Re: [Talk-it] Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious Trouble

[Maurizio Napolitano]

OT: prova maps.me

Il 19 Feb 2018 23:33, "Germano Massullo"  ha
scritto:

> Circa il discorso "fruibilità da parte degli utenti finali": mi permetto
> di dire che la fruizione di contenuti, specialmente di mappe avviene
> soprattutto su dispositivi mobili. L'applicazione di punta per quanto
> riguarda Android, OSMAnd, è di una lentezza che rende l'esperienza
> utente più che frustrante: in aree dense di oggetti, il cellulare non fa
> altro che renderizzare tutto da capo ogni volta che si sposta la visuale.
> Sebbene l'applicazione sia sviluppata da terze parti, la OSM Foundation
> dovrebbe sponsorizzare la riscrittura del codice del motore di rendering.
> Quando ho tempo vorrei parlarne sulla lista internazionale per vedere se
> qualcuno è d'accordo.
>
>
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[Talk-in] Greetings from Italy

[mbranco2]

Hello Indian mappers,
I'm writing to your list to notify we're mapping - from Italy - an Indian
zone poorly mapped (north-east of Warangal, Andhra Pradesh).
I'm leading an OSM project in an Italian high school [1], students are
doing their first mappings, and it's too early to join a HOT project: so,
to learn using Tasking Manager, we set up a task [2] on an Italian istance
of TM, that we use (also) for didactic purposes (I randomly chose that
area).
I thought to notify this activity before the beginning, but I didn't find
your mailing list on Nabble [3], a third-party site I find very handy
because you can follow MLs with a forum-style.
Answering a question about one of our changesets (thank you adivik2000], I
discovered your ML, so I'm notifying this only now.

Hoping our activity is OK for your community, Ciao!
Marco

P.S. If someone of you doesn't know Tasking Manager and should like to try
it, feel free to use [2] : students has a lot of other jobs to do...



[1]
https://www.wikimedia.it/scuola-mappatura-libera-un-corso-alliis-avogadro-torino/
(sorry, Italian only)
[2] http://osmit-tm.wmflabs.org/project/30
[3] http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/OpenStreetMap-f5171240.html
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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Kate Chapman]

I shut down the list because it was not being used and instead I was ending
up having to read a bunch of spam.

If someone wants to moderate and admin the list I'm sure it could be
brought back.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 19. Feb 2018, at 10:47, Rory McCann  wrote:
> >
> > Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
> > are interested in diversity.
>
>
> yes, it’s a shame.
>
> Btw, the archive is still there, but it isn’t linked from the listinfo
> page anymore because there’s no active list. Maybe there’s a way it can be
> linked anyway? After all, it is documentation about previous activities.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
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Re: [Talk-at] "geocodec/Socke/Johann Haag" stummschalten

[Johann Haag]

Hallo Andreas,
Ich eifere im osm möglichen, lediglich der basemap 
https://www.basemap.at/application/index.html#{"center":[1380197.8514428793,6028349.185388953],"zoom":19,"rotation":0,"layers":"0010“}
 sowie dem Stadtplan Wien nach 
https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/grafik.aspx?lang=de-AT=w90eRrVhwkWz28NDgvZPQ-a5Rphlnqnnkur2pH4Oprw-b-b
 


Seltsamerweise sind genau jene Elemente welche Karten für Menschen smart und 
nützlich machen (z.b. eine funktionierende Adress Suche) dem osm Projekt 
entsagt, hingegen basemap und Stadtplan sehr ausgiebig davon Gebrauch machen. 
Der Grund hierfür ist meiner Meinung und nach 1.5 Millionen von mir 
gezeichneten OSM Nodes, Lobbyismus. Deine Vorwürfe mir gegenüber passen dazu.

Grüße Johann
Osm: wiki the map

> Am 20.02.2018 um 06:26 schrieb andreas wecer :
> 
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:27 PM Johann Haag  > wrote:
> Zur Beruhigung Deines Gemütes [...]
> micromapping mapping exempel:  
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.52588/12.39863 
> 
> 
> Nicht auch noch zur "Beruhigung des Gemüts" dein eigenwilliges 
> Löcherschneiden in Residentials, nachdem asphaltierte Teile eines Grundstücks 
> kein Wohngebiet sein sollen und von dem du genau weißt, dass dir dabei noch 
> jedes Mal von allen widersprochen wurde. Wie bei allen anderen Themen 
> interessiert dich die allgemeine Meinung aber herzlich wenig, während du 
> allen anderen die wildesten Motive und Verschwörungstheorien unterstellst. 
> Besonders amüsant ist ja deine Vorstellung der "Allianzen", als würdest du es 
> mit deiner Art nicht ganz von selbst schaffen, jedem furchtbar auf die Nerven 
> zu gehen. Ich werde deine Nachrichten jetzt auch filtern und versuchen zu 
> ignorieren, das ist sinnlos, führt zu nichts und regt nur auf.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:59:31AM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> On 2018-02-19 10:17, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> > > On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > > > > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
> > > >
> > > >  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> > > > (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> > > > or restaurants.
> > > > For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> > > > McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> > > > Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika
> > 
> > To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
> > the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
> > the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
> > ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher.
> 
> I would expect that a bounding box has precedence over other tags. Why would
> a wikipedia tag have precedence over the bounding box and a name tag not?

It is not a question of precedence. Nominatim looks at different
factors at the same time: the view box, how well-known a place
is (aka wikipedia importance), how well the name of the place matches
your query etc. It takes all these into account weighs them against
each other and comes to a ranking of results.

> But then I still don't understand.
> In the bugreport I have the example of the shop "kruidvat" (it is a chain of
> stores in the Netherlands).
> The bounding box is 6.16575,51.36926,6.17049,51.36759 which centers on the
> Kruidvat store in Venlo [1]. Nominatim returns the kruidvat in Amsterdam
> [2].
> Both nodes have a website tag with the same value. Both nodes have the same
> tags, expect that one has a source tag.
> Then still, why is the boundingbox not looked at _at all_? It's not like
> it's the second or third result, it is the 12th result where all other
> results have similar tags and the results are the same whatever bounding box
> you use.

Interesting. So in this case the importance actually happend to accidentally
cancel out the viewbox influence. I've pushed a preliminary fix to the osm.org
instance. It won't fix the McDonalds or Walmart issues though. They are problems
of a different kind.

Sarah

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Re: [Talk-it] Utilizzo amenity=recycling

[Gianluca Boero]

Dalle mie parti la situazione è molto simile al'iimagine del wiki 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Drecycling il quale 
identifica un punto di raccolta anche a bordo strada (zone dove sono 
dislocati i cassonetti) oppure un centro (area di stoccaggio delimitato 
con corsie per passaggio mezzi).


Waste mi sembra destinato quasi esclusivamente alla raccolta 
indifferenziata senza distinzione (o quasi), invece da me le tipologie 
sono molteplici.


Nello specifico qui ci sono le istruzioni per ogni cassonetto, su cosa 
si può buttare e cosa no.


http://ambiente.aceapinerolese.it/raccolta-differenziata/

Essendo no il default, metterei per ogni cassonetto cosa si può 
depositare, in base a queste istruzioni e cosa il wiki propone.



Il 19/02/2018 23:11, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:



sent from a phone

On 19. Feb 2018, at 19:49, Gianluca Boero > wrote:


Allora...in primis il tag principale è amenity=recycling seguito da 
recycling_type=container. Questo direi per tutto...vestiti e sfalci 
compresi.



non conosco la situazione dalle parti tue, ma l’indifferenziata è 
difficilmente amenity=recycling
C’è anche waste_disposal 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_disposal


Ciao,
Martin


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Re: [Talk-at] "geocodec/Socke/Johann Haag" stummschalten

[andreas wecer]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:27 PM Johann Haag  wrote:

> Zur Beruhigung Deines Gemütes [...]
> micromapping mapping exempel:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.52588/12.39863
>

Nicht auch noch zur "Beruhigung des Gemüts" dein eigenwilliges
Löcherschneiden in Residentials, nachdem asphaltierte Teile eines
Grundstücks kein Wohngebiet sein sollen und von dem du genau weißt, dass
dir dabei noch jedes Mal von allen widersprochen wurde. Wie bei allen
anderen Themen interessiert dich die allgemeine Meinung aber herzlich
wenig, während du allen anderen die wildesten Motive und
Verschwörungstheorien unterstellst. Besonders amüsant ist ja deine
Vorstellung der "Allianzen", als würdest du es mit deiner Art nicht ganz
von selbst schaffen, jedem furchtbar auf die Nerven zu gehen. Ich werde
deine Nachrichten jetzt auch filtern und versuchen zu ignorieren, das ist
sinnlos, führt zu nichts und regt nur auf.
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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Sérgio V .]

Thanks.

What looks weirdest is that it seems it was not a "no nactive list".

The last posts were 3 months ago, 2017, not much, nor 2015.

It seems people were talking and answering each other recently there:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/diversity-talk/2017-October/date.html

but being the list out of

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk
sadly this way it's sure other people couldn't have known.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs



De: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Enviado: segunda-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2018 19:53
Para: Rory McCann
Cc: Sérgio V. ; talk@openstreetmap.org
Assunto: Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list



sent from a phone

> On 19. Feb 2018, at 10:47, Rory McCann  wrote:
>
> Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
> are interested in diversity.


yes, it’s a shame.

Btw, the archive is still there, but it isn’t linked from the listinfo page 
anymore because there’s no active list. Maybe there’s a way it can be linked 
anyway? After all, it is documentation about previous activities.


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[grubernd]

On 2018-02-19 15:15, Johann Haag wrote:
Nun kommt doch dieser Tiroler daher, und führt sich auf wie Michael 
Kohlhaas.


was hat der Kohlhaas für einen OSM-Namen? ;-)


Plötzlich erwacht die Wiener OSM Welt zum Leben, Geschütze 
werden geölt, lange schon als verschollen gegoltene talk User werfen 
wieder ihren verstaubten Mail Client an. Allianzen mit Deutschen 
Administratoren werden zwecks Sperrfeuer aktiviert. 



und dann melden sich auch noch Steirer zu Wort. Skandal! wir haben eine 
Herkunft. und eine Meinung. und wenn die Meinung divergiert, dann wird 
schnell mal die Herkunft herangezogen als Unterscheidungsmerkmal, weil 
Regionalstolz und so, und die von "da draussen" sind böse usw usw.


nein.

es gibt einfach Leute, die eine andere Meinung haben. diese (siehe 
letzte Mail) kann unter Umständen sehr berechtigte Gründe haben. dass 
die Leut' dabei aus aller Herren Länder stammen ist reiner Zufall und 
bei einem weltumspannenden Projekt nicht zu vermeiden.



grüsse,
grubernd


PS:

"Aus diesem Grund erklärte Kohlhase 1534 die Fehde und es wird 
berichtet, dass er Häuser in Wittenberg niederbrannte. Er beging weitere 
Verbrechen. Schließlich wurde er ergriffen und am 22. März 1540 in 
Berlin öffentlich hingerichtet."


Quelle: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kohlhaas


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Re: [Talk-at] "geocodec/Socke/Johann Haag" stummschalten

[Johann Haag]

Hallo Andreas,
unser Vorbild basemap  https://i.imgur.com/E47uhmj.png und Stadtplan
Wienhttps://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/grafik.aspx?lang=de-AT=nzA-cRnepO0ZPJ9FDUA9dQ-a5Rphlnqnnkur2pH4Oprw-b-b
wenden genau jene Elemente an, welche dem osm Projekt entsagt sind, und
Karten für Menschen smart und nützlich machen (eine funktionierende Adress
Suche, und beschreibende Straßen Flächen).

Der Grund warum im OSM WIKI, viele hübsche Beschränkungen stehen, ist
meiner Meinung nach oftmals  Lobbyismus. Nach von mir 1.5 Millionen, dem
OpenStreetMap beigetragenen "Socken" Nodes, komm ich über vielen im Projekt
festgestellte seltsame Ecken und Kanten eben zu diesem Schluss. Deine
Vorwürfe hier passen gut in dieses Konzert.

Und meiner Meinung nach dient talk als Vehikel, um OSM von außen zu
beeinflussen.

Grüße Johann
Osm: wiki the map

mein talk-at Lesezeichen http://talk.hxg.at


Am 20. Februar 2018 um 06:26 schrieb andreas wecer 
:

> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:27 PM Johann Haag  wrote:
>
>> Zur Beruhigung Deines Gemütes [...]
>> micromapping mapping exempel:  https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.
>> 52588/12.39863
>>
>
> Nicht auch noch zur "Beruhigung des Gemüts" dein eigenwilliges
> Löcherschneiden in Residentials, nachdem asphaltierte Teile eines
> Grundstücks kein Wohngebiet sein sollen und von dem du genau weißt, dass
> dir dabei noch jedes Mal von allen widersprochen wurde. Wie bei allen
> anderen Themen interessiert dich die allgemeine Meinung aber herzlich
> wenig, während du allen anderen die wildesten Motive und
> Verschwörungstheorien unterstellst. Besonders amüsant ist ja deine
> Vorstellung der "Allianzen", als würdest du es mit deiner Art nicht ganz
> von selbst schaffen, jedem furchtbar auf die Nerven zu gehen. Ich werde
> deine Nachrichten jetzt auch filtern und versuchen zu ignorieren, das ist
> sinnlos, führt zu nichts und regt nur auf.
>
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>


-- 
Elektronikermeister Johann Haag
Innsbruckerstraße 42
6380 St. Johann in Tirol
ÖSTERREICH
Tel: +43 664/174 7414
Mailto:johannh...@hxg.at
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Re: [Talk-at] "geocodec/Socke/Johann Haag" stummschalten

[Johann Haag]

 Hallo Andreas,
unser Vorbild basemap  https://i.imgur.com/E47uhmj.png und Stadtplan Wien
https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/grafik.aspx?lang=de-AT=nzA-cRnepO0ZPJ9FDUA9dQ-a5Rphlnqnnkur2pH4Oprw-b-b
wenden genau jene Elemente an, welche dem osm Projekt entsagt sind, und
Karten für Menschen smart und nützlich machen (eine funktionierende Adress
Suche, und beschreibende Straßen Flächen).

Der Grund warum im OSM WIKI, viele hübsche Beschränkungen stehen, ist
meiner Meinung nach oftmals  Lobbyismus. Nach von mir 1.5 Millionen, dem
OpenStreetMap beigetragenen "Socken" Nodes, komm ich über vielen im Projekt
festgestellte seltsame Ecken und Kanten eben zu diesem Schluss. Deine
Vorwürfe hier passen gut in dieses Konzert.

Und meiner Meinung nach dient talk als Vehikel, um OSM von außen zu
beeinflussen.

Grüße Johann
Osm: wiki the map



Am 20. Februar 2018 um 06:54 schrieb Johann Haag :

> Hallo Andreas,
> Ich eifere im osm möglichen, lediglich der basemap https://www.basemap.at/
> application/index.html#{"center":[1380197.8514428793,
> 6028349.185388953],"zoom":19,"rotation":0,"layers":"0010“} sowie dem
> Stadtplan Wien nach https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/grafik.aspx?lang=de-
> AT=w90eRrVhwkWz28NDgvZPQ-a5Rphlnqnnkur2pH4Oprw-b-b
>
> Seltsamerweise sind genau jene Elemente welche Karten für Menschen smart
> und nützlich machen (z.b. eine funktionierende Adress Suche) dem osm
> Projekt entsagt, hingegen basemap und Stadtplan sehr ausgiebig davon
> Gebrauch machen. Der Grund hierfür ist meiner Meinung und nach 1.5
> Millionen von mir gezeichneten OSM Nodes, Lobbyismus. Deine Vorwürfe mir
> gegenüber passen dazu.
>
> Grüße Johann
> Osm: wiki the map
>
> Am 20.02.2018 um 06:26 schrieb andreas wecer :
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:27 PM Johann Haag  wrote:
>
>> Zur Beruhigung Deines Gemütes [...]
>> micromapping mapping exempel:  https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.
>> 52588/12.39863
>>
>
> Nicht auch noch zur "Beruhigung des Gemüts" dein eigenwilliges
> Löcherschneiden in Residentials, nachdem asphaltierte Teile eines
> Grundstücks kein Wohngebiet sein sollen und von dem du genau weißt, dass
> dir dabei noch jedes Mal von allen widersprochen wurde. Wie bei allen
> anderen Themen interessiert dich die allgemeine Meinung aber herzlich
> wenig, während du allen anderen die wildesten Motive und
> Verschwörungstheorien unterstellst. Besonders amüsant ist ja deine
> Vorstellung der "Allianzen", als würdest du es mit deiner Art nicht ganz
> von selbst schaffen, jedem furchtbar auf die Nerven zu gehen. Ich werde
> deine Nachrichten jetzt auch filtern und versuchen zu ignorieren, das ist
> sinnlos, führt zu nichts und regt nur auf.
> ___
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> Talk-at@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
>
>
>


-- 
Elektronikermeister Johann Haag
Innsbruckerstraße 42
6380 St. Johann in Tirol
ÖSTERREICH
Tel: +43 664/174 7414
Mailto:johannh...@hxg.at
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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[gppes_osm]

Ich widerspreche mal kurz:
Aus dieser Diskussion kann keine Vorlage fuer irgend ein Wiki werden!

Leider habe ich Volkis Argumentation fuer addressN nicht verstanden und noch 
einmal lesen geht nicht, ich finde es in dem Chaos nicht mehr.

