Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread jeffrey thomas
Chuck,

Not an ad. Yes I have deployed. I know of 2 competitors that offer sub
400 dollar CPE, as well as us.

BR,

Jeff Booher

Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950


On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 12:57:08 -0600, Chuck McCown - 3
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Have you actually deployed WiMax @ 3.65 and have experienced this first 
 hand?
 Where can I purchase sub $350 CPE on 3.65 today?
 This looks more like a vendor's ad than a WISP reporting real world 
 experiences.
 Lots of dangling comparatives.
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA General List 
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:45 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
 
 
  Since everyone was talking about wimax, thought I would throw my 3 cents
  in :)
 
 
  Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
 
  1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector
  configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver
  approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is
  supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same
  BSU.
  2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto,
  Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment )
  3. Better RF performance ( even with siso systems )
  4. NLOS performance ( OFDM+OFDMA = More difficult shots obtain link )
  5. Better QOS support, and service flows ( UGS, NRTPS, ETC can be  )
  6. Greater scalablity ( Single sector can support hundreds of
  subscribers, our platform supports 30,000 pps )
  7. Support for multiline VOIP out of box ( UGS + 30K PPS )
  8. Sub 350 cpe shipping today ( in 100 packs, less with frame order
  commitments putting your cost sub 300 )
  9. Carrier class systems vs Wisp class ( True 99.999% uptime solutions
  available for base station equipment, reducing downtime and truck rolls
  )
  10. Carrier class network management systems that simplify provisioning
  and management of subscribers and base stations.
 
  Even if you don't choose aperto, there are many options in the market to
  choose from. Talk to your local reseller about your options, Such as
  Wireless Connections and Wirelessguys carry many products to choose
  from.
 
 
  Best Regards,
 
 
  Jeff Booher
 
 
  Aperto Networks, Inc
  Channel Manager, North America
  www.apertonet.com
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  24/7: 206-455-4950
 
 
 
  On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, Mike Hammett
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
  Increased spectral efficiency
  Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased
  signal
  margin)
  Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies,
  though not now
  Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now
 
 
  --
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
 
 
   What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon?
  
   - Original Message - 
   From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
   Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
  
  
  I believe that WiMax is great...  greater than equipment we currently 
  use.
   I just don't use it at this time because of the cost.  I also don't 
   buy
   into
   a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are
   pushing.  I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, 
   committed
   bandwidth per customer.  I was told (by more than one group) because 
   of
   the
   WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 
   megs.
   Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no
   matter
   the magic.  Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth
   it.
  
   I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with
   dissimilar equipment.  Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or
   Tsunami
   introduced that just doesn't play well with others.
  
  
   --
   Mike Hammett
   Intelligent Computing Solutions
   http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
   - Original Message - 
   From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
   Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
  
  
  I do not think we should build our networks for the sole purpose of
   suckering, err, selling to someone else.  I do believe that I want
   anything I build to have value in the event I do sell. That is not
   suckering anyone. Why not build something that holds value or
   appreciates in value? I know a future plan for WISPs to build WiMax

Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread jeffrey thomas
Scottie,

We already do that. We have a sliding scale licensing model that starts
at 
16 CPE per sector. I know one other competitor that does this as well (
Airspan )




Jeff Booher

Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950


On Sun,  6 Jul 2008 19:10:03 -0500, Scottie Arnett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 It would be great if this worked for everyone, everywhere. Still vendors
 are missing the point in many cases. Every place does NOT have a
 potential for 1000 subs (there is not a 1000 homes in the town I live),
 nor is every place FLAT that can be reached with service for 1000 subs. I
 have 4 900 Mhz AP's on 4 seperate towers just to cover 150 people in one
 county we service. I could not cover that many with 4 of your 3.65Ghz,
 too many hills.
 
 Build me an AP that I can buy with licenses for a certain amount of
 subscribers. Charge me less than $10,000(or whatever yours cost, it will
 definately be higher than my 900Mhz AP) for that AP, then I will buy into
 your 3.65. The vendors are taking the same stance as the FCC on these
 rural areas, forget about them...no money to be made there. Hey even
 rural folks need broadband too, after all we are people just like in the
 big cities...only thing is, it doesn't take us an hour or longer to get
 to work everyday. :)
 
 Scott
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Sun, 06 Jul 2008 11:45:08 -0700
 
 
 Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
 
 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector
 configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver
 approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is
 supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same
 
 Aperto Networks, Inc
 Channel Manager, North America
 www.apertonet.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 24/7: 206-455-4950
 
 
 
 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, Mike Hammett
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
  Increased spectral efficiency
  Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased
  signal 
  margin)
  Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies, 
  though not now
  Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now
  
  
  --
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
  
  
   What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon?
  
   - Original Message - 
   From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
   Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
  
  
  I believe that WiMax is great...  greater than equipment we currently 
  use.
   I just don't use it at this time because of the cost.  I also don't buy
   into
   a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are
   pushing.  I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, committed
   bandwidth per customer.  I was told (by more than one group) because of
   the
   WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 
   megs.
   Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no 
   matter
   the magic.  Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth 
   it.
  
   I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with
   dissimilar equipment.  Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or 
   Tsunami
   introduced that just doesn't play well with others.
  
  
   --
   Mike Hammett
   Intelligent Computing Solutions
   http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
   - Original Message - 
   From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
   Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
  
  
  I do not think we should build our networks for the sole purpose of
   suckering, err, selling to someone else.  I do believe that I want
   anything I build to have value in the event I do sell. That is not
   suckering anyone. Why not build something that holds value or
   appreciates in value? I know a future plan for WISPs to build WiMax
   networks in 3.65 would result in better networks, better valuations
   for WISPs and better economies of scale.
  
   Leaning on 802.11 further is just not the plan we should be using for
   new bands and new opportunities like we have in 3650. We have a chance
   to build something greater than we have now. WiMax is what the rest of
   the world is already using in the 3.4 thru 3.8 GHz band. Do any of you
   think it is smarter for us to abandon the global scale afforded to us
   if we adopt WiMax in 3.65

Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread jeffrey thomas
Jack,

Drew is an operator who is already deployed with Airspan, I believe.
Is this correct Drew? 

Yes, forested areas always present a challenge, whether its 900, 700,
3.65ghz,
5.8ghz, etc etc.

-
Jeff Booher

Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950 


On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:53:12 -0700, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 Drew,
 
 Are you drawing your conclusions based on 3.65 deployments in other 
 parts of the world? I ask because it's hard to imagine that there are 
 already enough 3.65 deployments in the U.S. to draw all your conclusions.
 
 Also, physics is still physics. Even given advanced antenna systems, 
 nLOS and NLOS performance at 3.65 is still going to be limited by hills 
 and trees. No matter how advanced the APs and antenna systems, I find it 
 very hard to believe that 3.65 is going to approach the performance of 
 900 MHz inside of (or on the other side of) a forested area.
 
 
 jack
 
 
 Drew Lentz wrote:
  I completely disagree with you on this topic. 3.65 makes a great play in 
  a rural setting. I have spoken with many different groups who are 
  capitalizing exactly on what benefits this frequency space offers in 
  these environments. The price tags are not as high as you think, and the 
  return on it is far greater than just how quickly your money comes back 
  in. The ability to provide high bandwidth services in a space where you 
  can control the QoS and give your end-users the ability (soon) to choose 
  their own client device, at least to me, makes more sense than using a 
  lightweight product like 900. As fas as battling terrain changes, look 
  again at the nLOS and NLOS characteristics of 3.65 .. not to mention 
  mobility and the self-install CPE.
 
  -d
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
  
   
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 

 
 -- 
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
 Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger
 Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
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[WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-06 Thread jeffrey thomas
Since everyone was talking about wimax, thought I would throw my 3 cents
in :) 


Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector
configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver
approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is
supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same
BSU. 
2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto,
Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment ) 
3. Better RF performance ( even with siso systems ) 
4. NLOS performance ( OFDM+OFDMA = More difficult shots obtain link ) 
5. Better QOS support, and service flows ( UGS, NRTPS, ETC can be  ) 
6. Greater scalablity ( Single sector can support hundreds of
subscribers, our platform supports 30,000 pps ) 
7. Support for multiline VOIP out of box ( UGS + 30K PPS ) 
8. Sub 350 cpe shipping today ( in 100 packs, less with frame order
commitments putting your cost sub 300 ) 
9. Carrier class systems vs Wisp class ( True 99.999% uptime solutions
available for base station equipment, reducing downtime and truck rolls
) 
10. Carrier class network management systems that simplify provisioning
and management of subscribers and base stations. 

Even if you don't choose aperto, there are many options in the market to
choose from. Talk to your local reseller about your options, Such as
Wireless Connections and Wirelessguys carry many products to choose
from. 


Best Regards, 


Jeff Booher


Aperto Networks, Inc
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950



On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, Mike Hammett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Increased spectral efficiency
 Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased
 signal 
 margin)
 Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies, 
 though not now
 Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now
 
 
 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
 
 
  What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon?
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
 
 
 I believe that WiMax is great...  greater than equipment we currently use.
  I just don't use it at this time because of the cost.  I also don't buy
  into
  a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are
  pushing.  I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, committed
  bandwidth per customer.  I was told (by more than one group) because of
  the
  WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 megs.
  Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no 
  matter
  the magic.  Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth 
  it.
 
  I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with
  dissimilar equipment.  Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or 
  Tsunami
  introduced that just doesn't play well with others.
 
 
  --
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
 
 
 I do not think we should build our networks for the sole purpose of
  suckering, err, selling to someone else.  I do believe that I want
  anything I build to have value in the event I do sell. That is not
  suckering anyone. Why not build something that holds value or
  appreciates in value? I know a future plan for WISPs to build WiMax
  networks in 3.65 would result in better networks, better valuations
  for WISPs and better economies of scale.
 
  Leaning on 802.11 further is just not the plan we should be using for
  new bands and new opportunities like we have in 3650. We have a chance
  to build something greater than we have now. WiMax is what the rest of
  the world is already using in the 3.4 thru 3.8 GHz band. Do any of you
  think it is smarter for us to abandon the global scale afforded to us
  if we adopt WiMax in 3.65? I am surprised more of you are not speaking
  up and saying you agree with this philosophy. Dividing the camp on
  this will not help us as an industry.
 
  I would like to see this group, for once, accept that we need to do
  something together, as a group, for the common good. I think this is
  that opportunity. I see little reason for us to take any other course
  of action in 3.65 GHz. WISPs need to do something as a group to help
  our industry. 

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks ToRollout New WiMAX Service)

2008-01-27 Thread jeffrey thomas
hipermax = super damn expensive- George I can send you a quote from a
reseller off list-

micromax= cheaper than VL. 


On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:38:01 -0800, George Rogato
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Only thing I want to know is the price range, offlist if you must. But 
 I'm sure everyone is curious.
 
 Thanks
 
 George
 
 Eric Muehleisen wrote:
  We just completed a demo of Airspan's Hipermax in Emporia, Kansas 
  yesterday. Stutler Technologies hosted us as they are one of the largest 
  systems integrators for Airspan. I must say that I was very impressed 
  with it's NLOS performance. We tested both the indoor self install and 
  the outdoor ST Pro CPE. We achieve 6mb/s indoor at 2 miles NLOS. The 
  base station was a 1 sector install using diversity at approximately. 
  50ft up on tower using 120 degree sectors. 
  
  Email me offlist if you'd like more info and whitepapers from our testing.
  
  -Eric
  
  jeffrey thomas wrote:
  All,
 
 
  Aperto actually has a really killer product launching next month in
  3.65.
  I would state its a lot more stable than Redline's product due to their
  secret sauce. Its the same platform that is winning carriers overseas. 
 
  Airspan- yes absolutely can give you up to 10w EIRP legal- so your
  coverage
  area for fixed is literally insane- 15km NLOS @ bpsk is possible,
  according 
  to their calculator tool.  outdoor cpe is around 600 or so in single
  piece qty-
  talk to wireless guys to buy or other resellers. 
 
  BTW, I believe they just joined Wispa as a vendor member, for those that 
  sent me private mails asking them to join.
 
 
  -
 
  Jeff
 
 
 
 
  On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:19:44 -0600, Mike Hammett
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

  So then Airspan can go further (more applicable to rural markets)?
 
  If Redline's 15 mbit throughput per 7.5 MHz is correct and is similar to 
  other products in this band, a 10 MHz product would have 20 mbit
  throughput.
 
  I'm working on an Enterprise level service, so it seems like Redline's
  AN-80 
  is the only high quality product that actually has throughput
  capabilities.
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:26 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks 
  ToRollout New WiMAX Service)
 
 
  
  IIRC,
 
  3.65 ghz rules allow 1 watt EIRP per each mhz of bandwidth, thus a 7.5
  Mhz Radio would be allowed 7.5 Watts of EIRP, 10 Mhz radio would be 10
  Watts EIRP ...
 
 
  Redline cert does not reflect this... don't know why
 
  Airspan certification does get really close to it
 
  Mind me but 10 Watts EIRP if allot (about 40 db)
 
  Vendors should seek maybe 15 or 20 mhz channels
 
 
  Gino A. Villarini
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Matt Liotta
  Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:12 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks To
  Rollout New WiMAX Service)
 
  As much as I like seeing One Ring's name over and over I figured I
  switch the subject line to match the tread.
 
  Mike's comments below are accurate with regard to Redline's equipment.
  However, it should be noted that Redline was not able to get their gear
  certified at the full power output allowable for 3.65. It is for this
  reason that Redline does not believe its gear will work in rural
  markets. Remember, 3.65 was originally supposed to be for the rural
  market, which means either Redline went wrong somewhere or the FCC did.
  Additionally, Redline has not sought to get its indoor CPE certified for
 
  3.65 because of the power issue. That means urban operators are not able
 
  to offer self-install options that would greater speed up the rollout
  process.
 
  I believe WISPA should be working with the 3.65 radio vendors and the
  FCC to get things fixed such that there will be a greater opportunity
  for operators to provide services using 3.65.
 
  -Matt
 
  Mike Hammett wrote:

  The guys at Redline said their equipment is power limited due to FCC
  limitations.
 
  My point of view is based on Redline's statement of what their gear
  
  can do

  coupled with the documents filed with the FCC for their certification.
 
  The most I could get out of a PtP link was about 7 miles.  With a 90*
  sector, only about 5 miles.
 
  I agree that all else the same 3.65 is better than 5.x GHz, only it
  
  isn't

  because the power isn't there.
 
  The throughput isn't there for WiMax compliant equipment due to small
  channels.  If there were larger channel sizes, yes, it would support
  
  higher

  throughput applications.  According

Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service

2008-01-25 Thread jeffrey thomas
correct

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:15:18 -0400, Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 I thought it was 
 
 Airspan   5 mhz channel: 4.07 w
   10 mhz channel 7.24 w
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:19 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 Wow- Thats a huge difference.
 For those that don't want to pull up the link...
 
 Redline: 25Mhz ch:  1.3w
 AirSpan: 20Mhz ch: 4.07 w
 AirSpan: 15Mhz ch: 7.24 w
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  and the Redline grant:
 
 
 https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP
 YRequestTimeout=500application_id=549096fcc_id=QC8-AN100UA
 
  So Redline unit does have FAR less power available then AirSpan.
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  Airspan grant:
 
 
 https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP
  YRequestTimeout=500application_id=686827fcc_id=O2J-365T
 
  Gino A. Villarini
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
  Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
  Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:24 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
  Mike,
 
  Now that I've read those posts of yours, I better understand your
  position.
  I was not taking reduced power into consideration.  I just had in my
  mind
  the 25watts EIRP often mentioned in FCC precentations over the years.
 
  To the best of my knowledge, the AirSpan product that I am familiar
  with, do
  not have that same limitation.
  Although I do not have that data off the top of my head, to respond
  accurately.
 
  But regardless... What we have here is not a limitation by WiMax, nor
 by
 
  3.6G, nor FCC, but a limit posed by the manufacturers and their
 designs.
 
  Doesn't anyone have any insight on why the FCC rules allow more power
  for
  wider channels?
 
  I realize that wider channels create larger internal system noise,
 which
 
  could be a reason for needing more power for wider channels.
  But that is in contradiction to 2.4Ghz rules for Smart Array
 antennas,
  that
  rewarded in highr power for those that had narrower beamwidths, and
  interfere less.
  In that spirit, I would think it would have been wise to reward those
  who
  strived to use smaller channels, apposed to penalize them for being
 more
 
  efficient.
  There obviously has to be a technical reason apposed to spectrum
  ediquete.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  See my other post about Redline's comments and their FCC filed
  documents.
  It just doesn't have the power.
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  Wimax APs can go much fartehr than 2-5 miles.
  You are spec'ing the distance limits of their advanced NLOS
 features.
  In LOS, they can go just as far as any other unlicened gear.
 
  I think its important to define country.  If you are talking about
  Idaho
  with houses 20 miles apart, yes, you'd be correct. 2.4Ghz and less
 is
  the
  better option.
  But where 3.6 Wimax could be exciting is small little towns. where
 3
  6Mhz
  channels would actually be enough to get decent speed, and able to
  acheive
  high modulations because its noise free.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  Exactly.
 
  What good is an AP that can 

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks ToRollout New WiMAX Service)

2008-01-25 Thread jeffrey thomas
and actually Aperto has 21 mb throughput on a 7mhz channel


On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:19:44 -0600, Mike Hammett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 So then Airspan can go further (more applicable to rural markets)?
 
 If Redline's 15 mbit throughput per 7.5 MHz is correct and is similar to 
 other products in this band, a 10 MHz product would have 20 mbit
 throughput.
 
 I'm working on an Enterprise level service, so it seems like Redline's
 AN-80 
 is the only high quality product that actually has throughput
 capabilities.
 
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:26 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks 
 ToRollout New WiMAX Service)
 
 
  IIRC,
 
  3.65 ghz rules allow 1 watt EIRP per each mhz of bandwidth, thus a 7.5
  Mhz Radio would be allowed 7.5 Watts of EIRP, 10 Mhz radio would be 10
  Watts EIRP ...
 
 
  Redline cert does not reflect this... don't know why
 
  Airspan certification does get really close to it
 
  Mind me but 10 Watts EIRP if allot (about 40 db)
 
  Vendors should seek maybe 15 or 20 mhz channels
 
 
  Gino A. Villarini
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Matt Liotta
  Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:12 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks To
  Rollout New WiMAX Service)
 
  As much as I like seeing One Ring's name over and over I figured I
  switch the subject line to match the tread.
 
