Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Joshua O'Leary]

On 11/05/12 11:42, Holger Marzen wrote:

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Chris Cannam wrote:


On 10 May 2012 12:38, Richard Bown  wrote:

On one point - who hosts the RG website currently and any chance making this 
editable with some non stone-age tools and for multiple users?

I host it. It gets updated automatically from the Subversion repo.
(https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/website)

So can I add a song and some text/images there or would it be better to
setup an own page and link there?

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user


Hi,
I use Rosegarden for composing and find it an incredibly versatile and 
configurable tool. I have a few musical contributions I could make, on 
my website's music page:

http://jmoey.zxq.net/pages/Music.html

They are all GPL3 licensed :)

Joshua
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Holger Marzen]

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Chris Cannam wrote:

> On 10 May 2012 12:38, Richard Bown  wrote:
> > On one point - who hosts the RG website currently and any chance making 
> > this editable with some non stone-age tools and for multiple users?
> 
> I host it. It gets updated automatically from the Subversion repo.
> (https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/website)

So can I add a song and some text/images there or would it be better to
setup an own page and link there?

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[david]

On 05/10/2012 01:10 AM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

> I guess this problem affects all software development, but I wouldn't know
> that, because I'm not a professional by any means.  I guess Rosegarden is my
> rude awakening to all the jubilation and glee I missed out on by being a
> liberal arts major.

English major in creative writing here. So what do I do for a living? 
Work with enterprise content management systems!

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[david]

On 05/10/2012 05:46 AM, Andy wrote:
>
> Richard Bown wrote:
>> Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
>> contribute to new website/direction/developments.
>>
>> Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
>> people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
>> rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here 
>> and you want it here.
>>
>>> Songwriters
>>> Will J Godfrey
>>> Holger Marzen
>>> Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
>>
>> Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?
>>
>>> Current Core Dev
>>> Michael
>>> Tom Breton
>>> Daren Beattie
>>> Ian Gardner
>>
>> A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.
>>
>>> Devs or Interested in Ports
>>> Ian Gardner   Mac Port
>>> David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?
>>> Richard Windows Port.
>>
>> Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?
>>
>>> Website
>>> Brett McCoy
>>> Michael
>>> Chris?
>>> Richard
>>
>> Some idea of what to do with it and how to go forward.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> Yes, I have some thoughts! To briefly introduce myself so I don't look like an
> intruder, I have been a on-off Rosegarden User for many years (and still am
> when I find time for making music) and my tiny contributions so far for RG
> have been two instrument definition files (Korg 05R/W and Yamaha RM50), a RG
> 1.7.3 Package for Mandriva 3 years ago and now a RG package for RHEL 6 and
> clones. I'm not a programmer so can't help on that side (I'm a sysadmin
> professionally).
>
> To get back on subject, I think RG needs to be more visible in the Linux world
> to attract new users and even more importantly make sure that packagers of all
> major Linux distros are aware of new releases, so that the latest version
> swiftly ends up in the repos of current distros.
>
> Without this crucial task most users will never be able to use RG as very few
> users are experienced enough to build from source themselves!
>
> Like I mentioned in another post I have taken the liberty to post the 12.04
> release announcement to Lxer.com and linuxtoday.com. IMHO this should be
> standard practice at every new release as it keeps RG in the news (at least
> occasionally) and it might alert packagers that there is a new version out.
>
> But since it's far from certain that all or even most packagers read these
> Linux newssites, it would maybe be useful to set up a rosegarden-announce
> mailing list just for new release announcements and then contact packagers of
> linux distros that have packaged up previous versions of RG encouraging them
> to subscribe to that list so that they stay informed about new releases.

Announcements on linux-audio-announcements?

During an email chat with one of the KDE4 developers a few years ago, I 
mentioned that Rosegarden 10 was coming out. He said that was great 
news, that RG was "one of our major audio applications." So not just 
musicians think so!

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Abrolag]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 17:18:11 +0200
Richard Bown  wrote:

> Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
> contribute to new website/direction/developments.
> 
> Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
> people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
> rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here and 
> you want it here.
> 
> > Songwriters  
> > Will J Godfrey
> > Holger Marzen
> > Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
> 
> Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

Just checked, and there still is a link to my homepage from Rosegarden's
'Community' page :)

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Abrolag]

On Wed, 9 May 2012 07:20:25 +0200 (CEST)
Holger Marzen  wrote:

> On Tue, 8 May 2012, Abrolag wrote:
> 
> > On the promotional side...
> > For what it's worth, absolutely every track on my website - and there are 
> > one or
> > two there :) - was developed and performed using Rosegarden. This includes
> > controlling both hardware and soft synths, hydrogen drum machine and 
> > embedded
> > audio.
> 
> As a 50 years old man I started again making music after 25 years of
> being busy with other things. Its now a few weeks since I noticed
> Rosegarden, and I liked it from the first moment on. To get rid of big
> latencies and jitter I used fluidsynth as a plugin. This is the only
> synth I used in the song "Die Nacht am Meer", even for the drums. My wife
> was so happy with the results that she placed the song on her blog:
> 
> http://sally13.de/blog/?p=2935
> 
> (http://sally13.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/die_nacht_am_meer.mp3)
> 
> Of course she placed a Rosegarden-Link as well there.
> 
> I am very, very happy that development goes on. Unfortunately I cannot
> install all the neccessary header files on my Ubuntu 11.10 to compile
> the most recent version of Rosegarden because of dependency conflicts. I
> guess on this Ubuntu there's still a little mess when you have 64 and 32
> bit software mixed
> 
> However, Rosegarden is my favourite tool.
> 
> Regards
> Holger

Enjoyed this. Very nice vocal harmonies.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Chris Cannam]

On 10 May 2012 16:18, Richard Bown  wrote:
> Devs or Interested in Ports

I'm not particularly interested in a Mac port and don't especially
want one, but I'm certainly competent to make one and would try to
help out if there was more general interest.

(Why not particularly interested? I just don't see much evidence from
other projects that it increases the active developer base, it'll only
make for difficulties with users because it's not a very "Mac-like"
app)


Chris

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

I can try and recruit some Mac developers but I am not a developer myself.
I know how to compile things but not write code.
I could also contribute something in the songwriting area.

Another thought is that Debian used to post a list of consultants (probably
still does) where people could go for learning or support. Perhaps
Rosegarden could add that to the web site. I could easily do trainings in
the New England/New York area. If we had a list of people who were  willing
and able to present on the software, we could expand the user base which
should attract some new developers.

Dave

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Brett McCoy  wrote:

> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Holger Marzen  wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 May 2012, Richard Bown wrote:
> >
> Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could
> contribute to new website/direction/developments.
>
> Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some
> people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball
> rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here
> and you want it here.
>
> Songwriters
>
> Will J Godfrey
>
> Holger Marzen
>
> Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
>
>
> Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?
>
> Current Core Dev
>
> Michael
>
> Tom Breton
>
> Daren Beattie
>
> Ian Gardner
>
>
> A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.
>
> Devs or Interested in Ports
>
> Ian Gardner   Mac Port
>
> David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?
>
> Richard Windows Port.
>
>
> Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?
> >> Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could
> contribute to new website/direction/developments.
> >>
> >> Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out
> some people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball
> rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here
> and you want it here.
> >>
> >> > Songwriters
> >> > Will J Godfrey
> >> > Holger Marzen
> >> > Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
> >>
> >> Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?
> >
> > Yep. Songs to be downloaded. And maybe hints and some technical notes
> > how the songs were made. Maybe screenshots.
>
> I can definitely contribute under this area also. Every piece of music
> I have online (and it's quite a bit) was done with Rosegarden and
> Ardour.
>
> --
> Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
> 
> "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
> it would overturn the world."
> -- Jelaleddin Rumi
>
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Brett McCoy]

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Holger Marzen  wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Richard Bown wrote:
>
>> Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
>> contribute to new website/direction/developments.
>>
>> Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
>> people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
>> rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here 
>> and you want it here.
>>
>> > Songwriters
>> > Will J Godfrey
>> > Holger Marzen
>> > Neil Bryan      User/Supporter
>>
>> Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?
>
> Yep. Songs to be downloaded. And maybe hints and some technical notes
> how the songs were made. Maybe screenshots.

I can definitely contribute under this area also. Every piece of music
I have online (and it's quite a bit) was done with Rosegarden and
Ardour.

