nd it.
Looks like I'm still on the hunt for the definitive font-sizing
technique then.
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ect me on that point. But if you've used the 62.5% resize command
then all your subsequent text sizing should be larger than 1 em anyway,
for the reason stated above.
Not sure if this helps, but hey.
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nged is simply building a house on sand. Sooner
or later it's coming down around your ears.
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s than they might
otherwise want or need to.
I'm not convinced by my own argument, I'm just throwing the idea out
there for discussion, is all.
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kup accordingly, and see if it helps. It
might not, but at least then you'll know that your problem is definitely
NOT caused by using a reserved name, and can cross it off the list of
suspects.
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esting to provide an
accurate gauge of what the majority of people consider a comfortable
reading size, then the fact that different browsers specify different
default sizes slightly undermines that.
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ult, only smaller and harder to read.
True enough. Of course 'harder to read' is subjective and doesn't just
work in a downward direction. Content text set at 120 pixel height would
be pretty hard to read as well ;-)
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At 14:24 (London time), on 7/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>Actually there is no material difference in nominal browser default sizes.
>http://lists.css-discuss.org/mailman/private/css-d/2006-January/057975.html
Very interesting link, thanks Felix.
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Rick
t;use default text size, and people
who want it smaller than that (because they find the design ugly at
default sizes) will know what to do and will probably already have
amended their default settings". But it seems that most won't.
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If one has never gone down the blog route before it's all a bit daunting
and techno-befuddling, so any advice is welcome.
Many thanks as always.
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with regular text in the actual served page, so there should be no
problem. Is that correct?
(As you can tell, I'm starting to get mildly out of my regular territory
here...)
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tp://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd";>
Does this not throw Explorer into quirks mode? I was under the
impression that anything (other than whitespace, maybe) before the
doctype had this effect.
Is PHP code an exception
On 13/8/07 (15:27) minim said:
>Rick, PHP shouldn't affect IE at all because it gets calculated on
>the server, so by the time the page gets to the browser, it's 100%
>HTML/XHTML/whatever - no PHP is seen on the client-side at all.
>
>Cheers,
>
>C
A ha. Good to
o be GammaSlamma <http://tinyurl.com/
yuchvh> which strips out the gamma information. I say 'reportedly'
because although I've downloaded it and plan to give it a whirl, I have
not, as yet, had opportunity to try it out.
But just thought in c
a
breach of web standards?
Perhaps this whole issue is me getting too focused on the nitty gritty,
but I'm in the process of moving from 'old-school' to web standards and
am trying very hard to get it 'right'. This is just one of the goal
posts that I
r hand,
are an official M$-approved technique and as such should be around for
the foreseeable future.
But sometimes the CSS that needs to go into the Conditionally Commented
stylesheet isn't valid -- IE's filters being a prime e
;t going to care if my IE stylesheet
doesn't validate if, indeed, they even understand the concept). I use
them primarily because they segue nicely into my deep-seated anal
retention (everything subdivided and in its own file).
Best...
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***
route rather than doing the style-hiding/applying in the stream of the
main CSS file via hacks... but that's a personal preference. And it's a
recent preference, too -- in the past I've sure used my share of hacks
in an all-in-one CSS file.
So no finger wagging here. One thing's
t:
@import url("allBrowsersStyle.css");
/* The following (non-valid) import rule will be seen by IE (Win) 5-7*/
@import ieWin-fixes.css;
The IEWin5-7 import hack was culled from this page:
<http://imfo.ru/csstest/css_
uch embedded icon information /are/ removed, however, and
can mean considerable savings in file size.
>Although it may be gunk on the web, this information is essential to
>achieving consistent high quality in print.
Indeed, primarily colour profiles.
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Rick Lecoat
*
esign with larger text than if I design with smaller text.
Would a Bottom Up approach not have more chance of giving everybody what
they want to see?
If you're still reading by this point, thank you.
I look forward to hearing everybody's opinions!
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Rick Lecoat
[1] I am not talki
every site would have content text set to a base size of 100%, and
every user would have their browser tuned to their own preferred text size.
But clearly that's not the world that we currently inhabit. How best to
navi
e, doesn't it make more sense to design in such a way that the
person more likely to want to resize is the person more likely to know how to?
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t keep asking questions and revisiting these things, then we'd
probably still be creating table-based layouts, right?
