Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Is it the version that is in the shape of a triangle with the pegs arranged like a rack of billiard balls in rows of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, each centered on the board? If so, I'll see if I can remember how to do that one. I have done it, but it was a long time ago. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Charles in #54 the first part of Hi-q was published and the second part or solution file is upcoming. I appreciaite the contributions. In fact that was never a game I ever solved without a few pegs left. While talking about this do you have a solution for the single row version? I think it's about 15 holes or 14 pegs. It usually was included with the plus sign styled bored. Thanks for the positive thoughts on the mag. Talk soon Ron - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag His complaints are why I don't read his messages. Your responses to them, which are right on the button, are why I do read yours. Speaking of the mag, as the subject line indicates, I'm sure glad to hear that an issue will be out soon, with another to follow. It is a one-stop place that gamers can obtain a comprehensive indication on what's going on in the VI gaming community, what to try or not to try based on firsthand experiences, and reports, by other VI gamers, and what may be in store for the future. And speaking of articles for the mag, it's been a long time ago, so I don't remember if the two articles I wrote dealing with Hi Q were published. One told how to inexpensively make your own version of the game and what the object of the puzzle game is, the other gave the solution So, Ron, if you have those articles, feel free to publish. If you don't, I'll send them if I still have them. One more thing, and I do apologize for this lengthy post: Where can I download copies of all prior issues? The folder that I had, containing all of the prior issues, has somehow gotten deleted. They make such good reference material, I do want to get them all back. Thanks much.. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:02 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Shaun, I think you are being overly pessimisticwhen it comes to your personal views of the audio games community. Weather you realize it or not there is quite a lot more going on than you have given credit for, and I'd like to take this time to give some credit where credit is do and perhaps give you a more positive outlook on the community in general. Shaun wrote: However since the issue release seems to only be one every time you remember, or something, hmmm I don't know. My reply: I think that's a little unfair. Ron has had a number of personal issues to deal with, some he is willing to discuss and some he is not, but as with game development its all pretty much done on a voluntary basis, and I think you can give the guy a break for putting the magazine off until he was mentally, emotionally, and physically up to taking on the magazine again. If he can now dedicate himself to a quarterly release schedule that's great. If not we should be understanding enough to see that he is only one person and is doing this voluntarily on his own time and energy. Shaun wrote: There is almost no need for the letters section or the emails sections as these are shoved on the list. My reply: Not everyone is on the Audyssey list. Many are over on the audiogames.net forum, not on this list, and there are likely some people who aren't on either the forum or list who receive the magazine. The letters/e-mails section is a great way for them to keep up to speed with events without having to sub to the list or forum. Shaun wrote: There are so many opensource and freeware companies now that there are to many to count. My reply: You make that sound like a bad thing, and it certainly is not. From my perspective this makes the magazine all the more worth while as it gives new freeware and open source developers another outlet to talk about their games, announce their existence, and something we all can read regardless of what list or forums we may be on. While I might agree that someone's new Guess the Number game might not be particularly news or magazine worthy there have been a number of free games that should be mentioned in the magazine. Jeremy has released a surprising number of decent freeware games like Castaways that certainly deserves mention in the magazine, and its possible
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi tom, I look forward to trying that out when the game comes out of beta. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 01 August 2011 01:38 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Darren, Agreed. That was basically my point in my prior post on comparing Pull to Duck Hunt. I don't think we should just accept a lower standard because it is quicker, easier, it was a first game, whatever. There are clear cut features that are easy enough to put in place and for reasons only known to the developers who create the audio games they aren't always followed or added. For instance, take the analog jump system in Mysteries of the Ancients. I've gotten a number of complaints about it simply because a lot of VI gamers aren't use to timing a jump. Yet analog jumping has been in about every mainstream game i can think of from Montezuma's Revenge, to Super Mario Brothers, to Donkey Kong, to Tomb Raider. It was actually something quite simple to add, and I find it a bit surprising that I'm currently the only audio game developer using that type of jump system in my games. That's just a small example of how there is an existing standard in mainstream games that hasn't yet made it into wide use in audio games yet. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, Well in the end, fact always wins over fiction. So really to be blunt again, people need to stop burying their heads in the sand and face the music. These simple games aren't going to cut it in the real world. They're good to practice on I can see the logic in that in terms of how to get code working, but equally that doesn't to my mind justify a release each time. how many space invader clones do we have now? the only thing that hasn't really been cloned to death is packman which is good because the job that Phil did with packman talks is a masterpiece in it's own right. The facts are these: 1. Developers are indeed starting from scratch and learning as they go. This I accept and openly acknowledge. I can't programme for the life of me so I'm not going to sit here and debate how easy or difficult x game is to create. 2. whether a person is self-taught or whether you go to school and learn, we all have to start somewhere. Again I totally accept this. But with experience comes improved quality of product. It's just the same as with any business venture. The longer you are in a given business providing you survive, the more you can refine and train yourself to do better, produce a better product or service. So to put this into the gaming context, the more you progress the better games you can produce and also there's plenty of knowledge and resources here to draw upon. In the mainstream gaming community, too much cloning will simply bore people and you won't have the attention you once had. Which in the long run can and will only serve to damage you. If the Audyssey Magazine is constantly full of these clones and there isn't an effective streamlining process, then it will kill the Magazine. pure and simple. Thus why gaming Magazines have a rating system for games and not everything gets in. At the end of the day, it's the people that drive the types of games that are produced and it's the Magazines that effectively report back to the people. So my question is, in order to support the masses, are we going to just accept that there can be a ton of low budget games out there to play that aren't too different from each other? or is a little time and patients worth the increase in the quality of game? That is the trade-off isn't it. personally I'm content to sit back and see what happens. In other words, let the developers do what they're best at. Let the newbies learn how to develop to a set standard thus over time the wait will be less because the more progressing developers there are out there, the increase in titles we'll see over time. If you yourself were working in the mainstream community and it was taking as long as it's taking you now to develop your game, the simple fact is that until your game is released, people will go and play other titles because they are available and there. by adhering and accepting the lower quality games we're doing ourselves much more harm than good in the long run in my opinion. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Jeremy, Right. In that way we are thinking quite a lot alike. We each see things that could be improved, new types of games to add to the community, and all of it is to the good. I also like your idea of someone writing an article in the Audyssey Magazine covering various development aspects like game ideas, features, control features, level layouts, etc that have been successful and that worked out well for the game players at large. I myself am experimenting with such issues right now in Mysteries of the Ancients as some of the features I've added were not really tried in an audio only format before. One of those is an analog jump system. Which isn't really hard to add, but has been largely avoided until now. Of course, analog jumping has been present in every mainstream game from Montezuma's Revenge, to Donkey Kong, to Super Mario Brothers, right up to the present. The problem with that is though that since you have to time or gauge the length of a jump that sometimes requires a bit of site to see weather or not you need to do a short hop, a short jump, or a very big jump to overcome the trap ahead. One way I have dealt with this issue is by changing the pitch of the pits so you can hear if the pit is large or small. A large chasm will have a deeper wind sound than a smaller one. If a player comes upon a deep windy sounding pit sound he or she might consider giving Angela a run-up before jumping. If the chasm wind sound sounds higher he or she can try and perform a standing jump. It is actually pretty accessible, and I've found analog jumping can be just as accessible in an audio only format as in a video format. The only catch I think I've ran into in regards to analog jumping is the players themselves. Many of them are use to a fixed jump, IE a fixed length to jump, and often let up on the jump keys too quick or too late ending up in the fire, lava, spikes, etc. I think though that this issue can be solved with time and practice as its a slightly more advanced type of jump than they are use to and they need time and practice to get use to it. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: Thank you Thomas. It seems like we are on the same page here. Of course we are concentrating on different things, the common thread is that we are seeing the importance of pushing forward. You are hoping to push higher standards of development, I am trying to push for some different ideas that I haven't seen here, while I'm sure others are pushing for new interface ideas for existing game types. In the future we need all of these things, and more! We can't expect anyone to work on everything, but as long as we can get people pushing forward in their own unique way, it opens the door for the advancements to be combined. It is inevitable that future developers will use game ideas someone had to pioneer, develop them to a quality standard someone had to push to happen, and use far greater controls which someone took the time to envision. A person pushing advancements down any path, will eventually work its way into everything else. I wouldn't be qualified to handle this, but if anyone else feels up to it, I know what kind of articles I would be very interested in reading. Pick some style of game that is popular now, I'll use side scroller as an example. Write about the earlier games that used the style, pointing out how each improved the style and raised the bar for the next game. I would love to read about game ideas, control features, level layouts, and so forth that clearly worked well and then showed up in later games. Detailing how changes solved past problems, and bringing attention to what problems still seem to exist today, will help encourage people to theorize their own solutions to the problems. Just off of the top of my head, how pits or raised platforms are handled seems to be something of a current issue. People have tried different approaches in games, and I'm sure there Has! to have been a steady stream of advancement in this area. I'm sure the sidescroller developers have ideas for how to further improve them down the road also. This kind of stuff is very interesting to me, because it would shed light on a puzzle which has been passed from developer to developer. I might learn that my idea has been tried by someone, and I could read about how well or poorly it was received by the players. Hopefully it would breed discussion, and speed up the rate of new advancements. I'm just tossing ideas out there. It is always annoying when someone suggests that a job be done, but doesn't volunteer to do it himself, lol! For that, I apologize everyone! :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I think the problem is better the devil you know than the devil you don't. In some ways the audio games community certainly our side of it has been going round in circles for quite a few years with a few acceptions. So really what needs to happen is for people to realise that there is something good to be had from breaking the cycle. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 01 August 2011 10:06 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Jeremy, Right. In that way we are thinking quite a lot alike. We each see things that could be improved, new types of games to add to the community, and all of it is to the good. I also like your idea of someone writing an article in the Audyssey Magazine covering various development aspects like game ideas, features, control features, level layouts, etc that have been successful and that worked out well for the game players at large. I myself am experimenting with such issues right now in Mysteries of the Ancients as some of the features I've added were not really tried in an audio only format before. One of those is an analog jump system. Which isn't really hard to add, but has been largely avoided until now. Of course, analog jumping has been present in every mainstream game from Montezuma's Revenge, to Donkey Kong, to Super Mario Brothers, right up to the present. The problem with that is though that since you have to time or gauge the length of a jump that sometimes requires a bit of site to see weather or not you need to do a short hop, a short jump, or a very big jump to overcome the trap ahead. One way I have dealt with this issue is by changing the pitch of the pits so you can hear if the pit is large or small. A large chasm will have a deeper wind sound than a smaller one. If a player comes upon a deep windy sounding pit sound he or she might consider giving Angela a run-up before jumping. If the chasm wind sound sounds higher he or she can try and perform a standing jump. It is actually pretty accessible, and I've found analog jumping can be just as accessible in an audio only format as in a video format. The only catch I think I've ran into in regards to analog jumping is the players themselves. Many of them are use to a fixed jump, IE a fixed length to jump, and often let up on the jump keys too quick or too late ending up in the fire, lava, spikes, etc. I think though that this issue can be solved with time and practice as its a slightly more advanced type of jump than they are use to and they need time and practice to get use to it. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: Thank you Thomas. It seems like we are on the same page here. Of course we are concentrating on different things, the common thread is that we are seeing the importance of pushing forward. You are hoping to push higher standards of development, I am trying to push for some different ideas that I haven't seen here, while I'm sure others are pushing for new interface ideas for existing game types. In the future we need all of these things, and more! We can't expect anyone to work on everything, but as long as we can get people pushing forward in their own unique way, it opens the door for the advancements to be combined. It is inevitable that future developers will use game ideas someone had to pioneer, develop them to a quality standard someone had to push to happen, and use far greater controls which someone took the time to envision. A person pushing advancements down any path, will eventually work its way into everything else. I wouldn't be qualified to handle this, but if anyone else feels up to it, I know what kind of articles I would be very interested in reading. Pick some style of game that is popular now, I'll use side scroller as an example. Write about the earlier games that used the style, pointing out how each improved the style and raised the bar for the next game. I would love to read about game ideas, control features, level layouts, and so forth that clearly worked well and then showed up in later games. Detailing how changes solved past problems, and bringing attention to what problems still seem to exist today, will help encourage people to theorize their own solutions to the problems. Just off of the top of my head, how pits or raised platforms are handled seems to be something of a current issue. People have tried different approaches in games, and I'm sure there Has! to have been a steady stream of advancement in this area. I'm sure the sidescroller developers have ideas for how to further improve them down the road also. This kind of stuff is very interesting to me, because it would shed light on a puzzle which has been passed from developer to developer. I might learn that my idea has been tried by someone, and I could read about how well or poorly it was received
