Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Thu, 2002-05-30 at 01:49, Ted Husted wrote: > > If you accept a nomination to be a committer, and gain CVS access, then > you can apply your own patches. Since most of use the products we patch, > this is an important benefit to most contributors. If you happen to see > a patch from another c

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... > Strong case in pointthe jakarta.apache.org and > www.apache.org websites > are built with Anakianot that XSLT crap. [shrug] -- To unsubscribe, e-

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Sam Ruby wrote: >Ted Husted wrote: > > >>I believe the fundamental principal behind our system is >> >> Them that does the work makes the decisions. >> >> > >+1 > > +1 > > >>I believe a secondary principal behind our system is >> >> Thanks for volunteering. >> >> > >+1 > > +1

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Jon Scott Stevens wrote: >on 5/29/02 1:47 PM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>I got shot down by the POI community. >> >> > >Sounds like a common thread, eh? > > Not sure what you mean. How's the bar doing? -Andy >;-) > >-jon > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

on 5/29/02 4:53 PM, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ted Husted wrote: >> >> I believe the fundamental principal behind our system is >> >>Them that does the work makes the decisions. > > +1 > >> I believe a secondary principal behind our system is >> >>Thanks for volunteering

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Ted Husted wrote: > > I believe the fundamental principal behind our system is > >Them that does the work makes the decisions. +1 > I believe a secondary principal behind our system is > >Thanks for volunteering. +1 - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

I believe the fundamental principal behind our system is Them that does the work makes the decisions. Integrating code or documentation into CVS is work, and people who do that work are entitled to be decision-makers. I believe a secondary principal behind our system is Tha

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

on 5/29/02 1:47 PM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I got shot down by the POI community. Sounds like a common thread, eh? ;-) -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Jon Scott Stevens wrote: >on 5/29/02 7:23 AM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>to me the point that Pier was trying to get accross that I agreed with >>is that there is sometimes work that happens >>outside of CVS worthy of committership (and/or that should require >>commit

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

on 5/29/02 7:23 AM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > to me the point that Pier was trying to get accross that I agreed with > is that there is sometimes work that happens > outside of CVS worthy of committership (and/or that should require > committership) irrelevant of CVS access.

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > > > >>>"Why is increased granularity in role/right/responsibility bad in >>>general?" >>> >>> >>> >>1. Because it is a cop out. >> >> > >http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=cop%20out (I'm learning today =) > >which one do you mean? > > /**/ To avoid fulfilling a commitment or re

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> Pragmatically I think if a community voted to temporarily grant access > to its CVS repository, I'll bet it > could be done. More than likely...point of discussing it is to try and reach an agreement about whether it should be done... > >"Why is increased granularity in role/right/responsibil

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Leo Simons wrote: >On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 15:50, Paulo Gaspar wrote: > > >>Despite all the arguments I still can NOT see why it should be >>more complicated than this (Sam + Jon definitions). >> >> > >there's been numerous examples mentioned in this thread. > >Also, the system already _is_

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: >From: "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >>On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: >> >> >>> I don't think >>>there is anything to forbid a community from temporarily granting CVS >>>access. >>> >>> >>;) >> >>Well, I think our guidelines for

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > >thought that was a special kind of elephant... > >http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=white%20elephant > >...does now. > > In some Asian cultures, a particularaly cruel way to blight someone you didn't like was to gift them a white elephant. They'd need to feed and take care of it because

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 15:50, Paulo Gaspar wrote: > Despite all the arguments I still can NOT see why it should be > more complicated than this (Sam + Jon definitions). there's been numerous examples mentioned in this thread. Also, the system already _is_ more complicated than the definitions be

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > I don't think > > > there is anything to forbid a community from temporarily granting CVS > > > access. > > > > ;) > > > > Well, I think our guidelines forbid us. You cannot give someone CVS > > access without giving them all the comm

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 5:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... ... > > > > A "developer" can suggest a change. > > > > A "committer" can make it happen. > > > > - Sam Ruby &g

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > I don't think > > there is anything to forbid a community from temporarily granting CVS > > access. > > ;) > > Well, I think our guidelines forbid us. You cannot give someone CVS > access without gi

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > Yeah, exactly. And what if there is someone who actually wants less > > responsibility and less rights than a committer, but still more than a > > contributor? > > > > -1 why? > Does the term "white elephant" mean anything to you? th

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> Yeah, exactly. And what if there is someone who actually wants less > responsibility and less rights than a committer, but still more than a > contributor? > -1 > It is all about granularity: less rights, less responsibility. > > > "Gee I'd like to dump my code > > here and not bother with