  Mike's comments below are accurate with regard to Redline's equipment.
  However, it should be noted that Redline was not able to get their gear
  certified at the full power output allowable for 3.65. It is for this
  reason that Redline does not believe its gear will work in rural
  markets. Remember, 3.65 was originally supposed to be for the rural
  market, which means either Redline went wrong somewhere or the FCC did.
  Additionally, Redline has not sought to get its indoor CPE certified for
 
  3.65 because of the power issue. That means urban operators are not able
 
  to offer self-install options that would greater speed up the rollout
  process.
 
  I believe WISPA should be working with the 3.65 radio vendors and the
  FCC to get things fixed such that there will be a greater opportunity
  for operators to provide services using 3.65.
 
  -Matt
 
  Mike Hammett wrote:
  The guys at Redline said their equipment is power limited due to FCC
  limitations.
 
  My point of view is based on Redline's statement of what their gear
  can do
  coupled with the documents filed with the FCC for their certification.
 
  The most I could get out of a PtP link was about 7 miles.  With a 90*
  sector, only about 5 miles.
 
  I agree that all else the same 3.65 is better than 5.x GHz, only it
  isn't
  because the power isn't there.
 
  The throughput isn't there for WiMax compliant equipment due to small
  channels.  If there were larger channel sizes, yes, it would support
  higher
  throughput applications.  According to Redline, 7.5 MHz only gets
  about 15
  megs of throughput with WiMax.
 
  Redline explicitly said 3.65 GHz isn't for rural applications due to
  the
  power.
 
 
  
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service

2008-01-25 Thread jeffrey thomas


Bear in mind everyone- the Airspan product is also about 2x the price of
redline on base. Its ultimately designed for zero truck roll mobility
for indoor 2km cells ( and works, Im actually sitting in Airspan's boca
facility right now, getting training on Hipermax  ) You could as well
use it for fixed NLOS. Personally I would wait on the mobility until
they release software version 8 which includes 2x2 mimo matrix A / B /
S0FDMA 1024. 

it looks pretty damn sweet. ill keep everyone posted as we have 4-5
customers rolling networks this quarter. ( we dont however sell direct,
via channel partners )  I love their new USB modems, sub 200.00 in
massive QTY

I AM ultimately excited the most about the fixed oppty, with super rad
long range fixed coverage in NLOS. 




-

Jeff

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:42:28 -0600, Mike Hammett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 and the Redline grant:
 
 https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COPYRequestTimeout=500application_id=549096fcc_id=QC8-AN100UA
 
 So Redline unit does have FAR less power available then AirSpan.
 
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  Airspan grant:
 
  https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP
  YRequestTimeout=500application_id=686827fcc_id=O2J-365T
 
  Gino A. Villarini
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
  Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:24 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
  Mike,
 
  Now that I've read those posts of yours, I better understand your
  position.
  I was not taking reduced power into consideration.  I just had in my
  mind
  the 25watts EIRP often mentioned in FCC precentations over the years.
 
  To the best of my knowledge, the AirSpan product that I am familiar
  with, do
  not have that same limitation.
  Although I do not have that data off the top of my head, to respond
  accurately.
 
  But regardless... What we have here is not a limitation by WiMax, nor by
 
  3.6G, nor FCC, but a limit posed by the manufacturers and their designs.
 
  Doesn't anyone have any insight on why the FCC rules allow more power
  for
  wider channels?
 
  I realize that wider channels create larger internal system noise, which
 
  could be a reason for needing more power for wider channels.
  But that is in contradiction to 2.4Ghz rules for Smart Array antennas,
  that
  rewarded in highr power for those that had narrower beamwidths, and
  interfere less.
  In that spirit, I would think it would have been wise to reward those
  who
  strived to use smaller channels, apposed to penalize them for being more
 
  efficient.
  There obviously has to be a technical reason apposed to spectrum
  ediquete.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  See my other post about Redline's comments and their FCC filed
  documents.
  It just doesn't have the power.
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  Wimax APs can go much fartehr than 2-5 miles.
  You are spec'ing the distance limits of their advanced NLOS features.
  In LOS, they can go just as far as any other unlicened gear.
 
  I think its important to define country.  If you are talking about
  Idaho
  with houses 20 miles apart, yes, you'd be correct. 2.4Ghz and less is
  the
  better option.
  But where 3.6 Wimax could be exciting is small little towns. where 3
  6Mhz
  channels would actually be enough to get decent speed, and able to
  acheive
  high modulations because its noise free.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
 
 
  Exactly.
 
  What good is an AP that can only do 15 megs throughput in the city?
 
  What good is an AP that can only do 2 - 5 miles in the country?
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service)

2008-01-25 Thread jeffrey thomas
This is due to the fact that they dont have the contention protocol.


On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:56:49 -0500, Mike Cowan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Not sure why but the FCC dinged Redline 10DB of tx power due average 
 vs peak power calculations.
 
 Mike
 
 
 
 At 12:26 PM 1/12/2008, you wrote:
 IIRC,
 
 3.65 ghz rules allow 1 watt EIRP per each mhz of bandwidth, thus a 7.5
 Mhz Radio would be allowed 7.5 Watts of EIRP, 10 Mhz radio would be 10
 Watts EIRP ...
 
 
 Redline cert does not reflect this... don't know why
 
 Airspan certification does get really close to it
 
 Mind me but 10 Watts EIRP if allot (about 40 db)
 
 Vendors should seek maybe 15 or 20 mhz channels
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 Mike Cowan
 Wireless Connections
 A Division of ACC
 166 Milan Ave
 Norwalk, OH  44857
 419-660-6100
 419-706-7348 Cell
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.wirelessconnections.net
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650

2007-11-20 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

All,

Airspan has submitted for the lower band ( higher power ) and supposedly 
been given the
thumbs up for their hipermax product and will be submitting for micromaxE 
as well. Airspan
supports the full 5w output power on 10mhz and 10 watt output power on 
20mhz, as well
as mimo. Currently Airspan is the only product in 3.65ghz with MIMO support 
that I know
of that can get indoors to a consumer CPE @ a 2-3 mile cell ( 95% 
availability NLOS ) that

actually is shipping TODAY.

Hipermax will be suited for metropolitan tier 1-5 operators while micromax 
will be suited for

rural operators, or smaller operators.

Hipermax operates as an 802.16d/e product at the same time while micromax is 
either d or e.


My understanding is redline will be submitting for their 802.16e product as 
well, but is
only currently certified for the upper 25mhz, not the lower 25mhz and the 
radios are only 30dbm.


( airspan hipermax is up to 4x 40dbm, mimo matrix A / B ) ( micromax is 2x2 
MIMO matrix A / B 36dbm )



No comment on Aperto's status, I have no clear idea when and if they will be 
coming out with
3.65ghz product, my current understsanding is their focus is on 5..8 fixed 
wimax in the USA

and thats it for now.

To purchase Airspan, Wireless guys www.wirelessguys.com  apparently is 
carrying them now.


To purchase redline call one of your local redline dealers.



-

Jeff






- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 5:08 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 3650


Now that P15 is reporting that 3650 is available, who all makes equipment 
for it?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?

2007-10-09 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

muliple operating frequency overlay- MOFO

Atca ( telco term for a standard they use for rack mounted blade base  
station equipment, with interoperability, you can potentially have a  
base station unit with a Airspan blade for 3.65, an aperto blade for  
5.4, and an alvarion blade for 5.8 ) Internationally this applies to  
most 3.5 ghz solutions.


SDR- software defined radio. This makes it so manufacturers can very  
easily offer additional features like 2x2 mimo, beamforming, and  
quickly port to other frequencies without needing to manufacture new  
ODU's and IDU's.



On Oct 7, 2007, at 7:01 AM, Dylan Oliver wrote:


MOFO? ATCA? SDR?

On 10/6/07, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever
as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs
would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just
BASE station equipment.

The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility
( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO
network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4
sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k
per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution
that has both a SDR system but low cost initially.

-
jeff



On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote:


We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of
the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of
the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most
aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to
the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2
standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems
(MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better
performance.

So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and
technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi!

Senthil

John Valenti wrote:

Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi
and WiMax?

I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I
would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I
have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what
WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment.

As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good
coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS
farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the
way by a mile to block my signal.  (this is using farm grain legs/
silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL)   If I switch to 900MHz,
maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles.

Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees?  I
suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end -
a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio.  And does AP
height help a lot?  I don't see an advantage to paying commercial
tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that
changes with WiMax.
--- 
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Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?

2007-10-09 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

There specs said 36dbm ( 5 watts ) I thought


On Oct 7, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:


I think it was 300Mil, not 5.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?

All,

Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology,
which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's
performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and  
CPE.


4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE
and I think around 10 watts on the base in power?

( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then
sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment )

-
Jeff






On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



2.5 has great range  penetration.  ClearWire, as an example, had
solid
indoor coverage 2 miles away.  I live in an apartment complex thats
out of
coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an
apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre  
forest

conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and
still
get 1Mbps...

Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only
self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP
models, unless
you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1
replacement).

We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own
wireless
network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum).

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi  
and

WiMax?

I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would
be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that
mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means
in a rural, tree filled environment.

As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good
coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS
farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the
way by a mile to block my signal.  (this is using farm grain legs/
silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL)   If I switch to 900MHz,
maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles.

Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees?  I
suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a
laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio.  And does AP
height help a lot?  I don't see an advantage to paying commercial
tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that  
changes

with WiMax.

- 
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Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?

2007-10-09 Thread Jeffrey Thomas


All,

Again, remember that patrick works for 1 company while I personally
have the freedom as a consumer to talk to EVERYONE making equipment.

yes a licensed version will look like an unlicensed, but will be just  
limited in

output power.

 What is the point however of  using 802.16e over 802.16d if you  
don't have the proper

spectrum? Cmon! 1048 ofdm? still gotta go outdoors @ 5.8ghz!

I just ran a link budget ( for fun and games ) - utilizing a high  
powered, high capacity
base station solution @ 5.8 ghz for a NLOS cpe. This company uses  
beamforming,
2 x 2 mimo, uplink subchannelization, and guess what the effective  
range per cell

for an indoor, window mounted CPE?

.5KM @ 75% penetration @ bpsk 1/2.  .25km for a self install @ 90%  
penetration.


802.16e doesn't always mean mobile, but some companies are coming
out with solutions where there isnt backwards compatibility to  
802.16d ( dont ask me why )
It all depends on who the MFR is, ( Axcellera is one, Solectek  
another ) The point
is 802.16d is still DAMN sweet gear that can get you greater  
scaleability ( try up to
1000 subscribers per sector, or 8000 subscribers per base ) Carrier  
grade voice

services, video services, T-1 grade internet, etc.



-

Jeff



On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:


Another inaccurate post. Jeff assumes that a UL WiMAX 5.8 GHz system
will look like a licensed version. He also assumes 802.16e means  
mobile

-- it does not, 802.16e systems can be mobile, fixed, nomadic or
combinations of these. The WiMAX Forum will eventually have an 802.16e
profile for 5 GHz, but the systems themselves will be designed for the
realities of UL in 5 GHz (so they will be designed for fixed). As  
such,
they will not have lots of the expensive things needed in a mobile  
WiMAX

network like ASN gateways, AAA servers, etc.

At this point, it is probably best to ignore Jeff's posts regarding
WiMAX. They are thus far simply wildly off the mark.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?

802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever
as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs
would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just
BASE station equipment.

The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility
( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO
network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4
sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k
per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution
that has both a SDR system but low cost initially.

-
jeff



On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote:


We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of
the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of
the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most
aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to
the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2
standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems
(MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better
performance.

So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and
technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi!

Senthil

John Valenti wrote:

Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi
and WiMax?

I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I
would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I
have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what
WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment.

As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good
coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS
farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the
way by a mile to block my signal.  (this is using farm grain legs/
silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL)   If I switch to 900MHz,
maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles.

Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees?  I
suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end -
a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio.  And does AP
height help a lot?  I don't see an advantage to paying commercial
tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that
changes with WiMax.
 
-



---

** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th
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Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?

2007-10-07 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

All,

Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology,
which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's
performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE.

4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE
and I think around 10 watts on the base in power?

( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then
sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment )

-
Jeff






On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

2.5 has great range  penetration.  ClearWire, as an example, had  
solid
indoor coverage 2 miles away.  I live in an apartment complex thats  
out of

coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an
apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest
conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and  
still

get 1Mbps...

Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only
self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP  
models, unless
you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1  
replacement).


We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own  
wireless

network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum).

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and
WiMax?

I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would
be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that
mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means
in a rural, tree filled environment.

As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good
coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS
farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the
way by a mile to block my signal.  (this is using farm grain legs/
silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL)   If I switch to 900MHz,
maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles.

Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees?  I
suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a
laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio.  And does AP
height help a lot?  I don't see an advantage to paying commercial
tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes
with WiMax.

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Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?

2007-10-07 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever  
as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs  
would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just  
BASE station equipment.


The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility  
( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO  
network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4  
sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k  
per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution  
that has both a SDR system but low cost initially.


-
jeff



On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote:

We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of  
the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of  
the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most   
aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to  
the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2  
standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems  
(MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better  
performance.


So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and  
technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi!


Senthil

John Valenti wrote:
Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi  
and WiMax?


I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I  
would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I  
have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what  
WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment.


As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good  
coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS  
farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the  
way by a mile to block my signal.  (this is using farm grain legs/ 
silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL)   If I switch to 900MHz,  
maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles.


Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees?  I  
suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end -  
a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio.  And does AP  
height help a lot?  I don't see an advantage to paying commercial  
tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that  
changes with WiMax.
- 
---


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th  
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** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA
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** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// 
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Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

2007-10-02 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

They have submitted for several OET's from my understanding, for those
frequencies.


On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:52 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:


And speaking of misleading Jeff, you should do the basic diligence
before reporting what is or is not available in the U.S. from any
vendor. All are welcome to check who has what available at least in  
the

U.S. via this search. Jeff, if you are accurate, you'll see all these
frequency options for versions on the OET equipment authorization
search. Of the seven you list Jeff, only two are available. The  
rest is

just talk or a place mark on a future roadmap. See for yourself:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm


Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

...not misleading fluff, Airspan for example is shipping TODAY
802.16-2004
compliant ( not wimax compliant, not that it matters considering
there is
no wimax interop for QOS, so really who cares anyways ) solutions in
  1.4, 2.3, 2.5, 3.3-37, 5.4, 4.9, and 5.8ghz bands.

-
Jeff




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Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

2007-10-02 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Rick,

When your Rep @  xyz company says they have applied for FCC clearance
and expect type certification to be completed within 2-3 weeks, I would
say thats pretty good info, you are correct that I probably should  
take the time to
verify everything they have stated- and I do agree I should have  
qualified

that within my original response. Anyways, sorry to bother.

tks,

Jeff

On Oct 2, 2007, at 1:40 PM, Rick Harnish wrote:


Have you verified your information source with research or are you
suggesting we believe your third party understanding?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

They have submitted for several OET's from my understanding, for those
frequencies.


On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:52 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:


And speaking of misleading Jeff, you should do the basic diligence
before reporting what is or is not available in the U.S. from any
vendor. All are welcome to check who has what available at least in
the
U.S. via this search. Jeff, if you are accurate, you'll see all these
frequency options for versions on the OET equipment authorization
search. Of the seven you list Jeff, only two are available. The
rest is
just talk or a place mark on a future roadmap. See for yourself:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm


Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

...not misleading fluff, Airspan for example is shipping TODAY
802.16-2004
compliant ( not wimax compliant, not that it matters considering
there is
no wimax interop for QOS, so really who cares anyways ) solutions in
  1.4, 2.3, 2.5, 3.3-37, 5.4, 4.9, and 5.8ghz bands.

-
Jeff




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Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

2007-10-01 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Patrick,

I disagree, as most of the network operators, internationally
that I have spoken with have stated that they currently have no  
interest in 802.16
and are just looking for standards  based solutions that utilize  
802.16a-2004 chipsets.

They just want QOS capable, scalable, FIXED BROADBAND WIRELESS ACCESS.

In the US there are very LIMITED # of providers than have access to  
licensed
2 ghz bands, so i don't understand clearly why the 2ghz profile would  
matter
as much, since you literally have 2 players in that space, now  
actually one, xohm.


not misleading fluff, Airspan for example is shipping TODAY 802.16-2004
compliant ( not wimax compliant, not that it matters considering  
there is

no wimax interop for QOS, so really who cares anyways ) solutions in
 1.4, 2.3, 2.5, 3.3-37, 5.4, 4.9, and 5.8ghz bands.

-

Jeff

On Sep 28, 2007, at 3:59 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:


Jeff,

That would be stretching to the extreme since the simple point of fact
is that there is no WiMAX Forum profile for the AWS bands. No profile
means no ecosystem. No ecosystem means no chips and no devices in  
scale

or interoperability between suppliers.

Folks, right now there is only one profile in WiMAX that matters and
these are the ones based on 802.16e-2005 in 2.3, 2.5 and 3.5 GHz  
ranges.

Those are the only bands for which the ecosystem is revolving and
evolving right now. Other may be added at some point, but right now
anything else is misleading fluff.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:17 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

Scriv,

I know of 2 MFR's that are SHIPPING wimax in your band you hold
licenses for. hit me offlist.

tks,

Jeff

On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:12 PM, John Scrivner wrote:


So Patrick, if an operator has an interest in launching WiMAX using
BreezeMax will Alvarion help them find and acquire access to a
license in the market they are looking to launch? I know that is
not your area of expertise but I also know that other competitive
vendors are doing just this type of work to help operators get in
the game.

If not I know that Kris Twomey and Stephen Coran are both capable
of helping in this process. I am working on this myself.

It would be nice if an AWS profile were being established for WiMAX
(since I have a license in this band which NOBODY has done anything
with yet). I guess it will happen once someone steps up and places
a BIG order!  :-)
Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:

 The way, the link to the Secondary Market specific search is:
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLease.jsp

 Spectrum Lease Search

A new ULS feature to search for spectrum leases, including
searches on
fields unique to leasing. The spectrum lease search results page is
standard ULS format with a link to lease details. The spectrum lease
detail page, also standard ULS format, is similar to license
detail in
that the lease information is displayed in tabs such as Main, Admin,
Technical Data, and Market.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World
Chicago, September 25-27
Booth #409

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

Yes and the FCC site has a specific search feature just for these
things
and refers to this activity as Secondary Markets.

