Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 6/2/2012 1:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jun 2012, at 20:18, meekerdb wrote: On 6/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You might be disturbed by the fact that in experience 2, the "original" remains the same person, so we don't count him as a new person, each time he steps in the box.

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On Jun 2, 2:39 am, Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > I think that Matter-Energy and Sense-Motive are dual aspects of the > > same thing. If you are talking about the brain only, then you are > > talking about matter and energy, but no person exists

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 01 Jun 2012, at 20:18, meekerdb wrote: On 6/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You might be disturbed by the fact that in experience 2, the "original" remains the same person, so we don't count him as a new person, each time he steps in the box. This, in my opinion, illustrates agai

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > On May 31, 2:33 am, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > > > On May 29, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > > So which of the following four link(s) in the logical chain do you > take > >

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 6/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You might be disturbed by the fact that in experience 2, the "original" remains the same person, so we don't count him as a new person, each time he steps in the box. This, in my opinion, illustrates again that we have to use RSSA instead of ASSA. Sup

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 01 Jun 2012, at 19:09, meekerdb wrote: On 6/1/2012 7:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 21:38, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal w

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 6/1/2012 7:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 21:38, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@u

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 31 May 2012, at 21:38, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 5:15 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 2:22 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > To know what an interface is... how 2 programs communicate. The way you > > > talk is like "hey dude it's in the OS !"... like the operating system was >

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 2:22 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > To know what an interface is... how 2 programs communicate. The way you > > talk is like "hey dude it's in the OS !"... like the operating system was > > not a software... > > No, I'm saying it's all software, except for

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 2:29 pm, "Stephen P. King" wrote: > >      It seems that we might be glossing over the difference between > hardware and software... > Hi Stephen, Yes, that seems to be the case a lot. I guess it can be confusing, but I'm not sure why. If a cat can pee on it, then it's hardware. Cra

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 2:22 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > To know what an interface is... how 2 programs communicate. The way you > talk is like "hey dude it's in the OS !"... like the operating system was > not a software... No, I'm saying it's all software, except for the hardware. That has been my point f

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 5/31/2012 12:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 2

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 31 May 2012, at 18:56, meekerdb wrote: On 5/31/2012 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think there are many tricks the brain employs against itself to aid the selfish propagation of its genes. One example is the concept of the ego (having an identity). Agreed. As I said just above. S

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a price co

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 5/31/2012 12:10 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 31, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: Craig, You mentioned that you can open a remote desktop connection from a virtualized computer to a real computer (or even the one running the virtualization). This, as Quentin mentioned, requires an interface

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 1:58 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > 2012/

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 1:58 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quen

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > > > >

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that yo

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 2:33 am, Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On May 29, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > So which of the following four link(s) in the logical chain do you take > > > issue with? > > > > A. human brain (and body) comprises matter and ene

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 5/31/2012 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think there are many tricks the brain employs against itself to aid the selfish propagation of its genes. One example is the concept of the ego (having an identity). Agreed. As I said just above. So having an identity, a unity of thoughts, depends

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a >> price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportatio

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you are > > > > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Ch

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you are > > > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Church-Turing > > > > Matrix, why would the

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 31, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > Craig, > > You mentioned that you can open a remote desktop connection from a > virtualized computer to a real computer (or even the one running the > virtualization). > > This, as Quentin mentioned, requires an interface.  In this case it is > provided by

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 31 May 2012, at 08:02, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 16:32, Jason Resch wrote: The question I have in mind is "Does a brain produce consciousness, or does the brain filter consciousness? I had some thoughts on th

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > On May 29, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > > > So which of the following four link(s) in the logical chain do you take > > issue with? > > > > A. human brain (and body) comprises matter and energy > > So does a cadaver's brain and body. The f

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

om:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: >> everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason Resch >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 29 May 2012 3:45 PM >> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Church Turing be dammed. >> >> >> Natural

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you are > > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Church-Turing > > > Matrix, why would there be any kind of arbitrary level separation? The > > >

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

Craig, You mentioned that you can open a remote desktop connection from a virtualized computer to a real computer (or even the one running the virtualization). This, as Quentin mentioned, requires an interface. In this case it is provided by the virtual network card made available to the virtual

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 30, 6:13 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >> No, you can. I can log into the root level on a hardware node - pick a > >> virtual machine on that node and log into it, open up a remote desktop > > So for you a remote desktop is not an interface... "remote" is a magic > mushroom ? It's not an

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you are > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Church-Turing > > Matrix, why would there be any kind of arbitrary level separation? The > > whole point is that there is no funda

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/31 Quentin Anciaux > > > 2012/5/30 Craig Weinberg > >> On May 30, 4:36 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> > 2012/5/30 Craig Weinberg >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On May 29, 3:02 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> > >> > > > You always put that level confusion on the table.

