To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I suppose I should have phrased that There has literally never been a
single public champion of Softimage at a decision-making level.
Was there ever a SIGGRAPH, usergroup meeting
Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Griswold
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 1:27 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A more graceful retirement - my
, 2014 1:27 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I suppose I should have phrased that There has literally never been
a single public champion of Softimage at a decision-making level.
Was there ever a SIGGRAPH
@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I suppose I should have phrased that There has literally never been a single
public champion of Softimage at a decision-making level.
Was there ever a SIGGRAPH, usergroup meeting, or anything of the sort where
anyone
...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Paul Griswold
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 1:27 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I suppose I should have phrased that There has
954-7134
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Paul Griswold
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 1:27 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I suppose I
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I suppose I should have phrased that There has literally never been a
single public champion of Softimage at a decision-making level.
Was there ever a SIGGRAPH, usergroup meeting, or anything
Hi Maurice,
Since you brought this up, I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth
and below is a quote from a friend of my who has been in the 3D industry
for over 25 years.
The reason I am upset about the killing of XSI is XSI was created from
the ground up and not pasted together like Maya
I'll keep it super short. the troubling thing here is that Softimage does
many things that are just plain superior to Maya (Rigging, Weighting, Mixer,
Shape Manager, Ice, athough that one is a big if as from what I
understand, Bifrost is supposed to be the next big thing (but how long to
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Maurice,
Since you brought this up, I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth and
below is a quote from a friend of my who has been in the 3D industry for over
25 years.
The reason I am upset about the killing of XSI is XSI
-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Maurice Patel
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 3:34 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
He beats me I have only been in it since 1995 :) But I was at Softimage when
Sumatra and DS were both COM
: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
He beats me I have only been in it since 1995 :) But I was at Softimage
when Sumatra and DS were both COM based applications on a shared code base
and it was a massive struggle to get those products shippable, Using this
reasoning you could also argue
And I apologize for not trimming my previous posts
maurice
attachment: winmail.dat
-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Mirko Jankovic
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 3:56 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
There is a bit of perspective of view issue here
Comparing Maya and Softimage jobs/projects I worked on for the last 10-15 yrs,
I would come to the conclusion that I worked on many almost vanilla install
Softimage projects while the Maya projects involved a significantly higher
amount
of using scripted extensions and plug-in functionality.
, March 13, 2014 4:20 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Comparing Maya and Softimage jobs/projects I worked on for the last 10-15 yrs,
I would come to the conclusion that I worked on many almost vanilla install
Softimage projects
Hello again Maurice.
I am sorry to say that killing Softimage is the worst decision ever made by
Autodesk, as Autodesk does not have a true alternative for a better
software than Softimage. Maybe Maya is stronger than Softimage in other
aspects, but the ones that we care as artists/users Maya is
On 03/13/14 4:14, Maurice Patel wrote:
Hi Mirko,
If only it were that simple. But if I publicly said that Maya users were not
artists my inbox would swell a few hundred thousand times:). But the reality is
that most of the Maya users out there are artists not developers.
I don't think the
Hi Emilio .. to be (able to be more) fair, you have to put (practice
putting) your own emotions aside ;)
On 03/13/14 4:38, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
Hello again Maurice.
I am sorry to say that killing Softimage is the worst decision ever
made by Autodesk, as Autodesk does not have a true
Hello Jason. Even though my emotions play an important role in my job,
when it comes to work I am a lean, clean polished machine, and Maya is not
as lean, as clean, and polished as Softimage, nor I have found another DCC
tool.
Honestly IMHO if you are taking something out of the market is
Only adding some thoughts at the complaining.
What sadden me is also the loss of something valuable as a piece of art in
human culture.
Like loosing pieces of literature, or paintings.
Software is immaterial, is the product of creative thinking and you
perceive it mostly using it with your mind;
I just want to add, i'm very dissapointed. Not only because Autodesk isn't
hearing the user base; they didn't do anything in the past either to solve
the Softimage problem.(marketing/development. That's all).
We are here. People are talking a lot about the subject. There's a lot of
user base
-- Originalnachricht --
Von: Maurice Patel maurice.pa...@autodesk.com
An: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Gesendet: 13.03.2014 09:34:16
Betreff: RE: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Tim,
I don't think anyone here at Autodesk would
...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Tim Leydecker
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 4:20 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Comparing Maya and Softimage jobs/projects I worked on for the last 10-15 yrs, I would
come to the conclusion that I worked
An: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Gesendet: 13.03.2014 09:34:16
Betreff: RE: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Tim,
I don't think anyone here at Autodesk would disagree with you there.
