[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

. 
Creating Heaven on Earth ..

 The Transcendental Meditation program, bringing the experience of 
Transcendental Consciousness, pure consciousness, nourishes all areas of life 
and purifies human awareness, rendering life worthy of reaching the altar of 
God—one's own God—through one's own religion.
Here is the key to living life in accordance with the will of God—, Natural 
Law—, and enjoying Heaven on Earth.'—  -Maharishi
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Text, 

 copied from a published 1993 color calendar produced by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, 
original in the collection of the State of Iowa archives. 

 

 "Since time immemorial the creation of Heaven on Earth has been the highest 
aspiration of religions. All religions teach, however, that if Heaven is to be 
created on earth, it can happen only by having enough individuals whose 
consciousness is fully developed; that is, individuals whose consciousness is 
so expanded that it becomes one with the supreme intelligence of nature which 
permeates the whole universe and upholds all of creation.
 

 Heaven on Earth will be a living expression of pure knowledge and it's 
infinite organizing power. It will brilliantly display Nature's functioning 
bringing supreme fulfillment to life.
 

 With reference to CULTURE, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by cultural 
integrity in which every nation will blossom in the richness of its natural 
cultural dignity. Life will be lived spontaneously in accord with the natural 
law of the land. No culture will overshadow any other culture. The whole world 
family will be a beautiful mosaic of different cultures. With the full 
blossoming of culture on earth, civilization will be perfect. Heaven on Earth 
will be characterized by a perfect civilization.
 

 With Heaven on Earth, every nation will spontaneously radiate a nourishing 
influence to neighboring nations, and the whole family of nations will 
naturally enjoy harmony and real freedom.
 

 With Heaven on Earth, INVINCIBILITY will be the national characteristic of 
every nation, victory before war will be enjoyed by every nation.
 

 With reference to DEFENSE, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by victory 
before war -in the lack of the need to prepare for defense- because everything 
and everyone will be on the path of evolution, and as a result, coherence in 
every country will be so strong that invincibility will be a natural feature of 
national life. No negativity will arise and no enemy will be born for any 
nation.
 

 Heaven on Earth on the COLLECTIVE level will be characterized by indomitable 
positivity, harmony, and peace on all levels of collective life -family, 
community, nation, and the world. Heaven on Earth will also be characterized by 
perfection in all areas of the life of the individual and society.
 

 Heaven on Earth on the INDIVIDUAL level will be characterized by perfect 
health, long life in bliss, the ability to effortlessly fulfill one's desires, 
and live always in a beautiful, ever fresh, and nourishing environment.
 

 Considering all the innumerable values of life and living, Heaven on Earth 
will be characterized by all good everywhere and non-good nowhere – beautiful 
sunshine of the Age of Enlightenment for everyone always and everywhere.
 

 With reference to LIVING, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by 
self-sufficiency in the ability to know anything, do anything, and accomplish 
anything.
 

 With reference to LIFE, Heaven on Earth is characterized by perfection, 
complete balance and integration. Fulfillment will prevail on all levels of 
life and living -spiritual, intellectual, physical, material, environment, and 
cosmic.
 

 Heaven on Earth may be defined as the supreme quality of life everywhere in 
this beautiful world when weakness and suffering is not found anywhere, and 
everyone in the world enjoys real freedom in bliss and fulfillment. This Heaven 
on Earth is now going to be real for everyone and every nation.
 

 Heaven on Earth has been the most laudable aspiration of the wise throughout 
the ages. Creation of Heaven on Earth is the most desirable project in the 
entire history of the human race. Everyone can now enjoy Heaven on Earth 
through perfect alliance with Natural Law, through the enlivenment of the total 
potential of Natural Law in one's own consciousness."
 

 . 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

The Transcendental Meditation program, bringing the experience of 
Transcendental Consciousness, pure consciousness, nourishes all areas of life 
and purifies human awareness, rendering life worthy of reaching the altar of 
God—one's own God—through one's own religion.
Here is the key to living life in accordance with the will of God—, Natural 
Law—, and enjoying Heaven on Earth.'—  -Maharishi
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Text, copied from a published 1993 color calendar produced by Maharishi Mahesh 
Yogi, original in the collection of the State of Iowa archives. 

 

 "Since time immemorial the creation of Heaven on Earth has been the highest 
aspiration of religions. All religions teach, however, that if Heaven is to be 
created on earth, it can happen only by having enough individuals whose 
consciousness is fully developed; that is, individuals whose consciousness is 
so expanded that it becomes one with the supreme intelligence of nature which 
permeates the whole universe and upholds all of creation.
 

 Heaven on Earth will be a living expression of pure knowledge and it's 
infinite organizing power. It will brilliantly display Nature's functioning 
bringing supreme fulfillment to life.
 

 With reference to CULTURE, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by cultural 
integrity in which every nation will blossom in the richness of its natural 
cultural dignity. Life will be lived spontaneously in accord with the natural 
law of the land. No culture will overshadow any other culture. The whole world 
family will be a beautiful mosaic of different cultures. With the full 
blossoming of culture on earth, civilization will be perfect. Heaven on Earth 
will be characterized by a perfect civilization.
 

 With Heaven on Earth, every nation will spontaneously radiate a nourishing 
influence to neighboring nations, and the whole family of nations will 
naturally enjoy harmony and real freedom.
 

 With Heaven on Earth, INVINCIBILITY will be the national characteristic of 
every nation, victory before war will be enjoyed by every nation.
 

 With reference to DEFENSE, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by victory 
before war -in the lack of the need to prepare for defense- because everything 
and everyone will be on the path of evolution, and as a result, coherence in 
every country will be so strong that invincibility will be a natural feature of 
national life. No negativity will arise and no enemy will be born for any 
nation.
 

 Heaven on Earth on the COLLECTIVE level will be characterized by indomitable 
positivity, harmony, and peace on all levels of collective life -family, 
community, nation, and the world. Heaven on Earth will also be characterized by 
perfection in all areas of the life of the individual and society.
 

 Heaven on Earth on the INDIVIDUAL level will be characterized by perfect 
health, long life in bliss, the ability to effortlessly fulfill one's desires, 
and live always in a beautiful, ever fresh, and nourishing environment.
 

 Considering all the innumerable values of life and living, Heaven on Earth 
will be characterized by all good everywhere and non-good nowhere – beautiful 
sunshine of the Age of Enlightenment for everyone always and everywhere.
 

 With reference to LIVING, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by 
self-sufficiency in the ability to know anything, do anything, and accomplish 
anything.
 

 With reference to LIFE, Heaven on Earth is characterized by perfection, 
complete balance and integration. Fulfillment will prevail on all levels of 
life and living -spiritual, intellectual, physical, material, environment, and 
cosmic.
 

 Heaven on Earth may be defined as the supreme quality of life everywhere in 
this beautiful world when weakness and suffering is not found anywhere, and 
everyone in the world enjoys real freedom in bliss and fulfillment. This Heaven 
on Earth is now going to be real for everyone and every nation.
 

 Heaven on Earth has been the most laudable aspiration of the wise throughout 
the ages. Creation of Heaven on Earth is the most desirable project in the 
entire history of the human race. Everyone can now enjoy Heaven on Earth 
through perfect alliance with Natural Law, through the enlivenment of the total 
potential of Natural Law in one's own consciousness."
 

 . 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Humankind

[Share Long]

But Buck, the soil is so polluted now that probably all it's good for is to 
grow a gasoline additive!


On Thursday, May 1, 2014 8:57 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 
dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
  
And then the accelerating problem; the
aggregating farm monopolies bull-dozing farmsteads that once housed
livestock. .. Bull-dozing of the mixed farms, farms consolidated and dozed
down,  just to get a few more acres to grow more gasohol for cars.


Yesterday I drove by a farm north of
Fairfield, Iowa a ways out on the Pleasant Plain road where they were
taking down  a farm's field fence, out with dozers rolling up rods of
good field fence just to be able to plow up to the road edge and
plant more gasohol.  Livestock gone.

We are witnessing the end of an epoch.
With the demise and succession of the WWII generation farmer of 360
acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and 1080acre farms to
3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many humans being
much close at all to any animal husbandry with large mammals anymore.
You can see this now compared even  to five and ten years ago at
the County level and State Fairs.   There are not nearly any animal
projects now with the end of mixed agricultural family farming and the collapse 
of those farmsteads out on the landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing
gasohol and corporate animal feeding.  It is really quite stunning to
see the collapse of diversified agriculture in such a short period of
time.


Care-taking large animals has always
been an important practical and spiritual schooling in humanity, a laboratory 
cultivating in skill sets towards being a good human being.  It just
does not work well with animals unless you are a good person.  Taking
care of animals is always an exercise in humanity.  Any effective
leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically was once a
care-taker of large animals, a  sheep or goat herder child, herdsmen
with cows, bullocks,  horses, elephants. Just using a buggy horse to
drive the long district court circuit like an Abraham Lincoln.  With
equines, like a Grant, Churchill, Marshall, Pershing, Patton, Truman,
Eisenhower, Reagan each.


...practiced at being good at  being a
good human being in skill sets taking care of animals in nature.
That has mostly come to and end.
Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in the relationship of
humans with large nature.  Now great leadership is only incubated and
left to come out of what?  Internet and social media forums,  social -science, 
law and
business schools, and some on-the-job or interning experience.  May
the Unified Field Transcendent help us.


I hope always that city people will
support small farming and people who raise livestock on their own
independent of the corporations.  The opening of America to small farms and the 
opportunity
for ownership was always what made America what it was.  In the last
few years with this aggregation taking place in large corporate
agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended.  May the Unified 
Field
Transcendent God save the country,
-Buck


Authfriend writes:
Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)





A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows



http://www.universalfields.org/index.html

Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Humankind

[dhamiltony2k5]

And then the accelerating problem; the aggregating farm monopolies bull-dozing 
farmsteads that once housed livestock. .. Bull-dozing of the mixed farms, farms 
consolidated and dozed down, just to get a few more acres to grow more gasohol 
for cars.
 
 Yesterday I drove by a farm north of Fairfield, Iowa a ways out on the 
Pleasant Plain road where they were taking down a farm's field fence, out with 
dozers rolling up rods of good field fence just to be able to plow up to the 
road edge and plant more gasohol. Livestock gone.
 

 We are witnessing the end of an epoch. With the demise and succession of the 
WWII generation farmer of 360 acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and 
1080acre farms to 3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many 
humans being much close at all to any animal husbandry with large mammals 
anymore. You can see this now compared even to five and ten years ago at the 
County level and State Fairs. There are not nearly any animal projects now with 
the end of mixed agricultural family farming and the collapse of those 
farmsteads out on the landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing gasohol 
and corporate animal feeding. It is really quite stunning to see the collapse 
of diversified agriculture in such a short period of time.
 
 Care-taking large animals has always been an important practical and spiritual 
schooling in humanity, a laboratory cultivating in skill sets towards being a 
good human being. It just does not work well with animals unless you are a good 
person. Taking care of animals is always an exercise in humanity. Any effective 
leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically was once a care-taker 
of large animals, a sheep or goat herder child, herdsmen with cows, bullocks, 
horses, elephants. Just using a buggy horse to drive the long district court 
circuit like an Abraham Lincoln. With equines, like a Grant, Churchill, 
Marshall, Pershing, Patton, Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan each.
 
 ...practiced at being good at being a good human being in skill sets taking 
care of animals in nature.
 That has mostly come to and end. Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in 
the relationship of humans with large nature. Now great leadership is only 
incubated and left to come out of what? Internet and social media forums, 
social -science, law and business schools, and some on-the-job or interning 
experience. May the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
 
 I hope always that city people will support small farming and people who raise 
livestock on their own independent of the corporations. The opening of America 
to small farms and the opportunity for ownership was always what made America 
what it was. In the last few years with this aggregation taking place in large 
corporate agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. May the 
Unified Field Transcendent God save the country,
 -Buck
 

 

 Authfriend writes:
 Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)
 

 

 

 

 A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows 

 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html 
http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 

 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[dhamiltony2k5]

Yesterday I drove by a farm north of Fairfield, Iowa a ways out on the Pleasant 
Plain road where they were taking down a farm's field fence, out with dozers 
rolling up rods of good field fence just to be able to plow up to the road edge 
and plant more gasohol. Livestock gone.
 

 We are witnessing the end of an epoch. With the demise and succession of the 
WWII generation farmer of 360 acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and 
1080acre farms to 3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many 
humans being much close at all to any animal husbandry with large mammals 
anymore. You can see this now compared even to five and ten years ago at the 
County level and State Fairs. There are not nearly any animal projects now with 
the end of mixed agricultural family farming and the collapse of those 
farmsteads out on the landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing gasohol 
and corporate animal feeding. It is really quite stunning to see the collapse 
of diversified agriculture in such a short period of time.
 
 Care-taking large animals has always been an important practical and spiritual 
schooling in humanity, a laboratory cultivating in skill sets towards being a 
good human being. It just does not work well with animals unless you are a good 
person. Taking care of animals is always an exercise in humanity. Any effective 
leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically was once a care-taker 
of large animals, a sheep or goat herder child, herdsmen with cows, bullocks, 
horses, elephants. Just using a buggy horse to drive the long district court 
circuit like an Abraham Lincoln. With equines, like a Grant, Churchill, 
Marshall, Pershing, Patton, Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan each.
 
 ...practiced at being good at being a good human being in skill sets taking 
care of animals in nature.
 That has mostly come to and end. Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in 
the relationship of humans with large nature. Now great leadership is only 
incubated and left to come out of what? Internet and social media forums, 
social -science, law and business schools, and some on-the-job or interning 
experience. May the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
 
 I hope always that city people will support small farming and people who raise 
livestock on their own independent of the corporations. The opening of America 
to small farms and the opportunity for ownership was always what made America 
what it was. In the last few years with this aggregation taking place in large 
corporate agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. May the 
Unified Field Transcendent God save the country,
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 

 Authfriend writes:
 Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)
 

 

 

 

 A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows 

 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html 
http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 

 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Mike Dixon]

Well... at least they aren't running the streets and being hit by cars then 
neglected. However, the TMO did neglect the Jersey steers they bought to graze 
the land at the Capitol in Navasota. One steer gouged the eye of another while 
feeding and no veterinarian was ever called to treat the wound. The three 
steers wondered off the property due to poor(cheap) fencing, damaged a 
neighbor's property and was claimed by the neighbor in compensation, I'm sure 
to end up in their freezer. I had begged the managers *not* to buy the calves 
or any other animals to graze the land because I feared something of this 
nature would happen, I knew the fencing would be inadequate to keep them on the 
property but I feared them getting on to a road and causing a major accident, 
opening the TMO to a wrongful death lawsuit. But nooo, they would be so 
cute and useful and would only cost a few dollars and if something bad happens 
to them... well, it's just their karma and
 *we* shouldn't interfere.
On Monday, April 28, 2014 6:00 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 
dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:
  
  
Yesterday I drove by a farm north of Fairfield, Iowa a ways out on the Pleasant 
Plain road where they were
taking down  a farm's field fence, out with dozers rolling up rods of
good field fence just to be able to plow up to the road edge and
plant more gasohol.  Livestock gone.

We are witnessing the end of an epoch.
With the demise and succession of the WWII generation farmer of 360
acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and 1080acre farms to
3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many humans being
much close at all to any animal husbandry with large mammals anymore.
You can see this now compared even  to five and ten years ago at
the County level and State Fairs.   There are not nearly any animal
projects now with the end of mixed agricultural family farming and the collapse 
of those farmsteads out on the landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing
gasohol and corporate animal feeding.  It is really quite stunning to
see the collapse of diversified agriculture in such a short period of
time.


Care-taking large animals has always
been an important practical and spiritual schooling in humanity, a laboratory 
cultivating in skill sets towards being a good human being.  It just
does not work well with animals unless you are a good person.  Taking
care of animals is always an exercise in humanity.  Any effective
leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically was once a
care-taker of large animals, a  sheep or goat herder child, herdsmen
with cows, bullocks,  horses, elephants. Just using a buggy horse to
drive the long district court circuit like an Abraham Lincoln.  With
equines, like a Grant, Churchill, Marshall, Pershing, Patton, Truman,
Eisenhower, Reagan each.


...practiced at being good at  being a
good human being in skill sets taking care of animals in nature.
That has mostly come to and end.
Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in the relationship of
humans with large nature.  Now great leadership is only incubated and
left to come out of what?  Internet and social media forums,  social -science, 
law and
business schools, and some on-the-job or interning experience.  May
the Unified Field Transcendent help us.


I hope always that city people will
support small farming and people who raise livestock on their own
independent of the corporations.  The opening of America to small farms and the 
opportunity
for ownership was always what made America what it was.  In the last
few years with this aggregation taking place in large corporate
agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended.  May the Unified 
Field
Transcendent God save the country,
-Buck in the Dome


Authfriend writes:
Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)





A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows



http://www.universalfields.org/index.html

Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!
  
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Michael Jackson]

was that Navasota Texas?

On Mon, 4/28/14, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, April 28, 2014, 1:39 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Well... at least they
 aren't running the streets and being hit by cars then
 neglected. However, the TMO did neglect the
 Jersey steers they bought to graze the land at the Capitol
 in Navasota. One steer
 gouged the eye of another while feeding and no veterinarian
 was ever called to treat the wound. The three steers
 wondered off the property due to poor(cheap) fencing,
 damaged a neighbor's property and was claimed by the
 neighbor in compensation,
 I'm sure to end up in their freezer. I had begged
 the managers *not* to buy the calves or any other animals to
 graze the land because I feared something of this nature
  would happen, I knew the fencing would be inadequate
 to keep them on the property but I feared them getting on to
 a road and causing a major accident, opening the TMO to a wrongful death
 lawsuit. But nooo, they would be
 so cute and useful and would only cost a few dollars and if
 something bad happens to them... well, it's just their
 karma and *we* shouldn't interfere. On Monday, April 28,
 2014 6:00 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com
 dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
   
  
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Yesterday I drove
 by a farm north of
 Fairfield, Iowa a ways
 out on the Pleasant Plain road where they were
 taking down  a farm's field fence, out with dozers rolling up rods
 of
 good field fence just to be able to plow up to the road edge
 and
 plant more gasohol.  Livestock gone.
 We are witnessing the end of an
 epoch.
 With the demise and succession of the WWII generation farmer
 of 360
 acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and 1080acre
 farms to
 3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many
 humans being
 much close at all to any animal husbandry with large mammals
 anymore.
 You can see this now compared even  to five and ten years
 ago at
 the County level and State Fairs.   There are not nearly any
 animal
 projects now with the end of mixed agricultural family
 farming and the collapse of those farmsteads out on the
 landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing
 gasohol and corporate animal feeding.  It is really quite
 stunning to
 see the collapse of diversified agriculture in such a short
 period of
 time.
 Care-taking
 large animals has always
 been an important practical and spiritual schooling in
 humanity, a laboratory cultivating in skill sets towards
 being a good human being.  It just
 does not work well with animals unless you are a good
 person.  Taking
 care of animals is always an exercise in humanity.  Any
 effective
 leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically
 was once a
 care-taker of large animals, a  sheep or goat herder child,
 herdsmen
 with cows, bullocks,  horses, elephants. Just using a buggy
 horse to
 drive the long district court circuit like an Abraham
 Lincoln.  With
 equines, like a Grant, Churchill, Marshall, Pershing,
 Patton, Truman,
 Eisenhower, Reagan each.
 ...practiced
 at being good at  being a
 good human being in skill sets taking care of animals in
 nature.That has mostly come to and end.
 Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in the relationship
 of
 humans with large nature.  Now great leadership is only
 incubated and
 left to come out of what?  Internet and social media forums,
  social -science, law and
 business schools, and some on-the-job or interning
 experience.  May
 the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
 I
 hope always that city people will
 support small farming and people who raise livestock on
 their own
 independent of the corporations.  The opening of America to
 small farms and the opportunity
 for ownership was always what made America what it was.  In
 the last
 few years with this aggregation taking place in large
 corporate
 agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. 
 May the Unified Field
 Transcendent God save the country,-Buck in the
 Dome
 
 Authfriend
 writes:Those sure are some gorgeous
 Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking
 Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly
 monsters. (Not the Holsteins' fault; they were bred that
 way to give as much milk as possible. But it isn't
 anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)
 
 
 
 A beautiful key
 to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper
 treatment of the cows
 
 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   

 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 #yiv8295305987 #yiv8295305987 --
   #yiv8295305987ygrp-mkp {
 border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
 0;padding:0 10px;}
 
 #yiv8295305987 #yiv8295305987ygrp-mkp hr

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Mike Dixon]

You betcha! 
On Monday, April 28, 2014 6:58 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com wrote:
  
  
was that Navasota Texas?

On Mon, 4/28/14, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote:

Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 28, 2014, 1:39 PM


 









Well... at least they
aren't running the streets and being hit by cars then
neglected. However, the TMO did neglect the
Jersey steers they bought to graze the land at the Capitol
in Navasota. One steer
gouged the eye of another while feeding and no veterinarian
was ever called to treat the wound. The three steers
wondered off the property due to poor(cheap) fencing,
damaged a neighbor's property and was claimed by the
neighbor in compensation,
I'm sure to end up in their freezer. I had begged
the managers *not* to buy the calves or any other animals to
graze the land because I feared something of this nature
would happen, I knew the fencing would be inadequate
to keep them on the property but I feared them getting on to
a road and causing a major accident, opening the TMO to a wrongful death
lawsuit. But nooo, they would be
so cute and useful and would only cost a few dollars and if
something bad happens to them... well, it's just their
karma and *we* shouldn't interfere. On Monday, April 28,
2014 6:00 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com
dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:



 









Yesterday I drove
by a farm north of
Fairfield, Iowa a ways
out on the Pleasant Plain road where they were
taking down  a farm's field fence, out with dozers rolling up rods
of
good field fence just to be able to plow up to the road edge
and
plant more gasohol.  Livestock gone.
We are witnessing the end of an
epoch.
With the demise and succession of the WWII generation farmer
of 360
acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and 1080acre
farms to
3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many
humans being
much close at all to any animal husbandry with large mammals
anymore.
You can see this now compared even  to five and ten years
ago at
the County level and State Fairs.   There are not nearly any
animal
projects now with the end of mixed agricultural family
farming and the collapse of those farmsteads out on the
landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing
gasohol and corporate animal feeding.  It is really quite
stunning to
see the collapse of diversified agriculture in such a short
period of
time.
Care-taking
large animals has always
been an important practical and spiritual schooling in
humanity, a laboratory cultivating in skill sets towards
being a good human being.  It just
does not work well with animals unless you are a good
person.  Taking
care of animals is always an exercise in humanity.  Any
effective
leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically
was once a
care-taker of large animals, a  sheep or goat herder child,
herdsmen
with cows, bullocks,  horses, elephants. Just using a buggy
horse to
drive the long district court circuit like an Abraham
Lincoln.  With
equines, like a Grant, Churchill, Marshall, Pershing,
Patton, Truman,
Eisenhower, Reagan each.
...practiced
at being good at  being a
good human being in skill sets taking care of animals in
nature.That has mostly come to and end.
Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in the relationship
of
humans with large nature.  Now great leadership is only
incubated and
left to come out of what?  Internet and social media forums,
social -science, law and
business schools, and some on-the-job or interning
experience.  May
the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
I
hope always that city people will
support small farming and people who raise livestock on
their own
independent of the corporations.  The opening of America to
small farms and the opportunity
for ownership was always what made America what it was.  In
the last
few years with this aggregation taking place in large
corporate
agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. 
May the Unified Field
Transcendent God save the country,-Buck in the
Dome

Authfriend
writes:Those sure are some gorgeous
Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly
monsters. (Not the Holsteins' fault; they were bred that
way to give as much milk as possible. But it isn't
anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)



A beautiful key
to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper
treatment of the cows

http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!






















