[FairfieldLife] Light is the essence of the Soul
saaMkhya-suutra I 145: Since light does not pertain to the unintelligent, light, [which must pertain to something or other, is the essence of the Soul, which, self- manifesting, manifests whatever else is manifest]. jaDaprakaashaayogaatprakaashaH (jaDa-prakaasha+ayogaat prakaashaH) Perhaps: From (=because of?) unintelligent(jaDa)- light(prakaasha)- disjunction (ayogaat), light (prakaashaH).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic architecture - the power of life-giving principles
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What a big pile of ridiculous shit! Higher states of consciousness would be a help for you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any more exactitude to the answer, especially down to a yes/no is too much ensconced in a materialistic worldview. The rarity of siddhis makes them more mysterious, it's the loving intimacy that matters most, devotion. When it comes to demonstrating sidhis, yes/no is the ONLY criteria that matter. I would agree. It's *exactly* the same scenario as Off bragging about how Shotokan karate guys are the best and could kick anyone else's ass. Empty, self-important rhetoric until they actually DO kick some ass. As Cuba Gooding might say, Show me the money! Show us the levitation, don't talk about it and theorize about it. And it matters even more if a professional magician is in the room cuz they can smell the bullshit that Buddha only dreamed of. Again, I'd be the first to agree. It would be good to hear a professional magician try to explain away some of the levitation I saw the Rama guy do, because it often took place on the fly, in circumstances where apparatus didn't seem a possibility. I mean, we've hiked out into the desert for three hours, and the guy is wearing nothing more than shorts and a T-shirt and hiking boots, carrying nothing, and he just stops in the middle of an open space with nothing around him that could even be *used* as apparatus (the nearest trees or cliffs from which to string wires were half a mile away). And yet the dude just steps up off the sand and walks around for a few minutes, a foot above the ground. Or in a Denny's at 3 a.m., deserted except for him and a few of his students and one waitress. Rama didn't even *choose* the Denny's in question; I did, because I was driving us back from somewhere and needed some coffee. So the waitress gives us all our coffee and then asks if we need anything more, and when we say no she ducks out the front door and goes around to the side of the building, out of sight, to smoke a cigarette. Rama grins at us and just lifts up off the genuine naugahyde of the Denny's booth and hangs there in mid-air for a few seconds, sipping his coffee. Everybody cracks up and laughs, which was probably the point of the stunt. Curtis, I'm *more* than open to suggestions from you or anyone else as to how these things could have been staged by a magician. I don't see that as being a relevant option when trying to explain away this particular guy's levitations. The idea of being somehow hypnotized into seeing these things might be more relevant, except that over the years, almost *none* of the instances of siddhis I and other people saw were suggested or announced ahead of time. It was as if the guy was purposefully *avoiding* anything that could later be regarded as suggestion. He'd just DO them, sometimes in the middle of a sentence, to catch everyone by surprise. So have at it, dude. I wish you'd been there in the desert at the time, and could bring your know- ledge of stage magic to the table. I have *tried* over the years -- Lord knows I've tried -- to come up with some way to rationalize these experiences away and write them off to some trick, and damnit I can't. They -- WHATEVER they were -- happened, and I'm stuck with having seen them. Believe me, that is FAR scarier and harder to live with than being able to explain them away as some kind of trick or hallucination.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Extrapolating from this, it seems to me that if MMY really wanted people to levitate, and was enlightened himself, what he'd do is sit them down in a room with him and demonstrate levitation. Their bodies would learn the siddhi far more quickly and far more effectively than they would practicing some made-up technique in English. This is what Muktananda did with his students, no ? Problem is that they are dependent of the shakti of the teacher to perform the siddhi, in the same way as the students of Rama were. That is if Rama students had independent experiences ofcourse. And that is why Muktananda praised Maharishi for giving knowledge for the whole world independent of him personally because he saw that Maharishis role was more universal and has effect beyond a small group of students. When Maharishi leaves we can go on and on with the practise independent of his shakti.
[FairfieldLife] Software professionals take up cleaning of temples
After six days of working on the keyboard in air-conditioned glass-and-chrome buildings, a handful of software professionals rolled up their sleeves on Sundays to clean temples located near the city. These IT firms employees have joined heritage experts, conservationists and archaeologists of the Rural Education and Conservation of Heritage Foundation to volunteer in identifying old temples, removing weeds and overgrown vegetation and protecting the structures. U.S. Madan, a 28-year-old employee of software firm CollabNet, said he was drawn to the historical information that could be gathered from the old temples. The stories associated with the temples and the style of architecture also attract many youngsters. J. Chandrasekhar, a plastics technology engineer, has been trying to rope in volunteers from IT and BPO firms, as the temple-cleaning tours would open doors to a whole new experience. The volunteers enjoy the physical work involved in de-weeding and cleaning, he said. At present, the group has taken up cleaning of the Kundrathur Valeeswarar Temple and its restoration. They collect funds from friends and well-wishers for equipment and material. Rajan Ganesh, an employee of Cognizant Technologies in Pune, had started an online group for temple cleaners when he was in Chennai. He continues to support the activities and spread the message of temple preservation. The group also records its activities on templesrevival.blogspot.com The Department of Archaeology, Tamil Nadu, organised a heritage tour for students of Bharathi Womens College at the Thiagaraja Swamy Temple in Tiruvottiyur on Tuesday to mark the conclusion of the World Heritage Week celebrations. The 900-year-old temple has stone inscriptions that carry interesting information. One of them records in precise detail the extent of land donated to the temple. In India, there are one lakh stone inscriptions of which 65,000 are in Tamil. They provide tangible evidence about kings and the period when the temples were built, said T. Sathyamurthy, former Superintending Archaeologist, Archaeological Survey of India, Chennai Circle. The college students, from the Department of History, got a chance to use the estampage technique to read the stone inscriptions. First, a sheet of damp, white paper is spread on the stone and smoothened with brushes. A black mixture like shoe polish is applied on the paper to show up the impression of the letters carved on stone. Epigraphist R. Sivanandam helped the students read the ancient script. S. Vasanthi, archaeologist, urged the students to tell their friends and relatives to refrain from defacing stone inscriptions in temples. http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/28/stories/2007112859880300.htm - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Extrapolating from this, it seems to me that if MMY really wanted people to levitate, and was enlightened himself, what he'd do is sit them down in a room with him and demonstrate levitation. Their bodies would learn the siddhi far more quickly and far more effectively than they would practicing some made-up technique in English. This is what Muktananda did with his students, no ? I don't know much about him, so I can't commment. Problem is that they are dependent of the shakti of the teacher to perform the siddhi, in the same way as the students of Rama were. That is if Rama students had independent experiences ofcourse. Just to clarify, Rama never claimed that he was trying to *teach* the siddhis to his students; he just demo'd them. Occasionally, he would demo some- thing like being able to see the future or read other people's minds and many of us in the audience would pick up on something and be able to do it ourselves later, but it wasn't really an I'm going to teach you how to do this scenario. As for the boost that one gets from the shakti or energy of the teacher not being permanent, I agree with you completely. It's sometimes *useful*, if that energy can lift you to the point where you can have, for example, far deeper experiences of meditation and samadhi than you normally exper- ience on your own, and having experienced them clearly helps you get back to those same exper- iences later, *on your own*. But otherwise, shakti junkies are just like any other kind of junkie in my opinion. I don't see the hit that one gets from a teacher as being terribly useful in the long run *unless* it leads to being able to repeat the deeper experience of things *on one's own*. If you can't do it *on your own* later, then what use was the glimpse of something you got while in the teacher's presence, eh? At best it's just a travelogue, a glimpse into your own future to give you hope. And that is why Muktananda praised Maharishi for giving knowledge for the whole world independent of him personally because he saw that Maharishis role was more universal and has effect beyond a small group of students. When Maharishi leaves we can go on and on with the practise independent of his shakti. True. You can go on with practices THAT DON'T WORK for as long as you want. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] The best TM research what am (The real test of the Anti-Science freaks on FFL)
Experience+Knowledge. Then all the effects come. Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off, There HAS been a study that you should take as authoritative, methinks, cuz, well, it's the kind of study that everyone on the planet learns how to conduct from BIRTH onwards. Millions of folks started TM; millions quit. Science was done by all of these folks: they followed the rules of the experiment, took the mantra effortlessly, and then quit after a few days, months, years -- depending -- but they all quit and never looked back. Sure, some were bad scientists and didn't do the experiment correctly, but most did. Most made it past their ten-day checking, but after that, by my ten-year-teaching-in-the-field reasoning, most didn't make up to having a whole year under their belt, before they, unlike me, realized that they were not being paid back for their investment of 40 minutes per day in the chair. There's abandoned mines in The Old West everywhere -- each abandoned mine was finally quit by a non-scientific person who wasn't much more educated than a cowboy of the era, yet in almost every instance the mine was indeed played out. Doesn't take much to be correct about such things even if a scientist has not affirmed it. The heft of millions tried it and quit is considerable -- even if only as a longitudinal study, say, The Impact of Belief Systems on Mass Audiences. As pumped up as all of us teachers were at the time, our inspirational modeling had only so much oomph with which to imbue the newbies as they left the centers. And we had some good schtick to fling. Yes, fling is a good word, eh? Maharishi always ALWAYS ALWAYS smugly and arrogantly challenged disbelief by saying, Try it. If the results are there you will continue, if not, then you will quit. He was always talking about how businessmen would be naturally expected to see meditation's value, because they were sure to be so bottom-line and practical, AND, they would see TM's impact on their profits. Nope. So they quit. Maharishi TRUSTED their intuitions and logic, and they quit. Ain't no bigbiz programs nowadays, right? Witherspoon took off his tie and went back to heaping dirt up in the desert, right? The masses are asses, but they're not out there eating rocks -- even small children are scientific enough to stop tasting things-on-the-ground-found-when-mom-isn't-there by about the age of four. They did the experiments, and their behaviors changed. TM's marketing campaigns also reflect that the masses had invalidated the meditation -- we see that the history of the TMO's marketing became more and more focused on fleecing the well heeled. And now today, where is TM being taught? Answer: nowhere -- for the most part. Ask all the folks living around any of the abandoned mines why they aren't going into the mines to look for nuggets. Answer: others that we trust have done that, and it is 99% certain that there's no gold in them thar hills. No one is starting TM cuz everyone's heard about the results from their trusted friends -- just like no one does Amway anymore after they've been suckered into having a living room presentation instead of being forthrightly presented with a business proposition instead of, you know, dare to be rich. Oh, don't bother arguing with me about this -- I know you'll flame or go into some sort of TB illogic about the masses not being scientific. I've had my little say, and that's enough. Those here who resonate will perhaps be just a titch more likely to read one of my posts and a titch less likely to read your next post. No one posting here was a more dedicated teacher than I was -- as far as I can tell. I did the experiment, the lifestyle, the sacrificing, and I paid tens of thousands of dollars (no new cars, no savings, cult raised children wearing second-hand school uniforms, working off tuition) to conduct that experiment. Conclusion: TM may do something, might be good for one, could be the real deal and might even be in line with Vedic traditions, could be training the brain to do marvelous but extremely subtle things, but one thing is certain -- the price is far too high for the little profits that can be verified or pretended to exist. For TBs to ignore these results of the people is to besmirch the general ability of humanity to be logical, practical and faithful to what-works. Think of all the things that the masses HAVE NOT abandoned -- things that worked. Necessity may be the mother of invention, but it works is the go-juice of culture. TM never delivered the expected mojo. It is a pig in a poke, and I still believe that some pokes have pigs in them, but I have yet to hear my first oink from the TMO's poke. But I did get porked. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, my pet peeve in life are
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When MMY claimed that if a person were to levitate it would indicate enlightenment, he was dangling a carrot to inspire his followers to achieve levitation - and subsequent recogniton within TMO circles as an Enlightened person. The whole proposition is directly contrary to MMY's Bhagavad Gita commentary that no outward signs can identify a person's level of consciousness. I prefer the Bhagavad Gita commentary on this matter - therefore, I don't agree that levitation is an indication of enlightenment. I don't doubt that bonafide levitation is possible; yet I have little regard for its significance. Evan full- scale flight through the skies. You realized how cold the air is this time of year ? :D FWIW: http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_1/1-1-08.html [Brahman is] aakaashas tallingaat (tat; lingaat) The word Akasa [aakaasha] must be understood as Brahman
[FairfieldLife] Re: better than siddhis: ice skating cowboys!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for the holidays: ice skating cowboys, ho ho ho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkp9OXAVD88 Wonderful, but SO gay. I'm betting that this video will be playing on the big-screen TVs of half the gay bars in Sitges by the end of the week. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Extrapolating from this, it seems to me that if MMY really wanted people to levitate, and was enlightened himself, what he'd do is sit them down in a room with him and demonstrate levitation. Their bodies would learn the siddhi far more quickly and far more effectively than they would practicing some made-up technique in English. This, of course, presupposes that Maharishi could actually levitate, of course. (..or that anyone else could) Sure, I am completely with you regarding the field effect, and learning by proximity, being in the aura of someone who just *shows* you how things work in the daily life. Thats actually my path here! But, just to put in another though or perspective: I think or rather propose that the Siddhis themselves weren't all that important in themselves to MMY. They were as some here said, like a carrot that makes you going. (Too bad if the carrot is already swallowed) Sometime ago here was a discussion about Patanjali Yoga Sutras and the process of Samayama. I threw in that one of the main Advaitic Commentators, Madhusudana Saraswati said that Samyama is the most effective technique for realization. Vaj or one of his friends expressed, that Samyama is not restricted to Siddhis, and that this was refereing to a higher technique to attain Samadhi. So I looked up in the commentary of Vyasa, and found that he said that beginners should practise not the higher Forms of Samyama, but should start with the lower forms - the Siddhis. (The Siddhis were also called lower forms of attainmenment) Madhusudana goes on to say, soon after that, that supreme devotion to Ishvara would beat it all, and unnessecitate the former practise. That opened my eyes! For MMY devotion was not an option he could have offered in a technique which was constructed undenominational. His option was therefore to offer Samyama as a technique on the lower forms, the Siddhis, and not stressing on the phenomena of it (saying they are only a side-effect), still using it as a sort of carrot. I say this because I know, that MMY comes from a fairly conservative tradition, and would be aware of the main figures like Madhusudana, so I am sure he is aware of his commentary on the gita (its written there) I even think he borrowed from him heavily in his own commentary. Samayama on the lower forms would thus prepare the nervous system. purify it and make it subtle, which is its only purpose. Enlightenment itself cannot be given. It comes by itself by the recognition of the Self by Itself, so only purification is most important. So, to sum it up, actual attainment of Siddhis was not the goal, the way, Samayama is the goal.
[FairfieldLife] [Norwegian] Fearless mouse
http://www.dagbladet.no/tv/index.html?clipid=24175
[FairfieldLife] better than siddhis: ice skating cowboys!
for the holidays: ice skating cowboys, ho ho ho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkp9OXAVD88
Re: [FairfieldLife] Pope v Gore
Does the Pope also speak with an artificial lithp? **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
[FairfieldLife] Nineeleven: Most sad, See-Eye-Ey??
Ex-Italian President: Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job Man who blew the whistle on Gladio tells Italy's largest newspaper attacks were run by CIA, Mossad Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio Francesco Cossiga has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy's most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies. Cossiga was elected President of Italian Senate in July 1983 before being winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985. Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed - an honest politician - and led the country for seven years until April 1992. Cossiga's tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio - a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Gladio's specialty was to carry out what they coined false flag operations, terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition. Cossiga's revelations contributed to an Italian parliamentary investigation of Gladio in 2000, during which evidence was unearthed that the attacks were being overseen by the U.S. intelligence apparatus. In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force ... the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security. Cossiga's new revelations appeared last week in Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper, Corriere della Sera. Below appears a rough translation. [Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part ... in Iraq [and] Afghanistan. Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9/11 in 2001, and is quoted in Webster Tarpley's book as stating that The mastermind of the attack must have been a sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel. Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga's assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies is highly unlikely to be mentioned by any establishment media outlets, because like the hundreds of other sober ex-government, military, air force professionals, allied to hundreds more professors and intellectuals - he can't be sidelined as a crackpot conspiracy theorist.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Extrapolating from this, it seems to me that if MMY really wanted people to levitate, and was enlightened himself, what he'd do is sit them down in a room with him and demonstrate levitation. Their bodies would learn the siddhi far more quickly and far more effectively than they would practicing some made-up technique in English. This is what Muktananda did with his students, no ? I don't know much about him, so I can't commment. Problem is that they are dependent of the shakti of the teacher to perform the siddhi, in the same way as the students of Rama were. That is if Rama students had independent experiences ofcourse. Just to clarify, Rama never claimed that he was trying to *teach* the siddhis to his students; he just demo'd them. Occasionally, he would demo some- thing like being able to see the future or read other people's minds and many of us in the audience would pick up on something and be able to do it ourselves later, but it wasn't really an I'm going to teach you how to do this scenario. As for the boost that one gets from the shakti or energy of the teacher not being permanent, I agree with you completely. It's sometimes *useful*, if that energy can lift you to the point where you can have, for example, far deeper experiences of meditation and samadhi than you normally exper- ience on your own, and having experienced them clearly helps you get back to those same exper- iences later, *on your own*. But otherwise, shakti junkies are just like any other kind of junkie in my opinion. I don't see the hit that one gets from a teacher as being terribly useful in the long run *unless* it leads to being able to repeat the deeper experience of things *on one's own*. If you can't do it *on your own* later, then what use was the glimpse of something you got while in the teacher's presence, eh? At best it's just a travelogue, a glimpse into your own future to give you hope. And that is why Muktananda praised Maharishi for giving knowledge for the whole world independent of him personally because he saw that Maharishis role was more universal and has effect beyond a small group of students. When Maharishi leaves we can go on and on with the practise independent of his shakti. True. You can go on with practices THAT DON'T WORK for as long as you want. :-) It works very well thank. ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic architecture - the power of life-giving principles
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What a big pile of ridiculous shit! What about all the vedic houses that burned? What about all the failed businesses in vedic houses. Just a huge stinking pile of cult crap. Interesting story, but pure shit nonethe less. There's one born every minute...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Nineeleven: Most sad, See-Eye-Ey??
