Re: [Frameworks] Beaulieu 4008ZM4 Super 8 silent camera

[Fred Camper]

Thank you, but I only really want to sell it if it works. I will look 
into checking it. These seem to go for over $500 working with a good 
zoom, and I have an excellent one.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 9/4/2020 2:47 PM, Dominic Angerame wrote:

Hi Fred if it was mine, I would sell as is, unless u want to take the time to 
buy batteries a roll of film and shoot. I still shoot celluloid it could be 
fun. Let me know if u want to sell as is, I may be interested depending on 
price I am collecting unemployment, we had no retirement at Canyon so price is 
a concern.

d


On Sep 4, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Fred Camper  wrote:

I have one of these that I have not used in decades. Worked fine in the 1980s! 
Great camera. Anyway, it seems rather ecologically incorrect to just store it 
when someone else might use it, so I wnt to try to sell it. But first I need to 
make sure it runs OK. Obviously the batteries it came with no longer function. 
Does anyone have any experience with this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beaulieu-4008-Replacement-Battery-Pack-with-Charger-Model-Mk-II/254624493578?hash=item3b48cd700a:g:FqEAAOSw7qdZ613N

or have a better solution? My idea is to take a chance on buying a battery in 
the hope that the camera works, and then try to sell it -- or try to sell it 
for almost nothing even if it doesn't work, for display as a living room museum 
piece?

Fred Camper
Chicago
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[Frameworks] Beaulieu 4008ZM4 Super 8 silent camera

[Fred Camper]

I have one of these that I have not used in decades. Worked fine in the 
1980s! Great camera. Anyway, it seems rather ecologically incorrect to 
just store it when someone else might use it, so I wnt to try to sell 
it. But first I need to make sure it runs OK. Obviously the batteries it 
came with no longer function. Does anyone have any experience with this:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beaulieu-4008-Replacement-Battery-Pack-with-Charger-Model-Mk-II/254624493578?hash=item3b48cd700a:g:FqEAAOSw7qdZ613N

or have a better solution? My idea is to take a chance on buying a 
battery in the hope that the camera works, and then try to sell it -- or 
try to sell it for almost nothing even if it doesn't work, for display 
as a living room museum piece?


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] Trump Virus

[Fred Camper]

On 3/28/2020 6:40 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:


Let's not, it's world-wide and giving it that name taints everything.

- Alan


Yes,

Let's not even discuss him here.

When expressing opinions about him elsewhere, I try to never use his 
name. I also try to avoid insults in his style, though some are quire 
fun, "The Orange Monster" and the like. I use 'the current American 
president," "the current occupant," or similar. He profits, in a sense, 
with every mention of his "brand." And we should not turn FrameWorks 
into a political discussion group, or we could be swamped. There are 
other places for that.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] copyright question

[Fred Camper]

This sounds /very /dubious and highly unlikely. How can you be sure "it" 
is North Korean TV? Also, there are probably sanctions laws on doing 
business with North Korea. You don't want to wind up in Gitmo, right?


If it's a scam, please let us all know. Hint: if they want you to pay 
some kind of fee first, it is a scam.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 3/12/2020 8:48 PM, christopher nigel wrote:

I would find out. what there would like too use it for ?
before you make any kind of a agreement as could back fire on you in
this age of paranoid .

Christopher

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 7:00 PM Myron Ort  wrote:

Believe it or not I was contacted by N. Korean TV who wanted to use 5 seconds 
from one  of my films. What might be a customary fee and is my granting 
permission via email sufficient copyright authorization. I might have to tell 
them that the music is not necessarily copyright free.
Just curious about this. I don’t really mind letting them use it for free but 
then again it is N. Korea.


Myron Ort
www.zeno-okeanos,com




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Re: [Frameworks] Affect

[Fred Camper]

I'd bve interested if someone up on the latest in academicese weighs in 
with something different, but to me this looks like a standard use of 
the word "affect" as a noun. Here is what I take the be the relevant 
definition from the OED:


"the outward display of emotion or mood, as manifested by facial 
expression, posture, gestures, tone of voice, etc."


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 2/15/2020 8:37 PM, Gene Youngblood wrote:
Academic Frameworkers: I like to keep abreast of trends in academic 
language, and I've noticed an increased use of the word “affect” in 
scholarly papers. It has become fashionable, but the spin being put on 
it isn’t clear to me. Could someone please tell me what “affect” means 
here for example: "gestures of affect and intervention.” It seems 
different from something like “that doesn’t affect me.” Respond off 
list if you wish ato...@comcast.net <mailto:ato...@comcast.net>. Thanks.





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Re: [Frameworks] Mac OS Catalina

[Fred Camper]

On 1/10/2020 12:35 PM, Adam Hyman wrote:
First, to help others before they run into this, there are several 
general rules before updating an Operating System.

1. Always backup everything to an external hard drive
2. Always backup everything to a second external hard drive

I was going to reply similarly, but did not want to seem obnoxious about 
it. I second, third, and fourth Adam's comments. Perhaps these warnings 
will benefit others, though I thought everyone knew to back up by now.  
It has been known for decades that hard drives can fail unexpectedly and 
unpredictably. All hard drives. I actually have four complete physical 
backups, on multiple exterma; hard drives, and they are divided into two 
different locations, in case of burglary or fire. Also consider 
additional cloud backup. I used to have that, and am planning to add it 
again. One should never depend on a single computer for data.


Similarly, I no longer accept "my computer crashed" (the modern 
equivalent of the old "The dog ate my homework") from students. My 
syllabi now required backing up assignments to a cloud service while you 
work. In a crash, go to a library computer and continue. If there is a 
massive failure of, say, a Microsoft cloud backup, yes, I will accept 
that as an excuse.


In Dominic's case, though, could the files still exist, and just not be 
readable by this new "insanely great" trash-the-past OS?


I have never used Apple. I really loathe Apple, but will spare you the 
reasons here. But there is also a lesson from the PC world, going back 
25 years to Windows95: it can be unsafe to switch a computer to a new 
OS. Therefore, I have never done this. The reasons make sense; a new OS 
changes a lot of things, and there might even be hardware 
incompatabilities. Wait until you get a new computer with a new OS.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] suggestions on travelogue and/or road films by women filmmakers?

[Fred Camper]

Even though I usually gripe about questions like this, I have to answer 
this one, because a film that i deeply love is missing, Joyce Wieland's 
/La Raison Avant la Passion/.


https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/reason-over-passion/Film?oid=1055619

Fred Camper
Chicago


On 10/18/2019 9:58 PM, Kornelia Boczkowska wrote:


Hi all,

I'm looking for travelogue and/or road films made by women filmmakers 
in connection with my postdoctoral project on avant-garde and 
experimental film (no UMO-2018/31/D/HS2/01553).


So far I've been able to track down several works, incl. those 
mentioned in response to Bryan Konefsky's question on experimental 
road movies, but I'm sure there are many more that I'm not aware of. 
Any thoughts? I'd be grateful for any suggestions, also on films that 
embrace non-mechanical means of transportation and revision the 
concept of mobility - as implied by the broad definition of the 
aforementioned genres. I'm pasting some exemplary titles below to give 
you an idea what I'm looking for.


Thanks and all best,

Kornelia

Portland (1996) by Greta Snider

You and I Remain (2015) by Kate McCabe

On The Line (2010) by Cathy Lee Crane

Cayuga Run (1967) and September Express (1973) by Storm De Hirsch

Light Years (1987) by Gunvor Nelson

Roundtrip (2013) by Caroline Blai

The Spaces Between Cities (2015) by Salise Hughes

Flower Fields (1974) and Secrets from the Street: No Disclosure (1980) 
by Martha Rosler


Rules of the Road (1993) by Su Friedrich

There? Where? (1979) by Babette Mangolte

--
Kornelia Boczkowska, Ph.D.
Department of Studies in Culture
Faculty of English
Adam Mickiewicz University in Poznań
http://wa.amu.edu.pl/wa/boczkowska_kornelia
https://orcid.org/-0003-0875-9209

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Re: [Frameworks] examples of "first encounters"

[Fred Camper]

OK, good, fine, thanks.

Fred

On 5/14/2019 1:20 PM, jimmyschaus1 wrote:
I'm a filmmaker working on a scene of this nature, and (among many 
other sources of inspiration not explicitly related to cinema), it's 
helpful.  I've found this to be a good resource...it can yield 
surprises...such as your inclusion of non-human animal (and 
mechanical) interaction in /Au Hasard Balthazar /and /Mothlight./


Jimmy
frameworks 
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Re: [Frameworks] examples of "first encounters"

[Fred Camper]

/Meshes of the Afternoon, /The woman and her double, the woman and the man

/Fireworks/ (Anger) The protagonist and the sailors

/Window Water Baby Moving /(Brakhage), Stan and Myrrena, Jane and 
Myrrena, truly first encounters


/Mothlight /(Brakhage), the moths and the film projector

/Reverberation /(Gerh), the couple on the street

/Adebar/ (Kubelka), the dancing couple

/The End/ (Maclaine), the couple in the sixth episode

/Au Hasard Balthazar /(Bresson), the donkey and the animals in the 
traveling zoo.


Did I mention that I am not a fan of this sort of request, not the least 
because we rarely hear the reason for it.


Fred Camper
Chicago


On 5/14/2019 9:38 AM, jimmyschaus1 wrote:

Trusted Frameworkers,

I am seeking examples of great "first encounters" between characters.  
Two people seemingly pushed together by the universe sort of thing, 
perhaps generated by an accident, a coincidence, a glance, a moment of 
especially outgoing behavior...


The golden torch-bearer I have in mind is the beginning of Rivette's 
/Celine and Julie Go Boating/, where a dropped pair of sunglasses 
leads to a wild chase through the streets and an ensuing magical 
partnership.


Scenes which depict the seed of mysterious magnetism between two people.

I realize scenes of this nature pop up in maybe every other movie you 
see, so just if anything really sticks out to you as a particularly 
novel or noteworthy example, that does something exciting formally...


cheers
Jimmy

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[Frameworks] Sad news: Phil Solomon

[Fred Camper]

A Facebook post, shared by Steve Elworth:

Phil Solomon

It is with great sadness that we report that Phil Solomon passed away on 
Saturday, April 20, 2019.


Phil succumbed to severe complications during a long recovery from major 
surgery a few months ago. He passed peacefully, surrounded by family and 
dear friends.


We would like to thank all of his Facebook friends for their long-time 
appreciation of his work and his life. We know that he touched many 
people in many wonderful ways. He cherished all of you and your 
friendship and conversations, and truly loved this community.


We all will miss him profoundly.

— Phil’s family
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Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

[Fred Camper]

Mary,

Yes, but you must also have seen what that film editing is intercut with 
at several moments...


Fred Camper
Chicago
On 12/2/2018 11:26 AM, mstark...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Fred,

Yes Man with A Movie Camera is an important reference for the study, 
with those great images of Elizaveta Svillova editing with scissors. 
I’d be interested in any other films that show film being edited. I 
know of another that shows a a woman, which is Hail Caesar. There is a 
scene supposedly based upon Margaret Booth who worked for MGM until 
she was in her late 80s.


All best,

Mary
On 1 Dec 2018, at 22:24, Fred Camper <mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>> wrote:


i was glad to hear of your interesting topic. I trust /The Man With 
the Movie Camera/ is included?


Fred Camper

Chicago


On 12/1/2018 1:24 PM, mstark...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your feedback. It has been very helpful!  I stand 
corrected. I somewhat thoughtlessly rushed into sending out the 
survey without checking definitions, as what I meant to find out 
about is about people editing film in a physical non-computerised 
way, not video tape, just photochemical film in any format.


I’d be interested to know how this discussion list would think this 
would be best described.  I think it is better to leave the linear 
out of it and just term it as ‘editing photochemical film’?


Just to add that I am in the final year of a practice as research 
PhD investigating historical relationships between filmmaking and 
textile practice, testing through performance the hypothesis that 
film can be compared to fabric and editing to stitching. I will 
submit a performance and a written thesis so the survey will be help 
with the literature and practice review, as I’m interested to know 
about artists who continue to edit film physically, what their 
process is and ideas about why they do it.


All best,

Mary

On 30 Nov 2018, at 02:37, Christopher Ball <mailto:cbifi...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I remember doing sound mixing with 4 U-matic machines, running them 
all together until they drifted out of sync while mixing audio.  I 
also editing running 2 U-matics together and punching in on the 
record machine when I wanted the cut to happen.  What a difference 
now.  Mind you, film editing was not hard and puts you in a much 
better headspace than computer editing.


Christopher

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 9:34 PM Colinet André 
mailto:colinet.an...@coditel.net>> wrote:


Hello,

of course you are right with this approach.

I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is
also correct.

Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every
time you had to copy to start a new version until the quality
was so bad you had to go back to the originals with the timecodes.


Verzonden vanuit Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> voor Windows 10


*Van: *Adam Hyman <mailto:a...@lafilmforum.org>
*Verzonden: *vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List

<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing


Hi,


 I learned in film school during the transition period that
what Dave says is correct

Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was
linear due to the assembly reason that Dave describes;
non-linear digital editing was a return to the non-linear
editing of celluloid.

We could have a poll though.


Best,


Adam


*From: *FrameWorks mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com>> on behalf of
Colinet André mailto:colinet.an...@coditel.net>>
*Reply-To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>"
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>
*Date: *Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
*To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>"
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing


*I don’t agree with Dave.*

*Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or
video footage.*

*Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because
it’s only a editing list with software.*

*All the best !!*

*Colinet André*




Verzonden vanuit Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> voor Windows 10


*Van: *Dave Tetzlaff <mailto:djte...@gmail.com>
*Verzonden: *donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List
<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing


> I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and
splicing film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.


That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-li

Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

[Fred Camper]

i was glad to hear of your interesting topic. I trust /The Man With the 
Movie Camera/ is included?


Fred Camper

Chicago


On 12/1/2018 1:24 PM, mstark...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your feedback. It has been very helpful!  I stand 
corrected. I somewhat thoughtlessly rushed into sending out the survey 
without checking definitions, as what I meant to find out about is 
about people editing film in a physical non-computerised way, not 
video tape, just photochemical film in any format.


I’d be interested to know how this discussion list would think this 
would be best described.  I think it is better to leave the linear out 
of it and just term it as ‘editing photochemical film’?


Just to add that I am in the final year of a practice as research PhD 
investigating historical relationships between filmmaking and textile 
practice, testing through performance the hypothesis that film can be 
compared to fabric and editing to stitching. I will submit a 
performance and a written thesis so the survey will be help with the 
literature and practice review, as I’m interested to know about 
artists who continue to edit film physically, what their process is 
and ideas about why they do it.


All best,

Mary

On 30 Nov 2018, at 02:37, Christopher Ball <mailto:cbifi...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I remember doing sound mixing with 4 U-matic machines, running them 
all together until they drifted out of sync while mixing audio.  I 
also editing running 2 U-matics together and punching in on the 
record machine when I wanted the cut to happen.  What a difference 
now. Mind you, film editing was not hard and puts you in a much 
better headspace than computer editing.


Christopher

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 9:34 PM Colinet André 
mailto:colinet.an...@coditel.net>> wrote:


Hello,

of course you are right with this approach.

I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is
also correct.

Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every
time you had to copy to start a new version until the quality was
so bad you had to go back to the originals with the timecodes.

Verzonden vanuit Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> voor Windows 10

*Van: *Adam Hyman <mailto:a...@lafilmforum.org>
*Verzonden: *vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List

<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

Hi,

 I learned in film school during the transition period that what
Dave says is correct

Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was
linear due to the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear
digital editing was a return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.

