subject:"\[MBZ\] Is it dead\?"

Now you're confusing your wars, you mean Hitler and Tojo.

You left yourself open before, we used nukes against an aggressor country, 
thats fair game, the Japanese knew retribution was coming.
Syria is a different ball of wax though I'm not completely convinced yet about 
who exactly unleashed the chemical weapons. Maybe I'm just jaded but I don't 
trust anything I see on television. Sure it looks like those people had been 
gassed but I can set that up in my backyard in 2 hours...

-Curt


Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 21:32:20 -0700
From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
    CABHyH=bxl-hxwkqxqfikjpv7o_jhggqvrbjpyimaq23axvz...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:
   fortunately
 we were able to stop the kaiser from enslaving us, or, oh boy, think how
 stupid we'd be looking right now wearing those helmets with those points on
 them while living in a wurst eating servitude!

 be offended by anyone who might disagree with you.  accuse them of trying
 to enslave you.  feign the moral high ground and then kill, kill, kill!



I have absolutely no problem claiming the moral high ground over
Hitler and Stalin.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

Chinese didn't seem so thrilled with Japanese occupation...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 01:02:00 -0400
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
    caciok3v9asmmgnuz4hdunzpwu_fufmjo14phbodlkpnvds8...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

i believe you started by expressing how deeply offensive you found the
sentiment that japanese civilians ought not have been killed in large
number by nuclear attack.  hitler was already dead and your country
undertook this in league with stalin. so what does talk of hitler and
stalin have to do with this?   is it just a matter of you liking to spout
cliches to justify anything or are you genuinely this confused?

and you fail to answer my question as to whether you seriously feel you'd
have been enslaved today but for the nuking of japanese civilians?

do you fear they'd force feed you sushi and would you not like it if they
did?

i'm going to sleep.  should ali baba come enslave me overnight and i not be
heard from again, please accept my apologies for doubting your wisdom and
accept that i concede to your correct position
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread WILTON

That's right - Buck.  Thanks.  Who was Jack Ripper?  Was that the Col. Nut 
barricaded in his office?

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

Frying chickens in the barnyard!

George C. Scott was General Buck Turgidson.

Dan and sug - be sure to say your prayers.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 8, 2013, at 10:49 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

Yes, I understand that; I'm afraid, though, that many think/thought that
a lot of that satire was depicting real life, or maybe, didn't get the
joke(s).  Because I was living it for real every day (overall for nearly
fourteen years), it was a bit hard on me to know that some people
think/thought that was the way it really was.  'Don't mean to imply any
discredit to the movie - it was/is, after all, a MOVIE - entertainment -
not a completely accurate representation of the real flight and actions
that I lived daily.  Isn't that the way of most any movie, play, etc.,
for one who is intimately familiar with the story in real life?

BTW, one of the best scenes for me was when George C. Scott (was it Gen.
Jack Ripper?) was enthusiastically telling the President how the bomber
could get right on down REAL LOW, beneath the radar - stuff we
practiced on every training mission.

I've enjoyed the movie several times, too.  When I get a chance, I'll see
it again.

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

Sheesh Wilton now you've done it. I wrote not one, not two but THREE
papers on that movie in college.

No joke, I went to film school remember. I actually saw the movie in
class, I can't remember if it was Film History or something else. I did
write a paper on it for Film History, another was a technical dissection
for Lighting, I can't remember the third other than I did it, maybe
something on the use of black and white as an artistic decision...

Anyway don't for one second thing any of the dialog in that movie was
written by accident. If its stilted its stilted on purpose...

-Curt

Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 18:49:16 -0400
From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID: 8F57E18D42004311AD58ADCEDC72B4D8@wiltonPC
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original

Yep, Slim (T. J.) did mention the special items, didn't he?

No such inventory would ever have occurred in flight on a real such
mission.
Example of writer trying to insert another joke.

BTW, y'all do realize, don't you that most (almost ALL) of the stuff in
that
movie was BS from somebody's imagination. For example, pilot never read
any
checklist for bombing or its prep and sure as Hell wouldn't have gone
into
the bomb bay for ANYTHING - if anybody did, it would have been the
navigator
or radar-navigator/bombardier. All of the in flight dialog was very
stilted, imaginary BS - not like the real world at all.

Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Dan Penoff

Yes, Jack Ripper was the precious bodily fluids guy.

Dan who does not want a mine shaft gap

On Sep 9, 2013, at 9:46 AM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 That's right - Buck.  Thanks.  Who was Jack Ripper?  Was that the Col. Nut 
 barricaded in his office?
 
 Wilt
 
 - Original Message - From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 
 
 Frying chickens in the barnyard!
 
 George C. Scott was General Buck Turgidson.
 
 Dan and sug - be sure to say your prayers.
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Sep 8, 2013, at 10:49 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I understand that; I'm afraid, though, that many think/thought that
 a lot of that satire was depicting real life, or maybe, didn't get the
 joke(s).  Because I was living it for real every day (overall for nearly
 fourteen years), it was a bit hard on me to know that some people
 think/thought that was the way it really was.  'Don't mean to imply any
 discredit to the movie - it was/is, after all, a MOVIE - entertainment -
 not a completely accurate representation of the real flight and actions
 that I lived daily.  Isn't that the way of most any movie, play, etc.,
 for one who is intimately familiar with the story in real life?
 
 BTW, one of the best scenes for me was when George C. Scott (was it Gen.
 Jack Ripper?) was enthusiastically telling the President how the bomber
 could get right on down REAL LOW, beneath the radar - stuff we
 practiced on every training mission.
 
 I've enjoyed the movie several times, too.  When I get a chance, I'll see
 it again.
 
 Wilton
 
 - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
 To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 9:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 
 
 Sheesh Wilton now you've done it. I wrote not one, not two but THREE
 papers on that movie in college.
 
 No joke, I went to film school remember. I actually saw the movie in
 class, I can't remember if it was Film History or something else. I did
 write a paper on it for Film History, another was a technical dissection
 for Lighting, I can't remember the third other than I did it, maybe
 something on the use of black and white as an artistic decision...
 
 Anyway don't for one second thing any of the dialog in that movie was
 written by accident. If its stilted its stilted on purpose...
 
 -Curt
 
 Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 18:49:16 -0400
 From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 Message-ID: 8F57E18D42004311AD58ADCEDC72B4D8@wiltonPC
 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
 reply-type=original
 
 Yep, Slim (T. J.) did mention the special items, didn't he?
 
 No such inventory would ever have occurred in flight on a real such
 mission.
 Example of writer trying to insert another joke.
 
 BTW, y'all do realize, don't you that most (almost ALL) of the stuff in
 that
 movie was BS from somebody's imagination. For example, pilot never read
 any
 checklist for bombing or its prep and sure as Hell wouldn't have gone
 into
 the bomb bay for ANYTHING - if anybody did, it would have been the
 navigator
 or radar-navigator/bombardier. All of the in flight dialog was very
 stilted, imaginary BS - not like the real world at all.
 
 Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Rick Knoble

On Sep 9, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Sure it looks like those people had been gassed but I can set that up in my 
 backyard in 2 hours...


Wag The Dog?

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

Too right, but these days anybody with a phone and a computer (maybe even just 
their phone) can make most of that happen...

I've been thinking about that movie a lot lately, surprised it hasn't been 
mentioned.


-Curt


Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 09:08:54 -0500
From: Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID: bay406-eas626fd8bc709562d84f0791dd...@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sep 9, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Sure it looks like those people had been gassed but I can set that up in my 
 backyard in 2 hours...


Wag The Dog?

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Craig

On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 07:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Too right, but these days anybody with a phone and a computer (maybe
 even just their phone) can make most of that happen...
 
 I've been thinking about that movie a lot lately, surprised it hasn't
 been mentioned.


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wag+the+dog

3. wag the dog

To start a war or military operation to divert negative politcal
attention away from yourself. Based on the movie of the same name, where
the President fabricates a fake war to take political pressure away from
a scandal. When Cater ordered Opertaion Eagle Claw he was playing wag the
dog, because he was a very unpopular and weak President and wanted to
seem like he handled it strongly.

