subject:"\[AFMUG\] Sonar"


Chuck

It ain't even summer yet



On 2/27/2018 6:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I know my forehead brain is toasted today...
*From:* Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Ah, that explains it.

I’ll follow up tomorrow, thanks for your help/responses Simon.

I guess I’ll just go home too.

Customers don’t use their internet after hours anyways 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:19 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

We're closed right now. Nobody is going to respond until tomorrow. You 
can give them a call in the morning as well if you'd like to.


On 2/27/2018 6:15 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

I’ve been responding to support emails from your team, and just
sent another email just now.

Not getting a lot of response back.

I figured out how to reset it with digitalocean, so I can do that,
just not sure if your team is working on it as is, or if they want
it reset now?

They need to reply to my emails.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change
with the IP.

If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick
and painless process.

On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP
address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.

A and  name records, email server records to allow relay,
firewall config etc.

I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image
in place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that
just resets the whole damn install to initial config?

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon
Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx.
The step by step walk through is at
https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.

We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out
so we can just walk through the install process. There is no
customer login information in the portal. It is stored inside
Sonar. This can be solved very quickly with a fresh server,
and just letting our staff set it up for you.

On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the
blue it decided to just corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now,
but they had to disable nginx and run Apache.

Which is odd, because I think someone else from their
company originally got in and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right
hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and
apparently all of the customer defined login information
for the portal too?

Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Cassidy B. Larson
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock
ubuntu VM then follow their install instructions and done.
Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

I customized the logo and some text on the main page via
the config file, but that was really it. I haven’t looked
at it much since.

-- 


Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com






On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part
of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their
own linux system to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't
immediately synched up with thei

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal


Azotel has 24 hour support???


On 2/27/2018 6:18 PM, Simon Westlake wrote:
We're closed right now. Nobody is going to respond until tomorrow. You 
can give them a call in the morning as well if you'd like to.


On 2/27/2018 6:15 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


I’ve been responding to support emails from your team, and just sent 
another email just now.


Not getting a lot of response back.

I figured out how to reset it with digitalocean, so I can do that, 
just not sure if your team is working on it as is, or if they want it 
reset now?


They need to reply to my emails.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change with 
the IP.


If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick 
and painless process.


On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP
address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.

A and  name records, email server records to allow relay,
firewall config etc.

I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in
place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just
resets the whole damn install to initial config?

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The
step by step walk through is at
https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.

We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so
we can just walk through the install process. There is no
customer login information in the portal. It is stored inside
Sonar. This can be solved very quickly with a fresh server, and
just letting our staff set it up for you.

On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue
it decided to just corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but
they had to disable nginx and run Apache.

Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company
originally got in and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right
hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and
apparently all of the customer defined login information for
the portal too?

Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Cassidy B. Larson
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock
ubuntu VM then follow their install instructions and done.
Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the
config file, but that was really it. I haven’t looked at it
much since.

-- 


Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com <mailto:c...@infowest.com>





On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of
their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own
linux system to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't
immediately synched up with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with
customers and made a billing change in Sonar and the
customer can't see it in the portal until an unspecified
amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not
responding to web requests and appears offline to my
customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and
start over, which if I remember, cost me a few hours of
time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 changes,
firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial loa

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Chuck McCown

I know my forehead brain is toasted today...

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Ah, that explains it.

I’ll follow up tomorrow, thanks for your help/responses Simon.

I guess I’ll just go home too.

Customers don’t use their internet after hours anyways 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

We're closed right now. Nobody is going to respond until tomorrow. You can give 
them a call in the morning as well if you'd like to.

On 2/27/2018 6:15 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

  I’ve been responding to support emails from your team, and just sent another 
email just now.

  Not getting a lot of response back.

  I figured out how to reset it with digitalocean, so I can do that, just not 
sure if your team is working on it as is, or if they want it reset now?

  They need to reply to my emails.

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
  Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

  You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change with the IP.

  If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick and 
painless process.

  On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.

A and  name records, email server records to allow relay, firewall 
config etc.

I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just resets 
the whole damn install to initial config?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The step by 
step walk through is at https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.

We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so we can 
just walk through the install process. There is no customer login information 
in the portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This can be solved very quickly with 
a fresh server, and just letting our staff set it up for you.

On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

  That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it decided to 
just corrupt or something.

  They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they had to 
disable nginx and run Apache.

  Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company originally 
got in and used nginx instead of Apache.

  So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is doing.

  Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently all of 
the customer defined login information for the portal too?

  Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

  It’s killing me and my customers right now.

  Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
  Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

  I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM then 
follow their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

  I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config file, 
but that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since. 

  -- 

  Cassidy B. Larson
  CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
  Voice: 435-773-6073
  c...@infowest.com

On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system 
to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up 
with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and 
made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal 
until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web 
requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me t

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Darin Steffl

We use Linode which is similar to Digital Ocean and our IP does not change
when we rebuild a Linode (Droplet in DO terms). It would be crazy if you
had a new IP every time you wanted to reload the OS. For $5 a month, Linode
offers simple and easy VM's.

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 6:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
wrote:

> Ah, that explains it.
>
>
>
> I’ll follow up tomorrow, thanks for your help/responses Simon.
>
>
>
> I guess I’ll just go home too.
>
>
>
> Customers don’t use their internet after hours anyways 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:19 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>
>
>
> We're closed right now. Nobody is going to respond until tomorrow. You can
> give them a call in the morning as well if you'd like to.
>
> On 2/27/2018 6:15 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>
> I’ve been responding to support emails from your team, and just sent
> another email just now.
>
>
>
> Not getting a lot of response back.
>
>
>
> I figured out how to reset it with digitalocean, so I can do that, just
> not sure if your team is working on it as is, or if they want it reset now?
>
>
>
> They need to reply to my emails.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:11 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>
>
>
> You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change with the
> IP.
>
> If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick and
> painless process.
>
> On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>
> The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP address.
>
>
>
> There is a lot tied to that IP address now.
>
> A and  name records, email server records to allow relay, firewall
> config etc.
>
>
>
> I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in place?
>
>
>
> How do I do that with a droplet?
>
>
>
> Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just resets
> the whole damn install to initial config?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>
>
>
> There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The step by
> step walk through is at https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/
> wiki.
>
> We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so we can
> just walk through the install process. There is no customer login
> information in the portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This can be solved
> very quickly with a fresh server, and just letting our staff set it up for
> you.
>
> On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>
> That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it decided to
> just corrupt or something.
>
>
>
> They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they had to
> disable nginx and run Apache.
>
> Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company originally
> got in and used nginx instead of Apache.
>
>
>
> So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is doing.
>
>
>
> Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently all of
> the customer defined login information for the portal too?
>
> Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.
>
>
>
> It’s killing me and my customers right now.
>
>
>
> Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Cassidy B. Larson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>
>
>
> I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM then
> follow their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
>
> I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config file,
> but that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since.
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Cassidy B. Larson
> CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
> Voice: 435-773-6073 <(435)%20773-6073>
> c...@infowest.com
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Again, I'm complet

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Ah, that explains it.

I’ll follow up tomorrow, thanks for your help/responses Simon.

I guess I’ll just go home too.

Customers don’t use their internet after hours anyways 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

We're closed right now. Nobody is going to respond until tomorrow. You can give 
them a call in the morning as well if you'd like to.
On 2/27/2018 6:15 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
I’ve been responding to support emails from your team, and just sent another 
email just now.

Not getting a lot of response back.

I figured out how to reset it with digitalocean, so I can do that, just not 
sure if your team is working on it as is, or if they want it reset now?

They need to reply to my emails.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change with the IP.

If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick and painless 
process.
On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.
A and  name records, email server records to allow relay, firewall config 
etc.

I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just resets the 
whole damn install to initial config?



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The step by step 
walk through is at https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.

We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so we can just 
walk through the install process. There is no customer login information in the 
portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This can be solved very quickly with a fresh 
server, and just letting our staff set it up for you.
On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it decided to just 
corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they had to disable 
nginx and run Apache.
Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company originally got in 
and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently all of the 
customer defined login information for the portal too?
Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM then follow 
their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config file, but 
that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since.

--

Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com<mailto:c...@infowest.com>







On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to host 
the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests and 
appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
color marks.

What a PITA.






--

Simon Westlake | CE

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

We're closed right now. Nobody is going to respond until tomorrow. You 
can give them a call in the morning as well if you'd like to.


On 2/27/2018 6:15 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


I’ve been responding to support emails from your team, and just sent 
another email just now.


Not getting a lot of response back.

I figured out how to reset it with digitalocean, so I can do that, 
just not sure if your team is working on it as is, or if they want it 
reset now?


They need to reply to my emails.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change with 
the IP.


If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick and 
painless process.


On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP
address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.

A and  name records, email server records to allow relay,
firewall config etc.

I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in
place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just
resets the whole damn install to initial config?

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The
step by step walk through is at
https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.

We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so
we can just walk through the install process. There is no customer
login information in the portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This
can be solved very quickly with a fresh server, and just letting
our staff set it up for you.

On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it
decided to just corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but
they had to disable nginx and run Apache.

Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company
originally got in and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right
hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and
apparently all of the customer defined login information for
the portal too?

Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Cassidy B. Larson
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock
ubuntu VM then follow their install instructions and done.
Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the
config file, but that was really it. I haven’t looked at it
much since.

-- 


Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com <mailto:c...@infowest.com>





On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of
their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own
linux system to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't
immediately synched up with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with
customers and made a billing change in Sonar and the
customer can't see it in the portal until an unspecified
amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding
to web requests and appears offline to my customers, for
over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start
over, which if I remember, cost me a few hours of time to
arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL,
logo placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I’ve been responding to support emails from your team, and just sent another 
email just now.

Not getting a lot of response back.

I figured out how to reset it with digitalocean, so I can do that, just not 
sure if your team is working on it as is, or if they want it reset now?

They need to reply to my emails.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change with the IP.

If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick and painless 
process.
On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.
A and  name records, email server records to allow relay, firewall config 
etc.

I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just resets the 
whole damn install to initial config?



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The step by step 
walk through is at https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.

We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so we can just 
walk through the install process. There is no customer login information in the 
portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This can be solved very quickly with a fresh 
server, and just letting our staff set it up for you.
On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it decided to just 
corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they had to disable 
nginx and run Apache.
Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company originally got in 
and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently all of the 
customer defined login information for the portal too?
Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM then follow 
their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config file, but 
that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since.

--

Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com<mailto:c...@infowest.com>






On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to host 
the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests and 
appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
color marks.

What a PITA.





--

Simon Westlake | CEO

simon@sonar.software<mailto:simon@sonar.software>

(702) 447-1247

https://sonar.software



--

Simon Westlake | CEO

simon@sonar.software<mailto:simon@sonar.software>

(702) 447-1247

https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

You just reload the OS through DigitalOcean. Nothing will change with 
the IP.


If you work through this with our support team, it will be a quick and 
painless process.


On 2/27/2018 5:55 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.

A and  name records, email server records to allow relay, firewall 
config etc.


I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just 
resets the whole damn install to initial config?


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The step 
by step walk through is at 
https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.


We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so we 
can just walk through the install process. There is no customer login 
information in the portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This can be 
solved very quickly with a fresh server, and just letting our staff 
set it up for you.


On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it
decided to just corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they
had to disable nginx and run Apache.

Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company
originally got in and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is
doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently
all of the customer defined login information for the portal too?

Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cassidy B.
Larson
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu
VM then follow their install instructions and done. Easy peasy
lemon squeezy.

I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the
config file, but that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much
since.

-- 


Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com <mailto:c...@infowest.com>




On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their
system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own
linux system to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately
synched up with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with
customers and made a billing change in Sonar and the customer
can't see it in the portal until an unspecified amount of time
goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to
web requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a
day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start
over, which if I remember, cost me a few hours of time to
arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL, logo
placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar
actually had themselves a hosted client page I could slap my
logo on and change a few CSS color marks.

What a PITA.



--
Simon Westlake | CEO
simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
(702) 447-1247
https://sonar.software


--
Simon Westlake | CEO
simon@sonar.software
(702) 447-1247
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

The problem with wiping is that I’m not guaranteed the same IP address.