We could have a poll though.

Best,

Adam

*From: *FrameWorks mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com>> on behalf of
Colinet André mailto:colinet.an...@coditel.net>>
*Reply-To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>"
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>
*Date: *Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
*To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>"
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

*I don’t agree with Dave.*

*Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or
video footage.*

*Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s
only a editing list with software.*

*All the best !!*

*Colinet André*

Verzonden vanuit Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> voor Windows 10

*Van: *Dave Tetzlaff <mailto:djte...@gmail.com>
*Verzonden: *donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List
<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

> I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing
film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.

That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear,
which means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by
winding the reels to that spot. Linear editing was how editing in
VIDEO was performed pre-computerization. That is, you had to add
each shot sequentially from beginning to to end, in that order,
and once you got to, say, shot 5, you couldn’t go back and trim
the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.

Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone
who had ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and
limitiing. Thus non-linear video editing was invented by
commercial filmmakers after video became integrated into feature
film produstion vi

Re: [Frameworks] Forwarded from Massart Faculty

[Fred Camper]

So it sounds like you are unquestionably accepting that Levine was 
forced out due to the nature of his filmmaking?


Are the five signatories of that statement lying?

Of course it is true that it is in the nature of some kinds of art 
making that the artist will believe that she or he has found /the 
/truth, /the /path, the only correct way of making films or other art. 
Jessica comments on a facet of this, though I think in some other kinds 
of artists authoritarianism is not to be found, or will be successfully 
hidden. But for some of the most original artists, this belief is 
central to their practice. One only has to read the writings of Dziga 
Vertov and Robert Bresson, both filmmakers who felt so strongly that 
their mode of filmmaking was the only true way that they used use words 
or phrases to refer /only /to their own films to the exclusion of all 
others to emphasize the correctness of their choices, for examples. One 
can only speculate as to the nature, if language differences could be 
bridged, of a "faculty meeting" to discuss the correct  forms of cinema 
education with a faculty consisting of Eisenstein, Vertov, Epstein, 
Bresson, Kubelka, Brakhage, Rainer, and, oh, say, Roberto Rossellini, 
Nicholas Ray and John Ford.


But at the same time, Stan Brakhage, Peter Kubelka, Robert Breer, Hollis 
Frampton, George Landow/Owen Land, Ernie Gehr, Larry Jordan, Ken Jacobs, 
Larry Gottheim, and of course others, all taught  filmmaking for many 
decades. I name these in particular as filmmaker whose work I like, in 
most cases hugely. All showed their own films as part of their teaching 
practice. Does anyone know of cases in which these filmmakers got into 
trouble with their schools over the nature of their completed films, or 
for their expression of their ideas about their art? Some have troubles, 
but more due to the nature of their personalities, is that not right?


With so many nations sliding into dictatorship, we who are privileged to 
live in relatively free nations should appreciate, and try to preserve, 
what we have, taking care to make accusation about the abridgement of 
academic freedom only when it has really occurred.


What you are advocating implies an inner split that is probably 
impossible for most of us to put in practice in the long term, but is 
also fundamentally dishonest. Hired to teach one's beliefs, and not 
directed to conceal them, the filmmaker is then to spend a career lying 
about them? Is that even fair to the students, or to the school? Would 
such a course not make the world a fundamentally worse, rather than 
better, place? Haven't we seen enough lying, especially when it is not 
absolutely necessary?


Avoiding academia entirely might be a good idea, if one can manage it. 
I  think Markopoulos's films only got greater, after he left teaching 
and the U.S. I certainly felt freer in many ways when I could survive as 
a freelance writer, working mostly for a for-profit newspaper, than when 
I turned to teaching at allegedly high-minded not for profit 
institutions. At the same time, I have been relatively free to work my 
own beliefs about cinema and about art even in predesigned courses in 
which I have to teach certain elements I did not decide on (though also 
do not oppose). And I feel sure that for many, alternative-to-teaching 
jobs might be far worse than teaching.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 4/14/2018 12:40 PM, Francisco Torres wrote:
I suggest one course of action to avoid such problems- Total boycott 
of academia. Find other sources of employment if possible. If academia 
is the only alternative in terms of earning an income then withhold 
your true work from the academic audience. Create safe, vanilla works 
for the administration and the student body and another body of work 
for yourself and your true audience (outside academia). Also withhold 
your true wisdom from your academic work, keep it secret. Moreover, 
feed an official artistic line to your students and co-workers. Play 
it safe. After all, it worked for the alchemists for hundred of years.


2018-04-14 1:34 GMT-04:00 lady snowblood <snowbloods.para...@gmail.com 
<mailto:snowbloods.para...@gmail.com>>:


I’ve been observing this situation and reflecting on the need for
competing skills inside one person:
- adherence to personal vision in the studio
- the flexibility of ego to collaborate well with colleagues and
students in the educational environment.

I’ve seen behavior like this in art teachers the past, although
not to this degree. And I assigned it as lots of skill in one area
(authorship) fewer skills in another ...

It’s hard. I’m reminded that “you can’t say authoritarian without
author”. I also re-invest in the notion that I have to keep a good
buffer between my formal creative practice (viciously adhering to
the vision) and the social skills for creating resilient learning
environment (relax, communi

Re: [Frameworks] Forwarded from Massart Faculty

[Fred Camper]

It is very easy for us to judge others. We can sit alone type almost 
anything we like, and theorize as we please. But how difficult is a 
particular person to deal with? We cannot know without having been 
there. I once taught with someone who was so off the rails, and not in 
very interesting ways, that he was just about impossible to deal with, 
and most agreed. Maybe someone could have dealt with him successfully, 
but most could not.


Gross incompetence is a pretty serious charge. Why is one person right 
and the other five wrong?


If it is true, as those five state, that Saul has completely 
misrepresented what happened (and I am not saying that it is true), then 
he has behaved unprofessionally, and actually, with gross incompetence.


Or, have you not read this whole thread? Did you notice all of Scott 
MacDonald's comments? One of the worst things about this list is people 
running off at the mouth in threads that they have not read all of, and 
thereby making false accusations against others on our very own list, as 
recently happened to me. (When I asked for a correction, the person who 
made the misstatement replied that she was much too busy to get further 
involved.) The extreme disregard of facts in our broken political 
culture sometimes has faint echoes here.


Fred Camper
Chicago


On 4/11/2018 9:33 PM, Salah Hassanpour wrote:


Isn’t this a tacit admission of that faculty’s gross incompetency as 
far as failing to exhaust appropriate ways to deal with these 
situations before allowing them to escalate to the point where 
compelling what ought to have been an emeritus faculty out of their 
job is deemed the proper course of affairs?


Salah Hassanpour

*From: *Fred Camper <mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>
*Sent: *April 11, 2018 22:28
*To: *Experimental Film Discussion List 
<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>

*Subject: *Re: [Frameworks] Forwarded from Massart Faculty

Yes. Wow is right. I was the first to express sympathy, and anger that a

film showing to a class could have been an issue. But perhaps that was a

false narrative?

I do not need to take sides here, just note that there are often two

sides, and we should not have jumped to conclusions from one story, even

if from an artist we respect. We know that sometimes, experimental

filmmakers can, um, be difficult. I would like to think that art schools

should accommodate some degree of difficulty from their artists, but

there are also limits.

There was a time decades ago when I was unemployed, broke, and

spiraling downward. A filmmaker who I greatly respect (and I know many

on this list also do) wanted to me apply for an untenured, full-time

position as department chair in the university where he taught. As he

described it, the other members of the film department, all tenured, had

been fighting to the point where they were no longer speaking to each

other. The chair job involved talking about diverse issues with all four

of them and then making decisions. I knew and respected the work of two

of the other three. But the very fact of this situation, and the search

for a chair with this particular job description, boggles the mind, and

I felt a stunning lack of respect for the person they were seeking to

hire, whose continued employment as untentured faculty would depend upon

their votes. I suspected that after a few years of this I would have

been forced to retire to the rubber room -- and might never have emerged.

Most of us have passionate beliefs about aesthetic and related matters.

It takes temperance and skill to argue them from the full depths of our

passions while still letting the people we are arguing with feel

acknowledged and respected. I know that at this I have often failed.

Fred Camper

Chicago

On 4/11/2018 8:54 PM, Jon Behrens wrote:

> wow

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

>> On Apr 11, 2018, at 4:28 PM, Ed Halter <h...@edhalter.com> wrote:

>>

>> Hey Frameworks

>>

>> Felt I should share this announcement that was forwarded to me from 
the Massart faculty.


>>

>> 

>>

>>

>> TO THE MASSART COMMUNITY:

>>

>> The faculty and staff of the Film/Video department demand that 
Professor Saul Levine stop his


>> lies about recent events at Mass Art and his cyber-bullying against 
his colleagues.


>>

>> It is because of Professor Levine’s very public attacks and 
misrepresentations that we feel


>> obliged to correct his version of the complaints against him.

>>

>> He has bullied his colleagues and created an abusive working 
environment over many years.


>>

>> He has derailed and destroyed important discussions about urgent 
departmental and curricular


>> issues.

>>

>> This is NOT an issue of academic freedom. No one at Mass Art made 
any effort to censor or


>> punish Professor Levine for scr

Re: [Frameworks] Forwarded from Massart Faculty

[Fred Camper]

Yes. Wow is right. I was the first to express sympathy, and anger that a 
film showing to a class could have been an issue. But perhaps that was a 
false narrative?


I do not need to take sides here, just note that there are often two 
sides, and we should not have jumped to conclusions from one story, even 
if from an artist we respect. We know that sometimes, experimental 
filmmakers can, um, be difficult. I would like to think that art schools 
should accommodate some degree of difficulty from their artists, but 
there are also limits.


There was a time decades ago when I was  unemployed, broke, and 
spiraling downward. A filmmaker who I greatly respect (and I know many 
on this list also do) wanted to me apply for an untenured, full-time 
position as department chair in the university where he taught. As he 
described it, the other members of the film department, all tenured, had 
been fighting to the point where they were no longer speaking to each 
other. The chair job involved talking about diverse issues with all four 
of them and then making decisions. I knew and respected the work of two 
of the other three. But the very fact of this situation, and the search 
for a chair with this particular job description, boggles the mind, and 
I felt a stunning lack of respect for the person they were seeking to 
hire, whose continued employment as untentured faculty would depend upon 
their votes. I suspected that after a few years of this I would have 
been forced to retire to the rubber room -- and might never have emerged.


Most of us have passionate beliefs about aesthetic and related matters. 
It takes temperance and skill to argue them from the full depths of our 
passions while still letting the people we are arguing with feel 
acknowledged and respected. I know that at this I have often failed.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 4/11/2018 8:54 PM, Jon Behrens wrote:

wow

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 11, 2018, at 4:28 PM, Ed Halter <h...@edhalter.com> wrote:

Hey Frameworks

Felt I should share this announcement that was forwarded to me from the Massart 
faculty.




TO THE MASSART COMMUNITY:

The faculty and staff of the Film/Video department demand that Professor Saul 
Levine stop his
lies about recent events at Mass Art and his cyber-bullying against his 
colleagues.

It is because of Professor Levine’s very public attacks and misrepresentations 
that we feel
obliged to correct his version of the complaints against him.

He has bullied his colleagues and created an abusive working environment over 
many years.

He has derailed and destroyed important discussions about urgent departmental 
and curricular
issues.

This is NOT an issue of academic freedom. No one at Mass Art made any effort to 
censor or
punish Professor Levine for screening his film or any other film he has shown 
over the years.
No one forced him to retire.The decision to retire is entirely Professor 
Levine’s.

We recognize Professor Levine as a brilliant artist and programmer and are 
thankful for his
contributions to the department and to Massart.It is extremely painful to see 
his toxic rant
against the department, besmearing the College and insulting us by name while 
claiming
himself as the victim.

As artists, teachers and mentors, it is our responsibility to stand up when we 
are bullied and to
treat each other with respect. It is also our duty to foster an open, 
respectful, and collegial
environment for our students.

Soon-Mi Yoo, Chair
Ericka Beckman, Professor
Gretchen Skogerson, Professor
Joe Briganti, Studio Manager, Video Area
Kim Keown, Studio Manager, Film Area
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Re: [Frameworks] Brakhage archival project

[Fred Camper]

Yes again. The best source would have been the founder and owner, who 
refused my request to come out and interview him shortly after Stan 
died, and who sson after died himself. When I corresponded with David 
briefly, he had saved the lab records, so I hope he still has, or has 
donated them.


Fred


On 4/5/2018 3:20 PM, Phillip Solomon wrote:
Yes. That would be Cinemalab/ Wester Cine and Robert David would be 
the man to speak to. I’ll send info when I’m home


Phil

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:04 PM, David James > wrote:



Thanks, Jona:

1. I understand that  Walter Newcomb, who acted in some of SB’s 
earliest films lives in Denver


: 6784 E.Cedar Ave., Denver, CO 80224 
(303) 
331-8654.



2. Phil &/or Fred: can you give Jona any leads on the Denver lab 
people who worked with Stan?


Best wishes, David


From: Jona Gerlach >

Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:27 PM
To: David James >
Subject: Re: Brakhage archival project

Hello David,

First off, I apologize for the long silence. The Brakhage Symposium 
has passed, and I am now much more free to participate in the 
interviews. For the month of April, Mondays, Wednesday afternoons and 
Friday mornings are best for me. Come the second week of May (the end 
of the semester) I'm much more free. Hopefully this works for the 
interviewees.


Also, I just wanted to mention, that if there is anyone else in the 
Denver-Boulder area who requires interviewing, I'd be happy to help. 
I know Don Yannacito and Phil Solomon personally, so if I could be of 
any assistance there please let me know, it would be a fairly easy 
thing for me to do.


Best,

Jona

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 6:50 PM, David James > wrote:


That’s great— I’ll just wait to hear from you, OK

best wishes, David




David E. James, Professor
Division of Cinema and Media Studies
School of Cinematic Arts

Professor, East Asian Languages and Cultures

University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90089-2211
213 740 2923 
dja...@cinema.usc.edu 

From: Jona Gerlach >
Date: Monday, February 26, 2018 at 3:59 PM
To: David James >

Subject: Re: Brakhage archival project

Dear David,

My apologies for the delay in response. This is the busiest time
of the semester for me- I'm helping put on this year's Brakhage
Symposium, which is March 10 and 11. Once that is over, my
schedule will be freed up considerably and I will be able to help
you with the interviews. I'll write again next week with more
specific information, but after mid-March I should be pretty
flexible.

Best,

Jona

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 4:09 PM, David James
> wrote:

Dear Jona:

Thanks so much for your email.  I very much hope you will be
able to contribute to this project.  When you see a time slot
opening up, please get back to me and I’ll see whatI can do
about finding contact info.

All best wishes and more soon.

David

-- 


__

*From: *Jona Gerlach >
*Date: *Friday, February 2, 2018 at 7:33 AM
*To: *David James >
*Cc: *Johanna Gosse >
*Subject: *Re: Brakhage archival project

Dear David,

It's a pleasure to be introduced to you, thanks for reaching
out. This is clearly an important project you are embarking
on, and I would be very interested in helping you with
gathering interviews. The only consideration for me would be
the timing of the interviews, but I'm confident we can work
all that out. I very much look forward to discussing this
with you more.

Best,

Jona Gerlach

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 5:59 PM, David James
> wrote:

Dear Jona:

My very good friend Johanna Gosse tells me you might be
interest in a project I am 

Re: [Frameworks] Saul Levine & MassArt: resources

[Fred Camper]

John,

Thanks very much; I did not know about this. I first met Saul over 50 
years ago, having started as film society in Cambridge that showed 
experimental film; he was already an accomplished artist.


