[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Having exposed the primary goal That ain't the primary goal of TM, actually. Which is? Is it then a secondary goal? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] KRSNa flies higher?
http://tinyurl.com/zyv9t Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the foundation for questioning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SELF-DOUBT AND CYNICISM VS. PROFOUND TRUST Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. -- Thomas Jefferson Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
On Mar 13, 2006, at 10:41 PM, wayback71 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 13, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Rick Archer wrote: An MUM staffer says that Bevan and lawyers are putting quite a bit into the lawsuit against MUM brought by the parents of Levi Butler. The suit draws a bigger line to include other TM organizations besides MUM; the two families make claims against the techniques too. A lawyer who helps MUM with legal issues said he feels we can handle the allegations about techniques but the claim against MUM for the wrongful death will be more difficult. One of the dangers of canned meditation techniques is that they don't allow for all the subtle nuances of a potentially infinite variety of students. All these people would have to do is subpoena (or whatever you call it) the checking procedures and show how there are a limited set of responses, IIRC, none of which ever tell you to 'stop meditating' or cut back if x happens (i'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here). And actually they had this kid over- meditating as it was. I'll be amazed if they get out of this one. Upside is, this would be a good time to modify and expand the checking procedures to include what they darn well know are the side- effects--and sometime dangerous side effects--of TM. But we all know it is extremely unlikely this will ever happen. Changing checking notes wold not help - that would put checkers in the position of evaluating a person's mental status, and open them up to all sorts of liability wouldn't it? Perhaps, but common sense can go a long way--and I can't help but wonder on the value of more traditional meditational systems which use lengthy mental screening and moral training before starting meditation--as this essentially weeds out people with illness. In a come and get it meditative model, there will be casualties. My point in this case is, if I were the prosecuting attorney, I'd have a hay day with all the levels of negligence. And checking notes and getting people to learn TM seem to be the very last things on MMY's mind for the last several decades. Indeed. No one person is to blame for this tragedy. For example, I imagine that the parents of Sem wish, in retrospect, thatthey had never let him go far from home to go to college when he had a history (didn't he?) of mental illness. Obviously, the MUM folks did not handle this serious situation properly - no training in this? No understanindg of mental illness or psychosis by those making decisions? a desire to keep this a low profile event, so no authorities were called or real help sought for this young man with a brain disorder? LIke most tragedies, a series of events, each one of which should not have happened, did happen - one after the other - and lives were ruined. I think most of us have difficulty anticipating the Worst. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little comment can do. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); Yes. the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yes. Having exposed the primary goal, the question of effort is important in distinguishing TM from other traditional forms of meditation which require forced attention on the mantra. The fact that something - a method - is effortless is not necessarily good unless it fulfills an objective: here, Transcendental Consciousness. Countless endeavors are nearly effortless but don't produce the results in question. I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than TM according to some here. (wonder though if this is true for overweight people;-). And the confusion regarding meditation with props (like Vaj's thesis that only objectless meditations could be truely effortless), effortlessness, and intention. Any meditation technique, by definition, uses some kind of induction, some instruction to follow. Compare that to sleep: Is there a difference between unintentional sleep (e.g. during meditation or TV), intentional sleep (going to bed), sleep with props (like a pillowcase), and 'canned' sleep (when you count sheep to sleep in, or follow a ritual like using a prayer)? If you follow Vacs argumentation, there should be a big difference in all these forms. I also don't see, why classical mindfulness, not using a prop (mantra), would be therefore more effortless. After all focusing ones attention, be it on the breath, ones environment (the moment), ones activity, or ones internal thought-processes, is just an induced activity as well, otherwise there would be no need for instruction or a retreat to learn it, it would be just a spontaneaus occurance. So, IMO, TM being an induced form of meditation, using props (mantra) could be just as effortless, while mindfullness, not using props, could still be with effort. Using props or not, has nothing to do with effort, just in the same way as using a pillow-case or not, has nothing to do with the spontaneity of sleep. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Could you describe in a bit more detail the effortless technique you claim you learned there? Glad to. It was a walking meditation that involved paying attention to what was going on internally and externally. Isn't unintentional walking effortless per se? Or is there a difference between intentional effortlessness and unintentional non-effort, in the same way as easy is not the same as effortless, and detached is just different to non-attached? Is it enough that things are effortless, or do we have to experience the effortlessness as well? Could anybody please explain the difference to me, as I am getting confused. Btw. being the non-doer, it is not 'I' who does the effort, rather the effort simply happens, that is is unintentional and therefore truely effortless. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. But an approximation. And as such not bad. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. It always needs two. E.g. one to put up a smokescreen of the 'truely' effortless, non-prop. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ... and commitment, bhakti. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little comment can do. Indeed. A couple of people mention that they've learned techniques of meditation that are either as effortless as TM or (in their opinion) more so, someone posts a quote from Maharishi himself stating that TM isn't completely effortless, and the shit hits the fan. :-) People start jumping all over each other, normally- mutually-supportive TBs start arguing with each other over whose meditation is more effortless and thus more superior, a normally non-TB poster becomes a private dick with a mission from God to prove TM the only effortless technique available, and it goes on and on and on for hundreds if not thousands of lines. And all because two simplistic pieces of dogma (TM is effortless and TM is unique) have been repeated so often that some people have come to believe that they're up there with the Word Of God, sacrosanct, never to be questioned or challenged. It's all pretty funny, actually. Unless, of course, you happen to be one of the ones for whom the Word Of God has been questioned...then it's obviously deadly serious. WHAT DOES IT MATTER whose technique is more effortless, or whether the TM technique is unique or not? In this whole brouhaha, it seems to me that sparaig and hyperbolic have the right idea -- if the technique works for them, WHERE'S THE PROBLEM? But others seem to be acting like if they allow even one insignificant point of the TM dogma to be challenged, then the whole teaching and belief system is going to fall apart for them like a house of cards. Weird, if you ask me... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: I think there is a big confusion of what evolution actually means. Here some biological definitions: Evolution: The long-term process through which a population of organisms accumulates genetic changes that enable its members to successfully adapt to environmental conditions and to better exploit food resources. www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEPC/WWC/1994/glossary.html The change in life over time by adaptation, variation, over-reproduction, and differential survival/reproduction, a process referred to by Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace as natural selection. http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookglossE.html In this sense evolution is not the development to a certain pre-existent goal, but rather the successful adaptaion to a given environment by a certain organism. Thhis is what trial and error and natural selection is all about. This makes the idea of an evolving Creator-God fairly upsurd: How could a Creator adapt to an environment, he has created himself? It is even more absurd if you assume an all-knowing God going through trial and error. Pretty much trial and error can be done by machines, and doesn't require a creator at all. That is why evolution, the theory of natural selection is so much opposed by the creationists. Now one can of course try to transfer the idea of evolution to a sort of teleological argument, and that is what many New Agers do. There is a goal, a pre-existent ideal to which nature develops. But if God himself develops, who established the ideal, was it already there or did he create it? And if he created the ideal, why didn't s/he create the ideal creation right away? I think one gets into a big muddle if one tries to combine evolutionary theories which really don't need any God (like trial and error) with creationist ideas. Why should a God evolve, unless he has fallen, and is now involved in his own creation? Of course one could argue, we are all God, and we are all evolving to finally realize this potential of ours. Otherwise its a really absurd idea, with the sort of populistic appeal, the same as that we are all co-creators. It just makes some people feel more important. +++ Haven't you observed that you do some creating yourself? N. For me rather anticipation in creation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