There is a lot tied to that IP address now.
A and  name records, email server records to allow relay, firewall config 
etc.

I’m not sure digital ocean has an option to just nuke an image in place?

How do I do that with a droplet?

Or is there a ubuntu option that I can run from within, that just resets the 
whole damn install to initial config?



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The step by step 
walk through is at https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.

We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so we can just 
walk through the install process. There is no customer login information in the 
portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This can be solved very quickly with a fresh 
server, and just letting our staff set it up for you.
On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it decided to just 
corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they had to disable 
nginx and run Apache.
Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company originally got in 
and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently all of the 
customer defined login information for the portal too?
Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM then follow 
their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config file, but 
that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since.

--

Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com<mailto:c...@infowest.com>





On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to host 
the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests and 
appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
color marks.

What a PITA.




--

Simon Westlake | CEO

simon@sonar.software<mailto:simon@sonar.software>

(702) 447-1247

https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Steve Jones

we almost pulled the trigger with them, but we were in bed with powercode.
Azotel had an awesome salesguy, cant remember his name, but I was amazed
they didnt gain more traction

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com> wrote:

>
> Josh
> Not a penny
> Love the product and believe it is great
> it has saved me money time and frustration over the years...
> I was the very first US customer for Azotel
> Mitch
>
>
> On 2/27/2018 2:49 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> I’d still like to know how much Azotel is paying you to do their
> marketing.
>
> :)
>
> On Feb 27, 2018, at 3:28 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com> wrote:
>
> Hey guys
>
> Maybe time to revisit Azotel
>
> No problems at all for h 7 or 8 years
>
>
> Mitch
>
> On 2/27/2018 1:52 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I think they ought to setup and customize the server for you if that is a
> requirement.
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 12:31 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>
> Agreed. It's awesome that degree of customization and capability is there.
> I suspect most just want the basics.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net> <sterl...@avative.net>
> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>
> Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.
>
> Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.
>
> Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to
> host the web/portal system.
> Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up
> with their main system on any changes.
>
> I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and
> made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal
> until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.
>
> NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests
> and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.
>
> Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if
> I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6
> changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.
>
> I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
> I'll definitely fix that this time.
>
> But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had
> themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few
> CSS color marks.
>
> What a PITA.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

There is only one way to install it. It has never used nginx. The step 
by step walk through is at 
https://github.com/SonarSoftware/customer_portal/wiki.


We are happy to install it for you, if you wipe the server out so we can 
just walk through the install process. There is no customer login 
information in the portal. It is stored inside Sonar. This can be solved 
very quickly with a fresh server, and just letting our staff set it up 
for you.


On 2/27/2018 4:41 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it decided 
to just corrupt or something.


They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they had 
to disable nginx and run Apache.


Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company 
originally got in and used nginx instead of Apache.


So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently all 
of the customer defined login information for the portal too?


Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cassidy B. Larson
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM 
then follow their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.


I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config 
file, but that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since.


--

Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com <mailto:c...@infowest.com>



On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux
system to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately
synched up with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers
and made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it
in the portal until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it
updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web
requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over,
which if I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS,
SSH access, IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc
beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually
had themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and
change a few CSS color marks.

What a PITA.



--
Simon Westlake | CEO
simon@sonar.software
(702) 447-1247
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

That’s what I was hoping with this, but no, out of the blue it decided to just 
corrupt or something.

They got it working to the degree that it shows up now, but they had to disable 
nginx and run Apache.
Which is odd, because I think someone else from their company originally got in 
and used nginx instead of Apache.

So their left hand doesn’t appear to know what their right hand is doing.

Anywho, it’s still F’ed up because I lost my logo, and apparently all of the 
customer defined login information for the portal too?
Not sure, but no one can actually log in to pay yet.

It’s killing me and my customers right now.

Cassidy, is yours running Apache or nginx?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM then follow 
their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config file, but 
that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since.

--

Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com<mailto:c...@infowest.com>




On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to host 
the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests and 
appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
color marks.

What a PITA.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Josh
Not a penny
Love the product and believe it is great
it has saved me money time and frustration over the years...
I was the very first US customer for Azotel
Mitch

On 2/27/2018 2:49 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
I’d still like to know how much Azotel is paying you to do their
marketing.

On Feb 27, 2018, at 3:28 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com
<mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:

Hey guys

Maybe time to revisit Azotel

No problems at all for h 7 or 8 years

Mitch

On 2/27/2018 1:52 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I think they ought to setup and customize the server for you if that
is a requirement.

*From:* Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 27, 2018 12:31 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
Agreed. It's awesome that degree of customization and capability is
there. I suspect most just want the basics.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
*To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux
system to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched
up with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers
and made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in
the portal until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it
updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web
requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over,
which if I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH
access, IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond
their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually
had themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and
change a few CSS color marks.

What a PITA.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Josh Baird

I’d still like to know how much Azotel is paying you to do their marketing.

:)

> On Feb 27, 2018, at 3:28 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey guys
> 
> Maybe time to revisit Azotel
> 
> No problems at all for h 7 or 8 years
> 
> 
> Mitch
> 
> On 2/27/2018 1:52 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> I think they ought to setup and customize the server for you if that is a 
>> requirement. 
>>  
>> From: Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 12:31 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>>  
>> Agreed. It's awesome that degree of customization and capability is there. I 
>> suspect most just want the basics.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal
>> 
>> Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.
>> 
>> Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.
>> 
>> Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to 
>> host the web/portal system.
>> Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
>> their main system on any changes.
>> 
>> I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made 
>> a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until 
>> an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.
>> 
>> NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests 
>> and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.
>> 
>> Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
>> remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
>> changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.
>> 
>> I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
>> I'll definitely fix that this time.
>> 
>> But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
>> themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
>> color marks.
>> 
>> What a PITA.
>>  
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Hey guys

Maybe time to revisit Azotel

No problems at all for h 7 or 8 years

Mitch

On 2/27/2018 1:52 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I think they ought to setup and customize the server for you if that
is a requirement.

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
*To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system
to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up
with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and
made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the
portal until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates
magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web
requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which
if I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access,
IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial
load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a
few CSS color marks.

What a PITA.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

I have had zero issues with their portal code. Just stock ubuntu VM then follow 
their install instructions and done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I customized the logo and some text on the main page via the config file, but 
that was really it. I haven’t looked at it much since.

--

Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com



> On Feb 27, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.
> 
> Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.
> 
> Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to 
> host the web/portal system.
> Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
> their main system on any changes.
> 
> I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
> billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
> unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.
> 
> NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests 
> and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.
> 
> Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
> remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
> changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.
> 
> I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
> I'll definitely fix that this time.
> 
> But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
> themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
> color marks.
> 
> What a PITA.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

We do.

On 2/27/2018 1:52 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I think they ought to setup and customize the server for you if that
is a requirement.

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
*To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system
to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up
with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and
made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the
portal until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates
magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web
requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which
if I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access,
IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial
load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a
few CSS color marks.

What a PITA.

--
Simon Westlake | CEO
simon@sonar.software
(702) 447-1247
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

We do.

On 2/27/2018 1:52 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I think they ought to setup and customize the server for you if that
is a requirement.

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
*To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system
to host the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up
with their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and
made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the
portal until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates
magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web
requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which
if I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access,
IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial
load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a
few CSS color marks.

What a PITA.

--
Simon Westlake | CEO
simon@sonar.software
(702) 447-1247
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread chuck

I think they ought to setup and customize the server for you if that is a 
requirement.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 12:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Agreed. It's awesome that degree of customization and capability is there. I 
suspect most just want the basics.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to host 
the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests and 
appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
color marks.

What a PITA.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Adair Winter

And yet you still pay more than some other systems per user per month.

On Feb 27, 2018 1:12 PM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

> Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.
>
> Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.
>
> Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to
> host the web/portal system.
> Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up
> with their main system on any changes.
>
> I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and
> made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal
> until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.
>
> NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests
> and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.
>
> Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if
> I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6
> changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.
>
> I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
> I'll definitely fix that this time.
>
> But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had
> themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few
> CSS color marks.
>
> What a PITA.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Mike Hammett

Agreed. It's awesome that degree of customization and capability is there. I 
suspect most just want the basics. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net> 
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:12:56 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal 

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar. 

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system. 

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to host 
the web/portal system. 
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
their main system on any changes. 

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically. 

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests and 
appears offline to my customers, for over a day now. 

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load. 

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it. 
I'll definitely fix that this time. 

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
color marks. 

What a PITA.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

2018-02-27 Thread Gino A. Villarini

Agreed, maybe they don¹t want the liability?

On 2/27/18, 3:12 PM, "Af on behalf of Sterling Jacobson"



Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

 wrote:

>Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.
>
>Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.
>
>Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to
>host the web/portal system.
>Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up
>with their main system on any changes.
>
>I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and
>made a billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the
>portal until an unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates
>magically.
>
>NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web
>requests and appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.
>
>Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if
>I remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access,
>IPv4/6 changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial
>load.
>
>I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
>I'll definitely fix that this time.
>
>But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had
>themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few
>CSS color marks.
>
>What a PITA.

[AFMUG] Sonar Billing Portal

Again, I'm completely flummoxed by Sonar.

Apparently their customer portal isn't really a part of their system.

Any Sonar customer has to purchase and maintain their own linux system to host 
the web/portal system.
Then that ties into their main system BUT isn't immediately synched up with 
their main system on any changes.

I've had several times where I've been on the phone with customers and made a 
billing change in Sonar and the customer can't see it in the portal until an 
unspecified amount of time goes by and it updates magically.

NOW my portal is completely out of the blue not responding to web requests and 
appears offline to my customers, for over a day now.

Sonar can't figure it out and want me to nuke it and start over, which if I 
remember, cost me a few hours of time to arrange DNS, SSH access, IPv4/6 
changes, firewall, SSL, logo placement etc beyond their initial load.

I blame myself for not having set up incremental backups of it.
I'll definitely fix that this time.

But man it would have been so much more simpler if Sonar actually had 
themselves a hosted client page I could slap my logo on and change a few CSS 
color marks.

What a PITA.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-16 Thread Josh Luthman

I would move to Sonar just to avoid Platypus for the most part.  That's
before we even discuss the more modern tools and capabilities.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 10:23 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
wrote:

> Plat is great, and Sonar costs more, but I wanted a more modern system and
> I was constantly fighting small glitches and bugs in the system including
> PCI compliance.
>
>
>
> Also I don’t want to host anything myself anymore, it’s a hassel to
> maintain and back up the database reliably.
>
>
>
> And it has more of the features I want going forward, hopefully.
>
>
>
> I’m kind of regretting it right now, but I’m hoping it pans out sooner
> than later.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Rankin
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2018 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> I’m curious, why change. I really like Plat and it does everything I need.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:52 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
> Platypus to Sonar.
>
> It's not automatic by any means.
>
> Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.
>
> I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
> changes, address validations etc.
>
> They appear to be understaffed.
>
> A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just didn't
> realize that.
>
> Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
> Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting
> company, and have to maintain it yourself.
> Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third party
> account and pay/manage them.
>
> This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.
>
> I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I shudder
> to think how that would have migrated.
>
> Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database and
> Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.
>
> I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data isn't
> out of sync with the new system until it comes online.
>
> That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay
> bills and I'm stuck in the middle.
>
> Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.
>
> Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to rates
> on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.
>
> Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm
> also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some days.
>
> --
>
> Philip J. Rankin
>
> Wireless Telecommunications Services
> PO Box 24
> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-16 Thread Philip Rankin



On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:23 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
wrote:

> Plat is great, and Sonar costs more, but I wanted a more modern system and
> I was constantly fighting small glitches and bugs in the system including
> PCI compliance.
>
>
>
> Also I don’t want to host anything myself anymore, it’s a hassel to
> maintain and back up the database reliably.
>
>
>
> And it has more of the features I want going forward, hopefully.
>
>
>
> I’m kind of regretting it right now, but I’m hoping it pans out sooner
> than later.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Rankin
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2018 11:59 AM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> I’m curious, why change. I really like Plat and it does everything I need.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:52 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
> Platypus to Sonar.
>
> It's not automatic by any means.
>
> Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.
>
> I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
> changes, address validations etc.
>
> They appear to be understaffed.
>
> A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just didn't
> realize that.
>
> Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
> Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting
> company, and have to maintain it yourself.
> Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third party
> account and pay/manage them.
>
> This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.
>
> I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I shudder
> to think how that would have migrated.
>
> Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database and
> Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.
>
> I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data isn't
> out of sync with the new system until it comes online.
>
> That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay
> bills and I'm stuck in the middle.
>
> Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.
>
> Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to rates
> on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.
>
> Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm
> also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some days.
>
> --
>
> Philip J. Rankin
>
> Wireless Telecommunications Services
> PO Box 24
> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>
-- 
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-15 Thread Sterling Jacobson

Plat is great, and Sonar costs more, but I wanted a more modern system and I 
was constantly fighting small glitches and bugs in the system including PCI 
compliance.

