subject:"k4t4949b \(September 2016 refresh of the z\/OS 2.2 manuals\)"


Joel C. Ewing wrote:

Unfortunately in a large corporate environment you may have a large
number of users with access to workstations who are not sophisticated
enough to understand software licensing distinctions.


My experience in Fortune 100 Land is that these policies readily transmute themselves into tools for maintaining the 
status quo

and shielding the incompetent rather than protecting the institution or the 
customers.

My suggestion is that institutions create trained cadres of Open Source Officers (OSO, The Bear) and have one in each 
technical

dep't. empowere to approve/disapprovite in a timely fashion all requests to 
install specific open source packages.

If the glasshouse doesn't get a shovel handy, it's going to suffocate under its own mountain of bullfeathers. When I was 
younger and studying

Roman history, I could understand the Roman Republic and the early Empire, but 
found the Byzantine Era impenetrable. At this
point in my life, I understand the Byzantine Era much better than I did before!

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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
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Re: Corporate lawsuit exposure Was: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Lester, Bob

Hi Joel,

 Indeed.  We are a fairly small shop  (less than 2,000 employees).  We do 
not allow end-users or most IT folks to install software on their company 
device.  Too many variables - Licensing is a big one for use, but we're also 
concerned about any software that talks to our infrastructure - we have to 
review any new software - regardless of the licensing policy of the product.  

 Occasionally, this is a pain in the butt for us techie types.  Even though 
I'm a senior MF guy with 26 years on the job (and also doing linux and unix), I 
have personally fought that battle and lost.

IMHO, With all the threats out there, companies (like mine and many others, 
I suspect) are just doing whey that have to do to protect themselves and their 
customers.

 It's a much different world in IT than it was (even) 10 years ago.  Yes, I 
miss those days!

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Joel C. Ewing
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 3:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Corporate lawsuit exposure Was: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of 
the z/OS 2.2 manuals) [ EXTERNAL ]

On 09/20/2016 11:53 AM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:
> Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> ...
>>   It takes only one software-piracy lawsuit to devour far more than 
>> our own contribution to the bottom line. We have to live by rules 
>> that may or may not be intended to protect us. The penalty for 
>> violating corporate policy can be severe in the extreme.
>
> Using without altering or redistributing open source licensed under 
> standard licenses (GNU/BSD-2/Apache/IBM Common, etc) is never software 
> piracy.
>
> Downloading a compiled "free" piece of software from random vendors is 
> legally dicey. Installing an RPM on z/Linux is not at all dicey.
> ...
>
Unfortunately in a large corporate environment you may have a large number of 
users with access to workstations who are not sophisticated
enough to understand software licensing distinctions.   A blanket
restriction on user installation of any additional software on a workstation or 
of running software from any unapproved external media is a policy that has 
some hope of being communicated to such users and possibly even enforced.  If 
you open up the flexibility to do otherwise, how do you explain to such users 
that just because they can freely download or install some software that they 
use at home and it runs OK at work without complaining, that this doesn't 
necessarily mean it's legal?  

I have seen a lot of software out there that is free for personal home use but 
requires a paid license to be legal in a business environment.  
There also used to be some personal software licenses that explicitly granted 
the user the right to use the same software on both his home and business 
workstations; but how is the company, if asked, able to prove in such cases 
that the software usage is legit and covered by a license in home-possession of 
a user acting within the scope of his personal license? And what if by some 
oversight that software fails to get deleted from the office workstation when 
that user leaves the company and takes his license with him?

I suspect the Linux case may not be 100% clear either.  I don't know of any 
specific cases with zLinux, but can one for certain rule out the possibility 
that one might install without restriction an RPM that adds a software 
repository, but that some RPMs within that repository might in fact be 
use-restricted in some way?  I'm pretty sure that in the case of Fedora Linux 
there are some packages that have migrated out of the main Fedora repositories 
over the years into other repositories precisely because of licensing issues; 
yet adding those other repositories without concern for those distinctions is a 
common accepted practice for many users.  And, when installing packages from a 
collection of repositories, how carefully does one even note which repository 
is the source?
Joel C. Ewing, Bentonville, AR

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Corporate lawsuit exposure Was: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Joel C. Ewing

