Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

[Dan Parrish]

Is it still SNMP v1?

--dan



On 8/13/2019 4:36 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
6 or 8 months ago.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of 
Dan Spitler
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 11:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

SNMP! When did that (finally) happen?

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 6:22 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
We have been using it in production since July 30, 2018.  Much testing before 
then.
Nearly 100 subs on them so far and no issues in current firmware.  Early beta 
FW had some memory leaks in the ONU but I don’t think we have had a single 
trouble call in months from a fiber customer.
Overall, it does a good job of moving the bits downstream without a lot of fuss.
We use UNMS to monitor.  You can use SNMP instead if you want.
ONU in Router mode can route a full gig.  Bridge mode can do a gig (obviously).
We are using the NanoG instead of the Loco because I like the screens and they 
come with gig POE adapters which we use.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 8:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:Af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

Has anyone out there had this in a production environment for any period of 
time? Good, bad, ugly?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

6 or 8 months ago.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Dan Spitler
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 11:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

SNMP! When did that (finally) happen?

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 6:22 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
We have been using it in production since July 30, 2018.  Much testing before 
then.
Nearly 100 subs on them so far and no issues in current firmware.  Early beta 
FW had some memory leaks in the ONU but I don’t think we have had a single 
trouble call in months from a fiber customer.
Overall, it does a good job of moving the bits downstream without a lot of fuss.
We use UNMS to monitor.  You can use SNMP instead if you want.
ONU in Router mode can route a full gig.  Bridge mode can do a gig (obviously).
We are using the NanoG instead of the Loco because I like the screens and they 
come with gig POE adapters which we use.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 8:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:Af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

Has anyone out there had this in a production environment for any period of 
time? Good, bad, ugly?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

[Dan Spitler]

SNMP! When did that (finally) happen?

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 6:22 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
wrote:

> We have been using it in production since July 30, 2018.  Much testing
> before then.
>
> Nearly 100 subs on them so far and no issues in current firmware.  Early
> beta FW had some memory leaks in the ONU but I don’t think we have had a
> single trouble call in months from a fiber customer.
>
> Overall, it does a good job of moving the bits downstream without a lot of
> fuss.
>
> We use UNMS to monitor.  You can use SNMP instead if you want.
>
> ONU in Router mode can route a full gig.  Bridge mode can do a gig
> (obviously).
>
> We are using the NanoG instead of the Loco because I like the screens and
> they come with gig POE adapters which we use.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, August 12, 2019 8:08 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber
>
>
>
> Has anyone out there had this in a production environment for any period
> of time? Good, bad, ugly?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

We have been using it in production since July 30, 2018.  Much testing before 
then.
Nearly 100 subs on them so far and no issues in current firmware.  Early beta 
FW had some memory leaks in the ONU but I don’t think we have had a single 
trouble call in months from a fiber customer.
Overall, it does a good job of moving the bits downstream without a lot of fuss.
We use UNMS to monitor.  You can use SNMP instead if you want.
ONU in Router mode can route a full gig.  Bridge mode can do a gig (obviously).
We are using the NanoG instead of the Loco because I like the screens and they 
come with gig POE adapters which we use.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 8:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UFiber

Has anyone out there had this in a production environment for any period of 
time? Good, bad, ugly?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, I re-characterized it as their UPS truck should not have to pay to use my 
toll road because the truck has feathers and not books inside...

From: Rex-List Account 
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 10:15 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

One of those when a phone call is not a phone call cases so they don’t have to 
pay.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 3:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

 

No, in highly technical cases, it boils down to which set of experts can 
convince the judge or jury.  

 

I saw a highly technical case where Sprint owed a party $4M but convinced a 
judge they were actually owed money.  And the appeals courts would not near it. 
 

 

From: Jon Langeler 

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 1:16 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

 

I’m not backing any party, but wouldn’t it typically -be right- if someone were 
to sue someone else and they flat out won? But beyond that, both companies are 
the biggest fixed wireless innovatorsneither are “really really bad people” 

Jon Langeler

Michwave Technologies, Inc.

 


On Sep 1, 2018, at 2:41 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

  Yup lots of wasted money and resources that could be spent making our 
industry better instead of trying to tear us apart and divide us while wasting 
resources.

   

  Thanks ubiquiti!  Company of the year for sure!!!

   

  -Sean

   

   

  On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:37 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Easy to make all kind of specious and spurious claims when filing a 
lawsuit.  

You can sue anyone for anything, doesn’t matter if your claims are true or 
not.  

And of course conspiracy and RICO get thrown in like floor mats and 
undercoating.  

 

Then there is a series of answers and amendments.

Then a bunch of scheduling.

 

Then perhaps a year or two later discovery may start.

Then motions and hearings on motions

 

Like it is pretty easy to set someone’s house on fire.  

Just takes a match.  

Much more difficult to do the disaster recovery.  

And the person with the match has to do that disaster recovery some times.  

 

If the defendants are lucky they will win attorney fees.  

One thing is certain, everybody gets to spend lots of money on this.  

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 11:35 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

 

Well since they're in the spotlight the IRS may take a gander at them

 

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 11:43 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

  I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going 
after as much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO law 
which is a civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking treble (3x) 
damages which is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to around $300million or 
more.

   

  It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.

   

  -Sean

   

   

  On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews  
wrote:

Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my 
super-duper 
quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?

On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
> I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there 
contract 
> with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making 
profit 
> and helping cambium
> 
> I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
> 
> There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
> 
> Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett  <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
> 
> don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and 
competitors
> for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
> commodity hardware that you own outright.
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> -Sean
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
> 
> UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware 
and
> wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
> 
> The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  
Don’t
> hate on something that sells well because it is easy to 
use.
> 
> __ __
> 
> No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

No, in highly technical cases, it boils down to which set of experts can 
convince the judge or jury.  

I saw a highly technical case where Sprint owed a party $4M but convinced a 
judge they were actually owed money.  And the appeals courts would not near it. 
 

From: Jon Langeler 
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 1:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

I’m not backing any party, but wouldn’t it typically -be right- if someone were 
to sue someone else and they flat out won? But beyond that, both companies are 
the biggest fixed wireless innovatorsneither are “really really bad people” 


Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Sep 1, 2018, at 2:41 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:


  Yup lots of wasted money and resources that could be spent making our 
industry better instead of trying to tear us apart and divide us while wasting 
resources.

  Thanks ubiquiti!  Company of the year for sure!!!

  -Sean


  On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:37 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Easy to make all kind of specious and spurious claims when filing a 
lawsuit.  
You can sue anyone for anything, doesn’t matter if your claims are true or 
not.  
And of course conspiracy and RICO get thrown in like floor mats and 
undercoating.  

Then there is a series of answers and amendments.
Then a bunch of scheduling.

Then perhaps a year or two later discovery may start.
Then motions and hearings on motions

Like it is pretty easy to set someone’s house on fire.  
Just takes a match.  
Much more difficult to do the disaster recovery.  
And the person with the match has to do that disaster recovery some times.  

If the defendants are lucky they will win attorney fees.  
One thing is certain, everybody gets to spend lots of money on this.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 11:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Well since they're in the spotlight the IRS may take a gander at them

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 11:43 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

  I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going 
after as much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO law 
which is a civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking treble (3x) 
damages which is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to around $300million or 
more.

  It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.

  -Sean


  On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews  
wrote:

Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my 
super-duper 
quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?

On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
> I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there 
contract 
> with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making 
profit 
> and helping cambium
> 
> I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
> 
> There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
> 
> Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett  <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
> 
> don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and 
competitors
> for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
> commodity hardware that you own outright.
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> -Sean
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
> 
> UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware 
and
> wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
> 
> The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  
Don’t
> hate on something that sells well because it is easy to 
use.
> 
> __ __
> 
> No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that 
part
> on your own.
> 
> __ __
> 
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
> 
> __ __
> 
> *From:* AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jon Langeler]