Also I don’t want to host anything myself anymore, it’s a hassel to maintain 
and back up the database reliably.

And it has more of the features I want going forward, hopefully.

I’m kind of regretting it right now, but I’m hoping it pans out sooner than 
later.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Philip Rankin
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

I’m curious, why change. I really like Plat and it does everything I need.

Phil

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:52 PM Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from Platypus to 
Sonar.

It's not automatic by any means.

Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.

I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group changes, 
address validations etc.

They appear to be understaffed.

A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just didn't 
realize that.

Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting company, 
and have to maintain it yourself.
Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third party 
account and pay/manage them.

This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.

I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I shudder to 
think how that would have migrated.

Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database and Plat 
could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.

I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data isn't out of 
sync with the new system until it comes online.

That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay bills 
and I'm stuck in the middle.

Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.

Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to rates on 
customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.

Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm also 
crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some days.

--
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-14 Thread Philip Rankin

I’m curious, why change. I really like Plat and it does everything I need.

Phil

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:52 PM Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
> Platypus to Sonar.
>
> It's not automatic by any means.
>
> Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.
>
> I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
> changes, address validations etc.
>
> They appear to be understaffed.
>
> A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just didn't
> realize that.
>
> Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
> Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting
> company, and have to maintain it yourself.
> Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third party
> account and pay/manage them.
>
> This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.
>
> I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I shudder
> to think how that would have migrated.
>
> Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database and
> Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.
>
> I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data isn't
> out of sync with the new system until it comes online.
>
> That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay
> bills and I'm stuck in the middle.
>
> Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.
>
> Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to rates
> on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.
>
> Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm
> also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some days.
>
>
> --
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-12 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

The Sonar portal instance stores individual accounts in Sonar. Under 
General->Contacts->drop down (Portal Credentials).
The Sonar portal doesn’t store anything locally, just like Platypus.  I’m not 
sure why this is an issue for you now as it is the same for Platypus.  Sonar 
portal connects back via API to your Sonar instance. You just run a VM with 
their code (which is more secure than the platypus one), which has a handy 
dandy installer and you’re done.  The platypus web portal was MUCH harder to 
setup than Sonar’s.

We went through the migration as well early last year and elected to have 
people re-create their accounts the first time they paid their bill or tried to 
login. They’d get an email to the email address on file in Sonar and they got 
in. Easy peasy.  This was so we didn’t keep insecure passwords that were stored 
in plain text in Platypus. Sure it sucked the first month, but it’s more secure 
and they get much better experience via the Sonar portal than they ever did via 
Platypus one. If you want to set all their credentials to the same as it was 
with Plat, I guess you could do that as well. We just put a banner on the 
portal the first few months saying “hey, we switched billing systems, click the 
button below and we’ll email you a new portal credentials login request”.

We did a lot of our data export from Plat and import into Sonar ourselves with 
help from Sonar (Simon) on the import.  It took a bunch of go’s to make sure it 
worked right and we got everything we needed. We kept working through what we 
needed to get of Plat and getting it validated into Sonar until it was more or 
less ready to go. Then one night we shut plat, did the export, import into 
sonar and the next morning all our users and staff used Sonar going forward.

-c

--

Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
c...@infowest.com

> On Jan 12, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
> 
> Plat encrypts stuff, but you can see their account password if you elect to I 
> guess.
> So yeah, that could have carried over I think.
> 
> BUT it appears to be two different systems with Sonar at that point.
> There is the Sonar instance, and then a completely separate website portal 
> instance which stores it’s own username/password I guess.
> That’s different from Plat, where Plat does have a separate website instance, 
> but it just a front for the SQL database.
> Sonar appears to be more new in that it has it’s own published API fronting 
> the database and the portal instance uses that I guess.
> 
> Yes, I am paying them during the transition period, but I got them to just 
> charge me the base amount per month while we do it.
> Transition was ‘free’. Which in my case means I still spent about $1000 to 
> have Spencer Lambert use some half broken scripting to “mostly” move my data 
> over. It was still well worth that money to save me time transferring 
> accounts and preserving autopay information though.
> 
> 
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:12 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
> 
> So you're paying them monthly and being charged to migrate?  Seems harsh.
> 
> You're paying someone to migrate and fixing it yourself?  What are you paying 
> for?
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 8:16 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> Doesn't Plat store things in plaintext? Why can't that be carried over?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:47:23 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
> 
> It gets worse.
> 
> I wasn’t aware

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-12 Thread Sterling Jacobson

Plat encrypts stuff, but you can see their account password if you elect to I 
guess.
So yeah, that could have carried over I think.

BUT it appears to be two different systems with Sonar at that point.
There is the Sonar instance, and then a completely separate website portal 
instance which stores it’s own username/password I guess.
That’s different from Plat, where Plat does have a separate website instance, 
but it just a front for the SQL database.
Sonar appears to be more new in that it has it’s own published API fronting the 
database and the portal instance uses that I guess.

Yes, I am paying them during the transition period, but I got them to just 
charge me the base amount per month while we do it.
Transition was ‘free’. Which in my case means I still spent about $1000 to have 
Spencer Lambert use some half broken scripting to “mostly” move my data over. 
It was still well worth that money to save me time transferring accounts and 
preserving autopay information though.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

So you're paying them monthly and being charged to migrate?  Seems harsh.

You're paying someone to migrate and fixing it yourself?  What are you paying 
for?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 8:16 AM, Mike Hammett 
<af...@ics-il.net<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Doesn't Plat store things in plaintext? Why can't that be carried over?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:47:23 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
It gets worse.

I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to re-create 
their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from Plat.
I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal for your 
customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification or link asking them 
to re-create that info or make new credentials based off their account email 
address.

What a cluster F

I’m going to cry

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Well, I manually fixed all my account types.

Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT nothing 
works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.

I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.

It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.

Damnit!


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance company which 
was migrating systems.
As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart enough to 
solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.


-- Original Message --
From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
<par...@cyberbroadband.net<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus



we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards to 350 
customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter data.  Too 
risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  I've had them do 
the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything.  I'm not sure at 
t

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-12 Thread Josh Luthman

So you're paying them monthly and being charged to migrate?  Seems harsh.

You're paying someone to migrate and fixing it yourself?  What are you
paying for?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 8:16 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Doesn't Plat store things in plaintext? Why can't that be carried over?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:47:23 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
> It gets worse.
>
>
>
> I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to re-create
> their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from Plat.
>
> I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal for
> your customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification or link
> asking them to re-create that info or make new credentials based off their
> account email address.
>
>
>
> What a cluster F
>
>
>
> I’m going to cry
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> Well, I manually fixed all my account types.
>
>
>
> Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT
> nothing works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.
>
>
>
> I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.
>
>
>
> It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.
>
>
>
> Damnit!
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance company
> which was migrating systems.
>
> As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart enough
> to solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards to
> 350 customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter
> data.  Too risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.
> I've had them do the data entry and I've come behind them to check
> everything.  I'm not sure at this point I'd do it any other way.   I
> remember Evan doing something similar - he had 3-4-5 data entry people
> entering people at one time during a conversion.
>
>
>
> It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good
> feeling.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
> >Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go
> >through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
> >
> >Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
> >
> >It isn't.
> >
> >I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-12 Thread Mike Hammett

Doesn't Plat store things in plaintext? Why can't that be carried over? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:47:23 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 



It gets worse. 

I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to re-create 
their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from Plat. 
I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal for your 
customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification or link asking them 
to re-create that info or make new credentials based off their account email 
address. 

What a cluster F 

I’m going to cry 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 

Well, I manually fixed all my account types. 

Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT nothing 
works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again. 

I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this. 

It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR. 

Damnit! 




From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 


My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance company which 
was migrating systems. 

As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart enough to 
solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory. 





-- Original Message -- 

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 









we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards to 350 
customers / devices. Each time I've had our people manually enter data. Too 
risk adverse of import problems or things not working right. I've had them do 
the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything. I'm not sure at 
this point I'd do it any other way. I remember Evan doing something similar - 
he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at one time during a conversion. 



It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good feeling. 







- Original Message - 

From: Adam Moffett 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 


Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything. 


-- Original Message -- 
From: "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 

>Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go 
>through every account to make sure it worked out and reload. 
> 
>Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money? 
> 
>It isn't. 
> 
>I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure 
>things were generally ok. 
>Then modify/update the ones that have problems. 
> 
>Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from 
>scratch. 
> 
>What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and get 
>running. 
> 
>So not the case. 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message- 
>From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
>Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM 
>To: af@afmug.com 
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 
> 
>If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API 
>to write a script to set everything up. I think the idea is you can 
>test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try 
>again if you have problems. Repeat until your script does everything 
>you want. Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process. 
> 
>I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have 
>been in one of the videos. 
> 
>-Adam 
> 
> 
>-- Original Message -- 
>From: "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > 
>To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
>Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM 
>Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus 
> 
>>So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from 
>>Platypus to Sonar. 
>> 
>>It's not automatic by any means. 
>> 
>>Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot 
>>extra. 
>> 
>>I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate gro

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-11 Thread Josh Reynolds

Kind of makes sense. The user stuff wouldn't be able to do that though.

Honestly it sounds like most of the stuff you've been talking about is
from Sonar being shortstaffed leading up to the new 2.0 release right
around Christmas, and training of the wispmon people. Other than that,
these are the pains you encounter when switching between companies
like this.

I think you'll be happy in the end with your decision.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
> I think in the case of the CC info it was already encrypted and moved over as 
> such, but so was the key.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:20 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
> If you were able to transfer it over, that means it was either (A) not 
> encrypted to being with, or (B) was decrypted upon export. Either way it 
> would have transferred via cleartext. *shrug*
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:16 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
> wrote:
>> Well, I guess that does make sense in some regards.
>>
>> But in Plat it's not for the username/password.
>>
>> The CC information is encrypted, but thankfully they WERE able to transfer 
>> all of those over as far as I can tell.
>>
>> At least customer won't have to put THAT information in again.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:59 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>> You would have to do that with any platform, as those passwords should be 
>> salted+hash, which is one-way encryption.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
>> wrote:
>>> It gets worse.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to
>>> re-create their account login credentials because they don’t carry over 
>>> from Plat.
>>>
>>> I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal
>>> for your customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification
>>> or link asking them to re-create that info or make new credentials
>>> based off their account email address.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What a cluster F
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m going to cry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I manually fixed all my account types.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT
>>> nothing works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Damnit!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance
>>> company which was migrating systems.
>>>
>>> As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart
>>> enough to solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in 
>>> theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>>
>>> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards
>>> to 350 customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter 
>>> data.
>>> Too risk adverse of import problems or things not wor

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

I think in the case of the CC info it was already encrypted and moved over as 
such, but so was the key.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

If you were able to transfer it over, that means it was either (A) not 
encrypted to being with, or (B) was decrypted upon export. Either way it would 
have transferred via cleartext. *shrug*