-- 
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com

"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
    -- Jelaleddin Rumi

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Holger Marzen]

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Richard Bown wrote:

> Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
> contribute to new website/direction/developments.
> 
> Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
> people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
> rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here and 
> you want it here.
> 
> > Songwriters  
> > Will J Godfrey
> > Holger Marzen
> > Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
> 
> Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

Yep. Songs to be downloaded. And maybe hints and some technical notes
how the songs were made. Maybe screenshots.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Andy]

Richard Bown wrote:
> Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
> contribute to new website/direction/developments.
> 
> Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
> people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
> rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here and 
> you want it here.
> 
>> Songwriters  
>> Will J Godfrey
>> Holger Marzen
>> Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
> 
> Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?
> 
>> Current Core Dev
>> Michael 
>> Tom Breton   
>> Daren Beattie
>> Ian Gardner  
> 
> A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.
> 
>> Devs or Interested in Ports 
>> Ian Gardner   Mac Port
>> David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?
>> Richard Windows Port.
> 
> Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?
> 
>> Website
>> Brett McCoy
>> Michael 
>> Chris?
>> Richard  
> 
> Some idea of what to do with it and how to go forward.
> 
> Thoughts?

Yes, I have some thoughts! To briefly introduce myself so I don't look like an
intruder, I have been a on-off Rosegarden User for many years (and still am
when I find time for making music) and my tiny contributions so far for RG
have been two instrument definition files (Korg 05R/W and Yamaha RM50), a RG
1.7.3 Package for Mandriva 3 years ago and now a RG package for RHEL 6 and
clones. I'm not a programmer so can't help on that side (I'm a sysadmin
professionally).

To get back on subject, I think RG needs to be more visible in the Linux world
to attract new users and even more importantly make sure that packagers of all
major Linux distros are aware of new releases, so that the latest version
swiftly ends up in the repos of current distros.

Without this crucial task most users will never be able to use RG as very few
users are experienced enough to build from source themselves!

Like I mentioned in another post I have taken the liberty to post the 12.04
release announcement to Lxer.com and linuxtoday.com. IMHO this should be
standard practice at every new release as it keeps RG in the news (at least
occasionally) and it might alert packagers that there is a new version out.

But since it's far from certain that all or even most packagers read these
Linux newssites, it would maybe be useful to set up a rosegarden-announce
mailing list just for new release announcements and then contact packagers of
linux distros that have packaged up previous versions of RG encouraging them
to subscribe to that list so that they stay informed about new releases.

Regards,
Andy


--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
contribute to new website/direction/developments.

Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball rolling 
so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here and you want 
it here.

> Songwriters  
> Will J Godfrey
> Holger Marzen
> Neil Bryan  User/Supporter

Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

> Current Core Dev
> Michael 
> Tom Breton   
> Daren Beattie
> Ian Gardner  

A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.

> Devs or Interested in Ports 
> Ian Gardner   Mac Port
> David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?
> Richard Windows Port.

Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?

> Website
> Brett McCoy
> Michael 
> Chris?
> Richard  

Some idea of what to do with it and how to go forward.

Thoughts?

R--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Chris Cannam]

[cc -devel]

On 10 May 2012 13:41, Ian Gardner  wrote:
> I guess people like me are part of the problem in this regard, turn up one 
> day, chuck something in to do with linked segments and then f. off into the 
> sunset. Fly-by-night, here today and gone tomorrow contributors :-(

Well, you could say anyone who ever wrote any of the code is part of
the problem by now! I know I am.

> I guess one possible way to ameliorate the "bejeesus, this codebase is an 
> unmaintainable spaghetti!" problem is automated testing.

Well, as you know, the difficulty with automated unit testing is the
sheer effort involved in writing tests (after the fact) that cover
more than a tiny percentage of possible cases.

[On another project I'm currently in the middle of porting some
existing unit tests to a different test framework (without changing
their content) just to sit better with the rest of the code. I can't
believe how much work it is -- I never really noticed the initial
effort of writing the tests for that code because I did it at the same
time as writing the code under test, but when you look at it
afterwards there's a heck of a lot of it and I simply can't imagine
doing it all at once after the fact, even if it didn't actually take
any real thought.]

I do like the suggestion of using slightly higher-level test cases
with synthetic series of commands though (given serialisable command
classes). Apart from anything else, then you could supplement
"human-designed" tests with pseudo-random command sequences or fuzz
tests, which would give quite a good tradeoff of effort against
effectiveness.


Chris

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Ian Gardner]

>I guess this problem affects all software development, but I wouldn't know 
>that, because I'm not a professional by any means.  I guess Rosegarden is my 
>rude awakening to all the jubilation and glee I missed out on by being a 
>liberal arts major.
>
>No great loss.  Software is a pain in the ass.
>-- 
>D. Michael McIntyre


I guess people like me are part of the problem in this regard, turn up one day, 
chuck something in to do with linked segments and then f. off into the sunset. 
Fly-by-night, here today and gone tomorrow contributors :-(

While dusting off my jack-midi code I noticed I was also halfway through 
implementing a scheme for copy/pasting linked segments more flexibly, but I got 
scared of committing it for fear of bringing the whole pack-o-cards down around 
my ears.

If it's any consolation (which I'm sure it isn't), I'm currently making my 
living from code development, and the codes I work on which pay my wages are 
much much MUCH worse than Rosegarden under the hood. Doing it for a living 
though you do at least get the pleasant face-to-face company of your fellow 
developers to share a laugh with at tea break time. That helps A LOT.


I guess one possible way to ameliorate the "bejeesus, this codebase is an 
unmaintainable spaghetti!" problem is automated testing. Given that RG is 
command driven it might be possible to put a command serialisation scheme in 
place to generate a sort of "composition building script" (basically a dump of 
the command stack).  Merely requires a pure virtual serialise() 
function in the Command class, and the appropriate implementation in all 
150,000 commands currently in RG . Then if you do some work and the 
tests still pass, you can't have done too much wrong, even if you don't 
understand every other part of the code, you just know you haven't broken it 
too badly. Which part of the whole RG workflow is being the most unstable atm? 
Composition creation/editing? Recording/playback?


Ian.


--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

> But don't forget that overhauling websites (regardless of tools) is a
> time sink almost comparable to developing software, especially since
> everyone always has an opinion...

Agreed.  And I wasn't offering but some people have and so that's why I thought 
I'd put together a proposal for potentially taking things forward.

R
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Chris Cannam]

On 10 May 2012 12:38, Richard Bown  wrote:
> On one point - who hosts the RG website currently and any chance making this 
> editable with some non stone-age tools and for multiple users?

I host it. It gets updated automatically from the Subversion repo.
(https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/website)

I don't disagree in principle that the site could usefully be shinier
and easier to edit -- it does date from 2004 after all.

But don't forget that overhauling websites (regardless of tools) is a
time sink almost comparable to developing software, especially since
everyone always has an opinion...


Chris

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

> liberal arts major.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu1VhsNOwPU

> No great loss.  Software is a pain in the ass.

It is.  And any professional software of this size and complexity would be 
equally gnarly.  It's just the way it is and we all learn to accept this 
eventually because for some of us it enables us to earn money.  I no longer 
complain how shit software is because I know it's keeping me employed.

On that score you could very easily get a job as a software developer if you do 
wished!

Right - I'm going to crawl through this weeks conversations on rg-devel and 
rg-user and see if I can put some names next to things to do.  Or at least get 
a feel for level of support for future directions.

On one point - who hosts the RG website currently and any chance making this 
editable with some non stone-age tools and for multiple users?

R

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Wednesday, May 09, 2012, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

> ...It's a prettier example of the same sort of breed as that car.

After a bit more reflection, it occurs to me the real problem is not the 
eclectic design, but that every neat little gizmo bolted onto this thing was 
manufactured by a different company.  We've got imperial and metric 
measurements, different voltage standards, three-phase motors that have to be 
fed with a rotary converter, etc.

All the parts were made to different standards, and most of the manufacturers 
are long since out of business, so if you call the number stamped on the part 
to ask someone a question, you're going to get a disconnected message, and 
then you're going to have to figure it out for yourself, or build a new part 
from scratch.  I usually get stuck doing the latter myself, because I'm just 
no good at getting into other people's heads.

I guess this problem affects all software development, but I wouldn't know 
that, because I'm not a professional by any means.  I guess Rosegarden is my 
rude awakening to all the jubilation and glee I missed out on by being a 
liberal arts major.

No great loss.  Software is a pain in the ass.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, Richard Bown wrote:

> On 8 May 2012, at 22:46, Chris Cannam  wrote:
> > But you and I have had a lot of time off from this project, and I
> > guess both of us did that because we felt a bit like Michael
> 
> Indeed.  It's a soul wrecker this software.

It really is.  I think a lot of the key to why can be found in all those 
messages from people saying ditch this but please save that.

Rosegarden does a little bit of everything, and everything it does is 
important to someone.

It strikes me that the result is something like cartoon car Homer Simpson 
built:

http://onscreencars.com/tv/the-homer-the-car-built-for-homer/

I think Rosegarden is a much more elegant example of something that has every 
kind of whiz bang gizmo and dongle bolted onto it somewhere, but it's a 
prettier example of the same sort of breed as that car.

