RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
JMJM and Bill:   Sorry to intrude between your both interesting conversation but I'd like to contribute to it too:    The way I experience Just This  is that the form and the non form interbeing with each other.  I would disagree with Bill here saying that excludes de form.  The form takes

RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
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RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
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Re: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread siska_cen
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Re: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread mike brown
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[Zen] Samadhi anyone?

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true. --Bertrand Russell What is your understanding of 'Samadhi'? --ED

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
JMJM,   You say: Kensho『見性』 is resulted from sitting, which is a state before Samadhi『三摩地』。 I think kensho results from sitting and it is a state after samadhi. That is what most people think. If you think otherwise, perhaps you had a unique experience.   You say:   The Sixth Patriarch did not

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Lluís Mendieta
Hi, Anthony You say: The Sixth Patriarch did not even read or write. Yes, you are right, but he asked others to read and write for him, because he was illiterate. In other words, he had trouble with Chinese ideographic characters, but he was very smart in understanding language. That is a

[Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Lana M. Gibbons
Greetings, I apparently have been practicing a number of principles of Zen for quite some time, albeit completely unintentionally. A lot of what I am reading now are things I have realized through experience without external guidance: It is very refreshing to see there are teachings for this

RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
Bill,   只管打坐 is a Chinese phrase pronounced zhiguan dazuo in Chinese, and shikantaza in Japanese. You cannot break them down into individual characters and try to work out the meaning of the whole phrase, but you can separate them into zhiguan (shikan in Japanese) and dazuo (taza). The former

RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
Bill,   As I already said, shikantaza denotes 'only sit'. The rest are derived meanings. For you the derivative of shikantaza is clear mind. For a taleban member, it can result in a comprehensive murder plan.   Anthony --- On Wed, 24/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
Lana wrote: So I ask: How do you interact with the people in this world?   Dear Lana: Have a warm welcome to us..  My advice here to you will be that of forget all you have learnt so far and start all over completely a new.  As if you were a baby recently borne who has everything to

RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
Bill,   Under your guidance, I lost my ability to commit atrocities. But the whole human socieity needs a deterrent to prevent bad elements from committing them. Otherwise, the world will be in turmoil. What is your idea about preventing turmoil? Or don't you think it unnecessary?   BTW, I have

Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
Siska,   Thank you for your compliment. I am not a good teacher. How can a man of low intelligence be a teacher, let alone a good one?   Anthony --- On Wed, 24/11/10, siska_...@yahoo.com siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: From: siska_...@yahoo.com siska_...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
Lluis,   Probably both Emperor Akbhar and the Sixth Patriarch Huinent were dislexic, and both were very intelligent as well. They have a lot in common. The Sixth Patriarch Huineng does not belong to any Tibetan lineages such as represented by Naropa, Tilopa etc. Huineng belongs to the lineage

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Rose P
Good question Lana. It would be great to have more discussion in this forum about the nitty gritty of dealing with people in the world. Rose --- On Wed, 11/24/10, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@gmail.com wrote: From: Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@gmail.com Subject: [Zen] New Member To:

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Lana M. Gibbons
It seems to me that traditional buddhists were able to step away from the world and dedicate themselves to their studies, some did not even have to do chores! Only the teachers really needed to interact with outsiders and even then, they only really interacted with those who were interested in

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread ED
JMJM, Do you have a reference to support you position that kensho is prior to satori? Thanks, ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: JMJM, You say: Kensho is resulted from sitting, which is a state before Samadhi I think kensho results from sitting and it

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Lana M. Gibbons
No, Thank You. I already have much of the infant's mentality, the lack of duality, the awareness, the no-mind - to discard all of what I have learned so far would be to discard my true self. The typical five year old has many concepts and ideas, they are possessive, materialistic, extreme in

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
Thanks Rose;  Agree with you and Lana.  Let's heat this thread!, though imput is not a guarantee  amongst the readers of zen, philosophers, religious discussions,  koans headacheWhat a slap in the face to make us all come back to the real world of the living!..   Would you be so kind to do

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
Lana:   The idea of the child is not as the silly child but the childlike.  Very different things.  The child is inmature.  The childlike is mature and wise without knowing of being.   Mayka --- On Wed, 24/11/10, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@gmail.com wrote: From: Lana M. Gibbons

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Lana, From your own experience (which is the only non-illusory mode of sensing true reality that is accepted on this zen forum,) have you any evidence that 'buddhas' exist? Thanks, --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@... wrote: No, Thank You. I already

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Rose and Lana, For an unenlightened response, the question can only be answered on a case by case basis. For an enlightened response, the answer is 'just THIS' in every moment. (But that may infuriate the other if he/she is unaware of the rules of the game that you are playing from!) ---ED

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Lana, The way in which babies normally and naturally behave is to be obsessed with 'I/me/mine' (it's ego), with no regard whatsoever for the needs of its mother or anyone else - and without which attitude it would not survive. In short, if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for

[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Anthony, Everybody is a teacher of somebody on some occasion. Contrary individuals, in their normal state, are the best teachers - provided one is ready for the teachings. :-) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Siska, Thank you for your compliment. I am

RE: [Zen] Samadhi anyone?