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:16 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
wrote:
> Well, I guess that does make sense in some regards.
>
> But in Plat it's not for the username/password.
>
> The CC information is encrypted, but thankfully they WERE able to transfer 
> all of those over as far as I can tell.
>
> At least customer won't have to put THAT information in again.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:59 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
> You would have to do that with any platform, as those passwords should be 
> salted+hash, which is one-way encryption.
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
> wrote:
>> It gets worse.
>>
>>
>>
>> I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to 
>> re-create their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from 
>> Plat.
>>
>> I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal 
>> for your customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification 
>> or link asking them to re-create that info or make new credentials 
>> based off their account email address.
>>
>>
>>
>> What a cluster F
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m going to cry
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
>>
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I manually fixed all my account types.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT 
>> nothing works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.
>>
>>
>>
>> Damnit!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance 
>> company which was migrating systems.
>>
>> As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart 
>> enough to solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards 
>> to 350 customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter 
>> data.
>> Too risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  
>> I've had them do the data entry and I've come behind them to check 
>> everything.  I'm
>> not sure at this point I'd do it any other way.   I remember Evan doing
>> something similar - he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at 
>> one time during a conversion.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty 
>> good feeling.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>
>> From: Adam Moffett
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 1/10

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-11 Thread Josh Reynolds

If you were able to transfer it over, that means it was either (A) not
encrypted to being with, or (B) was decrypted upon export. Either way
it would have transferred via cleartext. *shrug*

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:16 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
> Well, I guess that does make sense in some regards.
>
> But in Plat it's not for the username/password.
>
> The CC information is encrypted, but thankfully they WERE able to transfer 
> all of those over as far as I can tell.
>
> At least customer won't have to put THAT information in again.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:59 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
> You would have to do that with any platform, as those passwords should be 
> salted+hash, which is one-way encryption.
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
> wrote:
>> It gets worse.
>>
>>
>>
>> I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to
>> re-create their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from 
>> Plat.
>>
>> I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal for
>> your customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification or
>> link asking them to re-create that info or make new credentials based
>> off their account email address.
>>
>>
>>
>> What a cluster F
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m going to cry
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
>>
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I manually fixed all my account types.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT
>> nothing works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.
>>
>>
>>
>> Damnit!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance
>> company which was migrating systems.
>>
>> As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart
>> enough to solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards
>> to 350 customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter 
>> data.
>> Too risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  I've
>> had them do the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything.  
>> I'm
>> not sure at this point I'd do it any other way.   I remember Evan doing
>> something similar - he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at
>> one time during a conversion.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good
>> feeling.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>
>> From: Adam Moffett
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>>Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go
>>>through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
>>>
>>>Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
>>>
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Well, I guess that does make sense in some regards.

But in Plat it's not for the username/password.

The CC information is encrypted, but thankfully they WERE able to transfer all 
of those over as far as I can tell.

At least customer won't have to put THAT information in again.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

You would have to do that with any platform, as those passwords should be 
salted+hash, which is one-way encryption.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
wrote:
> It gets worse.
>
>
>
> I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to 
> re-create their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from 
> Plat.
>
> I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal for 
> your customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification or 
> link asking them to re-create that info or make new credentials based 
> off their account email address.
>
>
>
> What a cluster F
>
>
>
> I’m going to cry
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> Well, I manually fixed all my account types.
>
>
>
> Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT 
> nothing works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.
>
>
>
> I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.
>
>
>
> It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.
>
>
>
> Damnit!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance 
> company which was migrating systems.
>
> As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart 
> enough to solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards 
> to 350 customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter 
> data.
> Too risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  I've 
> had them do the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything.  I'm
> not sure at this point I'd do it any other way.   I remember Evan doing
> something similar - he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at 
> one time during a conversion.
>
>
>
> It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good 
> feeling.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: Adam Moffett
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>>Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go 
>>through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
>>
>>Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
>>
>>It isn't.
>>
>>I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure 
>>things were generally ok.
>>Then modify/update the ones that have problems.
>>
>>Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from 
>>scratch.
>>
>>What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and 
>>get running.
>>
>>So not the case.
>>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
>>To: af@afmug.com
>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API 
>>to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can 
>>test your import

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-11 Thread Josh Reynolds

You would have to do that with any platform, as those passwords should
be salted+hash, which is one-way encryption.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
> It gets worse.
>
>
>
> I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to re-create
> their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from Plat.
>
> I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal for your
> customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification or link asking
> them to re-create that info or make new credentials based off their account
> email address.
>
>
>
> What a cluster F
>
>
>
> I’m going to cry
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> Well, I manually fixed all my account types.
>
>
>
> Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT nothing
> works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.
>
>
>
> I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.
>
>
>
> It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.
>
>
>
> Damnit!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance company
> which was migrating systems.
>
> As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart enough to
> solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards to 350
> customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter data.
> Too risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  I've had
> them do the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything.  I'm
> not sure at this point I'd do it any other way.   I remember Evan doing
> something similar - he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at one
> time during a conversion.
>
>
>
> It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good
> feeling.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: Adam Moffett
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>
>
> Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>>Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go
>>through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
>>
>>Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
>>
>>It isn't.
>>
>>I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure
>>things were generally ok.
>>Then modify/update the ones that have problems.
>>
>>Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from
>>scratch.
>>
>>What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and get
>>running.
>>
>>So not the case.
>>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
>>To: af@afmug.com
>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>>
>>If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API
>>to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can
>>test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try
>>again if you have problems.  Repeat until your script does everything
>>you want.  Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process.
>>
>>I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have
>>been in one of the videos.
>>
>>-Adam
>>
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
>>To: "af@afmug.com" &

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

It gets worse.

I wasn’t aware that ALL of my customers are now going to have to re-create 
their account login credentials because they don’t carry over from Plat.
I guess this is universal with SONAR, if you want a billing portal for your 
customers, they will ALL have to be sent some notification or link asking them 
to re-create that info or make new credentials based off their account email 
address.

What a cluster F

I’m going to cry

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Well, I manually fixed all my account types.

Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT nothing 
works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.

I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.

It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.

Damnit!


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance company which 
was migrating systems.
As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart enough to 
solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.


-- Original Message --
From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
<par...@cyberbroadband.net<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus



we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards to 350 
customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter data.  Too 
risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  I've had them do 
the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything.  I'm not sure at 
this point I'd do it any other way.   I remember Evan doing something similar - 
he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at one time during a conversion.

It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good feeling.


- Original Message -
From: Adam Moffett<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.


-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

>Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go
>through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
>
>Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
>
>It isn't.
>
>I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure
>things were generally ok.
>Then modify/update the ones that have problems.
>
>Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from
>scratch.
>
>What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and get
>running.
>
>So not the case.
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
>Of Adam Moffett
>Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API
>to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can
>test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try
>again if you have problems.  Repeat until your script does everything
>you want.  Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process.
>
>I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have
>been in one of the videos.
>
>-Adam
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
>To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
>Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM
>Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>>So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
>>Platypus to Sonar.
>>
>>It's not automatic by any means.
>>
>>Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot
>>extra.
>>
>>I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
>>changes, address validations etc.
>>
>>They appear to be understaffed.
>>
>>A lo

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Well, I manually fixed all my account types.

Now, a week later, the billing portal hosted part is showing up, BUT nothing 
works, no login and their guy Jacob is MIA again.

I’ve had accounts and cash flow FROZEN for a week for this.

It’s crazy, I’m about to lose my mind with SONAR.

Damnit!


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance company which 
was migrating systems.
As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart enough to 
solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in theory.


-- Original Message --
From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
<par...@cyberbroadband.net<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus



we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards to 350 
customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter data.  Too 
risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  I've had them do 
the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything.  I'm not sure at 
this point I'd do it any other way.   I remember Evan doing something similar - 
he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at one time during a conversion.

It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good feeling.


- Original Message -
From: Adam Moffett<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.


-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

>Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go
>through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
>
>Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
>
>It isn't.
>
>I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure
>things were generally ok.
>Then modify/update the ones that have problems.
>
>Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from
>scratch.
>
>What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and get
>running.
>
>So not the case.
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
>Of Adam Moffett
>Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API
>to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can
>test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try
>again if you have problems.  Repeat until your script does everything
>you want.  Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process.
>
>I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have
>been in one of the videos.
>
>-Adam
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
>To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
>Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM
>Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>>So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
>>Platypus to Sonar.
>>
>>It's not automatic by any means.
>>
>>Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot
>>extra.
>>
>>I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
>>changes, address validations etc.
>>
>>They appear to be understaffed.
>>
>>A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just
>>didn't realize that.
>>
>>Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
>>Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting
>>company, and have to maintain it yourself.
>>Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third
>>party account and pay/manage them.
>>
>>This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.
>>
>>I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I
>>shudder to think how that would have migrated.
>>
>>Also I did

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread Adam Moffett

My wife had a temp job once re-entering accounts for an insurance 
company which was migrating systems.
As long as the human meat computer operating the keyboard is smart 
enough to solve more problems than they create then it sounds good in 
theory.



-- Original Message --
From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/10/2018 6:05:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus




we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards 
to 350 customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually 
enter data.  Too risk adverse of import problems or things not working 
right.  I've had them do the data entry and I've come behind them to 
check everything.  I'm not sure at this point I'd do it any other way.  
 I remember Evan doing something similar - he had 3-4-5 data entry 
people entering people at one time during a conversion.


It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good 
feeling.




- Original Message -
From:Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
To:af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.


-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

>Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go
>through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
>
>Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
>
>It isn't.
>
>I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure
>things were generally ok.
>Then modify/update the ones that have problems.
>
>Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from
>scratch.
>
>What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and 
get

>running.
>
>So not the case.
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the 
API

>to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can
>test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and 
try

>again if you have problems.  Repeat until your script does everything
>you want.  Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process.
>
>I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might 
have

>been in one of the videos.
>
>-Adam
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
>To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM
>Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
>
>>So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
>>Platypus to Sonar.
>>
>>It's not automatic by any means.
>>
>>Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot
>>extra.
>>
>>I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
>>changes, address validations etc.
>>
>>They appear to be understaffed.
>>
>>A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just
>>didn't realize that.
>>
>>Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
>>Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a 
hosting

>>company, and have to maintain it yourself.
>>Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third
>>party account and pay/manage them.
>>
>>This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.
>>
>>I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I
>>shudder to think how that would have migrated.
>>
>>Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their 
database

>>and Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.
>>
>>I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data
>>isn't out of sync with the new system until it comes online.
>>
>>That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to
>>pay
>>bills and I'm stuck in the middle.
>>
>>Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on
>>migration.
>>
>>Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to
>>rates on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.
>>
>>Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but 
I'm

>>also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some
>>days.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller


we have done something like 3...maybe 4 purchases of networks upwards to 350 
customers / devices.  Each time I've had our people manually enter data.  Too 
risk adverse of import problems or things not working right.  I've had them do 
the data entry and I've come behind them to check everything.  I'm not sure at 
this point I'd do it any other way.   I remember Evan doing something similar - 
he had 3-4-5 data entry people entering people at one time during a conversion.

It is never pretty but in the end when you're done it is a pretty good feeling.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Adam Moffett 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus


  Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
  To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

  >Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go 
  >through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.
  >
  >Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?
  >
  >It isn't.
  >
  >I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure 
  >things were generally ok.
  >Then modify/update the ones that have problems.
  >
  >Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from 
  >scratch.
  >
  >What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and get 
  >running.
  >
  >So not the case.
  >
  >
  >
  >-Original Message-
  >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
  >Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
  >To: af@afmug.com
  >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
  >
  >If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API 
  >to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can 
  >test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try 
  >again if you have problems.  Repeat until your script does everything 
  >you want.  Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process.
  >
  >I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have 
  >been in one of the videos.
  >
  >-Adam
  >
  >
  >-- Original Message --
  >From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
  >To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
  >Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM
  >Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus
  >
  >>So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
  >>Platypus to Sonar.
  >>
  >>It's not automatic by any means.
  >>
  >>Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot
  >>extra.
  >>
  >>I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
  >>changes, address validations etc.
  >>
  >>They appear to be understaffed.
  >>
  >>A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just
  >>didn't realize that.
  >>
  >>Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
  >>Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting
  >>company, and have to maintain it yourself.
  >>Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third
  >>party account and pay/manage them.
  >>
  >>This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.
  >>
  >>I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I
  >>shudder to think how that would have migrated.
  >>
  >>Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database
  >>and Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.
  >>
  >>I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data
  >>isn't out of sync with the new system until it comes online.
  >>
  >>That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to 
  >>pay
  >>bills and I'm stuck in the middle.
  >>
  >>Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on
  >>migration.
  >>
  >>Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to
  >>rates on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.
  >>
  >>Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm
  >>also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some
  >>days.
  >>
  >>
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread Adam Moffett

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were doing it wrong or anything.