I’m not backing any party, but wouldn’t it typically -be right- if someone were 
to sue someone else and they flat out won? But beyond that, both companies are 
the biggest fixed wireless innovatorsneither are “really really bad people” 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Sep 1, 2018, at 2:41 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> 
> Yup lots of wasted money and resources that could be spent making our 
> industry better instead of trying to tear us apart and divide us while 
> wasting resources.
> 
> Thanks ubiquiti!  Company of the year for sure!!!
> 
> -Sean
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:37 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> Easy to make all kind of specious and spurious claims when filing a lawsuit. 
>> You can sue anyone for anything, doesn’t matter if your claims are true or 
>> not. 
>> And of course conspiracy and RICO get thrown in like floor mats and 
>> undercoating. 
>>  
>> Then there is a series of answers and amendments.
>> Then a bunch of scheduling.
>>  
>> Then perhaps a year or two later discovery may start.
>> Then motions and hearings on motions
>>  
>> Like it is pretty easy to set someone’s house on fire. 
>> Just takes a match. 
>> Much more difficult to do the disaster recovery. 
>> And the person with the match has to do that disaster recovery some times. 
>>  
>> If the defendants are lucky they will win attorney fees. 
>> One thing is certain, everybody gets to spend lots of money on this. 
>>  
>> From: Steve Jones
>> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 11:35 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>  
>> Well since they're in the spotlight the IRS may take a gander at them
>>  
>>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 11:43 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>> I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going after 
>>> as much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO law which 
>>> is a civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking treble (3x) 
>>> damages which is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to around 
>>> $300million or more.
>>>  
>>> It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.
>>>  
>>> -Sean
>>>  
>>>  
>>>> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my super-duper 
>>>> quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?
>>>> 
>>>> On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
>>>> > I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there contract 
>>>> > with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit 
>>>> > and helping cambium
>>>> > 
>>>> > I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
>>>> > 
>>>> > There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
>>>> > 
>>>> > Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
>>>> > 
>>>> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett >>> > <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
>>>> > 
>>>> > don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors
>>>> > for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
>>>> > commodity hardware that you own outright.
>>>> > 
>>>> > Just sayin'
>>>> > 
>>>> > -Sean
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>>> > mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
>>>> > 
>>>> > UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and
>>>> > wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
>>>> > 
>>>> > The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t
>>>> > hate on something that sells well because it is easy to use.
>>>> > 
>>>> > __ __
>>>> > 
>>>> > No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part
>>>> > on your own.
>>>> > 
>>>> > __ __
>>>> > 
>>>> > Jim Bouse
>>>> > Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>>> > 979-985-5912
>>>> > http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>> > 
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Robert]

It's a great look into their sense of ethics...

On 9/1/18 9:42 AM, Sean Heskett wrote:
I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going 
after as much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO 
law which is a civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking 
treble (3x) damages which is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to 
around $300million or more.


It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.

-Sean

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews > wrote:


Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my
super-duper
quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?

On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
> I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there
contract
> with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making
profit
> and helping cambium
>
> I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
>
> There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
>
> Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
> >> wrote:
>
>     don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and
competitors
>     for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
>     commodity hardware that you own outright.
>
>     Just sayin'
>
>     -Sean
>
>
>
>     On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>     mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>
>> wrote:
>
>         UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity
hardware and
>         wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
>
>         The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably
well.  Don’t
>         hate on something that sells well because it is easy to
use.
>
>         __ __
>
>         No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do
that part
>         on your own.
>
>         __ __
>
>         Jim Bouse
>         Owner - Brazos WiFi
>         979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>         __ __
>
>         *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
>         >> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>         *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
>         *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>         >>
>         *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>         __ __
>
>         I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber
stuffs
>         aren't even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics
>         right? Tell me they're not in the glass game itself.
Tell me God
>         they're not selling tough fiber or anything like that to
rot in
>         the ground
>
>         __ __
>
>         On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
>         >>
wrote:
>
>             I can generally get a building permit to use a public
>             utility ROW or the side of a street for almost free.

>
>             Perhaps use a customers home for everything in
exchange for
>             service etc. 
>
>             
>
>             I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go. But I like the
>             simplicity of AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON
>             based competitors and not having to deal with
splitters. 
>
>             
>
>             And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non
>             regulated for profit startup, Calix is not the way
to go.
>
>             However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>
>             
>
>             
>
>             *From:*Colin Stanners 
>
>             *Sent:*Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
>
>             *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
>             *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>             
>
>             ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal
>             fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS,
>             heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 -
15,000
>             including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure
that it
>             would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>
>             
>
>             PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing
splice
>   

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Bill Prince]

Except for the attorneys. They are the recipients of everyone else's money.


bp


On 9/1/2018 11:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
One thing is certain, everybody gets to spend lots of money on this. 



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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Sean Heskett]

Yup lots of wasted money and resources that could be spent making our
industry better instead of trying to tear us apart and divide us while
wasting resources.

Thanks ubiquiti!  Company of the year for sure!!!

-Sean


On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:37 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Easy to make all kind of specious and spurious claims when filing a
> lawsuit.
> You can sue anyone for anything, doesn’t matter if your claims are true or
> not.
> And of course conspiracy and RICO get thrown in like floor mats and
> undercoating.
>
> Then there is a series of answers and amendments.
> Then a bunch of scheduling.
>
> Then perhaps a year or two later discovery may start.
> Then motions and hearings on motions
>
> Like it is pretty easy to set someone’s house on fire.
> Just takes a match.
> Much more difficult to do the disaster recovery.
> And the person with the match has to do that disaster recovery some
> times.
>
> If the defendants are lucky they will win attorney fees.
> One thing is certain, everybody gets to spend lots of money on this.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 01, 2018 11:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> Well since they're in the spotlight the IRS may take a gander at them
>
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 11:43 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going
>> after as much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO law
>> which is a civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking treble (3x)
>> damages which is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to around
>> $300million or more.
>>
>> It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my super-duper
>>> quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?
>>>
>>> On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
>>> > I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there
>>> contract
>>> > with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit
>>> > and helping cambium
>>> >
>>> > I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
>>> >
>>> > There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
>>> >
>>> > Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett >> > <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors
>>> > for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
>>> > commodity hardware that you own outright.
>>> >
>>> > Just sayin'
>>> >
>>> > -Sean
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>> > mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and
>>> > wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
>>> >
>>> > The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t
>>> > hate on something that sells well because it is easy to
>>> use.
>>> >
>>> > __ __
>>> >
>>> > No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part
>>> > on your own.
>>> >
>>> > __ __
>>> >
>>> > Jim Bouse
>>> > Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> > 979-985-5912
>>> > http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>> >
>>> > __ __
>>> >
>>> > *From:* AF >> > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>>> > *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
>>> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>>> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>> >
>>> > __ __
>>> >
>>> > I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs
>>> > aren't even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics
>>> > right? Tell me they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Easy to make all kind of specious and spurious claims when filing a lawsuit.  
You can sue anyone for anything, doesn’t matter if your claims are true or not. 
 
And of course conspiracy and RICO get thrown in like floor mats and 
undercoating.  

Then there is a series of answers and amendments.
Then a bunch of scheduling.

Then perhaps a year or two later discovery may start.
Then motions and hearings on motions

Like it is pretty easy to set someone’s house on fire.  
Just takes a match.  
Much more difficult to do the disaster recovery.  
And the person with the match has to do that disaster recovery some times.  

If the defendants are lucky they will win attorney fees.  
One thing is certain, everybody gets to spend lots of money on this.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 11:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Well since they're in the spotlight the IRS may take a gander at them

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 11:43 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

  I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going after as 
much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO law which is a 
civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking treble (3x) damages which 
is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to around $300million or more.

  It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.

  -Sean


  On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews  wrote:

Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my super-duper 
quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?

On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
> I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there contract 
> with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit 
> and helping cambium
> 
> I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
> 
> There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
> 
> Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett  <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
> 
> don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors
> for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
> commodity hardware that you own outright.
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> -Sean
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
> 
> UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and
> wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
> 
> The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t
> hate on something that sells well because it is easy to use.
> 
> __ __
> 
> No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part
> on your own.
> 
> __ __
> 
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
> 
> __ __
> 
> *From:* AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
> 
> __ __
> 
> I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs
> aren't even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics
> right? Tell me they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me God
> they're not selling tough fiber or anything like that to rot in
> the ground
> 
> __ __
> 
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> 
> I can generally get a building permit to use a public
> utility ROW or the side of a street for almost free. 
> 
> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for
> service etc. 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the
> simplicity of AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON
> based competitors and not having to deal with splitters. 
> 
> 
> 
> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non
> regulated for profit startup, Calix is not the way to go.
> 
> However I do not tr

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Steve Jones]

Well since they're in the spotlight the IRS may take a gander at them

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 11:43 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going after
> as much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO law which
> is a civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking treble (3x)
> damages which is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to around
> $300million or more.
>
> It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my super-duper
>> quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?
>>
>> On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
>> > I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there contract
>> > with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit
>> > and helping cambium
>> >
>> > I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
>> >
>> > There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
>> >
>> > Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
>> >
>> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors
>> > for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
>> > commodity hardware that you own outright.
>> >
>> > Just sayin'
>> >
>> > -Sean
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>> > mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and
>> > wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
>> >
>> > The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t
>> > hate on something that sells well because it is easy to use.
>> >
>> > __ __
>> >
>> > No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part
>> > on your own.
>> >
>> > __ __
>> >
>> > Jim Bouse
>> > Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> > 979-985-5912
>> > http://www.brazoswifi.com
>> >
>> > __ __
>> >
>> > *From:* AF > > > *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>> > *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
>> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > >
>> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>> >
>> > __ __
>> >
>> > I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs
>> > aren't even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics
>> > right? Tell me they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me God
>> > they're not selling tough fiber or anything like that to rot in
>> > the ground
>> >
>> > __ __
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > I can generally get a building permit to use a public
>> > utility ROW or the side of a street for almost free. 
>> >
>> > Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for
>> > service etc. 
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the
>> > simplicity of AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON
>> > based competitors and not having to deal with splitters.
>> 
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non
>> > regulated for profit startup, Calix is not the way to
>> go.
>> >
>> > However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > *From:*Colin Stanners 
>> >
>> > *Sent:*Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
>> >
>> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> >
>> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal
>> > fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS,
>> > heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000
>> > including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it
>> > would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice
>> > cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks
>> > pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers
>> > on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be
>> > coming soon... 
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> >  

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Sean Heskett]

I’m not sure what Tim is referring to but ubiquiti is for sure going after
as much money as possible because they filed the suit under RICO law which
is a civil law used against the mofia.  They are seeking treble (3x)
damages which is what RICO allows.  I think it adds up to around
$300million or more.

