Stephan Richter wrote:
On Wednesday 23 November 2005 16:41, Martin Aspeli wrote:
I think there needs to be a solution for making quick, preferably TTW
customisation of UI templates. As Tres pointed out, this shouldn't add a
performance overhead and lead to maintenance woes for those who k
Hi Philipp
[...]
> Stephan Richter wrote:
> > I totally disagree. I, as a Zope 3 developer, have to learn
> Zope 2 and Five.
>
> What makes you think so? I, for one, have not the slightest
> clue of how zope.wfmc works.
> Still I'm able to contribute to Zope 3, am I not? If I
> refactor someth
Hi Zope3 developers
[...]
> On Thursday 24 November 2005 00:41, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> > At least no one is expecting to make such big changes by
> yourself. Being
> > stubborn and refusing to do further contributions, be they
> large or small,
> > isn't going to get us anywhere. The
Roger Ineichen wrote:
> > What makes you think so? I, for one, have not the slightest
> > clue of how zope.wfmc works.
> > Still I'm able to contribute to Zope 3, am I not? If I
> > refactor something, I might even
> > have to touch zope.wfmc, but for the most part this could be
> > very superficia
Chris McDonough wrote:
> I really, really appreciate Phil taking the time to propose this no
> matter what happens.
Chris, I won't bother you with a detailed answer (esp. to some points that were
not quite
correct about Zope 3 not caring about backward compat). I just wanted to say
that I also
r
Roger Ineichen wrote:
> Btw, do we really count developer where are voting but never
> contributed to the z3 trunk? I think normaly yes. But this is a
> proposal where I think should be up to the Zope3 developer
> to decide.
Uh, why only Zope3 developers? This affects the whole Zope community!
Re
Hi Philipp
> Roger Ineichen wrote:
> > > What makes you think so? I, for one, have not the slightest
> > > clue of how zope.wfmc works.
> > > Still I'm able to contribute to Zope 3, am I not? If I
> > > refactor something, I might even
> > > have to touch zope.wfmc, but for the most part this coul
Julien Anguenot wrote:
[snip]
And what about the acceptance of Zope3 *outside* the Zope community ?
Zope3 will look like more complicated and confusing doing a merge.
People building on Zope 3 will presumably mostly be working with a Zope
3 release, which will not include Zope 2. So, they can
Hi Philipp
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Philipp von Weitershausen
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:33 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: zope3-dev@zope.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> zope-dev@zope.org
> Subject: RE: [Zope3-dev]
Stephan Richter wrote:
[snip]
So you think it is better to loose the existing Zope 3 developers in
anticipation of more community involvement? This would be Zope 3's death blow
as we know it, because it would stall Zope 3 for several months. Honestly, I
rather have less exposure and keep the co
Martijn Faassen wrote:
...
Outside the Zope community Zope 3 doesn't have such a great image
indeed. It's either ignored, or it's actively rejected. There is a lot
of competition with other frameworks. Zope 3 is currently not doing
particularly well in this competition, something we need to f
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Sounds crazy, I know. But I'm serious. Looking for your comments at:
http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/ReuniteZope2AndZope3InTheSourceCodeRepository
Some comments after reading this thread:
This may very well be not the right time for this codebase merge to
happen --
Hi
[...]
>
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
> > ...
> > Outside the Zope community Zope 3 doesn't have such a great image
> > indeed. It's either ignored, or it's actively rejected.
> There is a lot
> > of competition with other frameworks. Zope 3 is currently not doing
> > particularly well in t
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Thursday 24 November 2005 00:41, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
At least no one is expecting to make such big changes by yourself. Being
stubborn and refusing to do further contributions, be they large or small,
isn't going to get us anywhere. The people who are so f
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Wednesday 23 November 2005 16:41, Martin Aspeli wrote:
I think there needs to be a solution for making quick, preferably
TTW customisation of UI templates.
