Re: [EVDL] FLA battery terminals lugs

[Jay Summet via EV]

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I have an S-10 electric conversion with 20 6 Volt golf cart batteries.
They have studs. I am on my 2nd set of batteries and haven't melted
any lead or had any studs pull out.

I tighten them with a small (6) wrench wrapped in electrical tape, so
can't get too much torque on them, and I don't try to tighten them as
tight as I could get them even with that small wrench.

I do check tightness after the first two weeks of driving, and then
again every 1-2 months when I water the batteries. I also use lock
washers just under the nut and haven't found many that need tightening
when I check. (and after I tightened up the one or two nuts on my
first check after switching packs or adding the PakTraker system they
usually all stay put after that)

The batteries are well packed into the battery boxes with foam, so
they don't move around, and then 2/0 wires have enough slack so that
the lugs shouldn't be moving around or putting pressure on the
studs/nuts as the truck bounces around.

The controller is rated at 500 amps max, ( Curtis 1231C-86) and I
typically average 75-120 amps and sometimes pull at least 200-300 amps
for at least 20-30 seconds at a time when going up long hills, etc

[Usually the motor current maxes out at 500 amps when starting from a
dead stop, but the battery current is lowerand the batteries don't
seem to provide the full 500 amps when I have the throttle wide open
at full speed...250-300 battery amps is the largest I've seen on the
PakTrakr]

http://www.evalbum.com/3693

Jay


On 06/02/2014 10:56 AM, KenA via EV wrote:
 The maximum amperage of my system is 500 and it typically doesn't
 exceed 300. Would studs and lugs usually work for that?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Ken
 
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] FLA battery terminals lugs

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 06/03/2014 12:39 PM, Roland wrote:
 Are you guys talking about the low profile studs or the high auto
 post with imbedded stud?

I believe mine are the low profile...I certainly couldn't get a
regular auto post style connector on them...the lead post sticks up
maybe 1/4 maximum, with a threaded bolt (stud) sticking out of it.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] FLA battery terminals lugs

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 06/03/2014 10:19 AM, KenA via EV wrote:
 I'm tempted to build a set of lugged cables to try but I think my
 use pattern may be the real culprit here.
 
 My commute is now 15 miles of mostly highway travel - typically at
 55mph. It's not uncommon for me to be pulling 200+ amps for
 extended periods of time. From what I'm hearing, FLA in any
 configuration may not be a good option for this mission. Maybe I
 should just buy a Leaf...
 
 

I have driven my truck (2-3 times in the last 4 years) for a 20 mile
round trip at 50-55mph, but I did 10 miles out, and it had at least
20-30 minutes of wait/recovery/cool-down time before the trip back.

My regular commutes are all in the 25-45mph speed range, city driving,
mostly on 35mph roads, typically 8 miles at a time, but sometimes
20-25 miles.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Vibration

[Jay Summet via EV]

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One thing to check is your non-drivetrain elements, although if you
get the vibration without moving in neutral it's probably in the
drivetrain.

The reason I mention it is that our car had developed a vibration at
the 58-60 MPH speed range, and it turned out to be rear shocks that
needed replacing.

Jay


On 06/09/2014 07:49 AM, Pestka, Dennis J via EV wrote:
 Removed the drive shaft, had new u-joints installed, and had it
 balanced. No change.
 
 I’m guessing it’s either the angle on the motor/transmission in
 relation to the rear end, or I may have to pull the
 motor/flywheel/pressure plate/clutch assembly and have it
 balanced. When I sit in neutral and rev to ~ 3000rpm, I’m getting
 some vibration, although it doesn’t seem to be as bad as when I
 drive. Here again I feel it at ~ 50 mph and up, but it is really
 noticeable when I let off the accelerator at those speeds.
 
 Thanks; Dennis Elsberry, MO http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
 http://evalbum.com/3715
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Daniel Busby [mailto:busby.dan...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday,
 May 27, 2014 1:52 PM To: Pestka, Dennis J; Electric Vehicle
 Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vibration
 
 I'd try balancing your driveshaft.  It's relatively inexpensive
 once you get it out.  A local place in LA costs less than $70.
 
 My '64 Spitfire definitely has a wobbly shaft, but I haven't made
 the time to pull it out and get it balanced yet.  I stick to
 surface streets in the meantime.
 
 On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Pestka, Dennis J via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Didn't know if
 anyone had any clues to a problem I'm having.
 
 Since I have my new Lithium pack, I've getting my 65 Datsun out on
 the highway and up to ~ 60 mph. Never did much of that before. When
 accelerating, I don't experience it, but when I let off the
 accelerator, I'm getting a pretty good vibration. Step back on the
 accelerator, and it goes away. Don't seem to notice it at 45mph and
 lower, but when going 55 - 60 mph. I just put new tires on it, and
 have had the front end aligned.
 
 Any suggestions ?
 
 
 Thanks; Dennis Elsberry, MO http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
 http://evalbum.com/3715
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] electric leaf blower hovercraft

[Jay Summet via EV]

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I've seen plans on the Internet to make a small (3-5 foot diameter sit
on disk) Hovercraft out of a piece of plywood and an (ICE) leaf
blower (+thick plastic shower curtain skirt).

Unfortunately, my little Black  Decker hard surface sweeper

http://www.blackanddecker.com/outdoor/NS118B.aspx

does NOT have enough umph to be used for this alone, (although
perhaps 4 of them together around the rim of the disk)


Below are some links where a group of people used two 40 volt lithium
leaf blowers ( which cost $140 EACH):
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-LSW36-40-Volt-Cordless/dp/B00AXTO41E

To make a hovercraft that could lift one (light) person:

Instructions:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Battery-Powered-Hovercraft/

Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAG4DUDPHE8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D6AGOQOdNk


If anybody can post a link to a more  powerful battery operated leaf
blower that would make this hovercraft work better or with a single
leaf blower instead of having to buy two, it'll be on topic, as long
as used for EV purposes, and not leaf blowing purposes.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: AC or DC?

[Jay Summet via EV]

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Has anybody mentioned the Echo Drive (by Echo Automotive) yet?

It sounds like it is a VERY close fit to what the original poster was
looking for.

Basically the Echo Drive is a motor that bolts onto the end of the
transmission and connects to (a shortened?) drive shaft.  It has a 9
kWh battery box that mounts (under a light truck/van) in the position
of where the spare tire would normally go.

The idea is a bolt on solution to make a truck or delivery van into
a plug in hybrid to save lots of gas.

I believe it plugs into the CAN bus to detect engine data and adds
thrust when needed (and can re-gen if the batteries are getting low),
but they mentioned that they have a stalk that adds to the steering
column to allow the driver to control extra re-gen for braking, so
perhaps it doesn't require CAN bus support.
The battery box supports 120v and 240 volt charging.

http://www.echoautomotive.com/

http://www.echoautomotive.com/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=8#whatisechodrive

I believe they are currently in the prototyping and testing stages
(not shipping actual products) and working with some research labs and
firms to get some data from actual fleet vehicles, but they may be
interested in building one into a Mustang for promotional purposes,
especially if you offered to pay them for it.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Flooded lead-acid ooopsie and how to correct best?

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 08/11/2014 04:11 PM, Roger Stockton via EV wrote:

 Most likely a mechanical issue with the ganged caps. Given that you
  water infrequently, you might want to check with your dealer to
 see if they will supply you with individual caps.  The individual
 caps tend to seal the best, and I believe are available upon
 request for little or no charge (unless your dealer just can't be
 bothered to get them for you).
 

I've used both individual caps and ganged caps, and I much prefer the
ganged caps. You don't realize how MANY caps there are until you have to
unscrew and re-screw them individually...

Plus, it is easier to set down / pick up / not drop a set of 3 than
three individuals.

It seems to me that the ganged nature of the caps shouldn't make the
pressure release valves in them any more or less good. (unless they
are by different manufacturers from the individual caps)

The benefit of individual caps is that you can trade out a single
leaky cap without replacing two others at the same time.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Flooded lead-acid ooopsie and how to correct best?

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 08/12/2014 08:57 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
 
 On 08/12/2014 02:39 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
 Another option is to add in an automatic water refill system, 
 similar to this: http://www.aquapro.net/overview_what.html
 
 
 That does look nicebut man...one website I found sold the caps
 for $10 each! (20 batteries * 3 caps each = $300 + accessories...)
 

Or rather $600 + accessories...pardon my math...

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 08/19/2014 07:54 PM, Ben Apollonio via EV wrote:
 True enough, but if a 200Ah cell fails shorted, it still has 200Ah
 to dump all by itself, which is likely to be equally catastrophic.
 I think the probability of occurrence is higher with 200 1Ah cells
 than with 1 200Ah cell, but the end result is the same.
 
 On the other hand, if you DO take precautions to isolate the
 parallel cells in a fault, you can limit the total energy released
 to the amount stored in a single cell (or a handful of small
 cells).  If I recall correctly, Tesla does this, including
 firewalls between modules, which is how they can get away with
 using 1000's of cells in a single pack.
 
 -Ben

The eSamba guy is using a piece of fuse wire to each cell, so that
if a single cell shorts out, the fuse wire blows. I believe the
assumption is that the then isolated cell won't be able to start
ITSELF on fire if it is not drawing current from all the other
parallel cells  I'm not sure if that is actually the case or not

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 08/19/2014 09:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
 So, if you want individual fusible cells, then a bus bar on both 
 terminals won't work.   One side can be spot welded but the other
 side needs the fuse wire - or something.  Not sure how that could
 be done in this model.  Does Tesla really have each cell fused?
 
 Part of my idea is to make each module easy to connect and swap
 out, if needed.  Also easy to pack into a tray.
 

Why not pressure fit?  Have a whole bunch of springs mounted on a
board spaced appropriately for your cells. You'd probably need a lot
of screws to hold the board flat (unless it was an especially thick
and rigid material).

You would still have to solder/weld a wire/fuse to each spring..but
you could do that at high temperatures without risking cell damage.

The contact/connection may not be as good as bolt on terminals, but
for 18650 cells you could probably get away with it without excessive
force. Flashlights do it all the time(I know, I know...lower
current...)

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 08/20/2014 10:22 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
 Jay Summet via EV wrote:
 The eSamba guy is using a piece of fuse wire to each cell, so that
 if a single cell shorts out, the fuse wire blows...
 
 That's a good plan. Do you know how he tested it, to be sure the fuse
 wire is sized right to actually work?

I believe he had a discharge tester and turned up the amps output until
the wire flashedaround 10 amps

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Incentives make buying a new EV better than buying used

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 08/22/2014 10:25 AM, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:

  LeasePurchase
 Year 1-3 Downpayment  $2400$2400
 36 payments @ $ 199$ 300
 Year 4-5 downpayment  $2400$   0
 24 payments @ $ 199$   0
 Total:   $16740   $13200
 
 $3500 more to lease and this fictitious example includes $15,000 federal
 tax credits!

But if you bought a 3 year old used Leaf (a 2011 model...) after 5 years
that is 8 years total on the battery pack, so you may need to replace
the pack as well.  With multiple leases you get a new pack every 3 years.

Plus with multiple leases you get a new 2014 model now, and a new 2017
model after that lease is up, with possible feature benefits and longer
range, etc...

In general I favor purchasing used over leasing for long term value, but
you can't just ignore the possible maintenance costs an 8 year old car
will have over a 0-3 year old car.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Should Extension Cords Be Used With Plugins?(don't get burned)

[Jay Summet via EV]

 
 My vehicle has an old-fashioned dumb charger that contains a
 (resonant) transformer, so the lower the input voltage, the lower
 the current.

I have a 120 volt QuickCharge brand boat anchor (super big
transformer) charger and it has that same feature.  It slows down when
you only get 108 volts at the end of a 200' run in a parking deck, but
it also works in reverse...

When connected to a 140 volt (poorly regulated AC generator) it kicks
up the current quite a bit!

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 02/04/2015 10:15 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Jay Summet via EV wrote:

I'm looking to buy a kit (or an assembled) battery charger for a 120v
lead acid system, with an eye to upgrading to a LiIon system in the
future (also near 120-130 volts, limited by my controller/motor combo).


Hi Jay,

If you want to build it yourself, have you considered an old school
charger as an alternative? A 120vdc pack is the sweet spot for making
very simple chargers.

In the extreme, a bad boy charger is just a bridge rectifier off the
120vac line. Or a half-bridge from the 240vac line. Add a series
inductor to handle the current peaks (a Bonn charger), and you have a
decent charger. Add a plain old 60 Hz transformer, and you have
isolation (a third world charger).

The easiest way to regulate it is with phase control. Use two SCRs in
place of the diodes in the bridge. This makes it equivalent to the
Russco or KW chargers.



Keeping things simple has some advantages, but I can't think of a way to 
do it safely without a quite large transformer. (I'm not comfortable 
with just a phase controlled SCR directly to mainsthen you lose the 
isolation protection from ground...)


My 110V charger is transformer based, and I certainly wouldn't want a 
LARGER transformer in my truck.


I suspect that simply by adding a solid state input cutoff relay and a 
voltage sensing circuit to one of my existing chargers I could get the 
same general price/performance as a bad boy charger.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/29/2015 11:00 PM, Don Bradley via EV wrote:

Jay,

 You may want to look at this charger for sale from Thunderstruck:

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/pfc-ii-2500-and-charge-controller.html



Thanks! I'm willing to go down to 2.5kW for that cost savings.

Plus the compactness is nice for my application..

Unless somebody chimes in with horror stories about this charger, I 
think this is my new front runner...


Also, the integrated j1772 signal decoding is a nice feature should I 
ever decide to move to that standard inlet (away from my current $25 
twistlock connectors...which are hard to beat for cost, but can't plug 
into L2 chargers that are starting to show up around town...) And the 
ability to replace a MiniBMS head board is very nice as well! I was 
looking at that when I switch to LiIon...


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/30/2015 01:11 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:


Brusa will.  They're one of the few manufacturers I know of that cater both
to OEMs and hobbyists.  They also have a Saft STM100 profile, which you
could probably edit for other Saft blocks.

A 1.6kw is $1775 and the 3.3kw chargers start at $2248.  Note though that
these power outputs are for batteries from 200v to 520v, and power output
will be lower at lower voltages (max current is 12.5a).



I have mostly decided against looking into the Brusa offerings because 
they are designed for higher voltage packs, and at 12.5 amps they will 
be only 1.6kW for my pack.  (Plus the expense...)


But if I was running a 200-300 volt pack they would be a nice full 
featured option.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

I think the hardest feature that I want (w.r.t. building a simple
bad boy style charger) is the ability to automatically work with
both 120v and 240v input, and switch between them without user
intervention.

With a simple phase control system, I imagine that this would mean I
would have to only have the SCR's turned on 50% of the time (or less)
when running at 240 volts, while using most/all of the phase at 120
volts.  (I believe this would result in the need for serious PFC?)

Is there a nice trick to passively switch between 120 / 240 input?

(e.g. some way to have a full bridge on 120 that automatically changes
to a half bridge on 240? I can't think of a way that doesn't involve
plugging the 120 and 240 inputs into different ports)

I suspect that I'd have to switch actively (relay or SSR) between two
different systems (PFC or taps on a transformer, etc...)