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Shaun, I'm afraid you completely missed the point. Weather someone has updated equipment, programs in language x, whatever really has nothing to do with it. It has more to do with the fact there are certain common features I would call standards in mainstream games that don't often get included in audio games because the developer doesn't know about them or he or she doesn't know how to program it. Either way it is something of a problem as we are in a sense accepting a lower standard or quality of games because of it. I'll return to my comparison of Pull to Dunk Hunt I posted to the list yesterday. Pull is a simple game in concept, which is perfectly fine as far as that goes, but it lacks many common features a game like Duck Hunt has which would improve the game play if they were added. Things like increasing the speed of the clay pigeons after each round, randomly changing the direction where the clay pigeons are launched from, add more clay pigeons to target, a dedicated scoring system, high score board, perhaps two-player mode, etc isn't really all that much to ask. These are fairly simple additions or features that could be made to improve the game to make it more like mainstream games of that genre or type. You see what I mean? This has absolutely nothing to do with system specs, 64bit, and all this stuff you seem to think is required to catch up to the mainstream. I'd agree if we were talking Doom 3D or Star Wars Battle Front with 3d graphics etc, but we aren't. We are talking about how various games, even simple games like Pull, could be improved just by adding more challenges, features, etc more commonly found in mainstream games. In fact, I can safely say a game like Pull could be written in something like visual Basic 6, DirectX 7, and built for Windows 95, a Pentium 133 processor, and 32 MB of ram, and still support all of the mainstream features I mentioned above. These kinds of things don't necessarily require huge changes in the game or state of the art hardware and software. The same kinds of changes could be suggested about a game like Sarah. Now, I'm a big fan of SCW, play it all the time, but there are things here and there I think would make the game just a bit better. One of those is rather than faking 3d movement by having Sarah flying on the broom by setting a flag it would be a bit more realistic to rewrite the game with full realistic 3d movement so Sarah can fly up/down, left/right, forward/backward on the broom in 3d space. The same holds for the pond/lake where Sarah should be able to swim up/down, left/right, forward/backward, but she can't. It would be nice to rewrite the map of Hogwarts so the rooms line up on top of each other rather than the basement being basically just another room or area of the same floor. The problem is that everything in Sarah is pancake flat and that's not at all realistic. It isn't something a mainstream developer would necessarily do given the same type of game. However, I'm well aware the GMA Engine doesn't really have the ability to do what I suggest, which is too bad, but all the same that's not really my point. Its just that we often get use to overlooking features and development standards often found in the mainstream game industry when creating a similar type of game, and I honestly feel that we are cutting ourselves short because of it. Cheers! On 7/31/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well tom its safe to say that most of us here are just starting. Most don't have your background. I sertainly don't. When I started the most complex game I knew was intergalactic battle a graphics/menu game. Yes compaired to mainstream we are probably not that attractive. The point is that we have been stagnating in emulated arcade. Its not a bad thing but if we need to move foreward we will have to bite the bullet and try to go mainstream etc. Which brings up an interesting thing. Unless you are sighted and know what stuff was then you won't know what to really do. I have never been sighted in my life. You can go left right up down run left and right and jump. I know that mainstream stuff goes so much more than that. But there are limits in sounds, the number of sounds, etc. Then there is the fact most of us don't have updated equipment. And even if we have its not the most up to date. Ie I have what would be quite an ancient second generation dulecore with no real hard drive or memmory requirements running on an extremely insecure os, and old ish hardware that won't go anywhere and being unable to run major things. We are limited at least for a while to the fact most people will still have 32 bit systems. I know for a fact a few still have single core systems. Some may still use dos 6 and win98 still. With acceptions with those with linux or apple mac systems Hmmm not sure. Basically we are stuck with simple for a while I think until we get 64 bit fully then we will be behind again. So before we move
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I was wondering how you were going to handle that so we wouldn't have to die every time lol. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 5:06 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Jeremy, Right. In that way we are thinking quite a lot alike. We each see things that could be improved, new types of games to add to the community, and all of it is to the good. I also like your idea of someone writing an article in the Audyssey Magazine covering various development aspects like game ideas, features, control features, level layouts, etc that have been successful and that worked out well for the game players at large. I myself am experimenting with such issues right now in Mysteries of the Ancients as some of the features I've added were not really tried in an audio only format before. One of those is an analog jump system. Which isn't really hard to add, but has been largely avoided until now. Of course, analog jumping has been present in every mainstream game from Montezuma's Revenge, to Donkey Kong, to Super Mario Brothers, right up to the present. The problem with that is though that since you have to time or gauge the length of a jump that sometimes requires a bit of site to see weather or not you need to do a short hop, a short jump, or a very big jump to overcome the trap ahead. One way I have dealt with this issue is by changing the pitch of the pits so you can hear if the pit is large or small. A large chasm will have a deeper wind sound than a smaller one. If a player comes upon a deep windy sounding pit sound he or she might consider giving Angela a run-up before jumping. If the chasm wind sound sounds higher he or she can try and perform a standing jump. It is actually pretty accessible, and I've found analog jumping can be just as accessible in an audio only format as in a video format. The only catch I think I've ran into in regards to analog jumping is the players themselves. Many of them are use to a fixed jump, IE a fixed length to jump, and often let up on the jump keys too quick or too late ending up in the fire, lava, spikes, etc. I think though that this issue can be solved with time and practice as its a slightly more advanced type of jump than they are use to and they need time and practice to get use to it. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: Thank you Thomas. It seems like we are on the same page here. Of course we are concentrating on different things, the common thread is that we are seeing the importance of pushing forward. You are hoping to push higher standards of development, I am trying to push for some different ideas that I haven't seen here, while I'm sure others are pushing for new interface ideas for existing game types. In the future we need all of these things, and more! We can't expect anyone to work on everything, but as long as we can get people pushing forward in their own unique way, it opens the door for the advancements to be combined. It is inevitable that future developers will use game ideas someone had to pioneer, develop them to a quality standard someone had to push to happen, and use far greater controls which someone took the time to envision. A person pushing advancements down any path, will eventually work its way into everything else. I wouldn't be qualified to handle this, but if anyone else feels up to it, I know what kind of articles I would be very interested in reading. Pick some style of game that is popular now, I'll use side scroller as an example. Write about the earlier games that used the style, pointing out how each improved the style and raised the bar for the next game. I would love to read about game ideas, control features, level layouts, and so forth that clearly worked well and then showed up in later games. Detailing how changes solved past problems, and bringing attention to what problems still seem to exist today, will help encourage people to theorize their own solutions to the problems. Just off of the top of my head, how pits or raised platforms are handled seems to be something of a current issue. People have tried different approaches in games, and I'm sure there Has! to have been a steady stream of advancement in this area. I'm sure the sidescroller developers have ideas for how to further improve them down the road also. This kind of stuff is very interesting to me, because it would shed light on a puzzle which has been passed from developer to developer. I might learn that my idea has been tried by someone, and I could read about how well or poorly it was received by the players. Hopefully it would breed discussion, and speed up the rate of new advancements. I'm just tossing ideas out there. It is always annoying when someone suggests that a job be done, but doesn't
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I see where you're shooting from. I certainly see how these additions make an extremely simple game into one that has a lot of challenge and replay value. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Charles and all, Yes and no. Certainly it helps to have a large team of developers, lots of money for bigger and better games, etc but that's not really what Darren and I are getting at all. It has more to do with specific features and standards that have already been set by mainstream games similar to the one in which you intend to create. Even simple games have standards already set by mainstream developers that should attempt to be met when and where possible. Here is a clear cut example of what I mean. For instance, I'm going to compare the game Pull to a mainstream game similar to it, and hopefully shed some constructive criticism how Pull could be better if just a few features were added that is common in mainstream arcade games. Now, I am fully aware it was the developers first release, the developer is totally new programmer, and so on but the fact still remains it has a ways to go to compare to a similar mainstream game. At the moment the closest thing that comes to mind is Duck Hunt for the classic NES. In Pull someone launches clay pigeons from the left, they pass in front of you, and you must load your shotgun and shoot them. In Duck Hunt Ducks will appear from the left or the right and pass in front of you, and you must shoot them down. As I said its a similar concept, but that's where the similarities begin and end as Duck Hunt is in many respects a more complex game. First, is the matter of difficulty or challenge. In Pull the speed of the pigeons doesn't seem to change from round to round so you can litterally keep shooting them and the game doesn't seem to get any harder. In Duck Hunt every round or level gets a bit faster making it harder and harder to shoot the ducks because the speed increases as you rack up the rounds. Second, is alternative directions. In Pull the pigeons always start from the left side and fly right. In Duck Hunt ducks can start from either the left or right, and it seems to be pretty random. So that can throw you off as you never know which side the target will be coming from. Third, is multiple targets. In Pull there only seems to be a maximum of one pigeon at a time. In Duck Hunt, depending on difficulty, you might have one, two, and sometimes three ducks on screen at once making it much more challenging to get them all before they fly off screen. Fourth, two-player mode. In Pull there is only a single player mode. In Duck Hunt, like most classic arcade games, it allowed you to set the game up for single-player or two-player mode so you and a friend could compete for the highest score. Finally, the ability to actually aim your gun. In Pull the shotgun is fixed dead center in the screen and won't allow you to move the gun around. In Duck Hunt there was a NES controller, a gun that plugged into the console, that allowed you to move the gun around on the screen, site ducks, and shoot them down. You weren't just fixed in one place. As I said all of these points are raised in the hopes that they will be taken as constructive criticism, and more over what I am suggesting here isn't all that difficult for a single developer to add. It is not necessarily comparing grapes to grapefruit, because I'm comparing two games that are similar enough to each other to share the same kinds of features, same type of game play, but don't have the same features or quality because the developer probably didn't think those features were necessary. Its simply that there are standards that have been set by companies like Nintendo, even for a simple game like Duck Hunt, and anything less than similar features and game play is below what I and many mainstream gamers would see as par for that type of game. Many of these improvements don't have to be particularly major, but it would help if the developer would do his or her best to meet some kind of mainstream standards like that when and where possible. The game doesn't have to be the next Shades of Doom or Mysteries of the Ancients to be mainstream quality. It just requires researching what similar games have and try to add those kinds of features to their own game if at all possible. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Then again, if you were working for a company that produces mainstream games, there would be a whole group of co-workers. In our community, there are not. There would be a huge budget from which to draw, and in our community, there is not. You would make a very good salary doing what you do, and in our community, you are not. To me, unless I'm
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
hmmm. Ron, I'd say just chuck the whole thing out here. However since the issue release seems to only be one every time you remember, or something, hmmm I don't know. Origionally I think there was like a 4 times a year schedual. But the mag comes out so infrequently now barely twice a year that I think it should be reduced. There is almost no need for the letters section or the emails sections as these are shoved on the list. There is almost no need for the mag apart from the articles sections. I am not even sure if the game relases are even needed since most of them when we get them are really old and outdated. Except for the few that may not have net access the jmajority of game releases letters and announcements appear on audiogames.net and this list. There are so many opensource and freeware companies now that there are to many to count. There are no more than 6 or so comercial companies that exist, and only 5 of those actually still exist, well maybe there is more 6 existing, within this group, most of them bar usagames and lworks are still realeasing stuff hmmm and xsight the rest have not released stuff in ages. I am not saying stop the mag or anything. Neither am I trying to bash you for not doing your job or anything but I strongly feel something needs to happen on that front. When the mag started there was no net, Even I read it. However after about 2005 or so loads of people went broadband there is now literally loads of things going on, disks and such are gone. Its the age of the cd, dvd and blueray disk as well as flash disk. Its also the age of the digital download. Development has slowed to barely a crawl. With most of the devs either out of business, sitting on their buts as far as the rest probably cares or working on their projects without putting out any news, and a few other things the major community as it stands comercially is quite dead and bare. Jim kitchen is the only person doing any real stuff and that has slowed its mostly been data updates. Spoonbill is doing something still. Both draconis, pcs and gma are aparently still in development but no real news as of yet. Xsight is in development and is active right now though nothing new has come out lately. Well not since january I think. Lworks is still active though with liam doing a job running slower than usual. Bavisoft is dead and code factory has shifted its focus away from pc games. Usagames is still in the running. Blastbay that was pb games has created bgt which has managed to keep us alive with opensource free projects. Audiogames.net and its forums have sporned loads and loads of small devs which have kept the game industry alive though no real big things have come out for a bit at least not enough to call the community fully alive. I am not sure what of the old system is still running. Presume dungions and draggons is still active though with the mag only twice a year stories are well taking one only good space in the mag. Most series like imortal gamer and game rescue unit are done which was the reason I really read the mag. So hmmm I really am not sure where to go from here. I do think something needs to be done with the mag though. I think well am sure that what we get on the mag is more up to date than the mag is now. We almost need something set so we can have something out more than twice a year, granted more than 1 person will need to edit it or release it in a timly manner. Then again, we have so much free stuff now that we will need to concerntrate on things. I guess if we start including links to forums and things on some of the free games like aprones stuff and such things like the mods etc that may be a new thing but The mag is deffinetly getting shorter. At 04:09 a.m. 31/07/2011, you wrote: Hi everyone I thought I would send this here to get feedback from this section of the list. This will also go out to the mag only group as well. Granted I know it has been quite some time without an issue. In order to catch up my thoughts were as follows. Send out issue #55 as it stands, then after sifting through the recovered emails send a supplement covering the released games since #54. The potential articles I'll keep until the next issue. I am curious about how often you folks are interested in the mag, true alot of the material shows up here to my chagrin. So how often would be good to wrap it up as an email newsletter? The folks on the mag only naturally haven't seen any of this conversation but I will send this to them as well. Yes I did drop the ball. For many reasons which I may or may not explain but I do sincerely want to keep Audyssey going. My inbox is open for any thoughts you may have. Comments and such are always welcome, #55 will be out tomorrow at the latest, and a further announcement of games once I go through all the recovered emails. Thanks to Damian for the program to do that. Looking forward to some input from folks. Take
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
on that note not that I want to detract from the mag or anything but we really need to branch into other formats like audio. Ofcause people could record things etc and I could probably put those together. I have time I'd need the place to put it up but i probably at least for the moment could put up stuff on a small schedual, at least semi reggularly. Ofcause this stuff if it got serious would either have to be donationware or subscription based or something as I would eventually have to buy a web site and domain which could be quite expensive. I know where I can get a good deal but at 160-200 a year to double that for a site and domain it does not come cheap. I experemented last month with a free site which didn't work well at all but I am confordent I could have a small wordpress site, and a downloads folder with no restrictions where people could grab things, Ofcause I have dropbox to. Still would have to think on what I would have to do about that. It may for example be cheaper to get a free webhost like 000webhost and upgrade my dropbox, but then use some external drives to host the files rather than the main drive or something. maybe get a sepperate system to handle things with a seperate dropbox if I could do that. At 07:53 a.m. 31/07/2011, you wrote: Hi Ron, That sounds fair in terms of catching the community up on past news for the magazine, but I do have some concerns. For instance, I am pretty sure I sent you some kind of press releases for MOTA. I would hate to see you send out an announcement for say beta 17 when I'm about to release beta 21 on Monday. I'm away from home today, but I have plans to finish work on beta 21 this weekend so if there are any past announcements for MOTA I'd prefer to pull them from the mag. HTH On 7/30/11, Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca wrote: Hi everyone I thought I would send this here to get feedback from this section of the list. This will also go out to the mag only group as well. Granted I know it has been quite some time without an issue. In order to catch up my thoughts were as follows. Send out issue #55 as it stands, then after sifting through the recovered emails send a supplement covering the released games since #54. The potential articles I'll keep until the next issue. I am curious about how often you folks are interested in the mag, true alot of the material shows up here to my chagrin. So how often would be good to wrap it up as an email newsletter? The folks on the mag only naturally haven't seen any of this conversation but I will send this to them as well. Yes I did drop the ball. For many reasons which I may or may not explain but I do sincerely want to keep Audyssey going. My inbox is open for any thoughts you may have. Comments and such are always welcome, #55 will be out tomorrow at the latest, and a further announcement of games once I go through all the recovered emails. Thanks to Damian for the program to do that. Looking forward to some input from folks. Take care Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca Audyssey Editor --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
