> From Charlie Noah:
> >> Totally OT, and I'm just musing here - Rocket, Raining
> >> Data then TigerLogic. Does anyone besides me see a
> >> trend here?
> Tony Gravagno wrote:
> > Uh, I don't get it. How are those related? What trend?
>
) names as well.
T
> From: Jeff Schasny
> grep and sed and really acronyms for global regular
> expression parser and stream editor. Awk was named for
> the 3 people who developed the language: Alfred Aho,
> Peter Weinberger, and Brian Kernighan
>
> Tony Gravagno wro
my approach to this kind of thing:
nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2009/08/mv-to-anything.html
(Copy everything after nospam)
HTH
T
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET worldwide
and provides related development services
r
> From:David Wolverton
> The += I completely agree with. No arguments on that point at
all.
I've actually only adopted use of +=, -=, etc in Pick BASIC over
the last few years. I've been concerned that older developers
wouldn't recognize the syntax, and that it wasn't portable across
Pick platf
> From:David Wolverton
> But back to the 'issue' I was raising, although in
> this example it's moot - the generic statement was
> that 'IF ... # ... THEN' is 'bad style' ?? I still
> have missed why that should be considered 'wrong' or
> 'bad'.
>
> If it's purely style, then that's OK too an
David - you're undertaking an effort that most people seem to do
alone. I wish we had more community resources on the
considerations and HowTo's for various VCS's. Many people have
an opinion but one must research a number of options before being
able to form a really valuable opinion with compar
e of this in
my own code. So once again this forum has provided value. :)
Best,
T
> From: Tony Gravagno
> I think the objection is to this:
>
> IF A # B THEN FOO ELSE BAR
>
> It's that Not/Else thing that can bend the brain.
>
> I think most people prefer:
>
>
> From: Symeon Breen
> Because i do not think it is any harder to understand
> or in any way obfuscated, tis simple logic...
Symeon, I think you missed my larger point that different
programmers have different brains and chemistry, and thus certain
thoughts are processed differently. Not a radic
en writes a response
back to another file. The BASIC app knows nothing about sockets,
remote servers, or any such detail, it simply writes and reads
data, which is what a database is good at - and this is more
within the comfort zone of most MV developers. I can share more
info about such a solu
> From: MR MICHAEL.HENDERSON
> I have recently started getting email from
> "postmas...@u2marketplace.com" about the 'U2 Market
> Place'. It also features "Return-Path:
> u2...@mercury.serverphase.com". Whilst it looks like
> it might be kosher, I'm a little intrigued as to where
> they got my
blog titled "Not going to Spectrum because. ?"
Comments welcome.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno
___
S model, and to do
side-by side comparisons of SQL with MV database operations.
Aside from Revelation, I don't think any company is doing this
kind of thing for the MV world, and even then I don't think they
have been doing it "for the MV world", but really just for
To answer everyone:
Yes, PROF was a tutorial account which you might find on a
Reality, ADDS, or maybe GA system.
Sierra-Bravo simply published the D3 Reference Manual at
d3ref.com and then forgot about it 6 years ago.
Yes, Malcolm has/had a ton of things like this but he may not be
selling anym
Yeah, great stuff as long as someone else does it, and for free,
right? ;)
(Not directed, Bill, just a general comment...)
> From: Bill Brutzman
> Dawn is on to something...
>
> Rocket, U2UG, or stars on this list could whip up a sheet for
> www.DZone.com .
>
> Likewise, MV tutorial videos cou
> From:Charles Carroll
> Just use Tor Project and you can browse anything. They
hide/relay all
> your requests and the network has no idea what sites you are
browsing.
I don't think bypassing management decisions is the proper way
with address an issue like this. Someone can get terminated for
vi
.
I'm not saying people shouldn't write books, and I wish we had
more too. I'm just saying we need to figure out a way to allow
people who can write to do so without losing their homes. Fix
that problem and we'll see a Lot more content.
T
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research a
> From: Glorfield, Gordon
> Our network admins use a product called Websense to restrict
> access to certain web sites such as Facebook and Myspace.
> For some reason Websense blocks my access to the
> wordpress.com domain saying that it is categorized as a
> "Black Friday Site". Is there a m
etails above but I think
it's reasonable to conclude that anyone who has considered
writing a Pick book in the last 15 years or so has simply decided
that it's too much effort with not enough potential return.
T
> From: Tony Gravagno
> Related, there isn't a critical mass of p
> From: Kevin King
> I know you said you didn't want to use PHP but there's
> a simple function (hash_hmac) in PHP to generate the
> value; should be simple enough to send values in and
> get values back out through a OS level PHP call, if UV
> won't do it natively.