Patrick Alvarion

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

Is there a documentation/reporting requirement of EBS spectrum
holders
that requires them to report who they leased their spectrum to,
and when/if
they leased it?
In other words, does the FCC search just show the original spectrum
holder (educational insititute) or also the subleasee?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Patrick Leary
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum


The band generally called 2.5 refers to an almost 200 MHz
collection
of spectrum divided up about 60% as non-profit EBS (educational
broadband service) spectrum and 40% commercially auctioned BRS
(broadband radio service) spectrum. These were formerly called ITFS
(instructional fixed television service) and MMDS (multimedia
distribution service). The original allocation was for one-way  
cable

Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

2007-09-28 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Scriv,

I know of 2 MFR's that are SHIPPING wimax in your band you hold  
licenses for. hit me offlist.


tks,

Jeff

On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:12 PM, John Scrivner wrote:

So Patrick, if an operator has an interest in launching WiMAX using  
BreezeMax will Alvarion help them find and acquire access to a  
license in the market they are looking to launch? I know that is  
not your area of expertise but I also know that other competitive  
vendors are doing just this type of work to help operators get in  
the game.


If not I know that Kris Twomey and Stephen Coran are both capable  
of helping in this process. I am working on this myself.


It would be nice if an AWS profile were being established for WiMAX  
(since I have a license in this band which NOBODY has done anything  
with yet). I guess it will happen once someone steps up and places  
a BIG order!  :-)

Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:

 The way, the link to the Secondary Market specific search is:
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLease.jsp

 Spectrum Lease Search

A new ULS feature to search for spectrum leases, including  
searches on

fields unique to leasing. The spectrum lease search results page is
standard ULS format with a link to lease details. The spectrum lease
detail page, also standard ULS format, is similar to license  
detail in

that the lease information is displayed in tabs such as Main, Admin,
Technical Data, and Market.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World
Chicago, September 25-27
Booth #409

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

Yes and the FCC site has a specific search feature just for these  
things

and refers to this activity as Secondary Markets.

Patrick Alvarion

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum

Is there a documentation/reporting requirement of EBS spectrum  
holders
that requires them to report who they leased their spectrum to,  
and when/if

they leased it?
In other words, does the FCC search just show the original spectrum
holder (educational insititute) or also the subleasee?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Patrick Leary  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum


The band generally called 2.5 refers to an almost 200 MHz  
collection

of spectrum divided up about 60% as non-profit EBS (educational
broadband service) spectrum and 40% commercially auctioned BRS
(broadband radio service) spectrum. These were formerly called ITFS
(instructional fixed television service) and MMDS (multimedia
distribution service). The original allocation was for one-way cable,
but over the past years the band has been re-configured for broadband
service.

In any one area a variety of commercial and non-profits have various
channels. The FCC allows the non-profits (including the schools you
refer to) to sublet the spectrum to commercial operators.

The 2.3 range is called WCS (wireless communications services)  
and is
different than the 2.5, both in terms of typical available channel  
sizes

and technical rules.

BellSouth, as part of the ATT acquisition thereof, was required  
by the

feds to sell its stake in the commercial 2.5 GHz bands (principally
around Florida and New Orleans). Clearwire bought these assets for  
$300

million a few months back.

- Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:52 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum



It looks as though BellSouth and Nextel have the 2.3 and Nextel  
has the

2.5.
I thought they set aside some of those frequencies for schools?  
Can the

schools still have the license along with the big guys?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Leasing 2.3 or 2.5 GHz Licensed Spectrum


That's a very simple process Scottie, which is achieved using the FCC
Web
site. From the home page of www.fcc.gov, go to the Wireless
Telecommunications Bureau area (choice on the right, scrolled down a
tad),
then go to License Search (also a choice on the right).  
Specifically, go

here: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp

On this page I prefer 

Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work

2007-09-07 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

All,

focusing on the future of white space is so far  off that you can't even
assume that the current technologies used will even apply ( or there  
will be a market

for WISPs to service ) If I was any of you I would be banging down the
FCC's door to get decent output power ( greater than 1w EIRP )
for 3.65 otherwise there is no NLOS magic wisp bullet ever.
its back to good ol LOS!



On Aug 9, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:


To reinforce Steve's comment, Butch it is not only the technology that
will very distinct, but the applications running across such spectrum
will be distinct. Most likely we'd see some sort of future TV-ish
application, one that is interactive, user selectable in terms of
content and God knows what else.

And as Steve noted, the technology will be a big challenge. Not only
must such devices deal with protecting broadcasts, but it will also  
have

to not interfere with the millions of low end receivers in the market
sitting in every home in the U.STVs.

Basically, for the white space a whole ecosystem will have to be  
created

and evolve and know one has any real idea what this will look like.

I would estimate that we are years from any mass usage of white space
and frankly, bwa vendors have their hands full at the moment with the
other current and forthcoming bands. For example, our RD run rate is
better than $13M a quarter -- a massive pace, especially relative to
those companies you are familiar with (it is a number equivalent to  
some

WISP vendors full year of revenues) and every dollar of that is going
toward development and evolution of products for the current and  
growing

unlicensed and licensed markets.

Long before anything can be done with the white space we have to deal
with 3.65 and 700, much less all the current frequencies.

BTW, I do know a little about the device the IT companies forwarded to
the FCC. Let's just say that these IT companies are gurus of tech, but
they are clearly not exactly radio guys!

- Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Patrick Leary wrote:


Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike,
which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early
to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require
some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be
broader than fixed wireless as we know it today.


I presume you're referring to mobile applications.  I know that you
(Alvarion) have a mobile 900 product, so the step to this lower band
should be and easy one for that technology anyway.

You don't have any information on what device the FCC tested and
failed, do you?  You're the guy that would know if anyone does.  :-)

--
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Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
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Re: [WISPA] Airspan launches 3.65 gear

2007-06-21 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

offlist

On Jun 20, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


any pricing yet


On 6/20/07, Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


http://www.marketwirecanada.com/2.0/release.do?id=744234



Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

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[WISPA] Testing....123

2007-04-12 Thread Jeffrey Thomas



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Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans

2007-04-02 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
*high fives charles*




On 4/2/07 3:44 PM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Honestly,
 
 Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each?
 
 -Charles 
 
 
 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chad Halsted
 Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch
 Evans
 
 I would disagree with that.
 
 Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system
 would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their
 decision.  There are plenty of solutions available that are just as
 cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered.
 
 
 
 On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up
 the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time,
 efforts, etc.
 
 Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How
 many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is
 everyone's limit? ;)
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 
 Butch Evans wrote:
 On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote:
 
 As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this
 country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the
 radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could
 
 that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their
 boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC
 certification?
 
 Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they
 
 build.  FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify
 some Mikrotik radios.  You can help yourself here by going to YOUR
 vendor and asking them to do the same.
 
 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?

2007-03-02 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
That's an age old question.

Anyone have any ideas what's up with it?

-


Jeff



On 3/2/07 1:29 AM, wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I spent some time reading the latest R  O about the 3650 spectrum, which is
 dated back in 2005.
 
 http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf
 
 I am, however, unable to understand what the present status is.  Does anyone
 have that information?  What's going on...or not going on?
 
 
 
 Mark Koskenmaki   Neofast, Inc
 Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
 541-969-8200


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Re: [WISPA] WA State WISPS

2007-02-14 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Ryan,

The DNR is really flexible on those rates. Where is the tower you
Are considering leasing?

Btw, My Girlfreind's roomate works for the DNR in Wa state, I can ask her
what she would recommend to offer.

-

Jeff




On 2/14/07 1:00 PM, Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anyone?
 
 ryan
 
 D. Ryan Spott wrote, On 2/13/2007 4:43 PM:
 Hello all!
 
 I am looking at leasing space on the ground or on a tower owned by WA
 State Department of Natural Resources.
 
 When I look at the leasing brochure they list wireless broadband
 providers and cellular telephone carriers as a you must negotiate
 rate.
 
 So.. do any of you have existing leases? Are you willing to share
 ballpark figures for leasing space?
 
 Thanks!
 
 ryan
 
 
 ps: I joined and already posted this to the WA State WISPA list..
 
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Re: [WISPA] churn, double play and why WLP is key - I finallyunderstand it

2007-01-22 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Tom,

I just read this now- but I would say that you likely didn't deploy a
packetwave with the CBR qos enabled. Aperto works like crap if you don't
Set up service flows on a bsr.




On 1/9/07 9:41 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jeff,
 
 Not to be confrontational but.
 
 400 calls per sector
 
 Hogwash, not a chance in heXX.
 
 I do agree that Aperto was one of the first products in the market place to
 offer full feature sets in one package, with strengths on its QOS and
 Bandwidth management, and NLOS ability.  A lot of smart innovated things on
 their radios, much earlier than other vendors.
 
 But its down fall was limiting itself to only 6 Mhz channels, and mandatory
 pre-defined split of bandwidth allocated for each direction, limiting its
 possible bandwdith to approximately 1/6 what the VL could deliver REAL
 WORLD.  Aperto limited themselves to believe there wouldn't be fast enough
 backhauls to justify having faster sectors, which was wrong. They also
 didn't consider noise as a key factor, when doing their math on what speed
 they could get with 6Mhz.  Then throw in their lack of having remote live
 testing tools, so half the time it was hard to even know what performance
 was even being acheived, without a truck roll and taking the client down to
 test.
 
 I got better VOIP performance out of our Trango's than I did Aperto, which
 is why we pulled our Aperto out of DC.
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:02 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] churn, double play and why WLP is key - I
 finallyunderstand it
 
 
 
 I believe it can now be said without reservation, that if you are using
 unlicensed and wanting to implement a double play of VoIP + data, the
 ONLY product out there that can do it in scale and with toll quality is
 BreezeACCESS VL.
 
 
 Bzzz.. Wrong.
 
 Aperto supports toll quality voice of about 400 calls per sector, on 1/3
 of
 the channel width that vl requires.
 
 Other than aperto though, I would agree with most of your sentiments.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] churn, double play and why WLP is key - I finally understand it

2007-01-09 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

 I believe it can now be said without reservation, that if you are using
 unlicensed and wanting to implement a double play of VoIP + data, the
 ONLY product out there that can do it in scale and with toll quality is
 BreezeACCESS VL. 


Bzzz.. Wrong.

Aperto supports toll quality voice of about 400 calls per sector, on 1/3 of
the channel width that vl requires.

Other than aperto though, I would agree with most of your sentiments.

-

Jeff


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Re: [WISPA] Brad B, I got your answer on the pinout for BreezeACCESSVL

2007-01-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
But you still date 24 year olds

;)

-
Jeff



On 1/5/07 3:29 PM, Forbes Mercy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 H I'm 48 - gawd I just looked at that in print and it is WAY too old for
 me.
 
 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband, Inc.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 Of Butch Evans
 Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 2:56 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Brad B, I got your answer on the pinout for
 BreezeACCESSVL
 
 On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Patrick Leary wrote:
 
 Sigh. I guess at 42 I qualify for old man to some of you
 whipper-snappers!
 
 42 is NOT OLD!  42 is the meaning to life, the universe and
 everything! (and you're right there in it!)


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Re: [WISPA] Trango at ISPCON

2006-11-14 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Brian,

Standards don't really matter unless you have interop on the mac layer as
well as QOS.With just MAC and phy layer interoperability, the only thing
that will be supported is simple bridging and routing when you use seperate
vendor's CPE and Base stations.  btw, no one is currently supporting QOS
interoperability. 

 Also currently there is only one company that has released 5.8 product
using 802.16a technology and is expected to be interoperable should other
vendors roll out product utilizing a 10mhz channel width. The whole Wimax
revolution really doesn't matter to Wisp's in the US if unlicensed bands are
never expected to be supported.


-

Jeff





On 11/14/06 12:07 PM, Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 Tom DeReggi wrote:
 
 Trango repeated its WISP summit at ISPCON again this year as well.
 The purpose was to ask WISPs what they need in next generation
 products, and disclose upcomming products.
 It was also exciting to learn more about their next generation WIMax
 product. The advantage of that platform, is its early enough in the
 development process that there is still time for Trango to add
 features that WISPs requested, to make it a better solution. A lot of
 neet ideas were pitched, hopefully Trango will implement  some of
 them, to compliment their offering. Trango's approach is to take WiMax
 chipset, with the option to run a standard WiMax MAC, but shipped
 default with Trango's modified Firmware to fit nicely in line with
 existing Trango gear firmware features and tools. This would also have
 the side effect of giving WiMax features at Lower prices than WIMax
 competitors, and more unique differenciators than competitors by not
 being limited to standards.
 
 I thought one main advantage of WiMax was the standards.  By not
 following standards the customers ARE limited.  Everyone knows that
 every install is different.  I thought with WiMax we might actually get
 to pick the right gear for each job.  Can't do that without standards.
 They only want to keep you locked in.  I hate being locked into one
 thing.  You can never use better gear when it comes out because you are
 locked into old crap.
 
 My perception, is that the 10mbps solution would continue as the low
 cost options, but the WIMax line would be the high end product
 delivering higher capacity / Higher feature gear, that would be priced
 somewhere between 5830 and Fox lines.   My understanding is that Live
 versions were displayed at Wimax World.  Its not appropriate to
 discuss exact features yet, for obvious competitive reasons of a not
 yet released product.  It could be a real exciting product, and
 something worth keeping an eye on as it develops.  Unfortuneately
 though, this is not an option for us today, as the product has not yet
 been released, and probably won't for about 6 month. (Disclaimer: not
 an authorized time prediction listed)
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 


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Re: [WISPA] Airband acquires RedWire with eye on WiMAX

2006-10-18 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Congrats to Jim~ I know they worked long and hard to be bought out :)

-

Jeff



On 10/17/06 2:24 PM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27551


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Re: [WISPA] Ma Bell's About Face On Muni-WiFi

2006-09-01 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
The core issue all these mesh networks is they were not built with proper
density which by our calculations for a network the size of mountain view
would be about 45 nodes per sq mile, instead of the 30-32 nodes per square
mile implemented. 

YMMV...

-

Jeff
 




On 8/30/06 9:29 AM, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Matt,
 
 We are on the same page, trust me. There has yet to be a solidly working
 civic access muni network. By solidly, I mean indoor coverage without
 forced buying of a secondary CPE. We have also yet to see a successfully
 scaled mesh network for low cost civic access. Philly and San Fran are
 still on paper only. These networks are able to provide good outdoor
 coverage only so far. That is also why we like playing the multipoint
 backhaul layer. We can reliably deliver that middle layer and get high
 connectivity for the mesh nodes, fixed cameras, traffic lights, a city
 buildings, but the success of the Wi-Fi layer is beyond our control and
 remains the questionable piece.
 
 Patrick
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:10 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ma Bell's About Face On Muni-WiFi
 
 Patrick Leary wrote:
 I agree that many WISPs have panned muni wi-fi instead of leveraging
 their expertise. WISPs were arguably best positioned initially to
 address this need. Smart VARs and resellers got busy though and
 whether
 WISPs realize it, almost all the VARs that serve the WISP community
 now
 have a muni engagement. It is just a business reality.
 
   
 And why shouldn't they? If you are radio vendor, reseller, or VAR muni
 Wi-Fi is a great thing. You get to sell a bunch radios and consulting
 time. It doesn't matter if the business plan makes sense or if the
 network even works long term. operators on the other hand have to be
 concerned about the long-term.
 
 Patrick,
 
 I bet your radios are doing great technically in the Mountain View
 deployment, but you stated you personally aren't able to use the Wi-Fi
 portion of the network. Does that make the network a failure from your
 perspective as a consumer?
 
 -Matt


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Re: [WISPA] Not me, no way!

2006-08-28 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Its quicktime. The down arrow on the left hand side has an option save as
source..

-

Jeff



On 8/28/06 10:24 AM, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Great video !!!1
 
 Anyone knows has to save this to disk ?
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
 Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:44 PM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Not me, no way!
 
 http://www.pockethercules.com/broadcast_detail16.html
 
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Not me, no way!

2006-08-28 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
I take that back, the right hand side.




On 8/28/06 12:07 PM, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Its quicktime. The down arrow on the left hand side has an option save as
 source..
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 
 On 8/28/06 10:24 AM, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Great video !!!1
 
 Anyone knows has to save this to disk ?
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
 Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:44 PM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Not me, no way!
 
 http://www.pockethercules.com/broadcast_detail16.html
 
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] OT, online contact groups

2006-07-24 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
I use both. I find them pretty useful, actually.




On 7/24/06 5:14 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I keep getting offers to sign up for plaxo, linked in etc.
 
 I've NEVER signed up for any.  They seem too much like email harvesting or
 porn jerks to me.
 
 Am I off base here?  Some people that I highly respect have come across my
 desk with these types of systems.  I just don't particularly care to put my
 email and personal contact info in the hands of any more people that I don't
 know if I can trust with it.
 
 Are these companies legit?  Do they promise that they will NEVER give or
 sell your data to anyone else?  How do they make their money?
 
 I'm having trouble trusting anyone over the internet these days
 
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Zcomax has WIMAX?

2006-06-13 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Sure- but they don't have any plans to make base stations, so none of the
base station  manufacturer provided QOS mechanisms will work with zcomax
clients.


-

Jeff




On 6/12/06 7:44 PM, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.zcom.com.tw/news001.htm
 


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Re: [WISPA] Wimax corrections-The info is out there if you look

2006-06-13 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Title: Re: [WISPA] Wimax corrections-The info is out there if you look



On the CPE pricing... Yup, and the only one shipping 5.8 product yet is Airspan. 

-

Jeff



On 6/13/06 6:42 AM, Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

A few corrections: 
The issue with 3.650 is the FCC has not decided on ANY spec. Wimax was never a 3.650 issue and this has been corrected time and time again. The FCC has stated publicly many times that Wimax was never overlooked as a platform. The wifi crowd took the contention based excerpt to the extreme and the drum beat continues today.
Wimax will do more than current 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz OFDM products. Just to name a few -Bits per hertz increased, packets per second through the radio increased, Standardization, 256 OFDM vs 64 OFDM and many more differences. And if you're comparing Wimaxed OFDM solutions to DS based systems there are major differences. Please keep in mind that not all pre-Wimax OFDM systems are comparable. 
The current Wimax protocol is not interference resilient. However, there is a body in the forum working on a solution called 802.16h.
Expect to see sub $300 cpe this yearsurprise .it's already here. Brad






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:09 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Zcomax has WIMAX?
 
Few things of info:
- 3.5Ghz is not not license free in the, 50Mhz at 3.65 is but there are issue with using this with WiMax
- WiMax does NOT do any more at 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz then the products on the market today in reference to RF not protocol. 
- The WiMax protocol has many cool features but are based on a model where there is little or no interface. 
- I would not expect to see any WiMax product near pricing most WISP pay today to mid 2007 end 2008. I am sure by then there will be sub $100 CPE using the other standards which will have most if not all the features WiMax has in the spec.
 
Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com http://www.demarctech.com/ 
 
This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication


 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jenco Wireless
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Zcomax has WIMAX?

Why is the 3.5 Wi-Max license free band not approved in the U.S. ??? 

 

 

-- Brad H



On 6/12/06, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
http://www.zcom.com.tw/news001.htm


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Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front

2006-06-12 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Johnny-o,


I have made some mistakes in the past, however this is wimax- and for the
most part I have no reason to believe any of their claims are false or
Filled with marketing goobly gook.

Aperto always did and has performed well beyond it's claims. I admit fault
In intially thinking that the product from vivato would be interesting,
Of course as many of you know now, they never had a real phased array
antenna and with the noise floor where it is in 2.4, doesn't make much
Of a difference. Airspan I have had some experience with ( their wipll
platform ) and everything that they claim about it is actually true,
So I would naturally assume that this is the same case. Additionally,
If they didn't know what they were doing they wouldn't have deployments
Like the one they have in japan that has over 25,000 CPE's, ( using the same
product ) or the one They have in mexico that has 750,000 clients.

-

Jeff



On 6/8/06 9:31 PM, JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jeff - how many other platforms have you tooted the horn on that have
 never produced the results you claimed ? Not trying to rain on your
 parade here, but every platform you've tooted ranting raves about, has
 never lived up to it's hype from what I have seen.
 
 JohnnyO
 
 Wanting to be a believer
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:22 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
 
 
 Simple. Since the CPE self provisions and aligns itself, the customer
 only need to know they need to install the device on their rooftop. And
 they also have indoor devices that work to maybe a KM or so from the
 tower but those Are as simple as a customer plugs in the ethernet plug
 and power and puts The CPE near a window. I honestly doubt anyone will
 use them, but they Are available.
 
 So really zero truck roll? Not really as most customers will want the
 wisp to install it- but the major benefit is that the CPE's will not
 require techs to carry a pc or anything other than cabling and tools to
 set up the roof mount.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 
 On 6/8/06 8:04 PM, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Color me jaded, but how can you get a zero truck roll CPE in 5.4-5.9
 unlicensed?
 
 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 Guys,
 
 Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8.
 Unlike most other vendors, they are going to market with their
 802.16-2004 5.4-5.9
 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for
 their 802.16-2004
 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as
 the
 3 plus
 years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone
 can
 deploy
 in will be available.
 
 
 So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as
 of yet, ( and they havent even decided when they will be certifying
 vendors ) this product will
 be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade
 for
 Wimax 
 forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the
 802.16-2004 
 spec as planned.
 
 some notes on the product:
 
 initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side
 of things,
  
 
 600.00 / cpe

 
 
 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM
 
 full service flow integration for QOS
 
 can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel
 
 zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment )
 
 full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration
 authentication provisioning security )
 
 
 color me excited :)
 
 -
 
 Jeff
  
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

2006-06-12 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
AirmatrixOS is not starOS and does offer vlans. Its its own web based OS.

You can order their stuff with starOS, but that's really only specific
custoemrs that order it anymore.

-

Jeff



On 6/8/06 10:03 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Airmatrix does VLAN but its uses StarOS, so it does VLAN the wrong way for
 some one trying to sell to carriers.
 If you sell to a carrier, they are going towant to be delivered a minimum of
 1500 MTU. StarOS can't do that with VLAN.
 However, if you didn;t need VLAN, Defacto does give EXCELLENT support.  And
 they ship ONTIME.  They aren't the cheapest, but they give the value you are
 looking for.
 
 Mikrotik is the preferred solution if you need to do VLAN. Wisp-Router also
 offers support.
 He's been in business now for atleast 10 years.  He may charge you by the
 minute, but not at a rate any higher than Cisco would charge you.
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
 
 
 I could be missing the product you are suggesting, but the only dual radio
 products I can find our base station products. I not looking for a base
 station, I am looking for something client facing. Further, I see no
 mention of VLAN support.
 
 -Matt
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 Airmatrix can do that.
 
 www.defactowireless.com
 
 
 On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 13:17:30 -0400, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 said:
 
 I am looking for a device with the following requirements:
 
 * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band
 * Can support VLANs
 * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port
 * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required)
 * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different VLAN
 than the Ethernet port
 * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure
 
 Any ideas?
 
 -Matt
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Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front

2006-06-12 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Yup. Jeffrey thomas Booher.




On 6/9/06 4:36 AM, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Isn't Jeffrey Thomas = Jeff Boher ?
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of JohnnyO
 Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:58 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
 
 Jeffrey Thomas - DOH ! - For some reason I had Jeff Booher on the brain
 and made mistake of making this post ! ! ! ! Please - pretty please
 forgive me for mixing you up ?
 
 /me holds head down and kicks rocks
 
 JohnnyO
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of JohnnyO
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:32 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
 
 
 Jeff - how many other platforms have you tooted the horn on that have
 never produced the results you claimed ? Not trying to rain on your
 parade here, but every platform you've tooted ranting raves about, has
 never lived up to it's hype from what I have seen.
 
 JohnnyO
 
 Wanting to be a believer
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:22 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
 
 
 Simple. Since the CPE self provisions and aligns itself, the customer
 only need to know they need to install the device on their rooftop. And
 they also have indoor devices that work to maybe a KM or so from the
 tower but those Are as simple as a customer plugs in the ethernet plug
 and power and puts The CPE near a window. I honestly doubt anyone will
 use them, but they Are available.
 
 So really zero truck roll? Not really as most customers will want the
 wisp to install it- but the major benefit is that the CPE's will not
 require techs to carry a pc or anything other than cabling and tools to
 set up the roof mount.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 
 On 6/8/06 8:04 PM, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Color me jaded, but how can you get a zero truck roll CPE in 5.4-5.9
 unlicensed?
 
 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 Guys,
 
 Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8.
 Unlike most other vendors, they are going to market with their
 802.16-2004 5.4-5.9
 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for
 their 802.16-2004
 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as
 the
 3 plus
 years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone
 can
 deploy
 in will be available.
 
 
 So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as
 of yet, ( and they havent even decided when they will be certifying
 vendors ) this product will
 be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade
 for
 Wimax
 forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the
 802.16-2004 
 spec as planned.
 
 some notes on the product:
 
 initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side
 of things,
  
 
 600.00 / cpe

 
 
 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM
 
 full service flow integration for QOS
 
 can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel
 
 zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment )
 
 full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration
 authentication provisioning security )
 
 
 color me excited :)
 
 -
 
 Jeff
  
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

2006-06-12 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Lets say you are using vlans to not only segment traffic, but priortize
traffic as well. So a double tagged vlan, would give you the ability to
create  A vlan for segmentation and a VLAN within that vlan for
priortization, for additional segmentation as well.


I could be wrong though.

-

Jeff


On 6/9/06 7:50 AM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Fri, 9 Jun 2006, John Scrivner wrote:
 
 Can you or someone explain what double VLAN is? I have never heard of such a
 thing. How can it be used to help us?
 
 Not having read the entire thread, I'm assuming the term double
 VLAN refers to the ability to create a VLAN (or many) that each
 have VLANs inside them.  There are some places where this may be
 needed, but it can get to be an extremely complex network.


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Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front

2006-06-12 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Yup.




On 6/9/06 8:33 AM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jeffrey Thomas = Jeff Booher
 
 Jeffrey Thomas Booher actually
 
 -Charles
 
 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of JohnnyO
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:58 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
 
 
 Jeffrey Thomas - DOH ! - For some reason I had Jeff Booher on the brain and
 made mistake of making this post ! ! ! ! Please - pretty please forgive me
 for mixing you up ?
 
 /me holds head down and kicks rocks
 
 JohnnyO
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of JohnnyO
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:32 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
 
 
 Jeff - how many other platforms have you tooted the horn on that have never
 produced the results you claimed ? Not trying to rain on your parade here,
 but every platform you've tooted ranting raves about, has never lived up to
 it's hype from what I have seen.
 
 JohnnyO
 
 Wanting to be a believer
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:22 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front
 
 
 Simple. Since the CPE self provisions and aligns itself, the customer only
 need to know they need to install the device on their rooftop. And they also
 have indoor devices that work to maybe a KM or so from the tower but those
 Are as simple as a customer plugs in the ethernet plug and power and puts
 The CPE near a window. I honestly doubt anyone will use them, but they Are
 available. 
 
 So really zero truck roll? Not really as most customers will want the wisp
 to install it- but the major benefit is that the CPE's will not require
 techs to carry a pc or anything other than cabling and tools to set up the
 roof mount.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 
 On 6/8/06 8:04 PM, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Color me jaded, but how can you get a zero truck roll CPE in 5.4-5.9
 unlicensed?
 
 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 Guys,
 
 Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8.
 Unlike most other vendors, they are going to market with their
 802.16-2004 5.4-5.9 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC
 certification for their 802.16-2004
 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as
 the
 3 plus
 years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone
 can
 deploy
 in will be available.
 
 
 So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as
 of yet, ( and they havent even decided when they will be certifying
 vendors ) this product will be either complaint as is or will require
 a minor software upgrade
 for
 Wimax
 forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the
 802.16-2004 spec as planned.
 
 some notes on the product:
 
 initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side
 of things,
  
 
 600.00 / cpe

 
 
 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM
 
 full service flow integration for QOS
 
 can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel
 
 zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment )
 
 full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration
 authentication provisioning security )
 
 
 color me excited :)
 
 -
 
 Jeff
  
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] 24 dbi Atlas Fox

2006-06-08 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Mti's are a lot better antenna but a bit more pricey.

-

Jeff



On 6/7/06 9:16 PM, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Those MTI's are nice looking product. Nice price too. Have you checked
 out the pac wireless 5 gig rootennas yet?
 
 They are working great for me and they are cheap.
 
 George
 
 Tom DeReggi wrote:
 I was thinking
 Although legal issues involved...  (so not indorsing or recommending
 this idea)
  
 An Atlas Fox, mounted inside a MTI 24 dbi Dual Pol antenna w/ stock
 radio case back, and a custom mod to bypass internal antenna and jumper
 to the ext antenna connectors, would be less expensive than both a base
 Fox5800 unit and the 5830SU, and give us 16 more additional DB, which
 would make it a fantastic combination for a high end business or
 residential CPE able to survive the noise, upgradable to OFDM, and easy
 to mount.  But most importantly, it would only be one radio CPE type to
 stock to cover all needs, allowing it to be easier to make quantity orders.
  
 In qty 25+, MTI w/ case $245 (maybe a little more with import charges)
 Atlas Fox $149.
 Pigtail Jumpers: $15
  
 Total: $409.
  
 It would take more time to hack(build), but it would save time by not
 having to muck with the dish.
  
 So why is Trango not doing this yet?
  
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
  
 


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Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

2006-06-08 Thread jeffrey thomas
Airmatrix can do that.

www.defactowireless.com


On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 13:17:30 -0400, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 I am looking for a device with the following requirements:
 
 * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band
 * Can support VLANs
 * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port
 * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required)
 * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different VLAN 
 than the Ethernet port
 * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure
 
 Any ideas?
 
 -Matt
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

2006-06-08 Thread jeffrey thomas
Fyi everyone, wrap boards have been discontinued


On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 12:45:00 -0500, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 If you order it all from wisp-router they will assemble it for your so 
 you would get a die-cast case with the RB mounted the radios and 
 pigtails installed.  All you would need to do is set up the software end 
 of things, which could be done with a script once you have the initial 
 setup done.  One thing to note, I have not ordered 5Ghz pigtails from 
 wisp-router in quite sometime, but the last time I did order them, their 
 quality was questionable.
 
 I would bet if you went the WRAP/StarOS route wisp-router would do the 
 same.  No idea on other vendors or the WAR boards as I have never 
 ordered them.
 
 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless
 
 Matt Liotta wrote:
 
  I am looking for a device I can buy that does all of this out of the 
  box. I don't want to build my own since I need 30-40 of them in the 
  next 30 days.
 
  -Matt
 
  Sam Tetherow wrote:
 
  Mikrotik on a routerboard 532 should do the trick although I haven't 
  messed with the VLAN stuff.
  I am not a StarOS user, but I would bet that a StarOS setup on either 
  a WRAP or WAR board would work
  as well.
 
 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless
 
  Matt Liotta wrote:
 
  I am looking for a device with the following requirements:
 
  * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band
  * Can support VLANs
  * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port
  * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required)
  * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different 
  VLAN than the Ethernet port
  * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure
 
  Any ideas?
 
  -Matt
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

2006-06-08 Thread jeffrey thomas
Matt,

The airmatrix flex can do what you require, i think list on them is
around 350 or so but that price is coming down to around 250.00. An
additional card shouldnt be too much more per side.

-

Jeff

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 15:19:35 -0400, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 I don't think i am unrealistic. We built a platform from off-the-shelf 
 parts that meets our requirements for under $500. How well that will 
 work outside of our lab coupled with the time it took to build tells us 
 we want nothing to do with building our own. I am aware of what mesh 
 products companies like Tropos offer since we deploy Tropos networks 
 ourselves. However, they don't meet our requirements in some cases and 
 in other cases are overkill for what we need.
 
 Ultimately, I willing to pay more than $600 for the unit if it makes 
 sense. I just threw out what I was looking to pay.
 
 -Matt
 
 Charles Wu wrote:
 
 Hi Matt,
 
 To throw in a dose of realism -- even if you roll your own Mikrotik solution
 - it will most likely cost you more than the $300-600 / unit budget that you
 have (and you get ZERO support =)
 
 Example
 
 RB532A: $185
 SR5: $105
 SR2: $105
 
 All that is is a board and 2 radio cards -- then you still need to add in
 pigtails / poe / enclosures / stand-offs / antennas / PITA factor / etc
 
 Then you got to figure out how to make it work =)
 
 For a complete, supported w/ manuals/etc, FCC CERTIFIED system -- you will
 probably be in the $1k+ / unit ballpark (or $3k+ if you go Strix, Tropos,
 Firetide, Skypilot, etc)
 
 -Charles
 
 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:28 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
 
 
 I would expect the devices to cost somewhere between $300 and $600 each. 
 As far as support goes, I would expect it to be similar to other low 
 cost radio vendors like Trango, etc.
 
 -Matt
 
 Sam Tetherow wrote:
 
   
 
 What are you willing to pay and what are your support requirements?
 
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
 
 Matt Liotta wrote:
 
 
 
 I understand you are suggesting I wouldn't have to psychically build
 the devices, but that isn't what I am worried about. I want an 
 off-the-shelf product that is supported by a vendor. That includes it 
 being pre-built, software installed, and support available.
 
 -Matt
 
 Sam Tetherow wrote:
 
   
 
 If you order it all from wisp-router they will assemble it for your
 so you would get a die-cast case with the RB mounted the radios and 
 pigtails installed.  All you would need to do is set up the software 
 end of things, which could be done with a script once you have the 
 initial setup done.  One thing to note, I have not ordered 5Ghz 
 pigtails from wisp-router in quite sometime, but the last time I did 
 order them, their quality was questionable.
 
 I would bet if you went the WRAP/StarOS route wisp-router would do
 the same.  No idea on other vendors or the WAR boards as I have 
 never ordered them.
 
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
 
 Matt Liotta wrote:
 
 
 
 I am looking for a device I can buy that does all of this out of
 the box. I don't want to build my own since I need 30-40 of them in 
 the next 30 days.
 
 -Matt
 
 Sam Tetherow wrote:
 
   
 
 Mikrotik on a routerboard 532 should do the trick although I
 haven't messed with the VLAN stuff.
 I am not a StarOS user, but I would bet that a StarOS setup on 
 either a WRAP or WAR board would work
 as well.
 
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
 
 Matt Liotta wrote:
 
 
 
 I am looking for a device with the following requirements:
 
 * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band
 * Can support VLANs
 * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port
 * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required)
 * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different
 VLAN than the Ethernet port
 * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure
 
 Any ideas?
 
 -Matt
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

2006-06-08 Thread jeffrey thomas
my understanding is that the whole board is being disconinued. We were
notified of this ( as in pcengines is no longer taking orders ) about 2
weeks ago. I would need to clarify this with david peterson but I am
pretty sure that is the case.

-
Jeff

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:46:09 -0400, KyWiFi LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Discontinued by Wisp-Router.com or all vendors? There's no
 mention of this on http://www.pcengines.ch Where did you hear
 this? I recall hearing that the chipset used on the current WRAP
 platform has been discontinued but to my knowledge, there is a
 replacement chipset available which will be used on future batches
 of WRAP boards.
 
 
 Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
 KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
 Your Hometown Broadband Provider
 http://www.KyWiFi.com
 Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
 ===
 $39.99 DSL High Speed Internet
 $14.99 Home Phone Service
 - No Phone Line Required for DSL
 - FREE Activation  Equipment
 - Affordable Upfront Pricing
 - Locally Owned  Operated
 - We Also Service Most Rural Areas
 ===
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA General List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:55 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
 
 
 Fyi everyone, wrap boards have been discontinued
 
 
 On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 12:45:00 -0500, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 said:
  If you order it all from wisp-router they will assemble it for your so 
  you would get a die-cast case with the RB mounted the radios and 
  pigtails installed.  All you would need to do is set up the software end 
  of things, which could be done with a script once you have the initial 
  setup done.  One thing to note, I have not ordered 5Ghz pigtails from 
  wisp-router in quite sometime, but the last time I did order them, their 
  quality was questionable.
  
  I would bet if you went the WRAP/StarOS route wisp-router would do the 
  same.  No idea on other vendors or the WAR boards as I have never 
  ordered them.
  
  Sam Tetherow
  Sandhills Wireless
  
  Matt Liotta wrote:
  
   I am looking for a device I can buy that does all of this out of the 
   box. I don't want to build my own since I need 30-40 of them in the 
   next 30 days.
  
   -Matt
  
   Sam Tetherow wrote:
  
   Mikrotik on a routerboard 532 should do the trick although I haven't 
   messed with the VLAN stuff.
   I am not a StarOS user, but I would bet that a StarOS setup on either 
   a WRAP or WAR board would work
   as well.
  
  Sam Tetherow
  Sandhills Wireless
  
   Matt Liotta wrote:
  
   I am looking for a device with the following requirements:
  
   * Can backhaul at 11Mbps operating in the 5.2Ghz band
   * Can support VLANs
   * Can assign a VLAN to one Ethernet port
   * Powered by PoE (the standard is not required)
   * Can act as a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi access point assigned to a different 
   VLAN than the Ethernet port
   * Everything in a single outdoor enclosure
  
   Any ideas?
  
