Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Pete We realise what the foundation was thinking in its response, I wasnt looking to be negative about the reasonings rather just pointing out that the community has already gone the path of a National event, and we'll be doing so again. The problem isnt just the connections within our community

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I'm not sure what you mean by "knocked back," Gnangarra, but the WMF response to that grant proposal looks thoughtful and aimed at finding a viable solution at some point in the future. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:PEG/WM_AU/Wikiconference_Australia_2015#WMF_comments Andy Mabbett,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

> > > > Why not organise WikiOz, or WikiOceana? > ​​ > > ​We tried that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/WM_AU/Wikiconference_Australia_2015 a​nd was knocked back for the funding needed to make it happen. > > -- > ​be fon​ > > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 6 October 2015 at 01:56, Gnangarra wrote: > the wording is unhappy because I'm unhappy with the process and > there is nothing public about Montreal even being on the radar for > Wikimania I can understand your frustration, and to a degree share it. Perhaps its time to take a sideways step,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Le 04/10/15 21:03, Fæ a écrit : On 4 October 2015 at 18:48, Pavel Richter wrote: ... Let's face some truths here: 5. Dear Wikimania Committee: Your communication of thi s whole thing sucked , big time. Consider yourself scolded. Move on. BACKGROUND Well, yes Pavel, of cou

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

My argument to that is that eventually we'd be in the situation where no bids are viable. The proposed rotation system would hopefully provide enough prep time to alleviate that. On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 at 16:07 Gnangarra wrote: > On 7 October 2015 at 22:54, Joseph Fox wrote: > > > Any way one tries

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 7 October 2015 at 22:54, Joseph Fox wrote: > Any way one tries to obtain a representative sample of something, it's > never going to be totally representative. We are a massive, massive > community, and I'm really not sure direct democracy works in this instance. > This isn't a problem with Wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

r 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki < > steinsplitter-w...@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > A small poll on meta would be enough. > > > > > > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com > > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 + > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

gt; > > On 7 October 2015 at 15:35, Steinsplitter Wiki < > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m: > > > > > > Common sense. > > > > > > > From: richard.symo...@wik

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

5 at 15:35, Steinsplitter Wiki < > steinsplitter-w...@live.com> > wrote: > > > You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m: > > > > Common sense. > > > > > From: richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk > > > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:39:11 +01

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki < > steinsplitter-w...@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > A small poll on meta would be enough. > > > > > > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com > > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 + > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m: Common sense. > From: richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:39:11 +0100 > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost > > Steinsplitter,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

s contents.* On 7 October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote: > A small poll on meta would be enough. > > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 + > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 M

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

A small poll on meta would be enough. > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 + > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost > > If you want the views of everyone on every project

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 6:17 AM, Gregory Varnum wrote: > Given that enWP alone has 123,540 active editors as of this morning,[1] it’s > not exactly a stretch… What percentage of those are credible stakeholders in Wikimania? How many are going to be eligible for Wikimania scholarships? How many

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Given that enWP alone has 123,540 active editors as of this morning,[1] it’s not exactly a stretch… -greg [1]: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias > On Oct 6, 2015, at 3:14 PM, MF-Warburg wrote: > > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000 people? > Am 0

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I do. On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg wrote: > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000 people? > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox" : > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki < > > st

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000 people? Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox" : > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki < > steinsplitter-w...@live.com> > wrote: > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all. > > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki wrote: > To be honest: I am not surprised at all. > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized. They no longer > care about the community, even if there is huge community consensus about > something. > > Why is there a secret commit

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

). --Stein > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:33:01 +0200 > From: zvand...@gmail.com > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost > > 2015-10-05 18:16 GMT+02:00 Nathan : > > > The WCA council was a bureaucratic m

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

To be honest: I am not surprised at all. Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized. They no longer care about the community, even if there is huge community consensus about something. Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask the community. I am disappointed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 6 October 2015 at 15:15, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > Theoretically you are right, you COULD restart the process for a next year. > That is quite a professional attitude. Ask yourself, is that the kind of > effort you can ask of volunteers.. Be reasonable. It is too much effort for > what b

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Hoi, Theoretically you are right, you COULD restart the process for a next year. That is quite a professional attitude. Ask yourself, is that the kind of effort you can ask of volunteers.. Be reasonable. It is too much effort for what benefit ? Thanks, GerardM On 6 October 2015 at 01:18, MZM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Everyone knows that when bidding there is a lot of work to be done that may not produce your desired result, its also common for there to be multiple bids. Something that is being missed is that the bidding process isnt a waste of effort, in creating a bid you also create contacts and connections

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Marc A. Pelletier wrote: >I, for one, am immensely grateful that you and your team (and Manilla's >just as much) chose to start such a hard endeavor for the community's >benefit! I really wish that communications and timing had been better >so that neither of your teams ended up wasting any effort

