Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Good idea I think. saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 8:31 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I’ve got a hard lesson in if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I’ve come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren’t too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I’ll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I’ve fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I’ve given up trying on the current version. I’ve concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn’t nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I’ve forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won’t be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I’m going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I’ll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone’s part. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
At least it wasn't Beavis' Great Cornholio. LOL. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 5:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Dark, No, fortunately I didn't need a dose of Jeremey's Speedy Gonzales juice to resolve this issue. I actually found the source of the bugs quite by accident. :D As for the change logs I tend to only announce changes that are of interest to the general public. I don't necessarily mention spelling corrections or that I expanded a comment or two to make note of some additional change in the code I can review later if needed. There are certain minor issues so minor that they aren't worth mentioning. Like I might decide to rename variable a to variable b, or that I discover by reviewing a function that line 2096 is not properly indented and I corrected the formatting on the spot. Such things are so minor and trivial that it would bore you to tears reading about them. All the same its nice knowing that such minor issues are fixed when and where needed for my part at least. Cheers! On 8/2/11, dark wrote: Hi Tom. Wooo, that was fast, Has jeremy slipped you some of his super caffeinated coacane impregnated extra hot tabasco flavoured red bull? ;D. seriously, glad to here it's less of a task than it sounded at least to me, sinse I was expecting this to add about an extra fortnight to a month onto mota developement time, glad to here that's not the case. As to the changelogs, sinse you listed bug fixes I sort of assumed everything was in there, though it does make sense if you only list the major well known bugs like the bouncing endless jumping one that happened when you first introduced analogue jumping. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Will, Well, if its plane facts you want here are a couple. I officially started Mysteries of the Ancients in April 2008. Its now August 2011 In all thats about 40 months or three and a half years give or take. I don't know what universe you are from but that simply does not add up to six years unless of course you are blaming me for the time James North was working on Montezuma's Revenge, I took it over in mid 2006, rewrote it in .Net, and got screwed over by Utopia because of copyright issues and had to start over from scratch. If you are adding that on I could see it, but I don't consider that fair as none of that was directly my fault. Its honestly people exactly like you why I have been tempted to leave this community behind. You will not bend an inch, will not give a developer a break, and you have absolutely no sympathy or understanding when a developer is faced with events or issues out of his or her control. The only bottom line is to get that game out tomorrow or else. Real world indi developers and development doesn't work that way. Cheers! On 8/3/11, william lomas wrote: > what i'm saying is true, face facts wasn't meant to be hmurus meant to be > plain facts --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Dark, No, fortunately I didn't need a dose of Jeremey's Speedy Gonzales juice to resolve this issue. I actually found the source of the bugs quite by accident. :D As for the change logs I tend to only announce changes that are of interest to the general public. I don't necessarily mention spelling corrections or that I expanded a comment or two to make note of some additional change in the code I can review later if needed. There are certain minor issues so minor that they aren't worth mentioning. Like I might decide to rename variable a to variable b, or that I discover by reviewing a function that line 2096 is not properly indented and I corrected the formatting on the spot. Such things are so minor and trivial that it would bore you to tears reading about them. All the same its nice knowing that such minor issues are fixed when and where needed for my part at least. Cheers! On 8/2/11, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > > Wooo, that was fast, Has jeremy slipped you some of his super caffeinated > coacane impregnated extra hot tabasco flavoured red bull? ;D. > > seriously, glad to here it's less of a task than it sounded at least to me, > sinse I was expecting this to add about an extra fortnight to a month onto > mota developement time, glad to here that's not the case. > > As to the changelogs, sinse you listed bug fixes I sort of assumed > everything was in there, though it does make sense if you only list the > major well known bugs like the bouncing endless jumping one that happened > when you first introduced analogue jumping. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
what i'm saying is true, face facts wasn't meant to be hmurus meant to be plain facts On Aug 3, 2011, at 4:36 AM, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi, > I'm agreeing with you. I was referring to the less-than-humorous post > submitte by Wiliam (I really need to stop replying the replies of the post > I'm talking about). > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:33 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi Haiden > > I'm not sure where this came out of but I'm not criticising Tom and his > MOTA development by any means with the below post. > - Original Message - > From: "Hayden Presley" > To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > > Hi Ron, > I agree. That was one of the most un-amusing things I heard yesterday, as > far as that goes. My advice to you is, learn to program,, write your own > game, we'll see how long it takes to get a good, bug-free, stable release. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:58 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it > bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. > Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the > setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. > > - Original Message - > From: "william lomas" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > > we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol > the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i > think eventually people will lose interest > most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas > > On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > >> I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it >> >> -Original Message- >> From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >> Behalf Of Thomas Ward >> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed >> that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, >> but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. >> >> Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of >> the >> time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% >> is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no >> exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no >> exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't >> try >> to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the >> Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big >> problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is >> likely >> to set us back somewhat in the process. >> >> Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified >> Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the >> cross-platform >> engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of >> course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no >> big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work >> just >> fine." Wrong! >> >> Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with >> the >> Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The >> game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after >> 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela >> sometimes >> instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual >> bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of >> them. After a month of trying to correct them one by on
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
*nods* no troubles, I understand, no harm no foul. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi, I'm agreeing with you. I was referring to the less-than-humorous post submitte by Wiliam (I really need to stop replying the replies of the post I'm talking about). Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Haiden I'm not sure where this came out of but I'm not criticising Tom and his MOTA development by any means with the below post. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Ron, I agree. That was one of the most un-amusing things I heard yesterday, as far as that goes. My advice to you is, learn to program,, write your own game, we'll see how long it takes to get a good, bug-free, stable release. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed > that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, > but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of > the > time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% > is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no > exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no > exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't > try > to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the > Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big > problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is > likely > to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the > cross-platform > engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of > course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no > big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work > just > fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with > the > Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The > game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela > sometimes > instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual > bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of > them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up > trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be > fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative > to > the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is cal