It’s a ridiculous assault on our community.

-Sean


On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:05 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my super-duper
> quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?
>
> On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
> > I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there contract
> > with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit
> > and helping cambium
> >
> > I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
> >
> > There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
> >
> > Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett  > > wrote:
> >
> > don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors
> > for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
> > commodity hardware that you own outright.
> >
> > Just sayin'
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> > mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
> >
> > UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and
> > wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
> >
> > The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t
> > hate on something that sells well because it is easy to use.
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part
> > on your own.
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > Jim Bouse
> > Owner - Brazos WiFi
> > 979-985-5912
> > http://www.brazoswifi.com
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > *From:* AF  > > *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> > *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  > >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs
> > aren't even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics
> > right? Tell me they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me God
> > they're not selling tough fiber or anything like that to rot in
> > the ground
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > I can generally get a building permit to use a public
> > utility ROW or the side of a street for almost free. 
> >
> > Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for
> > service etc. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the
> > simplicity of AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON
> > based competitors and not having to deal with splitters. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non
> > regulated for profit startup, Calix is not the way to go.
> >
> > However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > *From:*Colin Stanners 
> >
> > *Sent:*Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
> >
> > 
> >
> > ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal
> > fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS,
> > heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000
> > including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it
> > would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
> >
> > 
> >
> > PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice
> > cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks
> > pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers
> > on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be
> > coming soon... 
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > If you have one strand going out there, you hang a
> > switch and give all 30 homes active E. 

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck Hogg]

No

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 7:05 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my super-duper
> quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?
>
> On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
> > I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there contract
> > with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit
> > and helping cambium
> >
> > I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong
> >
> > There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet
> >
> > Very interested to see how this case unfolds though
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett  > > wrote:
> >
> > don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors
> > for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
> > commodity hardware that you own outright.
> >
> > Just sayin'
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> > mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
> >
> > UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and
> > wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 
> >
> > The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t
> > hate on something that sells well because it is easy to use.
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part
> > on your own.
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > Jim Bouse
> > Owner - Brazos WiFi
> > 979-985-5912
> > http://www.brazoswifi.com
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > *From:* AF  > > *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> > *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  > >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs
> > aren't even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics
> > right? Tell me they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me God
> > they're not selling tough fiber or anything like that to rot in
> > the ground
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > I can generally get a building permit to use a public
> > utility ROW or the side of a street for almost free. 
> >
> > Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for
> > service etc. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the
> > simplicity of AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON
> > based competitors and not having to deal with splitters. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non
> > regulated for profit startup, Calix is not the way to go.
> >
> > However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > *From:*Colin Stanners 
> >
> > *Sent:*Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
> >
> > 
> >
> > ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal
> > fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS,
> > heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000
> > including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it
> > would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
> >
> > 
> >
> > PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice
> > cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks
> > pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers
> > on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be
> > coming soon... 
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > If you have one strand going out there, you hang a
> > switch and give all 30 homes active E. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > Each home needs a drop. 
> >
> > So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or
> > an SFP. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you
> > have no shared bandwidth, it 

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Robert Andrews]

Ok, that's interesting and I certainly didn't see that in my super-duper 
quick scan..   UBNT has a contract with cambium?


On 08/31/2018 01:26 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there contract 
with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit 
and helping cambium


I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong

There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet

Very interested to see how this case unfolds though

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett > wrote:


don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors
for conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their
commodity hardware that you own outright.

Just sayin'

-Sean



On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:

UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and
wrap it in a shiny box with a slick UI. 

The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t
hate on something that sells well because it is easy to use.

__ __

No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part
on your own.

__ __

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

__ __

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

__ __

I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs
aren't even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics
right? Tell me they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me God
they're not selling tough fiber or anything like that to rot in
the ground

__ __

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I can generally get a building permit to use a public
utility ROW or the side of a street for almost free. 

Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for
service etc. 



I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the
simplicity of AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON
based competitors and not having to deal with splitters. 



And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non
regulated for profit startup, Calix is not the way to go.

However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...





*From:*Colin Stanners 

*Sent:*Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal
fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS,
heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000
including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it
would be worth doing for only 30 homes.



PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice
cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.



Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks
pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers
on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be
coming soon... 









On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a
switch and give all 30 homes active E. 



Each home needs a drop. 

So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or
an SFP. 



With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you
have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared
bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...







*From:*Colin Stanners 

*Sent:*Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



That's the main reason, and it branches into
upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in
a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a
 

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Timothy Steele]

I read through that case there sueing more to get out of there contract
with cambium then money and the end user is suspected of making profit and
helping cambium

I'm NOT saying UBNT is right or wrong

There is just not enough information out yet to get super angry yet

Very interested to see how this case unfolds though

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:17 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors for
> conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their commodity hardware
> that you own outright.
>
> Just sayin'
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>
>> UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and wrap it
>> in a shiny box with a slick UI.
>>
>> The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t hate on
>> something that sells well because it is easy to use.
>>
>>
>>
>> No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part on your
>> own.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-985-5912
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs aren't
>> even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics right? Tell me
>> they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me God they're not selling tough
>> fiber or anything like that to rot in the ground
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the
>> side of a street for almost free.
>>
>> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of
>> AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having
>> to deal with splitters.
>>
>>
>>
>> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit
>> startup, Calix is not the way to go.
>>
>> However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>>
>>
>> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
>> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
>> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
>> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>>
>>
>>
>> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
>> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>>
>>
>>
>> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
>> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
>> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>>
>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
>> homes active E.
>>
>>
>>
>> Each home needs a drop.
>>
>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>
>>
>>
>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>>
>>
>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>
>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>> this vs active ethernet?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Sean Heskett]

don't forget that they then sue users, distributors and competitors for
conspiracy to hack when you load another OS/UI on their commodity hardware
that you own outright.

Just sayin'

-Sean



On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:05 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
wrote:

> UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and wrap it in
> a shiny box with a slick UI.
>
> The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t hate on
> something that sells well because it is easy to use.
>
>
>
> No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part on your
> own.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>
>
> I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs aren't even
> on our radar. They're just doing the electronics right? Tell me they're not
> in the glass game itself. Tell me God they're not selling tough fiber or
> anything like that to rot in the ground
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  wrote:
>
> I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the
> side of a street for almost free.
>
> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.
>
>
>
> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of AE,
> the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having to
> deal with splitters.
>
>
>
> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit
> startup, Calix is not the way to go.
>
> However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>
>
> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>
>
>
> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>
>
>
> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>
> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
> homes active E.
>
>
>
> Each home needs a drop.
>
> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>
>
>
> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>
>
> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>
> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this
> vs active ethernet?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>
>
> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>
> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>
>
> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
> I'd check with the group.
> --

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Timothy Steele]

Acctuly there is tough fiber unless they stopped making it..


The new tough cable is good


If you got burned by the old tough cable that had dry rot I can understand
the anger

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 10:22 AM Chuck Hogg 
wrote:

> It's Broadcom under the hood.
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 10:07 AM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
>> You get burned with something?
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs aren't
>> even on our radar. They're just doing the electronics right? Tell me
>> they're not in the glass game itself. Tell me God they're not selling tough
>> fiber or anything like that to rot in the ground
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the
>>> side of a street for almost free.
>>> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of
>>> AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having
>>> to deal with splitters.
>>>
>>> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for
>>> profit startup, Calix is not the way to go.
>>> However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
>>> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
>>> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
>>> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>>>
>>> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
>>> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>>>
>>> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
>>> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
>>> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all
>>>> 30 homes active E.
>>>>
>>>> Each home needs a drop.
>>>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>>>
>>>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>>>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON 
>>>> etc...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>>
>>>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>>>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>>>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>>>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>>>>> this vs active ethernet?
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe)
>>>>> can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT 
>>>>> speeds
>>>>> are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Bouse
>>>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>>>> 979-985-5912
>>>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck Hogg]

It's Broadcom under the hood.