It is suggested that Clinton wagged the dog by helping NATO bomb Kosovo
at the same time as the Lewinski scandal. This theory came about because
the film had just been released.

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Mitch Haley


Curt Raymond wrote:

Chinese didn't seem so thrilled with Japanese occupation...


I went to college with a girl whose Chinese born grandparents refused to
sit in a Toyota 40 years later.

On the subject of nuking Japanese cities, isn't it still commonly accepted that 
taking Japan and Okinawa inch by inch like giant versions of Iwo Jima would have 
been far bloodier than dropping a couple of low yield nukes?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

What was the alternative? We saw how difficult it was to take Iwo Jima and 
other pacific islands. The Japanese weren't about to just stop and lay down 
their arms.

We're talking about an Imperialist government that had proven it had zero 
regard for any of the peoples it enslaved. Thats not our theoretical 
enslavement, they really did roll into places like China and the Philippines 
and enslave them. If those innocent people that we dropped nukes on had said 
No don't do this to their own government we wouldn't have had to make our 
move. We had to convince the Japanese leadership that we had the biggest stick 
on the planet and they had two options: stop fighting and learn to place nice 
or die.

Witness what happened afterward, we went from big bad bully with the stick to 
Japan's best friend. We rebuilt the place and set them up to bypass us in 
manufacturing prowess, then bought everything they made...

Of course we apparently also taught them how to screw up the gravy train.

-Curt


Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 12:56:41 -0400
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
    caciok3thre-d6byj_etvj7rs-e4ufwuxdnkxtanchjmwhz2...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

my point is mainly that it is super suspicious that there is always this
story of an evil power intent on taking over the world to enslave
everyone unless we stop them.  it is the stuff of pro wrestling and
children's cartoons and it is nonsense.  combine this with our missionary
zeal to aggressively free those who are enslaved around the world and
we have become one of the greatest menaces to human life and liberty in the
history of the world.  i read an article just the other day that cites 8
million dead since WWII at the hands of the USA war machine. , i think the
american are finally starting to smarten up, albeit in small but growing
numbers, that joining the syrian civil war is not actually going to serve
to make the world safe for democracy  american imperialism ought not be
tolerated by the people and the warfare state needs to be dismantled.  to
much of the world, we are today that crazy enemy force and i believe our
survival as a nation depends on people opposing our behaving in the manner
that makes us such

i'd like you to recognize that opposition to massacre of civilian
populations as retribution for war crimes committed by unrelated members of
the same nation is not an unreasonable position,.  some of us do not
support this and some of us will not murderous military adventures around
the globe, both for moral and pragmatic reasons.  i suggest instead that
war is best avoided, even if you are the biggest kid on the block and can
do the lion's share of the killing
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Larry T

Actually we invaded Okinawa and the civilians had been so heavily 
propagandized to believe the USA would rape and murder every person they 
came upon that many threw themselves from cliffs -I think it was 
something over 1000 that did so.  There is video showing people doing 
this and it is very disturbing.   Also, the civilians in Japans - down 
to 6 year olds were being armed with sticks and grenades to use when the 
Americans arrived.  They estimated the US would lose 1 million or more 
men with 2-3 times that many Japanese killed.The use of nuclear 
weapons saved many lives - millions actually.


You are certainly right about Iwo Jima being a killing field for the US 
- the sand was like quicksand and the Japanese had pre-sighted all the 
landing areas so they had no trouble hitting American targets - also, 
the beach head was narrow as they had trouble moving off the beach so 
the US had a lot of soldiers in a small area which the Japanese shelled 
at will.I suspect the landing beaches on Japan itself would have 
been as bad or worse...


LarryT

On 9/9/2013 11:01 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:

Curt Raymond wrote:

Chinese didn't seem so thrilled with Japanese occupation...


I went to college with a girl whose Chinese born grandparents refused to
sit in a Toyota 40 years later.

On the subject of nuking Japanese cities, isn't it still commonly 
accepted that taking Japan and Okinawa inch by inch like giant 
versions of Iwo Jima would have been far bloodier than dropping a 
couple of low yield nukes?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Mountain Man

Mitch wrote:
 On the subject of nuking Japanese cities, isn't it still commonly accepted
 that taking Japan and Okinawa inch by inch like giant versions of Iwo Jima
 would have been far bloodier than dropping a couple of low yield nukes?


And isn't any acceptance of any type of argument of this sort more wag
the dog?  i.e. divert the argument to a stance you think you can win.
USA, no matter the argument for/against, has never been held to
account as the lone country on the planet for use of this most
terrible of terrible weapons.  Go ahead, wag the dog again.  btw, I
can accept any of the posited wag the dog argument supporting
Nagasake/Hiroshima, but...
Standard banned closure, omitted.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Dan Penoff

I believe that was the contention at the time, and given the circumstances and 
experiences up to that point, seems like a valid conclusion.

We have a friend who is Filipino that saw the Japanese rape and kill her mother 
and sister during their occupation of the Philippines during WW2. It goes 
without saying that she has very strong opinions about them as a people.

Dan

On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Curt Raymond wrote:
 Chinese didn't seem so thrilled with Japanese occupation...
 
 I went to college with a girl whose Chinese born grandparents refused to
 sit in a Toyota 40 years later.
 
 On the subject of nuking Japanese cities, isn't it still commonly accepted 
 that taking Japan and Okinawa inch by inch like giant versions of Iwo Jima 
 would have been far bloodier than dropping a couple of low yield nukes?
 
 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

and many are not so thrilled with USA occupation.  you'd figure maybe this
would give a 3rd party, say russia, the right to nuke baltimore?  you'd be
satisfied with that or do your principle only apply to other and not the
USA?

you don't address the point i make anyway.  it is absolutely pointless to
engage in this discussion as there is no actual discussion


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Chinese didn't seem so thrilled with Japanese occupation...

 -Curt


 Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 01:02:00 -0400
 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 Message-ID:
 caciok3v9asmmgnuz4hdunzpwu_fufmjo14phbodlkpnvds8...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 i believe you started by expressing how deeply offensive you found the
 sentiment that japanese civilians ought not have been killed in large
 number by nuclear attack.  hitler was already dead and your country
 undertook this in league with stalin. so what does talk of hitler and
 stalin have to do with this?   is it just a matter of you liking to spout
 cliches to justify anything or are you genuinely this confused?

 and you fail to answer my question as to whether you seriously feel you'd
 have been enslaved today but for the nuking of japanese civilians?

 do you fear they'd force feed you sushi and would you not like it if they
 did?

 i'm going to sleep.  should ali baba come enslave me overnight and i not be
 heard from again, please accept my apologies for doubting your wisdom and
 accept that i concede to your correct position
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread G Mann

Personally... I'm deeply troubled that the same folks who screamed Foul
!! , and have continued to, over the invasion of Iraq after apparently no
substantiated  proof of weapons of mass destruction held and used by
Saddam... are now withholding clear evidence there was chemical weapons
used are now demanding we become the police agency for the world of bad
actor nations.

I'm further troubled that the pictures used by Sec of State John anti war
in Vietnam Kerry in his press conference are quickly identified by the
professional photographer who took them.. in Iraq, in 2003, and they were
conveniently now claimed to be of Syrians and recent...
I am particularly troubled that, by admission in that same press
conference, Sec Kerry revealed the Saudi government offered to totally
fund the overthrow of Syria leadership.. in effect, hiring our military
for private use... vexing conflict of Constitutional use of military
anyone?

I am, however, joined by many others who smell something unclean about all
this.  Apparently, America is not quite as comatose as believed.  The phone
lines to congress are jammed.. people are marching in the streets...
worldwide.

Grant..


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Now you're confusing your wars, you mean Hitler and Tojo.