   -Matt
  
  
  
  
  
  
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[WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front

2006-06-08 Thread jeffrey thomas
Guys,

Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8.
Unlike
most other vendors, they are going to market with their 802.16-2004
5.4-5.9
solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for
their 802.16-2004
product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as the
3 plus
years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone can
deploy
in will be available.


So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as of
yet, ( and 
they havent even decided when they will be certifying vendors ) this
product will
be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade for
Wimax 
forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the
802.16-2004 
spec as planned. 

some notes on the product:

initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side of
things,
600.00 / cpe

35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM

full service flow integration for QOS

can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel

zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment ) 

full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration
authentication provisioning security ) 


color me excited :)

-

Jeff
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Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

2006-06-08 Thread jeffrey thomas
according to pascal in an email today, he has one more shipment coming
of 233mhz boards
in july then thats it folks...

-

Jeff

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 17:54:48 -0700, Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 Not all WRAP boards are discontinued.
 
 233 Mhz versions will continue production for some time yet.
 
 
 North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
 personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
 sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
 Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
 
 -
 - Original Message - 
 From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA General List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
 
 
  Fyi everyone, wrap boards have been discontinued
 
 
 
 -- 
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Re: [WISPA] Good news on the wimax unlicensed front

2006-06-08 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Simple. Since the CPE self provisions and aligns itself, the customer only
need to know they need to install the device on their rooftop. And they also
have indoor devices that work to maybe a KM or so from the tower but those
Are as simple as a customer plugs in the ethernet plug and power and puts
The CPE near a window. I honestly doubt anyone will use them, but they
Are available. 

So really zero truck roll? Not really as most customers will want the wisp
to install it- but the major benefit is that the CPE's will not require
techs to carry a pc or anything other than cabling and tools to set up the
roof mount.

-

Jeff



On 6/8/06 8:04 PM, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Color me jaded, but how can you get a zero truck roll CPE in 5.4-5.9
 unlicensed?
 
 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 Guys,
 
 Just got out of training for the new AIRSPAN wimax product for 5.8.
 Unlike
 most other vendors, they are going to market with their 802.16-2004
 5.4-5.9
 solution and are shipping in JULY, and expect FCC certification for
 their 802.16-2004
 product for 4.9 Ghz as well in July! I am very excited about this as the
 3 plus
 years of waiting for a viable, wimax product in a band that everyone can
 deploy
 in will be available.
 
 
 So, while the equipment has not been ratified by the Wimax forum as of
 yet, ( and 
 they havent even decided when they will be certifying vendors ) this
 product will
 be either complaint as is or will require a minor software upgrade for
 Wimax 
 forum certified compatiability, assuming that the forum go with the
 802.16-2004 
 spec as planned.
 
 some notes on the product:
 
 initial pricing expected to be very reasonably priced on the AP side of
 things,
  
 
 600.00 / cpe

 
 
 35 mb / sector real world throughput @ 64 QAM
 
 full service flow integration for QOS
 
 can be used in either 5 mhz channel size or 10 mhz channel
 
 zero truck roll CPE ( users can easily install the equipment )
 
 full blown FCAPS compliant NMS ( Fault monitoring configuration
 authentication provisioning security )
 
 
 color me excited :)
 
 -
 
 Jeff
  
 


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Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-30 Thread jeffrey thomas
IN 2.4Ghz you have the 3-1 rule and a very high noisefloor, practically
everywhere.


On Thu, 25 May 2006 12:23:22 -0400, Tom DeReggi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
  3.5Ghz does,
 
 I find that hard to believe.  2.4Ghz couldn't do it, which is why we rely
 on 
 900Mhz.
 
 What makes 3.5Ghz appropriate for the task?
 
 With 3650 from what I understood, is only supposed to be allowed for PtP
 or 
 mobile service only (not indoor) based on the high power levels allowed.
 
 Not sure whats at the other 3.5G ranges in US.
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: jeffrey thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 
  The benchmark is the ability to provide NLOS, portable or fixed service
  to at least a 2 mile radius per cell, indoors.
 
  5.8 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors
 
  5.4 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors
 
  4.9 doesnt really give true NLOS to that disance indoors
 
  3.5Ghz does, to portable devices similar to the equipment used by
  clearwire. Airspan for example claims their wimax solution works indoors
  to about 3 miles out, which is pretty good IMHO.
 
  When you can deliver a zero truck roll model with 90% or above
  availablity, is when operators by the truckload will deploy equipment.
  At that point, you will see deployments in the thousands, like the ones
  in mexico of 750,000 homes serviced.
 
  -
 
  Jeff
 
 
 
  On Thu, 25 May 2006 02:20:23 -0400, Tom DeReggi
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
  How do you figure?
  You don't think 5.4 is going to solve part of that?
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 
   Frankly,
  
   The FCC should really hurry up and finish the rules to allow the 
   industry
   to
   really take off. The common view with most manufacturers I have found 
   is
   that until there is 3.5ghz or near spectrum available, there will be 
   small
   and limited deployments of wisp size and not many large scale 
   deployments
   outside of 2.5ghz or 700 mhz operators.
  
   -
  
   Jeff
  
  
  
  
  
   On 5/24/06 6:14 AM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   All the same time, the industry doesn't bother to fill out their Form
   477s
   also
  
   The sad thing is is that there are long term consequences towards
   flaunting
   the rules -- namely the fact that you are just reinforcing the ILEC
   argument that unlicensed spectrum just creates a bunch of cowboys 
   that
   can't be taken seriously
  
   Heck, even Marlon knows better than to wear his skin-tight pink 
   flamingo
   suit when he represents the industry in DC
  
   -Charles
  
   ---
   CWLab
   Technology Architects
   http://www.cwlab.com
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   On
   Behalf Of jeffrey thomas
   Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:37 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
  
  
   In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier
   deployment
   which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is a test. I know 
   of
   one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets, for over 2000 
   CPE.
  
  
  
  
   -
  
   Jeff
  
   On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, Gino A. Villarini
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   said:
   Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to 
   test
   a single base station?
  
   Gino A. Villarini
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
   tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   On Behalf Of Jack Unger
   Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
  
   Gino,
  
   Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial service?
  
   jack
  
  
   Gino A. Villarini wrote:
  
   Towerstream anyone ?
  
   Gino A. Villarini
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
   tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   On Behalf Of Jack Unger
   Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
  
   Jeffrey,
  
   I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of
   anyone
   who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed
   experimental system and using it for a commercial, 
   revenue-generating
   purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
  
   1. Someone with no business sense
   2. Someone with no appreciation

Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-24 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Frankly, 

The FCC should really hurry up and finish the rules to allow the industry to
really take off. The common view with most manufacturers I have found is
that until there is 3.5ghz or near spectrum available, there will be small
and limited deployments of wisp size and not many large scale deployments
outside of 2.5ghz or 700 mhz operators.

-

Jeff





On 5/24/06 6:14 AM, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 All the same time, the industry doesn't bother to fill out their Form 477s
 also
 
 The sad thing is is that there are long term consequences towards flaunting
 the rules -- namely the fact that you are just reinforcing the ILEC
 argument that unlicensed spectrum just creates a bunch of cowboys that
 can't be taken seriously
 
 Heck, even Marlon knows better than to wear his skin-tight pink flamingo
 suit when he represents the industry in DC
 
 -Charles
 
 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of jeffrey thomas
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:37 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 
 In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier deployment
 which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is a test. I know of
 one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets, for over 2000 CPE.
 
 
 
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 said:
 Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to test
 a single base station?
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Gino,
 
 Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial service?
 
 jack
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini wrote:
 
 Towerstream anyone ?
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Jeffrey,
 
 I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of
 anyone
 who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed
 experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating
 purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
 
 1. Someone with no business sense
 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the
 enforcement
 powers of the FCC
 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy
 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term
 WISP service.
jack
 
 
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 
 Patrick,
 
 It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited
 deployments as a test but still charged for the access service,
 banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for
 unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down on
 them is very low.
 
 Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be
 evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources
 that is available today will be compliant. *shrug*
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 
 
 Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any
 commercial services using 3650MHz.
 
 - Patrick
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be
 breaking the law w/ a 3650 deployment
 
 
 ---
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com;
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
 Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band -
 Clarifications
 
 
 Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising
 turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding
 interference in congested
 license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted rules
 back
 in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in
 the
 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the
 deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment
 manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details.
 
 As
 things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under
 Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
 
 Infrastructure Investment  Experimentation under Part 5 needs to
 be done strictly from a curiosity

Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-24 Thread Jeffrey Thomas


Comments inline.



 Even given the 5% of WISP operators who intentionally run too much
 power, I don't feel their lawlessness is as serious as someone who
 receives a experimental license under false pretenses and then
 unlawfully profits from their lawbreaking.

Considering the band with be a part-15 band, I don't see why its
Nearly as a big deal as someone taking a band that would have been
Auctioned off for thousands upon thousands of dollars.

 
 By the way, which company has twenty-eight 3.6 GHz special temporary
 authorizations (STAs)in 14 markets and is allegedly selling commercial
 service to 2000 subscribers?

I can't say due to non disclosure agreements. The funny thing about them
Is they got the STA's and have yet to really use them, so all the money
They spent on lawyers obtaining the STA's is going to waste anyways.


 
 jack
 
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 Jack,
 
 The same would probably apply to the hundreds of WISP's who operate
 systems that break the part-15 rules regarding power output. While
 it is illegal, I currently am unaware of any operators who have recieved
 fines or anything of the sort for such behavior but it happens. Do I
 encourage this? no, but as Steve Stroh once told me, The FCC generally
 turns a blind eye until someone complains.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 On Tue, 23 May 2006 15:56:03 -0700, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 said:
 
 Jeffrey,
 
 I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone
 who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed
 experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating
 purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
 
 1. Someone with no business sense
 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement
 powers of the FCC
 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy
 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term
 WISP service.
   jack
 
 
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
 
 Patrick,
 
 It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments
 as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the
 fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and
 that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low.
 
 Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be
 evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that
 is available today will be compliant. *shrug*
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 
 
 Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any
 commercial services using 3650MHz.
 
 - Patrick
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the
 law w/ a 3650 deployment
 
 
 ---
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
 Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band -
 Clarifications
 
 
 Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising
 turn-key
 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in
 congested
 license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted rules
 back
 in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in
 the
 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the
 deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment
 manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details.
 As
 things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under
 Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
 
 Infrastructure Investment  Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done
 strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial
 network expansion.  Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or
 technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The
 rules
 provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services
 prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules.
 
 Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
 
 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
 
 Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to
 conduct the following type of operations:
 (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
 (b)   Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States
 Government, or for export purposes.
 (c)Communications essential to a research project.
 (d)   Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
 (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization
 in
 any other service.
 (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons
 engaged in the business of selling

Re: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License

2006-05-23 Thread jeffrey thomas
Actually, on the Ap Side Airspan is around 5000.00 and 400 or so for the
CPE.

-

Jeff

On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:43:29 -0500 (CDT), Butch Evans
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 On Tue, 23 May 2006, Jon Langeler wrote:
 
 If your looking for equipment manufacturers, you'll be looking at 
 companies like IPwireless, Flarion, etc... Typically $50-100K per 
 base station/sector deployment...
 
 WaveIP and Airspan both have gear in the 700MHz band.  WaveIP is 
 around $1500 for AP and $500-700 for CPE (I don't recall).  Airspan 
 is about $8k for the AP (if I recall correctly) and a little under 
 $500 per CPE.  Both of these would be a good choice.
 
 -- 
 Butch Evans
 Network Engineering and Security Consulting
 http://www.butchevans.com/
 Mikrotik Certified Consultant
 (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
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Re: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License

2006-05-23 Thread jeffrey thomas
www.airmatrix.com


On Tue, 23 May 2006 09:25:51 -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 So where is my danged wifi cpe that can keep a list of 36 ap's and is
 smart 
 enough to switch between them automatically?
 
 sheesh  I could have sold thousands of these over the 2 years since
 I've 
 asked for that product!
 
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:01 AM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License
 
 
  Most of these muni projects are basing the 700 Mhz on the public safety 
  band
  that is not yet available. High speed roaming is the application not
  broadband. I know the Wimax Forum is at least looking at the band for e
  which fits the mold. Every public safety entity I have talked with in the
  last 2 months does not want a proprietary approach. They want standards
  based gear. Brad
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Butch Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:43 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 mhz Public Safety State License
 
  On Tue, 23 May 2006, Jon Langeler wrote:
 
 If your looking for equipment manufacturers, you'll be looking at
 companies like IPwireless, Flarion, etc... Typically $50-100K per
 base station/sector deployment...
 
  WaveIP and Airspan both have gear in the 700MHz band.  WaveIP is
  around $1500 for AP and $500-700 for CPE (I don't recall).  Airspan
  is about $8k for the AP (if I recall correctly) and a little under
  $500 per CPE.  Both of these would be a good choice.
 
  -- 
  Butch Evans
  Network Engineering and Security Consulting
  http://www.butchevans.com/
  Mikrotik Certified Consultant
  (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
  -- 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
  
  
  This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
  PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer
  viruses.
  
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
  
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Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-23 Thread jeffrey thomas
sure.


On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:58:34 -0700, George Rogato
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 I understood that the 3650 was not to be used in commercial links. I'm 
 assuming money makes it commercial.
 I would like to deploy a couple links for non paying situations, cameras 
 for a city park. I'd also like to have the licenseand not be wasting 
 my limited unlicensed spectrum.
 
 Do you think this is a legit use for 3650?
 
 George
 
 
 Patrick Leary wrote:
  Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any
  commercial services using 3650MHz.
  
  - Patrick
  
  -Original Message-
  From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
  
  Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the
  law w/ a 3650 deployment
  
  
  ---
  To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
  Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
  Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - 
  Clarifications
  
  
  Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising turn-key
  3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in congested
  license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted rules back
  in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the
  3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the
  deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment
  manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details.  As
  things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under
  Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
  
  Infrastructure Investment  Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done
  strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial
  network expansion.  Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or
  technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The rules
  provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services
  prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules.
  
  Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
  
  47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
  
  Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to
  conduct the following type of operations:
  (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
  (b)   Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States
  Government, or for export purposes.
  (c)Communications essential to a research project.
  (d)   Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
  (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in
  any other service.
  (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons
  engaged in the business of selling radio equipment.
  (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory
  approval of such equipment.
  (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not
  related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory
  testing or calibration of equipment.
  (i)  Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or
  engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service.
  (j) Limited market studies.
  (k)   Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under
  paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon
  demonstration of need
  
  47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License
  
  (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will be
  issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing radio
  waves for scientific or technical operation data directly related to a use
  of radio not provided by existing rules; or for communications in connection
  with research projects when existing communications facilities are
  inadequate.
  
  47CFR5.63: Supplementary Statements
  
  (a)Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental Radio Service
  must enclose with the application a narrative statement describing in detail
  the program of research and experimentation proposed, the specific
  objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the program of experimentation
  has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development, extension, or
  expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not already
  investigated.
  
  For further information regarding experimental licensing, the FCC has a nice
  online FAQ that gives a step-by-step how-to on experimental licensing:
  http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html
  
  
  ---
  CWLab
  Technology Architects
  http://www.cwlab.com 
  
  
 
 
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 

RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-23 Thread jeffrey thomas
Patrick,

It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments
as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the
fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and
that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. 

Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be
evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that
is available today will be compliant. *shrug*

-

Jeff

On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any
 commercial services using 3650MHz.
 
 - Patrick
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the
 law w/ a 3650 deployment
 
 
 ---
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
 Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - 
 Clarifications
 
 
 Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising
 turn-key
 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in
 congested
 license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted rules
 back
 in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in
 the
 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the
 deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment
 manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. 
 As
 things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under
 Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
 
 Infrastructure Investment  Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done
 strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial
 network expansion.  Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or
 technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The
 rules
 provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services
 prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules.
 
 Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
 
 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
 
 Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to
 conduct the following type of operations:
 (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
 (b)   Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States
 Government, or for export purposes.
 (c)Communications essential to a research project.
 (d)   Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
 (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization
 in
 any other service.
 (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons
 engaged in the business of selling radio equipment.
 (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory
 approval of such equipment.
 (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not
 related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory
 testing or calibration of equipment.
 (i)  Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or
 engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service.
 (j) Limited market studies.
 (k)   Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under
 paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon
 demonstration of need
 
 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License
 
 (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will
 be
 issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing
 radio
 waves for scientific or technical operation data directly related to a
 use
 of radio not provided by existing rules; or for communications in
 connection
 with research projects when existing communications facilities are
 inadequate.
 
 47CFR5.63: Supplementary Statements
 
 (a)Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental Radio
 Service
 must enclose with the application a narrative statement describing in
 detail
 the program of research and experimentation proposed, the specific
 objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the program of
 experimentation
 has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development, extension,
 or
 expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not already
 investigated.
 
 For further information regarding experimental licensing, the FCC has a
 nice
 online FAQ that gives a step-by-step how-to on experimental licensing:
 http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html
 
 
 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com 
 
 
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 

Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-23 Thread jeffrey thomas
Jack,

The same would probably apply to the hundreds of WISP's who operate 
systems that break the part-15 rules regarding power output. While
it is illegal, I currently am unaware of any operators who have recieved
fines or anything of the sort for such behavior but it happens. Do I 
encourage this? no, but as Steve Stroh once told me, The FCC generally
turns a blind eye until someone complains.

-

Jeff

On Tue, 23 May 2006 15:56:03 -0700, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 Jeffrey,
 
 I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone 
 who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed 
 experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating 
 purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
 
 1. Someone with no business sense
 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement 
 powers of the FCC
 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy
 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term 
 WISP service.
jack
 
 
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
  Patrick,
  
  It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments
  as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the
  fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and
  that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. 
  
  Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be
  evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that
  is available today will be compliant. *shrug*
  
  -
  
  Jeff
  
  On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
  
 Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any
 commercial services using 3650MHz.
 
 - Patrick
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the
 law w/ a 3650 deployment
 
 
 ---
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
 Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - 
 Clarifications
 
 
 Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising
 turn-key
 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in
 congested
 license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted rules
 back
 in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in
 the
 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the
 deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment
 manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. 
 As
 things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under
 Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
 
 Infrastructure Investment  Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done
 strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial
 network expansion.  Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or
 technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The
 rules
 provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services
 prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules.
 
 Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
 
 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
 
 Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to
 conduct the following type of operations:
 (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
 (b)   Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States
 Government, or for export purposes.
 (c)Communications essential to a research project.
 (d)   Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
 (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization
 in
 any other service.
 (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons
 engaged in the business of selling radio equipment.
 (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory
 approval of such equipment.
 (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not
 related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory
 testing or calibration of equipment.
 (i)  Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or
 engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service.
 (j) Limited market studies.
 (k)   Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under
 paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon
 demonstration of need
 
 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License
 
 (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will
 be
 issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing
 radio
 waves for scientific or technical operation

RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-23 Thread jeffrey thomas
Wow, I think I heard a bell ring somewhere.

-
Jeff

On Tue, 23 May 2006 20:58:32 -0400, Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Towerstream anyone ?
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Jeffrey,
 
 I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone 
 who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed 
 experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating 
 purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
 
 1. Someone with no business sense
 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement 
 powers of the FCC
 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy
 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term 
 WISP service.
jack
 
 
 
 jeffrey thomas wrote:
 
  Patrick,
  
  It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments
  as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the
  fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and
  that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. 
  
  Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be
  evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that
  is available today will be compliant. *shrug*
  
  -
  
  Jeff
  
  On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
  
 Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any
 commercial services using 3650MHz.
 
 - Patrick
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the
 law w/ a 3650 deployment
 
 
 ---
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
 Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - 
 Clarifications
 
 
 Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising
 turn-key
 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in
 congested
 license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted rules
 back
 in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in
 the
 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the
 deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment
 manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. 
 As
 things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under
 Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
 
 Infrastructure Investment  Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done
 strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial
 network expansion.  Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or
 technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The
 rules
 provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services
 prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules.
 
 Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
 
 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
 
 Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to
 conduct the following type of operations:
 (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
 (b)   Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States
 Government, or for export purposes.
 (c)Communications essential to a research project.
 (d)   Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
 (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization
 in
 any other service.
 (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons
 engaged in the business of selling radio equipment.
 (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory
 approval of such equipment.
 (h)Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not
 related to an existing or proposed service, including field or factory
 testing or calibration of equipment.
 (i)  Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or
 engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service.
 (j) Limited market studies.
 (k)   Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under
 paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered upon
 demonstration of need
 
 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License
 
 (a)Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio Service will
 be
 issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation utilizing
 radio
 waves for scientific or technical operation data

RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

2006-05-23 Thread jeffrey thomas
In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier
deployment which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is a
test. I know of one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets,
for over 2000 CPE.




-

Jeff

On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to test a
 single base station?  
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Gino,
 
 Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial service?
 
 jack
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini wrote:
 
  Towerstream anyone ?
  
  Gino A. Villarini
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Jack Unger
  Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
  
  Jeffrey,
  
  I have to question the judgement ability (or the lack of it) of anyone 
  who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed 
  experimental system and using it for a commercial, revenue-generating 
  purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
  
  1. Someone with no business sense
  2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the enforcement 
  powers of the FCC
  3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy
  4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable, long-term 
  WISP service.
 jack
  
  
  
  jeffrey thomas wrote:
  
  
 Patrick,
 
 It doesnt change the fact that many have launched limited deployments
 as a test but still charged for the access service, banking on the
 fact that the FCC has set the band aside for unlicensed anyways, and
 that the chance of the FCC cracking down on them is very low. 
 
 Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be
 evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources that
 is available today will be compliant. *shrug*
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, Patrick Leary
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 
 
 Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch any
 commercial services using 3650MHz.
 
 - Patrick
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
 
 Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be breaking the
 law w/ a 3650 deployment
 
 
 ---
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
 Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz Band - 
 Clarifications
 
 
 Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements promising
 turn-key
 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding interference in
 congested
 license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted rules
 back
 in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in
 the
 3.65 GHz band, a minor contention-based requirement has delayed the
 deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as equipment
 manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the details. 
 As
 things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls under
 Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
 
 Infrastructure Investment  Experimentation under Part 5 needs to be done
 strictly from a curiosity perspective rather than one of commercial
 network expansion.  Part 5 permits experimentation in scientific or
 technical operations directly related to the use of radio waves. The
 rules
 provide the opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services
 prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules.
 
 Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
 
 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
 
 Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be permitted to
 conduct the following type of operations:
 (a)Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
 (b)   Experimentations under contractual agreement with the United States
 Government, or for export purposes.
 (c)Communications essential to a research project.
 (d)   Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
 (e)Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization
 in
 any other service.
 (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons
 engaged in the business of selling radio equipment.
 (g)Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory
 approval of such equipment.
 (h)Development of radio

Re: [WISPA] 4.9 space

2006-05-10 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
That wouldn't be correct- because the 2.4 access and 4.9 distribution layers
are 2 different things. So essentially the distribution layer would only be
legal for the muni to connect to ( the 4.9 layer )


-

Jeff



On 5/10/06 12:30 AM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Bump...
 
 On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Butch Evans wrote:
 
 On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
 
 However, no public traffic can run over the network.
 
 You can use a public network to feed a 4.9 system that you manage for the
 license holder.  You can NOT use 4.9 to transport public traffic though.
 
 Don't take this like I don't believe what you are saying...This is just a
 question.
 
 Trango is offering a new mesh solution that they call HD Mesh.
 From what I understand, it is targeted for muni-wireless deployment.
 It uses 2.4GHz AP and 4.9GHz backhaul.  If what you say is correct, is this
 system then limited to be used ONLY by the municipality and no other end
 users 
 may connect to it?
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Wimax Hardware for sale?

2006-05-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Aperto packetwave is your best bet then, contact me off list for details.

-

Jeff



On 5/5/06 8:10 AM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Patrick Leary wrote:
 
 But which WiMAX are you talking about? There are lots of versions and the
 one version that no one has...and no one should be clamoring for just
 yet...is unlicensed WiMAX.
 
  
 
 I am certainly looking for WiMAX features such as spectral efficiency in
 5 Ghz unlicensed gear right now. I don't really care about the standard.
 
 -Matt


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Re: [WISPA] What's next for the forward looking WISP?

2006-05-02 Thread jeffrey thomas
HEY NOW,
 out here in eastern washington we dont need none of that high falootin
 facts to back up our research. 
as the great steven cobert would say, we just know if something is
right, based on our gut feelings.

;)

Jeff


On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:29:08 -0600, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Marlon,
 
 We started offering wireless in 1997. By your 1999 days, we had hundreds 
 of customers installed and running with high speed service. It's 
 possible your stats are a little skewed.
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 
 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
 
  http://www.isp-planet.com/fixed_wireless/business/2006/lines.html
 
  Let the argument begin!  grin
 
  Marlon
  (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
  (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
  42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
  64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
  www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
  www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo BH

2006-04-26 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Title: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo BH



The biggest issue I have heard or seen with tranzeo BHs is if you are running a flat network ( ie your pops are not routed @ the edge ) they have a lot of trouble passing a large bridge table.

-

Jeff



On 4/26/06 12:21 PM, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Please reply onlist as I would be interested also.
 
Jory Privett
WCCS
 
- Original Message - 

From: chris cooper mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

To: 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org 

Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:35 PM

Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo BH





Has anyone had any experience = or  with the Tranzeo 5a 32 or the 5amp 32? The claims are 25 and 40 miles respectively. Im wondering about reliability and performance at those distances. Hit me off list if you can advise.
 


Thanks,
 
Chris
 

 





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[WISPA] Leasing IP classes?

2006-04-25 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Hey folks,

I was wondering if anyone knew of companies that lease class C's to small
ISP's looking for the ablity to announce the leased IP classes as their own
As to avoid being locked in to a specific provider. Please let me know
If you know of anyone.

Best,

Jeff Booher


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Re: [WISPA] Leasing IP classes?

2006-04-25 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Arin isnt an option I don't think because these guys arent multi-homed yet.

-

Jeff



On 4/25/06 9:35 AM, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Tue, April 25, 2006 11:26 am, Jeffrey Thomas wrote:
 
 I was wondering if anyone knew of companies that lease class C's to small
 ISP's looking for the ablity to announce the leased IP classes as their
 own
 As to avoid being locked in to a specific provider. Please let me know
 If you know of anyone.
 
 I can't think of anyone that does that, mostly because it'd be a pain in
 the ass to get those IPs routed properly. There are just too many BGP
 speakers out there that don't properly handle un-aggregated BGP
 announcements, and do other silly things.
 
 Your best bet, if you're big enough, is to get a direct allocation from
 ARIN (assuming you're in the United States or Canadia). If you're
 multihomed, like you probably should be :D you can get allocations as long
 as a /22 (four class Cs). If not, I think the minimum allocation is a /20
 (sixteen class Cs).
 
 David Smith
 MVN.net


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Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Then there are companies like airmatrix that charge less than 1k per node.
The key with mesh is density, and many mesh startup's fail because they
Underbuild their networks.

-

Jeff



On 4/24/06 7:53 AM, John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't know what equipment they are using, but Cisco AP1500's (mesh) are
 abnout $3700 each and Cisco recommends 18-20 per square mile. Thats $74,000
 for the boxes plus antennas, mounts, POE and install.
 
 John
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM
 To: ''WISPA General List''
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
 
 $173K per mile build out cost?  Somebody just bought a new boat..
 
 c
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of George
 Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
 
 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups
 
 I am not a fan of muni wireless.
 
 George
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Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Matt, hit me offlist and I will be glad to send you all that. We have used
AM for deployments on lightpoles and I know there are configurations
available to power more than a single unit.

-

Jeff



On 4/24/06 1:42 PM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Similar is not the same. I couldn't find detailed specifications online.
 However, I do see that the unit has lower transmit power, it doesn't
 seem to be capable of being powered by AC, it doesn't seem capable of
 powering other devices such as a Canopy or Trango SM, and while there is
 a picture of some separate photo-cell power there is no specifications
 for that either. For example, many photo-cell taps are limited to 240v,
 but many street lights are 277v/480v.
 
 -Matt
 
 Jeffrey Thomas wrote:
 
 Airmatrix offers very similar features for less than 1/3 the cost of tropos.
 
 They also ofer Pole mounted power, and actually have a much lower power
 consumption, in addition to having multiple configurations including dual
 Radio diversity 2.4, dual radio diversity 2.4/5.8, etc.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 
 On 4/24/06 10:27 AM, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
 
 A Tropos unit has a 1W transmitter, is capable of being powered via PoE
 or via AC delivered through standard outlets as well as a variety of
 photo-cell taps including high-voltage ones. When powered with AC, it is
 capable of providing PoE power out of its Ethernet ports supporting
 equipment from Motorola and Trango even though neither using standard
 PoE. It mounts like a dream, includes level bubbles for perfect
 orientation, and units can be slid into and out of place with only a
 single screw enabling nodes to be changed in less than 5 minutes. Quite
 simply, a Tropos unit is beautifully engineered.
 
 Where can I find the parts to make the same thing in a single package?
 
 -Matt
 
 chris cooper wrote:
 

 
 Why not just buy the cards, boards, antennas and make a few yourself?
 
 c
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
 Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:46 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
 
 Then there are companies like airmatrix that charge less than 1k per
 node.
 The key with mesh is density, and many mesh startup's fail because they
 Underbuild their networks.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 
 On 4/24/06 7:53 AM, John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
  
 
 I don't know what equipment they are using, but Cisco AP1500's (mesh)
   
 

 
 are
 
 
  
 
 abnout $3700 each and Cisco recommends 18-20 per square mile. Thats
   
 

 
 $74,000
 
 
  
 
 for the boxes plus antennas, mounts, POE and install.
 
 John
 
 
   
 

 
 -Original Message-
 From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM
 To: ''WISPA General List''
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
 
 $173K per mile build out cost?  Somebody just bought a new boat..
 
 c
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
  
 
 On
 
 
  
 
 Behalf Of George
 Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
 
 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups
 
 I am not a fan of muni wireless.
 
 George
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[WISPA] do you use tranzeo?

2006-04-18 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
I am trying to find out how many folks out there use low cost CPE  
like tranzeo. please hit me off list if you

do.

Best,

Jeff

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Re: [WISPA] Best system for a new WISP

2006-04-13 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

agreed, VL is far from carrier grade

On Apr 12, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Charles Wu wrote:


snip
Motorola designed Canopy specifically for the WISP market, not the
carrier market.

Alvarion designed VL specifically for the carrier market, not the WISP
market.
/snip

Ah, the mis-perceptions of the rugged metal enclosure =)

Steve, can you please explain why carriers would prefer a CSMA/CA  
over a

scheduled (WiMAX-like) MAC?

Thanks

-Charles

---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Steve Stroh
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best system for a new WISP






Thanks,

Steve

On Apr 11, 2006, at 18:55, Dylan Oliver wrote:


How is any product qualified as 'Carrier-Grade'? What is it about
Alvarion VL that makes the cut vs. Canopy? Lord knows Motorola
produces far more 'Carrier-Grade' equipment than Alvarion ever will -
so where did they go wrong with Canopy?

 Also, I've heard lately several complaints that Waverider has  
trouble

sustaining even 1 Mbps throughput ... what is your experience, John?

 Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC--


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Re: [WISPA] Best system for a new WISP

2006-04-13 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Steve,

What defines something as carrier grade should also be:

1. Scalablity
2. True QOS ( QOS performance in the upstream and downstream )


On Apr 12, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Steve Stroh wrote:



John:

Here's my working definition of carrier grade:

Designed for use by carriers
Suitable for use by carriers
Sufficiently reliable for use by carriers

There is MUCH that goes into a product designed for use by  
carriers. It's expensive and a tough market, so a lot of vendors  
don't try. Here are just a few features that are carrier grade  
requirements from my perspective:

* Designed for use in all conceivable weather elements
* Designed for long operational use with minimal attention (in the  
WISP market, one measure is that it doesn't reboot itself, or  
require regular reboots)

* Designed for easy and fast repair
* The vendor stocks ample replacement units deployed geographically  
for fast supply.
* Support expertise by the vendor is readily available (excellent,  
easy-to-access tech support). Note that such support is almost  
never free, and carriers don't expect it to be. When they need  
help, they need it NOW and need to get their systems back online  
fast. (Carriers often have mandated time-to-repair maximums by  
regulatory agencies.)
* Subtle features like strain relief on all connectors, meeting the  
telecom industry requirements for rack mounting, built-in  
protection for power line surges and lightning.

* Superb monitoring and remote control capabilities
* Offer continuous VERY-in-depth training programs at the factory  
so that carriers can get their personnel FULLY up to speed on a  
product. Again, this almost never free, and carriers don't expect  
it to be.
* Offer continuous product improvement, bug fixes, recalls when  
appropriate, and does so proactively when an issue is identified,  
and does so in a way to minimize downtime such as offering  
proactive replacement units.


Etc.

Regarding Alvarion versus WISPs... it's pretty simple. By  
offering more like carrier-grade products, Alvarion saw FAR more  
market demand by carriers, public safety, enterprise than they saw  
in the WISP market. They are willing to sell to WISPs, but few  
WISPs are willing to take the time to truly understand Alvarion's  
value proposition which involves FAR more than mere price of the  
product. You've finally come around to this view John, and you'll  
discover that you have a lot of company in that view - which isn't  
(widely) represented on this list or necessarily within WISPA.  
That's because operators who have spent the money for quality gear  
like Alvarion's generally don't have NEARLY as many issues with  
such gear that require group support... and such operators don't  
wish to associate their businesses with the we'll just hack up a  
Linksys AP and have cheap gear attitude that a lot of people in  
the telecom industry equate with WISPs.


Is Alvarion arrogant? Yes, at times, and certain individuals. But I  
think that's mostly a lot of pride and recognition that they were  
one of the pioneering companies in making it possible to offer  
carrier-grade services in license-exempt spectrum - something that  
the telecom industry KNEW could NOT be done. It's also the case  
that Alvarion offers the broadest product line in Broadband  
Wireless Internet Access - licensed and license-exempt, fixed and  
mobile, high-capacity and low-capacity, etc. Alvarion has very  
capable competitors in various segments, but I can't think of any  
company that competes head-to-head with Alvarion in all segments,  
even Airspan.



Thanks,

Steve

On Apr 11, 2006, at 20:51, John Scrivner wrote:

I decided to do some reading on the term carrier-grade and have  
found the following to be what is considered a definition in  
relation to our industry. One random source on the web refers to  
this as,  A term that implies a system that is designed to have  
increased availability and timeliness to meet the requirements of  
a modern communications network element. I saw this quantified on  
one site as being, a network device which has a sustained uptime  
of over 99.999%. This was as close to a quantifiable definition as  
I have found though it gives no length of time or other parameters  
to use for calculation of this percentage. According to Hughes  
Software Systems in regard to Carrier-grade they state that  
equipment can only be considered Carrier-grade after several  
years of real field use shows that it is highly available and  
reliable. In the end it is a very subjective term and one I will  
not use in the future unless I can quantify the classification.  
Basically there is no firm definition but I have heard of Alvarion  
referred to as Carrier-grade by others and mistakingly assumed  
it was a clearly defined characteristic. My apologies for this  
error in wording.


With that said I still think Alvarion is a far better platform  
than Canopy which is strictly my opinion and has no 

Re: [WISPA] 4.9GHz gear

2006-04-11 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Airspan has an 802.16a 4.9 product ( Not wimax, because there is no interoperability and no profile for interop in 4.9 for wimax )  that they just got certified with the FCC. Give me an email if you want some pricing.-JeffOn Apr 10, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Jason Hensley wrote:  Anyone have some pricing on this gear?  I have a possible deployment for it.  I've got Airaya pricing.  Only other one I can find is Alvarion.  Any other manufacturers out there?     And yes, I understand what this band is and who can use it :-)   Thanks!    -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- 
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Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Agreed- interop is a great thing steve, but the problem is that  
currently no wimax profile requires any level of interop beyond  
simple bridging, which most operators will find that they want to use  
the QOS features so they can sell services such as voip.
are these products i mentioned using the 802.16 intel chips? yes. To  
me thats what determines if something is Wimax grade or not.


-

Jeff

On Apr 5, 2006, at 9:02 AM, Matt Liotta wrote:

The entire point of WiMAX may be interoperability, but from a fixed  
wireless standpoint interoperability is meaningless. When and if  
mobile WiMAX becomes interesting interoperability will be  
important. Until then there is no need for it in a fixed wireless  
network, so the certification badge isn't desirable. What is  
desirable is the capabilities of the radios. We certainly want to  
see 802.16-based radios in 5.8Ghz.


-Matt

Steve Stroh wrote:



Jeff:

If a system hasn't been through the interoperability testing, it  
ISN'T WiMAX - at all. Absent the certification of  
interoperability, at best what the vendors will be shipping and  
selling prior to achieving certification is a proprietary product  
with perhaps some WiMAX features.