Related, using cURL to do H
> From: FFT2001
> What is the advantage of cURL over wGET for invoking HTTP
queries ?
http://bit.ly/curl-vs-wget
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s used to support the environment, fund code
changes to make the process better, etc. Maybe I should blog
this? ;)
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products
worldwide, and provides related develo
Let's see:
+1 compliment
-1 completely unprovoked and incomprehensible backswipe
I guess I'm about even today. Thanks guys.
Here we go again... Seriously George, I've been doing this forum
thing for almost 20 years now, having created one of the very
first online forums for Pick at CompuServe. Af
Let's see:
+1 compliment
-1 completely unprovoked and incomprehensible backswipe
I guess I'm about even today. Thanks guys.
Here we go again... Seriously George, I've been doing this forum
thing for almost 20 years now, having created one of the very
first online forums for Pick at CompuServe. Af
that direction.
If you don't know how to approach this market and you don't want
to get some help to do so, then I recommend you find a different
market to offer your services.
Good luck,
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.
> From: Mecki Foerthmann
> AFAIK UD can be run in case insensitive mode as well.
> I always turned case-insensitivity off in D3 because I think
> it's a real pain in the neck.
> Sounded great to start with but when you see the first
printouts (i.e.
> invoices) you curse yourself if you didn't turn
> From: Will Johnson
> I think Tony you're missing the Pick calling card which is
> the application.
Your response was unrelated to my inquiry about porting from
other MV platforms to U2.
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> From: Mecki Foerthmann
> Forget it Tony.
> I know Joe, he is genuine and actually got me a job once.
Then he should have known better. Obviously he didn't provide
the information that candidates need to decide whether or not
they feel they're qualified. Everyone's time here has been
wasted by
itors, network monitors, etc. Rocket has been
all over this but I'm not sure they have a solid resolution.
I'll link you guys up off-list so that you may be able to benefit
from their experience.
Best,
T
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.p
> From: Ed Clark
> How would you run unidata in case insensitive mode so that
> "ABC"="abc"?
For A/S types, an old trick is to put a mask in both the
conversion and the correlative:
007 MCT
008 MCT
So the query WITH FOO="aBc" will match any stored data and even
output as "Abc".
That doesn't re
I understand your distinction and tend to agree. However, some
Developers are not qualified to be a System Administrator, and
some System Administrators are not qualified to be Developers.
The terms "professionals", "respected colleagues" and others
would be more complimentary but could be just as
to/from RDBMS - Not as tough as it sounds"
nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2011/04/mv-rdbms2.html
HTH
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
htt
capable tools (language bindings, connectivity, etc) come
free with the platform. Once that's done you will have a
mainstream platform with no threats from management and no looks
of distaste for your DOS-ish application.
I can't say Caché is for everyone but the ISC/Caché offering
ch/mv/2011/04/u2upgrade2.html
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno
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> From: David Jordan
> From my observations, I don't quite agree on Tony's
> summation of Cache vs U2.
You are of course welcome to disagree, and I might even agree
with some of your points. But several of your points disagree
with statements that I didn't make. Rather than go through each
in de
And with your last note yes, we are in complete agreement. :)
Thanks.
T
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> From: Dan McGrath
> Just as an aside, there are better reasons for not making your
> underlying technology public knowledge. A lot of companies have
it in
> their security policy to not disclose this information. Knowing
a
> company's underlying architecture makes it easier to look for
specific
>
Will, I'll be clear that I'm talking about you publishing the
names of MV sites without their approval, and thank you for
stating your position on that.
Your naïve statement that you're "merely publishing the names of
companies" is not the problem. The problem is that you are
identifying these co
Please make use of available resources...
http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CreatePDFDocuments
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ls you choose, they all work with U2
Search my blog for Flash, Flex, Silverlight, and related
keywords. I've written a number of articles on this topic.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue product
> From: David Jordan
> It is the problem with a reliable product there are
> not enough issues to keep the list busy. If you had
> one of the competitor products there would be a ton of
> issues to deal with to keep multiple forums busy.
> Funny how buggy software can look good, because ther
I decided to expand on this topic and post a blog on it:
nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2011/05/back-in-my-day1.html
Some people may need to 'sew' that link together if the list
server or their email client rips it apart. Please remove
'nospam'. (Oh the hassles of the modern world)
T
__
Since I'm mentioned here... As Bill's vendor and support provider
for mv.NET I feel bad when underlying technologies fail.