well if you need any extra assistance I'll always be avalible to assist the community even if I get a job. THe net is where I wind down and spend most of my life. At 09:14 a.m. 31/07/2011, you wrote: Hi Dark I encourage everyone to write about some aspect of gaming. Maybe a review of their favourite game, the best gamepad, what they like in ambiance or whatever. I don't think I've ever missed publishing something that has been sent to me. I'm now of renewed spirit, ready to get it done, and keep it going for along time. Thanks for the vote Ron - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron. i'm pleased the mag is back. while it's true the announcements in the mag really are duplicated on list or on audiogames.net (though obviously there ar people who do not check those places), for me it's the articals, reviews and editorials that are the interesting point. Having a more formal setting and distribution means that people are more inclined to write seriously and considder what they are writing than just dashing off a quick response. for this reason i'm very happy that the mag is back, and would certainly like it to continue coming out once every few months, though i might suggest that perhaps submissions be a litle more formal and you give us reminders when your looking for stuff, sinse obviously publishing in the mag is something which should be considdered. this is what spag and other web zeense have done, concentrated on more formal submission of materials, and become more like a professional printed magazine. Btw, formal does not equal boring, comedy stuff and funny materials are deffinately good too, I just mean encouraging people to take the time to write and think carefully, including better jokes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
This is really cool news. However my issue is I never know when its going to come out or what is up. There used to be a schedual and everyone knew when it was going to come out. We never missed a release date and where we were going to we were always notified. At 09:38 a.m. 31/07/2011, you wrote: This is fantastic news! I've really missed the magazine. I'll be writing for it again I used to enjoy the stuff I would produce a few years ago. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 30 July 2011 22:26 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron. well if that is the case, please let me know if your looking for articals, as obviously i would be interested in trying another myself, but also I can stick something on the audiogames.net site to the affect that anyone wanting to write a review or artical can send it to you for publication. there has been some discussion about a review section for the site and some people wanting to write reviews, so if your publishing the mag again and including reviews there may well be some other people who'd like to contribute. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Shaun, I think you are being overly pessimisticwhen it comes to your personal views of the audio games community. Weather you realize it or not there is quite a lot more going on than you have given credit for, and I'd like to take this time to give some credit where credit is do and perhaps give you a more positive outlook on the community in general. Shaun wrote: However since the issue release seems to only be one every time you remember, or something, hmmm I don't know. My reply: I think that's a little unfair. Ron has had a number of personal issues to deal with, some he is willing to discuss and some he is not, but as with game development its all pretty much done on a voluntary basis, and I think you can give the guy a break for putting the magazine off until he was mentally, emotionally, and physically up to taking on the magazine again. If he can now dedicate himself to a quarterly release schedule that's great. If not we should be understanding enough to see that he is only one person and is doing this voluntarily on his own time and energy. Shaun wrote: There is almost no need for the letters section or the emails sections as these are shoved on the list. My reply: Not everyone is on the Audyssey list. Many are over on the audiogames.net forum, not on this list, and there are likely some people who aren't on either the forum or list who receive the magazine. The letters/e-mails section is a great way for them to keep up to speed with events without having to sub to the list or forum. Shaun wrote: There are so many opensource and freeware companies now that there are to many to count. My reply: You make that sound like a bad thing, and it certainly is not. From my perspective this makes the magazine all the more worth while as it gives new freeware and open source developers another outlet to talk about their games, announce their existence, and something we all can read regardless of what list or forums we may be on. While I might agree that someone's new Guess the Number game might not be particularly news or magazine worthy there have been a number of free games that should be mentioned in the magazine. Jeremy has released a surprising number of decent freeware games like Castaways that certainly deserves mention in the magazine, and its possible there are plenty of VI gamers who haven't tried Jeremy's games simply because they are so new and perhaps just haven't heard the news. Shaun wrote: Development has slowed to barely a crawl. With most of the devs either out of business, sitting on their buts as far as the rest probably cares or working on their projects without putting out any news, and a few other things the major community as it stands comercially is quite dead and bare. My reply: I really think that is pretty unfair. Blind Adrenaline is continuing to add games to the card room, and Che has become a leading commercial developer because of it. Blastbay Studios, AKA Philip Bennefall, has released a number of commercial and freeware products in a row including BGT, Q9, Kryngle Crash, Palace Punch-Up, and is working on a new commercial game as we speak. GMA released Time of Conflict last year. BPC Programs released 3D Velocity in this past year as well. Mysteries of the Ancients, my current commercial project, is scheduled for release this fall. My point being that far from dead commercial audio game developers have picked up production rather than slowed down as you seem to suggest above. Shaun wrote: Jim kitchen is the only person doing any real stuff and that has slowed its mostly been data updates. My reply: Even if that were true there is nothing wrong with updates and upgrades. However, Jim Kitchen has released Awesome Homer as well as TJS in the past year in addition to those data updates you mentioned. That's not bad for a single developer. However, Jim isn't the only one doing stuff. Good grief, man, Jeremy has released several games in the last year, and it would make sense to give the guy a little bit of credit where credit is do. He has actually been giving the audio games community more games to play around with in the last few months than we have seen in years. So saying boo who the audio games community is dead is far from the truth. Shaun wrote: Both draconis, pcs and gma are aparently still in development but no real news as of yet. My reply: Just because you don't get a news letter mailed to your inbox each month doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. GMA consistantly releases a new game on a 24 month schedule, and months usually do go by before we hear about the latest and greatest products from GMA. Draconis is being pretty tight mouthed about what they are doing, but its understandable. If they say they are working on game x the next thing the community will do is ask, and ask, and ask over and over again when will game x be released. Developers simply do not want that kind of pressure. As for PCS no we haven't seen the new update
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Shaun, Well, with all do respect if we went to audio instead of a webzine then in effect what we would have is a podcast. While I agree an Audyssey podcast would be cool their are already technology podcasts like this available such as those on Blind Cool tech. I don't think we should confuse the magazine with a different format like a podcast as we could certainly have both if that were something the community would be interested in. cheers! On 7/31/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: on that note not that I want to detract from the mag or anything but we really need to branch into other formats like audio. Ofcause people could record things etc and I could probably put those together. I have time I'd need the place to put it up but i probably at least for the moment could put up stuff on a small schedual, at least semi reggularly. Ofcause this stuff if it got serious would either have to be donationware or subscription based or something as I would eventually have to buy a web site and domain which could be quite expensive. I know where I can get a good deal but at 160-200 a year to double that for a site and domain it does not come cheap. I experemented last month with a free site which didn't work well at all but I am confordent I could have a small wordpress site, and a downloads folder with no restrictions where people could grab things, Ofcause I have dropbox to. Still would have to think on what I would have to do about that. It may for example be cheaper to get a free webhost like 000webhost and upgrade my dropbox, but then use some external drives to host the files rather than the main drive or something. maybe get a sepperate system to handle things with a seperate dropbox if I could do that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails you would be swamped so for practical reasons it's best to assume that there are far more members on audiogames.net. so having the Magazine and various ways of distribution is and can only be a good thing. I would say though however that the content does need to be more streamlined. With the recent discussions on getting this community viewed more favourably by a mainstream community, we aren't going to do it with numbers games and Simon says type games. We have so many of those that quite honestly we don't need any more and to be blunt the Magazine doesn't need it either. It's poor representation. Am not trying to offend anybody, far from it but equally it has to be said that things do need to change with regards to what is brought out by some. Having said that I think the Magazine does offer much more positive things than negative on the whole. It just depends on what content is included. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Indeed doing a mag and a podcast would be an option. As for the format I'd have to give that some thought about articles, announcements and reviews. Though It would offer an opportunity to demo as well as announce new games. It's worth considering if there is enough interest. Ron - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Shaun, Well, with all do respect if we went to audio instead of a webzine then in effect what we would have is a podcast. While I agree an Audyssey podcast would be cool their are already technology podcasts like this available such as those on Blind Cool tech. I don't think we should confuse the magazine with a different format like a podcast as we could certainly have both if that were something the community would be interested in. cheers! On 7/31/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: on that note not that I want to detract from the mag or anything but we really need to branch into other formats like audio. Ofcause people could record things etc and I could probably put those together. I have time I'd need the place to put it up but i probably at least for the moment could put up stuff on a small schedual, at least semi reggularly. Ofcause this stuff if it got serious would either have to be donationware or subscription based or something as I would eventually have to buy a web site and domain which could be quite expensive. I know where I can get a good deal but at 160-200 a year to double that for a site and domain it does not come cheap. I experemented last month with a free site which didn't work well at all but I am confordent I could have a small wordpress site, and a downloads folder with no restrictions where people could grab things, Ofcause I have dropbox to. Still would have to think on what I would have to do about that. It may for example be cheaper to get a free webhost like 000webhost and upgrade my dropbox, but then use some external drives to host the files rather than the main drive or something. maybe get a sepperate system to handle things with a seperate dropbox if I could do that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Tom Thanks for understanding about how one's life can interupt the best of intentions. It has most likely happened to everyone at some time or other. There indeed were and in some respects still are alot going on in life outside of the gaming community. I'm not offering this as an excuse but to explain. My parents now live across the hall from me in my apartment building, I'm not kidding I'm 303 they are at 304. Between my mother and nephew in the last year they've been hospitalized about 10 times in the last year for various reasons. My divorce and the way it went down didn't help in me feeling good about life at all. I could go on but want to reply to other comments. Indeed there's the magazine only list [I hope Raul soon responds] which only get the issues. These folks may or may not be at audiogames. So this could be the only method of them keeping up with what's going on. I'll put any developers in an issue. Any game they've put out is worthy of mention. Granted it might be hangman but for dev x it's their first release. I'd hope to encourage the effort rather then ignore it thinking oh crap it's been done already. The number of releases has indeed kept up. Besides those you mention there's 15 or so freeware games that Spoonbill has released, Kitchens Inc, and probably others that aren't coming to mind. True big products like Entombed, MOTA, and such the community almost expects something big, but let's not forget those devs who consistently bring us a game in the wait time. Agreed on the point of Castaways. I mean no offense to Jeremy with the following. It's spouted loads of conversation on this list, and I'd imagine the audiogames forum. While I'm not a typical forum reader [truth be told it confuses me] he's done many games with inovative concepts and the games are free how cool is that! Not meaning to repeat myself hear but quite right. Audyssey when it started PCS and Kitchen's Inc were the main players with alot of IF thrown in as that was all there was for the blind/vi community. I feel we've covered more ground in those years then the 'normal' community. Think about it, console/pc gaming has been out for 30 or so years. Audio gaming has had aproximatley half of that lifespan. But look where we were and where we are now. It's loads of progress in a much shorter time. Personally I am thrilled to be part of this rapidly expanding group. We've really heard *coughs* what can be done with sound in games. So here's to the future! Ron - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Shaun, I think you are being overly pessimisticwhen it comes to your personal views of the audio games community. Weather you realize it or not there is quite a lot more going on than you have given credit for, and I'd like to take this time to give some credit where credit is do and perhaps give you a more positive outlook on the community in general. Shaun wrote: However since the issue release seems to only be one every time you remember, or something, hmmm I don't know. My reply: I think that's a little unfair. Ron has had a number of personal issues to deal with, some he is willing to discuss and some he is not, but as with game development its all pretty much done on a voluntary basis, and I think you can give the guy a break for putting the magazine off until he was mentally, emotionally, and physically up to taking on the magazine again. If he can now dedicate himself to a quarterly release schedule that's great. If not we should be understanding enough to see that he is only one person and is doing this voluntarily on his own time and energy. Shaun wrote: There is almost no need for the letters section or the emails sections as these are shoved on the list. My reply: Not everyone is on the Audyssey list. Many are over on the audiogames.net forum, not on this list, and there are likely some people who aren't on either the forum or list who receive the magazine. The letters/e-mails section is a great way for them to keep up to speed with events without having to sub to the list or forum. Shaun wrote: There are so many opensource and freeware companies now that there are to many to count. My reply: You make that sound like a bad thing, and it certainly is not. From my perspective this makes the magazine all the more worth while as it gives new freeware and open source developers another outlet to talk about their games, announce their existence, and something we all can read regardless of what list or forums we may be on. While I might agree that someone's new Guess the Number game might not be particularly news or magazine worthy there have been a number of free games that should be mentioned in the magazine. Jeremy has released a surprising number of decent freeware games
