[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Morocco 2022 Annual Report is out!

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Thanks for sharing Anass.

JP

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 1:42 PM Adel Nehaoua 
wrote:

> شكرا اناس
> عمل جيد للمجموعة تمنياتي بالمواصلة ومزيد من العمل التطوعي تحياتي
>
> Le lun. 23 janv. 2023, 09:03, Anass Sedrati  a écrit :
>
>> Hello dear Wikimedians,
>>
>> We are very excited to finally share with you the report of Wikimedia 
>> Morocco User
>> group, detailing the different activities in which group members
>> participated in 2022, as well as information about different projects that
>> were conducted both online and offline in the country. Please find the
>> report at this link
>> 
>> .
>>
>> If you have any questions or would like to know more about activities in
>> Morocco, or would like to partner with us, do not hesitate to contact us
>> at: wikim...@gmail.com
>>
>> Thank you, and have a great start of your week!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> --
>> -
>> *Anass SEDRATI*
>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07*
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: See you around...

[Philippe Beaudette]

Many years ago, Maggie, James and I were on the team when Stephen was
hired, and it was obvious then that he had incredible leadership potential.
I remember Geoff commenting on it as well. It’s great to see a movement
insider step into this role now.  Stephen has absolutely earned this and I
am very happy for him (as I’m sure so many of the “old timers” are.)

Congrats on a role well deserved, Stephen, and Amanda, thank you for your
incredible service to the movement. I can tell you from experience that
you’re about to want to sleep for a month….


Philippe
(Former staff….. a LONG time ago!)

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 11:36 AM Nataliia Tymkiv 
wrote:

> Dear Amanda,
>
> Throughout these past few years, I had a pleasure of working with you more
> closely than is “a normal usual” for the Board’s Vice-Chair or Chair, and I
> am sure your next chapter will be quite interesting and wish you all the
> best with all of your undertakings!
>
> I would like to thank you for all your hard work at the Wikimedia
> Foundation on behalf of the Board of Trustees – you had an impressive
> learning curve, and found yourself playing multiple roles in the
> organisation during  your tenure – ranging from General Counsel, Head of
> the Legal Department, Board Secretary and staff liaison to board
> committees, and one of three members of the Transition Team. In all your
> roles you were supporting the Foundation’s work, and though some phases
> were more demanding than others – we appreciate you supporting the
> Foundation with us on this journey.
>
> The Legal Department under your leadership was one of the most consistent,
> reliable and professional departments in the Foundation, and it helped us
> navigate through difficult times, especially now that Foundation is under
> increasing pressure from undemocratic governments and disinformation
> campaigns.
>
> One of the traits of a strong and thoughtful leader is building a
> succession plan from Day One, and I wanted to stress how the Board values
> your intentionality in this – that you recognised, mentored and elevated
> Stephen LaPorte (whom a lot of community members know as a member of the
> Wiki Loves Monuments International Team) as your next in line, and that you
> will remain available to help ensure a smooth transition.
>
> The Board is confident that Stephen will support the Foundation’s work on
> the mission going forward, and thanks you for setting a good example to
> follow on how succession and transition plans should be handled.
>
> With thanks and best wishes,
>
> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>
> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal working
> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. You
> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you in
> advance!*
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 6:33 PM Amanda Keton  wrote:
>
>> Dear fellow Wikimedians,
>>
>> I came to Wikimedia 3.5 years ago to build our global advocacy profile,
>> transform our legal team to further support the Foundation’s global
>> ambitions, partner with the Board to reform its Governance practices, and
>> ensure that the Foundation was ready to meet regulatory requirements
>> arising across the world. I am very proud of how much of this has been
>> accomplished, even in the midst of significant organizational change and
>> transition.
>>
>> When Maryana joined in January, I began a long-term conversation with her
>> about how I could set her up for success as our new CEO, while also
>> identifying a capable successor for the General Counsel role. We have been
>> working on this plan together for the past year so that I could oversee a
>> robust succession plan while also planning ahead for more time to begin
>> exploring my next adventure. As you know, we appointed Stephen LaPorte as
>> Deputy General Counsel in July.  He will succeed me as the Foundation’s
>> next General Counsel on February 1, 2023.
>>
>> I am so excited about the chapter ahead for all of us, and for the role
>> that Wikimedia has to play in advancing the mission of free knowledge and
>> open access across the world. When I reflect back on my time at the
>> Foundation, I am proud of so many things:
>>
>>- In late 2020, I was asked by the Board of Trustees to provide
>>leadership at a critical time for the organization and to help us navigate
>>our path forward. This period for the transition team was rewarding and
>>challenging, but it certainly took its toll!
>>- Growing our global advocacy team from a mention in the medium-term
>>plan into a s

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Philippe Beaudette]

Erik speaks wisely here, and I find myself in concurrence with the others
who have spoken up: this is an unusual but important opportunity, and I am
disappointed to see that WMF not even swing at the pitch.

Regards,



Philippe Beaudette
Tulsa, OK


On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 7:51 PM David Gerard  wrote:

> I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account
> mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some
> well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!)
> Dip a toe in.
>
>
> - d.
>
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller 
> wrote:
> > > These are just the nonprofits
> > > that Wikidata knows about:
> > >
> > > https://w.wiki/6Am4
> >
> > Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that
> > query: https://w.wiki/69V8
> >
> > And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice
> > start into the new year! :)
> >
> > Warmly,
> > Erik
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group 2021 Annual Report

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Good day,

I would like to share with you that the Wikimedians of North American
Indigenous Languages User Group has published its 2021 Annual Report here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_North_American_Indigenous_Languages_User_Group/Reports/2021

Thank you,

Jean-Philippe Béland aka Amqui
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Form 990 clarification request (for the attention of WMF accounts staff)

[Philippe Beaudette]

Are we back to this?  Seriously?  I thought this topic was dead for at
least six months.  It’s almost enough to make me walk away and give up on
this list.

Philippe


On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:25 PM Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As the topic of WMF salaries has come up again in another thread – a while
> ago I asked WMF accounts staff to clarify here on this list whether the
> "Salaries, other compensation, employee benefits" figure in Part I, Line 15
> of the Form 990 related solely to the number of employees indicated in Part
> I, Line 5, or whether it also included salaries, compensation and benefits
> for any contractors listed in Part V, Line 1a of the Form 990, as people
> had been speculating here on this list.
>
> While the WMF chose not to reply here, I can report that they did
> eventually include a couple of notes in the Form 990 FAQ that answered this
> question.[1] They explain that Line 5, the number of employees, only
> includes –
>
> "individuals that were issued W-2s in the calendar year. Thus, the total
> shown is the number of US-based full-time and part-time employees employed
> during the calendar year. It does not include non-US-based workers, as well
> as contractors which may be hired part-time or for specific assignments, as
> those individuals are not issued W-2s from the Foundation."
>
> They explain further that the salary costs total in Line 15 –
>
> "includes salary, benefits, retirement, wellness, and payroll taxes for
> full-time and part-time staff members in the US and outside of the US
> employed by Wikimedia Foundation or its Employer of Record. These costs as
> well as salaries vary significantly by geography. This number does not
> include fees paid to contractors, vendors, or consultants. Please also note
> that the amount shown is for the fiscal year (July 1, 2020 - June 30, 2021)
> while other information in the Form 990 is as of the calendar year (January
> 1- December 31, 2020)."
>
> So now we know that contractors are definitely NOT included in the salary
> costs total, but a number of non-US employees are. I have asked how many
> non-US employees there were in 2020, but have not received an answer to
> date.[2]
>
> However, as I have learned since, the Form 990 does actually enable us at
> least to determine an upper bound for the number of non-US employees there
> might have been. Schedule F of the Form 990 (page 29) tells us that in
> 2020, the Foundation had a total of 54 "employees, agents, and independent
> contractors" outside the US.[3]
>
> So let us put this information together.
>
> In the 2020 Form 990, we have 320 employees in Line 5, a maximum potential
> number of non-US employees of 54, and salary costs of $67,857,675.
>
> As the Foundation appears unwilling to tell us the number of full-time
> equivalents (FTEs) this salary costs total relates to, and refuses to say
> how much of it was spent on US employees and how much of it was spent on
> non-US employees, we are restricted to using an informed guess to work out
> average salary costs overall. In doing so, we have to bear in mind the
> following:
>
> 1. The number of employees in Line 5 includes part-time staff and people
> that worked only for part of the year. It is bound to be higher than the
> actual number of FTE employees.
> 2. The number of employees in Line 5 relates to the 2020 calendar year,
> whereas the salary costs total relates to the fiscal year 2020/2021 – a
> six-month difference. So in that sense the number of employees in Line 5 is
> lower than it would be if it were based on the fiscal year, as WMF staff
> numbers increase all the time (the Line 5 figure increased from 291 in 2019
> to 320 in 2020).
> 3. Only some of the 54 "employees, agents, and independent contractors"
> based outside of the US will have been non-US employees whose salary costs
> are included in the Line 15 total. After all, we all know that there are
> independent contractors outside the US, and they would have been included
> in the 54.
>
> So where does that leave us? Let us pretend that ALL of the 54 non-US
> people were actual employees included in the salary costs. This
> overestimate will perhaps make up for the fact that staff numbers increased
> in those six months. As for the fact that this new total of 374 employees
> includes part-timers and people who left during the year, let's just forget
> about that and assume they were all FTEs for the entire year. This will
> result in an overestimate of the employee number and thus an underestimate
> of average salary costs, but let's err on that side rather than
> overestimating salaries.
>
> So we have 2020 salary costs of $67,857,675 divided among 374

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Board statement endorsing community voting on the enforcement guidelines for Universal code of Conduct (UCoC)

[Philippe Beaudette]

Honestly I don’t remember the NDA, and I don’t even remember if I signed
one. It was a long time ago.



On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 11:48 AM Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

> Philippe, Luis,
>
> Glad to hear that's never been done – though there is always a first time,
> and even if there is no compulsion, it's enough for each manager to remind
> their direct reports, "Oh, and remember to participate in the UCoC vote.
> Really important." Or are you saying that could not happen either?
>
> At any rate it might be good to see a breakdown of participation numbers,
> so the proportion of staff and community votes for/against is known.
>
> While you are here, would either of you care to describe what was covered
> by non-disclosure agreements in your time?
>
> Andreas
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 5:20 PM Philippe Beaudette 
> wrote:
>
>> What Luis said. In my time at the WMF we may have pulled some boneheaded
>> moves (with the best of intent and luxury of after-analysis) but we never
>> did that. Nor have I heard of it being done to anyone.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 11:12 AM Luis Villa  wrote:
>>
>>> There are a *lot *of ex-WMF employees out there, many of whom have left
>>> the Foundation on very bad terms and talked about it very publicly,
>>> including me. They tend to be very open about talking about their bad
>>> experiences *because their loyalty is to the community well above and
>>> beyond the Foundation*.
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge, this group of people *who often dislike
>>> the Foundation and talk about that a lot *have never accused the
>>> Foundation of pressuring employees to vote a certain way. Maybe, just
>>> maybe, that’s a sign the Foundation doesn’t do that? [It certainly never
>>> did while I was there, and I can’t imagine that would have been any
>>> different under Katherine.]
>>>
>>> There are so many very real challenges facing the org and the movement.
>>> It pains me to see so many bytes wasted on this totally imaginary one.
>>>
>>> Luis
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 7:20 AM Andreas Kolbe 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anne, Alphos,
>>>>
>>>> There is no reason to assume that staff must be "craven and
>>>> ill-informed" for them to be able to be pressured to vote a certain way. At
>>>> the end of the day, they are employees. Employees are routinely asked to do
>>>> things – and comply so as to keep their jobs.
>>>>
>>>> Are you ware of anything in WMF employment contracts that prevents
>>>> management from asking staffers to participate in a vote, or to vote a
>>>> certain way? (If not, maybe this would be something worth thinking about?)
>>>>
>>>> One thing I *do* recall is that WMF staff have to sign non-disclosure
>>>> agreements. I asked once what these non-disclosure agreements look like –
>>>> nobody would say. :) It seems there is a non-disclosure agreement about the
>>>> non-disclosure agreements. If I am wrong, someone please post theirs here!
>>>>
>>>> As for WMF not being a "puppeteering archvillain", I remember what the
>>>> mood at WMF was like around the time of the Knowledge Engine and James
>>>> Heilman's removal from the board. People in charge told pork pies. WMF
>>>> staffers leaked documents to us at the Signpost, anonymously, because they
>>>> were scared.
>>>>
>>>> Last year, a number of ex-staffers posted at the en:WP village pump
>>>> about how their dream job at the WMF had turned into a nightmare and how
>>>> they'd had to quit to keep their sanity.[1] They voiced complaints about a
>>>> toxic management culture.
>>>>
>>>> María Cruz said on Twitter she experienced "gaslighting, lying, neglect
>>>> of misconduct reports, threatening behavior in meetings, lack of inclusion,
>>>> lack of recognition, from mid and upper management".[2]
>>>>
>>>> Does this inspire anyone with confidence?
>>>>
>>>> Official WMF communications meanwhile always sound cheery and upbeat.
>>>>
>>>> Shani's post introducing this thread is a case in point. It leaves me
>>>> ill at ease because of the things it elides, the way it tries to erase
>>>> disputes.
>>>>
>>>> Shani (or whoever else drafted these passages for the board) refers *three
>>>> times* to how

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Board statement endorsing community voting on the enforcement guidelines for Universal code of Conduct (UCoC)

[Philippe Beaudette]

 directed by management to participate, and are
>>>> not directed to vote one way or another, I do not see how they (or the
>>>> community, for that matter) can trust that this is a free and secret ballot
>>>> for them, unless the process is administered outside the WMF.
>>>>
>>>> Could you say something about this?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Andreas
>>>> ___
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>>>
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-- 
Philippe Beaudette
phili...@beaudette.me
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Good day,

This is a notice that the 2020 annual activity report of the Wikimedians of
North American Indigenous Languages User Group was posted on Meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_North_American_Indigenous_Languages_User_Group/Reports/2020

Please do not hesitate to reach me if you have any questions, comments or
suggestions.

Thanks,

User:Amqui
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing 'Wiki for X'

[Philippe Beaudette]

I have hesitations.  First of all, “for” implies “in support of”.
Therefore, wiki for COVID-19 could be read as “wiki in support of
covid-19”, which I don’t believe is the message you are trying to convey.

Thats why the “loves” works so well. May I ask why you think we need a new
system for naming conventions here?

Philippe

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:57 AM Tulsi Bhagat 
wrote:

> Hello,
> Greetings!
>
> I hope you're doing well. I would like to introduce 'Wiki for X', a
> new general format for naming various sorts of Wikimedia community events
> and outreach campaigns; For instance, we have 'Wiki Loves X' as such 'Wiki
> for X', where X is whatever the coordinators wish to call the campaign.
> This is because i believe change is necessary. I hope we can create some
> brand new impactful ideas for outreach campaigns across the globe with this
> new general format.
>
> With regard to, I've organized Wiki For COVID-19
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_For_COVID-19> on Jun 01-Sep 30 2020
> and I see there's another event WikiForHumanRights
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiForHumanRights> starting on
> April 15-March 15 2021 to celebrate Earth Day.
>
> Can we please give continuity to this new general format? I really
> appreciate your input and opinions on this. Thank you for your
> consideration!
>
> Kind regards,
> Tulsi
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The Wikimedia Enterprise API project

[Philippe Beaudette]

inics
>>
>> Moreover, we would be very happy to accept any invitation to attend an
>> existing group call that would like to discuss this topic (e.g.  an
>> affiliate’s members’ meeting).
>>
>>
>> On behalf of the Wikimedia Enterprise team,
>>
>> Peace, Love & Metadata
>> -- Liam Wyatt [Wittylama], Wikimedia Enterprise project community liaison.
>>
>> [0]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
>>
>> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/FAQ
>>
>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise/Principles
>>
>> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Enterprise
>>
>> *Liam Wyatt [Wittylama]*
>> WikiCite <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiCite> Program Manager & 
>> Wikimedia
>> Enterprise <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Okapi> Community Liaison
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia España has been recognized as a charity in Spain

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Congratulations to Wikimedia Espana! I know how much work it is since I did
it for Wikimedia Canada, and we got recognized as a charity by the Canadian
Government on June 2020.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Wikimedia Canada


On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 6:14 AM Santiago Navarro <
santiagonava...@wikimedia.es> wrote:

> Hello. I have the pleasure to inform that last Friday, 19th February
> 2021, Wikimedia España was recognized as a charity (entidad de utilidad
> pública) in Spain by the Ministry of the Interior and it was published
> at the Boletín Oficial del Estado (Official State Gazette). This is a
> recognition of the hard work the association has been doing last 10
> years in Spain. To be recognized, it has been a long process, and we
> were waiting for an answer for this application since the end of 2019. I
> want to say thanks to all people who worked to achieve that.
>
> Here you have a short entry in our website about that:
>
> https://www.wikimedia.es/2021/02/19/wikimedia-espana-declarada-entidad-de-utilidad-publica/
> Here the text of the Boletín Oficial del Estado:
> https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php?id=BOE-A-2021-2626
>
> --
> Santiago Navarro Sanz
> Presidente
> Wikimedia España
> www.wikimedia.es
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

[Philippe Beaudette]

I would also like to add a bit of historical context.  Many years ago, when
I worked at the WMF, we were using a FLOSS survey tool (I don't recall
which).  We were fairly dependent on it, when one day someone discovered
that it was vulnerable to sql injection attacks and Tim Starling (I
believe) rightly killed it on our servers. Shortly after that, we moved
toward using a non-free tool that was safer and more robust.  I dont recall
that the two events were connected, but I would be surprised if they
weren't.

Tim did the right thing then, even though it meant that we were moved off a
FLOSS solution.  Sometimes "Free" just isn't equal, or better.  Sometimes
it's an actual honest-to-god security risk and there are reasons why
WMF's staff aren't using a free alternative to a proprietary tool.  Did
anyone ask?

Philippe

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 12:13 AM Risker  wrote:

> To clarify to anyone who doesn't want to read the actual proposal, which
> Fae did not repeat here:
>
> *Proposal*
>
> It is proposed that on Wikimedia Commons that there must be no promotion
> of surveys or questionnaires which rely on third party sites and closed
> source tools, such as Google Forms. This should be interpreted as a ban
> against engaging volunteers by mass messaging, use of banners or posts on
> noticeboards.
> *Recommended consequential action*
>
> Banners and posts which go against this proposal may be removed by anyone.
>
> Posting account(s) may be blocked or have group rights removed at the
> discretion of administrators, such as all rights that enable mass
> messaging. In a persistent case, blocks and rights removal may apply to all
> accounts of the person responsible. A rationale of doing their job as
> part of being a WMF employee is not considered an exemption.
>
>
> Nowthis applies to everyone who posts about a survey at Wikimedia
> Commons, as this proposal is strictly related to Commons. It is not a
> global proposal.  However, it would apply to researchers, to WMF staff, to
> anyone who uses closed-sourced tools.  There is no suggestion at all about
> suitable alternative tools.  In fact, there is a severe dearth of quality
> open source tools.  Researchers may be bound by their facilities to use
> certain types of tools.
>
> Surveys and questionnaires are always voluntary. There's some
> responsibility on the part of the user to read the privacy statements and
> use of information statements that are normally mandatory for any
> legitimate surveys.  More than once I've started to participate in a survey
> and decided it was asking questions I didn't want to answer, and just never
> saved them.
>
>
> I think it would also be helpful if someone from WMF Technical could take
> the time to discuss with the broader community what arrangements have been
> made in their contract with Google to ensure that the information on those
> documents (of whatever nature) are not in fact accessible to Google for
> their data gathering or any other purposes.  There is, of course, a certain
> irony that three of the four people who have commented on this thread so
> far all have Gmail email addresses.
>
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 00:24, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
>> I agree with Fae's proposal if we are using tools that exclude community
>> members out of safety and privacy concerns then we arent fulfilling the
>> equity goals. I also recognise that alternatives need to be available but
>> with no incentive for them to be used then there is no development of such
>> tools, or improvements to their functionality. Faes proposal is putting the
>> WMF on notice that there are steps we need to take to ensure equity,
>> safety, and privacy in participation.
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 09:08, Łukasz Garczewski <
>> lukasz.garczew...@wikimedia.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> With respect, Fae, if you're going to propose banning an existing
>>> solution, it is on you to propose a suitable alternative or at least a
>>> process to find it before the ban takes effect.
>>>
>>> I write this as a signatory of Free Software Foundation Europe's Public
>>> Money? Public Code open letter <https://publiccode.eu/openletter/>. I
>>> am wholeheartedly a proponent of open source software.
>>>
>>> At the same time, I am a firm believer in using the best available tool
>>> for the job.
>>>
>>> Our mission is too important to hold ourselves back at every step due to
>>> a noble but often unrealistic wish to use open source solutions for
>>> everything we do.
>>>
>>> Last year, because of my drive to use proper open source solutions, WMPL
>>> wasted hours and hours o

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish! / Stepping down April 15

[Philippe Beaudette]

Katherine,

The WMF will be less without you in it. One of the things that made me
comfortable with my own departure so many years ago was the certain
knowledge that you would keep the wheels on and keep the WMF pointed in the
right direction.  But I know you must be exhausted, and drained, so it’s
only right for you to now take some time to refocus and figure out where
next to apply your formidable talents to make the world a better place.

I’m very proud to call you a friend.

Philippe

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 12:37 PM Brad Patrick  wrote:

> Congratulations on a remarkable run! Good luck with the transition and
> we’ll be watching what happens next!
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Brad Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Wikimedia-l  on behalf
> of Katherine Maher 
> *Reply-To: *Wikimedia Mailing List 
> *Date: *Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 12:48 PM
> *To: *Wikimedia Mailing List 
> *Subject: *[Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish! / Stepping down April 15
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
> Earlier today, I announced to my colleagues at the Wikimedia Foundation my
> intention to step down as CEO later this spring. April 15th will be my last
> day, marking my seven-year anniversary with the Foundation and the
> movement. This was not an easy decision, but it is the right one. For now,
> I want to share with you why I’m moving on, and what comes next. I’ll save
> the customary email with deeper reflections, memories, and thanks for later
> this spring!
>
>
> In some ways, this was the easiest hard decision I’ve ever made. It’s
> never exactly a good time to step away -- transitions always have some
> rough edges -- but it’s always best to do so when the organization is
> strong, and before you’ve overstayed your welcome. The movement is in a
> good, strong place. Our communities are growing, our readership is too. Our
> 20th birthday, the launch of our Universal Code of Conduct, and the
> movement strategy recommendations are all milestone moments of solidity and
> strength. I have great hopes and confidence in the upcoming plans for
> strategy implementation, particularly the work on the movement charter and
> interim global council. We are healthy and thriving.
>
>
> While we will always have more work to do to become the Wikimedia that we
> want to be, our movement and our organization is in a phase of renewal and
> regeneration. We have deepened our practices of consultation,
> collaboration, and inclusion that will be the foundation of the next decade
> of our work. We have a deep and stable financial position that will help us
> grow and protect us from any storm, and the trust in our projects has never
> been higher. Our communities are poised to take on deeper responsibilities
> of governance, accountability, and leadership, populating a rich,
> representative, and leaderful movement for free knowledge.
>
> The Foundation is also strong, and filled with passionate, values-aligned
> leaders at every level of the organization, deeply committed to the work of
> our movement and mission. Although we don’t always all perfectly agree on
> absolutely everything, we are working more openly and cooperatively with
> our movement than ever before. Collaborative strategic planning,
> sustainable programs to support technical communities and tooling,
> co-development and consultation on transformative new experiences welcoming
> newcomers, cooperative partnerships on public health data, bibliographic
> data, and human rights data -- all of these are signals of much great work
> to come. Even difficult topics, such as brand and movement governance,
> continue to bring people together in nothing less than feisty commitment.
>
>
> Together, we have rich resources of brilliant people, deep passion, and
> compassion. We are making progress on some of our greatest challenges, from
> editor and readership growth, technical debt, representation and
> participation, safety and knowledge equity. I am proud of what we’ve done
> together and grateful for all the ways in which this movement has made my
> life immeasurably richer: friendships that will last a lifetime,
> intellectual curiosity and kinship, and so many memories of *so much
> dancing*, from Accra to Berlin to Chandigarh.
>
> As for me, I’m going to take a break, and a research fellowship, as a
> place to think about what’s next. It’s hard to think about your future when
> you’re fully in your present, and for the past seven years, I’ve been fully
> present for this movement. But as I look around, I see global challenges
> such as polarization, inequality, and climate change, as well as
> opportunities for generational renewal and optimism. As a Wikimedian, I
> lean toward optimism, and plan to apply myself in that directio

[Wikimedia-l] New Board of Wikimedia Canada // Nouveau conseil d'administration de Wikimédia Canada

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

(Le français suit)

Last Saturday, Wikimedia Canada held its Annual General Meeting. Thanks to
all the members who participated. We are welcoming two new Board members:
Catherine Bernier, involved with the GLAM-Wiki projects with Bibliothèque
et Archives nationales du Québec (BAnQ), and Thérèse Ottawa, referent of
the WikiClub Metapeckeka (the WikiClub of the Atikamekw Community of
Manawan) and very dedicated in the project to develop the Wikipetcia
Atikamekw Nehiromowin (the Wikipedia in Atikamekw language). Benoit Rochon,
Ha-Loan Phan, and Michael David Miller were re-elected to the Board.