#yiv8295305987 #yiv8295305987 --
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0

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Michael Jackson]

Wonder if there is still a Capitol there?

On Mon, 4/28/14, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, April 28, 2014, 2:05 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   You betcha!  On Monday, April 28,
 2014 6:58 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   was that Navasota Texas?
 
 
 
 On Mon, 4/28/14, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all
 Mankind
 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
  Date: Monday, April 28, 2014, 1:39 PM
 
  
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
  
 
  
 

 
  
 
  
 
  
 

 

 
Well... at least they
 
  aren't running the streets and being hit by cars
 then
 
  neglected. However, the TMO did neglect the
 
  Jersey steers they bought to graze the land at the
 Capitol
 
  in Navasota. One steer
 
  gouged the eye of another while feeding and no
 veterinarian
 
  was ever called to treat the wound. The three steers
 
  wondered off the property due to poor(cheap) fencing,
 
  damaged a neighbor's property and was claimed by the
 
  neighbor in compensation,
 
  I'm sure to end up in their freezer. I had
 begged
 
  the managers *not* to buy the calves or any other animals
 to
 
  graze the land because I feared something of this nature
 
   would happen, I knew the fencing would be inadequate
 
  to keep them on the property but I feared them getting on
 to
 
  a road and causing a major accident, opening the TMO to a
 wrongful death
 
  lawsuit. But nooo, they would be
 
  so cute and useful and would only cost a few dollars and
 if
 
  something bad happens to them... well, it's just
 their
 
  karma and *we* shouldn't interfere. On Monday,
 April 28,
 
  2014 6:00 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com
 
  dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
  
 

 
   
 
   
 
  
 
  
 
  
 

 
  
 
  
 
  
 

 

 
Yesterday I drove
 
  by a farm north of
 
  Fairfield, Iowa a ways
 
  out on the Pleasant Plain road where they were
 
  taking down  a farm's field fence, out with dozers
 rolling up rods
 
  of
 
  good field fence just to be able to plow up to the road
 edge
 
  and
 
  plant more gasohol.  Livestock gone.
 
  We are witnessing the end of an
 
  epoch.
 
  With the demise and succession of the WWII generation
 farmer
 
  of 360
 
  acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and
 1080acre
 
  farms to
 
  3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many
 
  humans being
 
  much close at all to any animal husbandry with large
 mammals
 
  anymore.
 
  You can see this now compared even  to five and ten
 years
 
  ago at
 
  the County level and State Fairs.   There are not nearly
 any
 
  animal
 
  projects now with the end of mixed agricultural family
 
  farming and the collapse of those farmsteads out on the
 
  landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing
 
  gasohol and corporate animal feeding.  It is really
 quite
 
  stunning to
 
  see the collapse of diversified agriculture in such a
 short
 
  period of
 
  time.
 
  Care-taking
 
  large animals has always
 
  been an important practical and spiritual schooling in
 
  humanity, a laboratory cultivating in skill sets towards
 
  being a good human being.  It just
 
  does not work well with animals unless you are a good
 
  person.  Taking
 
  care of animals is always an exercise in humanity.  Any
 
  effective
 
  leader of humanity in history it seems
 characteristically
 
  was once a
 
  care-taker of large animals, a  sheep or goat herder
 child,
 
  herdsmen
 
  with cows, bullocks,  horses, elephants. Just using a
 buggy
 
  horse to
 
  drive the long district court circuit like an Abraham
 
  Lincoln.  With
 
  equines, like a Grant, Churchill, Marshall, Pershing,
 
  Patton, Truman,
 
  Eisenhower, Reagan each.
 
  ...practiced
 
  at being good at  being a
 
  good human being in skill sets taking care of animals in
 
  nature.That has mostly come to and end.
 
  Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in the
 relationship
 
  of
 
  humans with large nature.  Now great leadership is only
 
  incubated and
 
  left to come out of what?  Internet and social media
 forums,
 
   social -science, law and
 
  business schools, and some on-the-job or interning
 
  experience.  May
 
  the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
 
  I
 
  hope always that city people will
 
  support small farming and people who raise livestock on
 
  their own
 
  independent of the corporations.  The opening of America
 to
 
  small farms and the opportunity
 
  for ownership was always what made America what it was. 
 In
 
  the last
 
  few years with this aggregation taking place

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[TurquoiseBee]

From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind
 


  
Wonder if there is still a Capitol there?

There were so many Capitols. Who  would notice one more, or less?  :-)

Never just a center or a facility. It always had to be a Capitol, often 
of an imaginary country that never existed. Can you say megalomania? I think 
you can. :-)

I'm sorry...after a weekend of fun and frolic to celebrate King's Day here in 
the Netherlands, I find myself mightily amused at the pompous-assed pretension 
of Maharishi and the TM movement. At least here in the Netherlands we actually 
*have* a king, and a real one, not one who had to pay for his crown by trading 
in a million dollars and his mind.  I wonder how long it'll be before we can 
pick one of them up in a pawn shop for five bucks.  :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind
 
 
   Wonder if there is still a Capitol there?







There were so many Capitols. Who  would notice one more, or less?  :-)

Never just a center or a facility. It always had to be a Capitol, often 
of an imaginary country that never existed. Can you say megalomania? I think 
you can. :-)

I'm sorry...after a weekend of fun and frolic to celebrate King's Day here in 
the Netherlands, I find myself mightily amused at the pompous-assed pretension 
of Maharishi and the TM movement. At least here in the Netherlands we actually 
*have* a king, and a real one, not one who had to pay for his crown by trading 
in a million dollars and his mind.  I wonder how long it'll be before we can 
pick one of them up in a pawn shop for five bucks.  :-)
 

 Ha, ha. Real Kings don't exist, Bawwy. They are the product of hundreds of 
years of inbreeding and oppression of the masses. Your Dutch King is hardly 
worthy of three days of fun and frolic - what does this entail? Perhaps 
prostrating oneself in all seriousness before his portrait while slugging down 
a few pints of Dutch swill.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[awoelflebater]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind
 
 
   Wonder if there is still a Capitol there?







There were so many Capitols. Who  would notice one more, or less?  :-)

Never just a center or a facility. It always had to be a Capitol, often 
of an imaginary country that never existed. Can you say megalomania? I think 
you can. :-)

I'm sorry...after a weekend of fun and frolic to celebrate King's Day here in 
the Netherlands, I find myself mightily amused at the pompous-assed pretension 
of Maharishi and the TM movement. At least here in the Netherlands we actually 
*have* a king, and a real one, not one who had to pay for his crown by trading 
in a million dollars and his mind.  I wonder how long it'll be before we can 
pick one of them up in a pawn shop for five bucks.  :-)
 

 Ha, ha. Real Kings don't exist, Bawwy. They are the product of hundreds of 
years of inbreeding and oppression of the masses. Your Dutch King is hardly 
worthy of three days of fun and frolic - what does this entail? Perhaps 
prostrating oneself in all seriousness before his portrait while slugging down 
a few pints of Dutch swill.

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Mike Dixon]

Nope! The Capitol of the Age of Enlightenment in Navasota Texas burned to the 
ground about three years ago. Just a pile of ashes were left on slabs. However, 
the new Peace Palaces, next to it, were untouched. They were never finished and 
I think the property has been sold. If anyone is suspicious  of another fire 
bringing down a Capitol, it was due to a forest fire that consumed thousands of 
acres. Nature supports! No doubt they got more from insurance than had they 
demolished it and sold it for scrap, which they were considering at one time.
On Monday, April 28, 2014 8:19 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote:
  
  
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind
  


  
Wonder if there is still a Capitol there?

There were so many Capitols. Who  would notice one more, or less?  :-)

Never just a center or a facility. It always had to be a Capitol, often 
of an imaginary country that never existed. Can you say megalomania? I think 
you can. :-)

I'm sorry...after a weekend of fun and frolic to celebrate King's Day here in 
the Netherlands, I find myself mightily amused at the pompous-assed pretension 
of Maharishi and the TM movement. At least here in the Netherlands we actually 
*have* a king, and a real one, not one who had to pay for his crown by trading 
in a million dollars and his mind.  I wonder how long it'll be before we can 
pick one of them up in a pawn shop for five bucks.  :-)





 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/28/2014 8:55 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 was that Navasota Texas?
 
That's the home town of Manse Lipscomb, the legendary blues musician. 
But, I think you're talking about Charleston, SC and his name was John 
C. Calhoun. Go figure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mance_Lipscomb


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Calhoun

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/28/2014 10:06 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 Wonder if there is still a Capitol there?
 
Navasota is the Blues Capitol of Texas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navasota,_Texas

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[Richard J. Williams]

On 4/28/2014 10:19 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
At least here in the Netherlands we actually *have* a king, and a real 
one, not one who had to pay for his crown by trading in a million 
dollars and his mind.  I wonder how long it'll be before we can pick 
one of them up in a pawn shop for five bucks.  :-)


If I were you, I'd keep my U.S. Passport up to date as a back-up plan. 
Go figure.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[authfriend]

Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.) 

 

 

 

 A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows 

 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html 
http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 

 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[dhamiltony2k5]

I hope always that city people will support small farming and people who raise 
livestock on their own independent of the corporations. The opening of America 
to small farms and the opportunity for ownership was always what made America 
what it was. In the last few years with this aggregation taking place in large 
corporate agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. May the 
Unified Field Transcendent God save the country, 
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 

 Authfriend writes:
 Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)
 

 

 

 

 A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows 

 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html 
http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 

 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[dhamiltony2k5]

...practiced at being good at being a good human being in skill sets taking 
care of animals in nature. 
 That has mostly come to and end. Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in 
the relationship of humans with large nature. Now great leadership is only 
incubated and left to come out of what? Internet and social media forums, 
social -science and business schools, and some on-the-job or interning 
experience. May the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
 
 I hope always that city people will support small farming and people who raise 
livestock on their own independent of the corporations. The opening of America 
to small farms and the opportunity for ownership was always what made America 
what it was. In the last few years with this aggregation taking place in large 
corporate agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. May the 
Unified Field Transcendent God save the country,
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 

 Authfriend writes:
 Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)
 

 

 

 

 A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows 

 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html 
http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 

 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[dhamiltony2k5]

Care-taking large animals has always been an important practical and spiritual 
schooling in humanity, a laboratory cultivating in skill sets towards being a 
good human being. It just does not work well with animals unless you are a good 
person. Taking care of animals is always an exercise in humanity. Any effective 
leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically was once a care-taker 
of large animals, a sheep or goat herder child, herdsmen with cows, bullocks, 
horses, elephants. Just using a buggy horse to drive the long district court 
circuit like an Abraham Lincoln. With equines, like a Grant, Churchill, 
Marshall, Pershing, Patton, Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan each.
 
 ...practiced at being good at being a good human being in skill sets taking 
care of animals in nature.
 That has mostly come to and end. Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in 
the relationship of humans with large nature. Now great leadership is only 
incubated and left to come out of what? Internet and social media forums, 
social -science, law and business schools, and some on-the-job or interning 
experience. May the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
 
 I hope always that city people will support small farming and people who raise 
livestock on their own independent of the corporations. The opening of America 
to small farms and the opportunity for ownership was always what made America 
what it was. In the last few years with this aggregation taking place in large 
corporate agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. May the 
Unified Field Transcendent God save the country,
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 

 Authfriend writes:
 Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)
 

 

 

 

 A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows 

 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html 
http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 

 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for all Mankind

[dhamiltony2k5]

We are witnessing the end of an epoch. With the demise and succession of the 
WWII generation farmer of 360 acre farms and the consolidation to 720acres and 
1080acre farms to 3, 4, 7,16,000 acre holdings comes the end of very many 
humans being much close at all to any animal husbandry with large mammals 
anymore. You can see this now compared even to five and ten years ago at the 
County level and State Fairs. There are not nearly any animal projects now with 
the end of mixed agricultural family farming and those farmsteads out on the 
landscape. Farm operation is all going to growing gasohol and corporate animal 
feeding. It is really quite stunning to see the collapse of diversified 
agriculture in such a short period of time.
 
 Care-taking large animals has always been an important practical and spiritual 
schooling in humanity, a laboratory cultivating in skill sets towards being a 
good human being. It just does not work well with animals unless you are a good 
person. Taking care of animals is always an exercise in humanity. Any effective 
leader of humanity in history it seems characteristically was once a care-taker 
of large animals, a sheep or goat herder child, herdsmen with cows, bullocks, 
horses, elephants. Just using a buggy horse to drive the long district court 
circuit like an Abraham Lincoln. With equines, like a Grant, Churchill, 
Marshall, Pershing, Patton, Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan each.
 
 ...practiced at being good at being a good human being in skill sets taking 
care of animals in nature.
 That has mostly come to and end. Inside of 50 years this is a huge change in 
the relationship of humans with large nature. Now great leadership is only 
incubated and left to come out of what? Internet and social media forums, 
social -science, law and business schools, and some on-the-job or interning 
experience. May the Unified Field Transcendent help us.
 
 I hope always that city people will support small farming and people who raise 
livestock on their own independent of the corporations. The opening of America 
to small farms and the opportunity for ownership was always what made America 
what it was. In the last few years with this aggregation taking place in large 
corporate agriculture and land-holding consolidation that has ended. May the 
Unified Field Transcendent God save the country,
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 

 Authfriend writes:
 Those sure are some gorgeous Jerseys they've got. They make the huge hulking 
Holsteins that supply supermarket milk look like ungainly monsters. (Not the 
Holsteins' fault; they were bred that way to give as much milk as possible. But 
it isn't anywhere as good as milk from Jerseys.)
 

 

 

 

 A beautiful key to creating Heaven on Earth for all mankind, the proper 
treatment of the cows 

 http://www.universalfields.org/index.html 
http://www.universalfields.org/index.html
 

 Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Maharishi-ji!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven and Earth

[wgm4u]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote:

 by Corrado Giaquinto, Italy:
 http://www.museumsyndicate.com/item.php?item=21571


Manly P Hall on the polarity of *Heaven and Earth*.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-6aQ2qCTuI

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck  wrote:

 
  
  Heaven
 on
Earth
   
   The Transcendental Meditation program, bringing the experience of 
   Transcendental Consciousness, pure consciousness, nourishes all areas of 
   life and purifies human awareness, rendering life worthy of reaching the 
   altar of God—one's own God—through one's own religion.
   Here is the key to living life in accordance with the will of God—Natural 
   Law—and enjoying Heaven on Earth.'—Maharishi
   

Since time immemorial the creation of Heaven on Earth has been the 
highest aspiration of religions. All religions teach, however, that if 
Heaven is to be created on earth, it can happen only by having enough 
individuals whose consciousness is fully developed; that is, 
individuals whose consciousness is so expanded that it becomes one with 
the supreme intelligence of nature which permeates the whole universe 
and upholds all of creation.

 
 Heaven on Earth will be a living expression of pure knowledge and 
 it's infinite organizing power.  It will brilliantly display Nature's 
 functioning bringing supreme fulfillment to life.
 
  
  With reference to CULTURE, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by 
  cultural integrity in which every nation will blossom in the 
  richness of its natural cultural dignity.  Life will be lived 
  spontaneously in accord with the natural law of the land.  No 
  culture will overshadow any other culture.  The whole world family 
  will be a beautiful mosaic of different cultures.  With the full 
  blossoming of culture on earth, civilization will be perfect.  
  Heaven on Earth will be characterized by a perfect civilization.
   
   With Heaven on Earth, every nation will spontaneously radiate a 
   nourishing influence to neighboring nations, and the whole family 
   of nations will naturally enjoy harmony and real freedom.  

With Heaven on Earth, INVINCIBILITY will be the national 
characteristic of every nation, victory before war will be 
enjoyed by every nation. 
 
 With reference to DEFENSE, Heaven on Earth will be 
 characterized by victory before war -in the lack of the need 
 to prepare for defense- because everything and everyone will 
 be on the path of evolution, and as a result, coherence in 
 every country will be so strong that invincibility will be a 
 natural feature of national life.  No negativity will arise 
 and no enemy will be born for any nation.
  
  Heaven on Earth on the COLLECTIVE level will be 
  characterized by indomitable positivity, harmony, and peace 
  on all levels of collective life -family, community, 
  nation, and the world.  Heaven on Earth will also be 
  characterized by perfection in all areas of the life of the 
  individual and society.
   
   Heaven on Earth on the INDIVIDUAL level will be 
   characterized by perfect health, long life in bliss, the 
   ability to effortlessly fulfill one's desires, and live 
   always in a beautiful, ever fresh, and nourishing 
   environment. 

Considering all the innumerable values of life and 
living, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by all 
good everywhere and non-good nowhere – beautiful 
sunshine of the Age of Enlightenment for everyone 
always and everywhere.
 
 With reference to LIVING, Heaven on Earth will be 
 characterized by self-sufficiency in the ability to 
 know anything, do anything, and accomplish anything.
  
   With reference to LIFE, Heaven on Earth is 
  characterized by perfection, complete balance and 
  integration.  Fulfillment will prevail on all 
  levels of life and living -spiritual, intellectual, 
  physical, material, environment, and cosmic.
   
   Heaven on Earth may be defined as the supreme 
   quality of life everywhere in this beautiful 
   world when weakness and suffering is not found 
   anywhere, and everyone in the world enjoys real 
   freedom in bliss and fulfillment.  This Heaven on 
   Earth is now going to be real for everyone and 
   every nation.
   
Heaven on Earth has been the most laudable 
aspiration of the wise throughout the ages.  
Creation of Heaven on Earth is the most 
desirable project in the entire history of the 
human race.  Everyone can now enjoy Heaven on 
Earth through perfect alliance with Natural 
Law, through the 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth

[Buck]

 
 Heaven
on
  
  The Transcendental Meditation program, bringing the experience of 
  Transcendental Consciousness, pure consciousness, nourishes all areas of 
  life and purifies human awareness, rendering life worthy of reaching the 
  altar of God—one's own God—through one's own religion.
  Here is the key to living life in accordance with the will of God—Natural 
  Law—and enjoying Heaven on Earth.'—Maharishi
  
   
   Since time immemorial the creation of Heaven on Earth has been the 
   highest aspiration of religions. All religions teach, however, that if 
   Heaven is to be created on earth, it can happen only by having enough 
   individuals whose consciousness is fully developed; that is, individuals 
   whose consciousness is so expanded that it becomes one with the supreme 
   intelligence of nature which permeates the whole universe and upholds all 
   of creation.
   

Heaven on Earth will be a living expression of pure knowledge and it's 
infinite organizing power.  It will brilliantly display Nature's 
functioning bringing supreme fulfillment to life.

 
 With reference to CULTURE, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by 
 cultural integrity in which every nation will blossom in the richness 
 of its natural cultural dignity.  Life will be lived spontaneously in 
 accord with the natural law of the land.  No culture will overshadow 
 any other culture.  The whole world family will be a beautiful mosaic 
 of different cultures.  With the full blossoming of culture on earth, 
 civilization will be perfect.  Heaven on Earth will be characterized 
 by a perfect civilization.
  
  With Heaven on Earth, every nation will spontaneously radiate a 
  nourishing influence to neighboring nations, and the whole family 
  of nations will naturally enjoy harmony and real freedom.  
   
   With Heaven on Earth, INVINCIBILITY will be the national 
   characteristic of every nation, victory before war will be 
   enjoyed by every nation. 

With reference to DEFENSE, Heaven on Earth will be 
characterized by victory before war -in the lack of the need to 
prepare for defense- because everything and everyone will be on 
the path of evolution, and as a result, coherence in every 
country will be so strong that invincibility will be a natural 
feature of national life.  No negativity will arise and no 
enemy will be born for any nation.
 
 Heaven on Earth on the COLLECTIVE level will be characterized 
 by indomitable positivity, harmony, and peace on all levels 
 of collective life -family, community, nation, and the world. 
  Heaven on Earth will also be characterized by perfection in 
 all areas of the life of the individual and society.
  
  Heaven on Earth on the INDIVIDUAL level will be 
  characterized by perfect health, long life in bliss, the 
  ability to effortlessly fulfill one's desires, and live 
  always in a beautiful, ever fresh, and nourishing 
  environment. 
   
   Considering all the innumerable values of life and 
   living, Heaven on Earth will be characterized by all good 
   everywhere and non-good nowhere – beautiful sunshine of 
   the Age of Enlightenment for everyone always and 
   everywhere.

With reference to LIVING, Heaven on Earth will be 
characterized by self-sufficiency in the ability to 
know anything, do anything, and accomplish anything.
 
  With reference to LIFE, Heaven on Earth is 
 characterized by perfection, complete balance and 
 integration.  Fulfillment will prevail on all levels 
 of life and living -spiritual, intellectual, 
 physical, material, environment, and cosmic.
  
  Heaven on Earth may be defined as the supreme 
  quality of life everywhere in this beautiful world 
  when weakness and suffering is not found anywhere, 
  and everyone in the world enjoys real freedom in 
  bliss and fulfillment.  This Heaven on Earth is now 
  going to be real for everyone and every nation.
  
   Heaven on Earth has been the most laudable 
   aspiration of the wise throughout the ages.  
   Creation of Heaven on Earth is the most desirable 
   project in the entire history of the human race.  
   Everyone can now enjoy Heaven on Earth through 
   perfect alliance with Natural Law, through the 
   enlivenment of the total potential of Natural Law 
   in one's own consciousness.
  
