[Zope-dev] Re: CRITICAL!!!! CVS: Zope/lib/python/OFS - Image.py:1.141.4.3
On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 07:51:08PM +0100, Maik Jablonski wrote: Andy McKay wrote: Well there you go, I deleted my sandbox and did clean cvs checkout and it seems to have updated correctly. I've put back Paul's patches as he originally intended them to be. Sorry about that. Partly my fault, Andy - you asked me yesterday to verify that you'd checked in everything I'd sent you, and I said yes. There was also a change to lib/python/Products/OFSP/help/Response.py that was part of my fix for #342 as well, did that make it in? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Welcome to Muppet Labs, where the future is made - today! ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] z3 sprint at pycon?
Is anybody planning a zope 3 sprint at pycon? would be a good excuse for me to dive into z3 :) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's COMPLEX ICE WITICIST! (courtesy of isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Publishing
On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 02:04:23PM -0800, Sameer Maggon wrote: Hi, In some CMS we have different environment for Development (Authoring), Staging and Production. The CMS Database that resides in the Development setup is usually more bulky than the database in the production and staging site. Can any body tell me how Zope fits into this situation, is there any component that takes care of this? We use ZSyncer to push changes from development to staging, and then to multiple production systems. It requires some carefulness because zsyncer is very very slow when pushing a lot of stuff at once. (It basically exports in memory the objects to be synced, transfers the export data across the network, and imports them on the remote machine with an xmlrpc call. All three stages of this process can potentially take a long time.) We're also having issues with zsyncer reporting incorrect sync status (both falsely reporting out-of-date status, AND falsely reporting OK status). I hope to block out some time to work on zsyncer soon and fix this. My major concern is that, it might be that my repository contains huge number of images but actually the site uses only some of them. So when actually deploying a site, the system should resolve those images and put the required files. I don't know of any existing tool to do that for zope. You'd have to write your own. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's PERFORMANCE ARTIST A-THON! (courtesy of isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] AdaptableStorage
On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 05:30:58PM +, seb bacon wrote: Shane, AdaptableStorage is insane and beautiful - congratulations :-) It seems to inspire insanity :) kosh and i got into a discussion on #zope about using AdaptableStorage with reiserfs4, mapping zope properties to reiserfs4 properties... finally, a fully really transparent unix filesystem - ZODB solution that isn't a half-assed version of either! didn't get into detail but it seems like it should be doable. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE BUTTERY THIGH! (courtesy of isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] [PATCH] Forking daemon in debug mode, and new start scripts
On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:26:11PM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: z2.py -Z0 STUPID_LOG_FILE= ... which prevents Zope from detaching from the terminal but doesn't imply debug mode. This may only work on recent checkouts, the semantics of -Z have changed recently. Interesting! In 2.6.0 the -Z flag is documented thus: -Z 0 or 1 UNIX only! This option is ignored on Windows. This option controls whether a management process will be created that restarts Zope after a shutdown or crash. If the argument to -Z is non-null (e.g. -Z1 or -Zyes), a management process will be used. If the argument to -Z is -, or 0, (e.g. -Z- or -Z0), a management process will not be used. On UNIX, the default behavior is to create a separate management process (e.g. -Z1) if the -Z option is not specified. (Note: the -Z option in Zopes before Zope 2.6 used to be used to specify a pidfile name for the management process. This pidfile no longer exists). Speaking of the (side-)effects of debug mode, what exactly are they? Is it just the automatic re-loading of DTMLFiles and PageTemplates from disk? It's that... and, unfortunately, god knows what else. To find out for sure, we'd need to audit the codebase (looking mostly for Z_DEBUG_MODE and __debug__). at least in 2.6 it also toggled whether tracebacks were displayed openly (debug mode) or embedded in an html comment. I'd like to address these problems for Zope 2.7, but I doubt it's going to be possible in the short term. What he said. :( -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE TONGUE! (courtesy of isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] [PATCH] Forking daemon in debug mode, and new start scripts
On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 08:07:01PM -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote: On January 21, Guido van Rossum wrote: There may be a Zope debug mode, but it's not related (even if it uses the same envariable). I'm sorry, I'm talking about Zope's debug mode. Eh? This started with your suggesting a change to ZEO/start.py, to which I objected. Oh well. What a waste of time. Now I'm lost. He posted a patch to lib/python/zdaemon/Daemon.py. Nobody said anything about ZEO/start.py. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] absolute_url: why not publishable?
Visit foo/absolute_url and you will find that it
has an empty or missing docstring.
Is this by design, or is it just something that nobody has needed?
I would like to propose making it callable TTW, unless somebody
knows a reason it should not be.
I could make use of it in two ways:
1) every now and then I forget that it doesn't work, and I type stuff like
http://my_zope_site/foo/bar/baz/absolute_url
when I'm not sure if baz is being acquired from foo, from bar, or the site root
(or maybe even a CMF skin) and I want to find out quickly.
2) (kind of esoteric) It would be nice to be able to easily get normalized
URLs from zope objects into non-zope systems that link to Zope content.
e.g. today I wished I could tell a JSP developer at my company to
use something like
a href=%= stupidHttpClient('http://zope_server/foo/bar/absolute_url') %
(... and yes, we do have something like a stupidHttpClient.)
-
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's HIGHLY TOXIC PIRATE!
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Re: [Zope-dev] absolute_url: why not publishable?
On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 05:08:35PM -0500, Shane Hathaway wrote: I don't know whether absolute_url should be accessible via URL, but here's a way to get the same thing (almost): add a script at the root of your site called AbsoluteURL, with the body return context.absolute_url(). Then just use http://example.com/foo/bar/AbsoluteURL; instead of http://example.com/foo/bar/absolute_url;. sure, I can do that... i'm just surprised it's not on by default. Here's another argument: Image.tag is callable via URL. absolute_url is not. Inconsistency is confusing, especially to newbies. if I had the time, I'd go through the API Reference and catalog methods that are callable by URL and methods that are not, and try to make some sense of it. I suspect it would be pretty random ;-) For now, I think I will file a feature request patch in the collector. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's OCTO FLAGELLA FIGHTER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] What makes Zope twirl?
Or: when zope goes into a nonresponsive state, what can you do to diagnose the cause? The even that prompts this question: Our production system (2 zeo clients) went down today. Platform: Linux 2.4, Zope 2.5.1 from source (wo_pcgi), Python 2.1.3 from source, running behind Apache for one site, and a custom java proxy for another site (don't ask). ZServer is not exposed to anything except the servers running Apache and the Java proxy. All the zope processes were still running, CPU usage was low (almost nil for python), * there was plenty of free physical memory swap. Yet Zope was not responding to requests. A look at the access logs revealed that zope had not logged anything since the time we noticed the outage. Nothing unusual before that except AltaVista crawling our site (a measly 2 requests / second). A restart seemed to fix everything, though one of the zeo servers went down again (same symptoms) about 20 minutes after starting. Restarted it again and both servers have been fine for hours now. This seems to be rare; I haven't seen it before on this particular server, but I saw a similar wedge on our dev machine about 3 weeks ago. I've looked at ALL the logs (access log, zeo log, zope stdout / stderr log) and found nothing at all unusual, just the aforementioned AltaVista crawl and a couple of RAM Cache errors from non-pickleable objects that I need to dis-associate from the cache. But none of this is new. Is it time for Big M? WOuld that give me anything useful? * this does not sound like other zope spins I have heard of, in which python eats 99% CPU indefinitely due to (probably) an application error. see for example: http://www.zopezen.org/Members/zopista/News_Item.2003-01-28.1025 -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's CAPTAIN STETOSCOPE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] What makes Zope twirl?
On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 10:06:55AM -0500, Shane Hathaway wrote: You have to keep it in perspective. Spin prevention is a small part of the stability equation. Zope is quite stable--if it weren't, CBS, SGI, and others wouldn't use it. Indeed. To put this in perspective, I have had exactly 1 spin on a production zope system since Jan 1. My group has had *several* BEA server crashes in the same time. I consider Zope to be much more reliable than BEA. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's LORD ORIGINATOR I LOVE YOU! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Server Control
On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 10:32:44AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there is any interest in a framework that could provide the underlying functionality to multiple UI front-ends, as well as automated stuff like alerts/monitoring, I would certainly be interested in using and contributing to development of such a beast. Oooh! Oooh! One more: build in a window with a python prompt that connects straight in to a ZEO debugging session ( (possibly remotely). -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's BETA CAPTAIN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Server Control
On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 03:16:46PM -0500, Shane Hathaway wrote: Okay, I added some features to the mockup: http://hathaway.freezope.org/Images/controller_snapshot2.png I dig it. (clicking on the mockup buttons) Ungh. Can't seem to make it work. (drool drool) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's AMERICAN TWIN THE MAYOR OF REVENGE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Bare except dangerous to ZODB? was Re: [Zope-dev] Accept-Charset hearders causing 500 internal server error.[correct but not lenient]
On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 06:11:15PM -0200, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:
Please, please, please, don't use generic except:. They can cause ZODB
corruption if they catch ConflictErrors.
Can anyone else confirm or deny???
If true, it needs to be much more widely publicized!
$ cd /usr/src/Zope-2.6.1-src/lib/python/Products/
$ find . -name *py -exec grep -H except: {} \; | wc -l
170
well, this is all stuff that comes with Zope, hopefully
they have been vetted... but then there's all these
3rd-party products:
$ cd $INSTANCE_HOME/Products
$ find . -name *py -exec grep -H except: {} \; | wc -l
133
Great, so there's at least 133 things to examine to see if they
could catch a ConflictError. And I only wrote about 15 of those.