Vendors have been known to change their mind about guaranteeing  
upgrade to final specifications and likely a number of vendors  
will ship products and completely eschew the formalities of WiMAX  
interoperability certification. Nothing wrong with that unless  
they try to pull a fast one trying to associate such products with  
WiMAX, implying interoperability, where none is actually guaranteed.


There is not, and cannot be, 4.9 GHz WiMAX products because  
there is not, nor is there likely to be, a WiMAX Forum profile for  
4.9 GHz given that band is US only, and the US is projected to be  
a minor market for WiMAX gear. So those vendors that claim to be,  
or soon will be, shipping 4.9 GHz WiMAX gear are in fact  
shipping a PROPRIETARY system; absent WiMAX certification, there's  
no guarantee whatsoEVER of interoperability.


The entire POINT of WiMAX is interoperability!

The market is going to have to sort out the vendors who falsely  
claim WiMAX for their systems; apparently the WiMAX Forum has no  
intention of doing so.



Thanks,

Steve



On Apr 4, 2006, at 21:37, Jeffrey Thomas wrote:

That is correct, however those companies are expected to be  
shipping product ( and are taking pre orders )  that will comply  
with the testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get  
off their collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for example,  
already has wimax 4.9 product and is getting FCC certification.  
So in conclusion, yes on product, no on the interop profile or  
tests yet.


-

Jeff



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425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com



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Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas


On Apr 5, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Charles Wu wrote:


snip
That is correct, however those companies are expected to be shipping
product ( and are taking pre orders )  that will comply with the
testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get off their
collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for example, already has
wimax 4.9 product and is getting FCC certification. So in conclusion,
yes on product, no on the interop profile or tests yet.
/snip

Basically, a roadmap to WiMAX?



no, product with the 802.16 chipsets and SDR so that they can be easily
changed to fit whatever the wimaxforum decides is the profile.



So -- this leads one to ask -- how guaranteed is a roadmap to WiMAX?


the question should be- are they using 802.16 compliant technology?

not whether or not they got the cutsey wimax sticker. Seriously,  
right now the

wimax forum does not give a rats ass about the US market.



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Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Okay,

we could both agree that a simple bridge mode system with no level of  
QOS,
no ability to segment traffic flows between CBR/CIR/BE, would be  
pretty pointless
right? then it would be simple best effort only services you could  
sell on a given
link or base station. So while company A may be selling an 802.16  
product without
service flow segmentation its only a dumb bridge network, which you  
might as well

go with a cheaper 802.11 based product then if the QoS is of no concern.

-

Jeff

On Apr 5, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Charles Wu wrote:


Hi Jeff,

Out of curiosity, since QoS  base WiMAX certification currently are
mutually exclusive, how does having QoS allow one manufacturer to have
product that's more WiMAX than another (not to say that QoS makes a
product better, but that's a whole different argument)

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?


George,

I am sure there will be others, but likely the first will be Airspan
( May is Beta ) and Aperto ( shipping
in June ). Redline likely will have product as well, but based on the
fact that both Aperto and Airspan
have considerable experience with QOS PTMP, I would think they will
have the only great product
out there. As well, on the CPE front, there are a number of taiwanese
ODM's expected to announce
sub 300 dollar integrated CPE.

-

Jeff


On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:28 PM, George wrote:


Ok, so far Jeff is the only one to say that unlicended Wimax will
be available with Aperto and Airspan.

What do you know Charles?

George

Charles Wu wrote:

Alvarion VL is based on a WiFi chipset (this isn't meant to knock
Alvarion,
since almost every 5 GHz PtMP WISP manufacturered product out
there is also
based on a similar chipset)
Alvarion BreezeMAX (they're product pending WiMAX certification)
doesn't
operate in 5 GHz
-Charles
---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pete Davis
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
I thought Alvarion was Wimax, or wimax-able, or wimax compatible,
or software-flashable to wimax. Wimax-ilicious, or something.
pd
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

George


From what we have seen most of the unlicensed WIMAX will come into



its own


in the first half of 2007. The limitation for low cost units
comes down to the chipsets, we have tested prototype mini-pci
WIMAX radios (5Ghz) but they are far from ready for prime time.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com
This communication constitutes an electronic communication within
the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC
2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient
intended by the sender of this message. This communication may
contain  confidential and privileged material for the sole use of
the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the
intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential
or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or
distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic
mail and delete all copies of this communication



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX?
Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks
George
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Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Actually,

I would argue that the great thing about wimax is not really interop-  
its lower costs on CPE. Until there is an agreed upon profile for  
WImax QOS, then literally everyone who buys wimax base stations will  
use the same manufacturers client devices. The only major difference  
is CPE cost, which will be in the sub 300 range by mid 07. Now all  
the propritary systems on the market currently cant deliver the level  
of service that wimax equipment can, with the same projected CPE cost.


-
Jeff

On Apr 5, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Steve Stroh wrote:



Matt:

The capabilities of WiMAX ALREADY exist in the proprietary  
products of Alvarion, Redline, Aperto Networks, etc. WiMAX is a  
standardization of the lowest-common-denominator of those  
capabilities, with certified interoperability.


If you've waited this long for WiMAX capabilities, and don't care  
about interoperability... you've waited several years longer than  
you needed to.



Thanks,

Steve


On Apr 5, 2006, at 09:02, Matt Liotta wrote:

The entire point of WiMAX may be interoperability, but from a  
fixed wireless standpoint interoperability is meaningless. When  
and if mobile WiMAX becomes interesting interoperability will be  
important. Until then there is no need for it in a fixed wireless  
network, so the certification badge isn't desirable. What is  
desirable is the capabilities of the radios. We certainly want to  
see 802.16-based radios in 5.8Ghz.


-Matt



---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com

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Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-04 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Indeed.

Alvarion is not expected to request wimax certification until they  
determine
a WIMAX approved QOS mechanism, at least thats what I have heard as  
well.


-

Jeff



On Apr 4, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Charles Wu wrote:

Alvarion VL is based on a WiFi chipset (this isn't meant to knock  
Alvarion,
since almost every 5 GHz PtMP WISP manufacturered product out there  
is also

based on a similar chipset)

Alvarion BreezeMAX (they're product pending WiMAX certification)  
doesn't

operate in 5 GHz

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Pete Davis
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?


I thought Alvarion was Wimax, or wimax-able, or wimax compatible, or
software-flashable to wimax. Wimax-ilicious, or something.

pd

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

George


From what we have seen most of the unlicensed WIMAX will come into
its own

in the first half of 2007. The limitation for low cost units comes
down to the chipsets, we have tested prototype mini-pci WIMAX radios
(5Ghz) but they are far from ready for prime time.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com

This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the
meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510,  
and

its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the
sender of this message. This communication may contain  confidential
and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient  
and

receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not
constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the
communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the
sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this
communication




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX?
Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks
George
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Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-04 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

George,

I am sure there will be others, but likely the first will be Airspan  
( May is Beta ) and Aperto ( shipping
in June ). Redline likely will have product as well, but based on the  
fact that both Aperto and Airspan
have considerable experience with QOS PTMP, I would think they will  
have the only great product
out there. As well, on the CPE front, there are a number of taiwanese  
ODM's expected to announce

sub 300 dollar integrated CPE.

-

Jeff


On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:28 PM, George wrote:

Ok, so far Jeff is the only one to say that unlicended Wimax will  
be available with Aperto and Airspan.


What do you know Charles?

George

Charles Wu wrote:
Alvarion VL is based on a WiFi chipset (this isn't meant to knock  
Alvarion,
since almost every 5 GHz PtMP WISP manufacturered product out  
there is also

based on a similar chipset)
Alvarion BreezeMAX (they're product pending WiMAX certification)  
doesn't

operate in 5 GHz
-Charles
---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Pete Davis
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
I thought Alvarion was Wimax, or wimax-able, or wimax compatible,  
or software-flashable to wimax. Wimax-ilicious, or something.

pd
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

George


From what we have seen most of the unlicensed WIMAX will come into



its own


in the first half of 2007. The limitation for low cost units  
comes down to the chipsets, we have tested prototype mini-pci  
WIMAX radios (5Ghz) but they are far from ready for prime time.


Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com
This communication constitutes an electronic communication within  
the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC  
2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient  
intended by the sender of this message. This communication may  
contain  confidential and privileged material for the sole use of  
the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the  
intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential  
or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or  
distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the  
intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic  
mail and delete all copies of this communication




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George

Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX?
Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks
George
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Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-04 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
That is correct, however those companies are expected to be shipping  
product ( and are taking pre orders )  that will comply with the  
testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get off their  
collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for example, already has  
wimax 4.9 product and is getting FCC certification. So in conclusion,  
yes on product, no on the interop profile or tests yet.


-

Jeff


On Apr 4, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Steve Stroh wrote:



Neat trick... considering...

There is not yet a WiMAX 5.8 GHz interoperability profile.
Because there is not yet a WiMAX 5.8 GHz WiMAX interoperability  
profile, there have not yet been any 5.8 GHz interoperability tests.
Because there has not yet been any WiMAX 5.8 GHz interoperability  
tests, there cannot be any WiMAX 5.8 GHz products certified as  
having completed the tests and declared interoperable.


And, unless a product has been through the interoperability tests  
and declared interoperable, it cannot use the WiMAX brand name.


Nope - no _5.8 GHz_ (license-exempt is assumed) WiMAX products.  
PERHAPS by year end... but I suspect it will be longer given that  
the vendors are going to be VERY busy selling all the 3.5 GHz  
(licensed, non-US markets) gear they can make AND getting Mobile  
WiMAX out will consume the available interoperability testing  
facilities and the attentions of the Mobile portions of the WiMAX  
industry.


5.8 GHz WiMAX is kind of an afterthought at the moment for the  
WiMAX industry.



Thanks,

Steve


On Apr 4, 2006, at 11:37, jeffrey thomas wrote:


George,

Yes there is. Airspan and Aperto both have products and are taking
orders now.

-

Jeff

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:16:46 -0700, George [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:

What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX?
Is there any products released yet or about to be released?
Thanks
George


---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com

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[WISPA] Fwd: Bellevue WISP ??

2006-04-03 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Can anyone help someone at this address?Begin forwarded message:From: "Ian Haight" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: April 3, 2006 5:25:47 PM PDTTo: "'Jeff Booher'" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Bellevue WISP ??     Here is the address..   1621 114th ave SE Bellevue, WA 98004        -- 
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Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?

2006-02-01 Thread jeffrey thomas
If your contract with a tower specifies that you hold access rights to
spectrum within the bands whether you are USING THEM currently, or not
using them currently, then I would suppose your exclusive rights would
hold up, but am unaware of any legal precedence to show this. 

There was a company that had a similar contract on the BOA tower in
seattle that tried using this without any success as well, when I was
with another firm a few years back. Reality is there is no exclusive
rights to bands within unlicensed. ( my 2 cents)

-

Jeff


 
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:06:23 -0600, Dylan Oliver
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Huh. What's the difference between quasi and true exclusive rights? What
 *would* hold up?
 
 Best,
 --
 Dylan Oliver
 Primaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?

2006-01-31 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
they tried to sue us :)-JeffOn Jan 23, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:   http://www.verilan.com/   I was hoping to have a closer additional source for things (I always try to have more than one) and these people have some stuff I use listed for sale at decent prices.   But, over the course of about 3 days, and approximately 30 phone calls to thier number, I never managed to reach a live person.   I tried accounting, tech support, sales, etc.   I lost track of the number of times I called, but I called everywhere between morning, after 5, mid-day, etc.      I realize this isn't saying much positive about them, I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of them or done business with them.   Thanks   North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot netsales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot netFast Internet, NO WIRES!--- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- 
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Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?

2006-01-31 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
It was over some tower and access rights issues regarding spectrum. They signed some quasi exclusive rights agreement with a tower company, which didnt hold up so they dropped the suit.-JeffOn Jan 31, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Dylan Oliver wrote:Oh shit. I just realized that both "Primaverity" and "Verilan" contain the element "veri". Maybe they'll sue me, too! They own the Local Area Network of Truth!.. But I've got got the Original claim to Truth. On 1/31/06, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: they tried to sue us :)-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- 
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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-20 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
I dont know of anyone manufacturing a 700mhz or below 2.5ghz wimax product yet. I doubt we will see anything in those bands.-JeffOn Jan 20, 2006, at 6:55 AM, Blair Davis wrote: If it really works.  All the results I have seen show that WiMax equipment is gonna help the guys with NLoS issues in the city and other built up areas.  Not those of us out here with the great tree infestation.  I really think the only thing that will help us out here where the trees are is a lower frequency  say below 700MHzJeffrey Thomas wrote:   All, Before everyone jumps for joy, Wimax CPE and base stations will be priced as low as 2250 / Sector for a fully integrated version ( all odu ) and CPE are expected to drop immediately to as low as 220-250.  Then again, in the US markets that wont matter until at the earliest, may or june.  -  Jeff  On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:Trango Introduces New $149 WISP Subscriber Unit— Lowest priced fixed wireless modem available —SAN DIEGO, CA — January 18, 2006 - Trango Broadband Wireless, the leader in fixed broadband wireless equipment, introduced a major addition to its product line which will enable Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs) to, for the first time, compete head-to-head against cable and DSL providers with the high performance Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, priced at just $149 and capable of internet transmission speeds from 10 to 30 Mbps. “We truly believe that the introduction of the Atlas Fox wireless modem is the sea change event that will transform the wireless internet service market into a consumer mass-market service capable of out-competing cable and DSL delivery methods,” said Zdravko Divjak, CEO and President of Trango Broadband Wireless. “This product is eliminating the final obstacle toward nationwide deployments of fixed broadband wireless networks capable of serving millions of users coast to coast.”“There’s nothing lite about the Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU,” said Todd Easterling, Vice President of Worldwide Marketing for Trango Broadband Wireless. “This product offers the industry’s highest performance and at a dramatic price breakthrough. Our engineers have outdone themselves on this one, and many of the wireless internet service providers who have Beta-tested the Atlas Fox are raving about the price to performance ratio. To provide real 10 Mbps to their subscribers, at only $149 for the CPE (consumer premise equipment), enables WISPs to offer high-speed internet access to an entirely new market. More than ever, the return on investment and break-even points for WISPs deploying Trango are measurably superior to our competitors,” added Mr. Easterling. “Over the past few months we have clearly seen the cost and design benefits associated with controlling the entire product development and sales process—from engineering specification, to radios rolling off the production line of our own state-of-the-art factory in San Diego, to the direct sales model for the U.S. market. And most importantly, we’re passing on many of these benefits to our customers.” Trango’s Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, which can reach internet subscribers over twelve miles away from an Access Point (AP), currently provides upload and download speeds up to 10Mbps, and is upgradeable to speeds over 30Mbps. This provides a platform for next generation internet services known as the “triple play” (voice, video and data). In contrast, cable and telephone/DSL companies generally offer service between 1 Mbps and 6 Mbps bandwidth for downloads, and between 128 Kbps and 768 Kbps for uploads. Trango is taking orders for the Atlas Fox now. Shipments begin February 7 th, 2006. Larry A Weidig wrote:  	Go to the web site, $149 CPE. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Have they produced a product that can pass 1Gbps full-duplex with a -92
signal in a NLOS environment?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 January 2006 19:01
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Come on... they are lowering prices? Atlas will be $100 for cpe?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
Behalf
Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Whooa  - - I got a phone call yesterday from Trango that made me smile
all over!

Guys and Gals - - - -- hang on as we are about to enter the Twilight
Zone!!
Trango has some news that is gonna make all of us smile deep, long and
wide!!! I am not at liberty to disclose the info - - but they will in
a
day or two from what I

Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Because in 6 months, you will be able to buy a Wimax Cpe for 200 bucks.

-

Jeff

On Jan 18, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

Hope that affects the price of everything else, at this point who  
would

by an 802.11a cpe for $250 when you can buy a trango for $150?

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Well MAC.Did we find the right news? Or is there more???

Mac Dearman wrote:

Whooa  - - I got a phone call yesterday from Trango that made me  
smile



all over!

Guys and Gals - - - -- hang on as we are about to enter the Twilight
Zone!!

Trango has some news that is gonna make all of us smile deep, long  
and



wide!!! I am not at liberty to disclose the info - - but they will in
a day or two from what I understand. Man its gonna be G R E A T!!
giggling like a little girl

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 318.303.4227
318.303.4229






--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring

2006-01-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Additionally on the whole co-op idea, there are different non profits  
for

co-op's, which wispa is not set up as.

-

Jeff

On Jan 5, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Charles Wu wrote:


Tom,

Your idea is sound, but personally, I would think that what you  
propose

falls into the same category as the WISP Buying Coop
IMO, WISPA needs to focus on talking / lobbying in front of the FCC
Now, if WISPA members want to get together and form such a CoOp --  
go for it


Btw...Part-15 I believe has some sort of wholesale VoIP program for  
its

members (through Nuvio?)...

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring


Matt Larson,

I do not have adequate experience to pass judgement on your suggested
configuration. However I will add, base on my recent Rant regarding
Wholesale VOIP providers that don't look at small WISPs as valuable
partners, I believe leveraging WISPA membership base to negotiate a  
good
deal for us all is a good idea. I believe WISPA should agree to  
endorse a
wholesale provider in exchange for them to be required to give  
partnership
to 100% of WISPA member's that request partnership.  I'd be willing  
to waive


my personal preference of providers in favor of selecting a VOIP  
wholesaler

that supports WISPs and recognizes our consolidated numbers as worthy
partners.

WISPA then could also act as a mechanism to more effectively  
distribute
reocurring changing information to the membership so the Wholesaler  
only has


to do it once.

Many discussion have been had on what ventures should be explored  
by WISPA
for the benefit of the membership, that would not be in conflict  
with the
services that the members themselves already provided, and was in  
line with

the goals of the organization adn what it is intented to be.

Facilitating a group deal for VOIP is one of those things that I  
think would


be a great thing for WISPA to do. But its got to be an all or  
nothing deal,
meaning vendor accepts all WISPA members that are interested, as a  
condition


of agreement.  Negotiate once, replicate many.

The reality is most WISPs are not the size alone to have any weight to
negotiate. Maybe a few guys like Travis have enough volume, but not  
the

majority of us. I'd be willing to donate time to that cause if needed,
wether it be determining the requirements needed in an agreement or
distributing the info after the fact.

Whether the provider be you, Matt Liotta, or a national carrier is
irrelevant to me. I just believe that WISPs will own at least 15%  
of the
nations broadband subscribers at some point, and I believe that  
that is a
significant enough market share that there has got to be someone  
with enough


brains to realize the value of WISP partners, to the extent that  
they will

offer favorable terms to the organization.