-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 3:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go 
through every account to make sure it worked out and reload.

Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?

It isn't.

I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure 
things were generally ok.

Then modify/update the ones that have problems.

Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from 
scratch.

What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and get 
running.

So not the case.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API 
to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can 
test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try 
again if you have problems.  Repeat until your script does everything 
you want.  Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process.

I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have 
been in one of the videos.

-Adam

-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from
Platypus to Sonar.

It's not automatic by any means.

Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot
extra.

I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group
changes, address validations etc.

They appear to be understaffed.

A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just
didn't realize that.

Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting
company, and have to maintain it yourself.
Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third
party account and pay/manage them.

This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.

I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I
shudder to think how that would have migrated.

Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database
and Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.

I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data
isn't out of sync with the new system until it comes online.

That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to 
pay

bills and I'm stuck in the middle.

Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on
migration.

Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to
rates on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.

Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm
also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some
days.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread Sterling Jacobson

Sure, in my spare time I'll just create some DB scripts and then go through 
every account to make sure it worked out and reload.

Oh wait, how is that saving me time and money?

It isn't.

I elected to take their import, do some brief overview to make sure things were 
generally ok.
Then modify/update the ones that have problems.

Though that takes time, it's still less effort than starting from scratch.

What I was told was it would be easy to migrate in a day or two and get running.

So not the case.



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API to write 
a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can test your import 
script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try again if you have 
problems.  Repeat until your script does everything you want.  Then when flag 
day comes you have a well tested process.

I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have been in 
one of the videos.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

>So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from 
>Platypus to Sonar.
>
>It's not automatic by any means.
>
>Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot 
>extra.
>
>I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group 
>changes, address validations etc.
>
>They appear to be understaffed.
>
>A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just 
>didn't realize that.
>
>Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
>Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting 
>company, and have to maintain it yourself.
>Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third 
>party account and pay/manage them.
>
>This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.
>
>I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I 
>shudder to think how that would have migrated.
>
>Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database 
>and Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.
>
>I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data 
>isn't out of sync with the new system until it comes online.
>
>That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay 
>bills and I'm stuck in the middle.
>
>Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on 
>migration.
>
>Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to 
>rates on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.
>
>Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm 
>also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some 
>days.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread Layne Sisk

We are happy to help with the data migration as well.  Have helped many of our 
customers with the mundane data entry stuff.  

Layne Sisk
ServerPlus
801.426.8283, ext 102




   

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

Good to know.  When you are done, please create a punch list of things that 
need to be done/fixed/created before advising someone from switching over to 
them.

-Original Message-
From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:51 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from Platypus to 
Sonar.

It's not automatic by any means.

Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.

I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group changes, 
address validations etc.

They appear to be understaffed.

A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just didn't 
realize that.

Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting company, 
and have to maintain it yourself.
Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third party 
account and pay/manage them.

This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.

I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I shudder to 
think how that would have migrated.

Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database and Plat 
could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.

I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data isn't out of 
sync with the new system until it comes online.

That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay bills 
and I'm stuck in the middle.

Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.

Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to rates on 
customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.

Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm also 
crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some days.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread Adam Moffett

If I recall correctly, the Sonar documentation suggested using the API 
to write a script to set everything up.  I think the idea is you can 
test your import script, then just blow away the Sonar instance and try 
again if you have problems.  Repeat until your script does everything 
you want.  Then when flag day comes you have a well tested process.


I know I heard that somewhereif it wasn't in the docs it might have 
been in one of the videos.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 1/10/2018 2:51:58 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from 
Platypus to Sonar.


It's not automatic by any means.

Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot 
extra.


I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group 
changes, address validations etc.


They appear to be understaffed.

A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just 
didn't realize that.


Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting 
company, and have to maintain it yourself.
Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third 
party account and pay/manage them.


This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.

I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I 
shudder to think how that would have migrated.


Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database 
and Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.


I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data 
isn't out of sync with the new system until it comes online.


That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay 
bills and I'm stuck in the middle.


Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on 
migration.


Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to 
rates on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.


Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm 
also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some 
days.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread Mitch Koep


Azotel is so much easier from platy

They did it all for the WISP

Mitch Koep

218-851-8689 cell


On 1/10/2018 1:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Good to know.  When you are done, please create a punch list of things 
that need to be done/fixed/created before advising someone from 
switching over to them.


-Original Message- From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:51 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from 
Platypus to Sonar.


It's not automatic by any means.

Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.

I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group 
changes, address validations etc.


They appear to be understaffed.

A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just 
didn't realize that.


Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting 
company, and have to maintain it yourself.
Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third 
party account and pay/manage them.


This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.

I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I 
shudder to think how that would have migrated.


Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database 
and Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.


I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data 
isn't out of sync with the new system until it comes online.


That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to 
pay bills and I'm stuck in the middle.


Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.

Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to 
rates on customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.


Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm 
also crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some 
days.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread chuck

Good to know.  When you are done, please create a punch list of things that 
need to be done/fixed/created before advising someone from switching over to 
them.

-Original Message- 
From: Sterling Jacobson

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:51 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from Platypus 
to Sonar.

It's not automatic by any means.

Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.

I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group 
changes, address validations etc.

They appear to be understaffed.

A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just didn't 
realize that.

Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting 
company, and have to maintain it yourself.
Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third party 
account and pay/manage them.

This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.

I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I shudder to 
think how that would have migrated.

Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database and 
Plat could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.

I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data isn't out 
of sync with the new system until it comes online.

That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay 
bills and I'm stuck in the middle.

Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.

Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to rates on 
customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.

Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm also 
crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some days.

[AFMUG] Sonar Migration from Platypus

2018-01-10 Thread Sterling Jacobson

So here is a current update on my months long progress moving from Platypus to 
Sonar.

It's not automatic by any means.

Data import is taking a long time and its painful and costs a lot extra.

I'm having to manually correct/add accounts to Sonar with rate group changes, 
address validations etc.

They appear to be understaffed.

A lot of their system isn't theirs too, which is OK I guess, just didn't 
realize that.

Import is a third party process if you don't want to do it yourself.
Actual payment site isn't them, you host it yourself or get a hosting company, 
and have to maintain it yourself.
Paper statements are not directly them, you have to set up a third party 
account and pay/manage them.

This is just a 'simple' import of billing function only.

I didn't even have any network information for any accounts, so I shudder to 
think how that would have migrated.

Also I didn't really see them emphasizing the fact that their database and Plat 
could get seriously out of synch if you are not careful.

I've had to manually suspend everything in Platypus to assure data isn't out of 
sync with the new system until it comes online.

That means it's been days of people calling/contacting me trying to pay bills 
and I'm stuck in the middle.

Don't want to roll back since I've spent so many hours now on migration.

Can't go forward yet because I'm still waiting on massive fixes to rates on 
customers, and web site creation/setup for billing.

Let's just say I'm excited to get onboarding done and running, but I'm also 
crying because it's not there yet and help is slow to come some days.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-27 Thread Harold Bledsoe

Kettle of pickles? Is that for making pickle tea?

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:03 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree,
> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion.
> I thought you were talking about your admin password.
>
> *From:* Brett A Mansfield
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>
> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of
> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get
> into their account because the password requirements are too strict and
> they forgot their password again.
>
> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> Absolutely not.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>
> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too
> strict? 12 character requirement.
>
> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want
> when I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples
> new stuff.
>
> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even
> passed the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to
> cancel.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
>
> --

Harold Bledsoe

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-27 Thread Brett A Mansfield

Thanks. I’ll check it out.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Oct 27, 2017, at 5:11 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> 
> Brett - try KeePass.  It's Android/iphone/mac/Windows
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Brett A Mansfield 
>> <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
>> I don’t like password managers. They make logging into things take forever. 
>> Also, I haven’t found one for Mac that I like.
>> 
>> I was first talking about my password when setting it up. It doesn’t matter 
>> if it is customer facing or my admin password, I should be able to choose my 
>> level of security. An 8 character password is secure enough for me and my 
>> small organization. 
>> 
>> But customer passwords certainly need to be easier and more relaxed. 
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:28 AM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which 
>>> absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about 
>>> their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be 
>>> using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use 
>>> 1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser 
>>> extensions. Then every password is as long as the site will let me with 
>>> random characters.
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield 
>>>> <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing 
>>>> with this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can 
>>>> change the requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks 
>>>> like it will take a very long time to setup because of how many features 
>>>> there are. 
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Brett A Mansfield
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree, 
>>>>> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion. 
>>>>> I thought you were talking about your admin password. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: Brett A Mansfield
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>>>>  
>>>>> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
>>>>> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get 
>>>>> into their account because the password requirements are too strict and 
>>>>> they forgot their password again. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Brett A Mansfield
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Absolutely not.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too 
>>>>>> strict? 12 character requirement. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want 
>>>>>> when I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples 
>>>>>> new stuff. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even 
>>>>>> passed the password changescreen yet and I think I’ve already 
>>>>>> decided to cancel.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Brett A Mansfield
>>>>>>  
>>> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-27 Thread Josh Luthman

Brett - try KeePass.  It's Android/iphone/mac/Windows


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Brett A Mansfield <
li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:

> I don’t like password managers. They make logging into things take
> forever. Also, I haven’t found one for Mac that I like.
>
> I was first talking about my password when setting it up. It doesn’t
> matter if it is customer facing or my admin password, I should be able to
> choose my level of security. An 8 character password is secure enough for
> me and my small organization.
>
> But customer passwords certainly need to be easier and more relaxed.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
> On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:28 AM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which
> absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about
> their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be
> using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use
> 1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser
> extensions. Then every password is as long as the site will let me with
> random characters.
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield <
> li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing
>> with this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can
>> change the requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks
>> like it will take a very long time to setup because of how many features
>> there are.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree,
>> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion.
>> I thought you were talking about your admin password.
>>
>> *From:* Brett A Mansfield
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>
>> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of
>> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get
>> into their account because the password requirements are too strict and
>> they forgot their password again.
>>
>> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely not.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>
>> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too
>> strict? 12 character requirement.
>>
>> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want
>> when I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples
>> new stuff.
>>
>> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even
>> passed the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to
>> cancel.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-26 Thread Mathew Howard

It seems to me that just limiting the number of password attempts is a lot
more effective at stopping brute force than a complex password...

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 9:31 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Kaspersky says that if you had an old XT from the 1980s, an 8 character
> password can be brute forced in 43 years.
>
> With a 2012 Mac Book Pro, 12 days,
>
> With a botnet, 51 seconds,
>
> With a supercomputer 1 second.
>
> I guess it depends on what you envision the bad guy having.
>
> *From:* Brett A Mansfield
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>
> A appreciate your opinion, but I disagree.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
> On Oct 26, 2017, at 6:58 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> 8 characters is never enough.
>
> The size of your organization is irrelevant.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56:46 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>
> I don’t like password managers. They make logging into things take
> forever. Also, I haven’t found one for Mac that I like.
>
> I was first talking about my password when setting it up. It doesn’t
> matter if it is customer facing or my admin password, I should be able to
> choose my level of security. An 8 character password is secure enough for
> me and my small organization.
>
> But customer passwords certainly need to be easier and more relaxed.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
> On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:28 AM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which
> absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about
> their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be
> using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use
> 1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser
> extensions. Then every password is as long as the site will let me with
> random characters.
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield <
> li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing
>> with this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can
>> change the requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks
>> like it will take a very long time to setup because of how many features
>> there are.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree,
>> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion.
>> I thought you were talking about your admin password.
>>
>> *From:* Brett A Mansfield
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>
>> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of
>> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get
>> into their account because the password requirements are too strict and
>> they forgot their password again.
>>
>> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely not.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-26 Thread chuck

Kaspersky says that if you had an old XT from the 1980s, an 8 character 
password can be brute forced in 43 years.

With a 2012 Mac Book Pro, 12 days,

With a botnet, 51 seconds,

With a supercomputer 1 second.

I guess it depends on what you envision the bad guy having.
 