On 09/20/2016 11:53 AM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:
> Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> ...
>>   It takes only one software-piracy lawsuit to devour far more than
>> our own contribution to the bottom line. We have to live by rules
>> that may or may not be intended to protect us. The penalty for
>> violating corporate policy can be severe in the extreme.
>
> Using without altering or redistributing open source licensed under
> standard licenses (GNU/BSD-2/Apache/IBM Common, etc) is never software
> piracy.
>
> Downloading a compiled "free" piece of software from random vendors is
> legally dicey. Installing an RPM on z/Linux is not at all dicey.
> ...
>
Unfortunately in a large corporate environment you may have a large
number of users with access to workstations who are not sophisticated
enough to understand software licensing distinctions.   A blanket
restriction on user installation of any additional software on a
workstation or of running software from any unapproved external media is
a policy that has some hope of being communicated to such users and
possibly even enforced.  If you open up the flexibility to do otherwise,
how do you explain to such users that just because they can freely
download or install some software that they use at home and it runs OK
at work without complaining, that this doesn't necessarily mean it's
legal?  

I have seen a lot of software out there that is free for personal home
use but requires a paid license to be legal in a business environment.  
There also used to be some personal software licenses that explicitly
granted the user the right to use the same software on both his home and
business workstations; but how is the company, if asked, able to prove
in such cases that the software usage is legit and covered by a license
in home-possession of a user acting within the scope of his personal
license? And what if by some oversight that software fails to get
deleted from the office workstation when that user leaves the company
and takes his license with him?

I suspect the Linux case may not be 100% clear either.  I don't know of
any specific cases with zLinux, but can one for certain rule out the
possibility that one might install without restriction an RPM that adds
a software repository, but that some RPMs within that repository might
in fact be use-restricted in some way?  I'm pretty sure that in the case
of Fedora Linux there are some packages that have migrated out of the
main Fedora repositories over the years into other repositories
precisely because of licensing issues; yet adding those other
repositories without concern for those distinctions is a common accepted
practice for many users.  And, when installing packages from a
collection of repositories, how carefully does one even note which
repository is the source?
Joel C. Ewing, Bentonville, AR

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)


Tom Marchant wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:53:59 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

Not everyone on IBM-Main has access to a zLinux partition. Not everyone is able 
to use open source software.


True enough. But at this jolly moment in the history of our craft, methinks any mainframe operation which doesn't have 
such access is in a tailspin.



IBM made the mistake creating a file containing MVS documentation that couldn't 
be used by their customers who are on Windoze machines and who are not able to 
install any software on them.


The objective reality seems to be that one IBM employee made a trivial mistake which wouldn't have stopped a 15-year-old 
for three minutes
thusly setting off a week-long root cause analysis symposium among mature programmers with a few thousand years of 
collective experience.


I think it's indicative of something like "information technology managerial practices are dangerously and senselessly 
outdated", and maybe that each IBM mainframe customer needs a z/Linux LPAR if they want to stay in business.


--
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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Tony Harminc

On 20 September 2016 at 12:18, Alan Young  wrote:

> This is correct. 7zip is not the problem. The problem is the end user's
> unzip application. The zip specification has been extended over time to
> support additional compression methods. See
> https://support.pkware.com/display/PKZIP/APPNOTE and
> https://pkware.cachefly.net/webdocs/casestudies/APPNOTE.TXT.  Section
> 4.4.3.2 has a quick summary of the feature versions. The current PKzip
> program will unzip the doc file created by 7zip.

This would all be fine if the file in question was a ZIP file.
According to my reading of even the latest version of the APPNOTE.TXT
file, IBM's file does not meet the specs for a ZIP file. In
particular, a required signature element is missing. Whether or not a
particular commercial product from PKWARE will decode this file misses
the point. It's not a question of new compression types; the entire
file wrapper is plain wrong.

Tony H.

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Tom Marchant

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:53:59 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

>If the gang were using z/Linux regularly and had achieved familiarity, this 
>whole teapot tempest could never have
>arisen. Get to know that weird LPAR you keep around.

You seem to be saying that the fault is in the users.

Not everyone on IBM-Main has access to a zLinux partition. Not everyone is able 
to use open source software.

IBM made the mistake creating a file containing MVS documentation that couldn't 
be used by their customers who are on Windoze machines and who are not able to 
install any software on them.

>> It may be true that historically we had a lot more latitude than we do today.
>
>"The commander in the field is not bound by the whims of the sovereign." Sun 
>Dze, _Art of War_

Maybe so, but that has nothing to do with the present situation.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

This discussion has not quite devolved into a full-fledged snarkfest,

As Snarker in Chief, I feel obliged to reply and want to say I Feel Your Pain :)

but I feel somewhat wounded by an earlier post dismissing us z-whiners for
having lost our lust for digital adventure. Here is what we are: grownups
working for companies large or small that are motivated by their own long-term
interests.