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

El 05/10/2015 a las 04:18 a.m., Josh Lim escribió: Pavel, with all do respect, I HIGHLY doubt there’s anything to celebrate here. +1 While I agree that the Wikimania process is broken, no one would’ve thought that the way we’d go about fixing that process would be handing that process over

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-05 18:16 GMT+02:00 Nathan : > The WCA council was a bureaucratic mess that seemed almost doomed from its > inception. I think the comparison is inapt. > No, there was hardly any "bureaucracy", the problem was that Council members did not met their tasks, did not show up at votings etc. I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Hi Marc, > Wiadomość napisana przez Marc A. Pelletier w dniu > 05.10.2015, o godz. 23:03: > > I know that the steering committee contacted our team (tentatively, very > early in the year) in part because they were aware that we were already > fully set to host Wikimania in 2017 with the groundw

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Hi Marc, > Wiadomość napisana przez Marc A. Pelletier > w dniu 05.10.2015, o godz. 23:03: > > I know that the steering committee contacted our team (tentatively, very > early in the year) in part because they were aware that we were already > fully set to host Wikimania

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote: > > I think that this is a very unhappy wording; there is nothing wrong > with the bid or the city by itself. As much as I find the wasted > effort scandalous, it is not the fault of our friends from Montreal. > > About the process of the past

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Absolutely right. And the sentence "The revolution will not be community-approved." is the most stupid thing I ever read. When "the government" make significant changes, it has nothing in common with "a revolution". A revolution starts and is led by "the ordinary people" and is illegal per defi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

> On 15-10-05 05:26 AM, Gnangarra wrote: >> I think we are stuck with Montreal and to change now isnt going address the >> problems this decision has created > I think that this is a very unhappy wording; there is nothing wrong with the bid or the city by itself. As much as I find the wasted effor

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

It would be a step called professionalisation, too, if the WMF would use the amount of money they collected and still collecting and pay for writers and content. For sure it would be more professional. But it would not be the Wikipedia project thousands of volunteers work for anymore. And that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

As long as the "cabal" who "took full control" of Wikimania is capable of fully organizing it (or able to set up an organizing team anywhere in the world), I think this is nothing else but a step called: professionalisation. Actually if it works well, it can bring this event to regions and places

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 15-10-05 05:26 AM, Gnangarra wrote: > I think we are stuck with Montreal and to change now isnt going address the > problems this decision has created I... am obviously in a delicate situation responding to this thread, and specifically to that particular statement; but I think it's worth sayin

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Am 04.10.2015 um 20:06 schrieb Ilario Valdelli: On 04.10.2015 19:48, Pavel Richter wrote: 2015-10-04 17:42 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard : Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit : Now, beside head rolling... (uh, ouch :)) what do you suggest to fix that ? So, what happened? The Wikimania commit

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I think we are stuck with Montreal and to change now isnt going address the problems this decision has created, no matter how the poor situation thats been created is remedied every outcome will be a poisoned challis. There are measures IMHO that the WMF should take to ensure the people who creat

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I would not comment the possibility of the community to manage a Wikimania. The community is the main stakeholder of Wikimedia, and as main stakeholder everything should be focused on the community. In the other hand I really think that the current trend of Wikimania is not *sustainable* neither

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

> On 5 Oct 2015, at 05:03, Pavel Richter wrote: > > BUT: That is not the main point. The main point is that Wikimedia now has > replaced a broken process. And we should celebrate that. (And if it turns > out that the new process does not work, than it will be changed again. > Hopefully not by co

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I see the talk page on Meta for this committee hasn't been updated since 2013. I copied James' update to the talk page. I am going to oppose there and ask anyone else interested in reverting this decision to comment on meta[1]. This needs consensus, but more so, a choice, that was never given to th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

What a nonsense. With that justification, any random troll who dislikes the Wikimania location selection process (or anything else) can show up and "volunteer the revolution" which must then be implemented (because they said so!!). Am 04.10.2015 22:31 schrieb "Pavel Richter" : > 2015-10-04 21:55 G

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-04 22:42 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk : > Of course it is the committee to have its say about Wikimania. > > If I understand it well, the main problem was that the bid period was > from August to November 2015, and some groups were working on their > bids. They feel that they could have saved a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Of course it is the committee to have its say about Wikimania. If I understand it well, the main problem was that the bid period was from August to November 2015, and some groups were working on their bids. They feel that they could have saved a lot of work if they had known before. Kind regards

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

The ends should be used as the justification of the means. Never. Fae On 4 Oct 2015 21:31, "Pavel Richter" wrote: > 2015-10-04 21:55 GMT+02:00 Theo10011 : > > > > > Those are some pretty broad leaps Pavel. They were never tasked to take > > that decision. They came to a conclusion that the proc

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-04 21:55 GMT+02:00 Theo10011 : > > Those are some pretty broad leaps Pavel. They were never tasked to take > that decision. They came to a conclusion that the process is broken, they > thought to do away with the process, they picked a winner, and set about > corresponding with them, witho

