And of course, most importantly, if you have the time and want to assume the
worst case for all software, you can look at the licenses (I assume that's
what you mean by worst case, otherwise I suppose you'll have to actually
audit every line of the code, which comes back to my questining the
>I won't risk telling you anything I don't know. Software is >complicated
matter, just like all Stallman's talks show us, >we must assume the worst
case for a software, not the best.
As stated before, Freedombox can be installed on Debian and Debian is not a
FSF endorsed distribution,
> Then I would suggest to Joe to use a librebooted computer. I am sure
> then he will find some other reason why free software is irrelevant as
> it seems his strategy is to argue by demanding impossible perfection.
I don't want to sound harsh to any of you, but all I can say is this:
without
> repositories is free software too. Given there is no alternative that
> is more freedom respecting than Freedombox for a plug server, I do not
> see how it would be unethical for me to recommend it. I even wonder if
Well for plug-server, you have plenty already, to name a few: Parabola,
I am just telling you things.
Is there an actual question I have to answer or are you just telling me
things?
I will try to explain again and give you the benefit of the doubt once,
although I suspect it may just extend this conversation into the indefinite
future.
What do you mean by ensuring security? Who is your oponent? What is the
threat? What are you trying to achieve?
I will divide this
You assign a belief to someone who rejects trust, authority and belief and
who tests. And you call him dogmatic based on that just because you like to
praise N specific people.
You also seem to make no difference between disrespectful and not kneeling
down.
You messed up so much in your attempt to be derogatory.
You assign a belief to someone who rejects trust, authority and belief and
who tests. And you call him dogmatic based on that just because you like to
praise N specific people.
You also seem to make no difference between disrespectful and not kneeling
down.
I am not here to prove anything to you. You simply refuse to understand that
security has levels and ensuring security through free software is
meaningless when your hardware is a malware. Being repeatedly cynical won't
make you understand.
You prove my point. You keep moving the goal post and demand impossible
perfection.
You make it seem that using free software is useless and quaint, which it is
not, and that achieveing some amount of privacy or security is useless
because other aspects of computing are flawed. I find
Edit: Mistakenly wrote "can" instead of "cannot."
> would not. I would probably use some 'degoogled' (if that's even possible)
chromium.
I already explained what I meant by that
(https://trisquel.info/en/forum/family-privacy-again#comment-127677). But
yes, I wouldn't have expected less from you.
> Why would you say so?
Heyjoe is
to mason ;;; i did what you're sayin'. -- cms
> Be good to each other (and send me bitcoins) \o/
:)
Learning to speak your language, so hopefully you understand better.
> Firefox is free software. If it had not been for Firefox we would probably
all be using Microsoft's browser by now.
I would not. I would probably use some 'degoogled' (if that's even possible)
chromium.
>Firefox is far from perfect, but you seem to have a dogmatic and visceral
hate for
> Don't advise about things which you have not tried.
I did sed replace with a lot of source code a lot of times. There was never
any problem whatsoever, and you obviously cannot provide any reason why it
should not be feasable.
> 1) Learn practically
One reply earlier you told me not to
What's the point of discussing the *belief* of someone, especially
considering that it obviously is dated and does not reflect the current state
of things? If I tell you "yes, it is plausible" or "no, it is not plausible"
- what value has that?
Libreboot does not remove replace proprietary firmware all chips. You still
have proprietary microcode for the CPU for example. So using a libreboot
machine doesn't change things much. Also a libreboot machine suggest that you
use a fairly old hardware. Oh... and libreboot does not fix the
My question, which was directed to mason (but, of course, I encourage anyone
to respond to it), seems to have been ignored. Eben Moglen, a prominent
figure of the free software movement, believes that by 2022 Facebook will
have reached its peak and would henceforth start to decline. Given
Thanks Adfeno.
Then I would suggest to Joe to use a librebooted computer. I am sure then he
will find some other reason why free software is irrelevant as it seems his
strategy is to argue by demanding impossible perfection.