From the /Artforum /article linked to:

Last Thursday, MassArt released a “Campus Climate Update” to students 
and staff that stressed the school's committment to ensuring a “healthy 
living and learning environment.” This campus-wide letter came shortly 
after Nicholas Nixon retired, following allegations of sexual harassment 
made against him.


/My comment:/

I cannot imagine supporting the sexual harassment of an individual, 
though Nixon is a photographer of such long-standing repute that one 
would hope that he was offered the chance to make some kind of “I will 
not do it again” promise in return for being encouraged to stay. But it 
seems evident Levine could not harass by simply showing a film. More 
importantly, is not the act of trying to create the very best, and most 
original, art often dangerous, sometimes including risks to the “health” 
of the artist? Does not the best art often break barriers, challenge, 
feel threatening, perhaps even “unhealthy,” whatever that may mean, to 
some viewers? I remember Stan Brakhage's fear of some danger to himself, 
as he was making his wholly “abstract” (a word he hated) /Romans /and 
/Arabics/, from the fact that he felt he was exploring some of the same 
mental “strata” that Mark Rothko had explored in his paintings before 
committing suicide. Especially in my own first years of viewing 
avant-garde film, many of my deepest experiences were of films that I 
found genuinely terrifying.


“With each touch I risk my life. ” – Paul Cézanne

Sounds like MassArt has become not so much an art school as a therapy 
group – or a kindergarten.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 4/1/2018 5:42 PM, John Muse wrote:

Surprised that I haven’t read anything here on the recent news that Saul Levine 
"was pushed out of the Massachusetts College of Art and Design after 
administrators accused him of 'harming students' by showing his film Notes After 
Long Silence, 1989, to his senior thesis class.”

Here are a few resources:

Saul’s original post detailing his decision to “[retire] from MassArt,” as he says, 
and his 
reasons:https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10215932754649479=1165322620

The Artforum 
article:https://www.artforum.com/news/filmmaker-saul-levine-leaves-massart-following-dispute-over-artwork-74844

Indiewire 
article:http://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/saul-levine-mass-art-notes-after-long-silence-1201945678/

Saul’s Facebook page:https://www.facebook.com/saullevine  


Films mentioned in the Artforum article include "Notes After a Long 
Silence"https://vimeo.com/73242778  and “The Big Stick / An Old 
Reel”https://vimeo.com/89886468

j/PrM

*

john muse
visual media scholar
haverford college
he/him/his
http://www.finleymuse.com
http://www.haverford.edu/faculty/jmuse
http://haverford.academia.edu/JohnMuse

*


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Re: [Frameworks] FILMS for ONE to EIGHT PROJECTORS tour dates (VERY off-topic reply)

[Fred Camper]

I have been staying away from "meta" comments on this list in recent 
years, but now I cannot resist. What follows is all seriously off-topic, 
so feel free to ignore.


The only negative comment I can make to Jonathan is that none of the 
mistakenly sent personal emails over the years have even remotely 
measured up to the gentle, almost poetic love letter someone posted by 
mistake -- someone who then vanished from the list.  We never did learn 
how far along the affair, or hoped-for affair, progressed, but I for one 
hope it blossomed into bliss.


I will try to see a Beebe show when I can.

But the other comment, to Jonathan and all, is that I have more than one 
friend who has reported strange depressions and other disconnections in 
the last year. And I have had to admit to myself that I am part of this 
too -- how else to explain staying in bed most of some days, alternating 
between doing nothing and reading the news on my phone, when things i 
would enjoy much more, and actually believe in, beckon? And I have a 
diagnosis for us: we are depressed because the world is going to hell. 
Or as Jonathan put it, our civilization might not make it. The planet 
might not too.


It is not just that "short-fingered vulgarian" at 1600 Pennsylvania 
Avenue; look at what is going on in Poland, Hungary, Turkey, the 
Philippines, and many other countries: just as bad, though mostly 
without the threat of nuclear holocaust.


I have a theory. There was a drought in Syria a decade ago, causing huge 
migration to the cities, providing people with nothing much to do. Many 
fought in the coming civil war. There are many causes for droughts; 
climate change could be on contributor. Is much of the entire migrant 
crisis due to climate change? Given that Trump's election win was so 
narrow, it probably was; even though the decline of coal was not caused 
by climate-sensitive environmentalists, many voters thought it was. The 
unpredictable and surprising effects of climate change seem likely to me 
to cause populations to the rational thinking that is essential to 
democracy and seek out "Great Leaders," however hideous they might be. 
If these effects are happening now, with a sea level rise of less than a 
foot since 1900, I shudder to think of the result of the sea level 
rising only one foot from here, something that seems inevitable. There 
are many more effects besides flooding, including increasingly harsh 
weather extremes, such as massive storms, of which we have already seen 
a few.


I sure hope I am wrong, that we will institute fixes for the climate 
(which will however require massive carbon-removal projects as well as 
an end to emissions) before it is too late, and that in a few years we 
will be seeing democracies progress again. But meanwhile the US is ruled 
by a would-be despot who thinks that the Democrats' failure to applaud 
his speech constitutes treason, also showing that they do not love their 
country very much (which, by the way, is not the same thing as treason). 
Applauding the leader's speech = loving one's country. I can think of 
other countries whose governments would claim that, but all are bad 
dictatorships.


I cannot believe that even the rational do-gooder "good people" are 
mostly not acting on the massive threat climate change presents. Curing 
disease in Africa, as the Gates Foundation is doing, will make no 
difference in the face of this potential apocalypse.


I have a short, somewhat related essay, titled /Trump, Bach, and Me/, at 
http://fredcamper.com/W/Bach.html in both print and audio form.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 2/11/2018 9:33 AM, Jonathan Walley wrote:

Ha Ha! I used to heap scorn and mockery upon people who accidentally sent 
personal emails to listservs by incorrectly replying. But now I have made the 
same embarrassing gaffe! Oh, woe is me.

Well, now everyone knows about my very high opinion of Roger Beebe’s work, 
which you absolutely should see if Roger comes to your town, as well as my 
personal anguish and agony - and I welcome any commiserating responses, as well 
as scorn and mockery. I could have pretended it was an intentionally 
post-modern “review” of Roger’s show, in the tradition of published letters to 
and from filmmakers and critics (Dear Stan Brakhage…), but I decided to be 
honest instead. But Roger, since it’s now public, you’re welcome to use my 
email in any and all publicity for your forthcoming programs.

Sorry everyone for unwittingly - wittlessly - opening the grimy window onto my 
stupid problems.
All best,
Jonathan


Dr. Jonathan Walley
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Cinema
Denison University
wall...@denison.edu


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Re: [Frameworks] Experimental Films before 1910

[Fred Camper]

I pretty much agree with Jonathan here.

Two other elements: the avant-garde of the 1920s, and even more so I 
think the American movement beginning with Harry Smith and Maya Deren, 
operated simultaneously in opposition to the naive representationalism 
of the dominant commercial cinema and within the thinking that 
characterized modernism in the other arts. Thus Deren speaks of the 
"vertical" and opposed to the "horizontal" as ways of organizing a film, 
and was working with an obvious awareness of surrealism. Thus these 
later films make the viewer self aware of the viewing process in ways 
that might lead to a certain kind of intellectual reflection less likely 
to be engendered by the earliest films -- and I find this to be as true 
of Jack Smith as it is of Hollis Frampton. These later films put it to 
us that film viewing itself is something to think about.


Jonathan, I am in the same situation as you are with regards to grading. 
It is always nice by way of relief to read a bit of writing by someone 
who knows the difference between "its" and "it’s," that most sentences 
need both subjects and verbs, and when to use capital letters...


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 12/14/2017 10:02 AM, Jonathan Walley wrote:

Would that I could resist this, but no…

It’s probably a little dangerous to think of these films as 
“experimental” in any strong sense of that term, since mostly the 
“experiments” on view in these films are about cultivating film’s 
ability to tell stories; or else, formal experimentation was about 
exploiting cinema’s novelty in the early years. Both of these impulses 
are about making film/cinema a commodity, and developing a degree of 
formal standardization (which paralleled attempts at 
material/technological standardization that were underway by the 
mid-oughts). Once early cinema was rediscovered, so to speak, as a 
paradigm of “roads to taken,” something Gunning suggests in “The 
Cinema of Attractions,” the historical link between it and 
experimental film “proper” was forged, I would say. But not before.


This is not to put these films down, or to say they have no relevance 
to genuinely Experimental/Avant-garde cinema. But the impulse was 
entirely different than the ones animating experimental filmmaking 
beginning in the late teens and early twenties. Early generations of 
experimental/avant-garde filmmakers looked much more, I think, to the 
budding commercial cinema of the teens for their inspiration (I’m 
thinking of Leger’s love for /La Roue/, for example, or the 
Surrealists’ of slapstick comedy ala Chaplin and Keaton, or Cornell’s 
for films like /East of Borneo/).


Gunning argues that the “cinema of attractions” “goes underground,” to 
be revisited by the avant-garde decades later (he mentioned Jack 
Smith, for instance). But this suggests a kindred spirit between 
someone like Smith or Warhol and the earliest filmmakers, and that it 
was simply a matter of returning to a way of doing things that existed 
before commercial cinema; both claims are questionable.


Anyway, this has allowed me to avoid grading for a little while, which 
is nice.


All best,
JW

Dr. Jonathan Walley
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Cinema
Denison University
wall...@denison.edu <mailto:wall...@denison.edu>

On Dec 13, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Dave Tetzlaff <djte...@gmail.com 
<mailto:djte...@gmail.com>> wrote:


thinking about how it ALL was that way by definition early on; an 
inventory of tricks, effusions, failed and successful experiments.


Do take a look at Gunning’s concept of "cinema of attractions”. You 
could argue that the whole idea of cinema was a trick. Against the 
conventional view that the Lumieres were proto-realists and Melies a 
proto-expressionist, take the famous anecdote about early audiences 
panicking viewing Train Approching A Station. That wasn’t people 
seeing the film as a representation. There’s also something 
connecting the early films of single take with locked down camera 
between later era formal works (e.g. Peter Hutton) that are in the 
Experimental canon.


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Re: [Frameworks] Painting directly to film

[Fred Camper]

Now this is a really interesting suggestion. This film is quite 
spectacular. On my one viewing, I was in many ways disappointed, but 
that could change on later viewings, and in any case it is unique, not 
really like anything I have seen, and anyone interested in abstract 
filmmaking should see it. It is also, gloriously in my view, silent.


I would not, however, even want to try to imagine what a digital version 
would look like. I saw it in its original 35mm format, also projected in 
its intended CinemaScope aspect ratio. The paint is applied with great 
subtlety of detail.


If there is a possibly adequate digital version, I would like to hear of it.

Fred Camper (who is still considering his response to the unfair and 
erroneous insults hurled his way a week ago)

Chicago


On 12/2/2017 5:59 PM, Ignacio Tamarit wrote:
I will recommend Jose Antonio Sistiaga´s /era erera baleibu izik subua 
aruaren .../ (1968–70).

A feature lenght cameraless film of pure abstract imaginery.

xoxo

2017-12-01 23:33 GMT-03:00 Samantha Heth <tuf53...@temple.edu 
<mailto:tuf53...@temple.edu>>:


I find this website is interesting to browse around. It might take
a few clicks to find something you need, but the artists featured
usually have some kind of video/work sample attached. It might be
helpful!

http://www.handmadecinema.com/

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Janet Benn <janetab...@gmail.com
<mailto:janetab...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Len Lye
Norman McLaren

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Myron Ort <z...@sonic.net
<mailto:z...@sonic.net>> wrote:

Can anyone site an example of “abstract expressionist”
painting onto film prior to 1968?  (Hopefully with online
viewing availability).


https://vimeo.com/220986135


*Myron Ort*
www.zeno-okeanos,com





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-- 
Janet Benn


LINKED IN PROFILE
http://www.linkedin.com/in/janetbenn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/janetbenn>
MY WORK - VISUALS
https://www.flickr.com/photos/janetabenn/albums
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/janetabenn/page1>


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-- 
Samantha Heth

BFA Media Arts
Temple University
Center for the Arts
(717) 490-5142


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--
Ignacio Tamarit
Lumiton Museo Usina Audiovisual
Cabral 2354, Munro, Vicente López.
Tel.: 4721-9255.


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Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Fred Camper]

Evan,

You make important points, but this situation is perhaps more 
complicated than you realize. There are also reasonable differences of 
opinion about the extent to which the bad behavior of an artist in life 
should affect attitudes toward the art. Many think bad behavior 
invalidates the art, which I personally think is an absurd, even evil, 
position, and my guess is that if we knew the full stories of the lives 
of the best Renaissance artists, we might be appalled by many.  Murder 
is worse than sexual harassment, right? But can we judge Caravaggio, 
without knowing the full story of the murder he supposedly committed? 
This apparent fact has never much colored my view of his paintings, nor 
would I want it to. There are many different views of what art is, and 
of how it relates to the artist's life. Today it is often thought the 
artist's work is an extension of the life. For many artists, those who 
go beyond simply creating expressions of the personal to try to 
literally merge art and life, this may be true, as with Otto Muehl, for 
example. I do not have any actual experience with Meuhl's art, but what 
I do know of him does not seem of much interest, except in a negative 
sense. But I do not think that disgusting behavior means that the whole 
of a person is disgusting, and I am not even sure that I think 
everything we, and I, now call harassment is disgusting. As I wrote, I 
would count an instructor asking to date a student as almost automatic 
harassment, but does a simple request with no consequences for the 
student if declined make for a disgusting person? That is not Harvey 
Weinstein territory.


Plus, my knowledge of specifics is hearsay, not fit for an Internet 
post. Look at all the disastrous consequences of some Internet posts. It 
is all too easy to pile on with on-line attacks, a lot easier than 
trying to live good lives ourselves. I do not believe in publicly 
accusing anyone of anything without really good evidence. Also, as I 
noted, the cases I know of are also of people either likely inactive due 
to age, or already deceased.


Now, if a responsible biographer approached me with the project of 
telling the full story of a filmmaker's art and life, of course I would 
tell what I know, including how reliably I know it.


I am not a young person. I have done things in my own life (though not 
in the sexual area, I believe) that I might call disgusting. Few of us 
are perfect. Preventing ongoing harm, that is really important, which is 
why it is great that victims are speaking up. But note that the woman 
who was harassed on this list did not name the name. I do not criticize 
her for not doing so. I am in some ways glad that should did not do so. 
These issues are not so simple. It is all too easy to name another 
person as disgusting. But as I said, in my view, disgusting behavior has 
come from many of the makers of great art, and not just in cinema. Read 
about a few painters sometime.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 11/25/2017 2:12 PM, Evan Greene wrote:

Fred,

As a young person just beginning to venture into the experimental film 
world I find your unwillingness to name names rather troublesome. Your 
writing in the past year has been an invaluable resource for me. But 
knowingly letting these disgusting people and their art continue to 
garner the recognition and prestige it does, I think is wrong. History 
demands to be rewritten. Space made for the marginalized. If you do 
kno some of the greatest experimental filmmakers who did these things 
I would hope that you would share it. I think it’s important 
information in regards to writing/talking about and seeing their work 
in the future. Especially in experimental filmmaking where much of the 
content is personal.




On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Cecilia Dougherty 
<cecilia.doughe...@gmail.com <mailto:cecilia.doughe...@gmail.com>> wrote:



Thank you!

