Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
on 4/26/06 7:08 PM, anon_astute_ff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? I mean if one shotguns everypost to 100 other sites, thats a poor practice. On the other hand, if an insight forms in a post on FFL, and the idea develops over a month or two, and one submits a revised hopefully more refined post on the same idea somewhere else, sometime later, where is the harm. It seems to be a good thing, IMO. I agree. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
on 4/26/06 8:14 PM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the wealth of meditation reflected on this site, possibly what, a thousand years worth or so (30 years meditation + rounding and/or sidhis equals ~one year meditation each for ~1000 members of FFL), what is the harm in any post? I estimate that I've spent 5+ years meditating since 1968. If you count sidhis, asanas, rest periods, etc., it's probably more. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/26/06 8:14 PM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the wealth of meditation reflected on this site, possibly what, a thousand years worth or so (30 years meditation + rounding and/or sidhis equals ~one year meditation each for ~1000 members of FFL), what is the harm in any post? I estimate that I've spent 5+ years meditating since 1968. If you count sidhis, asanas, rest periods, etc., it's probably more. You must be one Kentucky Fried Chitta!!! Is that five full years, 24 X 7?? (just curious, I'm a bit of a numbers freak...) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
on 5/4/06 11:03 AM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/26/06 8:14 PM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the wealth of meditation reflected on this site, possibly what, a thousand years worth or so (30 years meditation + rounding and/or sidhis equals ~one year meditation each for ~1000 members of FFL), what is the harm in any post? I estimate that I've spent 5+ years meditating since 1968. If you count sidhis, asanas, rest periods, etc., it's probably more. You must be one Kentucky Fried Chitta!!! Is that five full years, 24 X 7?? (just curious, I'm a bit of a numbers freak...) No. 5+ years if you add up all the individual meditations. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/4/06 11:44 AM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, that's what I meant- that if you add up all the 'meditation minutes' so to speak, that they are equivalent to someone meditating for 5 plus years, non-stop... Yup. At least an hour 2x/day since 1970. I'm a tough nut to crack. Until I went to the sidhis course in '77, I was only allowed to meditate 15-20 minutes each session. How in hell did you get instructions for a one hour meditation...or are you figuring in asanas and pranayama? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
on 5/4/06 1:41 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/4/06 11:44 AM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, that's what I meant- that if you add up all the 'meditation minutes' so to speak, that they are equivalent to someone meditating for 5 plus years, non-stop... Yup. At least an hour 2x/day since 1970. I'm a tough nut to crack. Until I went to the sidhis course in '77, I was only allowed to meditate 15-20 minutes each session. How in hell did you get instructions for a one hour meditation When I was initiated in July 1968, 1/2 hour was the prescribed time. Then on my TTC in the Fall of 1970, Maharishi said we could do an hour. Thereafter, I never did less than that. ...or are you figuring in asanas and pranayama? No, that's extra. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/4/06 1:41 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 5/4/06 11:44 AM, jim_flanegin at jflanegi@ wrote: right, that's what I meant- that if you add up all the 'meditation minutes' so to speak, that they are equivalent to someone meditating for 5 plus years, non-stop... Yup. At least an hour 2x/day since 1970. I'm a tough nut to crack. Until I went to the sidhis course in '77, I was only allowed to meditate 15-20 minutes each session. How in hell did you get instructions for a one hour meditation When I was initiated in July 1968, 1/2 hour was the prescribed time. Then on my TTC in the Fall of 1970, Maharishi said we could do an hour. Thereafter, I never did less than that. ...or are you figuring in asanas and pranayama? No, that's extra. Well, did it work? I mean, have you been happy all these years doing 40 minutes per meditation more than others? Or do you feel it was unnecessary? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Whatever. I think you just like to believe that I embellish because you chose to settle for a boring life. Oh, I'll readily admit to leading a boring life... But, hey, that's why you hep cats have the responsibility to those of us who live vicariously through you to be as truthful and as honest as you can in the stories that you relate to us 'cause it's all we losers have! I can recommend only that you read Road Trip Mind (http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind). There is not a word of fiction in it. Everything described in that book took place exactly as described. But you won't believe it, and that's neither my fault, nor my business. As a writer or as someone on a spiritual path, I don't have to anchor myself to the limitations of others. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
Apparently some who hang out on this list are unemployed or how else do we explain the number of posts they make everyday? Then we have the brawls which scroll off to the right Thunderbird's window when in thread mode (usually changing subject several times as they hijack the thread being to lazy to just start a new thread). Jason Spock wrote: It depends on the character of the Forum you interact with. In some mature forums, you can tell your identity. But in immature loony-bins like this one might feel squeamish about showing identity. A few Rabid dogs in this forum bit me severely. Surely can't trust anyone here and reveal one's identity. ShempMcGurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:56:54 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity could ever have any worthwhile information... I have two words for you: Deep Throat. So, I suppose you were extremely unhappy with the resignation of Richard Nixon? Because without Deep Throat's revelations it would probably never have happened... - Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apparently some who hang out on this list are unemployed or how else do we explain the number of posts they make everyday? Or are self-employed and work from home, like me, and take quick breaks by dropping over here and leaving a post or two. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apparently some who hang out on this list are unemployed or how else do we explain the number of posts they make everyday? Or are self-employed and work from home, like me, and take quick breaks by dropping over here and leaving a post or two. I'm self-employed too but often only have time to glance at posts here as I have numerous other lists and online forums to check in on too. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Apparently some who hang out on this list are unemployed or how else do we explain the number of posts they make everyday? Or are self-employed and work from home, like me, and take quick breaks by dropping over here and leaving a post or two. I'm self-employed too but often only have time to glance at posts here as I have numerous other lists and online forums to check in on too. :) Like alt.conspiracy.nutcases? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. Any ID that starts with 'anon' is *automatically* placed in the Pissant Bin, so I haven't been read- ing any of their comments. Don't find that I miss 'em. True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity could ever have any worthwhile information... I have two words for you: Deep Throat. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. Any ID that starts with 'anon' is *automatically* placed in the Pissant Bin, so I haven't been read- ing any of their comments. Don't find that I miss 'em. True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity could ever have any worthwhile information... I have two words for you: Deep Throat. The issue with regard to whether to bother to read 'anon' posters on FFL is, as far as I'm concerned, is based on past performance. If, after several months now, I realize that a particular poster has consistently wasted the time it took me to read his or her posts, then why bother to ever read them in the future? So far, with no exceptions, *all* of the people who have ever posted using one of the 'anon' accounts have fallen into the complete waste of time category, so in the Pissant Bin they go, and in the Pissant Bin they stay. It may actually be a facet of the desire to remain anonymous. If you're afraid of people in the TM movement knowing who you are when you post, how likely is it that what you say is worth reading, eh? You may notice, Shemp, that so far you haven't made it to the Pissant Bin. That's not because you don't meet the insignificant definition of 'pissant' -- most of the time you do. It's just that even though *most* of what you write is time-wasting, every so often you say something funny, and a good laugh is IMO never a waste of time. So you get the benefit of a doubt that the humorless pissants have not earned. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
On Apr 28, 2006, at 6:25 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. Any ID that starts with 'anon' is *automatically* placed in the Pissant Bin, so I haven't been read- ing any of their comments. Don't find that I miss 'em. True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity could ever have any worthwhile information... I have two words for you: Deep Throat. Who I had in mind, actually... I never took you as a Linda Lovelace fan... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. Any ID that starts with 'anon' is *automatically* placed in the Pissant Bin, so I haven't been read- ing any of their comments. Don't find that I miss 'em. True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity could ever have any worthwhile information... I have two words for you: Deep Throat. Who I had in mind, actually... So, I suppose you were extremely unhappy with the resignation of Richard Nixon? Because without Deep Throat's revelations it would probably never have happened... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
It depends on the character of the Forum you interact with. In some mature forums, you can tell your identity. But in immature loony-bins like this one might feel squeamish about showing identity. A few Rabid dogs in this forum bit me severely. Surely can't trust anyone here and reveal one's identity. ShempMcGurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:56:54 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity couldever have any worthwhile information...I have two words for you:Deep Throat. So, I suppose you were extremely unhappy with the resignation of Richard Nixon? Because without Deep Throat's revelations it would probably never have happened... Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. Any ID that starts with 'anon' is *automatically* placed in the Pissant Bin, so I haven't been read- ing any of their comments. Don't find that I miss 'em. True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity could ever have any worthwhile information... I have two words for you: Deep Throat. The issue with regard to whether to bother to read 'anon' posters on FFL is, as far as I'm concerned, is based on past performance. If, after several months now, I realize that a particular poster has consistently wasted the time it took me to read his or her posts, then why bother to ever read them in the future? So far, with no exceptions, *all* of the people who have ever posted using one of the 'anon' accounts have fallen into the complete waste of time category, so in the Pissant Bin they go, and in the Pissant Bin they stay. It may actually be a facet of the desire to remain anonymous. If you're afraid of people in the TM movement knowing who you are when you post, how likely is it that what you say is worth reading, eh? You may notice, Shemp, that so far you haven't made it to the Pissant Bin. That's not because you don't meet the insignificant definition of 'pissant' -- most of the time you do. It's just that even though *most* of what you write is time-wasting, every so often you say something funny, and a good laugh is IMO never a waste of time. So you get the benefit of a doubt that the humorless pissants have not earned. :-) Barry: I don't read all of your posts only because I don't have the time to. Of those that I read, I do so because I admire your writing skills, particularly your ability to express the unique and interesting ways in which you view the world. You are also an honest writer. What I mean by that is your writing comes off as reflecting your inner thoughts very well; you're able to put into concrete words very abstract concepts that obviously exist on a deep level of your mind. Not many people can bring those out to the surface in such a clear, concise and oh-so- entertaining way. But it is this very characteristic at honesty that sometimes gives you away. What I mean by that is your tendency to embellish. When you are in the midst of expressing one of your wonderful thoughts or points, I suggest you will fill in a gap with an embellishment of the subject at hand. It becomes too convenient for you to perhaps squeeze in a made-up tidbit instead of doing otherwise. You fall into temptation...especially when the tidbit, completely under your control, can be shaped and formed exactly as you want it to be. But it is your inherent honesty that gives you away. Because when you do embellish, it is an obvious break from your normal train of honest writing; when it happens the something is off red light goes off quite easily and it then stands out like a sore thumb. Sometimes I don't think that's such a bad thing if it's innocent enough. No harm done if a minor embellishment makes your point flow better or is amusing to the reader. But I suggest that if the item is too important that sometimes it's also going to come back and bite you on the ass. I don't for a minute suggest you do it to the extent that the protagonist in the following movie does it, but Stephen Glass -- a reporter for The New Republic -- is portrayed so perfectly in the wonderful movie Shattered Glass (based on the true incidents surrounding his life at that magazine). At first, he took a few shortcuts in his reporting that no one noticed. So he kept doing it more and doing it more frequently in each article he wrote until, soon, he was writing complete articles out of whole cloth. Ironically, I think you're lucky because unlike Stephen Glass whose editors let him get away with it, you have a Judy Stein looking over your shoulder virtually every crossed T and dotted I that you write and she won't let you get away with anything. She keeps you kosher. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Barry: I don't read all of your posts only because I don't have the time to. Of those that I read, I do so because I admire your writing skills, particularly your ability to express the unique and interesting ways in which you view the world. You are also an honest writer. What I mean by that is your writing comes off as reflecting your inner thoughts very well; you're able to put into concrete words very abstract concepts that obviously exist on a deep level of your mind. Not many people can bring those out to the surface in such a clear, concise and oh-so- entertaining way. I'd suggest that very few of Barry's concepts are all that deep, actually, when you look at them closely. Barry works very hard to make them *sound* deep, and because he has writerly skills, he often succeeds if you just read his posts superficially. They also look a lot more shallow when you realize how much inconsistency and illogic there is among these deep concepts. They don't stem from underlying principles, in other words; they are constructed opportunistically to fill the need of the moment. The need in question is usually to put somebody down and exalt himself, whatever the context. But it is this very characteristic at honesty that sometimes gives you away. What I mean by that is your tendency to embellish. When you are in the midst of expressing one of your wonderful thoughts or points, I suggest you will fill in a gap with an embellishment of the subject at hand. It becomes too convenient for you to perhaps squeeze in a made-up tidbit instead of doing otherwise. You fall into temptation...especially when the tidbit, completely under your control, can be shaped and formed exactly as you want it to be. Words are more important to Barry than reality. If he can figure out a way to say something elegantly and forcefully, it doesn't *matter* to him whether it's true or not or even whether it makes any sense logically. He constructs his world with his writing, and whatever he writes *becomes* his reality. But it is your inherent honesty that gives you away. Because when you do embellish, it is an obvious break from your normal train of honest writing; when it happens the something is off red light goes off quite easily and it then stands out like a sore thumb. I think that's the real Barry trying to get out from under all the protective defense mechanisms and phoniness. On a conscious level, he doesn't give a fig about honesty, he cares only about making himself look good at that particular moment and in that particular context. Ironically, I think you're lucky because unlike Stephen Glass whose editors let him get away with it, you have a Judy Stein looking over your shoulder virtually every crossed T and dotted I that you write and she won't let you get away with anything. She keeps you kosher. Well, let's say that I try to see to it that the Not kosher label keeps getting applied when appropriate. Staying kosher is not a priority for Barry in any case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. Any ID that starts with 'anon' is *automatically* placed in the Pissant Bin, so I haven't been read- ing any of their comments. Don't find that I miss 'em. True. No-one who finds a need to hide their identity could ever have any worthwhile information... I have two words for you: Deep Throat. Who I had in mind, actually... So, I suppose you were extremely unhappy with the resignation of Richard Nixon? Because without Deep Throat's revelations it would probably never have happened... Irony-challenged, aincha... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barry: I don't read all of your posts only because I don't have the time to. Of those that I read, I do so because I admire your writing skills, particularly your ability to express the unique and interesting ways in which you view the world. You are also an honest writer. What I mean by that is your writing comes off as reflecting your inner thoughts very well; you're able to put into concrete words very abstract concepts that obviously exist on a deep level of your mind. Not many people can bring those out to the surface in such a clear, concise and oh-so- entertaining way. But it is this very characteristic at honesty that sometimes gives you away. What I mean by that is your tendency to embellish. When you are in the midst of expressing one of your wonderful thoughts or points, I suggest you will fill in a gap with an embellishment of the subject at hand. It becomes too convenient for you to perhaps squeeze in a made-up tidbit instead of doing otherwise. You fall into temptation...especially when the tidbit, completely under your control, can be shaped and formed exactly as you want it to be. But it is your inherent honesty that gives you away. Because when you do embellish, it is an obvious break from your normal train of honest writing; when it happens the something is off red light goes off quite easily and it then stands out like a sore thumb. Sometimes I don't think that's such a bad thing if it's innocent enough. No harm done if a minor embellishment makes your point flow better or is amusing to the reader. But I suggest that if the item is too important that sometimes it's also going to come back and bite you on the ass. I don't for a minute suggest you do it to the extent that the protagonist in the following movie does it, but Stephen Glass -- a reporter for The New Republic -- is portrayed so perfectly in the wonderful movie Shattered Glass (based on the true incidents surrounding his life at that magazine). At first, he took a few shortcuts in his reporting that no one noticed. So he kept doing it more and doing it more frequently in each article he wrote until, soon, he was writing complete articles out of whole cloth. Ironically, I think you're lucky because unlike Stephen Glass whose editors let him get away with it, you have a Judy Stein looking over your shoulder virtually every crossed T and dotted I that you write and she won't let you get away with anything. She keeps you kosher. Whatever. I think you just like to believe that I embellish because you chose to settle for a boring life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Barry: I don't read all of your posts only because I don't have the time to. Of those that I read, I do so because I admire your writing skills, particularly your ability to express the unique and interesting ways in which you view the world. You are also an honest writer. What I mean by that is your writing comes off as reflecting your inner thoughts very well; you're able to put into concrete words very abstract concepts that obviously exist on a deep level of your mind. Not many people can bring those out to the surface in such a clear, concise and oh-so- entertaining way. But it is this very characteristic at honesty that sometimes gives you away. What I mean by that is your tendency to embellish. When you are in the midst of expressing one of your wonderful thoughts or points, I suggest you will fill in a gap with an embellishment of the subject at hand. It becomes too convenient for you to perhaps squeeze in a made-up tidbit instead of doing otherwise. You fall into temptation...especially when the tidbit, completely under your control, can be shaped and formed exactly as you want it to be. But it is your inherent honesty that gives you away. Because when you do embellish, it is an obvious break from your normal train of honest writing; when it happens the something is off red light goes off quite easily and it then stands out like a sore thumb. Sometimes I don't think that's such a bad thing if it's innocent enough. No harm done if a minor embellishment makes your point flow better or is amusing to the reader. But I suggest that if the item is too important that sometimes it's also going to come back and bite you on the ass. I don't for a minute suggest you do it to the extent that the protagonist in the following movie does it, but Stephen Glass -- a reporter for The New Republic -- is portrayed so perfectly in the wonderful movie Shattered Glass (based on the true incidents surrounding his life at that magazine). At first, he took a few shortcuts in his reporting that no one noticed. So he kept doing it more and doing it more frequently in each article he wrote until, soon, he was writing complete articles out of whole cloth. Ironically, I think you're lucky because unlike Stephen Glass whose editors let him get away with it, you have a Judy Stein looking over your shoulder virtually every crossed T and dotted I that you write and she won't let you get away with anything. She keeps you kosher. Whatever. I think you just like to believe that I embellish because you chose to settle for a boring life. Says Barry, embellishing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Barry: I don't read all of your posts only because I don't have the time to. Of those that I read, I do so because I admire your writing skills, particularly your ability to express the unique and interesting ways in which you view the world. You are also an honest writer. What I mean by that is your writing comes off as reflecting your inner thoughts very well; you're able to put into concrete words very abstract concepts that obviously exist on a deep level of your mind. Not many people can bring those out to the surface in such a clear, concise and oh- so- entertaining way. But it is this very characteristic at honesty that sometimes gives you away. What I mean by that is your tendency to embellish. When you are in the midst of expressing one of your wonderful thoughts or points, I suggest you will fill in a gap with an embellishment of the subject at hand. It becomes too convenient for you to perhaps squeeze in a made-up tidbit instead of doing otherwise. You fall into temptation...especially when the tidbit, completely under your control, can be shaped and formed exactly as you want it to be. But it is your inherent honesty that gives you away. Because when you do embellish, it is an obvious break from your normal train of honest writing; when it happens the something is off red light goes off quite easily and it then stands out like a sore thumb. Sometimes I don't think that's such a bad thing if it's innocent enough. No harm done if a minor embellishment makes your point flow better or is amusing to the reader. But I suggest that if the item is too important that sometimes it's also going to come back and bite you on the ass. I don't for a minute suggest you do it to the extent that the protagonist in the following movie does it, but Stephen Glass -- a reporter for The New Republic -- is portrayed so perfectly in the wonderful movie Shattered Glass (based on the true incidents surrounding his life at that magazine). At first, he took a few shortcuts in his reporting that no one noticed. So he kept doing it more and doing it more frequently in each article he wrote until, soon, he was writing complete articles out of whole cloth. Ironically, I think you're lucky because unlike Stephen Glass whose editors let him get away with it, you have a Judy Stein looking over your shoulder virtually every crossed T and dotted I that you write and she won't let you get away with anything. She keeps you kosher. Whatever. I think you just like to believe that I embellish because you chose to settle for a boring life. Oh, I'll readily admit to leading a boring life... But, hey, that's why you hep cats have the responsibility to those of us who live vicariously through you to be as truthful and as honest as you can in the stories that you relate to us 'cause it's all we losers have! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. How will any of us learn if the free flow of postings stops, or is curtailed? All of us are big enough inside and out to handle the contents of any post without imposing such restrictions. I have to admit to (for Instant Next Key reasons) not having followed all the discussion that preceded this thought of Jim's, but I do have to agree with it. Remember my provocative (intentionally so) post about FEAR? As far as I can tell, a lot of the people whom I would class as fearful of spiritual experiences 1) that they haven't had and 2) that aren't certified by their particular teacher or tradition are resentful that such things get talked about here on FFL. So they're trying to find some way to keep them from being talked about, either by trashing such posts and the posters thereof when they come up, or by creating some kind of rating system whereby *they* (who should be looked to as the arbiters of spiritual value, after all) can rate the posts and let everyone else know what is valuable and what is not. Pretty silly to watch, IMO... :-) With the wealth of meditation reflected on this site, possibly what, a thousand years worth or so (30 years meditation + rounding and/or sidhis equals ~one year meditation each for ~1000 members of FFL), what is the harm in any post? The collective balance of silence and activity in all of us will set it right, one way, or another, or another... Exactly. Everyone here is more than experienced enough to make their own decisions about what to read and what to believe. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? No, and did I say there should be one? Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. What I think is unfair is the way he characterizes dialoques going on here, in which he participated, in a onesided way, without giving references to the posts he is referring to, like I do it: I cite the posts so that everybody can look it up. Instead he promises to observe the scene, here, so that it can duely give food for Jodys blog, while everybody there could do that as well if he would just reference the posts he is talking about. My post was meant to be informative, so that you know waht is going on elsewhere. I could just have posted the urls without sarcastic comment of course. But it strikes me a bit, that the same poster, Vaj, has once tried to turn on amt posters to migrate to Ffl (again nothing invalid in itself) because of the many enlightened posters here. I mean if one shotguns everypost to 100 other sites, thats a poor practice. Sure, but that everyone can see. On the other hand, if an insight forms in a post on FFL, and the idea develops over a month or two, and one submits a revised hopefully more refined post on the same idea somewhere else, sometime later, where is the harm. It seems to be a good thing, IMO. No argument with that. He is free to do so even though the post wasn't refined, and didn't include any of the possible answers to the topic here. The first post, polemic as it may have been I didn't object to. Its more the follow up posts about the FFL scene, which he doesn't call by name, I wanted to simply inform you about. As I think he characterizes some posters here, and reports vaguely on some conversations, without giving even the slightest reference to the POV of the other side. but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2006/04/enlightenment-anonymous.html That appears to be an odd form for you (usually clear, fair and informative -- and not prone to comments on persons rather than ideas) -- imputing motives to someone else -- particularly a stranger. Why do any of us post? Is it for recognition? That seems a bit laughable, given the composition and quite small size of active posters here. Well I do think people seek recognition for their ideas. Its normal, its human. Also Vaj imputes motives to the Satsang givers and takers, and includes FFL here in this in a most generalistic way. He just had called it a group-support for co-dependents, and then goes on to give as a very specific example the type of experience-sharing going on here. Please people feel free to share your innermost experiences of higher states, you'll soon find yourself charachterized on Guruphiliac's blog. For perhaps odd reasons, the quirkiness of FFL, within me, induces thoughts to explore. I post because it allows me to work out these ideas, and occasionally, receive some good feedback and discussion -- which btw, if they change my original view, I consider it a good day. I agree with you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that's the way many advaitins (like the ones who run that list) are reacting to the piece--it's very positive: This is just the mature, sobering kind of analysis that more seekers need to be exposed to. The intersubjective and implicit contractual agreements keep the whole thing going. I know, Vaj, and I gave, unlike you urls, so that everyone can look it up himself. Is a typical comment--most from hardcore advaitins. Who is a 'hard-core' Advaitin there, and who is not, is a different topic. And that's the idea: what was lost in the translation of east to west? It'll be a long time till the west figures it all out, we're a different culture. But it's helpful to find patterns of suffering, acknowledge them and evolve. Avoid