Lg, Gppes

> Gesendet: Montag, 19. Februar 2018 um 10:54 Uhr
> Von: grubernd 
> An: "OpenStreetMap AT" 
> Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien
>
> ich klink mich mal aus, weil die Diskussion ist mir zu blabla.
> 
> schreibt bitte jemand die Essenz dann schön sauber ins englische Wiki 
> damit wir normalsterblichen dann in ein paar Monaten das richtig taggen?
> 
> DANKE!
> 
> 
> On 2018-02-16 23:52, Johann Haag wrote:
> > Ich habe dieses Tagging bereits ausführlich getestet, OSMNominatim 
> > arbeitet hiermit perfekt.
> 
> du willst ernsthaft Daten in der OSM so anpassen, dass sie in dem 
> komplett kaputten Nominatim funktionieren? ein Tool, das päpstlicher als 
> der Papst ist in Sachen exakter Schreibweise? und selbst korrekt 
> geschriebene Einträge nicht findet, weil es kaputt ist?
> 
> also bevor du die Adressen in _Wien_ an Nominatim anpasst empfehle ich 
> dir lieber Nominatim toleranter und intelligenter zu programmieren.
> 
> hier mitmachen:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/Nominatim
> 
> 
> grüsse,
> grubernd
> 
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Re: [Talk-it] Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious Trouble

[Aury88]

Germano Massullo wrote
> Circa il discorso "fruibilità da parte degli utenti finali": mi permetto
> di dire che la fruizione di contenuti, specialmente di mappe avviene
> soprattutto su dispositivi mobili. L'applicazione di punta per quanto
> riguarda Android, OSMAnd, è di una lentezza che rende l'esperienza
> utente più che frustrante: in aree dense di oggetti, il cellulare non fa
> altro che renderizzare tutto da capo ogni volta che si sposta la visuale.
> Sebbene l'applicazione sia sviluppata da terze parti, la OSM Foundation
> dovrebbe sponsorizzare la riscrittura del codice del motore di rendering.
> Quando ho tempo vorrei parlarne sulla lista internazionale per vedere se
> qualcuno è d'accordo.

onestamente l'idea non mi convince molto. osmand è solo uno degli
utilizzatori di OSM...il non fornire direttamente il servizio ha certamente
aiutato a diffondere osm sui servizi commerciali e non; lo sponsorizzare un
servizio a discapito di tutti gli altri elimina questo vantaggio dato dalla
neutralità di OSMsenza considerare che OSMAnd ha già i suoi canali di
finanziamento vendendo plugin per il proprio software. 
a questo punto tanto vale sviluppare in casa il servizio così da avere una
sorta di QA sui prodotti/servizi



-
Ciao,
Aury
--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[grubernd]

Seitens Nominatim gibt es einen ersten Kommentar 
:


·There will be no parsing of addr:housenumber for unit numbers. Any 
support for unit numbers on the Nominatim side will only rely on a 
separate tag addr:unit.


Johann, ich hoffe du hast das gelesen, verstanden und tust es nicht als 
Lobbyismus ab, sondern verstehst warum "Do not map for the renderer" so 
eine wichtige Regel ist. und dass Nominatim nur einer von vielen 
Renderern ist.



Don't hack them into housenumber just to tag for 
a broken Nomiantim.


hehe, sag ich ja, kaputt. =)


grüsse,
grubernd

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Re: [Talk-at] "geocodec/Socke/Johann Haag" stummschalten

[gppes_osm]

Hi,

wieso verwendest Du fuer Deine Einfahrten nicht:

highway = service
service = driveway
area = yes

Das sollte doch eine gueltige Moeglichkeit sein?

Und wie Dir schon (von drei Leuten auch bei Deinem Adressmapping fuer Wien) im 
Forum laengst vor dieser Diskussion hier widersprochen wurde:

BEV != OSM
basemap != OSM

Lg, Gppes

> Gesendet: Dienstag, 20. Februar 2018 um 06:54 Uhr
> Von: "Johann Haag" 
> An: "OpenStreetMap AT" 
> Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] "geocodec/Socke/Johann Haag" stummschalten
>
> Hallo Andreas,
> Ich eifere im osm möglichen, lediglich der basemap 
> https://www.basemap.at/application/index.html#{"center":[1380197.8514428793,6028349.185388953],"zoom":19,"rotation":0,"layers":"0010“}
>  sowie dem Stadtplan Wien nach 
> https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/grafik.aspx?lang=de-AT=w90eRrVhwkWz28NDgvZPQ-a5Rphlnqnnkur2pH4Oprw-b-b
>  
> 
> 
> Seltsamerweise sind genau jene Elemente welche Karten für Menschen smart und 
> nützlich machen (z.b. eine funktionierende Adress Suche) dem osm Projekt 
> entsagt, hingegen basemap und Stadtplan sehr ausgiebig davon Gebrauch machen. 
> Der Grund hierfür ist meiner Meinung und nach 1.5 Millionen von mir 
> gezeichneten OSM Nodes, Lobbyismus. Deine Vorwürfe mir gegenüber passen dazu.
> 
> Grüße Johann
> Osm: wiki the map
> 
> > Am 20.02.2018 um 06:26 schrieb andreas wecer :
> > 
> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:27 PM Johann Haag  > > wrote:
> > Zur Beruhigung Deines Gemütes [...]
> > micromapping mapping exempel:  
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.52588/12.39863 
> > 
> > 
> > Nicht auch noch zur "Beruhigung des Gemüts" dein eigenwilliges 
> > Löcherschneiden in Residentials, nachdem asphaltierte Teile eines 
> > Grundstücks kein Wohngebiet sein sollen und von dem du genau weißt, dass 
> > dir dabei noch jedes Mal von allen widersprochen wurde. Wie bei allen 
> > anderen Themen interessiert dich die allgemeine Meinung aber herzlich 
> > wenig, während du allen anderen die wildesten Motive und 
> > Verschwörungstheorien unterstellst. Besonders amüsant ist ja deine 
> > Vorstellung der "Allianzen", als würdest du es mit deiner Art nicht ganz 
> > von selbst schaffen, jedem furchtbar auf die Nerven zu gehen. Ich werde 
> > deine Nachrichten jetzt auch filtern und versuchen zu ignorieren, das ist 
> > sinnlos, führt zu nichts und regt nur auf.
> > ___
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> > Talk-at@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:
> 
> > > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
> > 
> >  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> > (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> > or restaurants.
> > For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> > McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> > Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika

To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher. That naturally only works
when the wikipedia tags actually link to a wikipedia page that
describes the object. It leads to funny results when the link goes
to category pages or, like in this case, to the company description.

Alternatively: I've proposed a GSoC to overhaul the Wikipedia
importances that Nominatim uses. Getting rid of this particular
problem from the Nominatim side would be part of this job.

For more information, see:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018/Project_Ideas#Nominatim

There are also two other topics proposed and if you have another particular
itch you want to sratch, there are surely ways they can be transformed into
a GSoC topic. Just send me a email or open an issue in github. It would be 
wonderful, if
we find some students interested in geocoding this year.

Kind regards

Sarah

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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[grubernd]

ich klink mich mal aus, weil die Diskussion ist mir zu blabla.

schreibt bitte jemand die Essenz dann schön sauber ins englische Wiki 
damit wir normalsterblichen dann in ein paar Monaten das richtig taggen?


DANKE!


On 2018-02-16 23:52, Johann Haag wrote:
Ich habe dieses Tagging bereits ausführlich getestet, OSMNominatim 
arbeitet hiermit perfekt.


du willst ernsthaft Daten in der OSM so anpassen, dass sie in dem 
komplett kaputten Nominatim funktionieren? ein Tool, das päpstlicher als 
der Papst ist in Sachen exakter Schreibweise? und selbst korrekt 
geschriebene Einträge nicht findet, weil es kaputt ist?


also bevor du die Adressen in _Wien_ an Nominatim anpasst empfehle ich 
dir lieber Nominatim toleranter und intelligenter zu programmieren.


hier mitmachen:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/Nominatim


grüsse,
grubernd

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Komяpa]

>
> Have a look at the OSMF board, a mixed bunch of people elected by the
> members. Are you sure that a seasoned developer or sysadmin would even
> *want* a paid job where they are subject to the whims of an elected
> board, with a potentially modified "strategy" year after year (as
> majorities change due to new elections)? Would that not be a job like
> Dilbert's with his pointy-haired boss?
>

Would such a person take this position voluntarily and unpaid?

Existing stable devs and sysadmins are paid with "unlimited power" in the
project now. Is that a good thing? If we get more devs/sysadmins "for
free", we're splitting the "unlimited" into halves effectively making it
limited and much less appealing. Can we replace "a free unlimited power"
payment we give to dev/sysadmins now with any other scalable means, be that
money or anything other?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Maarten Deen]

On 2018-02-19 10:17, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:

On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> wrote:
>
> > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:

> > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
>
>  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> or restaurants.
> For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika


To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher.


I would expect that a bounding box has precedence over other tags. Why 
would a wikipedia tag have precedence over the bounding box and a name 
tag not?


But then I still don't understand.
In the bugreport I have the example of the shop "kruidvat" (it is a 
chain of stores in the Netherlands).
The bounding box is 6.16575,51.36926,6.17049,51.36759 which centers on 
the Kruidvat store in Venlo [1]. Nominatim returns the kruidvat in 
Amsterdam [2].
Both nodes have a website tag with the same value. Both nodes have the 
same tags, expect that one has a source tag.
Then still, why is the boundingbox not looked at _at all_? It's not like 
it's the second or third result, it is the 12th result where all other 
results have similar tags and the results are the same whatever bounding 
box you use.


I can accept that the website tag raises the ranking, but that doesn't 
apply in this case since all nodes have the same website tag. It still 
looks like the bounding box is not used at all.


I have another example: [3] centers on a restaurant called "Sint Maria" 
[4]
Entering this in Nominatim [5] gives tram stops in Brussels, churches 
and graveyards in Germany. None of which have a website tag.


[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2931123803
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2862337526
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.32897/5.97973
[4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3008677405
[5] 
https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=sint+maria_geojson=1=5.97762%2C51.32981%2C5.98209%2C51.32813



Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [Talk-it] Entrata in una recinzione

[Andrea Albani]

Il giorno 19 febbraio 2018 10:49, demon.box  ha
scritto:

> Ciao, esempio:
>
> barrier=gate oppure meglio entrance=yes/entrance=main ?
>

Barrier descrive un oggetto fisico, mentre entrance mi sembra descriva più
un aspetto "logico".

Io in genere mi limito a mettere barrier=* e access=*... non vedrei però
problema ad aggiungere anche il tag entrance sul medesimo nodo.

Ciao
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:15:57PM +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
> 
> 
> On 18-02-2018 19:21, Milo van der Linden wrote:
> > With 103 open issues and 12 open pull requests, I would love to
> > volunteer to at least help get those cleared first. Given the (very
> > positive, I am glad so many people are acting on this thread)
> > activity, I think if everybody lends a couple of hours of code this
> > week we can get nominatim ready to make some progress.
> > 
> 
> +1
> 
> I did not blame before, because I never contributed to nominatim. I'll
> take some time this week to review issues and PR (although this week is
> the QGIS hackfest).
> 
> But definitely, I'll use the open data day [1] dedicated to nominatim.
> Maybe we can have a virtual meeting on March 3rd dedicated to nominatim
> to coordinate actions.

Awesome. Nominatim can use all the help it can get.

The open PRs marked 'Changes requested' are an excellent place to start
with. Those are changes that are good in general but unfortunately have
been abandoned by the original author very close before the finish line.

I have also marked a couple of issue as 'simple'. They are good to get
used to the code base before tackling the harder ones.

Kind regards

Sarah

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[Talk-it] Entrata in una recinzione

[demon.box]

Ciao, esempio:

ho una recinzione di ferro (inferriata) che delimita l'area intorno ad una
abitazione privata ed in questa recinzione ho un cancellino di entrata (solo
per entrata pedonale) come lo mappo?

barrier=gate oppure meglio entrance=yes/entrance=main ?

grazie

--enrico




--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Rory McCann]

Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
are interested in diversity.

GMane, which is a mailing list-to-NNTP service still seems to be still
up and hosting it as a newsgroup, so you can post messages to that
newsgroup.

On 17/02/18 20:56, Sérgio V. wrote:

Hi, I've just realized that in the

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity
at the bottom, /Resources,

there's no such link to

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk

If you click there , or search for it, it returns "No such list 
diversity-talk".


Is it still alive?


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs



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Re: [Talk-it] Di nuovo l'utente pasticcione

[Dino Michelini]

  Assodato che, nonostante le "moral suasion" messe in campo, esistono
utenti recidivi che hanno come unico fine creare danni, penso che si
dovrebbe passare ad un livello di "deterranza" più convincente, ad es. i
sistemisti che gestiscono il server dove risiede il DB di OSM potrebbero
bloccare il mac adress collegato all'account recidivo.

Il 18.02.2018
16:55 Marco ha scritto: 

> Si certo, io sono però convinto che
adattandosi al modus operandi del pirla* di turno si potrebbe ottenere
risultati migliori; con alcuni il blocco funziona, con altri no; questo
fa parte della seconda categoria. Appurato che ad ogni blocco si
registra di nuovo, perché non si smette di bloccarlo e una volta al
giorno si fa il revert dei suoi nuovi changeset? (vero, dovrei chiederlo
a quelli del dwg). 
> 
> Io posso anche essere paziente ma qua il
risultato attuale è che sulla mappa i suoi migliaia di changeset e campi
da calcio con nome "calcio" sono ancora validi, i nostri oggetti che gli
sono capitati sottomano no, sono stati modificati o cancellati, inizio
quindi a pensare che i pirla stiano dalla nostra parte della barricata,
perché lui il suo lavoro lo sta facendo senza troppi problemi (Alecs
permettendo, bravo Alessandro!) 
> 
> _*pirla: persona stupida,
facilmente imbrogliabile_ 
> 
> Il 18/02/2018 12:46, Martin Koppenhoefer
ha scritto: 
> 
>> sent from a phone
>> 
>>> On 17. Feb 2018, at 12:31,
Marco wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mi ha risposto il dwg, solita storia, adesso i
ladri (forse) stanno leggendo i 10 comandamenti, tempo qualche
ora/giorno torneranno a delinquere, e tutte le loro modifiche sono
ovviamente sempre valide
>> 
>> se insistono a fare danni saranno anche
bloccati per sempre, ma non è una lama molto tagliente, perché si
possono sempre creare nuovi account ;-)
>> 
>> Quello del vandalismo
purtroppo è un piccolo problema al quale non c'è una risposta facile,
l'unico modo è essere più paziente di loro ;-)
>> 
>> Ciao, Martin 
>>
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Re: [Talk-it] Entrata in una recinzione

[Marco]

Stavo per scrivere la stessa cosa, concordo con Andrea


Il 19/02/2018 11:11, Andrea Albani ha scritto:



Il giorno 19 febbraio 2018 10:49, demon.box > ha scritto:


Ciao, esempio:

barrier=gate oppure meglio entrance=yes/entrance=main ?


Barrier descrive un oggetto fisico, mentre entrance mi sembra descriva 
più un aspetto "logico".


Io in genere mi limito a mettere barrier=* e access=*... non vedrei 
però problema ad aggiungere anche il tag entrance sul medesimo nodo.


Ciao



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[OSM-talk] US Highway 266

[Paul Johnson]

Can we get a block, perhaps permanently, on this user?  36 edits have been
bad, out of 38 total.  User does not appear to be reasonable in various
changeset threads, 36 of which have been his inability to deal with the
Liberty Parkway rename by the state legislature from over a decade ago.
It's just getting rediculous at this point.
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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[grubernd]

oops, Verb vergessen..

On 2018-02-19 14:37, grubernd wrote:
ich halte einfach nichts von armchair-remote-datenbank-import-Mappern, 
die lokale Gepflogenheiten ignorieren. die ihr einziges ihnen bekanntes 
Tool als Referenz für alles andere hernehmen anstatt den Leuten mit 
Lokalkenntnis *folgen* und eine der Grundregeln der OSM ignorieren:

DO NOT MAP FOR THE RENDERER. [1]


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Re: [Talk-it] [Imports] Fwd: Re: Sabbioneta buildings import

[Giorgio Limonta]

Hi Andrea,

There is still an historic=monument.


Sorry, done.


If I'm not mistaken, the proposal is to map an "oratorio" in the following
> way:
> amenity=community_centre
> community_centre=parish_hall
> denomination=catholic
> religion=christian


Ok I fixed


The problem is that without a tagging plan we have to scan for features in
> your OSM file to see if they are mapped correctly :-/


I tried to make it clearer, please review them.


Why did you avoid "not residential" buildings?

For example, the following building is still not correctly mapped (and it
> is not the only one):
> https://postimg.org/image/p3b4wmsgz/


yes but that was a problematic one: if I creat two building parts and a
building feature that contains them, josm validator marks them as an error.
(perhaps for the particular shape). I solved by erasing the lower part that
surrounded the main building.