The rest could be very time-consuming to audit.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope-dev] Multiple author and reviewer roles in Zope CMF
On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 03:20:39PM -0200, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: Local Roles rule and should have more visible placement in the Security tab... I constantly forget that it exists :) While we're on the subject - are local roles acquired in subfolders? Hmm, maybe I should file that as a Feature Request bug. +1 -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's JANITORIAL-BROOM-NINJA ANDREA KEG! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Multiple author and reviewer roles in Zope CMF
On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 11:14:18AM +1100, Adrian van den Dries wrote: On February 12, Paul Winkler wrote: While we're on the subject - are local roles acquired in subfolders? Yes, to the point that globals roles are actually redundant, but serve as an optimisation of a local role at the same level as your userfolder. thanks, that's good to know. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ULTRA BONOBO FIGHTER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
has anybody ever set up a site with a large number of roles? we're contemplating a security model for our app that might lead to ~ 100 Roles within a year, possibly thousands within the next 5 years. (Outline of the actual problem is at the end of this message) (The users and roles will be managed in LDAP, by the way; we plan to use LDAPUserFolder for this and not do any user or role administration in Zope.) I seem to recall the Zope Book or some other text advising against large numbers of roles, but IIRC that was only because of the UI. Obviously the ZMI default Security tab will not scale. I think I can replace that without too much trouble: possibly have the main page list only the roles vertically, with each one being a link to manage_roleForm as it is currently. As the number of roles grows very large this main page could be broken into batches if necessary. And of course there'd be a link to another page with a list of permissions to manage, and each of those would link to manage_permissionForm. i'm also thinking to use checkboxes as the current UI is too easy to unselect everything by accident. The question is, if I can solve the interface issues, are there other reasons not to have hundreds or thousands of roles? It seems to me that there should not be performance issues, since I assume that finding the current user's roles is just a dictionary lookup which should scale pretty well... we're not talking millions of roles here, and each user will have only a handful of roles. comments? more about our scenario: * We must anticipate users at hundreds of locations * there might be 10 or so users at each location * permissions can be grouped pretty well into tasks, but are specific to a location - permission to do a task at one location must not mean permission at all locations. To me this suggests several Roles per location, corresponding to the grouped tasks at that location. * each user might work from several different locations * each user might need different permissions when working at different locations * We have multiple applications, not all in zope, so LDAP is looking attractive. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2003 at 02:24:10PM +0100, Oliver Bleutgen wrote: With locations, do you mean physical locations of the clients (i.e. IP-adresses), or the locations of objects inside zope (i.e. /department1, /department2 etc.)? Both. Let's call them sites instead of locations, because they're physical sites: a discrete physical resource that our users need to manage. One user may have certain permissions at one of these sites, and different permissions at another. Unfortunately this is a required feature. It's also true that there may be specific content and applications in zope which correspond to a specific physical site, but not to the whole group of sites. and that's why zope needs to be involved with such a complex security model. example: Three physical sites, 1 2 and 3. Three tasks, X Y and Z. task X involves reading some class of data. task Y involves reading some other class of data. task Z involves writing some class of data. Two users, A and B. User A working at site 1 performs tasks X and Y. User A working at site 2 performs tasks Y and Z. User A working at site 3 cannot do anything. User B working at site 1 cannot do anything. User B working at site 2 performs task X. User B working at site 3 performs tasks X, Y, and Z. The solution we are considering is to have one role per site per task. If we were to name the roles after the site and task identifiers, we'd end up with something like: User A has roles 1X, 1Y, 2Y, 2Z User B has roles 2X, 3X, 3Y, 3Z ... but this obviously leads to an explosion of roles. e.g. 10 tasks * 200 sites = 2000 roles. Hence my original question. :) Bear in mind that we do not intend to do any of the user or role management in Zope; that would all be done in LDAP, and it would be officially Not My Problem. ;-) So all I'd need to do in Zope would be to assign permissions on particular folders to one or more of these 2000-some roles. So I'd need to write a security UI for the ZMI that can handle this well, because the default one cannot. We've also discussed the possibility of making this modified zope security UI available publically, if there is community interest. Does anybody actually like the one huge security grid? Try adding a couple roles to a CMF site and it already gets a bit unwieldy... The other possibility I've considered is a custom UserFolder which assigns the user's roles dynamically depending on what physical site they are working on (which we can always find out). This seems less bulky - many fewer roles from Zope's perspective - but i'm concerned about introducing security bugs that might go unnoticed, and I've never written a UserFolder so I don't know how long it would take. And I'm worried about session issues - if user A is doing some remote work for site 1 and then switches to site 2, would all of his roles be updated immediately and correctly? And we may need to allow a user to work on two sites *simultaneously* which would not be possible in this model. -- Paul Winkler www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 12:41:01PM +0100, Oliver Bleutgen wrote: From that I gather that your sites don't map 1:1 to objects into zope, so that you cannot use local roles for that, right? E.g, there are methods like doTaskX(location,...), where the permission to execute that method depend on location, and location is not an object inside zope. That is correct. Well, for me roles are just a simplification/optimization for getting permissions of a user (for an object) for the sake of easier management. From the mapping user_id - set of permissions, we go to user_id - set of roles - set of permissions, where the last mapping is defined by mappings of the form role - set of permissions. This works, because for typical situations, you just need to define a handful of roles. i'm with you so far... Since your application might not be suited for that scheme, it might be worth throwing out roles altogether. How about creating a role for each user (i.e. user user_id get's just the role user_id, instead of creating a role for for each possible (task,location) tuple. When creating a new user, the admin would have to just assign the permissions, instead of roles. This task could be made easier by creating template permission sets. Interesting idea... tell me if I'm wrong, but I see two obvious problems with this approach: 1) for one-role-per-user: we'd have to visit the security management for N objects in Zope and adjust the permissions every time we add a user. Whereas in my proposal, we only need to do that every time we add a site or change the tasks, which happens much less frequently. 2) for one-role-per-user, changing a user's privileges means wanding around the ZMI setting permissions on N objects. Whereas in my scheme, we can do that in one place (LDAP) by adding or removing a role or two. You might wind up with less roles and I bet administration is a lot easier. my guess is that in our case, the number of roles would be comparable. 200 sites * 10 tasks = 2000 roles 200 sites * 10 users = 2000 roles -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 09:02:24PM +0100, Dieter Maurer wrote: I think (not sure, though) that Zope has the following time complexity for permission checking: If a user has u roles and a permission is allowed for a roles, then Zope checks for each of the u roles whether it is in the list of a roles. That's correct, I just found this in lib/python/AccessControl/User.py, in the definition of allowed: user_roles = self.getRoles() for role in object_roles: if role in user_roles: if self._check_context(object): return 1 return None (_check_context ensures that the object is not acquired from some other context where this user doesn't exist.) The complexity is u * a whith can be too high for large u and a. Indeed... and object_roles seems likely to be bigger than user_roles (in general, but drastically moreso in my scenario). which means that it's quite likely we'd iterate for quite some time before findign a match. It is easy to optimize this to u + a (via a dictionary), then thousands of roles should not be a problem. would that mean you have to build a (potentially huge) dictionary every time? I'd greatly appreciate it if you could expand on this suggestion. Thanks! -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 07:18:21PM -0300, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: I don't think a multitude of roles is the way to go. The way your problem sounds, you need users being allowed/forbiden to do certain tasks depending on which part of the site they are. This is what local-roles are for: parameterizing the permissions of a user based on the location of the objects inside Zope. Yes, except that Oliver hit the nail on the head when he said: From that I gather that your sites don't map 1:1 to objects into zope, so that you cannot use local roles for that, right? E.g, there are methods like doTaskX(location,...), where the permission to execute that method depend on location, and location is not an object inside zope. However you do mention that you need to manage this centrally, especially since this information won't be used by Zope alone (and even if it was, you need centralized administration of these local roles, something that Zope doesn't give you, unless you consider Zope central :-), which I think you don't, because you consider LDAP central. Is this correct?). yes. So I think you need dynamically calculated local roles. This can be achieved by a user folder that returns a user object that overrides .getRolesInContext(object) to take the location (or any other attribute, such as an acquired site) of object and check it against your central authorization source (eg. LDAP). hmmm... now i'm leaning back this way again. some quick testing with a large number of roles (10,000 added via a ZEO debug session) reveals that performance does indeed suck with that many roles. i could pursue the optimization that Dieter suggested but i'm no longer sure that I want to; the lots of roles idea was a lot more attractive when I thought it would be only a UI issue. Instead it looks like I'd have to make substantial changes in lib/python/AccessControl and there's a few more thousand lines of code in there which I haven't even looked at yet. exUserFolder has had modifications to allow construction of authentication sources that override user.getRolesInContext, but none of its default auth sources use this so far. Hope I made some sense :-) I think so. This stuff makes my head hurt. :) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 11:33:54PM +0100, Dieter Maurer wrote: Paul Winkler wrote at 2003-2-24 16:27 -0500: ... It is easy to optimize this to u + a (via a dictionary), then thousands of roles should not be a problem. would that mean you have to build a (potentially huge) dictionary every time? I'd greatly appreciate it if you could expand on this suggestion. Even when you create the dictionary anew each time, it will have (almost) u+a complexity. However, the dict might be cachable in volatile variables (i.e. _v_ variables). good idea, thanks. As it is not my problem, I am a bit reluctant to search for optimazation possibilities. understandable... for anyone else who's interested, i just found this by Alex Martelli: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52303 -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 06:33:16PM +, Florent Guillaume wrote: Leonardo Rochael Almeida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I think you need dynamically calculated local roles. This can be achieved by a user folder that returns a user object that overrides .getRolesInContext(object) to take the location (or any other attribute, such as an acquired site) of object and check it against your central authorization source (eg. LDAP). Note that you'll also want to change validate() if you go that route. It has a short-circuited version of getRolesInContext in it. I'm now looking into doing this... and i haven't found what you mean. there are a bunch of validates() in various modules in AccessControl, which are you talking about? ]$ grep def validate( * 2 /dev/null AuthEncoding.py:def validate(reference, attempt): AuthEncoding.py:def validate(self, reference, attempt): AuthEncoding.py:def validate(self, reference, attempt): AuthEncoding.py:def validate(self, reference, attempt): SecurityManager.py:def validate(self, accessed=None, container=None, name=None, value=None, User.py:def validate(self, request, auth='', roles=_noroles): User.py:def validate(self, request, auth='', roles=_noroles): ZopeSecurityPolicy.py:def validate(self, accessed, container, name, value, context, cAccessControl.c: /*| def validate(self, accessed, container, name, value, context are you sure it's not BasicUser.allowed() that you mean? there's a comment in there about checking roles manaully rather than with getRolesInContext... -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Declaring Dependencies for XML documents (Was: HowTo Improve Cache Coherency for RAM/Disk Cache Manager...?)
On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 02:32:31PM -0500, Shane Hathaway wrote: Ah, but you might have something there. What if there were a cache manager that simply dropped its contents whenever anything changes in ZODB? You could associate nearly all scripts and templates with that cache manager without any fear of stale cache entries. For many sites, it could be an instant win. interesting idea. there's certainly plenty of sites, though, where the cache would get invalidated so often that the cache would be of limited value. e.g. a busy squishdot-type site, or many CMF sites. and on those kind of sites, the busiest times are when you most need the cacheing... but the simplicity is certainly appealing... and in my case, i have a CMF site where this would likely be quite useful since the public never logs in, only our content management team, and we tend to make changes on dev servers and push them to production in a big bunch. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Vote] PEP308 voting began
On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 03:21:57PM -0600, Evan Simpson wrote: Is this worth a robust implementation, ZPT folks? maybe, but i'd rather first wait and see how the PEP goes. it would suck to have to constantly deal with two totally different flavors of ternary. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Security internals, was Re: [Zope-dev] LOTS of roles?