From: Brett A Mansfield 
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

A appreciate your opinion, but I disagree.


Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield

On Oct 26, 2017, at 6:58 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:


  8 characters is never enough.

  The size of your organization is irrelevant.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

  I don’t like password managers. They make logging into things take forever. 
Also, I haven’t found one for Mac that I like. 

  I was first talking about my password when setting it up. It doesn’t matter 
if it is customer facing or my admin password, I should be able to choose my 
level of security. An 8 character password is secure enough for me and my small 
organization. 

  But customer passwords certainly need to be easier and more relaxed. 


  Thank you, 
  Brett A Mansfield

  On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:28 AM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:


I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which 
absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about 
their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be 
using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use 
1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser extensions. 
Then every password is as long as the site will let me with random characters.


On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield 
<li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:

  Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing 
with this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can change 
the requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks like it will 
take a very long time to setup because of how many features there are. 


  Thank you, 
  Brett A Mansfield

  On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:


Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I 
agree, customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion.  
I thought you were talking about your admin password.  

From: Brett A Mansfield 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get into 
their account because the password requirements are too strict and they forgot 
their password again.  

Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?


Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield

On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:


  Absolutely not.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

  Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too 
strict? 12 character requirement. 

  When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I 
want when I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples 
new stuff. 

  I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even 
passed the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to 
cancel.

  Thank you,
  Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-26 Thread Brett A Mansfield

A appreciate your opinion, but I disagree.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Oct 26, 2017, at 6:58 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> 
> 8 characters is never enough.
> 
> The size of your organization is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
> 
> I don’t like password managers. They make logging into things take forever. 
> Also, I haven’t found one for Mac that I like.
> 
> I was first talking about my password when setting it up. It doesn’t matter 
> if it is customer facing or my admin password, I should be able to choose my 
> level of security. An 8 character password is secure enough for me and my 
> small organization. 
> 
> But customer passwords certainly need to be easier and more relaxed. 
> 
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
> 
> On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:28 AM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which 
> absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about 
> their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be 
> using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use 
> 1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser 
> extensions. Then every password is as long as the site will let me with 
> random characters.
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield 
>> <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
>> Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing 
>> with this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can 
>> change the requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks 
>> like it will take a very long time to setup because of how many features 
>> there are. 
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>> 
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree, 
>> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion. 
>> I thought you were talking about your admin password. 
>>  
>> From: Brett A Mansfield
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>  
>> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
>> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get into 
>> their account because the password requirements are too strict and they 
>> forgot their password again. 
>>  
>> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>> 
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely not.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>> 
>> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 
>> 12 character requirement. 
>> 
>> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when 
>> I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new 
>> stuff. 
>> 
>> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed 
>> the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>  
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-26 Thread Mike Hammett

8 characters is never enough. 

The size of your organization is irrelevant. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56:46 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict? 

I don’t like password managers. They make logging into things take forever. 
Also, I haven’t found one for Mac that I like. 


I was first talking about my password when setting it up. It doesn’t matter if 
it is customer facing or my admin password, I should be able to choose my level 
of security. An 8 character password is secure enough for me and my small 
organization. 


But customer passwords certainly need to be easier and more relaxed. 


Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield 

On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:28 AM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 





I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which 
absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about 
their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be 
using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use 
1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser extensions. 
Then every password is as long as the site will let me with random characters. 



On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield < 
li...@silverlakeinternet.com > wrote: 



Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing with 
this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can change the 
requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks like it will take 
a very long time to setup because of how many features there are. 


Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield 



On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 







Oh, for the customers. That is a different kettle of pickles. I agree, customer 
passwords can be less secure in my opinion. 
I thought you were talking about your admin password. 




From: Brett A Mansfield 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict? 

I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get into 
their account because the password requirements are too strict and they forgot 
their password again. 

Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements? 


Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield 

On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





Absolutely not. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Brett A Mansfield" < li...@silverlakeinternet.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict? 

Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 12 
character requirement. 

When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when I’m 
paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new stuff. 

I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed the 
password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel. 

Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-26 Thread Brett A Mansfield

I don’t like password managers. They make logging into things take forever. 
Also, I haven’t found one for Mac that I like.

I was first talking about my password when setting it up. It doesn’t matter if 
it is customer facing or my admin password, I should be able to choose my level 
of security. An 8 character password is secure enough for me and my small 
organization. 

But customer passwords certainly need to be easier and more relaxed. 

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:28 AM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which 
> absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about 
> their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be 
> using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use 
> 1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser 
> extensions. Then every password is as long as the site will let me with 
> random characters.
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield 
>> <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
>> Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing 
>> with this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can 
>> change the requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks 
>> like it will take a very long time to setup because of how many features 
>> there are. 
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree, 
>>> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion. 
>>> I thought you were talking about your admin password. 
>>>  
>>> From: Brett A Mansfield
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>>  
>>> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
>>> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get 
>>> into their account because the password requirements are too strict and 
>>> they forgot their password again. 
>>>  
>>> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> Brett A Mansfield
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Absolutely not.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> 
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>> 
>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too 
>>>> strict? 12 character requirement. 
>>>> 
>>>> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want 
>>>> when I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples 
>>>> new stuff. 
>>>> 
>>>> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even 
>>>> passed the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to 
>>>> cancel.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Brett A Mansfield
>>>>  
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-26 Thread Ryan Ray

I just realized you were talking about customer facing passwords, which
absolutely should be somewhat easy as people seem to be pretty blase' about
their password security, but anyone with a lick of tech knowledge should be
using a password manager with a random long password for every site. I use
1password which has apps for Windows, osx, ios, android and browser
extensions. Then every password is as long as the site will let me with
random characters.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Brett A Mansfield <
li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:

> Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing
> with this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can
> change the requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks
> like it will take a very long time to setup because of how many features
> there are.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree,
> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion.
> I thought you were talking about your admin password.
>
> *From:* Brett A Mansfield
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>
> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of
> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get
> into their account because the password requirements are too strict and
> they forgot their password again.
>
> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> Absolutely not.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>
> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too
> strict? 12 character requirement.
>
> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want
> when I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples
> new stuff.
>
> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even
> passed the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to
> cancel.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

Oh no, admin password should be very strong. But I am just barely playing with 
this for the first time and I didn’t know they made it so you can change the 
requirements. I’m quite impressed with sonar so far. It looks like it will take 
a very long time to setup because of how many features there are. 

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> 
> Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree, 
> customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion. 
> I thought you were talking about your admin password. 
>  
> From: Brett A Mansfield
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>  
> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get into 
> their account because the password requirements are too strict and they 
> forgot their password again. 
>  
> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
> 
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely not.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>> 
>> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 
>> 12 character requirement. 
>> 
>> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when 
>> I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new 
>> stuff. 
>> 
>> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed 
>> the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-25 Thread Chuck McCown

Oh, for the customers.  That is a different kettle of pickles.  I agree, 
customer passwords can be less secure in my opinion.  
I thought you were talking about your admin password.  

From: Brett A Mansfield 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get into 
their account because the password requirements are too strict and they forgot 
their password again.  

Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?

Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield

On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

  Absolutely not.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

  Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 
12 character requirement. 

  When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when 
I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new stuff. 

  I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed 
the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.

  Thank you,
  Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get into 
their account because the password requirements are too strict and they forgot 
their password again. 

Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> 
> Absolutely not.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
> 
> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 
> 12 character requirement. 
> 
> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when 
> I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new 
> stuff. 
> 
> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed 
> the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

So, I found a page that is perfect for this. I can change the password 
requirements. Glad to see they didn’t make me use long passwords. The 
80-somethings will thank you for this. 

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Brett A Mansfield <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I can tell already that it will be a serious challenge. I have a lot of 
> customers that will be calling me just to complain that they cannot get into 
> their account because the password requirements are too strict and they 
> forgot their password again. 
> 
> Should I not be able to choose my own password requirements?
> 
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely not.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?
>> 
>> Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 
>> 12 character requirement. 
>> 
>> When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when 
>> I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new 
>> stuff. 
>> 
>> I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed 
>> the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-25 Thread Chuck McCown


Actually that sounds kinda short for the environment we are in.
And I don't use passwords except for trivial things.
Important things are pass phrases.  They are much easier to remember and 
orders of magnitude more secure.


-Original Message- 
From: Brett A Mansfield

Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 
12 character requirement.


When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when 
I’m paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new 
stuff.


I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed 
the password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.


Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-25 Thread Bill Prince

Problem is, it's in the cloud. So you might be jeopardizing more than 
just your stuff.



bp


On 10/25/2017 5:32 PM, Brett A Mansfield wrote:

Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 12 
character requirement.

When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when I’m 
paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new stuff.

I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed the 
password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

2017-10-25 Thread Mike Hammett

Absolutely not. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:32:07 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict? 

Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 12 
character requirement. 

When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when I’m 
paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new stuff. 

I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed the 
password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel. 

Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield

[AFMUG] Sonar password requirements too strict?

Anyone here that uses sonar find the password requirements to be too strict? 12 
character requirement. 

When it comes to passwords, I should get to choose any password I want when I’m 
paying someone for a service. I have the same issue with Apples new stuff. 

I just spun up a new instance of sonar to try it out. I haven’t even passed the 
password change screen yet and I think I’ve already decided to cancel.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-19 Thread Josh Luthman

Here's a thought about though, and I hate security through obscurity, but
it's worth pointing out.  If there is a flaw in whatever software.  If it's
hosted in one place, it's easy to exploit and get everything.  If it's
hosted in 1000 places, you might get a few customers but there's no way
you'll find all of them.

I agree, there's no sense in pushing someone to cloud vs local or
whatever.  It's funny how computers were all cloud, then all had to be
local, and now everything has to be cloud, and back and forth.  Ultimately
it comes down to many other things than simply where the stuff is installed.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software>
wrote:

> Experian is an interesting point. They were hacked because of a flaw in
> Apache Struts. So, no matter where it's hosted, the flaw exists and can be
> exploited. If you host it locally, you can't patch the software any
> differently, you're reliant on the vendor. So the only difference is, do
> you have better security in place than somebody else? Maybe. My experience
> in dealing with people in general has been that they do not.
>
> I am not really trying to convince anyone of anything, it is not a right
> and wrong answer. You want things locally, there are solutions. But I think
> a lot of these examples aren't really that valid in most cases.
>
> If you can backup your data the same, then it makes no difference from a
> backup perspective.
> If you can't keep using the software without a licensing server being
> available, then it makes no difference, unless your intention is to try to
> reverse engineer the software and remove the licensing requirement.
> If you are not implementing stronger security than the company who would
> otherwise be hosting it for you, then you are worse off than you would be.
>
> If you want it locally because you are going to secure the hell out of it,
> back it up better than the vendor, and you can keep using it if they go out
> of business, then it's a good decision for you.
>
> I am really not pushing people to use cloud hosted stuff if they don't
> want to though. Anyone's desire to host locally is perfectly valid. Sonar
> is just the totally wrong product to look at if that's what you want. If
> you need to hammer in a nail, there's a hammer store down the street, don't
> come buy one of my wrenches and then yell at me because it sucks for
> hitting nails.
>
> On 10/18/2017 9:53 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Is no one going to bring up Experian and the cloud hosting all of your
> data?  That's a concern.
>
> If the "one" cloud hosting server has problems, your entire billing and
> operational system goes down.
>
> Maybe it's simply the piece of mind that everything I have is within arms
> reach.
>
> Like I said before, it all comes down to what people are actually buying.
> No one needs a Ferrari when a Toyota well outlasts them in every objective
> manner and yet people are buying them.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <%28937%29%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <%28937%29%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 10:43 AM, James Howard <ja...@litewire.net> wrote:
>
>> Am I missing something here?  What difference does it make if the
>> software is cloud hosted or locally hosted if the license model is
>> subscription either way?  Mike might have been able to keep running it if
>> he had a local copy but he wouldn’t have owned the license to do it legally.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:13 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
>>
>>
>>
>> That's my point Josh. Wisp mon was cloudy only, so when the acquisition
>> occurred Mike has no choice but to go to sonar. With a local he hosted
>> application he could choose to run the old Wispmon software until he
>> decides he wants to upgrade to something.
>>
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2017, at 09:22, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>> IIRC, version 3 you could have some of their services (not billing)
>> on-prem. Version 4 had an on-prem ability, due to the very reasons I
>> stated...  a VM on your host is no different than a VM on my host from an
>> OS\application perspective.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-19 Thread Adam Moffett

Thread == Dead

-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 10/19/2017 2:37:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I seriously doubt there is one database for all customers.  It makes 
way more sense for so many reasons to do one db per customer.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
Simon, I guess here's my argument as well. On a locally installed 
instance I can firewall the heck out of the server to only my IP 
address is, and other various security measures like that.