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ex-Italian President: Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job Man who blew the whistle on Gladio tells Italy's largest newspaper attacks were run by CIA, Mossad Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio Francesco Cossiga has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy's most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies. Cossiga was elected President of Italian Senate in July 1983 before being winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985. Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed - an honest politician - and led the country for seven years until April 1992. Cossiga's tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio - a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Gladio's specialty was to carry out what they coined false flag operations, terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition. Cossiga's revelations contributed to an Italian parliamentary investigation of Gladio in 2000, during which evidence was unearthed that the attacks were being overseen by the U.S. intelligence apparatus. In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force ... the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security. Cossiga's new revelations appeared last week in Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper, Corriere della Sera. Below appears a rough translation. [Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part ... in Iraq [and] Afghanistan. Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9/11 in 2001, and is quoted in Webster Tarpley's book as stating that The mastermind of the attack must have been a sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel. Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga's assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies is highly unlikely to be mentioned by any establishment media outlets, because like the hundreds of other sober ex-government, military, air force professionals, allied to hundreds more professors and intellectuals he can't be sidelined as a crackpot conspiracy theorist. Seems very plausible to me. I've seen no other satisfactory explanation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
Richard, are you seriously supporting the McCain doctrine for continued war? Every candidate says they will end the war - like the Democrats said in 2006. The civilian death toll is close to one million by independant estimates using change in the death rates since the US invaded. And to a country that WAS NO THREAT to the US, and had nothing to do with 9-11. The US needs a very profound change in leadership. Please watch this 40 min interview with bestselling author Naomi Wolf on her new book called The End of America. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LvtQAQ6scfeature=related Here's a message today I just received from Michael McKay: This is a compilation of all Ron Paul's answers in yesterday's GOP Debate in Des Moines, Iowa. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2956858541995677517 As background, I also suggest reviewing this interview of David Walker, Comptroller General of the USA: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/60minutes/main2528226.shtml The US Currency Crisis and our Government Spending Crisis are very real issues. Dr Paul and David Walker are two of the ONLY public officials with the courage to talk about them. As you watch them both you will see how these issues are interlinked. One of my most important business advisers, some years ago, predicted the dramatic shrinking of the American middle class. You can see that unfolding, and now see why. I have given to many of you the book Whatever Happened to Penny Candy, by Richard Maybury (www.bluestockingpress.com) I still have copies to gift outjust call and I will send it to you. This book is a good place to start if you would like to get educated on the fundamentals of why Debasement of the Currency by the Federal Reserve coupled with the Mandates of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Maintaining our Militarily Enforced Worldwide Empire are going to sink us, and soon, if we do not turn it around. The good news is, we can turn it around. Please pass this on to everyone you care about. Love to you and yours, Michael Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really, if Clinton is going to suggest that Americans want the person most ready to be President on Day 1, which includes immediately taking charge of the war effort and dealing with our most pressing national security threats, she's just making the case for McCain. No other candidate even comes close to passing that test. And to say that we should vote for that candidate over someone who started running for President from his first day in the Senate is to again make the case for McCain over herself in a general election. Read more: 'Hillary questions her own candidacy, promotes McCain' By Drew Cline http://blogs.unionleader.com/andrew-cline/?p=1005
[FairfieldLife] Off's kind of TMmovement research published
front page of Fairfield Ledger, If it is published then it makes it true. Dec 11th Edition of the Ledger: Positive trends fulfill predictions for group meditation study. The results are in From the first-ever scientific demonstration project to document the long-term positive effects of large group meditations on national trends. According to quantum physicist Dr. John Hagelin, exec director of the International Center for Invincible Defense and the project's science director After a two-year surge, violent crime is down suddenly After decades of unremitting escalation, nuclear tensions between the US and North Korea are ending swiftly and peacefully violence is down 60% in Iraq Wall Street is on pace for its second most profitable year ever It is possible that any one or two of these positive trend, unforeseen by experts even six months ago, could have occurred on their own. But the fact that all this good news is coming now exactly as we predicted 500 days ago- is well beyond chance. It is the direct result of the coherence created by the Invincible America Assembly, Hagelin said. Extensive published research shows that coherence and positivity is created in collective consciousness when a small number of people practice the Transcendental Meditation and more advanced Yogic Flying techniques together in a group- The decrease is the direct and publicly predicted result of the increased coherence in national consciousness created by the large group of 1700 advanced Transcendental Meditation Program experts in Iowa, Hagelin said, The non-linear partial differential equations governing the weather satisfy the characteristics of chaos theory. As a consequence, weather patterns are sensitive to infinitesimal fluctuations a phenomenon popularly known as the Butterfly Effect. This means that even minute changes in people's behavior can precipitate or prevent a hurricane. The Invincible America Assembly is raising the quality of collective consciousness and behavior throughout society to be more harmonious, more life supporting. And Nature is responding more positively. End of story
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic architecture - the power of life-giving principles
--- do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What a big pile of ridiculous shit! What about all the vedic houses that burned? What about all the failed businesses in vedic houses. Just a huge stinking pile of cult crap. Interesting story, but pure shit nonethe less. There's one born every minute... What? A vedic house saved from an inferno? ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[FairfieldLife] Re: Pope v Gore
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://tinyurl.com/2t4nzy The *Pope* warning people about dubious ideology? Too funny!
[FairfieldLife] Re: [Norwegian] Fearless mouse
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.dagbladet.no/tv/index.html?clipid=24175 If that video had been shot in our house, the subject line would have to be changed to [American]Well-fed cat.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Walk Hard clip: the Beatles with Maharishi spoofed
...almost as good as the Monkees!! --- george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: youtube preview of the upcoming rediculous comedy: Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story. featured in this clip: the Beatles visit to Maharishi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooX8nHa5rrc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[FairfieldLife] It's true! Satan and Jesus ARE brothers...
[Jesus And Satan Illusion]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
This is not published in a peer-reviewed respected scientific journal and no one in their right mind would give it credence until it is. That would be like Vaj claiming research that is not published under peer-review in a respected scientific journal is somehow comparable to that which is. It would be foolish. It doesn't mean the data is wrong or not interesting, it just means that it is not validated in a scientific way, and therefore is no more than opinion at this point ( a bit like Rick's rumors ), and is not something that can be used as a measuring stick. So thank for re-iterating my point. Only research published in respected peer-reviewed scientific journals is valid in the 21st cenutry (like the 200+ published on TM so far -- and rising) OffWorld OffWorld--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: front page of Fairfield Ledger, If it is published then it makes it true. Dec 11th Edition of the Ledger: Positive trends fulfill predictions for group meditation study. The results are in From the first-ever scientific demonstration project to document the long-term positive effects of large group meditations on national trends. According to quantum physicist Dr. John Hagelin, exec director of the International Center for Invincible Defense and the project's science director After a two-year surge, violent crime is down suddenly After decades of unremitting escalation, nuclear tensions between the US and North Korea are ending swiftly and peacefully violence is down 60% in Iraq Wall Street is on pace for its second most profitable year ever It is possible that any one or two of these positive trend, unforeseen by experts even six months ago, could have occurred on their own. But the fact that all this good news is coming now exactly as we predicted 500 days ago- is well beyond chance. It is the direct result of the coherence created by the Invincible America Assembly, Hagelin said. Extensive published research shows that coherence and positivity is created in collective consciousness when a small number of people practice the Transcendental Meditation and more advanced Yogic Flying techniques together in a group- The decrease is the direct and publicly predicted result of the increased coherence in national consciousness created by the large group of 1700 advanced Transcendental Meditation Program experts in Iowa, Hagelin said, The non-linear partial differential equations governing the weather satisfy the characteristics of chaos theory. As a consequence, weather patterns are sensitive to infinitesimal fluctuations a phenomenon popularly known as the Butterfly Effect. This means that even minute changes in people's behavior can precipitate or prevent a hurricane. The Invincible America Assembly is raising the quality of collective consciousness and behavior throughout society to be more harmonious, more life supporting. And Nature is responding more positively. End of story
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The real test of the Anti-Science freaks on FFL
Yeah, I know you're right before starting. While I do react, I'm also independent of the reaction. Even so, I am pretty amazed at the lack of decent manners among people who claim an interest in the development of consciousness. And by manners I don't mean the prissy bullshit you'd find in a ladies' afternoon tea party in the fifties either. curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off, you amaze me! What makes you think I'm anti-science? Angela, If I were you I wouldn't take Off's comments as having anything to do with you. I think he is a smart. somtimes entertaining guy, but he is posting pretty much feedback-free. So don't think that you are having a dialog with a person who gives a shit or is really reading what you are writing. This is not to diminish how insightful or entertaining he can be, but to preserve your more sensitive nature. I think you are one of the posters who is really reacting to what is being written. I'm pretty sure at this point that this is not a universal standard here. I'm also pretty sure I am preaching to the choir on this point, right? off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Dec 12, 2007, at 1:13 AM, off_world_beings wrote: A million studies would not convince then about TM, yet it only takes about 40-50 to change my mind on TM. This is the absolute truth for me and totally proves their anti-science religious agenda to ignore science for their own pathetic opinions. What would it take for legitimate scientists to take TM/TMSP seriously? They are already. Five major universities conducting studies on TM as we speak, and $20 million (and rising) from NIH given to MUM for research based on robust studies. This fact alone makes you cringe so crooked Vaj it is hard to watch. You have nothing remotely of comparable strength to back up your weak anti-science stance. The poor anti-science folks like Turq, Steven, boo-lives, newmorning, Angela, Sal, Peter etc. ... are grasping at straws as they sink below the waves of the progress of science. OffWorld Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic architecture - the power of life-giving principles
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: What a big pile of ridiculous shit! What about all the vedic houses that burned? What about all the failed businesses in vedic houses. Just a huge stinking pile of cult crap. Interesting story, but pure shit nonethe less. There's one born every minute... What? A vedic house saved from an inferno? ;-) No, a sucker who buys the bullshit.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
On Dec 13, 2007, at 5:54 AM, t3rinity wrote: Vaj or one of his friends expressed, that Samyama is not restricted to Siddhis, and that this was refereing to a higher technique to attain Samadhi. So I looked up in the commentary of Vyasa, and found that he said that beginners should practise not the higher Forms of Samyama, but should start with the lower forms - the Siddhis. (The Siddhis were also called lower forms of attainmenment) I thought that the gudhartha-dipika specifically stated samyama on atma (atma-samyama). You seem to be changing that message-- but if you have a quote or a verse I'd like to hear it.
[FairfieldLife] Why a personal Guru is necessary....
The personal Guru becomes the inner guide when the aspirant succeeds in rising above body consciousness (physical) and into the subtler realms of spirit; the astral and causal planes of existence (The three worlds are the entire field of relative existence, MMY Gita). Once the aspiring Yogi purifies the nervous system from the attachments or *doshas* enough, he is able to consciously 'slip' out of the physical body and ride the kundalini serpent fire to higher and higher chakras (milestones on the path of kundalini, MMY). On these inner planes the 'radiant form' of the Master/Guru appears and acts as the guide and portal to the sanctum sanctorum, or the inner state of Atmanandam. Hence as Charlie Lutes once said, the Master/Guru introduces you to God. Since MMY is not a personal Guru I'm not sure who would perform that function in TM, perhaps Guru Dev or perhaps any form that is most pleasing to the Yogi, maybe even Christ or Buddha, I personally don't know. Maybe that is why these precocious Yogis from India always went on a search for a personal Guru early on...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
Since there has been some discussion about research on TM, I'm posting this recent press release from the University of Kentucky. It would be hard for even the most biased observer (and we have many on this board) not to recognize the value of this. The fact is, uncomfortable though it may be for some, that TM works. FOR RELEASE Transcendental Meditation More Effective in Reducing High Blood Pressure Compared to Other Stress Reduction Programs, Study Shows LEXINGTON, Ky. (Dec. 4, 2007) - People with high blood pressure may find relief from Transcendental Meditation, according to a definitive new meta-analysis of 107 published studies on stress reduction programs and high blood pressure, which will be published in the December issue of Current Hypertension Reports. The Transcendental Meditation technique produces a statistically significant reduction in high blood pressure that is not found with other forms of relaxation, meditation, biofeedback or stress management. The new meta-analysis reviewed randomized, controlled trials of all stress reduction and relaxation methods in participants with high blood pressure that have been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Blood pressure changes for the Transcendental Meditation technique included average reductions of 5.0 points on systolic blood pressure and 2.8 on diastolic blood pressure, which were statistically significant, according to the review. The other stress reduction programs did not show significant changes in blood pressure. Blood pressure changes associated with Transcendental Meditation practice were consistent with other controlled studies showing reductions in cardiovascular risk factors, improved markers of heart disease, and reduced mortality rates among participants in the Transcendental Meditation program. The new meta-analysis was conducted by researchers at the http://www.mc.uky.edu/medicine/University of Kentucky College of Medicine and at the NIH-funded Institute of Natural Medicine and Prevention at Maharishi University of Management. According to Dr. James Anderson, professor of medicine at the University of Kentucky and co-author of the new meta-analysis, the findings of the new review rebut a July 2007 report sponsored by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality and the http://www.nccam.nih.gov/NIH-National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, which concluded that most research on meditation is low quality and found little evidence that any specific stress reduction effectively lowers blood pressure. The new meta-analysis identified all high quality meditation studies published through 2006 and rigorously analyzed their effects, which the previous government report failed to do. Anderson said the new meta-analysis includes only high quality studies on all available stress reduction interventions. The studies on Transcendental Meditation were conducted at five independent universities and medical institutions, and the majority of them were funded by competitivegrants from the http://www.nih.gov/National Institutes of Health. The magnitude of the changes in blood pressure with the Transcendental Meditation technique are at least as great as the changes found with major changes in diet or exercise that doctors often recommend, Anderson said. Yet the Transcendental Meditation technique does not require changes in lifestyle. Thus many patients with mild hypertension or prehypertension may be able to avoid the need to take blood pressure medicationsall of which have adverse side effects. Individuals with more severe forms of hypertension may be able to reduce the number or dosages of their BP medications under the guidance of their doctor. Anderson added that long-term changes in blood pressure of this magnitude are associated with at least a 15 percent reduction in rates of heart attack and stroke. This is important to everyone because cardiovascular disease is the number one cause of death in the U.S. and worldwide, Anderson said. The study's biostatistician, Maxwell Rainforth, assistant professor of Physiology and Health Statistics at Maharishi University of Management, said the meta-analysis used state-of-the-art statistical methods to review 107 published studies in the field of stress reduction, relaxation and blood pressure. The twenty-three separate studies included in the final analysis met well-known criteria for high scientific quality. That is, these studies used repeated blood pressure measurements and participants were randomized to either a stress reduction technique or placebo-type control for at least eight weeks. The data we used are all published in peer-reviewed scientific journals, Rainforth said. According to Dr. Robert Schneider, director of the http://www.mum.edu/inmpInstitute of Natural Medicine and Prevention and co-author, this rigorously conducted meta-analysis indicates that the Transcendental Meditation program is distinctively effective compared to other
[FairfieldLife] TM reduces high blood pressure