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 08:56:59AM +1100, Adrian van den Dries wrote: (/me revisits LDAPUserFolder) Looks like the work is already done for you anyway: allowed() and friends check if the context has an attribute acl_satellite, and queries it for any additional roles, and it even keeps a cache. !! OMG !!! thank you - for some obscure reason it never would have occurred to me in a million years that LDAPUserFolder already does this. Well, duh. Huzzah open-source software! Amen! -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Vote] PEP308 voting began
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 07:33:44AM +0100, Joachim Werner wrote: If I understood the intentions of ZPT right one of the ideas was to get rid of too much application logic in the template. But currently ZPT seems to be extended to become very similiar in functionality to DTML. I'd prefer to see an approach where Python is used wherever it makes sense and ZPT is kept as simple and stupid as possible. +sys.maxint ugly python expressions in ZPT is to me a clear signal that you need to refactor and that's a GOOD THING. And refactoring is easy when you can just start by copy / pasting the python expressions into a Script. If they were some new-fangled if: then: else: syntax in TAL, you'd have to rewrite from scratch... and we're right back in the mess we got into with DTML: the poor developer is forced to learn many ways of doing the same thing. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com look! up in the sky! it's secretary The Archer of Doom (randomhero courtesy isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Proposed installation changes for review
A few questions / concerns listed below, otherwise it looks fine to me... On Mon, Mar 10, 2003 at 04:41:48PM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: debug mode does this still toggle a whole bunch of things? production installation (on/off) what's this mean? network servers (http, dav, ftp, monitor, etc) is this where you set the ports? One thing I didn't see in your list is a way to extend the products path (currently I do that with $PRODUCTS_PATH). We need that. One more question: Does zopectl.py always detach from the terminal (booo) or not (yay) ? Or does it behave like z2.py and this depends on debug mode (booo) ? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Proposed installation changes for review
On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 12:11:25PM +1100, Adrian van den Dries wrote: Debug mode needs to be broken out into directives for its real effects. +L -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ULTRA PENGUIN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Proposed installation changes for review
On Mon, Mar 10, 2003 at 10:31:13PM -0500, Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote: Detaching, or daemonizing, will be a separate configuration parameter from everything else. great, that is exactly what i really want. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's GARGANTUAN SKULL OF THE REVOLUTION! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Proposed installation changes for review
On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 04:25:09PM -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote: Oops, I stand corrected. But Zope 2.7 does include ZEO! Very good! But in that case, shouldn't the new Zope 2.7 install and startup stuff support it? Well, in a typical installation, you won't be running ZEO on the same machine as Zope, right? ZEO has its own install and config stuff, which is very similar to that for Zope, but ZEO is not installed as part of the main Zope install. i suppose it's not typical but we run zeo on all our systems including the dev boxes, because * we like to have the same environment everywhere for sanity's sake * interactive debugging is very cool and has saved my butt more than once. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's FAT BOY! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Proposed installation changes for review
On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 10:01:53AM -0500, Dan L. Pierson wrote: I don't see an equivalent to ./zctl.py debug anywhere. This starts up an interactive Python as a ZEO client with ZServer and Zope imported and app = Zope.app(). I use it constantly. Please? +1. I also use zctl.py debug nearly every day. of course it's just a convenience, but it's an important convenience because nearly every document i can find on debugging Zope says roughly ...and of course you can use ZEO, but that's beyond the scope of this article... -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] How (in)secure is Zope?
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 09:39:02PM -0500, Tres Seaver wrote: Now let me describe another configuraton, running in production now for years (one process in the cluster had an uptime of 400 days at a recent hardware-induced reboot): - Two Zope application servers run behind a load balancer and an Apache proxy (non-caching), serving requests against data in a shared storage server. - The server permits through-the-web registration, with minimal identity check (only a valid e-mail address. As of this writing, there are 18000+ user accounts. - Users of the site get a member folder where they can create templates, Python scripts, and content within the ZODB. Some minimal workflow exists, controlling basically whether the user's content is included in site searches. Hmmm, I wonder what this site is. ;-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's GIRL ATHON! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Versions: should they die?
To anyone not following the Problem committing zope 'version' objects thread on [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's been proposed that Versions should be at least stamped in the ZMI with big warnings, or possibly disabled altogether. Numerous users have been bit by the fact that versions basically do not work as advertised, leading in various cases to zodb corruption or work that can't be saved. There are other security issues that Oliver Bleutgen raised privately which I won't state here. Comments? Could we get at least some warnings in the ZMI before 2.6.2 final? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE COSMIC! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] funky side-effects, possible bug in HTTPRequest.py
On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 03:07:18AM -0700, Jamie Heilman wrote: Anyway, it was a learning experience for me, but I'm not convinced this isn't a bug. What do you think? From the POV of a poor web monkey, my opinion is that this is purely awful. It's the kind of thing that can easily waste hours of debug time. I was just saying to Andy McKay yesterday that sometimes I think zope 2 is designed around the principle of greatest consternation rather than the principle of least suprise. Case in point. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ANTHROPOLOGIST MAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Patching object class
On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 04:56:26PM +0200, Florent Guillaume wrote: I have the need to update some persistent objects in a ZODB to change their class. One use case comparable to the one I have would be to change all objects of type Folder to OrderedFolder. To do that, I envisionned finding all thoses objects and doing ob.__class__ = OrderedFolder ob._p_changed = 1 Would this work ? See the thread Renaming a product just a few days ago. The conclusion was that this would not work. If not, what other hack could I do ? The idea being that I don't want to recreate all the objects. You might not have a choice. A conversion script might take a while to run and your ZODB might get a bit more bloated, but otherwise, it'll work fine. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ULTRA BULLET FROGMAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] WebDAV interoperability event
I just stumbled across this... I think it would be really cool if there was a zope presence. http://www.webdav.org/other/interop03/ -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's PORPOISE MADE OF BUTTER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 03:59:58PM +1000, Richard Jones wrote:
Say a method listFilesByUser returns a list of (user, [files])
it'd be nice to be able to::
tal:repeat=user,files here/listFilesByUser
or similar. Currently we would have to use a python: expression to manually
unpack the tuple. Kinda yucky.
Any comments?
hmm... so you want to extend the language so you can write:
span tal:repeat=user,files here/listFilesPerUser
div tal:content=user
user goes here
/div
div tal:repeat=file files
tal:content=file
file goes here
/div
/span
I disagree... There's probably a million little things that
would be nice in ZPT. Rather than feature-creep TAL/TALES, which
are pretty simple currently, let's leave the heavy lifting to
our favorite tried-and-true general-purpose language.
In this case, consider a trivial change to (or wrapper around)
listFilesByUser to make it return a sequence of dictionaries
like {'user': some_user, 'files': (file1, file2...)}
Then your zpt could look like:
span tal:repeat=fpu here/listFilesPerUser
div tal:content=fpu/user
user goes here
/div
div tal:repeat=file fpu/files
tal:content=file
file goes here
/div
/span
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's TWINKLY-GIANT WOMAN!
(random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 10:48:10AM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: Think of prefixes as site-wide, generally useful Python scripts. That's fine and dandy... but please please PLEASE don't let that be the only way to call them. Put them in ZTUtils, or Products.PythonScripts.standard, or someplace generally available. What bothers me is the tendency in z2 to improve one tool with little features that would be nice to have, adding functionality that is either not provided elsewhere, or is provided elsewhere in a totally different way. So please, if there's new functionality you want to add, consider: how would I use this functionality from a script? from dtml? from a product? Quite often some API returns something that's intuitively easy to present, but ZPT's syntax makes it somewhat difficult to present. For example, it should not be necessary to write a Python script or expression every time you want to format the number 5 as $5.00. No script needed, and I *like* that zpt encourages python expressions. Makes it easy to refactor things out into Scripts when you realize that your page template is doing too much work. In this case, the expression you need is documented (although it really needs an explicit example) in the Zope Book, API Reference: span tal:define=pss modules/Products/PythonScripts/standard div tal:content=python:pss.dollars_and_cents(5.0) $1.00 /div /span You could argue against the define at the beginning, but I think of those as being analogous to python import statements: before I get started, I'm going to give myself convenient access to the stuff I need. You could also argue that we need a non-US-centric currency formatter, and I agree; but I say again that we need it everywhere and not only via some special syntax in ZPT. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's OUR ROCKET PERVERT! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 11:07:20AM -0500, Evan Simpson wrote: ... This would allow options/a_mapping/key:items/index:0 rather than python:options['a_mapping']['items'][0]. Why is that an improvement? surely it's not saving 3 characters that makes the new syntax worthwhile... options/a_mapping/by:key/items/by:index/0. do you find this easier to read or write than the python version? I guess I don't understand the goal. Are we trying to make it so that zpt authors don't have to know any python? I really think that's a mistake. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's RED ORIGAMI SNOWMAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 02:04:51PM -0400, Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote: There are those that consider using python: expressions in ZPT should be discouraged, primarily because it's yet another syntax for a web developer to learn. I'm not necessarily one of them, but I am sympathetic with that reasoning. I'm definitely not one of them. I am sympathetic with the impulse - don't place too many burdens on the web developer - but I think that in this case it's misguided. I don't mean to be harsh, but I feel very strongly about this: I think it is wrong to think that one can be an effective web developer with zope and never have to write a single python expression. WHen I started using zope, lots of people were trying to build entire applications with nothing but DTML and propertysheets and the like. The result was some really horrid DTML. I am still maintaining some of this gunk, and I'm really looking forward to the day I can finally rewrite our oldest running zope apps. The solution to DTML-from-hell was to refactor the logic into scripts written in - guess what - python. This is now widely regarded as best practice for quick through-the-web scripting and site development in zope. I always thought that one of the key design goals for TAL/TALES was to be very minimal and *force* the developer to offload anything difficult into python. I think ZPT is successful partly because of this feature. My concern is that ZPT will grow so many conveniences that it will become easier to abuse it in the same way that DTML has been widely abused. New zope developers will then be more tempted to avoid python (i don't have time to learn another language) and with the best intentions will do themselves a serious disservice: a lot of things will still be unnecessarily difficult compared to using python, and a lot of logic will be in templates where it doesn't belong. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's LORD MC-FJUKER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 05:15:48PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote:
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 02:04:51PM -0400, Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
There are those that consider using python: expressions in ZPT should
be discouraged, primarily because it's yet another syntax for a web
developer to learn.
I'm not necessarily one of them, but I am sympathetic with that
reasoning.
That's not my reasoning either. :-)
My feeling is that you should avoid mixing syntaxes in a single
document. The more syntaxes you mix, the more perfection you require of
developers.
Ah. yes, i think there's something to that.
