cates a Catalyst 6500. Note, I am talking about cities with populationd
>>> of
>>> 25,000 and larger, I can't speak for the smaller towns.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>
ing about cities with populationd of
25,000 and larger, I can't speak for the smaller towns.
John
-Original Message-
From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:00 AM
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-
al Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Free Municipal Wi-Fi Service Boosts Economic Development in the City of
St. Cloud,
Free Municipal Wi-Fi Service Boosts Economic Development in the City of
St. Cloud, FL
at http://www.digitalcityexpo.com/agenda.htm
--
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serves
the public well then I'll be impressed. Brad
-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-
e mesh in the parks, at the pool, in the
> >>>restaurant district, or anywhere else people may want public access. And
> >>>I'll add that opening up my notebook on a sunny day outside is pretty
> much
> >>>
> >>>
> >>a
> >>
works, has an ROI and doesn't become a boondoggle for tax payers, and
serves
the public well then I'll be impressed. Brad
-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re:
nd St Cloud are just the
> start
> > of some of the bad press we're going to see related to our wireless
> > industry.
> >
> > But then again, I'm a show me guy so if one of these major networks
> actually
> > works, has an ROI and doesn&
---Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
-Original Message-
From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 200
s actually
works, has an ROI and doesn't become a boondoggle for tax payers, and serves
the public well then I'll be impressed. Brad
-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [W
] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
What is really funny is that they used Hewlett Packard. Why not Cisco,
Alvarion, Tranzeo. These are some of the people who are suppose to know
what they are doing.
BTW I am a certified HP Computer and printer tech. but still I think
they know what they are doing
lking about cities with populationd of
> 25,000 and larger, I can't speak for the smaller towns.
>
> John
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:00 AM
>> To: ''WISPA G
t"
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Bob,
It's $9.50 per month per user, after only 50 days of evangelizing. Not
even the SBCs of the world are selling it for that. And as soon as
grandma Jones and Bob down the street
George,
Few people care about socialistic programs so long as their pockets are
affected in a positive way. Our government is not purely capitalistic,
and was never designed to be. Plus, access has become a commodity and a
utility. It's no surprise to me that governments try to regulate and
- Original Message -
From: "George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Travis Johnson wrote:
You guys are all missing the point. If they contract with th
Bob,
It's $9.50 per month per user, after only 50 days of evangelizing. Not
even the SBCs of the world are selling it for that. And as soon as
grandma Jones and Bob down the street figure out what's going on,
they'll sign up, too. So it will only be $4.16/mo. when they hit the
8,000 mark.
Matt and other megahertz counters,
No offense intended, just looking at it from their side.
My post to Bob is the real math. No one wants to believe it might not
work when looking at the $ figures. It's easier for them to count money
than megabits and spectral bandwidth. I'm not a city gove
ubject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>
>Jack Unger wrote:
>
>> A multi-band mesh node does the backhaul on 5 GHz (sometimes with more
>> than one 5 GHz radio). This reduces (but certainly doesn't eliminate)
>> the 2.4 GHz self-interference and o
;
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>
>Matt,
>
>A multi-band mesh node does the backhaul on 5 GHz (sometimes with more
>than one 5 GHz radio). This reduces (but certainly doesn't eliminate)
>the 2.4 GHz self-interference and other-network-interference
with populationd of
25,000 and larger, I can't speak for the smaller towns.
John
>-Original Message-
>From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:00 AM
>To: ''WISPA General List''
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-
>-Original Message-
>From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 09:02 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>
>John J. Thomas wrote:
>> inline...
>
>>
>> F
That's 114 a year, it's 9.50 a sub on a monthly rate.
DSJ
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Bob
Bob Moldashel wrote:
3500 registered users using a network that costs $400K per year to
maintain!!! That's $114 per subscriber! Why not just pay to give
them DSL! LOL
You laugh, but there are ISPs with less than 50 broadband customers.
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Su
ot;
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
A Tropos unit has a 1W transmitter, is capable of being powered via PoE or
via AC delivered through standard outlets as well as a variety of
photo-cell taps including high-voltage ones. When pow
3500 registered users using a network that costs $400K per year to
maintain!!! That's $114 per subscriber! Why not just pay to give them
DSL! LOL
--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll
What is really funny is that they used Hewlett Packard. Why not Cisco,
Alvarion, Tranzeo. These are some of the people who are suppose to know
what they are doing.
BTW I am a certified HP Computer and printer tech. but still I think
they know what they are doing. KICKBACK
You have a Good Day n
Chris cooper wrote:
The SR9 cards might be interesting for this app...