The new meta-analysis was conducted by researchers at the http://www.mc.uky.edu/medicine/University of Kentucky College of Medicine and at the NIH-funded Institute of Natural Medicine and Prevention at Maharishi University of Management. The magnitude of the changes in blood pressure with the Transcendental Meditation technique are at least as great as the changes found with major changes in diet or exercise that doctors often recommend, Anderson said. Yet the Transcendental Meditation technique does not require changes in lifestyle. Thus many patients with mild hypertension or prehypertension may be able to avoid the need to take blood pressure medicationsall of which have adverse side effects. Did -edg read this ? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 5:54 AM, t3rinity wrote: Vaj or one of his friends expressed, that Samyama is not restricted to Siddhis, and that this was refereing to a higher technique to attain Samadhi. So I looked up in the commentary of Vyasa, and found that he said that beginners should practise not the higher Forms of Samyama, but should start with the lower forms - the Siddhis. (The Siddhis were also called lower forms of attainmenment) I thought that the gudhartha-dipika specifically stated samyama on atma (atma-samyama). Just occurred to me: perhaps Sanskrit compound words with 'saMyama' as their last component are not necessarily always /tatpuruSa-s/...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since there has been some discussion about research on TM, I'm posting this recent press release from the University of Kentucky. It would be hard for even the most biased observer (and we have many on this board) not to recognize the value of this. The fact is, uncomfortable though it may be for some, that TM works. Speaking as one of those biased observers :-), I can tell you that I knew that this press release was written by a TM teacher within several paragraphs. There are several simple tip-offs. Referring to TM as the Transcendental Meditation technique is the first. No one who hasn't been schooled in the proper use of this copyrighted term would ever do that; a real researcher would have just called it Trans- cendental Meditation. Another terminology tip-off is the repeated use of peer-reviewed scientific journals, a term I haven't really seen much *except* in TM-written press releases. Being in a peer- reviewed journal doesn't insure that the study is real, only that the methodology of the study passed muster among a reviewing group of scientists, based on what was sub- mitted to them. As has been shown often in tobacco industry sponsored studies, it's quite possible to LIE about one's methodology to the reviewing committee, just to get it published. The *only* thing that proves a study real scientifically is having it *repeated* by other researchers, not reviewed by other researchers. The next tip-off is the need to assert the *superiority* of TM, not just its comparative value compared to other techniques. Again, no real researcher who wasn't specifically pushing TM would have done that. A *BIG* tip-off is the admission that the entire *purpose* of this study is to rebut a report that was less than favorable to TM. WHY would any- one *but* TMers undertake such a study? Pure scientists wouldn't; they wouldn't care. There is also the giveaway term meta-analysis, which in this situation seems to mean cherry- picking the studies *we* think are relevant, and finding some way to analyze them statist- ically to slant them towards showing that TM is superior. They even *admit* that they cherry- picked the studies: includes only high quality studies on all available stress reduction interventions. WHO got to decide what was high quality and what was not, eh? Duh. The people who wanted to prove TM best, that's who. The statistician who massaged this cherry- picked set of data works for MUM. 'Nuff said. Finally, even though the cherry-picking and the data massaging were clearly done at MUM by TM personnel, the study wasn't released by MUM. WHY? Again, duh. Because it would look as if it came directly from the TM movement, which of course it did. So they found someone sym- pathetic (probably a TMer) from the University of Kentucky to publish it. Don't get me wrong -- there may BE some studies of merit among the ones cherry-picked by this MUM statistician. Some of them may even indi- cate some benefits to TM, and that's completely fine with me. But this study and this press release are as bogus pieces of pseudo-science as I've ever seen, and I cannot help but think that real researchers in the field will see it that way as well. My bet is that the only people who will be taken in by this study are those who were taken in long ago, and are trying to avoid having to admit that they *were* taken in. Hint, hint, feste. What is needed is REAL studies, done by non-TM researchers who have neither an axe to grind or a technique to sell, and whose only motivation is to find out if there is any verifiable benefit to meditation or not. Such a REAL study would not only have control groups who don't meditate, it would have other groups utilizing other forms of meditation, following exactly the same research protocols. And at the end, ALL data would be released and available to other researchers (not just cherry-picked data), and the statistical methods used would be described in detail so that other researchers could duplicate them in their own studies and see if they hold up. This is just another claim, coming from employees of an organization that has something to gain (money!) from claiming TM not only effective but superior. Only idiots would believe that the potential financial gain didn't bias their findings. FOR RELEASE Transcendental Meditation More Effective in Reducing High Blood Pressure Compared to Other Stress Reduction Programs, Study Shows LEXINGTON, Ky. (Dec. 4, 2007) - People with high blood pressure may find relief from Transcendental Meditation, according to a definitive new meta-analysis of 107 published studies on stress reduction programs and high blood pressure, which will be published in the December issue of Current Hypertension Reports. The Transcendental Meditation technique produces a statistically significant reduction in high blood pressure that is not found
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
Brian Horsfield wrote: Richard, are you seriously supporting the McCain doctrine for continued war? So, we are agreed that the U.S. is in a war. Then, I'm thinking of voting for the candidate who can win the war, not lose it. Ron Paul has zero experience winning any wars and apparently has no plan of how to win this one. I want to vote for a winner, not a loser, don't you? McCain has the most experience in fighting wars and the most experience in the U.S. Congress. And McCain is electable - I think he could be a winner. Hillary Clinton may be an electable candidate and I could vote for her as well. She supports the war and wants to win it - she supports regime change and voted to authorize the President to use force against Saddam Hussain. Bill Clinton thought Iraq had something to do with the war - he bombed Iraq and destroyed a soap factory and killed a camel. Every candidate says they will end the war - like the Democrats said in 2006. Maybe so, but I'm going to vote for the experienced warrior. If Duncan Hunter is nominated, I'd vote for him. He is a Vietnam Veteran - he knows what it takes to win a war. Hunter also has the best plan to make the U.S. safe with border security, an essential part of winning the war. The civilian death toll is close to one million by independant estimates using change in the death rates since the US invaded. According to what I've read, Saddam Hussien caused the death of over two million people. And to a country that WAS NO THREAT to the US, and had nothing to do with 9-11. Maybe so, but most of your congressional leaders voted to oust Saddam by any means neccessary including force. It's too late to change course now and change your mind and try to retreat. Losing the war is not an option. The single most important issue is how to win the war and how to secure America's borders. The Iraq war resolution passed the Senate with 77 votes in October 2002: WASHINGTON - In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions. Full story: 'Senate approves Iraq war resolution' CNN, Inside Politics, Friday, October 11, 2002 http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
Curtis, I'm *more* than open to suggestions from you or anyone else as to how these things could have been staged by a magician. I don't see that as being a relevant option when trying to explain away this particular guy's levitations. Your experiences are really compelling and I am not inclined to just toss them handily in some I know what happened box. That is one of the reasons I really enjoy your descriptions. I wish I could have had my own mind blown that way! There are levitation tricks for small groups that can be practiced on the street, but I don't think that is probably the most likely answer. Here is how I break it down in my perspective. You have often talked about how this guy seemed to exhibit a powerful ability to change your state of mind and perceptions. If I had to choose between a person having this ability over actually floating in the air, I would probably choose the first. I do believe that our minds are mysterious in many ways. I also recognize the limits of what we know about nonverbal communication. Having the ability to change someone's perception or state of mind isn't exactly chopped liver in my book. There are so many levels of the power of rapport that are unknown. Here is a more mundane but powerful experience in my own life. We were recently talking about a friend who passed away, Steve Shimer. He was a guy who had one of the most unique vibes of anyone I ever met. Since he was MMY's secretary I just always assumed that he was enlightened when I first met him. But as I spent more time with him I came to believe that this explanation didn't really cut it. He was just a special human. Although it may sound trite, Steve would look at me with such openness and kindness that it would shift my state every time. It was completely hypnotic in the best possible sense of the word. It created a space where thinking and feeling were enhanced. When I think of the guy I feel it again. I'm sure you can relate. So if this teacher had some version of this ability, and you were in deep rapport with him, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to think he might have developed some other interesting ways to shift a person's state. The French have a term folie aux duex that touches on how two people can enter into a shared mental state. On a less positive note, my personal interactions with mentally ill people have produced some real strange moments for me. Since I enjoy sinking into people, I have had my world rocked by entering into rapport with someone who was running some broken software. In your descriptions of how you relate to people you meet you have revealed your own empathic rapport is at a high level, so I know you understand. So those are my thoughts for what its worth. I am fascinated with learning more about how humans effect each other mentally. I feel like this area has some real magic to uncover as it is better understood. The fact is that you were there and I was not, so thanks for sharing the stories. It is nice to be reminded that in so many areas of life, I really don't have a clue! Maybe the guy could actually float. I wish he had allowed it to be studied if that were the case. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Any more exactitude to the answer, especially down to a yes/no is too much ensconced in a materialistic worldview. The rarity of siddhis makes them more mysterious, it's the loving intimacy that matters most, devotion. When it comes to demonstrating sidhis, yes/no is the ONLY criteria that matter. I would agree. It's *exactly* the same scenario as Off bragging about how Shotokan karate guys are the best and could kick anyone else's ass. Empty, self-important rhetoric until they actually DO kick some ass. As Cuba Gooding might say, Show me the money! Show us the levitation, don't talk about it and theorize about it. And it matters even more if a professional magician is in the room cuz they can smell the bullshit that Buddha only dreamed of. Again, I'd be the first to agree. It would be good to hear a professional magician try to explain away some of the levitation I saw the Rama guy do, because it often took place on the fly, in circumstances where apparatus didn't seem a possibility. I mean, we've hiked out into the desert for three hours, and the guy is wearing nothing more than shorts and a T-shirt and hiking boots, carrying nothing, and he just stops in the middle of an open space with nothing around him that could even be *used* as apparatus (the nearest trees or cliffs from which to string wires were half a mile away). And yet the dude just steps up off the sand and walks around for a few minutes, a foot above the ground. Or in a Denny's at 3 a.m., deserted except for him and a few of his students and one waitress. Rama didn't even
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
TurquoiseB wrote: My bet is that the only people who will be taken in by this study are those who were taken in long ago, and are trying to avoid having to admit that they *were* taken in. So, how much would you be willing to wager? According to what I've read, there have been several independent studies that indicate that the practice of TM lowers blood pressure. Scientists at the Medical College of Georgia discovered why people who practise transcendental meditation daily had significantly lower blood pressure than those who did not. 'Meditation lowers blood pressure' BBC News, Monday, 2 August, 1999 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/410003.stm 'Transcendental meditation improves blood pressure' Archives of Internal Medicine, June 12, 2006 http://www.theheart.org/article/714763.do
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
On Dec 13, 2007, at 11:29 AM, cardemaister wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 5:54 AM, t3rinity wrote: Vaj or one of his friends expressed, that Samyama is not restricted to Siddhis, and that this was refereing to a higher technique to attain Samadhi. So I looked up in the commentary of Vyasa, and found that he said that beginners should practise not the higher Forms of Samyama, but should start with the lower forms - the Siddhis. (The Siddhis were also called lower forms of attainmenment) I thought that the gudhartha-dipika specifically stated samyama on atma (atma-samyama). Just occurred to me: perhaps Sanskrit compound words with 'saMyama' as their last component are not necessarily always /tatpuruSa-s/... Context is certainly important and it appears samyama just refers generically to the dharana-dhyana-samadhi triad but in the gudhartha- dipika it's a compound atma-samyama which is rather specific. Also siddhi can have differing meanings as well. In some instances siddhi merely means success, as opposed to asiddhi, failure.
[FairfieldLife] Introduction and Invitation
Hi All, I am a new member here, invited to join to learn more about your group, as well as post about a new group I am forming. I am starting a group to learn about the history of nonviolence and nonviolent resistance of oppression. I am using a textbook called Solutions to Violence, which contains material compiled by former Washington Post writer Colman McCarthy. Writings from this book have been made available online at: http://www.salsa.net/peace/conv/index.html I long to be part of a community in which I can connect with others on the level of spirit, and honor teachings such as those of Amma to see the good in all while not being a lamb in the face of injustice. To this end, I have been incorporating Walter Wink's ideals, found in his book The Powers That Be: http://tinyurl.com/yt8ww7 and other of his writings, as well as other works by other people, into the Class of Nonviolence materials and discussions. This group has been meeting locally in the Los Angeles area, but I am wanting to expand it into an online community. For me personally, staying in touch with Amma's online groups, including posting Amma's words at AmmaBhakti Yahoo Group, helps me face each day invigorated. I am wanting thepowerzthatbe Yahoo Group to even further energize me to express love and compassion in my relationships and work in the world. These words of Amma's resound for me in creating this online community via thepowerzthatbe Yahoo Group: You do not have to believe in Amma, or in a God who resides up above in the sky on a golden throne. It is enough if you have faith in yourself. If you don't have faith in yourself, then there is not much to gain even if you believe in God. Faith in God is to strengthen your faith in you, the faith in your own Self. This is, in other words, called Self-confidence, confidence in your own Self. If that is not there you cannot succeed in life, whatever your field may be. Self-confidence is nothing but mental balance, courage and control over your own mind to confront the problems of life. You cannot escape from the problems of life...they are... unavoidable. How are you going to face them if you do not have faith in yourself? If this group sounds interesting to you, here is the link to it. I recommend going to the group homepage, reading each message posted (there are less than 10 at the moment), and posting your own introduction or inspiring message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thepowerzthatbe/ Thank you for your time. Regards, Mary Ann
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
You are right about one of the two named authors of the press release, who is an MUM employee and an acquaintance of mine. So what? Whatever you say about it, the people who practice TM will continue to enjoy the benefits that come from lowering their blood pressure. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Since there has been some discussion about research on TM, I'm posting this recent press release from the University of Kentucky. It would be hard for even the most biased observer (and we have many on this board) not to recognize the value of this. The fact is, uncomfortable though it may be for some, that TM works. Speaking as one of those biased observers :-), I can tell you that I knew that this press release was written by a TM teacher within several paragraphs. There are several simple tip-offs. Referring to TM as the Transcendental Meditation technique is the first. No one who hasn't been schooled in the proper use of this copyrighted term would ever do that; a real researcher would have just called it Trans- cendental Meditation. Another terminology tip-off is the repeated use of peer-reviewed scientific journals, a term I haven't really seen much *except* in TM-written press releases. Being in a peer- reviewed journal doesn't insure that the study is real, only that the methodology of the study passed muster among a reviewing group of scientists, based on what was sub- mitted to them. As has been shown often in tobacco industry sponsored studies, it's quite possible to LIE about one's methodology to the reviewing committee, just to get it published. The *only* thing that proves a study real scientifically is having it *repeated* by other researchers, not reviewed by other researchers. The next tip-off is the need to assert the *superiority* of TM, not just its comparative value compared to other techniques. Again, no real researcher who wasn't specifically pushing TM would have done that. A *BIG* tip-off is the admission that the entire *purpose* of this study is to rebut a report that was less than favorable to TM. WHY would any- one *but* TMers undertake such a study? Pure scientists wouldn't; they wouldn't care. There is also the giveaway term meta-analysis, which in this situation seems to mean cherry- picking the studies *we* think are relevant, and finding some way to analyze them statist- ically to slant them towards showing that TM is superior. They even *admit* that they cherry- picked the studies: includes only high quality studies on all available stress reduction interventions. WHO got to decide what was high quality and what was not, eh? Duh. The people who wanted to prove TM best, that's who. The statistician who massaged this cherry- picked set of data works for MUM. 'Nuff said. Finally, even though the cherry-picking and the data massaging were clearly done at MUM by TM personnel, the study wasn't released by MUM. WHY? Again, duh. Because it would look as if it came directly from the TM movement, which of course it did. So they found someone sym- pathetic (probably a TMer) from the University of Kentucky to publish it. Don't get me wrong -- there may BE some studies of merit among the ones cherry-picked by this MUM statistician. Some of them may even indi- cate some benefits to TM, and that's completely fine with me. But this study and this press release are as bogus pieces of pseudo-science as I've ever seen, and I cannot help but think that real researchers in the field will see it that way as well. My bet is that the only people who will be taken in by this study are those who were taken in long ago, and are trying to avoid having to admit that they *were* taken in. Hint, hint, feste. What is needed is REAL studies, done by non-TM researchers who have neither an axe to grind or a technique to sell, and whose only motivation is to find out if there is any verifiable benefit to meditation or not. Such a REAL study would not only have control groups who don't meditate, it would have other groups utilizing other forms of meditation, following exactly the same research protocols. And at the end, ALL data would be released and available to other researchers (not just cherry-picked data), and the statistical methods used would be described in detail so that other researchers could duplicate them in their own studies and see if they hold up. This is just another claim, coming from employees of an organization that has something to gain (money!) from claiming TM not only effective but superior. Only idiots would believe that the potential financial gain didn't bias their findings. FOR RELEASE Transcendental Meditation More Effective in Reducing High Blood Pressure Compared to Other Stress Reduction Programs, Study Shows
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Since there has been some discussion about research on TM, I'm posting this recent press release from the University of Kentucky. It would be hard for even the most biased observer (and we have many on this board) not to recognize the value of this. The fact is, uncomfortable though it may be for some, that TM works. Speaking as one of those biased observers :-), I can tell you that I knew that this press release was written by a TM teacher within several paragraphs. There are several simple tip-offs. Referring to TM as the Transcendental Meditation technique is the first. No one who hasn't been schooled in the proper use of this copyrighted term would ever do that; a real researcher would have just called it Trans- cendental Meditation. Another terminology tip-off is the repeated use of peer-reviewed scientific journals, a term I haven't really seen much *except* in TM-written press releases. Being in a peer- reviewed journal doesn't insure that the study is real, only that the methodology of the study passed muster among a reviewing group of scientists, based on what was sub- mitted to them. As has been shown often in tobacco industry sponsored studies, it's quite possible to LIE about one's methodology to the reviewing committee, just to get it published. The *only* thing that proves a study real scientifically is having it *repeated* by other researchers, not reviewed by other researchers. The next tip-off is the need to assert the *superiority* of TM, not just its comparative value compared to other techniques. Again, no real researcher who wasn't specifically pushing TM would have done that. A *BIG* tip-off is the admission that the entire *purpose* of this study is to rebut a report that was less than favorable to TM. WHY would any- one *but* TMers undertake such a study? Pure scientists wouldn't; they wouldn't care. There is also the giveaway term meta-analysis, which in this situation seems to mean cherry- picking the studies *we* think are relevant, and finding some way to analyze them statist- ically to slant them towards showing that TM is superior. They even *admit* that they cherry- picked the studies: includes only high quality studies on all available stress reduction interventions. WHO got to decide what was high quality and what was not, eh? Duh. The people who wanted to prove TM best, that's who. The statistician who massaged this cherry- picked set of data works for MUM. 'Nuff said. Finally, even though the cherry-picking and the data massaging were clearly done at MUM by TM personnel, the study wasn't released by MUM. WHY? Again, duh. Because it would look as if it came directly from the TM movement, which of course it did. So they found someone sym- pathetic (probably a TMer) from the University of Kentucky to publish it. Don't get me wrong -- there may BE some studies of merit among the ones cherry-picked by this MUM statistician. Some of them may even indi- cate some benefits to TM, and that's completely fine with me. But this study and this press release are as bogus pieces of pseudo-science as I've ever seen, and I cannot help but think that real researchers in the field will see it that way as well. My bet is that the only people who will be taken in by this study are those who were taken in long ago, and are trying to avoid having to admit that they *were* taken in. Hint, hint, feste. What is needed is REAL studies, done by non-TM researchers who have neither an axe to grind or a technique to sell, and whose only motivation is to find out if there is any verifiable benefit to meditation or not. Such a REAL study would not only have control groups who don't meditate, it would have other groups utilizing other forms of meditation, following exactly the same research protocols. And at the end, ALL data would be released and available to other researchers (not just cherry-picked data), and the statistical methods used would be described in detail so that other researchers could duplicate them in their own studies and see if they hold up. This is just another claim, coming from employees of an organization that has something to gain (money!) from claiming TM not only effective but superior. Only idiots would believe that the potential financial gain didn't bias their findings. I agree with all of the above but want to add this comment. In fact, the TM-blood pressure studies are the best of all the TM studies, maybe the only ones that really impress me. Whether TM is the best method for reducing blood pressure or not depends on who is doing the meta-analysis, but clearly TM has beneficial effects. The problem I have and most of us criticizing TMO science have is that feste and other TBs take
Re: [FairfieldLife] Why a personal Guru is necessary....