 

   
  
 

   
   

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote:

 
re-certification which in my opinion was one of the sleazier moves M ever 
made - 

Always touching when someone from outside the Movement has the best interest of 
the TM-teachers at heart !
Anyway, the re-certification had to important effects; getting rid of dead-wood 
not doing anything useful anymore, and making sure white trash rednecks could 
never enter the Movement again. 
As such the new structure proved very successful.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  
 re-certification which in my opinion was one of the sleazier moves M ever 
 made - 
 
 Always touching when someone from outside the Movement has the best interest 
 of the TM-teachers at heart !
 Anyway, the re-certification had to important effects; getting rid of 
 dead-wood not doing anything useful anymore, and making sure white trash 
 rednecks could never enter the Movement again. 
 As such the new structure proved very successful.


Oh, and Happy New Year ! :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote:

 Are you kidding? The schism has already taken place - there are former TM 
 teachers all over the place who either teach their own brand of meditation or 
 teach TM without the Movement and its re-certification which in my opinion 
 was one of the sleazier moves M ever made - making tried and true teachers 
 pay to get re-certified. I mean, Jerry Jarvis needs to get re-certified? 
 March-y must-a needed to get one of his nephews a new gold Bently for his 
 birthday.

Well that is true, but I was talking about what would be considered a rival 
organisation. Like the Reformation. But your point is taken. Robin's group was 
essentially a splinter group, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar might be considered a 
splinter group, but he does not seem to be teaching TM but a breathing 
technique, he just went off on his own thing.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  
 re-certification which in my opinion was one of the sleazier moves M ever 
 made - 
 
 Always touching when someone from outside the Movement has the best interest 
 of the TM-teachers at heart !
 Anyway, the re-certification had to important effects; getting rid of 
 dead-wood not doing anything useful anymore, and making sure white trash 
 rednecks could never enter the Movement again. 
 As such the new structure proved very successful.

Who were these white trash rednecks? Did these type of people have a tendency 
to want to become TM teachers? What makes you think types like these would 
never enter the Movement again due to the re-certification process? What was 
it about the process that ensured this? What makes MJ someone outside of the 
Movement when he was clearly very much inside the Movement for decades? Or is 
someone not part of the Movement who is not a teacher? That would certainly 
disqualify a lot of students and meditators. Or did your response just signify 
a knee jerk, but baseless, short diatribe containing nothing but unfounded 
reaction? These are not rhetorical questions Nab. I want to know what you mean 
here.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

Feste37,  My main bitch is that the promise was that we'd all get to be 
psychologically healthy, wise, deep, good, righteous, just, positive, 
supportive etc. etc.  Jerry Seinfeld started off already accomplished -- he 
simply cannot be used as an example.  

I personally, if anything, after 30 years, was more cranky, more frustrated, 
less inclined to patience, mired in blaming, socially ungainly, as narcissistic 
as always, and on and on, my list of things I want to get out of my 
personality NEVER CHANGED.  No lines drawn through any of the items on my 
to-do list.

Flat out I tell you I know NO ONE who changed from TM in any way that life 
happening wouldn't account for.  

TM was sold to us on the basis of fulfilling desires in daily life.  That's how 
we were taught to sell TM.  

Then, my life crumbled in a perfect storm of THREE major disasters 
simultaneously, and it was obvious that TM had not prepared me for the 
scenario. Not. In. The. Least.  From then on, I could not deny that I had not 
gained anything from TM except maybe I could get to a state of lesser 
excitation quicker than non-meditators.   

I quit TM within a year of that.  

But, it could be argued that TM got me far enough, such that my fervor for 
realization was strengthened enough such that my intellect could profit from my 
studies of Advaita.  Like that.  Who knows?

But, me, I took it personally.  I blamed Maharishi and Girish for being frauds 
who took a pretty good technique and promised everything -- step right up and 
see the hoochy choochy girls for one dollar you spiritual hicks from the 
sticks. 

Of all the people I taught TM, less than 10% were still doing it a year later 
-- the results, if any, are not obvious to the massesor to psychometrics. 

Emperor's new clothes and all that. 

Edg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote:

 Just a quick reaction to this: just because people stop doing something 
 doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work or isn't doing them good. Exercise 
 is a good example. How many people start exercise programs and discontinue 
 them, even though they know it is good for them? With TM, you do have to make 
 the time for it, and not everyone is willing to do that on a long-term basis. 
 Also, the TM critics here seem to accept the idea that many long-term 
 meditators are ineffective in life (as you put it). I'm not convinced of that 
 at all. Recently Jerry Seinfeld was on ABC talking about his 40-year TM 
 practice. Thousands of other very successful people are long-term TMers, and 
 this association between ineffectiveness and long-term TM seems to me 
 decidedly unproven and most probably untrue. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process 
  of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have 
  tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so 
  many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses 
  or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do.
  
  I appreciate your posting these words.
  
  I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you 
  think of this part:
  
  
  One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
  of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress
  whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
  discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some
  meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and 
  no
  unfoldment of true spiritual values. 
  Haven't you ever
  wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, 
  especially
  the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical
  repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not 
  opening
  it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of
  disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same
  feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is
  because they are disconnected from their hearts.
  
  What do you think about this?
  
  
  
  
  
   From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
   
  
    
  What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? 
  
  Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
  
  And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 
  44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
  technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? 
   If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
  leaders of a movement that is offering

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

Mjackson740,

I think any intent is devolving, but if one is going to insist on being 
one, (an individuality) then bhakti is probably a safe way to spend your 
identity dollar.  Ramana Maharshi says that the mantra must be accompanied by 
the devotional substrate-dynamic, so I'm going to go with that opinion, but 
note that Ramana rejects all techniques as secondary compared to direct 
realization of the Self.  

To ask Who am I? instantly dissolves the ego to insignificance when it simply 
cannot be found!  This method tricks the mind by giving it a ghost to seek when 
it wants to invest in an identification.  And with identification in hand, so 
to speak, without an object of consciousness to assign as hey, that there is 
'me,' there's a chance then that identity itself -- as a process of the mind 
-- ceases, and that's a very good thing if you ask me.

Now, if one uses the heart to get to that doorway instead, I cannot gripe.  The 
heart finds the divine and swoons into to it leaving the soul, like Japanese 
sandals on the doorstep, behind.  

Thorn to remove a thorn -- be an individual but only so that there's someone 
to love God, yes, that works, and then, if successful, one can remain a 
devotee in an ocean of unity, or one can go all the way to full Godship -- that 
is, beyond God-the-manifest.  

Note that the monsters of evil, when they attacked Krishna, were instantly 
enlightened -- that is, Krishna stomped them into such a mush that 
identification could no longer find purchase, and they were, as if, returned to 
the unmanifest -- free of all evil attachments.  

A hard path, the dark side is. -- Yoda

As for becoming heartless due to TM not having a devotional dynamic, h, not 
so much.  Maybe, but not sure, cuz I work the heart in daily life, so maybe 
most folks get enough exercise that way to balance TM's lack of it.  

 Edg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of 
 processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired 
 also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many 
 people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or 
 become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do.
 
 I appreciate your posting these words.
 
 I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you think 
 of this part:
 
 
 One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
 of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress
 whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
 discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some
 meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and no
 unfoldment of true spiritual values. 
 Haven't you ever
 wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, especially
 the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical
 repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not opening
 it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of
 disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same
 feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is
 because they are disconnected from their hearts.
 
 What do you think about this?
 
 
 
 
 
  From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 
   
 What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? 
 
 Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
 
 And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 
 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
 technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders?  
 If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
 leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
 they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES! 
 
 Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? 
 
 These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
 dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, so 
 much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
 
 One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
 something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
 walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
 he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and 
 leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. 
 
 I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
 worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lords

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote:
 Who were these white trash rednecks? Did these type of people have a 
 tendency to want to become TM teachers? What makes you think types like these 
 would never enter the Movement again due to the re-certification process? 
 What was it about the process that ensured this? What makes MJ someone 
 outside of the Movement when he was clearly very much inside the Movement 
 for decades? Or is someone not part of the Movement who is not a teacher? 
 That would certainly disqualify a lot of students and meditators. Or did your 
 response just signify a knee jerk, but baseless, short diatribe containing 
 nothing but unfounded reaction? These are not rhetorical questions Nab. 

I want to know what you mean here.

No you don't Ann. I've posted several answers to your questions before and 
receiving only gibberish as a response, so I will not even try again.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[seventhray27]

Hey Edg,

Nice post.  I especially liked part

That is something I've never thought of.  Now, at the risk of sounding
stupid, is this sort of the encapsulated version of Advaita.  I've
never really understood it before, or had the  motivation to try to
figure it out.  But you've come up with such a concise description, that
I can get my head around it.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote:

 Mjackson740,

 I think any intent is devolving, but if one is going to insist on
being one, (an individuality) then bhakti is probably a safe way to
spend your identity dollar. Ramana Maharshi says that the mantra must
be accompanied by the devotional substrate-dynamic, so I'm going to go
with that opinion, but note that Ramana rejects all techniques as
secondary compared to direct realization of the Self.

 To ask Who am I? instantly dissolves the ego to insignificance when
it simply cannot be found! This method tricks the mind by giving it a
ghost to seek when it wants to invest in an identification. And with
identification in hand, so to speak, without an object of
consciousness to assign as hey, that there is 'me,' there's a chance
then that identity itself -- as a process of the mind -- ceases, and
that's a very good thing if you ask me.

 Now, if one uses the heart to get to that doorway instead, I cannot
gripe. The heart finds the divine and swoons into to it leaving the
soul, like Japanese sandals on the doorstep, behind.

 Thorn to remove a thorn -- be an individual but only so that there's
someone to love God, yes, that works, and then, if successful, one can
remain a devotee in an ocean of unity, or one can go all the way to full
Godship -- that is, beyond God-the-manifest.

 Note that the monsters of evil, when they attacked Krishna, were
instantly enlightened -- that is, Krishna stomped them into such a mush
that identification could no longer find purchase, and they were, as if,
returned to the unmanifest -- free of all evil attachments.

 A hard path, the dark side is. -- Yoda

 As for becoming heartless due to TM not having a devotional dynamic,
h, not so much. Maybe, but not sure, cuz I work the heart in daily
life, so maybe most folks get enough exercise that way to balance TM's
lack of it.

 Edg

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@
wrote:
 
  Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the
process of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months
- I have tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as
effective why do so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM
long term act like asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not
everyone, but a lot do.
 
  I appreciate your posting these words.
 
  I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what
you think of this part:
 
 
  One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
  of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress
  whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
  discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition
of some
  meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's
life, and no
  unfoldment of true spiritual values.
  Haven't you ever
  wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless,
especially
  the administrators the early courses? It was because their
mechanical
  repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart,
not opening
  it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a
sort of
  disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the
same
  feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly
evolved, it is
  because they are disconnected from their hearts.
 
  What do you think about this?
 
 
 
 
  
  From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 
 
  Â
  What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?
 
  Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is.
 
  And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of
TM, 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a
nothing technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the
movement's leaders? If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit,
then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a
technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have said:
ASSHOLES!
 
  Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise
persuaded?
 
  These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of
others, dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me
personally, so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
 
  One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people
doing something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
  Who were these white trash rednecks? Did these type of people have a 
  tendency to want to become TM teachers? What makes you think types like 
  these would never enter the Movement again due to the re-certification 
  process? What was it about the process that ensured this? What makes MJ 
  someone outside of the Movement when he was clearly very much inside the 
  Movement for decades? Or is someone not part of the Movement who is not a 
  teacher? That would certainly disqualify a lot of students and meditators. 
  Or did your response just signify a knee jerk, but baseless, short diatribe 
  containing nothing but unfounded reaction? These are not rhetorical 
  questions Nab. 
 
 I want to know what you mean here.
 
 No you don't Ann. I've posted several answers to your questions before and 
 receiving only gibberish as a response, so I will not even try again.

Okee dokee.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

 to insignificance
when
 it simply cannot be found! This method tricks the mind by giving it a
 ghost to seek when it wants to invest in an identification. And with
 identification in hand, so to speak, without an object of
 consciousness to assign as hey, that there is 'me,' there's a chance
 then that identity itself -- as a process of the mind -- ceases, and
 that's a very good thing if you ask me.
 
  Now, if one uses the heart to get to that doorway instead, I cannot
 gripe. The heart finds the divine and swoons into to it leaving the
 soul, like Japanese sandals on the doorstep, behind.
 
  Thorn to remove a thorn -- be an individual but only so that there's
 someone to love God, yes, that works, and then, if successful, one
can
 remain a devotee in an ocean of unity, or one can go all the way to
full
 Godship -- that is, beyond God-the-manifest.
 
  Note that the monsters of evil, when they attacked Krishna, were
 instantly enlightened -- that is, Krishna stomped them into such a
mush
 that identification could no longer find purchase, and they were, as
if,
 returned to the unmanifest -- free of all evil attachments.
 
  A hard path, the dark side is. -- Yoda
 
  As for becoming heartless due to TM not having a devotional dynamic,
 h, not so much. Maybe, but not sure, cuz I work the heart in
daily
 life, so maybe most folks get enough exercise that way to balance TM's
 lack of it.
 
  Edg
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@
 wrote:
  
   Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the
 process of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last
months
 - I have tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as
 effective why do so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM
 long term act like asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not
 everyone, but a lot do.
  
   I appreciate your posting these words.
  
   I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know
what
 you think of this part:
  
  
   One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
   of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual
progress
   whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in
many
   discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition
 of some
   meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's
 life, and no
   unfoldment of true spiritual values.
   Haven't you ever
   wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so
heartless,
 especially
   the administrators the early courses? It was because their
 mechanical
   repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart,
 not opening
   it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a
 sort of
   disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have
the
 same
   feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly
 evolved, it is
   because they are disconnected from their hearts.
  
   What do you think about this?
  
  
  
  
   
   From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
   Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin
Folks
  
  
   Â
   What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?
  
   Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is.
  
   And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of
 TM, 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a
 nothing technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the
 movement's leaders? If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit,
 then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a
 technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have
said:
 ASSHOLES!
  
   Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise
 persuaded?
  
   These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of
 others, dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me
 personally, so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
  
   One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people
 doing something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I
 personally walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM
 minor-leader, and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me
to
 give him the check and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was
chicken
 feed to him.
  
   I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions
 in net worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal
lordsnot
 even nice to their wives.
  
   It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone. Even a
person
 making $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the
 streets.like that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself
 real. BAH!
  
   And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and
 privilege to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et
 alia

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[seventhray27]

  with that opinion, but note that Ramana rejects all techniques as
  secondary compared to direct realization of the Self.
  
   To ask Who am I? instantly dissolves the ego to insignificance
 when
  it simply cannot be found! This method tricks the mind by giving it
a
  ghost to seek when it wants to invest in an identification. And with
  identification in hand, so to speak, without an object of
  consciousness to assign as hey, that there is 'me,' there's a
chance
  then that identity itself -- as a process of the mind -- ceases, and
  that's a very good thing if you ask me.
  
   Now, if one uses the heart to get to that doorway instead, I
cannot
  gripe. The heart finds the divine and swoons into to it leaving the
  soul, like Japanese sandals on the doorstep, behind.
  
   Thorn to remove a thorn -- be an individual but only so that
there's
  someone to love God, yes, that works, and then, if successful, one
 can
  remain a devotee in an ocean of unity, or one can go all the way to
 full
  Godship -- that is, beyond God-the-manifest.
  
   Note that the monsters of evil, when they attacked Krishna, were
  instantly enlightened -- that is, Krishna stomped them into such a
 mush
  that identification could no longer find purchase, and they were, as
 if,
  returned to the unmanifest -- free of all evil attachments.
  
   A hard path, the dark side is. -- Yoda
  
   As for becoming heartless due to TM not having a devotional
dynamic,
  h, not so much. Maybe, but not sure, cuz I work the heart in
 daily
  life, so maybe most folks get enough exercise that way to balance
TM's
  lack of it.
  
   Edg
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@
  wrote:
   
Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in
the
  process of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last
 months
  - I have tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as
  effective why do so many people quit? Why do so many people who do
TM
  long term act like asses or become completely ineffective in life?
Not
  everyone, but a lot do.
   
I appreciate your posting these words.
   
I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know
 what
  you think of this part:
   
   
One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual
 progress
whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in
 many
discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical
repetition
  of some
meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in
one's
  life, and no
unfoldment of true spiritual values.
Haven't you ever
wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so
 heartless,
  especially
the administrators the early courses? It was because their
  mechanical
repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their
heart,
  not opening
it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered
a
  sort of
disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have
 the
  same
feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly
  evolved, it is
because they are disconnected from their hearts.
   
What do you think about this?
   
   
   
   

From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin
 Folks
   
   
Â
What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?
   
Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is.
   
And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years
of
  TM, 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such
a
  nothing technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the
  movement's leaders? If I was not improved, and my opinion is for
shit,
  then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a
  technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have
 said:
  ASSHOLES!
   
Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise
  persuaded?
   
These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of
  others, dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me
  personally, so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
   
One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people
  doing something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I
  personally walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM
  minor-leader, and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me
 to
  give him the check and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was
 chicken
  feed to him.
   
I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of
millions
  in net worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal
 lordsnot
  even nice to their wives.
   
It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone. Even a
 person

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 ¨
  I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough 
  to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some 
  might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might 
  have left a mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are 
  disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.
 
 
 Good story. 
 Regarding those disaappointed souls, in my experience with being in these 
 settings for 40 years, they have all one thing in common; they never liked 
 sadhana in the first place. Too restless to really LIKE or even be able to 
 sit. 
 
 And now hey are bitter ? For what, because their restless nature has been 
 cruel to them ? In my experiene, the vast majority of these are simply 
 spiritually lazy. 
 
 Then ofcourse they need someone ELSE to blame.


Come, O Thou traveler unknown
Whom still I hold, but cannot see;
My company before is gone,
And I am left alone with Thee
With Thee all night I mean to stay,
And wrestle till the break of day.

In vain Thou strugglest to get free,
I never will unloose my hold;
Art Thou the Unified Field?
The secret of Thy love unfold.
Wrestling, I will not let Thee go,
Till I Thy name, Thy nature know.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 You are right again! Also I do barely remember the separate 
 bathrooms and drinking fountains - there were some places 
 in the South that took a while to get rid of them - where 
 did you grow up, if I may ask?

Florida until I started school, and then Albany, 
Georgia until I was about 14. At that point, my
father became a more normal Air Force officer, 
and we started moving -- first to Morocco, then
to El Paso, TX, etc. I've been moving every year
or two (with a couple of exceptions) ever since.
It kinda gets into your blood. 

As for the South, I to this day feel grateful to
the United States Air Force for sending my father
and his family to Morocco at such a formative time
in my life. I was plunged into the Third World,
and loved every minute of it, getting a real edu-
cation in what the rest of the world was like. If
I'd grown up in the US -- especially in the South --
I might not have ever known. 


 
  From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 5:13 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  snippus interruptus
  So when folks like the current version of myself come along 
  and say hey! Who IS that man behind the curtain the object 
  referral people feel their very soul identity is being 
  called into question.
  
  Some people here may find it offensive but drawing on my 
  Southern heritage, the rednecks I was raised with could not 
  imagine a world where white men were not superior to blacks. 
  As my daddy said once, you work with 'em, you tolerate 'em 
  but you don't socialize with them.
  
  Any idea of racial equality truly threatened their self 
  identity that depended on belief of whites as a superior 
  race and you could in some places I have been in the past 
  get your ass kicked for offering any other opinion on the 
  subject.
 
 I grew up in the South, too, so I can identify with 
 your metaphor. Possibly being older than you, I grew
 up in an environment in which every restaurant had
 two water fountains and four bathrooms, one set of 
 each for white and colored. 
 
 My parents -- bless them -- didn't think this way.
 They thought more along the lines that your daddy
 did, and I kinda caught their 'tude from them. I 
 was once thrown off of a city bus at age ten or so
 for wanting to sit in the back row of the bus. I 
 liked it back there; it was spacious and one could
 stretch out and enjoy oneself. But I was white. The
 back of the bus was for coloreds. 
 
 The driver literally stopped the bus, got up, walked
 back to the back of the bus and threw me off. The
 coloreds I'd been having a fine time with waved
 at me as the bus pulled away. None of the white 
 folks did. 
 
 I think the metaphor extends to spiritual traditions.
 People *get used to shit*. Whether that shit is the
 caste system in India or governors being better
 than mere meditators, it's all shit. Once they
 buy into defending the shit, they don't like being
 told that it's shit.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Susan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote:

 Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of 
 three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost 
 everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going 
 on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
 
 Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - 
 read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of 
 $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with 
 no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on 
 the walls though.:-)
 
 Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
 events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the 
 first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the 
 Taste of Utopia course in DC.
 
 Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad 
 nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant 
 hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except 
 for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't 
 lose money on many courses.
 
 So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
 Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.
 
 After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
 continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the 
 time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS 
 in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself 
 into a normal, successful worldly life.
 

I did the same as you. But, I think working for the TMO for 3 years is a lot 
less time than many people invested.  Also, for many back in the 1970's, they 
were of an age when people go to grad school, or get started in a career, begin 
to set up an adult life.  I know of a few people who felt very angry in 
retrospect, that they had spent their 20's and early 30's working for the TMO, 
only to find that they were without credentials or any savings by the time they 
decided Enuf.   Despite this, many  got on with their lives and made great 
successes of things, even if later in life.  Some did not and would have 
benefitted from a more traditional life plan. I did not see tons of young 
Indians spending their 20's and 30's working for little compensation for the 
TMO.  That would not have been ok with Indian parents, tradition or values.  I 
think one of the problems was that the Westerners tried to have a foot in each 
camp: householder and devotee, and they often ended up without funds or 
experience to manage much in the real world as well as lost faith in the guru.  

I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough to 
manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some might 
feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might have left a 
mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are disappointed about 
the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.

 If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot 
 out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when 
 they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-)
 
 The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any 
 other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
  
   The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than 
   any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history.
   
   this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'...
  
  Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the 
  most bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of themselves, 
  in the Movement whether it was in in the form of years, sweat, dedication 
  or belief. This was a cost on some level. When someone has put so much of 
  themselves into something and found it, in the end, wanting it seems to me 
  natural that there is disappointment, bitterness, a foundation for 
  defining/revealing, what went wrong. It is never a valid excuse that 
  something isn't wrong because it happens all the time. Frequency of 
  transgression does not override the seriousness of it.
   
 snip

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Richard J. Williams]

Duveyoung:
 I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, 
 knew the other via pot-lucks.  Both millionaires AT BIRTH 
 -- both assholesmean assholeshaughty, rude 
 motherfucking assholes.