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hose who want to make it
smaller (eg. those without accessibility issues) are *perhaps* less
likely to know how to. And *perhaps* that's one argument for designing
with smaller type as a baseline.
I could be way off base of course, but that's why I w
reason to assume
>they do too.
Correct. Nor is it a reason to assume that they do not.
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suit their needs.
But now I'm repeating myself, so I think I'll shut up for a while (apart
from a couple of other replies).
Blimey, this turned into quite a thread. But then the font sizing thing
always evokes passionate reactions I guess.
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find it difficult to
give your arguments the credit that they are perhaps due whilst you
won't permit others the same debating strategies that you employ yourself.
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ed that it
should be considered so in the absence of evidence to the contrary, and
maybe I'll have to leave it at that.
Or start saving up to commission a massive study.
Nah.
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norm is pointless.
>
>I'd like a foolproof way of pleasing my client, without upsetting
>anyone.
>
>is there a way?
Tony, next time I think I'll get you to write my original post.
Clarity. I like clarity. ;-)
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Rick Lecoat
sizes have actually put their design-money where their
mouth is. *That does not make the points they raise wrong*, but it means
that it feels a bit like having my dress sense criticised by someone
wearing a dirty t-shirt and torn sweat pants.
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t bang on I think.
Thanks for your views!
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[1] A very subjective judgement call, of course.
[2] Again, that's subjective.
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re (every time I pull down the Image menu in photoshop it
looks the same as last time, unless I've upgrade photoshop inbetween).
Content, by contrast, is by nature unfamiliar.
The more familiar the text in question, the less help the reader requi
r,
higher-resolution screens than the average, should be that they are
therefore more inclined to make their type larger? Yet you appear to
argue the opposite.
Can you clarify this point, because it's been bugging me.
Cheers.
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work for whoever brings their business my way, provided
they are not a walking ethical outrage.
So that makes me a commercial operation, albeit that my biggest web
client is a public sector entity here in the UK.
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Rick Lecoat
d design-malleable, and I also decided to
opt for Expression Engine. I've barely had a chance to scratch the
surface yet (other projects keep getting in the way -- curse those fee-
paying clients!) but so far I've not seen anything that makes me regret
my choice. And there is a free cut-down versi
ul/li would be best.
Anyone have any suggestions?
TIA
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m, so thanks again.
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se values should have
some weight given to them, but H2 implies a hierarchical structure that
is not there.
Maybe a tag to replace the ?
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). I
find both to be really good sources of information. Much of their
content is way beyond my knowledge, which I take to be a good sign --
magazines I can grow into, so to speak.
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t. (Their limited set up pull-down formatting options lacks
yet still includes . Ugh).
Thanks to everyone for your invaluable for your suggestions.
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asily, but
I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to
indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case.
Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter?
Content first? Or navigation first?
Cheers;
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Rick L
pointed out, consistency is vital, but that is
true of any site design, whether accessible or not.
Thanks again to all who threw in their 2 cents.
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s can commonly call up a handy
list of all the links on a page, so those in the copyright section would
also be presented in that list (albeit probably at the end of the list)
without the user necessarily needing to 'read' their way d
aders, and any plain text equivalent presented in the name of
accessibility would simply be harvested instead. And I prefer to avoid
jscript if I can anyway.
Is there a way out what seems, to my inexperienced eyes, like a catch-22
situation?
Cheers;
--
Rick L
ore quote marks).
I assume that they can read them perfectly easily -- browsers can, after
all -- but it'd be good to know for sure.
Same question for screen readers.
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27;things to clarify' list; thanks everyone.
(Of course, I rarely have control over the client's mail server, still
less their email client. I suppose that becomes their problem).
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rce code of the page for mailto links. The fact that the
text is hidden when it gets to the browser is neither here nor there, surely?
If you are talking about actually hiding markup from certain agent
types, I'd certainly like to know your method.
On 17/10/07 (16:20) Patrick said:
>Screen readers run on top of normal browsers like IE of Firefox
Ah, I did *not* know that -- I thought that they were a sort of self-
contained browser themselves. Thanks for that heads-up.
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Rick Lec
oceed
with more pages.
<http://sandbox.sharkattack.co.uk/novaRebuild/working.html>
It's really my first stab at a semantic markup, fully-CSS, accessible
site; it's also my first ever attempt at an elastic layout, so be merciful.
le
to trawl through external style sheets or not; nobody was able to provide one.