BillyG. wrote: The personal Guru becomes the inner guide when the aspirant succeeds in rising above body consciousness (physical) and into the subtler realms of spirit; the astral and causal planes of existence (The three worlds are the entire field of relative existence, MMY Gita). Once the aspiring Yogi purifies the nervous system from the attachments or *doshas* enough, he is able to consciously 'slip' out of the physical body and ride the kundalini serpent fire to higher and higher chakras (milestones on the path of kundalini, MMY). On these inner planes the 'radiant form' of the Master/Guru appears and acts as the guide and portal to the sanctum sanctorum, or the inner state of Atmanandam. Hence as Charlie Lutes once said, the Master/Guru introduces you to God. Since MMY is not a personal Guru I'm not sure who would perform that function in TM, perhaps Guru Dev or perhaps any form that is most pleasing to the Yogi, maybe even Christ or Buddha, I personally don't know. Maybe that is why these precocious Yogis from India always went on a search for a personal Guru early on... You walk away from TM as I did many years ago and after a while I came across a guru here in the US through a friend. Basically a guru is someone who has mastered a path (sort of like mastering a guitar) and can teach you to master the same path. It's not as big a deal as a lot of people make it out to be. There are plenty of these people all over of the world. Some advertise themselves usually in the Indian press as astrologers. And the charlatans way outnumber the real ones so you have to be knowledgeable to separate the wheat from the chaff. I tested my guru (and him me) for six months before I started. Personal gurus have the time and the authority to teach you things like mantra shastra and above all answer questions one on one especially the ones that can't be addressed in a group. Those are the things a pop guru can't do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
According to what I've read, there have been several independent studies that indicate that the practice of TM lowers blood pressure. Vaj wrote: In many ways this is just like the TM coherence scam Like I said, your comments a highly biased. where they attempted to make a slight up-click in waking state coherence appear significant. It was actually rather unremarkable. And your other comments are misinformed and misleading. According to this report, the reduction in risk was significant: The reported decrease, measured by ultrasound, was tiny -- about 98 hundredths of a millimeter (slightly less than four-hundredths of an inch) -- but significant, the study concluded. Just that small reduction in deposits could reduce the risk of heart attack by 11 percent, and reduce the risk of stroke by 15 percent. Full story: 'Meditation may lower blood pressure' CNN, July 24, 2000 http://tinyurl.com/2bjkdc
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
Me, too, but that would have taken away the conundrum aspect of it all, and most of the time I really *enjoy* that -- not knowing exactly what to think about it all. Being comfortable with ambiguity. That takes a bit of practice doesn't it? Thanks for the detailed response. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Curtis, I'm *more* than open to suggestions from you or anyone else as to how these things could have been staged by a magician. I don't see that as being a relevant option when trying to explain away this particular guy's levitations. Your experiences are really compelling and I am not inclined to just toss them handily in some I know what happened box. That is one of the reasons I really enjoy your descriptions. I wish I could have had my own mind blown that way! Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it. :-) As I've suggested, having to live with this stuff is not as easy as it sounds. Thanks for replying...I'll spend my last post of the week bouncing off of your impressions (as opposed to arguing with them). There are levitation tricks for small groups that can be practiced on the street, but I don't think that is probably the most likely answer. Nor do I. The environments in which I and others saw these things just didn't lend themselves to apparatus of any kind. I honestly don't think that's a possibility, much less a likelihood. Here is how I break it down in my perspective. You have often talked about how this guy seemed to exhibit a powerful ability to change your state of mind and perceptions. If I had to choose between a person having this ability over actually floating in the air, I would probably choose the first. And I have *no problem* with this. As I've said many times, I not only don't know whether a camera trained on the scene would have recorded some of the siddhis I witnessed, I have severe *doubts* that they would have. I consider it *likely* that what I saw was some kind of subtle level phenomenon that wouldn't be perceived by a camera. In other words, I am *not* claiming that he was actually floating in mid-air because I have nothing with which *to* assert that. It could have been that something was happening that caused dozens to hundreds of people at a time to *perceive* him as floating in mid-air. One of the reasons I'm comfortable with saying this is another of the siddhis I witnessed often, invisibility. I'll give you a sample scenario. I'm sitting in the desert on one of our hikes there, and the Rama guy comes walking along in front of the group and pauses when he gets to me. He's not looking directly at me or singling me out or anything; he just stopped there and continued giving a talk to the whole group. But as I'm sitting there watching this guy who is at best 2-3 feet in front of me, all of a sudden his body starts to turn transparent. First it gets a little opaque, and then fully transparent, and I can see the canyon in the background and the night stars *through* a faint outline of where he used to be. This is such a shock to me that I start leaning back and forth to shift perspective, to see if the background objects change perspective the way they really would if I were really looking through him. They do. OK, now in such a situation, did the guy *really* disappear? Well, of course not. Even in you can somehow justify violating the laws of physics and floating in the air to levitate, what is gonna explain someone really going invisible. What it seemed like was more like the light got bent in such a way that it seemed not to reflect off of him any more, but passed through him, as if he were not solid, more a hologram. I'm pretty sure that if I'd had a camera, its eye wouldn't have recorded the invisibility. But mine did. So *something* happened to cause the *perception* of invisibility, of light passing through a body rather than bouncing off of it. What that some- thing is I don't understand. I know it wasn't suggestion, because in none of the many times I saw this phenomenon was it ever suggested to me that I should; it just happened, and was always a surprise when it did. So, similarly, is there a possibility that what happened with his levitating was that my state of attention was shifted such that I perceived something on a different level of existence that wasn't there on the surface level of existence? You betcha. I do believe that our minds are mysterious in many ways. I also recognize the limits of what we know about nonverbal communication. Having the ability to change someone's perception or state of mind isn't exactly chopped liver in my book. Mine, either. :-) Even if that were the *only* thing going on, as you say, that's not chopped
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curtis, I'm *more* than open to suggestions from you or anyone else as to how these things could have been staged by a magician. I don't see that as being a relevant option when trying to explain away this particular guy's levitations. Your experiences are really compelling and I am not inclined to just toss them handily in some I know what happened box. That is one of the reasons I really enjoy your descriptions. I wish I could have had my own mind blown that way! Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it. :-) As I've suggested, having to live with this stuff is not as easy as it sounds. Thanks for replying...I'll spend my last post of the week bouncing off of your impressions (as opposed to arguing with them). There are levitation tricks for small groups that can be practiced on the street, but I don't think that is probably the most likely answer. Nor do I. The environments in which I and others saw these things just didn't lend themselves to apparatus of any kind. I honestly don't think that's a possibility, much less a likelihood. Here is how I break it down in my perspective. You have often talked about how this guy seemed to exhibit a powerful ability to change your state of mind and perceptions. If I had to choose between a person having this ability over actually floating in the air, I would probably choose the first. And I have *no problem* with this. As I've said many times, I not only don't know whether a camera trained on the scene would have recorded some of the siddhis I witnessed, I have severe *doubts* that they would have. I consider it *likely* that what I saw was some kind of subtle level phenomenon that wouldn't be perceived by a camera. In other words, I am *not* claiming that he was actually floating in mid-air because I have nothing with which *to* assert that. It could have been that something was happening that caused dozens to hundreds of people at a time to *perceive* him as floating in mid-air. One of the reasons I'm comfortable with saying this is another of the siddhis I witnessed often, invisibility. I'll give you a sample scenario. I'm sitting in the desert on one of our hikes there, and the Rama guy comes walking along in front of the group and pauses when he gets to me. He's not looking directly at me or singling me out or anything; he just stopped there and continued giving a talk to the whole group. But as I'm sitting there watching this guy who is at best 2-3 feet in front of me, all of a sudden his body starts to turn transparent. First it gets a little opaque, and then fully transparent, and I can see the canyon in the background and the night stars *through* a faint outline of where he used to be. This is such a shock to me that I start leaning back and forth to shift perspective, to see if the background objects change perspective the way they really would if I were really looking through him. They do. OK, now in such a situation, did the guy *really* disappear? Well, of course not. Even in you can somehow justify violating the laws of physics and floating in the air to levitate, what is gonna explain someone really going invisible. What it seemed like was more like the light got bent in such a way that it seemed not to reflect off of him any more, but passed through him, as if he were not solid, more a hologram. I'm pretty sure that if I'd had a camera, its eye wouldn't have recorded the invisibility. But mine did. So *something* happened to cause the *perception* of invisibility, of light passing through a body rather than bouncing off of it. What that some- thing is I don't understand. I know it wasn't suggestion, because in none of the many times I saw this phenomenon was it ever suggested to me that I should; it just happened, and was always a surprise when it did. So, similarly, is there a possibility that what happened with his levitating was that my state of attention was shifted such that I perceived something on a different level of existence that wasn't there on the surface level of existence? You betcha. I do believe that our minds are mysterious in many ways. I also recognize the limits of what we know about nonverbal communication. Having the ability to change someone's perception or state of mind isn't exactly chopped liver in my book. Mine, either. :-) Even if that were the *only* thing going on, as you say, that's not chopped liver. There are so many levels of the power of rapport that are unknown. Here is a more mundane but powerful experience in my own life. We were recently talking about a friend who passed away, Steve Shimer. He was a guy who had one of the most unique vibes of anyone I ever met. Since he was MMY's secretary I just always assumed that he was enlightened when I first met him. But as I spent more time with him I came to believe that this explanation didn't
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
On Dec 13, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: My bet is that the only people who will be taken in by this study are those who were taken in long ago, and are trying to avoid having to admit that they *were* taken in. So, how much would you be willing to wager? According to what I've read, there have been several independent studies that indicate that the practice of TM lowers blood pressure. It does, but the amount was insignificant (small, non-significant improvement the Alberta meta-analysis showed), the study giving the best claim for TM also happened to be of the shortest duration of any study and The medium- or long-term trials did not find statistically significant differences between TM® and HE [Health Education] for changes in SBP [Systolic Blood Pressure]. What's also bizarre and an obvious attempt to make tiny, insignificant drops in BP look significant is what they compared it to: Health Education. I'd like to see a comparison to other relaxing forms of meditation. But if they did that, their control would truly render the changes they are so desperately trying to tout, look truly unimpressive. In many ways this is just like the TM coherence scam where they attempted to make a slight up-click in waking state coherence appear significant. It was actually rather unremarkable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
Vaj wrote: There's been a lot of desperation from the TM side as their science has been shown to be unsound, esp. their cardiac claims. This is merely another attempt to side-step those findings. The claim that TM lowers blood pressure is one of the most agreed on effects of the TM practice, according to most researchers. Your comments indicate a severe bias, so cannot be trusted. You almost always attempt to mislead and misinform. You are next to worthless as an informer. Almost all researchers on meditation agree that ANY form of meditation lowers blood pressure. ...the American Heart Association noted that people with high blood pressure may want to medicate and meditate. Full story: 'Meditation may lower blood pressure' CNN, July 24, 2000 http://tinyurl.com/2bjkdc
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
On Dec 13, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: According to what I've read, there have been several independent studies that indicate that the practice of TM lowers blood pressure. Vaj wrote: In many ways this is just like the TM coherence scam Like I said, your comments a highly biased. Again, not my comments, they are the findings of world-class Neuroscientists.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why a personal Guru is necessary....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You walk away from TM as I did many years ago and after a while I came across a guru here in the US through a friend. Basically a guru is someone who has mastered a path (sort of like mastering a guitar) and can teach you to master the same path. Indeed if the Guru is a Sat-Guru he can bring you directly to God, however if the Guru is merely a human teacher (like many are, maybe even MMY) he can still give you a good Sadhana but will be unable to assist you on the inner planes because he must be enlightened to do that and hence the title Sat-Guru or true guru. However, even if you have a Sat Guru, he still merely acts as a human teacher until the student has achieved (by his Sadhana) the out of Body experience, i.e. has consciously risen above body consciousness and into the astral/spiritual realms were he meets the Guru awaiting his arrival to introduce and guide him to the great Sat-Chit-Anandam. It's not as big a deal as a lot of people make it out to be. There are plenty of these people all over of the world. Some advertise themselves usually in the Indian press as astrologers. And the charlatans way outnumber the real ones so you have to be knowledgeable to separate the wheat from the chaff. I tested my guru (and him me) for six months before I started. Personal gurus have the time and the authority to teach you things like mantra shastra and above all answer questions one on one especially the ones that can't be addressed in a group. Those are the things a pop guru can't do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
On Dec 13, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Vaj wrote: There's been a lot of desperation from the TM side as their science has been shown to be unsound, esp. their cardiac claims. This is merely another attempt to side-step those findings. The claim that TM lowers blood pressure is one of the most agreed on effects of the TM practice, according to most researchers. I would hope ALL researchers would agree it drops BP. That's a no- brainer. But unfortunately, the amount of drop is insignificant according to objective science. Your comments indicate a severe bias, so cannot be trusted. Uh, they're not my comments, they're are researchers from the Univ. of Alberta. Don't you know you're supposed to read the posts before responding?