(and it is not the only one)


I checked again, I hope it's better now


Anyway it seems the OSM file is in much better shape. Let's hope to finish
> this review soon :-)


thanks for your patience ;)

bye

2018-02-16 18:16 GMT+01:00 Andrea Musuruane :

> Hi Giorgio,
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Giorgio Limonta <
> giorgio.limont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You wrongly tagged history=memorial features as historic=monument.
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dmonument
>>>
>>
> There is still an historic=monument.
>
>
>> Please look at this recent thread on the talk-it ML about correctly
>>> tagging an "oratorio" (e.g. the youth centre, not the church):
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2018-Febru
>>> ary/062020.html
>>> OK but I don't think bell towers are places of worship. Other opinions
>>> are welcome.
>>
>>
>> Done thanks
>>
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the proposal is to map an "oratorio" in the following
> way:
>
> amenity=community_centre
> community_centre=parish_hall
> denomination=catholic
> religion=christian
>
>
>> What is missing in your proposal is a good tagging plan (i.e. what tags
>>> will be places on different features). Right now I have to look for
>>> features and see if they are tagged correctly.
>>> An (old) example is the following:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sardegna/Import/Edificato#Tagging
>>
>>
>> Yes my tagging plan it's very simple because the import information are
>> poor. But I will improve the information after the import with a "classic"
>> mapping approach ;)
>>
>
> The problem is that without a tagging plan we have to scan for features in
> your OSM file to see if they are mapped correctly :-/
>
>
>> About 3D buildings
>>> There should be only one building tag on the outline. But you have two
>>> building=* and there isn't one on the building outline.
>>> Tags relevant for the complete building should be only on the building
>>> outline (e.g. amenity=place_of_worship + religion=* + denomination=* +
>>> name=*).
>>> If you want to specify different height and roof on the various parts,
>>> you must place a building:part tag on each of them.
>>> Thus 2D renderers will ignore building:part tags but they will show the
>>> overall building.
>>
>>
>> You right, I (think) understand that and I fixed the "not residential"
>> buildings
>>
>
> Why did you avoid "not residential" buildings?
>
> For example, the following building is still not correctly mapped (and it
> is not the only one):
> https://postimg.org/image/p3b4wmsgz/
>
> It should have two building:part tags one for each different section of
> the house (now it only has one).
>
>
>> It is wrong to have two POI's - one as a building and one as a node.
>>> Anyway, I haven't understood how and when you will handle these
>>> duplicate features.
>>> BTW, what is wrong with the name "Teatro Olimpico"? You could tag the
>>> feature with name="Teatro all'Antica" ("all'Antica" and not "All'Antica")
>>> and alt_name=""Teatro Olimpico" (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki
>>> /Teatro_all'Antica).
>>
>>
>> Yes, done.
>>
>
> You current OSM file has one duplicate node. You can find it with JOSM
> validator.
>
> Anyway it seems the OSM file is in much better shape. Let's hope to finish
> this review soon :-)
>
> Bye,
>
> Andrea
>
>
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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[Johann Haag]

Wäre ich ein Wiener, dann würde ich angesichts der atemraubend guten
Stadtplan Qualität https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/ keinen einzigen Klick
in OSM machen. Ich würde sogar Alleinstellungsmerkmale des Stadtplans wie
die funktionierende Adress- Suche zu verteidigen wissen. Sieht man sich den
aktuellen Zustand des Open Source Projektes OSM in Wien an, so beschreibt
dies genau die momentane Situation. Hier ein Wien dominierten OSM.at
Verein, da eine Wien lastige talk-at Community, aber alles schon längst in
eine wohligen Dämmerschlaf versunken.

Nun kommt doch dieser Tiroler daher, und führt sich auf wie Michael
Kohlhaas. Plötzlich erwacht die Wiener OSM Welt zum Leben, Geschütze werden
geölt, lange schon als verschollen gegoltene talk User werfen wieder ihren
verstaubten Mail Client an. Allianzen mit Deutschen Administratoren werden
zwecks Sperrfeuer aktiviert. Nach 30 Tagen Abwehrfeuer bricht schließlich
Hysterie aus.
Tiroler bleib Bitte zuhause.

Na Servas
Grüße von Johann dem Tiroler
osm: wiki the map


Am 19. Februar 2018 um 13:19 schrieb Robert Kaiser :

> Johann Haag schrieb:
>
>> Eine unmittelbare und praktikable Lösung ist, auf addr:unit in Wien
>> einstweilen zu verzichten, Treppen in der Form addr:housenumber=nr/nr zu
>> Mappen.
>>
>
> Eine "Lösung", die halt nur für den Datenbestand flasch ist und "Müll"
> produziert, den dann jemand später wieder richten muss.
>
> Die momentane addr:unit Verbreitung in Wien:
>> https://i.imgur.com/yMQCTl5.png 
>>
>
> Das passt sehr gut. Nicht jedes Haus in Wien hat Stiegennummern, daher
> wird addr:unit auch immer nur sprodische Verbreitung haben. Lass einfach
> uns, die wir Lokalkenntnis haben, auch unsere Stadt mappen.
>
> Es gibt übrigens eine Analogie bei der Eisenbahn. Den Bremser.
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremser_(Eisenbahn) <
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremser_(Eisenbahn)>
>>
>
> Schön, wenn du Analogien für dich selbst auch gleich postest!
>
>
> KaiRo
>
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-- 
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Innsbruckerstraße 42
6380 St. Johann in Tirol
ÖSTERREICH
Tel: +43 664/174 7414
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Re: [Talk-it] Entrata in una recinzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-02-19 12:21 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

> abitazione privata ed in questa recinzione ho un cancellino di entrata
> (solo
>
>> per entrata pedonale) come lo mappo?
>
>


se volessi essere specifico, potresti aggiungere width al barrier=gate, e
forse anche mappare un highway=footway che lo attraversa (livello di
dettaglio quasi inusuale).

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious Trouble

[Andrea Musuruane]

Ciao,

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Maurizio Napolitano 
wrote:

> Ho fatto la traduzione dell'articolo
> http://de.straba.us/2018/02/18/perche-openstreetmap-e-in-guai-seri/
>

Grazie Maurizio per la traduzione.

Penso che l'articolo fornisca diversi spunti di riflessione.

Personalmente non ho nulla contro le organizzazioni che fanno business con
OSM, anzi, penso che il loro ruolo dovrebbe essere formalizzato all'interno
alla fondazione, che dovrebbe rappresentare contributors, local chapters,
HOT e organizzazioni commerciali (non necessariamente in parti uguali).
Questo ovviamente consentirebbe anche di avere risorse per gestire meglio
le infrastrutture, a iniziare dal sito.

Il sito, essendo la vetrina del progetto, dovrebbe essere più accattivante
per l'utente finale e non rivolto quasi esclusivamente al volontario. Credo
inoltre che non dovrebbe avere nominatim come motore di ricerca, ma ne
abbiamo già parlato in un altro thread. Il fatto che la fondazione abbia a
disposizione un budget ridotto ovviamente non aiuta a sponsorizzare
progetti. Manca inoltre un vero ecosistema di progetti che possono essere
usati. Ognuno si fa il suo, senza coordinazione.

Per quanto riguarda il modello di revisione, credo che un meccanismo di
peer review su ogni singolo commit sia impraticabile. Però vedrei bene un
tutoring obbligatorio per i nuovi iscritti (con una review dei changeset
prima del loro inserimento nel DB). In questo modo si dovrebbe risolvere il
problema dei nuovi mappatori (sono seguiti) e il vandalismo (non sarebbe
consentito su nuovi mappatori e non credo che chi abbia superato il
processo di formazione poi impazzisca e si metta a vandalizzare la mappa).

Vedrei bene anche un controllo formale sui dati da caricare, che impedisca
l'upload in caso di errori. Spesso infatti si commettono errori banali sui
tag che potrebbero essere facilmente corretti.

Penso inoltre che il processo di import vada rivisto e facilitato. Più dati
entrano in OSM, specie se di qualità, meglio è per il progetto e per i suoi
utenti. Inoltre, spesso questi dati facilitano il rilevamento sul campo (ad
esempio l'edificato). Al momento il processo non è formalizzato e non c'è
un'autorità predisposta. Ci sono inoltre evidenti disparità tra import
differenti, basati più sulla simpatia o antipatia che sul lavoro vero e
proprio.

Ciao,

Andrea
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Re: [Talk-it] Entrata in una recinzione

[liste_girarsi]

aggiungerei anche foot=only visto il solo accesso pedonale.

--simone girardelli--
##
Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità.

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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[Robert Kaiser]

Johann Haag schrieb:

Eine unmittelbare und praktikable Lösung ist, auf addr:unit in Wien einstweilen 
zu verzichten, Treppen in der Form addr:housenumber=nr/nr zu Mappen.


Eine "Lösung", die halt nur für den Datenbestand flasch ist und "Müll" 
produziert, den dann jemand später wieder richten muss.



Die momentane addr:unit Verbreitung in Wien: https://i.imgur.com/yMQCTl5.png 



Das passt sehr gut. Nicht jedes Haus in Wien hat Stiegennummern, daher 
wird addr:unit auch immer nur sprodische Verbreitung haben. Lass einfach 
uns, die wir Lokalkenntnis haben, auch unsere Stadt mappen.



Es gibt übrigens eine Analogie bei der Eisenbahn. Den Bremser. 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremser_(Eisenbahn) 



Schön, wenn du Analogien für dich selbst auch gleich postest!


KaiRo

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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[Johann Haag]

Tja, 
also noch mehr Kieselsteine.
OSM Nominatim darf man mit OGD der Stadt Wien vergleichen. Aber Du schüttest 
lieber das Kind mit dem Bad aus. 
Befangen?

Grüsse Johann
osm: wiki the maps

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 19.02.2018 um 10:54 schrieb grubernd :
> 
> ich klink mich mal aus, weil die Diskussion ist mir zu blabla.
> 
> schreibt bitte jemand die Essenz dann schön sauber ins englische Wiki damit 
> wir normalsterblichen dann in ein paar Monaten das richtig taggen?
> 
> DANKE!
> 
> 
>> On 2018-02-16 23:52, Johann Haag wrote:
>> Ich habe dieses Tagging bereits ausführlich getestet, OSMNominatim arbeitet 
>> hiermit perfekt.
> 
> du willst ernsthaft Daten in der OSM so anpassen, dass sie in dem komplett 
> kaputten Nominatim funktionieren? ein Tool, das päpstlicher als der Papst ist 
> in Sachen exakter Schreibweise? und selbst korrekt geschriebene Einträge 
> nicht findet, weil es kaputt ist?
> 
> also bevor du die Adressen in _Wien_ an Nominatim anpasst empfehle ich dir 
> lieber Nominatim toleranter und intelligenter zu programmieren.
> 
> hier mitmachen:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/Nominatim
> 
> 
> grüsse,
> grubernd
> 
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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[grubernd]

On 2018-02-19 11:30, Johann Haag wrote:

Tja,
also noch mehr Kieselsteine.
OSM Nominatim darf man mit OGD der Stadt Wien vergleichen. Aber Du schüttest 
lieber das Kind mit dem Bad aus.
Befangen?


ich halte einfach nichts von armchair-remote-datenbank-import-Mappern, 
die lokale Gepflogenheiten ignorieren. die ihr einziges ihnen bekanntes 
Tool als Referenz für alles andere hernehmen anstatt den Leuten mit 
Lokalkenntnis und eine der Grundregeln der OSM ignorieren:

DO NOT MAP FOR THE RENDERER. [1]

also lass bitte die Kirche im Dorf, vergiss Nominatim und lass die 
Wiener das wienerische machen, oder gibt's in Tirol nix mehr zu mappen?


oder, wie schon vorgeschlagen: mache Nominatim besser, so dass es 
vernünftige Adressen versteht, weil auch wenn es die Suchmaschine mit 
dem höchsten Bekanntheitsgrad ist, sie ist allerhöchstens gut, eher 
mittelmässig bis schlecht. allein die Liste der offenen Issues (Art & 
Qualität) sollte ein klares Indiz dafür sein. und die realen 
Suchergebnisse zeigen sowieso ein klares Bild: das Teil ist 
unzuverlässig bis dorthinaus.


grüsse,
grubernd

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don.27t_map_for_the_renderer


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Re: [Talk-it] Entrata in una recinzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-02-19 10:49 GMT+01:00 demon.box :

> Ciao, esempio:
>
> ho una recinzione di ferro (inferriata) che delimita l'area intorno ad una
> abitazione privata ed in questa recinzione ho un cancellino di entrata
> (solo
> per entrata pedonale) come lo mappo?
>
> barrier=gate oppure meglio entrance=yes/entrance=main ?




barrier=gate, perché entrance è per edifici e per l'accesso ad aree
pubblice recintate (dove solitamente si paga ingresso, tipo lo zoo, un
museo, ecc.)

In una recinzione si mappa barrier=gate in presenza di un cancello e
barrier=entrance nel caso di un'apertura.

Forse in teoria si potrebbe mettere entrance=* anche nel caso di una
recinzione di un'abitazione, ma non è usuale (e non aggiunge dettagli
rispetto al barrier=gate/entrance).

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 19 February 2018 at 16:46, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> Checked out the latest OSM Carto 3.x style

Cool work! If you run osm2pgsql with '--hstore' and
'--tag-transform-script openstreetmap-carto.lua', I'd expect that the
4.0 branch of OSM carto will also work.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[wolfbert]

Seitens Nominatim gibt es einen ersten Kommentar 
 :

· There will be no parsing of addr:housenumber for unit numbers. Any 
support for unit numbers on the Nominatim side will only rely on a separate tag 
addr:unit. Don't hack them into housenumber just to tag for a broken Nomiantim.

· Nominatim can (and already does) take missing address parts from a 
surrounding building polygon. So a node with only addr:unit inside a building 
with a full address is just fine.

 

Das bedeutet noch nicht, dass sich etwas ändert, aber es gibt mal die Richtung 
vor.

 

LG

Wolfgang

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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[gppes_osm]

**gaehn**, guten Morgen! Was ist denn hier los? :-D

> Gesendet: Montag, 19. Februar 2018 um 15:15 Uhr
> Von: "Johann Haag" 
> An: "OpenStreetMap AT" 
> Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien
>
> Wäre ich ein Wiener, dann würde ich angesichts der atemraubend guten
> Stadtplan Qualität https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/ keinen einzigen Klick
> in OSM machen. Ich würde sogar Alleinstellungsmerkmale des Stadtplans wie
> die funktionierende Adress- Suche zu verteidigen wissen. Sieht man sich den
> aktuellen Zustand des Open Source Projektes OSM in Wien an, so beschreibt
> dies genau die momentane Situation. Hier ein Wien dominierten OSM.at
> Verein, da eine Wien lastige talk-at Community, aber alles schon längst in
> eine wohligen Dämmerschlaf versunken.
> 
> Nun kommt doch dieser Tiroler daher, und führt sich auf wie Michael
> Kohlhaas. Plötzlich erwacht die Wiener OSM Welt zum Leben, Geschütze werden
> geölt, lange schon als verschollen gegoltene talk User werfen wieder ihren
> verstaubten Mail Client an. Allianzen mit Deutschen Administratoren werden
> zwecks Sperrfeuer aktiviert. Nach 30 Tagen Abwehrfeuer bricht schließlich
> Hysterie aus.
> Tiroler bleib Bitte zuhause.
> 
> Na Servas
> Grüße von Johann dem Tiroler
> osm: wiki the map
> 
> 
> Am 19. Februar 2018 um 13:19 schrieb Robert Kaiser :
> 
> > Johann Haag schrieb:
> >
> >> Eine unmittelbare und praktikable Lösung ist, auf addr:unit in Wien
> >> einstweilen zu verzichten, Treppen in der Form addr:housenumber=nr/nr zu
> >> Mappen.
> >>
> >
> > Eine "Lösung", die halt nur für den Datenbestand flasch ist und "Müll"
> > produziert, den dann jemand später wieder richten muss.
> >
> > Die momentane addr:unit Verbreitung in Wien:
> >> https://i.imgur.com/yMQCTl5.png 
> >>
> >
> > Das passt sehr gut. Nicht jedes Haus in Wien hat Stiegennummern, daher
> > wird addr:unit auch immer nur sprodische Verbreitung haben. Lass einfach
> > uns, die wir Lokalkenntnis haben, auch unsere Stadt mappen.
> >
> > Es gibt übrigens eine Analogie bei der Eisenbahn. Den Bremser.
> >> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremser_(Eisenbahn) <
> >> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremser_(Eisenbahn)>
> >>
> >
> > Schön, wenn du Analogien für dich selbst auch gleich postest!
> >
> >
> > KaiRo
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-at mailing list
> > Talk-at@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Elektronikermeister Johann Haag
> Innsbruckerstraße 42
> 6380 St. Johann in Tirol
> ÖSTERREICH
> Tel: +43 664/174 7414
> Mailto:johannh...@hxg.at
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Rory McCann]

That's awesome!

Now you gotta set up a data replication update, but delayed by 10 years.
So the map will always be 10 years out of date :D

On 19/02/18 16:46, Ilya Zverev wrote:

Hi folks,

I've seen a lot of tile servers showing how OSM looked in 2006 or 2007. The map 
was an awful spaghetti of broken roads back then, and it looked like half the 
data were lost. So I decided to get a proper API 0.5 planet dump — and since 
the switch happened in late 2017, going back from the current date exactly ten 
years seemed a good choice.

The planet file for 20.02.2008 is slightly over 3 gigabytes, but when you cut 
USA out, you're left with a 400 MB pbf file. Checked out the latest OSM Carto 
3.x style, and voila — OpenStreetMap as it looked exactly ten years ago:

http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html

My server is a bit slow, so be patient. It has the whole world except for the 
United States. I might update it in a few months, so the delta is still ten 
years.

Have fun looking up your cities,
Ilya
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Re: [Talk-it] Di nuovo l'utente pasticcione

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 19/02/2018 10:30, Dino Michelini ha scritto:

   Assodato che, nonostante le "moral suasion" messe in campo, esistono
utenti recidivi che hanno come unico fine creare danni, penso che si
dovrebbe passare ad un livello di "deterranza" più convincente, ad es. i
sistemisti che gestiscono il server dove risiede il DB di OSM potrebbero
bloccare il mac adress collegato all'account recidivo.



Bloccare il MAC ADDRESS è violazione della privacy dell'utente.