 You left yourself open before, we used nukes against an aggressor country,
 thats fair game, the Japanese knew retribution was coming.
 Syria is a different ball of wax though I'm not completely convinced yet
 about who exactly unleashed the chemical weapons. Maybe I'm just jaded but
 I don't trust anything I see on television. Sure it looks like those people
 had been gassed but I can set that up in my backyard in 2 hours...

 -Curt


 Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 21:32:20 -0700
 From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 Message-ID:
 CABHyH=bxl-hxwkqxqfikjpv7o_jhggqvrbjpyimaq23axvz...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:
fortunately
  we were able to stop the kaiser from enslaving us, or, oh boy, think how
  stupid we'd be looking right now wearing those helmets with those points
 on
  them while living in a wurst eating servitude!
 
  be offended by anyone who might disagree with you.  accuse them of trying
  to enslave you.  feign the moral high ground and then kill, kill, kill!
 


 I have absolutely no problem claiming the moral high ground over
 Hitler and Stalin.

 Alex
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Larry T

There are some theories that the chemical weapons were used by the 
terrorist / freedom fighters which they stole during an occupation of 
the current administrations military base. their intent was just what 
obama wants to do - have a super power help them win the rebellion...


As far as what kerry says - IMO he has been discredited many times as 
saying whatever he thinks will forward his political career. When caught 
in a lie he changes his story.


I also dislike seeing the US Military used when convenient.  We passed 
on many massacres without explanation  -- like the killing of many in 
Rwanda,


Unfortunately our leaders are politicians who are just men - with all 
the weaknesses and it appears they have motives driven by personal 
agendas meant to make themselves more powerful and more wealthy.


LarryT

On 9/9/2013 11:33 AM, G Mann wrote:

Personally... I'm deeply troubled that the same folks who screamed Foul
!! , and have continued to, over the invasion of Iraq after apparently no
substantiated  proof of weapons of mass destruction held and used by
Saddam... are now withholding clear evidence there was chemical weapons
used are now demanding we become the police agency for the world of bad
actor nations.

I'm further troubled that the pictures used by Sec of State John anti war
in Vietnam Kerry in his press conference are quickly identified by the
professional photographer who took them.. in Iraq, in 2003, and they were
conveniently now claimed to be of Syrians and recent...
I am particularly troubled that, by admission in that same press
conference, Sec Kerry revealed the Saudi government offered to totally
fund the overthrow of Syria leadership.. in effect, hiring our military
for private use... vexing conflict of Constitutional use of military
anyone?

I am, however, joined by many others who smell something unclean about all
this.  Apparently, America is not quite as comatose as believed.  The phone
lines to congress are jammed.. people are marching in the streets...
worldwide.

Grant..


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:


Now you're confusing your wars, you mean Hitler and Tojo.

You left yourself open before, we used nukes against an aggressor country,
thats fair game, the Japanese knew retribution was coming.
Syria is a different ball of wax though I'm not completely convinced yet
about who exactly unleashed the chemical weapons. Maybe I'm just jaded but
I don't trust anything I see on television. Sure it looks like those people
had been gassed but I can set that up in my backyard in 2 hours...

-Curt


Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 21:32:20 -0700
From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
 CABHyH=bxl-hxwkqxqfikjpv7o_jhggqvrbjpyimaq23axvz...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

   fortunately
we were able to stop the kaiser from enslaving us, or, oh boy, think how
stupid we'd be looking right now wearing those helmets with those points

on

them while living in a wurst eating servitude!

be offended by anyone who might disagree with you.  accuse them of trying
to enslave you.  feign the moral high ground and then kill, kill, kill!



I have absolutely no problem claiming the moral high ground over
Hitler and Stalin.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

i'm not really caught up on the particular issue, but rather on this whole
messianic complex that we must constantly be  liberating people from
enslavement by evil forces trying to take over the world.  it is stupid
and mendacious  and it has gotten me cynical about all war.

as to the question of whether i can massacre civilians to reduce casualties
between combatants, i'm inclined to say no but i'd really rather be
addressing not fighting the war to begin with.

by invading occupying places such as iraq and afghanistan, all you do,
other than making certain select special interests richer, is spend a ton
of money you don't have to enrage the locals against you and erode your
credibility in the eyes of the world.  the people who push for these
programs justify them by using this nonsensical rhetoric and i'd like to
cut them off right there!


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 What was the alternative? We saw how difficult it was to take Iwo Jima and
 other pacific islands. The Japanese weren't about to just stop and lay down
 their arms.

 We're talking about an Imperialist government that had proven it had zero
 regard for any of the peoples it enslaved. Thats not our theoretical
 enslavement, they really did roll into places like China and the
 Philippines and enslave them. If those innocent people that we dropped
 nukes on had said No don't do this to their own government we wouldn't
 have had to make our move. We had to convince the Japanese leadership that
 we had the biggest stick on the planet and they had two options: stop
 fighting and learn to place nice or die.

 Witness what happened afterward, we went from big bad bully with the stick
 to Japan's best friend. We rebuilt the place and set them up to bypass us
 in manufacturing prowess, then bought everything they made...

 Of course we apparently also taught them how to screw up the gravy train.

 -Curt


 Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 12:56:41 -0400
 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 Message-ID:
 caciok3thre-d6byj_etvj7rs-e4ufwuxdnkxtanchjmwhz2...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 my point is mainly that it is super suspicious that there is always this
 story of an evil power intent on taking over the world to enslave
 everyone unless we stop them.  it is the stuff of pro wrestling and
 children's cartoons and it is nonsense.  combine this with our missionary
 zeal to aggressively free those who are enslaved around the world and
 we have become one of the greatest menaces to human life and liberty in the
 history of the world.  i read an article just the other day that cites 8
 million dead since WWII at the hands of the USA war machine. , i think the
 american are finally starting to smarten up, albeit in small but growing
 numbers, that joining the syrian civil war is not actually going to serve
 to make the world safe for democracy  american imperialism ought not be
 tolerated by the people and the warfare state needs to be dismantled.  to
 much of the world, we are today that crazy enemy force and i believe our
 survival as a nation depends on people opposing our behaving in the manner
 that makes us such

 i'd like you to recognize that opposition to massacre of civilian
 populations as retribution for war crimes committed by unrelated members of
 the same nation is not an unreasonable position,.  some of us do not
 support this and some of us will not murderous military adventures around
 the globe, both for moral and pragmatic reasons.  i suggest instead that
 war is best avoided, even if you are the biggest kid on the block and can
 do the lion's share of the killing
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Craig

On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 08:33:48 -0700 G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Personally... I'm deeply troubled that the same folks who screamed Foul
 !! , and have continued to, over the invasion of Iraq after
 apparently no substantiated  proof of weapons of mass destruction
 held and used by Saddam... are now withholding clear evidence there was
 chemical weapons used are now demanding we become the police agency for
 the world of bad actor nations.

Yes, that is troubling.


 I'm further troubled that the pictures used by Sec of State John anti
 war in Vietnam Kerry in his press conference are quickly identified by
 the professional photographer who took them.. in Iraq, in 2003, and
 they were conveniently now claimed to be of Syrians and recent...
 I am particularly troubled that, by admission in that same press
 conference, Sec Kerry revealed the Saudi government offered to totally
 fund the overthrow of Syria leadership.. in effect, hiring our military
 for private use... vexing conflict of Constitutional use of military
 anyone?

Why are the media not trumpeting all this all across our nation? Oh,
yeah, we don't have a real media anymore, do we?


 I am, however, joined by many others who smell something unclean about
 all this.  Apparently, America is not quite as comatose as believed.
 The phone lines to congress are jammed.. people are marching in the
 streets... worldwide.

I called our Senators and Congressman earlier today and told them to vote
No on action in Syria, that to do nothing is a moral option when doing
anything would make a bad situation worse (taken from the Breakpoint
email I posted).