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 4:34 PM Fred Camper <f...@fredcamper.com 
<mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>> wrote:


Amazing, but unfortunately not that big of a surprise. It
supports my point that no group should feel holier than thou, or
immune from all the badness. (Take, for example, priests, oh,
wait, let's not...)

I have to admit I do not understand the psychology at work here
-- what pleasure could any male get out of such behavior? I will
say with virtual certainty that nothing that you did "prompted"
him. I guess we humans are all different, and not always in good
ways.

    Thanks for speaking up.

Fred Camper
Chicago


On 11/24/2017 11:17 AM, Kate Ewald wrote:

I will give an anecdote about this very listserv: I was very
severely sexually harassed as a college student posting about a
film screening in 2008.  It was for a well-known experimental
filmmaker.  The response to my post involved "oh, you don't know
what you're talking about and I bet you can shu

Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Fred Camper]

Amazing, but unfortunately not that big of a surprise. It supports my 
point that no group should feel holier than thou, or immune from all the 
badness. (Take, for example, priests, oh, wait, let's not...)


I have to admit I do not understand the psychology at work here -- what 
pleasure could any male get out of such behavior? I will say with 
virtual certainty that nothing that you did "prompted" him. I guess we 
humans are all different, and not always in good ways.


Thanks for speaking up.

Fred Camper
Chicago

On 11/24/2017 11:17 AM, Kate Ewald wrote:
I will give an anecdote about this very listserv: I was very severely 
sexually harassed as a college student posting about a film screening 
in 2008.  It was for a well-known experimental filmmaker.  The 
response to my post involved "oh, you don't know what you're talking 
about and I bet you can shut up and stick a dick in your mouth."  This 
persisted for several posts (becoming increasingly graphic), some just 
to me, some to the whole list - I'm not sure what prompted such a 
reaction from this stranger.  Scott was kind enough to delete these 
posts from the archives out of respect and block this person from 
Frameworks, but as a young person first entering the experimental film 
community (it was my first post on Frameworks), I was shaken.  Some 
people policed it and stood up for me then, but Scott made it go away 
very quickly.  So yes, this happens in our community, and yes, this 
happens on this listserv.  I wish it weren't the case.



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Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Fred Camper]

This utopian view of experimental cinema seems to me to be incorrect. 
Some of those I would call the very greatest experimental filmmakers 
were also sexual harassers. Remember that many filmmakers had a position 
of profesorship, which certainly conveys an aura of authority, or other 
positions of power. Asking for sex from a very young and very admiring 
student enrolled in one of one's courses  is highly inappropriate, and 
not only in my view, even if it is nowhere near as awful as the worst of 
the actions we are hearing about today.


I do not wish to name filmmakers now very old or deceased, but I can 
without searching my memory very hard quickly count to eight, not all of 
them among the greatest filmmakers and not all of them professors. I 
felt the need to chime in in response to the we are better than they 
tone of this post. I am a bit out of the current scene and do not know 
of currently active harassers in our little film world. It would be nice 
to think that there are fewer today, and nicer to think that such 
actions will be greatly reduced by the current shift in climate around 
this issue.


Perhaps the old HIV slogan, Silence=Death, can be resurrected with a 
slight rewrite now? I am not sure what to use instead of death though.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 11/23/2017 8:21 PM, Pip Chodorov wrote:

Asking for a friend?  Hilarious subject line.

I think experiemental film's freedom comes from its marginality.
In this business there is no money or power because these films are 
outside the film industry and outside the art market. There is only 
passion, sharing, and working in cooperative communities.


That is not to say that there is no competition or territoriality 
between people or groups, we feel that maybe even stronger than in the 
film industry or the art market. But there is certainly no sense of 
entitlement over others due to one's position. There are no bosses, no 
job interviews, no big opportunities, no moguls... Also the nature of 
these film works are self-expression and thrashing out issues of 
difference and marginality and self-identity so it is a very welcoming 
community in those terms.


Of course there are other kinds of negative energies that can crop up 
in our communitiy besides sexual haassment, other, more "experimental" 
harassments that could be interseting to discuss...


- Pip Chodorov




At 21:06 + 23/11/17, Chuck Kleinhans wrote:
Given the proliferation of items in the news about sexual harassment 
in the film industry, and entertainment, and politics and academe, 
etc. why is this listserv so quiet on these issues?  Nothing to report?


Chuck Kleinhans
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Re: [Frameworks] Editing negative

[Fred Camper]

On 10/22/2017 8:46 PM, Jeff Kreines wrote:
We did “cull” our original (usually reversal, back in the day) before 
workprinting, to save every last penny.


As did big-budget Hollywood films -- that was the difference between the 
director ending a take with a call of “cut,“ or “cut print.“


Cutting from workprint is a wonderful luxury. You can actually try out 
different things, and different shot lengths, without damaging the original.


I agree about conforming and dust. Dust is a problem with reversal too, 
but when cutting negative it is much worse -- a black speck against a 
bright field is annoying, but it does remind one of the material nature 
of celluloid. A white speck against dark, which happens all too often 
with negative, what is that about? A lot more noticeable than a black 
speck, and actually a little too revealing of the process, if you ask me...


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] Christopher MacLaine

[Fred Camper]

I have an old short article on Maclaine at 
http://fredcamper.com/Film/Maclaine.html


The rare book collection at the University of California Berkeley, the 
Bancroft Library I believe, has books of Maclaine's poetry and copies of 
journals he edited.


If someone is doing a massive photocopy order for these, I can go 
"halfsies" on it.


Fred Camper
Chicago

(...who is still astounded by posts to an international mailing list 
that don't even mention the city, even posts about spaces for rent. 
These are almost invariably from New York or San Francisco, as if 
everyone knows in what city the "G" train runsThe old cliche about 
certain big city residents who assume that everyone worth anything lives 
in their city seems to still be true, if only about subconscious 
assumptions. Or of course there is also simple forgetfulness...)


On 7/7/2017 3:53 AM, Pip Chodorov wrote:

Yes we still carry Maclaine's films on DVD.
The booklet is from Brakhage's chapter in FILM AT WIT'S END, which is 
enlightening and funny!

Pip


At 17:44 +0200 7/07/17, Esperanza Collado wrote:

Maybe Pip could help. Re:Voir released MacLaine's films on VHS long ago.

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Re: [Frameworks] mental problems

[Fred Camper]

I can't resist -- Otto Preminger's very crazy and widely 
disregarded/Skidoo! /has an acid trip. Supposedly Preminger took acid 
himself in preparation for the film. There's also a very great vision of 
some kind of dissociative insanity near the end of Edgar G. Ulmer's 
/Detour/.


Interestingly, I don't think you'll find much in the greatest mainline 
(i. e. not "derivative") "experimental" or "avant-garde" films, because 
they don't usually start from a basis in quotidian reality.The most 
unusual and "nutty" portion of Bruce Baillie's /Quick Billy /is arguably 
reel four, the imitation Western.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 3/22/2017 11:41 AM, Gene Youngblood wrote:
Friends, I’m seeking recommendations of feature films with scenes that 
attempt to visualize inner states of mind such as breakdowns 
(Vertigo), nightmares (Spellbound), acid trips (Easy Rider) or any 
other kind of hallucination (Altered States). Ecstatic or horrific 
doesn’t matter. Thanks.




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Re: [Frameworks] pageant arc projectors

[Fred Camper]

Thanks!

Fred


On 2/28/2017 7:01 PM, Eric Theise wrote:

Fred,

Re:Voir has released Rameau's Nephew, etc., on DVD.
http://re-voir.com/shop/en/michael-snow/70-micheal-snow-rameau-s-nephew-by-diderot-thanx-to-dennis-young-by-wilma-schoen-3493551100393.html

Eric


On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Fred Camper <f...@fredcamper.com 
<mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>> wrote:


Since I've been known as a rather arch defender of film on film, I
have to weigh in a bit on David's side here.

As film projection becomes rarer an d rarer, various perhaps
unexpected but not unanticipatable problems occur.

A few years back I went to a projection of Snow's /Rameau's
Nephew/ at a generally well-run college film society, committed to
showing films on film. I had not seen this complex and impressive
film since the mid-1970s, when it was first released, and so was
eager to see it again. It's over four hours long, and doesn't
exactly play often at the local Bijou. As most likely know, Snow
stands with Gehr and Kubelka as being unwilling to release his
work on video, the idea being that it was made for film and
should, or must, be seen on film.

The film started. There was something seriously wrong with the
sound. Specifically, it sounded like the film was threaded loose
around the sound drum. Any experienced projectionist would
recognize this sound, because we've all misthreaded this way at
least once. At the same time, I remembered Snow played around with
the sound quite a bit in this film -- I just didn't remember what
he did at each moment. After about 20 minutes, though, I was sure
the projection was wrong, and sent a friend sitting with me who
knew the student projectionists back to tell them to fix it. The
message came back that they had tested the film in advance, and
that this is the way the film was supposed to sound.

They had mounted it on two huge reels, so after the first two or
two and a half hours there was a break. The whole first half had
been shown with this wobbly sound, and now I was 100 per cent
certain that, however faulty my memory of short sections might be,
I would have remembered if the sound of the whole first half had
had that "loose loop" quality. I sent my friend back again with
the message that someone present had seen the film when it was
first shown forty years ago and was certain that the film was
being projected incorrectly. Three students huddled around the
projector for twenty minutes, investigating the situation. When
they finally started the second half, the sound was fine.

Is anyone to blame here? Perhaps projectionists could be better
trained, but that is less and less likely to happen with fewer and
fewer films being shown on film. Perhaps others in the audience
should have recognized the telltale sound of film loose around the
sound drum, but how rare it is to see film on film anymore, and of
course for an "experimental" film perhaps some would feel that one
can never quite be sure what it is "supposed" to sound like.

I left thinking how much better the screening would have been for
me if the film had it been shown on DVD, though of course it is
not on DVD. But still. The sound is just as important as the image
in this film, if not more so, and the damage done to the sound was
the aesthetic equivalent of showing the film severely out of
focus, out of focus to the point of an almost total blur, a blur
that anyone would have loudly objected to, whereas the damage done
to the image in transfer to digital projection, even on a sub-par
projector, would have been far, far less.

Those of us, such as myself, who might have at one time
self-identified as "film fundamentalists," have to awaken, however
sadly, to the realities of our current situation. I would guess
that David made, from my point of view, the best possible choice.

At the same time,we should of course support those venues that
continue to show film on film.

Fred Camper
Chicago


On 2/28/2017 4:41 PM, Dave Tetzlaff wrote:

I’m more techy-geeky than most. I once tried to get an old pageant arc 
projector going in an effort to get a brighter image in our schoolo auditorium, 
but gave up. The technology is not really suitable for infrequent use sans tech 
support: there’s that massive old-school power supply driving a short-lived 
arc-lamp, and it’s all ‘analog’ in the sense that if it’s not in tip-top 
condition it still ‘works’ but in a substandard way. Thus, while I did get the 
one we had going, the image was far too blue to be usable and not much brighter 
than a regular Pageant either. I thought about getting a new lamp (dude, it’s 
not a ‘bulb’) but after checking price, availability, life, and the odds that 
would make

Re: [Frameworks] pageant arc projectors

[Fred Camper]

Since I've been known as a rather arch defender of film on film, I have 
to weigh in a bit on David's side here.


As film projection becomes rarer an d rarer, various perhaps unexpected 
but not unanticipatable problems occur.


A few years back I went to a projection of Snow's /Rameau's Nephew/ at a 
generally well-run college film society, committed to showing films on 
film. I had not seen this complex and impressive film since the 
mid-1970s, when it was first released, and so was eager to see it again. 
It's over four hours long, and doesn't exactly play often at the local 
Bijou. As most likely know, Snow stands with Gehr and Kubelka as being 
unwilling to release his work on video, the idea being that it was made 
for film and should, or must, be seen on film.


The film started. There was something seriously wrong with the sound. 
Specifically, it sounded like the film was threaded loose around the 
sound drum. Any experienced projectionist would recognize this sound, 
because we've all misthreaded this way at least once. At the same time, 
I remembered Snow played around with the sound quite a bit in this film 
-- I just didn't remember what he did at each moment. After about 20 
minutes, though, I was sure the projection was wrong, and sent a friend 
sitting with me who knew the student projectionists back to tell them to 
fix it. The message came back that they had tested the film in advance, 
and that this is the way the film was supposed to sound.


They had mounted it on two huge reels, so after the first two or two and 
a half hours there was a break. The whole first half had been shown with 
this wobbly sound, and now I was 100 per cent certain that, however 
faulty my memory of short sections might be, I would have remembered if 
the sound of the whole first half had had that "loose loop" quality. I 
sent my friend back again with the message that someone present had seen 
the film when it was first shown forty years ago and was certain that 
the film was being projected incorrectly. Three students huddled around 
the projector for twenty minutes, investigating the situation. When they 
finally started the second half, the sound was fine.


Is anyone to blame here? Perhaps projectionists could be better trained, 
but that is less and less likely to happen with fewer and fewer films 
being shown on film. Perhaps others in the audience should have 
recognized the telltale sound of film loose around the sound drum, but 
how rare it is to see film on film anymore, and of course for an 
"experimental" film perhaps some would feel that one can never quite be 
sure what it is "supposed" to sound like.


I left thinking how much better the screening would have been for me if 
the film had it been shown on DVD, though of course it is not on DVD. 
But still. The sound is just as important as the image in this film, if 
not more so, and the damage done to the sound was the aesthetic 
equivalent of showing the film severely out of focus, out of focus to 
the point of an almost total blur, a blur that anyone would have loudly 
objected to, whereas the damage done to the image in transfer to digital 
projection, even on a sub-par projector, would have been far, far less.


Those of us, such as myself, who might have at one time self-identified 
as "film fundamentalists," have to awaken, however sadly, to the 
realities of our current situation. I would guess that David made, from 
my point of view, the best possible choice.


At the same time,we should of course support those venues that continue 
to show film on film.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 2/28/2017 4:41 PM, Dave Tetzlaff wrote:

I’m more techy-geeky than most. I once tried to get an old pageant arc 
projector going in an effort to get a brighter image in our schoolo auditorium, 
but gave up. The technology is not really suitable for infrequent use sans tech 
support: there’s that massive old-school power supply driving a short-lived 
arc-lamp, and it’s all ‘analog’ in the sense that if it’s not in tip-top 
condition it still ‘works’ but in a substandard way. Thus, while I did get the 
one we had going, the image was far too blue to be usable and not much brighter 
than a regular Pageant either. I thought about getting a new lamp (dude, it’s 
not a ‘bulb’) but after checking price, availability, life, and the odds that 
would make it usable (too dicey), I scrapped the project. Part of that was 
concluding the best I could get it would still leave any prints I could readily 
get projected too far out of proper color balance for reasonable aesthetics. 
I.e. Xenon lamp color balance is off for most available prints, but tolerable 
most of the time, but the arc lamp seems significantly more cool than a Xenon 
and intolerable with a tungsten balanced print.

My firsat conclusion was/is that these old Arc Pageants just aren’t worth the 
time/effort/operating expense now. It’s a shame because they are ‘classic’, a

Re: [Frameworks] Subject: "Husbands" and "Wives"

[Fred Camper]

On 2/11/2017 7:21 AM, Chris Kennedy wrote:

Couples once, maybe and still:

Once, for six months, but not "still"

Gregory Markopoulos and Warren Sonbert

I think a few other noted filmmakes were "with" Gregory briefly, but I'm 
not sure they were couples..