Da quanto letto finora su questa questione del vandalismo, distinguerei 
i vandali per caso, dai vandali per dolo, ovviamente i secondi 
richiedono strumenti e mezzi che sinceramente non vedo come OSMF possa 
avere a disposizione, se non segnalando alle autorità competenti.







--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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[OSM-talk] OSM and Gender

[Heather Leson]

Hello,

We are hosting an online discussion about Gender and OSM. See details in my
diary note as well as the doodle for scheduling. Add your availability by
Thursday of this week so that we can announce the times.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Heather%20Leson/diary/43345

We will host a few conversations on this topic. This is the first scheduled
one. It will be hosted on mumble.

Thanks

Heather Leson and Kate Chapman

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com
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[Talk-it] Utilizzo amenity=recycling

[Gianluca Boero]

Ciao a tutti.

Sarei intenzionato a rivedere e/o inserire i cassonetti per la raccolta 
dei rifiuti nella mia zona. Tali cassonetti sono gestiti da una società 
che opera sul mio territorio, come tutti voi avrete altre società. 
Questo per dire  che vi possono essere lievi differenze tra l'una a l'altra.


In pratica i cassonetti sono colore grigio (secco residuo - 
indifferenziata), bianco (plastica e metalli), verde (vetro), giallo 
(carta), marrone (umido), più alcuni per le batterie usate ed i farmaci 
scaduti. Inoltre in zone sparse ci sono i cassonetti per la raccolta di 
sfalci e potature.


Vi sono poi dei contenitori non gestiti da questa società, per la 
raccolta di vestiti.


Non tutte le aree hanno tutti i contenitori sopra citati, alcune sono 
complete, altre no.


Allora...in primis il tag principale è amenity=recycling seguito da 
recycling_type=container. Questo direi per tutto...vestiti e sfalci 
compresi.


Nel dettaglio, mi creerei un nodo per ogni tipologia di cassonetto e 
farei un copia incolla negli altri punti, visto che la regola per ogni 
raccolta vale per tutti i contenitori.


Scendendo nel dettaglio. creerei dei cassonetti "master" che dovrei poi 
copiare sul territorio. Per ognuno essendo di default il valore no, in 
base alle istruzioni fornite dalla società operante, devo inserire 
esclusivamente i materiali che possono essere riciclati? Ad esempio nel 
contenitore della plastica potre inserire recycling:cans=yes per 
intendere che le lattine si possono gettare li. Ovviamente rifacendoli 
all'elenco inserito nel wiki 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:amenity%3Drecycling


E' il modo corretto per operare?

Grazie...

Gianluca

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Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien

[Peter Müller]

Ad Punkt 2: 

 

Ich glaub die Dame arbeitet und verwendet ein anderes Tool als wir, hahaha, die Meldung hat mir den Tag versüsst! 

 

Gesendet: Montag, 19. Februar 2018 um 17:53 Uhr
Von: wolfbert 
An: "'OpenStreetMap AT'" 
Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] OSM Nominatim Adress Suche in Wien






Seitens Nominatim gibt es einen ersten Kommentar:

· There will be no parsing of addr:housenumber for unit numbers. Any support for unit numbers on the Nominatim side will only rely on a separate tag addr:unit. Don't hack them into housenumber just to tag for a broken Nomiantim.

· Nominatim can (and already does) take missing address parts from a surrounding building polygon. So a node with only addr:unit inside a building with a full address is just fine.

 

Das bedeutet noch nicht, dass sich etwas ändert, aber es gibt mal die Richtung vor.

 

LG

Wolfgang



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Re: [Talk-it] Di nuovo l'utente pasticcione

[Marco]

Sarà mica il sindaco di trieste? è tornato poco fa con una raffica di 
changeset



Il 17/02/2018 12:58, Cascafico Giovanni ha scritto:
E' successo anche a Trieste, dove un vandalo alterna pochi changeset 
utili, con danni ad una prima occhiata non evidenti. IMHO questi 
comportamenti subdoli non sono frutto della noia che può affliggere 
qualche frustrato della tastiera, ma sembrano strategie mirate a 
screditare il punto di forza del lavoro collaborativo.


La vaccinazione può essere un minimo di comunità a livello regionale 
od anche più ristretto e l'uso di alcuni strumenti già citati (osmcha 
in coppia con rss, osm analytic tracker ecc.)


Fosse per me, vista la malizia dei danneggiatori, reverterei il loro 
"lavoro" in toto, fregandomene dei changeset utili, in quanto il tempo 
perso per selezionare i revert è sicuramente superiore a quello 
impiegato per vandalizzare.






Il giorno 17 febbraio 2018 12:12, Stefano Droghetti 
> ha 
scritto:




Il 17/02/2018 09:44, Marco ha scritto:



La cosa bella (no, non è bella) è che quasi nessuno sembra
notarlo (nessuno commenta i changeset chiedendo spiegazioni),
come se fossimo tutti intenti a mappare il nostro bel cortile
di casa e non ci accorgessimo che in strada c'è l'anarchia.
Non stiamo parlando di un giocatore di pokemon che ha aggiunto
un laghetto dietro casa, gli account in questione (di cui
conosciamo l'esistenza) sono almeno questi:

http://yosmhm.neis-one.org/?bionicbeaver



Per quanto riguarda questo utente in particolare, perlomeno nella
mia zona, ha aggiunto punti di interesse e percorsi veri.
Perlomeno qui, non è un utente impazzito.

-- 
Stefano Droghetti

stefano.droghe...@gmail.com 
www.stefanodroghetti.it 


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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Andrew Hain]

Hopefully anyone who revives the topic will find a way to avoid the 
circumstances of the original list’s demise.


--

Andrew



From: Rory McCann 
Sent: 19 February 2018 09:47
To: Sérgio V.; talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
are interested in diversity.

GMane, which is a mailing list-to-NNTP service still seems to be still
up and hosting it as a newsgroup, so you can post messages to that
newsgroup.

On 17/02/18 20:56, Sérgio V. wrote:
> Hi, I've just realized that in the
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity
Diversity - OpenStreetMap Wiki
wiki.openstreetmap.org
How can we increase diversity in OSM? Gender; Sexuality; Race/ethnicity; 
Disability; Age; Religion; Class; Region; Language; other? Discussions 
within/about OSM


> at the bottom, /Resources,
>
> there's no such link to
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk
>
> If you click there , or search for it, it returns "No such list
> diversity-talk".
>
> Is it still alive?
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-cde84d7490f0863c7a0b0d0a420834ebd467c1214318167d0f9a39f25a44d6bd.png]

smaprs | OpenStreetMap
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license.




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[OSM-talk] Fw: Nominatim on the main page

[Andrew Hain]

From: Andrew Hain 
Sent: 19 February 2018 21:50
To: Sarah Hoffmann
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page


It’s unfortunate that a new user mapping mistake has such unfortunate 
consequences.


--

Andrew



From: Sarah Hoffmann 
Sent: 19 February 2018 09:17
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:
>
> > > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
> >
> >  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> > (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> > or restaurants.
> > For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> > McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> > Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika

To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher. That naturally only works
when the wikipedia tags actually link to a wikipedia page that
describes the object. It leads to funny results when the link goes
to category pages or, like in this case, to the company description.

Alternatively: I've proposed a GSoC to overhaul the Wikipedia
importances that Nominatim uses. Getting rid of this particular
problem from the Nominatim side would be part of this job.

For more information, see:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018/Project_Ideas#Nominatim

There are also two other topics proposed and if you have another particular
itch you want to sratch, there are surely ways they can be transformed into
a GSoC topic. Just send me a email or open an issue in github. It would be 
wonderful, if
we find some students interested in geocoding this year.

Kind regards

Sarah

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Re: [Talk-it] Utilizzo amenity=recycling

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Feb 2018, at 19:49, Gianluca Boero  wrote:
> 
> Allora...in primis il tag principale è amenity=recycling seguito da 
> recycling_type=container. Questo direi per tutto...vestiti e sfalci compresi.


non conosco la situazione dalle parti tue, ma l’indifferenziata è difficilmente 
amenity=recycling 
C’è anche waste_disposal 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_disposal

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I've seen a lot of tile servers showing how OSM looked in 2006 or 2007. The map 
was an awful spaghetti of broken roads back then, and it looked like half the 
data were lost. So I decided to get a proper API 0.5 planet dump — and since 
the switch happened in late 2017, going back from the current date exactly ten 
years seemed a good choice.

The planet file for 20.02.2008 is slightly over 3 gigabytes, but when you cut 
USA out, you're left with a 400 MB pbf file. Checked out the latest OSM Carto 
3.x style, and voila — OpenStreetMap as it looked exactly ten years ago:

http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html

My server is a bit slow, so be patient. It has the whole world except for the 
United States. I might update it in a few months, so the delta is still ten 
years.

Have fun looking up your cities,
Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 19 February 2018, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>
> The planet file for 20.02.2008 is slightly over 3 gigabytes, but when
> you cut USA out, you're left with a 400 MB pbf file. Checked out the
> latest OSM Carto 3.x style, and voila — OpenStreetMap as it looked
> exactly ten years ago:
>
> http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html

Have you tried running OSMCoastline on that planet?  Might be tricky but 
would significantly improve the realism of the historic image.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-it] Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious Trouble

[Fabrizio]

Si stanno già muovendo
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for-proposals-data-centre-2018/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Jorge Gustavo Rocha]

Thanks, Sarah! That really helps to start contributing.

Regards,

Gustavo

On 19-02-2018 09:31, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:15:57PM +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 18-02-2018 19:21, Milo van der Linden wrote:
>>> With 103 open issues and 12 open pull requests, I would love to
>>> volunteer to at least help get those cleared first. Given the (very
>>> positive, I am glad so many people are acting on this thread)
>>> activity, I think if everybody lends a couple of hours of code this
>>> week we can get nominatim ready to make some progress.
>>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I did not blame before, because I never contributed to nominatim. I'll
>> take some time this week to review issues and PR (although this week is
>> the QGIS hackfest).
>>
>> But definitely, I'll use the open data day [1] dedicated to nominatim.
>> Maybe we can have a virtual meeting on March 3rd dedicated to nominatim
>> to coordinate actions.
> 
> Awesome. Nominatim can use all the help it can get.
> 
> The open PRs marked 'Changes requested' are an excellent place to start
> with. Those are changes that are good in general but unfortunately have
> been abandoned by the original author very close before the finish line.
> 
> I have also marked a couple of issue as 'simple'. They are good to get
> used to the code base before tackling the harder ones.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Sarah
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> 

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Re: [Talk-it] Utilizzo amenity=recycling

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 19/02/2018 19:49, Gianluca Boero ha scritto:

Ciao a tutti.

Sarei intenzionato a rivedere e/o inserire i cassonetti per la raccolta 
dei rifiuti nella mia zona. Tali cassonetti sono gestiti da una società 
che opera sul mio territorio, come tutti voi avrete altre società. 
Questo per dire  che vi possono essere lievi differenze tra l'una a 
l'altra.


In pratica i cassonetti sono colore grigio (secco residuo - 
indifferenziata), bianco (plastica e metalli), verde (vetro), giallo 
(carta), marrone (umido), più alcuni per le batterie usate ed i farmaci 
scaduti. Inoltre in zone sparse ci sono i cassonetti per la raccolta di 
sfalci e potature.


Vi sono poi dei contenitori non gestiti da questa società, per la 
raccolta di vestiti.


Non tutte le aree hanno tutti i contenitori sopra citati, alcune sono 
complete, altre no.


Allora...in primis il tag principale è amenity=recycling seguito da 
recycling_type=container. Questo direi per tutto...vestiti e sfalci 
compresi.


Nel dettaglio, mi creerei un nodo per ogni tipologia di cassonetto e 
farei un copia incolla negli altri punti, visto che la regola per ogni 
raccolta vale per tutti i contenitori.


Scendendo nel dettaglio. creerei dei cassonetti "master" che dovrei poi 
copiare sul territorio. Per ognuno essendo di default il valore no, in 
base alle istruzioni fornite dalla società operante, devo inserire 
esclusivamente i materiali che possono essere riciclati? Ad esempio nel 
contenitore della plastica potre inserire recycling:cans=yes per 
intendere che le lattine si possono gettare li. Ovviamente rifacendoli 
all'elenco inserito nel wiki 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:amenity%3Drecycling


E' il modo corretto per operare?

Grazie...

Gianluca


Per me possono coesistere se un oggetto ha più proprietà.
amenity=recycling +
recycling:plastic=yes +
recycling:cans=yes

Non ho capito il "master" a cosa si riferiva però, alla geometria del 
cassonetto?


--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [Talk-it] Utilizzo amenity=recycling

[Gianluca Boero]

Si riferiva alla tipologia di materiale da gettare in ogni cassonetto. 
Esempio nel cassonetto posso gettare cartone, carta, libri, giornali, 
tetrapack ecc ecc. Per ognuno inserire l'elenco della tipologia di 
recycling:type e poi copiarlo negli altri punti sul territorio.



Il 19/02/2018 20:02, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:


Per me possono coesistere se un oggetto ha più proprietà.
amenity=recycling +
recycling:plastic=yes +
recycling:cans=yes

Non ho capito il "master" a cosa si riferiva però, alla geometria del 
cassonetto?





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Re: [Talk-it] Utilizzo amenity=recycling

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 19/02/2018 20:24, Gianluca Boero ha scritto:
Si riferiva alla tipologia di materiale da gettare in ogni cassonetto. 
Esempio nel cassonetto posso gettare cartone, carta, libri, giornali, 
tetrapack ecc ecc. Per ognuno inserire l'elenco della tipologia di 
recycling:type e poi copiarlo negli altri punti sul territorio.





Il copiare, penso, vien da sè se hai l'intera area scaricata per 
modificare su Josm/ID, o intendevi automatizzare?




--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [Talk-it] Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious Trouble

[Germano Massullo]

Circa il discorso "fruibilità da parte degli utenti finali": mi permetto
di dire che la fruizione di contenuti, specialmente di mappe avviene
soprattutto su dispositivi mobili. L'applicazione di punta per quanto
riguarda Android, OSMAnd, è di una lentezza che rende l'esperienza
utente più che frustrante: in aree dense di oggetti, il cellulare non fa
altro che renderizzare tutto da capo ogni volta che si sposta la visuale.
Sebbene l'applicazione sia sviluppata da terze parti, la OSM Foundation
dovrebbe sponsorizzare la riscrittura del codice del motore di rendering.
Quando ho tempo vorrei parlarne sulla lista internazionale per vedere se
qualcuno è d'accordo.


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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Feb 2018, at 10:47, Rory McCann  wrote:
> 
> Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
> are interested in diversity.


yes, it’s a shame.

Btw, the archive is still there, but it isn’t linked from the listinfo page 
anymore because there’s no active list. Maybe there’s a way it can be linked 
anyway? After all, it is documentation about previous activities.


Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [talk-au] Potential data import

[Andrew Davidson]

On 20/2/18 12:51, Nedyaj Ekalsrac wrote:

Could someone take a look at the information
both in the database and about the licencing to see if it can even be
imported?


Doubt it. That's not an open license so we're starting a long way from 
being able to use the data. For example it's a revocable right, so what 
happens when they decide we can't use it any more?




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Re: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz

[Michal Grézl]

subscribe probehne po potvrzovacim mailu

tak se tam zkuste prihlasit

az to vychytame tak presunu weekly

2018-02-19 14:48 GMT+01:00 Michal Grézl :
> zapomel sem ze to existuje:)
> uz je to vyrobene jako mailing list, maily to prijima
> ted jen hledam, kde se zapina automaticky subscribe
>
> 2018-02-19 13:52 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :
>> Tak jsem to zkusil taky...
>>
>> You message for  from 2018/02/19 could not be
>> delivered.
>> It's attached below.
>>
>> Důvod / Reason:
>> ---
>>
>> 5.0.0 smtp; 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected:
>> User unknown in local recipient table
>>
>>
>>
>> Permanent Failure - Other or Undefined Status
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Původní e-mail --
>> Od: Tom Ka 
>> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
>> Datum: 19. 2. 2018 9:18:38
>> Předmět: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz
>>
>> Ahoj, dneska na mne rval twitter pri zadavani weekly:
>>
>> Je vaše e-mailová adresa aktivní? Zkoušeli jsme vám na
>> d...@openstreetmap.cz posílat e-maily, ale vracejí se nám nedoručené.
>> Aktualizujte nastavení e-mailu nebo zkuste zprávu poslat znovu na svou
>> aktuální adresu.
>>
>> Walley?
>>
>> Bye Tom.K
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michal Grézl
> http://openstreetmap.cz



-- 
Michal Grézl
http://openstreetmap.cz

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[talk-au] Potential data import

[Nedyaj Ekalsrac]

G'day. I noticed that public transport data for Perth, Western Australia
leaves a lot to be desired. The local agency running Public Transport
services, TransPerth, provides their spacial data in multiple formats per
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/About/Spatial-Data-Access - this includes
routes, timetables and stop locations for every service on the network.

However, I am not even going to try and wrap my head around importing that
to the openstreetmap system. Could someone take a look at the information
both in the database and about the licencing to see if it can even be
imported?
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Re: [Talk-ca] Formatting of Municipality Names

[Matthew Darwin]

I have summarized the discussion we had here over the last week or so  
on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines for 
easy reference in the future.  It is:



   Municipality Names

Municipality names are to be spelt according to how they are listed in 
NRCan (http://www4.rncan.gc.ca/search-place-names/search) or other 
official source. That means:


 *

   Do not include "City of", "Municipality of" or similar in the name
   unless that is officially part of the name.   "Village of Queen
   Charlotte" (BC) is correct, "City of Toronto" is incorrect (should
   be "Toronto").