Take the following code:
pre tal:content=python: text.replace('\\n', 'br /') /
This code has at least four errors (one XML, one HTML, one ZPT, one
Python--can you spot them?),
heheh, good example... took me a while to find 4 :-)
but it will work anyway without complaint.
This is hard to debug because it requires complete understanding and
perfect spelling of four languages at once: XML, ZPT, HTML, and Python.
yeah, that sucks. Maybe I'm just upset that you want to remove my
favorite of the four. :-) Given the context, of course, python is
the only one that's a candidate for removal from the template.
I wholeheartedly agree that newcomers should learn Python as well as
ZPT, but there should be a clean separation of the two.
I think I'd have to try rewriting some of my complex templates with
no python expressions whatsoever before I'd know if I agree with you.
I have a slightly different concern. You're concerned that people will
use path expressions when they could use Python expressions. I'm
concerned that people will use *any* kind of complicated expressions
instead of Python code blocks. To me, the choice between path
expression and Python expression isn't very meaningful; either way I'm
putting logic in a template, and if it's too complicated, it doesn't
belong there. The better goal is to move complicated logic out of
templates and into Python code blocks, don't you think?
Yes, I do. But I've found that when I write templates, there is a typical
progression:
1. Start with a simple path expression:
request/foo
2. Whoops, now I need to do something a bit more involved:
python:here.do_something(request.foo, here.something_else, ...)
3. ugh, it's getting too long -
move the python expression into foo_script and change
the tales expression to:
here/foo_script
The current proposals aim to reduce the need to go to step 2.
Nice goal - it is true much of my ugliest template code has
been caused by pushing 2 too far. But I find that going from step 2
to step 3 is so easy that I don't mind refactoring and it's
usually very quick.
However... it should be noted that step 2 can be completely bypassed.
There's nothing preventing me from going from 1 directly to 3.
I only use 2 because it's there :-) Thinking more about it, it
occurs to me that python expressions in TALES provide a huge hole
in the separation of presentation from logic.
Consider the psychological factor - python expressions are
convenient sometimes. Many of us do not have the willpower to
resist. :-) Adding features to TALES doesn't change this, it
gives us another brand of rope to hang ourselves with.
I know of two ways to avoid writing complicated expressions in templates:
1. Move complicated expressions into Python code blocks.
2. Provide a simpler equivalent for complicated expressions.
what about:
0. make complicated expressions illegal
I'm only half-joking. Why are we arguing for adding more stuff to TALES
rather than removing python expressions? Can someone think of an
example that *requires* a python expression and can't be done with a
path expression and a Script? If so, is it solvable by improving
the interaction between templates and Scripts instead of adding
features to Templates?
I seriously doubt this would meet community approval for zope 2,
there's too much existing code that would break. but maybe it should be
considered (if it hasn't been already) for zope 3.
Prefixes in the middle of path expressions attacks #2.
hm. i guess i would agree if I thought any of the proposals actually
are significantly simpler! Let's stick to your first point -
python in ZPT is undesirable because ZPT already makes you deal with
3 languages (assuming the output is html and not just XML).
But since we are stuck with 3 languages in one file,
why do we want to make one of them more complex than it already is?
And since we know that we very often need a fourth language in another file,
why not leverage that capability to keep the template super-simple?
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 06:15:46PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote: (snip) I think I'd have to try rewriting some of my complex templates with no python expressions whatsoever before I'd know if I agree with you. (snip) I only use 2 because it's there :-) Thinking more about it, it occurs to me that python expressions in TALES provide a huge hole in the separation of presentation from logic. I didn't mean to sound schizo... i'm just thinking out loud! :-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's MOSTLY-PENGUIN WEARING A HAT! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 11:00:09AM +0200, Jean Jordaan wrote:
Perhaps it's worthwhile for this thread to have a look at
http://www.eby-sarna.com/pipermail/transwarp/2003-July/000606.html
http://www.eby-sarna.com/pipermail/transwarp/2003-July/000607.html
and following to see what Phillip Eby is cooking up.
The templates he proposes have only two or three attributes,
keeping logic rigorously out of the template.
Very interesting idea. Here's an excerpt:
I think that ZPT still embed code in a web page, and that there's a better
alternative. If you've seen PSO (pso.sf.net), Twisted's Woven, or even JSP
taglibs (though that's a bit of a stretch), you'll have a better idea of
what PWT (peak.web.templates) looks like. Here's an example, straight from
the test suite:
body
h1 model=foo view=textTitle Goes Here/h1
ul model=bar view=list
li pattern=listItem view=text/li
/ul
/body
'view' attributes identify the object factory used to create the tag,
'model' attributes are a path to the data to be used, and 'pattern'
attributes identify parameters that are supplied to the nearest containing
'view', rather like a METAL macro slot (except that views are written in
Python, rather than being templates, although I intend to make it possible
to use a template as a view, too). Views are looked up in a property
namespace so you can configure access to arbitrary view components that
your app (or anybody else) supplies
I don't totally grok it (an object factory creates a tag?
does he mean the contents of the tag? and since they're factories written
in python shouldn't they be called something other than 'views'? like
maybe 'factory'??). But, odd terminology aside, it's compellingly simple.
I guess that the 'view' and the 'model' only have to agree on an
interface ('pattern' names).
--
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Re: [Zope-dev] breaking apart INSTANCE_HOME.
On Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 09:52:14AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: - You can specify in the config file any number of Products directory paths and these will be knitted together into the Products pseudopackage. Sounds good. One thing to watch out for - this needs to be tested with CMF, specifically with the FilesystemDirectoryView product. FSDV does not (as of zope 2.6) find its filesystem content if it is anywhere other than under lib/python/Products or $INSTANCE_HOME/Products. It is the only product I've tried that doesn't work anywhere else on $PRODUCTS_PATH. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's UGLY-HAIRDRESSER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Functional testing of export/import?
I'm trying to write a functional test that verifies that an instance
of my Product works correctly after it's been exported and re-imported.
I'm stuck on how to give the test object a valid _p_oid which is needed
to do the export.
Background:
This Product is a dynamic content object for CMF. Its behavior depends on
another CMF type instances, which it keeps a path to. So I need to ensure
that things work even when one or both objects have moved. I've got
moving renaming handled well and now I want to test import/export.
So my test suite sets up a dummy CMF instance. I do this by swiping
stuff from the CMFCore and CMFDefault tests; I subclass SecurityRequestTest
and then do
manage_addCMFSite(self.root, 'cmf_test_site' )
self.site = self.root.cmf_test_site
I've also got a portal folder in the site which I keep a handy
reference to as self.fol1.
All tests are passing, now I move on to writing the export / import tests.
Let's say the object I want to export is self.cmf_test_site.fol1.cp1.
I have a shorthand reference to this stored as self.cp1.
So I think the first thing I need to do is get the export data
like this:
data self.fol1.manage_exportObject('cp1', download=1)
... and once that works, I'll use the same data to do an import.
But the export fails. Using pdb and browsing some source I've learned
that cp1 needs a _p_jar and _p_oid in order to be exported.
The _p_jar I've already dealt with in my move / rename tests, by swiping
a hack from CMFCore/tests/test_portalFolder.py:
id = self.cp1.getId()
# W! must get _p_jar set
old, self.cp1._p_jar = self.cp1._p_jar, self.root._p_jar
try:
data = self.fol1.manage_exportObject(id, download=1)
finally:
self.cp1._p_jar = old
That seems to work fine.
But now I'm stuck on _p_oid. How do I give the object a valid one?
I'm sure I can't just use the same trick and swipe the _p_oid of the app
root :-P
I must say that using pyunit to write functional tests for zope 2 / CMF
is a royal pain. It requires too much knowledge of implementation.
(why should i need to worry about _p_foo???)
Also I've found that if there's an error in your class' setUp(),
it can cause the test to hang and never show you a traceback.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 06:22:38PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: Paul Winkler wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 11:07:20AM -0500, Evan Simpson wrote: ... This would allow options/a_mapping/key:items/index:0 rather than python:options['a_mapping']['items'][0]. Why is that an improvement? Personally, I find it much easier to read... I find the opposite: Assuming that the reader understands python, s/he has to perform the mental translation anyway in order to understand how this expression uses the objects it refers to. Assuming that the reader does NOT understand any python, it doesn't make much sense. The immediate questions arise: What's a key? What's an index? What's the difference between them? How do I know when to use one or the other? And, how do you answer those questions without talking about python data structures? I wonder what non-python'ers would think? well, that's a very good and relevant question, but I doubt we will find them on this mailing list :-) I would really like to know. I guess I don't understand the goal. Are we trying to make it so that zpt authors don't have to know any python? For me, that would be ideal... I really think that's a mistake. What leads you to believe that? The appeal of TALES path expressions lies in their simplicity. I don't want them to feature-creep into a general purpose programming language. The more complex these expressions get, the more work a zope developer (e.g. someone developing new content types, services, etc.) has to expend on mentally translating between different languages, which is always an opportunity to get something wrong as we've already discussed. We all know that Python has a near-unbeatable record as an easy-to-use, well-designed, and downright fun language. It has a great reputation as a first language. These new proposals for TALES path expressions do not have any such track record, so I am naturally skeptical that they are going to beat python at one of its strengths: readability and novice-friendliness. Consider what happened with Zope 2 and DTML: the templating language had enough features that novice developers often got themselves into trouble by writing excessively complex templates with embedded logic. The zope 2 tutorial and most other available documents gave the impression that you didn't need to learn python to get things done in Zope. Since the addition of ZPT and Python Scripts, things have improved enormously; but I remember a time when the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list was full of questions like how do I do my complex task in DTML. It was easy to get your feet wet, and without clear explicit ways to use python, it was easy to fall off the continental shelf where suddenly nothing worked anymore and nothing made sense. So I am very wary of ZPT becoming Son of DTML From Hell, and that's what the proposed extensions smell like to me. To frame it as a practical question: how is the template author going to get something non-trivial done? Assuming that TALES python expressions are banned/discouraged/whatever, there are 3 choices: 1) The template author writes some auxiliary python code (whether this is a script or a Product or a Persistent Module or whatever). This is the case most familiar to me - I'm usually doing most of my work alone. In this case the author has to know both ZPT and python - but not both in the same document. 2) Stretch the capabilities of the template language so that no python is necessary anywhere. I think we agree that *currently* this is bad practice, when it's even possible. 3) Get somebody else to write the python code, and just refer to the code objects with TALES path expressions. This is what I think you are suggesting - yes? no? It's hard for me to imagine working strictly in this fashion, because in my limited experience I've never worked that way and I don't know anybody who does. *Do* people actually work this way? If you don't know any python, isn't it tempting to write some icky template code yourself instead of waiting for the code guy to have time to help you? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's USELESS MEGA BOY! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Functional testing of export/import?