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Hi I think we are all jumping ahead about the committee's status first of all. It's mandate was never to make such broad changes. If you would read the talk page on meta from 2010 on this issue, there are comments there from me and others where the envisioned goal of this committee was to facilita

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Hello All. Ballsy and sincere mail Pavel, thank you for that and I understand your points, however as a longstanding wikiperson actually volunteering and a believer in the open participatory model which built Wikiprojects, I need to respond and disagree with you in some parts. > I don't see that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 4 October 2015 at 18:48, Pavel Richter wrote: ... > Let's face some truths here: >5. Dear Wikimania Committee: Your communication of thi >s whole thing >sucked >, big time. >Consider yourself scolded. Move on. BACKGROUND Well, yes Pavel, of course "we" are going to move on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 04.10.2015 19:48, Pavel Richter wrote: 2015-10-04 17:42 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard : Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit : Now, beside head rolling... (uh, ouch :)) what do you suggest to fix that ? So, what happened? The Wikimania committee came to the conclusion that the current proce

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

(Sorry, the layout of my last mail was horrible, so here it is again, hopefully better to read:) 2015-10-04 17:42 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard : > Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit : > > Now, beside head rolling... (uh, ouch :)) what do you suggest to fix that ? > > ​ I don't see that anything

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-04 17:42 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard : > Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit : > Now, beside head rolling... (uh, ouch :)) what do you suggest to fix that ? > I don't see that *anything* needs fixing here. So, what happened? The Wikimania committee came to the conclusion that the curr

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit : I thought the mandate of this committee was to facilitate and coordinate bidding, set up policy and best practices. The page on Meta still mention the same as its purpose[1]. When did a committee intended to facilitate an already established, open process m

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 4 October 2015 at 15:17, Mathias Damour wrote: > Le 04/10/2015 05:36, Craig Franklin a écrit : > >> I take your point Pine, but "improving communication with the community" >> seems to have been a WMF priority for as long as I can remember, yet there >> doesn't seem to have been any consistent

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I thought the mandate of this committee was to facilitate and coordinate bidding, set up policy and best practices. The page on Meta still mention the same as its purpose[1]. When did a committee intended to facilitate an already established, open process make the leap to downright owning the proc

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Yes and no. Considering that I've been waiting for months for answers to questions about the WMF Annual Plan, I would say that there is much room for improvement in communications. On the other hand, the WMF Comms department itself seems to more or less ok, and I personally think we'll of WMF's ch

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Le 04/10/2015 05:36, Craig Franklin a écrit : I take your point Pine, but "improving communication with the community" seems to have been a WMF priority for as long as I can remember, yet there doesn't seem to have been any consistent improvement, as we can see here. A new approach and directio

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Yes, that too. Pine On Oct 4, 2015 12:02 AM, "Carlos M. Colina" wrote: > All of this could be read as "let's make a call for community input for > the sake of political correctness, so the community thinks their opinion is > important for usbut we have taken the decision several months ago >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

All of this could be read as "let's make a call for community input for the sake of political correctness, so the community thinks their opinion is important for usbut we have taken the decision several months ago anyway". M. El 04/10/2015 a las 02:38 a.m., Florence Devouard escribió: Le

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I will be happy to learn of any specific and measurable new goals WMF has for movement communications and specific plans for how those goals will be achieved. I agree that vague statements about improved communication are insufficient. Pine On Oct 3, 2015 8:36 PM, "Craig Franklin" wrote: > I tak

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I take your point Pine, but "improving communication with the community" seems to have been a WMF priority for as long as I can remember, yet there doesn't seem to have been any consistent improvement, as we can see here. A new approach and direction to how matters like this are communicated is cle

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

I have to say I'm quite surprised by this as well. It seems a real departure from the norm and even though I've been told first hand that WMF would never choose Australia as a venue for a Wikimania due to cost (and the shift to a Europe/North America/elsewhere rotating format demonstrates this)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Sigh. Decisions being made behind closed doors and then being announced much later than they should have been is a bit of a WMF pattern that I would like to see addressed. My understanding is that Lila is putting some emphasis on improved communications in Q2, and I would be interested in seeing so

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

You could excuse the Perth and Manila bid teams for being very angry at having wasted a lot of time and energy when the decision was apparently made behind closed doors weeks ago. Even if you think the idea of getting rid of the expensive bid process is a good idea (and I do), the way that this wa

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

On 03/10/2015 23:13, Nathan wrote: Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing that Montreal has been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret process that completed this past August. [1] Not so much the Signpost as 梁忠明.[1] KTC [1]: https://lists.wikimedia.org/piper

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

Le 04/10/15 00:13, Nathan a écrit : Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing that Montreal has been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret process that completed this past August. [1] It seems like the community could have been looped into this new method before it