No problems getting through and took only a little time.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

my point is mainly that it is super suspicious that there is always this
story of an evil power intent on taking over the world to enslave
everyone unless we stop them.  it is the stuff of pro wrestling and
children's cartoons and it is nonsense.  combine this with our missionary
zeal to aggressively free those who are enslaved around the world and
we have become one of the greatest menaces to human life and liberty in the
history of the world.  i read an article just the other day that cites 8
million dead since WWII at the hands of the USA war machine. , i think the
american are finally starting to smarten up, albeit in small but growing
numbers, that joining the syrian civil war is not actually going to serve
to make the world safe for democracy  american imperialism ought not be
tolerated by the people and the warfare state needs to be dismantled.  to
much of the world, we are today that crazy enemy force and i believe our
survival as a nation depends on people opposing our behaving in the manner
that makes us such

i'd like you to recognize that opposition to massacre of civilian
populations as retribution for war crimes committed by unrelated members of
the same nation is not an unreasonable position,.  some of us do not
support this and some of us will not murderous military adventures around
the globe, both for moral and pragmatic reasons.  i suggest instead that
war is best avoided, even if you are the biggest kid on the block and can
do the lion's share of the killing


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 So wait, whats your point again? You seemed to be suggesting that we had
 no real reason to stop the Japanese from taking over the world which was
 clearly their ambition in the '40s. I suggested that their heavy handed
 system of occupation was pretty clear in China, stuff like war prisoners
 buried alive, using dead bodies for bayonet practice, the use of comfort
 women, etc.

 This actually fits in with Craig's message earlier, the force used at
 Nagasaki and Hiroshima was massive but the Japanese had engaged in such a
 horrible war it was a justified use of force to stop a frankly crazy enemy
 force.

 Occupation is never a good thing but the US occupation of Japan can't in
 any way be compared with Japanese occupation of anywhere in any terms other
 than to say the US was as civilized as possible and the Japanese were
 horrible in general...

 -Curt

 Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 10:45:29 -0400
 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 Message-ID:
 CACioK3sDzSnmPj3Juza+_yufNuWfwxocJcrZ+GfhhsEY+kk=b...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 and many are not so thrilled with USA occupation.  you'd figure maybe this
 would give a 3rd party, say russia, the right to nuke baltimore?  you'd be
 satisfied with that or do your principle only apply to other and not the
 USA?

 you don't address the point i make anyway.  it is absolutely pointless to
 engage in this discussion as there is no actual discussion
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Scott Ritchey


I find it really amusing how younger Americans who have never endured real
hardship, never been in a third world country, and never served their
country believe themselves qualified to judge decisions made in WWII.

By comparison, the damage and death from the Fatman and Little Boy are mild
in compared to the extensive fire bombing in Japan or Germany.  In fact
Nagasaki and Hiroshima were selected specifically because they were among
the few undamaged cities in Japan.  The military planners wanted to assess
the damage caused by the nucs and that would have been impossible in most
places which were already extensively damaged.  Construction practices in
Japan were particularly conducive to fires but the fire storms in Germany
(like Dresden) were a new phenomenon.

Oh, and my dad (who lived in a tent in China for three years) would never
ride in a Japanese car either.  He also wasn't fond of camping when we were
kids.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch
Haley
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 11:01 AM


...On the subject of nuking Japanese cities, isn't it still commonly
accepted that taking Japan and Okinawa inch by inch like giant versions of
Iwo Jima would have been far bloodier than dropping a couple of low yield
nukes?

Mitch.




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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Mountain Man

drfatty wrote:
 for now,
 i'm not believing any cries of necessary or just wars and am presuming
 all wars are a sham unless shown otherwise . as it stands now, i will
 oppose any present and future USA war as i feel i've been had too many
 times with this same silly story

+1
mao

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Scott Ritchey


Actually, that's exactly what we did using a mix of HE and phosphorous to
ensure good combustion (kindling plus spark).

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt
Raymond
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 4:31 PM

... For us that meant the nukes. We could have carpet bombed housing
complexes in Tokyo...

-Curt




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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Scott Ritchey


We really need to understand that we may not understand other societies.
The idea of pre WWII Japanese defying their Emperor was literally
unthinkable.  As mentioned in another post, this was a death before
dishonor culture; they literally would have fought to the death (or killed
themselves), soldier and civilian alike, before surrendering.  Surrender was
unthinkable which is why Japanese POWs were so docile:  the unthinkable had
happened.  That's also what made the final surrender possible: the enemy
(us) had developed an unthinkable weapon (nucs) which invalidated all the
old assumptions.

This begs the question:  What do we know about the various Middle Eastern
cultures?  Are we making a mistake in thinking they view the world like we
do?  Certainly some of the folks there seem irrational to us.  Does that
mean they are nuts or does it mean we just don't understand their culture.

I offer the example of the Falklands war.  Both cultures were pretty
similar.  But the Britts could not believe that anyone would take part of
their empire and not expect war.  At the same time, the Argentineans could
not believe anyone would come half-way across the world to fight over a
chunk rock.  Kinda reminds you of the run-up to WWI.

-Original Message-
Curt Raymond wrote on Monday, September 09, 2013 1:20 PM

... If those innocent people that we dropped nukes on had said No don't
do this to their own government we wouldn't have had to make our move. We
had to convince the Japanese leadership that we had the biggest stick on the
planet ...

-Curt





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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread WILTON

But governments don't have memories.  There always young whippersnappers in 
charge who they have all the answers and think, We're gonna do it right 
this time.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling



Life teaches lessons.. War teaches lessons fast.. Same end result.. just
add carnage and suffering..

The lesson taught and learned in both theaters in WW2 was Don't do 
this..

it was both well taught.. and well learned... to whit.. Germany is now our
friend and makes good stuff.. Japan is now peaceful and our friend and
makes good stuff.. we trade with both.. neither is plotting our overthrow,
nor are we plotting theirs.. for the past 67 years...

War is about winning.. Winning requires that the winner bring so much
death, destruction, and hardship upon the opposition that they lose their
will to fight. That happened in WW2 ... in two theaters..

WW2 was the last clean war with clear objectives and clear opponents...
every conflict since then has been a political war with fuzzy definition 
of

who the sides really were and why..  For our entire lifetimes we have only
seen and been told fuzzy reasons to go to war...

Wonder why we no longer have a strong moral public compass?  I don't.

Grant...


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:


Actually we invaded Okinawa and the civilians had been so heavily
propagandized to believe the USA would rape and murder every person they
came upon that many threw themselves from cliffs -I think it was
something over 1000 that did so.  There is video showing people doing 
this
and it is very disturbing.   Also, the civilians in Japans - down to 6 
year

olds were being armed with sticks and grenades to use when the Americans
arrived.  They estimated the US would lose 1 million or more men with 2-3
times that many Japanese killed.The use of nuclear weapons saved many
lives - millions actually.

You are certainly right about Iwo Jima being a killing field for the US -
the sand was like quicksand and the Japanese had pre-sighted all the
landing areas so they had no trouble hitting American targets - also, the
beach head was narrow as they had trouble moving off the beach so the US
had a lot of soldiers in a small area which the Japanese shelled at will.
 I suspect the landing beaches on Japan itself would have been as bad or
worse...

LarryT

On 9/9/2013 11:01 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:


Curt Raymond wrote:


Chinese didn't seem so thrilled with Japanese occupation...



I went to college with a girl whose Chinese born grandparents refused to
sit in a Toyota 40 years later.

On the subject of nuking Japanese cities, isn't it still commonly
accepted that taking Japan and Okinawa inch by inch like giant versions 
of
Iwo Jima would have been far bloodier than dropping a couple of low 
yield

nukes?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Randy Bennell


I think you are going off into left field there.

There is a difference between responding to a personal attack (like 
Pearl Harbour) and feeling like you need to be policeman for the world 
and send your people half way around the world to intervene on behalf of 
a group that won't thank you for it in the long run. (Afghanistan)


Randy


On 09/09/2013 3:31 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

So you're suggesting when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor we should have just 
sat back and done nothing?

I agree with you on Iraq and Afghanistan and I suspect we'd agree on Vietnam 
too but when you try to take the same ideal back into WWII your argument falls 
apart and you slip into grumbling old man territory. They're completely 
different sets of situations.
In the first we decided we didn't like what was going on so we trumped up some 
reasons to go change things.