Jay
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[EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

I'm looking to buy a kit (or an assembled) battery charger for a 120v 
lead acid system, with an eye to upgrading to a LiIon system in the 
future (also near 120-130 volts, limited by my controller/motor combo).


Requirements:
 -Must support customizable charging curves that I can tweak between 
Lead Acid and LiIon or differing number of cells.


 -Must be able to auto-switch / auto-sense 120 vs 240 volt feeds.
  Most likely, this will mean it has a PFC front end.
 I specifically do NOT want to have to switch cables around.
  (Ideally it will be able to limit draw to 15/20 amps on 120 and 30/40 
amps on 240...but I'm willing to toggle a menu option myself if needed 
for current limit.)


 -Needs to support a minimum of 2,500 watts of charging at 240 volts. 
I'd prefer 3.3k or 6.6k, but 2.5k is a minimum. I don't really need a 
super high powered charger, but would consider a higher power charger if 
the price was right. I have a NEMA-14-50 outlet, so max of around 40 
amps at 240 volts or 9-10kW range.



Features I'd like:
  -I'd like to keep the price low, and am very comfortable assembling a 
kit of parts. (But I want to be able to buy a complete kit, I don't want 
to have to source parts from all over...)


 -A BMS input to turn off charging (I don't want to fuss around with a 
separate AC relay...)


 -I'd prefer an open source solution over a closed source solution, but 
as long as I can manually tweak the battery charging curves and amp 
draw, I'd accept a black box that is cheap.


 -Ability to have sdcard, bluetooth or wifi access to charge data 
logging would be very nice, but is not needed.


My maximum price point is around $2,000, and I'd really prefer to be 
closer to $1,000, so I'm willing to trade power for cost as long as it 
supports 2.5kW to 3.3kW charging...


Suggestions/recommendations/reviews or things to stay away from?

Thanks,
Jay


P.S. I currently have a 120 volt charger and a 240 volt charger that are 
both designed for lead acid, so I'll be saving some space by replacing 
them both, plus gaining flexibility for future upgrades.


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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/30/2015 12:27 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:

Jay wrote -


http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/pfc-ii-2500-and-charge-controller.html


Also, the integrated j1772 signal decoding is a nice feature


How is the  Proximity protocol implemented in the charger?



According to the website, it is implemented in the charge 
controller...(I was referring to the package linked above that you can 
purchase as the charger).


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

Thank you for all the pointers!
 
 That said... You will need two different cords anyway; one with a 120vac
 plug on the end, and one with a 240vac plug on the end. The cord itself
 can have a connector at the other end that plugs onto the charger with
 whatever wiring is needed to change voltages. For example, on products
 with a transformer having a dual primary, the 120vac cord can wire them
 in parallel, and the 240vac cord can wire them in series.
 

Why I'm trying to avoid that...

My charger is connected to the exterior power port with a 3 conductor
cable (I use one for ground, and the other two for hot/neutralin the
case of 240, I leave out neutral, and only use the L1/L2 and ground.  [3
conductor cables are inexpensive, they are called extension cords...4
conductor cables cost a lot more]

[Yes, running a 4 conductor cable would allow me to simplify the charger
design a lot ;]

I will make 2 cables that go from the exterior charge port to the
different outlets, but inside the truck I want the connections to remain
unchanged...



Jay
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[EVDL] Used Citicar in Alabama

[Jay Summet via EV]

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Hash: SHA1

I found this used citicar in Alabama on ebay, starting bid listed at
$1,500:


Item number 161641184142

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161641184142?forcerRptr=trueitem=161641184142


Red in color, sold as a project car and needs restoration, but it
looks quite complete.

Jay
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[EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf

[Jay Summet via EV]

I am now the new owner of a totaled Nissan leaf purchased at a salvage yard.

I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to 
tutorials/howto's/photos of anybody who has done this before.


The plan is to drop and disassemble the battery pack, and re-package the 
modules into sixteen set of 3 modules in parallel. (16S3P) This will 
replace my 20 X 6v golf cart batteries (120 volt) lead acid battery pack 
in a few months.


I am seeing advice on:
 1) How to drop the battery pack safely. I don't have a lift, but do 
have a large concrete pad. My current plan involves multiple floor jacks 
under the battery pack.  I know about the battery disconnect on the back 
passenger floor, but was wondering if there was a suggested side of the 
pack to drop first, how it disconnects, anything special to watch out 
for, etc..


2) Specialized tools needed. Any tricky bolts/screws I'll need to 
purchase special tools for?


3) Advice on pack disassembly.

4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell 
parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, 
size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series 
using my existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 
6 volt batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...)


As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am 
considering leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells 
later...(extra holes on one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a 
bit...)


5) I'm leaning strongly towards the MiniBMS boards for leaf cells, one 
per parallel pack of 3 cells, comments one way or the other?


6) I'm willing to pay $200-$300 for some type of automated battery 
charger/discharger with logging suitable for using on an individual 2S 
Nissan leaf module. (To test and possibly bin the modules). Anybody know 
of an RC type charger/tester that supports the 4.2v cells and can handle 
60+Ah discharge? (speed isn't terribly important...)


Thanks,
Jay



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[EVDL] Booting up a salvage Nissan Leaf

[Jay Summet via EV]

When my leaf was delivered it was dead, but I was able to boot it up,
clear error codes, and view the OEM BMS statistics via the OBDII port
and the Android Leaf Spy application. The charging system, High Voltage
battery and EV motive system all appear to be working correctly.

If you are interested, see all the pictures and read the details here:

http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/03/28/booting-up-a-nissan-leaf/


Or, read the wall of text that follows.

Jay




Hojas, the wrecked 2013 Nissan Leaf that I purchased at an auto auction
site was delivered to my house, and appeared completely dead. The first
thing I did was to check the 12 volt “accessory” battery, and found that
it had drained down to 1.5 volts. I think this was because in the
collision one of the rear doors was knocked ajar, and the interior
lights were illuminated because of that, but it could have also been due
to the 2-3 months it had been sitting in the auction yard, or perhaps
somebody initiated the emergency shutdown procedure.

IMG: 15972195_5X

After charging the 12 volt battery back up, I was able to put it into
“accessory” and “on” mode, but it would not switch into “ready to run”
mode. It was showing several error and warning lights, including the EV
system one (a yellow car with an exclamation point) and the airbag
warning one (Red airbag icon) likely due to the fact that the driver’s
front airbag had deployed… A few others (ABS/power steering) were also
on. It also refused to start charging via the (found in the back of the
car!) Nissan Leaf 120v trickle charger unit.

IMG: original_errors_main

But I was able to confirm that the pack was about half charged and the
dashboard claimed it still had 12 out of 12 bars of capacity. I also
removed the door open sensor so that the system thought the rear door
was fully closed.

My next step was to purchase a $10 OBD II bluetooth dongle, and the $15
“LeafSpy Pro” Android application. This application shows you detailed
information about each module in the battery pulled from the BMS system,
and also allows you to re-set some DTC trouble codes. Mostly I wanted to
check out what the OEM BMS had to say about the battery modules before I
pulled the battery, but I figured that if I could clear out some of the
trouble codes I might be able to get the car to charge (testing the
charger system) and or even move under it’s own power (with some wheel
dollies under the rear wheels….)

The news from the OEM BMS module was good:
IMG: battery_state

All cells were very close to the same voltage (within 11-13 mV), the
pack health metric was at 98%, and the voltage histogram was very bell
curve shaped and narrow.

IMG: voltage_histogram

Lots of DTC codes were thrown all over the place. (Crashes tend to tend
to trigger a lot of systems to say they might need to be checked
out…especially ones where the airbags go off…)

IMG: original_DTC_codes

I manually reset all of the codes, and when finished the only ones that
have reappeared on their own were the Airbags (no surprise) and several
ABS and brake systems (the rear wheels and rear wheel brake booster were
impacted, so I suspect if I looked up some of these codes they would be
from modules/sensors located on/near the rear end) and an external
temperature sensor. (The car claims it is -22 degrees F outside, so
somewhere an external temp sensor got crunched…)

IMG: final_DTC_codes

The real good news is that the general “EV parts” warning light (yellow
car with ! inside of it) turned off, which allowed the charging system
to function.

IMG: charging_lights

IMG: trickle_charger_working
I tested it using the Nissan 120v trickle charger and everything seems
good to go. The blue charging indicators lit up and the trickle charger
unit indicated that it was charging. I left the battery close to the 64%
state-of-charge I found it in, as keeping the modules partially
discharged for storage seems like the reasonable thing to do.

IMG: error_messages_mostly_cleared

Clearing the codes also allowed the car to get into the “READY” (to
drive) mode and show the green car icon with an arrow under it. I was
able to shift it into Drive and Reverse (the backup camera still works,
although it shows mostly wreckage hanging off the back of the car…)

IMG: backup_camera_works

Of course, once I try to drive the car other codes may get thrown….but I
don’t plan on driving it far, as one of the rear wheels has a piece of
steel body panel jammed into it…I have a set of wheel dollies shipping
towards me now.

IMG: cutting_wheel_free

I cut away all of the crunched plastic surrounding the front drivers
wheel, and I believe that if I put the rear wheels on dollies I will be
able to drive it around under it’s own (front wheel drive) power. If
not, I ordered a total of 4 wheel dollies, and can just muscle it to
where I need it to be…but the idea of drifting a Leaf along my driveway
to the garage with the back end on swivel casters has a certain appeal.

Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf

[Jay Summet via EV]

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I was searching YouTube and found a new video where a guy disassembled
a leaf pack. (He posted it only a week ago, which is why I hadn't
found it before.).

Good info for anybody looking to do the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0dDHJKzX78



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf

[Jay Summet via EV]

  
 You can purchase them NEW instead of use.
  
 Roland  


I am aware that I can purchase blocks of cells (from Hybrid Auto Center,
and others) which may be new, or old/unused stock, or pulled from
salvage depending upon source. I chose to buy a Salvage pack for cost
savings purposes.

48 modules at $130 per cell (I'm including shipping costs in that $130
price...seems to be a reasonable way to account of volume discounts of
larger packs...) is $6240

My cost for the complete 2013 leaf was $4100  (or $4407 including all of
the tools I had to purchase to move/jack the car and drop the pack) plus
a lot of my own labor.

If you have the money, buying just the modules or 1/2 packs already
ready to go is a good time saving measure, but if your labor is free,
you can get a lot more value with a (good) Salvage pack/car.

Because I got the whole car, I was able to connect to the OBDII port and
verify that the pack health was excellent, and I know for a fact that
it's an upgraded chemistry 2013 pack with 64 Ah capacity.

I'm currently saving about $1,800 over buying the modules alone, plus
any extra money I can recoup by selling parts from the rest of the car.
(such as the  wheels/tires, entire motor/charger/inverter unit, HVAC,
J1722 port, HV contractor, 250A fuse block, BMS, airbags, headlights, etc..)

Another person I know of purchased just a used pack from a junk yard
(without the car surrounding it) for $2600-2700, which is an even better
cost savings, and gives him less stuff to have to get rid of after the
fact...

Of course, they may stand behind their product better than CoPart's
Where is / As-is policy for salvage autos :

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 03/31/2015 09:12 AM, via EV wrote:

Anyone know what the maximum discharge rate is for the Nissan Leaf
batteries?


No hard facts, but here are my estimates:

The Nissan leaf battery is made up of 48 modules, each providing 7-8.2 
volts at 60Ah, for a total of 390-400 volt max @ 60Ah or ~24 kWh.


The leaf motor is rated at 80 kW, and the battery pack is supposed to be 
able to provide up to 90 kW (motor + all accessories), which at maximum 
voltage would be 228 amps. This is around 3.8 times C (60Ah) which seems 
to be easily in the realm of possibility, and matches up with the fact 
that the fuse in the leaf battery pack is a 250 amp fuse.


Individual modules MAY be able to provide  10C (600amps!) for a short 
period of time, but may also burst into flame or just die quickly if 
asked to do soI wouldn't recommend it!


I expect that they can provide a solid 3C rate for a relatively decent 
amount of time (30 seconds anyways) without any serious ill effects in 
the long term, which is very much in line with other lithium batteries.


For my application (S-10 pickup at 120 volts) I'll rarely need to go 
over a 300 amp draw (typically 50-100 amps continuous) and am planning 
on arranging them in sixteen series packs of 3 parallel modules, giving 
a 180-190 Ah battery at close to 120 volts. So my max discharge will 
probably be closer to the 1.7-2 C rate which feels relatively 
conservative to me.


Jay
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[EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack

[Jay Summet via EV]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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I wrote up details about the Salvage Auto-Auction process at CoPart
and my experiences purchasing a wrecked Nissan Leaf at the following
URL, along with a few pictures:

http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/03/26/how-to-purchase-a-leaf-battery-pack-and-surrounding-car/


I have also copy/pasted the text of my writeup below so that it can be
archived or read by people who don't want to click the URL.

Jay





How to purchase a Leaf Battery Pack (and surrounding car)
Posted on March 26, 2015



This is Hoja, a new (to me) 2013 Nissan Leaf. Hoja was rear-ended
sometime around December or January, and was “totaled” by his
insurance company, The Travelers Indemnity Company. They used Copart,
an auto-auction company to sell the remains with a salvage title.

I purchased Hoja just to obtain the LiIon modules in the battery pack,
and was happy to find that the dash console reports that the battery
has the full 12 bars of capacity, even though he has almost 19K miles
under his tires. I may also be able to use a few other parts such as
the J1722 charging port (and possibly the built in charger…), but the
majority of the car will be junk sitting in my back yard until I can
get rid of it.

My hope is that I will be able to sell many parts from the car to help
reduce the overall purchase price, and in this respect I think I am
lucky that the majority of the damage was to the rear end, in that the
motor/inverter/charger and front mechanical systems look to be in good
shape. (If anybody wants to buy Leaf replacement parts, email me…)



Details about the purchasing process

In Georgia, due to good lobbying by the established auto industry
players, only licensed “auto brokers/dealers/dismantlers” can purchase
used cars at the Copart auctions, but private individuals (with some
cash) can purchase cars with a Salvage title. All you need is a web
browser, and an established account on copart.com.

Note to potential buyers: You will want to set up your account with
Copart several days before the first auction you want to bid on. They
require that you send them a copy/scan of your drivers license (before
you can bid). It takes a few days to process, so don’t leave it to the
last minute.

You will also need to pay them a 10% deposit. (For example, if you
want to be able to bid up to $5,000, you need to pay a $500 deposit.
The deposit can be applied to your final purchase (by calling their
customer service agents) or simply refunded to your credit card after
the fact using their website.

Then, all you have to do is search for the type of auto you want
(making sure it has a salvage title, unless you are a licensed auto
broker/dealer/dismantler, etc) and place a bid.

Note that the bids you place on the Internet before the day of the
auction just sets the “starting bid” at the actual physical auction,
so even if you are “winning” the bid, you are not likely to win the
car unless you watch and bid in the “live” auction (unless you bid so
much that nobody at the live auction will go over your maximum bid
amount).