On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 02:49:33PM -0400, Casey Duncan wrote: You can usually commit a subtransaction to get a _p_jar and oid (I think) set. You can still abort this at the end of the test to clean up. yep, this seems to work very nicely! Thanks Casey! def setUp(self): ... get_transaction().commit(1) ... def tearDown(self): ... get_transaction().abort(1) ... -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's EXTRA YELLOW BLOWER CHEESEMONGER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
that your class uses. When it's time for zope 3, most of your work will then consist of rewriting the wrapper (and maybe writing some zcml configuration file). In zope 3, the wrapper should hopefully be simpler than what you need for zope 2. At least, that's the theory :-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ROYAL ALTOIDS TIN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 04:43:21PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: Python expressions won't be banned. I will never consider them discouraged for all cases, either. There will always be a need for constructs like: div tal:condition=python: a == b.../div div tal:condition=python: (a and b) or c.../div ok. However, the following is quite bad: And quite common :-) Browse through some of the CMF skins... tal:x define=ss nocall:modules/Products/PythonScripts/standard a tal:attributes=href python: ss.url_quote(some_url) / /tal:x This is un-Pythonic in numerous ways. - You can't use the import statement. In fact, you can't use any statements at all--only expressions. - The nocall: prefix. - The name 'modules' is present automatically along with many other names that aren't in the Python builtins namespace. - Importing using a path expression. agreed on all 4. although, import is the only time I miss statements. - Binding a variable to a value without an equal sign. That took some getting used to. I don't know why this was chosen, but it seems a bit late to change it now. - You have to prefix Python expressions with python:. That's a feature! If we didn't have that, how would you know the difference between tal:replace=a/b and tal:replace=python:a/b Zope 2's method of slightly simplifying this is to write a two-line script and find it through implicit acquisition. The overhead of invoking a script is somewhat large, but here's what the template would look like anyway. a tal:attributes=href python: here.url_quote(some_url) / yes, this is about the best you can do currently. In fact, I quite like it. :) Zope 3 will not have implicit acquisition. In fact, no system but Zope 2 has implicit acquisition. That leaves us with no possible way to write the above statement in non-implicit Python! No matter what you do, you need some help from another kind of expression. Until recently, here was the way to write it in Zope 3. tal:x define=url_quote nocall:here/++acquire++url_quote a tal:attributes=href python: url_quote(some_url) / /tal:x That alternative is just as complicated and un-Pythonic as importing a module in a template. I can't think of a better way to write this given the limitations of Zope 2 ZPT, without the giant implicit acquisition band-aid. Can you? Zope 3's new alternative looks about like this: a tal:attributes=href here/format:url_quote / Where do you put the argument? I don't see some_url. To me, that's a vast improvment, and it's only one example. It also raises some new questions that are about on par with what would be needed to understand the zope 2 version: What kind of thingie is format:? Where can I find it if I want to learn what else it can do? What do I do if I want format:some_custom_format? How could I replace or augment the format thingie and not break any template that uses it? Not that it's bad to raise these questions ... I just want to point out that the answers are far from self-evident. You know what was actually wrong with DTML? The lack of Python Scripts. Without Python Scripts, everyone used DTML as a programming language. Once Python Scripts came around, DTML became a reasonable templating language again. If DTML used TALES expressions, it would be just as clean as ZPT. I think I just said this in another post :) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's MUZZY ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISTIC FJUKER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] simpler TALES. (was Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking)
On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 07:23:36PM -0300, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: But right now the choice between adding or not the proposed TALES extensions is a choice between having to explain what all those python concepts mean before or after the poor template guy got confused why certain things don't work as expected: * Why must I use a tal:define=something here/getSomeObject and later a tal:content=something/someAttribute instead of just tal:content=here/getSomeObject/someAttribute. you don't :) it's a convenience (less stuff to type if you access the object a lot) and/or an optimization (getSomeObject might be expensive). * Why does tal:content=request/form/items don't get me the items object that I'm expecting you lost me there. In order to get to the ideal world Paul wants (and that I want too), maybe we need to restrict the things that TALES can navigate. That would mean we'd need to chose between TALES path navigating dictionary keys or attribute access, but not both. Hm. Doesn't really matter - ObjectManager makes them equivalent anyway (except that some keys cannot be spelled as attributes, e.g. foo['bar.html']). Also, paths would not be able to call anything in the last segment. eh? so tal:content=here/some_method would no longer work? I don't really understand your proposal I'm afraid. On the other hand, we'd need to give python scripters the necessary tools, ex. before ZPT, I used to find it VERY anoying that I had to use the mapping attribute in DTML tags just because I couldn't create MyBrain objects thru python. PythonScripts should be able to generate the same kind of objects that ZCatalog and ZSQL queries generate. Not sure what you mean. You want to wrap Brains around something other than ZSQL results? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's TWITTY-PHYSICIAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 12:13:41PM -0500, Evan Simpson wrote: The explanation isn't that hard, at least for a user with a basic knowledge of data structures -- they have a basic knowledge of data structures but they can't be taught to write a python script in about the same amount of time? you usually use key: with a dictionary, and item: with a sequence. The exception is when you have an integer key in a dictionary. That exception does smell a bit funny... having to say here/some_dict/item:0 just feels odd. But I can't remember ever using integers as dictionary keys so it's probably not worth fussing over. :-) I hope that the list above makes the consistency clearer. actually it does help a bit, thanks. hmm. It's not horrible :-) I'm just still on the fence about whether we really need it. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's BUTCHER BROMO-BOTTLE CAP! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: simpler TALES. (was Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 12:19:35PM -0500, Evan Simpson wrote: Paul Winkler wrote: you don't :) it's a convenience (less stuff to type if you access the object a lot) and/or an optimization (getSomeObject might be expensive). I believe that his example referred to the case where the intermediate object must be called before path traversal can continue. ah, i see. hm, well if getSomeObject is a Python Script, it's called anyway and it can only deal with someAttribute in its traverse_subpath anyway. Hm. Doesn't really matter - ObjectManager makes them equivalent anyway (except that some keys cannot be spelled as attributes, e.g. foo['bar.html']). Not quite. Attribute access invokes acquisition, while item access never does, so getattr(foo, 'bar.html') may succeed where foo['bar.html'] fails. Ugh. I don't know how I've been using zope 2 this long without noticing that item access doesn't acquire. But i just checked and by golly, you're right. I have to say, that's pretty horrible. :-) Is that documented anywhere? I've never seen it if so. And getattr(foo, some.string.that's.not.a.valid.python.varname) is just aesthetically bad. :-\ yay zope 2... principle of most surprise wins again :-( -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's OVERLY PADDLE SADIST! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: simpler TALES. (was Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 02:06:13PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: Evan Simpson wrote: With prefixes, the simpler here/getSomeObject/call:/someAttribute gets the job done. FWIW, I'd write this as here/call:getSomeObject/someAttribute. I suppose it's possible to support both. really? How? If you support evan's version, then yours means call whatever 'here' refers to, and pass getSomeObject as an argument. One interesting difference is that my syntax says both get an attribute and call it, while yours says only call it. Mine is a method call, while yours is a function call. How would you pass arguments in your version? I'd say that passing arguments accounts for a very large percentage of my need to use TALES python expressions. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's UN-LIBIDO OMEGA! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: simpler TALES. (was Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 02:29:45PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: How would you pass arguments in your version? I'd say that passing arguments accounts for a very large percentage of my need to use TALES python expressions. If you need to pass arguments, use a Python expression. Python expressions are not on trial. You said in another post: My feeling is that you should avoid mixing syntaxes in a single document. So I'm getting mixed messages from you. :-) I was bringing up a common case that results in mixing syntaxes, and which won't be avoidable unless the new call: prefix allows arguments. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's CLOWN OF THE MOUNTAINS! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: simpler TALES. (was Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 04:49:19PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: I'm tired of this. Yes indeed :-) Do you have a better alternative to subpath prefixes? The constraints are tight: (snip) - You have to provide an easy way to access APIs. It's important for Zope 3. are you talking about things like z3 services? and/or zope 2 API stuff like foo.objectItems? - You have to provide a way to explicitly acquire. It's important for Zope 3! - You can't use Python statements in templates. right, expressions only... - Everyone is going to argue over your solution for months. really :-) I've tried very hard to invent a way to solve the problems with path expressions without changing TALES. I can't. So I gave myself the flexibility of using just one character that was reserved anyway in path expressions, and the solution fell out. If you want to look for a solution, consider using *only* Python expressions--no path expressions. You'll get a lot of mileage that way, but at the expense of syntax clashes. Who knows, you might find a pretty good solution. I think this is what I'm going to investigate. Who knows, I might find only bad solutions :-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE SCIENTIFIC KING LEAR ! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
ZEO caching, was Re: [Zope-dev] more Zope2.6 fun: ZEO client death.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 10:06:08AM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: Jim and PythonLabs put a bunch of work into optimizing ZEO cache validation earlier this year, and now it's quite speedy. Which reminds me... Is it expected that ZEO can take quite a while to show a new object on all clients? With zope 2.6.2b3, ZEO 2.0.2, I can reliably get this behavior: 1) browser 1 looking at foofolder on client 1 adds a new object /foofolder/bar. 2) browser 2 on client 2 visits /foofolder/bar. Not found. 3) browser 2 on client 2 flushes the browser cache, quits / restarts the browser, etc. /foofolder/bar again. Still not found. 3.5) Repeat step 3 intermittently for an hour (!). Not found. 4) client 2 is restarted. Browser 2 refreshes and immediately gets the expected object bar. This is clearly problematic. At what point is client 2 supposed to see the new object?? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's SADIST ITE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: ZEO caching, was Re: [Zope-dev] more Zope2.6 fun: ZEO client death.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 12:13:40PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: This is clearly problematic. At what point is client 2 supposed to see the new object?? Immediately. You are experiencing a bug. ;-) OK... is this a known bug? Is it a bug in ZEO or Zope or what? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's MAFIOSO LETTUCE-WAVER ! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: ZEO caching,was Re: [Zope-dev] more Zope2.6 fun: ZEO client death.