[FairfieldLife] Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Richard, It seems you're being jingoistic. Extremely so. It is appalling and disturbing. I'm going to rip you a new one, so grab your ass, and see you can stand a look into the mirror. Of the 1000 people who read this, I'm guessing 950+ will agree with this assessment of your immoral presentation. For all your education on Eastern Wisdom, you're coming-off, below, as someone who would be saying my country right or wrong and if they aren't white, kill 'em without regard. Yes? I have purposefully made the above statement way beyond what I hope you actually are resonant with, but unless you BACKTRACK BIGTIME, the above statement is rather a mild piece of scorn compared to what one should have happen as a punishment for almost any act that would emerge from the criminal mindset you're espousing. We invaded Iraq immorally, illegally, with brutal murderous intent and with stealing oil as our true reason for doing so. I find you guilty of mindfully ignoring: 1. the suffering of tens of millions of people, 2. the deaths of a million people, 3. the deaths of 4,000 US service men and women, 4. the ruination of our Bill of Rights, 5. the utter disgrace of America in the eyes of the world, 6. the possibility of WWIII, 7. the defense of doing first strike on Iran with nukes, and 8. the private armies that have been formed by BigBiz And that's just for starters. BigMedia's brainwashed masses have been forced into a mindset where 24 is considered entertainment, and righteous inquisition is a concept that's touted as one's civil duty -- see a terrorist, torture a terrorist. Only the warped personalities in the Roman Coliseum as they slavered for martyr blood could approach the low evilness of this conscious disregard for suffering in others. Richard, are you really this horrid? If so, you sully the group consciousness here with a black-hearted intent to persuade us of your blood-thirsty imperialistic marauding predatory immorality. If so, fuck you with a KKK flaming cross up your ass and out your mouth -- just to give you a taste of the hell you're surely destined to arrive at. Say it ain't so, Richard, and I'll apologize as creatively as I've besmirched you above. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Horsfield wrote: Richard, are you seriously supporting the McCain doctrine for continued war? So, we are agreed that the U.S. is in a war. Then, I'm thinking of voting for the candidate who can win the war, not lose it. Ron Paul has zero experience winning any wars and apparently has no plan of how to win this one. I want to vote for a winner, not a loser, don't you? McCain has the most experience in fighting wars and the most experience in the U.S. Congress. And McCain is electable - I think he could be a winner. Hillary Clinton may be an electable candidate and I could vote for her as well. She supports the war and wants to win it - she supports regime change and voted to authorize the President to use force against Saddam Hussain. Bill Clinton thought Iraq had something to do with the war - he bombed Iraq and destroyed a soap factory and killed a camel. Every candidate says they will end the war - like the Democrats said in 2006. Maybe so, but I'm going to vote for the experienced warrior. If Duncan Hunter is nominated, I'd vote for him. He is a Vietnam Veteran - he knows what it takes to win a war. Hunter also has the best plan to make the U.S. safe with border security, an essential part of winning the war. The civilian death toll is close to one million by independant estimates using change in the death rates since the US invaded. According to what I've read, Saddam Hussien caused the death of over two million people. And to a country that WAS NO THREAT to the US, and had nothing to do with 9-11. Maybe so, but most of your congressional leaders voted to oust Saddam by any means neccessary including force. It's too late to change course now and change your mind and try to retreat. Losing the war is not an option. The single most important issue is how to win the war and how to secure America's borders. The Iraq war resolution passed the Senate with 77 votes in October 2002: WASHINGTON - In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions. Full story: 'Senate approves Iraq war resolution' CNN, Inside Politics, Friday, October 11, 2002 http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state o
Barry writes snipped: Me, too, but that would have taken away the conundrum aspect of it all, and most of the time I really *enjoy* that -- not knowing exactly what to think about it all. TomT: My experience is that the only thing I know for sure is I DONT KNOW! appears to be the operative word of every day. So be IT.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state o
T3rinity writes snipped: Samayama on the lower forms would thus prepare the nervous system. purify it and make it subtle, which is its only purpose. Enlightenment itself cannot be given. It comes by itself by the recognition of the Self by Itself, so only purification is most important. So, to sum it up, actual attainment of Siddhis was not the goal, the way, Samayama is the goal. Tom T: Patanjali chapter 3 Sutra 55 And when the translucent intellect is as clear as the Self, there is Enlightenment.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Duveyoung wrote: We invaded Iraq immorally, illegally, with brutal murderous intent and with stealing oil as our true reason for doing so. The U.S. Senate voted 77-23 to authorize the President to use force to unseat Saddam Hussein. The majority of the leaders in Great Britain and Australia agreed. Most of them haven't changed their minds about this decision. All I'm saying is that if it's true that we are in a war, then I would vote for the party and the candidate that I think can win the war. I don't want to be on the losing side of a war - that would be suicide. The U.S. has never before lost a war and I don't think we will lose this one. Iraq is just a battle in the worldwide war against the terrorists. Really, if Clinton is going to suggest that Americans want the person most ready to be President on Day 1, which includes immediately taking charge of the war effort and dealing with our most pressing national security threats, she's just making the case for McCain. No other candidate even comes close to passing that test. And to say that we should vote for that candidate over someone who started running for President from his first day in the Senate is to again make the case for McCain over herself in a general election. Read more: 'Hillary questions her own candidacy, promotes McCain' By Drew Cline http://blogs.unionleader.com/andrew-cline/?p=1005
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why a personal Guru is necessary....
BillyG. wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You walk away from TM as I did many years ago and after a while I came across a guru here in the US through a friend. Basically a guru is someone who has mastered a path (sort of like mastering a guitar) and can teach you to master the same path. Indeed if the Guru is a Sat-Guru he can bring you directly to God, however if the Guru is merely a human teacher (like many are, maybe even MMY) he can still give you a good Sadhana but will be unable to assist you on the inner planes because he must be enlightened to do that and hence the title Sat-Guru or true guru. However, even if you have a Sat Guru, he still merely acts as a human teacher until the student has achieved (by his Sadhana) the out of Body experience, i.e. has consciously risen above body consciousness and into the astral/spiritual realms were he meets the Guru awaiting his arrival to introduce and guide him to the great Sat-Chit-Anandam. What you want is an archarya. Preferably a tantra archarya since there is no support for the renunciate path in the west. They have the capabilities to do what you are saying though most of it is quite simple but some charlatans have blown it a bit out of proportion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
He lives under a bridge. What would you expect? I don't know how he gets any HDTV reception with rabbit ears under a bridge. :D Duveyoung wrote: Richard, It seems you're being jingoistic. Extremely so. It is appalling and disturbing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why a personal Guru is necessary....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you want is an archarya. Preferably a tantra archarya since there is no support for the renunciate path in the west. They have the capabilities to do what you are saying though most of it is quite simple but some charlatans have blown it a bit out of proportion. Yeah, you can get Deeksha at the corner dime store now!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Richard, Come on. You've increased your posting here recently and seem to be trying to actually communicate instead of, you know, like me, rant and run. But for you to cite the Senate vote as justification for war is sheer disingeniuity. Are you forgetting the WMD lies? Who cares if Saddam murdered 2 million -- this justifies our killing another million? And we put Saddam in power, so his murders are on our watch not to speak of our karma. And we lost the Viet Nam war -- period. More telling is your avoidance of addressing the issue of suffering. You seem to not understand pain. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Duveyoung wrote: We invaded Iraq immorally, illegally, with brutal murderous intent and with stealing oil as our true reason for doing so. The U.S. Senate voted 77-23 to authorize the President to use force to unseat Saddam Hussein. The majority of the leaders in Great Britain and Australia agreed. Most of them haven't changed their minds about this decision. All I'm saying is that if it's true that we are in a war, then I would vote for the party and the candidate that I think can win the war. I don't want to be on the losing side of a war - that would be suicide. The U.S. has never before lost a war and I don't think we will lose this one. Iraq is just a battle in the worldwide war against the terrorists. Really, if Clinton is going to suggest that Americans want the person most ready to be President on Day 1, which includes immediately taking charge of the war effort and dealing with our most pressing national security threats, she's just making the case for McCain. No other candidate even comes close to passing that test. And to say that we should vote for that candidate over someone who started running for President from his first day in the Senate is to again make the case for McCain over herself in a general election. Read more: 'Hillary questions her own candidacy, promotes McCain' By Drew Cline http://blogs.unionleader.com/andrew-cline/?p=1005
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Since there has been some discussion about research on TM, I'm posting this recent press release from the University of Kentucky. It would be hard for even the most biased observer (and we have many on this board) not to recognize the value of this. The fact is, uncomfortable though it may be for some, that TM works. Speakin I agree with all of the above but want to add this comment. In fact, the TM-blood pressure studies are the best of all the TM studies, maybe the only ones that really impress me. Whether TM is the best method for reducing blood pressure or not depends on who is doing the meta-analysis, but clearly TM has beneficial effects. The problem I have and most of us criticizing TMO science have is that feste and other TBs take this study to mean TM works, really meaning everything the TMO claims is true. In fact, the study referenced above suggests that TM has a beneficial effect on blood pressure, it doesn't prove anything else about TM. It doesn't prove anything about any other physiological effect (like the nonsense we use to say about 2x as deep a rest as sleep), much less about MMY's state of supreme enlightenment, the TMO's unique role in creating a golden age on earth, including invincibility to every nation and perfect health for everyone who uses maharishi ayurvedic products; it doesn't prove anything about how indian male brahmins (in the TMO) chanting prayers to gods eliminates all problems on earth, it doesn't prove anything about sidhas flying in domes creating world peace, it doesn't prove anything about group consciousness effects, doesn't prove anything about how living in homes built by the TMO solves all your problems (even if the homes are cheap, toxic and ugly like most of the ones in ffld). All of these above claims constitute 95% of what the TMO claims and puts its energy into, and there is nothing close to an impressive replicated study on any of it. The argument isn't over TM and blood pressure, it's (1) how the TMO sees science as just a tool to be manipulated to sell its products and (2) how TBs point to blood pressure study to prove TM works really meaning everything MMY says about anything must be true. I never said anything remotely resembling this. You invented it yourself. It's your fantasy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
On Dec 13, 2007, at 1:35 PM, feste37 wrote: The argument isn't over TM and blood pressure, it's (1) how the TMO sees science as just a tool to be manipulated to sell its products and (2) how TBs point to blood pressure study to prove TM works really meaning everything MMY says about anything must be true. I never said anything remotely resembling this. You invented it yourself. It's your fantasy. But isn't that really what you meant, feste? Most here would agree (and have many times in the past) that TM has positive effects on BP-- it's one of the main reason many of us started. It's the other ludicrous claims that most rational meditators can't bring themselves to take seriously. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
It does make Edg seem unhinged, but I politely suggested to Richard that investigating 9/11 as a possible inside job was a patriotic thing to do, a necessary thing to do if we want to keep our democracy, rather than a conspiracy nut case thing to do, and he never responded. So maybe Edg's unhinged rudeness will get results? We'll see. curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, fuck you with a KKK flaming cross up your ass and out your mouth -- just to give you a taste of the hell you're surely destined to arrive at. This is uncool and unnecessary Edg. How can you seriously expect Richard to discuss this topic with this kind of attack? It makes you sound unhinged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard, It seems you're being jingoistic. Extremely so. It is appalling and disturbing. I'm going to rip you a new one, so grab your ass, and see you can stand a look into the mirror. Of the 1000 people who read this, I'm guessing 950+ will agree with this assessment of your immoral presentation. For all your education on Eastern Wisdom, you're coming-off, below, as someone who would be saying my country right or wrong and if they aren't white, kill 'em without regard. Yes? I have purposefully made the above statement way beyond what I hope you actually are resonant with, but unless you BACKTRACK BIGTIME, the above statement is rather a mild piece of scorn compared to what one should have happen as a punishment for almost any act that would emerge from the criminal mindset you're espousing. We invaded Iraq immorally, illegally, with brutal murderous intent and with stealing oil as our true reason for doing so. I find you guilty of mindfully ignoring: 1. the suffering of tens of millions of people, 2. the deaths of a million people, 3. the deaths of 4,000 US service men and women, 4. the ruination of our Bill of Rights, 5. the utter disgrace of America in the eyes of the world, 6. the possibility of WWIII, 7. the defense of doing first strike on Iran with nukes, and 8. the private armies that have been formed by BigBiz And that's just for starters. BigMedia's brainwashed masses have been forced into a mindset where 24 is considered entertainment, and righteous inquisition is a concept that's touted as one's civil duty -- see a terrorist, torture a terrorist. Only the warped personalities in the Roman Coliseum as they slavered for martyr blood could approach the low evilness of this conscious disregard for suffering in others. Richard, are you really this horrid? If so, you sully the group consciousness here with a black-hearted intent to persuade us of your blood-thirsty imperialistic marauding predatory immorality. If so, fuck you with a KKK flaming cross up your ass and out your mouth -- just to give you a taste of the hell you're surely destined to arrive at. Say it ain't so, Richard, and I'll apologize as creatively as I've besmirched you above. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: Brian Horsfield wrote: Richard, are you seriously supporting the McCain doctrine for continued war? So, we are agreed that the U.S. is in a war. Then, I'm thinking of voting for the candidate who can win the war, not lose it. Ron Paul has zero experience winning any wars and apparently has no plan of how to win this one. I want to vote for a winner, not a loser, don't you? McCain has the most experience in fighting wars and the most experience in the U.S. Congress. And McCain is electable - I think he could be a winner. Hillary Clinton may be an electable candidate and I could vote for her as well. She supports the war and wants to win it - she supports regime change and voted to authorize the President to use force against Saddam Hussain. Bill Clinton thought Iraq had something to do with the war - he bombed Iraq and destroyed a soap factory and killed a camel. Every candidate says they will end the war - like the Democrats said in 2006. Maybe so, but I'm going to vote for the experienced warrior. If Duncan Hunter is nominated, I'd vote for him. He is a Vietnam Veteran - he knows what it takes to win a war. Hunter also has the best plan to make the U.S. safe with border security, an essential part of winning the war. The civilian death toll is close to one million by independant estimates using change in the death rates since the US invaded. According to what I've read, Saddam Hussien caused the death of over two million people. And to a country that WAS NO THREAT to the US, and had nothing to do with 9-11. Maybe so, but most of your congressional leaders voted to oust
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
No it is not. If you are reduced to claiming that someone really meant something quite different from what he actually wrote, there is no possibility of any meaningful discusssion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 1:35 PM, feste37 wrote: The argument isn't over TM and blood pressure, it's (1) how the TMO sees science as just a tool to be manipulated to sell its products and (2) how TBs point to blood pressure study to prove TM works really meaning everything MMY says about anything must be true. I never said anything remotely resembling this. You invented it yourself. It's your fantasy. But isn't that really what you meant, feste? Most here would agree (and have many times in the past) that TM has positive effects on BP-- it's one of the main reason many of us started. It's the other ludicrous claims that most rational meditators can't bring themselves to take seriously. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
But isn't that really what you meant, feste? Most here would agree (and have many times in the past) that TM has positive effects on BP-- it's one of the main reason many of us started. It's the other ludicrous claims that most rational meditators can't bring themselves to take seriously. I wonder if many movement people have any issues with BP? I would think that with a health conscious group this would be kind of a non issue. Certainly not enough to spend this much time on. Eat well, exercise, and hope you don't have a genetic pre-disposition for high blood pressure. Of course I could be way off with our aging mediators, maybe some of them have this problem now. I sure don't. I have to laugh at myself for being so concerned about this when I was young. I was so busy fixing problems I didn't even have that I ignored many real ones! It seems like the most likely people to actually do meditation are the least likely to need it for this. So it comes down to the other claims as the reason to meditate, and the health thing was just something useful for the sales pitch. The people who could use meditation the most are the least likely to do it IMO. The super agitate people I taught TM usually dropped it pretty quickly. Sitting still was torture for them. For a space case like me it was a blast! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 1:35 PM, feste37 wrote: The argument isn't over TM and blood pressure, it's (1) how the TMO sees science as just a tool to be manipulated to sell its products and (2) how TBs point to blood pressure study to prove TM works really meaning everything MMY says about anything must be true. I never said anything remotely resembling this. You invented it yourself. It's your fantasy. But isn't that really what you meant, feste? Most here would agree (and have many times in the past) that TM has positive effects on BP-- it's one of the main reason many of us started. It's the other ludicrous claims that most rational meditators can't bring themselves to take seriously. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
On Dec 13, 2007, at 2:10 PM, feste37 wrote: No it is not. If you are reduced to claiming that someone really meant something quite different from what he actually wrote, there is no possibility of any meaningful discusssion. OK, suit yourself. But that seems to be the subtext behind the often- defensive posts citing claims that TM works. Sal
[FairfieldLife] The Earth And Its People - lecture by Charlie Lutes
The Earth And Its People - 8/14/81 When on Earth, as in the present age, the number of demonic or destructive people is rapidly increasing, as a result natural disturbances are also increasing - such as cyclones, hurricanes, too much heat, heavy snowfalls, volcanoes, tidal waves, earthquakes, etc. The numbers of people murdered, robbed and injured also are increasing. Countries where there is terrible unrest, riots, revolutions,etc. indicate that these places are heavily inhabited by such destructive people who are causing turmoil wherever they are. It is said that Mars and Saturn are impious planets and when they shine brightly in the skies it is not a good sign. It is understood that when there are constant disturbances on Earth it is a sign that the destructive evil population is increasing, and as a result, fear is generated among the good people and they do not know where to turn for protection. The only place anyone can turn for refuge is to God. If the unwanted destructive population continues to increase, the Earth will become like hell. These destructive people are not concerned with developing a trade or honorable profession in life; rather they prefer to live on welfare or steal from others, and then some deal in drugs, etc. to make a living from the misery of others. In essence, this is transferring Hell to this Earth. Destruction also runs to higher levels of life such as those who would exploit the resources of the world, pollute the rivers, lakes and oceans, and destroy the forests, etc. for their own gain, regardless of who they may injure. They would also wage war without any good reason except for personal gain. Although there is a great price to pay for unnecessarily disturbing the peace of the world, they plunge on in their destructive ways creating their own particular hell and the hell to follow this life. For one creating hell on Earth also creates his own hell in afterlife. Some on this Earth believe the power of God to be only material, and in ignorance they pit themselves against this power. They also kill and conquer people and nations in the guise of freeing the people only to plunge them into slavery. This is why Christ said, Ye are of your father the devil and his works shall ye do. Those who are on the spiritual path are seeking the light of God; God will save them. All that is needed is devotion and perseverance. Even demons, when they are active in their destructive ways, believe that their power is awesome and that God is hiding from them. Such is the nature of their delusiveness. Again, they are very much disturbed when there is a religious fervor or a spiritual wave among the people for they fear this even though they do not know why or believe this. Those of a demonic or destructive nature always believe that if they have great wealth and power this will save them from the wrath of God. They believe all on Earth to be their property. When it isn't, and in countries where they try to drive God out and suppress religion, they are never, ever successful. For a time they may appear to be successful on the surface, but below the surface they are not really successful at all. There is, however, a constant war going on between the negative forces and the positive forces for control of the Earth. The Earth, like everything else, constantly fluctuates between the three modes, or is a combination of the three modes of ignorance, passion and Goodness. However, in the present time, the emphasis is on ignorance and passion, with Goodness running a poor third. The highest mode on Earth is Goodness, while the Almighty Creator and the Absolute is pure Goodness, whereas on Earth there is no state of pure Goodness. In pure Goodness there cannot possibly be any contamination of ignorance or passion. Hence, it is pure. The vibration would not permit the expression of either lessor mode. The main thrust of humanity in life is to gain oneness with God, or the pure light, and not become lost in the lesser expressions of light. For what seems like the light to us is really, in the absolute sense, still a lesser degree of darkness for we have not reached the end of the tunnel. When there comes a time of necessity on Earth an avatar comes and straightens everything out. The word, avatar, means One who descends, or God coming onto Earth. It is said that the Godly person is full of knowledge while the destructive person is full of ignorance. Also, the main difference between material enjoyment and spiritual enjoyment is that material enjoyment has limitations and spiritual enjoyment has no end and it keeps on increasing. The one great force that has the most binding influence on humanity is the sex force. In its lower projection of lust it becomes demonic, and there are those so caught up that they are possessed with a desire to kill in their pursuit of lust. This is why we must always keep our mind on God, or on the pure, because this protects us from becoming