So the question is still open for me, and I'm curious; what is your
source of information for thinking that the big G only looks at inline CSS?
Cheers;
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***
lace, however, so I don't
know why the validation error has vanished, unless the original error
report was a mistake.
Are you using a different validator to me?
<http://tinyurl.com/2y7pnf>
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Rick Lecoat
***
L
es will let it whizz through its
frames, but on some machines (eg girlfriend's iBook) it crawls past.
>looks outstanding for a first effort!
Ah, now THAT just made my day. Thank you.
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List Guidelin
ing, well, unstyled in IE. That's
fixed now but I'm not sure how to specify media types when most of my
stylesheets are referenced by @import rules from inside a single
stylesheet called import.css.
If I assign a media type to import.css, will that propogate down to th
meone looking at the code will. Seeing
bonjour they would know it was italicised but not necessarily know why.
IMO that means that semantic class names are better than plain bold or
italic. But there may be times when there is no semantic meaning to
convey at all, in which ca
ly equally to the bold/strong debate.
Rule of thumb: think to yourself, regardless of how it *looks* on the
screen, what does the text I'm marking up *mean*?
If I'm off base here I'm sure others will correct me.
Best regards;
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Rick Lecoat
**
h-22
>situation?
Just by way of an update on this issue, there was an interesting related
article on A List Apart a couple of days ago by Roel Van Gils.
<http://www.alistapart.com/articles/gracefulemailobfuscation>
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Rick Lecoat
*
ts pointing me to different
locations (toilets, food hall, car park, etc -- not necessarily in that
order!) might work very well, but it is still useful, to me at least, to
find one of those big floorplan maps with a You Are Here arrow that
gives me the wider picture.
ce with this book and can advise me of whether or
not it falls foul of the crimes that Ross points out.
In summary, then, does anyone recommend me hanging onto Visual
Quickstart Guide: JavaScript and Ajax (6th Ed.) or should I just ditch
it and buy Jeremy Keith's Dom Scripting book instea
ws of it on Amazon
etc since I posted to the list). Still, if anyone has an opinion on the
Visual Quickstart book as well, I'd be interested to hear it, just so I
know whether it's worth glancing at *at all*.
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**
echniques and practices at a later date.
I find un-learning hard to do, and I'll avoid having to do so if I can.
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Cynthia gave an error telling you to add
titles to the abbr tags. You added them and the error went away.
In what way was your initial report mistaken? Surely this is what one
would expect to happen? Or am I missing/misreading somet
Definitive Guide by Eric Meyer;
CSS Mastery: Advanced Web Standards Solutions by Andy Budd & others;
HTML Mastery by Paul Haine;
Web Accessibility by Jim Thatcher & others
and
Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug
I haven't delved into javascript yet so I don't have any
recommend
e:
body { background-color: red}
then the page's background colour would, rather unpleasantly, be red.
I think that's right...
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cuts that keyboard users or screenreader users are
likely to wish to utilise.
I don't know whether that is the general consensus or not, nor can I
say whether that was Mike's reason for not using acesskey, but it
makes sense to me.
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Rick Lecoat
*
after the
quotation.
Is this actually un-semantic or is it just slightly counter-intuitive?
Can a DT be 10 times the length of its DDs?
Alternatively, should I be looking at a blockquote/paragraph
combination instead? (that doesn't feel as elegant because it lacks
the self-contai
in it because it's a modern beast deserving of some respect).
I don't support IE5, any more than I support WWII radios. Both are
obsolete technology
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sing alt
text as a tooltip. That leaves alt, and the link's title. Both feel
like they should be something along the lines of "Company X is a
member of This Organisation", but I'm wary of giving essentially the
same information twice, in which case it
hat's it's meaning.
Thanks Krystian, that makes sense.
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. I believe that the newer version provides
an alternative implementation method that removes the JS reliance, but
I could be wrong about that.
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On 5 May 2008, at 19:04, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Lecoat
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:26 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Definition lists for testimonials
Hi, I need to mark up a
ly, when you said "seems to be compliant to me" were you referring
to the brainstormsandraves example you gave me, or where you referring
to my markup? And if so, which version (ie. with the ul or without)?
Thanks again;
--
Rick Lecoat
*
width ratio. So unless your browser
viewport is precisely the same ratio of heigh to width as the flash
file, you will get 'dead space' either top and bottom or on each side.