And capable of working diligently against their own interests with a flair and
a passion for years at a time.

It takes only one software-piracy lawsuit to devour far more than our own
contribution to the bottom line. We have to live by rules that may or may not
be intended to protect us. The penalty for violating corporate policy can be
severe in the extreme.

Using without altering or redistributing open source licensed under standard licenses (GNU/BSD-2/Apache/IBM Common, etc)
is never software piracy.

Downloading a compiled "free" piece of software from random vendors is legally dicey. Installing an RPM on z/Linux is
not at all dicey.

What we are not: sophomores hunched over a personal computer in our parents'
basement, where we're free to do whatever we want as long we don't get grounded
for missing curfew.

If Mr/Ms Manager wants these creaking, aging software metaphors to keep running in the 21st century, Mr/Ms Manager
deuced well
better embrace a fluid Open Source Software culture. It's not just me telling you this: IBM has been gently trying to
wean the Glass House
from the idea that vendors and/or IBM will meet their every need. Big, blue, corporate IBM has been steering you for
about 20 years towards

Open Source Software. Because Offerings are being "stabilized" and Staff are
being Reduced. Mene, mene, tekel upharsin :)

If the gang were using z/Linux regularly and had achieved familiarity, this whole teapot tempest could never have
arisen. Get to know that weird LPAR you keep around.

It may be true that historically we had a lot more latitude than we do today.

"The commander in the field is not bound by the whims of the sovereign." Sun
Dze, _Art of War_

, but then is not now. And BTW Dilbert is real. Batman is imaginary. Just look
around your office to see the difference.

My basement is my office and is largely imaginary. VPNs provide what reality
there is!

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Alan Young


Paul Gilmartin wrote:


Thanks for your quick action.  A few thoughts:

o "Admits" is a slightly biased word.  7-Zip is not the problem.  By experiment 
(a
  scientific sample of one test case) it works fine if one chooses the right 
options.

  


This is correct. 7zip is not the problem. The problem is the end user's 
unzip application. The zip specification has been extended over time to 
support additional compression methods. See 
https://support.pkware.com/display/PKZIP/APPNOTE and 
https://pkware.cachefly.net/webdocs/casestudies/APPNOTE.TXT.  Section 
4.4.3.2 has a quick summary of the feature versions. The current PKzip 
program will unzip the doc file created by 7zip. There is also a free 
windows PKunzip client that will unzip it. Winzip 18 will not unzip it. 
YMMV.


Alan

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Jesse 1 Robinson

This discussion has not quite devolved into a full-fledged snarkfest, but I 
feel somewhat wounded by an earlier post dismissing us z-whiners for having 
lost our lust for digital adventure. Here is what we are: grownups working for 
companies large or small that are motivated by their own long-term interests. 
It takes only one software-piracy lawsuit to devour far more than our own 
contribution to the bottom line. We have to live by rules that may or may not 
be intended to protect us. The penalty for violating corporate policy can be 
severe in the extreme.

What we are not: sophomores hunched over a personal computer in our parents' 
basement, where we're free to do whatever we want as long we don't get grounded 
for missing curfew. What the PFK can get away with in his private world has no 
bearing on how we are obliged to solve business problems at the behest and 
pleasure of real business owners. 

It may be true that historically we had a lot more latitude than we do today. I 
lament the good ol days as much as the next person, but then is not now. And 
BTW Dilbert is real. Batman is imaginary. Just look around your office to see 
the difference. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Susan Shumway
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 5:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 
manuals)

Thanks, all, for the further enlightening input. As you can see from Kevin's 
response clipped below, something nefarious did indeed befall the 4949 zip 
package somewhere along the way. He's investigating and will get it resolved as 
soon as possible.

In the meantime, the zip of indexed PDFs will post sometime today, so you can 
use that instead. We'll alert you when it's available.