Everyone can agree that Rosegarden is a ridiculously difficult mess to 
maintain, but nobody will EVER agree on how to simplify it into something more 
manageable.  Over the years, I have managed to dispose of exactly one extreme 
fringe feature without anybody ever noticing.  (I'm not going to say what it 
was, or someone will surely notice, and complain.)

Rosegarden is actually rather useful for being this crazy hodge podge, and 
that's the ultimate bitch of it all.  Everything Rosegarden does really is 
useful to someone, and I've used almost all of the features myself at one 
point or another, and sometimes used most of them within the same project.

I don't think it's possible to change the nature of this beast at this point, 
but this beast sure is a snarly bastard.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Holger Marzen]

On Tue, 8 May 2012, Abrolag wrote:

> On the promotional side...
> For what it's worth, absolutely every track on my website - and there are one 
> or
> two there :) - was developed and performed using Rosegarden. This includes
> controlling both hardware and soft synths, hydrogen drum machine and embedded
> audio.

As a 50 years old man I started again making music after 25 years of
being busy with other things. Its now a few weeks since I noticed
Rosegarden, and I liked it from the first moment on. To get rid of big
latencies and jitter I used fluidsynth as a plugin. This is the only
synth I used in the song "Die Nacht am Meer", even for the drums. My wife
was so happy with the results that she placed the song on her blog:

http://sally13.de/blog/?p=2935

(http://sally13.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/die_nacht_am_meer.mp3)

Of course she placed a Rosegarden-Link as well there.

I am very, very happy that development goes on. Unfortunately I cannot
install all the neccessary header files on my Ubuntu 11.10 to compile
the most recent version of Rosegarden because of dependency conflicts. I
guess on this Ubuntu there's still a little mess when you have 64 and 32
bit software mixed

However, Rosegarden is my favourite tool.

Regards
Holger

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[PMA]

Richard Bown wrote:
>>
>>> There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go
>> somewhere
>>> and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my
>> family as
>>> a kid.  That was 1987.
>>
>> Well, your constitution must be incredible.
>> After that, I'd have been in a Happy Farm
>> long since!
>
>
> I got converted into taking holidays by my wife - I never saw the point
> twenty years ago.  Now I don't want to stay home.  That's where your rg
> development time went..
>
> R

Nah, I don need no dvlpmint.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[PMA]

Chris Cannam wrote:
> On 8 May 2012 18:57, D. Michael McIntyre
>   wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, PMA wrote:
>>
>>> Waay too hard on yourself.
>>> You need a (free) weekend in Acapulco!
>>
>> There is real truth in that.
>
> Hang on, did I miss something? Is someone offering a free weekend in Acapulco?
>
>
> Chris

No no, it was a *recommendation* (advisitude, wisdom-thingy, ...).

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

On 8 May 2012, at 22:46, Chris Cannam  wrote:

> But you and I have had a lot of time off from this project, and I
> guess both of us did that because we felt a bit like Michael

Indeed.  It's a soul wrecker this software.

R

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Chris Cannam]

On 8 May 2012 08:23, Richard Bown  wrote:
>> I have failed.
>
> What absolute self indulgent rubbish.

Though a very nicely constructed extended metaphor.

I think you're sort-of right that the proper answer ought to be a nice
brisk one about how it's just going the way it has to go and if it
isn't working out for you, well, those are the breaks. And it's been
around this long, people are still enjoying it and developers are
doing new things -- what should we do next to build on this?

But you and I have had a lot of time off from this project, and I
guess both of us did that because we felt a bit like Michael -- as if
every little bug fix ended up being an exploratory dive down a
stinking rabbit hole and each small new idea was a major project to be
written up on a board in marker pen and deliberated over for three
months because it would inevitably break half a dozen other things.
This isn't a codebase that lends itself well to an enjoyable agile
process.

I'm with PMA that you're being far too hard on yourself, Michael -- in
a project like this you don't need to be in a position where you have
an answer for everything. You've been pretty vital to this program's
survival so far, but you know, it is only a computer program -- you
could walk away tomorrow and just see what happens to it. It'd
probably stick around one way or another, and if it didn't, that might
be enough to suggest it didn't matter much to enough people in the
first place. I'm not suggesting you should necessarily do that, but it
might be no bad thing to remember that you can.


Chris

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Chris Cannam]

On 8 May 2012 18:57, D. Michael McIntyre
 wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, PMA wrote:
>
>> Waay too hard on yourself.
>> You need a (free) weekend in Acapulco!
>
> There is real truth in that.

Hang on, did I miss something? Is someone offering a free weekend in Acapulco?


Chris

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Mario Moles]

Hello everyone! 
That's a lot that does not speak in this ml-list! 
I also have something to say on the future of rosegarden. I really like 
rosegarden. But I'm a maniac lilypond, mainly by Frescobaldi, because 
exploitation of power by lilypond rosegarden is, forgive me, ridiculous and 
depressing:
1) the management of the position of breaks does not exist and creates file.pdf 
terrible.
2) is also not possible to setup the page layout.
My use of rosegarden boils down to this:
1) Rapid re-edit of file.midi frescobaldi created for a quick check of the 
sound changes.
I repeat: I really like rosegarden, but I also think that a better integration 
of lilypond would attract many potential users.
Best regards and w rosegarden!
-- 
oiram/bin/selom
Da ognuno secondo le proprie capacità ad ognuno secondo i propri bisogni.
MIB 
Frescobaldi 
Rosegarden --
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

>
> > There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go
> somewhere
> > and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my
> family as
> > a kid.  That was 1987.
>
> Well, your constitution must be incredible.
> After that, I'd have been in a Happy Farm
> long since!


I got converted into taking holidays by my wife - I never saw the point
twenty years ago.  Now I don't want to stay home.  That's where your rg
development time went..

R
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[PMA]

D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, PMA wrote:
>
>> Waay too hard on yourself.
>> You need a (free) weekend in Acapulco!
>
> There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go somewhere
> and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my family as
> a kid.  That was 1987.

Well, your constitution must be incredible.
After that, I'd have been in a Happy Farm
long since!

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Abrolag]

On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:53:39 +0200
Lorenzo Sutton  wrote:

> On 08/05/12 02:36, David Tisdell wrote:
> ...
> > One of the things I like about RG is that it
> > adapts well whatever your approach to composition.
> 
> +1 very well said.
> Lorenzo.

Indeed.

On the promotional side...
For what it's worth, absolutely every track on my website - and there are one or
two there :) - was developed and performed using Rosegarden. This includes
controlling both hardware and soft synths, hydrogen drum machine and embedded
audio.

Also my site has a fairly prominent link to the Rosegarden project page.

When pushing my stuff anywhere else, I frequently mention Rosegarden and
Yoshimi (I try not to sound like a born-again-evangelist).

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, PMA wrote:

> Waay too hard on yourself.
> You need a (free) weekend in Acapulco!

There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go somewhere 
and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my family as 
a kid.  That was 1987.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Ian Gardner  wrote:

> is to write an implementation for the virtual midi/sequencer interface in
> rg in terms of Jack, and you can have a fully portable codebase to all
> platforms out of the box (with the help of cygwin on windows) with midi and
> audio magically working, peace in the middle east, the world's hungry fed
> and the moon on a f*g stick to boot. I'm not advocating Jack as The Way
> forward btw before the flamethrower is turned in my direction, it just
> occurs as a possibility.
>

Indeed.

I just wanted to get rid of all that crap.   Jack is callback based, Alsa
demands you check queue timings and keep them topped up/emptied - on top of
that you've got to do all the plugin stuff and audio processing yourself in
your own thread(s).  By the time I'd looked at it all again I'd pretty much
decided that the best way forward was to ditch all the interfaces and go as
simple as possible.  Of course after I decided that Chris suggested I do it
all with JACK audio and midi (which incidently was also my first take on
things) however implementing JACK midi wasn't a shoe-in as far as I could
remember.

Anyway - the rtmidi implementation so far is rough and ready - just a proof
of concept.  It needs quite a lot of tightening but in theory that should
be a bit simpler.  Also down the line integration with audio might (I say
might) make more sense.  Just not got around to doing any more in the last
six months - where did _that_ go?

In fact, now I'm reminded of all this, I do have the embryonic beginnings
> of an implementation of the midi stuff in rg in terms of jack somewhere on
> my machine. Should time permit this week (another hearty LOL) I'll dust it
> off and see where I got to with it. I fancy seeing how jack behaves on the
> mac anyways.
>

Good stuff.  Looking forward to seeing some results!