If I posted in the cloud on the shared server, I would suspect that 
has to be more wide open to the world because you don't know where all 
people will be accessing the server is from. Is this a. Incorrect 
assumption?

I would also assume that on the cloud system all data is stored in one 
master database which if it were hacked for some reason would allow 
access to everyone's data as opposed to only a subset on the hacked 
system.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-19 Thread Josh Luthman

I seriously doubt there is one database for all customers.  It makes way
more sense for so many reasons to do one db per customer.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Simon, I guess here's my argument as well. On a locally installed instance
> I can firewall the heck out of the server to only my IP address is, and
> other various security measures like that.
>
> If I posted in the cloud on the shared server, I would suspect that has to
> be more wide open to the world because you don't know where all people will
> be accessing the server is from. Is this a. Incorrect assumption?
>
> I would also assume that on the cloud system all data is stored in one
> master database which if it were hacked for some reason would allow access
> to everyone's data as opposed to only a subset on the hacked system.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Rory Conaway

Hahahaha, good one.  Or this one for Sonar,

Of all the WIPS Billing systems, in all the country, in all the world, Matt 
walks into mine (butchered but as close as I could get).

Rory 

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 11:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

There are a million stories in WISP City.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/18/2017 10:50 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> Normally I wouldn't waste my time on such a thing for the amount they 
> owe, but I'm curious to see how many excuses they can make up.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Bill Prince


There are a million stories in WISP City.


bp


On 10/18/2017 10:50 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
Normally I wouldn't waste my time on such a thing for the amount they 
owe, but I'm curious to see how many excuses they can make up.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 10/18/17 10:34, Mathew Howard wrote:
Realistically, if you actually do bill for all of the time that you 
waste on that kind of thing, a large portion of those bills are not 
going to get paid, and it's probably going to end up costing you some 
customers. I'm sure we all have had customers that will never accept 
that something was their fault no matter how clear you make it to 
them... if the whole situation can just be avoided in the first place, 
you're most likely always going to be better off in the long run.



Yeah I've got a genius right now that claims they canceled in June, but 
because they didn't actually cancel they kept getting billed. Every time 
there's a new story on how they apparently canceled.


We emailed you (no ticket number)

Actually we visited your office (you would have been recorded on camera)

Oh, but we don't have your equipment, you must have gotten it (Metro 
Ethernet, no routers no "modems", just a port)


But we talked to someone there (no call records from you)

You should have known we canceled (how exactly?)

We subleased our suite to someone else (so they were supposed to tell us 
about your account?)


Normally I wouldn't waste my time on such a thing for the amount they 
owe, but I'm curious to see how many excuses they can make up.



~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Robert

I would be of the opinion that this kind of response would be better 
sent directly instead of posting to this list.   I know I am becoming 
less tolerant of some of my customers as I interact with them.  But I 
try not to let others know of it...  But I would like to know of your 
architecture as part of the effort to get over my own objections to 
cloud based.   Which is mostly rooted in my own control freakageism...


On 10/18/17 6:06 AM, Simon Westlake wrote:
You are welcome to contact us directly to discuss the architecture if 
you're interested in being a customer. I am pretty sure I've been over 
this with you multiple times already, and I am pretty sure you are not 
interested in being a customer, so it seems like a waste of both our 
times to go over this yet again.


On 10/18/2017 11:04 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left.

Simon is at the helm of SONAR.

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR.


--
Simon Westlake
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Mathew Howard

Realistically, if you actually do bill for all of the time that you waste
on that kind of thing, a large portion of those bills are not going to get
paid, and it's probably going to end up costing you some customers. I'm
sure we all have had customers that will never accept that something was
their fault no matter how clear you make it to them... if the whole
situation can just be avoided in the first place, you're most likely always
going to be better off in the long run.

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Depends on how reasonable and grown up they are, and whether they have the
> means to pay that bill, and whether in their perspective it's actually not
> your fault.
>
> Sending the bill at least sends the message that you fully believe it's
> not your fault, and maybe you'll get paid, but you'll never get that time
> back.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 10/18/2017 12:25:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
>
> I've done that. My "wireless bridge" was broken. They said they didn't
> change anything. Three full days later and they get a bill for thousands of
> dollars for the work I did involving two NanoStations because the problem
> was on their side, not mine. Pay me.  :-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:27:25 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
>
> I don't see the problem. Customer complains to you that their billing is
> not running properly, you spend tons of time determining the issue is on
> their end, and then nail it down to they are closing their laptop which is
> running the billing software. How was that not a billable instance?
>
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:23, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>
> Good luck w/ that.
>
> On 10/18/2017 9:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> Simon - and you billed them accordingly for all of your time right?
>
>  
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:04, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> 
> <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>
> a
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Robert

I was interested in how the DB(s) are across the user base as part of my 
evaluation of possible future choice.   Is this proprietary?  It is very 
important to my choices


On 10/18/17 6:20 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I have heard the same from other PC users.
*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:19 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save 
powercode.  We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained 
about not being able to access a customer forum of a competing product).

I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
- Reply message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left.

Simon is at the helm of SONAR.

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Robert

Basically the closer-to-present-time version of the Floppy hung on the 
filing cabinet with the magnet..


On 10/18/17 4:29 AM, Simon Westlake wrote:
It is, good luck collecting thousands of dollars in developer time when 
they're paying $100 a month though. It just doesn't happen. All of this 
speculation is really easy until you actually have to do it.


On 10/18/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
I don't see the problem. Customer complains to you that their billing 
is not running properly, you spend tons of time determining the issue 
is on their end, and then nail it down to they are closing their 
laptop which is running the billing software. How was that not a 
billable instance?


On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:23, Simon Westlake > wrote:



Good luck w/ that.

On 10/18/2017 9:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Simon - and you billed them accordingly for all of your time right?

 


On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:04, Simon Westlake  wrote:

a


--
Simon Westlake
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software


--
Simon Westlake
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Mike Hammett

If you go out in a blaze of glory, I restore to yesterday's snapshot or the day 
before's snapshot and go on until I can evaluate a new platform. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:42:29 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 

What's the point of a locally installed system that can survive the creator 
going out of business if I can remotely kill switch it? 


On 10/18/2017 9:38 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 



Sir, you have a $6000 bill, you have 60 days to pay it or your billing system 
will cease to function. 

On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:29, Simon Westlake < simon@sonar.software > wrote: 




It is, good luck collecting thousands of dollars in developer time when they're 
paying $100 a month though. It just doesn't happen. All of this speculation is 
really easy until you actually have to do it. 


On 10/18/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 



I don't see the problem. Customer complains to you that their billing is not 
running properly, you spend tons of time determining the issue is on their end, 
and then nail it down to they are closing their laptop which is running the 
billing software. How was that not a billable instance? 

On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:23, Simon Westlake < simon@sonar.software > wrote: 




Good luck w/ that. 


On 10/18/2017 9:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 


Simon - and you billed them accordingly for all of your time right?

  

On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:04, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> wrote:

a 




-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software 




-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software 




-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Mike Hammett

If the vendor ceases to function, the validity of the license is the least of 
the concerns. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net> 
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:43:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 



Am I missing something here? What difference does it make if the software is 
cloud hosted or locally hosted if the license model is subscription either way? 
Mike might have been able to keep running it if he had a local copy but he 
wouldn’t have owned the license to do it legally. 





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:13 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 


That's my point Josh. Wisp mon was cloudy only, so when the acquisition 
occurred Mike has no choice but to go to sonar. With a local he hosted 
application he could choose to run the old Wispmon software until he decides he 
wants to upgrade to something. 


On Oct 18, 2017, at 09:22, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




IIRC, version 3 you could have some of their services (not billing) on-prem. 
Version 4 had an on-prem ability, due to the very reasons I stated... a VM on 
your host is no different than a VM on my host from an OS\application 
perspective. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png
Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png
The Brothers WISP 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png






From: "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 8:20:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 

Wispmon was cloud only wasn't it? 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 



On Oct 18, 2017 9:16 AM, "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



He always has a choice. 



On Oct 18, 2017 7:14 AM, "Matt Hoppes" < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 




He didn't have a choice. His cloud-based billing provider went out of business 
and sold to sonar. So he doesn't even really have the option of running old 
software, he's being forced to upgrade. 


On Oct 18, 2017, at 07:55, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 




Please don't become a Sonar customer just to demonize them because you don't 
like their service model. 



Seriously. That'd be a super shitty thing to do. 



On Oct 18, 2017 6:52 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I will be using it shortly as Sonar bought WISPMon. 

All of the major billing\OSS platforms with modern features are also 
cloud-based, so there's not really anywhere else to go. 

That's fine for you that it works that way, but many WISPs are increasing their 
use of on-premises virtualization. What about your monitoring, DNS, RADIUS, 
syslog, Unimus, mail, etc., etc. servers? 



Yes, my reasons do outweigh arbitrary reasons to keep it in a cloud 
environment. 

Actually, I've been fairly quiet on this particular issue and will be 
increasing my advocacy efforts in this regard to all billing\OSS platforms. As 
I said, it's the SFP port of the billing\OSS world. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png
Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png
The Brothers WISP 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:08:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 

I'm in agreement with Simon that it's much faster and reliable to host in the 
cloud than a server on site. It would cost me many more hours, hand holding, 
and worry if I had to host this server in my network. If I went on vacation and 
something happened, I'd be stressed. 



With sonar living in the cloud, there's less to worry about as it's hosted in a 
much more reliable datacenter than I could afford to build. It's also managed 
by sonar's team so if there's an issue, they take care of it. Stress free for 
me. 



I see why you might want to host it in house but those reasons do NOT outweigh 
all the benefits of letting sonar host it in the cloud for

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Adam Moffett

Depends on how reasonable and grown up they are, and whether they have 
the means to pay that bill, and whether in their perspective it's 
actually not your fault.


Sending the bill at least sends the message that you fully believe it's 
not your fault, and maybe you'll get paid, but you'll never get that 
time back.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/18/2017 12:25:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I've done that. My "wireless bridge" was broken. They said they didn't 
change anything. Three full days later and they get a bill for 
thousands of dollars for the work I did involving two NanoStations 
because the problem was on their side, not mine. Pay me.  :-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:27:25 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I don't see the problem. Customer complains to you that their billing 
is not running properly, you spend tons of time determining the issue 
is on their end, and then nail it down to they are closing their laptop 
which is running the billing software. How was that not a billable 
instance?


On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:23, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> wrote:


Good luck w/ that.

On 10/18/2017 9:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Simon - and you billed them accordingly for all of your time right?

 



On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:04, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> 
<mailto:simon@sonar.software> wrote:

a



--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Exactly. Same here. I see no issue with this. 

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:25, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> 
> I've done that. My "wireless bridge" was broken. They said they didn't change 
> anything. Three full days later and they get a bill for thousands of dollars 
> for the work I did involving two NanoStations because the problem was on 
> their side, not mine. Pay me.  :-)
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:27:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
> 
> I don't see the problem. Customer complains to you that their billing is not 
> running properly, you spend tons of time determining the issue is on their 
> end, and then nail it down to they are closing their laptop which is running 
> the billing software. How was that not a billable instance?
> 
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:23, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
> 
> Good luck w/ that.
> 
> On 10/18/2017 9:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Simon - and you billed them accordingly for all of your time right?
> 
>  
> 
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:04, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
> 
> a
> 
> -- 
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSS
> https://sonar.software
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

...we got on it in 2011 and Simon onboarded us 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG]Sonar
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:19 AM

Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save powercode.  
We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about not being able to 
access a customer forum of a competing product).  