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi, I'm agreeing with you. I was referring to the less-than-humorous post submitte by Wiliam (I really need to stop replying the replies of the post I'm talking about). Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Haiden I'm not sure where this came out of but I'm not criticising Tom and his MOTA development by any means with the below post. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Ron, I agree. That was one of the most un-amusing things I heard yesterday, as far as that goes. My advice to you is, learn to program,, write your own game, we'll see how long it takes to get a good, bug-free, stable release. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed > that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, > but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of > the > time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% > is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no > exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no > exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't > try > to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the > Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big > problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is > likely > to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the > cross-platform > engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of > course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no > big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work > just > fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with > the > Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The > game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela > sometimes > instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual > bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of > them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up > trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be > fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative > to > the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What > subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup > changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single > version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an > older
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Haiden I'm not sure where this came out of but I'm not criticising Tom and his MOTA development by any means with the below post. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Ron, I agree. That was one of the most un-amusing things I heard yesterday, as far as that goes. My advice to you is, learn to program,, write your own game, we'll see how long it takes to get a good, bug-free, stable release. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed > that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, > but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of > the > time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% > is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no > exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no > exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't > try > to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the > Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big > problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is > likely > to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the > cross-platform > engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of > course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no > big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work > just > fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with > the > Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The > game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela > sometimes > instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual > bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of > them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up > trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be > fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative > to > the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What > subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup > changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single > version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an > older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want > to > checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to > my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to > roll > back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than > necessary. > > So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout > 0.18, > beta 18, from su
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Ron, I agree. That was one of the most un-amusing things I heard yesterday, as far as that goes. My advice to you is, learn to program,, write your own game, we'll see how long it takes to get a good, bug-free, stable release. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ron Schamerhorn Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed > that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, > but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of > the > time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% > is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no > exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no > exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't > try > to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the > Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big > problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is > likely > to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the > cross-platform > engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of > course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no > big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work > just > fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with > the > Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The > game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela > sometimes > instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual > bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of > them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up > trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be > fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative > to > the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What > subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup > changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single > version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an > older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want > to > checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to > my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to > roll > back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than > necessary. > > So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout > 0.18, > beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn't nearly as buggy > as > beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can > attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I've forgotten what > exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta > 21. > Plus some feature
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Were there very many betas or patches to Aliens in the Outback? You betcha there were. --- "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Shaun, That doesnt' particularly bother me. If they want to joke and poke fun at what I'm doing it just goes to show their own ignorance. I'm pretty certain most of those doing the joking and poking fun wouldn't know how to write their own name in C++ let alone a complex game engine like Genesis 3D or a game as complex as Mysteries of the Ancients. Given the fact they are ignorant of how much time and energy it takes for a project of any size why would I bother giving their words any weight. That's kind of like the patient telling the doctor how to perform surgery when he himself has never gone to med school. As to the matter of waiting for v1.0 I could certainly do that, but there are a number of things I'm testing. I might be testing changes in the engine, changes in the game itself, and of course something like switching from the fixed jump system in beta 17 and earlier to a true analog jump system in beta 18 and later requires a bit of public testing to see if it works right and if the majority of the customers can handle it. Again this is something they don't probably have any idea about what I'm doing so they aren't exactly an authority on how a developer, in particular, how I go about testing various changes in the product. Finally, as to how many betas there are I'm not the only developer on earth who has had several betas. I can't remember the exact number but I seem to recall Che released sevral betas for Rail Racer before it went gold. It was something like 35 or 36 that I recall. Most of them were just small patches that fixed one or two things in the prior beta. However, I don't recall anyone poking fun at Che for releasing several betas on the Rail Racer list. In either case this is the developers own decision to release 35 betas or space them out and only release two or three major betas. The community at large shouldn't have anything to say about it. Cheers! On 8/1/11, shaun everiss wrote: On that note all the cross platform stuff is a good idea but maybe not for v1, though saying that all these new concepts that are going in are going to generate loads of headakes for users. And I have no problems waiting, its more that people that have preeorders in may be a bit angry which is understandable but usually if this was a standard project you wouldn't have this if it was your own. I aggree that we should probably just wait for v1 on the forum on audiogames many joke and complain about there being to many betas etc. Ok some of them are just mean and want to be flamed but yeah I wasn't going to say it but we probably should just wait for v1 then release then. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Tom. Wooo, that was fast, Has jeremy slipped you some of his super caffeinated coacane impregnated extra hot tabasco flavoured red bull? ;D. seriously, glad to here it's less of a task than it sounded at least to me, sinse I was expecting this to add about an extra fortnight to a month onto mota developement time, glad to here that's not the case. As to the changelogs, sinse you listed bug fixes I sort of assumed everything was in there, though it does make sense if you only list the major well known bugs like the bouncing endless jumping one that happened when you first introduced analogue jumping. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Dark, No, that's alright. I have the change logs for beta 19 and beta 20 in subversion. That's not really the problem. Its little bug fixes or miner changes here and there that don't get into the change logs that might get overlooked in updating beta 18 to beta 21. That said I've finally tracked down the mysterious bugs I mentioned in the original post here, and beta 21 will have all the features, bug fixes, and updates of beta 18, 19, and beta 20 only more stable. I'm actually doing final testing right now, and may have a release out as early as this afternoon. Probably tomorrow latest. So here's to hoping on getting out a stable release on par with beta 18. Cheers! On 8/2/11, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > I must admit this is slightly irritating news to me, who's been really > looking forward to the game. However, I will admit beta 18 is my favourite > version thus far and seemed the most stable, so what your doing here makes a > lot of sense and obviously this is all just part of software developement. > > thanks for letting us know, though I suspect your even more irritated at > this set back than we are. > > Btw, you mention not knowing what changes were in beta 20. > > Unfortunately the latest version of Mota I have on my laptop is beta 18, > though I do have beta 20 installed on my desktop. > > Would it help if people sent the changelog text files from beta 18, and 20, > to give you a better idea of what got added in betwene, and thus let you > know what new beta 21 should have in gameplay wise? > > just a thought. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
I personally wouldn't want less harpies, as Tom said there are plenty of monsters to go around, in fact you might say i'm perfectly harpy with the current number ;D. Beware the gRue1 Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi John, Hmmm...There isn't really an easy way to decrease the number of harpies in the game since that is completely random. There are usually three or four per level. Even if I did reduce the number of harpies I'm concerned that would make the game too easy. The skeletons for example are pretty much a bunch of push overs and the zombies, while harder to kill, still aren't a serious challenge. Its the centaurs and harpies that are the real challenge when it comes to normal enemies. Cheers! On 8/1/11, john wrote: Honestly, I can't say how happy I am that you're going back to beta 18. I've probably spent well over 24 hours playing that over and over, and already consider it a finished product. The only thing I'd like to request, as the harpee poison bug seems to be fixed in later versions, is that chance of running into harpees be decreased; poison makes them much more lethal, and it's hard enough to beat the game on anything over beginner even without the poison! Congratulations and thanks for the update, John. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Tom. I must admit this is slightly irritating news to me, who's been really looking forward to the game. However, I will admit beta 18 is my favourite version thus far and seemed the most stable, so what your doing here makes a lot of sense and obviously this is all just part of software developement. thanks for letting us know, though I suspect your even more irritated at this set back than we are. Btw, you mention not knowing what changes were in beta 20. Unfortunately the latest version of Mota I have on my laptop is beta 18, though I do have beta 20 installed on my desktop. Would it help if people sent the changelog text files from beta 18, and 20, to give you a better idea of what got added in betwene, and thus let you know what new beta 21 should have in gameplay wise? just a thought. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Shane, Well, that might all depend on weather or not beta 21 resolves the bugs and issues encountered in beta 20. Beta 20 had a long list of issues, I know what to look for, and if I correct them I don't expect anything really major to pop up after that. I can do a lot of initial testing myself to fix several of the bugs reported during the beta 20 public testing as I have reproduced the problems and if they go away for me it pretty much follows it will go away for you and everyone else as well. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Shane Davidson wrote: > might I suggest you release to the private beta team before going public? > Just a suggestion. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Willem, Well, in my opinion that kind of defeats the purpose of a beta though. If I send a beta to a private test team, find all the bugs, and then release it to the public with any and all bugs fixed its no longer beta software but a stable release. There is no need for that second public beta as I've fixed the bugs already. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Willem wrote: > Having a beta team would flush out serious issues to avoid releasing a > buggy beta to the public and shouldn't take more than a day or two. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi, Yes, I have a private testing team, but I've discovered that even with a private test team bugs, issues, etc will get through that a the wider community might notice and thus I can fix the issue faster than if weeks go by without a private tester stumbling on a certain bug or issue. The other reason I use public betas is I'm quite at home with that style of testing. Many people know that I generally use Linux as my primary OS of choice at home. One of the things Linux software developers do differently from Windows developers is they always make alphas and betas of the latest software available to the Linux community for testing and public review, comment, and so on. I believe this open approach to testing and problem solving is what makes the OS and its applications so stable and reliable. Linux developers don't rely on a handful of handpicked testers, but let the world wide community test it and offer constructive feedback as to what did and didn't work, what needs fixed, and so on. Generally an open testing polacy offers certain kinds of feedback you can not and will not get from a smaller team. Now, obviously if someone doesn't want to test the software they don't have to. I make no promises that a beta will be stable, work properly, or is in any way complete. That's why it is a beta. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi, > I thought I remembered Thomas having one, ut if I recollect correctly he was > having...issues with them. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi, I think the problem is that for those who have never played the mainstream games, hmmm well to put this not too delicately, the fixed jumping system is sort of like spoon feeding which is what so many people are used too. with mainstream gaming it's not like that at all. you have to use your own judgement whether it be good or otherwise. It's no different to spatial awareness. You'll learn to get better at it when you don't walk into so many walls lol. it takes time. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 02 August 2011 09:21 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Jeremy, That's pretty much what I have discovered as well. By opening the game up to public review and testing I've gotten a lot of feedback on what works and doesn't work and what people like and don't like. For Instance, in some prior betas I tested out FMOD Ex as a possible replacement for DirectSound on Windows and Open AL on Linux. That testing showed that the majority of gamers weren't satisfied with the end result because it didn't pan as smoothly or as well as say DirectSound. I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't tested it with the general public and might have licensed it for my engine and released it in v1.0 not knowing my customers' thoughts on the matter. By that time it would have been too late to remove it as FMOD costs hundreds in licensing fees, and after paying that much to use the API it wouldn't be a simple matter to take it out and use DirectSound or something else. So I'm very glad I found out early on that it wasn't going to work, and I didn't have to spend money on licensing it. On the flip side I introduced true analog jumping in beta 18, and while a few people still have issue with it most are at home with it. Especially, Dark and a few other guys who have some vision and play some mainstream console games and are familiar with the concept. So I have found out through testing that analog movement and jumping similar to mainstream games can be done in audio only. Public testing has really given me a clear idea of what works and what doesn't. Cheers! On 8/2/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: > I'm close to releasing my 16th beta, and it hasn't even been a month I don't > think. I believe Thomas has the right idea with releasing betas for the > community to give feedback on. This is not only a good way to catch bugs > that show up on different people's systems, but it also allows people to > voice concerns about things he may consider changing or tweaking. I am a > strong believer, that involving the community during development, will lead > to a better product. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Hayden, Well, at the moment I'm checking that out. I did some testing yesterday afternoon and the bugs, at least some of them, were caused by the game engine and not the game itself. I've fixed the bugs in the engine and recompiled beta 18 and beta 20 and found most of the problems went away. So I think I might be able to use beta 20 after all. That will be good as there are cumulative bug fixes and updates that were added in beta 19 and beta 20 that we wouldn't get if I use beta 18. So at this moment in time I think we are back on track now and beta 21 will be an upgrade of beta 20 with the bugs corrected and fixed. We'll know just as soon as I release beta 21 for public testing. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Thomas, > That is excellent news. Might I ask, however, is this the BETA 1`, I.E., the > one that fixes bugs in BETA 20, or the BETA 21 that will be more or less > BETA 18 in an up-to-date state? Ah well, as you said, stuff happens. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Jeremy, That's pretty much what I have discovered as well. By opening the game up to public review and testing I've gotten a lot of feedback on what works and doesn't work and what people like and don't like. For Instance, in some prior betas I tested out FMOD Ex as a possible replacement for DirectSound on Windows and OpenAL on Linux. That testing showed that the majority of gamers weren't satisfied with the end result because it didn't pan as smoothly or as well as say DirectSound. I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't tested it with the general public and might have licensed it for my engine and released it in v1.0 not knowing my customers' thoughts on the matter. By that time it would have been too late to remove it as FMOD costs hundreds in licensing fees, and after paying that much to use the API it wouldn't be a simple matter to take it out and use DirectSound or something else. So I'm very glad I found out early on that it wasn't going to work, and I didn't have to spend money on licensing it. On the flip side I introduced true analog jumping in beta 18, and while a few people still have issue with it most are at home with it. Especially, Dark and a few other guys who have some vision and play some mainstream console games and are familiar with the concept. So I have found out through testing that analog movement and jumping similar to mainstream games can be done in audio only. Public testing has really given me a clear idea of what works and what doesn't. Cheers! On 8/2/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: > I'm close to releasing my 16th beta, and it hasn't even been a month I don't > think. I believe Thomas has the right idea with releasing betas for the > community to give feedback on. This is not only a good way to catch bugs > that show up on different people's systems, but it also allows people to > voice concerns about things he may consider changing or tweaking. I am a > strong believer, that involving the community during development, will lead > to a better product. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
I'm close to releasing my 16th beta, and it hasn't even been a month I don't think. I believe Thomas has the right idea with releasing betas for the community to give feedback on. This is not only a good way to catch bugs that show up on different people's systems, but it also allows people to voice concerns about things he may consider changing or tweaking. I am a strong believer, that involving the community during development, will lead to a better product. > Hi Shaun, > > That doesnt' particularly bother me. If they want to joke > and poke fun > at what I'm doing it just goes to show their own ignorance. > I'm pretty > certain most of those doing the joking and poking fun > wouldn't know > how to write their own name in C++ let alone a complex game > engine > like Genesis 3D or a game as complex as Mysteries of the > Ancients. > Given the fact they are ignorant of how much time and > energy it takes > for a project of any size why would I bother giving their > words any > weight. That's kind of like the patient telling the doctor > how to > perform surgery when he himself has never gone to med > school. > > As to the matter of waiting for v1.0 I could certainly do > that, but > there are a number of things I'm testing. I might be > testing changes > in the engine, changes in the game itself, and of course > something > like switching from the fixed jump system in beta 17 and > earlier to a > true analog jump system in beta 18 and later requires a bit > of public > testing to see if it works right and if the majority of the > customers > can handle it. Again this is something they don't probably > have any > idea about what I'm doing so they aren't exactly an > authority on how a > developer, in particular, how I go about testing various > changes in > the product. > > Finally, as to how many betas there are I'm not the only > developer on > earth who has had several betas. I can't remember the exact > number but > I seem to recall Che released sevral betas for Rail Racer > before it > went gold. It was something like 35 or 36 that I recall. > Most of them > were just small patches that fixed one or two things in the > prior > beta. However, I don't recall anyone poking fun at Che for > releasing > several betas on the Rail Racer list. In either case this > is the > developers own decision to release 35 betas or space them > out and only > release two or three major betas. The community at large > shouldn't > have anything to say about it. > > Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Charles, Right. The Genesis 3D engine, G3D, and Mysteries of the Ancients started being developed in 2008. What took so aweful long was instead of creating Mysteries of the Ancients right away I had to create, update, and debug the engine and then create the game itself using said engine. Now, if I had stuck with .Net the game would have been done a year ago, but I decided in Decenber 2009 that I should drop .Net and switch the engine and game over to C++. That took about six months to a year to get everything fully converted and working as before. Now, if I were to start a new game tomorrow it wouldn't take nearly as long to create because A, I have an existing game engine, and B, I'm not going to be writing it in .Net and switch to C++ just when the game is nearly done. In short, a lot of time was spent on experimental code or in rewrites rather than actual development here. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Charles Rivard wrote: > Remember the reason why we are given these betas. Test for bugs, find bugs, > report bugs. He works on fixing them, resulting in a 1.0 version that is > worth the wait. > > Also, 6 years?? It seems like he's been working on it for about 3 years to > me. I don't believe Thomas started this project in 2005. I think it was > 2008 at the earliest. If so, do the math. (grin) > > --- > "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Shaun, That doesnt' particularly bother me. If they want to joke and poke fun at what I'm doing it just goes to show their own ignorance. I'm pretty certain most of those doing the joking and poking fun wouldn't know how to write their own name in C++ let alone a complex game engine like Genesis 3D or a game as complex as Mysteries of the Ancients. Given the fact they are ignorant of how much time and energy it takes for a project of any size why would I bother giving their words any weight. That's kind of like the patient telling the doctor how to perform surgery when he himself has never gone to med school. As to the matter of waiting for v1.0 I could certainly do that, but there are a number of things I'm testing. I might be testing changes in the engine, changes in the game itself, and of course something like switching from the fixed jump system in beta 17 and earlier to a true analog jump system in beta 18 and later requires a bit of public testing to see if it works right and if the majority of the customers can handle it. Again this is something they don't probably have any idea about what I'm doing so they aren't exactly an authority on how a developer, in particular, how I go about testing various changes in the product. Finally, as to how many betas there are I'm not the only developer on earth who has had several betas. I can't remember the exact number but I seem to recall Che released sevral betas for Rail Racer before it went gold. It was something like 35 or 36 that I recall. Most of them were just small patches that fixed one or two things in the prior beta. However, I don't recall anyone poking fun at Che for releasing several betas on the Rail Racer list. In either case this is the developers own decision to release 35 betas or space them out and only release two or three major betas. The community at large shouldn't have anything to say about it. Cheers! On 8/1/11, shaun everiss wrote: > On that note all the cross platform stuff is a good idea but maybe > not for v1, though saying that all these new concepts that are going > in are going to generate loads of headakes for users. > And I have no problems waiting, its more that people that have > preeorders in may be a bit angry which is understandable but usually > if this was a standard project you wouldn't have this if it was your own. > I aggree that we should probably just wait for v1 on the forum on > audiogames many joke and complain about there being to many betas etc. > Ok some of them are just mean and want to be flamed but yeah I wasn't > going to say it but we probably should just wait for v1 then release then. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
well thats good to know. At 08:34 a.m. 2/08/2011, you wrote: Hi, No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an old expression, "stuff happens." Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: > I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it > bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. > Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the > setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