[snip]
You should have a look at CPSSkins for Zope 3 (developed by the Z3ECM
Hi,
I saw a new architectur of Zope 3, In Zope 3 integrate concept of adapter. I
think that is good idea, but I think that concept is false beacause in
python language don't support the class "interface", is necessary for
respect the Design Pattern. Do you think who would be better to do to evolve
Hi All,
Not sure if this is the right place to report this, please let me know
if I should do so somewhere else...
I have a form as follows:
...
...
Now, I do the following with a zope.testbrowser.browser:
browser.getForm(name='form_name').getControl(' Do Something ').click()
However,
Martijn Faassen wrote:
my impression is that if you want TTW editing you'll have to do it on
an application level using what's available in the framework
(utilities, ZPT, ...) Zope3 allows you to do this already and in a
much cleaner way than with zope2..
That's great! How to make this wo
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Really, I'm quite tired of trench wars like Zope 2 vs. Zope 3. Like Martijn
said, we need
to come together, not apart. I'm starting to get the feeling that some Zope 3
developers
rather see Zope 2 die than embrace some of its experience and community.
At th
Hi there,
Roger Ineichen wrote:
[snip]
I really think we should stop draw a vision where we will get a
on cklick migration for custom projects. Then this is what people
normaly expectt if we speak about a migration path.
What vision is this? I don't think anybody has been proposing this
visi
On Thursday 24 November 2005 01:39, Chris McDonough wrote:
> - There doesn't seem to be as much of a commitment in the
> Z3 community to backwards compatibility as
> there is for Z2. Notes like Stephan's last one where
> he says "I have made deep changes in the past that affect
> the entir
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
[snip]
It is a bit like this: the zope2 community wants the zope3 technology
and zope3 wants the zope2 community.
I like this analysis. :)
I think the question about the technology should be treated as such on a
technical level, by bridging the technical gap (Five,
On Thursday 24 November 2005 01:18, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> > > Why would it stall Zope 3 development?
> >
> > Because you would immediately loose a bunch of contributors.
>
> You still haven't given me a good reason why we would actually *lose*
> contributors.
Because they will not bot
On Thursday 24 November 2005 01:18, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> > For me, anything that adds code to the file structure is clutter. Period.
>
> You're over-irrationalizing here. We all know that the Zope 2 code
> structure has flaws, but it's not like Zope 3 is perfect either. I don't
> thin
On Thursday 24 November 2005 01:18, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> Can you read and potentially fix doctests? I *know* you can :). Tell me,
> other than the fact that you keep saying you refuse to learn Five, makes
> fixing a Five doctest different from a, say, zope.app.tree doctest? It's
> not
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Stephan Richter wrote:
I will always vote -1 on such a move. I just simply punishes all those early
adopters of Zope 3 and throw it in their face. Great appreciation!
You know I can turn this around and say that by focusing all development on
Zope 3, t
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
Martijn Faassen wrote:
my impression is that if you want TTW editing you'll have to do it on
an application level using what's available in the framework
(utilities, ZPT, ...) Zope3 allows you to do this already and in a
much cleaner way than with zope2..
That's g
On Thursday 24 November 2005 03:57, Roger Ineichen wrote:
> > And if
> > not, I have some trusty community members who can help me on a branch.
>
> That's excatly what we don't whant. We are not able to develope
> and ask others for fixes. This whon't work.
Yep, I was implying that in my post. I w
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
[snip]
It is a bit like this: the zope2 community wants the zope3 technology
and zope3 wants the zope2 community.
I like this analysis. :)
I think the question about the technology should be treated as such
on a technical level, by bridgin
I'd like to do a few simple fixes to events in Zope 3.2 before it's
too late:
- Add the source to IObjectCopiedEvent, per
http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/478
I believe I received a +1 on this
- Make OrderedContainer.updateOrder send an IObjectModifiedEvent.
Today when you change the
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
Martijn Faassen wrote:
my impression is that if you want TTW editing you'll have to do it
on an application level using what's available in the framework
(utilities, ZPT, ...) Zope3 allows you to do this already and in a
much cleaner way th
I think this change can possibly make sense when we have replaced Zope
2 authentication with Zope 3s, and when we have replaces Zope 2
publisher with Zope 3s and when we have replaced the Zope 2 traversal
with Zope3s, and maybe a couple of other things.