My concern is that most VOIP providers (that value partnerships)  
home in on

business managed PBX VOIP solutions. Although I do not dispute their
reasoning for that, that does not help WISPs nationwide, whose  
businesses

may include a large amount of residential focus as well.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring



I don't believe you will find good margins with the setup you are
specifying. Additionally, you can forget about fax working, which  
is an

absolute requirement for businesses.

If anyone on this list wants to do VoIP over wireless, figure out how
to
do fax before committing to the business. From experience I can  
tell you

that it cost us an enormous amount of money to get fax working with
Asterisk.

-Matt

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:


Hello all,

After a year and a half of watching, jumping in and learning about
VOIP,
I think I have come up with a way to implement it with a  
relatively low
budget setup.  Here is my very general outline of how to deliver  
VOIP on

a shoestring:

1)  Asterisk server with AMP (Asterisk Management Portal):  This  
is a
great soho phone system, but on the right machine it appears that  
it can
also be used as a production VOIP server.  The key is that it  
uses MySQL

databases for the extension and trunk configurations.  Another
necessity - G.729 codec licensing.  G.729, GSM and ilbc codecs  
work great



on wireless - even garden variety wifi.  AMP has a nice web-based
interface for maintenance and a decent website for checking voice  
mail

and account usage.

2)  Freeside billing server - Freeside can be modified to submit the
necessary variables for voip service to an AMP box.  That means  
that the

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform

2006-01-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
There are operators who applied for say, an experimental license with  
500 subscribers

testing the RF portion of the service.

It is a risk, but since that spectrum is slated to be unlicensed, I  
doubt the risk is too great.


-

Jeff



On Jan 5, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Charles Wu wrote:

Yes -- experimental licenses have been available for quite some  
time now --

we have one =)
But if you read the FCC rules closely -- there are A LOT of  
limitations, and

no, running a business off such a license is a BAD IDEA

-Charles


---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 2:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform


This has been discussed in depth on the private WISPA list. The FCC is
giving 3.65Ghz licenses for experimental purposes, which you can  
use to

provide customers with service. However, it may not be a wise business
decision to rely on experimental spectrum, which can go away at any  
time.


-Matt

Charles Wu wrote:


Hi Matt,

Can you please shed some light on your 3.65 GHz license?

To my knowledge (and we work with the FCC on licensing almost on a
daily
basis) -- 3.65 GHz is not yet legally licensable for commercial  
common

carrier applications

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform


Is there any vendor besides Aperto that has product that will work  
with

our 3.65Ghz license?

-Matt

Brad Larson wrote:




Jeff, LOL. Be careful who you're listening to. Like I said, there is
allot of total BS out there being spread by certain
people/manufacturer's. There are several waves of certifications
coming. Just because we didn't show up for the first wave doesn't  
mean
we don't have a product. When the others get caught up Alvarion  
will be

there for the real test phases. Brad

http://www.techworld.com/mobility/features/index.cfm?featureID=2021
http://www.alvarion-usa.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2109/
http://www.alvarion-usa.com/presscenter/pressreleases/




-Original Message-
From: jeffrey thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:50 PM
To: WISPA General List; 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform



3.5 / 2.5 / 5.8

Alvarion I believe from what I heard was waiting for the QOS  
revision

to be agreed on.

-

Jeff


On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:34:42 -0800 , Brad Larson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:




Jeff, In what Frequency? There is allot of BS out there in the  
first
wave of testing for those that have yet to get a product to  
market. We

can discuss
if you would like? Brad



-Original Message-
From: jeffrey thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:29 PM
To: WISPA General List; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform


The only product on the market today that will have backwards
compatibility to wimax where a cpe can talk to a wimax base  
station is

Aperto. Additionally,
Alvarion will not be one of the first round products certified for
wimax,
Airspan and Aperto however, will be.

-

Jeff



On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:22:30 -0600, John Scrivner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:





Is there a firmware upgrade path for WiMAX through the VL product
line
or is it a hardware change? Feel free to have someone contact  
me offlist











for pricing information. I have a need for a PtMP system with more
capacity than I have now with my current system. I do not know of
many systems that meet the specs you list here and I already know
many people










are quite fond of the product.

Maybe this time the price won't drive me away as has been the case
in the past. Please do not take that as a slam. It is not. I know
the quality is there and it is a matter of economics for me only
that has ever kept me away from Alvarion products. You guys build
good stuff and in some markets the price is easily recovered  
through

ROI. Thanks, Scriv



Brad Larson wrote:





John, Typically 4 sector base stations are built with either  
5.3 or
a licensed link as backhaul. With BreezeAccess VL, true data  
sector
performance is 28 meg's in a 20 Mhz channel and half that in  
10 Mhz






Next





firmware release is going to mid 30's in a 20 Mhz channel (again
true





data





rates). I know of one sector that has 200 sub's attached although
most sectors have less than 100. This customer looked at most
manufacturer's





gear





and concluded Alvarion had the management feature sets, ease of
batch processing for firmware uploads, obstructed

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform

2006-01-04 Thread jeffrey thomas
The only product on the market today that will have backwards
compatibility to 
wimax where a cpe can talk to a wimax base station is Aperto.
Additionally,
Alvarion will not be one of the first round products certified for
wimax,
Airspan and Aperto however, will be. 

-

Jeff



On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:22:30 -0600, John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 Is there a firmware upgrade path for WiMAX through the VL product line 
 or is it a hardware change? Feel free to have someone contact me offlist 
 for pricing information. I have a need for a PtMP system with more 
 capacity than I have now with my current system. I do not know of many 
 systems that meet the specs you list here and I already know many people 
 are quite fond of the product.
 
 Maybe this time the price won't drive me away as has been the case in 
 the past. Please do not take that as a slam. It is not. I know the 
 quality is there and it is a matter of economics for me only that has 
 ever kept me away from Alvarion products. You guys build good stuff and 
 in some markets the price is easily recovered through ROI.
 Thanks,
 Scriv
 
 
 
 Brad Larson wrote:
 
 John, Typically 4 sector base stations are built with either 5.3 or a
 licensed link as backhaul. With BreezeAccess VL, true data sector
 performance is 28 meg's in a 20 Mhz channel and half that in 10 Mhz Next
 firmware release is going to mid 30's in a 20 Mhz channel (again true data
 rates). I know of one sector that has 200 sub's attached although most
 sectors have less than 100. This customer looked at most manufacturer's gear
 and concluded Alvarion had the management feature sets, ease of batch
 processing for firmware uploads, obstructed NLOS for their application, and
 a host of other likes including Alvarion's support infrastructure. 
 
 To be honest I don't think we have many Alvarion Operators that subscribe
 here but that doesn't mean there aren't a crap load of them out there which
 should be obviuos to everyone. Typically our Operators use Alvarion support
 Application Engineers and Alvarion web servers such as Mike Cowan's at ACC
 when needed. 
 
 This could end up being a long dialog about the differences in operators,
 products, and ROI models but I won't go there. Brad
 
 
 
   
 
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RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform

2006-01-04 Thread jeffrey thomas

3.5 / 2.5 / 5.8

Alvarion I believe from what I heard was waiting for the QOS revision to
be 
agreed on.

-

Jeff


On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:34:42 -0800 , Brad Larson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Jeff, In what Frequency? There is allot of BS out there in the first wave
 of
 testing for those that have yet to get a product to market. We can
 discuss
 if you would like? Brad
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: jeffrey thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL as a PtMP Platform
 
 
 The only product on the market today that will have backwards
 compatibility to 
 wimax where a cpe can talk to a wimax base station is Aperto.
 Additionally,
 Alvarion will not be one of the first round products certified for
 wimax,
 Airspan and Aperto however, will be. 
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 
 On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:22:30 -0600, John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 said:
  Is there a firmware upgrade path for WiMAX through the VL product line 
  or is it a hardware change? Feel free to have someone contact me offlist 
  for pricing information. I have a need for a PtMP system with more 
  capacity than I have now with my current system. I do not know of many 
  systems that meet the specs you list here and I already know many people 
  are quite fond of the product.
  
  Maybe this time the price won't drive me away as has been the case in 
  the past. Please do not take that as a slam. It is not. I know the 
  quality is there and it is a matter of economics for me only that has 
  ever kept me away from Alvarion products. You guys build good stuff and 
  in some markets the price is easily recovered through ROI.
  Thanks,
  Scriv
  
  
  
  Brad Larson wrote:
  
  John, Typically 4 sector base stations are built with either 5.3 or a
  licensed link as backhaul. With BreezeAccess VL, true data sector
  performance is 28 meg's in a 20 Mhz channel and half that in 10 Mhz Next
  firmware release is going to mid 30's in a 20 Mhz channel (again true
 data
  rates). I know of one sector that has 200 sub's attached although most
  sectors have less than 100. This customer looked at most manufacturer's
 gear
  and concluded Alvarion had the management feature sets, ease of batch
  processing for firmware uploads, obstructed NLOS for their application,
 and
  a host of other likes including Alvarion's support infrastructure. 
  
  To be honest I don't think we have many Alvarion Operators that subscribe
  here but that doesn't mean there aren't a crap load of them out there
 which
  should be obviuos to everyone. Typically our Operators use Alvarion
 support
  Application Engineers and Alvarion web servers such as Mike Cowan's at
 ACC
  when needed. 
  
  This could end up being a long dialog about the differences in operators,
  products, and ROI models but I won't go there. Brad
  
  
  

  
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 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
I would second that- you can usually find good quality ( stratex for  
example ) used backhauls on ebay for around a few grand.


-

Jeff

On Dec 20, 2005, at 3:35 AM, G.Villarini wrote:


John ,

Youre best and cheap option here is a 38 ghz lic. Backhaul.  For  
around
$1000 or less you can buy the whole DS3 link with antennas, youll  
need to
buy a pair of DS3 to Ethernet converters if you want Ethernet  
(around $1500

or less for the pair).  The license lease is around $500 anually

This will give you a full duplex 45 mbps link with a 1 - 2 ms round  
trip

delay

Gino A. Villarini,
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg  
full

or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or
so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay  
fiber

for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying
fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless
provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when  
Charter
is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your  
feedback.

Scriv

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Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices

2005-12-18 Thread jeffrey thomas
Airspan can be had around 3 and change for indoor su's. outdoors around
4 and a quarter...


On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:09:58 -0600, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 OUCH!   I have bought singles that cheap from doubleradius
 
 Mac Dearman
 Maximum Access, LLC.
 www.inetsouth.com
 www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
 318-728-8600 - Rayville
 318-728-9600
 318-376-2562 - cell
 
 
 
 
 Rick Smith wrote:
 
   
  Travis has gotta be full of it!
   
  Distributors for Trango previously, when buying in 100 packs, never 
  got prices better than 420...
 
  
  *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher
  *Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:08 AM
  *To:* WISPA General List
  *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices
 
  You get Trango cheaper?  Prices please!
 
  Travis Johnson wrote:
 
  Wow that's more than I pay for the Trango 900mhz and it has dual 
  polarity integrated antennas. ;)
 
  Travis
  Microserv
 
  Ron Wallace wrote:
 
 My Man.  Brian, Excellent.
 
  Original message 
   
 
 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:53:40 -0500
 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 Subject: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices  
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 
   Read it and weep nay sayers  ;-)
 
   I found a VAR to work with.
 
   Prices for canopy 900.
 
   Connectorized-  $262.60
   Integrated-  $328.7
 
   All details are being posted to Principal Members List.
   You must be a paid WISPA member to take advantage of the
   offer.
   I'd like to get an estimate of volume to the VAR. 
   Pay up to WISPA and hit me offlist to how many you think you
   could use a month (you won't be committed to this, it's just
   for a general idea)
 
   Brian
 
   Ron Wallace wrote:
 
 Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some
 money, good.
 
 Ron Wallace
 
  Original message 
  
 
 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500
 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices 
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 
 I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it.
 
 First step.  Principal Members only.  You want a deal, fork over 200
 some bucks and support the industry.
 Second step.  Find 10 people who want ten units.  (500 if possible,

 
 but
  
 
 prolly 100 pack to start)
 Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.
 fourth step.  Call resellers and get quote.  Say look here.  I have a
 buying group.  I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped

 
 to
  
 
 10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email  Forward quote to next

 
 reseller
  
 
 and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want the

 
 business
  
 
 of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal.  Am I
 acting like a know it all Charles?  Would all the resellers say screw
 you if I approached like this?
 If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust

 
 here)
  
 
 run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship

 
 from
  
 
 here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra
 shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured
 before hand.
 
 I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only

 
 question
  
 
 is how warranty is handled.  By MAC addy or by who bought the radio.
 
 Someone let me know if my approach is out of line.  Never done this

 
 and
  
 
 might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)
 
 Brian
 
 A. Huppenthal wrote:
 

 
 Charles,
 
 I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact
  
 
 is
  
 
 I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't
 difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a
 closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to
  
 
 apples.
  
 
 I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.
 
 However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send
  
 
 Jim,
  
 
 George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs
 if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need
  
 
 support,
  
 
 training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer.
 Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct
 to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors
 for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't
 pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..
 
 Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly
 doesn't support group buys.
 
 The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it
  
 
 ends
  
 
 when the product is delivered.
 
 
 Charles Wu wrote:
 
  
 
 snip
 You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up
 eating the organization and the organization becomes caught 

Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato

2005-12-18 Thread jeffrey thomas
and 15 grand a pop. Would have never made it underneath their pricing
model.

Also- their first version wasnt a beam forming switch.


On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:26:23 -0600, Joe Laura [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 Ya, they kind of resembled a billboard if you ask me. Serious windload. 
 Superior Wireless
 New Orleans,La.
 www.superior1.com
   - Original Message - 
   From: Brian Rohrbacher 
   To: WISPA General List 
   Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:21 PM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato
 
 
   Weren't they super expensive stuff?  Were they big?
 
   G.Villarini wrote: 
 Another one bytes the dust .
 
 
 
 http://www.vivato.net/
 
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini, 
 
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 www.aeronetpr.com
 
 787.767.7466
 
 
 
 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/204 - Release Date:
 12/15/2005
   
 
 -- 
 Brian Rohrbacher
 Reliable Internet, LLC
 www.reliableinter.net
 Cell 269-838-8338
 
 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17
 
 --
 
 
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RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

2005-12-15 Thread jeffrey thomas
/delurk

Top 5 reasons why legacy navini sucks

1.SCDMA phy/mac increases latency to low of 80msec peak 280msec and avg
of 100msec with 14-25% jitter.
 ( in english, the latency sucks arse )

2. only truely makes sense for sub 2 mile cell NLOS deployment with
BRS/MDS/ITFS Licensed spectrum. ( 2.5 ) licensed- 
reason being is that the average recieve sensitivity that it will work
in a nlos cell is -105 dbm. in a 2.4 enviorment, the average noise floor
is at least -95dbm = wont work 50-60% of the time.

3. even if they dropped the price to 10k a sector, its still a
rediculous price for a product that doesnt offer any QOS ( and cant
offer qos ) to deliver a residential service

4. Their zero truck roll model usually only applies to 60% of customer
deployments which = not a zero truck roll model

5. blatent marketing lies = unhappy customers

my 2 cents

-

\lurk

-

Jeff


On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:51:44 -, Paul Hendry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Hey Dustin, could you elaborate on the navini sucks statement? We where
 looking at deploying them so would be good to know why they are not good.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of dustin jurman
 Sent: 15 December 2005 18:48
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi
 
 I think that is supposed to be 1.5 meg a seconds.  They use navini and
 this
 is just a response to shut down the new Orleans muni project.  And the
 reason they don't support VOIP over it is because navini sucks.  This is
 Bellsouth's way of saying look! - SHINNY BLUE THING!
 
 Dustin  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Peter R.
 Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:23 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi
 
 http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1134594567.htm
 
 Post Katrina: Mississippi Gets Wireless Broadband
 
 BellSouth has begun deploying high-speed wireless broadband speeds as
 fast
 as 1.5 Gb/s in Gulfport and Biloxi, Miss., modifying the company's
 original
 wireless broadband rollout plans in order to get service to residents of
 the
 hurricane-ravaged area, where the infrastructure damage is so huge it
 hasn't
 been fixed yet.
 
 The incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC), whose original rollout plans
 envisioned only offering wide-area wireless broadband in rural areas, is
 also offering residents of the Mississippi towns a bit of a discount out
 of
 sympathy for their plight - and, of course, the good publicity it might
 get
 out of the move.
 
 Small businesses and homeowners are still rebuilding, and they are
 looking
 to BellSouth to provide the critical communications they need to get
 their
 lives in order, says John McCullouch, president of BellSouth's
 Mississippi
 operations. Our wireless broadband service will provide customers with a
 viable and economical solution for high-speed Internet access.
 
 A BellSouth spokeswoman added that, after blanketing the hurricane-hit
 cities, the carrier will now return to our original strategy of
 (offering
 wireless broadband in) areas from suburbia on out, where such services
 as
 DSL can't be delivered economically.
 
 About a month ago, BellSouth began offering a high-speed wireless service
 in
 downtown New Orleans, but that was priced as a small-business service
 only.
 It was absolutely critical to getting the city up and running, the
 BellSouth spokeswoman explained, regarding the decision not to offer a
 residential plan.
 
 One thing BellSouth is not offering the Mississippi residents, however,
 is
 voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) on its shiny, new, wireless
 broadband.
 The company had no explanation of why, other than the simple fact that
 it's
 not going to offer it for now. For more on BellSouth's wireless rollout
 progress in the Gulf area, read the current issue of Broadband Business
 Forecast. For a trial subscription, go to
 http://www.telecomweb.com/cgi/catalog/info?BNN.
 
 Thank you.
 
 Regards,
 
 Peter
 RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
 We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
 813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156
 fax 305.675.6494
 http://4isps.com
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Fw:Show support

2005-09-12 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
If the donation is going to a NPO, I Think my company could make a  
contribution, or myself personally. So- someone let me know the  
details...



On Sep 12, 2005, at 9:38 AM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Another great reason to support ISPCon if you can.  (For those that  
don't know, Jon is the show owner.)


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own  
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Rick Harnish  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA Board Members List' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: RE:



Reprimand accepted. I've been working with Jon Price (ISPCON).  He  
just
donated $2000 through the WISPA paypal account.  He is also  
considering a
discount to vendors for booth space if they will donate to the  
WISPA effort.

He will be sending me the press release soon I hope.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
260-307-4000 Cell
260-918-4340 VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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