true tom. At 06:54 a.m. 2/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Will, I don't know where you get six years from. I started Mysteries of the Ancients in 2008. As far as I can see 2008 to 2011 doesn't add up to six years of development time do you? Anyway, to answer your question the reason I'm putting out the public betas instead of holding off for 1.0 is that people can test it and point out bugs and issues I otherwise might overlook. If I released 1.0 without these public betas there may be some bugs or issues I overlooked and I'd in a sense be doing then what I'm already doing now in testing the game after the fact. HTH On 8/1/11, william lomas wrote: > we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol > the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i > think eventually people will lose interest > most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
On that note all the cross platform stuff is a good idea but maybe not for v1, though saying that all these new concepts that are going in are going to generate loads of headakes for users. And I have no problems waiting, its more that people that have preeorders in may be a bit angry which is understandable but usually if this was a standard project you wouldn't have this if it was your own. I aggree that we should probably just wait for v1 on the forum on audiogames many joke and complain about there being to many betas etc. Ok some of them are just mean and want to be flamed but yeah I wasn't going to say it but we probably should just wait for v1 then release then. At 06:26 a.m. 2/08/2011, you wrote: we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed > that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, > but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the > time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% > is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no > exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no > exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't try > to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the > Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big > problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely > to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform > engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of > course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no > big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just > fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the > Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The > game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes > instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual > bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of > them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up > trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be > fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to > the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What > subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup > changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single > version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an > older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to > checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to > my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll > back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than > necessary. > > So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, > beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn't nearly as buggy as > beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can > attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I've forgotten what > exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. > Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won't be > available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the > Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our > development schedule, but I think this is
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Remember the reason why we are given these betas. Test for bugs, find bugs, report bugs. He works on fixing them, resulting in a 1.0 version that is worth the wait. Also, 6 years?? It seems like he's been working on it for about 3 years to me. I don't believe Thomas started this project in 2005. I think it was 2008 at the earliest. If so, do the math. (grin) --- "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn't nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I've forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won't be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I'm going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Harpies add replay value. --- "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." - Original Message - From: "john" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Honestly, I can't say how happy I am that you're going back to beta 18. I've probably spent well over 24 hours playing that over and over, and already consider it a finished product. The only thing I'd like to request, as the harpee poison bug seems to be fixed in later versions, is that chance of running into harpees be decreased; poison makes them much more lethal, and it's hard enough to beat the game on anything over beginner even without the poison! Congratulations and thanks for the update, John. -- From: "Thomas Ward" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:31 PM To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I’ve got a hard lesson in if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I’ve come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren’t too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I’ll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I’ve fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I’ve given up trying on the current version. I’ve concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn’t nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I’ve forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won’t be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I’m going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I’ll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on eve
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
And, knowing your ornery ways, we'll see a lot of those dastardly dudes, won't we? (grin) --- "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi John, Hmmm...There isn't really an easy way to decrease the number of harpies in the game since that is completely random. There are usually three or four per level. Even if I did reduce the number of harpies I'm concerned that would make the game too easy. The skeletons for example are pretty much a bunch of push overs and the zombies, while harder to kill, still aren't a serious challenge. Its the centaurs and harpies that are the real challenge when it comes to normal enemies. Cheers! On 8/1/11, john wrote: Honestly, I can't say how happy I am that you're going back to beta 18. I've probably spent well over 24 hours playing that over and over, and already consider it a finished product. The only thing I'd like to request, as the harpee poison bug seems to be fixed in later versions, is that chance of running into harpees be decreased; poison makes them much more lethal, and it's hard enough to beat the game on anything over beginner even without the poison! Congratulations and thanks for the update, John. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
If you're saying that a beta team will get a bug free product to the public in a day or two, think again. (grin) --- "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." - Original Message - From: "Willem" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Having a beta team would flush out serious issues to avoid releasing a buggy beta to the public and shouldn't take more than a day or two. On 8/2/2011 1:18 AM, john wrote: Shane, I think that point of offering the betas at all is so that everyone can comment on the game. If Thomas were to set up some kind of private team, this would limit the number of people that could help with the beta. From my personal perspective, offering the game to a private team would really! cut down on the amount of enjoyment a player could get. As I said in an earlier email, I've spent well over 24 hours playing beta 18, and it hasn't gotten old. Just my personal opinions, John. -- From: "Shane Davidson" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:58 PM To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks might I suggest you release to the private beta team before going public? Just a suggestion. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:35 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi, No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an old expression, "stuff happens." Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Thomas, That is excellent news. Might I ask, however, is this the BETA 1`, I.E., the one that fixes bugs in BETA 20, or the BETA 21 that will be more or less BETA 18 in an up-to-date state? Ah well, as you said, stuff happens. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:19 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Shane, I think that point of offering the betas at all is so that everyone can comment on the game. If Thomas were to set up some kind of private team, this would limit the number of people that could help with the beta. From my personal perspective, offering the game to a private team would really! cut down on the amount of enjoyment a player could get. As I said in an earlier email, I've spent well over 24 hours playing beta 18, and it hasn't gotten old. Just my personal opinions, John. -- From: "Shane Davidson" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:58 PM To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > might I suggest you release to the private beta team before going public? > Just a suggestion. > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:35 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi, > > No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and > yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us > off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an > old expression, "stuff happens." > > Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and > experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in > the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked > and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform > version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() > function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of > wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 > and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs > I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as > bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two > or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. > > Cheers! > > On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: >> I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it >> bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. >> Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the >> setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. >> > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3804 - Release Date: 08/01/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the w