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Darren, I do agree that the magazine could be streamlined by cutting out and removing certain content that isn't up to par so to speak. Announcing every simple freeware or amateur game might not be in our best interests if we are hoping mainstream developers and gamers into our ranks. Games like Guess the Numberor BopIt arent' that news worthy, and I frankly feel that they probably shouldn't get much public attention from the magazine. I do think that we should be more professional about how we handle the magazine and take our queue from professional gaming magazines. This isn't being intended to be a put down, but mainstream magazines generally don't publish news and articles on every single practice or ametur game like Fred's Guess the Number out there. They tend to publish articles and news based on established developers who have reached a certain degree of quality and would be of interest to their readers. If that sounds elitest so be it, but it doesn't hurt to think about if the game being discussed would be of any real value to the community at large rather than just filling space. Let's be fair here. I know exactly how difficult it is to learn to program, how much time, skill, and energy goes into programming games. Every single developer starts with something extremely simple like Blackjack, Guess the Number, or Paper Scissors Rock because they require very little programming skill and experience to create. Every developer starts with such simple games and slowly but surely create more and more complex practice games until they are able to create the next Shades of Doom or tank Commander. While there is nothing wrong with helping a amateur developer with improving his/her Guess the Number or Paper Scissors Rock game they are still only practice amateur games. Such amateur developers should probably hold off releasing anything official until they have released a product that meets a reasonable standard of quality. Of course, what I would consider a reasonable standard and what someone might consider a reasonable standard could be quite different. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails you would be swamped so for practical reasons it's best to assume that there are far more members on audiogames.net. so having the Magazine and various ways of distribution is and can only be a good thing. I would say though however that the content does need to be more streamlined. With the recent discussions on getting this community viewed more favourably by a mainstream community, we aren't going to do it with numbers games and Simon says type games. We have so many of those that quite honestly we don't need any more and to be blunt the Magazine doesn't need it either. It's poor representation. Am not trying to offend anybody, far from it but equally it has to be said that things do need to change with regards to what is brought out by some. Having said that I think the Magazine does offer much more positive things than negative on the whole. It just depends on what content is included. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Ron, Definitely. While I have my doubts about including every Hangman game that comes along that's just my personal opinion. Over all, though, I am pretty sure the audio games community at large is growing, improving, and things are only getting better. Sooner or later those people who purchased and are learning BGT will stop developing what I would call amateur practice games and be able to produce something of a higher quality. Its just a matter of giving them enough time to learn and grow is all. So in that sense encurraging them to continue is a very good idea. The idea that the audio games community is dead or is dying is pretty rediculous in light of where we have been and where we are going. Yeah, Code Factory has come and gone, Bavisoft up and left the community, ESP was sold to Draconis, XL Studeos closed, etc but those are only inconveniences. In the time since all those things happened I have started USA Games, Che has started Blind Adrenaline, Jeremy has started producing games, and we have a fairly active community of amateur open source developers trying out BGT, Python, VB, etc. In short, what we have gained is far greater than what we have lost. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca wrote: Hi Tom Thanks for understanding about how one's life can interupt the best of intentions. It has most likely happened to everyone at some time or other. There indeed were and in some respects still are alot going on in life outside of the gaming community. I'm not offering this as an excuse but to explain. My parents now live across the hall from me in my apartment building, I'm not kidding I'm 303 they are at 304. Between my mother and nephew in the last year they've been hospitalized about 10 times in the last year for various reasons. My divorce and the way it went down didn't help in me feeling good about life at all. I could go on but want to reply to other comments. Indeed there's the magazine only list [I hope Raul soon responds] which only get the issues. These folks may or may not be at audiogames. So this could be the only method of them keeping up with what's going on. I'll put any developers in an issue. Any game they've put out is worthy of mention. Granted it might be hangman but for dev x it's their first release. I'd hope to encourage the effort rather then ignore it thinking oh crap it's been done already. The number of releases has indeed kept up. Besides those you mention there's 15 or so freeware games that Spoonbill has released, Kitchens Inc, and probably others that aren't coming to mind. True big products like Entombed, MOTA, and such the community almost expects something big, but let's not forget those devs who consistently bring us a game in the wait time. Agreed on the point of Castaways. I mean no offense to Jeremy with the following. It's spouted loads of conversation on this list, and I'd imagine the audiogames forum. While I'm not a typical forum reader [truth be told it confuses me] he's done many games with inovative concepts and the games are free how cool is that! Not meaning to repeat myself hear but quite right. Audyssey when it started PCS and Kitchen's Inc were the main players with alot of IF thrown in as that was all there was for the blind/vi community. I feel we've covered more ground in those years then the 'normal' community. Think about it, console/pc gaming has been out for 30 or so years. Audio gaming has had aproximatley half of that lifespan. But look where we were and where we are now. It's loads of progress in a much shorter time. Personally I am thrilled to be part of this rapidly expanding group. We've really heard *coughs* what can be done with sound in games. So here's to the future! Ron --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi tom, I agree actually. I think part of the problem here is that when everybody comes across a new game release, whatever it is, everybody swoops on it. that's not really the right way to be to be honest with you. Boppit whilst it can be fun to an extent really it's a kids game and to be honest I would shudder to put that out in the Magazine. it has to be said, I look at some of the writing on this list and other places with regards to games, I see topics such as this and I cringe thinking good god what if mainstream people see this? Don't get me wrong, we all have the right to enjoy what we wish and to talk about it but there is and can be a very obvious trade-off as a result. I think serious consideration needs to be given as to what is and what isn't deemed appropriate material for wide distribution of the Magazine. that's not to say we need to say no x rated games can be mentioned or games containing violence or such things, it's more about quality control. There's nothing wrong for example in mentioning there's a new developer coming in and learning what to do and all that. equally there's nothing wrong with a question and answer section to the Magazine for example, when said developers can indeed get the opportunity to ask various questions and answers can be sent to them personally or sent to the Magazine for inclusion in future issues. Indeed it would be nice to see answers to questions and people who aren't interested in that section can pass up on it and move on to something else that takes their interest. But yes, I do think some quality control is necessary. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 31 July 2011 14:23 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Darren, I do agree that the magazine could be streamlined by cutting out and removing certain content that isn't up to par so to speak. Announcing every simple freeware or amateur game might not be in our best interests if we are hoping mainstream developers and gamers into our ranks. Games like Guess the Number or BopIt aren't' that news worthy, and I frankly feel that they probably shouldn't get much public attention from the magazine. I do think that we should be more professional about how we handle the magazine and take our queue from professional gaming magazines. This isn't being intended to be a put down, but mainstream magazines generally don't publish news and articles on every single practice or amateur game like Fred's Guess the Number out there. They tend to publish articles and news based on established developers who have reached a certain degree of quality and would be of interest to their readers. If that sounds elitest so be it, but it doesn't hurt to think about if the game being discussed would be of any real value to the community at large rather than just filling space. Let's be fair here. I know exactly how difficult it is to learn to program, how much time, skill, and energy goes into programming games. Every single developer starts with something extremely simple like Blackjack, Guess the Number, or Paper Scissors Rock because they require very little programming skill and experience to create. Every developer starts with such simple games and slowly but surely create more and more complex practice games until they are able to create the next Shades of Doom or tank Commander. While there is nothing wrong with helping a amateur developer with improving his/her Guess the Number or Paper Scissors Rock game they are still only practice amateur games. Such amateur developers should probably hold off releasing anything official until they have released a product that meets a reasonable standard of quality. Of course, what I would consider a reasonable standard and what someone might consider a reasonable standard could be quite different. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Clearly I'm the new guy around here, so I frequently ask dumb questions, surprise everyone by not knowing common things, and fail miserably while playing most audio games, Hahaha. In one way, this is a good thing since I am still able to see things in this community from the perspective of an outsider. As a new guy coming in, I was very excited to go and read the back issues of the magazine when I first heard about them. I wasn't actually all that long ago either. The old magazines were quite old, but I still enjoyed the articles. Game reviews were interesting, but by far, the most interesting things were the articles that gave insight to the community, what it had been doing, and where it was planning to go. Perhaps this was only so interesting because I was viewing past issues, and I could compare those goals with how things really turned out, but I still believe I would be just as interested in those types of articles today. Some have suggested that the magazine should keep in mind, the possibility that mainstream gamers will read it, and so it should paint the community in the best possible light. I agree, that is something we should consider, but I have to ask the question, what is do we hope to gain by mainstream readers that we impress with the magazine? If our concern is audiogames being taken seriously, then we could accomplish that by including only the more unique games, as has been suggested. I have a feeling that we need to broaden that goal. I would suggest that a secondary goal is to attract people TO! the community, that would be able to help it continue to push forward. The articles are the best way to do that. By getting insight into the community, where it was, how it has changed, what it hopes to accomplish, and what efforts are currently trying to move us forward, it encourages people to theorize their own solutions. As an example, my buddy Hatred recently joined up with the community. Through conversations, he gradually learned the current state of the community, and where it wanted to go, and eventually he started sharing ideas with me for helping it get there. Stuff that would pop into his mind simply because there was a problem to solve, and he is the type of person who enjoys looking for solutions. Like myself, he became excited by the challenge of moving the community's games in some new directions, and now he is actively developing his first audio game. Lol, Hatred is going to kill me for pulling him into this post. :) Anyway, the point I was aiming to make is that openly discussing where we want to go, and how we are trying to get there, is a great way to attract new problem solvers. If the magazine reaches the right kind of people, who get excited about what is going on here in this community, it could lead to more good things. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Darren, Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, even discussing this I'm afraid could kick off another flame war since people are likely to be sensative when it comes to discussing what is or isn't reasonable quality control. It is true anyone has the right to create and play anything they want, but, in my personal opinion, not every game meets a certain mainstream standard of quality and development. This is somewhat of a catch 22 situation since 99% of the developers here are self-taught, figuring things out as they go, and many don't have a real extensive knowledge of mainstream games to begin with. In short, they lack knowledge and experience that someone exposed to normal mainstream standards would expect of them. So if we hold up something like Shades of Doom as a type of goal or standard we should aim for then a lot of developers are going to come back with that's too hard orthat's unrealistically high even though that's exactly the kind of standard for mainstreamgames and gamers that we haven't reached yet. We are in some respects still trying to get there, and some developers are far too quick to publish something simple like BopIt instead of waiting to officially release something like Q9, Tank Commander, or Shades of Doom. If we wait for those developers to walk before they can run then of course we would have a lot of waiting to do. So its a catch 22 situation to either accept x number of simple games until they can produce something better, or not hear from them at all until they produce something better. I'm afraid I don't have an answer or solution for that issue myself. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, I agree actually. I think part of the problem here is that when everybody comes across a new game release, whatever it is, everybody swoops on it. that's not really the right way to be to be honest with you. Boppit whilst it can be fun to an extent really it's a kids game and to be honest I would shudder to put that out in the Magazine. it has to be said, I look at some of the writing on this list and other places with regards to games, I see topics such as this and I cringe thinking good god what if mainstream people see this? Don't get me wrong, we all have the right to enjoy what we wish and to talk about it but there is and can be a very obvious trade-off as a result. I think serious consideration needs to be given as to what is and what isn't deemed appropriate material for wide distribution of the Magazine. that's not to say we need to say no x rated games can be mentioned or games containing violence or such things, it's more about quality control. There's nothing wrong for example in mentioning there's a new developer coming in and learning what to do and all that. equally there's nothing wrong with a question and answer section to the Magazine for example, when said developers can indeed get the opportunity to ask various questions and answers can be sent to them personally or sent to the Magazine for inclusion in future issues. Indeed it would be nice to see answers to questions and people who aren't interested in that section can pass up on it and move on to something else that takes their interest. But yes, I do think some quality control is necessary. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Jeremy, Those are some very good points. In many ways when I joined the audio games community I had similar observations and I guess ideas where the community could go. That was about 10 or 11 years ago. I was sighted for the majority of my early life, lost my sight officially in the 90's, so I had a pretty good idea of what had been available for the sighted mainstream market at the time. When i started reading the mag so I could find out what games I could play or expect to create I saw that most people were playing text adventures or simple Dos games like Monopoly, Hangman, and things of that nature. The only developer who captured my immediate attention was GMA because they had a real time submarine simulation, Lone Wolf, and they were creating the world's first audio based first person shooter, Shades of Doom. Coming from a mainstream background as I had those were the games I naturally were most interested in because it wasn't so different from games I already knew and enjoyed before I lost my sight. In other words if we want to communicate and open dialog with other mainstream gamers its something like Shades of Doom or Tank Commander they will be interested in discussing. Anything less will seem to them as not very advanced or worth while. At least that's how I see it coming from that background myself. It is because of that background I have the opinions and attitudes I do have towards audio gaming. There is a reason I spent two years developing a 3d game engine I call Genesis 3D, and there is a reason I've adopted a number of features seen in the GMA Game engine. That reason being over the next five years or so I plan to create games on par with Halo, Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, and any other game that has had some commercial success in the mainstream market. Not necessarily because it will make a lot of money but because it is a style and standard of gaming that is rarely achieved by audio game developers accept for a handful like GMA who are trying to reach the same goal as I am. What you are doing for this community is no less valuable. Castaways is the best game I've seen since I don't know when. True it needs some better sound effects and things like that, but as Dark said it is the closest thing to Dwarf Fortress and games like that we have at the time being. It is getting us headed in the right direction as far as I am concerned and I'm all forward to bigger and more complex games of this nature. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: Clearly I'm the new guy around here, so I frequently ask dumb questions, surprise everyone by not knowing common things, and fail miserably while playing most audio games, Hahaha. In one way, this is a good thing since I am still able to see things in this community from the perspective of an outsider. As a new guy coming in, I was very excited to go and read the back issues of the magazine when I first heard about them. I wasn't actually all that long ago either. The old magazines were quite old, but I still enjoyed the articles. Game reviews were interesting, but by far, the most interesting things were the articles that gave insight to the community, what it had been doing, and where it was planning to go. Perhaps this was only so interesting because I was viewing past issues, and I could compare those goals with how things really turned out, but I still believe I would be just as interested in those types of articles today. Some have suggested that the magazine should keep in mind, the possibility that mainstream gamers will read it, and so it should paint the community in the best possible light. I agree, that is something we should consider, but I have to ask the question, what is do we hope to gain by mainstream readers that we impress with the magazine? If our concern is audiogames being taken seriously, then we could accomplish that by including only the more unique games, as has been suggested. I have a feeling that we need to broaden that goal. I would suggest that a secondary goal is to attract people TO! the community, that would be able to help it continue to push forward. The articles are the best way to do that. By getting insight into the community, where it was, how it has changed, what it hopes to accomplish, and what efforts are currently trying to move us forward, it encourages people to theorize their own solutions. As an example, my buddy Hatred recently joined up with the community. Through conversations, he gradually learned the current state of the community, and where it wanted to go, and eventually he started sharing ideas with me for helping it get there. Stuff that would pop into his mind simply because there was a problem to solve, and he is the type of person who enjoys looking for solutions. Like myself, he became excited by the challenge of moving the community's games in some new directions, and now he is actively developing his first