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] Feature 16mm FILM Kickstarter

[Fred Camper]

I can't resist a reply, though admittedly a bit off-topic: Willie Sutton 
always denied having said this. Apparently a reporter made it up. See 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Sutton


His actual reason for robbing banks is much more interesting: "I loved it."

I agree that one cannot object to a kickstarter link. But the 
"ecosystem" of FrameWorks has evolved from a list that used to have some 
actual discussions on it, however idiotic (and I include some of my own 
arguments in "idiotic"), however nasty, about real issues of cinema and 
art, to a list that consists mostly of self-promotions and questions on 
the order of, "Can anyone give me a list of films that include bunny 
rabbits," with no further explanation as to the reason for the query. Is 
this not in keeping with our current culture, in which everyone is 
absorbed in themselves, their business, their money, their feelings, and 
in what others can do for ME? Our elections go the same way. People vote 
on their highly personal emotional response to a candidate, rather than 
by studying the issues, and trying to objectively assess the candidate's 
qualifications.


"I loved it." Perhaps one should find a way to do something one loves, 
with or without money.


But no, I am not objecting to those easy-to-ignore Kickstarter links. 
Interesting though how the evolving Web has made something easy that no 
one would have considered earlier. I have trouble imagining a FrameWorks 
post in the pre-Kickstarter days stating, "I need money to finish my 
film. Please send me some. Here's my address. I'll send you a T-shirt in 
return." The current Web has made us even more self-absorbed, it seems.


In the spirit of holiday giving,

Fred Camper
Chicago

On 12/24/2016 9:32 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Indeed.  I am not offended at seeing kickstarters, but, well, I don't have any
money.  If I did, I'd finish my own film about a girl trapped on the moon.

Somehow I don't think sending to a list of artists is an effective way
to find financial backing.  I am reminded that Willie Sutton was once
asked why he robbed banks and he said, "because that's where the money is."
If you're looking for investors, go where the money is.
--scott


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Re: [Frameworks] (no subject)

[Fred Camper]

Pretty much the "textbook definition of bigorty," to paraphrase a 
certain prominent Republican on another Republican, characterizing a 
whole group of people and making blanket assumptions about them. But I 
long ago learned to pay little attention to Bernie's posts....


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 12/9/2016 8:21 AM, Bernard Roddy wrote:

Down with filmmakers, long live film!  What is a filmmaker today?  Who
amongst those interested in film would embrace the title?  What do we
have in mind when we think of what needs to be made, what we have to
see now, today?  Filmmakers are the last to know now.  They are the
most remote from even the technology of film, which is not just a
question of emulsion, nor a question of optical printing.  Could we
understand this technology without understanding what animation is,
without thinking about architecture, as architecture is understood
within urban studies . . and the book!  The book has more to do with
film than anything narrating a subject's desires. Down with
filmmakers, the elderly and rural pedagogues along with the young
opportunists, the youtube mob.  Long live film!

Bernie
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Re: [Frameworks] Auto-load projector problem

[Fred Camper]

In addition to the good suggestions already given, sometimes it helps, 
especially with some super8s,  to bend the head of the film a bit to put 
a little temporary curl in it to match the direction of the loop former. 
This seems especially helpful with some super-8s.


With the Bolex super-8 18-5s, it is possible to remove the upper and 
lower loop formers and the bottom film guide to turn them into manual 
loads. You have to break a little plastic  but it doesn't damage the 
projectors to do so.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 11/13/2016 7:55 PM, Robert Withers wrote:

Hi,
I keep encountering auto-load projectors in 16mm and S8 mm that don't load for 
me. You push down the thingie at the top of the threading pattern to start 
auto-loading but when the film feeds in it goes straight up after the first 
curve without entering the gate. Do these projectors have issues or is there a 
trick?
Need more community.
Thanks,
Robert



WithersWorks.com



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Re: [Frameworks] Support my new Kickstarter project for my new great 16mm motion picture!

[Fred Camper]

I'm sorry that you have had a rough life. You're not the only one. 
You're certainly not the only member of this list who lacked a their own 
place for many months, though thankfully I was always able to sleep 
indoors somewhere. I do hope you can act on your own to make things better.


As for Stan Brakhage, he may have been generally encouraging, but in 
terms of offering filmmakers specific support, as in praise or by 
purchasing prints, he only did so when he saw and believed in their 
work. Maybe your work will turn out to be really great, but I've seen a 
lot of films in the "pure cinema" mode that I didn't much get. Maybe 
that was my failing as a viewer. Their makers often did think their own 
work was great.


I joined FrameWorks twenty years ago not to receive or give "support" 
but to engage in serious discussions about cinema and to keep track of 
what was going on. I did engage in some serious discussions. I also 
wound up in a few unfortunate flame wars. Now real discussions are rare. 
"Give me money" is common.


One I hope helpful hint: insulting the members of a community is not the 
best way to gain their support.


Good luck with your project.

Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Fred Camper]

On 8/29/2016 4:10 PM, Jeff Kreines wrote:


...Now it seems that many people prefer to fake it...
Do many people care about the difference at all anymore. Don't some 
"theoreticians" even argue that the difference is irrelevant in our 
"fakey" world?


As words change their meaning through usage, "documentary" now includes 
films full of reenactments.


I'm with you, Jeff.

"Grumpy" Fred
aka

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] the PhD referral for programs friendly to experimental film

[Fred Camper]

Many would agree that the best Ph. D. program in film is the Uiversity 
of Chicago's. Two of the faculty there, James Lastra and Tom Gunning, do 
have a special interst in avant-garde film. I have known many of their 
students, who are generally excellent, and they have a good record of 
placing graduates in jobs. The program is, however, highly competitive, 
and only a few are admitted. I'm sure they can give you more currenbt 
information.


If there is a Ph.D. program "specialized" in avant-garde film, I'd like 
to hear of it!


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 7/30/2016 10:11 PM, 이고운 Ko Woon Lee wrote:

Hello all,

I have been teaching in Korea and making experimental films and documentaries 
as well since I graduated from San Francisco Art Institute in 2010 with MFA 
degree in filmmaking. Now I am thinking about pursuing PhD in film studies in 
the U.S. again and researching about schools and PhD programs specialised in 
avant-garde film or at least friendly to experimental film. If you have some 
information and experience, please help my research.

Thank you in advance.

Kowoon Lee
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Re: [Frameworks] History question

[Fred Camper]

Cancel my last post. It's been pointed out that you were not replying to 
me, sorry. I don't need to get more involved in all this!


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 6/26/2016 2:42 PM, Gutenko, Gregory wrote:
Provocation.  Works for Trump.  But so far we had not been directed to 
any clips of "streaky-lights car POV" footage prior to 1975.  That's 
why the question is out there.  Happy to revise when 'fact-checked'.


 /
<  DV  >  Gregory Gutenko
 /



On Jun 26, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Francisco Torres <fjtorre...@gmail.com 
<mailto:fjtorre...@gmail.com>> wrote:


If you are not sure it was the ''first time ever'' why claim it in 
the Vimeo video?


2016-06-26 14:17 GMT-04:00 Tim Halloran <televis...@hotmail.com 
<mailto:televis...@hotmail.com>>:


Cranky Camper.

Regardless, a pretty cool little film Gregory.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 26, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Fred Camper <f...@fredcamper.com
<mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>> wrote:


The question of who was first with an effect is the most
unanswerable question in film history. You would have to see
every film ever made, including all the ones that have been
lost, to answer it.

Even if you could answer it, what would the answer mean?

Perhaps the first was a 1937 film by an amateur filmmaker in
Finland that no one ever saw. So what would that fact signify?
Even if "Koyaanisqatsi" "popularized" the effect, does that mean
that every subsequent use of it was a result? Surely there are
filmmakers since who discovered it on their own. If you are
filming a car ride with a camera with single framing, it's kind
of an obvious thing to try.

I'm pretty sure I've seen this in lesser known "experimental"
films of the 1960s.

Personally, I hope no one tries it again (just kidding, but not
completely).

Fred Camper
Chicago

On 6/26/2016 10:42 AM, Gutenko, Gregory wrote:

Hello All,

A historical question:

What was the first film to do a time-exposed single-frame sequence from a 
car/driver POV?  Koyaanisqatsi popularized the effect in 1983, but when was it 
first done?  I worked on a student film in 1975 called Nervous on the Road that 
featured this technique at mid-point, but surely we weren't the first, were we? 
 You can check a very compressed file of Nervous out on Vimeo at
https://vimeo.com/25296928

When we did this we were going for the slit-scan look of the stargate 
sequence from 2001, but that was an animation process and we were doing 
real-world cinematography with a wind-up Bolex.  It won an award at a film 
festival in 1997 and was broadcast over four midwest PBS stations in 1980 and 
not shown since.

So who originated this effect?

Gregory Gutenko


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Re: [Frameworks] History question

[Fred Camper]

On 6/26/2016 2:42 PM, Gutenko, Gregory wrote:

Provocation.  Works for Trump
I'm not going to descend into this kind of ad hominem attack. The 
"first" question has long been a problem in film history, and I tried to 
indicate why.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] History question

[Fred Camper]

The question of who was first with an  effect is the most unanswerable 
question in film history. You would have to see every film ever made, 
including all the ones that have been lost, to answer it.


Even if you could answer it, what would the answer mean?

Perhaps the first was a 1937 film by an amateur filmmaker in Finland 
that no one ever saw. So what would that fact signify? Even if 
"Koyaanisqatsi" "popularized" the effect, does that mean that every 
subsequent use of it was a result? Surely there are filmmakers since who 
discovered it on their own. If you are filming a car ride with a camera 
with single framing, it's kind of an obvious thing to try.


I'm pretty sure I've seen this in lesser known "experimental" films of 
the 1960s.


Personally, I hope no one tries it again (just kidding, but not completely).

Fred Camper
Chicago

On 6/26/2016 10:42 AM, Gutenko, Gregory wrote:

Hello All,

A historical question:

What was the first film to do a time-exposed single-frame sequence from a 
car/driver POV?  Koyaanisqatsi popularized the effect in 1983, but when was it 
first done?  I worked on a student film in 1975 called Nervous on the Road that 
featured this technique at mid-point, but surely we weren't the first, were we? 
 You can check a very compressed file of Nervous out on Vimeo at
https://vimeo.com/25296928

When we did this we were going for the slit-scan look of the stargate sequence 
from 2001, but that was an animation process and we were doing real-world 
cinematography with a wind-up Bolex.  It won an award at a film festival in 
1997 and was broadcast over four midwest PBS stations in 1980 and not shown 
since.

So who originated this effect?

Gregory Gutenko


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Re: [Frameworks] films using ancient Greek themes, etc.

[Fred Camper]

One obvious suggestion is Brakhage's /Visions in Meditation #3: Plato's 
Cave/.


Another is Hollis Frampton's /Works and Days/, a found film that he 
signed as his own and titled after a Hesiod poem.


There are also several relevant feature=-length films by Straub/Huillet

I sincerely hope your students will be required to read some of the 
great Greek texts seriously, and not just as an adjunct to media production.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] Sally Berger, film curator, fired at MoMA

[Fred Camper]

I understand and agree. And I hate all these confidentiality agreements 
-- we should get the IRS to require transparency of not for profits, 
which, as a result of their tax exempt status, operate in effect with 
huge subsidies from all of us.


None of this, however, encourages me to want to sign an online petition 
without more information.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 6/21/2016 7:23 AM, Chris Kennedy wrote:

"At the very least, it seems to me that someone who cares about this
curator should try to do the work a good journalist would do and get to
the bottom of the situation. An authoritative analysis that could show
the firing was really wrong might actually help." -Fred Camper

That's a nice idea, but journalists at least have institutional protection 
against libel laws. Any organization even half as  big as MoMA has a large HR 
dept and is lawyered up to prevent the bottom of the situation from ever being 
reached. In short, no one besides Berger's immediate confidants and those that 
did the firing are ever going to know what happened. An online petition is 
likely all that anyone can do, unless local NYers are willing to boycott the 
MoMA.

Chris
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Re: [Frameworks] Sally Berger, film curator, fired at MoMA;

[Fred Camper]

I agree in general with David's comments, without knowing much about the 
specifics of the situation, but I wanted to post a cautionary opinion 
about online petitions. I just about never sign them. First of all, they 
usually have no effect. Second, when they do, their effect is often a 
bad one. More importantly, mostly they refer to very complicated 
situations about which the signers know little. In the larger world,  We 
certainly know that major institutions have fired people for unjust,  
idiotic or even evil reasons, but I also know of people who have been 
fired, or have had their lives ruined, through online petitions or 
shaming for offenses that perhaps did not deserved that. (A recent 
example, http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/shame-on-you-tube-1.3086407 )


It's a big enough challenge to act well in one's own life, and to treat 
well the people with whom one comes in immediate contact, and Lord knows 
i have not always succeeded in doing that. It is all too easy to sign 
something in outrage over some situation or other. The issues about 
which I feel I know enough to have an opinion -- we should use less 
fossil fuels, for example -- are not going to be affected by online 
petitions anyway.


Do we initiate and sign online petitions to make ourselves feel better, 
or to actually make things better? As one-liner pieces of wisdom go, I 
am a great admirer of Gandhi's "Be the change you want to see ion the 
world."


At the very least, it seems to me that someone who cares about this 
curator should try to do the work a good journalist would do and get to 
the bottom of the situation. An authoritative analysis that could show 
the firing was really wrong might actually help.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] Exemplary Sound Design in AG Film

[Fred Camper]

Dear Robert,

Thanks for your reply. But when you write

On 5/16/2016 12:43 PM, robert harris wrote:
As to anonymity, community and the internet, I prefer my community to 
involve warm bodies sharing tangible space.


I hope all noticed at least one group of warm bodies near you who got in 
touch via FrameWorks when they saw your locale. I think more real 
connections would happen if people identified themselves and their 
location(s).


The program you are teaching in sounds great, the kind of thing I'd 
consider if it came my way.


I'm proud to be remembered for having mentioned a sublimely great piece 
of classical music. Perhaps sometime I can find an excuse to post on 
Ockeghem's /Missa Prolationem/. I do think the decline of interest in 
"classical" music could somewhow be connected to the decline of formal 
complexity in new art and new cinema, and that in general pop/rock 
offers less interesting models for filmic structure.


I guess i don't understand the reason for your criteria, but so be it. 
The sound track to /The End/ may be "just" words and music, but it's 
very self-aware, calling attention to itself and to the viewing 
situation ("The person next to you is a leper.") I second the mentions 
of /Very Nice, Very Nice/, a film whose sound track was actually 
composed first. I don't know if a print can be rented by the NFB has a 
high-res version on their site. Lipsett's /21-87/ could be considered too.


Fred Camper
Chicago


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Re: [Frameworks] Exemplary Sound Design in AG Film

[Fred Camper]

Why not tell us your name, location, and the name of the school?

FraneWorks doesn't feel like much of a community anymore. Or maybe I'll 
just never get used to Internet anonymity, fine on some sex advice board 
but to me not right for a place like this.


To be contrary, I'd suggest Christopher Maclaine's /The End/ and /The 
Man Who Invented Gold/. They are very great films, in my view but not in 
everyone's, with great soundtracks that do not meet your criteria, but 
they are not "strictly intellectual" either -- far from it. Made with 
minimal means, they might seem amateurish to someone who hated them.


Then there's my favorite Bruce Baillie sound track, the one for /Tung/. 
But check into what i mean before renting the film.