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 10:07 AM, Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> You get burned with something?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs aren't even
> on our radar. They're just doing the electronics right? Tell me they're not
> in the glass game itself. Tell me God they're not selling tough fiber or
> anything like that to rot in the ground
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  wrote:
>
>> I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the
>> side of a street for almost free.
>> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.
>>
>> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of
>> AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having
>> to deal with splitters.
>>
>> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit
>> startup, Calix is not the way to go.
>> However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>>
>>
>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
>> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
>> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
>> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>>
>> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
>> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>>
>> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
>> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
>> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all
>>> 30 homes active E.
>>>
>>> Each home needs a drop.
>>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>>
>>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>>>> this vs active ethernet?
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>>>
>>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe)
>>>> can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds
>>>> are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim Bouse
>>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>>> 979-985-5912
>>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?
>>>> I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I
>>>> thought I'd check with the group.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>


-- 
Regards,
Chuck
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jon Langeler]

You get burned with something? 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs aren't even on 
> our radar. They're just doing the electronics right? Tell me they're not in 
> the glass game itself. Tell me God they're not selling tough fiber or 
> anything like that to rot in the ground
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  wrote:
>> I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the 
>> side of a street for almost free. 
>> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc. 
>>  
>> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of AE, 
>> the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having to 
>> deal with splitters. 
>>  
>> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit 
>> startup, Calix is not the way to go.
>> However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>>  
>>  
>> From: Colin Stanners
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>  
>> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete pad, 
>> electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably 
>> $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that 
>> it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>>  
>> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require 
>> none of that support cost $60 each.
>>  
>> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good when 
>> we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 
>> 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
>>> homes active E. 
>>>  
>>> Each home needs a drop. 
>>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP. 
>>>  
>>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
>>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Colin Stanners
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>  
>>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
>>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and 
>>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 
>>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>>  
>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this 
>>>> vs active ethernet?
>>>>  
>>>> From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>>  
>>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>>> 
>>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
>>>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds 
>>>> are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Bouse
>>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>>> 979-985-5912
>>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
>>>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I 
>>>> thought I'd check with the group.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> -- 
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

UBNT is doing what UBNT does.  They take commodity hardware and wrap it in a 
shiny box with a slick UI.
The commodity hardware is cheap and works reliably well.  Don’t hate on 
something that sells well because it is easy to use.

No, they aren’t selling glass.  They expect you to do that part on your own.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 8:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs aren't even on 
our radar. They're just doing the electronics right? Tell me they're not in the 
glass game itself. Tell me God they're not selling tough fiber or anything like 
that to rot in the ground

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the side 
of a street for almost free.
Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.

I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of AE, the 
fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having to deal with 
splitters.

And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit 
startup, Calix is not the way to go.
However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...


From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete pad, 
electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably 
$10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it 
would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require 
none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good when we 
still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit 
GPON seems to be coming soon...




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes 
active E.

Each home needs a drop.
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house 
subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a 
spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of 
running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs 
active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in 
bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of 
but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:Af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a 
test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check 
with the group.

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Steve Jones]

I don't trust ubnt in any space. That's why their fiber stuffs aren't even
on our radar. They're just doing the electronics right? Tell me they're not
in the glass game itself. Tell me God they're not selling tough fiber or
anything like that to rot in the ground

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:25 PM  wrote:

> I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the
> side of a street for almost free.
> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.
>
> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of AE,
> the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having to
> deal with splitters.
>
> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit
> startup, Calix is not the way to go.
> However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>
> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>
> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>
>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
>> homes active E.
>>
>> Each home needs a drop.
>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>
>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>>> this vs active ethernet?
>>>
>>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>>
>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>>
>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
>>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
>>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-985-5912
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
>>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
>>> I'd check with the group.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Chuck,

Marker balls are about $8.  Yes, you need to have a locator that supports finding them.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, August 30, 2018, 10:48:29 AM, you wrote:





How much do those marker balls cost?
Does it take a special locator to find them?
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
Colin,

We have direct buried some coyotes in fringe areas with 1x2 splitters in them.  Always throw a marker ball on top is we need to find it later.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:59:07 PM, you wrote:





In standard vaults; although rated for such I could never imagine direct-burying a splice case.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:56 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:




Are the splice cases in hand holes or bured?

From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands of dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in -40 degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the above case would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand splitter?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies  wrote:




Colin,

$60.00?

FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:





ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:




If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:




So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chris Fabien]

Calix is totally out of touch on pricing. We talked to them and really
pushed on the pricing. They still sell their GPON gear like it was brand
new technology they invented. In reality its 15 year old commodity tech. It
*should* be cheap.

We are self funded and weren't looking to take on huge debt to get into
FTTH which first led us to active and then to ZTE GPON. It works fine. 3rd
party support knows the product well and their tools are better than the
ZTE tools I think.  This was just when the UFiber was first released in
beta. It's probably a viable option now if it has the features you need,
and you are willing to pay more(vs china gpon gear) for a USA brand you are
familiar with.

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 10:43 AM  wrote:

> Is this with UBNT?
> Calix electronics cost per customer on GPON is about $570 for the
> electronics.  (both ends, pro-rata shares, cyber power, etc)
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:38 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> Chuck,
>
> We do 1x32 so double these numbers.  Basing this on our 7 slot chassis
> using the expensive 10G uplink cards.
>
> Fully loaded 1x32 splits for 1792 customers $32/customer
>
> loaded with 4 cards for 1024 customers $35/customer
>
>
> 1 card for 256 customers about $65/customers
>
>
> Not going to argue that AE is cheaper.  I will yield to that claim.
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:40:25 PM, you wrote:*
>
> So, what is the cost per customer for a 16:1 PON system for the
> electronics?
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> Chuck,
>
> My 0.02
>
> First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking
> about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE
> cards in them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the
> DIY stacking 48 port switches on top of each other and throwing some
> mikrotiks out there?
>
> Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?
> AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big
> advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far
> on AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we
> us a Class C+ laser.
>
> Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I
> use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U
> space. That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply
> system.  Also, that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch
> panel.
>
> If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in the
> same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber
> cables at this point.
>
> Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will
> give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4
> or 8 power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep
> track of.
>
>
> Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G speeds
> at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  With
> GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is
> available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is even
> a 40G GPON so to be available.
>
> AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE
> you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that
> with GPON.
>
>
> "If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
> homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that
> needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G
> laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you
> go. No cabinet or power needed.
>
>
> At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each
> system and figure out the right tool for the job.
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote:*
>
> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this
> vs active ethernet?
>
> *From: *
> *Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]**Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To: *
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Chuck,

This is with zhone and does not include the client side.  These are just head end numbers.  No power plant figured into this.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, August 30, 2018, 10:42:36 AM, you wrote:





Is this with UBNT?
Calix electronics cost per customer on GPON is about $570 for the electronics.  (both ends, pro-rata shares, cyber power, etc)
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:38 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
Chuck,

We do 1x32 so double these numbers.  Basing this on our 7 slot chassis using the expensive 10G uplink cards. 

Fully loaded 1x32 splits for 1792 customers $32/customer

loaded with 4 cards for 1024 customers $35/customer


1 card for 256 customers about $65/customers


Not going to argue that AE is cheaper.  I will yield to that claim.
-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:40:25 PM, you wrote:





So, what is the cost per customer for a 16:1 PON system for the electronics?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck,

My 0.02

First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE cards in them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the DIY stacking 48 port switches on top of each other and throwing some mikrotiks out there?

Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?  AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far on AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we us a Class C+ laser.

Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U space. That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply system.  Also, that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch panel.

If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in the same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber cables at this point.

Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4 or 8 power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep track of.


Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G speeds at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  With GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is even a 40G GPON so to be available.

AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that with GPON.


"If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you go. No cabinet or power needed.


At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each system and figure out the right tool for the job.
-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote:





So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[chuck]

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UfiberHow much do those marker balls cost?
Does it take a special locator to find them?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Colin,

We have direct buried some coyotes in fringe areas with 1x2 splitters in them.  
Always throw a marker ball on top is we need to find it later.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:59:07 PM, you wrote:


 In standard vaults; although rated for such I could never imagine 
direct-burying a splice case.


  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:56 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

   Are the splice cases in hand holes or bured?

From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily 
thousands of dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter 
failed in -40 degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in 
the above case would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand 
splitter?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
 wrote:

 Colin,

  $60.00?

  FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:


   ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal 
fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber 
switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm 
not sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing 
splice cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber 
looks pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 
2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:

 If you have one strand going out there, you hang a 
switch and give all 30 homes active E.  

  Each home needs a drop.  
  So you have to connect the drop to either a 
splitter or an SFP.  

  With AE you will have to power the switch but 
then  you have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old 
fashioned GPON etc...



  From: Colin Stanners
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  That's the main reason, and it branches into 
upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles 
from your headend, and you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only 
need to use 2-3 strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  
wrote:

 So, other than the obvious strand count 
advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to 
configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what 
the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without 
breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Jason,

Trouble shooting a splitter isn't that bad.  If everyone after the splitter is having an issue it is either the splitter or before the splitter.  If only one person is having the issue then it is after the splitter.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, August 30, 2018, 2:50:40 AM, you wrote:





For me, troubleshooting a problem with a link is a huge advantage of AE. You could just do a splitter at the cabinet with PON and get a lot of the same advantages - then the only advantage PON has is power usage though.