Metaphorically speaking, the auto mechanic can't fix potholes,
only help to improve the shock absorbers to make the bumps less
painful. As Bill's friend, we frequently discuss
Brian and Symeon, since mv.NET is wrapping UO.NET, the issues you
mention don't apply:
- Bill isn't managing the UO.NET API calls, so he has no control
over them.
- Once the connection is established, only one client process has
access to any given server connection. Therefore, no
multi-threading.
I created an interface with USPS a few years ago in a product
which was shelved due to overwhelming lack of field interest -
perhaps I just marketed this one poorly.
(nospam.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/products/ship.htm)
The XML exchanges worked quite well and as I recall there were
very few issues. The
While a direct connection from UO sounds elegant, I would advise
that such connectivity should be carefully considered. If you're
coming into U2 from the outside world via UO, then you may have a
direct and insecure connection to your DBMS exposed to the world.
I recommend instead using a web serv
ion. I'm also
doing a lot with voice/telephony, virtual PBX integration for
companies that want to shift from hardware solutions to more
versatile phone systems backed by MV. This is only "mobile"
because some companies have decided to forego the pleasures of
the GUI for common
> From: Jeff Schasny
> 1) I work for a business and write business
> applications.I have no interest in writing Rag Doll
> Blaster or Angry Birds for U2.
Your perspective in your response to #1 is different from #2 so
I'm a little confused. In short, if you look around there are a
lot of busine
For George, I think a question about "what would be some
potential uses" characterizes our community, and is part of what
prompted me to open the discussion. With hundreds of thousands
of apps out there for every mobile device, there are any number
of potential uses for mobile access, regardless o
hould all
consider mobile amongst all of the other UI options to address
end-user needs/desires. ... And I'm just wondering how U2 sites
are thinking about such things or implementing solutions.
Regards,
T
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
ple still ask "how do I create a GUI?". Overall, we're in
the business of Data Processing with a solid engine for
development and execution of business rules, not User Interface
Processing. UI's change continuously over time. Don't ask Why,
just get on the bandwagon and s
> From: Dan McGrath
> Don't just find out 'what' the users want to achieve,
> understand 'why' as well.
Quite right, Dan. My poorly edited text intended to convey that
developers shouldn't continue to question why they should do
something with alternative user interfaces. It should be evident
t
best to apply the text you provided as a mask.
In the second case, with the colon for concatenation missing, the
space in quotes is applied as a mask to INFO1, which can destroy
the data, and INFO2 is then concatenated.
The thing to remember is that the system will do exactly what we
tell it to,
Both installable apps and browser UIs have their place in the
mobile world. There are pros and cons with each option. As with
everything, it's a matter of understanding the audience and the
technology, and selecting the right tools for the job. What's
important to remember is that it all works w
I feel compelled to add a big RightOn! to Brian's observations.
The world has gone from treating programmers like gurus to
treating them like a low-cost and expendable commodity. A
company gets a "web developer" who may know something about HTML
and scripting (or they may just know drag-n-drop too
> From: Symeon Breen
> Doug
> Have you ever thought of doing an add on for Visual
> studio similar to what you have done for eclipse ?
Symeon, I've written a VS addon like this for myself, but lack of
interest in this market for such things precludes them ever
getting into the field. I blogged
I'll ask a simple question and only expand if really necessary.
Compile a subroutine in a Pick flavor Universe account.
That subroutine has a Named Common statement.
Now F-point to that code file from an Information flavor account.
Compile another program that calls the first. (This can be in a
f
> From: Ed
> I'm guessing that you have an array dimensioned in the
> common? Pick flavor default to $OPTIONS STATIC.DIM,
> while Information flavor defaults to $OPTIONS
> -STATIC.DIM. With STATIC.DIM, each array A(n) takes up
> n slots in common, but with -STATIC.DIM, the entire
> array takes
Kebbon, I don't know if this is related to your NebulaXLite work,
but if you want to check to see if a Windows file is present, I
have a utility on our freeware page just for this. See "File
Status":
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/freeware/
HTH
T
___
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d
benefit from a trip to DevCon to see what I mean.
HTH
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno
> From: Symeon Breen
> U2 is one thing, MUMPS is another. They ar
depends on the environment and
skillset of the developers.
Please email if you're interested in either of the above.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products
worldwide, and provides related d
your modern competitors are doing. And
really, isn't that sort of what you've been doing for decades
anyway, just not advertising it? Then you just need to get the
DBMS vendors to open their eyes and recognize that the per-seat
licensing model has been dead for at least a decade...