Fred Camper, Chicago

On 5/15/2016 2:36 PM, lagonaboba wrote:
For a class I’m preparing, I’m interested in suggestions as to 
Experimental Films with exemplary, excellent sound design and sound 
editing.
By excellent I mean, complex, layered, inventive, of rich and nuanced 
timbre….excellent for it’s sonic qualities (as opposed to strictly 
intellectual qualities).
As I plan to rent prints, it would be helpful if the works were 
available from FMC, Canyon, MOMA or some USA domestic distributor.

I would include:

Baillie’s /Castro Street /&/Quick Billy, /
Kubelka’s /Unsere Afrikareise, /
Hindle’s /Watersmith/
Jack Chambers’ /Hart of London/

Thanks.




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Re: [Frameworks] Brakhage films in Maine, May 5, 2016.

[Fred Camper]

On 5/2/2016 1:29 AM, john porter wrote:

Fred, are you screening at both 11am and 6:30pm? Says so on your website.
John Porter, Toronto

---


No, only 6:30. Thanks a lot for catching this. It's fixed now. I can't 
even figure out how 11 AM crept i there! It seems that no matter how 
much I try to proofread...


Fred Camper
Chicago
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[Frameworks] Brakhage films in Maine, May 5, 2016.

[Fred Camper]

I am presenting a program of films by Stan Brakhage at Colby College, 
Waterville Maine, on May 5. These are 16mm prints rented from Canyon. 
The films are:


The Wonder Ring
Mothlight
Sirius Remembered
The Riddle of Lumen
Sol
Arabic 14
Chartres Series
The Lion and the Zebra Make God’s Raw Jewels

and there's more information at http://fredcamper.com/Brakhage/Colby.html

These represent my idea of some of Brakhage's very greatest from various 
phases of his career.


Sorry for the short notice -- I only received the final details a few 
days ago.


Fred Camper

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Re: [Frameworks] 360 degrees

[Fred Camper]

A handheld 360 movement around two young men kissing in an obvious 
homage to the "Vertigo" kiss appears in Warren Sonbert's first film, 
"Amphetamine."


Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Texts / Works Bridging Early Cinema, Early Video, Early ___

[Fred Camper]

Yes, that's right. Because it was positive film, a succession of black 
and white rectangles appeared inside each other as with each new pass 
the previous result was filmed. I believe it was around 40 minutes long. 
It was really interesting; I had never seen anything like it before, and 
have not since.


Fred Camper

On 1/13/2016 11:32 PM, Gene Youngblood wrote:
I believe Tony Conrad did some kind of demonstration or performance of 
“film feedback” in which exposed 16mm film went immediately into a 
developing bath and was projected, and the projection was filmed and 
projected, and so on.  No doubt someone on this list remembers that 
and can describe it properly. Also, for scholars of early video, in 
the current issue of Afterimage Robyn Farrell has an in-depth history 
of Gerry Schum’s “TV Gallery” and “Video Gallery” projects in Germany 
in the late sixties, which I only alluded to in passing in Expanded 
Cinema.



On Jan 13, 2016, at 3:17 PM, robert harris <lagonab...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lagonab...@gmail.com>> wrote:


The “early cinema/early video” query is a good one, one that I’ve not 
seen explored with much rigor.


Kleinhans’ question of “broadcast TV or portapak” is significant.

Early TV might have more in common with radio than with early film.

Early video (portapak) provoked, for some practitioners, 
sensibilities in keeping with those of the Lumieres.


The Lumiere camera was more like video than any other camera 
(including the Edison version) as it was, like video, a capture and 
playback device (and lab).


The promptness with which the Lumieres could playback their 
recordings (if my film mythology serves me) is almost video-like 
(time was a little slower in those days, so they say).


Both early film and early video were made without post-production 
edits, hence were finished in camera.


Video’s instant feedback loop is an unequivocal distinction from film.

To give proper attention to all origin strains of video, you have to 
consider camera-less, raster based work (Nam June Paik, Wolf Vostell 
and others).


The “early cinema” equivalent might be the first people to mark on 
clear leader, some Italian Futurists, Hans Richter, Man Ray etc.


As to cultural “outrage”, it wasn’t uncommon for the people throwing 
things at the artists and making big scenes to be the Surrealists 
themselves.


Some worthy writing of early video (essays you should be able to 
easily find):


Hollis Frampton, /The Withering Away of the State of the Art/

David Antin, /Video: The Distinctive Features of the Medium/




On Jan 13, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Chuck Kleinhans 
<chuck...@northwestern.edu <mailto:chuck...@northwestern.edu>> wrote:


An answer depends on how “early” you’re talking about film (1890s? 
later?), and about video (Broadcast TV or Portapak?).  Probably the 
most significant common feature is the fixed camera position.


The most significant difference (beyond the obvious one of 
resolution) is shot duration.  Video (portpak on) allowed for 
remarkably long shots compared to almost all film.


If you (or anyone) can find it, Noel Burch’s film “Correction 
Please, or How We Got Into Pictures” is a great explanation of the 
evolution of early films' means and style, concentrating on how the 
audience was shaped by the evolving formal elements of cinema.


Chuck Kleinhans
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[Frameworks] Battery for super-8 Beaulieu 4008ZM4

[Fred Camper]

I have one of these cameras. I haven't used it in decades. The batteries 
it came with are presumably dead and unusable? I believe I heard of 
someone who manufactures an alternative for this camera. Does anyone 
know more? Thanks in advance for any help.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] PHD programs

[Fred Camper]

In the US, the best, in terms of both quality and reputation, is 
probably the University of Chicago. And several faculty there are 
interested in avant-garde cinema.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 8/10/2014 9:35 AM, Dorottya Szalay wrote:

Hi Frameworkers,

I am looking for PHD programs in film and visual studies (in English). 
I am from Hungary, currently based in Prague (AVU, FAMU). My research 
focuses on Eastern-Central-European avant-garde film. I found some 
programs but I would appreciate your suggestions.


Thanks a lot!

Dorottya


  Dorottya Szalay
dorottya.sza...@artincinema.com mailto:dorottya.sza...@artincinema.com
www.artincinema.com http://www.artincinema.com
www.kontracinema.com http://www.kontracinema.com
CZ: + 420 739 119 584
  HU: + 36 70 359 9223

http://artincinema.com/




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Re: [Frameworks] Fibonacci Sequence

[Fred Camper]

These are not films, but the 16 Accretions linked to near the top of 
this page


http://fredcamper.com/A/index1.html

are series of photo-based digital prints that have cinema as one key 
inspiration. The use of Fibonacci numbers in them should be obvious.


They do have some aspects of experimental films: no actors, no obvious 
narrative, no sound track


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 8/5/2014 4:26 PM, c b wrote:

Greetings Frameworkers,

I'm looking for experimental films that engage with the Fibonacci 
sequence - suggestions?


Thanks!

Cade


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[Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?

[Fred Camper]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at-deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories

As I understand this, they were considering stopping all film 
manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have 
more information?


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] CBS goes Underground

[Fred Camper]

I agree with Chuck's comments. Given how bad mainstream media can be, 
this report is really quite good, considering that it was meant for an 
evening-news mass audience. Of course nothing profound is said, and 
Warhol could easily seem like a fool to those who don't take seriously 
John Cage's I have nothing to say, and I'm saying it, but as an intro 
it doesn't stumble too badly, and lets people know that something or 
other is happening. They showed the Brakhage likely knowing it would 
seem weird, but I give them credit for the showing, and for respecting 
the film's silence, and for not taking a condescending this is weird 
attitude. Plus, I always did find Heliczer's Dirt to be confusing.


Something from the same decade that will appeal to anyon elooking for 
evidence of mainstream media's horribleness is the Time Magazine feature 
on underground film, in I believe 1964, after the Ford Foundation gave 
a number of $10,000 grants (maybe around $60,000 in today's dollars) to 
some of the major figures. Time, to its eternal disgrace, got a lot of 
attention by sensationalizing the film descriptions, making the work 
seem like sleazy porn, hence dissuading the Ford Foundation from continuing.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/30/2014 6:08 PM, Jeff Kreines wrote:

Thanks to Saul Levine for finding this.

Wow! Brakhage, Mekas, Warhol, Sedgwick, and the Velvets (without 
sound), and more -- along with a little bloviating from Willard Van Dyke.


The Making of an Underground Film from CBS Evening News with Walter 
CronkiteThe Making of an Underground Film from CBS Evening News with 
Walter Cronkite, broadcasted on 31st December 1965. Featuring Jonas 
Mekas, Piero Heliczer with V... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS7knWefSiQ


Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
j...@kinetta.com mailto:j...@kinetta.com
kinetta.com
kinettaarchival.com




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Re: [Frameworks] CBS goes Underground

[Fred Camper]

Jonathan, thanks a lot for posting this, but the article I remember was 
earlier, and even worse. It described the films of filmmakers who had 
just gotten a Ford Foundation grant in outrageous, and outraged, terms. 
I couldn't find it on Time's own site, though I didn't try that hard. 
Maybe I dreamt it all up! I remember in particular early Bruce Conner 
films described as if they were almost porn.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/31/2014 3:20 PM, Jonathan Walley wrote:


After reading Fred's post I ran (well, typed) straight to the online 
database Academic Search Complete to read the Time article. Here it 
is, for anyone interested. It is indeed bad (my favorite description 
is of Brakhage as a husky hypochondriac), but it's about what you'd 
expect from a magazine that ran an article called The Bosom 
Rediscovered in the same issue...


The Art of Light and Lunacy: The New Underground Films (Time 
Magazine, Feb. 1967)


Sunset. A blue Buddha dissolves into a large grey Teddy bear that 
weeps tears the size of a quarter. A little girl stabs a pig. A little 
boy urinates. Sixty white gloves run run run across a table. Bits of 
broken plaster abruptly assemble themselves into a bust of Dante. An 
egg cracks and marbles tumble out. A python oozes lazily around a 
large transparent bowl in which a child is huddled. Beside a giant 
telescope stands an old man, his ears blazing like light bulbs. On a 
narrow cot, a nude woman sits giggling and jiggling while an enormous, 
sinister horseshoe crab . . .


Most people would call it a nightmare. Lloyd Williams, the 26-year-old 
New Yorker who created this sequence of images, calls it a work of 
art. The startling thing is that a great many Americans now agree with 
him. After five years of lurid reports about an underground cinema, 
U.S. moviegoers have caught the show. For the first *time*, a large 
audience has tuned in on experimental film and is beginning to believe 
what a far-out few have been saying for years: the movies are entering 
an era of innovation that attempts to change the language of film and 
reeducate the human eye.


Image  Movement. The Marat of the revolution is Moviemaker (The Brig) 
and Movie Critic (Village Voice) Jonas Mekas, 44, a shy man with long 
greasy hair who looks like a slightly soiled Elijah. In print and in 
person, Mekas passionately proclaims the death of the film as an 
industry and the birth of the film as an art. The new cinema is 
passion, he says, the passion of the free creative act. The old 
cinema, as Mekas sees it, was esthetically no more than an extension 
of the theater. The new cinema, though it will also tell stories, will 
be essentially a cinema of image and movement composed by film poets. 
The new cinema is an art of light, says Mekas grandly, and it is 
bursting on the world like a new dawn.


At first blush, it seemed a dirty-fingered dawn. Two months ago, Mekas 
and some film-making friends leased an art house in midtown Manhattan 
to present The Chelsea Girls (*Time*, Dec. 30), a 3½-hour experimental 
peekture by Pop Painter Andy Warhol. Exclusively, explicitly and 
exhaustively, the film depicts homosexuality, Lesbianism, and 
drug-taking, and a majority of the critics (most of them over 40) 
found it dirty, dull and on-and-onanistic. But moviegoers (most of 
them under 30 and simply prurient) stood in long lines to buy the 
scene. All over the U.S., distributors suddenly sat up and begged for 
prints. In the next six months, The Chelsea Girls will be shown in at 
least 100 theaters—in addition to numerous college film societies. It 
figures to gross at least $1,000,000.


With that one blow the barricades fell, and the avant-garde came 
storming through. Robert Downey's Chafed Elbows, the shaggy-surreal 
saga of a Village idiot who hopes to get rich quick by persuading 
female midgets to use contact lenses as contraceptives, opened in a 
Lower East Side cin bin that was soon crammed by the cab trade from 
uptown. And Shirley Clarke's Jason, a harrowing 120-minute interview 
with a black male prostitute, was offered a midtown opening as a 
hard-eyed cautionary tale and a surefire succes de scandale.


Creating with Clorox. To most moviegoers, these films will look like 
nothing they have ever seen before, even though avant-garde cinema has 
been around for a long *time*—at least since the early '20s, when Luis 
Bunuel and Man Ray began making surrealistic movies in Paris. But a 
substantial movement became possible only in the late '50s, when 
motion-picture technology took an exciting new turn. Film increased in 
sensitivity; cameras, lights, recording equipment diminished in size, 
weight and cost. Suddenly, almost anybody could make movies, and make 
them almost anywhere for almost nothing. Hundreds of young men and 
women began to make them.


Most of the new moviemakers agree that what matters is not the story a 
film tells but the images it throws on the screen. To vary and to 
vitalize

Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

[Fred Camper]

Yes, of course; I should have written editing. My only point is that 
long takes involve editing-like decisions.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/23/2014 2:27 AM, nicky.ham...@talktalk.net wrote:
Well, as Vertov argued, the whole process of film making is editorial 
from start to finish, but that's surely different from what we 
understand as montage, at least in Eisenstein's sense of the term?




-Original Message-
From: Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com
To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Sent: Fri, 23 May 2014 1:58
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

The first Lumiere arguably has two instances of montage: the decision 
made about the points of time at which to start and stop filming. And 
both seem carefully considered choices.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/22/2014 5:41 PM, Francisco Torres wrote:

Montage is used in  those films but only on the sly ;)


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:53 AM, nicky.ham...@talktalk.net 
mailto:nicky.ham...@talktalk.net wrote:


Afew films without montage, or indeed any editing in the
conventional sense: Lumierefilms, All my Life, Serene Velocity,
Sidewalk Shuttle, Wavelength, Central Region, Russian Ark,many
films by James Benning, Malcolm LeGrice, Peter Gidal

NIcky.


-Original Message-
From: Francisco Torres fjtorre...@gmail.com
mailto:fjtorre...@gmail.com
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Sent: Wed, 21 May 2014 19:57
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

''Which principles do I have to bear in mind?''

One principle-Montage.
The stuff Cinema is made of.
Because films ARE made of clashing frames.

If there is a God, it is a God of Montage''.
David Cronenberg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYedfenQ_Mw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHLMrbrAIiU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXlzvvTHg7k


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Julianna Schley
julianna.sch...@gmail.com mailto:julianna.sch...@gmail.com wrote:

I don't know where you live, but I know a great resource in
Brooklyn is the public access channel. If you take an
orientation and a class there (for under $100) you get to use
their equipment. I imagine a lot of other cities have a
similar set-up. That way you can try out a few different
types of cameras, although it's possible that they will be
out of date. I personally don't care about that. For me, just
holding a camera and seeing a frame really changed how I
thought about shooting. Good luck!


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Eleni Philippou
eleni_philip...@hotmail.com
mailto:eleni_philip...@hotmail.com wrote:

Dear all,


I decided to start making my own films. Which camera
shall I buy? Which principles do I have to bear in mind?
Any advice welcome.