Some cars are sold on a “pure sale” basis, which means that the
highest bid will win the car. Most of the Leaf auctions that I watched
were listed as “on approval” which means that even if you win the
auction, the insurance company (seller) has the final say if they want
to accept the cash for the car, or if they want to keep the car and
try re-listing it at a later auction.

(I had one auction where I won the bidding but the maximum offer was
not accepted by the insurance agency seller.)

My tips for finding a cheap Nissan Leaf (for the battery pack):

Look for the most damaged car you can find. The more expensive it
will be to repair, the less likely somebody else wants it. The battery
is relatively well protected from front/rear collisions, and should
hopefully still be good.
Cars with multiple points of damage (front and back, or rollover)
are a good bet. Any car with “Biohazard” as a secondary damage type
(e.g. blood) also tend to sell for a lower price.
Look for cars with a low initial bid on the Internet the day of
the auction. (This may be a reason to NOT bid before the live auction!)
Keep a watch on all of the leafs, and if possible, watch the live
auctions to get a feel for the prices that they sell for so you know
what a “good” price is.
Know your maximum price point. Use a spreadsheet to calculate to
total cost includeing all fees (see below). Compare this to buying new
LiIon cells from your favorite distributer. Consider the extra labor
costs involved in removing the pack from the car and the modules from
the pack and re-packaing them into the form you need. I ended up
saving about 30% off the cost of used Leaf (2011/2012) modules
purchased on the Internet, even if I don’t end up selling anything
else from the car to offset the purchase price.
When you see a car at a good price, bid aggressively (e.g. as soon
as possible after 

Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 03/24/2015 01:50 PM, Michael Ross wrote:

I don't know how you would determine ahead of time if a Leaf pack has
much capacity remaining. There is a lawsuit out because Nissan did a
poor job of pack design  where high temperatures are seen.  Some packs
in hot climates have lost half their capacity in less than 2 years.
They needed to have a cooling system.

Something to consider when repurposing them yourself.  You never want
tot charge them fully, or you need to keep them cool when they are
charged fully.  This the damaging condition - fully charged, too hot.
It has nothing to do with charge or discharge rate.

You may want to only buy the packs for not much $, or get some sort of
warranty - unlikely for DIY applications.

Maybe if you knew the donor car was never operated in the deep
south...still is is more dicey than woith other packs.


The Leaf I bought has 18K miles on it, so I expect the pack has some 
(hopefully minor) capacity loss. It is a 2013 model, so I believe that 
has a slightly upgraded battery chemistry that deals with the heat 
better. I (and the leaf) is in/from Atlanta, so that's probably the deep 
south ;


However, the price was right for a used pack, as I'm getting a 24kWh 
pack for significantly less than the equivalent new price of lithium 
cells. (I'll probably post some info about buying a salvage Leaf later on..)


I also hope to be able to sell some of the other parts of the car that I 
don't plan on using to offset the expense.


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Jay Summet via EV]

 A 3kW one is only $1395
 
 http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=203vcharger
 

I like that option the most so far. (although I'd probably get the 160
volt 24 amp one instead of the 203v 20 amp one...)

It comes pre-built and costs about the same as the build it yourself
12KW monster kit, and is based upon a solid well tested charger.

One requirement I didn't list in my original email is that I'd prefer
the charger to fit inside the cab of my S10 pick-up, behind the seat
where the current chargers are located. The large size of the kit
charger (probably due to the 12000 watt capacity) would make that
difficult. The TCcharger looks to be a more manageable size... the 5.4
thickness is goodI can mount it against the back wall behind the seat...

The only thing I'll have to look into is if I can use the relatively
simple LiIon charging profile for my lead Acid batteriesor rig
something up to change the voltage/current setting on the fly.

It sounds like a CAN bus controlled charger may be the way to go, I like
the idea of just making a small CAN bus controller for an existing
charger...


 
 There's also a crew out there documenting the CAN-bus messages used by
 the Lear chargers in the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf. Those are showing
 up in junkyards and are fairly inexpensive.
 
Unfortunately, due to my low voltage requirements the Volt/Leaf chargers
wouldn't work for me.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Cmax solar concept.

[Jay Summet via EV]

Just re-watched the video...4.3m x 5.3 m canopy area, so 22 sq meters of 
lenses focusing on the top of the car. Assuming 1kW per square meter, 
50% for focusing loss, and 80% loss for solar panel conversion 
efficiency...(22 * .5 * .2   = 2.2) that gives 2.2 kWh of power (for say 
5-6 hours a day)...a respectable amount and it could work for a 
short daily commute.


Jay


On 04/21/2015 03:34 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNnupxkl2vA

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:


SOLAR Powered Passenger Car - Ford CMAX Solar Energi Hybrid Concept

|   |
|   |  |   |   |   |   |   |
| SOLAR Powered Passenger Car - Ford CMAX Solar Ener... |
|  |
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |

Pretty slick idea using Fresnel lens to concentrate the solar energy and
moving the vehicle to stay in the sweet spot.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Cmax solar concept.

[Jay Summet via EV]

YouTube url:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc2rZC4vSqQ


I believe this has been discussed on the list before.
 Issues I remember:
   -on 300 watts of power under full sunlight, so needs a solar 
concentrator carport to give more power. (how much more is not strictly 
specified, but it looks to be 5-10x the surface area, so perhaps as much 
as 1.5kW-2kW  of charging...so L1 or very slow L2?)
   -Car has to move (very slowly) throughout the day to stay under the 
focus spot of the solar carport. (orientation of carport must be 
correct as well.

   -Top of car roof will get HOT with concentrated sunlight on it.

I don't think any of the above are deal breakers, especially if the car 
can automatically roll down it's windows while charging under full sun.


Jay

On 04/21/2015 03:22 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

SOLAR Powered Passenger Car - Ford CMAX Solar Energi Hybrid Concept

|   |
|   |  |   |   |   |   |   |
| SOLAR Powered Passenger Car - Ford CMAX Solar Ener... |
|  |
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |

Pretty slick idea using Fresnel lens to concentrate the solar energy and moving 
the vehicle to stay in the sweet spot.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] mini bms cellmods

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 04/19/2015 11:51 PM, ken wrote:
 The ones I use start Shunting at 3.65 and HVC at 4.00 .
 

Dimitri from Clean Power Auto recommended against lowering the default
settings as it would leave capacity on the table (make it unable to
charge to absolute max), and that I could always set my charger to a
lower setting for daily charging as long as I balanced the pack initially.

Also, I imagine it's a bit more work to sell (and support) boards with
different custom settings for each customer.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

[Jay Summet via EV]

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I have a low range S-10 pickup conversion with lead acid batteries.
(I limit it to 20 miles a charge with new batteries, and after a year
or two the usable range is closer to 15 miles.)  It's also relatively
inefficient, especially for the stop and go driving I do, plus some
hills (500-700 watt/hours a mile depending upon how you measure).

Level 1 charging works fine for my short commute (5 miles round trip
daily), and I used level 1 for a year almost exclusively until I had a
240 volt outlet installed in the appropriate location.

However, if I want to make two trips in a day (Saturdays, to the
hardware store and then somewhere else, or going out after work) L1
won't cut it.

Level 2 (relatively low 240 volts @ 18 amps or 4.3kWatts) charging
makes the truck much more usable, as I can do two trips per day, and I
wouldn't go back to L1 except for opportunity charging where a 240
volt outlet isn't available.

That being said, if my truck had a 200 mile range, L1 charging WOULD
be fine for me, as I never really go more than 10-15 miles on any of
my trips.

Jay



On 05/14/2015 05:07 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:
 
 All I can tell you is that from our experience, L2 is not rapid 
 charging, it's normal charging. Whereas when you have somewhere to
 go soon, L1 is punishment charging.
 
 There are places where L1 works well, for example at an airport
 where the car is going to sit for days. And no doubt there are
 folks who don't need much spontaneity and have consistent daily
 needs (or another vehicle available) so that L1 would suffice.
 
 But while L1 can work for some cases, and it's nice to have in a
 pinch, it clearly limits what can be done with an EV.
 
 I wouldn't try to speak for most people, but I do think that
 flexible (home and away) charging options are big part of the
 equation for growing the EV market.
 
 L2 controllers do not cost thousands, ours was around $1k with 
 professional installation and construction permit. Faster home
 charging adds flexibility and makes the car investment worth much
 more.
 
 When 200 mile ranges become the norm, it will be even more useful
 to charge at home at L2 6.6kW (or more) at around 25 miles per hour
 (or more) instead of trickling in at 5 miles/hour or so - except
 for those who don't mind parking their car much of the time and
 limiting their EV options.
 
 The potential pricing of L3 charging is an interesting topic. Right
 now it's free or not much $$ around here. BTW, Nissan removed their
 earlier warning about L3 charging after monitoring the performance
 of the packs for several years, and perhaps after changing the
 battery chemistry.
 
 Cheers, -Jamie
 
 
 
 On 5/13/15 7:19 PM, Ben Goren wrote:
 On May 13, 2015, at 5:57 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
 wrote:
 
 It's the outliers that you have to accommodate.
 
 Yes, but not necessarily with rapid charging. When 200-mile
 ranges become the norm, as is promised soon -- say, a 40 kWh
 (usable) battery in a (conservative) 200 Wh / mile car -- the 
 situation becomes moot. Put 150 miles on the car in an unusual
 day. Put only 70 miles back in the car in a shortened overnight
 charge. The battery isn't full, but you've still got 120 miles of
 range. Do your normal (but still more than average) 40 miles the
 next day; down to 80. Put another 70 in overnight and it's back
 to full. At no time did you have less than 50 miles of range, and
 all your charging was at L1 rates only while you were in bed.
 
 Will that handle cross-country road trips? No. Can you drive to 
 Grandma 200 miles away at the end of the day after a 40-mile
 round trip commute? No. If you need to do that sort of thing
 often or without warning, you'll need something more.
 
 But most people will look at that and decide they can pay
 exorbitant rates at somebody else's rapid charger the once or
 twice a year that sort of thing happens, or rent a car, or
 otherwise manage, rather than spend thousands on a dedicated
 charger.
 
 Of course, if your car can only go ~60 miles on a charge and
 takes a lot of Wh to do so, range anxiety starts to set in and
 rapid charging is a real way to assuage it. But if you can be
 confident that you'll wake up every morning with more miles in
 the tank than you'll need to drive, range anxiety vanishes.
 
 ...not to mention that rapid charging tends to shorten battery 
 life
 
 b
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] How to open a 2013 leaf battery pack.

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 04/18/2015 11:13 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
 Jay, thanks for all the valuable information on procuring and
 opening a Leaf battery pack. Look forward to you getting it
 installed in your S-10.

I'll actually be taking things easy for a while, and don't plan on
swapping out from my (currently working well enough) lead acid pack
for many months. I need to upgrade my charger to one that can be
programmable for Lithium, and will work with the BMS system. Plus I
need to manufacture some busbars and mounting hardware.  The plan is
to make either 16 8volt batteries made from 3 modules each, or 8
16volt batteries made from six modules...


 Who knew there were so many wrecked Leafs out there?
 

I think they've sold 100,000 of them or so worldwide since introducing
the model...so having some wrecked isn't surprising. (What does
surprise me is how many NEW leafs are wrecked...I saw several 2015
models with only a few thousand miles on them)

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Removing a Nissan Leaf battery without an auto lift

[Jay Summet via EV]

Thanks, you had mentioned that they were sealed well before, and you are 
right!


I didn't have an Air Chisel, and it was a REAL CHORE removing it with a 
hammer and 11/2 putty knife! I probably spent 2 hours breaking the 
seal


But I eventually got it open:

http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/04/05/the-2013-nissan-leaf-lizard-battery-and-module-differences/

Are the 2013 batteries the lizard battery? Or is that only the 2014 or 
2015? My understanding was that the 2013 was the lizard battery, but 
others have told me the chemistry wasn't changed until 2014/2015...


The cells certainly look different (air vents, split sides, etc...) see 
the photos above for closeups...


Jay

On 04/05/2015 12:51 PM, Cruisin via EV wrote:

The video Ben Nelson has posted showing the disassembly of a Leaf battery is
the old battery type. Leaf has made a lot of modifications to the cells and
the metal container. Most importantly, you cannot remove the top metal cover
by simply removing about 40 bolts. The new style has about 8 molts and is
silicone together to prevent liquids from entering. It is a real chore
removing it with a air chisel. Just thought one should know this before
tackling the project.



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[EVDL] Removing a Nissan Leaf battery without an auto lift

[Jay Summet via EV]

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I was able to remove the Nissan Leaf battery using just jackstands and
3 jacks on a concrete pad without too much pain and anguish.

Writeup with pictures here:

http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/04/04/how-to-drop-a-nissan-leaf-battery-pack-without-an-auto-lift/

Short overview video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY8ZGOGYMQc

Wall of just the text follows.

Jay


How to drop a Nissan Leaf battery pack (without an auto lift)
Posted on April 4, 2015 

NOTE: The battery pack has 400 volts inside of it. Be sure you know
what you are doing and have the proper protective equipment, as it can
kill you! It also weights 600lbs, so it can crush you!

I needed to remove the battery pack from my Salvage Nissan Leaf. The
2013-Nissan-LEAF-DG.pdf (Disassembly Guide) I found on the Nissan
website has good instructions, but they assume you have an auto-lift
(and custom battery moving system).

I didn’t want to purchase an auto lift, so I did it with the following
tools on my concrete driveway.
tools_used

Class 0 – 500 volt electrically insulating gloves. Necessary when
pulling the service disconnect, and the high voltage cables leading
from the battery to the motor and interior cabin heater.
3 jacks. One was a nice 3 ton low profile rapid pump jack with a
maximum lift of 19″. The other two were 2 ton cheap jacks with only a
13″ lift. I would have liked to have three of the high lift jacks, but
cost is always an issue. If cost isn’t an issue, just buy an auto
lift, it would make a lot of things easier.
Several scrap pieces of wood, used to space up the 2 ton jacks to
be able to reach the battery while the car was lifted 15″ above the
ground.
(not shown, still under the car: 4 jackstands)
10mm double ended wrench, and 10mm socket wrench, mostly for
removing bolts holding the aerodynamic covers to the bottom of the
battery.
Air compressor, and 1/2″ impact driver, with 18mm socket. Note
that Harbor Freight sells sets of impact sockets that skip from 17mm
to 19mm, you really need an 18mm. I got mine at NAPA for $7
18mm wrench, for eight of the bolts holding the battery to the
bottom of the car (potentially optional, if you use the impact driver
for everything.)
16mm wrench, for 4 bolts on the back of the battery.
Prybar – used to pop the plastic rivet things holding the
aerodynamic plastic plates under the battery.
Goggles – Eye protection, used all the time, but ESPECIALLY when
popping the plastic rivet things, which crack and fly with quite a bit
of force.
Leather gloves – used most of the time, especially when putting a
lot of pressure on wrenches!
Black electrical tape  scissors – used to cover the exposed
terminals on the service disconnect, motor HV cable and cabin interior
heater connections on the battery.
Rubber Mallet – Used to bang on wrenches. Could also use a 16mm
impact socket with the impact driver.
Needle Nosed Pliers – Used only to pull the locking tab on the
interior cabin heater cable connector.