 *

   Do not expand "St." to "Saint" or "Ste" to "Sainte" just to
   conform to OSM's "don't abbreviate names" rule. If the city name
   is normally has it expanded, then it is maintained as expanded in
   OSM. If it is not normally expanded, then it is not expanded in
   OSM. "Saint John" (NB) and "St. John's" (NL) are both correct.


Feel free to clarify further on the wiki or continue the discussion 
here...



Matthew Darwin
matt...@mdarwin.ca
http://www.mdarwin.ca

On 2018-02-19 06:33 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote:

On 2018-02-19 05:08 PM, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:

Have you passed by talk-gb? They have a fair amount of "St" names and
some authority as to how to do things in OSM.

The UK has Bury St Edmunds, Chapel St Leonards, Lytham St Annes, Ottery
St Mary, St Andrews, St Anne, St Austell, St Blazey, St Columb Major, St
Helens, St Ives, St Monans and St Neots all as town names in OSM. The
only two "Saint .*" towns in the whole British Isles' OSM are Saint
Helier and Saint Peter Port, both in the Channel Islands. Both have
French influences. And just to thumb its nose at us, nearby Alderney has
the town of "St Anne". So I don't think they can be a great example.

Near "St. Louis" (Missouri - abbreviated that way in OSM), OSM has the
towns of "Saint Clair" and "Saint James". In the same area, there's St.
Charles, St. Peters and East St. Louis (IL). In the St. Louis metro
area, there are roughly 4500 ways named "St\. Louis.*" and roughly 3500
ways named "St Louis.*". There are also roughly 3500 ways named "Saint .*"

So this is not a standard well kept.

  Stewart

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Re: [talk-au] Potential data import

[Andrew Harvey]

On 20 Feb. 2018 1:41 pm, "Daniel O'Connor"  wrote:

A good example of a transport agency already doing this is Adelaide Metro;
who both publish data as GTFS and provide tools based on openstreetmap;
their internal data.


I'm interested to know more about this, are there any more details?
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Re: [Talk-TW] [活動訊息] 無國界醫生Missing Maps Mapathon活動

[李昕迪 Lee , Sin-di]

Jeff (柏諺)會協助處理高雄場地的事宜。


2018年2月20日 11:41，"Dongpo Deng" 寫道：

Dear all,

昕迪是 OSM Taiwan中資深mapper，同時也是一位醫生，希望在高雄同步進行此活動，不知道 MSF的想法如何?

Cheers,
Dongpo

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:33 AM Joanna Cheng 
wrote:

> 大家好!
>
>
>
> 在此先祝各位新年快樂，希望大家在過年期間都有機會休息、放鬆。
>
> 我是無國界醫生(MSF)的Joanna，目前在台北的辦公室工作，之前也參與過無國界醫生在剛果以及南蘇丹的任務。
>
> 我們希望今年在台灣舉辦幾場MSF Mapathon，除了可協助我們完成初步的mapping外，
> 也同時透過活動讓一般民眾以及學生能更了解並關注在世界各地不同的人道危機。
>
>
>
> 今年第1場MSF Mapathon將於3月17日舉行（如Dongpo之前寄出的e-mail），而我們需要你們的協助以及參與
> ！
>
> 目前已有3位mapper報名，希望能有更多mapper的加入。
>
>
>
> 再次與各位分享細節：
>
> *活動：無國界醫生**Missing Maps Mapathon*
>
> *日期：**3**月**17**日（六）下午**1230-1600**（前**30 **分鐘為準備）*
>
> *地點：台北市士林區（詳細地點將再分享）*
>
> *志工**mapper**人數需求：**15-20**人*
>
> *志工**mapper**當天工作內容：提供當天參與**mapathon**民眾技術指導，如：網站登入、標列建築物**/**道路、儲存工作…等*
>
> *志工**mapper**條件需求：*
>
> *o   **熟悉**OpenStreetMap **平台**(www.openstreetmap.org
> )**操作*
>
> *o   **有** (Missing Maps ) Mapathon**參與經驗*
>
> *o   **語言：英＋中（當天以英語為主）*
>
> *o   **對於人道救援工作以及**MSF**工作有興趣者佳*
>
> *其他：*
>
> *o   **當天有提供點心以及飲料*
>
> *o   **結束後由**MSF**頒發志工感謝狀*
>
>
>
> *報名連結：**https://goo.gl/forms/e7mL4qeulbqhMCa93
> *
>
>
>
> 如各位有任何問題，歡迎與我們聯絡，謝謝！
>
> **
>
> Chiao-Yu Joanna Cheng *鄭巧鈺*
>
> Manager (Taiwan) *經理**(**台灣**)*
>
> Médecins Sans Frontières *無國界醫生*
>
> O: +886 (0)2 5551-1266 Ext. 6233 <+886%202%205551%201266>
>
> 6F, No. 6 Sec. 4 Xinyi Rd
> ., Da-an
> District, Taipei 10683, Taiwan
>
> *10683**台北市大安區信義路**4**段**6**號**6**樓*
>
> Facebook: Médecins Sans Frontières (Taiwan)/ *無國界醫生（台灣）*
> 
>
>
>
>
> *無國界醫生是一個獨立的國際醫療人道救援組織，致力為受武裝衝突、疫病和天災影響，以及遭排拒於醫療體系以外的人群提供緊急醫療援助。無國界醫生只會基於人們的需要提供援助，不受種族、宗教、性別或政治因素左右。*
>
> *Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is an international, independent, medical
> humanitarian organisation that delivers emergency aid to people affected by
> armed conflict, epidemics, natural disasters and exclusion from
> healthcare.  We offer assistance to people based on need and irrespective
> of race, religion, gender or political affiliation.*
>
>
>
> *From:* Dongpo Deng [mailto:dongpo.d...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sun, 11 Feb, 2018 11:36 PM
> *To:* OSM Taiwan
> *Cc:* slayer Chuang; Joanne Liao; Joanna Cheng; Case Hsu
> *Subject:* [活動訊息] 無國界醫生Missing Maps Mapathon活動
>
>
>
> 各位圖客好!
>
>
>
> 這裡有一個國際性的Missing Map Mapathon活動需要大家來共襄盛舉，活動內容如下。
> 我想這是一個相當有意義的製圖活動，畫圖又可以幫忙救人，請各位大大不吝撥冗參與!
>
>
>
> Happy Mapping!
>
>
>
> Dongpo
>
> ===
>
> 活動：無國界醫生Missing Maps Mapathon
>
> 日期：3月17日（六）下午1230-1600（前30 分鐘為準備）
>
> 地點：台北市士林區（詳細地點將再分享）
>
> 志工mapper人數需求：15-20人
>
> 志工mapper當天工作內容：提供當天參與mapathon民眾技術指導，如：網站登入、標列建築物/道路、儲存工作…等
>
> 志工mapper條件需求：
>
> o   熟悉OpenStreetMap 平台(www.openstreetmap.org)操作
>
> o   有 (Missing Maps ) Mapathon參與經驗
>
> o   語言：英＋中（當天以英語為主）
>
> o   對於人道救援工作以及MSF工作有興趣者佳
>
> 其他：
>
> o   當天有提供點心以及飲料
>
> o   結束後由MSF頒發志工感謝狀
>
> 報名連結：https://goo.gl/forms/e7mL4qeulbqhMCa93
>
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Re: [Talk-TW] [活動訊息] 無國界醫生Missing Maps Mapathon活動

[Dongpo Deng]

Dear all,

昕迪是 OSM Taiwan中資深mapper，同時也是一位醫生，希望在高雄同步進行此活動，不知道 MSF的想法如何?

Cheers,
Dongpo

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:33 AM Joanna Cheng 
wrote:

> 大家好!
>
>
>
> 在此先祝各位新年快樂，希望大家在過年期間都有機會休息、放鬆。
>
> 我是無國界醫生(MSF)的Joanna，目前在台北的辦公室工作，之前也參與過無國界醫生在剛果以及南蘇丹的任務。
>
> 我們希望今年在台灣舉辦幾場MSF Mapathon，除了可協助我們完成初步的mapping
> 外，也同時透過活動讓一般民眾以及學生能更了解並關注在世界各地不同的人道危機。
>
>
>
> 今年第1場MSF Mapathon將於3月17日舉行（如Dongpo之前寄出的e-mail），而我們需要你們的協助以及參與
> ！
>
> 目前已有3位mapper報名，希望能有更多mapper的加入。
>
>
>
> 再次與各位分享細節：
>
> *活動：無國界醫生**Missing Maps Mapathon*
>
> *日期：**3**月**17**日（六）下午**1230-1600**（前**30 **分鐘為準備）*
>
> *地點：台北市士林區（詳細地點將再分享）*
>
> *志工**mapper**人數需求：**15-20**人*
>
> *志工**mapper**當天工作內容：提供當天參與**mapathon**民眾技術指導，如：網站登入、標列建築物**/**道路、儲存工作…等*
>
> *志工**mapper**條件需求：*
>
> *o   **熟悉**OpenStreetMap **平台**(www.openstreetmap.org
> )**操作*
>
> *o   **有** (Missing Maps ) Mapathon**參與經驗*
>
> *o   **語言：英＋中（當天以英語為主）*
>
> *o   **對於人道救援工作以及**MSF**工作有興趣者佳*
>
> *其他：*
>
> *o   **當天有提供點心以及飲料*
>
> *o   **結束後由**MSF**頒發志工感謝狀*
>
>
>
> *報名連結：**https://goo.gl/forms/e7mL4qeulbqhMCa93
> *
>
>
>
> 如各位有任何問題，歡迎與我們聯絡，謝謝！
>
> **
>
> Chiao-Yu Joanna Cheng *鄭巧鈺*
>
> Manager (Taiwan) *經理**(**台灣**)*
>
> Médecins Sans Frontières *無國界醫生*
>
> O: +886 (0)2 5551-1266 Ext. 6233 <+886%202%205551%201266>
>
> 6F, No. 6 Sec. 4 Xinyi Rd
> ., Da-an
> District, Taipei 10683, Taiwan
>
> *10683**台北市大安區信義路**4**段**6**號**6**樓*
>
> Facebook: Médecins Sans Frontières (Taiwan)/ *無國界醫生（台灣）*
> 
>
>
>
>
> *無國界醫生是一個獨立的國際醫療人道救援組織，致力為受武裝衝突、疫病和天災影響，以及遭排拒於醫療體系以外的人群提供緊急醫療援助。無國界醫生只會基於人們的需要提供援助，不受種族、宗教、性別或政治因素左右。*
>
> *Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is an international, independent, medical
> humanitarian organisation that delivers emergency aid to people affected by
> armed conflict, epidemics, natural disasters and exclusion from
> healthcare.  We offer assistance to people based on need and irrespective
> of race, religion, gender or political affiliation.*
>
>
>
> *From:* Dongpo Deng [mailto:dongpo.d...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sun, 11 Feb, 2018 11:36 PM
> *To:* OSM Taiwan
> *Cc:* slayer Chuang; Joanne Liao; Joanna Cheng; Case Hsu
> *Subject:* [活動訊息] 無國界醫生Missing Maps Mapathon活動
>
>
>
> 各位圖客好!
>
>
>
> 這裡有一個國際性的Missing Map Mapathon
> 活動需要大家來共襄盛舉，活動內容如下。我想這是一個相當有意義的製圖活動，畫圖又可以幫忙救人，請各位大大不吝撥冗參與!
>
>
>
> Happy Mapping!
>
>
>
> Dongpo
>
> ===
>
> 活動：無國界醫生Missing Maps Mapathon
>
> 日期：3月17日（六）下午1230-1600（前30 分鐘為準備）
>
> 地點：台北市士林區（詳細地點將再分享）
>
> 志工mapper人數需求：15-20人
>
> 志工mapper當天工作內容：提供當天參與mapathon民眾技術指導，如：網站登入、標列建築物/道路、儲存工作…等
>
> 志工mapper條件需求：
>
> o   熟悉OpenStreetMap 平台(www.openstreetmap.org)操作
>
> o   有 (Missing Maps ) Mapathon參與經驗
>
> o   語言：英＋中（當天以英語為主）
>
> o   對於人道救援工作以及MSF工作有興趣者佳
>
> 其他：
>
> o   當天有提供點心以及飲料
>
> o   結束後由MSF頒發志工感謝狀
>
> 報名連結：https://goo.gl/forms/e7mL4qeulbqhMCa93
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Formatting of Municipality Names (Jarek Piórkowski)

[Stewart C. Russell]

On 2018-02-19 05:08 PM, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:
> 
> Have you passed by talk-gb? They have a fair amount of "St" names and
> some authority as to how to do things in OSM.

The UK has Bury St Edmunds, Chapel St Leonards, Lytham St Annes, Ottery
St Mary, St Andrews, St Anne, St Austell, St Blazey, St Columb Major, St
Helens, St Ives, St Monans and St Neots all as town names in OSM. The
only two "Saint .*" towns in the whole British Isles' OSM are Saint
Helier and Saint Peter Port, both in the Channel Islands. Both have
French influences. And just to thumb its nose at us, nearby Alderney has
the town of "St Anne". So I don't think they can be a great example.

Near "St. Louis" (Missouri - abbreviated that way in OSM), OSM has the
towns of "Saint Clair" and "Saint James". In the same area, there's St.
Charles, St. Peters and East St. Louis (IL). In the St. Louis metro
area, there are roughly 4500 ways named "St\. Louis.*" and roughly 3500
ways named "St Louis.*". There are also roughly 3500 ways named "Saint .*"

So this is not a standard well kept.

 Stewart

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Re: [talk-au] Potential data import

[Daniel O'Connor]

>From here, you might be interested in emailing the maintainer and asking if
they will specifically license that dataset as ODBL (
https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/), an open data license suitable
for datasets.


Their standard terms of use are:
*Content sharing*

*All content produced by Transperth on online properties, is protected by
copyright. However, you are encouraged to share our content provided that
you credit us as the source (by including our official social media handle
for the platform you are sharing on, see individual channels for details)
and do not change the sense or misrepresent us.*

They may be open to it, particularly if you explain the use case - import
to openstreetmap; to make available to a wide variety of applications such
as Maps.me, public transport routing tools like OSRM, etc. A good example
of a transport agency already doing this is Adelaide Metro; who both
publish data as GTFS and provide tools based on openstreetmap; their
internal data.

More details on how imports work:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Process
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Re: [talk-au] Potential data import

[Andrew Harvey]

I'm going to send off a request to see.

On 20 Feb. 2018 1:41 pm, "Daniel O'Connor"  wrote:

>From here, you might be interested in emailing the maintainer and asking if
they will specifically license that dataset as ODBL (
https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/), an open data license suitable
for datasets.


Their standard terms of use are:
*Content sharing*

*All content produced by Transperth on online properties, is protected by
copyright. However, you are encouraged to share our content provided that
you credit us as the source (by including our official social media handle
for the platform you are sharing on, see individual channels for details)
and do not change the sense or misrepresent us.*

They may be open to it, particularly if you explain the use case - import
to openstreetmap; to make available to a wide variety of applications such
as Maps.me, public transport routing tools like OSRM, etc. A good example
of a transport agency already doing this is Adelaide Metro; who both
publish data as GTFS and provide tools based on openstreetmap; their
internal data.

More details on how imports work: https://wiki.
openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Process


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Re: [Talk-ca] Formatting of Municipality Names (Jarek Piórkowski)

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

> On 2018-02-19 05:08 PM, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:
>> Have you passed by talk-gb? They have a fair amount of "St" names and
>> some authority as to how to do things in OSM.

I haven't, but I shall.  As I say quite a bit (in our wiki, e.g. 
California/Railroads), "it's complicated around here."  THEN, there is what we 
do about that in OSM.  (Our best).

On Feb 19, 2018, at 3:33 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> The UK has Bury St Edmunds, Chapel St Leonards, Lytham St Annes, Ottery
> St Mary, St Andrews, St Anne, St Austell, St Blazey, St Columb Major, St
> Helens, St Ives, St Monans and St Neots all as town names in OSM. The
> only two "Saint .*" towns in the whole British Isles' OSM are Saint
> Helier and Saint Peter Port, both in the Channel Islands. Both have
> French influences. And just to thumb its nose at us, nearby Alderney has
> the town of "St Anne". So I don't think they can be a great example.

I do not mean to appear to be "the pot calling the kettle black" (even as I 
sheepishly may).  OSM learns by example, by documenting how we should tag 
(prescriptive) and how we do tag (descriptive), — this isn't always clear or 
spelled out — by research such as you've done and by good dialog like here.

> Near "St. Louis" (Missouri - abbreviated that way in OSM), OSM has the
> towns of "Saint Clair" and "Saint James". In the same area, there's St.
> Charles, St. Peters and East St. Louis (IL). In the St. Louis metro
> area, there are roughly 4500 ways named "St\. Louis.*" and roughly 3500
> ways named "St Louis.*". There are also roughly 3500 ways named "Saint .*"
> 
> So this is not a standard well kept.

And we make our point:  OSM doesn't always follow its own rules.  Crowdsourcing 
can be messy, yet we try to improve day by day.  Thanks to all for getting here!