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > Case can be made that since putting something in CVS is putting > > something up for lazy majority vote (and I subscribe to that), this is > > not a good 'use case'. But what is wrong with a role for people that > > have the option to propose something for a lazy majority vote, and then > > no

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Tue, 2002-05-28 at 17:36, Leo Simons wrote: > On Tue, 2002-05-28 at 14:20, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > I totally disagree with everything you just said. > > Uhm, I think you disagree with the idea "we should have > 'developers/contributors' with CVS access who are not committers". I'm > not su

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

on 5/28/02 12:12 AM, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Leo Simons wrote: >> >>> Since committing is voting, what I think what some people want is a >>> non-vetoing Committer. >> >> I think 'some people' don't see/don't agree to the "committing is >> voting", and then what they want is a D

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

I agree with andy to an extent here: > I do NOT think developers should be granted CVS access without voting > rights. But do still believe that there ought to be a more restrictive set of permissions, and responsibilities, for "entry level" sub-project membership, if entry level members buy-

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

I totally disagree with everything you just said. I think "committer" status should be granted to folks who do *other* things outside of CVS. But the key word is "Do". So pretend for a second that Pier is *not otherwise* a comitter to Tomcat and wherever, he does a lot of other stuff like m

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

I changed "Developer" to "Contributer" throughout the guidelines, if for no other reason than to match the terminology of the "Contributor License" distributed by the ASF. Personally, I feel that the current guidelines do express the concept that committing is voting by lazy consensus. That's w

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Sam Ruby wrote: >Ted Husted wrote: > > >>Since committing is voting... >> >> > >+1 > > You can look at it the other way round: voting is (in a sense) committing (yourself) to the project. :-) My itch is that I have been overwhelmed with work, to the point that I can barely follow the c

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Leo Simons wrote: > >> Since committing is voting, what I think what some people want is a >> non-vetoing Committer. > > I think 'some people' don't see/don't agree to the "committing is > voting", and then what they want is a Developer-with-CVS-access, which > is more or less what they said. > >

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> Since this is a volunteer organization, and we all have other pressing > responsibilities, it is important that we do not encourage any systemic > bottlenecks. I wrote: "> > user: no rights, no responsibilities > > developer: right to get quoted as author for authored pieces, no > > responsibil

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Tue, 28 May 2002 03:12, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sun, 26 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote: > > + some mailing list management software + some product release software) > > it would be very beneficial to push the administration down onto project > > "leads" > > So we'll also have 'project leads

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Ted Husted wrote: > > Since committing is voting... +1 - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

I think the real point is that while, given the chance, some people may prefer to do one thing or another, as Committers we all can potentially do anything that needs to be done whenever we have time to do it. Since this is a volunteer organization, and we all have other pressing responsibilitie

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > + some mailing list management software + some product release software) it > > would be very beneficial to push the administration down onto project "leads" > > So we'll also have 'project leads' ? > > And some people who write and maintain code, but have different rights ? we have, in p

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sun, 26 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote: > + some mailing list management software + some product release software) it > would be very beneficial to push the administration down onto project "leads" So we'll also have 'project leads' ? And some people who write and maintain code, but have di

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Personally, I would say the Jakarta system is most like a judicial system. It's not the lawmaking or executive branch that is so often exposed to democracy, but the judicial branch, which is often held above democracy -- and in the US is used to keep the mob in check. Committers don't make laws,

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Hi Andrew, > -Mensaje original- > De: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Enviado el: sábado 25 de mayo de 2002 18:39 > Para: Jakarta General List > Asunto: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... > > From my understanding, in most E

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Hi, I would love to be able to give people partiial access to projects and I would also love to expire accounts if they are dormant or the person goes MIA. For instance the first one would be especially useful in projects like ant, excalibur and commons. Many times in ant the committers have w

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Hi Pier, > -Mensaje original- > De: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Enviado el: sábado 25 de mayo de 2002 18:31 > Para: Jakarta General List > Asunto: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... > Being a committer (at least that's my idea

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 9:17 PM Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... > On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ignacio J. Ortega wrote: > > > bu

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

- >(discussions get forgotten, just code remains) > - > > > - Original Message - > From: "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Su

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

;Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities... > Those who do the work of creating a Jakarta product are entitled to make > the decisions regarding that product. A successful product

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Those who do the work of creating a Jakarta product are entitled to make the decisions regarding that product. A successful product is more than code, it also requires documentation and support and easy-to-use distributions. Whether a patch is to the code or the documentation isn't relevant.