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Thank you Thomas. It seems like we are on the same page here. Of course we are concentrating on different things, the common thread is that we are seeing the importance of pushing forward. You are hoping to push higher standards of development, I am trying to push for some different ideas that I haven't seen here, while I'm sure others are pushing for new interface ideas for existing game types. In the future we need all of these things, and more! We can't expect anyone to work on everything, but as long as we can get people pushing forward in their own unique way, it opens the door for the advancements to be combined. It is inevitable that future developers will use game ideas someone had to pioneer, develop them to a quality standard someone had to push to happen, and use far greater controls which someone took the time to envision. A person pushing advancements down any path, will eventually work its way into everything else. I wouldn't be qualified to handle this, but if anyone else feels up to it, I know what kind of articles I would be very interested in reading. Pick some style of game that is popular now, I'll use side scroller as an example. Write about the earlier games that used the style, pointing out how each improved the style and raised the bar for the next game. I would love to read about game ideas, control features, level layouts, and so forth that clearly worked well and then showed up in later games. Detailing how changes solved past problems, and bringing attention to what problems still seem to exist today, will help encourage people to theorize their own solutions to the problems. Just off of the top of my head, how pits or raised platforms are handled seems to be something of a current issue. People have tried different approaches in games, and I'm sure there Has! to have been a steady stream of advancement in this area. I'm sure the sidescroller developers have ideas for how to further improve them down the road also. This kind of stuff is very interesting to me, because it would shed light on a puzzle which has been passed from developer to developer. I might learn that my idea has been tried by someone, and I could read about how well or poorly it was received by the players. Hopefully it would breed discussion, and speed up the rate of new advancements. I'm just tossing ideas out there. It is always annoying when someone suggests that a job be done, but doesn't volunteer to do it himself, lol! For that, I apologize everyone! :) Hi Jeremy, Those are some very good points. In many ways when I joined the audio games community I had similar observations and I guess ideas where the community could go. That was about 10 or 11 years ago. I was sighted for the majority of my early life, lost my sight officially in the 90's, so I had a pretty good idea of what had been available for the sighted mainstream market at the time. When i started reading the mag so I could find out what games I could play or expect to create I saw that most people were playing text adventures or simple Dos games like Monopoly, Hangman, and things of that nature. The only developer who captured my immediate attention was GMA because they had a real time submarine simulation, Lone Wolf, and they were creating the world's first audio based first person shooter, Shades of Doom. Coming from a mainstream background as I had those were the games I naturally were most interested in because it wasn't so different from games I already knew and enjoyed before I lost my sight. In other words if we want to communicate and open dialog with other mainstream gamers its something like Shades of Doom or Tank Commander they will be interested in discussing. Anything less will seem to them as not very advanced or worth while. At least that's how I see it coming from that background myself. It is because of that background I have the opinions and attitudes I do have towards audio gaming. There is a reason I spent two years developing a 3d game engine I call Genesis 3D, and there is a reason I've adopted a number of features seen in the GMA Game engine. That reason being over the next five years or so I plan to create games on par with Halo, Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, and any other game that has had some commercial success in the mainstream market. Not necessarily because it will make a lot of money but because it is a style and standard of gaming that is rarely achieved by audio game developers accept for a handful like GMA who are trying to reach the same goal as I am. What you are doing for this community is no less valuable. Castaways is the best game I've seen since I don't know when. True it needs some better sound effects and things like that, but as Dark said it is the closest thing to Dwarf Fortress and games like that we have at the time being. It is getting us headed in the right direction
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi tom. I aggree with you on all accounts. Ok so I am a bit unfair. Ok yeah when I wrote that post I realise I may have left some out. Ok so maybe I am not as clued up as most. Opensource is not a bad thing, but there are so many companies on the forum that who to list is a thing. I guess my view has been from someone who is essentually on the outside looking in. Yes its true I own a few comercial games. I also have a lot of free games and I haveaccess to other misc games. Its safe to say though that my view is from the soude though. Although I do play games its not a major part of my life anymore. It used to be but now I struggle to find time to even play stuff anymore though I do keep up to date. Its true that I don't read every forum thread though. At 12:02 a.m. 1/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Shaun, I think you are being overly pessimisticwhen it comes to your personal views of the audio games community. Weather you realize it or not there is quite a lot more going on than you have given credit for, and I'd like to take this time to give some credit where credit is do and perhaps give you a more positive outlook on the community in general. Shaun wrote: However since the issue release seems to only be one every time you remember, or something, hmmm I don't know. My reply: I think that's a little unfair. Ron has had a number of personal issues to deal with, some he is willing to discuss and some he is not, but as with game development its all pretty much done on a voluntary basis, and I think you can give the guy a break for putting the magazine off until he was mentally, emotionally, and physically up to taking on the magazine again. If he can now dedicate himself to a quarterly release schedule that's great. If not we should be understanding enough to see that he is only one person and is doing this voluntarily on his own time and energy. Shaun wrote: There is almost no need for the letters section or the emails sections as these are shoved on the list. My reply: Not everyone is on the Audyssey list. Many are over on the audiogames.net forum, not on this list, and there are likely some people who aren't on either the forum or list who receive the magazine. The letters/e-mails section is a great way for them to keep up to speed with events without having to sub to the list or forum. Shaun wrote: There are so many opensource and freeware companies now that there are to many to count. My reply: You make that sound like a bad thing, and it certainly is not. From my perspective this makes the magazine all the more worth while as it gives new freeware and open source developers another outlet to talk about their games, announce their existence, and something we all can read regardless of what list or forums we may be on. While I might agree that someone's new Guess the Number game might not be particularly news or magazine worthy there have been a number of free games that should be mentioned in the magazine. Jeremy has released a surprising number of decent freeware games like Castaways that certainly deserves mention in the magazine, and its possible there are plenty of VI gamers who haven't tried Jeremy's games simply because they are so new and perhaps just haven't heard the news. Shaun wrote: Development has slowed to barely a crawl. With most of the devs either out of business, sitting on their buts as far as the rest probably cares or working on their projects without putting out any news, and a few other things the major community as it stands comercially is quite dead and bare. My reply: I really think that is pretty unfair. Blind Adrenaline is continuing to add games to the card room, and Che has become a leading commercial developer because of it. Blastbay Studios, AKA Philip Bennefall, has released a number of commercial and freeware products in a row including BGT, Q9, Kryngle Crash, Palace Punch-Up, and is working on a new commercial game as we speak. GMA released Time of Conflict last year. BPC Programs released 3D Velocity in this past year as well. Mysteries of the Ancients, my current commercial project, is scheduled for release this fall. My point being that far from dead commercial audio game developers have picked up production rather than slowed down as you seem to suggest above. Shaun wrote: Jim kitchen is the only person doing any real stuff and that has slowed its mostly been data updates. My reply: Even if that were true there is nothing wrong with updates and upgrades. However, Jim Kitchen has released Awesome Homer as well as TJS in the past year in addition to those data updates you mentioned. That's not bad for a single developer. However, Jim isn't the only one doing stuff. Good grief, man, Jeremy has released several games in the last year, and it would make sense to give the guy a little bit of credit where credit is do. He has actually been giving the audio games community more games to play around with in the last few months than we have seen in
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I was not thinking of a full switchover to audio. The text is still a good idea. There are loads with dialup that I Know still and text is still good for some stuff. I just thought it would make the mag more interactive if bits were audio. Ie we could hear voices of devs and contributers a like. At 12:11 a.m. 1/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Well, with all do respect if we went to audio instead of a webzine then in effect what we would have is a podcast. While I agree an Audyssey podcast would be cool their are already technology podcasts like this available such as those on Blind Cool tech. I don't think we should confuse the magazine with a different format like a podcast as we could certainly have both if that were something the community would be interested in. cheers! On 7/31/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: on that note not that I want to detract from the mag or anything but we really need to branch into other formats like audio. Ofcause people could record things etc and I could probably put those together. I have time I'd need the place to put it up but i probably at least for the moment could put up stuff on a small schedual, at least semi reggularly. Ofcause this stuff if it got serious would either have to be donationware or subscription based or something as I would eventually have to buy a web site and domain which could be quite expensive. I know where I can get a good deal but at 160-200 a year to double that for a site and domain it does not come cheap. I experemented last month with a free site which didn't work well at all but I am confordent I could have a small wordpress site, and a downloads folder with no restrictions where people could grab things, Ofcause I have dropbox to. Still would have to think on what I would have to do about that. It may for example be cheaper to get a free webhost like 000webhost and upgrade my dropbox, but then use some external drives to host the files rather than the main drive or something. maybe get a sepperate system to handle things with a seperate dropbox if I could do that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
well ron I could always help with the podcast I have a field recorder and a mic. Due to internal bad soundcards I can't record input and output at once not without vertual audio cable which ofcause is not free and is not worth buying. UNless there is an opensource or free thing that will do the same thing that would rock. a.m. 1/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Indeed doing a mag and a podcast would be an option. As for the format I'd have to give that some thought about articles, announcements and reviews. Though It would offer an opportunity to demo as well as announce new games. It's worth considering if there is enough interest. Ron - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Shaun, Well, with all do respect if we went to audio instead of a webzine then in effect what we would have is a podcast. While I agree an Audyssey podcast would be cool their are already technology podcasts like this available such as those on Blind Cool tech. I don't think we should confuse the magazine with a different format like a podcast as we could certainly have both if that were something the community would be interested in. cheers! On 7/31/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: on that note not that I want to detract from the mag or anything but we really need to branch into other formats like audio. Ofcause people could record things etc and I could probably put those together. I have time I'd need the place to put it up but i probably at least for the moment could put up stuff on a small schedual, at least semi reggularly. Ofcause this stuff if it got serious would either have to be donationware or subscription based or something as I would eventually have to buy a web site and domain which could be quite expensive. I know where I can get a good deal but at 160-200 a year to double that for a site and domain it does not come cheap. I experemented last month with a free site which didn't work well at all but I am confordent I could have a small wordpress site, and a downloads folder with no restrictions where people could grab things, Ofcause I have dropbox to. Still would have to think on what I would have to do about that. It may for example be cheaper to get a free webhost like 000webhost and upgrade my dropbox, but then use some external drives to host the files rather than the main drive or something. maybe get a sepperate system to handle things with a seperate dropbox if I could do that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
The problem with the gaming releases, and such is even though every dev may be developing, it looks like that releases come out randomly even if they don't actually do it. So we tend to swoop on a game firstly because something has actually happened, and then if its real good we will go at urnist. I mean with a few acceptions can anyone remember when the last free game was released. With the acception of all the ones that have been done this year that is. THough maybe it should be when was the last comercial game released. Well maybe thats easy, point is that anything and everything we swoop on because its new and we want to play it. The major issue is that guess the number, arcade, racing and in fact a lot of bord and other emulated games are the most easy to write so thats what we push out. With the acception of aprone who's games remind me of an rpg with interactive fiction and stratogy elements can we honestly say apart from mota and a few others that any really new games have conercially come out that have not emulated anything. I have no idea but it doesn't look like it, though maybe I have forgot something important. At 02:48 a.m. 1/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Darren, Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, even discussing this I'm afraid could kick off another flame war since people are likely to be sensative when it comes to discussing what is or isn't reasonable quality control. It is true anyone has the right to create and play anything they want, but, in my personal opinion, not every game meets a certain mainstream standard of quality and development. This is somewhat of a catch 22 situation since 99% of the developers here are self-taught, figuring things out as they go, and many don't have a real extensive knowledge of mainstream games to begin with. In short, they lack knowledge and experience that someone exposed to normal mainstream standards would expect of them. So if we hold up something like Shades of Doom as a type of goal or standard we should aim for then a lot of developers are going to come back with that's too hard orthat's unrealistically high even though that's exactly the kind of standard for mainstreamgames and gamers that we haven't reached yet. We are in some respects still trying to get there, and some developers are far too quick to publish something simple like BopIt instead of waiting to officially release something like Q9, Tank Commander, or Shades of Doom. If we wait for those developers to walk before they can run then of course we would have a lot of waiting to do. So its a catch 22 situation to either accept x number of simple games until they can produce something better, or not hear from them at all until they produce something better. I'm afraid I don't have an answer or solution for that issue myself. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, I agree actually. I think part of the problem here is that when everybody comes across a new game release, whatever it is, everybody swoops on it. that's not really the right way to be to be honest with you. Boppit whilst it can be fun to an extent really it's a kids game and to be honest I would shudder to put that out in the Magazine. it has to be said, I look at some of the writing on this list and other places with regards to games, I see topics such as this and I cringe thinking good god what if mainstream people see this? Don't get me wrong, we all have the right to enjoy what we wish and to talk about it but there is and can be a very obvious trade-off as a result. I think serious consideration needs to be given as to what is and what isn't deemed appropriate material for wide distribution of the Magazine. that's not to say we need to say no x rated games can be mentioned or games containing violence or such things, it's more about quality control. There's nothing wrong for example in mentioning there's a new developer coming in and learning what to do and all that. equally there's nothing wrong with a question and answer section to the Magazine for example, when said developers can indeed get the opportunity to ask various questions and answers can be sent to them personally or sent to the Magazine for inclusion in future issues. Indeed it would be nice to see answers to questions and people who aren't interested in that section can pass up on it and move on to something else that takes their interest. But yes, I do think some quality control is necessary. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. ---
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
well tom its safe to say that most of us here are just starting. Most don't have your background. I sertainly don't. When I started the most complex game I knew was intergalactic battle a graphics/menu game. Yes compaired to mainstream we are probably not that attractive. The point is that we have been stagnating in emulated arcade. Its not a bad thing but if we need to move foreward we will have to bite the bullet and try to go mainstream etc. Which brings up an interesting thing. Unless you are sighted and know what stuff was then you won't know what to really do. I have never been sighted in my life. You can go left right up down run left and right and jump. I know that mainstream stuff goes so much more than that. But there are limits in sounds, the number of sounds, etc. Then there is the fact most of us don't have updated equipment. And even if we have its not the most up to date. Ie I have what would be quite an ancient second generation dulecore with no real hard drive or memmory requirements running on an extremely insecure os, and old ish hardware that won't go anywhere and being unable to run major things. We are limited at least for a while to the fact most people will still have 32 bit systems. I know for a fact a few still have single core systems. Some may still use dos 6 and win98 still. With acceptions with those with linux or apple mac systems Hmmm not sure. Basically we are stuck with simple for a while I think until we get 64 bit fully then we will be behind again. So before we move foreward we need some online servey For our systems and what features etc we could have in a game or just the system specs. We need to know how many have medium spec systems like mine, to really old, to new to whatever, what os and what stuff we will want. I am thinking of making a test servey on surveymonkey or something just to see what things are like. At 03:16 a.m. 1/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Jeremy, Those are some very good points. In many ways when I joined the audio games community I had similar observations and I guess ideas where the community could go. That was about 10 or 11 years ago. I was sighted for the majority of my early life, lost my sight officially in the 90's, so I had a pretty good idea of what had been available for the sighted mainstream market at the time. When i started reading the mag so I could find out what games I could play or expect to create I saw that most people were playing text adventures or simple Dos games like Monopoly, Hangman, and things of that nature. The only developer who captured my immediate attention was GMA because they had a real time submarine simulation, Lone Wolf, and they were creating the world's first audio based first person shooter, Shades of Doom. Coming from a mainstream background as I had those were the games I naturally were most interested in because it wasn't so different from games I already knew and enjoyed before I lost my sight. In other words if we want to communicate and open dialog with other mainstream gamers its something like Shades of Doom or Tank Commander they will be interested in discussing. Anything less will seem to them as not very advanced or worth while. At least that's how I see it coming from that background myself. It is because of that background I have the opinions and attitudes I do have towards audio gaming. There is a reason I spent two years developing a 3d game engine I call Genesis 3D, and there is a reason I've adopted a number of features seen in the GMA Game engine. That reason being over the next five years or so I plan to create games on par with Halo, Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, and any other game that has had some commercial success in the mainstream market. Not necessarily because it will make a lot of money but because it is a style and standard of gaming that is rarely achieved by audio game developers accept for a handful like GMA who are trying to reach the same goal as I am. What you are doing for this community is no less valuable. Castaways is the best game I've seen since I don't know when. True it needs some better sound effects and things like that, but as Dark said it is the closest thing to Dwarf Fortress and games like that we have at the time being. It is getting us headed in the right direction as far as I am concerned and I'm all forward to bigger and more complex games of this nature. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: Clearly I'm the new guy around here, so I frequently ask dumb questions, surprise everyone by not knowing common things, and fail miserably while playing most audio games, Hahaha. In one way, this is a good thing since I am still able to see things in this community from the perspective of an outsider. As a new guy coming in, I was very excited to go and read the back issues of the magazine when I first heard about them. I wasn't actually all that long ago either. The old magazines were quite old, but I