> You literally wrote:
Ok. Maybe I should have been more explicit by saying "He seems to assume that
free software PER SE gives him privacy..."
Is that clear now?
> Why not?
Try it and you will see. Don't advise about things which you have not tried.
1) Learn practically 2) Share, not 1)
> Not sure what you mean by ring 3. First time I hear that term. If you
He refers to the issue of MINIX's existance in ring -3 sector of all
computers with Intel Management Engine ([1]).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINIX#MINIX_3 . See the last paragraph
of that section and the references
> I have never said that.
You literally wrote:
"He seems to assume that free software gives him privacy which is rather
superficial considering the issues mentioned in this thread"
> FWIW I have already looked at that option but it is not that simple (sed
replacement).
Why not?
The data
> saw that the file it downloaded is with date from 2016, so I guess it
> takes care of that.
See the "description" field in the .info.json file, it's the field that
mostly appears in every attempt to download videos using avideo or
youtube-dl. There is a field which also tells the upload date,
> There again you come with this "free software can't give you privacy" bs...
I have never said that. Before telling another he talks "bs" you should
understand what he says. What I have explained previously is that just
because a program is released as free software is not a guarantee that
There again you come with this "free software can't give you privacy" bs...
yeah you did a tcpdump and found some background chatting, which is not nice,
that's true.
Do the following:
1. download the source code of firefox
2. do a sed replace for every unwanted URL firefox is communicating
Thanks Adfeno. From reference [1] I conclude the problem is Debian is not on
the list of FSF endorsed distributions. Freedombox is composed of free
software as far as I can see. Debian without non-free repositories is free
software too. Given there is no alternative that is more freedom
You conflate free software, privacy and security. You also do not (or refuse
to) understand that one program can be free even if others are not and we can
still speak about the software freedom of that program.
I do not need to look at any other context to say that a program is free
Thanks for sharing the links. I will look at those materials when I have more
time.
As for avideo: the man page says it does have such option. FWIW I just saw
that the file it downloaded is with date from 2016, so I guess it takes care
of that.
> I didn't look at YouTube. I downloaded with avideo locally.
> So blame the one who shares dated info and asks for feedback based on
> current issues :)
Don't worry, this happens with everyone. ;)
I didn't have time to test this yet because I rarely use YouTube ---
except for getting stuff out
All forms of proprietary firmware are not a free software either. So talking
about software freedom at ring 3 when the system is compromised at ring -3 is
nonsense. And defending such talking shows lack of understanding, ironically
by a person who blames others for not understanding well
For those which reported missing references for the message I'm replying
to (my own one), here is the references. Now they should appear normally
for those reading using the forums.
[1] https://downloads.softwarefreedom.org/2017/conference/0-keynote.webm
. According to
For those which reported missing references for the message I'm replying
to (my own one), here is the references. Now they should appear normally
for those reading using the forums.
[1]
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/freedombox-discuss/2017-April/007982.html
.
[2]
* Opera is not free software.
* Firefox is not perfect. You seem to live in a completely binary world. What
satisfies your standards? If nothing, what are you creating that satisfies
your standards.
* I can see you don't care who Moglen is. I do and I have a problem with you
calling him
> the upload date was 2012-06-01
I didn't look at YouTube. I downloaded with avideo locally.
So blame the one who shares dated info and asks for feedback based on current
issues :)
BTW I see no links in your current and previous posts. I think it should be
better if you put them in the
> however I must note thatit's not a free/libre system distribution,
Wow, I didn't know that. It's a project started and led by Moglen AFAIK. I am
surprised it is not free software. Your footnotes are missing, do you have a
link to this information?
> It unfortunately isn't free/libre, due
> "Firefox frees people from a net created by Microsoft"
>
> Yeah, like
I do agree with you, although it must be noted that the upload date was
2012-06-01, and unless I'm mistaken (please investigate this or correct
me if I'm wrong), back then we were unaware of the freedom issues of
> * Freedombox, the "plug server" you make reference to, is a real
> project, it works and is being developed.