Wikimedia Canada is proud that its Board of Directors is still composed of
a majority of women and to welcome a member of the Atikamekw First Nation
as a director, as well as maintaining a representation from the LGBTQ+
community. We are sure that this will help us to continue and further our
efforts in terms of inclusiveness and diversity.


(Version française)

Samedi dernier, Wikimédia Canada a tenu son assemblée générale annuelle.
Merci à tou(te)s les membres qui ont participé. Nous souhaitons la
bienvenue à deux nouvelles membres du conseil d'administration : Catherine
Bernier, impliquée avec les projets GLAM-Wiki avec Bibliothèque et Archives
nationales du Québec (BAnQ), et Thérèse Ottawa, référente du WikiClub
Metapeckeka (le WikiClub de la Communauté Atikamekw de Manawan) et très
dévouée au projet de création de la Wikipetcia Atikamekw Nehiromowin (la
Wikipédia en langue atikamekw). Benoit Rochon, Ha-Loan Phan et Michael
David Miller ont été ré-élu(e)s au conseil d'administration.

Wikimédia Canada est fier que son conseil d'administration continue d'être
composé d'une majorité de femmes et d'acceuillir une membre de la Première
Nation Atikamekw comme administratice, en plus de conserver une
représentation de la communauté LGBTQ+. Nous sommes convaincu(e)s que cela
va nous permettre de continuer et de renforcer nos efforts en termes
d'inclusion et de diversité.



Jean-Philippe Béland

--
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535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3
https://ca.wikimedia.org
i...@wikimedia.ca
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FY1920 Fundraising Report

[Philippe Beaudette]

Pats, thank you for this.  It's a wonderful report.  (I commend it to the
full list to look at.  Fascinating).

I flashed back to years ago, when Megan and Zack (Exley) and I stood in the
middle of the large empty 6th floor of the old headquarters and wondered
how the heck we were gonna come up with $16Million. I believe Megan's
catchphrase that year was "There's NO CRYING IN FUNDRAISING!" It's
fantastic to see the way that the fundraising team has grown and
developed.  You and your team are to be congratulated!

Thanks for raising the money to keep the lights on.

Philippe

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 11:38 AM Patricia Pena  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
>
> We have just completed and published our annual report that summarises
> fundraising activities for the financial year covering July 1, 2019 - June
> 30, 2020. Wikipedia is supported by people — people around the world who
> read knowledge on the site, editors who contribute their time to add and
> improve articles with up-to-date information, and donors who chip in to
> keep Wikipedia thriving. We are proud to present our 2019-2020 Fundraising
> Report <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2019-20_Report> and
> share insights into how the Wikimedia Foundation earns revenue to sustain
> the Wikimedia projects. Thank you to everyone who supports our mission to
> ensure that everyone, everywhere, can share in and access free knowledge.
>
>
> Long term financial sustainability is at the core of our department’s
> activities, an importance that holds further weight given the ongoing
> challenges faced globally. The report highlights the importance of growing
> support to the endowment and notes the ongoing focus on our monthly giving
> donor program.
>
>
> A huge thanks to all those across the Wikimedia Foundation, affiliates, and
> volunteers, who have contributed to the success of this year's fundraiser.
> Without that support, we wouldn’t be able to deliver the resources needed
> for the movement to fulfill and achieve its mission. I'd also like to thank
> everyone who contributed and collaborated on this report: Online
> Fundraising, Major Gifts & Endowment, Fundraising Operations, Donor
> Services, Fundraising Tech, Legal, Communications, Finance, Product
> Analytics and more! Special thanks to Runjini Murthy for project managing
> this entire effort.
>
>
> We welcome your feedback and questions on the talk page.
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/2019-20_Report> [1]
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Pats
>
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/2019-20_Report
> --
> *Pats Pena (she/her) *
> Director, Online Fundraising I Wikimedia Foundation
> 1 Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94104
> pp...@wikimedia.org I +1 (415) 816 3349
>
>
> *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate.
> <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
>
>
> Please Note: If I am emailing after hours or on the weekend, it's because
> Wikimedia allows me an awesome flexible schedule. Please do not respond
> until reasonable business hours in your timezone, unless of course I am
> shouting for help ;-)
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Good day all,

This email is to announce that we have finally produced our overdue 2019
Annual Report on Meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_North_American_Indigenous_Languages_User_Group/Reports/2019
.

Do not hesitate if you have any questions or suggestions.

Thanks,

JP Béland
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Writing Wikimedia's history [Re: Institutional memory @WMF]

[Philippe Beaudette]

Adam writes:

“The Wikimedia-pedia [1] is a treasure, thank you Philippe for linking!  
I'd love to see this content migrated to a public wiki, where maybe it 
can come to life again.”

Not-terribly-secretly, Eugene and I had always hoped that this section of the 
deliverables would continue to be updated and would then be useful for the next 
strategy design process. Obviously, once the wiki was locked, that ceased to be 
an option without moving/transcluding/transmogrifying/something-scary-sounding 
the content somewhere else. I’ve always thought that was a great loss.

Philippe



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Institutional memory @ WMF

[Philippe Beaudette]

Credit for that goes to the inestimable Eugene Eric Kim and the hundreds of 
Wikimedians who contributed to it. It still exists I believe, at 
strategy.wikimedia.org. 

Regards,
pb 

Philippe Beaudette
philippe.beaude...@icloud.com


> On Aug 25, 2020, at 7:32 PM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Philippe. Funny, the minute I hit "send" I thought of you -- I don't
> know whether or not it was your idea originally, but the "Wikimedia-Pedia"
> that was created during the 2010 Strategic Planning process was probably
> the closest thing I've seen to an organized effort to do this.
> 
> -Pete
> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 5:25 PM Philippe Beaudette 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Pete, one thing that I loved about my time at reddit was the existence of
>> a subreddit called “r/museumofreddit”. It was mandatory reading for every
>> new hire on my team and every other team I could convince and it was
>> critical to onboarding me.
>> 
>> It lived to serve just the documentary process that you mention.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> pb
>> 
>> Philippe Beaudette
>> 
>>>> On Aug 25, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've thought about institutional memory quite a lot since I stopped
>> working
>>> at WMF in 2011. A few points I think are worth considering:
>>> 
>>>  1. Often, institutional memory is measured in terms of
>>>  staff/executive/board turnover; while there has indeed been a very high
>>>  rate of turnover at times, I would argue that another factor (see #2)
>> is
>>>  actually more important.
>>>  2. An organization can do a great deal, with a well-planned top-down
>>>  approach, to ensure institutional memory is *generated* and *retained*
>> even
>>>  if there's a lot of turnover.
>>>  3. The main thing that can be done is to ensure that significant events
>>>  are *debriefed and summarized *("documented") in a way that is clearly
>>>  and concisely articulated, supported by evidence and logic, and fair to
>>>  various good faith perspectives.
>>>  4. We might call that an "encyclopedic" approach. (The skills required
>>>  are almost exactly the skills that tend to be cultivated in our
>> Wikipedia
>>>  volunteer community, as codified in its policies and norms, and learned
>>>  through practice by its core volunteers.)
>>>  5. The Wikimedia Foundation has not historically done very much in
>> terms
>>>  of thorough encyclopedic documentation of important events in its
>> history.
>>>  There have been exceptions, and I believe that where it has been done
>> and
>>>  done well, much good has come of it. The best example of this, in my
>>>  opinion, is the Assessment of Belfer Center Wikipedian in Residence
>>>  program
>>>  <
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Assessment_of_Belfer_Center_Wikipedian_in_Residence_program
>>> .
>>>  This was initiated by then-Executive Director Sue Gardner and her
>> deputy
>>>  Erik Möller, who participated actively in it. Specific programmatic
>>>  improvements in the Grants department were a direct outcome.
>>>  6. But many events have never been documented with
>>>  guidance/resourcing/participation by the WMF. It's worthwhile to
>> debrief
>>>  and summarize both positive and negative experiences.
>>>  7. If you don't document positive outcomes, WMF staff may have
>>>  difficulty replicating that success, because the experience is not
>> widely
>>>  understood within the WMF (or in the community, etc.) The example
>> foremost
>>>  in my mind is the 2012 rewrite of the Terms of Use, overseen by
>>>  then-General Counsel Geoff Brigham. He made changes to his process to
>>>  leverage the knowledge and experience within the volunteer community,
>> and
>>>  ended up with a document substantially superior to his initial draft,
>> and
>>>  that also had the buy-in of many volunteers whose fingerprints were on
>> the
>>>  final document. (I hope to write this up myself some day; if I ever get
>>>  around to it, it'll be linked here
>>>  <
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Peteforsyth/governance#Organizational_governance
>>> 
>>>  .
>>>  8. If you don't summarize/debrief negative outcomes, you don't learn in
>>>  the moment what went wrong (so as to avoid repeating the mistakes),
>> and you
>>>  leave anybody impacted by the problems (e.g. vol

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Institutional memory @ WMF

[Philippe Beaudette]

Pete, one thing that I loved about my time at reddit was the existence of a 
subreddit called “r/museumofreddit”. It was mandatory reading for every new 
hire on my team and every other team I could convince and it was critical to 
onboarding me. 

It lived to serve just the documentary process that you mention.

Regards,
pb 

Philippe Beaudette

> On Aug 25, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:
> 
> I've thought about institutional memory quite a lot since I stopped working
> at WMF in 2011. A few points I think are worth considering:
> 
>   1. Often, institutional memory is measured in terms of
>   staff/executive/board turnover; while there has indeed been a very high
>   rate of turnover at times, I would argue that another factor (see #2) is
>   actually more important.
>   2. An organization can do a great deal, with a well-planned top-down
>   approach, to ensure institutional memory is *generated* and *retained* even
>   if there's a lot of turnover.
>   3. The main thing that can be done is to ensure that significant events
>   are *debriefed and summarized *("documented") in a way that is clearly
>   and concisely articulated, supported by evidence and logic, and fair to
>   various good faith perspectives.
>   4. We might call that an "encyclopedic" approach. (The skills required
>   are almost exactly the skills that tend to be cultivated in our Wikipedia
>   volunteer community, as codified in its policies and norms, and learned
>   through practice by its core volunteers.)
>   5. The Wikimedia Foundation has not historically done very much in terms
>   of thorough encyclopedic documentation of important events in its history.
>   There have been exceptions, and I believe that where it has been done and
>   done well, much good has come of it. The best example of this, in my
>   opinion, is the Assessment of Belfer Center Wikipedian in Residence
>   program
>   
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Assessment_of_Belfer_Center_Wikipedian_in_Residence_program>.
>   This was initiated by then-Executive Director Sue Gardner and her deputy
>   Erik Möller, who participated actively in it. Specific programmatic
>   improvements in the Grants department were a direct outcome.
>   6. But many events have never been documented with
>   guidance/resourcing/participation by the WMF. It's worthwhile to debrief
>   and summarize both positive and negative experiences.
>   7. If you don't document positive outcomes, WMF staff may have
>   difficulty replicating that success, because the experience is not widely
>   understood within the WMF (or in the community, etc.) The example foremost
>   in my mind is the 2012 rewrite of the Terms of Use, overseen by
>   then-General Counsel Geoff Brigham. He made changes to his process to
>   leverage the knowledge and experience within the volunteer community, and
>   ended up with a document substantially superior to his initial draft, and
>   that also had the buy-in of many volunteers whose fingerprints were on the
>   final document. (I hope to write this up myself some day; if I ever get
>   around to it, it'll be linked here
>   
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Peteforsyth/governance#Organizational_governance>
>   .
>   8. If you don't summarize/debrief negative outcomes, you don't learn in
>   the moment what went wrong (so as to avoid repeating the mistakes), and you
>   leave anybody impacted by the problems (e.g. volunteers) with the
>   impression that you don't care. The example I think of is Superprotect
>   <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect>. As the author of a
>   diplomatic letter, signed by more than 1000 people, making straightforward
>   requests of the WMF, I am not too bothered that they didn't do what we
>   requested; but I am very bothered that they never acknowledged the
>   existence of the letter, nor stated which parts of it they agreed/disagreed
>   with, or what motivated the subsequent decisions they did make. (These are
>   things they could still do, even several years later, that would still make
>   a difference.)
>   9. As any seasoned Wikipedia writer/editor knows, there is an important
>   difference between writing that aims first and foremost to be useful and
>   informative ("encyclopedic"), vs. writing that aims first and foremost to
>   present an organization in a good light, or to advance an agenda ("public
>   relations" or "communications" for an organization). People who excel at
>   one of those types of writing are not always great at doing the other kind;
>   the two types of writing require a different mindset.
>   10. The kind of writing required to summarize and debrief
>   important events, to create and preserve instituti

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Canada Annual Report 2019 // Rapport annuel 2019 de Wikimédia Canada

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

(Le français suit)

Good day all,

I am pleased to share that Wikimedia Canada has published its Annual Report
2019.

It is available on Wikimedia Commons:
- in English:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMCA_Annual_Report_2019.pdf
- in French:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMCA_Rapport_annuel_2019.pdf

For those who prefer, there is also a wiki version available:
https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Reports/2019 (you need to be logged with your
Wikimedia account in order to switch the language to French on the wiki).

Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any comments or questions.

Thank you all,


(Version française)

Bonjour à toutes et à tous,

J'ai le plaisir de vous annoncer que Wikimédia Canada a publié son Rapport
annuel 2019.

Celui-ci est disponible sur Wikimedia Commons :
- en anglais :
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMCA_Annual_Report_2019.pdf
- en français :
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMCA_Rapport_annuel_2019.pdf

Pour celles et ceux qui le préfèrent, il y a également une version wiki
disponible : https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Reports/2019 (vous devez être
enregistré(e) avec votre compte Wikimédia afin de pouvoir changer la langue
au français sur le wiki).

N'hésitez pas à me contacter si vous avez des commentaires ou des questions.

Merci à toutes et à tous,


Jean-Philippe Béland
Wikimedia Canada / Wikimédia Canada
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France new Board members

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Merci et félicitations aux nouveaux membres du conseil d'administration !

Jean-Philippe Béland
Wikimédia Canada


On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 2:15 PM Nadine Le Lirzin via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> On November 16th, Wikimédia France held its annual General
> Assembly and partialy renewed its Board. We are particularly glad and
> proud of announcing that for the first time our chapter has reserved a
> seat for a candidate appointed by the community.
>
> Here is a brief
> presentation of the newly elected Board members, including the
> community-appointed seat ratified by the Assembly:
>
> * Pascale
> Camus-Walter, elected for 2 years: On Wikipedia since 2011, Pascale is a
> Wikimédia France member since 2015.
>
> * Jonathan Mouton, elected for 3
> years: Registered on Wikipedia in 2007, Jonathan is the one elected as a
> Board member by the community.
>
> * Diane Ranville, elected for 3 years:
> Wikimedian from Grenoble, Diane is committed in Wikimédia France since
> 2017.
>
> * Carole Renard, elected for 3 years: Feminist, Wikimedian
> since 2017, Carole is contributing on Wikipedia, Commons, Wikidata and
> Wikisource.
>
> * Benoit Soubeyran, elected for 2 years: Wikimedian since
> 2012, Benoit has been a librarian and a blogger for several years.
>
> This
> brings the number of women on our Board to 4 on a total of 12 members
> (Improvement in progress).
>
> The other Board members remain unchanged,
> as well as the executive bureau:
>
> * Pierre-Yves Beaudouin: President,
> whose turn will end in 1 year.
>
> * Benoît Deshayes: whose turn will end
> in 1 year.
>
> * Julien Gardet: reelected for 3 years.
>
> * Roger Gotlib:
> whose turn will end in 1 year.
>
> * Nadine Le Lirzin: Secretary, whose
> turn will end in 1 year.
>
> * Pascal Radigue: Treasurer, whose turn will
> end in 1 year.
>
> * Willie Robert: Vice-President, whose turn will end
> in 1 year.
>
> We would like to thank Marin Dubroca-Voisin, Pierre-Selim
> Huard, Pierre-Antoine Le Page, Lucas Lévêque and Hélène Masson, whose
> turns just came to an end, for having worked with us at restoring the
> good health of the Association. We know you're still around :)
>
> For the
> Board of Wikimédia France,
> Nadine Le Lirzin, Secretary
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[Wikimedia-l] Announcement about Wikimedia Canada / Annonce au sujet de Wikimédia Canada

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

(La version française suit.)

Good day all,

A few weeks ago, I announced the new composition of the Board of Directors
of Wikimedia Canada. Now, I would like to introduce its new Executive
Committee, including a new President, that was nominated at the last Board
meeting on November 4th.

The new Executive Committee of Wikimedia Canada is composed of:
- President: Lëa-Kim Châteauneuf (User:Lea-Kim
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lea-Kim>)
- Vice President: Michael David Miller (User:BiblioQC
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:BiblioQC>)
- Secretary: Amber Berson (User:13ab37
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:13ab37>)
- Treasurer: Guillaume Lafrance (User:Glafrance
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Glafrance>)

Our new President, Lëa-Kim, is a librarian at the Direction des
bibliothèques of Montreal City and a long-time Wikimedian. She is a member
of the Board of Directors since 2017 and was the Vice President for the
last year.

She will announce her vision and her priorities for Wikimedia Canada in the
next few days on the main page of WMCA's wiki [1]. She is currently in
Cambridge, Massachusetts participating in the WikiConference North America
[2].

Until then, here are the main priority axes of Wikimedia Canada for the
upcoming year:
- Developing the Wikimedia projects in the indigenous languages of Canada,
and improving content on Wikimedia projects about the indigenous peoples of
Canada.
- Increasing the diversity of contributors to free knowledge from Canada,
especially working towards reducing the gender gap on Wikimedia projects,
both in terms of contributors and content.
- Continuing to maintain a high level of corporate maturity and
professionalism within Wikimedia Canada, and obtaining the charity status
with the federal government in order to diversify our revenue streams.
- Expanding the activities of Wikimedia Canada across the country.

If you have any questions about Wikimedia Canada, do not hesitate to
contact me, to use our main talk page [3], or to join our general mailing
list [4].

Thanks,


(Version française)

Bonjour à toutes et à tous,

Il y a quelques semaines, je vous ai annoncé la composition du nouveau
conseil d'administration de Wikimédia Canada. Maintenant, j'aimerais vous
présenter son nouveau comité directeur, incluant sa nouvelle présidente,
qui a été nommé lors de la dernière réunion du conseil d'administration le
4 novembre.

Le nouveau comité directeur de Wikimédia Canada est composé de :
- Présidente : Lëa-Kim Châteauneuf (Utilisatrice:Lea-Kim
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lea-Kim>)
- Vice-président : Michael David Miller (Utilisateur:BiblioQC
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:BiblioQC>)
- Secrétaire : Amber Berson (Utilisatrice:13ab37
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:13ab37>)
- Trésorier : Guillaume Lafrance (Utilisateur:Glafrance
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Glafrance>)

Notre nouvelle présidente, Lëa-Kim, est une bibliothécaire de la Direction
des bibliothèques de la ville de Montréal et une Wikimédienne de longue
date. Elle est membre du conseil d'administration depuis 2017 et était la
vice-présidente depuis la dernière année.

Elle annoncera sa vision et ses priorités pour Wikimédia Canada au cours
des prochains jours sur la page principale du wiki de WMCA [1]. Elle est
présentement à Cambridge (Massachusetts) pour participer à la
WikiConférence nord-américaine [2].

Jusque là, voici les principales axes prioritaires de Wikimédia Canada pour
l'année à venir :
- Développer les projets Wikimédia en langues autochtones du Canada et
améliorer le contenu des projets Wikimédia au sujet des peuples autochtones
du Canada.
- Accroître la diversité des contributrices et des contributeurs au savoir
libre provenant du Canada avec un focus particulier pour réduire le fossé
des genres sur les projets Wikimédia, tant en termes de contributrices que
de contenu.
- Continuer à maintenir un haut niveau de maturité corporative et de
professionnalisme au sein de Wikimédia Canada et obtenir le statut de
bienfaisance auprès du gouvernement fédéral afin de diversifier nos sources
de revenus.
- Étendre les activités de Wikimédia Canada à travers tout le pays.

Si vous avez des questions au sujet de Wikimédia Canada, n'hésitez pas à me
contacter, à utiliser notre page de discussion principale [3] ou à
rejoindre notre liste de diffusion générale [4].

Merci,


Jean-Philippe Béland
Wikimedia Canada / Wikimédia Canada


[1] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
[2] https://wikiconference.org/wiki/2019/Main_Page
[3] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_talk:Discussions
[4] https://discussions.wikimedia.ca/lists/listinfo/general
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] New Board of Wikimedia Canada

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Thank you Alex.

Indeed we also have a majority of librarians on our Board with 5 of them.

JP

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 5:00 PM Alex Stinson  wrote:

>  Congratulations! Also really exciting to see a lot of folks who have come
> through Library and GLAM outreach joining the board.
>
> Alex
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 3:35 PM Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>
>> Good day all,
>>
>> Wikimedia Canada held its Annual General Meeting 2019 [1] on 19 October in
>> Montreal, Quebec with online participation as well.
>>
>> We would like to introduce you 4 newly elected Board members and one
>> re-elected Board member:
>> - Amber Berson
>> - Jean-Michel Lapointe
>> - Lëa-Kim Chateauneuf
>> - Sarah Severson
>> - Stacy Allison-Cassin
>>
>> The following 3 Board members are continuing their 2-years terms until
>> next
>> year:
>> - Benoit Rochon
>> - Ha-Loan Phan
>> - Michael David Miller
>>
>> Wikimedia Canada is proud to have a majority of women on its Board. We
>> believe that we are the only Wikimedia chapter in this situation, please
>> correct me if I'm wrong. We are also happy to welcome a member of the
>> Board
>> from Western Canada. We are convinced that this will help us to increase
>> the diversity of contributors on Wikimedia projects from Canada,
>> especially
>> in regards to the gender gap, and to expand Wikimedia Canada's activities
>> and reach across all of Canada.
>>
>> The Board will elect its new Executive Committee [2], including its
>> President, at its next meeting on 4 November 2019.
>>
>> If you have any questions about Wikimedia Canada, do not hesitate to use
>> the main talk page on our wiki [3] or to send me an email directly.
>>
>> Wikimedia Canada would like to thank all members that participated at the
>> AGM and all the volunteers of the Wikimedia movement in Canada for their
>> contributions. If you would like to stay updated about Wikimedia Canada,
>> please join our mailing list [4] or visit our wiki [5].
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>>
>> Institutional Advancement Manager, Wikimedia Canada
>>
>>
>> [1] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2019
>> [2] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Executive_Committee
>> [3] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_talk:Discussions
>> [4] https://discussions.wikimedia.ca/lists/listinfo/general
>> [5] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
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>
>
>
> --
> Alex Stinson
> Senior Program Strategist
> Wikimedia Foundation
> Twitter:@glamwiki/@sadads
>
> Learn more about how the communities behind Wikipedia, Wikidata and other
> Wikimedia projects partner with cultural heritage organizations:
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM
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> affilia...@lists.wikimedia.org
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Haiti

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Félicitations au groupe d'utilisateurs de Haïti !

Jean-Philippe Béland
Wikimédia Canada


On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 12:14 PM Bobby Shabangu 
wrote:

> Congratulations to Haiti Wikimedia UG. Looking forward to seeing great
> work from that part of the world.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bobby Shabangu
>
> On 20/10/2019, Kirill Lokshin  wrote:
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
> > [1] Wikimedia Community User Group Haiti [2] as a Wikimedia User Group.
> The
> > group aims to strengthen Haiti's presence across the Wikimedia projects
> by
> > developing Wikipedia in Haitian Creole, training contributors throughout
> > the country, and working to raise awareness among stakeholders and
> > institutions in Haiti.
> >
> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recognition_of_Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Haiti
> > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wikimedia_User_Group_Haïti
> > ___
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>
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[Wikimedia-l] New Board of Wikimedia Canada

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Good day all,

Wikimedia Canada held its Annual General Meeting 2019 [1] on 19 October in
Montreal, Quebec with online participation as well.

We would like to introduce you 4 newly elected Board members and one
re-elected Board member:
- Amber Berson
- Jean-Michel Lapointe
- Lëa-Kim Chateauneuf
- Sarah Severson
- Stacy Allison-Cassin

The following 3 Board members are continuing their 2-years terms until next
year:
- Benoit Rochon
- Ha-Loan Phan
- Michael David Miller

Wikimedia Canada is proud to have a majority of women on its Board. We
believe that we are the only Wikimedia chapter in this situation, please
correct me if I'm wrong. We are also happy to welcome a member of the Board
from Western Canada. We are convinced that this will help us to increase
the diversity of contributors on Wikimedia projects from Canada, especially
in regards to the gender gap, and to expand Wikimedia Canada's activities
and reach across all of Canada.

