Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule
17 dBi on 6 footer goes 32 miles here with 30 db fade margin @ 6 ghz Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: Can you tell me the frequencies in the 6 GHz bands that are desired? Are there any modulation limits, as to bandwidth and power output? What sort of distances are typically involved? A 6 foot dish can push a signal a very long distance or have a very high signal at a shorter distance. Lonnie On 8/6/05, A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: $20K is about right for the radios for a licensed path. $500 to $2000 for the path analysis and license. The market has set that price. If 200 ISPs that belong to WISPA indicated their interest.. Well Lonnie might make them or someone else. The chipsets are there to operate in those bands, getting the FCC to allow them to be used in that band is a challenge. Whatever anyone wants to say about improve our effiency in using existing spectrum, we need to be fighting for more at this point, since there will be a swell of DSL users moving to Fixed wireless over the next year, as Telcos attempt to dominate that marketplace. Which will in-turn cause more congestion on the airwaves. That and the Anti-competitive actions of telcos - pricing below cost, are the two areas I recommend we all focus on. Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Last I heard a guy could get a Harris system (both ends, just radios) for a shade under $20k. Might be a bit lower now as it's been a couple of years. For a 45 meg system that's pretty high by today's standards. Let me say this again guys. We're talking LICENSED bands here. Interference isn't an issue no matter what antennas etc. are used. If you get interference on YOUR band you can make the other guy stop. It's just that simple. I honestly see few down sides to this idea. I'd sure like to see more of the 300 or so companies here chime in. So far it's looking like 2 to 1 that we do nothing. I must admit I'm more than a bit shocked. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule Marlon and Lonnie, First Off, Lonnie I fully agree with your point that we should not suggest rules that discourage good design or make it to easy to do poor designs. However, saying we don't need more spectrum is rediculous, expecially in these urban areas with lots of competition. We need to gain access to every ounce of spectrum that we can. I FULLY agree with Marlon, that it would be a GREAT idea to find a way to have 6 Ghz more usable for us. It is factual that the 6 foot antenna requirement makes it near impossible for most WISPs to use the band cost effectively. I personally am effected by this and could have need for the band. However doing away with the large antenna rule all togeather I think would be a mistake. A PtP band with safety rules is advantageous. I'd suggest asking to modify the rules to the extent necessary to make it usable for us. For example, what if the min antenna size requirement was reduced down to a 3 ft dish? Thats still down to around 5 degrees, and pretty easy getting approval for a 3 ft dish. Marlon, whats the most cost effective 6 Ghz radios on the market today, excluding the antennas? Just so I understand the ball park we are talking about. When you say Licenced is still twice the cost, that doesn't mean much unless you identify wether you were talking about unlicenced redline or Trango :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule I think you guys are wrong on this. This is still a ptp band and it's licensed. So interference issues can be dealt with. As for links that are not correctly aimed. Why in the world would we want to give up on what could be a very useful rule change just because some minority (probably a very small minority) will likely screw up? Think, instead about how nice it would be if the manufacturers could modify today's relatively cheap 5 gig radios to do 6 gig. It's not all that much of a leap. But today MANY of you couldn't use that gear because you'd never be able to mount the antennas. Or because it's licensed gear it's still nearly twice the cost of unlicensed. It's easy to come up with reasons not to make changes. A man once told me that if no one ever changed we'd still all be eating with our fingers. Your points are valid but I don't think they are likely enough
Re: [WISPA] Trade SHows
I've always liked Wisconsin (well for the long and beautiful summer, sorry I can't come in Feb though wow, it can be cold)... I have to note here. This is really Scriv's idea, not mine and I don't want to step on his toes for this event. I don't know if he's going to chime in here, but I want him to give his blessing on whatever develops for a summer WISPA get together. I frankly am not all that stoked about WiNOG, since that was birthed by WISPA people, and then adopted, or kidnapped, if you prefer, when WISPA folk - me included, didn't jump in and get it organized and turned into a for-profit fest. All the best to it, but there's room for some jetskis and a different venue. Give me some smokin' watercraft, decent water, and some blue skys, a few other WISPs to BS with and I'm set for a hell of a good feeling weekend+.. A get together has always aligned with the non-profit, have fun, limit salesmanship - other than to each other by our mutual, hard one experiences - which are very very valuable. Be it in a tent by the river/lake or in an urban setting.. (motorcycles or aircraft - I'll play pilot - I managed earn a commercial multi-engine instrument rating some years ago) Not the same as a bunch of screaming jetskis chasing down the yachts.. ha ha ha.. Of course I'm exaggerating a bit here... WISPA water gang goes crazy... I can see the headlines now... Frankly, I *need* the vacation.. Dylan Oliver wrote: Spring Green, Wisconsin is truly lovely with all these damned hills.. I'll volunteer it! -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trade SHows
Its all a social thing for me. I don't go to shows to learn anything new much any more. Its all on the Web, or as you say, in the trade show demo / exhibit areas - you can ask some tough questions, like, when will the Atlas radios be working reliably? They rock when they work, but I'm on pins and needles about the links I'm testing going south. hmmm.. If we all end up someplace this year that's just for WISPs, I'll bring a pair and setup a link for the whole period of time and have a 'bake-off'.. No vendors allowed, or promoters.. Mac Dearman wrote: I personally am so sick of every F**ker trying to sell me something everytime I turn around. I am going to WispCon, but I aint paying to attend a damn thing. Someone will give me a pass for the exhibits and the rest of the sales BS can suck a limb. I do like going to these functions for the meeting of wireless buddies and meeting some I havent ever had the pleasure of meeting. I also like to rub elbows with the guys whose gear I do use. Mac Charles Wu wrote: Hi, Not sure what I did to get the WiNOG show blacklisted - but, taking our event out of the mix, if you were going to look at alternative WISP/ISP shows, I'd highly recommend checking out ISPCON http://www.ispcon.com Although wireless is just one component of the show, the Golden Group (show producers) is a highly professional organization that tries REALLY HARD to cater to the small ISP/WISP -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trade SHows
Hell of a deal.. Gets my vote so far.. Michigan is cold though isn't it? Been a long time since I was up there... Whatever we do, I think we should have one of these this year... The summer in Aspen is pretty much gone. We had 2 weeks in July and now its sweater weather, I kid you not. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I have a pair of 2004 stand up wave runners we can ride all around. Michigan would be a nice place for the gathering. What do ya'll think? It can be the Mid-West Tent Camp WISPA. Lets do this mid September. When and where, I'll be there. Mac Dearman wrote: awww dude, the day after the red red wine will make you feel like you rammed a freight train sometime in the night. I got to admit that I like the Chianti - - - but in really small quantities!! hehehehehe - you use the wicker jug that the Chianta comes in to put a candle in and place it on a shelf for a nice romantic, warm feeling here in Louisiana. I am all for a camp meeting somewhere - - please include me in the final destination, but the Mosquitoes down here are atrocious and I hear tales they stand flat footed and are have been known to have - - - - well - - - - they say sex with Turkeys, but thats probably giving them a bit much credit. I reckon what I am saying is make it when its cooler and a Mosquito free environment please :-) Swimming and jet skis would be a definite plus! I do have a Big Creek and about 300 acres of open field behind my house, but then there is the Mosquito thing and all my neighbors would bring their Chianta and candles in the wicker encased bottles - - - it would appear to be another seance and these local red neck Police would raid the party, drink the wine and break all the bottles - - - and then on Saturday mornings these folks get on a 14 x 8' plank board, drag behind a 25HP Evinrude (outboard) and a 14' aluminum boat and call it stump jumping- - - - - Big Creek won't work. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save my life)
My thought was : how can WISPA help improve safety for members? I climb more than I care to, frankly. Safety is the #1 objective. *nothing* is more important. Consider weather, weight, structure, attachment, ropes.. the list is long and I agree, a seminar/training is the way to go. Between jetski rides, I'd like to see that. :-) Mike Healy wrote: H, sounds to me like you better find a class than can teach you common sense cause you sure ain't got any. I agree with Bob's rant. with one addition... IF (and that is a big if) the local fire dept has a ladder it is only going to go up less than 100' for one and they are not trained (in general) in plucking someone off the side of a tower. My suggestion. spend the money on the training and equipment to do it right before you hurt (or kill) yourself or someone else... Just my $.02 worth Mike Brian Rohrbacher wrote: To be completely honest. Only if it's free. Otherwise, I'll stay tied off 100% of the time and not let anyone stand below me. From there, I'll just pick up pointers as I go along and use common sense (something no class can teach me). A. Huppenthal wrote: How about a training seminar for climbing - OSHA safe. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Actually, I already own it. Bill Curd sold me his extra one 2 weeks ago. George wrote: Hey order the one with the aluminum bar seat in it. It's only like 20 dollars more, and it's a lot more comfortable to be on a tower in. http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10193 I just got one for my guy and hey says it's way more comfortable than the other one and he can spend more time on a tower. George Bob Moldashel wrote: Brian Rohrbacher wrote: last chance. I am ordering. Well, it's been 3 yearsbut it's time for a harness. Up until now I only climbed grain legs. I am going to go up a 90ft Rohn 25g style tower. It there anything else I need. Yeah...How about some training??? Can I get some links to the rope and pulleys ya'll use? http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10234-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10241-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10511-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10192 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I tie off to my waist and, if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the tower leg and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled with tools - I bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - its heavy and bulky, but better than having to return to the ground. I usally wear just one glove, that way if the ice on the tower is bothering my bare hand I can just hold on with the gloved hand. I find it challanging when the wind is blowing just before an electrical storm to get to the highest part of the tower before I hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the flash, and if I can get to 3, I know I'm safe. Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with one hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, I make sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it through the tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on one hand - usually the bare one. Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood cuts off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know I'm safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 tower, it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you pull really hard, you can normally get it loose. And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, or complain if you are dead in a day of climbing. Mac Dearman wrote: I meant 3 people on this list!!! Mac Mac Dearman wrote: I would be willing to bet that their aint more than 3 people who have actually attended and completed a climbing school. I have been climbing for years and have never been to an actual school that I had to pay for. I have yet to fall, bust a chin or a nut on a tower. I may fall in the morning, but it won't be because I wasnt tied off - - - I am worth more dead than alive in ca$h - - - so someone hire a private detective to check my wifes knife along with my lanyard :-) Good common sense is worth more than anything I can think of. I have had some private tutoring by seasoned pro's that has been a great help. I would attend and pay for professional training even today if there was such a thing anywhere in the South. My best advice is to get training, but if you cant - - take your time as you climb, be sure you are 100% locked off and no drinking alcohol or smoking pot...etc before climbing and ALWAYS wear sunglasses, gloves and take water!!! NEVER CLIMB ALONE - always have someone on the ground watching for you and paying attention - - not sleeping! If you get scared, come down easy and try again another day. No war was ever won in a single day!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
:-) Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, add a blindfold, take a swig of whiskey to keep warm, go alone, leave your cell phone and radio behind, and don't check the guywires, see how far you can sway the tower at the top, and bring a parachute.. :-) oh yea.. :-) Unlike my alter ego in the mock note I wrote, I'm always super careful on climbing. It requires extensive planning, teamwork, double safety procedures, vigilence about weather. We were on Sunlight Peak in June and a freak storm hit - within 15 minutes of getting off the tower - ice pellets, rain, lightning. We were a few hundred yards from the last tower on the Peak - just 10 minutes before all hell broke loose. In the Rockies, storms can appear without much warning - so you depend on your ground personnel to keep an eye out. We use weather radar on notebook pc's tied into the net, to supplement pre-planning reviews. Everything makes a difference, from hair cut, to clothes, boots, to safety equipment, glasses to organizational items. I use a small backpack with clips, organized so it can be attached nearby and serve as a small tool bag, hardware spare parts kit, walkie talkie holder, all at about 5 lbs. I do take duplicate tools, all the standard bolt/nut sizes we have on the tower (3 wrenches) and spares, along with 2 small adjustable wrenches. Just having a climbing bag outfitted properly is crucial, as far as I'm concerned. To someone who hasn't been up there it may seem trivial. I want every second to count, every movement to be preconsidered, everything I need in its proper place, and within easy reach. Years ago, I realized having to make a second trip because someone pulled vinyl tape out of the kit or splicing tape, or a 5/16ths speed wrench doesn't cut it. While I prep each trip, I'm thinking we'll have a 'hands-off' pack with duplicate equipment for the climb. Using a hauling rope to bring up a new bag with missing tools is dangerous, unpleasent, and unnessary. Take a course, work with experienced people, don't hold out for cheaper gear, clip in often, rest, relax, focus, tell your pals to shut up while you are climbing, clip in, rest before you go, as some one said - bring water, dehydration is real at altitude - if you have a feeling about not climbing *don't*, trust your skeptical instinct. If you don't have the experience, don't climb. If you want to practice, go up 4 feet off the ground and do everything you plan on doing 100 feet up. You fall from 4 feet up, you are going to hurt, but you'll like be alive. Get to know all your gear within a few feet of the ground - practice using your backup ropes, gear, repell from a low height. Always have a backup. And finally, don't listen to me. I'm not an instructor, and I'm not getting paid to write this. I do care about any of you that are climbing. It is dangerous - but fun, and exhilerating - if done properly. :-) Take the course, be careful. Stay alive. George wrote: :) Alex You forgot to mention the blindfold. Too funny. :) Glad wisps have a cents of humor George A. Huppenthal wrote: First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I tie off to my waist and, if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the tower leg and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled with tools - I bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - its heavy and bulky, but better than having to return to the ground. I usally wear just one glove, that way if the ice on the tower is bothering my bare hand I can just hold on with the gloved hand. I find it challanging when the wind is blowing just before an electrical storm to get to the highest part of the tower before I hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the flash, and if I can get to 3, I know I'm safe. Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with one hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, I make sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it through the tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on one hand - usually the bare one. Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood cuts off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know I'm safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 tower, it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you pull really hard, you can normally get it loose. And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, or complain if you are dead in a day of climbing. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Not true. Minority stakeholders are actually protected from this behavior in many states. I think the level is 15% in Colorado. If you aren't careful raising money you could end up with your Popsicle in a wringer. Check investment rules. If you take money which exceeds the a certain percentage of an individual's net worth, you could be in trouble. If you don't disclose risks you could be in deep weeds. You can find Angel investors - just google around for incubators or angel investors. They can and do know how to invest and how to help your company grow. Be prepared to sell off more of your company though as time moves forward. Charles Wu wrote: sure a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc) think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to just invest it into a company when the majority partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse? -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com http://www.wispnog.com/ August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dylan Oliver *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Charles, would you expand on that? On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will be willing to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as that is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money That said, there is a fool born every day -Charles -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Part-15 Katrina Disaster Relief Effort Chief of StaffPositions
Is it possible to post on the part-15 email distribution list for items Mac needs for the WISPA crew? I'm not a member of the Part-15 list, so.. JohnnyO wrote: Part-15 Disaster Relief Effort JohnnyO -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Sabrina Smith-Sweeney *Sent:* Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:04 AM *To:* wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* [WISPA] Part-15 Katrina Disaster Relief Effort Chief of StaffPositions As Part-15's role in the Katrina Relief Effort has grown, so has the need for more organization. This is a huge, complex project and structure is necessary to keep all the elements working smoothly together. Here is what Michael, Sabrina, and Claudia intend to put into place. We need *your *help in making it work. To manage transportation, finance, technical decision-making, personnel, and equipment procurement and distribution, the project needs five (5) volunteer Division Chiefs. The Division Chief positions are outlined below. If you are interested please e-mail me off-line at [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] stating which position you are interested in as well as your qualifications. Examples of experience would help us get to know you and make an informed decision. These positions are all remote and will not require your presence on-site. As we gear up they will be labor intensive and require long hours. We are also hoping to recruit individuals who will be able to contribute for an extended period of time. Each position will require a combination of independent work and team work. All positions require an ability to monitor the listserv for content relevant to your responsibilities. *Technical Coordinator* - Responsible for managing the many different technical requirements. This will include managing technology-specific coordinators who are working on pulling together / managing others in their specialty. *Chief of Transportation* - Responsible for coordinating transportation of volunteers and supplies to and from staging sites, between staging sites, and from staging sites to work sites. This includes research of possible transportation options as well finding shippers and coordinating volunteer vehicles. *Chief of Finance* - Responsible for tracking expenses and managing donated funds. Includes deciding how limited donated funds should be used. *Chief of Personnel* - Responsible for monitoring and identifying site personnel needs, recruiting appropriate personnel, and assigning personnel to roles, projects, and teams. You will work closely with Site Team Chiefs to meet site personnel needs and Chief of Transportation to help the volunteers get to their work site. *Chief of Supply* - Responsible for monitoring and identifying site equipment and supply needs, tracking inventory, and assigning equipment and supplies to sites. This requires significant coordination with Site Team Chiefs to meet site needs and with the Chief of Transportation to help get equipment and supplies to the appropriate sites. This position requires an understanding of the many types of technical items that will be used. You do not have to know how to run them all, but you do need to understand what they are. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams ForFCCPresentation on Thursday
I agree Rich, and nice to see you are in the group here. Perhaps the Powerpoint presentation slides having to do with WISPA can simply have WISPA logo in brilliant color in each frame, and the agreement as to what is presented clearly has slides with appropriate source ID's - like a Logo, and identifies the group. For example: WISPA Section WISPA Organized Hurricane Relief WISPA _ Who Are They? Non-profit organization committed to rural wirelesss communications (tweak) WISPA Members that participated Mac et.al. WISPA Communications For Refugees Goal: is to quickly create communications infrastructure using TCP/IP technologies to provide telephone and data communications among Refugees, Releif providers, family and others. Number of groups serviced Other services WISPA collected funds Summary of contributions from WISPA and others through WISPA.. WISPA Estimated Man Hours Expended WISPA recommended future actions for Emergency Actions Integration with Ham operators for Ham to TCP/IP infrastructure Importance of flexible, failure tolerant systems Importance of unlicensed spectrum in terms of speed of deployment WISPA commitment to future Emergency Relief Internal plans - Sorry this is so hastily written, but I'm off to work again.. :-) If Matt or Marlon can go, great. If Mike agrees with the verbatim slides, great. nice of him then. rcomroe wrote: Done a zillion remote meetings using streaming video/audio. Not appropriate for an FCC presentation. Come on, guys. The real issue is what is said, not who is saying it. What you need to do is to have WISPA leadership collaborate with P-15 leadership to come to mutual agreement on what is presented. That will suit everyone's needs. But beware: Do not settle for simply providing material as a substitute. Submitting material to another group to use or not use as they see fit will not represent your interests, guaranteed. What's called for is a collaboration and sign-off on what is presented. It doesn't have to be face-to-face ... people remotely email revisions back forth on an every day, hour, or even minute basis in collaborative construction. This can work, only if there's someone in your group willing to collaborate to make it happen (and both parties are willing to see that it's accomplished). The issue of who does the presentation may be set in stone, but if both parties are willing to agree that what is presented should be agreeable to both, it can happen. Rich - Original Message - From: Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:40 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams ForFCCPresentation on Thursday Video stream Mac from the field into the FCC meetingBrad -Original Message- From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams ForFCCPresentation on Thursday John Scrivner wrote: I know Matt has been away from home a bunch lately but I think we should send Matt Larsen to this FCC event if he will go. We can take the $500 from Charles as part of the expense and have WISPA cover the rest. I think we need a front line guy to speak at this event. I think we should ask Michael to introduce Matt and yield a bit of his time if the FCC will not grant Matt his own time. This shows unity between industry groups and gives Part-15 and WISPA both an opportunity to show our efforts in helping those in need. Thoughts? Scriv I agree that Matt would do well if he could find someone to talk to. And he would be in the top of the list of people I would want to go to Washington and represent us. However, Marlon, if he has the time, has experience of roaming the halls of the FCC looking for someone to talk to. Maybe Marlon would be a better choice in this instance? WISPA hasn't been formally invited to talk to the FCC people, so the person that goes will need to cold call, which might be difficult to do. I think this is the perfect time to talk to Washington, and make sure or reinforce that it was WISPA quick actions that got phone, broadband, and computers into the hands of the displaced. Mac Dearman and WISPA were First Responders We need to make sure that we get this credit right away. As time passes on, a lot will be forgotten and it will be much harder to get the type of exposure we now deserve. It would also be good to sometime in the future have a special trip to Washington for the member wisps of wispa who were effected and those who volunteered the time and effort to be quick responders. Guys like Mac need to be recognized for their quick actions, especially in light of how slow it took the government to respond. Just my thoughts. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISPTeams ForFCCPresentation on Thursday
happy at the same time. Sound impossible? It does to me! The real fact is, Michael Anderson has done a trememdous amount for our industry in the last 5 years. Not everything he does is approved by everyone, how can it be. Heck that is why WISPA got started in the first place. Is WISPA perfect, no way, we get criticized all the time for different things. Face it, our industry is a group of rather independent thinkers and businessmen that want to prove that they can do it on their own. We are all leaders in our own minds, we bring solutions to people everyday that make their lives better. I personally think it is time for the Part-15 leadership and the WISPA leadership to unite our efforts or our fragmented industry will crumble a slow death. For some that means swallowing some crow, but if we truly care about the industry and our future, we need to open our eyes, recognize our weaknesses and other's strengths and combine these resources to create a powerful team. Ok, flame away! :P Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:53 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams ForFCCPresentation on Thursday I agree w/ Alex and will take this one step further Mike has a history of taking undue credit for other's actions At this risk of sounding anti Part-15, in order for WISPA to establish credibility to its members and the FCC, it needs to be able to stand on its own 2 feet as a separate organization with SEPARATE REPRESENTATION Another fact worth noting is the effectiveness of the WISPA (Dearman and a group of 20+ volunteers who ACTUALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE) response vs. Part-15's response. Mac and co have made an IMMEDIATE impact and have gotten exposure on the national news media, while Part-15's efforts got bogged down and ultimately ended up getting lost in the shuffle. At this point, it seems to me that Part-15 is trying to ride WISPA's coat-tails Personally, I think it would be best for Michael to not try to take the spotlight but step aside and turn the FCC presentation over to someone who was actually in the trenches (e.g., a WISPA representative or maybe someone from Mac's crew). That said, unfortunately, with a new baby due this month, my schedule has been filled with diaper changing classes and I have been unable to devote the time/energy that many other volunteers have had; however, I would like to support this effort (and help establish WISPA's credibility) by putting $500 up for a WISPA REPRESENTATIVE to travel to DC to represent WISPA's HURRICANE RELIEF EFFORT in front of the FCC Back to diaper changing class... -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams For FCCPresentation on Thursday Steve, Its great the FCC asked Mike to speak to them. He can only represent those people and businesses that establish him as their representative. I have Scriv, Marlon and Rick as well as other WISPA members who represent my interests. I'm curious to understanding what Mike wants to speak about as well as seeing whatever materials he's producing for his 5 minute talk. If he'd like to represent me, I'd like to better understand what his platform is, motivation, interests, previous qualifications, and so on. This looks like a nice opportunity and if Marlon could go along and speak for me, that would be great. I know Marlon, and unfortunately, I don't know Mike, except as a leader of a for-profit organization which uses FCC part15 as its main interest. Congratulations to Mike and his company for getting FCC attention. Its great PR for his company. Whatever he can do to convey that WISPs need more spectrum, better anti-trust legislation that is to say - some policing of mega-business policies and better co-ordination among BLM and FS with WISPs would be wonderful. If he would add his support for WISPA and suggest that the FCC should support WISPA's non-profit effort to create a forum for Part15 associated issues and interests would be greatly appreciated by me. It would be wonderful to see additional FCC interaction with the WISPA organization and its membership. Perhaps he could suggest a periodic meeting between the FCC and WISPA membership? Thanks for the good news that the FCC is paying attention to Independents and their representatives. I hope he invites Marlon or at least mentions that Marlon and WISPA exist and are making good progress. Cheers, AH
Re: [WISPA] LA team update
Mac, Let me introduce Mark Gamrat. Mark is Director of Communications for Pitkin County. He is in Louisiana currently working on WiFi setups. Perhaps there's mutual benefits to working together. I'm copying Mark so he has your contact information. -Alex he can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mac Dearman wrote: Good morning everyone, We are running around finishing up the needed packing as well as rolling up the 40x80 tent and getting it in the trailer this morning. We are trying to be sure that we save enough room in the trailer to roll my big BBQ pitt in the wagon as well. It seems a lot of the men have taken a liking to it put the requestion in for it. Can you haul port-a-pottys' with the chemical in them? We have two on site here and it sure would be nice to take them with us as the sewer systems down there are non functional. We have a 18 wheeler trailer (dry box) that we are using to make the move in and would have (make enough room for) these two if they can be transported. We are going down to bring Internet connectivity, PCs and VOIP to three places initially. One is a shelter that has 300+ evacuees that are local to Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi. One of them is the camp site of City Team and one other camp other than our own. We are also splitting up and making a second team with a relay yard in Alexandria, Louisiana where there are so many shelters without any of the resources that we are providing. The big trailer will initially be deployed in Alexandria. Our intentions are to provide as long and as fast as we can. We will be pulling out of here after while headed South. -- Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-303-4229 318-303-4231 318-450-4349 - Monroe, La 318-303-4227 - NOC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WISPCon
Your best bet for a commercial trade show is to approach vendors presenting there. Check the site and contact any of the vendors - they have a vested interest in selling you stuff and therefore have an interest in getting you in the door. The organizers are interested in making money off you and the vendors, so they are your worst bet (well except for any WISPA yet to be announced meetings :-) Jory Privett wrote: As a WISP paid member does anyone know where I can get discount passes to WispCon in Dallas October 9-11? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Mac: icecast, or other broadcast
Mac, I recall there are number of simple voice casting technologies out there. I know you all are likely not up for more work, but I'd really welcome a periodic discussion via some internet audio broadcast technology. I've messed with Icecast and Shoutcast a bit, but never really set it up with a server so others can connect. It would be interesting to have a few people talk about their experiences from time to time, be it on-site volunteers, or those being helped, or whomever walks by.. :-) Just a thought. -Alex -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] rooftop leasing?
if need be, post a bond. Aubrey Wells wrote: How is it none of their business? The business plan is none of their business, but the financials certainly are. Just like any other lease agreement you enter in to (car, house, apartment, whatever) they want to make sure you can pay up before they give you the lease. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] rooftop leasing? None of their business. We had a request like this, and claimed that it was unfair business practice, and the landlord dropped their request for such information. Probably ended up costing us that extra $100 / month but our financial statements are no one's business. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dan Metcalf Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] rooftop leasing? Aftering spending almost 8 weeks trying to get a lease with a rooftop provider, they come back at us with a request for a business plan and financial statement before going forward --- Thoughts? Has anybody had a request like this before? We haven't Thanks Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tony Weasler Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cogent - Level3 On 10/6/2005 1:03 PM, Tom DeReggi created: To set the record straight, no peering agreements were violated between L3 and Cogent. I heard otherwise, however I can't prove that. Cogent on their own web site said that agreements were not violated: "Level 3 terminated its peering with Cogent without cause (as permitted under its peering agreement with Cogent) even though both Cogent and Level 3 remained in full compliance with the previously existing interconnection agreement." http://status.cogentco.com/ There is also no confirmed evidence that L3 is blocking Cogent traffic through Cogent's Verio transit (which Cogent pays $$ for.) There was evidence. I wish I saved my traceroutes yesterday. To make more clear, Cogent is our backbone. When going to www.logmein.com, the last successfull hop was a peer labelled similar to verio.cogentco.com, meaning we crossed over to Verio's side. (the actual name was more meaningful). Now today, the traffic destined for that site stops cold at the first hop from our network, meaning it does not get routes from Level3 on where to send the data, once we enter Cogent's network. Unless you are referring that Cogent is blocking any advertised route info from Level3, which is highly unlikely. If Level3 was allowing our IPs to go through Verio's link, we would receive routes to route our packets in that direction across Cogent's network, and packets would travel further into Cogent's network (such as to the Verio link). If Cogent blocked traffic to Verio, it would most likely block it at the peer, not at the entry to Cogent's network from us as their client. This isn't evidence of blocking on L3's side. It could be because Cogent only purchases transit to certain prefixes and L3 isn't one of them (and Verio is filtering the announcements.) It could be because Cogent internally uses traffic engineering to prevent L3 traffic from reaching them over their Verio transit circuits. One of the two scenarios is likely given their peering arrangement with L3. I didn't see any table entries on the L3 San Diego looking glass for AS174. I saw only one route on their Denver looking glass through AS7018. Does that mean that L3 is filtering or that Cogent's announcements aren't reaching L3 for other reasons? The former is probably correct, but that's not something that can be easily demonstrated. I couldn't find a looking glass in AS174 which would allow me to see Cogent's tables from the inside. Cogent does appear to be announcing their Verio link to other peers, however. I see direct announcements for AS174 and an announcement for Sprint-Verio-Cogent, but not an ATT-Cogent path. I think that both carriers are at fault. Both companies should have resolved this before it came to reducing connectivity for their customers. They both should be held accountable by their customers. I replied to your original post, Tom, because Cogent made a public statement which directly contradicted yours and I thought that people on the list should have a more complete story [1]. You could be entirely correct about there having been a contract violation. I am confident that a
Re: [WISPA] Senao Question
3054s were troublesome for us, we don't use them any longer, so don't have any news on later firmware/hardware. 802.11b stuff from Senao is great. Dylan Oliver wrote: Speaking of Senao ... I just ran across some really nasty reviews of the nl-3054 CB3+. My client wants to share a cable connection at one house with two others with LOS and within 100ft. Sounds easy enough, but those reviews (worst product ever) have me looking again elsewhere. But nothing else seems to offer WPA. The 802.11g is nice, but could pass. Anyone have anything decent to say about these? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Secondary DNS
In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners. How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS geographically seperated? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS
True, if there's no web or email services, then having DNS doesn't do much for you. nice to spool up email someplace else, if your network is toasted - like a hurricane. once all our network are interconnected with 100 mbit pipes, we can worry about backing each other up. :-) in the mean time, there are commercial solutions... Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Two things. I figure if both dns servers are at the same place and both go down then probably I've got other problems that will take it all down anyhow. Secondly, I've just split my network in two. So I do have geographic and provider redundancy. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Secondary DNS In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners. How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS geographically seperated? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS
pick your closest WISP and connect up.. :-) You might need to swap some routing info or setup static routes. tell them to connect to the next WISP in the general direction from you to him, until we're all hooked up. :-) this could just be a natural interconnect approach. Someone did a map some time ago that attempted to list ISPs locations on Google maps. Scott Reed wrote: I have a tower I would love to have as a hop on a 100M pipe between WISPs. How do we get started? Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ *-- Original Message ---* From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:05:10 -0600 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS True, if there's no web or email services, then having DNS doesn't do much for you. nice to spool up email someplace else, if your network is toasted - like a hurricane. once all our network are interconnected with 100 mbit pipes, we can worry about backing each other up. :-) in the mean time, there are commercial solutions... Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Two things. I figure if both dns servers are at the same place and both go down then probably I've got other problems that will take it all down anyhow. Secondly, I've just split my network in two. So I do have geographic and provider redundancy. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com http://www.odessaoffice.com//wireless www.odessaoffice.com http://www.odessaoffice.com//marlon/cam - Original Message - From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Secondary DNS In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners. How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS geographically seperated? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ *--- End of Original Message ---* -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RE:Secondary DNS
I agree with you, DNS traffic normally is pretty low. Do you all just swap phyiscal boxes? That something I hadn't heard of before. Seems like a good idea. Justin Wilson wrote: -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:11:04 -0600 From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Secondary DNS To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners. How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS geographically seperated? What we do, and still do, is trade with other providers for backup servers. We like to find providers that have different backbones than we do. We usually trade box for box. Works out quite well. Hardly notice the traffic. Justin -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone Know George?
maybe its lambdawireless, not lanbdawireless? John Scrivner wrote: I had a new membership request for WISPA Principle Membership from George Vastardis from Lamda Communications. I tried to get him registered in the WISPA signup server and get this when I send him an invitation to join: Unknown host: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone know him? Can someone tell him we are having trouble getting back to him? Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Senao Question
have you compared with the Tranzeo product? Brian Rohrbacher wrote: This is why I was asking more about pricing. I use these http://www.demarctech.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24_38products_id=147osCsid=24262290b45598f284b297f1cd496d87 and I buy them at $194 each. They come with mounting hardware, POE, ethernet lightning protection and integrated ready to hang. I am always looking for something else, but I always end up determining Demarc is the best. So, for a 250mw radio with 15 DBi antenna, I don't see anything better out there. I really like the BW limiting at the CPE. This is where upload is suppose to be limited. Brian Richard Strittmatter wrote: Hrm. $145.18 I am paying around $160 for the Tranzeo CPE200-15 in qty 20 pricing. Couple things that are missing from your quote is the assembly time, and the POE injector. One of the reasons we use the tranzeo's over the CB3 is assembly time on the roof, and external cable connection, external led's, and since they are just a CB3 with custom firmware, they work just as well. Their poe also has a ground drain wire ( notice I'm not saying surge supressor here.. ) R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis. NoDial.net Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senao Question All prices from wisp-router.com. You may find better prices elsewhere, but Eje's usually seem to be in line. 2611 CB3 Deluxe = $94.83 (qty 24) PacWireless Rootenna = RT24-14 = $36.90 (qty 25) UML (Satellite Arm) = $13.45 A 3 inch piece of Velcro tape holds in in just fine. They seem to handle 100 degree + days in South Texas without any problem. I don't think I have had any fail due to heat or cold. It got down to the teens last winter. Pete Davis NoDial.net Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Pete, Will you list out all the parts and prices of this 200mw CPE? Is this outdoor, POE? It is kind a build your own? What temperatures is this operation in? Brian George wrote: Pete Davis. NoDial.net wrote: I like the features of the Tranzeos, the Smartbridges, etc etc, but at $100 more per CPE, my 200 2611 clients would have cost me $20k more. If anyone can tell me another way to get a 36db POE client for less than $150 PLEASE contact me off list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I learned that the hard way. Pete Davis NoDial.net Well I would say that Teletronics EZ Bridges were good. I have 500 +/- of them. And they have a 200MW version. But lately, I've been getting some bad ones in my orders. The 100mw pcb kit is 100.00 or so and the 200mw is 125.00 or so. But I would caution buyer beware, since buying the pcb only version and not the full fledges outdoor unit, I've noticed a lot of doa''s and unstable units. Will be nice when StarVX Lonnie gets his single radio cpe. I understand it may be in the price range you mentioned. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Will this bother WISPs?
i tested from here and my modem only does 45Kbits/sec :-) Mac Dearman wrote: Dang - I couldnt get but 691kbps :-) turn me up George Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 318-376-2562 - cell George wrote: my test site: http://www.oregonfast.net/speedtest/ George danlist wrote: What test site? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Will this bother WISPs? George wrote: Service is #1 after a person gets on to broadband. Service is our edge. George I just left a new installs house. While there his speed test results were saying 3,400 to 4,300k. I told the guy, look it's smokin, nobody goes this fast He said, yeah man, thats why I got yours, everyone knows your the fastest. So speed is a great advertizer as well. Speed # 2. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 10/27/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge
Its true, Internet is an option.There are lots of people in the valley here that never want it. As to billing, paying per bit won't happen except for the Cellular companys who have per minute everything in place as it is. You'd think that since telephone service was flat rate some time ago, you couldn't reverse the trend, but ah ha! If you have something like cellular for Internet you can. The demand needs to overcome the view that you are being screwed if you pay per bit. If its obvious you are being screwed something needs to be done.. Suspending that belief that's the result of compelling applications and great marketing and some peer pressure. Do you think 8 to 18 year olds really give a damn if Dad is paying per bit or flat rate.. no way. IM just has to be there, all the time, and so does picture and video transfer.. ;-) The core sales center for cellular isn't you any longer, its 8 to 18 year olds. Its a bit different for fixed wireless. Tom DeReggi wrote: Without electricity, you are blind or get heat stroke. Without gas (propaine /natural), you freeze to death. Without water, you dehydrate or get desease (no bathing). All above things considered necessities, up there with food. People could die without them. TV, Phone, Internet on the other hand are luxeries, things that people rely on, but would survive if they did without. I've never seen someone die from TV/Phone/Internet with drawal, although you never know it could happen. There is however financial benefits of having those luxeries, and there are general safety benefits of having the above. The way to tell the difference is to see how much someone will pay for something. Leave someone in the desert heat for a week, and then see how much they'll pay you for the last bottle of water. If its a matter of life or death they'd pay thousands. When someones electricity goes out in the winter, they won't even flinch at going to a hotel for a night or two at $150 a night. But then tell a consumer you have a $300 setup fee for their residential Broadband wireless service and see how quick they hang up the phone on you! If a consumer doesn't put a high value on a service, then it is NOT a necessity. NObody has ever refused to pay $150 a month for an electric bill, why are they so resistent to pay $50 a month for a residential Internet service? Because it is NOT a necessity. There is a big difference, it may however become a COMMODITY. Something that someone expects to have cheap and widely available. But a commodity is in no way a necessity. So I in know believe INternet/phone/and TV should be in the same catagory as necessities like utilities.. But I do believe that the world increases its standards as life and technology progresses. Why settle for the minimum? People WILL demand things basic communication rights, like TV/Phone/Internet. Not because its a necessity, but becaues its a luxury that no one should be without based on the high standard of living that the US life has made possible. A simple question is asked, why shouldn't every person in America have complete communications? What barrier could possibly justify not being able to accomplish it? Withholding something that is easilly deliverable is just plain evil. The technology is here today to offer universal broadband and communications, so people will not except not having it. So yes Charles I agree, in 5-10 years, people will expect to have it as a commodity, wether it is a necessity such as heat,water,electric, is irrelevant. My answer is the battle to to prove to the world it is NOT a commodity. It is a service that has value and a service worth paying for. I still remember when I paid $500 a month for my ISDN for a two man office. I believe broadband is worth as much if not more than a phone or a television service. Even if someone is poor or on welfare, they are likely to have a phone, cell phone, or TV, and they are finding a way to justify paying for it, even though it costs substantially more than Broadband for residential consumers. Why should broadband be less valuable? Because there was competition at one time, that drove the price down. Something there wasn't much of in local phone or Cable TV services. So my view is if governement want to fight for universal broadband for the rich/poor, urban/ rural, no problem, just don't devalue the service that has value. I remember when my wife was on bed rest and she had to wear a monitor. There was no problem for the world to justify (insurance approved) why a remote monitoring system, was allowed to charge several hundred dollars a day, for the monitor service. How would that person be able to do the monitoring without a phone or an internet connection? Wouldn't you argue that the connection was a significant partner in delivering the solution? In ten years I can see every elderly person wearing a broadband enabled monitor of some sort. The
Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot
let me know where you get them for $25 John Thomas wrote: DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about $25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do. John Blair Davis wrote: John, I have considered it. My only concern was that it might increase the final cost. I will take another look at it. Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE? The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 network switch or such to connect it's communication port. John Thomas wrote: Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted away from the Radio if one so chose to. John Blair Davis wrote: Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that will do what I need and fit in the space allowed. The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand for a unit like this. I have decided to build my own. I have also decided to make it available to others who might need it. As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am asking for additional ideas for features. Specs: Hardware 10baseT ethernet port for communication. 1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched. Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A Power available monitor for switched jack(s) Unit powered via 5-12VDC Software Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet Static IP with subnet and gateway Programmable ping monitor for each relay Selectable 'keep alive' / 'I am here' ping Adjustable power off delay Adjustable power off time Several things I am undecided about adding are: Email notification of ping failure Email notification of power available status change Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs) One thing I will not add: Switching 110/220AC. This would add many requirements for testing and considerable legal liability. The price should be under $100 each. Questions? Comments? Interest? -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot
That's a good price. I paid nearly $50 each. John Thomas wrote: Actually, Online Micro has the DWL-P200 for $30 and it can do 5 or 12 volts out the back. John A. Huppenthal wrote: let me know where you get them for $25 John Thomas wrote: DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about $25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do. John Blair Davis wrote: John, I have considered it. My only concern was that it might increase the final cost. I will take another look at it. Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE? The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 network switch or such to connect it's communication port. John Thomas wrote: Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted away from the Radio if one so chose to. John Blair Davis wrote: Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that will do what I need and fit in the space allowed. The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand for a unit like this. I have decided to build my own. I have also decided to make it available to others who might need it. As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am asking for additional ideas for features. Specs: Hardware 10baseT ethernet port for communication. 1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched. Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A Power available monitor for switched jack(s) Unit powered via 5-12VDC Software Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet Static IP with subnet and gateway Programmable ping monitor for each relay Selectable 'keep alive' / 'I am here' ping Adjustable power off delay Adjustable power off time Several things I am undecided about adding are: Email notification of ping failure Email notification of power available status change Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs) One thing I will not add: Switching 110/220AC. This would add many requirements for testing and considerable legal liability. The price should be under $100 each. Questions? Comments? Interest? -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings
I'm curious about this too.. Are you using off-the-shelf stuff? Can you sell an insurance policy to customers to offset the replacement costs? JohnnyO wrote: George - that may work in your neck of the woods and I have been doing the same since day 1. This past year - we replaced over $8,000 worth of CPEs - that is almost a full months revenue for us Mind you - we dealt with hurricanes and severe lightning - but - - - we can no longer as a company sustain those types of hits That is 8k in equipment costs - not the additional 5k worth of labor for the trips to the CPE. I am In an area that will constantly have severe lightning issues, hurricanes, wicked thunderstorms and high winds. How many CPEs did you replace in the last 12 months ? I have tracked and count 43 here. JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings JohnnyO wrote: We're coming into our 3rd year of operation soon. I am curious how others are doing combat against the replacement / repair / service call costs associated with having to replace CPE end equipment. I was thinking about offering a service plan like DirecTV / Cellular Companies etc, but not sure how to introduce or impiliment this. Help and suggestions would be appreciated. Regards, JohnnyO I am eating it. I bet if I told every customer who's radio died that they had to pay for a new one, we'd have less subs. I own all the radios and accept the responsibility. another way I look at it, it's cheaper to give an existing sub a 100.00 radio and get 500 for the next 12 months than it is to go without revenue and have to pay for advertising to get new subs to replace the one that I just lost. But, it's the way I do this in this market. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings
i like that idea. have the contract read that replacement of the equipment for whatever reason incurs a minimum trip charge of $75 or buy insurance @ $4 a month. Peter R. wrote: The DISH network actually charges for replacement. I had a DVR go bad and it cost me $50 for replacement. Ain't much, but it ain't free. What about charging a maintenance fee? It could be a surcharge to your service like the RBOCs add DSL fees and inside wire maintenance. Has anyone looked into getting asset insurance? Thank you. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com ISP Expo in Tampa, Dec. 9 10 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings
That's the most expensive CPE, isn't it? probably why they work so well. I know the failure rate of Moto stuff has been 1 in a 100 or so.. Perhaps 1 in 50 in you count $10 power supplies. Paul Hendry wrote: Wow, you all replace a lot of kit. What are the main reasons for the CPE's dying? Isn't there something you can do to improve the install of the units to help prevent these failures? We have only been offering services for a year but so far haven't had to replace a single CPE. We build the CPE's in house using WRAP's, WAR's and StarOS and because of this we would be able to use most of the parts again and therefore not cost to much to swap out a CPE. Cheers, P. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: 15 November 2005 06:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings i like that idea. have the contract read that replacement of the equipment for whatever reason incurs a minimum trip charge of $75 or buy insurance @ $4 a month. Peter R. wrote: The DISH network actually charges for replacement. I had a DVR go bad and it cost me $50 for replacement. Ain't much, but it ain't free. What about charging a maintenance fee? It could be a surcharge to your service like the RBOCs add DSL fees and inside wire maintenance. Has anyone looked into getting asset insurance? Thank you. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com ISP Expo in Tampa, Dec. 9 10 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Geekcorps.org
Anyone have some experience with http://www.geekcorps.org ? A couple of us are considering getting involved. -Alex -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trouble in Hyperlink land?
Likewise, we've never been mis-shipped, and have been able to track shipments for critical delivery. Our downside experience was that they sometimes were somewhat slow in getting product out and you have to, as usual, check shipping costs. Good product, decent prices, predictable delivery - our experience. We've bought their products since the late 90's - great stick antennas. Travis Johnson wrote: I have been purchasing from Hyperlink for over 6 years. At one time, we were buying $50,000 per year in equipment from them. I have never had a problem, and in fact just placed an order with them today. Travis Microserv Reliable Internet, LLC wrote: Great feedback John. I always wonder about these other people (posts on dsl reports), but I know you're honest and I believe you. I have ordered from them 3 or 4 times and all went well, but I also never got that warm fuzzy felling from them. I will stay away forever now. Brian John Scrivner wrote: We ordered some antennas that did not work out for us from Hyperlink. We asked if we could pay a restocking fee and return them. They were very evasive, just as outlined in the DSL Reports remarks. They eventually said they would allow a return but only for credit for future purchases. They also said after asking to do the return at the same time as a new order to use the credit that we were now blacklisted by them which means we can never buy from them again. This was our first and only experience with Hypelrink. I believe this makes them the worst vendor I have ever seen in my life. (Except for the RBOCs of course!) Buyer beware. Scriv Jory Privett wrote: I ordered some parts from them last week. The arrived on time and just what I ordered. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Reliable Internet, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:14 AM Subject: [WISPA] Trouble in Hyperlink land? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14859535 FYI Anyone else getting screwed around by them? If their being stupid maybe they need to be avoided. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] canopy
unless you mount it horizontally. :-) G.Villarini wrote: Nop, just vertical Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:22 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] canopy is canopy horizontal and vertical like trango? Software switchable? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell
Go get some Canopy client radios for $260 each, complete - check the performance, ease to install and setup. We did homebrew for quite a while and it has its downside as we're seeing. Just my opinion. You get a nice spectrum analyzer built-in, 2 minute setup, 2 minute test once its placed. Audible signal strength - no pc needed on the ladder. There are lots of solutions. 5.2 / 5.7 ghz Moto stuff runs thousands of subscribers. I'm not affliated with Moto/Canopy and don't ask me to sell you anything. Best wishes. Mark Nash wrote: Thanks Rick.. I've heard alot about these WRAP boards. Is this something we would put together ourselves or are there products available. What are the costs like? I guess I'd really be interested in what I should be doing for CPE going on, assuming we can still get the Turbocell licenses (see post from Blair Davis re: Winncomm continuing to be able to sell Turbocell licenses). Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 325 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.uwol.net - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:25 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell Mark, Contact me offlist as we are successfully deploying WRAP boards with Compact Flash loaded with Turbocell. My pains are compounded about 4 times as I had about 24 Turbocell POPs when this all started. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell Hello to the list... My name is Mark Nash and I own operate a little WISP of about 300 customers in Oregon. For CPE, I started out using Breezecom 2.4GHz FH radios then switched to Karlnet RSU's loaded w/Turbocell. Then the YDI/Terabeam/Proxim series of mergers acquisitions happened and I've got products from all companies but they are all Turbocell CPE. We have 6 WiPops surrounding our customer base (rural southern Willamette Valley). We're using Trango backhauls...I started out using them simply because of their low cost and advertised bandwidth. I still have two in use from when the company was called Sunstream (I think it was 2002). I remain happy about that decision. We started out with a bridged network then ARP changed my tune and we went to a routed design. OK, so...there it is. For those of you who know what's going on with Turbocell from the new Proxim, you probably know that I'm not happy as they have set out to discontinue the Turbocell client software. So I will soon have to purchase new AP's and shift some customers around because I won't be able to purchase Turbocell-based devices. That's the word from Proxim. So...anyone heard any differently? I've also asked Proxim if we can 'downgrade' our Turbocell products to 802.11b and they are saying 'no'. It's a you-know-what sandwich from which I'd rather not take a bite. Does anyone feel my pain? Any way around these issues aside from replacing CPE? Regards, Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 325 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Worm Monitoring/Alerting/Control
We use bandwidth shaping on *nix. works fine. currently the profile for one site manages 500+ IP based up and downstream. Its one of our few home-brew items. Of course, its all open source, so I don't need to worry about support on this particular item. John Thomas wrote: Mark, go over to http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html#dude See if it does some/all of what you need. As for limiting/shaping, your 3640 may do what you need. John Mark Nash wrote: I'm at the point on my network now that I really need to control unnecessary bandwidth usage. The biggest problem is the p2p users with their excessive upload, and worms come in a close second. My network is comprised of a Cisco 3640, Cisco C4840G L3 switch for segmenting, and Dell 3324 managed switches. I have run ntop in the past but I believe it only reports interactively through the web interface. I wouldn't consider myself too far off from obtaining an SNMP station/software like SNMPc. I'm needing to implement a solution that will monitor, alert on, and control this type of traffic. Either not pass it or rate-limit it. I'm interested in solutions that have been implemented, home-grown, tested, failed, etc. Thanks in advance... Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 325 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
hear hear. I totally agree with you. I have very little experience with
Insurance, but mine is a million dollar policy we use for towers and
other reasons. Its about $100 a month. I'm sure there's a specialized
insurance company that likely does this. Anyone have a contact at
American Towers? Perhaps they can point us to an 'industry' insurance
company or 3.
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes
and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to
get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added
services comes members and money. With members and money comes pull
at the FCC level. Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule
the world. *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal
Members.
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa. Gary Troutman has been
GREAT. And he's really done a lot of research into my industry.
He's got me on some very cool insurance programs. Good reasonable
stuff.
His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE
From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:
Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain
policies even where risk of loss is relatively minor. E+O is an
example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the
bare minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether
the client does $10,000 per year or $250,000.
Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties
part to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000
overall program.
This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else. You really do get what you pay for.
These policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a
claim paid would be the exception rather than the rule. Plus they
are likely placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.
My value to your clients would be in the area of making their
insurance budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage
with stronger carriers. My guess is that clients that are
generating revenue of
$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.
Paul
Original Message
Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
From: Dylan Oliver
I'm interested in group insurance. Been talking to United (through
wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what
we've been
offered:
$2,128 general liability property +
$700 umbrella +
$250 program administration charges +
$1,250 professional EO (optional) +
$250 EO administration charges (optional) +
$250 Healthy Safety Manual (maybe optional).
The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium
of $585.
And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat
a quarter
of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?
Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point 9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES 9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100 446693 Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-50 $4,500 413627 Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-100 $8,000 483655 900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000 495685 900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit - Connectorized TK10028 $30,000 Peter R. wrote: Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With members and money comes "pull" at the FCC level. Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal Members. Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. Regards, Peter 4isps.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club
Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other high-treed areas. Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion. Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller operator. 5750SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 $742.85 5751SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES $1,145.00 $950.35 BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $14,875.00 $12,941.25 BP5750SM-100 Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $45,000.00 $39,150.00 BP5750SM-500 Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $187,500.00 $163,125.00 5700SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module $595.00 $493.85 5700SMRF 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector $745.00 $618.35 5701SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES $845.00 $701.35 BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $8,750.00 $7,612.50 BP5700SM-100 Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $30,000.00 $26,100.00 BP5700SM-500 Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $125,000.00 $108,750.00 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club
Well, I tend to agree. Moto builds cable modems, and other competitive products. We aren't going to change Moto's pricing policy, product strategy, or anything else - well, unless we all work together. I see 500 packs broken all the time - so that's the idea - a bunch of us put in 1/20th of the price of 500 units, buying 25 units say.. @ 1/2 the retail price. But 500 isn't needed here. There's a huge break at Q 100. So 10 WISPs could by 10 units each for a total of $2,600 each.. Instead of buying 5 units at list. I understand what you are saying Marlon. Moto doesn't demonstrate much interest in WISP strategic futures. They cater to their market - large consumers of their products. The answer is: Use whatever product makes you successful. I don't accept the idea that boycotting Moto purchases influences our FCC successes. Getting more members and continuing improved benefits grows the organization, and that action will influence the FCC. I'm not going to get into Moto vs. Microtik or whatever. Its not in my interest to argue for or against any vendor. For me, Moto kicked everyone's ass in terms of total cost of service delivery. Others likely have other stories, I respect that. That's the nice thing about owning your own business, you don't *have* to swallow anyone else's opinion. My competitors in the valley here are moving to Moto - about 2 years late, but do I care? no.. We've moved on to the next revolution. Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest fo the big. After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until you're pretty dang good sized? And how are you supposed to do that when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors? I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes. But 30 to 50%? Not good for the industry. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other high-treed areas. Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion. Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller operator. 5750SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 *$742.85* 5751SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00 *$950.35* BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $14,875.00 *$12,941.25* BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $45,000.00 *$39,150.00* BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00* 5700SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module $595.00 *$493.85* 5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00 *$618.35* 5701SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES $845.00 *$701.35* BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $8,750.00 *$7,612.50* BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $30,000.00 *$26,100.00* BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $125,000.00 *$108,750.00* -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] buying club meeting
Good ideas. Partnering with a successful existing ISPCON would be great. I'm not close to Baltimore, so it would be my first choice. :-) I didn't know there was a WISP buying club. That would be a wonderful thing. Do you mean like Price Club or somesuch? Wow, now if they'd carry the end-user products and end-user's would be able to self-install... that would change the business numbers. I did 'Telcom Means Business' for local small business people. Sucked the hell out of my time. Easily a few hundred hours of work. If the ISPCON folks would like a true partnership - i.e., they aren't making money off WISPA members, but rather increasing attendance and therefore value to vendors, well, that's a great idea. If the Conference is really geared to bring business to vendors, products to buyers, and help with the education process great. What pisses me off is that most shows became insanely profitable for the organizers, so vendors and attendees got gouged - and no one is going any longer. Ah, I love that the market rules. well, (except it doesn't for cable and telco monopolies.. :-) Good ideas. I enjoy these discussions. I feel uncomfortable sometimes having them on an open public list though, since there are so many lizards on the 'net anymore. :-P Peter R. wrote: If you want a buying club, could I suggest that you organize with one of the existing ones? Every time another one is set up in this industry, it dilutes the power. It's a shame the groups can't all work together more, but that is what is. (I have tried to collaborate that effort and I have lost faith and interest - too much self-interest is built-in to each group; ego; and power hungry executives -- Just the things that help the Tele-Barons and MSOs keep us down. To speak to meeting: It is a 3 person job. (I just did one solo). One handles the site and logistics. One manages vendors and speakers. One acquires attendees. The one with vendors is the poor slob with the biggest headache! If you want to do a combo meeting - like with ISPCON in Baltimore - you save on some logistics and get the benefit of a concentrated effort and marketing. (CISPA and WCA did this in Santa Clara). Thoughts? Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. 4isps.com 813.963.5884 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club
'people' is me. note: posting here showed $270 quantity one Moto SM w/power supply on ebay for example. Its just a thought. I've bought dozens and dozens of Moto SM radios near $260 each over the past 12 months all at 5s and 10s quantity. So it can be done, just wished it would be a bit easier. Blair Davis wrote: I just wish people would quit quoting the Q100 or Q500 price to compare CPE equipment costs. Quote the Q1 cost. We all know that one can do better in larger quantity. But most of us don't buy in Q100 or Q500. Most of us do good to buy Q5 or Q10. The high CPE cost is what keeps me from even considering Moto and such Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest fo the big. After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until you're pretty dang good sized? And how are you supposed to do that when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors? I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes. But 30 to 50%? Not good for the industry. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other high-treed areas. Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion. Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller operator. 5750SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 *$742.85* 5751SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00 *$950.35* BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $14,875.00 *$12,941.25* BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $45,000.00 *$39,150.00* BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00* 5700SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module $595.00 *$493.85* 5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00 *$618.35* 5701SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES $845.00 *$701.35* BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $8,750.00 *$7,612.50* BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $30,000.00 *$26,100.00* BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $125,000.00 *$108,750.00* -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point 9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES 9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100 446693 Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-50 $4,500 413627 Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-100 $8,000 483655 900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000 495685 900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit - Connectorized TK10028 $30,000 Peter R. wrote: Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added services comes members and money
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
great prices! G.Villarini wrote: $100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
frankly, if I'm buying them for 50% off, I'll buy a spare for every 50 units I buy. failure rate on moto's is about 1 in 100 Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Warranty? what warranty? Do you all really have warranty problems. Switch vendors. :-) Moto doesn't have a warranty program. They die, you throw them away. Returning them to my x-distributor resulted in the same thing. They lost the returns. Screw it. Buy cheap and manage your own warranty. If you really want the warranty, perhaps the group buy co-ordinator would like to recive $2 extra per radio to put up a website with MAC addresses and to handle each return for $20. But really, I don't want to have anything to do with warrenty - We're talking $250 items. If you are buying lots of APs, well, get a spare and return through the distributor that sold the 'lot' to the buying group. Moto doesn't sell direct for example - unless you are government. Hey, wait, can we be a government? Know anyone on an Indian reservation? They are a government. :-) Perhaps they'd like to get involved. There are few Indian businesses in my area, unfortunately. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization. However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*.. Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly doesn't support group buys. The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends when the product is delivered. Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Like I said 1 to 100 failures. Usually we drop them from a roof, or run one over.. Often times they still work, but often they don't Its a piece of plastic housing with a single board inside. You can get a replacement case for $15 as I recall. Nice to have a few around for demo to customers. They build them for $25 probably, open one up - there's nothing in there. An Altera FPGA - well, other programmable gate array.. basically 'make your hardware' on a chip technology. Check out HDLs if you are interested - its how I designed our first DSL modem. Moto isn't stupid. Its a good design. The hardware just jumped up a bit in complexity recently - but the price jump was nuts. Moto stays in this business becasue they are making lots and lots of money. Its not a lost leader. As far as hacking them go.. well, Rich Comroe might tell us.. Hey Rich - can we get an HDL for the Moto? :-) oh yea, I can see this list cracking open the HDL.. :-) its such a paradigm change... it isn't really like programming, well.. as much as programming is like jazz dancing, I suppose. But crapola boys, we have on the smartest guys in the Motorola Land - one of their top technology leaders as a member of list here. Ask him, I'm not anywhere close to the design other than tearing the chips appart out of curiousity. He's not sales man, Rich, didn't we first meet when you were VP of Engineering @ Moto? I could be wrong it was yonks ago. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap. (would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price) Whoever buys the gear. Group name or Joe Blow. Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled? If I buy gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty? Or is it void because I didn't buy from authorized reseller? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I like the 100 pack - but Mote sometimes gives away a couple of backhuals with a 500 pack and other promos.. They change from time to time, whomever wants to run with it will have to make some calls. once we go underground on this deal, we can have a couple of teleconferences, and I'll cough up my secrets. To some degree its not a good idea to get to the precise suppliers, prices, deals and so on on a public list.. Sometimes Moto takes a dim view of group buys, and snaps the elastic of the distributor in unpleasent ways Travis Johnson wrote: Also, how much of a real savings are you going to see buying a 500 pack compared with a 100 pack? I'm not sure how the pricing structure works with Moto, but with other places the biggest savings is from 10/20 packs to 100 or 250 packs. Going from 100 to 500 yields very minimal changes ($10 per SM/SU would be my guess). Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap. (would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price) Whoever buys the gear. Group name or Joe Blow. Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled? If I buy gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty? Or is it void because I didn't buy from authorized reseller? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
It'll work, you just do it. The details are all bulls*it. Set up a closed email list for people who are interested. If you can wait a week or two I can setup an email list for that, if you like. People who aren't interested are going to give you one million reason why the earth is flat, or whatever their view is. My only concern is that someone gets screwed because there is a liar, cheat, thief in the process. Else, its cheap gear for cheap prices that *works*. However, if your don't know that, likely you'll need an AP. hmmm... if anyone wants to borrow a 5.7 AP from me, you can. I'll lend it out for a week, you pay the post both ways and *if* it come back broken, *you* agree to replace it in 10 days with a working one. Turns out i have enough canopy stuff until late Jan. Contact me off-list if you like. Frankly if the group buy guy wants to handle loaners to the membership/group that's find with me. I'll toss $100 in the kitty toward 4 loaner APs - a 5.2, 5.7, 2.4 (junk) and 900 mhz (I'll never use).. Got a paypal account, I'll send the money now. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
The risk should be - the guy who gets my money sends me my SMs.. These things come in single unit boxes, so repacking them isn't a huge deal. 10 boxes of 10 each? I think that's a reasonable limit. Trusting someone on the list to do the buy with my $2600 is fine. I'll do some due diligience on the group buyer. If there's some references, an address, a person we know, we'll that's all fine wit me. Paypal has some control over what you suggest is a hole. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
cool Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] E-commerce help - Anyone want to make a consulting fee?
try salesforce.com John Scrivner wrote: I am sorry for this off-topic post but I need a favor. I need to know what e-commerce solution works best for an application where a company has several sales people/outlets and we need to track sales by each agent's referring web site. All transactions will go through one shopping cart and merchant account. Ideally we would like for the referring web address of the agent to automatically populate the agent identification data field of the sales report generated as each agent will have their own unique web address. I would like for agents to be able to see their sales via a web login database. Is this something that a merchant account will track for you? I would assume I would need to be able to track sales locally on the shopping cart end and be able to reference merchant account data to make sure it all balances. This will be my first e-commerce site and it is a big one. We need to track sales by agent for commissions. Can anyone help with this? I will gladly pay for consulting if this is complicated to setup. I just need help and have very little e-commerce background. Please send me your thoughts on this off list. I am sorry for off-topic post. Thank you, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices
Nice! Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Read it and weep nay sayers ;-) I found a VAR to work with. Prices for canopy 900. Connectorized- $262.60 Integrated- $328.7 All details are being posted to Principal Members List. You must be a paid WISPA member to take advantage of the offer. I'd like to get an estimate of volume to the VAR. Pay up to WISPA and hit me offlist to how many you think you could use a month (you won't be committed to this, it's just for a general idea) Brian Ron Wallace wrote: Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some money, good. Ron Wallace Original message Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization. However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*.. Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly doesn't support group buys. The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends when the product is delivered. Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now
Re: [WISPA] Orthogon Spectra
I don't mean to be negative, but I get calls from their sales guys - I ask some simple questions and can't get them answered, so I don't buy them. I'm all ears about their backhauls.. *seem* like a great deal to me. Paul Hendry wrote: Hi guys, Looking at getting a couple of Spectra’s but was wondering if someone could enlighten me a little. The Spectra can supposedly achieve 300mb aggregate throughput. Do Orthogon achieve this by using compression? If so, what sort of rate are you likely to get in ideal conditions but using highly compressed data? Does anyone know what the difference is between the Spectra and the Spectra lite? Cheers, P. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/198 - Release Date: 12/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/198 - Release Date: 12/12/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Things you might be interested in
Did you try RMS for your monitoring / control hardware? http://www.bndcom.com/rms/rms.htm They are $500 list, have 3 relays remote controllable - NO/and NC connections, so if you want a fail over to closed you can do it. There's 5 or 6 voltmeters, a 1/2 dozen TTL level contact closure sense items, low current draw - decent scripts. Haven't seen any for $200, but the guys at BND have said they are working on a new one - maybe lower cost. --- What do you mean by thermo-electric generator? Something that works from Geo-Thermal sources? Sterling has some interesting stuff. .:_) --- Great ideas. We've built lots of remote sites and frankly $800 / hour for a heli ride when things go south is crazy. We just don't do it. :-) Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I have found myself in need of some devices from time to time that I can't seem to buy at a reasonable price. Since I was laid up for a month and more, I began doing some research on developing things I needed. Before I go into a bunch of work to try to finalize these... I'd like to know if anyone else is interested... 1. IP addressable, 10/100 ethernet based voltage / charge / temperature / monitoring and/or switching device. You could monitor batteries, solar panels, generator, start/stop things, etc. Cost: ~$200 2. IP addressable, 10/100 ethernet based thermo-electric generator, fueled by propane, either remotely controlled, or operating on a programmable basis - to operate as a backup power supply in conjunction with 12 or 24V battery based DC systems. Would provide battery monitoring, as well. Approximate cost: $2500 for a 75 watt 24V system. Could be made in 20, 50, 100, or larger wattage sizes - cost rises considerable with power output.This would serve as backup for a solar/wind or even for AC in conjunction with lead-acid batteries. 3. crash detect and reboot system. This would connect via 10/100M ethernet to a network, ping a programmable IP (in fact, several of them) and be able to power cycle dc or ac powered equipment. Programmable as to how many pings to miss, how long to power down, etc.Cost: ~$200. Each of these devices would be designed to operate on very minimal power and tolerate temperature extremes. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
What club are you talking about Charles? I predict you'll be asking Brian to participate in the next buy Charles. :-) Charles Wu wrote: Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my naysaying wrong However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I predict the following 2 outcomes will occur: 1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought 2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either (a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day business needs / obligations / demands (b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed, he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and the middleman will return -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Yes, (joke) let's assure ourselves that all things are motivated by increasing one individual's bank account vs. the group's membership's benefits. Part of the reason I'm not participating in Part 15 et.al. is that the organizers of any membership benefit have to do so with the assumption that the GOAL of the effort is member benefits, not organizer benefits from organizing it. How much money have you made off WISPA John, Rich, Matt, Marlon, et.al? I know its a rethorical question - I know how much - none. If we're always looking at ways we can take the membership for a dollar ride we're not in the right groove. Isn't it enough that not only the organizer gets a benefit by getting his costs down, but that he's going to have lots of other participants potentially shaking his hand and thanking him for the effort? In this organization, I hope so. Charles Wu wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Call me a profit-hungering leech, but if I were you, I would try to set up the listserv myself Remember, the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars that Bullit made off of WISPCON Part-15 all started from a simple Orinoco listserv (on a windows box too) -Charles P.S. better do it before that leech formerly known as Charles steals your idea wink --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com http://www.cwlab.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
You should be getting a notice of the mailing list creation. Will walk through the list manager steps and get you the listmanger's account information. Will be using rfarc.org as the base address - a local non-profit ham radio domain that has private list features. Let's see how it goes. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: All I know is I talked to a VAR and was assured I could get the prices I requested and have the process work the way I asked about. I'm just doing a little leg work to see what happens. When I compare what I can buy now, a $550 single pack. Because I can't even afford 25 pack. To the 100 pack prices of something like $260. It's a no brainer Charles. The $290 saving per radios covers any admin fees in savings by far. If you want Canopy radios, hit me off list. The only way I currently plan of profiting from this is the $290 savings on each radio. I just want 900 gear I can afford. Brian Charles Wu wrote: Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my naysaying wrong However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I predict the following 2 outcomes will occur: 1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought 2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either (a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day business needs / obligations / demands (b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed, he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and the middleman will return -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for $500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were $250. ha! I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to get the listserver doing precisely what it should. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: That would be great. People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as well as 900. I just want 900 for now. If we get a place to talk about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product. A. Huppenthal wrote: Brian, I'll see if can do this shortly. -Alex Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
The list server is running, Brian is working on the final setup / config. Sorry, its I thought I could do it in just an hour, but I've never set this software up before so it took 2 hours. I'm guessing the list will be up and running. Any suggestions on how we can confirm that the person attempting to signup for the group buy listserv is actually a principle member? I don't think we want a list of all the members distributed. I was thinking a simple script might allow an authorized person to query *if* a certain email address is a principle member or not.. hmmm... a puzzle.. I guess the person asking for the list membership could do so on the principle member list @ wispa. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Your a good man. A. Huppenthal wrote: I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for $500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were $250. ha! I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to get the listserver doing precisely what it should. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: That would be great. People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as well as 900. I just want 900 for now. If we get a place to talk about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product. A. Huppenthal wrote: Brian, I'll see if can do this shortly. -Alex Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA. While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I decided to setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for classifed ads. I'll be posting a bunch of stuff shortly. Subscribe by sending an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you like. I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or OBO whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject line. Have fun. -Alex -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I had no idea there was a classified list someplace. Noted that WISPA had a goal item to create one, and when I posted the suggestion earlier, I hadn't heard another such list existed.- so, I made one. :-) Likely no need for duplicate lists, unless policy, format or other differences suggest there should be two. I'll look now that I know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I know Kory has a site set up for ads. Maybe you can get ideas from it or maybe we don't need another? Didn't know if you knew about it. Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA. While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I decided to setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for classifed ads. I'll be posting a bunch of stuff shortly. Subscribe by sending an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you like. I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or OBO whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject line. Have fun. -Alex -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Okay, I see. Its more like a real classifed ad system. It has the upside of that. On the other hand it has lots of ads and stuff other than classifeds. I don't think there's any harm in leaving the liserver verion up. I've posted a couple of Atlas radios, a Canon cam we bought for site surveys but got little use of, and will be posting other stuff. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Duh. Where is the link?? http://www.wispclassifieds.com/ Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I know Kory has a site set up for ads. Maybe you can get ideas from it or maybe we don't need another? Didn't know if you knew about it. Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA. While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I decided to setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for classifed ads. I'll be posting a bunch of stuff shortly. Subscribe by sending an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you like. I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or OBO whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject line. Have fun. -Alex -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nice. Glad to see there are others trying to promote independent WISPs success out there. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: You never heard of Kory Mohr? He has these sites.. http://www.wispcentric.com/ http://www.wispdirectory.com/ http://www.startawisp.com/ http://www.wispclassifieds.com/ He's a good dude and puts in a lot of work for the industry and for WISPs. A. Huppenthal wrote: I had no idea there was a classified list someplace. Noted that WISPA had a goal item to create one, and when I posted the suggestion earlier, I hadn't heard another such list existed.- so, I made one. :-) Likely no need for duplicate lists, unless policy, format or other differences suggest there should be two. I'll look now that I know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I know Kory has a site set up for ads. Maybe you can get ideas from it or maybe we don't need another? Didn't know if you knew about it. Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA. While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I decided to setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for classifed ads. I'll be posting a bunch of stuff shortly. Subscribe by sending an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you like. I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or OBO whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject line. Have fun. -Alex -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Merry Christmas folks
Mac, Merry Christmas to you too. Beautiful sentiment. Mac Dearman wrote: I thought I would drop a line this morning wishing all of you a Merry Christmas. I appreciate WISPA and all of its members. Hey guys - - - it has come to pass!! It was a lot of hard work for a lot of you and I look for great things to happen in the future. Rome was not built in one night! A special thanks to the board for continuing efforts and over seeing of all us idiots! :-) My one word of advice for all of us as we enter these holidays is: Hold your family tight - tell them that you love them and give them all a big ole' nasty kiss! You never know when it will be the last opportunity to show your love for them. Family is like your eye's and ears in that you only get one set in a life time - - cherish them!! you too HARNISH!! Merry Christmas, Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 318-376-2562 - cell http://www.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Merry Christmas
For those who have no family, be assured that you aren't alone during the Holiday season, embrace your friends and associates, enjoy a season of giving and love even among those you may not know well. Its a great time for all of us to become closer, forgive one another's mistakes, and look forward to a creative, caring New Year, in a spirit of independence, self-reliance and strength. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi
I'd heard that they'd promised New Orleans police department an abandoned Bell South building but decided against that since the muni project was still alive. dustin jurman wrote: I think that is supposed to be 1.5 meg a seconds. They use navini and this is just a response to shut down the new Orleans muni project. And the reason they don't support VOIP over it is because navini sucks. This is Bellsouth's way of saying look! - SHINNY BLUE THING! Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1134594567.htm Post Katrina: Mississippi Gets Wireless Broadband BellSouth has begun deploying high-speed wireless broadband speeds as fast as 1.5 Gb/s in Gulfport and Biloxi, Miss., modifying the company's original wireless broadband rollout plans in order to get service to residents of the hurricane-ravaged area, where the infrastructure damage is so huge it hasn't been fixed yet. The incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC), whose original rollout plans envisioned only offering wide-area wireless broadband in rural areas, is also offering residents of the Mississippi towns a bit of a discount out of sympathy for their plight - and, of course, the good publicity it might get out of the move. Small businesses and homeowners are still rebuilding, and they are looking to BellSouth to provide the critical communications they need to get their lives in order, says John McCullouch, president of BellSouth's Mississippi operations. Our wireless broadband service will provide customers with a viable and economical solution for high-speed Internet access. A BellSouth spokeswoman added that, after blanketing the hurricane-hit cities, the carrier will now return to our original strategy of (offering wireless broadband in) areas from suburbia on out, where such services as DSL can't be delivered economically. About a month ago, BellSouth began offering a high-speed wireless service in downtown New Orleans, but that was priced as a small-business service only. It was absolutely critical to getting the city up and running, the BellSouth spokeswoman explained, regarding the decision not to offer a residential plan. One thing BellSouth is not offering the Mississippi residents, however, is voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) on its shiny, new, wireless broadband. The company had no explanation of why, other than the simple fact that it's not going to offer it for now. For more on BellSouth's wireless rollout progress in the Gulf area, read the current issue of Broadband Business Forecast. For a trial subscription, go to http://www.telecomweb.com/cgi/catalog/info?BNN. Thank you. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156 fax 305.675.6494 http://4isps.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 48 volt power supplies
ah, strap a couple of 24 volt batteries on with some chargers.. :-) ps: we do that for backup - less expensive than a UPS. We run Redline equipment - relatively high current - for 4 days w/o electricity. works great. be sure to get a charger that resets properly after the A/C kicks out - we learned that lesson on the 5th day of the first outage :-) Kurt Fankhauser wrote: RFlinx has 48v POE supplies 60watts. www.rflinx.com Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] 48 volt power supplies Can anyone hook me up with a source for the 48 volt supplies? I need to buy some of those DS3 to Ethernet converters and they require that supply. I have never seen them before and need a source. Also, does anyone have a manual and/or drawings of the PCOM radios we are buying? I need to start reading up on these radios to make sure I know what all I need to get them installed. Please help if you have a source of information on them. If any of you have experience with the PCOMs and DS3 to Ethernet converters I would like to pick your brain on a few things. Many thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Merry Christmas
Enjoy this holiday song. http://aspenworks.us/merryxmas.swf -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vivato
there is power in those numbers.. Rick Smith wrote: What's pitiful is, vivato wasted $65 MM of investor capital. All that money divided by 3,000 WISPs = $21,000 each. Doesn't sound like a lot, but we could probably build a decent nationwide wisp network with that kinda cash in each our pockets. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vivato I'll put up some $$ for the membership to buy Vivato's intellectual property and inventory.. :-) We just need 1,000 other members. Peter R. wrote: December 16, 2005 – Vivato, Inc. announced today that it has made the decision to cease to operate as a going concern, and to wind down its operations. This difficult decision was deemed by Vivato to be in the best interest of creditors, shareholders and customers, based upon the Company’s projection of its future results. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Board Resignation
WISPA Board and Members: As of today, I resign my role as Board Member and Treasurer of the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA). I don't have the interest in continuing in either role. I'm enjoying working directly with the membership. The membership should continue to evolve, develop new benefits based on the power of numbers in the membership. I highly recommend the membership continue to define WISPA, its goals, its benefits and its operation, as it is still *all new*, and do this periodically. I look forward to the membership's first formal meeting. Sincerely, Alex Huppenthal -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Canopy Lite $200 per SM MSRP
Moto announced their Lite SM - $200 list. Slow - 500Kbit. Designed to compete with dialup. Speed upgrades available this year, according to their announcement - up to 7 mbit. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] bandwidth
Last month, the FCC officially opened up the use of the middle band of the Unlicensed National Information Infrastructure (UNII) spectrum (5.470 GHz to 5.725 GHz) to 54Mbps 802.11a Wi-Fi networks in the United States. The band adds another 255 MHz and 11 channels to the existing 325 MHz and 13 channels available for Wi-Fi in this band. As of January 20, any products that apply for certification in the 5.470 GHz to 5.725 GHz band or in the lower end of the UNII band at 5.25 GHz to 5.35 GHz, were required to support dynamic frequency selection (DFS) and transmit power control (TPC) to minimize interference, per a February 2005 FCC order http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-43A1.pdf. From Joanie Wexler... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bandwidth
Trango makes a backhaul unit in the 5.4 space, I wonder if they are now legal. Any Trango rep here? Brad Larson wrote: Alvarion. Brad Brad Larson Northeast Regional Manager Alvarion 965 Rakestraw Rd Montoursville, PA 17754 Phone 570-433-4608 Cell 570-419-0029 Fax 570-433-4603 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] bandwidth Are any vendors shipping products which are FCC certified for these frequencies? Thanks Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] bandwidth Last month, the FCC officially opened up the use of the middle band of the Unlicensed National Information Infrastructure (UNII) spectrum (5.470 GHz to 5.725 GHz) to 54Mbps 802.11a Wi-Fi networks in the United States. The band adds another 255 MHz and 11 channels to the existing 325 MHz and 13 channels available for Wi-Fi in this band. As of January 20, any products that apply for certification in the 5.470 GHz to 5.725 GHz band or in the lower end of the UNII band at 5.25 GHz to 5.35 GHz, were required to support dynamic frequency selection (DFS) and transmit power control (TPC) to minimize interference, per a February 2005 FCC order http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-43A1.pdf. From Joanie Wexler... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 02/15/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st
I don't think WISPA should police WISPs. The organization does encourage conforming to FCC regs, and we've seen numerous postings from Marlon and others answering difficult rule interpretation. That's the best focus for our energies as a WISP organization - that is; making FCC links and docs available where needed, providing liaison between FCC and WISPs to accomodate WISPs customers needs... That's my stand. John J. Thomas wrote: There has been so much talk about this, I might be inclined to help the FCC find those WISPs that are snubbing their noses at the law. This is a professional list and those here should be abiding by the law. I wonder if it would be a good thing to kick out those that promote illegal activities? Whether you like it or not, WISPs will eventually be taxed- I guarantee the ILECs will see to that. If the FCC wants you, they will eventually find you. John Thomas -Original Message- From: Frank Muto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 06:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.pdf 20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477? Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any other applicable law. In particular, the Commission has authority pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce compliance by fine or forfeiture. Frank Muto Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA Telecom Summit Ad Hoc Committee http://gigabytemarch.blog.com/ www.wbia.us - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; Marlon Schafer (509-982-2181) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st OK...OK. I agree that all should probably file. I have several partners so I am not the only one to decide so I will leave it at that as it pertains to my WISP entity. BUT...What is the penalty for not filing Does anyone know??? Can we get an official statement for this situation? Are there fines? Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram?? Do they not send me a xmas card next year?? What??? It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. Either way I think the membership should know. Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Basic Mesh Theory
I haven't read your summary yet, but would like to chime in a bit on Mesh... When the DoD developed TCP/IP, they built it to be robust under war-time conditions. This means fault tolerant, rerouting, change-over, change-back. It would wonderful to hear the Mesh scientists (not sales people) describe what it is about mesh that gives it an edge over TCP/IP protocols, including their routing protocols. I'll read your notes with some interest, in the hopes they'll shed some light on this fundemental question. Else, historically mesh has been a crapola of marketing hype, generalizations, and I have it nailed crap intended to fuel someone's new car or new house, new sales organization - and not provide any real customer/network operator benefit. In my humble opinion. I personally have spoken to Microsoft's development leader on Mesh and had it explained that dozens of PhD's were working on Mesh solutions at MS. Ah, okay, I'm guess Motorola and 10 other companies are doing this as well. Has anyone deployed a TCP/IP network that's fault tolerant - along the lines of the DoD's intent for the network? Using 'Mesh' or otherwise. I'm all ear. Matt Liotta wrote: Attached is a quick rundown of basic mesh theory that I put together in light of the recent thread. It hasn't been peer reviewed or edited, which I would normally do before sharing publicly. But since I only wrote because of a thread on this list I figured I would just share it. Feel free to pick it apart. I do want to point out a couple of things though. First, this was written in a generic way only covering mesh as a theory. As written it can be applied to various transport technologies from fiber to wireless; though I do provide an example using wireless P2P links. Applying mesh theory to wireless P2MP or ad-hoc networks would require special coverage. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] New revenue stream
I have client who asked me if a tasteful nude picture web server would be okay to deploy on the network. They are willing to pay 5 times the normal rate for co-location, plus additional fees for high load times. When I called Qwest to find out about their policy they said they aren't in the business of clensing the net or otherwise filtering content. Since this server is not one of the companies, I wonder what sort of liability exists.. It appears this is a huge source of revenue. In fact the same crew says they want to provide DRM downloadable movies of the adult nature. Now I've watched with some interest, what the major hotel chains are doing and how much pay per view adult movies add to their bottom line. I don't think this is a simple - you know I don't like it myself - answer. Its policy, revenue and finding the proper ground. Any experience with this? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ATT merging with BellSouth
Google's market cap is $126 billion.. Still smaller than this new company, but close. Start a company with google's vision but for telcom and get a $150 billion market cap.. :-) On Mar 5, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Frank Muto wrote: NYT/WSJ ATT Inc. is nearing the acquisition of BellSouth Corp. for roughly $65 billion, people familiar with the situation said Saturday evening. A deal could be announced as early as Monday, these people said. Final terms of the deal could not be learned Saturday evening, but these people said ATT Inc. would pay a premium for BellSouth shares of at least 15%, valuing the company at $36 per share at least, up from its trading price Friday of $31.46. That would push the total equity value of the deal to at least $65 billion, plus the assumption of an additional $17 billion of BellSouth debt. Spokespeople for BellSouth and ATT declined to comment. An ATT-BellSouth deal would effectively cleave the nation's telecom services in two, each vertically integrated with a local phone operation, business services, and wireless unit. And it would effectively validate the vision of competition laid out by the government -- one in which traditional telecom firms compete directly against cable operators rather than against each other. The move would give ATT Inc. sole control over Cingular, the nation's largest wireless operator. A combination between ATT and BellSouth could have combined market capitalization of nearly $160 billion, making ATT far larger than rival Verizon. The deal would nonetheless set a showdown between ATT and Verizon, as the two fight to control wireless, the growth portion of the telecom business. It was the steep growth of Cingular -- joint owned by BellSouth and the former SBC -- that helped push the two firms together, say telecom bankers familiar with the space. As the importance of the wireless business grew, they say, it became inevitable that SBC (which adopted the ATT name just months ago) would consolidate its position in the South. Put together, the SBC territory would extend from California to Florida, north to Illinois and south to Texas. Combining the two companies' current market capitalizations, ATT would have a market value approaching $150 billion, over 50% greater than Verizon. ATT Chairman and Chief Executive Edward Whitacre has made a name for himself in the telecommunications industry as a serial acquirer. Mr. Whitacre is able to boast of a string of acquisitions including Pacific Telesis Corp., Ameritech Corp. and Southern New England Telecommunications Corp. But as he nears retirement the market had been anticipating one last hurrah from him; a BellSouth acquisition by ATT has long been the subject of speculation from analysts, investors and the two companies' rivals. Still the speedy move to acquire BellSouth came as a surprise so soon after Mr. Whitacre's takeover of ATT Corp. last fall. His company is just starting to digest the $16 billion acquisition. The former SBC Communications Inc. took over ATT Corp. and adopted the ATT moniker. The new company dominates nearly every aspect of the industry, from high-speed Internet connections to long-distance phone service, as well as wireless. And Mr. Whitacre now has access to the old ATT's enterprise business and world-wide network. Such a deal would likely prompt howls of protest in some quarters as it comes on the heels not only of the ATT-SBC deal but also after Verizon Communications Inc.'s acquisition of MCI. Those deals were approved with only a few minor conditions despite concerns they would lead to higher prices for business customers. The wave of mergers has dramatically reshaped the telecom industry, and a purchase of BellSouth would further cement the recreation of the old Ma Bell, which the government pushed to break up in 1984. The management of ATT, which has apparently briefed key senior government officials late last week, appears to be betting that the Bush administration and a Bell-friendly Federal Communications Commission won't raise too many obstacles for such a deal, arguing that the companies serve different geographic regions and do not currently compete with one another in a significant way. Although ATT and Verizon's last mergers passed both FCC and Justice Department review with little major problems, the latest proposed merger may face more hurdles. Recent comments by ATT and BellSouth executives about their intentions to explore new revenue streams from their high-speed Internet services by introducing two-tier or premium service for Internet content providers. Concerns about those plans and the concept of net neutrality, or ensuring that consumers have open access to all Internet sites and services and businesses do not find their content slowed, has become a major problems for the Bells in Washington. Meanwhile, the FCC that will be reviewing the
Re: [WISPA] Canopy Site, off-power-grid
Plan for an amp hour / hour.. 24 amp hours / day. if you buy a couple of 100 amp hour walmart marine batteries you'd have 200/24 or about 9 days of run time without solar. I don't know what solar planning you need in Jersey. DoE has some maps of the US for solar planning - if it works out you only have 4 8 hour days around dec 21st to charge your batteries, you'd need to calculate feeding the load - 1 amp continuous for 24 hours - which means 24 / 8 solar hours = 3 amps during that 8 hours for the load, plus battery charge time input. So, if you plan to charge the batteries to peak from zero in 3 days, you'd need 200 / (8 hours (charge day) * 3) or about 9 amps for that. So a solar array might be 9 + 3 or 12 amps output @ 12 volts. The Moto stuff will work fine @ 12 volts, even though they are spec'd for higher. Finding a good 12 volt switch or router that suits you and draws little current can be a struggle. hope this helps. by the way, I'm in Califon for the next couple of days. On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:01 AM, Rick Smith wrote: Need to install a short tower as a relay on a mountaintop, no power within 3/4 mile. Anyone done battery / generator sites with one Canopy AP, one Canopy SM and a router, like Mikrotik in between ? This is in NJ, not too good an environment for solar I imagine, although we'll be on a real high hill top (1250' elev) for this area... R -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] New revenue stream *THREAD CLOSED!*
my apologies to the members of the list if they found it offensive. Reality is we need to consider content rules as much as need to consider VoIP gateways. since you've arbitrarily decided its not 'proper content' based on your view, I've decided to drop my involvement in WISPA. bye On Mar 7, 2006, at 9:35 PM, Rick Harnish wrote: Alex, Please take this offlist. This is not proper content for discussion on the Wispa list servs. Respectfully, Rick Harnish President Supernova Technologies, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office [EMAIL PROTECTED] Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] New revenue stream I have client who asked me if a tasteful nude picture web server would be okay to deploy on the network. They are willing to pay 5 times the normal rate for co-location, plus additional fees for high load times. When I called Qwest to find out about their policy they said they aren't in the business of clensing the net or otherwise filtering content. Since this server is not one of the companies, I wonder what sort of liability exists.. It appears this is a huge source of revenue. In fact the same crew says they want to provide DRM downloadable movies of the adult nature. Now I've watched with some interest, what the major hotel chains are doing and how much pay per view adult movies add to their bottom line. I don't think this is a simple - you know I don't like it myself - answer. Its policy, revenue and finding the proper ground. Any experience with this? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