Yes, Freedombox really exists and has releases, however I must note that
it's not a free/libre system distribution, so we mustn't recommend it
here, and so far I have received no
I was answering Aristophanes. Did you read anywhere a question "How should I
spend my time" or "What do I need"?
> If it had not been for Firefox we would probably all be using Microsoft's
browser by now.
Opera was there before Firefox. (fwiw)
> Firefox is far from perfect, but you seem
Too many talkers, too few of them touch the actual essence of the problem.
* Eben Moglen has spent his professional life struggling for privacy and free
software. Since you seem to dismiss free software at ever turn, you may be
interested to know that among many many other things, he was
He seems to assume that free software gives him privacy which is rather
superficial considering the issues mentioned in this thread:
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/freedom-security-technology-what-can-we-do
I also see that his optimism about what he wants makes him oversimplify
fairly
Eben Moglen believes that 2022 is a good estimation of the maximum length of
Facebook's lasting, and he seems to have a deep knowledge of the issues in
hand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJCczbSF-B8). What is your opinion,
given the threats/dangers you mention?
You can get your copy of GNU Social to be like Facecrap, most
importantly change the character limit to something equal or greater
than 500.
Also you don't need the Raspberry stuff if you are going for a simple
home server, various free/libre system distribution projects use Beagle
Bone Black and
I tried to install diaspora but the server which is a ra*berry pi (it is n ot
open hardware i asked in the forums and they CAN NOT release the gpu code,
and they say it does not have backdoors but who will believe that,
eoma68 is too much expensive that I cannot buy locally) not being able
always welcome, mate Joe!
Thanks for the links.
> So I probably shouldn't say that I don't either, but will you tell me how
when you figure it out?
I think it should be possible to create filter based on mail headers (which
contain info about the sending server, i.e. you can identify if it is Gmail).
> How are we doing so far?
One of
On 01/30/2018 01:45 AM, Heyjoe wrote a post that was apparently directed
towards myself, the owner of the "Heather" account on the Trisquel
Community peer-support forums, but I'm probably going to answer very
imperfectly and over time so here goes:
You said:
I don't know how you will filter
>I could not even find the deletion option in Facebook's settings. I had to
get there from an external link in a support thread.
the very excellent privacytools.io website gives two links (which I post so
akito can sneak on his memberz_fams backdoored computers and secretely
"delete"
I am not enforcing rights on anyone. I am just pointing out the fact that on
the other side of the wire there is a compromised system which cannot be
trusted and that by securing just one node in a network doesn't give security
of communication as long as the other nodes are not secure.
And that removes Intel ME and proprietary firmware? Or Spectre?
You see - you are still thinking in terms of *I* and *me* although I
explained that on the other side of the wire there are millions affected by
those systems. It is beyond your resources, beyond your little libre system.
I
I would remove their contact resources/forms/ways that are not
*federated* (this is a little beyond free/libre software as a product,
and is very important, see: [1], it belongs to a subset of the
free/libre software as philosophy).
Email is, at least by design, federated, so you don't need to
> But you can still have your email program filter out all @gmail addresses,
send them to a special folder, and decide whether to reply by landline
telephone, postage stamp, or passenger pigeon instead of email.
I don't know how you will filter GSuite email addresses with custom domain
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
Perfect analogy.
But you can still have your email program filter out all @gmail addresses,
send them to a special folder, and decide whether to reply by landline
telephone, postage stamp, or passenger pigeon instead of email.
Of course that won't work for your employer or your ex-wife, but why feed the
> unless of course the other person uses Gmail in which case it doesn't
matter
That is the actual case I am talking about. You may have the perfect free,
clean hardware and software, not use any spying services etc. but you have to
communicate with others and others are inside a corrupt
Yep.
And let's not forget prevention of family members, as imperfect as our
current technology may be.