On Wednesday, August 29, 2018, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:




Not mentioned, but the other HUGE advantage of AE is that you're able to use a huge variety of equipment. The amount of stuff out there that you can do AE with vs GPON is like a 90:1 ratio. I have an AE setup using a datacenter-grade Arista 7148 capable of 1/10GbE to the customer and it was a very affordable switch to purchase. 

You can use all sorts of ex-datacenter equipment and things that were designed for corporate LAN aggregation and leaf/spline architecture, repurposed for AE residential. With GPON you have maybe ten realistic choices of equipment vendors.



On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:36 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote:




Chuck,

My 0.02

First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE cards in them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the DIY stacking 48 port switches on top of each other and throwing some mikrotiks out there?

Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?  AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far on AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we us a Class C+ laser.

Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U space. That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply system.  Also, that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch panel.

If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in the same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber cables at this point.

Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4 or 8 power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep track of.


Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G speeds at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  With GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is even a 40G GPON so to be available.

AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that with GPON.


"If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you go. No cabinet or power needed.


At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each system and figure out the right tool for the job.
-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote:





So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <Af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Colin,

We have direct buried some coyotes in fringe areas with 1x2 splitters in them.  Always throw a marker ball on top is we need to find it later.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:59:07 PM, you wrote:





In standard vaults; although rated for such I could never imagine direct-burying a splice case.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:56 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




Are the splice cases in hand holes or bured?
 
From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands of dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in -40 degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the above case would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand splitter?
 
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies  wrote:




Colin,

$60.00?

FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:





ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:




If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:




So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[chuck]

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UfiberIs this with UBNT?
Calix electronics cost per customer on GPON is about $570 for the electronics.  
(both ends, pro-rata shares, cyber power, etc)

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:38 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck,

We do 1x32 so double these numbers.  Basing this on our 7 slot chassis using 
the expensive 10G uplink cards. 

Fully loaded 1x32 splits for 1792 customers $32/customer

loaded with 4 cards for 1024 customers $35/customer


1 card for 256 customers about $65/customers


Not going to argue that AE is cheaper.  I will yield to that claim.
-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:40:25 PM, you wrote:


 So, what is the cost per customer for a 16:1 PON system for the 
electronics?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  Chuck,

  My 0.02

  First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking 
about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE cards in 
them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the DIY stacking 48 
port switches on top of each other and throwing some mikrotiks out there?

  Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?  
AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big 
advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far on 
AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we us a 
Class C+ laser.

  Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I 
use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U space. 
That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply system.  Also, 
that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch panel.

  If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in 
the same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber 
cables at this point.

  Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will 
give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4 or 8 
power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep track of.


  Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G 
speeds at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  
With GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is 
available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is even a 
40G GPON so to be available.

  AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE 
you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that with 
GPON.


  "If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 
30 homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that 
needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G 
laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you go. 
No cabinet or power needed.


  At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each 
system and figure out the right tool for the job.
  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote:


   So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you 
use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU 
(cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT 
speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production 
environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it 
so I thought I'd check with the group.


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Colin,

So far I've had more of our "Brand Name" splitter fail than the FS ones.  To be honest, it isn't a fair test.  We started the project with the "Brand Name" splitters and had some issues with water in the splice cases.  We have fixed those issues, so the FS splitters have not been exposed to that test.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:51:04 PM, you wrote:





We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands of dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in -40 degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the above case would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand splitter?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote:




Colin,

$60.00?

FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:





ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <Af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[chuck]

If I am closer than 20 feet to the asphalt of a state highway or interstate, I 
have to be at 5 feet.  That takes a D9.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:36 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Yeah, I want a link to the 3 foot deep plow if that's what we're talking about.



On 8/30/2018 10:33 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  What kind of plow?  Vibratory?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:30 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  We also have to run 36" deep. We do have pretty favorable soil for plowing in 
most cases, only occasional rocks and the plow can usually pull them up. 
Usually sandy soil which plows great, sometimes clay which can be slow going 
but still plows OK. We never pre-rip.  

  We don't have goohers, do have ground hogs though. The one cut we've had so 
far was due to a ground hog trying to move in to a washed out area around a 
failed drain pipe that exposed our cable underground. 

  Most other existing utilities in our area are direct buried in rural areas. 
New fiber is put in conduit sometimes, depends on the utility. Many miles of 
telco and catv fiber direct buried though. 

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 9:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

How deep?

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more like <50 
cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft per day.  

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Do you use direct burial?

  I do conduit.  
  30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, 
maybe $3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites 
with cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

  For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
power for. 

  We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split 
method, and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop 
cable. 

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 
30 homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

  So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use 
this vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.

  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) 
can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment? 
 I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought 
I'd check with the group.


--
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  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Chuck,

We do 1x32 so double these numbers.  Basing this on our 7 slot chassis using the expensive 10G uplink cards. 

Fully loaded 1x32 splits for 1792 customers $32/customer

loaded with 4 cards for 1024 customers $35/customer


1 card for 256 customers about $65/customers


Not going to argue that AE is cheaper.  I will yield to that claim.
-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 8:40:25 PM, you wrote:





So, what is the cost per customer for a 16:1 PON system for the electronics?
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
Chuck,

My 0.02

First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE cards in them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the DIY stacking 48 port switches on top of each other and throwing some mikrotiks out there?

Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?  AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far on AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we us a Class C+ laser.

Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U space. That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply system.  Also, that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch panel.

If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in the same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber cables at this point.

Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4 or 8 power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep track of.


Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G speeds at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  With GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is even a 40G GPON so to be available.

AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that with GPON.


"If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you go. No cabinet or power needed.


At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each system and figure out the right tool for the job.
-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote:





So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah, I want a link to the 3 foot deep plow if that's what we're talking 
about.



On 8/30/2018 10:33 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What kind of plow?  Vibratory?
*From:* Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
We also have to run 36" deep. We do have pretty favorable soil for 
plowing in most cases, only occasional rocks and the plow can usually 
pull them up. Usually sandy soil which plows great, sometimes clay 
which can be slow going but still plows OK. We never pre-rip.
We don't have goohers, do have ground hogs though. The one cut we've 
had so far was due to a ground hog trying to move in to a washed out 
area around a failed drain pipe that exposed our cable underground.
Most other existing utilities in our area are direct buried in rural 
areas. New fiber is put in conduit sometimes, depends on the utility. 
Many miles of telco and catv fiber direct buried though.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 9:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

How deep?
*From:* Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more
like <50 cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft
per day.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Do you use direct burial?
I do conduit.
30 cents per foot minimum. Add at least $2/foot for plowing. 
All in, maybe $3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing
and splicing.
*From:* Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and
two sites with cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to
deploy GPON going forward.
For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand
count cable which saves cost on material and also lets you
serve a larger radius from a cabinet with the same size feeder
cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And larger radius
served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about
backup power for.
We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical
tap split method, and often serve many miles of homes using 18
cents per foot 12F drop cable.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch
and give all 30 homes active E.
Each home needs a drop.
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an
SFP.
With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you
have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared
bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
*From:* Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
That's the main reason, and it branches into
upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in a
field a few miles from your headend, and you have a spare
10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

So, other than the obvious strand count advantages,
why would you use this vs active ethernet?
*From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine. We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.

Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.
The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode. I’m
not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of
but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of
*Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a
production environment? I have a test setup, just
haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
I'd check with t

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[chuck]

What kind of plow?  Vibratory?

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:30 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We also have to run 36" deep. We do have pretty favorable soil for plowing in 
most cases, only occasional rocks and the plow can usually pull them up. 
Usually sandy soil which plows great, sometimes clay which can be slow going 
but still plows OK. We never pre-rip.  

We don't have goohers, do have ground hogs though. The one cut we've had so far 
was due to a ground hog trying to move in to a washed out area around a failed 
drain pipe that exposed our cable underground. 

Most other existing utilities in our area are direct buried in rural areas. New 
fiber is put in conduit sometimes, depends on the utility. Many miles of telco 
and catv fiber direct buried though. 

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 9:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  How deep?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more like <50 
cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft per day.  

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Do you use direct burial?

I do conduit.  
30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, 
maybe $3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
power for. 

We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split 
method, and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop 
cable. 

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

  If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E.  

  Each home needs a drop.  
  So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

  With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



  From: Colin Stanners 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use 
this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.

Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) 
can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com



From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  
I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought 
I'd check with the group.



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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jason McKemie]

For me, troubleshooting a problem with a link is a huge advantage of AE.
You could just do a splitter at the cabinet with PON and get a lot of the
same advantages - then the only advantage PON has is power usage though.