Like if you watch a widescreen film on a tra
#x27; to refresh my memory about the cite element
and discovered that it appears to not be listed in the index at all.
Attribute: yes, element: no. Weird.
Thanks again, and to everyone else who responded.
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Rick Lecoat
***
L
to be
doing. Just sitting nicely underneath your main content? Or anchored
to the bottom of the browser window at all times? Or something else?
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the VCR for them are clichés, sure, but based on a lot of truth.
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ntage unit for ems with respect to
page structure -- a column set to 60% width is more self-explanatory
than a column set to 44.5ems inside a 74em wrapper. This mixing of ems
and percentages has never led to any problems AFAIK.
--
Rick L
ltips
in my pages. This means that the alt text is there for those who need/
want it, but image-savvy users aren't pestered by yellow text boxes
popping up every time they happen to mouse over an image.
Is this (eg: title="" /> something that the panel would condone or co
tweaking the markup to correct IE's implementation would appear to be
the logical choice, especially since it does not break the semantics
of the page.
On the other hand, I would be interested to hear of any problems that
my method creates for screen reade
t Mail's way of indicating quoted material. If I
remember correctly from many years bck, Eudora did it the ame ay,
though personally I prefer the traditional carat (>).
Happy to chat about email clients but probably best to take it off-
list, lest wrath be inc
n (ie. not wrapped in anything other than, say, a 'header' )?
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st put the logo image in a and keep the H1 for the
page's own title.
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ure supposition, so don't take my word for it. Plenty of
very knowledgeable people on this list can fill in those blanks.
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ng to manipulate our search engine", and really
that's not so far from web standards, is it?
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give them a negative margin-left
equalling the padding amount. This brings the text of the link back to
its original position.
eg.
a {padding: 0.5em; margin-left: -0.5em;}
a:hover, a:focus {background-color: whatever;}
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Rick Lecoat
then they get expunged if
javascript is enabled.
If the user has anything other than IE5 the elements are never seen
and the javascript is not called.
AFAIK Microsoft has not made any mention of Conditional Comments being
retired in future versions of IE, so it should be fairly futu
. I was wondering if anyone
had developed a script or something to automate these changes to
settings with a single click?
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just appearance, it is also engineering, architecture
and usability.
Hear hear.
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it -- and
plenty of designers use the tag to semantically group collections of
semantically-connected text chunks/images etc in all manner of
creative ways.
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www.sharkattack.co.uk
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On 13 Jun 2008, at 12:07, Robert O'Rourke wrote:
Where's the character dialogue example?
Just above the heading for '10.3.1 Visual rendering of lists'
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Rick Lecoat
www.sharkattack.co.uk
***
L
o great an obstacle.
Still, (X)HTML is always going to be more accessible than Flash in a
head-to-head contest. And I'm no Flash expert, so I might be off-base
on the accessibility improvements.
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Rick Lecoat
www.sharkattack.co.uk
*
use UTF-8) I don't need to encode the entities, I can just
type them straight into the markup. Is that correct?
Will it validate? (I normally use an xhtml 1.0 strict doctype).
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www.sharkattack.co.uk
***
List Gu
f assistive technology is another
issue, but one that I can't answer.
I seem to recall reading that SWFObject 2 has an alternative method of
implementation that doesn't require javascript (v1 only had the
javascript option) but I've not toyed with it since version
WFObject option anyway.
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ave the opportunity to revisit the
decision soon.
I wonder to what extent the browser vendors sought feedback re. the
pros and cons of zooming, because certainly Georg's comment would seem
to apply to zooming as much as it did elastic/e
ng to continuously scroll back and
forth horizontally (because the width of the text block is wider than
the viewport) to be an annoyance?
If so then okay, but I do not believe that you are typical in this
regard.
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Rick Lecoat
www.sharkattack.
the whole design in characters". I have assumed that you are referring
to an elastic design; if not then please set me straight.
Best regards;
--
Rick Lecoat
www.sharkattack.co.uk
[1] irrespective of whether that's set by the designer or the user
***
the div. Then you can
either insert an img element or apply background image to some other
element that's already inside the div. Where the img ends the tiled
image takes over, hopefully seamlessly.
HTH
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Rick Lecoat
www.sharkattack.co.uk
*
tion at all.
Sorry, this is drifting OT, so I'll shut up.
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www.sharkattack.co.uk
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, basing design on a fixed amount of text is asking for
trouble if you ask me. What if you need more text later on?
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