R
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Ian Gardner]

I've managed to compile rosegarden under our good friend cygwin on windows in 
the past, it compiled pretty much out of the box. No sequencing of course, but 
it all looked right. I also have access to a couple of macs here at work so if 
no one's looking one lunchtime I could see how far the compilation gets on the 
mac. The fact it compiles ok under cygwin leads me to imagine it might compile 
under a mac ok too.


I harbour an entirely unproven, speculative and unjustified opinion that all 
that needs to be done (LOL - toungue firmly in cheek there with the use of the 
word *all*)  is to write an implementation for the virtual midi/sequencer 
interface in rg in terms of Jack, and you can have a fully portable codebase to 
all platforms out of the box (with the help of cygwin on windows) with midi and 
audio magically working, peace in the middle east, the world's hungry fed and 
the moon on a f*g stick to boot. I'm not advocating Jack as The Way forward 
btw before the flamethrower is turned in my direction, it just occurs as a 
possibility.

In fact, now I'm reminded of all this, I do have the embryonic beginnings of an 
implementation of the midi stuff in rg in terms of jack somewhere on my 
machine. Should time permit this week (another hearty LOL) I'll dust it off and 
see where I got to with it. I fancy seeing how jack behaves on the mac anyways.


(don't) watch this space... :-p




>
> From: Richard Bown 
>To: David Tisdell  
>Cc: "rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net" 
> 
>Sent: Tuesday, 8 May 2012, 16:49
>Subject: Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future
> 
>
>Yes, but for the windows port so far audio isn't in scope.  And if it was I 
>probably wouldn't do it with JACK I have to say.  Purely because I've got 
>bored of fancy APIs for stuff and different models you're forced to adopt to 
>use them,  ALSA and JACK did it for me.
>
>
>Midi with Rtmidi and ? for audio.  Maybe portaudio.  Cross that bridge as and 
>when.  And if.
>
>
>Agree that website and docs and tutorials require a refresh. IMHO would be 
>nice to have a clean, modern, fresh approach to website and shift the black 
>/italics.  But yes, we've been here before..
>
>
>
>
>
>On 8 May 2012, at 17:31, David Tisdell  wrote:
>
>
>I agree on the "More bang for the buck" on a Windows port but JACK already 
>runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise, 
>the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that is 
>true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It may be 
>easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I can't say for 
>sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block on Windows 
>because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.
>>
>>
>>On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy  wrote:
>>
>>On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell  
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps as a starting point we could "shake the tree" for developers on
>>>> Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of origin.
>>>> The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are 
>>>> worked
>>>> out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do that
>>>> but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working on
>>>> the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get 
>>>> more
>>>> involved.
>>>
>>>I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
>>>can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
>>>maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
>>>we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
>>>Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
>>>2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
>>>every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
>>>help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
>>>stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
>>>like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
>>>worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
>>>definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
>>>since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
>>>and have MIDI & Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
>>>provide.
>>>
>>&g

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Chris Cannam]

On 8 May 2012 17:18, David Tisdell  wrote:
> The attempt at a Mac port was done before the codebase had been moved to qt.
> It was installed through fink. I exchanged email with the person who had
> tried it and he had run into significant  problems because of KDE
> dependencies and he gave up.

I think Brett was referring to more recent history -- I've compiled
the Rosegarden Qt4 codebase on OS/X before, without audio and MIDI
support. It's not hard to do. You can see a picture I uploaded at the
time (in 2009) at http://all-day-breakfast.com/m/thorn-osx-blah.png.

Presumably the RtMidi support in the current Windows build could also
serve for OS/X MIDI support, if one wasn't bothered about audio,
although there are various other possible options.


Chris

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

The attempt at a Mac port was done before the codebase had been moved to
qt. It was installed through fink. I exchanged email with the person who
had tried it and he had run into significant  problems because of KDE
dependencies and he gave up.
Nice to hear about the commercial version of Ardour that runs on Windows.
That gives lots of hope for doing the same with Rosegarden; especially
since Richard is focusing on the MIDI components first.

Dave

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Richard Bown <
richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com> wrote:

> Yes, but for the windows port so far audio isn't in scope.  And if it was
> I probably wouldn't do it with JACK I have to say.  Purely because I've got
> bored of fancy APIs for stuff and different models you're forced to adopt
> to use them,  ALSA and JACK did it for me.
>
> Midi with Rtmidi and ? for audio.  Maybe portaudio.  Cross that bridge as
> and when.  And if.
>
> Agree that website and docs and tutorials require a refresh. IMHO would be
> nice to have a clean, modern, fresh approach to website and shift the black
> /italics.  But yes, we've been here before..
>
>
>
> On 8 May 2012, at 17:31, David Tisdell  wrote:
>
> I agree on the "More bang for the buck" on a Windows port but JACK already
> runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise,
> the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that
> is true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It
> may be easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I
> can't say for sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block
> on Windows because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Perhaps as a starting point we could "shake the tree" for developers on
>> > Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of
>> origin.
>> > The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are
>> worked
>> > out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do
>> that
>> > but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working
>> on
>> > the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get
>> more
>> > involved.
>>
>> I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
>> can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
>> maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
>> we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
>> Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
>> 2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
>> every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
>> help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
>> stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
>> like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
>> worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
>> definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
>> since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
>> and have MIDI & Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
>> provide.
>>
>> --
>> Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
>> 
>> "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
>> it would overturn the world."
>> -- Jelaleddin Rumi
>>
>>
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> ___
>> Rosegarden-user mailing list
>> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>>
>
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>
>
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live 

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

Yes, but for the windows port so far audio isn't in scope.  And if it was I 
probably wouldn't do it with JACK I have to say.  Purely because I've got bored 
of fancy APIs for stuff and different models you're forced to adopt to use 
them,  ALSA and JACK did it for me.

Midi with Rtmidi and ? for audio.  Maybe portaudio.  Cross that bridge as and 
when.  And if.

Agree that website and docs and tutorials require a refresh. IMHO would be nice 
to have a clean, modern, fresh approach to website and shift the black 
/italics.  But yes, we've been here before..



On 8 May 2012, at 17:31, David Tisdell  wrote:

> I agree on the "More bang for the buck" on a Windows port but JACK already 
> runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise, 
> the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that is 
> true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It may be 
> easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I can't say for 
> sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block on Windows 
> because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.
> 
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy  wrote:
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell  
> wrote:
> 
> > Perhaps as a starting point we could "shake the tree" for developers on
> > Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of origin.
> > The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are worked
> > out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do that
> > but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working on
> > the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get more
> > involved.
> 
> I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
> can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
> maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
> we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
> Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
> 2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
> every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
> help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
> stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
> like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
> worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
> definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
> since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
> and have MIDI & Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
> provide.
> 
> --
> Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
> 
> "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
> it would overturn the world."
> -- Jelaleddin Rumi
> 
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
> 
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Brett McCoy]

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:31 AM, David Tisdell  wrote:

> I agree on the "More bang for the buck" on a Windows port but JACK already
> runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise,
> the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that is
> true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It may
> be easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I can't say
> for sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block on Windows
> because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.

I remember a while back one of the developers (Chris?) had gotten
Rosegarden to compile on OS X. I don't think the effort got any
further than that.

BTW, MixBus (a commercial version of Ardour 2.8) now runs on Windows,
and uses a bundled version of jackd (which has been available on
Windows for a while now). I think the biggest requirement a Windows
version of any free audio software will have is the ability to load
VST instrument and FX plugins.

-- 
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com

"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
    -- Jelaleddin Rumi

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

I agree on the "More bang for the buck" on a Windows port but JACK already
runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise,
the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that
is true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It
may be easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I
can't say for sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block
on Windows because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy  wrote:

> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell 
> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps as a starting point we could "shake the tree" for developers on
> > Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of
> origin.
> > The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are
> worked
> > out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do that
> > but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working
> on
> > the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get
> more
> > involved.
>
> I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
> can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
> maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
> we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
> Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
> 2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
> every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
> help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
> stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
> like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
> worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
> definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
> since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
> and have MIDI & Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
> provide.
>
> --
> Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
> 
> "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
> it would overturn the world."
> -- Jelaleddin Rumi
>
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[PMA]

D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
> ...
> I have failed.

Waay too hard on yourself.
You need a (free) weekend in Acapulco!

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[PMA]

David Tisdell wrote:
> When I am writing, I almost always begin with the notation editor. Vitally
> important tool. One of the things I like about RG is that it adapts well
> whatever your approach to composition.
>
Fascinating -- that people work *so* differently.
I write J-language programs that output .ly files,
yank LilyPond's MIDI output into RG, and then
mangle forth in the matrix editor.

Crazy, what?