On 09/20/16 8:19 AM, Kevin Minerley wrote:
> Tony:
>
> I stand corrected.  I only checked the unzip with 7-zip as I've been doing 
> for years so it worked for me and I, wronglyk, "assumed" it was working as 
> usual; however, it appears, the manufacturing process changed.  I am trying 
> to find out why and how and see if we can get another more "standard" zip put 
> up on IBM Publications Center.
>
> It will take some time as I don't own that end of the process and it's been a 
> "black box" for years.
>
> Kevin Minerley
> zOS, zVM, zVSE Softcopy CKIT/PKIT architect
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z/OS Product Documentation Lead
IBM Poughkeepsie
chale...@us.ibm.com

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 08:28:24 -0500, Kevin Minerley wrote:

>The packager admits to using 7-zip (yes, we all figured that out).
>
>Someone had suggested a "finger check" -- bingo.   
>
>I've asked the to repackage and test it in Windows before uploading the 
>replacement.
> 
Thanks for your quick action.  A few thoughts:

o "Admits" is a slightly biased word.  7-Zip is not the problem.  By experiment 
(a
  scientific sample of one test case) it works fine if one chooses the right 
options.

o A visual inspection of the 7-Zip display of the generated archive should show
  no compression methods other than "stored" and "deflated".

o For my experiment I skimmed the 7-Zip doc.  It mentions a command line
  interface.  That should imply that it's scriptable.  A script makes the 
process
  more repeatable, even if it's only a copy-and-paste from instructions on
  the screen.

o Test (also) on a platform other than Windows.  It eliminates one more bias.
  (Perhaps "jar" on z/OS 2.2 was grandstanding, but I chose tne most alien
  test environment available.)  Likewise, if the human resource is available,
  the tester should be a person other than the packager.

Thanks again,
gil

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Kevin Minerley

The packager admits to using 7-zip (yes, we all figured that out).

Someone had suggested a "finger check" -- bingo.   

I've asked the to repackage and test it in Windows before uploading the 
replacement.

Kevin Minerley
zOS, zVM, and zVSE Softcopy CKIT/PKIT architect

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Susan Shumway

Thanks, all, for the further enlightening input. As you can see from 
Kevin's response clipped below, something nefarious did indeed befall 
the 4949 zip package somewhere along the way. He's investigating and 
will get it resolved as soon as possible.


In the meantime, the zip of indexed PDFs will post sometime today, so 
you can use that instead. We'll alert you when it's available.


On 09/20/16 8:19 AM, Kevin Minerley wrote:

Tony:

I stand corrected.  I only checked the unzip with 7-zip as I've been doing for years so it worked 
for me and I, wronglyk, "assumed" it was working as usual; however, it appears, the 
manufacturing process changed.  I am trying to find out why and how and see if we can get another 
more "standard" zip put up on IBM Publications Center.

It will take some time as I don't own that end of the process and it's been a "black 
box" for years.

Kevin Minerley
zOS, zVM, zVSE Softcopy CKIT/PKIT architect

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--
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z/OS Product Documentation Lead
IBM Poughkeepsie
chale...@us.ibm.com

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)


Tom Marchant wrote:
You missed an important point. Many of us are running on corporate Windoze machines, and some are not able or 
permitted to install anything that is not approved by corporate. 


1. z/Linux
2. Kick your manager in the butt and explain that Dilbert is a fictional 
character :)

"Twilight of the mainframe"? That idea is no more true today than it was 30 years ago. 


It's twilight because there just isn't the creative ferment there anymore, nor 
the critical mass.


They still run, they're still useful, but "the glory has departed", Ichabod :)

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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Kevin Minerley

Tony:

I stand corrected.  I only checked the unzip with 7-zip as I've been doing for 
years so it worked for me and I, wronglyk, "assumed" it was working as usual; 
however, it appears, the manufacturing process changed.  I am trying to find 
out why and how and see if we can get another more "standard" zip put up on IBM 
Publications Center.

It will take some time as I don't own that end of the process and it's been a 
"black box" for years.

Kevin Minerley
zOS, zVM, zVSE Softcopy CKIT/PKIT architect

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-20 Thread Tom Marchant

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 21:52:18 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

>So I googled "7zip open source" and found there was an open source 7zip 
>decoder.

You missed an important point. Many of us are running on corporate Windoze 
machines, 
and some are not able or permitted to install anything that is not approved by 
corporate.

>The take-away from the tempest is that familiarity with open source, finding 
>it, downloading it, building it, installing
>it, and even authoring it,
>is the salvation of the data center career in this era of the Twilight of the 
>Mainframe.

"Twilight of the mainframe"? 

That idea is no more true today than it was 30 years ago.

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)


Paul Gilmartin wrote:


Ah, you weren't following the flame wars on Usenet in the era when
JPEG was displacing GIFf.