SteveA
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Re: [talk-au] Potential data import

[Daniel O'Connor]

:( https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/planner/ appears to have swapped over
to google maps, sigh

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> On 20 Feb. 2018 1:41 pm, "Daniel O'Connor" 
> wrote:
>
> A good example of a transport agency already doing this is Adelaide Metro;
> who both publish data as GTFS and provide tools based on openstreetmap;
> their internal data.
>
>
> I'm interested to know more about this, are there any more details?
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz

[Michal Grézl]

dela se to takto
http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node13.html

2018-02-20 7:51 GMT+01:00 Michal Grézl :
> subscribe probehne po potvrzovacim mailu
>
> tak se tam zkuste prihlasit
>
> az to vychytame tak presunu weekly
>
> 2018-02-19 14:48 GMT+01:00 Michal Grézl :
>> zapomel sem ze to existuje:)
>> uz je to vyrobene jako mailing list, maily to prijima
>> ted jen hledam, kde se zapina automaticky subscribe
>>
>> 2018-02-19 13:52 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :
>>> Tak jsem to zkusil taky...
>>>
>>> You message for  from 2018/02/19 could not be
>>> delivered.
>>> It's attached below.
>>>
>>> Důvod / Reason:
>>> ---
>>>
>>> 5.0.0 smtp; 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected:
>>> User unknown in local recipient table
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Permanent Failure - Other or Undefined Status
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Původní e-mail --
>>> Od: Tom Ka 
>>> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
>>> Datum: 19. 2. 2018 9:18:38
>>> Předmět: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz
>>>
>>> Ahoj, dneska na mne rval twitter pri zadavani weekly:
>>>
>>> Je vaše e-mailová adresa aktivní? Zkoušeli jsme vám na
>>> d...@openstreetmap.cz posílat e-maily, ale vracejí se nám nedoručené.
>>> Aktualizujte nastavení e-mailu nebo zkuste zprávu poslat znovu na svou
>>> aktuální adresu.
>>>
>>> Walley?
>>>
>>> Bye Tom.K
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-cz mailing list
>>> Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-cz mailing list
>>> Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michal Grézl
>> http://openstreetmap.cz
>
>
>
> --
> Michal Grézl
> http://openstreetmap.cz



-- 
Michal Grézl
http://openstreetmap.cz

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Re: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz

[Marián Kyral]

Prosím o hodnoty proměnných WEBSERVER a LISTNAME. Moje křišťálová koule
aktuálně nefunguje.

Marián

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Michal Grézl 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 20. 2. 2018 8:10:54
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz
"dela se to takto
http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node13.html

2018-02-20 7:51 GMT+01:00 Michal Grézl :
> subscribe probehne po potvrzovacim mailu
>
> tak se tam zkuste prihlasit
>
> az to vychytame tak presunu weekly
>
> 2018-02-19 14:48 GMT+01:00 Michal Grézl :
>> zapomel sem ze to existuje:)
>> uz je to vyrobene jako mailing list, maily to prijima
>> ted jen hledam, kde se zapina automaticky subscribe
>>
>> 2018-02-19 13:52 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :
>>> Tak jsem to zkusil taky...
>>>
>>> You message for  from 2018/02/19 could not be
>>> delivered.
>>> It's attached below.
>>>
>>> Důvod / Reason:
>>> ---
>>>
>>> 5.0.0 smtp; 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address
rejected:
>>> User unknown in local recipient table
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Permanent Failure - Other or Undefined Status
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Původní e-mail --
>>> Od: Tom Ka 
>>> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
>>> Datum: 19. 2. 2018 9:18:38
>>> Předmět: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz
>>>
>>> Ahoj, dneska na mne rval twitter pri zadavani weekly:
>>>
>>> Je vaše e-mailová adresa aktivní? Zkoušeli jsme vám na
>>> d...@openstreetmap.cz posílat e-maily, ale vracejí se nám nedoručené.
>>> Aktualizujte nastavení e-mailu nebo zkuste zprávu poslat znovu na svou
>>> aktuální adresu.
>>>
>>> Walley?
>>>
>>> Bye Tom.K
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-cz mailing list
>>> Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-cz mailing list
>>> Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michal Grézl
>> http://openstreetmap.cz
>
>
>
> --
> Michal Grézl
> http://openstreetmap.cz



--
Michal Grézl
http://openstreetmap.cz

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[Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj, dneska na mne rval twitter pri zadavani weekly:

Je vaše e-mailová adresa aktivní? Zkoušeli jsme vám na
d...@openstreetmap.cz posílat e-maily, ale vracejí se nám nedoručené.
Aktualizujte nastavení e-mailu nebo zkuste zprávu poslat znovu na svou
aktuální adresu.

Walley?

Bye Tom.K

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[Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 394

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj, je dostupné vydání 394 týdeníku WeeklyOSM:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/9998

* Ruční GPS navigace.
* SK import adres.
* Apple mapuje v Ekvádoru.
* OSM na FOSDEM 2018.
* DJI používá OSM.
* Jak na vlastní mapový styl.
* Jak vytvořit historizující mapu.

Pěkné počtení ...

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[David Marchal]

Aucune mention sur le Wiki, et je n’ai jamais entendu parler d’un accord. Je 
tenterais bien de l’obtenir, mais je ne suis pas membre de l’association OSM-FR 
et, autant que je sache, je n’ai pas de légitimité pour entamer une telle 
demande au nom de la communauté OSM, mais peut-être que ce n’est pas nécessaire 
?


Pour l’interlocuteur, le balisage est la propriété intellectuelle de la 
fédération, bien qu’ils soient assez prodigues dans leurs autorisations d’usage 
pour autant que je sache. Par contre, je ne sais pas qui est responsable des 
itinéraires. Au moins certains comme les interdépartementaux ou les GR dans les 
Vosges dépendent logiquement de la fédération, mais d’autres sont probablement 
du ressort des clubs locaux, donc soit la fédération pourrait parler pour eux 
concernant tous les itinéraires, soit il faudrait voir avec chaque club pour 
les itinéraires de son ressort, ce qui serait moins pratique.


Cet échange pourrait également être l’occasion de leur faire connaître OSM, 
voire, qui sait, leur montrer comment enrichir OSM en s’en servant de base pour 
tenir leurs itinéraires à jour. Ce serait gagnant-gagnant : ils ne dépendraient 
plus de l’IGN pour leurs supports et la mise à jour de leur balisage sur leurs 
cartes, et OSM récupérerait des données en provenance directe de l’opérateur 
des sentiers.


Dans l’attente de vos réponses,


Cordialement


De : marc marc 
Envoyé : dimanche 18 février 2018 18:45
À : talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

Le 18. 02. 18 à 16:38, David Marchal a écrit :
> Autant que je sache, la situation entre OSM et la FFRP est la suivante :
> la FFRP est au courant qu’on cartographie leurs itinéraires avec leur
> balisage, et ils n’ont jamais daigné dire s’ils nous donnaient leur
> accord ou pas. J’ai bon ?

exact.

> Qu’en est-il du Club Vosgien ?

Si quelqu'un a déjà eu un accord avec eu, j'imagine qu'il l'a renseigné
dans le wiki. as-tu fait une recherche ?
sinon, si tu as de bons contacts humains avec eux, tu es un bon candidat
pour essayer e l'obtenir :-)
Surtout que les plus petites structures sont peut-être plus réceptive
à faire connaître leur travail.

Cordialement,
Marc

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[Axelos]

Le 19/02/2018 à 15:00, David Marchal a écrit :
> Euh… Ils font dans leur coin ce qu’OSM leur propose depuis des années, 
> proposition à laquelle ils n’ont jamais daigné répondre ? Certes, ils veulent 
> proposer plus de fonctionnalités que ce que OSM seul propose, comme la 
> remontée d’infos sur les sentiers, mais tout de même, je m’interroge : 
> pourquoi ne pas avoir impliqué OSM ? À moins que ce soit le cas et qu’on ne 
> le sache pas encore ? Genre ils ajouteront leur base à celle d’OSM ou la 
> rendront importable dans OSM ? J’en doute, vu le passé des échanges avec eux, 
> mais sait-on jamais…

Voilà ma théorie à partir d'un cas similaire :
Garder l'exclusivité de ces données leur permet entre autre d’éviter que
des sociétés opportunistes ne récupère la valeur créé bien souvent
bénévolement par ces clubs, et leurs coupes l'herbe sous les pieds d'un
moyen de revenu.

Même si c'est une vision que je ne partage pas (comme nous tous
contributeurs d'OSM), ça se défend.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[JB]

Le 19/02/2018 à 14:26, Jean-Claude Repetto a écrit :

La FFRP a déjà une action en cours pour effectuer tous les relevés de
terrain sur les sentiers:
https://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_248/ambitions-itineraires-pratiques-numeriques.aspx

Dans chaque département, une équipe de bénévoles a parcouru tous les
sentiers balisés et a relevé toutes les informations. Pas seulement le
tracé, mais aussi toutes les informations annexes: panneaux, petit
patrimoine, bancs, etc.

Je pense que leur base de données est bien plus complète que celle
d'OSM, dans laquelle beaucoup de sentiers sont encore absents.
Tu as des données précises sur leurs avancées ? Le projet est ancien et 
de discussions que j'avais pu avoir il y a un temps, l'avancement était 
anecdotique au niveau global. Ce n'est pas le même travail que de 
demander à un bénévole d'aller repeindre des balises au pinceau ou de 
faire de la saisie SIG suite à une reconnaissance terrain.

JB.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[David Marchal]

Le CV serait pire que la FFRP ? Bizarre, vu qu’il y a plein d’ouvrages qui 
utilisent leur signalétique ; mais peut-être qu’ils ont tous eu le papelard 
idoine. Après, ils connaissent peut-être mieux ce genre d’outils maintenant, à 
force d’en avoir entendu parler tout le monde autour d’eux depuis 2013.


Pour le leur demander moi-même… Ben, je ne pense pas pouvoir me rendre assez 
disponible pour un tel suivi s’il s’avérait nécessaire. Je veux dire : faire 
des échanges avec la fédération pour leur demander, voire leur expliquer 
comment ça marche, les changements et conséquences que ça implique de part et 
d’autre… ça, je pourrais gérer. Mais faire la tournée des sections locales pour 
en faire de même… je doute être à même de gérer un truc comme ça ; ça risque 
plus de me démotiver et de me faire abandonner.


Si on veut que ça marche, il faut être prêt à faire tout dans les formes : 
expliquer ce qu’est OSM, leur expliquer ce qu’on veut, les avantages pour eux 
comme pour nous, le fait que cela ne contredit pas la vente des itinéraires et 
topoguides papier et peut même les enrichir… S’ils veulent approfondir, il 
faudrait sans doute leur montrer comment se servir de (J)OSM, comment mettre à 
jour les données existantes ou en ajouter, car avoir leur accord puis dire « 
Merci, mais pour la suite, on gère ; ne vous en occupez pas. », c’est moyen, il 
faut plutôt les y impliquer, pour leur faire voir l’intérêt de la chose. Mais 
c’est déjà un travail de faire tout ça pour une fédération, alors faire ça pour 
toutes ses sections, et seul ? Je pense pouvoir affirmer que c’est voué à 
l’échec, en tout cas si c’est Bibi qui s’en occupe tout seul dans son coin. 
Question stupide : la fédération ne serait pas à même de trancher pour tous ? 
Après tout, c’est aussi pour ça qu’une fédération existe, non ?

Cordialement.


De : JB 
Envoyé : lundi 19 février 2018 12:39
À : Discussions sur OSM en français
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

Bonjour,
Sauf erreur de ma part, la situation n'a pas avancé positivement depuis cette 
époque :
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2012-August/046340.html
http://forum.openstreetmap.fr/viewtopic.php?t=282
J'ai souvenir de retours négatifs de la fédération par un adhérent au CV qui 
aurait abordé le sujet, mais je n'ai retrouvé de traces.
J'ai trouvé une citation dans un mail privé de 2013 : « D'après des dires de 
membres de la FFRP, le Club Vosgien serait encore "pire" au niveau propriété 
intellectuelle... »
À David : adhérent ou pas, ça ne change pas forcément grand chose, si tu veux 
un coup de tampon de l'assoc' en plus, ça m'étonnerait qu'il te soit refusé. Si 
tu veux y aller « sérieusement » (au-delà d'un tweet, d'un mail râgeur ou d'un 
courrier sans suite), c'est chouette. Mais attends-toi à un travail de longue 
haleine, probablement en commençant par convaincre la base pour aller 
chatouiller la tête ensuite. Les groupes locaux vendent des cartes de randonnée 
locales avec leurs balisages en sur-impression, et se sentent dépossédés si 
quelqu'un d'autre pouvait en faire de même. Le numérique, les biens communs, ce 
n'est pas encore leur époque, pour ceux que j'ai pu rencontrer.
JB.
PS : et le CV et la FFRP se disputent toujours la propriété du GR5 dans les 
Vosges, il me semble…

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Rihards]

On 2018.02.19. 15:28, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
...
> Having good paved/unpaved information will be a massive boost for OSM in
> comparison to other map providers. We're already partway there. As an

definitely. if somebody with the skills reads this, having that
reflected on the osm.org default render would be a huge help.
i'd map more surface status if it was more obvious.

> example, try asking Google Maps for bike directions from SF to NYC. It sends
> you down some really, really unsuitable tracks and I'm not entirely
> convinced you'd survive the journey. By contrast, cycle.travel (using OSM
> data) gets it pretty much right: occasionally it takes a gravel road
> unnecessarily but it's pretty much always rideable.
> 
> It would be great if we could become the best map of the rural US just as we
> are for much of the rest of the world.
> 
> cheers
> Richard-- 
 Rihards

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Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool

[Ed Loach]

Looks interesting thanks. I found a postbox that had recently been re-tagged as 
a post office by a new editor straight away.

One of the unmatched items is the delivery office in Frinton-on-Sea (the 
counter services have moved to the Co-Op). The delivery office still has the 
post office tag on. Should it be tagged differently, or have a subtag added 
(post_office=delivery_office maybe?), or something else?

Thanks

Ed


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[Philippe Verdy]

Il y aurait donc compétition entre 4 acteurs dans les Vosges pour la même
chose : les sentiers pédestres. Qui fera les meilleurs sentiers ?
- les collectivités publiques vosgiennes
- la FFRP
- le Club Vosgien
- OSM

Bref OSM vient s'ajouter à la liste, mais n'a pas d'action locale propre,
ce qui fait encore plus désordre, même si OSM (France) a plutôt bonne cote
au niveau national pour les collectivités publiques en général.

J'imagine que les collectivités vosgiennes ne doivent pas savoir quoi
choisir et à qui s'adresser, elles saupoudrent leurs subventions dans le
désordre dans des projets concurrents, mais là OSM est "out" (hors jeu)

A moins que cela vienne d'une incitation gouvernementale, régionale ou
départementale où il y a bien d'autres choses à cartographier et partager
avec OSM.

Pas seulement avec OSM car il y a aussi les open data publics qui sont nos
sources, et une tentative de longue haleine au plan national pour
synchroniser nos données avec les open data publics, comme par exemple
BANO, BATO d'une part avec d'autre part la BAN, la base postale nationale
normalement transférée par la Poste à l'ARCEP, l'INSEE, l'IGN, le portail
national OpenData et les portails régionaux, mais aussi des données venant
d'autres acteurs public, privés ou mixtes comme ERDF, SNCF/RFF, les agences
de bassin, les agences des parcs naturels, les autorités portuaires ou
aéroportuaires, les chambres et ordres professionnels (y compris de la
Justice comme le notariat, les huissiers, les avocats, les médecins, les
pharmaciens), les grandes assos humanitaires (type Croix Rouge ou Médecins
du Monde), la sécurité civile, etc.

On attend donc une incitation forte du gouvernement pour coordonner les
efforts Open Data, et insister auprès des collectivités pour qu'elles
exigent des données libres (open data) remises régulièrement à jour
(engagement de mise à jour à chaque recette de lot public et au minimum
annuelle) venant de tous les acteurs à qui elles accordent des subventions
publiques.

C'est non seulement une volonté de notre part (OSM France a, avec d'autres
acteurs aussi comme Wikimedia France, ou les assos françaises promouvant
Linux, ou les assos militant pour les libertés publiques, ou encore aussi
les syndicats et les diverses assos locales de résidents un rôle militant
et incitatif), car on peut être une force de pression aussi bien en Europe avec
l'aide d'autres chapitres OSM européens (là une force de pression et
d'incitation s'appelle un "lobby", il n'y a pas que les grandes entreprises
qui doivent s'installer à Bruxelles pour jouer ce rôle auprès de la
Commission ou du Parlement européen) qu'en France (les lobbies existent
aussi et sont très actifs à l'échelle nationale près du gouvernement et du
parlement français, mais ils sont surreprésentés par les grandes
entreprises et les grands syndicats professionnels).

C'est aussi une volonté forte de la Cour des comptes (manifestée à de
nombreuses reprises) et de l'Union européenne pour plus de transparence et
plus de contrôle et plus de visibilité par les résidents de toutes les
dépenses publiques qui sont faites, pour savoir ce qui est réellement mis
en place, fourni aux collectivités en échange de l'octroi d'une quelconque
concession du domaine public.

Il nous faut donc faire comprendre que l'Open Data n'est pas qu'une
exigence pour nous seuls chez OSM (même pour ceux à qui on demande les
données car ils peuvent largement aussi bénéficier déjà des efforts pour
libérer des tonnes d'autres données dont ils ont besoin et qu'ils n'ont
eux-même aucun contrôle et parfois aucune visibilité, même contre licence
payante), c'est un DROIT collectif (pour tous) justifié par les dépenses
publiques qui sont faites en notre nom et qu'on DOIT collectivement payer
sous différentes formes de taxes, impôts, obligations ou contraintes
légales et réglementaires.