The Board will elect its new Executive Committee [2], including its
President, at its next meeting on 4 November 2019.

If you have any questions about Wikimedia Canada, do not hesitate to use
the main talk page on our wiki [3] or to send me an email directly.

Wikimedia Canada would like to thank all members that participated at the
AGM and all the volunteers of the Wikimedia movement in Canada for their
contributions. If you would like to stay updated about Wikimedia Canada,
please join our mailing list [4] or visit our wiki [5].

Thank you,


Jean-Philippe Béland

Institutional Advancement Manager, Wikimedia Canada


[1] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2019
[2] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Executive_Committee
[3] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_talk:Discussions
[4] https://discussions.wikimedia.ca/lists/listinfo/general
[5] https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2020 will be on August 5-9. Bangkok, Thailand.

[Philippe Beaudette]

Well, if it wasn't BEFORE it surely must be NOW

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:31 AM Samuel Klein  wrote:

> Surely synchronized vandalfighting is in the pipeline for a future Olympic
> lineup!
>
> 
>
> On Tue., Oct. 8, 2019, 1:54 p.m. Kiril Simeonovski, <
> kiril.simeonov...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Roman,
> >
> > Thank you for announcing the dates of Wikimania 2020 and suggesting a
> trip
> > to other East Asian countries, including Japan for the Olympics, but was
> it
> > inevitable to schedule the event during the Olympics?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Kiril
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 18:54 Roman Bustria Jr. 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Wikimedians,
> > >
> > > I am delighted to announce that Wikimania 2020 will happen from 5-9
> > August,
> > > 2020 in Bangkok, Thailand.
> > >
> > > We will announce other details in the upcoming weeks.
> > >
> > > For now, you may start planning your Asian tour iterinary. You may
> > consider
> > > doing a side trip in other ESEAP countries like Myanmar, Cambodia,
> Japan
> > > (Olympic Games), Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Timor Leste, Taiwan,
> > > Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, China, Vietnam, and many others.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Butch Bustria
> > > Wikimedia ESEAP
> > > ___
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> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Welcoming Wikimedia Foundation’s new CTO, Grant Ingersoll

[Philippe Beaudette]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 12:32 PM Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 17:55, Katherine Maher 
> wrote:
>
> > I’m excited to officially welcome Grant Ingersoll as our Chief Technology
> > Officer! Grant
>
> It is UTTERLY OUTRAGEOUS of Katherine to post this...
>
> > In Grant’s own words
>
> > We're adjusting to the empty nest life with our dog Allie (a
> > black lab mix).
>
> ...without linking to at least one cute pic of Allie ;-)
>




 Frankly I am shocked ... shocked! that a woman of Katherine’s obvious
talents must be reminded of this basic pillar of the movement: If you
invoke a cute puppy, you better be prepared to prove it.

Geez, K, have we taught you nothing in the, what, half a decade, that
you’ve been part of this movement?

-philippe

>
> --
Philippe Beaudette
phili...@beaudette.me
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki loves SDGs

[Philippe Beaudette]

Respectfully, my friend, I disagree. I often make silly or ill considered
comments.  I hope those will not be the only data points used to describe
me.

Philippe



On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 2:59 AM Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> Hoi,
> Sorry but when you call my comments flippant, you call me flippant.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 11:06, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 09:24, Gerard Meijssen  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Calling someone "flippant" is a direct attack -
> >
> > Nobody called you flippant. Fæ said "your comments are flippant"
> >
> > Please stop this, now.
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

[Philippe Beaudette]

Todd, I have to tell you, this comment made me absolutely LOL.  All I could
imagine was Sue Gardner (from my WMF days) and Geoff Brigham interrogating
me about my desire to send out a goon squad after, i dunno, Risker and
Newyorkbrad or something.  I could imagine Geoff telling me that I needed
more evidence (as he ALWAYS said) and Sue telling me that this required a
memo first, and I better have budgeted the money in the annual plan.

The image was very vivid for me.

As a Trust and Safety professional, with almost two decades of experience
under my belt, all I can say is this:  I freakin' wish.  Really.




Philippe

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 1:16 PM Todd Allen  wrote:
I think everyone here is clear that no one is literally going to be drug off

> in a white van by a balaclava-wearing goon squad from the WMF and sent to a
> gulag.
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

[Philippe Beaudette]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 4:20 PM Nathan  wrote:

>   Philippe moved on, so the easy solution - put him in charge of
> everything - isn't going to work.



I laughed. Thank you for this. But remember, I was in front of Arbcomm for
a not too dissimilar case, being accused of overreaching and an unhelpful
response and tone (false, true and true, in that order). I learned from my
mistakes. More importantly, I hope (and believe) that the WMF learned from
my mistakes.

The people on the T team are neither dumb nor disconnected. Quite the
opposite. I hired and worked with a couple  of them and know them to be
talented, thoughtful and deliberate. I know Katherine to be the same.

On the basis of that “insider” knowledge - and that is truly all the
insider knowledge that I have here - I trust that there is more here that I
do not and can not know.

I trust the people and the process. I wish I could find a way to share that
trust in such a way that it would be adopted by more. Maybe you have to
live it to develop it,  but these are talented staff making hard decisions.
No doubt they will err some - but it’s not because they didn’t try
everything they know to get it right.

I wish we could put away the pitchforks - and also (on the wmf side) make
ourselves available and open to listening and sharing whatever we can - if
there is anything and try like hell to deescalate this thing.


Or give me time to go buy more popcorn. One or the other.

Philippe



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

[Philippe Beaudette]

Martian,

While it’s not something I could conjure up today, my time at WMF exposed
me to enough things that I could not have imagined prior to seeing them for
myself that I am unwilling to discount that such a situation could exist.

Philippe

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:25 PM Martijn Hoekstra 
wrote:

> Phillipe,
>
> Can you imagine a hypothetical situation where it would have been
> appropriate for this WMF office action to exist though - that is to say,
> not serious enough to ban a user from any other wiki than en. and serious
> enough to take direct action outside of the community?
>
> I sure can't, yet here it happened. That means I also can't really
> disqualify any other points that I can't imagine as surely false. Can you,
> from your personal experience reconcile what happened here good enough, so
> that when you say you can't imagine, that dismisses the issue? Or do you
> maybe also have to suspend your judgement on what probably did or didn't
> happen as you are also in the realm of "can't imagine" already?
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 04:35 Philippe Beaudette 
> wrote:
>
> > Nathan writes:
> >
> > *“Why are WMF staffers so*
> >
> > *deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they feel
> > the*
> > *right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?”*
> >
> >
> > I’ve seen no evidence that this is the case here and would be utterly
> > shocked if a t staff member had indeed banned for saying that.
> >
> > If the situation is anything like what it was when I was at WMF, a ban
> such
> > as this requires multiple levels of review by a couple of different teams
> > (in my time, we would not have considered a ban such as this without sign
> > off from the community and legal teams, for instance). I don’t know if
> the
> > process is the same now but I would be surprised to hear that any single
> > staff member would feel comfortable banning on his or her authority
> alone.
> > Multiple levels of review exist in order to ensure that ban reasons are
> > valid and appropriate.
> >
> > Philippe
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:55 PM Nathan  wrote:
> >
> > > Wow, what a cluster. How does the WMF get themselves into these
> things? I
> > > have ten edits to en.wp since 2018 and even I could have 100% predicted
> > the
> > > entire spectrum, and scale, of the reaction here. Why are WMF staffers
> so
> > > deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they feel
> > the
> > > right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:49 PM Todd Allen 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Amir, yes, ArbCom members must sign the WMF confidentiality agreement
> > for
> > > > nonpublic information (
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_information
> > > > )
> > > > , as must all functionaries (checkuser, oversight, etc.). I was on
> the
> > > > English Wikipedia ArbCom for two years, and it was routine for us to
> > deal
> > > > with sensitive, private information.
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:46 AM Amir Sarabadani  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and things
> > Fram
> > > > has
> > > > > done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see
> how
> > > fast
> > > > > people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I
> > personally,
> > > > > don't know what happened so I neither can support or oppose the
> ban.
> > As
> > > > > simple as that.
> > > > >
> > > > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a
> community
> > > > body
> > > > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things:
> > > > >  - They had signed NDA not to disclose the case
> > > > >  - They are trusted by the community
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but not
> > sure
> > > > > (Does ArbCom NDA'ed?)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Lack of transparency fro

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

[Philippe Beaudette]

Nathan writes:

*“Why are WMF staffers so*

*deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they feel
the*
*right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?”*


I’ve seen no evidence that this is the case here and would be utterly
shocked if a t staff member had indeed banned for saying that.

If the situation is anything like what it was when I was at WMF, a ban such
as this requires multiple levels of review by a couple of different teams
(in my time, we would not have considered a ban such as this without sign
off from the community and legal teams, for instance). I don’t know if the
process is the same now but I would be surprised to hear that any single
staff member would feel comfortable banning on his or her authority alone.
Multiple levels of review exist in order to ensure that ban reasons are
valid and appropriate.

Philippe

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:55 PM Nathan  wrote:

> Wow, what a cluster. How does the WMF get themselves into these things? I
> have ten edits to en.wp since 2018 and even I could have 100% predicted the
> entire spectrum, and scale, of the reaction here. Why are WMF staffers so
> deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they feel the
> right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:49 PM Todd Allen  wrote:
>
> > Amir, yes, ArbCom members must sign the WMF confidentiality agreement for
> > nonpublic information (
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_information
> > )
> > , as must all functionaries (checkuser, oversight, etc.). I was on the
> > English Wikipedia ArbCom for two years, and it was routine for us to deal
> > with sensitive, private information.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:46 AM Amir Sarabadani 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and things Fram
> > has
> > > done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see how
> fast
> > > people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I personally,
> > > don't know what happened so I neither can support or oppose the ban. As
> > > simple as that.
> > >
> > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a community
> > body
> > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things:
> > >  - They had signed NDA not to disclose the case
> > >  - They are trusted by the community
> > >
> > > I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but not sure
> > > (Does ArbCom NDA'ed?)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new.
> > > > I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?) based
> on a
> > > > false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm
> waiting
> > > for
> > > > an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't
> surprise
> > > me
> > > > at all.
> > > > It is very unfortunate that the WMF apparently thrives in this kind
> of
> > > > medieval obscurity, the opposite of the values of the Wikimedia
> > Movement.
> > > > Matter for Roles & Reponsibilities.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Paulo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Benjamin Ikuta  escreveu no dia terça,
> > > 11/06/2019
> > > > à(s) 05:45:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for this.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dismayed by the unilateralism
> > and
> > > > > lack of transparency.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jun 10, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Techman224 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Forwarding to WIkimedia-l since WikiEN-l is relatively dead.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since this message, an Arbcom member (SilkTork) stated that they
> > > > weren't
> > > > > consulted, nor did this action was the result of Arbcom forwarding
> a
> > > > > concern to the office. [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only non-response excuse from the WMF [2] was that "local
> > > > > communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their own
> > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

[Philippe Beaudette]

This. What Risker said. Fae raises a fair point. And while the Foundation
 certainly does not make policy based off of small discussions on mailing
list, it should (and used to) listen to those lists, and use them to aid in
decisions about what policy to make.

I like you a lot Joseph, but I’m afraid your comment here was regrettable.
  Nobody here was suggesting that the foundation make that policy based off
of the small group discussion, whether in a public mailing list or
otherwise. However, a long time valued member of the community was raising
a reasonable question. It deserves a better answer than that.

Respectfully, and with great fondness,
Philippe

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 4:49 PM Risker  wrote:

> Well, I think perhaps Fae's question may be considered more generally.  Fae
> is knowledgeable about the structure of the Wikimedia movement as well as
> the WMF, and I think it might be best to work from the assumption that
> their core question is probably more along the lines of whether (and how)
> the current long-term strategy development process will, in fact, make
> recommendations that are in line with ensuring that there will be (at
> minimum) a publicly accessible archive of the Wikimedia projects.
>
> The movement strategy process is very broad, and  contains a lot of diverse
> ideas about how the movement/WMF/chapters/other entities/projects can be
> improved, maintained, developed and supported.  I'm pretty deep in the
> strategy stuff, and as far as I know, at this point there's no clear path
> to maintaining (or dissolving) any of the existing structures; more to the
> point, there's no guarantee that the final summary recommendations of the
> combined strategy groups will continue to support the current WMF mission
> statement - that is, the part that says " [t]he [Wikimedia] Foundation will
> make and keep useful information from its projects available on the
> internet free of charge, in perpetuity."
>
> I don't think that's really a bad question to ask - in fact, it may be one
> of the more important ones.  I hope I am not presuming too much, but I
> think Fae is saying that this is something that is really important and
> valuable, and that continuity/perpetuation of that particular aspect of the
> mission statement should be a recommendation that gets included in the
> final reports - regardless of which entity assumes responsibility for it or
> who pays for it.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 18:03, Nathan  wrote:
>
> > The Internet Archive, incidentally, already seems to maintain copies of
> > Wikimedia projects. I don't know to what degree of fidelity.
> Additionally,
> > the WMF's core deliverable is already to provide and sustain access to
> its
> > projects. It has an endowment for that purpose already. Other websites
> and
> > media that might have ephemeral access due to their nature as short-term
> > tools need the IA to be preserved, but the WMF's projects seem to occupy
> a
> > different space. It's sort of like asking if the Library of Congress
> needs
> > to invest in some external project to preserve and organize its
> > collections. No, that is its actual raison d'etre.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Philippe Beaudette]

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Philippe Beaudette]

(Hit send too early).To my mind the larger problem is that the content
becomes static over time, Rather than growing and evolving as it does with
many of our more successful Projects.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:25 AM Philippe Beaudette 
wrote:

> Respectfully Disagree. They can formulate questions, coordinate and fact
> check answers... and that’s off the top of my head.
>
> That said I think wikinews is fundamentally not one is our success
> stories, but I don’t agree with what my friend Ziko said there. There are
> many roles for community there.
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:15 AM Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not
>> suitable for collaboration.
>>
>> Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which
>> the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based
>> on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a
>> library.
>>
>> When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she
>> is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in
>> the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do
>> little more.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Ziko
>>
>>
>>
>> Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
>> :
>> >
>> > The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth:
>> >
>> > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
>> > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a
>> direct
>> > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
>> >
>> > [1]
>> >
>> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
>> >
>> > Me too.  In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always
>> done
>> > very well.  It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional,
>> use
>> > for a Wiki.  A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a
>> fine
>> > addition to the ecosystem, imho.  And it is very reasonable to think
>> that
>> > given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill
>> > that spot.
>> >
>> > But a news competitor to traditional news outlets?  Nope, that it isn't.
>> >
>> > Philippe
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
>> > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Andrew
>> > > >
>> > > > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the
>> policies
>> > > that
>> > > > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH)
>> are a
>> > > > poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand,
>> Wikipedia
>> > > is
>> > > > a success as a news-gathering operation.  These seem inconsistent
>> to me.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than
>> primary
>> > > source news gatherers. That’s where the difference lies primarily.
>> > >
>> > > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
>> > > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a
>> direct
>> > > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
>> > >
>> > > [1]
>> > >
>> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way
>> forward is
>> > > to
>> > > > fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia.  Is that right?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia
>> > > editors are already doing a stellar job.
>> > >
>> > > Andrew
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih 
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
>> > > > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language)
>> Wikipedia
>> > > > > seems
>&g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Philippe Beaudette]

Respectfully Disagree. They can formulate questions, coordinate and fact
check answers... and that’s off the top of my head.

That said I think wikinews is fundamentally not one is our success stories,
but I don’t agree with what my friend Ziko said there. There are many roles
for community there.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:15 AM Ziko van Dijk  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not
> suitable for collaboration.
>
> Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which
> the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based
> on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a
> library.
>
> When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she
> is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in
> the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do
> little more.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
> Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
> :
> >
> > The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth:
> >
> > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
> > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
> > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
> >
> > Me too.  In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always done
> > very well.  It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional, use
> > for a Wiki.  A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a fine
> > addition to the ecosystem, imho.  And it is very reasonable to think that
> > given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill
> > that spot.
> >
> > But a news competitor to traditional news outlets?  Nope, that it isn't.
> >
> > Philippe
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
> > > that
> > > > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH)
> are a
> > > > poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand,
> Wikipedia
> > > is
> > > > a success as a news-gathering operation.  These seem inconsistent to
> me.
> > >
> > >
> > > As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than
> primary
> > > source news gatherers. That’s where the difference lies primarily.
> > >
> > > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
> > > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a
> direct
> > > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
> > >
> > >
> > > > However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way
> forward is
> > > to
> > > > fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia.  Is that right?
> > >
> > >
> > > Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia
> > > editors are already doing a stellar job.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > > > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language)
> Wikipedia
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent
> with
> > > its
> > > > > > encyclopediac mission: perhaps that's the reason.  Maybe the WMF
> > > should
> > > > > > sort out the demarcation issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jennifer,
> > > > >
> > > > > This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the
> vast
> > > > > majority of the community has converged on the conclusion that
> Wikinews
> > > > > hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental
> > > properties.
> > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Philippe Beaudette]

The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth:

I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.

[1]
https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel

Me too.  In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always done
very well.  It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional, use
for a Wiki.  A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a fine
addition to the ecosystem, imho.  And it is very reasonable to think that
given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill
that spot.

But a news competitor to traditional news outlets?  Nope, that it isn't.

Philippe

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Andrew
> >
> > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
> that
> > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH) are a
> > poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand, Wikipedia
> is
> > a success as a news-gathering operation.  These seem inconsistent to me.
>
>
> As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than primary
> source news gatherers. That’s where the difference lies primarily.
>
> I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
> notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
> news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
>
> [1]
> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
>
>
> > However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way forward is
> to
> > fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia.  Is that right?
>
>
> Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia
> editors are already doing a stellar job.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language) Wikipedia
> > > seems
> > > > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent with
> its
> > > > encyclopediac mission: perhaps that's the reason.  Maybe the WMF
> should
> > > > sort out the demarcation issues.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Jennifer,
> > >
> > > This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the vast
> > > majority of the community has converged on the conclusion that Wikinews
> > > hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental
> properties.
> > >
> > > News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the truth
> > given
> > > the constraints of a deadline." News depends on memorializing direct
> > > observation at a point in time. Therefore, the following policies that
> > make
> > > Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original, deadline reporting:
> > >
> > > Wikipedia:NOR - no original research
> > > Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources
> > > Wikipedia:V - verifiability
> > > Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism
> > >
> > > Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this mismatch
> > and
> > > realize it is a poor fit.
> > >
> > > However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should
> > celebrate
> > > the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve minute
> to
> > > minute (oftentimes second to second) to best reflect the world as we
> know
> > > it. Embrace that new, live, constantly updated snapshot of reality –
> the
> > > Wikipedia article.
> > >
> > > If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins of
> > > Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look:
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html
> > >
> > > -Andrew
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: W

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Philippe Beaudette]

As usual, Phoebe states very eloquently what I've been struggling to put
into words myself.  And like she, I would have been excited about this
brand change several years ago.  But we weren't ready / missed / didn't see
the need for that opportunity then.  I think that moment has passed.  I'm
not sure that the cost outlay and the time that it will take to clear up
the confusion that a rebrand will cause is demonstrably worth the value
received from it, for the reasons that Phoebe lays out below.

Best,
Philippe
(former staff, still a volunteer, though of greatly reduced volume)



On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 9:42 AM phoebe ayers  wrote:

>
> Dear all,
> I haven't weighed in before. But it seems to me there's a simple question
> underlying all of this: do we actually want, or need, to increase public
> awareness of the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia chapters/affiliates (as
> opposed to the projects themselves)?
>
> Having Wikimedia be a more recognizable entity or brand does not seem to me
> like it would help us in our core goals, of recruiting editors and content
> to the *projects*. We do not typically use the Wikimedia name to do
> outreach, or to talk about the projects; the handful of us that are
> insiders and give presentations about the WMF is small, relative to the
> number of educators and librarians and editors talking about Wikipedia. (I
> give many trainings on editing Wikipedia every year; talking about
> Wikimedia is irrelevant for this purpose). Perhaps a rebrand would make
> fundraising easier -- but we already use the project brand for that, as
> most fundraising is directly off the projects, and the fundraising that
> isn't (grants and large donations) has a lot of communication around it. So
> I'm not sure how a rebrand would help here either.
>
> The premise of this whole exercise is that people knowing about Wikimedia
> as an entity will somehow help us. But we are not trying to recruit
> contributors to the Foundation, or to the chapters; we are trying to
> recruit them to the projects, and if the infrastructure of our network is
> invisible, I am fine with that. I think to increase the centrality of the
> *organization* is a distraction that misses the point of both our mission
> and the role of the organization, which is to provide infrastructure. We're
> not selling shoes here; more brand awareness of the Foundation does not
> translate into a direct furthering of our mission, and more focus on the
> organization is at best a distraction for overworked volunteers.
>
> Like Andrew, I might have been excited about naming it the Wikipedia
> Foundation ten or fifteen years ago. But now, I think there is a wide world
> of free knowledge that we want to imagine -- including a future of our
> projects remixed into something new, beyond Wikipedia. So for that reason
> too, I am skeptical.
>
> regards,
> Phoebe
> (former WMF trustee)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Farewell, Erik!

[Philippe Beaudette]

Like so many others, I was blown away by wikistats. I can’t begin to count
the number of times I turned to it in my years at the WMF.  And it goes
without saying that Erik was an exemplary colleague, and a true gentleman.
Enjoy your well earned retirement.

Philippe


On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 9:27 PM Leinonen Teemu 
wrote:

> Hi Erik,
>
> When I saw the Wikistats the very first time in mid 2000 (?) I was very
> impressed. After meeting with Erik, I respected the project and him even
> more. The impact of the Wikistats to researchers and students around the
> world, but also to the open data movement in general, has been incredible.
> I hope the future historians will notice this.
>
> Thanks Erik. Your new project looks very interesting.
>
> - Teemu
>
> ---
> Prof. Teemu Leinonen
> http://www.teemuleinonen.fi
> + 358 50 351 6796
>
> On 6 Feb 2019, at 23.17, Dario Taraborelli  <mailto:dtarabore...@wikimedia.org>> wrote:
>
> “[R]ecent revisions of an article can be peeled off to reveal older layers,
> which are still meaningful for historians. Even graffiti applied by vandals
> can by its sheer informality convey meaningful information, just like
> historians learned a lot from graffiti on walls of classic Pompei. Likewise
> view patterns can tell future historians a lot about what was hot and what
> wasn’t in our times. Reason why these raw view data are meant to be
> preserved for a long time.”
>
> Erik Zachte wrote these lines in a blog post
> <
> https://web.archive.org/web/20171018194720/http://infodisiac.com/blog/2009/07/michael-jackson/
> >
> almost
> ten years ago, and I cannot find better words to describe the gift he gave
> us. Erik retired <http://infodisiac.com/back_to_volunteer_mode.htm> this
> past Friday, leaving behind an immense legacy. I had the honor to work with
> him for several years, and I hosted this morning an intimate, tearful
> celebration of what Erik has represented for the Wikimedia movement.
>
> His Wikistats project <https://stats.wikimedia.org/>—with his signature
> pale yellow background we've known and loved since the mid 2000s
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20060412043240/https://stats.wikimedia.org/
> >—has
> been much more than an "analytics platform". It's been an individual
> attempt he initiated, and grew over time, to try and comprehend and make
> sense of the largest open collaboration project in human history, driven by
> curiosity and by an insatiable desire to serve data to the communities that
> most needed it.
>
> Through this project, Erik has created a live record of data describing the
> growth and reach of all Wikimedia communities, across languages and
> projects, putting multi-lingualism and smaller communities at the very
> center of his attention. He coined metrics such as "active editors" that
> defined the benchmark for volunteers, the Wikimedia Foundation, and the
> academic community to understand some of the growing pains and editor
> retention issues
> <
> https://web.archive.org/web/20110608214507/http://infodisiac.com/blog/2009/12/new-editors-are-joining-english-wikipedia-in-droves/
> >
> the movement has faced. He created countless reports—that predate by nearly
> a decade modern visualizations of online attention—to understand what
> Wikipedia traffic means in the context of current events like elections
> <
> https://web.archive.org/web/20160405055621/http://infodisiac.com/blog/2008/09/sarah-palin/
> >
> or public health crises
> <
> https://web.archive.org/web/20090708011216/http://infodisiac.com/blog/2009/05/h1n1-flu-or-new-flu-or/
> >.
> He has created countless
> <https://twitter.com/Infodisiac/status/1039244151953543169> visualizations
> <
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/10/27/new-interactive-visualization-wikipedia/
> >
> that show the enormous gaps in local language content and representation
> that, as a movement, we face in our efforts to build an encyclopedia for
> and about everyone. He has also made extensive use of pie charts
> <
> https://web.archive.org/web/20141222073751/http://infodisiac.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/piechartscorrected.png
> >,
> which—as friends—we are ready to turn a blind eye towards.
>
> Most importantly, the data Erik has brougth to life has been cited over
> 1,000 times
> <
> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en_sdt=0%2C5=stats.wikimedia.org
> >
> in the scholarly literature. If we gave credit to open data creators in the
> same way as we credit authors of scholarly papers, Erik would be one of the
> most influential authors in the field, and I don't think it is much of a
> stretch to say that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Katherine Maher is now CEO and ED of the Wikimedia Foundation

[Philippe Beaudette]

This is a common sense, reasonable update.  Nice work. :)

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 10:21 AM María Sefidari 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> When the Wikimedia Foundation was first established, the head of the
> organization was assigned the title of Executive Director (ED). In the US,
> this is the standard title for non-profit leaders, and made sense for the
> organization at the time.
>
> This week, at our Board meeting, we made a decision to change to this
> convention. We resolved to change Katherine Maher’s title to Chief
> Executive Officer (CEO) and Executive Director. She retains the title of
> Executive Director, and is also now the CEO of the Foundation. She can use
> either, or both, titles to describe her position.
>
> This was an easy decision to make, for a number of reasons.
>
> As our movement has grown in the world, we’ve found that the title of ED is
> not as easily understood outside the United States. As a Board with many
> non-US people, many of us already used the term CEO to describe Katherine’s
> responsibilities. While still an English-language term, it is a very common
> term for many global organizations.
>
> The CEO title is increasingly common in US non-profits as well, especially
> larger ones. This is increasingly considered best practice, as a way to
> communicate that the work of non-profit organizations is as serious,
> complex, and worthy of respect as that of for-profit organizations. For
> example, Creative Commons, one of our closest allies, uses the title of
> CEO.
>
> As the Foundation already uses the convention of “chief officer” for the
> leaders of its internal departments (Chief Financial Officer, Chief
> Technology Officer), it also makes sense. An executive director would be
> the most senior director, whereas a chief executive officer is the most
> senior of the officers.
>
> The Board’s Human Resources Committee recommended this change and reviewed
> the details. As this is an update to Katherine’s title, and not a change in
> her duties as an officer, it does not require an update to the Bylaws or a
> wider consultation.
>
> The Wikimedia Foundation’s Board of Trustees is very supportive of this
> change, as we believe this title better reflects the scope of Katherine’s
> duties over Executive Director alone. This will better support her work
> with global partners and leaders around the world, helping to share our
> vision and supporting the strategic direction of Wikimedia in new markets.
> Katherine’s job is not changing in any other sense.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> María
>
> --
>
> María Sefidari Huici
>
> Chair of the Board
>
> Wikimedia Foundation 
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] America may go bizarro, but Wikipedia has a choice to make

[Philippe Beaudette]

Perhaps that's the answer, James. But maybe there are others as well,
especially since, by their own admission, that tech is not ready for prime
time (meaning fully editable encyclopedia) yet.