Just a couple of points: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than TM according to some here. The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more effortless than TM, in that there is no specific intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on anything in particular, nada. . . . I also don't see, why classical mindfulness, not using a prop (mantra), would be therefore more effortless. After all focusing ones attention, be it on the breath, ones environment (the moment), ones activity, or ones internal thought-processes, is just an induced activity as well, otherwise there would be no need for instruction or a retreat to learn it, it would be just a spontaneaus occurance. You seem to have missed the posts in which I mentioned that the techniques I'm talking about are *not* mindfulness, which IMO definitely has a specific intent. In the techniques I'm talking about, there is no intent and nothing to focus on. It's merely a process of just *noticing* what is already going on, *not* focusing on it or directing it in any way. Nothing is induced, nothing focused upon; the only instruc- tion is along the lines of notice what is going on rather than distract yourself from it. The instruction is needed only because most people in the world *do* distract themselves from what is going on inside them and around them, constantly. The point of this simple technique is that there is a value in not doing so. Ok...you can go back to arguing about whose techniques and belief systems are best now. I just wanted to correct your misstatement of what I've said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. But an approximation. And as such not bad. Agreed. Not bad *at all*. *Especially* as compared to forms of concentration. But I get the feeling that some people aren't willing to live with TM's effortlessness being an approximation of effort- lessness. They want the dogma they've clung to for so many decades to be TRUE, DAMNIT, even if that involves pushing square pegs into round holes and ignoring direct quotes from Maharishi. It would be funny if the vibe surrounding it weren't so desperate. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First this: Ok...you can go back to arguing about whose techniques and belief systems are best now. I just wanted to correct your misstatement of what I've said. Not my involvment, you know very well. Just a couple of points: snip You seem to have missed the posts in which I mentioned that the techniques I'm talking about are *not* mindfulness, which IMO definitely has a specific intent. In the techniques I'm talking about, there is no intent and nothing to focus on. It's merely a process of just *noticing* what is already going on, *not* focusing on it or directing it in any way. Nothing is induced, nothing focused upon; Sorry to disagree, but the instruction 'to notice something' is certainly directing awareness. It most certainly is an induction as well. As the 'attention' is directed, it is also a form of mindfulness, maybe a rather easy one. the only instruc- tion is along the lines of notice what is going on rather than distract yourself from it. Yes, but it directs awareness. The instruction 'not to distract yourself from it', indeed uses subtle effort. The instruction is needed only because most people in the world *do* distract themselves from what is going on inside them and around them, constantly. That's why meditation is needed. The point of this simple technique is that there is a value in not doing so. Sure. I don't disgard it at all. But whatever Vac said about TM is applicable there also. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But an approximation. And as such not bad. Agreed. Not bad *at all*. *Especially* as compared to forms of concentration. But I get the feeling that some people aren't willing to live with TM's effortlessness being an approximation of effort- lessness. They want the dogma they've clung to for so many decades to be TRUE, DAMNIT, even if that involves pushing square pegs into round holes and ignoring direct quotes from Maharishi. It would be funny if the vibe surrounding it weren't so desperate. You know the last stresses are sometimes the hardest to get by. Also Non-Dogma could become a Dogma, you can get attached to anything. It's not that what you get attached to is bad. Not even attachment is bad, its just an occurance. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: First this: Ok...you can go back to arguing about whose techniques and belief systems are best now. I just wanted to correct your misstatement of what I've said. Not my involvment, you know very well. Ok. :-) *People* can go back to arguing about whose techniques and belief systems are best now. You do not have to include yourself in that category if you don't want. :-) Just a couple of points: snip You seem to have missed the posts in which I mentioned that the techniques I'm talking about are *not* mindfulness, which IMO definitely has a specific intent. In the techniques I'm talking about, there is no intent and nothing to focus on. It's merely a process of just *noticing* what is already going on, *not* focusing on it or directing it in any way. Nothing is induced, nothing focused upon; Sorry to disagree, but the instruction 'to notice something' is certainly directing awareness. It most certainly is an induction as well. As the 'attention' is directed, it is also a form of mindfulness, maybe a rather easy one. Whatever floats your boat. It's possible to see things that way. I see a distinction between the techniques I've learned as 'mindfulness' and the one I was describing, but you don't have to. the only instruc- tion is along the lines of notice what is going on rather than distract yourself from it. Yes, but it directs awareness. The instruction 'not to distract yourself from it', indeed uses subtle effort. Whatever floats your boat. It's possible to see things that way. The instruction is needed only because most people in the world *do* distract themselves from what is going on inside them and around them, constantly. That's why meditation is needed. Not needed, just interesting for those who find its benefits valuable. Not even *useful* for those who have no interest in those supposed benefits. The point of this simple technique is that there is a value in not doing so. Sure. I don't disgard it at all. But whatever Vac said about TM is applicable there also. Whatever floats your boat. It's possible to see things that way. I DON'T CARE whose technique is more effortless. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME AT ALL. I don't even particlarly LIKE the more effortless techniques. I'm a fan of concentration techniques. I leave the my technique is more effortless than your technique debate to those who give a damn about it. Me, I consider such discussions in the same philosphical ballpark as my dick is longer than your dick, in that the *outcome* of such debates seems to be primarily of interest to the person who's terrified that they have a tiny wanger. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
On Mar 13, 2006, at 11:25 PM, sparaig wrote: Yeah, but as I say, effortlessness in the TM sense *can't* be an expectation. You can only expect *something*, you can't expect *nothing*. Or to put it another way, any expectation of effortlessness that you might have wouldn't be effortlessness in the TM experiential sense. An expectation is intellectual; effortlessness isn't. Apples and oranges. But you are the one who said that people who don't have YOUR experience haven't gotten TM. That's an expectation, by definition. An expectation of what? And how would it affect one's practice? Expectations effect everything we do. If you expect TM to include a certain kind of experience than you're practicing that experience. It is a form of mindfullnessAs is remembering to bring awareness back to the mantra or even once subconsciously conditioned automatic reacquisition of the mantra impulse--called patched placement and close' placement in previous examples. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... Nope. In other words, Barry lives in a fantasy world. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: I could easily have been guilty of the same negligence Joel Wysong displayed while watching the guy. I suspect he was in the other room meditating when Sem stole the knife and left his house. Then he sat and ate 30' away from him in the dining hall, assuming obviously that Sem was harmless. I feel sorry for Joel. He's a good fellow and this will haunt him the rest of his days. Or worse, that it won't. I don't know Joel, but it's very possible that he's like some people here and convinced that he was not the doer in this whole scenario and thus bears no responsibility for it whatsoever. Amazing. Barry's *still* getting not the doer wrong. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 0 I did say in that in the early stages there may be some very slight effort until the automatic cycle is established. What if that automatic cycle is NEVER established? Does this mean that someone is doing it incorrectly? I guess many people who for instance see different colours when they hear sounds of different pitches think that everybody has that gift. My TM-instructor said, as I recall it, that some people have echo-mantra, and for them TM is especially easy to learn, because there certainly is absolutely no effort when they are meditating. Just for the record, it was some months after I learned to meditate that it began to be completely effortless. I'm not sure what echo-mantra is, or whether I have it even now, but I seriously doubt I had it when I started. Also, to clarify something: To this day, I don't always have 100 percent effortless meditations all the way through a meditation session by any means; and as I've described elsewhere, I had a period of some months awhile back in which meditation always had some subtle effort. What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only for a portion of that session. That automatic cycle might be a slightly different thing, but I wouldn't say my meditation is like that. As I've told before, I sometimes even pay some attention to the final sound of my mantra, because my mother tongue doesn't have that sound *at the end of words*, excepting a couple of onomatopoetic words. Have you consulted a TM teacher about this? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: I could easily have been guilty of the same negligence Joel Wysong displayed while watching the guy. I suspect he was in the other room meditating when Sem stole the knife and left his house. Then he sat and ate 30' away from him in the dining hall, assuming obviously that Sem was harmless. I feel sorry for Joel. He's a good fellow and this will haunt him the rest of his days. Or worse, that it won't. I don't know Joel, but it's very possible that he's like some people here and convinced that he was not the doer in this whole scenario and thus bears no responsibility for it whatsoever. Amazing. Barry's *still* getting not the doer wrong. Could it be attachment? It really gripped him. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the foundation for questioning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: SELF-DOUBT AND CYNICISM VS. PROFOUND TRUST Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. -- Thomas Jefferson False dichotomy. Plus which, the homage of reason may ultimately lead to a conclusion that God *does* exist. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Having exposed the primary goal That ain't the primary goal of TM, actually. Which is? Is it then a secondary goal? Nope. If TM can be said to have a goal--other than the long-term goal of enlightenment--it's deep rest and the concomitant release of stress. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. Except, of course, that it isn't the case even in this one example. I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing they missed the whole point. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little comment can do. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
On Mar 14, 2006, at 9:07 AM, authfriend wrote: I don't know Joel, but it's very possible that he's like some people here and convinced that he was not the doer in this whole scenario and thus bears no responsibility for it whatsoever. Amazing. Barry's *still* getting not the doer wrong. Or you're not getting that it was actually rather clever joke. I got a laugh out of it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Holi and bhang