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi, I thought I remembered Thomas having one, ut if I recollect correctly he was having...issues with them. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Willem Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:49 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Having a beta team would flush out serious issues to avoid releasing a buggy beta to the public and shouldn't take more than a day or two. On 8/2/2011 1:18 AM, john wrote: > Shane, I think that point of offering the betas at all is so that > everyone can comment on the game. If Thomas were to set up some kind > of private team, this would limit the number of people that could help > with the beta. >From my personal perspective, offering the game to a private team > would really! cut down on the amount of enjoyment a player could get. > As I said in an earlier email, I've spent well over 24 hours playing > beta 18, and it hasn't gotten old. > > Just my personal opinions, > John. > > -- > From: "Shane Davidson" > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:58 PM > To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > >> might I suggest you release to the private beta team before going >> public? >> Just a suggestion. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org >> [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >> Behalf Of Thomas Ward >> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:35 PM >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks >> >> Hi, >> >> No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and >> yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us >> off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an >> old expression, "stuff happens." >> >> Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and >> experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in >> the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked >> and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform >> version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() >> function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of >> wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 >> and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs >> I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as >> bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two >> or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. >> >> Cheers! >> >> On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: >>> I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to >>> put it >>> bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. >>> Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the >>> setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. >>> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@aud
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Having a beta team would flush out serious issues to avoid releasing a buggy beta to the public and shouldn't take more than a day or two. On 8/2/2011 1:18 AM, john wrote: Shane, I think that point of offering the betas at all is so that everyone can comment on the game. If Thomas were to set up some kind of private team, this would limit the number of people that could help with the beta. From my personal perspective, offering the game to a private team would really! cut down on the amount of enjoyment a player could get. As I said in an earlier email, I've spent well over 24 hours playing beta 18, and it hasn't gotten old. Just my personal opinions, John. -- From: "Shane Davidson" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:58 PM To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks might I suggest you release to the private beta team before going public? Just a suggestion. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:35 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi, No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an old expression, "stuff happens." Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
It will take a couple of weeks to fix? Only a couple of weeks? As a gamer, to me, it's worth the wait. Start with what almost works and resume the work from there. That's a lot better than having to deal with the cascading effect of fixing bug A which causes bug B, C, and D, then fixing B which causes bug E and so on. I think you're taking the sensible approach. --- "Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord." - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 12:31 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I’ve got a hard lesson in if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I’ve come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren’t too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I’ll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I’ve fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I’ve given up trying on the current version. I’ve concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn’t nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I’ve forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won’t be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I’m going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I’ll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone’s part. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.o
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Shane, I think that point of offering the betas at all is so that everyone can comment on the game. If Thomas were to set up some kind of private team, this would limit the number of people that could help with the beta. From my personal perspective, offering the game to a private team would really! cut down on the amount of enjoyment a player could get. As I said in an earlier email, I've spent well over 24 hours playing beta 18, and it hasn't gotten old. Just my personal opinions, John. -- From: "Shane Davidson" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:58 PM To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks might I suggest you release to the private beta team before going public? Just a suggestion. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:35 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi, No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an old expression, "stuff happens." Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
might I suggest you release to the private beta team before going public? Just a suggestion. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:35 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi, No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an old expression, "stuff happens." Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: > I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it > bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. > Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the > setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hey man. Do what you gotta do. I'm behind you. tim Kilgore - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 12:31 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I’ve got a hard lesson in if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I’ve come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren’t too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I’ll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I’ve fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I’ve given up trying on the current version. I’ve concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn’t nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I’ve forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won’t be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I’m going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I’ll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone’s part. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived a
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi John, Hmmm...There isn't really an easy way to decrease the number of harpies in the game since that is completely random. There are usually three or four per level. Even if I did reduce the number of harpies I'm concerned that would make the game too easy. The skeletons for example are pretty much a bunch of push overs and the zombies, while harder to kill, still aren't a serious challenge. Its the centaurs and harpies that are the real challenge when it comes to normal enemies. Cheers! On 8/1/11, john wrote: > Honestly, I can't say how happy I am that you're going back to beta 18. I've > probably spent well over 24 hours playing that over and over, and already > consider it a finished product. > The only thing I'd like to request, as the harpee poison bug seems to be > fixed in later versions, is that chance of running into harpees be > decreased; poison makes them much more lethal, and it's hard enough to beat > the game on anything over beginner even without the poison! > > Congratulations and thanks for the update, > John. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi, No kidding. I've tried really hard to produce a decent product, and yes there have been unforeseen setbacks like this one that knocks us off schedule. Its definitely not something to joke about. To modify an old expression, "stuff happens." Ironically, after I sent this post I tried to compile beta 18 and experienced some of the same bugs so it would appear the problem is in the engine, IE the core, and not the game source itself. So I looked and bingo there was a line of code I copied from the cross-platform version of the engine in there which was calling the UpdateGameState() function when it shouldn't be and it totally threw the timing out of wack. I removed it, recompiled the library, and linked it into beta 20 and several bugs vanished at once. However, there are still a few bugs I've got to track down, but it would appear this situation isn't as bad or hopeless as I first thought. The upside is that instead of two or three weeks maybe I can release beta 21 in a couple of days. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Ron Schamerhorn wrote: > I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it > bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. > Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the > setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