At that point, Zope2 will more or less be Zo
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
[snip]
I think you're mixing the notions of "community" and of "community of
interests".
I don't think that the goal is to merge communities, the goal is to make
good software and not have different entities fight on framework
technologies. It is to stir common *int
On Thursday 24 November 2005 03:57, Roger Ineichen wrote:
> reason what we should do for Zope2 developer so that they will
> contribute more. I think you don't speak for all of them and belive that
> a good skilled developer is able to get ver easy into the Zope3
> development.
This is a really go
Florent Guillaume wrote:
I'd like to do a few simple fixes to events in Zope 3.2 before it's
too late:
- Add the source to IObjectCopiedEvent, per
http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/478
I believe I received a +1 on this
- Make OrderedContainer.updateOrder send an IObjectModifiedEvent.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Lennart Regebro wrote:
> I think this change can possibly make sense when we have replaced Zope
> 2 authentication with Zope 3s, and when we have replaces Zope 2
> publisher with Zope 3s and when we have replaced the Zope 2 traversal
> with Zope3s, and
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Florent Guillaume wrote:
> I'd like to do a few simple fixes to events in Zope 3.2 before it's too
> late:
>
> - Add the source to IObjectCopiedEvent, per
> http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/478
> I believe I received a +1 on this
>
> - Make O
On Thursday 24 November 2005 07:13, Florent Guillaume wrote:
> I'd like to do a few simple fixes to events in Zope 3.2 before it's
> too late:
>
> - Add the source to IObjectCopiedEvent, per
> http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/478
> I believe I received a +1 on this
>
> - Make OrderedContain
On Thursday 24 November 2005 05:36, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> I don't think that threats to leave and portrayals of utter doom are a
> fair way to discuss this, Stephan. I must say I find it extremely ironic
> to hear from you that stalling Zope 3 for several months is a death blow
> to Zope 3 -- wh
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Wednesday 23 November 2005 10:16, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Sounds crazy, I know. But I'm serious. Looking for your comments at:
http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/ReuniteZope2AndZope3InTheSourceCodeRepository
I am -1. If I could I would veto
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
...
People keep telling Zope2 developers that the inclusion of Zope3
doesn't mean you have to touch it, if you don't use it it is just inert
code that won't cause any change in your Zope2 development style.
Hee hee. And they believed it? Do they wanna buy a bridge
Jim Fulton wrote:
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
...
People keep telling Zope2 developers that the inclusion of Zope3
doesn't mean you have to touch it, if you don't use it it is just
inert code that won't cause any change in your Zope2 development style.
Hee hee. And they believed it? Do they
Florent Guillaume wrote:
I'd like to do a few simple fixes to events in Zope 3.2 before it's too
late:
[snip]
Please give me your opinion on this quickly
+1
Regards,
Martijn
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On Nov 24, 2005, at 8:37 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
I recall a slightly different discussion I was involved in. I
remember Zope 2 core developers worrying about the inclusion of
Five in Zope 2.8; they were worried they'd need to maintain its
codebase.
I was one of these people. Since the
Chris McDonough wrote:
On Nov 24, 2005, at 8:37 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
I recall a slightly different discussion I was involved in. I
remember Zope 2 core developers worrying about the inclusion of Five
in Zope 2.8; they were worried they'd need to maintain its codebase.
I was one of
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
[snip]
I think you're mixing the notions of "community" and of "community of
interests".
I don't think that the goal is to merge communities, the goal is to
make good software and not have different entities fight on framework
technologies.
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Sounds crazy, I know. But I'm serious. Looking for your comments at:
http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/ReuniteZope2AndZope3InTheSourceCodeRepository
I love this idea! But I think it's still a bit too early to pursue it.