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 5:17 PM James Salsman  wrote:

> Why not just officially support Wikipedia on IPFS, which has been
> hosting the Turkish Wikipedia in Turkey, unlike the Foundation, for
> almost two years now?
>
> https://blog.ipfs.io/24-uncensorable-wikipedia/
>
> https://github.com/ipfs/distributed-wikipedia-mirror
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 3:10 PM Philippe Beaudette 
> wrote:
> >
> > Nathan, when you write "the very nature of Wikipedia is
> > maybe the best protection there could be, even against the absurdly
> > unlikely circumstance of a United States government takeover of
> Wikipedia",
> > it's very easy for me to fully and totally agree -- as I would have,
> three
> > years ago.  But in those three years, I've seen things in the US that I
> had
> > never thought I would see.  I've seen the rights that I considered
> > inviolable... violated.  I've seen the resurgence of a brand of
> > conservatism that I find alarming.
> >
> > I find myself, reluctantly, agreeing with Fae that there should be a
> backup
> > plan.  However I choose to believe this is also an opportunity.  What
> > about a fully distributed version that's hosted everywhere, and nowhere?
> > What other options, besides the traditional, can the WMF's bright staff
> and
> > creative volunteers come up with? Surely there's something 
> >
> > Failing that, there's always Iceland. :-)
> >
> > Philippe
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 3:05 PM Nathan  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Fae,
> > >
> > > I'm curious what nation you have in mind for your stable Plan B. Is it
> > > Brexit Britain? France of the Yellow Vests and Front National? Perhaps
> > > Orban's Hungary, Putin's Russia, or Germany with its recent right-wing
> > > resurgence?
> > >
> > > Maybe you'd prefer Jair Bolsonaro's Brazil? I suppose in Italy we'd
> worry
> > > about Beppe and criminal libel statutes, while BJP would hardly seem
> > > welcoming in India and I can't imagine you'd suggest a home on the
> other
> > > side of the Great Firewall.
> > >
> > > Maybe you're hinting at Canada, but otherwise, I'd love to understand
> what
> > > island of liberal stability and legal safeguards you think is safe
> from the
> > > vagaries of electoral politics or rigid authoritarianism.
> > >
> > > The countries I list above have their own flaws (although in each
> case, I
> > > believe, many desirable traits as well) as does any other alternative.
> > > Anyone could reasonably argue it's unfair to stigmatize any of them by
> > > glaringly public flaws.
> > >
> > > To my mind Steve Walling has it right - the very nature of Wikipedia is
> > > maybe the best protection there could be, even against the absurdly
> > > unlikely circumstance of a United States government takeover of
> Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > Nathan
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:17 PM Fæ  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear fellow Wikimedians, please sit back for a moment and ponder the
> > > > following,
> > > >
> > > > For those of us not resident in the US, it has been genuinely
> alarming
> > > > to see highly respected US government archives vanish overnight,
> > > > reference websites go down, and US legislation appear to drift to
> > > > whatever commercial interests have the loudest current political
> > > > voices. Sadly "populism" is happening now, and dominates American
> > > > politics, driving changes of all sorts in response to politically
> > > > inflated and vague rhetoric about "security" and "fakenews". It is
> not
> > > > inconceivable that a popularist current or future US Government could
> > > > decide to introduce emergency controls over websites like Wikipedia,
> > > > virtually overnight.[1][2][3][4]
> > > >
> > > > The question of whether the Wikimedia Foundation should have a hot
> > > > switch option, so that if a "disaster" strikes in America, we could
> > > > continue running Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons from other countries
> > > > has been raised on this list several times over many years. The WMF
> > > > and its employees are heavily invested in staying in Silicon Valle

Re: [Wikimedia-l] America may go bizarro, but Wikipedia has a choice to make

[Philippe Beaudette]

Nathan, when you write "the very nature of Wikipedia is
maybe the best protection there could be, even against the absurdly
unlikely circumstance of a United States government takeover of Wikipedia",
it's very easy for me to fully and totally agree -- as I would have, three
years ago.  But in those three years, I've seen things in the US that I had
never thought I would see.  I've seen the rights that I considered
inviolable... violated.  I've seen the resurgence of a brand of
conservatism that I find alarming.

I find myself, reluctantly, agreeing with Fae that there should be a backup
plan.  However I choose to believe this is also an opportunity.  What
about a fully distributed version that's hosted everywhere, and nowhere?
What other options, besides the traditional, can the WMF's bright staff and
creative volunteers come up with? Surely there's something 

Failing that, there's always Iceland. :-)

Philippe

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 3:05 PM Nathan  wrote:

> Hi Fae,
>
> I'm curious what nation you have in mind for your stable Plan B. Is it
> Brexit Britain? France of the Yellow Vests and Front National? Perhaps
> Orban's Hungary, Putin's Russia, or Germany with its recent right-wing
> resurgence?
>
> Maybe you'd prefer Jair Bolsonaro's Brazil? I suppose in Italy we'd worry
> about Beppe and criminal libel statutes, while BJP would hardly seem
> welcoming in India and I can't imagine you'd suggest a home on the other
> side of the Great Firewall.
>
> Maybe you're hinting at Canada, but otherwise, I'd love to understand what
> island of liberal stability and legal safeguards you think is safe from the
> vagaries of electoral politics or rigid authoritarianism.
>
> The countries I list above have their own flaws (although in each case, I
> believe, many desirable traits as well) as does any other alternative.
> Anyone could reasonably argue it's unfair to stigmatize any of them by
> glaringly public flaws.
>
> To my mind Steve Walling has it right - the very nature of Wikipedia is
> maybe the best protection there could be, even against the absurdly
> unlikely circumstance of a United States government takeover of Wikipedia.
>
> Nathan
>
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:17 PM Fæ  wrote:
>
> > Dear fellow Wikimedians, please sit back for a moment and ponder the
> > following,
> >
> > For those of us not resident in the US, it has been genuinely alarming
> > to see highly respected US government archives vanish overnight,
> > reference websites go down, and US legislation appear to drift to
> > whatever commercial interests have the loudest current political
> > voices. Sadly "populism" is happening now, and dominates American
> > politics, driving changes of all sorts in response to politically
> > inflated and vague rhetoric about "security" and "fakenews". It is not
> > inconceivable that a popularist current or future US Government could
> > decide to introduce emergency controls over websites like Wikipedia,
> > virtually overnight.[1][2][3][4]
> >
> > The question of whether the Wikimedia Foundation should have a hot
> > switch option, so that if a "disaster" strikes in America, we could
> > continue running Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons from other countries
> > has been raised on this list several times over many years. The WMF
> > and its employees are heavily invested in staying in Silicon Valley,
> > and that will stay true unless external risks become extreme.
> >
> > However, there has never been a rationale to avoid investing in a Plan
> > B. A robust plan, where the WMF can switch operations over to a
> > hosting country with a sufficiently welcoming with stable national
> > government and legislation, that our projects could continue to meet
> > our open knowledge goals virtually uninterrupted and without risk of
> > political control. A Plan B would ensure that if the US Government
> > started to discuss controlling Wikipedia, then at least that published
> > plan would be a realistic response. If they tried doing it, we could
> > simply power off our servers in the USA, rather than compromise our
> > content.
> >
> > If anyone knows of committed investment in a practical WMF Plan B, it
> > would be reassuring to share it more widely at this time. If not, more
> > of us should be asking about it, politely, persistently but perhaps
> > less patiently than indefinitely. :-)
> >
> > Links:
> > 1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46739180
> > 2. http://www.lse.ac.uk/ideas/research/updates/populism
> > 3.
> >
> https://www.cnet.com/news/obama-signs-order-outlining-emergency-internet-contro

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: Wikimedia's new Chief of Community Engagement

[Philippe Beaudette]

Sounds like an amazing fit for the Wmf. Congrats to you all, and Maggie...
Take a break now. Good job.

Philippe

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 10:36 AM Maggie Dennis  Hello, all.
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 1:32 PM Katherine Maher 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Just over a month ago, we let you know that we had the reached the final
> > stages of our search for a new Chief of Community Engagement.[1] Today, I
> > am thrilled to let you know that we have appointed Valerie D’Costa to the
> > role.
>
> 
>
> I just wanted to follow up myself on Katherine’s note to voice my
> enthusiastic and excited congratulations to Valerie on joining us and also
> to congratulate *us* on being joined by Valerie. Being part of the search
> panel looking for our next Chief of Community Engagement was an interesting
> and illuminating experience; so many people with so many new...and
> different...approaches. I was absolutely electrified when I completed my
> first interview with Valerie, whose considerate and experienced approach to
> community resonated with me immediately and deeply. I cannot wait for the
> opportunity to work with her in her new role. To those of you who haven’t
> yet: you’ll see what I mean when you meet her. :)
>
> Best,
>
> Maggie
>
>
> --
> Maggie Dennis
> Chief of Community Engagement (for just a little while longer!)
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Avoiding sensory overload at Wikimedia Events

[Philippe Beaudette]

When I was at the WMF, one of the things that I most appreciated about
Gayle, our CTCO at the time, was that she always made sure there were
spaces where I, or other deep introverts, could go to reset.  What I liked
about it was that she always had them adjacent to the main activities - for
instance, I could go to a corner of the main area and be alone while
listening to the speaker, as opposed to being surrounded by coworkers at a
table.  I could still engage, but could do it in an area of relative calm.
I would encourage that type of thinking - not just a "total disconnect and
withdraw" model.

Philippe

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:39 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Michelle,
>
>  during the francophone wikiconvention we had a special calm room for
> people who need to retire a moment from the crowd because of special needs
> they could have. We were asked also not to come nearby with perfumes and
> other sensory distractions.
>
> A calm room for other people (breastfeeding moms, tired or stressed out
> speakers ect), anybody needing a little rest would be real cool I think.
>
> Also we were given advice at the beginning of the convention that we
> should not force people to present themselves in a group and accept the
> idea of touching people can be felt as being intrusive for some.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Natacha / Nattes à chat
>
> > Le 15 oct. 2018 à 15:38, Michelle Boon  a écrit :
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Like many other affiliates, Wikimedia Nederland hosts several events per
> > year. We do our best to make these events an inclusive and pleasant
> > environment for all participants.
> >
> > Last summer, there was a mail thread on Wikimedia-l
> > <
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-August/090914.html>
> > on sensory overload <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_overload> at
> > Wikimedia events. We would like to learn how we can adapt our events to
> > support people who experience sensory overload during events. With this
> we
> > hope to create a safe and pleasant environment for all.
> >
> > In order to learn, we want to hear from you. We therefore made a page
> > <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Nederland/Organising_events:_avoiding_sensory_overload
> >with
> > more information about this initiative. On the talkpage
> > <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Nederland/Organising_events:_avoiding_sensory_overload
> >there
> > is room for sharing ideas and experiences, and discussing  potential
> > solutions.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Michelle Boon
> > Event Organiser & Community Support
> > Wikimedia Nederland
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on recruiting for the Chief of Community

[Philippe Beaudette]

There are no words for how fantastic Maggie is - personally, and to work
with.  Katherine, you've done the right thing here, and I'm thrilled to see
it.

Philippe

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:33 PM Pine W  wrote:

> Putting our differences aside for a minute, one thing for which Maggie
> will have my eternal appreciation is her stepping into her current role
> during a time of higher-than-average chaos. I don't know how that felt from
> inside of WMF, but from my perspective that appeared to be generous and
> courageous.
>
> Thanks for the update, Katherine.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> null
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal regarding norms for meeting/deadline announcements

[Philippe Beaudette]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:30 AM Fæ  wrote:

>
>
> I propose that we create a movement wide announcements list
> (wikimedia-announcements) that is intended for broadcasting, rather
> than discussion...
>
>
Hi Fae,

Are you suggesting the creation of another announcements list?  In addition
to  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l?  Is
there something wrong with wikimediaannounce-l?  It even forwards all
replies to this list for discussion.

Thanks,

pb
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing launch of Santali Language Wikipedia

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Congratulations and thank you for sharing your experience!

JP
User:Amqui


On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Subhashish Panigrahi  wrote:

> Thank you Haidar for sharing in details about the amazing support that
> Wikimedia Bangladesh has provided to the community there. Kudos to the
> Santali community for this achievement and all the best for their
> activities. And Odia Wikimedians User Group will continue to work with them
> more in the future.
>
> Subhashish
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 8:27 PM Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
> > This is a wonderful achievement. Shows that dedication and organization
> can
> > take you far. Good luck in continuing and developing it further!
> >
> > בתאריך יום ד׳, 8 באוג׳ 2018, 17:49, מאת Ali Haidar Khan ‏<
> > tonmoy...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > We are very pleased to announce the launch of Santali Language
> Wikipedia
> > (
> > > https://sat.wikipedia.org). The site has been launched on August 2,
> 2018
> > > and, after the import of pages from Wikimedia Incubator and some
> > > maintenance work, it’s now open for all. Santali Language’s own
> alphabet,
> > > Ol Chiki, has been used as the alphabet of this Wikipedia. Santali is
> > > a language in the Munda subfamily of Austroasiatic languages, spoken by
> > > around 7.4 million people in South Asia (Bangladesh, India and Nepal).
> > >
> > > This is a very special moment for us and has been made possible because
> > of
> > > the joint effort by Santali Language Wikipedian’s from Bangladesh,
> India
> > > and Nepal. Wikimedia Bangladesh and Bangla Wikimedia Community
> > > congratulates the Santali Language Community for their accomplishment
> and
> > > are honored to be a part of this tremendous achievement. Manik Soren, a
> > > dedicated Santali Wikipedian from Bangladesh, along with some very
> active
> > > Santali Language Wikipedians from Bangladesh and India has been
> > > instrumental in this effort. We would also like to thank Shabab
> Mustafa,
> > > President of Wikimedia Bangladesh and Nahid Sultan, a very active
> steward
> > > and Secretary of Wikimedia Bangladesh, for coordinating the effort in
> > > Bangladesh and Odia Wikimedians User Group for coordinating the effort
> in
> > > India.
> > >
> > > It is worth mentioning that the process of creating a Santali Language
> > > Wikipedia began in 2012 and, later on, got momentum in February, 2017.
> > Back
> > > in 2012, Wikimedia Bangladesh organized a Wikipedia meetup and workshop
> > > with the Santali Language Community in Dinajpur District of Bangladesh
> > with
> > > the goal of launching a Santali Language Wikipedia. However, that
> process
> > > slowed down after some time. Then in September 2017, Wikimedia
> Bangladesh
> > > organized another meeting with Santali Language Community in a Dhaka
> > > Wikipedia meetup where a decision was made to expedite the launch of
> the
> > > Wikipedia. Following that discussion, a workshop was organized by
> > Wikimedia
> > > Bangladesh for Santali Language Wikipedians on December 30, 2017.
> Santali
> > > Language Wikipedians from India also participated in that program
> through
> > > online discussion. Subsequently, another workshop was organized for
> > Santali
> > > Language Community in India on March 11, 2018 in collaboration with
> Odia
> > > Wikimedians User Group.
> > >
> > > After months of work, Santali Language Wikipedia got the approval of
> > > Language Committee on June 28, 2018 and finally, the Santali Wikipedia
> > site
> > > was launched on August 2, 2018.
> > >
> > > Let us congratulate and welcome the Santali Language Community.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Ali Haidar Khan
> > >
> > > Executive Committee Member, Wikimedia Bangladesh
> > > ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Countries that publish in public domain

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Good day,

Is there a list somewhere of countries or sub-national governments that
publish the works of their employees in the public domain?

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of the Wikitongues User Group

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Hello,

Does this mean that Wikitongues will work to change it's licence to be
compatible with Wikimedia projects? Because now their content is under CC
BY-SA-NC which is incompatible with Wikimedia projects. Will the future
videos produced by Wikitongues be under CC BY-SA? I assume that if projects
are financed by a grant from the Wikimedia Foundation that we will make
sure that the content is produced under a compatible licence.

Thank you,

JP Béland
Coordinator and Founder, Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages
User Group

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 1:13 PM Rupika Sharma  wrote:

> Congratulations! This is indeed a big achievement and would go long way to
> take forward the movement for linguistic diversity!
>
> Best Wishes
> Rupika Sharma
> Co-Founder
> Punjabi Wikimedians
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018, 10:09 PM Kirill Lokshin 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
> > [1] the Wikitongues User Group [2] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group
> is
> > working to promote and preserve linguistic diversity worldwide, and aims
> to
> > increase the scope of language content across the Wikimedia projects and
> to
> > expand their overall linguistic diversity.
> >
> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >
> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/
> > Resolutions/Recognition_Wikitongues_User_Group
> > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikitongues
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

When we say we want to keep our current requirements, we need to ask
ourselves if we want to continue to be an encyclopedia written by
Westerners for Westerners. If that's the case, fine. But that's not what we
are claiming to be...

JP

On Fri, May 11, 2018, 09:30 Cameron, <came...@cameron11598.net> wrote:

> Well audio recordings or video recordings of oral histories and traditions
> come to mind. However I'm not sure how comfortable I am with an
> encyclopedia using such sources.
>
> Now as an aspiring historian (Only one semester left on my degree), I use
> primary sources quite often for papers, and projects however those are
> generally frowned upon for Wikipedia; mainly because Wikipedia is an
> encyclopedia not an academic journal. Good encyclopedias are typically
> sourced from secondary sources, and ocassionaly tertiary sources.
>
> Now compiling a repository of such orally transmitted histories and
> traditions would be an amazing idea for a new project in my opinion. My
> personal thought on this issue is keeping our current verifiability and
> notability requirements is a good idea. In some areas I think we include
> far too much (fan cruft anyone?).
>
> - Cameron C.
> Cameron11598
>
>  On Thu, 10 May 2018 21:34:15 -0700 peter.southw...@telkomsa.net
> wrote 
>
> If not written, how would they be referenced and verified?
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 6:28 AM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
>
> You are missing the whole point. I'm not talking about second guessing
> sources but rather changing our narrow point of views of what we consider
> sources of knowledge. A lot of cultures are of oral tradition and not
> written.
>
> JP
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2018, 16:42 Todd Allen, <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Abandoning notability and verifiability is a wide open sign for spammers
> > and hoaxers. We have enough of that without giving them an engraved
> > invitation.
> >
> > If published sources are biased, the efforts to correct that should be
> made
> > at the source (literally) level. Just like rather than "disputing" a
> > reliable source, if we found evidence that contradicts them, we'd ask
> them
> > to correct, and then once they do we'll update the article accordingly
> > based on their correction. Wikipedia is not there to second-guess what
> > sources choose to publish or find "alternative" or "non-western" or
> > whatever else have you types of information. If our references are
> flawed,
> > the solution lies in getting them to correct what they're doing, not
> > "correcting" for any perceived bias by editors. We reflect sources, we do
> > not second-guess, dispute, or correct them.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > When Wikipedia was new and unknown there were not so many people
> wanting
> > > to use it for purposes that conflict with our purposes. Times change.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 5:30 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
> > >
> > > If we where that septic at the beginning, we will never have started
> > > Wikipedia to begin with. Really, an encyclopedia written by anyone
> > without
> > > any authority to double check before it is published? It is doomed to
> > fail.
> > > Yes, in theory, but practice showed us otherwise. The question is not
> to
> > > remove notability and verifiability requirements, but to change those
> > > requirements to be more inclusive of different ways of sharing
> > knowledge. I
> > > think practice can show us otherwise in that case too if we are ready
> to
> > do
> > > that leap of faith, the same way we did at the beginning of Wikipedia
> > when
> > > we opened editing to anybody.
> > >
> > > JP
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:05 AM Peter Southwood <
> > > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > One Jar'Edo Wens hoax is enough, and that lasted 10 years in spite

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I confirm that this is not an isolated concept to Australia. I heard the
same thing about being connected to the place, starting the story by
telling who your family is, etc. from Canadian indigenous peoples.

JP

On Fri, May 11, 2018, 09:26 Gnangarra, <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> speaking solely from experience with Indigenous Australian knowledge where
> knowledge is passed orally across generations. The passing of knowledge is
> connected to place, family, and heritage when an indigenous person speak
> they first speak of their heritage, of their connect to the place, and of
> their family. This all establishes the origins of the story, the authority
> of the person to speak, and whos story they are telling.  much like a bio
> of the author in a book establishes their expertise, version, and
> publication dates sets the when
>
> when we share the oral knowledge we already have established notability and
> verifiability, when write the knowledge we dont damage or fix the knowledge
> we share just what it was at that one point and place in time.  Culturally
> the knowledge will continue to be share via the traditional methods
> regardless. We have 200 years of recordings, oppression, dispossession, and
> usurpation of indigenous knowledge that shows it still continues externally
> to written forms.
>
> If we look at someone like Daisy Bates when we digest her work its
> relatively easy to establish the differences between her work in recording
> Indigenous knowledge,  to the fictional works she sold to newspapers to
> earn a living.   That same process she used a 100 years ago works for what
> we are doing now. We dont need to invent new methods nor do we need to wait
> for western sources to catchup all we need is that leap to accept oral
> source with the traditional authentications.
>
> While this is directly related to Indigenous Australian knowledge, the
> methodology will work where we adapt to the cultural authentications of the
> knowledge source and accept them as if we would a book, or journal and cite
> them appropriately.
>
>
>
> On 11 May 2018 at 20:52, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
> > What are the non-Western methods?
> >
> > בתאריך יום ו׳, 11 במאי 2018, 15:49, מאת Gnangarra ‏<gnanga...@gmail.com
> >:
> >
> > > thats the bias we dont accept knowledge as genuine or authorative until
> > its
> > > been established by a westerner using western techniques.  The whole
> > point
> > > of this discussion is that such a process invariably leads to bias, to
> > > solve bias we need to shift our acceptance to alternative cultural
> > methods
> > > of establishing notability and verifiability.
> > >
> > > The point is those non western methods are able to provide the same
> level
> > > of authority as the currently accepted methods, that the to make the
> > change
> > > isnt as disastrous as is being said because we adopt the method
> > appropriate
> > > for the knowledge source rather than ignoring the knowledge until its
> > > adapted to our way
> > >
> > > On 11 May 2018 at 20:32, Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, and we use those books and journal articles as sources. If they
> > are
> > > > written by an acknowledged expert or are peer reviewed, we may
> consider
> > > > them reliable sources. I don’t think this is what this discussion is
> > > about.
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org]
> On
> > > > Behalf Of FRED BAUDER
> > > > Sent: 11 May 2018 07:19
> > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
> > > >
> > > > People write books and journal articles which incorporate oral
> > > traditions.
> > > > The Bible is one example. That doesn't mean we are going to remove
> the
> > > > material about Native Americans migrating through Beringia but that,
> > if a
> > > > tribe's tradition is that it was always in the Americas, that should
> be
> > > > included in its article. Probably not enough to satisfy everyone...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> > > > To:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

You are missing the whole point. I'm not talking about second guessing
sources but rather changing our narrow point of views of what we consider
sources of knowledge. A lot of cultures are of oral tradition and not
written.