In the latter we were attacked and responded. When it comes to war the only way 
to finish (I won't say win, I don't really think you ever win) is to be meaner 
and nastier and than the other guy. For us that meant the nukes. We could have 
carpet bombed housing complexes in Tokyo, in fact thats probably what we'd have 
ended up doing otherwise.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 13:34:51 -0400
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
 CACioK3t4=og+z9fifnrggg5so0e91osu2fm2hkd1zya--cx...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

i'm not really caught up on the particular issue, but rather on this whole
messianic complex that we must constantly be  liberating people from
enslavement by evil forces trying to take over the world.  it is stupid
and mendacious  and it has gotten me cynical about all war.

as to the question of whether i can massacre civilians to reduce casualties
between combatants, i'm inclined to say no but i'd really rather be
addressing not fighting the war to begin with.

by invading occupying places such as iraq and afghanistan, all you do,
other than making certain select special interests richer, is spend a ton
of money you don't have to enrage the locals against you and erode your
credibility in the eyes of the world.  the people who push for these
programs justify them by using this nonsensical rhetoric and i'd like to
cut them off right there!
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Randy Bennell


On 09/09/2013 3:22 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:


Oh, and my dad (who lived in a tent in China for three years) would never
ride in a Japanese car either.  He also wasn't fond of camping when we were
kids.

Scott



It is interesting that we have so forgiven the Germans and Japanese.

Churchill would be proud. He was very anxious to avoid the issues from 
WWI that he felt contributed to WWII.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread G Mann

Life teaches lessons.. War teaches lessons fast.. Same end result.. just
add carnage and suffering..

The lesson taught and learned in both theaters in WW2 was Don't do this..
it was both well taught.. and well learned... to whit.. Germany is now our
friend and makes good stuff.. Japan is now peaceful and our friend and
makes good stuff.. we trade with both.. neither is plotting our overthrow,
nor are we plotting theirs.. for the past 67 years...

War is about winning.. Winning requires that the winner bring so much
death, destruction, and hardship upon the opposition that they lose their
will to fight. That happened in WW2 ... in two theaters..

WW2 was the last clean war with clear objectives and clear opponents...
every conflict since then has been a political war with fuzzy definition of
who the sides really were and why.. For our entire lifetimes we have only
seen and been told fuzzy reasons to go to war...

Wonder why we no longer have a strong moral public compass? I don't.

Grant...

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:

Actually we invaded Okinawa and the civilians had been so heavily
propagandized to believe the USA would rape and murder every person they
came upon that many threw themselves from cliffs -I think it was
something over 1000 that did so. There is video showing people doing this
and it is very disturbing. Also, the civilians in Japans - down to 6 year
olds were being armed with sticks and grenades to use when the Americans
arrived. They estimated the US would lose 1 million or more men with 2-3
times that many Japanese killed.The use of nuclear weapons saved many
lives - millions actually.

You are certainly right about Iwo Jima being a killing field for the US -
the sand was like quicksand and the Japanese had pre-sighted all the
landing areas so they had no trouble hitting American targets - also, the
beach head was narrow as they had trouble moving off the beach so the US
had a lot of soldiers in a small area which the Japanese shelled at will.
I suspect the landing beaches on Japan itself would have been as bad or
worse...

LarryT

On 9/9/2013 11:01 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:

Curt Raymond wrote:

Chinese didn't seem so thrilled with Japanese occupation...

I went to college with a girl whose Chinese born grandparents refused to
sit in a Toyota 40 years later.

On the subject of nuking Japanese cities, isn't it still commonly
accepted that taking Japan and Okinawa inch by inch like giant versions of
Iwo Jima would have been far bloodier than dropping a couple of low yield
nukes?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

Strange times. I was shocked when Kerry was saying things like we can infer 
clear evidence. If its clear evidence we don't have to infer anything... Or 
This video is all we need to see which is one of the single stupidest lines 
I've ever heard.

I was against going into Iraq, at the time I said we'd be there for 10 years 
and I was wrong but only in that I didn't think it would be as bad as it has 
been. I'm against going into Syria or giving any support one way or the other 
because I can't determine who the good guys are...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 08:33:48 -0700
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
    CANTuLYgeepUKsT3sYMDLUW-s4EbEXMEVpUMNkL0Vnkuvh=v...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Personally... I'm deeply troubled that the same folks who screamed Foul
!! , and have continued to, over the invasion of Iraq after apparently no
substantiated  proof of weapons of mass destruction held and used by
Saddam... are now withholding clear evidence there was chemical weapons
used are now demanding we become the police agency for the world of bad
actor nations.

I'm further troubled that the pictures used by Sec of State John anti war
in Vietnam Kerry in his press conference are quickly identified by the
professional photographer who took them.. in Iraq, in 2003, and they were
conveniently now claimed to be of Syrians and recent...
I am particularly troubled that, by admission in that same press
conference, Sec Kerry revealed the Saudi government offered to totally
fund the overthrow of Syria leadership.. in effect, hiring our military
for private use... vexing conflict of Constitutional use of military
anyone?

I am, however, joined by many others who smell something unclean about all
this.  Apparently, America is not quite as comatose as believed.  The phone
lines to congress are jammed.. people are marching in the streets...
worldwide.

Grant..
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

So you're suggesting when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor we should have just 
sat back and done nothing?

I agree with you on Iraq and Afghanistan and I suspect we'd agree on Vietnam 
too but when you try to take the same ideal back into WWII your argument falls 
apart and you slip into grumbling old man territory. They're completely 
different sets of situations.
In the first we decided we didn't like what was going on so we trumped up some 
reasons to go change things.

In the latter we were attacked and responded. When it comes to war the only way 
to finish (I won't say win, I don't really think you ever win) is to be meaner 
and nastier and than the other guy. For us that meant the nukes. We could have 
carpet bombed housing complexes in Tokyo, in fact thats probably what we'd have 
ended up doing otherwise.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 13:34:51 -0400
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
    CACioK3t4=og+z9fifnrggg5so0e91osu2fm2hkd1zya--cx...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

i'm not really caught up on the particular issue, but rather on this whole
messianic complex that we must constantly be  liberating people from
enslavement by evil forces trying to take over the world.  it is stupid
and mendacious  and it has gotten me cynical about all war.

as to the question of whether i can massacre civilians to reduce casualties
between combatants, i'm inclined to say no but i'd really rather be
addressing not fighting the war to begin with.

by invading occupying places such as iraq and afghanistan, all you do,
other than making certain select special interests richer, is spend a ton
of money you don't have to enrage the locals against you and erode your
credibility in the eyes of the world.  the people who push for these
programs justify them by using this nonsensical rhetoric and i'd like to
cut them off right there!
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

i'm suggesting you aren't listening and are conducting a monologue.  i
haven't spoken of pearl harbor.  i am talking about making everyone we
disagree with in any way the ultimate enemy who seeks to enslave he world
and that was must stop them and save the world.  it is stupid, childish and
destructive and to ascribe noble motivations to it is just bizarre.  the
perpetual war machine is a lie and i am expressing my opposition to it.
maybe it's like the boy who cried wolf.  stop telling the same stupid story
as a lie as it might just turn out that someday it might be true.  for now,
i'm not believing any cries of necessary or just wars and am presuming
all wars are a sham unless shown otherwise . as it stands now, i will
oppose any present and future USA war as i feel i've been had too many
times with this same silly story


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 So you're suggesting when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor we should have
 just sat back and done nothing?

 I agree with you on Iraq and Afghanistan and I suspect we'd agree on
 Vietnam too but when you try to take the same ideal back into WWII your
 argument falls apart and you slip into grumbling old man territory. They're
 completely different sets of situations.
 In the first we decided we didn't like what was going on so we trumped up
 some reasons to go change things.