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Thomas Sattler]

I'd think there is more bang for the buck in focusing on the Windows port
rather than starting a new Mac port.  Although since OSX is really just BSD
Unix with a pretty face, it might be easier to do.





On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Richard Bown <
richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com> wrote:

> The Windows alpha is something I knocked together with a view to
> completing at least the MIDI portion at some point this year.
>
> Mac I can't do anything about at the moment as I don't have one.  However
> perhaps that's a good angle to pursue with Kickstarter if there are more
> developers interested in this.  I can see perhaps the kernel of an idea
> forming there.
>
> R
>
> On 8 May 2012, at 15:23, Thomas Sattler  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I played around a bit with the Windows alpha and it seemed to work pretty
> well; I believe that project is ongoing but there are others who are more
> familiar with its progress than I.
>
> --Tom
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:21 AM, David Tisdell wrote:
>
>> What it all seems to come down to is attracting more developers. It seems
>> to me that there needs to be a multipronged approach.
>> To attract more developers, it could help to expand the user base. If we
>> had people evangelizing Rosegarden to the end user, we could expand the
>> user base. I have presented on Rosegarden at several conferences in New
>> England (mostly in VT) but I am one guy living in a small rural state. If
>> there were others like me in different places doing this somewhat
>> regularly, the user base would enlarge.
>>
>> The quality of the program speaks for itself. It is the best music
>> program I have ever used on any platform. I know some folks might think
>> this is heresy but it would be great if we could attract enough OS X and
>> Windows developers to have ports to both platforms (I know about the
>> Windows port in the works, yay). The most successful and widely used
>> opensource programs run on Linux, OS X, and Windows.
>>
>> Not having ports on those platforms is an obstacle to wider adoption. I
>> am a public school music teacher and when I present at a conference, the
>> moment I say Linux, most of the educators in my audience are tuned out
>> unless they are using Linux in their school. I'll get comments like "It's
>> cool but I need it in Windows (or Mac)"
>>
>> I don't expect Michael to try and take on that type of project. He
>> doesn't have the time. As a community of users, it our responsibility to
>> make sure Rosegarden survives, grows and moves forward. If we all do what
>> we can, (make a donation, evangelize the software, or code) as
>> our abilities and time allow, then we can attract more developers and
>> users. If I could code I would but I can't. So I do what I can do which is
>> promote the software to my colleagues, make a small annual contribution,
>> and answer the occasional question on the list when my life isn't crazy
>> busy.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Richard Bown <
>> richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for cross post but want to hit developers too here.
>>>
>>> >> or perhaps even Kickstarter.
>>> >
>>> > Money could help if there were enough of it.
>>>
>>> To do kickstarter there would have to be a definite goal, a core
>>> collective, an output and some enticing pledge material.  I'll have a think
>>> about this and see if I can come up with something but this depends a lot
>>> on personal circumstance of those involved.   Also depends on public
>>> opinion and what other similar projects may be out there already. (I can
>>> see a few failures on there so it needs to be compelling and well marketed)
>>>
>>> Personally I can't commit to developing to a timescale for a Kickstarter
>>> project but others may.  I would be happy to get involved with marketing a
>>> campaign and fundraising though if there is enthusiasm.
>>>
>>> I will try to get a little more involved in development again but
>>> probably only on the Windows branch i've already been working on.  There's
>>> no reason why though new features there can't go back to main branch.
>>> I've been waiting to merge latest changes on to my branch - since the
>>> release is out now I'll start that work.
>>>
>>> Like I say personally I can't really commit to supporting the Linux
>>> version but for windows I'm happy to continue infrequent releases.
>>>
>>> R
>>>
>>> --
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> ___
>>> Rosegarden-user mailing list
>>> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to
>>> unsubscribe
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Brett McCoy]

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell  wrote:

> Perhaps as a starting point we could "shake the tree" for developers on
> Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of origin.
> The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are worked
> out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do that
> but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working on
> the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get more
> involved.

I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
and have MIDI & Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
provide.

-- 
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com

"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
    -- Jelaleddin Rumi

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

Can a link be added to the alpha for Windows on the main Rosegarden website
(If I didn't have the announcement archived, I wouldn't be able to easily
find it)? It can have the disclaimer as being an Alpha but I have tried
alpha software in the past that was fairly useful. Just that in itself
shows activity which might gather more support. If Richard wants more
Windows developers working on it, there could be a separate page devoted to
the Windows port where updates could be posted. There could be a request on
the web site for Mac developers as well. There is an Apple developer
mailing list that I could post to asking for interest in creating a port.

Perhaps as a starting point we could "shake the tree" for developers on
Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of origin.
The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are
worked out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do
that but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are
working on the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact
to get more involved.

Dave

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Richard Bown <
richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com> wrote:

> The Windows alpha is something I knocked together with a view to
> completing at least the MIDI portion at some point this year.
>
> Mac I can't do anything about at the moment as I don't have one.  However
> perhaps that's a good angle to pursue with Kickstarter if there are more
> developers interested in this.  I can see perhaps the kernel of an idea
> forming there.
>
> R
>
> On 8 May 2012, at 15:23, Thomas Sattler  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I played around a bit with the Windows alpha and it seemed to work pretty
> well; I believe that project is ongoing but there are others who are more
> familiar with its progress than I.
>
> --Tom
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:21 AM, David Tisdell wrote:
>
>> What it all seems to come down to is attracting more developers. It seems
>> to me that there needs to be a multipronged approach.
>> To attract more developers, it could help to expand the user base. If we
>> had people evangelizing Rosegarden to the end user, we could expand the
>> user base. I have presented on Rosegarden at several conferences in New
>> England (mostly in VT) but I am one guy living in a small rural state. If
>> there were others like me in different places doing this somewhat
>> regularly, the user base would enlarge.
>>
>> The quality of the program speaks for itself. It is the best music
>> program I have ever used on any platform. I know some folks might think
>> this is heresy but it would be great if we could attract enough OS X and
>> Windows developers to have ports to both platforms (I know about the
>> Windows port in the works, yay). The most successful and widely used
>> opensource programs run on Linux, OS X, and Windows.
>>
>> Not having ports on those platforms is an obstacle to wider adoption. I
>> am a public school music teacher and when I present at a conference, the
>> moment I say Linux, most of the educators in my audience are tuned out
>> unless they are using Linux in their school. I'll get comments like "It's
>> cool but I need it in Windows (or Mac)"
>>
>> I don't expect Michael to try and take on that type of project. He
>> doesn't have the time. As a community of users, it our responsibility to
>> make sure Rosegarden survives, grows and moves forward. If we all do what
>> we can, (make a donation, evangelize the software, or code) as
>> our abilities and time allow, then we can attract more developers and
>> users. If I could code I would but I can't. So I do what I can do which is
>> promote the software to my colleagues, make a small annual contribution,
>> and answer the occasional question on the list when my life isn't crazy
>> busy.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Richard Bown <
>> richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for cross post but want to hit developers too here.
>>>
>>> >> or perhaps even Kickstarter.
>>> >
>>> > Money could help if there were enough of it.
>>>
>>> To do kickstarter there would have to be a definite goal, a core
>>> collective, an output and some enticing pledge material.  I'll have a think
>>> about this and see if I can come up with something but this depends a lot
>>> on personal circumstance of those involved.   Also depends on public
>>> opinion and what other similar projects may be out there already. (I can
>>> see a few failures on there so it needs to be compelling and well marketed)
>>>
>>> Personally I can't commit to developing to a timescale for a Kickstarter
>>> project but others may.  I would be happy to get involved with marketing a
>>> campaign and fundraising though if there is enthusiasm.
>>>
>>> I will try to get a little more involved in development again but
>>> probably only on the Windows branch i've already been working on.  There's
>>> no reason why though new features there can'

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

The Windows alpha is something I knocked together with a view to completing at 
least the MIDI portion at some point this year.

Mac I can't do anything about at the moment as I don't have one.  However 
perhaps that's a good angle to pursue with Kickstarter if there are more 
developers interested in this.  I can see perhaps the kernel of an idea forming 
there.

