and i'm always looking forward to games that are
playable for us. unfortunately i can't get much enjoyment out of rock
band, although i have rb 1, 2, 2 track packs, gh 1 2 3 world tour and
smash hits i prefer the rb series, and it's unfortunate that they aren't
updating it in the ps2, but going back to the topic, i also enjoy
fighting games such as mk, sf 4, urban reign, and all the others, the
reason that i don't comment in the videos is just because i know very
little information about the background of characters, moves, etc.
usualy i don't play these games to earn more achievements, first because
with the years passing i have less and less time, even to login and talk
in msn, so when i feel like playing a fighting game for example i just
pick it up, complete it one time or so, beat some peoples, and i feel
good with it. however it's my preference and i know that others have
different kind of view in everything.
just curious, i missed the message with the link for the ceminar, is it
still available for downloading?
i agree that the blind community should be interested in more of these
games, guys, it's easy, memorization is only needed if you want to
change all the options, music, etc etc, for example if you're used to
these games, even if you aren't with some little efforts you can find
where a training menu, vs. mode, etc are in fighting games, the menus
are in lots of times in a similar order.
not to mention that some games, including all the dbz budokai series
(which i own all of then for ps2, and i really love all of then) i'm
surprised why no one did a review for the games and sent to brandon.)
the menus in this game are all talked, virtua fighter 4 if i remember
right menus are also with voice, so this is no excuse for you guys to
say that it's too difficult. i wish i had a current gen console such
as ps3 or x360, even a psp would do, but unfortunately i can't afford
it, but a ps2 is not all that expensive.
if you guys want  to get started in these games, just say and i can do a
long podcast explaining 5 games for example. some games i don't even
remember the menus, i just pick it and see what is what. memorization
can go as little or as much as you want, rb for example is the extreme.
menus are very easy to navigate, they don't even wrap, but the sounds
are hard to play in the higher difficulties, it takes lots of
memorizations indeed, but there are some things that help us play the
game, such as the pitch of the notes, and knowing the song, and various
other things.
for those of you that only played audiogames, i don't even know if they
can be compared to these mainstream games, some of then in my opinion
can, but there are rare ocasions, very very rare.
yes, we are restricted to a small genre of games, including ritm games,
fighting, beat'em ups and if you feel like trying, sports may even be
accessible, like soccer, with the commentary giving so much information
it's easy to know what's happening. pitermach said that even the
drifting mode in need for speed was accessible, i was surprised, i still
need to try it out.
so, here are my cents, i'm not pretending to criticise anyone with these
arguments, just to complement with what others have said.
i'm playing videogames for lots of years, the first console i had was a
snes, but i also played the mega drive(or genesis)(streets of rage!!)
and in the past i've also had a ps1, i think i still have it in my
father's house, i think it works.
if you're pretending to buy a console that will offer you fun and help
you get started, i recommend ps2 definitely, the games now are cheap to
buy.
but of course if you have money, get the new consoles.
hope we can continue discussing this topic, with more peoples knowing
about these sighted games, the more we can hope to see games that will
offer accessibility for the blind, at least talking menus and features
that will help us in more dificulty games, like rpg, etc.
just one more thing that i remembered. another example of a totaly
playable game for us, for the pc platform, is shank. even with the
platforms and stuff, you require little memorization to complete the
game although the fighting part is challenging. me and many others have
did it, so even if you have a pc, there's still some games you can
enjoy.
-Mensagem original-
De: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
Para: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com,Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org
Data: Segunda, 7 de Fevereiro de 2011 15:53
Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

when I said unrealistic, I was referring to the fact that no developer is
ever going to cater to them. so if you're waiting for such a video game to
come out, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Also my email wasn't
intended to sound accusatory in any way. I'm just a bit frustrated with the
community as a whole and most people's

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Allison Mervis
I think one of the reasons why not many people respond is because I'm not
sure how many blind people want to pay $200 or $300 for a mainstream game
console on which they might only be able to play three or four games at
most. It's definitely not worth it for me. Secondly, when I'm playing a
game, I want to get lost in the world of the game itself. IF I have to
constantly worry about pressing menu, then button A twice, then pressing
down arrow 20 times, then clicking my heels three times, and finally
pressing enter and hoping I've landed on the right option, I'm going to lose
interest very quickly.
Allison

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. 

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up. 
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.

absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying  my
self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.





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Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Matheus r.c. souza
hmm, that's not right, menu memorization is only needed most of the
times in the main menu, unless you want to get a rpg or something like
that and try to play it, it certainly will be hard. however, if you buy
a console such as ps3, there aren't only 3 or for 4 games accessible,
there are lots of then, and much more to come in the future.
example: mk vs dc, street fighter 4, super street fighter 4, final
fantasy xiii, shank, soul calibur 4, dragon ball raging blast 1 and 2,
and the other that i don't remember the name, rock band, guitar hero,
tekken, mvc3, blasblue
and the list goes on and on. if you don't have money to afford the
consoles,it's a different
thing, but even the ps2 has a very very large selection of playable
games, most fighting, but oh well.
-Mensagem original-
De: Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com
Para: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Data: Segunda, 7 de Fevereiro de 2011 16:58
Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

I think one of the reasons why not many people respond is because I'm not
sure how many blind people want to pay $200 or $300 for a mainstream game
console on which they might only be able to play three or four games at
most. It's definitely not worth it for me. Secondly, when I'm playing a
game, I want to get lost in the world of the game itself. IF I have to
constantly worry about pressing menu, then button A twice, then pressing
down arrow 20 times, then clicking my heels three times, and finally
pressing enter and hoping I've landed on the right option, I'm going to lose
interest very quickly.
Allison

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.

absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,
that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
friend's

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Allison Mervis
No offense, but the only one here who has expressed anything even resembling
true negativity here is you. Some blind people enjoy mainstream games, some
don't. The people who enjoy mainstream gaming will comment on your podcasts.
The people who don't will not. It's that simple. So take a deep breath,
relax, and go play Street Fighter instead of berating those of us who choose
not to.
Allison
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:39 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

It's not whether I accept it or not, it's the whole negativity surrounding
video games based on nothing but speculation and assumptions that I get
annoyed about.

- Original Message -
From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Why can't you accept that there are people who aren't interested in video
 games. We are among a small minority who play them. I think you just have 
 to
 deal with that.


 -Original Message-
 From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
 Behalf Of Yohandy
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:06 PM
 To: Gamers Discussion list
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

 SO since you didn't have much success with mainstream gaming when you were
 younger, you just assumed ok I can't play this? you gave up, just like 
 that?

 you never considered trying the game for a while and try to figure things
 out? also I'm sorry to say, but you'll never find a mainstream game that
 caters to your extremely unrealistic specifications.


 From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:43 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hi Yohandy,

 I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list.
 If the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without
 sighted assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such
 as all menu options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have
 no interest in it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself
 when I was younger just because I liked the sounds and wanted to
 experience a fraction of what my friends were talking about all the
 time. I didn't have much success, but that does not mean I have no
 interest. Tell me a game that I can read the manual fore, install,
 run, and play without requiring any help from someone sighted, and
 also that will not run me 300 dollars for a console and 40/50 for the
 game, and I will be more than happy to play. But I am not willing to
 buy a console just because I might, with trial and error, be able to win 
 a
 few times after countless attempts and assistance.
 That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

 Kind regards,

 Philip Bennefall
 - Original Message -
 From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
 frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes.
 I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band 
 samples
 up.
 you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
 samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
 feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people
 simply either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the
 ones to always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that
 is? simply that the games we post about are mainstream games, not
 audio games. I've noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even
 if it's the most simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping
 to download it immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of
 messages on the subject. But when we post something having to do with
 console games, the thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement
 has been feeling this frustration as well. it's been leaking through
 in his emails to the list even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So
 my question is this: what must we do to get you guys interested in
 something other than topspeed 3, or any other audio game for that
 matter? don't you guys have that spark of curiosity to find out
 everything there is to find about video games? why is everyone
 ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of members,
 and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
 games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games.
 there's so much more out

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi,
While I do have some interest in mainstream possibilities it sounds as if
most everything we can play are beat-em-ups which, I must confess, are not
really my cup of tea.

Best Regards,
Hayden


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Matheus r.c. souza
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:01 PM
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

hmm, that's not right, menu memorization is only needed most of the
times in the main menu, unless you want to get a rpg or something like
that and try to play it, it certainly will be hard. however, if you buy
a console such as ps3, there aren't only 3 or for 4 games accessible,
there are lots of then, and much more to come in the future.
example: mk vs dc, street fighter 4, super street fighter 4, final
fantasy xiii, shank, soul calibur 4, dragon ball raging blast 1 and 2,
and the other that i don't remember the name, rock band, guitar hero,
tekken, mvc3, blasblue
and the list goes on and on. if you don't have money to afford the
consoles,it's a different
thing, but even the ps2 has a very very large selection of playable
games, most fighting, but oh well.
-Mensagem original-
De: Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com
Para: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Data: Segunda, 7 de Fevereiro de 2011 16:58
Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

I think one of the reasons why not many people respond is because I'm not
sure how many blind people want to pay $200 or $300 for a mainstream game
console on which they might only be able to play three or four games at
most. It's definitely not worth it for me. Secondly, when I'm playing a
game, I want to get lost in the world of the game itself. IF I have to
constantly worry about pressing menu, then button A twice, then pressing
down arrow 20 times, then clicking my heels three times, and finally
pressing enter and hoping I've landed on the right option, I'm going to lose
interest very quickly.
Allison

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good

Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

2011-02-07 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi,
But what does memorizing a few buttons give us? Where's the enjoyment in
justknowing that you press x button this many times, then press y button.
There's no replay value there.


Best Regards,
Hayden


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Shiny protector
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:52 PM
To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.

Hi Philip,
Honestly, memorising a bunch of buttons is not a hard thing. Imagine 10 
beliefs I had to memorise in RS, cause the others were using powerpoint. 
That is a lot more skillful too do than memorise a bunch of buttons. I mean,

my LSA selected the slides, and I read out the beliefs out to the class, 
without even holding a brail paper. This is getting off topic though apart 
from the game part I was talking about, so I'll stop talking about RS and 
that sort of thing.

BTW Philip, did you get my email regarding some of the sounds in tj? Please 
email me off list at the following address.
muhamme...@googlemail.com
Thankyou!
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hi Yohandy,

 I pretty much feel the same way as a lot of other people on this list. If 
 the game is not accessible enough to allow me to play without sighted 
 assistance, or requires me to learn everything by heart such as all menu 
 options etc before I can even begin, I quite frankly have no interest in 
 it. I did my fare share of controller punching myself when I was younger 
 just because I liked the sounds and wanted to experience a fraction of 
 what my friends were talking about all the time. I didn't have much 
 success, but that does not mean I have no interest. Tell me a game that I 
 can read the manual fore, install, run, and play without requiring any 
 help from someone sighted, and also that will not run me 300 dollars for a

 console and 40/50 for the game, and I will be more than happy to play. But

 I am not willing to buy a console just because I might, with trial and 
 error, be able to win a few times after countless attempts and assistance.

 That is a sacrifice that I feel is not only huge, but fruitless.

 Kind regards,

 Philip Bennefall
 - Original Message - 
 From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:12 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.


 Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
 frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
 sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
 you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
 samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
 feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people 
 simply
 either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
 always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
 that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
 noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
 simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
 immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
 subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
 thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
 frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
 even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
 we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or 
 any
 other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
 curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why 
 is
 everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
 members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about 
 mainstream
 games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
 much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a 
 gamer
 when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
 at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a 
 rock
 band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
 feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard 
 drives
 and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
 robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting 
 anything
 else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or 
 have
 any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing

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