Safety first!

To make the battery less dangerous, I did two separate procedures
before removing it. First, I pulled up the service disconnect panel
(between the rear passengers foot wells), unscrewed the 10mm bolts
holding the metal cover down, and pulled the service disconnect from
the middle of the battery. This splits the battery into two ~200 volt
halves, instead of a single 400 volt whole. It also opens the circuit
to the high voltage cable connections.

service_disconnect_cover
service_disconnect_3_10mm_bolts
service_disconnect_plug

To remove it, you have to lift the back slightly (rotating it up),
press in a cache, and then finish lifting and rotating to a vertical
position, after which you can pull it out. I wore my 500 volt gloves
for this procedure.

service_disconnect_push_tab
service_disconnect_pulled
service_disconnect_rotated_all_the_way
After I pulled the service disconnect, I wrapped the socket with
electrical tape. The only way to make sure that nobody accidentally
puts the disconnect back in while you are not looking is to keep it in
your pocket. (I also bolted the cover back on.)

Note: The inverter portion of the motor unit has capacitors in it that
take a full 10 minutes to self discharge. So after you pull the
service disconnect, wait at least 10 minutes before doing any work on
the orange cables!

12v_accessory_battery
I also removed the connections to the 12 volt accessory battery. This
prevents the contractor in the battery from accidentally connecting,
hopefully keeping the high voltage terminals from being energized.
(However, when removing the connectors and covering with electrical
tape, I still wore my 500 volt gloves…)

Information about the battery:
The 2013 Nissan Leaf battery is 60.91 inches long, by 46.77 inches
wide, and 10.39 inches tall at the tallest point. The total weight is
606 lbs, and half of this weight is in the last 12 inches, so the
center of gravity of the 

[EVDL] Anybody want a leaf drive-train minus the battery? $1, 500 OBO + delivery costs from Atlanta

[Jay Summet via EV]

I was able to boot up the leaf and get it moving around under it's own 
power. (with wheel dollies under the rear wheels).


Video here: http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/03/31/its-alive/

So the entire drive-train up front is in working order. (charger, 
inverter, motor, gearbox, steering, all computer stuff, plus a lot of 
extras like power windows, wipers, headlights, etc...)


(Obviously, you'd need to get a salvage battery from somewhere to 
replace the one I'm taking, but a fully working drive train could be a 
nice (BIG!) project to put into something else or build an EV around...)


I've posted an ad offering to part it out locally, and people are 
already starting to ask about various parts.


Before I start taking things off, I was wondering if anybody wanted 
everything but the battery as a unit?


I figure I can get more than $1,500 for all the parts + scrap 
steelbut it would be a heck of a lot easier to sell it as a unit.


So if anybody wants everything except the HV battery, email me quick!

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] simple AC

[Jay Summet via EV]

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I sold a leaf compressor from my salvage Nissan Leaf to a guy who was
going to use it in his conversion (Mazda rx-7?).  It had two orange
wires that were directly from the battery voltage, and then some
smaller wires that I assume were the 12v signaling you are referring
to. I don't know the pinout or protocol it used. (If it was just 12
volts here to turn on that would be cool, but I assumed it was on a
CAN bus or something...)

Do you have any printers to a wiring diagrams, or which wires to
connect to 12 volts to get the leaf compressor to turn on?

Jay



On 06/12/2015 03:17 PM, Electric Blue auto convertions via EV wrote:
 ever seen a Leaf compressor?? it has 12 volt DC in put to run a
 AC motor, I think 300 volts, to the compressor, no belts . I have
 used many types like this, you can find them all over the web. But
 if you want to try and invent the universe with a stone axe, go
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Re: [EVDL] GC batteries

[Jay Summet via EV]

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 But the truth is that lead SLI batteries are good enough for the
 job, and they are CHEAP... cheap wins every time.
 

One place where Lithium may work better over Lead is for instant/auto
start/stop applications. (where the starter is much larger than usual
and can turn over the ICE very very quickly.

Newer (mostly European) cars with that feature will shut down the
engine when you push the brake in at a stoplight (some of them do it
as soon as you push the clutch in and are coasting to a stop...) and
not re-start the engine until you release the clutch.

Because the starter is much larger and requires more power, Lithium is
a better choice.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Success!

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 05/31/2015 10:33 PM, Ben Goren wrote:
 On May 31, 2015, at 1:12 PM, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
 The 2013 battery modules do have more air holes in them for
 passive thermal heating than the 2011/2012 modules.
 
 That sparks another interesting thought...would there be any
 particularly good place to position a box fan to maximize the
 effect of passive cooling?
 

Not really, because the modules are inside the big steel battery box,
and the battery box does not have any are holes. (it has a few
pressure equalization vents, but air shouldn't be flowing very fast
through them...)

I guess if you put a box fan directly under the car blowing up onto
the battery box (after removing the plastic under battery box plastic
aero panels) it could help, or if you found a hole to blow air in
between the aero panels and the battery boxbut proably not at all
worth the time/effort.


 Sounds like a sound plan regardless of whatever other steps they
 take to keep the batteries cool.
 
 Is there any benefit to charging to even less than 80%?

I don't belive so. My understanding is that the 20%-80% range is the
safe range. Anything below 20% or above 80% may lower the battery
lifetime.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Success!

[Jay Summet via EV]

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FWIWI believe that the thermal control on the 2013 batteries is
a set of heaters that can be turned on, and does not include any
active cooling.

You can see what I think are the heater elements in the upper right of
this image:
http://www.summet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/bms_busbars_complete1-1024x768.jpg

The 2013 battery modules do have more air holes in them for passive
thermal heating than the 2011/2012 modules.

My advice is to set the leaf to only charge to a maximum 80 %, and set
the timer such that it starts charging in the middle of the night
(3am? 5am?) whenever your outdoor temp is the lowest. (Potentially
stopping just before you plan to leave in the morning, if they have a
set schedule, so that it doesn't stay at 80% longer than it needs to.)

Jay

On 05/31/2015 09:59 PM, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
 Possibly, it may use more than the charger supplies but I see you
 point. Still don't believe the effect will be a cooler battery.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 31, 2015, at 2:41 PM, Peri Hartman pe...@kotatko.com
 wrote:
 
 Paul, I'm pretty sure that while in the garage the EV would be
 plugged=20 in, thus drawing line current, not battery.
 
 -- Original Message -- From: Paul Dove via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 31-May-15 12:24:39 PM Subject: Re:
 [EVDL] Success!
 
 Not to mention the fact that using a Battery heat it. Charging
 also=20 causes it to heat so using the battery while charging
 would beat the=20 battery even more.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 31, 2015, at 2:13 PM, Peri Hartman via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org=
 =20
 wrote:
 
 My first comment: did they have a great EV grin !
 
 On the A/C.  I think running the A/C while in the garage
 would make=20 things worse.  Don't forget that the waste heat
 from the A/C dumps=20 right back into the garage, so only the
 interior of the car would be=20 cooler.  Whether that means a
 net cooling or heating of the battery I=20 don't know, but I
 can't imagine it being helpful overall.
 
 Does the Leaf model they bought have battery thermal control?
 If so,=
 =20
 keeping that running would help, right, even though you would
 dump a=20 bit more heat into the garage.
 
 Third, even a window-mount A/C unit could have an effect on
 keeping=20 the garage cooler.
 
 Other things that could help the garage temperature.
 Insulate the=20 space.  Install fan ventilation - at least
 that will prevent it from=20 getting hotter inside than out.
 Put a highly reflective coating on=20 the roof to reflect
 more sunlight.  Sigh, all of these things cost=20 money...
 
 Peri
 
 -- Original Message -- From: Ben Goren via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 31-May-15 12:03:27 PM Subject:
 [EVDL] Success!
 
 So, Dad just drove Mom home in a 2013 Leaf. ~12k miles,
 California=20 vehicle; couldn't tell it from new. There was
 one bar missing from=20 the charge gauge; the numeric meter
 read, 98%.
 
 Everybody's excited. It should be well and truly perfect
 for them.
 
 One thought I had that I'm hoping somebody might be able to
 shed=20 some insight into...they'll be keeping the car in
 the garage, but the=
 =20
 garage isn't climate controlled. It probably won't quite
 get to=20 today's forecasted high of 108=C2=B0F inside the
 garage, but it'll=20 definitely get rather toasty.
 
 What are the chances that the car will let you run the
 air=20 conditioning while it's plugged in with nobody
 inside? Would that=20 actually do anything to make the
 batteries happier?
 
 b -- next part -- A non-text
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Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 05/30/2015 02:00 AM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
 On Fri May 29 16:19:59 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 Seems impossible to monitor how can they know how far I drove?
 
 There's this wonderful new invention that most cars have in them.
 It's called an Odometer.

I would much prefer having to get an official odometer check every
year (even paying $15 for it, like an emmisisons check) than have to
pay the current $200 a year flat fee that the state of Georgia has
just legislated.

(And I like the idea of a yearly visit much better than having to
carry around a GPS tracker ;)

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] GC batteries

[Jay Summet via EV]

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I had Sams Club batteries in my S10 EV (20 of them) for my first pack.
 They were Energizer EGC2 batteries. (The cost was around $1700 5-6
years ago.)

They lasted 2 years with good service, and I eked out another 3/4 of a
year with reduced range/capacity before replacing them. (686 charge
cycles total.)

You can read more about it here:
http://www.summet.com/blog/2013/11/24/electric-pickup-truck-cost-of-ownership/

And here:
http://www.summet.com/blog/2013/07/26/electric-truck-battery-pack-status-report/


I don't think that I badly mistreated them, but I didn't baby them either.

I have replaced them with Interstate GC batteries for my 2nd pack
(cost of ~ $2200, and so far I haven't seen anything that makes me
think the Interstate batteries are going to last a lot longer than the
Sams club batteries did. [I have already had to replace one that was
way under-performing the rest of the pack, but luckily I had a spare
of about the same age as the pack ready to go as part of my home UPS...]

So is the extra $500 for a name brand source worth it?

PerhapsI'll know for sure in a year.  For me, it was worth it,
because the Interstate dealer is about 2 miles from my house, while
the nearest Sams club that sells GC batteries is outside of the range
of my electric pickup.

When you only need six of them, I'd say drive to Sams club and get
them, at least for your first pack. Just make sure that all six
batteries are matched (have the same date code stamped into the
plastic, and measure very close to the same voltage.)

Jay




On 05/30/2015 01:56 AM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote:
 Hi again,
 
 Now trying to help select batteries for the ComutaCar.  I used
 Trojan T105s when I had it and the new owner is looking for the
 same since they are still in it but need to be replaced.  One of
 our local EV gurus suggested money could be saved by using some
 from Sam's Club where they can be purchased for under $90.00.
 Please offer opinions, but not to upgrade to lithium.  That would
 be overkill for a C-Car.  I have not bought batteries for so long I
 am not up on what is considered the best of the lead-acid for this
 purpose.
 
 Thank you for any information or experience you can provide related
 to what I am sure most of you consider old technology.
 
 Gail
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] leaf 60ah vs calb 60ah cells

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 06/29/2015 09:08 AM, Matt Lacey via EV wrote:

 For the case of like a 60 volts to 125 volts for a traction pack
 for like a scooter.. why do some choose leaf cells ? seems like
 you have to get a more specialised/ costly BMS like orion. I've
 seen youtube about Vectrix conversions using both. leaf cells are
 american  made ? do they have more cycles or power density ?

I decided to use Nissan Leaf modules for my 120 volt S-10 truck for
the following reasons:

 -Low cost availability of used cells - I can purchase a totaled
Nissan Leaf and (with some elbow grease) remove a pack of used cells
that are in very good condition for significantly less than I can
purchase new prismatic cells.

*This was the biggest deciding factor...I simply couldn't afford to
spend enough to buy a 24 kWh pack without buying it used.*

 -Possibly higher quality - Because I know that Nissan has handled the
quality control and bulk purchasing for me, I am guaranteed a certain
(automobile engineering) level of quality and regularity between modules.

 -Possibly longer life (for similar reasons to above...) By getting
modules from a 2013 battery I think I am getting the benefits of
Nissan's early experimentation.

 -Nice format - I like the general format and packaging of the modules.

 -Continued availability - If I need to replace a module, or even the
whole pack, I expect that there will continue to be easy availability
of replacement modules in the same form factor, and possibly with even
better capacity in the future due to the large number of Nissan Leaf's
on the road today.

For my high amperage/relatively lower voltage (small pickup truck)
application the 60 AH capacity is the only real downside. I'd prefer
180-200 Ah modules, so I am having to put them in parallel sets of 3.
But for a scooter or car with a high voltage controller/motor, you can
just put them in series like Nissan does.

I'm using MiniBMS, which is about as cheap as you can get, so the BMS
wasn't a big issue for me.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hey Buddy, Wanna buy a hot battery-pack cheap? CL-ad (v)

[Jay Summet via EV]

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On 05/26/2015 09:09 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

 The silver lining is that battery theft could decline as the market
 share for fully electric vehicles grows, as the batteries for such
 vehicles will most likely be so heavy that it would be impractical
 for the thieves to transport them. For instance, the battery for
 the Tesla Model S comes at a hefty 1,200 pounds.


I can't imagine stealing (just) the battery pack out of a Nissan Leaf
while it sits in a parking lot or at the side of the road it's a
relatively noisy process (I needed to use an impact wrench) and time
consuming process, not to mention the 600+ lb weight, and the need to
jack the car up quite high to get it out

Jay


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Re: [EVDL] Difference in water use per cell for GC batteries

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have seen that when a Lead pack gets older the batteries definately 
start to use a LOT more water.


However, it is usually (somewhat) evenly distributed across all of the 
batteries/cells.  (I did have a situation where one battery used up more 
watter than the others, and it was going bad faster than them, and was 
the first to die)


I would hypothesize  that the dry cells may be your worst cells (spread 
throughout the pack), but am also surprised by the large difference in 
water consumption you are seeing.


Jay

On 08/18/2015 03:57 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

My pack of 20 Golfcart batteries is now almost 4 years old and
it has brought my truck over 14k miles so far, but tonight when
I inspected a couple of the batteries I noticed something strange -
while some cells had minimal water loss (level about 1/2 under the
top of the cell) there were several other cells that barely had their
plates covered, the level had gone down more than a full inch in those!
How can this difference be explained?
It seems that low level occurred more in the center cell than in one
of the two side cells, but that may be a coincidence, unless it is heat
related. There is no significant loss of electrolyte from the cells,
the top of the battery has some baking soda, so I would have noticed
if there was a large amount of electrolyte escaping. All caps are
tight - I use speedcaps, which means 3 caps open/close at the same time.
I use an auto-shutoff refill bottle, so I am pretty sure that the cells
were refilled to the same level, now almost half a year ago when I
watered them all.
Is this normal for an aging pack?
This is my first flooded pack...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203


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Re: [EVDL] Old pack some cells using more water: Difference in water ...

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 08/18/2015 06:08 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


IMO, I would say you have gotten your money out of that old pack, and should
get a new pack so you can continue to enjoy your baby :-)


I agree, using Sams Club batteries I just got 3.75 years of life, and it 
looks like my pack of Interstate batteries will be around the same. (I'm 
working to replace them with LiIon modules I salvaged from a Leaf.)