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
You're right, of coursesweet truth and all that, but I reserve my right to be a thorn in the face of a briar patch. I love to use concepts at both ends of the spectrum. If I thought anyone was taking me seriously here, I'd have to reconsider this position, but who cares about my words? Hopefully those with a sense of poetry can enjoy my concoctions for what they are -- exuberance in creativity. I have posted some very nice sweet essays, and they get about one response on average. Proof that the mindset here is far more tuned into spotting error than seeing the light and praising it. So, I go with the crowd and yell my fool head off. Sue me. And, truly, what would one assign as punishment to anyone who would support the murder of whole countries, cultures and the children within them? Only God can be wise enough to begin to approach this issue, but if I saw anyone pouring gasoline on top of a child's head, I'd get physical immediately, yet 10,000 kids die of starvation everyday because of American foreign policies, and our soldiers -- real and the private army -- are now accused to have been brutal beyond measures THOUSANDS OF TIMES in Iraq. Torture R Us and taking the life of child's parent is nothing to us even though that kid will almost certainly become a terrorist. What would you do if a private army contractor gunned down your family? Do you think going to jail for the rest of your life would stop you from revenge? Get serious. You'd start making roadside bombs. When do I get to be politically active? -- at least with my harsh tone I'm conveying my turmoil. The way I see it, BushCo is going to do something big to declare martial law unless Hillary or a war-mongering Repug gets the nod. McCain, I love him for his sacrifice in Viet Nam, but this doesn't make him a good war-winner, or better yet, a peace maker. There's millions of Arabs here already -- where's the terrorism? All of them have relatives that were turned into hamburger, but our bridges still stand, our trains are not derailed, our nuke plants are not blown up, etc. etc. Call me stupid, but the Arabs in America must be saints to be daily forgiving so much and suffering such negativity in the BigMedia propaganda despite their forbearance. Outraged am I? Yep. Why aren't you? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, fuck you with a KKK flaming cross up your ass and out your mouth -- just to give you a taste of the hell you're surely destined to arrive at. This is uncool and unnecessary Edg. How can you seriously expect Richard to discuss this topic with this kind of attack? It makes you sound unhinged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Richard, It seems you're being jingoistic. Extremely so. It is appalling and disturbing. I'm going to rip you a new one, so grab your ass, and see you can stand a look into the mirror. Of the 1000 people who read this, I'm guessing 950+ will agree with this assessment of your immoral presentation. For all your education on Eastern Wisdom, you're coming-off, below, as someone who would be saying my country right or wrong and if they aren't white, kill 'em without regard. Yes? I have purposefully made the above statement way beyond what I hope you actually are resonant with, but unless you BACKTRACK BIGTIME, the above statement is rather a mild piece of scorn compared to what one should have happen as a punishment for almost any act that would emerge from the criminal mindset you're espousing. We invaded Iraq immorally, illegally, with brutal murderous intent and with stealing oil as our true reason for doing so. I find you guilty of mindfully ignoring: 1. the suffering of tens of millions of people, 2. the deaths of a million people, 3. the deaths of 4,000 US service men and women, 4. the ruination of our Bill of Rights, 5. the utter disgrace of America in the eyes of the world, 6. the possibility of WWIII, 7. the defense of doing first strike on Iran with nukes, and 8. the private armies that have been formed by BigBiz And that's just for starters. BigMedia's brainwashed masses have been forced into a mindset where 24 is considered entertainment, and righteous inquisition is a concept that's touted as one's civil duty -- see a terrorist, torture a terrorist. Only the warped personalities in the Roman Coliseum as they slavered for martyr blood could approach the low evilness of this conscious disregard for suffering in others. Richard, are you really this horrid? If so, you sully the group consciousness here with a black-hearted intent to persuade us of your blood-thirsty imperialistic marauding predatory immorality. If so, fuck you with a KKK flaming cross up your ass and out your mouth -- just to give you a taste of the hell you're surely destined to
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why a personal Guru is necessary....
BillyG. wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you want is an archarya. Preferably a tantra archarya since there is no support for the renunciate path in the west. They have the capabilities to do what you are saying though most of it is quite simple but some charlatans have blown it a bit out of proportion. Yeah, you can get Deeksha at the corner dime store now! Hmm, haven't noticed that at Wal-Mart.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No it is not. If you are reduced to claiming that someone really meant something quite different from what he actually wrote, there is no possibility of any meaningful discusssion. You said the blood pressure study proved that TM works. What does that mean to you? What most people who make that claim in ffld or on this forum mean is how dare you question MMY's scientifically validated programs to create world peace, perfect health and invincibility when studies show that TM works. You may be a more precise thinker about this than most though.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 5:54 AM, t3rinity wrote: Vaj or one of his friends expressed, that Samyama is not restricted to Siddhis, and that this was refereing to a higher technique to attain Samadhi. So I looked up in the commentary of Vyasa, and found that he said that beginners should practise not the higher Forms of Samyama, but should start with the lower forms - the Siddhis. (The Siddhis were also called lower forms of attainmenment) I thought that the gudhartha-dipika specifically stated samyama on atma (atma-samyama). No, it didn't. No mention of Atma in the translation I have. Referring to verse 21. You seem to be changing that message-- No. but if you have a quote or a verse I'd like to hear it. 21 But because of disturbances created by the results of actions that have started bearing fruit (prarabdha), vasana (past impressions) does not get destroyed. That is eliminated through samyama, the strongest of all (the disciplines). 22. The five disciplines, viz yama (restraint) etc. (P.Y.Su 2.29) practised before become conducive to that samyama which is a triad consisting of dharana, dhyan and samadhi (see ibid. 3.1.4) 23. However, absorption (samadhi) is quickly accomplished through special devotion to God. From that follows mano-nasa (elimination of the modifications of the mind) and vasana-ksaya (dissipation of past impressions.) 24. Knowledge of Reality (tattva-jnana), elimination of the modifications of the mind (mano-nasa), as also the dissipation of past impressions (vasana-ksaya) - when these three are practised together, Liberation while still being alive (Jivanmukti) becomes firm
[FairfieldLife] The Coming of the New World - lecture by Charlie Lutes (c1981)
It can be said that our world is really many worlds containing people at various levels of consciousness and behavior patterns, living within different geographical environments. So what may be truth for one level of consciousness and for one environment is probably not true for another. Some parts of the world reflect more negativity than other parts. Some parts are so negative that they are unable to embody constructive energy of expression. Also, some parts of the world will experience disastrous impacts either from human causes such as wars, etc., or from natural causes, such as earthquakes, tidal waves, fires, etc. The Earth at the present time is undergoing a cleansing of excess negativity. So, disasters of one nature or another will occur unless there are forces of creativity emerging in a strong fashion to neutralize the destructive forces. If we are in tune with God then a protective shield will surround us and keep us safe. In this world we experience just what we attract to ourselves, and this is determined by our attitude and by our devotion to God. Those who are in the process of expressing a more enlightened and positive awareness in life are attracting to themselves only creative and positive experiences. Their world holds no suffering or disaster for them - such is the nature of the world and the nature of nature itself. At the present time we live in a dual world; one open to experiencing negativity and destruction, the other open to manifesting positive creativity and peace in the world. The coming of the new age heralds many changes; some radical and some not so severe. These changes, though resisted by many, will come. They will be destructive to many, yet uplifting to others. It will be the end of the world for many, yet the beginning of a new world for many more. If we live the law, the law will support us. If we do not support the law, we will be abandoned by the self-same law. The first law of creation is the law of love. In the future there will be many souls who will not be able to incarnate on this planet, for to do so would be to expose themselves to vibrations beyond their ability to withstand. On the other hand, there are numerous higher beings who would like to incarnate upon this Earth, only the vibrations at present are too low and too gross for them, because the Earth of today does have very intense material vibrations of a low nature. The Earth of tomorrow will, however, be a vastly different heavenly Earth. That is why it will be called, Heaven on Earth. Many people feel that destruction is a fast way into the new age, but it is not. It only creates new burdens and in many cases retards our progress. The object is not to destroy the old, but rather to superimpose the new over the old. The Earth did not create the low vibrations. The humans did this. The Earth is now in the process of raising its own vibrations so that truly there will be a new heaven and a new Earth, and there will come a flood of love that will cover the Earth from pole to pole. Those coming into this Earth will be high souls, and the path to liberation will be made much easier. Because then, we will have mastered our own human nature and we will be on our way to become masters of nature and ultimately masters of all of the universe. The prophesies of the scriptures will be fulfilled and there will be a new heaven and a new Earth and a new Jerusalem (meaning spirituality) will descend upon the Earth. A new Earth of heavenly vibrations will create a new heaven and a new Jerusalem - this means spirituality will descend upon the Earth and the devil (meaning negativity and destructive forces) will be chained and cast into the bottomless pit; meaning that where love and spirituality reign negativity and hate cannot co-exist. It is the human who expresses one or the other. In the new age now upon us only our God nature will be expressed, and heaven will be on Earth for all to love and enjoy. We will now from day to day see the breakups of old patterns and the coming forth of new age patterns that will endure for two-thousand years. It will be very interesting for some and a disaster for others. ~~ Lectures by Charlie Lutes http://www.maharishiphotos.com/lecture2.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Earth And Its People - lecture by Charlie Lutes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Earth And Its People - 8/14/81 When on Earth, as in the present age, the number of demonic or destructive people is rapidly increasing, as a result natural disturbances are also increasing - such as cyclones, hurricanes, too much heat, heavy snowfalls, volcanoes, tidal waves, earthquakes, etc. The numbers of people murdered, robbed and injured also are increasing. Countries where there is terrible unrest, riots, revolutions,etc. indicate that these places are heavily inhabited by such destructive people who are causing turmoil wherever they are. It is said that Mars and Saturn are impious planets and when they shine brightly in the skies it is not a good sign. It is understood that when there are constant disturbances on Earth it is a sign that the destructive evil population is increasing, and as a result, fear is generated among the good people and they do not know where to turn for protection. The only place anyone can turn for refuge is to God. If the unwanted destructive population continues to increase, the Earth will become like hell. These destructive people are not concerned with developing a trade or honorable profession in life; rather they prefer to live on welfare or steal from others, and then some deal in drugs, etc. to make a living from the misery of others. In essence, this is transferring Hell to this Earth. Destruction also runs to higher levels of life such as those who would exploit the resources of the world, pollute the rivers, lakes and oceans, and destroy the forests, etc. for their own gain, regardless of who they may injure. They would also wage war without any good reason except for personal gain. Although there is a great price to pay for unnecessarily disturbing the peace of the world, they plunge on in their destructive ways creating their own particular hell and the hell to follow this life. For one creating hell on Earth also creates his own hell in afterlife. Some on this Earth believe the power of God to be only material, and in ignorance they pit themselves against this power. They also kill and conquer people and nations in the guise of freeing the people only to plunge them into slavery. This is why Christ said, Ye are of your father the devil and his works shall ye do. Those who are on the spiritual path are seeking the light of God; God will save them. All that is needed is devotion and perseverance. Even demons, when they are active in their destructive ways, believe that their power is awesome and that God is hiding from them. Such is the nature of their delusiveness. Again, they are very much disturbed when there is a religious fervor or a spiritual wave among the people for they fear this even though they do not know why or believe this. Those of a demonic or destructive nature always believe that if they have great wealth and power this will save them from the wrath of God. They believe all on Earth to be their property. When it isn't, and in countries where they try to drive God out and suppress religion, they are never, ever successful. For a time they may appear to be successful on the surface, but below the surface they are not really successful at all. There is, however, a constant war going on between the negative forces and the positive forces for control of the Earth. The Earth, like everything else, constantly fluctuates between the three modes, or is a combination of the three modes of ignorance, passion and Goodness. However, in the present time, the emphasis is on ignorance and passion, with Goodness running a poor third. The highest mode on Earth is Goodness, while the Almighty Creator and the Absolute is pure Goodness, whereas on Earth there is no state of pure Goodness. In pure Goodness there cannot possibly be any contamination of ignorance or passion. Hence, it is pure. The vibration would not permit the expression of either lessor mode. The main thrust of humanity in life is to gain oneness with God, or the pure light, and not become lost in the lesser expressions of light. For what seems like the light to us is really, in the absolute sense, still a lesser degree of darkness for we have not reached the end of the tunnel. When there comes a time of necessity on Earth an avatar comes and straightens everything out. The word, avatar, means One who descends, or God coming onto Earth. It is said that the Godly person is full of knowledge while the destructive person is full of ignorance. Also, the main difference between material enjoyment and spiritual enjoyment is that material enjoyment has limitations and spiritual enjoyment has no end and it keeps on increasing. The one great force that has the most binding influence on humanity is the sex force. In its lower projection of lust it becomes demonic, and there are
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right, of coursesweet truth and all that, but I reserve my right to be a thorn in the face of a briar patch. I am not even advocating only sweet truth here. I read your posts. But this kind of attack shuts down conversation was my point. It makes you seem as if you don't comprehend that complex issues may give rise to many points of view other than your own. It also pins something on a person that may have nothing to do with them. Anyone could get outraged about any topic and make someone a target for that idea. But it is doctrine over person to use a cult term. It doesn't allow for any nuance in the discussion once you have identified someone as personified evil. Outraged am I? Yep. Why aren't you? I may be picking different battles than you are. I love to use concepts at both ends of the spectrum. If I thought anyone was taking me seriously here, I'd have to reconsider this position, but who cares about my words? Hopefully those with a sense of poetry can enjoy my concoctions for what they are -- exuberance in creativity. I have posted some very nice sweet essays, and they get about one response on average. Proof that the mindset here is far more tuned into spotting error than seeing the light and praising it. So, I go with the crowd and yell my fool head off. Sue me. And, truly, what would one assign as punishment to anyone who would support the murder of whole countries, cultures and the children within them? Only God can be wise enough to begin to approach this issue, but if I saw anyone pouring gasoline on top of a child's head, I'd get physical immediately, yet 10,000 kids die of starvation everyday because of American foreign policies, and our soldiers -- real and the private army -- are now accused to have been brutal beyond measures THOUSANDS OF TIMES in Iraq. Torture R Us and taking the life of child's parent is nothing to us even though that kid will almost certainly become a terrorist. What would you do if a private army contractor gunned down your family? Do you think going to jail for the rest of your life would stop you from revenge? Get serious. You'd start making roadside bombs. When do I get to be politically active? -- at least with my harsh tone I'm conveying my turmoil. The way I see it, BushCo is going to do something big to declare martial law unless Hillary or a war-mongering Repug gets the nod. McCain, I love him for his sacrifice in Viet Nam, but this doesn't make him a good war-winner, or better yet, a peace maker. There's millions of Arabs here already -- where's the terrorism? All of them have relatives that were turned into hamburger, but our bridges still stand, our trains are not derailed, our nuke plants are not blown up, etc. etc. Call me stupid, but the Arabs in America must be saints to be daily forgiving so much and suffering such negativity in the BigMedia propaganda despite their forbearance. Outraged am I? Yep. Why aren't you? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: If so, fuck you with a KKK flaming cross up your ass and out your mouth -- just to give you a taste of the hell you're surely destined to arrive at. This is uncool and unnecessary Edg. How can you seriously expect Richard to discuss this topic with this kind of attack? It makes you sound unhinged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Richard, It seems you're being jingoistic. Extremely so. It is appalling and disturbing. I'm going to rip you a new one, so grab your ass, and see you can stand a look into the mirror. Of the 1000 people who read this, I'm guessing 950+ will agree with this assessment of your immoral presentation. For all your education on Eastern Wisdom, you're coming-off, below, as someone who would be saying my country right or wrong and if they aren't white, kill 'em without regard. Yes? I have purposefully made the above statement way beyond what I hope you actually are resonant with, but unless you BACKTRACK BIGTIME, the above statement is rather a mild piece of scorn compared to what one should have happen as a punishment for almost any act that would emerge from the criminal mindset you're espousing. We invaded Iraq immorally, illegally, with brutal murderous intent and with stealing oil as our true reason for doing so. I find you guilty of mindfully ignoring: 1. the suffering of tens of millions of people, 2. the deaths of a million people, 3. the deaths of 4,000 US service men and women, 4. the ruination of our Bill of Rights, 5. the utter disgrace of America in the eyes of the world, 6. the possibility of WWIII, 7. the defense of doing first strike on Iran with nukes, and 8.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do siddhis have ANYTHING to do with state of consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 5:54 AM, t3rinity wrote: Vaj or one of his friends expressed, that Samyama is not restricted to Siddhis, and that this was refereing to a higher technique to attain Samadhi. So I looked up in the commentary of Vyasa, and found that he said that beginners should practise not the higher Forms of Samyama, but should start with the lower forms - the Siddhis. (The Siddhis were also called lower forms of attainmenment) I thought that the gudhartha-dipika specifically stated samyama on atma (atma-samyama). No, it didn't. No mention of Atma in the translation I have. Referring to verse 21. You seem to be changing that message-- No. but if you have a quote or a verse I'd like to hear it. 21 But because of disturbances created by the results of actions that have started bearing fruit (prarabdha), vasana (past impressions) does not get destroyed. That is eliminated through samyama, the strongest of all (the disciplines). 22. The five disciplines, viz yama (restraint) etc. (P.Y.Su 2.29) practised before become conducive to that samyama which is a triad consisting of dharana, dhyan and samadhi (see ibid. 3.1.4) 23. However, absorption (samadhi) is quickly accomplished through special devotion to God. From that follows mano-nasa (elimination of the modifications of the mind) and vasana-ksaya (dissipation of past impressions.) 24. Knowledge of Reality (tattva-jnana), elimination of the modifications of the mind (mano-nasa), as also the dissipation of past impressions (vasana-ksaya) - when these three are practised together, Liberation while still being alive (Jivanmukti) becomes firm The above is gudhartha-dipika by Madhusudana Saraswati, preceding hi Gita commentary. The following is PYS III 6 Its application is by stages Vyasas commentary: The application of that samyama should be in that stage which is he next to the conquered stage, because nobody who has not conquered the lower stage, can achieve Samyama into the higher stage by jumping over the intermediate stage. So, by reason of its absence, whence can the visibility of his Intellective Vision come? Further the Samyama over the *lower stages* such as the *knowledge of the minds of others*, etc (obviously reffering to siddhis here, my comment) is not necesary for him who is established in the higher stage by virtue of the profound meditation upon Isvara. Why? On account of the achievement of that truth by other means. The conclusion is that the lower Samyama has to preced the higher Samyama unless there is an achievment by other means, e.g. Bhakti to God, which is also recommended by Madhusudana. 'Knowledge of the minds of others' etc is clearly a reference to Siddhis, and is called lower.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
Vaj wrote: Don't you know you're supposed to read the posts before responding? Vaj wrote: In many ways this is just like the TM coherence scam where they attempted to make a slight up-click in waking state coherence appear significant. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/157641
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
On Dec 13, 2007, at 2:14 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: I wonder if many movement people have any issues with BP? I would think that with a health conscious group this would be kind of a non issue. Certainly not enough to spend this much time on. Eat well, exercise, and hope you don't have a genetic pre-disposition for high blood pressure. Of course I could be way off with our aging mediators, maybe some of them have this problem now. I sure don't. I have to laugh at myself for being so concerned about this when I was young. I was so busy fixing problems I didn't even have that I ignored many real ones! Same here, pretty much, Curtis. I also believed the whole TM thing about staying away from Western doctors, counselors, etc. Bad idea to let someone else make decisions for you, especially medical ones. I did, however, have the sense not to buy into the whole AV thing, and I never got into Amrit. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Bhairitu wrote: He lives under a bridge. Maybe so, but I didn't vote for a loser like John Kerry. However, it should be noted that Kerry is a Vietnam Vet and voted to authorize the President to use force to unseat Saddam, so it looks like you're the jigoistic one in this topic. Ed will or should rip you a new one.