Many many thanks,


Eleni Filippou

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Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

[Fred Camper]

The first Lumiere arguably has two instances of montage: the decision 
made about the points of time at which to start and stop filming. And 
both seem carefully considered choices.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/22/2014 5:41 PM, Francisco Torres wrote:

Montage is used in  those films but only on the sly ;)


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:53 AM, nicky.ham...@talktalk.net 
mailto:nicky.ham...@talktalk.net wrote:


Afew films without montage, or indeed any editing in the
conventional sense: Lumierefilms, All my Life, Serene Velocity,
Sidewalk Shuttle, Wavelength, Central Region, Russian Ark,many
films by James Benning, Malcolm LeGrice, Peter Gidal

NIcky.


-Original Message-
From: Francisco Torres fjtorre...@gmail.com
mailto:fjtorre...@gmail.com
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Sent: Wed, 21 May 2014 19:57
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

''Which principles do I have to bear in mind?''

One principle-Montage.
The stuff Cinema is made of.
Because films ARE made of clashing frames.

If there is a God, it is a God of Montage''.
David Cronenberg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYedfenQ_Mw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHLMrbrAIiU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXlzvvTHg7k


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Julianna Schley
julianna.sch...@gmail.com mailto:julianna.sch...@gmail.com wrote:

I don't know where you live, but I know a great resource in
Brooklyn is the public access channel. If you take an
orientation and a class there (for under $100) you get to use
their equipment. I imagine a lot of other cities have a
similar set-up. That way you can try out a few different types
of cameras, although it's possible that they will be out of
date. I personally don't care about that. For me, just holding
a camera and seeing a frame really changed how I thought about
shooting. Good luck!


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Eleni Philippou
eleni_philip...@hotmail.com
mailto:eleni_philip...@hotmail.com wrote:

Dear all,


I decided to start making my own films. Which camera shall
I buy? Which principles do I have to bear in mind?
Any advice welcome.


Many many thanks,


Eleni Filippou

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Re: [Frameworks] Muybridge and moving image art

[Fred Camper]

Larry Jordan anmates and hand-colors Muybridge imagery in his great film 
Sophie's Place, though I'm not sure how much the film a a whole has to 
do with Muybridge. An old review of this film, by me, is at 
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/film-of-changes/Content?oid=871558


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/15/2014 3:13 PM, Jesse Pires wrote:
Hello, I'm looking for suggestions for films, videos and other moving 
image/time-based artworks (historical  contemporary) that are related 
to the work of Eadweard Muybridge (yes, I suppose it's all related to 
Muybridge, technically). Thom Andersen's doc is certainly a great 
start but also thinking about stuff like Gary Beydler's Pasadena 
Freeway Stills. Thanks in advance.


-Jesse Pires


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Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

[Fred Camper]

Film or video? Don't buy anything if you can avoid it. Try borrowing 
cameras, or renting them, to experiment. If you have to buy something 
buy something that is so cheap that you can buy a better one later. Try 
used and junk shops. You need to first discover how you like to work, 
how you like to shoot, what you want to do.


Fred Camper
Chicago


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Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

[Fred Camper]

Learning to edit before starting to shoot on your own may not be for 
everyone, but I think it's an excellent suggestion. You may even want to 
pursue this for a while before shooting, but if you then want to shoot 
on your own, your shooting will be informed by what you have learned to 
do with editing, and will likely be more disciplined as a result.


It's all too easy to shoot a bunch of footage that you then have no idea 
what to do with. This is a frequent beginner's problem.


If you do get a camera right away, one good discipline is trying to make 
very short films that are edited in camera, or as close to edited in 
camera as you can make them.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/5/2014 7:14 PM, LJ Frezza wrote:
If you have a computer, I'm from the school that says you don't even 
need a camera. You can try re-editing footage from a number of sources 
like YouTube, DVDs, etc.
It's a lot cheaper, especially if you can finagle yourself some free 
editing software.

-LJ



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Re: [Frameworks] animals and human-animal relationships on film

[Fred Camper]

Samuel Fuller: White Dog
Georges Franju: Blood of the Beasts
Hollis Frampton: Summer Solstice
Peter Kubelka: Unsere Afrikareise
I second the Jim Trainor suggestion; many of his films, actually.

Stan Brakhage:
Nightcats
Cat's Cradle
Sirius Remembered
Mothlight
Pasht
The Animals of Eden and After
The Shores of Phos: A Fable
The Presence
The Domain of the Moment
The Loom
Tragoedia
Burial Path
Bird
The Cat of the Worm's Green Realm
The Earthsong of the Cricket
The Lion and the Zebra Make God's Raw Jewels
Max
(and doubtless some others that don't come to mind at the moment)

Personally, however, I think we should first of all value the nature 
that our species has gone a long way towards destroying, and the animals 
that are a part of it, for what they uniquely are, before we start 
appropriating (or colonizing?) them as an a kind of distancing tactic 
that allows for reflection on inter-human behaviours, which seems to be 
most of what humans do. Some of the Brakhage films on my list, while 
always human-centric, do make a stab at trying to imagine animals as 
genuinely other than us.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

[Fred Camper]

On 4/23/2014 4:21 PM, Tim Halloran wrote:

You, sir, are obviously neither an educator nor an artist. ;]



There is just about never a reason for an ad hominem attack such as this 
one.


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] KOKDAK Ektachrome Super 8 G

[Fred Camper]

I fell in love with Ektachrome Type G when I was shooting in super-8 in 
the late 1970s and 1980s.


My understanding is that it was developed by Kodak for those consumers 
who could not remember, or understand how, to change the 
daylight/tungsten switch built into super-8 cameras that would put the 
appropriate filter in place, or not, and whose use was required by most 
super-8 color stocks. So Kodak was also able to market a camera designed 
for use with G without the switch.


It's true that G was balanced somewhere between daylight and tungsten, 
but it was much more interesting than that: daylight did not look too 
blue, nor did tungsten look too warm. Depending on your requirements, it 
would be possible to really hate the  color; compared to Kodachrome, 
when photographing living things, it had a vaguely sickly look. That's 
what I loved about it. Stefan guesses right in that it was especially 
interesting with fluorescents. An interior with daylight and several 
types of artificial light, a twilight street scene with daylight, street 
lamps, store windows, and some fluorescents would show G at its best. 
Sunlit pictures of the new baby in a green garden would look a bit 
weird, even muddy. And it was fairly grainy, very grainy compared to 
Kodachrome.


The loss of all those old emulsions, each different, Ektacrome G, 
Ektacrhome SM, Ektachrome ER, Ektachrome MS,  Ektacrhome EF, the strange 
stocks made by Ansco, of course Kodachrome, the Kodachrome-like ECO/7387 
printing system, has robbed filmmakers of what was once a very rich 
palette. Perhaps  a software engineer somewhere is working on an 
Ektachrome G filter for digital video...


Fred Camper
Chicago
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Re: [Frameworks] Turner and Film

[Fred Camper]

Not less known perhaps, but Brakhage is key here.

He cites Turner as an influence in a list of influences, as someone  
mentioned, in my Criterion liner notes. It might be worth recounting  
how that list was composed. I asked him on the phone for his most  
important influences from writers, painters, and composers, and added,  
You only get two of each. For painters he chose Turner and Pollock  
as the two most important. (He also added, on his own, an additional  
art, dance.)


The Text of Light would be the most important film here. Not only  
did he look at Turner, but the variability of light in Turner is  
deeply inscribed in that film. He also spoke of The Text of Light in  
terms of landscape. This aspect of light was explored even more  
radically in the Romans, Arabics, and Egyptians. The imagery in  
those films is far more removed from ideas of landscape.


Fred Camper
Chicago


Quoting Aaron Juneau aaron.jun...@tate.org.uk:



Dear frameworks members,

I'm contacting from Tate Etc. Magazine, London in the hope that  
somebody at Frameworks might be able to help me with some research  
I'm undertaking with regard to an article we're publishing in a  
couple issues time. Essentially the article will focus on J.M.W  
Turner's influence on film. I was wondering whether somebody at  
Frameworks could advise on some interesting, perhaps less known  
filmmakers who have been influenced by him? I'm really looking at  
hard fact and solid evidence as opposed to conjecture.


Any assistance you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

My very best,



Aaron Juneau
Editorial Assistant
TATE ETC. magazine
20 John Islip Street
Millbank
London
SW1P 4RG
T: +44 (0)20 7821 8606
F: +44 (0)20 7887 3940
E: aaron.jun...@tate.org.uk
www.tate.org.uk/tateetc
follow us on Twitter: @TATEETCmag









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Re: [Frameworks] women and crime

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Barbara GMX barbara.kapu...@gmx.at:


... I am interested in alternatives to the standard and classic  
structures of women as victims (even if they are the ones committing  
the murder,…) or of male/female relationships,..


I don't usually reply to queries such as this, in part because of what  
is for me the problematic nature of the search for subject matter  
whose description, the searcher implies, already suggests meanings.  
But for that reason, I would suggest Russ Meyer's 1965 exploitation  
film, the cult classic Faster Pussycat! Kill@ Kill! These physically  
strong ladies definitely kill, kill, but is this a film about female  
strength, or does it serve up strong women for the fetishistic  
enjoyment of the fantasizing male?


Like many of Meyer's films, it does have an experimental beginning,  
in this case abstract images of optical soundtracks, first one, then  
more, seen on the screen...


Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] editing 16mm

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Kevin Obsatz ke...@videohaiku.com:


My goal isn't a perfectly clean, seamless print, but I'm wondering  
if there are any tips I should follow. I heard a rumor once that  
Brakhage would include frames of black leader in between shots to  
make splices less visible - but that could be just a dumb rumor.


It's true, but he used two frames. A cement-spliced shot one frame  
long is probably more likely to break or otherwise become damaged in  
printing.


You can detect these pauses not only in the film strip but on  
screen, and the less-harsh cut with a wink in its middle has a  
different feel than a harder cut And often in the same films Brakhage  
would include cuts made in the camera, thus without the two frames of  
black.


But I concur with the other advice you have gotten about using a pro  
for AB rolling, assuming you're going for a clean clear look.


Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Stashu Kybartas skyb...@me.com:

There is no avant-garde now.  The internet insures that NOTHING will  
stay avant - EVER.


I tried to make this point pre-Internet, in my 1986 article The End  
of Avant-Garde Film in the 20th anniversary issue of Millennium Film  
Journal.
By 1986, in my opinion, common usage was that an experimental or  
avant-garde film was a film with certain features, such as  
scratching or painting on film, a limited or abstracted narrative,  
non-linear editing, very small cast and crew, and others -- some of  
these if not all of them. Scratching on film was by then no longer  
avant-garde, in the sense of new or advanced, and the terms  
experimental and avant-garde has come to denote a style of  
filmmaking. This is neither good nor bad, but one important reason to  
understand it is that artists must realize that techniques already  
used don't justify themselves; everything depends on the total work.


Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Scott Dorsey klu...@panix.com:


My high school girlfriend's father was heard once to say, I don't like
avant-garde music... like later Beethoven.


Actually Beethoven's Opus 131 is far more avant-garde that most  
films, of any type, made today, in the sense that it feels like it is  
pushing into territorries few artists have ever reachedIt is not  
easy to listen to, and certainly not easy to understand.


Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] abstraction and politics

[Fred Camper]

Of course, Brakhage, and of course, 23rd Psalm Branch. I have also  
argued, for example in my liner notes  for the Criterion DVD, that his  
work as a whole constitutes an argument against our object-oriented,  
commodified, static, consumerist culture. This to me is arguably a  
profounder statement than a film that takes a particular position on a  
particular issue of the day.


In his remarks at the premiere of The Text of Light, published in  
several sources, he talks about opposing the typical American view of  
landscape as real estate, something to be divided up and bought and  
sold.


Fred Camper
Camper

Quoting marilyn brakhage v...@shaw.ca:

While they probably wouldn't normally be considered political, some  
Stan Brakhage films are short, abstract works that can be seen, at  
least in part, as meditations on certain cultural histories.  For  
examples:  Unconscious London Strata, In Consideration of  
Pompeii, b Series (containing Retrospect:  The Passover, Blue  
Black Introspection, Blood Drama, I Am Afraid:  And This Is My  
Fear, and Sorrowing), Three Homerics, The Egyptian Series,  
Persian Series and Chinese Series.  . . . And of course, 23rd  
Psalm Branch, perhaps his most political film, does have  
significant abstract passages.


Marilyn Brakhage


On 6-Oct-13, at 7:59 PM, Kelly Sears wrote:


Dear frameworkers,

I would love to pick your collective brain about some film/videos  
that use abstraction to address political, social, or cultural  
histories.   I would double love it if anyone had any suggestions  
of writings on this topic as well.  I'm interested in learning more  
about how this visual strategy and lack of the figurative or  
representational could be used in a political/critical way.


Many thank yous.

Kelly


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Re: [Frameworks] abstraction and politics

[Fred Camper]

Films and writings of (and about) Paul Sharits, Peter Gidal, Malcolm  
LeGrice


Fred Camper
Chicago

Quoting Kelly Sears kelly.se...@gmail.com:


Dear frameworkers,

I would love to pick your collective brain about some film/videos that use
abstraction to address political, social, or cultural histories.   I would
double love it if anyone had any suggestions of writings on this topic as
well.  I'm interested in learning more about how this visual strategy and
lack of the figurative or representational could be used in a
political/critical way.

Many thank yous.

Kelly





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Re: [Frameworks] Writings on TWICE A MAN

[Fred Camper]

Have you tried contacting Anthology Film Archives?

Fred Camper
Chicago

Quoting Maurizio Mercuri mauri...@mercurifilms.com:


Dear friends,
I'm looking for both the transcription of Markopoulos' TWICE A MAN
by Thomas Chomont and the writing by Kenneth Kelman published in Film
Culture, nr. 31, winter 1963-64.
Does someone know if it's possible to find them in paper or digital?
Thank you.

Best,
Maurizio
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Re: [Frameworks] Feet of 16mm film

[Fred Camper]

Quoting David Dvorchak da...@as220.org:


http://www.paulivester.com/films/runtimes.htm


Sure, useful site, fine, but the Web keeps making us stupider; why not  
learn to do the calculations yourself? It's not hard. 20 minutes X 60  
seconds per minute X 24 frames per second divided by 40 frames per  
foot of 16mm = 720 feet.


It's always useful to have in one's head a few key statistics  
regarding one's chosen gauge(s): frames in a foot, length of typical  
reels


Fred Camper
Chicago
(who keeps noticing that though no one follows me in listing location,  
constant questions pop up about where are you located when someone  
wants a repair, or to sell or give away something, necessitating more  
emails...)


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Re: [Frameworks] Singularity and intentional incoherence

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Andy Ditzler a...@andyditzler.com:

 Hello,

 Consider the brief close-up appearance of the cockatoo around the last
 third of Citizen Kane. Cut to bird, loud bird shriek on soundtrack, then
 back to the story. Welles' purpose in this odd cutaway was to wake up the
 audience, exactly as Tom Whiteside describes with his experience. (It has
 a sort of purpose, but no meaning - reference on p. 72 of This Is Orson
 Welles.) I suspect other singularities, at least in the novel use of them
 by Hollywood, have a similar purpose/effect.

There's a little problem with this: just after the screaming bird  
flies away, Kane's second wife, who had felt imprisoned in Xanadu,  
leaves him.

Two masterpieces of what I have called destructive cutting, in which  
shots detract or subtract from or even divide previous shots in  
opposition to both classical Hollywood's additive editing and  
Eisensteinian montage, are Christopher Maclaine's The End and Ron  
Rice's Senseless.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] voyeurism / street photography in exp cinema

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Chuck Kleinhans chuck...@northwestern.edu:

 The title slips my mind, and I'm not around my books at the moment,  
 but Ernie Gehr has a wonderful NYC film that was shot from inside,  
 slightly above street eye level, looking out at people on the street  
 who are mostly elderly and shown in closeup detail, without faces,  
 as they go about daily routines.  It's very loving in attention to  
 detail and motion…respectful.