> From: Mecki Foerthmann
> As I see it - I either buy a license for your
> application and separate ones for the database (U2)
> and development tools (SB+) or I won't buy from you at
> all, it's that simple! No wonder MV is struggling!
Under the strict terms of U2 licensing, as defined by IBM
s rather than Java, Ruby, Go, or
whatever else they're just starting to learn.
Yeah... as if...
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno
> From:Symeon Breen
> From: Symeon Breen
> Distributed autosharding cloud based environment - i can
> recommend Mongo DB
That's a great mainstream solution but it doesn't address the
primary concern for anyone in this forum: How do I make that work
with my U2 environment? The answer is, you don't, you write a
compl
David, I appreciate the tone and the messages that you present
here. You're right that there are appropriate approaches and
vectors to product management and development. I submit however
that these forums are not merely suited for community self-help,
but they can and should serve as a conduit o
After all of these years, why o why haven't the MV DBMS vendors
created a READUO mechanism which allows us to optimistically lock
records in exactly the way that George, Rex, and a hundred other
app developers have indicated over the last 15 years?
Design tip: For all new development, abstract you
From:John Thompson
> This may or may not satisfy your yearning for "a
> distributed cloud based MV environment"
> http://devwiki.neosys.com/index.php/Main_Page
Thanks John. I'd rather not go off the menu to another platform.
I use Pick because its fast, easy to code, and easy to adapt. I
won't
> From: Wol
> You only need a couple of users who aren't
> free-loading, and the project is unlikely to die ...
I agree with Wol and Ian. Most people just free-load, abuse a
generous author, and then abandon the project when the author
gets burned out, while blaming the open source model for the
> > Tony wrote:
> >> ... the MV market needs to define a consistent web
> >> service / REST API...
Dawn Wolthuis responded:
> > Any clues on how to get any standard that all MV
> > vendors would deploy? I'm thinking this would require
> > third-party software...
Glen responded to Dawn:
> ...
>
> From: Symeon Breen
> rec.checksum = checksum(rec)
> If checksum(tmp) = rec.checksum THEN
Symeon, there's no doubt that coding optimistically is easy, but
in addition to requiring a custom statebag you also need to
manage timeouts. Wol and others have commented on some of the
nuances here.
> From: Tom Whitmore
> Personally, "optimistic" locking is not an ideal
> method for performing updates. I know that is the way
> many DBs work but that doesn't make it right.
Uh, but that IS the way that every web-based application on the
planet works. C'mon now. Arguing the way things work
Jake Holt wrote:
> U2 has an easy learning curve ..? What? MV is a
> completely foreign concept to most people and I'd
> wager a large number of DBAs. There is no conceivable
> way that installing U2, setting up a database,
> developing an application and presenting it using a
> technology th
> From: Bob Wyatt
> Let this discussion cease and desist
Bob, I've been wondering if and when moderation would kick in,
but I think overall, the flurry of discussion has been very
positive and mostly on-topic. Perhaps the moderation should bend
away from "cease and disist" toward "please focus on
> From:Bill Haskett
> I think that's what Tony was talking about, but I could be
wrong.
%100 right, thanks.
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n
would need to be about $1500 in order to break-even with a modest
base. If I'm wrong on the state of this technology and the
possible demand, then I may forge ahead.
Thanks for any insight.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.pleaseNeb
David, what you're touching on here is one of the fundamental
differences between MV and relational: We use BASIC within the
engine to manage Referential Integrity (RI) and provide business
rules. Simultaneously, our RI is contained in the business
rules, not at the DBMS level. They use other lan
> From: Steve Romanow
> When i look at an eclipse application I see 80% ui
> that is not relevant to the task at hand. I agree
> that it and most every app implemented with it are
> trash.
I agree with the first sentence that Eclipse is bloated, but
"most every app implemented with it are tras
> From: Steve Romanow
> Real IDE's are necessary for some projects like java
> and (also java, Droid) development since it helps with
> packaging and whatnot. That really doesnt seem
> necessary for an mv app.
>
> I'll stick to my old school vim, mercurial, and ssh.
I remember Linux guys sayi
but not so strong on external
interfaces, which is what people see and pay the big bucks for.
If anyone is familiar with a Pick-based package that fits the
above description, please contact me. If you have the budget to
create one in preference to buying one, I'm open to that as well.
Thanks!
> From: Tom Whitmore
> We are having problems making the .NET telnet tool make an
> SSL connection to UniVerse on a Linux server.
> Has anyone been successful in making this type of connection?
> If so, did you use the .NET telnet tool or a third-party
product?
Someone might suggest a more native
*GASP* I've made a serious error! I thought you meant UO.NET,
the ".NET connectivity tool". I missed "telnet".