I just found this website that discusses the uses of bhang (a cannabis drink) in conjunction with a Hindu holiday on Thursday, March 16. I already knew that Shiva was the God of intoxicants, but had never heard of the ritual use of this drug in conjunction with this particular holiday. Here' s a couple of links about it. Very interesting reading. =-=--=-= om=-==- Nick A HREF=http://www.holifestival.org/tradition-of-bhang.html;Tradition of Bhang,Holi Bhang,History of Bhang/A A HREF=http://www.holifestival.org/bhang-recipes.html;Bhang Recipes,Recipe of Bhang,Holi Bhang Recipe,Recipe for Bhang/A Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); Yes. the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yes. Having exposed the primary goal, the question of effort is important in distinguishing TM from other traditional forms of meditation which require forced attention on the mantra. The fact that something - a method - is effortless is not necessarily good unless it fulfills an objective: here, Transcendental Consciousness. Countless endeavors are nearly effortless but don't produce the results in question. I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than TM according to some here. (wonder though if this is true for overweight people;-). And the confusion regarding meditation with props (like Vaj's thesis that only objectless meditations could be truely effortless), effortlessness, and intention. Any meditation technique, by definition, uses some kind of induction, some instruction to follow. Compare that to sleep: Is there a difference between unintentional sleep (e.g. during meditation or TV), intentional sleep (going to bed), sleep with props (like a pillowcase), and 'canned' sleep (when you count sheep to sleep in, or follow a ritual like using a prayer)? If you follow Vacs argumentation, there should be a big difference in all these forms. I'd say the difference is in the length of time it takes to go from full wakefulness to sleep. In the case of TM, I'd say the induction method for sleep corresponds to whatever you do before you close the eyes: shut the door of the room, turn the phone off, pull down the shades, maybe do asanas and pranayam, arrange the pillows if you use them, put the clock where you can see it, and sit easily. Actually falling asleep corresponds to the mantra arising after you close the eyes. When TM teachers compare TM to going to sleep with regard to effortlessness, I've always understood them to be referring to what happens *after* the induction. I don't believe that either the intention to meditate or the fact that you've been given instructions means effort is involved. Induction is settting conditions favorable for TM *to happen*, just as with sleep. Going to sleep *happens*; it isn't something you *do*. I also don't see, why classical mindfulness, not using a prop (mantra), would be therefore more effortless. After all focusing ones attention, be it on the breath, ones environment (the moment), ones activity, or ones internal thought-processes, is just an induced activity as well, otherwise there would be no need for instruction or a retreat to learn it, it would be just a spontaneaus occurance. So, IMO, TM being an induced form of meditation, using props (mantra) could be just as effortless, while mindfullness, not using props, could still be with effort. Using props or not, has nothing to do with effort, just in the same way as using a pillow-case or not, has nothing to do with the spontaneity of sleep. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Could you describe in a bit more detail the effortless technique you claim you learned there? Glad to. It was a walking meditation that involved paying attention to what was going on internally and externally. Isn't unintentional walking effortless per se? Or is there a difference between intentional effortlessness and unintentional non-effort, in the same way as easy is not the same as effortless, and detached is just different to non-attached? Is it enough that things are effortless, or do we have to experience the effortlessness as well? Could anybody please explain the difference to me, as I am getting confused. Btw. being the non-doer, it is not 'I' who does the effort, rather the effort simply happens, that is is unintentional and therefore truely effortless. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: PErhaps because they DID screw up, to some extent? What perhaps? It was a clear case of negligence. A guy got scratched in the face with a pen in a scuffle. Do you believe that the prof was negligent in turning his back and taking a shower? Obviously, he didn't believe the guy to be any kind of threat. Obviously, he was wrong. I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very quickly going to have no official TM presence. I've been told that MUM is insured for this type of liability and the insurance company is pretty much handling the case at this pt. The coverage may not be complete, but MUM is apparently not concerned about going out of business due to this lawsuit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. Except, of course, that it isn't the case even in this one example. I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing they missed the whole point. Ah, the humility of the TM True Believer. Doncha just love it? :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: PErhaps because they DID screw up, to some extent? What perhaps? It was a clear case of negligence. A guy got scratched in the face with a pen in a scuffle. Do you believe that the prof was negligent in turning his back and taking a shower? Obviously, he didn't believe the guy to be any kind of threat. Obviously, he was wrong. I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very quickly going to have no official TM presence. I've been told that MUM is insured for this type of liability and the insurance company is pretty much handling the case at this pt. The coverage may not be complete, but MUM is apparently not concerned about going out of business due to this lawsuit. Hey, MUM wouldn't be concerned about going out of business if a comet was rushing towards Earth and predicted to strike Ottumwa. The laws of nature would protect them, right? :-) Seriously, strike my comment about MUM going out of business when (not if) they lose this lawsuit. They'll probably be in business until Maharishi gets a burr up his butt and decides to close it down for some other reason, like the buildings are now the wrong color. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little comment can do. Indeed. A couple of people mention that they've learned techniques of meditation that are either as effortless as TM or (in their opinion) more so, someone posts a quote from Maharishi himself stating that TM isn't completely effortless, and the shit hits the fan. :-) Or, someone posts a quote of MMY quoting the Vedas without any kind of context, and some folks *interpret* it as his stating that TM isn't completely effortless. (And just for the record, that quote was produced well after the shit hit the fan.) People start jumping all over each other, normally- mutually-supportive TBs start arguing with each other over whose meditation is more effortless and thus more superior, This is apparently Barry's take on my discussion with Lawson. Does anybody else think this is an accurate characterization? a normally non-TB poster becomes a private dick with a mission from God to prove TM the only effortless technique available, and it goes on and on and on for hundreds if not thousands of lines. And all because two simplistic pieces of dogma (TM is effortless and TM is unique) have been repeated so often that some people have come to believe that they're up there with the Word Of God, sacrosanct, never to be questioned or challenged. Or, they're describing their personal experience with TM, which happens to confirm that TM is effortless. (In my case, I hadn't the foggiest idea what the referent of the term effortless was until I'd had the experience.) Moreover, far from believing that I'm never to be questioned or challenged, I *invite* questioning and challenge (just as Shemp has invited challenge to the TM is unique assertion). It's all pretty funny, actually. Unless, of course, you happen to be one of the ones for whom the Word Of God has been questioned...then it's obviously deadly serious. WHAT DOES IT MATTER whose technique is more effortless, or whether the TM technique is unique or not? Different issue entirely. Maybe it matters that TM is effortless and unique, maybe it doesn't. But that isn't what we've been discussing. In this whole brouhaha, it seems to me that sparaig and hyperbolic have the right idea -- if the technique works for them, WHERE'S THE PROBLEM? But others seem to be acting like if they allow even one insignificant point of the TM dogma to be challenged, then the whole teaching and belief system is going to fall apart for them like a house of cards. Speaking of hyperbolic... In fact, *nobody* is acting like that in this discussion. I personally feel this *particular* point is the bottom line with regard to TM, and it's just about the only one I absolutely insist on. And since it isn't a belief but a direct personal experience, it's hard to imagine how challenges to it could cause any of my belief system to fall apart. Weird, if you ask me... Barry, it's your fantasies that are weird, not the reality. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a couple of points: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than TM according to some here. The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more effortless than TM, in that there is no specific intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on anything in particular, nada. There is no specific intent during TM, either (much less instruction to focus on anything in particular). . . . I also don't see, why classical mindfulness, not using a prop (mantra), would be therefore more effortless. After all focusing ones attention, be it on the breath, ones environment (the moment), ones activity, or ones internal thought-processes, is just an induced activity as well, otherwise there would be no need for instruction or a retreat to learn it, it would be just a spontaneaus occurance. You seem to have missed the posts in which I mentioned that the techniques I'm talking about are *not* mindfulness, which IMO definitely has a specific intent. In the techniques I'm talking about, there is no intent and nothing to focus on. It's merely a process of just *noticing* what is already going on, *not* focusing on it or directing it in any way. Nothing is induced, nothing focused upon; the only instruc- tion is along the lines of notice what is going on rather than distract yourself from it. The instruction is needed only because most people in the world *do* distract themselves from what is going on inside them and around them, constantly. The point of this simple technique is that there is a value in not doing so. Ok...you can go back to arguing about whose techniques and belief systems are best now. I just wanted to correct your misstatement of what I've said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. But an approximation. And as such not bad. Agreed. Not bad *at all*. *Especially* as compared to forms of concentration. But I get the feeling that some people aren't willing to live with TM's effortlessness being an approximation of effort- lessness. They want the dogma they've clung to for so many decades to be TRUE, DAMNIT, even if that involves pushing square pegs into round holes and ignoring direct quotes from Maharishi. It would be funny if the vibe surrounding it weren't so desperate. Except that this is your *fantasy*, Barry, once again, at least in my case. It's not dogma, it's personal experience. And not only have I not ignored the quotes from MMY, I've asked explicitly several times for more context so we could see what he was actually talking about. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 9:07 AM, authfriend wrote: I don't know Joel, but it's very possible that he's like some people here and convinced that he was not the doer in this whole scenario and thus bears no responsibility for it whatsoever. Amazing. Barry's *still* getting not the doer wrong. Or you're not getting that it was actually rather clever joke. I got a laugh out of it. Barry was making fun of himself, then? He's the only person here, as far as I'm aware, who holds to that interpretation of I am not the doer. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just *think* how many similar tragedies within the TM movement will get to come out in this lawsuit. Ya got the suicides on TM courses, ya got the guy burning himself to death after having been locked away in a basement room. Not sure Sten was locked in the room. He have have gone down there on his own. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. Except, of course, that it isn't the case even in this one example. I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing they missed the whole point. Ah, the humility of the TM True Believer. Doncha just love it? :-) :-) :-) On a par with the humility of the True Non-Believer, I guess. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] FW: Mr. M + money ....