 In the latter we were attacked and responded. When it comes to war the
 only way to finish (I won't say win, I don't really think you ever win) is
 to be meaner and nastier and than the other guy. For us that meant the
 nukes. We could have carpet bombed housing complexes in Tokyo, in fact
 thats probably what we'd have ended up doing otherwise.

 -Curt

 Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 13:34:51 -0400
 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 Message-ID:
 CACioK3t4=og+z9fifnrggg5so0e91osu2fm2hkd1zya--cx...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 i'm not really caught up on the particular issue, but rather on this whole
 messianic complex that we must constantly be  liberating people from
 enslavement by evil forces trying to take over the world.  it is stupid
 and mendacious  and it has gotten me cynical about all war.

 as to the question of whether i can massacre civilians to reduce casualties
 between combatants, i'm inclined to say no but i'd really rather be
 addressing not fighting the war to begin with.

 by invading occupying places such as iraq and afghanistan, all you do,
 other than making certain select special interests richer, is spend a ton
 of money you don't have to enrage the locals against you and erode your
 credibility in the eyes of the world.  the people who push for these
 programs justify them by using this nonsensical rhetoric and i'd like to
 cut them off right there!
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-- 
*reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars

*
*www.BuyEUROparts.com*
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling own and own about Syria

2013-09-09 Thread Rich Thomas

I don't know about all the aspects and don't really care, but I do know 
that if you go trash talking about serious matters you had better be 
prepared to back up your trash talk (in all aspects). Especially if you 
are president (if indeed you really care about the country and it's 
standing, etc.).


I'm thinking this would be the best way to do it, fully adjustable for 
the pin-prick isolated site disruption, or large-scale urban renewal, 
for when your mouth is writing checks the UN (or anyone else) will not cash:


http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/W80.html

Don't stay on the porch barking, either run with the big dogs or STFU.  
That goes for your lesser pack members.  Option 1 is what will get the 
attention of the savages who are now in their 14th century of mutual 
smitation, and perhaps a bit of respect.  Anything else, might as well 
stay on the porch and STFU.


--R



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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

So wait, whats your point again? You seemed to be suggesting that we had no 
real reason to stop the Japanese from taking over the world which was clearly 
their ambition in the '40s. I suggested that their heavy handed system of 
occupation was pretty clear in China, stuff like war prisoners buried alive, 
using dead bodies for bayonet practice, the use of comfort women, etc.

This actually fits in with Craig's message earlier, the force used at Nagasaki 
and Hiroshima was massive but the Japanese had engaged in such a horrible war 
it was a justified use of force to stop a frankly crazy enemy force.

Occupation is never a good thing but the US occupation of Japan can't in any 
way be compared with Japanese occupation of anywhere in any terms other than to 
say the US was as civilized as possible and the Japanese were horrible in 
general...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 10:45:29 -0400
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
Message-ID:
    CACioK3sDzSnmPj3Juza+_yufNuWfwxocJcrZ+GfhhsEY+kk=b...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

and many are not so thrilled with USA occupation.  you'd figure maybe this
would give a 3rd party, say russia, the right to nuke baltimore?  you'd be
satisfied with that or do your principle only apply to other and not the
USA?

you don't address the point i make anyway.  it is absolutely pointless to
engage in this discussion as there is no actual discussion
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-09 Thread Mitch Haley


Scott Ritchey wrote:


Oh, and my dad (who lived in a tent in China for three years) would never
ride in a Japanese car either.  He also wasn't fond of camping when we were
kids.


My dad spent a few months in a tent in Morocco, where dinner was said to be cold 
cheese sammiches and cooked rice every single night. He'll eat a grilled cheese 
sammich, but has not eaten rice in 60 years.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-08 Thread Gary Hurst

it's possible i commingled 2 conversations.  i do remember mentioning
goering's preference for the model 10.  wilton could clear this up by
telling us what he trained on and what he carried or something like that

i have the model 19 rusty's father in law killed himself with.  the family
was going to just let it get smelted so i suggest it might be better to
just sign it over to me


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote:


 I think Wilton later said it probably had a 4 inch barrel, maybe a model
 10.
 That's what I trained on in 1968.

 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gary
 Hurst
 Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 10:48 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

 he made claim that he was issued a small frame shot barrel revolver.  from
 his description it would be a J frame with a 2 or shorter barrel.  maybe
 he was issued a 4 inch barrel K frame.  so we are talking about different
 guns

 as for shooting your way out surrounded by your highly armed enemy, i don't
 think it's going to matter a while hill of beans whether you are toting a
 1911 or a k frame revolver.  neither will get you out and both leave you
 relatively unarmed

 however, if you were telling me we were going to have a gun fight and
 offered for me to choose my weapon i'd pick the 1911 and let you have the
 revolver every time.  i am unclear on why the air force chose to issue
 revolvers as well


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:39 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

  We may be talking apples and oranges.. or we may be talking only apples..
  Apparently.. crew issue sidearms were at the discretion of the armory at
  the departing base.  Some flight crews were issued S  W, K frame/4 inch
  barrel/6 round revolvers.. which was authorized issue.  Others had access
  to the more desired Colt 1911 which were, sometimes available... Other
  crews were permitted to arm themselves with personally owned weapons.. at
  the discretion of the commanding officer.. most likely..
 
  Rank, after all.. has it's privilege, and Flight Officers did what they
  did.  In Wilton's case.. what ever happened happened..  I recall being
  issued the standard SW K frame.. and feeling seriously unarmed for the
  theater of operation.
 
 
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   that is a different gun than wilton describes he was issued.  are you
   saying he is confused or are you discussing a completely different
  subject
   than i am?  or am i confused at to wilton's claims?
  
  
   On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:13 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
  
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-271423.html
   
K frame.. 4 inch barrel... early issue aluminum cylinders were drawn
  back
due to issues..
6 round cylinders... very little firepower when you are hanging from
   shroud
lines after punching out from a SAM damaged F4 and your LZ is
 populated
with black pajamas and AK's and SKS's with bayonets.
   
Jolly Green.. where are you?
   
Grant...
   
   
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
 says 1950 on this ladysize.  i don't think there are any ladysize
  with
   6
 shots

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_36


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

  Back in the day.. circa.. 1967.. Vietnam...
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Gary Hurst 
 jabbahur...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   by back in the day, you are talking about 18 hundred and
 what?
  
   the gun wilton describes having been issued should have had 5
bullets.
  
   when do you fancy the lady sized was first made?
  
  
   On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  
Quite correct... however.. back in the day... [OK.. time
 flys]
  G
   I
  issue
was 6 round, 4 inch barrel.
The 5 shot ladies size revolvers had not been produced ..
 yet..
   
Now.. with the new military rules of engagement.. I suppose
 the
Nuke
Command officers are sent out with a fresh tube of lipstick
 and
   one
 of
   butt
lube.. in case they are captured.. wrapped in a white flag.
   
Grant..
Late for my Kum byyy Yaaah drum cricle.. gotta run...
   
   
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Gary Hurst 
   jabbahur...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
 the small framed short barreled ones are 5 shots


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:20 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Against my desire to remain silent.. I feel the need to
  weigh
in
 on
this
  discussion.
 
  To wit:  More than once, within the past decade, the US

Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

Thanks, Grant.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-271423.html

K frame.. 4 inch barrel... early issue aluminum cylinders were drawn back
due to issues..
6 round cylinders... very little firepower when you are hanging from 
shroud

lines after punching out from a SAM damaged F4 and your LZ is populated
with black pajamas and AK's and SKS's with bayonets.

Jolly Green.. where are you?

Grant...

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

says 1950 on this ladysize.  i don't think there are any ladysize with 6
shots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_36

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Back in the day.. circa.. 1967.. Vietnam...

 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
wrote:

  by back in the day, you are talking about 18 hundred and what?

  the gun wilton describes having been issued should have had 5 
  bullets.

  when do you fancy the lady sized was first made?

  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

   Quite correct... however.. back in the day... [OK.. time flys] G I
 issue
   was 6 round, 4 inch barrel.
   The 5 shot ladies size revolvers had not been produced .. yet..