I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left. 

Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Mike Hammett

I've done that. My "wireless bridge" was broken. They said they didn't change 
anything. Three full days later and they get a bill for thousands of dollars 
for the work I did involving two NanoStations because the problem was on their 
side, not mine. Pay me. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:27:25 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 



I don't see the problem. Customer complains to you that their billing is not 
running properly, you spend tons of time determining the issue is on their end, 
and then nail it down to they are closing their laptop which is running the 
billing software. How was that not a billable instance? 

On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:23, Simon Westlake < simon@sonar.software > wrote: 




Good luck w/ that. 


On 10/18/2017 9:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 


Simon - and you billed them accordingly for all of your time right?

  

On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:04, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> wrote:

a 




-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Is this the story of the Pea Sea and the DOS Fish?

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:23, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> That may be why we have these chats...
> 
> Or maybe what keeps me from falling asleep while waiting on my mom at a 
> doctors appointment.
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:21 AM
> 
> OK this is news to me, although it may be accurate, I'm not entirely up on 
> the history of power code. If that is the case that makes me feel much better 
> about sonar.
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:20, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have heard the same from other PC users. 
>>  
>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:19 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
>>  
>>  
>> Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save powercode. 
>>  We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about not being 
>> able to access a customer forum of a competing product). 
>>  
>> I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode
>>  
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>  
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>> To: <af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
>> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM
>> 
>> Simon,
>> Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR 
>> system?
>> 
>> Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
>> code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. 
>> These issues have been fixed since Simon left. 
>> 
>> Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 
>> 
>> We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
>> understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to 
>> SONAR. =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Someone other than me ought to tell the story of PC 

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

OK this is news to me, although it may be accurate, I'm not entirely up on the 
history of power code. If that is the case that makes me feel much better about 
sonar.

On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:20, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I have heard the same from other PC users.  

  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:19 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

  Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save powercode.  
We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about not being able to 
access a customer forum of a competing product).  

  I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode 

  Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

  - Reply message -
  From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
  To: <af@afmug.com>
  Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
  Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left. 

Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

That may be why we have these chats...

Or maybe what keeps me from falling asleep while waiting on my mom at a doctors 
appointment.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:21 AM

OK this is news to me, although it may be accurate, I'm not entirely up on the 
history of power code. If that is the case that makes me feel much better about 
sonar.

On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:20, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I have heard the same from other PC users.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:19 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save 
powercode.  We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about 
not being able to access a customer forum of a competing product).  

I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: 
<af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 
AM

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left. 

Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Except that I've become an evangelist when I make the decision, not after. I am 
not an evangelist for Radwin, even though I have use that.

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:19, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save powercode.  
> We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about not being able 
> to access a customer forum of a competing product).  
> 
> I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM
> 
> Simon,
> Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR 
> system?
> 
> Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
> code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
> issues have been fixed since Simon left. 
> 
> Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 
> 
> We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
> understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. 
> =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

OK this is news to me, although it may be accurate, I'm not entirely up on the 
history of power code. If that is the case that makes me feel much better about 
sonar.

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:20, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> 
> I have heard the same from other PC users. 
>  
> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:19 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
>  
>  
> Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save powercode.  
> We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about not being able 
> to access a customer forum of a competing product). 
>  
> I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode
>  
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>  
> - Reply message -
> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM
> 
> Simon,
> Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR 
> system?
> 
> Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
> code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
> issues have been fixed since Simon left. 
> 
> Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 
> 
> We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
> understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. 
> =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I have heard the same from other PC users.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save powercode.  
We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about not being able to 
access a customer forum of a competing product).  

I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left. 

Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Adam Moffett


I heart this analogy.

 If you need to hammer in a nail, there's a hammer store down the 
street, don't come buy one of my wrenches and then yell at me because 
it sucks for hitting nails.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

Based on what I witnessed - it was Simon who led the team to save powercode.  
We got on it (Simon reached out to us when I complained about not being able to 
access a customer forum of a competing product).  

I sure don't remember Simon or his team causing any problems in Powercode 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 11:04 AM

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left. 

Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. =

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Everyone must become an evangelist for whatever they choose, otherwise they 
admit they made a bad choice.  Confirmation bias.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I'm sure Lane Siske thought the same thing before I signed up with him last 
month. 

I'm sure Patrick Leary thought the same thing before I became a BaiCells 
evangelist user who now installs it on every tower. 

Never under estimate who may buy from you in the future. 

On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:06, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software> wrote:

  You are welcome to contact us directly to discuss the architecture if you're 
interested in being a customer. I am pretty sure I've been over this with you 
multiple times already, and I am pretty sure you are not interested in being a 
customer, so it seems like a waste of both our times to go over this yet again.

  On 10/18/2017 11:04 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left. 

Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR. 

-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I'm sure Lane Siske thought the same thing before I signed up with him last 
month. 

I'm sure Patrick Leary thought the same thing before I became a BaiCells 
evangelist user who now installs it on every tower. 

Never under estimate who may buy from you in the future. 

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:06, Simon Westlake  wrote:
> 
> You are welcome to contact us directly to discuss the architecture if you're 
> interested in being a customer. I am pretty sure I've been over this with you 
> multiple times already, and I am pretty sure you are not interested in being 
> a customer, so it seems like a waste of both our times to go over this yet 
> again.
> 
>> On 10/18/2017 11:04 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Simon,
>> Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR 
>> system?
>> 
>> Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
>> code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. 
>> These issues have been fixed since Simon left. 
>> 
>> Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 
>> 
>> We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
>> understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to 
>> SONAR. 
> 
> -- 
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSS
> https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar - Cloud

Their name should be “Rain” with that slogan.  

Then there could be follow on companies called Hail, Snow, Hurricane. then 
Hurricane Electric!

From: Kevin Neal 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar - Cloud

We have a local data center who trademarked the phrase "Where clouds are 
physically located".

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 9:25 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net> 
wrote:

  Yah - you know me 

  Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

  - Reply message -
  From: "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software>
  To: <af@afmug.com>
  Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar - Cloud
  Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 9:52 AM

  I'm down with OPC

  On 10/18/2017 9:52 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Cloud
Cloud
Cloud = Santa Claus

There ain’t no f**king cloud.

Every time you see “cloud” translate immediately to “somebody else’s 
computer”  

-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

-- 

Kevin Neal
IT Director
Safelink Internet

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar - Cloud

2017-10-18 Thread Kevin Neal

We have a local data center who trademarked the phrase "Where clouds are
physically located".

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 9:25 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net
> wrote:

>
> Yah - you know me
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar - Cloud
> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 9:52 AM
>
> I'm down with OPC
>
> On 10/18/2017 9:52 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Cloud
> Cloud
> Cloud = Santa Claus
>
> There ain’t no f**king cloud.
>
> Every time you see “cloud” translate immediately to “somebody else’s
> computer”
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSS 
> <https://sonar.software>https://sonar.software
>
>


-- 

*Kevin Neal*IT Director
Safelink Internet

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Simon Westlake

You are welcome to contact us directly to discuss the architecture if 
you're interested in being a customer. I am pretty sure I've been over 
this with you multiple times already, and I am pretty sure you are not 
interested in being a customer, so it seems like a waste of both our 
times to go over this yet again.


On 10/18/2017 11:04 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left.

Simon is at the helm of SONAR.

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR.


--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

spaas

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

So surge protection as a service? 

On Oct 18, 2017, at 11:26, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I do have virtual surge suppressors.  For only $1/month per circuit you can 
send all your surges to a special heavy duty IP address that terminates into an 
infinite surge black hole.  

  From: Simon Westlake 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:20 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

  Are your surge suppressors cloud hosted?

  On 10/18/2017 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I would assume there is not a master database.  I would assume a separate 
db per customer.  And a separate VM per customer. 

Now, we will learn the answer... (right after this word from our sponsor). 

   Folks, are you plagued with ugly painful surges on your ethernets? 
   Dr. Chuck's ethernets surge suppressors are the only known treatment for 
this ugly disease. 
   Don't let the neighbor's kids tease your kids about their dad's 
ethernets surges. 
   Get Dr. Chuck's ethernets surge suppressors today. 
   Sold at all fine ethernets retailers. 

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:12 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 

Simon, I guess here's my argument as well. On a locally installed instance 
I can firewall the heck out of the server to only my IP address is, and other 
various security measures like that. 

If I posted in the cloud on the shared server, I would suspect that has to 
be more wide open to the world because you don't know where all people will be 
accessing the server is from. Is this a. Incorrect assumption? 

I would also assume that on the cloud system all data is stored in one 
master database which if it were hacked for some reason would allow access to 
everyone's data as opposed to only a subset on the hacked system. 

-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

That’s extra.  

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

If you can do offsite grounding also, I’ll sign up.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

So surge protection as a service? 

On Oct 18, 2017, at 11:26, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I do have virtual surge suppressors.  For only $1/month per circuit you can 
send all your surges to a special heavy duty IP address that terminates into an 
infinite surge black hole.  

  From: Simon Westlake 

  Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:20 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

  Are your surge suppressors cloud hosted?

  On 10/18/2017 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I would assume there is not a master database.  I would assume a separate 
db per customer.  And a separate VM per customer. 

Now, we will learn the answer... (right after this word from our sponsor). 

   Folks, are you plagued with ugly painful surges on your ethernets? 
   Dr. Chuck's ethernets surge suppressors are the only known treatment for 
this ugly disease. 
   Don't let the neighbor's kids tease your kids about their dad's 
ethernets surges. 
   Get Dr. Chuck's ethernets surge suppressors today. 
   Sold at all fine ethernets retailers. 

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:12 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar 

Simon, I guess here's my argument as well. On a locally installed instance 
I can firewall the heck out of the server to only my IP address is, and other 
various security measures like that. 

If I posted in the cloud on the shared server, I would suspect that has to 
be more wide open to the world because you don't know where all people will be 
accessing the server is from. Is this a. Incorrect assumption? 

I would also assume that on the cloud system all data is stored in one 
master database which if it were hacked for some reason would allow access to 
everyone's data as opposed to only a subset on the hacked system. 

-- Simon WestlakeEmail: simon@sonar.softwarePhone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 
900-1180 CA---Sonar Software IncThe future of ISP 
billing and OSShttps://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Simon,
Can you describe how customer data is isolated on the cloud hosted SONAR system?

Josh - I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the SONAR cloud 
code. Powercode had significant software issues when it first came out. These 
issues have been fixed since Simon left. 

Simon is at the helm of SONAR. 

We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. I'm just looking to 
understand how the mistakes made at Powercode have not carried over to SONAR.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

2017-10-18 Thread Rory Conaway

If you can do offsite grounding also, I’ll sign up.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

So surge protection as a service? 

On Oct 18, 2017, at 11:26, Chuck McCown 
<ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I do have virtual surge suppressors.  For only $1/month per circuit you can 
send all your surges to a special heavy duty IP address that terminates into an 
infinite surge black hole.

From: Simon Westlake
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:20 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Are your surge suppressors cloud hosted?
On 10/18/2017 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I would assume there is not a master database.  I would assume a separate db 
per customer.  And a separate VM per customer.

Now, we will learn the answer... (right after this word from our sponsor).

   Folks, are you plagued with ugly painful surges on your ethernets?
   Dr. Chuck's ethernets surge suppressors are the only known treatment for 
this ugly disease.
   Don't let the neighbor's kids tease your kids about their dad's ethernets 
surges.
   Get Dr. Chuck's ethernets surge suppressors today.
   Sold at all fine ethernets retailers.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Simon, I guess here's my argument as well. On a locally installed instance I 
can firewall the heck out of the server to only my IP address is, and other 
various security measures like that.

If I posted in the cloud on the shared server, I would suspect that has to be 
more wide open to the world because you don't know where all people will be 
accessing the server is from. Is this a. Incorrect assumption?

I would also assume that on the cloud system all data is stored in one master 
database which if it were hacked for some reason would allow access to 
everyone's data as opposed to only a subset on the hacked system.

--

Simon Westlake

Email: simon@sonar.software<mailto:simon@sonar.software>

Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA

---

Sonar Software Inc

The future of ISP billing and OSS

https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar