RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-30 Thread Steven Noels
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... Strong case in pointthe jakarta.apache.org and www.apache.org websites are built with Anakianot that XSLT crap. [shrug] /Steven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-30 Thread Martin van den Bemt
On Thu, 2002-05-30 at 01:49, Ted Husted wrote: If you accept a nomination to be a committer, and gain CVS access, then you can apply your own patches. Since most of use the products we patch, this is an important benefit to most contributors. If you happen to see a patch from another

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Leo Simons
Case can be made that since putting something in CVS is putting something up for lazy majority vote (and I subscribe to that), this is not a good 'use case'. But what is wrong with a role for people that have the option to propose something for a lazy majority vote, and then no

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Yeah, exactly. And what if there is someone who actually wants less responsibility and less rights than a committer, but still more than a contributor? -1 It is all about granularity: less rights, less responsibility. Gee I'd like to dump my code here and not bother with the

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Leo Simons
On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Yeah, exactly. And what if there is someone who actually wants less responsibility and less rights than a committer, but still more than a contributor? -1 why? Does the term white elephant mean anything to you? thought that

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I don't think there is anything to forbid a community from temporarily granting CVS access. ;) Well, I think our guidelines forbid us. You cannot give someone CVS access without giving them all

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Paulo Gaspar
28, 2002 5:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... ... A developer can suggest a change. A committer can make it happen. - Sam Ruby Anyone can suggest a change. A developer can submit a patch. A committer can make

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
thought that was a special kind of elephant... http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=white%20elephant ...does now. In some Asian cultures, a particularaly cruel way to blight someone you didn't like was to gift them a white elephant. They'd need to feed and take care of it because they

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: From: Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I don't think there is anything to forbid a community from temporarily granting CVS access. ;) Well, I think our guidelines forbid us. You cannot give someone

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Leo Simons wrote: On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 15:50, Paulo Gaspar wrote: Despite all the arguments I still can NOT see why it should be more complicated than this (Sam + Jon definitions). there's been numerous examples mentioned in this thread. Also, the system already _is_ more

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Why is increased granularity in role/right/responsibility bad in general? 1. Because it is a cop out. http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=cop%20out (I'm learning today =) which one do you mean? /**/ To avoid fulfilling a commitment or responsibility; renege: copped out

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 5/29/02 7:23 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to me the point that Pier was trying to get accross that I agreed with is that there is sometimes work that happens outside of CVS worthy of committership (and/or that should require committership) irrelevant of CVS access. Yea,

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 5/29/02 7:23 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to me the point that Pier was trying to get accross that I agreed with is that there is sometimes work that happens outside of CVS worthy of committership (and/or that should require committership)

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 5/29/02 1:47 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got shot down by the POI community. Sounds like a common thread, eh? ;-) -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Sam Ruby
Ted Husted wrote: I believe the fundamental principal behind our system is Them that does the work makes the decisions. +1 I believe a secondary principal behind our system is Thanks for volunteering. +1 - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 5/29/02 4:53 PM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Husted wrote: I believe the fundamental principal behind our system is Them that does the work makes the decisions. +1 I believe a secondary principal behind our system is Thanks for volunteering. +1 - Sam Ruby

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 5/29/02 1:47 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got shot down by the POI community. Sounds like a common thread, eh? Not sure what you mean. How's the bar doing? -Andy ;-) -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-28 Thread Leo Simons
Since this is a volunteer organization, and we all have other pressing responsibilities, it is important that we do not encourage any systemic bottlenecks. I wrote: user: no rights, no responsibilities developer: right to get quoted as author for authored pieces, no responsibility

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-28 Thread Sam Ruby
Leo Simons wrote: Since committing is voting, what I think what some people want is a non-vetoing Committer. I think 'some people' don't see/don't agree to the committing is voting, and then what they want is a Developer-with-CVS-access, which is more or less what they said. Committing

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-28 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
I totally disagree with everything you just said. I think committer status should be granted to folks who do *other* things outside of CVS. But the key word is Do. So pretend for a second that Pier is *not otherwise* a comitter to Tomcat and wherever, he does a lot of other stuff like

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-28 Thread Danny Angus
I agree with andy to an extent here: I do NOT think developers should be granted CVS access without voting rights. But do still believe that there ought to be a more restrictive set of permissions, and responsibilities, for entry level sub-project membership, if entry level members buy-in

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-28 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 5/28/02 12:12 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leo Simons wrote: Since committing is voting, what I think what some people want is a non-vetoing Committer. I think 'some people' don't see/don't agree to the committing is voting, and then what they want is a

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-28 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Tue, 2002-05-28 at 17:36, Leo Simons wrote: On Tue, 2002-05-28 at 14:20, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I totally disagree with everything you just said. Uhm, I think you disagree with the idea we should have 'developers/contributors' with CVS access who are not committers. I'm not sure