No, before that time I had already burned out proving to the other 8800 persons on USENET that Forth was going to 
surpass the C language.


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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 20:03:21 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:
>
>So methinks the question really is, "How long will it take the z/OS community 
>to recover from this
>*shocking* episode that wouldn't spawn more than one or two yawning and 
>sarcastic emails
>on an open systems mailing list?"
> 
Ah, you weren't following the flame wars on Usenet in the era when
JPEG was displacing GIFf.

-- gil

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)


Edward Finnell wrote:

How hard would it be to ask Would you prefer .7Z or .zip? Or auto-detect. I
  can bumble in the jungle but this is just ludicrous.


Well, it's amusing, bless IBM's pointy little head, but in this election year, you've got a lot of competition to push 
past in order to grab the ludicrous ring :)


Anyway, I downloaded the manual set, noticed I couldn't unzip it, and by the 
time I clicked back into my mail reader,
someone on this very list had said, "7zip".

So I googled "7zip open source" and found there was an open source 7zip decoder.

So I scp'ed the archive to my OpenBSD machine, found the 7zip decoder conveniently already installed (some other package 
I had
intentionally installed had a prereq for 7zip so magically it was added without me noticing), and unpacked the archive 
successfully.


This all took 15 minutes including the download.

The take-away from the tempest is that familiarity with open source, finding it, downloading it, building it, installing 
it, and even authoring it,

is the salvation of the data center career in this era of the Twilight of the 
Mainframe.

--
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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Edward Finnell

How hard would it be to ask Would you prefer .7Z or .zip? Or auto-detect. I 
 can bumble in the jungle but this is just ludicrous.
 
 
In a message dated 9/19/2016 9:03:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
j...@well.com writes:

You guys  bumble around the open source world occasionally feel momentarily 
 helpless.



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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)


Paul Gilmartin wrote:

I wonder how long it will take IBM Docs to recover from such a
simple finger fumble?


I bumble around z/OS and occasionally feel momentarily helpless.

You guys bumble around the open source world occasionally feel momentarily 
helpless.

It's part of the job description for "R337 9R0GR4MM3R" :)

So methinks the question really is, "How long will it take the z/OS community 
to recover from this
*shocking* episode that wouldn't spawn more than one or two yawning and 
sarcastic emails
on an open systems mailing list?"

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 15:32:12 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Gee, it seems pretty obvious to me:
>
>- IBM intends to distribute as .zip
>- IBM uses the 7-Zip utility to make the intended .zip
>- Someone at IBM by mistake clicked 7z instead of zip as the desired 
>compression method in the 7-zip utility
>
>No?
>
Yes.  This seems very plausible to me.  I took the extracted archive
and re-archived it with 7-Zip (the interface is unfamiliar to me, but I
mastered it.)  I clicked zip and deflate.  The archive is 1% smaller
than that produced by Info-zip.  I extracted it again with z/OS 2.2
"jar".  (It took a l-o-o-o-ng time again.)  That extracted archive
again compared as identical to the one extracted previously.

I wonder how long it will take IBM Docs to recover from such a
simple finger fumble?

But I believe 7-Zip would have created an archive with suffix .7z.
Did someone foolishly rename it, blithely ignoring Windows' warning
that "You really shouldn't want to do that; it can make Bad Things
happen"?  And someone further compounded the mess by associating
".zip" with 7-Zip, concealing the error.

Should I at least write to the 7-Zip guys and say it would be a courtesy
to the supplier and the customer to issue a prompt, "This appears not
to be a .zip archive.  Do you wish to continue?"

-- gil

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread John Laubenheimer

Not IBM's use of 7-Zip, but compressing and distributing the file in 7z format 
as opposed to zip (and the LZMA:24 BCJ compression format). WINDOWS nicely 
expands zip files, but requires an external utility to expand 7z files. 7-Zip 
can generate zip files; you just need to select that option.
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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Lester, Bob

.sorry, sounds like IBMs use of 7-Zip that is the problem

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: Lester, Bob 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 6:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: RE: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals) [ 
EXTERNAL ]

Hi All,

 Just FYI, we've also been a bit challenged by the change to 7-Zip.  IMHO, 
bad packaging from the 7-zip folks.

 On the other point, re: shareware - there are some *notable* exceptions.  
"The free for commercial use - but pay for support" model is something I agree 
with.

 Convincing management is a another battle.  I enjoy what (few) successes 
I've had.