JP

On Thu, May 10, 2018, 16:42 Todd Allen, <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Abandoning notability and verifiability is a wide open sign for spammers
> and hoaxers. We have enough of that without giving them an engraved
> invitation.
>
> If published sources are biased, the efforts to correct that should be made
> at the source (literally) level. Just like rather than "disputing" a
> reliable source, if we found evidence that contradicts them, we'd ask them
> to correct, and then once they do we'll update the article accordingly
> based on their correction. Wikipedia is not there to second-guess what
> sources choose to publish or find "alternative" or "non-western" or
> whatever else have you types of information. If our references are flawed,
> the solution lies in getting them to correct what they're doing, not
> "correcting" for any perceived bias by editors. We reflect sources, we do
> not second-guess, dispute, or correct them.
>
> Todd
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> > When Wikipedia was new and unknown there were not so many people wanting
> > to use it for purposes that conflict with our purposes. Times change.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland
> > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 5:30 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
> >
> > If we where that septic at the beginning, we will never have started
> > Wikipedia to begin with. Really, an encyclopedia written by anyone
> without
> > any authority to double check before it is published? It is doomed to
> fail.
> > Yes, in theory, but practice showed us otherwise. The question is not to
> > remove notability and verifiability requirements, but to change those
> > requirements to be more inclusive of different ways of sharing
> knowledge. I
> > think practice can show us otherwise in that case too if we are ready to
> do
> > that leap of faith, the same way we did at the beginning of Wikipedia
> when
> > we opened editing to anybody.
> >
> > JP
> >
> > On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:05 AM Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > One Jar'Edo Wens hoax is enough, and that lasted 10 years in spite of
> > > notability and verifiability requirements, Without the verifiability
> > > requirement  it would probably still be there. Leaps of faith are
> things
> > > that I do not generally do, I am a natural sceptic and prefer evidence,
> > and
> > > where possible, reproducible results. When the evidence is intangible,
> > the
> > > authors must take responsibility for their work, and that means track
> > > record and proof of identity.
> > > This would be more easily fitted into a new project. I do not see it as
> > > possible in Wikipedia. If the new project became recognised as a
> reliable
> > > source then Wikipedia could use it as a source, without destroying the
> > > credibility we have.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Gnangarra
> > > Sent: 10 May 2018 15:50
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
> > >
> > >  notability and verifiability are important,  every culture and
> language
> > > has this issue when it comes to sharing knowledge.  These culture
> manage
> > > successfully to share knowledge many of them long before the western
> > styles
> > > were developed, I'd say they are robust alternatives.  The issue is how
> > do
> > > we bring these sources into the western system, how do we respect them,
> > > how do we teach ourselves to understand that what we currently do is
> not
> > > the only.
> > >
> > > There are risks in potential abuses of every system, even our current
> > > systems have their faults and we assume good faith in the citations
> from
> > > books published but no digital.  Changing the way we consider and value
> > > alter

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

If we where that septic at the beginning, we will never have started
Wikipedia to begin with. Really, an encyclopedia written by anyone without
any authority to double check before it is published? It is doomed to fail.
Yes, in theory, but practice showed us otherwise. The question is not to
remove notability and verifiability requirements, but to change those
requirements to be more inclusive of different ways of sharing knowledge. I
think practice can show us otherwise in that case too if we are ready to do
that leap of faith, the same way we did at the beginning of Wikipedia when
we opened editing to anybody.

JP

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:05 AM Peter Southwood <
peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

> One Jar'Edo Wens hoax is enough, and that lasted 10 years in spite of
> notability and verifiability requirements, Without the verifiability
> requirement  it would probably still be there. Leaps of faith are things
> that I do not generally do, I am a natural sceptic and prefer evidence, and
> where possible, reproducible results. When the evidence is intangible, the
> authors must take responsibility for their work, and that means track
> record and proof of identity.
> This would be more easily fitted into a new project. I do not see it as
> possible in Wikipedia. If the new project became recognised as a reliable
> source then Wikipedia could use it as a source, without destroying the
> credibility we have.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gnangarra
> Sent: 10 May 2018 15:50
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
>
>  notability and verifiability are important,  every culture and language
> has this issue when it comes to sharing knowledge.  These culture manage
> successfully to share knowledge many of them long before the western styles
> were developed, I'd say they are robust alternatives.  The issue is how do
> we bring these sources into the western system, how do we respect them,
> how do we teach ourselves to understand that what we currently do is not
> the only.
>
> There are risks in potential abuses of every system, even our current
> systems have their faults and we assume good faith in the citations from
> books published but no digital.  Changing the way we consider and value
> alternative knowledge streams will take a leap of faith, the question is do
> we really want to take that leap, do we really want to share the sum of all
> knowledge, do we want to address inherent bias in our current knowledge
> networks or are we comfortable with just token efforts.
>
> Maybe the solution isnt in incorporating directly into the wikipedia but
> rather the creation of new project to bring forth these alternative
> knowledge streams
>
>
> On 10 May 2018 at 21:47, Eduardo Testart <etest...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I posted this a while ago, an investigation on gender bias where a member
> > of Wikimedia Chile was involved, in his personal capacity though:
> > https://epjdatascience.springeropen.com/articles/10.
> > 1140/epjds/s13688-016-0066-4
> >
> > There are many things that can be addressed individually and as a
> movement
> > or collective, if we believe the conclusions are valid, which I
> personally
> > do, since they are supported with data and not on our personal
> impressions.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > El jue., may. 10, 2018 10:27, Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> > escribió:
> >
> > > Notability and verifiability are important. They allow us to produce
> > > reasonably reliable work. Moving away from those constraints opens the
> > > doors to extremely unreliable material. If Wikipedia is to remain open
> to
> > > anyone to edit, there do not appear to be any robust alternatives.
> Other
> > > projects may work around this problem, but would then probably not be
> > open
> > > for anyone to edit. Or can you suggest another way?
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland
> > > Sent: 10 May 2018 15:01
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
> > >
> > > "Nothing odd, it's baked in: Wikipedia is a summary of the canon of
> > > knowledge, the corpus of generally accepted knowledge."
> > >
> > > But it is what we accept as part of the 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

"Nothing odd, it's baked in: Wikipedia is a summary of the canon of
knowledge, the corpus of generally accepted knowledge."

But it is what we accept as part of the canon of "knowledge" as Wikipedia
that could be improved. We have a very western approach to that saying that
it needs to be published in such books or journals to be notable enough,
when different cultures use different ways to build their canon of
knowledge.

JP
User:Amqui


On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 5:53 AM FRED BAUDER  wrote:

>
> - Original Message -
> From: Jane Darnell 
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Sent: Thu, 10 May 2018 04:02:46 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Gendergap approach causing problems
>
> ...because of our rules regarding references. Oddly,
> Wikipedia can at best only echo the systemic bias, but will never be able
> to correct it."
>
> Nothing odd, it's baked in: Wikipedia is a summary of the canon of
> knowledge, the corpus of generally accepted knowledge.
>
> The knowledge industry could do better. And when it does, Wikipedia will
> reflect that. in the meantime it is helpful if gender and other bias issues
> are noted and accommodated. Our mission is more modest than full correction
> of all bias, but we can contribute or even lead.
>
> Fred
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia

[Philippe Beaudette]

I suspect that the ad in question is a freebie, donated through Google's
giveaway to nonprofits. If so there is a point person at wmf (maybe in the
advancement team?) Who would know for sure.

Philippe

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 5:10 PM Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I just googled "wikipedia" again and that ad is still coming up.  (I’m in
> Australia.) When you click the link in the ad it takes you (via 3 or 4
> redirects) to wikipedia.org with the word "paid" in the search field. [1]
>  When you click the Google maps link below the ad text it, strangely, takes
> you to the location of a suburban Kmart store. I'm finding it harder to
> believe this is sanctioned by WMF. Anyway, I’d appreciate it if someone
> from the WMF could chime in on this.
>
> 1.  https://instagram.com/p/BhpnGuehzhw/
>
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 at 9:48 pm, Robert Fernandez <wikigamal...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > > "   The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil
> > people    " + a winking Baphomet as logo
> >
> > I think we should change this to our slogan just for April 1.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > "   The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil
> > > people    " + a winking Baphomet as logo
> > >
> > > I find close to pointless derailing any discussion into a
> > incircumstantial
> > > series of tirades.
> > >
> > > Vito
> > >
> > > 2018-04-15 16:21 GMT+02:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <osama...@hotmail.com>:
> > >
> > >> Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to
> > "outsiders"
> > >> Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons
> > >>
> > >> Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel
> > >>
> > >> -- Original message--
> > >> From: Robert Fernandez
> > >> Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM
> > >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List;
> > >> Cc:
> > >> Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia
> > >>
> > >> Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies,
> > >> organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English
> > >> Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone
> > >> can edit" anymore.  So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and
> > >> relevant claim these days.
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad
> > linking
> > >> to
> > >> > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia.
> We
> > >> used
> > >> > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more
> > honest
> > >> > than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of
> reliability
> > and
> > >> > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the
> > discussion
> > >> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone
> else
> > >> > uncomfortabe with this?
> > >> > --
> > >> > Anthony Cole
> > >> > ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> > >>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] YouTube shooting and risk assessment

[Philippe Beaudette]

I can not speak to current practice at the WMF, but I can speak to practice
when I was there (ancient history, long ago, I know) when I say that this
is something that was carefully considered and there were appropriate
experts consulted at the time.  Knowing the team there like i do, I'm
confident that those plans have not lapsed, and that they continue to give
appropriate (though not paranoiac) consideration to the realities of the
world.

I also know that when I was there, we would have considered it
inappropriate to share detail about those plans publicly, and I continue to
believe that is good practice.

Philippe

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:19 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria ... agree, but the
> risk assesement we are discussing here is not about safety, but security. I
> am sure we might not use them all properly, I am also not a native English
> speaker, but they are not the same concept, right?
>
> Now, there were examples where looking at a dossier where the information
> was about only the first one... that's the point here. I am talking about
> events, the first email was about the place of the office... but the
> motivation of a criminal act in both case can be overlapping, so they are
> an unicum in a proper evaluation, IMHO. I am not expert in the field, but
> if you start to assess the risk of someone harming you in SFO, that could
> happen also in another place where many of the same people gather annually,
> and that you also inform millions of people with sitenotices about it.
>
> Now, I don't say that you must inform a lot. But if you are not the police
> you are also not the fire brigade, but you wouldn't write in a candidature
> nothing or simply "if there is a fire someone is paid to extinguish it"...
> you would make more effort, and we do. If you don't want to add another
> paragraph in the final document, rename it "safety and security" but start
> to think organically about it.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> Il Venerdì 6 Aprile 2018 1:59, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> ha
> scritto:
>
>
>  Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria that needs to be
> addressed when bidding for any WMF event, the people bidding are the better
> placed to assess the reality of the local situation.  Open bidding
> processes enable others to also critically look at the options,  ultimately
> we are more at risk at home where feel comfortable then when travelling.
>  Every location has its risks, its undesirables, and crime, just getting a
> taxi to and from the airport is a risk reality is its also more likely than
> a terrorist event
> On 6 April 2018 at 03:24, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> That's why people offwiki say they don't discuss this thing on meta or
> here, because you always have an "answer" like this... this sarcasm. in
> it's way, an example of an unhealthy community.
>
>  Look at what I wrote:
>
> "Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you try to do it
> mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a certain
> point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police and so
> on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO. but it
> should be done."
> that's it. it's not complicated... I know because of partially direct
> experience... it's part of the world, when you are professional. You can't
> prepare an event of certain scale and in a certain areas and ignore it in
> the final dossier. There will be someone who take a look at that. So, who
> talked about "solving terrorism"? just the one who wanted to make a joke.
>
> Maybe people are not big babies and even without constant reminder they
> don't exaggerate. You have no idea with whom I discuss this aspect so far,
> what such wikimedians do in their real life.  They are able to focus on the
> point... the point is security and if you replied this way to this question
> in many situations, you will be considered unprepared.
>
> Alex
>
>
> Il Giovedì 5 Aprile 2018 20:29, Alphos OGame <alphos.og...@gmail.com>
> ha scritto:
>
>
>  I heartily agree : build that firewall, and let Cisco pay for it !
> Wait, what were you suggesting in your incipit ? Oh, right, "a way that's
> rational, avoiding to create unnecessary panic of course".
> I'd rather not ask of people organizing conventions (which is already
> time-consuming by itself) that they solve terrorism in their town, which is
> what the police are probably more suited for, if you don't mind ; as a
> matter of fact, it is not one of their d

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I agree with Kirill, from the WMF point of view, as long as the chapter is
informed and endorsed the creation of a user group within its covered
territory, the WMF did its due diligence. After that, it is the
responsibility of the chapter to do its homework about the local legal
framework before endorsing the creation of the user group.

That being said, I would also be interested in hearing from Wikimedia UK's
perspective on this new user group and the reasoning behind it.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
Coordinator, Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group


On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:37 AM Kirill Lokshin <kirill.loks...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.loks...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted
> as
> > > legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that
> matter).
> >
> > Hi Kirill,
> >
> > In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
> > provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
> > published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
> > the UG application?
> >
>
> The Affiliations Committee publishes all of our application review and
> approval resolutions on Meta; the one for the group in question can be
> found at
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recognition_Grŵp_Defnyddwyr_Cymuned_Wicimedia_Cymru
> .
>
>
> > > Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
> > > should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
> >
> > This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
> > has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
> > that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
> > implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
> > to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
> > variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
> > that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
> > these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
> > recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
> > within the scope of the proposed new UG.
> >
>
> Your implication is entirely incorrect; AffCom consulted with -- and
> received an endorsement from -- Wikimedia UK prior to approving the user
> group.  However, we are neither experts in UK charity law nor empowered to
> speak on behalf of Wikimedia UK; consequently, any questions regarding the
> chapter's legal position should be posed to the chapter, not to us.
>
> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] knowing English is a privilege (was Re: Paid translation)

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I think this is à propos in this discussion about how authoritative can be
the Wiktionary... here a scientific article starts by using a definition
from the Wiktionary:
http://theconversation.com/de-facebook-au-developpement-des-plantes-quand-les-reseaux-sen-melent-90891

JP


On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 9:49 AM Amir E. Aharoni 
wrote:

> 2018-02-28 23:09 GMT+02:00 James Salsman :
> >
> > > building an authoritative dictionary is considerably
> > > harder than building a (de facto) authoritative encyclopedia.
> >
> > What reason is there to think that? My any measure of editor hours, or
> > the amount of money it would take to replicate the effort, or the
> > maintenance load going forward, I'm sure that even a three shelf foot
> > encyclopedia is harder than a 100,000 word dictionary.
>
> A couple of reasons:
> * For the particular case of Wikimedia, we are using the same software for
> Wiktionary as we do for Wikipedia. It's insane. MediaWiki wasn't made for
> that. It was made for Wikipedia.
> * An *authoritative* dictionary needs authority. It must be built by a team
> of trained and certified linguists. It needs a large and systematized
> collection of citations. It's just harder to do this for a dictionary than
> for an encyclopedia. Citations for an encyclopedia these days are often
> easily googlable, and the form of an encyclopedia article is freer than the
> form of a dictionary entry, which must be super-strict.
>
> The English Wiktionary community is overcoming both of these problem
> valiantly.
>
> It is overcoming the first problem by using lots of templates and gadgets,
> which kinda work in practice, but which are hard to learn and to replicate
> for other languages, and hard for software to process.
>
> It is overcoming the second problem by being more practically useful than
> authoritative, similarly to Wikipedia. Lexicographic citations in English
> are particularly easy to google up, given that:
> * English is the #1 language on the web
> * Google is a company based in an English-speaking country and (probably)
> getting most of its revenue from English-speaking customers
> * English has a simple morphology, for which it is particularly easy to
> build a well-working search engine for
>
> However, while it's easy to google up examples for English word usage, I
> strongly suspect that googling won't produce results that will be as
> systematized as a citation database of Merriam-Webster is.
>
> Wikipedia had proved long ago that it can compete—even if not necessarily
> win—with the authority of Britannica, but Wiktionary hasn't yet proven that
> it can compete with the authority of Merriam-Webster, Oxford, Houaiss,
> Duden, etc.
>
> (The English Wiktionary is not necessarily special; I also got to use the
> French, German, and Dutch Wiktionaries a bit, and they all do it at a level
> of quality that is comparable to the English one.)
>
> Is it desirable for Wiktionary to get better? Of course it is. Can
> Wiktionary get better? Yes, and path is quite clear. Wikidata's Lexeme
> project is progressing slowly, but its direction is right. It will finally
> build a technical platform that is actually good for a dictionary.
>
> At https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T186421 I've been writing my ideas
> about how Lexical Wikidata can actually be used by editors and readers. So
> I'm very much on board with the idea of better Wiktionary. (Before you jump
> to conclusions: These ideas were not solicited by Wikidata developers. They
> are totally mine, and they are not in any way "official". I'm just writing
> them down as a brain dump, in my personal volunteering capacity, hoping
> that they will be useful to Wikidata developers.)
>
> > > We are not *teaching* encyclopedia articles.
> >
> > What is the difference between delivering the text of an encyclopedia
> > article and teaching it? Encyclopedias are not written to be
> > accompanied by a lecturer, tutor, or teacher. We even teach how to
> > write them, to students, in schools, and the students often if not
> > almost always get academic credit for their work:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Education_program/Educators
>
> Exactly: As Wikimedians, we are actively teaching people to write in
> Wikipedia (and in other Wikimedia projects), but we are not teaching the
> *subjects* of the articles. Not as Wikimedians. Some Wikimedians are also
> teachers, and they use Wikipedia articles as handouts, but this is not
> really a Wikimedia activity.
>
> As Wikimedians we just make materials available, and we teach others *to
> make them available*.
>
> > > Wikimedia should be busy getting even better at its main thing: wiki
> articles.
> >
> > Why? We are already the best at that.
>
> We may be the best, and we are definitely the most popular, but we could be
> so, so much better. And we should be.
>
> As a simple high-level example, it's still not NEARLY as easy to become a
> Wikipedia editor 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

The Wikimedia movement is more than encyclopedias... We already have
Wikiversity for teaching, no? Are efforts to contribute to Wikiversity and
other sister projects making us lose focus? I'm not sure to understand what
you are saying.

JP

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 2:32 AM Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

> 2018-02-28 1:25 GMT+02:00 James Salsman :
>
> > > I was not trying to say that everybody
> > > should learn English. The point I was
> > > trying to make there is that knowing
> > > English is a privilege and that it is easy
> > > to not notice it.
> >
> > I agree with that, too. How is teaching language different relative to
> > the Foundation Mission than teaching subjects of encyclopedia
> > articles?
> >
> >
> We are not *teaching* encyclopedia articles. We are making it possible to
> write them and to read them. It is not the same thing as teaching subjects.
>
> Should we do teaching? Maybe, but since it's different from making it
> possible to write and read, I'm afraid it would be losing focus.
>
> Is there anything bad about teaching languages? Of course not. It's great.
> I'm just not sure that it's the right thing for Wikimedia to do, when
> Wikimedia should be busy getting even better at its main thing: wiki
> articles.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I don't think it would be losing focus as it fits directly in the mission
of the movement to share the sum of human knowledge, since languages are
knowledge in themselves.

Yes I agree that Wikiversity could be used for that, but this project
really needs support to get to current standards of "online courses", and I
don't see much push in that direction.

JP


On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:23 PM James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Languages are taught by authoritative dictionaries (after people, and
> ahead of almost all other similar reference books.)
>
> Wiktionary has multiple teaching functions whether we want it to or
> not:
> https://curve.coventry.ac.uk/open/items/efe362e1-fe80-4c90-bc1e-4ab2d9bbae20/1/
>
> Have you seen how much Wiktionary has been growing in Brazil?
> https://blog.searchmetrics.com/us/2018/02/14/seo-world-rankings-2018/
>
> Amir, you know it would not be losing focus because of what you said
> in your talk at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_xJaqQV71s
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Amir E. Aharoni
> <amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
> > Well... Not that teaching languages—big or small—is bad, but wouldn't we
> be
> > losing focus if we got into it?
> >
> > Wikibooks and Wikiversity can theoretically be places for teaching. Are
> > they good at it? Probably not. Should they be made better? Maybe.
> >
> > בתאריך 27 בפבר׳ 2018 19:52,‏ "Jean-Philippe Béland" <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca>
> > כתב:
> >
> > Amir,
> >
> > I agree with everything you said, especially that languages are knowledge
> > in themselves, but I must say that Wikimedia is not doing much in an
> effort
> > to teach languages to people. Why isn't there more effort at the WMF or
> as
> > a movement to try to develop a platform to teach languages?
> >
> > Jean-Philippe Béland
> > Vice President and Programs Coordinator, Wikimedia Canada
> > Coordinator, Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User
> Group
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Amir,

I agree with everything you said, especially that languages are knowledge
in themselves, but I must say that Wikimedia is not doing much in an effort
to teach languages to people. Why isn't there more effort at the WMF or as
a movement to try to develop a platform to teach languages?

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President and Programs Coordinator, Wikimedia Canada
Coordinator, Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I agree with the last part of Vito's message. For languages where '''all'''
the speakers speak another lingua franca, I think such process does not
have real value. The speakers will always go read in the bigger language
because the article is most likely to be better. The advantages of having
their own Wikipedia is to be able to express knowledge in their own way
according to their own culture.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:09 PM Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll reply to the most recent email just for laziness.
>
> I'm doubtful for a series of reasons, most of were already expressed in a
> better way by others:
> *a remuneration in terms of quantity will weaken the quality of
> translations unless there's a strong mechanism of quality verification
> requiring a quantity of resources comparable to translations themselves;
> *articles are the result of a long process which reflects cultural identity
> of different communities, I'm not confident with transferring them to a
> different "weaker" cultures. My usage of "weaker" adjective only focuses
> about the strength of a cultural presence on the Internet;
> *articles to be translated are at high risk of reflecting the cultural
> identity (and biases) of the Western culture;
> *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into stable
> Wikipedians.
>
> IMHO some paid editing may be better exploited in order to digitalise texts
> of unrepresented cultures (wikisource) or preserving their vocabularies
> (wiktionary).
>
> Also those languages which are secondary for all their speakers should be
> dealt with in a different fashion. I, for one, am a native speaker of
> specific variant of Sicilian, Sicilian is a secondary language to any of
> its speakers. Honestly, I'd find pointless to read the biography of
> Leonardo da Vinci in Sicilian while I can find thousands of books about him
> in Italian. Also I find this kind of translation creates a fake "literary"
> language totally detached from reality: there's no "encaustic painting" in
> Sicilian, still a Sicilian article about Leonardo will invent one.
>
> As a general principle we should always collect, rather than create,
> knowledge.
>
> Vito
>
> 2018-02-24 16:30 GMT+01:00 John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>:
>
> > My reply can be read as a bit more harsh than intended, it was merely a
> > statement about my present experience about translators in general.
> >
> > The problem with lack of contributors (and translators) in a specialized
> > area is that there is a small community, and within this community some
> > kind of selection is made. Each time a selection is repeated the
> remaining
> > group shrinks. Specialize the selection sufficiently many times and there
> > will be no contributors (or translators) left. It is simply a game of
> > probabilities. Thus, to make such a project work it must have a
> > sufficiently broad scope for the articles. Articles about public health
> > services will probably work even for a pretty small language group, but
> > specialized medical articles might create a problem. But then you find
> > a retired
> > orthopedic surgeon like Subas Chandra Rout…
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 4:04 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I agree with John that it is very difficult to turn a translator into a
> > new
> > > editor. I also agree with Jean-Philippe that it is key to have
> > involvement
> > > of the local projects and preferable if they lead the efforts. Of the
> > > languages we worked in only one explicitly requested not to be
> involved /
> > > have translations from TWB.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 7:59 AM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You can turn it around; give added credits for translations from
> small
> > > > language projects and into the larger ones, that is a lot more
> > > interesting
> > > > than strictly translating from the larger language projects.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> > > > jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I think the request for such projects should come from the
> concerned
> > > > > language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my
> > simple
> > > > > opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jean-Philippe Bélan

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Thank you James for this detailed feedback. It is very interesting.