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/30 Craig Weinberg > On May 30, 4:36 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/5/30 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 29, 3:02 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > > You always put that level confusion on the table. You could expect to > > > have > > > > dinner in

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 30, 4:36 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/5/30 Craig Weinberg > > > > > > > > > > > On May 29, 3:02 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > You always put that level confusion on the table. You could expect to > > have > > > dinner in a virtual paris if you were in a virtual world. If you wan

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/30 Craig Weinberg > On May 29, 3:02 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > You always put that level confusion on the table. You could expect to > have > > dinner in a virtual paris if you were in a virtual world. If you want an > > computational AI to interact with you, it must be able to cont

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 29, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > So which of the following four link(s) in the logical chain do you take > issue with? > > A. human brain (and body) comprises matter and energy So does a cadaver's brain and body. The fact that a cadaver is not intelligent should show us that the differen

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On May 29, 3:02 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > You always put that level confusion on the table. You could expect to have > dinner in a virtual paris if you were in a virtual world. If you want an > computational AI to interact with you, it must be able to control real > world appendices that permi

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 30 May 2012, at 18:16, meekerdb wrote: On 5/30/2012 1:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 22:41, meekerdb wrote: On 5/29/2012 1:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Som

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 5/30/2012 1:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 22:41, meekerdb wrote: On 5/29/2012 1:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a price

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 29 May 2012, at 22:41, meekerdb wrote: On 5/29/2012 1:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportation. But his state law forb

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportation. But his state law forbid annihilation of human. So he made a t

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 5/29/2012 4:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportation. But his state law forbid annihilat

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 5/29/2012 1:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportation. But his state law forbid annihilation

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > To see this the following thought experience can help. Some guy won a > price consisting in visiting Mars by teleportation. But his state law > forbid annihilation of human. So he made a teleportation to Mars without > annihilation. The v

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

ist@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Church Turing be dammed. Natural physics is a computation. Fine. But a computed natural physics model is NOT the natural physicsit is the natural physics of a computer. Colin, I recently read the following excerpt from "The Singularity is Near" on pag

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

PM > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Church Turing be dammed. > > > Natural physics is a computation. Fine. > > But a computed natural physics model is NOT the natural physicsit is > the natural physics of a computer. > > > > Colin, > >

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 29 May 2012, at 09:49, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/29 Quentin Anciaux 2012/5/29 Colin Geoffrey Hales Here's a story I just wrote. I'll get it published in due course. Just posted it to the FoR list, thought you might appreciate the sentiments =

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/29 Quentin Anciaux > > > 2012/5/29 Colin Geoffrey Hales > >> Here's a story I just wrote. I'll get it published in due course. >> Just posted it to the FoR list, thought you might appreciate the >> sentiments >> >> >> It's 100,0

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 29 May 2012, at 09:02, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jason Resch Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2012 3:45 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Church Turing be dammed. On Tue, May 29

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/29 Colin Geoffrey Hales > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: > everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason Resch > *Sent:* Tuesday, 29 May 2012 3:45 PM > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Subject:*

RE: Church Turing be dammed.

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Resch Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2012 3:45 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Church Turing be dammed. On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales mailto:cgha

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012/5/29 Colin Geoffrey Hales > Here's a story I just wrote. I'll get it published in due course. > Just posted it to the FoR list, thought you might appreciate the > sentiments > > > It's 100,000 BCE. You are a politically correct cav

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On 5/28/2012 10:21 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: This belief system is truly bizarre. It is exactly like the cave person drawing a picture of a flame on a rock and then expecting it to cook dinner. It is exactly like getting into a flight simulator, flying it to Paris and then expecting to g

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales < cgha...@unimelb.edu.au> wrote: > Here's a story I just wrote. I'll get it published in due course. > Just posted it to the FoR list, thought you might appreciate the > sentiments > > ==