the shadow, it will just overcome you in some way. but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2006/04/enlightenment-anonymous.html That appears to be an odd form for you (usually clear, fair and informative -- and not prone to comments on persons rather than ideas) -- imputing motives to someone else -- particularly a stranger. Actually this is a common thing and has a long history with this poster. Apparently he didn't realize it had already been posted here over a month ago...or that it was not about FFL. Sorry Vaj you just got hung up on my first link which was just meant to be the introduction, your introduction as well. My real point was how you characterized the scene and people here, obviously without making any direct reference, onesided as it is. I wanted to give people here a chance to see how they or their views are characterized elsewhere, and so also have a chance of responding. (I think Guruphiliac group isn't as free as here, you have to be sort of invited or be a little bit anti Guru, that is they are selective about whom they take. Anybody though can respond on their blog.) I find it very peculiar especially as you once tried to turn people at AMT on to come here, with the argument, that this is the place where evolution is going on, because of so many highly evolved and enlightened posters. Of course you could have changed your mind To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2006/04/enlightenment-anonymous.html as he went to the gurutrashers camp http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/828 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 Not only does he cut short discussions here without proper reference, as this group is open for anyone to read, but also he plays the expert again. The reference to sidhis should not be missing, and groupleader Jody is already under the sway of another manifestor of holy ash, dispite his critics to about anyone in the spiritual field, including Ramana Maharshi, whom he discovered to be a Nazi. Writes Vaj: start= I wrote the comments based on experiences with an anonymous group of people who are all claiming to be enlightened. They are all former students of Mahesh Varma, aka Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Some of them make the wildest claims like we are living in the Unified Field- - which is interesting because none of these people can demonstrate a siddhi to prove that. They are without exception very averse to the idea of criteria or testing or recognition by their own teacher. They are their own judge and jury and witness (no pun intended :-) ). It really only scratches the surface of what was going on--I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination. I should also add that most of them are also fans of Eckhart Tolle, Gangaji, Sailor Bob, etc. I like to call them Tolle-house cookies. So sweet, but bad for your spirit (causes your Ego to gain weight). ==end== Of course Vaj is just seeking a mutual agreement club himself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Hmm, you aren't being sarcastic here? I think he is honest in one way, he is a traditionalist, and I myself have quite a few dear friends who think like him - just I think different and am more open to the possibiltity of immediate enlightenment,and think its traditional. What really took me was perhaps this line: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 It really only scratches the surface of what was going on--I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination. Obviously talking about FFL, without giving references To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
No, I was not being sarcastic. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Hmm, you aren't being sarcastic here? I think he is honest in one way, he is a traditionalist, and I myself have quite a few dear friends who think like him - just I think different and am more open to the possibiltity of immediate enlightenment,and think its traditional. What really took me was perhaps this line: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 It really only scratches the surface of what was going on-- I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination. Obviously talking about FFL, without giving references To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? No, and did I say there should be one? Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. What I think is unfair is the way he characterizes dialoques going on here, in which he participated, in a onesided way, without giving references to the posts he is referring to, like I do it: I cite the posts so that everybody can look it up. Instead he promises to observe the scene, here, so that it can duely give food for Jodys blog, while everybody there could do that as well if he would just reference the posts he is talking about. My post was meant to be informative, so that you know waht is going on elsewhere. I could just have posted the urls without sarcastic comment of course. But then he wouldn't have been able to feel so goddamned superior to Vaj. :-) I've made an exception to the Pissant Bin Rule and actually read one of Michael's (t3rinity's) posts today, because it seemed from the Subject line that he was on one of his Somebody Said Something I Don't Like About A Teacher Or Tradition I Don't Like rants, trying to reform FFL again, to make it into what *he* thinks a spiritual forum should be like. He was. Saints preserve us from such pissants... :-) But it strikes me a bit, that the same poster, Vaj, has once tried to turn on amt posters to migrate to Ffl (again nothing invalid in itself) because of the many enlightened posters here. I'm pretty certain Vaj never said anything of the sort, nor did I. Although I now regret having done so, I once mentioned that I thought the level of conversation over here was much higher than on alt.m.t. That was true, until a bunch of alt.m.t.ers moved over. :-) For the record, I don't consider *anyone* on the planet enlightened. I think some people have had more experiences than others, and because I'm more interested in experience than in dry, dusty theory, I like hearing about their experiences. But that's all I consider them...experiences. Those posters who seem never to have had any, and post only what their teachers have told them and what they've read in some text somewhere, are IMO as boring on Fairfield Life as they would be on any other forum. Give me real experience any day. snip boring rant to Well I do think people seek recognition for their ideas. Its normal, its human. In that case, you are very, very human indeed. :-) I hereby consign you back to the Pissant Bin, and will go back to reading the posts of those who are grown up enough to *not* be so fuckin' needy as to need recognition for their ideas. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? No, and did I say there should be one? Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. What I think is unfair is the way he characterizes dialoques going on here, in which he participated, in a onesided way, without giving references to the posts he is referring to, like I do it: I cite the posts so that everybody can look it up. Instead he promises to observe the scene, here, so that it can duely give food for Jodys blog, while everybody there could do that as well if he would just reference the posts he is talking about. My post was meant to be informative, so that you know waht is going on elsewhere. I could just have posted the urls without sarcastic comment of course. But then he wouldn't have been able to feel so goddamned superior to Vaj. :-) I've made an exception to the Pissant Bin Rule and actually read one of Michael's (t3rinity's) posts today, because it seemed from the Subject line that he was on one of his Somebody Said Something I Don't Like About A Teacher Or Tradition I Like rants. He was. Saints preserve us from such pissants... :-) But it strikes me a bit, that the same poster, Vaj, has once tried to turn on amt posters to migrate to Ffl (again nothing invalid in itself) because of the many enlightened posters here. I'm pretty certain Vaj never said anything of the sort, nor did I. Although I now regret having done so, I once mentioned that I thought the level of conversation over here was much higher than on alt.m.t. That was true, until a bunch of alt.m.t.ers moved over. :-) For the record, I don't consider *anyone* on the planet enlightened. I think some people have had more experiences than others, and because I'm more interested in experience than in dry, dusty theory, I like hearing about their experiences. But that's all I consider them...experiences. Those posters who seem never to have had any, and post only what their teachers have told them and what they've read in some text somewhere, are IMO as boring on Fairfield Life as they would be on any other forum. Give me real experience any day. snip boring rant to Well I do think people seek recognition for their ideas. Its normal, its human. In that case, you are very, very human indeed. :-) I hereby consign you back to the Pissant Bin, and will go back to reading the posts of those who are grown up enough to *not* be so fuckin' needy as to need recognition for their ideas. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But it strikes me a bit, that the same poster, Vaj, has once tried to turn on amt posters to migrate to Ffl (again nothing invalid in itself) because of the many enlightened posters here. Just to back this up a bit, this is one of the posts of Vaj inviting Judy to FFL: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/32da875cae024b81?hl=en On 2005-05-20 13:50:39 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Vaj. wrote: snip Since you are obviously a member there, you should post it there Judy. Duh. You're afraid even of having me do that, since you've now deleted your post. Actually, I would enjoy your company on FFL, and it is a much more evolved setting. Come to where the evolution is, can't you feel the charm? ;-) I am not sure, if he referenced them as enlightened (posters here), I seem to recall he did, but that there were more TM teachers here than at amt and that they were more evolved was definitely what he said. Just for curiosities sake. Of course everybody is free to change his mind. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:21 AM, t3rinity wrote: Actually this is a common thing and has a long history with this poster. Apparently he didn't realize it had already been posted here over a month ago...or that it was not about FFL. Sorry Vaj you just got hung up on my first link which was just meant to be the introduction, your introduction as well. My real point was how you characterized the scene and people here, obviously without making any direct reference, onesided as it is. I wanted to give people here a chance to see how they or their views are characterized elsewhere, and so also have a chance of responding. Unfortunately, as is typical of your posts, it's an outright lie masquerading as an expose. The post did *not* refer to FFL. Now that you mention it though, I may post something on FFL. Thanks for the idea! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
On Apr 27, 2006, at 5:08 AM, t3rinity wrote:I think he is honest in one way,he is a traditionalist, and I myself have quite a few dear friends whothink like him - just I think different and am more open to thepossibiltity of immediate enlightenment,and think its traditional.What really took me was perhaps this line: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 It really only scratches the surface of what was going on--I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination.Obviously talking about FFL, without giving referencesNo, once again this is another lie, it does NOT refer to FFL. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: But it strikes me a bit, that the same poster, Vaj, has once tried to turn on amt posters to migrate to Ffl (again nothing invalid in itself) because of the many enlightened posters here. Just to back this up a bit, this is one of the posts of Vaj inviting Judy to FFL: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/ 32da875cae024b81?hl=en On 2005-05-20 13:50:39 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Vaj. wrote: snip Since you are obviously a member there, you should post it there Judy. Duh. You're afraid even of having me do that, since you've now deleted your post. Actually, I would enjoy your company on FFL, and it is a much more evolved setting. Come to where the evolution is, can't you feel the charm? ;-) I am not sure, if he referenced them as enlightened (posters here), I seem to recall he did, but that there were more TM teachers here than at amt and that they were more evolved was definitely what he said. Just for curiosities sake. Of course everybody is free to change his mind. And don't you have anything better to do than cross-post someone elses messages? Very childish and vindictive if you ask me. Maybe you should look inwards at your Self rather than lashing out at others like a hurt child with an internet account. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: But it strikes me a bit, that the same poster, Vaj, has once tried to turn on amt posters to migrate to Ffl (again nothing invalid in itself) because of the many enlightened posters here. Just to back this up a bit, this is one of the posts of Vaj inviting Judy to FFL: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/ 32da875cae024b81?hl=en On 2005-05-20 13:50:39 -0400, jst...@ said: Vaj. wrote: snip Since you are obviously a member there, you should post it there Judy. Duh. You're afraid even of having me do that, since you've now deleted your post. Actually, I would enjoy your company on FFL, and it is a much more evolved setting. Come to where the evolution is, can't you feel the charm? ;-) I am not sure, if he referenced them as enlightened (posters here), I seem to recall he did, but that there were more TM teachers here than at amt and that they were more evolved was definitely what he said. Just for curiosities sake. Of course everybody is free to change his mind. And don't you have anything better to do than cross-post someone elses messages? Perhaps you missed Barry's post claiming that Vaj had never said anything of the sort. That's what Trinity was responding to, you see. On the other hand, Trinity has it a bit wrong. Vaj wasn't inviting me to FFL; I was already there. I had asked Vaj to repost on alt.m.t, or allow me to repost, a post he'd made on FFL attempting to demonstrate from the checking notes that TM involved effort. Vaj went ballistic at the very idea. Above he's suggesting that I repost his FFL post *on FFL*. But that suggestion was disingenuous in the extreme, because immediately after I'd made my request on alt.m.t, he deleted his own FFL post that I was referring to. Very childish and vindictive if you ask me. Maybe you should look inwards at your Self rather than lashing out at others like a hurt child with an internet account. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't you have anything better to do than cross-post someone elses messages? Not at the moment. ;-) Very childish and vindictive if you ask me. I happend to come across the posts at Guruphiliac. As it seemed clear to me that he was talking about things at FFL, I posted it here, not in order to get after Vaj. The other post was something I was involved at the time at AMT, and has been mentioned by Judy and others here several times, and yes, I wanted to see if I can locate it. Maybe you should look inwards at your Self rather than lashing out at others like a hurt child with an internet account. Its always good to look at the Self, otherwise, if you think so ... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps you missed Barry's post claiming that Vaj had never said anything of the sort. That's what Trinity was responding to, you see. Actually yes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: And don't you have anything better to do than cross-post someone elses messages? Not at the moment. ;-) Very childish and vindictive if you ask me. I happend to come across the posts at Guruphiliac. As it seemed clear to me that he was talking about things at FFL My understanding is that Vaj was referring to satsang gatherings *in Fairfield*, the town--not to FFL, the Yahoo forum. , I posted it here, not in order to get after Vaj. The other post was something I was involved at the time at AMT, and has been mentioned by Judy and others here several times, and yes, I wanted to see if I can locate it. Maybe you should look inwards at your Self rather than lashing out at others like a hurt child with an internet account. Its always good to look at the Self, otherwise, if you think so ... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 5:08 AM, t3rinity wrote: I think he is honest in one way, he is a traditionalist, and I myself have quite a few dear friends who think like him - just I think different and am more open to the possibiltity of immediate enlightenment,and think its traditional. What really took me was perhaps this line: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 It really only scratches the surface of what was going on--I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination. Obviously talking about FFL, without giving references No, once again this is another lie, it does NOT refer to FFL. Sorry then, I was under the impression, especially after the dialoque between Jim and Tom, and the occasional reference that FFL is a Satsang here by some. I am definitely not going to argue with you about what you had meant. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding is that Vaj was referring to satsang gatherings *in Fairfield*, the town--not to FFL, the Yahoo forum. I see. But does he live there, has he been to Satsangs there, or does he just know of them through FFL? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My understanding is that Vaj was referring to satsang gatherings *in Fairfield*, the town--not to FFL, the Yahoo forum. I see. But does he live there, has he been to Satsangs there, He claims to have been to the satsangs there, over the past year, in fact. That's in the Guruphiliac post you referenced. Whether that means he lives in Fairfield or makes lots of trips to Fairfield to observe the satsangs, I have no idea. or does he just know of them through FFL? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:21 AM, t3rinity wrote: Actually this is a common thing and has a long history with this poster. Apparently he didn't realize it had already been posted here over a month ago...or that it was not about FFL. Sorry Vaj you just got hung up on my first link which was just meant to be the introduction, your introduction as well. My real point was how you characterized the scene and people here, obviously without making any direct reference, onesided as it is. I wanted to give people here a chance to see how they or their views are characterized elsewhere, and so also have a chance of responding. Unfortunately, as is typical of your posts, it's an outright lie I'd be interested to see you document that Trinity typically tells outright lies in his posts. I've never known him to lie, here or on alt.m.t (unlike you). That doesn't mean he never makes the occasional *mistake*, as we all do. (Or perhaps you never have?) I can certainly see why he thought your posts were about FFL rather than Fairfield. There has indeed been discussion here of FFL being a type of satsang. Indeed, there was an exchange here just in the past few days about the phenomenon of pointing that you described in your post taking place on this forum. You also went on at length, quite nastily, about folks claiming to be enlightened and describing their experiences, which also takes place here on a regular basis, as do your expressions of skepticism (e.g., concerning dharma-mega-samadhi (sp?). In your post that Trinity referenced, I don't believe there was any indication that you had been *physically* present at the Fairfield satsangs. So, as noted, it's easy to understand how Trinity could have made that error. And in any case, a number of the folks you were critiquing in that post also post here and have described the Fairfield satsangs and their benefits a number of times. You could almost have written your posts *without* ever having attended a Fairfield satsang, just from the participants' descriptions of them, and from what goes on here. masquerading as an expose. The post did *not* refer to FFL. Now that you mention it though, I may post something on FFL. Thanks for the idea! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My understanding is that Vaj was referring to satsang gatherings *in Fairfield*, the town--not to FFL, the Yahoo forum. I see. But does he live there, has he been to Satsangs there, He claims to have been to the satsangs there, over the past year, in fact. That's in the Guruphiliac post you referenced. Whether that means he lives in Fairfield or makes lots of trips to Fairfield to observe the satsangs, I have no idea. The Fairfield satsang group is connected to a phone bridge, and Vaj has the number. He's been asked if this is the group he's talking about, but he won't say. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My understanding is that Vaj was referring to satsang gatherings *in Fairfield*, the town--not to FFL, the Yahoo forum. I see. But does he live there, has he been to Satsangs there, He claims to have been to the satsangs there, over the past year, in fact. That's in the Guruphiliac post you referenced. Yes, but that was in the post here as well, there's no mention of Fairfield, only in the follow up posts, he mentions an 'anonymous group' of 'former students of Mahesh', which simply remind me of the discussions here. But never mind, I'll leave it at that, I'm not really involved; I thought it would be of concern to some people here. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? No, and did I say there should be one? Well, you were not exactly complimenting Vaj for cross-posting. You were not saying, Hey, our own Vaj got a well-recieved post published in a well-read blog, kudos to Vaj.. You appeared to be chastizing him for posting similiar material in another forum, and imputing odd motives for doing so. My line, Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? was a rhetorical question. Sort of an assumed shorthand for Is crossposting that bad? Should there be there a ban against selective cross-posting here? I will try to be more literal in my responses in the future so that you do not infer that I am such a dullard as to be thinking that you said Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? when a second grader can see that you did not. Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. Again, you are on the slippery slope of imputing motives. As Dr. Pete has said (though not always practiced), no one can tell what the inner state or motives of another are. Some feel that those who impute motives often are telling us what they would do in such a situation, and chastizing poster for the imputed motivations they fear in themselves. Why, in your view, the naming a particular satsang was important in the context of his post, to that audience, boggles my mind. He was making an admited limited observation about one satsang, and hypothesied an interesting dynamic. What relevance is it whether it was abc satsang, or xyz satsang, none of which most readers of the blog would be familiar with. What I think is unfair is the way he characterizes dialoques going on here, I think you are inncorrect. I don't believe his observations were about FFL. in which he participated, in a onesided way, without giving references to the posts he is referring to, like I do it: I cite the posts so that everybody can look it up. Instead he promises to observe the scene, here, Where in God's name did he promise to observe FFL? so that it can duely give food for Jodys blog, while everybody there could do that as well if he would just reference the posts he is talking about. My post was meant to be informative, so that you know waht is going on elsewhere. Is your issue that you personally feel slighted by Vaj's post, and that you personally feel diminished in the eyes of the readers of the blog, because you were slighted and not able to have your personal case presented to the blog? If so, I am amazed. Such would be quite silly and refelctive of a very tender and weak ego I would guess -- which is not what I have found reflected in your prior posts. What vaj posted was an interesting hypothesis of satsang dynamics -- that may or may not be relevant for all, many or any other satsangs. On the other hand, if an insight forms in a post on FFL, and the idea develops over a month or two, and one submits a revised hopefully more refined post on the same idea somewhere else, sometime later, where is the harm. It seems to be a good thing, IMO. No argument with that. He is free to do so even though the post wasn't refined, and didn't include any of the possible answers to the topic here. If he did not feel the answers to the topic posted previously here as useful, why should he possibly feel obligated to include them in a post to a seperate blog, about a seperate satsang? Your logic is mind-boggling on this point. The first post, polemic as it may have been I didn't object to. Its more the follow up posts about the FFL scene, which he doesn't call by name, I wanted to simply inform you about. As I think he characterizes some posters here, and reports vaguely on some conversations, without giving even the slightest reference to the POV of the other side. I do not follow your assertions at all. What FFL posts and their posters did he characterize and their conversations. I am totally missing that. but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success And you feel his motivation is recognition? Can we infer that therefore your motivation for posting to FFL is recognition? If not, why do you impute that motivation to Vaj? Well I do think people seek recognition for their ideas. Its normal, its human. Then why are you dissing Vaj for doing so? Also Vaj imputes motives to the Satsang givers and takers, I read it as a generalized, preliminary hypothesis based on limited observation -- not comments about specific named individual. There is quite a difference IMO. and then
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: snip Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. Again, you are on the slippery slope of imputing motives. As Dr. Pete has said (though not always practiced), no one can tell what the inner state or motives of another are. Nobody can know, obviously, *for sure*. But one can often make a damn good guess based on observation of past behavior and knowledge of a person's perspective. To suggest we should never impute motives because we can't know for sure is kind of absurd. If we spoke only of things we were absolutely sure of, we'd be left with very little to talk about. Some feel that those who impute motives often are telling us what they would do in such a situation, and chastizing poster for the imputed motivations they fear in themselves. This is one of those facile generalizations that folks tend to take as a given because it sounds so learned. In my observation, those who propose it often do so after someone has imputed a motive to them that they don't find flattering (or, as in this case, as a club to beat someone up with when they have little of substance to say). Why, in your view, the naming a particular satsang was important in the context of his post, to that audience, boggles my mind. He was making an admited limited observation about one satsang, and hypothesied an interesting dynamic. What relevance is it whether it was abc satsang, or xyz satsang, none of which most readers of the blog would be familiar with. He was asked by another participant which satsang it was, and he was only too happy to respond. Not to impute motives or anything, but it seemed to me he was *hoping* someone would ask but knew it wouldn't look good for him to identify it from the start. What I think is unfair is the way he characterizes dialoques going on here, I think you are inncorrect. I don't believe his observations were about FFL. According to Vaj, they weren't, but it's easy to see how Trinity could have had they impression they were. in which he participated, in a onesided way, without giving references to the posts he is referring to, like I do it: I cite the posts so that everybody can look it up. Instead he promises to observe the scene, here, Where in God's name did he promise to observe FFL? You just noted that Trinity was mistaken to think the posts were about FFL. Knowing that he was in error, why are you now expressing astonishment at a comment that is obviously based on that error? Vaj did promise to observe the gatherings that he was talking about. Trinity thought, mistakenly, they were about FFL, hence his comment above. so that it can duely give food for Jodys blog, while everybody there could do that as well if he would just reference the posts he is talking about. My post was meant to be informative, so that you know waht is going on elsewhere. Is your issue that you personally feel slighted by Vaj's post, and that you personally feel diminished in the eyes of the readers of the blog, because you were slighted and not able to have your personal case presented to the blog? If so, I am amazed. snip If he did not feel the answers to the topic posted previously here as useful, why should he possibly feel obligated to include them in a post to a seperate blog, about a seperate satsang? Your logic is mind-boggling on this point. His logic is entirely sound, given his error (which you have already noted, so you can't be unaware of it) as to which gathering the posts were about. The first post, polemic as it may have been I didn't object to. Its more the follow up posts about the FFL scene, which he doesn't call by name, I wanted to simply inform you about. As I think he characterizes some posters here, and reports vaguely on some conversations, without giving even the slightest reference to the POV of the other side. I do not follow your assertions at all. What FFL posts and their posters did he characterize and their conversations. I am totally missing that. Several of the participants in the satsangs in Fairfield also post here and have described them extensively. So even though Trinity was wrong in assuming Vaj's posts were about FFL, he happens to be correct. but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success And you feel his motivation is recognition? Can we infer that therefore your motivation for posting to FFL is recognition? If not, why do you impute that motivation to Vaj? Vaj obviously seeks recognition for being a learned expert on various enlightenment traditions and for mature, sobering analysis of those he doesn't like. I'll impute another motive: In my observation, Vaj participates
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: snip Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. Again, you are on the slippery slope of imputing motives. As Dr. Pete has said (though not always practiced), no one can tell what the inner state or motives of another are. Nobody can know, obviously, *for sure*. But one can often make a damn good guess based on observation of past behavior and knowledge of a person's perspective. To suggest we should never impute motives because we can't know for sure is kind of absurd. I am suggesting that imputing motives not very interesting or productive -- in terms of advancing ideas and the discussion. That its also is pretty iffy -- and often tells us more about the motives-outer than the original motivee. When motives are imputed, many get diverted off the ideas of the discussion and start explaining why the stated motives are not their motives and -- btw -- why the motives-outer is such a dumb-ass for saying so. Whoa boy, then we really have a GREAT dynamic set up for discussing ideas. Some feel that those who impute motives often are telling us what they would do in such a situation, and chastizing poster for the imputed motivations they fear in themselves. This is one of those facile generalizations that folks tend to take as a given because it sounds so learned. I am not trying to sound learned. Its my speculation based on observations of many posts. I am sorry that you personally feel my observations are facile. On this, I guess we will disagree. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, and did I say there should be one? Well, you were not exactly complimenting Vaj for cross-posting. You were not saying, Hey, our own Vaj got a well-recieved post published in a well-read blog, kudos to Vaj.. You appeared to be chastizing him for posting similiar material in another forum, and imputing odd motives for doing so. As I already told you, the first url wasn't so much my concern, and I wouldn't have cared to inform anybody about this. What I wanted people to know, was the other two Urls were he mentions 'an anonymous group' of 'former mahesh students'. So thats it! Thats all from my side. I took a cynical tone, and you may complain about it,okay no problem. Obviously I thought this to refer to things going on here, as for sure, there are several Satsang goers here at the forum, input here has more than one time be called Satsang, and we were talking about the very topics he mentioned, like the need to prove one's enlightenment, as he said, those people are averse to it, or the exhibition of sdhis as proof thereof. In any case, if his comments were not directly reflecting discussions here, there is still a number of people here involved in them, so that this is a relevent info to them. Of course my 'judgements' were made under the impression that he was directly commenting on FFL, nevertheless in part that may have been. My line, Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? was a rhetorical question. Sort of an assumed shorthand for Is crossposting that bad? Should there be there a ban against selective cross-posting here? I will try to be more literal in my responses in the future so that you do not infer that I am such a dullard as to be thinking that you said Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? when a second grader can see that you did not. No need to be more literal, but it served my point that the whole thing is not about cross-posting. Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. Again, you are on the slippery slope of imputing motives. As Dr. Pete has said (though not always practiced), no one can tell what the inner state or motives of another are. Some feel that those who impute motives often are telling us what they would do in such a situation, and chastizing poster for the imputed motivations they fear in themselves. Maybe Mr Psychologist. This discussion environment is not such sterile, that polemics or sarcasm are banned, Vajs piece, that you defend is proof thereof. Yet this was not what the post was about. Why, in your view, the naming a particular satsang was important in the context of his post, to that audience, boggles my mind. He was making an admited limited observation about one satsang, and hypothesied an interesting dynamic. What relevance is it whether it was abc satsang, or xyz satsang, none of which most readers of the blog would be familiar with. If it would have been about an open discussion group like FFL it would have been. I didn't yet know about the phone Satsang, but if you insinuate things, like he mentions this anonymous group, and offers to rveal more details and research into it, it would be just right to name things properly. What I think is unfair is the way he characterizes dialoques going on here, I think you are inncorrect. I don't believe his observations were about FFL. Well, that was a misunderstanding. Yet lines like: ..which is interesting because none of these people can demonstrate a siddhi to prove that. They are without exception very averse to the idea of criteria or testing or recognition by their own teacher. clearly reflect recent discussions here. in which he participated, in a onesided way, without giving references to the posts he is referring to, like I do it: I cite the posts so that everybody can look it up. Instead he promises to observe the scene, here, Where in God's name did he promise to observe FFL? so that it can duely give food for Jodys blog, while everybody there could do that as well if he would just reference the posts he is talking about. My post was meant to be informative, so that you know waht is going on elsewhere. Is your issue that you personally feel slighted by Vaj's post, and that you personally feel diminished in the eyes of the readers of the blog, because you were slighted and not able to have your personal case presented to the blog? No need to get personal, Anon. I am not here among the Satsang goers, nor am I a claimant to enlightenment. If so, I am amazed. Such would be quite silly and refelctive of a very tender and weak ego I would guess -- which is not what I have found reflected in your prior posts. Now you are into analyzing motives. It seems to me that you aren't against crossposting. So your
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: The Fairfield satsang group is connected to a phone bridge, and Vaj has the number. He's been asked if this is the group he's talking about, but he won't say. And in the Guruphiliac link that people are pissing and moaning about, right there in print it says, ...after observing a particular satsang's socio- psychodynamics in the U.K. recently. Interestingly, though, it doesn't say that in Vaj's posts either to the blog or to the Yahoo groups. Either the blogger was mistaken in his (her?) This particular Jody is a guy. introduction to Vaj's blog post, or Vaj was willing to share with him/her what he refuses to tell the participants in the Yahoo groups. The UK reference does pique my curiosity a bit. For reference, Vaj's observations were posted to FFL back in March: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/89488 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am suggesting that imputing motives not very interesting or productive -- in terms of advancing ideas and the discussion. That its also is pretty iffy -- and often tells us more about the motives-outer than the original motivee. When motives are imputed, many get diverted off the ideas of the discussion and start explaining why the stated motives are not their motives and -- btw -- why the motives-outer is such a dumb-ass for saying so. Whoa boy, then we really have a GREAT dynamic set up for discussing ideas. Like right now ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: snip Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. Again, you are on the slippery slope of imputing motives. As Dr. Pete has said (though not always practiced), no one can tell what the inner state or motives of another are. Nobody can know, obviously, *for sure*. But one can often make a damn good guess based on observation of past behavior and knowledge of a person's perspective. To suggest we should never impute motives because we can't know for sure is kind of absurd. I am suggesting that imputing motives not very interesting or productive -- in terms of advancing ideas and the discussion. That its also is pretty iffy -- and often tells us more about the motives-outer than the original motivee. When motives are imputed, many get diverted off the ideas of the discussion and start explaining why the stated motives are not their motives and -- btw -- why the motives-outer is such a dumb-ass for saying so. You mean, like you just did to Trinity? Whoa boy, then we really have a GREAT dynamic set up for discussing ideas. I agree, sometimes such a discussion can get sidetracked when it focuses solely on motives. On the other hand, in my observation the nature of a person's motives can be quite revealing as to why they hold particular positions. Some feel that those who impute motives often are telling us what they would do in such a situation, and chastizing poster for the imputed motivations they fear in themselves. This is one of those facile generalizations that folks tend to take as a given because it sounds so learned. I am not trying to sound learned. Its my speculation based on observations of many posts. I am sorry that you personally feel my observations are facile. On this, I guess we will disagree. Oh, I could have sworn you said Some feel that... as a preface to what you now say is your personal speculation based on observations of many posts. Obviously I've heard others suggest that people impute motivations they fear in themselves (on this very forum, in fact, but elsewhere as well). They're referring to the phenomenon known as projection. If I had known your some people was just you, I would have phrased my comment differently. As it was, I was not criticizing you but suggesting that you might want to think more deeply about the applicability of the generalization you had (as I thought) heard elsewhere and accepted as a given because it sounded learned *to you*. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: And that's the way many advaitins (like the ones who run that list) are reacting to the piece--it's very positive: This is just the mature, sobering kind of analysis that more seekers need to be exposed to. The intersubjective and implicit contractual agreements keep the whole thing going. I know, Vaj, and I gave, unlike you urls, so that everyone can look it up himself. Is a typical comment--most from hardcore advaitins. Who is a 'hard-core' Advaitin there, and who is not, is a different topic. And that's the idea: what was lost in the translation of east to west? It'll be a long time till the west figures it all out, we're a different culture. But it's helpful to find patterns of suffering, acknowledge them and evolve. Avoid the shadow, it will just overcome you in some way. but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2006/04/enlightenment- anonymous.html That appears to be an odd form for you (usually clear, fair and informative -- and not prone to comments on persons rather than ideas) -- imputing motives to someone else -- particularly a stranger. Actually this is a common thing and has a long history with this poster. Apparently he didn't realize it had already been posted here over a month ago...or that it was not about FFL. Sorry Vaj you just got hung up on my first link which was just meant to be the introduction, your introduction as well. My real point was how you characterized the scene and people here, obviously without making any direct reference, onesided as it is. I wanted to give people here a chance to see how they or their views are characterized elsewhere, and so also have a chance of responding. (I think Guruphiliac group isn't as free as here, you have to be sort of invited or be a little bit anti Guru, that is they are selective about whom they take. snip I visited the guruphil site once and felt that they were kind of lost in the whole expose thing- like that _expression_, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail...it may work for some, but not my cuppa joe... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: The Fairfield satsang group is connected to a phone bridge, and Vaj has the number. He's been asked if this is the group he's talking about, but he won't say. And in the Guruphiliac link that people are pissing and moaning about, right there in print it says, ...after observing a particular satsang's socio- psychodynamics in the U.K. recently. Interestingly, though, it doesn't say that in Vaj's posts either to the blog or to the Yahoo groups. Either the blogger was mistaken in his (her?) This particular Jody is a guy. introduction to Vaj's blog post, or Vaj was willing to share with him/her what he refuses to tell the participants in the Yahoo groups. The UK reference does pique my curiosity a bit. For reference, Vaj's observations were posted to FFL back in March: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/89488 Ah, that's an interesting thread to revisit. A couple of extracts. First, when asked whether the group he was describing was the one in Fairfield, Vaj responded: Given the very public nature of FFL, and the repercussions common here, it's probably best to keep specifics private. Which strikes me as a very thinly disguised Yes. And also as a possible basis for Vaj having told Jody of Guruphiliac that it was a U.K. group... It clearly was a group that included TMers or former TMers, since Vaj said in one of his follow-ups: One disconcerting thing that was obvious very soon and persisted throughout these sessions was the almost absolute infrequency with which descriptions ever strayed outside of either established TM- speak or advaito-speak. It was almost absolutely a closed loop: no freshness or newness. Although it seemed as if newness and freshness could be contrived, it was unconvincing compared to the freshness of the natural state. Much more interesting than any of this, though, was Jim Flanegin's response to the original post (note that Jim initially assumed Vaj was referring to FFL, just as Trinity did): --- Hi Vaj, and thanks for your comments and perspective on collective satsanging here on FFL (I am assuming this is the group you refer to and have been observing...). I can certainly see from one POV how a group of awakened individuals could appear to have some silent codependent agreement with one another, driven by ego satisfaction. And how from this same POV, there is no argument and little criticism within the group because this would fracture the codependent nature of it. On the other hand, from another POV, I can see the enjoyment of a group of awakened individuals sharing perspectives on a state of ultimate freedom. With no consequences to other observers, one way or another- no $$ requested, or follow up meetings advertised... Because the same event is observed and experienced differently according to our consciousness, I cannot say that everyone should experience this group of awakened individuals in the same way. However, a couple of key points about this discussion: 1. determination of awakening, or not, of another is something sensed on a feeling level. Proclamations do no good, unless the person is walking the walk so to speak. Unfortunately it seems that the ones best able to see another's awakening are those who are awake themselves... 2. the challenging of awakened states is helpful to a point. However to ceaselessly challenge, disagree and insult those who state that they are awakened can be harmful to observers of this dialogue. It does no harm to the awakened person, for obvious reasons. But it is not a good thing in my opinion to in effect broadcast a message that awakening is not possible for the typical seeker, unless an endless and often nebulous set of conditions are met first. Awakening is not something easily established. It takes much dedication, devotion, faith, strength, and discrimination for anyone who truly wants to reach that goal. To state regularly as some here have done, that such an experience can never be established by the tools many of have at our disposal (TM and TM-Sidhis), is to me a disservice to those whose ardently seek to have their deepest desires fulfilled. Seeking is a normal and often difficult part of the process of awakening. As we work on one area and the next, creating gradually and permanenently our awakened selves, it is helpful to keep in our minds and hearts that the goal will be reached. And not through any other means than alternating meditation with activity. Thank you. -- This is a thoughtful and potentially useful counterpoint to Vaj's analysis. I wonder whether Vaj considered posting it to the Guruphiliac blog and
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I visited the guruphil site once and felt that they were kind of lost in the whole expose thing- like that _expression_, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail...it may work for some, but not my cuppa joe... For what it's worth, I'd never heard of the group before today. Jody's website, yes, but not the discussion group. So I went there, looked around, and came to pretty much the same impression you did. Not nearly enough fun being had, far too much self being taken far too seriously. Sorta like the group had a big highway cop waving and saying, Nothing to see here, folks...move along. :-) FFL is a lot healthier, I think. You've got people here who can diss TM and the TMO one minute and praise it the next, and you can feel when they do that both sentiments are 100% sincere. That, in my opinion, is a kind of balanced point of view after decades in a spiritual trip...*any* spiritual trip. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I was not being sarcastic. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Hmm, you aren't being sarcastic here? I think he is honest in one way, he is a traditionalist, snip There are apparently traditions where the teacher holds absolute power over the student, to the point that they must test and confirm each state that the student achieves, or strives to achieve. Can't comment more on that becuase such a thing is unappealing to me. Just have one thing to add, and that is that the sense of liberation, of enlightenment, of realization, is so unmistakable, that no outside confirmation is necessary. So I can appreciate the need for this type of very structured raising of consciousness right up until the instant of liberation, if someone is so inclined. After liberation though, especially for householders, it is completely unnecessary. What's the point? The difference in perception both inside and out, before and after liberation is so vast, so totally different, much more so than any drug we can take, than any other experience we may have, that it is truly like night and day, black and white, absolute. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are apparently traditions where the teacher holds absolute power over the student, to the point that they must test and confirm each state that the student achieves, or strives to achieve. Can't comment more on that becuase such a thing is unappealing to me. Me, too, if for no other reaosn it presumes that the teacher within that tradition is *able* to discern a particular student's spiritual progress, with regard to some useful standard. I have seen no evidence in any of my spiritual travels that convinces me this is true. Just have one thing to add, and that is that the sense of liberation, of enlightenment, of realization, is so unmistakable, that no outside confirmation is necessary. I agree. I think where a lot of people get hung up is when the experiencer tries to qualify where his or her experience was along some silly scale of spiritual experiences. Personally, I don't believe that the experiencer himself can do this, and I don't believe that any- one outside the experiencer (such as a teacher or a tradition) can do it, either. That pretty much leaves the experience itself, and whether it sounds as if it was a neat one or a not-so- neat one. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm pretty certain Vaj never said anything of the sort, nor did I. Although I now regret having done so, I once mentioned that I thought the level of conversation over here was much higher than on alt.m.t. That was true, until a bunch of alt.m.t.ers moved over. :-) I don't know why, but this just cracked me up. It's true. I wish I'd kept my big mouth shut. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My understanding is that Vaj was referring to satsang gatherings *in Fairfield*, the town--not to FFL, the Yahoo forum. I see. But does he live there, has he been to Satsangs there, He claims to have been to the satsangs there, over the past year, in fact. That's in the Guruphiliac post you referenced. Whether that means he lives in Fairfield or makes lots of trips to Fairfield to observe the satsangs, I have no idea. The Fairfield satsang group is connected to a phone bridge, and Vaj has the number. He's been asked if this is the group he's talking about, but he won't say. I was under the impression he was talking about some kind of forum [or other non-first-hand presence --hadn't thought of a phone brdige (?)] by the way he worded his original messages, but it didn't appear to be FFL he was talking about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much more interesting than any of this, though, was Jim Flanegin's response to the original post ... ... This is a thoughtful and potentially useful counterpoint to Vaj's analysis. [sequencing changed] Yes, but it reaises some points for discussion (not the same as arguments supporting entrenched POVs) --- Hi Vaj, and thanks for your comments and perspective on collective satsanging here on FFL (I am assuming this is the group you refer to and have been observing...). I can certainly see from one POV how a group of awakened individuals could appear to have some silent codependent agreement with one another, driven by ego satisfaction. And how from this same POV, there is no argument and little criticism within the group because this would fracture the codependent nature of it. On the other hand, from another POV, I can see the enjoyment of a group of awakened individuals sharing perspectives on a state of ultimate freedom. With no consequences to other observers, one way or another- no $$ requested, or follow up meetings advertised... Sure, both possibilities exist. I see Vaj's post as simply adding a new hypothesis to be considered along with the conventional POV. Like anything, if the shoe fits wear it. Because the same event is observed and experienced differently according to our consciousness, I cannot say that everyone should experience this group of awakened individuals in the same way. However, a couple of key points about this discussion: 1. determination of awakening, or not, of another is something sensed on a feeling level. Proclamations do no good, unless the person is walking the walk so to speak. Yes. And while I am only commenting on FFL, not all SS, IMO, the walk and talk have not always appear consistent. Such apparent inconsistencies are good, and fair grounds for questioning, IMO. Unfortunately it seems that the ones best able to see another's awakening are those who are awake themselves... And unforetunately, those stuck in groupthink and co-dependency cycles are usually not the ones to first or best recognize it. Outside observers can be helpful in point out some patterns. 2. the challenging of awakened states is helpful to a point. However to ceaselessly challenge, However, IMO, its a good thing regularly raise observations and questions about: unclear points, ramifications and implications of points raised, inconsistencies, paradoxes, contradictions,diversions, poor logic, and unsubstantied claims of fact. disagree Why should one agree with claims that appear shallow or contradictory, and/or interpretations that are sigualr and absolutist? and insult those who state that they are awakened can be harmful to observers of this dialogue. Insults are not productive -- except perhaps in the very special circumstnace when claims of universal love and compassion, as well as no ego, etc. are made. In that specialized case, limited insults --while perhaps not of the highest form of behavior, but widely deployed on FFL in many areas of discussion -- can be a form of inquiry: Does this person really have no ego. If so, what is manifestly (in their writing) feeling diminished when insults are cast? And if/when they cast insults, it raises issues of reciprocity, and the depth of thier universal love and compassion. It does no harm to the awakened person, for obvious reasons. Yet some react pretty vehemently against such. So it raises questions. But it is not a good thing in my opinion to in effect broadcast a message that awakening is not possible for the typical seeker, unless an endless and often nebulous set of conditions are met first. I am not aware of anyone doing that. If that is your take, I questions how seeing things exactly as they are your perception is as claimed. What I observe are statements that in a tradition -- say TM, MMY defines enlightenment as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these?. The same with other traditions. For example, in some tibetian traditions, enlightenement is defined as as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these? Perhaps someone has defined enlightenment in their own way, such as Rory. Such persons may not make any claims that it has much to do with TM or any other traditions' enlightenment. Thats fine, particularly as long as its explicitly stated. What I find of interest to question, is when claimants to enlightenment cannot or will not define what they personally mean by the term they are using, or whether what they are claiming is different from the TM or other traditions of enlightenment or awakening. Awakening is not something easily established. It takes much dedication, devotion, faith, strength, and discrimination for anyone who truly wants to reach that goal. And do you consider it possible that some
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2006/04/enlightenment- anonymous.html as he went to the gurutrashers camp http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/828 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 Not only does he cut short discussions here without proper reference, as this group is open for anyone to read, but also he plays the expert again. The reference to sidhis should not be missing, and groupleader Jody is already under the sway of another manifestor of holy ash, dispite his critics to about anyone in the spiritual field, including Ramana Maharshi, whom he discovered to be a Nazi. Writes Vaj: start= I wrote the comments based on experiences with an anonymous group of people who are all claiming to be enlightened. They are all former students of Mahesh Varma, aka Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Some of them make the wildest claims like we are living in the Unified Field- - which is interesting because none of these people can demonstrate a siddhi to prove that. They are without exception very averse to the idea of criteria or testing or recognition by their own teacher. They are their own judge and jury and witness (no pun intended :- ) ). It really only scratches the surface of what was going on--I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination. I should also add that most of them are also fans of Eckhart Tolle, Gangaji, Sailor Bob, etc. I like to call them Tolle-house cookies. So sweet, but bad for your spirit (causes your Ego to gain weight). ==end== Of course Vaj is just seeking a mutual agreement club himself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. And kind of a hottie for a mother of three. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm pretty certain Vaj never said anything of the sort, nor did I. Although I now regret having done so, I once mentioned that I thought the level of conversation over here was much higher than on alt.m.t. That was true, until a bunch of alt.m.t.ers moved over. :-) I don't know why, but this just cracked me up. It's true. I wish I'd kept my big mouth shut. Me, too. I now do not even open about 90% of the posts on FFL. People are indulging themselves in a public chat room with personal, detail laden crap that only 2 or 3 people care about. An occasional lapse is fine, but this is routine behavior. Get off the computer, folks, and do something with your time. Work, volunteer, exercise, see a shrink, make a friend, take a walk, take a class, relate face to face with another person, do some yoga postures and meditate (cause it sure sounds like none of these things has a place in your lives). What do you think Buddha, Guru Dev, the Dalai Lama, or Vyasa or MMY would say to a life lived in front of the computer, hours and hours and hours a day with nitpicky posts and without giving or helping another person in real life? Get medication if you can't change it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm pretty certain Vaj never said anything of the sort, nor did I. Although I now regret having done so, I once mentioned that I thought the level of conversation over here was much higher than on alt.m.t. That was true, until a bunch of alt.m.t.ers moved over. :-) I don't know why, but this just cracked me up. It's true. I wish I'd kept my big mouth shut. Me, too. I now do not even open about 90% of the posts on FFL. People are indulging themselves in a public chat room with personal, detail laden crap that only 2 or 3 people care about. An occasional lapse is fine, but this is routine behavior. Get off the computer, folks, and do something with your time. Work, volunteer, exercise, see a shrink, make a friend, take a walk, take a class, relate face to face with another person, do some yoga postures and meditate (cause it sure sounds like none of these things has a place in your lives). What do you think Buddha, Guru Dev, the Dalai Lama, or Vyasa or MMY would say to a life lived in front of the computer, hours and hours and hours a day with nitpicky posts and without giving or helping another person in real life? Get medication if you can't change it. Yeah, yeah...but what do you *really* think? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] What do you think Buddha, Guru Dev, the Dalai Lama, or Vyasa or MMY would say to a life lived in front of the computer, hours and hours and hours a day with nitpicky posts and without giving or helping another person in real life? Get medication if you can't change it. You're just jealous 'cause we can type so fast... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. And kind of a hottie for a mother of three. Your implicit definition of hottie reminds me Jack Ford's answer, when living in the White House, as to the type of women he most liked. Those with two arms and two legs. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
And yet you have enough time to read this vast wasteland (IYO) called FFL. Just think of all the seva you could do if you just quit wasting your time, got out from in front of the PC, and did something useful. What is this compulstion to keep doing something you abhor? :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me, too. I now do not even open about 90% of the posts on FFL. People are indulging themselves in a public chat room with personal, detail laden crap that only 2 or 3 people care about. An occasional lapse is fine, but this is routine behavior. Get off the computer, folks, and do something with your time. Work, volunteer, exercise, see a shrink, make a friend, take a walk, take a class, relate face to face with another person, do some yoga postures and meditate (cause it sure sounds like none of these things has a place in your lives). What do you think Buddha, Guru Dev, the Dalai Lama, or Vyasa or MMY would say to a life lived in front of the computer, hours and hours and hours a day with nitpicky posts and without giving or helping another person in real life? Get medication if you can't change it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] What do you think Buddha, Guru Dev, the Dalai Lama, or Vyasa or MMY would say to a life lived in front of the computer, hours and hours and hours a day with nitpicky posts and without giving or helping another person in real life? [snip] My advice to you is to start drinking heavily -- Senator John Blutarsky To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
I find I like champagne --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: [snip] What do you think Buddha, Guru Dev, the Dalai Lama, or Vyasa or MMY would say to a life lived in front of the computer, hours and hours and hours a day with nitpicky posts and without giving or helping another person in real life? [snip] My advice to you is to start drinking heavily -- Senator John Blutarsky To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find I like champagne Which ones? My advice to you is to start drinking heavily -- Senator John Blutarsky To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. And kind of a hottie for a mother of three. or, also a Father of three, the Trinity... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: I find I like champagne Which ones? The liquid kinds. My advice to you is to start drinking heavily -- Senator John Blutarsky To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