Softimage and 3ds Max were designed very much to be out of the box
Since the day Autodesk bought Softimage, it's been one cruel joke. There
has literally never been a single champion of Softimage at a
decision-making level, right? It's been the red-headed step-child since
the moment of the acquisition.
I'm not sure this statement is entirely true. The
Was wondering where your voice was Brad!
On 13 March 2014 17:21, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.com wrote:
Since the day Autodesk bought Softimage, it's been one cruel joke. There
has literally never been a single champion of Softimage at a
decision-making level, right? It's been the
I suppose I should have phrased that There has literally never been a
single public champion of Softimage at a decision-making level.
Was there ever a SIGGRAPH, usergroup meeting, or anything of the sort where
anyone with any sort of authority at Autodesk called for more exposure,
more marketing,
Not really. Which is why my top 5 list for Alastair would have been
something like:
-Chinny
-Halfdan
-Ronald
-Schoennagel
-Jen
-etc...
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Paul Griswold
pgrisw...@fusiondigitalproductions.com wrote:
I suppose I should have phrased that There has literally never
Great suggestion Greg!
DAN
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 5:33 AM, Sylvain Lebeau s...@shedmtl.com wrote:
;-) love it
*Sylvain Lebeau // SHED*
V-P/Visual effects supervisor
1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8
T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM
Greg, can I post your letter on Facebook?—
Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com
wrote:
Hello Autodesk,
My name is Greg Punchatz , Senior Creative Director at Janimation. I have a
proposal, or call it a counter offer on the proper way
]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:03 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Greg, can I post your letter on Facebook?
—
Sent from Mailboxhttps://www.dropbox.com/mailbox for iPhone
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Greg Punchatz
g
: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Greg,
Do you have any more info on what you mean by long standing low level
requests and can you list the top 10 third parties you would like me to
reach out to follow up with? Or is there anyone on the list who is a
third party developer that can
Good idea
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk http://www.glassworks.co.uk/
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered
Yeah, +1 from my side as well.
-M
--
Martin Chatterjee
[ Freelance Technical Director ]
[ http://www.chatterjee.de ]
[ https://vimeo.com/chatterjee ]
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Alastair Hearsum hear...@glassworks.co.uk
wrote:
Good idea
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
I doubt autodesk improves sdk. It will mean people can stay longer with
softimage. Which is less sells on maya and max.
And in the end it's all about money... :(
For the rest nice letter, i really like the big letters are coming.
2014-03-11 12:14 GMT+01:00 Martin Chatterjee
, March 11, 2014 3:49 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hello Autodesk,
My name is Greg Punchatz , Senior Creative Director at Janimation. I have a
proposal, or call it a counter offer on the proper way to retire Softimage.
First off
BRILLIANT post.
Perfectly articulated Peter, well done!
DAN
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 1:46 PM, pete...@skynet.be wrote:
Hi Greg,
this is pretty much along the lines of what I've been thinking.
Hi all,
I’d like to chime in if I may.
I run a very small company in Brussels called Digital Golem that’s been around
for almost 8 years, and our pipeline is essentially Softimage-Arnold-Nuke,
with a bit of ZBrush thrown in for good measure.
One of the biggest reasons we are able to be
I totally agree 100% with everything that's been said here.
On 11 March 2014 12:04, Jean-Louis Billard jean-lo...@photon3.com wrote:
Hi all,
I'd like to chime in if I may.
I run a very small company in Brussels called Digital Golem that's been
around for almost 8 years, and our pipeline
As a colleague of mine pointed out this morning, Autodesk should have
told it's Softimage users what it needs to keep Softimage going.
Admittedly that could be a bitter pill... We need to double the cost of
maintenance to keep softimage going! Or We need to double the price
of new license
a
_
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of
pete...@skynet.be
Sent: 11 March 2014 11:46
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Greg,
this is pretty much along the lines
*Subject:* A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hello Autodesk,
My name is Greg Punchatz , Senior Creative Director at Janimation. I
have a proposal, or call it a counter offer on the proper way to
retire Softimage.