Title: FW: Mr. M + money from a fellow in Germany: After reading this post about Mr. M. and his money, (* down there ) I had a session to look inside and understand what is wrong in the money scheme in the TMO and the Mr. M. I saw him with a huge bulk of money, looking at it and being amazed. So money seems to have some kind of attraction for this Mr. M. For me, this is the wrong approach to society. In germ-any, the TMO lost its tax-free status already in the 70s. And the green party at least stated, that they will be against Mr. M., as long as his financial situation is not transparent For me, money is an exchange betw. two hearts. And it can increase the level of friendship and attraction, when the exchange is real and truthful for BOTH sides. Looking how Mr. M. is hording his money, rememberd me of a story from GD. He was travelling with desciples, one had money. He asked, that the money was buried somewhere. Than later on, that guy with the original money died. Coming back to that spot, GD said, if you die, your heart will still hold that money. And that will be seen by a snake, that will curl around the money. When they where digging up the money, there was a snake, and GD killed it, to free the mind of the former desciple. Asking Mr. M. inside, why he is doing this kind of destorted money business, he was looking at his money and said: It`s like all the world is doing it. Sad for him, because he looked that sad. I think, he really missed the heart part in the exchange value, of what we call money.. (here is, how to llok into money from a different point of view... http://joergdao.fortunecity.de/cass.html http://joergdao.fortunecity.de/cass.html # ) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: PErhaps because they DID screw up, to some extent? What perhaps? It was a clear case of negligence. A guy got scratched in the face with a pen in a scuffle. Do you believe that the prof was negligent in turning his back and taking a shower? Obviously, he didn't believe the guy to be any kind of threat. Obviously, he was wrong. I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very quickly going to have no official TM presence. 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of how the lawsuit goes; 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 0 I did say in that in the early stages there may be some very slight effort until the automatic cycle is established. What if that automatic cycle is NEVER established? Does this mean that someone is doing it incorrectly? I guess many people who for instance see different colours when they hear sounds of different pitches think that everybody has that gift. My TM-instructor said, as I recall it, that some people have echo-mantra, and for them TM is especially easy to learn, because there certainly is absolutely no effort when they are meditating. That automatic cycle might be a slightly different thing, but I wouldn't say my meditation is like that. As I've told before, I sometimes even pay some attention to the final sound of my mantra, because my mother tongue doesn't have that sound *at the end of words*, excepting a couple of onomatopoetic words. It might be good to get checked... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/13/06 10:10 PM, shempmcgurk at shempmcgurk@ wrote: He should get counselling. I'm serious. If Joel is feeling any amount of guilt it should only be to the degree that it was his responsibility to follow the code of conduct as published by the university: that is, that the slightest infraction of the law is IMMEDIATELY notified to the applicable authorities, which the university did NOT do. If that was Joel's responsibility, then, yes, he should feel guilty to his dying day. If it was someone else's, he shouldn't feel one tinge of guilt. Again, if he is feeling guilty, he should be getting professional counselling on this. His responsibility was just to watch Sem. He was evidently assigned that job by whoever decided to ship Sem home without reporting the pen stabbing incident to the authorities. ** Sem stabbed a guy in the face, requiring stitches, without provocation, an obviously psychotic break that school authorities took so seriously that they decided to throw Sem out of school and put him on a plane home the next morning. Naturally, this being MUM management, they not only did not get security guards to watch over him (so that the assault would not end up in security dept. logs which the public can access), ...and this is where the negligence occurred...and we all know why it occurred: the TMO and MUM did not want to inflate crime figures for a TMing environment that would disprove the Maharishi Effect. Is there anyone that doubts this? they did not assign two guys to monitor him, so that Sem could repeat his assault on another student when his sole watchdog was busy in the bathroom. Substitute the name Bevan Morris or Craig Pearson for the unimportant student who was stabbed with a pen, and the outcome would have been different -- Sem would have been managed if the vic had been important, but he was only a student, a type that counts for nothing at a school where there is no real student newspaper -- do the math... An important factor, no doubt, but likely not the only one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Having exposed the primary goal That ain't the primary goal of TM, actually. Which is? Is it then a secondary goal? Its not a goal at all. About the only goal of TM practice is to sit for the whole 20 minutes and for the quiet periods before and after. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little comment can do. WHereas there is no trigger-issue where you are concerned. Nothing that, when brought up, will cause you to react in ways that other people would view as unreasonable. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. But an approximation. And as such not bad. A limit, in the mathematical sense, not merely an approximation. MMY refers to TM as least effort in the direction of less effort. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. It always needs two. E.g. one to put up a smokescreen of the 'truely' effortless, non-prop. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ... and commitment, bhakti. And a difference in understanding, or at least, semantics. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. But an approximation. And as such not bad. Agreed. Not bad *at all*. *Especially* as compared to forms of concentration. But I get the feeling that some people aren't willing to live with TM's effortlessness being an approximation of effort- lessness. They want the dogma they've clung to for so many decades to be TRUE, DAMNIT, even if that involves pushing square pegs into round holes and ignoring direct quotes from Maharishi. It would be funny if the vibe surrounding it weren't so desperate. MY experience is that TM CAN be effortless. Does this make MMY incorrect? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a couple of points: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than TM according to some here. The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more effortless than TM, in that there is no specific intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on anything in particular, nada. . . . What is the intent of TM? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very quickly going to have no official TM presence. 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of how the lawsuit goes; Yes, someone has already pointed this out. 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... Nope. In other words, Barry lives in a fantasy world. Of course, as long as one isn't (at least) living 24/7 witnessing, everything one does, even TM, is an exercise in attachment. TM just has a certain quality of loosening the attachments, at least sometimes (perhaps always, who knows?). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 13, 2006, at 11:25 PM, sparaig wrote: Yeah, but as I say, effortlessness in the TM sense *can't* be an expectation. You can only expect *something*, you can't expect *nothing*. Or to put it another way, any expectation of effortlessness that you might have wouldn't be effortlessness in the TM experiential sense. An expectation is intellectual; effortlessness isn't. Apples and oranges. But you are the one who said that people who don't have YOUR experience haven't gotten TM. That's an expectation, by definition. An expectation of what? And how would it affect one's practice? Expectations effect everything we do. If you expect TM to include a certain kind of experience than you're practicing that experience. It is a form of mindfullnessAs is remembering to bring awareness back to the mantra or even once subconsciously conditioned automatic reacquisition of the mantra impulse--called patched placement and close' placement in previous examples. Sure, but my OWN TM practice often varies quite a bit from the previous practice, and even from moment to moment within the same period of practice. Even mindfulness doesn't describe my practice at times where I can become aware that I'm not thinking the mantra and then realize that actually, I probably WAS thinking the mantra while other stuff was being thought as well. My realization that I'm not thinking the mantra often brings to mind something so subtle that its only by contrast that I feel even remotely comfortable with calling it my mantra. At the other end of my experiences, Benson's relaxation response seems easy and spontaneous by comparison. And no doubt, I'll have/have had some other experiences as well. Etc.Etc.etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: 0 I did say in that in the early stages there may be some very slight effort until the automatic cycle is established. What if that automatic cycle is NEVER established? Does this mean that someone is doing it incorrectly? I guess many people who for instance see different colours when they hear sounds of different pitches think that everybody has that gift. My TM-instructor said, as I recall it, that some people have echo-mantra, and for them TM is especially easy to learn, because there certainly is absolutely no effort when they are meditating. Just for the record, it was some months after I learned to meditate that it began to be completely effortless. I'm not sure what echo-mantra is, or whether I have it even now, but I seriously doubt I had it when I started. Also, to clarify something: To this day, I don't always have 100 percent effortless meditations all the way through a meditation session by any means; and as I've described elsewhere, I had a period of some months awhile back in which meditation always had some subtle effort. What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only for a portion of that session. I would say, rather, that as long as you have the understanding that no effort is *required*, that your practice of TM, no matter if 100% effortless, or only 97.3% effortless (or whatever), is still a valid TM session. Assigning value judgements to your practice isn't the best way to spend your time... That automatic cycle might be a slightly different thing, but I wouldn't say my meditation is like that. As I've told before, I sometimes even pay some attention to the final sound of my mantra, because my mother tongue doesn't have that sound *at the end of words*, excepting a couple of onomatopoetic words. Have you consulted a TM teacher about this? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Having exposed the primary goal That ain't the primary goal of TM, actually. Which is? Is it then a secondary goal? Nope. If TM can be said to have a goal--other than the long-term goal of enlightenment--it's deep rest and the concomitant release of stress. That's a reason or some reasons to do it, but not a goal within the practice... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. Except, of course, that it isn't the case even in this one example. I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing they missed the whole point. Or perhaps, they DID get the point (effortlessness, more or less) but believe that some specific *experience* is more valid than the process, so they seek techniques and programs and lifestyles that promote the experience they desire, rather than simply practice TM and live life as it unfolds. They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' and beating it deader than a dead horse so that they can avoid thinking about what *other* things that were told to them might not be true. In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little comment can do. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't quite true. And it goes deeper than this one example. Except, of course, that it isn't the case even in this one example. I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing they missed the whole point. Ah, the humility of the TM True Believer. Doncha just love it? :-) :-) :-) As opposed to the non-TM TBer. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [...] People start jumping all over each other, normally- mutually-supportive TBs start arguing with each other over whose meditation is more effortless and thus more superior, This is apparently Barry's take on my discussion with Lawson. Does anybody else think this is an accurate characterization? I missed that. That IS bizarre. a normally non-TB poster becomes a private dick with a mission from God to prove TM the only effortless technique available, and it goes on and on and on for hundreds if not thousands of lines. And all because two simplistic pieces of dogma (TM is effortless and TM is unique) have been repeated so often that some people have come to believe that they're up there with the Word Of God, sacrosanct, never to be questioned or challenged. Or, they're describing their personal experience with TM, which happens to confirm that TM is effortless. (In my case, I hadn't the foggiest idea what the referent of the term effortless was until I'd had the experience.) Of course, as a friend pointed out to me once, its entirely plausible that you're going to open your eyes after your next TM session and go OMG I had it wrong all these years and that you will continue to have such OMG episodes for the rest of your life. Moreover, far from believing that I'm never to be questioned or challenged, I *invite* questioning and challenge (just as Shemp has invited challenge to the TM is unique assertion). It's all pretty funny, actually. Unless, of course, you happen to be one of the ones for whom the Word Of God has been questioned...then it's obviously deadly serious. WHAT DOES IT MATTER whose technique is more effortless, or whether the TM technique is unique or not? Different issue entirely. Maybe it matters that TM is effortless and unique, maybe it doesn't. But that isn't what we've been discussing. In this whole brouhaha, it seems to me that sparaig and hyperbolic have the right idea -- if the technique works for them, WHERE'S THE PROBLEM? But others seem to be acting like if they allow even one insignificant point of the TM dogma to be challenged, then the whole teaching and belief system is going to fall apart for them like a house of cards. Speaking of hyperbolic... In fact, *nobody* is acting like that in this discussion. I personally feel this *particular* point is the bottom line with regard to TM, and it's just about the only one I absolutely insist on. And since it isn't a belief but a direct personal experience, it's hard to imagine how challenges to it could cause any of my belief system to fall apart. Weird, if you ask me... Barry, it's your fantasies that are weird, not the reality. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Just a couple of points: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than TM according to some here. The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more effortless than TM, in that there is no specific intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on anything in particular, nada. There is no specific intent during TM, either (much less instruction to focus on anything in particular). Well, there's almost a specific intent inherent in the instructions (else, why call them instructions?), but its not something you can pin down with strict accuracy. Its a hiesenberg uncertainty principle thang: the more you try to pin it down, the less accurately you capture the intent. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very quickly going to have no official TM presence. 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of how the lawsuit goes; Yes, someone has already pointed this out. 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. So you don't think that MUM has any positive impact on the town? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing they missed the whole point. Or perhaps, they DID get the point (effortlessness, more or less) but believe that some specific *experience* is more valid than the process, so they seek techniques and programs and lifestyles that promote the experience they desire, rather than simply practice TM and live life as it unfolds. Or, we were just open to learning something new, which we then found that we liked better than TM. Not that the new thing *was* or *is* better than TM, just that we liked it better. I think you can accept that, but I somehow doubt that Judy can. She's going to have to find a way to characterize anyone who prefers something other than TM as a failure. It's the corollary of sticking with the only thing you've ever learned as a way of convincing yourself you're a success. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed liberators. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very quickly going to have no official TM presence. 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of how the lawsuit goes; Yes, someone has already pointed this out. 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. So you don't think that MUM has any positive impact on the town? I don't live there, so I can't say. I'm sure it had a positive economic impact on the town, but I've also read here about the university using its clout to ban meetings of other spiritual groups, to ban people who attend meetings of other groups from the university and its meditation halls, and other such garbage. I doubt that anyone in the town, even if they practice TM, would miss that sort of intrusive control-freak behavior if it went away. I'm sure there would be an impact. TMers there would have to learn to live like Just Plain Folks instead of Ru's. On the other hand, they would *get* to learn to live like Just Plain Folks instead of Ru's, and I think that in the long run that would be a good thing. But as someone pointed out, the insurance company will probably take the hit on this one, and the university will stick around, at least until Maharishi gets a whim up his butt and decides it shouldn't. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed liberators. Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening actions to keep people in place. Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular type of group think. PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be seriously affected financially by the suit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only for a portion of that session. I would say, rather, that as long as you have the understanding that no effort is *required*, that your practice of TM, no matter if 100% effortless, or only 97.3% effortless (or whatever), is still a valid TM session. This isn't rather. I would agree: as long as *some* percentage of a session is effortless, it's a valid TM session. By which I mean, any session of which a portion is TM (i.e., effortless) is a TM session. Assigning value judgements to your practice isn't the best way to spend your time... Right. Were you thinking that this is what I do? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that we know more than they do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on campus about why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are people. Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people needing to be liberated and shaken up, wouldn't it be more mature to simply honor the decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what they want to devote themselves to? And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to disappoint you all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed liberators. Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening actions to keep people in place. Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular type of group think. PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be seriously affected financially by the suit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Just a couple of points: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than TM according to some here. The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more effortless than TM, in that there is no specific intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on anything in particular, nada. There is no specific intent during TM, either (much less instruction to focus on anything in particular). Well, there's almost a specific intent inherent in the instructions (else, why call them instructions?) There's a case to be made that they *aren't* instructions, actually... In any case, I would contend that after a certain amount of practice, you aren't doing anything that could be called following instructions. Vaj calls it conditioning, and that may be an appropriate term. In which case, there's intent only to the point where you sit down and close the eyes, then the conditioning takes over. , but its not something you can pin down with strict accuracy. Its a hiesenberg uncertainty principle thang: the more you try to pin it down, the less accurately you capture the intent. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