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> But Pier, it doesn't address your original problem though, does it? > Which was about the "bar height", or how to encourage contributors, and > increase the number of contributors without diluting, and clogging up, the > community and decision making processes. > Total and complete agreement.

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

+0 I like this, I think it is needed, as it should help to extend the experience and knowledge of the community by acknowledging the services of non-coders. I believe, though, that as sub-projects grow we will eventually need to address the issue of scope, but in the meantime this would be an im

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ignacio J. Ortega wrote: > but all i can say from the history i know, that you are simply suffering > some kind of father syndrome, like those fathers that, when his children Stop reading Freud :-) ! We need to add as commiters not only a lawyer, but also a shrink now. Co

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> De: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Enviado el: sábado 25 de mayo de 2002 19:52 > > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is > the way that > this community has to decide whether a person is a committer > or not, given > that as it is today, you're not recogn

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Nope, we shouldn't but we should give it to those who ARE interested in the > future of Jakarta, or XML, and _do_stuff_ for those project, but are not > "bound" to a particular codebase. We should change our "meter" from being > you contribute CODE to

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > > I respect Craig mostly for the quality of his code ( even if I prefer > > different solutions and we disagree on many other things ), I respect > > Sam the most for keeping a low-key as 'PMC president' ( I never saw > > him use the 'I'm the PMC c

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It does have the right to vote, but it's not binding (at least this is what > > Stefano told me two weeks ago). > > > > I don't want developers that are not committers to vote: a vote is important >

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It does have the right to vote, but it's not binding (at least this is what > Stefano told me two weeks ago). > > I don't want developers that are not committers to vote: a vote is important > for the future of the project, and the future of Apac

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What is the way that *any* community decides in voting? > > > > You *are* a member of the community even if you do not have an account. > > > > http://xml.apache.org/roles.html : > > " > > Develop

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What is the way that *any* community decides in voting? > > You *are* a member of the community even if you do not have an account. > > http://xml.apache.org/roles.html : > " > Developers > > Developers are the people who write code or docume

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), then why measure them > > at all? > > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is the way that > this community has to decide

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), then why measure them > at all? If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is the way that this community has to decide whether a person is a committer or not, given that as it

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:03, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > The action worthy of merit being: Surviving adolescence? Too many words I need a dictionary for ;)) (it's hard to discuss stuff you have to get out of a dictionary, so I will not try that) I will conclude this day of way too little coding by

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > > Just need to grep the right files... You are a good committer, I see that > > you have 2342 commits into the turbine CVS. Good. > > > > I still beat you, overall I'm at 10717, Andy is at 2666 (Andy you're so > > lazy), b

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 12:53, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > > its a meritocracy. > > Thanx to the Oxfort dictionary I know what it is.. But all democracies > are actually meritocracies according to the dictionary, they select you > to be able to vote when 18+. But this is getting way to Off-Topic

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > >> "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > >> > >> This is one of t

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Just need to grep the right files... You are a good committer, I see that > you have 2342 commits into the turbine CVS. Good. > > I still beat you, overall I'm at 10717, Andy is at 2666 (Andy you're so > lazy), but hear hear, Costin has 25871, beating

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> its a meritocracy. Thanx to the Oxfort dictionary I know what it is.. But all democracies are actually meritocracies according to the dictionary, they select you to be able to vote when 18+. But this is getting way to Off-Topic I guess... ;)) Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the >> "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... >> >> This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country.

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

LOL ;-) On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 12:43, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > Maven provides that functionality ;)) > see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/activity-log.html > > Mvgr, > Martin > > On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:28, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > "James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> No, it isn't. > In a true democracy, one has the right to abstain. > > IMO that a good democracy doesn't need strong feelings: many dictators go to > power with a strong vote with a strong turnout, while one of the major > democracies of the world, the US, doen't surely have one of the highest

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> while one of the major > democracies of the world, the US, doen't surely have one of the highest > turnouts. And a lot of people see that as a really bad thing. Turning in an empty ballot is one thing, but not going to the polls because you can't tear yourself away from 'Must See TV' is ignorin

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Maven provides that functionality ;)) see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/activity-log.html Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:28, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > "James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and > > realize ho

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > > This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are > we undermining that? No, it isn't. In a true democ

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > > This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are > we undermining that? Hmm.. democracy is also having the right not to vote. Just don't comp

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > > This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are > we undermining that? > you also have the right to abstain. Sometimes you speak loudest by