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I agree with Tom on this. Also, i might point out that there are things which are stil easier to write in an artical form than a podcast, and people who would find the one easier to produce than the other, pluss as I said before, the more formal setting of the magazine encourages people to take time over what they're doing. Thus while a podcast might be nice to have too, i don't think it would be a viable replacement for the mag. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
His complaints are why I don't read his messages. Your responses to them, which are right on the button, are why I do read yours. Speaking of the mag, as the subject line indicates, I'm sure glad to hear that an issue will be out soon, with another to follow. It is a one-stop place that gamers can obtain a comprehensive indication on what's going on in the VI gaming community, what to try or not to try based on firsthand experiences, and reports, by other VI gamers, and what may be in store for the future. And speaking of articles for the mag, it's been a long time ago, so I don't remember if the two articles I wrote dealing with Hi Q were published. One told how to inexpensively make your own version of the game and what the object of the puzzle game is, the other gave the solution So, Ron, if you have those articles, feel free to publish. If you don't, I'll send them if I still have them. One more thing, and I do apologize for this lengthy post: Where can I download copies of all prior issues? The folder that I had, containing all of the prior issues, has somehow gotten deleted. They make such good reference material, I do want to get them all back. Thanks much.. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:02 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Shaun, I think you are being overly pessimisticwhen it comes to your personal views of the audio games community. Weather you realize it or not there is quite a lot more going on than you have given credit for, and I'd like to take this time to give some credit where credit is do and perhaps give you a more positive outlook on the community in general. Shaun wrote: However since the issue release seems to only be one every time you remember, or something, hmmm I don't know. My reply: I think that's a little unfair. Ron has had a number of personal issues to deal with, some he is willing to discuss and some he is not, but as with game development its all pretty much done on a voluntary basis, and I think you can give the guy a break for putting the magazine off until he was mentally, emotionally, and physically up to taking on the magazine again. If he can now dedicate himself to a quarterly release schedule that's great. If not we should be understanding enough to see that he is only one person and is doing this voluntarily on his own time and energy. Shaun wrote: There is almost no need for the letters section or the emails sections as these are shoved on the list. My reply: Not everyone is on the Audyssey list. Many are over on the audiogames.net forum, not on this list, and there are likely some people who aren't on either the forum or list who receive the magazine. The letters/e-mails section is a great way for them to keep up to speed with events without having to sub to the list or forum. Shaun wrote: There are so many opensource and freeware companies now that there are to many to count. My reply: You make that sound like a bad thing, and it certainly is not. From my perspective this makes the magazine all the more worth while as it gives new freeware and open source developers another outlet to talk about their games, announce their existence, and something we all can read regardless of what list or forums we may be on. While I might agree that someone's new Guess the Number game might not be particularly news or magazine worthy there have been a number of free games that should be mentioned in the magazine. Jeremy has released a surprising number of decent freeware games like Castaways that certainly deserves mention in the magazine, and its possible there are plenty of VI gamers who haven't tried Jeremy's games simply because they are so new and perhaps just haven't heard the news. Shaun wrote: Development has slowed to barely a crawl. With most of the devs either out of business, sitting on their buts as far as the rest probably cares or working on their projects without putting out any news, and a few other things the major community as it stands comercially is quite dead and bare. My reply: I really think that is pretty unfair. Blind Adrenaline is continuing to add games to the card room, and Che has become a leading commercial developer because of it. Blastbay Studios, AKA Philip Bennefall, has released a number of commercial and freeware products in a row including BGT, Q9, Kryngle Crash, Palace Punch-Up, and is working on a new commercial game as we speak. GMA released Time of Conflict last year. BPC Programs released 3D Velocity in this past year as well. Mysteries of the Ancients, my current commercial project, is scheduled for release this fall. My point being that far from dead commercial audio game developers have picked up production rather than slowed down as you seem to suggest above. Shaun wrote
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I feel that what should be covered in the magazine are games that blind people can play, and it is up to the reader as to whether they are good or not. Some people enjoy simple games that aren't complicated, others enjoy just the opposite. All should be covered. And, as Ron has pointed out many times in the magazine, if you want to write on a game, it doesn't matter whether someone else has already done so. The number and variants of articles on any given game will show it's popularity. We should not focus on the most advanced games in order to show how advanced the visually impaired games and gamers have become, or to impress the gaming community as a whole. We should focus on what interests visually impaired gamers. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails you would be swamped so for practical reasons it's best to assume that there are far more members on audiogames.net. so having the Magazine and various ways of distribution is and can only be a good thing. I would say though however that the content does need to be more streamlined. With the recent discussions on getting this community viewed more favourably by a mainstream community, we aren't going to do it with numbers games and Simon says type games. We have so many of those that quite honestly we don't need any more and to be blunt the Magazine doesn't need it either. It's poor representation. Am not trying to offend anybody, far from it but equally it has to be said that things do need to change with regards to what is brought out by some. Having said that I think the Magazine does offer much more positive things than negative on the whole. It just depends on what content is included. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Good points that I hadn't considered. One thought, though, is that it sure boosts a programmer's morale when they see their name up in lights, so to speak, for the first time. Maybe there should be a section entitled from new developers or something to that effect? Not in every issue, but once in a while, there could be mention of what they've done in, say, the last year, maybe in the issue near Christmas? --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Darren, I do agree that the magazine could be streamlined by cutting out and removing certain content that isn't up to par so to speak. Announcing every simple freeware or amateur game might not be in our best interests if we are hoping mainstream developers and gamers into our ranks. Games like Guess the Numberor BopIt arent' that news worthy, and I frankly feel that they probably shouldn't get much public attention from the magazine. I do think that we should be more professional about how we handle the magazine and take our queue from professional gaming magazines. This isn't being intended to be a put down, but mainstream magazines generally don't publish news and articles on every single practice or ametur game like Fred's Guess the Number out there. They tend to publish articles and news based on established developers who have reached a certain degree of quality and would be of interest to their readers. If that sounds elitest so be it, but it doesn't hurt to think about if the game being discussed would be of any real value to the community at large rather than just filling space. Let's be fair here. I know exactly how difficult it is to learn to program, how much time, skill, and energy goes into programming games. Every single developer starts with something extremely simple like Blackjack, Guess the Number, or Paper Scissors Rock because they require very little programming skill and experience to create. Every developer starts with such simple games and slowly but surely create more and more complex practice games until they are able to create the next Shades of Doom or tank Commander. While there is nothing wrong with helping a amateur developer with improving his/her Guess the Number or Paper Scissors Rock game they are still only practice amateur games. Such amateur developers should probably hold off releasing anything official until they have released a product that meets a reasonable standard of quality. Of course, what I would consider a reasonable standard and what someone might consider a reasonable standard could be quite different. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails you would be swamped so for practical reasons it's best to assume that there are far more members on audiogames.net. so having the Magazine and various ways of distribution is and can only be a good thing. I would say though however that the content does need to be more streamlined. With the recent discussions on getting this community viewed more favourably by a mainstream community, we aren't going to do it with numbers games and Simon says type games. We have so many of those that quite honestly we don't need any more and to be blunt the Magazine doesn't need it either. It's poor representation. Am not trying to offend anybody, far from it but equally it has to be said that things do need to change with regards to what is brought out by some. Having said that I think the Magazine does offer much more positive things than negative on the whole. It just depends on what content is included. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi tom, Well in the end, fact always wins over fiction. So really to be blunt again, people need to stop burying their heads in the sand and face the music. These simple games aren't going to cut it in the real world. They're good to practice on I can see the logic in that in terms of how to get code working, but equally that doesn't to my mind justify a release each time. how many space invader clones do we have now? the only thing that hasn't really been cloned to death is packman which is good because the job that Phil did with packman talks is a masterpiece in it's own right. The facts are these: 1. Developers are indeed starting from scratch and learning as they go. This I accept and openly acknowledge. I can't programme for the life of me so I'm not going to sit here and debate how easy or difficult x game is to create. 2. whether a person is self-taught or whether you go to school and learn, we all have to start somewhere. Again I totally accept this. But with experience comes improved quality of product. It's just the same as with any business venture. The longer you are in a given business providing you survive, the more you can refine and train yourself to do better, produce a better product or service. So to put this into the gaming context, the more you progress the better games you can produce and also there's plenty of knowledge and resources here to draw upon. In the mainstream gaming community, too much cloning will simply bore people and you won't have the attention you once had. Which in the long run can and will only serve to damage you. If the Audyssey Magazine is constantly full of these clones and there isn't an effective streamlining process, then it will kill the Magazine. pure and simple. Thus why gaming Magazines have a rating system for games and not everything gets in. At the end of the day, it's the people that drive the types of games that are produced and it's the Magazines that effectively report back to the people. So my question is, in order to support the masses, are we going to just accept that there can be a ton of low budget games out there to play that aren't too different from each other? or is a little time and patients worth the increase in the quality of game? That is the trade-off isn't it. personally I'm content to sit back and see what happens. In other words, let the developers do what they're best at. Let the newbies learn how to develop to a set standard thus over time the wait will be less because the more progressing developers there are out there, the increase in titles we'll see over time. If you yourself were working in the mainstream community and it was taking as long as it's taking you now to develop your game, the simple fact is that until your game is released, people will go and play other titles because they are available and there. by adhering and accepting the lower quality games we're doing ourselves much more harm than good in the long run in my opinion. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Charles in #54 the first part of Hi-q was published and the second part or solution file is upcoming. I appreciaite the contributions. In fact that was never a game I ever solved without a few pegs left. While talking about this do you have a solution for the single row version? I think it's about 15 holes or 14 pegs. It usually was included with the plus sign styled bored. Thanks for the positive thoughts on the mag. Talk soon Ron - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag His complaints are why I don't read his messages. Your responses to them, which are right on the button, are why I do read yours. Speaking of the mag, as the subject line indicates, I'm sure glad to hear that an issue will be out soon, with another to follow. It is a one-stop place that gamers can obtain a comprehensive indication on what's going on in the VI gaming community, what to try or not to try based on firsthand experiences, and reports, by other VI gamers, and what may be in store for the future. And speaking of articles for the mag, it's been a long time ago, so I don't remember if the two articles I wrote dealing with Hi Q were published. One told how to inexpensively make your own version of the game and what the object of the puzzle game is, the other gave the solution So, Ron, if you have those articles, feel free to publish. If you don't, I'll send them if I still have them. One more thing, and I do apologize for this lengthy post: Where can I download copies of all prior issues? The folder that I had, containing all of the prior issues, has somehow gotten deleted. They make such good reference material, I do want to get them all back. Thanks much.. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:02 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Shaun, I think you are being overly pessimisticwhen it comes to your personal views of the audio games community. Weather you realize it or not there is quite a lot more going on than you have given credit for, and I'd like to take this time to give some credit where credit is do and perhaps give you a more positive outlook on the community in general. Shaun wrote: However since the issue release seems to only be one every time you remember, or something, hmmm I don't know. My reply: I think that's a little unfair. Ron has had a number of personal issues to deal with, some he is willing to discuss and some he is not, but as with game development its all pretty much done on a voluntary basis, and I think you can give the guy a break for putting the magazine off until he was mentally, emotionally, and physically up to taking on the magazine again. If he can now dedicate himself to a quarterly release schedule that's great. If not we should be understanding enough to see that he is only one person and is doing this voluntarily on his own time and energy. Shaun wrote: There is almost no need for the letters section or the emails sections as these are shoved on the list. My reply: Not everyone is on the Audyssey list. Many are over on the audiogames.net forum, not on this list, and there are likely some people who aren't on either the forum or list who receive the magazine. The letters/e-mails section is a great way for them to keep up to speed with events without having to sub to the list or forum. Shaun wrote: There are so many opensource and freeware companies now that there are to many to count. My reply: You make that sound like a bad thing, and it certainly is not. From my perspective this makes the magazine all the more worth while as it gives new freeware and open source developers another outlet to talk about their games, announce their existence, and something we all can read regardless of what list or forums we may be on. While I might agree that someone's new Guess the Number game might not be particularly news or magazine worthy there have been a number of free games that should be mentioned in the magazine. Jeremy has released a surprising number of decent freeware games like Castaways that certainly deserves mention in the magazine, and its possible there are plenty of VI gamers who haven't tried Jeremy's games simply because they are so new and perhaps just haven't heard the news. Shaun wrote: Development has slowed to barely a crawl. With most of the devs either out of business, sitting on their buts as far as the rest probably cares or working on their projects without putting out any news, and a few other things the major community as it stands comercially is quite dead and bare. My reply: I really think that is pretty unfair. Blind Adrenaline is continuing to add games to the card room