The bulk of the people who have chosen to remain in FF, after pretty much having severed their ties to the MIU/MUM way of life are anything but Plain Folks. Following Lady Saints (not that there's anything wrong with that), doing fire yagyas and the like, and the myriad host of other types of spiritual pursuits in the midst of cornfields and hog farms and soon to be hog factories, is not normal Plain Folks to the normal Plain Folks that have lived there for many generations. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but these alternate groups in FF would fit far better in Seattle or Santa Fe or Woodstock or Madison, WI, etc. I think that there would be no real reason to stay in FF once the university closed down (but what do I know) but many of the people now in FF have been there for 20+ years, have friendships, families, etc. and not enough money to start all over at age 50+. While many have left the control of TM/MIU-MUM, etc. they have continued to use this sense of us-them as a reason/cause celebre for many of the activities of their lives. How many would be able to handle it if, after all these years, this reason evaporated? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very quickly going to have no official TM presence. 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of how the lawsuit goes; Yes, someone has already pointed this out. 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. So you don't think that MUM has any positive impact on the town? I don't live there, so I can't say. I'm sure it had a positive economic impact on the town, but I've also read here about the university using its clout to ban meetings of other spiritual groups, to ban people who attend meetings of other groups from the university and its meditation halls, and other such garbage. I doubt that anyone in the town, even if they practice TM, would miss that sort of intrusive control-freak behavior if it went away. I'm sure there would be an impact. TMers there would have to learn to live like Just Plain Folks instead of Ru's. On the other hand, they would *get* to learn to live like Just Plain Folks instead of Ru's, and I think that in the long run that would be a good thing. But as someone pointed out, the insurance company will probably take the hit on this one, and the university will stick around, at least until Maharishi gets a whim up his butt and decides it shouldn't. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing they missed the whole point. Or perhaps, they DID get the point (effortlessness, more or less) but believe that some specific *experience* is more valid than the process, so they seek techniques and programs and lifestyles that promote the experience they desire, rather than simply practice TM and live life as it unfolds. Or, we were just open to learning something new, which we then found that we liked better than TM. Not that the new thing *was* or *is* better than TM, just that we liked it better. I think you can accept that, but I somehow doubt that Judy can. I can certainly accept that you liked something else better than TM. But that, of course, doesn't conflict with what Lawson suggested. Nor is it even germane to the present discussion. The question is, why are you so desperate to prove TM isn't effortless? She's going to have to find a way to characterize anyone who prefers something other than TM as a failure. Oh? It's the corollary of sticking with the only thing you've ever learned as a way of convincing yourself you're a success. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 10:51 AM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that we know more than they do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on campus about why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are people. Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people needing to be liberated and shaken up, wouldn't it be more mature to simply honor the decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what they want to devote themselves to? I'm just speaking from my experience. I was full time in the TMO for 25 years, the last several of them on campus. We were afraid to leave. We didn't know how we would support ourselves. I think many on campus are in this boat. We felt liberated after we left. Maybe others would. Maybe some wouldn't. That's all I was saying. I'd rather see MUM flourish than fail, but I don't think that's going to happen unless some fundamental changes occur. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, why are you so desperate to prove TM isn't effortless? It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. She's going to have to find a way to characterize anyone who prefers something other than TM as a failure. Oh? It's the corollary of sticking with the only thing you've ever learned as a way of convincing yourself you're a success. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] 'How Does the Intellect to Settle - During TM?'
I'm wondering what other experiences are.. during meditation and the question of arriving at the state of 'settled intellect' as was discussed by Maharishi in the state of Samadhi.. As the intellect is the function of the mind to discriminate between 'this or that'. Does the intellect settle by discriminating between a thought and coming back to the mantra? or Does the intellect settle by discriminating between subtler experiences of the mantra, as it refines, or what? Does the intellect cease to discriminate at all, in Samadhi? How exactly does the the intellect become more settled, and then completely settledduring TM ? Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The question is, why are you so desperate to prove TM isn't effortless? It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. It's far from every single thing on either of our parts. I'm kind of stumped, though, as to how to respond to a question as to why I find *some* things wrong with what he says. Perhaps this will help: If he stopped being such an arrogant phony and acquired a measure of respect for accuracy, I would probably find a lot fewer things wrong with what he says. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] White Tantra
Happy Holi! For those of you interested in tantra my teacher sent me the URL to this Indian site which has a lot of good information on tantra including links to other sites and lists of books on the subject: www.whitetantra.net Jai Ma, Bhairitu Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
on 3/14/06 11:31 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps this will help: If he stopped being such an arrogant phony and acquired a measure of respect for accuracy, I would probably find a lot fewer things wrong with what he says. Byron Katie to the rescue: http://www.thework.com/index.asp Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
Sure, it's just great, Feste. When are you moving there? :) Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:23 AM, feste37 wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there!
[FairfieldLife] The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The question is, why are you so desperate to prove TM isn't effortless? It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not respond to anything she says. Let's see how well she can do during that same period. It's the willpower test of champions :-) Will the champion of effortless meditation actually *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made her mind so lazy she has no control over her own behavior? Will the champion of concentration meditation actually have the ability to focus on keeping his word? Only time will tell, but my bet is that her Jones for trashing me is so strong that she'll refuse to partici- pate in the test. If she does, my bet is that she'll last about as long as Kramer did in the Seinfeld master of my domain contest, and for similar reasons. :-) :-) :-) Starting right now for moi. If Judy isn't afraid to go for it, she has one last post in which to respond to this and dump all her remaining vitriol... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
Barry I've read these groups, starting with amt, going back as near as I can remember to the mid 90s, I know you two, and Lawson in his own way, have been at it for a long time. What I don't really understand is why you both choose to remain at it? It seems to me (but what do I know) that you would be able to, perhaps mustering together some self-control hitherto unbeknownst to yourself(ves) to simply ignore each other. I certainly cannot remember Judy ever agreeing with anything you've said. One thing I have noticed, a real difference between you two, is you tend to be a lot *sloppier* in how you say things which gives someone with precision targeting capabilities the opportunity to hone in and criticize. You might not be interested in taking a writing class and learning how to really say what you want to say in a very precise way, maybe that wouldn't suit your style, but you do seem very chameleonlike in your posts, always kinda sorta changing your pt of view. You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond then you, etc. It's a very strange dynamic, one that should cause us all to view the dynamics as if we were looking in a mirror-how would we compare to this. I know it's done that for me, caused me to look at just how knee-jerk my reactions are in some of my relationships. Like i will not allow people to be viewed any differently by me, I look for reasons to attack them. That's how Judy appears to me in your regard and you appear to go out of your way to provide a target. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The question is, why are you so desperate to prove TM isn't effortless? It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not respond to anything she says. Let's see how well she can do during that same period. It's the willpower test of champions :-) Will the champion of effortless meditation actually *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made her mind so lazy she has no control over her own behavior? Will the champion of concentration meditation actually have the ability to focus on keeping his word? Only time will tell, but my bet is that her Jones for trashing me is so strong that she'll refuse to partici- pate in the test. If she does, my bet is that she'll last about as long as Kramer did in the Seinfeld master of my domain contest, and for similar reasons. :-) :-) :-) Starting right now for moi. If Judy isn't afraid to go for it, she has one last post in which to respond to this and dump all her remaining vitriol... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