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla power.

[Jay Summet via EV]

Did NOT work for me. (and I was logged into Facebook at the time.)
Jay

On 08/23/2015 11:25 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

Worked for me.

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 23, 2015, at 1:38 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
wrote:


On 22 Aug 2015 at 19:31, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

https://video.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xta1/v/t42.1790-2/11929873_10205680301981199_323626156_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjY1MSwicmxhIjo1MTJ9rl=651vabr=362oh=ca149d0d5f4510ab1fcde3196876a2a4oe=55D8F85A
 this one seems to work.  Lawrence Rhodes


Nope, that doesn't work either.

Sorry, something went wrong.

We're working on it and we'll get it fixed as soon as we can.

(Yes, I did try deleting the text  this one seems to work.  Lawrence
Rhodes from the end of the link.)

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not
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Re: [EVDL] BMS/ leaf 60ah vs calb 60ah cells

[Jay Summet via EV]

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Here is the link to the MiniBMS units:
http://minibms.mybigcommerce.com/minibms-cell-module/

You buy the 4.2 volt - LiNMC cells ( Leaf, Volt, etc ) option.

Jay


On 06/29/2015 06:21 PM, ken via EV wrote:
 Is there anohter BMS to use for leafs cells dicides orion?
 
 for like 125 volts?
 
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[EVDL] suggestions for non-conductive battery box liner?

[Jay Summet via EV]

I will soon be replacing the lead acid golf cart batteries in my truck 
with lithium cells (from a Nissan Leaf).


Currently, the battery boxes are lined with (decaying) 3/16 plywood, as 
well as 1/2 insulation foam on the bottom, as well as surrounding the 
batteries.


I'm interested in replacing the plywood with something non-conductive, 
and chemically inert (won't rot). It should be 3/16 (or thinner). I 
think I'd prefer rigid material, but would consider spray tack adhesive 
and a roll of rubberized material of some sort as well.


I plan on using the 1/2 foam again inside of it, so it doesn't need to 
be very shock absorbing.


What suggestions do people have?  I'm willing to pay up to three times 
as much as 3/16th plywood would cost, but the cheaper the better. I'd 
prefer things that can be purchased at a Home-Depot or Lowes, although 
I've ordered from McMaster Carr before


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] suggestions for non-conductive battery box liner?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 08/06/2015 11:24 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

I like epoxy-based spray-in pickup truck bedliner material. (Not the rubbery
glop, but the rock-hard stuff that you mix and apply with an undercoating
gun while wearing a good respirator.)  You can apply it right over bare,
clean, degreased, etched steel.

It should be available from a store that sells auto body materials.  You can
also contract with a professional applier who usually does truck beds.  That
will cost more, of course, but you won't have to worry about the poisonous
fumes from the spraying.

I take no credit for this idea.  Mary Ann Chapman first suggested here on
the EVDL in the mid-1990s.  She used it in her Desert Lightning conversion
pickups' battery boxes.



Not a bad idea, but I think I'll avoid it for two reasons:
1) My battery boxes are nowhere near clean or degreased or etched, and 
the prep work probably wouldn't be worth the effort.


2) It doesn't sound like something I want to do at home (more from the 
prep-work needed than the actual application), and since the batteries 
would have to be removed to do it, it would be complicated to get the 
truck to a professional applier.


If I was doing a brand new conversion where the battery boxes were brand 
new, I might be willing to buy the gun and respirator and do it at home, 
or hire a flatbed to get the glider to the applicator.


I actually think this would have more benefit on the OUTSIDE (bottom) of 
the battery boxes to protect from the elements.


On the other hand, the cheap rubbery glop may be something to consider, 
like tool dip for a battery boxespecially if I don't need to do any 
special cleaning beforehand


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] suggestions for non-conductive battery box liner?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Any reason to use high density (HDPE) or ultra high molecular weight 
(UHMW)  over the more inexpensive low density (LDPE)?


Jay


On 08/06/2015 09:13 PM, Paul Dove via EV wrote:

Polyethylene

https://www.interstateplastics.com/king-starboard-marine-board.php?searchtext=king%20starboardkw=king%20starboardgclid=COWny5fllccCFRCCaQodZcEObg


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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity

[Jay Summet via EV]

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If you are using GC2 style 6 volt golf cart batteries, they are
usually rated in minutes of 75 amp draw (Mine are 107 minutes).
They are rated at 208 AH (if you draw them down over 20 hourswhich
is unrealistic) and can probably deliver 110 or so AH when used at
high amperages.

My S10 pickup truck will regularly draw 300 amps while accelerating
from a stop (for short periods of time) and average 75 amps just
driving down the level road. They have lasted me 2-3 years at a time
with this type of use/abuse on almost a daily basis.

So if you never pulled more than 100 ah from them, I think they would
live for more than 3 years, especially if you were not using them
every day.

Jay

On 07/25/2015 09:11 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote:
 Continuing to cogitate on ebike batteries:  can anyone give me a
 good estimate of the number of ah one can pull from a lead golf
 cart battery?  I'm thinking my 2 20ah ebike batteries are a pretty
 good fraction of a lead pack.  Can you keep a lead GC battery alive
 if you pull 100ah from it? 
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[EVDL] 2011/2012 Nissan Leaf battery settlement....

[Jay Summet via EV]

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http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-battery-settlement-get-final-approval/

I hadn't heard much about this class action lawsuit, but apparently
any 2011/2012 leaf owners with less than 9 capacity bars will be
getting a brand new battery, and free access to a fast charging
network for 90 days (or a $50 check if they decline the charging
network bonus)

Jay
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[EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet & cable?

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've taken the J1772 inlet & cable from my salvaged (2013) Nissan Leaf 
and am planning on connecting it up to the new charger for my S-10 
pickup truck conversion.


It has the standard 5 pins (Hot/Hot/Ground/Proximity/Pilot). The two 
hots connect to two large orange wires. The  Proximity/Pilot connect to 
two small wires that come out of the harness close to the inlet.


However, there are THREE green wires that emerge from the back end of 
the harness. One large, which is connected to the ground pin on the 
J1772 inlet, and two other smaller green wires that are connected to the 
large green wire via a shared ring terminal.  I don't know what these 
two small green wires go to, but it's not any of the pins on the J1772 
inlet!


When I disconnected them from the ring terminal, they do not have 
connectivity to any of the other wires, or to any of the pins on the 
inlet.  As far as I can tell, they just go into the harness heading 
towards the inlet and disappear!


The only thing I can think of is that they are routed near to the HOT 
wires in such a way that if the hot wires are compromised they may short 
out to ground?


Has anybody got a definitive answer to what these two guys are for?
I can post photos of them if you want to see, but I figure that anybody 
who already knows the answer won't need the photos


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Jay Summet via EV]

I would recommend staying away from the 2011/2012 leafs for several reason:

1) Parts for the 2013 leaf work with 2014/2015 (and probably 2016). 
Between the 2012 and 2013 they upgraded quite a few things (probably 
improving most of them).


For example, they moved from using external chargers (in the trunk area) 
to a combined/integrated charger that is in the power distribution box 
on top of the inverter.  The whole motor/inverter/power distribution box 
is a very nice package on the 2013+ leafs.


I feel that going forward, finding parts and aftermarket accessories for 
the 2013-2016 leafs will be easier than the 2011/2012 models


2) The 2013 leaf batteries are definitely different (at least in the 
physical form factor, and possibly in the chemistry) from the 2011/2012 
model. I suspect that the 2013 batteries will last longer than the 
2011/2012 models.


3) The 2013 leafs are going off-lease now, so you can find a lot of 
deals on used 2013 leafs. The 2011/2012 leafs are probably also cheap, 
but probably not so much more cheap that it's worth looking at.



Once you've decided on a 2013 leaf or better, the one feature I'd look 
for would be the QuickCharge port, as that indicates the upgraded 6.6 kW 
charger, as well as the ability to quick charge if needed.


The SV/SL models with the heat pump and extra features are a nice bonus, 
but I wouldn't pay extra just to get them. (The SatNav is especially not 
worth paying extra for, the one on your cell phone is better.)


Jay

On 11/12/2015 07:50 PM, Jamie K via EV wrote:


I hope you're right, Ben. The LEAF is a top seller for EVs so it seems
like there will be a reasonable battery market to serve.

One more thing for the OP: the 2013 and later LEAFs have a bit more
trunk space than 2011/12 LEAFs.

Cheers,
  -Jamie


On 11/12/15 3:26 PM, Ben Goren wrote:

On Nov 12, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Jamie K via EV 
wrote:


It would be cool if, when the time comes to replace the batteries
(in another 5+ years), Nissan would offer higher range choices for
replacement packs.


Nissan is almost going to have to...but, even if they don't, somebody
else will. The Leaf is the electric version of the Model T Ford.
You'll still be able to buy parts for a Leaf for many decades to
come, maybe even a century, and people will prize them the same way
we do the Tin Lizzy.

Third-party battery replacements won't be that big of a deal. The
volumetric efficiency of batteries is increasing at a pretty rapid
pace, and there's not all that much to the Leaf's battery system. It
doesn't make sense today for a third-party manufacturer to start
making Leaf batteries, but, as soon as there's a market for them that
Nissan doesn't fill, you can bet that market will get filled by
somebody else.

...and, in the mean time, places like the Hybrid Auto Center sell
Leaf packs that, at least on paper, look mighty attractive for DIY
conversion projects

b&



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Re: [EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet & cable?

[Jay Summet via EV]

The charging "bay/door area" on the Leaf is lighted, but that light is 
in a different location and separate from the actual inlet.


I don't see any LED's/lights inside the inlet itself (and I can't find 
any other wires for LED's (unless they are powered by the 
pilot/proximity lines themselves...)


Jay

On 11/14/2015 10:02 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:

Jay, is the inlet lighted?
Could it be ground returns for LED's?

Al

On 11/12/2015 9:34 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:

I've taken the J1772 inlet & cable from my salvaged (2013) Nissan Leaf
and am planning on connecting it up to the new charger for my S-10
pickup truck conversion.

It has the standard 5 pins (Hot/Hot/Ground/Proximity/Pilot). The two
hots connect to two large orange wires. The  Proximity/Pilot connect
to two small wires that come out of the harness close to the inlet.

However, there are THREE green wires that emerge from the back end of
the harness. One large, which is connected to the ground pin on the
J1772 inlet, and two other smaller green wires that are connected to
the large green wire via a shared ring terminal.  I don't know what
these two small green wires go to, but it's not any of the pins on the
J1772 inlet!

When I disconnected them from the ring terminal, they do not have
connectivity to any of the other wires, or to any of the pins on the
inlet.  As far as I can tell, they just go into the harness heading
towards the inlet and disappear!

The only thing I can think of is that they are routed near to the HOT
wires in such a way that if the hot wires are compromised they may
short out to ground?

Has anybody got a definitive answer to what these two guys are for?
I can post photos of them if you want to see, but I figure that
anybody who already knows the answer won't need the photos

Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet & cable?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Yes, I've taken out that LED light already, and it has a separate set of 
wires.


Jay

On 11/14/2015 11:17 PM, Tom Keenan wrote:

If I remember correctly, the charging area was unlighted until the 2013 model 
year. There is a LED light between the CHaDeMo port and the J1772 inlet on 2013 
and newer model years.  Not sure if the J1772 wiring involved anything with the 
lighting setup.

Tom Keenan


On Nov 14, 2015, at 7:54 PM, Jay Summet via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

The charging "bay/door area" on the Leaf is lighted, but that light is in a 
different location and separate from the actual inlet.

I don't see any LED's/lights inside the inlet itself (and I can't find any 
other wires for LED's (unless they are powered by the pilot/proximity lines 
themselves...)

Jay


On 11/14/2015 10:02 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
Jay, is the inlet lighted?
Could it be ground returns for LED's?

Al


On 11/12/2015 9:34 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
I've taken the J1772 inlet & cable from my salvaged (2013) Nissan Leaf
and am planning on connecting it up to the new charger for my S-10
pickup truck conversion.

It has the standard 5 pins (Hot/Hot/Ground/Proximity/Pilot). The two
hots connect to two large orange wires. The  Proximity/Pilot connect
to two small wires that come out of the harness close to the inlet.

However, there are THREE green wires that emerge from the back end of
the harness. One large, which is connected to the ground pin on the
J1772 inlet, and two other smaller green wires that are connected to
the large green wire via a shared ring terminal.  I don't know what
these two small green wires go to, but it's not any of the pins on the
J1772 inlet!

When I disconnected them from the ring terminal, they do not have
connectivity to any of the other wires, or to any of the pins on the
inlet.  As far as I can tell, they just go into the harness heading
towards the inlet and disappear!

The only thing I can think of is that they are routed near to the HOT
wires in such a way that if the hot wires are compromised they may
short out to ground?

Has anybody got a definitive answer to what these two guys are for?
I can post photos of them if you want to see, but I figure that
anybody who already knows the answer won't need the photos

Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet & cable?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Yes I did, but I'm afraid I already sold it to Bill Dennis.

Jay

On 11/15/2015 11:01 AM, Paul Wallace via EV wrote:

Jay,
did you have a Chademo connector that survived the crash?  I've been looking 
for one for my S10.

thanks,
Paul Wallace
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Re: [EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet & cable?

[Jay Summet via EV]

All of the wiring diagrams I can find online only show five wires.

Pilot/Proximity (I've identified those).

Ground and the two hot (I've identified thoese).

But they don't have two other wires connected to the ground wire anywhere.

Are you saying that the two smaller green wires that are connected to 
the large green wire are part of a isolation ground circuit?


Jay


On 11/15/2015 10:12 AM, Roland wrote:

Just type in your search engine - J1772 wiring diagram and you will see
the light-
I am using a industrial 5 wire receptacle and plug in my EV that has a
extra isolation ground circuit.  A isolation ground circuit is only
connected to the circuit and/or circuit board and nothing else.  If the
isolation ground circuit shorts to a conductive housing, then there is a
ground detection circuit that opens up a contactor or a shunt type
commercial circuit breaker.
Roland

- Original Message -
*From:* Jay Summet via EV <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
*To:* Electric Vehicle Discussion List <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
*Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 6:08 AM
*Subject:* Re: [EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet
& cable?

Yes, I've taken out that LED light already, and it has a separate
set of
wires.