OK... more info... here's my setup. 1 ZEO server, 3 clients (client 1, client 2, client 3). client 1 is on the same physical machine as the server. client 2 is on a different machine, but close by on a high-bandwidth network. client 3 is on a third machine on the same network. If I make changes on client 1: they are not seen on client 2 OR client 3 until I flush the database cache on that client. If I make changes on client 2: they are immediately seen on client 1. client 3 does not see them until i flush its database cache. If I make changes on client 3: they are immediately seen on client 1. client 2 does not see them until i flush its database cache. I noticed that the system time on each machine was a bit off, but that doesn't seem to be the culprit; they're very close now, and it makes no difference which one is ahead of the other: I get the same behavior described above regardless of whether clients 2 and 3 are slightly ahead or slightly behind client 1. Next, will investigate ZEO logs as Shane suggested... -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's NEGA SOCK IN PARIS! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: simpler TALES. (was Re: TALES idea: tupleunpacking)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 06:42:39PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 04:49:19PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote:
Do you have a better alternative to subpath
prefixes? The constraints are tight:
(snip)
If you want to look for a solution, consider using *only* Python
expressions--no path expressions. You'll get a lot of mileage that way,
but at the expense of syntax clashes. Who knows, you might find a
pretty good solution.
This stuff is hard :-\ Attached is what I've been able to come up with.
(ducking)
--
Paul Winkler
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evan's original examples...
---
These first examples are pretty trivial, and can mostly be done today
as python expressions with no difficulty.
For the fmt: and var: examples, i'll just hand-wave, I think what I mean
is pretty clear...
Now for Evan's tricky examples:
options/foo/item:0 | request/foo/item:0 | default
data/stat/fmt:thousands_commas | string:No data.
My solution using Python expressions:
First of all, provide a namespace that provides access to
API stuff. We can argue later about how this can be named & organized.
This namespace is always available in ZPT, and can be imported
in Python Scripts.
Next, we provide a function that behaves a little bit like the
existing path() function -
given some names, for each successive pair it tries to find
foo[bar] and getattr(foo, bar) and if both fail, we don't raise the
AttributeError or KeyError - we just return false (more on this below).
This allows you to chain function calls with "or". TALES has to be
modified a bit for this to work as I intend, as described below.
This path lookup function should just take, as arguments, any number
of ids to look up. You can pass a sequence using the *args
notation. Note that since it just tries __getitem__ and __getattr__
at each step, it works fine with mappings (e.g. the request object).
I can't think of a good name so i'm calling it zget.
Examples:
original:
options/foo/item:0 | request/foo/item:0 | default
mine:
zget('options','foo')[0] or zget('request','foo')[0] or default
original:
data/stat/fmt:thousands_commas | string:No data.
mine:
zope.fmt.thousands_commas(zget('data','stat')) or 'No data'
Note a significant difference in this latter example: in Evan's version,
the thousands_commas call can be short-circuited if data/stat
does not exist, while in mine it cannot be avoided (it is
merely called on an empty string).
How this works: the "false" value returned by zget is a
bit special - it's a lightweight "null object".
e.g. __len__ returns 0, while __getitem__, __getattr__, and __call__
return None ... and __str__ (and __repr__?) returns ''. It would also
keep an _exception attribute which would be the exception that
led to its creation (e.g. the AttributeError).
TALES would then have to be modified such that if the end result of
a TALES _expression_ is one of these special null objects,
we re-raise its _exception. That way you still find out what the
missing item was.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: simpler TALES. (was Re: TALES idea: tupleunpacking)
blargh, sorry about the .htm extension and resulting MIME confusion... i forgot to rename it when i was done playing with it, even though it was only really an html file for the first 5 minutes. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reading contents of a Page Template
On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 03:05:44PM -0500, J Cameron Cooper wrote: The condition check is pretty primitive. Probably a better one would check for the presence of the objectValues method like tal:define=folderish nocall:item/objectValues tal:condition=folderish | nothing That won't work as intended, you'll usually be able to acquire objectValues from the parent folder. You might instead try: tal:condition=item/isPrincipiaFolderish | nothing -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's GEORGE ULTRA PENIS! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Can't build 2.6.2-b5 on Redhat 7.3
Like the subject says... python2.1 wo_pcgi fails...
this is the same python 2.1.3 that I built from source, and which
I used to build and run zope 2.6.1 for a few months now...
--
Building extension modules
/usr/local/bin/python2.1 setup.py build_ext -i
running build_ext
building 'AccessControl.cAccessControl' extension
gcc -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
-fPIC -I/zope/Zope-2.6.2b5-src/lib/Components/ExtensionClass/src
-I/usr/local/include/python2.1 -c AccessControl/cAccessControl.c -o
build/temp.linux-i686-2.1/cAccessControl.o
In file included from AccessControl/cAccessControl.c:54:
/zope/Zope-2.6.2b5-src/lib/Components/ExtensionClass/src/ExtensionClass.h:94:20:
Python.h: No such file or directory
/zope/Zope-2.6.2b5-src/lib/Components/ExtensionClass/src/ExtensionClass.h:95:20:
import.h: No such file or directory
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File wo_pcgi.py, line 45, in ?
if __name__=='__main__': main(sys.argv[0])
File wo_pcgi.py, line 33, in main
import build_extensions
File /zope/Zope-2.6.2b5-src/inst/build_extensions.py, line 24, in ?
do('%s setup.py build_ext -i' % sys.executable)
File /zope/Zope-2.6.2b5-src/inst/do.py, line 32, in do
if i and picky: raise SystemError, i
SystemError: 256
make: *** [all] Error 1
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's UBERMAESTRO DEPUTY SHERIFF KUMQUAT!
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can't build 2.6.2-b5 on Redhat 7.3
Never mind, operator error. Wasn't the python i thought it was... it was a binary copied from another machine and built with a different glibc apparently. On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 07:19:01PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote: Like the subject says... python2.1 wo_pcgi fails... (snip) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's CROTCHETY SUPER SNAIL-DOG! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Very severe memory leak
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 02:57:50PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: 2.6 is also intended to be compatible with Python 2.2. It's just that here at ZC we haven't gone through the rigorous analysis we've been planning. Hmm, come to think of it, the community could actually do that analysis. It wouldn't be terribly difficult. Any volunteers? Maybe. I'd really like to run with python 2.2. What is involved in the rigorous analysis? Is there a plan I could follow? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE BABY! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Why not ZODB 3.1.3 with Zope 2.6.2?
I downloaded the hidden 2.6.2b6 release (from http://zope.org/Products/Zope/2.6.2b6/Zope/view) and had a look in lib/python/ZODB/__init__.py, which gives its version as ZODB 3.1.2. Is there any reason it's not ZODB 3.1.3? Maybe just an oversight? I could easily check any ZODB-3.1.3 changes to the Zope-2.6 branch, unless somebody knows a reason not to do so. Also, why doesn't ZODB/Tools come with zope? There's some really handy stuff in there, some of which gets mentioned on the zope list from time to time; it would be nice if newbies could get hold of it easily. On a related note, NEWS.txt in ZODB 3.1.3 mentions that there is a new Tools/README.txt ... but it's not actually in the tarball :-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Help!!
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:30:11PM -0400, Todd Loomis, (SAIC) wrote: Paul, Thanks, however I've searched the mailing lists and found nothing. http://zope.nipltd.com/public/lists/zope-archive.nsf/Main?SearchView=Query=DeprecationWarning a lot of those are irrelevant - several will tell you the same thing I did. Also I consider this an error when Zope will not startup! This is just a warning. It *cannot* prevent zope from starting. Your problem is something else. You say zope is not starting... what happens when you try to start? What have you done to verify that zope isn't running? What platform are you on? What version of Zope? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE BOAT! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Newsletter: Issue 10
On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 09:46:52AM -0400, Gary Poster wrote: Python script support in TAL I'm not sure whether to be overjoyed or very afraid :-) IIRC, zope 3 does not currently have an equivalent to zope 2's Script (Python). Chris McDonough and I were going to consider this topic when we have time, but you know how that goes. Sorry if i'm flogging a dead horse, but: Think of the xp practice, refactor early and often. I'd like zope 3 to easily support that practice, whereas zope 2 sometimes hinders it. What I mean is: all ttw python code should be as compatible as possible. I don't want a situation analogous to zope 2 where python has to be written differently in different contexts (e.g. here vs. context vs. the overly magical _). Little variations like this mean that refactoring often necessitates some gratuitous rewriting, which increases the chances of breakage. And it means that zope 2 newbies who are new to python have an unnecessarily confusing introduction to the language, and pythonistas who are new to zope 2 may be frustrated (as I was) with the sometimes perlish experience of working with zope 2. Now, obviously it's not possible to reach from a Page Template into a z2-style Script (Python) and e.g. pull out a global variable, as is done in your embedded script example. Maybe that's a use case for the Persistent Modules which I've heard Jim talk about? But the goal I have in mind is that, aside from such inevitable scoping issues, python code is python code and can (ideally) be completely portable between templates, Scripts, and Persistent Modules. (disclaimer: i haven't looked at Persistent Modules so maybe they're not relevant to this discussion.) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's SENATOR'S WIFE DOOM! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] PythonLibraries Product
On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 09:50:51PM -0400, Tres Seaver wrote: For the filesystem representation: what if we just have two files for templates with libraries: 'foo.html' and 'foo.html.py'? Tools will like that better than either of the approaches which try to preserve the twins as a single file: sounds fine. I would vote for having the bound library's names inserted into the 'template' TALES namespace, BTW. +1 -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ALPHABET METROID WINO! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.6.2, Zeo 2.0.1b1 and python 2.2.3
On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 09:48:13AM -0400, Erik A.Dahl wrote: I'm trying to get this combo working (I know its not officially supported). It works fine except for when a second client updates zeo the changes aren't seen from the first client (until its restarted). I ran the zeo tests with 2.2.3 and they all pass. Zope 2.6.2 seems to work fine even with zeo when only one client is doing updates. Where would I look to try and track down the problem (somewhere in the caching code?) Is this even worth pursuing? I have another library that I would like to use but it requires 2.2.3. Known bug in ZEO 2.0.1b1, which is a bit old. Look in the zodb-dev archives. Download a recent ZODB3 (I use ZODB3-3.1.2) and copy the ZEO directory from there. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's SNAKE NEGA MODESTO! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] current best of breed ZEO for Zope 2.6.2 in production?
On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:02:32PM -0300, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: Hi, I'm with a client in the process of setting up a production environment with ZEO. Which of the ZEOs should I use? * Old (t)rusty ZEO 1.0? nope * ZEO 2.0? nope * any one of the ZEO releases at http://www.zope.org/Products/ZEO ? nope * a ZEO ripped off of a ZODB release? Which one? (maybe even this last RC?) Yes! Use ZEO from at least ZODB3-3.1.2. I know that one is good, I can't speak to later releases. * In this case, should I make the ZEO server out of this ZODB release or should I just combine the ZEO server part into Zope and serve ZEO out of that? the latter... just copy the ZEO directory into zope_source/lib/python/ * If use a standalone ZODB release as ZEOServer, can/should I run it on Python2.2 While using Python2.1 ZEOClients? (I'm not running Zope 2.6.2 on Python 2.2) no idea, sorry. I still use python2.1.3 for everything zope-related. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's NIHIL COOKIE WITH AN ATTITUDE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Running the unit tests on 2.6.2?