On Wednesday, August 29, 2018, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Not mentioned, but the other HUGE advantage of AE is that you're able to
> use a huge variety of equipment. The amount of stuff out there that you can
> do AE with vs GPON is like a 90:1 ratio. I have an AE setup using a
> datacenter-grade Arista 7148 capable of 1/10GbE to the customer and it was
> a very affordable switch to purchase.
>
> You can use all sorts of ex-datacenter equipment and things that were
> designed for corporate LAN aggregation and leaf/spline architecture,
> repurposed for AE residential. With GPON you have maybe ten realistic
> choices of equipment vendors.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:36 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> My 0.02
>>
>> First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking
>> about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE
>> cards in them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the
>> DIY stacking 48 port switches on top of each other and throwing some
>> mikrotiks out there?
>>
>> Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?
>> AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big
>> advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far
>> on AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we
>> us a Class C+ laser.
>>
>> Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I
>> use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U
>> space. That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply
>> system.  Also, that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch
>> panel.
>>
>> If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in
>> the same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber
>> cables at this point.
>>
>> Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will
>> give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4
>> or 8 power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep
>> track of.
>>
>>
>> Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G
>> speeds at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water
>> anymore.  With GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G
>> GPON is available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe
>> there is even a 40G GPON so to be available.
>>
>> AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE
>> you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that
>> with GPON.
>>
>>
>> "If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all
>> 30 homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that
>> needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G
>> laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you
>> go. No cabinet or power needed.
>>
>>
>> At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each
>> system and figure out the right tool for the job.
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>> 
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote: *
>>
>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>> this vs active ethernet?
>>
>> *From: *
>> *Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] **Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>> *To: *
>> *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group **Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-985-5912
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
>> I'd check with the group.
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Gophers here will find a plow rip and use it for their freeways and rest stops. 
 
They will chew clear through fiber in their gopher urban areas.  
(Generally out in the middle of nowhere)

Conduit makes their jaw geometry not works so well.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:30 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We also have to run 36" deep. We do have pretty favorable soil for plowing in 
most cases, only occasional rocks and the plow can usually pull them up. 
Usually sandy soil which plows great, sometimes clay which can be slow going 
but still plows OK. We never pre-rip.  

We don't have goohers, do have ground hogs though. The one cut we've had so far 
was due to a ground hog trying to move in to a washed out area around a failed 
drain pipe that exposed our cable underground. 

Most other existing utilities in our area are direct buried in rural areas. New 
fiber is put in conduit sometimes, depends on the utility. Many miles of telco 
and catv fiber direct buried though. 

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 9:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  How deep?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more like <50 
cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft per day.  

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Do you use direct burial?

I do conduit.  
30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, 
maybe $3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
power for. 

We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split 
method, and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop 
cable. 

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

  If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E.  

  Each home needs a drop.  
  So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

  With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



  From: Colin Stanners 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use 
this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.

Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) 
can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com



From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  
I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought 
I'd check with the group.



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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chris Fabien]

We also have to run 36" deep. We do have pretty favorable soil for plowing
in most cases, only occasional rocks and the plow can usually pull them up.
Usually sandy soil which plows great, sometimes clay which can be slow
going but still plows OK. We never pre-rip.

We don't have goohers, do have ground hogs though. The one cut we've had so
far was due to a ground hog trying to move in to a washed out area around a
failed drain pipe that exposed our cable underground.

Most other existing utilities in our area are direct buried in rural areas.
New fiber is put in conduit sometimes, depends on the utility. Many miles
of telco and catv fiber direct buried though.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 9:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> How deep?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more like <50
> cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft per day.
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Do you use direct burial?
>>
>> I do conduit.
>> 30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in,
>> maybe $3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites
>> with cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward.
>>
>> For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable
>> which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a
>> cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet).
>> And larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about
>> backup power for.
>>
>> We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split
>> method, and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F
>> drop cable.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all
>>> 30 homes active E.
>>>
>>> Each home needs a drop.
>>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>>
>>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>>>> this vs active ethernet?
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>>>
>>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe)
>>>> can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds
>>>> are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim Bouse
>>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>>> 979-985-5912
>>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?
>>>> I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I
>>>> thought I'd check with the group.
>>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Colin Stanners]

Getting the snow off the top with a shovel, sure. Extracting the fiber and
splice case from a 2x3x2ft block of solid ice without damaging them...
You'll need a big, heated Hydrovac. Some vaults are located higher up and
dry, but chances are that anything that fails due to cold would be the
ice-vaults.



On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:04 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I guess I don’t understand construction in the great white north.  Why
> would you have to vacuum excavate and unfreeze a handhole?  Cannot you just
> shovel the snow off of it?
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> In standard vaults; although rated for such I could never imagine
> direct-burying a splice case.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:56 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Are the splice cases in hand holes or bured?
>>
>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands
>> of dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in
>> -40 degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the
>> above case would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand
>> splitter?
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Colin,
>>>
>>> $60.00?
>>>
>>> FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *--Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:*
>>>
>>> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
>>> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
>>> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
>>> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>>>
>>> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
>>> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>>>
>>> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
>>> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
>>> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all
>>> 30 homes active E.
>>>
>>> Each home needs a drop.
>>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>>
>>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>>> this vs active ethernet?
>>>
>>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
>>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
>>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>>
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-985-5912
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
&g

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

How deep?

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more like <50 
cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft per day.  

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Do you use direct burial?

  I do conduit.  
  30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, maybe 
$3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

  For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
power for. 

  We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split method, 
and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop cable. 

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

  So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use 
this vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.

  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd 
check with the group.


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Just the duct.  
72 strand is about 50 cents per foot.  

144 is closer to a buck.  144 tends to be the smallest size I want to use.  

From: Jon Langeler 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

.30/ft for conduit or fiber...both?


Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Aug 29, 2018, at 8:50 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  Do you use direct burial?

  I do conduit.  
  30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, maybe 
$3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

  For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
power for. 

  We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split method, 
and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop cable. 

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

  So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use 
this vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.

  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd 
check with the group.


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

And you must not have gophers...

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more like <50 
cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft per day.  

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Do you use direct burial?

  I do conduit.  
  30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, maybe 
$3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

  For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
power for. 

  We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split method, 
and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop cable. 

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

  So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use 
this vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.

  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd 
check with the group.


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

I have to go minimum 3’ in state ROWs and much of the time is is hard rocky 
ground requiring pre-ripping.  

Soft farm ground at 24 inches would go much faster.

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck, we direct bury in rural areas. My cost for plowing is more like <50 
cents per foot with our in house crew, figuring 2000ft per day.  

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Do you use direct burial?

  I do conduit.  
  30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, maybe 
$3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

  For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
power for. 

  We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split method, 
and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop cable. 

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

  So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use 
this vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.

  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd 
check with the group.


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jon Langeler]

.30/ft for conduit or fiber...both?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Aug 29, 2018, at 8:50 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Do you use direct burial?
>  
> I do conduit. 
> 30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, maybe 
> $3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and  splicing. 
>  
> From: Chris Fabien
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>  
> We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
> cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward.
>  
> For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
> which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
> cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
> larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
> power for.
>  
> We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split method, 
> and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop cable.
>  
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:
>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
>> homes active E. 
>>  
>> Each home needs a drop. 
>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP. 
>>  
>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Colin Stanners
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>  
>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and 
>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 
>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>  
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this 
>>> vs active ethernet?
>>>  
>>> From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>  
>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>> 
>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
>>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
>>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-985-5912
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
>>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought 
>>> I'd check with the group.
>>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

I guess I don’t understand construction in the great white north.  Why would 
you have to vacuum excavate and unfreeze a handhole?  Cannot you just shovel 
the snow off of it?

From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

In standard vaults; although rated for such I could never imagine 
direct-burying a splice case. 



On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:56 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Are the splice cases in hand holes or bured?

  From: Colin Stanners 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:51 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands of 
dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in -40 
degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the above case 
would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand splitter?


  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies  
wrote:

Colin,

$60.00?

FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:


 ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, 
concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch 
is probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not 
sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

  PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and 
require none of that support cost $60 each.

  Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty 
good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK 
AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:

   If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and 
give all 30 homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP. 
 

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no 
shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON 
etc...



From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If 
a new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, 
and you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 
strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

 So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why 
would you use this vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.
  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  
The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the 
routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without 
breaking a sweat.

  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason 
McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production 
environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it 
so I thought I'd check with the group.

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Colin Stanners]

In standard vaults; although rated for such I could never imagine
direct-burying a splice case.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:56 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Are the splice cases in hand holes or bured?
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:51 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands
> of dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in
> -40 degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the
> above case would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand
> splitter?
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
> wrote:
>
>> Colin,
>>
>> $60.00?
>>
>> FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
>> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
>> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
>> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>>
>> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
>> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>>
>> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
>> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
>> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>>
>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
>> homes active E.
>>
>> Each home needs a drop.
>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>
>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>
>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>> this vs active ethernet?
>>
>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-985-5912
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
>> I'd check with the group.
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Are the splice cases in hand holes or bured?

From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands of 
dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in -40 
degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the above case 
would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand splitter?