/Heather of the Trisquel Boards
> He explained that he
> deactivated his account
Both deletion (no more account) and deactivation (the account sits waiting for
you to come back) are available, but Facebook goes out of their way to lead
people to deactivate rather than delete. I could not even find the deletion
option in
>old data was there
Which reminds of Binney when he says that metadata dousn't need that much
space, even the metadata of the entire world, to get stored. Why do you think
they keep building more and more of these monsters? Their motto is 'collect
it ALL, so we can know it ALL'. I bet my
/me hands the solution for family member outrageous privacy disrespect to
akito
**solution (use it wisely)
> Because it is stupid and futile.
Yes, we should not have to give up our dignity to void being surveilled, and
I'm not convinced it would work anyway.
Of course, but we all did it anyway. I had to rat out one of my own kids
with the facial recognition software because mine had been "temporarily
disabled" for so long that I didn't have a clue who any of the other
"friends" they wanted me to identify even were.
Mason, you write from a deeper
Yesterday I watched a recent video by Lunduke. He explained that he
deactivated his account long ago, asked several times for confirmation that
everything was deleted and received only replies from some people forwarding
him to other people. In the end he was told that this cannot be
> You cannot remove anything from Facebook. It is never deleted, even after
> the account is deactivated. It will stay on FB's servers and be used for all
> kinds of things like facial recognition, machine learning etc.
When I finally smartened up and deleted my account Facebook claimed that my
I don't know if it is a solution for every day, but since Akito is a minor I
would definitely want him to use this or a mardi gras mask if he were a
family member or someone else I cared about enough to want try to protect.
It has seriously gotten so bad that minors are routinely
The only stupidity is not taking advantage of what people can imagine to face
something : face recognition for this example.
Akito has been pictured during a party and this picture have been posted on
Facebook without his conscent. Right ?
It could have been anyone. I'm not someone special
> Why not have a try ?
Because it is stupid and futile.
You see - all this pattern of thinking about the ultimate entertainment,
security through isolation, being a king etc. is the root of the problems we
are facing. Yet man thinks he can escape from all this with more
entertainment and
Well, I don't think mass surveillance is a joke.
This article is actually quite serious and face recognison is used
everywhere, even in the steets. Not only on Facebook.
I'm an funny person.
Making a surprise to the family and friends who are using a lot Facebook for
trying this method can
> You cannot remove anything from Facebook. It is never deleted, even after
the account is deactivated. It will stay on FB's servers and be used for all
kinds of things like facial recognition, machine learning etc.
I agree
I don't think it is very sane to turn oneself into a clown or damage one's
vision with deliberate obstructions. This won't remove mass surveillance.
Remember that when you send an email the chance that on the other side of the
wire there is a PRISMed system (Gmail, Yahoo etc) is huge.
Did
https://cvdazzle.com/
A solution for everyday ?
> I have not read the idea of panopticon.
Do it.
> Are you suggesting to hide in plain sight idea?
I am not suggesting anything along the lines of "do this" or "don't do that".
It is important to see things for oneself and from that comes clarity and
right action.
> So I convinced them
I have not read the idea of panopticon. Are you suggesting to hide in plain
sight idea? So I convinced them to remove some of my pictures but they did
not remove it entirely it still shows my face and facebook's facial
recognition is what I or everyone should fear.
There are surveillance cameras even when you walk outdoors or drive your car.
There are also satellites which take pictures from above all the time and
send it to the governments. Is the solution to hide?
Modifying one's behavior because of all that will not change anything, it
will even
Hey guys, so we had a celebration last night and they said they want a family
picture but they will not upload when it includes me. Now this morning I am
very surprised that the person who said that will not upload the pictures (my
photo) uploaded it.
I am on a brink of destruction right
heyjoe,
I haven't ever meant that something free meant freedom.
I've well understood the term "Free software". I speak french, I still use
"Libre".
You quote me but edited the sentence.
When I say "you are the product" it means that by being on Facebook, you are
bringing FOR FREE contents
Mason,
You are preaching a conviced person.
The market share is also important and have to be noticed.