First off, if you don't know who I am, I feel like I have been part
Yes. Bring back Softimage until ADSK really comes with something better,
and most important: That we are convinced that it IS BETTER.
We will migrate because of self conviction, not because we were ripped off.
Meanwhile the more time is passing. The more clients you are loosing...
: adrian wyer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:18 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
outstanding and level headed, another excellent post that no-one at autodesk
will bother to read.
can we repost/retweet this?
the more well
thanks for speaking up Jean-Louis.
Digital Golem is certainly one of those Softimage studios punching well above
their weight.
From: Emilio Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:29 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Yes
emi...@e-roja.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:29 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Yes. Bring back Softimage until ADSK really comes with something
better, and most important: That we are convinced that it IS BETTER
Greg, can I post your letter on Facebook? PLEASE!
- Original Message -
From: pete...@skynet.be
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
thanks for speaking up Jean-Louis.
Digital Golem is certainly one of those Softimage studios punching well
From: Alastair Hearsum
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:24 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Peter
Very well put. Absolutely spot on. ...
Thanks Alastair,
I would personally like a longer period of transition.
Alastair
...@glassworks.co.uk
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:24 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Peter
Very well put. Absolutely spot on. ...
Thanks Alastair,
I would personally like a longer period of transition.
Alastair
...@skynet.be wrote:
*From:* Alastair Hearsum hear...@glassworks.co.uk
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:24 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Peter
Very well put. Absolutely spot on. ...
Thanks Alastair,
I would
graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Peter
Very well put. Absolutely spot on. ...
Thanks Alastair,
I would personally like a longer period of transition.
Alastair
And somewhere appealing to migrate to I'm sure.
Having added Maya to your pipe in the past and moving away from
:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:24 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Peter
Very well put. Absolutely spot on. ...
Thanks Alastair,
I would personally like a longer period of transition.
Alastair
And somewhere appealing
I sincerely hope people from Autodesk are reading these letters because I
think it describes the situation perfectly.
If ADSK had just unveiled some amazing, next-generation DCC that combined
all the good parts of Max, Maya and Softimage into one amazing package, I
don't think you'd see nearly as
Subject: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hello Autodesk,
My name is Greg Punchatz , Senior Creative Director at Janimation. I have a
proposal, or call it a counter offer on the proper way to retire Softimage.
First off, if you don't know who I am, I feel like I have been part
Exactly Paul. I believe that all of we were first attracted to Softimage
becuase we believed in it. Not because we were forced to use it or learn
it. It was into that process of knowing Softimage, that we got in love
with it.
If only ADSK would understand this... They should first deliver
Subject: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hello Autodesk,
My name is Greg Punchatz , Senior Creative Director at Janimation. I have a
proposal, or call it a counter offer on the proper way to retire Softimage.
First off, if you don't know who I am, I feel like I
.
cv/
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Mário Domingos
[mdomingos.p...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:03 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement
: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Mário Domingos [
mdomingos.p...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:03 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Greg, can I post
/
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Mário Domingos [
mdomingos.p...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:03 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement
graceful retirement - my counter offer
Greg, can I post your letter on Facebook?
--
Sent from Mailboxhttps://www.dropbox.com/mailbox for iPhone
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com
mailto:g...@janimation.com wrote:
Hello Autodesk,
My name
: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:03 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Greg, can I post your letter on Facebook?
--
Sent from Mailboxhttps://www.dropbox.com/mailbox for iPhone
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Greg Punchatz g
you really think that they are building something new when they said that
they an;t even focus in supporting what they got so far and killing
Softimage so that they can provide better for max and maya?
How does completely new app that requires couple years of investment before
gaining any profit
I've hear a rumor that Autodesk is in area 51 taking notes from a superior
intelligence...
---
Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation.
2014-03-11 12:50 GMT-06:00 Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com:
you really think that they are building
I don't think that WAS the plan but things change. Lets say I have
a pretty good record at reading the Tea leaves The thing is they CANT
tell us even if they wanted to.
There are some smart and not so smart folks up at AD but after trying
to add to the maya code base for all
from all the things luceric said here and on the community I thought he was
pretty clear the next gen tool was Maya.