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 5:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals) [ 
EXTERNAL ]

Focusing on 'permitted in many corporate environments'. I know nothing about 
7-Zip, but some share-ware products state that--while freely available for 
individual use--they are prohibited for commercial/business use. That 
possibility is sufficient for many corporations to disallow 'unapproved' 
products on employees' company-issued machines. Share-ware may get approved, 
but the red tape may bowl you over.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Laubenheimer
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 12:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 
manuals)

Previous releases (up to k4t4949a) would unzip using Windows Explorer/File 
Manager, and did not require the user to install the 7-Zip utility, which is 
not permitted in many corporate environments. Is there some reason that the 
standard PKZIP format can no longer be used? The last release of the z/OS 1.13 
manuals was much larger, and still did not require 7-Zip. I tested this myself; 
the .zip file is only about 12 percent larger than the .7z file. In any event, 
the download should use a suffix of .7z (and NOT .zip) if IBM is truly 
delivering the file in 7-Zip format.

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Lester, Bob

Hi All,

 Just FYI, we've also been a bit challenged by the change to 7-Zip.  IMHO, 
bad packaging from the 7-zip folks.

 On the other point, re: shareware - there are some *notable* exceptions.  
"The free for commercial use - but pay for support" model is something I agree 
with.

 Convincing management is a another battle.  I enjoy what (few) successes 
I've had.

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 5:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals) [ 
EXTERNAL ]

Focusing on 'permitted in many corporate environments'. I know nothing about 
7-Zip, but some share-ware products state that--while freely available for 
individual use--they are prohibited for commercial/business use. That 
possibility is sufficient for many corporations to disallow 'unapproved' 
products on employees' company-issued machines. Share-ware may get approved, 
but the red tape may bowl you over.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Laubenheimer
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 12:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 
manuals)

Previous releases (up to k4t4949a) would unzip using Windows Explorer/File 
Manager, and did not require the user to install the 7-Zip utility, which is 
not permitted in many corporate environments. Is there some reason that the 
standard PKZIP format can no longer be used? The last release of the z/OS 1.13 
manuals was much larger, and still did not require 7-Zip. I tested this myself; 
the .zip file is only about 12 percent larger than the .7z file. In any event, 
the download should use a suffix of .7z (and NOT .zip) if IBM is truly 
delivering the file in 7-Zip format.


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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Jesse 1 Robinson

Focusing on 'permitted in many corporate environments'. I know nothing about 
7-Zip, but some share-ware products state that--while freely available for 
individual use--they are prohibited for commercial/business use. That 
possibility is sufficient for many corporations to disallow 'unapproved' 
products on employees' company-issued machines. Share-ware may get approved, 
but the red tape may bowl you over.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Laubenheimer
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 12:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 
manuals)

Previous releases (up to k4t4949a) would unzip using Windows Explorer/File 
Manager, and did not require the user to install the 7-Zip utility, which is 
not permitted in many corporate environments. Is there some reason that the 
standard PKZIP format can no longer be used? The last release of the z/OS 1.13 
manuals was much larger, and still did not require 7-Zip. I tested this myself; 
the .zip file is only about 12 percent larger than the .7z file. In any event, 
the download should use a suffix of .7z (and NOT .zip) if IBM is truly 
delivering the file in 7-Zip format.


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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 13:31:01 -0500, Kevin Minerley wrote:

>Unfortunately, this is working as designed.  If indeed it's the sk4t-4949-xx 
>deliverable, it is large.  As a matter of fact, were it to be be put on a 
>dual-layer DVD it wouldn't fit (at least in this pass).  Most modern zip 
>utilities work against it.  Personally, I use 7-zip but when manufactured it's 
>the same zip utilities we have been using since the days of physical media.
>
"Unfortunately", indeed.  This strikes me as a stonewall.

"modern zip utilities"  no.  Don't rely on your "Personal..." favorite.  Look 
at the standard.
As I said at greater length before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_(file_format)#Document_Container_File_-_Part_1

ISO/IEC 21320-1:2015 requires the following main restrictions of the ZIP file 
format:
Files in ZIP archives may only be stored uncompressed, or using the 
"deflate" compression
(i.e. compression method may contain the value "0" - stored or "8" - 
deflated).

(Sorry for the wikipedia indirection, but the entire ISO/IEC 21320-1:2015 
requires $$.)