R

On 8 May 2012, at 15:23, Thomas Sattler  wrote:

> David, 
> 
> I played around a bit with the Windows alpha and it seemed to work pretty 
> well; I believe that project is ongoing but there are others who are more 
> familiar with its progress than I.
> 
> --Tom
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:21 AM, David Tisdell  wrote:
> What it all seems to come down to is attracting more developers. It seems to 
> me that there needs to be a multipronged approach.
> To attract more developers, it could help to expand the user base. If we had 
> people evangelizing Rosegarden to the end user, we could expand the user 
> base. I have presented on Rosegarden at several conferences in New England 
> (mostly in VT) but I am one guy living in a small rural state. If there were 
> others like me in different places doing this somewhat regularly, the user 
> base would enlarge. 
> 
> The quality of the program speaks for itself. It is the best music program I 
> have ever used on any platform. I know some folks might think this is heresy 
> but it would be great if we could attract enough OS X and Windows developers 
> to have ports to both platforms (I know about the Windows port in the works, 
> yay). The most successful and widely used opensource programs run on Linux, 
> OS X, and Windows.
> 
> Not having ports on those platforms is an obstacle to wider adoption. I am a 
> public school music teacher and when I present at a conference, the moment I 
> say Linux, most of the educators in my audience are tuned out unless they are 
> using Linux in their school. I'll get comments like "It's cool but I need it 
> in Windows (or Mac)"
> 
> I don't expect Michael to try and take on that type of project. He doesn't 
> have the time. As a community of users, it our responsibility to make sure 
> Rosegarden survives, grows and moves forward. If we all do what we can, (make 
> a donation, evangelize the software, or code) as our abilities and time 
> allow, then we can attract more developers and users. If I could code I would 
> but I can't. So I do what I can do which is promote the software to my 
> colleagues, make a small annual contribution, and answer the occasional 
> question on the list when my life isn't crazy busy.
> 
> Dave 
> 
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Richard Bown 
>  wrote:
> Sorry for cross post but want to hit developers too here.
> 
> >> or perhaps even Kickstarter.
> >
> > Money could help if there were enough of it.
> 
> To do kickstarter there would have to be a definite goal, a core collective, 
> an output and some enticing pledge material.  I'll have a think about this 
> and see if I can come up with something but this depends a lot on personal 
> circumstance of those involved.   Also depends on public opinion and what 
> other similar projects may be out there already. (I can see a few failures on 
> there so it needs to be compelling and well marketed)
> 
> Personally I can't commit to developing to a timescale for a Kickstarter 
> project but others may.  I would be happy to get involved with marketing a 
> campaign and fundraising though if there is enthusiasm.
> 
> I will try to get a little more involved in development again but probably 
> only on the Windows branch i've already been working on.  There's no reason 
> why though new features there can't go back to main branch.   I've been 
> waiting to merge latest changes on to my branch - since the release is out 
> now I'll start that work.
> 
> Like I say personally I can't really commit to supporting the Linux version 
> but for windows I'm happy to continue infrequent releases.
> 
> R
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
> 
> 
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.co

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Thomas Sattler]

David,

I played around a bit with the Windows alpha and it seemed to work pretty
well; I believe that project is ongoing but there are others who are more
familiar with its progress than I.

--Tom



On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:21 AM, David Tisdell wrote:

> What it all seems to come down to is attracting more developers. It seems
> to me that there needs to be a multipronged approach.
> To attract more developers, it could help to expand the user base. If we
> had people evangelizing Rosegarden to the end user, we could expand the
> user base. I have presented on Rosegarden at several conferences in New
> England (mostly in VT) but I am one guy living in a small rural state. If
> there were others like me in different places doing this somewhat
> regularly, the user base would enlarge.
>
> The quality of the program speaks for itself. It is the best music program
> I have ever used on any platform. I know some folks might think this is
> heresy but it would be great if we could attract enough OS X and Windows
> developers to have ports to both platforms (I know about the Windows port
> in the works, yay). The most successful and widely used opensource programs
> run on Linux, OS X, and Windows.
>
> Not having ports on those platforms is an obstacle to wider adoption. I am
> a public school music teacher and when I present at a conference, the
> moment I say Linux, most of the educators in my audience are tuned out
> unless they are using Linux in their school. I'll get comments like "It's
> cool but I need it in Windows (or Mac)"
>
> I don't expect Michael to try and take on that type of project. He doesn't
> have the time. As a community of users, it our responsibility to make sure
> Rosegarden survives, grows and moves forward. If we all do what we can,
> (make a donation, evangelize the software, or code) as our abilities and
> time allow, then we can attract more developers and users. If I could code
> I would but I can't. So I do what I can do which is promote the software to
> my colleagues, make a small annual contribution, and answer the occasional
> question on the list when my life isn't crazy busy.
>
> Dave
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Richard Bown <
> richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for cross post but want to hit developers too here.
>>
>> >> or perhaps even Kickstarter.
>> >
>> > Money could help if there were enough of it.
>>
>> To do kickstarter there would have to be a definite goal, a core
>> collective, an output and some enticing pledge material.  I'll have a think
>> about this and see if I can come up with something but this depends a lot
>> on personal circumstance of those involved.   Also depends on public
>> opinion and what other similar projects may be out there already. (I can
>> see a few failures on there so it needs to be compelling and well marketed)
>>
>> Personally I can't commit to developing to a timescale for a Kickstarter
>> project but others may.  I would be happy to get involved with marketing a
>> campaign and fundraising though if there is enthusiasm.
>>
>> I will try to get a little more involved in development again but
>> probably only on the Windows branch i've already been working on.  There's
>> no reason why though new features there can't go back to main branch.
>> I've been waiting to merge latest changes on to my branch - since the
>> release is out now I'll start that work.
>>
>> Like I say personally I can't really commit to supporting the Linux
>> version but for windows I'm happy to continue infrequent releases.
>>
>> R
>>
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> ___
>> Rosegarden-user mailing list
>> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>
>
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

What it all seems to come down to is attracting more developers. It seems
to me that there needs to be a multipronged approach.
To attract more developers, it could help to expand the user base. If we
had people evangelizing Rosegarden to the end user, we could expand the
user base. I have presented on Rosegarden at several conferences in New
England (mostly in VT) but I am one guy living in a small rural state. If
there were others like me in different places doing this somewhat
regularly, the user base would enlarge.

The quality of the program speaks for itself. It is the best music program
I have ever used on any platform. I know some folks might think this is
heresy but it would be great if we could attract enough OS X and Windows
developers to have ports to both platforms (I know about the Windows port
in the works, yay). The most successful and widely used opensource programs
run on Linux, OS X, and Windows.

Not having ports on those platforms is an obstacle to wider adoption. I am
a public school music teacher and when I present at a conference, the
moment I say Linux, most of the educators in my audience are tuned out
unless they are using Linux in their school. I'll get comments like "It's
cool but I need it in Windows (or Mac)"

I don't expect Michael to try and take on that type of project. He doesn't
have the time. As a community of users, it our responsibility to make sure
Rosegarden survives, grows and moves forward. If we all do what we can,
(make a donation, evangelize the software, or code) as our abilities and
time allow, then we can attract more developers and users. If I could code
I would but I can't. So I do what I can do which is promote the software to
my colleagues, make a small annual contribution, and answer the occasional
question on the list when my life isn't crazy busy.

Dave

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Richard Bown <
richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com> wrote:

> Sorry for cross post but want to hit developers too here.
>
> >> or perhaps even Kickstarter.
> >
> > Money could help if there were enough of it.
>
> To do kickstarter there would have to be a definite goal, a core
> collective, an output and some enticing pledge material.  I'll have a think
> about this and see if I can come up with something but this depends a lot
> on personal circumstance of those involved.   Also depends on public
> opinion and what other similar projects may be out there already. (I can
> see a few failures on there so it needs to be compelling and well marketed)
>
> Personally I can't commit to developing to a timescale for a Kickstarter
> project but others may.  I would be happy to get involved with marketing a
> campaign and fundraising though if there is enthusiasm.
>
> I will try to get a little more involved in development again but probably
> only on the Windows branch i've already been working on.  There's no reason
> why though new features there can't go back to main branch.   I've been
> waiting to merge latest changes on to my branch - since the release is out
> now I'll start that work.
>
> Like I say personally I can't really commit to supporting the Linux
> version but for windows I'm happy to continue infrequent releases.
>
> R
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

Sorry for cross post but want to hit developers too here.

>> or perhaps even Kickstarter.
> 
> Money could help if there were enough of it. 

To do kickstarter there would have to be a definite goal, a core collective, an 
output and some enticing pledge material.  I'll have a think about this and see 
if I can come up with something but this depends a lot on personal circumstance 
of those involved.   Also depends on public opinion and what other similar 
projects may be out there already. (I can see a few failures on there so it 
needs to be compelling and well marketed)

Personally I can't commit to developing to a timescale for a Kickstarter 
project but others may.  I would be happy to get involved with marketing a 
campaign and fundraising though if there is enthusiasm.

I will try to get a little more involved in development again but probably only 
on the Windows branch i've already been working on.  There's no reason why 
though new features there can't go back to main branch.   I've been waiting to 
merge latest changes on to my branch - since the release is out now I'll start 
that work.

Like I say personally I can't really commit to supporting the Linux version but 
for windows I'm happy to continue infrequent releases.