I'm guessing this was intended to be somewhat humourous. Well to put it bluntly itwent over like a lead balloon. Tom has been working his backside off for the game and some of the setbacks were circumstances beyond anyones control. - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed > that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, > but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of > the > time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% > is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no > exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no > exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't > try > to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the > Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big > problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is > likely > to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the > cross-platform > engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of > course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no > big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work > just > fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with > the > Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The > game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela > sometimes > instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual > bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of > them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up > trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be > fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative > to > the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What > subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup > changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single > version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an > older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want > to > checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to > my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to > roll > back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than > necessary. > > So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout > 0.18, > beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn't nearly as buggy > as > beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can > attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I've forgotten what > exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta > 21. > Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won't be > available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of > the > Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our > development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the > only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not > present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. > > I'm going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon,
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Honestly, I can't say how happy I am that you're going back to beta 18. I've probably spent well over 24 hours playing that over and over, and already consider it a finished product. The only thing I'd like to request, as the harpee poison bug seems to be fixed in later versions, is that chance of running into harpees be decreased; poison makes them much more lethal, and it's hard enough to beat the game on anything over beginner even without the poison! Congratulations and thanks for the update, John. -- From: "Thomas Ward" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:31 PM To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I’ve got a hard lesson in if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I’ve come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren’t too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I’ll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I’ve fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I’ve given up trying on the current version. I’ve concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn’t nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I’ve forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won’t be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I’m going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I’ll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone’s part. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are a
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
On the contrary, I like playing the betas as they come out and seeing what's been added. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of william lomas Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] > On Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have > noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on > the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% > of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and > the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must > confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of > the Ancients is no exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if > it isn't broke don't try to fix it. Reason being after a month of > trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize > what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how > I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the > cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present > in beta 18, but of course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for > audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I'll just change everything back, > recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it > with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever > since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches > burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela > sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all > sorts of unusual bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the > bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one > by one I've given up trying on the current version. I've concluded > while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly > less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. > What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or > backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store > every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want > to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion > and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will > download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a > simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if > necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. > > So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout > 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn't nearly > as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from > subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as > I've forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. > Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won't > be available to you until I go back in and add that support to > Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set > us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary > measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these > bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. > > I'm going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring > beta > 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we > test that,
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Indeed. Fair enough then -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi Darren, Smile. I wasn't planning on doing anything else. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up what to expect. The easiest way to forestall questions is to answer them ahead of time. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. _ NOD32 EMON 6341 (20110801) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com _ NOD32 EMON 6341 (20110801) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Darren, Smile. I wasn't planning on doing anything else. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up what to expect. The easiest way to forestall questions is to answer them ahead of time. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Will, I don't know where you get six years from. I started Mysteries of the Ancients in 2008. As far as I can see 2008 to 2011 doesn't add up to six years of development time do you? Anyway, to answer your question the reason I'm putting out the public betas instead of holding off for 1.0 is that people can test it and point out bugs and issues I otherwise might overlook. If I released 1.0 without these public betas there may be some bugs or issues I overlooked and I'd in a sense be doing then what I'm already doing now in testing the game after the fact. HTH On 8/1/11, william lomas wrote: > we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol > the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i > think eventually people will lose interest > most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi Bryan, Smile. Any sensable person would want that. I just posted that message to let everyone know the score here that I basically screwed the source for Mysteris of the Ancients beyond repair when I converted it to run on Linux and then back again, and somewhere along the line I introduced some buggy and extremely unstable code into the mix I'm having troubles tracking down and fixing. The best thing to do, at least from my opinion, is go back to a truly stable release, beta 18, and try and perform the upgrades I was doing with a more stable version to begin with. Cheers! On 8/1/11, Bryan Peterson wrote: > I'd rather have a delayed and as bug-free as possible MOTA than a rushed one > with loads of unsquashed bugs. > We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