You're an asshole for posting this. What was it, the the 
money? LoL!

 Did I make myself clear?  I don't know about the others.
 
SNIP

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote:

 http://youtu.be/3sqA--t9XZY

Perfect and thank you Raunch. Since I am not a TV watcher I have failed to ever 
see Project Runway but one big difference between the lady with the popcorn 
stuck to her hip and lightbulbs and cardboard festooned all over he body is 
that she isn't calling herself a Raja. I think that makes all the difference.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  Oh c'mon, Have you *watched* Project Runway?!!? Makes this cat look like 
  a boy scout...
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
  
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
   
   

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
 
  I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, knew the
   other via pot-lucks.  Both millionaires AT BIRTH -- ¨
   
Oh dear, BY BIRTH ?? AND devotees of a Saint ??? Assholes, no doubt 
   about it !!
   OK but what self-respecting person (are all Rajas men?!?!?! If so that
   could explain a few things) would be willing to go around dressed like
   THIS? To me, this says it all.
   
   
   
   
   
  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:

 Oh c'mon, Have you *watched* Project Runway?!!? Makes this cat look
like a boy scout...
I like the Boy Scout's hat better.



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
  
  
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:

 I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, knew
the
  other via pot-lucks.  Both millionaires AT BIRTH -- ¨
  
   Oh dear, BY BIRTH ?? AND devotees of a Saint ??? Assholes, no
doubt
  about it !!
  OK but what self-respecting person (are all Rajas men?!?!?! If so
that
  could explain a few things) would be willing to go around dressed
like
  THIS? To me, this says it all.
 
 
 
 
  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?  

Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.

And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 
hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing technique 
that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders?  If I was not 
improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are leaders of a 
movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- 
or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES!  

Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded?  

These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, so 
much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.

One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally walked 
over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and he too 
perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and leave his 
office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him.

I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net worth 
each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice to their 
wives.  

It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
$30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like that, 
the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!

And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege to 
the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia.  

This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human in 
that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand 
down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so who knows 
what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do with their 
money and how they treat their minions.  

And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished masses 
who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in gonzo 
business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for more cash 
EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at least ten times 
a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their gold turns the rich 
into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to approach the rich with 
anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They smell your beggary from 100 
feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out 
from the masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with.  
Vicious cycle that.  

Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used to 
good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is just 
not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological excitation, but I 
could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that.  

I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., right?  
The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual clarity -- 
tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any discussion of the 
fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's money/death, and on and 
on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't respect us or grant us any right 
to know about most of the movement's machinations. 

Here's one symbolic moment for me:  on teacher training, Maharishi had a 
meeting that was sort of thrown together quickly in a very small venue and it 
turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only a 100 
people in the room.  This rich guy planks his ass down right next to Maharishi, 
and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of listening he 
interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the words of 
Maharishi.   

Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- they 
knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the movement, ya 
see?  Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever touched Maharishi 
was Tat Walla Baba.  

If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent home 
FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place.

And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- which 
means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady asshole.  

And that's the cause of all this bitterness you see in my writings -- I did 
this to me.  100% on me, but if anyone here wants to defend the TMO as 
guilt-free because everyone has their integrity and has to own their own 
karma, so we get to maraud others with fake science, lies, lies and more lies, 
then I'm probably going to piss 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:
¨
 I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough 
 to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some 
 might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might have 
 left a mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are disappointed 
 about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.


Good story. 
Regarding those disaappointed souls, in my experience with being in these 
settings for 40 years, they have all one thing in common; they never liked 
sadhana in the first place. Too restless to really LIKE or even be able to sit. 

And now hey are bitter ? For what, because their restless nature has been cruel 
to them ? In my experiene, the vast majority of these are simply spiritually 
lazy. 

Then ofcourse they need someone ELSE to blame.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Susan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote:

 What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?  
 
 Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
 
 And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 
 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
 technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders?  
 If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
 leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
 they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES!  
 
 Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded?  
 
 These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
 dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, so 
 much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
 
 One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
 something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
 walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
 he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and 
 leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him.
 
 I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
 worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice 
 to their wives.  
 
 It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
 $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like that, 
 the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!
 
 And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege 
 to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia.  
 
 This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human in 
 that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand 
 down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so who 
 knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do with 
 their money and how they treat their minions.  
 
 And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
 funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
 masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in 
 gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for more 
 cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at least 
 ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their gold turns 
 the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to approach the 
 rich with anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They smell your 
 beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, because they are 
 always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only people like them 
 to hob nob with.  Vicious cycle that.  
 
 Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used to 
 good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is just 
 not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological excitation, but I 
 could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that.  
 
 I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
 Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
 right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
 clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
 discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
 money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
 respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's 
 machinations. 
 
 Here's one symbolic moment for me:  on teacher training, Maharishi had a 
 meeting that was sort of thrown together quickly in a very small venue and 
 it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only a 100 
 people in the room.  This rich guy planks his ass down right next to 
 Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of 
 listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the 
 words of Maharishi.   
 
 Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- they 
 knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the movement, ya 
 see?  Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever touched Maharishi 
 was Tat Walla Baba.  
 
 If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent 
 home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place.
 
 And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- 
 which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady asshole.  
 
 And that's the cause of all this bitterness you see in my writings -- I did 
 this to me.  100% on me,

I guess there is lots of psycho talk about how in some amazing way we are 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

I agree.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total 
  of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost 
  everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from 
  going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
  
  Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - 
  read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of 
  $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter 
  with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* 
  posters on the walls though.:-)
  
  Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
  events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build 
  the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. 
  Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC.
  
  Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad 
  nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant 
  hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except 
  for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't 
  lose money on many courses.
  
  So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
  Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.
  
  After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
  continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the 
  time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS 
  in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating 
  myself into a normal, successful worldly life.
  
 
 I did the same as you. But, I think working for the TMO for 3 years is a lot 
 less time than many people invested.  Also, for many back in the 1970's, they 
 were of an age when people go to grad school, or get started in a career, 
 begin to set up an adult life.  I know of a few people who felt very angry in 
 retrospect, that they had spent their 20's and early 30's working for the 
 TMO, only to find that they were without credentials or any savings by the 
 time they decided Enuf.   Despite this, many  got on with their lives and 
 made great successes of things, even if later in life.  Some did not and 
 would have benefitted from a more traditional life plan. I did not see tons 
 of young Indians spending their 20's and 30's working for little compensation 
 for the TMO.  That would not have been ok with Indian parents, tradition or 
 values.  I think one of the problems was that the Westerners tried to have a 
 foot in each camp: householder and devotee, and they often ended up without 
 funds or experience to manage much in the real world as well as lost faith in 
 the guru.  
 
 I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough 
 to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some 
 might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might have 
 left a mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are disappointed 
 about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.
 
  If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and 
  trot out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but 
  when they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-)
  
  The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any 
  other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
   
The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than 
any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history.

this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'...
   
   Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the 
   most bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of 
   themselves, in the Movement whether it was in in the form of years, 
   sweat, dedication or belief. This was a cost on some level. When someone 
   has put so much of themselves into something and found it, in the end, 
   wanting it seems to me natural that there is disappointment, bitterness, 
   a foundation for defining/revealing, what went wrong. It is never a valid 
   excuse that something isn't wrong because it happens all the time. 
   Frequency of transgression does not override the seriousness of it.

  snip
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

Kind of...after thinking about it, I did a lot of the same stuff (no skills, 
savings, or education, at age 30 - hadn't even ever had a checking account!), 
due to my allegiance to the TMO for about ten years. Once I left, I had to 
work-my-ass-off, full-time job and school while starting a family - That went 
on for awhile. So if someone feels like they pissed away a decade or two, I am 
a member of that club.

I am also a big proponent of sharing personal impressions - However, when does 
it stop? I have known people in my life who as a result of a significant 
trauma, which the TMO experiences appear to be for some, have made that their 
central and defining moment, like wearing a millstone of failure around their 
necks constantly. It seems like such a waste of time. See a therapist, talk to 
sympathetic friends, write a letter, make a phone call - something to get out 
of the cycle, as you suggested.

The larger point 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote:

 I agree.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
  
   Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a 
   total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, 
   almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, 
   from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
   
   Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP 
   - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of 
   $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter 
   with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* 
   posters on the walls though.:-)
   
   Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
   events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build 
   the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. 
   Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC.
   
   Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here 
   ad nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, 
   blatant hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though 
   thankfully, except for my overall income for those three years working 
   for the TMO, I didn't lose money on many courses.
   
   So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
   Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.
   
   After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
   continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the 
   time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any 
   BS in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating 
   myself into a normal, successful worldly life.
   
  
  I did the same as you. But, I think working for the TMO for 3 years is a 
  lot less time than many people invested.  Also, for many back in the 
  1970's, they were of an age when people go to grad school, or get started 
  in a career, begin to set up an adult life.  I know of a few people who 
  felt very angry in retrospect, that they had spent their 20's and early 
  30's working for the TMO, only to find that they were without credentials 
  or any savings by the time they decided Enuf.   Despite this, many  got on 
  with their lives and made great successes of things, even if later in life. 
   Some did not and would have benefitted from a more traditional life plan. 
  I did not see tons of young Indians spending their 20's and 30's working 
  for little compensation for the TMO.  That would not have been ok with 
  Indian parents, tradition or values.  I think one of the problems was that 
  the Westerners tried to have a foot in each camp: householder and devotee, 
  and they often ended up without funds or experience to manage much in the 
  real world as well as lost faith in the guru.  
  
  I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough 
  to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some 
  might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might 
  have left a mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are 
  disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.
  
   If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and 
   trot out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, 
   but when they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-)
   
   The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than 
   any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. 
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
   


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Susan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 ¨
  I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough 
  to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some 
  might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might 
  have left a mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are 
  disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.
 
 
 Good story. 
 Regarding those disaappointed souls, in my experience with being in these 
 settings for 40 years, they have all one thing in common; they never liked 
 sadhana in the first place. Too restless to really LIKE or even be able to 
 sit. 

That was not my experience at all.  In fact, I saw many overly devoted folks, 
who adored sitting still, feel most angry when they decided the TMO was not for 
them. I admired their honesty.   Personally, I was devoted but did not buy into 
all the things 100%.  I kept my own sense of right and wrong because of the way 
I was built, I guess. I felt less loyal and committed, but knew I could never 
give up my own values. I spoke up a bit, but then got sucked into making a 
living and all the TMO stuff seemed far away.That made it easier to stay in, 
but is, I feel, less honest.  Just a different role to play.
 
 And now hey are bitter ? For what, because their restless nature has been 
 cruel to them ? In my experiene, the vast majority of these are simply 
 spiritually lazy. 

They saw and heard stuff they felt was dishonest or not true to their vision of 
what they were doing with their lives.  
 
 Then ofcourse they need someone ELSE to blame.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

LOL - well said - reminds me of something I heard: If you don't want to see it 
through, don't even begin the spiritual path.:-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 ¨
  I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough 
  to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some 
  might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might 
  have left a mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are 
  disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.
 
 
 Good story. 
 Regarding those disaappointed souls, in my experience with being in these 
 settings for 40 years, they have all one thing in common; they never liked 
 sadhana in the first place. Too restless to really LIKE or even be able to 
 sit. 
 
 And now hey are bitter ? For what, because their restless nature has been 
 cruel to them ? In my experiene, the vast majority of these are simply 
 spiritually lazy. 
 
 Then ofcourse they need someone ELSE to blame.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Susan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote:

 Kind of...after thinking about it, I did a lot of the same stuff (no skills, 
 savings, or education, at age 30 - hadn't even ever had a checking account!), 
 due to my allegiance to the TMO for about ten years. Once I left, I had to 
 work-my-ass-off, full-time job and school while starting a family - That went 
 on for awhile. So if someone feels like they pissed away a decade or two, I 
 am a member of that club.
 
 I am also a big proponent of sharing personal impressions - However, when 
 does it stop? I have known people in my life who as a result of a significant 
 trauma, which the TMO experiences appear to be for some, have made that their 
 central and defining moment, like wearing a millstone of failure around their 
 necks constantly. It seems like such a waste of time. See a therapist, talk 
 to sympathetic friends, write a letter, make a phone call - something to get 
 out of the cycle, as you suggested.

And I agree with you on this.   I guess you are right that this leaving the TM 
or TMO can be a trauma for some. 
 
 The larger point 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  I agree.
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
   
Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a 
total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, 
almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the 
verge, from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0

Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my 
TMSP - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely 
sum of $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in 
mid-Winter with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the 
*right* posters on the walls though.:-)

Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key 
TMO events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped 
build the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of 
Enlightenment. Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC.

Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described 
here ad nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the 
Govs, blatant hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though 
thankfully, except for my overall income for those three years working 
for the TMO, I didn't lose money on many courses.

So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO 
and Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.

After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at 
the time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so 
that any BS in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of 
integrating myself into a normal, successful worldly life.

   
   I did the same as you. But, I think working for the TMO for 3 years is a 
   lot less time than many people invested.  Also, for many back in the 
   1970's, they were of an age when people go to grad school, or get started 
   in a career, begin to set up an adult life.  I know of a few people who 
   felt very angry in retrospect, that they had spent their 20's and early 
   30's working for the TMO, only to find that they were without credentials 
   or any savings by the time they decided Enuf.   Despite this, many  got 
   on with their lives and made great successes of things, even if later in 
   life.  Some did not and would have benefitted from a more traditional 
   life plan. I did not see tons of young Indians spending their 20's and 
   30's working for little compensation for the TMO.  That would not have 
   been ok with Indian parents, tradition or values.  I think one of the 
   problems was that the Westerners tried to have a foot in each camp: 
   householder and devotee, and they often ended up without funds or 
   experience to manage much in the real world as well as lost faith in the 
   guru.  
   
   I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky 
   enough to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get 
   why some might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the 
   mainstream might have left a mark - that they never caught up.  
   Especially if they are disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then 
   they lost on both counts.
   
If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, 
and trot out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go 
ahead, but when they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda 
dumb: :-)

The TMO is in my 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

You bring up a good point regarding the seed of resentment that was planted in 
you, and continues to blossom. We humans have an innate sense of equality with 
each other. However, some people are attracted to the idea that they can be 
part of a social class that is PERMANENTLY superior. As anyone can see, in  
this world, it is a common mental illness. 

And, using the examples of class systems in any part of the world, and within 
any organization, it always produces the same result - those who are placed in 
the underclass, viscerally hate those placing themselves in the upper class. 
The underclass is placed in a position of permanent inferiority, with not only 
no hope of equality or redemption, but also within a social structure that 
constantly reinforces the inviolable class distinction, to their disadvantage.

So, I get it, and I know that it takes a lot of work to regain one's sense of 
equality in life, after being subjected to that environment. One thing that 
helps me is recognizing any class distinctions between people as superficial, 
and frankly, silly - those on the pedestals of their own making become the 
performing clowns.:-)



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote:

 What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?  
 
 Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
 
 And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 
 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
 technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders?  
 If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
 leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
 they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES!  
 
 Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded?  
 
 These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
 dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, so 
 much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
 
 One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
 something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
 walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
 he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and 
 leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him.
 
 I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
 worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice 
 to their wives.  
 
 It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
 $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like that, 
 the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!
 
 And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege 
 to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia.  
 
 This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human in 
 that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand 
 down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so who 
 knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do with 
 their money and how they treat their minions.  
 
 And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
 funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
 masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in 
 gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for more 
 cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at least 
 ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their gold turns 
 the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to approach the 
 rich with anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They smell your 
 beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, because they are 
 always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only people like them 
 to hob nob with.  Vicious cycle that.  
 
 Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used to 
 good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is just 
 not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological excitation, but I 
 could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that.  
 
 I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
 Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
 right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
 clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
 discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
 money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
 respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's 
 machinations. 
 
 Here's one symbolic moment 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard 
Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect?





 From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of 
three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost 
everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going 
on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0

Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - read 
the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of $25/mo., 
slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with no plumbing 
- in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on the walls 
though.:-)

Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the 
first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the 
Taste of Utopia course in DC.

Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad 
nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant 
hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except for 
my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't lose 
money on many courses.

So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.

After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the time, 
and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS in the 
TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself into a 
normal, successful worldly life.

If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot 
out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when 
they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-)

The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any 
other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any 
  other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history.
  
  this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'...
 
 Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the most 
 bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of themselves, in the 
 Movement whether it was in in the form of years, sweat, dedication or belief. 
 This was a cost on some level. When someone has put so much of themselves 
 into something and found it, in the end, wanting it seems to me natural that 
 there is disappointment, bitterness, a foundation for defining/revealing, 
 what went wrong. It is never a valid excuse that something isn't wrong 
 because it happens all the time. Frequency of transgression does not override 
 the seriousness of it.
  
snip


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote:

 LOL - well said - reminds me of something I heard: If you doen't want to see 
 it through, don't even begin the spiritual path.:-)


Don't know who you replied to here Dr., but sometimes I wonder why the Masters 
instructed Maharishi to throw his nets so wide. He commented on the choise he 
had once saying he had two choices; staying in the Himalayas selecting a 
handfull of serious students or offering the gift of Guru Dev to the whole 
world. 
He certainly made an interesting descision.

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
  ¨
   I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky 
   enough to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get 
   why some might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the 
   mainstream might have left a mark - that they never caught up.  
   Especially if they are disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then 
   they lost on both counts.
  
  
  Good story. 
  Regarding those disaappointed souls, in my experience with being in these 
  settings for 40 years, they have all one thing in common; they never liked 
  sadhana in the first place. Too restless to really LIKE or even be able to 
  sit. 
  
  And now hey are bitter ? For what, because their restless nature has been 
  cruel to them ? In my experiene, the vast majority of these are simply 
  spiritually lazy. 
  
  Then ofcourse they need someone ELSE to blame.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

 illegally moved to other 
  countries.  
  
  On the other end:  Maharishi is said to told someone to drive fast 
  and not care about the speed limits.  Maharishi gave everyone salt 
  and peanuts on the courses even though it was wrong.  
  
  Think about the mind-set of the MUM officials when that guy stabbed 
  the other guy.  THAT'S HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- cover the 
  movement's ass and save face AT ANY COST.
  
  They all just did what they wanted to do and figured out words for 
  it later.  No morality.  No righteousness.  Just self-serving 
  movement besmirching decisions is all.
  
  It is all made-up on the spot.  I'll bet Maharishi decided on the 
  first set of mantras in about 10 minutes flat.  
  
  Edg
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote:
  
   there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the 
   movement you are slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? 
   Likewise you defame Maharishi with absolutely no proof of any of 
   the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot from others. The fault is 
   in yourself.
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson 
   mjackson74@ wrote:
   
the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular 
people who do it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that 
has led to the utterly corrupt practices on Wall Street that 
has led to a world wide economic crisis - where is your proof 
of Gandhi clan corruption other than what you have heard and 
read? 

I read this comment by an English person commenting on the 
Mayan flyer articles and I passed it on, much like you are 
passing on information and judgement about the Gandhis - I 
don't give damn who else lies, cheats and steals it doesn't 
make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it too, 
especially when they have been taking money under false 
pretenses for decades and then can't even bring themselves to 
handle the wealth legitimately

Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest 
behavior - the kind of behavior that these people manifest show 
a low and selfish level of consciousness and the kind of 
mentality that excuses it for the Marshy family while reviling 
others in India for doing the same thing reminds me of the 
character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the movie 
Gladiator.

Show me the public information that shows without question that 
Maha was an honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for 
nearly 60 years. Back up what you say. 

I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry 
because what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does 
not deserve that title) has the ring of truth AND when you put 
all the stories together with public statements and actions 
(like the scorpion nation episode) you see a consistent picture 
of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, horny, greedy con 
artist who created a movement dedicated not to the 
enlightenment of the world nor the betterment of the individual 
but to making himself an icon and living a high and luxurious 
life. 

You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless 
innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public 
information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of 
the funds he received for 57 years.

All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run 
them are corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or 
institutional corruption and dishonesty. 





 From: srijau@ srijau@
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin 
Folks
 

  
when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like 
India's has been for some time then it should come as no 
surprise that one has to resort to things like smuggling gold 
into the country. The Gandhi clan is the one that has been 
single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the level of 
manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and 
against anyone they imagine to not support those ends is not 
something that I think you understand. If you were an Indian 
you would especially given the recent revelations of the 
miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into that 
family. Whatever you claim

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

Sorry, I don't remember him - I was on a support crew from the CAE project near 
Kansas City, so didn't get to know many of the guys doing the design. 

Probably my biggest regret from those days was while digging the foundation for 
the CAE near KC, I found a beautiful pre-Colombian axe head (verified by an 
archeologist on staff). A real treasure. Unfortunately, had no sense back then 
and gave it away after leaving. Oh well...

BTW, last time I google mapped the KC CAE, it is being torn down for scrap. Fun 
project while it lasted. Unfortunately, didn't survive the sthapatya veda 
craze, as it had a, gulp, south facing entrance.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard 
 Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect?
 
 
 
 
 
  From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 
   
 Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of 
 three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost 
 everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going 
 on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
 
 Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - 
 read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of 
 $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with 
 no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on 
 the walls though.:-)
 
 Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
 events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the 
 first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the 
 Taste of Utopia course in DC.
 
 Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad 
 nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant 
 hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except 
 for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't 
 lose money on many courses.
 
 So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
 Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.
 
 After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
 continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the 
 time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS 
 in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself 
 into a normal, successful worldly life.
 
 If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot 
 out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when 
 they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-)
 
 The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any 
 other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
  
   The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than 
   any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history.
   
   this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'...
  
  Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the 
  most bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of themselves, 
  in the Movement whether it was in in the form of years, sweat, dedication 
  or belief. This was a cost on some level. When someone has put so much of 
  themselves into something and found it, in the end, wanting it seems to me 
  natural that there is disappointment, bitterness, a foundation for 
  defining/revealing, what went wrong. It is never a valid excuse that 
  something isn't wrong because it happens all the time. Frequency of 
  transgression does not override the seriousness of it.
   
 snip

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

or you could stop reading the post you think are a waste of time





 From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:59 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
Kind of...after thinking about it, I did a lot of the same stuff (no skills, 
savings, or education, at age 30 - hadn't even ever had a checking account!), 
due to my allegiance to the TMO for about ten years. Once I left, I had to 
work-my-ass-off, full-time job and school while starting a family - That went 
on for awhile. So if someone feels like they pissed away a decade or two, I am 
a member of that club.