This is Untitled − Part One (1981)

It's a great film.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] voyeurism / street photography in exp cinema

[Fred Camper]

Quoting David Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com:


 Anyway, there's the Frampton walk-through-NYC film (forget the name),

Ordinary Matter.

That walk through NYC continues to, um, Stonhenge...

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] new critical studies film course in car culture

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Bryan Konefsky bkonef...@gmail.com:

 Hello Frameworkers - I am in the early moments of developing a critical
 studies course that looks at different ways the automobile has been
 imagined in cinema.  To this end I'd love to hear from ya'll with titles of
 films that you think might be useful to explore/expand this idea and
 readings that might also dovetail themes that might be explored.

Transparency (Ernie Gehr)
Kustom Kar Kommandos (Kenneth Anger)
Rebel Without a Cause (Nicholas Ray)
Kiss Me Deadly (Robert Aldrich)
Two Lane Blacktop (Monte Hellman)

Fred Camper
Chicago


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Re: [Frameworks] Ernie Gehr filmography

[Fred Camper]

 Hoping someone might have an up-to-date filmography for Ernie Gehr?
 Thanks
 for your time...


 Best,
 Jacob

OK, it's at http://www.fredcamper.com/Film/GehrFilmography.html

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Ernie Gehr filmography

[Fred Camper]

I've obtained one from Ernie Gehr and will post it in a day or so and link
to it from a post here

Fred Camper
Chicago

 Hoping someone might have an up-to-date filmography for Ernie Gehr?
 Thanks
 for your time...


 Best,
 Jacob


 --
   ---
 Jacob Waltman
 4843 So. Naniloa Drive
 SLC, UT, 84117
 (801)755-3023
 http://making-light-of-it.blogspot.com/
   ---
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Re: [Frameworks] Warren Sonbert - retrospective tour available

[Fred Camper]

...the batch of 9 Brakhage films I've been restoring with Film
 Foundation funding do have titlecards, per their requirement.  I consulted
 with Marilyn about the placement of the cards, and we agreed to compose
 them in very simple language, and put them at the beginning of each film,
 with a gap of five seconds between the titlecard and the start of the
 film.  Seemed like getting it over with at the beginning was a less
 intrusive place than the end to
  stick them.  

This sounds fine to me

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Warren Sonbert - retrospective tour available

[Fred Camper]

The restored Sonbert films that I have seen end with an onscreen credit to
something like The Estate Project for Artists With Aids. I'm all in
favor of crediting everyone who helped, but these screen credits, which as
I recall appear immediately after the final image, are a deeply
disrespectful defacement to the work of a filmmaker who resolutely avoided
using any credits at all, including his own name. They bother me too on
another level: do we have to have all his films identified not by his name
or their titles, but by the disease that killed him?

If such titles have to appear on screen, there should be a respectful
interval of black leader, like ten seconds, before they appear, with
instructions to the projectionist as necessary to insure that they run.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Please help

[Fred Camper]

David,

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I really dislike hoaxes that attempt
humor on lists such as FrameWorks. First of all, some almost always take
them seriously, as has apparently already happened at least once. Second,
life is too short for such creativity. I trust I'm not the only one
among the many hundreds on this list who do not appreciate seeing all
these meaningless emails. Finally, this particular hoax seems to me to be
insulting to the work of a genuinely great filmmaker. Hell, you even
misspelled Crowley's first name.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Film and Digital for beginners

[Fred Camper]

While formerly a strong opponent of seeing films on video (an opposition
that arose in the days of VHS tapes and CRT displays; see my 1985 article
on this at http://www.fredcamper.com/Film/Video.html , which I think still
makes relevant points about film), I now agree with Aaron and others that
video is not any one format. The difference between different video
formats can be wider than, say, the difference between 35mm and super-8.
And some formats come much closer to the effects of film projection than
many would have thought possible. Pip's film fundamentalism now reads
strangely to me, almost as if he is arguing more from theory than from the
actual viewing experience, even though I assume the latter, that he is
arguing based on his own perceptions.

But here's a thought: perhaps the differences between film and whatever
video format you want to consider vary hugely from one viewer to another.
I would certainly respect any filmmaker who has viewed and tried various
video formats and feels they simply cannot produce the effects she wants,
and, of course, vice versa. Peter Kubelka feels that video is not film,
but also, that recorded music is not music. He has classical music
training and has been a performing musician much of his life. I am not
going tell him that he should listen to more CDs. At the same time, a good
performance on LP or CD is more musical to me than a bad performance in
concert, and I've heard more than my fair share of those -- including more
than one attended with Kubelka, who didn't like them either.

I have certainly seen films that could have just as easily been videos
without losing much, and videos that likewise could just have easily been
filmed, and even though my bias is toward art works that you the specifics
of their media, surely some works that are less medium-specific are also
worthy.

Perhaps there is no one answer for all viewers.

I would, however, urge everyone to be flexible, and to consider as
open-mindedly as possible the possibilities of new formats as they come
along.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Flicker Films

[Fred Camper]

Oh, and Stan Brakhage's The Process, combining fragments of photographed
images with solid-color frames that are rapidly edited.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] more on the Academy

[Fred Camper]

 For the record, the Academy Foundation actually does have an
 Institutional Grants program which provides financial support to small
 avant-garde film organizations ...

This is all great to hear, and much appreciated.

I'm not sure Scott is really disagreeing with me. I think it's fine when
avant-garde film is acknowledged. My point is that we should not expect
the Academy or the Oscar telecast to recognize or award avant-garde
filmmakers in the way, from a cinema art point of view, most on the list
might feel is appropriate.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

[Fred Camper]

 Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.

Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
living?

Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?

In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
thread a little bizarre?

I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the Oscar
montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are acknowledged
too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] new post on Brakhage

[Fred Camper]

I certainly heard Brakhage say, more than once, that the inclusion of two
frames of black started as an attempt to hide the splice. He had tried to
work with the visible splice bar in Dog Star Man/The Art of Vision but
didn't feel it appropriate to most of his films. I'm pretty sure he also
said the different effect of the cut became part of it, but even if he
didn't say so explicitly, he surely would have been aware of the
difference. In fact I think that softer cutting in general, whether
separated by black or not, was part of a the aesthetic of his later films,
from The Riddle of Lumen on.

Looking at the strips of his films after the early 70s, you can often
infer that some cuts were made in camera, when there is no visible splice
mark and no black between two shots. You can infer that with even more
certainty when the first frame of the second shot is a little brighter
than the rest, as the camera hasn't gotten up to speed.

With reference to Mark's post, it is my memory that 16mm color negative
was somewhat of a special order item even in the late 60s; you had to get
a minimum of a few rolls. But also, the negative stock in use at the time
was a lot grainier than the professional standard for 16mm, ECO, or than
its cousin Kodachrome, so professionals would not have used it much until
finer grained stocks were released in the 1970s.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Andy Warhol's SLEEP / Providence, RI / Feb 18 / Magic Lantern + RK Projects

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Myron Ort z...@sonic.net:

 ok, I see the problem about the projectors.  Guess I am a bit out of
 touch about that situation these days.

 I guess I was thinking of that story about Stan Brakhage who
 apparently did not at all like the film at 24fps, but when he saw it
 over again at silent speed {presumably 16fps (?) } it was a
 revelation.

As I wrote in another post in this very same thread, Brakhage always,  
and often angrily, denied that there was any truth to this story. He  
said it never happened.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] {Disarmed} Re: Andy Warhol's SLEEP / Providence, RI / Feb 18 / Magic Lantern + RK Projects

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Damon damonc...@gmail.com:

 While this presentation of Sleep certainly differs from the original  
  screenings of the film, it is also far from a Youtube hommage.
 Vexations played an important role in Warhol's conception of the   
 film, and he took from Satie a working method making possible the   
 editing of his short reels into a lengthy film.

 Sorry I don't have time at the moment to unpack this point as I'm   
 running out the door, but here is a link to some supporting   
 literature to this position:
 http://www.warholstars.org/news/johncage.html

Is there some aspect of the text on this link that actually supports  
your claim that Vexations specifically influenced Sleep? It's not  
even clear that Warhol ever heard Vexations.

But even if the answer is yes, that doesn't support playing one  
during a sceening of the other. Would you have Pound's Cantos  
recited during a screening of Dog Star Man? Excerpts from the  
Tibetan Book of the Dead read during George Landow's Bardo Follies?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] {Disarmed} Re: Andy Warhol's SLEEP / Providence, RI / Feb 18 / Magic Lantern + RK Projects

[Fred Camper]

Quoting Eric Theise ericthe...@gmail.com:

 My reading of the announcement is that the Vexations concert in
 Providence is 45 minutes long, and that it precedes the screening.

It that's what it is, it sounds just fine to me.

Fred Camper
Chicago



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Re: [Frameworks] Video Program at Millennium Film Workshop this weekend

[Fred Camper]

I'd like to strongly recommend this program.

Unlike most video art I've seen, Barningham's reveal their materials,  
often including extreme pixilation, but also have a powerfully  
self-destroying,
coming apart effect. And more.

Fred Camper
Chicago

Quoting Jake B. planet_j...@yahoo.com:

 I missed the listing, so I'm sorry for this, but...

 My videos are being screened at the Millennium Film Workshop this  
 weekend and I think they're well worth your while. I've pasted the  
 show description below.



 JAKE BARNINGHAM

 Barningham's work is concerned first and foremost with the textures,
 rhythms and colors possible in video. Largely using re-appropriated
 footage from amateur meteorologists across the country, the videos in
 this program re-invision landscapes not as majestic natural sculptures
 but as objects, like video, that are struggling to exist. Colors and
 shapes snap, gesticulate and then dissolve in a membrane of pixels.
 Trees and clouds shift restlessly against ill-defined spaces and  
 tremble at the hand of invisible forces.  Large fields bathe in  
 scattered rays
 of light which arrive as quickly and as painfully as they vanish.

 Program - Again (2011, 4.5 min, DV, sound), And Again (2011, 3min,  
 DV, sound), Charles Ives' Three Quarter-Tone Pieces Chorale (1924,  
 4.5min, CD), Hills (2011, 2min, DV, silent), Easter (2011, 2min, DV,  
 silent), Color Copy (2011, 3min, DV, silent), Playing (2011, 2min,  
 DV, silent), Arrangements 1 (2011, 3min, DV, silent), Arrangements 2  
 (2011, 2min DV, silent), View from a Cemetery (2011, 4min, DV,  
 silent), A Pass (2011, 2min, DV, silent), Silence  (2011, 2min, DV,  
 silent), All (2011, 2min, DV, silent), Parts (2011, 4min, DV,  
 silent), Tropical (2011, 5min, MiniDV, silent), Back Yard (2011,  
 4min, DV, silent), Wood Cart Group 1. Wood Cart (2011, 5min, DV,  
 silent), 2. Sometimes at Night (2011, 6.5min, DV, silent), 3. I Hear  
 Strange Laughter (2011, 6min, DV, silent), 4. Buster Keaton (2011,  
 5min, DV, silent). 


 The screening is taking place this upcoming Saturday at 8:00 PM at  
 Millennium Film Workshop.


 If you're interested in how the work feels/looks, I've pasted a link  
 to my vimeo page below. Silence, Tropical and All, which are  
 viewable on that page, will be screening in this program. I will  
 also be attending the show if you'd like to discuss the work.


 http://vimeo.com/jakebarningham

 Thanks for your interest and time! I hope to see some of you on Saturday.

 -Jake Barningham


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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

[Fred Camper]

Quoting carli...@aol.com:

 I also think that this look appeal-thing is like wanting to buy  a
 blow-up doll as a substitute for a girlfriend.

I really don't want to restart the film/video thing, but feel the need  
to make a couple of observations.

It seems to be entirely acceptable and unquestioned on this list to  
post that some or all forms of video projection look like crap, as the  
analogy above, film=live girlfriend and video=blow-up doll, confirms.  
Praise of video's own unique possibilities, many of which are  
different from film and can produce results that film cannot, seems  
almost entirely absent.

As a format for presenting film, it is, of course, imperfect, as I  
myself argued almost three decades ago, though that was in the days of  
VHS, a lot worse than more recent formats.

But we need to remember that film is not a girlfriend. It is a strip  
of plastic with a bunch of chemicals, not a lot more substantial  
than digital formats, and almost as alienated from actual human  
presences. The pseudo mystical statements with words like never  
strike me as not substantiatable. We cannot predict what future  
technology will come up with. To the film critic who once defined a  
great film as time spent with people one likes that one wishes would  
never end, I would reply, if you want a real person, go out and spend  
time with one!

One analogy one might consider is to a live concert of classical music  
versus a recording. The difference there is huger than between film  
and high quality video, and some people I respect, John Cage and Peter  
Kubelka to name two, got/get pleasure out of recordings. Yet I can,  
and many times a good recording is preferable to me, and more musical,  
than a bad performance. I once heard one of my heroes, Ton Koopman,  
live, leading his group in some Bach cantatas. I have all his  
recordings of these. Yet, yet, yet, the acoustics in the hall were so  
poor,  much was lost, and in the end I got more pleasure from the  
recordings. Yet of course a recording can never replace, or be the  
same as, a concert with live performers. But recordings are invaluable  
for many reasons, not the least that they permit multiple listenings.

VHS wrecked the aesthetic of many, if not most, films. There are  
perhaps some films whose aesthetic will be mostly or totally lost even  
in 4K projection. I suspect they are very few compared to the films  
destroyed on VHS or even on DVD. A small or even medium-sized loss is  
not a ruination. I hope those who want to work with film will keep it  
alive in various ways. And I don't want to lose film, certainly not  
for preservation of films, and will still always prefer it for films  
shot on film. But we have little influence over what happens on the  
industrial scale, and while we should do what we can, a group of our  
size and influence is not going to stop time. In the end, no one can.

Fred Camper
Chicago



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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

[Fred Camper]

Programmers I know say that it is harder and harder to rent 35mm  
prints. Studios try to offer blu-ray, or, better, 4 K files on hard  
drives. Sometimes they don't make prints anymore. And archives, as a  
result, are now overwhelmed with requests for prints, and are cutting  
back and limiting how often they will send their prints out.

Sadly, we should probably be thinking about whether there are  
improvements to 4K and digital projection systems that will get us  
closer to the look of films that may soon not be available on film, or  
are already unavailable.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm experimental films

[Fred Camper]

Brakhage's Interpolations was painted on film in 35mm and is  
available from the Museum of Modern Art. The detailing is different  
from the hand painting of his 16mm films. Also  his Dante Quartet  
and The Garden of Earthly Delights.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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[Frameworks] Brakhage articles; program of eperimental films at Yale

[Fred Camper]

There is an online publication with a new issue that has many articles  
on Brakhage, including a new one of mine.  They publish in many  
languages, and most of the Brakhage articles are in French. The main  
page is http://www.lafuriaumana.it/index.php/home ; the Brakhage  
articles can be found at  
http://www.lafuriaumana.it/index.php/rapporto-confidenziale-joomla ;  
mine (in Enlgish, and in which I feel as if I've managed to say  
something about Brakhage I haven't said before) is at  
http://www.lafuriaumana.it/index.php/rapporto-confidenziale-joomla/410-mothlight-and-beyond

For those who will be in the vicinity of New Haven on October 8, I'm  
presenting a film program at Yale, free and open to the public:  
http://www.fredcamper.com/L/Fragmentation.html

Fred Camper
Chicago


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