   Now.. with the new military rules of engagement.. I suppose the 
   Nuke

   Command officers are sent out with a fresh tube of lipstick and one
of
  butt
   lube.. in case they are captured.. wrapped in a white flag.

   Grant..
   Late for my Kum byyy Yaaah drum cricle.. gotta run...

   On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
  wrote:

the small framed short barreled ones are 5 shots

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:20 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Against my desire to remain silent.. I feel the need to weigh 
 in

on
   this
 discussion.

 To wit:  More than once, within the past decade, the US Supreme
 Court
   has
 ruled that it is NOT a duty of a policeman/woman to protect
 citizens.
   The
 only duty a policeman has is to protect himself.  As stunning 
 as

 this
   may
 be... it is the foundational basis for police to be armed.. to
  protect
 themselves, ONLY.

 We, the citizen, are on our own.  [Sorry Andrew, bad news, I
know].
 Police
 do not stop crime. They report crime. Then consume great
 amounts
  of
 time and money chasing those who do crime... sort of.. to 
 gather

   evidence
 which may or may not meet the burden of proof at trial to prove 
 a

  crime
was
 committed.

 If we indeed had a war on crime as we are told we do.. the 
 body

  count
 would be much higher... and police officers would be much 
 better

at
weapons
 handling.  Some are.. many are not, as stated here.

 Grant...
 Who was always amazed at the military who gave command pilots
nukes
   then
 armed them with 6 shot, short barrel .38 revolvers for personal
protection
 when they ejected over hostile country...
 and always believed the crash axe was a better choice...

 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Scott Ritchey 
 ritche...@nc.rr.com
 wrote:

  All of this serves to highlight the wide-spread
misunderstanding
 of
   the
  real
  nature of most police work, a misunderstanding largely 
  fostered

 by
   the
  entertainment media.  There are some well-trained and highly
   competent
  tactical police units but most police work is administrative
information
  processing and a systematic showing of the flag.  Not a
  criticism,
 that's
  just how it works.

  One common myth worth mentioning is the one that says it's
  dangerous
for
  well-trained, law-abiding civilians to be armed but armed
police
  are
 safe.

  -Original Message-
  From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On
Behalf
 Of
clay
  Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 3:49 AM
  To: Mercedes Discussion List
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

  Local cop is in trouble because the hooker he was chasing 
  after

  would
not
  stop.  She spun around, he could not tell what was going on, 
  so

 he
   drew
 his
  service weapon.  While it exited his holster, it went off and
 shot
   her
in
  the leg.

  He needs some gun control

  clay

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  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman

Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

I don't remember the details of the .38 we B-52 crewmen were issued; I'm no 
firearms expert and I never fondled the gun/weapon to study it in detail. 
It stayed it the holster ALL of the time, 'cept when clearing it upon 
receipt and return.  I knew how to use it if necessary and, obviously, for 
qualification.  It was a .38 S  W with a short barrel - how short, I don't 
remember.  I think it had 6 shots.  I didn't care about the details of it 30 
to 50 years ago, and I still don't.


I knew all of the intimate details of the nuclear weapons and/or 
conventional weapons (as appropriate) in our huge bomb bay and how to use 
them, but I had very little interest in the details of .38 cal S  W.  Also 
had 3 crash axes in the cabin and a .22 cal (long rifle shells) fold-up 
survival rife in every seat pack survival kit on the airplane.  'Don't 
remember a lot of the details of those, either, but I knew how to use 'em.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling



that is a different gun than wilton describes he was issued.  are you
saying he is confused or are you discussing a completely different subject
than i am?  or am i confused at to wilton's claims?


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:13 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:


http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-271423.html

K frame.. 4 inch barrel... early issue aluminum cylinders were drawn back
due to issues..
6 round cylinders... very little firepower when you are hanging from 
shroud

lines after punching out from a SAM damaged F4 and your LZ is populated
with black pajamas and AK's and SKS's with bayonets.

Jolly Green.. where are you?

Grant...


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

 says 1950 on this ladysize.  i don't think there are any ladysize with 
 6

 shots

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_36


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

  Back in the day.. circa.. 1967.. Vietnam...
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   by back in the day, you are talking about 18 hundred and what?
  
   the gun wilton describes having been issued should have had 5
bullets.
  
   when do you fancy the lady sized was first made?
  
  
   On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
  
Quite correct... however.. back in the day... [OK.. time flys] G 
I

  issue
was 6 round, 4 inch barrel.
The 5 shot ladies size revolvers had not been produced .. yet..
   
Now.. with the new military rules of engagement.. I suppose the
Nuke
Command officers are sent out with a fresh tube of lipstick and 
one

 of
   butt
lube.. in case they are captured.. wrapped in a white flag.
   
Grant..
Late for my Kum byyy Yaaah drum cricle.. gotta run...
   
   
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Gary Hurst 
jabbahur...@gmail.com

   wrote:
   
 the small framed short barreled ones are 5 shots


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:20 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Against my desire to remain silent.. I feel the need to weigh
in
 on
this
  discussion.
 
  To wit:  More than once, within the past decade, the US 
  Supreme

  Court
has
  ruled that it is NOT a duty of a policeman/woman to protect
  citizens.
The
  only duty a policeman has is to protect himself.  As stunning
as
  this
may
  be... it is the foundational basis for police to be armed.. 
  to

   protect
  themselves, ONLY.
 
  We, the citizen, are on our own.  [Sorry Andrew, bad news, I
 know].
  Police
  do not stop crime. They report crime. Then consume great
  amounts
   of
  time and money chasing those who do crime... sort of.. to
gather
evidence
  which may or may not meet the burden of proof at trial to
prove a
   crime
 was
  committed.
 
  If we indeed had a war on crime as we are told we do.. the
body
   count
  would be much higher... and police officers would be much
better
 at
 weapons
  handling.  Some are.. many are not, as stated here.
 
  Grant...
  Who was always amazed at the military who gave command pilots
 nukes
then
  armed them with 6 shot, short barrel .38 revolvers for 
  personal

 protection
  when they ejected over hostile country...
  and always believed the crash axe was a better choice...
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Scott Ritchey 
  ritche...@nc.rr.com
  wrote:
 
  
   All of this serves to highlight the wide-spread
 misunderstanding
  of
the
   real
   nature of most police work, a misunderstanding largely
fostered
  by
the
   entertainment media.  There are some well-trained and 
   highly

Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-08 Thread Dan Penoff

Bet you could have one heck of a weekend in Vegas with those survival kits!

Dan Call me Buck

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 8, 2013, at 11:30 AM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 I don't remember the details of the .38 we B-52 crewmen were issued; I'm no 
 firearms expert and I never fondled the gun/weapon to study it in detail. It 
 stayed it the holster ALL of the time, 'cept when clearing it upon receipt 
 and return.  I knew how to use it if necessary and, obviously, for 
 qualification.  It was a .38 S  W with a short barrel - how short, I don't 
 remember.  I think it had 6 shots.  I didn't care about the details of it 30 
 to 50 years ago, and I still don't.
 
 I knew all of the intimate details of the nuclear weapons and/or conventional 
 weapons (as appropriate) in our huge bomb bay and how to use them, but I had 
 very little interest in the details of .38 cal S  W.  Also had 3 crash axes 
 in the cabin and a .22 cal (long rifle shells) fold-up survival rife in every 
 seat pack survival kit on the airplane.  'Don't remember a lot of the details 
 of those, either, but I knew how to use 'em.
 
 Wilton
 
 - Original Message - From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 10:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling
 
 
 that is a different gun than wilton describes he was issued.  are you
 saying he is confused or are you discussing a completely different subject
 than i am?  or am i confused at to wilton's claims?
 
 
 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:13 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-271423.html
 
 K frame.. 4 inch barrel... early issue aluminum cylinders were drawn back
 due to issues..
 6 round cylinders... very little firepower when you are hanging from shroud
 lines after punching out from a SAM damaged F4 and your LZ is populated
 with black pajamas and AK's and SKS's with bayonets.
 