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies  
wrote:

  Colin,

  $60.00?

  FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:


   ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete 
pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is 
probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure 
that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and 
require none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good 
when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 
10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:

 If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give 
all 30 homes active E.  

  Each home needs a drop.  
  So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

  With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no 
shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON 
etc...



  From: Colin Stanners
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a 
new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and 
you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

   So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why 
would you use this vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The 
ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT 
speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason 
McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production 
environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it 
so I thought I'd check with the group.


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jon Langeler]

optical split tap? 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Aug 29, 2018, at 8:42 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
> 
> We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
> cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward.
> 
>  For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable 
> which saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a 
> cabinet with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And 
> larger radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup 
> power for. 
> 
> We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split method, 
> and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop cable. 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:
>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
>> homes active E. 
>>  
>> Each home needs a drop. 
>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP. 
>>  
>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Colin Stanners
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>  
>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and 
>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 
>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>  
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this 
>>> vs active ethernet?
>>>  
>>> From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>  
>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>> 
>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
>>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
>>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-985-5912
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
>>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought 
>>> I'd check with the group.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Colin Stanners]

We're going to put these in splice cases that would cost easily thousands
of dollars to hydrovac-unfreeze and replace if a single splitter failed in
-40 degree winter... now Fiberstore SFPs are great but tell me, in the
above case would you put a $11 FS Splitter or a $60 huge-name-brand
splitter?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Colin,
>
> $60.00?
>
> FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote: *
>
> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>
> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>
> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>
> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
> homes active E.
>
> Each home needs a drop.
> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>
> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>
>
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>
> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this
> vs active ethernet?
>
> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
> It is brain dead simple to configure.
> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
> I'd check with the group.
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Do you use direct burial?

I do conduit.  
30 cents per foot minimum.  Add at least $2/foot for plowing.  All in, maybe 
$3/foot and that is if I am doing my own plowing and splicing.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We have done 3 cabinets with cheapo AE (planet switches) and two sites with 
cheapo GPON(ZTE). We will be continuing to deploy GPON going forward. 

For us, the biggest advantage are ability to use small strand count cable which 
saves cost on material and also lets you serve a larger radius from a cabinet 
with the same size feeder cables (same # of strands in cabinet). And larger 
radius served means less power feeds to pay for and worry about backup power 
for. 

We push the strand savings to the extreme using the optical tap split method, 
and often serve many miles of homes using 18 cents per foot 12F drop cable. 

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 3:04 PM  wrote:

  If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E.  

  Each home needs a drop.  
  So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

  With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



  From: Colin Stanners 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you 
have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this 
vs active ethernet?

From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.

Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com



From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd 
check with the group.




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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UfiberI have cabinets full of splitters.  Maybe 10 
splitters in one cross box all full.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck,

Nothing wrong with splitters.  You will have to do some extra design work with 
the splitters.  Also, there is the waste factor.  We design to the property not 
the customer, so it is very rare we get a full 32 customers on a 1x32 splitter.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:24:23 PM, you wrote:


 I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the 
side of a street for almost free.  
  Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.  

  I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of 
AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having to 
deal with splitters.  

  And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit 
startup, Calix is not the way to go.
  However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...


  From: Colin Stanners
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete 
pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is 
probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure 
that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

  PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and 
require none of that support cost $60 each.

  Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good 
when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 
10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:

   If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give 
all 30 homes active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no 
shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON 
etc...



From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a 
new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and 
you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands 
instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

 So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would 
you use this vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.
  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The 
ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT 
speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production 
environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it 
so I thought I'd check with the group.

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Chuck McCown]

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti UfiberSo, what is the cost per customer for a 16:1 PON 
system for the electronics?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

Chuck,

My 0.02

First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking about.  
Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE cards in them 
using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the DIY stacking 48 port 
switches on top of each other and throwing some mikrotiks out there?

Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?  AE is 
fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big advantage of 
AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far on AE as GPON.  
The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we us a Class C+ laser.

Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I use 
seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U space. 
That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply system.  Also, 
that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch panel.

If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in the same 
space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber cables at 
this point.

Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will give 
me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4 or 8 
power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep track of.


Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G speeds at 
each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  With GPON 
you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is available now 
where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is even a 40G GPON so to 
be available.

AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE you can 
interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that with GPON.


"If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 
homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that needs 
power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G laser.  
Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you go. No 
cabinet or power needed.


At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each system 
and figure out the right tool for the job.
-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote:


 So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this 
vs active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.
  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can 
run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are 
capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.

  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I 
have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd 
check with the group.

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Chuck,

Nothing wrong with splitters.  You will have to do some extra design work with the splitters.  Also, there is the waste factor.  We design to the property not the customer, so it is very rare we get a full 32 customers on a 1x32 splitter.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:24:23 PM, you wrote:





I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the side of a street for almost free.  
Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.  
 
I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of AE, the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having to deal with splitters.  
 
And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit startup, Calix is not the way to go.
However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
 
 
From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
 
PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.
 
Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 
 
 
 
 
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:




If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E.  
 
Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  
 
With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
 
 
 
From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
 
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:




So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?
 
From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
 
Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Carl Peterson]

I have one in the lab.  Decided I need an all in one CPE like the 844G and
that the features I need weren't there yet.  Generally don't have the time
to be a free tester so I figured I'd wait till it is ready.  Based on UBNTs
past performance, it will eventually get there but last time I played with
it, it just isn't ready.  I'm sure there are use cases where it would make
sense.  If I was starting out on my own and had a few MDUs to wire on the
cheap, I'd use it but I wouldn't want to try to manage thousands of
customers on it.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> I do not have one, but somebody who does says that their SNMP daemon is
> still snmpv1 only (not v2c), so they're basically useless if you want to
> poll it for interface metrics. This is because SNMPv1 is ancient and
> doesn't support 64-bit counters. If this has been fixed in a recent
> firmware update the ubnt people watching the list can feel free to correct
> me.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:18 AM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
>> I'd check with the group.
>> --
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>>
>
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>
>


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Eric Kuhnke]

Not mentioned, but the other HUGE advantage of AE is that you're able to
use a huge variety of equipment. The amount of stuff out there that you can
do AE with vs GPON is like a 90:1 ratio. I have an AE setup using a
datacenter-grade Arista 7148 capable of 1/10GbE to the customer and it was
a very affordable switch to purchase.

You can use all sorts of ex-datacenter equipment and things that were
designed for corporate LAN aggregation and leaf/spline architecture,
repurposed for AE residential. With GPON you have maybe ten realistic
choices of equipment vendors.



On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:36 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> My 0.02
>
> First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking
> about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE
> cards in them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the
> DIY stacking 48 port switches on top of each other and throwing some
> mikrotiks out there?
>
> Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?
> AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big
> advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far
> on AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we
> us a Class C+ laser.
>
> Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I
> use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U
> space. That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply
> system.  Also, that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch
> panel.
>
> If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in the
> same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber
> cables at this point.
>
> Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will
> give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4
> or 8 power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep
> track of.
>
>
> Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G speeds
> at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  With
> GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is
> available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is
> even a 40G GPON so to be available.
>
> AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE
> you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that
> with GPON.
>
>
> "If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
> homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that
> needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G
> laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you
> go. No cabinet or power needed.
>
>
> At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each
> system and figure out the right tool for the job.
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote: *
>
> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this
> vs active ethernet?
>
> *From: *
> *Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] **Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To: *
> *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group **Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
> It is brain dead simple to configure.
> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
> I'd check with the group.
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Colin,

$60.00?

FS.com 1x16 PLC bare fiber $11.00

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 3:18:14 PM, you wrote:





ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP. And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon... 




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E.  
 
Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  
 
With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
 
 
 
From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
 
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:




So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?
 
From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
 
Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber


Chuck,

My 0.02

First of all we would have to determine what type of AE we are talking about.  Are we talking a managed system like calix, zhone, etc with AE cards in them using their respective OLT's? Or, are we talking about the DIY stacking 48 port switches on top of each other and throwing some mikrotiks out there?

Also, we need to talk about density?  How many customers are we talking?  AE is fine for smaller build outs, but doesn't scale well.  The one big advantage of AE over GPON is distance.  You can economically run 4x as far on AE as GPON.  The best we can do on our GPON system is about 30km if we us a Class C+ laser.

Using my test cage as an example.  This is a 4U cage with 7 slots.  If I use seven 8port cards, that gives me a maximum of 1792 customers in a 4U space. That is 1792 customers powered by one redundant power supply system.  Also, that is 56 fiber cables running from the cage to the patch panel.

If I do AE on the 4U cage using 7 AE cards, I can get 140 customers in the same space.  About the same power requirements, but I'm using 140 fiber cables at this point.

Now if I move the the DIY AE system maybe I can get 48 per 1U.  That will give me 192 AE customers in a 4U space.  But now I'm dealing with either 4 or 8 power plugs.  Not to mention 192 individual fiber jumpers to keep track of.