Le 19 février 2018 à 12:39, JB  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
> Sauf erreur de ma part, la situation n'a pas avancé positivement depuis
> cette époque :
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2012-August/046340.html
> http://forum.openstreetmap.fr/viewtopic.php?t=282
> J'ai souvenir de retours négatifs de la fédération par un adhérent au CV
> qui aurait abordé le sujet, mais je n'ai retrouvé de traces.
> J'ai trouvé une citation dans un mail privé de 2013 : « D'après des dires
> de membres de la FFRP, le Club Vosgien serait encore "pire" au niveau
> propriété intellectuelle... »
> À David : adhérent ou pas, ça ne change pas forcément grand chose, si tu
> veux un coup de tampon de l'assoc' en plus, ça m'étonnerait qu'il te soit
> refusé. Si tu veux y aller « sérieusement » (au-delà d'un tweet, d'un mail
> râgeur ou d'un courrier sans suite), c'est chouette. Mais attends-toi à un
> travail de longue haleine, probablement en commençant par convaincre la
> base pour aller chatouiller la tête ensuite. Les groupes locaux vendent des
> cartes de randonnée locales avec leurs balisages en sur-impression, 

[Talk-GB] Derby Pub-meeting Tuesday Feb 20th

[SK53]

Just a quick reminder that we will be at the Old Silk Mill in Derby
tomorrow, Tuesday 20th from 19:30.

Details: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nottingham/Pub_Meetup

Regards,

Jerry
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Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool

[Philip Withnall]

On Mon, 2018-02-19 at 13:29 +, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> Some of you may have already seen that a few weeks ago I eventually
> got a positive response from Post Office Ltd. (POL) to a request I
> made for a re-usable list of their branches, and permission to use it
> to help improve OpenStreetMap:
> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/re_use_request_for_post_office
> _d
> 
> The raw branch list data can be found at
> http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/ and it licensed under
> the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names,
> addresses, locations, and opening hours.
> 
> I've adapted one of my previous comparison tools to compare the
> dataset to what is currently in OSM, and the results can be seen at
> http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/progress/ . I was hoping
> we'd
> be able to use some form of automated matching and import, but I
> don't
> think the data is quite good enough for that. In particular, the
> locations aren't always accurate and sometimes appear not to have
> been
> updated following a branch move. (Based on a small sample that I've
> matched so far, it looks like 10-15% may be out by more than 100m.)
> Also the address data isn't easy to automatically parse into the OSM
> keys.

I’ve taken a brief look, and this looks very useful, thanks Robert.

Philip

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[emeric Prouteau]

Ah mon avis, le lien entre l'IGN et la FFRP doit jouer car dans tous leurs
bouquins ce sont les cartes IGN et sur les carte IGN (Top25) tous les PR
sont inscrit (Tracés roses). Si les données étaient misent dans OSM l'IGN
perdrait l'exclusivité des tracés sur leurs cartes. Je trouve tous ça quand
même très dommage.

Emeric

Le 19 février 2018 à 15:00, David Marchal  a écrit :

> Euh… Ils font dans leur coin ce qu’OSM leur propose depuis des années,
> proposition à laquelle ils n’ont jamais daigné répondre ? Certes, ils
> veulent proposer plus de fonctionnalités que ce que OSM seul propose, comme
> la remontée d’infos sur les sentiers, mais tout de même, je m’interroge :
> pourquoi ne pas avoir impliqué OSM ? À moins que ce soit le cas et qu’on ne
> le sache pas encore ? Genre ils ajouteront leur base à celle d’OSM ou la
> rendront importable dans OSM ? J’en doute, vu le passé des échanges avec
> eux, mais sait-on jamais…
>
>
> Pour les PR, vu que la FFRP reste propriétaire du balisage, on ne pourrait
> ajouter que l’itinéraire, ce qui est moins utile – ici, c’est le randonneur
> qui parle : sans balisage, un itinéraire est moins pratique à suivre. Et
> encore, à supposer que l’administration en charge veuille bien qu’on ajoute
> l’itinéraire.
>
>
> --
> *De :* Jean-Claude Repetto 
> *Envoyé :* lundi 19 février 2018 14:26
> *À :* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> *Objet :* Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée
>
> La FFRP a déjà une action en cours pour effectuer tous les relevés de
> terrain sur les sentiers:
> https://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_248/ambitions-itineraires-
> pratiques-numeriques.aspx
>
> 
> FFRandonnée - Le programme numérique de la FFRandonnée
> 
> www.ffrandonnee.fr
> Le programme numérique de la FFRandonnée. Afin d'assurer au mieux ses
> missions et faciliter la pratique pour les randonneurs, la FFRandonnée
> s'est lancée dans un ...
>
>
>
> Dans chaque département, une équipe de bénévoles a parcouru tous les
> sentiers balisés et a relevé toutes les informations. Pas seulement le
> tracé, mais aussi toutes les informations annexes: panneaux, petit
> patrimoine, bancs, etc.
>
> Je pense que leur base de données est bien plus complète que celle
> d'OSM, dans laquelle beaucoup de sentiers sont encore absents.
>
> Pour info, dans certains départements, comme le 06, la FFRP ne gère que
> les GR. Les PR (balisage jaune) sont gérés par le département.
>
> Jean-Claude
>
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>


-- 
*Emeric PROUTEAU*




*Géomaticienemeric.prout...@gmail.com Avant
d'imprimer. Pensons à l'environnement.Save paper. Do you really need to
print this e-mail?*
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Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool

[David Woolley]

On 19/02/18 13:29, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

The raw branch list data can be found at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/  and it licensed under
the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names,
addresses, locations, and opening hours.


What does type=Crown mean, as one of those near me is marked as this, 
but is actually a concession in a W H Smith's?


I also note that the matching hasn't used the address.  For one of the 
others I mapped all the house numbers, but haven't mapped the businesses 
on that road, so there is a matching object, and it is very close to the 
postcode centroid, but it isn't recognized as matched.  I guess I can 
fix that, on an ad hoc basis.


I must fix another, which was a concession, but is now in a disused 
shop, so only the concession part is still operating, and the shop part 
is empty.


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[David Marchal]

Euh… Ils font dans leur coin ce qu’OSM leur propose depuis des années, 
proposition à laquelle ils n’ont jamais daigné répondre ? Certes, ils veulent 
proposer plus de fonctionnalités que ce que OSM seul propose, comme la remontée 
d’infos sur les sentiers, mais tout de même, je m’interroge : pourquoi ne pas 
avoir impliqué OSM ? À moins que ce soit le cas et qu’on ne le sache pas encore 
? Genre ils ajouteront leur base à celle d’OSM ou la rendront importable dans 
OSM ? J’en doute, vu le passé des échanges avec eux, mais sait-on jamais…


Pour les PR, vu que la FFRP reste propriétaire du balisage, on ne pourrait 
ajouter que l’itinéraire, ce qui est moins utile – ici, c’est le randonneur qui 
parle : sans balisage, un itinéraire est moins pratique à suivre. Et encore, à 
supposer que l’administration en charge veuille bien qu’on ajoute l’itinéraire.



De : Jean-Claude Repetto 
Envoyé : lundi 19 février 2018 14:26
À : talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

La FFRP a déjà une action en cours pour effectuer tous les relevés de
terrain sur les sentiers:
https://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_248/ambitions-itineraires-pratiques-numeriques.aspx
[http://www.ffrandonnee.fr/data/CMS/images/numerique/preview-video-numerique.jpg]

FFRandonnée - Le programme numérique de la 
FFRandonnée
www.ffrandonnee.fr
Le programme numérique de la FFRandonnée. Afin d'assurer au mieux ses missions 
et faciliter la pratique pour les randonneurs, la FFRandonnée s'est lancée dans 
un ...




Dans chaque département, une équipe de bénévoles a parcouru tous les
sentiers balisés et a relevé toutes les informations. Pas seulement le
tracé, mais aussi toutes les informations annexes: panneaux, petit
patrimoine, bancs, etc.

Je pense que leur base de données est bien plus complète que celle
d'OSM, dans laquelle beaucoup de sentiers sont encore absents.

Pour info, dans certains départements, comme le 06, la FFRP ne gère que
les GR. Les PR (balisage jaune) sont gérés par le département.

Jean-Claude

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[David Marchal]

Ça se tient. En tout cas, ça correspond aux retours qu’on a déjà eu de chez 
eux, et c’est leur intérêt légitime, mais quel dommage de rester dans un esprit 
de fermeture au lieu d’ouverture…



De : Axelos 
Envoyé : lundi 19 février 2018 15:13
À : talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

Voilà ma théorie à partir d'un cas similaire :
Garder l'exclusivité de ces données leur permet entre autre d’éviter que
des sociétés opportunistes ne récupère la valeur créé bien souvent
bénévolement par ces clubs, et leurs coupes l'herbe sous les pieds d'un
moyen de revenu.

Même si c'est une vision que je ne partage pas (comme nous tous
contributeurs d'OSM), ça se défend.

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[OSM-talk-fr] Meconnu.fr ?

[Vincent Bergeot]

Bonjour,

je suis tombé sur ce site, qui recense le petit patrimoine : 
http://meconnu.fr/


Je n'ai pas trouvé de traces de discussions sur cette liste, alors qu'il 
me semble qu'il y a de nombreux amateurs .


Avec une ambition (fort louable) collaborative. La plupart des fonds de 
cartes sont des fond OSM mais je ne pense pas qu'il y ait vraiment de 
liens autre que le fond de cartes ?


En savez vous un peu plus ?

Bonne journée

--
Vincent Bergeot


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Re: [Talk-es] Importación de Catastro. CatAtom2Osm no reconoce el archivo 'highway_names.csv'

[dcapillae]

¡Genial! Gracias, Javier. Corregiré la descripción en inglés y esta tarde
haré público el proyecto.

Aprovecho para comentarte un problema que estoy encontrándome en la
ejecución de CatAtom2Osm. Creo que el problema se debe a que CatAtom2Osm no
reconoce la información del archivo 'highway_names.csv' editado. Lo edito
con LibreOffice y lo guardo en formato '.csv', así que no sé que puedo estar
haciendo mal.

Siguiendo los pasos descritos en el wiki:

1º) Después de comprobar el callejero, elimino los archivos
'current_highway.osm' y 'highway_names.csv', y vuelvo a ejecutar
CatAtom2Osm.
2ª) Reviso nuevamente los resultados y edito el archivo 'highway_names.csv'
para corregir nombres de calles erróneos o que no quiero que se importen.
Dejo en blanco en la segunda columna los nombres de calles sobre los que
tengo dudas y guardo el archivo.
3º) Elimino el archivo 'current_highway.osm' y vuelvo a ejecutar
CatAtom2Osm.

Aquí me surge el problema. CatAtom2Osm no termina de procesar los archivos
en esta última ejecución, se detiene antes de terminar el proceso. En la
pantalla del terminal se muestran los siguientes mensajes:

INFO - Comienza el procesado de '29043'
INFO - Leídos 184 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.CP.29043.cadastralzoning.gml'
INFO - Municipio: 'Colmenar'
INFO - Generado '29043/boundary.poly'
INFO - Leídos 2621 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=address'
INFO - Leídos 3 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=postaldescriptor'
INFO - Leídos 131 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=thoroughfarename'
INFO - Generado 'address.geojson'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/main.py", line 111, in

run()
  File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/main.py", line 104, in run
process(args, options)
  File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/main.py", line 44, in
process
app.run()
  File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/catatom2osm.py", line 96,
in run
self.read_address()
  File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/catatom2osm.py", line 445,
in read_address
(highway_names, self.is_new) = self.get_translations(self.address)
  File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/catatom2osm.py", line 534,
in get_translations
highway_names = csvtools.csv2dict(highway_names_path, {})
  File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/csvtools.py", line 23, in
csv2dict
a_dict[row[0].decode(encoding)] = row[1].decode(encoding)
IndexError: list index out of range

En el archivo de registro 'catatom2osm.log' aparece básicamente lo mismo en
relación a esta última ejecución del programa:

INFO - Comienza el procesado de '29043'
INFO - Leídos 184 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.CP.29043.cadastralzoning.gml'
INFO - Municipio: 'Colmenar'
INFO - Generado '29043/boundary.poly'
INFO - Leídos 2621 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=address'
INFO - Leídos 3 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=postaldescriptor'
INFO - Leídos 131 características en
'29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=thoroughfarename'
INFO - Generado 'address.geojson'

El problema persiste tanto si dejo en blanco los nombres de calles en la
segunda columna del archivo 'highway_names.csv' como si elimino la línea
completa que hace referencia a esa calle. CatAtom2Osm parece que no reconoce
el archivo y siempre se detiene devolviendo el mismo mensaje de error.

¿Qué puedo hacer?



-
Daniel Capilla
OSM user: dcapillae 
--
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Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool

[David Woolley]

On 19/02/18 15:02, Ed Loach wrote:

The delivery office still has the post office tag on. Should it be tagged 
differently, or have a subtag added (post_office=delivery_office maybe?), or 
something else?


I would say amenity=post_depot; operator=Royal Mail.  Maybe not even 
that it you cannot collect undelivered mail there.


post_office implies a customer facing institution that, in the UK, 
provides various government services, as well as services related to 
letter post.


Generally, if you provide a new value to a key, it should be safe for 
data consumers to treat it as though it were yes.





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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[JB]

Bonjour,
Sauf erreur de ma part, la situation n'a pas avancé positivement depuis 
cette époque :

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2012-August/046340.html
http://forum.openstreetmap.fr/viewtopic.php?t=282
J'ai souvenir de retours négatifs de la fédération par un adhérent au CV 
qui aurait abordé le sujet, mais je n'ai retrouvé de traces.
J'ai trouvé une citation dans un mail privé de 2013 : « D'après des 
dires de membres de la FFRP, le Club Vosgien serait encore "pire" au 
niveau propriété intellectuelle... »
À David : adhérent ou pas, ça ne change pas forcément grand chose, si tu 
veux un coup de tampon de l'assoc' en plus, ça m'étonnerait qu'il te 
soit refusé. Si tu veux y aller « sérieusement » (au-delà d'un tweet, 
d'un mail râgeur ou d'un courrier sans suite), c'est chouette. Mais 
attends-toi à un travail de longue haleine, probablement en commençant 
par convaincre la base pour aller chatouiller la tête ensuite. Les 
groupes locaux vendent des cartes de randonnée locales avec leurs 
balisages en sur-impression, et se sentent dépossédés si quelqu'un 
d'autre pouvait en faire de même. Le numérique, les biens communs, ce 
n'est pas encore leur époque, pour ceux que j'ai pu rencontrer.

JB.
PS : et le CV et la FFRP se disputent toujours la propriété du GR5 dans 
les Vosges, il me semble…


Le 19/02/2018 à 09:35, David Marchal a écrit :


Aucune mention sur le Wiki, et je n’ai jamais entendu parler d’un 
accord. Je tenterais bien de l’obtenir, mais je ne suis pas membre de 
l’association OSM-FR et, autant que je sache, je n’ai pas de 
légitimité pour entamer une telle demande au nom de la communauté OSM, 
mais peut-être que ce n’est pas nécessaire ?


Pour l’interlocuteur, le balisage est la propriété intellectuelle de 
la fédération, bien qu’ils soient assez prodigues dans leurs 
autorisations d’usage pour autant que je sache. Par contre, je ne sais 
pas qui est responsable des itinéraires. Au moins certains comme les 
interdépartementaux ou les GR dans les Vosges dépendent logiquement de 
la fédération, mais d’autres sont probablement du ressort des clubs 
locaux, donc soit la fédération pourrait parler pour eux concernant 
tous les itinéraires, soit il faudrait voir avec chaque club pour les 
itinéraires de son ressort, ce qui serait moins pratique.


Cet échange pourrait également être l’occasion de leur faire connaître 
OSM, voire, qui sait, leur montrer comment enrichir OSM en s’en 
servant de base pour tenir leurs itinéraires à jour. Ce serait 
gagnant-gagnant : ils ne dépendraient plus de l’IGN pour leurs 
supports et la mise à jour de leur balisage sur leurs cartes, et OSM 
récupérerait des données en provenance directe de l’opérateur des 
sentiers.


Dans l’attente de vos réponses,

Cordialement



*De :* marc marc 
*Envoyé :* dimanche 18 février 2018 18:45
*À :* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
*Objet :* Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée
Le 18. 02. 18 à 16:38, David Marchal a écrit :
> Autant que je sache, la situation entre OSM et la FFRP est la 
suivante :

> la FFRP est au courant qu’on cartographie leurs itinéraires avec leur
> balisage, et ils n’ont jamais daigné dire s’ils nous donnaient leur
> accord ou pas. J’ai bon ?

exact.

> Qu’en est-il du Club Vosgien ?

Si quelqu'un a déjà eu un accord avec eu, j'imagine qu'il l'a renseigné
dans le wiki. as-tu fait une recherche ?
sinon, si tu as de bons contacts humains avec eux, tu es un bon candidat
pour essayer e l'obtenir :-)
Surtout que les plus petites structures sont peut-être plus réceptive
à faire connaître leur travail.

Cordialement,
Marc

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[Talk-de] OSMF sucht Rechenzentrum

[Frederik Ramm]

Hallo,

die Operations Working Group der OpenStreetMap Foundation hat den
Großteil ihrer Server, u.a. diejenigen, auf denen die API(-Datenbank)
läuft, in drei britischen Rechenzentren stehen. Eines der drei muss
geräumt werden, da die Räumlichkeiten künftig anders genutzt werden.

Die OWG sucht daher ein Rechenzentrum in der Europäischen Union, dessen
Netzwerklatenz zu den bisherigen Standorten idealerweise unter 20 ms
beträgt. Gesucht wird ein Rack für die Server, die sich im Eigentum der
OSMF befinden. Weitere Details zur Ausschreibung findet ihr hier:

https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for-proposals-data-centre-2018/

Die OSMF ist bereit, für die Dienstleistung zu bezahlen, kann sich
jedoch keine marktüblichen Preise leisten. Potentielle Standorte sind
daher Hochschulrechenzentren oder gewerbliche  Anbieter, die das Projekt
unterstützen möchten.