 Jolly Green.. where are you?
 
 Grant...
 
 
 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  says 1950 on this ladysize.  i don't think there are any ladysize with  6
  shots
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_36
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Back in the day.. circa.. 1967.. Vietnam...
  
  
   On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  
by back in the day, you are talking about 18 hundred and what?
   
the gun wilton describes having been issued should have had 5
 bullets.
   
when do you fancy the lady sized was first made?
   
   
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
   
 Quite correct... however.. back in the day... [OK.. time flys] G  
I
   issue
 was 6 round, 4 inch barrel.
 The 5 shot ladies size revolvers had not been produced .. yet..

 Now.. with the new military rules of engagement.. I suppose the
 Nuke
 Command officers are sent out with a fresh tube of lipstick and   
   one
  of
butt
 lube.. in case they are captured.. wrapped in a white flag.

 Grant..
 Late for my Kum byyy Yaaah drum cricle.. gotta run...


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Gary Hurst 
 jabbahur...@gmail.com
wrote:

  the small framed short barreled ones are 5 shots
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:20 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Against my desire to remain silent.. I feel the need to weigh
 in
  on
 this
   discussion.
  
   To wit:  More than once, within the past decade, the US 
 Supreme
   Court
 has
   ruled that it is NOT a duty of a policeman/woman to protect
   citizens.
 The
   only duty a policeman has is to protect himself.  As stunning
 as
   this
 may
   be... it is the foundational basis for police to be armed..   
   to
protect
   themselves, ONLY.
  
   We, the citizen, are on our own.  [Sorry Andrew, bad news, I
  know].
   Police
   do not stop crime. They report crime. Then consume great
   amounts
of
   time and money chasing those who do crime... sort of.. to
 gather
 evidence
   which may or may not meet the burden of proof at trial to
 prove a
crime
  was
   committed.
  
   If we indeed had a war on crime as we are told we do.. the
 body
count
   would be much higher... and police officers would be much
 better
  at
  weapons
   handling.  Some are.. many are not, as stated here.
  
   Grant...
   Who was always amazed at the military who gave command pilots
  nukes
 then
   armed them with 6 shot, short barrel .38 revolvers for 
 personal
  protection
   when they ejected over hostile country...
   and always believed the crash axe was a better choice...
  
  
   On Sat, Sep

Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

Yep, many different types of things in the kits, including some items that 
most people would not imagine the need for in a survival situation.  I'm 
sure some of my cohorts could put 'em to good use in Vegas, or their 
braggadocio afterward would try to make you think they did, anyway.;)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling


Bet you could have one heck of a weekend in Vegas with those survival 
kits!


Dan Call me Buck

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 8, 2013, at 11:30 AM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

I don't remember the details of the .38 we B-52 crewmen were issued; I'm 
no firearms expert and I never fondled the gun/weapon to study it in 
detail. It stayed it the holster ALL of the time, 'cept when clearing 
it upon receipt and return.  I knew how to use it if necessary and, 
obviously, for qualification.  It was a .38 S  W with a short barrel - 
how short, I don't remember.  I think it had 6 shots.  I didn't care 
about the details of it 30 to 50 years ago, and I still don't.


I knew all of the intimate details of the nuclear weapons and/or 
conventional weapons (as appropriate) in our huge bomb bay and how to use 
them, but I had very little interest in the details of .38 cal S  W. 
Also had 3 crash axes in the cabin and a .22 cal (long rifle shells) 
fold-up survival rife in every seat pack survival kit on the airplane. 
'Don't remember a lot of the details of those, either, but I knew how to 
use 'em.


Wilton

- Original Message - From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling



that is a different gun than wilton describes he was issued.  are you
saying he is confused or are you discussing a completely different 
subject

than i am?  or am i confused at to wilton's claims?


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:13 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:


http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-271423.html

K frame.. 4 inch barrel... early issue aluminum cylinders were drawn 
back

due to issues..
6 round cylinders... very little firepower when you are hanging from 
shroud

lines after punching out from a SAM damaged F4 and your LZ is populated
with black pajamas and AK's and SKS's with bayonets.

Jolly Green.. where are you?

Grant...


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com 
wrote:


 says 1950 on this ladysize.  i don't think there are any ladysize 
 with  6

 shots

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_36


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

  Back in the day.. circa.. 1967.. Vietnam...
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   by back in the day, you are talking about 18 hundred and what?
  
   the gun wilton describes having been issued should have had 5
bullets.
  
   when do you fancy the lady sized was first made?
  
  
   On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
  
Quite correct... however.. back in the day... [OK.. time flys] 
G I

  issue
was 6 round, 4 inch barrel.
The 5 shot ladies size revolvers had not been produced .. yet..
   
Now.. with the new military rules of engagement.. I suppose the
Nuke
Command officers are sent out with a fresh tube of lipstick and 
 one

 of
   butt
lube.. in case they are captured.. wrapped in a white flag.
   
Grant..
Late for my Kum byyy Yaaah drum cricle.. gotta run...
   
   
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Gary Hurst 
jabbahur...@gmail.com

   wrote:
   
 the small framed short barreled ones are 5 shots


 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:20 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Against my desire to remain silent.. I feel the need to 
  weigh

in
 on
this
  discussion.
 
  To wit:  More than once, within the past decade, the US   
   Supreme

  Court
has
  ruled that it is NOT a duty of a policeman/woman to protect
  citizens.
The
  only duty a policeman has is to protect himself.  As 
  stunning

as
  this
may
  be... it is the foundational basis for police to be armed.. 
 to

   protect
  themselves, ONLY.
 
  We, the citizen, are on our own.  [Sorry Andrew, bad news, 
  I

 know].
  Police
  do not stop crime. They report crime. Then consume 
  great

  amounts
   of
  time and money chasing those who do crime... sort of.. to
gather
evidence
  which may or may not meet the burden of proof at trial to
prove a
   crime
 was
  committed.
 
  If we indeed had a war on crime as we are told we do.. 
  the

body
   count
  would be much higher... and police officers would be much

Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rotting etc but OIL needs to be discussed

2013-09-08 Thread Brian Toscano

It's hard to go wrong with Delo 15w-40 although I like 5w-40 for winter.
 Made the block heater on my B-series not at all necessary.


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 11:10 PM, clay redgh...@comcast.net wrote:

 The winter duty involves finding that one dry week and bundling up well so
 I can do a top down, cobweb cleaner ride to move fuel through things, make
 sure nothing has taken root inside and I can put fresh gas in the tank

 clay

 On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:13 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:

  I use Delo 15W-40 in everything.  SL's, dodge, lawn mower, etc.
  Doubt your SL needs lighter oil for winter duty.
 
  -- Jim
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-08 Thread Mitch Haley


WILTON wrote:
Also had 3 crash axes in the cabin and a .22 cal (long rifle shells) 
fold-up survival rife in every seat pack survival kit on the airplane.  
'Don't remember a lot of the details of those, either, but I knew how to 
use 'em.


Was the .22 an AR-7?

http://10mmman.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ar7.jpg

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

'Don't thinks so; don't remember a stock like that; it was some sort of an 
open steel or aluminum rod stock that could slide and/or clip into place.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

WILTON wrote:
Also had 3 crash axes in the cabin and a .22 cal (long rifle shells) 
fold-up survival rife in every seat pack survival kit on the airplane. 
'Don't remember a lot of the details of those, either, but I knew how to 
use 'em.

Was the .22 an AR-7?

http://10mmman.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ar7.jpg

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling

2013-09-08 Thread Mitch Haley


WILTON wrote:
'Don't thinks so; don't remember a stock like that; it was some sort of 
an open steel or aluminum rod stock that could slide and/or clip into 
place.


Doesn't sound like an M6 (.22/.410) either, then.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6f=2t=376014

How about the M4 in .22 Hornet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Survival_Rifle

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Re: [MBZ] buymbparts is dead drunk and rattling