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> Hints for newbies, make your CVS commits small, so your overall activity > meter will grow. Two lines at a time, and if you have a nice file of 1000 > lines, you get 500 points just for that... > I'll try and remember that next time. Can//; //; We //; //; //; get //; //;

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > >> Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. >> >> It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this >> communi

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and > realize how little value he brings to the community =) Sorry James, I just _had_ to do this! :) Nothing personal!!! :) :) :) Just need to grep the right files... You are a good com

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. > > It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this > community, nor James "Gonzo" Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:38, James Taylor wrote: > > > My projects haven't come to a grinding halt. Only on general @ jakarta > > But this isn't about your projects, it is about the community, and the > community is more important than the code. Do you even know why you are > here? > No.. how

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> The converse: You all can vote all day long on what I'm to do, but what > are you going to do when my dissenting vote is cast by me not actually > doing it? Voting has NOTHING to do with what work gets done. Thats the > POWER of those who do. We are talking about this proposal am I right no

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:38, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. > > > > I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be > > implementing that shortly. (Step

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:38, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:16, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. > > Then I fail to see your connection with my story too.. > I'll Give it try anyway : If no one cares o

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and > realize how little value he brings to the community =) +1 on humor ;) You can add some extra by committing my patches for turbine-2.. )) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> My projects haven't come to a grinding halt. Only on general @ jakarta But this isn't about your projects, it is about the community, and the community is more important than the code. Do you even know why you are here? > -Andy -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. > > I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be > implementing that shortly. (Step 1. Drive Server to chapel hill, Step > 2. Install Scarab on it fo

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:16, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. Then I fail to see your connection with my story too.. I'll Give it try anyway : If no one cares or just one person cares and needs to vote of all to get things imple

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be implementing that shortly. (Step 1. Drive Server to chapel hill, Step 2. Install Scarab on it for practice, Step 3. install here) -Andy On Sat, 2002-05

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Andy, With this attitude nothing gets ever implemented I guess. In this case Pier can hardly say : I am going to implement this and all of you comply! So he can implement whatever he wants, as long as it it still veto'd its no use investing spare time in. I offered myself 2 times to jakarta as

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 09:13, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. > > It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this > community, nor James "Gonzo" Todd (ex employee at Sun), t

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 10:44, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code > however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). > > I am a +1 on Piers proposal. > > Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can > be ver

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Martin van den Bemt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Designers, politicians, copywriters, lawyers, nannies, cleaning lady, > sys admins, people with great ideas ("the thinkers") etc,etc.. A > community is more then just programming, although it is "our" core > business here. Others can give us a l

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). I am a +1 on Piers proposal. Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can be very constructive for this community! Designers, politicians, copywrite

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 02:04:24PM +0100, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > > >>> If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. > >>> If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James "Gonzo" Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave his employment and terminate his working (9 to 5) relat

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Tim Vernum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all >> other commiters. >> If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. > > But it's not just about exercising rights, it's also

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > >>> If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. >>> If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. >> >> Hola, you tend to forget a part I'm stressing out qui

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all > other commiters. > If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. But it's not just about exercising rights, it's also about granting rights. At the moment, you can

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. > > If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. > > Hola, you tend to forget a part I'm stressing out quite hardly... It's not > only "rights"... It's also

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do agree ( and I advocated for this a lot ) on lowering ( or > eliminating) the walls between projects, so jakarta commiters can commit > code in any jakarta project ( subject to the normal project rules ). > Some people didn't agree with that even

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > +1. > > Another example if I could. The job role of 'Java admin' is growing more > and more at companies. Developers shouldn't be adminning things, but would > you have your unix or oracle admin be the admin of the Java side with zero > Java knowledge

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

-1 If someone doesn't want to be involved in the voting - he can do exaclty that, abstain. If someone doesn't want to support a particular release - he can abstain from the release vote( or vote +-0 ). If you spend time and write code for a project and are willing to maintain/support - and if t

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

-1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. On Fri, 2002-05-24 at 21:11, Henri Yandell wrote: > > +1. > > Another example if I could. The job role of 'Java admin' is growing more > and more at companies. Developers shouldn't be adminning things, but would > you have your unix

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

+1. Another example if I could. The job role of 'Java admin' is growing more and more at companies. Developers shouldn't be adminning things, but would you have your unix or oracle admin be the admin of the Java side with zero Java knowledge? Jakarta houses the 'Java' community at Apache but th

[PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Chatted with a lot of people, seen many, different development models, went around, asked, talked, and I believe I have a pretty decent picture, and maybe even a solution... So the major topic of discussion is that I perceive a substantial difference between being able to commit code to a CVS rep