Zope-2.6.2-src doesn't come with a script to run all the unit tests. Looking at cvs.zope.org, I found test.py, but it's only for 2.7 - it imports logging.config which doesn't exist in 2.6.2. What do I do to run all the unit tests for zope 2.6.2? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's BRAINDEAD SINFUL PROFESSOR! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Running the unit tests on 2.6.2?
Never mind, I found the answer: 1) get testrunner.py from http://www.zope.org/Members/shh/TestRunner/testrunner.py/view 2) The help claims that -p ignore the line in the help that claims -p (add lib/python to the Python search path) is on by default. For me, -p does not work at all! The tests did not run until I exported PYTHONPATH=lib/python. Sorry for the noise. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's YET ANOTHER LAGOMORPH IN THE CLOSET! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Using 2.3.2 for Zope 2.7
On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 03:48:06PM +0100, Toby Dickenson wrote: On Friday 03 October 2003 15:33, Chris McDonough wrote: Jim is keen to get an audit going quickly before a 2.7 final release, and the audit would be performed against Python 2.3.2. Does anyone else have an interest in blessing Zope 2.6.x with Python 2.2/2.3 ? yes, but not much time to help out :-( -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's BROMO-LOVESICK ! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Using 2.3.2 for Zope 2.7
On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 10:33:01AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: Well, to be clear, there hasn't been any formal security audit of the combination of Python 2.2 with Zope 2.7. So we'd lose nothing by moving directly to 2.3. Jim is keen to get an audit going quickly before a 2.7 final release, and the audit would be performed against Python 2.3.2. then by all means, 2.3.2. These audits seem to be hard to get going on a regular basis (we've been on python 2.1.3 for how long now?) so I see no point in blessing a version of python that's already not latest-and-greatest. The only counterargument i can think of is that 2.3 may not be bundled with many linux distros yet. I've always compiled my own python for use with zope, so I don't know how big a deal that is. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE BRIGHT ZACH! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Which ZODB to use for both Zope 2.5.1 and 2.6.1 onPython 2.1.3
On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 10:27:57AM -0300, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 06:46, Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote: Also I forgot to mention: this is for a kluster we are setting up, so I need to know what ZEO is recommended for us with Zope 2.5.1 and 2.6.1 with Python 2.1.3. I'd say ZODB 3.1.4 from http://zope.org/Products/ZODB3.1/ You have to install the whole of ZODB into your Zope, though. Not just ZEO. But I think that is easier than it sounds. The installation instructions in the package mention a switch to install the full ZODB into Zope for you. FWIW I did not succeed in getting ZODB 3.1.2 to work with Zope 2.5.1, but I didn't put much time into trying. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's PSEUDO-BONER SEEKER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] relations in objects
On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 05:07:28PM -0700, Jason Corbett wrote: to reference in some intelligent way between objects in zope, and I need a way to query for a list of them. google for mxmRelations. It does many-to-many relationships so yuo might have to modify it a bit if you really need to constrain that. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE MAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] relations in objects
On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 08:46:24PM -0700, Jason Corbett wrote: Thanks for your reply. I've actually been thinking in an object oriented form for a while. I've looked at implimenting this project in Java using either prevailance or a object persistence model that mapped to a RDBMS. I like the idea of zope, so maybe I should clarify my question: How does an object in zope know where it sits in the hirearchy, The only unique identifier that zope provides is the containment path. An object can tell you its containment path by doing foo.absolute_url(1) or foo.getPhysicalPath() depending on what form you want the output in. and how does it reach other objects. By path. Zope provides a number of ways to express paths in python: foo[some][path]# does NOT use acquisition, only containment foo.some.path # uses acquisition getattr(foo.some, path) # uses acquisition foo.unrestrictedTraverse(/some/path/from/zope/root) foo.unrestrictedTraverse(some/path/relative/to/foo) (see also restrictedTraverse) Note that storing a direct reference may be dangerous e.g. you might not have the object you are expecting - in fact it's very likely that you get an acquisition wrapper which may change at any time. On the other hand, storing paths is problematic if you want to be able to move or rename an object and still keep references to it elsewhere. Hence, look at mxmRelations which helps with this. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] possible compromise
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 05:36:51PM -0700, Chris Pelton wrote: Hello, I'm trying to do some forensics on a redhat 6.2 box that was somehow turned into a mail relay and may have been compromised. The mail logs show the mail coming from an apache virtual host address, and this machine was running zope, and the list of hotfix files I see is: 5220 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2000-10-02.tar.gz 2800 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2000-10-11.tgz 3002 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2000-12-08.tgz 2839 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2000-12-15a.tgz 2386 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2000-12-18.tgz 1899 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2001-02-23.tgz 3292 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2001-03-08.tgz 2492 May 25 2001 Hotfix_2001-05-01.tgz if you're worried that one of those is a trojan, you could re-download the hotfixes here and use diff or cmp: http://zope.org/Products/Zope/swpackage_view So, would anybody have any ideas how to determine if this might have been compromised? Or is there a known mail relay exploit through zope somehow? never heard of one, but if you have a MailHost with wide open permissions somebody could pretty easily write a client script to abuse it. Not sure what version of zope this is That would be listed in the output on startup, and you can also check by visiting http://zope_server:zope_port/Control_Panel/manage_main -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's NANO PHYSICIAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] possible compromise
On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 04:18:17PM -0400, Tres Seaver wrote: On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 16:08, Chris Pelton wrote: Yes, that's what I'm thinking happened here, but I need to verify that was the case. Are there any logs in zope that could help track this down, or a known configuration that would allow it to happen? Also, for future reference, can we disable this? Any ideas how someone might be able to tell Zope is running? I believe that the scenario Robert is describing does not actually involve Zope at all; rather, (in this scenario) Apache is willing to forward arbitrary traffic, via the 'CONNECT' verb. Check your Apache access logs for the HTTP verb, 'CONNECT'. Squid's default configs have specific settings to allow CONNECT only for HTTPS; I'm guessing that your Apache config might need to be tweaked likewise. Yup, I don't think zope even *can* do something like that. I was guessing that the exploit was at the application level - somebody found a MailHost with wide-open permissions and abused it with a client script. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE INTOXICATED GIRL! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Post-Traversal Hook (+Post-Publication Hook)
On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 01:46:08PM +0200, Christian Theune wrote: Am Fr, 2003-10-17 um 13.38 schrieb robert: what does publication mean in this context? I'm referring to the point in time after the method that was addressed by the request (e.g. index_html or __call__) was callen but hasn't been given back yet. So after the result of the request is known. hmm... the only issue that occurs to me is that the method could take a long time to complete, whereas pre-publication should generally be very quick. Don't know if that matters except when debugging in a hurry. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE NOISOME BATMAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Post-Traversal Hook (+Post-Publication Hook)
On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 12:15:07PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote: On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 01:46:08PM +0200, Christian Theune wrote: Am Fr, 2003-10-17 um 13.38 schrieb robert: what does publication mean in this context? I'm referring to the point in time after the method that was addressed by the request (e.g. index_html or __call__) was callen but hasn't been given back yet. So after the result of the request is known. hmm... the only issue that occurs to me is that the method could take a long time to complete, whereas pre-publication should generally be very quick. Don't know if that matters except when debugging in a hurry. duh, never mind, I didn't really read the end of your first message, in which you clearly propose two hooks, one before and one after publication. Carry on :-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's FANTASTIC BURRITO MAFIOSO! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New-style ExtensionClass
On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 11:55:39AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: I've started work on a new-style ExtensionClass. This is a port of ExtensionClass to new-style classes. This will provide a number of advantages: - Use of new-style class features (e.g. descriptors) in Zope objects. woohoo! this all sounds great. One question about new-style ExtensionClass... I wonder if it will address a minor gripe I have with the current ExtensionClass. I spent a few minutes yesterday debugging some code like this: class FooProduct(SimpleItem): def broken(self, obj): if isintance(obj, FooProduct): # never true! raise TypeError def working(self, obj): if obj.meta_type == FooProduct.meta_type: raise TypeError As it turns out, isinstance(FooProduct(), FooProduct) returns false! AFAICT it's ExtensionClass that is responsible for this surprising behavior. The meta_type approach is a decent workaround, but it means I can't automatically detect all subclasses of FooProduct, which is a nice feature of isinstance. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's MARTIAN TAB GEOLOGIST! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Coders] Reminder: bug day tomorrow Oct 21
On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 10:59:38AM -0400, Brian Lloyd wrote: Hi all - A quick reminder that we'll be having a bug day tomorrow 10/21 to try to knock out some remaining issues in the drive to get a Zope 2.7 final out. Hope to see you on #zope-bugday ! isn't it usually #zope-dev? That's what I see on http://dev.zope.org/CVS/BugDays -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's OCTO-MAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] java + zope
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 03:13:56PM +0200, Andreas Jung wrote: --On Donnerstag, 23. Oktober 2003 16:06 Uhr +0400 \Bibikov Kirill\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can I make java + zope integration for web application development? Have it something for this? Does it must to know Python, is it necessary? Zope has never been designed to work with Java except through calling Java through external processes. Check the mailing list archive since this is a FAQ. You can also go the other way - make calls to Zope from java via http. http://sourceforge.net/projects/pstream/ ... although it looks like skyleach is several months behind on his cvs commits. He's a coworker of mine, we've been using this in production for quite a while. Personally I think it's a bit nuts (I'd rather do all the apps in python if not zope), but i'm just one zope/python guy in a hardcore java shop :-] and I'm happy that it got us to use zope for content management instead of a $ java CMS. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's AMBIENT SUSPICIOUS PROFESSOR! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] object copy
On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 12:20:13PM +0100, Dmitrij Repp wrote: Hi, how can I to copy of objects beetwen Folders with python? http://www.zopelabs.com/cookbook/1037768468 such questions are probably better suited for the main zope list, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This list is for development of zope itself, not developing applications with zope. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's GARBAGE MAN EXO SMOOTHIE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.7 beta 3
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:25:20PM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: runzope never detaches from the terminal... use zopectl start instead. Unlike previous versions of Zope, 2.7 doesn't handle its own daemonizing. Instead it relies on an external program to do its daemonizing (Guido's zdaemon, which is invoked by zopectl). I have to say, I am really REALLY happy about this :-) thank you oh great lords of zope! -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's QUASI-NUTLESS MANTICORE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope 2.7.0 b3 regressions