OK, it seems you want this:
..NET > telnet > SSL > internet > SSH > telnet > UV
There are many .NET Telnet clients, freeware and commercial. It
doesn't matter which one you use.
Almos
is used as a component
of the security mechanism to lock NebulaXLite and other software
to a single system. I don't care what the value is, but I need
it to be reported consistently. For now I'm issuing a
site-specific version of the software so they can move forward,
but I'd like
Yeah, I already asked the client to use "which uname" and to
otherwise look around for another executable, and the one in
/usr/bin is the only one he can find.
Keep the ideas coming bud. :)
Thanks.
T
> From: Kevin King
> Tony, are you sure Redback isn't setting some $PATH that's
> running someth
To my knowledge Redback itself isn't being asked for anything. A
BASIC sub was executed and returned the short result - I believe
this does what you're suggesting. That sub also kicks off a
phantom with the same results. Code is below.
FYI, I don't use Redback myself so please forgive any
misun
EB.IO.NAME_":USER
OUTVAL = "SAVED"
CASE OPERATION = "GET RESPONSE"
READ USER.NAME FROM WS,"WEB.IO.NAME_":USER
OUTVAL = 'the user said his name was ':USER.NAME
CALL OPERATION = "SOMETHING COMPLEX"
CALL
WEB
Doug, as confirmed by the experience of others, and confirming
your own suspicion, we can say with certainty "it's not possible
to have a functional app where CRT and INPUT are encountered by
UO".
The only way to use traditional code like that is to skip UO and
to use a telnet or SSH client from y
Karl - your original request said:
"How can I create the correct header?"
My mental response was "stop bothering with CallHTTP and use
cURL". I refrained from posting that because of the inevitable
retribution from people who prefer to bang their heads against
flaky software rather than just look
side, I've been LOLing at the lighter notes in this
thread. Thanks folks.
Final Note: my recent blogs discuss retrofitting code for GUI,
Android development, advanced Excel reporting, and more. See
link below. Thanks.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.
> From: Wjhonson
> http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/...
That page misses the important facts that RPL is still actively
sold, maintained, and used today in active application
development.
> RPL (the one from SMI, not that other one)
For historical reference, that was RPL+ licensed by R-Comp
The easy answer is to pretend you're doing this from a web page,
where the MP in LAMP is MySQL and PHP. From there you have a
world full of answers rather than something U2-specific. Note
that most shared hosts don't have a MySQL DBMS on the same system
as the HTTP servers. They almost Always se
eb service for this. You can
use CallHTTP or cURL with a GET or POST and maybe simple
REST/querystring request (depending on how complex your queries
are).
This is another one that seems like magic but it can be done in a
few minutes, and for free.
Good luck.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and D
> From:Robert Porter
> The minute the U2 listserver makes the term "battle" come to
> mind, is the minute I un-subscribe.
Reminds me that when Jon Sisk wrote documentation for Pick
Systems he described the "i" option of the startspooler verb as
"This is the last resort in Spooler warfare." Some
Yup, all the work is already done, and with the Topaz sigpad too.
Please see my blog:
no_spamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/2009/09/signatures01.html
and contact me to see if we have a good fit.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET
For reference, I've already done most or all of what Bob
describes, including integration with AnzioWin (and AccuTerm) and
PrintWizard. The difference in approaches is that I don't rely
on the Anzio tools, but have coded the interface for optional
integration with them. For a common MV app, Print
> From: Martin Braid
> VMWare also interferes with Wintegrate. Martin
How so?
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> From: Allen E. Elwood
> Anyone need/want the original JES pick basic book,
> here's your chance to pick it up for a mere $10 spot,
> give or take a few cents.
This market could Really use new books that include
platform-specific nuances, communications with different
languages and protocol
And for people who already bought a Pick system so many years
ago...
https://www.facebook.com/PickBook
> From: Susan Joslyn
> I would think that this would be a great sales tool to
> this day. Don't miss it - it is actually at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ms0yvJAUAk
> Date:"John Hester"
>
What I'm wondering as a higher-level question is: how important
are reports that are so volatile that they are invalid between
the select and the print? Certainly they're even more invalid
between printing and the time someone reads them. Another
approach might be to do a COPY or REFORMAT of sele
.com/blog/tech/mv/2011/11/mvcollaboration.html
Comments always welcome.
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products
worldwide, and provides related development services
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Did anyone buy a lotto ticket or check for planetary alignment?
This might not ever happen again: Doug, Will, and Tony all in
amicable agreement on the same day... ;)
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