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
about, nor whether what we are saying is true.   --Bertrand Russell What is your understanding of  'Samadhi'? --ED __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5646 (20101124) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http

RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
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RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
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[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Anthony, Both you and Bill are 'right'. --ED Shikantaza is a Japanese term for zazen introduced by Rujing and associated most with the Soto school of Zen Buddhism, but which also is the base of all Zen disciplines. According to Dôgen Zenji, shikantaza i.e. resting in a state of brightly

RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
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RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
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Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
Lana:   When I'm into the discriminative mind I see and experience everything as you are giving a description here. But when I regain inner calm and serenity,   at those moments the world seems perfect in its imperfection. Actually at those moments I see no perfection or imperfection.  Have you

Re: [Zen] Samadhi anyone?

2010-11-24 Thread ED
2 + 3 = 5 ... OR 4 OR 6 OR 7 OR ... --ED PS: o Samadhi is a Hindu, Buddhist and Sikh technical term that usually denotes higher levels of concentrated meditation, or dhyana, in Yogic schools. o In the Yoga tradition, it is the eighth and final limb identified in the Yoga Sutras of

Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread siska_cen
Hi Ed, Contrary individuals, in their normal state, are the best teachers - provided one is ready for the teachings. Reminds me of this: Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves (Carl Jung). siska -Original Message- From: ED

RE: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
zazen - but as you've pointed out at the beginning of your post this is not absolutely necessary. Welcome to the Zen Forum! ...Bill!   -Lana __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5646 (20101124) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32

RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
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RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
!, Mayka, etc... There is no longer Just THIS!. ...Bill! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5646 (20101124) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Current

RE: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread BillSmart
     So I ask: How do you interact with the people in this world?   __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5646 (20101124) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Hi Ed, I don't have any position. These are my personal experience. You could have your personal experience. Each journey of ours is unique. Each journey is precious. What is yours? However you say it is, it is not. Diamond sutra already repeated this over and over with 5,000 words

RE: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread Maria Lopez
, There, Here, Then, Good, Bad, Bill!, Mayka, etc... There is no longer Just THIS!. ...Bill! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5646 (20101124) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Hi JMJM, All you can tcorrectly assert is that you have experiened something. You cannot all by yourself tell whether what you have experienced is samadhi or kensho. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: Hi Ed, I don't have any position. These are my

[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread ED
I was under the impression that the exhale was to take longer than the inhale. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@... wrote: Thank you Bill. Yes it is 15 seconds. 6 seconds inhale. hold for 3 seconds. 6 seconds out. :-) Be Enlightened In

[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Hi siska, Exactly! Equivalently, Bill might say it's simply a not-flowing with the way things are in the here and now. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_...@... wrote: Hi Ed, Contrary individuals, in their normal state, are the best teachers - provided one is ready for the

Re: [Zen] Perhaps

2010-11-24 Thread ED
Hi Bill, Bill said: What you didn't talk about was the experience of just seeing, smelling, feeling and tasting. These are not forms. They are experience. They are empty. You place forms around them when you 'think or create the concepts of peach, hands, lips, pleasant, etc. Hi Bill,

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Ed, Correct. All these description are description of experience. No one in the world can know you what you have experienced. Therefore the description of any states is just emptiness. Therefore these type of discussion is emptiness.. :-) Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Lluís Mendieta
Many thanks, Anthony As far as I understand Buddhism, only different ways. Any of them would be the appropiate for me. Just trying to find it. With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: Anthony Wu To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:33

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Dear Lana, I was taught that all encounters of ours are form. And all forms are caused by some cause and each cause is caused by generations of causes, visible or invisible. We call these causes karma for simplicity sake. Please try to fulfill every encounter, because there is a reason

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Anthony, Please accept my apology. I mixed up the two English terms, I read samma-Samadhi as Samma-sanbodhi. You are right, Kensho is after the Samadhi. JM Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 11/24/2010 1:24 PM, Anthony Wu

Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread siska_cen
Hi Ed, Yes, which is the cause of most sufferings. siska -Original Message- From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 03:26:52 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas

Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
ED/JMJM,   I think JM means kensho is prior to samadhi, which is way before satori. JM's position is unique.   Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date:

Re: [Zen] New Member

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
ED,   You say:  if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for more than a few days would be 'buddhas' - and the population of human buddhas on this earth would be nil. --ED   Is there any logic in saying that? For someone of low intelligence, if the said babies survive, the population

Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
ED/Bill,   I think 'single-minded sitting' reflects accurately the meaning of shikantaza. Others are derivatives.   Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To:

RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book

2010-11-24 Thread Anthony Wu
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