Jay

On 11/14/2015 11:17 PM, Tom Keenan wrote:
 > If I remember correctly, the charging area was unlighted until
the 2013 model year. There is a LED light between the CHaDeMo port
and the J1772 inlet on 2013 and newer model years.  Not sure if the
J1772 wiring involved anything with the lighting setup.
 >
 > Tom Keenan
 >
 >> On Nov 14, 2015, at 7:54 PM, Jay Summet via EV
<ev@lists.evdl.org <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>> wrote:
 >>
 >> The charging "bay/door area" on the Leaf is lighted, but that
light is in a different location and separate from the actual inlet.
 >>
 >> I don't see any LED's/lights inside the inlet itself (and I
can't find any other wires for LED's (unless they are powered by the
pilot/proximity lines themselves...)
 >>
 >> Jay
 >>
 >>> On 11/14/2015 10:02 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
 >>> Jay, is the inlet lighted?
 >>> Could it be ground returns for LED's?
 >>>
 >>> Al
 >>>
 >>>> On 11/12/2015 9:34 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
 >>>> I've taken the J1772 inlet & cable from my salvaged (2013)
Nissan Leaf
 >>>> and am planning on connecting it up to the new charger for my S-10
 >>>> pickup truck conversion.
 >>>>
 >>>> It has the standard 5 pins (Hot/Hot/Ground/Proximity/Pilot).
The two
 >>>> hots connect to two large orange wires. The  Proximity/Pilot
connect
 >>>> to two small wires that come out of the harness close to the
inlet.
 >>>>
 >>>> However, there are THREE green wires that emerge from the back
end of
 >>>> the harness. One large, which is connected to the ground pin
on the
 >>>> J1772 inlet, and two other smaller green wires that are
connected to
 >>>> the large green wire via a shared ring terminal. I don't know what
 >>>> these two small green wires go to, but it's not any of the
pins on the
 >>>> J1772 inlet!
 >>>>
 >>>> When I disconnected them from the ring terminal, they do not have
 >>>> connectivity to any of the other wires, or to any of the pins
on the
 >>>> inlet. As far as I can tell, they just go into the harness heading
 >>>> towards the inlet and disappear!
 >>>>
 >>>> The only thing I can think of is that they are routed near to
the HOT
 >>>> wires in such a way that if the hot wires are compromised they may
 >>>> short out to ground?
 >>>>
 >>>> Has anybody got a definitive answer to what these two guys are
for?
 >>>> I can post photos of them if you want to see, but I figure that
 >>>> anybody who already knows the answer won't need the photos
 >>>>
 >>>> Thanks,
 >>>> Jay
 >>>> ___
 >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
 >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
 >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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[EVDL] How to build a 16 volt / 180 AH battery from six Nissan Leaf cells

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've finished building eight "batteries" from my salvaged Nissan Leaf 
pack. Each battery is ~16 volts and 180 Ah (3P2S arrangement of modules) 
and weights just under 60 lbs. My final pack will be ~128 volts and 180 
Ah and weigh under 480 lbs.



You can watch a video of the build here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF3PKiim61U


A writeup with more pictures is here:
http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/10/31/how-to-build-a-16-volt-battery-module-from-six-nissan-leaf-cells/

I still have to wire up all of the mini-BMS circuit boards, and get my 
new charger set up and tested before I install them in the (Chevy S-10 
conversion) truck, but my switchover from Lead Acid is getting close.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 10/16/2015 02:13 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:
> 
> Jay Summet  wrote
>>
>> The only downside I see with the JuiceBox is that it is (not yet) UL
> Certified, although they
>> claim to be undergoing that multi-month long certification process now.  This
> is disclosed
>> on the website if you look.
> 
> Why is UL certification important to you?
> 

I personally have already bought the unit, trusting that the
manufacturer has designed and tested it appropriately.

But, having an independent lab test the device and find that it is in
compliance is always better than having to trust the manufacturer.

It may be important to others because some power company rebates specify
that the EVSE must have UL certification to qualify for the rebate.

Jay Summet

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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support

[Jay Summet via EV]

I also just purchased a JuceBox Pro 40. It worked exactly as it was 
supposed to, the (android app) is simple but works exactly as it is 
supposed to, and when I asked them to send me an invoice via email they 
got back to me within 24 hours.


I have not asked any technical questions, but my experience with the 
product and customer support have been fine so far.


My understanding is that once you set the charging amp limit, it will 
not change until you modify the setting again.


Jay Summet

The only downside I see with the JuiceBox is that it is (not yet) UL 
Certified, although they claim to be undergoing that multi-month long 
certification process now.  This is disclosed on the website if you look.



On 10/16/2015 06:41 AM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:

Thanks for this.  I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a juicebox
myself.  As a perpetual electrical noob I can't afford an EVSE at an
attractive price that has no support.

Chris

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Ken Olum via EV  wrote:


At the end of June I bought the JuiceBox 40 Pro EVSE from Emotorwerks.
I paid $600, and I think that's enough that I'm entitled to a little
customer support.  But I've 4 sent requests to their support address and
never received a satisfactory answer.  In some cases I got a reply, but
the reply was "so-and-so is the expert on this and will get back to you
and answer your question" and then I never heard from so-and-so.

Before sending this message, I complained to them about the fact that I
wasn't getting any support, and that complaint also went unanswered.

So, at this point, I feel I should warn other EV drivers not to buy from
Emotorwerks if you want to be able to ask any questions or get any help
with your equipment.  I'm sorry to do it.  I thought this was a
promising company with an interesting piece of equipment at an
attractive price.

They are very proud of the fact that it's open source.  Anyone know
where to find the source?  I guess I should read it if I ever want to
get an answer to my main question, which is "How does the unit manage
the charging current limit in cases where the connection to
Emotorwerks's servers is not completely reliable?"

 Ken Olum
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Re: [EVDL] suggestions for non-conductive battery box liner?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 08/31/2015 05:58 PM, Peri Hartman wrote:

Well, there's a lot of good to say about plywood.  It's non conductive,
extremely strong, flexible, won't corrode, won't melt, easy to work
with, relatively light.  It burns and rots are it's two drawbacks.  You
might not have a rot problem any more since, I think, you are moving
away from lead.



That was basically my reasoning too...

I'm not sure if the rotting I saw was from acid escaping / water leaks 
from refilling the battery, or if it was from environmental water 
getting in. If the former, things should be better, if not, it is cheap 
to replace every so often


Since I'm using plywood for the end plates to compress my leaf modules, 
I decided that having a non-flammable battery box liner wasn't really 
worth paying extra for. I figure the cells themselves are the major fuel 
source, and if something does happen, the extra fuel from the plywood 
isn't going to matter


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: UL-unqualified EVSE lost EVr a $500 utility PSE rebate

[Jay Summet via EV]

This story worried me for a bit, as I had just ordered a JuiceBox to 
install in Atlanta, GA and am planning on applying for the GaPower $250 
rebate.


I went back and double checked the terms of the GaPower rebate form and 
it has no "UL Listed" requirement, so hopefully this won't affect those 
of us who are with GaPower.


Jay


On 09/16/2015 05:21 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Apparently, PSE does not understand the definition of the word "or".

In their requirements it says:
"Chargers that are not UL rated, or do not meet codes and standards will not be 
eligible for the rebate."

This statement with the word "or" clearly shows that it supports either UL or 
alternative
standards that show that the product is safe.
However, PSE decides to stick to their interpretation that only UL is an 
allowed standard.
Which is somewhat weird, because although UL has great brand recognition and is 
one of
the forefighters of safety certification, this is a private company and has many
competitors that have equally good safety standards, often rather 
interchangeable.
But of course a power company can just create the "law" that only UL is allowed
and thus (contrary to the "or" in their requirements) a product can only be 
accepted
if it satisfies UL *and* other codes and standards.
Sad that this EV'er has to lose his rebate over the incorrect language in the 
requirements.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com



This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 2:00 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: UL-unqualified EVSE lost EVr a $500 utility PSE rebate



http://www.komonews.com/news/consumer/Detail-confusion-costs-electric-car-owner-a-500-rebate-from-PSE-325827211.html
Detail confusion costs electric car owner a $500 rebate from PSE By Connie 
Thompson  Sep 8, 2015

[video  flash]
Puget Sound Energy is offering $500 rebates to electric vehicle owners who 
install new EV chargers at home.  But Joe Gehr of Kent just learned the hard 
way about verifying rebate details before you spend money.  His rebate claim 
was rejected because of one line in the rebate rules.

Gehr loves his Nissan Leaf, but the 120 volt factory charger that comes with 
the car takes forever to charge the battery.

"They provide a level 1 charger with the car," said Gehr. "And it will take 14, 16, 
18 hours to charge it."

Like many electric vehicle owners, Gehr bought what's called a "level 2"
charger, for a quicker charge at up to 220 volts.

"So I'm bringing 220 volts AC into this, " Gehr  explained. "Then this converts it 
to DC. So I'm charging like you would a boat battery with DC."

The charger cost him $600 bucks. He figured he'd get most of that back through 
the $500  EV charger rebate promotion he found on Puget Sound Energy's website. 
Gehr was certain his charger -- a brand called JuiceBox -- met the 
qualifications. But his rebate was rejected.  PSE points to a critical sentence 
in the rules, which state:

"Chargers that are not UL rated, or do not meet codes and standards will not be 
eligible for the rebate. It's an Underwriters Laboratories safety requirement for 
electrical devices."

"We're very concerned about customer safety,"  said PSE spokesman Ray Lane by 
email.

"The language on our website is clear about this, and the customer's inability to 
meet the necessary codes and standards for the install leave us with rejection as the 
only option."

Gehr acknowledges his EV charger is not UL rated, but points out it has other 
certifications which are listed on PSE's website.  Gehr feels the way the rules 
are written, it sounds like the charger has to be UL rated 'or'
meet certain standards, not both.

PSE says Gehr misunderstood the qualifications and the lack of a UL rating is a 
deal breaker.  The only way he can get a rebate is to replace  the charger he 
bought- with a charger that's UL approved.

Gehr is not the first PSE customer with JuiceBox brand chargers to have their 
rebate rejected . PSE tells me it's had about 10 other people buy JuiceBox 
chargers that don't qualify for their rebate because they're not UL
rated-  another reminder to confirm the qualifications before you spend a lot 
of money on anything as part of a rebate promotion.

The PSE EV rebates started in May of 2014 as part of a program to study 
electric vehicles and the power grid. The utility says it has sent rebates
of $500 to about 800 eligible customers so far.   The program allows for

Re: [EVDL] EV pioneers

[Jay Summet via EV]

I now have 45kW of Nissian battery pack in the EV.



Parallel six strings of batteries for 226 volts per string for a total of 199.8 
AH.


I'm confused about the number of Leaf modules you have installed.  Each 
module is two cells and around 8 volts (8.4 max) and 60 AH of capacity.


226 volts would be 27-28 modules per string. If each string has 60 AH, I 
would expect the total of six strings to have  360 AH capacity. (Is the 
199.8 Ah capacity just your "usable" capacity? That seems very 
conservative.)


If you have 28 modules per string and 6 strings that would be 168 
modules, or 3.5 Leaf batteries, which would be around 84 kW, not 45 kW.


45 kW would be around 1.875 Leaf batteries, or 90 modules.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Light-weight 100W PV roof panel for 48V e-carts> ?Is it worth it?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 09/22/2015 09:19 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 22 Sep 2015 at 3:50, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


? Is this a useful product worthy of the co$t, or is it a profitable
feel-good add-on for bragging-rights ?



What it MIGHT do that's potentially at least as useful -- IF you park mostly
in the sun --- is dribble a little charge back into the battery when the car
isn't being driven.  That'll improve battery cycle life a bit.  Calculating
whether the resulting battery cost savings will offset the cost of the PV
panel will be left as an exercise for the reader. ;-)


On the other hand, if you only use your golf cart lightly only on the 
weekends, it may be able to recharge it the rest of the week.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] A L2-3kW EVSE to replace Steve's WA-storm-damaged one

[Jay Summet via EV]

Even if the electronics are fried, the cord/gun could be connected up 
with an Open EVSE type kit to make a new one and retain a lot of the value.


Jay

On 12/10/2015 09:44 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 9 Dec 2015 at 23:55, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


IMO your drowned-(its dead Jim)-EVSE ... should be laid it to rest in a
recycle-bin.


You might be right, but still 

I don't make a habit of drowning electronics.  However, once while working
on our spring house, I accidentally knocked my nearly-new cordless drill
into the water.

It seemed totally dead.  But I took it apart, rinsed the circuit card and
switch in distilled water, and dried everything out.  Lo and behold, it
revived, and runs fine to this day.

Steve says he tried "drying and cleaning."  He doesn't state how.  If he
hasn't tried distilled water, I recommend it.  Follow with 24 hours under a
heat lamp.

Lee Hart may have further suggestions.

I just hate to see expensive electronics junked until all avenues of revival
have been explored.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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[EVDL] Report: Thunderstruck Motors Dual TMS2500 & EVCC package

[Jay Summet via EV]

I purchased a TSM charging package for $1200 (shipped) that included 
dual TMS2500 (AKA CH4100) chargers and an EVCC for my S-10 truck.


Summary: I've been quite happy with the solution for a low cost and 
reasonable performance (4-4.2kW) charger system. (For more money you can 
get higher capacity PFC chargers with the EVCC.)


You can see some photos and read more about my experience using them here:

http://www.summet.com/blog/2016/01/03/thunderstruck-motors-dual-tms2500-evcc-charger-package/


(I've only charged 4-5 times with them so far, but everything is working 
well.)


Jay
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[EVDL] Pictures & video of Lead Acid to Leaf modules upgrade process

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've published a writeup and pictures of upgrading my S-10 conversion 
from 20 six volt lead acid golf cart batteries to 8 custom batteries I 
built out of 48 Nissan Leaf modules. (6 modules per "battery").


You can see the pictures and writeup here:
http://www.summet.com/blog/2016/01/03/lead-acid-to-nissan-leaf-pack-upgrade-process


If you really want to see EVERYTHING I did, and have a spare hour, the 
bottom of this post,


http://www.summet.com/blog/2016/01/02/leaf-modules-powering-s-10/

has a link to a 1 hour long video that shows just about everything I did 
(including large sparks and a bonus drinking game to make the time fly...)



[Eventually I'll probably edit that 1 hour video down to a 5-10 minute 
"best of" video, so if you don't have an hour, wait a while for that one 
to come out...]


Jay
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[EVDL] Melted fuse leg (not blown fuse!)

[Jay Summet via EV]

Has anybody ever melted the plastic and holder of an Automotive ATC 
fuse, without blowing the fuse itself?


I had a cheap AutoZone in-line fuse holder with a 30 Amp fuse on the 12 
volt line between the DC-2-DC and accessory battery, and today one side 
of the holder and one side of the fuse melted and made a nasty burning 
smell while I was driving down the road.


This was especially concerning with my new Leaf Modules just recently 
installed ;>


I was actually quite relieved to find it was "just" a melted fuse. The 
funny thing is that the fuse itself didn't blow, it still has 
connectivity when I touch inside where the leg used to be.


The only thing I can think of is that while I was moving wires around 
for the install of the new charger the fuse got slightly jolted and one 
leg had a loose contact with the holder, causing a high resistance 
connection and lots of heat without going over 30 amps.


Impressively melted photos here:
http://www.summet.com/blog/2016/01/04/melted-fuse-leg/

Jay
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[EVDL] Any interest in 120 volt Lead Acid chargers?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Having upgraded my charger as part of my truck battery upgrade, I am now 
left with two chargers suitable for a 120 volt lead acid pack that I 
don't plan on using again.