JP

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 8:27 AM James Heilman  wrote:

> We learned a few things during the medical translation project which
> started back in 2011:
>
> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are
> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
>
> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP. Thus we
> moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the leads of the
> English articles.
>
> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts more
> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that tool
> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles that
> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the
> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
>
> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in which
> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian there is
> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question. The
> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And for
> languages in which we have little content there are often few avaliable
> volunteers.
>
> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would require
> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the work
> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so languages
> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second
> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be accepted.
>
> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple of years.
> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn how to
> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 (one for
> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into Content
> Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the user name and
> password to the account.
>
> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads of
> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. This
> includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO Essential
> List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The efforts have resulted
> in more than 5 million works translated and integrated into different
> Wikipedias. The coordinator has unfortunately moved on to his real job of
> teaching high school students.
>
> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The Wikipedian
> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically single
> handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a language spoken by
> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for many of
> these topics this is the first and only information online about it. Google
> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our partnerships
> with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to translate into Chinese.
> There the students translate and than their translations are reviewed by
> their profs before being posted. They translate in groups using hackpad to
> make it more social.
>
> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-)
> James
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad 
> wrote:
>
> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D
> >
> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k articles,
> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small.
> >
> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators? There
> are
> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand articles from
> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and and the ten
> thousand
> > articles from the expanded list[2].
> >
> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word (about
> $1
> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into another
> > language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in high-cost
> > countries. The pay would also have to be higher for languages that lacks
> > good translation tools.
> >
> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the communities, as
> > without a base set of articles it won't be possible to build a community
> at
> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating well-referenced
> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be avoided.
> Perhaps
> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a help.
> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they does not
> > have to be full translations of the source article.
> >
> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other projects
> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they need a
> lot
> > of 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned
language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple
opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada


On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less interesting
> in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad idea, the
> translators should be able to chose for themselves. Articles should also be
> pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie vertical articles,
> as the number of editors that can handle those will be pretty small.
>
> In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new editor!
> You can although turn an existing editor into a translator.
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are
> >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
> >
> >
> > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the project.
> >
> > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts more
> >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that
> tool
> >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles
> that
> >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the
> >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
> >
> >
> > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious.
> >
> > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
> >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in
> >> which
> >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian there
> >> is
> >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question.
> The
> >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And for
> >> languages in which we have little content there are often few avaliable
> >> volunteers.
> >
> >
> > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of
> > competing articles are pretty low.
> >
> > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would require
> >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the work
> >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so
> languages
> >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second
> >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be
> >> accepted.
> >
> >
> > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is as
> > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the project?"
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project which
> >> started back in 2011:
> >>
> >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are
> >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
> >>
> >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP. Thus
> >> we
> >> moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the leads of the
> >> English articles.
> >>
> >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts more
> >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that
> tool
> >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles
> that
> >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the
> >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
> >>
> >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
> >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in
> >> which
> >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian there
> >> is
> >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question.
> The
> >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And for
> >> languages in which we have little content there are often few avaliable
> >> volunteers.
> >>
> >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would require
> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

colonialism *


On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca>
wrote:

> I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned
> language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple
> opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less interesting
>> in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad idea, the
>> translators should be able to chose for themselves. Articles should also
>> be
>> pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie vertical articles,
>> as the number of editors that can handle those will be pretty small.
>>
>> In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new editor!
>> You can although turn an existing editor into a translator.
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are
>> >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
>> >
>> >
>> > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the project.
>> >
>> > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts more
>> >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that
>> tool
>> >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles
>> that
>> >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the
>> >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
>> >
>> >
>> > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious.
>> >
>> > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
>> >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in
>> >> which
>> >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian
>> there
>> >> is
>> >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question.
>> The
>> >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And for
>> >> languages in which we have little content there are often few avaliable
>> >> volunteers.
>> >
>> >
>> > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of
>> > competing articles are pretty low.
>> >
>> > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would require
>> >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the work
>> >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so
>> languages
>> >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second
>> >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be
>> >> accepted.
>> >
>> >
>> > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is as
>> > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the project?"
>> >
>> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project which
>> >> started back in 2011:
>> >>
>> >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are
>> >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
>> >>
>> >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP.
>> Thus
>> >> we
>> >> moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the leads of the
>> >> English articles.
>> >>
>> >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts
>> more
>> >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that
>> tool
>> >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles
>> that
>> >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the
>> >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
>> >>
>> >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
>> >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in
>> >> which
>> &g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of the Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

 I forgot to include the link to the WikiLang portal on the Wikiversity:
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Portal:Wikilang

JP


On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 1:58 PM Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca>
wrote:

> I had proposed to create a project called WikiLang to teach languages on a
> Wikimedia platform, but it didn't attract enough attention so I moved the
> content to the Wikiversity and that's what you see there with the Atikamekw
> language.
>
> JP
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:26 AM mathieu stumpf guntz <
> psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:
>
>> This is a great news, thank you Kirill, and all member of this group for
>> their work of unvaluable importance regarding language diversity.
>>
>> Are they any plane to collect traditional tales and songs in addition to
>> Lingua Libre sessions?
>>
>> By the way, I see we have Atikamekw
>> <https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Atikamekw_language> courses on
>> Wikiversity, altough it seems more like a stub. I think it would be
>> interesting to have an evaluation matrix of languages courses we have in
>> Wikimedia projects, and it might be a good idea to coordinate efforts
>> around language courses. Actually I think it could be an interesting
>> path to both attract new contributors and provide people opportunity to
>> have meaningful practical use of what they learn, if each lesson could
>> be matched with some text to translate extracted from some of our Wiki
>> projects. What is your opinion about that?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Le 13/02/2018 à 16:45, Kirill Lokshin a écrit :
>> > Hi everyone!
>> >
>> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
>> recognized
>> > the Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group [1]
>> as a
>> > Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to support the creation and
>> > development of Wikimedia projects and other language-related free
>> knowledge
>> > initiatives in the indigenous languages of North America.
>> >
>> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Kirill Lokshin
>> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
>> >
>> > [1]
>> >
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_North_American_Indigenous_Languages_User_Group
>> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of the Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I had proposed to create a project called WikiLang to teach languages on a
Wikimedia platform, but it didn't attract enough attention so I moved the
content to the Wikiversity and that's what you see there with the Atikamekw
language.

JP


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:26 AM mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> This is a great news, thank you Kirill, and all member of this group for
> their work of unvaluable importance regarding language diversity.
>
> Are they any plane to collect traditional tales and songs in addition to
> Lingua Libre sessions?
>
> By the way, I see we have Atikamekw
>  courses on
> Wikiversity, altough it seems more like a stub. I think it would be
> interesting to have an evaluation matrix of languages courses we have in
> Wikimedia projects, and it might be a good idea to coordinate efforts
> around language courses. Actually I think it could be an interesting
> path to both attract new contributors and provide people opportunity to
> have meaningful practical use of what they learn, if each lesson could
> be matched with some text to translate extracted from some of our Wiki
> projects. What is your opinion about that?
>
> Cheers
>
> Le 13/02/2018 à 16:45, Kirill Lokshin a écrit :
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
> > the Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group [1] as
> a
> > Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to support the creation and
> > development of Wikimedia projects and other language-related free
> knowledge
> > initiatives in the indigenous languages of North America.
> >
> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_North_American_Indigenous_Languages_User_Group
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing the 2018 Ombuds Commission members

[Philippe Beaudette]

Great group!  This is such an important role, it's good to see serious
people filling it.

On Jan 31, 2018 3:47 PM, "Karen Brown"  wrote:

> Apologies for the broken formatting in my original message! I forgot how
> Mailman handles HTML in messages. Please see below for (hopefully) a more
> legible version of the announcement:
> ---
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am happy to announce the new and returning members of the 2018 Ombudsman
> Commission (OC), the small group of volunteers who investigate complaints
> about violations of the privacy policy, and in particular concerning the
> use of CheckUser and Oversight[1] tools, on any Wikimedia project for the
> Board of Trustees.
>
> [1]
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Amending_
> the_Scope_of_the_Ombudsman_Commission
>
> I apologize for the length of the announcement. :)
>
> The application period for new commissioners for 2018 recently closed. The
> Wikimedia Foundation is extremely grateful to the many experienced and
> insightful volunteers who offered to assist with this work. This year we
> received applications representing the widest variety of languages,
> projects, and regions I’ve seen since I started working with the committee
> three years ago.
>
> Given the increasing caseload OC has been handing year over year, we have
> decided to take advantage of the opportunity the diverse candidate pool
> afforded us and expand the committee by one seat; this year’s OC will
> consist of eight, rather than seven, members, with a two-member advisory
> team who will guide the new commission.
>
> I am pleased to announce the composition of the 2018 OC. First, the *new
> members* are:
>
> *Billinghurst*
> Billinghurst () is a
> long-term Metapedian/Wikimedian who served as a steward from 2012 to 2016
> and still serves as a global sysop. He considers his home wiki to be the
> English Wikisource where he's performed over 260,000 edits and focuses on
> transcribing biographical reference data from the 19th and early 20thC. In
> addition, however, to serving as a local administrator on Wikisource he
> also holds the sysop hat on Commons, Meta and the English Wikipedia racking
> up almost 700,000 edits across the projects with almost a million edits
> when you count his bot. He claims to still have a bit of wisdom and
> knowledge to give.
>
> *Jamie Tubers*
> Sam, who edits as Jamie Tubers (<
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jamie_Tubers>), joined the English
> language Wikipedia community in 2011 and has over the years expanded his
> activities into a wide range of movement activities including co-founding
> the Wikimedia user group Nigeria and helping to organize events like Wiki
> Loves Africa and Wiki Loves Women. He is dedicated to correcting our
> content gaps and biases related to Africa and raising awareness of the
> projects on the continent.
>
> *Dyolf77*
> Habib () started editing in
> 2010 and has been heavily engaged in community affairs, both onwiki and as
> part of user groups, for years. A native of Tunisia, he has been a
> free-culture advocate on a wide range of issues in and beyond the movement.
> Onwiki, you can mainly find him helping out on Commons, where he is a
> sysop, as well as the Arabic and French language editions of Wikipedia.
>
> *Saileshpat*
> Saileshpat () started
> editing Wikipedia in 2012 and soon became deeply involved in the Odia
> community. He has helped organize outreach events and worked to spread
> awareness in his region. In addition he was one of the co-organizers of
> WikiConference India 2016. Saileshpat has helped in a content relicensing
> process, where the Government of Odisha decided to release content under
> Creative Commons licenses. Online he is mainly active on the Odia Wikipedia
> and Commons.
>
> *Elmacenderesi*
> Elmacenderesi () has
> been working on Wikimedia projects since 2007, primarily on the Turkish
> Wikipedia. There, he has been a CheckUser and a Bureaucrat since 2008 and
> an Oversighter since 2011. He is also a member of Wikimedia OTRS and serves
> as a global outreach coordinator, working with academic institutions and
> GLAMs, for The Wikipedia Library.
>
> *Teles*
> Lucas () became a Wikipedian
> in
> 2007 and started to engage with CheckUser rights in 2009, when he became a
> local CU on the Portuguese Wikipedia. He held both Oversight and Checkuser
> rights on Ptwiki between 2015 and 2017, when his term with the rights
> expired. He is currently an administrator on Commons. His traditional main
> focus has been on anti-vandalism work. In 2012, the global community
> elected him as a steward, a position he has held since.
>
> In addition, experienced OC members Lankiveil and Góngora will be
> *returning
> as 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimedia vs. NSA

[Philippe Beaudette]

sion of
> these surveillance practices by the U.S. Congress[15] demonstrates that the
> courts may well be the only venue to stop or restrict these practices.
>
> The nature of litigation means that we will not always be able to discuss
> certain details of any case in public. For example, deliberations about
> tactical or strategic decisions will need to remain confidential in order
> to preserve the attorney-client privilege.[16] In such situations,
> particularly in a sensitive and important case like this, we are always
> balancing the need for confidentiality with our commitment to transparency.
> So while some information will not be public, we want to be available to
> address your questions, should you have any. Please direct them to Greg
> Varnum gvar...@wikimedia.org, who can help provide answers.
>
> We will continue keeping you updated on our progress and anything that
> might affect our communities and visitors to the Wikimedia sites.[17]
>
> I would like to thank Tilman Bayer, Nuria Ruiz, Faidon Liambotis, Andrew
> Otto, James Alexander, Brandon Black, Byron Bogaert, Dan Foy, Grace
> Gellerman, Aeryn Palmer and Jim Buatti for their extensive dedication to
> this case.  And thanks to the C-levels supporting this work, Eileen
> Hershenov, Victoria Coleman, and Toby Negrin.
>
> Yours,
> Katherine
>
> [1] https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/06/23/wikimedia-v-nsa-present-future/
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_bono
> [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union
> [6] https://knightcolumbia.org/
> [7] https://www.cooley.com/
> [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstream_collection
> [9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_backbone
> [10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_courts_of_appeals
> [11] https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/23/wikimedia-nsa-appeal-standing/
> [12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_(law)
> [13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law)
> [14] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_retention_guidelines
> [15]
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-cyber-
> surveillance/trump-signs-bill-renewing-nsas-internet-surveillance-program-
> idUSKBN1F82MK
>
> [16] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney%E2%80%93client_privilege
> [17] https://policy.wikimedia.org/stopsurveillance/
>
> *Previous updates for your review:*
>
> June 23 2017
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/06/23/wikimedia-v-nsa-present-future/
> June 16 2017
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/06/16/fake-news-nsa-lawsuit-yale/
> May 23 2017
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/23/wikimedia-nsa-appeal-standing/
> December 9 2016
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/12/09/wikimedia-v-nsa-
> hearing-fourth-circuit/
> October 17 2016
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/10/17/wikimedia-v-nsa-appeal-hearing/
> May 9 2016 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/05/09/wikimedia-nsa-appeal/
> April 11 2016
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/11/new-resource-wikimedia-nsa/
> February 17 2016
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/02/17/wikimedia-nsa-appeal-filed/
> December 15 2015
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/12/15/wikimedia-nsa-notice-of-appeal/
> October 23 2015
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/10/23/wikimedia-v-nsa-lawsuit-dismissal/
> September 28 2015
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/09/28/wikimedia-nsa-first-hearing/
> September 4 2015
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/09/04/motion-to-dismiss-wikimedia-v-nsa/
> March 10 2015 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/
>
> --
> Katherine Maher
>
> Executive Director
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> 1 Montgomery Street, Suite 1600
> San Francisco, CA 94104
>
> +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6635
> +1 (415) 712 4873
> kma...@wikimedia.org
> https://annual.wikimedia.org
> ___
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-- 


Philippe Beaudette

phili...@beaudette.me
415-275-1424
415-889-9614
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Austin Hair is gone

[Philippe Beaudette]

A tremendous loss to the movement and the world. I count myself lucky to
have known him. My thoughts are with all you grieve.

Philippe

On Dec 18, 2017 5:52 AM, "Asaf Bartov" <asaf.bar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> I regret to have to inform this list that veteran Wikimedian and longtime
> volunteer administrator of this mailing list, Austin Hair (User:Austin
> Hair), has died, after prolonged health complications.
>
> If you knew him, a good place to leave condolences is his talk page:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Austin_Hair#Condolences
>
> Life is short. Be kind to one another.
>
> Asaf
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Tool to help reaching community consensus

[Philippe Beaudette]

Other than mediawiki, with some extensions?  I'm not trying to be snarky,
but there's not a ton on that page that can't be done with mediawiki.  :-)

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Saluton ĉiuj,
>
> Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task, I'm
> nonetheless wasting time at looking for tools which might help achieve
> that. I just red /4 simplaj ideoj por direkti vian komunumon al
> interkonsento/ <https://lasindias.blog/4-simplaj-ideoj-por-direkti-vian-
> komunumon-al-interkonsento#comments> (4 simple ideas to drive your
> community toward consensus, I'm not aware of an available translation)
> written by David de Ugarte <https://lasindias.blog/indian
> opedia/david-de-ugarte> (in Spanish), which point to Loomio <
> https://www.loomio.org/> as a possible tool for just that.
>
> Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as
> far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone
> was aware of a free software equivalent.
>
> Ĝis baldaŭ
>
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-- 


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415-275-1424
415-889-9614
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia is an Excellent Information Source for Medical Students, Study Finds.

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Could you share links or titles for those other studies if you have them
please?

And what about you editing the articles :P haha

JP

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:01 PM James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Okay so followed up with Samir. While the database of questions was
> selected by he and I, neither one of us did any specific selection
> beyond randomly selecting 25.
>
> With respect to students going and changing Wikipedia / Uptodate, I
> very much doubt they would have. There is other students that have
> found that even when medical students find errors in WP they do not
> bother fixing them. Both WP and Uptodate change slowly over time.
>
> James
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland
> <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
> > This could have been alleviated by using a dump of Wikipedia at a
> specific
> > time throughout the study. I don't know if it was done or not, I doubt it
> > since the article do not mention it, I assume they had direct online
> access
> > to the current Wikipedia at the time of the iterations during the study.
> > Also that would lift one of the concerns in the discussion section about
> > the replicability of the study because Wikipedia evolves, a new study
> could
> > be completed with the same dump at the time of that study in order to
> > replicate the same results (however I wouldn't see the interest, but just
> > for the sake of having scientifically replicable findings).
> >
> > JP
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi James,
> >>
> >> I finally found time to read the whole article carefully. It is a very
> >> well done article and study, in my opinion.
> >>
> >> I have one remark/question. Since the study was conducted over a length
> of
> >> time (April 2014 to December 2016), was the data analyzed to see if the
> >> increase in the results of good answers in the posttest was higher later
> >> during the study (or not) since Wikipedia (and maybe UpToDate, I am not
> >> familiar with that resource) evolves with time? Maybe even students who
> >> participated in the first iteration of this study went after to improve
> the
> >> related Wikipedia articles, thus obviously having an impact on the
> results
> >> since the information about the specific questions that you retained for
> >> the MCQ were "directly" answered on Wikipedia. Is this something that
> was
> >> considered? I do not see that consideration in the discussion section of
> >> the article.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> JP
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:37 AM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> That bit of the paper could have been a bit clearer. I simple
> >>> downloaded 100 questions at random from a website that hosts lists of
> >>> exam question. Am checking with Samir regarding if he did any further
> >>> selection beyond that.
> >>>
> >>> James
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 2:30 AM, pajz <pajzm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > On 31 October 2017 at 17:09, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Full study available under an open license at
> >>> >> https://mededu.jmir.org/2017/2/e20/
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > If one gets to chose the questions and assemble the questionnaire
> then
> >>> > shown to all study participants, I would submit that more or less
> >>> arbitrary
> >>> > study results can be generated by, consciously or subconsciously,
> >>> picking
> >>> > the "right" questions. Curiously, the two people that "reviewed" the
> >>> > questions here were "a Wikipedia editor and administrator," and a
> >>> > "long-term volunteer editor and administrator of Wikipedia" and
> >>> "founder of
> >>> > [...] the Wiki Project Med Foundation."
> >>> >
> >>> > Not being negative or anything, but if you're trying to
> scientifically
> >>> > evaluate whether a given exam prep book improves students' grades,
> would
> >>> > you let the editors of the book prepare the test exam?
> >>> >
> >>> > Best,
> >>> > Patrik
> >>> > ___

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia is an Excellent Information Source for Medical Students, Study Finds.

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

This could have been alleviated by using a dump of Wikipedia at a specific
time throughout the study. I don't know if it was done or not, I doubt it
since the article do not mention it, I assume they had direct online access
to the current Wikipedia at the time of the iterations during the study.
Also that would lift one of the concerns in the discussion section about
the replicability of the study because Wikipedia evolves, a new study could
be completed with the same dump at the time of that study in order to
replicate the same results (however I wouldn't see the interest, but just
for the sake of having scientifically replicable findings).

JP

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> wrote:

> Hi James,
>
> I finally found time to read the whole article carefully. It is a very
> well done article and study, in my opinion.
>
> I have one remark/question. Since the study was conducted over a length of
> time (April 2014 to December 2016), was the data analyzed to see if the
> increase in the results of good answers in the posttest was higher later
> during the study (or not) since Wikipedia (and maybe UpToDate, I am not
> familiar with that resource) evolves with time? Maybe even students who
> participated in the first iteration of this study went after to improve the
> related Wikipedia articles, thus obviously having an impact on the results
> since the information about the specific questions that you retained for
> the MCQ were "directly" answered on Wikipedia. Is this something that was
> considered? I do not see that consideration in the discussion section of
> the article.
>
> Thank you,
>
> JP
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:37 AM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That bit of the paper could have been a bit clearer. I simple
>> downloaded 100 questions at random from a website that hosts lists of
>> exam question. Am checking with Samir regarding if he did any further
>> selection beyond that.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 2:30 AM, pajz <pajzm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 31 October 2017 at 17:09, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Full study available under an open license at
>> >> https://mededu.jmir.org/2017/2/e20/
>> >
>> >
>> > If one gets to chose the questions and assemble the questionnaire then
>> > shown to all study participants, I would submit that more or less
>> arbitrary
>> > study results can be generated by, consciously or subconsciously,
>> picking
>> > the "right" questions. Curiously, the two people that "reviewed" the
>> > questions here were "a Wikipedia editor and administrator," and a
>> > "long-term volunteer editor and administrator of Wikipedia" and
>> "founder of
>> > [...] the Wiki Project Med Foundation."
>> >
>> > Not being negative or anything, but if you're trying to scientifically
>> > evaluate whether a given exam prep book improves students' grades, would
>> > you let the editors of the book prepare the test exam?
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Patrik
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
>



-- 

Jean-Philippe Béland

[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia is an Excellent Information Source for Medical Students, Study Finds.

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Hi James,

I finally found time to read the whole article carefully. It is a very well
done article and study, in my opinion.

I have one remark/question. Since the study was conducted over a length of
time (April 2014 to December 2016), was the data analyzed to see if the
increase in the results of good answers in the posttest was higher later
during the study (or not) since Wikipedia (and maybe UpToDate, I am not
familiar with that resource) evolves with time? Maybe even students who
participated in the first iteration of this study went after to improve the
related Wikipedia articles, thus obviously having an impact on the results
since the information about the specific questions that you retained for
the MCQ were "directly" answered on Wikipedia. Is this something that was
considered? I do not see that consideration in the discussion section of
the article.

Thank you,

JP

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:37 AM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That bit of the paper could have been a bit clearer. I simple
> downloaded 100 questions at random from a website that hosts lists of
> exam question. Am checking with Samir regarding if he did any further
> selection beyond that.
>
> James
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 2:30 AM, pajz <pajzm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 31 October 2017 at 17:09, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Full study available under an open license at
> >> https://mededu.jmir.org/2017/2/e20/
> >
> >
> > If one gets to chose the questions and assemble the questionnaire then
> > shown to all study participants, I would submit that more or less
> arbitrary
> > study results can be generated by, consciously or subconsciously, picking
> > the "right" questions. Curiously, the two people that "reviewed" the
> > questions here were "a Wikipedia editor and administrator," and a
> > "long-term volunteer editor and administrator of Wikipedia" and "founder
> of
> > [...] the Wiki Project Med Foundation."
> >
> > Not being negative or anything, but if you're trying to scientifically
> > evaluate whether a given exam prep book improves students' grades, would
> > you let the editors of the book prepare the test exam?
> >
> > Best,
> > Patrik
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>



-- 

Jean-Philippe Béland

[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
soutenant Wikipédia
Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
supporting Wikipedia
535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018: Program themes, eligibility criteria and reporting deadlines

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Just a quick reaction from Cornelius' message and Lodewijk's answer. I will
reply with my thoughts more in detail once I get back in Canada as I'm
still in France after the Wikiconvention.

I also think that we need a better defined official goal of the Wikimedia
Conference to address this issue. It was also my understanding that the
Wikiconference was a meeting of the official structured affiliates of the
Wikimedia movement from around the world. The questions raised about
representativity at the last Wikiconference, from my understanding, were
mainly raised on the Strategy Track, as Lodewijk also suggests, that was a
special event in 2017. I don't think the Wikiconference has the role of
defining strategy for the whole movement as a goal, but again that would
need to be identified by identifying a clear goal and intent for this
conference.

That being said, I don't think this is a good idea to say even implicitly
that affiliates are representatives of our online communities in any way.
They are independant communities and must remain that way in my opinion.