Wir denken, dass es sicherlich potentielle Partner in Deutschland gibt.
Es würde auch zum nicht unerheblichen Anteil der deutschen Community am
OpenStreetMap-Projekt passen, wenn wir nicht nur zu OSM beitragen
sondern auch einen Rechnerstandort in Deutschland hätten.

Die OWG hat leider nicht die personellen Ressourcen, um potentielle
Partner zu kontaktieren, daher sollten wir uns als deutsche Community
ein bisschen an der Arbeit beteiligen.

Hat jemand von Euch möglicherweise Kontakte zu potentiellen Hostern -
gewerblich oder im Hochschulbereich? Habt ihr Ideen, wen man fragen könnte?

Meldet Euch doch hier mit einem Followup oder direkt per Mail an Michael
oder mich, und wir koordinieren dann das Vorgehen ein bisschen.

Viele Grüße
Michael Reichert und Frederik Ramm

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz

[Michal Grézl]

zapomel sem ze to existuje:)
uz je to vyrobene jako mailing list, maily to prijima
ted jen hledam, kde se zapina automaticky subscribe

2018-02-19 13:52 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :
> Tak jsem to zkusil taky...
>
> You message for  from 2018/02/19 could not be
> delivered.
> It's attached below.
>
> Důvod / Reason:
> ---
>
> 5.0.0 smtp; 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected:
> User unknown in local recipient table
>
>
>
> Permanent Failure - Other or Undefined Status
>
>
>
>
> -- Původní e-mail --
> Od: Tom Ka 
> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
> Datum: 19. 2. 2018 9:18:38
> Předmět: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz
>
> Ahoj, dneska na mne rval twitter pri zadavani weekly:
>
> Je vaše e-mailová adresa aktivní? Zkoušeli jsme vám na
> d...@openstreetmap.cz posílat e-maily, ale vracejí se nám nedoručené.
> Aktualizujte nastavení e-mailu nebo zkuste zprávu poslat znovu na svou
> aktuální adresu.
>
> Walley?
>
> Bye Tom.K
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>



-- 
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http://openstreetmap.cz

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Re: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz

[Marián Kyral]

Tak jsem to zkusil taky...

You message for  from 2018/02/19 could not be
delivered.
It's attached below.

Důvod / Reason:
---

5.0.0 smtp; 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: 
User unknown in local recipient table



Permanent Failure - Other or Undefined Status




-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Tom Ka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 19. 2. 2018 9:18:38
Předmět: [Talk-cz] mail d...@openstreetmap.cz
"Ahoj, dneska na mne rval twitter pri zadavani weekly:

Je vaše e-mailová adresa aktivní? Zkoušeli jsme vám na
d...@openstreetmap.cz posílat e-maily, ale vracejí se nám nedoručené.
Aktualizujte nastavení e-mailu nebo zkuste zprávu poslat znovu na svou
aktuální adresu.

Walley?

Bye Tom.K

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[Jean-Claude Repetto]

Le 19/02/2018 à 09:35, David Marchal a écrit :
> Aucune mention sur le Wiki, et je n’ai jamais entendu parler d’un
> accord. Je tenterais bien de l’obtenir, mais je ne suis pas membre de
> l’association OSM-FR et, autant que je sache, je n’ai pas de légitimité
> pour entamer une telle demande au nom de la communauté OSM, mais
> peut-être que ce n’est pas nécessaire ?
> 
> 
> Pour l’interlocuteur, le balisage est la propriété intellectuelle de la
> fédération, bien qu’ils soient assez prodigues dans leurs autorisations
> d’usage pour autant que je sache. Par contre, je ne sais pas qui est
> responsable des itinéraires. Au moins certains comme les
> interdépartementaux ou les GR dans les Vosges dépendent logiquement de
> la fédération, mais d’autres sont probablement du ressort des clubs
> locaux, donc soit la fédération pourrait parler pour eux concernant tous
> les itinéraires, soit il faudrait voir avec chaque club pour les
> itinéraires de son ressort, ce qui serait moins pratique.
> 
> 
> Cet échange pourrait également être l’occasion de leur faire connaître
> OSM, voire, qui sait, leur montrer comment enrichir OSM en s’en servant
> de base pour tenir leurs itinéraires à jour. Ce serait gagnant-gagnant :
> ils ne dépendraient plus de l’IGN pour leurs supports et la mise à jour
> de leur balisage sur leurs cartes, et OSM récupérerait des données en
> provenance directe de l’opérateur des sentiers.
> 
> 
> Dans l’attente de vos réponses,
> 
> 
> Cordialement
> 

La FFRP a déjà une action en cours pour effectuer tous les relevés de
terrain sur les sentiers:
https://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_248/ambitions-itineraires-pratiques-numeriques.aspx

Dans chaque département, une équipe de bénévoles a parcouru tous les
sentiers balisés et a relevé toutes les informations. Pas seulement le
tracé, mais aussi toutes les informations annexes: panneaux, petit
patrimoine, bancs, etc.

Je pense que leur base de données est bien plus complète que celle
d'OSM, dans laquelle beaucoup de sentiers sont encore absents.

Pour info, dans certains départements, comme le 06, la FFRP ne gère que
les GR. Les PR (balisage jaune) sont gérés par le département.

Jean-Claude

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Benjamin Miller]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!

On 2018.02.19. 00:07, Clifford Snow wrote:
> Running the overpass query looking for user DaveHansenTiger produced
> around 30mb of data. 


There’s definitely plenty of work to do on the DaveHansenTiger ways, but I’d 
really like to include the bot-mode ways as well in the first round. By 
definition, any untouched TIGER ways that have a name are going to fall into 
the bot-mode group, and those seem to me like the most important ways to look 
at.

I’d already started breaking the data up into chunks by county—running the 
DaveHansenTiger query for the whole state should produce a visible blank spot 
in the northwest lower peninsula. I was planning on setting up Maproulette 
tasks for every county in the state and then open them up to some other 
Michigan mappers who might be interested. It’s a shame that Overpass-turbo 
can’t handle this query natively.

Are there any other tools that could process output from Overpass-turbo and get 
me to my goal? The JOSM suggestion is good, but I’d like to make this process 
available to mappers who don’t use JOSM.
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[Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

Some of you may have already seen that a few weeks ago I eventually
got a positive response from Post Office Ltd. (POL) to a request I
made for a re-usable list of their branches, and permission to use it
to help improve OpenStreetMap:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/re_use_request_for_post_office_d

The raw branch list data can be found at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/ and it licensed under
the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names,
addresses, locations, and opening hours.

I've adapted one of my previous comparison tools to compare the
dataset to what is currently in OSM, and the results can be seen at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/progress/ . I was hoping we'd
be able to use some form of automated matching and import, but I don't
think the data is quite good enough for that. In particular, the
locations aren't always accurate and sometimes appear not to have been
updated following a branch move. (Based on a small sample that I've
matched so far, it looks like 10-15% may be out by more than 100m.)
Also the address data isn't easy to automatically parse into the OSM
keys.

For those who are interested in using the tool to help improve Post
Office coverage, I've put together some mapping notes at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/mapping-notes.html . You'll
find various JOSM Remote Control links on the individual branch pages
(e.g. http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/branch/19669 ) but
please use these with care. If you want a source tag to add to
individual objects or the changeset, then I've been using
"pol_branch_list_2018-01".

To help match the dataset to OSM, I'd suggest adding the branch ID
number to the appropriate OSM objects. What has been supplied is the
primary key used in the Post Office Ltd database, which isn't the same
as the FAD code for the branch (which POL want to try to keep
confidential for some reason). Following other similar third-party
keys, my suggestion would be to use ref:pol_id=* for this number.
That's currently what the tool looks for, but if there's a consensus
to use a different key name, it would be easy enough to change it.

There are two other tagging issues it might be useful to discuss:

1/ When you have a post office that is a counter in a larger shop,
should you add amenity=post_office to the shop object, or create an
additional node specifically for the Post Office? I would usually do
the latter for counters in larger shops, but may to the former for
smaller village convenience stores where the Post Office part is more
central to the operation. (The tool will pick up either, and will cope
with opening_hours:post_office=* if the hours of the PO counter differ
from the main shop.)

2/ How to tag things that are functionally like post offices (e.g.
they provide mail sending / receiving services), but aren't Post
Office Ltd branches. This includes Royal Mail / Parcelforce public
offices, and private courier forms with high-street offices (e.g.
Doddle, Cnuk, Mail Boxes Etc). If these types of businesses are tagged
as amenity=post_office (which doesn't seem inappropriate given the
wiki definition) then it would be useful to have some way in the
tagging to be able to automatically distinguish them from Post Office
Ltd branches.

Robert.

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Richard Fairhurst]

Great to see so much attention being paid to rural TIGER fixup. The majority
of my editing these days is that, and it's a massive but rewarding job.

I put together a view a while back which superimposes unreviewed rural
residentials onto the Strava heatmap. The idea is that you look for
unobscured roads, then go in and fix them. It's at
http://osm.cycle.travel/unreviewed.html .

The "unreviewed" data comes from the cycle.travel rendering database, so
there are a few optimisations (for example, it knows that all State Routes
in NC are paved) and the update frequency is not fast (every month or two).
But it's a good way of finding roads that are regularly used (by cyclists,
at least) and are currently unreviewed.



The one thing I would stress above all is that a surface= key (or
equivalent) is crucial to denote unpaved roads - especially for cyclists and
non-4x4 motorists.

In the developed world in OSM, highway=unclassified and highway=residential
are assumed to be paved roads in the absence of other information. So in
(say) NY State, if you saw a highway=unclassified or highway=residential
without an explicit surface tag, you'd assume it was almost certainly paved.
Now in Kansas most roads are unpaved, but we can't expect people to do
state-specific parsing - that way lies madness. Indeed, very few consumers
do even country-specific parsing.

So absolutely do change rural residentials to highway=unclassified, but add
a surface= tag while you're there. A simple surface=unpaved is better than
nothing, though obviously if you can be more precise with =gravel,
=compacted, =dirt or whatever, that's great. I'd ask people setting up
MapRoulette challenges and the like to incorporate this into their
instructions - thank you!

Having good paved/unpaved information will be a massive boost for OSM in
comparison to other map providers. We're already partway there. As an
example, try asking Google Maps for bike directions from SF to NYC. It sends
you down some really, really unsuitable tracks and I'm not entirely
convinced you'd survive the journey. By contrast, cycle.travel (using OSM
data) gets it pretty much right: occasionally it takes a gravel road
unnecessarily but it's pretty much always rideable.

It would be great if we could become the best map of the rural US just as we
are for much of the rest of the world.

cheers
Richard



--
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Re: [Talk-es] Importación de Catastro. CatAtom2Osm no reconoce el archivo 'highway_names.csv'

[Juan Luis Rodríguez]

2018-02-19 16:11 GMT+01:00 dcapillae :

> ¡Genial! Gracias, Javier. Corregiré la descripción en inglés y esta tarde
> haré público el proyecto.
>
> Aprovecho para comentarte un problema que estoy encontrándome en la
> ejecución de CatAtom2Osm. Creo que el problema se debe a que CatAtom2Osm no
> reconoce la información del archivo 'highway_names.csv' editado. Lo edito
> con LibreOffice y lo guardo en formato '.csv', así que no sé que puedo
> estar
> haciendo mal.
>
> Siguiendo los pasos descritos en el wiki:
>
> 1º) Después de comprobar el callejero, elimino los archivos
> 'current_highway.osm' y 'highway_names.csv', y vuelvo a ejecutar
> CatAtom2Osm.
> 2ª) Reviso nuevamente los resultados y edito el archivo 'highway_names.csv'
> para corregir nombres de calles erróneos o que no quiero que se importen.
> Dejo en blanco en la segunda columna los nombres de calles sobre los que
> tengo dudas y guardo el archivo.
> 3º) Elimino el archivo 'current_highway.osm' y vuelvo a ejecutar
> CatAtom2Osm.
>
> Aquí me surge el problema. CatAtom2Osm no termina de procesar los archivos
> en esta última ejecución, se detiene antes de terminar el proceso. En la
> pantalla del terminal se muestran los siguientes mensajes:
>
> INFO - Comienza el procesado de '29043'
> INFO - Leídos 184 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.CP.29043.cadastralzoning.gml'
> INFO - Municipio: 'Colmenar'
> INFO - Generado '29043/boundary.poly'
> INFO - Leídos 2621 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=address'
> INFO - Leídos 3 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=postaldescriptor'
> INFO - Leídos 131 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=thoroughfarename'
> INFO - Generado 'address.geojson'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/main.py", line 111, in
> 
> run()
>   File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/main.py", line 104, in
> run
> process(args, options)
>   File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/main.py", line 44, in
> process
> app.run()
>   File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/catatom2osm.py", line 96,
> in run
> self.read_address()
>   File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/catatom2osm.py", line
> 445,
> in read_address
> (highway_names, self.is_new) = self.get_translations(self.address)
>   File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/catatom2osm.py", line
> 534,
> in get_translations
> highway_names = csvtools.csv2dict(highway_names_path, {})
>   File "/home/dcapillae/catastro/CatAtom2Osm/csvtools.py", line 23, in
> csv2dict
> a_dict[row[0].decode(encoding)] = row[1].decode(encoding)
> IndexError: list index out of range
>
> En el archivo de registro 'catatom2osm.log' aparece básicamente lo mismo en
> relación a esta última ejecución del programa:
>
> INFO - Comienza el procesado de '29043'
> INFO - Leídos 184 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.CP.29043.cadastralzoning.gml'
> INFO - Municipio: 'Colmenar'
> INFO - Generado '29043/boundary.poly'
> INFO - Leídos 2621 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=address'
> INFO - Leídos 3 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=postaldescriptor'
> INFO - Leídos 131 características en
> '29043/A.ES.SDGC.AD.29043.gml|layername=thoroughfarename'
> INFO - Generado 'address.geojson'
>
> El problema persiste tanto si dejo en blanco los nombres de calles en la
> segunda columna del archivo 'highway_names.csv' como si elimino la línea
> completa que hace referencia a esa calle. CatAtom2Osm parece que no
> reconoce
> el archivo y siempre se detiene devolviendo el mismo mensaje de error.
>
> ¿Qué puedo hacer?
>

Lo mismo Libreoffice está haciendo algo extraño cuando vuelve a guardar el
archivo en formato CSV.
Intenta abrir el archivo original con un editor de texto simple (notepad,
gedit, atom.io,...) y elimina las líneas no pertinentes y guarda.



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Juan Luis.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Itinéraires et balisages randonnée

[Alain VASSAULT]

Bonjour,

Par hasard (je cherchait des info sur les différentes signalétique existantes), 
je suis tombé sur cela:
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/chemins-de-randonnees-et-leur-signaletique/

Si une diffusion officielle même partielle des datas en obdl cela ne peut il 
pas "pousser" a l'ouverture du reste ?

Alain

Le 19 février 2018 17:40:50 GMT+01:00, Jean-Claude Repetto  a 
écrit :
>Le 19/02/2018 à 15:00, David Marchal a écrit :
>> Euh… Ils font dans leur coin ce qu’OSM leur propose depuis des
>années,
>> proposition à laquelle ils n’ont jamais daigné répondre ? Certes, ils
>> veulent proposer plus de fonctionnalités que ce que OSM seul propose,
>> comme la remontée d’infos sur les sentiers, mais tout de même, je
>> m’interroge : pourquoi ne pas avoir impliqué OSM ? À moins que ce
>soit
>> le cas et qu’on ne le sache pas encore ? Genre ils ajouteront leur
>base
>> à celle d’OSM ou la rendront importable dans OSM ? J’en doute, vu le
>> passé des échanges avec eux, mais sait-on jamais…
>
>J'ai discuté avec un président départemental de la FFRP lors de
>l'annonce de leur "projet numérique", en juillet 2013. Leur but était
>de
>valoriser le travail de leurs bénévoles afin de compenser la baisse des
>subventions aux associations (par exemple en éditant plus de
>topo-guides). Donc ils n'ont aucune intention de reverser ce travail à
>une base de données libre comme OSM.
>
>
>> Pour les PR, vu que la FFRP reste propriétaire du balisage, on ne
>> pourrait ajouter que l’itinéraire, ce qui est moins utile – ici,
>c’est
>> le randonneur qui parle : sans balisage, un itinéraire est moins
>> pratique à suivre. Et encore, à supposer que l’administration en
>charge
>> veuille bien qu’on ajoute l’itinéraire.
>
>Dans le 06, le balisage des PR est fait par le département. Donc je ne
>pense pas que la FFRP en soit propriétaire.
>
>Jean-Claude
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool

[Mark Goodge]

On 19/02/2018 14:37, David Woolley wrote:

On 19/02/18 13:29, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

The raw branch list data can be found at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/  and it licensed under
the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names,
addresses, locations, and opening hours.


What does type=Crown mean, as one of those near me is marked as this, 
but is actually a concession in a W H Smith's?


A Crown Post Office is one that is either managed directly by Post 
Office Ltd, or is provided as part of a national franchise agreement 
with a major retailer.


AIUI, WH Smith is, so far, the only retailer that has currently entered 
into such an arrangement, but I may be wrong.


The difference between a franchised Crown Post Office and a normal sub 
Post Office is that in the latter, the management of the Post Office and 
the non-PO retail are the same (typically, of course, a village shop 
that combines the role of Post Office and general store), whereas in a 
Crown franchise, the Post Office section is managed separately to the 
normal retail operation even if they share non-managerial staff.


Mark

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