we have been waiting for six years a few weeks no different now lol the game will be out eventually but why not just wait for version 1 as i think eventually people will lose interest most of us buying it have played levels 1 and 2 for the last ten or so betas On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Darren Duff wrote: > I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks > > Hi everyone, > > I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed > that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, > but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. > > Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the > time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% > is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no > exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no > exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't try > to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the > Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big > problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely > to set us back somewhat in the process. > > Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified > Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform > engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of > course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no > big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just > fine." Wrong! > > Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the > Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The > game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after > 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes > instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual > bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of > them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up > trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be > fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to > the problem which I will explain below. > > As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. > One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What > subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup > changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single > version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an > older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to > checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to > my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll > back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than > necessary. > > So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, > beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn't nearly as buggy as > beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can > attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I've forgotten what > exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. > Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won't be > available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the > Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our > development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the > only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not > present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. > > I'm going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta > 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test > that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, > etc I'll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in > trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to > really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem > is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone&#x
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
I say do what ya gotta do man. We can wait for it -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:32 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I've got a hard lesson in if it isn't broke don't try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I've come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren't too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I'll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I've fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I've given up trying on the current version. I've concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn't nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I've forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won't be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I'm going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I'll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone's part. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. _ NOD32 EMON 6341 (20110801) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com _ NOD32 EMON 6
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
I'd rather have a delayed and as bug-free as possible MOTA than a rushed one with loads of unsquashed bugs. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:31 AM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I’ve got a hard lesson in if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I’ve come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren’t too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I’ll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I’ve fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I’ve given up trying on the current version. I’ve concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn’t nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I’ve forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won’t be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I’m going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I’ll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone’s part. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at h
[Audyssey] MOTA Development setbacks
Hi everyone, I know a number of you have asked about beta 21. Many of you have noticed that the Mysteries of the Ancients home page says beta 21 on the website, but there is no download available. Well, here is the reason why. Anyone who has been programming for any length of time knows that 25% of the time is actually spent on writing/designing the software and the other 75% is spent on debugging or trying to fix it. I must confess that I am no exception to the rule. In particular Mysteries of the Ancients is no exception either, and I’ve got a hard lesson in if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. Reason being after a month of trying to fix Mysteries of the Ancients beta 20 I’ve come to realize what I have on my hands is a big problem. Oh, it can be fixed but how I plan to resolve the problem is likely to set us back somewhat in the process. Basically, what happened is when I started work on beta 19 I modified Mysteries of the Ancients so it would compile and run on the cross-platform engine. Along the way I fixed a number of bugs present in beta 18, but of course people weren’t too happy about FMOD Ex for audio. So I thought, "no big deal. I’ll just change everything back, recompile, and it will work just fine." Wrong! Sometime after I edited the MOTA beta 19 source code, recompiled it with the Windows G3D engine the game has never worked quite right ever since. The game crashes when you alt+tab away from the window, torches burn out after 25 seconds or so, levers reset before they are suppose to, Angela sometimes instantly dies after getting attacked by a Harpy, and all sorts of unusual bugs like that. I’ve fixed or addressed some of the bugs, but not all of them. After a month of trying to correct them one by one I’ve given up trying on the current version. I’ve concluded while the bugs might be fixable there might be a simpler but slightly less desirable alternative to the problem which I will explain below. As many of you know I use a Linux computer for much of my day to day work. One of the programming tools I have installed is called subversion. What subversion does for a developer like myself is I can checkin or backup changes to an ongoing project and it will catalog and store every single version of the source code being worked on. So if I want to return to an older release it is easy as logging into subversion and telling it I want to checkout the 0.18 source code and it will download the 0.18 source code to my project directory. This makes it a simple matter for a developer to roll back to a prior release if necessary. In this case I think it is more than necessary. So what I plan to do is delete the beta 20/21 source code and checkout 0.18, beta 18, from subversion since I know that version wasn’t nearly as buggy as beta 20. Once I checkout the beta 18 source code from subversion I can attempt to patch it with some of the changes, but as I’ve forgotten what exactly I fixed in beta 19 and beta 20 some old bugs may return in beta 21. Plus some features such as speech interrupt were added later and won’t be available to you until I go back in and add that support to Mysteries of the Ancients. Basically, as I said earlier this will set us back on our development schedule, but I think this is a necessary measure as it is the only way I can think of to correct some of these bugs that simply were not present in beta 18 and earlier. So here is the plan. I’m going to checkout beta 18 this afternoon, work on a patch to bring beta 18 more or less up to current, and release that as beta 21. Once we test that, find any bugs that need fixed, features that need to be put back in, etc I’ll release an update, beta 22, to resolve any left over issues in trying to upgrade beta 18 to current. It could take a couple of weeks to really get everything back up to speed so to speak, but I think the problem is fixable. It will just take a little time and patients on everyone’s part. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