Now there once was an argument that with AE, one could guarantee 1G speeds at each port.  I don't think that argument holds much water anymore.  With GPON you can sell 1G download speeds at 16 to 1 ratio.  10G GPON is available now where you can down to 3 to 1 ration.  I believe there is even a 40G GPON so to be available.

AE's advantage is distance and it being AE.  For example being it is AE you can interrupt fiber run with a wireless link if needed, can't do that with GPON.


"If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes active E".  That is great, but now you have to have a cabinet that needs power and BBU.  You are sharing a 1G , unless you you pop for a 10G laser.  Under GPON, you just go out and pop in a 1x32 splitter and off you go. No cabinet or power needed.


At the end of the day the individual has to look at the pro/cons of each system and figure out the right tool for the job.
-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 2:52:22 PM, you wrote:





So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs active ethernet?
 
From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
It is brain dead simple to configure.
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
 
Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
 
Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check with the group.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Sterling Jacobson]

I’m going to use it for a small MDU five building project here next month or so.

I’m active Ethernet at the cabinet, but this is in-between cabinets and I don’t 
want to pull more fiber, so I’m using GPON instead.

We’ll see how it goes.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:31 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

All good points.
I am using UNMS to monitor it currently but am looking at other options.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We've been investigating Ufiber as an option for our fiber GPON deployments. 
Hardware seems good, firmware has a long ways to go - from what we've seen, the 
CPEs don't have WAN-accessible IPs (except for the in the undesirable NAT mode) 
nor support SNMP management yet, so we have to consider them unmonitorable. The 
fact that headend IP access doesn't work but the CPEs by default have 
customer-side IPs that are reachable, which is the opposite of what a provider 
wants, is strange. Ubnt's suggestion to monitor the OLTs directly would have 
people logged into them 24/7 to watch these devices, which doesn't work, nor to 
use UNMS as we already have far more extensive systems installed and built into 
company accounting/change tracking processes (and supporting many other Cambium 
wireless and other fiber platforms). But there was a post from an Ubnt employee 
a few days ago on here that some of these fixes, especially SNMP, are on track 
for firmware 3.1.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:18 PM Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a 
test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check 
with the group.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Colin Stanners]

 My understanding is that no new electrical drops are allowed in RoWs in
our area, so if you want anything that takes power like a cabinet, you need
to buy/subdivide/etc land.

Using a customer's home is a risk on wireless (when they move out and the
new person thinks you're rich and they are entitled to a ridiculous sum of
money; or they turn off power to your tower because "their internet sucks
and you're not fixing it" but the cause of both those complaints is that
their kid is the Mike Tyson of Bittorrent). I wouldn't want to do it on
fiber where the equipment is even more difficult to move to a different
location. In our area, the price/effort difference between both topologies
for a small expansion is as big as I posted; so only one really works.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:25 PM  wrote:

> I can generally get a building permit to use a public utility ROW or the
> side of a street for almost free.
> Perhaps use a customers home for everything in exchange for service etc.
>
> I agree, for 30 PON is a good way to go.  But I like the simplicity of AE,
> the fact that I can cast shade on PON based competitors and not having to
> deal with splitters.
>
> And I do PON all day long with Calix.  But for a non regulated for profit
> startup, Calix is not the way to go.
> However I do not trust UBNT in this space... yet...
>
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:18 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
> pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
> probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
> sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.
>
> PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and
> require none of that support cost $60 each.
>
> Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
> when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
> And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:
>
>> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
>> homes active E.
>>
>> Each home needs a drop.
>> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>>
>> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
>> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
>> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
>> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
>> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>>> this vs active ethernet?
>>>
>>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>>
>>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>>
>>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
>>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
>>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-985-5912
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
>>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
>>> I'd check with the group.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Mike Hammett]

Electricity\heat\battery scale. 

A 1U box can run several hundred GPON customers while consuming probably less 
than 75 watts. Can't do that with Active E. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:03:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber 




If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes 
active E. 

Each home needs a drop. 
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP. 

With AE you will have to power the switch but then you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc... 






From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber 


That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house 
subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a 
spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of 
running new 48-strand cable the whole way. 



On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs 
active ethernet? 




From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber 



It works fine. We have it in 2 subdivisions. 
It is brain dead simple to configure. 
Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure. The ONU (cpe) can run in 
bridge or router mode. I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable of 
but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat. 

Jim Bouse 
Owner - Brazos WiFi 
979-985-5912 
http://www.brazoswifi.com 

From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < Af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber 


Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment? I have a 
test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check 
with the group. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Colin Stanners]

ActiveEthernet: Property acquisition for the land, legal fees, concrete
pad, electrical install, cabinet, UPS, heating/cooling, fiber switch is
probably $10,000 - 15,000 including cost of time. When we're busy I'm not
sure that it would be worth doing for only 30 homes.

PON: two 1x16 fiber splitters that fit in existing splice cases and require
none of that support cost $60 each.

Shared bandwidth...16 customers sharing 2.5gbit fiber looks pretty good
when we still have tower sites with 16 customers on a 10mbit 2.4Ghz FSK AP.
And 10Gbit GPON seems to be coming soon...




On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM  wrote:

> If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30
> homes active E.
>
> Each home needs a drop.
> So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.
>
> With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared
> bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...
>
>
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
> That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
> 30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
> you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
> strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:
>
>> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use
>> this vs active ethernet?
>>
>> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>>
>> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
>> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>>
>> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
>> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
>> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-985-5912
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
>> I'd check with the group.
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[chuck]

If you have one strand going out there, you hang a switch and give all 30 homes 
active E.  

Each home needs a drop.  
So you have to connect the drop to either a splitter or an SFP.  

With AE you will have to power the switch but then  you have no shared 
bandwidth, it has market cache vs shared bandwidth old fashioned GPON etc...



From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new 30-house 
subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and you have a 
spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3 strands instead of 
running new 48-strand cable the whole way.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

  So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this vs 
active ethernet?

  From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

  It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
  It is brain dead simple to configure.

  Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can run 
in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are capable 
of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.



  Jim Bouse
  Owner - Brazos WiFi
  979-985-5912
  http://www.brazoswifi.com



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber



  Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have 
a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd 
check with the group.



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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Colin Stanners]

That's the main reason, and it branches into upgradeability. If a new
30-house subdivision appears in a field a few miles from your headend, and
you have a spare 10 strands going out there, you only need to use 2-3
strands instead of running new 48-strand cable the whole way.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM  wrote:

> So, other than the obvious strand count advantages, why would you use this
> vs active ethernet?
>
> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>
> It works fine.  We have it in 2 subdivisions.
> It is brain dead simple to configure.
>
> Since it “Just Works” there isn’t a lot to configure.  The ONU (cpe) can
> run in bridge or router mode.  I’m not sure what the routing/NAT speeds are
> capable of but it will do 1G in bridge mode without breaking a sweat.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber
>
>
>
> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
> I'd check with the group.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

All good points.
I am using UNMS to monitor it currently but am looking at other options.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

We've been investigating Ufiber as an option for our fiber GPON deployments. 
Hardware seems good, firmware has a long ways to go - from what we've seen, the 
CPEs don't have WAN-accessible IPs (except for the in the undesirable NAT mode) 
nor support SNMP management yet, so we have to consider them unmonitorable. The 
fact that headend IP access doesn't work but the CPEs by default have 
customer-side IPs that are reachable, which is the opposite of what a provider 
wants, is strange. Ubnt's suggestion to monitor the OLTs directly would have 
people logged into them 24/7 to watch these devices, which doesn't work, nor to 
use UNMS as we already have far more extensive systems installed and built into 
company accounting/change tracking processes (and supporting many other Cambium 
wireless and other fiber platforms). But there was a post from an Ubnt employee 
a few days ago on here that some of these fixes, especially SNMP, are on track 
for firmware 3.1.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:18 PM Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I have a 
test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought I'd check 
with the group.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Ufiber

[Jeremy]

Looks like firmware 3.0 came out yesterday:
[image: unnamed.jpg]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:46 AM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> We've been investigating Ufiber as an option for our fiber GPON
> deployments. Hardware seems good, firmware has a long ways to go - from
> what we've seen, the CPEs don't have WAN-accessible IPs (except for the in
> the undesirable NAT mode) nor support SNMP management yet, so we have to
> consider them unmonitorable. The fact that headend IP access doesn't work
> but the CPEs by default have customer-side IPs that are reachable, which is
> the opposite of what a provider wants, is strange. Ubnt's suggestion to
> monitor the OLTs directly would have people logged into them 24/7 to watch
> these devices, which doesn't work, nor to use UNMS as we already have far
> more extensive systems installed and built into company accounting/change
> tracking processes (and supporting many other Cambium wireless and other
> fiber platforms). But there was a post from an Ubnt employee a few days ago
> on here that some of these fixes, especially SNMP, are on track for
> firmware 3.1.
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:18 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone actually have this equipment in a production environment?  I
>> have a test setup, just haven't heard much discussion about it so I thought
>> I'd check with the group.
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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