I have kept c2784301.zip and k4t49497.zip.  Neither of those uses any format 
other
than "stored" or "deflated".  Something has changed "since the days of physical 
media".
Perhaps someone chose different options to 7-zip as Charles conjectured.  
Perhaps
the supplier changed the defaults.  7-zip tells me that k4t4949b.zip uses at 
least
methods LZMA:24 and BCJLZMA:24, contrary to ISO/IEC 21320-1:2015.  Something
has changed.

Here, I'll call on Postel's Law (I often disagree with it, but here it's 
appropriate):
Validate it with the "jar" utility that IBM distributes.

I extracted k4t4949b".zip" with 7-zip and rearchived it with Info-zip.
The result:

1118616064 Sep 19 11:34 k4t4949b.zip
1228358648 Sep 19 13:12 SK.zip  (re-zipped with Info-zip)

so: rxx "say  1118616064 / 1228358648 "
  0.910659168

Incompatibility and standards deviation are too high a price to pay for
a (roughly) 9% saving in space.

I extracted the re-zipped archive with z/OS 2.2 jar (it took a l-o-o-o-ng
time, but it's a test).  And the re-zipped and re-extracted files compared
exactly with those extracted by 7-zip.

Finally, as a couple others have said, change the filename extension to
".7z" since it's not a .zip file.  This can be done overnight; it's not
necessary to wait three months or so for the  next full refresh.

-- gil

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Charles Mills

Gee, it seems pretty obvious to me:

- IBM intends to distribute as .zip
- IBM uses the 7-Zip utility to make the intended .zip
- Someone at IBM by mistake clicked 7z instead of zip as the desired 
compression method in the 7-zip utility

No?

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

On 19 September 2016 at 14:31, Kevin Minerley <k60ek...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, this is working as designed.  If indeed it's the 
> sk4t-4949-xx deliverable, it is large.  As a matter of fact, were it to be be 
> put on a dual-layer DVD it wouldn't fit (at least in this pass).

The file as I just downloaded it is about 1GB (1,118,616.064 bytes according to 
Windows). This would fit comfortably on even a single-layer DVD. It isn't even 
all that much bigger than a CD. Maybe IBM has smaller DVDs than most of us...

But in any case I have a good deal of trouble seeing why this is relevant.

> Most modern zip utilities work against it.  Personally, I use 7-zip 
> but when manufactured it's the same zip utilities we have been using since 
> the days of physical media.

Really? I think of Winzip as *the* standard commercial Windows-based zip 
utility, and it doesn't accept it. Neither does the Windows built-in zip 
handling in Windows explorer. Neither does the java command. And the reason is 
clear: it's not a zip file. The first two bytes of the file are X'377ABCAF' or 
ASCII "7z..". The zip file specification 
https://support.pkware.com/display/PKZIP/Application+Note+Archives
requires that a zip file start with a header of X'504B0304' or ASCII "PK..", no 
matter what the compression method within the file.

So opening this file pretty much requires that 7-zip or some other compatible 
decompressor be installed. If that's really what IBM intends, then the file 
should not be marked as .zip .

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Tony Harminc

On 19 September 2016 at 14:31, Kevin Minerley  wrote:
> Unfortunately, this is working as designed.  If indeed it's the sk4t-4949-xx 
> deliverable, it is large.  As a matter of fact, were
> it to be be put on a dual-layer DVD it wouldn't fit (at least in this pass).

The file as I just downloaded it is about 1GB (1,118,616.064 bytes
according to Windows). This would fit comfortably on even a
single-layer DVD. It isn't even all that much bigger than a CD. Maybe
IBM has smaller DVDs than most of us...

But in any case I have a good deal of trouble seeing why this is relevant.

> Most modern zip utilities work against it.  Personally, I use 7-zip but when 
> manufactured it's the same zip utilities we have
> been using since the days of physical media.

Really? I think of Winzip as *the* standard commercial Windows-based
zip utility, and it doesn't accept it. Neither does the Windows
built-in zip handling in Windows explorer. Neither does the java
command. And the reason is clear: it's not a zip file. The first two
bytes of the file are X'377ABCAF' or ASCII "7z..". The zip file
specification
https://support.pkware.com/display/PKZIP/Application+Note+Archives
requires that a zip file start with a header of X'504B0304' or ASCII
"PK..", no matter what the compression method within the file.

So opening this file pretty much requires that 7-zip or some other
compatible decompressor be installed. If that's really what IBM
intends, then the file should not be marked as .zip .

Tony H.