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:35:38PM +0100, Stefan H. Holek wrote: Note that this is one of my main points: It will be of little use to document usage of BASEPATH1+absolute_url(1) when '/'+absolute_url(1) appears to work (until it is far too late). As a frequent (ab)user of '/'+absolute_url(1), which did indeed bite me when i deployed to an inside out apache setup, I thought I'd try this out... I think you meant BASEPATH1+'/'+absolute_url(1)? I put this in a page template called test_abs_url: pTypical relative path using absolute_url(1): span tal:replace=python:'/' + here.absolute_url(1) / /p pBASEPATH1 is: span tal:replace=request/BASEPATH1 / /p pBetter relative path using BASEPATH1 and absolute_url(1): span tal:replace=python:request['BASEPATH1']+here.absolute_url(1) / /p If I visit this at http://localhost:8080/ctimi/about/test_abs_url, I get: Typical relative path using absolute_url(1): /ctimi/about BASEPATH1 is: Better relative path using BASEPATH1 and absolute_url(1): ctimi/about ^^ note, no leading slash If I visit http://localhost:18080/VirtualHostBase/http/www.foobar.com:80/VirtualHostRoot/_vh_foo/ctimi/about/abs_url_test I get this: Typical relative path using absolute_url(1): /ctimi/about BASEPATH1 is: /foo Better relative path using BASEPATH1 and absolute_url(1): /fooctimi/about ... definitely not right. But your point is made - '/'+absolute_url(1) is clearly inadequate too. If I change the template to use request['BASEPATH1']+'/'+here.absolute_url(1), then I get this: Typical relative path using absolute_url(1): /ctimi/about BASEPATH1 is: /foo Better relative path using BASEPATH1 and absolute_url(1): /foo/ctimi/about ... which looks correct to me. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's CHEESY ENGINEER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope 2.7.0 b3 regressions
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:58:12PM +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote: Paul Winkler wrote: As a frequent (ab)user of '/'+absolute_url(1), which did indeed bite me when i deployed to an inside out apache setup, I thought I'd try this out... I think you meant BASEPATH1+'/'+absolute_url(1)? I would like to know: 1. Exactly what is an inside out apache setup. See the About tab on VHM. Inside out is mentioned numerous times in this thread. 2. What is the result you want? The result that I got by doing BASEPATH1+'/'+absolute_url(1) as described in my previous message. I thought that was clear. BASEPATH1 does not have a trailing slash, and absolute_url(1) does not have a leading slash, so if you visit _vh_foo/bar you will get foobar instead of foo/bar. Therefore, BASEPATH1 + absolute_url(1) does not work. You have to insert the slash. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's LATE HYDROXY WATERBOY! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.7.0 b3 regressions
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 07:14:28PM +0100, Stefan H. Holek wrote: After reading this paragraph for the third time I realized you have a very good point here. But quote by=Evan Simpson Relative in this context refers to the concept of a relative path as used in rfc1808, not to a relationship with a Zope object. It is meant for use in situations such as redirection to a secure page from an insecure one (eg. 'https://example.com' + target.absolute_url(1)) where you would otherwise have to generate the complete URL and then break it apart. /quote So, what do we want relative to mean for absolute_url? Speaking for myself, what I really want is something that always works for the client, since that's who generally cares about URLs. I like the behavior of Evan's fix. For looking up objects in zope, we should use other methods such as getPhysicalPath(). Lennart's path2url() would be handy. But I don't think it's worth the backward compatibility pain to change absolute_url(1) now. We've been waiting ages for a stable Zope 2.7, IMHO it's too late for something this problematic to change. So my proposal is this: 1) Implement distinct methods for client-useable virtual paths vs. server-useable containment paths, as Lennart proposes. 2) absolute_url(1) in Zope 2.7 should continue to work as in = 2.6. 3) As soon as we decide conclusively what is going to happen with absolute_url(1) in zope 2.8, we can have it log a deprecation warning. (Hmm, that could really annoy admins. A deprecation warning on every call to getIcon(), ugh. Other ideas?) 4) In zope 2.8, we have the new behavior, whatever we decide that is. We also have to be sure to update the Help docs and the long-suffering API Reference. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's LIUTENANT ON WHEELS! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope 2.7.0 b3 regressions
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 08:24:04PM +0100, Dieter Maurer wrote: Maybe, my contribution has not been read. Thus, I try again: / + absolute_url(1) should implement the notion of absolute-path URL reference (see RFC2396 section 5). This means, that the receiving browser should be able to retrieve the object correctly given this URL reference. Yup. But while we're on the subject... Why doesn't absolute_url(1) include a leading slash? I don't think I've ever seen a use of absolute_url(1) that didn't have to add the slash. What was the rationale originally? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ZOOMING SOLITARY PICNINC CHLAMYDIA OOZE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Post-mortem [Was: Zope 2.7.0 b3 regressions]
On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 10:24:47AM -0600, Evan Simpson wrote: def absolute_url_path(self): '''Return the entire path of the absolute URL for this object. This includes the leading slash, and can be used as an absolute-path reference as defined in RFC 2396. ''' OK. But maybe the docstrings could be more clear about BASEPATH1? IIUC, absolute_url(1) will leave out BASEPATH1, continuing the behavior from zope 2.7, but absolute_url_path() will include BASEPATH1? I propose this, in OFSP/help/ObjectManagerItem.py: def absolute_url_path(self): ''' Return the entire path portion of the absolute URL for this object. This includes the leading slash and BASEPATH1, and can be used as an absolute-path reference as defined in RFC 2396. Thus, this method is always safe to use with VirtualHostMonster. ''' def absolute_url(relative=None): Return the absolute url to the object. If the relative argument is provided with a true value, then the URL returned is relative to the site object. Does not include a leading slash or BASEPATH1, thus is not always safe to use with VirtualHostMonster. Code that uses '/'+absolute_url(1) should be changed to use absolute_url_path instead. Permission -- Always available I removed the logical rather than physical note from absolute_url because I don't think it was actually true before Evan's change, which IIUC is being reverted. Maybe I misunderstood. Lennart proposed additional methods, but I'm going to work on that in the post-2.7 branches, since I really want to clean up this mess properly, and beta 3 isn't the time. Great. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's HYPO-SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALADOCIOUS THIGH MAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] RE: api docs [Was: Re: Post-mortem ...]
On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 10:20:22AM -0500, Brian Lloyd wrote: Ghaaa... :( API docs come from OFSP/help, so you'll probably have to copy it for now. As you rightly pointed out, this is problematic for keeping things in sync, but we should hold our nose for now and do it, since it's too late in the 2.7 cycle to contemplate that big a restructuring. Making this sane would be a good potential project for an enterprising zopista for 2.8... What would be sane in your view? Using interfaces for help, as CMF does? I was curious how CMF sets this up, and found the following in CMFCore/__init__.py: try: context.registerHelpTitle( 'CMF Core Help' ) context.registerHelp(directory='interfaces') except: # AARGH!! pass I love comments like that :-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE EXPECTANT MOLE RAT! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZServer HTTP 1.1 support
I noticed this in ZServer/README.txt (zope 2.6.2): HTTP 1.1 support is ZServer is incomplete, though it should work for most HTTP 1.1 clients. Anybody know what specifically is incomplete? In particular, some people on my team asked me if zserver supports persistent connections, and I didn't know how to answer. I'm looking now at HTTPServer.py and the docstrings suggest that it does ... yes? no? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's RADIO FOOLISH POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE SQUID! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZServer HTTP 1.1 support
On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 10:44:56PM +0100, Clemens Robbenhaar wrote: You can try out yourself: connect to the Zope server via telnet and type in: GET / HTTP/1.1 Host: localhost The server should serve the page, and if it supports persistent connections, if should not close the connection, so You can type in the request again (if You type fast enough to finish before the timeout ;-) Apparently, that would be a very slow typist ;-) thanks, it works at least this much. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's DOLL OF LONDON! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZServer HTTP 1.1 support
Excellent, that's a much more thorough answer than I hoped for. Thanks! On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 02:16:46PM -0800, Jamie Heilman wrote: (a whole lot) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE RIGHTEOUS DOCTOR! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Converting from old-style BTreess
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 05:21:55AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: Woot! ;-) Descriptors, yum... But you can use descriptors in extension classes now too. I wondered what the heck you guys were on about... google turned up this: http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm very very cool stuff. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's ZORRO SLUDGE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] bizarre slicing behaviour in Zope
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 03:30:50PM -0500, Gerry Kirk wrote:
try this in a script in zope 2.7b3 (maybe others, too) if you want to go
crazy:
dd = ('dd', 'diocese', 'Parish.2003-12-16.8636751973', 'bob',
'Workspace.2003-12-17.8140751750','gerry.2003-12-17.8140751750')
return dd[4:]
you should get the last two items from the tuple, but I get the last
item returned as a string
I tried 2.6 as well. Check the source of the returned page.
I think you will find this:
html
head
titleWorkspace.2003-12-17.8140751750/title
/head
body
gerry.2003-12-17.8140751750
/body
/html
It seems to happen with any tuple... I tried this script:
return ('foo', 'bar')
... and got this:
html
head
titlefoo/title
/head
body
bar
/body
/html
Returning a list instead of a tuple is OK - it shows a string
representation of the list.
I would guess that you are right, this is odd publisher behavior.
File a collector issue.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Converting from old-style BTreess
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 02:47:01AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: shrug Who knows. I'd rather be safe. It's not that hard. In any case, we would have needed the fix to handle old pickles correctly. Asking a possibly redundant question... not being much of a ZODB hacker, I didn't follow this thread in detail... Q: Will Zope = 2.8 be able to import .zexp's exported from zope = 2.6.2? From Jim's comment above I would guess yes, but I need to be sure. Some of us out here in the wild use import / export machinery pretty heavily (see e.g. ZSyncer), and we typically like to burn in a new zope version on a dev system for some time before upgrading the production systems... but during that time we need to keep syncing stuff from dev to production. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's FOOD-COVERED STRAIGHT FROM UNCLE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: CVS: Releases/Zope/lib/python/ZEO - simul.py:1.12.8.2.18.18
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 04:53:02PM -0500, Jeremy Hylton wrote: One downside of that merge, which we didn't realized until after it was done, is that you now get a ZEO directory in a Zope checkout on the 2.6 branch. downside??? I thought that was a good thing! I think there was email about the discovery at the time, and I noticed that Brian did not include ZEO in the 2.6.3 releases; so I assume he's got some mechanism to suppress it from the actual release. Consider this a request to disable that mechanism ;-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's SUPER FRED! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: backward compatibility of PythonScript bindings for 2.6.4 / 2.7.0
On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 10:42:11AM -0500, Brian Lloyd wrote: These two facts did not cause a problem before, because the security check for the 'container' binding was not being performed at bind-time. One question - what *is* bind time? Is the container bound when the script is called? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's THE PIDDLE! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