I am also a big proponent of sharing personal impressions - However, when does 
it stop? I have known people in my life who as a result of a significant 
trauma, which the TMO experiences appear to be for some, have made that their 
central and defining moment, like wearing a millstone of failure around their 
necks constantly. It seems like such a waste of time. See a therapist, talk to 
sympathetic friends, write a letter, make a phone call - something to get out 
of the cycle, as you suggested.

The larger point 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote:

 I agree.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
  
   Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a 
   total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, 
   almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, 
   from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
   
   Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP 
   - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of 
   $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter 
   with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* 
   posters on the walls though.:-)
   
   Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
   events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build 
   the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. 
   Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC.
   
   Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here 
   ad nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, 
   blatant hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though 
   thankfully, except for my overall income for those three years working 
   for the TMO, I didn't lose money on many courses.
   
   So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
   Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.
   
   After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
   continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the 
   time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any 
   BS in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating 
   myself into a normal, successful worldly life.
   
  
  I did the same as you. But, I think working for the TMO for 3 years is a 
  lot less time than many people invested.  Also, for many back in the 
  1970's, they were of an age when people go to grad school, or get started 
  in a career, begin to set up an adult life.  I know of a few people who 
  felt very angry in retrospect, that they had spent their 20's and early 
  30's working for the TMO, only to find that they were without credentials 
  or any savings by the time they decided Enuf.   Despite this, many  got on 
  with their lives and made great successes of things, even if later in life. 
   Some did not and would have benefitted from a more traditional life plan. 
  I did not see tons of young Indians spending their 20's and 30's working 
  for little compensation for the TMO.  That would not have been ok with 
  Indian parents, tradition or values.  I think one of the problems was that 
  the Westerners tried to have a foot in each camp: householder and devotee, 
  and they
 often ended up without funds or experience to manage much in the real world as 
well as lost faith in the guru. 
  
  I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough 
  to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get why some 
  might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might 
  have left a mark - that they never caught up.  Especially if they are 
  disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts.
  
   If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and 
   trot out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, 
   but when they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

They aren't a waste of time for me, if I read them, but I wonder about their 
diminishing utility for those who post them. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 or you could stop reading the post you think are a waste of time
 
 
 
 
 
  From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:59 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 
   
 Kind of...after thinking about it, I did a lot of the same stuff (no skills, 
 savings, or education, at age 30 - hadn't even ever had a checking account!), 
 due to my allegiance to the TMO for about ten years. Once I left, I had to 
 work-my-ass-off, full-time job and school while starting a family - That went 
 on for awhile. So if someone feels like they pissed away a decade or two, I 
 am a member of that club.
 
 I am also a big proponent of sharing personal impressions - However, when 
 does it stop? I have known people in my life who as a result of a significant 
 trauma, which the TMO experiences appear to be for some, have made that their 
 central and defining moment, like wearing a millstone of failure around their 
 necks constantly. It seems like such a waste of time. See a therapist, talk 
 to sympathetic friends, write a letter, make a phone call - something to get 
 out of the cycle, as you suggested.
 
 The larger point 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  I agree.
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
   
Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a 
total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, 
almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the 
verge, from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0

Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my 
TMSP - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely 
sum of $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in 
mid-Winter with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the 
*right* posters on the walls though.:-)

Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key 
TMO events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped 
build the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of 
Enlightenment. Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC.

Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described 
here ad nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the 
Govs, blatant hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though 
thankfully, except for my overall income for those three years working 
for the TMO, I didn't lose money on many courses.

So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO 
and Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.

After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at 
the time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so 
that any BS in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of 
integrating myself into a normal, successful worldly life.

   
   I did the same as you. But, I think working for the TMO for 3 years is a 
   lot less time than many people invested.  Also, for many back in the 
   1970's, they were of an age when people go to grad school, or get started 
   in a career, begin to set up an adult life.  I know of a few people who 
   felt very angry in retrospect, that they had spent their 20's and early 
   30's working for the TMO, only to find that they were without credentials 
   or any savings by the time they decided Enuf.   Despite this, many  got 
   on with their lives and made great successes of things, even if later in 
   life.  Some did not and would have benefitted from a more traditional 
   life plan. I did not see tons of young Indians spending their 20's and 
   30's working for little compensation for the TMO.  That would not have 
   been ok with Indian parents, tradition or values.  I think one of the 
   problems was that the Westerners tried to have a foot in each camp: 
   householder and devotee, and they
  often ended up without funds or experience to manage much in the real world 
 as well as lost faith in the guru. 
   
   I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky 
   enough to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get 
   why some might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the 
   mainstream might have left a mark - that they never caught up.  
   Especially if they are disappointed about the results

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

?
  
  
  
  
   It's a complete spectrum of silly to evil.
   
   On one end is:  On my teacher training, some guy had a car 
   accident and they sneaked him out of Spain before the cops could 
   get him.  There were many tales of cash being illegally moved to 
   other countries.  
   
   On the other end:  Maharishi is said to told someone to drive 
   fast and not care about the speed limits.  Maharishi gave 
   everyone salt and peanuts on the courses even though it was 
   wrong.  
   
   Think about the mind-set of the MUM officials when that guy 
   stabbed the other guy.  THAT'S HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- cover 
   the movement's ass and save face AT ANY COST.
   
   They all just did what they wanted to do and figured out words 
   for it later.  No morality.  No righteousness.  Just 
   self-serving movement besmirching decisions is all.
   
   It is all made-up on the spot.  I'll bet Maharishi decided on the 
   first set of mantras in about 10 minutes flat.  
   
   Edg
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote:
   
there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the 
movement you are slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? 
Likewise you defame Maharishi with absolutely no proof of any 
of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot from others. The 
fault is in yourself.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson 
mjackson74@ wrote:

 the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular 
 people who do it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that 
 has led to the utterly corrupt practices on Wall Street that 
 has led to a world wide economic crisis - where is your proof 
 of Gandhi clan corruption other than what you have heard and 
 read? 
 
 I read this comment by an English person commenting on the 
 Mayan flyer articles and I passed it on, much like you are 
 passing on information and judgement about the Gandhis - I 
 don't give damn who else lies, cheats and steals it doesn't 
 make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it too, 
 especially when they have been taking money under false 
 pretenses for decades and then can't even bring themselves to 
 handle the wealth legitimately
 
 Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest 
 behavior - the kind of behavior that these people manifest 
 show a low and selfish level of consciousness and the kind of 
 mentality that excuses it for the Marshy family while 
 reviling others in India for doing the same thing reminds me 
 of the character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the 
 movie Gladiator.
 
 Show me the public information that shows without question 
 that Maha was an honest custodian of the funds he lived off 
 of for nearly 60 years. Back up what you say. 
 
 I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry 
 because what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does 
 not deserve that title) has the ring of truth AND when you 
 put all the stories together with public statements and 
 actions (like the scorpion nation episode) you see a 
 consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, 
 horny, greedy con artist who created a movement dedicated not 
 to the enlightenment of the world nor the betterment of the 
 individual but to making himself an icon and living a high 
 and luxurious life. 
 
 You are flat out incorrect when you call these things 
 baseless innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show 
 us the public information showing that Maharishi was an 
 honest custodian of the funds he received for 57 years.
 
 All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run 
 them are corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or 
 institutional corruption and dishonesty. 
 
 
 
 
 
  From: srijau@ srijau@
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin 
 Folks
  
 
   
 when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like 
 India's has been for some time then it should come as no 
 surprise that one has to resort to things like smuggling gold 
 into the country. The Gandhi clan is the one that has been 
 single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the level of 
 manipulation

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Share Long]

20 years ago me and my MA in SCI classmates and Ken and Wendy Cavanaugh stayed 
at the Kansas City CAE.  Wendy took us to the wonderful art museum in KC and 
Ken took his students to some monetary place.  The CAE was on a beautiful piece 
of land and we decorated a Christmas tree and saw a herd of deer running across 
the front lawn.  There was snow on the ground.  It was quite wonderful (-:





 From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
Sorry, I don't remember him - I was on a support crew from the CAE project near 
Kansas City, so didn't get to know many of the guys doing the design. 

Probably my biggest regret from those days was while digging the foundation for 
the CAE near KC, I found a beautiful pre-Colombian axe head (verified by an 
archeologist on staff). A real treasure. Unfortunately, had no sense back then 
and gave it away after leaving. Oh well...

BTW, last time I google mapped the KC CAE, it is being torn down for scrap. Fun 
project while it lasted. Unfortunately, didn't survive the sthapatya veda 
craze, as it had a, gulp, south facing entrance. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard 
 Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect?
 
 
 
 
 
  From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 
 
   
 Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of 
 three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost 
 everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going 
 on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
 
 Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - 
 read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of 
 $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with 
 no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on 
 the walls though.:-)
 
 Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
 events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the 
 first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the 
 Taste of Utopia course in DC.
 
 Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad 
 nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant 
 hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except 
 for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't 
 lose money on many courses.
 
 So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
 Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.
 
 After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
 continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the 
 time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS 
 in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself 
 into a normal, successful worldly life.
 
 If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot 
 out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when 
 they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-)
 
 The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any 
 other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
  
   The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than 
   any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history.
   
   this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'...
  
  Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the 
  most bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of themselves, 
  in the Movement whether it was in in the form of years, sweat, dedication 
  or belief. This was a cost on some level. When someone has put so much of 
  themselves into something and found it, in the end, wanting it seems to me 
  natural that there is disappointment, bitterness, a foundation for 
  defining/revealing, what went wrong. It is never a valid excuse that 
  something isn't wrong because it happens all the time. Frequency of 
  transgression does not override the seriousness of it.
   
 snip



 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Ann]

So what is the scoop with the Rajas? Only rich men? No Ranis? Are millionaire 
women's money not good enough or are they too smart to wear those cheesy 
costumes and give their money away to the TMO?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote:

 What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?  
 
 Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
 
 And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 
 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
 technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders?  
 If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
 leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
 they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES!  
 
 Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded?  
 
 These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
 dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, so 
 much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
 
 One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
 something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
 walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
 he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and 
 leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him.
 
 I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
 worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice 
 to their wives.  
 
 It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
 $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like that, 
 the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!
 
 And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege 
 to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia.  
 
 This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human in 
 that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand 
 down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so who 
 knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do with 
 their money and how they treat their minions.  
 
 And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
 funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
 masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in 
 gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for more 
 cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at least 
 ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their gold turns 
 the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to approach the 
 rich with anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They smell your 
 beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, because they are 
 always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only people like them 
 to hob nob with.  Vicious cycle that.  
 
 Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used to 
 good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is just 
 not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological excitation, but I 
 could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that.  
 
 I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
 Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
 right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
 clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
 discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
 money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
 respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's 
 machinations. 
 
 Here's one symbolic moment for me:  on teacher training, Maharishi had a 
 meeting that was sort of thrown together quickly in a very small venue and 
 it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only a 100 
 people in the room.  This rich guy planks his ass down right next to 
 Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of 
 listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the 
 words of Maharishi.   
 
 Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- they 
 knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the movement, ya 
 see?  Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever touched Maharishi 
 was Tat Walla Baba.  
 
 If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent 
 home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place.
 
 And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- 
 which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

I was not going to be satisfied in this life if I did not find TM or something 
else just like it, to fulfill the spiritual hunger I felt from a young age. So 
I am *really* glad someone, anyone, made the technique available.

That also goes for the Divine Gifts of the microwave oven, plumbed hot water, 
the 'net, the miracle of champagne, and CDs, to name a few!:-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  LOL - well said - reminds me of something I heard: If you doen't want to 
  see it through, don't even begin the spiritual path.:-)
 
 
 Don't know who you replied to here Dr., but sometimes I wonder why the 
 Masters instructed Maharishi to throw his nets so wide. He commented on the 
 choise he had once saying he had two choices; staying in the Himalayas 
 selecting a handfull of serious students or offering the gift of Guru Dev to 
 the whole world. 
 He certainly made an interesting descision.
 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
   ¨
I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky 
enough to manage grad school and a career a bit later.  But I still get 
why some might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the 
mainstream might have left a mark - that they never caught up.  
Especially if they are disappointed about the results of TM itself. 
Then they lost on both counts.
   
   
   Good story. 
   Regarding those disaappointed souls, in my experience with being in these 
   settings for 40 years, they have all one thing in common; they never 
   liked sadhana in the first place. Too restless to really LIKE or even be 
   able to sit. 
   
   And now hey are bitter ? For what, because their restless nature has been 
   cruel to them ? In my experiene, the vast majority of these are simply 
   spiritually lazy. 
   
   Then ofcourse they need someone ELSE to blame.
  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

The naked truth is Mother Divine rules the universe already, so we guys get to 
play dress up, to serve Her. No shit, and any guy that doesn't get that is a 
moron. PS there's a lot of morons.:-) 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote:

 So what is the scoop with the Rajas? Only rich men? No Ranis? Are millionaire 
 women's money not good enough or are they too smart to wear those cheesy 
 costumes and give their money away to the TMO?
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote:
 
  What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?  
  
  Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
  
  And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 
  44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
  technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? 
   If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
  leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
  they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES!  
  
  Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded?  
  
  These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
  dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, 
  so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
  
  One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
  something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
  walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
  he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check 
  and leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him.
  
  I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
  worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice 
  to their wives.  
  
  It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
  $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like 
  that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!
  
  And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege 
  to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia.  
  
  This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human 
  in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to 
  sand down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so 
  who knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do 
  with their money and how they treat their minions.  
  
  And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
  funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
  masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment 
  in gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for 
  more cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at 
  least ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their 
  gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to 
  approach the rich with anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They 
  smell your beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, 
  because they are always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only 
  people like them to hob nob with.  Vicious cycle that.  
  
  Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used 
  to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is 
  just not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological 
  excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that.  
  
  I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
  Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
  right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
  clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
  discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
  money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
  respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's 
  machinations. 
  
  Here's one symbolic moment for me:  on teacher training, Maharishi had a 
  meeting that was sort of thrown together quickly in a very small venue 
  and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only 
  a 100 people in the room.  This rich guy planks his ass down right next to 
  Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of 
  listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the 
  words of Maharishi.   
  
  Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- 
  they knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the 
  movement, ya see?  Up 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote:

 The naked truth is Mother Divine rules the universe already, so we guys get 
 to play dress up, to serve Her. No shit, and any guy that doesn't get that is 
 a moron. PS there's a lot of morons.:-) 

Love ya Doc. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
 
  So what is the scoop with the Rajas? Only rich men? No Ranis? Are 
  millionaire women's money not good enough or are they too smart to wear 
  those cheesy costumes and give their money away to the TMO?
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote:
  
   What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?  
   
   Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
   
   And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 
   44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a 
   nothing technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the 
   movement's leaders?  If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, 
   then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a technique 
   that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES!  
   
   Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded?  
   
   These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
   dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, 
   so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
   
   One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
   something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
   walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, 
   and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the 
   check and leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him.  
 
   
   I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
   worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even 
   nice to their wives.  
   
   It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person 
   making $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the 
   streets.like that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself 
   real.  BAH!
   
   And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and 
   privilege to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et 
   alia.  
   
   This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human 
   in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to 
   sand down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, 
   so who knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what 
   they do with their money and how they treat their minions.  
   
   And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
   funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
   masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and 
   investment in gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on 
   their door for more cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for 
   donations by the TMO at least ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid 
   all that rush for their gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and 
   it shows when you try to approach the rich with anything but hey, try 
   the bean casserole.  They smell your beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on 
   that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out from the 
   masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with.  
   Vicious cycle that.  
   
   Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be 
   used to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other 
   techniques is just not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens 
   physiological excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain 
   that.  
   
   I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
   Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
   right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
   clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
   discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
   money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
   respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's 
   machinations. 
   
   Here's one symbolic moment for me:  on teacher training, Maharishi had a 
   meeting that was sort of thrown together quickly in a very small venue 
   and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe 
   only a 100 people in the room.  This rich guy planks his ass down right 
   next to Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead 
   of listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to 
   the words 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

Ah yes, the KC Art Museum! One of the best in the country that I have seen! A 
magical place! 

There was a lot of wildlife and serenity at that CAE. You are the first person 
I have heard of who stayed there once it was completed! - I left when the 
building was 90% complete. If you passed a strawberry and apple juice stand 
coming into the property, on the left, that was my original living quarters, 
with six or seven other staffers. It was a cinder block garage that we put a 55 
gallon drum in the center of. We also had a cold water shower. 

In the winter, we would throw coal into the drum until it glowed red hot, to 
try to keep the garage and ourselves, warm. Slept fully clothed, with down 
jacket and boots, inside a down sleeping bag, and it was *still* cold. During 
the day we worked in below freezing temperatures on the building construction 
site. God help you if you tore a hole in your boot, and got your foot wet. Ate 
a lot of sub-par vegetarian grub. It was like living in Siberia. But I was 
young and strong, and there was great camaraderie amongst us serfs, so it was 
always more adventure, than hardship. Later as the building completed, we got 
to move into rooms there.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote:

 20 years ago me and my MA in SCI classmates and Ken and Wendy Cavanaugh 
 stayed at the Kansas City CAE.  Wendy took us to the wonderful art museum in 
 KC and Ken took his students to some monetary place.  The CAE was on a 
 beautiful piece of land and we decorated a Christmas tree and saw a herd of 
 deer running across the front lawn.  There was snow on the ground.  It was 
 quite wonderful (-:
 
snip 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

Just curious - I met him long after in Atlanta - he was a world class architect 
- I saw some of the homes he designed in Atlanta - made your jaw drop when you 
say them - some people used to say his homes had a angelic presence about them. 

Richard claimed to have been the one responsible for getting the wooden hand 
rail in the men's dome - he said he wanted it there for the senior citizens 
ability to walk up the stairs - Bevan and some others overruled him on the 
basis that a curved hand rail was custom work and would be too expensive - so 
Richard said he went behind their backs, ordered the rail without their 
knowledge and raided the petty cash fund to pay for it when it was delivered - 
he and a few others were installing it and the higher ups raised hell with him 
and threw him off the project, threw him off campus too I think but I am not 
sure about that.





 From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:03 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
Sorry, I don't remember him - I was on a support crew from the CAE project near 
Kansas City, so didn't get to know many of the guys doing the design. 

Probably my biggest regret from those days was while digging the foundation for 
the CAE near KC, I found a beautiful pre-Colombian axe head (verified by an 
archeologist on staff). A real treasure. Unfortunately, had no sense back then 
and gave it away after leaving. Oh well...

BTW, last time I google mapped the KC CAE, it is being torn down for scrap. Fun 
project while it lasted. Unfortunately, didn't survive the sthapatya veda 
craze, as it had a, gulp, south facing entrance. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard 
 Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect?
 
 
 
 
 
  From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 
 
   
 Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of 
 three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost 
 everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going 
 on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
 
 Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - 
 read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of 
 $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with 
 no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on 
 the walls though.:-)
 
 Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO 
 events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the 
 first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the 
 Taste of Utopia course in DC.
 
 Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad 
 nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant 
 hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except 
 for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't 
 lose money on many courses.
 
 So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and 
 Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths.
 
 After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and 
 continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the 
 time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS 
 in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself 
 into a normal, successful worldly life.
 
 If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot 
 out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when 
 they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-)
 
 The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any 
 other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote:
  
   The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than 
   any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history.
   
   this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'...
  
  Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the 
  most bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of themselves, 
  in the Movement whether it was in in the form of years, sweat, dedication 
  or belief. This was a cost on some level. When someone has put so much of 
  themselves

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[turquoiseb]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Just curious - I met him long after in Atlanta - he was a world
 class architect - I saw some of the homes he designed in Atlanta -
 made your jaw drop when you say them - some people used to
 say his homes had a angelic presence about them.

 Richard claimed to have been the one responsible for getting the
 wooden hand rail in the men's dome - he said he wanted it there
 for the senior citizens ability to walk up the stairs - Bevan and
 some others overruled him on the basis that a curved hand rail
 was custom work and would be too expensive - so Richard said
 he went behind their backs, ordered the rail without their
 knowledge and raided the petty cash fund to pay for it when it
 was delivered - he and a few others were installing it and the
 higher ups raised hell with him and threw him off the project,
 threw him off campus too I think but I am not sure about that.

Lovely story. I am just an architecture nut, and get off on not
only wonderfully-designed spaces, but the often equally wonder-
fully-designed stories of how they got that way.

In Santa Fe there was the Miraculous Staircase. It was located
within a small Catholic chapel, formerly a nunnery, nowadays
called the Loretto Chapel. The story goes like this. The order had
enough money to build the chapel, and even to build a choir loft
overlooking the chapel from which the more tuneful nuns could
sing. But they ran out of money before they could build an actual
way to *get to* this choir loft. So for years the nuns had to sing
from the back pews of the chapel itself.

Then one day some long-haired, bearded guy wanders by, leading
(no shit) a donkey and carrying a box of carpenter's tools, and asks
for a handout. Noticing that the choir loft lacks a staircase leading
to it, he offers to build it for them. They take him up on his offer.

The staircase to this day befuddles scientists. It is made from wood
not native to the area. It is constructed entirely organically, with no
nails or artificial elements keeping it together, only pegs carved from
the same wood as the stairs, and no apparent central support. And
then there's the question of what it fuckin' LOOKS LIKE, which is
this (the railing was added much later...the original staircase was
just the stairs you see in the photo):



Then, as the legend goes, the carpenter who build all of this just
fuckin'
disappears, without asking for payment. Naturally, the Catholics believe
that it was either St. Joseph, or Jesus himself. Me, I think it's a
better
story if it was just a wandering carpenter, someone who took pride in
doing a good job with whatever he built, such that it would bring joy
to other people.


 
  From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:03 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks


 Â
 Sorry, I don't remember him - I was on a support crew from the CAE
project near Kansas City, so didn't get to know many of the guys doing
the design.

 Probably my biggest regret from those days was while digging the
foundation for the CAE near KC, I found a beautiful pre-Colombian axe
head (verified by an archeologist on staff). A real treasure.
Unfortunately, had no sense back then and gave it away after leaving. Oh
well...

 BTW, last time I google mapped the KC CAE, it is being torn down for
scrap. Fun project while it lasted. Unfortunately, didn't survive the
sthapatya veda craze, as it had a, gulp, south facing entrance.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@
wrote:
 
  When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of
Richard Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an
architect?
 
 
 
 
  
   From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 
 
  ÂÂ
  Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a
total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well,
almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the
verge, from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0
 
  Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my
TMSP - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely
sum of $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in
mid-Winter with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the
*right* posters on the walls though.:-)
 
  Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some
key TMO events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome,
helped build the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of
Enlightenment. Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC.
 
  Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described
here ad nauseum

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of 
processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired 
also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many 
people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or become 
completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do.

I appreciate your posting these words.

I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you think 
of this part:


One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress
whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some
meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and no
unfoldment of true spiritual values. 
Haven't you ever
wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, especially
the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical
repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not opening
it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of
disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same
feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is
because they are disconnected from their hearts.

What do you think about this?





 From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? 

Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.

And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 
hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing technique 
that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders?  If I was not 
improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are leaders of a 
movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- 
or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES! 

Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? 

These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, so 
much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.

One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally walked 
over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and he too 
perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and leave his 
office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. 

I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net worth 
each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice to their 
wives. 

It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
$30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like that, 
the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!

And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege to 
the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia. 

This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human in 
that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand 
down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so who knows 
what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do with their 
money and how they treat their minions. 

And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished masses 
who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in gonzo 
business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for more cash 
EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at least ten times 
a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their gold turns the rich 
into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to approach the rich with 
anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They smell your beggary from 100 
feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out 
from the masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with.  
Vicious cycle that. 

Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used to 
good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is just 
not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological excitation, but I 
could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that. 

I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., right?  
The movement has never NEVER NEVER

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

Man that is gorgeous - thanks for posting it and the story - I wish Richard was 
still around to tell his stories - he passed away in Texas last year - in 
addition to his design skill he was a hell of a clarinet player till he lost 
hearing in one ear.

If you decide to read his obit here you will note his family said not one word 
about his former affiliation with the TMO

http://www.steedtodd.com/services.asp?page=odetailid=20328locid=18





 From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 2:56 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Just curious - I met him long after in Atlanta - he was a world 
 class architect - I saw some of the homes he designed in Atlanta - 
 made your jaw drop when you say them - some people used to 
 say his homes had a angelic presence about them. 
 
 Richard claimed to have been the one responsible for getting the 
 wooden hand rail in the men's dome - he said he wanted it there 
 for the senior citizens ability to walk up the stairs - Bevan and 
 some others overruled him on the basis that a curved hand rail 
 was custom work and would be too expensive - so Richard said 
 he went behind their backs, ordered the rail without their 
 knowledge and raided the petty cash fund to pay for it when it 
 was delivered - he and a few others were installing it and the 
 higher ups raised hell with him and threw him off the project, 
 threw him off campus too I think but I am not sure about that.

Lovely story. I am just an architecture nut, and get off on not
only wonderfully-designed spaces, but the often equally wonder-
fully-designed stories of how they got that way. 

In Santa Fe there was the Miraculous Staircase. It was located
within a small Catholic chapel, formerly a nunnery, nowadays 
called the Loretto Chapel. The story goes like this. The order had
enough money to build the chapel, and even to build a choir loft
overlooking the chapel from which the more tuneful nuns could
sing. But they ran out of money before they could build an actual
way to *get to* this choir loft. So for years the nuns had to sing 
from the back pews of the chapel itself. 

Then one day some long-haired, bearded guy wanders by, leading
(no shit) a donkey and carrying a box of carpenter's tools, and asks
for a handout. Noticing that the choir loft lacks a staircase leading 
to it, he offers to build it for them. They take him up on his offer.

The staircase to this day befuddles scientists. It is made from wood
not native to the area. It is constructed entirely organically, with no
nails or artificial elements keeping it together, only pegs carved from
the same wood as the stairs, and no apparent central support. And 
then there's the question of what it fuckin' LOOKS LIKE, which is 
this (the railing was added much later...the original staircase was
just the stairs you see in the photo):



Then, as the legend goes, the carpenter who build all of this just fuckin'
disappears, without asking for payment. Naturally, the Catholics believe
that it was either St. Joseph, or Jesus himself. Me, I think it's a better
story if it was just a wandering carpenter, someone who took pride in
doing a good job with whatever he built, such that it would bring joy 
to other people. 


 
  From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:03 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 
 
   
 Sorry, I don't remember him - I was on a support crew from the CAE project 
 near Kansas City, so didn't get to know many of the guys doing the design. 
 
 Probably my biggest regret from those days was while digging the foundation 
 for the CAE near KC, I found a beautiful pre-Colombian axe head (verified by 
 an archeologist on staff). A real treasure. Unfortunately, had no sense back 
 then and gave it away after leaving. Oh well...
 
 BTW, last time I google mapped the KC CAE, it is being torn down for scrap. 
 Fun project while it lasted. Unfortunately, didn't survive the sthapatya veda 
 craze, as it had a, gulp, south facing entrance. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard 
  Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect?
  
  
  
  
  
   From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
  
    
  Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total 
  of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost 
  everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 Man that is gorgeous - thanks for posting it and the story - I wish Richard 
 was still around to tell his stories - he passed away in Texas last year - in 
 addition to his design skill he was a hell of a clarinet player till he lost 
 hearing in one ear.
 
 If you decide to read his obit here you will note his family said not one 
 word about his former affiliation with the TMO

  From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

 ...In Santa Fe there was the Miraculous Staircase. It was located
 within a small Catholic chapel, formerly a nunnery, nowadays 
 called the Loretto Chapel. The story goes like this. The order had
 enough money to build the chapel, and even to build a choir loft
 overlooking the chapel from which the more tuneful nuns could
 sing. But they ran out of money before they could build an actual
 way to *get to* this choir loft. So for years the nuns had to sing 
 from the back pews of the chapel itself. 
 
 Then one day some long-haired, bearded guy wanders by, leading
 (no shit) a donkey and carrying a box of carpenter's tools, and asks
 for a handout. Noticing that the choir loft lacks a staircase leading 
 to it, he offers to build it for them. They take him up on his offer.
 
 The staircase to this day befuddles scientists. It is made from wood
 not native to the area. It is constructed entirely organically, with no
 nails or artificial elements keeping it together, only pegs carved from
 the same wood as the stairs, and no apparent central support. And 
 then there's the question of what it fuckin' LOOKS LIKE, which is 
 this (the railing was added much later...the original staircase was
 just the stairs you see in the photo):
 
 Then, as the legend goes, the carpenter who build all of this just fuckin'
 disappears, without asking for payment. Naturally, the Catholics believe
 that it was either St. Joseph, or Jesus himself. Me, I think it's a better
 story if it was just a wandering carpenter, someone who took pride in
 doing a good job with whatever he built, such that it would bring joy 
 to other people.

Some additional information (from snopes.com)

 However it came to be built, the solution to the problem at the Loretto Chapel 
was a winding staircase in the shape of a helix (which both takes up less space 
than a conventional stairway and is much more aesthetically appealing). 
Although winding staircases are somewhat tricky to build because the form is 
not well-suited to bearing weight and generally requires additional support, 
the one at Loretto is not quite the miracle of architecture that subsequent 
legend has made it out to be. 

 For starters, the Loretto staircase was apparently not all that fine a piece 
of work from a safety standpoint. It was originally built without a railing, 
presenting a steep descent that reportedly so frightened some of the nuns that 
they came down the stairway on their hands and knees. Not until several years 
later did another artisan (Phillip August Hesch) finally add a railing to the 
staircase. Moreover, the helix shape acted like what it resembles, a big 
spring, with many visitors reporting that the stairs moved up and down as they 
trod them. The structure has been closed to public access for several decades 
now, with various reasons (including a lack of suitable fire exits and 
preservation) given for the closure at different times, leading investigator 
Joe Nickell to note that There is reason to suspect that the staircase may be 
more unstable and, potentially, unsafe than some realize. 

 Although the Loretto legend maintains that engineers and scientists say that 
they cannot understand how this staircase can balance without any central 
support and that by all rights it should have long since collapsed into a pile 
of rubble, none of that is the case. Wood technologist Forrest N. Easley noted 
(as reported by the Skeptical Inquirer) that the staircase does have a central 
support, an inner wood stringer of such small radius that it functions as an 
almost solid pole. As well, Nickell observed when he visited Loretto in 1993 
that the structure includes an additional support, an iron brace or bracket 
that stabilizes the staircase by rigidly connecting the outer stringer to one 
of the columns that support the loft. Nickell concluded: It would thus appear 
that the Loretto staircase is subject to the laws of physics like any other. 

 As for the wood used in the stairway's construction, it has been identified as 
spruce, but not a large enough sample has been made available for wood analysts 
to determine which of the ten spruce species found in North America (and thus 
precisely where) it came from. That the structure may have built without the 
use of glue or nails is hardly remarkable †nails were often an unavailable 
or precious commodity to builders of earlier eras, who developed a number of 
techniques 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote 
[in response to Duveyoung]:

 Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of 
 processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired 
 also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many 
 people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or 
 become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do.
 
 I appreciate your posting these words.
 
 I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you think 
 of this part:
 
 One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
 of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress
 whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
 discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some
 meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and no
 unfoldment of true spiritual values. 
 Haven't you ever
 wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, especially
 the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical
 repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not opening
 it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of
 disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same
 feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is
 because they are disconnected from their hearts.
 
 What do you think about this?

While there are various explanations of how heart evolves (recall an earlier 
post by Card about some new TMO technique involving the heart), I read 
somewhere that Adyashanti described in general terms that enlightenment unfolds 
first for the mind (intellect), then the heart, and then the 'gut' (the latter 
being the release of an existential hold onto life), not that this happens to 
everybody in the same sequence or in clearly defined steps). This seems to 
parallel MMYs CC, GC, UC sequence. 

With TM we do not seem to get a lot of nitty gritty details about how this 
proceeds, or what kind of experiences one might go through. I mean, if one has 
a heart of stone, releasing that constriction might be very uncomfortable, 
because something perhaps very traumatic shut it down. Softening of the heart 
means some kind of devotion that cracks personal boundaries and fears. In the 
TMO this is idea seems to be forced in the direction of adulation and service 
to MMY, which is now impossible now that he is dead. One can be devoted to an 
image, an icon of MMY, a memory. But devotion is really just part of any path 
that one is focused on. You could be devoted to helping others, or devoted to 
being a more reasonable kind of person. You could be devoted to taking care of 
injured animals.

One thing is sure compassion is not quite the same as empathy or sympathy, 
which basically bleed you out into some other person's difficulties. To be 
useful to someone who is in dire straits and suffering because of their 
delusions or situation (say physical pain), it does no good to get caught up in 
their misery, you have to be there for them, and, at the same time not appear 
as some callous bastard. It has been suggested that doctors with poor bedside 
manners take acting lessons, to avoid these problems. But people who can just 
'be there' with you and make a person feel safe is perhaps best of all.

As I lay here under the influence of a winter illness, I thought I would see if 
anybody had written some cogent comparison of the two main forms of meditation, 
transcendental meditation, and mindfulness. I found the following discussion on 
a Buddhist web site. What I find remarkable about it is it displays no 
antagonism toward transcendental meditation, even though this is from a teacher 
of mindfulness meditation. This is in stark contrast to the TMO practice of 
always asserting the practice of TM is superior. In fact this author here 
acknowledges that TM is easier to learn. I find his comparison here really 
instructive.

'Many people in the West get their first exposure to meditation through what is 
know as TM or Transcendental Meditation. TM is essentially the classic mantra 
practice of India presented in a contemporary format, easily accessible to 
Westerners. Mindfulness meditation is another practice which is growing in 
popularity in Europe and North America. It is also known as Insight Meditation 
or Vipassana. As a teacher of Vipassana meditation, I am frequently asked about 
the relationship between mantra practice and mindfulness.

'On the surface they would seem to be very different, perhaps even 
antithetical. Typically in TM one leans back against a wall, withdraws from the 
phenomenal world and repeats a mantra to oneself for perhaps twenty minutes. 
It's relatively easy and usually brings immediate calming effects. In 
mindfulness practice one sits 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[feste37]

Just a quick reaction to this: just because people stop doing something doesn't 
necessarily mean it doesn't work or isn't doing them good. Exercise is a good 
example. How many people start exercise programs and discontinue them, even 
though they know it is good for them? With TM, you do have to make the time for 
it, and not everyone is willing to do that on a long-term basis. Also, the TM 
critics here seem to accept the idea that many long-term meditators are 
ineffective in life (as you put it). I'm not convinced of that at all. Recently 
Jerry Seinfeld was on ABC talking about his 40-year TM practice. Thousands of 
other very successful people are long-term TMers, and this association between 
ineffectiveness and long-term TM seems to me decidedly unproven and most 
probably untrue. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of 
 processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired 
 also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many 
 people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or 
 become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do.
 
 I appreciate your posting these words.
 
 I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you think 
 of this part:
 
 
 One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
 of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress
 whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
 discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some
 meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and no
 unfoldment of true spiritual values. 
 Haven't you ever
 wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, especially
 the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical
 repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not opening
 it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of
 disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same
 feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is
 because they are disconnected from their hearts.
 
 What do you think about this?
 
 
 
 
 
  From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 
   
 What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? 
 
 Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
 
 And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 
 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
 technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders?  
 If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
 leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
 they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES! 
 
 Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? 
 
 These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
 dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, so 
 much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
 
 One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
 something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
 walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
 he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and 
 leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. 
 
 I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
 worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice 
 to their wives. 
 
 It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
 $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like that, 
 the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!
 
 And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege 
 to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia. 
 
 This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human in 
 that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand 
 down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so who 
 knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do with 
 their money and how they treat their minions. 
 
 And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
 funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
 masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in 
 gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for more 
 cash EVERY

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote 
[in response to Duveyoung]:
 
  Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of 
  processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired 
  also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many 
  people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or 
  become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do.
  
  I appreciate your posting these words.
  
  I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you 
  think of this part:
  
  One other important point is that the mechanical repetition
  of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress
  whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
  discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some
  meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and 
  no
  unfoldment of true spiritual values. 
  Haven't you ever
  wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, 
  especially
  the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical
  repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not 
  opening
  it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of
  disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same
  feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is
  because they are disconnected from their hearts.
  
  What do you think about this?

 While there are various explanations of how heart evolves (recall an earlier 
post by Card about some new TMO technique involving the heart), I read 
somewhere that Adyashanti described in general terms that enlightenment unfolds 
first for the mind (intellect), then the heart, and then the 'gut' (the latter 
being the release of an existential hold onto life), not that this happens to 
everybody in the same sequence or in clearly defined steps). This seems to 
parallel MMYs CC, GC, UC sequence. 

 With TM we do not seem to get a lot of nitty gritty details about how this 
proceeds, or what kind of experiences one might go through. I mean, if one has 
a heart of stone, releasing that constriction might be very uncomfortable, 
because something perhaps very traumatic shut it down. Softening of the heart 
means some kind of devotion that cracks personal boundaries and fears. In the 
TMO this is idea seems to be forced in the direction of adulation and service 
to MMY, which is now impossible now that he is dead. One can be devoted to an 
image, an icon of MMY, a memory. But devotion is really just part of any path 
that one is focused on. You could be devoted to helping others, or devoted to 
being a more reasonable kind of person. You could be devoted to taking care of 
injured animals.

 One thing is sure compassion is not quite the same as empathy or sympathy, 
which basically bleed you out into some other person's difficulties. To be 
useful to someone who is in dire straits and suffering because of their 
delusions or situation (say physical pain), it does no good to get caught up in 
their misery, you have to be there for them, and, at the same time not appear 
as some callous bastard. It has been suggested that doctors with poor bedside 
manners take acting lessons, to avoid these problems. But people who can just 
'be there' with you and make a person feel safe is perhaps best of all.

 As I lay here under the influence of a winter illness, I thought I would see 
if anybody had written some cogent comparison of the two main forms of 
meditation, transcendental meditation, and mindfulness. I found the following 
discussion on a Buddhist web site. What I find remarkable about it is it 
displays no antagonism toward transcendental meditation, even though this is 
from a teacher of mindfulness meditation. This is in stark contrast to the TMO 
practice of always asserting the practice of TM is superior. In fact this 
author here acknowledges that TM is easier to learn. I find his comparison here 
really instructive.

 'Many people in the West get their first exposure to meditation through what 
is know as TM or Transcendental Meditation. TM is essentially the classic 
mantra practice of India presented in a contemporary format, easily accessible 
to Westerners. Mindfulness meditation is another practice which is growing in 
popularity in Europe and North America. It is also known as Insight Meditation 
or Vipassana. As a teacher of Vipassana meditation, I am frequently asked about 
the relationship between mantra practice and mindfulness.

 'On the surface they would seem to be very different, perhaps even 
antithetical. Typically in TM one leans back against a wall, withdraws from the 
phenomenal world and repeats a mantra to oneself for perhaps twenty minutes. 
It's relatively easy and usually brings immediate calming 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[mjackson74]

  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
   
  
    
  What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? 
  
  Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
  
  And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 
  44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
  technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? 
   If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
  leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
  they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES! 
  
  Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? 
  
  These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
  dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, 
  so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
  
  One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
  something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
  walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
  he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check 
  and leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. 
  
  I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
  worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice 
  to their wives. 
  
  It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
  $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like 
  that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!
  
  And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege 
  to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia. 
  
  This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human 
  in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to 
  sand down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so 
  who knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do 
  with their money and how they treat their minions. 
  
  And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
  funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
  masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment 
  in gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for 
  more cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at 
  least ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their 
  gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to 
  approach the rich with anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They 
  smell your beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, 
  because they are always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only 
  people like them to hob nob with.  Vicious cycle that. 
  
  Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used 
  to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is 
  just not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological 
  excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that. 
  
  I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
  Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
  right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
  clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
  discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
  money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
  respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's 
  machinations. 
  
  Here's one symbolic moment for me:  on teacher training, Maharishi had a 
  meeting that was sort of thrown together quickly in a very small venue 
  and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only 
  a 100 people in the room.  This rich guy planks his ass down right next to 
  Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of 
  listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the 
  words of Maharishi. 
  
  Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- 
  they knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the 
  movement, ya see?  Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever 
  touched Maharishi was Tat Walla Baba. 
  
  If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent 
  home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place.
  
  And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- 
  which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady asshole. 
  
  And that's the cause of all

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[raunchydog]

 no spiritual progress
   whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many
   discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some
   meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, 
   and no
   unfoldment of true spiritual values. 
   Haven't you ever
   wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, 
   especially
   the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical
   repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not 
   opening
   it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of
   disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same
   feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it 
   is
   because they are disconnected from their hearts.
   
   What do you think about this?
   
   
   
   
   
From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM
   Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

   
     
   What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? 
   
   Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
   
   And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 
   44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a 
   nothing technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the 
   movement's leaders?  If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, 
   then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a technique 
   that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES! 
   
   Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? 
   
   These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
   dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, 
   so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
   
   One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
   something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
   walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, 
   and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the 
   check and leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. 
   
   I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
   worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even 
   nice to their wives. 
   
   It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person 
   making $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the 
   streets.like that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself 
   real.  BAH!
   
   And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and 
   privilege to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et 
   alia. 
   
   This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human 
   in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to 
   sand down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, 
   so who knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what 
   they do with their money and how they treat their minions. 
   
   And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
   funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
   masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and 
   investment in gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on 
   their door for more cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for 
   donations by the TMO at least ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid 
   all that rush for their gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and 
   it shows when you try to approach the rich with anything but hey, try 
   the bean casserole.  They smell your beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on 
   that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out from the 
   masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with.  
   Vicious cycle that. 
   
   Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be 
   used to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other 
   techniques is just not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens 
   physiological excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain 
   that. 
   
   I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
   Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
   right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
   clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
   discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
   money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
   respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

that was hilarious - thanks for that - I needed a laugh today





 From: raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:52 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote:

 I have to argue with you on that - first of all I said not all, but a lot. Of 
 course not all long term TM'ers are ineffective in life, just at not all TM 
 teacher turn into unpleasant people like the TMO leaders often do - I have 
 for example praised Jerry Jarvis with whom I had limited interaction but for 
 his status in the Movement at the time he was a real fine fellow - he treated 
 me and the other meditators at the Atlanta Center very well - he was not 
 aloof, arrogant or dismissive of people who were not of his rank within the 
 Movement.
 
 On the opposite end of the scale I also had dealings with Gene Speigel, Susan 
 Humphries, Chris Crowell, Greg Wilson and his wife Georgina who were all 
 aloof, arrogant, unpleasant and Georgina W. looked me right dead in my eyes 
 and told me a flat out lie. The behavior of A LOT of long time TM'ers in 
 leadership roles is not what one would expect of ANYONE who did TM if TM had 
 the effect it is advertised to have.
 
 As a former MIU faulty member you cannot seriously deny the sloth and 
 inefficiency that existed in that place and in most Movement facilites - the 
 stories of this are legion - I am speaking from experience. I lived and and 
 dealt with it on a daily basis.
 
 I acknowledge that there are long time TM'ers who are successful like 
 Seinfeld. I don't know what it is that makes the phenomenon occur of the TM 
 walking dead - but please don't deny it exists. There are too many people who 
 post here who can vouch for the TM brain dead - having said that some of them 
 I like and had good friendships with. 
 

MJ: TM does not work as advertized.
RD: uh-huh...
MJ: I've seen walking dead people.
RD: uh-hun...continue...
MJ: Stories of their slothfulness are legion.
RD: How so?
MJ: They are brain dead.
RD: gasp I'm starting to get the picture.
MJ: Earl Kaplan says they are disconnected from their hearts.
RD: I've got it!
MJ: Got what?
RD: Zombies! You're talking about fucking Zombies!
MJ: You're full of shit.
RD: No, no, really. Listen, MJ we have to *do* something about this before it's 
too late.
MJ: Too late for what?
RD: The Zombie apocalypse.
MJ: You're starting to scare me.
RD: Don't you get it? Zombies eat brains! 
MJ: Yes! And TM makes you brain dead! OMG this is worse than I thought. 
RD: Exactly.
MJ: What should we do?
RD: Have dinner.
MJ: What?
RD: I'm thinking Fava beans and a nice Tuscan chianti. 

 But the point is that TM is SUPPOSED to lead to excellence in action it is 
 ADVERTISED to improve life in many respects including ones performance of 
 one's allotted duty so to speak and IF TM were truly the universal balm 
 universally appropriate for everyone with the same effect in everyone them we 
 should expect that everyone should do TM and become as successful as Jerry 
 Seinfeld and Clint Eastwood.
 
 TM proponents claim that TM leads to many physiological benefits like lower 
 blood pressure, improved heart functioning and so forth. Is it out of bounds 
 to assume that the mental/emotional and behavioral benefits advertised by the 
 TMO would also be universally seen in all populations that do TM? 
 
 Yet the benefits are not seen universally therefore I personally have no 
 choice but to conclude that TM does not perform as advertised.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote:
 
  Just a quick reaction to this: just because people stop doing something 
  doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work or isn't doing them good. Exercise 
  is a good example. How many people start exercise programs and discontinue 
  them, even though they know it is good for them? With TM, you do have to 
  make the time for it, and not everyone is willing to do that on a long-term 
  basis. Also, the TM critics here seem to accept the idea that many 
  long-term meditators are ineffective in life (as you put it). I'm not 
  convinced of that at all. Recently Jerry Seinfeld was on ABC talking about 
  his 40-year TM practice. Thousands of other very successful people are 
  long-term TMers, and this association between ineffectiveness and long-term 
  TM seems to me decidedly unproven and most probably untrue. 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote:
  
   Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process 
   of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have 
   tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do 
   so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like 
   asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
anartaxius@... wrote:

  'Most people find this much harder to do than the simple mantra practice; so 
 why bother? The answer to that question has many sides to it. I will only 
 discuss one here. But before I can do that, we need to first clarify an even 
 deeper way in which mantra and mindfulness are related. Because mantra is a 
 repetitive rhythm, it sets up periodic waves or vibrations in ones 
 consciousness. Let me try to explain this with a somewhat crude metaphor. You 
 are probably familiar with hand-held electrical vibrators that are used for 
 massage. Imagine the effect of holding such a vibrator in contact with the 
 surface of a pool of water. It would impart very regular pleasing patterns of 
 ripples throughout the water. Focusing on those patterns of ripples could 
 easily take you into a state of relaxation. This is one facet of how mantra 
 works. Its repetitive nature sets up rhythmic ripples throughout the 
 meditator's whole consciousness. The meditator then focuses on the regularity 
 of those ripples and rides them into deeper and deeper levels of relaxation, 
 concentration and integration.

Xeno, are you a TM-teacher ? I ask because just as laudable the attempt from 
the above Buddhist to explain what TM is and how it works, anyone with direct 
experiece knows the above is incorrect. But I applaude that he at least t

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[srijau]

There are women - Raj Rajeshwaris . 99 percent of what you read here is 
regurgitated fabrications. You can find out more in the Global Family Chat 
archives or by watching the broadcast most days if you are interested- channel 3

http://www.maharishichannel.in/index.php


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote:

 So what is the scoop with the Rajas? Only rich men? No Ranis? Are millionaire 
 women's money not good enough or are they too smart to wear those cheesy 
 costumes and give their money away to the TMO?
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote:
 
  What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion?  
  
  Of course I'm an asshole  -- everyone is.
  
  And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 
  44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing 
  technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? 
   If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are 
  leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so 
  they're frauds -- or, as I have said:  ASSHOLES!  
  
  Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded?  
  
  These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, 
  dismissive, and on and on.  Not always, but often.  Not to me personally, 
  so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW.
  
  One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing 
  something -- like a Nazi SS.  Which reminds me of this time I personally 
  walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and 
  he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check 
  and leave his office.  Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him.
  
  I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net 
  worth each.  All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice 
  to their wives.  
  
  It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone.  Even a person making 
  $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like 
  that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real.  BAH!
  
  And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege 
  to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia.  
  
  This was two decades ago -- who knows, I  have gotten better as a human 
  in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to 
  sand down a lot of their rough spots.  Humility can come in an instant, so 
  who knows what they've evolved into by now.  The acid test is what they do 
  with their money and how they treat their minions.  
  
  And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if 
  funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished 
  masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment 
  in gonzo business deals.  And the movement is knocking on their door for 
  more cash EVERY. DAY.  Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at 
  least ten times a year.  Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their 
  gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to 
  approach the rich with anything but hey, try the bean casserole.  They 
  smell your beggary from 100 feet away.  So, on that level, I pity them, 
  because they are always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only 
  people like them to hob nob with.  Vicious cycle that.  
  
  Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam.  The technique probably can be used 
  to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is 
  just not clear.  I'm all for anything that lessens physiological 
  excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that.  
  
  I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever  honored?  
  Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right?  Ask L.B., 
  right?  The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual 
  clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any 
  discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's 
  money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't 
  respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's 
  machinations. 
  
  Here's one symbolic moment for me:  on teacher training, Maharishi had a 
  meeting that was sort of thrown together quickly in a very small venue 
  and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only 
  a 100 people in the room.  This rich guy planks his ass down right next to 
  Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of 
  listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the 
  words of Maharishi.   
  
  Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- 
  they knew the master 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ 
 wrote:
 
   'Most people find this much harder to do than the simple mantra practice; 
  so why bother? The answer to that question has many sides to it. I will 
  only discuss one here. But before I can do that, we need to first clarify 
  an even deeper way in which mantra and mindfulness are related. Because 
  mantra is a repetitive rhythm, it sets up periodic waves or vibrations in 
  ones consciousness. Let me try to explain this with a somewhat crude 
  metaphor. You are probably familiar with hand-held electrical vibrators 
  that are used for massage. Imagine the effect of holding such a vibrator in 
  contact with the surface of a pool of water. It would impart very regular 
  pleasing patterns of ripples throughout the water. Focusing on those 
  patterns of ripples could easily take you into a state of relaxation. This 
  is one facet of how mantra works. Its repetitive nature sets up rhythmic 
  ripples throughout the meditator's whole consciousness. The meditator then 
  focuses on the regularity of those ripples and rides them into deeper and 
  deeper levels of relaxation, concentration and integration.
 
 Xeno, are you a TM-teacher ? I ask because just as laudable the attempt from 
 the above Buddhist to explain what TM is and how it works, anyone with direct 
 experience knows the above is incorrect. But I applaude that at least he 
 tries.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote:

 There are women - Raj Rajeshwaris . 99 percent of what you read here is 
 regurgitated fabrications. You can find out more in the Global Family Chat 
 archives or by watching the broadcast most days if you are interested- 
 channel 3
 

http://www.maharishichannel.in/index.php

When asked a question from FFL, Jerry Jarvis said he got all the information he 
needed from Maharishi Channel.
Wise man.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

I used to tune in sometimes, when MMY was still live, and really liked it when 
he got around to answering questions. However, occasionally it would be a full, 
excruciating hour of either Bevan or Hagelin. Like attending what you think is 
a concert by, say, Led Zeppelin, only to see, instead, at the last minute, a 
Led Zep *tribute* band.:-) 

On the other hand, from Maharishi TV, I somehow recorded the entire coronation 
of the rajas ceremony, primarily Vedic Hymns, and that is priceless to me. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  There are women - Raj Rajeshwaris . 99 percent of what you read here is 
  regurgitated fabrications. You can find out more in the Global Family Chat 
  archives or by watching the broadcast most days if you are interested- 
  channel 3
  
 
 http://www.maharishichannel.in/index.php
 
 When asked a question from FFL, Jerry Jarvis said he got all the information 
 he needed from Maharishi Channel.
 Wise man.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
 anartaxius@ wrote:
 
  'Most people find this much harder to do than the simple mantra practice; 
 so why bother? The answer to that question has many sides to it. I will 
 only discuss one here. But before I can do that, we need to first clarify 
 an even deeper way in which mantra and mindfulness are related. Because 
 mantra is a repetitive rhythm, it sets up periodic waves or vibrations in 
 ones consciousness. Let me try to explain this with a somewhat crude 
 metaphor. You are probably familiar with hand-held electrical vibrators 
 that are used for massage. Imagine the effect of holding such a vibrator in 
 contact with the surface of a pool of water. It would impart very regular 
 pleasing patterns of ripples throughout the water. Focusing on those 
 patterns of ripples could easily take you into a state of relaxation. This 
 is one facet of how mantra works. Its repetitive nature sets up rhythmic 
 ripples throughout the meditator's whole consciousness. The meditator then 
 focuses on the regularity of those ripples and rides them into deeper and 
 deeper levels of relaxation, concentration and integration.
  
  Xeno, are you a TM-teacher ? I ask because just as laudable the attempt 
  from the above Buddhist to explain what TM is and how it works, anyone with 
  direct experience knows the above is incorrect. But I applaude that at 
  least he tries.

Well, this is not how TM was explained to me, but it is someone else's attempt 
to understand it. This idea is nice, but I would say the part where he says the 
meditator 'focuses' is not correct. Most people who have not done TM tend to 
make that error of assuming there is some kind of focus. Actually there is, 
coming back to the mantra, but the aim is to make any adjustment in meditation 
as non focused as possible to avoid concentration, which you learn how from 
checking. However the idea of regularity of the ripples riding inward seems a 
plausible description, but it happens automatically, not by focus.

Another mindfulness advocate, Adyashanti also makes a similar error in 
describing mantra meditation (he does not seem to write directly of TM), yet 
interestingly when he describes meditation, it sounds nearly exactly like TM in 
being non-concentrative, relaxed, and letting go, just minus a mantra, and he 
does not mind if people are using a mantra, he does not seem to mind if people 
are doing different kinds of meditation as long as there are results.

There is always difficulty describing a mental process that is entirely 
experiential. In 1955 MMY referred to TM as 'mind control' though of course he 
did not mean control by virtue of force, but by virtue of a process that allows 
the mind to naturally collect itself. On the outer level however, in the TMO 
today and of yesterday, we see a lot of practices of mind control - not 
meditation - but systems that attempt to force conformity to various kinds of 
behaviour. Reminds me of George Orwell's novel 1984 with far more than a 
passing resemblance.

I have this idea that the 'purity of the teaching' is really just knowing how 
to completely let go, something every great spiritual sage seems to know, but 
strange to say, there seems to be a lot of structure surrounding getting 
someone to experience how. But another factor seems to arise in spiritual 
movements as a result of that necessity of some kind of structured teaching. 
And that is what I call 'purity of the learning'. Somehow, spiritual 
organisations deteriorate in a way that involves seeing learners as objects 
which must conform to a certain view of how they understand a teaching, and 
that view is the view that 'the management' collectively holds to be true. As 
time goes on, if the practice is working, people become freer on the inside, 
but find the environment of the spiritual philosophy becoming more and more 
rigid and irrational and controlling. This is what a lot of meditators feel 
about the TMO, TM is great but the TMO - yuk!

At some point this process of increasing rigidity and control implodes into the 
central tenets and practices for which the organisation was created and they 
become corrupted. So far TM, which is so very standarised in instruction has 
escaped this process. The increasing focus the organisation has on the memory 
and person of MMY though I think is a danger sign. Look what happened to Jesus. 
We do not know what he taught exactly. We know how the generations that 
followed viewed him and his mission, and if you compare the remaining records 
of what he supposedly said with the organisations that exist in his name today, 
the discrepancy is incredible.

It is said in the Bible that Jesus would baptise one into spirit, not water, as 
John before him. So what could that have been? Maybe 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[mjackson74]

Are you kidding? The schism has already taken place - there are former TM 
teachers all over the place who either teach their own brand of meditation or 
teach TM without the Movement and its re-certification which in my opinion 
was one of the sleazier moves M ever made - making tried and true teachers pay 
to get re-certified. I mean, Jerry Jarvis needs to get re-certified? March-y 
must-a needed to get one of his nephews a new gold Bently for his birthday.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
anartaxius@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
  anartaxius@ wrote:
  
   'Most people find this much harder to do than the simple mantra 
  practice; so why bother? The answer to that question has many sides to 
  it. I will only discuss one here. But before I can do that, we need to 
  first clarify an even deeper way in which mantra and mindfulness are 
  related. Because mantra is a repetitive rhythm, it sets up periodic waves 
  or vibrations in ones consciousness. Let me try to explain this with a 
  somewhat crude metaphor. You are probably familiar with hand-held 
  electrical vibrators that are used for massage. Imagine the effect of 
  holding such a vibrator in contact with the surface of a pool of water. 
  It would impart very regular pleasing patterns of ripples throughout the 
  water. Focusing on those patterns of ripples could easily take you into a 
  state of relaxation. This is one facet of how mantra works. Its 
  repetitive nature sets up rhythmic ripples throughout the meditator's 
  whole consciousness. The meditator then focuses on the regularity of 
  those ripples and rides them into deeper and deeper levels of relaxation, 
  concentration and integration.
   
   Xeno, are you a TM-teacher ? I ask because just as laudable the attempt 
   from the above Buddhist to explain what TM is and how it works, anyone 
   with direct experience knows the above is incorrect. But I applaude that 
   at least he tries.
 
 Well, this is not how TM was explained to me, but it is someone else's 
 attempt to understand it. This idea is nice, but I would say the part where 
 he says the meditator 'focuses' is not correct. Most people who have not done 
 TM tend to make that error of assuming there is some kind of focus. Actually 
 there is, coming back to the mantra, but the aim is to make any adjustment in 
 meditation as non focused as possible to avoid concentration, which you learn 
 how from checking. However the idea of regularity of the ripples riding 
 inward seems a plausible description, but it happens automatically, not by 
 focus.
 
 Another mindfulness advocate, Adyashanti also makes a similar error in 
 describing mantra meditation (he does not seem to write directly of TM), yet 
 interestingly when he describes meditation, it sounds nearly exactly like TM 
 in being non-concentrative, relaxed, and letting go, just minus a mantra, and 
 he does not mind if people are using a mantra, he does not seem to mind if 
 people are doing different kinds of meditation as long as there are results.
 
 There is always difficulty describing a mental process that is entirely 
 experiential. In 1955 MMY referred to TM as 'mind control' though of course 
 he did not mean control by virtue of force, but by virtue of a process that 
 allows the mind to naturally collect itself. On the outer level however, in 
 the TMO today and of yesterday, we see a lot of practices of mind control - 
 not meditation - but systems that attempt to force conformity to various 
 kinds of behaviour. Reminds me of George Orwell's novel 1984 with far more 
 than a passing resemblance.
 
 I have this idea that the 'purity of the teaching' is really just knowing how 
 to completely let go, something every great spiritual sage seems to know, but 
 strange to say, there seems to be a lot of structure surrounding getting 
 someone to experience how. But another factor seems to arise in spiritual 
 movements as a result of that necessity of some kind of structured teaching. 
 And that is what I call 'purity of the learning'. Somehow, spiritual 
 organisations deteriorate in a way that involves seeing learners as objects 
 which must conform to a certain view of how they understand a teaching, and 
 that view is the view that 'the management' collectively holds to be true. As 
 time goes on, if the practice is working, people become freer on the inside, 
 but find the environment of the spiritual philosophy becoming more and more 
 rigid and irrational and controlling. This is what a lot of meditators feel 
 about the TMO, TM is great but the TMO - yuk!
 
 At some point this process of increasing rigidity and control implodes into 
 the central tenets and practices for which the organisation was created and 
 they become corrupted. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote:

 when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's has been 
 for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has to resort to 
 things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi clan is the one that 
 has been single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the level of 
 manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and against anyone 
 they imagine to not support those ends is not something that I think you 
 understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the recent 
 revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into 
 that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually based on a lot of 
 baseless innuendo and there is public information to the contrary but you are 
 the sort of person who repeats lies so as to give them credibility.

Bingo !

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[srijau]

there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you are 
slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame Maharishi 
with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot from 
others. The fault is in yourself.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people who do it 
 is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to the utterly corrupt 
 practices on Wall Street that has led to a world wide economic crisis - where 
 is your proof of Gandhi clan corruption other than what you have heard and 
 read? 
 
 I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan flyer 
 articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on information and 
 judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who else lies, cheats and 
 steals it doesn't make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it too, 
 especially when they have been taking money under false pretenses for decades 
 and then can't even bring themselves to handle the wealth legitimately
 
 Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest behavior - the 
 kind of behavior that these people manifest show a low and selfish level of 
 consciousness and the kind of mentality that excuses it for the Marshy family 
 while reviling others in India for doing the same thing reminds me of the 
 character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the movie Gladiator.
 
 Show me the public information that shows without question that Maha was an 
 honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for nearly 60 years. Back up 
 what you say. 
 
 I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because what they 
 relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve that title) has the 
 ring of truth AND when you put all the stories together with public 
 statements and actions (like the scorpion nation episode) you see a 
 consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, horny, greedy 
 con artist who created a movement dedicated not to the enlightenment of the 
 world nor the betterment of the individual but to making himself an icon and 
 living a high and luxurious life. 
 
 You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless innuendo. 
 Like I said, back up your words - show us the public information showing that 
 Maharishi was an honest custodian of the funds he received for 57 years.
 
 All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are corrupt 
 and that is no excuse for personal or institutional corruption and 
 dishonesty. 
 
 
 
 
 
  From: srijau@... srijau@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 
   
 when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's has been 
 for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has to resort to 
 things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi clan is the one that 
 has been single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the level of 
 manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and against anyone 
 they imagine to not support those ends is not something that I think you 
 understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the recent 
 revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into 
 that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually based on a lot of 
 baseless innuendo and there is public information to the contrary but you are 
 the sort of person who repeats lies so as to give them credibility.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
  
  I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the organisation 
  over many years, but had no more to do with it after I got close to an 
  Indian working for the organisation at a senior level. He confided in me 
  that the top people close to Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during 
  his trips from Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they 
  pressured him and made him break down, threatening he would have no future 
  in the organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when 
  Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich!
  
  http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote:

 A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
 
 I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the organisation 
 over many years, but had no more to do with it after I got close to an Indian 
 working for the organisation at a senior level. He confided in me that the 
 top people close to Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during his trips 
 from Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they pressured him and 
 made him break down, threatening he would have no future in the organisation 
 if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when Maharishi was still 
 alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich!
 
 http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529


No one brought charges against Maharishi for smuggling gold. Hearsay is not 
proof.  

The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the obligation to shift the 
accepted conclusion away from an oppositional opinion to one's own position.

The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas 
probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: the 
necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.

He who does not carry the burden of proof carries the benefit of assumption, 
meaning he needs no evidence to support his claim. Fulfilling the burden of 
proof effectively captures the benefit of assumption, passing the burden of 
proof off to another party.

Wikipedia: Burden of Proof

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

I know very little, but I am certain that many crimes have been committed by 
the TMO.  It's a complete spectrum of silly to evil.

On one end is:  On my teacher training, some guy had a car accident and they 
sneaked him out of Spain before the cops could get him.  There were many tales 
of cash being illegally moved to other countries.  

On the other end:  Maharishi is said to told someone to drive fast and not care 
about the speed limits.  Maharishi gave everyone salt and peanuts on the 
courses even though it was wrong.  

Think about the mind-set of the MUM officials when that guy stabbed the other 
guy.  THAT'S HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- cover the movement's ass and save face 
AT ANY COST.

They all just did what they wanted to do and figured out words for it later.  
No morality.  No righteousness.  Just self-serving movement besmirching 
decisions is all.

It is all made-up on the spot.  I'll bet Maharishi decided on the first set of 
mantras in about 10 minutes flat.  

Edg


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote:

 there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you are 
 slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame Maharishi 
 with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot 
 from others. The fault is in yourself.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people who do 
  it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to the utterly 
  corrupt practices on Wall Street that has led to a world wide economic 
  crisis - where is your proof of Gandhi clan corruption other than what you 
  have heard and read? 
  
  I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan flyer 
  articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on information and 
  judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who else lies, cheats and 
  steals it doesn't make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it 
  too, especially when they have been taking money under false pretenses for 
  decades and then can't even bring themselves to handle the wealth 
  legitimately
  
  Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest behavior - 
  the kind of behavior that these people manifest show a low and selfish 
  level of consciousness and the kind of mentality that excuses it for the 
  Marshy family while reviling others in India for doing the same thing 
  reminds me of the character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the 
  movie Gladiator.
  
  Show me the public information that shows without question that Maha was an 
  honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for nearly 60 years. Back up 
  what you say. 
  
  I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because what 
  they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve that title) 
  has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories together with public 
  statements and actions (like the scorpion nation episode) you see a 
  consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, horny, greedy 
  con artist who created a movement dedicated not to the enlightenment of the 
  world nor the betterment of the individual but to making himself an icon 
  and living a high and luxurious life. 
  
  You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless innuendo. 
  Like I said, back up your words - show us the public information showing 
  that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the funds he received for 57 
  years.
  
  All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are 
  corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional corruption and 
  dishonesty. 
  
  
  
  
  
   From: srijau@ srijau@
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
   
  
    
  when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's has 
  been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has to 
  resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi clan is 
  the one that has been single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the 
  level of manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and against 
  anyone they imagine to not support those ends is not something that I think 
  you understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the recent 
  revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married 
  into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually based on a lot 
  of baseless innuendo and there is public information to the contrary but 
  you are the sort of person who repeats lies so as to give them credibility.
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:
  
   A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

Lord have mercy! That sounds like some thing I would have written - and I agree.





 From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:48 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  

I know very little, but I am certain that many crimes have been committed by 
the TMO.  It's a complete spectrum of silly to evil.

On one end is:  On my teacher training, some guy had a car accident and they 
sneaked him out of Spain before the cops could get him.  There were many tales 
of cash being illegally moved to other countries. 

On the other end:  Maharishi is said to told someone to drive fast and not care 
about the speed limits.  Maharishi gave everyone salt and peanuts on the 
courses even though it was wrong. 

Think about the mind-set of the MUM officials when that guy stabbed the other 
guy.  THAT'S HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- cover the movement's ass and save face 
AT ANY COST.

They all just did what they wanted to do and figured out words for it later.  
No morality.  No righteousness.  Just self-serving movement besmirching 
decisions is all.

It is all made-up on the spot.  I'll bet Maharishi decided on the first set of 
mantras in about 10 minutes flat. 

Edg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote:

 there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you are 
 slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame Maharishi 
 with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot 
 from others. The fault is in yourself.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people who do 
  it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to the utterly 
  corrupt practices on Wall Street that has led to a world wide economic 
  crisis - where is your proof of Gandhi clan corruption other than what you 
  have heard and read? 
  
  I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan flyer 
  articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on information and 
  judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who else lies, cheats and 
  steals it doesn't make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it 
  too, especially when they have been taking money under false pretenses for 
  decades and then can't even bring themselves to handle the wealth 
  legitimately
  
  Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest behavior - 
  the kind of behavior that these people manifest show a low and selfish 
  level of consciousness and the kind of mentality that excuses it for the 
  Marshy family while reviling others in India for doing the same thing 
  reminds me of the character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the 
  movie Gladiator.
  
  Show me the public information that shows without question that Maha was an 
  honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for nearly 60 years. Back up 
  what you say. 
  