Thank you,
JP

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 20:16 Lodewijk, <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:

> That all depends on the goals that the conference sets itself, as always :)
>
> As I understood it, the conference is intended for structured and organized
> groups, rather than to be a representative forum for the whole movement. In
> 2017, I understood there to be mostly two events taking place in the same
> location - with some overlap in program. In that sense, this was quite a
> unique situation because of the strategic process.
>
> The first question would be whether you accept each challenge as a goal. If
> being representative of the whole movement becomes the goal, the structure
> probably needs to be overhauled much more, and the default invitation for
> all groups may have to be reconsidered. One representative from the
> Japanese community wouldn't cut it, then (for example).
>
> On the other side, I could also imagine a different goal, which would be to
> fill certain gaps in input diversity from the participants. This could be
> input from certain language communities, or from certain cultures where we
> even lack readership. This would make more sense to me - as it would not
> imply a representation as much. In part it would lead to a similar
> consideration and outcome, but it would force you to also consider other
> areas where input is lacking from. For example, allied movements or project
> communities beyond Wikipedia (for example, the collective of developing
> language communities in Africa or communities that are government-blocked -
> of which I'm uncertain if they are covered by affiliates). This would also
> send the message to the communities you ask to send a representative what
> you expect of such participant (if that would indeed be your goal).
>
> There could be many other goals of course, that you (plural) could have in
> mind. I'm not sure which applies best. I would suggest not to deviate from
> the official line that chapters don't represent language communities,
> though. That is, unless this official line has changed.
>
> Warmly,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Cornelius Kibelka <
> cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
> > Hi Lodewijk, hi JP,
> >
> > Over the last years, we received the feedback that the Wikimedia
> Conference
> > would not be as (globally) representative as it could or should be. For
> the
> > Wikimedia Conference 2017, several “Community Leaders” were invited to
> the
> > conference to be heard for the Movement Strategy process, but the
> > selection/invitation process was not as clear as it could have been.
> >
> > To be more representative on a global scale and to have more different
> > people from different regions present at the conference, we needed clear,
> > transparent and non arbitrary criteria. However, there is no solution
> that
> > covers every possible challenge. Therefore, we chose to give this
> approach
> > – with clear criteria – at least a try for the Wikimedia Conference 2018.
> > Also, as we expect more changes in the Movement in the upcoming year,
> this
> > approach is a try for 2018 only, as an overhaul of the whole concept of
> the
> > Wikimedia Conference will be needed anyway.
> >
> > Additionally, I want to highlight this, because this was criticized in
> the
> > past as well, all regularly eligible affiliates may send at least two
> > representatives.
> >
> > I’m aware that this approach implies challenges, though. I’m happy to
> > receive suggestions on how to come up with equally clear and transparent
> > criteria.
> >
> > Best reg

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018: Program themes, eligibility criteria and reporting deadlines

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I share the questions of Lodewijk

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 19:22 Cornelius Kibelka, <
cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Of course, I meant:
>
> "The registration process will start on November 24, *2017* and will end
> sharply (no exceptions), on January 15, 2018."
>
> Thank you
> Cornelius
>
> --
>
> Cornelius Kibelka
>
> Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
> for the Wikimedia Conference
>
>
>
> Am 23.10.2017 18:04 schrieb "Cornelius Kibelka" <
> cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de>:
>
> > Dear Wikimedians, dear representatives of Wikimedia affiliates,
> >
> > A few weeks ago, we announced that the next Wikimedia Conference will
> take
> > place from April 20 to 22, 2018 at the Mercure Hotel in Berlin-Neukölln
> > (same location as in 2017). This email contains information about the
> > program themes and the Eligibility Criteria for invited affiliates
> > including the relevant reporting deadlines.
> >
> > == Program Themes ==
> >
> > As in the previous editions of the conference, the Wikimedia Conference
> > 2018 will again focus on three core themes.
> >
> >-
> >
> >Movement Strategy: In November 2017, phase 2 of the Wikimedia Movement
> >Strategy Process will start. Its main goal will be to answer the
> question
> >"How do we implement the strategic direction", which means
> identifying the
> >roles and resources needed for execution, and the activities it
> involves.
> >In order to ensure participation from the organized part of the
> movement in
> >this next phase, we will again host a three-day track on movement
> strategy.
> >This track will be designed together with the Wikimedia Foundation.
> >-
> >
> >Partnerships in the Wikimedia Movement: Wikimedia organizations and
> >groups have a wide variety of experiences and knowledge in working
> with
> >partners to achieve our mission. Based on the conversation at the last
> >Wikimedia Conference, Wikimania, and regional Wikimedia conferences,
> we aim
> >to continue to offer a space for conversations, experience sharing and
> >learning around partnerships within and outside the Wikimedia
> movement.
> >This track will be designed together with the Wikimedia Foundation’s
> Global
> >Reach & Partnerships team, WMDE’s Partnerships & Development team and
> the
> >volunteer “Partnerships group”.
> >-
> >
> >Capacity Building & Learning: The Wikimedia Conference currently is
> >one of the main spaces for learning and sharing among Wikimedia
> affiliates.
> >Again, we will host a track with sessions that are designed according
> to
> >the participants’ needs, wishes and experiences. This track will be
> >designed in close consultation with WMF’s Learning & Evaluation team,
> and
> >will complement the pre-conference Learning Days.
> >
> >
> > == Eligibility Criteria ==
> >
> > The eligibility criteria for participating in the Wikimedia Conference
> > 2018 are aligned to the Affiliates’ Agreements with the Wikimedia
> > Foundation.
> >
> > Chapters, Thematic Organizations and User Groups must have shown signs of
> > recent activity (within the last six months) and be up-to-date on their
> > reporting by the eligibility deadline (December 15, 2017). Moreover,
> > affiliates need to have been officially recognized by the Wikimedia
> > Foundation before April 19, 2017.
> >
> > == Participant number regulation ==
> >
> >-
> >
> >Chapters, Thematic Organizations and User Groups may send two
> >delegates. Chapters and Thematic Organizations which employ at least
> 0.5
> >FTE by Sep 1, 2017, may send one additional delegate who is a paid
> staff
> >member.
> >-
> >
> >Allied organizations may send two delegates.
> >-
> >
> >The biggest ten language/project communities (by numbers of active
> >editors [>5 edits/month]) that are not represented by any affiliate,
> or
> >have an affiliate, which is not eligible because it was recognized
> after
> >April 19, 2017, may send one delegate.
> >-
> >
> >   As per September 2017, the biggest communities without an
> >   (eligible) affiliate representation are the Japanese, Vietnamese,
> Tamil,
> >   Bengali, Slovak, Croatian, Hindi and Malay, Wikimedia Commons and
> >   Wikivoyage communities.
> >   -
> >
> >   The user groups West Bengal Wikimedians User Group (for the Bengali
> >   community), Hindi Wikimedians User Group (for the Hindi
> community), Wikimedia
> >   Community User Group Malaysia (for the Malay community), as well as
> >   the Commons Photographers User Group (for the Wikimedia Commons
> >   community) and the Wikivoyage Association (for the Wikivoyage
> >   communities) may send one delegate. For the language communities
> (Japanese,
> >   Vietnamese, Tamil, Slovak, Croatian), decision finding and making
> process
> >   on who will be the one person sent to the conference, need to be
> made in
> >   

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Women in red

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Yes it's all on Meta. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Start.

JP

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 3:21 PM Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Are those applications published anywhere? I'd be curious to see it. I'm
> not really familiar with the grant process.
>
> Todd
>
> On Oct 16, 2017 12:47 PM, "Jean-Philippe Béland" <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > My opinion is that such projects should be supported, we should encourage
> > 'be bold'. That being said, people planning projects at a large scale
> > should communicate with the concerned communities first. As such, the
> > concerns raised in this thread for example would have been raised during
> > the planning phase of that project and hopefully addressed. There is a
> > place in the application forms for grants for projects that asks to list
> > "Community Notification". The Grant Committee should look more closely at
> > that section and ensure that the communities have been notified before
> > granting any fund.
> >
> > JP
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I understand from the original email that the venue was chosen based on
> > the
> > > fact that it was WMF-funded as a project. I am guessing he's trying to
> > pull
> > > that leverage.
> > >
> > > The topic is more generic though: should we support projects that are
> > > considered by some to be a little rough on the edges, or should we only
> > > pick 'safe' projects that will land well with the community. And how
> much
> > > of 'be bold' can be applied to projects that operate at a somewhat
> larger
> > > scale.
> > >
> > > While this particular topic seems enwp specific, its theme isn't.
> > >
> > > Lodewijk
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> > > jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > There is so many threads on this list that are only about English
> > > Wikipedia
> > > > like it is the centre of the world... Why other communities are able
> to
> > > > keep their internal discussions internal and not this community?
> > > >
> > > > Jean-Philippe Béland
> > > > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> > > > list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The people whose opinion should most matter in determining whether
> a
> > > > > comment is sexist are women. Not men, and not non-binary
> > transmasculine
> > > > > people like myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > I support and echo Emily and Molly's earlier comments on this
> thread:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of
> Emily's/Keilana's
> > > > >> message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns
> > that
> > > > this
> > > > >> will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for
> in
> > > the
> > > > >> document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this
> > > project
> > > > >> will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including
> not
> > > > >> mass-producing poor-quality content).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
> > > > >> describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a
> > sexist.
> > > I
> > > > >> believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's
> said
> > > can
> > > > >> be
> > > > >> described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism
> of
> > > > poor
> > > > >> wording.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare
> > > > <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
> > > > >> gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through
> to
> > > > this
> > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Women in red

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

My opinion is that such projects should be supported, we should encourage
'be bold'. That being said, people planning projects at a large scale
should communicate with the concerned communities first. As such, the
concerns raised in this thread for example would have been raised during
the planning phase of that project and hopefully addressed. There is a
place in the application forms for grants for projects that asks to list
"Community Notification". The Grant Committee should look more closely at
that section and ensure that the communities have been notified before
granting any fund.

JP



On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
wrote:

> I understand from the original email that the venue was chosen based on the
> fact that it was WMF-funded as a project. I am guessing he's trying to pull
> that leverage.
>
> The topic is more generic though: should we support projects that are
> considered by some to be a little rough on the edges, or should we only
> pick 'safe' projects that will land well with the community. And how much
> of 'be bold' can be applied to projects that operate at a somewhat larger
> scale.
>
> While this particular topic seems enwp specific, its theme isn't.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>
> > There is so many threads on this list that are only about English
> Wikipedia
> > like it is the centre of the world... Why other communities are able to
> > keep their internal discussions internal and not this community?
> >
> > Jean-Philippe Béland
> > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> > list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote:
> >
> > > The people whose opinion should most matter in determining whether a
> > > comment is sexist are women. Not men, and not non-binary transmasculine
> > > people like myself.
> > >
> > > I support and echo Emily and Molly's earlier comments on this thread:
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
> > >> message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
> > >>
> > >> I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that
> > this
> > >> will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in
> the
> > >> document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this
> project
> > >> will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not
> > >> mass-producing poor-quality content).
> > >>
> > >> As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
> > >> describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist.
> I
> > >> believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said
> can
> > >> be
> > >> described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of
> > poor
> > >> wording.
> > >>
> > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare
> > <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
> > >> gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to
> > this
> > >> list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with
> > her
> > >> email address.
> > >>
> > >> "This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some
> > >> stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD
> > >> everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
> > >>
> > >> I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women
> > to a
> > >> higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't
> > going
> > >> to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch
> > of
> > >> stubs.
> > >>
> > >> And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's
> > better
> > >> than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I
> > shouldn't
> > >> have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
> > >>
> > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > >>
> > >
> > > - Pax aka Funcrunch
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/16/17 10:11 AM, Todd Allen wrote:
> > >
> > >&

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Women in red

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

As far as i know, it is the only project that the initiative Women in red
contribute to, which is the initial subject of this thread.

It certainly is the only project where "Many of the competition articles
will just get tagged CSD - A1, A7, A9 even G2" makes any sense. I am a
sysop on several Wikimedia projects and participate in deletion regularly
and I have no clue what CSD, A1, A7, A9 and even G2 are, which are part of
the initial email of this thread, proving that it applies to only the
English Wikipedia.

So my point stands. This is not a thread about "misogyny and
under-representation of female editors" in general, even if it may
have derived that way. The initial email and the few that followed clearly
show that the authors were talking only about the English Wikipedia and
showed zero interest in including the other projects in a meaningful
general discussion about that issue, if not why using obscure terms that
only pertain to that project?

That being said, I now thank Lodewijk for making it general and inclusive.
It should have been the way this discussion was opened if it was really
meant to be a more generic theme and wanted to be inclusive of the
community as a whole.

JP



On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Robert Fernandez <wikigamal...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Is the English Wikipedia the only Wikipedia which has problems with
> misogyny and under-representation of female editors and articles? I am
> relieved to hear that!
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> > wrote:
>
> > There is so many threads on this list that are only about English
> Wikipedia
> > like it is the centre of the world... Why other communities are able to
> > keep their internal discussions internal and not this community?
> >
> > Jean-Philippe Béland
> > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> > list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote:
> >
> > > The people whose opinion should most matter in determining whether a
> > > comment is sexist are women. Not men, and not non-binary transmasculine
> > > people like myself.
> > >
> > > I support and echo Emily and Molly's earlier comments on this thread:
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
> > >> message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
> > >>
> > >> I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that
> > this
> > >> will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in
> the
> > >> document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this
> project
> > >> will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not
> > >> mass-producing poor-quality content).
> > >>
> > >> As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
> > >> describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist.
> I
> > >> believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said
> can
> > >> be
> > >> described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of
> > poor
> > >> wording.
> > >>
> > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare
> > <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
> > >> gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to
> > this
> > >> list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with
> > her
> > >> email address.
> > >>
> > >> "This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some
> > >> stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD
> > >> everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
> > >>
> > >> I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women
> > to a
> > >> higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't
> > going
> > >> to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch
> > of
> > >> stubs.
> > >>
> > >> And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's
> > better
> > >> than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I
> > shouldn't
> > >> have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
> > >>
> > >> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
&g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Women in red

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

There is so many threads on this list that are only about English Wikipedia
like it is the centre of the world... Why other communities are able to
keep their internal discussions internal and not this community?

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote:

> The people whose opinion should most matter in determining whether a
> comment is sexist are women. Not men, and not non-binary transmasculine
> people like myself.
>
> I support and echo Emily and Molly's earlier comments on this thread:
>
>
> Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
>> message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
>>
>> I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that this
>> will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in the
>> document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this project
>> will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not
>> mass-producing poor-quality content).
>>
>> As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between
>> describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist. I
>> believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said can
>> be
>> described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of poor
>> wording.
>>
>> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare <gorillawarfarewikipedia@
>> gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to this
>> list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with her
>> email address.
>>
>> "This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some
>> stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD
>> everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
>>
>> I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women to a
>> higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't going
>> to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch of
>> stubs.
>>
>> And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's better
>> than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I shouldn't
>> have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
>>
>> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
>>
>
> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>
>
>
> On 10/16/17 10:11 AM, Todd Allen wrote:
>
>> Is that still going on?
>>
>> I'm against sexism and all for improving coverage of women on Wikipedia.
>> I've helped to encourage events toward that end, and they've turned out
>> pretty well. We now have quite a few more articles, for example, on women
>> involved as pioneers in outdoor sports and activities because of them.
>>
>> But I'm unsure how asking the question "Is it wise to offer money in
>> exchange for creating large numbers of articles without consideration of
>> quality?" or "Will this effort have the intended result?" is sexist. The
>> same question would apply if the proposed articles were about Russian
>> literature or asteroids. It is not sexist to ask the question just because
>> of what the subject happens to be.
>>
>> I think that needs to be discussed, not sidetracked by calling people
>> sexists. If people really were making sexist statements, I'd be all for
>> shutting that crap down. But I've seen not one such statement in this
>> thread.
>>
>> Todd
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2017 10:28 AM, "Robert Fernandez" <wikigamal...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> So those who call out sexism are the real sexists, amirite?
>>>
>>> I am fed up with this double standard in the way we talk about these
>>> issues.  Some people are allowed to make broad, unsupported, sweeping
>>> generalizations about the motives and actions of others and that's
>>> considered just fine, but if you call them out in even the gentlest tones
>>> it's treated as some horrific personal attack, and censure and apologies
>>> are demanded.  We've culturally internalized sexism so much that even the
>>> way we talk about sexism is sexist.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But just a note: using the same behavior of phenomena you're trying to
>>>> contast is, per se, a clear defeat.
>>>> To 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Emerging Communities: a proposed new definition

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Where does the number 750,000 speakers come from? And what is the rationale
to exclude smaller linguistic communities?

I think emerging communities can have less speakers than that. A language
can be viable and alive with less speakers than that, so we are not talking
about preserving a language even if there are less speakers than that. If
the language is used in day to day life and to teach at schools, why
wouldn't it be considered for a Wikipedia and a Wiktionary even if there
are less than 750,000 speakers?

Thank you,

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada

On Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 04:29 Balázs Viczián, <balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu>
wrote:

> Hi Asaf et All,
>
> Hope I won't get skipped because I barely talk on this list or in general
> on an international level but this proposal could have a long term effect
> on my chapter.
>
> Happy to see WMF is ready to start giving up at least a bit on geography or
> census numbers and shift focus to existing communities based on their
> actual state and health.
>
> I would suggest not stopping here but going forward by completely
> abandoning geography and such overgeneralization where the entire world can
> be described by 3 (that is three) labels.
>
> Instead evaluate each community topic by topic.
>
> Say one: governance. Even WMF itself had such a crisis, not to say the
> British, German and now the French "developed" chapters. For them, better
> organized but ever labeled "emerging" communities might have been able to
> provide support, if their category would not be discouraging them from
> stepping in.
>
> Discouraging, yup. Put your hands on your hearts and be honest. We all
> think that at least on a general level the "developed" should teach and
> support the "emerging" and not the other way around, right?
>
> Yet said governance as an example appears to be a lot more problematic for
> the ever "developed" than the ever "emerging".
>
> This proposal does not recognize such patterns but it is a big step forward
> nevertheless as it shifts more focus on the existing communities. The
> labels are in my subjective opinion are somewhat patronizing as per above.
>
> Balazs,
> from an ever "emerging" community
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 19:30, "Asaf Bartov" <abar...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Dear Wikimedians,
> >
> > Years ago, as part of the first Strategy process of 2009-2010, a
> > distinction entered our lives, between Global North and Global South
> > countries.  That distinction was borrowed from a United Nations agency
> > named ITU, and it was used as shorthand to refer to communities the
> > Foundation considered to need additional resources and help to achieve
> > impact on our mission of creating and sharing free knowledge.
> >
> > However, the distinction was never a very good fit for us.  It was based
> on
> > UN notions like the Human Development Index, and gave much weight to
> > nation-wide economic conditions.  Its binary nature did not allow for
> > distinguishing between countries where Wikimedia work is possible and
> > happening, albeit with difficulty, and ones where no Wikimedia work, or
> > next to none, is happening, or possible.  It also looked only at
> geography,
> > whereas much of our work is defined by language communities and not by
> > geographies.  And it was political and alienating to many people.
> >
> > In short, it was both not as useful as we needed it to be as well as
> > unloved and rejected by many.
> >
> > The Community Resources team at the Wikimedia Foundation has been
> thinking
> > about replacing that distinction with a more nuanced one, that would be a
> > much better fit with our needs, would take into account the actual state
> of
> > editing communities, would consider multiple axes beyond geography, and
> > would be less controversial.
> >
> > We began using the term "emerging communities" two years ago, first as a
> > replacement for the term Global South, but it has always been our
> intention
> > to define Emerging Communities ourselves.  Finishing the proposed
> > definition took a back seat for a while due to other priorities, but we
> are
> > ready to share the proposed definition today:
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement/
> > Defining_Emerging_Communities
> >
> >
> > We welcome your thoughts, on the talk page (ideally) or on this thread.
> > The definition is already our working definition, but we are open to
> > incorporating changes to both wording and substance through October 31st.
> >
&g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mailing lists (was Encyclopedic Writing Guide)

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Alors nous induisons les lecteurs/trices en erreur avec des pages comme
celle-ci :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists#Public_mailing_lists

JP


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Michael Snow <wikipe...@frontier.com>
wrote:

> On 9/26/2017 6:34 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland wrote:
>
>> So what is Wikipedia-l
>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l> for? It is
>> describe "for issues specific to Wikipedia (and not sister projects such
>> as
>> Wiktionary) but affecting editions of Wikipedia in more than one
>> language".
>> Exactly what you are talking about "content about Wikipedia,
>> *particularly* when not specific to any one language"...
>>
> In terms of the original design, you are correct that wikipedia-l was
> intended for this. However, if I may attempt to restate Asaf's point, that
> list has no meaningful activity, and it is counterproductive to insist that
> people use it when this list can serve the purpose. Initiating a productive
> conversation on this list is already work enough, we should not multiply
> the effort needed by requiring that someone also revive a comatose mailing
> list.
>
> That being said, if someone else wanted to take on the second task
> (reviving wikipedia-l) and forwarded this message there, or started a
> parallel conversation, I don't think that would be particularly
> problematic. But as this situation indicates, there is a challenge involved
> in determining how to use our multiplicity of lists with adjacent and
> potentially overlapping topic areas. I suspect the activity patterns into
> which we have drifted should tell us something about the optimum
> configuration of lists and topics, in the same way that say, Wikiversity
> languishing while Wikidata flourishes should tell us something about the
> optimum number of projects we can support.
>
> --Michael Snow
>
> ___
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-- 

Jean-Philippe Béland

[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
soutenant Wikipédia
Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
supporting Wikipedia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Encyclopedic Writing Guide

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

So what is Wikipedia-l
<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l> for? It is
describe "for issues specific to Wikipedia (and not sister projects such as
Wiktionary) but affecting editions of Wikipedia in more than one language".
Exactly what you are talking about "content about Wikipedia,
*particularly* when not specific to any one language"...

JP


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Sep 25, 2017 18:57, "Jean-Philippe Béland" <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca>
> wrote:
>
> This should have been posted to the Wikipedia mailing list since it doesn't
> have anything to do with the other projects or the movement in general.
>
>
> Um, no. This list is a general list, and content about Wikipedia,
> *particularly* when not specific to any one language, is welcome here.
>
> There is no active Wikipedia-only alternative to this list that would reach
> this international audience.
>
> A.
> ___
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-- 

Jean-Philippe Béland

[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
soutenant Wikipédia
Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
supporting Wikipedia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Women through the glass ceiling: gender asymmetries in Wikipedia

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

"As biases go, omitting notable subjects in the global south doesn't
have the deleterious real-world consequences that reenforcing
erroneous economic hegemony does."

How so? I don't want to go into politics topics, but with what we see
recently we clearly see the danger of thinking "less" of those cultures of
people...

JP


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 3:31 PM, James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jean-Philippe, yes, absolutely:
>
> http://blogs.oii.ox.ac.uk/policy/how-well-represented-
> is-the-mena-region-in-wikipedia/
>
> As biases go, omitting notable subjects in the global south doesn't
> have the deleterious real-world consequences that reenforcing
> erroneous economic hegemony does.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland
> <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
> > Good day,
> >
> > This is not related to gender bias, but an observation I made from
> reading
> > this paper. Table 1 shows the different percentage of overlap between
> > different languistic versions of Wikipedia with the English Wikipedia. Do
> > anybody know if there are studies or reports focussed on that?
> >
> > For example, I notice that the Wikipedia with the less overlap from the
> > above-mentioned table is the Arabic Wikipedia. To me, it seems to
> indicate
> > another sort of bias on the English Wikipedia and other "Western"
> language
> > Wikipedias in not necessarily including biographies from those parts of
> the
> > world. Or maybe there is another "glass ceiling" not based on gender,
> > meaning that somebody from the Middle East for instance needs to be more
> > notable in average to be included on the English Wikipedia comparatively
> of
> > somebody in North America or Europe. Do we have any analysis of that? Is
> > that a question that is brought up in reflexions about bias?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > JP
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 3:55 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The article was discussing the proportion of articles about specific
> >> gender and possible reasons why this situation exists. What I
> >> mentioned was simply one among many potential explanation.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Eduardo Testart <etest...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hi again,
> >> >
> >> > I think the article is not related to paid editing, if you wish to
> >> discuss
> >> > that subject, you should probably open another thread.
> >> >
> >> > It would be nice if the discussion and comments can be kept on topic
> :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > El sept. 22, 2017 3:49 PM, "James Heilman" <jmh...@gmail.com>
> escribió:
> >> >
> >> > How do we know? Those who work extensively in this topic area and are
> >> > good at picking up paid editing make an educated guess. There are well
> >> > known patterns that represent paid editing. We could likely build a
> >> > tool that could look at all BLPs and give a numerical value to the
> >> > percentage that are most likely written for pay. If you look at a
> >> > random group of new BLPs at WP:NPP you will also get a decent idea.
> >> >
> >> > James
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Andy Mabbett
> >> > <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:
> >> >> On 22 September 2017 at 18:24, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> We know that a sizable proportion of articles
> >> >>> about people are paid for by the individual themselves or their
> >> >>> representative.
> >> >>
> >> >> We do? How? And what size is that "sizable proportion"?
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Andy Mabbett
> >> >> @pigsonthewing
> >> >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
> >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> > <mailto

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Women through the glass ceiling: gender asymmetries in Wikipedia

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Good day,

This is not related to gender bias, but an observation I made from reading
this paper. Table 1 shows the different percentage of overlap between
different languistic versions of Wikipedia with the English Wikipedia. Do
anybody know if there are studies or reports focussed on that?