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Charles I like the idea of new devs. As you mention it wouldn't be always in the mag as a new dev only happens every so often. Mind having said that we've had two pop up in the last day or so. But that seems more of an exception instead of the rule. What I like about it is that it would act as somewhat of a filter. It would allow folks to look at the new devs or not. That might be to some folks taste. Great idea and I think I'll steal it. *l* Ron - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Good points that I hadn't considered. One thought, though, is that it sure boosts a programmer's morale when they see their name up in lights, so to speak, for the first time. Maybe there should be a section entitled from new developers or something to that effect? Not in every issue, but once in a while, there could be mention of what they've done in, say, the last year, maybe in the issue near Christmas? --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Darren, I do agree that the magazine could be streamlined by cutting out and removing certain content that isn't up to par so to speak. Announcing every simple freeware or amateur game might not be in our best interests if we are hoping mainstream developers and gamers into our ranks. Games like Guess the Numberor BopIt arent' that news worthy, and I frankly feel that they probably shouldn't get much public attention from the magazine. I do think that we should be more professional about how we handle the magazine and take our queue from professional gaming magazines. This isn't being intended to be a put down, but mainstream magazines generally don't publish news and articles on every single practice or ametur game like Fred's Guess the Number out there. They tend to publish articles and news based on established developers who have reached a certain degree of quality and would be of interest to their readers. If that sounds elitest so be it, but it doesn't hurt to think about if the game being discussed would be of any real value to the community at large rather than just filling space. Let's be fair here. I know exactly how difficult it is to learn to program, how much time, skill, and energy goes into programming games. Every single developer starts with something extremely simple like Blackjack, Guess the Number, or Paper Scissors Rock because they require very little programming skill and experience to create. Every developer starts with such simple games and slowly but surely create more and more complex practice games until they are able to create the next Shades of Doom or tank Commander. While there is nothing wrong with helping a amateur developer with improving his/her Guess the Number or Paper Scissors Rock game they are still only practice amateur games. Such amateur developers should probably hold off releasing anything official until they have released a product that meets a reasonable standard of quality. Of course, what I would consider a reasonable standard and what someone might consider a reasonable standard could be quite different. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails you would be swamped so for practical reasons it's best to assume that there are far more members on audiogames.net. so having the Magazine and various ways of distribution is and can only be a good thing. I would say though however that the content does need to be more streamlined. With the recent discussions on getting
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I aggree. We should focus on all games. There is hardly an issue these days and hasn't for a bit, so at least for now we shouldn't be picky about goes in there. At 09:47 a.m. 1/08/2011, you wrote: I feel that what should be covered in the magazine are games that blind people can play, and it is up to the reader as to whether they are good or not. Some people enjoy simple games that aren't complicated, others enjoy just the opposite. All should be covered. And, as Ron has pointed out many times in the magazine, if you want to write on a game, it doesn't matter whether someone else has already done so. The number and variants of articles on any given game will show it's popularity. We should not focus on the most advanced games in order to show how advanced the visually impaired games and gamers have become, or to impress the gaming community as a whole. We should focus on what interests visually impaired gamers. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails you would be swamped so for practical reasons it's best to assume that there are far more members on audiogames.net. so having the Magazine and various ways of distribution is and can only be a good thing. I would say though however that the content does need to be more streamlined. With the recent discussions on getting this community viewed more favourably by a mainstream community, we aren't going to do it with numbers games and Simon says type games. We have so many of those that quite honestly we don't need any more and to be blunt the Magazine doesn't need it either. It's poor representation. Am not trying to offend anybody, far from it but equally it has to be said that things do need to change with regards to what is brought out by some. Having said that I think the Magazine does offer much more positive things than negative on the whole. It just depends on what content is included. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
While we are talking about the mag and its formats. I think the mag should be put up in plain marked html as well as the other text formats. This is after all how a lot of us navigate things and I have often found it easier to navigate mags and news letters that traditionally ran in text only using html. At 10:10 a.m. 1/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Charles I like the idea of new devs. As you mention it wouldn't be always in the mag as a new dev only happens every so often. Mind having said that we've had two pop up in the last day or so. But that seems more of an exception instead of the rule. What I like about it is that it would act as somewhat of a filter. It would allow folks to look at the new devs or not. That might be to some folks taste. Great idea and I think I'll steal it. *l* Ron - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Good points that I hadn't considered. One thought, though, is that it sure boosts a programmer's morale when they see their name up in lights, so to speak, for the first time. Maybe there should be a section entitled from new developers or something to that effect? Not in every issue, but once in a while, there could be mention of what they've done in, say, the last year, maybe in the issue near Christmas? --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Darren, I do agree that the magazine could be streamlined by cutting out and removing certain content that isn't up to par so to speak. Announcing every simple freeware or amateur game might not be in our best interests if we are hoping mainstream developers and gamers into our ranks. Games like Guess the Numberor BopIt arent' that news worthy, and I frankly feel that they probably shouldn't get much public attention from the magazine. I do think that we should be more professional about how we handle the magazine and take our queue from professional gaming magazines. This isn't being intended to be a put down, but mainstream magazines generally don't publish news and articles on every single practice or ametur game like Fred's Guess the Number out there. They tend to publish articles and news based on established developers who have reached a certain degree of quality and would be of interest to their readers. If that sounds elitest so be it, but it doesn't hurt to think about if the game being discussed would be of any real value to the community at large rather than just filling space. Let's be fair here. I know exactly how difficult it is to learn to program, how much time, skill, and energy goes into programming games. Every single developer starts with something extremely simple like Blackjack, Guess the Number, or Paper Scissors Rock because they require very little programming skill and experience to create. Every developer starts with such simple games and slowly but surely create more and more complex practice games until they are able to create the next Shades of Doom or tank Commander. While there is nothing wrong with helping a amateur developer with improving his/her Guess the Number or Paper Scissors Rock game they are still only practice amateur games. Such amateur developers should probably hold off releasing anything official until they have released a product that meets a reasonable standard of quality. Of course, what I would consider a reasonable standard and what someone might consider a reasonable standard could be quite different. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Then again, if you were working for a company that produces mainstream games, there would be a whole group of co-workers. In our community, there are not. There would be a huge budget from which to draw, and in our community, there is not. You would make a very good salary doing what you do, and in our community, you are not. To me, unless I'm seeing it wrongly, you are comparing grapes to grapefruit. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi tom, Well in the end, fact always wins over fiction. So really to be blunt again, people need to stop burying their heads in the sand and face the music. These simple games aren't going to cut it in the real world. They're good to practice on I can see the logic in that in terms of how to get code working, but equally that doesn't to my mind justify a release each time. how many space invader clones do we have now? the only thing that hasn't really been cloned to death is packman which is good because the job that Phil did with packman talks is a masterpiece in it's own right. The facts are these: 1. Developers are indeed starting from scratch and learning as they go. This I accept and openly acknowledge. I can't programme for the life of me so I'm not going to sit here and debate how easy or difficult x game is to create. 2. whether a person is self-taught or whether you go to school and learn, we all have to start somewhere. Again I totally accept this. But with experience comes improved quality of product. It's just the same as with any business venture. The longer you are in a given business providing you survive, the more you can refine and train yourself to do better, produce a better product or service. So to put this into the gaming context, the more you progress the better games you can produce and also there's plenty of knowledge and resources here to draw upon. In the mainstream gaming community, too much cloning will simply bore people and you won't have the attention you once had. Which in the long run can and will only serve to damage you. If the Audyssey Magazine is constantly full of these clones and there isn't an effective streamlining process, then it will kill the Magazine. pure and simple. Thus why gaming Magazines have a rating system for games and not everything gets in. At the end of the day, it's the people that drive the types of games that are produced and it's the Magazines that effectively report back to the people. So my question is, in order to support the masses, are we going to just accept that there can be a ton of low budget games out there to play that aren't too different from each other? or is a little time and patients worth the increase in the quality of game? That is the trade-off isn't it. personally I'm content to sit back and see what happens. In other words, let the developers do what they're best at. Let the newbies learn how to develop to a set standard thus over time the wait will be less because the more progressing developers there are out there, the increase in titles we'll see over time. If you yourself were working in the mainstream community and it was taking as long as it's taking you now to develop your game, the simple fact is that until your game is released, people will go and play other titles because they are available and there. by adhering and accepting the lower quality games we're doing ourselves much more harm than good in the long run in my opinion. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I won't look as you're swiping it. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Charles I like the idea of new devs. As you mention it wouldn't be always in the mag as a new dev only happens every so often. Mind having said that we've had two pop up in the last day or so. But that seems more of an exception instead of the rule. What I like about it is that it would act as somewhat of a filter. It would allow folks to look at the new devs or not. That might be to some folks taste. Great idea and I think I'll steal it. *l* Ron - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Good points that I hadn't considered. One thought, though, is that it sure boosts a programmer's morale when they see their name up in lights, so to speak, for the first time. Maybe there should be a section entitled from new developers or something to that effect? Not in every issue, but once in a while, there could be mention of what they've done in, say, the last year, maybe in the issue near Christmas? --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Darren, I do agree that the magazine could be streamlined by cutting out and removing certain content that isn't up to par so to speak. Announcing every simple freeware or amateur game might not be in our best interests if we are hoping mainstream developers and gamers into our ranks. Games like Guess the Numberor BopIt arent' that news worthy, and I frankly feel that they probably shouldn't get much public attention from the magazine. I do think that we should be more professional about how we handle the magazine and take our queue from professional gaming magazines. This isn't being intended to be a put down, but mainstream magazines generally don't publish news and articles on every single practice or ametur game like Fred's Guess the Number out there. They tend to publish articles and news based on established developers who have reached a certain degree of quality and would be of interest to their readers. If that sounds elitest so be it, but it doesn't hurt to think about if the game being discussed would be of any real value to the community at large rather than just filling space. Let's be fair here. I know exactly how difficult it is to learn to program, how much time, skill, and energy goes into programming games. Every single developer starts with something extremely simple like Blackjack, Guess the Number, or Paper Scissors Rock because they require very little programming skill and experience to create. Every developer starts with such simple games and slowly but surely create more and more complex practice games until they are able to create the next Shades of Doom or tank Commander. While there is nothing wrong with helping a amateur developer with improving his/her Guess the Number or Paper Scissors Rock game they are still only practice amateur games. Such amateur developers should probably hold off releasing anything official until they have released a product that meets a reasonable standard of quality. Of course, what I would consider a reasonable standard and what someone might consider a reasonable standard could be quite different. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: hi tom and all, the Audyssey Magazine does do a great deal I think to show just how effective this community can be. Ok I do think that some of the game releases are a joke, like the numbers games there are out there, hangman and the like, but also there have been some fantastic games out there as well. Castaways among the best of them, along with time of conflict, tank commander, yeah the story goes on. Also another point to note as well is that the Magazine also allows for people to share their experiences of games that weren't specifically designed with blind people and accessibility in mind, but are otherwise accessible. Core exiles for one, ashes of angels, unification wars and many other titles. Also another point to consider as well is that the Magazine does have the ability to present a formal case for the inclusion of accessibility in other game titles. There are probably a lot more people subscribed to audiogames.net than there are on this list. I mean let's face it if we had a list with thousands of people on it and active, because it's emails you would be swamped so for practical reasons it's best to assume
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Charles and all, Yes and no. Certainly it helps to have a large team of developers, lots of money for bigger and better games, etc but that's not really what Darren and I are getting at all. It has more to do with specific features and standards that have already been set by mainstream games similar to the one in which you intend to create. Even simple games have standards already set by mainstream developers that should attempt to be met when and where possible. Here is a clear cut example of what I mean. For instance, I'm going to compare the game Pull to a mainstream game similar to it, and hopefully shed some constructive criticism how Pull could be better if just a few features were added that is common in mainstream arcade games. Now, I am fully aware it was the developers first release, the developer is totally new programmer, and so on but the fact still remains it has a ways to go to compare to a similar mainstream game. At the moment the closest thing that comes to mind is Duck Hunt for the classic NES. In Pull someone launches clay pigeons from the left, they pass in front of you, and you must load your shotgun and shoot them. In Duck Hunt Ducks will appear from the left or the right and pass in front of you, and you must shoot them down. As I said its a similar concept, but that's where the similarities begin and end as Duck Hunt is in many respects a more complex game. First, is the matter of difficulty or challenge. In Pull the speed of the pigeons doesn't seem to change from round to round so you can litterally keep shooting them and the game doesn't seem to get any harder. In Duck Hunt every round or level gets a bit faster making it harder and harder to shoot the ducks because the speed increases as you rack up the rounds. Second, is alternative directions. In Pull the pigeons always start from the left side and fly right. In Duck Hunt ducks can start from either the left or right, and it seems to be pretty random. So that can throw you off as you never know which side the target will be coming from. Third, is multiple targets. In Pull there only seems to be a maximum of one pigeon at a time. In Duck Hunt, depending on difficulty, you might have one, two, and sometimes three ducks on screen at once making it much more challenging to get them all before they fly off screen. Fourth, two-player mode. In Pull there is only a single player mode. In Duck Hunt, like most classic arcade games, it allowed you to set the game up for single-player or two-player mode so you and a friend could compete for the highest score. Finally, the ability to actually aim your gun. In Pull the shotgun is fixed dead center in the screen and won't allow you to move the gun around. In Duck Hunt there was a NES controller, a gun that plugged into the console, that allowed you to move the gun around on the screen, site ducks, and shoot them down. You weren't just fixed in one place. As I said all of these points are raised in the hopes that they will be taken as constructive criticism, and more over what I am suggesting here isn't all that difficult for a single developer to add. It is not necessarily comparing grapes to grapefruit, because I'm comparing two games that are similar enough to each other to share the same kinds of features, same type of game play, but don't have the same features or quality because the developer probably didn't think those features were necessary. Its simply that there are standards that have been set by companies like Nintendo, even for a simple game like Duck Hunt, and anything less than similar features and game play is below what I and many mainstream gamers would see as par for that type of game. Many of these improvements don't have to be particularly major, but it would help if the developer would do his or her best to meet some kind of mainstream standards like that when and where possible. The game doesn't have to be the next Shades of Doom or Mysteries of the Ancients to be mainstream quality. It just requires researching what similar games have and try to add those kinds of features to their own game if at all possible. Cheers! On 7/31/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Then again, if you were working for a company that produces mainstream games, there would be a whole group of co-workers. In our community, there are not. There would be a huge budget from which to draw, and in our community, there is not. You would make a very good salary doing what you do, and in our community, you are not. To me, unless I'm seeing it wrongly, you are comparing grapes to grapefruit. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Darren, Agreed. That was basically my point in my prior post on comparing Pull to Duck Hunt. I don't think we should just accept a lower standard because it is quicker, easier, it was a first game, whatever. There are clear cut features that are easy enough to put in place and for reasons only known to the developers who create the audio games they aren't always followed or added. For instance, take the analog jump system in Mysteries of the Ancients. I've gotten a number of complaints about it simply because a lot of VI gamers aren't use to timing a jump. Yet analog jumping has been in about every mainstream game i can think of from Montezuma's Revenge, to Super Mario Brothers, to Donkey Kong, to Tomb Raider. It was actually something quite simple to add, and I find it a bit surprising that I'm currently the only audio game developer using that type of jump system in my games. That's just a small example of how there is an existing standard in mainstream games that hasn't yet made it into wide use in audio games yet. Cheers! On 7/31/11, darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, Well in the end, fact always wins over fiction. So really to be blunt again, people need to stop burying their heads in the sand and face the music. These simple games aren't going to cut it in the real world. They're good to practice on I can see the logic in that in terms of how to get code working, but equally that doesn't to my mind justify a release each time. how many space invader clones do we have now? the only thing that hasn't really been cloned to death is packman which is good because the job that Phil did with packman talks is a masterpiece in it's own right. The facts are these: 1. Developers are indeed starting from scratch and learning as they go. This I accept and openly acknowledge. I can't programme for the life of me so I'm not going to sit here and debate how easy or difficult x game is to create. 2. whether a person is self-taught or whether you go to school and learn, we all have to start somewhere. Again I totally accept this. But with experience comes improved quality of product. It's just the same as with any business venture. The longer you are in a given business providing you survive, the more you can refine and train yourself to do better, produce a better product or service. So to put this into the gaming context, the more you progress the better games you can produce and also there's plenty of knowledge and resources here to draw upon. In the mainstream gaming community, too much cloning will simply bore people and you won't have the attention you once had. Which in the long run can and will only serve to damage you. If the Audyssey Magazine is constantly full of these clones and there isn't an effective streamlining process, then it will kill the Magazine. pure and simple. Thus why gaming Magazines have a rating system for games and not everything gets in. At the end of the day, it's the people that drive the types of games that are produced and it's the Magazines that effectively report back to the people. So my question is, in order to support the masses, are we going to just accept that there can be a ton of low budget games out there to play that aren't too different from each other? or is a little time and patients worth the increase in the quality of game? That is the trade-off isn't it. personally I'm content to sit back and see what happens. In other words, let the developers do what they're best at. Let the newbies learn how to develop to a set standard thus over time the wait will be less because the more progressing developers there are out there, the increase in titles we'll see over time. If you yourself were working in the mainstream community and it was taking as long as it's taking you now to develop your game, the simple fact is that until your game is released, people will go and play other titles because they are available and there. by adhering and accepting the lower quality games we're doing ourselves much more harm than good in the long run in my opinion. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Ron. i'm pleased the mag is back. while it's true the announcements in the mag really are duplicated on list or on audiogames.net (though obviously there ar people who do not check those places), for me it's the articals, reviews and editorials that are the interesting point. Having a more formal setting and distribution means that people are more inclined to write seriously and considder what they are writing than just dashing off a quick response. for this reason i'm very happy that the mag is back, and would certainly like it to continue coming out once every few months, though i might suggest that perhaps submissions be a litle more formal and you give us reminders when your looking for stuff, sinse obviously publishing in the mag is something which should be considdered. this is what spag and other web zeense have done, concentrated on more formal submission of materials, and become more like a professional printed magazine. Btw, formal does not equal boring, comedy stuff and funny materials are deffinately good too, I just mean encouraging people to take the time to write and think carefully, including better jokes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Ron, That sounds fair in terms of catching the community up on past news for the magazine, but I do have some concerns. For instance, I am pretty sure I sent you some kind of press releases for MOTA. I would hate to see you send out an announcement for say beta 17 when I'm about to release beta 21 on Monday. I'm away from home today, but I have plans to finish work on beta 21 this weekend so if there are any past announcements for MOTA I'd prefer to pull them from the mag. HTH On 7/30/11, Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca wrote: Hi everyone I thought I would send this here to get feedback from this section of the list. This will also go out to the mag only group as well. Granted I know it has been quite some time without an issue. In order to catch up my thoughts were as follows. Send out issue #55 as it stands, then after sifting through the recovered emails send a supplement covering the released games since #54. The potential articles I'll keep until the next issue. I am curious about how often you folks are interested in the mag, true alot of the material shows up here to my chagrin. So how often would be good to wrap it up as an email newsletter? The folks on the mag only naturally haven't seen any of this conversation but I will send this to them as well. Yes I did drop the ball. For many reasons which I may or may not explain but I do sincerely want to keep Audyssey going. My inbox is open for any thoughts you may have. Comments and such are always welcome, #55 will be out tomorrow at the latest, and a further announcement of games once I go through all the recovered emails. Thanks to Damian for the program to do that. Looking forward to some input from folks. Take care Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca Audyssey Editor --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Tom Of course I'll only use the most up-to-date info I have. Examples being I'll put in Jim's Awesome Homer, and since I know the next version of MOTA is coming out I'll let people know to check there in a few days. Or I'll include it in the updated games list. No worries, I'm not about to put someone on the hot seat. Glad to be getting some feedback. Ron - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron, That sounds fair in terms of catching the community up on past news for the magazine, but I do have some concerns. For instance, I am pretty sure I sent you some kind of press releases for MOTA. I would hate to see you send out an announcement for say beta 17 when I'm about to release beta 21 on Monday. I'm away from home today, but I have plans to finish work on beta 21 this weekend so if there are any past announcements for MOTA I'd prefer to pull them from the mag. HTH On 7/30/11, Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca wrote: Hi everyone I thought I would send this here to get feedback from this section of the list. This will also go out to the mag only group as well. Granted I know it has been quite some time without an issue. In order to catch up my thoughts were as follows. Send out issue #55 as it stands, then after sifting through the recovered emails send a supplement covering the released games since #54. The potential articles I'll keep until the next issue. I am curious about how often you folks are interested in the mag, true alot of the material shows up here to my chagrin. So how often would be good to wrap it up as an email newsletter? The folks on the mag only naturally haven't seen any of this conversation but I will send this to them as well. Yes I did drop the ball. For many reasons which I may or may not explain but I do sincerely want to keep Audyssey going. My inbox is open for any thoughts you may have. Comments and such are always welcome, #55 will be out tomorrow at the latest, and a further announcement of games once I go through all the recovered emails. Thanks to Damian for the program to do that. Looking forward to some input from folks. Take care Ron Schamerhorn blindwon...@cogeco.ca Audyssey Editor --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Dark I encourage everyone to write about some aspect of gaming. Maybe a review of their favourite game, the best gamepad, what they like in ambiance or whatever. I don't think I've ever missed publishing something that has been sent to me. I'm now of renewed spirit, ready to get it done, and keep it going for along time. Thanks for the vote Ron - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron. i'm pleased the mag is back. while it's true the announcements in the mag really are duplicated on list or on audiogames.net (though obviously there ar people who do not check those places), for me it's the articals, reviews and editorials that are the interesting point. Having a more formal setting and distribution means that people are more inclined to write seriously and considder what they are writing than just dashing off a quick response. for this reason i'm very happy that the mag is back, and would certainly like it to continue coming out once every few months, though i might suggest that perhaps submissions be a litle more formal and you give us reminders when your looking for stuff, sinse obviously publishing in the mag is something which should be considdered. this is what spag and other web zeense have done, concentrated on more formal submission of materials, and become more like a professional printed magazine. Btw, formal does not equal boring, comedy stuff and funny materials are deffinately good too, I just mean encouraging people to take the time to write and think carefully, including better jokes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Ron. well if that is the case, please let me know if your looking for articals, as obviously i would be interested in trying another myself, but also I can stick something on the audiogames.net site to the affect that anyone wanting to write a review or artical can send it to you for publication. there has been some discussion about a review section for the site and some people wanting to write reviews, so if your publishing the mag again and including reviews there may well be some other people who'd like to contribute. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
This is fantastic news! I've really missed the magazine. I'll be writing for it again I used to enjoy the stuff I would produce a few years ago. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 30 July 2011 22:26 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron. well if that is the case, please let me know if your looking for articals, as obviously i would be interested in trying another myself, but also I can stick something on the audiogames.net site to the affect that anyone wanting to write a review or artical can send it to you for publication. there has been some discussion about a review section for the site and some people wanting to write reviews, so if your publishing the mag again and including reviews there may well be some other people who'd like to contribute. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Dark That's some fantastic news! Myself I get rather muddled at forums so if people want to write about a game they like then it's wholeheartedly encouraged and gladly published. anytime is good to send something as the inbox is always open. I'd rather think of what to hold back for the next issue. Ron - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron. well if that is the case, please let me know if your looking for articals, as obviously i would be interested in trying another myself, but also I can stick something on the audiogames.net site to the affect that anyone wanting to write a review or artical can send it to you for publication. there has been some discussion about a review section for the site and some people wanting to write reviews, so if your publishing the mag again and including reviews there may well be some other people who'd like to contribute. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Darren That's great for me to hear as contributions go. I'm always willing to read what people have to say about games. Look forward to hearing from you. Take care Ron - Original Message - From: darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag This is fantastic news! I've really missed the magazine. I'll be writing for it again I used to enjoy the stuff I would produce a few years ago. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 30 July 2011 22:26 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron. well if that is the case, please let me know if your looking for articals, as obviously i would be interested in trying another myself, but also I can stick something on the audiogames.net site to the affect that anyone wanting to write a review or artical can send it to you for publication. there has been some discussion about a review section for the site and some people wanting to write reviews, so if your publishing the mag again and including reviews there may well be some other people who'd like to contribute. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Ron. Okay, I'll pass that on. just out of interest, what is the mail address to send to? is it stil blindwon...@cogeco.ca Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Dark Indeed I'm still at that address. so feel free to let people know about it. Ron - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron. Okay, I'll pass that on. just out of interest, what is the mail address to send to? is it stil blindwon...@cogeco.ca Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi all, I'd also like to make a miner correction in something I found in the mag as well. In he article on Vista compatibility I said Chopper Command. That should have been Chopper Patrol. I'll be sending out an updated version of the compatibility chart next mag with Dan Ze Games and others added into the list. Ron Schamerhorn wrote: Hi all I'd like to apollogize for all the breaks which appear in the magazine. I double checked the message before it went out but regardless of effort it seems to have put breaks where none were supposed to be put. If anyone knows OE enough I'd be very happy for any suggestions to solve this problem. Thanks ahead of time Ron Audyssey Editor ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi all, It was approved not long ago so should be finding it's way into your inboxes any time. Be sure to check earlier in your inbox. Messages that get approved late tend to show up near the beginning of todays messages and not later in the days messages depending on when they were originally sent. For example, a message that is sent out at 9:00 AM EST and isn't approved until say 12:00 PM EST when it shows up in your inbox will be time stamped with 9:00 AM EST, near the beginning of the days messages, rather than be in with the 2:00 PM batch of messages. Hope this helps. Orin wrote: Hi Ron, I don't think anyone got a copy of the mag, at least I didn't. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi all, The mag should be appearing in your inboxes shortly. Keep in mind it will likely show up earlier in your inbox than the current messages. Messages that are approved tend to show up according to the time they were originally sent rather than the time they were approved. For example, a lister sends a message at 9:00 AM EST and that message isn't approved until 12:00 PM EST will show up earlier in your inbox with the older 9:00 AM messages and not with the 12:00 PM messages which was the time it was approved. Hope this helps. Orin wrote: Hi Ron, I don't think anyone got a copy of the mag, at least I didn't. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Ron, I don't think anyone got a copy of the mag, at least I didn't. -- Currently in Mount Holly, South Jersey Regional, New Jersey Clear, 75.9°F(24.4°C) Wind:Calm Silence is one of the most effective forms of communication. Created by Weather Signature v1.20 . http://www.weathersig.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aim: orin8722 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
Hi Orin It was just sent prior to my email question. Being of that size it'll need mod approval to go through. But if anyone has an answer keep the question in mind. Ron - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron, I don't think anyone got a copy of the mag, at least I didn't. -- Currently in Mount Holly, South Jersey Regional, New Jersey Clear, 75.9°F(24.4°C) Wind:Calm Silence is one of the most effective forms of communication. Created by Weather Signature v1.20 . http://www.weathersig.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aim: orin8722 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I didn't either although I missed the first week of august's e-mails on the list. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About the mag Hi Ron, I don't think anyone got a copy of the mag, at least I didn't. -- Currently in Mount Holly, South Jersey Regional, New Jersey Clear, 75.9°F(24.4°C) Wind:Calm Silence is one of the most effective forms of communication. Created by Weather Signature v1.20 . http://www.weathersig.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aim: orin8722 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.15/949 - Release Date: 8/12/2007 11:03 AM ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] About the mag
I never got one either. At 02:52 p.m. 13/08/2007, you wrote: Hi Ron, I don't think anyone got a copy of the mag, at least I didn't. -- Currently in Mount Holly, South Jersey Regional, New Jersey Clear, 75.9°F(24.4°C) Wind:Calm Silence is one of the most effective forms of communication. Created by Weather Signature v1.20 . http://www.weathersig.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aim: orin8722 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.15/949 - Release Date: 12/08/2007 11:03 a.m. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.15/949 - Release Date: 12/08/2007 11:03 a.m. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