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Farley, Peter x23353

For those who might know what the output of the 7z command-line tool means, the 
first thing reported by 7z for that IBM archive is this:

7-Zip [64] 9.20  Copyright (c) 1999-2010 Igor Pavlov  2010-11-18

Listing archive: zOS-V2R2-Collection-k4t4949b.zip

--
Path = zOS-V2R2-Collection-k4t4949b.zip
Type = 7z
Method = LZMA BCJ
Solid = +
Blocks = 2
Physical Size = 1118615712
Headers Size = 10765

Note the type says it is "7z", not "zip".  I used the same command on a file I 
know for a fact is in zip format:

7-Zip [64] 9.20  Copyright (c) 1999-2010 Igor Pavlov  2010-11-18

Listing archive: .ZIP

--
Path = .ZIP
Type = zip
Physical Size = 130303

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gord Tomlin
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 4:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)


You can use 7-Zip to show the archive type, for example:

7z l -slt F:\winzip\example.zip

You might want to redirect the command output, since you are dealing with a 
large archive, and the command output will likely be large.

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread Gord Tomlin


On 2016-09-19 15:15, John Laubenheimer wrote:

Previous releases (up to k4t4949a) would unzip using Windows Explorer/File 
Manager, and did not require the user to install the 7-Zip utility, which is 
not permitted in many corporate environments. Is there some reason that the 
standard PKZIP format can no longer be used? The last release of the z/OS 1.13 
manuals was much larger, and still did not require 7-Zip. I tested this myself; 
the .zip file is only about 12 percent larger than the .7z file. In any event, 
the download should use a suffix of .7z (and NOT .zip) if IBM is truly 
delivering the file in 7-Zip format.


From http://www.7-zip.org/ :

"Supported formats:

Packing / unpacking: 7z, XZ, BZIP2, GZIP, TAR, ZIP and WIM
Unpacking only: AR, ARJ, CAB, CHM, CPIO, CramFS, DMG, EXT, FAT, 
GPT, HFS, IHEX, ISO, LZH, LZMA, MBR, MSI, NSIS, NTFS, QCOW2, RAR, RPM, 
SquashFS, UDF, UEFI, VDI, VHD, VMDK, WIM, XAR and Z."


"Compression ratio results are very dependent upon the data used for the 
tests. Usually, 7-Zip compresses to 7z format 30-70% better than to zip 
format. And 7-Zip compresses to zip format 2-10% better than most of 
other zip compatible programs."


7-Zip *can* create zip format archives. I use it to do so on a regular 
basis. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using 7-Zip to create zip 
archives. If IBM happened to use 7z format instead of zip format, and 
named the resulting file something.zip, then they made a mistake.


You can use 7-Zip to show the archive type, for example:

7z l -slt F:\winzip\example.zip

You might want to redirect the command output, since you are dealing 
with a large archive, and the command output will likely be large.


--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

2016-09-19 Thread John Laubenheimer

Previous releases (up to k4t4949a) would unzip using Windows Explorer/File 
Manager, and did not require the user to install the 7-Zip utility, which is 
not permitted in many corporate environments. Is there some reason that the 
standard PKZIP format can no longer be used? The last release of the z/OS 1.13 
manuals was much larger, and still did not require 7-Zip. I tested this myself; 
the .zip file is only about 12 percent larger than the .7z file. In any event, 
the download should use a suffix of .7z (and NOT .zip) if IBM is truly 
delivering the file in 7-Zip format.

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)

And if you're paranoid and want to build it from source and are uncomfortable downloading an already-built 7z extractor 
to unpack the source itself,
grab an old laptop, install OpenBSD 6.0, build the 7z port from source and unpack it with that. 
(/usr/ports/archivers/p7zip).


All it costs is your time, and it's educational about the world we're living in, as the decommissions multiply, the 
vendors retreat and we are left to our own devices and to open source!


Jack J. Woehr wrote:

Paul Gilmartin wrote:

508 $ unzip -vv k4t4949b.zip
Archive:  k4t4949b.zip
   End-of-central-directory signature not found


Embrace the brave new world of open source!

http://www.7-zip.org/download.html




--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)


Paul Gilmartin wrote:

508 $ unzip -vv k4t4949b.zip
Archive:  k4t4949b.zip
   End-of-central-directory signature not found


Embrace the brave new world of open source!

http://www.7-zip.org/download.html

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: k4t4949b (September 2016 refresh of the z/OS 2.2 manuals)