On Apr 27, 2006, at 12:12 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote: This is a thoughtful and potentially useful counterpoint to Vaj's analysis. [sequencing changed] Yes, but it reaises some points for discussion (not the same as arguments supporting entrenched POVs) --- Hi Vaj, and thanks for your comments and perspective on collective satsanging here on FFL (I am assuming this is the group you refer to and have been observing...). I can certainly see from one POV how a group of awakened individuals could appear to have some silent codependent agreement with one another, driven by ego satisfaction. And how from this same POV, there is no argument and little criticism within the group because this would fracture the codependent nature of it. On the other hand, from another POV, I can see the enjoyment of a group of awakened individuals sharing perspectives on a state of ultimate freedom. With no consequences to other observers, one way or another- no $$ requested, or follow up meetings advertised... Sure, both possibilities exist. I see Vaj's post as simply adding a new hypothesis to be considered along with the conventional POV. Like anything, if the shoe fits wear it. It's actually only one of several negative dynamics present in the satsang setting. There are others which I was hoping others might bring up on their own, but instead they have posted on other topics like the paranoia of being observed, who is it he's talking about, etc. Because the same event is observed and experienced differently according to our consciousness, I cannot say that everyone should experience this group of awakened individuals in the same way. However, a couple of key points about this discussion: 1. determination of awakening, or not, of another is something sensed on a feeling level. Proclamations do no good, unless the person is walking the walk so to speak. Yes. And while I am only commenting on FFL, not all SS, IMO, the walk and talk have not always appear consistent. Such apparent inconsistencies are good, and fair grounds for questioning, IMO. Yes precisely. However debate is often discouraged or not even allowed in such a setting. Unfortunately it seems that the ones best able to see another's awakening are those who are awake themselves... And unforetunately, those stuck in groupthink and co-dependency cycles are usually not the ones to first or best recognize it. Outside observers can be helpful in point out some patterns. Yes. 2. the challenging of awakened states is helpful to a point. However to ceaselessly challenge, However, IMO, its a good thing regularly raise observations and questions about: unclear points, ramifications and implications of points raised, inconsistencies, paradoxes, contradictions,diversions, poor logic, and unsubstantied claims of fact. Absolutely. disagree Why should one agree with claims that appear shallow or contradictory, and/or interpretations that are sigualr and absolutist? Good question, why would we? and insult those who state that they are awakened can be harmful to observers of this dialogue. Insults are not productive -- except perhaps in the very special circumstnace when claims of universal love and compassion, as well as no ego, etc. are made. In that specialized case, limited insults --while perhaps not of the highest form of behavior, but widely deployed on FFL in many areas of discussion -- can be a form of inquiry: Does this person really have no ego. If so, what is manifestly (in their writing) feeling diminished when insults are cast? And if/when they cast insults, it raises issues of reciprocity, and the depth of thier universal love and compassion. Yes precisely. Reminds me of the post the other day from Ramanashram on teachers being indifferent to praise or criticism as a common criteria for brahmavidya. It does no harm to the awakened person, for obvious reasons. Yet some react pretty vehemently against such. So it raises questions. Yes it has. But it is not a good thing in my opinion to in effect broadcast a message that awakening is not possible for the typical seeker, unless an endless and often nebulous set of conditions are met first. I am not aware of anyone doing that. If that is your take, I questions how seeing things exactly as they are your perception is as claimed. What I observe are statements that in a tradition -- say TM, MMY defines enlightenment as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these?. The same with other traditions. For example, in some tibetian traditions, enlightenement is defined as as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these? Another salient point IMO is the discrepancy between TMO models and traditional models. I might even be commented that TMO lowers the bar --of course the question is why??? Easier to sell?
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Much more interesting than any of this, though, was Jim Flanegin's response to the original post ... ... This is a thoughtful and potentially useful counterpoint to Vaj's analysis. [sequencing changed] Yes, but it reaises some points for discussion (not the same as arguments supporting entrenched POVs) --- Hi Vaj, and thanks for your comments and perspective on collective satsanging here on FFL (I am assuming this is the group you refer to and have been observing...). I can certainly see from one POV how a group of awakened individuals could appear to have some silent codependent agreement with one another, driven by ego satisfaction. And how from this same POV, there is no argument and little criticism within the group because this would fracture the codependent nature of it. On the other hand, from another POV, I can see the enjoyment of a group of awakened individuals sharing perspectives on a state of ultimate freedom. With no consequences to other observers, one way or another- no $$ requested, or follow up meetings advertised... Sure, both possibilities exist. I see Vaj's post as simply adding a new hypothesis to be considered along with the conventional POV. Like anything, if the shoe fits wear it. Because the same event is observed and experienced differently according to our consciousness, I cannot say that everyone should experience this group of awakened individuals in the same way. However, a couple of key points about this discussion: 1. determination of awakening, or not, of another is something sensed on a feeling level. Proclamations do no good, unless the person is walking the walk so to speak. Yes. And while I am only commenting on FFL, not all SS, IMO, the walk and talk have not always appear consistent. Such apparent inconsistencies are good, and fair grounds for questioning, IMO. Unfortunately it seems that the ones best able to see another's awakening are those who are awake themselves... And unforetunately, those stuck in groupthink and co-dependency cycles are usually not the ones to first or best recognize it. Outside observers can be helpful in point out some patterns. 2. the challenging of awakened states is helpful to a point. However to ceaselessly challenge, However, IMO, its a good thing regularly raise observations and questions about: unclear points, ramifications and implications of points raised, inconsistencies, paradoxes, contradictions,diversions, poor logic, and unsubstantied claims of fact. disagree Why should one agree with claims that appear shallow or contradictory, and/or interpretations that are sigualr and absolutist? and insult those who state that they are awakened can be harmful to observers of this dialogue. Insults are not productive -- except perhaps in the very special circumstnace when claims of universal love and compassion, as well as no ego, etc. are made. In that specialized case, limited insults --while perhaps not of the highest form of behavior, but widely deployed on FFL in many areas of discussion -- can be a form of inquiry: Does this person really have no ego. If so, what is manifestly (in their writing) feeling diminished when insults are cast? And if/when they cast insults, it raises issues of reciprocity, and the depth of thier universal love and compassion. It does no harm to the awakened person, for obvious reasons. Yet some react pretty vehemently against such. So it raises questions. But it is not a good thing in my opinion to in effect broadcast a message that awakening is not possible for the typical seeker, unless an endless and often nebulous set of conditions are met first. I am not aware of anyone doing that. If that is your take, I questions how seeing things exactly as they are your perception is as claimed. What I observe are statements that in a tradition -- say TM, MMY defines enlightenment as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these?. The same with other traditions. For example, in some tibetian traditions, enlightenement is defined as as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these? Perhaps someone has defined enlightenment in their own way, such as Rory. Such persons may not make any claims that it has much to do with TM or any other traditions' enlightenment. Thats fine, particularly as long as its explicitly stated. What I find of interest to question, is when claimants to enlightenment cannot or will not define what they personally mean by the term they are using, or whether what they are claiming is different from the TM or other traditions of enlightenment or awakening. Awakening
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 12:12 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote: Jim: As we work on one area and the next, creating gradually and permanenently our awakened selves, the awakened selves are composed of polished parts? The Awakened Self was once not awake? If this really is your view, we fundamentally differ in a most high regard. Lost me here. Though I think I get what jim is getting at, it struck me as odd/funny that work on one area and the next aka polishing parts, creates wholeness. And while it may simply be semantical, creating gradually ... our awakened selves implies the Self was once asleep. It wasn't. Something else was asleep. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I appreciate your comments and questions, but I find myself unable to respond to each of them, just as an artist would find it difficult to justify or explain each brushstroke, or a poet each line of a poem. What I expressed was the exposition of a single thought and feeling, in a very specific context. The singularity expressed transcends its elements. I have read through my posting here, and wouldn't make any changes to it. So I am left with the impression that you question or disagree with some of it. I am not copping out, or finding your comments not worth a response, so please don't misunderstand me. I just don't know what else to say to you to clarify or justify further what I have written. I am not arguing, or necessariliy disagreeing with most of what you said, but rather raising some additional points. Its true, two different people can arrive at two different interpretations of the same event -- in this case, a satsang. My broader point is that, as above, experiences also have multiple possible valid interpretations. What I find odd -- not referring to you post specifically -- in some discusssions some posters react quite negatively to suggestions that alterntive interpretations of experiences might be valid -- or at least of use to explore. (Just as multiple interpreations are possible as to what happens in satsangs generally. In which case, across many satsangs, I would expect both models sometimes fit.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And why do TMer descriptions of CC, GC or UC seldom venture beyond what they've been told? Was this meant to be a built-in test in and of itself? snip Although I've never heard officially, yeah, I think the definitions of CC, GC and UC have been misintepreted in one fundamental way, and that is that there is a clean cut progression from established CC, then to established GC and then to established UC. And that each of them constitute an enlightened state in and of themselves. And this gets back to the thing Mahesh said about the teacher speaking from his POV or state of consciousness (would that be SOC??), and his teachings being interpreted by the students' consciousness... There is a super-state which encompasses all of the CC, GC and UC, which some refer to Brahman, but which I'll call Tiddly-Winks, and this Tiddly-Winks is the fulfillment of CC, GC, and UC, none of which are an end state, but contain a fundamental and necessary component of Tiddly-Winks. So the seeker can make the mistake of attempting to sustain and make permanent the states of CC, silence and activity experienced together, GC, seeing the finest relative phenomenon as a result of sense refinement, and UC, unity vs relativity predominating the view, when in fact the fulfillment of each comes about only when we achieve Tiddly-Winks. So looking backwards in a sense, having already achieved Tiddly- Winks, a Seer may cognize the relative steps, the foundational accomplishments, those of CC, GC, and UC, that the seeker must necessarily attain in order to sustain the state of Tiddly-Winks. The seeker instead hears these, and having gained a glimpse of one or many of the hallmarks of each of these states, may mistake the relative achievement of CC or GC or UC as the goal, instead of the proper action of not taking such experiences too seriously and instead remaning focused on the true goal of Tiddly-Winks. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Lost me here. Though I think I get what jim is getting at, it struck me as odd/funny that work on one area and the next aka polishing parts, creates wholeness. Yeah, it is funny when seen that way, as if we are consciously and meticulously assembling a model of ourselves. While such an image may have meaning from a psychological perspective, i.e. building character, I like the image of the seeker attempting to find his way by looking through the wrong end of a foggy telescope. To grow towards the eventual marriage between the Self and the self necessitates that our intimacy with the Self must grow, which in turn extinguishes the small self within us. A delicate dance to be sure, and one that turns on not just pure discrimination, but the feeling level as well. And while it may simply be semantical, creating gradually ... our awakened selves implies the Self was once asleep. It wasn't. Something else was asleep. Ed Zackerly. What I was writing about was not what the Reality is, that of the Self being ever and magnificently awake, but rather our experience that integration with the Self takes place gradually, over time, and within space. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Hi, I appreciate your comments and questions, but I find myself unable to respond to each of them, just as an artist would find it difficult to justify or explain each brushstroke, or a poet each line of a poem. What I expressed was the exposition of a single thought and feeling, in a very specific context. The singularity expressed transcends its elements. I have read through my posting here, and wouldn't make any changes to it. So I am left with the impression that you question or disagree with some of it. I am not copping out, or finding your comments not worth a response, so please don't misunderstand me. I just don't know what else to say to you to clarify or justify further what I have written. I am not arguing, or necessariliy disagreeing with most of what you said, but rather raising some additional points. Its true, two different people can arrive at two different interpretations of the same event -- in this case, a satsang. Cool! My broader point is that, as above, experiences also have multiple possible valid interpretations. What I find odd -- not referring to you post specifically -- in some discusssions some posters react quite negatively to suggestions that alterntive interpretations of experiences might be valid -- or at least of use to explore. (Just as multiple interpreations are possible as to what happens in satsangs generally. In which case, across many satsangs, I would expect both models sometimes fit.) Yep. Just speaking for myself (after all, that is all I can speak for...) I respond to posts as accurately and honestly as possible, which I have seen you do as well. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: I find I like champagne Which ones? The liquid kinds. Ha-Ha! The reason I asked is I too find champagne sublime. I like Korbel Brut (California) as a really good one; affordable (under $10), clean, fresh and fruity. And then there's Veuve Cliquot Ponsardin (orange label, French) as a real treat; 30 bucks a bottle but worth it once in a blue moon, creamy and delicious. Many, many others- definitely got into it a few years back... My advice to you is to start drinking heavily -- Senator John Blutarsky To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The seeker instead hears these, and having gained a glimpse of one or many of the hallmarks of each of these states, may mistake the relative achievement of CC or GC or UC as the goal, instead of the proper action of not taking such experiences too seriously and instead remaning focused on the true goal of Tiddly-Winks. I've always understood them as experiential benchmarks, not as end points. MMY's been pretty clear, in my understanding, at least, that none of these were the ultimate goal but rather stages along the way. And I can't recall any other TMers speaking of these as if they were ultimate goals. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip The seeker instead hears these, and having gained a glimpse of one or many of the hallmarks of each of these states, may mistake the relative achievement of CC or GC or UC as the goal, instead of the proper action of not taking such experiences too seriously and instead remaning focused on the true goal of Tiddly-Winks. I've always understood them as experiential benchmarks, not as end points. MMY's been pretty clear, in my understanding, at least, that none of these were the ultimate goal but rather stages along the way. And I can't recall any other TMers speaking of these as if they were ultimate goals. I am curious if you thought of them as established states, in other words, once we attained GC, it was permanent, until our growing into UC, or was it more like, OK, I've had some GC experiences, but now it has faded away and I am myself again, seeking Tiddly-Winks? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find I like champagne So did the Nazis in WWII. It sure worked out for them. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: I find I like champagne So did the Nazis in WWII. It sure worked out for them. :-) Have you come across any alcohol drinking adult who *doesn't* like it? I haven't... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then there's Veuve Cliquot Ponsardin (orange label, French) as a real treat; 30 bucks a bottle but worth it once in a blue moon... And not any cheaper here in France. One can find *remarkable*, to-die-for bargains in the world of wines, but champagne is a reality of its own. Nary a bargain to be found. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip The seeker instead hears these, and having gained a glimpse of one or many of the hallmarks of each of these states, may mistake the relative achievement of CC or GC or UC as the goal, instead of the proper action of not taking such experiences too seriously and instead remaning focused on the true goal of Tiddly-Winks. I've always understood them as experiential benchmarks, not as end points. MMY's been pretty clear, in my understanding, at least, that none of these were the ultimate goal but rather stages along the way. And I can't recall any other TMers speaking of these as if they were ultimate goals. I am curious if you thought of them as established states, in other words, once we attained GC, it was permanent, until our growing into UC, or was it more like, OK, I've had some GC experiences, but now it has faded away and I am myself again, seeking Tiddly-Winks? It seems to me that the terms describe both (a) types of experience and (b) permanent states, and it's the context that determines which is meant. In the second sense, the *definition*, in MMY's lingo, is that this type of experience has become permanent, i.e., it doesn't fade away, although it can develop further to the next level, and ultimately they all fade away in Tiddly-Winks. With CC-type experience, we use two different terms for the temporary vs. permanent experience: witnessing for the temporary experience, CC for the permanent, 24/7 experience. Maybe if we had similar dual terms for the other two there wouldn't be so much confusion. Obviously people do have experiences of the states that are temporary (and they don't necessarily come in strict sequence). Also, they aren't distinct states so much as a continuum of developing experience on which MMY has placed markers at certain (arbitrary?) points, mainly as a convenient means of discussing how experience develops. But this is a linear model, so it can't possibly accurately represent what really goes on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: snip And why do TMer descriptions of CC, GC or UC seldom venture beyond what they've been told? Was this meant to be a built-in test in and of itself? snip Although I've never heard officially, yeah, I think the definitions of CC, GC and UC have been misintepreted in one fundamental way, and that is that there is a clean cut progression from established CC, then to established GC and then to established UC. And that each of them constitute an enlightened state in and of themselves. And this gets back to the thing Mahesh said about the teacher speaking from his POV or state of consciousness (would that be SOC??), and his teachings being interpreted by the students' consciousness... There is a super-state which encompasses all of the CC, GC and UC, which some refer to Brahman, but which I'll call Tiddly-Winks, and this Tiddly-Winks is the fulfillment of CC, GC, and UC, none of which are an end state, but contain a fundamental and necessary component of Tiddly-Winks. So the seeker can make the mistake of attempting to sustain and make permanent the states of CC, silence and activity experienced together, GC, seeing the finest relative phenomenon as a result of sense refinement, and UC, unity vs relativity predominating the view, when in fact the fulfillment of each comes about only when we achieve Tiddly-Winks. So looking backwards in a sense, having already achieved Tiddly- Winks, a Seer may cognize the relative steps, the foundational accomplishments, those of CC, GC, and UC, that the seeker must necessarily attain in order to sustain the state of Tiddly-Winks. The seeker instead hears these, and having gained a glimpse of one or many of the hallmarks of each of these states, may mistake the relative achievement of CC or GC or UC as the goal, instead of the proper action of not taking such experiences too seriously and instead remaning focused on the true goal of Tiddly-Winks. Tiddly-winks isn't an end-state either, you know. Always room more... tiddlies? winks? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you don't really feel like coddling pissants. :-) Seeing others as pissants and snakes. A clear sign of seeing the Self in all things. What remarkable spiritual achievements these individuals have obtained. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. Four, if you count me, the bastard son! p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. Four, if you count me, the bastard son! p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. It's an insult to say someone is a mother of three?? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: you don't really feel like coddling pissants. :-) Seeing others as pissants and snakes. A clear sign of seeing the Self in all things. What remarkable spiritual achievements these individuals have obtained. What's even more remarkable is the hours upon hours he spends dialoguing with these pissants. And even moe remarkable than that is his utterance a few days ago that he wasn't long for this forum...seems he still hasn't left... Gee, I remember the hard time he gave Judy Stein a few years back on a.m.t. when she promised not to come back and she did. Now, he's made pretty much the same promise... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. Four, if you count me, the bastard son! p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. It's an insult to say someone is a mother of three?? Peter can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he was referring to the posting BEFORE me...the one I was commenting on (trace it back through the up thread button). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. Four, if you count me, the bastard son! Greetings! Glad to see you! p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. It's an insult to say someone is a mother of three?? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: you don't really feel like coddling pissants. :-) Seeing others as pissants and snakes. A clear sign of seeing the Self in all things. What remarkable spiritual achievements these individuals have obtained. LOL! Bullseye, anon_astute To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. I am glad you feel full of love today Peter. A clear sign of your remarkable sprititual achievements. I love it too when individuals hide behind their highly esteemed individual identities -- a clear sign of how polished and cherised these individualities have become to them. And I love how you see the Oneness of all things, seeing all Anons as One and stereotyping their collective traits. It makes prejudging posts that much easier -- not having to waste time actually evaluating each post. So I guess the lesson is, that its all good when its all seen in love. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What's even more remarkable is the hours upon hours he spends dialoguing with these pissants. And even moe remarkable than that is his utterance a few days ago that he wasn't long for this forum...seems he still hasn't left... Gee, I remember the hard time he gave Judy Stein a few years back on a.m.t. when she promised not to come back and she did. Of course, as Shemp knows, I never promised not to come back. But Barry has promised to leave forums, or ignore me or other people who see through him, literally scores of times. Never lasts. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. Four, if you count me, the bastard son! p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. It's an insult to say someone is a mother of three?? Peter can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he was referring to the posting BEFORE me...the one I was commenting on (trace it back through the up thread button). Mebbe soI thought he was including you because you don't use your real name. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. I am glad you feel full of love today Peter. A clear sign of your remarkable sprititual achievements. I love it too when individuals hide behind their highly esteemed individual identities -- a clear sign of how polished and cherised these individualities have become to them. And I love how you see the Oneness of all things, seeing all Anons as One and stereotyping their collective traits. It makes prejudging posts that much easier -- not having to waste time actually evaluating each post. So I guess the lesson is, that its all good when its all seen in love. 'Peter' is gone...Bye Bye...love remains... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: snip And why do TMer descriptions of CC, GC or UC seldom venture beyond what they've been told? Was this meant to be a built-in test in and of itself? snip Although I've never heard officially, yeah, I think the definitions of CC, GC and UC have been misintepreted in one fundamental way, and that is that there is a clean cut progression from established CC, then to established GC and then to established UC. And that each of them constitute an enlightened state in and of themselves. And this gets back to the thing Mahesh said about the teacher speaking from his POV or state of consciousness (would that be SOC??), and his teachings being interpreted by the students' consciousness... There is a super-state which encompasses all of the CC, GC and UC, which some refer to Brahman, but which I'll call Tiddly-Winks, and this Tiddly-Winks is the fulfillment of CC, GC, and UC, none of which are an end state, but contain a fundamental and necessary component of Tiddly-Winks. So the seeker can make the mistake of attempting to sustain and make permanent the states of CC, silence and activity experienced together, GC, seeing the finest relative phenomenon as a result of sense refinement, and UC, unity vs relativity predominating the view, when in fact the fulfillment of each comes about only when we achieve Tiddly-Winks. So looking backwards in a sense, having already achieved Tiddly- Winks, a Seer may cognize the relative steps, the foundational accomplishments, those of CC, GC, and UC, that the seeker must necessarily attain in order to sustain the state of Tiddly- Winks. The seeker instead hears these, and having gained a glimpse of one or many of the hallmarks of each of these states, may mistake the relative achievement of CC or GC or UC as the goal, instead of the proper action of not taking such experiences too seriously and instead remaning focused on the true goal of Tiddly-Winks. Tiddly-winks isn't an end-state either, you know. Always room more... tiddlies? winks? Yes, the game of Tiddly-Winks goes on, and on, and on... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Tiddly-winks isn't an end-state either, you know. Always room more... tiddlies? winks? Yes, the game of Tiddly-Winks goes on, and on, and on... Tiddlywinks FAQ: http://www.cheng.cam.ac.uk/~pjb10/winks/FAQ.html Hosted by the North American Tiddlywinks Association. This is serious stuff, folks. An excerpt from the Lexicon of Tiddlywinks: pile · n a set of two or more winks, some squopped and ordinarily one or more free, in which each wink is either squopping another wink in the group, and/or is squopped by another wink in the group pile flip · a shot which results in a wink from within a pile or underneath a squop ending up on top pile-jump (UK) = gromp (Winking World 50, page 13) PINTS · n Pinner Tiddlywinks Society (UK) pip · n a notional measure of benefit resulting from a shot [1980s+] pivot n the movement of a wink around a point of contact with another wink Plan 47 · n potting a partnership's remaining free winks when many of its winks are squopped in a large pile, with the hope that the opponents will be forced to free a wink from that pile plexy (US) · n a squidger made of Plexiglas point · n either a time-limit point (now called tiddlies) or a game point point transfer · n the transfer of one game point to the winning pair in a game which ends in a potout poke (US) · n the application of a squidger to a wink or pile with a quick, short stroke that is intended to result in moving a single wink a short distance to result in a desired objective. Port Stanley (UK) = n bomb (Devlin, 1985) positional game · n a game which is marked by many small adjustments to the positions of winks on the mat. In Britain, chiefly associated with Nick Inglis--hence sometimes an Inglis game. In the USA in the 1970s, associated with Bill Renke and Ross Callon. poss · n (UK) to send a wink no more than a quarter of the distance intended, especially if the shot was an easy one [Named after Poss Ellis, OUTS winker, January 1993 during the Cambridge Open; Newswink 28, page 10] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