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-27 Thread Peter Donald
Hi, I would love to be able to give people partiial access to projects and I would also love to expire accounts if they are dormant or the person goes MIA. For instance the first one would be especially useful in projects like ant, excalibur and commons. Many times in ant the committers have

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-27 Thread Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
Hi Andrew, -Mensaje original- De: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: sábado 25 de mayo de 2002 18:39 Para: Jakarta General List Asunto: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... From my understanding, in most European parliamentary democracies

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-27 Thread Leo Simons
+ some mailing list management software + some product release software) it would be very beneficial to push the administration down onto project leads So we'll also have 'project leads' ? And some people who write and maintain code, but have different rights ? we have, in practice,

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-27 Thread Ted Husted
I think the real point is that while, given the chance, some people may prefer to do one thing or another, as Committers we all can potentially do anything that needs to be done whenever we have time to do it. Since this is a volunteer organization, and we all have other pressing

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-27 Thread Sam Ruby
Ted Husted wrote: Since committing is voting... +1 - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-27 Thread Peter Donald
On Tue, 28 May 2002 03:12, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 26 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote: + some mailing list management software + some product release software) it would be very beneficial to push the administration down onto project leads So we'll also have 'project leads' ? we

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-26 Thread Danny Angus
+0 I like this, I think it is needed, as it should help to extend the experience and knowledge of the community by acknowledging the services of non-coders. I believe, though, that as sub-projects grow we will eventually need to address the issue of scope, but in the meantime this would be an

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-26 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
But Pier, it doesn't address your original problem though, does it? Which was about the bar height, or how to encourage contributors, and increase the number of contributors without diluting, and clogging up, the community and decision making processes. Total and complete agreement. Well

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-26 Thread Ted Husted
Those who do the work of creating a Jakarta product are entitled to make the decisions regarding that product. A successful product is more than code, it also requires documentation and support and easy-to-use distributions. Whether a patch is to the code or the documentation isn't relevant.

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-26 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... Those who do the work of creating a Jakarta product are entitled to make the decisions regarding that product. A successful product is more than code, it also requires documentation

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-26 Thread Bill Barker
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 9:17 PM Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ignacio J. Ortega wrote: but all i can say from the history i know

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. Hola, you tend to forget a part I'm stressing out quite hardly...

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Tim Vernum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. But it's not just about exercising rights, it's also about

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James Gonzo Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave his employment and terminate his working (9 to 5)

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Jeff Turner
On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 02:04:24PM +0100, Pier Fumagalli wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice.

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). I am a +1 on Piers proposal. Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can be very constructive for this community! Designers, politicians,

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Designers, politicians, copywriters, lawyers, nannies, cleaning lady, sys admins, people with great ideas (the thinkers) etc,etc.. A community is more then just programming, although it is our core business here. Others can give us a look at

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 10:44, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). I am a +1 on Piers proposal. Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can be very

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 09:13, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James Gonzo Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
Andy, With this attitude nothing gets ever implemented I guess. In this case Pier can hardly say : I am going to implement this and all of you comply! So he can implement whatever he wants, as long as it it still veto'd its no use investing spare time in. I offered myself 2 times to jakarta as

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be implementing that shortly. (Step 1. Drive Server to chapel hill, Step 2. Install Scarab on it for practice, Step 3. install here) -Andy On Sat,

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:16, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. Then I fail to see your connection with my story too.. I'll Give it try anyway : If no one cares or just one person cares and needs to vote of all to get things

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be implementing that shortly. (Step 1. Drive Server to chapel hill, Step 2. Install Scarab on it for

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread James Taylor
My projects haven't come to a grinding halt. Only on general @ jakarta But this isn't about your projects, it is about the community, and the community is more important than the code. Do you even know why you are here? -Andy -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
-- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and realize how little value he brings to the community =) +1 on humor ;) You can add some extra by committing my patches for turbine-2.. )) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands,

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
The converse: You all can vote all day long on what I'm to do, but what are you going to do when my dissenting vote is cast by me not actually doing it? Voting has NOTHING to do with what work gets done. Thats the POWER of those who do. We are talking about this proposal am I right not

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:38, James Taylor wrote: My projects haven't come to a grinding halt. Only on general @ jakarta But this isn't about your projects, it is about the community, and the community is more important than the code. Do you even know why you are here? No.. how about

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread costinm
On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James Gonzo Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave his

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
James Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and realize how little value he brings to the community =) Sorry James, I just _had_ to do this! :) Nothing personal!!! :) :) :) sarcasm Just need to grep the right files... You are a good

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James Gonzo

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the right to vote, but also the due to vote... This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are we undermining that? you also have the right to abstain. Sometimes you speak loudest by not

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the right to vote, but also the due to vote... This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are we undermining that? Hmm.. democracy is also having the right not to vote. Just don't complain if

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the right to vote, but also the due to vote... This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are we undermining that? No, it isn't. In a true democracy, one