For example, I notice that the Wikipedia with the less overlap from the
above-mentioned table is the Arabic Wikipedia. To me, it seems to indicate
another sort of bias on the English Wikipedia and other "Western" language
Wikipedias in not necessarily including biographies from those parts of the
world. Or maybe there is another "glass ceiling" not based on gender,
meaning that somebody from the Middle East for instance needs to be more
notable in average to be included on the English Wikipedia comparatively of
somebody in North America or Europe. Do we have any analysis of that? Is
that a question that is brought up in reflexions about bias?

Thank you,

JP

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 3:55 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The article was discussing the proportion of articles about specific
> gender and possible reasons why this situation exists. What I
> mentioned was simply one among many potential explanation.
>
> James
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Eduardo Testart <etest...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi again,
> >
> > I think the article is not related to paid editing, if you wish to
> discuss
> > that subject, you should probably open another thread.
> >
> > It would be nice if the discussion and comments can be kept on topic :)
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > El sept. 22, 2017 3:49 PM, "James Heilman" <jmh...@gmail.com> escribió:
> >
> > How do we know? Those who work extensively in this topic area and are
> > good at picking up paid editing make an educated guess. There are well
> > known patterns that represent paid editing. We could likely build a
> > tool that could look at all BLPs and give a numerical value to the
> > percentage that are most likely written for pay. If you look at a
> > random group of new BLPs at WP:NPP you will also get a decent idea.
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Andy Mabbett
> > <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:
> >> On 22 September 2017 at 18:24, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> We know that a sizable proportion of articles
> >>> about people are paid for by the individual themselves or their
> >>> representative.
> >>
> >> We do? How? And what size is that "sizable proportion"?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andy Mabbett
> >> @pigsonthewing
> >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>
>
> --
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> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> ___
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-- 

Jean-Philippe Béland

[imag

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Encyclopedic Writing Guide

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

This should have been posted to the Wikipedia mailing list since it doesn't
have anything to do with the other projects or the movement in general.

JP


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Anna Torres <d...@wikimedia.org.ar> wrote:

> As always!!! Thanks you so much
>
> We will review it and adapt it!!!
>
> Hugs!!
>
> 2017-09-25 13:13 GMT-03:00 Michal Lester <mles...@wikimedia.org.il>:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I’m excited to share with you our new interactive tool *teaching
> > encyclopedic writing*[1]. Encyclopedic writing differs from other kinds
> of
> > writing, such as academic, journalistic, or creative writing. In order to
> > learn how to contribute substantial content to Wikipedia, it is not
> enough
> > to learn the technicalities of using Wikipedia's interface, as taught by
> > the interactive educational software[2]. The Encyclopedic Writing Guide
> was
> > born of a need to instruct participants in our Educational projects, as
> > well as the general public, on the principles of encyclopedic writing,
> and
> > specifically those of Wikipedia. The guide is aimed at teaching the rules
> > and "best practices" that apply at various stages of contributing content
> > to Wikipedia: from choosing a topic for an article, to finding sources,
> to
> > structuring the article, and finally, the required writing style. The
> guide
> > thus teaches how to asses the encyclopedic importance of a topic, how to
> > find independent and reliable sources on that topic, how to structure the
> > information according to Wikipedia's article format, and how to produce
> > neutral and succinct writing.
> >
> > The guide is built as a website. Users are invited to choose between two
> > tracks: a track for expanding existing articles and a track for writing
> new
> > ones. In both tracks, each of the four stages is presented on a different
> > page, where the related information, tips, examples and practical tools
> are
> > concentrated. The information is presented in a basic concise form, and
> the
> > users are invited to open links and pop-ups to obtain more information
> and
> > practical examples.
> >
> > Editing Wikipedia is not just a technical skill. While learning how to
> use
> > Wikipedia's interface is necessary, it is not sufficient in order to
> learn
> > how to contribute substantial content to the platform. The Encyclopedic
> > Writing Guide is the first tool of its kind teaching how to create
> > encyclopedic content.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > *Michal Lester,*
> >
> >
> >
> > *Executive DirectorWikimedia Israel*
> > [1] https://guide.wikimedia.org.il/
> > [2] http://www.wikimedia.org.il/%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%94/
> > ___
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Anna Torres Adell
> Directora Ejecutiva
> *A.C. Wikimedia Argentina*
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Jean-Philippe Béland

[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
soutenant Wikipédia
Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
supporting Wikipedia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees appointments and officer positions

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Congrats to all re-elected!

JP


On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 11:30 AM Shani Evenstein 
wrote:

> Thanks for the update, Christophe. Wishing the board  a productive,
> fruitful and smooth year!
>
> And Happy Wikimania, everyone, especially to all the Wikimedians who
> couldn't make it this year.
> So great that we have live-streaming this year (thanks again, Melody &
> Eddie!) and can participate and support from all ends of the world.
>
> Best,
> Shani.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Christophe Henner 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > As is customary, the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees met right
> > before Wikimania and appointed new trustees and elected its officers.
> >
> > This is a rare occasion as I will not need to write a farewell email. The
> > two Board members that were finishing their terms, María and Dariusz,
> were
> > re-elected after the recent community election. And as of today, James
> > Heilman has formally rejoined the Board of Trustees.
> >
> > Today the Board also elected the officer positions. I am pleased to
> report
> > that the Board has reiterated its trust in the current officers, and both
> > María and I will continue serving as Vice Chair and Chair of the Board,
> > respectively, for another year.
> >
> > It feels a little weird to write this email as there's not much change
> from
> > last year. But I believe that stability and continuity are more than
> > welcome!
> >
> > So please, join me in "welcoming" María, Dariusz, and James as trustees
> of
> > the Wikimedia Foundation Board.
> >
> > María Sefidari began contributing to the Wikimedia projects in 2006 and
> has
> > since served in several roles across the Wikimedia movement. She was a
> > founding member of Wikimedia España and Wikimujeres Grupo de Usuarias,
> and
> > she also helped create Spanish Wikipedia's LGBT Wikiproject. She has
> served
> > on several Foundation governance committees, including the Affiliations
> and
> > Individual Engagement Grants committees. María is a professor in the
> > Digital Communications, Culture and Citizenship Master's degree program
> of
> > Rey Juan Carlos University at the MediaLab-Prado in Madrid, Spain. She
> has
> > previously served on the Board from August 2013 to July 2015, and most
> > recently joined the Board once again in January 2016. She has been
> selected
> > for a second term which will conclude at Wikimania 2020.
> >
> > Dariusz Jemielniak has held a variety of roles on Wikimedia projects,
> > including administrator, bureaucrat, checkuser, steward and ombudsman. He
> > served as the chair of the Wikimedia community’s Funds Dissemination
> > Committee for three terms and is the author of “Common knowledge?: An
> > Ethnography of Wikipedia.” Dariusz is a full professor of Management, the
> > head of the Center for Research on Organizations and Workplaces, and a
> > co-founder of the New Research on Digital Societies (NeRDS) group at
> > Kozminski University. Dariusz has been re-appointed for a second term as
> a
> > Trustee after first joining the Board in July 2015.
> >
> > James Heilman, M.D.,  has helped to found both Wikimedia Canada and
> > WikiProject Med Foundation. As an emergency physician in Cranbrook,
> British
> > Columbia, and a faculty member of emergency medicine at the University of
> > British Columbia, James is an active member of the medical community on
> > Wikimedia projects. James has also been involved in establishing
> > collaborations with several organizations, including Translators Without
> > Borders and the World Health Organization, to improve Wikimedia’s
> coverage
> > of medical content. James previously served on the Board of Trustees from
> > July to December 2015.
> >
> > Christophe Henner has been a leader within the Wikimedia community for
> more
> > than 12 years. Prior to joining the Foundation Board in 2016, he served
> as
> > Board Chair of Wikimedia France, and had been a member of the chapter’s
> > Board since 2007. During this time, he spent nearly three years in Vice
> > Chair and Chair positions. Christophe is currently the Chief Operating
> > Officer (COO) of the Blade Group, a cloud computing company headquartered
> > in France. At Blade, Christophe is scaling up operations to support the
> > company's transition from a start-up to a global company.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources.

JP

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad,  wrote:

> Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to create
> something different from Wikipedia. This is about core content policies.
> Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of view.
> The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects rewrite
> world history to focus on their own local view.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
> > its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so who's culture
> is
> > more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the policies.
> >
> > On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> >
> > > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on _content_, but
> > > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content.
> > > Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that are
> > highly
> > > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies.
> > > Armenian genocide for example.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra  wrote:
> > >
> > > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being global
> > > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
> > > >
> > > > This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture and
> > the
> > > > > preferred standards of presenting information based on article
> > > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research analysis
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > number of images, references, internal links, external links,
> words,
> > > and
> > > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured
> > articles
> > > on
> > > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of
> > > approaches
> > > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We demonstrate
> that
> > > > > high-quality standards in information presentation are not globally
> > > > shared
> > > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence
> determines
> > > > what
> > > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for
> encyclopedic
> > > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for
> encyclopedic
> > > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but local
> and
> > > very
> > > > > subjective.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The number of pillars depends on the language version...
> > > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be pf
> > much
> > > > > importance
> > > > > Ziko
> > > > >
> > > > > John Erling Blad  schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017 um
> > > > 14:42:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Five pillars are moot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the
> > ability
> > > to
> > > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the
> > community
> > > > that
> > > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity for
> > > > banned
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that
> are
> > > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them
> the
> > > best
> > > > > > guide
> > > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes live,
> > > ince a
> > > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the
> > projects,
> > > > but
> > > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community spends
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance
> > and
> > > > > > > process,
> > > > > > > > not increase them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <
> strain...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board
> > > resolution,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the
> > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with
> little
> > > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff
> from
> > > > > en.wp.
> > > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on
> > all
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have,
> > > with
> > > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Can we access this article with no pay wall anywhere?

JP

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:49 AM Gnangarra  wrote:

> to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being global
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
>
> This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture and the
> > preferred standards of presenting information based on article
> > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research analysis of
> the
> > number of images, references, internal links, external links, words, and
> > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured articles on
> > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of approaches
> > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We demonstrate that
> > high-quality standards in information presentation are not globally
> shared
> > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence determines
> what
> > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for encyclopedic
> > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for encyclopedic
> > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but local and very
> > subjective.
> >
>
> On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > The number of pillars depends on the language version...
> > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be pf much
> > importance
> > Ziko
> >
> > John Erling Blad  schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017 um
> 14:42:
> >
> > > Five pillars are moot.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra  wrote:
> > >
> > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the ability to
> > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the community
> that
> > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity for
> banned
> > > and
> > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.
> > > >
> > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that are
> > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them the best
> > > guide
> > > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes live, ince a
> > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.
> > > >
> > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the projects,
> but
> > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community spends a lot
> of
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance and
> > > > process,
> > > > > not increase them.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board resolution,
> > and
> > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the
> projects
> > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with little
> > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff from
> > en.wp.
> > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on all
> the
> > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have, with
> > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to implement, let
> > alone
> > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule pushing
> > > without
> > > > > > local context.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different, just as
> > long
> > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the community about it.
> > > Even
> > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community did
> not
> > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve differently
> > > from
> > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying to
> change
> > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult for
> small
> > > > > > communities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Strainu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad :
> > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core
> content
> > > > > > policies,
> > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial
> > > policies.
> > > > It
> > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them
> updated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not
> be
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> > > > simply
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central
> policies
> > > > should
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > > > - 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I oppose to that. Like that communities with bigger number, i.e. English,
will impose their rules to other communities. It's a basic fundamental
principle of Wikimedia projects since the beginning that every community is
independant,

JP

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:19 PM John Erling Blad  wrote:

> I wonder if deviation away from a central core policy should be banned.
> That view is probably not very popular.
>
> Jeblad
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
> > its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
> > when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
> > probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
> > stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big leap
> > forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
> > policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these
> pages
> > will need to have been translated as well.
> >
> > note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are
> 24
> > > communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment, please
> > > see:
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> > > Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> > > There are three types of issues:
> > > a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but localizing
> > > keeping a project in mind)
> > > b) Enforce them
> > > c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> > remind
> > > me over email or phone call.
> > >
> > > On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > > policies,
> > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies.
> It
> > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > > >
> > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > > something
> > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> simply
> > be
> > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies
> should
> > > be
> > > > localized if necessary.
> > > >
> > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > >
> > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > >
> > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> > baseline
> > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> > Perhaps
> > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > >
> > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original
> research"
> > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point
> of
> > > > view"…
> > > >
> > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > > policies
> > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> > pages,
> > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would
> > have
> > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > >
> > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > >
> > > > Jeblad
> > > > ___
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> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
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> > > 
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyfraud by the British Museum

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Exact replica should not be copyrighted in my opinion since they are not a
"creation of the mind". That being said, the changes made by the one doing
the replica can be copyrighted.

In this case of the museum, I think the person(s) doing the restoration did
a "creation of the mind" since they rebuild it without having an exact
model to copy.

JP

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017, 02:36 Yaroslav Blanter, <ymb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, on Commons I had photographs deleted on the ground that the
> depicted building is a replica of an old building which went out of
> copyright, but the replica is copyrighted (despite my objection). When I
> myself nominated a photograph on the same grounds, it was kept. I do not
> particularly care which one is correct, but it would be great to have
> consistent practice.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Gordon Joly <gordon.j...@pobox.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On 31/07/17 00:06, Jean-Philippe Béland wrote:
> > >  The restoration work is indeed an extensive work, but is it a
> "creation
> > of
> > > the mind", which is necessary for copyright?
> > >
> > > JP
> >
> >
> > The Cutty Sark was almost destroyed by fire, and was rebuilt. I would
> > say it a visitor attraction (of very high quality) that it is a
> > facsimile of the craft that sailed the oceans. I have visited both
> > before and after the fire (and rebuilding). Some timbers would also have
> > replaced before the fire and also planned replacement during the 2007
> > conservation closure period when the fire took place.
> >
> > Sir Arthur Evans also rebuilt an artifact, Knossos, and he used
> > concrete, which was not around in the era 1380–1100 BCE.
> >
> > Has something has been "created" by a mind? I would say yes, to both. In
> > the case of the Cutty Sark, the ship was placed in a new "dry dock" so
> > that visitors can view the hull (for example).
> >
> > Gordo
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyfraud by the British Museum

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

 The restoration work is indeed an extensive work, but is it a "creation of
the mind", which is necessary for copyright?

JP


On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 2:23 PM Gordon Joly  wrote:

> On 29/07/17 02:12, geni wrote:
> > Your mistake is in assuming the only work here is from the 2000 year
> > old sculptor and bronze worker.
>
>
> Cf. The Cutty Sark and Knosos?
>
> Gordo
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediauk-l] Copyfraud by the British Museum

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Ok sorry, I could only read the text of the email, I can't open the images
from here right now, my bad.

JP


On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 28 July 2017 at 13:28, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Maybe I misunderstand what you wrote, but from what I read they do not
> > claim copyright over the objects. They only tell you "do not take
> pictures
> > of it". Even if an object is in the public domain, the actual physical
> > object is still their property and they can do whatever they want with
> it,
> > it does not have to be displayed and they don't have to allow photographs
> > of it even if it is exposed. However, if such photographs str taken, they
> > cannot restrict their distribution. This is not a case of "copyfraud"
> from
> > that point of view.
>
> If you view the images to which Fae linked, the objects are clearly
> labelled "protected by copyright". This has no basis in UK law.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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-- 

Jean-Philippe Béland

[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
soutenant Wikipédia
Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
<https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
supporting Wikipedia
535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediauk-l] Copyfraud by the British Museum

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Exposed = exhibited. My French is taking over.

JP


On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> wrote:

> Maybe I misunderstand what you wrote, but from what I read they do not
> claim copyright over the objects. They only tell you "do not take pictures
> of it". Even if an object is in the public domain, the actual physical
> object is still their property and they can do whatever they want with it,
> it does not have to be displayed and they don't have to allow photographs
> of it even if it is exposed. However, if such photographs str taken, they
> cannot restrict their distribution. This is not a case of "copyfraud" from
> that point of view.
>
> JP
>
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> "On 28 July 2017 at 13:02, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The Tullie House Museum in Carlisle has a number of objects on loan
>> > from the British Museum,[3] and it appears that it is only those
>> > objects that have any restrictions on photography. I took photographs
>> > of two of these (without any flash), as the restrictions are
>> > shockingly obvious cases of copyfraud, and not for any reason that
>> > might protect the works from damage.[1][2] It seems incomprehensible
>> > as to why the British Museum would ever want to make copyright claims
>> > over ~2,000 year old works especially considering they are not a
>> > money-making commercial enterprise, but a National institute and
>> > charity, with a stated objective[4] that "the collection should be put
>> > to public use and be freely accessible".
>>
>> That on of the most egregious cases I've ever seen.
>>
>> I note that the exhibition, according to the web page (your link [3]), is:
>>
>> "Funded by The European Regional Development Fund (ERDF), Northwest
>> Regional Development Agency (NWDA), Renaissance Northwest and Carlisle
>> City Council."
>>
>> I wonder whether they're aware of these false claims? I should imagine
>> Julia Reda would be interested, given that EU money is involved.
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
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> supporting Wikipedia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediauk-l] Copyfraud by the British Museum

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

Maybe I misunderstand what you wrote, but from what I read they do not
claim copyright over the objects. They only tell you "do not take pictures
of it". Even if an object is in the public domain, the actual physical
object is still their property and they can do whatever they want with it,
it does not have to be displayed and they don't have to allow photographs
of it even if it is exposed. However, if such photographs str taken, they
cannot restrict their distribution. This is not a case of "copyfraud" from
that point of view.

JP

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> "On 28 July 2017 at 13:02, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The Tullie House Museum in Carlisle has a number of objects on loan
> > from the British Museum,[3] and it appears that it is only those
> > objects that have any restrictions on photography. I took photographs
> > of two of these (without any flash), as the restrictions are
> > shockingly obvious cases of copyfraud, and not for any reason that
> > might protect the works from damage.[1][2] It seems incomprehensible
> > as to why the British Museum would ever want to make copyright claims
> > over ~2,000 year old works especially considering they are not a
> > money-making commercial enterprise, but a National institute and
> > charity, with a stated objective[4] that "the collection should be put
> > to public use and be freely accessible".
>
> That on of the most egregious cases I've ever seen.
>
> I note that the exhibition, according to the web page (your link [3]), is:
>
> "Funded by The European Regional Development Fund (ERDF), Northwest
> Regional Development Agency (NWDA), Renaissance Northwest and Carlisle
> City Council."
>
> I wonder whether they're aware of these false claims? I should imagine
> Julia Reda would be interested, given that EU money is involved.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] Wikimedia Sverige vs. the Visual Copyright Society in Sweden (BUS)

[Philippe Beaudette]

For reference, I believe Fae refers to the Defense of Contributors Fund:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Legal_Policies#Defense_of_Contributors

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:09 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:

> John,
>
> The WMF has a large legal fund to support volunteers and projects like
> Commons, which from my memory has only ever been paid out on a couple
> of occasions (if anyone has a link to a list, I love to see it). At
> least part of the 89,000 USD mentioned seems suitable for this
> emergency funding, especially as Wikimedia Sverige cannot have been
> expected to plan for these costs.
>
> Has WMF legal been approached to give them a chance to say yes?
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 7 July 2017 at 16:41, John Andersson <john.anders...@wikimedia.se>
> wrote:
> > Today we received some bad news in Sweden. The Swedish Patent and Market
> > Court ruled against Wikimedia Sverige in a lawsuit filed by Visual
> Copyright
> > Society in Sweden (BUS). The case concerns images of public art online,
> more
> > specifically in the case of our website Offentligkonst.se, a service
> created
> > by Wikimedia Sverige using images from Wikimedia Commons.
> >
> >
> > The ruling means that Freedom of Panorama is eroded and the public space
> is
> > diminished. It is a detrimental loss for our projects. Next we will talk
> to
> > our lawyers and WMF legal team to see what our remaining legal options
> are.
> > Our lawyers however believe that success is not very likely if we would
> > decide to move forward.
> >
> >
> > Intensive efforts to advocate for our elected officials to change the
> > outdated and problematic clauses in Swedish copyright law will be
> initiated
> > during the year.
> >
> >
> > We have also started a crowdfunding campaign to cover some of the cost of
> > the legal expenses and fines of about 750,000 SEK stated in the verdict
> > (around 89,000 USD) and for future national and international lobbying
> > efforts. Please consider making a donation at
> http://wikimedia.se/en/donera,
> > even if it is a symbolic sum. Simply  add “BUS” in the comment, and all
> the
> > money will be used for these costs.
> >
> >
> > Some useful links (in Swedish):
> >
> > The legal argumentation from the court:
> > http://www.bildupphovsratt.se/sites/default/files/upload/
> stockholms_tr_pmt_8448-14_dom_2017-07-06.pdf
> >
> > Our press release:
> > https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/wikimedia-sverige/
> pressreleases/domslut-krymper-det-offentliga-rummet-i-sverige-2054679
> >
> > A timeline of what has happened:
> > https://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Offentligkonst.se/Stämning
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> > - - - -
> >
> > John Andersson
> >
> > Executive Director
> >
> > Wikimedia Sverige
> >
> > Phone: +46(0)73-3965189
> >
> > Email: john.anders...@wikimedia.se
> >
> > Skype: johnandersson86
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] James Heilman joins the Board Governance Committee as a volunteer and advisory member

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

James,

That's great! Thank you very much for your involvement.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
Lead Organizer, Wiki Loves Earth 2017 in Canada
User:Amqui


On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 1:41 AM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> James
>
> Do you have a position or preliminary views you would like to share with
> the community about Board Governance?  Is there anything specific you will
> be seeking to look into, or change, or start, or stop.  Are there areas for
> improvement or is everything fine?  In particular, do you think that
> Board-Community relations need any attention from the Governance Committee?
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Anna Stillwell <astillw...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you so much, James. I'm so glad you are here.
> > /a
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you, Nataliia and James.
> > >
> > > This appointment continues a trend of decisions and steps from the BGC
> > > since Nataliia took the committee chair role that I think are good.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed projects

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

I see that Wikilang had more "interested participants" than those that you
are linking and it was purely rejected, what do you mean by majority
support?

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiLang

Thanks,

JP

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 4:58 PM Milos Rancic  wrote:

> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 5:29 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
> > Wikigames is not educational so not within scope.
>
> There are many educational games in the wild. They could also make us
> less boring.
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] General Counsel: Welcome Eileen Hershenov

[Philippe Beaudette]

For nearly a decade, I worked (sometimes closely, sometimes not as closely)
with Michelle Paulson.  She dazzled me with her brilliance and her care for
Wikimedia and Wikimedians around the globe.  Anytime that I needed someone
to fight with me because a Wikimedian was in some way threatened, I never
had to check - because I knew that Michelle was either there ahead of me,
or right besides me.

She is unwavering in her care for Wikimedians - she feels that calling very
deeply.  Wikimedia owes much to her.

But speaking personally, I've seen the toll that it took on her, and I've
felt a touch of it myself.  Michelle - go take a good long break.  You've
earned it.  Well done, my friend.  Well done.

philippe

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <polime...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2017-04-26 15:33 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher <kma...@wikimedia.org>:
>
> > Michelle
>
>
> Michelle was one of my personally favourite employees of WMF with which I
> had occasion to meet face to face - so I wish her great continuation of her
> carrier somewhere else and be missing her.
>
> Hopefully, our new General Counsel will be even better.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

[Philippe Beaudette]

In addition to my previous message

This.

Rogol asks a reasonable question here, and one that concerns me.  The WMF
wields tremendous influence, and attempts to hijack that influence -
however well intentioned and well grounded - should always be stress tested.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> James,
>
> Is there any special relevance to the mission of the Foundation here, or
> this is simply an attempt to use the resources of the Foundation to gain
> publicity for a political cause that you personally favour?
>
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 5:41 PM, James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > No. This is very much a case where the foundation sits and waits.
> >
> > Please take this survey: https://plus.google.com/+
> > jsalsman/posts/HPav2YWUag3
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:01 AM, James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/825395993789157376
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/825403294667436033
> > >
> > > I know this is an unusual question, but when is the last time that the
> > U.S.
> > > judiciary has deployed Federal Marshals against its own executive
> branch?
> > >
> > > https://professional-troublemaker.com/2017/01/29/
> > federal-judge-sends-u-s-marshals-to-prevent-trump-
> > from-enforcing-muslim-ban/
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jim Salsman
> > >
> >
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