R
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[david]

On 05/07/2012 12:08 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> On 07/05/12 23:05, Brett McCoy wrote:
>> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM, david   wrote:
>>
>> Notation can be done with Lilypond,
>
> No please leave it in and value the notation! Notation as a
> composition/creation tool as well, yes the typesetting can be done in
> Lilypond but 'creating' music in the sequencer.. :)
>
> but you can't
>> feasibly edit complex pieces of music without the matrix editor.
>
> +1 (especially for 'performances')

Actually, people wrote, edited and performed complex pieces of music for 
centuries without a matrix editor.

>> Rosegarden is especially well-suited for composing orchestral music
>> and this would be quite impossible without the matrix editor.

See above response.

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[david]

Actually, this David was only semi-joking about the matrix editor. I 
look at pieces of programs as resource costs. Resources spent on the 
matrix editor are not available for use on what I consider more 
important parts of the program. For what it's worth, I've have liked 
matrix editors for music. It's like trying to read a player piano score: 
useless to anything except machines. (Like writing a score in Lilypond 
using a text editor.)

But RG is very flexible and I enjoy that.

On 05/07/2012 02:36 PM, David Tisdell wrote:
> When I am writing, I almost always begin with the notation editor.
> Vitally important tool. One of the things I like about RG is that it
> adapts well whatever your approach to composition.
>
> Dave
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:07 PM, PMA wrote:
>
> Abrolag wrote:
>  > On Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08:43 -0400
>  > PMA >  wrote:
>  >
>  >> david wrote:
>  >>> ...  I think RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)
>  >>
>  >> For the record just in case, that would end my interest in RG.
>  >
>  > methinks david was having his little joke ;-)
>  >
> i saw the  ;-)  but didn't get it.  sorry, naive me.

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, Richard Bown wrote:

> > I have failed.
> 
> What absolute self indulgent rubbish.

I'm glad my heartfelt outpouring of emotion is self-indulgent rubbish.

I don't really care what you think either, as far as that goes.  I've had it 
up to here with criticism.  It strikes me as just deliciously ironic that here 
I am making that statement to you.  Isn't the irony just palpable?  It's 
glorious.

Maybe we should talk about you taking your project back.  Seriously, I'm 
obviously sick of this albatross, and there's nobody better to hand the keys 
to than one of the original founders.  If you'll assume responsibility for 
keeping this thing alive from now on, I'll be content to go out with that 
release I just published.

> It's in fine shape.   We just need a bit of positivity around here.  Yes and
> time.

We need competent developers around here.  People like you.

> And maybe a Summer of Code

Heikki Junes worked himself ragged trying to dole out projects that way, and 
there were no takers.  Not even the faintest blip of interest.

> or perhaps even Kickstarter.

Money could help if there were enough of it.  There haven't ever been enough 
in the way of donations or corporate sponsorship to pay for any real developer 
time, but if we had a budget into the tens of thousands of US dollars, that 
might actually pay for something worthwhile.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[ram]

Rosegarden does pretty much all I need it to do.  Yes, it has a few
niggling (and apparently very hard to find) bugs, but no showstoppers that
are easily worked around.

As far as a future direction and additional features, you guys should
check out the Impro-Visor project and maybe give it a spin.

https://www.cs.hmc.edu/~keller/jazz/improvisor/

I often use it to start the compositional process and do the final
arranging and editing in Rosegarden.  It would be convenient if Rosegarden
incorporated some of the editing features of Impro-Visor.

Maybe the two projects should merge, although Impro-Visor is in Java and
Rosegarden is in C and Qt.




--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Richard Bown]

> I have failed.

What absolute self indulgent rubbish. It's in fine shape.   We just need a bit 
of positivity around here.  Yes and time.  And maybe a Summer of Code or 
perhaps even Kickstarter.  Rather than making sweeping statements perhaps a 
plan is in order.

R
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, Holger Marzen wrote:

> If he has to work 70 hours a week behind the steering wheel of his truck
> then he needs support. But who can help him?

I want to point out that while the hours I have to spend working do have a 
negative influence on my ability to get things done around here, the far 
larger problem is there just isn't anyone working here that I can assign jobs 
to with some expectation of them getting done.

We have developers, but the way it works now is somebody shows up and says 
what they're going to do, and they do it throughly and well.  They're doing 
excellent, useful work, but they don't work on other, random stuff that comes 
along the way.  If I get a bug report about the audio previews being broken, I 
have one developer I can assign that bug to, and that developer is me.

I don't know how to fix the audio previews, or I would.  I have no earthly 
idea how that code even works.  I don't have the foggiest idea how most of 
this code works, which is why I always worked on mostly superficial, light 
duty type stuff back when I was part of a large and active team.

I am a mere custodian, a floor sweeper who has inherited the job of keeping an 
entire great and complicated factory running.  I'm a passenger trying to fly 
an airplane, or sail a ship, or run a steam locomotive.  I'm a finish 
carpenter trying to wire and plumb and frame and roof a house.  I'm a little 
boy trying to be the man of the house because Daddy went away.  I have some 
limited aptitude for such things, and I'm not completely ineffective, but the 
only reason I'm even qualified to work here is because I was in here sweeping 
the floor when everybody else disappeared.

If I could just move on myself, it would be so much easier, but I don't want 
to abandon the ship until the last of it finally sinks below the water.

At this rate, who knows how long that will be.  The engine is dead, but we've 
got a sail that catches a breeze from time to time, and the bilge pumps are 
still working, though at reduced capacity.  Progress is slow, but there is 
still progress.  Quite a lot of work went into the 12.04 release I'm about to 
publish.

Yes, I'm incredibly gloomy and depressed, and I make no apology for that.  Me 
being gloomy isn't what's killing Rosegarden.  I'm gloomy because Rosegarden 
is barely alive, and it's dying in my hands.  I've been administering CPR to 
this project for years, and it's less and less effective as time goes by.

I have failed.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Lorenzo Sutton]

On 08/05/12 02:36, David Tisdell wrote:
...
> One of the things I like about RG is that it
> adapts well whatever your approach to composition.

+1 very well said.
Lorenzo.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Holger Marzen]

On Mon, 7 May 2012, Abrolag wrote:

> I really, really, REALLY don't want to have to try to find something (or
> even a bunch of somethings) that does all of that.
> 
> I get frustrated by RGs bugs, but never by it's functionality.

I second that. And, Rosegarden UI *is* intuitive. It took me some days
to find out many cool things but I understood how to record MIDI and
Audio and edit them within an hour.

I tried OpenOctave yesterday. It took me hours and a manual to record
something but I am sure I've not yet understood what these Inputs and
Busses are needed for, how this Linuxsampler can be administrated, how
Tracks' instruments can be changed afterwards and more. It may be mighty
but it's a strange logic inside - at least for me.

> I do wish Michael would not be so negative. We know it's had to take a back
> seat to putting food on the table. We understand that it is a massive piece of
> complex software - even the time to compile tells you that! However, saying
> that this or that will *never* be fixed is shortchanging everyone, including
> putting off potential future devs who might otherwise take a look at the
> problems.

If he has to work 70 hours a week behind the steering wheel of his truck
then he needs support. But who can help him?

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

When I am writing, I almost always begin with the notation editor. Vitally
important tool. One of the things I like about RG is that it adapts well
whatever your approach to composition.

Dave

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:07 PM, PMA  wrote:

> Abrolag wrote:
> > On Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08:43 -0400
> > PMA  wrote:
> >
> >> david wrote:
> >>> ...  I think RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)
> >>
> >> For the record just in case, that would end my interest in RG.
> >
> > methinks david was having his little joke ;-)
> >
> i saw the  ;-)  but didn't get it.  sorry, naive me.
>
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[PMA]

Abrolag wrote:
> On Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08:43 -0400
> PMA  wrote:
>
>> david wrote:
>>> ...  I think RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)
>>
>> For the record just in case, that would end my interest in RG.
>
> methinks david was having his little joke ;-)
>
i saw the  ;-)  but didn't get it.  sorry, naive me.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Brett McCoy]

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Thomas Sattler  wrote:
>>  Notation can be done with Lilypond,
>
> Uh ... no, it can't.  Oh, you might be able to enter notes and get sheet
> music out of it, but I have never heard of anyone who begins with a finished
> composition.

*raises hand* I've done many pieces starting out with sheet music in
Lilypond and then generated MIDI and sequenced with Rosegarden. I know
lots of other folks who do so as well.

>  When you want to place notes on a staff, you typically want to
> hear what it sounds like after you do that.  And for that, Rosegarden is
> excellent.  I can lay out my piece on the staffs, and then export to
> LilyPond and get a beautifully finished piece.  I have found Rosegarden to
> be quirky WRT the way it builds the file that gets sent to LilyPond, but I
> never want to actually compose in LilyPond.