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
Maven provides that functionality ;)) see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/activity-log.html Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:28, Pier Fumagalli wrote: James Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and realize how little

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread James Taylor
while one of the major democracies of the world, the US, doen't surely have one of the highest turnouts. And a lot of people see that as a really bad thing. Turning in an empty ballot is one thing, but not going to the polls because you can't tear yourself away from 'Must See TV' is ignoring

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
No, it isn't. In a true democracy, one has the right to abstain. IMO that a good democracy doesn't need strong feelings: many dictators go to power with a strong vote with a strong turnout, while one of the major democracies of the world, the US, doen't surely have one of the highest

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
LOL ;-) On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 12:43, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Maven provides that functionality ;)) see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/activity-log.html Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:28, Pier Fumagalli wrote: James Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- jt (who is

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the right to vote, but also the due to vote... This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are we undermining

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
its a meritocracy. Thanx to the Oxfort dictionary I know what it is.. But all democracies are actually meritocracies according to the dictionary, they select you to be able to vote when 18+. But this is getting way to Off-Topic I guess... ;)) Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread costinm
On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Just need to grep the right files... You are a good committer, I see that you have 2342 commits into the turbine CVS. Good. I still beat you, overall I'm at 10717, Andy is at 2666 (Andy you're so lazy), but hear hear, Costin has 25871, beating

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the right to vote, but also the due to vote... This is one of the fundamental concepts of any

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 12:53, Martin van den Bemt wrote: its a meritocracy. Thanx to the Oxfort dictionary I know what it is.. But all democracies are actually meritocracies according to the dictionary, they select you to be able to vote when 18+. But this is getting way to Off-Topic I

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Just need to grep the right files... You are a good committer, I see that you have 2342 commits into the turbine CVS. Good. I still beat you, overall I'm at 10717, Andy is at 2666 (Andy you're so lazy), but hear hear,

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Martin van den Bemt
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:03, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: The action worthy of merit being: Surviving adolescence? Too many words I need a dictionary for ;)) (it's hard to discuss stuff you have to get out of a dictionary, so I will not try that) I will conclude this day of way too little coding by

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), then why measure them at all? If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is the way that this community has to decide whether a person is a committer or not, given that as it is

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), then why measure them at all? If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is the way that this community has to decide whether a person

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the way that *any* community decides in voting? You *are* a member of the community even if you do not have an account. http://xml.apache.org/roles.html : Developers Developers are

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It does have the right to vote, but it's not binding (at least this is what Stefano told me two weeks ago). I don't want developers that are not committers to vote: a vote is important for the future

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread costinm
On Sat, 25 May 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I respect Craig mostly for the quality of his code ( even if I prefer different solutions and we disagree on many other things ), I respect Sam the most for keeping a low-key as 'PMC president' ( I never saw him use the 'I'm the PMC chair'

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread costinm
On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Nope, we shouldn't but we should give it to those who ARE interested in the future of Jakarta, or XML, and _do_stuff_ for those project, but are not bound to a particular codebase. We should change our meter from being you contribute CODE to the

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-25 Thread Ignacio J. Ortega
De: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: sábado 25 de mayo de 2002 19:52 If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is the way that this community has to decide whether a person is a committer or not, given that as it is today, you're not recognized as

[PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Chatted with a lot of people, seen many, different development models, went around, asked, talked, and I believe I have a pretty decent picture, and maybe even a solution... So the major topic of discussion is that I perceive a substantial difference between being able to commit code to a CVS

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread Henri Yandell
+1. Another example if I could. The job role of 'Java admin' is growing more and more at companies. Developers shouldn't be adminning things, but would you have your unix or oracle admin be the admin of the Java side with zero Java knowledge? Jakarta houses the 'Java' community at Apache but

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
-1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. On Fri, 2002-05-24 at 21:11, Henri Yandell wrote: +1. Another example if I could. The job role of 'Java admin' is growing more and more at companies. Developers shouldn't be adminning things, but would you have your unix or

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread costinm
-1 If someone doesn't want to be involved in the voting - he can do exaclty that, abstain. If someone doesn't want to support a particular release - he can abstain from the release vote( or vote +-0 ). If you spend time and write code for a project and are willing to maintain/support - and if

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread Pier Fumagalli
Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1. Another example if I could. The job role of 'Java admin' is growing more and more at companies. Developers shouldn't be adminning things, but would you have your unix or oracle admin be the admin of the Java side with zero Java knowledge?

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread Pier Fumagalli
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do agree ( and I advocated for this a lot ) on lowering ( or eliminating) the walls between projects, so jakarta commiters can commit code in any jakarta project ( subject to the normal project rules ). Some people didn't agree with that even for

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread costinm
On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. Hola, you tend to forget a part I'm stressing out quite hardly... It's not only rights... It's also dues,

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread Tim Vernum
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. But it's not just about exercising rights, it's also about granting rights. At the moment, you