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Horsfield wrote: Richard, are you seriously supporting the McCain doctrine for continued war? So, we are agreed that the U.S. is in a war. Then, I'm thinking of voting for the candidate who can win the war, not lose it. Ron Paul has zero experience winning any wars and apparently has no plan of how to win this one. I want to vote for a winner, not a loser, don't you? You miss the point. Wars against non nation state enemies are pretty much unwinnable since there is no definable enemy. You have to essentially kill everybody to truly declare victory. The war on terror is not supposed to be won - a permanent war. Cheney more or less said as much. The US has LOST every war since WWII. McCain should know that. Paul voted against the war in Iraq and against the Patriot Act showing true courage and leadership to follow the Constition rather the fear mongering promoters of war. McCain has the most experience in fighting wars and the most experience in the U.S. Congress. And McCain is electable - I think he could be a winner. Hillary Clinton may be an electable candidate and I could vote for her as well. She supports the war and wants to win it - she supports regime change and voted to authorize the President to use force against Saddam Hussain. Bill Clinton thought Iraq had something to do with the war - he bombed Iraq and destroyed a soap factory and killed a camel.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Angela Mailander wrote: It does make Edg seem unhinged, but I politely suggested to Richard that investigating 9/11 as a possible inside job was a patriotic thing to do, a necessary thing to do if we want to keep our democracy, rather than a conspiracy nut case thing to do, and he never responded. 'The Real Story Behind the F-15 Stand-Down: News Analysis' By Joe Pappalardo Popular Mechanics, November 16, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/39hxqm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/157562
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Bhairitu wrote: Yup, Richard is a masochist (in case anyone hasn't figured that out by now). And you too, seem to come unhinged whenever we discuss politics.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Earth And Its People - lecture by Charlie Lutes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: I am That and That I am, and I will always be so. ~~ Lectures by Charlie Lutes http://www.maharishiphotos.com/lecture1.html Thanks for posting this. Any plans for publishing this material ? Not that I know of. There are 108 of these lectures online at the link: http://www.maharishiphotos.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Earth And Its People - lecture by Charlie Lutes
Gotta love Charlie. He was like a Billy Graham lite to the throngs of TB's (me included), with a charm and demeanor that uplifted and inspired everyone, it certainly was genuine. I always enjoyed listening to his talks and being around him even if his ideas seemed a little Urantia-ish. The main comment to myself I wonder when reading all of his lectures where he refers to the 'world today' is simply, And when has this not ever been the case? Kind of timeless factoids, not really predictive or topical, inspirational but highly generalized about man's condition since time immemorial. [One exception was when he spoke to a small group of us at MIU around 1976 and predicted that plastics were going to be the next big industry. I don't remember that ever coming true!] I'm still a sucker to read his stuff or his his audio recordings... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: The Earth And Its People - 8/14/81 When on Earth, as in the present age, the number of demonic or destructive people is rapidly increasing, as a result natural disturbances are also increasing - such as cyclones, hurricanes, too much heat, heavy snowfalls, volcanoes, tidal waves, earthquakes, etc. The numbers of people murdered, robbed and injured also are increasing. Countries where there is terrible unrest, riots, revolutions,etc. indicate that these places are heavily inhabited by such destructive people who are causing turmoil wherever they are. It is said that Mars and Saturn are impious planets and when they shine brightly in the skies it is not a good sign. It is understood that when there are constant disturbances on Earth it is a sign that the destructive evil population is increasing, and as a result, fear is generated among the good people and they do not know where to turn for protection. The only place anyone can turn for refuge is to God. If the unwanted destructive population continues to increase, the Earth will become like hell. These destructive people are not concerned with developing a trade or honorable profession in life; rather they prefer to live on welfare or steal from others, and then some deal in drugs, etc. to make a living from the misery of others. In essence, this is transferring Hell to this Earth. Destruction also runs to higher levels of life such as those who would exploit the resources of the world, pollute the rivers, lakes and oceans, and destroy the forests, etc. for their own gain, regardless of who they may injure. They would also wage war without any good reason except for personal gain. Although there is a great price to pay for unnecessarily disturbing the peace of the world, they plunge on in their destructive ways creating their own particular hell and the hell to follow this life. For one creating hell on Earth also creates his own hell in afterlife. Some on this Earth believe the power of God to be only material, and in ignorance they pit themselves against this power. They also kill and conquer people and nations in the guise of freeing the people only to plunge them into slavery. This is why Christ said, Ye are of your father the devil and his works shall ye do. Those who are on the spiritual path are seeking the light of God; God will save them. All that is needed is devotion and perseverance. Even demons, when they are active in their destructive ways, believe that their power is awesome and that God is hiding from them. Such is the nature of their delusiveness. Again, they are very much disturbed when there is a religious fervor or a spiritual wave among the people for they fear this even though they do not know why or believe this. Those of a demonic or destructive nature always believe that if they have great wealth and power this will save them from the wrath of God. They believe all on Earth to be their property. When it isn't, and in countries where they try to drive God out and suppress religion, they are never, ever successful. For a time they may appear to be successful on the surface, but below the surface they are not really successful at all. There is, however, a constant war going on between the negative forces and the positive forces for control of the Earth. The Earth, like everything else, constantly fluctuates between the three modes, or is a combination of the three modes of ignorance, passion and Goodness. However, in the present time, the emphasis is on ignorance and passion, with Goodness running a poor third. The highest mode on Earth is Goodness, while the Almighty Creator and the Absolute is pure Goodness, whereas on Earth there is no state of pure Goodness. In pure Goodness there cannot possibly be any contamination of ignorance or passion. Hence, it is pure. The vibration would not
[FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie Lutes encounters MMY
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Links to additional chapters at the end! From The Himalayas to Hollywood A Personal Account of Maharishi's Early Days By Charles F. Lutes As Told to Martin Zucker © 2006 Martin Zucker This Link: http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/chap_1.php Introduction: http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/intro.php Chapter 2: http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/chap_2.php Chapter 3: http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/chap_3.php Chapter 4: http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/chap_4.php Thanks for posting this, Mr. Mays!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Duveyoung wrote: There's millions of Arabs here already -- where's the terrorism? Well, there have been no terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11, so I guess the present plan is working. But, we need to secure our borders and send all the illegal aliens back to where they came from. In Iraq the surge is working, so we might still win the battle over there. We'll probably have to send troops into Sudan soon to stop the genocide there. So we'll need a president who has the guts to do that. The United Nations documents that hundreds of people have been killed in about 20 land and air attacks carried out by the government of Sudan and its affiliated militia in the past six months. Humanitarian workers have also been victimized. Read more: 'A Critical Moment for Darfur' Wall Street Journal, December 11, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/2mk9k4 What we don't need now is to call a retreat and give up on spreading democracy. I support regime change - I'll vote for whoever can best lead our troops to victory, but I have my doubts about Hillary Clinton: wasn't it her husband that retreated after just a single Black Hawk went down in Somalia? But Bill bombed the hell out of Serbia - go figure. A year after the U.S.-backed Ethiopian army toppled a hard-line Islamist regime in Somalia, the country has become Africa's worst humanitarian catastrophe. Full story: 'Somalia has turned into Africa's worst humanitarian catastrophe' By Shashank Bengali Kansas City Star, Wed, Dec. 12, 2007 http://www.kansascity.com/news/world/story/401368.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Oh pull the other one! Popular Mechanic is owned by Hearst whose founder coined the term yellow journalism. It is all about defending the military industrial complex. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Angela Mailander wrote: It does make Edg seem unhinged, but I politely suggested to Richard that investigating 9/11 as a possible inside job was a patriotic thing to do, a necessary thing to do if we want to keep our democracy, rather than a conspiracy nut case thing to do, and he never responded. 'The Real Story Behind the F-15 Stand-Down: News Analysis' By Joe Pappalardo Popular Mechanics, November 16, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/39hxqm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/157562
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
So, we are agreed that the U.S. is in a war. Brian Horsfield wrote: You miss the point. Wars against non nation state enemies are pretty much unwinnable since there is no definable enemy. You have to essentially kill everybody to truly declare victory. Not everybody, Brian, just the terrorists. The US has LOST every war since WWII. The U.S. has NEVER lost a single war. Rep. John Murtha Democrat from Pennsylvania, one the top war critics, stunned fellow Democrats late last week with his statement that the surge is working, even though he added that political reconciliation has been lagging. Murtha's view was backed by Rep. Norm Dicks Democrat from Washington, who also said the surge worked after he returned from Iraq. Read more: 'Reid pushes back on Iraq optimism' Politico, December 03, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/3arte2 Paul voted against the war in Iraq and against the Patriot Act showing true courage and leadership to follow the Constition rather the fear mongering promoters of war. The Patriot Act passed the Senate with 98 votes in October 2001 with a single NAY: http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/p_congress.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, we are agreed that the U.S. is in a war. Brian Horsfield wrote: You miss the point. Wars against non nation state enemies are pretty much unwinnable since there is no definable enemy. You have to essentially kill everybody to truly declare victory. Not everybody, Brian, just the terrorists. Ie all islamo fascists' You sound like Rudy Ghouliani. Please Richard - have some compassion for the million innocent victims. Watch this video - the war on terror is a contrivance to enslave America http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LvtQAQ6scfeature=related The US has LOST every war since WWII. The U.S. has NEVER lost a single war. The US has LOST EVERY WAR SINCE WWII You call Vietnam a Victory? South Korea? Rep. John Murtha Democrat from Pennsylvania, one the top war critics, stunned fellow Democrats late last week with his statement that the surge is working, even though he added that political reconciliation has been lagging. Murtha's view was backed by Rep. Norm Dicks Democrat from Washington, who also said the surge worked after he returned from Iraq. Read more: 'Reid pushes back on Iraq optimism' Politico, December 03, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/3arte2 Paul voted against the war in Iraq and against the Patriot Act showing true courage and leadership to follow the Constition rather the fear mongering promoters of war. The Patriot Act passed the Senate with 98 votes in October 2001 with a single NAY: http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/p_congress.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Brian Horsfield wrote: Popular Mechanic is owned by Hearst whose founder coined the term yellow journalism. It is all about defending the military industrial complex. A red herring is a metaphor for a diversion or distraction from an original objective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring These theories are generally not accepted as credible by political leaders, mainstream journalists, and independent researchers who have concluded that responsibility for the attacks and the resulting destruction rests solely with Al Qaeda. Source: 'September 11, 2001 attacks' Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Richard, are you a blood thirsty jingoist? (GO RON PAUL ! ! !)