  I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because what 
  they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve that title) 
  has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories together with public 
  statements and actions (like the scorpion nation episode) you see a 
  consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, horny, greedy 
  con artist who created a movement dedicated not to the enlightenment of the 
  world nor the betterment of the individual but to making himself an icon 
  and living a high and luxurious life. 
  
  You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless innuendo. 
  Like I said, back up your words - show us the public information showing 
  that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the funds he received for 57 
  years.
  
  All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are 
  corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional corruption and 
  dishonesty. 
  
  
  
  
  
   From: srijau@ srijau@
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
  
    
  when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's has 
  been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has to 
  resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi clan is 
  the one that has been single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the 
  level of manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and against 
  anyone they imagine to not support those ends is not something that I think 
  you understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the recent 
  revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married 
  into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
  
  I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the organisation 
  over many years, but had no more to do with it after I got close to an 
  Indian working for the organisation at a senior level. He confided in me 
  that the top people close to Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during 
  his trips from Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they 
  pressured him and made him break down, threatening he would have no future 
  in the organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when 
  Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich!
  
  http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
 
 
 No one brought charges against Maharishi for smuggling gold. Hearsay is not 
 proof.  

Quite so. Something for which we should all be immensely grateful.

Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat; cum per rerum
naturam factum negantis probatio nulla sit

I live in the UK. Here employment law does not follow this 
principle. That is quite some shock when you come up against
it. As a small business owner/manager you can suddenly find
yourself 'in the dock' without this ancient guarantor of your
rights (i.e having to *prove* your innocence). Quite disturbing.
I once employed a fruitcake who accused me of 'touching her up'
(and this person accused others of other dramatic violations,
e.g. racist abuse). So now I *really* appreciate the importance 
and value of innocent until proved guilty. And I'm inclined
to thank my lucky stars no one has yet realised what a wonderful
guru I could be, and come knocking on my door and putting me on
a grand pedestal (as per MMY/MJ?). Crucifixion isn't the half
of it. It is a racing certainty that the fruitcakes will gravitate
to anyone with an ounce of charisma (like moths to the flame that
obscure the light) and create mayhem. My MMY predicted as much.

How awful it must be to have to cope with TB fanatical followers
and their inevitable disappointment.
 
 The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the obligation to shift the 
 accepted conclusion away from an oppositional opinion to one's own position.
 
 The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper 
 necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems 
 to be: the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.
 
 He who does not carry the burden of proof carries the benefit of assumption, 
 meaning he needs no evidence to support his claim. Fulfilling the burden of 
 proof effectively captures the benefit of assumption, passing the burden of 
 proof off to another party.
 
 Wikipedia: Burden of Proof

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote:

 there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you are 
 slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame Maharishi 
 with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot 
 from others. The fault is in yourself.


The higher you are the more people want to bring you down.
-Benjamin Creme

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

Some of your assertions seem suspect to me. Like crazy people flocking to the 
supposedly enlightened or as you say those with an oz of charisma. If he were 
so sattvic and enlightened, no crazy people could get within a mile of him - 
they wouldn't be able to stand the purity. That's the way it works - so if he 
said they would flock sounds to me like a fraud knowing what kind of energy 
he's putting out

So going by your example we are to ignore the testimony of the skin boys who 
witnessed him chasing women right and left and also saw first hand the 
financial manipulations? Go ahead and keep your fantasy of who you believe he 
was - he's only been dead a few years - as time goes by more and more truth 
will surface until only the truly die hard TM fanatics will ever believe he was 
anything other than a top notch con artist. 





 From: PaliGap compost...@yahoo.co.uk
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:06 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:
 
  A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
  
  I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the organisation 
  over many years, but had no more to do with it after I got close to an 
  Indian working for the organisation at a senior level. He confided in me 
  that the top people close to Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during 
  his trips from Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they 
  pressured him and made him break down, threatening he would have no future 
  in the organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when 
  Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich!
  
  http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
 
 
 No one brought charges against Maharishi for smuggling gold. Hearsay is not 
 proof. 

Quite so. Something for which we should all be immensely grateful.

Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat; cum per rerum
naturam factum negantis probatio nulla sit

I live in the UK. Here employment law does not follow this 
principle. That is quite some shock when you come up against
it. As a small business owner/manager you can suddenly find
yourself 'in the dock' without this ancient guarantor of your
rights (i.e having to *prove* your innocence). Quite disturbing.
I once employed a fruitcake who accused me of 'touching her up'
(and this person accused others of other dramatic violations,
e.g. racist abuse). So now I *really* appreciate the importance 
and value of innocent until proved guilty. And I'm inclined
to thank my lucky stars no one has yet realised what a wonderful
guru I could be, and come knocking on my door and putting me on
a grand pedestal (as per MMY/MJ?). Crucifixion isn't the half
of it. It is a racing certainty that the fruitcakes will gravitate
to anyone with an ounce of charisma (like moths to the flame that
obscure the light) and create mayhem. My MMY predicted as much.

How awful it must be to have to cope with TB fanatical followers
and their inevitable disappointment.

 The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the obligation to shift the 
 accepted conclusion away from an oppositional opinion to one's own position.
 
 The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper 
 necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems 
 to be: the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.
 
 He who does not carry the burden of proof carries the benefit of assumption, 
 meaning he needs no evidence to support his claim. Fulfilling the burden of 
 proof effectively captures the benefit of assumption, passing the burden of 
 proof off to another party.
 
 Wikipedia: Burden of Proof



 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

Well that means a lot of other people here on FFL are telling these lies too so 
I don't feel so lonely - many of the things I have discussed here is based on 
what I have seen here. But if you want to single me out as the only one who 
makes such statements be my guest.

only it isn't defaming if its true, I find no fault in myself for being willing 
to face truth 

and Benjy Creme is about as full of it as it comes





 From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:08 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote:

 there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you are 
 slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame Maharishi 
 with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot 
 from others. The fault is in yourself.

The higher you are the more people want to bring you down.
-Benjamin Creme


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[feste37]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote:

 
 I know very little, but I am certain that many crimes have been committed by 
 the TMO. 

LOL!! If you know very little, how can you be certain of anything?




 It's a complete spectrum of silly to evil.
 
 On one end is:  On my teacher training, some guy had a car accident and they 
 sneaked him out of Spain before the cops could get him.  There were many 
 tales of cash being illegally moved to other countries.  
 
 On the other end:  Maharishi is said to told someone to drive fast and not 
 care about the speed limits.  Maharishi gave everyone salt and peanuts on the 
 courses even though it was wrong.  
 
 Think about the mind-set of the MUM officials when that guy stabbed the other 
 guy.  THAT'S HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- cover the movement's ass and save face 
 AT ANY COST.
 
 They all just did what they wanted to do and figured out words for it 
 later.  No morality.  No righteousness.  Just self-serving movement 
 besmirching decisions is all.
 
 It is all made-up on the spot.  I'll bet Maharishi decided on the first set 
 of mantras in about 10 minutes flat.  
 
 Edg
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote:
 
  there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you 
  are slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame 
  Maharishi with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that 
  you parrot from others. The fault is in yourself.
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote:
  
   the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people who 
   do it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to the utterly 
   corrupt practices on Wall Street that has led to a world wide economic 
   crisis - where is your proof of Gandhi clan corruption other than what 
   you have heard and read? 
   
   I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan flyer 
   articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on information and 
   judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who else lies, cheats and 
   steals it doesn't make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it 
   too, especially when they have been taking money under false pretenses 
   for decades and then can't even bring themselves to handle the wealth 
   legitimately
   
   Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest behavior - 
   the kind of behavior that these people manifest show a low and selfish 
   level of consciousness and the kind of mentality that excuses it for the 
   Marshy family while reviling others in India for doing the same thing 
   reminds me of the character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the 
   movie Gladiator.
   
   Show me the public information that shows without question that Maha was 
   an honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for nearly 60 years. 
   Back up what you say. 
   
   I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because what 
   they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve that title) 
   has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories together with 
   public statements and actions (like the scorpion nation episode) you see 
   a consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, horny, 
   greedy con artist who created a movement dedicated not to the 
   enlightenment of the world nor the betterment of the individual but to 
   making himself an icon and living a high and luxurious life. 
   
   You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless 
   innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public 
   information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the funds 
   he received for 57 years.
   
   All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are 
   corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional corruption 
   and dishonesty. 
   
   
   
   
   
From: srijau@ srijau@
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
   Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

   
     
   when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's has 
   been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has to 
   resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi clan is 
   the one that has been single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the 
   level of manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and 
   against anyone they imagine to not support those ends is not something 
   that I think you understand. If you were an Indian you would especially 
   given the recent revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain 
   person who married into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is 
   actually based on a lot of baseless innuendo and there is public

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[PaliGap]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote:

 Some of your assertions seem suspect to me. Like crazy people flocking to the 
 supposedly enlightened or as you say those with an oz of charisma. If he were 
 so sattvic and enlightened, no crazy people could get within a mile of him - 
 they wouldn't be able to stand the purity. That's the way it works - 

You *know* that? How?

It seems to me much more natural that the positive should 
attract the negative. The old 'cosmic balance' thing and 
all that.

 so if he said they would flock sounds to me like a fraud knowing what kind of 
 energy he's putting out
 
 So going by your example we are to ignore the testimony of the
 skin boys who witnessed him chasing women right and left 

Not at all. Did I say that? But it's sensible to retain
your critical faculties over all testimony, no? I have 
read JB - I don't see *him chasing women right and left*.
It seemed to me to be a love story. Frankly I'm not sure
I'd care if he did anyway.

He has lovely skin. Poor man, no sex.' Brian Blessed on the
Dalai Lame. What a waste?

and also saw first hand the financial manipulations? 

If true, could that not be established in court? 

Go ahead and keep your fantasy of who you believe he was - he's only been dead 
a few years - as time goes by more and more truth will surface until only the 
truly die hard TM fanatics will ever believe he was anything other than a top 
notch con artist. 

Could it be the world is not so starkly black and white as
you portray? Perhaps even... relative? 

I think I am a stranger to MMY TB. I think you are
not. The negation of the negation as they say...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

 - show us the public 
information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the funds 
he received for 57 years.

All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are 
corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional corruption 
and dishonesty. 





 From: srijau@ srijau@
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's 
has been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has 
to resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi 
clan is the one that has been single mindedly engaged in 
self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all facets of 
government to their ends and against anyone they imagine to not support 
those ends is not something that I think you understand. If you were an 
Indian you would especially given the recent revelations of the 
miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into that family. 
Whatever you claim otherwise is actually based on a lot of baseless 
innuendo and there is public information to the contrary but you are 
the sort of person who repeats lies so as to give them credibility.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote:

 A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
 
 I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the 
 organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after I 
 got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior 
 level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi had 
 asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and USA back 
 to India!! When he refused they pressured him and made him break 
 down, threatening he would have no future in the organisation if he 
 didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when Maharishi was still 
 alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich!
 
 http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529

   
  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[doctordumbass]

 the public information that shows without question that Maha 
 was an honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for nearly 60 
 years. Back up what you say. 
 
 I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because 
 what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve 
 that title) has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories 
 together with public statements and actions (like the scorpion nation 
 episode) you see a consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly 
 egotistical, horny, greedy con artist who created a movement 
 dedicated not to the enlightenment of the world nor the betterment of 
 the individual but to making himself an icon and living a high and 
 luxurious life. 
 
 You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless 
 innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public 
 information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the 
 funds he received for 57 years.
 
 All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are 
 corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional 
 corruption and dishonesty. 
 
 
 
 
 
  From: srijau@ srijau@
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 
   
 when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's 
 has been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one 
 has to resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The 
 Gandhi clan is the one that has been single mindedly engaged in 
 self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all facets of 
 government to their ends and against anyone they imagine to not 
 support those ends is not something that I think you understand. If 
 you were an Indian you would especially given the recent revelations 
 of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into 
 that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually based on a lot 
 of baseless innuendo and there is public information to the contrary 
 but you are the sort of person who repeats lies so as to give them 
 credibility.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ 
 wrote:
 
  A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
  
  I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the 
  organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after I 
  got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior 
  level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi had 
  asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and USA back 
  to India!! When he refused they pressured him and made him break 
  down, threatening he would have no future in the organisation if he 
  didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when Maharishi was still 
  alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich!
  
  http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
 

   
  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[mjackson74]

 people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because 
 what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve 
 that title) has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories 
 together with public statements and actions (like the scorpion nation 
 episode) you see a consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly 
 egotistical, horny, greedy con artist who created a movement 
 dedicated not to the enlightenment of the world nor the betterment of 
 the individual but to making himself an icon and living a high and 
 luxurious life. 
 
 You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless 
 innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public 
 information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the 
 funds he received for 57 years.
 
 All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are 
 corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional 
 corruption and dishonesty. 
 
 
 
 
 
  From: srijau@ srijau@
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
  
 
   
 when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's 
 has been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one 
 has to resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The 
 Gandhi clan is the one that has been single mindedly engaged in 
 self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all facets of 
 government to their ends and against anyone they imagine to not 
 support those ends is not something that I think you understand. If 
 you were an Indian you would especially given the recent revelations 
 of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into 
 that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually based on a lot 
 of baseless innuendo and there is public information to the contrary 
 but you are the sort of person who repeats lies so as to give them 
 credibility.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ 
 wrote:
 
  A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
  
  I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the 
  organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after I 
  got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior 
  level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi had 
  asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and USA back 
  to India!! When he refused they pressured him and made him break 
  down, threatening he would have no future in the organisation if he 
  didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when Maharishi was still 
  alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich!
  
  http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
 

   
  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[turquoiseb]

.  No morality.  No righteousness.  Just self-serving movement 
besmirching decisions is all.

It is all made-up on the spot.  I'll bet Maharishi decided on the first 
set of mantras in about 10 minutes flat.  

Edg


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote:

 there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement 
 you are slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you 
 defame Maharishi with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of 
 wrongdoing that you parrot from others. The fault is in yourself.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ 
 wrote:
 
  the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people 
  who do it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to 
  the utterly corrupt practices on Wall Street that has led to a 
  world wide economic crisis - where is your proof of Gandhi clan 
  corruption other than what you have heard and read? 
  
  I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan 
  flyer articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on 
  information and judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who 
  else lies, cheats and steals it doesn't make it alright for 
  Maharishi and his family to do it too, especially when they have 
  been taking money under false pretenses for decades and then can't 
  even bring themselves to handle the wealth legitimately
  
  Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest 
  behavior - the kind of behavior that these people manifest show a 
  low and selfish level of consciousness and the kind of mentality 
  that excuses it for the Marshy family while reviling others in 
  India for doing the same thing reminds me of the character of the 
  Emperor Commodus as depicted in the movie Gladiator.
  
  Show me the public information that shows without question that 
  Maha was an honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for 
  nearly 60 years. Back up what you say. 
  
  I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because 
  what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve 
  that title) has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories 
  together with public statements and actions (like the scorpion 
  nation episode) you see a consistent picture of an egotistical, 
  childishly egotistical, horny, greedy con artist who created a 
  movement dedicated not to the enlightenment of the world nor the 
  betterment of the individual but to making himself an icon and 
  living a high and luxurious life. 
  
  You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless 
  innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public 
  information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the 
  funds he received for 57 years.
  
  All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them 
  are corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional 
  corruption and dishonesty. 
  
  
  
  
  
   From: srijau@ srijau@
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
   
  
    
  when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like 
  India's has been for some time then it should come as no surprise 
  that one has to resort to things like smuggling gold into the 
  country. The Gandhi clan is the one that has been single mindedly 
  engaged in self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all 
  facets of government to their ends and against anyone they imagine 
  to not support those ends is not something that I think you 
  understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the 
  recent revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person 
  who married into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is 
  actually based on a lot of baseless innuendo and there is public 
  information to the contrary but you are the sort of person who 
  repeats lies so as to give them credibility.
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ 
  wrote:
  
   A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
   
   I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the 
   organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after 
   I got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior 
   level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi 
   had asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and 
   USA back to India!! When he refused

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[mjackson74]

 
   are corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional 
   corruption and dishonesty. 
   
   
   
   
   
From: srijau@ srijau@
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
   Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin 
   Folks

   
     
   when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like 
   India's has been for some time then it should come as no surprise 
   that one has to resort to things like smuggling gold into the 
   country. The Gandhi clan is the one that has been single mindedly 
   engaged in self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all 
   facets of government to their ends and against anyone they 
   imagine to not support those ends is not something that I think 
   you understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given 
   the recent revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain 
   person who married into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise 
   is actually based on a lot of baseless innuendo and there is 
   public information to the contrary but you are the sort of person 
   who repeats lies so as to give them credibility.
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ 
   wrote:
   
A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico

I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the 
organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it 
after I got close to an Indian working for the organisation at 
a senior level. He confided in me that the top people close to 
Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from 
Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they pressured 
him and made him break down, threatening he would have no 
future in the organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back 
in the 90's when Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the 
movement in India is rich!

http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
   
  
 

   
  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote:

 snippus interruptus
 So when folks like the current version of myself come along 
 and say hey! Who IS that man behind the curtain the object 
 referral people feel their very soul identity is being 
 called into question.
 
 Some people here may find it offensive but drawing on my 
 Southern heritage, the rednecks I was raised with could not 
 imagine a world where white men were not superior to blacks. 
 As my daddy said once, you work with 'em, you tolerate 'em 
 but you don't socialize with them.
 
 Any idea of racial equality truly threatened their self 
 identity that depended on belief of whites as a superior 
 race and you could in some places I have been in the past 
 get your ass kicked for offering any other opinion on the 
 subject.

I grew up in the South, too, so I can identify with 
your metaphor. Possibly being older than you, I grew
up in an environment in which every restaurant had
two water fountains and four bathrooms, one set of 
each for white and colored. 

My parents -- bless them -- didn't think this way.
They thought more along the lines that your daddy
did, and I kinda caught their 'tude from them. I 
was once thrown off of a city bus at age ten or so
for wanting to sit in the back row of the bus. I 
liked it back there; it was spacious and one could
stretch out and enjoy oneself. But I was white. The
back of the bus was for coloreds. 

The driver literally stopped the bus, got up, walked
back to the back of the bus and threw me off. The
coloreds I'd been having a fine time with waved
at me as the bus pulled away. None of the white 
folks did. 

I think the metaphor extends to spiritual traditions.
People *get used to shit*. Whether that shit is the
caste system in India or governors being better
than mere meditators, it's all shit. Once they
buy into defending the shit, they don't like being
told that it's shit. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Michael Jackson]

You are right again! Also I do barely remember the separate bathrooms and 
drinking fountains - there were some places in the South that took a while to 
get rid of them - where did you grow up, if I may ask?





 From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 5:13 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote:

 snippus interruptus
 So when folks like the current version of myself come along 
 and say hey! Who IS that man behind the curtain the object 
 referral people feel their very soul identity is being 
 called into question.
 
 Some people here may find it offensive but drawing on my 
 Southern heritage, the rednecks I was raised with could not 
 imagine a world where white men were not superior to blacks. 
 As my daddy said once, you work with 'em, you tolerate 'em 
 but you don't socialize with them.
 
 Any idea of racial equality truly threatened their self 
 identity that depended on belief of whites as a superior 
 race and you could in some places I have been in the past 
 get your ass kicked for offering any other opinion on the 
 subject.

I grew up in the South, too, so I can identify with 
your metaphor. Possibly being older than you, I grew
up in an environment in which every restaurant had
two water fountains and four bathrooms, one set of 
each for white and colored. 

My parents -- bless them -- didn't think this way.
They thought more along the lines that your daddy
did, and I kinda caught their 'tude from them. I 
was once thrown off of a city bus at age ten or so
for wanting to sit in the back row of the bus. I 
liked it back there; it was spacious and one could
stretch out and enjoy oneself. But I was white. The
back of the bus was for coloreds. 

The driver literally stopped the bus, got up, walked
back to the back of the bus and threw me off. The
coloreds I'd been having a fine time with waved
at me as the bus pulled away. None of the white 
folks did. 

I think the metaphor extends to spiritual traditions.
People *get used to shit*. Whether that shit is the
caste system in India or governors being better
than mere meditators, it's all shit. Once they
buy into defending the shit, they don't like being
told that it's shit. 


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks

[Duveyoung]

 from others. The fault is in yourself.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ 
 wrote:
 
  the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people 
  who do it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to 
  the utterly corrupt practices on Wall Street that has led to a 
  world wide economic crisis - where is your proof of Gandhi clan 
  corruption other than what you have heard and read? 
  
  I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan 
  flyer articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on 
  information and judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who 
  else lies, cheats and steals it doesn't make it alright for 
  Maharishi and his family to do it too, especially when they have 
  been taking money under false pretenses for decades and then can't 
  even bring themselves to handle the wealth legitimately
  
  Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest 
  behavior - the kind of behavior that these people manifest show a 
  low and selfish level of consciousness and the kind of mentality 
  that excuses it for the Marshy family while reviling others in 
  India for doing the same thing reminds me of the character of the 
  Emperor Commodus as depicted in the movie Gladiator.
  
  Show me the public information that shows without question that 
  Maha was an honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for 
  nearly 60 years. Back up what you say. 
  
  I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because 
  what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve 
  that title) has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories 
  together with public statements and actions (like the scorpion 
  nation episode) you see a consistent picture of an egotistical, 
  childishly egotistical, horny, greedy con artist who created a 
  movement dedicated not to the enlightenment of the world nor the 
  betterment of the individual but to making himself an icon and 
  living a high and luxurious life. 
  
  You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless 
  innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public 
  information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the 
  funds he received for 57 years.
  
  All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them 
  are corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional 
  corruption and dishonesty. 
  
  
  
  
  
   From: srijau@ srijau@
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
   
  
    
  when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like 
  India's has been for some time then it should come as no surprise 
  that one has to resort to things like smuggling gold into the 
  country. The Gandhi clan is the one that has been single mindedly 
  engaged in self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all 
  facets of government to their ends and against anyone they imagine 
  to not support those ends is not something that I think you 
  understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the 
  recent revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person 
  who married into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is 
  actually based on a lot of baseless innuendo and there is public 
  information to the contrary but you are the sort of person who 
  repeats lies so as to give them credibility.
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ 
  wrote:
  
   A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico
   
   I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the 
   organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after 
   I got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior 
   level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi 
   had asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and 
   USA back to India!! When he refused they pressured him and made 
   him break down, threatening he would have no future in the 
   organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when 
   Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the movement in India is 
   rich!
   
   http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529