I live in a country where 51% of the people are on Facebook ! Even after
Snowden revelations. And nothing have changed ! It is even worst !
A lot of people don't give a f*** about
> Facebook is free, and always will
Free as in price doesn't mean freedom. The price we pay for using free things
has turned out to be much higher than actually paying with money. Currently
we pay for cable TV and 95% of the programs show commercials. Why? I don't
want to watch
> Don't tell your family that using facebook is bad.
> It is not bad to share picture with other persons.
>
> Just tell them that when a company like facebook is getting so bigger and
> lets no place for other social medias like diaspora* or gnu social (you can
> add the example of google), this
There's one positive shred in that article.
"a growing number of coders and designers are quitting their jobs in
disillusionment at what their work entails"
It's nice to hear that some individuals in Silicon Valley have a conscience.
Unfortunately, quitting now might be too little too late.
“It’s possible that in 20 years we’ll look back at the current
generation of children and say: ‘Look, they are socially different from
every other generation of humans that came before and as a result this is a
huge problem and maybe we need to regulate these behaviours.’
The damage is
Dear Akito
Don't tell your family that using facebook is bad.
It is not bad to share picture with other persons.
Just tell them that when a company like facebook is getting so bigger and
lets no place for other social medias like diaspora* or gnu social (you can
add the example of google),
Excellent article. Thanks for sharing.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/23/never-get-high-on-your-own-supply-why-social-media-bosses-dont-use-social-media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
Pascal and I can agree to disagree; his wager[1] still works:
1.)If I genuinely believed that a supreme deity who was keeping a list and
checking it twice genuinely thought that I and everybody I cared about was
naughty every time we tried to be nice, I would want to kick that (expletive)
You touch a very important point indeed, joe. God is indeed almighty for
he/she (I prefer 'it) is omnipresent and omniscient.
>The more I look at what is happening, the more I think: the only salvation
is some deep genetic mutation which would make human species into something
else.
> It's not a good feeling when you get up every morning knowing that your own
government is tracking you. They told me later 'we knew when you got up, we
knew when you left your house, we knew which vehicles you used, where you
stopped, where you shopped', for every electronic communication
I find it not much different from the belief that there is an almighty entity
(God) watching from above your every move and thought an deciding where you
should go next.
The only difference - before it was an idea, now man has made it into a fact.
So man created the idea of god, then
Actually they got it wrong. They have **nowhere** to hide, not 'nothing'.
Allow me share some food for your brain
It's not a good feeling when you get up every morning knowing that your own
government is tracking you. They told me later 'we knew when you got up, we
knew when you left your
Too many people have "nothing to hide". I find it very hard to argue with
them.
What is Seafile?
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
On Thu, 2018-01-18 at 15:48 +0100, dh...@fastmail.com wrote:
> If family black sheep had grades, mine would be obsidian.
>
> I simply tell them that they have
> already fucked their privacy and they are beyond help; they can figure out
> how to reset their password on their own.
I don't do
On Sun, 2018-01-14 at 10:48 +0100, i_write_wo...@posteo.net wrote:
> I have very little to add except for a caution: if you are a minor and maybe
> even if you aren't, please do not email pictures of yourself to Facebook
> addicts.
Thank you for mentioning this. I never thought about simply
On Sat, 2018-01-13 at 22:55 -0800, Mason Hock wrote:
> Facebook is designed to addict its "users" with what its former
> vice-president describes as "dopemine-driven feedback loops."
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/11/facebook-former-executive-ripping-society-apart
>
> Your
> I am sorry for you m8. Get a job maybe and your place so you can distribute
> fuckoffs in complete tranquility
I'm not the OP, but I am in the same boat. I have a job, but it doesn't
pay enough for me to support myself fully. Transportation is especially
expensive! (More than $210 US each
> I don't know if it is even possible now to protect a child from being
> profiled by Facebook until they are old enough to protect themselves, but if
> you do you will have given your child a choice, which is a great gift and
> something I never felt that I had.
Friends, esp. girls, will
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