In the next release cycle, I want to, finally, r
On Nov 24, 2005, at 6:42 AM, Stephan Richter wrote:
On Thursday 24 November 2005 01:39, Chris McDonough wrote:
- There doesn't seem to be as much of a commitment in the
Z3 community to backwards compatibility as
there is for Z2. Notes like Stephan's last one where
he says "I have made d
Laurence Rowe wrote:
Jean-Marc,
Just trying to understand your scheme here, but taking Martin's
example of a current zpt macro, how would I replace the macro with a
view and retain the ability to customise it TTW?
From my limited understanding of your cps skins package it seems that
it is
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:17:02 -0800, Jim Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Some projects that I'd really like to see worked on soon:
- Use a common publisher framework
- Use a common security framework
- Share common ZPT implementations
Can I add "use a common datetime implementation"? ;)
I
Jim Fulton wrote:
> Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
>
>> Sounds crazy, I know. But I'm serious. Looking for your comments at:
>> http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/ReuniteZope2AndZope3InTheSourceCodeRepository
>
>
> I love this idea!
Ok.
> But I think it's still a bit too early to pursue it.
Perhaps
erik wrote:
Hi,
HI!
I'm just a tiny little bit confused here, what is a view and what is a resource
- in Zope2 and in Zope3 ? ;-)
there's a notion of resource already in Zope3 that encompasses: images,
files and templates
in cpsskins (zope3) the notion also encompasses more cpsski
> I'm just a tiny little bit confused here, what is a view and what is a
resource - in Zope2 and in Zope3 ?
>
> Maybe I just don't know enough about Zope3 (or 2), but to me what JM calls a
view is a resource, and vice
> versa... anyway, I think it's a good idea to have the conceptual discussion
Jean-Marc,
Just trying to understand your scheme here, but taking Martin's example
of a current zpt macro, how would I replace the macro with a view and
retain the ability to customise it TTW?
From my limited understanding of your cps skins package it seems that
it is perfect for site manage
On Thu, Nov 24, 2005 at 12:01:58PM +0100, Fabrice Monaco wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I saw a new architectur of Zope 3, In Zope 3 integrate concept of adapter. I
> think that is good idea, but I think that concept is false beacause in
> python language don't support the class "interface", is necessary for
>
Julien Anguenot wrote:
Some Zope3 developers don't care about Zope2 and this is fair enough in
my point of view. Zope2 starts to get old and appears to be really a
mess compared to Zope3 in *2005*, plus it's not such an attractive
platform as it used to be couple of years ago. (Don't get me wrong
On Thu, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:03:35PM +0800, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> > I'd love to participate in some sprints on these.
>
> Me too.
PyCon Dallas 2006 is only 3 months away and would be a great opportunity
for such sprints. There's nothing about Zope here yet:
http://wiki.python.org/moin
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Thu, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:03:35PM +0800, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
I'd love to participate in some sprints on these.
Me too.
PyCon Dallas 2006 is only 3 months away and would be a great opportunity
for such sprints. There's nothing about Zope here yet:
http://wi
On Thu, Nov 24, 2005 at 06:59:46PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Cool to hear you're giving Five related talks. Is there any description
> of these available online? (not that it's likely I'll be able to attend
> PyCon, but I'm very curious)
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2006/Talks
They're
Martin Aspeli wrote:
A lot of people go with Plone initially based strongly on how easy it is to
customise and re-use elements of the UI. I really don't want to take that
incentive away from them. Yet, as I understand, if global_contentmenu.pt was
implemented as a View, they couldn't customise
On Thursday 24 November 2005 09:17, Jim Fulton wrote:
> Now (well, after the December release :), I think it's time to revisit
> what the core of Zope 3 is and how we manage the repository. There has
> been a trend to manage important components separately and link them in. I
> see this trend con
Martin Aspeli wrote:
On 24 Nov 2005, at 18:53, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
Martin Aspeli wrote:
A lot of people go with Plone initially based strongly on how easy
it is to
customise and re-use elements of the UI. I really don't want to
take that
incentive away from them. Yet, as I under
On Nov 24, 2005, at 6:04 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
Hi All,
Not sure if this is the right place to report this, please let me
know if I should do so somewhere else...
No idea, sounds reasonable.
I have a form as follows:
...
...
Now, I do the following with a zope.testbrowser.browser
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