Well, Edg, I've been meaning to tell you that I do enjoy your writing and the good heart of it. I don't always agree, but I do love good writing. Turq does it also as do Deltablues and Bhairitu. Good writing regardless of opinions expressed. Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right, of coursesweet truth and all that, but I reserve my right to be a thorn in the face of a briar patch. I love to use concepts at both ends of the spectrum. If I thought anyone was taking me seriously here, I'd have to reconsider this position, but who cares about my words? Hopefully those with a sense of poetry can enjoy my concoctions for what they are -- exuberance in creativity. I have posted some very nice sweet essays, and they get about one response on average. Proof that the mindset here is far more tuned into spotting error than seeing the light and praising it. So, I go with the crowd and yell my fool head off. Sue me. And, truly, what would one assign as punishment to anyone who would support the murder of whole countries, cultures and the children within them? Only God can be wise enough to begin to approach this issue, but if I saw anyone pouring gasoline on top of a child's head, I'd get physical immediately, yet 10,000 kids die of starvation everyday because of American foreign policies, and our soldiers -- real and the private army -- are now accused to have been brutal beyond measures THOUSANDS OF TIMES in Iraq. Torture R Us and taking the life of child's parent is nothing to us even though that kid will almost certainly become a terrorist. What would you do if a private army contractor gunned down your family? Do you think going to jail for the rest of your life would stop you from revenge? Get serious. You'd start making roadside bombs. When do I get to be politically active? -- at least with my harsh tone I'm conveying my turmoil. The way I see it, BushCo is going to do something big to declare martial law unless Hillary or a war-mongering Repug gets the nod. McCain, I love him for his sacrifice in Viet Nam, but this doesn't make him a good war-winner, or better yet, a peace maker. There's millions of Arabs here already -- where's the terrorism? All of them have relatives that were turned into hamburger, but our bridges still stand, our trains are not derailed, our nuke plants are not blown up, etc. etc. Call me stupid, but the Arabs in America must be saints to be daily forgiving so much and suffering such negativity in the BigMedia propaganda despite their forbearance. Outraged am I? Yep. Why aren't you? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, fuck you with a KKK flaming cross up your ass and out your mouth -- just to give you a taste of the hell you're surely destined to arrive at. This is uncool and unnecessary Edg. How can you seriously expect Richard to discuss this topic with this kind of attack? It makes you sound unhinged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Richard, It seems you're being jingoistic. Extremely so. It is appalling and disturbing. I'm going to rip you a new one, so grab your ass, and see you can stand a look into the mirror. Of the 1000 people who read this, I'm guessing 950+ will agree with this assessment of your immoral presentation. For all your education on Eastern Wisdom, you're coming-off, below, as someone who would be saying my country right or wrong and if they aren't white, kill 'em without regard. Yes? I have purposefully made the above statement way beyond what I hope you actually are resonant with, but unless you BACKTRACK BIGTIME, the above statement is rather a mild piece of scorn compared to what one should have happen as a punishment for almost any act that would emerge from the criminal mindset you're espousing. We invaded Iraq immorally, illegally, with brutal murderous intent and with stealing oil as our true reason for doing so. I find you guilty of mindfully ignoring: 1. the suffering of tens of millions of people, 2. the deaths of a million people, 3. the deaths of 4,000 US service men and women, 4. the ruination of our Bill of Rights, 5. the utter disgrace of America in the eyes of the world, 6. the possibility of WWIII, 7. the defense of doing first strike on Iran with nukes, and 8. the private armies that have been formed by BigBiz And that's just for starters. BigMedia's brainwashed masses have been forced into a mindset where 24 is considered entertainment, and righteous inquisition is a concept that's touted as one's civil duty -- see a terrorist, torture a terrorist. Only the warped personalities in the Roman Coliseum as they slavered for martyr blood could approach the low
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Coming of the New World - lecture by Charlie Lutes (c1981)
Is Charlie saying that the poor and the desperate are born, not nurtured by economic policies? Seems a pretty important question to me. do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It can be said that our world is really many worlds containing people at various levels of consciousness and behavior patterns, living within different geographical environments. So what may be truth for one level of consciousness and for one environment is probably not true for another. Some parts of the world reflect more negativity than other parts. Some parts are so negative that they are unable to embody constructive energy of expression. Also, some parts of the world will experience disastrous impacts either from human causes such as wars, etc., or from natural causes, such as earthquakes, tidal waves, fires, etc. The Earth at the present time is undergoing a cleansing of excess negativity. So, disasters of one nature or another will occur unless there are forces of creativity emerging in a strong fashion to neutralize the destructive forces. If we are in tune with God then a protective shield will surround us and keep us safe. In this world we experience just what we attract to ourselves, and this is determined by our attitude and by our devotion to God. Those who are in the process of expressing a more enlightened and positive awareness in life are attracting to themselves only creative and positive experiences. Their world holds no suffering or disaster for them - such is the nature of the world and the nature of nature itself. At the present time we live in a dual world; one open to experiencing negativity and destruction, the other open to manifesting positive creativity and peace in the world. The coming of the new age heralds many changes; some radical and some not so severe. These changes, though resisted by many, will come. They will be destructive to many, yet uplifting to others. It will be the end of the world for many, yet the beginning of a new world for many more. If we live the law, the law will support us. If we do not support the law, we will be abandoned by the self-same law. The first law of creation is the law of love. In the future there will be many souls who will not be able to incarnate on this planet, for to do so would be to expose themselves to vibrations beyond their ability to withstand. On the other hand, there are numerous higher beings who would like to incarnate upon this Earth, only the vibrations at present are too low and too gross for them, because the Earth of today does have very intense material vibrations of a low nature. The Earth of tomorrow will, however, be a vastly different heavenly Earth. That is why it will be called, Heaven on Earth. Many people feel that destruction is a fast way into the new age, but it is not. It only creates new burdens and in many cases retards our progress. The object is not to destroy the old, but rather to superimpose the new over the old. The Earth did not create the low vibrations. The humans did this. The Earth is now in the process of raising its own vibrations so that truly there will be a new heaven and a new Earth, and there will come a flood of love that will cover the Earth from pole to pole. Those coming into this Earth will be high souls, and the path to liberation will be made much easier. Because then, we will have mastered our own human nature and we will be on our way to become masters of nature and ultimately masters of all of the universe. The prophesies of the scriptures will be fulfilled and there will be a new heaven and a new Earth and a new Jerusalem (meaning spirituality) will descend upon the Earth. A new Earth of heavenly vibrations will create a new heaven and a new Jerusalem - this means spirituality will descend upon the Earth and the devil (meaning negativity and destructive forces) will be chained and cast into the bottomless pit; meaning that where love and spirituality reign negativity and hate cannot co-exist. It is the human who expresses one or the other. In the new age now upon us only our God nature will be expressed, and heaven will be on Earth for all to love and enjoy. We will now from day to day see the breakups of old patterns and the coming forth of new age patterns that will endure for two-thousand years. It will be very interesting for some and a disaster for others. ~~ Lectures by Charlie Lutes http://www.maharishiphotos.com/lecture2.html Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
Brian Horsfield wrote: You call Vietnam a Victory? South Korea? We were not defeated in Viet Nam, Brian, we were defeated in the streets of Berkley. America's involvement in Vietnam was a noble cause - the U.S signed an armistice in Paris. The North Koreans have been held at 37th parallel. The U.S. has never lost a war. 'The Vietnam War' by Mackubin T. Owens http://tinyurl.com/2wfuge 'Vietnam: The Necessary War' by Michael Lind Free Press, 2002 http://tinyurl.com/3yu5dp
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Coming of the New World - lecture by Charlie Lutes (c1981)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Charlie saying that the poor and the desperate are born, not nurtured by economic policies? Seems a pretty important question to me. I don't see anywhere in that lecture that Charlie said or even remotely suggested anything like what you just asked about, Angela. [snip]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
I make no claims to being a precise thinker. When I wrote that TM works I was referring to that study and others that show it produces measurable physiological changes that are correlated with improved health and well-being. The exaggerated claims you ascribe to me are entirely your invention. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: No it is not. If you are reduced to claiming that someone really meant something quite different from what he actually wrote, there is no possibility of any meaningful discusssion. You said the blood pressure study proved that TM works. What does that mean to you? What most people who make that claim in ffld or on this forum mean is how dare you question MMY's scientifically validated programs to create world peace, perfect health and invincibility when studies show that TM works. You may be a more precise thinker about this than most though.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Coming of the New World - lecture by Charlie Lutes (c1981)
When I read a sentence like this, Countries where there is terrible unrest, riots, revolutions, etc. indicate that these places are heavily inhabited by such destructive people who are causing turmoil wherever they are I wonder if this includes countries like the ones in the Southern Cone which were developing nicely until the U.S. destabilized them. I guess this falls under the heading of creating war (and other types of unrest) out of greed. But that is not all Charlie says. When I read sentences like these, If the unwanted destructive population continues to increase, the Earth will become like hell. These destructive people are not concerned with developing a trade or honorable profession in life; rather they prefer to live on welfare or steal from others, and then some deal in drugs, etc. to make a living from the misery of others, I wonder how big a step it takes to conclude from such writing that we ought to wipe these people out, never mind the fact that we created them in the first place through economic and political policies. do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Charlie saying that the poor and the desperate are born, not nurtured by economic policies? Seems a pretty important question to me. I don't see anywhere in that lecture that Charlie said or even remotely suggested anything like what you just asked about, Angela. [snip] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Coming of the New World - lecture by Charlie Lutes (c1981)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I read a sentence like this, Countries where there is terrible unrest, riots, revolutions, etc. indicate that these places are heavily inhabited by such destructive people who are causing turmoil wherever they are I wonder if this includes countries like the ones in the Southern Cone which were developing nicely until the U.S. destabilized them. I guess this falls under the heading of creating war (and other types of unrest) out of greed. But that is not all Charlie says. When I read sentences like these, If the unwanted destructive population continues to increase, the Earth will become like hell. These destructive people are not concerned with developing a trade or honorable profession in life; rather they prefer to live on welfare or steal from others, and then some deal in drugs, etc. to make a living from the misery of others, I wonder how big a step it takes to conclude from such writing that we ought to wipe these people out, never mind the fact that we created them in the first place through economic and political policies. You appear to have an imagination driven by your own fears, Angela. It shows up in much of what you write. Again, nowhere in the lecture does Charlie say or even remotely suggest anything you are attempting to project. do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Is Charlie saying that the poor and the desperate are born, not nurtured by economic policies? Seems a pretty important question to me. I don't see anywhere in that lecture that Charlie said or even remotely suggested anything like what you just asked about, Angela. [snip] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Horsfield wrote: Richard, are you seriously supporting the McCain doctrine for continued war? So, we are agreed that the U.S. is in a war. Then, I'm thinking of voting for the candidate who can win the war, not lose it. Ron Paul has zero experience winning any wars and apparently has no plan of how to win this one. Lol, and John McCain does ! ! !?? What a joke, a dumb grunt that got captured and has been living off that fact ever since. Dr. Paul was a doctor (ie. smart ) in the airforce. And he does have a plan. You just don't understand it it: Stop policing the world, spend the money at home for better security at ports etc. Right now, the US is open to attack due to no money to pay enough border guards, and high tech security that could be possible, to do the ambitious things the nutcase Bush thinks he can do for free. Ron Paul's plan is the only viable one. The 9/11 commission and the CIA both concluded the main facter US was attacked was because of US military bases and involvement in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. Ron Paul is the only one with a rational plan. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: GO RON PAUL ! ! !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Horsfield wrote: You call Vietnam a Victory? South Korea? We were not defeated in Viet Nam, Brian, we were defeated in the streets of Berkley. ROTFLMAO ! ! ! Get real. You lost in Vietnam. Completely defeated there. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Coming of the New World - lecture by Charlie Lutes (c1981)
This is my last post of the week, so here goes: A knowledge of history, or a question as to how certain philosophies might be misused, is not tantamount to fear. I do not have my head in the sand, and I have lived on this planet for 67 years in six different cultures with my eyes open. I also do not understand why every time something is mentioned that is not a Pollyanna view of the world as proscribed by the TMO and other religious organizations, this automatically means that someone is plagued by fear as if fear were somehow a less than honorable part of life. The key in any event would be to master it. I don't know if I would have what it takes to master fear because I have almost never experienced it. I have stood on the deck of a ship and have watched another ship go down in a storm that was threatening us as well. I was exhilarated, not afraid, and had to endure flack from others for being too cold-blooded to be afraid and to grieve for all the people who drowned--only three boys were saved later. If you see fear in my words, your are reading your own. I'm pasting an essay below which says that we have passed the point of no return in the global warming crisis. If this guy is right, and I've seen a couple of other essays that make this claim, all of us have our heads in the sand. But even this would not be enough to make me afraid. I am too old for that and have been meditating for 60 plus years. Moreover, fear is not part of my jyotish chart. In Western astrology, I'm an Aries; in Chinese astrology, I'm a Spring Dragon. We tend to be pretty fearless. I also have fearlessness in my blood. I'm a fourth generation refugee. Of course you're free to call all that a river in Egypt. do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I read a sentence like this, Countries where there is terrible unrest, riots, revolutions, etc. indicate that these places are heavily inhabited by such destructive people who are causing turmoil wherever they are I wonder if this includes countries like the ones in the Southern Cone which were developing nicely until the U.S. destabilized them. I guess this falls under the heading of creating war (and other types of unrest) out of greed. But that is not all Charlie says. When I read sentences like these, If the unwanted destructive population continues to increase, the Earth will become like hell. These destructive people are not concerned with developing a trade or honorable profession in life; rather they prefer to live on welfare or steal from others, and then some deal in drugs, etc. to make a living from the misery of others, I wonder how big a step it takes to conclude from such writing that we ought to wipe these people out, never mind the fact that we created them in the first place through economic and political policies. You appear to have an imagination driven by your own fears, Angela. It shows up in much of what you write. Again, nowhere in the lecture does Charlie say or even remotely suggest anything you are attempting to project. do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Is Charlie saying that the poor and the desperate are born, not nurtured by economic policies? Seems a pretty important question to me. I don't see anywhere in that lecture that Charlie said or even remotely suggested anything like what you just asked about, Angela. [snip] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: According to what I've read, there have been several independent studies that indicate that the practice of TM lowers blood pressure. Vaj wrote: In many ways this is just like the TM coherence scam Like I said, your comments a highly biased. Again, not my comments, they are the findings of world-class Neuroscientists. Unpublished of course. What a joke. In the 21st century only research published in respected peer- reviewed journals has any credibility. Anything else is only for early afternoon talk show hosts to gaggle over. Your extreme bigotry is shocking to the civilized world. You deny 200+ peer-reviewed published studies in respected journals, and instead tout one unpublished opinion as the real truth over all those. This is the VERY action of the anti-science freaks like GW Bush, Condi Rice, Ted Haggard, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, and Turq., boo_lives, Peter, etc that I was talking about. You loose Vaj. Research published in peer-reviewed scientific journals is the future. Get used to it. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Since there has been some discussion about research on TM, I'm posting this recent press release from the University of Kentucky. It would be hard for even the most biased observer (and we have many on this board) not to recognize the value of this. The fact is, uncomfortable though it may be for some, that TM works. Speaking as one of those biased observers :-), I can tell you that I knew that this press release was written by a TM teacher within several paragraphs. There are several simple tip-offs. Referring to TM as the Transcendental Meditation technique is the first. No one who hasn't been schooled in the proper use of this copyrighted term would ever do that; a real researcher would have just called it Trans- cendental Meditation. Another terminology tip-off is the repeated use of peer-reviewed scientific journals, a term I haven't really seen much *except* in TM-written press releases. Being in a peer- reviewed journal doesn't insure that the study is real, only that the methodology of the study passed muster among a reviewing group of scientists, based on what was sub- mitted to them. As has been shown often in tobacco industry sponsored studies, it's quite possible to LIE about one's methodology to the reviewing committee, just to get it published. The *only* thing that proves a study real scientifically is having it *repeated* by other researchers, not reviewed by other researchers. The next tip-off is the need to assert the *superiority* of TM, not just its comparative value compared to other techniques. Again, no real researcher who wasn't specifically pushing TM would have done that. A *BIG* tip-off is the admission that the entire *purpose* of this study is to rebut a report that was less than favorable to TM. WHY would any- one *but* TMers undertake such a study? Pure scientists wouldn't; they wouldn't care. There is also the giveaway term meta-analysis, which in this situation seems to mean cherry- picking the studies *we* think are relevant, and finding some way to analyze them statist- ically to slant them towards showing that TM is superior. They even *admit* that they cherry- picked the studies: includes only high quality studies on all available stress reduction interventions. WHO got to decide what was high quality and what was not, eh? Duh. The people who wanted to prove TM best, that's who. The statistician who massaged this cherry- picked set of data works for MUM. 'Nuff said. Finally, even though the cherry-picking and the data massaging were clearly done at MUM by TM personnel, the study wasn't released by MUM. WHY? Again, duh. Because it would look as if it came directly from the TM movement, which of course it did. So they found someone sym- pathetic (probably a TMer) from the University of Kentucky to publish it. Don't get me wrong -- there may BE some studies of merit among the ones cherry-picked by this MUM statistician. Some of them may even indi- cate some benefits to TM, and that's completely fine with me. But this study and this press release are as bogus pieces of pseudo-science as I've ever seen, and I cannot help but think that real researchers in the field will see it that way as well. My bet is that the only people who will be taken in by this study are those who were taken in long ago, and are trying to avoid having to admit that they *were* taken in. Hint, hint, feste. What is needed is REAL studies, done by non-TM researchers who have neither an axe to grind or a technique to sell, and whose only motivation is to find out if there is any verifiable benefit to meditation or not. Such a REAL study would not only have control groups who don't meditate, it would have other groups utilizing other forms of meditation, following exactly the same research protocols. And at the end, ALL data would be released and available to other researchers (not just cherry-picked data), and the statistical methods used would be described in detail so that other researchers could duplicate them in their own studies and see if they hold up. This is just another claim, coming from employees of an organization that has something to gain (money!) from claiming TM not only effective but superior. Only idiots would believe that the potential financial gain didn't bias their findings. I agree with all of the above but want to add this comment. In fact, the TM-blood pressure studies are the best of all the TM studies, maybe the only ones that really impress me. And what are your qualifications for saying that? ..and in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off's kind of TMmovement research published
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 2:10 PM, feste37 wrote: No it is not. If you are reduced to claiming that someone really meant something quite different from what he actually wrote, there is no possibility of any meaningful discusssion. OK, suit yourself. But that seems to be the subtext behind the often- defensive posts citing claims that TM works. No, this is the typical anti-science paranoia that you display Sal, that wants to turn what someone said into somthing else to suit their egocentric irrational agenda. Just like Dumbya, Rice, Ashcroft, and their good friend Ted Haggard, etc. -- all anti-science. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Merry Christmas!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fe11OlMiz8