I haven’t bothered to remove them from my S-10 (they sit behind the seat 
in the cab, and the new charger is mounted in the old front battery bay 
space) but eventually I plan on taking them out. If you are interested 
in either of them, make me an offer...any offer


1)   Zivan NG3 (240v AC input-> 120v output)

 My former 240 volt L2 charger. Limited to 18-19 amps output, so around 
2400 watts. IMHO this charger is programmed from the factory slightly 
"hot" and would probably work well for a 126, 128, or even 132 volt lead 
acid pack. With my 120 volt pack (20 6v GC batteries) it would basically 
do an equalization charge every time. Zivan disagrees with me, and says 
that the 151-154 volt ending voltage is perfectly fine for 20 6v golf 
cart batteries.

 (Can come with a 30 amp 240 volt twist lock connector and all cables.)


2)   QuickCharge Select-a-charge (120v input)
  This is a charger based around a large  (boat anchor) transformer, so 
it's probably fully isolated, used for 120 volt opportunity charging at 
12 amps.

Possibly the model number is: SCO -120-10 (120V 10 amps)
   Gets up to 148 volts at the end of the charging cycle.
   (can come with a 120 volt RV style connector and all cables.)


I have some PDF manuals for them as well, if you want to see them send 
me an email and I can forward to you.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Melted fuse leg (not blown fuse!)

[Jay Summet via EV]

I ended up replacing it with a Bussman inline fuse holder and fuse  that I got 
from Napa. So far no problems. 
Jay Summet

On January 6, 2016 5:07:49 PM EST, Sean Korb <spk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>That exact thing happened to me on my ICE Pantera.  I wired the cooling
>fans with an Auto Zone inline 30A fuse and the Auto Zone relay that I
>used
>to trigger it blew in the closed position.  The constant load heated
>the
>plastic and burnt the fuse holder without blowing the fuse.
>
>Now I use a fuse in a Siemens block mounted on the bulkhead with a Bosh
>relay.  I figured I got what I paid for.
>
>sean
>
>On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Jay Summet via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 01/04/2016 09:59 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
>>
>>> Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anybody ever melted the plastic and holder of an Automotive ATC
>>>> fuse, without blowing the fuse itself? Impressively melted photos
>here:
>>>> http://www.summet.com/blog/2016/01/04/melted-fuse-leg/
>>>>
>>>
>>> Two possibilities occur to me:
>>>
>>> 1. Fuseholder not rated for the current. 30 amps is pretty high for
>a
>>> simple quick-connect type terminal. You normally don't use them
>above 15
>>> amps unless they are specially made for more, or have good cooling.
>>>
>>> There's a good reason that high-current fuseholders are made of
>>> bakelite, ceramic, or some other non-meltable non-combustible
>material.
>>> Low-current ones get made out of cheaper meltable plastics.
>>>
>>>
>> I believe the fuse holder and fuse came as a single package from
>Autozone,
>> so they SHOULD both be rated at the 30 amp fuse rate.but I agree
>it
>> doesn’t exactly look like an especially high quality/current
>fuse-holder.
>>
>> I've ordered a replacement that is slightly "beefer" looking but
>still out
>> of plastic. 8 GA wire and 40 amp fuse in a package with the holder.
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/391180385602
>>
>> (But I'll also be driving to AutoZone and/or Napa tomorrow to see
>what is
>> available locally)
>>
>>
>> 2. Fake fuse. Some outfits sell really cheap no-name fuses that are
>>> basically just any old piece of scrap metal in a fuseholder. Who
>knows
>>> at what current it will blow (or *if* it will blow at all).
>>>
>>>
>> It was an Autozone part...
>>
>> Jay
>>
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>>
>
>
>-- 
>Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
>'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
>#1382
>"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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[EVDL] Pack HV Fuse question

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have obtained a surplus fuse, new old stock.

Buss JKS 400

Bussman Limitron
Quick-Acting
Current-Limiting
FUSE
JKS 400

Class J Fuse

Interrupting Rating
200,000 amp. rms sym.
600v or less A.C.


I was wondering if it would be suitable to act as a mid-pack fuse on my 
128 VDC  LiIon Leaf Module pack?


I found the following documentation, but it may be for a newer version 
of the fuse:

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Resources/product-datasheets-b/Bus_Ele_DS_1027_JKS_70-600A.pdf

If I'm reading the graph right tt looks like the fuse would take  10 
seconds at 1000 amps to melt?


I already have a 400 amp fuse up front with the motor controller. (it's 
a Littelfuse L25S-400 )



People who know what "class J" and "quick-acting" vs "very fast-acting" 
care to comment?


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] Driving on Leaf modules! (S-10 EV Conversion)

[Jay Summet via EV]

If your battery boxes are a bit deeper than mine, and you can put the 
leaf modules in vertically you should be able to fit them.  However, if 
they are sized for 12 lead acid batteries, you may have difficulty 
getting all 48 leaf modules in.


I put all 48 leaf modules in the space that was formerly occupied by 16 
golf cart batteries, with a (little!) space left over.


I'll be posting my installation video in a few days, you'll probably 
want to watch it ;>


I had to cut the bottom ends of my "wood plates" down to 1/2" long 
(minimal air flow distance) to get them to fit, as well as cut off all 
the excess threaded rod, and there isn't much room on the "top" side 
with all the connections, so it's basically about minimal. You could get 
some more room by using thin steel instead of wood, but then would have 
to worry about conductivity ;>


If you built your own battery boxes and don't mind re-welding them, you 
should be able to easily get more modules in them if you make them fit 
the vertically size of the leaf modules (this also allows all 
connections to be on the top, which would have been much nicer!


Jay



On 12/29/2015 01:07 PM, nicklogan via EV wrote:

Jay,
Great work and having it well documented is very valuable. I am at
the end of life for my truck's 144V pack of 12V cart batteries and was not
planning on doing lead again. Using new CALB cells is more money than I want
to put into a conversion considering the options for used factory ev's. My
battery boxes are laid out similar to yours but I'm hoping to stay with a
144v pack so I'll have to check your CAD battery drawing to see if I can
squeeze in more. Would you consider the current end plate size to be the
minimum length and width? Congratulations on the first drive!

Regards,
John Nicholson
http://www.evalbum.com/2672


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Re: [EVDL] Bew Nissan Leaf...and...Level 2 charging

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/08/2016 12:36 PM, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:

On 01/07/2016 01:51 AM, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote:


I would like to hear what people are doing for L2 charging at home?


I'm using a JuiceBox Pro 40 (amp) box that costs $599  and comes with 
wifi networking and a web based console + phone app to control it and 
see what is happening.


It is rated at 9.6 kW, so more power than even the 6.6kW Leaf chargers need.

They also sell a non-networked "dumb" version for $499 if you don't need 
the time of use, monitoring, reporting (many EV's have that built in...)


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Melted fuse leg (not blown fuse!)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/04/2016 11:49 PM, Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV wrote:

Jay,

The other reason I believe why those fuse melted at 30Amps even
though they state like, is because in their original automotive application,
usually are under temporarly loads such power doorlocks , power windows,
cigar lighter, etc.

Marco Gaxiola




The constant load is likely a contributing factor, but I would expect 
they should also work for constant loads such as headlights, laptop 
adaptors in the 12 volt power port (cigar lighter socket) etc...


(It had worked for several years before failing.)

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Melted fuse leg (not blown fuse!)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/05/2016 12:41 AM, Roland wrote:

Hello Jay,
Use a Bussman Fustron or better a Bussman Limitron fuse.


I have those on the 128 volt (pack voltage) side of things.

I guess I could use one for the 12 volt (accessory voltage) side, but 
they take up a lot of extra space when compared to an automotive ATC 
fuse, and are harder to source locally.


Is it correct to assume that a 40 amp fuse rated for 240-600 volts will 
also work just fine at 12 volts? (but not the other way around)


Jay
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[EVDL] Driving on Leaf modules! (S-10 EV Conversion)

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have successfully driven my S-10 Electric Pickup conversion powered by 
48 modules from a salvaged Nissan Leaf battery pack. I have them wired 
in series, 16 sets of 3 parallel modules, providing 128 volts with 180Ah 
capacity (23 kWh).


It took me a full three days of work to make the swap and get the truck 
to a barely drivable condition. I have the cells hooked up with a 
warning buzzer on the BMS low voltage loop signal, but I do not yet have 
the charger fully connected. I anticipate another 8 hours of work to get 
the charger and pakTrakr system fully set up.


From a performance standpoint, the LiIon modules are much "stiffer" 
than the twenty 6V golf cart batteries they replaced, meaning that they 
do not suffer from as much of a voltage sag under high current draw. The 
lowest I was able to get the voltage to sag on the LiIon modules was 
down to 118 volts while accelerating up a very long steep hill at a 350+ 
Amp draw.


The ability to accelerate from 35 to 50 MPH up a long steep hill is much 
better subjective performance than I was able to get out of the truck 
when using golf cart batteries. It helps that the 500 lbs of Nissan leaf 
modules are replacing 1200 lbs of golf cart batteries, so the truck is 
700 lbs lighter now. This also improves the stopping distance. The 
handling is slightly lighter, but nothing is going to make an S-10 into 
a sports car.


Because I got a good deal on a wrecked leaf, and reduced my costs by 
parting out the rest of the car, the actual LiIon modules only cost me 
$1200 (less than a set of new golf cart batteries)! However, the overall 
upgrade cost me $4100 once I included the cost of a new charger and BMS 
system to support the LiIon batteries, plus all of the miscellaneous 
materials and tools I needed to build the batteries and cables. Not to 
mention the hundreds of hours of work.


If they last any more than the 2 years I've been averaging from the Lead 
Acid packs it will be well worth it.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Driving on Leaf modules! (S-10 EV Conversion)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 12/29/2015 02:40 AM, Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV wrote:

>Wow, only 10volts sag on a +41kw (+350amps times 118volts) of power, 
that is pretty amazing!!


Well, the pack is nominally 128 volts, but it was fully charged to 131.4 
volts when I started, so say 13-14 volts sag...but yes, I was impressed! 
 With a 180 Ah battery, 350 amps is only around a 2C rate, which should 
be well within their capabilities.





Forgive my ignorance: so each module is at 8volts? (16 in series, total 128V 
pack) (each Leaf module is 60ah correct?)
Each leaf module is approximately 60 Ah and contains 4 "cells" in total 
(2 series set of 2 parallel 30Ah physical cells), giving around 8 
volts (8.4 volts absolute max) per module.   I have 3 of these modules 
in parallel for a 180 Ah battery capacity. (And groups of 6 modules in a 
"battery" of which I have 8 installed.)






Which BMS and charger are you using?
MiniBMS on each cell with a Thunderstruck motors EVCC acting as the head 
unit (and charge controller for dual TSM2500 chargers).


http://minibms.mybigcommerce.com/
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/tsm2500-x2-and-charge-controller.html



Do you have a website or similar  where to see some pictures of your work? 
Congratulations..



Yes, although I haven't posted the final install pictures or videos yet. 
You can see the battery construction here to get an idea of what each of 
my 8 batteries looks like:


http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/10/31/how-to-build-a-16-volt-battery-module-from-six-nissan-leaf-cells/

Jay
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[EVDL] Selling Nissan Leaf battery module mounting plates (24 modules worth)

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have some leftover steel mounting plates that came out of a 2013 
Nissan Leaf battery.  There are 4 base plates and 4 top plates.


Each set of base/top plate will hold two "stacks" of Nissan leaf modules.

I have the long bolts that would allow you to make two plates of 4x 
modules (2 stacks of 2) and 2 plates of 8x modules (2 stacks of 4) (12 
long bolts and 12 short bolts). [But you could substitute your own bolts 
to make taller stacks...)


(Their were originally 2 base plates that held 4 stacks of modules, but 
I cut them in half to get 4 base plates that hold 2 stacks of modules each.)


So basically, this is a ready made mounting system for 24 modules (half 
of the pack).


The weight is 32 lbs (of steel) so shipping will cost some money.

I have no idea what it's worth to people, so I listed the asking price 
at $99, but I'm certainly willing to consider any offer.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/151898245624

Jay
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[EVDL] S-10 air dam, J1772 inlet behind flip up license plate

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've completed the (mechanical) portions of mounting a J1772 inlet, 15 
amp inlet, and control buttons/dials behind a flip up license plate for 
my S-10 conversion.



A writeup with pictures is located here:

http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/11/29/s-10-ev-new-j1772-and-120-volt-charging-inlets/


A 2 minute overview Video is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3zsZOSzxG0


In the process I found an online distributor (getallparts.com) that was 
apparently closing out their supply of an after-market smooth front air 
dam that replaces the stock one. (OE # 15658455, Partslink GM1092157) 
and bought mine for $9.42 (+ $18 S/H)so if you have an S-10 
conversion that may be of interest.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] S-10 air dam, J1772 inlet behind flip up license plate

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/30/2015 04:09 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/S-10-air-dam-J1772-inlet-behind-flip-up-license-plate-tp4678948
S-10 air dam, J1772 inlet behind flip up license plate
]

I think you did a great job.
Perhaps later you may want to add some protection to those bumper mounted
inlets.



The plastic air dam is mounted to the bottom of the front bumper, and is 
slightly sloped back under the vehicle. (But, the flip up license plate 
and inlets do stick out of the dam about 1 inch...)


I haven't finished mounting the dam back under the main bumper, but I 
expect that in any minor bump accident the plastic air dam will bend in 
slightly (it's only attached at the top, the bottom floats free) and 
then the bumper will stop whatever is pushing on it.  In any major 
accident I'll have more to worry about than my inlets ;>


Mostly, I'm counting on my relatively long history of not running into 
people/things to keep the front area of the truck safe...


After I do the final mounting I'll re-evaluate if I think it needs any 
extra bumpers/pads around it. I'm more worried that it will be so low to 
the ground that I'll have to bend down uncomfortably low to plug it in


Jay
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[EVDL] How I bought a Nissan Leaf 24 Kwh battery pack for $1344 (and lots of time)

[Jay Summet via EV]

I just sold the main body of my salvage Nissan leaf, so aside from a few 
small items I have listed on ebay, I have finished recovering costs by 
parting out the car after removing the battery.


My final out-of-pocket cost was ~ $28 per module or $1344 for the entire 
battery pack.


Details here:
http://www.summet.com/blog/2015/11/21/economies-of-harvesting-nissan-leaf-battery-modules/


Note however that I had to spend a lot of extra money to upgrade my 
charger, EVSE, buy 2/0 cable crimpers,  put the Leaf modules into 
"batteries" with busbars and  BMS modules, etc... so my total upgrade 
cost is going to be closer to  $4200 (not including a LOT of labor).


This is about 2x the price of just replacing the 20 lead acid golf cart 
batteries, so assuming I get 4-5 years of life from the lithium ion 
batteries it will make economic sense.  (Plus the added range, 
performance and lighter weight of the truck adds value)



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

The PFC chargers uses a 4 wire input which is RED Phase 1, Black Phase
2, White Neutral and Green ground.  All four wires are use for 250/125
volts.  The Black, White and Green is use for 125 volts.


Unfortunately, my chargers are dual voltage and only use 3 wires, L1/N, 
L2, and ground, so I cant separate the 2 phases of 240 from the 1 phase 
of 120 without active switching.



Just don't plug in the 20 amp 125 volt and 50 amp 250 volt receptacle at
the same time.


Well yes, *I* don't need any interlocks to know not to do thatbut I 
like to make it so that nobody else can do anything stupid when I'm not 
there




A optional connection for the 20 amp 125 volt circuit, is to mount a on
board circuit breaker chassis bars that accepts standard 20 amp breakers
between the 125 V receptacle and the charger.


That is the other option, have a manual switch or plug that I change 
over when opportunity charging...but I wanted to set it up so that I 
wouldn't have to open the hood and swap things around.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

Its use would also be an ice-head familiar inlet for them to understand and
use when the EV is under their care ("Yea, just keep it plugged-in to
protect the battery, while you wait for the parts to come in ... [keeps pack
from bricking] ).




Yes, that is exactly the type of thing that I'd like to 
support...opportunity charging and an easy way for a mechanic or friend 
who borrows the truck to keep it charged up without an EVSE.





The electrical-relay would do the same thing only use a circuit to sense
power has been applied to the j1772. If so, the L1 inlet would be (relay)
disconnected (so no one could get shocked from live power on the 5-15 inlet,
etc.).



My thought was to keep the L1 inlet disconnected by default (on the 
Normally Open relay contacts), and have the J1772 always connected (on 
the normally closed contacts). However, if you apply power to the L1, 
(attached to the relay coil) it would disconnect the J1772 via the relay 
activating and connect the L1 inlet to the charger.


No current sensing involved, just using the 120 volts AC on the L1 inlet 
to activate the relay.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/22/2015 01:06 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

tomw via EV wrote:

I did something similar to this, only using 240VAC rather than 120VAC.  I
have both NEMA 14-50  and J1772 power inputs to the charger.  I used this
DPST relay with 240VAC coil to switch between them:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/magnecraft-schneider-electric-w199apx15.html?p=29816731



This relay is a good choice for this application. One important feature
is that its normally-closed contacts have the same voltage-current
rating as the normally-open contacts. This is not true for many relays
(read the fine print!)



Good point, the relay I was considering was only rated at 30A for the NO 
contacts, and only 3A for the NC contacts! Back to digikey


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

Here is the specific circuit I have designed.

http://s9.postimg.org/ikp4miuhb/inlet_schematic.png

I would like any feedback on the above schematic. (Note that it only 
shows the 240 volt power from the J1227 and 120 volt power from the RV 
inlet, the Prox/Pilot lines from the J1227 are connected to the charger 
controller, and it handles enabling the EVSE.)


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

That would be more "elegant" and I have one of those, the Leaf OEM one, 
which costs $200-250 to replace if somebody steals it.
A $20 extension cord is a lot less likely to be stolen, as it doesn't 
look "valuable".


The relay and inlet and wires/connectors will cost me less than 
$50...and then I could sell my  J1772 portable charger for $200 profit.



The other option is to weld a piece a piece of steel with a hole in it 
to my truck frame and buy a padlock that would go around the portable 
J1772 inlet cable, but that wouldn't stop somebody from cutting the wire 
to steal copper, and it also wouldn’t allow me to sell the portable J1772.



Jay

On 11/21/2015 09:05 PM, Haritech (Gmail) wrote:

Any reason not to just use a J1772 portable charger?

Lawrence


On Nov 21, 2015, at 13:57, Jay Summet via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

Here is the specific circuit I have designed.

http://s9.postimg.org/ikp4miuhb/inlet_schematic.png

I would like any feedback on the above schematic. (Note that it only shows the 
240 volt power from the J1227 and 120 volt power from the RV inlet, the 
Prox/Pilot lines from the J1227 are connected to the charger controller, and it 
handles enabling the EVSE.)

Thanks,
Jay
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[EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

I'm upgrading my charger, and the new charge controller supports j1772 
signalling (and I have it working with a j1772 inlet).


But, it also supports 4 user selectable profiles via a rotary switch, so 
I could program one of the profiles to NOT use j1772 signalling and 
assume the input is 120 volts and 12 amps.


This would allow me to use a standard 15 amp RV shore power inlet also 
connected to the chargers with a $20 extension cord, instead of a $250 
external EVSE cordset that would be expensive to replace if stolen.



Obviously, having a 120v 15A MALE PLUGS RV inlet "energized" at 240 
volts while using the J1772 side of things isn't a good idea (even if it 
does have a small rubber door / plug that goes over it.)


I invite comments on my options for wiring this up:

Option A: Physical interlock. Have a sliding metal door such that only 
the 120v 15A RV inlet, OR the J1772 is visible at a single point in 
time.  (Simple, but may be harder to set up, as I was going to put my 
inlets in the front bumper area behind a flip down license plate holder.)


Option B: Electronic "interlock" consisting of a 120 volt coil relay 
that can switch 240 volts set up so that the common is connected to the 
chargers, the RV inlet is connected to the "NO"  side and the coil, and 
the J1772 is connected to the "NC" side.


By default the J1772 is connected to the chargers, but if you plug 120 
volts AC into the RV inlet, the relay switches the chargers over to the 
120 volt side, disconnecting the J1772 inlet as a bonus.


Here is a link to the part I'm considering (the chargers use 18 amps at 
240 volts, and would be limited to 12 amps at 120 volts, so 30A should 
be well rated...

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/T92S11A22-120/PB597-ND/678230

I'm leaning towards the "electronic interlock" because I feel that using 
a relay to join all the wires from the two inlets and charger will 
actually simplify my wiring, and be easier than making a sliding door, 
but I'd like any comments you may have about potential issues I haven't 
seen.


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Pack HV Fuse question

[Jay Summet via EV]

I am mostly worried that the fuse might be too "big" (or slow) for the 
application and not blow quickly enough.

On January 7, 2016 11:47:28 PM EST, Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
>> If the fuse doesn't list a DC rating then don't use it with DC.
>
>That's good advice if you're buying something new, or selling products 
>that have to meet specs.
>
>However, in many cases the only difference between a fuse with AC only 
>and AC/DC ratings is that they didn't test it on DC because the
>intended 
>customer didn't ask for it.
>
>If you ask the fuse's manufacturer, they often *will* have DC test
>data; 
>but didn't bother to include it in their UL listing because it would 
>have cost extra to have UL verify it.
>
>As a rule, an AC rated fuse can safely be used on DC at 1/4th of its AC
>
>voltage rating. So in Jay Summet's case, his 600vac fuse is OK at
>150vdc.
>
>> On 1/7/2016 8:50 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>>> I have obtained a surplus fuse, new old stock.
>>>
>>> Buss JKS 400
>>>
>>> Bussman Limitron
>>> Quick-Acting
>>> Current-Limiting
>>> FUSE
>>> JKS 400
>>>
>>> Class J Fuse
>>>
>>> Interrupting Rating
>>> 200,000 amp. rms sym.
>>> 600v or less A.C.
>
>
>-- 
>Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does
>your thinking. -- anonymous
>--
>Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Nominal votage J1772 DC charging

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/11/2016 08:00 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

It also appears that EMW has now UL-certified its products,
seeing that they are awarded contracts under CPUC's DRAM with all 3
investor-owned utilities:
http://emotorwerks.com/component/content/article/89-emotorwerks/emotorwe
rks-company/media-and-public-relations/media-coverage/248-review-5?Itemi
d=1007


I own and use a Juicebox, and read that at one point they were trying 
for UL certification, but it is not yet listed on their product webpage.


I would expect that if they went to the trouble to get UL certified they 
would waste little time adding that certification to the product page of 
the website. Currently it only says:


• CE, NEMA, and SAE compliant


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] How to find the true state of a Leaf battery pack.

[Jay Summet via EV]

I recommend buying an entire wrecked car from an auto insurance auction. 
 That way you know why it's being sold (car wrecked, not due to 
problems with the battery).


In many cases, if you can get the 12 volt system to power up you can 
plug in a bluetooth OBDII interface and use LeafSpy to talk directly 
with the battery BMS.


Then, you just have to find somebody to buy the rest of the car (in 
pieces if you want to put in the time and effort of parting it out, or 
whole if you don't.)


Worked well for me.

Jay

On 01/10/2016 03:53 PM, Cruisin via EV wrote:

The main thing to be concerned about when buying used junk batteries, is that
a lot of them could have been from crash tests or factory rejects which have
the batteries shorted by Nissan engineers. As a result of the shorting the
batteries are worthless. I have had many customers send me battery packs
from different junkies to disassemble for them, they lost a lot of money as
a result. The junkie isn't going to refund. Reversal on your credit card
wont work unless you have had it shipped back, then you are on the "no sell"
list that junkies subscribe to. You get what you pay for. I also notice all
of the people on the forums asking about buying the Leaf or Volt batteries
are the same ones who used to post how good the CALBs were. What happened,
did the CALB's die?

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/How-to-find-the-true-state-of-a-Leaf-battery-pack-tp4679608p4679613.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] 12v tales

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 06/06/2016 03:04 PM, Jan Minnie via EV wrote:


I'm new to this and your discussion has me totally confused. What is
the verdict? Sep 12v Battery for accessories or not??



You should use a 12 v battery as well as a DC/DC converter or alternator 
to keep it charged. The 12 volt battery will provide redundancy and 
power things like emergency flashers, horns, etc even if the DC/DC 
converter fails. It also allows your DC/DC converter to be sized to the 
average load, instead of the maximum surge load on your 12 volt system.


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[Jay Summet via EV]

Phew! That's a full days work! At least that cart put it up at a nice 
working height so you didn't have to stoop over all day


Jay

On 05/29/2016 03:18 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Today I bought a 2011 Leaf battery pack and completely dis-assembled it,
to take it home in my Prius,
the shell was too wide to fit in the car.
Also I was by myself and had no help lifting, each module is over 8 lbs
and there are 48 in a pack
so about 400 lbs in cells alone, besides the compression plates,
contactors, service disconnect,
bus bars and hundreds of bolts. And of course the steel shell halves.
So, I disassembled the pack in the parking lot of the recycler and took
several pics of the process.
You can enjoy them here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33178064@N05/

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Re: [EVDL] ISO Custom Lithium Pack info

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 06/22/2016 09:28 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:


Personally, at this point, I would go with the Leaf pack.  There have
been some people on the list who have been doing that lately.


I did that with my S-10 Conversion, and am very happy with the 
performance and final result.


You will need to replace your charger, add a BMS, and reconfigure the 
leaf modules into a 3 parallel / 16 series layout as well as physically 
fit them into your current battery bays.


You can read all about it on my blog:
https://www.summet.com/blog/tag/leaf/

(Posts are in reverse chronological order, so you might want to hit 
"Older Posts" a few times and start here:



https://www.summet.com/blog/2015/03/26/how-to-purchase-a-leaf-battery-pack-and-surrounding-car/


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] Sizzling and steaming cooked (RIP) flooded battery ...

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have luckily never steamed/cooked a golf cart battery, but in the two 
packs of golf cart batteries I have had, there was always one battery 
that failed "first".


I have a (now no longer available for purchase) PakTrakr system that 
reports on the voltage level of each battery, and this was very helpful 
in knowing when a battery was not performing "up to snuff" w.r.t. the 
rest of the pack.


This would typically exhibit as  one battery being at  a significantly 
lower voltage than the others, especially when under load. (for example, 
one battery would sag to 4.9 volts, while all the others were at 5.5 
volts). This battery would have lower capacity than the rest of the pack.


The overall pack voltage would look just slightly lower than normal, but 
I imagine that if I were to keep driving the pack the lowest battery 
would eventually reverse, get sizzled, etc...


If only for this, I think having a per-battery voltage level monitor can 
be useful. A Lee Hart style middle of pack imbalance monitoring system 
could also give an indication that something like this was going on, but 
wouldn't necessarily identify the specific battery.


The "bad" battery would also typically be 0.1 volt lower than the "good" 
ones after charging, but that difference was not as big an effect as the 
voltage sag under load (which is difficult to measure with a multimeter 
while driving ;>)


On the first pack, I purchased a (brand new) golf cart battery and used 
it to keep the rest of the pack going for another six months. On my 
second pack, I had two spares from the first pack that I was using in a 
large UPS, and I swapped one of those in to keep things going for a 
little longer.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Pack HV Fuse question

[Jay Summet via EV]

For anybody searching later:

I ended up buying a Shawmut A25X400, 400A fuse which is a direct
substitute for the Littelfuse L25S-400 by the controller.

I also purchased a pair of Littelfuse LSCR001 400A 1000V Fuse Holders to 
mount it.


Jay

On 01/07/2016 08:50 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:

I have obtained a surplus fuse, new old stock.

Buss JKS 400

Bussman Limitron
Quick-Acting
Current-Limiting
FUSE
JKS 400

Class J Fuse

Interrupting Rating
200,000 amp. rms sym.
600v or less A.C.


I was wondering if it would be suitable to act as a mid-pack fuse on my
128 VDC  LiIon Leaf Module pack?

I found the following documentation, but it may be for a newer version
of the fuse:
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Resources/product-datasheets-b/Bus_Ele_DS_1027_JKS_70-600A.pdf


If I'm reading the graph right tt looks like the fuse would take  10
seconds at 1000 amps to melt?

I already have a 400 amp fuse up front with the motor controller. (it's
a Littelfuse L25S-400 )


People who know what "class J" and "quick-acting" vs "very fast-acting"
care to comment?

Jay

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf donor car? Re: Books on converting a car to ev?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/13/2016 04:01 PM, via EV wrote:


BTW, the target price for the finished car is $150,000 (recommended by the 
business advisors). No money to be made building these and selling them for 
less than that. If this doesn't work I'll still have a nice and unique EV 
sports car for a fraction of what a comparable car would cost and I'll just 
keep my day job.


Unless your EV supercar can outperform a dual motor Tesla S, I don't see 
you selling many of them at the $150,000 price point.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Jay Summet via EV]

With the introduction of multiple good options in the retail market 
(leaf volt, bolt soon, bmw, tesla and other minor players) I agree that 
buying a new or used EV is a much better value proposition than 
converting a car.


The only places where I can see a conversion having value are:

1. To get a type/class of electric vehicle that you can't (easily) 
purchase (such as a truck, bus, etc) [However, some electric 
trucks/buses are being manufactured semi-commercially in low volumes now.


2. To convert a classic/collectors car to EV.

3. If you can buy a conversion used conversion and get a significant 
discount on the cost of the parts.


4. If you just want a cool project to do. (not cost effective, but fun!)


Unfortunately, I haven't seen any "modern" books that give you step by 
step information. There is a lot of stuff out on the Internet of people 
doing various parts themselves and sharing a lot of good information, 
but you kind of have to put it together yourself.


Jay

On 01/13/2016 08:39 AM, Thos True via EV wrote:

Yes I tend to agree that buying a used Leaf is a great solution for most of
us (I did the 3 year lease), it is also a great experience to build your
own project. I have been part of several of these as well over the past 2
decades. I have always liked the prospects of truck conversions. Mostly
because they are more useful, but also because they are already designed
for additional weight. I also think that conversions have that added "cool
factor" when combined with a classic vehicle. (Wouldn't you agree Al?)

-Tom

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:23 AM, via EV  wrote:


Bobby,  Some how I didn't send the photo?

- Original Message -

From: "Bobby Keeland via EV" 
To: "ev" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:40:12 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
vehicle to EV?

Bob Keeland
Forest Dynamics
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