on 3/14/06 11:46 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The question is, why are you so desperate to prove TM isn't effortless? It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not respond to anything she says. Let's see how well she can do during that same period. It's the willpower test of champions :-) Will the champion of effortless meditation actually *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made her mind so lazy she has no control over her own behavior? Whoops! You slipped in the next sentence. Or does this test begin with subsequent posts? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that we know more than they do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on campus about why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are people. Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people needing to be liberated and shaken up, wouldn't it be more mature to simply honor the decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what they want to devote themselves to? The driving mission of MUM is get everyone else in the world to do the tm program and no other meditation or guru related activities, tear down their house and build only according to S-ved, go only to Maharishi approved doctors, and generally liberate them from their unenlightened existence. I was accosted several times in town after I stopped going to the dome by TBs. People like Rick and I don't accost anyone on campus about their lifestyles, and now we can't even express an opinion about a few people. You think you know what's best for everyone in the world. And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to disappoint you all. Orgy of delight?? Even someone's personal opinion that some people on campus might benefit from a change of pace, without any expressed desired to make it so, drives TBs nuts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 markmeredith@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed liberators. Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening actions to keep people in place. Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular type of group think. PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be seriously affected financially by the suit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
on 3/14/06 12:04 PM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond then you, etc. Kinda reminds me of how I used to pick on my little sister. I knew what her reaction would be. That's what I was trying to provoke! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might not be interested in taking a writing class and learning how to really say what you want to say in a very precise way, maybe that wouldn't suit your style, but you do seem very chameleonlike in your posts, always kinda sorta changing your pt of view. Thank you. I take that as a sign that I'm doing something right. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to disappoint you all. whoopdi-do, there is new construction going on. What was wrong with the old campus? That place was a beehive of activity for years, vital, fun, great place to meet and greet friends, no matter which way you turned you had great friends. Everything was staphatya-Vedically, ayurvedically incorrect, and yet the community was vital and thriving. Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people. Every single successful business I can think of went bankrupt AFTER they built and occupied Stapatya Vedic buidlings. The campus itself went stapathya Vedic and now there are like 100 students occupying a 200 acre campus, 2 acres per student. It's a ghost town, soon it will resemble a Hindu Ghost Town, nice buildings run by skinny, pale people who will eventually simply fade into the ether they so longingly desire (but what do I know?). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 markmeredith@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed liberators. Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening actions to keep people in place. Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular type of group think. PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be seriously affected financially by the suit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'How Does the Intellect to Settle - During TM?'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering what other experiences are.. during meditation and the question of arriving at the state of 'settled intellect' as was discussed by Maharishi in the state of Samadhi.. As the intellect is the function of the mind to discriminate between 'this or that'. Does the intellect settle by discriminating between a thought and coming back to the mantra? or Does the intellect settle by discriminating between subtler experiences of the mantra, as it refines, or what? Does the intellect cease to discriminate at all, in Samadhi? How exactly does the the intellect become more settled, and then completely settled during TM ? Including this morning's meditation, my experience has regularly been to think the mantra, which moves my mind towards subtler states of thought. Thoughts arise, then the mantras is introduced again and the mind moves towards yet subtler states of thought. Then it reaches a state of no thought. And just rests in the fullness of that; Being. No intellect there. Don't know if that is Samadhi. Don't really care either; Samadhi appears overrated. Hope that helps. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The question is, why are you so desperate to prove TM isn't effortless? It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. Need to point out from time to time that Barry's endlessly repeated cyberstalking charge is knowingly false. But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not respond to anything she says. alt.m.t regulars can sing along with this tune; it's at least the two-dozenth time Barry has proposed such an experiment. I believe he's even done it here at least once. As some of you here on FFL may have noticed, Barry doesn't actually mention me all that often; instead he uses various circumlocutions such as some people and There are those here who... while making it crystal clear who he's referring to. He also often responds to my posts once removed, as it were, in his comments on someone else's response. So even if he *were* able to keep from mentioning me or replying to my posts until the end of March, he'd have no problem finding opportunities to dump on me. The offer is, like Barry himself, thoroughly fraudulent. Let's see how well she can do during that same period. First let's see if she agrees to participate in Barry's bogus experiment, shall we? Nope, she doesn't. It's the willpower test of champions :-) Will the champion of effortless meditation actually *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made her mind so lazy she has no control over her own behavior? Will the champion of concentration meditation actually have the ability to focus on keeping his word? Only time will tell, but my bet is that her Jones for trashing me is so strong that she'll refuse to partici- pate in the test. If she does, my bet is that she'll last about as long as Kramer did in the Seinfeld master of my domain contest, and for similar reasons. :-) :-) :-) Amusingly, Barry has *always* crapped out on his previous experiments. Starting right now for moi. If Judy isn't afraid to go for it, she has one last post in which to respond to this and dump all her remaining vitriol... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/14/06 12:04 PM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond then you, etc. Kinda reminds me of how I used to pick on my little sister. I knew what her reaction would be. That's what I was trying to provoke! That's what Barry *claims* to be doing. But that's just as fraudulent as practically everything else he says. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It isn't just sloppiness by any means, although that's certainly a factor. The major problem is his deliberate disregard for accuracy and penchant for intentional misrepresentation. Yah, that is what I meant/included (in my mind) when I used the term *sloppiness.* Going back to your earlier question, how long would *you* continue to correct repeated deliberate misrepresentations of your behavior and beliefs? Would you eventually just give up and allow the person to lie about you freely? Yup, that is exactly what I would do. Have you noticed that Michael Dean Goodman gets criticized for his posts and he, as near as I can recall, has never once reacted. I think (but what do I know!?) it would be a major departure into growth if you were able to stop reacting to Barry. I mean we all know/can predict how every interaction involving you two is going to go. It's tiresome. It's pointless, except to you two. You might not be interested in taking a writing class and learning how to really say what you want to say in a very precise way, maybe that wouldn't suit your style, but you do seem very chameleonlike in your posts, always kinda sorta changing your pt of view. This last is actually a tactic. The goal is to score points by dumping on somebody else and/or exalting himself. The context and content are irrelevant; whatever position achieves this goal in any given exchange is the one he'll take, regardless of whether it conflicts with what he said the day before, or even the post before (sometimes even the paragraph before, in the very same post). And when called on this, he'll exalt himself as someone who isn't bound by the petty strictures of consistency (as the person who called him on it is, natch). It's a scam, one he's been running for the ten-plus years I've known him. You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond then you, etc. It's a very strange dynamic, one that should cause us all to view the dynamics as if we were looking in a mirror-how would we compare to this. I know it's done that for me, caused me to look at just how knee-jerk my reactions are in some of my relationships. Like i will not allow people to be viewed any differently by me, I look for reasons to attack them. That's how Judy appears to me in your regard and you appear to go out of your way to provide a target. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Sorry, it appears the numbers of each article in the brief didn't paste properly, nor did the more readable format. I've emailed Rick the file separately and if he adds it to the files section it may appear in a more palatable version. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. TYPO: I meant to write He acted horribly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Which article are you referring to, Shemp? Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly.
[FairfieldLife] What's the difference between Shuvender Sem and Dick Cheney?