Probably not much help Chris.
As you and every wisp who has deployed more than a few AP's in urban
density knows, there is not enough spectrum available in all the
unlicensed bands combined to service the vast population
Here in Atlanta you can't use 2.4 unless it is indoors. In fact, you
have to get out 90+ miles before the noise floor drops off enough to
even think about it.
-Matt
Need I say more.
George
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Travis Johnson wrote:
You guys are all missing the point. If they contract with the local
WISP, they don't get to "create new jobs" for the muni... instead, they
are just helping a local business grow with local tax money.
Welcome to politics in the wireless arena. :(
Travis
Microserv
Exact
i
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I'll go
ntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Webster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Jack,
I hate to say it but didn'
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
- Original Message -
From: "Dawn DiPietro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
> http://www.peplink.com
Matt Liotta wrote:
Jack Unger wrote:
1. The attenuation between 2.4 GHz nodes is not enough to prevent each
node from hearing multiple other nodes as noise (thus more packet
retransmissions and more reduced throughtput). This requires
understanding link budgets, signal-to-noise ratios, and r
t;>>
>>> Where can I find the parts to make the same thing in a single package?
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>> chris cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why not just buy the cards, boards, antennas and make a few yours
day, April 24, 2006 12:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Then there are companies like airmatrix that charge less than 1k per
node.
The key with mesh is density, and many mesh startup's fail because they
Underbuild their networks.
-
Jack,
Not a problem. This discussion needed the information and no one else
posted it. I have been reading up on this network since
Ken went to the MuniWireless Show in Atlanta. Unfortunately some of the
articles I read are no longer available.
Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
Jack Unger wrote:
Dawn
oards, antennas and make a few yourself?
>>
>> c
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:46 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject:
Jack Unger wrote:
1. The attenuation between 2.4 GHz nodes is not enough to prevent each
node from hearing multiple other nodes as noise (thus more packet
retransmissions and more reduced throughtput). This requires
understanding link budgets, signal-to-noise ratios, and receiver
threshold sp
The SR9 cards might be interesting for this app...
chris
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
OK Matt, being a
OK Matt, being a creative person, you can then suggest the use of DSL
for the backhaul...
jack
Matt Liotta wrote:
How do you raise the antennas above the trees without building really
tall poles? Trees around here are 60-70ft.
City-owned fiber only exists in places with
How do you raise the antennas above the trees without building really
tall poles? Trees around here are 60-70ft.
City-owned fiber only exists in places with enough density that there
aren't any trees to begin with. Residential areas generally have lots of
trees and no reason for fiber runs.
From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud PepLink and HP info.
Using standard CPE (PePLink)is very good but using Tropos nodes is very,
very
Then the 5 GHz backhaul network must have antennas that are raised above
the trees. Another option is to backhaul with city-owned fiber.
Backhauling on 900 MHz is a possible third option. All it takes is rf
knowledge, creativity, and cooperation.
jack
M
a [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
You make the assumption that the Tropos nodes have little to no
attenuation between them, which is a poor assumption. A useful exerc
this.
Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
-Original Message-
From: Joe Laura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startu
o: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud PepLink and HP info.
Using standard CPE (PePLink)is very good but using Tropos nodes is very,
very bad. Very bad because they only have one single 2.4 GHz radio so
after 2 or
intermapper will be a plus. Joe
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Webster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
> HP likes to design these Tropos netwo
Jack Unger wrote:
A multi-band mesh node does the backhaul on 5 GHz (sometimes with more
than one 5 GHz radio). This reduces (but certainly doesn't eliminate)
the 2.4 GHz self-interference and other-network-interference level.
You can't use 5 Ghz to go through trees here in Atlanta, so that w
Matt,
A multi-band mesh node does the backhaul on 5 GHz (sometimes with more
than one 5 GHz radio). This reduces (but certainly doesn't eliminate)
the 2.4 GHz self-interference and other-network-interference level.
The reason the big muni projects often select Tropos is that Tropos has
the b
g.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud PepLink and HP i
ilto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
$173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
c
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mail
WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
George,
Unfortunately, every time that the public hears about problems with a
wifi network (muni or otherwise) it is going to reflect badly on all of
us. After reading the article, it is pretty clear that the writer
In recent post I explained that here in Atlanta you can only use a
single 2.4 channel because of the noise floor. How is a multi-band mesh
node going to work?
Maybe there is a reason the big muni projects keep selecting Tropos.
-Matt
Jack Unger wrote:
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Then there are companies like airmatrix that charge less than 1k per
node.