From: Greg Punchatz
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:06 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I don't think
Imo there is no money to be made on one giant 'doitall' application any
more. if anything ADSK seem to be moving away from the pro market and more
towards consumer level apps on the cloud. Including 3d printing and behance
networks
On 11 Mar 2014 19:06, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote:
*Doeke, IMHO sending soft out to pasture VS to the glue factory is the
best PR move AD could make. Doing that would actually make a huge
difference if we decide to stick with AD... and eventually move to Maya or
even better a whole new app they are building behind closed doors (I
hope).*
I didn't
:06 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I don't think that WAS the plan but things change. Lets say I
have a pretty good record at reading the Tea leaves The thing is they
CANT tell us even if they wanted
Hearsum mailto:hear...@glassworks.co.uk
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:24 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
Hi Peter
Very well put. Absolutely spot on. ...
Thanks
11, 2014 3:06 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I don't think that WAS the plan but things change. Lets
say I have a pretty good record at reading the Tea leaves
PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I don't think that WAS the plan but things change. Lets say I
have a pretty good record at reading the Tea leaves The thing is they
CANT tell us even if they wanted
I don't see AD as a chalenger. I mean AD producing a new revolutionnary
3d software would be like creating their own threat. They would be
competiting themselves. How could they sell it ? Will they say to their
clients, now you can drop Maya, we just made the ultimate 3d software ?
This just
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of phil harbath
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:12 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
from all the things luceric said here and on the community I thought he was
pretty clear
: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
from all the things luceric said here and on the community *I thought* he
was pretty clear the next gen tool was Maya.
*From:* Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:06 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
the next gen tool was Maya.
From: Greg Punchatz
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:06 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I don't think that WAS the plan but things change. Lets say I have a
pretty good record at reading
When you have a monopoly or close to there is zero need to innovate, that is a
fact.
Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com
On 11 Mar 2014, at 21:57, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote:
I don't see AD as a chalenger. I mean AD producing a new revolutionnary 3d
software would be like
the next gen tool was Maya.
*From:* Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:06 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: A more graceful retirement - my counter offer
I don't think that WAS the plan but things change. Lets say
I have
Hello Autodesk,
My name is Greg Punchatz , Senior Creative Director at Janimation. I have a
proposal, or call it a counter offer on the proper way to retire Softimage.
First off, if you don't know who I am, I feel like I have been part of the
Softimage team since the beginning of Sumatra
Doesn't seem unreasonable, considering their motivations apparently are not
competitively or economically driven. If anything it's just a lot of Money
for minimal development.
On 11 March 2014 02:49, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote:
Hello Autodesk,
My name is Greg Punchatz , Senior
yup...Hat's off to this one too!!btw!! i remember being so inspired about those goldish sea dragons you guys did a while back!!..Cant remember the project.. Maybe with phoenix tools for the ocean.? ;-)long live Janimation!sly
Sylvain Lebeau // SHEDV-P/Visual effects supervisor1410, RUE
Well Sylvain the Shed works inspires me now! The Sea serpents were for
spykids 2.. that was a blast! We got mentioned in a review from Roger Ebert
for that, good times!
Ohhh yeah!!! right!!!and thanks for you kind words Greg!Hard times ahead for sure!Best ANALogy with Maya... It's like having a new girlfriend that dont like sex... at all..sly
Sylvain Lebeau // SHEDV-P/Visual effects supervisor1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8T 514
Analogy for maya...
Feels more like herpes, passed on by that person you thought you could
trust but who jumped ship, leaving you with the sores... forever.
Too, on the nose ? :P
On 11 March 2014 03:20, Sylvain Lebeau s...@shedmtl.com wrote:
Ohhh yeah!!! right!!!
and thanks for you kind
Maya is actually OK with sex, it's just that when you actually use it the
sheer amount of times you'l tell it to go F*** itself it, understandably,
chooses to remain a wanker of a software.
hahahahhhaahhaha
Sylvain Lebeau // SHEDV-P/Visual effects supervisor1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025WWW.SHEDMTL.COMhttp://WWW.SHEDMTL.COMVFX Curriculum 03: Compositing Basicsmail to: s...@shedmtl.com
On Mar 10, 2014, at 11:27 PM, Sebastien
;-) love it
Sylvain Lebeau // SHEDV-P/Visual effects supervisor1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025WWW.SHEDMTL.COMhttp://WWW.SHEDMTL.COMVFX Curriculum 03: Compositing Basicsmail to: s...@shedmtl.com
On Mar 10, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Raffaele Fragapane
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