Actually, there are some very good Lilypond editors, like Frescobaldi,
that do MIDI playback, although they are not well-suited for good
performance (nor is it intended to be performance data). Rosegarden's
notation is good for some basic stuff, but there's a lot of stuff it
can't do directly (like drum notation) that you really do need to use
Lilypond directly for. I've never been very happy with Rosegarden's
Lilypond output, it's very difficult to edit after the fact (I don't
think it uses relative octaves, for one thing).

But this isn't to say that Rosegarden shouldn't have notation (I think
it should stay)... I find it useful for some things, to try out
snippets and see how chords fit together.

-- 
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com

"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
    -- Jelaleddin Rumi

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Abrolag]

On Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08:43 -0400
PMA  wrote:

> david wrote:
> > ...  I think RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)
> 
> For the record just in case, that would end my interest in RG.

methinks david was having his little joke ;-)

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Thomas Sattler]

>  Notation can be done with Lilypond,

Uh ... no, it can't.  Oh, you might be able to enter notes and get sheet
music out of it, but I have never heard of anyone who begins with a
finished composition.  When you want to place notes on a staff, you
typically want to hear what it sounds like after you do that.  And for
that, Rosegarden is excellent.  I can lay out my piece on the staffs, and
then export to LilyPond and get a beautifully finished piece.  I have found
Rosegarden to be quirky WRT the way it builds the file that gets sent to
LilyPond, but I never want to actually compose in LilyPond.

Just my 2c.

--Tom



On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Brett McCoy  wrote:

> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM, david  wrote:
>
> > I sometimes use the event editor. I never use the matrix editor. I think
> > RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)
>
> As far as MIDI composing goes, the matrix editor is the single most
> important feature. Notation can be done with Lilypond, but you can't
> feasibly edit complex pieces of music without the matrix editor.
> Rosegarden is especially well-suited for composing orchestral music
> and this would be quite impossible without the matrix editor.
>
> I think the feature set for Rosegarden is quite comprehensive, it just
> needs some tweaks and enhancements to make it even better (like the
> Continuous Controller rulers, they are usable but could be better).
>
> --
> Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
> 
> "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
> it would overturn the world."
> -- Jelaleddin Rumi
>
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[PMA]

david wrote:
> ...  I think RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)

For the record just in case, that would end my interest in RG.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Lorenzo Sutton]

On 07/05/12 23:05, Brett McCoy wrote:
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM, david  wrote:
>
> Notation can be done with Lilypond,

No please leave it in and value the notation! Notation as a 
composition/creation tool as well, yes the typesetting can be done in 
Lilypond but 'creating' music in the sequencer.. :)

but you can't
> feasibly edit complex pieces of music without the matrix editor.

+1 (especially for 'performances')

> Rosegarden is especially well-suited for composing orchestral music
> and this would be quite impossible without the matrix editor.
>
> I think the feature set for Rosegarden is quite comprehensive, it just
> needs some tweaks and enhancements to make it even better (like the
> Continuous Controller rulers, they are usable but could be better).

+1

Lorenzo.




--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Brett McCoy]

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM, david  wrote:

> I sometimes use the event editor. I never use the matrix editor. I think
> RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)

As far as MIDI composing goes, the matrix editor is the single most
important feature. Notation can be done with Lilypond, but you can't
feasibly edit complex pieces of music without the matrix editor.
Rosegarden is especially well-suited for composing orchestral music
and this would be quite impossible without the matrix editor.

I think the feature set for Rosegarden is quite comprehensive, it just
needs some tweaks and enhancements to make it even better (like the
Continuous Controller rulers, they are usable but could be better).

-- 
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com

"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
    -- Jelaleddin Rumi

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Abrolag]

On Mon, 07 May 2012 10:13:48 -1000
david  wrote:

> On 05/06/2012 10:33 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> > On 07/05/12 09:20, Holger Marzen wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I made my first song with rosegarden. I chose Rosegarden because:
> >>
> >> - MIDI-Sequencer
> >> - Can use Synthesizer-plugins, eliminating latency and jitter compared
>   >> to internal MIDI
> >> - Can record and arrange audio
> >> - Can use LADSPA-plugins for audio (reverb, echo ...)
> >>
> >> What I don't need:
> >>
> >> - Create scoresheets. Matrix editor and event editor is all I need
> 
> I sometimes use the event editor. I never use the matrix editor. I think 
> RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)

Heresy!

Then again, I heavily use the matrix editor, often use the audio section,
sometimes use the event editor, and occasionally use the notation editor.

I really, really, REALLY don't want to have to try to find something (or
even a bunch of somethings) that does all of that.

I get frustrated by RGs bugs, but never by it's functionality.

I do wish Michael would not be so negative. We know it's had to take a back
seat to putting food on the table. We understand that it is a massive piece of
complex software - even the time to compile tells you that! However, saying
that this or that will *never* be fixed is shortchanging everyone, including
putting off potential future devs who might otherwise take a look at the
problems.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[david]

On 05/06/2012 10:33 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> On 07/05/12 09:20, Holger Marzen wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I made my first song with rosegarden. I chose Rosegarden because:
>>
>> - MIDI-Sequencer
>> - Can use Synthesizer-plugins, eliminating latency and jitter compared
  >> to internal MIDI
>> - Can record and arrange audio
>> - Can use LADSPA-plugins for audio (reverb, echo ...)
>>
>> What I don't need:
>>
>> - Create scoresheets. Matrix editor and event editor is all I need

I sometimes use the event editor. I never use the matrix editor. I think 
RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)

> Personally I think rosegarden is one of the sequencers with best music
> notation support (notice I didn't write "sequencers for linux...") given
> the kind of notation support one would expect on a sequencer.
> I also never use the audio side and would really like roseegarden to
> focus on MIDI (as I would like DAW software to focus on audio) - do one
> thing and do it well - clearly when that "one thing" is "midi
> sequencing" things get rather complicated.


-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Lorenzo Sutton]

On 07/05/12 09:20, Holger Marzen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I made my first song with rosegarden. I chose Rosegarden because:
>
> - MIDI-Sequencer
> - Can use Synthesizer-plugins, eliminating latency and jitter compared
>to internal MIDI
> - Can record and arrange audio
> - Can use LADSPA-plugins for audio (reverb, echo ...)
>
> What I don't need:
>
> - Create scoresheets. Matrix editor and event editor is all I need

Personally I think rosegarden is one of the sequencers with best music 
notation support (notice I didn't write "sequencers for linux...") given 
the kind of notation support one would expect on a sequencer.
I also never use the audio side and would really like roseegarden to 
focus on MIDI (as I would like DAW software to focus on audio) - do one 
thing and do it well - clearly when that "one thing" is "midi 
sequencing" things get rather complicated.


>
> What is missing for me?

I think if all the current bugs (especially in the matrix editor) were 
all fixed I'd be a happy user for quite a while. But as I said I don't 
use it for audio.

Of course that's my personal opinion. And I fully agree in the big 
thankfulness to all the devs who worked hardly on this really cool piece 
of music software!
Lorenzo


>
> - Stability. Rosegarden crashes every ten or so record/undo-attempts
> - A button named "set everything temporally to half speed"
> - Plugin settings are remembered in the settings-GUI
>
> The most important question ist: Does Rosegarden have a future? How many
> developers work actively on Rosegarden? One? Even the most motivated
> spare-time-developer cannot handle this. Rosegarden is a big piece of
> software.
>
> Unfortunately I am not a coder. I can write bug reports, I can test, I
> could do translations (German), but that doesn't fix bugs.
>
> Rosegarden is a lovely piece of software. I like it very much. A big
> thank you to every developer!
>
> But will it survive the next years?
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user


--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

[Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

[Holger Marzen]

Hi all,

I made my first song with rosegarden. I chose Rosegarden because:

- MIDI-Sequencer
- Can use Synthesizer-plugins, eliminating latency and jitter compared
  to internal MIDI
- Can record and arrange audio
- Can use LADSPA-plugins for audio (reverb, echo ...)

What I don't need:

- Create scoresheets. Matrix editor and event editor is all I need

What is missing for me?

- Stability. Rosegarden crashes every ten or so record/undo-attempts
- A button named "set everything temporally to half speed"
- Plugin settings are remembered in the settings-GUI

The most important question ist: Does Rosegarden have a future? How many
developers work actively on Rosegarden? One? Even the most motivated
spare-time-developer cannot handle this. Rosegarden is a big piece of
software.

Unfortunately I am not a coder. I can write bug reports, I can test, I
could do translations (German), but that doesn't fix bugs.

Rosegarden is a lovely piece of software. I like it very much. A big
thank you to every developer!

But will it survive the next years?

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user