Shuvender's facial assault required less stitches. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Oops--never mind. On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:06 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA CENTRAL DIVISION On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:15 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote: Which article are you referring to, Shemp? Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Iowa complaint -- Butler case
And here I thought the original president of the university was George Wallace, which explained why everyone always wore long flowing white robes. Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:06 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: The original president of the University, Dr. Robert Wallace
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which article are you referring to, Shemp? Sal Although they didn't copy and paste from the brief to my posting, I am referring to articles 57-63 Articles 57-63 are reproduced here (sorry, without the numbering): Shuvender Sem was placed in the custody of Joel Wysong, the Dean of Men. Joel Wysong took Shuvender Sem to Mr. Wysong's apartment on campus. At his residence, Joel Wysong observed Shuvender Sem standing in the kitchen, turning in circles, waving his arms, clapping his hands, and muttering to himself as he looked toward the ceiling. Joel Wysong feared for his personal safety while Shuvender Sem was at his residence. Joel Wysong left Shuvender Sem in the kitchen while Wysong retreated to another room to meditate. He could hear Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen. When Joel Wysong finished meditating, he discovered Shuvender Sem was missing. Wysong did not speak to Campus Security or notify local law enforcement. Instead, he decided to try to find Sem himself. Joel Wysong checked several locations before finding Shuvender Sem at the student dining hall on campus. Rather than remove Sem from the dining hall or request assistance from Campus Security or local law enforcement, Wysong decided to allow Sem to mingle with other students. Wysong did nothing to protect the students from Sem. Instead he sat some distance away from Sem. He did not keep Sem under observation. On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Which article are you referring to, Shemp? Sal Although they didn't copy and paste from the brief to my posting, I am referring to articles 57-63 Articles 57-63 are reproduced here (sorry, without the numbering): Shuvender Sem was placed in the custody of Joel Wysong, the Dean of Men. Joel Wysong took Shuvender Sem to Mr. Wysong's apartment on campus. At his residence, Joel Wysong observed Shuvender Sem standing in the kitchen, turning in circles, waving his arms, clapping his hands, and muttering to himself as he looked toward the ceiling. Joel Wysong feared for his personal safety while Shuvender Sem was at his residence. Joel Wysong left Shuvender Sem in the kitchen while Wysong retreated to another room to meditate. He could hear Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen. When Joel Wysong finished meditating, he discovered Shuvender Sem was missing. Wysong did not speak to Campus Security or notify local law enforcement. Instead, he decided to try to find Sem himself. Joel Wysong checked several locations before finding Shuvender Sem at the student dining hall on campus. Rather than remove Sem from the dining hall or request assistance from Campus Security or local law enforcement, Wysong decided to allow Sem to mingle with other students. Wysong did nothing to protect the students from Sem. Instead he sat some distance away from Sem. He did not keep Sem under observation. Wysong feared for his personal safety and then he left him alone to go and meditate!! Then he heard Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen. And he allowed Sem to mingle with other students. Sorry, if all this is true, then Wysong is incredibly negilgent and responsible...not that this removes liablity from the university because Wysong is its employee. But, sorry, if true, Wysong is a total schmuck. On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Thanks. I knew about the rummaging, but not the clapping and waving of hands, or the part about JW fearing for his safety. Quite a revelation. And I agree with your conclusion. Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:20 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Which article are you referring to, Shemp? > > Sal Although they didn't copy and paste from the brief to my posting, I am referring to articles 57-63 Articles 57-63 are reproduced here (sorry, without the numbering): Shuvender Sem was placed in the custody of Joel Wysong, the Dean of Men. Joel Wysong took Shuvender Sem to Mr. Wysong's apartment on campus. At his residence, Joel Wysong observed Shuvender Sem standing in the kitchen, turning in circles, waving his arms, clapping his hands, and muttering to himself as he looked toward the ceiling. Joel Wysong feared for his personal safety while Shuvender Sem was at his residence. Joel Wysong left Shuvender Sem in the kitchen while Wysong retreated to another room to meditate. He could hear Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen. When Joel Wysong finished meditating, he discovered Shuvender Sem was missing. Wysong did not speak to Campus Security or notify local law enforcement. Instead, he decided to try to find Sem himself. Joel Wysong checked several locations before finding Shuvender Sem at the student dining hall on campus. Rather than remove Sem from the dining hall or request assistance from Campus Security or local law enforcement, Wysong decided to allow Sem to mingle with other students. Wysong did nothing to protect the students from Sem. Instead he sat some distance away from Sem. He did not keep Sem under observation. > > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. >
[FairfieldLife] New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FairfieldLife group. File: /TMO -- the Odd Side/Iowa Complaint -- Butler case.doc Uploaded by : rick_archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description : Iowa complaint filed by Levi Butler's family's lawyer (it's in public domain as it is filed in court). You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/TMO%20--%20the%20Odd%20Side/Iowa%20Complaint%20--%20Butler%20case.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, rick_archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
I got a good laugh out of this, especially your comment, Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people. Have you been to Annapurna dining hall recently, Anon? I think you might be surprised at what you find there -- that is, if you're not so stuck in your preconceptions that nothing real can register with you. And I can't really believe that you are regretful about the demise of the old Learning Center, which must rank as one of the worst buildings ever constructed. The new student center is going to be terrific. Stick around, you might even like it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to disappoint you all. whoopdi-do, there is new construction going on. What was wrong with the old campus? That place was a beehive of activity for years, vital, fun, great place to meet and greet friends, no matter which way you turned you had great friends. Everything was staphatya-Vedically, ayurvedically incorrect, and yet the community was vital and thriving. Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people. Every single successful business I can think of went bankrupt AFTER they built and occupied Stapatya Vedic buidlings. The campus itself went stapathya Vedic and now there are like 100 students occupying a 200 acre campus, 2 acres per student. It's a ghost town, soon it will resemble a Hindu Ghost Town, nice buildings run by skinny, pale people who will eventually simply fade into the ether they so longingly desire (but what do I know?). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 markmeredith@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed liberators. Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening actions to keep people in place. Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular type of group think. PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be seriously affected financially by the suit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: 0 I did say in that in the early stages there may be some very slight effort until the automatic cycle is established. What if that automatic cycle is NEVER established? Does this mean that someone is doing it incorrectly? I guess many people who for instance see different colours when they hear sounds of different pitches think that everybody has that gift. My TM-instructor said, as I recall it, that some people have echo-mantra, and for them TM is especially easy to learn, because there certainly is absolutely no effort when they are meditating. Just for the record, it was some months after I learned to meditate that it began to be completely effortless. I'm not sure what echo-mantra is, or whether I have it even now, but I seriously doubt I had it when I started. Also, to clarify something: To this day, I don't always have 100 percent effortless meditations all the way through a meditation session by any means; and as I've described elsewhere, I had a period of some months awhile back in which meditation always had some subtle effort. What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only for a portion of that session. That automatic cycle might be a slightly different thing, but I wouldn't say my meditation is like that. As I've told before, I sometimes even pay some attention to the final sound of my mantra, because my mother tongue doesn't have that sound *at the end of words*, excepting a couple of onomatopoetic words. Have you consulted a TM teacher about this? No, I haven't, but I'm quite sure during my initiation my TM instructor emphasized the importance of the last sound of my mantra, despite the fact that my wild imagination every now and then tends to play games with me and distort my memories... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. Have to agree--he and a quite a few others. We do want to hear the other side, though, such as it may be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to disappoint you all. whoopdi-do, there is new construction going on. What was wrong with the old campus? That place was a beehive of activity for years, vital, fun, great place to meet and greet friends, no matter which way you turned you had great friends. Everything was staphatya-Vedically, ayurvedically incorrect, and yet the community was vital and thriving. Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people. Every single successful business I can think of went bankrupt AFTER they built and occupied Stapatya Vedic buidlings. The campus itself went stapathya Vedic and now there are like 100 students occupying a 200 acre campus, 2 acres per student. It's a ghost town, soon it will resemble a Hindu Ghost Town, nice buildings run by skinny, pale people who will eventually simply fade into the ether they so longingly desire (but what do I know?). When will TMers and, especially, the TBers realize that all this talk about Schtapatya Veda, Yagyas, Vedic Vibration, etc. is all a cosmic joke on the party of MMY. All these things are neither necessary for your evolution nor are they required to any degree (unless, of course, you're an Indian from India and a Hindu and it's part of your culture). In the first 5 minutes of the first step of the 7-step program you're told that TM is neither a religion or a philosophy and that it doesn't require a change in lifestyle. But yet TBers nagged MMY for years to get the secret knowledge. Well, ya wore him down after 25 years of your nagging and now you have the so-called secret knowledge...all unnecessary claptrap that impedes your evolution, not adds to it. Go back to practising the TM Program and drop off the trappings of the cult you have imposed upon yourself. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 markmeredith@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed liberators. Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening actions to keep people in place. Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular type of group think. PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be seriously affected financially by the suit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. Have to agree--he and a quite a few others. We do want to hear the other side, though, such as it may be. I wonder: before the actual trial takes place (assuming that it does), won't the other side be filing their own brief, kinda an answer to this brief? If so, Judy, that may be the opportunity for us to hear the other side and I, too, will want to hear it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA CENTRAL DIVISION ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, Plaintiff, v. MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 Among the many disturbing, sad and negligent things presented here, (if it's accurate) almost as an aside. I wonder if it may have repercusions in Federal law and the real reason it's in the complaint. (i) That democracy is a cruel form of government. The University's website boasts that it has received more than $32 million in federal and other grants. Defendants are exempt from paying federal taxes I knew this would come back around... JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA CENTRAL DIVISION ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, Plaintiff, v. MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out at me, such as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in mind, which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're actually experiencing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA CENTRAL DIVISION ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, Plaintiff, v. MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 Among the many disturbing, sad and negligent things presented here, (if it's accurate) almost as an aside. I wonder if it may have repercusions in Federal law and the real reason it's in the complaint. (i) That democracy is a cruel form of government. I think the reason the plaintiff's attorney included this comment in the brief is that it just simply makes MMY and MUM look bad by showing that they say silly things. The University's website boasts that it has received more than $32 million in federal and other grants. Defendants are exempt from paying federal taxes I knew this would come back around... JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