The key with mesh is density, and many mesh startup's fail because they
Underbuild their net
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud PepLink and HP info.
Using standard CPE (PePLink)is very good but using Tropos nodes is very,
very bad. Very bad because they only have one single 2.4 GHz radio so
after 2 or 3 hops, all the throughput capability is gone not to mention
that the interfere
ailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM
>> To: ''WISPA General List''
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>>
>> $173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
>>
&g
All,
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050831a.html
"As part of the HP Metro-scale Wi-Fi solution, HP forged an alliance
with Tropos Networks and Aptilo Networks to help large communities of
all kinds - cities,
government agencies, large medical center and universities - achie
ailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM
>> To: ''WISPA General List''
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>>
>> $173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
>>
&g
George,
Unfortunately, every time that the public hears about problems with a
wifi network (muni or otherwise) it is going to reflect badly on all of
us. After reading the article, it is pretty clear that the writer
picked out one sorehead and blew his problems up into something big.
The Be
http://www.peplink.com/060306.php
Date: March 7, 2006*
PePLink announces as the official Citywide Wireless CPE provider for
City of St. Cloud in Florida *
*Hong Kong, Mar 7, 2006 - *PePLink, a leader in citywide WiFi wireless
broadband devices today announced the City of St. Cloud, FL, a sub
George wrote:
Almost every wisp today is using 2.4 to reach the customer and 5 gig
for infrastructure and high end customers. Are you saying that wisps
have to move off the existing spectrum and replace their equipment?
Here in Atlanta you can't use 2.4 unless it is indoors. In fact, you
hav
SPA General List"
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless they are closely involved with the design of the
network, Talking spectrum use here.
As
No, they are selling higher powered CPE devices that act as a bridge
connecting to the muni network and then act as a local AP to help lower
powered laptops effectively use the service.
-Matt
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
roflol
The city is selling "signal boosters" (I read that a
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless they are closely involved with the design of the
network, Talking spectrum use here.
As for going along wit
John J. Thomas wrote:
inline...
First off, the WISPs have to have the guts to talk to the city. Many simply
refuse to do so, and are probably going to get the Muni WiFi shoved down their
throats.
I don't want to turn this into a battle of ideals.
But how many local wisps have been chose
roflol
The city is selling "signal boosters" (I read that as amps) to anyone that
wants them for $170?
Oh man, this deployment is gonna come CRASHING down. Hard.
It's really too bad these people are too ignorant, stubborn or just plain
stupid to call any of us in to help.
sigh
Marlon
(50
day, April 24, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Jack,
I hate to say it but didn't we say I told you so There is just not
enough spectrum to design networks like this to work with anything but
dedicated CPE devices with outdoor antennas. Si
AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless they are closely involved with the design of the
network, Talking spectrum use here.
First off, the WISPs h
inline...
>-Original Message-
>From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:40 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>
>I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the mu
ROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
> Jack,
> I hate to say it but didn't we say I told you so There is just not
> enough spectrum to design networks like this to work w
ROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Unfortunately, this may be one of the first of many such muni problems
that I've been forcasting for years. Muni wireless can be done correctly
and WISPs (IM
oneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Unfortunately, this may be one of the first of many such muni problems
that I've been forcasting for years. Muni wireless can be done correctly
and WISPs (IMHO) should always try (when allowed) to play a positive
role in proper network design and operat
George,
Just a few brief responses and ideas (I'm getting ready to go flying
across the country again).
1. Design - Yes, local WISPs must be allowed to participate in the
network design for the reason you mention. Spectrum must be managed to
avoid both interfering with the WISPs operation an
You mean it's not already :-)
John
>-Original Message-
>From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:36 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>
>I'll go ahe
PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM
>To: ''WISPA General List''
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
>
>$173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
>
>c
>
>-Original Message-
>From
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless they are closely involved with the design of the
network, Talking spectrum use here.
As for going along with free muni wifi, How is a wisp going to operate
if a muni is offering for free or at cut rate pricing
I'll go ahead and predict that San Francisco will be a disaster.
-Matt
Jack Unger wrote:
Unfortunately, this may be one of the first of many such muni problems
that I've been forcasting for years. Muni wireless can be done
correctly and WISPs (IMHO) should always try (when allowed) to play a
Unfortunately, this may be one of the first of many such muni problems
that I've been forcasting for years. Muni wireless can be done correctly
and WISPs (IMHO) should always try (when allowed) to play a positive
role in proper network design and operation however most muni networks
are incorre
$173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
c
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
http://ne
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